Theos-Talk Archives (May 1998 Message tt00360)

May 20th 1998

Dallas offers:

Dear Pam:

Your observations are valuable.  In my reading, there are at
present some "hang-ups" around, that do not (to me) make sense.

The attempt to "date" HPB's writings with the stigma (?) of the
time in which they were written "Victorian," etc ...  Why not
take them on face value ?  The moral condition of the world and
its philosophical evolution are to be considered on the basis of
what is being offered -- in terms of verity, or accuracy of
description.  The "age" of the language, and the slight change in
colloquial expression in 100 years has very little to do with
those concepts.
It is true that the "world" seems to have adopted some changed
values.  that is superficially, if one believes the press and the
other media.  However, at heart, is there any change ?  Is truth
supplanted by lie ?  Is honesty not approved of ?  Is mutual
assistance no longer approved of ?  Do the virtues cease to exist
because men in public office no longer observe them ?  What
confidence can we continue to place in those who cheat ?  etc.,
etc.,  Have our moral perceptions become so blunted ?

The English of the classical period when Shakespeare, Tennyson,
Milton, Addison, Carlyle, Ruskin, etc., etc.,  wrote has not been
bettered in clarity or style by the more modern writers, surely
this can be seen !

Have you yet met a modern philosopher or psychologist who has put
HPB to shame ?  But, do you know what HPB has said and written ?
Have your studies of theosophy deepened your own perceptions ?
We have to "take stock" now and then.  What are our standards ?

Our present days of visual clutter and mind intoxication (TV) has
not led to many great advances -- only distraction of the
uncaring many, and the non-investigators, who expect to be hand
fed with reliable "truth," and with no effort on their part.
And, consequently, how often do we read that they are led by the
figurative nose wherever clever publicists desire!

"Authority" is another trap.  Why presume anyone knows more than
you can by devising your own methods of study and investigation ?
This is specially important in Theosophy where we are dealing
with ancient truths and need to verify them ourselves.  Common
sense is our best tool.  that, and verification of SOURCES.  And
that, again, means study and thinking for one's self.

Membership in any society or association gives, at best, a chance
to discuss one's thoughts and conclusions with others who are
presumed to be working along the same lines.  Theosophy cannot be
bought.  It is not for sale,  Nor does it come through any one
source.  It is free.  There is a price to pay, and that is study
for one's self.  There are no politics implied in Theosophy, nor
is there a "party line."  No one owns Theosophy.  It is the
Wisdom of the Ages, and therefore it belongs to all who seek for
it.  It was entrusted to the Theosophical society.  Is that
Society still following humbly the lines  that were laid  down.
Is it actually working, or is it talking -- and, is that talk
valuable ?

You ask pertinent questions.  I would advise you consult the KEY
TO THEOSOPHY and see whether or not HPB has put there answers to
most of them, or provided the basis from which you can make your
own answers.

There is work to be done by all of us:

1.  Study, so we know what Theosophy is,

 2.  Promulgation, so that others may benefit from the source we
have found.

3.  Accuracy, and self-effacement.  Let the Teachings stand out,
they deserve it, and they are their own best proof of value.

4.    Assistance that is without any strings.  This is due by
each of us to anyone who asks.  In a universe that is based on
spirit and the immortality of the Essential human spirit/soul,
everyone is brother to everyone else, and there ought to be no
private meanings, or "official" secrets.

5.    The value of any association, society, group, what-not is
how much real assistance and clarity of thought is offered.  How
does it tally with our thinking?  Are doors being opened ?  Is
Brotherhood being practiced ?  How are we helping others ?  There
are thousands of ways of service.  But the most important are in
our closest environment.  What can we do for others just around
us?  Where can we get reliable help, that gives us our own
freedom to accept or reject suggestions ?  etc., etc.,

To some the ideal of the Masters resonates with a strong
vibration of memory, perhaps in past lives we had opportunity to
approach Theosophy (then in a different context, but still the
same ideas).  In some,  the writings of HPB appeal.  to others it
is Mr. Judge's writings -- but in all cases it is Theosophy that
is working to reawaken our soul-memories.  In fact it is the
strong urge of the Spirit/Soul within each of us, that directs
the embodied man-mind to seek for Truth, and for purpose.  And
for that companionship of mutual assistance where these ideas are
being considered and used.

If there is more information or questions that deserve answering,
do not hesitate to ask.  all of us have good ideas to offer.
Dallas.

> Date: Tuesday, May 19, 1998 8:29 PM
> From: "Pam Giese" <pgiese@snd.softfarm.com>
> Subject: Re: Theosophical Doctrines (HPB)

>> From: "Dallas TenBroeck" <dalval@nwc.net>
>---------<<<snip>>-
>> What does it matter ?  HPB was initiated and there is a Grand
>> Lodge that has survived the aeons since "Man was Man."  And
>> through Theosophy we have an opportunity of making a closer
>> contact with the wisdom that the Brothers preserve.  Are we
going
>> to waste time on the details of temporality when we have a
grand
>> philosophy to work with and use ?  Are we seriously working
with
>> that philosophy to prove or not prove to ourselves its value ?
>
>I am glad to see this paragraph.  I think it sums up some of the
other
>on-going threads.  And it implicitly asks the next
question:"Where do we go
>from here?".
>
>Has Dallas stated the starting point of concession?:  That in
addition to
>the Three Objects, the statements of
> 1.  HPB was initiated and there is a Grand Lodge that has
survived the
>aeons since "Man was Man."
> 2.  And that through Theosophy we have an opportunity of making
a closer
>contact with the wisdom that the Brothers preserve
>
>can be a starting point for work.
>
>Are these points where we all agree?  Can we start addressing
real issues
>that deal with " a grand philosophy to work with and use"? Are
we prepared
>and willing to go that path?  I would think this would mean
dealing with
>empirical knowledge outside the security of acknowledged adepts.
I would
>also think this would mean taking a real cross-cultural approach
to
>interperating this knowledge and experience.
>
>Maybe I'm off-base here. Please correct me if I'm wrong.   I've
only been
>on the list a few months and officially with the TSA a little
over a year.
>Maybe the whole thrust is just an exercise in the archeology of
Victorian
>occultism.
>
> As I've been staring at my TSA renewal notice, I've been asking
myself if
>the TS is still a vital organization where new thought and the
energy is
>being pumped through its veins.  I'm not sure.  Do the Masters
talk to
>through the TS more than to Bill Gates or members on this list?
I don't
>know.  Some on this list believe that the modern legacy of HPB
lies with
>ECP and the I AM movement, I don't.  What I do believe is that
we have
>established multi-dimensional connections via this list and have
an
>opportunity to use the agreed upon philosophy of HPB for some
real work.
>What is this real work?  Is it service?  Investigation?  Let's
open for
>ideas.
>
>Libidia and Alan had some banter about doing coffee 15,000 years
ago.
>(Okay, maybe I'm clueless and you two have recent history
together, but..)
>I do believe that we all have had some connection before,
whether is was
>coffee with Libidia or trailing after Avicenna as he fled
princedom to
>princedom, we have shared history.  Can we use this knowledge?
Can we
>except the philosophy we know to be true without trying to force
it through
>the screens of the antiquated "objective science"
>we were taught as children?
>
>
>..just a few thoughts..
>
>
>>
>> Pam
>pgiese@snd.softfarm.com
>
>"Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light..."