Theos-Talk Archives (May 1998 Message tt00048)

> From: "Dallas TenBroeck" <dalval@nwc.net>
> Date: Tuesday, April 28, 1998 12:55 AM
> Subject: Re: Coherence

>April 27th 1998
>
>Dear Ringding:
>
>May I attach some comments to what you write ?


Dear Dallas,
I thank you for your many good comments to my comments about
Paul's theory. Good to hear that you could agree with me in all
points except the following one (I don't reply to your claim that
GdeP was superficial  as this is for now of minor importance
and I believe with his surviving personal pupils that the time is
yet to come for the theos. public to recognize him in the right
way and we today still have the bad situation that the most
theosophists of today not even are aware who HPB was). Following
my comment to Paul and your reply conc. the ES of New York:

>..................................SNIP


>>Wrong. The doctrines as a whole where taught by her from
>>the first time of her arrival in New York in the ES.
>>Judge certifies i.e. that he was been taught about
>>reincarnation in 1874. Judge continued to teach the
>>esoteric doctrines when HPB installed him as leader of the
>>E.S. in 1879, when she and Olcott were leaving for India.
>>
>===================================================
>.................................SNIP
>
>        Dallas writes:
>
>The last part of this statement is inaccurate.  Judge was
>apparently initiated in 1874 as in 1888 HPB gives him the
>certificate (dated Dec. 14, 1888, in the 14th year of the T S )
>that you mention and states that he had been a "chela" for 13
>years.  She put him in charge, as he5r "agent" of the E S
>section in America.
>Apparently, Olcott was offered the same "positin" for Asia and
>India, but was not interested.  After HPB's death when the E S
>was "reorganized," this offer was renewed to him, but he was
>stilll uniterested.  In the book LETTERS FROM THE MASTERS OF
>WISDOM,   Vol. 1, (1918 original edition, TPH, Adyar) starting
>on p. 50 is an important letter from the Master sent to Olcott
>on board of the S.S.Shannon which was still at sea.  The date of
>receipt was August 22, 1888.  It made it amply clear to him that
>their relations with HPB had not changed, and that she was
>responsible to Them for the conduct of the Theosophical Movement
>as they deisred it to be.  [Portions of this letter were printed
>in LUCIFER for October 1888, Vol. 3, p. 145-7 -- it has also
>been reprinted elsewhere.]
>
>In 1879 when HPB and Olcott left for India from New York, they
>went as a "Delegation" of the TS, a "Committee."  The intention
>for the T S (which had been originated in New York in late 1875,
>and inaugurated Nov. 17th;  and which remained there, in charge
>of Genl. Abner Doubleday as President pro tem, and Mr. W.Q.Judge
>who acted as Secretary) was to join forces with Dayand Saraswati
>and the ARYA SAMAJ  (Society of the Nobles) which Dayanand has
>originated in India to purify Brahmanism and Hinduism among the
>masses and the classes there.
>
>The story of the failure of this Arya Samaj mission is found
>narrated in the first three volumes of THEOSOPHIST.  Dayanand
>turned authoritarian and dictatorial which is the opposite of
>the practice of true Theosophy.  Hence it became necessary for
>the TS as represented by Olcott and HPB to work separately and
>to spread the ideas and mission of the T S as quickly as
>possible in India, Ceylon, Burma, etc...and in this they were highly
>successful as a history of the Theos. Movement shows.
>Originally, and for some years the T S patterned its policies,
>entrance, meetings, etc. after some of the Masonic methods.
>One had to be a member in good standing to attend meetings,
>etc...
>That was changed later on and the meetings were increasingly
>opened to the public at large, and the original rituals and
>secrecy were dropped.
>It was not until 1887/8 that a demand for a closer practice of
>Theosophy forced the origination of the E S -- again a matter of
>history.  The demand originated in the USA.  In PRACTICAL
>OCCULTISM  (Letter from W.Q.Judge, dated May 18, (1887)
>published by Theos. University Press, Pasadena in 1981 -- pp.
>85-6) will be found a copy of the original suggestion.  In London (and
>elsewhere, scattered students here and there across the world),
>and some who had banded together in what what called then, the
>"Inner Group," had expressed their desire to HPB for a more
>intimate study of practial Theosophy, and, if found worthy,
>access to some deeper aspects of the esoteric wisdom of the
>Adepts, and perhaps, they hoped that they might become Their
>pupils.
>
>Dal.
________________________________________________________

Dear Dallas, I am sorry, but I remain to my above statement that
Judge was made to head of the E.S. HQ in New York in 1879 by HPB
when she was leaving for India. I have not all available primary
sources just at hands but I remember to this sources which you
please might consult:

1. Judge says the E.S. was founded in 1875 (Practical Occultism,
from the private letters of WQJ, TUP, p. 299, also in WQJ
Complete works: Echoes of the Orient, II/393).

2. That E.S. consisted of 7-8 members (Pract. Occ., p. 299)

3. This E.S. meeting's minutes were obviously signed by WQJ since
1879. Instance given in Theosophical History April 1995, p. 204
by Michael Gomes where he mentions such a minute from Sept., 7,
1887.

4. Order from HPB from Sept. 27, 1887, with her NB "By order of
the Secret Council" (in Theos., History, April 1995, p. 207)

5. On E.S. meeting in March 29, 1896, the leaders of the E.S.
unanimously endorsed Katherine Tingley as Judge's successor
(Greenwalt, Point Loma Pubc., p. 17) and related to her School of
Antiquity (ibed., p. 92). KT worked as O.H. of the E.S. at the
latest in 1893 (ibed., p. 73)

6. KT refers directly to that E.S. founded by HPB and WQJ in 1875
in NY when she explains: "The real Headquarters of the Society
has always been in New York, where the Society was founded...
(ibed., p. 30)."

Could it be other way? One should understand that the
evolutionary development comes from within.
Use the theosophical key of analogy and you have it!
The founding of the T.S. emanated from the E.S., not otherwise.
A serious and stern reexamination of our primary sources is
needful to understand the thee true story of the T.S.,
her aim and her tasks.
HPB named the E.S. always as the "real heart of the T.S."

-Peace

Frank