Theos-Talk Archives (May 1998 Message tt00002)

Dallas,
Please understand me. I get a real kick out of your posts and I'm very
curious to know you better.

> Dallas wrote.
> In my own esteem I really know very little.  I therefore use the
> statements made by others who seem to have better learning than I
> have to illustrate what seems, to me, to be a reasonable view.

Very nice, but still patently safe and kind of noncommittal. Sitting on
the fence reading Blavatsky is still just sitting on the fence.

> I also offer sources, quotations, what-not, so that those who
> read what I offer can go to those sources and see whether there
> is to be found there that which I thought was valuable.

Your services as research librarian have always been welcomed and
appreciated.

> And that is all that I do.  Well, not quite, as I do a lot of
> thinking about what I do read, and try to gather scattered
> statements made, together, so that from such a mosaic a more
> definite pattern (which, it should be agreed, is the way in
> which my mind arranges them) -- but as I may not be entirely
> confident of my own accuracy of deduction, I present them freely
> so that others can cross check them.

You can be wrong in your deductions, but please don't let that stop you.
That's the inevitable result of taking a stand. Just let us know where
you are. Please be encouraged to venture your personal point of view. It
is your opinion that I am interested in.

> It is my firm opinion that knowledge and wisdom is common
> property, and that we grow by working with each other, sharing
> what we think we have found, and so if we offer our findings, we
> may help others, and in reciprocity, they can correct or enhance
> what we have offered.  How were the Pyramids built?  By the
> labor of many thousands of devoted people. Not by slaves!

I'm not so sure about that. I think there were probabaly a lot of slaves
involved. Generations of slaves. Truth is, nobody knows for sure.

> As to personal experiences -- well, if we are all immortals, we
> have probably extended our quotas in the past, had some successes
> (or we would not be here, anxious to learn and to progress) and
> some "failures" -- which is why we are not a lot further along.
> And so on and so forth.

So what? does that mean we shouldn't have the courage of our
convictions?

> As to those of this life, if I have had
> any then I would be most reticent, as they mean something to me,
> and very little to any others.

I would challenge you to test that assumption.

> There is a problem to be
> overcome.  It there are  (generally speaking ) three main planes
> of human observation, and our passage from 1 to 3 and back again
> to 1, is always through 2,  I mean:
>
> 1.The Physical where we are awake and conscious just now,
>
> 2.The Psychic -- of which dream and trance experience are
> samples [Actually the physical input of a vibrational
> nature is translated into electro-magnetic impulses and through the nerves
> the Brain centers are affected.  The Real Man, the Inner Observer
> sees and watches the Brain-screen and recording, responds from
> experience, memory and active decision to those impulses -- the output
> being volition, choice, actions, words, thoughts, feelings and our
> "deeds" are based on these many combinations.  And so the brain is
> told what to do and the nerve impulses from down from It to produce our
> words, thoughts, feelings and "deeds" on this, the physical
> plane. ]
>
> 3.The Spiritual -- of which our observation may be distorted
> {allow me to re-quote again a valuable source
> for understanding this: HPB TRANSACTIONS OF THE BLAVATSKY LODGE  pp.
> 66-76.}
>
> With these as a basis we ought to be able to do almost anything,
> for a grasp of their potential opens all the "worlds" to our
> eyes. -- But it takes time and effort.

Sorry, Buster. You lost me.

> >Dallas,
> >You apparently are locked in a continuous cycle of reading and thinking
> >about book knowledge that you could conceivably continue to spin in for
> >years and years. Maybe, that really does it for you, maybe it doesn't,
> >(it seems like it does). I won't fault you for it, if you're getting
> >what you need from it. So be it.
> >
> >But if you had the opportunity to experience spirituality directly or
> >read a book about someone else who had apparently done so, what would
> >you choose to do?
> >==================================================
>
> FIRST I WOULD READ -- THEN INVESTIGATE - BUT NOT PLUNGE INTO
> ANYTHING THAT I CANNOT PREVIEW.  I AM NOT A "RISK-TAKER."
> ==================================================

There was a survey done a few years ago where a great number of adults
were asked what they most regretted about their lives and the
overwhelming majority answered, "I wish I had taken more risks."

> >What good is all of this if, from time to time, you don't try to fall
> >back on your own attainment and understanding? It's almost like you
> >esteem Blavatsky and the Masters more than you do the Divine spark
> >within you, always quoting chapter and verse. I suspect that you
> >are not alone.
>
> =================================================
>
> NOT AT ALL.  I AM VERY CONSCIOUS OF THE DIVINE SPARK.  I RELY ON
> IT JUST AS WE ALL DO.  BUT I DO NOT NEED TO TAKE RISKS WHEN ON
> INQUIRY, I CAN FIND THAT THE DIVINE SPARK IN OTHES AGREES
> WITH WHAT MY OWS SPEAKS OF AND RECOMMENDS
>
> IT IS ONLY MY OWN DESIRE NATURE THAT IS INCAPABLE OF LOOKING
> THE FUTURE WHICH WOULD SEEK TO IMPELL ME TO TAKE AN
> ADVENTURE -- A KIND OF LEAP INTO THE UNKNOWN.  I DONT
> CONSIDER THAT I WOULD BE WISE TO DO THAT.
> =======================================================

I'm really sorry to hear that.

We will just have to agree to disagree.

I believe that if you want to swim, you've got to get in the water, not
just read about it, or about the others who took the risks for
themselves and dove in.

I also don't agree with you about the desire nature. I think it is able
to see (or sense) the future. That's how it can both remember
experiences, look forward to them and want what it does not yet posess,
but wishes to (in a "someday" future.) I think it is indeed capable of
both looking into the future and the past. Maybe that's Kama-Manas, if
you want to get technical, but experientially, that's pretty much how it
seems to behave.

> >Forgive me if I am blunt, but what is all this instruction for if,
> >ultimately, we never consciously allow ourselves the experience
> >of our own true Being?
>
> ======================================================
>
> MARK:  I AM CONVINCED THAT THE DIVINE SPARK WITHIN INCARNATES
> INTO THIS BODY, SO THAT IT CAN SERVE IT AS A GUIDE OR A TUTOR.
> I AM OF THE OPINION THAT IT HAS ALREADY ACHIEVED A VERY GREAT
> LEVEL OF PROGRESS -- THAT IT IS ONE WITH THE VAST OVER-SOUL OR
> THE SPIRITUAL UNITY OF ALL.  IT IS A "RAY" OF THAT DIVINE
> ALL, AND AS SUCH, IT IS UNITED TO ALL HIGHER SELVES, AND YET
> DETACHED, SO AS TO ASSIST THE DEVELOPMENT AND PROGRESS OF ALL THE
> INEXPERIENCED "MONADS" -- "LIFE-ATOMS" -- WHICH GO TO FORM MY
> PERSONALITY, AND WHICH COME AND GO FROM THE VAST OCEAN OF
> SUCH BEINGS.  --  SO I FEEL I DO KNOW SOMETHING, AND YET I HAVE A
> LOT TO LEARN.  I CAN OFFER WHAT I THINK IS VALUABLE.
>
> ==========================

I understand identification with the personality, but I also know that
all the talk about "IT" just keeps you from integrating the core
experience.

I have a question for you Dallas, and for the list at large:
What is the relationship between Monadic Swabhava and the ordinary
experience of personal individuality? Basically: Can you trust yourself?
... and if not, just where are you going to displace your confidence?

Do you believe that your Monad needs [or wants] (you) to be a person?

I was really suprised to see how many responses to my survey said that
they were "ashamed to admit that they were "Human." What does that say
about us? I'm certainly not, and I don't think anyone should be. Maybe
you were all joking, but I'm not so sure. I was really amazed.

Mark
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