Theos-Talk Archives (January 1998 Message tt00226)

Jan 19th 1998

Dear Jerry:

Thanks for your further observation.  I recall reading that too, as also
the opinion that today we have a far higher concentration of scientifically
trained observers and investigators than (it is estimated) the whole of
antiquity, taken together can possibly muster.  A "guesstimate" at best,
since we do not know how far back civilization has extended, and
unfortunately we have been always taught that the civilization has arisen
in a virtually straight line from savagery to where we are now.  But it
would seem that this is not entirely correct if some of the myths and
traditions of old have validity.  I have seen popular opinions molded too
often by "authorities" in my life time to give them much credence without
adequate proof.  I find that the proofs advanced are little better than
"educated guesses," and in that case I wonder about the "education."

Let me give you (as an aside) a for instance:  suppose that the main
centers for the manufacture of our many conveniences, appliances and
gadgets were destroyed -- by some world wide cataclysm.  Or that suddenly
the ability to generate electricity were cut off.  Or that everyone in
America, because of climatic changes were forced to evacuate the land and
go south, etc...  How many of our urbanites would survive the next 50 to
100 years ?  In the past 80 years most of us have little knowledge of how
to live off the land, of agriculture or animal husbandry.

And 3,000 years from now, members of a fresh scientific team investigating
the remains of our abandoned cities, would find how many of our
(appliances/gadgets) in good enough condition to be able to give them an
idea of our development ?  Most of what we rely on is subject to oxidation
and decay within 3 or 4 centuries.

What would happen to our vast electronic development ?  And what about our
centers for the teaching of Science, and their paper libraries and
experimental labs ?  What would survive ?  Shards, pottery, glass,
sculpture, some buildings built of stone or concrete, the rusted remains of
some great bridges.  Have we built like the Romans did, indestructible
roads and bridges ?  A few.  But why go on, paper, parchment, paintings and
art, most musical instruments, cars, trains and railroads, metals,
etc...would disintegrate.  Probably the most interesting sites would be our
garbage heaps, and if they could be found, our mines and the vast caverns
dug under mountains to house military defenses (if they could still be
opened) ... and so on.  What can we leave for posterity that speaks to our
world-wide civilization which has over the last 50 years grown increasingly
unified ?

What records will remain of our great religions and political and
educational institutions?  How will psychology, philosophy and sociology,
medicine and other philanthropic, ecological, economic, or other
humanitarian structures remain other than as myths, and possibly, the
dimmed memories of a wonderful age when once it was possible to communicate
in an instant to the furthermost part of the earth, or to cure illnesses in
hours ?  Our era may then be in review that of a golden age interspersed
with the traditions of terrible wars which killed off millions of the
population and changed the appearance of many countries.  Perhaps some of
those whom we consider to be great in mind and heart will find that
tradition recalls their names, if not clearly their works.  a personage
like a Gandhi or an H.P.Blavatsky, will not be forgotten for a very long
time.

Now, to get to your comment:

Unfortunately we do not have any accurate statistics concerning the
population of the earth in the past.

As an instance, there is a report around the time when the Tamil kings of
south India invaded Ceylon and destroyed the "olas" of the Buddhist
tradition held there in their temple libraries, (c. 8 - 10th Century) the
population of the island was estimated at 80 million -- which sounds
extraordinary, as to day it is very much smaller, possibly about 6 to 8
million.

I do not know how to answer this objection other than to say estimates are
"guesstimates" in this kind of situation.

There is a tendency for those in our modern science to down play and
minimize their estimates in regard to elder times and quantities in the
past.  Those are their guesses, but are imposed on us as children as though
they were sure truths.  We find out later they were only theories and
subject to change as knowledge deepens.  Personally I object to not being
told from the first that the "facts" offered were opinions!

Since my school days, when the antiquity of man was estimated at between
40,00 and 250,000 years I have seen it expanded to 4 to 6,000,000, if not
longer -- all it demonstrates is that as evidence comes to light, revisions
are mandated.  I was not told in school that those were guesses !

The "hunter/gatherer" idea of humanity emerging from the primitive savagery
of the semi-ape into the prototype of modern man -- a bunch of nomads
roaming the world and subject to every kind of cataclysm is the present
concept that has captured the imagination.  But this idea was around in my
youth and has since then gathered momentum.  The real problem is the
forever "missing link."  Have you read the SECRET DOCTRINE, especially the
2nd volume?  Are you familiar with the presentation of cosmic and human
evolution that Theosophy offers as contrasted with the hypotheses of modern
Science ?  HPB claims that the Lemuro-Atlantean civilization was very
advanced.  It was destroyed and re-emerged later on and since then there
have been successive waves relating to the ups and downs of successive
civilizations.  It is such a pity that we are forced to rely almost
exclusively on artifacts, which gives us around 5 to 55,000 years as a
range in time.  In some cases this has recently been extended to several
100,000 years.

Along with this is the idea that humanity as a type emanated from the
continent of Africa and by gradual degrees spread over the world as those
clans and tribes wandered further afield. If that is true, then the so
called idea of "racial superiority" etc... is so superficial as to be
tragic.

But these are theories, not yet confirmed by either mythology, history, or
artifacts.

Consider the plight of artifacts.  I am looking at the recently published

FORBIDDEN ARCHEOLOGY by M.A. Cremo and R.L.Thompson, 914 pp
published by Bhaktivedanta Society, San Diego, $ 39.95  I have not finished
going through it, but it gives a survey of some of the examples where
evidence was concealed by those interested in preserving the current
theories.  In that current one can go back to writers like:

G. Hancock and R. Bauval wrote :  THE MESSAGE OF THE SPHINX,  Crown
Publishers, N. Y. 1996, about 400 pages, where the geologists,
astro-physicists and the Egyptologists seem to be at each other's throats
in dating the erosion by water of the monument.  Among other things some
artifacts found in the Pyramids have been concealed and not considered
seriously by Egyptologists, and were recovered as a result of the inquiries
made by these authors who report on their investigation of the location of
important Egyptian monuments in and around Gizeh using a date that is
13,000 years older than the present (to locate stellar positions according
to the instructions given in the papyri they consulted as a base.

Of course, going further back we have the books by Joseph Campbell on
mythology and its universal character to consider.  Then, the several books
by E. Velikovsky (written in the 1940-50 era) and the furor that was raise
against Macmillan, their publisher, by the scientific community.  Then,
further back in time, consider the books written and derived from published
newspaper reports of anomalies and curious unexplained events by Charles
Fort:  THE BOOK OF THE DAMNED;  LO;  etc...

I try to keep abreast of the moving wave of discovery and review, and read
every month quite a few of the scientific journals.  It is very interesting
to watch increasingly how Theosophical statements and ideas are being
approached and adopted by science as it advances.  Theosophy is being
continuously vindicated.

I notice that the magazine THEOSOPHY, published in Los Angeles by Theosophy
Company has, since its inception in 1909, maintained a running commentary
on the theories and discoveries of science in their monthly section ON THE
LOOKOUT -- they seem to keep up on both these aspects and try to offer the
Theosophical explanations which reconcile such differences as you mention.

Hope this is of interest,					Dallas

	Dallas TenBroeck

dalval@nwc.net                        (818) 222-8024
                   23145 Park Contessa,
            Calabasas, Ca., 91302, USA.

----------
> From: "Jerry Schueler" <gschueler@netgsi.com>
> Subject: Re:Re: Brenda on Ego
> Date: Sunday, January 18, 1998 5:02 PM
>
> >The total number of those "in incarnation" varies, but the grand total
of
> >those "in" and those "out" is the constant.
> >
> Dallas, this sounds good until we consider that according to
> modern science, there are currently more people living in the
> world today than all of those who lived in the past put together.
> It still may be true, however, if we consider that Theosophy
> has us being around for many more years than science, but
> even with that I have to question Judge on this one. If true,
> then the vast majority of "monads" have been waiting for the
> last three or four million years until now to incarnate.
>
> Jerry S.
>