Theos-Talk Archives (January 1998 Message tt00090)

David Green wrote:

> Jerrry-thanks for comments but
> I asked-Are there Judge letters (1887-93)
> showing this new development?  I mean
> letters (87-93)written by W Judge showing
> he had intimate contact with Master.
>

I'm not aware of any such letters between the dates you specify.  I'm not
even aware of any after that date either, until he was forced to answer
Besant's accusations,  in 1894-95.  Rather, during that period, Judge seems
to keep very quiet about whether or not he had any intimate contact with the
Masters.  How one should interpret this information is another matter.
Since these dates you specify cover the period of the Esoteric Section, and
since Judge was responsible for the American Section of the ES, it would
make sense that Judge would obey the warnings HPB made to ES members about
making public their contacts with the Masters, if any were so made.

> Again I asked---Did W Judge's direct
> contact with Master occur only after Mrs
> Blavatsky departed this life?
>

Didn't I answer this question already when I mentioned Judge's 1875
precipitation of a Mahatma letter, and HPB's 1878 diary entry that Judge had
a meeting with a Master that lasted until 4 a.m.?   Don't these qualify as
direct contacts with Masters during HPB's lifetime?   Another letter from
Morya to Judge was appended to a letter  written by Damodar in 1883.  In
this letter, Morya summoned Judge to go to India.  This would also be during
HPB's lifetime.  In 1884, Judge was with HPB in Paris where they worked
together on the Secret Doctrine.  It was during that time that Judge sent a
correspondent a "rough sketch of Mahatma M."   It seems that Judge must have
had some contact with M at that time in order to make such a sketch.  In
another letter during this period, Judge writes that Olcott wanted him to
stay with HPB, but Judge replied that he had orders from the Master to go to
India.  You will find extracts of these 1884 letters published in the April
1912 issue of THE WORD, pp. 17-24.  I personally find them quite revealing
of a very close relationship between Judge and the Masters.

> 1879-87 appears from Judge's
> letters to be period when W Judge was not
> in direct contact or had few contacts.
>

See the accounts I have documented above for this period.  If pressed, I
could probably find more, but I'm not sure of what would be the point.  What
does it mean to you that Judge had "few contacts"?  How many contacts make a
"few" and how many make a lot?  What is your reference point in order to
make such a measurement?  What is the meaning of this measurement to you
anyway?   Another problem I see in making this Judgment is that only a very
small sample of Judge's letters have even been made public.  Most of Judge's
letters remain unpublished and unavailable in TS archives.   Until Judge's
letters are made available for examination, I think we ought to be very
careful about making these kind of conclusions.

> Are there letters of W Judge showing
> when this new direct intimate contact
> started up 1887 or after?

Again, I'm not aware of any off hand.  However, see my comments above
concerning his ES pledges which would have kept him from making such
contacts public in the first place.

> I've received E Garett's book from
> correspondent in England.  What is
> earliest Master letter precipitated
> thru W Judge in 1880s (1887 or later?)?
>

I mentioned earlier of one letter Judge reports to have precipitated in
1875.   That would probably be the earliest letter precipitated by him.
But it appears that the production and reception of  Mahatma letters
independent of HPB did not begin until he had returned from India in 1884.
Even Olcott comments that a great positive change came over Judge at this
time.  This also marks the beginning of Judge's work in building up the
American Section.

> Thanks to all public and private
> email correspondents on this subject.
> May try to do thesis on Judge if
> okayed.
>

I would be very interested in seeing this thesis.  Please let me know of
your progress.

JJHE