Theos-Talk Archives (December 1997 Message tt00106)

Dec 19th / 21st 1997

Dear Sirish:

Again the message I desired to send you seems to have vanished, but I
recovered it from "deleted messages !" so now I am sending it as an
"attachment."

It is probably only partial and I will have to look carefully to see if I
omitted considering something.  I just tried to make some obvious
corrections, but find that I cannot enter the document to make changes, so
bear with me if it is full of typos which are unintentional.

But I am sending this to you so that there will be less of a time gap.

		all the best to you for the seasonal change

								Dallas
Click on the paper-clip for the attachment




Dallas TenBroeck

dalval@nwc.net                        (818) 222-8023
                   23145 Park Contessa,
            Calabasas, Ca., 91302, USA.

> From: "Visanu Sirichote" <visanu@health.moph.go.th>
> Subject: Re:Organ Transplants
> Date: Friday, December 19, 1997 10:38 AM
>
> Dear Dallas:
>
> It seems that we use the same source of information, my assertions
> in the previous posting also drawn from "the Inner Group Teachings of
> H.P.B." besides her major works and "Collected Writings". Since both of
> us accept the consistency of her teaching dispersed through out numerous
> writings though the earlier teaching was more veiled, the difference in
> our conclusions (mine is that with the dissolution of Linga-Sarira there
> will be no link or attraction between physical organ and other
principles)
> drawn from the same source must stem from flaw in our chain of reasoning
> somewhere and the usefulness of the discussion is that it may bring
> this to light.
>
> I've used the old terminology as in HPB's time to avoid confusion,
> in current usage the best fit for "Linga-Sarira" is "Etheric body".
>
> > In studying the 7 principles of man it dawned on me that each of these
> must
> > be also itself 7-fold, so that the "49 fires" concept may make an
> > understanding of this question possible.
>
> There are seven primary Elements or Forces in nature with its seven
> ramifications and each one of these Forces or Tattvas, which are
> manifestations of the seven Hierarchies, has correlation with our
> principles from Adi Tattva with Auric Envelop or Atma down to Prithvi
> Tattva with physical body, correlations also exist between different
> groups by mean of their subdivision, the fact that our natures partake
> in these forces make it possible for us to control them which is the
> aim of every occultist, however there is no indication that influence
> from higher plane can act directly on physical matter or physical body,
> there has to be organized etheric matter (Linga-Sarira) to function as
> transducer.
>
> An adept who does not retain his Linga-Sarira to be exist as Nirmanakaya
> after his death is totally impotent in the physical plane, no spirits
> or spooks can make any physical manifestation in the seance rooms
> without using Linga-Sarira of the medium.
>
> > If we visualize the astral body as that which maintains permanency of
form
> > for an incarnation, then the forcible introduction of "foreign" issues,
> > liquids, substances into the physical body brings their astral
counterpart
> > along with them.  Hence the conflict between the new and the old which
> > requires the use of rejection suppressing treatments, which are not
always
> > successful.
>
> Our vibration, which is the specific keynote of our individuality, HAD
BEEN
> translated down to physical plane when we began our incarnation by
> selecting appropriate genetic material and was expressed as surface
> antigen on our cells to be recognized as "self". The reaction of "self"
> against "not-self" can be modulated by purely physical means.
Linga-Sarira
> only strengthen the immunologic system by vitalize its direct vehicle,
> white blood cells, the residual of these cells in the transplant organ
> without its living master may even strongly fight back and overcome the
> recipient resulting in fatal graft versus host reaction.
>
> Since the clinical use of cyclosporin in 1983 the success rate of
> organ transplant is always increasing. Now the three-years survival
> rate of organs obtained from unrelated donors in kidney transplant
> is about 85%, with the discovery of new drugs and other methods of
> immuno-modulation organ transplant will be as common as removing
> our appendices.
>
> If we are all One in our highest principles why should we become worry
> when the lowest began to show their lack of boundary of self and their
> reaction of "self" against "not-self" is under our control? In reality
> the separate self exist only in the middle principle, the real animal
> center, whereas our body is but its irresponsible shell.
>
> > Would it not be reasonable to consider that the physical organ brings
with
> > it a portion of the Astral body, the pranic currents, etc... associated
> > with its original user?
>
> Yes, in my previous posting I've used the term magnetism for this
> portion since no higher principles should be considered as localize
> in space and fixed to the organ. There is also synchronicity between
> tissues of the same person even when they are separated (similar to EPR
> correlation in physics) and certain links with its LIVING owner.
>
> We have reached the middle point of our cycle and are on the ascending
> arc with the process of etherealize ourselves along with the globe,
> however before we reach that perfect state isn't it likely that humanity
> will share the same genetic materials of the best types with no problem
> with organ transplants?
>
> Best Wishes and Merry Christmas to All.
>
> May the Power of Almighty Love draw us nearer to our Goal
> and become what we really are "Existence-Knowledge-Bliss"
>
> Visanu

> Subject: Re:Organ Transplants
> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 17:27:50 -0800

Dec 19th 1997

Dear Sirish:

Your message is understood, and in view of the slightly different =
sources
we use there are bound tobe some differences of word usage.  I find this =
so
often is seeking to adjust my thoughts to what othes say.

My sources ar the original books and articles of Mme. H P B.  Also I =
have
found the writings of W Q Judge to be in line with hers and in some =
cases
he explains what she says very well -- so that the "doors" are opened a
little wider.  I do not know if you ar familiar with his writings at =
all.

I wroteof the 7 "principles"each being 7-fold.  Hence in each of them =
there
is an aspect of all the others.  Taken as a whole it would seem to be =
the
basis for the living consciousness at any one time, place or situation.

I will write this as I have understood the doctrines from what HPB =
writes:

If we assume that ATMA-BUDDHI-MANAS [ the One in Three ] is the immortal
Being, the Higher Self being ATMA-BUDDHI, and MANAS being the link to =
the
transcient personality in any one life, then when the life force (an =
aspect
of karma) reaches the end for that personality it dies, and all the =
organs
resolve themselves back into their component atoms and return to nature =
to
be used elsewhere for a while (still under karma, as even during life =
there
is this constant revolution of the "life-atoms" entering and leaving the
body constantly.

But what regulates them ?  Is it not the force of individual and =
personal
karma coupled ?

> From: "Visanu Sirichote" <visanu@health.moph.go.th>
> Subject: Re:Organ Transplants
> Date: Friday, December 19, 1997 10:38 AM
>
> Dear Dallas:
>=20
> It seems that we use the same source of information, my assertions
> in the previous posting also drawn from "the Inner Group Teachings of
> H.P.B." besides her major works and "Collected Writings". Since both =
of
> us accept the consistency of her teaching dispersed through out =
numerous
> writings though the earlier teaching was more veiled, the difference =
in
> our conclusions (mine is that with the dissolution of Linga-Sarira =
there
> will be no link or attraction between physical organ and other
principles)
> drawn from the same source must stem from flaw in our chain of =
reasoning
> somewhere and the usefulness of the discussion is that it may bring
> this to light.
>=20
> I've used the old terminology as in HPB's time to avoid confusion,
> in current usage the best fit for "Linga-Sarira" is "Etheric body".
>=20
> > In studying the 7 principles of man it dawned on me that each of =
these
> must
> > be also itself 7-fold, so that the "49 fires" concept may make an
> > understanding of this question possible.
>=20
> There are seven primary Elements or Forces in nature with its seven
> ramifications and each one of these Forces or Tattvas, which are
> manifestations of the seven Hierarchies, has correlation with our
> principles from Adi Tattva with Auric Envelop or Atma down to Prithvi
> Tattva with physical body, correlations also exist between different
> groups by mean of their subdivision, the fact that our natures partake
> in these forces make it possible for us to control them which is the
> aim of every occultist, however there is no indication that influence
> from higher plane can act directly on physical matter or physical =
body,
> there has to be organized etheric matter (Linga-Sarira) to function as
> transducer.
>=20
> An adept who does not retain his Linga-Sarira to be exist as =
Nirmanakaya
> after his death is totally impotent in the physical plane, no spirits
> or spooks can make any physical manifestation in the seance rooms
> without using Linga-Sarira of the medium.
>=20
> > If we visualize the astral body as that which maintains permanency =
of
form
> > for an incarnation, then the forcible introduction of "foreign" =
issues,
> > liquids, substances into the physical body brings their astral
counterpart
> > along with them.  Hence the conflict between the new and the old =
which
> > requires the use of rejection suppressing treatments, which are not
always
> > successful.
>=20
> Our vibration, which is the specific keynote of our individuality, HAD
BEEN
> translated down to physical plane when we began our incarnation by
> selecting appropriate genetic material and was expressed as surface
> antigen on our cells to be recognized as "self". The reaction of =
"self"
> against "not-self" can be modulated by purely physical means.
Linga-Sarira
> only strengthen the immunologic system by vitalize its direct vehicle,
> white blood cells, the residual of these cells in the transplant organ
> without its living master may even strongly fight back and overcome =
the
> recipient resulting in fatal graft versus host reaction.
>=20
> Since the clinical use of cyclosporin in 1983 the success rate of
> organ transplant is always increasing. Now the three-years survival
> rate of organs obtained from unrelated donors in kidney transplant
> is about 85%, with the discovery of new drugs and other methods of
> immuno-modulation organ transplant will be as common as removing
> our appendices.
>=20
> If we are all One in our highest principles why should we become worry
> when the lowest began to show their lack of boundary of self and their
> reaction of "self" against "not-self" is under our control? In reality
> the separate self exist only in the middle principle, the real animal
> center, whereas our body is but its irresponsible shell.
>=20
> > Would it not be reasonable to consider that the physical organ =
brings
with
> > it a portion of the Astral body, the pranic currents, etc... =
associated
> > with its original user?
>=20
> Yes, in my previous posting I've used the term magnetism for this
> portion since no higher principles should be considered as localize
> in space and fixed to the organ. There is also synchronicity between
> tissues of the same person even when they are separated (similar to =
EPR
> correlation in physics) and certain links with its LIVING owner.
>=20
> We have reached the middle point of our cycle and are on the ascending
> arc with the process of etherealize ourselves along with the globe,
> however before we reach that perfect state isn't it likely that =
humanity
> will share the same genetic materials of the best types with no =
problem
> with organ transplants?
>=20
> Best Wishes and Merry Christmas to All.
>=20
> May the Power of Almighty Love draw us nearer to our Goal
> and become what we really are "Existence-Knowledge-Bliss"
>=20
> Visanu