From rialto9000@yahoo.com Tue Sep 01 04:25:58 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: rialto9000@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 54433 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2009 11:25:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m4.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2009 11:25:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n74.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (98.136.44.186) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2009 11:25:53 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n74.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2009 11:25:36 -0000 X-Received: from [67.195.9.82] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2009 11:25:36 -0000 X-Received: from [67.195.9.109] by t2.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2009 11:25:35 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp113.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2009 11:25:35 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 937334.40997.bm@omp113.mail.gq1.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 67235 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Sep 2009 11:25:35 -0000 Message-ID: <835944.58276.qm@web111606.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: BVEWlNcVM1nuzuz5T8jwVCNDgzNmep28u4.qq54sgJCDPB9cSMY44ZI_Sybs_ASWfgMmFKBVqFhxB2nuvfX3zmOEukH2byB7qe6jaUlekBFSYHCZ3xwWGpYenIbnv9fCB6Bh2WlhkgCIFzLB0M5VQzZw05kqejrzoHoB67RHKxrGC66NXD4JgcmljqTZmA5udydOANamKtCgvuBJJIM- X-Received: from [69.206.157.190] by web111606.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 Sep 2009 04:25:35 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/6.1.2 YahooMailWebService/0.7.338.2 Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 04:25:35 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 98.136.44.186 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rialto Maldonado Subject: repply to forum X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=406647630; y=lOfWDviyWvMSaGrq2NyFXiweS_vkkfd_TfLZBJNJHJ_HSOJjAQ X-Yahoo-Profile: rialto9000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52783 =A0I agree with the forum on most issues and i,ve been busy reading a few q= uest books =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0recently. The ts is unique in its thr= ee objects and apllication of them.We try to follow =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= these objects practically.Lillian =A0storey in london =A0said its an honou= r to be a theosophist =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 and a geat privelidge which shoul= d be cherished. =20=20=20=20=20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Sep 01 05:31:36 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 76691 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2009 12:31:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2009 12:31:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO qw-out-1920.google.com) (74.125.92.147) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2009 12:31:29 -0000 X-Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 5so1103004qwf.56 for ; Tue, 01 Sep 2009 05:30:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.29.148 with SMTP id q20mr2040501qcc.51.1251808227970; Tue, 01 Sep 2009 05:30:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 07:30:27 -0500 Message-ID: To: theos-talk X-Originating-IP: 74.125.92.147 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Some thoughts on Transparency X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=c7MtiS9QcIwNdFFDOP1mJ4mPkqXA1nf1WNB9ipveJbD9j9TqaGg X-Yahoo-Profile: ramadoss226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52784 Recently when I visited a state government website in the USA, I looked at the site map and was surprised and impressed to find Transparency as one of the topics. . Obviously, in the 21st century, transparency is becoming easier to implemen= t with the help of Internet. All meetings can be streamed on-line and can als= o be archived for later viewing. All documentation can be put online and can be viewed any time. . In the USA, it is a legal requirement that all public bodies have to meet i= n open meetings and criminal penalties are there if anyone violates it. In th= e wisdom of those who formulated these requirements, they found it is a great safeguard to protect the public interests to prevent backdoor secret decisions hurting the public. . The recent events in TS has high lighted the need for transparency. Startin= g with the untruthful information about the health of the sitting president a= t the time of the election and subsequent shocking attempt to secretly disenfranchise all members and seize the power of appointing the president leaves much of a choice to members. These actions and continued silence of the leaders, elders, long-time members, and other well known members, does not help increase the trust members have in their leaders. . Unless members are alert and vigilant, the continued inaction in the bringing about transparency at the autonomous Section level activities, we do not know what danger is being cooked behind the scenes. This is all the more important because, the strongly divided voting pattern in the last GC meeting says a lot. It is in stark contrast with the almost unanimous pattern that is the norm since the days of Olcott. . Fortunately, we are blessed with the benefit of the Master=E2=80=99s warnin= g - MISLEADING SECRECY HAS GIVEN THE DEATH BLOW TO NUMEROUS ORGANIZATIONS. . Let us benefit from it. It is high time members demand their Section leader= s to immediately implement total transparency. It is very easy to do it. . MKR . visit *theosophy.net* [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From c.leest@yahoo.com Tue Sep 01 08:27:32 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: c.leest@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 22598 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2009 15:27:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2009 15:27:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n44d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.158) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2009 15:27:28 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.150] by n44.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2009 15:26:28 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2009 15:26:28 -0000 Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 15:26:28 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <946986641.1166871251773969391.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.169.158 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 94.208.134.62 From: "c.leest" Subject: Re: Faked moon landing? Update -- Shock in Amsterdam X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=392285399; y=Rt1hVkmHNZhpyuTHOgIygG05qZhrBKpzqtZwWMitMjCcHw X-Yahoo-Profile: c.leest X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52785 I have pictures from Nasa, they collected plants to bring next to the moon = and much more for investigation and rocks back, but all in glass cylinders.= So out of the connection with our atmosphere. I cannot see any fake in that pictures.I cannot understand why Amsterdam ha= ve not seen it is wood, also stoned wood feels different that real rocks. Christina --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Augoeides-222@... wrote: > > Christina,=20 > It appears to me that when the recipient of the Original Authentic Moon R= ock died someone having access to the owners estate switched it using a pie= ce of petrified wood which is plainly and most obviously not a "Moon Rock".= There is no "Petrified Wood" on the moon lol!!! Authentic Real Moon Rocks = can be sold on the black market for up to $1 million USD.=20 >=20 > Here is a working link to the Article:=20 >=20 > BBC News Fake Dutch Moon Rock=20 >=20 > >>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8226075.stm<<<=20 >=20 > America did land on the moon even the Russians say so lol!=20 >=20 > Soviet Top Secret Project=20 >=20 > >>> Soviet top secret space project gets second life - RT <<<=20 >=20 > Regards,=20 > John=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "c.leest" =20 > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 > Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 1:09:20 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific=20 > Subject: Theos-World Re: Faked moon landing? Update -- Shock in Amsterdam= =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Wha is fake, also this url is error, not to be find.=20 > Christina=20 >=20 > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com , "Frank Reitemeyer" wr= ote:=20 > >=20 > > Shock in Amsterdam Museum.=20 > >=20 > > The stone from the moon landing turns out a fake:=20 > >=20 > > http://www.usatoday.com/travel/destinations/2009-08-27-rijksmuseum-moon= -rock_N.htm=20 > >=20 > > First time in life I had serious doubts about accepted Western academic= =20 > > dogmas like virusses, inocculation, vivisection or moon landings after= =20 > > studying Blavatsky commentator and successor Gottfried de Purucker. Aft= er=20 > > this initiation I made in-depth studies. Today the picture about the co= mmon=20 > > conspiracy is quite clear.=20 > >=20 > > Interesting, that the biggest German newspaper prints the demand for=20 > > research of all alleged moon stones.=20 > >=20 > > Theosophists should make inquiries that also research should be made on= :=20 > >=20 > > - the original Apollo films=20 > > - the original Apollo devices=20 > > - the original Apollo space suits=20 > >=20 > > Bear in mind, that all films, devices, space suits etc. Nasa shows sinc= e 40=20 > > years in museums, exhibitions, are NOT original, but "reconstructions".= =20 > >=20 > > I for one write oftren readers letters and inquiries to authorities. It= is=20 > > most interesting, what can turn out with this letters over the years.=20 > >=20 > > In the early 1980'ies I supported an Aids critical group, who demanded= =20 > > proofs that=20 > > the HIV virus exists and that this virus is responsible for a bulk of 3= 0=20 > > ordinary ilnesses. Billions of dollars "science" has sucked out this th= en=20 > > from the taxpayers with no result until now...=20 > >=20 > > But end of the 1980'ies my search for truth was rewarded as I came to=20 > > theosophy and with theosophy came the most needed answers for many life= long=20 > > bruning questions.=20 > >=20 > > But what of the burning questions of TODAY?=20 > > What about the suffering of the billions of innocent people TODAY?=20 > >=20 > > Since 100 years the ULT sows doubt about the Masters of Wisdom and Thei= r=20 > > messengers.=20 > >=20 > > The ULT teaches the heresy that each theosophist can find the truth for= =20 > > him/her/it alone.=20 > >=20 > > But since 100 years fails to give proofs in form of answers to burning= =20 > > questions.=20 > >=20 > > Theosophists should also ask the ULT about the theosophical position to= =20 > > themes like virusses, moon landings etc.=20 > >=20 > > BTW, the moon stone is not the only fake on historical matters in=20 > > Amsterdam...=20 > >=20 > > "License history" as KH would say ("Five years of Theosophy", p. 326).= =20 > >=20 > > Frank=20 > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Tue Sep 01 09:14:03 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 26578 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2009 16:13:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m4.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2009 16:13:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mx03.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.13) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2009 16:13:57 -0000 X-Received: from 56340ee0.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.14.224] helo=khidr) by mx03.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1MiVwU-0006E3-33 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 01 Sep 2009 18:10:47 +0200 Message-ID: <002001ca2b1f$0ba25910$e00e3456@khidr> To: References: Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 18:12:46 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.13 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" Subject: Re: Theos-World Some thoughts on Transparency X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=yD5MAZM913tgJHOrAzHDC52BCzndWCT2Pq8CeiMJ-YdW X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52786 MKR wrote: "MISLEADING SECRECY HAS GIVEN THE DEATH BLOW TO NUMEROUS ORGANIZATIONS." M. Sufilight says: Yes. I wonder, what would happen with "MISLEADING OPENNESS"? - - - A bit of Zen - - - A) FLAG The wind was flapping a temple flag. Two monks were arguing about it. One s= aid the flag was moving; the other said the wind was moving. Arguing back a= nd forth they could come to no agreement. The Sixth Patriarch said, "It is neither the wind nor the flag that is movi= ng. It is your mind that is moving."=20 - - - B) Zen Saying: Be master of mind rather than mastered by mind.=20 - - - C) Zen Saying: Zen mind is not Zen mind. That is, if you are attached to Zen mind, then yo= u have a problem, and your way is very narrow.=20 M. Sufilight ----- Original Message -----=20 From: MKR=20 To: theos-talk=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 2:30 PM Subject: Theos-World Some thoughts on Transparency Recently when I visited a state government website in the USA, I looked= at the site map and was surprised and impressed to find Transparency as one = of the topics. . Obviously, in the 21st century, transparency is becoming easier to implem= ent with the help of Internet. All meetings can be streamed on-line and can a= lso be archived for later viewing. All documentation can be put online and ca= n be viewed any time. . In the USA, it is a legal requirement that all public bodies have to meet= in open meetings and criminal penalties are there if anyone violates it. In = the wisdom of those who formulated these requirements, they found it is a gre= at safeguard to protect the public interests to prevent backdoor secret decisions hurting the public. . The recent events in TS has high lighted the need for transparency. Start= ing with the untruthful information about the health of the sitting president= at the time of the election and subsequent shocking attempt to secretly disenfranchise all members and seize the power of appointing the presiden= t leaves much of a choice to members. These actions and continued silence o= f the leaders, elders, long-time members, and other well known members, doe= s not help increase the trust members have in their leaders. . Unless members are alert and vigilant, the continued inaction in the bringing about transparency at the autonomous Section level activities, w= e do not know what danger is being cooked behind the scenes. This is all th= e more important because, the strongly divided voting pattern in the last G= C meeting says a lot. It is in stark contrast with the almost unanimous pattern that is the norm since the days of Olcott. . Fortunately, we are blessed with the benefit of the Master=E2=80=99s warn= ing - MISLEADING SECRECY HAS GIVEN THE DEATH BLOW TO NUMEROUS ORGANIZATIONS. . Let us benefit from it. It is high time members demand their Section lead= ers to immediately implement total transparency. It is very easy to do it. . MKR . visit *theosophy.net* [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From r.dijkstra@quicknet.nl Tue Sep 01 13:05:49 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: r.dijkstra@quicknet.nl X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 79777 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2009 20:05:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2009 20:05:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO smtpq2.gn.mail.iss.as9143.net) (212.54.34.165) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2009 20:05:43 -0000 X-Received: from [212.54.34.141] (helo=smtp10.gn.mail.iss.as9143.net) by smtpq2.gn.mail.iss.as9143.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MiZbZ-0002q1-Fx; Tue, 01 Sep 2009 22:05:25 +0200 X-Received: from 213-73-130-179.cable.quicknet.nl ([213.73.130.179] helo=uw6rspzydfvpyj) by smtp10.gn.mail.iss.as9143.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MiZbS-0005TX-Ry; Tue, 01 Sep 2009 22:05:19 +0200 To: "Renger Dijkstra" Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 22:05:23 +0200 Message-ID: <010801ca2b3f$8a541260$9efc3720$@dijkstra@quicknet.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AcorP4n+SbCYRA7/SyiZhqwVPl6O5Q== Content-Language: nl X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-ID: 1MiZbS-0005TX-Ry X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-SpamCheck: geen spam, SpamAssassin (niet cached, score=0.961, vereist 5, ALL_TRUSTED -1.80, BAYES_00 -2.60, FRT_COCK 1.59, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00, MSGID_MULTIPLE_AT 1.45, TVD_RCVD_IP 1.93, TW_IJ 0.08, TW_JC 0.08, TW_JK 0.08, TW_JZ 0.08, TW_WK 0.08) X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-From: r.dijkstra@quicknet.nl X-Spam-Status: No X-Originating-IP: 212.54.34.165 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Renger Dijkstra" Subject: Acquistions july-august 2009 Theosophical Library Amsterdam X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=53711327; y=sQvJYdYUlMGWEbwaP3NCa_voQacULztFifFiTGIs0Dfmd84Ipazw4EBL X-Yahoo-Profile: renger_dijkstra Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52787 Aanwinsten juli-augustus 2009 / Acquisitions july-august 2009 =20 Nieuwe boeken en artikelen in de Theosofische Bibliotheek Amsterdam New books and articles in the Theosophical Library Amsterdam, The Netherlands Search by yourself in our catalogue with more than 25.000 books and 93.000 articles on theosophy, religion and esotericism at: http://www.theosofie.nl/bibliotheek/index.htm =20 Met vriendelijke groet, with kind regards Renger Dijkstra, bibliothecaris, librarian =20 Ashokananda, S. Advaita en het monisme in de vedanta in de woorden van swami Ashokananda ; Ramakrishna Orde van India ; [vert. uit het Engels: Andr=E9 van den Brink]. - Amsterdam : Gopher, 2008. - 16 p= . ; 21 cm. sign.: REL-11-6-ASHO-1 Trefw.: religie, hindoe=EFsme, vedanta, advaita vedanta, spiritualiteit =20 Blavatsky, H.P. Kosmische evolutie : in zeven stanza's, vertaald uit het Boek van Dzyan : stanza IV / 9uit H.P. Blavatsky, De Geheime Leer, deel I, Het ontstaan van de kosmos, Theosophical University Press) In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (augustus), p. 144-145. theosofie, kosmische evolutie, stanza's =20 Boer, I. de De stem van de stilte : de wereld achter het werk deel I / Ingmar de Boer In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (augustus), p. 146-152. theosofie, De stem van de Stilte, commentaren =20 Bont, M.H. de Spiritisme versus mysticisme : de Rozekruis Orde A.M.O.R.C. verhandeling door M.H. de Bont. - 's-Gravenhage : AMORC-Nederland, 19XX. - 19 p. ; 21 cm. - (AMORC-Akademie ; 17)=20 sign.: ESO-5-2-BONT-1 Trefw.: esoterie, rozenkruisers, AMORC, spiritisme, mystiek =20 Burnier, R. Krishnamurti en de theosofie / R. Burnier en P. Krishna ; vert. [uit het Engels] A.M.I. In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (augustus), p. 135-143. theosofie, J. Krishnamurti =20 Gordon, J.S. Egypt, child of Atlantis : a radical interpretation of the origins of civilization : Cosmic seasons and astronomical cycles -- Geological, geographical, and climatological issues -- The disappearing "Atlantes" -- The appearance of culture and civilization -- Egyptian magic and the law of hierarchy -- Two mystery traditions reconsidered -- Gods of the abyss and underworld -- The ancient esoteric division of Egypt and the significance o= f its major temples -- Completing the "jigsaw puzzle" of astronomical metaphors and allegories -- Sacred geometry and the "living" architecture o= f Egypt -- The esoteric significance of the sphinx and pyramids -- The internal geometry of the great pyramid -- Reflections=20 John Gordon . - Rochester, Vt : Bear and Co, 2004. - x, 294 p. : ill. ; 26 cm. Originally published: Land of the fallen star gods. England : Orpheus Pub. House, 1997. - notes, glossary, bibliography, index. ISBN 9781591430230 sign.: RAN-8-2-GORD-2 Trefw.: religie, Egypte =20 Gout, M. Geometrie : modulaire co=F6rdinatie in de Middeleeuwen M. Gout. - [Delft] : [Technische Universiteit], [1987]. - 51 p. : ill. ; 2= 3 cm. sign.: RAN-4-3-GOUT-2 Trefw.: symboliek, symbolische meetkunde, geometrie, bouwkunst, kathedralen= , middeleeuwen =20 Gout, M. Geometrie in de tempel : de ma=E7onnieke bouwsymboliek verklaard aan de han= d van de kathedraal van Ami=EBns M. Gout ; [foto's: M.G. Gout ... et al. ; red.: J.A. den Ouden ; ill.: W.F. Veen]. - Gouda : De Steensplinter, 2009. - 96 p. : ill. ; 24 cm. - (Kubusreeks ; 11)=20 ISBN 9789057170263 sign.: ESO-4-4-GOUT-2 Trefw.: esoterie, vrijmetselarij, religieuze bouwkunst, geometrie, symbolische meetkunde, kathedralen, Ami=EBns, architectuur =20 Haak, D. van den Het Gods-begrip van Spinoza : lezing gehouden voor de Rozekruisers-Akademie door D. van den Haak. - 's-Gravenhage : AMORC-Nederland, 19XX. - 27 p. ; 2= 1 cm. - (AMORC-Akademie ; 43)=20 sign.: ESO-5-2-HAAK-1 Trefw.: esoterie, rozenkruisers, AMORC, godsbegrip, Spinoza =20 Hafiz Verzen uit de Schrift van het Hart Hafiz ; gesel. en vert. [uit het Engels naar de oorspr. Perzische uitg.] door Wim van der Zwan. - Deventer : Ankh-Hermes, cop. 2000. - 110 p. ; 18 cm. - (Ori=EBnt-serie) . - bibliografie. ISBN 9020219685 sign.: ESO-12-2-HAFI-1 Trefw.: esoterie, soefisme, mystiek, liefde, gedichten, filosofie =20 Hanegraaff, W.J. Hermes in the Academy : ten years' study of westen esotericism at the University of Amsterdam : Part 1 History of hermetic philosophy and related currents : origins and development: The birth of a chair / Roelof van den Broeck. Ten years of studying and teaching western esotericism / Wouter J. Hanegraaff ; Part 2 Glimpses of research: The pagan who come from the east: George Gemistos Plethon and platonic orientalism / Wouter J. Hanegraaff. Astrologia hermetica: astrology, western culture, and the Academy / Kocku von Stuckrad. The modernity of occultisme: reflections on some crucial aspects / Marco Pasi. Mathematical esotericism: some perspectives on renaissance arithmology ; Jeane-Pierre Brach. Danish esotericism in the 20t= h century: the case of Martinus / Olav Hammer ; Part 3 Studying western esotericism in Amsterdam: On first looking into the Halls of Hermeticism / Marieke J.E. van den Doel. An unlikely love affair: Plato, the Netherlands, and life after westotericism / Dylan Burns. Heterology in Amsterdam: the Academy takes the other out to dinner / Osvald Vasicek. The Copenhagen connection / Sara Moldrup Theils. If you seek / Susannah Crockford ; Part 4 Western esotericism in international perpective: From "the hermetic tradion= " to "western esotericism"/ Allison Coudert. From Paris to Amsterdam and beyond: origins and development of a collaboration / Antoine Faivre. Wester= n esotericism in the United Kingdom / Nicholas Goodrick-Clark. From talk abou= t esotericism to esotericism research: remarks on the prehistory and development of a Research Group / Monika Neugebauer-W=F6lk. Seven epistemological theses on esotericism: upon the occasion of the 10th anniversary of the Amsterdam Chair / Andreas Kilcher. Hermes and his students in Amsterdam / Joyce Pijnenburg ed. Wouter J. Hanegraaff and Joyce Pijnenburg ; preface Jos=E9 van Dijck ; Roelof van den Broeck ; Kocku von Stuckrad ; Marco Pasi ; Jeane-Pierre Brac= h ; Olav Hammer ; Marieke J.E. van den Doel ; Dylan Burns ; Osvald Vasicek ; Sara Moldrup Theils ; Susannah Crockford ; Allison Coudert ; Antoine Faivre ; Nicholas Goodrick-Clark ; Monika Neugebauer-W=F6lk ; Andreas Kilcher . - Amsterdam : Amsterdam University Press, 2009. - 163 p. : ill. ; 24 cm.. - notes, bibliography, register. ISBN 9789056295721 sign.: ESO-1-1-HANE-6 Trefw.: esoterie, westerse esoterie, hermetische filosofie, studies, geschiedenis, Universiteit van Amsterdam, GHF, paganisme, occultisme, hermetica, jubileumuitgaven, theosofie =20 Huijs, P.W.F. Geroepen door het wereldhart : een beschouwing over het ontstaan en de ontwikkeling van de Geestesschool van het Gouden Rozenkruis en haar stichters J. van Rijckenborgh en Catharose de Petri=20 door Peter Huijs ; [red.: Kees Bode ... et al. ; eindred.: Mirjam Duivenvoorden ; fotogr.: Foto-archief E.T. Hamelink ... et al.]. - Haarlem = : Rozekruis Pers, cop. 2009. - 455 p. : ill. ; 23 cm.. - algemene bibliografie, bibliografie, register. ISBN 9789067323406 sign.: ESO-5-4-HUIJ-1 Trefw.: esoterie, rozenkruisers, Jan van Rijckenborgh, Catharose de Petri, geschiedenis, filosofie, Lectorium Rosicrucianum, religie, gnosticisme =20 Idee De idee achter de schepping Haarlem : Het Rozekruisers Genootschap, 19XX. - 11 p. ; 20 cm. sign.: ESO-5-4-IDEE-1 Trefw.: rozenkruisers, schepping =20 Ierlant, F. van Wie was... Jiddu Krishnamurti : 1895-1986 / FvI In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (augustus), p. 169-172. theosofie, J. Krishnamurti =20 Jayaprakash, A. Spiritualiteit : een levenswijze / A. Jayaprakash ; vert. [uit het Engels] A.M.I. In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (augustus), p. 165-168. theosofie, spiritualiteit =20 Kriyananda, G. Kriya-yoga : werk- en oefenboek Goswami Kriyananda ; [vert. uit het Engels: Jacqueline Moonen]. - Deventer = : Ankh-Hermes, cop. 1994. - 361 p. : ill. ; 22 cm. Vert. van: The spiritual science of kriya yoga. - Chicago : The Temple of Kriya Yoga, 1992. - register. ISBN 9020251597 sign.: REL-11-8-KRIY-1 Trefw.: religie, hindoe=EFsme, yoga, kriya-yoga, spiritualiteit, verlichtin= g, reinigingstechnieken, concentratie, meditatie, contemplatie, asana's, ontspanningshoudingen, chakra's, hamsa-kriyatechnieken =20 Laroche, J.-P. Proph=E9ties pour temps de crise : interpr=E9tations de Nostradamus au fil = des si=E8cles : (Fonds Michel Chomarat de la Biblioth=E8que municipale de Lyon)= : [exposition], Salon-de-Provence, Ch=E2teau de l'Emp=E9ri, 14 juin - 21 sept= embre 2003=20 catalogue redig=E9 par Jean-Paul Laroche. - Lyon : Editions Michel Chomarat= , 2003. - 155 p. : ill. ; 24 cm.. - bibliographie, index des noms cit=E9s. ISBN 2908185539 sign.: RAN-6-15-LARO-1 Trefw.: Nostradamus, voorspellingen, tentoonstellingscatalogi =20 Leene, M. Mijn steen, mijn leermeester Mia Leene ; met ill. van Thalia ter Kuile. - Haarlem : Ercee, cop. 1983. - 161 p. : ill. ; 21 cm.. - bibliografie. sign.: ESO-5-6-LEEN-17 Trefw.: esoterie, rozenkruisers, edelstenen, kosmische krachten, occultisme= , gezondheid, mystiek =20 Leroy, E. Nostradamus : ses origines, sa vie, son oeuvre=20 Edgar Leroy ; pr=E9face Sylvain Gagni=E8re. - r=E9impression de l'=E9dition= de Bergerac 1972. - [Marseille] : Laffite Reprints, cop. 1993. - ix, 198 p. : ill. ; 25 cm.. - notes. ISBN 2862762318 sign.: RAN-6-15-LERO-1 Trefw.: Nostradamus, voorspellingen, biografie=EBn =20 Lommel, W. van Een bijna-doodervaring, en hoe verder? W. van Lommel. - 2e dr. - Loosdrecht : I.A.N.D.S. Nederland ; Stichting Merkawah, 1994. - 28 p. ; 24 cm.. - literatuur. sign.: RAN-3-7-LOMM-2 Trefw.: ervaringen met de dood, BDE, bijna-dood ervaringen, dood, onderzoek =20 Macht De macht van het niet-doen Haarlem : Rozekruis-Pers, 19XX. - 12 p. ; 21 cm. sign.: ESO-5-4-MACH-1 Trefw.: esoterie, rozenkruisers, niet-doen, woe-wei, religie, chinese godsdiensten =20 Pennick, N. Sacrale geometrie : verborgen lijnen in de bouwkunst=20 Nigel Pennick ; de Nederlandse uitg. in samenw. met en aangevuld door: M. Gout ; eindred. & bew.: M. Gout ; [vert. uit het Engels: Wouter Hekkelman]. - Den Haag : Synthese, 2004. - 222 p. : ill. ; 22 cm. Vert. van: Sacred geometry. - Wellingborough, Northamptonshire : Turnstone, cop. 1999. - verklarende woordenlijst. ISBN 906271952X sign.: RAN-4-3-PENN-1 Trefw.: symboliek, symbolische meetkunde, sacrale geometrie, bouwkunst, geschiedenis, Engeland, Egypte, Mesopotami=EB, Griekenland, Vitruvius, Magistri Comanchini, middeleeuwen, mysteri=EBn, Renaissance, Barok, wetensc= hap =20 Plannen Plannen voor aanbouw weg over terrein Adyar In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (augustus), p. 173. theosofie, Adyar =20 Rao, S.K.R. Tantra, mantra, yantra : the tantra psychology S.K. Ramachandra Rao. - New Delhi : Arnold-Heinemann, 1975. - 79 p., [4] leaves of plates. : ill. ; 24 cm.. - references. sign.: REL-11-15-RAO-1 Trefw.: religie, hindoe=EFsme, boeddhisme, tantra, mantra, yantra, psycholo= gie =20 Ratanasuwan, P. Buddha vidya (buddhology) by Phorn Ratanasuwan ; translator: Siri Buddhasukh. - Bangkok, Thailand : Home of Psychical Research, 1983. - A-H, 455, 140 p. ; 25 cm. Translation of: Phutthawitthaya. - index. sign.: REL-12-1-RATA-1 Trefw.: religie, boeddhisme =20 Rijneker, E. Leven na leven / Els Rijneker In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (augustus), p. 161-164. theosofie, leven en dood, onsterfelijkheid =20 Rozekruisers De Rozekruisers onthullen hun geheim de Opperste Raad van de Rozekruisers Orde AMORC ; [vert. uit het Frans] . - Leeuwarden : Elikser, 2008. - 251 p. : ill. ; 21 cm. Vert. van: Les Rose-Croix l=E8vent le secret. - Paris : Lanore, 2008 ISBN 9789089540706 sign.: ESO-5-2-ROZE-1 Trefw.: esoterie, rozekruisers, AMORC, spiritualiteit, materie, bewustzijn, leven, symboliek, filosofie, gezondheid, ziel, psyche, geest, ziel, wonderen, Jezus, tempeliers, evolutie, alchemie, sterrenkunde, manifesten, goed en kwaad, geluk, God, geneeskunde, Egypte, natuurkunde, wetenschap, humanisme, geschiedenis =20 Ruusbroec, J. van De geestelijke bruiloft Jan van Ruusbroec ; en ingel. door Guido de Baere ; vert. [uit het Middelnederlands] door Jos van den Hoek. - 1e dr. - 's-Hertogenbosch [etc.] : KBS, 2008. - 213 p. ; 22 cm. Vert. van: Die chierheit der gheestelicker brulocht ISBN 9789061731108 sign.: REL-6-6-RUUS-2a Trefw.: religie, christendom, mystiek, spiritualiteit, christelijke mystiek= , Jan van Ruusbroec, middeleeuws christendom, religieuze ervaring =20 Safran, A. Wisdom of the kabbalah Alexandre Safran ; translated from the French by E.M. Sandle. - Jerusalem ; New York : Feldheim, 1991. - [9], 230 p. ; 24 cm. Vert. van: Sagesse de la Kabbale. - Paris : Stock, 1986. - glossary. ISBN 0873065824 sign.: ESO-7-1-SAFR-3 Trefw.: esoterie, kabbala, wijsheid, mystiek, joodse mystiek, religie, geschiedenis =20 Smit, P.J. Bewustzijn voorbij de grenzen : bijna-doodervaringen in perspectief, deel 2 / Peter J. Smit In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (augustus), p. 153-160. theosofie, bewustzijn, BDE =20 Steiner, R. Apocalypse en priesterschap Rudolf Steiner ; met een naw. van Wolf-Ulrich Kl=FCnker ; [vert. naw. Jelle van der Schuit ; ill. Rudolf Steiner] ; vert. [uit het Duits] door Hylcke Brandts Buys. - Zeist : Vrij Geestesleven, cop. 2005. - 340 p., [16] p. ill. : ill. ; 21 cm. - (Werken en voordrachten / Rudolf Steiner ; Werkterreinen van de antroposofie/Religie ; m1)=20 Vert. van: Apokalypse und Priesterwerken. - Dornach : Rudolf Steiner Verlag= , 1995. - (Rudolf Steiner Gesamtausgabe ; nr. 346). - aantekeningen, bibliografie, levensoverzicht. ISBN 9060385500 sign.: ESO-9-4-STEI-90 Trefw.: esoterie, antroposofie, Einde der tijden, apocalypse, priesterschap= , Openbaring van Johannes, filosofie =20 Troost, A. Heile Dich selbst mit Bachbl=FCten : warum geben die Bachbl=FCten seelische= s Wachstum und Gesundheit? Annemarie Troost. - 1. Aufl. - Sils Maria : Rosenkreuzer Philosophie Verlag= , 2006. - 330 p. : diagr. ; 22 cm.. - Literaturhinweise. ISBN 9783906414478 sign.: RAN-5-1-TROO-1 Trefw.: gezondheid, bachbloesemtherapie, esoterie, rozenkruisers, Max Heindel =20 Troost, A. Heile Dich selbst mit den Engeln : ein wahrhaft geistiges Heilbuch Annemarie Troost. - 1. Aufl. - Sils Maria : Heile Dich Selbst Verlag, 2008. - 254 p. : diagr. ; 21 cm. ISBN 9783905794137 sign.: RAN-6-8-TROO-1 Trefw.: paranormale wezens, engelen, gezondheid, genezingen, esoterie, rozenkruisers, Max Heindel, beschermengelen =20 Troost, A. Heile Dich selbst =FCber die Astro-Diagnose : eine neue Deutungsmethode f= =FCr die selbst=E4ndige astrologische Charakter und Gesundheitsastrologie Annemarie Troost. - 1. Aufl. - Sils Maria : Heile Dich Selbst Verlag, 2008. - 483 p. : diagr. ; 22 cm.. - Literaturhinweise. ISBN 978390614485 sign.: RAN-7-5-TROO-1 Trefw.: astrologie, gezondheid, medische astrologie, astro-diagnose, karakter, horoscopen =20 Verenigingsnieuws Verenigingsnieuws: Vooraankondiging Naarden, 27-30 augustus 2009, Steps to spiritual realisation In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (april), p. 86. theosofie, spiritualiteit, dualisme, moraal, intellect, liefde =20 Aan alle leden van deze mailinglist, Hier een lijst van nieuwe boeken en artikelen uit de catalogus van de Theosofische Bibliotheek te Amsterdam. In deze lijst staan ook een aantal oudere uitgaven, die verkregen zijn via legaten en schenkingen, maar waardevol en interessant genoeg zijn om aan onze collectie te worden toegevoegd. Na elke titelbeschrijving kunt u een paar trefwoorden vinden. D= e titels zijn gesorteerd op auteur en zijn bijna allemaal uitleenbaar. Ook kunt u deze boeken aanvragen via Interbibliothecair Leenverkeer (IBL), bij uw dichtsbijzijnde openbare bibliotheek. Om je lidmaatschap van deze mailinglist op te zeggen, of om e-mail adressen toe te voegen e-mail naar: bibliotheek@theosofie.nl Ons adres: Tolstraat 154, 1074 VM, Amsterdam, Tel.: 020-6765672, Internet: www.theosofie.nl =20 =20 =20 To all members of this mailinglist, This is a list of new books and articles from the catalogue of the Theosophical Library in Amsterdam (The Netherlands). In this list are also some older publications, obtained by legacies or donations, which are valuable and interesting enough to add to our collection. After each description you can find some keywords (in Dutch). The titles are sorted by author and almost all are on loan. You can also borrow these books by way o= f Interbibliothecair Leenverkeer (IBL), which is available at a public librar= y near you. To unsubscribe your membership of this mailinglist or to add e-mail addresses please send an e-mail to: bibliotheek@theosofie.nl" Our address: Tolstraat 154, 1074 VM, Amsterdam, The Netherlands Tel.: 020-6765672, Internet: www.theosofie.nl =20 =20 Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards Renger Dijkstra, bibliothecaris / librarian =20 =20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From r.dijkstra@quicknet.nl Tue Sep 01 13:23:25 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: r.dijkstra@quicknet.nl X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 71166 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2009 20:23:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2009 20:23:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO smtpq1.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net) (212.54.42.164) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2009 20:23:19 -0000 X-Received: from [212.54.42.135] (helo=smtp4.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net) by smtpq1.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MiZss-0007xx-WA; Tue, 01 Sep 2009 22:23:19 +0200 X-Received: from 213-73-130-179.cable.quicknet.nl ([213.73.130.179] helo=uw6rspzydfvpyj) by smtp4.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MiZsq-0006zf-TC; Tue, 01 Sep 2009 22:23:17 +0200 To: "Renger Dijkstra" Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 22:23:21 +0200 Message-ID: <012b01ca2b42$0ce4fd50$26aef7f0$@dijkstra@quicknet.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AcorQgyibIVIQrc8SW+XVwJNwAB+Sg== Content-Language: nl X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-ID: 1MiZsq-0006zf-TC X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-SpamCheck: geen spam, SpamAssassin (niet cached, score=0.961, vereist 5, ALL_TRUSTED -1.80, BAYES_00 -2.60, FRT_COCK 1.59, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00, MSGID_MULTIPLE_AT 1.45, TVD_RCVD_IP 1.93, TW_IJ 0.08, TW_JC 0.08, TW_JK 0.08, TW_JZ 0.08, TW_WK 0.08) X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-From: r.dijkstra@quicknet.nl X-Spam-Status: No X-Originating-IP: 212.54.42.164 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Renger Dijkstra" Subject: Acquisitions july-august 2009 Theosophical Library Amsterdam X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=53711327; y=UY3_8odcdTthCvqb-3w8Fdsr6gvVqcEJHWfT8vZZGnwH_sLXCfRrdpQF X-Yahoo-Profile: renger_dijkstra Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52788 Aanwinsten juli-augustus 2009 / Acquisitions july-august 2009 =20 Nieuwe boeken en artikelen in de Theosofische Bibliotheek Amsterdam New books and articles in the Theosophical Library Amsterdam, The Netherlands Search by yourself in our catalogue with more than 25.000 books and 93.000 articles on theosophy, religion and esotericism at: http://www.theosofie.nl/bibliotheek/index.htm =20 Met vriendelijke groet, with kind regards Renger Dijkstra, bibliothecaris, librarian =20 Ashokananda, S. Advaita en het monisme in de vedanta in de woorden van swami Ashokananda ; Ramakrishna Orde van India ; [vert. uit het Engels: Andr=E9 van den Brink]. - Amsterdam : Gopher, 2008. - 16 p= . ; 21 cm. sign.: REL-11-6-ASHO-1 Trefw.: religie, hindoe=EFsme, vedanta, advaita vedanta, spiritualiteit =20 Blavatsky, H.P. Kosmische evolutie : in zeven stanza's, vertaald uit het Boek van Dzyan : stanza IV / 9uit H.P. Blavatsky, De Geheime Leer, deel I, Het ontstaan van de kosmos, Theosophical University Press) In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (augustus), p. 144-145. theosofie, kosmische evolutie, stanza's =20 Boer, I. de De stem van de stilte : de wereld achter het werk deel I / Ingmar de Boer In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (augustus), p. 146-152. theosofie, De stem van de Stilte, commentaren =20 Bont, M.H. de Spiritisme versus mysticisme : de Rozekruis Orde A.M.O.R.C. verhandeling door M.H. de Bont. - 's-Gravenhage : AMORC-Nederland, 19XX. - 19 p. ; 21 cm. - (AMORC-Akademie ; 17)=20 sign.: ESO-5-2-BONT-1 Trefw.: esoterie, rozenkruisers, AMORC, spiritisme, mystiek =20 Burnier, R. Krishnamurti en de theosofie / R. Burnier en P. Krishna ; vert. [uit het Engels] A.M.I. In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (augustus), p. 135-143. theosofie, J. Krishnamurti =20 Gordon, J.S. Egypt, child of Atlantis : a radical interpretation of the origins of civilization : Cosmic seasons and astronomical cycles -- Geological, geographical, and climatological issues -- The disappearing "Atlantes" -- The appearance of culture and civilization -- Egyptian magic and the law of hierarchy -- Two mystery traditions reconsidered -- Gods of the abyss and underworld -- The ancient esoteric division of Egypt and the significance o= f its major temples -- Completing the "jigsaw puzzle" of astronomical metaphors and allegories -- Sacred geometry and the "living" architecture o= f Egypt -- The esoteric significance of the sphinx and pyramids -- The internal geometry of the great pyramid -- Reflections=20 John Gordon . - Rochester, Vt : Bear and Co, 2004. - x, 294 p. : ill. ; 26 cm. Originally published: Land of the fallen star gods. England : Orpheus Pub. House, 1997. - notes, glossary, bibliography, index. ISBN 9781591430230 sign.: RAN-8-2-GORD-2 Trefw.: religie, Egypte =20 Gout, M. Geometrie : modulaire co=F6rdinatie in de Middeleeuwen M. Gout. - [Delft] : [Technische Universiteit], [1987]. - 51 p. : ill. ; 2= 3 cm. sign.: RAN-4-3-GOUT-2 Trefw.: symboliek, symbolische meetkunde, geometrie, bouwkunst, kathedralen= , middeleeuwen =20 Gout, M. Geometrie in de tempel : de ma=E7onnieke bouwsymboliek verklaard aan de han= d van de kathedraal van Ami=EBns M. Gout ; [foto's: M.G. Gout ... et al. ; red.: J.A. den Ouden ; ill.: W.F. Veen]. - Gouda : De Steensplinter, 2009. - 96 p. : ill. ; 24 cm. - (Kubusreeks ; 11)=20 ISBN 9789057170263 sign.: ESO-4-4-GOUT-2 Trefw.: esoterie, vrijmetselarij, religieuze bouwkunst, geometrie, symbolische meetkunde, kathedralen, Ami=EBns, architectuur =20 Haak, D. van den Het Gods-begrip van Spinoza : lezing gehouden voor de Rozekruisers-Akademie door D. van den Haak. - 's-Gravenhage : AMORC-Nederland, 19XX. - 27 p. ; 2= 1 cm. - (AMORC-Akademie ; 43)=20 sign.: ESO-5-2-HAAK-1 Trefw.: esoterie, rozenkruisers, AMORC, godsbegrip, Spinoza =20 Hafiz Verzen uit de Schrift van het Hart Hafiz ; gesel. en vert. [uit het Engels naar de oorspr. Perzische uitg.] door Wim van der Zwan. - Deventer : Ankh-Hermes, cop. 2000. - 110 p. ; 18 cm. - (Ori=EBnt-serie) . - bibliografie. ISBN 9020219685 sign.: ESO-12-2-HAFI-1 Trefw.: esoterie, soefisme, mystiek, liefde, gedichten, filosofie =20 Hanegraaff, W.J. Hermes in the Academy : ten years' study of westen esotericism at the University of Amsterdam : Part 1 History of hermetic philosophy and related currents : origins and development: The birth of a chair / Roelof van den Broeck. Ten years of studying and teaching western esotericism / Wouter J. Hanegraaff ; Part 2 Glimpses of research: The pagan who come from the east: George Gemistos Plethon and platonic orientalism / Wouter J. Hanegraaff. Astrologia hermetica: astrology, western culture, and the Academy / Kocku von Stuckrad. The modernity of occultisme: reflections on some crucial aspects / Marco Pasi. Mathematical esotericism: some perspectives on renaissance arithmology ; Jeane-Pierre Brach. Danish esotericism in the 20t= h century: the case of Martinus / Olav Hammer ; Part 3 Studying western esotericism in Amsterdam: On first looking into the Halls of Hermeticism / Marieke J.E. van den Doel. An unlikely love affair: Plato, the Netherlands, and life after westotericism / Dylan Burns. Heterology in Amsterdam: the Academy takes the other out to dinner / Osvald Vasicek. The Copenhagen connection / Sara Moldrup Theils. If you seek / Susannah Crockford ; Part 4 Western esotericism in international perpective: From "the hermetic tradion= " to "western esotericism"/ Allison Coudert. From Paris to Amsterdam and beyond: origins and development of a collaboration / Antoine Faivre. Wester= n esotericism in the United Kingdom / Nicholas Goodrick-Clark. From talk abou= t esotericism to esotericism research: remarks on the prehistory and development of a Research Group / Monika Neugebauer-W=F6lk. Seven epistemological theses on esotericism: upon the occasion of the 10th anniversary of the Amsterdam Chair / Andreas Kilcher. Hermes and his students in Amsterdam / Joyce Pijnenburg ed. Wouter J. Hanegraaff and Joyce Pijnenburg ; preface Jos=E9 van Dijck ; Roelof van den Broeck ; Kocku von Stuckrad ; Marco Pasi ; Jeane-Pierre Brac= h ; Olav Hammer ; Marieke J.E. van den Doel ; Dylan Burns ; Osvald Vasicek ; Sara Moldrup Theils ; Susannah Crockford ; Allison Coudert ; Antoine Faivre ; Nicholas Goodrick-Clark ; Monika Neugebauer-W=F6lk ; Andreas Kilcher . - Amsterdam : Amsterdam University Press, 2009. - 163 p. : ill. ; 24 cm.. - notes, bibliography, register. ISBN 9789056295721 sign.: ESO-1-1-HANE-6 Trefw.: esoterie, westerse esoterie, hermetische filosofie, studies, geschiedenis, Universiteit van Amsterdam, GHF, paganisme, occultisme, hermetica, jubileumuitgaven, theosofie =20 Huijs, P.W.F. Geroepen door het wereldhart : een beschouwing over het ontstaan en de ontwikkeling van de Geestesschool van het Gouden Rozenkruis en haar stichters J. van Rijckenborgh en Catharose de Petri=20 door Peter Huijs ; [red.: Kees Bode ... et al. ; eindred.: Mirjam Duivenvoorden ; fotogr.: Foto-archief E.T. Hamelink ... et al.]. - Haarlem = : Rozekruis Pers, cop. 2009. - 455 p. : ill. ; 23 cm.. - algemene bibliografie, bibliografie, register. ISBN 9789067323406 sign.: ESO-5-4-HUIJ-1 Trefw.: esoterie, rozenkruisers, Jan van Rijckenborgh, Catharose de Petri, geschiedenis, filosofie, Lectorium Rosicrucianum, religie, gnosticisme =20 Idee De idee achter de schepping Haarlem : Het Rozekruisers Genootschap, 19XX. - 11 p. ; 20 cm. sign.: ESO-5-4-IDEE-1 Trefw.: rozenkruisers, schepping =20 Ierlant, F. van Wie was... Jiddu Krishnamurti : 1895-1986 / FvI In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (augustus), p. 169-172. theosofie, J. Krishnamurti =20 Jayaprakash, A. Spiritualiteit : een levenswijze / A. Jayaprakash ; vert. [uit het Engels] A.M.I. In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (augustus), p. 165-168. theosofie, spiritualiteit =20 Kriyananda, G. Kriya-yoga : werk- en oefenboek Goswami Kriyananda ; [vert. uit het Engels: Jacqueline Moonen]. - Deventer = : Ankh-Hermes, cop. 1994. - 361 p. : ill. ; 22 cm. Vert. van: The spiritual science of kriya yoga. - Chicago : The Temple of Kriya Yoga, 1992. - register. ISBN 9020251597 sign.: REL-11-8-KRIY-1 Trefw.: religie, hindoe=EFsme, yoga, kriya-yoga, spiritualiteit, verlichtin= g, reinigingstechnieken, concentratie, meditatie, contemplatie, asana's, ontspanningshoudingen, chakra's, hamsa-kriyatechnieken =20 Laroche, J.-P. Proph=E9ties pour temps de crise : interpr=E9tations de Nostradamus au fil = des si=E8cles : (Fonds Michel Chomarat de la Biblioth=E8que municipale de Lyon)= : [exposition], Salon-de-Provence, Ch=E2teau de l'Emp=E9ri, 14 juin - 21 sept= embre 2003=20 catalogue redig=E9 par Jean-Paul Laroche. - Lyon : Editions Michel Chomarat= , 2003. - 155 p. : ill. ; 24 cm.. - bibliographie, index des noms cit=E9s. ISBN 2908185539 sign.: RAN-6-15-LARO-1 Trefw.: Nostradamus, voorspellingen, tentoonstellingscatalogi =20 Leene, M. Mijn steen, mijn leermeester Mia Leene ; met ill. van Thalia ter Kuile. - Haarlem : Ercee, cop. 1983. - 161 p. : ill. ; 21 cm.. - bibliografie. sign.: ESO-5-6-LEEN-17 Trefw.: esoterie, rozenkruisers, edelstenen, kosmische krachten, occultisme= , gezondheid, mystiek =20 Leroy, E. Nostradamus : ses origines, sa vie, son oeuvre=20 Edgar Leroy ; pr=E9face Sylvain Gagni=E8re. - r=E9impression de l'=E9dition= de Bergerac 1972. - [Marseille] : Laffite Reprints, cop. 1993. - ix, 198 p. : ill. ; 25 cm.. - notes. ISBN 2862762318 sign.: RAN-6-15-LERO-1 Trefw.: Nostradamus, voorspellingen, biografie=EBn =20 Lommel, W. van Een bijna-doodervaring, en hoe verder? W. van Lommel. - 2e dr. - Loosdrecht : I.A.N.D.S. Nederland ; Stichting Merkawah, 1994. - 28 p. ; 24 cm.. - literatuur. sign.: RAN-3-7-LOMM-2 Trefw.: ervaringen met de dood, BDE, bijna-dood ervaringen, dood, onderzoek =20 Macht De macht van het niet-doen Haarlem : Rozekruis-Pers, 19XX. - 12 p. ; 21 cm. sign.: ESO-5-4-MACH-1 Trefw.: esoterie, rozenkruisers, niet-doen, woe-wei, religie, chinese godsdiensten =20 Pennick, N. Sacrale geometrie : verborgen lijnen in de bouwkunst=20 Nigel Pennick ; de Nederlandse uitg. in samenw. met en aangevuld door: M. Gout ; eindred. & bew.: M. Gout ; [vert. uit het Engels: Wouter Hekkelman]. - Den Haag : Synthese, 2004. - 222 p. : ill. ; 22 cm. Vert. van: Sacred geometry. - Wellingborough, Northamptonshire : Turnstone, cop. 1999. - verklarende woordenlijst. ISBN 906271952X sign.: RAN-4-3-PENN-1 Trefw.: symboliek, symbolische meetkunde, sacrale geometrie, bouwkunst, geschiedenis, Engeland, Egypte, Mesopotami=EB, Griekenland, Vitruvius, Magistri Comanchini, middeleeuwen, mysteri=EBn, Renaissance, Barok, wetensc= hap =20 Plannen Plannen voor aanbouw weg over terrein Adyar In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (augustus), p. 173. theosofie, Adyar =20 Rao, S.K.R. Tantra, mantra, yantra : the tantra psychology S.K. Ramachandra Rao. - New Delhi : Arnold-Heinemann, 1975. - 79 p., [4] leaves of plates. : ill. ; 24 cm.. - references. sign.: REL-11-15-RAO-1 Trefw.: religie, hindoe=EFsme, boeddhisme, tantra, mantra, yantra, psycholo= gie =20 Ratanasuwan, P. Buddha vidya (buddhology) by Phorn Ratanasuwan ; translator: Siri Buddhasukh. - Bangkok, Thailand : Home of Psychical Research, 1983. - A-H, 455, 140 p. ; 25 cm. Translation of: Phutthawitthaya. - index. sign.: REL-12-1-RATA-1 Trefw.: religie, boeddhisme =20 Rijneker, E. Leven na leven / Els Rijneker In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (augustus), p. 161-164. theosofie, leven en dood, onsterfelijkheid =20 Rozekruisers De Rozekruisers onthullen hun geheim de Opperste Raad van de Rozekruisers Orde AMORC ; [vert. uit het Frans] . - Leeuwarden : Elikser, 2008. - 251 p. : ill. ; 21 cm. Vert. van: Les Rose-Croix l=E8vent le secret. - Paris : Lanore, 2008 ISBN 9789089540706 sign.: ESO-5-2-ROZE-1 Trefw.: esoterie, rozekruisers, AMORC, spiritualiteit, materie, bewustzijn, leven, symboliek, filosofie, gezondheid, ziel, psyche, geest, ziel, wonderen, Jezus, tempeliers, evolutie, alchemie, sterrenkunde, manifesten, goed en kwaad, geluk, God, geneeskunde, Egypte, natuurkunde, wetenschap, humanisme, geschiedenis =20 Ruusbroec, J. van De geestelijke bruiloft Jan van Ruusbroec ; en ingel. door Guido de Baere ; vert. [uit het Middelnederlands] door Jos van den Hoek. - 1e dr. - 's-Hertogenbosch [etc.] : KBS, 2008. - 213 p. ; 22 cm. Vert. van: Die chierheit der gheestelicker brulocht ISBN 9789061731108 sign.: REL-6-6-RUUS-2a Trefw.: religie, christendom, mystiek, spiritualiteit, christelijke mystiek= , Jan van Ruusbroec, middeleeuws christendom, religieuze ervaring =20 Safran, A. Wisdom of the kabbalah Alexandre Safran ; translated from the French by E.M. Sandle. - Jerusalem ; New York : Feldheim, 1991. - [9], 230 p. ; 24 cm. Vert. van: Sagesse de la Kabbale. - Paris : Stock, 1986. - glossary. ISBN 0873065824 sign.: ESO-7-1-SAFR-3 Trefw.: esoterie, kabbala, wijsheid, mystiek, joodse mystiek, religie, geschiedenis =20 Smit, P.J. Bewustzijn voorbij de grenzen : bijna-doodervaringen in perspectief, deel 2 / Peter J. Smit In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (augustus), p. 153-160. theosofie, bewustzijn, BDE =20 Steiner, R. Apocalypse en priesterschap Rudolf Steiner ; met een naw. van Wolf-Ulrich Kl=FCnker ; [vert. naw. Jelle van der Schuit ; ill. Rudolf Steiner] ; vert. [uit het Duits] door Hylcke Brandts Buys. - Zeist : Vrij Geestesleven, cop. 2005. - 340 p., [16] p. ill. : ill. ; 21 cm. - (Werken en voordrachten / Rudolf Steiner ; Werkterreinen van de antroposofie/Religie ; m1)=20 Vert. van: Apokalypse und Priesterwerken. - Dornach : Rudolf Steiner Verlag= , 1995. - (Rudolf Steiner Gesamtausgabe ; nr. 346). - aantekeningen, bibliografie, levensoverzicht. ISBN 9060385500 sign.: ESO-9-4-STEI-90 Trefw.: esoterie, antroposofie, Einde der tijden, apocalypse, priesterschap= , Openbaring van Johannes, filosofie =20 Troost, A. Heile Dich selbst mit Bachbl=FCten : warum geben die Bachbl=FCten seelische= s Wachstum und Gesundheit? Annemarie Troost. - 1. Aufl. - Sils Maria : Rosenkreuzer Philosophie Verlag= , 2006. - 330 p. : diagr. ; 22 cm.. - Literaturhinweise. ISBN 9783906414478 sign.: RAN-5-1-TROO-1 Trefw.: gezondheid, bachbloesemtherapie, esoterie, rozenkruisers, Max Heindel =20 Troost, A. Heile Dich selbst mit den Engeln : ein wahrhaft geistiges Heilbuch Annemarie Troost. - 1. Aufl. - Sils Maria : Heile Dich Selbst Verlag, 2008. - 254 p. : diagr. ; 21 cm. ISBN 9783905794137 sign.: RAN-6-8-TROO-1 Trefw.: paranormale wezens, engelen, gezondheid, genezingen, esoterie, rozenkruisers, Max Heindel, beschermengelen =20 Troost, A. Heile Dich selbst =FCber die Astro-Diagnose : eine neue Deutungsmethode f= =FCr die selbst=E4ndige astrologische Charakter und Gesundheitsastrologie Annemarie Troost. - 1. Aufl. - Sils Maria : Heile Dich Selbst Verlag, 2008. - 483 p. : diagr. ; 22 cm.. - Literaturhinweise. ISBN 978390614485 sign.: RAN-7-5-TROO-1 Trefw.: astrologie, gezondheid, medische astrologie, astro-diagnose, karakter, horoscopen =20 Verenigingsnieuws Verenigingsnieuws: Vooraankondiging Naarden, 27-30 augustus 2009, Steps to spiritual realisation In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (april), p. 86. theosofie, spiritualiteit, dualisme, moraal, intellect, liefde =20 Aan alle leden van deze mailinglist, Hier een lijst van nieuwe boeken en artikelen uit de catalogus van de Theosofische Bibliotheek te Amsterdam. In deze lijst staan ook een aantal oudere uitgaven, die verkregen zijn via legaten en schenkingen, maar waardevol en interessant genoeg zijn om aan onze collectie te worden toegevoegd. Na elke titelbeschrijving kunt u een paar trefwoorden vinden. D= e titels zijn gesorteerd op auteur en zijn bijna allemaal uitleenbaar. Ook kunt u deze boeken aanvragen via Interbibliothecair Leenverkeer (IBL), bij uw dichtsbijzijnde openbare bibliotheek. Om je lidmaatschap van deze mailinglist op te zeggen, of om e-mail adressen toe te voegen e-mail naar: bibliotheek@theosofie.nl Ons adres: Tolstraat 154, 1074 VM, Amsterdam, Tel.: 020-6765672, Internet: www.theosofie.nl =20 =20 =20 To all members of this mailinglist, This is a list of new books and articles from the catalogue of the Theosophical Library in Amsterdam (The Netherlands). In this list are also some older publications, obtained by legacies or donations, which are valuable and interesting enough to add to our collection. After each description you can find some keywords (in Dutch). The titles are sorted by author and almost all are on loan. You can also borrow these books by way o= f Interbibliothecair Leenverkeer (IBL), which is available at a public librar= y near you. To unsubscribe your membership of this mailinglist or to add e-mail addresses please send an e-mail to: bibliotheek@theosofie.nl" Our address: Tolstraat 154, 1074 VM, Amsterdam, The Netherlands Tel.: 020-6765672, Internet: www.theosofie.nl =20 =20 Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards Renger Dijkstra, bibliothecaris / librarian =20 =20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From r.dijkstra@quicknet.nl Tue Sep 01 13:25:25 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: r.dijkstra@quicknet.nl X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 75175 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2009 20:25:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2009 20:25:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO smtpq2.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net) (212.54.42.165) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2009 20:25:24 -0000 X-Received: from [212.54.42.135] (helo=smtp4.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net) by smtpq2.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MiZuk-0002po-O6; Tue, 01 Sep 2009 22:25:14 +0200 X-Received: from 213-73-130-179.cable.quicknet.nl ([213.73.130.179] helo=uw6rspzydfvpyj) by smtp4.tb.mail.iss.as9143.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MiZui-0008FU-PI; Tue, 01 Sep 2009 22:25:13 +0200 To: "Renger Dijkstra" Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 22:25:17 +0200 Message-ID: <013a01ca2b42$51f61c80$f5e25580$@dijkstra@quicknet.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AcorQlGzjmfq6Y0EQ5iEvut0udY8uQ== Content-Language: nl X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-ID: 1MiZui-0008FU-PI X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-SpamCheck: geen spam, SpamAssassin (niet cached, score=0.961, vereist 5, ALL_TRUSTED -1.80, BAYES_00 -2.60, FRT_COCK 1.59, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00, MSGID_MULTIPLE_AT 1.45, TVD_RCVD_IP 1.93, TW_IJ 0.08, TW_JC 0.08, TW_JK 0.08, TW_JZ 0.08, TW_WK 0.08) X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-From: r.dijkstra@quicknet.nl X-Spam-Status: No X-Originating-IP: 212.54.42.165 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Renger Dijkstra" Subject: Acquisitions july-august 2009 Theosophical Library Amsterdam X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=53711327; y=ihCszPGDbtkmcZ31LF2jcJfM7UEuSIQ7JmZR7gILCz-ONps7UUvzidus X-Yahoo-Profile: renger_dijkstra Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52789 Aanwinsten juli-augustus 2009 / Acquisitions july-august 2009 =20 Nieuwe boeken en artikelen in de Theosofische Bibliotheek Amsterdam New books and articles in the Theosophical Library Amsterdam, The Netherlands Search by yourself in our catalogue with more than 25.000 books and 93.000 articles on theosophy, religion and esotericism at: http://www.theosofie.nl/bibliotheek/index.htm =20 Met vriendelijke groet, with kind regards Renger Dijkstra, bibliothecaris, librarian =20 Ashokananda, S. Advaita en het monisme in de vedanta in de woorden van swami Ashokananda ; Ramakrishna Orde van India ; [vert. uit het Engels: Andr=E9 van den Brink]. - Amsterdam : Gopher, 2008. - 16 p= . ; 21 cm. sign.: REL-11-6-ASHO-1 Trefw.: religie, hindoe=EFsme, vedanta, advaita vedanta, spiritualiteit =20 Blavatsky, H.P. Kosmische evolutie : in zeven stanza's, vertaald uit het Boek van Dzyan : stanza IV / 9uit H.P. Blavatsky, De Geheime Leer, deel I, Het ontstaan van de kosmos, Theosophical University Press) In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (augustus), p. 144-145. theosofie, kosmische evolutie, stanza's =20 Boer, I. de De stem van de stilte : de wereld achter het werk deel I / Ingmar de Boer In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (augustus), p. 146-152. theosofie, De stem van de Stilte, commentaren =20 Bont, M.H. de Spiritisme versus mysticisme : de Rozekruis Orde A.M.O.R.C. verhandeling door M.H. de Bont. - 's-Gravenhage : AMORC-Nederland, 19XX. - 19 p. ; 21 cm. - (AMORC-Akademie ; 17)=20 sign.: ESO-5-2-BONT-1 Trefw.: esoterie, rozenkruisers, AMORC, spiritisme, mystiek =20 Burnier, R. Krishnamurti en de theosofie / R. Burnier en P. Krishna ; vert. [uit het Engels] A.M.I. In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (augustus), p. 135-143. theosofie, J. Krishnamurti =20 Gordon, J.S. Egypt, child of Atlantis : a radical interpretation of the origins of civilization : Cosmic seasons and astronomical cycles -- Geological, geographical, and climatological issues -- The disappearing "Atlantes" -- The appearance of culture and civilization -- Egyptian magic and the law of hierarchy -- Two mystery traditions reconsidered -- Gods of the abyss and underworld -- The ancient esoteric division of Egypt and the significance o= f its major temples -- Completing the "jigsaw puzzle" of astronomical metaphors and allegories -- Sacred geometry and the "living" architecture o= f Egypt -- The esoteric significance of the sphinx and pyramids -- The internal geometry of the great pyramid -- Reflections=20 John Gordon . - Rochester, Vt : Bear and Co, 2004. - x, 294 p. : ill. ; 26 cm. Originally published: Land of the fallen star gods. England : Orpheus Pub. House, 1997. - notes, glossary, bibliography, index. ISBN 9781591430230 sign.: RAN-8-2-GORD-2 Trefw.: religie, Egypte =20 Gout, M. Geometrie : modulaire co=F6rdinatie in de Middeleeuwen M. Gout. - [Delft] : [Technische Universiteit], [1987]. - 51 p. : ill. ; 2= 3 cm. sign.: RAN-4-3-GOUT-2 Trefw.: symboliek, symbolische meetkunde, geometrie, bouwkunst, kathedralen= , middeleeuwen =20 Gout, M. Geometrie in de tempel : de ma=E7onnieke bouwsymboliek verklaard aan de han= d van de kathedraal van Ami=EBns M. Gout ; [foto's: M.G. Gout ... et al. ; red.: J.A. den Ouden ; ill.: W.F. Veen]. - Gouda : De Steensplinter, 2009. - 96 p. : ill. ; 24 cm. - (Kubusreeks ; 11)=20 ISBN 9789057170263 sign.: ESO-4-4-GOUT-2 Trefw.: esoterie, vrijmetselarij, religieuze bouwkunst, geometrie, symbolische meetkunde, kathedralen, Ami=EBns, architectuur =20 Haak, D. van den Het Gods-begrip van Spinoza : lezing gehouden voor de Rozekruisers-Akademie door D. van den Haak. - 's-Gravenhage : AMORC-Nederland, 19XX. - 27 p. ; 2= 1 cm. - (AMORC-Akademie ; 43)=20 sign.: ESO-5-2-HAAK-1 Trefw.: esoterie, rozenkruisers, AMORC, godsbegrip, Spinoza =20 Hafiz Verzen uit de Schrift van het Hart Hafiz ; gesel. en vert. [uit het Engels naar de oorspr. Perzische uitg.] door Wim van der Zwan. - Deventer : Ankh-Hermes, cop. 2000. - 110 p. ; 18 cm. - (Ori=EBnt-serie) . - bibliografie. ISBN 9020219685 sign.: ESO-12-2-HAFI-1 Trefw.: esoterie, soefisme, mystiek, liefde, gedichten, filosofie =20 Hanegraaff, W.J. Hermes in the Academy : ten years' study of westen esotericism at the University of Amsterdam : Part 1 History of hermetic philosophy and related currents : origins and development: The birth of a chair / Roelof van den Broeck. Ten years of studying and teaching western esotericism / Wouter J. Hanegraaff ; Part 2 Glimpses of research: The pagan who come from the east: George Gemistos Plethon and platonic orientalism / Wouter J. Hanegraaff. Astrologia hermetica: astrology, western culture, and the Academy / Kocku von Stuckrad. The modernity of occultisme: reflections on some crucial aspects / Marco Pasi. Mathematical esotericism: some perspectives on renaissance arithmology ; Jeane-Pierre Brach. Danish esotericism in the 20t= h century: the case of Martinus / Olav Hammer ; Part 3 Studying western esotericism in Amsterdam: On first looking into the Halls of Hermeticism / Marieke J.E. van den Doel. An unlikely love affair: Plato, the Netherlands, and life after westotericism / Dylan Burns. Heterology in Amsterdam: the Academy takes the other out to dinner / Osvald Vasicek. The Copenhagen connection / Sara Moldrup Theils. If you seek / Susannah Crockford ; Part 4 Western esotericism in international perpective: From "the hermetic tradion= " to "western esotericism"/ Allison Coudert. From Paris to Amsterdam and beyond: origins and development of a collaboration / Antoine Faivre. Wester= n esotericism in the United Kingdom / Nicholas Goodrick-Clark. From talk abou= t esotericism to esotericism research: remarks on the prehistory and development of a Research Group / Monika Neugebauer-W=F6lk. Seven epistemological theses on esotericism: upon the occasion of the 10th anniversary of the Amsterdam Chair / Andreas Kilcher. Hermes and his students in Amsterdam / Joyce Pijnenburg ed. Wouter J. Hanegraaff and Joyce Pijnenburg ; preface Jos=E9 van Dijck ; Roelof van den Broeck ; Kocku von Stuckrad ; Marco Pasi ; Jeane-Pierre Brac= h ; Olav Hammer ; Marieke J.E. van den Doel ; Dylan Burns ; Osvald Vasicek ; Sara Moldrup Theils ; Susannah Crockford ; Allison Coudert ; Antoine Faivre ; Nicholas Goodrick-Clark ; Monika Neugebauer-W=F6lk ; Andreas Kilcher . - Amsterdam : Amsterdam University Press, 2009. - 163 p. : ill. ; 24 cm.. - notes, bibliography, register. ISBN 9789056295721 sign.: ESO-1-1-HANE-6 Trefw.: esoterie, westerse esoterie, hermetische filosofie, studies, geschiedenis, Universiteit van Amsterdam, GHF, paganisme, occultisme, hermetica, jubileumuitgaven, theosofie =20 Huijs, P.W.F. Geroepen door het wereldhart : een beschouwing over het ontstaan en de ontwikkeling van de Geestesschool van het Gouden Rozenkruis en haar stichters J. van Rijckenborgh en Catharose de Petri=20 door Peter Huijs ; [red.: Kees Bode ... et al. ; eindred.: Mirjam Duivenvoorden ; fotogr.: Foto-archief E.T. Hamelink ... et al.]. - Haarlem = : Rozekruis Pers, cop. 2009. - 455 p. : ill. ; 23 cm.. - algemene bibliografie, bibliografie, register. ISBN 9789067323406 sign.: ESO-5-4-HUIJ-1 Trefw.: esoterie, rozenkruisers, Jan van Rijckenborgh, Catharose de Petri, geschiedenis, filosofie, Lectorium Rosicrucianum, religie, gnosticisme =20 Idee De idee achter de schepping Haarlem : Het Rozekruisers Genootschap, 19XX. - 11 p. ; 20 cm. sign.: ESO-5-4-IDEE-1 Trefw.: rozenkruisers, schepping =20 Ierlant, F. van Wie was... Jiddu Krishnamurti : 1895-1986 / FvI In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (augustus), p. 169-172. theosofie, J. Krishnamurti =20 Jayaprakash, A. Spiritualiteit : een levenswijze / A. Jayaprakash ; vert. [uit het Engels] A.M.I. In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (augustus), p. 165-168. theosofie, spiritualiteit =20 Kriyananda, G. Kriya-yoga : werk- en oefenboek Goswami Kriyananda ; [vert. uit het Engels: Jacqueline Moonen]. - Deventer = : Ankh-Hermes, cop. 1994. - 361 p. : ill. ; 22 cm. Vert. van: The spiritual science of kriya yoga. - Chicago : The Temple of Kriya Yoga, 1992. - register. ISBN 9020251597 sign.: REL-11-8-KRIY-1 Trefw.: religie, hindoe=EFsme, yoga, kriya-yoga, spiritualiteit, verlichtin= g, reinigingstechnieken, concentratie, meditatie, contemplatie, asana's, ontspanningshoudingen, chakra's, hamsa-kriyatechnieken =20 Laroche, J.-P. Proph=E9ties pour temps de crise : interpr=E9tations de Nostradamus au fil = des si=E8cles : (Fonds Michel Chomarat de la Biblioth=E8que municipale de Lyon)= : [exposition], Salon-de-Provence, Ch=E2teau de l'Emp=E9ri, 14 juin - 21 sept= embre 2003=20 catalogue redig=E9 par Jean-Paul Laroche. - Lyon : Editions Michel Chomarat= , 2003. - 155 p. : ill. ; 24 cm.. - bibliographie, index des noms cit=E9s. ISBN 2908185539 sign.: RAN-6-15-LARO-1 Trefw.: Nostradamus, voorspellingen, tentoonstellingscatalogi =20 Leene, M. Mijn steen, mijn leermeester Mia Leene ; met ill. van Thalia ter Kuile. - Haarlem : Ercee, cop. 1983. - 161 p. : ill. ; 21 cm.. - bibliografie. sign.: ESO-5-6-LEEN-17 Trefw.: esoterie, rozenkruisers, edelstenen, kosmische krachten, occultisme= , gezondheid, mystiek =20 Leroy, E. Nostradamus : ses origines, sa vie, son oeuvre=20 Edgar Leroy ; pr=E9face Sylvain Gagni=E8re. - r=E9impression de l'=E9dition= de Bergerac 1972. - [Marseille] : Laffite Reprints, cop. 1993. - ix, 198 p. : ill. ; 25 cm.. - notes. ISBN 2862762318 sign.: RAN-6-15-LERO-1 Trefw.: Nostradamus, voorspellingen, biografie=EBn =20 Lommel, W. van Een bijna-doodervaring, en hoe verder? W. van Lommel. - 2e dr. - Loosdrecht : I.A.N.D.S. Nederland ; Stichting Merkawah, 1994. - 28 p. ; 24 cm.. - literatuur. sign.: RAN-3-7-LOMM-2 Trefw.: ervaringen met de dood, BDE, bijna-dood ervaringen, dood, onderzoek =20 Macht De macht van het niet-doen Haarlem : Rozekruis-Pers, 19XX. - 12 p. ; 21 cm. sign.: ESO-5-4-MACH-1 Trefw.: esoterie, rozenkruisers, niet-doen, woe-wei, religie, chinese godsdiensten =20 Pennick, N. Sacrale geometrie : verborgen lijnen in de bouwkunst=20 Nigel Pennick ; de Nederlandse uitg. in samenw. met en aangevuld door: M. Gout ; eindred. & bew.: M. Gout ; [vert. uit het Engels: Wouter Hekkelman]. - Den Haag : Synthese, 2004. - 222 p. : ill. ; 22 cm. Vert. van: Sacred geometry. - Wellingborough, Northamptonshire : Turnstone, cop. 1999. - verklarende woordenlijst. ISBN 906271952X sign.: RAN-4-3-PENN-1 Trefw.: symboliek, symbolische meetkunde, sacrale geometrie, bouwkunst, geschiedenis, Engeland, Egypte, Mesopotami=EB, Griekenland, Vitruvius, Magistri Comanchini, middeleeuwen, mysteri=EBn, Renaissance, Barok, wetensc= hap =20 Plannen Plannen voor aanbouw weg over terrein Adyar In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (augustus), p. 173. theosofie, Adyar =20 Rao, S.K.R. Tantra, mantra, yantra : the tantra psychology S.K. Ramachandra Rao. - New Delhi : Arnold-Heinemann, 1975. - 79 p., [4] leaves of plates. : ill. ; 24 cm.. - references. sign.: REL-11-15-RAO-1 Trefw.: religie, hindoe=EFsme, boeddhisme, tantra, mantra, yantra, psycholo= gie =20 Ratanasuwan, P. Buddha vidya (buddhology) by Phorn Ratanasuwan ; translator: Siri Buddhasukh. - Bangkok, Thailand : Home of Psychical Research, 1983. - A-H, 455, 140 p. ; 25 cm. Translation of: Phutthawitthaya. - index. sign.: REL-12-1-RATA-1 Trefw.: religie, boeddhisme =20 Rijneker, E. Leven na leven / Els Rijneker In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (augustus), p. 161-164. theosofie, leven en dood, onsterfelijkheid =20 Rozekruisers De Rozekruisers onthullen hun geheim de Opperste Raad van de Rozekruisers Orde AMORC ; [vert. uit het Frans] . - Leeuwarden : Elikser, 2008. - 251 p. : ill. ; 21 cm. Vert. van: Les Rose-Croix l=E8vent le secret. - Paris : Lanore, 2008 ISBN 9789089540706 sign.: ESO-5-2-ROZE-1 Trefw.: esoterie, rozekruisers, AMORC, spiritualiteit, materie, bewustzijn, leven, symboliek, filosofie, gezondheid, ziel, psyche, geest, ziel, wonderen, Jezus, tempeliers, evolutie, alchemie, sterrenkunde, manifesten, goed en kwaad, geluk, God, geneeskunde, Egypte, natuurkunde, wetenschap, humanisme, geschiedenis =20 Ruusbroec, J. van De geestelijke bruiloft Jan van Ruusbroec ; en ingel. door Guido de Baere ; vert. [uit het Middelnederlands] door Jos van den Hoek. - 1e dr. - 's-Hertogenbosch [etc.] : KBS, 2008. - 213 p. ; 22 cm. Vert. van: Die chierheit der gheestelicker brulocht ISBN 9789061731108 sign.: REL-6-6-RUUS-2a Trefw.: religie, christendom, mystiek, spiritualiteit, christelijke mystiek= , Jan van Ruusbroec, middeleeuws christendom, religieuze ervaring =20 Safran, A. Wisdom of the kabbalah Alexandre Safran ; translated from the French by E.M. Sandle. - Jerusalem ; New York : Feldheim, 1991. - [9], 230 p. ; 24 cm. Vert. van: Sagesse de la Kabbale. - Paris : Stock, 1986. - glossary. ISBN 0873065824 sign.: ESO-7-1-SAFR-3 Trefw.: esoterie, kabbala, wijsheid, mystiek, joodse mystiek, religie, geschiedenis =20 Smit, P.J. Bewustzijn voorbij de grenzen : bijna-doodervaringen in perspectief, deel 2 / Peter J. Smit In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (augustus), p. 153-160. theosofie, bewustzijn, BDE =20 Steiner, R. Apocalypse en priesterschap Rudolf Steiner ; met een naw. van Wolf-Ulrich Kl=FCnker ; [vert. naw. Jelle van der Schuit ; ill. Rudolf Steiner] ; vert. [uit het Duits] door Hylcke Brandts Buys. - Zeist : Vrij Geestesleven, cop. 2005. - 340 p., [16] p. ill. : ill. ; 21 cm. - (Werken en voordrachten / Rudolf Steiner ; Werkterreinen van de antroposofie/Religie ; m1)=20 Vert. van: Apokalypse und Priesterwerken. - Dornach : Rudolf Steiner Verlag= , 1995. - (Rudolf Steiner Gesamtausgabe ; nr. 346). - aantekeningen, bibliografie, levensoverzicht. ISBN 9060385500 sign.: ESO-9-4-STEI-90 Trefw.: esoterie, antroposofie, Einde der tijden, apocalypse, priesterschap= , Openbaring van Johannes, filosofie =20 Troost, A. Heile Dich selbst mit Bachbl=FCten : warum geben die Bachbl=FCten seelische= s Wachstum und Gesundheit? Annemarie Troost. - 1. Aufl. - Sils Maria : Rosenkreuzer Philosophie Verlag= , 2006. - 330 p. : diagr. ; 22 cm.. - Literaturhinweise. ISBN 9783906414478 sign.: RAN-5-1-TROO-1 Trefw.: gezondheid, bachbloesemtherapie, esoterie, rozenkruisers, Max Heindel =20 Troost, A. Heile Dich selbst mit den Engeln : ein wahrhaft geistiges Heilbuch Annemarie Troost. - 1. Aufl. - Sils Maria : Heile Dich Selbst Verlag, 2008. - 254 p. : diagr. ; 21 cm. ISBN 9783905794137 sign.: RAN-6-8-TROO-1 Trefw.: paranormale wezens, engelen, gezondheid, genezingen, esoterie, rozenkruisers, Max Heindel, beschermengelen =20 Troost, A. Heile Dich selbst =FCber die Astro-Diagnose : eine neue Deutungsmethode f= =FCr die selbst=E4ndige astrologische Charakter und Gesundheitsastrologie Annemarie Troost. - 1. Aufl. - Sils Maria : Heile Dich Selbst Verlag, 2008. - 483 p. : diagr. ; 22 cm.. - Literaturhinweise. ISBN 978390614485 sign.: RAN-7-5-TROO-1 Trefw.: astrologie, gezondheid, medische astrologie, astro-diagnose, karakter, horoscopen =20 Verenigingsnieuws Verenigingsnieuws: Vooraankondiging Naarden, 27-30 augustus 2009, Steps to spiritual realisation In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (april), p. 86. theosofie, spiritualiteit, dualisme, moraal, intellect, liefde =20 Aan alle leden van deze mailinglist, Hier een lijst van nieuwe boeken en artikelen uit de catalogus van de Theosofische Bibliotheek te Amsterdam. In deze lijst staan ook een aantal oudere uitgaven, die verkregen zijn via legaten en schenkingen, maar waardevol en interessant genoeg zijn om aan onze collectie te worden toegevoegd. Na elke titelbeschrijving kunt u een paar trefwoorden vinden. D= e titels zijn gesorteerd op auteur en zijn bijna allemaal uitleenbaar. Ook kunt u deze boeken aanvragen via Interbibliothecair Leenverkeer (IBL), bij uw dichtsbijzijnde openbare bibliotheek. Om je lidmaatschap van deze mailinglist op te zeggen, of om e-mail adressen toe te voegen e-mail naar: bibliotheek@theosofie.nl Ons adres: Tolstraat 154, 1074 VM, Amsterdam, Tel.: 020-6765672, Internet: www.theosofie.nl =20 =20 =20 To all members of this mailinglist, This is a list of new books and articles from the catalogue of the Theosophical Library in Amsterdam (The Netherlands). In this list are also some older publications, obtained by legacies or donations, which are valuable and interesting enough to add to our collection. After each description you can find some keywords (in Dutch). The titles are sorted by author and almost all are on loan. You can also borrow these books by way o= f Interbibliothecair Leenverkeer (IBL), which is available at a public librar= y near you. To unsubscribe your membership of this mailinglist or to add e-mail addresses please send an e-mail to: bibliotheek@theosofie.nl" Our address: Tolstraat 154, 1074 VM, Amsterdam, The Netherlands Tel.: 020-6765672, Internet: www.theosofie.nl =20 =20 Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards Renger Dijkstra, bibliothecaris / librarian =20 =20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From r.dijkstra@quicknet.nl Tue Sep 01 14:57:46 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: r.dijkstra@quicknet.nl X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 45472 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2009 21:57:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Sep 2009 21:57:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO smtpq3.gn.mail.iss.as9143.net) (212.54.34.166) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 2009 21:57:42 -0000 X-Received: from [212.54.34.138] (helo=smtp7.gn.mail.iss.as9143.net) by smtpq3.gn.mail.iss.as9143.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MibM4-0007if-Ps for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 01 Sep 2009 23:57:32 +0200 X-Received: from 213-73-130-179.cable.quicknet.nl ([213.73.130.179] helo=uw6rspzydfvpyj) by smtp7.gn.mail.iss.as9143.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MibM3-0006Ld-1z for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 01 Sep 2009 23:57:31 +0200 To: "'GroupTheosTalk'" Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 23:57:35 +0200 Message-ID: <009301ca2b4f$36bedfd0$a43c9f70$@dijkstra@quicknet.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AcorTzZ8bCnpenk1TB+ANfkmYs0gGA== Content-Language: nl X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-ID: 1MibM3-0006Ld-1z X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-SpamCheck: geen spam, SpamAssassin (niet cached, score=0.961, vereist 5, ALL_TRUSTED -1.80, BAYES_00 -2.60, FRT_COCK 1.59, HTML_MESSAGE 0.00, MSGID_MULTIPLE_AT 1.45, TVD_RCVD_IP 1.93, TW_IJ 0.08, TW_JC 0.08, TW_JK 0.08, TW_JZ 0.08, TW_WK 0.08) X-ZiggoSMTP-MailScanner-From: r.dijkstra@quicknet.nl X-Spam-Status: No X-Originating-IP: 212.54.34.166 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: "Renger Dijkstra" Subject: Acquisitions july-august 2009 Theosophical Library Amsterdam X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=53711327; y=hdJ8TdP8-3wULApsWsjhX3YTnHjc4rlzt_qOHukhrcpd__PG15CZFElX X-Yahoo-Profile: renger_dijkstra Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52790 Aanwinsten juli-augustus 2009 / Acquisitions july-august 2009 =20 Nieuwe boeken en artikelen in de Theosofische Bibliotheek Amsterdam New books and articles in the Theosophical Library Amsterdam, The Netherlands Search by yourself in our catalogue with more than 25.000 books and 93.000 articles on theosophy, religion and esotericism at: http://www.theosofie.nl/bibliotheek/index.htm =20 Met vriendelijke groet, with kind regards Renger Dijkstra, bibliothecaris, librarian =20 Ashokananda, S. Advaita en het monisme in de vedanta in de woorden van swami Ashokananda ; Ramakrishna Orde van India ; [vert. uit het Engels: Andr=E9 van den Brink]. - Amsterdam : Gopher, 2008. - 16 p= . ; 21 cm. sign.: REL-11-6-ASHO-1 Trefw.: religie, hindoe=EFsme, vedanta, advaita vedanta, spiritualiteit =20 Blavatsky, H.P. Kosmische evolutie : in zeven stanza's, vertaald uit het Boek van Dzyan : stanza IV / 9uit H.P. Blavatsky, De Geheime Leer, deel I, Het ontstaan van de kosmos, Theosophical University Press) In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (augustus), p. 144-145. theosofie, kosmische evolutie, stanza's =20 Boer, I. de De stem van de stilte : de wereld achter het werk deel I / Ingmar de Boer In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (augustus), p. 146-152. theosofie, De stem van de Stilte, commentaren =20 Bont, M.H. de Spiritisme versus mysticisme : de Rozekruis Orde A.M.O.R.C. verhandeling door M.H. de Bont. - 's-Gravenhage : AMORC-Nederland, 19XX. - 19 p. ; 21 cm. - (AMORC-Akademie ; 17)=20 sign.: ESO-5-2-BONT-1 Trefw.: esoterie, rozenkruisers, AMORC, spiritisme, mystiek =20 Burnier, R. Krishnamurti en de theosofie / R. Burnier en P. Krishna ; vert. [uit het Engels] A.M.I. In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (augustus), p. 135-143. theosofie, J. Krishnamurti =20 Gordon, J.S. Egypt, child of Atlantis : a radical interpretation of the origins of civilization : Cosmic seasons and astronomical cycles -- Geological, geographical, and climatological issues -- The disappearing "Atlantes" -- The appearance of culture and civilization -- Egyptian magic and the law of hierarchy -- Two mystery traditions reconsidered -- Gods of the abyss and underworld -- The ancient esoteric division of Egypt and the significance o= f its major temples -- Completing the "jigsaw puzzle" of astronomical metaphors and allegories -- Sacred geometry and the "living" architecture o= f Egypt -- The esoteric significance of the sphinx and pyramids -- The internal geometry of the great pyramid -- Reflections=20 John Gordon . - Rochester, Vt : Bear and Co, 2004. - x, 294 p. : ill. ; 26 cm. Originally published: Land of the fallen star gods. England : Orpheus Pub. House, 1997. - notes, glossary, bibliography, index. ISBN 9781591430230 sign.: RAN-8-2-GORD-2 Trefw.: religie, Egypte =20 Gout, M. Geometrie : modulaire co=F6rdinatie in de Middeleeuwen M. Gout. - [Delft] : [Technische Universiteit], [1987]. - 51 p. : ill. ; 2= 3 cm. sign.: RAN-4-3-GOUT-2 Trefw.: symboliek, symbolische meetkunde, geometrie, bouwkunst, kathedralen= , middeleeuwen =20 Gout, M. Geometrie in de tempel : de ma=E7onnieke bouwsymboliek verklaard aan de han= d van de kathedraal van Ami=EBns M. Gout ; [foto's: M.G. Gout ... et al. ; red.: J.A. den Ouden ; ill.: W.F. Veen]. - Gouda : De Steensplinter, 2009. - 96 p. : ill. ; 24 cm. - (Kubusreeks ; 11)=20 ISBN 9789057170263 sign.: ESO-4-4-GOUT-2 Trefw.: esoterie, vrijmetselarij, religieuze bouwkunst, geometrie, symbolische meetkunde, kathedralen, Ami=EBns, architectuur =20 Haak, D. van den Het Gods-begrip van Spinoza : lezing gehouden voor de Rozekruisers-Akademie door D. van den Haak. - 's-Gravenhage : AMORC-Nederland, 19XX. - 27 p. ; 2= 1 cm. - (AMORC-Akademie ; 43)=20 sign.: ESO-5-2-HAAK-1 Trefw.: esoterie, rozenkruisers, AMORC, godsbegrip, Spinoza =20 Hafiz Verzen uit de Schrift van het Hart Hafiz ; gesel. en vert. [uit het Engels naar de oorspr. Perzische uitg.] door Wim van der Zwan. - Deventer : Ankh-Hermes, cop. 2000. - 110 p. ; 18 cm. - (Ori=EBnt-serie) . - bibliografie. ISBN 9020219685 sign.: ESO-12-2-HAFI-1 Trefw.: esoterie, soefisme, mystiek, liefde, gedichten, filosofie =20 Hanegraaff, W.J. Hermes in the Academy : ten years' study of westen esotericism at the University of Amsterdam : Part 1 History of hermetic philosophy and related currents : origins and development: The birth of a chair / Roelof van den Broeck. Ten years of studying and teaching western esotericism / Wouter J. Hanegraaff ; Part 2 Glimpses of research: The pagan who come from the east: George Gemistos Plethon and platonic orientalism / Wouter J. Hanegraaff. Astrologia hermetica: astrology, western culture, and the Academy / Kocku von Stuckrad. The modernity of occultisme: reflections on some crucial aspects / Marco Pasi. Mathematical esotericism: some perspectives on renaissance arithmology ; Jeane-Pierre Brach. Danish esotericism in the 20t= h century: the case of Martinus / Olav Hammer ; Part 3 Studying western esotericism in Amsterdam: On first looking into the Halls of Hermeticism / Marieke J.E. van den Doel. An unlikely love affair: Plato, the Netherlands, and life after westotericism / Dylan Burns. Heterology in Amsterdam: the Academy takes the other out to dinner / Osvald Vasicek. The Copenhagen connection / Sara Moldrup Theils. If you seek / Susannah Crockford ; Part 4 Western esotericism in international perpective: From "the hermetic tradion= " to "western esotericism"/ Allison Coudert. From Paris to Amsterdam and beyond: origins and development of a collaboration / Antoine Faivre. Wester= n esotericism in the United Kingdom / Nicholas Goodrick-Clark. From talk abou= t esotericism to esotericism research: remarks on the prehistory and development of a Research Group / Monika Neugebauer-W=F6lk. Seven epistemological theses on esotericism: upon the occasion of the 10th anniversary of the Amsterdam Chair / Andreas Kilcher. Hermes and his students in Amsterdam / Joyce Pijnenburg ed. Wouter J. Hanegraaff and Joyce Pijnenburg ; preface Jos=E9 van Dijck ; Roelof van den Broeck ; Kocku von Stuckrad ; Marco Pasi ; Jeane-Pierre Brac= h ; Olav Hammer ; Marieke J.E. van den Doel ; Dylan Burns ; Osvald Vasicek ; Sara Moldrup Theils ; Susannah Crockford ; Allison Coudert ; Antoine Faivre ; Nicholas Goodrick-Clark ; Monika Neugebauer-W=F6lk ; Andreas Kilcher . - Amsterdam : Amsterdam University Press, 2009. - 163 p. : ill. ; 24 cm.. - notes, bibliography, register. ISBN 9789056295721 sign.: ESO-1-1-HANE-6 Trefw.: esoterie, westerse esoterie, hermetische filosofie, studies, geschiedenis, Universiteit van Amsterdam, GHF, paganisme, occultisme, hermetica, jubileumuitgaven, theosofie =20 Huijs, P.W.F. Geroepen door het wereldhart : een beschouwing over het ontstaan en de ontwikkeling van de Geestesschool van het Gouden Rozenkruis en haar stichters J. van Rijckenborgh en Catharose de Petri=20 door Peter Huijs ; [red.: Kees Bode ... et al. ; eindred.: Mirjam Duivenvoorden ; fotogr.: Foto-archief E.T. Hamelink ... et al.]. - Haarlem = : Rozekruis Pers, cop. 2009. - 455 p. : ill. ; 23 cm.. - algemene bibliografie, bibliografie, register. ISBN 9789067323406 sign.: ESO-5-4-HUIJ-1 Trefw.: esoterie, rozenkruisers, Jan van Rijckenborgh, Catharose de Petri, geschiedenis, filosofie, Lectorium Rosicrucianum, religie, gnosticisme =20 Idee De idee achter de schepping Haarlem : Het Rozekruisers Genootschap, 19XX. - 11 p. ; 20 cm. sign.: ESO-5-4-IDEE-1 Trefw.: rozenkruisers, schepping =20 Ierlant, F. van Wie was... Jiddu Krishnamurti : 1895-1986 / FvI In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (augustus), p. 169-172. theosofie, J. Krishnamurti =20 Jayaprakash, A. Spiritualiteit : een levenswijze / A. Jayaprakash ; vert. [uit het Engels] A.M.I. In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (augustus), p. 165-168. theosofie, spiritualiteit =20 Kriyananda, G. Kriya-yoga : werk- en oefenboek Goswami Kriyananda ; [vert. uit het Engels: Jacqueline Moonen]. - Deventer = : Ankh-Hermes, cop. 1994. - 361 p. : ill. ; 22 cm. Vert. van: The spiritual science of kriya yoga. - Chicago : The Temple of Kriya Yoga, 1992. - register. ISBN 9020251597 sign.: REL-11-8-KRIY-1 Trefw.: religie, hindoe=EFsme, yoga, kriya-yoga, spiritualiteit, verlichtin= g, reinigingstechnieken, concentratie, meditatie, contemplatie, asana's, ontspanningshoudingen, chakra's, hamsa-kriyatechnieken =20 Laroche, J.-P. Proph=E9ties pour temps de crise : interpr=E9tations de Nostradamus au fil = des si=E8cles : (Fonds Michel Chomarat de la Biblioth=E8que municipale de Lyon)= : [exposition], Salon-de-Provence, Ch=E2teau de l'Emp=E9ri, 14 juin - 21 sept= embre 2003=20 catalogue redig=E9 par Jean-Paul Laroche. - Lyon : Editions Michel Chomarat= , 2003. - 155 p. : ill. ; 24 cm.. - bibliographie, index des noms cit=E9s. ISBN 2908185539 sign.: RAN-6-15-LARO-1 Trefw.: Nostradamus, voorspellingen, tentoonstellingscatalogi =20 Leene, M. Mijn steen, mijn leermeester Mia Leene ; met ill. van Thalia ter Kuile. - Haarlem : Ercee, cop. 1983. - 161 p. : ill. ; 21 cm.. - bibliografie. sign.: ESO-5-6-LEEN-17 Trefw.: esoterie, rozenkruisers, edelstenen, kosmische krachten, occultisme= , gezondheid, mystiek =20 Leroy, E. Nostradamus : ses origines, sa vie, son oeuvre=20 Edgar Leroy ; pr=E9face Sylvain Gagni=E8re. - r=E9impression de l'=E9dition= de Bergerac 1972. - [Marseille] : Laffite Reprints, cop. 1993. - ix, 198 p. : ill. ; 25 cm.. - notes. ISBN 2862762318 sign.: RAN-6-15-LERO-1 Trefw.: Nostradamus, voorspellingen, biografie=EBn =20 Lommel, W. van Een bijna-doodervaring, en hoe verder? W. van Lommel. - 2e dr. - Loosdrecht : I.A.N.D.S. Nederland ; Stichting Merkawah, 1994. - 28 p. ; 24 cm.. - literatuur. sign.: RAN-3-7-LOMM-2 Trefw.: ervaringen met de dood, BDE, bijna-dood ervaringen, dood, onderzoek =20 Macht De macht van het niet-doen Haarlem : Rozekruis-Pers, 19XX. - 12 p. ; 21 cm. sign.: ESO-5-4-MACH-1 Trefw.: esoterie, rozenkruisers, niet-doen, woe-wei, religie, chinese godsdiensten =20 Pennick, N. Sacrale geometrie : verborgen lijnen in de bouwkunst=20 Nigel Pennick ; de Nederlandse uitg. in samenw. met en aangevuld door: M. Gout ; eindred. & bew.: M. Gout ; [vert. uit het Engels: Wouter Hekkelman]. - Den Haag : Synthese, 2004. - 222 p. : ill. ; 22 cm. Vert. van: Sacred geometry. - Wellingborough, Northamptonshire : Turnstone, cop. 1999. - verklarende woordenlijst. ISBN 906271952X sign.: RAN-4-3-PENN-1 Trefw.: symboliek, symbolische meetkunde, sacrale geometrie, bouwkunst, geschiedenis, Engeland, Egypte, Mesopotami=EB, Griekenland, Vitruvius, Magistri Comanchini, middeleeuwen, mysteri=EBn, Renaissance, Barok, wetensc= hap =20 Plannen Plannen voor aanbouw weg over terrein Adyar In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (augustus), p. 173. theosofie, Adyar =20 Rao, S.K.R. Tantra, mantra, yantra : the tantra psychology S.K. Ramachandra Rao. - New Delhi : Arnold-Heinemann, 1975. - 79 p., [4] leaves of plates. : ill. ; 24 cm.. - references. sign.: REL-11-15-RAO-1 Trefw.: religie, hindoe=EFsme, boeddhisme, tantra, mantra, yantra, psycholo= gie =20 Ratanasuwan, P. Buddha vidya (buddhology) by Phorn Ratanasuwan ; translator: Siri Buddhasukh. - Bangkok, Thailand : Home of Psychical Research, 1983. - A-H, 455, 140 p. ; 25 cm. Translation of: Phutthawitthaya. - index. sign.: REL-12-1-RATA-1 Trefw.: religie, boeddhisme =20 Rijneker, E. Leven na leven / Els Rijneker In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (augustus), p. 161-164. theosofie, leven en dood, onsterfelijkheid =20 Rozekruisers De Rozekruisers onthullen hun geheim de Opperste Raad van de Rozekruisers Orde AMORC ; [vert. uit het Frans] . - Leeuwarden : Elikser, 2008. - 251 p. : ill. ; 21 cm. Vert. van: Les Rose-Croix l=E8vent le secret. - Paris : Lanore, 2008 ISBN 9789089540706 sign.: ESO-5-2-ROZE-1 Trefw.: esoterie, rozekruisers, AMORC, spiritualiteit, materie, bewustzijn, leven, symboliek, filosofie, gezondheid, ziel, psyche, geest, ziel, wonderen, Jezus, tempeliers, evolutie, alchemie, sterrenkunde, manifesten, goed en kwaad, geluk, God, geneeskunde, Egypte, natuurkunde, wetenschap, humanisme, geschiedenis =20 Ruusbroec, J. van De geestelijke bruiloft Jan van Ruusbroec ; en ingel. door Guido de Baere ; vert. [uit het Middelnederlands] door Jos van den Hoek. - 1e dr. - 's-Hertogenbosch [etc.] : KBS, 2008. - 213 p. ; 22 cm. Vert. van: Die chierheit der gheestelicker brulocht ISBN 9789061731108 sign.: REL-6-6-RUUS-2a Trefw.: religie, christendom, mystiek, spiritualiteit, christelijke mystiek= , Jan van Ruusbroec, middeleeuws christendom, religieuze ervaring =20 Safran, A. Wisdom of the kabbalah Alexandre Safran ; translated from the French by E.M. Sandle. - Jerusalem ; New York : Feldheim, 1991. - [9], 230 p. ; 24 cm. Vert. van: Sagesse de la Kabbale. - Paris : Stock, 1986. - glossary. ISBN 0873065824 sign.: ESO-7-1-SAFR-3 Trefw.: esoterie, kabbala, wijsheid, mystiek, joodse mystiek, religie, geschiedenis =20 Smit, P.J. Bewustzijn voorbij de grenzen : bijna-doodervaringen in perspectief, deel 2 / Peter J. Smit In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (augustus), p. 153-160. theosofie, bewustzijn, BDE =20 Steiner, R. Apocalypse en priesterschap Rudolf Steiner ; met een naw. van Wolf-Ulrich Kl=FCnker ; [vert. naw. Jelle van der Schuit ; ill. Rudolf Steiner] ; vert. [uit het Duits] door Hylcke Brandts Buys. - Zeist : Vrij Geestesleven, cop. 2005. - 340 p., [16] p. ill. : ill. ; 21 cm. - (Werken en voordrachten / Rudolf Steiner ; Werkterreinen van de antroposofie/Religie ; m1)=20 Vert. van: Apokalypse und Priesterwerken. - Dornach : Rudolf Steiner Verlag= , 1995. - (Rudolf Steiner Gesamtausgabe ; nr. 346). - aantekeningen, bibliografie, levensoverzicht. ISBN 9060385500 sign.: ESO-9-4-STEI-90 Trefw.: esoterie, antroposofie, Einde der tijden, apocalypse, priesterschap= , Openbaring van Johannes, filosofie =20 Troost, A. Heile Dich selbst mit Bachbl=FCten : warum geben die Bachbl=FCten seelische= s Wachstum und Gesundheit? Annemarie Troost. - 1. Aufl. - Sils Maria : Rosenkreuzer Philosophie Verlag= , 2006. - 330 p. : diagr. ; 22 cm.. - Literaturhinweise. ISBN 9783906414478 sign.: RAN-5-1-TROO-1 Trefw.: gezondheid, bachbloesemtherapie, esoterie, rozenkruisers, Max Heindel =20 Troost, A. Heile Dich selbst mit den Engeln : ein wahrhaft geistiges Heilbuch Annemarie Troost. - 1. Aufl. - Sils Maria : Heile Dich Selbst Verlag, 2008. - 254 p. : diagr. ; 21 cm. ISBN 9783905794137 sign.: RAN-6-8-TROO-1 Trefw.: paranormale wezens, engelen, gezondheid, genezingen, esoterie, rozenkruisers, Max Heindel, beschermengelen =20 Troost, A. Heile Dich selbst =FCber die Astro-Diagnose : eine neue Deutungsmethode f= =FCr die selbst=E4ndige astrologische Charakter und Gesundheitsastrologie Annemarie Troost. - 1. Aufl. - Sils Maria : Heile Dich Selbst Verlag, 2008. - 483 p. : diagr. ; 22 cm.. - Literaturhinweise. ISBN 978390614485 sign.: RAN-7-5-TROO-1 Trefw.: astrologie, gezondheid, medische astrologie, astro-diagnose, karakter, horoscopen =20 Verenigingsnieuws Verenigingsnieuws: Vooraankondiging Naarden, 27-30 augustus 2009, Steps to spiritual realisation In: Theosofia =3D Theosophia : orgaan van de Nederlandsche Theosophische Vereeniging: vol. 110 (2009), (april), p. 86. theosofie, spiritualiteit, dualisme, moraal, intellect, liefde =20 Aan alle leden van deze mailinglist, Hier een lijst van nieuwe boeken en artikelen uit de catalogus van de Theosofische Bibliotheek te Amsterdam. In deze lijst staan ook een aantal oudere uitgaven, die verkregen zijn via legaten en schenkingen, maar waardevol en interessant genoeg zijn om aan onze collectie te worden toegevoegd. Na elke titelbeschrijving kunt u een paar trefwoorden vinden. D= e titels zijn gesorteerd op auteur en zijn bijna allemaal uitleenbaar. Ook kunt u deze boeken aanvragen via Interbibliothecair Leenverkeer (IBL), bij uw dichtsbijzijnde openbare bibliotheek. Om je lidmaatschap van deze mailinglist op te zeggen, of om e-mail adressen toe te voegen e-mail naar: bibliotheek@theosofie.nl Ons adres: Tolstraat 154, 1074 VM, Amsterdam, Tel.: 020-6765672, Internet: www.theosofie.nl =20 =20 =20 To all members of this mailinglist, This is a list of new books and articles from the catalogue of the Theosophical Library in Amsterdam (The Netherlands). In this list are also some older publications, obtained by legacies or donations, which are valuable and interesting enough to add to our collection. After each description you can find some keywords (in Dutch). The titles are sorted by author and almost all are on loan. You can also borrow these books by way o= f Interbibliothecair Leenverkeer (IBL), which is available at a public librar= y near you. To unsubscribe your membership of this mailinglist or to add e-mail addresses please send an e-mail to: bibliotheek@theosofie.nl" Our address: Tolstraat 154, 1074 VM, Amsterdam, The Netherlands Tel.: 020-6765672, Internet: www.theosofie.nl =20 =20 Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards Renger Dijkstra, bibliothecaris / librarian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Augoeides-222@comcast.net Tue Sep 01 19:55:30 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: augoeides-222@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16707 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2009 02:55:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2009 02:55:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO QMTA15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net) (76.96.27.228) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2009 02:55:24 -0000 X-Received: from OMTA10.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.28]) by QMTA15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id bcBM1c0080cQ2SLAFevMzr; Wed, 02 Sep 2009 02:55:21 +0000 X-Received: from sz0103.ev.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.26.163]) by OMTA10.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id bevM1c0013X8bDG8WevMxj; Wed, 02 Sep 2009 02:55:21 +0000 Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 02:55:20 +0000 (UTC) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <1361352198.1621281251860120964.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <923254582.1620761251860063826.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Zimbra 5.0.16_GA_2927.RHEL5_64 (ZimbraWebClient - FF3.0 (Win)/5.0.16_GA_2927.RHEL5_64) X-Originating-IP: 76.96.27.228 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net Subject: Re: Theos-World Some thoughts on Transparency X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=314500470; y=0mvSkmxjMZokxdoPiVwYJvuJJPNraHLQF0NHnsZHZlyhzy-hFEZ64RWgsMYfn_Ln X-Yahoo-Profile: sessesgenbarpharanges Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52791 Morten,=20 The Platform Sutra of the 6th Patriarch is excellent, and if you notice esp= ecially when a monk asks the Patriarche for "The Non-verbal Transmission of= Mind" the Patriarches reply was "Have you seen your original face?" , ther= e follows a hysterical effort of the monk to locate and find by an exhausti= ve search of his cell and where abouts the "face" the Patriarche asked him = about! lol. So here so also become exposred to the ten levels of conscousne= ss of the Bodhisatva and the interesting route between the levels. I enjoye= d this Sutra myself long a ago. The habitual pattern is "clinging" to mind = itself.=20 John=20 ---- Original Message -----=20 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" =20 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2009 9:12:46 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific=20 Subject: Re: Theos-World Some thoughts on Transparency=20 MKR wrote:=20 "MISLEADING SECRECY HAS GIVEN THE DEATH BLOW TO NUMEROUS ORGANIZATIONS."=20 M. Sufilight says:=20 Yes. I wonder, what would happen with "MISLEADING OPENNESS"?=20 - - - A bit of Zen - - -=20 A)=20 FLAG=20 The wind was flapping a temple flag. Two monks were arguing about it. One s= aid the flag was moving; the other said the wind was moving. Arguing back a= nd forth they could come to no agreement.=20 The Sixth Patriarch said, "It is neither the wind nor the flag that is movi= ng. It is your mind that is moving."=20 - - -=20 B)=20 Zen Saying:=20 Be master of mind rather than mastered by mind.=20 - - -=20 C)=20 Zen Saying:=20 Zen mind is not Zen mind. That is, if you are attached to Zen mind, then yo= u have a problem, and your way is very narrow.=20 M. Sufilight=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: MKR=20 To: theos-talk=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 2:30 PM=20 Subject: Theos-World Some thoughts on Transparency=20 Recently when I visited a state government website in the USA, I looked at= =20 the site map and was surprised and impressed to find Transparency as one of= =20 the topics.=20 .=20 Obviously, in the 21st century, transparency is becoming easier to implemen= t=20 with the help of Internet. All meetings can be streamed on-line and can als= o=20 be archived for later viewing. All documentation can be put online and can= =20 be viewed any time.=20 .=20 In the USA, it is a legal requirement that all public bodies have to meet i= n=20 open meetings and criminal penalties are there if anyone violates it. In th= e=20 wisdom of those who formulated these requirements, they found it is a great= =20 safeguard to protect the public interests to prevent backdoor secret=20 decisions hurting the public.=20 .=20 The recent events in TS has high lighted the need for transparency. Startin= g=20 with the untruthful information about the health of the sitting president a= t=20 the time of the election and subsequent shocking attempt to secretly=20 disenfranchise all members and seize the power of appointing the president= =20 leaves much of a choice to members. These actions and continued silence of= =20 the leaders, elders, long-time members, and other well known members, does= =20 not help increase the trust members have in their leaders.=20 .=20 Unless members are alert and vigilant, the continued inaction in the=20 bringing about transparency at the autonomous Section level activities, we= =20 do not know what danger is being cooked behind the scenes. This is all the= =20 more important because, the strongly divided voting pattern in the last GC= =20 meeting says a lot. It is in stark contrast with the almost unanimous=20 pattern that is the norm since the days of Olcott.=20 .=20 Fortunately, we are blessed with the benefit of the Master=E2=80=99s warnin= g -=20 MISLEADING SECRECY HAS GIVEN THE DEATH BLOW TO NUMEROUS ORGANIZATIONS.=20 .=20 Let us benefit from it. It is high time members demand their Section leader= s=20 to immediately implement total transparency. It is very easy to do it.=20 .=20 MKR=20 .=20 visit *theosophy.net* < http://theosophy.net >=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From seeker_preethi@yahoo.com Wed Sep 02 01:42:48 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: seeker_preethi@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 31067 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2009 08:42:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2009 08:42:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web94713.mail.in2.yahoo.com) (203.104.17.182) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2009 08:42:41 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 4897 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Sep 2009 08:42:40 -0000 Message-ID: <145164.4655.qm@web94713.mail.in2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: qzTcWHQVM1m9nbgl1gpusFREtHF9g6uuTiwRvxhGQUUPOBcoZJ1uLsHJoz3ooS91_lBSO6xOiovVdWkx7IezqbxFU1gpQrFjksRgIM5ACIj9KOlr7dM4oHcvWo1Oq4hu6.iP4WV84zqRMhrRA4g6LtGCrk3Bx928lY7f.Ogeq8mrWaCkHFNFfwfEIMswwbj7AM3KLEmm80M41jMOwNHcEH3yVKVSPm5mV3Jzk5toQGs- X-Received: from [59.96.24.92] by web94713.mail.in2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 02 Sep 2009 14:12:40 IST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/6.1.2 YahooMailWebService/0.7.338.2 Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 14:12:40 +0530 (IST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 203.104.17.182 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: preethi muthiah Subject: Re: Theos-World Better news in Chennai highway project X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=397277465; y=QLgeWokWrZJPp1KaCj5Cyv22egUtEeG8rxnMcIzi-M-8cpkQOWmsXEw X-Yahoo-Profile: seeker_preethi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52792 Thank you Sampsa for keeping me updated with news about Adyar. Otherwise, I= have had no news at all of it since Mrs Burnier threw me out when I chose = to stand up against the corruption she practises in the running of the Esta= te. Fraternally Preethi --- On Sun, 30/8/09, sampsakuukasjarvi wrote: From: sampsakuukasjarvi Subject: Theos-World Better news in Chennai highway project To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, 30 August, 2009, 3:54 AM =A0 =20=20=20=20 I heard promising news which had originally been delivere= d abroad by the Indian TOS (Theosophical Order of Service) leader Mr. C.V.K= . Maithreya. The Hindu News writes about this in the link below. The news is that it seems that it is possible that the Adyar Estuary and th= e Headquarters of the Theosophical Society will be saved from the new big h= ighway. At this moment the road plan has been changed to go elsewhere. Thanks to internet, the Tamil Nadu authorities have gotten over 1500 petiti= ons only from abroad against the road near Adyar. The final decisions about the road are likely be made on January. http://www.hinduonn et.com/thehindu/ thscrip/print. pl?file=3D20090826 5999= 0300. htm&date=3D 2009/08/26/ &prd=3Dth& I think this encouraging news may be a sign that the TS Adyar will physical= ly survive and still live long and prosper. Many Theosophists don't underst= and how unique the Adyar Headquarter area with its nature is compared to th= e adjacent urban area of six million inhabitants. In fact, it is a miracle = that the precious area has so far survived under pressure. The spiritual su= rvival of the Society is, of course, a different thing, and it is up to eve= ry member. Let us wish all the best! Sampsa =20 =20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20 =09 =09=20 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check = out Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From sampsakuukasjarvi@yahoo.com Wed Sep 02 05:49:15 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: sampsakuukasjarvi@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16215 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2009 12:49:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2009 12:49:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n39b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.153) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2009 12:49:09 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.150] by n39.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 2009 12:48:50 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.32] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 2009 12:48:50 -0000 Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 12:48:47 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <145164.4655.qm@web94713.mail.in2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.168.153 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 91.154.29.80 From: "sampsakuukasjarvi" Subject: Re: Theos-World Better news in Chennai highway project X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=361962269; y=R4Lg53rrlpsnqHC7dOc08wSOr4gSvY-GrMPJwmCmxyP9WHPbsV5u3D8VHAk X-Yahoo-Profile: sampsakuukasjarvi X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52793 Hi Preethi, I wanted to inform all Theosophists about the improved situation concerning= Adyar and the highway. You have been brave in your writings about Adyar, but I think some details = about the workers have been too personal to be forwarded. Btw, Preethi, I would be curious to know if you could tell us something abo= ut Mrs. Kusum Sutapathy, the new international Secretary of the Adyar TS. I= assume you met her at Adyar while you worked there. She is not well-known.= Most people only know that her background (family) is very theosophical. Sampsa from Finland --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, preethi muthiah wro= te: > > Thank you Sampsa for keeping me updated with news about Adyar. Otherwise,= I have had no news at all of it since Mrs Burnier threw me out when I chos= e to stand up against the corruption she practises in the running of the Es= tate. >=20 > Fraternally >=20 > Preethi From sampsakuukasjarvi@yahoo.com Wed Sep 02 06:07:09 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: sampsakuukasjarvi@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 19450 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2009 13:07:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2009 13:07:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n37b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.151) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2009 13:07:07 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n37.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 2009 13:07:04 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 2009 13:07:04 -0000 Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 13:07:03 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.168.151 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 91.154.29.80 From: "sampsakuukasjarvi" Subject: Re: Faked moon landing? Update -- Shock in Amsterdam X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=361962269; y=2OqFwlCJPZeEnRnWRjiGZpg02S4FmOQXuMn0aDjbQdI0a2PYRYCusTaANhE X-Yahoo-Profile: sampsakuukasjarvi X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52794 Cass, the last two letters of the link given by Frank didn't come properly = so that they could connect to the site. It is Yahoo's fault. The technology= of this forum is very old-fashioned. You can copy the link (with last two = letters) and paste it into your browser's site row. Then it works. I believe Frank is right in his suspicion. There is something strange in ho= w a lot of evidence about Moon flights has disappered. We can google "moon = hoax" and see that the internet is full of sceptical information about Moon= flights. Here is just one conspiracy site: http://conspiracyguy.wordpress.com/page/3/ (And again, if the url doesn't work, you can copy the address and paste it = into browser) There is of course 360 kilos of real moon rocks on Earth, but sceptics say = they are from meteors found in Antarctis or have been brought from Moon wit= hout astronauts... Sampsa --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "c.leest" wrote: > > Wha is fake, also this url is error, not to be find. > Christina >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Reitemeyer" wro= te: > > > > Shock in Amsterdam Museum. > >=20 > > The stone from the moon landing turns out a fake: > >=20 > > http://www.usatoday.com/travel/destinations/2009-08-27-rijksmuseum-moon= -rock_N.htm > >=20 > > First time in life I had serious doubts about accepted Western academic > > dogmas like virusses, inocculation, vivisection or moon landings after > > studying Blavatsky commentator and successor Gottfried de Purucker. Aft= er > > this initiation I made in-depth studies. Today the picture about the co= mmon > > conspiracy is quite clear. > >=20 > > Interesting, that the biggest German newspaper prints the demand for > > research of all alleged moon stones. > >=20 > > Theosophists should make inquiries that also research should be made on= : > >=20 > > - the original Apollo films > > - the original Apollo devices > > - the original Apollo space suits > >=20 > > Bear in mind, that all films, devices, space suits etc. Nasa shows sinc= e 40 > > years in museums, exhibitions, are NOT original, but "reconstructions". > >=20 > > I for one write oftren readers letters and inquiries to authorities. It= is > > most interesting, what can turn out with this letters over the years. > >=20 > > In the early 1980'ies I supported an Aids critical group, who demanded= =20 > > proofs that > > the HIV virus exists and that this virus is responsible for a bulk of 3= 0 > > ordinary ilnesses. Billions of dollars "science" has sucked out this th= en > > from the taxpayers with no result until now... > >=20 > > But end of the 1980'ies my search for truth was rewarded as I came to > > theosophy and with theosophy came the most needed answers for many life= long > > bruning questions. > >=20 > > But what of the burning questions of TODAY? > > What about the suffering of the billions of innocent people TODAY? > >=20 > > Since 100 years the ULT sows doubt about the Masters of Wisdom and Thei= r > > messengers. > >=20 > > The ULT teaches the heresy that each theosophist can find the truth for > > him/her/it alone. > >=20 > > But since 100 years fails to give proofs in form of answers to burning > > questions. > >=20 > > Theosophists should also ask the ULT about the theosophical position to > > themes like virusses, moon landings etc. > >=20 > > BTW, the moon stone is not the only fake on historical matters in > > Amsterdam... > >=20 > > "License history" as KH would say ("Five years of Theosophy", p. 326). > >=20 > > Frank > > > From mkr777@gmail.com Wed Sep 02 06:11:29 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 85212 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2009 13:11:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2009 13:11:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO qw-out-2122.google.com) (74.125.92.24) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2009 13:11:26 -0000 X-Received: by qw-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 9so293884qwb.1 for ; Wed, 02 Sep 2009 06:10:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.23.212 with SMTP id s20mr2299277qcb.71.1251897026045; Wed, 02 Sep 2009 06:10:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <145164.4655.qm@web94713.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 08:10:25 -0500 Message-ID: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 74.125.92.24 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Better news in Chennai highway project X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=jfEfK0OUw-YZte70zuRGt4a19-I1XSihlW5ztgCqzt-Bjgv9hqs X-Yahoo-Profile: ramadoss226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52795 I too would like to know more about her. It appears that she is from Kolkatta (formerly Calcutta) and worked for the Government. Anyone here from Kolkatta may also be able to tell us about her. MKR theosophy.net On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 7:48 AM, sampsakuukasjarvi < sampsakuukasjarvi@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Hi Preethi, > > I wanted to inform all Theosophists about the improved situation concerning > Adyar and the highway. > > You have been brave in your writings about Adyar, but I think some details > about the workers have been too personal to be forwarded. > > Btw, Preethi, I would be curious to know if you could tell us something > about Mrs. Kusum Sutapathy, the new international Secretary of the Adyar TS. > I assume you met her at Adyar while you worked there. She is not well-known. > Most people only know that her background (family) is very theosophical. > > Sampsa from Finland > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com , preethi > muthiah wrote: > > > > Thank you Sampsa for keeping me updated with news about Adyar. Otherwise, > I have had no news at all of it since Mrs Burnier threw me out when I chose > to stand up against the corruption she practises in the running of the > Estate. > > > > Fraternally > > > > Preethi > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From sampsakuukasjarvi@yahoo.com Wed Sep 02 06:11:48 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: sampsakuukasjarvi@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 32414 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2009 13:11:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m4.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2009 13:11:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n44d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.158) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2009 13:11:45 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n44.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 2009 13:11:42 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.34] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 2009 13:11:42 -0000 Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 13:11:42 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.169.158 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 91.154.29.80 From: "sampsakuukasjarvi" Subject: Re: Faked moon landing? Update -- Shock in Amsterdam X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=361962269; y=owu1tpmpnmPEEQBEMrnfGLmjo5I1ZdHoWqAcyU0-4wf1IeO5wDcoGmMObyA X-Yahoo-Profile: sampsakuukasjarvi X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52796 Sorry, it was Christina who wrote about the fake url, not Cass. --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "sampsakuukasjarvi" wrote: > > Cass, the last two letters of the link given by Frank didn't come properl= y so that they could connect to the site. It is Yahoo's fault. The technolo= gy of this forum is very old-fashioned. You can copy the link (with last tw= o letters) and paste it into your browser's site row. Then it works. >=20 > I believe Frank is right in his suspicion. There is something strange in = how a lot of evidence about Moon flights has disappered. We can google "moo= n hoax" and see that the internet is full of sceptical information about Mo= on flights. Here is just one conspiracy site: >=20 > http://conspiracyguy.wordpress.com/page/3/ >=20 > (And again, if the url doesn't work, you can copy the address and paste i= t into browser) >=20 > There is of course 360 kilos of real moon rocks on Earth, but sceptics sa= y they are from meteors found in Antarctis or have been brought from Moon w= ithout astronauts... >=20 > Sampsa >=20 >=20 > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "c.leest" wrote: > > > > Wha is fake, also this url is error, not to be find. > > Christina From Augoeides-222@comcast.net Wed Sep 02 06:47:48 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: augoeides-222@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 23070 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2009 13:47:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2009 13:47:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO QMTA07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net) (76.96.30.64) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2009 13:47:42 -0000 X-Received: from OMTA17.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.73]) by QMTA07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id bpJ61c0041afHeLA7pnQFr; Wed, 02 Sep 2009 13:47:24 +0000 X-Received: from sz0103.ev.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.26.163]) by OMTA17.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id bpnQ1c00E3X8bDG8dpnQWn; Wed, 02 Sep 2009 13:47:24 +0000 Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 13:47:24 +0000 (UTC) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <1250933622.1716961251899244265.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Zimbra 5.0.16_GA_2927.RHEL5_64 (ZimbraWebClient - FF3.0 (Win)/5.0.16_GA_2927.RHEL5_64) X-Originating-IP: 76.96.30.64 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Faked moon landing? Update -- Shock in Amsterdam X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=314500470; y=eXaz51pM5B0FxrbDdNZ3LusTS3x0pvcX-WSil6Pq9HNoyk0_zs0j0BDTP3BApY7I X-Yahoo-Profile: sessesgenbarpharanges Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52797 more mindless dribble lol ----- Original Message ----- From: "sampsakuukasjarvi" To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 6:07:03 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Theos-World Re: Faked moon landing? Update -- Shock in Amsterdam Cass, the last two letters of the link given by Frank didn't come properly so that they could connect to the site. It is Yahoo's fault. The technology of this forum is very old-fashioned. You can copy the link (with last two letters) and paste it into your browser's site row. Then it works. I believe Frank is right in his suspicion. There is something strange in how a lot of evidence about Moon flights has disappered. We can google "moon hoax" and see that the internet is full of sceptical information about Moon flights. Here is just one conspiracy site: http://conspiracyguy.wordpress.com/page/3/ (And again, if the url doesn't work, you can copy the address and paste it into browser) There is of course 360 kilos of real moon rocks on Earth, but sceptics say they are from meteors found in Antarctis or have been brought from Moon without astronauts... Sampsa --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com , "c.leest" wrote: > > Wha is fake, also this url is error, not to be find. > Christina > > > > > > > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com , "Frank Reitemeyer" wrote: > > > > Shock in Amsterdam Museum. > > > > The stone from the moon landing turns out a fake: > > > > http://www.usatoday.com/travel/destinations/2009-08-27-rijksmuseum-moon-rock_N.htm > > > > First time in life I had serious doubts about accepted Western academic > > dogmas like virusses, inocculation, vivisection or moon landings after > > studying Blavatsky commentator and successor Gottfried de Purucker. After > > this initiation I made in-depth studies. Today the picture about the common > > conspiracy is quite clear. > > > > Interesting, that the biggest German newspaper prints the demand for > > research of all alleged moon stones. > > > > Theosophists should make inquiries that also research should be made on: > > > > - the original Apollo films > > - the original Apollo devices > > - the original Apollo space suits > > > > Bear in mind, that all films, devices, space suits etc. Nasa shows since 40 > > years in museums, exhibitions, are NOT original, but "reconstructions". > > > > I for one write oftren readers letters and inquiries to authorities. It is > > most interesting, what can turn out with this letters over the years. > > > > In the early 1980'ies I supported an Aids critical group, who demanded > > proofs that > > the HIV virus exists and that this virus is responsible for a bulk of 30 > > ordinary ilnesses. Billions of dollars "science" has sucked out this then > > from the taxpayers with no result until now... > > > > But end of the 1980'ies my search for truth was rewarded as I came to > > theosophy and with theosophy came the most needed answers for many lifelong > > bruning questions. > > > > But what of the burning questions of TODAY? > > What about the suffering of the billions of innocent people TODAY? > > > > Since 100 years the ULT sows doubt about the Masters of Wisdom and Their > > messengers. > > > > The ULT teaches the heresy that each theosophist can find the truth for > > him/her/it alone. > > > > But since 100 years fails to give proofs in form of answers to burning > > questions. > > > > Theosophists should also ask the ULT about the theosophical position to > > themes like virusses, moon landings etc. > > > > BTW, the moon stone is not the only fake on historical matters in > > Amsterdam... > > > > "License history" as KH would say ("Five years of Theosophy", p. 326). > > > > Frank > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Wed Sep 02 08:01:13 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 61975 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2009 15:01:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2009 15:01:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-da04.mx.aol.com) (205.188.105.146) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2009 15:01:09 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (imo-ma02.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.137]) by imr-da04.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n82F0eE6006866 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 2009 11:00:41 -0400 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.5.) id r.ca9.4d7de374 (39330) for ; Wed, 2 Sep 2009 11:00:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 11:00:38 EDT To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 9.1 sub 5000 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Originating-IP: 205.188.105.146 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Better news in Chennai highway project X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=d075qF8Ft5q17T7KTGtnKlKA7x7P1Or3iJYccouzXIXTh8pc_A X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52798 OK, I finally figured it out! India changed the names of all its cities so the Pakistanis would not know where to aim their missles at. (Kind of like the town I live in. They have big machines that move roads around so the Communists won't be able to find their way around when they invade.) Chuck the Heretic _www.charlescosimano.com In a message dated 9/2/2009 8:11:44 A.M. Central Daylight Time, mkr777@gmail.com writes: I too would like to know more about her. It appears that she is from Kolkatta (formerly Calcutta) and worked for the Government. Anyone here from Kolkatta may also be able to tell us about her. MKR www.theosophy.www On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 7:48 AM, sampsakuukasjarvi < _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _sampsakuukasjarvi@sampsakuu_ (mailto:sampsakuukasjarvi@yahoo.com) _> wrote: > > > Hi Preethi, > > I wanted to inform all Theosophists about the improved situation concerning > Adyar and the highway. > > You have been brave in your writings about Adyar, but I think some details > about the workers have been too personal to be forwarded. > > Btw, Preethi, I would be curious to know if you could tell us something > about Mrs. Kusum Sutapathy, the new international Secretary of the Adyar TS. > I assume you met her at Adyar while you worked there. She is not well-known. > Most people only know that her background (family) is very theosophical. > > Sampsa from Finland > > > --- In _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) _ , preethi > muthiah wrote: > > > > Thank you Sampsa for keeping me updated with news about Adyar. Otherwise, > I have had no news at all of it since Mrs Burnier threw me out when I chose > to stand up against the corruption she practises in the running of the > Estate. > > > > Fraternally > > > > Preethi > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Wed Sep 02 08:30:58 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 23569 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2009 15:30:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2009 15:30:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO qw-out-1920.google.com) (74.125.92.150) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2009 15:30:55 -0000 X-Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 5so332779qwc.6 for ; Wed, 02 Sep 2009 08:30:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.77.229 with SMTP id h37mr2430312qck.58.1251905453601; Wed, 02 Sep 2009 08:30:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 09:30:53 -0600 Message-ID: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 74.125.92.150 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Better news in Chennai highway project X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=ffzLCnqHJc32I9ddtN7_xDgXbzHy-J0nuFpZHpSTW8QYN8j4W2A X-Yahoo-Profile: ramadoss226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52799 Not only that. Most of the main streets in major cities and buildings have been renamed. No one can locate even streets let alone buildings. Even in our office building in San Antonio, the suite numbers are jumbled and numbered like there are two floors when there is only one, so that a visitor is totally confused. You have to see the torture of a new mailman in delivering mail to the right suite. Often wrong mail is delivered. MKR On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 9:00 AM, wrote: > > > OK, I finally figured it out! > > India changed the names of all its cities so the Pakistanis would not know > where to aim their missles at. (Kind of like the town I live in. They > have big machines that move roads around so the Communists won't be able to > > find their way around when they invade.) > > Chuck the Heretic > > _www.charlescosimano.com > > In a message dated 9/2/2009 8:11:44 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > mkr777@gmail.com writes: > > I too would like to know more about her. It appears that she is from > Kolkatta (formerly Calcutta) and worked for the Government. Anyone here > from > Kolkatta may also be able to tell us about her. > > MKR > > www.theosophy.www > > On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 7:48 AM, sampsakuukasjarvi < > > _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _sampsakuukasjarvi@sampsakuu_ > (mailto:sampsakuukasjarvi@yahoo.com ) _> > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Preethi, > > > > I wanted to inform all Theosophists about the improved situation > concerning > > Adyar and the highway. > > > > You have been brave in your writings about Adyar, but I think some > details > > about the workers have been too personal to be forwarded. > > > > Btw, Preethi, I would be curious to know if you could tell us something > > about Mrs. Kusum Sutapathy, the new international Secretary of the Adyar > TS. > > I assume you met her at Adyar while you worked there. She is not > well-known. > > Most people only know that her background (family) is very theosophical. > > > > Sampsa from Finland > > > > > > --- In _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ > (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) _ > , preethi > > muthiah wrote: > > > > > > Thank you Sampsa for keeping me updated with news about Adyar. > Otherwise, > > I have had no news at all of it since Mrs Burnier threw me out when I > chose > > to stand up against the corruption she practises in the running of the > > Estate. > > > > > > Fraternally > > > > > > Preethi > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Wed Sep 02 11:13:32 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 39518 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2009 18:13:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2009 18:13:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mx03.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.13) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2009 18:13:25 -0000 X-Received: from 56340ee0.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.14.224] helo=khidr) by mx03.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1MiuFj-0001oK-0p for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 02 Sep 2009 20:08:16 +0200 Message-ID: <000a01ca2bf8$a14b9790$e00e3456@khidr> To: References: <1361352198.1621281251860120964.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 20:10:18 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.13 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" Subject: Re: Theos-World Some thoughts on Transparency X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=tcQ1GypzDcfUzgyjUUBDmGRtdasczx55b3Lq9Dr3nNlA X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52800 This one? "Hui Neng & The Platform Sutra" by Tripitaka Master Hua http://www.thezensite.com/ZenTeachings/Translations/PlatformSutra_DharmaJew= el.pdf (454 pages - PDF) ____________________________________________ "Hui Neng & The Platform Sutra The Sixth Patriarch's Platform Sutra, translated by A.F.Price and Wong Mou-= Lam.=20 Philip Yampolsky's masterful translation of the Tun-Huang text (the oldest = extant version of the Platform Sutra) is here for downloading. This is the = entire Tun-Huang text, complete with Yampolsky's footnotes. The classic ver= sion. You have to buy the book to get Yampolsky's informative introductory = material.=20 Another complete version, translated by The Buddhist Text Translation Socie= ty with commentary by Tripitaka Master Hua is also available. Here you will= find it in plain text. Here as a 454 page .pdf document (not recommended f= or slow connections)=20 John R McRae's translation is here (172 pages) Carl Bielefeldt and Lewis Lancaster: T'an Ching (Platform Scripture) Bielef= eldt and Lancaster give an excellent overview of state of current (1975) tr= anslations and scholarship of the Platform Sutra.=20 from Philosophy East and West Vol. 25, No. 2, 1975 Autobiography of Hui Neng translated by A.F.Price and Wong Mou-Lam This is = an excerpt from the Platform Sutra"=20 http://www.thezensite.com/MainPages/translation_sutras.html M. Sufilight ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net=20 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 4:55 AM Subject: Re: Theos-World Some thoughts on Transparency Morten,=20 The Platform Sutra of the 6th Patriarch is excellent, and if you notice e= specially when a monk asks the Patriarche for "The Non-verbal Transmission = of Mind" the Patriarches reply was "Have you seen your original face?" , th= ere follows a hysterical effort of the monk to locate and find by an exhaus= tive search of his cell and where abouts the "face" the Patriarche asked hi= m about! lol. So here so also become exposred to the ten levels of conscous= ness of the Bodhisatva and the interesting route between the levels. I enjo= yed this Sutra myself long a ago. The habitual pattern is "clinging" to min= d itself.=20 John=20 ---- Original Message -----=20 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" =20 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2009 9:12:46 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific= =20 Subject: Re: Theos-World Some thoughts on Transparency=20 MKR wrote:=20 "MISLEADING SECRECY HAS GIVEN THE DEATH BLOW TO NUMEROUS ORGANIZATIONS."= =20 M. Sufilight says:=20 Yes. I wonder, what would happen with "MISLEADING OPENNESS"?=20 - - - A bit of Zen - - -=20 A)=20 FLAG=20 The wind was flapping a temple flag. Two monks were arguing about it. One= said the flag was moving; the other said the wind was moving. Arguing back= and forth they could come to no agreement.=20 The Sixth Patriarch said, "It is neither the wind nor the flag that is mo= ving. It is your mind that is moving."=20 - - -=20 B)=20 Zen Saying:=20 Be master of mind rather than mastered by mind.=20 - - -=20 C)=20 Zen Saying:=20 Zen mind is not Zen mind. That is, if you are attached to Zen mind, then = you have a problem, and your way is very narrow.=20 M. Sufilight=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: MKR=20 To: theos-talk=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 2:30 PM=20 Subject: Theos-World Some thoughts on Transparency=20 Recently when I visited a state government website in the USA, I looked a= t=20 the site map and was surprised and impressed to find Transparency as one = of=20 the topics.=20 .=20 Obviously, in the 21st century, transparency is becoming easier to implem= ent=20 with the help of Internet. All meetings can be streamed on-line and can a= lso=20 be archived for later viewing. All documentation can be put online and ca= n=20 be viewed any time.=20 .=20 In the USA, it is a legal requirement that all public bodies have to meet= in=20 open meetings and criminal penalties are there if anyone violates it. In = the=20 wisdom of those who formulated these requirements, they found it is a gre= at=20 safeguard to protect the public interests to prevent backdoor secret=20 decisions hurting the public.=20 .=20 The recent events in TS has high lighted the need for transparency. Start= ing=20 with the untruthful information about the health of the sitting president= at=20 the time of the election and subsequent shocking attempt to secretly=20 disenfranchise all members and seize the power of appointing the presiden= t=20 leaves much of a choice to members. These actions and continued silence o= f=20 the leaders, elders, long-time members, and other well known members, doe= s=20 not help increase the trust members have in their leaders.=20 .=20 Unless members are alert and vigilant, the continued inaction in the=20 bringing about transparency at the autonomous Section level activities, w= e=20 do not know what danger is being cooked behind the scenes. This is all th= e=20 more important because, the strongly divided voting pattern in the last G= C=20 meeting says a lot. It is in stark contrast with the almost unanimous=20 pattern that is the norm since the days of Olcott.=20 .=20 Fortunately, we are blessed with the benefit of the Master=E2=80=99s warn= ing -=20 MISLEADING SECRECY HAS GIVEN THE DEATH BLOW TO NUMEROUS ORGANIZATIONS.=20 .=20 Let us benefit from it. It is high time members demand their Section lead= ers=20 to immediately implement total transparency. It is very easy to do it.=20 .=20 MKR=20 .=20 visit *theosophy.net* < http://theosophy.net >=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Augoeides-222@comcast.net Wed Sep 02 12:50:56 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: augoeides-222@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 30522 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2009 19:50:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2009 19:50:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO QMTA14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net) (76.96.27.212) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2009 19:50:52 -0000 X-Received: from OMTA11.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.36]) by QMTA14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id bpX41c00A0mlR8UAEvqnn0; Wed, 02 Sep 2009 19:50:47 +0000 X-Received: from sz0103.ev.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.26.163]) by OMTA11.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id bvqn1c00M3X8bDG8XvqneS; Wed, 02 Sep 2009 19:50:47 +0000 Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 19:50:47 +0000 (UTC) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <1041388686.1887611251921047552.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Zimbra 5.0.16_GA_2927.RHEL5_64 (ZimbraWebClient - FF3.0 (Win)/5.0.16_GA_2927.RHEL5_64) X-Originating-IP: 76.96.27.212 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net Subject: Re: Theos-World Better news in Chennai highway project X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=314500470; y=0sEL0cpP94ggaLx3rSA8vzoOc7KednoxbG56C2Qhl55Z2ph16n2qKKzUKPMIEqfr X-Yahoo-Profile: sessesgenbarpharanges Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52801 Chuck, You weer sleeping lol. They already invaded. google "Rules for Radicals" by Saul David Alinsky lol. John ----- Original Message ----- From: Drpsionic@aol.com To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 8:00:38 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: Theos-World Better news in Chennai highway project OK, I finally figured it out! India changed the names of all its cities so the Pakistanis would not know where to aim their missles at. (Kind of like the town I live in. They have big machines that move roads around so the Communists won't be able to find their way around when they invade.) Chuck the Heretic _www.charlescosimano.com In a message dated 9/2/2009 8:11:44 A.M. Central Daylight Time, mkr777@gmail.com writes: I too would like to know more about her. It appears that she is from Kolkatta (formerly Calcutta) and worked for the Government. Anyone here from Kolkatta may also be able to tell us about her. MKR www.theosophy.www On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 7:48 AM, sampsakuukasjarvi < _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _sampsakuukasjarvi@sampsakuu_ (mailto: sampsakuukasjarvi@yahoo.com ) _> wrote: > > > Hi Preethi, > > I wanted to inform all Theosophists about the improved situation concerning > Adyar and the highway. > > You have been brave in your writings about Adyar, but I think some details > about the workers have been too personal to be forwarded. > > Btw, Preethi, I would be curious to know if you could tell us something > about Mrs. Kusum Sutapathy, the new international Secretary of the Adyar TS. > I assume you met her at Adyar while you worked there. She is not well-known. > Most people only know that her background (family) is very theosophical. > > Sampsa from Finland > > > --- In _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) _ , preethi > muthiah wrote: > > > > Thank you Sampsa for keeping me updated with news about Adyar. Otherwise, > I have had no news at all of it since Mrs Burnier threw me out when I chose > to stand up against the corruption she practises in the running of the > Estate. > > > > Fraternally > > > > Preethi > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Augoeides-222@comcast.net Wed Sep 02 12:52:59 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: augoeides-222@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 39855 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2009 19:52:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2009 19:52:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO QMTA05.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net) (76.96.30.48) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2009 19:52:56 -0000 X-Received: from OMTA16.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.72]) by QMTA05.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id bucD1c0071ZMdJ4A5vswfS; Wed, 02 Sep 2009 19:52:56 +0000 X-Received: from sz0103.ev.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.26.163]) by OMTA16.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id bvy91c0013X8bDG8cvy9TC; Wed, 02 Sep 2009 19:58:09 +0000 Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 19:52:56 +0000 (UTC) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <2123690612.1888491251921176512.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Zimbra 5.0.16_GA_2927.RHEL5_64 (ZimbraWebClient - FF3.0 (Win)/5.0.16_GA_2927.RHEL5_64) X-Originating-IP: 76.96.30.48 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net Subject: Re: Theos-World Better news in Chennai highway project X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=314500470; y=nl7Ly6Rmkk6WgkKLHGiK1wmJKwLi_A3By8L2C1aBqo-U0hnBvYkSAsf8Ho5OJRM1 X-Yahoo-Profile: sessesgenbarpharanges Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52802 mkr, Be positive about it! If it seems like there are two floors when there is only one then you have twice as many restrooms to run too and that is very important for a senior like you lol. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "MKR" To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 8:30:53 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: Theos-World Better news in Chennai highway project Not only that. Most of the main streets in major cities and buildings have been renamed. No one can locate even streets let alone buildings. Even in our office building in San Antonio, the suite numbers are jumbled and numbered like there are two floors when there is only one, so that a visitor is totally confused. You have to see the torture of a new mailman in delivering mail to the right suite. Often wrong mail is delivered. MKR On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 9:00 AM, < Drpsionic@aol.com > wrote: > > > OK, I finally figured it out! > > India changed the names of all its cities so the Pakistanis would not know > where to aim their missles at. (Kind of like the town I live in. They > have big machines that move roads around so the Communists won't be able to > > find their way around when they invade.) > > Chuck the Heretic > > _www.charlescosimano.com > > In a message dated 9/2/2009 8:11:44 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > mkr777@gmail.com writes: > > I too would like to know more about her. It appears that she is from > Kolkatta (formerly Calcutta) and worked for the Government. Anyone here > from > Kolkatta may also be able to tell us about her. > > MKR > > www.theosophy.www > > On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 7:48 AM, sampsakuukasjarvi < > > _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _sampsakuukasjarvi@sampsakuu_ > (mailto: sampsakuukasjarvi@yahoo.com ) _> > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Preethi, > > > > I wanted to inform all Theosophists about the improved situation > concerning > > Adyar and the highway. > > > > You have been brave in your writings about Adyar, but I think some > details > > about the workers have been too personal to be forwarded. > > > > Btw, Preethi, I would be curious to know if you could tell us something > > about Mrs. Kusum Sutapathy, the new international Secretary of the Adyar > TS. > > I assume you met her at Adyar while you worked there. She is not > well-known. > > Most people only know that her background (family) is very theosophical. > > > > Sampsa from Finland > > > > > > --- In _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ > (mailto: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) _ > , preethi > > muthiah wrote: > > > > > > Thank you Sampsa for keeping me updated with news about Adyar. > Otherwise, > > I have had no news at all of it since Mrs Burnier threw me out when I > chose > > to stand up against the corruption she practises in the running of the > > Estate. > > > > > > Fraternally > > > > > > Preethi > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Augoeides-222@comcast.net Wed Sep 02 12:55:19 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: augoeides-222@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 45950 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2009 19:55:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2009 19:55:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO QMTA09.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net) (76.96.30.96) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2009 19:55:16 -0000 X-Received: from OMTA13.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.52]) by QMTA09.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id brou1c00217UAYkA9vvHNc; Wed, 02 Sep 2009 19:55:17 +0000 X-Received: from sz0103.ev.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.26.163]) by OMTA13.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id bvvG1c00P3X8bDG8ZvvGGU; Wed, 02 Sep 2009 19:55:16 +0000 Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 19:55:15 +0000 (UTC) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <323386872.1889001251921315861.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Zimbra 5.0.16_GA_2927.RHEL5_64 (ZimbraWebClient - FF3.0 (Win)/5.0.16_GA_2927.RHEL5_64) X-Originating-IP: 76.96.30.96 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net Subject: Re: Theos-World Better news in Chennai highway project X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=314500470; y=p0hGlAyoZXkrn3_cJZT217xVaPv53FutdzLG-GvL3gnXe7A8xUiXSfyCYUOcWILx X-Yahoo-Profile: sessesgenbarpharanges Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52803 Mkr, Also, they made the street signs so confusing in order to protect seniors with Alzheimers who can now truly claim it is not their fault they cant find their way home, it is the local governments fault. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "MKR" To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 8:30:53 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: Theos-World Better news in Chennai highway project Not only that. Most of the main streets in major cities and buildings have been renamed. No one can locate even streets let alone buildings. Even in our office building in San Antonio, the suite numbers are jumbled and numbered like there are two floors when there is only one, so that a visitor is totally confused. You have to see the torture of a new mailman in delivering mail to the right suite. Often wrong mail is delivered. MKR On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 9:00 AM, < Drpsionic@aol.com > wrote: > > > OK, I finally figured it out! > > India changed the names of all its cities so the Pakistanis would not know > where to aim their missles at. (Kind of like the town I live in. They > have big machines that move roads around so the Communists won't be able to > > find their way around when they invade.) > > Chuck the Heretic > > _www.charlescosimano.com > > In a message dated 9/2/2009 8:11:44 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > mkr777@gmail.com writes: > > I too would like to know more about her. It appears that she is from > Kolkatta (formerly Calcutta) and worked for the Government. Anyone here > from > Kolkatta may also be able to tell us about her. > > MKR > > www.theosophy.www > > On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 7:48 AM, sampsakuukasjarvi < > > _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _sampsakuukasjarvi@sampsakuu_ > (mailto: sampsakuukasjarvi@yahoo.com ) _> > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Preethi, > > > > I wanted to inform all Theosophists about the improved situation > concerning > > Adyar and the highway. > > > > You have been brave in your writings about Adyar, but I think some > details > > about the workers have been too personal to be forwarded. > > > > Btw, Preethi, I would be curious to know if you could tell us something > > about Mrs. Kusum Sutapathy, the new international Secretary of the Adyar > TS. > > I assume you met her at Adyar while you worked there. She is not > well-known. > > Most people only know that her background (family) is very theosophical. > > > > Sampsa from Finland > > > > > > --- In _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ > (mailto: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) _ > , preethi > > muthiah wrote: > > > > > > Thank you Sampsa for keeping me updated with news about Adyar. > Otherwise, > > I have had no news at all of it since Mrs Burnier threw me out when I > chose > > to stand up against the corruption she practises in the running of the > > Estate. > > > > > > Fraternally > > > > > > Preethi > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Augoeides-222@comcast.net Wed Sep 02 12:59:02 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: augoeides-222@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 56560 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2009 19:58:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2009 19:58:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO QMTA13.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net) (76.96.27.243) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2009 19:58:59 -0000 X-Received: from OMTA09.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.20]) by QMTA13.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id brEU1c00C0S2fkCADvyrAU; Wed, 02 Sep 2009 19:58:51 +0000 X-Received: from sz0103.ev.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.26.163]) by OMTA09.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id bvyr1c0043X8bDG8Vvyrzp; Wed, 02 Sep 2009 19:58:51 +0000 Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 19:58:51 +0000 (UTC) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <506239331.1890911251921531030.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <1281453403.1890051251921430403.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Zimbra 5.0.16_GA_2927.RHEL5_64 (ZimbraWebClient - FF3.0 (Win)/5.0.16_GA_2927.RHEL5_64) X-Originating-IP: 76.96.27.243 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net Subject: Re: Theos-World Some thoughts on Transparency X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=314500470; y=mgGjxKpsSfP6Z8fFMRav3D7Q3--KI5a2yqg0v89CbEE-5LNhQ5vWRprGn0t7BhDk X-Yahoo-Profile: sessesgenbarpharanges Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52804 Morten,=20 Yes Tripitaka Master Hsuan Hua who wears the "Host Robe with 33 Partitions,= my lay Vow master. City of 10000 Buddha's at Talmidge, Ca., USA.=20 John=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" =20 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 11:10:18 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific= =20 Subject: Re: Theos-World Some thoughts on Transparency=20 This one?=20 "Hui Neng & The Platform Sutra" by Tripitaka Master Hua=20 http://www.thezensite.com/ZenTeachings/Translations/PlatformSutra_DharmaJew= el.pdf (454 pages - PDF)=20 ____________________________________________=20 "Hui Neng & The Platform Sutra=20 The Sixth Patriarch's Platform Sutra, translated by A.F.Price and Wong Mou-= Lam.=20 Philip Yampolsky's masterful translation of the Tun-Huang text (the oldest = extant version of the Platform Sutra) is here for downloading. This is the = entire Tun-Huang text, complete with Yampolsky's footnotes. The classic ver= sion. You have to buy the book to get Yampolsky's informative introductory = material.=20 Another complete version, translated by The Buddhist Text Translation Socie= ty with commentary by Tripitaka Master Hua is also available. Here you will= find it in plain text. Here as a 454 page .pdf document (not recommended f= or slow connections)=20 John R McRae's translation is here (172 pages)=20 Carl Bielefeldt and Lewis Lancaster: T'an Ching (Platform Scripture) Bielef= eldt and Lancaster give an excellent overview of state of current (1975) tr= anslations and scholarship of the Platform Sutra.=20 from Philosophy East and West Vol. 25, No. 2, 1975=20 Autobiography of Hui Neng translated by A.F.Price and Wong Mou-Lam This is = an excerpt from the Platform Sutra"=20 http://www.thezensite.com/MainPages/translation_sutras.html=20 M. Sufilight=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net=20 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 4:55 AM=20 Subject: Re: Theos-World Some thoughts on Transparency=20 Morten,=20 The Platform Sutra of the 6th Patriarch is excellent, and if you notice esp= ecially when a monk asks the Patriarche for "The Non-verbal Transmission of= Mind" the Patriarches reply was "Have you seen your original face?" , ther= e follows a hysterical effort of the monk to locate and find by an exhausti= ve search of his cell and where abouts the "face" the Patriarche asked him = about! lol. So here so also become exposred to the ten levels of conscousne= ss of the Bodhisatva and the interesting route between the levels. I enjoye= d this Sutra myself long a ago. The habitual pattern is "clinging" to mind = itself.=20 John=20 ---- Original Message -----=20 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" < global-theosophy@stofanet.dk >=20 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2009 9:12:46 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific=20 Subject: Re: Theos-World Some thoughts on Transparency=20 MKR wrote:=20 "MISLEADING SECRECY HAS GIVEN THE DEATH BLOW TO NUMEROUS ORGANIZATIONS."=20 M. Sufilight says:=20 Yes. I wonder, what would happen with "MISLEADING OPENNESS"?=20 - - - A bit of Zen - - -=20 A)=20 FLAG=20 The wind was flapping a temple flag. Two monks were arguing about it. One s= aid the flag was moving; the other said the wind was moving. Arguing back a= nd forth they could come to no agreement.=20 The Sixth Patriarch said, "It is neither the wind nor the flag that is movi= ng. It is your mind that is moving."=20 - - -=20 B)=20 Zen Saying:=20 Be master of mind rather than mastered by mind.=20 - - -=20 C)=20 Zen Saying:=20 Zen mind is not Zen mind. That is, if you are attached to Zen mind, then yo= u have a problem, and your way is very narrow.=20 M. Sufilight=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: MKR=20 To: theos-talk=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 2:30 PM=20 Subject: Theos-World Some thoughts on Transparency=20 Recently when I visited a state government website in the USA, I looked at= =20 the site map and was surprised and impressed to find Transparency as one of= =20 the topics.=20 .=20 Obviously, in the 21st century, transparency is becoming easier to implemen= t=20 with the help of Internet. All meetings can be streamed on-line and can als= o=20 be archived for later viewing. All documentation can be put online and can= =20 be viewed any time.=20 .=20 In the USA, it is a legal requirement that all public bodies have to meet i= n=20 open meetings and criminal penalties are there if anyone violates it. In th= e=20 wisdom of those who formulated these requirements, they found it is a great= =20 safeguard to protect the public interests to prevent backdoor secret=20 decisions hurting the public.=20 .=20 The recent events in TS has high lighted the need for transparency. Startin= g=20 with the untruthful information about the health of the sitting president a= t=20 the time of the election and subsequent shocking attempt to secretly=20 disenfranchise all members and seize the power of appointing the president= =20 leaves much of a choice to members. These actions and continued silence of= =20 the leaders, elders, long-time members, and other well known members, does= =20 not help increase the trust members have in their leaders.=20 .=20 Unless members are alert and vigilant, the continued inaction in the=20 bringing about transparency at the autonomous Section level activities, we= =20 do not know what danger is being cooked behind the scenes. This is all the= =20 more important because, the strongly divided voting pattern in the last GC= =20 meeting says a lot. It is in stark contrast with the almost unanimous=20 pattern that is the norm since the days of Olcott.=20 .=20 Fortunately, we are blessed with the benefit of the Master=E2=80=99s warnin= g -=20 MISLEADING SECRECY HAS GIVEN THE DEATH BLOW TO NUMEROUS ORGANIZATIONS.=20 .=20 Let us benefit from it. It is high time members demand their Section leader= s=20 to immediately implement total transparency. It is very easy to do it.=20 .=20 MKR=20 .=20 visit *theosophy.net* < http://theosophy.net >=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Wed Sep 02 14:03:28 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 80722 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2009 21:03:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2009 21:03:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO qw-out-2122.google.com) (74.125.92.25) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2009 21:03:25 -0000 X-Received: by qw-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 3so408298qwe.57 for ; Wed, 02 Sep 2009 14:02:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.55.18 with SMTP id s18mr2572525qcg.55.1251925344378; Wed, 02 Sep 2009 14:02:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <2123690612.1888491251921176512.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <2123690612.1888491251921176512.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 16:02:24 -0500 Message-ID: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 74.125.92.25 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Better news in Chennai highway project X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=P-VFa1h42Hujk8chSdgAtRJ2PRS2NfyiGats5liiXyfikuuXgXo X-Yahoo-Profile: ramadoss226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52805 No. There is only one restroom in the building. On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 2:52 PM, wrote: > > > mkr, > Be positive about it! If it seems like there are two floors when there is > only one then you have twice as many restrooms to run too and that is very > important for a senior like you lol. > > John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MKR" > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 8:30:53 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: Theos-World Better news in Chennai highway project > > Not only that. > > Most of the main streets in major cities and buildings have been renamed. > No > one can locate even streets let alone buildings. Even in our office > building > in San Antonio, the suite numbers are jumbled and numbered like there are > two floors when there is only one, so that a visitor is totally confused. > You have to see the torture of a new mailman in delivering mail to the > right > suite. Often wrong mail is delivered. > > MKR > > On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 9:00 AM, < Drpsionic@aol.com > wrote: > > > > > > > OK, I finally figured it out! > > > > India changed the names of all its cities so the Pakistanis would not > know > > where to aim their missles at. (Kind of like the town I live in. They > > have big machines that move roads around so the Communists won't be able > to > > > > find their way around when they invade.) > > > > Chuck the Heretic > > > > _www.charlescosimano.com > > > > In a message dated 9/2/2009 8:11:44 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > > mkr777@gmail.com writes: > > > > I too would like to know more about her. It appears that she is from > > Kolkatta (formerly Calcutta) and worked for the Government. Anyone here > > from > > Kolkatta may also be able to tell us about her. > > > > MKR > > > > www.theosophy.www > > > > On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 7:48 AM, sampsakuukasjarvi < > > > > _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _sampsakuukasjarvi@sampsakuu_ > > (mailto: sampsakuukasjarvi@yahoo.com 40yahoo.com>) _> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Preethi, > > > > > > I wanted to inform all Theosophists about the improved situation > > concerning > > > Adyar and the highway. > > > > > > You have been brave in your writings about Adyar, but I think some > > details > > > about the workers have been too personal to be forwarded. > > > > > > Btw, Preethi, I would be curious to know if you could tell us something > > > > about Mrs. Kusum Sutapathy, the new international Secretary of the > Adyar > > TS. > > > I assume you met her at Adyar while you worked there. She is not > > well-known. > > > Most people only know that her background (family) is very > theosophical. > > > > > > Sampsa from Finland > > > > > > > > > --- In _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) > _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ > > (mailto: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com>) _ > > , preethi > > > muthiah wrote: > > > > > > > > Thank you Sampsa for keeping me updated with news about Adyar. > > Otherwise, > > > I have had no news at all of it since Mrs Burnier threw me out when I > > chose > > > to stand up against the corruption she practises in the running of the > > > Estate. > > > > > > > > Fraternally > > > > > > > > Preethi > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Wed Sep 02 14:34:58 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24301 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2009 21:34:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2009 21:34:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-ma05.mx.aol.com) (64.12.100.31) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2009 21:34:55 -0000 X-Received: from imo-da04.mx.aol.com (imo-da04.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.202]) by imr-ma05.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n82LYeiw028994 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 2009 17:34:41 -0400 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-da04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.5.) id r.c53.559008bd (32915) for ; Wed, 2 Sep 2009 17:34:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 17:34:38 EDT To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 9.1 sub 5000 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Originating-IP: 64.12.100.31 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Better news in Chennai highway project X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=-hVDPGoxX52sldKvZL1VCIiqLpg_UTCiI-V5fhguI26F6I_-KQ X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52806 The idea that there are no accurate maps of Waukesha, Wisconsin has long been a running joke here. If you are going anywhere you have to get the directions and then download and print up a satellite picture as well otherwise you will become hopelessly lost. My wife, for some reason, is the only person on Earth who can find her way around this town. Chuck the Heretic _www.charlescosimano.com In a message dated 9/2/2009 10:31:55 A.M. Central Daylight Time, mkr777@gmail.com writes: Not only that. Most of the main streets in major cities and buildings have been renamed. No one can locate even streets let alone buildings. Even in our office building in San Antonio, the suite numbers are jumbled and numbered like there are two floors when there is only one, so that a visitor is totally confused. You have to see the torture of a new mailman in delivering mail to the right suite. Often wrong mail is delivered. MKR On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 9:00 AM, < _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _Drpsionic@aol.Drp_ (mailto:Drpsionic@aol.com) _> wrote: > > > OK, I finally figured it out! > > India changed the names of all its cities so the Pakistanis would not know > where to aim their missles at. (Kind of like the town I live in. They > have big machines that move roads around so the Communists won't be able to > > find their way around when they invade.) > > Chuck the Heretic > > _www.charlescosiman > > In a message dated 9/2/2009 8:11:44 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _mkr777@gmail.mkr_ (mailto:mkr777@gmail.com) _ writes: > > I too would like to know more about her. It appears that she is from > Kolkatta (formerly Calcutta) and worked for the Government. Anyone here > from > Kolkatta may also be able to tell us about her. > > MKR > > www.theosophy. > > On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 7:48 AM, sampsakuukasjarvi < > > _ (_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _http://www.charleschttp://www.c_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _) _sampsakuukasjarvi@) _sam > (mailto:_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _sampsakuukasjarvi@sampsakuu_ (mailto:sampsakuukasjarvi@yahoo.com) _ > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Preethi, > > > > I wanted to inform all Theosophists about the improved situation > concerning > > Adyar and the highway. > > > > You have been brave in your writings about Adyar, but I think some > details > > about the workers have been too personal to be forwarded. > > > > Btw, Preethi, I would be curious to know if you could tell us something > > about Mrs. Kusum Sutapathy, the new international Secretary of the Adyar > TS. > > I assume you met her at Adyar while you worked there. She is not > well-known. > > Most people only know that her background (family) is very theosophical. > > > > Sampsa from Finland > > > > > > --- In _ (_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _http://www.charleschttp://www.c_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _) _theos-talk@) _theos-t) > (mailto:_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) _ ) _ > , preethi > > muthiah wrote: > > > > > > Thank you Sampsa for keeping me updated with news about Adyar. > Otherwise, > > I have had no news at all of it since Mrs Burnier threw me out when I > chose > > to stand up against the corruption she practises in the running of the > > Estate. > > > > > > Fraternally > > > > > > Preethi > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > _ (_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _http://www.charleschttp://www.c_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _) > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Wed Sep 02 14:42:53 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 83349 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2009 21:42:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Sep 2009 21:42:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-mb02.mx.aol.com) (64.12.207.163) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Sep 2009 21:42:52 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (imo-ma03.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.138]) by imr-mb02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n82LgPCi031201 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 2009 17:42:25 -0400 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.5.) id r.bc6.50035941 (32915) for ; Wed, 2 Sep 2009 17:42:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 17:42:19 EDT To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 9.1 sub 5000 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Originating-IP: 64.12.207.163 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Better news in Chennai highway project X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=Em-smxPDAxbXBxK3oMJR2ESiZmiE2d5q4qTOrGodITE_wVh08Q X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52807 I read those years ago. Chuck the Heretic _www.charlescosimano.com In a message dated 9/2/2009 2:51:31 P.M. Central Daylight Time, Augoeides-222@comcast.net writes: Chuck, You weer sleeping lol. They already invaded. google "Rules for Radicals" by Saul David Alinsky lol. John ----- Original Message ----- From: _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _Drpsionic@aol.Drp_ (mailto:Drpsionic@aol.com) _ To: _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) _ Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 8:00:38 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: Theos-World Better news in Chennai highway project OK, I finally figured it out! India changed the names of all its cities so the Pakistanis would not know where to aim their missles at. (Kind of like the town I live in. They have big machines that move roads around so the Communists won't be able to find their way around when they invade.) Chuck the Heretic _www.charlescosiman_www.c In a message dated 9/2/2009 8:11:44 A.M. Central Daylight Time, _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _mkr777@gmail.mkr_ (mailto:mkr777@gmail.com) _ writes: I too would like to know more about her. It appears that she is from Kolkatta (formerly Calcutta) and worked for the Government. Anyone here from Kolkatta may also be able to tell us about her. MKR www.theosophy.www.theo On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 7:48 AM, sampsakuukasjarvi < _ ( _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _http://www.charleschttp://www.c_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _ ) _sampsakuukasjarvi@ ) _sampsakuuka (mailto: _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _sampsakuukasjarvi@sampsakuu_ (mailto:sampsakuukasjarvi@yahoo.com) _ ) _> wrote: > > > Hi Preethi, > > I wanted to inform all Theosophists about the improved situation concerning > Adyar and the highway. > > You have been brave in your writings about Adyar, but I think some details > about the workers have been too personal to be forwarded. > > Btw, Preethi, I would be curious to know if you could tell us something > about Mrs. Kusum Sutapathy, the new international Secretary of the Adyar TS. > I assume you met her at Adyar while you worked there. She is not well-known. > Most people only know that her background (family) is very theosophical. > > Sampsa from Finland > > > --- In _ ( _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _http://www.charleschttp://www.c_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _ ) _theos-talk@ ) _theos- ) (mailto: _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) _ ) _ , preethi > muthiah wrote: > > > > Thank you Sampsa for keeping me updated with news about Adyar. Otherwise, > I have had no news at all of it since Mrs Burnier threw me out when I chose > to stand up against the corruption she practises in the running of the > Estate. > > > > Fraternally > > > > Preethi > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _ ( _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _http://www.charleschttp://www.c_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _ ) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ringding2009@t-online.de Wed Sep 02 17:33:10 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding2009@t-online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 5532 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2009 00:33:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2009 00:33:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mailout01.t-online.de) (194.25.134.80) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2009 00:33:07 -0000 X-Received: from fwd03.aul.t-online.de by mailout01.t-online.de with smtp id 1Mj0G9-0001K8-05; Thu, 03 Sep 2009 02:33:05 +0200 X-Received: from bie (ZePFBEZJwh5di3bwJqP7voxDeJ+7KyEBCf7Je4GABMMgyoqVDMHZIOXk6pSK+oIQkD@[93.219.36.117]) by fwd03.aul.t-online.de with esmtp id 1Mj0G6-0GnMDC0; Thu, 3 Sep 2009 02:33:02 +0200 Message-ID: <4417BD551AC74047876E22598EA8FACA@bie> To: References: Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 02:29:14 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-ID: ZePFBEZJwh5di3bwJqP7voxDeJ+7KyEBCf7Je4GABMMgyoqVDMHZIOXk6pSK+oIQkD X-TOI-MSGID: f7f6e585-0775-496f-b453-5c28c71dc36b X-Originating-IP: 194.25.134.80 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Faked moon landing? Update -- Shock in Amsterdam X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=392256959; y=bfaK2kiEBC3nEEvky4OjavRmHXuCQuyCDSLSaJqXBZEDiAk_tldtAtqZLg X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52808 Sampsa, what makes someone sceptics (besides the problems from the point of view from theosophical teachings as de Purucker once declared about moon flights) is that they constantly spread new lies to cover old lies. And I do research on aids, moon landing etc. since more than 20 years and have seen and heard a lot and met a lot of people. One recent example. Since years the moon landing believers say that from Earth you cannot see the landing spot and the devices because of the atmosphere on Earth. The came the Hubble telescope. Then they said it is not strong enough. Jesco von Puttkamer in July 2009 suddenly shows off the Apollo protestants and declares in German tv that one can see from the Earth the landing spot and the devices left on the moon! I wrote a reader's letter as I often do and kindly asked for details. I've received the same answer I receive since twenty years from government, authorities and institutions: blablabla, blind believe, but no dteails, no facts. Perhaps someone here has an working address of von Puttkamer, I would like to ask him directly for more details. Thank you. Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: sampsakuukasjarvi To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 3:07 PM Subject: Theos-World Re: Faked moon landing? Update -- Shock in Amsterdam Cass, the last two letters of the link given by Frank didn't come properly so that they could connect to the site. It is Yahoo's fault. The technology of this forum is very old-fashioned. You can copy the link (with last two letters) and paste it into your browser's site row. Then it works. I believe Frank is right in his suspicion. There is something strange in how a lot of evidence about Moon flights has disappered. We can google "moon hoax" and see that the internet is full of sceptical information about Moon flights. Here is just one conspiracy site: http://conspiracyguy.wordpress.com/page/3/ (And again, if the url doesn't work, you can copy the address and paste it into browser) There is of course 360 kilos of real moon rocks on Earth, but sceptics say they are from meteors found in Antarctis or have been brought from Moon without astronauts... Sampsa --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "c.leest" wrote: > > Wha is fake, also this url is error, not to be find. > Christina > > > > > > > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Reitemeyer" > wrote: > > > > Shock in Amsterdam Museum. > > > > The stone from the moon landing turns out a fake: > > > > http://www.usatoday.com/travel/destinations/2009-08-27-rijksmuseum-moon-rock_N.htm > > > > First time in life I had serious doubts about accepted Western academic > > dogmas like virusses, inocculation, vivisection or moon landings after > > studying Blavatsky commentator and successor Gottfried de Purucker. > > After > > this initiation I made in-depth studies. Today the picture about the > > common > > conspiracy is quite clear. > > > > Interesting, that the biggest German newspaper prints the demand for > > research of all alleged moon stones. > > > > Theosophists should make inquiries that also research should be made on: > > > > - the original Apollo films > > - the original Apollo devices > > - the original Apollo space suits > > > > Bear in mind, that all films, devices, space suits etc. Nasa shows since > > 40 > > years in museums, exhibitions, are NOT original, but "reconstructions". > > > > I for one write oftren readers letters and inquiries to authorities. It > > is > > most interesting, what can turn out with this letters over the years. > > > > In the early 1980'ies I supported an Aids critical group, who demanded > > proofs that > > the HIV virus exists and that this virus is responsible for a bulk of 30 > > ordinary ilnesses. Billions of dollars "science" has sucked out this > > then > > from the taxpayers with no result until now... > > > > But end of the 1980'ies my search for truth was rewarded as I came to > > theosophy and with theosophy came the most needed answers for many > > lifelong > > bruning questions. > > > > But what of the burning questions of TODAY? > > What about the suffering of the billions of innocent people TODAY? > > > > Since 100 years the ULT sows doubt about the Masters of Wisdom and Their > > messengers. > > > > The ULT teaches the heresy that each theosophist can find the truth for > > him/her/it alone. > > > > But since 100 years fails to give proofs in form of answers to burning > > questions. > > > > Theosophists should also ask the ULT about the theosophical position to > > themes like virusses, moon landings etc. > > > > BTW, the moon stone is not the only fake on historical matters in > > Amsterdam... > > > > "License history" as KH would say ("Five years of Theosophy", p. 326). > > > > Frank > > > From ringding2009@t-online.de Wed Sep 02 17:34:10 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding2009@t-online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 75791 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2009 00:34:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2009 00:34:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mailout08.t-online.de) (194.25.134.20) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2009 00:34:07 -0000 X-Received: from fwd03.aul.t-online.de by mailout08.t-online.de with smtp id 1Mj0GA-0004PZ-01; Thu, 03 Sep 2009 02:33:06 +0200 X-Received: from bie (rxErNcZT8hTd7umLK+Yoru6FgoBIEMaE0hgUnY2TvgGE+0nE2IK6mpveybc10iWg4T@[93.219.36.117]) by fwd03.aul.t-online.de with esmtp id 1Mj0G6-0GnMDA0; Thu, 3 Sep 2009 02:33:02 +0200 Message-ID: To: References: Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 02:15:18 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-ID: rxErNcZT8hTd7umLK+Yoru6FgoBIEMaE0hgUnY2TvgGE+0nE2IK6mpveybc10iWg4T X-TOI-MSGID: ed204231-5a39-40a9-806e-f704f735627d X-Originating-IP: 194.25.134.20 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Faked moon landing? Update -- Shock in Amsterdam X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=392256959; y=-vcQGvT3EQoZarYtQWmkvWOlcGFL_WOoTaum0j_noutD0lM-Mkv9asGwKQ X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52809 Christina, the link is ok, it works at my computer. I use Outlook Express under Windows XP and Internet Explorer 8 and the link I sent to theos-talk works from the theos-talk email here. Perhaps it depends of the the software one uses, so please copy and paste the link to your browser: http://www.usatoday.com/travel/destinations/2009-08-27-rijksmuseum-moon-rock_N.htm Google for example for this words: "moon rock amsterdam Rijksmuseum" and you get around 4.000 entries. USA Today has as source of the research the Amsterdam Free University. Perhaps you are so cool and get the name of the scientists involved and even better, you get their work! One German expert and best seller author about the topic believes the fake moon rock story is desinformation. Let's see, how the storys goes on. Europe's biggest daily "Bild" prints in bold letters the demand that now all existing moon rocks should be examined, and that is anyway a good result as hush up and cover up is broken through. I thought anyway that some Blavatsky student my find it of some interest. Later more, I am gonna run. Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: c.leest To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 10:09 PM Subject: Theos-World Re: Faked moon landing? Update -- Shock in Amsterdam Wha is fake, also this url is error, not to be find. Christina --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Reitemeyer" wrote: > > Shock in Amsterdam Museum. > > The stone from the moon landing turns out a fake: > > http://www.usatoday.com/travel/destinations/2009-08-27-rijksmuseum-moon-rock_N.htm > > First time in life I had serious doubts about accepted Western academic > dogmas like virusses, inocculation, vivisection or moon landings after > studying Blavatsky commentator and successor Gottfried de Purucker. After > this initiation I made in-depth studies. Today the picture about the common > conspiracy is quite clear. > > Interesting, that the biggest German newspaper prints the demand for > research of all alleged moon stones. > > Theosophists should make inquiries that also research should be made on: > > - the original Apollo films > - the original Apollo devices > - the original Apollo space suits > > Bear in mind, that all films, devices, space suits etc. Nasa shows since 40 > years in museums, exhibitions, are NOT original, but "reconstructions". > > I for one write oftren readers letters and inquiries to authorities. It is > most interesting, what can turn out with this letters over the years. > > In the early 1980'ies I supported an Aids critical group, who demanded > proofs that > the HIV virus exists and that this virus is responsible for a bulk of 30 > ordinary ilnesses. Billions of dollars "science" has sucked out this then > from the taxpayers with no result until now... > > But end of the 1980'ies my search for truth was rewarded as I came to > theosophy and with theosophy came the most needed answers for many lifelong > bruning questions. > > But what of the burning questions of TODAY? > What about the suffering of the billions of innocent people TODAY? > > Since 100 years the ULT sows doubt about the Masters of Wisdom and Their > messengers. > > The ULT teaches the heresy that each theosophist can find the truth for > him/her/it alone. > > But since 100 years fails to give proofs in form of answers to burning > questions. > > Theosophists should also ask the ULT about the theosophical position to > themes like virusses, moon landings etc. > > BTW, the moon stone is not the only fake on historical matters in > Amsterdam... > > "License history" as KH would say ("Five years of Theosophy", p. 326). > > Frank > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ringding2009@t-online.de Wed Sep 02 17:43:35 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding2009@t-online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 80522 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2009 00:43:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m4.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2009 00:43:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mailout08.t-online.de) (194.25.134.20) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2009 00:43:32 -0000 X-Received: from fwd02.aul.t-online.de by mailout08.t-online.de with smtp id 1Mj0QF-0004J5-02; Thu, 03 Sep 2009 02:43:31 +0200 X-Received: from bie (Sa6SMEZU8hnOVNd1GAuUOQXzaptuUPvlehelo8-kPMs038RB117GhvGksdAqmW0gl3@[93.219.36.117]) by fwd02.aul.t-online.de with esmtp id 1Mj0QE-0g52240; Thu, 3 Sep 2009 02:43:30 +0200 Message-ID: To: References: <946986641.1166871251773969391.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 02:43:18 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-ID: Sa6SMEZU8hnOVNd1GAuUOQXzaptuUPvlehelo8-kPMs038RB117GhvGksdAqmW0gl3 X-TOI-MSGID: 37cf1902-fc8f-49b4-8f28-795667b149ff X-Originating-IP: 194.25.134.20 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Faked moon landing? Update -- Shock in Amsterdam X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=392256959; y=i4bpGsSxwTm8_xHbMRZocSgj5ixJ0zWEgnrdjAHbTFZzLvIkfpazr0lNVg X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52810 >America did land on the moon even the Russians say so lol! John, I have no problem with the moon landing. I would be happy, if they did it. But we live no longer in the middle ages and I want to KNOW and not BELIEVE. As there is still after 40 years no transparency and no research on first hand photos are allowed, I would not believe the story, even if the Buddha would tell it. Blavatsky did also teach not to believe anything another one says, because there are now forces around, which spread lies as never before in histroy and try to hypnotize whole nations. I am interested in facts, not in fairy tales. After 40 years and when a cell phone or a watch has more advanced mirco technique is the Apollo machines, there is no reason to block research for fear of technological theft. BTW, Russia is a really poor witness for Apollo. Russia never congratulated during the six alleged moon landings period. And Russia was since the October revolution in 1917 hidden colony of Wall Street. Blavatsky writes about the Rothschild conspiracy in the 1880'ies. In 1905 the red revolution nearly succeeded. William Q. Judge always was in fear that the satanic revolution of 1789 will never happen again. In 1917 it happened again. Over 90% of the red Soviet council were Jewish. They killed the Czar and the leading German elite of Russia, satanic, complete destruction of all culture and moral, bringing the country back into the middle ages. Moscow declared world revolution by violence and the "liberation" of all nations and the invading of all countries in Eastern and Western Europe. BTW, it was long before your pet politician big H entered the scene. Even during the alleged "cold war" Russia received always the newest military and civil technology from USA including money. So, there were good reasons, do be silent. The white five-point star (USA) and the yellow five-point star (USSR) where never enemies. And did not Ronnie Reagan admit it in his UN speech, when he spkoe of the alien force which is already among us and that USA and USSR will work together: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdKXJomf9Dc Guess, which alien force he hints to. It is that force, which never surrendered in 1945. BTW, I hope, I find the time to answer to your reply re the Slavonic race. Unfortunately you seem never have read serious works about it. I will give you some lessons from medivial sources next opportunity and you will see that and why the myth of an alleged Slavonic race is in my humble opinion one of the key topics of bastard socialism as HPB called it and one of the major causes for the tragic events in the 20th century in Europe. Best wishes, Frank From Augoeides-222@comcast.net Wed Sep 02 18:36:37 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: augoeides-222@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 51349 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2009 01:36:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2009 01:36:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO QMTA15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net) (76.96.27.228) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2009 01:36:35 -0000 X-Received: from OMTA15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.71]) by QMTA15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id c0BQ1c0091Y3wxoAF1cbg1; Thu, 03 Sep 2009 01:36:35 +0000 X-Received: from sz0103.ev.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.26.163]) by OMTA15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id c1ca1c00P3X8bDG8b1cap7; Thu, 03 Sep 2009 01:36:34 +0000 Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 01:36:34 +0000 (UTC) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <1885329048.2023421251941794865.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Zimbra 5.0.16_GA_2927.RHEL5_64 (ZimbraWebClient - FF3.0 (Win)/5.0.16_GA_2927.RHEL5_64) X-Originating-IP: 76.96.27.228 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Faked moon landing? Update -- Shock in Amsterdam X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=314500470; y=YKWB_3u6_UoGz7BCdl_sBhSFBtcCKeFpF2-TldWz6_Y3HJ8Ya2pguEG_SE9LUTJ7 X-Yahoo-Profile: sessesgenbarpharanges Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52811 Frank, Take your pills. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Reitemeyer" To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 5:43:18 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Faked moon landing? Update -- Shock in Amsterdam >America did land on the moon even the Russians say so lol! John, I have no problem with the moon landing. I would be happy, if they did it. But we live no longer in the middle ages and I want to KNOW and not BELIEVE. As there is still after 40 years no transparency and no research on first hand photos are allowed, I would not believe the story, even if the Buddha would tell it. Blavatsky did also teach not to believe anything another one says, because there are now forces around, which spread lies as never before in histroy and try to hypnotize whole nations. I am interested in facts, not in fairy tales. After 40 years and when a cell phone or a watch has more advanced mirco technique is the Apollo machines, there is no reason to block research for fear of technological theft. BTW, Russia is a really poor witness for Apollo. Russia never congratulated during the six alleged moon landings period. And Russia was since the October revolution in 1917 hidden colony of Wall Street. Blavatsky writes about the Rothschild conspiracy in the 1880'ies. In 1905 the red revolution nearly succeeded. William Q. Judge always was in fear that the satanic revolution of 1789 will never happen again. In 1917 it happened again. Over 90% of the red Soviet council were Jewish. They killed the Czar and the leading German elite of Russia, satanic, complete destruction of all culture and moral, bringing the country back into the middle ages. Moscow declared world revolution by violence and the "liberation" of all nations and the invading of all countries in Eastern and Western Europe. BTW, it was long before your pet politician big H entered the scene. Even during the alleged "cold war" Russia received always the newest military and civil technology from USA including money. So, there were good reasons, do be silent. The white five-point star (USA) and the yellow five-point star (USSR) where never enemies. And did not Ronnie Reagan admit it in his UN speech, when he spkoe of the alien force which is already among us and that USA and USSR will work together: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdKXJomf9Dc Guess, which alien force he hints to. It is that force, which never surrendered in 1945. BTW, I hope, I find the time to answer to your reply re the Slavonic race. Unfortunately you seem never have read serious works about it. I will give you some lessons from medivial sources next opportunity and you will see that and why the myth of an alleged Slavonic race is in my humble opinion one of the key topics of bastard socialism as HPB called it and one of the major causes for the tragic events in the 20th century in Europe. Best wishes, Frank [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From rialto9000@yahoo.com Thu Sep 03 08:01:12 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: rialto9000@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 28395 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2009 15:01:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2009 15:01:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n76.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (98.136.44.48) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2009 15:01:06 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n76.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2009 15:00:56 -0000 X-Received: from [67.195.9.82] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2009 15:00:56 -0000 X-Received: from [67.195.9.101] by t2.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2009 15:00:56 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2009 15:00:56 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 153715.13415.bm@omp105.mail.gq1.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 57577 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Sep 2009 15:00:55 -0000 Message-ID: <697077.54047.qm@web111604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: tf3.dZkVM1lXSe_12zQ_ZSeG.Nr3KFhz1224nwel49UM12YZlyF1GI8SqnqGBUtsAauDNjeSGOKO4SEv07j6stc2XRXXIWgzs8RTdQFScuWB15W9X6aP5h1hmMs0QzEyHBc_Wjhd2bFeEHbNWX7.2CBRNWUq4QRJJ5_eFPDr506dTo6qlWB48aXcoyfbWNblPY3o_aIhJUe13VCwYDE- X-Received: from [69.206.155.187] by web111604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 03 Sep 2009 08:00:54 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/6.1.2 YahooMailWebService/0.7.338.2 Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 08:00:54 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 98.136.44.48 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rialto Maldonado Subject: viewpoints X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=406647630; y=sE77XRiSzA_udSjfTjaIdvp5aTHAITWQrWHOPmCiajH_8X4Sig X-Yahoo-Profile: rialto9000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52812 I remember Anthea Hoskins in glouster place tell us in the audience on a su= ndaY =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 night that theosophy can change th= e world fdrom =A0yourself to collective service and =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0changing yourself changes your little corner of creation too, and t= hen with help from =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0others you can change your co= mmunity and your nation and the world accordingly. =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 She said the path is made by yourself alone by your own efforts and= you can choose =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 the gradient of the path by your own in= tentions as you walk it step by step. The path for =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0us in= kingston is to practice the three objects in a real world in reaL practica= l ways =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0to achieve it.Rada burnier said the s= ame thing in the same room a month later.I feel =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= that we should be at the cutting edge of civilization breaking new ground a= ll the time and =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0we should be worthy of being at the cutting edge sharpe and ready to trake on the =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0responsibilty of being a theosophist in the theosophica= l society in the real world. I agree =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 wiyh the comments of t= he forum which i studied too in detail. =20=20=20=20=20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ringding2009@t-online.de Thu Sep 03 18:08:32 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding2009@t-online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 13984 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2009 01:08:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Sep 2009 01:08:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mailout04.t-online.de) (194.25.134.18) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Sep 2009 01:08:28 -0000 X-Received: from fwd02.aul.t-online.de by mailout04.t-online.de with smtp id 1MjNHZ-0000Zq-00; Fri, 04 Sep 2009 03:08:05 +0200 X-Received: from bie (VOkq8kZbZh0lJ0NJw8RJWVCAfxd4muPL9Xfh18LxNgkHsWqpL8SARE26v-KANxyZP7@[93.219.35.248]) by fwd02.aul.t-online.de with esmtp id 1MjNHX-1O422y0; Fri, 4 Sep 2009 03:08:03 +0200 Message-ID: To: References: <1885329048.2023421251941794865.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 03:07:33 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-ID: VOkq8kZbZh0lJ0NJw8RJWVCAfxd4muPL9Xfh18LxNgkHsWqpL8SARE26v-KANxyZP7 X-TOI-MSGID: fbbaf197-d842-4c19-8c7a-71cae4060a62 X-Originating-IP: 194.25.134.18 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Faked moon landing? Update -- Shock in Amsterdam X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=392256959; y=A8cUJc1qaWZqKsCgvEyBAS944PM_tHIvPxBXpxddfhiJYooz-mzJ00oJzA X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52813 Ok John, I was really forgetting my vitamin C...:-) In any hierarchy which is openly or hidden under control of persons with a marxist/ bastard socialism (HPB) mindset, everyone, who does not agree with the Diamat or Dialectic Materialism and the Marxist world revolution through struggle of the classes and the erection of the "dictature of the working class" [metaphor for parasite elected ones, which never have worked] everyone, who does not only not support that conspiracy, but even if he/she/it [as a white male dominance rogue I was self-gendering my text to suit pc interests] has ANY DOUBT in Diamat or the "scientific proofen historical sequence of socialism and its aim of the final communstic world government" is declared MAD. Re the moon flights. As Ernst Stuhlinger has declared that on the screens in Houston control center there were no other pictures to see than on tv and that the fake "live" broadcast of Apollo 11 was also seen in the control center and that Nasa does not allow any research, the best source would be the still living astronauts. The astronauts are but astronots as no American was ever on the moon, which is clearly profen by the reverse speech examination: http://www.reversespeechinternational.com/moonlanding.php There are many, many lies in space, too. Another example: The establishment and the monopoly mass medias make believe that the Russian Juri Gagarin was the first man in space in 1961. The truth is that it was a German, Joachim Kuettner in 1943 in Peenemuende, Mecklenburg. When in USA his name was americanized to Jack Keuttner. >From Russian files just leaked by historian Friedrich Georg. For what reason history is faked? Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 3:36 AM Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Faked moon landing? Update -- Shock in Amsterdam Frank, Take your pills. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Reitemeyer" To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 5:43:18 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Faked moon landing? Update -- Shock in Amsterdam >America did land on the moon even the Russians say so lol! John, I have no problem with the moon landing. I would be happy, if they did it. But we live no longer in the middle ages and I want to KNOW and not BELIEVE. As there is still after 40 years no transparency and no research on first hand photos are allowed, I would not believe the story, even if the Buddha would tell it. Blavatsky did also teach not to believe anything another one says, because there are now forces around, which spread lies as never before in histroy and try to hypnotize whole nations. I am interested in facts, not in fairy tales. After 40 years and when a cell phone or a watch has more advanced mirco technique is the Apollo machines, there is no reason to block research for fear of technological theft. BTW, Russia is a really poor witness for Apollo. Russia never congratulated during the six alleged moon landings period. And Russia was since the October revolution in 1917 hidden colony of Wall Street. Blavatsky writes about the Rothschild conspiracy in the 1880'ies. In 1905 the red revolution nearly succeeded. William Q. Judge always was in fear that the satanic revolution of 1789 will never happen again. In 1917 it happened again. Over 90% of the red Soviet council were Jewish. They killed the Czar and the leading German elite of Russia, satanic, complete destruction of all culture and moral, bringing the country back into the middle ages. Moscow declared world revolution by violence and the "liberation" of all nations and the invading of all countries in Eastern and Western Europe. BTW, it was long before your pet politician big H entered the scene. Even during the alleged "cold war" Russia received always the newest military and civil technology from USA including money. So, there were good reasons, do be silent. The white five-point star (USA) and the yellow five-point star (USSR) where never enemies. And did not Ronnie Reagan admit it in his UN speech, when he spkoe of the alien force which is already among us and that USA and USSR will work together: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdKXJomf9Dc Guess, which alien force he hints to. It is that force, which never surrendered in 1945. BTW, I hope, I find the time to answer to your reply re the Slavonic race. Unfortunately you seem never have read serious works about it. I will give you some lessons from medivial sources next opportunity and you will see that and why the myth of an alleged Slavonic race is in my humble opinion one of the key topics of bastard socialism as HPB called it and one of the major causes for the tragic events in the 20th century in Europe. Best wishes, Frank [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Augoeides-222@comcast.net Thu Sep 03 20:52:40 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: augoeides-222@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 26945 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2009 03:52:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Sep 2009 03:52:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO QMTA04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net) (76.96.30.40) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Sep 2009 03:52:35 -0000 X-Received: from OMTA23.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.90]) by QMTA04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id cT3R1c0011wfjNsA4TsXyT; Fri, 04 Sep 2009 03:52:31 +0000 X-Received: from sz0103.ev.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.26.163]) by OMTA23.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id cTxS1c0083X8bDG8jTxSdx; Fri, 04 Sep 2009 03:57:26 +0000 Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 03:52:31 +0000 (UTC) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <1141870782.2478781252036351266.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <1424742902.2478301252036237996.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Zimbra 5.0.16_GA_2927.RHEL5_64 (ZimbraWebClient - FF3.0 (Win)/5.0.16_GA_2927.RHEL5_64) X-Originating-IP: 76.96.30.40 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Faked moon landing? Update -- Shock in Amsterdam X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=314500470; y=rRFo76TVvmBTZyV7_iyli8Z3p8Bdb0QB--2ct1taztvcWELwlKzPv2m0aw4fduCL X-Yahoo-Profile: sessesgenbarpharanges Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52814 Frank, Even India validates the Moon landing lol. Indian Satellite Confirms Moon Landing >>>http://www.moondaily.com/reports/Indian_satellite_confirmed_US_moon_landing_scientist_999.html<<< John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Reitemeyer" To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:07:33 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Faked moon landing? Update -- Shock in Amsterdam Ok John, I was really forgetting my vitamin C...:-) In any hierarchy which is openly or hidden under control of persons with a marxist/ bastard socialism (HPB) mindset, everyone, who does not agree with the Diamat or Dialectic Materialism and the Marxist world revolution through struggle of the classes and the erection of the "dictature of the working class" [metaphor for parasite elected ones, which never have worked] everyone, who does not only not support that conspiracy, but even if he/she/it [as a white male dominance rogue I was self-gendering my text to suit pc interests] has ANY DOUBT in Diamat or the "scientific proofen historical sequence of socialism and its aim of the final communstic world government" is declared MAD. Re the moon flights. As Ernst Stuhlinger has declared that on the screens in Houston control center there were no other pictures to see than on tv and that the fake "live" broadcast of Apollo 11 was also seen in the control center and that Nasa does not allow any research, the best source would be the still living astronauts. The astronauts are but astronots as no American was ever on the moon, which is clearly profen by the reverse speech examination: http://www.reversespeechinternational.com/moonlanding.php There are many, many lies in space, too. Another example: The establishment and the monopoly mass medias make believe that the Russian Juri Gagarin was the first man in space in 1961. The truth is that it was a German, Joachim Kuettner in 1943 in Peenemuende, Mecklenburg. When in USA his name was americanized to Jack Keuttner. >From Russian files just leaked by historian Friedrich Georg. For what reason history is faked? Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 3:36 AM Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Faked moon landing? Update -- Shock in Amsterdam Frank, Take your pills. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Reitemeyer" < ringding2009@t-online.de > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 5:43:18 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Faked moon landing? Update -- Shock in Amsterdam >America did land on the moon even the Russians say so lol! John, I have no problem with the moon landing. I would be happy, if they did it. But we live no longer in the middle ages and I want to KNOW and not BELIEVE. As there is still after 40 years no transparency and no research on first hand photos are allowed, I would not believe the story, even if the Buddha would tell it. Blavatsky did also teach not to believe anything another one says, because there are now forces around, which spread lies as never before in histroy and try to hypnotize whole nations. I am interested in facts, not in fairy tales. After 40 years and when a cell phone or a watch has more advanced mirco technique is the Apollo machines, there is no reason to block research for fear of technological theft. BTW, Russia is a really poor witness for Apollo. Russia never congratulated during the six alleged moon landings period. And Russia was since the October revolution in 1917 hidden colony of Wall Street. Blavatsky writes about the Rothschild conspiracy in the 1880'ies. In 1905 the red revolution nearly succeeded. William Q. Judge always was in fear that the satanic revolution of 1789 will never happen again. In 1917 it happened again. Over 90% of the red Soviet council were Jewish. They killed the Czar and the leading German elite of Russia, satanic, complete destruction of all culture and moral, bringing the country back into the middle ages. Moscow declared world revolution by violence and the "liberation" of all nations and the invading of all countries in Eastern and Western Europe. BTW, it was long before your pet politician big H entered the scene. Even during the alleged "cold war" Russia received always the newest military and civil technology from USA including money. So, there were good reasons, do be silent. The white five-point star (USA) and the yellow five-point star (USSR) where never enemies. And did not Ronnie Reagan admit it in his UN speech, when he spkoe of the alien force which is already among us and that USA and USSR will work together: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdKXJomf9Dc Guess, which alien force he hints to. It is that force, which never surrendered in 1945. BTW, I hope, I find the time to answer to your reply re the Slavonic race. Unfortunately you seem never have read serious works about it. I will give you some lessons from medivial sources next opportunity and you will see that and why the myth of an alleged Slavonic race is in my humble opinion one of the key topics of bastard socialism as HPB called it and one of the major causes for the tragic events in the 20th century in Europe. Best wishes, Frank [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From eletzerich@yahoo.com Fri Sep 04 04:49:48 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: eletzerich@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 37072 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2009 11:49:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Sep 2009 11:49:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web55505.mail.re4.yahoo.com) (206.190.58.214) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Sep 2009 11:49:42 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 6153 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Sep 2009 11:49:42 -0000 Message-ID: <41313.91344.qm@web55505.mail.re4.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 6Fs4OAsVM1nX_h_XHRc20F03uynaKwjqsVpketyG0faZhaam9SavS6x5Ti5F3iJ2CrUmcKx3DATEyM9QO9BdF5Ru3eVIw1rveCbD275VvLXPd1QoR0MepYdrUcFXR81O6OsEJS872iIOhi8QT00zj4KiOSQc1VkCswR_xUvtwmIBT9YJEeSuAfIn3baDl0h3KaSYzYSdaS8r6ZGDMBNTS1SKUpGk6UKLfiZZR5F05._oLP7hq6W2GmO8vHTh5AEdIZvxOKx.csGTF7EJw1BWr9q8EwfDTqBAci8crSEtY1mWkXW6HKbQz839phIF4tMaC3DeiIGn7rBfubbPnD1Ogr37..ysHuNgyGcg9ArY1VCy4SikjQ4p4P1fMxl9UW_ATuVqs2fZeOf5 X-Received: from [92.118.176.160] by web55505.mail.re4.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 04 Sep 2009 04:49:42 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1358.27 YahooMailWebService/0.7.338.2 Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 04:49:42 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.58.214 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Erica L. Georgiades" Subject: Hypatia Film X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24163419; y=hECTZN3QsaoV-8uHxrE3TQGG3OwlRdbJyhLh-JgeaQ7MCSKWFA X-Yahoo-Profile: eletzerich Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52815 Dear friends, A new film about the life of Hypatia of Alexandria will be soon released. To read more and see also the trailer visit the link below. http://ericageorgiades.wordpress.com/2009/09/04/hypatia-agora/ Erica [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Sat Sep 05 09:59:32 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 57798 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2009 16:59:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Sep 2009 16:59:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mx04.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.14) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Sep 2009 16:59:26 -0000 X-Received: from 56340ee0.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.14.224] helo=khidr) by mx04.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1MjybZ-0002xL-09 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 05 Sep 2009 18:59:13 +0200 Message-ID: <000601ca2e4a$8221c7f0$e00e3456@khidr> To: Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 19:01:27 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.14 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" Subject: Ordinary Science can only lead to crass materialism X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=KVPAkpdah0okp8y_mszANP5TbH2P39JEQLg84hQktL3s X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52816 Dear friends My views are: I am almost finished translating the T. S. Glossary by H. P. Blavatsky (pos= thumously published, 1892) into danish. Here are a few words from the T.S. Glossary on terms from Buddhismen, which= might be useful to consider... "Triratna, or Ratnatraya (Sk) The Three Jewels, the technical term for the = well-known formula "Buddha, Dharma and Sangha" (or Samgha), the two latter = terms meaning, in modern interpretation, "religious law" (Dharma), and the = "priesthood" (Sangha). Esoteric Philosophy, however, would regard this as a= very loose rendering. The words "Buddha, Dharma and Sangha", ought to be p= ronounced as in the days of Gautama, the Lord Buddha, namely "Bodhi, Dharma= and Sangha and interpreted to mean "Wisdom, its laws and priests ", the latter in the sense of " spiritual exp= onents ", or adepts. Buddha, however, being regarded as personified " Bodhi= " on earth, a true avatar of =C2di-Buddha, Dharma gradually came to be rega= rded as his own particular law, and Sangha as his own special priesthood. N= evertheless, p342 it is the profane of the later (now modern) teachings who have shown a grea= ter degree of natural intuition than the actual interpreters of Dharma, the= Buddhist priests. The people see the Triratna in the three statues of Amit= =E2bha, Avalokiteshvara and Maitreya Buddha; i.e., in Boundless Light" or U= niversal Wisdom, an impersonal principle which is the correct meaning of = =C2di-Buddha; in the "Supreme Lord" of the Bodhisattvas, or Avalokiteshvara= ; and in Maitreya Buddha, the symbol of the terrestrial and human Buddha, t= he "M=E2nushi Buddha ". Thus, even though the uninitiated do call these thr= ee statues "the Buddhas of the Past, the Present and the Future ", still ev= ery follower of true philosophical Buddhism-called "atheistical" by Mr. Eit= el- would explain the term Triratna correctly. The philosopher of the Yogac= h=E2rya School would say-as well he could-"Dharma is not a person but an un= conditioned and underived entity, combining in itself the spiritual and mat= erial principles of the universe, whilst from Dharma proceeded, by emanatio= n, Buddha [ Bodhi rather], as the creative energy which produced, in conjun= ction with Dharma, the third factor in the trinity, viz., 'Samgha', which i= s the comprehensive sum total of all real life." Samgha, then, is not and c= annot be that which it is now understood to be, namely, the actual " priest= hood"; for the latter is not the sum total of all real life, but only of re= ligious life. The real primitive significance of the word Samgha or "Sangha= " applies to the Arhats or Bhikshus, or the "initiates", alone, that is to = say to the real exponents of Dharma-the divine law and wisdom, coming to th= em as a reflex light from the one "boundless light ". Such is its philosoph= ical meaning. And yet, far from satisfying the scholars of the Western race= s, this seems only to irritate them; for E. J. Eitel, of Hongkong, remarks,= as to the above : " Thus the dogma of a Triratna, originating from three p= rimitive articles of faith, and at one time culminating in the conception o= f three persons, a trinity in unity, has degenerated into a metaphysical th= eory of the evolution of three abstract principles "! And if one of the abl= est European scholars will sacrifice every philosophical ideal to gross ant= hropomorphism, then what can Buddhism with its subtle metaphysics expect at= the hands of ignorant missionaries? Trisharana (Sk.). The same as" Triratna "and accepted by both the Northern = and Southern Churches of Buddhism. After the death of the Buddha it was ado= pted by the councils as a mere kind of formula fidei, enjoining "to take re= fuge in Buddha ", "to take refuge in Dharma ", and "to take refuge in Sangh= a ", or his Church, in the sense in which it is now interpreted; but it is = not in this sense that the "Light of Asia" would have taught the formula. O= f Trik=E2ya, Mr. E. J. Eitel, of Hongkong, tells us in his Handbook of Chi= nese Buddhism that this "tricho- p343 tomism was taught with regard to the nature of all Buddhas. Bodhi being the= characteristic of a Buddha" -a distinction was made between "essential Bod= hi" as the attribute of the Dharmak=E2ya, i.e., "essential body"; "reflecte= d Bodhi" as the attribute of Sambhogak=E2ya; and "practical Bodhi" as the a= ttribute of Nirm=E2nak=E2ya. Buddha combining in himself these three condi= tions of existence, was said to be living at the same time in three differe= nt spheres. Now, this shows how greatly misunderstood is the purely panthei= stical and philosophical teaching. Without stopping to enquire how even a D= harmak=E2ya vesture can have any "attribute" in Nirv=E2na, which state is s= hown, in philosophical Brahmanism as much as in Buddhism, to be absolutely = devoid of any attribute as conceived by human finite thought-it will be suf= ficient to point to the following -(1) the Nirm=E2nak=E2ya vesture is prefe= rred by the "Buddhas of Compassion" to that of the Dharmak=E2ya state, prec= isely because the latter precludes him who attains it from any communicatio= n or relation with the finite, i.e., with humanity; (2) it is not Buddha (G= autama, the mortal man, or any other personal Buddha) who lives ubiquitousl= y in "three different spheres, at the same time ", but Bodhi, the universal= and abstract principle of divine wisdom, symbolised in philosophy by =C2di= -Buddha. It is the latter that is ubiquitous because it is the universal es= sence or principle. It is Bodhi, or the spirit of Buddhaship, which, having= resolved itself into its primordial homogeneous essence and merged into it= , as Brahm=E2 (the universe) merges into Parabrahm, the ABSOLUTENESS-that i= s meant under the name of "essential Bodhi ". For the Nirv=E2nee, or Dhy=E2= ni Buddha, must be supposed-by living in Ar=FBpadh=E2tu, the formless state= , and in Dharmak=E2ya-to be that " essential Bodhi" itself. It is the Dhy= =E2ni Bodhisattvas, the primordial rays of the universal Bodhi, who live in= "reflected Bodhi" in R=E2padh=E2tu, or the world of subjective "forms" ; a= nd it is the Nirm=E2nak=E2yas (plural) who upon ceasing their lives of " pr= actical Bodhi", in the "enlightened" or Buddha forms, remain voluntarily in= the K=E2madh=E2tu (the world of desire), whether in objective forms on ear= th or in subjective states in its sphere (the second Buddhakshetra). This t= hey do in order to watch over, protect and help mankind. Thus, it is neithe= r one Buddha who is meant, nor any particular avatar of the collective Dhy= =E2ni Buddhas, but verily =C2di-Bodhi-the first Logos, whose primordial ray= is Mah=E2buddhi, the Universal Soul, ALAYA, whose flame is ubiquitous, and= whose influence has a different sphere in each of the three forms of exist= ence, because, once again, it is Universal Being itself or the reflex of th= e Absolute. Hence, if it is philosophical to speak of Bodhi, which "as Dhy= =E2ni Buddha rules in the domain of the spiritual" (fourth Buddhakshetra or= region of Buddha); and of the p344 Dhy=E2ni Bodhisattvas "ruling in the third Buddhakshetra "or the domain of = ideation; and even of the M=E2nushi Buddhas, who are in the second Buddhaks= hetra as Nirmanak=E2yas-to apply the "idea of a unity in trinity" to three = personalities-is highly unphilosophical." http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/ATUVWXYZ.htm A more precise version is here: http://www.archive.org/stream/theosophicalglo00meadgoog#page/n351/mode/1up - - - - - - - A few words by H. P. Blavatsky on ordinary science and other issue.... IS THEOSOPHY A RELIGION? "Theosophy, as repeatedly declared in print and viva voce by its members an= d officers, proceeds on diametrically opposite lines to those which are tro= dden by the Church; and Theosophy rejects the methods of Science, since her= inductive methods can only lead to crass materialism. Yet, de facto, Theos= ophy claims to be both "RELIGION" and "SCIENCE," for theosophy is the essen= ce of both. It is for the sake and love of the two divine abstractions--i.e= ., theosophical religion and science, that its Society has become the volun= teer scavenger of both orthodox religion and modern science; as also the re= lentless Nemesis of those who have degraded the two noble truths to their o= wn ends and purposes, and then divorced each violently from the other, thou= gh the two are and must be one. To prove this is also one of our objects in= the present paper. " http://www.blavatsky.net/blavatsky/arts/IsTheosophyAReligion.htm M. Sufilight [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From professorjaya@yahoo.com Sat Sep 05 10:32:15 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: professorjaya@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 75440 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2009 17:32:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Sep 2009 17:32:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web65507.mail.ac4.yahoo.com) (76.13.9.51) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Sep 2009 17:32:09 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 20718 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Sep 2009 17:31:46 -0000 Message-ID: <934306.19152.qm@web65507.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 24c_mzwVM1k4pI.IgWI475H3hAqi.4GCDKGGkvri_JVofpO2w5_aCccf4VBtbGSLfdh4tCtuGNceOCZ9r1JPu5KC_lCvqpcFRrjBQbmCoDmg9zGp2UviLHM9vwT6CU2x2UlLuAis8SrP1sIyS59zHL3SDa6stxvUcbXSPF5vCCuxokv_Pk_alcGBCrYWAB6G.SEc3VgX5MYW1YVNviS8PVDFJ3e8feJmhIfV7NPZecQce8j9S8cqqaI5Ff_NufOl4nNX6u8ZtDxYRVejhVvhC4An4XrXz2jw33edKCVPoXB4_Hc8HUjWptB8AiOV7vjmrIblw7G.2hJ53SgLFxvE0j6xEFEZ7NTMZnNnaqSLYXVxXSj.NqSmV1bJgsY.4uqoRpPd X-Received: from [198.188.96.4] by web65507.mail.ac4.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 05 Sep 2009 10:31:45 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/6.1.2 YahooMailWebService/0.7.338.2 Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 10:31:45 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <41313.91344.qm@web55505.mail.re4.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 76.13.9.51 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Jayananda Hiranandani Subject: Re: Theos-World Hypatia Film X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=136023466; y=-DhL9cFYc-Q0toqn_uLSBONFI8zMsycX_4cd9vXIeqxSY7PokK4CvA X-Yahoo-Profile: professorjaya Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52817 Dear Erica: =A0 Many thanks for this excellent message. =A0 I will try to see it. In December I am planning to undergo surgery. I do no= t know how it will affect my seeing this film. Surgery is my main concern n= ow. I hope that the film will be available on DVD. =A0 With best wishes for you and your husband. =A0 Yours fraternally, Jayananda H. Hiranandani --- On Fri, 9/4/09, Erica L. Georgiades wrote: From: Erica L. Georgiades Subject: Theos-World Hypatia Film To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 4, 2009, 4:49 AM =A0=20 Dear friends, A new film about the life of Hypatia of Alexandria will be soon released. T= o read more and see also the trailer visit the link below. http://ericageorgia des.wordpress. com/2009/ 09/04/hypatia- agora/ Erica [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20=20=20=20=20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Augoeides-222@comcast.net Sat Sep 05 12:05:45 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: augoeides-222@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4932 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2009 19:05:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Sep 2009 19:05:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO QMTA10.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net) (76.96.30.17) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Sep 2009 19:05:39 -0000 X-Received: from OMTA06.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.51]) by QMTA10.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id d73t1c00216AWCUAA75Z1v; Sat, 05 Sep 2009 19:05:33 +0000 X-Received: from sz0103.ev.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.26.163]) by OMTA06.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id d75Y1c00T3X8bDG8S75Yxb; Sat, 05 Sep 2009 19:05:33 +0000 Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 19:05:32 +0000 (UTC) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <489091043.2913041252177532933.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <1715751676.2912451252177356099.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Zimbra 5.0.16_GA_2927.RHEL5_64 (ZimbraWebClient - FF3.0 (Win)/5.0.16_GA_2927.RHEL5_64) X-Originating-IP: 76.96.30.17 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net Subject: Re: Theos-World Ordinary Science can only lead to crass materialism X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=314500470; y=LuPPSdJyAd7QQ7Vn5X3Mfj-IXai22XTMUpXgCnrdYFGQu4ENnKXQGC3UMfIdc57O X-Yahoo-Profile: sessesgenbarpharanges Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52818 Morten,=20 Thanks nice content and post. All this is correlate also to Mandukya Upanis= had the 4 states, the Pythagorean Tetractys 1,2,3,4 how do we count 10( the= re are 10 levels of the Bodhi Consciousness in Mahayana Ch'an)! Also somewh= ere in your referefnce work it probably details that "Nirvana" is not a sin= gle Absolute state that is arrived at only by the physical death but has be= en also describes as having "four" States or stages which again align to Ma= ndukya and can advanced to during living incarnation (Nirmankaya can have p= hysical incarnate or subtle continious state of manisfestation that is non-= carnate). Also on possible "short " form of this could be "Unity of Three--= ---The Divine Fire in the Midst of Life and Wisdom"=20 I quite enjoyed the post thanks. This is an example of an ideal model that = Theosophical Forum posts reflect.=20 John=20 ----- Original Message ----=20 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" =20 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Saturday, September 5, 2009 10:01:27 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific= =20 Subject: Theos-World Ordinary Science can only lead to crass materialism=20 Dear friends=20 My views are:=20 I am almost finished translating the T. S. Glossary by H. P. Blavatsky (pos= thumously published, 1892) into danish.=20 Here are a few words from the T.S. Glossary on terms from Buddhismen, which= might be useful to consider...=20 "Triratna, or Ratnatraya (Sk) The Three Jewels, the technical term for the = well-known formula "Buddha, Dharma and Sangha" (or Samgha), the two latter = terms meaning, in modern interpretation, "religious law" (Dharma), and the = "priesthood" (Sangha). Esoteric Philosophy, however, would regard this as a= very loose rendering. The words "Buddha, Dharma and Sangha", ought to be p= ronounced as in the days of Gautama, the Lord Buddha, namely "Bodhi, Dharma= and Sangha and interpreted to mean=20 "Wisdom, its laws and priests ", the latter in the sense of " spiritual exp= onents ", or adepts. Buddha, however, being regarded as personified " Bodhi= " on earth, a true avatar of =C3=82di-Buddha, Dharma gradually came to be r= egarded as his own particular law, and Sangha as his own special priesthood= . Nevertheless,=20 p342=20 it is the profane of the later (now modern) teachings who have shown a grea= ter degree of natural intuition than the actual interpreters of Dharma, the= Buddhist priests. The people see the Triratna in the three statues of Amit= =C3=A2bha, Avalokiteshvara and Maitreya Buddha; i.e., in Boundless Light" o= r Universal Wisdom, an impersonal principle which is the correct meaning of= =C3=82di-Buddha; in the "Supreme Lord" of the Bodhisattvas, or Avalokitesh= vara; and in Maitreya Buddha, the symbol of the terrestrial and human Buddh= a, the "M=C3=A2nushi Buddha ". Thus, even though the uninitiated do call th= ese three statues "the Buddhas of the Past, the Present and the Future ", s= till every follower of true philosophical Buddhism-called "atheistical" by = Mr. Eitel- would explain the term Triratna correctly. The philosopher of th= e Yogach=C3=A2rya School would say-as well he could-"Dharma is not a person= but an unconditioned and underived entity, combining in itself the spiritu= al and material principles of the universe, whilst from Dharma proceeded, b= y emanation, Buddha [ Bodhi rather], as the creative energy which produced,= in conjunction with Dharma, the third factor in the trinity, viz., 'Samgha= ', which is the comprehensive sum total of all real life." Samgha, then, is= not and cannot be that which it is now understood to be, namely, the actua= l " priesthood"; for the latter is not the sum total of all real life, but = only of religious life. The real primitive significance of the word Samgha = or "Sangha" applies to the Arhats or Bhikshus, or the "initiates", alone, t= hat is to say to the real exponents of Dharma-the divine law and wisdom, co= ming to them as a reflex light from the one "boundless light ". Such is its= philosophical meaning. And yet, far from satisfying the scholars of the We= stern races, this seems only to irritate them; for E. J. Eitel, of Hongkong= , remarks, as to the above : " Thus the dogma of a Triratna, originating fr= om three primitive articles of faith, and at one time culminating in the co= nception of three persons, a trinity in unity, has degenerated into a metap= hysical theory of the evolution of three abstract principles "! And if one = of the ablest European scholars will sacrifice every philosophical ideal to= gross anthropomorphism, then what can Buddhism with its subtle metaphysics= expect at the hands of ignorant missionaries?=20 Trisharana (Sk.). The same as" Triratna "and accepted by both the Northern = and Southern Churches of Buddhism. After the death of the Buddha it was ado= pted by the councils as a mere kind of formula fidei, enjoining "to take re= fuge in Buddha ", "to take refuge in Dharma ", and "to take refuge in Sangh= a ", or his Church, in the sense in which it is now interpreted; but it is = not in this sense that the "Light of Asia" would have taught the formula. O= f Trik=C3=A2ya, Mr. E. J. Eitel, of Hongkong, tells us in his Handbook of C= hinese Buddhism that this "tricho-=20 p343=20 tomism was taught with regard to the nature of all Buddhas. Bodhi being the= characteristic of a Buddha" -a distinction was made between "essential Bod= hi" as the attribute of the Dharmak=C3=A2ya, i.e., "essential body"; "refle= cted Bodhi" as the attribute of Sambhogak=C3=A2ya; and "practical Bodhi" as= the attribute of Nirm=C3=A2nak=C3=A2ya. Buddha combining in himself these = three conditions of existence, was said to be living at the same time in th= ree different spheres. Now, this shows how greatly misunderstood is the pur= ely pantheistical and philosophical teaching. Without stopping to enquire h= ow even a Dharmak=C3=A2ya vesture can have any "attribute" in Nirv=C3=A2na,= which state is shown, in philosophical Brahmanism as much as in Buddhism, = to be absolutely devoid of any attribute as conceived by human finite thoug= ht-it will be sufficient to point to the following -(1) the Nirm=C3=A2nak= =C3=A2ya vesture is preferred by the "Buddhas of Compassion" to that of the= Dharmak=C3=A2ya state, precisely because the latter precludes him who atta= ins it from any communication or relation with the finite, i.e., with human= ity; (2) it is not Buddha (Gautama, the mortal man, or any other personal B= uddha) who lives ubiquitously in "three different spheres, at the same time= ", but Bodhi, the universal and abstract principle of divine wisdom, symbo= lised in philosophy by =C3=82di-Buddha. It is the latter that is ubiquitous= because it is the universal essence or principle. It is Bodhi, or the spir= it of Buddhaship, which, having resolved itself into its primordial homogen= eous essence and merged into it, as Brahm=C3=A2 (the universe) merges into = Parabrahm, the ABSOLUTENESS-that is meant under the name of "essential Bodh= i ". For the Nirv=C3=A2nee, or Dhy=C3=A2ni Buddha, must be supposed-by livi= ng in Ar=C3=BBpadh=C3=A2tu, the formless state, and in Dharmak=C3=A2ya-to b= e that " essential Bodhi" itself. It is the Dhy=C3=A2ni Bodhisattvas, the p= rimordial rays of the universal Bodhi, who live in "reflected Bodhi" in R= =C3=A2padh=C3=A2tu, or the world of subjective "forms" ; and it is the Nirm= =C3=A2nak=C3=A2yas (plural) who upon ceasing their lives of " practical Bod= hi", in the "enlightened" or Buddha forms, remain voluntarily in the K=C3= =A2madh=C3=A2tu (the world of desire), whether in objective forms on earth = or in subjective states in its sphere (the second Buddhakshetra). This they= do in order to watch over, protect and help mankind. Thus, it is neither o= ne Buddha who is meant, nor any particular avatar of the collective Dhy=C3= =A2ni Buddhas, but verily =C3=82di-Bodhi-the first Logos, whose primordial = ray is Mah=C3=A2buddhi, the Universal Soul, ALAYA, whose flame is ubiquitou= s, and whose influence has a different sphere in each of the three forms of= existence, because, once again, it is Universal Being itself or the reflex= of the Absolute. Hence, if it is philosophical to speak of Bodhi, which "a= s Dhy=C3=A2ni Buddha rules in the domain of the spiritual" (fourth Buddhaks= hetra or region of Buddha); and of the=20 p344=20 Dhy=C3=A2ni Bodhisattvas "ruling in the third Buddhakshetra "or the domain = of ideation; and even of the M=C3=A2nushi Buddhas, who are in the second Bu= ddhakshetra as Nirmanak=C3=A2yas-to apply the "idea of a unity in trinity" = to three personalities-is highly unphilosophical."=20 http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/ATUVWXYZ.htm=20 A more precise version is here:=20 http://www.archive.org/stream/theosophicalglo00meadgoog#page/n351/mode/1up= =20 - - - - - - -=20 A few words by H. P. Blavatsky on ordinary science and other issue....=20 IS THEOSOPHY A RELIGION?=20 "Theosophy, as repeatedly declared in print and viva voce by its members an= d officers, proceeds on diametrically opposite lines to those which are tro= dden by the Church; and Theosophy rejects the methods of Science, since her= inductive methods can only lead to crass materialism. Yet, de facto, Theos= ophy claims to be both "RELIGION" and "SCIENCE," for theosophy is the essen= ce of both. It is for the sake and love of the two divine abstractions--i.e= ., theosophical religion and science, that its Society has become the volun= teer scavenger of both orthodox religion and modern science; as also the re= lentless Nemesis of those who have degraded the two noble truths to their o= wn ends and purposes, and then divorced each violently from the other, thou= gh the two are and must be one. To prove this is also one of our objects in= the present paper. "=20 http://www.blavatsky.net/blavatsky/arts/IsTheosophyAReligion.htm=20 M. Sufilight=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From eletzerich@yahoo.com Sun Sep 06 06:11:47 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: eletzerich@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 42813 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2009 13:11:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Sep 2009 13:11:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web55508.mail.re4.yahoo.com) (206.190.58.217) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Sep 2009 13:11:43 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 6648 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Sep 2009 13:10:31 -0000 Message-ID: <106046.5846.qm@web55508.mail.re4.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: Z3V7ghkVM1m0ZYhCjW4BzqoxjFpgH.A8ZtHHVhDdDjRay3PVZaEzVjm8ZK99yy9wgPZFef.POsx7iESzLAqHYfFvANDSxWYGjRWD0Bzfcmktq6YB2_cyyh0Ls6dp_YBOcxwoiTJ535Zzy2Q03V8MMUlj4Ay86QMR37tjZ7b_0ewPm742DEmuG8oFCKjIamQLDnepnCBlHuMS4pgbWpbLvHDL0yaSZJ3GNj_DD2g0sVWtsYESx0SCkJCqxdxlsU3Ri5aQs8l8PkB0zAvm0nvH6m2Oue6A1DJG0PISIpcnrm_kI0YSF5kzPlmvezmujNZwZ89xM_u4c_e25VFQoua2dgEy3P4NIdGwZaUpjyA1aklI3jxdOFHCJnALtGABOw9Uu1PaREPPM_jo X-Received: from [92.118.176.160] by web55508.mail.re4.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 06 Sep 2009 06:10:31 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1358.27 YahooMailWebService/0.7.338.2 Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 06:10:31 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.58.217 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Erica L. Georgiades" Subject: =?utf-8?B?RmFuYXRpY2lzbSDigJMgQW4gRW5jeWNsaWNhbCBhZ2FpbnN0IHRoZSBUaGVv?= =?utf-8?B?c29waGljYWwgU29jaWV0eSBpbiBHcmVlY2Uu?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24163419; y=ygz-PzaSmimXbR-ry0pAIgaPhd5uadvwV5bsBfQ7nkcT-QOp1w X-Yahoo-Profile: eletzerich Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52819 Friends, Many of you will remember the problems the T.S. in Greece had with the church, because of the conference about the Kabeirian Mysteries. Now the Encyclical of the Bishop of Alexandropolis is full translated to English and online, along with a short introduction about what happened. You can see that on the link below: http://ericageorgiades.wordpress.com/2009/09/06/fanatism/ Best wishes, Erica [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Sun Sep 06 08:45:46 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16232 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2009 15:45:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Sep 2009 15:45:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-da03.mx.aol.com) (205.188.105.145) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Sep 2009 15:45:41 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (imo-ma04.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.139]) by imr-da03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n86Fit7L025947 for ; Sun, 6 Sep 2009 11:44:55 -0400 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.5.) id r.ca6.4cc87a0e (29672) for ; Sun, 6 Sep 2009 11:44:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 11:45:40 EDT To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 9.1 sub 5000 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Originating-IP: 205.188.105.145 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:=20Theos-World=20Fanaticism=20=E2=80=93=20An=20Encyclic?= =?UTF-8?Q?al=20against=20the=20Theosophical=20Society=20i...?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=Jy7BuENyeaJfygvOFMaXpy0-wg-_ar9WhqtiMAeuFHXn1GYx2Q X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52820 Incense poisoning has stranger effects than wearing funny clothes, obviously. Chuck the Heretic _www.charlescosimano.com In a message dated 9/6/2009 8:11:56 A.M. Central Daylight Time, eletzerich@yahoo.com writes: Friends, Many of you will remember the problems the T.S. in Greece had with the church, because of the conference about the Kabeirian Mysteries. Now the Encyclical of the Bishop of Alexandropolis is full translated to English and online, along with a short introduction about what happened. You can see that on the link below: _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _http://ericageorgiahttp://ericagehttp://erhttp://ericageo_ (http://ericageorgiades.wordpress.com/2009/09/06/fanatism/) _ Best wishes, Erica [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From seeker_preethi@yahoo.com Mon Sep 07 01:56:15 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: seeker_preethi@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 19292 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2009 08:56:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Sep 2009 08:56:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web94713.mail.in2.yahoo.com) (203.104.17.182) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Sep 2009 08:56:05 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 91725 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Sep 2009 08:45:53 -0000 Message-ID: <616238.90061.qm@web94713.mail.in2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: kqPD8M8VM1lrhmSXYkIXB6zhve5cYLGYGCS6Qf5b7XRxclI37rEdcO4n6gmpvVn68iO2AHgCTaHLnDpNsGV4b4P9k7W2Drawa._nXZJCMvTGAP00H3sVcq9JOyCh_LOWmzeyUP9DHzK2DEMkH.OrBHcxDgUwmuSVlAoVgwbnyQWWuMWm1cGpeRMATYxzcpQ4pUJnxAbMSa7XqCByfBBXDkgm4gld5HcKUXNPoB_uGfk- X-Received: from [59.96.25.2] by web94713.mail.in2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 07 Sep 2009 14:15:53 IST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/6.1.2 YahooMailWebService/0.7.347.2 Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 14:15:53 +0530 (IST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 203.104.17.182 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: preethi muthiah Subject: Re: Theos-World Better news in Chennai highway project X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=397277465; y=7rTn0GXQoKTn3bZ7sdO_M4TVd3F_tjwUcOZikRmpugafTBubUNz5rTI X-Yahoo-Profile: seeker_preethi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52821 Hi Sampsa, Thank you for responding. I guess when one has lived in a place for 16 year= s and sees it degenerating slowly, some things can get a bit personal, for = one's experiences in the place also creep into the picture. I am sure one w= ould agree that we see instances of these kinds of things in HSO's and HPB'= s writings as well... But they did not have a problem with being personal. = Neither do I. But in the TS of today, we are told repeatedly not to take th= ings personally or to say things personally, because somehow that has becom= e a crime. Were Mrs Burnier and some of her supporters worldwide been as impersonal as= they tell the rest of us to be, we would never have had the recent electio= ns, the dismissal of Dr Algeo as Vice President and I would still have been= in Adyar, working directly on the Estate. But, of course, one cannot make = anyone see the truth of this; least of the all the very personal President = of the Theosophical Society worldwide. As to my knowledge of Mrs Kusum Satapathy, I have met her during many conve= ntions and find her to be efficient, friendly, and a lady in every measure = of that term. I also had the good fortune of meeting her father and mother,= both of whom were resident at Adyar during my initial years there. But it does embarrass me no end that I am asked for my feelings about peopl= e in general at the TS. My fight which has been going on since May 2009 is = much more about the verities that are beyond the personalities, and the onl= y reason I get personal enough to take names is that I do not approve of th= e things that these people do.=20 Fraternally Preethi --- On Wed, 2/9/09, sampsakuukasjarvi wrote: From: sampsakuukasjarvi Subject: Re: Theos-World Better news in Chennai highway project To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, 2 September, 2009, 6:18 PM =A0 =20=20=20=20 Hi Preethi, I wanted to inform all Theosophists about the improved situation concerning= Adyar and the highway. You have been brave in your writings about Adyar, but I think some details = about the workers have been too personal to be forwarded. Btw, Preethi, I would be curious to know if you could tell us something abo= ut Mrs. Kusum Sutapathy, the new international Secretary of the Adyar TS. I= assume you met her at Adyar while you worked there. She is not well-known.= Most people only know that her background (family) is very theosophical. Sampsa from Finland --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, preethi muthiah w= rote: > > Thank you Sampsa for keeping me updated with news about Adyar. Otherwise,= I have had no news at all of it since Mrs Burnier threw me out when I chos= e to stand up against the corruption she practises in the running of the Es= tate. >=20 > Fraternally >=20 > Preethi =20 =20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20 =09 =09=20 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check = out Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Mon Sep 07 09:15:58 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 5740 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2009 16:15:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Sep 2009 16:15:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f178.google.com) (209.85.221.178) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Sep 2009 16:15:51 -0000 X-Received: by qyk10 with SMTP id 10so1950682qyk.0 for ; Mon, 07 Sep 2009 09:14:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.39.201 with SMTP id h9mr3727967qce.4.1252340091589; Mon, 07 Sep 2009 09:14:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <616238.90061.qm@web94713.mail.in2.yahoo.com> References: <616238.90061.qm@web94713.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 10:14:47 -0600 Message-ID: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 209.85.221.178 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Better news in Chennai highway project X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=v_ZrEAL9wM5G6BJQmgA8sWam5EPMT7lDuYmf3izkOYyXRd6epTo X-Yahoo-Profile: ramadoss226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52822 Thanks for the feedback. From what you say, she seemed to be qualified for the current job. Looks like she is also not a octo or septuagenarian. MKR On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 2:45 AM, preethi muthiah wrote: > > As to my knowledge of Mrs Kusum Satapathy, I have met her during many > conventions and find her to be efficient, friendly, and a lady in every > measure of that term. I also had the good fortune of meeting her father and > mother, both of whom were resident at Adyar during my initial years there. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From faliengineer@sbcglobal.net Mon Sep 07 11:06:44 2009 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23968 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2009 18:06:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Sep 2009 18:06:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n46b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.160) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Sep 2009 18:06:41 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoogroups.com; s=lima; t=1252346796; bh=n5uit7n3/SRTp32uTB7bXkkCK4QO+Hu/DRBk6qNM7cY=; h=Received:Received:X-Sender:X-Apparently-To:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:To:Date:MIME-Version:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-Originating-IP:X-eGroups-Msg-Info:From:Subject:X-Yahoo-Group-Post:X-Yahoo-Profile:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-YGroups-SubInfo:Sender:X-eGroups-Approved-By:X-eGroups-Auth; b=X2OkCqKpqBHAO1VrmyN96S8Eri2Itgys3+fnGlKNqB0MWsqXMgW3h9gqZx1VgbIB0eUZ4GFiVpJlJ3pX8EgcjD6EuX6srZxIicFZkTefdcTf1ohrY6YkVC7EzyPclj2m Received: from [69.147.65.147] by n46.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Sep 2009 18:06:36 -0000 Received: from [98.137.34.73] by t10.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Sep 2009 18:06:36 -0000 X-Sender: faliengineer@sbcglobal.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@egroups.com X-Received: (qmail 33541 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2009 05:55:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Sep 2009 05:55:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO smtp102.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.201) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Sep 2009 05:55:03 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 90024 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2009 05:55:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO sgmpzc97jed2vk) (faliengineer@68.92.52.86 with login) by smtp102.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Sep 2009 05:55:02 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: wxvMM8QVM1kegxj2_HvZJ1iXrrssLVAwMaSw81i_9vwe39tfJGsvI1xsgxjpS85u9pggWiuB0rwbmHYhIfL_k0vRlcKmVvaFrzRmSO7dCiJddSShe2C04TNLo5f_e96GHfkI3xLPvBe0lJLnBxfRRI1mGh_Oc1Zn2O4S0oG3k0Q9ZWHFPUS70mlbqODZ_DDmGvLwMcu2kAZ0ZidrPu.rTZ8elgPXOX3ufGNzCoLHOiwiXPAP_JGT8i0eKY_CTvUYYtB_K39qA1RLvemOriyJopeTMChQwYTZk0uPvto2gL8e1Qzq7pxaiIRkqd3vJtVQNA-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system Message-ID: <01b701ca2f7f$bad4c9e0$56345c44@sgmpzc97jed2vk> To: Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 00:54:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3598 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Originating-IP: 68.142.198.201 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "fali engineer" Subject: Fw: MSG and The Slow Poisoning of America X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=242186677; y=PgN1awIJ_a-lJacSfzgAFpC_E8nDsIH_Zc7iHE97Ba3BOTUZOVDg-kJC0scUtsDa50WI0bM X-Yahoo-Profile: faramrozedop Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-YGroups-SubInfo: t=0;f=16;g=qM9fXShV4xw9MZAytSr43n3yc8N3kwMbVdIGUEw-gfT8c5ND6zJNUSZ_K9G6ng3mX5s; X-eGroups-Approved-By: ramadoss226 via web; 07 Sep 2009 18:06:35 -0000 X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52823 To please forward to news agencies, government departments, friends, member= s of Congress. MSG (a slow poison) The food additive MSG (Mono-Sodium Glutamate) is a slow poison. MSG h= ides behind 25 or more names, such as Natural Flavoring. MSG is even in you= r favorite coffee from Tim Horton's and Starbucks coffee shops! I wondered if there could be an actual chemical causing the massive o= besity epidemic, and so did a friend of mine, John Erb. He was a research a= ssistant at the University of Waterloo in Ontario , Canada , and spent year= s working for the government. He made an amazing discovery while going thro= ugh scientific journals for a book he was writing called The Slow Poisoning= of America .. In hundreds of studies around the world, scientists were creating obe= se mice and rats to use in diet or diabetes test studies. No strain of rat = or mice is naturally obese, so scientists have to create them. They make th= ese creatures morbidly obese by injecting them with MSG when they are first= born. The MSG triples the amount of insulin the pancreas creates, causing r= ats(and perhaps humans) to become obese. They even have a name for the fat = rodents they create: "MSG-Treated Rats." When I heard this, I was shocked. I went into my kitchen and checked = the cupboards and the refrigerator. MSG was in everything -- the Campbell's= soups, the Hostess Doritos, the Lays flavored potato chips, Top Ramen,Bett= y Crocker Hamburger Helper, Heinz canned gravy, Swanson frozen prepared mea= ls, and Kraft salad dressings, especially the "healthy low-fat" ones. The items that didn't have MSG marked on the product label had someth= ing called "Hydrolyzed Vegetable Protein," which is just another name for M= onosodium Glutamate. It was shocking to see just how many of the foods we feed our childre= n everyday are filled with this stuff. MSG is hidden under many different n= ames in order to fool those who read the ingredient list, so that they don'= t catch on. (Other names for MSG are "Accent, "Aginomoto," "Natural Meat Te= nderizer," etc.) But it didn't stop there. When our family went out to eat, we started asking at the restaurants= what menu items contained MSG. Many employees, even the managers, swore th= ey didn't use MSG. But when we asked for the ingredient list, which they gr= udgingly provided, sure enough, MSG and Hydrolyzed Vegetable Protein were e= verywhere. Burger King, McDonald's, Wendy's, Taco Bell, every restaurant -- even= the sit-down eateries like TGIF, Chili's, Applebee's, and Denny's -- use M= SG in abundance. Kentucky Fried Chicken seemed to be the WORST offender: MS= G was in every chicken dish, salad dressing. and gravy. No wonder I loved t= o eat that coating on the skin -- their secret spice was MSG! So why is MSG in so many of the foods we eat? Is it a preservative, o= r a vitamin? Not according to my friend John Erb. In his book The Slow Poisoning o= f America , he said that MSG is added to food for the addictive effect it h= as on the human body. Even the propaganda website sponsored by the food manufacturers lobby= group supporting MSG explains that the reason they add it to food is to ma= ke people eat more. A study of the elderly showed that older people eat more of the foods= that it is added to. The Glutamate Association lobbying group says eating = more is a benefit to the elderly, but what does it do to the rest of us? "Betcha can't eat [just] one," takes on a whole new meaning where MSG= is concerned! And we wonder why the nation is overweight! MSG manufacturers themselves admit that it addicts people to their pr= oducts. It makes people choose their product over others, and makes people = eat more of it than they would if MSG wasn't added. Not only is MSG scientifically proven to cause obesity, it is an addi= ctive substance. Since its introduction into the American food supply fifty= years ago,MSG has been added in larger and larger doses to the re-packaged= meals,soups, snacks, and fast foods we are tempted to eat everyday. The FDA has set no limits on how much of it can be added to food. The= y claim it's safe to eat in any amount. But how can they claim it's safe wh= en there are hundreds of scientific studies with titles like these: "The monosodium glutamate (MSG) obese rat as a model for the study of= exercise in obesity." Gobatto CA, Mello MA, Souza CT , Ribeiro IA. Res Com= mun Mol Pathol Pharmacol. 2002. "Adrenalectomy abolishes the food-induced hypothalamic serotonin rele= ase in both normal and monosodium glutamate-obese rats." Guimaraes RB, Tell= es MM, Coelho VB, Mori C, Nascimento CM, Ribeiro. Brain Res Bull. 2002 Aug. 'Obesity induced by neonatal monosodium glutamate treatment in sponta= neously hypertensive rats: An animal model of multiple risk factors." Iwase= M, Yamamoto M, Iino K, Ichikawa K, Shinohara N, Yoshinari Fujishima. Hyper= tens Res. 1998 Mar. "Hypothalamic lesion induced by injection of monosodium glutamate in = suckling period and subsequent development of obesity." Tanaka K, Shimada M= , Nakao K Kusunoki. Exp Neurol. 1978 Oct. No, the date of that last study was not a typo; it was published in 1= 978. Both the "medical research community" and "food manufacturers" have kn= own about the side effects of MSG for decades. Many more of the studies mentioned in John Erb's book link MSG to dia= betes, migraines and headaches, autism, ADHD, and even Alzheimer's. So what can we do to stop the food manufactures from dumping this fat= tening and addictive MSG into our food supply and causing the obesity epide= mic we now see? Several months ago, John Erb took his book and his concerns to one of= the highest government health officials in Canada . While he was sitting i= n the government office, the official told him, "Sure, I know how bad MSG i= s. I wouldn't touch the stuff." But this top-level government official refu= ses to tell the public what he knows. The big media doesn't want to tell the public either, fearing issues = with their advertisers. It seems that the fallout on the fast food industry= may hurt their profit margin. The food producers and restaurants have been addicting us to their products for years, and now we are paying the p= rice for it. Our children should not be cursed with obesity caused by an ad= dictive food additive. But what can I do about it? I'm just one voice! What can I do to stop= the poisoning of our children, while our governments are ensuring financia= l protection for the industry that is poisoning us? This message is going out to everyone I know in an attempt to tell yo= u the truth that the corporate-owned politicians and media won't tell you. The best way you can help to save yourself and your children from thi= s drug-induced epidemic is to forward this article to everyone. With any lu= ck, it will circle the globe before politicians can pass the legislation pr= otecting those who are poisoning us. The food industry learned a lot from the tobacco industry. Imagine if= big tobacco had a bill like this in place before someone blew the whistle = on nicotine? If you are one of the few who can still believe that MSG is good for = us and you don't believe what John Erb has to say, see for yourself. Go to = the National Library of Medicine at www.pubmed.com. Type in the words "MSG = Obese" and read a few of the 115 medical studies that appear. We the public do not want to be rats in one giant experiment, and we = do not approve of food that makes us into a nation of obese, lethargic, add= icted sheep, feeding the food industry's bottom line while waiting for the heart transplant, the diabetic-induced amputation, blindness, or other obesity-induced, life-threatening disorders. With your help we can put an end to this poison. Do your part in sending this message out by word of mouth, e-mail, or= by distribution of this printout to your friends all over the world and st= op this "Slow Poisoning of Mankind" by the packaged food industry. Blowing the whistle on MSG is our responsibility, so get the word out= . =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20 .=20 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- check out the rest of the Windows Live=99. More than mail=96Windows Live=99= goes way beyond your inbox. More than messages ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. Click her= e.=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Mon Sep 07 17:12:41 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 19212 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2009 00:12:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Sep 2009 00:12:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52110.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.113) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Sep 2009 00:12:35 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 8243 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Sep 2009 00:12:35 -0000 Message-ID: <438680.7720.qm@web52110.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: uvQHQX8VM1li.vmkb2qlTD6Q_h7ex0bjrAGfzshmExBT.C0XSLsWJ5HMmNyAOZ_NyKs346T1GHzeEOWlDl8MpfNoon9XF.H9prTAwhW.TSosMaHCYUELK65fc72ypx7NtT49gR3h2R630Dsrv9H9XRO9mYl.4vXo2Glpv4mzqHDf8IC89fKO0IxMFiwKgjww25MKCuDHTEHwYdYP0wrG6Zep96cXV1AirnXtogPdeotvkNha.FKMejDj8DooySpwnrd0j7Bgx5WG0xPde7wNwfjFJKtR.N1ahUalb9jr_8BvDbqHfQt30Dg_DYKn X-Received: from [122.108.22.41] by web52110.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 07 Sep 2009 17:12:35 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1358.27 YahooMailWebService/0.7.338.2 Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 17:12:35 -0700 (PDT) To: Theosophy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.113 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Zero Point - Leon X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=XYthn9rqGLczWxBsDMU1nXDCQqvle7j5A0kAC2DNYL8ne15CAg X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52824 Leon, This is in response to a poster who struggles with the idea of a godcreated= universe.=A0 Am I on the right track? Cass Can I propose that this =A0primeval particle was a combination of matter an= d energy? As matter is unable to be destroyed only changed,=A0 could this z= ero mass=A0reach=A0a point that its constitution in=A0static equilibrium co= uld no longer be contained and that change was the inevitable result of an = inherent force acting upon itself?=A0 This then suggests that=A0matter and energy are=A0in a constant state of fl= ux (albeit over billions and billions of years) from static to energetic=A0= and that expansion and contraction are=A0 a result or an effect of=A0changi= ng interacting forces. This then takes god out of the zero point and replaces god with 'force'.=A0= A force that is subject to its own laws?=A0=A0=20 Cass _____________________________________________________________________= _____________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ From brianparry@ymail.com Mon Sep 07 17:54:32 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: brianparry@ymail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 30841 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2009 00:54:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Sep 2009 00:54:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n46b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.160) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Sep 2009 00:54:27 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.171] by n46.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Sep 2009 00:53:11 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.33] by t13.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Sep 2009 00:53:11 -0000 Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 00:53:11 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <438680.7720.qm@web52110.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.168.160 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 202.61.156.121 From: "butchie122" Subject: Re: Zero Point - Leon X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=354668116; y=7pj2E5vEVHOTiX5SudHlJHZ4ybPCKQn0fDT9k872EnjD1nOLAJr3hpLpEHc69bM X-Yahoo-Profile: butchie122 X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52825 Cass, I don't know about the physics but the Stanzas would agree with your = last statement except they call 'force' 'space'. Thank space we are getting away form the God idea. Brian --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva wrote: > > Leon, > This is in response to a poster who struggles with the idea of a godcreat= ed universe.=A0 Am I on the right track? > Cass >=20 > Can I propose that this =A0primeval particle was a combination of matter = and energy? As matter is unable to be destroyed only changed,=A0 could this= zero mass=A0reach=A0a point that its constitution in=A0static equilibrium = could no longer be contained and that change was the inevitable result of a= n inherent force acting upon itself?=A0 >=20 > This then suggests that=A0matter and energy are=A0in a constant state of = flux (albeit over billions and billions of years) from static to energetic= =A0and that expansion and contraction are=A0 a result or an effect of=A0cha= nging interacting forces. >=20 > This then takes god out of the zero point and replaces god with 'force'.= =A0 A force that is subject to its own laws?=A0=A0=20 >=20 > Cass >=20 >=20 >=20 > ___________________________________________________________________= _______________ > Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. > Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ > From silva_cass@yahoo.com Mon Sep 07 18:47:39 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 78275 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2009 01:47:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Sep 2009 01:47:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.104) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Sep 2009 01:47:33 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 29854 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Sep 2009 01:46:57 -0000 Message-ID: <684170.29048.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 5ul.fOcVM1np9t9ynl87yOZ04Qr91edEXd04kEgS248Ii8Bs1oVAwYj.qsi2MflZOK4J9tX7nKk7J83E3kRV_qmjrrVvbxJMM6hPIbRB_I5hnGG3M4MUd3.c3XfcoP9gtSYZdGu__dx.3ndIVoaRu7G0dRmfCH6f3WKM9SWHsCFtbIVcOIFg4R0sqbF7B8NCKxbC1forQIGt6ACJYEuSPuiLrMx7hIqPjnIb69OIxK8Gak_ulXst_gD9lNb4.KJrWxF8QZKqIlvDAohNU.L2jwL7k6.P4jKljalrbVA4ueSiUXreA_saKVOS_H3y8sgoCW1SIZ6sktTtNR75opOCMhgMLzKoRA-- X-Received: from [122.108.22.41] by web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 07 Sep 2009 18:46:57 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1358.27 YahooMailWebService/0.7.338.2 References: Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 18:46:57 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.104 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Zero Point - Leon X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=d1FCdKFHWzU06_vlLLUYFCqgX44zGc5k8q5WTEVuhEJ-SUCPiw X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52826 Thanks Brian - Are you referring to space within the zero point prior to ex= pansion or that expansion creates space? Cass > >From: butchie122 >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Tuesday, 8 September, 2009 10:53:11 AM >Subject: Theos-World Re: Zero Point - Leon > >=A0=20 > >Cass, I don't know about the physics but the Stanzas would agree with your= last statement except they call 'force' 'space'. > >Thank space we are getting away form the God idea. > >Brian > >--- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Cass Silva wrote: >> >> Leon, >> This is in response to a poster who struggles with the idea of a godcrea= ted universe.=A0 Am I on the right track? >> Cass >>=20 >> Can I propose that this =A0primeval particle was a combination of matter= and energy? As matter is unable to be destroyed only changed,=A0 could thi= s zero mass=A0reach=A0a point that its constitution in=A0static equilibrium= could no longer be contained and that change was the inevitable result of = an inherent force acting upon itself?=A0 >>=20 >> This then suggests that=A0matter and energy are=A0in a constant state of= flux (albeit over billions and billions of years) from static to energetic= =A0and that expansion and contraction are=A0 a result or an effect of=A0cha= nging interacting forces. >>=20 >> This then takes god out of the zero point and replaces god with 'force'.= =A0 A force that is subject to its own laws?=A0=A0=20 >>=20 >> Cass >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ >> Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. >> Learn more: http://au.overview. mail.yahoo. com/ >> > > > _____________________________________________________________________= _____________ Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From leonmaurer@aol.com Mon Sep 07 21:25:53 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 82900 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2009 04:25:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Sep 2009 04:25:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-da03.mx.aol.com) (205.188.105.145) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Sep 2009 04:25:50 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (imo-ma04.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.139]) by imr-da03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n884PFhh010554 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 2009 00:25:15 -0400 X-Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.5.) id r.cfe.5eab5518 (37659) for ; Tue, 8 Sep 2009 00:25:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from [174.48.199.249] (c-174-48-199-249.hsd1.fl.comcast.net [174.48.199.249]) by cia-mb07.mx.aol.com (v125.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMB071-931b4aa5dca71f4; Tue, 08 Sep 2009 00:25:11 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) In-Reply-To: <438680.7720.qm@web52110.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <438680.7720.qm@web52110.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-Id: <62332569-48EA-4E3F-9592-F8616A14E9EF@aol.com> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 00:25:11 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753.1) X-AOL-IP: 174.48.199.249 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Originating-IP: 205.188.105.145 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Leon Maurer Subject: Re: Theos-World Zero Point - Leon X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972; y=r6zFl8Zc28vnqafoelr_id8AQbZywc_Q5IN0fXhacWqXHbmwJ0I X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52827 Cass, I don't think you are too far off the mark... But, at the primal beginning of each cycle of manifestation, the cosmos is in a state of rest -- which consists of its laya point of pure consciousness (of absolute space) spinning in an angular momentum of force rays that correspond to the total potential mass- energy of each level of the past and future seven fold fractal involved manifest fields of cosmic consciousness. It's this laya point that Einstein called the "singularity" prior to the birth of the spacetime continuum... And that the "new science" of today sees as being in the center of every black-hole (now called a "black-white whole" by Nassim Haramein) as well as in every zero- point in total holographic spacetime. (Incidentally, Haramein's theory is the closest science has come to verifying the ABC model as well as HPB's metaphysics). THerefore, we might think of this cosmic singularity, or primal dimensionless atom of "abstract motion", as the "God particle" that is the "seven robed mother" of the Book of Dzyan -- whose still zero- point center of pure consciousness is the "father"... And, as HPB pointed out, is the primal state of "absolute space" that contains the rootless root of both spirit or consciousness, and matter or mass- energy. So, where's the need for an external personal God creator when the cosmos is its own creator, sustainer, destroyer or Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva (Kether, Binah, Chochma)? Thus, the inherent consciousness at the primal beginning of our present cosmic cycle of manifestation, is the triggering intent of will that wakes up and initiates the emanation and radiation of the manifest cosmos and all its fractal involved energy fields -- which are governed solely by the laws of cycles inherent in original spin momentum, after the release of the reactive nature of karma -- like a compressed coil spring explosively expanding when the latch holding is down is slid open. That's why science calls it the "big bang" (and, now, considers each galaxy as starting with an analogous little big bang.) Since the only eternal unchanging reality is that zero-point of pure consciousness -- that's why the ever changing manifest cosmos and all the evolving forms in it, are considered as temporary illusions or Maya. For a closer view of this concept check out my new blog, "How It All Began" at: http://dzyanmaster.wordpress.com/ and compare it with the theories of Haramein at his web site and in his video lectures at: http://www.theresonanceproject.org/ http://www.youtube.com/watch? v=pPgII_4ciFU&feature=PlayList&p=88EDD1895A2F5587&index=0&playnext=1 or http://tinyurl.com/haramein Leon On Sep 7, 2009, at 9/7/098:12 PM, Cass Silva wrote: > Leon, > This is in response to a poster who struggles with the idea of a > godcreated universe. Am I on the right track? > Cass > > Can I propose that this primeval particle was a combination of > matter and energy? As matter is unable to be destroyed only > changed, could this zero mass reach a point that its constitution > in static equilibrium could no longer be contained and that change > was the inevitable result of an inherent force acting upon itself? > > This then suggests that matter and energy are in a constant state > of flux (albeit over billions and billions of years) from static to > energetic and that expansion and contraction are a result or an > effect of changing interacting forces. > > This then takes god out of the zero point and replaces god with > 'force'. A force that is subject to its own laws? > > Cass > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ____________ > Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. > Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From leonmaurer@aol.com Mon Sep 07 21:46:56 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 53346 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2009 04:46:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m4.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Sep 2009 04:46:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-ma01.mx.aol.com) (64.12.206.39) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Sep 2009 04:46:50 -0000 X-Received: from imo-da04.mx.aol.com (imo-da04.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.202]) by imr-ma01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n884kjtO002034 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 2009 00:46:45 -0400 X-Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-da04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.5.) id r.d3b.4c59edcd (37589) for ; Tue, 8 Sep 2009 00:46:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from [174.48.199.249] (c-174-48-199-249.hsd1.fl.comcast.net [174.48.199.249]) by cia-mb06.mx.aol.com (v125.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMB062-92d54aa5e1b0157; Tue, 08 Sep 2009 00:46:40 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) In-Reply-To: <684170.29048.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <684170.29048.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 00:46:41 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753.1) X-AOL-IP: 174.48.199.249 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Originating-IP: 64.12.206.39 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Leon Maurer Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Zero Point - Leon X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972; y=BZqdi96Bf7m4IPwXctRwKP2hzOnCMensXUUqc2vdndcgZy7lfGQ X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52828 Cass, Brian, There's two different kinds of space. One is unconditioned zero- point absolute space or the singularity... And the other is the linear spherical metric space after expansion of the nonlinear spin momentum of the singularity... Just like there are two kinds of force, gravitational and electromagnetic... One, compressing inward, and the other expanding outward. Mass doesn't bend space, like a ball on a rubber blanket, as previously imagined -- but is actually gravitationally compressed space surrounding a singularity. So, there's no strong force pulling particles together at the nucleus of an atom, but simply, compressive gravity pushing them together. Leon On Sep 7, 2009, at 9/7/099:46 PM, Cass Silva wrote: > Thanks Brian - Are you referring to space within the zero point > prior to expansion or that expansion creates space? > > Cass > > >> >> From: butchie122 >> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com >> Sent: Tuesday, 8 September, 2009 10:53:11 AM >> Subject: Theos-World Re: Zero Point - Leon >> >> >> >> Cass, I don't know about the physics but the Stanzas would agree >> with your last statement except they call 'force' 'space'. >> >> Thank space we are getting away form the God idea. >> >> Brian >> >> --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Cass Silva >> wrote: >>> >>> Leon, >>> This is in response to a poster who struggles with the idea of a >>> godcreated universe. Am I on the right track? >>> Cass >>> >>> Can I propose that this primeval particle was a combination of >>> matter and energy? As matter is unable to be destroyed only >>> changed, could this zero mass reach a point that its >>> constitution in static equilibrium could no longer be contained >>> and that change was the inevitable result of an inherent force >>> acting upon itself? >>> >>> This then suggests that matter and energy are in a constant state >>> of flux (albeit over billions and billions of years) from static >>> to energetic and that expansion and contraction are a result or >>> an effect of changing interacting forces. >>> >>> This then takes god out of the zero point and replaces god with >>> 'force'. A force that is subject to its own laws? >>> >>> Cass >>> >>> >>> >>> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ >>> Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. >>> Learn more: http://au.overview. mail.yahoo. com/ >>> >> >> >> > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ____________ > Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. > Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Tue Sep 08 10:06:28 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 50731 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2009 17:06:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Sep 2009 17:06:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mx01.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.11) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Sep 2009 17:06:22 -0000 X-Received: from 56340ee0.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.14.224] helo=khidr) by mx01.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1Ml48N-0007wg-2t for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 08 Sep 2009 19:05:36 +0200 Message-ID: <000b01ca30a6$e880f3f0$e00e3456@khidr> To: Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 19:07:55 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.11 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" Subject: Ratna-gotra-vibhaga and H. P. Blavatsky X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=yd4QybN3mVnrwFnZ9ezoc5ACCZaPXcNMjRjfP0gLZabB X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52829 Dear friends My views are: The following by D. Reigle on H. P. Blavatsky's "The Secret Doctrine" might be worth considering. I will perhaps be safe to say, that a part of the Secret Doctrine was based on the below "Ratna-gotra-vibhaga" (i.e. the Secret Book of "Maytreya Buddha"!? ) David Reigle: >>> Blavatsky in a letter to A. P. Sinnett specifically links The Secret Doctrine she was then writing to a secret book of Maitreya: I have finished an enormous Introductory Chapter, or Preamble, Prologue, call it what you will; just to show the reader that the text as it goes, every Section beginning with a page of translation from the Book of Dzyan and the Secret Book of "Maytreya Buddha" Champai chhos Nga (in prose, not the five books in verse known, which are a blind) are no fiction. [The Letters of H. P. Blavatsky to A. P. Sinnett, p. 195.] Given their doctrinal similarity, it is likely that the Ratna-gotra-vibhaga, or more specifically its secret original, is the book of Maitreya that Blavatsky refers to here. The known Ratna-gotra-vibhaga, though it may be a "blind," still apparently represents the same doctrinal standpoint as that of The Secret Doctrine . <<< http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/reigle01.html A question: Has anyone read "Ratna-gotra-vibhaga" and what translation into english, if any at all, would be recommend to the students of theosophy? M. Sufilight [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Augoeides-222@comcast.net Tue Sep 08 12:51:39 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: augoeides-222@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 40815 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2009 19:51:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m4.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Sep 2009 19:51:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO QMTA01.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net) (76.96.30.16) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Sep 2009 19:51:33 -0000 X-Received: from OMTA08.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.12]) by QMTA01.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id eEyT1c00y0FhH24A1Kqm1h; Tue, 08 Sep 2009 19:50:46 +0000 X-Received: from sz0103.ev.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.26.163]) by OMTA08.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id eKr81c0093X8bDG8UKr8R2; Tue, 08 Sep 2009 19:51:08 +0000 Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 19:51:08 +0000 (UTC) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <296987427.3678131252439468769.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <1398875315.3677621252439405363.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Zimbra 5.0.16_GA_2927.RHEL5_64 (ZimbraWebClient - FF3.0 (Win)/5.0.16_GA_2927.RHEL5_64) X-Originating-IP: 76.96.30.16 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net Subject: Re: Theos-World Ratna-gotra-vibhaga and H. P. Blavatsky X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=314500470; y=R96wb9TpenTO7JqEPJm5GHkzUuHhME0INWG8S95ZDgyhSpwW-KYtsTlSxspkglaH X-Yahoo-Profile: sessesgenbarpharanges Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52830 Morten,=20 In my recent notes I have:=20 The Mahayanottaratantrashastra, ratnagotravibhanga, Tib. theg pa chen po rg= yud bla mai bstan (The Supreme Continuum of The Mahayana) as one of the 5 w= orks of the translation of Asanga's Translation of the Maitreya Texts.=20 Here are the names of the other four:=20 1) Ornament for Clear Realization - Abhisamalankara-Tib. mngon par rtogs pa= 'i i rigyan=20 2) Ornament for the Mahayana Sutras - Mahayanasutralankara - Tib. theg pa c= hen po i mdo sde i rgyan=20 3) Distinguishing Phenomena and Pure Being (Nature of Phenomena) - Dharmadh= armata Vibhanga - Tib. chos dang chos nyid rnam par byed pa=20 4) Distinguishing the Middle and the Extremes - Madhyanta Vibhanga - Tib db= us dang mtha rnam par byed pa=20 5) also mentioned or associated with the stream ofthe above:=20 6) Uttaratantra (Subtle Essense)=20 7) Akasa Garbha (Womb of Space) the Space Store Sutra=20 John=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" =20 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2009 10:07:55 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific=20 Subject: Theos-World Ratna-gotra-vibhaga and H. P. Blavatsky=20 Dear friends=20 My views are:=20 The following by D. Reigle on H. P. Blavatsky's "The Secret Doctrine" might= be worth considering. I will perhaps be safe to say, that a part of the Se= cret Doctrine was based on the below "Ratna-gotra-vibhaga" (i.e. the Secret= Book of "Maytreya Buddha"!? )=20 David Reigle:=20 >>>=20 Blavatsky in a letter to A. P. Sinnett specifically links The Secret Doctri= ne she was then writing to a secret book of Maitreya:=20 I have finished an enormous Introductory Chapter, or Preamble, Prologue, ca= ll it what you will; just to show the reader that the text as it goes, ever= y Section beginning with a page of translation from the Book of Dzyan and t= he Secret Book of "Maytreya Buddha" Champai chhos Nga (in prose, not the fi= ve books in verse known, which are a blind) are no fiction.=20 [The Letters of H. P. Blavatsky to A. P. Sinnett, p. 195.]=20 Given their doctrinal similarity, it is likely that the Ratna-gotra-vibhaga= , or more specifically its secret original, is the book of Maitreya that Bl= avatsky refers to here. The known Ratna-gotra-vibhaga, though it may be a "= blind," still apparently represents the same doctrinal standpoint as that o= f The Secret Doctrine .=20 <<<=20 http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/reigle01.html=20 A question:=20 Has anyone read "Ratna-gotra-vibhaga" and what translation into english, if= any at all, would be recommend to the students of theosophy?=20 M. Sufilight=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mark@withoutwalls.com Tue Sep 08 15:11:24 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mark@withoutwalls.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 98723 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2009 22:11:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Sep 2009 22:11:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net) (167.206.4.197) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Sep 2009 22:11:19 -0000 X-Received: from [192.168.2.2] (ool-457e7d39.dyn.optonline.net [69.126.125.57]) by mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTP id <0KPO007NXAS8PH01@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 08 Sep 2009 18:07:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 18:07:20 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <4AA6D598.5050603@withoutwalls.com> Organization: Without Walls: An Internet Art Space MIME-version: 1.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 X-Originating-IP: 167.206.4.197 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Mark Kusek Reply-To: mark@withoutwalls.com Subject: Re: Zero Point - Leon X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=46044065 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52831 Leon, Thanks for listing these links. They are very helpful. In fact, I've co-opted this one that I found on the "Resonance Project" site and reworked it slightly to use it to illustrate what I've been talking about in some of my recent posts. I changed some labels to my references, but I think the form aptly applies to what we've been talking about and the points I've been trying to express. I would love to get your read (and anyone else's) on these correspondances from the psychological perspective. http://projects.decorativeimaging.net/clients/yantra/Psychograms/Torus.jpg http://projects.decorativeimaging.net/clients/yantra/Psychograms/Torus2.jpg User name: yantra Password: 1234 Best, -- M Leon wrote: << For a closer view of this concept check out my new blog, "How It All Began" at: http://dzyanmaster.wordpress.com/ and compare it with the theories of Haramein at his web site and in his video lectures at: http://www.theresonanceproject.org/ or http://tinyurl.com/haramein >> Mark Kusek Without Walls: An Internet Art Space [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Tue Sep 08 16:50:19 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 46599 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2009 23:50:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Sep 2009 23:50:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52112.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.115) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Sep 2009 23:50:15 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 47901 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Sep 2009 23:50:15 -0000 Message-ID: <798493.44812.qm@web52112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: vu0iHYYVM1kanID.MLGRa8Gf4B5BH9cAQkuEV7oGEnt5pRDGabxyXhvaRsUMHDX0og4eej5BP4Lp9x5Ruxsd40VfPFUA1iQLwGDRQEQEp5ZAtxkE6BlGhQiBrQR8sXRiYIQDaCheB3xJfVV7TzZU2.Tv1D48fHs01eP.N6dEWyWij7glwSwDKeVDNRYt_xcgI6kiKtrULIhgJDiUI_2DUIV8lB82NQTCK5Pyftsp9peYI59EtGJKn9sjUsX01izQH4Uyembeemddceye2XGfBJlGDKuqeGIHlRikSF5YlHcyZdrFS65S159p.6Tke0w6d1C3Ner1qufq4eRHJhyD7P9vLQ-- X-Received: from [122.108.22.41] by web52112.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Sep 2009 16:50:15 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1358.27 YahooMailWebService/0.7.338.2 References: <438680.7720.qm@web52110.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <62332569-48EA-4E3F-9592-F8616A14E9EF@aol.com> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 16:50:15 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <62332569-48EA-4E3F-9592-F8616A14E9EF@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.115 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Zero Point - Leon X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=vgIR8P3wneTzMc4u8nBC66rZcTiB3pBkOWeq1r_CIFlbASwJaw X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52832 Hi Leon, I hope this doesn't confuse the issue, but here goes: So when the cosmos is at rest in pralaya, it in fact, is not at rest but ke= pt in equilibrium by the angular or angle of the force rays acting upon the= static zero point, so at rest really means continuous=A0spinning.=A0 The z= ero point is not static at all but spinning and at such high velocity that = it could appear to be motionless or static? If I am right, you are saying that "will" produces this change from pure co= nsciousness into kosmic consciousness which has seven layers of manifestati= on.=A0=A0I guess it would by necessity have to be layered manifested consci= ousness=A0else we would be back to pure unadulterated absolute consciousnes= s which can only reflect experience but cannot create experience in that st= ate. =A0=A0'Will' then=A0must be some sort of 'karmic force',=A0inherent in= the zero point that can no longer be contained within it's own modus opera= ndi?=A0=A0 Like a kid that ate too much pudding and exploded his stomach!= =A0 lol=A0=20 Cass=A0 > >From: Leon Maurer >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Tuesday, 8 September, 2009 2:25:11 PM >Subject: Re: Theos-World Zero Point - Leon > >=A0=20 >Cass, > >I don't think you are too far off the mark... > >But, at the primal beginning of each cycle of manifestation, the=20 >cosmos is in a state of rest -- which consists of its laya point of=20 >pure consciousness (of absolute space) spinning in an angular=20 >momentum of force rays that correspond to the total potential mass-=20 >energy of each level of the past and future seven fold fractal=20 >involved manifest fields of cosmic consciousness. > >It's this laya point that Einstein called the "singularity" prior to=20 >the birth of the spacetime continuum... And that the "new science" of=20 >today sees as being in the center of every black-hole (now called a=20 >"black-white whole" by Nassim Haramein) as well as in every zero-=20 >point in total holographic spacetime. (Incidentally, Haramein's=20 >theory is the closest science has come to verifying the ABC model as=20 >well as HPB's metaphysics) . > >THerefore, we might think of this cosmic singularity, or primal=20 >dimensionless atom of "abstract motion", as the "God particle" that=20 >is the "seven robed mother" of the Book of Dzyan -- whose still zero-=20 >point center of pure consciousness is the "father"... And, as HPB=20 >pointed out, is the primal state of "absolute space" that contains=20 >the rootless root of both spirit or consciousness, and matter or mass-=20 >energy. So, where's the need for an external personal God creator=20 >when the cosmos is its own creator, sustainer, destroyer or Brahma,=20 >Vishnu, Shiva (Kether, Binah, Chochma)? > >Thus, the inherent consciousness at the primal beginning of our=20 >present cosmic cycle of manifestation, is the triggering intent of=20 >will that wakes up and initiates the emanation and radiation of the=20 >manifest cosmos and all its fractal involved energy fields -- which=20 >are governed solely by the laws of cycles inherent in original spin=20 >momentum, after the release of the reactive nature of karma -- like a=20 >compressed coil spring explosively expanding when the latch holding=20 >is down is slid open. That's why science calls it the "big=20 >bang" (and, now, considers each galaxy as starting with an analogous=20 >little big bang.) > >Since the only eternal unchanging reality is that zero-point of pure=20 >consciousness -- that's why the ever changing manifest cosmos >and all the evolving forms in it, are considered as temporary=20 >illusions or Maya. > >For a closer view of this concept check out my new blog, "How It All=20 >Began" at: >http://dzyanmaster. wordpress. com/ >and compare it with the theories of Haramein at his web site and in=20 >his video lectures at: >http://www.thereson anceproject. org/ >http://www.youtube. com/watch?=20 >v=3DpPgII_4ciFU& feature=3DPlayList &p=3D88EDD1895A2F5 587&index=3D 0&play= next=3D 1 >or http://tinyurl. com/haramein > >Leon > >On Sep 7, 2009, at 9/7/098:12 PM, Cass Silva wrote: > >> Leon, >> This is in response to a poster who struggles with the idea of a=20 >> godcreated universe. Am I on the right track? >> Cass >> >> Can I propose that this primeval particle was a combination of=20 >> matter and energy? As matter is unable to be destroyed only=20 >> changed, could this zero mass reach a point that its constitution=20 >> in static equilibrium could no longer be contained and that change=20 >> was the inevitable result of an inherent force acting upon itself? >> >> This then suggests that matter and energy are in a constant state=20 >> of flux (albeit over billions and billions of years) from static to=20 >> energetic and that expansion and contraction are a result or an=20 >> effect of changing interacting forces. >> >> This then takes god out of the zero point and replaces god with=20 >> 'force'. A force that is subject to its own laws? >> >> Cass >> >> >> >>=20 >> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _=20 >> ____________ >> Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. >> Learn more: http://au.overview. mail.yahoo. com/ >> >> >> ------------ --------- --------- ------ >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > _____________________________________________________________________= _____________ Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From rialto9000@yahoo.com Wed Sep 09 08:01:27 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: rialto9000@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 50811 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2009 15:01:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Sep 2009 15:01:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n4d.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com) (76.13.13.88) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Sep 2009 15:01:25 -0000 X-Received: from [76.13.13.26] by n4.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Sep 2009 15:01:20 -0000 X-Received: from [76.13.10.173] by t3.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Sep 2009 15:01:20 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp114.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Sep 2009 15:01:20 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-5 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 920296.44791.bm@omp114.mail.ac4.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 99128 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Sep 2009 15:01:20 -0000 Message-ID: <46222.95212.qm@web111616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: HlveCIQVM1nUAIt9a.2qEi5zrddtjhbCKGqaMgtv6Vn91uAgM8hrwYtC4l..R7dSjDTpKWVbAw50ZmrXr4aKEdfrHO__kzPATqLr_kFqgMQDlkBR.I8qTxZq08Kw8xR2n2iTRYH47PgyDX5OLeU4SrSsek51H2FX5TvONDZnbvLFFtkaoi4Mu6zBBWgg9EUnk6cY1EGjRQMkhPecyeY- X-Received: from [69.206.157.146] by web111616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 09 Sep 2009 08:01:19 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/7.0.14 YahooMailWebService/0.7.338.2 Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 08:01:19 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 76.13.13.88 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:1:1:0:0 From: Rialto Maldonado Subject: morning X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=406647630; y=WrdX9QQRofqS3x-s440xit1pGkI-r75u3kc4hPxEfnLOHDvYgA X-Yahoo-Profile: rialto9000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52833 I agree with the forum today. I went to channi a few years ago on holiday. = its victorian =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0and a modern centre to built there for= the 21st century. I studied the dalai Lamas =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 latest book. and we,ve got all his books every single one.Our centre in= kingston is full =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0of esoteric books millions of them and= its stuffed full of esoteric knowledge. =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0.Today we unloaded a five ton truck and a donation to fo= od kitchen we do it every month =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0and web do =A0other things t= ooi.We =A0volunteer there too all the time . =A0This is theosophy =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 in action and we do other things too on the =A0street where= it counts.I know many =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0people in kin= gston aqppreciate what we do..As for channi knock it down and build a =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0ts headquaters for the 21st century there instea= d with state of the art technology and =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 phasilities for =A0a cutting edge society to change the world byt examnple= .. =20=20=20=20=20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jacmahnich@yahoo.com Wed Sep 09 12:01:11 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: jacmahnich@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 30179 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2009 19:01:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Sep 2009 19:01:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n44d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.158) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Sep 2009 19:01:05 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.148] by n44.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Sep 2009 19:00:58 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.12] by t11.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Sep 2009 19:00:58 -0000 Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 19:00:58 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <296987427.3678131252439468769.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.169.158 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 77.204.63.190 From: "jacmahnich" Subject: Re: Theos-World Ratna-gotra-vibhaga and H. P. Blavatsky X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=256079706; y=gxBk9xMKvN6QxQJaJeDynx-fnFXUUJuyUROreK7LyCq8hOkdTQ X-Yahoo-Profile: jacmahnich X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52834 Dear friends, Some translations in english of the Ratnagotravibhaga: Uttaratantra or Ratnagotravibhaga, translated from the Tibetan by E. Obermi= ller - Canon Publications - Talent, Oregon - ISBN 0-88181-001-0. The Mahayana Uttaratantra Shastra by Maitreya, commentary by Jamgon Kongtru= l Lodro Thaye , and explanations by Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamtso Rinpoche. Snow = Lion Publications, Ithaca , NY - ISBN 1-55939-128-6 and one translation in french :=20 Ratnagotravibhaga Mahayanottaratantrasastra, translated from sanskrit and t= ibetan by Francois Chenique - Editions DERVY - Paris ISBN 2-84454-124-0 Jacques --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Augoeides-222@... wrote: > > Morten,=20 > In my recent notes I have:=20 >=20 >=20 > The Mahayanottaratantrashastra, ratnagotravibhanga, Tib. theg pa chen po = rgyud bla mai bstan (The Supreme Continuum of The Mahayana) as one of the 5= works of the translation of Asanga's Translation of the Maitreya Texts.=20 >=20 > Here are the names of the other four:=20 >=20 > 1) Ornament for Clear Realization - Abhisamalankara-Tib. mngon par rtogs = pa'i i rigyan=20 >=20 > 2) Ornament for the Mahayana Sutras - Mahayanasutralankara - Tib. theg pa= chen po i mdo sde i rgyan=20 >=20 > 3) Distinguishing Phenomena and Pure Being (Nature of Phenomena) - Dharma= dharmata Vibhanga - Tib. chos dang chos nyid rnam par byed pa=20 >=20 > 4) Distinguishing the Middle and the Extremes - Madhyanta Vibhanga - Tib = dbus dang mtha rnam par byed pa=20 >=20 >=20 > 5) also mentioned or associated with the stream ofthe above:=20 >=20 > 6) Uttaratantra (Subtle Essense)=20 >=20 > 7) Akasa Garbha (Womb of Space) the Space Store Sutra=20 >=20 > John=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" =20 > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 > Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2009 10:07:55 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific= =20 > Subject: Theos-World Ratna-gotra-vibhaga and H. P. Blavatsky=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Dear friends=20 >=20 > My views are:=20 >=20 > The following by D. Reigle on H. P. Blavatsky's "The Secret Doctrine" mig= ht be worth considering. I will perhaps be safe to say, that a part of the = Secret Doctrine was based on the below "Ratna-gotra-vibhaga" (i.e. the Secr= et Book of "Maytreya Buddha"!? )=20 >=20 > David Reigle:=20 > >>>=20 > Blavatsky in a letter to A. P. Sinnett specifically links The Secret Doct= rine she was then writing to a secret book of Maitreya:=20 > I have finished an enormous Introductory Chapter, or Preamble, Prologue, = call it what you will; just to show the reader that the text as it goes, ev= ery Section beginning with a page of translation from the Book of Dzyan and= the Secret Book of "Maytreya Buddha" Champai chhos Nga (in prose, not the = five books in verse known, which are a blind) are no fiction.=20 >=20 > [The Letters of H. P. Blavatsky to A. P. Sinnett, p. 195.]=20 >=20 > Given their doctrinal similarity, it is likely that the Ratna-gotra-vibha= ga, or more specifically its secret original, is the book of Maitreya that = Blavatsky refers to here. The known Ratna-gotra-vibhaga, though it may be a= "blind," still apparently represents the same doctrinal standpoint as that= of The Secret Doctrine .=20 > <<<=20 > http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/reigle01.html=20 >=20 > A question:=20 > Has anyone read "Ratna-gotra-vibhaga" and what translation into english, = if any at all, would be recommend to the students of theosophy?=20 >=20 > M. Sufilight=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Wed Sep 09 13:29:24 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 40084 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2009 20:29:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Sep 2009 20:29:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mx04.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.14) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Sep 2009 20:29:20 -0000 X-Received: from 56340ee0.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.14.224] helo=khidr) by mx04.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1MlTn0-0002fX-29 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 09 Sep 2009 22:29:15 +0200 Message-ID: <006201ca318c$88e54630$e00e3456@khidr> To: References: <296987427.3678131252439468769.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 22:31:38 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.14 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" Subject: Re: Theos-World Ratna-gotra-vibhaga and H. P. Blavatsky X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=BhlW3bTvh101mycR8Wd6poL6nNBgwjETth-a7fnzn26V X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52835 Dear friends and John My views are: Thanks John. 1. Jamgon Kongtrul (1813-1899) co-founder of the Tibetan Buddhist non-secterian synthesis Ri-me Movement. Jamgon Kongtrul are honored as lineage-holders of all the lineages of Tibetan Buddhism, although he is primarily identified with it in the Kagyu lineage. Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamgon_Kongtrul A question: Now was and is the Kongtrul's teachings an expression of the same doktrines as those HPB and Master Morya and KH sought to promote? If so, it would perhaps be interesting to contemplate that Kongtrul was lineage holder af the Mahamudra (the gelug AnuttaraYoga Tantra) - "The Golden Kagyu Garland". And that this lineage was called the White Dynasty by the author W. Y. Evans-Wentz or called the White Karma branch by others. Jamgon Kongtrul is by some rumoured to have used more than one body while being alive. - - - 2. Damodar K. Mavalankar said: "Note. -- We know of only one MAHATMA bearing the name of my venerated GURU DEVA who holds a well-known public office in Thibet, under the TESHU LAMA. For aught we know there may be another bearing the same name; but at any rate he is not known to us, nor have any of those, we are acquainted with in Thibet, heard of him. And this personage, my BELOVED MASTER, is, as I have described Him, resembling the portrait in Mr. Sinnett's possession, and and does not look old. Perhaps the clairvoyants are confounding the sect of Khadampas with the Kauthumpas? The former, although not regular Dougpas, are great magicians and indulge in practices an Adept of the good Law would feel disgusted with -- such as the well known phenomenon of ripping open the abdomen, exposing the intestines, and then restoring them to their normal place and condition, &c. &c. The latter, the Kauthumpas, are the disciples of my MASTER." ( http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/damodar/dam4.htm). (Recommended to be read online with italics included etc.) Now we know who the Khadampas was. Then we must also be able to identify who the Kauthumpas was. Who were they? It seems likely that The Kauthumpas was taught by KH at Shi-Gatze if we follow to HPB's words. A branch of Gelugpa. 3. An interesting place to consider in this connection is Shalu Monastery. Shalu Monastery "Buton's activity inevitably attracted a great deal of attention to the monastery and brought in other Buddhist interllectuals around Tibet and India to study in the grounds amounting to some 3000 by 1360. After his death the monastery became an important epicentre of esoteric studies and psychic training for centuries. The avowed purpose of lamas who cultivated paranormal abilities were not to become magicians or miracle workers but to attain philosophical enlightenment, a belief that all earthly phenonoma are a state of the mind. Shalu Temple became known throughout the far east for its dedication to these philosophies and its enlightenment of the Buddhist faith." ... "Shalu Lakhang temple is in the centre of the monastery. On the ground floor, in the Tshomchen, Sakyamuni and his disciples are enshrined. The chapels flanking it house the Tanjur and the Kanjur books respectively. Chapels on the roof floor are typical Chinese blue tiled structures, housing Sakyamuni, Buton, and Arhats Buddhas. Massive delicate and old murals cover the walls of the monastery, mostly depicting stories from the life of the Buddha. Restoration and preservation are badly needed to protect those arts." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E1%B9%A2alu_Monastery It seems to me, that there is a very very strong energy at this place even today with its libraries etc. - - - Samding Monastery And Samding Monastery (The only officially known Tibetan Buddhist monastery run by a female.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samding_Monastery http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorje_Pakmo - - - 4. The Secret Doctrine by H. P. Blavatsky, vol. 1, p. 307-308: "All the thoughts and emotions, all the learning and knowledge, revealed and acquired, of the early races, found their pictorial expression in allegory and parable. Why? Because >>the spoken word has a potency unknown to, unsuspected and disbelieved in<<, by the modern "sages." Because sound and rhythm are closely related to the four Elements of the Ancients; and because such or another vibration in the air is sure to awaken corresponding powers, union with which produces good or bad results, as the case may be. No student was ever allowed to recite historical, religious, or any real events in so many unmistakable words, lest the powers connected with the event should be once more attracted. Such events were narrated only during the Initiation, and every student had to record them in corresponding symbols, drawn out of his own mind and examined later by his master, before they were finally accepted. Thus was created in time the Chinese Alphabet, as, before that, the hieratic symbols were fixed upon in old Egypt." (Arrows used by M. Sufilight to emphasize italics). . . . . . . . "The peculiarity of this language was that it could be contained in another, concealed and not to be perceived, save through the help of special instruction; letters and syllabic signs possessing at the same time the powers or meaning of numbers, of geometrical shapes, pictures, or ideographs and symbols, the designed scope of which would be determinatively helped out by parables in the shape of narratives or parts of narratives; while also it could be set forth separately, independently, and variously, by pictures, in stone work, or in earth construction." http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/SDVolume_I.htm And Ratna-gotra-vibhaga might have followed such hidden diamond kind of pattern. M. Sufilight ----- Original Message ----- From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 9:51 PM Subject: Re: Theos-World Ratna-gotra-vibhaga and H. P. Blavatsky Morten, In my recent notes I have: The Mahayanottaratantrashastra, ratnagotravibhanga, Tib. theg pa chen po rgyud bla mai bstan (The Supreme Continuum of The Mahayana) as one of the 5 works of the translation of Asanga's Translation of the Maitreya Texts. Here are the names of the other four: 1) Ornament for Clear Realization - Abhisamalankara-Tib. mngon par rtogs pa'i i rigyan 2) Ornament for the Mahayana Sutras - Mahayanasutralankara - Tib. theg pa chen po i mdo sde i rgyan 3) Distinguishing Phenomena and Pure Being (Nature of Phenomena) - Dharmadharmata Vibhanga - Tib. chos dang chos nyid rnam par byed pa 4) Distinguishing the Middle and the Extremes - Madhyanta Vibhanga - Tib dbus dang mtha rnam par byed pa 5) also mentioned or associated with the stream ofthe above: 6) Uttaratantra (Subtle Essense) 7) Akasa Garbha (Womb of Space) the Space Store Sutra John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2009 10:07:55 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Theos-World Ratna-gotra-vibhaga and H. P. Blavatsky Dear friends My views are: The following by D. Reigle on H. P. Blavatsky's "The Secret Doctrine" might be worth considering. I will perhaps be safe to say, that a part of the Secret Doctrine was based on the below "Ratna-gotra-vibhaga" (i.e. the Secret Book of "Maytreya Buddha"!? ) David Reigle: >>> Blavatsky in a letter to A. P. Sinnett specifically links The Secret Doctrine she was then writing to a secret book of Maitreya: I have finished an enormous Introductory Chapter, or Preamble, Prologue, call it what you will; just to show the reader that the text as it goes, every Section beginning with a page of translation from the Book of Dzyan and the Secret Book of "Maytreya Buddha" Champai chhos Nga (in prose, not the five books in verse known, which are a blind) are no fiction. [The Letters of H. P. Blavatsky to A. P. Sinnett, p. 195.] Given their doctrinal similarity, it is likely that the Ratna-gotra-vibhaga, or more specifically its secret original, is the book of Maitreya that Blavatsky refers to here. The known Ratna-gotra-vibhaga, though it may be a "blind," still apparently represents the same doctrinal standpoint as that of The Secret Doctrine . <<< http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/reigle01.html A question: Has anyone read "Ratna-gotra-vibhaga" and what translation into english, if any at all, would be recommend to the students of theosophy? M. Sufilight [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Wed Sep 09 14:08:46 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 87481 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2009 21:08:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Sep 2009 21:08:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO qw-out-2122.google.com) (74.125.92.24) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Sep 2009 21:08:40 -0000 X-Received: by qw-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 5so1302750qwi.59 for ; Wed, 09 Sep 2009 14:07:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.32.148 with SMTP id c20mr541735qcd.52.1252530460358; Wed, 09 Sep 2009 14:07:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <46222.95212.qm@web111616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <46222.95212.qm@web111616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 15:07:40 -0600 Message-ID: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 74.125.92.24 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World morning X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=3lVC9d9RUAli7Qo7dyxQqRODqgTbSPjmHmd-alygrBQhfZwpkto X-Yahoo-Profile: ramadoss226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52836 Excellent. I am very glad that your group is active in helping the food kitchen. For too long, the efforts in helping the local community has been very minimal with heavy concentration on esoteric matters which for most of us is theoretical since they are not yet from first hand. Early leaders have been heavily involved in societal issues and I wish to see more theosophists getting involved in issues of importance to the common man and woman and child. mkr On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 9:01 AM, Rialto Maldonado wrote: > > > I agree with the forum today. I went to channi a few years ago on holiday. > its victorian and a modern centre to built there for the 21st > century. I studied the dalai Lamas latest book. and we,ve > got all his books every single one.Our centre in kingston is full > of esoteric books millions of them and its stuffed full of esoteric > knowledge. .Today we unloaded a five ton truck and > a donation to food kitchen we do it every month and web do other > things tooi.We volunteer there too all the time . This is theosophy > in action and we do other things too on the street where it counts.I > know many people in kingston aqppreciate what we do..As > for channi knock it down and build a ts headquaters for the > 21st century there instead with state of the art technology and > phasilities for a cutting edge society to change the world byt examnple.. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From nhcareyta@yahoo.com.au Wed Sep 09 16:29:43 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: nhcareyta@yahoo.com.au X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 95266 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2009 23:29:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m4.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Sep 2009 23:29:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n39b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.153) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Sep 2009 23:29:37 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.150] by n39.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Sep 2009 23:29:32 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.33] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Sep 2009 23:29:32 -0000 Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 23:29:31 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <616238.90061.qm@web94713.mail.in2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.168.153 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 124.169.162.94 From: "nhcareyta" Subject: Re: Better news in Chennai highway project X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193856796; y=s3xKVTnOK67724EBzJvvJ3IClFU0oChK2TGpLxmPhfpFCq3c X-Yahoo-Profile: nhcareyta X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52837 Dear Preethi You write to Sampsa, "But they(HPB and HSO)did not have=20 a problem with being personal. Neither do I." May I suggest that neither you nor they are/were being particularly "person= al."=20 A principled stand can often be attacked as personal by=20 those wishing to maintain the status quo or by those=20 unaware of an urgent need for action. Non attachment does not mean inaction. As Krishna=20 demonstrated to Arjuna, loving action with non attachment=20 (to personality) is the highest form of dharma.=20 I receive your actions towards some of those in the Adyar Theosophical Soci= ety as a loving appeal to return to=20 principles rather than power.=20 Kind regards Nigel=20 =20=20 --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, preethi muthiah wro= te: > > Hi Sampsa, >=20 > Thank you for responding. I guess when one has lived in a place for 16 ye= ars and sees it degenerating slowly, some things can get a bit personal, fo= r one's experiences in the place also creep into the picture. I am sure one= would agree that we see instances of these kinds of things in HSO's and HP= B's writings as well... But they did not have a problem with being personal= . Neither do I. But in the TS of today, we are told repeatedly not to take = things personally or to say things personally, because somehow that has bec= ome a crime. >=20 > Were Mrs Burnier and some of her supporters worldwide been as impersonal = as they tell the rest of us to be, we would never have had the recent elect= ions, the dismissal of Dr Algeo as Vice President and I would still have be= en in Adyar, working directly on the Estate. But, of course, one cannot mak= e anyone see the truth of this; least of the all the very personal Presiden= t of the Theosophical Society worldwide. >=20 > As to my knowledge of Mrs Kusum Satapathy, I have met her during many con= ventions and find her to be efficient, friendly, and a lady in every measur= e of that term. I also had the good fortune of meeting her father and mothe= r, both of whom were resident at Adyar during my initial years there. >=20 > But it does embarrass me no end that I am asked for my feelings about peo= ple in general at the TS. My fight which has been going on since May 2009 i= s much more about the verities that are beyond the personalities, and the o= nly reason I get personal enough to take names is that I do not approve of = the things that these people do.=20 >=20 > Fraternally >=20 > Preethi >=20 > --- On Wed, 2/9/09, sampsakuukasjarvi wrote: >=20 > From: sampsakuukasjarvi > Subject: Re: Theos-World Better news in Chennai highway project > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, 2 September, 2009, 6:18 PM >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =A0 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20=20=20=20=20 > Hi Preethi, >=20 >=20 >=20 > I wanted to inform all Theosophists about the improved situation concerni= ng Adyar and the highway. >=20 >=20 >=20 > You have been brave in your writings about Adyar, but I think some detail= s about the workers have been too personal to be forwarded. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Btw, Preethi, I would be curious to know if you could tell us something a= bout Mrs. Kusum Sutapathy, the new international Secretary of the Adyar TS.= I assume you met her at Adyar while you worked there. She is not well-know= n. Most people only know that her background (family) is very theosophical. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Sampsa from Finland >=20 >=20 >=20 > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, preethi muthiah = wrote: >=20 > > >=20 > > Thank you Sampsa for keeping me updated with news about Adyar. Otherwis= e, I have had no news at all of it since Mrs Burnier threw me out when I ch= ose to stand up against the corruption she practises in the running of the = Estate. >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > Fraternally >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > Preethi >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20=20 >=20 >=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 >=20 >=20=20=20=20=20 >=20=20=20=20=20 >=20=09 >=20=09=20 >=20=09 >=20=09 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20=09 >=20 >=20 >=20=09 >=20=09 >=20 >=20 > See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Chec= k out Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz.yahoo.com/ >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > From leonmaurer@aol.com Wed Sep 09 22:46:01 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 25506 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2009 05:45:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Sep 2009 05:45:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-ma04.mx.aol.com) (64.12.206.42) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Sep 2009 05:45:58 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (imo-ma03.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.138]) by imr-ma04.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n8A5jjF3020042 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:45:45 -0400 X-Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.5.) id r.c17.6485560a (34954) for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:45:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from [174.48.196.108] (c-174-48-196-108.hsd1.fl.comcast.net [174.48.196.108]) by cia-da06.mx.aol.com (v125.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA063-888a4aa8928728a; Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:45:43 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) In-Reply-To: <798493.44812.qm@web52112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <438680.7720.qm@web52110.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <62332569-48EA-4E3F-9592-F8616A14E9EF@aol.com> <798493.44812.qm@web52112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <72AB610E-0A12-4335-A85C-78031E6EBA8B@aol.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:45:43 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753.1) X-AOL-IP: 174.48.196.108 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Originating-IP: 64.12.206.42 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Leon Maurer Subject: Re: Theos-World Zero Point - Leon X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972; y=2MKeDOG50sUze82uRqbFnREYohp-3Wg-Im4W1OmC4Y5slmU-zm0 X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52838 On Sep 8, 2009, at 9/8/097:50 PM, Cass Silva wrote: > Hi Leon, > > I hope this doesn't confuse the issue, but here goes: > > So when the cosmos is at rest in pralaya, it in fact, is not at > rest but kept in equilibrium by the angular or angle of the force > rays acting upon the static zero point, so at rest really means > continuous spinning. The zero point is not static at all but > spinning and at such high velocity that it could appear to be > motionless or static? When i use the word static, I mean that the spinning zero-point (as non linear or abstract motion) is not moving linearly (side to side, up, down, etc.) like everything else in spherical spacetime. Therefore, the point is motionless (or static) relative to the vibration of the spacetime fields that impinge on it or radiate from its spin momentum and refllect back to it > > If I am right, you are saying that "will" produces this change from > pure consciousness into kosmic consciousness which has seven layers > of manifestation. I guess it would by necessity have to be layered > manifested consciousness else we would be back to pure > unadulterated absolute consciousness which can only reflect > experience but cannot create experience in that state. 'Will' > then must be some sort of 'karmic force', inherent in the zero > point that can no longer be contained within it's own modus > operandi? Like a kid that ate too much pudding and exploded his > stomach! lol The will is the intent of the pure zero-point consciousness -- which is both aware and willful. That intent controls and guides the release of the spin momentum energy that is transformed and channelled by the brain (in conjunction with the trained memory stored in the mind-memory fields as well as in the construction of the malleable neural network) -- into the electrochemical impulses sent through the nervous system to the appropriate muscle cells. That's how we are able to control our fingers to type, write, play a musical instrument, etc I don't know if that explanation is analogous to the kid eating too much...;-) But the "karmic force" is based on the the compressed lines of force of the spinning zero-point of consciousness coupled with the remembered holographic information they contain by direct linkage to their surrounding energy fields (which HPB called the "coadunate but not consubstantial fields of consciousness") that carries the holographic memories of our learned actions as modulated wave interference patterns -- that are linked magnetically to the holographic astral body image field which is coupled directly with the brain's holographic neural processing system. To partially understand this -- picture the modulated radio waves carrying the audio-video information that is processed by the receiver, and translated into the images we see and hear on our TV. Or. try to imagine the way information is stored as a hologram on a film of near infinite resolution -- with the whole 3D image information stored in every smallest part of it -- that can be holographically reconstructed into the original 3D image by a coherent light beam. This understanding (like Einstein's "mind experiments" that enabled him to visualize relativity, the equivalency of mass and energy, and quantum particles as spherical standing waves) takes a highly developed imagination -- which is why HPB always said "only the intuitive student could understand" some of the more occult esoteric details that she pictured by her sentence structure (and their typographical/diacritical mark encoding) in the SD... Which she said had to be read (studied) "in and around the words and between the lines"... And, also, that we should be wary of taking any two dimensional illustrations literally. Did you ever imagine why the directly reflected image of yourself that you see in a mirror, is not the same as the flipped image of you that other people see? Hope this helps. Leon . > ) Cass > >> >> From: Leon Maurer >> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com >> Sent: Tuesday, 8 September, 2009 2:25:11 PM >> Subject: Re: Theos-World Zero Point - Leon >> >> >> Cass, >> >> I don't think you are too far off the mark... >> >> But, at the primal beginning of each cycle of manifestation, the >> cosmos is in a state of rest -- which consists of its laya point of >> pure consciousness (of absolute space) spinning in an angular >> momentum of force rays that correspond to the total potential mass- >> energy of each level of the past and future seven fold fractal >> involved manifest fields of cosmic consciousness. >> >> It's this laya point that Einstein called the "singularity" prior to >> the birth of the spacetime continuum... And that the "new science" of >> today sees as being in the center of every black-hole (now called a >> "black-white whole" by Nassim Haramein) as well as in every zero- >> point in total holographic spacetime. (Incidentally, Haramein's >> theory is the closest science has come to verifying the ABC model as >> well as HPB's metaphysics) . >> >> THerefore, we might think of this cosmic singularity, or primal >> dimensionless atom of "abstract motion", as the "God particle" that >> is the "seven robed mother" of the Book of Dzyan -- whose still zero- >> point center of pure consciousness is the "father"... And, as HPB >> pointed out, is the primal state of "absolute space" that contains >> the rootless root of both spirit or consciousness, and matter or >> mass- >> energy. So, where's the need for an external personal God creator >> when the cosmos is its own creator, sustainer, destroyer or Brahma, >> Vishnu, Shiva (Kether, Binah, Chochma)? >> >> Thus, the inherent consciousness at the primal beginning of our >> present cosmic cycle of manifestation, is the triggering intent of >> will that wakes up and initiates the emanation and radiation of the >> manifest cosmos and all its fractal involved energy fields -- which >> are governed solely by the laws of cycles inherent in original spin >> momentum, after the release of the reactive nature of karma -- like a >> compressed coil spring explosively expanding when the latch holding >> is down is slid open. That's why science calls it the "big >> bang" (and, now, considers each galaxy as starting with an analogous >> little big bang.) >> >> Since the only eternal unchanging reality is that zero-point of pure >> consciousness -- that's why the ever changing manifest cosmos >> and all the evolving forms in it, are considered as temporary >> illusions or Maya. >> >> For a closer view of this concept check out my new blog, "How It All >> Began" at: >> http://dzyanmaster. wordpress. com/ >> and compare it with the theories of Haramein at his web site and in >> his video lectures at: >> http://www.thereson anceproject. org/ >> http://www.youtube. com/watch? >> v=pPgII_4ciFU& feature=PlayList &p=88EDD1895A2F5 587&index= >> 0&playnext= 1 >> or http://tinyurl. com/haramein >> >> Leon >> >> On Sep 7, 2009, at 9/7/098:12 PM, Cass Silva wrote: >> >>> Leon, >>> This is in response to a poster who struggles with the idea of a >>> godcreated universe. Am I on the right track? >>> Cass >>> >>> Can I propose that this primeval particle was a combination of >>> matter and energy? As matter is unable to be destroyed only >>> changed, could this zero mass reach a point that its constitution >>> in static equilibrium could no longer be contained and that change >>> was the inevitable result of an inherent force acting upon itself? >>> >>> This then suggests that matter and energy are in a constant state >>> of flux (albeit over billions and billions of years) from static to >>> energetic and that expansion and contraction are a result or an >>> effect of changing interacting forces. >>> >>> This then takes god out of the zero point and replaces god with >>> 'force'. A force that is subject to its own laws? >>> >>> Cass >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ >>> ____________ >>> Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. >>> Learn more: http://au.overview. mail.yahoo. com/ >>> >>> >>> ------------ --------- --------- ------ >>> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ____________ > Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. > Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > From seeker_preethi@yahoo.com Fri Sep 11 00:10:02 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: seeker_preethi@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 2616 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2009 07:09:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Sep 2009 07:09:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.156) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Sep 2009 07:09:58 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Sep 2009 07:09:33 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.36] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Sep 2009 07:09:32 -0000 Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 07:09:32 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.168.156 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 59.92.124.130 From: "seeker_preethi" Subject: Re: Wither Theosophy. Whither the Theosophical Society? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=397277465; y=td5MFWxoT2iVigiOdhEGKAIQuGcljzXcPU0aiEMKdlNA9bffT2czeKo X-Yahoo-Profile: seeker_preethi X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52839 Hi all, This post is being written with the view to clarify some things that ha= ve come to my notice since I wrote the above article, and which I deem is i= mportant information for all concerned. Soon after I sent out my article -- also via email to many members of t= he TS worldwide -- I received an email from Ms Mary Anderson stating that t= he President was always kind with her during her entire stay at Adyar. I ha= d mentioned to her in response to her email that I would clarify this posit= ion with everyone at a later date (due solely to the fact that I have a bus= y schedule at the school I now work at). So I am clarifying here to everyon= e concerned that Ms Mary Anderson thinks 'today' that the President was alw= ays kind with her when she worked at Adyar. The impression she gave of her = relationship with the President when she did work at Adyar was different. W= hen Ms Anderson was international Secretary and during the Convention of 20= 07, when she was supporting Dr John Algeo, she did mention to me once that = she found the President, Mrs Radha Burnier, a very difficult person to work= with, because on that particular afternoon Mrs Burnier had lost her temper= at Dr Algeo. Also, when the results for the elections were being received = by email from the various Sections, Ms Anderson did mention on several occa= sions that Mrs Burnier would no longer trust her (Mary) with receiving the = emails herself, but yes they say time heals, and perhaps time is healing Ms= Mary Anderson such that she is willing to forget that Mrs Burnier's every = act, deed and thought affects the future of Adyar and the TS, such that the= TS has lost its very essential theosophical nature and is currently the TS= only in name. The other thing I would like to hereby clarify is that Mrs Ananya Rajan= no longer works at the TSA, but that is by her own choice rather than due = to anything she might have faced at the TSA. Also, Dr Pablo Sender is curre= ntly in Argentina but has reapplied for a visa to the USA, so that he may c= ontinue to work at the TSA. Fraternally Preethi --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "seeker_preethi" wr= ote: > > There is no spelling mistake in the title of this article. This article = is an attempt to look at two branches of the TS and how they function and w= hat characterizes them. These two branches are: the International Headquart= ers governed by the international President, Mrs Radha Burnier, at Adyar an= d the National Section of the TS in America governed by Mrs Betty Bland, Na= tional President, TSA. >=20 > One has to acknowledge that despite all her faults/weaknesses, Mrs Bland = maintains several Burnierians in her administration of the TSA. These inclu= de Mrs Ananya S. Rajan who is a relative of Mrs Burnier and works on the Ed= itorial Board of the Quest Magazine brought out by the TSA. On the other ha= nd, in the administration of Mrs Burnier there is no place for a non- or an= ti-Burnierian. On 25 May 2009, just one day after I sent out my strong prot= est against the corruption practised and endorsed by Mrs Burnier, I was tol= d by Mr Pedro Oliveira, Officer-in-Charge of the Editorial Office where I w= as then working, that I was no longer welcome to work in a department where= Mrs Burnier's articles and talks are published. Soon after that, the Gener= al Manager of the Estate informed me that my services were no longer requir= ed at Adyar and that I must therefore vacate the premises at the earliest. >=20 > The other staunch Burnierian is Pablo Sender, who to my understanding and= knowledge, is treated at par with other workers and staff at the TSA. He c= ontinues his work for the TS, both in his administrative capacity and as a = lecturer on topics theosophical, despite his pro-Burnierian stance and desp= ite Mrs Bland's opposition of the Burnier governance. >=20 > On the other hand, Mrs Burnier and her chelas, especially Pedro Oliveira,= marginalize anyone with even a slight non- or anti-Burnierian disposition.= Thus the very "impersonal" Mrs Burnier refused to even talk with Ms Mary A= nderson once Mary had chosen Dr John Algeo for the next President before th= e recently held elections of 2008. As the time for declaring the results dr= ew to a close, Mary was increasingly treated as though she were an outsider= at Adyar. The President would not travel with her in the same car; every e= mail Mary sent out was checked for content by Shailendra Agrawal; Mary was = no longer given the privilege of speaking at the ES; and those who continue= d to maintain a friendly relationship with her were questioned, doubted, su= spected. All this Mary braved for close to an year before deciding to leave= Adyar for good, and it is only when Mary put up her papers that Mrs Burnie= r realized she could not replace her. And so Keith Fisher was called all th= e way from Australia to become the international Secretary. Mary to the las= t day of her stay at Adyar worked for the Cause, whether helping Keith take= over as IS or editing articles for The Theosophist or Adyar Newsletter, br= aving every alienation Mrs Burnier could throw her way with a smile on her = face and umpteen jokes to share. >=20 > Similar was the treatment given to Ms Idarmis Rodriguez, another committe= d worker at Adyar who managed the publication of the entire magazine sectio= n of the Theosophical Publishing House, the Masonic Office and the Esoteric= Section. After her open support of the nomination of Dr Algeo and after Mr= s Burnier won the elections, much of these duties were gradually eased out = of Idarmis, such that she was left feeling unneeded and thus chose to leave= Adyar and is currently working at the TSA. >=20 > Dolores, another anti-Burnierian-administration, committed worker of the = TS leads a marginalized lonely life at Adyar today. If Pedro sees you talki= ng to Dolores, he will surely find the time the next day to ask you what th= e conversation was about. I have often been a victim of Pedro's "paranoia" = in this regard as I continued to maintain my friendship with these three la= dies despite their stand during the elections. >=20 > Dolores is no longer called upon to lecture on topics Theosophical, even = though she is well-versed, well-read and has a deep and broad understanding= of many subjects. She no longer has any post at Adyar. Mrs Burnier gives t= he excuse that she is ill and 80 years of age so she need not work so hard.= But by that same count, Mrs Burnier is herself ill and 85 years of age; pr= o-Burnierian, Helen Jamieson has a sick husband to look after and is frail = and forgetful and nearing 80 years of age; pro-Burnierian N. Muthuswamy in = 90+, sick, unable to even stand for 5-10 minutes, and yet continues to hold= office at the Masonic Office. It thus stands to reason that the reason Dol= ores has no office at Adyar is solely because she is anti-Burnierian-admini= stration. >=20 > I stress the word administration in that last phrase because, to my knowl= edge and understanding, all the people thus far mentioned, have no problems= with Mrs Burnier as a person, but only with the way she runs the TS and wh= ere she intends to take it with all her partiality towards her kith and kin= and the corruption practised by them. But "impersonal" Mrs Burnier, so bli= nded by her personality and ego, cannot see the fact of this matter=85.or p= erhaps chooses not to. >=20 > During the international Convention of 2008, tempers ran high especially = on the pro-Burnierian side. Govert van der Wal of the Dutch Section totally= forgot the Theosophical ideal of tolerance and brotherhood and openly cond= emned Ms Kim-Dieu and co. for "daring to enter Adyar where they are no long= er welcome". His fanaticism was so high that he claimed he would not sit on= the same table to share a meal with the anti-Burnierians. >=20 > Or take the case of Mrs Breda Zagar who walked up to me one afternoon to = clarify if Mr Colin Price was on Kim Dieu's side, solely because Colin and = Kim were sharing a joke and reading something on Kim's laptop. This Breda c= ould not appreciate Preethi's response that perhaps Colin, like myself, was= neutral, had no sides and was supporting on the truth and the TS. >=20 > In most things I would agree with most people worldwide today in saying t= hat the Americans, by and large, have got it all wrong. But where the admin= istration of the TS is concerned, I have to acknowledge truthfully that the= Americans have got it right for a change. Pro-Burnierians and Anti-Burnier= ians cohabit, cowork, coeducate at the TSA, while only Pro-Burnierians are = welcomed into Adyar today. This Adyar is no longer the hallowed precincts t= he Mahatmas visited. Mrs Burnier and her chelas have and are redefining The= osophy, the TS, its characteristics and nature to mean everything HPB, HSO = and the Masters of the Wisdom stood against. >=20 > Preethi > Share > From leonmaurer@aol.com Fri Sep 11 00:21:17 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 35022 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2009 07:21:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Sep 2009 07:21:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-da05.mx.aol.com) (205.188.105.147) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Sep 2009 07:21:13 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (imo-ma04.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.139]) by imr-da05.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n8B7KKrU022519 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 03:20:20 -0400 X-Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.5.) id r.c8b.51b1a674 (56027) for ; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 03:20:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from [174.48.196.108] (c-174-48-196-108.hsd1.fl.comcast.net [174.48.196.108]) by cia-md08.mx.aol.com (v125.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMD081-dadb4aa9fa2f78; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 03:20:15 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) In-Reply-To: <4AA6D598.5050603@withoutwalls.com> References: <4AA6D598.5050603@withoutwalls.com> Message-Id: <424B623C-2A0F-47AA-90D9-F1EAFCDD913B@aol.com> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 03:20:22 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753.1) X-AOL-IP: 174.48.196.108 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Originating-IP: 205.188.105.147 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Leon Maurer Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Zero Point - Leon X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972; y=G3Dw39RrChafw71OKXHQIOzVV4Ln2KYsHBvDzYhLV9ChbnsfPmY X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52840 Mark, I'm not so sure that your psychologically oriented labeling of Harameins diagrams -- ostensibly picturing the "black-white whole" and its gravitational and electrodynamic energy's outward radiation and inward spiraling (after a supernova collapse) -- makes very much sense... Apparently, this primal beginning of a galaxy pertains only to the eighth lowest order material aspect of the physical plane of cosmogenesis -- and doesn't necessarily represent the more symmetrical fractal involution of the initial higher order physical or highest order cosmic astral, mental, and spiritual planes that formed before the symmetry breaking on this lowest order physical/ material plane -- when particles, atoms, molecules and their ponderable material structures first appear. Human identity and observer consciousness actually exists at the origin of the highest order spiritual plane or globe, and is only indirectly linked to the lowest order physical plane that is the subject of scientific study or proofs such as Haramein's mathematics and their associated diagrams. So, I doubt if any of those physical energy fields pictured in those diagrams, actually pertain to any human psychology or to the analogous higher order fields surrounding the zero-(laya) point of individual human consciousness... Which is necessarily, based solely on symmetric fields of consciousness radiating from that point -- whose only asymmetries are in the modulated holographic wave interference patterned information they carry and transmit from one fractal harmonic field to another, by means of phase conjugate adaptive resonance. This, incidentally, along with all cosmic structural information carried by every absolute zero-point's primal spin momentum (Akasha field) is a technical requirement of a holographic universe -- that is not explained or described by Haramein's physical/material energy flow diagrams. The analogy and correspondence of such a cosmic hologram can be seen in every DNA molecule located in each cell of every sentient being. A view of these initial higher order symmetric fields of consciousness and their descent into matter, can be more accurately visualized intuitively (in the imagination) by meditating on and extrapolating from the cross sectional 2D and 3D diagrams of cosmogenesis illustrated on my blog site below -- which are much closer to the original metaphysical "rounds" explained by HPB in the Secret Doctrine, as well as exactly following the numerological formulas in the Book of Dzyan. In my view, I would assume that Leadbeater's and Besant's similar, but misinterpreted descriptions of the primal atom's structure at the physical/material laya point, were due to their inability to psychically penetrate deeper than the lowest order material plane at the nether side of the spiral vortical wormhole leading to the next higher order astral plane. Note that "laya points" at each level of fractal involution on any cosmic plane have different finite mass- energy's that are each only a tiny part of the infinite potential energy of the "singularity" at their primal absolute zero-point centers in unconditioned absolute SPACE. For a more accurate view of the spinning spiral vortex, fractal involved, twin helix harmonic fields within each fundamental physical photon particle's spherical standing wave, see the cross section diagram of an oncoming light ray at: http://leonmaurer.info/ABCimages/PhotonField.gif Best wishes, Leon Maurer http://dzyanmaster.wordpress.com/ On Sep 8, 2009, at 9/8/096:07 PM, Mark Kusek wrote: > Leon, > > Thanks for listing these links. They are very helpful. > > In fact, I've co-opted this one that I found on the "Resonance > Project" > site and reworked it slightly to use it to illustrate what I've been > talking about in some of my recent posts. > > I changed some labels to my references, but I think the form aptly > applies to what we've been talking about and the points I've been > trying > to express. > > I would love to get your read (and anyone else's) on these > correspondances from the psychological perspective. > > http://projects.decorativeimaging.net/clients/yantra/Psychograms/ > Torus.jpg > > http://projects.decorativeimaging.net/clients/yantra/Psychograms/ > Torus2.jpg > > User name: yantra > Password: 1234 > > Best, > > -- M > > > Leon wrote: > > << For a closer view of this concept check out my new blog, "How It > All > Began" at: > http://dzyanmaster.wordpress.com/ > and compare it with the theories of Haramein at his web site and in > his video lectures at: > http://www.theresonanceproject.org/ www.theresonanceproject.org/> > or http://tinyurl.com/haramein >> > > > Mark Kusek > Without Walls: An Internet Art Space > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From sampsakuukasjarvi@yahoo.com Fri Sep 11 02:52:08 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: sampsakuukasjarvi@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 90180 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2009 09:52:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m4.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Sep 2009 09:52:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n44d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.158) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Sep 2009 09:52:02 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.171] by n44.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Sep 2009 09:51:47 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.73] by t13.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Sep 2009 09:51:47 -0000 Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:51:47 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.169.158 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 91.154.24.229 From: "sampsakuukasjarvi" Subject: Re: Wither Theosophy. Whither the Theosophical Society? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=361962269; y=bVm6ored7e2VScKGy_W3q0WBe5rKiRVEa0sH6Ac7UczpEh4eLBETogS5kjM X-Yahoo-Profile: sampsakuukasjarvi X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52841 Preethi, May I suggest that you wouldn't mess other people with your mission against= Adyar? Please leave other people alone, don't repeat their words supportin= g you. Let them themselves "come out" to talk about Adyar affairs and Radha= if they wish. It is embarrasing to see what you wrote about Ms Anderson. This is what I m= ean being too personal. Please talk about issues, not persons. I hope you feel compassion towards all that have made you bitter, Preethi. Thank you very much for telling about the new International Secretary. Sampsa From mail@katinkahesselink.net Fri Sep 11 11:11:48 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mail@katinkahesselink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 43170 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2009 18:11:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Sep 2009 18:11:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n39b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.153) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Sep 2009 18:11:41 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.151] by n39.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Sep 2009 18:11:14 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.73] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Sep 2009 18:11:14 -0000 Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 18:11:14 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.168.153 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 84.82.151.107 From: "katinka_hesselink" Subject: Re: Wither Theosophy. Whither the Theosophical Society? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92802723; y=7HcGa727YciOFkcF0DFanPK3JtBnrM9WLS2xJ1zcJTOGCwwFZ7y7Ki1JTD8 X-Yahoo-Profile: katinka_hesselink X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52842 I'd like to second that. Focusing on people instead of principles is a very= bad idea. We're all learning here. For instance, Govert van der Wall has d= ecided to work for the cause of theosophy within the Dutch board, despite h= aving previously distrusted its members.=20 I'd like to think that he has learned that the only way to overcome dissens= ion is to remember we're all limited to our perspectives and the work can o= nly be done well if people with all sorts of opinions come together to move= forward.=20 Katinka http://www.katinkahesselink.net/ http://www.overpeinzende.nl/ http://www.allconsidering.com/ --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "sampsakuukasjarvi" wrote: > > Preethi, >=20 > May I suggest that you wouldn't mess other people with your mission again= st Adyar? Please leave other people alone, don't repeat their words support= ing you. Let them themselves "come out" to talk about Adyar affairs and Rad= ha if they wish. >=20 > It is embarrasing to see what you wrote about Ms Anderson. This is what I= mean being too personal. Please talk about issues, not persons. >=20 > I hope you feel compassion towards all that have made you bitter, Preethi= . >=20 > Thank you very much for telling about the new International Secretary. >=20 > Sampsa > From mail@katinkahesselink.net Fri Sep 11 12:08:06 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mail@katinkahesselink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 15615 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2009 19:08:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Sep 2009 19:08:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.156) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Sep 2009 19:08:02 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Sep 2009 19:07:21 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.33] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Sep 2009 19:07:21 -0000 Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 19:07:18 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.168.156 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 84.82.151.107 From: "katinka_hesselink" Subject: the challenges that face the Theosophical society Adyar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92802723; y=EM_YuofuRG22rGfI5JKEHXct9LLFxCBWHkiBr0S4SP5QVdcHccYpODh8ZYQ X-Yahoo-Profile: katinka_hesselink X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52843 Hi all, I've read Preethi's account of relations at Adyar last year with interest, = however, I'm not surprised Mary Anderson denies the charges against Radha. = After all it's one thing to complain a bit about relations with one's cowor= kers as they're going on. It's quite another to want them published on the = internet for anybody to read.=20 Theosophists I meet sometimes tell me things and then add: don't publish th= at. I guess Mary Anderson should have said the same to Preethi. Or better y= et: Preethi should have asked Mary in advance whether she wanted those comm= ents published. In the Internet age we're all journalists in a sense and we= have to take the responsibility that comes with that to only publish about= other people what is absolutely essential AND they agree can be published.= =20 It's different when it's issues of principle. Like when we were all protest= ing the potential change in how the president is elected. Or when we're tal= king about who the new president is going to be. But right now all that is = settled and we need to get back to the work or running lodges and magazines= , publishing books and organizing lectures.=20 It's a normal fact of life that people who work together sometimes get alon= g great, and at others don't. Posting such temporary complaints online a ye= ar after they happened is of no use to anybody, aside from the interest mos= t of us have in gossip.=20 If the TS is going to move forward into the 21st century in a way that is o= f use to humanity, we're going to have to face some real issues, instead of= getting side tracked into personal complaints.=20 Real issues we're facing: - how to build community online in a way that is productive and helps peopl= e grow spiritually - how to build community offline: help our lodges grow and be places of rea= l study and a meeting place for people of diverse cultural and religious ba= ckgrounds - how to transform our magazines into well... magazines. Quest is an actual= magazine in this sense, though it might have a higher percentage of in dep= th theosophical content. The Theosophist and the Dutch magazine Theosofia (= two of the magazines I know) aren't magazines in any other sense than that = they're published in a magazine format. They don't have a column for letter= s sent in, for instance. Theosofia doesn't even have a column by the editor= s.=20 One issue Preethi is complaining about is valid though: how important shoul= d it be whether people are first, second or third generation theosophists? = (I'm first btw)=20 There's a grey line here. It's natural to trust family more than others, bu= t when a family member turns out to not be very good at the job you gave th= em, they should be replaced.=20 At Adyar another issue is also pressing: the issue of caste. Can something = be done about the prevalence of high caste Indians in positions of power? O= r on other words: is enough done to reach out to lower caste (varna, jati w= hatever you want to call it) members of the TS? Does the Indian section eve= n have such members in positions of influence? In the West, similarly, are we reaching out to people of color enough? to M= uslims? And if we should, how should that be done? Those are just a few of the issues I think about when I think about where t= he TS is headed, or should be headed. I do wonder: what do you all think th= e real challenges of the TS are? I will only promise to read responses to this post, posted here: http://the= osophicalsociety.wordpress.com/2009/09/11/challenges-theosophical-society-a= dyar/ Katinka Hesselink http://www.katinkahesselink.net/ http://www.overpeinzende.nl/ http://www.allconsidering.com/ From mkr777@gmail.com Fri Sep 11 13:38:37 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16120 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2009 20:38:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Sep 2009 20:38:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f201.google.com) (209.85.221.201) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Sep 2009 20:38:32 -0000 X-Received: by qyk39 with SMTP id 39so1297994qyk.31 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:37:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.54.149 with SMTP id q21mr1456631qcg.60.1252701451077; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:37:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 14:37:31 -0600 Message-ID: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 209.85.221.201 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World the challenges that face the Theosophical society Adyar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=D1u4L1gslb7fEmDrVedbG0fZDYE1I_S8BAIaDKhzq63UE-fEt7w X-Yahoo-Profile: ramadoss226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52844 Let me add a few of my brief comments on issues related to TS. While the election is over more than a year ago, we all saw the actions of many of the section leaders and we are yet to see any action to bridge the cleavage demonstrated in the last meeting of the general council. Some get the feeling that everyone is hiding behind the silence (possibly planning next surprise move) and we have not seen any demonstration of any leadership to get going. The continued lack of transparency and the loss of trust engendered by the ultra secret effort to disenfranchise all of us and the lack of recognition of the error and need to openly eat crow and apologize leaves many to believe that unless some very bold and creative dramatic steps are taken, the cleavage will continue to linger on and we have to wait for the next generation of young creative imaginative men and women takes over the organization in all parts of the world. While street smartness can come with age, when has world seen septuagenarians and octogenarians responsible for coming up with new and creative ideas to contribute to growth of any enterprise. Let us all hope that we soon find young leaders around the world to take us to the future. Elders and old men and women cannot do it. MKR On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 1:07 PM, katinka_hesselink < mail@katinkahesselink.net> wrote: > > > Hi all, > > I've read Preethi's account of relations at Adyar last year with interest, > however, I'm not surprised Mary Anderson denies the charges against Radha. > After all it's one thing to complain a bit about relations with one's > coworkers as they're going on. It's quite another to want them published on > the internet for anybody to read. > > Theosophists I meet sometimes tell me things and then add: don't publish > that. I guess Mary Anderson should have said the same to Preethi. Or better > yet: Preethi should have asked Mary in advance whether she wanted those > comments published. In the Internet age we're all journalists in a sense and > we have to take the responsibility that comes with that to only publish > about other people what is absolutely essential AND they agree can be > published. > > It's different when it's issues of principle. Like when we were all > protesting the potential change in how the president is elected. Or when > we're talking about who the new president is going to be. But right now all > that is settled and we need to get back to the work or running lodges and > magazines, publishing books and organizing lectures. > > It's a normal fact of life that people who work together sometimes get > along great, and at others don't. Posting such temporary complaints online a > year after they happened is of no use to anybody, aside from the interest > most of us have in gossip. > > If the TS is going to move forward into the 21st century in a way that is > of use to humanity, we're going to have to face some real issues, instead of > getting side tracked into personal complaints. > > Real issues we're facing: > > - how to build community online in a way that is productive and helps > people grow spiritually > - how to build community offline: help our lodges grow and be places of > real study and a meeting place for people of diverse cultural and religious > backgrounds > - how to transform our magazines into well... magazines. Quest is an actual > magazine in this sense, though it might have a higher percentage of in depth > theosophical content. The Theosophist and the Dutch magazine Theosofia (two > of the magazines I know) aren't magazines in any other sense than that > they're published in a magazine format. They don't have a column for letters > sent in, for instance. Theosofia doesn't even have a column by the editors. > > One issue Preethi is complaining about is valid though: how important > should it be whether people are first, second or third generation > theosophists? (I'm first btw) > > There's a grey line here. It's natural to trust family more than others, > but when a family member turns out to not be very good at the job you gave > them, they should be replaced. > > At Adyar another issue is also pressing: the issue of caste. Can something > be done about the prevalence of high caste Indians in positions of power? Or > on other words: is enough done to reach out to lower caste (varna, jati > whatever you want to call it) members of the TS? Does the Indian section > even have such members in positions of influence? > > In the West, similarly, are we reaching out to people of color enough? to > Muslims? And if we should, how should that be done? > > Those are just a few of the issues I think about when I think about where > the TS is headed, or should be headed. I do wonder: what do you all think > the real challenges of the TS are? > > I will only promise to read responses to this post, posted here: > http://theosophicalsociety.wordpress.com/2009/09/11/challenges-theosophical-society-adyar/ > > Katinka Hesselink > > http://www.katinkahesselink.net/ > http://www.overpeinzende.nl/ > http://www.allconsidering.com/ > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Augoeides-222@comcast.net Fri Sep 11 14:58:28 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: augoeides-222@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 6350 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2009 21:58:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Sep 2009 21:58:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO QMTA13.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net) (76.96.27.243) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Sep 2009 21:58:24 -0000 X-Received: from OMTA24.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.92]) by QMTA13.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id fZWl1c0091zF43QADZy4S7; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 21:58:04 +0000 X-Received: from sz0103.ev.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.26.163]) by OMTA24.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id fa1x1c0083X8bDG8ka1xyn; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 22:01:57 +0000 Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 21:58:04 +0000 (UTC) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <509925240.254741252706284159.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <500982599.253591252706078039.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Zimbra 5.0.16_GA_2927.RHEL5_64 (ZimbraWebClient - FF3.0 (Win)/5.0.16_GA_2927.RHEL5_64) X-Originating-IP: 76.96.27.243 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net Subject: Re: Theos-World Ratna-gotra-vibhaga and H. P. Blavatsky X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=314500470; y=Z6MxEmG3xOL-lsO4FmFHOBcuAB4BAT-FkItVX7X8ePYT10kCtyD58kBqsqOiTRhZ X-Yahoo-Profile: sessesgenbarpharanges Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52845 Morten, Well it takes in quite lot of history in my view and I have views that collide with fixed idea's lol. I entertain the view that the Bon might be the ancient "Pre-buddhist Buddhists that HPB pointed to. The reason why is that the Nyingpa openly have posted that they originally received the Dzogchen from the Bon who possessed it for centurys, the same for the Kagyu in my view. All the various sects then who were prior to the appearance of the Gelug have to be continuers of the Bon Transmission irrespective of any declaration of Theosophy or HPB. I have several times posted of the pinnacle importance of the Rimed Legacy and Lineage and Transmission on this Forum in regards to "How the Swans Came to America". Luminous Mind and Clear Primordial Awareness and the Absolutism of HPB seem to me to be the same Principle Teaching however clothed or adorned. Tibet has long had the five sacred colors it seems natural that they may also communicate a context of five primary transmission sects regarding Tibetan mind consciousness streams as well as the five Buddha Family's, Dhyan Chohans, Skandhas, etc. "How do we count" is a great proposition that indicates framework of organization. Shalu Temple is a very interesting history. BTW , there have been many Tibetan Women Adepts and there are some good online websites with short biography's and also some Photos of some of them. Here is a nice PDF File about "Awareness". Ordinary Awareness & Pristine Awareness >>>ttp://www.jonangfoundation.org/pdf/jf_rangjung_1.pdf<<< Whether Scientology "Thetan", Theosophical "Monad", Sparks, Rays, or "Units of Awareness" of the Absolute, the process is identical, the Absolute "wills" "The Game Leela" by the projection of a maya creation which is the "secondary" within which "Units of Awareness" (You, me, others) may take position and viewpoint and assume a secondary beingness ( I AM-That- I AM" in samsara journey of experiential extension. The 5 acts of Siva' Projection, Maintenance, Veiling, Withdrawal and Grace describe the environment of the Leela Game and Return . A secondary maya is projected, by Kriya it is caused to Persist (Maintenance) in order for the Game to continue, at an appropiate developmental stage "Veiling" occurs ( what is "veiled" is the essential original memory of our Non-Dual Beingness and (Our original Nature as Absolute). As the creation builds "the 4th action initiates - viz "Withdrawal" ( the Withdrawal indicates that even the memory of the Absolute Nature itself is removed, blinded, occluded and is unaccessable to our consciousness whilst partaking of the "sport" of secondary maya : matter , energy, space and time and physical quasi-tangibility"s made concrete by the expedient creation of "mind" (an instrumentality necessary in the secondary creation projection which takes place in the ground of the Divine Fire, Life and Wisdom in which we all have Participation whether conscious or unconscious of the fact. The Mandaean Declaration "And Life is Victorious" is a statement of Truth. Seeing With Naked Awareness Dream Yoga and the practice of the Natural Light The Heart Drops of the Dharmakaya teaching of the Bon (Blavatsky got her Heart Drop) Ornament of Stainless Light (On the Kalachakra) Radiant Luminous Mind are all good search and research topics that when explored and read evidence parellel ground with Blavatsky's Doctrine. The Anuttara Yoga was held by others previos to the gelug plunder of their legacy. Modern scholars find deficiencys with the versions of Evens-Wentz and do not rate him as high as Theosophists do. >>>are great magicians and indulge in practices an Adept of the good Law would feel disgusted with -- such as the well known phenomenon of ripping open the abdomen, exposing the intestines, and then restoring them to their normal place and condition, &c. &c.<<< My view is this technique above may only be obtained by the senior projection ito the mind screen of those who are forced to have that perception by operation of the senior agancy, the Adept who remained whole and unchanged throughout. There was no real disgorgement but only a practiced "projected reality" that was received by the lesser minds individual and together. I haven't read the "Kauthumpa" text yet so I can't give my viewpoint, more later. Regards, John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2009 1:31:38 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: Theos-World Ratna-gotra-vibhaga and H. P. Blavatsky Dear friends and John My views are: Thanks John. 1. Jamgon Kongtrul (1813-1899) co-founder of the Tibetan Buddhist non-secterian synthesis Ri-me Movement. Jamgon Kongtrul are honored as lineage-holders of all the lineages of Tibetan Buddhism, although he is primarily identified with it in the Kagyu lineage. Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamgon_Kongtrul A question: Now was and is the Kongtrul's teachings an expression of the same doktrines as those HPB and Master Morya and KH sought to promote? If so, it would perhaps be interesting to contemplate that Kongtrul was lineage holder af the Mahamudra (the gelug AnuttaraYoga Tantra) - "The Golden Kagyu Garland". And that this lineage was called the White Dynasty by the author W. Y. Evans-Wentz or called the White Karma branch by others. Jamgon Kongtrul is by some rumoured to have used more than one body while being alive. - - - 2. Damodar K. Mavalankar said: "Note. -- We know of only one MAHATMA bearing the name of my venerated GURU DEVA who holds a well-known public office in Thibet, under the TESHU LAMA. For aught we know there may be another bearing the same name; but at any rate he is not known to us, nor have any of those, we are acquainted with in Thibet, heard of him. And this personage, my BELOVED MASTER, is, as I have described Him, resembling the portrait in Mr. Sinnett's possession, and and does not look old. Perhaps the clairvoyants are confounding the sect of Khadampas with the Kauthumpas? The former, although not regular Dougpas, are great magicians and indulge in practices an Adept of the good Law would feel disgusted with -- such as the well known phenomenon of ripping open the abdomen, exposing the intestines, and then restoring them to their normal place and condition, &c. &c. The latter, the Kauthumpas, are the disciples of my MASTER." ( http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/damodar/dam4.htm ). (Recommended to be read online with italics included etc.) Now we know who the Khadampas was. Then we must also be able to identify who the Kauthumpas was. Who were they? It seems likely that The Kauthumpas was taught by KH at Shi-Gatze if we follow to HPB's words. A branch of Gelugpa. 3. An interesting place to consider in this connection is Shalu Monastery. Shalu Monastery "Buton's activity inevitably attracted a great deal of attention to the monastery and brought in other Buddhist interllectuals around Tibet and India to study in the grounds amounting to some 3000 by 1360. After his death the monastery became an important epicentre of esoteric studies and psychic training for centuries. The avowed purpose of lamas who cultivated paranormal abilities were not to become magicians or miracle workers but to attain philosophical enlightenment, a belief that all earthly phenonoma are a state of the mind. Shalu Temple became known throughout the far east for its dedication to these philosophies and its enlightenment of the Buddhist faith." ... "Shalu Lakhang temple is in the centre of the monastery. On the ground floor, in the Tshomchen, Sakyamuni and his disciples are enshrined. The chapels flanking it house the Tanjur and the Kanjur books respectively. Chapels on the roof floor are typical Chinese blue tiled structures, housing Sakyamuni, Buton, and Arhats Buddhas. Massive delicate and old murals cover the walls of the monastery, mostly depicting stories from the life of the Buddha. Restoration and preservation are badly needed to protect those arts." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E1%B9%A2alu_Monastery It seems to me, that there is a very very strong energy at this place even today with its libraries etc. - - - Samding Monastery And Samding Monastery (The only officially known Tibetan Buddhist monastery run by a female.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samding_Monastery http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorje_Pakmo - - - 4. The Secret Doctrine by H. P. Blavatsky, vol. 1, p. 307-308: "All the thoughts and emotions, all the learning and knowledge, revealed and acquired, of the early races, found their pictorial expression in allegory and parable. Why? Because >>the spoken word has a potency unknown to, unsuspected and disbelieved in<<, by the modern "sages." Because sound and rhythm are closely related to the four Elements of the Ancients; and because such or another vibration in the air is sure to awaken corresponding powers, union with which produces good or bad results, as the case may be. No student was ever allowed to recite historical, religious, or any real events in so many unmistakable words, lest the powers connected with the event should be once more attracted. Such events were narrated only during the Initiation, and every student had to record them in corresponding symbols, drawn out of his own mind and examined later by his master, before they were finally accepted. Thus was created in time the Chinese Alphabet, as, before that, the hieratic symbols were fixed upon in old Egypt." (Arrows used by M. Sufilight to emphasize italics). . . . . . . . "The peculiarity of this language was that it could be contained in another, concealed and not to be perceived, save through the help of special instruction; letters and syllabic signs possessing at the same time the powers or meaning of numbers, of geometrical shapes, pictures, or ideographs and symbols, the designed scope of which would be determinatively helped out by parables in the shape of narratives or parts of narratives; while also it could be set forth separately, independently, and variously, by pictures, in stone work, or in earth construction." http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/SDVolume_I.htm And Ratna-gotra-vibhaga might have followed such hidden diamond kind of pattern. M. Sufilight ----- Original Message ----- From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 9:51 PM Subject: Re: Theos-World Ratna-gotra-vibhaga and H. P. Blavatsky Morten, In my recent notes I have: The Mahayanottaratantrashastra, ratnagotravibhanga, Tib. theg pa chen po rgyud bla mai bstan (The Supreme Continuum of The Mahayana) as one of the 5 works of the translation of Asanga's Translation of the Maitreya Texts. Here are the names of the other four: 1) Ornament for Clear Realization - Abhisamalankara-Tib. mngon par rtogs pa'i i rigyan 2) Ornament for the Mahayana Sutras - Mahayanasutralankara - Tib. theg pa chen po i mdo sde i rgyan 3) Distinguishing Phenomena and Pure Being (Nature of Phenomena) - Dharmadharmata Vibhanga - Tib. chos dang chos nyid rnam par byed pa 4) Distinguishing the Middle and the Extremes - Madhyanta Vibhanga - Tib dbus dang mtha rnam par byed pa 5) also mentioned or associated with the stream ofthe above: 6) Uttaratantra (Subtle Essense) 7) Akasa Garbha (Womb of Space) the Space Store Sutra John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" < global-theosophy@stofanet.dk > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2009 10:07:55 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Theos-World Ratna-gotra-vibhaga and H. P. Blavatsky Dear friends My views are: The following by D. Reigle on H. P. Blavatsky's "The Secret Doctrine" might be worth considering. I will perhaps be safe to say, that a part of the Secret Doctrine was based on the below "Ratna-gotra-vibhaga" (i.e. the Secret Book of "Maytreya Buddha"!? ) David Reigle: >>> Blavatsky in a letter to A. P. Sinnett specifically links The Secret Doctrine she was then writing to a secret book of Maitreya: I have finished an enormous Introductory Chapter, or Preamble, Prologue, call it what you will; just to show the reader that the text as it goes, every Section beginning with a page of translation from the Book of Dzyan and the Secret Book of "Maytreya Buddha" Champai chhos Nga (in prose, not the five books in verse known, which are a blind) are no fiction. [The Letters of H. P. Blavatsky to A. P. Sinnett, p. 195.] Given their doctrinal similarity, it is likely that the Ratna-gotra-vibhaga, or more specifically its secret original, is the book of Maitreya that Blavatsky refers to here. The known Ratna-gotra-vibhaga, though it may be a "blind," still apparently represents the same doctrinal standpoint as that of The Secret Doctrine . <<< http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/reigle01.html A question: Has anyone read "Ratna-gotra-vibhaga" and what translation into english, if any at all, would be recommend to the students of theosophy? M. Sufilight [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Fri Sep 11 15:16:38 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77909 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2009 22:16:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Sep 2009 22:16:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-ma05.mx.aol.com) (64.12.100.31) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Sep 2009 22:16:34 -0000 X-Received: from imo-da03.mx.aol.com (imo-da03.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.201]) by imr-ma05.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n8BMGFPI020939 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 18:16:15 -0400 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-da03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.5.) id r.ced.62a91bcb (39330) for ; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 18:16:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 18:16:10 EDT To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 9.1 sub 34 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Originating-IP: 64.12.100.31 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World the challenges that face the Theosophical society Adyar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=7qXLHYRsWooya8Ya0d8jZ1OL8S6PdIJGZhLRN9-KA10oiy6fEA X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52846 And is it possible to get officials in the TS whose names we can pronounce? I think we need to remember two questions before we make the mistake of picking people based on what caste they are from. First, how many Indians of lower caste are even in the Society? How many of them have the necessary personal skills, education etc, to be able to function in a leadership position of any kind? I think one of the fundamental mistakes that is made is the assumption that holding a position of leadership in the TS is anything more than a merely administrative matter, who ensures that the lawn is mowed and that the next highway only goes through the least expensive part of the estate, for example. When we make the error of becoming respecters of persons we get into all manner of difficulties about the persons themselves. Chuck the Heretic In a message dated 9/11/2009 1:08:37 P.M. Central America Standard T, mail@katinkahesselink.net writes: Hi all, I've read Preethi's account of relations at Adyar last year with interest, however, I'm not surprised Mary Anderson denies the charges against Radha. After all it's one thing to complain a bit about relations with one's coworkers as they're going on. It's quite another to want them published on the internet for anybody to read. Theosophists I meet sometimes tell me things and then add: don't publish that. I guess Mary Anderson should have said the same to Preethi. Or better yet: Preethi should have asked Mary in advance whether she wanted those comments published. In the Internet age we're all journalists in a sense and we have to take the responsibility that comes with that to only publish about other people what is absolutely essential AND they agree can be published. It's different when it's issues of principle. Like when we were all protesting the potential change in how the president is elected. Or when we're talking about who the new president is going to be. But right now all that is settled and we need to get back to the work or running lodges and magazines, publishing books and organizing lectures. It's a normal fact of life that people who work together sometimes get along great, and at others don't. Posting such temporary complaints online a year after they happened is of no use to anybody, aside from the interest most of us have in gossip. If the TS is going to move forward into the 21st century in a way that is of use to humanity, we're going to have to face some real issues, instead of getting side tracked into personal complaints. Real issues we're facing: - how to build community online in a way that is productive and helps people grow spiritually - how to build community offline: help our lodges grow and be places of real study and a meeting place for people of diverse cultural and religious backgrounds - how to transform our magazines into well... magazines. Quest is an actual magazine in this sense, though it might have a higher percentage of in depth theosophical content. The Theosophist and the Dutch magazine Theosofia (two of the magazines I know) aren't magazines in any other sense than that they're published in a magazine format. They don't have a column for letters sent in, for instance. Theosofia doesn't even have a column by the editors. One issue Preethi is complaining about is valid though: how important should it be whether people are first, second or third generation theosophists? (I'm first btw) There's a grey line here. It's natural to trust family more than others, but when a family member turns out to not be very good at the job you gave them, they should be replaced. At Adyar another issue is also pressing: the issue of caste. Can something be done about the prevalence of high caste Indians in positions of power? Or on other words: is enough done to reach out to lower caste (varna, jati whatever you want to call it) members of the TS? Does the Indian section even have such members in positions of influence? In the West, similarly, are we reaching out to people of color enough? to Muslims? And if we should, how should that be done? Those are just a few of the issues I think about when I think about where the TS is headed, or should be headed. I do wonder: what do you all think the real challenges of the TS are? I will only promise to read responses to this post, posted here: _http://theosophicalhttp://theosophihttp://theohttp://theosophihttp://theosophttp://th eosop_ (http://theosophicalsociety.wordpress.com/2009/09/11/challenges-theosophical-society-adyar/) Katinka Hesselink _http://www.katinkahhttp://wwhttp_ (http://www.katinkahesselink.net/) _http://www.overpeinhttp://ww_ (http://www.overpeinzende.nl/) _http://www.allconsihttp://www._ (http://www.allconsidering.com/) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Fri Sep 11 15:17:35 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 48652 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2009 22:17:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Sep 2009 22:17:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-ma03.mx.aol.com) (64.12.206.41) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Sep 2009 22:17:31 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (imo-ma04.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.139]) by imr-ma03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n8BMGtAa000751 for ; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 18:16:56 -0400 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.5.) id r.c7e.38b62de8 (39330) for ; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 18:16:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 18:16:54 EDT To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 9.1 sub 34 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Originating-IP: 64.12.206.41 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World the challenges that face the Theosophical society Adyar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=MvSKwINNhKnFSKhFyV1Sx_rOh2d1NQr9YFaD7oOK1-VkROQUDw X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52847 I wonder why we even need leaders in the first place. Chuck the Heretic In a message dated 9/11/2009 2:39:08 P.M. Central America Standard T, mkr777@gmail.com writes: Let me add a few of my brief comments on issues related to TS. While the election is over more than a year ago, we all saw the actions of many of the section leaders and we are yet to see any action to bridge the cleavage demonstrated in the last meeting of the general council. Some get the feeling that everyone is hiding behind the silence (possibly planning next surprise move) and we have not seen any demonstration of any leadership to get going. The continued lack of transparency and the loss of trust engendered by the ultra secret effort to disenfranchise all of us and the lack of recognition of the error and need to openly eat crow and apologize leaves many to believe that unless some very bold and creative dramatic steps are taken, the cleavage will continue to linger on and we have to wait for the next generation of young creative imaginative men and women takes over the organization in all parts of the world. While street smartness can come with age, when has world seen septuagenarians and octogenarians responsible for coming up with new and creative ideas to contribute to growth of any enterprise. Let us all hope that we soon find young leaders around the world to take us to the future. Elders and old men and women cannot do it. MKR On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 1:07 PM, katinka_hesselink < _mail@katinkahesselimail@k_ (mailto:mail@katinkahesselink.net) > wrote: > > > Hi all, > > I've read Preethi's account of relations at Adyar last year with interest, > however, I'm not surprised Mary Anderson denies the charges against Radha. > After all it's one thing to complain a bit about relations with one's > coworkers as they're going on. It's quite another to want them published on > the internet for anybody to read. > > Theosophists I meet sometimes tell me things and then add: don't publish > that. I guess Mary Anderson should have said the same to Preethi. Or better > yet: Preethi should have asked Mary in advance whether she wanted those > comments published. In the Internet age we're all journalists in a sense and > we have to take the responsibility that comes with that to only publish > about other people what is absolutely essential AND they agree can be > published. > > It's different when it's issues of principle. Like when we were all > protesting the potential change in how the president is elected. Or when > we're talking about who the new president is going to be. But right now all > that is settled and we need to get back to the work or running lodges and > magazines, publishing books and organizing lectures. > > It's a normal fact of life that people who work together sometimes get > along great, and at others don't. Posting such temporary complaints online a > year after they happened is of no use to anybody, aside from the interest > most of us have in gossip. > > If the TS is going to move forward into the 21st century in a way that is > of use to humanity, we're going to have to face some real issues, instead of > getting side tracked into personal complaints. > > Real issues we're facing: > > - how to build community online in a way that is productive and helps > people grow spiritually > - how to build community offline: help our lodges grow and be places of > real study and a meeting place for people of diverse cultural and religious > backgrounds > - how to transform our magazines into well... magazines. Quest is an actual > magazine in this sense, though it might have a higher percentage of in depth > theosophical content. The Theosophist and the Dutch magazine Theosofia (two > of the magazines I know) aren't magazines in any other sense than that > they're published in a magazine format. They don't have a column for letters > sent in, for instance. Theosofia doesn't even have a column by the editors. > > One issue Preethi is complaining about is valid though: how important > should it be whether people are first, second or third generation > theosophists? (I'm first btw) > > There's a grey line here. It's natural to trust family more than others, > but when a family member turns out to not be very good at the job you gave > them, they should be replaced. > > At Adyar another issue is also pressing: the issue of caste. Can something > be done about the prevalence of high caste Indians in positions of power? Or > on other words: is enough done to reach out to lower caste (varna, jati > whatever you want to call it) members of the TS? Does the Indian section > even have such members in positions of influence? > > In the West, similarly, are we reaching out to people of color enough? to > Muslims? And if we should, how should that be done? > > Those are just a few of the issues I think about when I think about where > the TS is headed, or should be headed. I do wonder: what do you all think > the real challenges of the TS are? > > I will only promise to read responses to this post, posted here: > _http://theosophicalhttp://theosophihttp://theohttp://theosophihttp://theosophttp://theosop_ (http://theosophicalsociety.wordpress.com/2009/09/11/challenges-theosophical-society-adyar/) > > Katinka Hesselink > > _http://www.katinkahhttp://wwhttp_ (http://www.katinkahesselink.net/) > _http://www.overpeinhttp://ww_ (http://www.overpeinzende.nl/) > _http://www.allconsihttp://www._ (http://www.allconsidering.com/) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From rialto9000@yahoo.com Fri Sep 11 15:35:14 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: rialto9000@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 19706 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2009 22:35:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Sep 2009 22:35:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n7d.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com) (76.13.13.91) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Sep 2009 22:35:12 -0000 X-Received: from [76.13.13.25] by n7.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Sep 2009 22:34:58 -0000 X-Received: from [76.13.10.184] by t4.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Sep 2009 22:34:58 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp125.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Sep 2009 22:34:58 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-5 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 107347.89723.bm@omp125.mail.ac4.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 48642 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Sep 2009 22:34:57 -0000 Message-ID: <293765.48370.qm@web111606.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: .gyDj5MVM1lBdwjpkZwcju_Jwd3Z1k29Jx1SYxGNAzLb7iLfGZOsLEboKtvTCB7MPRt5IxjPw9jLzvoX0UsDLN5I6cVautUPyxWNSk1w4loMrD2.6f9yptAgwSOSz5CKMEcYelgZSWi_kVmucMutLIt5GO1hO3qASKX_6.ZPq0euVzayPMxFYC0igMRI53w9.foPSmZdGmcC8iAdie8- X-Received: from [69.206.153.183] by web111606.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 15:34:57 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/7.0.14 YahooMailWebService/0.7.338.2 Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 15:34:57 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 76.13.13.91 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:1:1:0:0 From: Rialto Maldonado Subject: his holynesses the 14 th dalai lamas book X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=406647630; y=GSmI7t9wi6CfeKtvcTkdEBXQ2PL7VAjafztPB2h6sljXxIvwJA X-Yahoo-Profile: rialto9000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52848 =A0I just finished reading the Dalai Lamas latest book. Its full ofd ideas = then ts could use =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0up front right now.Tomorrow im at = kdt at woodstock for a monastry special and =A0sunday =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 is st= udy day. w,ve chosen a book called the four noble truths =A0to study for ne= xt few =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0weeks.Wehave exciting projects and a = penny social in conjunction with fmio6 and =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = lions =A0next week. for a funds for a food kitchen who need help in kingsto= n.we sent 2 =A0hundred =A0 =A0 dollars to the campaIgn for tibet and =A0thi= s week we send funds to the tos. =20=20=20=20=20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mail@katinkahesselink.net Fri Sep 11 22:36:06 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mail@katinkahesselink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 11099 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2009 05:36:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m4.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Sep 2009 05:36:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n39b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.153) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Sep 2009 05:36:00 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.151] by n39.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Sep 2009 05:35:57 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.12] by t5.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Sep 2009 05:35:57 -0000 Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 05:35:55 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.168.153 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 84.82.151.107 From: "katinka_hesselink" Subject: Re: the challenges that face the Theosophical society Adyar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92802723; y=ps260afkbuVUrj2-_33E4RPdq-beki03MyIHTJbs1mVuQW0ztSloVx_d_mE X-Yahoo-Profile: katinka_hesselink X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52849 Hi MKR, For what it's worth, the former dutch chair woman of the Dutch section did = apologize for signing that proposal about disenfranchisement. It turns out = she signed without asking the board whether they agreed. She did so right b= efore handing over the post to the next chair.=20 I personally think it's far less likely that conspiracies are going on, tha= n that people have simply gone back to work for the TS.=20 I think people are confused, which is only natural, and building on that wi= th conspiracy theories is not going to help the movement any.=20 Katinka --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, MKR wrote: > > Let me add a few of my brief comments on issues related to TS. >=20 > While the election is over more than a year ago, we all saw the actions o= f > many of the section leaders and we are yet to see any action to bridge th= e > cleavage demonstrated in the last meeting of the general council. Some ge= t > the feeling that everyone is hiding behind the silence (possibly planning > next surprise move) and we have not seen any demonstration of any leaders= hip > to get going. >=20 > The continued lack of transparency and the loss of trust engendered by th= e > ultra secret effort to disenfranchise all of us and the lack of recogniti= on > of the error and need to openly eat crow and apologize leaves many to > believe that unless some very bold and creative dramatic steps are taken, > the cleavage will continue to linger on and we have to wait for the next > generation of young creative imaginative men and women takes over the > organization in all parts of the world. >=20 > While street smartness can come with age, when has world seen > septuagenarians and octogenarians responsible for coming up with new and > creative ideas to contribute to growth of any enterprise. Let us all hope > that we soon find young leaders around the world to take us to the future= . > Elders and old men and women cannot do it. >=20 > MKR >=20 >=20 > On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 1:07 PM, katinka_hesselink < > mail@...> wrote: >=20 > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > I've read Preethi's account of relations at Adyar last year with intere= st, > > however, I'm not surprised Mary Anderson denies the charges against Rad= ha. > > After all it's one thing to complain a bit about relations with one's > > coworkers as they're going on. It's quite another to want them publishe= d on > > the internet for anybody to read. > > > > Theosophists I meet sometimes tell me things and then add: don't publis= h > > that. I guess Mary Anderson should have said the same to Preethi. Or be= tter > > yet: Preethi should have asked Mary in advance whether she wanted those > > comments published. In the Internet age we're all journalists in a sens= e and > > we have to take the responsibility that comes with that to only publish > > about other people what is absolutely essential AND they agree can be > > published. > > > > It's different when it's issues of principle. Like when we were all > > protesting the potential change in how the president is elected. Or whe= n > > we're talking about who the new president is going to be. But right now= all > > that is settled and we need to get back to the work or running lodges a= nd > > magazines, publishing books and organizing lectures. > > > > It's a normal fact of life that people who work together sometimes get > > along great, and at others don't. Posting such temporary complaints onl= ine a > > year after they happened is of no use to anybody, aside from the intere= st > > most of us have in gossip. > > > > If the TS is going to move forward into the 21st century in a way that = is > > of use to humanity, we're going to have to face some real issues, inste= ad of > > getting side tracked into personal complaints. > > > > Real issues we're facing: > > > > - how to build community online in a way that is productive and helps > > people grow spiritually > > - how to build community offline: help our lodges grow and be places of > > real study and a meeting place for people of diverse cultural and relig= ious > > backgrounds > > - how to transform our magazines into well... magazines. Quest is an ac= tual > > magazine in this sense, though it might have a higher percentage of in = depth > > theosophical content. The Theosophist and the Dutch magazine Theosofia = (two > > of the magazines I know) aren't magazines in any other sense than that > > they're published in a magazine format. They don't have a column for le= tters > > sent in, for instance. Theosofia doesn't even have a column by the edit= ors. > > > > One issue Preethi is complaining about is valid though: how important > > should it be whether people are first, second or third generation > > theosophists? (I'm first btw) > > > > There's a grey line here. It's natural to trust family more than others= , > > but when a family member turns out to not be very good at the job you g= ave > > them, they should be replaced. > > > > At Adyar another issue is also pressing: the issue of caste. Can someth= ing > > be done about the prevalence of high caste Indians in positions of powe= r? Or > > on other words: is enough done to reach out to lower caste (varna, jati > > whatever you want to call it) members of the TS? Does the Indian sectio= n > > even have such members in positions of influence? > > > > In the West, similarly, are we reaching out to people of color enough? = to > > Muslims? And if we should, how should that be done? > > > > Those are just a few of the issues I think about when I think about whe= re > > the TS is headed, or should be headed. I do wonder: what do you all thi= nk > > the real challenges of the TS are? > > > > I will only promise to read responses to this post, posted here: > > http://theosophicalsociety.wordpress.com/2009/09/11/challenges-theosoph= ical-society-adyar/ > > > > Katinka Hesselink > > > > http://www.katinkahesselink.net/ > > http://www.overpeinzende.nl/ > > http://www.allconsidering.com/ > > > >=20=20 > > >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > From seeker_preethi@yahoo.com Fri Sep 11 23:04:39 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: seeker_preethi@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 63319 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2009 06:04:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Sep 2009 06:04:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web94704.mail.in2.yahoo.com) (203.104.17.146) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Sep 2009 06:04:33 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 87567 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Sep 2009 06:04:32 -0000 Message-ID: <188552.87539.qm@web94704.mail.in2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: TyzBC.cVM1mHgtf52V32ROYOFQvBSBxGq.ZlLaML4Hf_aT3QzzGQYAnbc_hLdji.67xOcCvA5abU5ygIooDyjebvTp_NeSLoBUhiXHgtuNKDdKZs7e0wPIUKhq3fx7VUzZRNtIMhHQjQ6.zIGT3kmiENxDaSpwdU8SrybvBK4KEkCeWnqFbrCeqkz4gjj68XtN8grw_9dUnoX60- X-Received: from [59.96.26.128] by web94704.mail.in2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 12 Sep 2009 11:34:31 IST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/7.0.14 YahooMailWebService/0.7.347.2 Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 11:34:31 +0530 (IST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 203.104.17.146 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: preethi muthiah Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: the challenges that face the Theosophical society Adyar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=397277465; y=cJPZXzSio4zxZE0175QsJnydXp_7r2qadm07BAGHxeLgHDN9pYl1swg X-Yahoo-Profile: seeker_preethi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52850 Dear Katinka, MKR and Sampsa, Thank you for your comments. I would like to clarify something for you Sampsa. I am not working against = Adyar as the Masters of the Wisdom saw it. I am definitely working against = the Adyar Mrs Radha Burnier rules and dictates, for I am convinced that the= Adyar of Mrs Radha Burnier is not a place fit even for human beings, leave= alone Theosophists. Since May 2009 I have openly challenged her authority as President of the T= S and Head of the ES, mainly because she tried to use her authority in the = ES to reinstate her authority of the TS, by forcing members of the ES to si= gn what might be called a fealty form, which takes away from individual ES = members their right to think and act intelligently. Also, because, she allo= ws her niece, Ms Subha Nilakanta, to abuse fellow-workers at the Editorial = Office at Adyar and her niece-in-law, Mrs Uma Nilakanta, to practise corrup= tion at various levels in the running of Leadbeater Chambers at Adyar; and = by so doing endorses their tyranny and corruption. With regard to your comments about my bringing up issues with Ms Mary Ander= son, those are just examples of how Theosophists behave. We might want to r= emember the words of the Masters of the Wisdom who tell us that every word = given out by us is accounted for in the akashic records. Can we also look at why it is you all hold on to the personalities mentione= d, rather than the points mentioned there? The main point mentioned in the = article entitled "Wither Theosophy; Whither TS" is that the President, Mrs = Radha Burnier, and her followers and supporters on campus at Adyar do not w= elcome on campus any more any member who has a view at variance with their = limited one, and especially those who have even a little of anti-Burnierian= attitude. If tolerance is a virtue for Theosophists, would you not say tha= t the President of the TS and Head of the ES ought to be the first one to e= lucidate that very quality? Why does she take every single suggestion a mem= ber of the TS makes against her administration as a personal insult for whi= ch then she must punish and reprimand the poor member -- whether that membe= r be Mary, Idarmis, Dolores, Elvira, or Preethi or for that matter our ex-V= ice President, Dr John Algeo? We have all suffered for our opposition of her ways. So why is our international President so intoleran= t that at Adyar today in order for one to serve and work there, one has to = follow the motto: "There is no Religion Higher than Radha Burnier", because= honesty and truth are no longer appreciated at Adyar? The Buddha said: When I say, look at the moon, don't look at my finger. I t= ranspose that to say, when Preethi says, Ms Anderson, Ms Rodriguez, Ms Gago= , went through something, look at the thing being pointed to rather than at= the examples being given to elucidate that point. On the one hand, when I = speak generally without examples, I am blamed for not giving examples. Toda= y, on your request I am giving you examples. Or is the underlying issue something else basically? Something perhaps so d= eeply ingrained in human consciousness that Theosophists despite all their = big literature and knowledge are unwilling to overcome it -- Theosophists f= ear change just as humans the world over do. Theosophists fear responsibili= ty just as humans the world over do. Theosophists speak big words at lectur= es just as other humans the world over do. Theosophists prefer like humans = the world over to hold on to outer forms rather than practise their inner e= ssence and meaning. And if their preference for wrong and ignorance is goin= g to cost the downfall of the TS as founded by the Masters of the Wisdom, w= hy should they care? As long as the outer form continues to the exist, we c= an be comfortable and attend conventions, lecture tours, workshops, etc. Fraternally, Preethi --- On Sat, 12/9/09, katinka_hesselink wrote: From: katinka_hesselink Subject: Theos-World Re: the challenges that face the Theosophical society = Adyar To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, 12 September, 2009, 11:05 AM =A0 =20=20=20=20 Hi MKR, For what it's worth, the former dutch chair woman of the Dutch section did = apologize for signing that proposal about disenfranchisement. It turns out = she signed without asking the board whether they agreed. She did so right b= efore handing over the post to the next chair.=20 I personally think it's far less likely that conspiracies are going on, tha= n that people have simply gone back to work for the TS.=20 I think people are confused, which is only natural, and building on that wi= th conspiracy theories is not going to help the movement any.=20 Katinka --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, MKR wrote: > > Let me add a few of my brief comments on issues related to TS. >=20 > While the election is over more than a year ago, we all saw the actions o= f > many of the section leaders and we are yet to see any action to bridge th= e > cleavage demonstrated in the last meeting of the general council. Some ge= t > the feeling that everyone is hiding behind the silence (possibly planning > next surprise move) and we have not seen any demonstration of any leaders= hip > to get going. >=20 > The continued lack of transparency and the loss of trust engendered by th= e > ultra secret effort to disenfranchise all of us and the lack of recogniti= on > of the error and need to openly eat crow and apologize leaves many to > believe that unless some very bold and creative dramatic steps are taken, > the cleavage will continue to linger on and we have to wait for the next > generation of young creative imaginative men and women takes over the > organization in all parts of the world. >=20 > While street smartness can come with age, when has world seen > septuagenarians and octogenarians responsible for coming up with new and > creative ideas to contribute to growth of any enterprise. Let us all hope > that we soon find young leaders around the world to take us to the future= . > Elders and old men and women cannot do it. >=20 > MKR >=20 >=20 > On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 1:07 PM, katinka_hesselink < > mail@...> wrote: >=20 > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > I've read Preethi's account of relations at Adyar last year with intere= st, > > however, I'm not surprised Mary Anderson denies the charges against Rad= ha. > > After all it's one thing to complain a bit about relations with one's > > coworkers as they're going on. It's quite another to want them publishe= d on > > the internet for anybody to read. > > > > Theosophists I meet sometimes tell me things and then add: don't publis= h > > that. I guess Mary Anderson should have said the same to Preethi. Or be= tter > > yet: Preethi should have asked Mary in advance whether she wanted those > > comments published. In the Internet age we're all journalists in a sens= e and > > we have to take the responsibility that comes with that to only publish > > about other people what is absolutely essential AND they agree can be > > published. > > > > It's different when it's issues of principle. Like when we were all > > protesting the potential change in how the president is elected. Or whe= n > > we're talking about who the new president is going to be. But right now= all > > that is settled and we need to get back to the work or running lodges a= nd > > magazines, publishing books and organizing lectures. > > > > It's a normal fact of life that people who work together sometimes get > > along great, and at others don't. Posting such temporary complaints onl= ine a > > year after they happened is of no use to anybody, aside from the intere= st > > most of us have in gossip. > > > > If the TS is going to move forward into the 21st century in a way that = is > > of use to humanity, we're going to have to face some real issues, inste= ad of > > getting side tracked into personal complaints. > > > > Real issues we're facing: > > > > - how to build community online in a way that is productive and helps > > people grow spiritually > > - how to build community offline: help our lodges grow and be places of > > real study and a meeting place for people of diverse cultural and relig= ious > > backgrounds > > - how to transform our magazines into well... magazines. Quest is an ac= tual > > magazine in this sense, though it might have a higher percentage of in = depth > > theosophical content. The Theosophist and the Dutch magazine Theosofia = (two > > of the magazines I know) aren't magazines in any other sense than that > > they're published in a magazine format. They don't have a column for le= tters > > sent in, for instance. Theosofia doesn't even have a column by the edit= ors. > > > > One issue Preethi is complaining about is valid though: how important > > should it be whether people are first, second or third generation > > theosophists? (I'm first btw) > > > > There's a grey line here. It's natural to trust family more than others= , > > but when a family member turns out to not be very good at the job you g= ave > > them, they should be replaced. > > > > At Adyar another issue is also pressing: the issue of caste. Can someth= ing > > be done about the prevalence of high caste Indians in positions of powe= r? Or > > on other words: is enough done to reach out to lower caste (varna, jati > > whatever you want to call it) members of the TS? Does the Indian sectio= n > > even have such members in positions of influence? > > > > In the West, similarly, are we reaching out to people of color enough? = to > > Muslims? And if we should, how should that be done? > > > > Those are just a few of the issues I think about when I think about whe= re > > the TS is headed, or should be headed. I do wonder: what do you all thi= nk > > the real challenges of the TS are? > > > > I will only promise to read responses to this post, posted here: > > http://theosophical society.wordpres s.com/2009/ 09/11/challenges -theo= sophical- society-adyar/ > > > > Katinka Hesselink > > > > http://www.katinkah esselink. net/ > > http://www.overpein zende.nl/ > > http://www.allconsi dering.com/ > > > >=20=20 > > >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > =20 =20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20 =09 =09=20 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and mor= e. Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Sat Sep 12 06:44:23 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 14979 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2009 13:31:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m4.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Sep 2009 13:31:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f202.google.com) (209.85.221.202) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Sep 2009 13:31:58 -0000 X-Received: by qyk40 with SMTP id 40so1535834qyk.8 for ; Sat, 12 Sep 2009 06:31:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.15.203 with SMTP id l11mr987825qca.43.1252762306183; Sat, 12 Sep 2009 06:31:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 07:31:46 -0600 Message-ID: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 209.85.221.202 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: the challenges that face the Theosophical society Adyar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=ww3pttWTDxlKtJYhe4ONzoTefxzHBZnMhSMRZdGcg5UcYFUQX3A X-Yahoo-Profile: ramadoss226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52851 Glad to hear about the apology from the Dutch leader and she did the right thing. Since the disenfranchisement move was directed at members all over the world, it would have done a lot of good if it was broadcast world-wide. In today=E2=80=99s world it is very easy with Internet. I am sure she uses = Internet for other theosophical organizational communications. Also, if the leader distanced herself from the other members of the quartet, she would have com= e out in flying colors. All the others in the quartet have not done it in very simple and open terms. However we have seen are comments from others nuancing the move whic= h does not go to the heart of the issue. This does not help anyone. This only makes some of us to be very vigilant and as we do not want to be surprised again with some other clever (self serving) move not in the best interests of members or TS. MKR On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 11:35 PM, katinka_hesselink < mail@katinkahesselink.net> wrote: > > > Hi MKR, > > For what it's worth, the former dutch chair woman of the Dutch section di= d > apologize for signing that proposal about disenfranchisement. It turns ou= t > she signed without asking the board whether they agreed. She did so right > before handing over the post to the next chair. > > I personally think it's far less likely that conspiracies are going on, > than that people have simply gone back to work for the TS. > > I think people are confused, which is only natural, and building on that > with conspiracy theories is not going to help the movement any. > > Katinka > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com , MKR > wrote: > > > > Let me add a few of my brief comments on issues related to TS. > > > > While the election is over more than a year ago, we all saw the actions > of > > many of the section leaders and we are yet to see any action to bridge > the > > cleavage demonstrated in the last meeting of the general council. Some > get > > the feeling that everyone is hiding behind the silence (possibly planni= ng > > next surprise move) and we have not seen any demonstration of any > leadership > > to get going. > > > > The continued lack of transparency and the loss of trust engendered by > the > > ultra secret effort to disenfranchise all of us and the lack of > recognition > > of the error and need to openly eat crow and apologize leaves many to > > believe that unless some very bold and creative dramatic steps are take= n, > > the cleavage will continue to linger on and we have to wait for the nex= t > > generation of young creative imaginative men and women takes over the > > organization in all parts of the world. > > > > While street smartness can come with age, when has world seen > > septuagenarians and octogenarians responsible for coming up with new an= d > > creative ideas to contribute to growth of any enterprise. Let us all ho= pe > > that we soon find young leaders around the world to take us to the > future. > > Elders and old men and women cannot do it. > > > > MKR > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 1:07 PM, katinka_hesselink < > > mail@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I've read Preethi's account of relations at Adyar last year with > interest, > > > however, I'm not surprised Mary Anderson denies the charges against > Radha. > > > After all it's one thing to complain a bit about relations with one's > > > coworkers as they're going on. It's quite another to want them > published on > > > the internet for anybody to read. > > > > > > Theosophists I meet sometimes tell me things and then add: don't > publish > > > that. I guess Mary Anderson should have said the same to Preethi. Or > better > > > yet: Preethi should have asked Mary in advance whether she wanted tho= se > > > comments published. In the Internet age we're all journalists in a > sense and > > > we have to take the responsibility that comes with that to only publi= sh > > > about other people what is absolutely essential AND they agree can be > > > published. > > > > > > It's different when it's issues of principle. Like when we were all > > > protesting the potential change in how the president is elected. Or > when > > > we're talking about who the new president is going to be. But right n= ow > all > > > that is settled and we need to get back to the work or running lodges > and > > > magazines, publishing books and organizing lectures. > > > > > > It's a normal fact of life that people who work together sometimes ge= t > > > along great, and at others don't. Posting such temporary complaints > online a > > > year after they happened is of no use to anybody, aside from the > interest > > > most of us have in gossip. > > > > > > If the TS is going to move forward into the 21st century in a way tha= t > is > > > of use to humanity, we're going to have to face some real issues, > instead of > > > getting side tracked into personal complaints. > > > > > > Real issues we're facing: > > > > > > - how to build community online in a way that is productive and helps > > > people grow spiritually > > > - how to build community offline: help our lodges grow and be places = of > > > real study and a meeting place for people of diverse cultural and > religious > > > backgrounds > > > - how to transform our magazines into well... magazines. Quest is an > actual > > > magazine in this sense, though it might have a higher percentage of i= n > depth > > > theosophical content. The Theosophist and the Dutch magazine Theosofi= a > (two > > > of the magazines I know) aren't magazines in any other sense than tha= t > > > they're published in a magazine format. They don't have a column for > letters > > > sent in, for instance. Theosofia doesn't even have a column by the > editors. > > > > > > One issue Preethi is complaining about is valid though: how important > > > should it be whether people are first, second or third generation > > > theosophists? (I'm first btw) > > > > > > There's a grey line here. It's natural to trust family more than > others, > > > but when a family member turns out to not be very good at the job you > gave > > > them, they should be replaced. > > > > > > At Adyar another issue is also pressing: the issue of caste. Can > something > > > be done about the prevalence of high caste Indians in positions of > power? Or > > > on other words: is enough done to reach out to lower caste (varna, ja= ti > > > whatever you want to call it) members of the TS? Does the Indian > section > > > even have such members in positions of influence? > > > > > > In the West, similarly, are we reaching out to people of color enough= ? > to > > > Muslims? And if we should, how should that be done? > > > > > > Those are just a few of the issues I think about when I think about > where > > > the TS is headed, or should be headed. I do wonder: what do you all > think > > > the real challenges of the TS are? > > > > > > I will only promise to read responses to this post, posted here: > > > > http://theosophicalsociety.wordpress.com/2009/09/11/challenges-theosophic= al-society-adyar/ > > > > > > Katinka Hesselink > > > > > > http://www.katinkahesselink.net/ > > > http://www.overpeinzende.nl/ > > > http://www.allconsidering.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >=20=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mail@katinkahesselink.net Sat Sep 12 08:57:43 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mail@katinkahesselink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16240 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2009 15:43:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Sep 2009 15:43:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n6-vm6.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com) (67.195.135.102) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Sep 2009 15:43:21 -0000 X-Received: from [67.195.134.49] by n6.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Sep 2009 15:43:16 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by t2.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Sep 2009 15:43:16 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.73] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Sep 2009 15:43:16 -0000 Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 15:43:15 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <188552.87539.qm@web94704.mail.in2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 67.195.135.102 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 84.82.151.107 From: "katinka_hesselink" Subject: Theos-World Re: the challenges that face the Theosophical society Adyar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92802723; y=BNwJIkH4gh_iRmcAc3SImyWyHvaLv6T6aiWdjZlDyFtk0UMvXnj3Ct4MCCk X-Yahoo-Profile: katinka_hesselink X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52852 Hi Preethi, I'm very sad to hear that Radha can't deal with opposition and I am hoping = you're wrong about that (though not very hopeful). But from an organization= al point of view the fact is simply that Radha was reelected and we can't d= o anything about that without splitting up the TS. That is not a price wort= h paying, at least that's my opinion.=20 The result is that I'm focusing on things I CAN change, like helping rebuil= d the Dutch TS website, keeping a blog etc. I think that's the proper attit= ude from a theosophical perspective as well.=20 I do hope the general council will deal with practical issues and local sec= tions are moving forward into the 21st century, whatever Radha may have to = say. The TS survived Annie Besant losing her focus, we can survive Radha as= well. Just by each of us contributing to the best the TS can be.=20 After all the theosophical work doesn't start at Adyar, it starts at home, = in the local lodges and at each national headquarters for each one of us. I= do hope we can learn Krishnamurti's lesson on this one: we can't change th= e 'leader', we can change ourselves.=20 I was at the International Theosophical Centre in Naarden (formerly Huizen)= this summer doing volunteer work. Two visitors with a history at Brockwood= came for tea one day and we talked about Brockwood and the future of the T= S. They shared that when Krishnamurti passed away, people at Brockwood seem= ed to 'grow up'. That is: they no longer expected the answers from Krishnam= urti and started really thinking about the issues, and solving them, themse= lves.=20 Perhaps Radha not functioning very well will do that for the TS? After all,= we really don't need her for most of the work.=20 Katinka http://www.katinkahesselink.net/ http://www.overpeinzende.nl/ http://www.allconsidering.com/ =20 --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, preethi muthiah wro= te: > > Dear Katinka, MKR and Sampsa, >=20 > Thank you for your comments. >=20 > I would like to clarify something for you Sampsa. I am not working agains= t Adyar as the Masters of the Wisdom saw it. I am definitely working agains= t the Adyar Mrs Radha Burnier rules and dictates, for I am convinced that t= he Adyar of Mrs Radha Burnier is not a place fit even for human beings, lea= ve alone Theosophists. >=20 > Since May 2009 I have openly challenged her authority as President of the= TS and Head of the ES, mainly because she tried to use her authority in th= e ES to reinstate her authority of the TS, by forcing members of the ES to = sign what might be called a fealty form, which takes away from individual E= S members their right to think and act intelligently. Also, because, she al= lows her niece, Ms Subha Nilakanta, to abuse fellow-workers at the Editoria= l Office at Adyar and her niece-in-law, Mrs Uma Nilakanta, to practise corr= uption at various levels in the running of Leadbeater Chambers at Adyar; an= d by so doing endorses their tyranny and corruption. >=20 > With regard to your comments about my bringing up issues with Ms Mary And= erson, those are just examples of how Theosophists behave. We might want to= remember the words of the Masters of the Wisdom who tell us that every wor= d given out by us is accounted for in the akashic records. >=20 > Can we also look at why it is you all hold on to the personalities mentio= ned, rather than the points mentioned there? The main point mentioned in th= e article entitled "Wither Theosophy; Whither TS" is that the President, Mr= s Radha Burnier, and her followers and supporters on campus at Adyar do not= welcome on campus any more any member who has a view at variance with thei= r limited one, and especially those who have even a little of anti-Burnieri= an attitude. If tolerance is a virtue for Theosophists, would you not say t= hat the President of the TS and Head of the ES ought to be the first one to= elucidate that very quality? Why does she take every single suggestion a m= ember of the TS makes against her administration as a personal insult for w= hich then she must punish and reprimand the poor member -- whether that mem= ber be Mary, Idarmis, Dolores, Elvira, or Preethi or for that matter our ex= -Vice President, Dr John Algeo? We have all suffered for our > opposition of her ways. So why is our international President so intoler= ant that at Adyar today in order for one to serve and work there, one has t= o follow the motto: "There is no Religion Higher than Radha Burnier", becau= se honesty and truth are no longer appreciated at Adyar? >=20 > The Buddha said: When I say, look at the moon, don't look at my finger. I= transpose that to say, when Preethi says, Ms Anderson, Ms Rodriguez, Ms Ga= go, went through something, look at the thing being pointed to rather than = at the examples being given to elucidate that point. On the one hand, when = I speak generally without examples, I am blamed for not giving examples. To= day, on your request I am giving you examples. >=20 > Or is the underlying issue something else basically? Something perhaps so= deeply ingrained in human consciousness that Theosophists despite all thei= r big literature and knowledge are unwilling to overcome it -- Theosophists= fear change just as humans the world over do. Theosophists fear responsibi= lity just as humans the world over do. Theosophists speak big words at lect= ures just as other humans the world over do. Theosophists prefer like human= s the world over to hold on to outer forms rather than practise their inner= essence and meaning. And if their preference for wrong and ignorance is go= ing to cost the downfall of the TS as founded by the Masters of the Wisdom,= why should they care? As long as the outer form continues to the exist, we= can be comfortable and attend conventions, lecture tours, workshops, etc. >=20 > Fraternally, >=20 > Preethi >=20 > --- On Sat, 12/9/09, katinka_hesselink wrote: >=20 > From: katinka_hesselink > Subject: Theos-World Re: the challenges that face the Theosophical societ= y Adyar > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, 12 September, 2009, 11:05 AM >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =A0 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20=20=20=20=20 > Hi MKR, >=20 >=20 >=20 > For what it's worth, the former dutch chair woman of the Dutch section di= d apologize for signing that proposal about disenfranchisement. It turns ou= t she signed without asking the board whether they agreed. She did so right= before handing over the post to the next chair.=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > I personally think it's far less likely that conspiracies are going on, t= han that people have simply gone back to work for the TS.=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > I think people are confused, which is only natural, and building on that = with conspiracy theories is not going to help the movement any.=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Katinka >=20 >=20 >=20 > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, MKR wrote: >=20 > > >=20 > > Let me add a few of my brief comments on issues related to TS. >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > While the election is over more than a year ago, we all saw the actions= of >=20 > > many of the section leaders and we are yet to see any action to bridge = the >=20 > > cleavage demonstrated in the last meeting of the general council. Some = get >=20 > > the feeling that everyone is hiding behind the silence (possibly planni= ng >=20 > > next surprise move) and we have not seen any demonstration of any leade= rship >=20 > > to get going. >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > The continued lack of transparency and the loss of trust engendered by = the >=20 > > ultra secret effort to disenfranchise all of us and the lack of recogni= tion >=20 > > of the error and need to openly eat crow and apologize leaves many to >=20 > > believe that unless some very bold and creative dramatic steps are take= n, >=20 > > the cleavage will continue to linger on and we have to wait for the nex= t >=20 > > generation of young creative imaginative men and women takes over the >=20 > > organization in all parts of the world. >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > While street smartness can come with age, when has world seen >=20 > > septuagenarians and octogenarians responsible for coming up with new an= d >=20 > > creative ideas to contribute to growth of any enterprise. Let us all ho= pe >=20 > > that we soon find young leaders around the world to take us to the futu= re. >=20 > > Elders and old men and women cannot do it. >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > MKR >=20 > >=20 >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 1:07 PM, katinka_hesselink < >=20 > > mail@> wrote: >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > Hi all, >=20 > > > >=20 > > > I've read Preethi's account of relations at Adyar last year with inte= rest, >=20 > > > however, I'm not surprised Mary Anderson denies the charges against R= adha. >=20 > > > After all it's one thing to complain a bit about relations with one's >=20 > > > coworkers as they're going on. It's quite another to want them publis= hed on >=20 > > > the internet for anybody to read. >=20 > > > >=20 > > > Theosophists I meet sometimes tell me things and then add: don't publ= ish >=20 > > > that. I guess Mary Anderson should have said the same to Preethi. Or = better >=20 > > > yet: Preethi should have asked Mary in advance whether she wanted tho= se >=20 > > > comments published. In the Internet age we're all journalists in a se= nse and >=20 > > > we have to take the responsibility that comes with that to only publi= sh >=20 > > > about other people what is absolutely essential AND they agree can be >=20 > > > published. >=20 > > > >=20 > > > It's different when it's issues of principle. Like when we were all >=20 > > > protesting the potential change in how the president is elected. Or w= hen >=20 > > > we're talking about who the new president is going to be. But right n= ow all >=20 > > > that is settled and we need to get back to the work or running lodges= and >=20 > > > magazines, publishing books and organizing lectures. >=20 > > > >=20 > > > It's a normal fact of life that people who work together sometimes ge= t >=20 > > > along great, and at others don't. Posting such temporary complaints o= nline a >=20 > > > year after they happened is of no use to anybody, aside from the inte= rest >=20 > > > most of us have in gossip. >=20 > > > >=20 > > > If the TS is going to move forward into the 21st century in a way tha= t is >=20 > > > of use to humanity, we're going to have to face some real issues, ins= tead of >=20 > > > getting side tracked into personal complaints. >=20 > > > >=20 > > > Real issues we're facing: >=20 > > > >=20 > > > - how to build community online in a way that is productive and helps >=20 > > > people grow spiritually >=20 > > > - how to build community offline: help our lodges grow and be places = of >=20 > > > real study and a meeting place for people of diverse cultural and rel= igious >=20 > > > backgrounds >=20 > > > - how to transform our magazines into well... magazines. Quest is an = actual >=20 > > > magazine in this sense, though it might have a higher percentage of i= n depth >=20 > > > theosophical content. The Theosophist and the Dutch magazine Theosofi= a (two >=20 > > > of the magazines I know) aren't magazines in any other sense than tha= t >=20 > > > they're published in a magazine format. They don't have a column for = letters >=20 > > > sent in, for instance. Theosofia doesn't even have a column by the ed= itors. >=20 > > > >=20 > > > One issue Preethi is complaining about is valid though: how important >=20 > > > should it be whether people are first, second or third generation >=20 > > > theosophists? (I'm first btw) >=20 > > > >=20 > > > There's a grey line here. It's natural to trust family more than othe= rs, >=20 > > > but when a family member turns out to not be very good at the job you= gave >=20 > > > them, they should be replaced. >=20 > > > >=20 > > > At Adyar another issue is also pressing: the issue of caste. Can some= thing >=20 > > > be done about the prevalence of high caste Indians in positions of po= wer? Or >=20 > > > on other words: is enough done to reach out to lower caste (varna, ja= ti >=20 > > > whatever you want to call it) members of the TS? Does the Indian sect= ion >=20 > > > even have such members in positions of influence? >=20 > > > >=20 > > > In the West, similarly, are we reaching out to people of color enough= ? to >=20 > > > Muslims? And if we should, how should that be done? >=20 > > > >=20 > > > Those are just a few of the issues I think about when I think about w= here >=20 > > > the TS is headed, or should be headed. I do wonder: what do you all t= hink >=20 > > > the real challenges of the TS are? >=20 > > > >=20 > > > I will only promise to read responses to this post, posted here: >=20 > > > http://theosophical society.wordpres s.com/2009/ 09/11/challenges -th= eosophical- society-adyar/ >=20 > > > >=20 > > > Katinka Hesselink >=20 > > > >=20 > > > http://www.katinkah esselink. net/ >=20 > > > http://www.overpein zende.nl/ >=20 > > > http://www.allconsi dering.com/ >=20 > > > >=20 > > >=20=20 >=20 > > > >=20 > >=20 >=20 > >=20 >=20 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >=20 > > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20=20 >=20 >=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 >=20 >=20=20=20=20=20 >=20=20=20=20=20 >=20=09 >=20=09=20 >=20=09 >=20=09 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20=09 >=20 >=20 >=20=09 >=20=09 >=20 >=20 > Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and m= ore. Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Sat Sep 12 12:12:30 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 48205 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2009 19:12:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Sep 2009 19:12:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mx02.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.12) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Sep 2009 19:12:27 -0000 X-Received: from 56340ee0.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.14.224] helo=khidr) by mx02.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1MmXyH-0007BU-00 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 12 Sep 2009 21:09:17 +0200 Message-ID: <000601ca33dc$8b00af20$e00e3456@khidr> To: Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 21:09:24 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.12 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" Subject: HPB: The Society, as such, has no authorities. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=-CLv8CdXXEbhDsRF3fJuhwk976fr2agjBEkAPEIRmFt9 X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52853 Dear friends My views are: Here are a few qoutes from the gems of Theosophy on the issue Authorities. "The Society, as such, has no authorities. It was founded with the object of breaking down that reliance upon 'authority' which has been the bane of man for ages, and it would be strange now in we could admit authority for theosophists...We are engaged in trying to develop a truer appreciation of the Light of Life which is hidden in every man, and so the "final authority" is the man himself." ( -- WQJ "AUTHORITY,"; The Path, Nov. 1887, WQJ Art. II 543, 575) "No true Theosophist...would consent to become the fetish of a fashionable doctrine, any more than he would make himself the slave of a decaying dead-letter system, the spirit from which has disappeared forever. Neither would he pander to anyone or anything, and therefore would always decline to show belief in that in which he does not, nor can he believe, which is lying to his own soul...we will keep to that pure ray 'that comes from above,' from the light of the Ancient." (--HPB "Dual Aspect of Wisdom", Lucifer, Sept. 1890, HPB Articles I 36-7) Any comments on how we could relate this to the present day theosophy? M. Sufilight [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Sat Sep 12 12:21:40 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 62170 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2009 19:14:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Sep 2009 19:14:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mx02.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.12) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Sep 2009 19:14:53 -0000 X-Received: from 56340ee0.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.14.224] helo=khidr) by mx02.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1MmY3g-0001Vo-25 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 12 Sep 2009 21:14:52 +0200 Message-ID: <000601ca33dd$5318e590$e00e3456@khidr> To: Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 21:15:00 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.12 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" Subject: HPB: He who wipeth not away the filth... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=kxfTwA9dw9fXSA_z-Omf_aWZtXTDbYIq2OzKzbLOhE6H X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52854 Dear friends My views are: Here is a little something about taking care of theosophy... "(From the "Book of Discipline" in the schools of "Dzyan.")=20 "1. TO THE EARNEST DISCIPLE HIS TEACHER TAKES THE PLACE OF FATHER AND MOTHE= R. FOR, WHEREAS THEY GAVE HIM HIS BODY AND ITS FACULTIES, ITS LIFE AND CASU= AL FORM, THE TEACHER SHOWS HIM HOW TO DEVELOP THE INNER FACULTIES FOR THE A= CQUISITION OF THE ETERNAL WISDOM.=20 "2. TO THE DISCIPLE EACH FELLOW-DISCIPLE BECOMES A BROTHER AND SISTER, A PO= RTION OF HIMSELF,* FOR HIS INTERESTS AND ASPIRATIONS ARE THEIRS, HIS WELFAR= E INTERWOVEN WITH THEIRS, HIS PROGRESS HELPED OR HINDERED BY THEIR INTELLIG= ENCE, MORALITY, AND BEHAVIOR THROUGH THE INTIMACY BROUGHT ABOUT BY THEIR CO= -DISCIPLESHIP.=20 "3. A CO-DISCIPLE OR ASSOCIATE CANNOT BACKSLIDE OR FALL OUT OF THE LINE WIT= HOUT AFFECTING THOSE WHO STAND FIRM THROUGH THE SYMPATHETIC TIE BETWEEN THE= MSELVES AND THE PSYCHICAL CURRENTS BETWEEN THEM AND THEIR TEACHER.=20 "4. WOE TO THE DESERTER, WOE ALSO TO ALL WHO HELP TO BRING HIS SOUL TO THE = POINT WHERE DESERTION FIRST PRESENTS ITSELF BEFORE HIS MIND'S EYE, AS THE L= ESSER OF TWO EVILS. GOLD IN THE CRUCIBLE IS HE WHO STANDS THE MELTING HEAT = OF TRIAL, AND LETS ONLY THE DROSS BE BURNT OUT OF HIS HEART; ACCURSED BY KA= RMIC ACTION WILL FIND HIMSELF HE WHO THROWS DROSS INTO THE MELTING-POT OF D= ISCIPLESHIP FOR THE DEBASEMENT OF HIS FELLOW-PUPIL. AS THE MEMBERS TO THE B= ODY, SO ARE THE DISCIPLES TO EACH OTHER, AND TO THE HEAD AND HEART WHICH TE= ACH AND NOURISH THEM WITH THE LIFE- STREAM OF TRUTH.=20 "5. AS THE LIMBS DEFEND THE HEAD AND HEART OF THE BODY THEY BELONG TO, SO H= AVE THE DISCIPLES TO DEFEND THE HEAD AND THE HEART OF THE BODY THEY BELONG = TO (in this case Theosophy) FROM INJURY.=20 (From the Letter of a Master.)=20 . . . . AND IF THE LIMBS HAVE TO DEFEND THE HEAD AND HEART OF THEIR BODY, T= HEN WHY NOT SO, ALSO, THE DISCIPLES THEIR TEACHERS AS REPRESENTING THE SCIE= NCE OF THEOSOPHY WHICH CONTAINS AND=20 ----------=20 * "So shalt thou be in full accord with all that lives; bear love to men as= though they were thy brother-pupils, disciples of one Teacher, the sons of= one sweet mother." (Vide Fragment III, in Voice of the Silence, p. 49.)=20 ----------=20 Page 503=20 INCLUDES THE 'HEAD' OF THEIR PRIVILEGE, THE 'HEART' OF THEIR SPIRITUAL GROW= TH? SAITH THE SCRIPTURE:- "HE WHO WIPETH NOT AWAY THE FILTH WITH WHICH THE = PARENT'S BODY MAY HAVE BEEN DEFILED BY AN ENEMY, NEITHER LOVES THE PARENT N= OR HONOURS HIMSELF. HE WHO DEFENDETH NOT THE PERSECUTED AND THE HELPLESS, W= HO GIVETH NOT OF HIS FOOD TO THE STARVING NOR DRAWETH WATER FROM HIS WELL F= OR THE THIRSTY, HATH BEEN BORN TOO SOON IN HUMAN SHAPE. "BEHOLD THE TRUTH B= EFORE YOU: A CLEAN LIFE, AN OPEN MIND, A PURE HEART, AN EAGER INTELLECT, AN= UNVEILED SPIRITUAL PERCEPTION, A BROTHERLINESS FOR ONE'S CO-DISCIPLE, A RE= ADINESS TO GIVE AND RECEIVE ADVICE AND INSTRUCTION, A LOYAL SENSE OF DUTY T= O THE TEACHER, A WILLING OBEDIENCE TO THE BEHESTS OF TRUTH, ONCE WE HAVE PL= ACED OUR CONFIDENCE IN, AND BELIEVE THAT TEACHER TO BE IN POSSESSION OF IT;= A COURAGEOUS ENDURANCE OF PERSONAL INJUSTICE, A BRAVE DECLARATION OF PRINC= IPLES, A VALIANT DEFENCE OF THOSE WHO ARE UNJUSTLY ATTACKED, AND A CONSTANT= EYE TO THE IDEAL OF HUMAN PROGRESSION AND PERFECTION WHICH THE SECRET SCIE= NCE (Gupta-Vidy=E2) DEPICTS--THESE ARE THE GOLDEN STAIRS UP THE STEPS OF WH= ICH THE LEARNER MAY CLIMB TO THE TEMPLE OF DIVINE WISDOM."=20 (From No. III of the Instructions.) " http://www.katinkahesselink.net/esinstr.htm M. Sufilight [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Sat Sep 12 13:56:51 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 93855 invoked from network); 12 Sep 2009 20:20:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Sep 2009 20:20:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f189.google.com) (209.85.221.189) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Sep 2009 20:20:47 -0000 X-Received: by qyk27 with SMTP id 27so1570607qyk.13 for ; Sat, 12 Sep 2009 13:20:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.1.218 with SMTP id 26mr1599106qcg.79.1252786842913; Sat, 12 Sep 2009 13:20:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <188552.87539.qm@web94704.mail.in2.yahoo.com> References: <188552.87539.qm@web94704.mail.in2.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 14:20:42 -0600 Message-ID: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 209.85.221.189 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: the challenges that face the Theosophical society Adyar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=8N30SkQEAuaOqb565HcC7dU_3HARiI9B2uSpi3ZdXfvyFO4lFuo X-Yahoo-Profile: ramadoss226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52855 Most readers on this list do not know much about " Idarmis, Dolores, Elvira", except the last whose name came into prominence at the time of last year's election. >From the names, I suppose they are from the West and were temporarily working at Adyar. From what I understand, Idarmis and Elvira are working at Wheaton. It would be interesting to know if anything of significance that these people did or did not do at Adyar that their names came up in the discussion. Transparency always helps. MKR On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 12:04 AM, preethi muthiah wrote: > > > Dear Katinka, MKR and Sampsa, > > Thank you for your comments. > > I would like to clarify something for you Sampsa. I am not working against > Adyar as the Masters of the Wisdom saw it. I am definitely working against > the Adyar Mrs Radha Burnier rules and dictates, for I am convinced that the > Adyar of Mrs Radha Burnier is not a place fit even for human beings, leave > alone Theosophists. > > Since May 2009 I have openly challenged her authority as President of the > TS and Head of the ES, mainly because she tried to use her authority in the > ES to reinstate her authority of the TS, by forcing members of the ES to > sign what might be called a fealty form, which takes away from individual ES > members their right to think and act intelligently. Also, because, she > allows her niece, Ms Subha Nilakanta, to abuse fellow-workers at the > Editorial Office at Adyar and her niece-in-law, Mrs Uma Nilakanta, to > practise corruption at various levels in the running of Leadbeater Chambers > at Adyar; and by so doing endorses their tyranny and corruption. > > With regard to your comments about my bringing up issues with Ms Mary > Anderson, those are just examples of how Theosophists behave. We might want > to remember the words of the Masters of the Wisdom who tell us that every > word given out by us is accounted for in the akashic records. > > Can we also look at why it is you all hold on to the personalities > mentioned, rather than the points mentioned there? The main point mentioned > in the article entitled "Wither Theosophy; Whither TS" is that the > President, Mrs Radha Burnier, and her followers and supporters on campus at > Adyar do not welcome on campus any more any member who has a view at > variance with their limited one, and especially those who have even a little > of anti-Burnierian attitude. If tolerance is a virtue for Theosophists, > would you not say that the President of the TS and Head of the ES ought to > be the first one to elucidate that very quality? Why does she take every > single suggestion a member of the TS makes against her administration as a > personal insult for which then she must punish and reprimand the poor member > -- whether that member be Mary, Idarmis, Dolores, Elvira, or Preethi or for > that matter our ex-Vice President, Dr John Algeo? We have all suffered for > our > opposition of her ways. So why is our international President so intolerant > that at Adyar today in order for one to serve and work there, one has to > follow the motto: "There is no Religion Higher than Radha Burnier", because > honesty and truth are no longer appreciated at Adyar? > > The Buddha said: When I say, look at the moon, don't look at my finger. I > transpose that to say, when Preethi says, Ms Anderson, Ms Rodriguez, Ms > Gago, went through something, look at the thing being pointed to rather than > at the examples being given to elucidate that point. On the one hand, when I > speak generally without examples, I am blamed for not giving examples. > Today, on your request I am giving you examples. > > Or is the underlying issue something else basically? Something perhaps so > deeply ingrained in human consciousness that Theosophists despite all their > big literature and knowledge are unwilling to overcome it -- Theosophists > fear change just as humans the world over do. Theosophists fear > responsibility just as humans the world over do. Theosophists speak big > words at lectures just as other humans the world over do. Theosophists > prefer like humans the world over to hold on to outer forms rather than > practise their inner essence and meaning. And if their preference for wrong > and ignorance is going to cost the downfall of the TS as founded by the > Masters of the Wisdom, why should they care? As long as the outer form > continues to the exist, we can be comfortable and attend conventions, > lecture tours, workshops, etc. > > Fraternally, > > Preethi > > --- On Sat, 12/9/09, katinka_hesselink > > wrote: > > From: katinka_hesselink > > > Subject: Theos-World Re: the challenges that face the Theosophical society > Adyar > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, 12 September, 2009, 11:05 AM > > > > > Hi MKR, > > For what it's worth, the former dutch chair woman of the Dutch section did > apologize for signing that proposal about disenfranchisement. It turns out > she signed without asking the board whether they agreed. She did so right > before handing over the post to the next chair. > > I personally think it's far less likely that conspiracies are going on, > than that people have simply gone back to work for the TS. > > I think people are confused, which is only natural, and building on that > with conspiracy theories is not going to help the movement any. > > Katinka > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, MKR wrote: > > > > > > Let me add a few of my brief comments on issues related to TS. > > > > > > While the election is over more than a year ago, we all saw the actions > of > > > many of the section leaders and we are yet to see any action to bridge > the > > > cleavage demonstrated in the last meeting of the general council. Some > get > > > the feeling that everyone is hiding behind the silence (possibly planning > > > next surprise move) and we have not seen any demonstration of any > leadership > > > to get going. > > > > > > The continued lack of transparency and the loss of trust engendered by > the > > > ultra secret effort to disenfranchise all of us and the lack of > recognition > > > of the error and need to openly eat crow and apologize leaves many to > > > believe that unless some very bold and creative dramatic steps are taken, > > > the cleavage will continue to linger on and we have to wait for the next > > > generation of young creative imaginative men and women takes over the > > > organization in all parts of the world. > > > > > > While street smartness can come with age, when has world seen > > > septuagenarians and octogenarians responsible for coming up with new and > > > creative ideas to contribute to growth of any enterprise. Let us all hope > > > that we soon find young leaders around the world to take us to the > future. > > > Elders and old men and women cannot do it. > > > > > > MKR > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 1:07 PM, katinka_hesselink < > > > mail@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > I've read Preethi's account of relations at Adyar last year with > interest, > > > > however, I'm not surprised Mary Anderson denies the charges against > Radha. > > > > After all it's one thing to complain a bit about relations with one's > > > > coworkers as they're going on. It's quite another to want them > published on > > > > the internet for anybody to read. > > > > > > > > Theosophists I meet sometimes tell me things and then add: don't > publish > > > > that. I guess Mary Anderson should have said the same to Preethi. Or > better > > > > yet: Preethi should have asked Mary in advance whether she wanted those > > > > comments published. In the Internet age we're all journalists in a > sense and > > > > we have to take the responsibility that comes with that to only publish > > > > about other people what is absolutely essential AND they agree can be > > > > published. > > > > > > > > It's different when it's issues of principle. Like when we were all > > > > protesting the potential change in how the president is elected. Or > when > > > > we're talking about who the new president is going to be. But right now > all > > > > that is settled and we need to get back to the work or running lodges > and > > > > magazines, publishing books and organizing lectures. > > > > > > > > It's a normal fact of life that people who work together sometimes get > > > > along great, and at others don't. Posting such temporary complaints > online a > > > > year after they happened is of no use to anybody, aside from the > interest > > > > most of us have in gossip. > > > > > > > > If the TS is going to move forward into the 21st century in a way that > is > > > > of use to humanity, we're going to have to face some real issues, > instead of > > > > getting side tracked into personal complaints. > > > > > > > > Real issues we're facing: > > > > > > > > - how to build community online in a way that is productive and helps > > > > people grow spiritually > > > > - how to build community offline: help our lodges grow and be places of > > > > real study and a meeting place for people of diverse cultural and > religious > > > > backgrounds > > > > - how to transform our magazines into well... magazines. Quest is an > actual > > > > magazine in this sense, though it might have a higher percentage of in > depth > > > > theosophical content. The Theosophist and the Dutch magazine Theosofia > (two > > > > of the magazines I know) aren't magazines in any other sense than that > > > > they're published in a magazine format. They don't have a column for > letters > > > > sent in, for instance. Theosofia doesn't even have a column by the > editors. > > > > > > > > One issue Preethi is complaining about is valid though: how important > > > > should it be whether people are first, second or third generation > > > > theosophists? (I'm first btw) > > > > > > > > There's a grey line here. It's natural to trust family more than > others, > > > > but when a family member turns out to not be very good at the job you > gave > > > > them, they should be replaced. > > > > > > > > At Adyar another issue is also pressing: the issue of caste. Can > something > > > > be done about the prevalence of high caste Indians in positions of > power? Or > > > > on other words: is enough done to reach out to lower caste (varna, jati > > > > whatever you want to call it) members of the TS? Does the Indian > section > > > > even have such members in positions of influence? > > > > > > > > In the West, similarly, are we reaching out to people of color enough? > to > > > > Muslims? And if we should, how should that be done? > > > > > > > > Those are just a few of the issues I think about when I think about > where > > > > the TS is headed, or should be headed. I do wonder: what do you all > think > > > > the real challenges of the TS are? > > > > > > > > I will only promise to read responses to this post, posted here: > > > > http://theosophical society.wordpres s.com/2009/ 09/11/challenges > -theosophical- society-adyar/ > > > > > > > > Katinka Hesselink > > > > > > > > http://www.katinkah esselink. net/ > > > > http://www.overpein zende.nl/ > > > > http://www.allconsi dering.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love Cricket? Check out live scores, photos, video highlights and more. > Click here http://cricket.yahoo.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Sat Sep 12 20:39:18 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 80038 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2009 03:39:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Sep 2009 03:39:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO qw-out-1920.google.com) (74.125.92.148) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Sep 2009 03:39:11 -0000 X-Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 14so761545qwa.38 for ; Sat, 12 Sep 2009 20:39:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.119.154 with SMTP id z26mr1570074qcq.38.1252813141649; Sat, 12 Sep 2009 20:39:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 22:39:01 -0500 Message-ID: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 74.125.92.148 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Wither Theosophy. Whither the Theosophical Society? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=RplfjlxjsE3JlUWGfKIMBRv9-EQmjtfK_IOKyAK9Yww4jvzqKrw X-Yahoo-Profile: ramadoss226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52856 The comment raises some interesting issues. Firstly, this is the first time I hear that the election results were being transmitted to Adyar by email. I think it is a right move in today=E2=80=99s world when many (except some = bull headed old folks who still enjoy snailmail for the time float it gives) use email for quick and inexpensive mode of communication. I am sure considering the well planned and coordinated effort by many section leaders to defeat Radha Burnier, the election results sent to Adyar was being shared between them. The only folks who were kept in total darkness are the ordinary members like you and me who no one cares for! There was no reason why the section results should not have been posted on this and other maillists and websites. May be the hang up is that no one sa= w any need to keep ordinary members informed. This is very understandable whe= n you consider the fact that a quartet even tried to secretly disenfranchise all of us and seize the power. The second issue is that the International Secretary holds a very important office. We all saw the effort by one of the underlings of the Secretary getting involved in the nomination stage even before you and me were aware of the call for nomination. We do not know if the Intl Secretary was in any way active in the backgroun= d prior to the nomination in the planning and coordination efforts to defeat Radha Burnier. I will not be surprised at all if we find out more about her involvement. Very little information has come out about all the planning and coordinatio= n and background electioneering efforts that went on behind the scenes long before the nomination call went out. My hope is, the information is bound t= o trickle out as time passes on. I am sure such revelation would be very interesting for us and future historians. If anyone has any information or even gossip about the above issues, feel free to share with all of us. MKR On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:09 AM, seeker_preethi w= rote: > > Also, when the results for the elections were being received by email from the various Sections, Ms Anderson did mention on several occasions that Mrs Burnier would no longer trust her (Mary) with receiving the emails herself, > > > > > > > > Recent Activity > > > Visit Your Group > > Need traffic? > > Drive customers > > With search ads > > on Yahoo! > Hollywood kids > > in the spotlight > > Their moms > > share secrets > Y! Groups blog > > the best source > > for the latest > > scoop on Groups. > . > >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From semockr@hotmail.com Sun Sep 13 08:46:51 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: semockr@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 87913 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2009 15:46:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Sep 2009 15:46:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n45b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.159) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Sep 2009 15:46:47 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.171] by n45.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Sep 2009 15:46:29 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.12] by t13.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Sep 2009 15:46:28 -0000 Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 15:46:26 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <62332569-48EA-4E3F-9592-F8616A14E9EF@aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.168.159 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 76.186.232.252 From: "semockr" Subject: Re: Theos-World Zero Point - Leon X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=68064314; y=wX5RbmTYWrpx0IukxNsR-KUe9U_WdADOE9SN8KbA4lin4A X-Yahoo-Profile: semockr X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52857 This is the most theosophical post I've seen in here for a long time and it= gets down to cases in science and religion to get at the truth. I dont kno= w about Cass but I for one still believe in a personal God, not an external= one however. --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Leon Maurer wrote: > > Cass, >=20 > I don't think you are too far off the mark... >=20 > But, at the primal beginning of each cycle of manifestation, the=20=20 > cosmos is in a state of rest -- which consists of its laya point of=20=20 > pure consciousness (of absolute space) spinning in an angular=20=20 > momentum of force rays that correspond to the total potential mass-=20 > energy of each level of the past and future seven fold fractal=20=20 > involved manifest fields of cosmic consciousness. >=20 > It's this laya point that Einstein called the "singularity" prior to=20=20 > the birth of the spacetime continuum... And that the "new science" of = =20 > today sees as being in the center of every black-hole (now called a=20=20 > "black-white whole" by Nassim Haramein) as well as in every zero-=20 > point in total holographic spacetime. (Incidentally, Haramein's=20=20 > theory is the closest science has come to verifying the ABC model as=20=20 > well as HPB's metaphysics). >=20 > THerefore, we might think of this cosmic singularity, or primal=20=20 > dimensionless atom of "abstract motion", as the "God particle" that=20=20 > is the "seven robed mother" of the Book of Dzyan -- whose still zero-=20 > point center of pure consciousness is the "father"... And, as HPB=20=20 > pointed out, is the primal state of "absolute space" that contains=20=20 > the rootless root of both spirit or consciousness, and matter or mass-=20 > energy. So, where's the need for an external personal God creator=20=20 > when the cosmos is its own creator, sustainer, destroyer or Brahma,=20=20 > Vishnu, Shiva (Kether, Binah, Chochma)? >=20 > Thus, the inherent consciousness at the primal beginning of our=20=20 > present cosmic cycle of manifestation, is the triggering intent of=20=20 > will that wakes up and initiates the emanation and radiation of the=20=20 > manifest cosmos and all its fractal involved energy fields -- which=20=20 > are governed solely by the laws of cycles inherent in original spin=20=20 > momentum, after the release of the reactive nature of karma -- like a = =20 > compressed coil spring explosively expanding when the latch holding=20=20 > is down is slid open. That's why science calls it the "big=20=20 > bang" (and, now, considers each galaxy as starting with an analogous=20=20 > little big bang.) >=20 > Since the only eternal unchanging reality is that zero-point of pure=20=20 > consciousness -- that's why the ever changing manifest cosmos > and all the evolving forms in it, are considered as temporary=20=20 > illusions or Maya. >=20 > For a closer view of this concept check out my new blog, "How It All=20=20 > Began" at: > http://dzyanmaster.wordpress.com/ > and compare it with the theories of Haramein at his web site and in=20=20 > his video lectures at: > http://www.theresonanceproject.org/ > http://www.youtube.com/watch?=20 > v=3DpPgII_4ciFU&feature=3DPlayList&p=3D88EDD1895A2F5587&index=3D0&playnex= t=3D1 > or http://tinyurl.com/haramein >=20 > Leon >=20 >=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 >=20 >=20 > On Sep 7, 2009, at 9/7/098:12 PM, Cass Silva wrote: >=20 > > Leon, > > This is in response to a poster who struggles with the idea of a=20=20 > > godcreated universe. Am I on the right track? > > Cass > > > > Can I propose that this primeval particle was a combination of=20=20 > > matter and energy? As matter is unable to be destroyed only=20=20 > > changed, could this zero mass reach a point that its constitution=20=20 > > in static equilibrium could no longer be contained and that change=20=20 > > was the inevitable result of an inherent force acting upon itself? > > > > This then suggests that matter and energy are in a constant state=20=20 > > of flux (albeit over billions and billions of years) from static to = =20 > > energetic and that expansion and contraction are a result or an=20=20 > > effect of changing interacting forces. > > > > This then takes god out of the zero point and replaces god with=20=20 > > 'force'. A force that is subject to its own laws? > > > > Cass > > > > > > > >=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 > > ______________________________________________________________________= =20 > > ____________ > > Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. > > Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > From silva_cass@yahoo.com Sun Sep 13 16:36:15 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 49009 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2009 23:36:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Sep 2009 23:36:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52102.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.105) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Sep 2009 23:36:09 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 1029 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Sep 2009 23:36:08 -0000 Message-ID: <593114.828.qm@web52102.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: uriQdEQVM1ntoLoPyHLZmPAdpGo41WRfrq8MLHbDqXGEgZgvjWq_9xwJEEYS2X_ognDq2VTnsk9PbRz6c3f7FTfqjAULLDFjR2z3iNr96Ku4HsOjRnhKMX0WtACSS..s7Dn0Np69kSPMDk813sY1VSan6K4o0fc5y01gUt6E8_AO.CCSkbio_hfVDW9hVUs0kusjJMa5u61TmuWjjwbmS8ovFyFOjpfnLtgffSvv0AXU0LIJPpNulJE602k_3MdSLkKHxD4sOKFT1ZLRojwwtK9hm9YKSLG.RRocTJV7cBdhnHzDRxssEVoDQMS5SxjybWGQeCloK6jHefSntK79fBJO6eI1OMAcsxe69ZfmnRrioW6cVQAi7g-- X-Received: from [122.108.22.41] by web52102.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 13 Sep 2009 16:36:08 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1358.27 YahooMailWebService/0.7.347.2 References: Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 16:36:08 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.105 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Zero Point - Leon X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=myEu9-zMmwYmTS6wbL0PK5ugCe1XX6uxUSoCkZvw2FysipaV8Q X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52858 No, I don't accept a personal god - if you do, Semock, then perhaps theosop= hy is not your path. Cass > >From: semockr >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Monday, 14 September, 2009 1:46:26 AM >Subject: Re: Theos-World Zero Point - Leon > >=A0=20 >This is the most theosophical post I've seen in here for a long time and i= t gets down to cases in science and religion to get at the truth. I dont kn= ow about Cass but I for one still believe in a personal God, not an externa= l one however. > >--- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Leon Maurer wrote: >> >> Cass, >>=20 >> I don't think you are too far off the mark... >>=20 >> But, at the primal beginning of each cycle of manifestation, the=20 >> cosmos is in a state of rest -- which consists of its laya point of=20 >> pure consciousness (of absolute space) spinning in an angular=20 >> momentum of force rays that correspond to the total potential mass-=20 >> energy of each level of the past and future seven fold fractal=20 >> involved manifest fields of cosmic consciousness. >>=20 >> It's this laya point that Einstein called the "singularity" prior to=20 >> the birth of the spacetime continuum... And that the "new science" of=20 >> today sees as being in the center of every black-hole (now called a=20 >> "black-white whole" by Nassim Haramein) as well as in every zero-=20 >> point in total holographic spacetime. (Incidentally, Haramein's=20 >> theory is the closest science has come to verifying the ABC model as=20 >> well as HPB's metaphysics) . >>=20 >> THerefore, we might think of this cosmic singularity, or primal=20 >> dimensionless atom of "abstract motion", as the "God particle" that=20 >> is the "seven robed mother" of the Book of Dzyan -- whose still zero-=20 >> point center of pure consciousness is the "father"... And, as HPB=20 >> pointed out, is the primal state of "absolute space" that contains=20 >> the rootless root of both spirit or consciousness, and matter or mass-=20 >> energy. So, where's the need for an external personal God creator=20 >> when the cosmos is its own creator, sustainer, destroyer or Brahma,=20 >> Vishnu, Shiva (Kether, Binah, Chochma)? >>=20 >> Thus, the inherent consciousness at the primal beginning of our=20 >> present cosmic cycle of manifestation, is the triggering intent of=20 >> will that wakes up and initiates the emanation and radiation of the=20 >> manifest cosmos and all its fractal involved energy fields -- which=20 >> are governed solely by the laws of cycles inherent in original spin=20 >> momentum, after the release of the reactive nature of karma -- like a=20 >> compressed coil spring explosively expanding when the latch holding=20 >> is down is slid open. That's why science calls it the "big=20 >> bang" (and, now, considers each galaxy as starting with an analogous=20 >> little big bang.) >>=20 >> Since the only eternal unchanging reality is that zero-point of pure=20 >> consciousness -- that's why the ever changing manifest cosmos >> and all the evolving forms in it, are considered as temporary=20 >> illusions or Maya. >>=20 >> For a closer view of this concept check out my new blog, "How It All=20 >> Began" at: >> http://dzyanmaster. wordpress. com/ >> and compare it with the theories of Haramein at his web site and in=20 >> his video lectures at: >> http://www.thereson anceproject. org/ >> http://www.youtube. com/watch?=20 >> v=3DpPgII_4ciFU& feature=3DPlayList &p=3D88EDD1895A2F5 587&index=3D 0&pl= aynext=3D 1 >> or http://tinyurl. com/haramein >>=20 >> Leon >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On Sep 7, 2009, at 9/7/098:12 PM, Cass Silva wrote: >>=20 >> > Leon, >> > This is in response to a poster who struggles with the idea of a=20 >> > godcreated universe. Am I on the right track? >> > Cass >> > >> > Can I propose that this primeval particle was a combination of=20 >> > matter and energy? As matter is unable to be destroyed only=20 >> > changed, could this zero mass reach a point that its constitution=20 >> > in static equilibrium could no longer be contained and that change=20 >> > was the inevitable result of an inherent force acting upon itself? >> > >> > This then suggests that matter and energy are in a constant state=20 >> > of flux (albeit over billions and billions of years) from static to=20 >> > energetic and that expansion and contraction are a result or an=20 >> > effect of changing interacting forces. >> > >> > This then takes god out of the zero point and replaces god with=20 >> > 'force'. A force that is subject to its own laws? >> > >> > Cass >> > >> > >> > >> >=20 >> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _=20 >> > ____________ >> > Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. >> > Learn more: http://au.overview. mail.yahoo. com/ >> > >> > >> > ------------ --------- --------- ------ >> > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >>=20 >>=20 >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > > > _____________________________________________________________________= _____________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Sun Sep 13 16:37:42 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 15066 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2009 23:37:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Sep 2009 23:37:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52106.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.109) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Sep 2009 23:37:39 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 19581 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Sep 2009 23:37:37 -0000 Message-ID: <879726.17615.qm@web52106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: .YHY9IUVM1mRsMydSu87jht87qJGaLDl8j.tDlx0pB3Mkv0iPsdnXrnMh4NuVHczdw5vaqstSTonQPlOKxJrcl5bglry2McpXPkwEVqs4VEHRswPnyB6QC1eNV3_mcIL2xM8P4CAkKkrBdm_jbp5NMrqnAHQBIjqOimXh80kpSBr9Gwzr_1gm4.39oDkTQQdd.c6VkGFADKZ1GoBXlyM07J_RSfCKtGbV3p.TbEJyxUtNVQiFSDnR61AudwgcauZa1npnjK8dJIumJ9lTp5ilqsiNS23PdBJLiXHo3U082.4gBEfr5CgB8mdA3EQ7tTpFB9x1Z89aYV255_NVhgp1lTyMu35q653oa6asg_Nqg-- X-Received: from [122.108.22.41] by web52106.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 13 Sep 2009 16:37:37 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1358.27 YahooMailWebService/0.7.347.2 References: Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 16:37:37 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.109 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World the challenges that face the Theosophical society Adyar X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=7SN3Vmz3QFS_tdN-5f-I2cNzhQLpsV3wOlceUkoi_cGp7pyQXw X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52859 so we can have something to bitch about! lol Cass > >From: "Drpsionic@aol.com" >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Saturday, 12 September, 2009 8:16:54 AM >Subject: Re: Theos-World the challenges that face the Theosophical society= Adyar > >=A0=20 >I wonder why we even need leaders in the first place. > >Chuck the Heretic > > >In a message dated 9/11/2009 2:39:08 P.M. Central America Standard T,=20 >mkr777@gmail. com writes: > >Let me add a few of my brief comments on issues related to TS. > >While the election is over more than a year ago, we all saw the actions of >many of the section leaders and we are yet to see any action to bridge the >cleavage demonstrated in the last meeting of the general council. Some get >the feeling that everyone is hiding behind the silence (possibly planning >next surprise move) and we have not seen any demonstration of any=20 >leadership >to get going. > >The continued lack of transparency and the loss of trust engendered by the >ultra secret effort to disenfranchise all of us and the lack of recognitio= n >of the error and need to openly eat crow and apologize leaves many to >believe that unless some very bold and creative dramatic steps are taken, >the cleavage will continue to linger on and we have to wait for the next >generation of young creative imaginative men and women takes over the >organization in all parts of the world. > >While street smartness can come with age, when has world seen >septuagenarians and octogenarians responsible for coming up with new and >creative ideas to contribute to growth of any enterprise. Let us all hope >that we soon find young leaders around the world to take us to the future. >Elders and old men and women cannot do it. > >MKR > >On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 1:07 PM, katinka_hesselink < >_mail@katinkahessel imail@k_ (mailto:mail@katinkahesseli nk.net) > wrote: > >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> I've read Preethi's account of relations at Adyar last year with=20 >interest, >> however, I'm not surprised Mary Anderson denies the charges against=20 >Radha. >> After all it's one thing to complain a bit about relations with one's >> coworkers as they're going on. It's quite another to want them published= =20 >on >> the internet for anybody to read. >> >> Theosophists I meet sometimes tell me things and then add: don't publish >> that. I guess Mary Anderson should have said the same to Preethi. Or=20 >better >> yet: Preethi should have asked Mary in advance whether she wanted those >> comments published. In the Internet age we're all journalists in a sense= =20 >and >> we have to take the responsibility that comes with that to only publish >> about other people what is absolutely essential AND they agree can be >> published. >> >> It's different when it's issues of principle. Like when we were all >> protesting the potential change in how the president is elected. Or when >> we're talking about who the new president is going to be. But right now= =20 >all >> that is settled and we need to get back to the work or running lodges an= d >> magazines, publishing books and organizing lectures. >> >> It's a normal fact of life that people who work together sometimes get >> along great, and at others don't. Posting such temporary complaints=20 >online a >> year after they happened is of no use to anybody, aside from the=20 >interest >> most of us have in gossip. >> >> If the TS is going to move forward into the 21st century in a way that i= s >> of use to humanity, we're going to have to face some real issues,=20 >instead of >> getting side tracked into personal complaints. >> >> Real issues we're facing: >> >> - how to build community online in a way that is productive and helps >> people grow spiritually >> - how to build community offline: help our lodges grow and be places of >> real study and a meeting place for people of diverse cultural and=20 >religious >> backgrounds >> - how to transform our magazines into well... magazines. Quest is an=20 >actual >> magazine in this sense, though it might have a higher percentage of in=20 >depth >> theosophical content. The Theosophist and the Dutch magazine Theosofia=20 >(two >> of the magazines I know) aren't magazines in any other sense than that >> they're published in a magazine format. They don't have a column for=20 >letters >> sent in, for instance. Theosofia doesn't even have a column by the=20 >editors. >> >> One issue Preethi is complaining about is valid though: how important >> should it be whether people are first, second or third generation >> theosophists? (I'm first btw) >> >> There's a grey line here. It's natural to trust family more than others, >> but when a family member turns out to not be very good at the job you=20 >gave >> them, they should be replaced. >> >> At Adyar another issue is also pressing: the issue of caste. Can=20 >something >> be done about the prevalence of high caste Indians in positions of=20 >power? Or >> on other words: is enough done to reach out to lower caste (varna, jati >> whatever you want to call it) members of the TS? Does the Indian section >> even have such members in positions of influence? >> >> In the West, similarly, are we reaching out to people of color enough? t= o >> Muslims? And if we should, how should that be done? >> >> Those are just a few of the issues I think about when I think about wher= e >> the TS is headed, or should be headed. I do wonder: what do you all thin= k >> the real challenges of the TS are? >> >> I will only promise to read responses to this post, posted here: >>=20 >_http://theosophical http://theosophi http://theohttp: //theosophihttp: //= theosophttp: //theosop_=20 >(http://theosophical society.wordpres s.com/2009/ 09/11/challenges -theoso= phical- society-adyar/)=20 >> >> Katinka Hesselink >> >> _http://www.katinkah http://wwhttp_ (http://www.katinkah esselink. net/)= =20 >> _http://www.overpein http://ww_ (http://www.overpein zende.nl/)=20 >> _http://www.allconsi http://www. _ (http://www.allconsi dering.com/)=20 >> >>=20 >> > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > _____________________________________________________________________= _____________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From semockr@hotmail.com Sun Sep 13 19:20:17 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: semockr@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 43794 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2009 02:20:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Sep 2009 02:20:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n38b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.152) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Sep 2009 02:20:11 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.171] by n38.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Sep 2009 02:19:22 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.32] by t13.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Sep 2009 02:19:22 -0000 Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 02:19:20 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1141870782.2478781252036351266.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.168.152 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 76.186.232.252 From: "semockr" Subject: Theos-World Re: Faked moon landing? Update -- Shock in Amsterdam X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=68064314; y=JezgZtYUhj5HCHCw0AUPDv6QEHM319zQj3q_PGCZGOES2w X-Yahoo-Profile: semockr X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52860 This has to be the longest running post in here, I posted to this thread 6m= o ago and the argument still rages. Those who insist it was fake have their= reasons.=20 Hitler is alive & well today too and serves in Obama's cabinet as a nondesc= ript personage and by all accounts, he is relishing his new role which give= s him a front row seat in watching his policys take hold anew. --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Augoeides-222@... wrote: > > Frank,=20 > Even India validates the Moon landing lol.=20 >=20 >=20 > Indian Satellite Confirms Moon Landing=20 >=20 > >>>http://www.moondaily.com/reports/Indian_satellite_confirmed_US_moon_la= nding_scientist_999.html<<<=20 >=20 > John=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "Frank Reitemeyer" =20 > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 > Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:07:33 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific= =20 > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Faked moon landing? Update -- Shock in Amste= rdam=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Ok John, I was really forgetting my vitamin C...:-)=20 >=20 > In any hierarchy which is openly or hidden under control of persons with = a=20 > marxist/ bastard socialism (HPB) mindset, everyone, who does not agree wi= th=20 > the Diamat or Dialectic Materialism and the Marxist world revolution thro= ugh=20 > struggle of the classes and the erection of the "dictature of the working= =20 > class" [metaphor for parasite elected ones, which never have worked]=20 > everyone, who does not only not support that conspiracy, but even if=20 > he/she/it [as a white male dominance rogue I was self-gendering my text t= o=20 > suit pc interests] has ANY DOUBT in Diamat or the "scientific proofen=20 > historical sequence of socialism and its aim of the final communstic worl= d=20 > government" is declared MAD.=20 >=20 > Re the moon flights.=20 >=20 > As Ernst Stuhlinger has declared that on the screens in Houston control=20 > center there were no other pictures to see than on tv and that the fake=20 > "live" broadcast of Apollo 11 was also seen in the control center and tha= t=20 > Nasa does not allow any research, the best source would be the still livi= ng=20 > astronauts.=20 >=20 > The astronauts are but astronots as no American was ever on the moon, whi= ch=20 > is clearly profen by the reverse speech examination:=20 >=20 > http://www.reversespeechinternational.com/moonlanding.php=20 >=20 > There are many, many lies in space, too.=20 >=20 > Another example: The establishment and the monopoly mass medias make beli= eve=20 > that the Russian Juri Gagarin was the first man in space in 1961.=20 >=20 > The truth is that it was a German, Joachim Kuettner in 1943 in Peenemuend= e,=20 > Mecklenburg. When in USA his name was americanized to Jack Keuttner.=20 > From Russian files just leaked by historian Friedrich Georg.=20 >=20 > For what reason history is faked?=20 >=20 > Frank=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: Augoeides-222@...=20 > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 > Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 3:36 AM=20 > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Faked moon landing? Update -- Shock in=20 > Amsterdam=20 >=20 > Frank,=20 > Take your pills.=20 > John=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "Frank Reitemeyer" < ringding2009@... >=20 > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 > Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 5:43:18 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacifi= c=20 > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Faked moon landing? Update -- Shock in=20 > Amsterdam=20 >=20 > >America did land on the moon even the Russians say so lol!=20 >=20 > John, I have no problem with the moon landing.=20 > I would be happy, if they did it.=20 >=20 > But we live no longer in the middle ages and I want to KNOW and not BELIE= VE.=20 >=20 > As there is still after 40 years no transparency and no research on first= =20 > hand photos are allowed, I would not believe the story, even if the Buddh= a=20 > would tell it.=20 >=20 > Blavatsky did also teach not to believe anything another one says, becaus= e=20 > there are now forces around, which spread lies as never before in histroy= =20 > and try to hypnotize whole nations.=20 >=20 > I am interested in facts, not in fairy tales.=20 >=20 > After 40 years and when a cell phone or a watch has more advanced mirco=20 > technique is the Apollo machines, there is no reason to block research fo= r=20 > fear of technological theft.=20 >=20 > BTW, Russia is a really poor witness for Apollo.=20 >=20 > Russia never congratulated during the six alleged moon landings period.=20 >=20 > And Russia was since the October revolution in 1917 hidden colony of Wall= =20 > Street.=20 > Blavatsky writes about the Rothschild conspiracy in the 1880'ies.=20 >=20 > In 1905 the red revolution nearly succeeded.=20 > William Q. Judge always was in fear that the satanic revolution of 1789 w= ill=20 > never happen again.=20 >=20 > In 1917 it happened again. Over 90% of the red Soviet council were Jewish= .=20 > They killed the Czar and the leading German elite of Russia, satanic,=20 > complete destruction of all culture and moral, bringing the country back= =20 > into the middle ages.=20 >=20 > Moscow declared world revolution by violence and the "liberation" of all= =20 > nations and the invading of all countries in Eastern and Western Europe.= =20 >=20 > BTW, it was long before your pet politician big H entered the scene.=20 >=20 > Even during the alleged "cold war" Russia received always the newest=20 > military and civil technology from USA including money.=20 >=20 > So, there were good reasons, do be silent.=20 >=20 > The white five-point star (USA) and the yellow five-point star (USSR) whe= re=20 > never enemies.=20 >=20 > And did not Ronnie Reagan admit it in his UN speech, when he spkoe of the= =20 > alien force which is already among us and that USA and USSR will work=20 > together:=20 > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DXdKXJomf9Dc=20 >=20 > Guess, which alien force he hints to.=20 >=20 > It is that force, which never surrendered in 1945.=20 >=20 > BTW, I hope, I find the time to answer to your reply re the Slavonic race= .=20 > Unfortunately you seem never have read serious works about it.=20 > I will give you some lessons from medivial sources next opportunity and y= ou=20 > will see that and why the myth of an alleged Slavonic race is in my humbl= e=20 > opinion one of the key topics of bastard socialism as HPB called it and o= ne=20 > of the major causes for the tragic events in the 20th century in Europe.= =20 >=20 > Best wishes,=20 >=20 > Frank=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]=20 >=20 >=20 >=20=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > From Augoeides-222@comcast.net Sun Sep 13 23:14:20 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: augoeides-222@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 70259 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2009 06:14:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m4.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Sep 2009 06:14:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO QMTA06.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net) (76.96.30.56) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Sep 2009 06:14:13 -0000 X-Received: from OMTA15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.71]) by QMTA06.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id gW1s1c0051Y3wxoA6WDxEv; Mon, 14 Sep 2009 06:13:57 +0000 X-Received: from sz0103.ev.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.26.163]) by OMTA15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id gWDx1c0073X8bDG8bWDxSi; Mon, 14 Sep 2009 06:13:57 +0000 Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 06:13:57 +0000 (UTC) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <1184731681.788781252908837078.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Zimbra 5.0.16_GA_2927.RHEL5_64 (ZimbraWebClient - FF3.0 (Win)/5.0.16_GA_2927.RHEL5_64) X-Originating-IP: 76.96.30.56 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Faked moon landing? Update -- Shock in Amsterdam X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=314500470; y=ZQklFC5KNa5oRW8xWfkjiOjGpcCywHV9a6IE0SV2QA-QiK0FonNMGAsdJW_9s6J5 X-Yahoo-Profile: sessesgenbarpharanges Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52861 More mindless dribble. ----- Original Message ----- From: "semockr" To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 7:19:20 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Theos-World Re: Faked moon landing? Update -- Shock in Amsterdam This has to be the longest running post in here, I posted to this thread 6mo ago and the argument still rages. Those who insist it was fake have their reasons. Hitler is alive & well today too and serves in Obama's cabinet as a nondescript personage and by all accounts, he is relishing his new role which gives him a front row seat in watching his policys take hold anew. --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com , Augoeides-222@... wrote: > > Frank, > Even India validates the Moon landing lol. > > > Indian Satellite Confirms Moon Landing > > >>> http://www.moondaily.com/reports/Indian_satellite_confirmed_US_moon_landing_scientist_999.html <<< > > John > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frank Reitemeyer" > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2009 6:07:33 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Faked moon landing? Update -- Shock in Amsterdam > > > > > > > Ok John, I was really forgetting my vitamin C...:-) > > In any hierarchy which is openly or hidden under control of persons with a > marxist/ bastard socialism (HPB) mindset, everyone, who does not agree with > the Diamat or Dialectic Materialism and the Marxist world revolution through > struggle of the classes and the erection of the "dictature of the working > class" [metaphor for parasite elected ones, which never have worked] > everyone, who does not only not support that conspiracy, but even if > he/she/it [as a white male dominance rogue I was self-gendering my text to > suit pc interests] has ANY DOUBT in Diamat or the "scientific proofen > historical sequence of socialism and its aim of the final communstic world > government" is declared MAD. > > Re the moon flights. > > As Ernst Stuhlinger has declared that on the screens in Houston control > center there were no other pictures to see than on tv and that the fake > "live" broadcast of Apollo 11 was also seen in the control center and that > Nasa does not allow any research, the best source would be the still living > astronauts. > > The astronauts are but astronots as no American was ever on the moon, which > is clearly profen by the reverse speech examination: > > http://www.reversespeechinternational.com/moonlanding.php > > There are many, many lies in space, too. > > Another example: The establishment and the monopoly mass medias make believe > that the Russian Juri Gagarin was the first man in space in 1961. > > The truth is that it was a German, Joachim Kuettner in 1943 in Peenemuende, > Mecklenburg. When in USA his name was americanized to Jack Keuttner. > From Russian files just leaked by historian Friedrich Georg. > > For what reason history is faked? > > Frank > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Augoeides-222@... > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 3:36 AM > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Faked moon landing? Update -- Shock in > Amsterdam > > Frank, > Take your pills. > John > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frank Reitemeyer" < ringding2009@... > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2009 5:43:18 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Faked moon landing? Update -- Shock in > Amsterdam > > >America did land on the moon even the Russians say so lol! > > John, I have no problem with the moon landing. > I would be happy, if they did it. > > But we live no longer in the middle ages and I want to KNOW and not BELIEVE. > > As there is still after 40 years no transparency and no research on first > hand photos are allowed, I would not believe the story, even if the Buddha > would tell it. > > Blavatsky did also teach not to believe anything another one says, because > there are now forces around, which spread lies as never before in histroy > and try to hypnotize whole nations. > > I am interested in facts, not in fairy tales. > > After 40 years and when a cell phone or a watch has more advanced mirco > technique is the Apollo machines, there is no reason to block research for > fear of technological theft. > > BTW, Russia is a really poor witness for Apollo. > > Russia never congratulated during the six alleged moon landings period. > > And Russia was since the October revolution in 1917 hidden colony of Wall > Street. > Blavatsky writes about the Rothschild conspiracy in the 1880'ies. > > In 1905 the red revolution nearly succeeded. > William Q. Judge always was in fear that the satanic revolution of 1789 will > never happen again. > > In 1917 it happened again. Over 90% of the red Soviet council were Jewish. > They killed the Czar and the leading German elite of Russia, satanic, > complete destruction of all culture and moral, bringing the country back > into the middle ages. > > Moscow declared world revolution by violence and the "liberation" of all > nations and the invading of all countries in Eastern and Western Europe. > > BTW, it was long before your pet politician big H entered the scene. > > Even during the alleged "cold war" Russia received always the newest > military and civil technology from USA including money. > > So, there were good reasons, do be silent. > > The white five-point star (USA) and the yellow five-point star (USSR) where > never enemies. > > And did not Ronnie Reagan admit it in his UN speech, when he spkoe of the > alien force which is already among us and that USA and USSR will work > together: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdKXJomf9Dc > > Guess, which alien force he hints to. > > It is that force, which never surrendered in 1945. > > BTW, I hope, I find the time to answer to your reply re the Slavonic race. > Unfortunately you seem never have read serious works about it. > I will give you some lessons from medivial sources next opportunity and you > will see that and why the myth of an alleged Slavonic race is in my humble > opinion one of the key topics of bastard socialism as HPB called it and one > of the major causes for the tragic events in the 20th century in Europe. > > Best wishes, > > Frank > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Mon Sep 14 08:39:00 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 38157 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2009 15:38:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Sep 2009 15:38:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mx01.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.11) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Sep 2009 15:38:53 -0000 X-Received: from 56340ee0.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.14.224] helo=khidr) by mx01.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1MnDZk-0007oT-14 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 14 Sep 2009 17:34:46 +0200 Message-ID: <001601ca3550$e75eb580$e00e3456@khidr> To: References: <509925240.254741252706284159.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 17:34:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.11 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" Subject: Re: Theos-World Ratna-gotra-vibhaga and H. P. Blavatsky X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=3HJk3A-wmHSmv3Kb1182XAzspvcnYaNImlNwBG0Z0jS1 X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52862 Dear John My views are: 1. Yes. I guess there are Bon and then earliere "Bon" groups and in fact also= other groups. For instance Uyghur people: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_people B=F6n "Tenzin Gyatso, the fourteenth Dalai Lama, has recently recognized the B=F6= n tradition as the fifth principal spiritual school of Tibet, along with th= e Nyingma, Sakya, Kagyu, and Gelug schools of Buddhism, despite the long hi= storical competition of influences between the B=F6n tradition and Buddhism= in Tibet." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%B6n 2. John wrote: "All the various sects then who were prior to the appearance of the Gelug h= ave to be continuers of the Bon Transmission irrespective of any declaratio= n of Theosophy or HPB." Not quite. The theosophical tradition, and core Gelug teachings have their= origins in the teachings given in the Upanishads, and also the ancient Zen= d Avesta written in senzar language (TS Glossary, p. 386 om Zend-Avesta) Zend Avesta: "As the translator of the Vend=EEd=E2d remarks in a foot note (see int. xxx= .): "what it is customary to call 'the Zend language', ought to be named 't= he Avesta language', the Zend being no language at all and if the word be u= sed as the designation of one, it can be rightly applied only to the Pahlav= i". But then, the Pahlavi itself is only the language into which certain or= iginal portions of the Avesta are translated. What name should be given to = the old Avesta language, and particularly to the "special dialect, older th= an the general language of the Avesta" (Darmst.), in which the five Ghthas = in the Yasna are written? To this day the Orientalists are mute upon the su= bject. Why should not the Zend be of the same family, if not identical with= the Zen-sar, meaning also the speech explaining the abstract symbol, or th= e "mystery language," used by Initiates?" (TS Glossary, p. 386 om Zend-Avesta) http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/ATUVWXYZ.htm#z also http://www.archive.org/stream/theosophicalglo00meadgoog#page/n396/mode/1up 3. Thanks. I liked the PDF. Yet, various teachings within Jonang are - as far as I know - not in agreem= ent with Tsong-Khapa's teachings. 4. More later. M. Sufilight ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net=20 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:58 PM Subject: Re: Theos-World Ratna-gotra-vibhaga and H. P. Blavatsky =20=20=20=20 Morten,=20 Well it takes in quite lot of history in my view and I have views that co= llide with fixed idea's lol. I entertain the view that the Bon might be the= ancient "Pre-buddhist Buddhists that HPB pointed to. The reason why is tha= t the Nyingpa openly have posted that they originally received the Dzogchen= from the Bon who possessed it for centurys, the same for the Kagyu in my v= iew. All the various sects then who were prior to the appearance of the Gel= ug have to be continuers of the Bon Transmission irrespective of any declar= ation of Theosophy or HPB. I have several times posted of the pinnacle impo= rtance of the Rimed Legacy and Lineage and Transmission on this Forum in re= gards to "How the Swans Came to America". Luminous Mind and Clear Primordia= l Awareness and the Absolutism of HPB seem to me to be the same Principle T= eaching however clothed or adorned. Tibet has long had the five sacred colo= rs it seems natural that they may also communicate a context of five primar= y transmission sects regarding Tibetan mind consciousness streams as well a= s the five Buddha Family's, Dhyan Chohans, Skandhas, etc. "How do we count"= is a great proposition that indicates framework of organization. Shalu Tem= ple is a very interesting history. BTW , there have been many Tibetan Women= Adepts and there are some good online websites with short biography's and = also some Photos of some of them. Here is a nice PDF File about "Awareness"= .=20 Ordinary Awareness & Pristine Awareness=20 >>>ttp://www.jonangfoundation.org/pdf/jf_rangjung_1.pdf<<<=20 Whether Scientology "Thetan", Theosophical "Monad", Sparks, Rays, or "Uni= ts of Awareness" of the Absolute, the process is identical, the Absolute "w= ills" "The Game Leela" by the projection of a maya creation which is the "s= econdary" within which "Units of Awareness" (You, me, others) may take posi= tion and viewpoint and assume a secondary beingness ( I AM-That- I AM" in s= amsara journey of experiential extension. The 5 acts of Siva' Projection, M= aintenance, Veiling, Withdrawal and Grace describe the environment of the L= eela Game and Return . A secondary maya is projected, by Kriya it is caused= to Persist (Maintenance) in order for the Game to continue, at an appropia= te developmental stage "Veiling" occurs ( what is "veiled" is the essential= original memory of our Non-Dual Beingness and (Our original Nature as Abso= lute). As the creation builds "the 4th action initiates - viz "Withdrawal" = ( the Withdrawal indicates that even the memory of the Absolute Nature itse= lf is removed, blinded, occluded and is unaccessable to our consciousness w= hilst partaking of the "sport" of secondary maya : matter , energy, space a= nd time and physical quasi-tangibility"s made concrete by the expedient cre= ation of "mind" (an instrumentality necessary in the secondary creation pro= jection which takes place in the ground of the Divine Fire, Life and Wisdom= in which we all have Participation whether conscious or unconscious of the= fact. The Mandaean Declaration "And Life is Victorious" is a statement of = Truth.=20 Seeing With Naked Awareness=20 Dream Yoga and the practice of the Natural Light=20 The Heart Drops of the Dharmakaya teaching of the Bon (Blavatsky got her = Heart Drop)=20 Ornament of Stainless Light (On the Kalachakra)=20 Radiant Luminous Mind=20 are all good search and research topics that when explored and read evide= nce parellel ground with Blavatsky's Doctrine.=20 The Anuttara Yoga was held by others previos to the gelug plunder of thei= r legacy. Modern scholars find deficiencys with the versions of Evens-Wentz= and do not rate him as high as Theosophists do.=20 >>>are great magicians and indulge in practices an Adept of the good Law = would feel disgusted with -- such as the well known phenomenon of ripping o= pen the abdomen, exposing the intestines, and then restoring them to their = normal place and condition, &c. &c.<<<=20 My view is this technique above may only be obtained by the senior projec= tion ito the mind screen of those who are forced to have that perception by= operation of the senior agancy, the Adept who remained whole and unchanged= throughout. There was no real disgorgement but only a practiced "projected= reality" that was received by the lesser minds individual and together.=20 I haven't read the "Kauthumpa" text yet so I can't give my viewpoint, mor= e later.=20 Regards,=20 John=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" =20 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2009 1:31:38 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacifi= c=20 Subject: Re: Theos-World Ratna-gotra-vibhaga and H. P. Blavatsky=20 Dear friends and John=20 My views are:=20 Thanks John.=20 1.=20 Jamgon Kongtrul (1813-1899) co-founder of the Tibetan Buddhist non-secter= ian synthesis Ri-me Movement.=20 Jamgon Kongtrul are honored as lineage-holders of all the lineages of Tib= etan Buddhism, although he is primarily identified with it in the Kagyu lin= eage.=20 Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamgon_Kongtrul=20 A question:=20 Now was and is the Kongtrul's teachings an expression of the same doktrin= es as those HPB and Master Morya and KH sought to promote?=20 If so, it would perhaps be interesting to contemplate that Kongtrul was l= ineage holder af the Mahamudra (the gelug AnuttaraYoga Tantra) - "The Golde= n Kagyu Garland". And that this lineage was called the White Dynasty by the= author W. Y. Evans-Wentz or called the White Karma branch by others. Jamgo= n Kongtrul is by some rumoured to have used more than one body while being = alive.=20 - - -=20 2.=20 Damodar K. Mavalankar said:=20 "Note. -- We know of only one MAHATMA bearing the name of my venerated GU= RU DEVA who holds a well-known public office in Thibet, under the TESHU LAM= A. For aught we know there may be another bearing the same name; but at any= rate he is not known to us, nor have any of those, we are acquainted with = in Thibet, heard of him. And this personage, my BELOVED MASTER, is, as I ha= ve described Him, resembling the portrait in Mr. Sinnett's possession, and = and does not look old. Perhaps the clairvoyants are confounding the sect of= Khadampas with the Kauthumpas? The former, although not regular Dougpas, a= re great magicians and indulge in practices an Adept of the good Law would = feel disgusted with -- such as the well known phenomenon of ripping open th= e abdomen, exposing the intestines, and then restoring them to their normal= place and condition, &c. &c. The latter, the Kauthumpas, are the disciples= of my MASTER." ( http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/damodar/dam4.htm ). (= Recommended to be read online with italics included etc.)=20 Now we know who the Khadampas was. Then we must also be able to identify = who the Kauthumpas was. Who were they?=20 It seems likely that The Kauthumpas was taught by KH at Shi-Gatze if we f= ollow to HPB's words. A branch of Gelugpa.=20 3.=20 An interesting place to consider in this connection is Shalu Monastery.=20 Shalu Monastery=20 "Buton's activity inevitably attracted a great deal of attention to the m= onastery and brought in other Buddhist interllectuals around Tibet and Indi= a to study in the grounds amounting to some 3000 by 1360. After his death t= he monastery became an important epicentre of esoteric studies and psychic = training for centuries. The avowed purpose of lamas who cultivated paranorm= al abilities were not to become magicians or miracle workers but to attain = philosophical enlightenment, a belief that all earthly phenonoma are a stat= e of the mind. Shalu Temple became known throughout the far east for its de= dication to these philosophies and its enlightenment of the Buddhist faith.= "=20 ...=20 "Shalu Lakhang temple is in the centre of the monastery. On the ground fl= oor, in the Tshomchen, Sakyamuni and his disciples are enshrined. The chape= ls flanking it house the Tanjur and the Kanjur books respectively. Chapels = on the roof floor are typical Chinese blue tiled structures, housing Sakyam= uni, Buton, and Arhats Buddhas. Massive delicate and old murals cover the w= alls of the monastery, mostly depicting stories from the life of the Buddha= . Restoration and preservation are badly needed to protect those arts."=20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E1%B9%A2alu_Monastery=20 It seems to me, that there is a very very strong energy at this place eve= n today with its libraries etc.=20 - - -=20 Samding Monastery=20 And Samding Monastery (The only officially known Tibetan Buddhist monaste= ry run by a female.)=20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samding_Monastery=20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorje_Pakmo=20 - - -=20 4.=20 The Secret Doctrine by H. P. Blavatsky, vol. 1, p. 307-308:=20 "All the thoughts and emotions, all the learning and knowledge, revealed = and acquired, of the early races, found their pictorial expression in alleg= ory and parable. Why? Because >>the spoken word has a potency unknown to, u= nsuspected and disbelieved in<<, by the modern "sages." Because sound and r= hythm are closely related to the four Elements of the Ancients; and because= such or another vibration in the air is sure to awaken corresponding power= s, union with which produces good or bad results, as the case may be. No st= udent was ever allowed to recite historical, religious, or any real events = in so many unmistakable words, lest the powers connected with the event sho= uld be once more attracted. Such events were narrated only during the Initi= ation, and every student had to record them in corresponding symbols, drawn= out of his own mind and examined later by his master, before they were fin= ally accepted. Thus was created in time the Chinese Alphabet, as, before th= at, the hieratic symbols were fixed upon in old Egypt." (Arrows used by M. = Sufilight to emphasize italics).=20 . . . . . . .=20 "The peculiarity of this language was that it could be contained in anoth= er, concealed and not to be perceived, save through the help of special ins= truction; letters and syllabic signs possessing at the same time the powers= or meaning of numbers, of geometrical shapes, pictures, or ideographs and = symbols, the designed scope of which would be determinatively helped out by= parables in the shape of narratives or parts of narratives; while also it = could be set forth separately, independently, and variously, by pictures, i= n stone work, or in earth construction."=20 http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/SDVolume_I.htm=20 And Ratna-gotra-vibhaga might have followed such hidden diamond kind of p= attern.=20 M. Sufilight=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net=20 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 9:51 PM=20 Subject: Re: Theos-World Ratna-gotra-vibhaga and H. P. Blavatsky=20 Morten,=20 In my recent notes I have:=20 The Mahayanottaratantrashastra, ratnagotravibhanga, Tib. theg pa chen po = rgyud bla mai bstan (The Supreme Continuum of The Mahayana) as one of the 5= works of the translation of Asanga's Translation of the Maitreya Texts.=20 Here are the names of the other four:=20 1) Ornament for Clear Realization - Abhisamalankara-Tib. mngon par rtogs = pa'i i rigyan=20 2) Ornament for the Mahayana Sutras - Mahayanasutralankara - Tib. theg pa= chen po i mdo sde i rgyan=20 3) Distinguishing Phenomena and Pure Being (Nature of Phenomena) - Dharma= dharmata Vibhanga - Tib. chos dang chos nyid rnam par byed pa=20 4) Distinguishing the Middle and the Extremes - Madhyanta Vibhanga - Tib = dbus dang mtha rnam par byed pa=20 5) also mentioned or associated with the stream ofthe above:=20 6) Uttaratantra (Subtle Essense)=20 7) Akasa Garbha (Womb of Space) the Space Store Sutra=20 John=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" < global-theosophy@stofanet.dk >=20 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2009 10:07:55 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific= =20 Subject: Theos-World Ratna-gotra-vibhaga and H. P. Blavatsky=20 Dear friends=20 My views are:=20 The following by D. Reigle on H. P. Blavatsky's "The Secret Doctrine" mig= ht be worth considering. I will perhaps be safe to say, that a part of the = Secret Doctrine was based on the below "Ratna-gotra-vibhaga" (i.e. the Secr= et Book of "Maytreya Buddha"!? )=20 David Reigle:=20 >>>=20 Blavatsky in a letter to A. P. Sinnett specifically links The Secret Doct= rine she was then writing to a secret book of Maitreya:=20 I have finished an enormous Introductory Chapter, or Preamble, Prologue, = call it what you will; just to show the reader that the text as it goes, ev= ery Section beginning with a page of translation from the Book of Dzyan and= the Secret Book of "Maytreya Buddha" Champai chhos Nga (in prose, not the = five books in verse known, which are a blind) are no fiction.=20 [The Letters of H. P. Blavatsky to A. P. Sinnett, p. 195.]=20 Given their doctrinal similarity, it is likely that the Ratna-gotra-vibha= ga, or more specifically its secret original, is the book of Maitreya that = Blavatsky refers to here. The known Ratna-gotra-vibhaga, though it may be a= "blind," still apparently represents the same doctrinal standpoint as that= of The Secret Doctrine .=20 <<<=20 http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/reigle01.html=20 A question:=20 Has anyone read "Ratna-gotra-vibhaga" and what translation into english, = if any at all, would be recommend to the students of theosophy?=20 M. Sufilight=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Sep 15 07:21:40 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24023 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2009 14:21:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Sep 2009 14:21:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f200.google.com) (209.85.221.200) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Sep 2009 14:21:36 -0000 X-Received: by qyk38 with SMTP id 38so3189982qyk.27 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 2009 07:20:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.47.3 with SMTP id l3mr2352752qcf.25.1253024421868; Tue, 15 Sep 2009 07:20:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 09:20:21 -0500 Message-ID: To: theos-talk , theos-l X-Originating-IP: 209.85.221.200 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Some good news on Freemasonry X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=lns2Zh-4eUh4iRWXyEAzVe7iz6oEyJhGLtuM3sgUAEV0mmzdvEc X-Yahoo-Profile: ramadoss226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52863 Dan Brown, whose book Da Vinci Code is a very popular one has written a new book The Lost Symbol. A recent comment on this might interest many theosophists. Here are some quotes: +++ Freemasons await Dan Brown novel `The Lost Symbol' + Brown goes out of his way in "The Lost Symbol" to present the lodge as essentially benign and misunderstood. Masons are praised for their religious tolerance and their elaborate rituals are seen as no more unusual than those of formal religions. The plot centers in part on an "unfair" anti-Masonic video that "conspiracy theorists would feed on ... like sharks," Langdon says. . "I have enormous respect for the Masons," Brown told The Associated Press during a recent interview. "In the most fundamental terms, with different cultures killing each other over whose version of God is correct, here is a worldwide organization that essentially says, `We don't care what you call God, or what you think about God, only that you believe in a god and let's all stand together as brothers and look in the same direction.' + Read the full article here: + < http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5idBm00Tj271UVzrWqecKau3rL-_gD9ANN1RG0 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Tue Sep 15 10:34:01 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 19080 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2009 17:33:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Sep 2009 17:33:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mx04.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.14) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Sep 2009 17:33:54 -0000 X-Received: from 56340ee0.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.14.224] helo=khidr) by mx04.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1Mnbpl-00060q-0f for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 15 Sep 2009 19:28:54 +0200 Message-ID: <000f01ca362a$0651c930$e00e3456@khidr> To: References: Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 19:29:05 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.14 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" Subject: Re: Theos-World Some good news on Freemasonry X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=rb5MlnoaGIakqq5ssrBCn4RGdIDxskGgwOf-9O4rrtY6 X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52864 Dear friends My views are: I think the following words will somehow adress the whole matter so that th= e Seekers might understand the Dan Brown ideas a bit better. Rennes-le-Ch=E2teau and the Prieure de Sion B=E9renger Sauniere was a Martinist!? http://www.perillos.com/bs_fm.html HPB / GRS. Mead said: "Martinists. A Society in France, founded by a great mystic called the Marq= uis de St. Martin, a disciple of Martinez Pasqualis. It was first establish= ed at Lyons as a kind of occult Masonic Society, its members believing in t= he possibility of communicating with Planetary Spirits and minor Gods and g= enii of the ultramundane Spheres. Louis Claude de St. Martin, born in 1743,= had commenced life as a brilliant officer in the army, but left it to devo= te himself to study and the belles lettres, ending his career by becoming a= n ardent Theosophist and a disciple of Jacob Boehmen. He tried to bring bac= k Masonry to its primeval character of Occultism and Theurgy, but failed. H= e first made his "Rectified Rite" to consist of ten degrees, but these were= brought down owing to the study of the original Masonic orders-to seven. M= asons complain that he introduced certain ideas and adopted rites "at varia= nce with the arch=E6ological history of Masonry"; but so did Cagliostro and= St Germain before him, as all those who knew well the origin of Free mason= ry." http://theosophicalglossary.net/ also http://www.archive.org/stream/theosophicalglo00meadgoog#page/n217/mode/1up Also: "Paschalis, Martinez. A very learned man, a mystic and occultist. Born abou= t 1700, in Portugal. He travelled extensively, acquiring knowledge wherever= he could in the East, in Turkey, Palestine, Arabia, and Central Asia. He w= as a great Kabbalist. He was the teacher of the Initiator of the Marquis de= St. Martin, who founded the mystical Martinistic School and Lodges. Pascha= lis is reported to have died in St. Domingo about 1779, leaving several exc= ellent works behind him." http://theosophicalglossary.net/ Also http://www.archive.org/stream/theosophicalglo00meadgoog#page/n260/mode/1up Not to mention HPB's Isis Unveiled, vol. 2, p. 381, 384, 388-392 (Although = this volume all in all contains some mistakes). A. "Writing upon this subject, we must hear what Wilcke has to say of these pr= etensions:=20 "The present Knight Templars of Paris will have it, that they are direct de= scendants from the ancient Knights, and endeavor to prove this by documents= , interior regulations, and secret doctrines. Foraisse says the Fraternity = of Freemasons was founded in Egypt, Moses communicating the secret teaching= to the Israelites, Jesus to the Apostles, and thence it found its way to t= he Knight Templars. Such inventions are necessary . . . to the assertion th= at the Parisian Templars are the offspring of the ancient order. All these = asseverations, unsupported by history, were fabricated in the High Chapter = of Clermont (Jesuits), and preserved by the Parisian Templars as a legacy l= eft them by those political revolutionists, the Stuarts and the Jesuits."" B. "So impossible does it become for the originators of the ecclesiastical pse= udo-order of Templars, invented, according to Dupuy, in France, by the adhe= rents of the Stuarts, to avoid being considered a branch of the Order of th= e Jesuits, that we are not surprised to see an anonymous author, rightly su= spected of belonging to the Jesuit Chapter at Clermont, publishing a work i= n 1751, in Brussels, on the lawsuit of the Knights Templar. In this volume,= in sundry mutilated notes, additions, and commentaries, he represents the = innocence of the Templars of the accusation of "heresy," thus robbing them = of the greatest title to respect and admiration that these early free-think= ers and martyrs have won!=20 This last pseudo-order was constituted at Paris, on the 4th of November, 18= 04, by virtue of a forged Constitution, and ever since it has "contaminated= genuine Freemasonry," as the highest Masons themselves tell us. La Charte = de transmission (tabula aurea Larmenii) presents the outward appearance of = such extreme antiquity "that Gregoire confesses that if all the other relic= s of the Parisian treasury of the Order had not silenced his doubts as to t= heir ancient descent, the sight of this charter would at the very first gla= nce have persuaded him."* The first Grand Master of this spurious Order was= a physician of Paris, Dr. Fahre-Palaprat, who assumed the name of Bernard = Raymond." C. Former TS member Charles Sotheran on the High Degrees of Freemasonry: ""It is curious to note too that most of the bodies which work these, such = as the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite, the Rite of Avignon, the Order o= f the Temple, Fessler's Rite, the 'Grand Council of the Emperors of the Eas= t and West -- Sovereign Prince Masons,' etc., etc., are nearly all the offs= pring of the sons of Ignatius Loyola. The Baron Hundt, Chevalier Ramsay, Ts= choudy, Zinnendorf, and numerous others who founded the grades in these rit= es, worked under instructions from the General of the Jesuits. The nest whe= re these high degrees were hatched, and no Masonic rite is free from their = baleful influence more or less, was the Jesuit College of Clermont at Paris= ." D. HPB on the above by Sotheran: "Thus falls to ruins the grand epic poem of Masons, sung by so many mysteri= ous Knights as another revealed gospel. As we see, the Temple of Solomon is= being undermined and brought to the ground by its own chief "Master Masons= ," of this century. But if, following the ingenious exoteric description of= the Bible, there are yet Masons who persist in regarding it as once an act= ual structure, who, of the students of the esoteric doctrine will ever cons= ider this mythic temple otherwise than an allegory, embodying the secret sc= ience? Whether or not there ever was a real temple of that name, we may wel= l leave to archaeologists to decide; but that the detailed description ther= eof in 1 Kings is purely allegorical, no serious scholar, proficient in the= ancient as well as mediaeval jargon of the kabalists and alchemists, can d= oubt. The building of the Temple of Solomon is the symbolical representatio= n of the gradual acquirement of the secret wisdom, or magic; the erection a= nd development of the spiritual from the earthly; the manifestation of the = power and splendor of the spirit in the physical world, through the wisdom = and genius of the builder. The latter, when he has become an adept, is a mi= ghtier king than Solomon himself, the emblem of the sun or Light himself --= the light of the real subjective world, shining in the darkness of the obj= ective universe. This is the "Temple" which can be reared without the sound= of the hammer, or any tool of iron being heard in the house while it is "i= n building."" - - - Yet, we also know - that King Solomon's Temples was something else: Not many theosophists considers the fact that=20 the DOME OF THE ROCK in Jerusalem is Octagonal in shape. Idries Shah, the Grand Sheik of the Sufis and historian of their faith, com= mented on the connection between the Templars and the Sufis:=20 "That the Templars were thinking in terms of the Sufi , and not the Solomon= ic, Temple in Jerusalem, and its building, is strongly suggested by one imp= ortant fact. "Temple" churches which they erected, such as one in London, w= ere modeled upon the Temple as found by the Crusaders, not upon any earlier= building. This Temple was none other than the octagonal Dome of the Rock, = built in the seventh century on a Sufi mathematical design, and restored in= 913. The Sufi legend of the building of the Temple accords with the allege= d Masonic version. As an example we may note that the "Solomon" of the Sufi= Builders is not King Solomon but the Sufi "King" Maaruf Karkhi (died 815),= disciple of David (Daud of Tai, died 781) and hence by extension considere= d the son of David, and referenced cryptically as Solomon - who was the son= of David. The Great murder commemorated by the Sufi Builders is not that o= f the person (Hiram) supposed by the Masonic tradition to have been killed.= The martyr of the Sufi Builders is Mansur el-Hallaj (858-922), juridically= murdered because of the Sufi secret, which he spoke in a manner which coul= d not be understood, and thus was dismembered as a heretic.' -=20 (Idries Shah, "The Sufis" Octagon Press) Mansur el-Hallaj was slain in Bhagdad 922.- - - So HPB's Isis Unveiled is n= ot quite right.But she also called it "trash" later on.Try the below link.M= Y BOOKS [Lucifer, Vol. VIII, No. 45, May, 1891, pp. 241-247]http://www.kati= nkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v13/y1891_024.htm Allright? M. Sufilight ----- Original Message -----=20 From: MKR=20 To: theos-talk ; theos-l=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 4:20 PM Subject: Theos-World Some good news on Freemasonry Dan Brown, whose book Da Vinci Code is a very popular one has written a= new book The Lost Symbol. A recent comment on this might interest many theosophists. Here are some quotes: +++ Freemasons await Dan Brown novel `The Lost Symbol' + Brown goes out of his way in "The Lost Symbol" to present the lodge as essentially benign and misunderstood. Masons are praised for their religi= ous tolerance and their elaborate rituals are seen as no more unusual than th= ose of formal religions. The plot centers in part on an "unfair" anti-Masonic video that "conspiracy theorists would feed on ... like sharks," Langdon says. . "I have enormous respect for the Masons," Brown told The Associated Press during a recent interview. "In the most fundamental terms, with different cultures killing each other over whose version of God is correct, here is= a worldwide organization that essentially says, `We don't care what you cal= l God, or what you think about God, only that you believe in a god and let'= s all stand together as brothers and look in the same direction.' + Read the full article here: + < http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5idBm00Tj271UVzrWqecKau3= rL-_gD9ANN1RG0 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Sep 15 17:45:16 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 82160 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2009 00:45:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Sep 2009 00:45:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO qw-out-2122.google.com) (74.125.92.24) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Sep 2009 00:45:02 -0000 X-Received: by qw-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 5so1208627qwi.15 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 2009 17:45:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.18.140 with SMTP id w12mr2523023qca.77.1253061900926; Tue, 15 Sep 2009 17:45:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 19:45:00 -0500 Message-ID: To: theos-talk X-Originating-IP: 74.125.92.24 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Interesting comments from Mary Anderson X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=xNnKmAkHkJMoOgvuBoYIQhwnl_PReFRNhCCaxJ1kiBXFoZxpXuA X-Yahoo-Profile: ramadoss226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52865 Interesting comments from Mary Anderson Mary Anderson, formerly the International Secretary during the election, recently commented: +++ But at present there is the danger of a more serious dichotomy. Following the recent Presidential elections, which resulted in a large majority of votes in India for the Indian candidate and a large majority of votes in th= e rest of the world for the American candidate, many tirades of hate have appeared on the internet. The idea of two Theosophical Societies - East and West - has even been broached. +++ I feel that the conclusion and reasoning behind the above observation is very faulty. Some may be day dreaming of two societies. This is not going to happen. Even if such a move is attempted, it is bound to end where similar attempts ended in the past. Let us look at what has been going on since the start of the election nomination. For an ordinary member, the events seem to point to a smart very well coordinated and planned effort (we are yet to know the role played by Mary behind the scenes) which did not pan out per expectations due to two key factors. First, the critical role played by Internet. Second, the untrue reason put forward to defeat the sitting president. This is the first election in which Independent Internet played a critical role. In the past, the TS leaders controlled the flow of information (and misinformation) to membership due to their control of the medium of communication. With Internet forums such as theos-talk, which is outside th= e control of any organization or leader, members around the world were provided instant information. This led to a lot of discussion among members from around the world. This provided bright light to shine on the information (and misinformation) fed to the members to defeat sitting president. Such bright light brought out the truth behind information put out to sway the members=E2=80=99 votes and defeat sitting President. The election propaganda started on a wrong foot. To defeat Radha Burnier, there was an orchestrated allegation that she was sick, both mentally and physically and this was the lay men=E2=80=99s and women=E2=80=99s opinion a= nd was shot down by three well known physicians from two continents and one was a long-time theosophist and section leader. Members who saw thru this did not buy the allegation and understood what was going on. It is a very well known fact that Indian Section always was the largest in the world even in the days of Annie Besant. She, as a veteran leader, knew this fact and advised George Arundale to get to know the Indian Section members and win their hearts which was critical for anyone who leads TS. This fact is true today too. The Indian Section has been progressively growing while the membership outside India is either declining or not growing. In addition, the retention rate outside India is very poor. The membership trend outside India is in such a poor state that none of the leaders from the West want to discuss the hot potato. Past elections such as in the case of John Coats has proven that Indian membership is open minded and very fair in their support of the candidates with no bias. We should note that Coats defeated two well known candidates from India, Rukmini Arundale and Radha Burnier with support from Indian membership. Even looking beyond TS, Indian masses have demonstrated to the world of it= s open minded approach as compared to countries outside India. India had a very powerful woman Prime Minister for a long time, has a woman President now, had a Moslem President for a predominantly Hindu country and also had = a president from the untouchable class. Western countries, including United States cannot claim such open mindedness. Neither US nor the TS in America yet had a Hispanic president for a country with a sizable growing Hispanic population. It is very telling about the TS leadership outside India. After failing to defeat the sitting President, unfounded allegations were made from the West about the handling of elections in India and when challenged by the Indian Section, there was no verifiable evidence to prove the allegations. Matters would have ended there, but for the shock and dismay members met with. A very secret move was made by a quartet of general council members from the West, which included the defeated candidate, to disenfranchise members around the world and seize control of the appointment of the President and make the president a puppet. Timely discovery of the ultra secret move and world-wide Internet dissemination shocked the members world-wide. Secret attempt to seize the power to appoint the President spoke for itself and many members could not even believe their leaders will even think of such a self-serving attempt. This resulted in many members to have a very low level of trust in their leaders. No leader can lead without a very high level of trust. Compared to other dissent ions during last century, we do not have leaders with charisma and a high level of trust. Also with the help of Internet, members are now better informed of the political landscape and members are intelligent enough to see what has happened and come to their own conclusions. Any attempt to try to form two Societies - East and West is bound to fall flat on its face and the reputations of many well known members is likely t= o be irreparably damaged. MKR There is no religion higher than Truth [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From bimal_mohanty@yahoo.com Tue Sep 15 17:47:38 2009 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 89322 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2009 00:47:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Sep 2009 00:47:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5-vm6.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com) (67.195.135.101) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Sep 2009 00:47:36 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoogroups.com; s=lima; t=1253061992; bh=dhJPrsIKKtTEYGHu3RKn1t9IMrJwTmfSKQ6Def4BgNI=; h=Received:Received:Received:X-Sender:X-Apparently-To:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:Date:To:Message-ID:User-Agent:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-Originating-IP:X-eGroups-Msg-Info:X-Yahoo-Post-IP:From:Subject:X-Yahoo-Group-Post:X-Yahoo-Profile:X-YGroups-SubInfo:Sender:X-eGroups-Approved-By:X-eGroups-Auth; b=dxZsIdLhvjQAiGa4U9eqTh8iI3DuUzfJTklmNSly3MIeMsEVgAxkWYZdyb2pWhUyxBnZojLIxIUIb1BiYcZB4Cw5jIslcsJhe2/tn/ovXIxGuWLyEpOSe9dBaM/Df6rJ Received: from [67.195.134.48] by n5.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Sep 2009 00:46:32 -0000 Received: from [69.147.65.150] by t1.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Sep 2009 00:46:32 -0000 Received: from [98.137.34.184] by t7.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Sep 2009 00:46:32 -0000 X-Sender: bimal_mohanty@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 68747 invoked from network); 15 Sep 2009 20:19:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Sep 2009 20:19:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n44d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.158) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Sep 2009 20:19:09 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.149] by n44.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Sep 2009 20:18:43 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.73] by t9.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Sep 2009 20:18:43 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 20:18:41 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-Originating-IP: 66.163.169.158 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 203.109.126.72 From: "bimal_mohanty" Subject: THE YOGA as YAJNA X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=182583159; y=31eguC6h-FW7-IST4Yevok1ewSOEkVDAMKMlbukTsv1NtbkE-UEs-A X-Yahoo-Profile: bimal_mohanty X-YGroups-SubInfo: t=0;f=274;g=NH5Hycyzb-g0bgdbxseW0edCkX28LNYhKkQwP4mpY0rvz--fwxxmnsHyEY-qs0I-HC8; X-eGroups-Approved-By: ramadoss226 via web; 16 Sep 2009 00:46:31 -0000 X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52866 THE YOGA as YAJNA GREETINGS AND BEST WISHES IN YOUR SPIRITUAL JOURNEY. THE LATEST VOLUME OF THE SPIRITUAL WEB SITE www.ahwan.org (or www.ahwan.com= ) : VOLUME 103, September 2009 ISSUE, has been published and uplinked with= the article "YOGA as YAJNA" - If you visit the site, and have any observations to make, I shall be grat= eful. In this issue we have also interesting questions from readers dealing= with "ChitA markings", "Parental failure", "The intellectually inferiors",= "Development of Soul", "How is Brahman within us?" etc. You can also brows= e the previous articles by clicking on the ikon `articles'. Please share it= with your friends and dear ones. God bless you- Sri Bimal Mohanty. (bima= l_mohanty@vsnl.com) PS =96 To continue spreading the benefit of AHWAN to all, we need your assi= stance if you please. Click on `special information' on the homepage of www= .ahwan.org. If you do not wish to receive this information about future issues, please = e-mail accordingly - Thank you. If you wish someone to receive this information as compliments from you ple= ase indicate his/her e-mail address.=20 ____________________ You can usher a qualitative change in your life, the spiritual way- the eff= ective way. Visit the website www.ahwan.org. or www.ahwan.com. regularly. Share it with your friends and dear ones in any manner convenien= t- through discussing, speaking, writing, inter-netting. From edare@bellsouth.net Wed Sep 16 00:39:05 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: edare@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 82953 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2009 07:38:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Sep 2009 07:38:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n43d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.157) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Sep 2009 07:38:59 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.171] by n43.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Sep 2009 07:38:56 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.34] by t13.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Sep 2009 07:38:56 -0000 Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 07:38:55 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <424B623C-2A0F-47AA-90D9-F1EAFCDD913B@aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.169.157 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 74.234.40.2 From: "edareo" Subject: Theos-World Re: Zero Point - Leon X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=404984057; y=fXNTv0_X7dPGCBKiRJAfGgP11jLo2-evrNtc2ZtTdY6x-kzNJAYg X-Yahoo-Profile: edareo X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52867 Leon,=20 Anything in Haramein new or different from ABC?=20 He makes a fun presentation. Ed --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Leon Maurer wrote: > > Mark, >=20 > I'm not so sure that your psychologically oriented labeling of=20=20 > Harameins diagrams -- ostensibly picturing the "black-white whole"=20=20 > and its gravitational and electrodynamic energy's outward radiation=20=20 > and inward spiraling (after a supernova collapse) -- makes very much=20=20 > sense... >=20 > Apparently, this primal beginning of a galaxy pertains only to the=20=20 > eighth lowest order material aspect of the physical plane of=20=20 > cosmogenesis -- and doesn't necessarily represent the more=20=20 > symmetrical fractal involution of the initial higher order physical=20=20 > or highest order cosmic astral, mental, and spiritual planes that=20=20 > formed before the symmetry breaking on this lowest order physical/=20 > material plane -- when particles, atoms, molecules and their=20=20 > ponderable material structures first appear. >=20 > Human identity and observer consciousness actually exists at the=20=20 > origin of the highest order spiritual plane or globe, and is only=20=20 > indirectly linked to the lowest order physical plane that is the=20=20 > subject of scientific study or proofs such as Haramein's mathematics=20=20 > and their associated diagrams. >=20 > So, I doubt if any of those physical energy fields pictured in those=20=20 > diagrams, actually pertain to any human psychology or to the=20=20 > analogous higher order fields surrounding the zero-(laya) point of=20=20 > individual human consciousness... Which is necessarily, based solely=20=20 > on symmetric fields of consciousness radiating from that point --=20=20 > whose only asymmetries are in the modulated holographic wave=20=20 > interference patterned information they carry and transmit from one=20=20 > fractal harmonic field to another, by means of phase conjugate=20=20 > adaptive resonance. This, incidentally, along with all cosmic=20=20 > structural information carried by every absolute zero-point's primal=20=20 > spin momentum (Akasha field) is a technical requirement of a=20=20 > holographic universe -- that is not explained or described by=20=20 > Haramein's physical/material energy flow diagrams. The analogy and=20=20 > correspondence of such a cosmic hologram can be seen in every DNA=20=20 > molecule located in each cell of every sentient being. >=20 > A view of these initial higher order symmetric fields of=20=20 > consciousness and their descent into matter, can be more accurately=20=20 > visualized intuitively (in the imagination) by meditating on and=20=20 > extrapolating from the cross sectional 2D and 3D diagrams of=20=20 > cosmogenesis illustrated on my blog site below -- which are much=20=20 > closer to the original metaphysical "rounds" explained by HPB in the=20=20 > Secret Doctrine, as well as exactly following the numerological=20=20 > formulas in the Book of Dzyan. >=20 > In my view, I would assume that Leadbeater's and Besant's similar,=20=20 > but misinterpreted descriptions of the primal atom's structure at the = =20 > physical/material laya point, were due to their inability to=20=20 > psychically penetrate deeper than the lowest order material plane at=20=20 > the nether side of the spiral vortical wormhole leading to the next=20=20 > higher order astral plane. Note that "laya points" at each level of=20=20 > fractal involution on any cosmic plane have different finite mass-=20 > energy's that are each only a tiny part of the infinite potential=20=20 > energy of the "singularity" at their primal absolute zero-point=20=20 > centers in unconditioned absolute SPACE. >=20 > For a more accurate view of the spinning spiral vortex, fractal=20=20 > involved, twin helix harmonic fields within each fundamental physical = =20 > photon particle's spherical standing wave, see the cross section=20=20 > diagram of an oncoming light ray at: > http://leonmaurer.info/ABCimages/PhotonField.gif >=20 > Best wishes, > Leon Maurer > http://dzyanmaster.wordpress.com/ >=20 > On Sep 8, 2009, at 9/8/096:07 PM, Mark Kusek wrote: >=20 > > Leon, > > > > Thanks for listing these links. They are very helpful. > > > > In fact, I've co-opted this one that I found on the "Resonance=20=20 > > Project" > > site and reworked it slightly to use it to illustrate what I've been > > talking about in some of my recent posts. > > > > I changed some labels to my references, but I think the form aptly > > applies to what we've been talking about and the points I've been=20=20 > > trying > > to express. > > > > I would love to get your read (and anyone else's) on these > > correspondances from the psychological perspective. > > > > http://projects.decorativeimaging.net/clients/yantra/Psychograms/=20 > > Torus.jpg > > > > http://projects.decorativeimaging.net/clients/yantra/Psychograms/=20 > > Torus2.jpg > > > > User name: yantra > > Password: 1234 > > > > Best, > > > > -- M > > > > > > Leon wrote: > > > > << For a closer view of this concept check out my new blog, "How It = =20 > > All > > Began" at: > > http://dzyanmaster.wordpress.com/ > > and compare it with the theories of Haramein at his web site and in > > his video lectures at: > > http://www.theresonanceproject.org/ > www.theresonanceproject.org/> > > or http://tinyurl.com/haramein >> > > > > > > Mark Kusek > > Without Walls: An Internet Art Space > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >=20 >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > From edare@bellsouth.net Wed Sep 16 00:46:12 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: edare@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 3847 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2009 07:46:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Sep 2009 07:46:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.156) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Sep 2009 07:46:09 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.171] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Sep 2009 07:45:48 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.33] by t13.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Sep 2009 07:45:48 -0000 Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 07:45:46 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.168.156 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 74.234.40.2 From: "edareo" Subject: Theos-World Re: Zero Point - Leon X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=404984057; y=AWUrEF6iiZTseQ5KgwBkzD8Sw8aeYLFCuDoLoYW8ahyVsSBMpI6v X-Yahoo-Profile: edareo X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52868 --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "edareo" wrote: > > Leon,=20 >=20 > Anything in Haramein new or different from ABC?=20 >=20 > He makes a fun presentation. >=20 > Ed PS I tried posting the videos on Mindbrain (8/31/09) but it wasn't accepte= d. From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Wed Sep 16 09:24:01 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 19618 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2009 16:23:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Sep 2009 16:23:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mx01.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.11) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Sep 2009 16:23:56 -0000 X-Received: from 56340ee0.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.14.224] helo=khidr) by mx01.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1MnxIR-0004Cn-0a for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:23:56 +0200 Message-ID: <001201ca36ea$1eaf90f0$e00e3456@khidr> To: References: Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:24:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.11 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" Subject: Re: Theos-World Interesting comments from Mary Anderson X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=wNJKR-033Vb75MLLFTZn97bW68KvyUbPKEWzYDA8dqZN X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52869 Dear friends My views are: A quote from the below e-mail: "many tirades of hate have appeared on the internet. " My views: I wonder if this actually is the truth, or whether most of the "tirades" in= stead are expressions on seeking to help various TS leaders towards the vie= w, that something could be improved within the TS leadership, administrativ= ely, as well as on how TS are prepared to promulgate the theosophical teach= ings, if at all? When a dog comes along and expresses sounds, which clearly shows that it ne= eds food, I think it would be a impolite not to offer it something to eat, = if one have an abundance of food available. That is unless it needs somethi= ng else first.=20 One of my own problems, as an outsider so to speak, is that quite a number = of TS websites, are today not clearly enough expressing that each lodge or = center has its own policies and preferences on how to promulgate theosophy = or on how it seek to fullfill the three aims of The Theosophical Society. A= nd there is as I view it, today, no longer, a clear and wellformulated line= of demarcation on what is accepted and what not within a lodge. If this co= uld be expressed much more clearly, a lot of unfortunate misunderstadnings = might be avoided. But I might have overlooked something there. It might be well to remember, that The Theosophical Society after all still= is an International organisation. Well, is it not?=20 It would be very Important: If the leadership in the TS much more clearly w= ould reject autority roles (or "popery"), and express the limits which the = TS operates through, it could be quite helpful to Seekers inside the TS as = well as non-members still standing out side it. I am saying this taking the= two below excerpts into account. Now read the following two excerpts very carefully, tell me if TS still is = operating in accordance with the original lines? Can it do so without claiming to be in contact with the Masters of Himalaya= or similar elsewhere? 1. H. P. Blavatsky said in 1888: "The multiplication of local centres should be a foremost consideration in = your minds, and each man should strive to be a centre of work in himself. W= hen his inner development has reached a certain point, he will naturally dr= aw those with whom he is in contact under the same influence; a nucleus wil= l be formed, round which other people will gather, forming a centre from wh= ich information and spiritual influence radiate, and towards which higher i= nfluences are directed. But let no man set up a popery instead of Theosophy, as this would be suici= dal and has ever ended most fatally. We are all fellow-students, more or le= ss advanced; but no one belonging to the Theosophical Society ought to coun= t himself as more than, at best, a pupil-teacher=E2=80=94one who has no rig= ht to dogmatize.=20 Since the Society was founded, a distinct change has come over the spirit o= f the age. Those who gave us commission to found the Society foresaw this, = now rapidly growing, wave of transcendental influence following that other = wave of mere phenomenalism. Even the journals of Spiritualism are gradually= eliminating the phenomena and wonders, to replace them with philosophy. Th= e Theosophical Society led the van of this movement; but, although Theosoph= ical ideas have entered into every development or form which awakening spir= ituality has assumed, yet Theosophy pure and simple has still a severe batt= le to fight for recognition. The days of old are gone to return no more, an= d many are the Theosophists who, taught by bitter experience, have pledged = themselves to make of the Society a =E2=80=9Cmiracle club=E2=80=9D no longe= r. The faint-hearted have asked in all ages for signs and wonders, and when= these failed to be granted, they refused to believe. Such are not those wh= o will ever comprehend Theosophy pure and simple. But there are others amon= g us who realize intuitionally that the recognition of pure Theosophy=E2=80= =94the philosophy of the rational explanation of things and not the tenets= =E2=80=94is of the most vital importance in the Society, inasmuch as it alo= ne can furnish the beacon-light needed to guide humanity on its true path."= (HPB's Collected Writings, vol. 9, p. 242) http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v9/y1888_035.htm 2. Mahatma Letter from KH to A. P. Sinnett, 1882: "The Parent S. has never interfered in the slightest degree with the Britis= h T.S., nor indeed with any other Branch, whether religious or philosophica= l. Having formed, or caused to be formed a new branch, the Parent S. charte= rs it (which it cannot now do without our Sanction and signatures), and the= n usually retires behind the scenes, as you would say. Its further connecti= on with the subject branches is limited to receiving quarterly accounts of = their doings and lists of the new Fellows, ratifying expulsions -- only whe= n specially called upon as an arbitrator to interfere on account of the Fou= nders' direct connection with us -- etc., etc.; it never meddles otherwise = in their affairs except when appealed to as a sort of appelate court. And t= he latter depending on you, what is there to prevent your Society from rema= ining virtually independent? We are, even more generous than you British ar= e to us. We will not force upon, nor even ask you to sanction a Hindu "Resi= dent" in your Society, to watch the interests of the Parent Paramount Power= when we have once declared you independent; but will implicitly trust to y= our loyalty and word of honour. But if you now so dislike the idea of a pur= ely nominal executive supervision by Col. Olcott -- an American of your own= race -- you would surely rebel against dictation from a Hindu, whose habit= s and methods are those of his own people, and whose race, despite your nat= ural benevolence, you have not yet learnt to tolerate, let alone to love or= respect." http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-4.htm These were just som views of mine. I am not throwing any tirade here, I am = simply out of compassion seeking to be helpful. Allright? M. Sufilight ----- Original Message -----=20 From: MKR=20 To: theos-talk=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 2:45 AM Subject: Theos-World Interesting comments from Mary Anderson Interesting comments from Mary Anderson Mary Anderson, formerly the International Secretary during the election, recently commented: +++ But at present there is the danger of a more serious dichotomy. Following the recent Presidential elections, which resulted in a large majority of votes in India for the Indian candidate and a large majority of votes in = the rest of the world for the American candidate, many tirades of hate have appeared on the internet. The idea of two Theosophical Societies - East a= nd West - has even been broached. +++ I feel that the conclusion and reasoning behind the above observation is very faulty. Some may be day dreaming of two societies. This is not going to happen. Even if such a move is attempted, it is bound to end where similar attempts ended in the past. Let us look at what has been going on since the start of the election nomination. For an ordinary member, the events seem to point to a smart very well coordinated and planned effort (we are yet to know the role played by Mar= y behind the scenes) which did not pan out per expectations due to two key factors. First, the critical role played by Internet. Second, the untrue reason put forward to defeat the sitting president. This is the first election in which Independent Internet played a critica= l role. In the past, the TS leaders controlled the flow of information (and misinformation) to membership due to their control of the medium of communication. With Internet forums such as theos-talk, which is outside = the control of any organization or leader, members around the world were provided instant information. This led to a lot of discussion among membe= rs from around the world. This provided bright light to shine on the information (and misinformation) fed to the members to defeat sitting president. Such bright light brought out the truth behind information put out to sway the members=E2=80=99 votes and defeat sitting President. The election propaganda started on a wrong foot. To defeat Radha Burnier, there was an orchestrated allegation that she was sick, both mentally and physically and this was the lay men=E2=80=99s and women=E2=80=99s opinion= and was shot down by three well known physicians from two continents and one was a long-tim= e theosophist and section leader. Members who saw thru this did not buy the allegation and understood what was going on. It is a very well known fact that Indian Section always was the largest i= n the world even in the days of Annie Besant. She, as a veteran leader, kne= w this fact and advised George Arundale to get to know the Indian Section members and win their hearts which was critical for anyone who leads TS. This fact is true today too. The Indian Section has been progressively growing while the membership outside India is either declining or not growing. In addition, the retention rate outside India is very poor. The membership trend outside India is in such a poor state that none of the leaders from the West want to discuss the hot potato. Past elections such as in the case of John Coats has proven that Indian membership is open minded and very fair in their support of the candidate= s with no bias. We should note that Coats defeated two well known candidate= s from India, Rukmini Arundale and Radha Burnier with support from Indian membership. Even looking beyond TS, Indian masses have demonstrated to the world of i= ts open minded approach as compared to countries outside India. India had a very powerful woman Prime Minister for a long time, has a woman President now, had a Moslem President for a predominantly Hindu country and also ha= d a president from the untouchable class. Western countries, including United States cannot claim such open mindedness. Neither US nor the TS in Americ= a yet had a Hispanic president for a country with a sizable growing Hispani= c population. It is very telling about the TS leadership outside India. After failing t= o defeat the sitting President, unfounded allegations were made from the We= st about the handling of elections in India and when challenged by the India= n Section, there was no verifiable evidence to prove the allegations. Matters would have ended there, but for the shock and dismay members met with. A very secret move was made by a quartet of general council members from the West, which included the defeated candidate, to disenfranchise members around the world and seize control of the appointment of the President and make the president a puppet. Timely discovery of the ultra secret move and world-wide Internet dissemination shocked the members world-wide. Secret attempt to seize the power to appoint the President spoke for itself and many members could no= t even believe their leaders will even think of such a self-serving attempt= . This resulted in many members to have a very low level of trust in their leaders. No leader can lead without a very high level of trust. Compared to other dissent ions during last century, we do not have leader= s with charisma and a high level of trust. Also with the help of Internet, members are now better informed of the political landscape and members ar= e intelligent enough to see what has happened and come to their own conclusions. Any attempt to try to form two Societies - East and West is bound to fall flat on its face and the reputations of many well known members is likely= to be irreparably damaged. MKR There is no religion higher than Truth [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From professorjaya@yahoo.com Wed Sep 16 15:52:40 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: professorjaya@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 26291 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2009 22:52:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Sep 2009 22:52:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web65509.mail.ac4.yahoo.com) (76.13.9.53) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Sep 2009 22:52:37 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 84315 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Sep 2009 22:51:21 -0000 Message-ID: <976105.82897.qm@web65509.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: _xxO.IQVM1m.cEq37c0qnzFB7lUG_ymB1TNzlEBxyP1OVznZhRp7Hf8ZpmGFF0Lqxq2w33hen11KEGJv1h.yO61QlF83qabzK9ab6M_f8rjPFVVFJHTHq3_1.MZ31KFgAjHeCQF8xR0vyAdvyF0hOh1IFYXGSnBnt73Ra_49LtMY72Yf2zFjOA2faRof8UdgdmbadvgUAsY4s3TYJe5W7ijF2pQ5Vg.PhpCc1G_0QSZKkBsWVi6Hwfr3.4sJSde4nNzS5ZX08Vqnp5PrOfZi7GZBAlOFNaZb45uSsg0z9v7ow6gsQ7BBLIykjWYgyfPfpGL8I2Oe7iNuH1CwuqkFNUeU7LwAAHHPrGEZlz1BOT9QRG3DThverg-- X-Received: from [198.188.96.4] by web65509.mail.ac4.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:51:20 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/6.1.2 YahooMailWebService/0.7.347.2 Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:51:20 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 76.13.9.53 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Jayananda Hiranandani Subject: Re: Theos-World Interesting comments from Mary Anderson X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=136023466; y=9ytpY4SaOhwsf2iuo1JBcVchPfGOpBGrB4UNF1z23vmmtzcTz3Z-kw X-Yahoo-Profile: professorjaya Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52870 I wish to supplement what MKR has said. =C2=A0 Dr. Besant and Dr. Arundale=C2=A0=C2=A0not only mingled with the people in = India - both inside and outside the T.S. - but were lovers of India. Both o= f them. with Mr. B. P. Wadia were interned, by the then British rulers in O= otacamund (now known as Udhagamandalam). Besides their political work, they= did remarkable educational and social work, and carried the TS to the publ= ic. It will take many pages to describe their monumental work. =C2=A0 Dr. Arundale worked vigorously against the partition of India through his p= eriodical "Conscience". If leaders of those days and Britain had not patiti= oned India, there would have been more stability in the region. Anyway, I d= o not want to get into a political debate. =C2=A0 Mr. Coats mixed a lot with people. In the 1964, he brought a chartered plan= e of people from Europe to attend Convention in Adyar. Even in Dr. Arundale= 's presidency he had photographs from the Conventions and showed one to my = parents in which they were there. =C2=A0 Jayananda H. Hiranandani --- On Tue, 9/15/09, MKR wrote: From: MKR Subject: Theos-World Interesting comments from Mary Anderson To: "theos-talk" Date: Tuesday, September 15, 2009, 5:45 PM =C2=A0=20 Interesting comments from Mary Anderson Mary Anderson, formerly the International Secretary during the election, recently commented: +++ But at present there is the danger of a more serious dichotomy. Following the recent Presidential elections, which resulted in a large majority of votes in India for the Indian candidate and a large majority of votes in th= e rest of the world for the American candidate, many tirades of hate have appeared on the internet. The idea of two Theosophical Societies - East and West - has even been broached. +++ I feel that the conclusion and reasoning behind the above observation is very faulty. Some may be day dreaming of two societies. This is not going to happen. Even if such a move is attempted, it is bound to end where similar attempts ended in the past. Let us look at what has been going on since the start of the election nomination. For an ordinary member, the events seem to point to a smart very well coordinated and planned effort (we are yet to know the role played by Mary behind the scenes) which did not pan out per expectations due to two key factors. First, the critical role played by Internet. Second, the untrue reason put forward to defeat the sitting president. This is the first election in which Independent Internet played a critical role. In the past, the TS leaders controlled the flow of information (and misinformation) to membership due to their control of the medium of communication. With Internet forums such as theos-talk, which is outside th= e control of any organization or leader, members around the world were provided instant information. This led to a lot of discussion among members from around the world. This provided bright light to shine on the information (and misinformation) fed to the members to defeat sitting president. Such bright light brought out the truth behind information put out to sway the members=E2=80=99 votes and defeat sitting President. The election propaganda started on a wrong foot. To defeat Radha Burnier, there was an orchestrated allegation that she was sick, both mentally and physically and this was the lay men=E2=80=99s and women=E2=80=99s opinion a= nd was shot down by three well known physicians from two continents and one was a long-time theosophist and section leader. Members who saw thru this did not buy the allegation and understood what was going on. It is a very well known fact that Indian Section always was the largest in the world even in the days of Annie Besant. She, as a veteran leader, knew this fact and advised George Arundale to get to know the Indian Section members and win their hearts which was critical for anyone who leads TS. This fact is true today too. The Indian Section has been progressively growing while the membership outside India is either declining or not growing. In addition, the retention rate outside India is very poor. The membership trend outside India is in such a poor state that none of the leaders from the West want to discuss the hot potato. Past elections such as in the case of John Coats has proven that Indian membership is open minded and very fair in their support of the candidates with no bias. We should note that Coats defeated two well known candidates from India, Rukmini Arundale and Radha Burnier with support from Indian membership. Even looking beyond TS, Indian masses have demonstrated to the world of its open minded approach as compared to countries outside India. India had a very powerful woman Prime Minister for a long time, has a woman President now, had a Moslem President for a predominantly Hindu country and also had = a president from the untouchable class. Western countries, including United States cannot claim such open mindedness. Neither US nor the TS in America yet had a Hispanic president for a country with a sizable growing Hispanic population. It is very telling about the TS leadership outside India. After failing to defeat the sitting President, unfounded allegations were made from the West about the handling of elections in India and when challenged by the Indian Section, there was no verifiable evidence to prove the allegations. Matters would have ended there, but for the shock and dismay members met with. A very secret move was made by a quartet of general council members from the West, which included the defeated candidate, to disenfranchise members around the world and seize control of the appointment of the President and make the president a puppet. Timely discovery of the ultra secret move and world-wide Internet dissemination shocked the members world-wide. Secret attempt to seize the power to appoint the President spoke for itself and many members could not even believe their leaders will even think of such a self-serving attempt. This resulted in many members to have a very low level of trust in their leaders. No leader can lead without a very high level of trust. Compared to other dissent ions during last century, we do not have leaders with charisma and a high level of trust. Also with the help of Internet, members are now better informed of the political landscape and members are intelligent enough to see what has happened and come to their own conclusions. Any attempt to try to form two Societies - East and West is bound to fall flat on its face and the reputations of many well known members is likely t= o be irreparably damaged. MKR There is no religion higher than Truth [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20=20=20=20=20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Wed Sep 16 21:21:30 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 58703 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2009 04:21:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Sep 2009 04:21:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f201.google.com) (209.85.221.201) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Sep 2009 04:21:25 -0000 X-Received: by qyk39 with SMTP id 39so4766455qyk.31 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:20:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.45.19 with SMTP id c19mr2963118qcf.0.1253161224192; Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:20:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <976105.82897.qm@web65509.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <976105.82897.qm@web65509.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 23:20:24 -0500 Message-ID: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 209.85.221.201 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Interesting comments from Mary Anderson X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=x1uGk6aRai-TieEncjOJoxlLdNMNU2o-HK9xP09qAtgowhqrJFk X-Yahoo-Profile: ramadoss226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52871 Let me add a few lines to Jayananda=E2=80=99s comment. John Coats traveled all the lodges in India prior to his running for the office. John Coats visited Bangalore Lodge, India unannounced and I happene= d to live there at that time. Most did not know much about him. He was traveling on his own and not in any official capacity. He even had a hard time finding the lodge location. He did not boast about his past accomplishments. He traveled casually dressed, not in a three piece suit trying to impress the members. He gave a talk presenting theosophy in very simple terms that everyone could understand. So members connected with him. Rukmini Arundale and Radha Burnier also ran for the office along with him. Members all over the world knew Rukmini due to her extensive travels in the past. Much of the travel also took place when her husband George Arundale was the President who succeeded Annie Besant. Due to her involvement in Art= s and Animal Welfare in India, she was very well known to the members in India. Radha Burnier was also very well known in India due to her travels around the country. She was the General Secretary of Indian Section for several years. She was also the daughter of N Sri Ram, who succeeded C Jinarajadasa as President, and Sri Ram was very well known to Indian members. John Coats was elected as the President to succeed Sri Ram. He won the election with a good amount of support from Indian Section. He did not, directly or indirectly try to exploit his being a Scotsman thus trying to get the support of the European members. He also did not try to exploit his connections with General Council members in his attempt to win the election nor did he try any tricks on members in his quest for the office. Even in political elections in India, people have a long track record of supporting candidates without any bias towards national origin, religion, caste, creed, race, sex or colour. Very few countries in the world can clai= m such a track record. We should note that this unbiased track record is reflected in the election of the Theosophical Presidents as well. MKR On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 5:51 PM, Jayananda Hiranandani < professorjaya@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > I wish to supplement what MKR has said. > > Dr. Besant and Dr. Arundale not only mingled with the people in India - > both inside and outside the T.S. - but were lovers of India. Both of them= . > with Mr. B. P. Wadia were interned, by the then British rulers in Ootacam= und > (now known as Udhagamandalam). Besides their political work, they did > remarkable educational and social work, and carried the TS to the public.= It > will take many pages to describe their monumental work. > > Dr. Arundale worked vigorously against the partition of India through his > periodical "Conscience". If leaders of those days and Britain had not > patitioned India, there would have been more stability in the region. > Anyway, I do not want to get into a political debate. > > Mr. Coats mixed a lot with people. In the 1964, he brought a chartered > plane of people from Europe to attend Convention in Adyar. Even in Dr. > Arundale's presidency he had photographs from the Conventions and showed = one > to my parents in which they were there. > > Jayananda H. Hiranandani > > --- On Tue, 9/15/09, MKR > wrote: > > From: MKR > > Subject: Theos-World Interesting comments from Mary Anderson > To: "theos-talk" > > > Date: Tuesday, September 15, 2009, 5:45 PM > > > > > Interesting comments from Mary Anderson > > Mary Anderson, formerly the International Secretary during the election, > recently commented: > +++ > But at present there is the danger of a more serious dichotomy. Following > the recent Presidential elections, which resulted in a large majority of > votes in India for the Indian candidate and a large majority of votes in > the > rest of the world for the American candidate, many tirades of hate have > appeared on the internet. The idea of two Theosophical Societies - East a= nd > West - has even been broached. > +++ > > I feel that the conclusion and reasoning behind the above observation is > very faulty. Some may be day dreaming of two societies. This is not going > to happen. Even if such a move is attempted, it is bound to end where > similar attempts ended in the past. > > Let us look at what has been going on since the start of the election > nomination. > > For an ordinary member, the events seem to point to a smart very well > coordinated and planned effort (we are yet to know the role played by Mar= y > behind the scenes) which did not pan out per expectations due to two key > factors. First, the critical role played by Internet. Second, the untrue > reason put forward to defeat the sitting president. > > This is the first election in which Independent Internet played a critica= l > role. In the past, the TS leaders controlled the flow of information (and > misinformation) to membership due to their control of the medium of > communication. With Internet forums such as theos-talk, which is outside > the > control of any organization or leader, members around the world were > provided instant information. This led to a lot of discussion among membe= rs > from around the world. This provided bright light to shine on the > information (and misinformation) fed to the members to defeat sitting > president. Such bright light brought out the truth behind information put > out to sway the members=E2=80=99 votes and defeat sitting President. > > The election propaganda started on a wrong foot. To defeat Radha Burnier, > there was an orchestrated allegation that she was sick, both mentally and > physically and this was the lay men=E2=80=99s and women=E2=80=99s opinion= and was shot down > by three well known physicians from two continents and one was a long-tim= e > theosophist and section leader. Members who saw thru this did not buy the > allegation and understood what was going on. > > It is a very well known fact that Indian Section always was the largest i= n > the world even in the days of Annie Besant. She, as a veteran leader, kne= w > this fact and advised George Arundale to get to know the Indian Section > members and win their hearts which was critical for anyone who leads TS. > > This fact is true today too. The Indian Section has been progressively > growing while the membership outside India is either declining or not > growing. In addition, the retention rate outside India is very poor. The > membership trend outside India is in such a poor state that none of the > leaders from the West want to discuss the hot potato. > > Past elections such as in the case of John Coats has proven that Indian > membership is open minded and very fair in their support of the candidate= s > with no bias. We should note that Coats defeated two well known candidate= s > from India, Rukmini Arundale and Radha Burnier with support from Indian > membership. > > Even looking beyond TS, Indian masses have demonstrated to the world of i= ts > open minded approach as compared to countries outside India. India had a > very powerful woman Prime Minister for a long time, has a woman President > now, had a Moslem President for a predominantly Hindu country and also ha= d > a > president from the untouchable class. Western countries, including United > States cannot claim such open mindedness. Neither US nor the TS in Americ= a > yet had a Hispanic president for a country with a sizable growing Hispani= c > population. > > It is very telling about the TS leadership outside India. After failing t= o > defeat the sitting President, unfounded allegations were made from the We= st > about the handling of elections in India and when challenged by the India= n > Section, there was no verifiable evidence to prove the allegations. > > Matters would have ended there, but for the shock and dismay members met > with. A very secret move was made by a quartet of general council members > from the West, which included the defeated candidate, to disenfranchise > members around the world and seize control of the appointment of the > President and make the president a puppet. > > Timely discovery of the ultra secret move and world-wide Internet > dissemination shocked the members world-wide. Secret attempt to seize the > power to appoint the President spoke for itself and many members could no= t > even believe their leaders will even think of such a self-serving attempt= . > This resulted in many members to have a very low level of trust in their > leaders. No leader can lead without a very high level of trust. > > Compared to other dissent ions during last century, we do not have leader= s > with charisma and a high level of trust. Also with the help of Internet, > members are now better informed of the political landscape and members ar= e > intelligent enough to see what has happened and come to their own > conclusions. > > Any attempt to try to form two Societies - East and West is bound to fall > flat on its face and the reputations of many well known members is likely > to > be irreparably damaged. > > MKR > > There is no religion higher than Truth > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >=20=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Wed Sep 16 21:40:03 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 18931 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2009 04:39:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Sep 2009 04:39:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f187.google.com) (209.85.221.187) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Sep 2009 04:39:58 -0000 X-Received: by qyk17 with SMTP id 17so5360623qyk.2 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:38:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.19.21 with SMTP id y21mr2980399qca.27.1253162281816; Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:38:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <001201ca36ea$1eaf90f0$e00e3456@khidr> References: <001201ca36ea$1eaf90f0$e00e3456@khidr> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 23:38:01 -0500 Message-ID: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 209.85.221.187 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Interesting comments from Mary Anderson X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=rCt8x4DiYiMJMtfK4SvPTUN9gb8jb9vIWJ6YbORWSwqrnURpMZQ X-Yahoo-Profile: ramadoss226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52872 Shakespeare wrote: Beauty is bought by judgement of the eye. This could be appropriately applied to the statement of Mary Anderson as well. When untruth of untrue information is revealed publicly, it is misperceived as tirade of hate. I will let the readers imagine what would be the fate of TS today, if we di= d not have theos-talk Internet mailing list to shine bright light on the happenings starting with last year's election nomination. We should all welcome if Mary would be forthcoming and tell us all about what was her involvement in the planning and execution of the strategy to defeat Radha Burnier. Non response or silence would only deepen the mystery and questions would be around for a very long time. MKR On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 11:24 AM, Morten Nymann Olesen < global-theosophy@stofanet.dk> wrote: > > > Dear friends > > My views are: > > A quote from the below e-mail: > > "many tirades of hate have appeared on the internet. " > > My views: > I wonder if this actually is the truth, or whether most of the "tirades" > instead are expressions on seeking to help various TS leaders towards the > view, that something could be improved within the TS leadership, > administratively, as well as on how TS are prepared to promulgate the > theosophical teachings, if at all? > > When a dog comes along and expresses sounds, which clearly shows that it > needs food, I think it would be a impolite not to offer it something to e= at, > if one have an abundance of food available. That is unless it needs > something else first. > > One of my own problems, as an outsider so to speak, is that quite a numbe= r > of TS websites, are today not clearly enough expressing that each lodge o= r > center has its own policies and preferences on how to promulgate theosoph= y > or on how it seek to fullfill the three aims of The Theosophical Society. > And there is as I view it, today, no longer, a clear and wellformulated l= ine > of demarcation on what is accepted and what not within a lodge. If this > could be expressed much more clearly, a lot of unfortunate misunderstadni= ngs > might be avoided. But I might have overlooked something there. > > It might be well to remember, that The Theosophical Society after all sti= ll > is an International organisation. Well, is it not? > > It would be very Important: If the leadership in the TS much more clearly > would reject autority roles (or "popery"), and express the limits which t= he > TS operates through, it could be quite helpful to Seekers inside the TS a= s > well as non-members still standing out side it. I am saying this taking t= he > two below excerpts into account. > > Now read the following two excerpts very carefully, tell me if TS still i= s > operating in accordance with the original lines? > Can it do so without claiming to be in contact with the Masters of Himala= ya > or similar elsewhere? > > 1. > H. P. Blavatsky said in 1888: > "The multiplication of local centres should be a foremost consideration i= n > your minds, and each man should strive to be a centre of work in himself. > When his inner development has reached a certain point, he will naturally > draw those with whom he is in contact under the same influence; a nucleus > will be formed, round which other people will gather, forming a centre fr= om > which information and spiritual influence radiate, and towards which high= er > influences are directed. > But let no man set up a popery instead of Theosophy, as this would be > suicidal and has ever ended most fatally. We are all fellow-students, mor= e > or less advanced; but no one belonging to the Theosophical Society ought = to > count himself as more than, at best, a pupil-teacher=E2=80=94one who has = no right to > dogmatize. > Since the Society was founded, a distinct change has come over the spirit > of the age. Those who gave us commission to found the Society foresaw thi= s, > now rapidly growing, wave of transcendental influence following that othe= r > wave of mere phenomenalism. Even the journals of Spiritualism are gradual= ly > eliminating the phenomena and wonders, to replace them with philosophy. T= he > Theosophical Society led the van of this movement; but, although > Theosophical ideas have entered into every development or form which > awakening spirituality has assumed, yet Theosophy pure and simple has sti= ll > a severe battle to fight for recognition. The days of old are gone to ret= urn > no more, and many are the Theosophists who, taught by bitter experience, > have pledged themselves to make of the Society a =E2=80=9Cmiracle club=E2= =80=9D no longer. > The faint-hearted have asked in all ages for signs and wonders, and when > these failed to be granted, they refused to believe. Such are not those w= ho > will ever comprehend Theosophy pure and simple. But there are others amon= g > us who realize intuitionally that the recognition of pure Theosophy=E2=80= =94the > philosophy of the rational explanation of things and not the tenets=E2=80= =94is of > the most vital importance in the Society, inasmuch as it alone can furnis= h > the beacon-light needed to guide humanity on its true path." (HPB's > Collected Writings, vol. 9, p. 242) > http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v9/y1888_035.htm > > 2. > Mahatma Letter from KH to A. P. Sinnett, 1882: > "The Parent S. has never interfered in the slightest degree with the > British T.S., nor indeed with any other Branch, whether religious or > philosophical. Having formed, or caused to be formed a new branch, the > Parent S. charters it (which it cannot now do without our Sanction and > signatures), and then usually retires behind the scenes, as you would say= . > Its further connection with the subject branches is limited to receiving > quarterly accounts of their doings and lists of the new Fellows, ratifyin= g > expulsions -- only when specially called upon as an arbitrator to interfe= re > on account of the Founders' direct connection with us -- etc., etc.; it > never meddles otherwise in their affairs except when appealed to as a sor= t > of appelate court. And the latter depending on you, what is there to prev= ent > your Society from remaining virtually independent? We are, even more > generous than you British are to us. We will not force upon, nor even ask > you to sanction a Hindu "Resident" in your Society, to watch the interest= s > of the Parent Paramount Power when we have once declared you independent; > but will implicitly trust to your loyalty and word of honour. But if you = now > so dislike the idea of a purely nominal executive supervision by Col. Olc= ott > -- an American of your own race -- you would surely rebel against dictati= on > from a Hindu, whose habits and methods are those of his own people, and > whose race, despite your natural benevolence, you have not yet learnt to > tolerate, let alone to love or respect." > http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-4.htm > > These were just som views of mine. I am not throwing any tirade here, I a= m > simply out of compassion seeking to be helpful. > Allright? > > M. Sufilight > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: MKR > To: theos-talk > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 2:45 AM > Subject: Theos-World Interesting comments from Mary Anderson > > Interesting comments from Mary Anderson > > Mary Anderson, formerly the International Secretary during the election, > recently commented: > +++ > But at present there is the danger of a more serious dichotomy. Following > the recent Presidential elections, which resulted in a large majority of > votes in India for the Indian candidate and a large majority of votes in > the > rest of the world for the American candidate, many tirades of hate have > appeared on the internet. The idea of two Theosophical Societies - East a= nd > West - has even been broached. > +++ > > I feel that the conclusion and reasoning behind the above observation is > very faulty. Some may be day dreaming of two societies. This is not going > to happen. Even if such a move is attempted, it is bound to end where > similar attempts ended in the past. > > Let us look at what has been going on since the start of the election > nomination. > > For an ordinary member, the events seem to point to a smart very well > coordinated and planned effort (we are yet to know the role played by Mar= y > behind the scenes) which did not pan out per expectations due to two key > factors. First, the critical role played by Internet. Second, the untrue > reason put forward to defeat the sitting president. > > This is the first election in which Independent Internet played a critica= l > role. In the past, the TS leaders controlled the flow of information (and > misinformation) to membership due to their control of the medium of > communication. With Internet forums such as theos-talk, which is outside > the > control of any organization or leader, members around the world were > provided instant information. This led to a lot of discussion among membe= rs > from around the world. This provided bright light to shine on the > information (and misinformation) fed to the members to defeat sitting > president. Such bright light brought out the truth behind information put > out to sway the members=E2=80=99 votes and defeat sitting President. > > The election propaganda started on a wrong foot. To defeat Radha Burnier, > there was an orchestrated allegation that she was sick, both mentally and > physically and this was the lay men=E2=80=99s and women=E2=80=99s opinion= and was shot down > by three well known physicians from two continents and one was a long-tim= e > theosophist and section leader. Members who saw thru this did not buy the > allegation and understood what was going on. > > It is a very well known fact that Indian Section always was the largest i= n > the world even in the days of Annie Besant. She, as a veteran leader, kne= w > this fact and advised George Arundale to get to know the Indian Section > members and win their hearts which was critical for anyone who leads TS. > > This fact is true today too. The Indian Section has been progressively > growing while the membership outside India is either declining or not > growing. In addition, the retention rate outside India is very poor. The > membership trend outside India is in such a poor state that none of the > leaders from the West want to discuss the hot potato. > > Past elections such as in the case of John Coats has proven that Indian > membership is open minded and very fair in their support of the candidate= s > with no bias. We should note that Coats defeated two well known candidate= s > from India, Rukmini Arundale and Radha Burnier with support from Indian > membership. > > Even looking beyond TS, Indian masses have demonstrated to the world of i= ts > open minded approach as compared to countries outside India. India had a > very powerful woman Prime Minister for a long time, has a woman President > now, had a Moslem President for a predominantly Hindu country and also ha= d > a > president from the untouchable class. Western countries, including United > States cannot claim such open mindedness. Neither US nor the TS in Americ= a > yet had a Hispanic president for a country with a sizable growing Hispani= c > population. > > It is very telling about the TS leadership outside India. After failing t= o > defeat the sitting President, unfounded allegations were made from the We= st > about the handling of elections in India and when challenged by the India= n > Section, there was no verifiable evidence to prove the allegations. > > Matters would have ended there, but for the shock and dismay members met > with. A very secret move was made by a quartet of general council members > from the West, which included the defeated candidate, to disenfranchise > members around the world and seize control of the appointment of the > President and make the president a puppet. > > Timely discovery of the ultra secret move and world-wide Internet > dissemination shocked the members world-wide. Secret attempt to seize the > power to appoint the President spoke for itself and many members could no= t > even believe their leaders will even think of such a self-serving attempt= . > This resulted in many members to have a very low level of trust in their > leaders. No leader can lead without a very high level of trust. > > Compared to other dissent ions during last century, we do not have leader= s > with charisma and a high level of trust. Also with the help of Internet, > members are now better informed of the political landscape and members ar= e > intelligent enough to see what has happened and come to their own > conclusions. > > Any attempt to try to form two Societies - East and West is bound to fall > flat on its face and the reputations of many well known members is likely > to > be irreparably damaged. > > MKR > > There is no religion higher than Truth > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >=20=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Thu Sep 17 08:45:18 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 93553 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2009 15:45:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Sep 2009 15:45:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mx03.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.13) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Sep 2009 15:45:13 -0000 X-Received: from 56342e5a.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.46.90] helo=khidr) by mx03.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1MoJAW-0004BG-07 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 17 Sep 2009 17:45:13 +0200 Message-ID: <000e01ca37ad$e1b8b950$5a2e3456@khidr> To: References: <001201ca36ea$1eaf90f0$e00e3456@khidr> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 17:45:28 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.13 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" Subject: Re: Theos-World Interesting comments from Mary Anderson X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=KJdkudVulwxB-4jTkA9oIDNoAkh7Hs9fSEZKCeS_t7dE X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52873 Yes. Sure for sure, a tree is always known on its fruits. M. Sufilight ----- Original Message -----=20 From: MKR=20 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 6:38 AM Subject: Re: Theos-World Interesting comments from Mary Anderson Shakespeare wrote: Beauty is bought by judgement of the eye. This could be appropriately applied to the statement of Mary Anderson as well. When untruth of untrue information is revealed publicly, it is misperceiv= ed as tirade of hate. I will let the readers imagine what would be the fate of TS today, if we = did not have theos-talk Internet mailing list to shine bright light on the happenings starting with last year's election nomination. We should all welcome if Mary would be forthcoming and tell us all about what was her involvement in the planning and execution of the strategy to defeat Radha Burnier. Non response or silence would only deepen the myste= ry and questions would be around for a very long time. MKR On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 11:24 AM, Morten Nymann Olesen < global-theosophy@stofanet.dk> wrote: > > > Dear friends > > My views are: > > A quote from the below e-mail: > > "many tirades of hate have appeared on the internet. " > > My views: > I wonder if this actually is the truth, or whether most of the "tirades= " > instead are expressions on seeking to help various TS leaders towards t= he > view, that something could be improved within the TS leadership, > administratively, as well as on how TS are prepared to promulgate the > theosophical teachings, if at all? > > When a dog comes along and expresses sounds, which clearly shows that i= t > needs food, I think it would be a impolite not to offer it something to= eat, > if one have an abundance of food available. That is unless it needs > something else first. > > One of my own problems, as an outsider so to speak, is that quite a num= ber > of TS websites, are today not clearly enough expressing that each lodge= or > center has its own policies and preferences on how to promulgate theoso= phy > or on how it seek to fullfill the three aims of The Theosophical Societ= y. > And there is as I view it, today, no longer, a clear and wellformulated= line > of demarcation on what is accepted and what not within a lodge. If this > could be expressed much more clearly, a lot of unfortunate misunderstad= nings > might be avoided. But I might have overlooked something there. > > It might be well to remember, that The Theosophical Society after all s= till > is an International organisation. Well, is it not? > > It would be very Important: If the leadership in the TS much more clear= ly > would reject autority roles (or "popery"), and express the limits which= the > TS operates through, it could be quite helpful to Seekers inside the TS= as > well as non-members still standing out side it. I am saying this taking= the > two below excerpts into account. > > Now read the following two excerpts very carefully, tell me if TS still= is > operating in accordance with the original lines? > Can it do so without claiming to be in contact with the Masters of Hima= laya > or similar elsewhere? > > 1. > H. P. Blavatsky said in 1888: > "The multiplication of local centres should be a foremost consideration= in > your minds, and each man should strive to be a centre of work in himsel= f. > When his inner development has reached a certain point, he will natural= ly > draw those with whom he is in contact under the same influence; a nucle= us > will be formed, round which other people will gather, forming a centre = from > which information and spiritual influence radiate, and towards which hi= gher > influences are directed. > But let no man set up a popery instead of Theosophy, as this would be > suicidal and has ever ended most fatally. We are all fellow-students, m= ore > or less advanced; but no one belonging to the Theosophical Society ough= t to > count himself as more than, at best, a pupil-teacher=E2=80=94one who ha= s no right to > dogmatize. > Since the Society was founded, a distinct change has come over the spir= it > of the age. Those who gave us commission to found the Society foresaw t= his, > now rapidly growing, wave of transcendental influence following that ot= her > wave of mere phenomenalism. Even the journals of Spiritualism are gradu= ally > eliminating the phenomena and wonders, to replace them with philosophy.= The > Theosophical Society led the van of this movement; but, although > Theosophical ideas have entered into every development or form which > awakening spirituality has assumed, yet Theosophy pure and simple has s= till > a severe battle to fight for recognition. The days of old are gone to r= eturn > no more, and many are the Theosophists who, taught by bitter experience= , > have pledged themselves to make of the Society a =E2=80=9Cmiracle club= =E2=80=9D no longer. > The faint-hearted have asked in all ages for signs and wonders, and whe= n > these failed to be granted, they refused to believe. Such are not those= who > will ever comprehend Theosophy pure and simple. But there are others am= ong > us who realize intuitionally that the recognition of pure Theosophy=E2= =80=94the > philosophy of the rational explanation of things and not the tenets=E2= =80=94is of > the most vital importance in the Society, inasmuch as it alone can furn= ish > the beacon-light needed to guide humanity on its true path." (HPB's > Collected Writings, vol. 9, p. 242) > http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v9/y1888_035.htm > > 2. > Mahatma Letter from KH to A. P. Sinnett, 1882: > "The Parent S. has never interfered in the slightest degree with the > British T.S., nor indeed with any other Branch, whether religious or > philosophical. Having formed, or caused to be formed a new branch, the > Parent S. charters it (which it cannot now do without our Sanction and > signatures), and then usually retires behind the scenes, as you would s= ay. > Its further connection with the subject branches is limited to receivin= g > quarterly accounts of their doings and lists of the new Fellows, ratify= ing > expulsions -- only when specially called upon as an arbitrator to inter= fere > on account of the Founders' direct connection with us -- etc., etc.; it > never meddles otherwise in their affairs except when appealed to as a s= ort > of appelate court. And the latter depending on you, what is there to pr= event > your Society from remaining virtually independent? We are, even more > generous than you British are to us. We will not force upon, nor even a= sk > you to sanction a Hindu "Resident" in your Society, to watch the intere= sts > of the Parent Paramount Power when we have once declared you independen= t; > but will implicitly trust to your loyalty and word of honour. But if yo= u now > so dislike the idea of a purely nominal executive supervision by Col. O= lcott > -- an American of your own race -- you would surely rebel against dicta= tion > from a Hindu, whose habits and methods are those of his own people, and > whose race, despite your natural benevolence, you have not yet learnt t= o > tolerate, let alone to love or respect." > http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-4.htm > > These were just som views of mine. I am not throwing any tirade here, I= am > simply out of compassion seeking to be helpful. > Allright? > > M. Sufilight > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: MKR > To: theos-talk > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 2:45 AM > Subject: Theos-World Interesting comments from Mary Anderson > > Interesting comments from Mary Anderson > > Mary Anderson, formerly the International Secretary during the election= , > recently commented: > +++ > But at present there is the danger of a more serious dichotomy. Followi= ng > the recent Presidential elections, which resulted in a large majority o= f > votes in India for the Indian candidate and a large majority of votes i= n > the > rest of the world for the American candidate, many tirades of hate have > appeared on the internet. The idea of two Theosophical Societies - East= and > West - has even been broached. > +++ > > I feel that the conclusion and reasoning behind the above observation i= s > very faulty. Some may be day dreaming of two societies. This is not goi= ng > to happen. Even if such a move is attempted, it is bound to end where > similar attempts ended in the past. > > Let us look at what has been going on since the start of the election > nomination. > > For an ordinary member, the events seem to point to a smart very well > coordinated and planned effort (we are yet to know the role played by M= ary > behind the scenes) which did not pan out per expectations due to two ke= y > factors. First, the critical role played by Internet. Second, the untru= e > reason put forward to defeat the sitting president. > > This is the first election in which Independent Internet played a criti= cal > role. In the past, the TS leaders controlled the flow of information (a= nd > misinformation) to membership due to their control of the medium of > communication. With Internet forums such as theos-talk, which is outsid= e > the > control of any organization or leader, members around the world were > provided instant information. This led to a lot of discussion among mem= bers > from around the world. This provided bright light to shine on the > information (and misinformation) fed to the members to defeat sitting > president. Such bright light brought out the truth behind information p= ut > out to sway the members=E2=80=99 votes and defeat sitting President. > > The election propaganda started on a wrong foot. To defeat Radha Burnie= r, > there was an orchestrated allegation that she was sick, both mentally a= nd > physically and this was the lay men=E2=80=99s and women=E2=80=99s opini= on and was shot down > by three well known physicians from two continents and one was a long-t= ime > theosophist and section leader. Members who saw thru this did not buy t= he > allegation and understood what was going on. > > It is a very well known fact that Indian Section always was the largest= in > the world even in the days of Annie Besant. She, as a veteran leader, k= new > this fact and advised George Arundale to get to know the Indian Section > members and win their hearts which was critical for anyone who leads TS= . > > This fact is true today too. The Indian Section has been progressively > growing while the membership outside India is either declining or not > growing. In addition, the retention rate outside India is very poor. Th= e > membership trend outside India is in such a poor state that none of the > leaders from the West want to discuss the hot potato. > > Past elections such as in the case of John Coats has proven that Indian > membership is open minded and very fair in their support of the candida= tes > with no bias. We should note that Coats defeated two well known candida= tes > from India, Rukmini Arundale and Radha Burnier with support from Indian > membership. > > Even looking beyond TS, Indian masses have demonstrated to the world of= its > open minded approach as compared to countries outside India. India had = a > very powerful woman Prime Minister for a long time, has a woman Preside= nt > now, had a Moslem President for a predominantly Hindu country and also = had > a > president from the untouchable class. Western countries, including Unit= ed > States cannot claim such open mindedness. Neither US nor the TS in Amer= ica > yet had a Hispanic president for a country with a sizable growing Hispa= nic > population. > > It is very telling about the TS leadership outside India. After failing= to > defeat the sitting President, unfounded allegations were made from the = West > about the handling of elections in India and when challenged by the Ind= ian > Section, there was no verifiable evidence to prove the allegations. > > Matters would have ended there, but for the shock and dismay members me= t > with. A very secret move was made by a quartet of general council membe= rs > from the West, which included the defeated candidate, to disenfranchise > members around the world and seize control of the appointment of the > President and make the president a puppet. > > Timely discovery of the ultra secret move and world-wide Internet > dissemination shocked the members world-wide. Secret attempt to seize t= he > power to appoint the President spoke for itself and many members could = not > even believe their leaders will even think of such a self-serving attem= pt. > This resulted in many members to have a very low level of trust in thei= r > leaders. No leader can lead without a very high level of trust. > > Compared to other dissent ions during last century, we do not have lead= ers > with charisma and a high level of trust. Also with the help of Internet= , > members are now better informed of the political landscape and members = are > intelligent enough to see what has happened and come to their own > conclusions. > > Any attempt to try to form two Societies - East and West is bound to fa= ll > flat on its face and the reputations of many well known members is like= ly > to > be irreparably damaged. > > MKR > > There is no religion higher than Truth > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From rialto9000@yahoo.com Thu Sep 17 12:12:51 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: rialto9000@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 91610 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2009 19:12:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Sep 2009 19:12:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n1.bullet.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (68.142.237.108) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Sep 2009 19:12:45 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.89] by n1.bullet.mail.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Sep 2009 19:11:43 -0000 X-Received: from [67.195.9.83] by t5.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Sep 2009 19:11:43 -0000 X-Received: from [67.195.9.102] by t3.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Sep 2009 19:11:43 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Sep 2009 19:11:43 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 345069.9494.bm@omp106.mail.gq1.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 87341 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Sep 2009 19:11:43 -0000 Message-ID: <249961.84852.qm@web111617.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: WWA_x_wVM1lRnHuLHHn.7qvx8DR3MOnv_JZzjux9Pmc2laotOTyoWaFiP5ld_GQyCtEFw4MUb4kZO4Y7GZXQpc8R0MqjW99b97HI7q1fV3RQqhxKoaWSZAmUuxlgCNWGfuCnBcvanBz8FkVF9mZ2TU0c556rVp1CIDIlbhu2nvvX7T5B4Liu8XUKtcGj0uvz2Ek.0OmO00II018w9Vc- X-Received: from [74.64.75.53] by web111617.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:11:43 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/7.0.14 YahooMailWebService/0.7.347.2 Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:11:43 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 68.142.237.108 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rialto Maldonado Subject: views on theosophy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=406647630; y=_KRc9D089hSn4cebe-XXrfY28dlUCqhn-IBnUGT1w44Rxgfo_Q X-Yahoo-Profile: rialto9000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52874 I studied the forum today. Dan Browns latest book looks like another winner= fore him. =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0I saw the last one and =A0I know illu= minati people who were not happy as portrayed as =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0villains .I know people who are freemaisons who are not happy with D= an Brown either =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 and wiate till he writes about us which= as god made little green apples he will =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0probally do. =20=20=20=20=20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Thu Sep 17 12:46:00 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 58082 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2009 19:45:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Sep 2009 19:45:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO qw-out-1920.google.com) (74.125.92.149) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Sep 2009 19:45:55 -0000 X-Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 5so120862qwf.22 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:44:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.33.12 with SMTP id f12mr264073qcd.6.1253216694954; Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:44:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <249961.84852.qm@web111617.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <249961.84852.qm@web111617.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 14:44:54 -0500 Message-ID: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 74.125.92.149 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World views on theosophy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=3fH2-tsdbMnkaJBiPXAlpXYlKnvjtWxkOwtzu3h_qCAPb74NlDU X-Yahoo-Profile: ramadoss226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52875 I think freemasons should be happy to see the new book. Also theosophists should also like it. Too much wrong information has been going around about freemasons. But for them, today we will have a US with christianty as the official religion. Many singners of Declaration of Independence are masons and they had the correct view of religion in its broadest sense. Let us wait to see book reviews. MKR On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Rialto Maldonado wrote: > > > I studied the forum today. Dan Browns latest book looks like another winner > fore him. I saw the last one and I know illuminati people who > were not happy as portrayed as villains .I know people who > are freemaisons who are not happy with Dan Brown either and wiate > till he writes about us which as god made little green apples he will > probally do. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Augoeides-222@comcast.net Thu Sep 17 13:24:51 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: augoeides-222@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 28190 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2009 20:24:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Sep 2009 20:24:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO QMTA13.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net) (76.96.27.243) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Sep 2009 20:24:49 -0000 X-Received: from OMTA08.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.12]) by QMTA13.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id hvWg1c00F0FhH24ADwQm2k; Thu, 17 Sep 2009 20:24:46 +0000 X-Received: from sz0103.ev.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.26.163]) by OMTA08.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id hwQl1c00Q3X8bDG8UwQl54; Thu, 17 Sep 2009 20:24:46 +0000 Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 20:24:45 +0000 (UTC) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <1219095313.2377741253219085924.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Zimbra 5.0.16_GA_2927.RHEL5_64 (ZimbraWebClient - FF3.0 (Win)/5.0.16_GA_2927.RHEL5_64) X-Originating-IP: 76.96.27.243 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net Subject: Re: Theos-World views on theosophy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=314500470; y=NuHmj2AtEAqV1lcg0aQgeN6OlACxO8A-YT-tTWs7sntoVTtUPfy-diEytD0BbiWA X-Yahoo-Profile: sessesgenbarpharanges Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52876 mkr, One amazing thing about the Book is the Publisher has scheduled the initial Publishment Run to be not less than 12,000,000 copies all in English, later runs will be in various languages. Prudence is a virtue when reading his books. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "MKR" To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:44:54 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: Theos-World views on theosophy I think freemasons should be happy to see the new book. Also theosophists should also like it. Too much wrong information has been going around about freemasons. But for them, today we will have a US with christianty as the official religion. Many singners of Declaration of Independence are masons and they had the correct view of religion in its broadest sense. Let us wait to see book reviews. MKR On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Rialto Maldonado < rialto9000@yahoo.com >wrote: > > > I studied the forum today. Dan Browns latest book looks like another winner > fore him. I saw the last one and I know illuminati people who > were not happy as portrayed as villains .I know people who > are freemaisons who are not happy with Dan Brown either and wiate > till he writes about us which as god made little green apples he will > probally do. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From edare@bellsouth.net Thu Sep 17 15:53:24 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: edare@bellsouth.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 34477 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2009 22:53:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Sep 2009 22:53:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n40b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.154) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Sep 2009 22:53:18 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.171] by n40.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Sep 2009 22:52:47 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.35.12] by t13.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Sep 2009 22:52:47 -0000 Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 22:52:46 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.168.154 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 68.154.222.242 From: "edareo" Subject: Nondualitus X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=404984057; y=Wq0PSF_CEbFkChJfdHMZdoI9WG56RLy1binj9WJOuihitOys7gXW X-Yahoo-Profile: edareo X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52877 A condition arising when the sense of separateness is contradicted by the = knowledge that everything is interconnected.=20=20 Hmm=20 E.=20 From mkr777@gmail.com Thu Sep 17 18:44:01 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 7321 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2009 01:43:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Sep 2009 01:43:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f189.google.com) (209.85.221.189) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Sep 2009 01:43:57 -0000 X-Received: by qyk27 with SMTP id 27so606296qyk.13 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:42:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.92.199 with SMTP id s7mr319946qcm.23.1253238177727; Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:42:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 20:42:57 -0500 Message-ID: To: theos-talk X-Originating-IP: 209.85.221.189 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Some More feedback on Mary Anderson's Comments X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=f-g2jtpw9iU-qLShTVQ5LztO7XFCAVrwdy81PE4yyDXcu169p_8 X-Yahoo-Profile: ramadoss226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52878 Mary Anderson, former International Secretary recently commented: +++ The idea of two Theosophical Societies - East and West - has even been broached. +++ A quick look at the organizational set up of TS is very revealing. The national sections are totally autonomous as if each section is a Society by itself. International President gets involved only when there are disputes or problems between sections. To understand the structure, all one needs to do is to read up early history of the TS and the correspondence the Mahatmas had with Sinnett. Let us remind ourselves that a great amount of of wisdom went into developing the structure of TS and let us not befool ourselves that we are smarter than those who started and built the TS. TS does not have a Pope or Popess dictating and controlling what goes on in the sections. So the idea of two Societies is intriguing for some and is laughable for others. If the idea of two societies is logically extended, then we may end up with multiple societies based on other divisions in the world that has caused and is causing a lot of misery to our fellow beings. Anyone wants to add anything? MKR [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Thu Sep 17 21:23:12 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 91318 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2009 04:23:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Sep 2009 04:23:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-da06.mx.aol.com) (205.188.169.203) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Sep 2009 04:23:10 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (imo-ma02.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.137]) by imr-da06.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n8I4Me4g013732 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 00:22:41 -0400 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.5.) id r.beb.4c29c827 (39331) for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 00:22:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 00:22:39 EDT To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 9.1 sub 5000 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Originating-IP: 205.188.169.203 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Some More feedback on Mary Anderson's Comments X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=j6uMdeFTgvdvI82ZA7OVFYT4oXonRiDWOf4RheOnY45NcpqGJA X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52879 We don't have to fool ourselves. We really ARE smarter than they were, if we go by what they wrote. Chuck the Heretic www.charlescosimano.com In a message dated 9/17/2009 8:44:33 P.M. Central Daylight Time, mkr777@gmail.com writes: Mary Anderson, former International Secretary recently commented: +++ The idea of two Theosophical Societies - East and West - has even been broached. +++ A quick look at the organizational set up of TS is very revealing. The national sections are totally autonomous as if each section is a Society by itself. International President gets involved only when there are disputes or problems between sections. To understand the structure, all one needs to do is to read up early history of the TS and the correspondence the Mahatmas had with Sinnett. Let us remind ourselves that a great amount of of wisdom went into developing the structure of TS and let us not befool ourselves that we are smarter than those who started and built the TS. TS does not have a Pope or Popess dictating and controlling what goes on in the sections. So the idea of two Societies is intriguing f_or some and is laughable for others. If the idea of two societies is logically extended, then we may end up with multiple societies based on other divisions in the world that has caused and is causing a lot of misery to our fellow beings. Anyone wants to add anything? MKR [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From leonmaurer@aol.com Thu Sep 17 23:23:25 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 21811 invoked from network); 18 Sep 2009 06:23:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Sep 2009 06:23:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-db02.mx.aol.com) (205.188.91.96) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Sep 2009 06:23:20 -0000 X-Received: from imo-da04.mx.aol.com (imo-da04.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.202]) by imr-db02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n8I6NArv011573; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 02:23:10 -0400 X-Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-da04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.5.) id r.d30.56022807 (43909) for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 02:23:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from [174.48.196.108] (c-174-48-196-108.hsd1.fl.comcast.net [174.48.196.108]) by cia-dc07.mx.aol.com (v125.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIADC076-ab854ab327481c6; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 02:23:04 -0400 In-Reply-To: <49E3A8FB.7080001@withoutwalls.com> References: <49E3A8FB.7080001@withoutwalls.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Message-Id: Cc: Leon Maurer Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 02:23:17 -0400 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753.1) X-AOL-IP: 174.48.196.108 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Originating-IP: 205.188.91.96 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Leon Maurer Subject: Re: [esotericcosmology] Re: [quantum_theory] Does Light Quanta have mass? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972; y=3kuL0KCqqVyUmTBKXa9Pq_J-UiURfqTlHr5kW9jxPyrmgb_zrfw X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52880 On Apr 13, 2009, at 4/13/095:04 PM, Mark Kusek wrote: > Leon, > > How does that resonance transmission work actually? Is there any > morphology to it? Are there any field forms or wave geometries > involved > in the transmission? See my cross-section diagram of the initial field of cosmogenesis and its initial series of 3 fractal involutions: http://leonmaurer.info/ABCimages/Cyclic-paths-cosmogenesis.jpg And also see the way all harmonic fields radiate initially from any zero- point spin momentum at: http://leonmaurer.info/ABCimages/InvolutionToroidFractFld-di.jpg Obviously, all such harmonic fields are interconnected at their zero- point centers of origin, and interpenetrate each other as they radially expand through total spacetime. Thus, when any field is disturbed (by a vibrational frequency such as a musical note or other modulated wave information) all harmonic fields -- at different frequency phase orders (analogous to musical octaves) that are connected to the same fixed point (like violin strings linked to each other through the intermediate air or the wood frame of the instrument) -- vibrate at the corresponding harmonic frequency. Remember that all radiant fields have their lines of force tied to the zero-point of absolute space -- which is one thing, and thus, entirely stationary relative to the changes in frequency modulations of each harmonic field. Since all radiant fields are composed of a matrix consisting of zero-point 1-d lines of force, the entire basis of all the resonance laws of electrodynamics are in accord with the Maxwell, Faraday, Coulomb, Ampere equations -- that, with different constants, apply to all harmonic fields at any phase order throughout total cosmic spacetime. > Do concepts like "valence" have anything to do with it in terms of how > it might bond/relate when transmitting? Valance is related to the number of electrons in the outer ring of any atomic particle, and have little to do with the vibratory resonance between radiant energy fields -- which are composed of pure space in motion, that form subquantum and quantum (particle-like) standing waves. So, I doubt that valence, at the atomic level, has anything to do with the phase conjugate adaptive resonance between different orders of radiant fields -- from the lower order EM fields on the physical plane to the highest order fields on the cosmic spiritual plane -- whose outer circumference is the theosophical "Ring Pass not". See: http://leonmaurer.info/ABCimages/chakrafield.gif Incidentally, this resonance is the reason why no information can ever be lost and ultimately ends up in the akashic fields, to last forever as the basis of all karma (action = reaction). Leon http://dzyanmaster.wordpress.com/ Note: If links are not clickable, and have spaces in them -- close them up and copy-paste entire URL in browser. > > -- M > > > > Leon Maurer wrote: > > and transmit such information from one frequency phase order to > another > by phase conjugate adaptive resonance." > > > Mark Kusek > Without Walls: An Internet Art Space > ___________________________________________ > > www.withoutwalls.com > > facebook | mark kusek > > linkedin | mark kusek > > portfolio | mark kusek > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Sat Sep 19 07:22:54 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 63216 invoked from network); 19 Sep 2009 14:22:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Sep 2009 14:22:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f178.google.com) (209.85.221.178) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Sep 2009 14:22:48 -0000 X-Received: by qyk8 with SMTP id 8so1616240qyk.24 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2009 07:21:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.119.69 with SMTP id y5mr734485qcq.100.1253370108466; Sat, 19 Sep 2009 07:21:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 09:21:48 -0500 Message-ID: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 209.85.221.178 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Some More feedback on Mary Anderson's Comments X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=Phj6X9fMDwYKRMerHnDlWoQsQFPlzo5XJVbD_n6VRLAdBDmabXI X-Yahoo-Profile: ramadoss226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52881 Don't we already have Cyberspace Theosophical Society here operating 24/7? I am sure many old-timers and 'elders' do not know how to deal with the new landscape. It is a chance to transform themselves now and adapt to the new environment or else to be left behind and have to catch up in the next incarnation! MKR On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:22 PM, wrote: > > > We don't have to fool ourselves. We really ARE smarter than they were, if > we go by what they wrote. > > Chuck the Heretic > > www.charlescosimano.com > > In a message dated 9/17/2009 8:44:33 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > mkr777@gmail.com writes: > > Mary Anderson, former International Secretary recently commented: > > +++ > The idea of two Theosophical Societies - East and West - has even been > broached. > +++ > > A quick look at the organizational set up of TS is very revealing. The > national sections are totally autonomous as if each section is a Society by > itself. International President gets involved only when there are disputes > or problems between sections. To understand the structure, all one needs to > do is to read up early history of the TS and the correspondence the > Mahatmas > had with Sinnett. Let us remind ourselves that a great amount of of wisdom > went into developing the structure of TS and let us not befool ourselves > that we are smarter than those who started and built the TS. > > TS does not have a Pope or Popess dictating and controlling what goes on in > the sections. So the idea of two Societies is intriguing f_or some and is > laughable for others. If the idea of two societies is logically extended, > then we may end up with multiple societies based on other divisions in the > world that has caused and is causing a lot of misery to our fellow beings. > > Anyone wants to add anything? > > MKR > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From rialto9000@yahoo.com Sun Sep 20 07:40:09 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: rialto9000@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 68390 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2009 14:40:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Sep 2009 14:40:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n61.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (98.136.44.37) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Sep 2009 14:40:02 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n61.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Sep 2009 14:38:45 -0000 X-Received: from [67.195.9.82] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Sep 2009 14:38:45 -0000 X-Received: from [67.195.9.110] by t2.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Sep 2009 14:38:45 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp114.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Sep 2009 14:38:45 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 431823.89026.bm@omp114.mail.gq1.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 93719 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Sep 2009 14:38:45 -0000 Message-ID: <346252.88636.qm@web111610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: L0iX220VM1m6XwZ1mNhUP0fIaaOb6POaDbLXpCKaF1yfh4TvedZ5U7s6.Cw41b3kgU0iM0BF_XEveUs9vkG22OXLI5HiBo8xBAkvuilK1zgUBFYcIEWGCb.PRzlQLK48dl.ppUNz3Xod5LHlSM_bs5EQOrYZme5t_UmIjaY5Tu63b.sxUArzCdG8Kvj5vJvJmJtdoER7LC9w1eNsOzU- X-Received: from [74.64.75.53] by web111610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 20 Sep 2009 07:38:45 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/7.0.14 YahooMailWebService/0.7.347.2 Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 07:38:45 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 98.136.44.37 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rialto Maldonado Subject: Dan browns latest book. X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=406647630; y=bWaK-aYAGiDSEIO7dRHyioYcaWWsfhE_UQ7__z0Y2IRDs35C5Q X-Yahoo-Profile: rialto9000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52882 i was not horrified as some my fm 106 friends in kingston by it.Its a good = story but =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 total fiction,and my fm 106 friends t= ell me they had a good laugh a they have read it. =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0It might make a movie. Just think he might boost ts membership if he doe= s one us =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 next and lets see if he reads the sd f= irst and gets it right.Many schools of the =A0are =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 very practical and have positive ends to there purpose. =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0=A0 =20=20=20=20=20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From rialto9000@yahoo.com Sun Sep 20 16:09:56 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: rialto9000@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 90564 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2009 23:09:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Sep 2009 23:09:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n9.bullet.re3.yahoo.com) (68.142.237.94) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Sep 2009 23:09:51 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.230.28] by n9.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Sep 2009 23:09:50 -0000 X-Received: from [67.195.9.83] by t1.bullet.re2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Sep 2009 23:09:50 -0000 X-Received: from [67.195.9.109] by t3.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Sep 2009 23:09:50 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp113.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Sep 2009 23:09:50 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 374078.98284.bm@omp113.mail.gq1.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 74681 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Sep 2009 23:09:50 -0000 Message-ID: <268735.71553.qm@web111603.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: xF3ChyIVM1lnfnUSc52k9l7_08fie4XW8N.r71Smxw6ssINnfJ3wwJHGaYyTRBmWls1ZV7IyQcgRJ_qqZy7V7KY5hXSDRVtbyhkMzGJujZ7kTxgEHbXWpsajidvx55uldRZdb9eHXEzFxV0gNNI5G0X5sjgLSdmfGO5Cj9sX7lh63mPLWdkykI7z0TVx6ll2orNgjuEGoYq3hlXrO14- X-Received: from [74.64.75.53] by web111603.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 20 Sep 2009 16:09:50 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/7.0.14 YahooMailWebService/0.7.347.2 Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 16:09:50 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 68.142.237.94 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rialto Maldonado Subject: ts communications X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=406647630; y=Oq5mE_9LezSEisVAFMkVZGRyuuCC4_Dm-ZPMiTcUJ98_92J73Q X-Yahoo-Profile: rialto9000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52883 I did not go home directly from ts study day but went to see a friend with = a mac =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A04 core super monster which= he built himself and with aid of mac tech.I attended on =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0second life with a friend who,s computer we were using =A0a = ts type second life =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 gathering a= nd some of the second life people expressed ts view points . I m going to d= o it =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0again psybernetics and computer tech could be a revolut= ion in esoteric =A0presentation =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 computers and =A0im= formation accessibilty =A0are the key is presenting ideas in creative =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 ways.the envisining ideas via =A0ts opportunities w= ays service, communications, and =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 dilligence= .. =A0A friend of mine did this in an esoteric way in sussex via a circle = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 based second life in sussex 24 = hours a day.The computer with cini magic tech can create =A0 =A0 =A0 the dawn of creation =A0 and travel time without the constraints of human inte= llect =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0We can now =A0spread an idea acros= s the world in minutes.I,m going to look into second life =A0 =A0 =A0gather= ings of esoteric nature.Edducation could be fun ts wise and we make it glob= al =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0 =20=20=20=20=20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From rialto9000@yahoo.com Sun Sep 20 22:15:23 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: rialto9000@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 32886 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2009 05:15:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Sep 2009 05:15:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n62.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (98.136.44.35) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Sep 2009 05:15:16 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n62.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Sep 2009 05:14:41 -0000 X-Received: from [67.195.9.81] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Sep 2009 05:14:41 -0000 X-Received: from [67.195.9.97] by t1.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Sep 2009 05:14:41 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp101.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Sep 2009 05:05:17 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 842762.91854.bm@omp101.mail.gq1.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 87605 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Sep 2009 04:59:22 -0000 Message-ID: <985466.86656.qm@web111605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: hHyYS34VM1nwwVtCJR8i8wz1JMZSNyFQhidG5.AFdandLqr.dx4PC0.fu2Jiz9cJYcZfIkvLTUFKhBCq59xCJW8QPj2lWyCFgM0FN.jeWDgzuUMjDVmzsNuBpiO.TrU2IrqYQKV6U9vcLVyH59vlna9OtxcjYmyBN0yr8nK6UYxYKO13pZf7GYFmYU0tAEGvMKqdQSqQkDF17fSFWCk- X-Received: from [74.64.75.53] by web111605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 20 Sep 2009 21:59:21 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/7.0.14 YahooMailWebService/0.7.347.2 Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 21:59:21 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 98.136.44.35 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rialto Maldonado Subject: a ts conversation X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=406647630; y=6EmGSZ50BpgCAvGzo72p4pzcaYGxUJdWPe52hHnZY3BL2iQijg X-Yahoo-Profile: rialto9000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52884 this evening some friends from kdt the tibetan monasrty dropped by.They use= d a word =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0which there is no translation in english, b= ut about an ancestral energy, or a =A0 sense =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0of = the sacred.There is no translation buddhist words in english for some of th= ese =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 concepts.Then problem my buddhist f= riends =A0about the sense of purpose in theosophy =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0is= that we,ve lost the sense ofd the sacred.The ts has a great future but I d= on,t know =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0answers and the answers are in heart and m= inds together.I know tibetans who =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0are sad for there land and there people, but hold a sense of the sacred = for what tibet =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0represents.They hold hope that the ch= inese curse will go away and there land is theres =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 agian= ..I could use pali but my keyboard is in english and we have to see this se= nse =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0of purpose.There is a buddhist word in pali which says it necely but the buddha stated =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 only believe what you prove and experience first hand.A teacher= can only poiint the =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 way.The pali word is part = of that concept and more. =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =20=20=20=20=20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Mon Sep 21 18:23:01 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 45588 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2009 01:22:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Sep 2009 01:22:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f178.google.com) (209.85.221.178) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Sep 2009 01:22:58 -0000 X-Received: by qyk8 with SMTP id 8so2801634qyk.24 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 2009 18:21:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.51.219 with SMTP id e27mr60558qcg.7.1253582516976; Mon, 21 Sep 2009 18:21:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 20:21:56 -0500 Message-ID: To: theos-talk , theos-l X-Originating-IP: 209.85.221.178 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: First look at - Krotona in the Ojai Valley - Vol IV - 1923-26 by Joseph E Ross X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=A5ZbnygRbHvPY8r2JOHg7Av0NpNaF2I0wE07bkMl8MkUvSQGa2g X-Yahoo-Profile: ramadoss226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52885 Brief First Look - Krotona in the Ojai Valley - Vol IV - 1923-26 by Joseph E Ross - 2009. Self published. ISBN: 978-0-925943-14-9 I just had a chance to browse through the book about the events and developments that took place around Krotona and leaders of Theosophical Society during 1923-1926. It has 464 pages of tightly packed very detailed material of great historical value and a must read for anyone interested in the history of Theosophical Society. Even a cursory reading should convince the reader about the enormous effort that has gone into researching the material and collecting various letters and other correspondence and one can see the labor of love behind the publication. It is going to take some time to read and digest all the material and I hope to write detailed comments on the material and historical events covered, some of which may have some relevance to the events that have taken place since the start of the election of International President last year. MKR [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Mon Sep 21 21:22:01 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 70981 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2009 04:21:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Sep 2009 04:21:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-ma06.mx.aol.com) (64.12.78.142) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Sep 2009 04:21:58 -0000 X-Received: from imo-da02.mx.aol.com (imo-da02.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.200]) by imr-ma06.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n8M4LKGC020556 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 2009 00:21:20 -0400 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-da02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.5.) id r.c34.60037c91 (29673) for ; Tue, 22 Sep 2009 00:21:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 00:21:16 EDT To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 9.1 sub 5000 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Originating-IP: 64.12.78.142 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World First look at - Krotona in the Ojai Valley - Vol IV - 1923-26... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=6KoOCpT-aPKgo-R15sQw-XHQIgrlK_P_DXwaGhVypIvc__YshA X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52886 Does it have any pictures of those poor devils in their cast-off Salvation Army uniforms? Chuck the Heretic www.charlescosimano.com In a message dated 9/21/2009 8:23:31 P.M. Central Daylight Time, mkr777@gmail.com writes: Brief First Look - Krotona in the Ojai Valley - Vol IV - 1923-26 by Joseph E Ross - 2009. Self published. ISBN: 978-0-925943-Ross I just had a chance to browse through the book about the events and developments that took place around Krotona and leaders of Theosophical Society during 1923-1926. It has 464 pages of tightly packed very detailed material of great historical value and a must read for anyone interested in the history of Theosophical Society. Even a cursory reading should convince the reader about the enormous effort that has gone into researching the material and collecting various letters and other correspondence and one can see the labor of love behind the publication. It is going to take some time to read and digest all the material and I hope to write detailed comments on the material and historical events covered, some of which may have some re_levance to the events that have taken place since the start of the election of International President last year. MKR [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From rialto9000@yahoo.com Tue Sep 22 09:20:33 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: rialto9000@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 10885 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2009 16:20:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Sep 2009 16:20:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web111611.mail.gq1.yahoo.com) (67.195.23.98) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Sep 2009 16:20:30 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 3972 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Sep 2009 16:20:23 -0000 Message-ID: <52925.1815.qm@web111611.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: zvdKGWIVM1m15XBEua__hKutb7BusABFxF3lzx3lzu3fXTZcejQ7dnE6gXL12xSxQ1n5aUx7Hu0D3OpeDeot0zdE40flpRqK5j8GaholRPmCOmyo5mgyXSlHU2n_GpNItyz57yOJvjDag2q991qjyTVDKdH54XytbxcAoRMVlOe32HsDbNWFzEOu9pjbtGIDsax5VHG6uUHspy19mqji3vE- X-Received: from [74.64.75.53] by web111611.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 22 Sep 2009 09:20:23 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/7.0.14 YahooMailWebService/0.7.347.2 Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 09:20:23 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 67.195.23.98 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rialto Maldonado Subject: goode morning X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=406647630; y=MM-DEfGol79RdYjx5W9cBnhpToBOLTvGGnBnfnK5FH3VwM5fMg X-Yahoo-Profile: rialto9000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52887 i loooked through the forum today. quite interesting =A0. Have a good day. =20=20=20=20=20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Sep 22 16:40:44 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 69019 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2009 23:40:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Sep 2009 23:40:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f181.google.com) (209.85.221.181) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Sep 2009 23:40:40 -0000 X-Received: by qyk11 with SMTP id 11so217956qyk.20 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:39:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.27.195 with SMTP id j3mr725981qcc.57.1253662780241; Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:39:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 18:39:40 -0500 Message-ID: To: theos-talk X-Originating-IP: 209.85.221.181 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Krishnamurti=E2=80=99s_Comments_on_Adyar?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=EXgX9fsK2iGLJf-wWcwto5WTNgge3MRmUk7MRJ2QHfnjhbUwAN4 X-Yahoo-Profile: ramadoss226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52888 Krishnamurti=E2=80=99s Comments on Adyar On Jan 7, 1924, Jiddu Krishnamurti wrote to the members of TS: +++ It is essential for the individual member and for the Society that Adyar, a= s a great spiritual center, should be maintained worthy and dignified. The importance of this is so obvious that few can doubt it. Adyar is and always has been, a spiritual oasis to which the weary traveller looks for comfort and repose. Though it may not be the previlege of each member in the Society, to go there from the world of wilderness, yet the mere existence o= f such a center give hope and encouragement. I have visited many a wonderful land and seen many a famous sight but there is none to equal the extrordinary intangible something of our Adyar. There is an atmosphere there that does not exist in many a church and temple and there is a Presence there that we expect to perceive in a sacred shrine. On= e can become either a God or a pitiful sinner at Adyar. It is a wonderous spo= t and it must be maintained as though it were a holy temple. Adyar Day exists to remind the members of the glorious place and to urge them to do their best to make Adyar a worthy and dignified shrine for the Masters. +++ (above is from Krotona Vol IV by Joseph E Ross) Many have noted that Krishnaji was a very keen observer and is right on target about his comments. In the 21st century, we have had comments belittling the atmosphere at Adya= r and some even suggesting that it is a symbolic place. I hope they have read the above comments by Krishnaji. Krishnaji=E2=80=99s comment about how the atmosphere affects the growth of = the individual - either up or down is very interesting. Looking at the current crisis in the TS, we still do not know all the facts about the tactical plans developed by long-term TS & ES members and residents of Adyar to engineer the defeat of the sitting president. It also may be recalled that Annie Besant, time and again mentioned that TS troubles always come from ES members. The participants in the plan to defea= t the sitting president are also very likely to be long-term members of ES. Future history, with the help of Internet, is likely to reveal the real story behind the events. MKR [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Sep 22 20:43:30 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 70576 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2009 03:43:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m4.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Sep 2009 03:43:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO qw-out-2122.google.com) (74.125.92.25) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Sep 2009 03:43:24 -0000 X-Received: by qw-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 9so123507qwb.61 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 2009 20:42:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.68.7 with SMTP id t7mr764370qci.83.1253677344228; Tue, 22 Sep 2009 20:42:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 22:42:24 -0500 Message-ID: To: theos-talk X-Originating-IP: 74.125.92.25 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Some comments on how Internet is used by theosophists X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=k29pMYlspx4d2YRaSSex9NOp5vVr0LGJnWUvlQNA49hkHhMmnYo X-Yahoo-Profile: ramadoss226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52889 I recently came upon a very interesting letter sent by Annie Besant to ever= y member of ES in June 1923. In it, she states: Anyone in the ES who takes part in any movement in the TS which tends to cause trouble or stir up unfriendly feelings towards any member of the TS, will be expelled from the School as soon as the fact comes to my notice; I shall accept no excuse as to good intentions. Anyone who wants to attack another member, feeling it to be his duty, must resign from the School before making such attack. (pp. 53; Krotona Vol IV by Joseph Ross) In the 21st century, with the advent of Internet, we have seen some interesting pattern of action from theosophists to hide their hand from their actions. With Besant's statement as the backdrop, let us look at them. 1. A pattern of keeping silent, while surrogates do the work of making statements or raising issues with no substantive factual evidence. 2. Use others as a front and distribute statements, which they themselve= s dare not to make. Those who end up as fronts feel good because they are mad= e to appear scholarly, important and smart to the public. 3. A pattern of using pseudonyms to hide their real identity as well as avoid taking personal responsibility. Once the pseudonym users are questioned further about their identity, they get cold feet and disappear. These pseudonym users may be acting on their own and/or acting as cat=E2=80= =99s paws of their controllers. 4. Use Wiki as a shield to protect anonymity. Post a statement or a comment on Wiki and extract it to distribute it and then go and delete it from Wiki. Wiki has open access for editing and also allows anonymity of th= e editors. To the gullible, this may appear as a legit statement of facts. Another issue we have seen is that long term leaders, members and elders keep silent perhaps because of the political and other consequences of speaking their minds publicly. (Some times, it takes a great courage and risk to speak the Truth. Many in the past have given their lives to speak truth.) In today's TS, this may be as serious as losing their comfortable room and board. So when there are serious issues and problems, such as those we have seen i= n the recent past, it falls on the lap of the ordinary novice members to wake up and speak up. Whatever anyone thinks of the above issues, one thing is for sure. But for the Internet and a few dedicated ordinary members, TS today would be far different from what it is now and perhaps much dismembered. MKR [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From professorjaya@yahoo.com Tue Sep 22 21:17:46 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: professorjaya@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 64245 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2009 04:17:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Sep 2009 04:17:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web65509.mail.ac4.yahoo.com) (76.13.9.53) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Sep 2009 04:17:41 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 97695 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Sep 2009 04:16:37 -0000 Message-ID: <71659.97576.qm@web65509.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 9iNji2kVM1llwxnob2SdamunFCJ.EDERFjabLnIri8mL_nrvqjUaJrr5Umtq8KiI.kt.T.wvNCLJKr9ir0ML9NTm7CMNsvFGEynYYB6CajHdYoR7nrxfXDkPBa_KW6w5sYsqtB2LfkghiAEdUk1EZ7x2sDp8KS.O7bJxzgi4UGF4MTnji1CiaCLOJW.ltk4.hk21Mi0EBcnSYlx3rt3xlyuByF2i.ycpkf_TUYq51ixLIdMmp9QHCnSZqn31GRhGXLx6PUFmBC3uZ_e2su1xNJaZp5Aqdu1SFbcKOtZkCIcJp0MJyI2aBNyNw96HiYszkATA8oR67YMcDNzXjYyXV3aLYAnm95DivsikIB1.VvMvBDxAhgE6kaGfbEMQzeiDymrrIsc3bP1JeIffXA-- X-Received: from [198.188.96.4] by web65509.mail.ac4.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:16:36 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/7.0.14 YahooMailWebService/0.7.347.2 Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:16:36 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 76.13.9.53 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Jayananda Hiranandani Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFRoZW9zLVdvcmxkIEtyaXNobmFtdXJ0aeKAmXMgQ29tbWVudHMgb24g?= =?utf-8?B?QWR5YXI=?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=136023466; y=Z_Hwbp6RnKCEj4jfdFfA05dkIF0UhQqmnCQFqO4tl1FhARL6NBE9Bw X-Yahoo-Profile: professorjaya Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52890 Krishnaji died on Adyar Day, 17th February 1986. --- On Tue, 9/22/09, MKR wrote: From: MKR Subject: Theos-World Krishnamurti=E2=80=99s Comments on Adyar To: "theos-talk" Date: Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 4:39 PM =C2=A0=20 Krishnamurti=E2=80=99s Comments on Adyar On Jan 7, 1924, Jiddu Krishnamurti wrote to the members of TS: +++ It is essential for the individual member and for the Society that Adyar, a= s a great spiritual center, should be maintained worthy and dignified. The importance of this is so obvious that few can doubt it. Adyar is and always has been, a spiritual oasis to which the weary traveller looks for comfort and repose. Though it may not be the previlege of each member in the Society, to go there from the world of wilderness, yet the mere existence o= f such a center give hope and encouragement. I have visited many a wonderful land and seen many a famous sight but there is none to equal the extrordinary intangible something of our Adyar. There is an atmosphere there that does not exist in many a church and temple and there is a Presence there that we expect to perceive in a sacred shrine. On= e can become either a God or a pitiful sinner at Adyar. It is a wonderous spo= t and it must be maintained as though it were a holy temple. Adyar Day exists to remind the members of the glorious place and to urge them to do their best to make Adyar a worthy and dignified shrine for the Masters. +++ (above is from Krotona Vol IV by Joseph E Ross) Many have noted that Krishnaji was a very keen observer and is right on target about his comments. In the 21st century, we have had comments belittling the atmosphere at Adya= r and some even suggesting that it is a symbolic place. I hope they have read the above comments by Krishnaji. Krishnaji=E2=80=99s comment about how the atmosphere affects the growth of = the individual - either up or down is very interesting. Looking at the current crisis in the TS, we still do not know all the facts about the tactical plans developed by long-term TS & ES members and residents of Adyar to engineer the defeat of the sitting president. It also may be recalled that Annie Besant, time and again mentioned that TS troubles always come from ES members. The participants in the plan to defea= t the sitting president are also very likely to be long-term members of ES. Future history, with the help of Internet, is likely to reveal the real story behind the events. MKR [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20=20=20=20=20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Tue Sep 22 21:36:12 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 76196 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2009 04:36:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Sep 2009 04:36:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-da03.mx.aol.com) (205.188.105.145) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Sep 2009 04:36:10 -0000 X-Received: from imo-da03.mx.aol.com (imo-da03.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.201]) by imr-da03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n8N4a0UT013709 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 2009 00:36:00 -0400 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-da03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.5.) id r.c46.625ff1e7 (37557) for ; Wed, 23 Sep 2009 00:35:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from smtprly-dc01.mx.aol.com (smtprly-dc01.mx.aol.com [205.188.170.1]) by cia-mb03.mx.aol.com (v125.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMB036-d1c04ab9a5a883; Wed, 23 Sep 2009 00:35:55 -0400 X-Received: from webmail-m026 (webmail-m026.sim.aol.com [64.12.101.208]) by smtprly-dc01.mx.aol.com (v125.7) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYDC011-d1c04ab9a5a883; Wed, 23 Sep 2009 00:35:52 -0400 References: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 00:35:52 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.228.192.39 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 28200-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.228.192.39 by webmail-m026.sysops.aol.com (64.12.101.208) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 23 Sep 2009 00:35:52 -0400 Message-Id: <8CC0A1E777BB89D-5AA4-E6D8@webmail-m026.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Originating-IP: 205.188.105.145 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: charles cosimano Subject: Re: Theos-World Some comments on how Internet is used by theosophists X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=LEFGSIEZjAJ3dhkM05em1lZt_8B7NBPQSBUO2PGzlh6DuvhoZA X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52891 I've long come to the conclusion that the TS would have been much better o= ff if a lot of people in the 1910s-1920s had been dismembered. Chuck the Heretic =20 http://www.charlescosimano.com =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: MKR To: theos-talk Sent: Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:42 pm Subject: Theos-World Some comments on how Internet is used by theosophists =20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 I recently came upon a very interesting letter sent by Annie Besant to ever= y member of ES in June 1923. In it, she states: Anyone in the ES who takes part in any movement in the TS which tends to cause trouble or stir up unfriendly feelings towards any member of the TS, will be expelled from the School as soon as the fact comes to my notice; I shall accept no excuse as to good intentions. Anyone who wants to attack another member, feeling it to be his duty, must resign from the School before making such attack. (pp. 53; Krotona Vol IV by Joseph Ross) In the 21st century, with the advent of Internet, we have seen some interesting pattern of action from theosophists to hide their hand from their actions. With Besant's statement as the backdrop, let us look at them. 1. A pattern of keeping silent, while surrogates do the work of making statements or raising issues with no substantive factual evidence. 2. Use othe rs as a front and distribute statements, which they themselves dare not to make. Those who end up as fronts feel good because they are mad= e to appear scholarly, important and smart to the public. 3. A pattern of using pseudonyms to hide their real identity as well as avoid taking personal responsibility. Once the pseudonym users are questioned further about their identity, they get cold feet and disappear. These pseudonym users may be acting on their own and/or acting as cat=E2=80= =99s paws of their controllers. 4. Use Wiki as a shield to protect anonymity. Post a statement or a comment on Wiki and extract it to distribute it and then go and delete it from Wiki. Wiki has open access for editing and also allows anonymity of th= e editors. To the gullible, this may appear as a legit statement of facts. Another issue we have seen is that long term leaders, members and elders keep silent perhaps because of the political and other consequences of speaking their minds publicly. (Some times, it takes a great courage and risk to speak the Truth. Many in the past have given their lives to speak truth.) In today's TS, this may be as serious as losing their comfortable room and board. So when there are serious issues and problems, such as those we have seen i= n the recent past, it falls on the lap of the ordinary novice members to wake up and speak up. Whatever anyone thinks of the above issues, one thing is for sure. But for= =3D0 A the Internet and a few dedicated ordinary members, TS today would be far different from what it is now and perhaps much dismembered. MKR [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20 =20=20=20=20 =20=20 =20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20 =20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From rialto9000@yahoo.com Wed Sep 23 02:57:03 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: rialto9000@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 56878 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2009 09:56:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Sep 2009 09:56:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n12a.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (209.191.125.177) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Sep 2009 09:56:57 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.200.221] by n12.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Sep 2009 09:56:33 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.201.251] by t9.bullet.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Sep 2009 09:56:33 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp412.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Sep 2009 09:56:33 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 946964.17503.bm@omp412.mail.mud.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 76663 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Sep 2009 09:56:33 -0000 Message-ID: <459133.76256.qm@web111602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: EgVOeyUVM1mD9.7jXivCK8Z3cI7UZmfn_oIcHcfJ0Z59sot0t6idJd7xdt7PWLpAVU4hqKjYDOW32t750NuWvr2ismfBN2GFHupnDbqqR6F0sTQ.LGcGsWJ3L5cmfEyY2DZ51lcroarg8R3IBQbD_dsSKP1uW_9icgFYqtm6LVAfHRH4azZmxu93gsdTtMOVIobnp6Rp.eb9iBQ0.XU- X-Received: from [74.64.75.53] by web111602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 23 Sep 2009 02:56:33 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/7.0.14 YahooMailWebService/0.7.347.2 Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 02:56:33 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 209.191.125.177 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rialto Maldonado Subject: ts viewpoint X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=406647630; y=m2QzfN_1tG6sIrbeB0elXJdULHO100Y3HMA3F8hade1V4WNKBA X-Yahoo-Profile: rialto9000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52892 I read the comments of chrishnamurti.Every epoch of the ts has its view pio= nts and =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 motivations alike.I know many people in= the ts history =A0dept and each epoch =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0evolves and changes to each challenge each epoch presents . i th= ink your being =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 hard on our forbears.The= tides of destiny can,t be predicted with =A0exactitudes but =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0the ts was bourne out the age of empire and raj = ..Now we live in a world where the =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 empire i= s fading, and co creation the power too,is =A0the key to building a new age= . =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 the power over is gone and =A0a new c= ommonwealth globally is emerging based on =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0co creation . =20=20=20=20=20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Wed Sep 23 05:03:22 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 41989 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2009 12:03:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Sep 2009 12:03:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO qw-out-1920.google.com) (74.125.92.148) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Sep 2009 12:03:16 -0000 X-Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 5so171130qwc.8 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 2009 05:02:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.53.208 with SMTP id n16mr799714qcg.90.1253707333328; Wed, 23 Sep 2009 05:02:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <459133.76256.qm@web111602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <459133.76256.qm@web111602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 07:02:13 -0500 Message-ID: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 74.125.92.148 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World ts viewpoint X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=m0G9S_znUiG_WXh8z0MsmXftaodyuGQbzwl0YM5hhS4Dp0y3FPM X-Yahoo-Profile: ramadoss226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52893 Now we have Internet and we can carry on theosophy as we are doing every day. MKR On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 4:56 AM, Rialto Maldonado wrote: > > > I read the comments of chrishnamurti.Every epoch of the ts has its view > pionts and motivations alike.I know many people in the ts > history dept and each epoch evolves and changes to > each challenge each epoch presents . i think your being > hard on our forbears.The tides of destiny can,t be predicted with > exactitudes but the ts was bourne out the age of empire > and raj ..Now we live in a world where the empire is fading, > and co creation the power too,is the key to building a new age. > the power over is gone and a new commonwealth globally is emerging > based on co creation . > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Wed Sep 23 16:20:53 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60122 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2009 23:20:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Sep 2009 23:20:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52104.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.107) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Sep 2009 23:20:46 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 72514 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Sep 2009 23:19:46 -0000 Message-ID: <827359.71515.qm@web52104.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: y_d73QYVM1lYyQKusH7H33cXOd_vZacfBrDkC0qiN6DV2WyW0EprJfzXTCZEei5RuFPiCQSaxDw4Wb4fJsqnnjKafa8gIKzxRfcnUXJETEh0uqyQzPKnDonb8MrL24qRJ4XpRPFtn4GDZCmiBkx.6CU6009s6onz6GhhVWZkXnZ.EwT7C4e6wfjTGHeoXkbcWcPdmCLHEuQLgjUdcpDso60c9_8gvtSaeOE8zVl5x_N1sMsiPSiWJauIUW9QRrWYM9l6E2tAIC_iFyGOO_vEWSBxX5bzRniT2Brn5KNmhWoJgFA8fK6fTD1zZrUrCXMLJBO5kkBAb5CytEea5.HDaaEffSw- X-Received: from [122.108.22.41] by web52104.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 23 Sep 2009 16:19:46 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/157.18 YahooMailWebService/0.7.347.2 References: Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 16:19:46 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.107 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Some comments on how Internet is used by theosophists X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=nFniaGfr7mGGmaU8v1ipV-572vMTP8HayzVEiXeIMGwYsVvQGw X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52894 yeah well,=C2=A0 by imposing her theosophical ideas she in effect was attac= king HPB - it seemed she ruled with an iron rod when the iron rod was put i= nto her hands? Cass > >From: MKR >To: theos-talk >Sent: Wednesday, 23 September, 2009 1:42:24 PM >Subject: Theos-World Some comments on how Internet is used by theosophists > >=C2=A0=20 >I recently came upon a very interesting letter sent by Annie Besant to eve= ry >member of ES in June 1923. In it, she states: > >Anyone in the ES who takes part in any movement in the TS which tends to >cause trouble or stir up unfriendly feelings towards any member of the TS, >will be expelled from the School as soon as the fact comes to my notice; I >shall accept no excuse as to good intentions. Anyone who wants to attack >another member, feeling it to be his duty, must resign from the School >before making such attack. > >(pp. 53; Krotona Vol IV by Joseph Ross) > >In the 21st century, with the advent of Internet, we have seen some >interesting pattern of action from theosophists to hide their hand from >their actions. With Besant's statement as the backdrop, let us look at >them. > >1. A pattern of keeping silent, while surrogates do the work of making >statements or raising issues with no substantive factual evidence. >2. Use others as a front and distribute statements, which they themselves >dare not to make. Those who end up as fronts feel good because they are ma= de >to appear scholarly, important and smart to the public. >3. A pattern of using pseudonyms to hide their real identity as well as >avoid taking personal responsibility. Once the pseudonym users are >questioned further about their identity, they get cold feet and disappear. >These pseudonym users may be acting on their own and/or acting as cat=E2= =80=99s paws >of their controllers. >4. Use Wiki as a shield to protect anonymity. Post a statement or a >comment on Wiki and extract it to distribute it and then go and delete it >from Wiki. Wiki has open access for editing and also allows anonymity of t= he >editors. To the gullible, this may appear as a legit statement of facts. > >Another issue we have seen is that long term leaders, members and elders >keep silent perhaps because of the political and other consequences of >speaking their minds publicly. (Some times, it takes a great courage and >risk to speak the Truth. Many in the past have given their lives to speak >truth.) In today's TS, this may be as serious as losing their comfortable >room and board. > >So when there are serious issues and problems, such as those we have seen = in >the recent past, it falls on the lap of the ordinary novice members to wak= e >up and speak up. > >Whatever anyone thinks of the above issues, one thing is for sure. But for >the Internet and a few dedicated ordinary members, TS today would be far >different from what it is now and perhaps much dismembered. > >MKR > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > _____________________________________________________________________= _____________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Wed Sep 23 16:40:15 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 9151 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2009 23:40:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Sep 2009 23:40:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-da04.mx.aol.com) (205.188.105.146) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Sep 2009 23:40:09 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (imo-ma02.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.137]) by imr-da04.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n8NNdFXM017272 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 2009 19:39:15 -0400 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.5.) id r.cbe.48a3e66b (41812) for ; Wed, 23 Sep 2009 19:39:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 19:39:12 EDT To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 9.1 sub 5000 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Originating-IP: 205.188.105.146 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Some comments on how Internet is used by theosophists X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=zCodJ8WrHWY9wzNpJez9kVJXOPllHR1O3uYU54n4o6m_19rASA X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52895 But it was the Theosophists that let her get away with it. =20 Chuck the Heretic =20 _www.charlescosimano.com=20=20 =20 In a message dated 9/23/2009 6:21:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time,=20=20 silva_cass@yahoo.com writes: =20 =20 =20 yeah well, by imposing her theosophical ideas she in effect was attacking= =20 HPB - it seemed she ruled with an iron rod when the iron rod was put into= =20 her hands? Cass > >From: MKR < _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _mkr777@gmail.mkr_=20 (mailto:mkr777@gmail.com) _> >To: theos-talk <_ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/)=20 _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) > >Sent: Wednesday, 23 September, 2009 1:42:24 PM >Subject: Theos-World Some comments on how Internet is used by theosophist= s > >=20=20 >I recently came upon a very interesting letter sent by Annie Besant to=20 every >member of ES in June 1923. In it, she states: > >Anyone in the ES who takes part in any movement in the TS which tends to >cause trouble or stir up unfriendly feelings towards any member of the TS= , >will be expelled from the School as soon as the fact comes to my notice; = I >shall accept no excuse as to good intentions. Anyone who wants to attack >another member, feeling it to be his duty, must resign from the School >before making such attack. > >(pp. 53; Krotona Vol IV by Joseph Ross) > >In the 21st century, with the advent of Internet, we have seen some >interesting pattern of action from theosophists to hide their hand from >their actions. With Besant's statement as the backdrop, let us look at >them. > >1. A pattern of keeping silent, while surrogates do the work of making >statements or raising issues with no substantive factual evidence. >2. Use others as a front and distribute statements, which they themselves >dare not to make. Those who end up as fronts feel good because they are=20 made >to appear scholarly, important and smart to the public. >3. A pattern of using pseudonyms to hide their real identity as well as >avoid taking personal responsibility. Once the pseudonym users are >questioned further about their identity, they get cold feet and disappear= . >These pseudonym users may be acting on their own and/or acting as cat=E2= =80=99s=20 paws >of their controllers. >4. Use Wiki as a shield to protect anonymity. Post a statement or a >comment on Wiki and extract it to distribute it and then go and delete it >from Wiki. Wiki has open access for editing and also allows anonymity of = =20 the >editors. To the gullible, this may appear as a legit statement of facts. > >Another issue we have seen is that long term leaders, members and elders >keep silent perhaps because of the political an_d other consequences of >speaking their minds publicly. (Some times, it takes a great courage and >risk to speak the Truth. Many in the past have given their lives to speak >truth.) In today's TS, this may be as serious as losing their comfortable >room and board. > >So when there are serious issues and problems, such as those we have seen= =20 in >the recent past, it falls on the lap of the ordinary novice members to=20 wake >up and speak up. > >Whatever anyone thinks of the above issues, one thing is for sure. But fo= r >the Internet and a few dedicated ordinary members, TS today would be far >different from what it is now and perhaps much dismembered. > >MKR > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > __________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/)=20 _http://au.overview.http://au.ohttp_ (http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/) _ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/)=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Wed Sep 23 18:49:11 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 9931 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2009 01:49:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m4.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Sep 2009 01:49:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f179.google.com) (209.85.221.179) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Sep 2009 01:49:05 -0000 X-Received: by qyk9 with SMTP id 9so1135380qyk.30 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 2009 18:49:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.29.148 with SMTP id q20mr1346763qcc.51.1253756943762; Wed, 23 Sep 2009 18:49:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <827359.71515.qm@web52104.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <827359.71515.qm@web52104.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 20:49:03 -0500 Message-ID: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 209.85.221.179 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Some comments on how Internet is used by theosophists X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=o1jwrZFEFaUkJP4Z5M8o6LF1PU3fHNh4TYyCiyl44N4UytKg6yE X-Yahoo-Profile: ramadoss226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52896 She was a very charismatic person and one with a very high personal integrity. She was very highly respected both inside and outside the TS. The rules she was mentioning apply only to those who are members of ES. TS members were/are quite free to vent their views without fear of retaliation= . Even when action is to be taken against an individual member, usually it seems to be done by smooth marginalization. Have we not seen it in the case of the member who ran against Dorothy Abbenhouse for the top job in the US who happened to be not a native born son. May be other participants who know more details want to share the details about the sad episode in the history of TSA. mkr There is no religion higher than truth On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Cass Silva wrote: > > > yeah well, by imposing her theosophical ideas she in effect was attackin= g > HPB - it seemed she ruled with an iron rod when the iron rod was put into > her hands? > > Cass > > > > > >From: MKR > > >To: theos-talk > > > >Sent: Wednesday, 23 September, 2009 1:42:24 PM > >Subject: Theos-World Some comments on how Internet is used by theosophis= ts > > > > > >I recently came upon a very interesting letter sent by Annie Besant to > every > >member of ES in June 1923. In it, she states: > > > >Anyone in the ES who takes part in any movement in the TS which tends to > >cause trouble or stir up unfriendly feelings towards any member of the T= S, > >will be expelled from the School as soon as the fact comes to my notice;= I > >shall accept no excuse as to good intentions. Anyone who wants to attack > >another member, feeling it to be his duty, must resign from the School > >before making such attack. > > > >(pp. 53; Krotona Vol IV by Joseph Ross) > > > >In the 21st century, with the advent of Internet, we have seen some > >interesting pattern of action from theosophists to hide their hand from > >their actions. With Besant's statement as the backdrop, let us look at > >them. > > > >1. A pattern of keeping silent, while surrogates do the work of making > >statements or raising issues with no substantive factual evidence. > >2. Use others as a front and distribute statements, which they themselve= s > >dare not to make. Those who end up as fronts feel good because they are > made > >to appear scholarly, important and smart to the public. > >3. A pattern of using pseudonyms to hide their real identity as well as > >avoid taking personal responsibility. Once the pseudonym users are > >questioned further about their identity, they get cold feet and disappea= r. > >These pseudonym users may be acting on their own and/or acting as cat=E2= =80=99s > paws > >of their controllers. > >4. Use Wiki as a shield to protect anonymity. Post a statement or a > >comment on Wiki and extract it to distribute it and then go and delete i= t > >from Wiki. Wiki has open access for editing and also allows anonymity of > the > >editors. To the gullible, this may appear as a legit statement of facts. > > > >Another issue we have seen is that long term leaders, members and elders > >keep silent perhaps because of the political and other consequences of > >speaking their minds publicly. (Some times, it takes a great courage and > >risk to speak the Truth. Many in the past have given their lives to spea= k > >truth.) In today's TS, this may be as serious as losing their comfortabl= e > >room and board. > > > >So when there are serious issues and problems, such as those we have see= n > in > >the recent past, it falls on the lap of the ordinary novice members to > wake > >up and speak up. > > > >Whatever anyone thinks of the above issues, one thing is for sure. But f= or > >the Internet and a few dedicated ordinary members, TS today would be far > >different from what it is now and perhaps much dismembered. > > > >MKR > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. > Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >=20=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Wed Sep 23 18:57:45 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 8770 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2009 01:57:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Sep 2009 01:57:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.104) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Sep 2009 01:57:41 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 93101 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Sep 2009 01:57:06 -0000 Message-ID: <435426.93051.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: hDsnrwUVM1nGNYAc.4WpLWB_qiLzYiQnqpKAwM7bX4iFwjOoqtSIu3WaYlmDpfloz3llQygCF_82Sql2cBn5qQjl4tzdGCXcTc9._MQHs2tG6dISLUAsXuA1Pte3r.8tIF6jqPSGc9wgnEMHXLH7h.aE1RFqn5a7f031aH5f7fazaeNxUq8EEZ9NNG6vNwO9c3zM0o5m_GSHB.weXHqK5xxpGjAFopsmj1vk2K1Pw5KAvZwynqfI1aKFA45HXkvOx9HvJj.UgAsOnbJ8U0LKtTStFPvNZ44nTRpVOx2D6YUz4gBwValozFzHvCk5JhDClOvcjrFhdkAhF3M- X-Received: from [122.108.22.41] by web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 23 Sep 2009 18:57:06 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/157.18 YahooMailWebService/0.7.347.2 References: <827359.71515.qm@web52104.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 18:57:06 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.104 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Some comments on how Internet is used by theosophists X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=xLJd4iOrvGqhcXab9JJDAKKBfhzuyCG8CyCQ-4Tkkc-JMDU9gA X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52897 I don't disagree with you on her charming personality.=C2=A0 Obviously ther= e was dissention in the ES at the time otherwise this decree would not have= been aired.=C2=A0 The ES supposedly is the creme de la creme of theosophis= ts yet they needed to be warned?=C2=A0=C2=A0=20 Don't like the idea of marginalization - sounds like political correctness = for isolation then excommunication? Cass > >From: MKR >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Thursday, 24 September, 2009 11:49:03 AM >Subject: Re: Theos-World Some comments on how Internet is used by theosoph= ists > >=C2=A0=20 >She was a very charismatic person and one with a very high personal >integrity. She was very highly respected both inside and outside the TS. > >The rules she was mentioning apply only to those who are members of ES. TS >members were/are quite free to vent their views without fear of retaliatio= n. > >Even when action is to be taken against an individual member, usually it >seems to be done by smooth marginalization. > >Have we not seen it in the case of the member who ran against Dorothy >Abbenhouse for the top job in the US who happened to be not a native born >son. > >May be other participants who know more details want to share the details >about the sad episode in the history of TSA. > >mkr > >There is no religion higher than truth > >On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Cass Silva wrote: > >> >> >> yeah well, by imposing her theosophical ideas she in effect was attackin= g >> HPB - it seemed she ruled with an iron rod when the iron rod was put int= o >> her hands? >> >> Cass >> >> >> > >> >From: MKR > >> >To: theos-talk >> > >> >Sent: Wednesday, 23 September, 2009 1:42:24 PM >> >Subject: Theos-World Some comments on how Internet is used by theosophi= sts >> > >> > >> >I recently came upon a very interesting letter sent by Annie Besant to >> every >> >member of ES in June 1923. In it, she states: >> > >> >Anyone in the ES who takes part in any movement in the TS which tends t= o >> >cause trouble or stir up unfriendly feelings towards any member of the = TS, >> >will be expelled from the School as soon as the fact comes to my notice= ; I >> >shall accept no excuse as to good intentions. Anyone who wants to attac= k >> >another member, feeling it to be his duty, must resign from the School >> >before making such attack. >> > >> >(pp. 53; Krotona Vol IV by Joseph Ross) >> > >> >In the 21st century, with the advent of Internet, we have seen some >> >interesting pattern of action from theosophists to hide their hand from >> >their actions. With Besant's statement as the backdrop, let us look at >> >them. >> > >> >1. A pattern of keeping silent, while surrogates do the work of making >> >statements or raising issues with no substantive factual evidence. >> >2. Use others as a front and distribute statements, which they themselv= es >> >dare not to make. Those who end up as fronts feel good because they are >> made >> >to appear scholarly, important and smart to the public. >> >3. A pattern of using pseudonyms to hide their real identity as well as >> >avoid taking personal responsibility. Once the pseudonym users are >> >questioned further about their identity, they get cold feet and disappe= ar. >> >These pseudonym users may be acting on their own and/or acting as cat= =E2=80=99s >> paws >> >of their controllers. >> >4. Use Wiki as a shield to protect anonymity. Post a statement or a >> >comment on Wiki and extract it to distribute it and then go and delete = it >> >from Wiki. Wiki has open access for editing and also allows anonymity o= f >> the >> >editors. To the gullible, this may appear as a legit statement of facts= . >> > >> >Another issue we have seen is that long term leaders, members and elder= s >> >keep silent perhaps because of the political and other consequences of >> >speaking their minds publicly. (Some times, it takes a great courage an= d >> >risk to speak the Truth. Many in the past have given their lives to spe= ak >> >truth.) In today's TS, this may be as serious as losing their comfortab= le >> >room and board. >> > >> >So when there are serious issues and problems, such as those we have se= en >> in >> >the recent past, it falls on the lap of the ordinary novice members to >> wake >> >up and speak up. >> > >> >Whatever anyone thinks of the above issues, one thing is for sure. But = for >> >the Internet and a few dedicated ordinary members, TS today would be fa= r >> >different from what it is now and perhaps much dismembered. >> > >> >MKR >> > >> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > >> > >> > >> >> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ >> Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. >> Learn more: http://au.overview. mail.yahoo. com/ >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >>=20 >> > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > _____________________________________________________________________= _____________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Wed Sep 23 20:23:50 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 92036 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2009 03:23:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Sep 2009 03:23:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f186.google.com) (209.85.221.186) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Sep 2009 03:23:44 -0000 X-Received: by qyk16 with SMTP id 16so1166939qyk.15 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 2009 20:23:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.29.148 with SMTP id q20mr1360676qcc.51.1253762581619; Wed, 23 Sep 2009 20:23:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <435426.93051.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <827359.71515.qm@web52104.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <435426.93051.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 22:23:01 -0500 Message-ID: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 209.85.221.186 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Some comments on how Internet is used by theosophists X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=E-so1kKCtEm4QGvfg8pZTXSJvmclmy6YPjFsTy6TB19HVjwVDEg X-Yahoo-Profile: ramadoss226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52898 This problems within ES in the USA at that time was at the root of Besant's letter were mentioned above. Some of the details are in the recen= t book on Krotona by Ross. mkr On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 8:57 PM, Cass Silva wrote: > > > I don't disagree with you on her charming personality. Obviously there w= as > dissention in the ES at the time otherwise this decree would not have bee= n > aired. The ES supposedly is the creme de la creme of theosophists yet th= ey > needed to be warned? > > Don't like the idea of marginalization - sounds like political correctnes= s > for isolation then excommunication? > > > Cass > > > > >From: MKR > > >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > >Sent: Thursday, 24 September, 2009 11:49:03 AM > >Subject: Re: Theos-World Some comments on how Internet is used by > theosophists > > > > > >She was a very charismatic person and one with a very high personal > >integrity. She was very highly respected both inside and outside the TS. > > > >The rules she was mentioning apply only to those who are members of ES. = TS > >members were/are quite free to vent their views without fear of > retaliation. > > > >Even when action is to be taken against an individual member, usually it > >seems to be done by smooth marginalization. > > > >Have we not seen it in the case of the member who ran against Dorothy > >Abbenhouse for the top job in the US who happened to be not a native bor= n > >son. > > > >May be other participants who know more details want to share the detail= s > >about the sad episode in the history of TSA. > > > >mkr > > > >There is no religion higher than truth > > > >On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Cass Silva > wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> yeah well, by imposing her theosophical ideas she in effect was > attacking > >> HPB - it seemed she ruled with an iron rod when the iron rod was put > into > >> her hands? > >> > >> Cass > >> > >> > >> > > >> >From: MKR > > >> >To: theos-talk 40yahoogroups. com> > > >> > > >> >Sent: Wednesday, 23 September, 2009 1:42:24 PM > >> >Subject: Theos-World Some comments on how Internet is used by > theosophists > >> > > >> > > >> >I recently came upon a very interesting letter sent by Annie Besant t= o > >> every > >> >member of ES in June 1923. In it, she states: > >> > > >> >Anyone in the ES who takes part in any movement in the TS which tends > to > >> >cause trouble or stir up unfriendly feelings towards any member of th= e > TS, > >> >will be expelled from the School as soon as the fact comes to my > notice; I > >> >shall accept no excuse as to good intentions. Anyone who wants to > attack > >> >another member, feeling it to be his duty, must resign from the Schoo= l > >> >before making such attack. > >> > > >> >(pp. 53; Krotona Vol IV by Joseph Ross) > >> > > >> >In the 21st century, with the advent of Internet, we have seen some > >> >interesting pattern of action from theosophists to hide their hand fr= om > >> >their actions. With Besant's statement as the backdrop, let us look a= t > >> >them. > >> > > >> >1. A pattern of keeping silent, while surrogates do the work of makin= g > >> >statements or raising issues with no substantive factual evidence. > >> >2. Use others as a front and distribute statements, which they > themselves > >> >dare not to make. Those who end up as fronts feel good because they a= re > >> made > >> >to appear scholarly, important and smart to the public. > >> >3. A pattern of using pseudonyms to hide their real identity as well = as > >> >avoid taking personal responsibility. Once the pseudonym users are > >> >questioned further about their identity, they get cold feet and > disappear. > >> >These pseudonym users may be acting on their own and/or acting as cat= =E2=80=99s > >> paws > >> >of their controllers. > >> >4. Use Wiki as a shield to protect anonymity. Post a statement or a > >> >comment on Wiki and extract it to distribute it and then go and delet= e > it > >> >from Wiki. Wiki has open access for editing and also allows anonymity > of > >> the > >> >editors. To the gullible, this may appear as a legit statement of > facts. > >> > > >> >Another issue we have seen is that long term leaders, members and > elders > >> >keep silent perhaps because of the political and other consequences o= f > >> >speaking their minds publicly. (Some times, it takes a great courage > and > >> >risk to speak the Truth. Many in the past have given their lives to > speak > >> >truth.) In today's TS, this may be as serious as losing their > comfortable > >> >room and board. > >> > > >> >So when there are serious issues and problems, such as those we have > seen > >> in > >> >the recent past, it falls on the lap of the ordinary novice members t= o > >> wake > >> >up and speak up. > >> > > >> >Whatever anyone thinks of the above issues, one thing is for sure. Bu= t > for > >> >the Internet and a few dedicated ordinary members, TS today would be > far > >> >different from what it is now and perhaps much dismembered. > >> > > >> >MKR > >> > > >> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > >> Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. > >> Learn more: http://au.overview. mail.yahoo. com/ > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > >> > >> > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. > Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >=20=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Wed Sep 23 21:35:14 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 93751 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2009 04:35:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Sep 2009 04:35:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-mb02.mx.aol.com) (64.12.207.163) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Sep 2009 04:35:06 -0000 X-Received: from imo-da02.mx.aol.com (imo-da02.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.200]) by imr-mb02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n8O4YZ9a019913 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 2009 00:34:35 -0400 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-da02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.5.) id r.c7e.39ea2380 (37168) for ; Thu, 24 Sep 2009 00:34:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from smtprly-ma03.mx.aol.com (smtprly-ma03.mx.aol.com [64.12.207.142]) by cia-ma04.mx.aol.com (v125.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMA047-5c594abaf6cee6; Thu, 24 Sep 2009 00:34:31 -0400 X-Received: from webmail-m021 (webmail-m021.sim.aol.com [64.12.183.102]) by smtprly-ma03.mx.aol.com (v125.7) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYMA037-5c594abaf6cee6; Thu, 24 Sep 2009 00:34:22 -0400 References: <827359.71515.qm@web52104.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <435426.93051.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 00:34:21 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.228.192.39 In-Reply-To: <435426.93051.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 28200-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.228.192.39 by webmail-m021.sysops.aol.com (64.12.183.102) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Thu, 24 Sep 2009 00:34:21 -0400 Message-Id: <8CC0AE76BFF8D0B-5294-1CB34@webmail-m021.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Originating-IP: 64.12.207.163 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: charles cosimano Subject: Re: Theos-World Some comments on how Internet is used by theosophists X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=RSavnHzD_eAMZOxyh-Y6v33iCpm1pvWDo2xa0OVLqMKvkOTahw X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52899 To go into detail would be to reopen wounds best left closed but I changed= sides in the Abbenhouse administration when I found out the tactics her op= ponents were using, especially after the second election.=C2=A0=C2=A0 It wa= s an evil time. Chuck the Heretic =20 http://www.charlescosimano.com =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:57 pm Subject: Re: Theos-World Some comments on how Internet is used by theosophi= sts =20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 I don't disagree with you on her charming personality.=C2=A0 Obviously ther= e was dissention in the ES at the time otherwise this decree would not have= been aired.=C2=A0 The ES supposedly is the creme de la creme of theosophis= ts yet they needed to be warned?=C2=A0=C2=A0=20 Don't like the idea of marginalization - sounds like political correctness = for isolation then excommunication? Cass > >From: MKR >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Thursday, 24 September, 2009 11:49:03 AM >Subject: Re: Theos-World Some comments on how Internet is used by theosoph= ists > >=C2=A0=20 >She was a very charismatic person and one with a very high personal >integrity. She was very highly respected both inside and outside the TS. > >The rules she was mentioning apply only to those who are members of ES. TS >members were/are quite free to vent their views without fear of retaliation. > >Even when action is to be taken against an individual member, usually it >seems to be done by smooth marginalization. > >Have we not seen it in the case of the member who ran against Dorothy >Abbenhouse for the top job in the US who happened to be not a native born >son. > >May be other participants who know more details want to share the details >about the sad episode in the history of TSA. > >mkr > >There is no religion higher than truth > >On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Cass Silva wrote: > >> >> >> yeah well, by imposing her theosophical ideas she in effect was attackin= g >> HPB - it seemed she ruled with an iron rod when the iron rod was put int= o >> her hands? >> >> Cass >> >> >> > >> >From: MKR > >> >To: theos-talk >> > >> >Sent: Wednesday, 23 September, 2009 1:42:24 PM >> >Subject: Theos-World Some comments on how Internet is used by theosophi= sts >> > >> > >> >I recently came upon a very interesting letter sent by Annie Besant to >> every >> >member of ES in June 1923. In it, she states: >> > >> >Anyone in the ES who takes part in any movement in the TS which tends t= o >> >cause trouble or stir up unfriendly feelings towards any member of the = TS, >> >will be expelled from the School as soon as the fact comes to my notice= ; I 0A>> >shall accept no excuse as to good intentions. Anyone who wants to att= ack >> >another member, feeling it to be his duty, must resign from the School >> >before making such attack. >> > >> >(pp. 53; Krotona Vol IV by Joseph Ross) >> > >> >In the 21st century, with the advent of Internet, we have seen some >> >interesting pattern of action from theosophists to hide their hand from >> >their actions. With Besant's statement as the backdrop, let us look at >> >them. >> > >> >1. A pattern of keeping silent, while surrogates do the work of making >> >statements or raising issues with no substantive factual evidence. >> >2. Use others as a front and distribute statements, which they themselv= es >> >dare not to make. Those who end up as fronts feel good because they are >> made >> >to appear scholarly, important and smart to the public. >> >3. A pattern of using pseudonyms to hide their real identity as well as >> >avoid taking personal responsibility. Once the pseudonym users are >> >questioned further about their identity, they get cold feet and disappe= ar. >> >These pseudonym users may be acting on their own and/or acting as cat= =E2=80=99s >> paws >> >of their controllers. >> >4. Use Wiki as a shield to protect anonymity. Post a statement or a >> >comment on Wiki and extract it to distribute it and then go and delete = it >> >from Wiki. Wiki has open access for editing and also allows anonymity o= f >> the >> >editors. To the=3D2 0gullible, this may appear as a legit statement of facts. >> > >> >Another issue we have seen is that long term leaders, members and elder= s >> >keep silent perhaps because of the political and other consequences of >> >speaking their minds publicly. (Some times, it takes a great courage an= d >> >risk to speak the Truth. Many in the past have given their lives to spe= ak >> >truth.) In today's TS, this may be as serious as losing their comfortab= le >> >room and board. >> > >> >So when there are serious issues and problems, such as those we have se= en >> in >> >the recent past, it falls on the lap of the ordinary novice members to >> wake >> >up and speak up. >> > >> >Whatever anyone thinks of the above issues, one thing is for sure. But = for >> >the Internet and a few dedicated ordinary members, TS today would be fa= r >> >different from what it is now and perhaps much dismembered. >> > >> >MKR >> > >> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > >> > >> > >> >> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ >> Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. >> Learn more: http://au.overview. mail.yahoo. com/ >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >>=20 >> > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > __________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http: //au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20 =20=20=20=20 =20=20 =20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20 =20=20=20 =20 =20=20=20=20 =20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Wed Sep 23 21:37:19 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 97794 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2009 04:37:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Sep 2009 04:37:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-da06.mx.aol.com) (205.188.169.203) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Sep 2009 04:37:15 -0000 X-Received: from imo-da03.mx.aol.com (imo-da03.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.201]) by imr-da06.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n8O4ajq1010650 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 2009 00:36:45 -0400 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-da03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.5.) id r.c2d.66e379c3 (43953) for ; Thu, 24 Sep 2009 00:36:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from smtprly-me02.mx.aol.com (smtprly-me02.mx.aol.com [64.12.95.103]) by cia-dd01.mx.aol.com (v125.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIADD012-b2d04abaf757224; Thu, 24 Sep 2009 00:36:40 -0400 X-Received: from webmail-m021 (webmail-m021.sim.aol.com [64.12.183.102]) by smtprly-me02.mx.aol.com (v125.7) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYME027-b2d04abaf757224; Thu, 24 Sep 2009 00:36:39 -0400 References: <827359.71515.qm@web52104.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <435426.93051.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 00:36:39 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.228.192.39 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 28200-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.228.192.39 by webmail-m021.sysops.aol.com (64.12.183.102) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Thu, 24 Sep 2009 00:36:39 -0400 Message-Id: <8CC0AE7BE0E30F2-5294-1CB5B@webmail-m021.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Originating-IP: 205.188.169.203 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: charles cosimano Subject: Re: Theos-World Some comments on how Internet is used by theosophists X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=MkMP8kjTZ0gSA6cPwI7JxxX_1GJ62fHvBkE0EyGPi73p1BlcUw X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52900 There was a time, years ago, when I considered creating a secret group in = the TS which would act to counter the ES and be a black magick study group,= just for the good, nasty fun of it.=C2=A0 But I just never quite got aroun= d to it. Chuck the Heretic =20 http://www.charlescosimano.com =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: MKR To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:23 pm Subject: Re: Theos-World Some comments on how Internet is used by theosophi= sts =20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 This problems within ES in the USA at that time was at the root of Besant's letter were mentioned above. Some of the details are in the recen= t book on Krotona by Ross. mkr On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 8:57 PM, Cass Silva wrote: > > > I don't disagree with you on her charming personality. Obviously there w= as > dissention in the ES at the time otherwise this decree would not have bee= n > aired. The ES supposedly is the creme de la creme of theosophists yet th= ey > needed to be warned? > > Don't like the idea of marginalization - sounds like political correctnes= s > for isolation then excommunication? > > > Cass > > > > >From: MKR > > >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > >Sent: Thursday, 24 September, 2009 11:49:03 AM > >Subject: Re: Theos-World Some=3D2 0comments on how Internet is used by > theosophists > > > > > >She was a very charismatic person and one with a very high personal > >integrity. She was very highly respected both inside and outside the TS. > > > >The rules she was mentioning apply only to those who are members of ES. = TS > >members were/are quite free to vent their views without fear of > retaliation. > > > >Even when action is to be taken against an individual member, usually it > >seems to be done by smooth marginalization. > > > >Have we not seen it in the case of the member who ran against Dorothy > >Abbenhouse for the top job in the US who happened to be not a native bor= n > >son. > > > >May be other participants who know more details want to share the detail= s > >about the sad episode in the history of TSA. > > > >mkr > > > >There is no religion higher than truth > > > >On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Cass Silva > wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> yeah well, by imposing her theosophical ideas she in effect was > attacking > >> HPB - it seemed she ruled with an iron rod when the iron rod was put > into > >> her hands? > >> > >> Cass > >> > >> > >> > > >> >From: MKR > > >> >To: theos-talk 40yahoogroups. com> > > >> > > >> >Sent: Wednesday, 23 September, 2009 1:42:24 PM > >> >Subject: Theos-World Some comments on how Internet is used by > theosophists > >> > > >> > > >> >I recently came upon a very interesting letter sent by Annie Besant t= o > >> every > >> >member of ES in June 1923. In it, she states: > >> > > >> >Anyone in the ES who takes part in any movement in the TS which tends > to > >> >cause trouble or stir up unfriendly feelings towards any member of th= e > TS, > >> >will be expelled from the School as soon as the fact comes to my > notice; I > >> >shall accept no excuse as to good intentions. Anyone who wants to > attack > >> >another member, feeling it to be his duty, must resign from the Schoo= l > >> >before making such attack. > >> > > >> >(pp. 53; Krotona Vol IV by Joseph Ross) > >> > > >> >In the 21st century, with the advent of Internet, we have seen some > >> >interesting pattern of action from theosophists to hide their hand fr= om > >> >their actions. With Besant's statement as the backdrop, let us look a= t > >> >them. > >> > > >> >1. A pattern of keeping silent, while surrogates do the work of makin= g > >> >statements or raising issues with no substantive factual evidence. > >> >2. Use others as a front and distribute statements, which they > themselves > >> >dare not to make. Those who end up as fronts feel good because they a= re > >> made > >> >to appear scholarly, important and smart to the public. > >> > 3. A pattern of using pseudonyms to hide their real identity as well as > >> >avoid taking personal responsibility. Once the pseudonym users are > >> >questioned further about their identity, they get cold feet and > disappear. > >> >These pseudonym users may be acting on their own and/or acting as cat= =E2=80=99s > >> paws > >> >of their controllers. > >> >4. Use Wiki as a shield to protect anonymity. Post a statement or a > >> >comment on Wiki and extract it to distribute it and then go and delet= e > it > >> >from Wiki. Wiki has open access for editing and also allows anonymity > of > >> the > >> >editors. To the gullible, this may appear as a legit statement of > facts. > >> > > >> >Another issue we have seen is that long term leaders, members and > elders > >> >keep silent perhaps because of the political and other consequences o= f > >> >speaking their minds publicly. (Some times, it takes a great courage > and > >> >risk to speak the Truth. Many in the past have given their lives to > speak > >> >truth.) In today's TS, this may be as serious as losing their > comfortable > >> >room and board. > >> > > >> >So when there are serious issues and problems, such as those we have > seen > >> in > >> >the recent past, it falls on the lap of the ordinary novice members t= o > >> wake > >> >up and speak up. > >> > > >> >Whatever anyone thinks of the above issues, one thing is for sure. But > for > >> >the Internet and a few dedicated ordinary members, TS today would be > far > >> >different from what it is now and perhaps much dismembered. > >> > > >> >MKR > >> > > >> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > >> Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. > >> Learn more: http://au.overview. mail.yahoo. com/ > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > >> > >> > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. > Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >=20=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20 =20=20=20=20 =20=20 =20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20 =20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Thu Sep 24 07:13:53 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 37468 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2009 13:51:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Sep 2009 13:51:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f174.google.com) (209.85.221.174) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Sep 2009 13:51:22 -0000 X-Received: by qyk4 with SMTP id 4so1283966qyk.33 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 2009 06:50:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.43.211 with SMTP id x19mr1535843qce.3.1253800220728; Thu, 24 Sep 2009 06:50:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8CC0AE76BFF8D0B-5294-1CB34@webmail-m021.sysops.aol.com> References: <827359.71515.qm@web52104.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <435426.93051.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <8CC0AE76BFF8D0B-5294-1CB34@webmail-m021.sysops.aol.com> Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 08:50:20 -0500 Message-ID: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 209.85.221.174 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Some comments on how Internet is used by theosophists X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=0osvvQLvfUdSgBZn7NVGBpyjEGQxr8egoKK0XKHfcAGcJRiu_-U X-Yahoo-Profile: ramadoss226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52901 Those days we did not have Internet. So the info ordinary members got were crumbs and they had no knowledge of the tactics going on. You were lucky to have been in the proximity of Wheaton, as I recall. The sorry fact is that the divisions combined with the lack of information did not help TS. I thin= k it really hurt it. I think the numbers speak for themselves. We are lucky that we have Internet today and few ordinary members who have no axes too grind are able to talk openly without fear or favor and keep members world wide informed. Transparency and democracy go hand in hand and Internet helps transparency. I am sure oldtime politicians who grew up in pre-internet environment and used the lack of transparency to hide their actions are in a state of shock and do not know how to deal with the curren= t environment. I have heard behind the scene comments that some of us are perhaps out of our mind!!! What else they can say? Now all politicians have to be always fearful of their behind the scene tactics exposed next day on Internet and probably embarrassed. No one who is unselfish and really interested in theosophy need fear because their actions would be the same whether behind the scenes or in the public. Let us keep tuned.... By the way, some more books by Ross are in the works. I expect them to thro= w interesting light on past events in TS. MKR There is no religion higher than truth. On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 11:34 PM, charles cosimano wrote= : > > > > To go into detail would be to reopen wounds best left closed but I change= d > sides in the Abbenhouse administration when I found out the tactics her > opponents were using, especially after the second election. It was an e= vil > time. > > > Chuck the Heretic > > http://www.charlescosimano.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cass Silva > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:57 pm > Subject: Re: Theos-World Some comments on how Internet is used by > theosophists > > I don't disagree with you on her charming personality. Obviously there w= as > dissention in the ES at the time otherwise this decree would not have bee= n > aired. The ES supposedly is the creme de la creme of theosophists yet th= ey > needed to be warned? > > Don't like the idea of marginalization - sounds like political correctnes= s > for isolation then excommunication? > > Cass > > > > > >From: MKR > > > >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > > >Sent: Thursday, 24 September, 2009 11:49:03 AM > > >Subject: Re: Theos-World Some comments on how Internet is used by > theosophists > > > > > > > > >She was a very charismatic person and one with a very high personal > > >integrity. She was very highly respected both inside and outside the TS. > > > > > >The rules she was mentioning apply only to those who are members of ES. = TS > > >members were/are quite free to vent their views without fear of > retaliation. > > > > > >Even when action is to be taken against an individual member, usually it > > >seems to be done by smooth marginalization. > > > > > >Have we not seen it in the case of the member who ran against Dorothy > > >Abbenhouse for the top job in the US who happened to be not a native bor= n > > >son. > > > > > >May be other participants who know more details want to share the detail= s > > >about the sad episode in the history of TSA. > > > > > >mkr > > > > > >There is no religion higher than truth > > > > > >On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Cass Silva > wrote: > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> yeah well, by imposing her theosophical ideas she in effect was > attacking > > >> HPB - it seemed she ruled with an iron rod when the iron rod was put > into > > >> her hands? > > >> > > >> Cass > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > >> >From: MKR > > > >> >To: theos-talk 40yahoogroups. com> > > >> > > > >> >Sent: Wednesday, 23 September, 2009 1:42:24 PM > > >> >Subject: Theos-World Some comments on how Internet is used by > theosophists > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >I recently came upon a very interesting letter sent by Annie Besant t= o > > >> every > > >> >member of ES in June 1923. In it, she states: > > >> > > > >> >Anyone in the ES who takes part in any movement in the TS which tends > to > > >> >cause trouble or stir up unfriendly feelings towards any member of th= e > TS, > > >> >will be expelled from the School as soon as the fact comes to my > notice; I > 0A>> >shall accept no excuse as to good intentions. Anyone who wants to > attack > > >> >another member, feeling it to be his duty, must resign from the Schoo= l > > >> >before making such attack. > > >> > > > >> >(pp. 53; Krotona Vol IV by Joseph Ross) > > >> > > > >> >In the 21st century, with the advent of Internet, we have seen some > > >> >interesting pattern of action from theosophists to hide their hand fr= om > > >> >their actions. With Besant's statement as the backdrop, let us look a= t > > >> >them. > > >> > > > >> >1. A pattern of keeping silent, while surrogates do the work of makin= g > > >> >statements or raising issues with no substantive factual evidence. > > >> >2. Use others as a front and distribute statements, which they > themselves > > >> >dare not to make. Those who end up as fronts feel good because they a= re > > >> made > > >> >to appear scholarly, important and smart to the public. > > >> >3. A pattern of using pseudonyms to hide their real identity as well = as > > >> >avoid taking personal responsibility. Once the pseudonym users are > > >> >questioned further about their identity, they get cold feet and > disappear. > > >> >These pseudonym users may be acting on their own and/or acting as cat= =E2=80=99s > > >> paws > > >> >of their controllers. > > >> >4. Use Wiki as a shield to protect anonymity. Post a statement or a > > >> >comment on Wiki and extract it to distribute it and then go and delet= e > it > > >> >from Wiki. Wiki has open access for editing and also allows anonymity > of > > >> the > > >> >editors. To the=3D2 > 0gullible, this may appear as a legit statement of facts. > > > >> > > > >> >Another issue we have seen is that long term leaders, members and > elders > > >> >keep silent perhaps because of the political and other consequences o= f > > >> >speaking their minds publicly. (Some times, it takes a great courage > and > > >> >risk to speak the Truth. Many in the past have given their lives to > speak > > >> >truth.) In today's TS, this may be as serious as losing their > comfortable > > >> >room and board. > > >> > > > >> >So when there are serious issues and problems, such as those we have > seen > > >> in > > >> >the recent past, it falls on the lap of the ordinary novice members t= o > > >> wake > > >> >up and speak up. > > >> > > > >> >Whatever anyone thinks of the above issues, one thing is for sure. Bu= t > for > > >> >the Internet and a few dedicated ordinary members, TS today would be > far > > >> >different from what it is now and perhaps much dismembered. > > >> > > > >> >MKR > > >> > > > >> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > > >> Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. > > >> Learn more: http://au.overview. mail.yahoo. com/ > > >> > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. > > Learn more: http: > //au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >=20=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From c.leest@yahoo.com Thu Sep 24 10:02:22 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: c.leest@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 90958 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2009 17:02:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Sep 2009 17:02:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n41b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.155) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Sep 2009 17:02:17 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.65.173] by n41.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Sep 2009 17:02:11 -0000 X-Received: from [98.137.34.72] by t15.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Sep 2009 17:02:11 -0000 Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:02:10 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <249961.84852.qm@web111617.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.168.155 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 83.83.50.226 From: "Christina" Subject: Re: views on theosophy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=392285399; y=C6r2rdpBmq4_vO_HPoJ7NONmZIwWNVp-9L3yf-FexMEYew X-Yahoo-Profile: c.leest X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52902 Hahahahah Dan Brown can better come to me, than both we should write about= STAR APPLES. No Joke, I realy have in my garden and this year about 120= beautiful ones VrGrChristina --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Rialto Maldonado wrote: > > I studied the forum today. Dan Browns latest book looks like another winn= er fore him. =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0I saw the last one and =A0I know il= luminati people who were not happy as portrayed as =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0villains .I know people who are freemaisons who are not happy with D= an Brown either =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 and wiate till he writes about us which= as god made little green apples he will =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0probally do. >=20 >=20 >=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > From Augoeides-222@comcast.net Thu Sep 24 17:28:34 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: augoeides-222@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 67356 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2009 00:28:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Sep 2009 00:28:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO QMTA05.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net) (76.96.30.48) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Sep 2009 00:28:29 -0000 X-Received: from OMTA20.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.87]) by QMTA05.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id klp01c0081smiN4A5oULfy; Fri, 25 Sep 2009 00:28:20 +0000 X-Received: from sz0103.ev.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.26.163]) by OMTA20.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id koUL1c0063X8bDG8goULZx; Fri, 25 Sep 2009 00:28:20 +0000 Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 00:28:20 +0000 (UTC) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <1904780197.5024291253838500011.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Zimbra 5.0.16_GA_2927.RHEL5_64 (ZimbraWebClient - FF3.0 (Win)/5.0.16_GA_2927.RHEL5_64) X-Originating-IP: 76.96.30.48 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: views on theosophy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=314500470; y=DymIzACdWsdJ9DxrsrsjyQ7lxLOhgH2YUT4dzpXSoVnoxpQI0LyhedrFSe1RPRly X-Yahoo-Profile: sessesgenbarpharanges Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52903 Christina, all, Wel lfor some contrast to Dan Brown Fictional Book here is a link: >>>http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/09/090915-lost-symbol-dan-brown-freemasons-book.html<<< Enjoy, John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christina" To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:02:10 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Theos-World Re: views on theosophy Hahahahah Dan Brown can better come to me, than both we should write about STAR APPLES. No Joke, I realy have in my garden and this year about 120 beautiful ones VrGrChristina --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com , Rialto Maldonado wrote: > > I studied the forum today. Dan Browns latest book looks like another winner fore him. I saw the last one and I know illuminati people who were not happy as portrayed as villains .I know people who are freemaisons who are not happy with Dan Brown either and wiate till he writes about us which as god made little green apples he will probally do. > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Thu Sep 24 21:55:34 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77564 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2009 04:55:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Sep 2009 04:55:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f202.google.com) (209.85.221.202) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Sep 2009 04:55:31 -0000 X-Received: by qyk40 with SMTP id 40so1829605qyk.22 for ; Thu, 24 Sep 2009 21:55:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.43.77 with SMTP id v13mr2076377qce.82.1253854530159; Thu, 24 Sep 2009 21:55:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 23:55:30 -0500 Message-ID: To: theos-talk X-Originating-IP: 209.85.221.202 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Recent trends on how theosophists are presenting themselves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=gKw47AQwDy-8aaVREsb-EAxDQjHsXEk18mg3JJQci45rbfEHkEU X-Yahoo-Profile: ramadoss226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52904 When you look at some of the modern writings and messages and articles abou= t theosophical subjects by members of the theosophical society, one notices some curious subtle attempts to impress the reader. First, you will find photos to show how impressive they look. At least if you are an actor or actress, with a handsome figure, you may want to publicise your looks to trigger their emotions! Sometimes one wonders if this is to impress or influence the reader=E2=80= =99s personal bias towards one=E2=80=99s continental origins. A famous politicia= n once mentioned that people like others who are like themselves. Next, we have seen publicising their academic accomplishments however unconnected that may be to theosophy. Frequently one finds many beating their own drums about the positions they held in the past, even when that has nothing to do with theosophy. Finally, you find mention about how long one is a member and even mention about life membership. Does all these help further the cause of theosophy o= r are they self serving. I do not know if all of the above affects a prospective member or an earnes= t student of theosophy. Or are they just make the individual=E2=80=99s ego fe= el good? There seems to be great downside to all of the above. Theosophy is for the masses; not only for the highly educated and learned. An ordinary person ma= y either be impressed or simple turned away by all of the above display. I am reminded of the dictum of Pythagoras, that don=E2=80=99t have or show = off anything that would trigger disappointment or envy of the onlooker. A very good practical advise to any theosophist. May be it is time for us to discuss how effectively we can keep a low profile on our accomplishments unrelated to theosophy or theosophical work, so that a real brotherly/sisterly feeling can be generated. This may help u= s spread the message of theosophy. MKR There is no religion higher than Truth. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From rialto9000@yahoo.com Fri Sep 25 08:43:26 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: rialto9000@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 13386 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2009 15:43:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Sep 2009 15:43:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n13.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.206.40) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Sep 2009 15:43:23 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.200.224] by n13.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Sep 2009 15:43:07 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.201.241] by t5.bullet.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Sep 2009 15:43:07 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp402.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Sep 2009 15:43:07 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 88500.83293.bm@omp402.mail.mud.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 29980 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Sep 2009 15:43:06 -0000 Message-ID: <533960.29369.qm@web111612.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: oCn2zMEVM1miqWI3Q_su71ua9YBUWJupcPOkdMJBsOg_J4Gd9W0oBY2LlrD43hG.0vNNTlHaCPVRGNvZEGEKKIxbfDz1Fle9FztR4Fjly76xJR7nPEjzWowZbI5RIyWz.gYWhL4HaEZZo_e00o5pDa.Ewn.eijHAwvBB0u3rElJPbc_.FEW8AZYs_BKvLIWmdW7AMO60_j.YF3_e3lE- X-Received: from [69.206.153.162] by web111612.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 25 Sep 2009 08:43:06 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/7.0.14 YahooMailWebService/0.7.347.2 Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 08:43:06 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 68.142.206.40 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rialto Maldonado Subject: ts view piont X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=406647630; y=5UnynhDK55hCH9HU6z_fYNx7kfruqbdYiIuH1zFYHN2LGEIkLA X-Yahoo-Profile: rialto9000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52905 TodaY I experienced a problem but i remember that chrishnamurti and hpb exp= erienced =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0problems,the recent bloggs of the forum have a = little unforgiving. We are all people =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 and o= ur founders and past leaders were all people too,This problem is of my own = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 making but i have atoned for it, =A0it give= sa me a chance to see how people in the =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0grou= p i belong too see wheaton and how we see =A0society as a whole.Nobodies = =A0perfect =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 and our leaders are not perfect. =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 =20=20=20=20=20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Fri Sep 25 16:00:30 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 61410 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2009 23:00:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Sep 2009 23:00:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f171.google.com) (209.85.221.171) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Sep 2009 23:00:27 -0000 X-Received: by qyk1 with SMTP id 1so2503616qyk.0 for ; Fri, 25 Sep 2009 15:59:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.29.148 with SMTP id q20mr673877qcc.51.1253919567206; Fri, 25 Sep 2009 15:59:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 17:59:27 -0500 Message-ID: To: theos-talk X-Originating-IP: 209.85.221.171 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Ross' Book - Krotona Vol IV - Update X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=KKF5qwQJRQRjbB_P-Wg4upKEjxHKci3YcG1fp67PsG6l4iNUhM4 X-Yahoo-Profile: ramadoss226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52906 I am still trying to read and digest the voluminous material in the book. In the meanwhile, I suspect that there may be many old-timers who are not happy to see the publication of some of the material in the book. Old timers in the TS who grew up in an atmosphere of secrecy and non-transparency does not seem to understand the very simple fact that anything you put in writing is bound to come out sooner or later. In today's Internet environment, the risk is much greater and that should make everyone very cautious in what they write or chat on Internet. This may be blessing in disguise to help organizations and people. Don't we all remember the 1900 warning that unnecessary secrecy has killed many organizations? MKR [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Augoeides-222@comcast.net Fri Sep 25 17:24:14 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: augoeides-222@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 46826 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2009 00:24:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Sep 2009 00:24:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO QMTA06.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net) (76.96.30.56) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Sep 2009 00:24:11 -0000 X-Received: from OMTA06.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.51]) by QMTA06.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id lB4f1c00L16AWCUA6CQCUe; Sat, 26 Sep 2009 00:24:12 +0000 X-Received: from sz0103.ev.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.26.163]) by OMTA06.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id lCQC1c0033X8bDG8SCQCkp; Sat, 26 Sep 2009 00:24:12 +0000 Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 00:24:12 +0000 (UTC) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <2050219046.5390981253924652220.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Zimbra 5.0.16_GA_2927.RHEL5_64 (ZimbraWebClient - FF3.0 (Win)/5.0.16_GA_2927.RHEL5_64) X-Originating-IP: 76.96.30.56 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net Subject: Re: Theos-World Ross' Book - Krotona Vol IV - Update X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=314500470; y=SLyjlCFjsqyto6Apf7OcZC3CZbcrOxOtmZm8zyX328xskF03QTkYo78hE4mPz1Ei X-Yahoo-Profile: sessesgenbarpharanges Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52907 Hmmm, which of Blavatsky's seven principles was it that the masters separated from her 7-fold economy to hold as hostage for her secrecy and silence??? Lol John ----- Original Message ----- From: "MKR" To: "theos-talk" Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 3:59:27 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Theos-World Ross' Book - Krotona Vol IV - Update I am still trying to read and digest the voluminous material in the book. In the meanwhile, I suspect that there may be many old-timers who are not happy to see the publication of some of the material in the book. Old timers in the TS who grew up in an atmosphere of secrecy and non-transparency does not seem to understand the very simple fact that anything you put in writing is bound to come out sooner or later. In today's Internet environment, the risk is much greater and that should make everyone very cautious in what they write or chat on Internet. This may be blessing in disguise to help organizations and people. Don't we all remember the 1900 warning that unnecessary secrecy has killed many organizations? MKR [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Sat Sep 26 01:01:02 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 72220 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2009 08:00:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Sep 2009 08:00:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mx03.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.13) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Sep 2009 08:00:54 -0000 X-Received: from 56342e5a.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.46.90] helo=khidr) by mx01.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1MrRxC-0007K6-2g for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 26 Sep 2009 09:44:27 +0200 Message-ID: <001601ca3e7d$33132fd0$5a2e3456@khidr> To: References: Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 09:44:38 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.13 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" Subject: Re: Theos-World Recent trends on how theosophists are presenting themselves X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=0f766i20VLHaYWSqUst8Y20a_ZSZgpCcZfL5Y0tlyUFB X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52908 Dear friends My views are: Thank you for writing your e-mail MKR. I tend to quote a few of my favorites as a response to your words... >>> The awaited Messiah and the central Krishnamurti saints <<< "People are always looking for leaders; that does not mean that this is the= time for a leader. The problems that a leader would be able to resolve hav= e not been identified. Nor does the clamor mean that those who cry out are = suitable followers. Most of the people who demand a leader seem to have som= e baby's idea of what a leader should do. The idea that a leader will walk = in and we will all recognize him and follow him and everybody will be happy= strikes me as a strangely immature atavism."=20 (Idries Shah) http://www.katinkahesselink.net/sufi/sufi-shah.html Perhaps the following from H. P. Blavatsky would still be very well to re-r= ead, so to understand that the Law of Karma was and is very important, when= promoting theosophical teachings for - the masses! ********************* 1. H. P. BLAVATSKY said: "THEOSOPHY FOR THE MASSES. ENQUIRER. And you think that Theosophy would, by stepping in, help to remov= e these evils, under the practical and adverse conditions of our modern lif= e?=20 THEOSOPHIST. Had we more money, and had not most of the Theosophists=20 to work for their daily bread, I firmly believe we could.=20 ENQUIRER. How? Do you expect that your doctrines could ever take hold of th= e uneducated masses, when they are so abstruse and difficult that well-educ= ated people can hardly understand them?=20 THEOSOPHIST. You forget one thing, which is that your much-boasted modern e= ducation is precisely that which makes it difficult for you to understand T= heosophy. Your mind is so full of intellectual subtleties and preconception= s that your natural intuition and perception of the truth cannot act. It do= es not require metaphysics or education to make a man understand the broad = truths of Karma and Reincarnation. Look at the millions of poor and uneduca= ted Buddhists and Hindoos, to whom Karma and re-incarnation are solid reali= ties, simply because their minds have never been cramped and distorted by b= eing forced into an unnatural groove. They have never had the innate human = sense of justice perverted in them by being told to believe that their sins= would be forgiven because another man had been put to death for their sake= s. And the Buddhists, note well, live up to their beliefs without a murmur = against Karma, or what they regard as a just punishment; whereas the Christ= ian populace neither lives up to its moral ideal, nor accepts its lot conte= ntedly. Hence murmuring, and dissatisfaction, and the intensity of the stru= ggle for existence in Western lands.=20 ENQUIRER. But this contentedness, which you praise so much, would do away w= ith all motive for exertion and bring progress to a stand-still.=20 THEOSOPHIST. And we, Theosophists, say that your vaunted progress and civil= ization are no better than a host of will-o'-the-wisps, flickering over a m= arsh which exhales a poisonous and deadly miasma. This, because we see self= ishness, crime, immorality, and all the evils imaginable, pouncing upon unf= ortunate mankind from this Pandora's box which you call an age of progress,= and increasing pari passu with the growth of your material civilization. A= t such a price, better the inertia and inactivity of Buddhist countries, wh= ich have arisen only as a consequence of ages of political slavery.=20 ENQUIRER. Then is all this metaphysics and mysticism with which you occupy = yourself so much, of no importance?=20 THEOSOPHIST. To the masses, who need only practical guidance and support, t= hey are not of much consequence; but for the educated, the natural leaders = of the masses, those whose modes of thought and action will sooner or later= be adopted by those masses, they are of the greatest importance. It is onl= y by means of the philosophy that an intelligent and educated man can avoid= the intellectual suicide of believing on blind faith; and it is only by as= similating the strict continuity and logical coherence of the Eastern, if n= ot esoteric, doctrines, that he can realize their truth. Conviction breeds = enthusiasm, and "Enthusiasm," says Bulwer Lytton, "is the genius of sinceri= ty, and truth accomplishes no victories without it"; while Emerson most tru= ly remarks that "every great and commanding movement in the annals of the w= orld is the triumph of enthusiasm." And what is more calculated to produce = such a feeling than a philosophy so grand, so consistent, so logical, and s= o all-embracing as our Eastern Doctrines?=20 ENQUIRER. And yet its enemies are very numerous, and every day Theosophy ac= quires new opponents.=20 THEOSOPHIST. And this is precisely that which proves its intrinsic excel-le= nce and value. People hate only the things they fear, and no one goes out o= f his way to overthrow that which neither threatens nor rises beyond medioc= rity.=20 ENQUIRER. Do you hope to impart this enthusiasm, one day, to the masses?=20 THEOSOPHIST. Why not? since history tells us that the masses adopted Buddhi= sm with enthusiasm, while, as said before, the practical effect upon them o= f this philosophy of ethics is still shown by the smallness of the percenta= ge of crime amongst Buddhist populations as compared with every other relig= ion. The chief point is, to uproot that most fertile source of all crime an= d immorality =E2=80=94 the belief that it is possible for them to escape th= e consequences of their own actions. Once teach them that greatest of all l= aws, Karma and Re-incarnation, and besides feeling in themselves the true d= ignity of human nature, they will turn from evil and eschew it as they woul= d a physical danger. " http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/aKEY.htm ********************** 2. HPB said: "There were portions of the Secret science that for incalculable ages had t= o remain concealed from the profane gaze. But this was because to impart to= the unprepared multitude secrets of such tremendous importance, was equiva= lent to giving a child a lighted candle in a powder magazine." (SD., vol. I= , p. xxxv) http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/SDVolume_I.htm ********************** 3. EH=3DElizabeth Hall=20 IS=3DIdries Shah "IS: In responsible Sufi circles, no one attempts to handle either the snee= rers or the worshippers, and they are very politely detached from the other= s.=20 EH: They are not fertile ground?=20 IS: They have something else to do first. And what they need is offered abu= ndantly elsewhere. " http://www.katinkahesselink.net/sufi/sufi-shah.html ------- M. Sufilight ----- Original Message -----=20 From: MKR=20 To: theos-talk=20 Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:55 AM Subject: Theos-World Recent trends on how theosophists are presenting the= mselves When you look at some of the modern writings and messages and articles = about theosophical subjects by members of the theosophical society, one notices some curious subtle attempts to impress the reader. First, you will find photos to show how impressive they look. At least if you are an actor or actress, with a handsome figure, you may want to publicise your looks to trigger their emotions! Sometimes one wonders if this is to impress or influence the reader=E2=80= =99s personal bias towards one=E2=80=99s continental origins. A famous politic= ian once mentioned that people like others who are like themselves. Next, we have seen publicising their academic accomplishments however unconnected that may be to theosophy. Frequently one finds many beating their own drums about the positions they held in the past, even when that has nothing to do with theosophy. Finally, you find mention about how long one is a member and even mention about life membership. Does all these help further the cause of theosophy= or are they self serving. I do not know if all of the above affects a prospective member or an earn= est student of theosophy. Or are they just make the individual=E2=80=99s ego = feel good? There seems to be great downside to all of the above. Theosophy is for th= e masses; not only for the highly educated and learned. An ordinary person = may either be impressed or simple turned away by all of the above display. I am reminded of the dictum of Pythagoras, that don=E2=80=99t have or sho= w off anything that would trigger disappointment or envy of the onlooker. A ver= y good practical advise to any theosophist. May be it is time for us to discuss how effectively we can keep a low profile on our accomplishments unrelated to theosophy or theosophical wor= k, so that a real brotherly/sisterly feeling can be generated. This may help= us spread the message of theosophy. MKR There is no religion higher than Truth. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Sat Sep 26 01:24:05 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 44513 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2009 08:20:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m5.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Sep 2009 08:20:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mx02.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.12) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Sep 2009 08:20:53 -0000 X-Received: from 56342e5a.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.46.90] helo=khidr) by mx01.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1MrS6E-0007uW-0W for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 26 Sep 2009 09:53:48 +0200 Message-ID: <005e01ca3e7e$808483d0$5a2e3456@khidr> To: Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 09:53:57 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.12 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" Subject: The TS Guru's and similar offshoots showing off... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=YG9_uEXcwQCh375_-s1nWW4TtIjU2IT9Srm46JMBi-OZ X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52909 Dear friends My views are: There seems clearly to be a growing understanding about that the Theosophical Society and similar branches claiming to follow the core teachings given by H. P. Blavatsky - have a sort of Guru (devotion with the head under the arm) problem! Now how aught one to deal with this issue? 1. One of the solutions might be very patient saying, that people - at first - need to develop their heads and hearts, through harmony. And that we will have to wait for peoples development, and that Karma has to work itself out, and that we cannot interfer much. 2. Another solution might also seek to promote and implement - theosophical - teachings on Branwashing and Psychology into the various TS branches (or offshoot branches) teachings, - while carefully blending it with the words given by H. P. Blavatsky, Ammonious Saccas, Plotinus, Master KH, Master M, and other quality theosophists. - While unmasking the Guru and non-Guru, and especially the false guru actitivies. And doing it with an eye on, what is known and what merely is assumed. Now what do you think about that? Or do you not think or care at all? 3. Another third solution might also seek to understand the below words by Idries Shah, and absorb the words while relating them to present day theosophical actitivies. EH=Elizabeth Hall IS=Idries Shah Here is a larger part of the interview.... - - - - - - "Interview with Idries Shah - by Elizabeth Hall EH: Idries Shah, you are the West's leading exponent of Sufism, that rich religious tradition growing out of the Middle East. Why, at a time when new cults are springing up, do you refuse to be a guru? You could easily become one. IS: There are a lot of reasons. But if we are talking about the teacher who has disciples, it's because I feel no need for an admiring audience to tell me how wonderful I am or to do what I say. I believe that the guru needs his disciples. If he had a sufficient outlet for his desire to be a big shot or his feeling of holiness or his wish to have others dependent on him, he wouldn't be a guru. I got all that out of my system very early and, consistent with Sufi tradition, I believe that those who don't want to teach are the ones who can and should. The West still has a vocation hang-up and has not yet discovered this. Here, the only recognized achiever is an obsessive. In the East we believe that a person who can't help doing a thing isn't necessarily the best one to do it. A compulsive cookie baker may bake very bad cookies. EH: Are you saying that a person who feels that he must engage in a certain profession is doing it because of some emotional need? IS: I think this is very often the case, and it doesn't necessarily produce the best professional. Show an ordinary person an obsessive and he will believe you have shown him a dedicated and wonderful person - provided he share his beliefs. If he doesn't, of course, he regards the one obsessed as evil. Sufism regards this as a facile and untrue posture. And if there is one consistency in the Sufi tradition, it is that man must be in the world but not of the world. There is no role for a priest-king or guru. EH: Then you have a negative opinion of all gurus. IS: Not of all. Their followers need the guru as much as the guru needs his followers. I just don't regard it as a religious operation. I take a guru to be a sort of psychotherapist. At the very best, he keeps people quiet and polarized around him and gives some sort of meaning to their lives. EH: Librium might do the same thing. IS: Yes, but that's no reason to be against it. Why shouldn't there be room for what we might call "neighborhood psychotherapy" - the community looking after its own? However, why it should be called a spiritual activity rather baffles me. EH: One can't help getting the feeling that not all gurus are trying to serve their fellowman. IS: Some are frankly phonies, and they don't try to hide it from me. They think that I am one, too, so when we meet they begin the most disturbing conversations. They want to know how I get money, how I control people, and so on. EH: They want to swap secrets. IS: That's going a little too far. But they feel safety in numbers. They actually feel there is something wrong with what they are doing, and they feel better if they talk to somebody else who is doing it. I always tell them that I think it would be much better if they gave up the guru role in their own minds and realize that they are providing a perfectly good social service. EH: How do they take to that advice? IS: Sometimes they laugh and sometimes they cry. The general impression is that one of us is wrong. Because I don't make the same kind of noises that they do, they seem to believe that either I am a lunatic or that I am starting some new kind of con. Perhaps I have found a new racket. EH: I am surprised that these gurus tell you all their secrets as freely as they do. IS: I must tell you that I have not renounced the Eastern technique of pretending to be interested in what another person is saying, even pretending to be on his side. Therefore, I am able to draw out gurus and get them to commit themselves to an extent that a Westerner, because of his conscience, could not do. The Westerner would not allow certain things to go unchallenged and would not trick, as it were, another person. So he doesn't find out the truth. Look here, it's time that somebody took the lid off the guru racket. Since I have nothing to lose, it might as well be me. With many of these gurus it comes down to an "us and them" sort of thing between the East and the West. Gurus from India used to stop by on their way to California and their attitude was generally, let's take the Westerners to the cleaners; they colonized us, now we will get money out of them. I heard this sort of thing even from people who had impeccable spiritual reputations back home in India. EH: It is an understandable human reaction to centuries of Western exploitation. IS: It's understandable, but I deny that it's a spiritual activity. What I want to say is, "Brother, you are in the revenge business, and that's a different kind of business from me." There are always groups that are willing to negotiate with me and want to use my name. On one occasion a chap in a black shirt and white tie told me, "You take Britain, but don't touch the United States, because that's ours." I had a terrible vision of Al Capone. The difference was that the guru's disciples kissed his feet. " ....... "EH: Gurus keep proliferating in the United States, always with massive followings. A 15-year-old Perfect Master can fill the Astrodome. IS: Getting the masses is the easy part. A guru can attract a crowd of a million in India, but few in a crowd take him seriously. You see, India has had gurus for thousands of years, so they are generally sophisticated about them; they take in the attitude with their mothers' milk. This culture just hasn't been inoculated against the guru. Let's turn it around. If I were fresh off a plane from India and told you that I was going to Detroit to become a wonderful automobile millionaire, you would smile at me. You know perfectly well the obstacles, the taxes, the ulcers that I face. Well, the Indian is in the same position with the automobile industry as the American with the guru. I'm not impressed by naive American reactions to gurus; if you can show me a guru who can pull off that racket in the East, then I will be surprised. EH: Before we go any farther, we'd better get down to basics and ask the obvious question. What is Sufism? IS: The most obvious question of all is for us the most difficult question. But I'll try to answer. Sufism is experience of life through a method of dealing with life and human relations. This method is based on an understanding of man, which places at one's disposal the means to organize one's relationships and one's learning systems. So instead of saying that Sufism is a body of thought in which you believe certain things and don't believe other things, we say that the Sufi experience has to be provoked in a person. Once provoked, it becomes his own property, rather as a person masters an art. EH: So ideally, for four million readers, you would have four million different explanations. IS: In fact, it wouldn't work out like that. We progress by means of Nashr, an Arabic word than means scatter technique. For example, I've published quite a number of miscellaneous books, articles, tapes and so on, which scatter many forms of this Sufi material. These 2,000 different stories cover many different tendencies in many people, and they are able to attach themselves to some aspect of it. EH: I noticed as I read that the same point would be made over and over again in a different way in a different story. In all my reading, I think the story that made the most profound impression on me was "The Water of Paradise." Afterward, I found the same point in other stories, but had I not read "The Water of Paradise" first, I might not have picked it up. IS: That is the way the process tends to work. Suppose we get a group of 20 people past the stage where they no longer expect us to give them miracles and stimulation and attention. We sit them down in a room and give them 20 or 30 stories, asking them to tell us what they see in the stories, what they like, and what the don't like. The stories first operate as a sorting out process. They sort out both the very clever people who need psychotherapy and who have come only to put you down, and the people who have come to worship." ....... "IS: In responsible Sufi circles, no one attempts to handle either the sneerers or the worshippers, and they are very politely detached from the others. EH: They are not fertile ground? IS: They have something else to do first. And what they need is offered abundantly elsewhere. " ....... "IS: There's no reason for them to bother us. Next we begin to work with people who are left. In order to do this, we must cool it. We must not have any spooky atmosphere, any strange robes or gongs or intonations. The new students generally react to the stories either as they think you would like them to react or as their background tells them they should react. Once they realize that no prizes are being given for correct answers, they begin to see that their previous conditioning determines the way they are seeing the material in the stories. So, the second use of the stories is to provide a protected situation in which people can realize the extent of the conditionings in their ordinary lives. The third use comes later, rather like when you get the oil to the surface of a well after you burn of the gases. After we have burnt off the conditioning, we start getting completely new interpretations and reactions to stories. At last, as the student becomes less emotional, we can begin to deal with the real person, not the artifact that society has made him. EH: Is this a very long process? IS: You can't predict it at all. With some people it is an instant process; with others, it takes weeks or months. Still others get fed up and quit because, like good children of the consumer society, they crave something to consume and we're not giving it to them. EH: You say that conditioning gets in the way of responses to Sufi material. But everyone is conditioned from birth, so how does one ever escape from his conditioning? IS: We can't live in the world without being conditioned. Even the control of one's bladder is conditioned. It is absurd to talk, as some do, of deconditioned or nonconditioned people. But it is possible to see why conditioning has taken place and why a person's beliefs become oversimplified. Nobody is trying to abolish conditioning, merely to describe it, to make it possible to change it, and also to see where it needs to operate, and where it does not. Some sort of secondary personality, which we call the "commanding self" takes over man when his mentation is not correctly balanced. This self, which he takes for his real one, is in fact a mixture of emotional impulses and various pieces of conditioning. As a consequence of Sufi experience, people - instead of seeing things through a filter of conditioning plus emotional reactions, a filter which constantly discards certain stimuli - can see things through some part of themselves that can only be described as not conditioned. EH: Are you saying that when one comes to an awareness that he is conditioned, that he can operate aside from it? He can say, "Why do I believe this? Well, perhaps it is because..." IS: Exactly. Then he is halfway toward being liberated from his conditioning - or at least toward keeping it under control. People who say that we must smash conditioning are themselves oversimplifying things. EH: A number of years ago an American psychologist carried out an interesting experiment. He had a device that supplied two images, one to each eye. One image was a baseball player, the other was a matador. He had a group of American and Mexican schoolteachers look thru this device. Most of the Americans saw a baseball player and most of the Mexicans saw the matador. From what you have said, I gather that Sufism might enable an American to see the matador and a Mexican to see the baseball player. IS: That is what many of the Sufi stories try to do. As a reader, you tend to identify with one of the people in the story. When he behaves unexpectedly, it gives you a bit of a jolt and forces you to see him with different eyes. EH: When one reads about Sufism, one comes upon conflicting explanations. Some people say that Sufism is pantheistic; others that it is related to theosophy. Certainly there are strains in Sufism that you can find in any of the major world religions. IS: There are many ways to talk about the religious aspects of Sufism. I'll just choose one and see where it leads. The Sufis themselves say that their religion has no history, because it is not culture bound. Although Sufism has been productive in Islam, according to Sufi tradition and scripture, Sufis existed in pre-Islamic times. The Sufis say that all religion is evolution, otherwise it wouldn't survive. They also say that all religion is capable of development up to the same point. In historical times, Sufis have worked with all recognized religions: Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Vedanta, Buddhism and so on. Sufis are in religion but not of it." ....... "EH: What is the Sufi attitude toward mysticism and the ecstatic experience? IS: Sufis are extraordinarily cautious about this. They don't allow a person to do spiritual exercises unless they are convinced that he can undergo such exercises without harm and appreciate them without distraction. Spiritual exercises are allowed only at a certain time and a certain place and with certain people. When the ecstatic exercises are taken out of context, they become a circus at best and unhinge minds at worst. EH: So the ecstatic experience has its place but only at a certain time at a certain stage of development? IS: Yes, and with certain training. The ecstatic experience is certainly not required. It is merely a way of helping man to realize his potential. They(Sufis) don't allow a person to do spiritual exercises unless they are convinced that he can undergo such exercises without harm and appreciate them without distraction. Hall: Many of the great Sufi teachers seem to regard the ecstatic experience as only a way station. Shah: Oh, yes. The ecstatic experience is absolutely the lowest from of advanced knowledge. Western biographers of the saints have made it very difficult for us by assuming that Joan of Arc and Theresa of Avila, who have had such experiences, have reached God. I am sure that this is only a misunderstanding based on faulty stories and faulty retrieval of information. Hall: Sufis also seem to take extra-sensory perception as a matter of course and as not very interesting. Shah: Not interesting at all. It is no more than a by-product. Let me give you a banal analogy. If I were training to be a runner and went out every day to run, I would get faster and faster and be able to run farther and farther with less fatigue. Now, I also find that I have a better complexion, my blood supply is better, and my digestion has improved. These things don't interest me; they are only by-products of my running. I have another objective. When people I am associated with become overwhelmed by ESP phenomena, I always insist that they stop it, because their objective is elsewhere. Hall: They are supposed to be developing their potential; not attempting to read minds or move objects around. Do you think that researchers will one day explain the physical basis of ESP or do you think it will always elude them? Shah: If I say it will elude the scientists, it will annoy the people who are able to get enormous grants for research into ESP. But I think, yes, a great deal more can be discovered providing the scientists are prepared to be good scientists. And by that I mean that they are prepared to structure their experiments successively in accordance with their discoveries. They must be ready to follow and not hew doggedly to their original working hypothesis. And they will certainly have to give up their concept of the observer being outside of the experiment, which has been their dearest pet for many years. And another thing, as we find constantly in metaphysics, people who are likely to be able to understand and develop capacities for ESP are more likely to be found among people who are not interested in the subject. Hall: Is that because disinterest is necessary to approach the subject properly? Shah: Something like that. Being disinterested, you can approach ESP more coolly and calmly. The Sufis say: "You will be able to exercise these supernatural powers when you can put out your hand and get a wild dove to land on it." But the other reason why the people who are fascinated by ESP or metaphysics or magic are the last who should study it is that they are interested in it for the wrong reasons. It may be compensation. They are not equipped to study ESP. They are equipped for something else: fear, greed, hate, or love of humanity. Hall: Often they have a desperate wish to prove that ESP is either true or false. Shah: Yes that's what I call heroism. But it's not professionalism and that's what the job calls for. Hall: You've also written a couple of books on magic: Oriental Magic and The Secret Lore of Magic, an investigation of Western magic. Today there's an upsurge of interest in astrology and witchcraft and magic. You must have speculated somewhat about magic in those books. Shah: Very little. The main purpose of my books on magic was to make this material available to the general reader. For too long people believed that there were secret books, hidden places, and amazing things. They held onto this information as something to frighten themselves with. So the first purpose was information. This is the magic of East and West. That's all. There is no more. The second purpose of those books was to show that there do seem to be forces, some of which are either rationalized by this magic or may be developed from it, which do not come within customary physics or within the experience of ordinary people. I think this should be studied, that we should gather the data and analyze the phenomena. We need to separate the chemistry of magic from the alchemy, as it were. Hall: That's not exactly what the contemporary devotees of witchcraft and magic are up to. Shah: No. My work has no relevance to the current interest whatever. Oh, it makes my books sell, but they were written for cool-headed people and there aren't many of those around. Hall: Most of the people who get interested in magic seem to be enthusiasts. Shah: Yes, it's just as with ESP. There's no reason why they shouldn't be enthusiasts, but having encouraged them-which I couldn't help-I must now avoid them. They would only be disappointed in what I have to say. You know, Rumi said that people counterfeit gold because there is such a thing as real gold, and I think that's the situation we are in with Sufi studies at the moment. It is much easier to write a book on Sufism than it is to study it. It is much easier to start a group and tell people what to do than it is to learn first. The problem is that the spurious, the unreal, the untrue is so much easier to find that it is in danger of becoming the norm. Until recently, for example, if you didn't use drugs in spiritual pursuits, you were not considered genuine. If you said, "look, drugs are irrelevant to spiritual matters," you were considered a square. Their attitude is not at all a search for truth. Hall: Many people seem to use drugs as an attempt to get instant enlightenment. Shah: People want to be healed or cured or saved, but they want it now. It's astonishing. When people come here to see me, they want to get something, and if I can't give them higher consciousness, they will take my bedspreads or my ashtrays or whatever else they can pick up around the house. Hall: They want something to carry away. Shah: They are thinking in terms of lose property, almost physical. They are savages in the best sense of the word. They are not what they think they are at all. I am invited to believe that they take bedspreads and ashtrays by accident. But it never works the other way; they never leave their wallets behind by mistake. One thing I learned from my father very early: Don't take any notice of what people say, just watch what they do. Hall: Let's get back to your main work. What is the best way of introducing the Sufi way of thinking to the West? Shah: I am sure that the best way is not to start a cult, but to introduce a body of literary material that should interest people enough to establish the Sufi phenomenon as viable. We don't plan to form an organization with somebody at the top and others at the bottom collecting money or wearing funny clothes or converting people to Sufism. We view Sufism not as an ideology that molds people to the right way of belief or action, but as an art or science that can exert a beneficial influence on individuals or societies, in accordance with the needs of those individuals and societies. Hall: Does Western society need this infusion of Sufi thought? Shah: It needs it for the same reason that any society needs it, because it gives one something one cannot get elsewhere. For example, Sufi thought makes a person more efficient. A watchmaker becomes a better watchmaker. A housewife becomes a better housewife. When somebody said as much in California last year, 120 hippies got up and left the hall. They didn't wait to hear that they weren't going to be forced to be more efficient. Hall: But there must be more than efficiency to it. Shah: Of course. I wouldn't try to sell Sufism purely as a means to efficiency, even though it does make one more effective in all sorts of ways. I think Sufism is important because it enables one to detach from life and see it as near to its reality as one can possibly get. Sufi experience tends to produce the kind of person who is calm, not because he can't get excited, but because he knows that getting excited about an event or problem is not going to have any lasting effect. Hall: Would you say that it might give a person an outlook on the problems of this time similar to the outlook he might presently have on the problems of the 16th century? Shah: Very much so. And such an outlook takes the heat out of almost every contention. Instead of becoming the classical Oriental philosopher who says, "All reality is imagination. Why should I care about the world," you begin to see alternative ways of acting. For example, some of the finest people in this country spend a great deal of their time jumping up and down waving banners that condemn the various dirty beasts of the world. Such behavior makes the dirty beasts delighted at the thought that they are so important and the jumpers are so impotent. If the Trafalgar square jumpers had an objective view of their behavior, they would abandon it. First, they would see that they are only giving aid and comfort to the enemy, and second, they would be able to see how to do something about the dirty beasts-and if it were necessary to do anything about them. Hall: In other words, Sufism might help us solve some of the enormous social, political and environmental problems that face us. Shah: People talk about Sufism as if it were the acquisition of powers. Sufi metaphysics has even got a magical reputation. The truth is that Sufi study and development give one capacities that one did not have before. One would not kill merely because killing is bad. Instead, one would know that killing is unnecessary and, in addition, what one would have to do in order to make humanity happier and able to realize better objectives. That's what knowledge is for. Hall: When I read your books, the message came through very clearly that you are not interested in rational, sequential thought-in what Bob Ornstein calls left-hemisphere activity. Shah: To say that I'm not interested in sequential thinking is not to say that I can live without it. I have it up to a certain point, and I expect the people I meet to be able to use it. We need information in order to approach a problem, but we also need to be able to see the thing whole. Hall: When you speak of seeing the thing whole, you're talking about intuitive thought, where you don't reason the problem out but know the answer without knowing how you got it. Shah: Yes. You know the answer and can verify that it is an answer. That is the difference between romantic imagining and something that belongs to this world. Hall: Ornstein, who seems to have been profoundly influenced by Sufi thought, has suggested that most people today tend to rely on logical, rational, linear thought and that we tend to use very little of the intuitive, nonlinear thought of the brain's right hemisphere. Would you say that Sufism can teach one to tap right-hemisphere thought? Shah: Yes, I would. Sufism has never been overimpressed by the products of left-hemisphere activity, although it's often used them. For instance, Sufis have written virtually all the great poetry of Persia, and while the inspiration for a poem may come from the right hemisphere, one must use the left hemisphere to put the poem down in the proper form. I think that the behavior and products of Sufism are among the few things we have that encourage a holistic view of things. I don't want to discuss Sufism in Ornsteinian terms,however, because I'm not qualified to do so. I can only say that insofar as there is any advantage in these two hemispheres acting alternately or complementing one another, then Sufi material undoubtedly is among the very little available material that can help this process along. Hall: Why are the traditional Western methods of study inappropriate for the study of Sufism? Shah: They are inappropriate only up to a point. Both the Western and Middle Eastern methods of study come from the common heritage of the Middle Ages, when one was regarded as wise if he had a better memory than someone else. But some of the teaching methods that Sufis use seem rather odd to the Westerner. If I were to say to you that my favorite method of teaching is to bore the audience to death, you would be shocked. But I have just results of some tests, which show that English schoolchildren, when shown a group of films, remembered only the ones that bored them. Now this is consistent with our experience, but it is not consistent with Western beliefs. Another favorite Sufi teaching method is to be rude to people, sometimes shouting them down or shooing them away, a technique that is not customary in cultivated circles. By experience we know that by giving a certain kind of shock to a person, we can-for a short period-increase his perception. Until recently I wouldn't have dared speak about this, but I now have a clipping indicating that when a person endures a shock he produces Theta rhythms. Some people have associated these brain rhythms with various forms of ESP. No connection has been made yet, but I think we may be beginning to understand it. Hall: Recent studies of memory indicate that unless adrenalin is present, no learning takes place, and shock causes adrenalin to flow. We also know from experience that when you find yourself in a situation of grave danger, you tend to notice some very small detail with great clarity. Shah: Exactly. Concentration comes in on a strange level and in an unaccustomed way. But using this knowledge has traditionally given Sufi teachers a reputation for having bad manners. The most polite thing they can say about us is that we are irascible and out of control. Some people say that a spiritual teacher should have no emotions or be totally balanced. We say that a spiritual teacher must be a person who can be totally balanced, not one who cannot help but be balanced. Hall: People in the United States seem to be looking for leaders, whether spiritual or political, and they keep complaining because there are no leaders to follow. Shah: People are always looking for leaders; that does not mean that this is the time for a leader. The problems that a leader would be able to resolve have not been identified. Nor does the clamor mean that those who cry out are suitable followers. Most of the people who demand a leader seem to have some baby's idea of what a leader should do. The idea that a leader will walk in and we will all recognize him and follow him and everybody will be happy strikes me as a strangely immature atavism. Most of these people, I believe, want not a leader but excitement. I doubt that those who cry the loudest would obey a leader if there was one. Talk is cheap, and a lot of the talk comes from millions of old washerwomen. Hall: If so, the washerwomen are spread throughout the culture. Shah: They're not called washerwomen, but if we test them, they react like washerwomen. For example, if you are selling books and you send a professor of philosophy something written in philosophical language, he will throw it away. But if you send him a spiel written for a washerwoman, he will buy the book. At heart he is a washerwomen. Intellectuals don't understand this, but business people do because their profits depend upon it. You can learn much more about human nature on Madison Avenue than you will from experts on human nature, because on Madison Avenue on stands or falls by the sales. Professors in their ivory towers can say anything because there's no penalty attached. Go to where there is a penalty attached and there you will find wisdom. Hall: That's a tough statement. You sound as if you are down on all academics. Shah: Well, in the past few years I have given quite a few seminars and lectures at universities, and I have become terrified by the low level of ability. It is as if people just aren't trying. They don't read the books in their fields, don't know the workings of them, use inadequate approaches to a subject, ask ridiculous questions that a moment's thought would have enabled them to answer. If these are the cream, what is the milk like? Hall: Are you talking about undergraduates, graduate students, or professors? Shah: The whole lot. Recently I've been appalled at the low levels of articles in learned journals and literary weeklies. The punctuation gone to hell, full of non-sequiturs, an obvious lack of background knowledge, and so on. I went to a newspaper and looked up the equivalent articles from the 1930's. A great change has taken place. Forty years ago there were two kinds of articles: very, very good and terribly bad. There seemed nothing in-between. Now everything is slapdash and mediocre. Why are so many famous persons in hallowed institutions now so mediocre? Hall: Critics like Dwight Macdonald have said for years that as education becomes widespread and people become semiliterate, the culture at the top is inevitably pulled down. But you're not really hostile to all academics, are you? Shah: No, some of my best friends are academics. Hall: That is no way to get out of it. Shah: Of course, I'm not hostile to all academics. There are some great thinkers. But I do not believe that it is necessary for us to have 80% blithering idiots in order to get 20% marvelous academics. This ratio depresses me. I think that the good people are unbelievably noble in denying that the rest of them are such hopeless idiots. Privately they agree with you, but they won't rock the boat. For the sake of humanity, somebody has got to rock the boat. Hall: For the sake of humanity, what would you like to see happen? Shah: What I really want, in case anybody is listening, is for the products of the last 50 years of psychological research to be studied by the public, by everybody, so that the findings become part of their way of thinking. At the moment, people have adopted only a few. They talk glibly about making Freudian slips and they have accepted the idea of inferiority complexes. But they have this great body of psychological information and refuse to use it. There is a Sufi story about a man who went into a shop and asked the shopkeeper, "Do you have leather?" "Yes," said the shopkeeper. "Nails?" "Yes." "Thread?" "Yes." "Needle?" "Yes" "Then why don't you make yourself a pair of boots?" That story is intended to pinpoint this failure to use available knowledge. People in this civilization are starving in the middle of plenty. This is a civilization that is going down, not because it hasn't got the knowledge that would save it, but because nobody will use the knowledge. http://www.katinkahesselink.net/sufi/sufi-shah.html - - - - - - M. Sufilight [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Sat Sep 26 05:37:06 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 67135 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2009 12:37:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Sep 2009 12:37:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO qw-out-1920.google.com) (74.125.92.148) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Sep 2009 12:37:02 -0000 X-Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 5so1045522qwc.22 for ; Sat, 26 Sep 2009 05:35:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.23.212 with SMTP id s20mr769685qcb.71.1253968555255; Sat, 26 Sep 2009 05:35:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <533960.29369.qm@web111612.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <533960.29369.qm@web111612.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 07:35:55 -0500 Message-ID: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 74.125.92.148 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World ts view piont X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=vPbuf_sEksW16NO1g4ZkZNd_S8xW3HR_m2DSuCUVb7HAHaLhazo X-Yahoo-Profile: ramadoss226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52910 You are also dealing with a new environment - Internet. Here everyone is equal and say write about what they feel about any topic. Also, more and more information is broadcast about everything that goes on. People and organizations have to be very careful about what they say or do because very quickly it appears on the Internet and makes them look either good or not good. On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Rialto Maldonado wrote: > > > TodaY I experienced a problem but i remember that chrishnamurti and hpb > experienced problems,the recent bloggs of the forum have a little > unforgiving. We are all people and our founders and past > leaders were all people too,This problem is of my own making > but i have atoned for it, it givesa me a chance to see how people in the > group i belong too see wheaton and how we see society as a > whole.Nobodies perfect and our leaders are not perfect. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From rialto9000@yahoo.com Sun Sep 27 07:13:24 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: rialto9000@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 44019 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2009 14:13:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Sep 2009 14:13:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n22b.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.206.159) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Sep 2009 14:13:21 -0000 X-Received: from [209.191.108.97] by n22.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Sep 2009 14:13:17 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.201.254] by t4.bullet.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Sep 2009 14:13:17 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp415.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Sep 2009 14:13:17 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 883579.94929.bm@omp415.mail.mud.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 67470 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Sep 2009 14:13:17 -0000 Message-ID: <423701.65055.qm@web111615.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: koAWEkQVM1mFrZ1yrylCa2bB7tMGYR8YyRO2uMH0Tlg1vtv6vh1M._GzLcbnNLYa1mvzvTUFF82eAmUpigen3L7KNSGFW72zkeXm.Lv_sZFICFRnSNLnEDXU8e0T73dQv0OO57XnUEs1PzPO8gG9sdEQE7Y9kJjBXyUJIuSwWhFAgaFhoOgZexakmMpaGEMO59KepjYNtxAOHLGB4kGtNjZ_wjKCsFGoTP4STa96AOsz5yzH1zWmoztzihDpP_.13b1PyVUy X-Received: from [69.206.157.203] by web111615.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 27 Sep 2009 07:13:17 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/7.0.14 YahooMailWebService/0.7.347.2 Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 07:13:17 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 68.142.206.159 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Rialto Maldonado Subject: theosophy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=406647630; y=1FiNL7kpyTMH0PuGus78K_cG2wQ0eRTfUpnyciT_rt1v5tHqjg X-Yahoo-Profile: rialto9000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52911 Today is a busy day. I,ve been studying as pile of ts books as well I saw = =A0 comments on =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 the forum too. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around=20 http://mail.yahoo.com=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Sun Sep 27 08:36:12 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 92095 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2009 15:29:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Sep 2009 15:29:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f196.google.com) (209.85.221.196) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Sep 2009 15:29:22 -0000 X-Received: by qyk34 with SMTP id 34so2963042qyk.14 for ; Sun, 27 Sep 2009 08:29:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.69.83 with SMTP id y19mr925129qci.50.1254065352525; Sun, 27 Sep 2009 08:29:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <423701.65055.qm@web111615.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <423701.65055.qm@web111615.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 09:29:12 -0600 Message-ID: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 209.85.221.196 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World theosophy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=1FgeuHpexF016mbeEnZWx4_dCf2c6G9JwbbREvZ4efnf_vux1_A X-Yahoo-Profile: ramadoss226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52912 Let us know if you find anything interesting. On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 8:13 AM, Rialto Maldonado wrote: > > > Today is a busy day. I,ve been studying as pile of ts books as well I saw > comments on the forum too. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Sun Sep 27 09:42:07 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 59500 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2009 16:42:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Sep 2009 16:42:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO qw-out-1920.google.com) (74.125.92.150) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Sep 2009 16:42:03 -0000 X-Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 5so1188819qwc.22 for ; Sun, 27 Sep 2009 09:41:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.29.148 with SMTP id q20mr925189qcc.51.1254069719335; Sun, 27 Sep 2009 09:41:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 10:41:59 -0600 Message-ID: To: theos-talk X-Originating-IP: 74.125.92.150 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Adyar Faces New and Serious Problem X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=pQvke9rnozk-j582-y4dg86PKOAsxaDoU_LE22UevBTG_n02Vuo X-Yahoo-Profile: ramadoss226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52913 Dear Friends, I just learnt about a new and serious problem Adyar is confronting. Here are the fulll details. +++ The Tamil Nadu State Government is planning to build a 47 km elevated express way which will include parts of the Chennai coastline. The first studies show that around 14 fishing communities (*kuppams*) and over 560 families will be affected by the project. The proposed route includes the Adyar beach near the Theosophical Society's compound. The entire unique ecosystem in that area will be severely disturbed. The Adyar beach is one of the last undisturbed beaches in Chennai. Many residents from Chennai go there every day, through the TS compound, to enjoy the beach and the vastness of sea and sky. The beach is also a landmark in contemporary India as it was the place where renowned philosopher J. Krishnamurti was discovered a hundred years ago. The Save Chennai Beaches movement has organized a petition addressed to the Environment Minister of the Central Governement in New Delhi, asking for the project to be abandoned. The link to the petition webpage is given below: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/abandon-the-elevated-highway-and-save-chennai-beaches ++++ As we are all interested in Adyar, I would like to ask you all to consider signing the petition and support this important initiative to save the Adyar beach from unwanted development. MKR PS: Please feel free to copy this and distribute to your friends. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Sun Sep 27 15:07:52 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 19565 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2009 22:07:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Sep 2009 22:07:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-ma01.mx.aol.com) (64.12.206.39) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Sep 2009 22:07:46 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (imo-ma02.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.137]) by imr-ma01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n8RM75fU019628 for ; Sun, 27 Sep 2009 18:07:05 -0400 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.5.) id r.c98.57a7cc94 (65097) for ; Sun, 27 Sep 2009 18:07:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 18:07:03 EDT To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 9.1 sub 5000 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Originating-IP: 64.12.206.39 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Adyar Faces New and Serious Problem X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=sLbOkiYci8jYHehxmj-V-7IX97oK2SIJC-LakcmQWYrx7aaNcw X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52914 We have better things to worry about than some damned beach. I still think we would all be better off if Adyar were plowed under. It has long outlived its usefulness. Chuck the Heretic www.charlescosimano.com In a message dated 9/27/2009 11:42:16 A.M. Central Daylight Time, mkr777@gmail.com writes: Dear Friends, I just learnt about a new and serious problem Adyar is confronting. Here are the fulll details. +++ The Tamil Nadu State Government is planning to build a 47 km elevated express way which will include parts of the Chennai coastline. The first studies show that around 14 fishing communities (*kuppams*) and over 560 families will be affected by the project. The proposed route includes the Adyar beach near the Theosophical Society's compound. The entire unique ecosystem in that area will be severely disturbed. The Adyar beach is one of the last undisturbed beaches in Chennai. Many residents from Chennai go there every day, through the TS compound, to enjoy the beach and the vastness of sea and sky. The beach is also a landmark in contemporary India as it was the place where renowned philosopher J. Krishnamurti was discovered a hundred years ago. T_he Save Chennai Beaches movement has organized a petition addressed to the Environment Minister of the Central Governement in New Delhi, asking for the project to be abandoned. The link to the petition webpage is given below: _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _http://www.thepetithttp:// www.thttp://wwwhttp://www.thhttp://www.thttp://www.thhttp://_ (http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/abandon-the-elevated-highway-and-save-chennai-beaches) _ ++++ As we are all interested in Adyar, I would like to ask you all to consider signing the petition and support this important initiative to save the Adyar beach from unwanted development. MKR PS: Please feel free to copy this and distribute to your friends. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Mon Sep 28 05:52:06 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 44688 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2009 12:43:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Sep 2009 12:43:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qy0-f174.google.com) (209.85.221.174) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Sep 2009 12:43:57 -0000 X-Received: by mail-qy0-f174.google.com with SMTP id 4so3215953qyk.33 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 05:43:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.13.7 with SMTP id z7mr1036812qcz.96.1254141837355; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 05:43:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 07:43:57 -0500 Message-ID: To: theos-talk X-Originating-IP: 209.85.221.174 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Adyar Faces New and Serious Problem - A New Problem X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=g45t_TsOdToioHeBP8jOAacD7Z1VchcKCpDhNPjO0rfbLaDOX0A X-Yahoo-Profile: ramadoss226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52915 There seems to be some confusion about the current plans. This is a new plan which will affect the beach area of Adyar. The previous plan of highway was on the front of Adyar Estate. MKR On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 11:41 AM, MKR wrote: > > > Dear Friends, > > I just learnt about a new and serious problem Adyar is confronting. Here > are > the fulll details. > > +++ > > The Tamil Nadu State Government is planning to build a 47 km elevated > express way which will include parts of the Chennai coastline. The first > studies show that around 14 fishing communities (*kuppams*) and over 560 > families will be affected by the project. The proposed route includes the > Adyar beach near the Theosophical Society's compound. The entire unique > ecosystem in that area will be severely disturbed. > > The Adyar beach is one of the last undisturbed beaches in Chennai. Many > residents from Chennai go there every day, through the TS compound, to > enjoy > the beach and the vastness of sea and sky. The beach is also a landmark in > contemporary India as it was the place where renowned philosopher J. > Krishnamurti was discovered a hundred years ago. > > The Save Chennai Beaches movement has organized a petition addressed to > the Environment Minister of the Central Governement in New Delhi, asking > for > the project to be abandoned. The link to the petition webpage is given > below: > > > http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/abandon-the-elevated-highway-and-save-chennai-beaches > > ++++ > > As we are all interested in Adyar, I would like to ask you all to consider > signing the petition and support this important initiative to save the > Adyar > beach from unwanted development. > > MKR > > PS: Please feel free to copy this and distribute to your friends. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Mon Sep 28 08:38:14 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 7754 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2009 15:38:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Sep 2009 15:38:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mx01.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.11) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Sep 2009 15:38:10 -0000 X-Received: from 56342e5a.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.46.90] helo=khidr) by mx01.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1MsIFf-0006n7-1L for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:35:00 +0200 Message-ID: <000a01ca4051$4760b810$5a2e3456@khidr> To: References: Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:35:15 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.11 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" Subject: Re: Theos-World Adyar Faces New and Serious Problem X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=IammBNIklQMVnrca69NDbfMjMtjqpEXibZKWwpz1WPLs X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52916 It might be worth while to consider the following words by good old H. P. Blavatsky: >>>A PUZZLE FROM ADYAR<<< "There is no longer a "Parent Society"; it is abolished and replaced by an aggregate body of Theosophical Societies, all autonomous, as are the States of America, and all under one Head President, who, together with H. P. Blavatsky, will champion the CAUSE against the whole world. Such is the real state of things. What then, again, can be the meaning of the following comments by the acting Editor, who follows Mr. Keightley's letter with these profoundly wise remarks: It is to be hoped that after this very distinct and authoritative disclaimer no further "private circulars" will be issued by any members of the Esoteric Section, calling upon the Fellows to oppose the action of the General Council, because "Madame Blavatsky does not approve of it"; and also that silly editorials, declaring that Theosophy is degenerating into obedience to the dictates of Madame Blavatsky, like that in a recent issue of the Religio-Philosophical Journal, will cease to appear. " http://www.blavatsky.net/blavatsky/arts/PuzzleFromAdyar.htm M. Sufilight ----- Original Message ----- From: Drpsionic@aol.com To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:07 AM Subject: Re: Theos-World Adyar Faces New and Serious Problem We have better things to worry about than some damned beach. I still think we would all be better off if Adyar were plowed under. It has long outlived its usefulness. Chuck the Heretic www.charlescosimano.com In a message dated 9/27/2009 11:42:16 A.M. Central Daylight Time, mkr777@gmail.com writes: Dear Friends, I just learnt about a new and serious problem Adyar is confronting. Here are the fulll details. +++ The Tamil Nadu State Government is planning to build a 47 km elevated express way which will include parts of the Chennai coastline. The first studies show that around 14 fishing communities (*kuppams*) and over 560 families will be affected by the project. The proposed route includes the Adyar beach near the Theosophical Society's compound. The entire unique ecosystem in that area will be severely disturbed. The Adyar beach is one of the last undisturbed beaches in Chennai. Many residents from Chennai go there every day, through the TS compound, to enjoy the beach and the vastness of sea and sky. The beach is also a landmark in contemporary India as it was the place where renowned philosopher J. Krishnamurti was discovered a hundred years ago. T_he Save Chennai Beaches movement has organized a petition addressed to the Environment Minister of the Central Governement in New Delhi, asking for the project to be abandoned. The link to the petition webpage is given below: _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _http://www.thepetithttp:// www.thttp://wwwhttp://www.thhttp://www.thttp://www.thhttp://_ (http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/abandon-the-elevated-highway-and-save-chennai-beaches) _ ++++ As we are all interested in Adyar, I would like to ask you all to consider signing the petition and support this important initiative to save the Adyar beach from unwanted development. MKR PS: Please feel free to copy this and distribute to your friends. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Mon Sep 28 16:06:19 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 38435 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2009 23:06:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.46) by m6.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Sep 2009 23:06:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52109.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.112) by mta3.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Sep 2009 23:06:13 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 36107 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Sep 2009 23:05:14 -0000 Message-ID: <956219.33763.qm@web52109.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: BlHZNo0VM1lT7S2H8Hx12Tm2w3dxHyp5RS1zgQmMu.PIpeLN1A6Huj_E7H1jebqZQX34zXgyGP_dAYy.7yiK2qP7s934z91qwNhQDK6U.ijn8cmeR9pQVCSfqQn7BM30trNzn5UP3yZtn3SCMCYBWM01q_nAfanA16I0osapxVGxeW7oYIMEUKwwNdQrBVxTtnxlT7Omx3IHctmk6tSoMomqGe4vompsUoS14H6eL8JPWkO2BDd6phjaL_8wqYakD1kOuirptLlFcBlkE1psQGiUnWxZwadTVxLiSigNqP4fMO.tAULGlqSK8NqEJNSD5aAaoS.iR1FeMi.YZtugrA2siFurx0oZvEo4.0CAHTuGsZLO X-Received: from [122.108.22.41] by web52109.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 16:05:13 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/157.18 YahooMailWebService/0.7.347.3 References: <000a01ca4051$4760b810$5a2e3456@khidr> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 16:05:13 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <000a01ca4051$4760b810$5a2e3456@khidr> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.112 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Adyar Faces New and Serious Problem X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=1PfcqhMHWHPJKD5ZLfIXd5xB7w0ouN_ZCjL_4YN5-8xxqE-X4w X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52917 Hey, she was the first to bring in the=A0 sleeper 'cell' system!=A0 lol Cass > >From: Morten Nymann Olesen >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Tuesday, 29 September, 2009 1:35:15 AM >Subject: Re: Theos-World Adyar Faces New and Serious Problem > >=A0=20 > > >It might be worth while to consider the following words by good old H. P. = Blavatsky: > >>>>A PUZZLE FROM ADYAR<<< >"There is no longer a "Parent Society"; it is abolished and replaced by an= aggregate body of Theosophical Societies, all autonomous, as are the State= s of America, and all under one Head President, who, together with H. P. Bl= avatsky, will champion the CAUSE against the whole world. Such is the real = state of things.=20 > >What then, again, can be the meaning of the following comments by the acti= ng Editor, who follows Mr. Keightley's letter with these profoundly wise re= marks:=20 > >It is to be hoped that after this very distinct and authoritative disclaim= er no further "private circulars" will be issued by any members of the Esot= eric Section, calling upon the Fellows to oppose the action of the General = Council, because "Madame Blavatsky does not approve of it"; and also that s= illy editorials, declaring that Theosophy is degenerating into obedience to= the dictates of Madame Blavatsky, like that in a recent issue of the Relig= io-Philosophic al Journal, will cease to appear. " >http://www.blavatsk y.net/blavatsky/ arts/PuzzleFromA dyar.htm > >M. Sufilight > >----- Original Message -----=20 >From: Drpsionic@aol. com=20 >To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com=20 >Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:07 AM >Subject: Re: Theos-World Adyar Faces New and Serious Problem > >We have better things to worry about than some damned beach. I still=20 >think we would all be better off if Adyar were plowed under. It has long=20 >outlived its usefulness. > >Chuck the Heretic > >www.charlescosimano .com=20 > >In a message dated 9/27/2009 11:42:16 A.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 >mkr777@gmail. com writes: > >Dear Friends, > >I just learnt about a new and serious problem Adyar is confronting. Here=20 >are >the fulll details. > >+++ > >The Tamil Nadu State Government is planning to build a 47 km elevated >express way which will include parts of the Chennai coastline. The first >studies show that around 14 fishing communities (*kuppams*) and over 560 >families will be affected by the project. The proposed route includes the >Adyar beach near the Theosophical Society's compound. The entire unique >ecosystem in that area will be severely disturbed. > >The Adyar beach is one of the last undisturbed beaches in Chennai. Many >residents from Chennai go there every day, through the TS compound, to=20 >enjoy >the beach and the vastness of sea and sky. The beach is also a landmark in >contemporary India as it was the place where renowned philosopher J. >Krishnamurti was discovered a hundred years ago. > >T_he Save Chennai Beaches movement has organized a petition addressed to >the Environment Minister of the Central Governement in New Delhi, asking=20 >for >the project to be abandoned. The link to the petition webpage is given >below: > >_ (http://www.charlesc osimano.com/) _http://www.thepetit http:// >www.thttp:// wwwhttp:/ /www.thhttp: //www.thttp: //www.thhttp: //_=20 >(http://www.thepetit ionsite.com/ 1/abandon- the-elevated- highway-and- sa= ve-chennai- beaches) _ > >++++ > >As we are all interested in Adyar, I would like to ask you all to consider >signing the petition and support this important initiative to save the=20 >Adyar >beach from unwanted development. > >MKR > >PS: Please feel free to copy this and distribute to your friends. > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >_ (http://www.charlesc osimano.com/)=20 > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > _____________________________________________________________________= _____________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Mon Sep 28 16:26:11 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 78302 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2009 23:26:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.202) by m1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Sep 2009 23:26:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52106.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.109) by mta3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Sep 2009 23:26:06 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 9723 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Sep 2009 23:26:06 -0000 Message-ID: <302921.9335.qm@web52106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: Ji1RX4gVM1nfaoNok0EHhfdLp1pzPFvERSGIokoiRELpefT5L6VhukmacMQO88_Z0jgsXWwVpLtHDQ9J6rzPfkgsEzRB1rL_GtgzzFYhoj9iBDwjho741fwZWZ4rHyjae5uW7wVV.EZQiZVCZTfE1yBlMv4cJC2pBHiX26rFKDU8_YUEIWuOq8qliXWUQC.TgcrufO_IduiZIcCw_kCa5V80LQB5FSTD.2GLyoLi5Tn3LB2xAjlVUJ6i5r3V3yuAmj2QZh2PTjK_p7rN8DaQ1vnM_tYyH1p9xrnKF9X0f9aUMJcw9TD88NYebnagIZpMuBUQkuuH1x8Kh7V1YrM9yhmK_8Bc_jq2bpQ88JrB4lHZx59WGhmlVVU- X-Received: from [122.108.22.41] by web52106.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 16:26:06 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/157.18 YahooMailWebService/0.7.347.3 References: Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 16:26:06 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.109 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Adyar Faces New and Serious Problem - A New Problem X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=XOPtqQn-sicgxhnbmt5peXZOLVp5FXMdzq_VGIRv2eb4-SxcpQ X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52918 Hasn't this got something to do with the Commonwealth Games being held in I= ndia? Cass > >From: MKR >To: theos-talk >Sent: Monday, 28 September, 2009 10:43:57 PM >Subject: Re: Theos-World Adyar Faces New and Serious Problem - A New Probl= em > >=A0=20 >There seems to be some confusion about the current plans. This is a new pl= an >which will affect the beach area of Adyar. The previous plan of highway wa= s >on the front of Adyar Estate. > >MKR > >On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 11:41 AM, MKR wrote: > >> >> >> Dear Friends, >> >> I just learnt about a new and serious problem Adyar is confronting. Here >> are >> the fulll details. >> >> +++ >> >> The Tamil Nadu State Government is planning to build a 47 km elevated >> express way which will include parts of the Chennai coastline. The first >> studies show that around 14 fishing communities (*kuppams*) and over 560 >> families will be affected by the project. The proposed route includes th= e >> Adyar beach near the Theosophical Society's compound. The entire unique >> ecosystem in that area will be severely disturbed. >> >> The Adyar beach is one of the last undisturbed beaches in Chennai. Many >> residents from Chennai go there every day, through the TS compound, to >> enjoy >> the beach and the vastness of sea and sky. The beach is also a landmark = in >> contemporary India as it was the place where renowned philosopher J. >> Krishnamurti was discovered a hundred years ago. >> >> The Save Chennai Beaches movement has organized a petition addressed to >> the Environment Minister of the Central Governement in New Delhi, asking >> for >> the project to be abandoned. The link to the petition webpage is given >> below: >> >> >> http://www.thepetit ionsite.com/ 1/abandon- the-elevated- highway-and- s= ave-chennai- beaches >> >> ++++ >> >> As we are all interested in Adyar, I would like to ask you all to consid= er >> signing the petition and support this important initiative to save the >> Adyar >> beach from unwanted development. >> >> MKR >> >> PS: Please feel free to copy this and distribute to your friends. >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >>=20 >> > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > _____________________________________________________________________= _____________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From schuller@alpheus.org Tue Sep 29 13:55:28 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: schuller@alpheus.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 34054 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2009 20:55:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Sep 2009 20:55:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mailout09.yourhostingaccount.com) (65.254.253.76) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Sep 2009 20:55:24 -0000 X-Received: from mailscan06.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.15.6] helo=mailscan06.yourhostingaccount.com) by mailout09.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1MsjjH-0006CD-Uj for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 29 Sep 2009 16:55:23 -0400 X-Received: from impout03.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.55.3] helo=impout03.yourhostingaccount.com) by mailscan06.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1MsjjH-00024c-Qx for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 29 Sep 2009 16:55:23 -0400 X-Received: from authsmtp05.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.18.5]) by impout03.yourhostingaccount.com with NO UCE id mkvP1c00606ZpSa0000000; Tue, 29 Sep 2009 16:55:23 -0400 X-EN-OrigOutIP: 10.1.18.5 X-EN-IMPSID: mkvP1c00606ZpSa0000000 X-Received: from [74.3.21.18] (helo=govert) by authsmtp05.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtpa (Exim) id 1MsjjG-0005hx-WC for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 29 Sep 2009 16:55:23 -0400 Message-ID: <00a201ca413e$b57ce740$8464a8c0@govert> To: References: <302921.9335.qm@web52106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 15:54:50 -0400 Organization: Alpheus MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1983 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1983 X-EN-UserInfo: 9d45116152675e45aabea1fab1ce7ef3:4846ef675e8dbc9a03569a74cb9c0e08 X-EN-AuthUser: schuller@alpheus.org X-EN-OrigIP: 74.3.21.18 X-EN-OrigHost: unknown X-Originating-IP: 65.254.253.76 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Govert Schuller" Reply-To: "Govert Schuller" Subject: Bringing Power to Planning Research X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=57527381; y=hfpmUXCgwcYPcjmc2aFnCn-5Oj6IeTFdPQHinJZPwOsidxrF958gVgw X-Yahoo-Profile: govert_alpheus Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52919 Dear all, Just found (and immersed myself into) the work of a social scientist, Bent Flyvbjerg, with both a pragmatic hands-on attitude and a grounding in post-modern philosophy of power. His research is quite impactful in the the field of organizational planning, especially urban development, and on a more theoretical level. His 'best-seller' is "Making Social Science Matter: Why Social Inquiry Fails and How it Can Succeed Again." http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/052177568X/002-3682203-4012821 His relevance to us is twofold: 1) His research might help to understand some of the processes going on with the development of the roads and high-ways possibly on and around Adyar, and based on that understanding, to be more effective in having our voice heard. 2) His research is eminently applicable to the TS and that on any level. He beliefs in the values of democratic participation and transparency, but sees the need of an analysis of power as it is actually yielded and the relations it engenders. One of his main concerns is the relation between rationality and power regardless of the often fine sounding norms and ideals an organization might trumpet. He caught my attention because of the term 'phronetic planning research,' which is how he calls his method. Pronesis is one of Aristotle's 'intellectual virtues,' meaning prudence, or applied wisdom (Sophia: with Sophia being knowledge about the eternal laws of our being and Phronesis being the skill to live virtuously in an ever changing context), or savoir vivre, or situational, circumspective, deliberative, interpretative, authentic, temporal care of our Dasein (be-ing-t/here). The last string of terms comes from Heidegger, who did an in-depth, sustained phenomenological deconstruction of Aristotole's philosophy including the virtue of phronesis. According to some Division B of Heidegger's opus magnum "Being and Time" is one long phenomenological 'un-packing' of human phronetic action seen as situational, circumspective, deliberative, interpretative, authentic, temporal care of our Dasein. The first article is about how he got engaged in his field of research and is very enlightening, especially regarding his methodology. The second article is a longer, more abstract venture into a philosophical and pragmatic underpinning of his methodology. Bringing Power to Planning Research: One Researcher's Praxis Story By Bent Flyvbjerg, Aalborg University, Denmark ABSTRACT This article provides an answer to what has been called the biggest problem in theorizing and understanding planning, namely the ambivalence about power found among planning researchers, theorists, and students. The author narrates how he came to work with issues of power. He then gives an example of how the methodology he developed for power studies, called "phronetic planning research," may be employed in practice. Phronetic planning research follows the tradition of power studies running from Machiavelli and Nietzsche to Michel Foucault and Pierre Bourdieu. It focuses on four value-rational questions: (1) Where are we going with planning? (2) Who gains and who loses, and by which mechanisms of power? (3) Is this development desirable? (4) What should be done? These questions are exemplified for a specific instance of Scandinavian urban planning. The author finds that the questions, and their answers, make a difference to planning in practice. They make planning research matter. http://flyvbjerg.plan.aau.dk/BringPow3JPERSubmit.pdf Phronetic Planning Research: Theoretical and Methodological Reflections By Bent Flyvbjerg, Aalborg University, Denmark ABSTRACT This article presents the theoretical and methodological considerations behind a research method which the author calls 'phronetic planning research'. Such research sets out to answer four questions of power and values for specific instances of planning: (1) Where are we going with planning? (2) Who gains and who loses, and by which mechanisms of power? (3) Is this development desirable? (4) What, if anything, should we do about it? A central task of phronetic planning research is to provide concrete examples and detailed narratives of the ways in which power and values work in planning and with what consequences to whom, and to suggest how relations of power and values could be changed to work with other consequences. Insofar as planning situations become clear, they are clarified by detailed stories of who is doing what to whom. Clarifications of that kind are a principal concern for phronetic planning research and provide the main link to praxis. http://flyvbjerg.plan.aau.dk/PhronPlan7.1PUBL.pdf [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Wed Sep 30 08:12:59 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 78364 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2009 15:12:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Sep 2009 15:12:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mx04.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.14) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Sep 2009 15:12:52 -0000 X-Received: from 56342e5a.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.46.90] helo=khidr) by mx04.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1Mt0rL-00054J-09 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 17:12:52 +0200 Message-ID: <000801ca41e0$8803a360$5a2e3456@khidr> To: References: <302921.9335.qm@web52106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <00a201ca413e$b57ce740$8464a8c0@govert> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 17:13:13 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.14 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" Subject: Re: Theos-World Bringing Power to Planning Research X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=N5xmptnRWaVJAXaC0Erf5Mv2zROIkxwfOJBc-3Zq16rG X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52920 I wonder... About Bent Flyvbjerg: "Flyvbjerg has worked as a consultant to government, regulators, corporatio= ns, banks, national audit offices, the EU Commission, and the United Nation= s. He has been adviser to the UK, Dutch, and Danish governments in formulat= ing national policies for infrastructure, environment, transportation, and = science." http://www.sbs.ox.ac.uk/faculty/Flyvbjerg%2BBent/ I find it a bit difficult to grasp how this relates to TS ideas and Adyar? ------------------------ H. P. Blavatsky said: ..."your vaunted progress and civilization are no better than a host of wil= l-o'-the-wisps, flickering over a marsh which exhales a poisonous and deadl= y miasma." The same can with a certain kind of truth be said of the present globe and = its sad tendencies in the area of what most people in their minds tend to c= all PROGRESS. ........ H. P. Blavatsky said: "ENQUIRER. Then let us begin with the first. What means would you resort to= , in order to promote such a feeling of brotherhood among races that are kn= own to be of the most diversified religions, customs, beliefs, and modes of= thought? THEOSOPHIST. Allow me to add that which you seem unwilling to express. Of c= ourse we know that with the exception of two remnants of races=E2=80=95the = Parsees and the Jews=E2=80=95every nation is divided, not merely against al= l other nations, but even against itself. This is found most prominently am= ong the so-called civilized Christian nations. Hence your wonder, and the r= eason why our first object appears to you a Utopia. Is it not so? ENQUIRER. Well, yes; but what have you to say against it? THEOSOPHIST. Nothing against the fact; but much about the necessity of remo= ving the causes which make Universal Brotherhood a Utopia at present. " ....... "ENQUIRER. What are, in your view, these causes? THEOSOPHIST. First and foremost, the natural selfishness of human nature. T= his selfishness, instead of being eradicated, is daily strengthened and sti= mulated into a ferocious and irresistible feeling by the present religious = education, which tends not only to encourage, but positively to justify it.= People's ideas about right and wrong have been entirely perverted by the l= iteral acceptance of the Jewish Bible. All the unselfishness of the altruis= tic teachings of Jesus has become merely a theoretical subject for pulpit o= ratory; while the precepts of practical selfishness taught in the Mosaic Bi= ble, against which Christ so vainly preached, have become ingrained into th= e innermost life of the Western nations. "An eye for an eye and a tooth for= a tooth" has come to be the first maxim of your law. Now, I state openly a= nd fearlessly, that the perversity of this doctrine and of so many others >= Theosophy alone< can eradicate. " (Arrows added to empahsize italics). http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/aKEY.htm Capitalism and greed interfers all over the globe these days. This is the r= eal state of things. To conquer this greed we need other educational systems and an accept of th= at Science already operates in Paradigm, which daily have a tendency of shi= fting away from Capitalism and greed, as well as the terrible idea of human= made laws and sentences within "so-called" democracies or other political = systems. H. P. Blavatsky said: "ENQUIRER. But how does Theosophy explain the common origin of man? THEOSOPHIST. By teaching that the root of all nature, objective and subjec= tive, and everything else in the universe, visible and invisible, is, was, = and ever will be one absolute essence, from which all starts, and into whic= h everything returns. This is Aryan philosophy, fully represented only by t= he Vedantins, and the Buddhist system. With this object in view, it is the = duty of all Theosophists to promote in every practical way, and in all coun= tries, the spread of non-sectarian education. " ....... "ENQUIRER. How? Do you expect that your doctrines could ever take hold of t= he uneducated masses, when they are so abstruse and difficult that well-edu= cated people can hardly understand them? THEOSOPHIST. You forget one thing, which is that your much-boasted modern e= ducation is precisely that which makes it difficult for you to understand T= heosophy. Your mind is so full of intellectual subtleties and preconception= s that your natural intuition and perception of the truth cannot act. It do= es not require metaphysics or education to make a man understand the broad = truths of Karma and Reincarnation. Look at the millions of poor and uneduca= ted Buddhists and Hindoos, to whom Karma and re-incarnation are solid reali= ties, simply because their minds have never been cramped and distorted by b= eing forced into an unnatural groove. They have never had the innate human = sense of justice perverted in them by being told to believe that their sins= would be forgiven because another man had been put to death for their sake= s. And the Buddhists, note well, live up to their beliefs without a murmur = against Karma, or what they regard as a just punishment; whereas the Christ= ian populace neither lives up to its moral ideal, nor accepts its lot conte= ntedly. Hence murmuring, and dissatisfaction, and the intensity of the stru= ggle for existence in Western lands. ENQUIRER. But this contentedness, which you praise so much, would do away w= ith all motive for exertion and bring progress to a stand-still. THEOSOPHIST. And we, Theosophists, say that your vaunted progress and civil= ization are no better than a host of will-o'-the-wisps, flickering over a m= arsh which exhales a poisonous and deadly miasma. This, because we see self= ishness, crime, immorality, and all the evils imaginable, pouncing upon unf= ortunate mankind from this Pandora's box which you call an age of progress,= and increasing pari passu with the growth of your material civilization. A= t such a price, better the inertia and inactivity of Buddhist countries, wh= ich have arisen only as a consequence of ages of political slavery. " (p. 4= 4, 245-248). M. Sufilight ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Govert Schuller=20 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 9:54 PM Subject: Theos-World Bringing Power to Planning Research Dear all, Just found (and immersed myself into) the work of a social scientist, Ben= t Flyvbjerg, with both a pragmatic hands-on attitude and a grounding in pos= t-modern philosophy of power. His research is quite impactful in the the field of organizational planni= ng, especially urban development, and on a more theoretical level. His 'bes= t-seller' is "Making Social Science Matter: Why Social Inquiry Fails and Ho= w it Can Succeed Again." http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/052177568X/002-3682203-4012= 821 His relevance to us is twofold: 1) His research might help to understand some of the processes going on w= ith the development of the roads and high-ways possibly on and around Adyar= , and based on that understanding, to be more effective in having our voice= heard. 2) His research is eminently applicable to the TS and that on any level. = He beliefs in the values of democratic participation and transparency, but = sees the need of an analysis of power as it is actually yielded and the rel= ations it engenders. One of his main concerns is the relation between ratio= nality and power regardless of the often fine sounding norms and ideals an = organization might trumpet.=20 He caught my attention because of the term 'phronetic planning research,'= which is how he calls his method. Pronesis is one of Aristotle's 'intellec= tual virtues,' meaning prudence, or applied wisdom (Sophia: with Sophia bei= ng knowledge about the eternal laws of our being and Phronesis being the sk= ill to live virtuously in an ever changing context), or savoir vivre, or si= tuational, circumspective, deliberative, interpretative, authentic, tempora= l care of our Dasein (be-ing-t/here).=20 The last string of terms comes from Heidegger, who did an in-depth, susta= ined phenomenological deconstruction of Aristotole's philosophy including t= he virtue of phronesis. According to some Division B of Heidegger's opus ma= gnum "Being and Time" is one long phenomenological 'un-packing' of human ph= ronetic action seen as situational, circumspective, deliberative, interpret= ative, authentic, temporal care of our Dasein. The first article is about how he got engaged in his field of research an= d is very enlightening, especially regarding his methodology. The second article is a longer, more abstract venture into a philosophica= l and pragmatic underpinning of his methodology.=20 Bringing Power to Planning Research: One Researcher's Praxis Story By Bent Flyvbjerg, Aalborg University, Denmark ABSTRACT This article provides an answer to what has been called the biggest probl= em in theorizing and understanding planning, namely the ambivalence about power found among pl= anning researchers, theorists, and students. The author narrates how he came to = work with issues of power. He then gives an example of how the methodology he developed for p= ower studies, called "phronetic planning research," may be employed in practice. Phrone= tic planning research follows the tradition of power studies running from Machiavelli = and Nietzsche to Michel Foucault and Pierre Bourdieu. It focuses on four value-rational qu= estions: (1) Where are we going with planning? (2) Who gains and who loses, and by which mec= hanisms of power? (3) Is this development desirable? (4) What should be done? These = questions are exemplified for a specific instance of Scandinavian urban planning. The a= uthor finds that the questions, and their answers, make a difference to planning in practice. = They make planning research matter. http://flyvbjerg.plan.aau.dk/BringPow3JPERSubmit.pdf Phronetic Planning Research: Theoretical and Methodological Reflections By Bent Flyvbjerg, Aalborg University, Denmark ABSTRACT This article presents the theoretical and methodological conside= rations behind a research method which the author calls 'phronetic planning research'. Suc= h research sets out to answer four questions of power and values for specific instances of plann= ing: (1) Where are we going with planning? (2) Who gains and who loses, and by which mechanisms= of power? (3) Is this development desirable? (4) What, if anything, should we do about it?= A central task of phronetic planning research is to provide concrete examples and detailed = narratives of the ways in which power and values work in planning and with what consequences to = whom, and to suggest how relations of power and values could be changed to work with o= ther consequences. Insofar as planning situations become clear, they are clarified by detail= ed stories of who is doing what to whom. Clarifications of that kind are a principal concern for phr= onetic planning research and provide the main link to praxis. http://flyvbjerg.plan.aau.dk/PhronPlan7.1PUBL.pdf [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From schuller@alpheus.org Wed Sep 30 08:51:26 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: schuller@alpheus.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 81161 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2009 15:51:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Sep 2009 15:51:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mailout18.yourhostingaccount.com) (65.254.253.148) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Sep 2009 15:51:20 -0000 X-Received: from mailscan11.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.15.11] helo=mailscan11.yourhostingaccount.com) by mailout18.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1Mt1Sa-0007an-4m for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 11:51:20 -0400 X-Received: from impout02.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.55.2] helo=impout02.yourhostingaccount.com) by mailscan11.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1Mt1SZ-0007J2-Us for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 11:51:20 -0400 X-Received: from authsmtp05.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.18.5]) by impout02.yourhostingaccount.com with NO UCE id n3r81c00B06ZpSa0000000; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 11:51:08 -0400 X-EN-OrigOutIP: 10.1.18.5 X-EN-IMPSID: n3r81c00B06ZpSa0000000 X-Received: from [74.3.21.18] (helo=govert) by authsmtp05.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtpa (Exim) id 1Mt1SN-0000fj-HH for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 11:51:08 -0400 Message-ID: <008201ca41dd$600cf440$8464a8c0@govert> To: References: <302921.9335.qm@web52106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <00a201ca413e$b57ce740$8464a8c0@govert> <000801ca41e0$8803a360$5a2e3456@khidr> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 10:50:29 -0400 Organization: Alpheus MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1983 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1983 X-EN-UserInfo: 9d45116152675e45aabea1fab1ce7ef3:4846ef675e8dbc9a03569a74cb9c0e08 X-EN-AuthUser: schuller@alpheus.org X-EN-OrigIP: 74.3.21.18 X-EN-OrigHost: unknown X-Originating-IP: 65.254.253.148 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Govert Schuller" Reply-To: "Govert Schuller" Subject: Re: Theos-World Bringing Power to Planning Research X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=57527381; y=fiRHlzaRzqj_PqsFwQAUWZVefRuySbr4POUJXGrHEoIhbCB9BpaMnVg X-Yahoo-Profile: govert_alpheus Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52921 Dear Morten, About Flyvbjerg's relevance I stated the following: His relevance to us is twofold: 1) His research might help to understand some of the processes going on wit= h the development of the roads and high-ways possibly on and around Adyar, = and based on that understanding, to be more effective in having our voice h= eard. 2) His research is eminently applicable to the TS and that on any level. He= beliefs in the values of democratic participation and transparency, but se= es the need of an analysis of power as it is actually yielded and the relat= ions it engenders. One of his main concerns is the relation between rationa= lity and power regardless of the often fine sounding norms and ideals an or= ganization might trumpet.=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Morten Nymann Olesen=20 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 11:13 AM Subject: Re: Theos-World Bringing Power to Planning Research I wonder... About Bent Flyvbjerg: "Flyvbjerg has worked as a consultant to government, regulators, corporat= ions, banks, national audit offices, the EU Commission, and the United Nati= ons. He has been adviser to the UK, Dutch, and Danish governments in formul= ating national policies for infrastructure, environment, transportation, an= d science." http://www.sbs.ox.ac.uk/faculty/Flyvbjerg%2BBent/ I find it a bit difficult to grasp how this relates to TS ideas and Adyar= ? ------------------------ H. P. Blavatsky said: ..."your vaunted progress and civilization are no better than a host of w= ill-o'-the-wisps, flickering over a marsh which exhales a poisonous and dea= dly miasma." The same can with a certain kind of truth be said of the present globe an= d its sad tendencies in the area of what most people in their minds tend to= call PROGRESS. ........ H. P. Blavatsky said: "ENQUIRER. Then let us begin with the first. What means would you resort = to, in order to promote such a feeling of brotherhood among races that are = known to be of the most diversified religions, customs, beliefs, and modes = of thought? THEOSOPHIST. Allow me to add that which you seem unwilling to express. Of= course we know that with the exception of two remnants of races=E2=80=95th= e Parsees and the Jews=E2=80=95every nation is divided, not merely against = all other nations, but even against itself. This is found most prominently = among the so-called civilized Christian nations. Hence your wonder, and the= reason why our first object appears to you a Utopia. Is it not so? ENQUIRER. Well, yes; but what have you to say against it? THEOSOPHIST. Nothing against the fact; but much about the necessity of re= moving the causes which make Universal Brotherhood a Utopia at present. " ....... "ENQUIRER. What are, in your view, these causes? THEOSOPHIST. First and foremost, the natural selfishness of human nature.= This selfishness, instead of being eradicated, is daily strengthened and s= timulated into a ferocious and irresistible feeling by the present religiou= s education, which tends not only to encourage, but positively to justify i= t. People's ideas about right and wrong have been entirely perverted by the= literal acceptance of the Jewish Bible. All the unselfishness of the altru= istic teachings of Jesus has become merely a theoretical subject for pulpit= oratory; while the precepts of practical selfishness taught in the Mosaic = Bible, against which Christ so vainly preached, have become ingrained into = the innermost life of the Western nations. "An eye for an eye and a tooth f= or a tooth" has come to be the first maxim of your law. Now, I state openly= and fearlessly, that the perversity of this doctrine and of so many others= >Theosophy alone< can eradicate. " (Arrows added to empahsize italics). http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/aKEY.htm Capitalism and greed interfers all over the globe these days. This is the= real state of things. To conquer this greed we need other educational systems and an accept of = that Science already operates in Paradigm, which daily have a tendency of s= hifting away from Capitalism and greed, as well as the terrible idea of hum= an made laws and sentences within "so-called" democracies or other politica= l systems. H. P. Blavatsky said: "ENQUIRER. But how does Theosophy explain the common origin of man? THEOSOPHIST. By teaching that the root of all nature, objective and subje= ctive, and everything else in the universe, visible and invisible, is, was,= and ever will be one absolute essence, from which all starts, and into whi= ch everything returns. This is Aryan philosophy, fully represented only by = the Vedantins, and the Buddhist system. With this object in view, it is the= duty of all Theosophists to promote in every practical way, and in all cou= ntries, the spread of non-sectarian education. " ....... "ENQUIRER. How? Do you expect that your doctrines could ever take hold of= the uneducated masses, when they are so abstruse and difficult that well-e= ducated people can hardly understand them? THEOSOPHIST. You forget one thing, which is that your much-boasted modern= education is precisely that which makes it difficult for you to understand= Theosophy. Your mind is so full of intellectual subtleties and preconcepti= ons that your natural intuition and perception of the truth cannot act. It = does not require metaphysics or education to make a man understand the broa= d truths of Karma and Reincarnation. Look at the millions of poor and unedu= cated Buddhists and Hindoos, to whom Karma and re-incarnation are solid rea= lities, simply because their minds have never been cramped and distorted by= being forced into an unnatural groove. They have never had the innate huma= n sense of justice perverted in them by being told to believe that their si= ns would be forgiven because another man had been put to death for their sa= kes. And the Buddhists, note well, live up to their beliefs without a murmu= r against Karma, or what they regard as a just punishment; whereas the Chri= stian populace neither lives up to its moral ideal, nor accepts its lot con= tentedly. Hence murmuring, and dissatisfaction, and the intensity of the st= ruggle for existence in Western lands. ENQUIRER. But this contentedness, which you praise so much, would do away= with all motive for exertion and bring progress to a stand-still. THEOSOPHIST. And we, Theosophists, say that your vaunted progress and civ= ilization are no better than a host of will-o'-the-wisps, flickering over a= marsh which exhales a poisonous and deadly miasma. This, because we see se= lfishness, crime, immorality, and all the evils imaginable, pouncing upon u= nfortunate mankind from this Pandora's box which you call an age of progres= s, and increasing pari passu with the growth of your material civilization.= At such a price, better the inertia and inactivity of Buddhist countries, = which have arisen only as a consequence of ages of political slavery. " (p.= 44, 245-248). M. Sufilight ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Govert Schuller=20 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 9:54 PM Subject: Theos-World Bringing Power to Planning Research Dear all, Just found (and immersed myself into) the work of a social scientist, Ben= t Flyvbjerg, with both a pragmatic hands-on attitude and a grounding in pos= t-modern philosophy of power. His research is quite impactful in the the field of organizational planni= ng, especially urban development, and on a more theoretical level. His 'bes= t-seller' is "Making Social Science Matter: Why Social Inquiry Fails and Ho= w it Can Succeed Again." http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/052177568X/002-3682203-4012= 821 His relevance to us is twofold: 1) His research might help to understand some of the processes going on w= ith the development of the roads and high-ways possibly on and around Adyar= , and based on that understanding, to be more effective in having our voice= heard. 2) His research is eminently applicable to the TS and that on any level. = He beliefs in the values of democratic participation and transparency, but = sees the need of an analysis of power as it is actually yielded and the rel= ations it engenders. One of his main concerns is the relation between ratio= nality and power regardless of the often fine sounding norms and ideals an = organization might trumpet.=20 He caught my attention because of the term 'phronetic planning research,'= which is how he calls his method. Pronesis is one of Aristotle's 'intellec= tual virtues,' meaning prudence, or applied wisdom (Sophia: with Sophia bei= ng knowledge about the eternal laws of our being and Phronesis being the sk= ill to live virtuously in an ever changing context), or savoir vivre, or si= tuational, circumspective, deliberative, interpretative, authentic, tempora= l care of our Dasein (be-ing-t/here).=20 The last string of terms comes from Heidegger, who did an in-depth, susta= ined phenomenological deconstruction of Aristotole's philosophy including t= he virtue of phronesis. According to some Division B of Heidegger's opus ma= gnum "Being and Time" is one long phenomenological 'un-packing' of human ph= ronetic action seen as situational, circumspective, deliberative, interpret= ative, authentic, temporal care of our Dasein. The first article is about how he got engaged in his field of research an= d is very enlightening, especially regarding his methodology. The second article is a longer, more abstract venture into a philosophica= l and pragmatic underpinning of his methodology.=20 Bringing Power to Planning Research: One Researcher's Praxis Story By Bent Flyvbjerg, Aalborg University, Denmark ABSTRACT This article provides an answer to what has been called the biggest probl= em in theorizing and understanding planning, namely the ambivalence about power found among pl= anning researchers, theorists, and students. The author narrates how he came to = work with issues of power. He then gives an example of how the methodology he developed for p= ower studies, called "phronetic planning research," may be employed in practice. Phrone= tic planning research follows the tradition of power studies running from Machiavelli = and Nietzsche to Michel Foucault and Pierre Bourdieu. It focuses on four value-rational qu= estions: (1) Where are we going with planning? (2) Who gains and who loses, and by which mec= hanisms of power? (3) Is this development desirable? (4) What should be done? These = questions are exemplified for a specific instance of Scandinavian urban planning. The a= uthor finds that the questions, and their answers, make a difference to planning in practice. = They make planning research matter. http://flyvbjerg.plan.aau.dk/BringPow3JPERSubmit.pdf Phronetic Planning Research: Theoretical and Methodological Reflections By Bent Flyvbjerg, Aalborg University, Denmark ABSTRACT This article presents the theoretical and methodological conside= rations behind a research method which the author calls 'phronetic planning research'. Suc= h research sets out to answer four questions of power and values for specific instances of plann= ing: (1) Where are we going with planning? (2) Who gains and who loses, and by which mechanisms= of power? (3) Is this development desirable? (4) What, if anything, should we do about it?= A central task of phronetic planning research is to provide concrete examples and detailed = narratives of the ways in which power and values work in planning and with what consequences to = whom, and to suggest how relations of power and values could be changed to work with o= ther consequences. Insofar as planning situations become clear, they are clarified by detail= ed stories of who is doing what to whom. Clarifications of that kind are a principal concern for phr= onetic planning research and provide the main link to praxis. http://flyvbjerg.plan.aau.dk/PhronPlan7.1PUBL.pdf [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Wed Sep 30 10:18:54 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 49664 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2009 17:18:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Sep 2009 17:18:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-ma04.mx.aol.com) (64.12.206.42) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Sep 2009 17:18:45 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (imo-ma01.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.136]) by imr-ma04.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n8UHIA4V031152 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:18:11 -0400 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.5.) id r.c3a.5cf185cf (29672) for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:18:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:19:02 EDT To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 9.1 sub 5000 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Originating-IP: 64.12.206.42 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Bringing Power to Planning Research X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=a8Wnbr6r0CpHHmsAK6nPpSagjVzrG_CEeA8D90WzOqwlh9CzeA X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52922 And the thought of an academic having any idea how power really works is = =20 absurd to say the least. =20 Chuck the Heretic =20 _www.charlescosimano.com=20=20 =20 In a message dated 9/30/2009 10:13:32 A.M. Central Daylight Time,=20=20 global-theosophy@stofanet.dk writes: =20 =20 =20 I wonder... About Bent Flyvbjerg: "Flyvbjerg has worked as a consultant to government, regulators,=20 corporations, banks, national audit offices, the EU Commission, and the Un= ited=20 Nations. He has been adviser to the UK, Dutch, and Danish governments in=20 formulating national policies for infrastructure, environment, transportat= ion, and=20 science." _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/)=20 _http://www.sbs.http://wwhttp://www.sbs.http://ww_ (http://www.sbs.ox.ac.uk= /faculty/Flyvbjerg+Bent/)=20 I find it a bit difficult to grasp how this relates to TS ideas and Adyar= ? ------------------------ H. P. Blavatsky said: ..."your vaunted progress and civilization are no better than a host of=20 will-o'-the-..."your vaunted progress and civilization are no better than a= =20 host of will The same can with a certain kind of truth be said of the present globe and= =20 its sad tendencies in the area of what most people in their minds tend to= =20 call PROGRESS. ........ H. P. Blavatsky said: "ENQUIRER. Then let us begin with the first. What means would you resort=20 to, in order to promote such a feeling of brotherhood among races that are= =20 known to be of the most diversified religions, customs, beliefs, and modes = =20 of thought? THEOSOPHIST. Allow me to add that which you seem unwilling to express. Of= =20 course we know that with the exception of two remnants of races=E2=80=95th= e Parsees=20 and the Jews=E2=80=95every nation is divided, not merely against all other= =20 nations, but even against itself. This is found most prominently among the= =20 so-called civilized Christian nations. Hence your wonder, and the reason w= hy our=20 first object appears to you a Utopia. Is it not so? ENQUIRER. Well, yes; but what have you to say against it? THEOSOPHIST. Nothing against the fact; but much about the necessity of=20 removing the causes which make Universal Brotherhood a Utopia at present. = " ....... "ENQUIRER. What are, in your view, these causes? THEOSOPHIST. First and foremost, the natural selfishness of human nature.= =20 This selfishness, instead of being eradicated, is daily strengthened and=20 stimulated into a ferocious and irresistible feeling by the present religi= ous=20 education, which tends not only to encourage, but positively to justify=20 it. People's ideas about right and wrong have been entirely perverted by t= he=20 literal acceptance of the Jewish Bible. All the unselfishness of the=20 altruistic teachings of Jesus has become merely a theoretical subject for = pulpit=20 oratory; while the precepts of practical selfishness taught in the Mosaic= =20 Bible_, against which Christ so vainly preached, have become ingrained int= o=20 the innermost life of the Western nations. "An eye for an eye and a tooth= =20 for a tooth" has come to be the first maxim of your law. Now, I state open= ly=20 and fearlessly, that the perversity of this doctrine and of so many others= =20 >Theosophy alone< can eradicate. " (Arrows added to empahsize italics). _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _http://www.phx-http://wwwhttp://wwhtt_= =20 (http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/aKEY.htm)=20 Capitalism and greed interfers all over the globe these days. This is the= =20 real state of things. To conquer this greed we need other educational systems and an accept of=20 that Science already operates in Paradigm, which daily have a tendency of= =20 shifting away from Capitalism and greed, as well as the terrible idea of=20 human made laws and sentences within "so-called" democracies or other poli= tical=20 systems. H. P. Blavatsky said: "ENQUIRER. But how does Theosophy explain the common origin of man? THEOSOPHIST. By teaching that the root of all nature, objective and=20 subjective, and everything else in the universe, visible and invisible, is= , was,=20 and ever will be one absolute essence, from which all starts, and into=20 which everything returns. This is Aryan philosophy, fully represented only= by=20 the Vedantins, and the Buddhist system. With this object in view, it is th= e=20 duty of all Theosophists to promote in every practical way, and in all=20 countries, the spread of non-sectarian education. " ....... "ENQUIRER. How? Do you expect that your doctrines could ever take hold of= =20 the uneducated masses, when they are so abstruse and difficult that=20 well-educated people can hardly understand them? THEOSOPHIST. You forget one thing, which is that your much-boasted modern= =20 education is precisely that which makes it difficult for you to understand= =20 Theosophy. Your mind is so full of intellectual subtleties and=20 preconceptions that your natural intuition and perception of the truth can= not act. It=20 does not require metaphysics or education to make a man understand the bro= ad=20 truths of Karma and Reincarnation. Look at the millions of poor and=20 uneducated Buddhists and Hindoos, to whom Karma and re-incarnation are sol= id=20 realities, simply because their minds have never been cramped and distorte= d by=20 being forced into an unnatural groove. They have never had the innate huma= n=20 sense of justice perverted in them by being told to believe that their=20 sins would be forgiven because another man had been put to death for their= =20 sakes. And the Buddhists, note well, live up to their beliefs without a mu= rmur=20 against Karma, or what they regard as a just punishment; whereas the=20 Christian populace neither lives up to its moral ideal, nor accepts its lo= t=20 contentedly. Hence murmuring, and dissatisfaction, and the intensity of th= e=20 struggle for existence in Western lands. ENQUIRER. But this contentedness, which you praise so much, would do away= =20 with all motive for exertion and bring progress to a stand-still. THEOSOPHIST. And we, Theosophists, say that your vaunted progress and=20 civilization are no better than a host of will-o'-the-THEOSOPHIST. And we,= =20 Theosophists, say that your vaunted progress and civilization are no bette= r than=20 a host of will-o'-the-wisps, flickering over a marsh which exhales a= =20 poisonous and deadly miasma. This, because we see selfishness, crime,=20 immorality, and all the evils imaginable, pouncing upon unfortunate mankin= d from=20 this Pandora's box which you call an age of progress, and increasing pari= =20 pass_u with the growth of your material civilization. At such a price,=20 better the inertia an M. Sufilight ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Govert Schuller=20 To: _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_=20 (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) _=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 9:54 PM Subject: Theos-World Bringing Power to Planning Research Dear all, Just found (and immersed myself into) the work of a social scientist, Bent= =20 Flyvbjerg, with both a pragmatic hands-on attitude and a grounding in=20 post-modern philosophy of power. His research is quite impactful in the the field of organizational=20 planning, especially urban development, and on a more theoretical level. H= is=20=20 'best-seller' is "Making Social Science Matter: Why Social Inquiry Fails an= d=20=20 How it Can Succeed Again." _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/)=20 _http://www.amazon.http://wwhttp://wwwhttp://wwhttp://www.http://www.ahttp:= //_=20 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/052177568X/002-3682203-40128= 21)=20 His relevance to us is twofold: 1) His research might help to understand some of the processes going on=20 with the development of the roads and high-ways possibly on and around Ady= ar,=20 and based on that understanding, to be more effective in having our voice= =20 heard. 2) His research is eminently applicable to the TS and that on any level.=20 He beliefs in the values of democratic participation and transparency, but= =20 sees the need of an analysis of power as it is actually yielded and the=20 relations it engenders. One of his main concerns is the relation between=20 rationality and power regardless of the often fine sounding norms and idea= ls an=20 organization might trumpet.=20 He caught my attention because of the term 'phronetic planning research,'= =20 which is how he calls his method. Pronesis is one of Aristotle's=20 'intellectual virtues,' meaning prudence, or applied wisdom (Sophia: with = Sophia=20 being knowledge about the eternal laws of our being and Phronesis being th= e=20 skill to live virtuously in an ever changing context), or savoir vivre, or= =20 situational, circumspective, deliberative, interpretative, authentic, temp= oral=20 care of our Dasein (be-ing-t/here)He The last string of terms comes from Heidegger, who did an in-depth,=20 sustained phenomenological deconstruction of Aristotole's philosophy inclu= ding=20 the virtue of phronesis. According to some Division B of Heidegger's opus= =20 magnum "Being and Time" is one long phenomenological 'un-packing' of human= =20 phronetic action seen as situational, circumspective, deliberative,=20 interpretative, authentic, temporal care of our Dasein. The first article is about how he got engaged in his field of research and= =20 is very enlightening, especially regarding his methodology. The second article is a longer, more abstract venture into a philosophical= =20 and pragmatic underpinning of his methodology.=20=20 Bringing Power to Planning Research: One Researcher's Praxis Story By Bent Flyvbjerg, Aalborg University, Denmark ABSTRACT This article provides an answer to what has been calle_d the biggest=20 problem in theorizing and understanding planning, namely the ambivalence about power found among=20 planning researchers, theorists, and students. The author narrates how he came to=20 work with issues of power. He then gives an example of how the methodology he developed for=20 power studies, called "phronetic planning research," may be employed in practice.=20=20 Phronetic planning research follows the tradition of power studies running from Machiavelli=20 and Nietzsche to Michel Foucault and Pierre Bourdieu. It focuses on four value-rational=20 questions: (1) Where are we going with planning? (2) Who gains and who loses, and by which=20 mechanisms of power? (3) Is this development desirable? (4) What should be done? These=20 questions are exemplified for a specific instance of Scandinavian urban planning. The = =20 author finds that the questions, and their answers, make a difference to planning in practice.=20 They make planning research matter. _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/)=20 _http://flyvbjerg.http://flhttp://flyvbjerghttp://fly_ (http://flyvbjerg.pl= an.aau.dk/BringPow3JPERSubmit.pdf)=20 Phronetic Planning Research: Theoretical and Methodological Reflections By Bent Flyvbjerg, Aalborg University, Denmark ABSTRACT This article presents the theoretical and methodological=20 considerations behind a research method which the author calls 'phronetic planning research'. Such= =20 research sets out to answer four questions of power and values for specific instances of=20 planning: (1) Where are we going with planning? (2) Who gains and who loses, and by which mechanisms= =20 of power? (3) Is this development desirable? (4) What, if anything, should we do about it?= =20 A central task of phronetic planning research is to provide concrete examples and detailed=20 narratives of the ways in which power and values work in planning and with what consequences to=20 whom, and to suggest how relations of power and values could be changed to work with=20 other consequences. Insofar as planning situations become clear, they are clarified by=20 detailed stories of who is doing what to whom. Clarifications of that kind are a p_rincipal concern for=20 phronetic planning research and provide the main link to praxis. _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/)=20 _http://flyvbjerg.http://flhttp://flyvbjehttp://fl_ (http://flyvbjerg.plan.= aau.dk/PhronPlan7.1PUBL.pdf) _ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/)=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Wed Sep 30 10:20:32 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 33743 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2009 17:20:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m4.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Sep 2009 17:20:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imr-ma02.mx.aol.com) (64.12.206.40) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Sep 2009 17:20:31 -0000 X-Received: from imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (imo-ma02.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.137]) by imr-ma02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n8UHJPNX005072 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:19:26 -0400 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-ma02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.5.) id r.d3b.4ea73345 (29672) for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:19:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:20:18 EDT To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 9.1 sub 5000 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Originating-IP: 64.12.206.40 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Bringing Power to Planning Research X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=2pQLQeAUl8GyPqSzZnPtLnP2QnKKExdK5J8VqePM8By8VleyTg X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52923 The only person who ever said anything about power worth listening to was = =20 Mao when he said, "Power comes from the barrel of a gun." =20 Everything else is just social tinkering. =20 Chuck the Heretic =20 _www.charlescosimano.com=20=20 =20 In a message dated 9/30/2009 10:52:13 A.M. Central Daylight Time,=20=20 schuller@alpheus.org writes: =20 =20 =20 Dear Morten, About Flyvbjerg's relevance I stated the following: His relevance to us is twofold: 1) His research might help to understand some of the processes going on=20 with the development of the roads and high-ways possibly on and around Ady= ar,=20 and based on that understanding, to be more effective in having our voice= =20 heard. 2) His research is eminently applicable to the TS and that on any level.=20 He beliefs in the values of democratic participation and transparency, but= =20 sees the need of an analysis of power as it is actually yielded and the=20 relations it engenders. One of his main concerns is the relation between=20 rationality and power regardless of the often fine sounding norms and idea= ls an=20 organization might trumpet.=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Morten Nymann Olesen=20 To:=20 _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_=20 (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) _=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 11:13 AM Subject: Re: Theos-World Bringing Power to Planning Research I wonder... About Bent Flyvbjerg: "Flyvbjerg has worked as a consultant to government, regulators,=20 corporations, banks, national audit offices, the EU Commission, and the Un= ited=20 Nations. He has been adviser to the UK, Dutch, and Danish governments in=20 formulating national policies for infrastructure, environment, transportat= ion, and=20 science." _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/)=20 _http://www.sbs.http://wwhttp://www.sbs.http://ww_ (http://www.sbs.ox.ac.uk= /faculty/Flyvbjerg+Bent/)=20 I find it a bit difficult to grasp how this relates to TS ideas and Adyar= ? ------------------------ H. P. Blavatsky said: ..."your vaunted progress and civilization are no better than a host of=20 will-o'-the-..."your vaunted progress and civilization are no better than a= =20 host of will The same can with a certain kind of truth be said of the present globe and= =20 its sad tendencies in the area of what most people in their minds tend to= =20 call PROGRESS. ........ H. P. Blavatsky said: "ENQUIRER. Then let us begin with the first. What means would you resort=20 to, in order to promote such a feeling of brotherhood among races that are= =20 known to be of the most diversified religions, customs, beliefs, and modes = =20 of thought? THEOSOPHIST. Allow me to add that which you seem unwilling to express. Of= =20 course we know that with the exception of two remnants of races=E2=80=95th= e Parsees=20 and the Jews=E2=80=95every nation is divided, not merely against all other= =20 nations, but even against itself. This is found most prominently among the= =20 so-called civilized Christian nations. Hence your wonder, and the reason w= hy our=20 first object appears to you a Utopia. Is it not so? ENQUIRER. Well, yes; but what have you to say against it? THEOSOPHIST. Nothing against the fact; but much about the necessity of=20 removing the causes which make Universal Brotherhood a Utopia at present. = " ....... "ENQUIRER. What are, in your view, these causes? THEOSOPHIST. First and foremost, the natural selfishness of human nature.= =20 This selfishness, instead of being eradicated, is daily strengthened and=20 stimulated into a ferocious and irresistible feeling by the present religi= ous=20 education, which tends not only to encourage, but positively to justify=20 it. People's ideas about right and wrong have been entirely perverted by t= he=20 literal acceptance of the Jewish Bible. All the unselfishness of the=20 altruistic teachings of Jesus has become merely a theoretical subject for = pulpit=20 oratory; while the precepts of practical selfishness taught in the Mosaic= =20 Bible_, against which Christ so vainly preached, have become ingrained int= o=20 the innermost life of the Western nations. "An eye for an eye and a tooth= =20 for a tooth" has come to be the first maxim of your law. Now, I state open= ly=20 and fearlessly, that the perversity of this doctrine and of so many others= =20 >Theosophy alone< can eradicate. " (Arrows added to empahsize italics). _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _http://www.phx-http://wwwhttp://wwhtt_= =20 (http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/aKEY.htm)=20 Capitalism and greed interfers all over the globe these days. This is the= =20 real state of things. To conquer this greed we need other educational systems and an accept of=20 that Science already operates in Paradigm, which daily have a tendency of= =20 shifting away from Capitalism and greed, as well as the terrible idea of=20 human made laws and sentences within "so-called" democracies or other poli= tical=20 systems. H. P. Blavatsky said: "ENQUIRER. But how does Theosophy explain the common origin of man? THEOSOPHIST. By teaching that the root of all nature, objective and=20 subjective, and everything else in the universe, visible and invisible, is= , was,=20 and ever will be one absolute essence, from which all starts, and into=20 which everything returns. This is Aryan philosophy, fully represented only= by=20 the Vedantins, and the Buddhist system. With this object in view, it is th= e=20 duty of all Theosophists to promote in every practical way, and in all=20 countries, the spread of non-sectarian education. " ....... "ENQUIRER. How? Do you expect that your doctrines could ever take hold of= =20 the uneducated masses, when they are so abstruse and difficult that=20 well-educated people can hardly understand them? THEOSOPHIST. You forget one thing, which is that your much-boasted modern= =20 education is precisely that which makes it difficult for you to understand= =20 Theosophy. Your mind is so full of intellectual subtleties and=20 preconceptions that your natural intuition and perception of the truth can= not act. It=20 does not require metaphysics or education to make a man understand the bro= ad=20 truths of Karma and Reincarnation. Look at the millions of poor and=20 uneducated Buddhists and Hindoos, to whom Karma and re-incarnation are sol= id=20 realities, simply because their minds have never been cramped and distorte= d by=20 being forced into an unnatural groove. They have never had the innate huma= n=20 sense of justice perverted in them by being told to believe that their=20 sins would be forgiven because another man had been put to death for their= =20 sakes. And the Buddhists, note well, live up to their beliefs without a mu= rmur=20 against Karma, or what they regard as a just punishment; whereas the=20 Christian populace neither lives up to its moral ideal, nor accepts its lo= t=20 contentedly. Hence murmuring, and dissatisfaction, and the intensity of th= e=20 struggle for existence in Western lands. ENQUIRER. But this contentedness, which you praise so much, would do away= =20 with all motive for exertion and bring progress to a stand-still. THEOSOPHIST. And we, Theosophists, say that your vaunted progress and=20 civilization are no better than a host of will-o'-the-THEOSOPHIST. And we,= =20 Theosophists, say that your vaunted progress and civilization are no bette= r than=20 a host of will-o'-the-wisps, flickering over a marsh which exhales a= =20 poisonous and deadly miasma. This, because we see selfishness, crime,=20 immorality, and all the evils imaginable, pouncing upon unfortunate mankin= d from=20 this Pandora's box which you call an age of progress, and increasing pari= =20 pass_u with the growth of your material civilization. At such a price,=20 better the inertia an M. Sufilight ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Govert Schuller=20 To: _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_=20 (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) _=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 9:54 PM Subject: Theos-World Bringing Power to Planning Research Dear all, Just found (and immersed myself into) the work of a social scientist, Bent= =20 Flyvbjerg, with both a pragmatic hands-on attitude and a grounding in=20 post-modern philosophy of power. His research is quite impactful in the the field of organizational=20 planning, especially urban development, and on a more theoretical level. H= is=20=20 'best-seller' is "Making Social Science Matter: Why Social Inquiry Fails an= d=20=20 How it Can Succeed Again." _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/)=20 _http://www.amazon.http://wwhttp://wwwhttp://wwhttp://www.http://www.ahttp:= //_=20 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/052177568X/002-3682203-40128= 21)=20 His relevance to us is twofold: 1) His research might help to understand some of the processes going on=20 with the development of the roads and high-ways possibly on and around Ady= ar,=20 and based on that understanding, to be more effective in having our voice= =20 heard. 2) His research is eminently applicable to the TS and that on any level.=20 He beliefs in the values of democratic participation and transparency, but= =20 sees the need of an analysis of power as it is actually yielded and the=20 relations it engenders. One of his main concerns is the relation between=20 rationality and power regardless of the often fine sounding norms and idea= ls an=20 organization might trumpet.=20 He caught my attention because of the term 'phronetic planning research,'= =20 which is how he calls his method. Pronesis is one of Aristotle's=20 'intellectual virtues,' meaning prudence, or applied wisdom (Sophia: with = Sophia=20 being knowledge about the eternal laws of our being and Phronesis being th= e=20 skill to live virtuously in an ever changing context), or savoir vivre, or= =20 situational, circumspective, deliberative, interpretative, authentic, temp= oral=20 care of our Dasein (be-ing-t/here)He The last string of terms comes from Heidegger, who did an in-depth,=20 sustained phenomenological deconstruction of Aristotole's philosophy inclu= ding=20 the virtue of phronesis. According to some Division B of Heidegger's opus= =20 magnum "Being and Time" is one long phenomenological 'un-packing' of human= =20 phronetic action seen as situational, circumspective, deliberative,=20 interpretative, authentic, temporal care of our Dasein. The first article is about how he got engaged in his field of research and= =20 is very enlightening, especially regarding his methodology. The second article is a longer, more abstract venture into a philosophical= =20 and pragmatic underpinning of his methodology.=20=20 Bringing Power to Planning Research: One Researcher's Praxis Story By Bent Flyvbjerg, Aalborg University, Denmark ABSTRACT This article provides an answer to what has been calle_d the biggest=20 problem in theorizing and understanding planning, namely the ambivalence about power found among=20 planning researchers, theorists, and students. The author narrates how he came to=20 work with issues of power. He then gives an example of how the methodology he developed for=20 power studies, called "phronetic planning research," may be employed in practice.=20=20 Phronetic planning research follows the tradition of power studies running from Machiavelli=20 and Nietzsche to Michel Foucault and Pierre Bourdieu. It focuses on four value-rational=20 questions: (1) Where are we going with planning? (2) Who gains and who loses, and by which=20 mechanisms of power? (3) Is this development desirable? (4) What should be done? These=20 questions are exemplified for a specific instance of Scandinavian urban planning. The = =20 author finds that the questions, and their answers, make a difference to planning in practice.=20 They make planning research matter. _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/)=20 _http://flyvbjerg.http://flhttp://flyvbjerghttp://fly_ (http://flyvbjerg.pl= an.aau.dk/BringPow3JPERSubmit.pdf)=20 Phronetic Planning Research: Theoretical and Methodological Reflections By Bent Flyvbjerg, Aalborg University, Denmark ABSTRACT This article presents the theoretical and methodological=20 considerations behind a research method which the author calls 'phronetic planning research'. Such= =20 research sets out to answer four questions of power and values for specific instances of=20 planning: (1) Where are we going with planning? (2) Who gains and who loses, and by which mechanisms= =20 of power? (3) Is this development desirable? (4) What, if anything, should we do about it?= =20 A central task of phronetic planning research is to provide concrete examples and detailed=20 narratives of the ways in which power and values work in planning and with what consequences to=20 whom, and to suggest how relations of power and values could be changed to work with=20 other consequences. Insofar as planning situations become clear, they are clarified by=20 detailed stories of who is doing what to whom. Clarifications of that kind are a p_rincipal concern for=20 phronetic planning research and provide the main link to praxis. _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/)=20 _http://flyvbjerg.http://flhttp://flyvbjehttp://fl_ (http://flyvbjerg.plan.= aau.dk/PhronPlan7.1PUBL.pdf) _ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/)=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From schuller@alpheus.org Wed Sep 30 10:58:09 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: schuller@alpheus.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60433 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2009 17:58:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m8.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Sep 2009 17:58:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mailout17.yourhostingaccount.com) (65.254.253.140) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Sep 2009 17:58:05 -0000 X-Received: from mailscan18.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.15.18] helo=mailscan18.yourhostingaccount.com) by mailout17.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1Mt3RE-0004rq-SQ for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:58:04 -0400 X-Received: from impout02.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.55.2] helo=impout02.yourhostingaccount.com) by mailscan18.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1Mt3RE-0000Zr-Pe for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:58:04 -0400 X-Received: from authsmtp02.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.18.2]) by impout02.yourhostingaccount.com with NO UCE id n5xs1c00J02goRm0000000; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:57:52 -0400 X-EN-OrigOutIP: 10.1.18.2 X-EN-IMPSID: n5xs1c00J02goRm0000000 X-Received: from [74.3.21.18] (helo=govert) by authsmtp02.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtpa (Exim) id 1Mt3R1-00072s-Qy for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:57:53 -0400 Message-ID: <00d601ca41ef$145c4160$8464a8c0@govert> To: References: Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 12:57:21 -0400 Organization: Alpheus MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1983 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1983 X-EN-UserInfo: 9d45116152675e45aabea1fab1ce7ef3:4846ef675e8dbc9a03569a74cb9c0e08 X-EN-AuthUser: schuller@alpheus.org X-EN-OrigIP: 74.3.21.18 X-EN-OrigHost: unknown X-Originating-IP: 65.254.253.140 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Govert Schuller" Reply-To: "Govert Schuller" Subject: Re: Theos-World Bringing Power to Planning Research X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=57527381; y=_E7N6dQDLH1k6YZ2tOOa7SuVvZh0SWvWIQqlLAtIXn-STjoIg7uyXbo X-Yahoo-Profile: govert_alpheus Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52924 Chuck, Very Chuckian, heretical, and besides the point. Mao's sense of power was to use the state monopoly on violence and turn it = into a terrorist tool directed on its own populace and in so doing he enter= ed into the Guiness book of records as the greatest mass murderer who ever = lived with 26 millions deaths to his name.=20 Flyvbjerg's agenda, as one reviewer stated it, is such that "social science= should aim to generate "power-conscious" interventions geared towards open= ing dialogue and generating consensus which will enable society to move for= ward." His social science is indeed tinkering, but in a possibly very effec= tive way, and certainly non-violent. Govert ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Drpsionic@aol.com=20 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 1:20 PM Subject: Re: Theos-World Bringing Power to Planning Research The only person who ever said anything about power worth listening to w= as=20 Mao when he said, "Power comes from the barrel of a gun." Everything else is just social tinkering. Chuck the Heretic _www.charlescosimano.com=20 In a message dated 9/30/2009 10:52:13 A.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 schuller@alpheus.org writes: Dear Morten, About Flyvbjerg's relevance I stated the following: His relevance to us is twofold: 1) His research might help to understand some of the processes going on=20 with the development of the roads and high-ways possibly on and around Ad= yar,=20 and based on that understanding, to be more effective in having our voice= =20 heard. 2) His research is eminently applicable to the TS and that on any level.= =20 He beliefs in the values of democratic participation and transparency, bu= t=20 sees the need of an analysis of power as it is actually yielded and the=20 relations it engenders. One of his main concerns is the relation between= =20 rationality and power regardless of the often fine sounding norms and ide= als an=20 organization might trumpet.=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Morten Nymann Olesen=20 To:=20 _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_=20 (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) _=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 11:13 AM Subject: Re: Theos-World Bringing Power to Planning Research I wonder... About Bent Flyvbjerg: "Flyvbjerg has worked as a consultant to government, regulators,=20 corporations, banks, national audit offices, the EU Commission, and the U= nited=20 Nations. He has been adviser to the UK, Dutch, and Danish governments in= =20 formulating national policies for infrastructure, environment, transporta= tion, and=20 science." _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/)=20 _http://www.sbs.http://wwhttp://www.sbs.http://ww_ (http://www.sbs.ox.ac.= uk/faculty/Flyvbjerg+Bent/)=20 I find it a bit difficult to grasp how this relates to TS ideas and Adyar= ? ------------------------ H. P. Blavatsky said: ..."your vaunted progress and civilization are no better than a host of=20 will-o'-the-..."your vaunted progress and civilization are no better than= a=20 host of will The same can with a certain kind of truth be said of the present globe an= d=20 its sad tendencies in the area of what most people in their minds tend to= =20 call PROGRESS. ........ H. P. Blavatsky said: "ENQUIRER. Then let us begin with the first. What means would you resort= =20 to, in order to promote such a feeling of brotherhood among races that ar= e=20 known to be of the most diversified religions, customs, beliefs, and mode= s=20 of thought? THEOSOPHIST. Allow me to add that which you seem unwilling to express. Of= =20 course we know that with the exception of two remnants of races=E2=80=95t= he Parsees=20 and the Jews=E2=80=95every nation is divided, not merely against all othe= r=20 nations, but even against itself. This is found most prominently among th= e=20 so-called civilized Christian nations. Hence your wonder, and the reason = why our=20 first object appears to you a Utopia. Is it not so? ENQUIRER. Well, yes; but what have you to say against it? THEOSOPHIST. Nothing against the fact; but much about the necessity of=20 removing the causes which make Universal Brotherhood a Utopia at present.= " ....... "ENQUIRER. What are, in your view, these causes? THEOSOPHIST. First and foremost, the natural selfishness of human nature.= =20 This selfishness, instead of being eradicated, is daily strengthened and= =20 stimulated into a ferocious and irresistible feeling by the present relig= ious=20 education, which tends not only to encourage, but positively to justify=20 it. People's ideas about right and wrong have been entirely perverted by = the=20 literal acceptance of the Jewish Bible. All the unselfishness of the=20 altruistic teachings of Jesus has become merely a theoretical subject for= pulpit=20 oratory; while the precepts of practical selfishness taught in the Mosaic= =20 Bible_, against which Christ so vainly preached, have become ingrained in= to=20 the innermost life of the Western nations. "An eye for an eye and a tooth= =20 for a tooth" has come to be the first maxim of your law. Now, I state ope= nly=20 and fearlessly, that the perversity of this doctrine and of so many other= s=20 >Theosophy alone< can eradicate. " (Arrows added to empahsize italics). _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _http://www.phx-http://wwwhttp://wwht= t_=20 (http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/aKEY.htm)=20 Capitalism and greed interfers all over the globe these days. This is the= =20 real state of things. To conquer this greed we need other educational systems and an accept of= =20 that Science already operates in Paradigm, which daily have a tendency of= =20 shifting away from Capitalism and greed, as well as the terrible idea of= =20 human made laws and sentences within "so-called" democracies or other pol= itical=20 systems. H. P. Blavatsky said: "ENQUIRER. But how does Theosophy explain the common origin of man? THEOSOPHIST. By teaching that the root of all nature, objective and=20 subjective, and everything else in the universe, visible and invisible, i= s, was,=20 and ever will be one absolute essence, from which all starts, and into=20 which everything returns. This is Aryan philosophy, fully represented onl= y by=20 the Vedantins, and the Buddhist system. With this object in view, it is t= he=20 duty of all Theosophists to promote in every practical way, and in all=20 countries, the spread of non-sectarian education. " ....... "ENQUIRER. How? Do you expect that your doctrines could ever take hold of= =20 the uneducated masses, when they are so abstruse and difficult that=20 well-educated people can hardly understand them? THEOSOPHIST. You forget one thing, which is that your much-boasted modern= =20 education is precisely that which makes it difficult for you to understan= d=20 Theosophy. Your mind is so full of intellectual subtleties and=20 preconceptions that your natural intuition and perception of the truth ca= nnot act. It=20 does not require metaphysics or education to make a man understand the br= oad=20 truths of Karma and Reincarnation. Look at the millions of poor and=20 uneducated Buddhists and Hindoos, to whom Karma and re-incarnation are so= lid=20 realities, simply because their minds have never been cramped and distort= ed by=20 being forced into an unnatural groove. They have never had the innate hum= an=20 sense of justice perverted in them by being told to believe that their=20 sins would be forgiven because another man had been put to death for thei= r=20 sakes. And the Buddhists, note well, live up to their beliefs without a m= urmur=20 against Karma, or what they regard as a just punishment; whereas the=20 Christian populace neither lives up to its moral ideal, nor accepts its l= ot=20 contentedly. Hence murmuring, and dissatisfaction, and the intensity of t= he=20 struggle for existence in Western lands. ENQUIRER. But this contentedness, which you praise so much, would do away= =20 with all motive for exertion and bring progress to a stand-still. THEOSOPHIST. And we, Theosophists, say that your vaunted progress and=20 civilization are no better than a host of will-o'-the-THEOSOPHIST. And we= ,=20 Theosophists, say that your vaunted progress and civilization are no bett= er than=20 a host of will-o'-the-wisps, flickering over a marsh which exhales a= =20 poisonous and deadly miasma. This, because we see selfishness, crime,=20 immorality, and all the evils imaginable, pouncing upon unfortunate manki= nd from=20 this Pandora's box which you call an age of progress, and increasing pari= =20 pass_u with the growth of your material civilization. At such a price,=20 better the inertia an M. Sufilight ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Govert Schuller=20 To: _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_=20 (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) _=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 9:54 PM Subject: Theos-World Bringing Power to Planning Research Dear all, Just found (and immersed myself into) the work of a social scientist, Ben= t=20 Flyvbjerg, with both a pragmatic hands-on attitude and a grounding in=20 post-modern philosophy of power. His research is quite impactful in the the field of organizational=20 planning, especially urban development, and on a more theoretical level. = His=20 'best-seller' is "Making Social Science Matter: Why Social Inquiry Fails = and=20 How it Can Succeed Again." _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/)=20 _http://www.amazon.http://wwhttp://wwwhttp://wwhttp://www.http://www.ahtt= p://_=20 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/052177568X/002-3682203-401= 2821)=20 His relevance to us is twofold: 1) His research might help to understand some of the processes going on=20 with the development of the roads and high-ways possibly on and around Ad= yar,=20 and based on that understanding, to be more effective in having our voice= =20 heard. 2) His research is eminently applicable to the TS and that on any level.= =20 He beliefs in the values of democratic participation and transparency, bu= t=20 sees the need of an analysis of power as it is actually yielded and the=20 relations it engenders. One of his main concerns is the relation between= =20 rationality and power regardless of the often fine sounding norms and ide= als an=20 organization might trumpet.=20 He caught my attention because of the term 'phronetic planning research,'= =20 which is how he calls his method. Pronesis is one of Aristotle's=20 'intellectual virtues,' meaning prudence, or applied wisdom (Sophia: with= Sophia=20 being knowledge about the eternal laws of our being and Phronesis being t= he=20 skill to live virtuously in an ever changing context), or savoir vivre, o= r=20 situational, circumspective, deliberative, interpretative, authentic, tem= poral=20 care of our Dasein (be-ing-t/here)He The last string of terms comes from Heidegger, who did an in-depth,=20 sustained phenomenological deconstruction of Aristotole's philosophy incl= uding=20 the virtue of phronesis. According to some Division B of Heidegger's opus= =20 magnum "Being and Time" is one long phenomenological 'un-packing' of huma= n=20 phronetic action seen as situational, circumspective, deliberative,=20 interpretative, authentic, temporal care of our Dasein. The first article is about how he got engaged in his field of research an= d=20 is very enlightening, especially regarding his methodology. The second article is a longer, more abstract venture into a philosophica= l=20 and pragmatic underpinning of his methodology.=20 Bringing Power to Planning Research: One Researcher's Praxis Story By Bent Flyvbjerg, Aalborg University, Denmark ABSTRACT This article provides an answer to what has been calle_d the biggest=20 problem in theorizing and understanding planning, namely the ambivalence about power found among=20 planning researchers, theorists, and students. The author narrates how he came to= =20 work with issues of power. He then gives an example of how the methodology he developed for=20 power studies, called "phronetic planning research," may be employed in practice.=20 Phronetic planning research follows the tradition of power studies running from Machiavelli= =20 and Nietzsche to Michel Foucault and Pierre Bourdieu. It focuses on four value-rational=20 questions: (1) Where are we going with planning? (2) Who gains and who loses, and by which=20 mechanisms of power? (3) Is this development desirable? (4) What should be done? These= =20 questions are exemplified for a specific instance of Scandinavian urban planning. The=20 author finds that the questions, and their answers, make a difference to planning in practice.= =20 They make planning research matter. _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/)=20 _http://flyvbjerg.http://flhttp://flyvbjerghttp://fly_ (http://flyvbjerg.= plan.aau.dk/BringPow3JPERSubmit.pdf)=20 Phronetic Planning Research: Theoretical and Methodological Reflections By Bent Flyvbjerg, Aalborg University, Denmark ABSTRACT This article presents the theoretical and methodological=20 considerations behind a research method which the author calls 'phronetic planning research'. Suc= h=20 research sets out to answer four questions of power and values for specific instances of=20 planning: (1) Where are we going with planning? (2) Who gains and who loses, and by which mechanisms= =20 of power? (3) Is this development desirable? (4) What, if anything, should we do about it?= =20 A central task of phronetic planning research is to provide concrete examples and detailed= =20 narratives of the ways in which power and values work in planning and with what consequences to= =20 whom, and to suggest how relations of power and values could be changed to work with=20 other consequences. Insofar as planning situations become clear, they are clarified by=20 detailed stories of who is doing what to whom. Clarifications of that kind are a p_rincipal concern for=20 phronetic planning research and provide the main link to praxis. _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/)=20 _http://flyvbjerg.http://flhttp://flyvbjehttp://fl_ (http://flyvbjerg.pla= n.aau.dk/PhronPlan7.1PUBL.pdf) _ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/)=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Wed Sep 30 11:44:40 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 42359 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2009 18:44:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Sep 2009 18:44:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mx01.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.11) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Sep 2009 18:44:32 -0000 X-Received: from 56342e5a.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.46.90] helo=khidr) by mx01.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1Mt4AA-0005ZI-08 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 20:44:31 +0200 Message-ID: <001701ca41fe$1a627840$5a2e3456@khidr> To: References: Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 20:44:55 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.11 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" Subject: Re: Theos-World Bringing Power to Planning Research X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=EMrKtVirhzKDDJXG--61d-6cTYfht7QUufPxmIbH_Y8O X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52925 Dear Chuck and friends My views are: Yes, perhaps. I will just choose to repeat the views I e-mailed more than 3 years ago her= e at Theos-talk: "All this talk reminds me of the Chinese movie named HERO. A beautiful movie on a great legend. The movie by Zhang is set 2,200 years ago, during the reign of the King of = Qin (Chen Daoming), the emperor who united China and built the Great Wall. The emperor realises the wisdom behind a sign given to him by the leading r= ole in the movie called "Nameless". The Sign is called "Everything under the heaven". The sign has three levels of interpretation. It sort of relates to Arjuna's struggle on the spiritual path in the famous script called Bhagavad Gita. The emperor says just about the following, when he understands the meaning = of the sign: 1.The unity between Sword and man, makes the master capeable of using anyth= ing as a weapon, even a straw of grass. 2. When the sword is in the heart, then it is not needed in the hand, and then one is able to strike ones enemy even at a distance of a hundred s= teps. 3. The highest aim of the master of the sword is to neither have the sword in the hand or in the heart. When this happens the master of the sword has create peace with the world. He hold it sacred not to kill, but aims at creating peace to the world. ------- The movie is excellent in the sense, that it relates calligraphy with the a= rt of the sword. - - - Words are like swords. Please remember that. - - - So when any write an email at this place, or just an email, they aught to r= emember it. My own self included. Peace be with you all." - - - So certainly Power comes from words in E-mails. There was a reason in the old days to the fact that the Swords in country o= f Birbal the wise was Tounge-Shaped.=20 :-) from M. Sufilight=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Drpsionic@aol.com=20 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:20 PM Subject: Re: Theos-World Bringing Power to Planning Research The only person who ever said anything about power worth listening to w= as=20 Mao when he said, "Power comes from the barrel of a gun." Everything else is just social tinkering. Chuck the Heretic _www.charlescosimano.com=20 In a message dated 9/30/2009 10:52:13 A.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 schuller@alpheus.org writes: Dear Morten, About Flyvbjerg's relevance I stated the following: His relevance to us is twofold: 1) His research might help to understand some of the processes going on=20 with the development of the roads and high-ways possibly on and around Ad= yar,=20 and based on that understanding, to be more effective in having our voice= =20 heard. 2) His research is eminently applicable to the TS and that on any level.= =20 He beliefs in the values of democratic participation and transparency, bu= t=20 sees the need of an analysis of power as it is actually yielded and the=20 relations it engenders. One of his main concerns is the relation between= =20 rationality and power regardless of the often fine sounding norms and ide= als an=20 organization might trumpet.=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Morten Nymann Olesen=20 To:=20 _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_=20 (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) _=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 11:13 AM Subject: Re: Theos-World Bringing Power to Planning Research I wonder... About Bent Flyvbjerg: "Flyvbjerg has worked as a consultant to government, regulators,=20 corporations, banks, national audit offices, the EU Commission, and the U= nited=20 Nations. He has been adviser to the UK, Dutch, and Danish governments in= =20 formulating national policies for infrastructure, environment, transporta= tion, and=20 science." _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/)=20 _http://www.sbs.http://wwhttp://www.sbs.http://ww_ (http://www.sbs.ox.ac.= uk/faculty/Flyvbjerg+Bent/)=20 I find it a bit difficult to grasp how this relates to TS ideas and Adyar= ? ------------------------ H. P. Blavatsky said: ..."your vaunted progress and civilization are no better than a host of=20 will-o'-the-..."your vaunted progress and civilization are no better than= a=20 host of will The same can with a certain kind of truth be said of the present globe an= d=20 its sad tendencies in the area of what most people in their minds tend to= =20 call PROGRESS. ........ H. P. Blavatsky said: "ENQUIRER. Then let us begin with the first. What means would you resort= =20 to, in order to promote such a feeling of brotherhood among races that ar= e=20 known to be of the most diversified religions, customs, beliefs, and mode= s=20 of thought? THEOSOPHIST. Allow me to add that which you seem unwilling to express. Of= =20 course we know that with the exception of two remnants of races=E2=80=95t= he Parsees=20 and the Jews=E2=80=95every nation is divided, not merely against all othe= r=20 nations, but even against itself. This is found most prominently among th= e=20 so-called civilized Christian nations. Hence your wonder, and the reason = why our=20 first object appears to you a Utopia. Is it not so? ENQUIRER. Well, yes; but what have you to say against it? THEOSOPHIST. Nothing against the fact; but much about the necessity of=20 removing the causes which make Universal Brotherhood a Utopia at present.= " ....... "ENQUIRER. What are, in your view, these causes? THEOSOPHIST. First and foremost, the natural selfishness of human nature.= =20 This selfishness, instead of being eradicated, is daily strengthened and= =20 stimulated into a ferocious and irresistible feeling by the present relig= ious=20 education, which tends not only to encourage, but positively to justify=20 it. People's ideas about right and wrong have been entirely perverted by = the=20 literal acceptance of the Jewish Bible. All the unselfishness of the=20 altruistic teachings of Jesus has become merely a theoretical subject for= pulpit=20 oratory; while the precepts of practical selfishness taught in the Mosaic= =20 Bible_, against which Christ so vainly preached, have become ingrained in= to=20 the innermost life of the Western nations. "An eye for an eye and a tooth= =20 for a tooth" has come to be the first maxim of your law. Now, I state ope= nly=20 and fearlessly, that the perversity of this doctrine and of so many other= s=20 >Theosophy alone< can eradicate. " (Arrows added to empahsize italics). _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _http://www.phx-http://wwwhttp://wwht= t_=20 (http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/aKEY.htm)=20 Capitalism and greed interfers all over the globe these days. This is the= =20 real state of things. To conquer this greed we need other educational systems and an accept of= =20 that Science already operates in Paradigm, which daily have a tendency of= =20 shifting away from Capitalism and greed, as well as the terrible idea of= =20 human made laws and sentences within "so-called" democracies or other pol= itical=20 systems. H. P. Blavatsky said: "ENQUIRER. But how does Theosophy explain the common origin of man? THEOSOPHIST. By teaching that the root of all nature, objective and=20 subjective, and everything else in the universe, visible and invisible, i= s, was,=20 and ever will be one absolute essence, from which all starts, and into=20 which everything returns. This is Aryan philosophy, fully represented onl= y by=20 the Vedantins, and the Buddhist system. With this object in view, it is t= he=20 duty of all Theosophists to promote in every practical way, and in all=20 countries, the spread of non-sectarian education. " ....... "ENQUIRER. How? Do you expect that your doctrines could ever take hold of= =20 the uneducated masses, when they are so abstruse and difficult that=20 well-educated people can hardly understand them? THEOSOPHIST. You forget one thing, which is that your much-boasted modern= =20 education is precisely that which makes it difficult for you to understan= d=20 Theosophy. Your mind is so full of intellectual subtleties and=20 preconceptions that your natural intuition and perception of the truth ca= nnot act. It=20 does not require metaphysics or education to make a man understand the br= oad=20 truths of Karma and Reincarnation. Look at the millions of poor and=20 uneducated Buddhists and Hindoos, to whom Karma and re-incarnation are so= lid=20 realities, simply because their minds have never been cramped and distort= ed by=20 being forced into an unnatural groove. They have never had the innate hum= an=20 sense of justice perverted in them by being told to believe that their=20 sins would be forgiven because another man had been put to death for thei= r=20 sakes. And the Buddhists, note well, live up to their beliefs without a m= urmur=20 against Karma, or what they regard as a just punishment; whereas the=20 Christian populace neither lives up to its moral ideal, nor accepts its l= ot=20 contentedly. Hence murmuring, and dissatisfaction, and the intensity of t= he=20 struggle for existence in Western lands. ENQUIRER. But this contentedness, which you praise so much, would do away= =20 with all motive for exertion and bring progress to a stand-still. THEOSOPHIST. And we, Theosophists, say that your vaunted progress and=20 civilization are no better than a host of will-o'-the-THEOSOPHIST. And we= ,=20 Theosophists, say that your vaunted progress and civilization are no bett= er than=20 a host of will-o'-the-wisps, flickering over a marsh which exhales a= =20 poisonous and deadly miasma. This, because we see selfishness, crime,=20 immorality, and all the evils imaginable, pouncing upon unfortunate manki= nd from=20 this Pandora's box which you call an age of progress, and increasing pari= =20 pass_u with the growth of your material civilization. At such a price,=20 better the inertia an M. Sufilight ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Govert Schuller=20 To: _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/) _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_=20 (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) _=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 9:54 PM Subject: Theos-World Bringing Power to Planning Research Dear all, Just found (and immersed myself into) the work of a social scientist, Ben= t=20 Flyvbjerg, with both a pragmatic hands-on attitude and a grounding in=20 post-modern philosophy of power. His research is quite impactful in the the field of organizational=20 planning, especially urban development, and on a more theoretical level. = His=20 'best-seller' is "Making Social Science Matter: Why Social Inquiry Fails = and=20 How it Can Succeed Again." _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/)=20 _http://www.amazon.http://wwhttp://wwwhttp://wwhttp://www.http://www.ahtt= p://_=20 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/052177568X/002-3682203-401= 2821)=20 His relevance to us is twofold: 1) His research might help to understand some of the processes going on=20 with the development of the roads and high-ways possibly on and around Ad= yar,=20 and based on that understanding, to be more effective in having our voice= =20 heard. 2) His research is eminently applicable to the TS and that on any level.= =20 He beliefs in the values of democratic participation and transparency, bu= t=20 sees the need of an analysis of power as it is actually yielded and the=20 relations it engenders. One of his main concerns is the relation between= =20 rationality and power regardless of the often fine sounding norms and ide= als an=20 organization might trumpet.=20 He caught my attention because of the term 'phronetic planning research,'= =20 which is how he calls his method. Pronesis is one of Aristotle's=20 'intellectual virtues,' meaning prudence, or applied wisdom (Sophia: with= Sophia=20 being knowledge about the eternal laws of our being and Phronesis being t= he=20 skill to live virtuously in an ever changing context), or savoir vivre, o= r=20 situational, circumspective, deliberative, interpretative, authentic, tem= poral=20 care of our Dasein (be-ing-t/here)He The last string of terms comes from Heidegger, who did an in-depth,=20 sustained phenomenological deconstruction of Aristotole's philosophy incl= uding=20 the virtue of phronesis. According to some Division B of Heidegger's opus= =20 magnum "Being and Time" is one long phenomenological 'un-packing' of huma= n=20 phronetic action seen as situational, circumspective, deliberative,=20 interpretative, authentic, temporal care of our Dasein. The first article is about how he got engaged in his field of research an= d=20 is very enlightening, especially regarding his methodology. The second article is a longer, more abstract venture into a philosophica= l=20 and pragmatic underpinning of his methodology.=20 Bringing Power to Planning Research: One Researcher's Praxis Story By Bent Flyvbjerg, Aalborg University, Denmark ABSTRACT This article provides an answer to what has been calle_d the biggest=20 problem in theorizing and understanding planning, namely the ambivalence about power found among=20 planning researchers, theorists, and students. The author narrates how he came to= =20 work with issues of power. He then gives an example of how the methodology he developed for=20 power studies, called "phronetic planning research," may be employed in practice.=20 Phronetic planning research follows the tradition of power studies running from Machiavelli= =20 and Nietzsche to Michel Foucault and Pierre Bourdieu. It focuses on four value-rational=20 questions: (1) Where are we going with planning? (2) Who gains and who loses, and by which=20 mechanisms of power? (3) Is this development desirable? (4) What should be done? These= =20 questions are exemplified for a specific instance of Scandinavian urban planning. The=20 author finds that the questions, and their answers, make a difference to planning in practice.= =20 They make planning research matter. _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/)=20 _http://flyvbjerg.http://flhttp://flyvbjerghttp://fly_ (http://flyvbjerg.= plan.aau.dk/BringPow3JPERSubmit.pdf)=20 Phronetic Planning Research: Theoretical and Methodological Reflections By Bent Flyvbjerg, Aalborg University, Denmark ABSTRACT This article presents the theoretical and methodological=20 considerations behind a research method which the author calls 'phronetic planning research'. Suc= h=20 research sets out to answer four questions of power and values for specific instances of=20 planning: (1) Where are we going with planning? (2) Who gains and who loses, and by which mechanisms= =20 of power? (3) Is this development desirable? (4) What, if anything, should we do about it?= =20 A central task of phronetic planning research is to provide concrete examples and detailed= =20 narratives of the ways in which power and values work in planning and with what consequences to= =20 whom, and to suggest how relations of power and values could be changed to work with=20 other consequences. Insofar as planning situations become clear, they are clarified by=20 detailed stories of who is doing what to whom. Clarifications of that kind are a p_rincipal concern for=20 phronetic planning research and provide the main link to praxis. _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/)=20 _http://flyvbjerg.http://flhttp://flyvbjehttp://fl_ (http://flyvbjerg.pla= n.aau.dk/PhronPlan7.1PUBL.pdf) _ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _ (http://www.charlescosimano.com/)=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Wed Sep 30 11:47:48 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 56211 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2009 18:47:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.201) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Sep 2009 18:47:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mx01.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.11) by mta2.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Sep 2009 18:47:44 -0000 X-Received: from 56342e5a.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.46.90] helo=khidr) by mx01.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1Mt4A7-0005WL-1V for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 20:44:28 +0200 Message-ID: <001301ca41fe$18fe5460$5a2e3456@khidr> To: References: <302921.9335.qm@web52106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <00a201ca413e$b57ce740$8464a8c0@govert> <000801ca41e0$8803a360$5a2e3456@khidr> <008201ca41dd$600cf440$8464a8c0@govert> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 20:44:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.11 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" Subject: Re: Theos-World Bringing Power to Planning Research X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=ZLWKCBENfHDPFT1Uni1EjeplVGoM-me4A2tbcd7Vh9Q2 X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52926 Yes. I know that. And then what? ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Govert Schuller=20 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 4:50 PM Subject: Re: Theos-World Bringing Power to Planning Research Dear Morten, About Flyvbjerg's relevance I stated the following: His relevance to us is twofold: 1) His research might help to understand some of the processes going on w= ith the development of the roads and high-ways possibly on and around Adyar= , and based on that understanding, to be more effective in having our voice= heard. 2) His research is eminently applicable to the TS and that on any level. = He beliefs in the values of democratic participation and transparency, but = sees the need of an analysis of power as it is actually yielded and the rel= ations it engenders. One of his main concerns is the relation between ratio= nality and power regardless of the often fine sounding norms and ideals an = organization might trumpet.=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Morten Nymann Olesen=20 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 11:13 AM Subject: Re: Theos-World Bringing Power to Planning Research I wonder... About Bent Flyvbjerg: "Flyvbjerg has worked as a consultant to government, regulators, corporat= ions, banks, national audit offices, the EU Commission, and the United Nati= ons. He has been adviser to the UK, Dutch, and Danish governments in formul= ating national policies for infrastructure, environment, transportation, an= d science." http://www.sbs.ox.ac.uk/faculty/Flyvbjerg%2BBent/ I find it a bit difficult to grasp how this relates to TS ideas and Adyar= ? ------------------------ H. P. Blavatsky said: ..."your vaunted progress and civilization are no better than a host of w= ill-o'-the-wisps, flickering over a marsh which exhales a poisonous and dea= dly miasma." The same can with a certain kind of truth be said of the present globe an= d its sad tendencies in the area of what most people in their minds tend to= call PROGRESS. ........ H. P. Blavatsky said: "ENQUIRER. Then let us begin with the first. What means would you resort = to, in order to promote such a feeling of brotherhood among races that are = known to be of the most diversified religions, customs, beliefs, and modes = of thought? THEOSOPHIST. Allow me to add that which you seem unwilling to express. Of= course we know that with the exception of two remnants of races=E2=80=95th= e Parsees and the Jews=E2=80=95every nation is divided, not merely against = all other nations, but even against itself. This is found most prominently = among the so-called civilized Christian nations. Hence your wonder, and the= reason why our first object appears to you a Utopia. Is it not so? ENQUIRER. Well, yes; but what have you to say against it? THEOSOPHIST. Nothing against the fact; but much about the necessity of re= moving the causes which make Universal Brotherhood a Utopia at present. " ....... "ENQUIRER. What are, in your view, these causes? THEOSOPHIST. First and foremost, the natural selfishness of human nature.= This selfishness, instead of being eradicated, is daily strengthened and s= timulated into a ferocious and irresistible feeling by the present religiou= s education, which tends not only to encourage, but positively to justify i= t. People's ideas about right and wrong have been entirely perverted by the= literal acceptance of the Jewish Bible. All the unselfishness of the altru= istic teachings of Jesus has become merely a theoretical subject for pulpit= oratory; while the precepts of practical selfishness taught in the Mosaic = Bible, against which Christ so vainly preached, have become ingrained into = the innermost life of the Western nations. "An eye for an eye and a tooth f= or a tooth" has come to be the first maxim of your law. Now, I state openly= and fearlessly, that the perversity of this doctrine and of so many others= >Theosophy alone< can eradicate. " (Arrows added to empahsize italics). http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/aKEY.htm Capitalism and greed interfers all over the globe these days. This is the= real state of things. To conquer this greed we need other educational systems and an accept of = that Science already operates in Paradigm, which daily have a tendency of s= hifting away from Capitalism and greed, as well as the terrible idea of hum= an made laws and sentences within "so-called" democracies or other politica= l systems. H. P. Blavatsky said: "ENQUIRER. But how does Theosophy explain the common origin of man? THEOSOPHIST. By teaching that the root of all nature, objective and subje= ctive, and everything else in the universe, visible and invisible, is, was,= and ever will be one absolute essence, from which all starts, and into whi= ch everything returns. This is Aryan philosophy, fully represented only by = the Vedantins, and the Buddhist system. With this object in view, it is the= duty of all Theosophists to promote in every practical way, and in all cou= ntries, the spread of non-sectarian education. " ....... "ENQUIRER. How? Do you expect that your doctrines could ever take hold of= the uneducated masses, when they are so abstruse and difficult that well-e= ducated people can hardly understand them? THEOSOPHIST. You forget one thing, which is that your much-boasted modern= education is precisely that which makes it difficult for you to understand= Theosophy. Your mind is so full of intellectual subtleties and preconcepti= ons that your natural intuition and perception of the truth cannot act. It = does not require metaphysics or education to make a man understand the broa= d truths of Karma and Reincarnation. Look at the millions of poor and unedu= cated Buddhists and Hindoos, to whom Karma and re-incarnation are solid rea= lities, simply because their minds have never been cramped and distorted by= being forced into an unnatural groove. They have never had the innate huma= n sense of justice perverted in them by being told to believe that their si= ns would be forgiven because another man had been put to death for their sa= kes. And the Buddhists, note well, live up to their beliefs without a murmu= r against Karma, or what they regard as a just punishment; whereas the Chri= stian populace neither lives up to its moral ideal, nor accepts its lot con= tentedly. Hence murmuring, and dissatisfaction, and the intensity of the st= ruggle for existence in Western lands. ENQUIRER. But this contentedness, which you praise so much, would do away= with all motive for exertion and bring progress to a stand-still. THEOSOPHIST. And we, Theosophists, say that your vaunted progress and civ= ilization are no better than a host of will-o'-the-wisps, flickering over a= marsh which exhales a poisonous and deadly miasma. This, because we see se= lfishness, crime, immorality, and all the evils imaginable, pouncing upon u= nfortunate mankind from this Pandora's box which you call an age of progres= s, and increasing pari passu with the growth of your material civilization.= At such a price, better the inertia and inactivity of Buddhist countries, = which have arisen only as a consequence of ages of political slavery. " (p.= 44, 245-248). M. Sufilight ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Govert Schuller=20 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 9:54 PM Subject: Theos-World Bringing Power to Planning Research Dear all, Just found (and immersed myself into) the work of a social scientist, Ben= t Flyvbjerg, with both a pragmatic hands-on attitude and a grounding in pos= t-modern philosophy of power. His research is quite impactful in the the field of organizational planni= ng, especially urban development, and on a more theoretical level. His 'bes= t-seller' is "Making Social Science Matter: Why Social Inquiry Fails and Ho= w it Can Succeed Again." http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/052177568X/002-3682203-4012= 821 His relevance to us is twofold: 1) His research might help to understand some of the processes going on w= ith the development of the roads and high-ways possibly on and around Adyar= , and based on that understanding, to be more effective in having our voice= heard. 2) His research is eminently applicable to the TS and that on any level. = He beliefs in the values of democratic participation and transparency, but = sees the need of an analysis of power as it is actually yielded and the rel= ations it engenders. One of his main concerns is the relation between ratio= nality and power regardless of the often fine sounding norms and ideals an = organization might trumpet.=20 He caught my attention because of the term 'phronetic planning research,'= which is how he calls his method. Pronesis is one of Aristotle's 'intellec= tual virtues,' meaning prudence, or applied wisdom (Sophia: with Sophia bei= ng knowledge about the eternal laws of our being and Phronesis being the sk= ill to live virtuously in an ever changing context), or savoir vivre, or si= tuational, circumspective, deliberative, interpretative, authentic, tempora= l care of our Dasein (be-ing-t/here).=20 The last string of terms comes from Heidegger, who did an in-depth, susta= ined phenomenological deconstruction of Aristotole's philosophy including t= he virtue of phronesis. According to some Division B of Heidegger's opus ma= gnum "Being and Time" is one long phenomenological 'un-packing' of human ph= ronetic action seen as situational, circumspective, deliberative, interpret= ative, authentic, temporal care of our Dasein. The first article is about how he got engaged in his field of research an= d is very enlightening, especially regarding his methodology. The second article is a longer, more abstract venture into a philosophica= l and pragmatic underpinning of his methodology.=20 Bringing Power to Planning Research: One Researcher's Praxis Story By Bent Flyvbjerg, Aalborg University, Denmark ABSTRACT This article provides an answer to what has been called the biggest probl= em in theorizing and understanding planning, namely the ambivalence about power found among pl= anning researchers, theorists, and students. The author narrates how he came to = work with issues of power. He then gives an example of how the methodology he developed for p= ower studies, called "phronetic planning research," may be employed in practice. Phrone= tic planning research follows the tradition of power studies running from Machiavelli = and Nietzsche to Michel Foucault and Pierre Bourdieu. It focuses on four value-rational qu= estions: (1) Where are we going with planning? (2) Who gains and who loses, and by which mec= hanisms of power? (3) Is this development desirable? (4) What should be done? These = questions are exemplified for a specific instance of Scandinavian urban planning. The a= uthor finds that the questions, and their answers, make a difference to planning in practice. = They make planning research matter. http://flyvbjerg.plan.aau.dk/BringPow3JPERSubmit.pdf Phronetic Planning Research: Theoretical and Methodological Reflections By Bent Flyvbjerg, Aalborg University, Denmark ABSTRACT This article presents the theoretical and methodological conside= rations behind a research method which the author calls 'phronetic planning research'. Suc= h research sets out to answer four questions of power and values for specific instances of plann= ing: (1) Where are we going with planning? (2) Who gains and who loses, and by which mechanisms= of power? (3) Is this development desirable? (4) What, if anything, should we do about it?= A central task of phronetic planning research is to provide concrete examples and detailed = narratives of the ways in which power and values work in planning and with what consequences to = whom, and to suggest how relations of power and values could be changed to work with o= ther consequences. Insofar as planning situations become clear, they are clarified by detail= ed stories of who is doing what to whom. Clarifications of that kind are a principal concern for phr= onetic planning research and provide the main link to praxis. http://flyvbjerg.plan.aau.dk/PhronPlan7.1PUBL.pdf [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Augoeides-222@comcast.net Wed Sep 30 12:18:52 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: augoeides-222@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 58585 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2009 19:18:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m7.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Sep 2009 19:18:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO QMTA02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net) (76.96.30.24) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Sep 2009 19:18:49 -0000 X-Received: from OMTA04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.35]) by QMTA02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id n2nr1c0030lTkoCA27JnuL; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:18:47 +0000 X-Received: from sz0103.ev.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.26.163]) by OMTA04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id n7Jm1c00A3X8bDG8Q7JmAK; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:18:46 +0000 Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:18:45 +0000 (UTC) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <374752379.6967041254338325306.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <001701ca41fe$1a627840$5a2e3456@khidr> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Zimbra 5.0.16_GA_2927.RHEL5_64 (ZimbraWebClient - FF3.0 (Win)/5.0.16_GA_2927.RHEL5_64) X-Originating-IP: 76.96.30.24 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net Subject: Re: Theos-World Bringing Power to Planning Research X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=314500470; y=DH94NUaveJHpzWr_ETccYtnCet-tfPB4ew4A95eltGWnR1eoCzuwjNQ545PDPO-9 X-Yahoo-Profile: sessesgenbarpharanges Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52927 Morten,=20 I agree the movie was excellent.=20 \John=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" =20 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 11:44:55 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacifi= c=20 Subject: Re: Theos-World Bringing Power to Planning Research=20 Dear Chuck and friends=20 My views are:=20 Yes, perhaps.=20 I will just choose to repeat the views I e-mailed more than 3 years ago her= e at Theos-talk:=20 "All this talk reminds me of the Chinese movie named HERO.=20 A beautiful movie on a great legend.=20 The movie by Zhang is set 2,200 years ago, during the reign of the King of = Qin=20 (Chen Daoming), the emperor who united China and built the Great Wall.=20 The emperor realises the wisdom behind a sign given to him by the leading r= ole in the movie=20 called "Nameless".=20 The Sign is called "Everything under the heaven".=20 The sign has three levels of interpretation.=20 It sort of relates to Arjuna's struggle on the spiritual path in the famous= =20 script called Bhagavad Gita.=20 The emperor says just about the following, when he understands the meaning = of the sign:=20 1.The unity between Sword and man, makes the master capeable of using anyth= ing=20 as a weapon, even a straw of grass.=20 2. When the sword is in the heart, then it is not needed in the hand,=20 and then one is able to strike ones enemy even at a distance of a hundred s= teps.=20 3. The highest aim of the master of the sword is to=20 neither have the sword in the hand or in the heart.=20 When this happens the master of the sword has create peace with the world.= =20 He hold it sacred not to kill, but aims at creating peace to the world.=20 -------=20 The movie is excellent in the sense, that it relates calligraphy with the a= rt of=20 the sword.=20 - - - Words are like swords. Please remember that. - - -=20 So when any write an email at this place, or just an email, they aught to r= emember it.=20 My own self included.=20 Peace be with you all."=20 - - -=20 So certainly Power comes from words in E-mails.=20 There was a reason in the old days to the fact that the Swords in country o= f Birbal the wise was Tounge-Shaped.=20 :-)=20 from=20 M. Sufilight=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Drpsionic@aol.com=20 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:20 PM=20 Subject: Re: Theos-World Bringing Power to Planning Research=20 The only person who ever said anything about power worth listening to was=20 Mao when he said, "Power comes from the barrel of a gun."=20 Everything else is just social tinkering.=20 Chuck the Heretic=20 _www.charlescosimano.com=20 In a message dated 9/30/2009 10:52:13 A.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 schuller@alpheus.org writes:=20 Dear Morten,=20 About Flyvbjerg's relevance I stated the following:=20 His relevance to us is twofold:=20 1) His research might help to understand some of the processes going on=20 with the development of the roads and high-ways possibly on and around Adya= r,=20 and based on that understanding, to be more effective in having our voice=20 heard.=20 2) His research is eminently applicable to the TS and that on any level.=20 He beliefs in the values of democratic participation and transparency, but= =20 sees the need of an analysis of power as it is actually yielded and the=20 relations it engenders. One of his main concerns is the relation between=20 rationality and power regardless of the often fine sounding norms and ideal= s an=20 organization might trumpet.=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Morten Nymann Olesen=20 To:=20 _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_=20 (mailto: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) _=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 11:13 AM=20 Subject: Re: Theos-World Bringing Power to Planning Research=20 I wonder...=20 About Bent Flyvbjerg:=20 "Flyvbjerg has worked as a consultant to government, regulators,=20 corporations, banks, national audit offices, the EU Commission, and the Uni= ted=20 Nations. He has been adviser to the UK, Dutch, and Danish governments in=20 formulating national policies for infrastructure, environment, transportati= on, and=20 science."=20 _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )=20 _ http://www.sbs.http://wwhttp://www.sbs.http://ww_ ( http://www.sbs.ox.ac.= uk/faculty/Flyvbjerg+Bent/ )=20 I find it a bit difficult to grasp how this relates to TS ideas and Adyar?= =20 ------------------------=20 H. P. Blavatsky said:=20 ..."your vaunted progress and civilization are no better than a host of=20 will-o'-the-..."your vaunted progress and civilization are no better than a= =20 host of will=20 The same can with a certain kind of truth be said of the present globe and= =20 its sad tendencies in the area of what most people in their minds tend to=20 call PROGRESS.=20 ........=20 H. P. Blavatsky said:=20 "ENQUIRER. Then let us begin with the first. What means would you resort=20 to, in order to promote such a feeling of brotherhood among races that are= =20 known to be of the most diversified religions, customs, beliefs, and modes= =20 of thought?=20 THEOSOPHIST. Allow me to add that which you seem unwilling to express. Of=20 course we know that with the exception of two remnants of races=E2=80=95the= Parsees=20 and the Jews=E2=80=95every nation is divided, not merely against all other= =20 nations, but even against itself. This is found most prominently among the= =20 so-called civilized Christian nations. Hence your wonder, and the reason wh= y our=20 first object appears to you a Utopia. Is it not so?=20 ENQUIRER. Well, yes; but what have you to say against it?=20 THEOSOPHIST. Nothing against the fact; but much about the necessity of=20 removing the causes which make Universal Brotherhood a Utopia at present. "= =20 .......=20 "ENQUIRER. What are, in your view, these causes?=20 THEOSOPHIST. First and foremost, the natural selfishness of human nature.=20 This selfishness, instead of being eradicated, is daily strengthened and=20 stimulated into a ferocious and irresistible feeling by the present religio= us=20 education, which tends not only to encourage, but positively to justify=20 it. People's ideas about right and wrong have been entirely perverted by th= e=20 literal acceptance of the Jewish Bible. All the unselfishness of the=20 altruistic teachings of Jesus has become merely a theoretical subject for p= ulpit=20 oratory; while the precepts of practical selfishness taught in the Mosaic=20 Bible_, against which Christ so vainly preached, have become ingrained into= =20 the innermost life of the Western nations. "An eye for an eye and a tooth=20 for a tooth" has come to be the first maxim of your law. Now, I state openl= y=20 and fearlessly, that the perversity of this doctrine and of so many others= =20 >Theosophy alone< can eradicate. " (Arrows added to empahsize italics).=20 _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _ http://www.phx-http://wwwhttp://wwh= tt_=20 ( http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/aKEY.htm )=20 Capitalism and greed interfers all over the globe these days. This is the=20 real state of things.=20 To conquer this greed we need other educational systems and an accept of=20 that Science already operates in Paradigm, which daily have a tendency of=20 shifting away from Capitalism and greed, as well as the terrible idea of=20 human made laws and sentences within "so-called" democracies or other polit= ical=20 systems.=20 H. P. Blavatsky said:=20 "ENQUIRER. But how does Theosophy explain the common origin of man?=20 THEOSOPHIST. By teaching that the root of all nature, objective and=20 subjective, and everything else in the universe, visible and invisible, is,= was,=20 and ever will be one absolute essence, from which all starts, and into=20 which everything returns. This is Aryan philosophy, fully represented only = by=20 the Vedantins, and the Buddhist system. With this object in view, it is the= =20 duty of all Theosophists to promote in every practical way, and in all=20 countries, the spread of non-sectarian education. "=20 .......=20 "ENQUIRER. How? Do you expect that your doctrines could ever take hold of=20 the uneducated masses, when they are so abstruse and difficult that=20 well-educated people can hardly understand them?=20 THEOSOPHIST. You forget one thing, which is that your much-boasted modern=20 education is precisely that which makes it difficult for you to understand= =20 Theosophy. Your mind is so full of intellectual subtleties and=20 preconceptions that your natural intuition and perception of the truth cann= ot act. It=20 does not require metaphysics or education to make a man understand the broa= d=20 truths of Karma and Reincarnation. Look at the millions of poor and=20 uneducated Buddhists and Hindoos, to whom Karma and re-incarnation are soli= d=20 realities, simply because their minds have never been cramped and distorted= by=20 being forced into an unnatural groove. They have never had the innate human= =20 sense of justice perverted in them by being told to believe that their=20 sins would be forgiven because another man had been put to death for their= =20 sakes. And the Buddhists, note well, live up to their beliefs without a mur= mur=20 against Karma, or what they regard as a just punishment; whereas the=20 Christian populace neither lives up to its moral ideal, nor accepts its lot= =20 contentedly. Hence murmuring, and dissatisfaction, and the intensity of the= =20 struggle for existence in Western lands.=20 ENQUIRER. But this contentedness, which you praise so much, would do away=20 with all motive for exertion and bring progress to a stand-still.=20 THEOSOPHIST. And we, Theosophists, say that your vaunted progress and=20 civilization are no better than a host of will-o'-the-THEOSOPHIST. And we,= =20 Theosophists, say that your vaunted progress and civilization are no better= than=20 a host of will-o'-the-wisps, flickering over a marsh which exhales a=20 poisonous and deadly miasma. This, because we see selfishness, crime,=20 immorality, and all the evils imaginable, pouncing upon unfortunate mankind= from=20 this Pandora's box which you call an age of progress, and increasing pari=20 pass_u with the growth of your material civilization. At such a price,=20 better the inertia an=20 M. Sufilight=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Govert Schuller=20 To: _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_=20 (mailto: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) _=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 9:54 PM=20 Subject: Theos-World Bringing Power to Planning Research=20 Dear all,=20 Just found (and immersed myself into) the work of a social scientist, Bent= =20 Flyvbjerg, with both a pragmatic hands-on attitude and a grounding in=20 post-modern philosophy of power.=20 His research is quite impactful in the the field of organizational=20 planning, especially urban development, and on a more theoretical level. Hi= s=20 'best-seller' is "Making Social Science Matter: Why Social Inquiry Fails an= d=20 How it Can Succeed Again."=20 _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )=20 _ http://www.amazon.http://wwhttp://wwwhttp://wwhttp://www.http://www.ahttp= ://_=20 ( http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/052177568X/002-3682203-4012= 821 )=20 His relevance to us is twofold:=20 1) His research might help to understand some of the processes going on=20 with the development of the roads and high-ways possibly on and around Adya= r,=20 and based on that understanding, to be more effective in having our voice=20 heard.=20 2) His research is eminently applicable to the TS and that on any level.=20 He beliefs in the values of democratic participation and transparency, but= =20 sees the need of an analysis of power as it is actually yielded and the=20 relations it engenders. One of his main concerns is the relation between=20 rationality and power regardless of the often fine sounding norms and ideal= s an=20 organization might trumpet.=20 He caught my attention because of the term 'phronetic planning research,'=20 which is how he calls his method. Pronesis is one of Aristotle's=20 'intellectual virtues,' meaning prudence, or applied wisdom (Sophia: with S= ophia=20 being knowledge about the eternal laws of our being and Phronesis being the= =20 skill to live virtuously in an ever changing context), or savoir vivre, or= =20 situational, circumspective, deliberative, interpretative, authentic, tempo= ral=20 care of our Dasein (be-ing-t/here)He=20 The last string of terms comes from Heidegger, who did an in-depth,=20 sustained phenomenological deconstruction of Aristotole's philosophy includ= ing=20 the virtue of phronesis. According to some Division B of Heidegger's opus=20 magnum "Being and Time" is one long phenomenological 'un-packing' of human= =20 phronetic action seen as situational, circumspective, deliberative,=20 interpretative, authentic, temporal care of our Dasein.=20 The first article is about how he got engaged in his field of research and= =20 is very enlightening, especially regarding his methodology.=20 The second article is a longer, more abstract venture into a philosophical= =20 and pragmatic underpinning of his methodology.=20 Bringing Power to Planning Research: One Researcher's Praxis Story=20 By Bent Flyvbjerg, Aalborg University, Denmark=20 ABSTRACT=20 This article provides an answer to what has been calle_d the biggest=20 problem in theorizing and=20 understanding planning, namely the ambivalence about power found among=20 planning=20 researchers, theorists, and students. The author narrates how he came to=20 work with issues of=20 power. He then gives an example of how the methodology he developed for=20 power studies,=20 called "phronetic planning research," may be employed in practice.=20 Phronetic planning=20 research follows the tradition of power studies running from Machiavelli=20 and Nietzsche to=20 Michel Foucault and Pierre Bourdieu. It focuses on four value-rational=20 questions: (1) Where=20 are we going with planning? (2) Who gains and who loses, and by which=20 mechanisms of=20 power? (3) Is this development desirable? (4) What should be done? These=20 questions are=20 exemplified for a specific instance of Scandinavian urban planning. The=20 author finds that the=20 questions, and their answers, make a difference to planning in practice.=20 They make planning=20 research matter.=20 _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )=20 _ http://flyvbjerg.http://flhttp://flyvbjerghttp://fly_ ( http://flyvbjerg.= plan.aau.dk/BringPow3JPERSubmit.pdf )=20 Phronetic Planning Research: Theoretical and Methodological Reflections=20 By Bent Flyvbjerg, Aalborg University, Denmark=20 ABSTRACT This article presents the theoretical and methodological=20 considerations behind a=20 research method which the author calls 'phronetic planning research'. Such= =20 research sets out to=20 answer four questions of power and values for specific instances of=20 planning: (1) Where are we=20 going with planning? (2) Who gains and who loses, and by which mechanisms=20 of power? (3) Is=20 this development desirable? (4) What, if anything, should we do about it?=20 A central task of=20 phronetic planning research is to provide concrete examples and detailed=20 narratives of the ways=20 in which power and values work in planning and with what consequences to=20 whom, and to=20 suggest how relations of power and values could be changed to work with=20 other consequences.=20 Insofar as planning situations become clear, they are clarified by=20 detailed stories of who is doing=20 what to whom. Clarifications of that kind are a p_rincipal concern for=20 phronetic planning research=20 and provide the main link to praxis.=20 _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )=20 _ http://flyvbjerg.http://flhttp://flyvbjehttp://fl_ ( http://flyvbjerg.pla= n.aau.dk/PhronPlan7.1PUBL.pdf ) _=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]=20 _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Wed Sep 30 19:41:47 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 34038 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2009 02:41:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.45) by m3.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Oct 2009 02:41:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52112.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.115) by mta2.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Oct 2009 02:41:40 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 99448 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Oct 2009 02:41:36 -0000 Message-ID: <302995.99413.qm@web52112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: jOUsNcMVM1lWWoipZuWKeA8nz6t3lJTo6WCdBdtfTQyhCvrTbbDfCjI3sg0s8YifBnGuFpwQbxLPB1qy73_Q.Ekal.cOI2ZAno5Tyz74yh0w.Xcj.4Z.dYAS8dghlz9H9dPlRdRuef__QyehI44OuJdrFxPrl4H6Ouy5cPjFEK.BSFxyETXeaBM_yyZIZZe5n7SGEWzIzC3nkec_zA7d271hYvrVjdg.yqJnNwHR9HH3aoMItpMGH8feBeaJhVQqBsUJdq_BdnHobrweu5QGO1u4x5RIYKQtCWUFHPTVlfHxqB3OFTF7mqJTpZJVtgEyqVfw.kbFf5utrnTA0Km29etvWEbkH8eyac8hHN6_7x4WRs8VShkSWmC97Ky.JiPpo8ZEpJp5bIpjSk6dPy.2XZM8NuoskJlRkbuLCeIUKiOM X-Received: from [122.108.22.41] by web52112.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:41:35 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/157.18 YahooMailWebService/0.7.347.3 Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:41:35 -0700 (PDT) To: Theosophy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.115 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Nibura X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=6Pj1KhAxAFgktjX_2OV9TdNm3i0Ah_SkZ6l-xazPIDN62CTmdQ X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52928 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DwTlqtoQf3Ik&feature=3Drelated _____________________________________________________________________= _____________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ From Augoeides-222@comcast.net Wed Sep 30 23:42:53 2009 Return-Path: X-Sender: augoeides-222@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 42306 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2009 06:42:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (98.137.34.44) by m5.grp.re1.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Oct 2009 06:42:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO QMTA07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net) (76.96.30.64) by mta1.grp.sp2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Oct 2009 06:42:46 -0000 X-Received: from OMTA19.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.76]) by QMTA07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id nJhb1c0021eYJf8A7JibmB; Thu, 01 Oct 2009 06:42:35 +0000 X-Received: from sz0103.ev.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.26.163]) by OMTA19.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id nJia1c0043X8bDG01JiaPq; Thu, 01 Oct 2009 06:42:35 +0000 Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 06:42:35 +0000 (UTC) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <755817624.7196881254379355010.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <770270926.7196511254379029867.JavaMail.root@sz0103a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Zimbra 5.0.16_GA_2927.RHEL5_64 (ZimbraWebClient - FF3.0 (Win)/5.0.16_GA_2927.RHEL5_64) X-Originating-IP: 76.96.30.64 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net Subject: Re: Theos-World Nibura X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=314500470; y=QtSqMaTIIH8Da49dcH424_YhY1OELtboJJBf_3hnYOkc0ZxnBMJazQ7iOULhZL4Y X-Yahoo-Profile: sessesgenbarpharanges Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 52929 Cass, Sorry, He is only speculating and inerror in my book. A comet isn't a Planet no matter how much you want it to be. I have watched dozens of comets proceed into the sun on SOHO since 1999 and none of them pulled Mercury into the Sun lol. I don't agree that the Comet Near was the Planet Nibiru either. Google Pavel Smuty Narmer Palette. Pavel Smutny was a NASA Scientist that specialized in Orbital Mechanics and Feep Space Communications. His analysis of the Dendera Temple and Narmer Palette that reveals the historic trajectory of the twelth planet through the solar system seems the best I have read so far. The Mass of the Comet and the Mass of Jupiter are two different things, and I haven't seen any comet that hhad the mass of even a small planet yet. Regards, John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cass Silva" To: "Theosophy" Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:41:35 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Theos-World Nibura http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTlqtoQf3Ik&feature=related __________________________________________________________ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]