From spirit777child@yahoo.co.uk Tue Apr 01 00:17:24 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: spirit777child@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 32897 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2008 07:15:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Apr 2008 07:15:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n4.bullet.mail.re4.yahoo.com) (206.190.56.23) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Apr 2008 07:15:57 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.230.28] by n4.bullet.re4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Apr 2008 07:15:56 -0000 X-Received: from [66.196.97.154] by t1.bullet.re2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Apr 2008 07:15:56 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp207.mail.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Apr 2008 07:15:56 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-5 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 515625.25760.bm@omp207.mail.re3.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 47059 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Apr 2008 07:15:55 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: RF68JuIVM1litxo85txTXWIbKCz4Z3.TEAZgVlVSlvGQmcbUIdwP8p9v3y8DtaPAGtemutmsfHQX9sbfQPBPvu7nBNxuhKMGr2Kk_1qkNG_pp73Qp2LycOVyfgUeb7J4ulw04eX.5MBmoXxGoTsuKTA- X-Received: from [92.234.23.202] by web23411.mail.ird.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 01 Apr 2008 08:15:54 BST Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 08:15:54 +0100 (BST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <902142.85157.qm@web52601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <426047.25669.qm@web23411.mail.ird.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.56.23 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Antonio/Tony None Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Music, the language of the Soul X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=252124750; y=535gTI1A6fAmJT9lE0ckZFPbRUVl5tgW2mZr42P5wwnFJ2Ss9U4cANk X-Yahoo-Profile: spirit777child Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43453 Yes, absoloutly. Martin wrote: Yes will link you to it when its readx. My friend is jewish btw and he respects the work of the others. So only if they agree I will give it free...:-) --- Antonio/Tony None wrote: > Any chance of a listen? I am working with a lot of > arabic sounds at the minute. Would be interesting to > hear what its all about! > > Cheers. > > Martin wrote: > I just got this email from a friend, > which proves to me, music has no > prejudice :-) > > Hello friends, > > As you know I live in Israel, the 2 weeks I'm > Mixing here (here > means at my studio) > a new disk for an Arab Palestinian, a great guy, > and a very good > musician !! > Most of the music was recorded in Amman (Jordan) > some of the > musician playing there > were brought specaially from Egyps (as they are > playing authentic > rare arab instruments) > some tracks recorded in Nazareth, no one of the > musicians (exept of > the guy I'm working with) > knows a thing about the other musicians - and of > caurse how the music > will come out - as each Musician was playing only > with 1 instrument > prerecorded as a guide line.. > I must say it's very special, all the > situation,from all > aspects..... and so is the music !!!! > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! for Good helps you make a difference > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > __________________________________________________________ No Cost - Get a month of Blockbuster Total Access now. Sweet deal for Yahoo! users and friends. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text1.com --------------------------------- Sent from Yahoo! Mail. A Smarter Inbox. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Thu Apr 03 17:33:14 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 90182 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2008 00:33:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Apr 2008 00:33:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.104) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Apr 2008 00:33:11 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 74552 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Apr 2008 00:33:10 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: miGcDSEVM1nl4ZKonzvl0jySUxEmfUmm4Kmc4KFeg8aBbd8ivLVxjVU3Mf_M8tkUOt.uBEVyw_UPNOtKkF7U3Xj1Hgtzo_kGzrbOap0WBt28rgj_XMjXq7eMAW65vbGFHa7jjphGnFDNAWQ20wr2DWq4hw-- X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 03 Apr 2008 17:33:10 PDT Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 17:33:10 -0700 (PDT) To: Theosophy MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <674438.72930.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.104 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: 2012 Enigma X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=NSj_TMTC2w2W1EoaW9BC64313_Ss1mBtRnxGVn12JRUcWxQ1bg X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43454 Call me na=EFve, but I think there is something in what this person has to = say. The video is long, 2 hours, and may bleed a little at the end, but ba= sically it covers. =20=20=20 The first 30 minutes:- Our chakras as a means to raising consciousness without meditation. Proc= ess involves collapsing the chakras into nested spheres, to what they call = Zero Point, the centre being the wormgate to other dimensions. The physical component we use is the pineal gland. =20=20=20 Connections between the Vatican =96 Egypt =96 multiduous symbols of Pine = Cones (which represent the pineal gland =96 as this is what the pineal glan= d looks like. Also Dionysus, Buddha, Shiva are all depicted with pine cone= . The staff of the Pope has a pine cone. King Tut shown with a pine cone s= uggesting that knowledge of the pineal (symbolically represented as a pinec= one) is the knowledge of higher forces. =20=20=20 Very interesting segment on the real history of the USA and how it is con= trolled by the British through the Illuminati. =20=20=20 Second 30 minutes (for memory) Sci Fi fans will love this =96 Montauk chair and how the Fibonnaci sequen= ce of 13 comes into effect 21/12/2012 =96 to do with the pulse of the earth= (and subsequently ours) vibrating from 7.5 in 1986 to the predicted 13 in = 2012, which can cause changes to our DNA. =20=20=20 Third 30 minutes Discusses Codex Alimentarius and how it is the strategic plan of the Illu= minati to dessimate the population from 6 billion to 500 million through bo= vine growth hormanes, fluoridation, and anti-biotics. Also discusses Agenda 21 Protocol =20=20=20 I would be interested in getting some feedback if anyone is interested in= doing so. Also I am not convinced about alien co-operation with earthling= s here, but the rest of what David Willcox said has much food for thought i= n it. =20=20=20 Cass =20=20=20 =20=20=20 =20=20=20 http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=3D3267 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster To= tal Access, No Cost. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Thu Apr 03 18:38:51 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 88744 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2008 01:38:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Apr 2008 01:38:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52105.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.108) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Apr 2008 01:38:48 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 53566 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Apr 2008 01:38:47 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: NOdhJpcVM1kDKoDdkQXFxOpeDfkxA.BVIvKX0XJ7TcwHIPXIppszSFDXTaMEgZWA3Rn.ICbXqMLJT0kNi6Q21GcKv29Y7o3O3ijS1qaJtNXyrOgDBD_cegKYFn49QHWxF_K.enIi08YIJXpUK6T.w7.faA-- X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52105.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:38:47 PDT Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 18:38:47 -0700 (PDT) To: Theosophy MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <868513.51546.qm@web52105.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.108 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: A must watch X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=gdpCpp45l0vW79evNA7kKxMHg_zXST6RdLfKloX3kFrEFtlAmQ X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43455 Subject: [monasterion] scientist describes stroke - her own http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=UyyjU8fzEYU --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Thu Apr 03 19:47:09 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 25021 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2008 02:47:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Apr 2008 02:47:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Apr 2008 02:47:06 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d1f.2052a3c1 (37129) for ; Thu, 3 Apr 2008 22:46:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from Webmail-mg09 (webmail-mg09.sim.aol.com [64.12.142.157]) by cia-ma02.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMA023-910947f596a2fd; Thu, 03 Apr 2008 22:46:58 -0400 References: <674438.72930.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 22:46:58 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 69.217.171.151 In-Reply-To: <674438.72930.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 35790-STANDARD X-Received: from 69.217.171.151 by Webmail-mg09.sim.aol.com (64.12.142.157) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Thu, 03 Apr 2008 22:46:58 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA641549128F40-101C-11AA@Webmail-mg09.sim.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.144.208 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World 2012 Enigma X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=XHeDMkeGbuKofNGDeJbwy0pHkKs5PF_1zeO1Lh6FP9v5HCPc1g X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43456 Well, I matched my equipment against the Montauk Device in 1992 and beat it= so... The other thing to remember is that we have records that go back beyond 4,0= 00 BC, and no sign the world ended then either.=C2=A0 Of course maybe somet= hing terrible might happen to Gautemala in 2012, but I fear the worst we wi= ll have to deal with is another US Presidential campaign that year, which m= ay make us all wish the world would come to an end! Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano=20 -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: Theosophy Sent: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 7:33 pm Subject: Theos-World 2012 Enigma Call me na=C3=AFve, but I think there is something in what this person has = to say. The video is long, 2 hours, and may bleed a little at the end, but = basically it covers. The first 30 minutes:- Our chakras as a means to raising consciousness without meditation. Process= involves collapsing the chakras into nested spheres, to what they call Zer= o Point, the centre being the wormgate to other dimensions. The physical component we use is the pineal gland. Connections between the Vatican =E2=80=93 Egypt =E2=80=93 multiduous symbol= s of Pine Cones (which represent the pineal gland =E2=80=93 as this is what= the pineal gland looks like. Also Dionysus, Buddha, Shiva are all depicted= with pine cone. The staff of the Pope has a pine cone. King Tut shown with= a pine cone suggesting that knowledge of the pineal (symbolically represen= ted as a pinecone) is the knowledge of higher forces. Very interesting segment on the real history of the USA and how it is contr= olled by the British through the Illuminati. Second 30 minutes (for memory) Sci Fi fans will love this =E2=80=93 Montauk chair and how the Fibonnaci se= quence of 13 comes into effect 21/12/2012 =E2=80=93 to do with the pulse of= the earth (and subsequently ours) vibrating from 7.5 in 1986 to the predic= ted 13 in 2012, which can cause changes to our DNA. Third 30 minutes Discusses Codex Alimentarius and how it is the strategic plan of the Illumi= nati to dessimate the population from 6 billion to 500 million through bovi= ne growth hormanes, fluoridation, and anti-biotics. Also discusses Agenda 21 Protocol I would be interested in getting some feedback if anyone is interested in d= oing so. Also I am not convinced about alien co-operation with earthlings h= ere, but the rest of what David Willcox said has much food for thought in i= t. Cass http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=3D3267 --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster To= tal Access, No Cost. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Thu Apr 03 20:29:48 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 39416 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2008 03:29:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Apr 2008 03:29:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52107.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.110) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Apr 2008 03:29:45 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 72849 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Apr 2008 03:29:44 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: zS0aa0IVM1nUbL7nW8ahHd3cNlNhWF8HVsUeENh.t8_2cCRA782BjdDzPNaTcbDMCVOKEAuHl5ZNjXRtW0wI_44lQRAJjRKw4OEDXjQfMHFDXM0HmmBE15jE0y1pCsTTKpTMfEPiuQIlra28HPUbd85tFR6aviM- X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52107.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 03 Apr 2008 20:29:44 PDT Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 20:29:44 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8CA641549128F40-101C-11AA@Webmail-mg09.sim.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <739561.72373.qm@web52107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.110 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World 2012 Enigma X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=W7mDc7IVrUJaZZkotEiQ1a44mhoR-JrXzqauj09zKlw_DKaGFw X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43457 He doesn't mention the world ending, so not sure where you are coming from? Cass Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: Well, I matched my equipment against the Montauk Device in 1992 a= nd beat it so... The other thing to remember is that we have records that go back beyond 4,0= 00 BC, and no sign the world ended then either.=C2 Of course maybe somethi= ng terrible might happen to Gautemala in 2012, but I fear the worst we will= have to deal with is another US Presidential campaign that year, which may= make us all wish the world would come to an end! Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano=20 -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: Theosophy Sent: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 7:33 pm Subject: Theos-World 2012 Enigma Call me na=C3=AFve, but I think there is something in what this person has = to say. The video is long, 2 hours, and may bleed a little at the end, but = basically it covers. The first 30 minutes:- Our chakras as a means to raising consciousness without meditation. Process= involves collapsing the chakras into nested spheres, to what they call Zer= o Point, the centre being the wormgate to other dimensions. The physical component we use is the pineal gland. Connections between the Vatican =E2=80=93 Egypt =E2=80=93 multiduous symbol= s of Pine Cones (which represent the pineal gland =E2=80=93 as this is what= the pineal gland looks like. Also Dionysus, Buddha, Shiva are all depicted= with pine cone. The staff of the Pope has a pine cone. King Tut shown with= a pine cone suggesting that knowledge of the pineal (symbolically represen= ted as a pinecone) is the knowledge of higher forces. Very interesting segment on the real history of the USA and how it is contr= olled by the British through the Illuminati. Second 30 minutes (for memory) Sci Fi fans will love this =E2=80=93 Montauk chair and how the Fibonnaci se= quence of 13 comes into effect 21/12/2012 =E2=80=93 to do with the pulse of= the earth (and subsequently ours) vibrating from 7.5 in 1986 to the predic= ted 13 in 2012, which can cause changes to our DNA. Third 30 minutes Discusses Codex Alimentarius and how it is the strategic plan of the Illumi= nati to dessimate the population from 6 billion to 500 million through bovi= ne growth hormanes, fluoridation, and anti-biotics. Also discusses Agenda 21 Protocol I would be interested in getting some feedback if anyone is interested in d= oing so. Also I am not convinced about alien co-operation with earthlings h= ere, but the rest of what David Willcox said has much food for thought in i= t. Cass http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=3D3267 --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster To= tal Access, No Cost. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] = =20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster To= tal Access, No Cost. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Fri Apr 04 08:21:15 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 38162 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2008 15:18:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Apr 2008 15:18:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m27.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.8) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Apr 2008 15:18:45 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d34.22ae9ceb (34895) for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2008 11:18:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from MBLK-M14 (mblk-m14.mblk.aol.com [64.12.136.47]) by cia-da01.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA014-884f47f646cb1a7; Fri, 04 Apr 2008 11:18:36 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2008 11:18:35 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 69.217.171.151 In-Reply-To: <739561.72373.qm@web52107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 35790-STANDARD X-Received: from 69.217.171.151 by MBLK-M14.sysops.aol.com (64.12.136.47) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 04 Apr 2008 11:18:35 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA647E493692EE-12F4-464@MBLK-M14.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.8 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World 2012 Enigma X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=1IXUpemEtPpcKq4sXUk_dchfNfli79TdxXIVRGgUfhQPkFtlaQ X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43458 It was implied at the beginning of the movie.=C2=A0 Then he changed his int= erpretation. http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano=20 -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 10:29 pm Subject: Re: Theos-World 2012 Enigma He doesn't mention the world ending, so not sure where you are coming from? Cass Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: Well, I matched my equipment against the Montauk Device in 1992 and beat it= so... The other thing to remember is that we have records that go back beyond 4,0= 00 BC, and no sign the world ended then either.=C3=82 Of course maybe somet= hing terrible might happen to Gautemala in 2012, but I fear the worst we wi= ll have to deal with is another US Presidential campaign that year, which m= ay make us all wish the world would come to an end! Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano=20 -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: Theosophy Sent: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 7:33 pm Subject: Theos-World 2012 Enigma Call me na=C3=83=C2=AFve, but I think there is something in what this perso= n has to say. The video is long, 2 hours, and may bleed a little at the end= , but basically it covers. The first 30 minutes:- Our chakras as a means to raising consciousness without meditation. Process= involves collapsing the chakras into nested spheres, to what they call Zer= o Point, the centre being the wormgate to other dimensions. The physical component we use is the pineal gland. Connections between the Vatican =C3=A2=E2=82=AC=E2=80=9C Egypt =C3=A2=E2=82= =AC=E2=80=9C multiduous symbols of Pine Cones (which represent the pineal g= land =C3=A2=E2=82=AC=E2=80=9C as this is what the pineal gland looks like. = Also Dionysus, Buddha, Shiva are all depicted with pine cone. The staff of = the Pope has a pine cone. King Tut shown with a pine cone suggesting that k= nowledge of the pineal (symbolically represented as a pinecone) is the know= ledge of higher forces. Very interesting segment on the real history of the USA and how it is contr= olled by the British through the Illuminati. Second 30 minutes (for memory) Sci Fi fans will love this =C3=A2=E2=82=AC=E2=80=9C Montauk chair and how t= he Fibonnaci sequence of 13 comes into effect 21/12/2012 =C3=A2=E2=82=AC=E2= =80=9C to do with the pulse of the earth (and subsequently ours) vibrating = from 7.5 in 1986 to the predicted 13 in 2012, which can cause changes to ou= r DNA. Third 30 minutes Discusses Codex Alimentarius and how it is the strategic plan of the Illumi= nati to dessimate the population from 6 billion to 500 million through bovi= ne growth hormanes, fluoridation, and anti-biotics. Also discusses Agenda 21 Protocol I would be interested in getting some feedback if anyone is interested in d= oing so. Also I am not convinced about alien co-operation with earthlings h= ere, but the rest of what David Willcox said has much food for thought in i= t. Cass http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=3D3267 --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster To= tal Access, No Cost. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster To= tal Access, No Cost. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From byondthis@yahoo.com Fri Apr 04 14:03:51 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: byondthis@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 78808 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2008 21:03:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Apr 2008 21:03:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52908.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.18) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Apr 2008 21:03:47 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 96914 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Apr 2008 21:03:47 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: dUqCEaUVM1mel32OHRRFOjo866ID2RUXWU9w931rTKlmALsn6YHQIPFR9.y.O_q3MrdG_vstiCp0t46RgrE1kTCKW101TV4Hiwmv4k7ANPm3cPuTZrB_LdrD90EKQ3Ekmri1MKw- X-Received: from [69.47.128.166] by web52908.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 04 Apr 2008 14:03:46 PDT Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 14:03:46 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <107514.95756.qm@web52908.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.49.18 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: brian scanlon Subject: Re:2012 Enigma X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=112704907; y=neQXu0pC1AiSAKh1ivxCWhbhzKz8nes2IA9o7Qjurw-iU2iN X-Yahoo-Profile: byondthis X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43459 Hi Cass, It sounds like an interesting show. I will have to check it out. Some points you mentioned are collaborated or explained, in various national/ontological versions of the secret doctrine including: The Turanian Ancestral Taoist system -(a version of the pre-Aryan/Atlantian system (Which the Aryan system is the "Pre-Vedic system")developed and evolved by the Turanians, teachs that the "Chakras" are actualy united into one large Chakra, when one opens the "Microcosmic orbit" (which is connecting the two most important of the "8 Mysterious Vessels/Channels" and increasing the flow of "Chi' within it) - The Microcosmic orbit is a core component of Turanian Alchemy, and a very very important aspect of the Esoteric System, which is missing from many of the surviving national branchs, and/or it was re-imported into modern systems, during the 1600-1800's. It is essentialy a path bisecting the body in half, along the center line of the body.It starts on the front of the body within the tongue, than travels down the chest to the groin, back to the tail bone, up the spine, to the top of the head, ending in the roof of the mouth, which when the tongue is placed there, completes the "Circuit" for the Etheric/Pranic energy to flow freely. It is Ovoid Shape, and is a microcosmic version of the Macroscosmic "Cosmic Egg". The most interesting point, is that when the Microcosmic path is opened fully, the chakras unite into one strong Chakra field. At this time true spiritual resurection can be practised and the Male and Female energies of the Body can be united. At this point, the body becomes a Neutral pole, or a Laya Center as we say in Theosophy, or Zero point. Connections between far ranging cultures, is something HPB proved back in the 1800's and explains in detail, where all cultures came from and why/how they are connected, as well as why we have so few records left. Like usual she was called a quack by the "Greatest" thinkers of her day, yet, most of the ideas from the "Greatest" thinkers are now proved false and have been thrown out in the trash, while HPBs/Mahatmas Ideas are continualy validated. There are many Symbols found, in as extreme far range of cultures as you can get, proving that in fact there was a time of BEFORE the period of "One Lip", where everyone, was of "One Symbol" (time of the 3rd Root Race) and that Land masses were differant, and have changed multiple times. My perception of the US is that, it is the "house of christianity", not the house of Illuminati, who were simply a group preserving the Esoteric Doctrine in Older times. While I dont believe in the Illuminati, in terms of modern use and with the fabulous modern stories, I do percieve that "nothing is what it seems" in the tricky world of Maya, and I Dont believe anything the media paints as truth. I do believe that wars are purposfuly man made and there are "people behind the scenes", but many take this kind of idea way way to far. 2012 - Im interested and entertained by all the odd ball ideas people come up with on what is going to happen 2012. People dont learn from their mistakes. Have we forgoten Y2K all ready? Like usual Theosophy has the explanation, IF we have the "ears to hear". First we know that the Kali Yuga, DOESNT end in 2012, SO, no rest for the wicked. Second, we know in 1875 a new Cycle in the Preccesional cycle began. We are now celestialy positioned to become influenced by the Aquarius Star cluster. This means a complete change in social and spiritual outlook, and in fact, along with the Kali Yuga, changes the kind of "Spiritual Technology" will be best, for Chelas and Adepts to fruther along the path. And whats so very unique about this Precessional cycle is that the position of our equitorial plane, is aligned with that of the ecliptic plane and the galactic plane forms a "Celestial Cross Pattern,which only occures ruffly every 12,000 Years. This is of utmost importance for one reason. A change will occur in the 5th Sub Group of the 5th Root Race, which will take us out of the point of "The most material", and we will officialy begin the ascending arc, preparing for the 6th Sub Race. THis means, we will become more spiritualy inclined, while those unwilling to change, will be simply thrown to the wayside, as evolutionary dead ends. Those that evolve will be the stock base for the 6th sub racers. We know this is an aspect of study in Esoteric Astrology/Astronomy. As we know the astrological Symbol for the Earth, is a mulitiple layered symbol, which among many other meanings, represents certain astrological Alighments. And represents this Cosmic alighment we are approaching. Additionaly our Solar System, is the closest, it has been to the galatic center, in an extremly long period of time. SO, we are getting bathed in many differant forms, of evolutionary force, that will be the catalyst for change in the Aryan root race NOT destruction or Armagedon. As to aliens, I dont believe in SciFi stuff, though believe that many UFOs are simply top secret US vehicles (I say this based on real time experiance with one, extremly close to me, and it didnt look like it was from outer space!) and that many "sightings" are actualy experiances with "Beings" and Forces, from other planes. BUT I do believe in the fact that since 1875, when the new Aquarian precessional cycle began, Coincidentaly?!?!?! when HPB founded the TS, a very unique thing started to occur, which has never before happened. The Physical plane and the Astral plane, have become the "Closest" that they have ever been. As in the Barrier has begun to break down. Originaly this was the part of the divine plane, in having these 2 lower planes/bodies/aspects combine. But since the Atlantians corrupted and "soiled" the Astral plane, which weve kept the ball rolling on, this posses new dangers. A physical manefestation of this, can be seen in 2 things. First the increase of Paranormal activity/channeling/mediums, ect. None of which have ever channeled anything other than a lower astral being or elemental. All phenomena is either a result of astral forces, or caused by individuals who are developed in their Psychic/astral gifts. And two, visitation by differant forces/beings/life forms,Visibly, instead of simply Phenomena that many call "UFOS", and mistake for something from Outer space, increased after 1875, to the largest most wide spread numbers ever. And finaly, Population control. While I dont believe in the Modern Illuminati, I fully percieve that we are purposfully given chemicals that will give us things like cancer and shorten our lives. "Side effects' are pursposfully built into synthetic pharmaceuticals. They purposfully hold back Cures, to keep stringing people along. They do create sickness. They do "Fleace" us of everything they possibly can. They pump us with images to create fear, so we will become better consumers seaking "Comfort". And dont even get me started on Oil and the War!! I will see if I can track this vid down and watch it tonight. B 2012 Enigma Posted by: "Cass Silva" silva_cass@yahoo.com silva_cass Thu Apr 3, 2008 5:33 pm (PDT) Call me naïve, but I think there is something in what this person has to say. The video is long, 2 hours, and may bleed a little at the end, but basically it covers. The first 30 minutes:- Our chakras as a means to raising consciousness without meditation. Process involves collapsing the chakras into nested spheres, to what they call Zero Point, the centre being the wormgate to other dimensions. The physical component we use is the pineal gland. Connections between the Vatican – Egypt – multiduous symbols of Pine Cones (which represent the pineal gland – as this is what the pineal gland looks like. Also Dionysus, Buddha, Shiva are all depicted with pine cone. The staff of the Pope has a pine cone. King Tut shown with a pine cone suggesting that knowledge of the pineal (symbolically represented as a pinecone) is the knowledge of higher forces. Very interesting segment on the real history of the USA and how it is controlled by the British through the Illuminati. Second 30 minutes (for memory) Sci Fi fans will love this – Montauk chair and how the Fibonnaci sequence of 13 comes into effect 21/12/2012 – to do with the pulse of the earth (and subsequently ours) vibrating from 7.5 in 1986 to the predicted 13 in 2012, which can cause changes to our DNA. Third 30 minutes Discusses Codex Alimentarius and how it is the strategic plan of the Illuminati to dessimate the population from 6 billion to 500 million through bovine growth hormanes, fluoridation, and anti-biotics. Also discusses Agenda 21 Protocol I would be interested in getting some feedback if anyone is interested in doing so. Also I am not convinced about alien co-operation with earthlings here, but the rest of what David Willcox said has much food for thought in it. Cass ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com From pecorellageraldine@yahoo.com Fri Apr 04 19:08:48 2008 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 96064 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2008 02:08:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Apr 2008 02:08:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.249) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Apr 2008 02:08:46 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n29.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Apr 2008 02:08:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Apr 2008 02:08:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Apr 2008 02:08:46 -0000 X-Sender: pecorellageraldine@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 31046 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2008 01:45:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Apr 2008 01:45:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n36d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.190) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Apr 2008 01:45:51 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n36.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Apr 2008 01:45:51 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Apr 2008 01:45:51 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.48] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Apr 2008 01:45:51 -0000 Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2008 01:45:50 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-Originating-IP: 66.163.168.190 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 74.78.49.198 From: "geraldine pecorella" Subject: Mahabharata on-line resource X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=307234721; y=nJiz_zZgaPlnVnl6Uo27KaEvKooX5H5vfmGQKVTz-7L3ndI_Tb29rJkYVlWV X-Yahoo-Profile: pecorellageraldine X-eGroups-Approved-By: eldon_tucker via web; 05 Apr 2008 02:08:44 -0000 X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43460 Dear Brothers& Sisters,Where is the best place to download stories of=20 the Mahabharata? Thanks Geraldine From silva_cass@yahoo.com Fri Apr 04 21:17:52 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 12358 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2008 04:17:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Apr 2008 04:17:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52112.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.115) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Apr 2008 04:17:49 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 25448 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Apr 2008 04:17:49 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Ado.wtsVM1kvicpst8KQJSV1DaynUfasQEaPYsSZeCU6b3yKykc8AAItq_jWktlmF8WprGWsgIqg63tbS_6M0dOZ24aeRbgYl.jNc8s9NBUqkqxkp8ZCbMC5IcDofq2sCXibPG_wkFQpPEhihAF_MW8L3kp0prMBUkfJLNLW2Up0FrpnT5799F8uw.8- X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52112.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 04 Apr 2008 21:17:48 PDT Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 21:17:48 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8CA647E493692EE-12F4-464@MBLK-M14.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <174872.25409.qm@web52112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.115 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World 2012 Enigma X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=0FAgKlI5x4Ty2h00tDO9D16Eq1-GEIr6JBfQI-7GJ6bbut1TBg X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43461 He spoke about making a movie at the same time as his talk, but I didn't co= nnect the two. I guess you have seen the movie. =20=20=20 Cass Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: It was implied at the beginning of the movie.=C2 Then he changed= his interpretation. http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano=20 -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 10:29 pm Subject: Re: Theos-World 2012 Enigma He doesn't mention the world ending, so not sure where you are coming from? Cass Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: Well, I matched my equipment against the Montauk Device in 1992 and beat it= so... The other thing to remember is that we have records that go back beyond 4,0= 00 BC, and no sign the world ended then either.=C3=82 Of course maybe somet= hing terrible might happen to Gautemala in 2012, but I fear the worst we wi= ll have to deal with is another US Presidential campaign that year, which m= ay make us all wish the world would come to an end! Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano=20 -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: Theosophy Sent: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 7:33 pm Subject: Theos-World 2012 Enigma Call me na=C3=83=C2=AFve, but I think there is something in what this perso= n has to say. The video is long, 2 hours, and may bleed a little at the end= , but basically it covers. The first 30 minutes:- Our chakras as a means to raising consciousness without meditation. Process= involves collapsing the chakras into nested spheres, to what they call Zer= o Point, the centre being the wormgate to other dimensions. The physical component we use is the pineal gland. Connections between the Vatican =C3=A2=E2=82=AC=E2=80=9C Egypt =C3=A2=E2=82= =AC=E2=80=9C multiduous symbols of Pine Cones (which represent the pineal g= land =C3=A2=E2=82=AC=E2=80=9C as this is what the pineal gland looks like. = Also Dionysus, Buddha, Shiva are all depicted with pine cone. The staff of = the Pope has a pine cone. King Tut shown with a pine cone suggesting that k= nowledge of the pineal (symbolically represented as a pinecone) is the know= ledge of higher forces. Very interesting segment on the real history of the USA and how it is contr= olled by the British through the Illuminati. Second 30 minutes (for memory) Sci Fi fans will love this =C3=A2=E2=82=AC=E2=80=9C Montauk chair and how t= he Fibonnaci sequence of 13 comes into effect 21/12/2012 =C3=A2=E2=82=AC=E2= =80=9C to do with the pulse of the earth (and subsequently ours) vibrating = from 7.5 in 1986 to the predicted 13 in 2012, which can cause changes to ou= r DNA. Third 30 minutes Discusses Codex Alimentarius and how it is the strategic plan of the Illumi= nati to dessimate the population from 6 billion to 500 million through bovi= ne growth hormanes, fluoridation, and anti-biotics. Also discusses Agenda 21 Protocol I would be interested in getting some feedback if anyone is interested in d= oing so. Also I am not convinced about alien co-operation with earthlings h= ere, but the rest of what David Willcox said has much food for thought in i= t. Cass http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=3D3267 --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster To= tal Access, No Cost. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster To= tal Access, No Cost. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] = =20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster To= tal Access, No Cost. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From leonmaurer@aol.com Sat Apr 05 00:04:37 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 98598 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2008 07:04:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Apr 2008 07:04:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Apr 2008 07:04:34 -0000 X-Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d28.22fa81a2 (34958) for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2008 03:04:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from [66.229.64.15] (c-66-229-64-15.hsd1.fl.comcast.net [66.229.64.15]) by cia-da06.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA067-888e47f7247a1a8; Sat, 05 Apr 2008 03:04:26 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753) In-Reply-To: <868513.51546.qm@web52105.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <868513.51546.qm@web52105.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-Id: <1BE1D2B6-50EB-45F8-9CEA-4A04FFB98685@aol.com> Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 03:04:30 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753) X-AOL-IP: 66.229.64.15 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.144.208 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: Leon Maurer Subject: Re: Theos-World A must watch X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972; y=U-y8q6oZlVC7KbnZGl1GSHRvxIpSDiuP00FAcm6BBUtQ6dqRGzk X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43462 YouTube said "the URL contained a malformed video ID" but when I closed the spaces it worked okay. So here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyyjU8fzEYU Very interesing and moving. On Apr 3, 2008, at 4/3/089:38 PM, Cass Silva wrote: > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=UyyjU8fzEYU [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Mvandertak@yahoo.com Sat Apr 05 00:32:40 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mvandertak@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 87243 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2008 07:32:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Apr 2008 07:32:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52607.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.210) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Apr 2008 07:32:36 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 18538 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Apr 2008 07:32:36 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 5L6AGVIVM1n8xRyoyFA3OkDIyK01dEuU4Af8jSQQUQ2WFi_U_Ce41Y2vBMh0dBKnl4ziUy2mpP1JUzkXVxY5puvo5vaXY_POx_2dJaMJwNDoSDgzPBkLooV_92TiSlNhYXaj2EtDVxtjP81cblket6uaLLMszHbTsv0- X-Received: from [212.127.190.196] by web52607.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 05 Apr 2008 00:32:35 PDT Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 00:32:35 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <107514.95756.qm@web52908.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <183623.18206.qm@web52607.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.210 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Martin Subject: Re: Theos-World Re:2012 Enigma X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=38276385; y=68orO7jUlazM0PRwL893wm_UwacTGDf_sqsRNabBEqism4W8Gw X-Yahoo-Profile: mvandertak X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43463 Dear Brian: That was a good informative read :-) Have a look here about the Germ,an developements in the WW2: http://www.vho.org/D/Geheim1/29g.htm Here you can read about people who channeled Pleiadan technology back in the 30s of the 20th century and based on that they developed flying saucers. There's indeed a lot top secret (occult) going on in Maya. On purpose keeping people from the Truth is to me the worst karmic act, I speak from my own experience and I am still trying to get myself out of the mental shit(read condition)I was plunged into by society when born. Though I know in the end all is temporary and despite what we do to eachother, in the end we understand it was for our own growth. --- brian scanlon wrote: > > Hi Cass, > > It sounds like an interesting show. I will have to > check it out. > > Some points you mentioned are collaborated or > explained, in various national/ontological versions > of > the secret doctrine including: > > The Turanian Ancestral Taoist system -(a version of > the pre-Aryan/Atlantian system (Which the Aryan > system > is the "Pre-Vedic system")developed and evolved by > the > Turanians, teachs that the "Chakras" are actualy > united into one large Chakra, when one opens the > "Microcosmic orbit" (which is connecting the two > most > important of the "8 Mysterious Vessels/Channels" and > increasing the flow of "Chi' within it) - > > The Microcosmic orbit is a core component of > Turanian > Alchemy, and a very very important aspect of the > Esoteric System, which is missing from many of the > surviving national branchs, and/or it was > re-imported > into modern systems, during the 1600-1800's. It is > essentialy a path bisecting the body in half, along > the center line of the body.It starts on the front > of > the body within the tongue, than travels down the > chest to the groin, back to the tail bone, up the > spine, to the top of the head, ending in the roof of > the mouth, which when the tongue is placed there, > completes the "Circuit" for the Etheric/Pranic > energy > to flow freely. It is Ovoid Shape, and is a > microcosmic version of the Macroscosmic "Cosmic > Egg". > > The most interesting point, is that when the > Microcosmic path is opened fully, the chakras unite > into one strong Chakra field. At this time true > spiritual resurection can be practised and the Male > and Female energies of the Body can be united. At > this > point, the body becomes a Neutral pole, or a Laya > Center as we say in Theosophy, or Zero point. > > > Connections between far ranging cultures, is > something > HPB proved back in the 1800's and explains in > detail, > where all cultures came from and why/how they are > connected, as well as why we have so few records > left. > Like usual she was called a quack by the "Greatest" > thinkers of her day, yet, most of the ideas from the > "Greatest" thinkers are now proved false and have > been > thrown out in the trash, while HPBs/Mahatmas Ideas > are > continualy validated. There are many Symbols found, > in > as extreme far range of cultures as you can get, > proving that in fact there was a time of BEFORE the > period of "One Lip", where everyone, was of "One > Symbol" (time of the 3rd Root Race) and that Land > masses were differant, and have changed multiple > times. > > My perception of the US is that, it is the "house of > christianity", not the house of Illuminati, who were > simply a group preserving the Esoteric Doctrine in > Older times. While I dont believe in the > Illuminati, > in terms of modern use and with the fabulous modern > stories, I do percieve that "nothing is what it > seems" > in the tricky world of Maya, and I Dont believe > anything the media paints as truth. I do believe > that > wars are purposfuly man made and there are "people > behind the scenes", but many take this kind of idea > way way to far. > > 2012 - Im interested and entertained by all the odd > ball ideas people come up with on what is going to > happen 2012. People dont learn from their mistakes. > Have we forgoten Y2K all ready? Like usual Theosophy > has the explanation, IF we have the "ears to hear". > > First we know that the Kali Yuga, DOESNT end in > 2012, > SO, no rest for the wicked. Second, we know in 1875 > a > new Cycle in the Preccesional cycle began. We are > now > celestialy positioned to become influenced by the > Aquarius Star cluster. This means a complete change > in > social and spiritual outlook, and in fact, along > with > the Kali Yuga, changes the kind of "Spiritual > Technology" will be best, for Chelas and Adepts to > fruther along the path. And whats so very unique > about > this Precessional cycle is that the position of our > equitorial plane, is aligned with that of the > ecliptic > plane and the galactic plane forms a "Celestial > Cross > Pattern,which only occures ruffly every 12,000 > Years. > This is of utmost importance for one reason. A > change > will occur in the 5th Sub Group of the 5th Root > Race, > which will take us out of the point of "The most > material", and we will officialy begin the ascending > arc, preparing for the 6th Sub Race. THis means, we > will become more spiritualy inclined, while those > unwilling to change, will be simply thrown to the > wayside, as evolutionary dead ends. Those that > evolve > will be the stock base for the 6th sub racers. > > We know this is an aspect of study in Esoteric > Astrology/Astronomy. As we know the astrological > Symbol for the Earth, is a mulitiple layered symbol, > which among many other meanings, represents certain > astrological Alighments. And represents this Cosmic > alighment we are approaching. > > Additionaly our Solar System, is the closest, it > has > been to the galatic center, in an extremly long > period > of time. SO, we are getting bathed in many differant > forms, of evolutionary force, that will be the > catalyst for change in the Aryan root race NOT > destruction or Armagedon. > > > As to aliens, I dont believe in SciFi stuff, though > believe that many UFOs are simply top secret US > vehicles (I say this based on real time experiance > with one, extremly close to me, and it didnt look > like > it was from outer space!) and that many "sightings" > are actualy experiances with "Beings" and Forces, > from > other planes. > > BUT I do believe in the fact that since 1875, when > the > new Aquarian precessional cycle began, > Coincidentaly?!?!?! when HPB founded the TS, a very > unique thing started to occur, which has never > before > happened. The Physical plane and the Astral plane, > have become the "Closest" that they have ever been. > As > in the Barrier has begun to break down. Originaly > this > was the part of the divine plane, in having these 2 > lower planes/bodies/aspects combine. But since the > Atlantians corrupted and "soiled" the Astral plane, > which weve kept the ball rolling on, this posses new > dangers. A physical manefestation of this, can be > seen > in 2 things. > > First the increase of Paranormal > activity/channeling/mediums, ect. None of which have > ever channeled anything other than a lower astral > being or elemental. All phenomena is either a result > of astral forces, or caused by individuals who are > developed in their Psychic/astral gifts. > > And two, visitation by differant forces/beings/life > forms,Visibly, instead of simply Phenomena that many > call "UFOS", and mistake for something from Outer > space, increased after 1875, to the largest most > wide > spread numbers ever. > > And finaly, Population control. While I dont believe > in the Modern Illuminati, I fully percieve that we > are > purposfully given chemicals that will give us things > like cancer and shorten our lives. "Side effects' > are > pursposfully built into synthetic pharmaceuticals. > They purposfully hold back Cures, to keep stringing > people along. They do create sickness. They do > "Fleace" us of everything they possibly can. They > pump > === message truncated === ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com From dirk.laureyssens@gmail.com Sat Apr 05 04:45:32 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: dirk.laureyssens@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77648 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2008 11:45:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Apr 2008 11:45:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n35d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.189) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Apr 2008 11:45:29 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n35.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Apr 2008 11:45:29 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Apr 2008 11:45:29 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Apr 2008 11:45:29 -0000 Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 11:45:28 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.168.189 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 80.201.97.72 From: "pelastration" Subject: Geometry, Topological holons and Kabbalah X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=242761364; y=3x40CwXrTXjpj7uo9RDCZfVLoyYY2EUYsWvjpB2DHlTkkbUqbRK5 X-Yahoo-Profile: pelastration X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43464 For your consideration. ;-) Riemann and Clifford looked how bending geometry could explain the dynamics= of the=20 cosmic system. To them matter and energy are simply different types of cur= vature of=20 space.=20 Influenced by the non-Euclidean geometries of Bernhard Riemann and Nikolay= =20 Lobachevsky, William Kingdon Clifford presented in 1876 such idea, thus for= eshadowing=20 Albert Einstein's GR, who called this "deformations" of spacetime or topolo= gical defects.=20 Riemann Riemann showed in 1854 - based on a crumpled paper ball - that as t= here are=20 different kinds of lines and surfaces, so there are different kinds of spac= e of three=20 dimensions, including hidden dimensions. =20 IMO the basic background (substance) is a dynamic membrane that is the sing= ularity (that=20 cannot destroy or intersect itself).=20 This starting hypothesis gives the possibility to show in an engineering de= sign the=20 mechanism of macro and micro entanglements. Check in this yuotube movie:=20 The hard problem. Based on the same first principle of topological entangle= ment it's easy=20 to understand how spirit and body are coupled. Mind is then the interface b= etween spirit=20 and body. See Youtube movie And based on the same first principle of topological entanglement it's easy= to understand=20 the basic concepts behind Kabbalah. See Video-Google:=20 . Soon I will publish a new video about the Tree of life using this principle= of entanglement,=20 showing the sefirot and the 22 paths in one design.=20 This approach is 100% mathematical correct. Every-thing we observe is part = (a subset) of=20 the larger background (One). The complexity of our dynamic reality is due t= o the=20 progressive multi-layering in more complex holons, where the most dense hol= ons finally=20 will be called "matter".=20=20=20 Best regards. =20=20 Dirk http://www.mu6.com/holon_creation.html http://holons.blogspot.com http://holonism.blogspot.com From silva_cass@yahoo.com Sat Apr 05 06:31:33 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 93687 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2008 13:31:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Apr 2008 13:31:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52106.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.109) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Apr 2008 13:31:29 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 45376 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Apr 2008 13:31:28 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 0exdQYkVM1kERmxI6np3DuWvaqMFIoaWR.Xq97qL8TvhKF5RSjR5.Urx.SJwbUZhJMPLSmIUcKXwhVDh1PCZcCVFnL8tvuy9fpGy9SMM9Mk2WrUYuBsOaIbEzXcMDDuhd_UFQHxKl9znTKO_VLgtzihEaQ-- X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52106.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 05 Apr 2008 06:31:28 PDT Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 06:31:28 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1BE1D2B6-50EB-45F8-9CEA-4A04FFB98685@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <836619.43275.qm@web52106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.109 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World A must watch X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=RKmdN-SVE7CTiPwDrwRl4l3YO6F5RAlUgsX9TUylaS-tmh5oPQ X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43465 Yes, it made the idea of having a stroke or dying as having not to fear it. Harder for those who are left to care or grieve. Cass Leon Maurer wrote: YouTube said "the URL contained a malformed video ID" but when I closed the spaces it worked okay. So here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyyjU8fzEYU Very interesing and moving. On Apr 3, 2008, at 4/3/089:38 PM, Cass Silva wrote: > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=UyyjU8fzEYU [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Sat Apr 05 10:02:40 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 38207 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2008 17:02:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Apr 2008 17:02:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d23.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.137) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Apr 2008 17:02:37 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.ccc.2e304ab6 (37145) for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2008 13:02:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from FWM-D05 (fwm-d05.webmail.aol.com [205.188.160.197]) by cia-ma03.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMA037-911947f7b0a346; Sat, 05 Apr 2008 13:02:27 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 13:02:27 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 69.217.171.151 In-Reply-To: <174872.25409.qm@web52112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 35790-STANDARD X-Received: from 69.217.171.151 by FWM-D05.sysops.aol.com (205.188.160.197) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sat, 05 Apr 2008 13:02:27 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA6555F60C5A98-BE4-2D25@FWM-D05.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.139.137 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World 2012 Enigma X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=ojyLqwzjldz3fNLPIHGWwsmyJfCXM2lEFxZgThodl-8Bdad78g X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43466 I downloaded it. http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano=20 -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 11:17 pm Subject: Re: Theos-World 2012 Enigma He spoke about making a movie at the same time as his talk, but I didn't co= nnect the two. I guess you have seen the movie. Cass Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: It was implied at the beginning of the movie.=C3=82 Then he changed his int= erpretation. http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano=20 -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 10:29 pm Subject: Re: Theos-World 2012 Enigma He doesn't mention the world ending, so not sure where you are coming from? Cass Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: Well, I matched my equipment against the Montauk Device in 1992 and beat it= so... The other thing to remember is that we have records that go back beyond 4,0= 00 BC, and no sign the world ended then either.=C3=83=E2=80=9A Of course ma= ybe something terrible might happen to Gautemala in 2012, but I fear the wo= rst we will have to deal with is another US Presidential campaign that year= , which may make us all wish the world would come to an end! Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano=20 -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: Theosophy Sent: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 7:33 pm Subject: Theos-World 2012 Enigma Call me na=C3=83=C6=92=C3=82=C2=AFve, but I think there is something in wha= t this person has to say. The video is long, 2 hours, and may bleed a littl= e at the end, but basically it covers. The first 30 minutes:- Our chakras as a means to raising consciousness without meditation. Process= involves collapsing the chakras into nested spheres, to what they call Zer= o Point, the centre being the wormgate to other dimensions. The physical component we use is the pineal gland. Connections between the Vatican =C3=83=C2=A2=C3=A2=E2=80=9A=C2=AC=C3=A2=E2= =82=AC=C5=93 Egypt =C3=83=C2=A2=C3=A2=E2=80=9A=C2=AC=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=C5=93 m= ultiduous symbols of Pine Cones (which represent the pineal gland =C3=83=C2= =A2=C3=A2=E2=80=9A=C2=AC=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=C5=93 as this is what the pineal gl= and looks like. Also Dionysus, Buddha, Shiva are all depicted with pine con= e. The staff of the Pope has a pine cone. King Tut shown with a pine cone s= uggesting that knowledge of the pineal (symbolically represented as a pinec= one) is the knowledge of higher forces. Very interesting segment on the real history of the USA and how it is contr= olled by the British through the Illuminati. Second 30 minutes (for memory) Sci Fi fans will love this =C3=83=C2=A2=C3=A2=E2=80=9A=C2=AC=C3=A2=E2=82=AC= =C5=93 Montauk chair and how the Fibonnaci sequence of 13 comes into effect= 21/12/2012 =C3=83=C2=A2=C3=A2=E2=80=9A=C2=AC=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=C5=93 to do wi= th the pulse of the earth (and subsequently ours) vibrating from 7.5 in 198= 6 to the predicted 13 in 2012, which can cause changes to our DNA. Third 30 minutes Discusses Codex Alimentarius and how it is the strategic plan of the Illumi= nati to dessimate the population from 6 billion to 500 million through bovi= ne growth hormanes, fluoridation, and anti-biotics. Also discusses Agenda 21 Protocol I would be interested in getting some feedback if anyone is interested in d= oing so. Also I am not convinced about alien co-operation with earthlings h= ere, but the rest of what David Willcox said has much food for thought in i= t. Cass http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=3D3267 --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster To= tal Access, No Cost. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster To= tal Access, No Cost. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster To= tal Access, No Cost. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Sat Apr 05 17:26:28 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 25787 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2008 00:26:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2008 00:26:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO hs-out-0708.google.com) (64.233.178.247) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Apr 2008 00:26:25 -0000 X-Received: by hs-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id k27so554464hsc.2 for ; Sat, 05 Apr 2008 17:26:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.232.13 with SMTP id e13mr6746821anh.89.1207441585075; Sat, 05 Apr 2008 17:26:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Sat, 5 Apr 2008 17:26:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 18:26:25 -0600 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: X-Originating-IP: 64.233.178.247 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Mahabharata on-line resource X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=xATIQ7Vh7lFGMI44e9rgbqXIWqqPnUeNTtXM3hRTnJWpl7vqLyM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43467 This is the first time I see a request. Have you tried to google? You may find some sources. mkr On 4/3/08, geraldine pecorella wrote: > > Dear Brothers& Sisters,Where is the best place to download stories of > the Mahabharata? > Thanks Geraldine > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From nhcareyta@yahoo.com.au Sat Apr 05 20:09:33 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: nhcareyta@yahoo.com.au X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 48971 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2008 03:09:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2008 03:09:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n36d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.190) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Apr 2008 03:09:30 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n36.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Apr 2008 03:09:30 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Apr 2008 03:09:30 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Apr 2008 03:09:30 -0000 Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2008 03:09:29 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.168.190 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 124.169.148.56 From: "nhcareyta" Subject: Re: Mahabharata on-line resource X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193856796; y=nJrOMaR2Q36kyoAWD1qnpNiOQvpBttKTbHQ-TnygMRSbgTp9 X-Yahoo-Profile: nhcareyta X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43468 Dear Geraldine Here is a link which might be of help: http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/maha/index.htm Regards Nigel --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "geraldine pecorella"=20 wrote: > > Dear Brothers& Sisters,Where is the best place to download stories of=20 > the Mahabharata? > Thanks Geraldine > From leonmaurer@aol.com Sat Apr 05 20:31:49 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 16316 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2008 03:31:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Apr 2008 03:31:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d23.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.137) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Apr 2008 03:31:46 -0000 X-Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.cb6.28813aed (37588) for ; Sat, 5 Apr 2008 23:31:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from [66.229.64.15] (c-66-229-64-15.hsd1.fl.comcast.net [66.229.64.15]) by cia-mb06.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMB061-92d447f8441e1ff; Sat, 05 Apr 2008 23:31:43 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753) In-Reply-To: <107514.95756.qm@web52908.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <107514.95756.qm@web52908.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-Id: <2DE4324E-FA69-4ED0-A454-5A3964055EE1@aol.com> Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 23:31:40 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753) X-AOL-IP: 66.229.64.15 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.139.137 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: Leon Maurer Subject: Re: Theos-World Re:2012 Enigma X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972; y=cyMhlgkDKgZ70E_1OMZolEXTk0dEiXr-BGzQQABeQwDr8v0d8UQ X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43469 Hi all, Check out the diagram of the chakra fields as described in the ABC model of cosmogenesis**, that conforms perfectly with the cosmology of the Book of Dzyan, and is useful as a visualization when practicing the meditative system outlined in Patanjali's (Rajah) Yoga Aphorisms coupled with the Voice of the Silence -- which, taken together, are almost identical to the Esoteric meditative system described by Brian -- (which is more like a tantric version of kundalini yoga). **See, ABC theory of cosmogenesis and illustrations at: http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/23/13 and http://users.aol.com/leonmaurer/THOTH_IN_DIAMOND_SAMADHI.jpg http://users.aol.com/leonmaurer/Chakrafielddiag-fig.col.jpg http://users.aol.com/uniwldarts/uniworld.artisans.guild/chakrafield.gif Note the analogous relationship between the 8 inner chakra field complex (and it's two higher fields of Atma-Buddhi centered in the eye chakra) related to the physical body's overall spiritual field (centered in the heart chakra) -- and the 8 fields (and its two higher fields of atma-buddhi centered above the brahma chakra) related to the astral body's spiritual field (centered in the naval chakra) and linked, analogously, to the physical body's heart chakra. (Essentially, all zero-point centers of consciousness throughout the body (cellular, etc,) are entangled with the center of global self consciousness located in the naval chakra point.) This analogous and corresponding relationship is the basis of "As above, so below" -- which holographically extends and applies up to and through the entire cosmos and every sentient being in it. Thus at the primal beginning, the sleeping (pralaya) cosmos had its circumference everywhere (spinergy) and its center (consciousness) nowhere. And, after manifestation (manvantara) it is just the reverse. It follows, as the Buddha said, that both consciousness and matter are "dependently arising" out of "sunyata" or emptiness (of form or being). Therefore "sunyata" is just as real as everything that stems from it Since visualization is centered in the pineal or eye chakra, meditating on and understanding these relationships will aid in visualizing the ultimate merger of all the higher monadic (atma- buddhi-manas) zero-point chakra centers of the physical, astral, mental, spiritual bodies, and the corresponding solar bodies, galactic bodies, etc. When all these higher chakra field's zero point centers are correlated (merged) between the three human bodies, along with the corresponding solar and cosmic (monad chakra field) bodies and the total unity of the self with all selves is realized -- samadhi (enlightenment) is experienced, and at-one-ment of the body, mind and soul with the conscious Laya point source of all, is achieved. Remember that the holographic *information* for the structure of all these bodies, is stored everywhere in every zero-point "spinergy" center of every chakra field. This state corresponds with the "union" of the body's male and female energies... But such a rajah yoga meditative method can -- by visualization alone solely through the higher mind -- directly lift our consciousness from the physical plane to the spiritual plane, along with the automatic control of the breath, and the flow of chi energy through the "Nadi" channels.. Although there's nothing wrong with assisting this flow by placing the tongue against the roof of the mouth... Although no physical or tantric "positions" or special "breathing" are necessary for the dedicated rajah yoga meditator. ;-) BTW, such a "meditation with a seed," as taught by Patanjali, can be carried out anywhere, at any time, so long as one can close off all distracting sensory and mental images, operate the body under auto pilot, and concentrate on the mental visualizations alone... Although I wouldn't do it while crossing streets or driving in heavy traffic. ;-) Hope this helps. Best wishes, Leon Maurer On Apr 4, 2008, at 4/4/085:03 PM, brian scanlon wrote: > The Turanian Ancestral Taoist system -(a version of > the pre-Aryan/Atlantian system (Which the Aryan system > is the "Pre-Vedic system") developed and evolved by the > Turanians, teaches that the "Chakras" are actualy > united into one large Chakra, when one opens the > "Microcosmic orbit" (which is connecting the two most > important of the "8 Mysterious Vessels/Channels" and > increasing the flow of "Chi' within it) - > > The Microcosmic orbit is a core component of Turanian > Alchemy, and a very very important aspect of the > Esoteric System, which is missing from many of the > surviving national branchs, and/or it was re-imported > into modern systems, during the 1600-1800's. It is > essentialy a path bisecting the body in half, along > the center line of the body.It starts on the front of > the body within the tongue, than travels down the > chest to the groin, back to the tail bone, up the > spine, to the top of the head, ending in the roof of > the mouth, which when the tongue is placed there, > completes the "Circuit" for the Etheric/Pranic energy > to flow freely. It is Ovoid Shape, and is a > microcosmic version of the Macroscosmic "Cosmic Egg". > > The most interesting point, is that when the > Microcosmic path is opened fully, the chakras unite > into one strong Chakra field. At this time true > spiritual resurection can be practised and the Male > and Female energies of the Body can be united. At this > point, the body becomes a Neutral pole, or a Laya > Center as we say in Theosophy, or Zero point. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From kpauljohnson@yahoo.com Mon Apr 07 11:40:08 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: kpauljohnson@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 26651 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2008 18:13:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Apr 2008 18:13:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n17a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.124) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Apr 2008 18:13:29 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n17.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Apr 2008 18:13:29 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Apr 2008 18:13:29 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Apr 2008 18:13:29 -0000 Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2008 18:13:28 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.124 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 67.187.9.149 From: "kpauljohnson" Subject: Synchronicities and seven year cycles X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=85941729; y=mm3MwnBMNj6pRdabTMCswrEFGNeSSAkLz6sLPnRrzmhZJSbTOK8u X-Yahoo-Profile: kpauljohnson X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43470 Greetings theos-talkers, Friday was my last day of work, so as a retiree I'm now able to=20 devote some time to online fora. Last week also marked the=20 publication of the book I've been working on for quite a while.=20=20 Oddly, I've had the job I just retired from for seven years and also=20 started the book in early 2001. So both the job and the book project=20 suggest the reality of seven year cycles. The publisher has set up a=20 blog for me, which I've just started to work on. It does have a=20 newspaper story from last Friday already: http://www.backintyme/kpjohnson and the book is already available both at Barnes and Noble and Amazon: http://tinyurl.com/2j58wt http://tinyurl.com/2uyhev The only thing theosophically relevant about the new book is=20 that "universal brotherhood" really can be treated as a fact in=20 nature and not just an ideal-- through DNA testing. Our genetic=20 kinship with fellow humans and all other living beings can be=20 measured by increasingly precise instruments.=20=20 Paul From kpauljohnson@yahoo.com Mon Apr 07 15:32:08 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: kpauljohnson@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 52950 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2008 22:26:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Apr 2008 22:26:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n53c.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.187) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Apr 2008 22:26:04 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n53.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Apr 2008 22:26:04 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Apr 2008 22:26:04 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Apr 2008 22:26:04 -0000 Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2008 22:26:02 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.168.187 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 67.187.9.149 From: "kpauljohnson" Subject: Blog address corrected X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=85941729; y=etQ9VF3mLTbgu57biHR3hIb9XBn8L3uRvlWQ2Em1_3Tzod0sjbEx X-Yahoo-Profile: kpauljohnson X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43471 http://www.backintyme.com/kpjohnson From silva_cass@yahoo.com Mon Apr 07 17:03:25 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 56828 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2008 00:03:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Apr 2008 00:03:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52111.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.114) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Apr 2008 00:03:21 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 6675 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Apr 2008 00:03:21 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: IOhSGzQVM1lt3mbYZhVpgp9fPS1B2.FqTCPX.dbQdVI0dzuNFIavnUpmqYvFSrnjEuHQiL2luB0GYrocrRbgunME3Cn5ONB3EzvrYPfOuUWHf7UZcv1Y32II5UtUiqrh_OWVRj7R69aaMNBfB_E- X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52111.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 07 Apr 2008 17:03:21 PDT Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 17:03:21 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <2DE4324E-FA69-4ED0-A454-5A3964055EE1@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <394278.415.qm@web52111.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.114 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Re:2012 Enigma X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=6JSIlYRK24EZAGxPK3JiqohfaaCZqN8VgQm0vpZMnrL4cU1tPg X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43472 I believe this is what David Willcox is saying, that the Chakras represent different levels of consciousness and the process of collapsing the shakras into the unfied nested spheres we reach a channel to the centre, or wormgate through which other planes of existence (psychic and spiritual dimensions) are accessible. He says, that the organ in the body, if not ossified, is through the pineal gland, which explains to me how after an accident or NDE the pineal gland must function as the silver cord connecting us to universal consciousness. If anyone listened to the video I posted,"I survived a Stroke" also gives a fascinating overview of how we are still aware when our left hemisphere has closed down. Cass Leon Maurer wrote: Hi all, Check out the diagram of the chakra fields as described in the ABC model of cosmogenesis**, that conforms perfectly with the cosmology of the Book of Dzyan, and is useful as a visualization when practicing the meditative system outlined in Patanjali's (Rajah) Yoga Aphorisms coupled with the Voice of the Silence -- which, taken together, are almost identical to the Esoteric meditative system described by Brian -- (which is more like a tantric version of kundalini yoga). **See, ABC theory of cosmogenesis and illustrations at: http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/23/13 and http://users.aol.com/leonmaurer/THOTH_IN_DIAMOND_SAMADHI.jpg http://users.aol.com/leonmaurer/Chakrafielddiag-fig.col.jpg http://users.aol.com/uniwldarts/uniworld.artisans.guild/chakrafield.gif Note the analogous relationship between the 8 inner chakra field complex (and it's two higher fields of Atma-Buddhi centered in the eye chakra) related to the physical body's overall spiritual field (centered in the heart chakra) -- and the 8 fields (and its two higher fields of atma-buddhi centered above the brahma chakra) related to the astral body's spiritual field (centered in the naval chakra) and linked, analogously, to the physical body's heart chakra. (Essentially, all zero-point centers of consciousness throughout the body (cellular, etc,) are entangled with the center of global self consciousness located in the naval chakra point.) This analogous and corresponding relationship is the basis of "As above, so below" -- which holographically extends and applies up to and through the entire cosmos and every sentient being in it. Thus at the primal beginning, the sleeping (pralaya) cosmos had its circumference everywhere (spinergy) and its center (consciousness) nowhere. And, after manifestation (manvantara) it is just the reverse. It follows, as the Buddha said, that both consciousness and matter are "dependently arising" out of "sunyata" or emptiness (of form or being). Therefore "sunyata" is just as real as everything that stems from it Since visualization is centered in the pineal or eye chakra, meditating on and understanding these relationships will aid in visualizing the ultimate merger of all the higher monadic (atma- buddhi-manas) zero-point chakra centers of the physical, astral, mental, spiritual bodies, and the corresponding solar bodies, galactic bodies, etc. When all these higher chakra field's zero point centers are correlated (merged) between the three human bodies, along with the corresponding solar and cosmic (monad chakra field) bodies and the total unity of the self with all selves is realized -- samadhi (enlightenment) is experienced, and at-one-ment of the body, mind and soul with the conscious Laya point source of all, is achieved. Remember that the holographic *information* for the structure of all these bodies, is stored everywhere in every zero-point "spinergy" center of every chakra field. This state corresponds with the "union" of the body's male and female energies... But such a rajah yoga meditative method can -- by visualization alone solely through the higher mind -- directly lift our consciousness from the physical plane to the spiritual plane, along with the automatic control of the breath, and the flow of chi energy through the "Nadi" channels.. Although there's nothing wrong with assisting this flow by placing the tongue against the roof of the mouth... Although no physical or tantric "positions" or special "breathing" are necessary for the dedicated rajah yoga meditator. ;-) BTW, such a "meditation with a seed," as taught by Patanjali, can be carried out anywhere, at any time, so long as one can close off all distracting sensory and mental images, operate the body under auto pilot, and concentrate on the mental visualizations alone... Although I wouldn't do it while crossing streets or driving in heavy traffic. ;-) Hope this helps. Best wishes, Leon Maurer On Apr 4, 2008, at 4/4/085:03 PM, brian scanlon wrote: > The Turanian Ancestral Taoist system -(a version of > the pre-Aryan/Atlantian system (Which the Aryan system > is the "Pre-Vedic system") developed and evolved by the > Turanians, teaches that the "Chakras" are actualy > united into one large Chakra, when one opens the > "Microcosmic orbit" (which is connecting the two most > important of the "8 Mysterious Vessels/Channels" and > increasing the flow of "Chi' within it) - > > The Microcosmic orbit is a core component of Turanian > Alchemy, and a very very important aspect of the > Esoteric System, which is missing from many of the > surviving national branchs, and/or it was re-imported > into modern systems, during the 1600-1800's. It is > essentialy a path bisecting the body in half, along > the center line of the body.It starts on the front of > the body within the tongue, than travels down the > chest to the groin, back to the tail bone, up the > spine, to the top of the head, ending in the roof of > the mouth, which when the tongue is placed there, > completes the "Circuit" for the Etheric/Pranic energy > to flow freely. It is Ovoid Shape, and is a > microcosmic version of the Macroscosmic "Cosmic Egg". > > The most interesting point, is that when the > Microcosmic path is opened fully, the chakras unite > into one strong Chakra field. At this time true > spiritual resurection can be practised and the Male > and Female energies of the Body can be united. At this > point, the body becomes a Neutral pole, or a Laya > Center as we say in Theosophy, or Zero point. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From professorjaya@yahoo.com Mon Apr 07 17:08:49 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: professorjaya@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 22350 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2008 00:08:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Apr 2008 00:08:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web65512.mail.ac4.yahoo.com) (76.13.9.56) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Apr 2008 00:08:49 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 23884 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Apr 2008 00:08:48 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: x6flHQgVM1lkUQoJffQTnBueBO63qp1d6k.E4jpv X-Received: from [198.188.96.2] by web65512.mail.ac4.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 07 Apr 2008 17:08:48 PDT Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 17:08:48 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <592253.23699.qm@web65512.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 76.13.9.56 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Jayananda Hiranandani Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Mahabharata on-line resource X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=136023466; y=tgM2d-ZZMPR2rBHSeiFA7oVEr5PXD0amo99pIwzGrssZxmn5lUwXTA X-Yahoo-Profile: professorjaya Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43473 Dear Geraldine: I suggest the following. www.wikipedia.org Dr. Besant has written it as a book. It is "Mahabharata Story of the Great War". >From your email address, you seem to be Australia. I do not know in which part of Australia you are. You may try to find it one of of the T.S. Libraries. Also, you may wish to explore www.abebooks.com to buy a used copy. Thanks. Yours cordially, Jayananda H. Hiranandani nhcareyta wrote: Dear Geraldine Here is a link which might be of help: http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/maha/index.htm Regards Nigel --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "geraldine pecorella" wrote: > > Dear Brothers& Sisters,Where is the best place to download stories of > the Mahabharata? > Thanks Geraldine > --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Mon Apr 07 17:43:18 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 28304 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2008 00:43:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Apr 2008 00:43:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52107.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.110) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Apr 2008 00:43:16 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 62343 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Apr 2008 00:43:15 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: zuykhaMVM1mKi9vSmtZCONMpvMV.F1jtedaufSLYgA3EoRO2nLJ4X5ZMIJQleSwoXGzgujqaGQwtGV..mIBJUs3pkQ.aMoYMbAVX X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52107.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 07 Apr 2008 17:43:15 PDT Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 17:43:15 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <765465.62089.qm@web52107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.110 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Synchronicities and seven year cycles X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=O2zrSKUkxZdU-c104sXIb8jFxZZUAd078ZdRxGtxYZsheGkoiQ X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43474 Good to have you back on board Paul, Cass kpauljohnson wrote: Greetings theos-talkers, Friday was my last day of work, so as a retiree I'm now able to devote some time to online fora. Last week also marked the publication of the book I've been working on for quite a while. Oddly, I've had the job I just retired from for seven years and also started the book in early 2001. So both the job and the book project suggest the reality of seven year cycles. The publisher has set up a blog for me, which I've just started to work on. It does have a newspaper story from last Friday already: http://www.backintyme/kpjohnson and the book is already available both at Barnes and Noble and Amazon: http://tinyurl.com/2j58wt http://tinyurl.com/2uyhev The only thing theosophically relevant about the new book is that "universal brotherhood" really can be treated as a fact in nature and not just an ideal-- through DNA testing. Our genetic kinship with fellow humans and all other living beings can be measured by increasingly precise instruments. Paul --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Mon Apr 07 18:48:21 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 14091 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2008 01:46:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Apr 2008 01:46:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d05.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.37) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Apr 2008 01:46:53 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d66.28faf208 (37528) for ; Mon, 7 Apr 2008 21:46:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from webmail-db06 (webmail-db06.webmail.aol.com [205.188.105.71]) by cia-mb01.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMB011-929847face798; Mon, 07 Apr 2008 21:46:33 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2008 21:46:33 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 69.217.171.151 In-Reply-To: <765465.62089.qm@web52107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 35790-STANDARD X-Received: from 69.217.171.151 by webmail-db06.sysops.aol.com (205.188.105.71) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 07 Apr 2008 21:46:33 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA67318209E69A-147C-1F0D@webmail-db06.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.157.37 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Synchronicities and seven year cycles X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=NLfeSO7EfpUukVQPftcc20yqqQO-JcjlENZy9zhNVjrs20McVw X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43475 Yes, it is good to have you back and we can't wait to see what kind of trouble this book will get you into. And yes, I'm having fun. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 7:43 pm Subject: Re: Theos-World Synchronicities and seven year cycles Good to have you back on board Paul, Cass kpauljohnson wrote: Greetings theos-talkers, Friday was my last day of work, so as a retiree I'm now able to devote some time to online fora. Last week also marked the publication of the book I've been working on for quite a while. Oddly, I've had the job I just retired from for seven years and also started the book in early 2001. So both the job and the book project suggest the reality of seven year cycles. The publisher has set up a blog for me, which I've just started to work on. It does have a newspaper story from last Friday already: http://www.backintyme/kpjohnson and the book is already available both at Barnes and Noble and Amazon: http://tinyurl.com/2j58wt http://tinyurl.com/2uyhev The only thing theosophically relevant about the new book is that "universal brotherhood" really can be treated as a fact in nature and not just an ideal-- through DNA testing. Our genetic kinship with fellow humans and all other living beings can be measured by increasingly precise instruments. Paul --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From kpauljohnson@yahoo.com Mon Apr 07 19:30:34 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: kpauljohnson@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 11228 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2008 02:30:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Apr 2008 02:30:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n28a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.246) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Apr 2008 02:30:31 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n28.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Apr 2008 02:30:31 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Apr 2008 02:30:31 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Apr 2008 02:30:31 -0000 Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 02:30:31 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <765465.62089.qm@web52107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 209.131.38.246 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 67.187.9.149 From: "kpauljohnson" Subject: Documentary on HPB X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=85941729; y=taviBlSOH4wDpcPsORxhXqCVCcnvxs6lB07i6G-1QwwNtLbSzdK8 X-Yahoo-Profile: kpauljohnson X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43476 --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva wrote: > > Good to have you back on board Paul, > Cass >=20 Thanks, Cass, I appreciate that. You might be interested in knowing=20 about the Canadian TV documentary on HPB that aired in January. I was=20 featured along with James Santucci, Marion Meade, and Will Thackara.=20=20 Here's an intro clip: http://www.visiontv.ca/Enigma/blavatsky_video.html I would hope any admirer of HPB finds the episode interesting and well=20 done. There is a post online (not from the producers but a third=20 party) saying that Reel Time Images will sell these episodes of the=20 Enigma series for $19.95 plus shipping, but I can't find any evidence=20 they are available yet. From mkr777@gmail.com Mon Apr 07 20:33:38 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 65691 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2008 03:33:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Apr 2008 03:33:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO hs-out-0708.google.com) (64.233.178.240) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Apr 2008 03:33:34 -0000 X-Received: by hs-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id j58so1386050hsj.6 for ; Mon, 07 Apr 2008 20:33:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.42.4 with SMTP id p4mr11856820anp.118.1207625614610; Mon, 07 Apr 2008 20:33:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Mon, 7 Apr 2008 20:33:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 22:33:34 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: X-Originating-IP: 64.233.178.240 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Synchronicities and seven year cycles X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=3aaQJLLbMcFpR0Y33IwWrD1XaTnBDJvP0I0Ro8S18cy1vFMnFOw Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43477 You should consider yourselves lucky. Many do not retire and work on until they are physically unable to do. Look forward to your further participation here. mkr On 4/7/08, kpauljohnson wrote: > > Greetings theos-talkers, > > Friday was my last day of work, so as a retiree I'm now able to > devote some time to online fora. Last week also marked the > publication of the book I've been working on for quite a while. > Oddly, I've had the job I just retired from for seven years and also > started the book in early 2001. So both the job and the book project > suggest the reality of seven year cycles. The publisher has set up a > blog for me, which I've just started to work on. It does have a > newspaper story from last Friday already: > > http://www.backintyme/kpjohnson > > and the book is already available both at Barnes and Noble and Amazon: > > http://tinyurl.com/2j58wt > > http://tinyurl.com/2uyhev > > The only thing theosophically relevant about the new book is > that "universal brotherhood" really can be treated as a fact in > nature and not just an ideal-- through DNA testing. Our genetic > kinship with fellow humans and all other living beings can be > measured by increasingly precise instruments. > > Paul > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com Tue Apr 08 07:37:26 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 67283 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2008 14:36:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Apr 2008 14:36:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n48d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.174) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Apr 2008 14:36:33 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n48.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Apr 2008 14:36:33 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Apr 2008 14:36:33 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Apr 2008 14:36:33 -0000 Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 14:36:33 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.169.174 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 83.87.102.145 From: "christinaleestemaker" Subject: Radha's reading on science in Helsinki X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162317756; y=c_YclrfTgaht2YnSZnrHpSv_D_NoR6CyHcjneg88tx6rVXICDQvieqp5sUs6u_Y X-Yahoo-Profile: christinaleestemaker X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43478 To be seen at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DK6-bPn3tiNA From christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com Tue Apr 08 07:47:34 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 37503 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2008 14:45:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Apr 2008 14:45:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n51b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.165) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Apr 2008 14:45:44 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n51.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Apr 2008 14:45:44 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Apr 2008 14:45:44 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Apr 2008 14:45:44 -0000 Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 14:45:44 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.168.165 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 83.87.102.145 From: "christinaleestemaker" Subject: intervieuw with Radha 9 min,video X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162317756; y=muyGpY7N1eN2R9wrRHEuqltVf9uk8XzGPyMJmtLCwJ7RPyHwxRxKbtEYqNJU6WU X-Yahoo-Profile: christinaleestemaker X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43479 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DdJ1kQP2WAq8&feature=3Drelated From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Tue Apr 08 10:20:09 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 26761 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2008 17:14:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Apr 2008 17:14:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mx05.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.25) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Apr 2008 17:14:35 -0000 X-Received: from 56341115.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.17.21] helo=khidr) by mx05.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1JjHP1-0000h6-0R for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 08 Apr 2008 19:14:35 +0200 Message-ID: <00b001c8999c$0f823ac0$15113456@khidr> To: Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 19:14:53 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.25 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" Subject: Earth in crisis, warns NASA's top climate scientist X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=NHKO-LsfcWGqxhTnh-8DnvitVFJ6CSXmRMyNylZAFatZ X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43480 To all readers My views are: Here is a part of a very recent article. A part of it is very interesting to digest. Earth in crisis, warns NASA's top climate scientist "Global warming has plunged the planet into a crisis and the fossil fuel industries are trying to hide the extent of the problem from the public, NASA's top climate scientist says." " "We've already reached the dangerous level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere," James Hansen, 67, director of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York, told AFP here. "But there are ways to solve the problem" of heat-trapping greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide, which Hansen said has reached the "tipping point" of 385 parts per million. In a paper he was submitting to Science magazine on Monday, Hansen calls for phasing out all coal-fired plants by 2030, taxing their emissions until then, and banning the building of new plants unless they are designed to trap and segregate the carbon dioxide they emit. The major obstacle to saving the planet from its inhabitants is not technology, insisted Hansen, named one of the world's 100 most influential people in 2006 by Time magazine. "The problem is that 90 percent of energy is fossil fuels. And that is such a huge business, it has permeated our government," he maintained. "What's become clear to me in the past several years is that both the executive branch and the legislative branch are strongly influenced by special fossil fuel interests," he said, referring to the providers of coal, oil and natural gas and the energy industry that burns them. " http://www.physorg.com/news126761406.html M. Sufilight [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Apr 08 14:21:17 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 69807 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2008 21:21:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Apr 2008 21:21:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO hs-out-0708.google.com) (64.233.178.245) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Apr 2008 21:21:14 -0000 X-Received: by hs-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id x43so1898121hsb.0 for ; Tue, 08 Apr 2008 14:21:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.248.9 with SMTP id v9mr2417801anh.86.1207689674009; Tue, 08 Apr 2008 14:21:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Tue, 8 Apr 2008 14:21:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 16:21:13 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: X-Originating-IP: 64.233.178.245 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Radha's reading on science in Helsinki X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=aBodvdJ8C_KFI2pz0sOBaFt2yMhl45VBzJCNj_xK3UPPMWNSGuE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43481 thanks On 4/8/08, christinaleestemaker wrote: > > To be seen at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6-bPn3tiNA > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Mvandertak@yahoo.com Tue Apr 08 14:32:38 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Mvandertak@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 61420 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2008 21:32:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Apr 2008 21:32:36 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n9.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.136) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Apr 2008 21:32:36 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.90] by n9.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Apr 2008 21:32:35 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t6.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Apr 2008 21:32:35 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Apr 2008 21:32:35 -0000 Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 21:32:35 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <426047.25669.qm@web23411.mail.ird.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.103.136 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 212.127.190.196 From: "Martin" Subject: Theos-World Re: Music, the language of the Soul X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=38276385; y=XRJOwdlHVLfN9xLKbLPFRw0xx_ez3EmKXneLWAW11i66DWvqxQ X-Yahoo-Profile: mvandertak X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43482 It's not ready as of yet but to get an idea for now, check out the=20 DVD Gypsy Caravan: trailer here: http://www.a-film.nl/trailer.php?id=3D1560 This movie showed me more brotherhood in 2 hours, than I have shared=20 the last 30 years with theosophists... --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Antonio/Tony None=20 wrote: > > Yes, absoloutly. >=20 > Martin wrote: Yes will=20 link you to it when its readx. My friend is > jewish btw and he respects the work of the others. So > only if they agree I will give it free...:-) >=20=20 > --- Antonio/Tony None > wrote: >=20=20 > > Any chance of a listen? I am working with a lot of > > arabic sounds at the minute. Would be interesting to > > hear what its all about! > >=20 > > Cheers. > >=20 > > Martin wrote: = =20 > > I just got this email from a friend, > > which proves to me, music has no=20 > > prejudice :-) > >=20=20 > > Hello friends, > >=20=20=20 > > As you know I live in Israel, the 2 weeks I'm > > Mixing here (here=20 > > means at my studio) > > a new disk for an Arab Palestinian, a great guy,=20 > > and a very good=20 > > musician !! > > Most of the music was recorded in Amman (Jordan)=20 > > some of the=20 > > musician playing there > > were brought specaially from Egyps (as they are > > playing authentic=20 > > rare arab instruments) > > some tracks recorded in Nazareth, no one of the > > musicians (exept of=20 > > the guy I'm working with) > > knows a thing about the other musicians - and of > > caurse how the music=20 > > will come out - as each Musician was playing only > > with 1 instrument=20 > > prerecorded as a guide line.. > > I must say it's very special, all the > > situation,from all=20 > > aspects..... and so is the music !!!! > >=20=20 > >=20=20 > >=20=20=20=20=20=20 > > = =20 > >=20 > >=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 > > --------------------------------- > > Yahoo! for Good helps you make a difference > >=20 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > >=20 > >=20 >=20=20 > __________________________________________________________ > No Cost - Get a month of Blockbuster Total Access now. Sweet deal=20 for Yahoo! users and friends.=20 > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text1.com >=20=20 >=20=20=20=20=20=20 > = =20 >=20 >=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 > --------------------------------- > Sent from Yahoo! Mail. > A Smarter Inbox. >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > From silva_cass@yahoo.com Tue Apr 08 15:41:52 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 53040 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2008 22:41:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Apr 2008 22:41:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52112.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.115) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Apr 2008 22:41:48 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 12814 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Apr 2008 22:41:44 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: NaykWk8VM1njkH5jMbi669amHa3TtLyfMdT0iNmTo2z1QuZdeJJKVJUwFJYOfukpjf8fERKCyX_mSPigETu94EpQdutyUOYYRM4k2Tk6X6DwCFXGzYQ1.6.a9pCoBZeqXC7m.BW2NWRrKJqciK1Qn0cpiw-- X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52112.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Apr 2008 15:41:44 PDT Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 15:41:44 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <434589.12653.qm@web52112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.115 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Documentary on HPB X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=ozB0Mi9OVk0yOq2UWDrxoqhqx84fU4gU4S-IwlkgV_6qvz3pkw X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43483 Cheers Paul, will check it out. Cass kpauljohnson wrote: --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva wrote: > > Good to have you back on board Paul, > Cass > Thanks, Cass, I appreciate that. You might be interested in knowing about the Canadian TV documentary on HPB that aired in January. I was featured along with James Santucci, Marion Meade, and Will Thackara. Here's an intro clip: http://www.visiontv.ca/Enigma/blavatsky_video.html I would hope any admirer of HPB finds the episode interesting and well done. There is a post online (not from the producers but a third party) saying that Reel Time Images will sell these episodes of the Enigma series for $19.95 plus shipping, but I can't find any evidence they are available yet. --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Tue Apr 08 17:25:31 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 20623 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2008 00:25:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Apr 2008 00:25:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.104) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Apr 2008 00:25:30 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 77737 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Apr 2008 00:25:27 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: KV_Vj8EVM1n1DzVdmxOI5BIsne7RyJjVdh8c.fvSAH7ezY0sOMatIpArH9EBeWN_XJ8kjZboyKVp0i6fmzFhr54luf9ma.P5r8RQaqr9iUOo3D29tJqaBvPsQdqhqoGmQy8q.R4JRkSFIlI- X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Apr 2008 17:25:26 PDT Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 17:25:26 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <982501.77676.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.104 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Radha's reading on science in Helsinki X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=2J08VL-aiLhyZYetAEWGKgEUvQu34sG71yJw1aT-u3MjpZNb1Q X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43484 Thanks Christina, I find her very hard to hear, but she doesn't seem to be saying anything new. Cass christinaleestemaker wrote: To be seen at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6-bPn3tiNA --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Apr 08 19:43:08 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 95929 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2008 02:43:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Apr 2008 02:43:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.247) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Apr 2008 02:43:05 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c38so849429ana.82 for ; Tue, 08 Apr 2008 19:43:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.172.16 with SMTP id u16mr13278192ane.29.1207708984992; Tue, 08 Apr 2008 19:43:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Tue, 8 Apr 2008 19:43:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 21:43:04 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <982501.77676.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <982501.77676.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.247 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Radha's reading on science in Helsinki X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=q_JWzXfE2kRGyoklB-Yt85lHOE_jzE9GOoVD8spVDkZkOxUrK2I Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43485 Have not you heard that there is nothing new under the Sun! mkr On 4/8/08, Cass Silva wrote: > > Thanks Christina, > I find her very hard to hear, but she doesn't seem to be saying anything > new. > Cass > > christinaleestemaker > > wrote: > To be seen at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6-bPn3tiNA > > --------------------------------- > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster > Total Access, No Cost. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From semockr@hotmail.com Tue Apr 08 20:13:50 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: semockr@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 67045 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2008 03:13:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Apr 2008 03:13:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n24c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.214) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Apr 2008 03:13:47 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Apr 2008 03:13:47 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Apr 2008 03:13:47 -0000 Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 03:13:47 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <277759.72064.qm@web52112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.218.67.214 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 75.62.18.24 From: "Richard Semock" Subject: Theos-World Re: The US Constitution - A Midsummer Nights Dream X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=68064314; y=9e7o0Qypz-RxdopzxDhK903ma0PaXoondCakoWpf2TG8Sw X-Yahoo-Profile: semockr X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43486 Speaking of casting stones, name one European or middle eastern=20 country that wasnt formed by grabbing the land from someone who was=20 there first. They continued this pattern in the Americas until now=20 everyone is a holier-than-thou bunch of reformed drunks chasing after=20 escaped Nazis, and an assortment of dictators who step across the=20 line today. Genghis Khan who hailed from central Asia was the greatest of the=20 ethnic cleansers tho who it is said left heaps of bones across=20 Europe. Where do you think the Europeans got the idea, right from=20 your Chinese friends who are still doing it today to their own people=20 in the form of organ harvesting of the Falun Gong or to others such=20 as the Tibetans and this is only the tip of the iceberg. --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva wrote: > > Richard, people in glass houses, should not throw stones as the old=20 saying goes. I am not an American and I am totally unfamiliar with=20 your constitution, but I was referrring to Free Speech not the=20 freedom of religious beliefs. The freedom of religious beliefs were=20 made at a time when there was only two religions operating in the=20 west, christianity and protestanism. Salem showed that religious=20 beliefs were strictly christian beliefs. >=20=20=20=20 > For the record, I do not support China's actions in Tibet, as=20 much as I do not support the horrors perpetrated by the christian=20 settlers on the American Indians. But there is no hypocricy with the=20 Chinese, they do not hide behind a constitution that is constantly=20 set up as the ideal and at the same time flagrantly crushes those=20 ideals.=20 >=20=20=20=20 > Cass > Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of=20 religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the=20 freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people=20 peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress=20 of grievances. >=20=20=20=20 > After World War I, several cases involving laws limiting speech=20 came before the Supreme Court. The Espionage Act of 1917 imposed a=20 maximum sentence of twenty years for anyone who caused or attempted=20 to cause "insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty in=20 the military or naval forces of the United States." Under the Act,=20 over two thousand prosecutions were commenced. For instance, one=20 filmmaker was sentenced to ten years imprisonment because his=20 portrayal of British soldiers in a movie about the American=20 Revolution impugned the good faith of an American ally, the United=20 Kingdom. The Sedition Act of 1918 went even further,=20 criminalizing "disloyal," "scurrilous" or "abusive" language against=20 the government. > in 1968, the Court upheld a law prohibiting the mutilation of=20 draft cards in United States v. O'Brien 391 U.S. 367 (1968). The=20 Court ruled that protesters could not burn draft cards because doing=20 so would interfere with the "smooth and efficient functioning" of the=20 draft system. Then again, in 1971, the court found that a person=20 could not be punished for wearing, in the corridors of the Los=20 Angeles county Courthouse, a jacket reading "Fuck the Draft," Cohen=20 v. California (403 U.S. 15). > In 1969, the Supreme Court ruled that free speech rights extended=20 to students in school while deciding Tinker v. Des Moines Independent=20 Community School District, 393 U.S. 503 (1969). The case involved=20 several students who were punished for wearing black arm-bands to=20 protest the Vietnam War. The Supreme Court ruled that the school=20 could not restrict symbolic speech that did not cause undue=20 interruptions of school activities. Justice Abe Fortas=20 wrote, "schools may not be enclaves of totalitarianism. School=20 officials do not possess absolute authority over their students.=20 Students...are possessed of fundamental rights which the State must=20 respect, just as they themselves must respect their obligations to=20 the State." The decision was arguably overruled, or at least=20 undermined, by Bethel School District v. Fraser 478 U.S. 675 (1986),=20 in which the Court held a student could be punished for his speech=20 before a public assembly. > Also in 1969, the Court decided the landmark Brandenburg v. Ohio,=20 395 U.S. 444 (1969) , which overruled Whitney v. California 274 U.S.=20 357 (1927), a case in which a woman was imprisoned for aiding the=20 Communist Party. Brandenburg effectively swept away Dennis as well,=20 casting the right to speak freely of violent action and revolution in=20 broad terms: "[Our] decisions have fashioned the principle that the=20 constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press do not permit=20 a State to forbid or proscribe advocacy of the use of force or of law=20 violation except where such advocacy is directed to inciting or=20 producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce=20 such action." Some claim that Brandenburg essentially sets forth a=20 reworded "clear and present danger" test, but the accuracy of such=20 statements is hard to judge. The Court has never heard or decided a=20 case involving seditious speech since Brandenburg was handed down. > The federal government and the states have long been permitted to=20 restrict obscenity or pornography. While obscenity generally has no=20 protection under the First Amendment, pornography is subject to=20 little regulation. The exact definition of obscenity and pornography,=20 however, has changed over time. > When it decided Rosen v. United States in 1896, the Supreme Court=20 adopted the same obscenity standard as had been articulated in a=20 famous British case, Regina v. Hicklin. The Hicklin standard defined=20 material as obscene if it tended "to deprave or corrupt those whose=20 minds are open to such immoral influences, and into whose hands a=20 publication of this sort may fall." In 1957, the Court ruled in Roth=20 v. United States that the Hicklin test was inappropriate. Instead,=20 the Roth test for obscenity was "whether to the average person,=20 applying contemporary community standards, the dominant theme of the=20 material, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest." > In 1964 Justice Potter Stewart, in Jacobellis v. Ohio, famously=20 stated that, although he could not precisely define pornography, "I=20 know it when I see it." >=20=20=20=20 >=20=20=20=20=20=20 >=20=20=20=20 >=20 > Richard Semock wrote: >=20 > If you are refering to the 1st amendment right in the US=20 > constitution, your proposal would be a poor test of it. It falls=20 into=20 > the class of endangering speech such as crying fire! in a crowded=20 > ballet performance and would not be deemed a freedom.=20 >=20 > Now if you want to say something like this to the CCP potentates in=20 > Tibet, then that would be another matter entirely and one worthy of=20 > support. >=20 > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva wrote: > > > > We can test the 'ideal' or notion of freedom of speech, by=20 telling=20 > a Judge or a Policemen to get f*****. > > Cass > >=20 > > Drpsionic@ wrote: > > It's an ideal that has the force of law behind it in the=20 > US.? If an athlete is actually disciplined by the US Olympic=20 > committee, he can probably sue for consipiracy to violate his civil=20 > rights and given the way the courts rule in such matters, collect=20 > significant damages. > >=20 > > We upset the apple cart all the time around here. > >=20 > > Chuck the Heretic > >=20 > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano=20 > >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Cass Silva > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 7:08 pm > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Are China facing the Law of Karma? > >=20 > > So much for freedom of speech eh! My mother told me years ago=20 that=20 > freedom of speech is just an ideal, it doesn't exist in the real=20 > world. It's a nice idea but upset the apple cart and you will be=20 > regarded as a bad apple and dealt with appropriately. The ideal of=20 > national security has taken away all our personal freedoms. We have=20 a=20 > new nose on an old face, democracy mimicking communism. Democracy=20 > invents a reason, doesn't matter if it is true or false, communism=20 > promised a better way of life.=20 > >=20 > > Cass > >=20 > > Cass > >=20 > > Drpsionic@ wrote: > >=20 > > The IOC has placed restrictions on what the athletes can say at=20 > olympic events, however, at least as far as the US is concerned, I=20 > would not be surprised if Congress passes a bill forbidding the US=20 > olympic committee from enforcing any restrictions on what US=20 athletes=20 > might say in protest and that would also block any disciplinary=20 > action by the IOC as well as the US olympic committee would have to=20 > enforce those. > >=20 > > Chuck the Heretic > >=20 > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano=20 > >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Cass Silva > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 9:17 pm > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Are China facing the Law of Karma? > >=20 > > Come to think of it, very little advertising in Australia this=20 year=20 > for the Olympics.=20 > > Cass > >=20 > > Drpsionic@ wrote: > > No, they wouldn't change the location now, but it would certainly=20 > make life interesting for the IOC.? By the way, my wife has noticed=20 > something.? Normally the companies that sponsor the games use that=20 in=20 > their advertising, usually at the tail end of their commercials=20 with=20 > the olympic logo.? Not this year.? They are not mentioning it at=20 all,=20 > which means that the sponsors?are already losing money. > >=20 > > Chuck the Heretic > >=20 > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano=20 > >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Cass Silva > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 4:38 am > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Are China facing the Law of Karma? > >=20 > > It won't happen Chuck, too much money invested. They could ban=20 > China and reschedule the games back to Greece, but that won't=20 happen. > > Not taking any sides but I heard on the news that inflation is=20 now=20 > running at 9 percent in Tibet and the people are struggling=20 > economically, on the good side, their health and education has been=20 > improved since chinese occupation, life mortality is up apparently,=20 > but I suppose its no good living longer if you dont have the money=20 to=20 > feed yourself. > >=20 > > Cass > >=20 > > Drpsionic@ wrote: > >=20 > > China believes that Tibet is a part of China.?=20 > >=20 > > China is an interesting country in that it actually does not have=20 a=20 > history expansionism after the Mongols, but it does claim an=20 interest=20 > in certain contiguous territories. > >=20 > > Now, conventional protests don't work on the Chinese.? They have=20 > skins almost as thick as American conservatives and they just don't=20 > give a damn.? But they are sensitive to certain things and while=20 the=20 > IOC is not going to cancel its games, the IOC can be made to pay=20 for=20 > having them in China, or rather its sponsors can.? Now this is=20 really=20 > out of my field of knowledge, but if a major boycott of Olympic=20 > sponsors could be organized... > >=20 > > Chuck the Heretic > >=20 > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano=20 > >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Cass Silva > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 6:06 pm > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Are China facing the Law of Karma? > >=20 > > I am curious to know why China would be interested in Tibet. It's=20 > not as though the country would ever be a threat to China, it's not=20 > as though they have minerals or oil, perhaps the only threat is=20 that=20 > the Chinese fear that Tibetinism will spread to the Mainland, who=20 > knows? If Karma is involved Morten, I suspect that Tibet is also=20 > dealing with its national karma as well as China. > >=20 > > Cass > >=20 > > Morten Nymann Olesen wrote: > >=20 > > To all readers > >=20 > > To all readers > >=20 > > My views are: > >=20 > > Now, what is going on? > >=20 > > Are China facing the Law of Karma? > >=20 > > Tibet gripped by violent clashes > >=20 > > a.. Jonathan Watts in Beijing=20 > >=20 > > b.. guardian.co.uk,=20 > >=20 > > c.. Friday March 14 2008 > >=20 > > d.. Article history > >=20 > > About this article > >=20 > > Close=20 > >=20 > > This article was first published on guardian.co.uk on Friday=20 March=20 > 14 2008. It was last updated at 14:56 on March 14 2008. > >=20 > > Tibetans throw stones at Chinese army vehicles in Lhasa as=20 violent=20 > protests against Chinese rule break out. Photograph: AFP/Getty=20 Images > >=20 > > The Tibetan capital of Lhasa was on the brink of chaos today as=20 the=20 > fiercest anti-government protests in almost 20 years erupted into=20 > violence between Chinese security forces and protesters wielding=20 iron=20 > bars. > >=20 > > A radio station reported at least two people had been killed in=20 the=20 > rioting. The US-funded Radio Free Asia quoted two witnesses as=20 saying=20 > two bodies were seen lying on the ground in the Barkor area, a=20 > shopping district where protests had been particularly fierce. > >=20 > > Armed police used water cannons and teargas on the crowds, and=20 > witnesses say security vehicles were set on fire and Chinese=20 drivers=20 > were carried off with bloodied faces after being beaten by a mob of=20 > young Tibetans. > >=20 > > The US embassy in Beijing said its citizens in Lhasa had reported=20 > gunshots being fired in the city. The embassy emailed an advisory=20 > note to Americans warning them to stay away from the city, now in=20 its=20 > fifth day of anti-Chinese protests. > >=20 > > The Dalai Lama, the spiritual leader of Tibet's Buddhists, urged=20 > China not to use violence to quell the protests, which he called "a=20 > manifestation of the deep-rooted resentment of the Tibetan people=20 > under the present governance". > >=20 > > "I therefore appeal to the Chinese leadership to stop using force=20 > and address the long-simmering resentment of the Tibetan people=20 > through dialogue with the Tibetan people," he said in a statement. > >=20 > > The EU and the White House also issued statements urging China to=20 > show restraint. > >=20 > > Coming just months before the start of the 2008 Olympics, the=20 > protests against Beijing rule threaten to overshadow preparations=20 for=20 > the games. > >=20 > > A resident told the Guardian that he heard an explosion and=20 around=20 > 10 shots every minute at one point, but thought it was teargas=20 rather=20 > than bullets being fired because he saw people running from plumes=20 of=20 > smoke and covering their mouths. > >=20 > > "I am too afraid to go out," the source, who asked to remain=20 > anonymous, said. "It is chaos out there." > >=20 > > The source, who is from the Chinese Han ethnic group, said he saw=20 > Tibetans attack two fire engines. > >=20 > > "I saw Tibetans throwing stones at the vehicles. They dragged=20 > drivers from vehicles, took off their uniforms and helmets, then=20 beat=20 > them. > >=20 > > "The chanting mob beat up around five or six drivers who had to=20 be=20 > carried away with blood on their faces ... then they put a=20 motorbike=20 > under the fire engine and set fire to it so the engine was burned." > >=20 > > The report was difficult to confirm. The Chinese government has=20 yet=20 > to make a statement, and communications with the tightly-controlled=20 > Himalayan region are difficult even during calm periods. > >=20 > > A blogger who writes from Lhasa under the name Beifang described=20 > the violence on his blog. > >=20 > > "Police cars and fire engines were outside smashed and burned. A=20 > lot of Tibetans ran towards Dazhao [Jokhang] temple. I heard=20 > gunshots. Five army police vehicles drove that way. A large number=20 of=20 > armed police followed. A few people with blood on their faces were=20 > taken away." > >=20 > > Tibetan support groups overseas said they were hearing reports of=20 a=20 > fire and protests near the Tromsikhang market near the Jokhang=20 temple=20 > in central Lhasa. > >=20 > > According to the Free Tibet campaign, there were also protests=20 > today in the Labrang monastery in Gansu province, where 200 monks=20 led=20 > demonstrations on the streets. The group said this showed the=20 > protests were gathering momentum. > >=20 > > The AFP news agency said one of its reporters saw monks leading a=20 > crowd of around 300 people near the monastery, one of the most=20 > important in Tibetan Buddhism. > >=20 > > Since the first protest by monks on Monday, thousands of armed=20 > police have locked down monasteries in and around Lhasa. Witnesses=20 > said today's protesters were mostly lay Tibetans. > >=20 > > China's Xinhua news agency reported that shops had been set on=20 fire=20 > in Lhasa but gave no other details.=20 > >=20 > > The International Campaign for Tibet said two monks at the Sera=20 > monastery had stabbed themselves and others had gone on hunger=20 strike. > >=20 > > About a dozen monks were reportedly detained on Monday, when=20 > several hundred from the Sera and Drepung monasteries took to the=20 > streets to mark the 49th anniversary of a failed uprising against=20 > Beijing. Similar protests took place in the Ganden and Lutsang=20 > monasteries in Qinghai (known in Tibetan as Amdo) where hundreds of=20 > monks reportedly chanted slogans calling for their exiled leader,=20 the=20 > Dalai Lama, to return. > >=20 > > The upsurge in activism comes amid growing frustration with the=20 > lack of progress in talks between representatives of the Dalai Lama=20 > and Beijing. > >=20 > > M. Sufilight > >=20 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >=20 > > --------------------------------- > >=20 > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with=20 Yahoo!=20 > Search. > >=20 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >=20 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >=20 > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!=20 Mobile.=20 > Try it now. > >=20 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >=20 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >=20 > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!=20 Mobile.=20 > Try it now. > >=20 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >=20 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >=20 > > --------------------------------- > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with=20 Yahoo!=20 > Search. > >=20 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >=20 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!=20 Mobile.=20 > Try it now. > >=20 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >=20 >=20 >=20 > = =20 >=20 >=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Apr 08 20:29:36 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 19134 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2008 03:29:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Apr 2008 03:29:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.243) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Apr 2008 03:29:34 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c24so569461ana.96 for ; Tue, 08 Apr 2008 20:29:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.227.6 with SMTP id z6mr14494585ang.41.1207711774155; Tue, 08 Apr 2008 20:29:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Tue, 8 Apr 2008 20:29:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 22:29:34 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.243 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Trying to locate a Master's Letter X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=LFRBeA6_O7muaOQ6YVZxF5DV0i2CyQ-pQK6A2LkZjtohENCiZSs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43487 Several months ago, in one of the msgs, a mention was made of a msg/letter from one of the Masters admonishing a theosophist about the laziness etc. It is not part of the letters to APS. Can someone point me to the source on cyberspace? mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Tue Apr 08 23:57:25 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 20545 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2008 06:57:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Apr 2008 06:57:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52109.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.112) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Apr 2008 06:57:21 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 85973 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Apr 2008 06:57:21 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Qxt0vNQVM1nvghLdveW0iuR3QoSeevKi1b1kY_eA X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52109.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 08 Apr 2008 23:57:20 PDT Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 23:57:20 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <107897.85488.qm@web52109.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.112 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: The US Constitution - A Midsummer Nights Dream X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=Y-Iaw_Ll1yxSr4JtqCbNuWTT-4zph9v0fm1pws-flRsoW0-S5g X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43488 Doesn't make it the right thing to do Richard Cass Richard Semock wrote: Speaking of casting stones, name one European or middle eastern country that wasnt formed by grabbing the land from someone who was there first. They continued this pattern in the Americas until now everyone is a holier-than-thou bunch of reformed drunks chasing after escaped Nazis, and an assortment of dictators who step across the line today. Genghis Khan who hailed from central Asia was the greatest of the ethnic cleansers tho who it is said left heaps of bones across Europe. Where do you think the Europeans got the idea, right from your Chinese friends who are still doing it today to their own people in the form of organ harvesting of the Falun Gong or to others such as the Tibetans and this is only the tip of the iceberg. --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva wrote: > > Richard, people in glass houses, should not throw stones as the old saying goes. I am not an American and I am totally unfamiliar with your constitution, but I was referrring to Free Speech not the freedom of religious beliefs. The freedom of religious beliefs were made at a time when there was only two religions operating in the west, christianity and protestanism. Salem showed that religious beliefs were strictly christian beliefs. > > For the record, I do not support China's actions in Tibet, as much as I do not support the horrors perpetrated by the christian settlers on the American Indians. But there is no hypocricy with the Chinese, they do not hide behind a constitution that is constantly set up as the ideal and at the same time flagrantly crushes those ideals. > > Cass > Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. > > After World War I, several cases involving laws limiting speech came before the Supreme Court. The Espionage Act of 1917 imposed a maximum sentence of twenty years for anyone who caused or attempted to cause "insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty in the military or naval forces of the United States." Under the Act, over two thousand prosecutions were commenced. For instance, one filmmaker was sentenced to ten years imprisonment because his portrayal of British soldiers in a movie about the American Revolution impugned the good faith of an American ally, the United Kingdom. The Sedition Act of 1918 went even further, criminalizing "disloyal," "scurrilous" or "abusive" language against the government. > in 1968, the Court upheld a law prohibiting the mutilation of draft cards in United States v. O'Brien 391 U.S. 367 (1968). The Court ruled that protesters could not burn draft cards because doing so would interfere with the "smooth and efficient functioning" of the draft system. Then again, in 1971, the court found that a person could not be punished for wearing, in the corridors of the Los Angeles county Courthouse, a jacket reading "Fuck the Draft," Cohen v. California (403 U.S. 15). > In 1969, the Supreme Court ruled that free speech rights extended to students in school while deciding Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District, 393 U.S. 503 (1969). The case involved several students who were punished for wearing black arm-bands to protest the Vietnam War. The Supreme Court ruled that the school could not restrict symbolic speech that did not cause undue interruptions of school activities. Justice Abe Fortas wrote, "schools may not be enclaves of totalitarianism. School officials do not possess absolute authority over their students. Students...are possessed of fundamental rights which the State must respect, just as they themselves must respect their obligations to the State." The decision was arguably overruled, or at least undermined, by Bethel School District v. Fraser 478 U.S. 675 (1986), in which the Court held a student could be punished for his speech before a public assembly. > Also in 1969, the Court decided the landmark Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444 (1969) , which overruled Whitney v. California 274 U.S. 357 (1927), a case in which a woman was imprisoned for aiding the Communist Party. Brandenburg effectively swept away Dennis as well, casting the right to speak freely of violent action and revolution in broad terms: "[Our] decisions have fashioned the principle that the constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press do not permit a State to forbid or proscribe advocacy of the use of force or of law violation except where such advocacy is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action." Some claim that Brandenburg essentially sets forth a reworded "clear and present danger" test, but the accuracy of such statements is hard to judge. The Court has never heard or decided a case involving seditious speech since Brandenburg was handed down. > The federal government and the states have long been permitted to restrict obscenity or pornography. While obscenity generally has no protection under the First Amendment, pornography is subject to little regulation. The exact definition of obscenity and pornography, however, has changed over time. > When it decided Rosen v. United States in 1896, the Supreme Court adopted the same obscenity standard as had been articulated in a famous British case, Regina v. Hicklin. The Hicklin standard defined material as obscene if it tended "to deprave or corrupt those whose minds are open to such immoral influences, and into whose hands a publication of this sort may fall." In 1957, the Court ruled in Roth v. United States that the Hicklin test was inappropriate. Instead, the Roth test for obscenity was "whether to the average person, applying contemporary community standards, the dominant theme of the material, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest." > In 1964 Justice Potter Stewart, in Jacobellis v. Ohio, famously stated that, although he could not precisely define pornography, "I know it when I see it." > > > > > Richard Semock wrote: > > If you are refering to the 1st amendment right in the US > constitution, your proposal would be a poor test of it. It falls into > the class of endangering speech such as crying fire! in a crowded > ballet performance and would not be deemed a freedom. > > Now if you want to say something like this to the CCP potentates in > Tibet, then that would be another matter entirely and one worthy of > support. > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva wrote: > > > > We can test the 'ideal' or notion of freedom of speech, by telling > a Judge or a Policemen to get f*****. > > Cass > > > > Drpsionic@ wrote: > > It's an ideal that has the force of law behind it in the > US.? If an athlete is actually disciplined by the US Olympic > committee, he can probably sue for consipiracy to violate his civil > rights and given the way the courts rule in such matters, collect > significant damages. > > > > We upset the apple cart all the time around here. > > > > Chuck the Heretic > > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Cass Silva > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 7:08 pm > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Are China facing the Law of Karma? > > > > So much for freedom of speech eh! My mother told me years ago that > freedom of speech is just an ideal, it doesn't exist in the real > world. It's a nice idea but upset the apple cart and you will be > regarded as a bad apple and dealt with appropriately. The ideal of > national security has taken away all our personal freedoms. We have a > new nose on an old face, democracy mimicking communism. Democracy > invents a reason, doesn't matter if it is true or false, communism > promised a better way of life. > > > > Cass > > > > Cass > > > > Drpsionic@ wrote: > > > > The IOC has placed restrictions on what the athletes can say at > olympic events, however, at least as far as the US is concerned, I > would not be surprised if Congress passes a bill forbidding the US > olympic committee from enforcing any restrictions on what US athletes > might say in protest and that would also block any disciplinary > action by the IOC as well as the US olympic committee would have to > enforce those. > > > > Chuck the Heretic > > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Cass Silva > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 9:17 pm > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Are China facing the Law of Karma? > > > > Come to think of it, very little advertising in Australia this year > for the Olympics. > > Cass > > > > Drpsionic@ wrote: > > No, they wouldn't change the location now, but it would certainly > make life interesting for the IOC.? By the way, my wife has noticed > something.? Normally the companies that sponsor the games use that in > their advertising, usually at the tail end of their commercials with > the olympic logo.? Not this year.? They are not mentioning it at all, > which means that the sponsors?are already losing money. > > > > Chuck the Heretic > > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Cass Silva > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 4:38 am > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Are China facing the Law of Karma? > > > > It won't happen Chuck, too much money invested. They could ban > China and reschedule the games back to Greece, but that won't happen. > > Not taking any sides but I heard on the news that inflation is now > running at 9 percent in Tibet and the people are struggling > economically, on the good side, their health and education has been > improved since chinese occupation, life mortality is up apparently, > but I suppose its no good living longer if you dont have the money to > feed yourself. > > > > Cass > > > > Drpsionic@ wrote: > > > > China believes that Tibet is a part of China.? > > > > China is an interesting country in that it actually does not have a > history expansionism after the Mongols, but it does claim an interest > in certain contiguous territories. > > > > Now, conventional protests don't work on the Chinese.? They have > skins almost as thick as American conservatives and they just don't > give a damn.? But they are sensitive to certain things and while the > IOC is not going to cancel its games, the IOC can be made to pay for > having them in China, or rather its sponsors can.? Now this is really > out of my field of knowledge, but if a major boycott of Olympic > sponsors could be organized... > > > > Chuck the Heretic > > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Cass Silva > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 6:06 pm > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Are China facing the Law of Karma? > > > > I am curious to know why China would be interested in Tibet. It's > not as though the country would ever be a threat to China, it's not > as though they have minerals or oil, perhaps the only threat is that > the Chinese fear that Tibetinism will spread to the Mainland, who > knows? If Karma is involved Morten, I suspect that Tibet is also > dealing with its national karma as well as China. > > > > Cass > > > > Morten Nymann Olesen wrote: > > > > To all readers > > > > To all readers > > > > My views are: > > > > Now, what is going on? > > > > Are China facing the Law of Karma? > > > > Tibet gripped by violent clashes > > > > a.. Jonathan Watts in Beijing > > > > b.. guardian.co.uk, > > > > c.. Friday March 14 2008 > > > > d.. Article history > > > > About this article > > > > Close > > > > This article was first published on guardian.co.uk on Friday March > 14 2008. It was last updated at 14:56 on March 14 2008. > > > > Tibetans throw stones at Chinese army vehicles in Lhasa as violent > protests against Chinese rule break out. Photograph: AFP/Getty Images > > > > The Tibetan capital of Lhasa was on the brink of chaos today as the > fiercest anti-government protests in almost 20 years erupted into > violence between Chinese security forces and protesters wielding iron > bars. > > > > A radio station reported at least two people had been killed in the > rioting. The US-funded Radio Free Asia quoted two witnesses as saying > two bodies were seen lying on the ground in the Barkor area, a > shopping district where protests had been particularly fierce. > > > > Armed police used water cannons and teargas on the crowds, and > witnesses say security vehicles were set on fire and Chinese drivers > were carried off with bloodied faces after being beaten by a mob of > young Tibetans. > > > > The US embassy in Beijing said its citizens in Lhasa had reported > gunshots being fired in the city. The embassy emailed an advisory > note to Americans warning them to stay away from the city, now in its > fifth day of anti-Chinese protests. > > > > The Dalai Lama, the spiritual leader of Tibet's Buddhists, urged > China not to use violence to quell the protests, which he called "a > manifestation of the deep-rooted resentment of the Tibetan people > under the present governance". > > > > "I therefore appeal to the Chinese leadership to stop using force > and address the long-simmering resentment of the Tibetan people > through dialogue with the Tibetan people," he said in a statement. > > > > The EU and the White House also issued statements urging China to > show restraint. > > > > Coming just months before the start of the 2008 Olympics, the > protests against Beijing rule threaten to overshadow preparations for > the games. > > > > A resident told the Guardian that he heard an explosion and around > 10 shots every minute at one point, but thought it was teargas rather > than bullets being fired because he saw people running from plumes of > smoke and covering their mouths. > > > > "I am too afraid to go out," the source, who asked to remain > anonymous, said. "It is chaos out there." > > > > The source, who is from the Chinese Han ethnic group, said he saw > Tibetans attack two fire engines. > > > > "I saw Tibetans throwing stones at the vehicles. They dragged > drivers from vehicles, took off their uniforms and helmets, then beat > them. > > > > "The chanting mob beat up around five or six drivers who had to be > carried away with blood on their faces ... then they put a motorbike > under the fire engine and set fire to it so the engine was burned." > > > > The report was difficult to confirm. The Chinese government has yet > to make a statement, and communications with the tightly-controlled > Himalayan region are difficult even during calm periods. > > > > A blogger who writes from Lhasa under the name Beifang described > the violence on his blog. > > > > "Police cars and fire engines were outside smashed and burned. A > lot of Tibetans ran towards Dazhao [Jokhang] temple. I heard > gunshots. Five army police vehicles drove that way. A large number of > armed police followed. A few people with blood on their faces were > taken away." > > > > Tibetan support groups overseas said they were hearing reports of a > fire and protests near the Tromsikhang market near the Jokhang temple > in central Lhasa. > > > > According to the Free Tibet campaign, there were also protests > today in the Labrang monastery in Gansu province, where 200 monks led > demonstrations on the streets. The group said this showed the > protests were gathering momentum. > > > > The AFP news agency said one of its reporters saw monks leading a > crowd of around 300 people near the monastery, one of the most > important in Tibetan Buddhism. > > > > Since the first protest by monks on Monday, thousands of armed > police have locked down monasteries in and around Lhasa. Witnesses > said today's protesters were mostly lay Tibetans. > > > > China's Xinhua news agency reported that shops had been set on fire > in Lhasa but gave no other details. > > > > The International Campaign for Tibet said two monks at the Sera > monastery had stabbed themselves and others had gone on hunger strike. > > > > About a dozen monks were reportedly detained on Monday, when > several hundred from the Sera and Drepung monasteries took to the > streets to mark the 49th anniversary of a failed uprising against > Beijing. Similar protests took place in the Ganden and Lutsang > monasteries in Qinghai (known in Tibetan as Amdo) where hundreds of > monks reportedly chanted slogans calling for their exiled leader, the > Dalai Lama, to return. > > > > The upsurge in activism comes amid growing frustration with the > lack of progress in talks between representatives of the Dalai Lama > and Beijing. > > > > M. Sufilight > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! > Search. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > Try it now. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > Try it now. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > --------------------------------- > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! > Search. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > Try it now. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From kpauljohnson@yahoo.com Wed Apr 09 05:17:05 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: kpauljohnson@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 69945 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2008 12:17:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Apr 2008 12:17:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n9b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.101) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Apr 2008 12:17:02 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n9.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Apr 2008 12:16:59 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Apr 2008 12:16:59 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Apr 2008 12:16:59 -0000 Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 12:16:59 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <8CA67318209E69A-147C-1F0D@webmail-db06.sysops.aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.101 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 67.187.9.149 From: "kpauljohnson" Subject: Kinds of trouble historical authors face X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=85941729; y=TLcHn6H9EUIGH8APsdmAj1ZbMie-CihX55wzR9CcA9L7QaxsIG2n X-Yahoo-Profile: kpauljohnson X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43489 --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Drpsionic@... wrote: > > Yes, it is good to have you back and we can't wait to see what kind=20 of trouble this book will get you into. >=20 > And yes, I'm having fun. Howdy Chuck, I'm hoping that the worst that can happen already has. One of my=20 main sources, a lifelong resident of the area my grandparents left as=20 children, a fellow who slogged with me through swamps looking for=20 graves and shared his voluminous research files with me, got=20 extremely hateful and rejecting after seeing an early draft, and=20 demanded that his name be removed from the book. These things=20 happen, people you feel kinship with turn against you because of your=20 take on history, but this one was an extreme case. I recount it here=20 because it has a certain resonance with my Theosophical experience. His first objection was that certain things might be true, but ought=20 not to be told in books and that people in Bertie County will be=20 furious when they see it in a book. He was one of my main sources=20 for figuring out illegitimate births, but balked at being named in a=20 book saying so-and-so was a bastard. Understood; he lives there and=20 has to deal with the flack. Still, it really stung to be told that I=20 had no right to write about my own family history because of the=20 sensibilities of the people who still live in the place my=20 grandparents left over a hundred years ago. Objection number two was that I gave any credence whatsoever to the=20 research of Paul Heinegg, who demonstrates that the 19thc Free=20 Mulatto population of eastern North Carolina was largely descended=20 from 17thc African/European marriages in Virginia. He was willing to=20 admit that we might be part Indian, but to even mention the=20 possibility that we might be part African-- DO NOT PUT THAT IN A=20 BOOK!!! Objection number three was that I used "other people's research" and=20 had no right to do so. Example: Miriam told me that my gg=20 grandfather John Hughes was the illegitimate son of Wiley Askew. She=20 happened to have told me that on a yahoo group that I moderate, in=20 response to a direct question from me. Nonetheless, Miriam owns that=20 fact, this gentleman has the authority to tell me not to use it in my=20 book, despite that fact that John Hughes and Wiley Askew are MY=20 ancestors, not his or Miriam's. He lives there, he OWNS the facts=20 about history that occurred there, and even though these facts are=20 about my ancestors and not his, I have no right to write about them. Objection number four was that one of my subjects had already been=20 written about very much and thus I was trespassing on previous=20 authors (including himself, natch) who had written about him, if I=20 tried to add anything to the discussion. To some extent I'm stating=20 the implications of his remarks, but mostly they were outright=20 statements. This is just one case, out of dozens of folks who are embracing the=20 book (so far); but in light of my past experience I've been very=20 worried about the power of one infuriated individual or two to stir=20 up antagonism against me over historical issues. Ten years ago I swore off ever writing about religion again due to=20 the risks involved. And soon thereafter jumped right into writing=20 about race-- frying pans and fires come to mind! KPJ=20=20=20 From dzyan@online.de Wed Apr 09 06:02:25 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: dzyan@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 38812 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2008 13:02:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Apr 2008 13:02:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.187) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Apr 2008 13:02:22 -0000 X-Received: from captainp6d3981 (brln-4db913e2.pool.einsundeins.de [77.185.19.226]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu0) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MKwh2-1JjZwQ0lCB-0007I9; Wed, 09 Apr 2008 15:02:18 +0200 Message-ID: <027301c89a42$05cfe990$152ca8c0@captainp6d3981> To: References: Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 15:02:49 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+7BihBe59sn6NAkvfuMUp7kSvV/kPG1jvbx/b 5WOrbwkKV+Nk022FexJk/DCIpfWM1JxBsWliTgapcaBKMW/Ibq ZnSsqClmhrReMN84cQLoxUTzQD63Qsp X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.187 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World Kinds of trouble historical authors face X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=302625737; y=_xYrVbUKcOYeq3qTs1y_OVYZXaKmxUSMoMW_WyMx-jhax9TeuqrtlOz-EQ X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43490 An easy way to find out your descent: http://www.igenea.com/index.php?langchange=en Strange, you can also have jewish roots, although I hear every day, that jewish is a religion, not a race. Frank From Drpsionic@aol.com Wed Apr 09 08:32:18 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 95344 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2008 15:32:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Apr 2008 15:32:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m23.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.4) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Apr 2008 15:32:15 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c58.295f1b42 (37031) for ; Wed, 9 Apr 2008 11:32:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from webmail-me07 (webmail-me07.webmail.aol.com [64.12.88.199]) by cia-db02.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB021-90a747fce17021c; Wed, 09 Apr 2008 11:32:00 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 11:32:00 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.199.145.206 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 35874-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.199.145.206 by webmail-me07.sysops.aol.com (64.12.88.199) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 09 Apr 2008 11:32:00 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA686DFCD73A1E-870-13F2@webmail-me07.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.4 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Kinds of trouble historical authors face X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=DLI1dcGNaZB8aAWV5mulMV-aA3l2UF9--NuYCaG6RkQ9JHiXNQ X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43491 I knew it!? You do have a talent in that regard.? But recently someone suggested to the editor of a journal that the works for that he would like to do an article about me and the editor nearly had a stroke and threw him out of the office.? So I kind of know what you mean. The price of fame, the price of fame. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: kpauljohnson To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 7:16 am Subject: Theos-World Kinds of trouble historical authors face --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Drpsionic@... wrote: > > Yes, it is good to have you back and we can't wait to see what kind of trouble this book will get you into. > > And yes, I'm having fun. Howdy Chuck, I'm hoping that the worst that can happen already has. One of my main sources, a lifelong resident of the area my grandparents left as children, a fellow who slogged with me through swamps looking for graves and shared his voluminous research files with me, got extremely hateful and rejecting after seeing an early draft, and demanded that his name be removed from the book. These things happen, people you feel kinship with turn against you because of your take on history, but this one was an extreme case. I recount it here because it has a certain resonance with my Theosophical experience. His first objection was that certain things might be true, but ought not to be told in books and that people in Bertie County will be furious when they see it in a book. He was one of my main sources for figuring out illegitimate births, but balked at being named in a book saying so-and-so was a bastard. Understood; he lives there and has to deal with the flack. Still, it really stung to be told that I had no right to write about my own family history because of the sensibilities of the people who still live in the place my grandparents left over a hundred years ago. Objection number two was that I gave any credence whatsoever to the research of Paul Heinegg, who demonstrates that the 19thc Free Mulatto population of eastern North Carolina was largely descended from 17thc African/European marriages in Virginia. He was willing to admit that we might be part Indian, but to even mention the possibility that we might be part African-- DO NOT PUT THAT IN A BOOK!!! Objection number three was that I used "other people's research" and had no right to do so. Example: Miriam told me that my gg grandfather John Hughes was the illegitimate son of Wiley Askew. She happened to have told me that on a yahoo group that I moderate, in response to a direct question from me. Nonetheless, Miriam owns that fact, this gentleman has the authority to tell me not to use it in my book, despite that fact that John Hughes and Wiley Askew are MY ancestors, not his or Miriam's. He lives there, he OWNS the facts about history that occurred there, and even though these facts are about my ancestors and not his, I have no right to write about them. Objection number four was that one of my subjects had already been written about very much and thus I was trespassing on previous authors (including himself, natch) who had written about him, if I tried to add anything to the discussion. To some extent I'm stating the implications of his remarks, but mostly they were outright statements. This is just one case, out of dozens of folks who are embracing the book (so far); but in light of my past experience I've been very worried about the power of one infuriated individual or two to stir up antagonism against me over historical issues. Ten years ago I swore off ever writing about religion again due to the risks involved. And soon thereafter jumped right into writing about race-- frying pans and fires come to mind! KPJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From anton_rozman@yahoo.com Wed Apr 09 12:51:45 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: anton_rozman@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 82417 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2008 19:51:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Apr 2008 19:51:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n41a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.135) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Apr 2008 19:51:42 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n41.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Apr 2008 19:51:42 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Apr 2008 19:51:42 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Apr 2008 19:51:42 -0000 Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 19:51:40 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.168.135 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 82.192.56.78 From: "Anton Rozman" Subject: For the people of Tibet X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=192242904; y=MJDFPID7RZ5fBe5n_xNa7PQxIzZXiLz2btb3Sj2LXyVcvLWB6wMq X-Yahoo-Profile: anton_rozman X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43492 http://www.for-the-people-of-tibet.net/ From jokelap@dnainternet.net Wed Apr 09 18:14:57 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: jokelap@dnainternet.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 89348 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2008 01:14:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Apr 2008 01:14:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.dnainternet.fi) (87.94.96.112) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Apr 2008 01:14:54 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (223-243.adsl.lpoy.dnainternet.fi [78.27.77.243]) by smtp2.dnainternet.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 764E7C84D for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 04:14:52 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <47FD6A0A.1060601@dnainternet.net> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 04:14:50 +0300 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 87.94.96.112 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Jokela Petri Subject: Propaganda of Presidential Election? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=281705993; y=XDfhtPQ-_3I0k3kd6hzPNN92BG18jf1oZjCGM7IR4kRxE5GoFul2 X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43493 Check the propaganda of presidential election and politics of Singaporean lodge on their website. I have nothing againts Radha or John, but I belive this is againts the international rules of TS. Though I am not sure. Read the title "Presidential Election" right after Radha´s article... http://www.singaporelodge.org/newsletter.htm From dzyan@online.de Wed Apr 09 22:30:29 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: dzyan@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 95956 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2008 05:30:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Apr 2008 05:30:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.174) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Apr 2008 05:30:26 -0000 X-Received: from captainp6d3981 (brln-4db9714f.pool.einsundeins.de [77.185.113.79]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu8) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0ML31I-1JjpMZ1zwj-00039z; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 07:30:19 +0200 Message-ID: <001a01c89acc$0cd2da10$152ca8c0@captainp6d3981> To: References: <47FD6A0A.1060601@dnainternet.net> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 07:30:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18A9MlPPg5y1E6d2Rq2QkQVLVAZp5PbqzNt1xI hr1f9eQSt/iJdpH/33I4GUyVZjNshUIMjg1UzyvKSJJPvxRW/g lAk5AmoaNZHkltoiSZC3bK8Zi6RS9cf X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.174 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World Propaganda of Presidential Election? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=302625737; y=cI_52PPyVSvdewboV0RcMxXlFC2FCH_sQyRsxfxaYKDDYCE17IE5Ml3i1g X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43494 I find it strange, that two pensioners are at choice. Do they hate people younger than 65?? Why not elect a president, who is in his/her/its fourties?? I have made the experience, among theosophists and worldy people as well, that people over 50 of age have a problem in realizing new situations. With women in leading positions I have made the experience, that they lack a vision for the needs of the future, they stick on old forms and fight against any spirit of change. OTOH, as a nation has a leader, which she deserves, so probably also the TS has a leader, which its deserves. Will the TS remain merely a museum of past forms or once again become a spiritual motor for a new form and a bright model for future and survival of the West? Where are the leaders which could lead? Are theosophists ready for a leader? FR ----- Original Message ----- From: Jokela Petri To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 3:14 AM Subject: Theos-World Propaganda of Presidential Election? Check the propaganda of presidential election and politics of Singaporean lodge on their website. I have nothing againts Radha or John, but I belive this is againts the international rules of TS. Though I am not sure. Read the title "Presidential Election" right after Radha´s article... http://www.singaporelodge.org/newsletter.htm From Drpsionic@aol.com Wed Apr 09 23:54:07 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 66341 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2008 06:54:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Apr 2008 06:54:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m21.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.2) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Apr 2008 06:54:04 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.cc6.2bb326eb (37144) for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 02:53:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from FWM-D28 (fwm-d28.webmail.aol.com [205.188.162.4]) by cia-ma03.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMA036-911847fdb986389; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 02:53:58 -0400 References: <47FD6A0A.1060601@dnainternet.net> <001a01c89acc$0cd2da10$152ca8c0@captainp6d3981> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 02:53:58 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.199.145.206 In-Reply-To: <001a01c89acc$0cd2da10$152ca8c0@captainp6d3981> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 35874-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.199.145.206 by FWM-D28.sysops.aol.com (205.188.162.4) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Thu, 10 Apr 2008 02:53:58 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA68EEC93D9014-C64-3F41@FWM-D28.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.2 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Propaganda of Presidential Election? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=lV2pqUgIl-ug0QxhQZOiYWGYNdM6Rcd6CVe3zxZJbEsaoWx2mQ X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43495 What would we possibly need a leader for.=C2=A0 It's not like we need to go= anywhere. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano=20 -----Original Message----- From: Frank Reitemeyer To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:30 am Subject: Re: Theos-World Propaganda of Presidential Election? I find it strange, that two pensioners are at choice. Do they hate people younger than 65?? Why not elect a president, who is in his/her/its fourties?? I have made the experience, among theosophists and worldy people as well,=20 that people over 50 of age have a problem in realizing new situations. With women in leading positions I have made the experience, that they lack = a=20 vision for the needs of the future, they stick on old forms and fight=20 against any spirit of change. OTOH, as a nation has a leader, which she deserves, so probably also the TS= =20 has a leader, which its deserves. Will the TS remain merely a museum of past forms or once again become a=20 spiritual motor for a new form and a bright model for future and survival o= f=20 the West? Where are the leaders which could lead? Are theosophists ready for a leader? FR ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jokela Petri To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 3:14 AM Subject: Theos-World Propaganda of Presidential Election? Check the propaganda of presidential election and politics of Singaporean lodge on their website. I have nothing againts Radha or John, but I belive this is againts the international rules of TS. Though I am not sure. Read the title "Presidential Election" right after Radha=C2=B4s article... http://www.singaporelodge.org/newsletter.htm =20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dzyan@online.de Thu Apr 10 03:21:24 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: dzyan@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 295 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2008 10:21:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Apr 2008 10:21:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.171) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Apr 2008 10:21:21 -0000 X-Received: from captainp6d3981 (brln-4db9714f.pool.einsundeins.de [77.185.113.79]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu5) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0ML25U-1JjtuC2vat-0001gp; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:21:21 +0200 Message-ID: <005c01c89af4$b4a948f0$152ca8c0@captainp6d3981> To: References: <47FD6A0A.1060601@dnainternet.net> <001a01c89acc$0cd2da10$152ca8c0@captainp6d3981> <8CA68EEC93D9014-C64-3F41@FWM-D28.sysops.aol.com> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:21:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX185md88lmBBW6fPRueZvRG8rjXXHg9G4pJzPQM mvrBsuPNsthNE59tLr4GG0twfEUvXgU5079CbG8Iz6jUaNo+Fb gt/GmRD8hylnblHvTzVYvUnojy//4gE X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.171 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World Propaganda of Presidential Election? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=302625737; y=c9Gsswq6fb3sePk8T7CywRrn9k_aa7O9HLDqrvu-IpvcCmKTMlu0D1Srdw X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43496 reminds me of one leading theosophist in my country, who explained to me, that we have no more any theosophical work to do, because all the theosophical work which must be done for the Aquarian age, was already done by HPB! She has done it ALL, nothing is left out!! Gosh! I was amazed! Frank the narrow-minded ----- Original Message ----- From: Drpsionic@aol.com To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 8:53 AM Subject: Re: Theos-World Propaganda of Presidential Election? What would we possibly need a leader for. It's not like we need to go anywhere. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: Frank Reitemeyer To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:30 am Subject: Re: Theos-World Propaganda of Presidential Election? I find it strange, that two pensioners are at choice. Do they hate people younger than 65?? Why not elect a president, who is in his/her/its fourties?? I have made the experience, among theosophists and worldy people as well, that people over 50 of age have a problem in realizing new situations. With women in leading positions I have made the experience, that they lack a vision for the needs of the future, they stick on old forms and fight against any spirit of change. OTOH, as a nation has a leader, which she deserves, so probably also the TS has a leader, which its deserves. Will the TS remain merely a museum of past forms or once again become a spiritual motor for a new form and a bright model for future and survival of the West? Where are the leaders which could lead? Are theosophists ready for a leader? FR ----- Original Message ----- From: Jokela Petri To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 3:14 AM Subject: Theos-World Propaganda of Presidential Election? Check the propaganda of presidential election and politics of Singaporean lodge on their website. I have nothing againts Radha or John, but I belive this is againts the international rules of TS. Though I am not sure. Read the title "Presidential Election" right after Radha´s article... http://www.singaporelodge.org/newsletter.htm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Mvandertak@yahoo.com Thu Apr 10 07:32:46 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Mvandertak@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 92965 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2008 14:32:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Apr 2008 14:32:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n20a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.49) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Apr 2008 14:32:44 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n20.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Apr 2008 14:32:41 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.48] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Apr 2008 14:32:41 -0000 Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 14:32:40 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.49 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 212.127.190.196 From: "Martin" Subject: Will a Mahatma be chipped as well, when the day is there? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=38276385; y=FiNsJJ2ZL7VNEC06DMbZt7_V1DqSRbwsO1j0UkPvDBzeUBA6iQ X-Yahoo-Profile: mvandertak X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43497 Check this out: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html? in_article_id=3D558597&in_page_id=3D1770 Or even worse, a chipped Budha... From AnandGholap@gmail.com Fri Apr 11 08:08:55 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: anandgholap@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 22785 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2008 15:08:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Apr 2008 15:08:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO fk-out-0910.google.com) (209.85.128.186) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Apr 2008 15:08:50 -0000 X-Received: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 19so623932fkr.5 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 2008 08:08:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.82.105.1 with SMTP id d1mr4420126buc.28.1207926526622; Fri, 11 Apr 2008 08:08:46 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: X-Received: from 13c18q9decf9 ( [123.236.160.65]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id i8sm4262186nfh.1.2008.04.11.08.08.22 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 11 Apr 2008 08:08:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003201c89be5$e7307db0$41a0ec7b@13c18q9decf9> To: "Anand Gholap" Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 20:38:16 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Originating-IP: 209.85.128.186 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:5:0:0:0 From: "ANAND GHOLAP" Subject: Link with Masters (AnandGholap.Net-Online Theosophy) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=237603923; y=GyhhO2eFmMaPy-YVU0mneVsDl20Nf9hjjNTIoxB0BdNSClTV-f-ezeQ X-Yahoo-Profile: supreme_1l Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43498 http://www.AnandGholap.net/Theosophy_Pamphlet-Anand_Gholap.pdf - Important pamphlet for studying and spreading Theosophy] "We may then set before ourselves as a goal the privilege of being chosen to serve Them in this wonderful work for the world which lies before Them. There will be ample opportunity for the display of all possible varieties of talent, for the work will be of the most varied character. Some of us will no doubt be attracted to one side of it and some to the other, largely according to the predominance of our affection for one or other of its great Leaders. It has often been said that the characteristic of one is power, and of the other love and compassion, and this is perfectly true, though, if it is not rightly understood, it may very easily prove misleading. One of the Masters concerned has been a ruler in many incarnations, and was so even in the earlier part of this one, and unquestionably royal power shows forth in His every gesture and in the very look of His eyes, just as surely as the face of His brother adept beams ever with overflowing love and compassion. They are of different rays or types, having risen to Their present level along different lines, and this fact cannot but show itself; yet we should mistake sadly if we thought of the first as in any degree less loving and compassionate than His brother, or of the second as lacking anything of the power possessed by the first. Other Masters also will be engaged in this work, and it may well be that some of us may have made our link through one of Them." Complete book can be read at http://www.anandgholap.net/Inner_Life_Vol_I-CWL.htm In Christ. Anand Gholap [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From leonmaurer@aol.com Sat Apr 12 18:52:14 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 44342 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2008 01:52:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Apr 2008 01:52:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Apr 2008 01:52:10 -0000 X-Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c38.2bd39f0f (37096) for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2008 21:52:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from [66.229.64.15] (c-66-229-64-15.hsd1.fl.comcast.net [66.229.64.15]) by cia-db07.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB076-90e84801673f3db; Sat, 12 Apr 2008 21:52:00 -0400 In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753) Message-Id: Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 21:51:57 -0400 To: MindBrain@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753) X-AOL-IP: 66.229.64.15 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.139.136 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: Leon Maurer Subject: Re: [Mind and Brain] Einstein's Singularity X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972; y=6PFnx2JonXYdJMRQpOcwiEkqexXuh8uDAjlnU1Pq9dEMU3czzjc X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43499 On Apr 11, 2008, at 4/11/081:07 PM, John Clem wrote: > Leon, > > Apparently your concept of Einstein's singularity is integral to your > ABC theory of consciousness/mind/brain as you explain below. > Therefore it is within the scope of this group to respond with the > very interesting history of Einstein's singularity. > > The entire history of the singularity may be found at > http://www.physicstoday.org/vol-58/iss-9/p43.html > The long and short of it is that this singularity is tied to > Einstein's claim that gravitational waves do not exist. Einstein and > Rosen could not derive a plane gravitational wave without also > getting a singularity; and so they concluded that gravitational waves > could not exist because singularities cannot exist in nature. > > Here is the crucial excerpt. But read through the linked article for > the entire history. Clem > > > "What originally led Einstein to the conclusion that gravitational > waves do not exist? Having set out to find an exact solution for > plane gravitational waves, he and Rosen found themselves unable to do > so without introducing singularities into the components of the > metric that describes the waves. This was surely not at all what they > had hoped for. But, like good physicists confronted with the > unexpected, they attempted to turn it to their advantage. In fact, > they felt they could show that no regular periodic wavelike solutions > to the equations were possible. Instead of a solution to the Einstein > equations, they had a nonexistence proof for solutions representing > gravitational waves=D1 a far more important and breathtaking result." > > "Today it is well known that one cannot construct a single coordinate > system to describe plane gravitational waves without encountering a > singularity somewhere in spacetime. But it is also understood that > such a singularity is merely apparent and not real. It is a > coordinate singularity, analogous to the problem one encounters when > attempting to find the longitude of the North Pole. Einstein was one > of the first to understand the critical difference between coordinate > and physical singularities, but in the 1930s there was still no > mathematical formalism for distinguishing between the two. It was > something that had to be worked out by trial and, frequently, error. > Only after World War II did the identification of singularities > become rigorous. In 1936 Einstein and Rosen were too cautious, > treating a harmless coordinate effect as a real physical pathology. > It simply did not occur to them that trying to cover the whole of > their spacetime with a single coordinate system was asking too much." LM: I have no argument with this... So long as the mathematics=20=20 applies solely to the physical metric spacetime based on the non=20=20 Euclidian coordinate geometry of relativity theory. But, the ABC hypothesis (based on the assumption that if the metric=20=20 universe is a hologram, then its fundamental geometry must be=20=20 fractal) rests on a completely different geometry (than conventional=20=20 physics) -- whose origin would have to be a true *singularity*=20=20 consisting of non metric (nonlinear) infinite spin momentum of an=20=20 intangible and immeasurable absolute space or "aether" (as defined by=20=20 Einstein) that is empty of all objective form. IOW this eternal=20=20 unchangeable, immovable and insubstantial primal substance, as the=20=20 noumena of all phenomena, would have to be infinitely energetic,=20=20 located everywhere, as well as *potentially* both subjectively=20=20 conscious and objectively energetic-substantial (between zero and=20=20 infinity) when manifestly expressed. The only known mathematics that might apply in describing this source=20=20 is Cantor's infinite set theory, and the only fundamental equation=20=20 would necessarily have to be 0 =3D =B0. =20=20=20=20 Therefore, the rules of ordinary single or cylindrical coordinate=20=20 mathematics would not apply to the *singularity* of that absolute=20=20 Space... But, only to the subsequent ubiquitous fractally involved=20=20 ZPE fields that surround the apparently individualized *finite* zero-=20 points located at the G-force crossover tangency points (twistors or=20=20 wormholes) between adjacent inner fractal fields and their mother=20=20 field, that descend in infinite triune fractal iterations in dual=20=20 parallel octaval series (analogous to the initial triune cosmic monad=20=20 and its 12 inner fields as pictured in my ABC diagrams). Since I can visualize this in multidimensional graphic animation, and=20=20 describe it by 2-D and 3-D cross-sectional diagrams... Except for the=20=20 electrodynamics and QCD related to the *physical* space time=20=20 continuum -- there is no need for any mathematical equations in my=20=20 explanations... Just like Einstein was able to explain relativity=20=20 theory in word-pictures, without use of any mathematics, and Greene=20=20 was able to explain string physics. However -- since the finite ZPE source "singularities" of material=20=20 physics, and the 0=3D=B0 singularity of ABC theory are two different=20=20 things altogether -- the apparently *finite physical* singularities=20=20 at the root of ZPE, black holes, stars, galaxies, etc., can all be=20=20 described (for the benefit of physicists who can only see the=20=20 structure and dynamics of the universe symbolically:-) by string=20=20 theory mathematics and twistor geometry coupled with supersymmetry=20=20 and gauge theories, such as suggested by Penrose, Witten, Hodges, et=20=20 al. . In the meantime, my main interest is in understandably explaining the=20=20 ABC theory to ordinary people -- while, at the same time, hoping to=20=20 interest professional scientists, of every discipline, into accepting=20=20 its geometric topological framework, and cloaking it with a=20=20 scientific mathematics (and hopefully, experimental proofs) that can=20=20 verify its reality, and pass peer review for publication in=20=20 professional scientific journals as well as popular science magazines=20=20 and newspapers ... The purpose being to ultimately convince the=20=20 entire world, that everything and everyone is linked together in=20=20 mutual interdependence, through the ubiquitous universal=20=20 consciousness... And that the overall condition of the world, its=20=20 culture, economics and ecology, is everyone's individual=20=20 responsibility... Working together in harmoniously balanced mutual=20=20 cooperation and altruism -- rather than disharmoniously separate and=20=20 disruptive competition and greed, or with passive belief that an ex-=20 cosmic God-creator guides and controls our individual and common=20=20 destiny. Accordingly, I think that this should be the motivating goal of all=20=20 *true* scientists -- who understand that science and philosophy must=20=20 eventually be merged and inseparably linked, as the total source of=20=20 universal knowledge and understanding of Mankind's place and purpose=20=20 in the universe. I think that the integrated study of subjective=20=20 consciousness and its informational linkage with objective mind-=20 memory, brain, body, senses, etc. -- from a philosophically=20=20 scientific, physically integrated psychological basis -- will go a=20=20 long way toward achieving such aims. So let's keep our minds open to all ideas, regardless of whether or=20=20 not they contradict the assumptions, beliefs, or prejudices of=20=20 conventional science or established religions (of all disciplines and/=20 or theologies). Best wishes, Leon Maurer > > > > > > --- In MindBrain@yahoogroups.com, Leon Maurer wrote: >> >> Clem, >> >> What it sounds like and is, are not quite the same. >> >> In my interpretation of Einstein's "singularity" -- he meant a non >> phenomenal individual, intangible, non metric substance underlying, >> generating and supporting the phenomenal beginning of the spacetime >> continuum -- that contained all the potential mass-energy of the >> resultant universe... And, which could be considered as an apparent >> BEC, or condensation of EVERYTHING -- acting uniquely and >> ubiquitously as if it were ONE THING... Whether spread out in >> infinitely circumferential, fractally involved fields within fields >> within fields, or concentrated everywhere in singular non metric or >> zero-points within the metric spacetime continuum... Thus, allowing >> every fundamental quantum particle, to have its own individual point >> sourced spin momentum wave function origin. (Remembering that the >> exact mathematical center of the spinergy source of ZPE is the >> immaterial zero-point Aether itself.) Incidentally, this fractal >> involvement of all radiant fields in conjunction with the ubiquitous >> cyclic zero-point spin momentum, is the fundamental basis of all the >> laws of harmonics, holographic information storage and transmission, >> and electrodynamics that underly all physical forms of potentially >> conscious matter-energy. >> >> So, if we look for "megaspace" in metric spacetime, the only thing it >> can be is the intangible Aether located at every mathematical zero- >> point within that "total non metric and metric physical space". >> Thus, these adjacent or coadunate mathematical zero-points are >> physical parts of all linear, planar, and solid forms within all >> fractal involved fields of both hyperspacetime, configuration >> spacetime, and all fundamental particle-wave forms... All, >> originating radially from a singular zero-point source grounded in >> the ubiquitous Aether or total space itself. >> >> It follows that all absolute distance of linear motion in any >> relative spatial manifold or matrix is measured (using that spatial >> metric) between its absolute zero-points of start and finish -- or >> between one non local zero-point of Aether and another. >> >> Thus, all spherical fields are composed of opposite (polar) radial or >> centrifugally generated 1 dimensional linear rays of G-force, or >> fundamental spin-momentum, that originate from an absolute zero- >> point singularity... And weave -- in a continually repeating=20=20 >> series of >> spiral vortex mobius Klein circles (like figure eights inside >> inwardly descending circles) -- a harmonic series of triune, >> fractally involved inner fields (like bubbles within bubbles within >> bubbles, etc.)... All, continuously and globally interconnected >> through their zero-points of tangency and origins... with the >> beginning and ending of all force lines being the contiguously >> singular Aether. >> >> This can account for all the multiple dimensions of "hyperspace," or >> so called "compacted space" in string, supersymmetry, M theories, >> etc. ... And can, by extrapolation, easily explain entanglement or >> action at a distance... While allowing expression of all aspects of >> conscious perception and willful response to sensory information >> processed electrochemically by the brain's complex neurology into >> modulated electromagnetic wave interference patterns, transmitted >> to (and stored in) higher order, longer lasting hyperspace mind and >> memory fields by means of phase conjugate adaptive resonance >> processes... To be directly detected, perceived by zero-point Aether >> centered consciousness by simply, willful projection and reflection >> of higher order coherent radiation -- to which all lower order >> material substance, such as brain body meat and bone, is >> completely transparent. ;-) >> >> Leon >> http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/23/13 >> >> On Apr 10, 2008, at 4/10/0811:21 AM, yanniru@... wrote: >> >>> Leon, >>> >>> It sounds much more >>> like a BEC than a singularity. >>> Singularities refer to points in space. >>> Granted BECs have pretty much the same properties >>> well not exactly since the properties of a singularity are at a=20=20 >>> point >>> whereas BECs are spread out in space- in this case all megaspace. >>> Clem >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: michael haaheim >>> To: MindBrain@yahoogroups.com >>> Sent: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 3:54 am >>> Subject: Re: [Mind and Brain] Rencontr=8Es de Moriand >>> >>> I think we have a common ground here, despite other differences >>> (unless I am becoming confused with who is who) concerning my >>> tentative support for CL's hypothesis. I would like to go into this >>> more, when I have some time. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ---- >>> From: Leon Maurer >>> To: MindBrain@yahoogroups.com >>> Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 6:13:44 AM >>> Subject: Re: [Mind and Brain] Rencontr=8Es de Moriand >>> >>> Clem, >>> The higher >>> gravitational space that >>> surrounds and pervades our universe, >>> being ubiquitous, indivisible and not separable into >>> individual parts, is *one thing*, interconnected everywhere with=20=20 >>> itself. >>> >>> Therefore it is, in itself an "absolute singularity, " that is=20=20 >>> empty of all >>> form, but infinitely energetic and also infinitely extensible >>> and flexible, like Einstein's Aether, and >>> Nagarjuna's Buddha- mind; >>> Shunyata. >>> Len >>> >>> >>> On Apr 9, 2008, at 4/9/088:14 AM, yanniru@aim. com wrote: >>>> Michael, >>>> There is an alternative- >>>> something has always existed, >>>> which is the basis of my cosmology. >>>> So no need for something out of nothing. >>>> There is no need for an absolute singularity. >>>> >>>> But infinity still exists in time and space; >>>> and the higher gravitational space that >>>> surrounds and pervades our universe >>>> may operate as one, at once; >>>> non-local instantaneous >>>> action at a distance: >>>> Newton's gravity >>>> Clem >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: michael haaheim >>>> To: MindBrain@yahoogrou ps.com >>>> Sent: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 5:05 am >>>> Subject: Re: [Mind and Brain] Rencontr=8Es de Moriand >>>> >>>> I will concede that the extra dimensions are non varifiable (non >>>> testable). The 32 dimensions might adequately explain all of our >>>> subjective observations. .. however, this does not mean that the >>>> other dimensions are not there. >>>> >>>> My reasoning for stating that there are in fact an infinite >>>> number of dimensions has to do with the logical conclusion of a >>>> hypothetical concept of the cosmos as an absolute singularity, and >>>> the mechanism/condition set that I argue as the only one that >>>> would satisfy the creation of everything from "nothing". Sorry, I >>>> don't have time to go into further detail. Anyway, you would be >>>> correct in the argument that it is inherently unscientific (as a >>>> whole... it can still have aspects tested for scientific >>>> consistency) . >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ---- >>>> From: "yanniru@aim. com" >>>> To: MindBrain@yahoogrou ps.com >>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2008 4:12:55 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [Mind and Brain] Rencontr=8Es de Moriand >>>> >>>> >>>> There may be an infinite amout of dimensions in semantics or even >>>> philosophy. But in physics there is at most 32 dimensions=20=20 >>>> according to Paul Bird >>>> http://arxiv. org/PS_cache/ physics/pdf/ 0604/0604225v1. pdf >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: michael haaheim >>>> To: MindBrain@yahoogrou ps.com >>>> Sent: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 4:40 am >>>> Subject: Re: [Mind and Brain] Rencontr=8Es de Moriand >>>> >>>> You are both wrong. There are actually an infinite number of >>>> dimensions.. . it is only a matter of which ones are relevent to >>>> our observations of the perceived universe. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ---- >>>> From: "yanniru@aim. com" >>>> To: MindBrain@yahoogrou ps.com >>>> Sent: Monday, April 7, 2008 1:48:32 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [Mind and Brain] Rencontr=8Es de Moriand >>>> >>>> BB, You are just pissed at me >>>> because I have shown you >>>> and the world that your 12d theory >>>> is just a subset of my 26d cosmology >>>> I do not blame you >>>> Clem and everybody else. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: barron.burrow >>>> To: A Group MindBrain >>>> Cc: barron.burrow >>>> Sent: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 9:43 pm >>>> Subject: [Mind and Brain] Rencontr=8Es de Moriand >>>> >>>> --- In MindBrain@yahoogrou ps.com, yanniru@ wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> BB, I own a farm. Would you like to bet? >>>>> yanniru >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> Yes. I would. >>>> >>>> I am certain there isn't a chance that the LHC at CERN will find >>>> the Higgs boson. Ever. >>>> >>>> I know that the 12-D psychophysical theory is the solution to the >>>> hard problem now -- not because of what I've said re: the Higgs >>>> mechanism, but something else, which there is neither the time nor >>>> space to go into at present. >>>> >>>> Since I still have the best notices on the Web, as far as I am >>>> aware, I probably do know what I am talking about. As I say on my >>>> site: >>>> "The commendations below are from academics in a number of >>>> countries, and in a variety of different fields -- including >>>> medicine, psychology, psychoanalysis, modern physics, computer >>>> science/programming , biotech, IT (telecommunication networks, >>>> computer hardware), artificial intelligence, quantum computing, >>>> cognitive anthropology, philology, and semiotics" >>>> >>>> -- and some of these notices are from distinguished people,=20=20 >>>> including Prof Alwyn Scott, Founding Director of the Center for >>>> Nonlinear Studies at the Los Alamos National Laboratory. As "a >>>> sometime neuroscientist" Scott is also the author of Neuroscience >>>> (1977), Stairway to the Mind: the Controversial Science of >>>> Consciousness (Springer-Verlag, 1995), co-Editor (with Professor >>>> Stuart Hameroff) of Tucson II: Towards a Science of Consciousness >>>> (Springer-Verlag, 1996); as well as many papers in the field of >>>> neurophysiology over a period of two decades. >>>> . http://homepage. ntlworld. com/barron. burrow/ >>>> >>>> You said that you'd been to a lecture by Brian Greene at Harvard, >>>> and he'd spoken of thirteen dimensions -- whilst no one but >>>> myself, according to you, had ever argued for twelve dimensions. >>>> >>>> However, when I posted to this list a paper by the famous >>>> physicist Quamran Vafa that went into detail hypothesising >>>> precisely twelve dimensions, you never replied. >>>> >>>> I also pointed you in the direction of the twelve dimensional >>>> theories of the inventor of the Bell helicopter, Arthur M. Young, >>>> as well as that of Professor DG Leahy (a mathematical physicist >>>> at Fermilab, J Iuliano, whose work is highly praised on Leahy's=20=20 >>>> site, >>>> has given the greatest possible support to my own model ever since >>>> 1999). >>>> >>>> You get things badly in a muddle, Dick, mostly because you're an >>>> attention-seeker. For instance, now that you've suddenly begun to >>>> champion neurons, you've already forgotten that just a few months >>>> ago you were heaping ecstatic praise on Pereira's paper on >>>> astrocytes (the glial cells in the synapses *between* neurons). If >>>> you check out the archive, you'll find a post of mine that makes >>>> some profound remarks about the bottom-up input of glia to neurons >>>> (via the spinal column). >>>> >>>> You tend to put things together in a higgledy-piggledy fashion, >>>> Dick -- or is it currently John Lincoln Clem, formerly John Joseph >>>> Klem, formerly Crapopolous (or whatever your ex-wife got you to >>>> call yourself), formerly Richard David Pesach ben Avraham Ruquist? >>>> -- because, as I've said before, you lack the full shilling.=20=20 >>>> However, since you're a great one for Reincarnation, maybe you'll >>>> fare better next time around. >>>> >>>> If you make it, though, it'll be without the farm :-) >>>> >>>> >>>> BEB. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: barron.burrow >>>>> To: A Group MindBrain ; >>>>> JerryIuliano@ ... >>>>> Cc: barron.burrow >>>>> Sent: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 4:20 pm >>>>> Subject: [Mind and Brain] Rencontr=CC=A9s de Moriand >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- In MindBrain@yahoogrou ps.com, Andrew Beckwith >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> =E5 =E5 =E5 >>>>>> =E5 =E5 I go to a lot of cosmology conferences. The latest >>>>>> =E5 =E5 Reconitres De Moriond, 2008 in cosmology. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> =E5 >>>>> >>>>> =E5 >>>>> >>>>> BEB writes: I hear that the new Large Hadron Collider at CERN >>>> (which I guess is what you're referring to re: Rencontr=CC=A9s de >>>> Moriand) should be up and running in May.=E5 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The Sunday Times says: "The real goal of the grid is=E5 to work >>>> with the LHC in tracking down nature=89=DB=AAs most elusive particle, >>>> the Higgs boson. Predicted in theory but never yet found, the >>>> Higgs is supposed to be what gives matter mass". >>>>> >>>>> I'd bet the farm, you know,=E5 that the Higgs boson will never be >>>> revealed by the LHC. The reason is that, according to my twelve- >>>> dimensional psychophysical theory,=E5 the Higgs mechanism is >>>> coterminous with wavefunction collapse by the "observer" -- and it >>>> is this that creates time-irreversibilit y and so mass (i.e. a la >>>> Penrose's theory). >>>>> >>>>> In other words, consciousness emanates from 0 (in the "observer" >>>> mode of the psychophysical seventh-dimension via the Higgs boson) >>>> and collapes the wavefunction on strings (in the opposite first- >>>> dimension) . Interestingly the Higgs is a spin 0 particle (that >>>> can be imagined as a sphere which looks the same=E5 no matter what >>>> direction it is turned in). The idea is that it would be the said >>>> wavefunction collapse=E5 that creates the group SU(2) isomorphic to >>>> the group of quaternions of absolute value 1=E5 (quaternions being a >>>> key component in a 12-D torus). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Seen from its own standpoint, then, it is this 1 that becomes >>>> the 100% quantum of action in the psychophysical first-dimension. >>>>> >>>>> I mention all this because your being on the Mind-Brain=E5 list >>>> suggests you're interested in marrying cosmology and >>>> consciousness. (And I imagine it's still not occurred to many >>>> mathematical physicists=E5 that the fact that number cannot be >>>> found anywhere in the universe or in the mind-brain points to it >>>> probably existing at the *psycho-physical* interface between >>>> energy and matter. IOW: we can interact with number precisely >>>> because, like number,=E5 we too possess psychophysical Being and >>>> Becoming. >>>>> >>>>> Ask me another ;-) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> BEB. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Sun Apr 13 09:49:47 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 47430 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2008 16:49:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Apr 2008 16:49:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mx05.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.25) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Apr 2008 16:49:43 -0000 X-Received: from 56341115.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.17.21] helo=khidr) by mx05.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1Jl5Od-00043w-0z for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 13 Apr 2008 18:49:39 +0200 Message-ID: <000801c89d86$6885b230$15113456@khidr> To: Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 18:49:58 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.25 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" Subject: Theosophical thought, Experience and Teaching X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=7vdp974JizyFDs7meoH123U_EWQmH5JyrAch3esRvg3e X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43500 To all readers My views are: Theosophical thought, Experience and Teaching The following could be called an interpretation of theosophy and theosophical writings and it intends to show, where some of the problems with Theosophy and its related branches are today at the beginning of the 21th century. Thousands of books and monographs have been written on theosophy and the theosophists, almost all of them from the point of view of other ways of thinking. The result has been chaos in the litterature, and confusion in the reader. Over the centuries, some of the world's most eminent scholars have fallen into the trap of trying to examine assess or consider the theosophy phenomenon through a set of culture-bound preconceptions. All this may not be as foolish as it looks to us today: after all, it is only relatively recently that students, including academics and people of the spirit, have begun to realise that their attitudes have traditionally been heavily influenced by subjectivity and unexanined assumptions. Although the pendulum is slowly swinging back, there is still no lack of people - specialists and others - who continue to look at anything, including theosophy and The Wisdom Tradition, in anything but an objective way. The main problem is that the most commentators are accustomed to thinking of spiritual schools as 'systems', which are more or less alike, and which depend upon dogma and ritual: and especially upon repetition and the application of continual and standardised pressures upon their followers. The theosophical path, except in degenerate forms which are not to be classified as theosophical, is entirely different from this. Following closely after the primary misconception is the general impression that all spiritual entities must strongly depend upon emotion. Indeed, there is a marked confusion, even in the most lucid writers, between spirituality and emotionalism. Such confusion does not exist in authentic theosophical teaching or study. The misconsecptions of which the above two are typical produce in the students a frame of mind through which he or she will try to approach the understanding or study of theosophy, with predictably useless results. For this reason high quality theosophical literature shows a marked rejection of ultra-formalism, of mental fetishes, the over-simplifications, which hamper understanding. The theosophists refer to the action of the mixture of primitive emotionality and irrelevant associations, which bedevil outside would-be observers as that of the Lower Self. It is only since the nineteen-fifties, with the discovery of the far-reaching effects of conditioning, brain-washing and attitude- engineering, that the subjective nature of virtually all approaches to knowledge has been perceived to the degree to which the theosophists, for centuries has tried to establish. The theosophists have always taught: 'Examine your assumptions; avoid mechanicality; distinguish faith from fixation'. The theosophical Teacher, in the first place, has to be someone who has experienced all the stages of the Path along which he will conduct his disciples. Outward observers are not capeable of commenting upon theosophy or The Wisdom Tradition. They lack both the experience and the capacity to discriminate between real and degenerate forms. 'Who tastes, knows' is a theosophical saying. Equally, whoever does not taste, does not know. The validity of this concept is, naturally enough, strenously opposed by outward observers. But if, in any field, an unqualified person, lacking essential experience, decides to 'become an expert', it is inevitable that the specialist, the person with the experience, will - indeed must - assert the primacy of proper knowledge. It has to be remembered here that the externalists (whether people of the spirit or of the pen and tounge) are themselves not particularly to blame. Reared on the concept that anyone can, at will, examine anything, they are victims of their own culture's assumptions. After all, this approach is adequate for a large number of disciplines. They have merely apllied a principle which holds good in one area to a subject where it does not. The theosophist unlike the externalist, cannot, and does not, work mechanically. The projection of the message and the help which is given to the learner, must always vary in conformity with the needs of the time, the culture involved and the nature and potential of the student. But as soon as we say this, we can see that the real theosophical organisation teaching and learning differ fundamentally from all other 'systems'. The theosophist, in short, is aiming for a development, not to produce conditioned reflexes. He or she is teaching, not training. He or she intervenes, to provide the right stimulus at the right time for the right person. Such an activity is seen as chaotic by those who cannot perceive its purposefulness; just as the way of life in some open societies feels unbearably disorderly to those who have escaped from regimented ones: something which frequently happens today. The tendency to seek reassurance and regularity is common to all human beings. This is reflected in their cleaving to oversimplified systems. It explains why many people are drawn to organisations which offer authority and certainty. There is nothing wrong with order and discipline: indeed, these are essentials to all human groupings. But the misuse of this proclivity in areas where it does not apply attentuates or delays progress. It results in the uncomfortable feeling, even amongst the most regimented, that 'there is something else.' And yet exposure to strong discipline does not itself produce as a reaction a necessarily wholesome affinity for truth. It is noticeable that coercive, regimented or rigorously intellectualist societies throw up weird cults and abborations, providing both the supply of and the demand for certain emotions. There is a vast accumulation of theosophical teachings, much of it in writings, which would-be students plough through, looking for theosophy (Wisdom of the Gods), and wondering why it seems, so often, self-contradictory. The simple answer is that this material is largely time-and-culture-based. Most of it was prescribed for specific audiences at certain times and under particular conditions. Choosing the relevant materials for any time is a specialised task. To try to make sense of all of it would be like taking a bundle of medical prescriptions, issued over the years to a variety of people, and working out one's own therapy from such largely irrelevant papers - and without a certain specialised knowledge. Theosophical Teaching is PRESCRIBED. Such parts of the theosophical Classics, stories, and letters and lectures and so on which apply to the individual and the group today - have to be selected and applied consciously and appropriately, by someone who is attuned to certain realities. This concept is especially irksome to the academic worker, who always has a bias towards utillising every scrap of information he can find, not towards assessing contemporary applicability. He is, in fact, in a different field from the theosophist. His attitude influences even general readers. If the scholar is unwilling to accept this concept, the conventional spiritual thinker is equally hampered. He, or she, does not wish to face the fact that theosophical activity is often carried out in a way which does not, for the conventionalist, resemble spiritual matters at all. The fact that the theosophist has to script and project his teaching in a manner which will work - not in a manner which will remind others of spirituality - arouses, if ever perceived, feelings of great discomfort in the conditional 'devout' man or woman. Yet the theosophist insists that the adherence to traditional forms is not a spiritual activity at all. It is only in recent years that he has been able to call upon the insights and experiments of the sociologists and psychologists to establish in current terminology, and hence in acceptable form, the fact that very many 'people of the spirit' are only religious in the sense that they have been conditioned to feel certain emotional responses. And that such people are, anthrologically speaking, little else than members of a tribe. These facts, written down and asserted centuries ago by theosophists, are now thought by modern thinkers to be a great new discovery. The supposedly devout are, in theosophical terms (as well as in the new understanding of contemporary workers in the social sciences) cultists but hardly people of the spirit in the theosophical sense. The use of authorithy figures, canonical litterature, liturgy, exercises, special clothes, and similarly standardised elements, are now plainly seen as ingredients in trainning systems which differ, one from the other, only in the ideas and symbols used. Yet, these factors linger and confuse, producing blinkered minds. The deluded 'Theosophists', down the centuries, are those who have taken temporary situations, parables and the like and strecthed them to apply as perennial 'truths', 'exercises' and the like. This kind of development, or hyperthrophy, has taken place in other projections than that known as theosophy. Indeed, it is this which is responsible for the existence of a large number of cults and religious bodies which are generally believed to be authentic and authoritathive. In, reality, the fossilization which is represented by such groups is the antithesis of a spiritual school. Instead of developing people, it imprisons them, as genuine theosophists have never tired of pointing out. So far has this process gone that, in most cultures, the imitation has all but driven out the original. The result is that, examining certain existing religious cults (some of them involving multiple millions of people and possesing great influence) nobody could be blamed for believeing this degenration to be religion itself. An fictious example: Recently, explaining this attitude to a famous spiritual leader, I received the answer; 'But it MUST be true: otherwise so many people would not believe it.' He had, clearly, not heard of Gresham's Law: 'Bad money drives good out.' I said, 'There are twice as many adherents of such-and-such a religion as there are of your own. By your logic THAT one must be true. Its success proves it. Why don't you join that one instead of your own?' It was at that point that he started shouting at me. Quality is more important than Quantity when we talk about theosophical members. It is important in this connection to note, that some theosophical groups have a high number of followers because they use a concept, which is attracting the emotional Seekers after Truth. One of their main ideas is to use a Messiah craze concept cheating the wellmeaning Seeker into merely believing, (and not at all knowing), that the reappearence of the Christ is only a few years away. This H. P. Blavatsky the co-founder of The Theosophical Society clearly spoke out against in her article "MODERN APOSTLES AND PSEUDO-MESSIAHS". To use common sense would be much better in an age where the number of publicly prnounced Messiah'ses are climbing just as rapidly as the number of Napoleon's and similar does in the local psychiatric hospitals closed sections. Among theosophists, the development of Theosophical Organisations gives us a conspicuous example of the process which I have been describing. Of many of the major 'Paths' among the supposed theosophists of today (generally speaking), not a single one or only very very few is traceable in its foundation to its founders teachings. Each of the 'artificial ones' came into being only after the founders death, formulated from some of his specific teachings employed for local purposes, and soon turned into a cult. The truth is, that 'Theosophical Organisations' are temporary and time-limited and always will be. None was started by its putative founder. When the teacher died, his disciples, heroically but misguidedly, tried to preserve his teachings. The result we know. All the distortions - and more - which have persisted in theosophy - and other - teachings are due to the presence and activity of the Lower Self. There is no intention of destroying or undermining the Lower Self. But the Theosophical activity and The Wisdom Tradition insists upon asking: does is command you, - or do you command it? M. Sufilight H. P. Blavatsky said: "The Society founded to remedy the glaring evils of Christianity, to shun bigotry and intolerance, cant and superstition and to cultivate real universal love extending even to the dumb brute". (The Collected Writings of H. P. Blavatsky, vol. 7, p.246) Master KH wrote in a Mahatma Letter: For the opposition represents enormous vested interests, and they have enthusiastic help from the Dugpas -- in Bhootan and the Vatican! (Here is all of Mahtama Letter, No. 55. Dugpas are the same as selfish Magicians.) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dzyan@online.de Sun Apr 13 09:56:53 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: dzyan@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 75699 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2008 16:56:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Apr 2008 16:56:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.183) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Apr 2008 16:56:51 -0000 X-Received: from captainp6d3981 (brln-4db951e2.pool.einsundeins.de [77.185.81.226]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu6) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0ML29c-1Jl5VS01oE-0008OO; Sun, 13 Apr 2008 18:56:43 +0200 Message-ID: <005001c89d87$73e0b070$152ca8c0@captainp6d3981> To: Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 18:56:35 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX187/YoseuKPu4/6Tkbn8TEGo/v3zj9T1ymV/bR UrxOxxd8x8WCtjvfrEFGQmzu09htmgx56EmFzl61oP2vDn6sgb kjukxdBbgtGCMJ2kVRzrdGm6ALGmmaC X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.183 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Video for Theft Day April 15 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=302625737; y=vU-OzH-cphsrOMQNnz8rtXA_dWBa2QgCOC50yz-KMOmmYduCesT4hyO0gA X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43501 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3QmJNZMBeg Tingley students may find it interesting to re-read what KT has published in her magazines on the FED system. Frank [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Mvandertak@yahoo.com Sun Apr 13 15:44:26 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mvandertak@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 46684 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2008 22:44:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Apr 2008 22:44:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52602.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.205) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Apr 2008 22:44:25 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 96648 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Apr 2008 22:44:25 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: TKessn4VM1mlgOe.xLopCReq3Pqr9dueFBgr9_k8_lcuiJi5.A6fArfT_3SnwqcnXmzc8zs4zjQNuX8Z6H2OlQ.wKohd0FHhZzx8qWpWVr5yXT5vgvrtDBWQ X-Received: from [82.217.39.103] by web52602.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 13 Apr 2008 15:44:24 PDT Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 15:44:24 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <005001c89d87$73e0b070$152ca8c0@captainp6d3981> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <967302.91684.qm@web52602.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.205 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Martin Subject: Re: Theos-World Video for Theft Day April 15 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=38276385; y=-wKpgtNsF0OX8Wu7uhgWm0p_6rLKy1gtaorfn2nv_R3Ha928XA X-Yahoo-Profile: mvandertak X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43502 Dear Frank, can you link us to some of KT's writings on this issue please? I now understand why Jesus got furious with the moneypeople, since he already forsaw it I bet :-) --- Frank Reitemeyer wrote: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3QmJNZMBeg > > Tingley students may find it interesting to re-read > what KT has published in her magazines on the FED > system. > Frank > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From semockr@hotmail.com Sun Apr 13 17:43:29 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: semockr@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 53479 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2008 00:43:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2008 00:43:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n16b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.122) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2008 00:43:26 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Apr 2008 00:43:23 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Apr 2008 00:43:23 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Apr 2008 00:43:23 -0000 Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 00:43:21 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.122 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 75.62.18.24 From: "Richard Semock" Subject: Re: For the people of Tibet X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=68064314; y=ELvzCamyn6FCtCau8YcRVjARrUMdCJpcxZTpQuNBVPxo0w X-Yahoo-Profile: semockr X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43503 I signed --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Anton Rozman" =20 wrote: > >=20 > http://www.for-the-people-of-tibet.net/ > From dzyan@online.de Mon Apr 14 12:23:22 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: dzyan@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 17005 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2008 19:23:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2008 19:23:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.171) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2008 19:23:19 -0000 X-Received: from captainp6d3981 (brln-4db90da0.pool.einsundeins.de [77.185.13.160]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu2) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MKwtQ-1JlUGp2PKV-0002IR; Mon, 14 Apr 2008 21:23:15 +0200 Message-ID: <27d201c89e65$17b0b000$152ca8c0@captainp6d3981> To: References: Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 21:23:57 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+YJHp7r4J7Nj671CQVTWbfxeM9rm4sbfamvZw kbPQ7s8zBL4suHmTNdznBzhqb90cKeD51JUa6aT94n2EsqR5ev Ny+7UEuFVsJvTwB4pEtrjfJLu6snaGm X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.171 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: For the people of Tibet X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=302625737; y=ARmtuuhzXYNG7J2mpWRNBzlX_WX97Rbtkk8bWSTdiBpHv0mK3KmeB-ehSw X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43504 http://www.stoptibetcrisis.net/breakingnews.html http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=7982410976871193492&q [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dzyan@online.de Mon Apr 14 12:23:22 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: dzyan@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60304 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2008 19:23:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Apr 2008 19:23:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.171) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Apr 2008 19:23:19 -0000 X-Received: from captainp6d3981 (brln-4db90da0.pool.einsundeins.de [77.185.13.160]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu2) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MKwtQ-1JlUGp0Uyq-0002IR; Mon, 14 Apr 2008 21:23:15 +0200 Message-ID: <27d101c89e65$17704ba0$152ca8c0@captainp6d3981> To: References: <967302.91684.qm@web52602.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 21:22:58 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19OPP2XJgzt/6Bgt04c5RYFPS6kOH4xiImUjcH /A6eTy3l1t4qN2DwygBAccnncw7uIAXSuB8Wzke7j91XOqIcAg AzNKixWFk977AsFZvPkjJCVtGLLAEh1 X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.171 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World Video for Theft Day April 15 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=302625737; y=lDLA20sLOFIHeiilYJRfw8Kj187eQkIkI2DPfel2zctB0064LwZcymH3eQ X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43505 Dear Martin, I am very busy right now, but here for example you find KT's support for Lindbergh's rejection of the illegal, anti-constitutionally FED coup in US Congress, The Theosophical Path, August 1927, p. 158. http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/ttp/ttp_v33n02.pdf There is much for to find in her outstanding magazine. I feel here the very, strong spirit of HPB. You should study the complete run of the magazine. It's a goldmine and shocking up-to-date! Best from Berlin Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: Martin To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 12:44 AM Subject: Re: Theos-World Video for Theft Day April 15 Dear Frank, can you link us to some of KT's writings on this issue please? I now understand why Jesus got furious with the moneypeople, since he already forsaw it I bet :-) --- Frank Reitemeyer wrote: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3QmJNZMBeg > > Tingley students may find it interesting to re-read > what KT has published in her magazines on the FED > system. > Frank > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] From semockr@hotmail.com Mon Apr 14 19:25:57 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: semockr@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 70640 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 02:25:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 02:25:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n16a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.121) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 02:25:54 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 02:25:54 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 02:25:54 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 02:25:54 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 02:25:54 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <107897.85488.qm@web52109.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.121 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 75.62.18.24 From: "Richard Semock" Subject: Theos-World Re: The US Constitution - A Midsummer Nights Dream X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=68064314; y=REAKDewT49-uqfldHMZbv2XeZ3diZVqqwooT33bZGnEW_A X-Yahoo-Profile: semockr X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43506 Its even less of the right thing to be doing today in a world that is=20 imbued with human rights, a movement that HPB played a big role in=20 starting and the USA of today represents. According to the Free Tibet websites posted earlier, world leaders=20 have it pegged right this time in demanding China step down, get out=20 of Tibet, and let the Dalai Lama who is the only rightful ruler of=20 that soverign country, resume leadership. The wheel of Karma has turned and will provide those of us who=20 exercise Right Action engendered by Right Thought with a ride out of=20 this Round and the devil will take the rest. --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva wrote: > > Doesn't make it the right thing to do Richard > Cass >=20 > Richard Semock wrote: > Speaking of casting stones, name one European or middle=20 eastern=20 > country that wasnt formed by grabbing the land from someone who was=20 > there first. They continued this pattern in the Americas until now=20 > everyone is a holier-than-thou bunch of reformed drunks chasing=20 after=20 > escaped Nazis, and an assortment of dictators who step across the=20 > line today. >=20 > Genghis Khan who hailed from central Asia was the greatest of the=20 > ethnic cleansers tho who it is said left heaps of bones across=20 > Europe. Where do you think the Europeans got the idea, right from=20 > your Chinese friends who are still doing it today to their own=20 people=20 > in the form of organ harvesting of the Falun Gong or to others such=20 > as the Tibetans and this is only the tip of the iceberg. >=20 > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva wrote: > > > > Richard, people in glass houses, should not throw stones as the=20 old=20 > saying goes. I am not an American and I am totally unfamiliar with=20 > your constitution, but I was referrring to Free Speech not the=20 > freedom of religious beliefs. The freedom of religious beliefs were=20 > made at a time when there was only two religions operating in the=20 > west, christianity and protestanism. Salem showed that religious=20 > beliefs were strictly christian beliefs. > >=20 > > For the record, I do not support China's actions in Tibet, as=20 > much as I do not support the horrors perpetrated by the christian=20 > settlers on the American Indians. But there is no hypocricy with=20 the=20 > Chinese, they do not hide behind a constitution that is constantly=20 > set up as the ideal and at the same time flagrantly crushes those=20 > ideals.=20 > >=20 > > Cass > > Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of=20 > religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging=20 the=20 > freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people=20 > peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress=20 > of grievances. > >=20 > > After World War I, several cases involving laws limiting speech=20 > came before the Supreme Court. The Espionage Act of 1917 imposed a=20 > maximum sentence of twenty years for anyone who caused or attempted=20 > to cause "insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty=20 in=20 > the military or naval forces of the United States." Under the Act,=20 > over two thousand prosecutions were commenced. For instance, one=20 > filmmaker was sentenced to ten years imprisonment because his=20 > portrayal of British soldiers in a movie about the American=20 > Revolution impugned the good faith of an American ally, the United=20 > Kingdom. The Sedition Act of 1918 went even further,=20 > criminalizing "disloyal," "scurrilous" or "abusive" language=20 against=20 > the government. > > in 1968, the Court upheld a law prohibiting the mutilation of=20 > draft cards in United States v. O'Brien 391 U.S. 367 (1968). The=20 > Court ruled that protesters could not burn draft cards because=20 doing=20 > so would interfere with the "smooth and efficient functioning" of=20 the=20 > draft system. Then again, in 1971, the court found that a person=20 > could not be punished for wearing, in the corridors of the Los=20 > Angeles county Courthouse, a jacket reading "Fuck the Draft," Cohen=20 > v. California (403 U.S. 15). > > In 1969, the Supreme Court ruled that free speech rights extended=20 > to students in school while deciding Tinker v. Des Moines=20 Independent=20 > Community School District, 393 U.S. 503 (1969). The case involved=20 > several students who were punished for wearing black arm-bands to=20 > protest the Vietnam War. The Supreme Court ruled that the school=20 > could not restrict symbolic speech that did not cause undue=20 > interruptions of school activities. Justice Abe Fortas=20 > wrote, "schools may not be enclaves of totalitarianism. School=20 > officials do not possess absolute authority over their students.=20 > Students...are possessed of fundamental rights which the State must=20 > respect, just as they themselves must respect their obligations to=20 > the State." The decision was arguably overruled, or at least=20 > undermined, by Bethel School District v. Fraser 478 U.S. 675=20 (1986),=20 > in which the Court held a student could be punished for his speech=20 > before a public assembly. > > Also in 1969, the Court decided the landmark Brandenburg v. Ohio,=20 > 395 U.S. 444 (1969) , which overruled Whitney v. California 274=20 U.S.=20 > 357 (1927), a case in which a woman was imprisoned for aiding the=20 > Communist Party. Brandenburg effectively swept away Dennis as well,=20 > casting the right to speak freely of violent action and revolution=20 in=20 > broad terms: "[Our] decisions have fashioned the principle that the=20 > constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press do not=20 permit=20 > a State to forbid or proscribe advocacy of the use of force or of=20 law=20 > violation except where such advocacy is directed to inciting or=20 > producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or=20 produce=20 > such action." Some claim that Brandenburg essentially sets forth a=20 > reworded "clear and present danger" test, but the accuracy of such=20 > statements is hard to judge. The Court has never heard or decided a=20 > case involving seditious speech since Brandenburg was handed down. > > The federal government and the states have long been permitted to=20 > restrict obscenity or pornography. While obscenity generally has no=20 > protection under the First Amendment, pornography is subject to=20 > little regulation. The exact definition of obscenity and=20 pornography,=20 > however, has changed over time. > > When it decided Rosen v. United States in 1896, the Supreme Court=20 > adopted the same obscenity standard as had been articulated in a=20 > famous British case, Regina v. Hicklin. The Hicklin standard=20 defined=20 > material as obscene if it tended "to deprave or corrupt those whose=20 > minds are open to such immoral influences, and into whose hands a=20 > publication of this sort may fall." In 1957, the Court ruled in=20 Roth=20 > v. United States that the Hicklin test was inappropriate. Instead,=20 > the Roth test for obscenity was "whether to the average person,=20 > applying contemporary community standards, the dominant theme of=20 the=20 > material, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest." > > In 1964 Justice Potter Stewart, in Jacobellis v. Ohio, famously=20 > stated that, although he could not precisely define pornography, "I=20 > know it when I see it." > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > Richard Semock wrote: > >=20 > > If you are refering to the 1st amendment right in the US=20 > > constitution, your proposal would be a poor test of it. It falls=20 > into=20 > > the class of endangering speech such as crying fire! in a crowded=20 > > ballet performance and would not be deemed a freedom.=20 > >=20 > > Now if you want to say something like this to the CCP potentates=20 in=20 > > Tibet, then that would be another matter entirely and one worthy=20 of=20 > > support. > >=20 > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva wrote: > > > > > > We can test the 'ideal' or notion of freedom of speech, by=20 > telling=20 > > a Judge or a Policemen to get f*****. > > > Cass > > >=20 > > > Drpsionic@ wrote: > > > It's an ideal that has the force of law behind it in the=20 > > US.? If an athlete is actually disciplined by the US Olympic=20 > > committee, he can probably sue for consipiracy to violate his=20 civil=20 > > rights and given the way the courts rule in such matters, collect=20 > > significant damages. > > >=20 > > > We upset the apple cart all the time around here. > > >=20 > > > Chuck the Heretic > > >=20 > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano=20 > > >=20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Cass Silva > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 7:08 pm > > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Are China facing the Law of Karma? > > >=20 > > > So much for freedom of speech eh! My mother told me years ago=20 > that=20 > > freedom of speech is just an ideal, it doesn't exist in the real=20 > > world. It's a nice idea but upset the apple cart and you will be=20 > > regarded as a bad apple and dealt with appropriately. The ideal=20 of=20 > > national security has taken away all our personal freedoms. We=20 have=20 > a=20 > > new nose on an old face, democracy mimicking communism. Democracy=20 > > invents a reason, doesn't matter if it is true or false,=20 communism=20 > > promised a better way of life.=20 > > >=20 > > > Cass > > >=20 > > > Cass > > >=20 > > > Drpsionic@ wrote: > > >=20 > > > The IOC has placed restrictions on what the athletes can say at=20 > > olympic events, however, at least as far as the US is concerned,=20 I=20 > > would not be surprised if Congress passes a bill forbidding the=20 US=20 > > olympic committee from enforcing any restrictions on what US=20 > athletes=20 > > might say in protest and that would also block any disciplinary=20 > > action by the IOC as well as the US olympic committee would have=20 to=20 > > enforce those. > > >=20 > > > Chuck the Heretic > > >=20 > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano=20 > > >=20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Cass Silva > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 9:17 pm > > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Are China facing the Law of Karma? > > >=20 > > > Come to think of it, very little advertising in Australia this=20 > year=20 > > for the Olympics.=20 > > > Cass > > >=20 > > > Drpsionic@ wrote: > > > No, they wouldn't change the location now, but it would=20 certainly=20 > > make life interesting for the IOC.? By the way, my wife has=20 noticed=20 > > something.? Normally the companies that sponsor the games use=20 that=20 > in=20 > > their advertising, usually at the tail end of their commercials=20 > with=20 > > the olympic logo.? Not this year.? They are not mentioning it at=20 > all,=20 > > which means that the sponsors?are already losing money. > > >=20 > > > Chuck the Heretic > > >=20 > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano=20 > > >=20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Cass Silva > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 4:38 am > > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Are China facing the Law of Karma? > > >=20 > > > It won't happen Chuck, too much money invested. They could ban=20 > > China and reschedule the games back to Greece, but that won't=20 > happen. > > > Not taking any sides but I heard on the news that inflation is=20 > now=20 > > running at 9 percent in Tibet and the people are struggling=20 > > economically, on the good side, their health and education has=20 been=20 > > improved since chinese occupation, life mortality is up=20 apparently,=20 > > but I suppose its no good living longer if you dont have the=20 money=20 > to=20 > > feed yourself. > > >=20 > > > Cass > > >=20 > > > Drpsionic@ wrote: > > >=20 > > > China believes that Tibet is a part of China.?=20 > > >=20 > > > China is an interesting country in that it actually does not=20 have=20 > a=20 > > history expansionism after the Mongols, but it does claim an=20 > interest=20 > > in certain contiguous territories. > > >=20 > > > Now, conventional protests don't work on the Chinese.? They=20 have=20 > > skins almost as thick as American conservatives and they just=20 don't=20 > > give a damn.? But they are sensitive to certain things and while=20 > the=20 > > IOC is not going to cancel its games, the IOC can be made to pay=20 > for=20 > > having them in China, or rather its sponsors can.? Now this is=20 > really=20 > > out of my field of knowledge, but if a major boycott of Olympic=20 > > sponsors could be organized... > > >=20 > > > Chuck the Heretic > > >=20 > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano=20 > > >=20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Cass Silva > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 6:06 pm > > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Are China facing the Law of Karma? > > >=20 > > > I am curious to know why China would be interested in Tibet.=20 It's=20 > > not as though the country would ever be a threat to China, it's=20 not=20 > > as though they have minerals or oil, perhaps the only threat is=20 > that=20 > > the Chinese fear that Tibetinism will spread to the Mainland, who=20 > > knows? If Karma is involved Morten, I suspect that Tibet is also=20 > > dealing with its national karma as well as China. > > >=20 > > > Cass > > >=20 > > > Morten Nymann Olesen wrote: > > >=20 > > > To all readers > > >=20 > > > To all readers > > >=20 > > > My views are: > > >=20 > > > Now, what is going on? > > >=20 > > > Are China facing the Law of Karma? > > >=20 > > > Tibet gripped by violent clashes > > >=20 > > > a.. Jonathan Watts in Beijing=20 > > >=20 > > > b.. guardian.co.uk,=20 > > >=20 > > > c.. Friday March 14 2008 > > >=20 > > > d.. Article history > > >=20 > > > About this article > > >=20 > > > Close=20 > > >=20 > > > This article was first published on guardian.co.uk on Friday=20 > March=20 > > 14 2008. It was last updated at 14:56 on March 14 2008. > > >=20 > > > Tibetans throw stones at Chinese army vehicles in Lhasa as=20 > violent=20 > > protests against Chinese rule break out. Photograph: AFP/Getty=20 > Images > > >=20 > > > The Tibetan capital of Lhasa was on the brink of chaos today as=20 > the=20 > > fiercest anti-government protests in almost 20 years erupted into=20 > > violence between Chinese security forces and protesters wielding=20 > iron=20 > > bars. > > >=20 > > > A radio station reported at least two people had been killed in=20 > the=20 > > rioting. The US-funded Radio Free Asia quoted two witnesses as=20 > saying=20 > > two bodies were seen lying on the ground in the Barkor area, a=20 > > shopping district where protests had been particularly fierce. > > >=20 > > > Armed police used water cannons and teargas on the crowds, and=20 > > witnesses say security vehicles were set on fire and Chinese=20 > drivers=20 > > were carried off with bloodied faces after being beaten by a mob=20 of=20 > > young Tibetans. > > >=20 > > > The US embassy in Beijing said its citizens in Lhasa had=20 reported=20 > > gunshots being fired in the city. The embassy emailed an advisory=20 > > note to Americans warning them to stay away from the city, now in=20 > its=20 > > fifth day of anti-Chinese protests. > > >=20 > > > The Dalai Lama, the spiritual leader of Tibet's Buddhists,=20 urged=20 > > China not to use violence to quell the protests, which he=20 called "a=20 > > manifestation of the deep-rooted resentment of the Tibetan people=20 > > under the present governance". > > >=20 > > > "I therefore appeal to the Chinese leadership to stop using=20 force=20 > > and address the long-simmering resentment of the Tibetan people=20 > > through dialogue with the Tibetan people," he said in a statement. > > >=20 > > > The EU and the White House also issued statements urging China=20 to=20 > > show restraint. > > >=20 > > > Coming just months before the start of the 2008 Olympics, the=20 > > protests against Beijing rule threaten to overshadow preparations=20 > for=20 > > the games. > > >=20 > > > A resident told the Guardian that he heard an explosion and=20 > around=20 > > 10 shots every minute at one point, but thought it was teargas=20 > rather=20 > > than bullets being fired because he saw people running from=20 plumes=20 > of=20 > > smoke and covering their mouths. > > >=20 > > > "I am too afraid to go out," the source, who asked to remain=20 > > anonymous, said. "It is chaos out there." > > >=20 > > > The source, who is from the Chinese Han ethnic group, said he=20 saw=20 > > Tibetans attack two fire engines. > > >=20 > > > "I saw Tibetans throwing stones at the vehicles. They dragged=20 > > drivers from vehicles, took off their uniforms and helmets, then=20 > beat=20 > > them. > > >=20 > > > "The chanting mob beat up around five or six drivers who had to=20 > be=20 > > carried away with blood on their faces ... then they put a=20 > motorbike=20 > > under the fire engine and set fire to it so the engine was=20 burned." > > >=20 > > > The report was difficult to confirm. The Chinese government has=20 > yet=20 > > to make a statement, and communications with the tightly- controlled=20 > > Himalayan region are difficult even during calm periods. > > >=20 > > > A blogger who writes from Lhasa under the name Beifang=20 described=20 > > the violence on his blog. > > >=20 > > > "Police cars and fire engines were outside smashed and burned.=20 A=20 > > lot of Tibetans ran towards Dazhao [Jokhang] temple. I heard=20 > > gunshots. Five army police vehicles drove that way. A large=20 number=20 > of=20 > > armed police followed. A few people with blood on their faces=20 were=20 > > taken away." > > >=20 > > > Tibetan support groups overseas said they were hearing reports=20 of=20 > a=20 > > fire and protests near the Tromsikhang market near the Jokhang=20 > temple=20 > > in central Lhasa. > > >=20 > > > According to the Free Tibet campaign, there were also protests=20 > > today in the Labrang monastery in Gansu province, where 200 monks=20 > led=20 > > demonstrations on the streets. The group said this showed the=20 > > protests were gathering momentum. > > >=20 > > > The AFP news agency said one of its reporters saw monks leading=20 a=20 > > crowd of around 300 people near the monastery, one of the most=20 > > important in Tibetan Buddhism. > > >=20 > > > Since the first protest by monks on Monday, thousands of armed=20 > > police have locked down monasteries in and around Lhasa.=20 Witnesses=20 > > said today's protesters were mostly lay Tibetans. > > >=20 > > > China's Xinhua news agency reported that shops had been set on=20 > fire=20 > > in Lhasa but gave no other details.=20 > > >=20 > > > The International Campaign for Tibet said two monks at the Sera=20 > > monastery had stabbed themselves and others had gone on hunger=20 > strike. > > >=20 > > > About a dozen monks were reportedly detained on Monday, when=20 > > several hundred from the Sera and Drepung monasteries took to the=20 > > streets to mark the 49th anniversary of a failed uprising against=20 > > Beijing. Similar protests took place in the Ganden and Lutsang=20 > > monasteries in Qinghai (known in Tibetan as Amdo) where hundreds=20 of=20 > > monks reportedly chanted slogans calling for their exiled leader,=20 > the=20 > > Dalai Lama, to return. > > >=20 > > > The upsurge in activism comes amid growing frustration with the=20 > > lack of progress in talks between representatives of the Dalai=20 Lama=20 > > and Beijing. > > >=20 > > > M. Sufilight > > >=20 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >=20 > > > --------------------------------- > > >=20 > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with=20 > Yahoo!=20 > > Search. > > >=20 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >=20 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >=20 > > > --------------------------------- > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!=20 > Mobile.=20 > > Try it now. > > >=20 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >=20 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >=20 > > > --------------------------------- > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!=20 > Mobile.=20 > > Try it now. > > >=20 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >=20 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >=20 > > > --------------------------------- > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with=20 > Yahoo!=20 > > Search. > > >=20 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >=20 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > --------------------------------- > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!=20 > Mobile.=20 > > Try it now. > > >=20 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > --------------------------------- > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > >=20 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >=20 >=20 >=20 > = =20 >=20 >=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 > --------------------------------- > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of=20 Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > From mkr777@gmail.com Mon Apr 14 20:46:25 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 23876 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 03:46:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 03:46:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.245) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 03:46:22 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c24so534057ana.98 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:46:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.194.5 with SMTP id r5mr7238614anf.146.1208231181772; Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:46:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:46:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 22:46:21 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <47FD6A0A.1060601@dnainternet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <47FD6A0A.1060601@dnainternet.net> X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.245 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Propaganda of Presidential Election? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=8O_TSPKzDaztQlSkSRSfQOwS7RjoA7p_qQ37v7L9PZU1jhPx-hc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43507 In the USA, I saw a letter sent to all members which suggests that Radha Burnier has memory problems (becoming senile?). Here is what it says: "Radha seems to be recovering physically from the stroke she suffered over = a year ago, but, given her age, she still has periods of low energy and* her memory is inconsistent*. While I have deep respect for the wonderful servic= e she has given to the Society and feel that she can continue to be useful as a wise elder, it is for the good of the whole that the leadership pass smoothly to John Algeo, who currently serves as the international vice president. John Algeo has the experience and capabilities to pick up the reins for the best transition and movement of the Society into the future." I will not be in the least surprised if the above was drafted using Algeo's skills as an english professor. You be the judge. I wish Radha Burnier sees the whole letter. If anyone has her personal e-mail address, please send it to me off-line and I can email it to her. mkr PS: The bold print above is mine. On 4/9/08, Jokela Petri wrote: > > Check the propaganda of presidential election and politics of > Singaporean lodge > on their website. I have nothing againts Radha or John, but I belive > this is againts the international rules of TS. Though I am not sure. > Read the title "Presidential Election" right after Radha=B4s article... > > http://www.singaporelodge.org/newsletter.htm >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Mon Apr 14 20:51:53 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 56863 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 03:51:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 03:51:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO hs-out-0708.google.com) (64.233.178.242) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 03:51:52 -0000 X-Received: by hs-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id x43so773235hsb.0 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:51:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.140.19 with SMTP id n19mr13884296and.23.1208231512117; Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:51:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:51:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 22:51:52 -0500 To: theos-L@yahoogroups.com, theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "TS in Philippines" , theos-nz@theosophy.org.nz MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 64.233.178.242 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Radha Burnier's E-Mail Address X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=cfg0phPLtWS8xohjsavCv1pUA_de_Gvwp_W6mEzegQAaWxLCRLI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43508 Does anyone have Radha Burnier's private e-mail address. Will appreciate sending it to me off-line. Thanks M K Ramadoss [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dzyan@online.de Mon Apr 14 22:22:16 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: dzyan@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 75663 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 05:22:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 05:22:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.177) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 05:22:13 -0000 X-Received: from captainp6d3981 (brln-4db9738e.pool.einsundeins.de [77.185.115.142]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu8) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0ML31I-1JldcR3zet-00034L; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:22:12 +0200 Message-ID: <005601c89eb8$c379f560$152ca8c0@captainp6d3981> To: References: <47FD6A0A.1060601@dnainternet.net> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:22:54 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+GhwEpokbxZONQ+GQ5rTVDJHrLjVk7S831P1M IVEmBY8uX7J9o/PvMWjyfkmgBVz1oRSFZ6nBwCrbp3E6Z9Gw18 tA7XpJS8aKfSB9ez6WKK+mx3p2ZP07J X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.177 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World Propaganda of Presidential Election? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=302625737; y=m2rARF0pTdX7PZtI3g0hkQwrRoUfiHbRDRIWqg31SQlQcVW2t9SLxtdBiA X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43509 I'm sorry, I have not Radha's private email address (does she really have one???). Senile topic: Algeo claimed in Germany - among other strange things and twinstings - that Leadbeater was on the Mars-Mercury topic a more faithful co-worker to the Masters as HPB was. Leadbeater better informed than HPB!!! On another occassion Algeo lectured in Germany, that theosophy is eternal and can never be destroyed!! The cant majority among the members of the TS heard it well - no need for libraries since 1945, throw it all away, or in best case, make dollarsophia with the old, private collections and sell them to second-hand book dealers. One day I ask the "librarian" of the German Adyar section (yes, they name it that way, even Bernhard Shaw would have not idea of such cant) about the German edition of Virginia Hanson's Karma book, which was published by respactable publisher. No need to have a copy of that book. Why study books? Theosophy is spiritual! Furthermore all is written in the akasha records! Gosh! Such a mental terror as the existing theosophical groups with the fanatical, infantile and hysterical crying women and their direct active fight against anything spiritual, combined with their anglophile love for British cant, hypocrisy, political intrigues under a religios mask ("when Germany finally is destroyed, the world is saved") with thought police, discussion prohibited, has its parallel with the rapid growing communist movement. As a Berliner I studying every day the communistic news. They also said that no discussion was necessary, because all people have one and the same opinion of the workers government, because the workers government and the workers are one and the same. In other words, with such leaders in the maya world we need not fear any Jesuit! Or can it be, that.... Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: MKR To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ; theos-L@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 5:46 AM Subject: Re: Theos-World Propaganda of Presidential Election? In the USA, I saw a letter sent to all members which suggests that Radha Burnier has memory problems (becoming senile?). Here is what it says: "Radha seems to be recovering physically from the stroke she suffered over a year ago, but, given her age, she still has periods of low energy and* her memory is inconsistent*. While I have deep respect for the wonderful service she has given to the Society and feel that she can continue to be useful as a wise elder, it is for the good of the whole that the leadership pass smoothly to John Algeo, who currently serves as the international vice president. John Algeo has the experience and capabilities to pick up the reins for the best transition and movement of the Society into the future." I will not be in the least surprised if the above was drafted using Algeo's skills as an english professor. You be the judge. I wish Radha Burnier sees the whole letter. If anyone has her personal e-mail address, please send it to me off-line and I can email it to her. mkr PS: The bold print above is mine. On 4/9/08, Jokela Petri wrote: > > Check the propaganda of presidential election and politics of > Singaporean lodge > on their website. I have nothing againts Radha or John, but I belive > this is againts the international rules of TS. Though I am not sure. > Read the title "Presidential Election" right after Radha´s article... > > http://www.singaporelodge.org/newsletter.htm > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dzyan@online.de Mon Apr 14 23:05:08 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: dzyan@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 27945 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 06:05:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 06:05:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.179) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 06:05:05 -0000 X-Received: from captainp6d3981 (brln-4db9738e.pool.einsundeins.de [77.185.115.142]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu5) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0ML25U-1JleHs48VX-0001YX; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:05:01 +0200 Message-ID: <006001c89ebe$bed4c890$152ca8c0@captainp6d3981> To: References: Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:05:38 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19nfvyDkfyTRvBiXj8Nd61WAUKQRr2DcFWn94F 9GDOKNjqnzGSFb4Dt0AuI9UJkjw8AiTnpa7Yuq4HQ8M9V599Hq WeP6ccBrDPdGUlvQXPqLhuHdbDg0e3l X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.179 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: The US Constitution - A Midsummer Nights Dream X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=302625737; y=tnnb-DNcuEtOE7tRYlxtZMVFtPZ-F24E4KiPDuNqWUNAjPR_5ru8BHT8Og X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43510 >Its even less of the right thing to be doing today in a world that is imbued with human rights, a movement that HPB played a big role in starting and the USA of today represents. Really? Bernhard Shaw mocked about the Statue of Liberty, that even he, who was skilled about cant, had never such an idea. You in the USA were never free and - according to all probabilities - will never be free. You are behind the curtain under foreign rule. The reason for your low education - adults in the US have an intellect of European school boys, although we here face since 1945 the US foreign rule with descend of intellect and moral with every decade - is, that you must not develop enough mental power to get conscious of your slave situation. You have a two party dictature, where one and the same foreign rule behind the curtain pulls the strings of both sides. It does not matter, if you vote or what you vote or which actor plays the role of exoteric US President or which party has the majority. The foreign rule presents to you their actors and they rule you in either case. The constitution is toilet paper and has no worth. The USA is a quasi communistic state, if we can use in that case the term (in HPB's sense) "state" for the robbery and terror structure, which since 200 years brings (together with the other rogue England) enslavement, mental and physical terror to millions of innocent people all over the globe. The US military stands now in 120 nations of the world to suppress their human rights, the nations rights for their svabhavas. A human life counts nothing for the rogues, which rule the USA. They people in the USA not enough to eat, the have no or insufficent health care, no or insufficent pensions, they have no free press, they can take them their homes away and they are hire and fire slaves on the job market with maximal exploitation. Democracy is staged with fake elections and dummy choices. You should study Purucker on it. I feel compassion with you, because I see very well (Germany, Europe, EU and Nato being un-democratically under US foreign rule) what it means to have raised under such mental terror and brainwashing ("you are free - just believe it") in USA in schools, education, tv, press without the chance to have break out. Comparison and analysis is *potentially* easier in Germany, where we had several systems in short serial order. OTOH, the average German loves alien nations more than his own, while the Anglo-Saxon says: "My home is my castle", "Britannia rules the waves", "Amercian way of life" and "might for right" - so karma has adjusted the changes in the end. I am therefore anti-American? No, I am pro America. Pro America of the founding fathers, not the America of FED, WW I, WW II and two hundred unjust US wars of aggression since 1945, including inside job 9-11. So, what are you going to say to China? Frank From Mvandertak@yahoo.com Mon Apr 14 23:32:40 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mvandertak@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 19798 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 06:32:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 06:32:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52601.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.204) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 06:32:37 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 20738 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Apr 2008 06:32:37 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: ya3btLMVM1l5oj7rmz6EJV_6X94ocsoW6sHAvgadf3svU_T7jHPyfZyW1.aUwX7K_XqlmdBgnAjU4J7iD88uSSRhNJU- X-Received: from [82.217.39.103] by web52601.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 14 Apr 2008 23:32:37 PDT Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 23:32:37 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <27d101c89e65$17704ba0$152ca8c0@captainp6d3981> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <242636.19977.qm@web52601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.204 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Martin Subject: Re: Theos-World Video for Theft Day April 15 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=38276385; y=h1eHaM8gFFKRIhy2kWHFD1_ugndGWTzUVaC38HFq0pL8AR6lPA X-Yahoo-Profile: mvandertak X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43511 Thanx a bill Frank :-) --- Frank Reitemeyer wrote: > Dear Martin, > > I am very busy right now, but here for example you > find KT's support for > Lindbergh's rejection of the illegal, > anti-constitutionally FED coup in US > Congress, The Theosophical Path, August 1927, p. > 158. > > http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/ttp/ttp_v33n02.pdf > > There is much for to find in her outstanding > magazine. > > I feel here the very, strong spirit of HPB. > > You should study the complete run of the magazine. > It's a goldmine and > shocking up-to-date! > Best from Berlin > Frank > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Martin > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 12:44 AM > Subject: Re: Theos-World Video for Theft Day April > 15 > > > Dear Frank, can you link us to some of KT's writings > on this issue please? > I now understand why Jesus got furious with the > moneypeople, since he already forsaw it I bet :-) > > --- Frank Reitemeyer wrote: > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3QmJNZMBeg > > > > Tingley students may find it interesting to > re-read > > what KT has published in her magazines on the FED > > system. > > Frank > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From leonmaurer@aol.com Tue Apr 15 00:03:06 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 78542 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 07:03:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 07:03:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d05.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.37) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 07:03:03 -0000 X-Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c66.2f39d497 (37665) for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 03:02:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from [66.229.64.15] (c-66-229-64-15.hsd1.fl.comcast.net [66.229.64.15]) by cia-mb07.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMB077-93214804530391; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 03:02:29 -0400 In-Reply-To: <8CA640C1E10150D-174C-13E8@FWM-M21.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA640C1E10150D-174C-13E8@FWM-M21.sysops.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753) Message-Id: <69373DE2-91FF-425A-82FF-85E62789C96D@aol.com> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 03:02:48 -0400 To: MindBrain@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753) X-AOL-IP: 66.229.64.15 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.157.37 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Leon Maurer Subject: Re: [Mind and Brain] Aether is the empty space on which the Universe sits X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972; y=lAZen4uOFZ0ueCFMsjBf9Ubf9h8BEdfB1H8xk-Fjs5Ka4Hkv4r4 X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43512 On Apr 3, 2008, at 4/3/089:41 PM, yanniru@aim.com (Richard Ruguist,=20=20 PhD) wrote: > Leon, > > For having read most of your posts on several forums plus our=20=20 > personal correspondence > over several years, I am surprised that I was not aware of your=20=20 > metric and non-metric > space concept. Two other investigations are coming to similar=20=20 > conclusions. LM: If you study my previous outlines of the ABC model, you'll see=20=20 that I've always claimed that; (1) The "spinergy" (angular spin momentum) of the *ubiquitous*=20=20 'singularity' (of GRT) is the fundamental non linear (abstract)=20=20 motional nature of "primal" or Absolute SPACE (Einstein's Aether or=20=20 'total space') -- that is the noumenal cause of all fractal involved=20=20 linear spacetime gravity fields, which in turn -- after symmetry=20=20 breaking at the lowest order frequency energy phase level of the=20=20 metric physical spacetime -- generates and empowers (through=20=20 intermediate ZPF or 'quantum foam') all mass-energy particles and=20=20 their radiant energy fields. (2) Potential consciousness (awareness, will, qualia, etc,) is a=20=20 fundamental quality of the pure *non metric* aether, located=20=20 ubiquitously at the the absolute zero-point center of the "spinergy"=20=20 origin of every energy field and mass-energy form in *metric* spacetime. (3) All radiant fields, beginning with the gravity fields, are=20=20 electrodynamic, carry experiential and constructive information as=20=20 holographic wave interference patterns on their surfaces, and are=20=20 subject to phase conjugate adaptive resonance processes in the=20=20 transmission of such information from one field to another, and=20=20 directly to each non local center of consciousness (pure awareness,=20=20 will, etc.). (4) In all sentient beings, such field centers of consciousness,=20=20 located in every cell of the body, are *entangled* with the=20=20 individual global (self) consciousness, located in the naval center=20=20 of origin of the highest frequency phase order monadic (triune)=20=20 hyperspace field that surrounds all localized fractal involved body=20=20 cell and organ fields -- also in hyperspace... And; (5) All such Higher order hyperspace fields -- that constitute the=20=20 different levels of mind and memory, as holographic information=20=20 carrying, storing and transmission media between consciousness and=20=20 the localized brain, body and sensory systems -- are independent of=20=20 each other, but interconnected, collectively, with the brain-body's=20=20 electrochemical processes and their EM fields by means of phase=20=20 conjugate adaptive resonance processes. > > The first I would like to mention is the work of Hu and Wu, who are=20=20 > arriving at similar > concepts based on earlier experiments they performed regarding=20=20 > entanglement. > In mentioning their work, the following quote is instructive: > > "We have proposed in a previous paper that: (1) gravity originates=20=20 > from the primordial > spin processes in non-spatial and non-temporal pre-spacetime=20=20 > (nonlocal domain) and is the > macroscopic manifestation of quantum entanglement; and (2) thus,=20=20 > gravity is nonlocal and > instantaneous which implies that all matters in the universe are=20=20 > instantaneously > interconnected and many anomalous effects in astronomy such as dark=20=20 > matter, dark matter, > red shift and Pioneer effect may be resolved from this perspective=20=20 > (Hu & Wu, 2007b)." > http://cogprints.org/5614/1/ProactiveSpin(NQ).pdf > > This quote sounds quite like your concept of spinergy LM: Not surprising. But, I'm happy to see that some scientists are=20=20 beginning arrive at it from (and trying to verify it by) an=20=20 experimental approach. Hu and Wu seem to be on the right track...=20=20 But their work, if conjoined with my fractal geometric hyperspace=20=20 mind and memory fields, as holographic information storage and=20=20 transmission media, may need the kind of higher dimensional=20=20 superstring physics and mathematics that you might be able to provide. > > The second line of investigation is by Father Jerome http://go.to/QUFD > His approach is similar to your insight/intuition method but=20=20 > instead relies on revelation. > Still he arrives at an even closer concepts of metric and non-=20 > metric space to yours than Hu&Wu, > but couched in different terminology. He refers to the metric=20=20 > spacetime as the corporeal dimension > and to the non-metric pre-spacetime as the incorporeal dimension.=20=20 > His meaning for dimension differs > from the usual. But then it, the incorporeal, is not exactly a=20=20 > spacetime. A new word is required. > Anyway, his incorporeal dimension is characterized by a seeming BEC=20=20 > of incorporeal axions, > which are not the axions postulated by Helen Quinn to solve the=20=20 > parity problem. I think they may be > the closed-strings of 26d string theory. But Father Jerome seems to=20=20 > disagree. LM: Actually, my insight/intuition was actually triggered into the=20=20 ABC theory about 35 years ago by the nuclear physicist/engineer, and=20=20 one of the "Fat Man" A-bomb trigger designers, Dr. P.S.Perchion (a=20=20 colleague of Bethe and Oppenheimer) who helped me understand the=20=20 connection between relativity and quantum physics from Bohm's,=20=20 Pauli's and Shr=F6dinger's points of view, with a touch of Dirac.=20=20=20 (Luckily, both of us being also, engineers, he could explain it all=20=20 in word-images and energy field diagrams rather than equations. ;-) However, the spherical fractal geometry of the hyperspace=20=20 gravitational fields emanating from fundamental spin momentum came=20=20 long before that, and was based solely on my direct intuition based=20=20 on Einstein's relativity -- which had stuck in my mind since I first=20=20 read his papers and lectures in my teens while staring at and=20=20 exploring the spiral vortex geometry of my fathers library wallpaper=20=20 (designed after some spiral-vortical water flow drawings of Da=20=20 Vinci). It was very easy to visualize that fractal involved=20=20 spherical image of the fundamental spacetime continuum when I started=20=20 considering the possible Mobius-Klein geometry of Bohm's "implicate=20=20 order" linked to Einstein's explanation of the fundamental physical=20=20 yet immaterial and non metric unified nature of the aether. This=20=20 aether, BTW, corresponds with my 'absolute' or 'primal' space, and=20=20 does coincide somewhat with Father Jerome's incorporeal BEC axions.=20=20=20 Actually, however, I think that the 'axions' actually are the=20=20 ubiquitous, physical yet incorporeal ZPE or 'spinergy' sources of the=20=20 ZPF's (quantum foam) in the planck vacuum, that generates and=20=20 empowers all the fundamental 'quantum particles,' 'closed strings,'=20=20 'standing waves,' or what have you -- of "ponderable=20=20 matter" (Einstein's words). > > > As you and Hu&Wu also say, his incorporeality has no dimensions=20=20 > (your terminology) > and all incorporeality is instantly connected. However, I believe=20=20 > that Father Jerome > would consider gravity as corporeal contrary to Hu&Wu. > > I am not sure where you, Leon, would place gravity. As you may=20=20 > realize, > my views are based on Izthak Bars' Two-Time physics > http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0802/0802.1947v2.pdf > which implies for me that our universe is embedded in a larger 4d=20=20 > spacetime > that carries the force of gravity, but not the gauge forces. If=20=20 > Hu&Wu are correct, > the larger spacetime needs BEC properties for gravity to be=20=20 > nonlocal & instantaneous. I think that Father Jerome might be somewhat confused about the=20=20 attributions of "corporeal" and "incorporeal" with respect to=20=20 gravity. However, since I consider overall spacetime -- in all its=20=20 non metric metaphysical (spiritual-mental-astral) hyperspace and=20=20 metric (physical) spacetime permutations -- as gravity fields... And=20=20 since only a small part of it all pertains to the space of light=20=20 matter-energy... I consider gravity as being both corporeal and non=20=20 corporeal. For example the incorporeal part is expanding the Planck=20=20 vacuum space which, in turn appears to be pushing apart the adjacent=20=20 corporeal quantum particle space. In my holographic fractal field model -- with all ubiquitous zero-=20 point originating hyperspace and metric space fields being coadunate=20=20 but not consubstantial, as well as resonantly coenergetic -- there's=20=20 no need for them to individually have BEC properties, in order to be=20=20 nonlocal and instantaneous. The BEC property is reserved solely for=20=20 the aether -- which is a ubiquitous "singularity" that simultaneously=20=20 exists locally and non locally, or both as one and many that can=20=20 never be separated, in essence. This, of course would account for=20=20 the entanglement of non local conscious experience with=20=20 individualized self reflected consciousness centered within any=20=20 sentient being, as well as the entanglement between split particles=20=20 or between different parts of an artificial BEC or superfluid... And=20=20 could also explain telepathy, distant vision, foresight, and other=20=20 psi phenomena and parapsychological anomalies. As you may know, in accord with my topological geometric fractal=20=20 involution model of cosmogenesis, I can only see the light matter and=20=20 two forms of dark matter -- while being equal mass-energy parts of=20=20 the overall metric spacetime continuum -- each spinning on entirely=20=20 different axes of angular momentum, with their vibrational energies=20=20 propagating at right angle planes to each other in total space.** ** http://members.aol.com/leonmaurer/Chakrafield-spherical-col_3.jpg http://users.aol.com/leonmaurer/Fract-Exp-Lt-Dk-matter-text.png Therefore, while they jointly contribute to the overall gravitational=20=20 field expansion of the Universe -- they would necessarily be=20=20 chemically and electrodynamically non interactive as well as=20=20 invisible to each other. Each aspect of matter then, according to=20=20 this model, would appear to have its own independent if not parallel=20=20 involution and evolution. This is something we can only speculate=20=20 about, however -- since their substantial holographic images, as=20=20 energy fields in various vibrational frequencies and topological=20=20 configurations, could be likened to two different holograms stored in=20=20 a transparent solid medium at different angles of incidence, that=20=20 would require a separate coherent radiation at different angles to=20=20 reconstruct individually. This is quite possible, when we consider=20=20 that the holographic fractal geometry of the ABC model indicates that=20=20 the universe constructs itself, involutionally and evolutionally, in=20=20 accord with (and can be understood by) analogy and correspondence --=20=20 based on information stored as modulated wave interference patterns=20=20 on electrodynamic field surfaces. Conventional physical science, on=20=20 the other hand, cannot prove or disprove these aspects of existence=20=20 -- since it can only deal with observables on its own plane, angle,=20=20 dimension, surface, or other *metric* (corporeal, ponderable, etc.)=20=20 state of physical existence. I would hope that we might be able to consolidate all these models in=20=20 one overall master unified field theory, under an entirely new=20=20 scientific paradigm, that could, once and for all, solve all the hard=20=20 problems, and explain all the paradoxes and anomalies of conventional=20=20 reductive material science. There has to be a correct UFTOE that=20=20 ultimately closes the explanatory gap between relativity and quantum=20=20 physics. That QR theory could very well be based on the ABC fractal=20=20 radiative field model of cosmogenesis. Since it's way too late for me to get a PhD in physics... All I can=20=20 do now is wait and see when you, or some other accredited physicist=20 (s) can cook up some appropriate mathematics and get published in a=20=20 major physics journal; a peer reviewed paper covering such an=20=20 entirely scientifically reasonable, unified field theory of=20=20 everything -- followed by, or based on some corroborative=20=20 experimental proof (that might win a Nobel prize. :-) I hope I have=20=20 enough years left to see it happen in my lifetime. Best wishes, Leon Maurer http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/23/13 http://www.tellworld.com/Astro.Biological.Coenergetics/ > > yanniru > > -----Original Message----- > From: Leon Maurer > To: MindBrain@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 9:01 pm > Subject: Re: [Mind and Brain] Aether is the empty space on which=20=20 > the Universe sits > Apparently, there is a misunderstanding of the difference between non > metric (ZPE) "empty space" and metric (ZPF) "spacetime". > > Spaceships (and any other ponderable material forms) can only move > through metric spacetime. Yet zero-point empty space or aether is > real *substance* (which spacetime and all its material permutations > could not exist without) that has no measurable dimensions. > > Unfortunately, meta theoreticians that base everything on the > material neurology and its metrics (along with other materialists and > quantum theorists) -- cannot see the forest for the trees. ;- > (snip) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Augoeides-222@comcast.net Tue Apr 15 00:25:15 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: augoeides-222@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 94486 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 07:25:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 07:25:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO QMTA06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net) (76.96.62.56) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 07:25:12 -0000 X-Received: from OMTA05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.43]) by QMTA06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id DjKU1Z00e0vyq2s5600C00; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:23:45 +0000 X-Received: from amailcenter11.comcast.net ([204.127.225.111]) by OMTA05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id DjRB1Z0012Qq2as3R00000; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:25:11 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=zKHJ82bpdc8A:10 a=70EbXVwuBAoA:10 a=nG4AUVl/d2FqB4X2cmki4A==:17 a=1XWaLZrsAAAA:8 a=kUxZhNFXAAAA:8 a=2BVJPLoPAAAA:8 a=HsEYZLdOoWwFWdzSGucA:9 a=s9hvJZkSPFNC1mgvq_YA:7 a=wd1qwEnYC2EMDqsxruh96PD_i2gA:4 a=ao4RW71Vw8YA:10 a=ytKX87wCxq8A:10 a=iYlkOlhu7C0A:10 a=GT8UQt-YAAAA:8 a=CjxXgO3LAAAA:8 a=G_5s8neSAAAA:8 a=Vu8eYtvW6-HCf0MHIyQA:9 a=X7j_xZ6jIQ4g-7B-ndwA:7 a=zBInjQVDUKu9k8FP7lRQYl2zeBIA:4 a=l1KeHmMDpNIA:10 a=jeN6Q-uZn2oA:10 a=syfC3iHSy1IA:10 a=3RUscb4Gk-EA:10 a=3AvaB-oZer8A:10 a=37WNUvjkh6kA:10 X-Received: from [67.172.124.83] by amailcenter11.comcast.net; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:25:11 +0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:25:11 +0000 Message-Id: <041520080725.22506.48045857000004F2000057EA2215593414CDCDCDD39C0A0B070A01099ABE@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 30 2007) X-Authenticated-Sender: QXVnb2VpZGVzLTIyMkBjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 76.96.62.56 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net Subject: Re: Theos-World Propaganda of Presidential Election? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=314500470; y=cUI265_DqkGrprMjNrqzliSU6LA5aZYrpR2TteS4onf9aDDQgGBvloJffuIpZN0W X-Yahoo-Profile: sessesgenbarpharanges Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43513 Frank, Well the current news from Nepal is that the Maoists have won what they = murdered 13,000 people over. They will control Nepal, trash the Monarchy th= ere, rewrite it's Constitution, reform along Maoists visions, subject 28.3 = million more to Communism to the delight of the creeping Totalitarian Socia= list Marxist Communists of China another border will soon disappear like Ti= bet's did. There is no Tibet on Google Earth or current commercial Maps! >>>http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iQqFncSe_cwJ-hxHfcFOwbPC2lPw<<< China's Nuclear Forces continue to grow >>>http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Analysis_China_continues_nuke_buildup_99= 9.html<<< Every square mile they take from the Free World dooms the people who lived = there and enlarges the Strategic holding of Chinese Atheist Regime. They al= so claim the Spratley Islands of the So. China Sea parallel to the Philippi= nes who dispute their claim. And also the Paracel Islands which they have f= ortified Militarily extending their reach far beyond their shores. They als= o strongly claim Taiwan and the decolonization under the UN Mandate Against= Neocolonilism released Macao, Hong Kong and other from Free Democratic Col= onial Protection only to eternally doom their peoples to the Iron Hand of= Communist China. China is very active Globally they have possession of bot= h ends of the Panama Canal Commercially. They are Major players and have co= nsiderable Holdings in the Bahamas, the list is too long for this Forum. Ne= ro plays his fiddle today he never died! Regards, John -------------- Original message --------------=20 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" =20 I'm sorry, I have not Radha's private email address (does she really have one???). Senile topic: Algeo claimed in Germany - among other strange things and twinstings - that Leadbeater was on the Mars-Mercury topic a more faithful co-worker to the Masters as HPB was. Leadbeater better informed than HPB!!! On another occassion Algeo lectured in Germany, that theosophy is eternal and can never be destroyed!! The cant majority among the members of the TS heard it well - no need for libraries since 1945, throw it all away, or in best case, make dollarsophia with the old, private collections and sell them to second-hand book dealers= . One day I ask the "librarian" of the German Adyar section (yes, they name i= t that way, even Bernhard Shaw would have not idea of such cant) about the German edition of Virginia Hanson's Karma book, which was published by respactable publisher. No need to have a copy of that book. Why study books= ? Theosophy is spiritual! Furthermore all is written in the akasha records! Gosh! Such a mental terror as the existing theosophical groups with the fanatical= , infantile and hysterical crying women and their direct active fight against anything spiritual, combined with their anglophile love for British cant, hypocrisy, political intrigues under a religios mask ("when Germany finally is destroyed, the world is saved") with thought police, discussion prohibited, has its parallel with the rapid growing communist movement. As a Berliner I studying every day the communistic news. They also said=20 that no discussion was necessary, because all people have one and the same opinion of the workers government, because the workers government and the workers are one and the same. In other words, with such leaders in the maya world we need not fear any Jesuit! Or can it be, that.... Frank ----- Original Message -----=20 From: MKR To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ; theos-L@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 5:46 AM Subject: Re: Theos-World Propaganda of Presidential Election? In the USA, I saw a letter sent to all members which suggests that Radha Burnier has memory problems (becoming senile?). Here is what it says: "Radha seems to be recovering physically from the stroke she suffered over = a year ago, but, given her age, she still has periods of low energy and* her memory is inconsistent*. While I have deep respect for the wonderful servic= e she has given to the Society and feel that she can continue to be useful as a wise elder, it is for the good of the whole that the leadership pass smoothly to John Algeo, who currently serves as the international vice president. John Algeo has the experience and capabilities to pick up the reins for the best transition and movement of the Society into the future." I will not be in the least surprised if the above was drafted using Algeo's skills as an english professor. You be the judge. I wish Radha Burnier sees the whole letter. If anyone has her personal e-mail address, please send it to me off-line and I can email it to her. mkr PS: The bold print above is mine. On 4/9/08, Jokela Petri wrote: > > Check the propaganda of presidential election and politics of > Singaporean lodge > on their website. I have nothing againts Radha or John, but I belive > this is againts the international rules of TS. Though I am not sure. > Read the title "Presidential Election" right after Radha=B4s article... > > http://www.singaporelodge.org/newsletter.htm > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com Tue Apr 15 03:04:55 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 21060 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 10:04:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 10:04:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n13.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.140) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 10:04:53 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.88] by n13.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 10:04:52 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t4.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 10:04:52 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 10:04:52 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 10:04:52 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.103.140 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 83.87.102.145 From: "christinaleestemaker" Subject: Re: Radha Burnier's E-Mail Address X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162317756; y=2x9iE9HeQbjwsq_IIFBwwqn1Hx0YO6DPq3Yq3JrmTjBSLWkGpt087AYuVbQXhvA X-Yahoo-Profile: christinaleestemaker X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43514 Presidential Address Radha Burnier. Secretary E-mail:=20 theossoc@satyam.net.in Fax: (91-44)490-2706 ... Headquarters: ADYAR, CHENNAI (MADRAS) 600 020, INDIA Cable: OLCOTT Secretary E-mail: theossoc@satyam.net.in Fax: (91-44)490-2706 Treasury E-mail: theos.soc@gems.vsnl.net.in Fax: (91-44)446-3464 Editorial Office E-mail: theosophist@eth.net website: http://www.ts-adyar.org --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, MKR wrote: > > Does anyone have Radha Burnier's private e-mail address. Will=20 appreciate > sending it to me off-line. Thanks >=20 > M K Ramadoss >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > From christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com Tue Apr 15 03:09:23 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 49681 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 10:09:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 10:09:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n46c.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.180) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 10:09:21 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n46.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 10:09:21 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 10:09:21 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.48] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 10:09:21 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 10:09:21 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.168.180 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 83.87.102.145 From: "christinaleestemaker" Subject: again e mail for after sending it was not correct,as I put it on the post X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162317756; y=Y0BQUgFa6yAe28EVSjBvBJrcHHx0wDdTdL7VO-FwGJIsEFC8J6E3lvqdnlRUghw X-Yahoo-Profile: christinaleestemaker X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43515 Headquarters: ADYAR, CHENNAI (MADRAS) 600 020, INDIA Cable: OLCOTT Secretary E-mail: theossoc@satyam.net.in Fax: (91-44)490-2706 Treasury E-mail: theossoc@gems.vsnl.net.in Fax: (91-44)446-3464 Editorial Office E-mail: theosophist@eth.net website: http://www.ts-adyar.org From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Apr 15 05:04:27 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 9523 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 12:04:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 12:04:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.245) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 12:04:24 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id d11so473091and.118 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 05:04:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.33.9 with SMTP id g9mr14714776ang.105.1208261063574; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 05:04:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 05:04:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:04:23 -0500 To: theos-L@yahoogroups.com, theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.245 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=Ib9cmZt5ptqHxxlLj2AT0gOlQFtDnY2tm2LBsbnzAuTY1NzZG1Q Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43516 I just received the following from cyberspace. It makes interesting reading and you decide for yourself. mkr ============================================================== Dear Colleague, This is to inform you that I have received 14 nominations from General Secretaries etc, who represent a totality of 17,037 votes. Dr John Algeo has received 21 nominations, representing a totality of 10,685 votes. I think we need younger people to be in charge of the Society's work and that they have to stay in Adyar. Dr. Algeo who is around 78, does not like the climate here, nor can he leave the United States for more than a short time, in view of his wife's condition. I believe that if elected he intends to work largely from America through e-mail and video conversations. It is necessary to have the right candidates for the officers of the Theosophical Society. I believe that Mrs Linda Oliveira and her husband, and some members from Britain , etc., will be coming to Adyar shortly, to stay and work here. You know very well that since Col. H.S. Olcott, all Presidents have lived at Adyar, and this was not merely a matter of their convenience. Adyar has been considered as a Spiritual Centre. From here the work of the Society can best send forth the power and blessing of the Elder Brethren. Such programmes as the International Convention and the School of the Wisdom, which are features of Adyar attract many members from around the world. Many of these members are able to return to their lodges with a greater understanding of the purpose of the Society and the work of the Founders. In my view it would not be a good thing to have somebody live in the United States and run Adyar by proxy. Adyar should be maintained as a living Headquarters for reasons which are obvious to those who know the history of the Society. Yours fraternally, Radha Burnier [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Apr 15 05:20:32 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 27888 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 12:20:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 12:20:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.249) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 12:20:29 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c38so569964ana.75 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 05:20:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.101.67.15 with SMTP id u15mr14796527ank.19.1208262028112; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 05:20:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 05:20:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:20:28 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.249 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS Adyar Presidential Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=bz5Ky3OIowzcG-Otv9JwB0ETq4d01lY-c7gLFWweTxz1FpIZXs8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43517 >From a recent message, I understand that John Algeo who is running for the office of International President is 78 years young and his personal situation is such that he cannot live in Adyar and he plans to operate remotely as International President from the United States. If this is true, in my humble opinion, it would be the first time in International leadership, personal convenience will override the interests of the organization. The position is not just a figure head. It would be sorry day for the TS and TS as we know it may be heading south as they call it here. I think this is a very important factual information that should be widely made known to the International membership so that the membership can decide if that is what they want for the International leadership. In this day of Internet, it is very easy to broadcast info such as this. My 0.02. mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From adelasie@sbcglobal.net Tue Apr 15 07:07:53 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: adelasie@sbcglobal.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 46337 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 14:07:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 14:07:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO smtp116.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.89) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 14:07:51 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 36675 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 14:07:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.2?) (adelasie@sbcglobal.net@63.196.195.30 with login) by smtp116.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 14:07:50 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: _RDOktQVM1kBNsw7jLYX1IF54QyhiZdKJJZ_bFEk_9f_NyjdBqC5RBHQARcGK4QwFOfxCAhCxQ-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:08:08 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <48045458.29279.1FBD8D8A@adelasie.sbcglobal.net> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.89 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "adelasie" Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=161282999 X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43518 Hello All, To me it seems very strange to have theosophists campaining against each other for office. It seem contrary to the basic ideas of theosophy, that we support each other, love each other as blood kin, put the other before ourself. Is this the usual way the Theosophical Society selects its leaders? Adelasie On 15 Apr 2008 at 7:04, MKR wrote: > I just received the following from cyberspace. It makes interesting reading > and you decide for yourself. > > mkr > > ============================================================== > Dear Colleague, > > This is to inform you that I have received 14 nominations from General > Secretaries etc, who represent a totality of 17,037 votes. Dr John Algeo has > received 21 nominations, representing a totality of 10,685 votes. > > I think we need younger people to be in charge of the Society's work and > that they have to stay in Adyar. Dr. Algeo who is around 78, does not like > the climate here, nor can he leave the United States for more than a short > time, in view of his wife's condition. I believe that if elected he intends > to work largely from America through e-mail and video conversations. > > It is necessary to have the right candidates for the officers of the > Theosophical Society. I believe that Mrs Linda Oliveira and her husband, and > some members from Britain , etc., will be coming to Adyar shortly, to stay > and work here. > > You know very well that since Col. H.S. Olcott, all Presidents have lived at > Adyar, and this was not merely a matter of their convenience. Adyar has been > considered as a Spiritual Centre. From here the work of the Society can best > send forth the power and blessing of the Elder Brethren. Such programmes as > the International Convention and the School of the Wisdom, which are > features of Adyar attract many members from around the world. Many of these > members are able to return to their lodges with a greater understanding of > the purpose of the Society and the work of the Founders. > > In my view it would not be a good thing to have somebody live in the United > States and run Adyar by proxy. Adyar should be maintained as a living > Headquarters for reasons which are obvious to those who know the history of > the Society. > > Yours fraternally, > > Radha Burnier > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Apr 15 07:33:00 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 17485 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 14:32:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 14:32:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.248) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 14:32:45 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c37so602831anc.85 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:32:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.202.9 with SMTP id z9mr8293906anf.122.1208269964155; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:32:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:32:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 09:32:44 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <48045458.29279.1FBD8D8A@adelasie.sbcglobal.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <48045458.29279.1FBD8D8A@adelasie.sbcglobal.net> X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.248 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=H1hfDyGl17fWccfh1DXhqkAhk2OpYNtqXFUwkzoKQHqlX08xdwM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43519 If the report that Algeo is planning to remote operate the TS Presidency from the USA, I think it is important that the membership who are voting should be aware of the fact. This is all the more so because it would be just to accommodate his personal convenience and it would seem his personal interests have priority over that of the Presidency. I am glad that in the age of Internet we are able to be instantly informed even though we rarely see any of the theosophical leaders showing up on the maillists such as this. mkr On 4/15/08, adelasie wrote: > > Hello All, > > To me it seems very strange to have theosophists campaining against > each other for office. It seem contrary to the basic ideas of > theosophy, that we support each other, love each other as blood kin, > put the other before ourself. Is this the usual way the Theosophical > Society selects its leaders? > > Adelasie > > On 15 Apr 2008 at 7:04, MKR wrote: > > > I just received the following from cyberspace. It makes interesting > reading > > and you decide for yourself. > > > > mkr > > > > ============================================================== > > Dear Colleague, > > > > This is to inform you that I have received 14 nominations from General > > Secretaries etc, who represent a totality of 17,037 votes. Dr John Algeo > has > > received 21 nominations, representing a totality of 10,685 votes. > > > > I think we need younger people to be in charge of the Society's work and > > that they have to stay in Adyar. Dr. Algeo who is around 78, does not > like > > the climate here, nor can he leave the United States for more than a > short > > time, in view of his wife's condition. I believe that if elected he > intends > > to work largely from America through e-mail and video conversations. > > > > It is necessary to have the right candidates for the officers of the > > Theosophical Society. I believe that Mrs Linda Oliveira and her husband, > and > > some members from Britain , etc., will be coming to Adyar shortly, to > stay > > and work here. > > > > You know very well that since Col. H.S. Olcott, all Presidents have > lived at > > Adyar, and this was not merely a matter of their convenience. Adyar has > been > > considered as a Spiritual Centre. From here the work of the Society can > best > > send forth the power and blessing of the Elder Brethren. Such programmes > as > > the International Convention and the School of the Wisdom, which are > > features of Adyar attract many members from around the world. Many of > these > > members are able to return to their lodges with a greater understanding > of > > the purpose of the Society and the work of the Founders. > > > > In my view it would not be a good thing to have somebody live in the > United > > States and run Adyar by proxy. Adyar should be maintained as a living > > Headquarters for reasons which are obvious to those who know the history > of > > the Society. > > > > Yours fraternally, > > > > Radha Burnier > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From adelasie@sbcglobal.net Tue Apr 15 08:08:07 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: adelasie@sbcglobal.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 34723 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 15:08:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 15:08:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO smtp122.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.95) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 15:08:05 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 38505 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 15:08:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.2?) (adelasie@sbcglobal.net@63.196.195.30 with login) by smtp122.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 15:08:04 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: bRNMGnIVM1l97ogAD1Qvg53f_3SDzOytRJ_UkbxbDFbuL1GtN_v7CdKZnsOx7cd9U5je9d0D8A-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:08:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <48046276.7294.1FF4B1EF@adelasie.sbcglobal.net> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: , <48045458.29279.1FBD8D8A@adelasie.sbcglobal.net>, X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.95 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "adelasie" Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=161282999 X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43520 Hi MKR, I assume from your response that the TS is accustomed to electing its officers, or at least its presidents, and therefore campaigning is not unusual within the Society. But what about the bad feelings that result from the competition for office? Competition seems to me to generate a separating rather than a unifying force. That is what seems contrary to the tenets of theosophy to me. Can you enlighten me? Adelasie On 15 Apr 2008 at 9:32, MKR wrote: > If the report that Algeo is planning to remote operate the TS Presidency > from the USA, I think it is important that the membership who are voting > should be aware of the fact. > > This is all the more so because it would be just to accommodate his personal > convenience and it would seem his personal interests have priority over that > of the Presidency. > > I am glad that in the age of Internet we are able to be instantly informed > even though we rarely see any of the theosophical leaders showing up on the > maillists such as this. > > mkr > > > On 4/15/08, adelasie wrote: > > > > Hello All, > > > > To me it seems very strange to have theosophists campaining against > > each other for office. It seem contrary to the basic ideas of > > theosophy, that we support each other, love each other as blood kin, > > put the other before ourself. Is this the usual way the Theosophical > > Society selects its leaders? > > > > Adelasie > > > > On 15 Apr 2008 at 7:04, MKR wrote: > > > > > I just received the following from cyberspace. It makes interesting > > reading > > > and you decide for yourself. > > > > > > mkr > > > > > > ============================================================== > > > Dear Colleague, > > > > > > This is to inform you that I have received 14 nominations from General > > > Secretaries etc, who represent a totality of 17,037 votes. Dr John Algeo > > has > > > received 21 nominations, representing a totality of 10,685 votes. > > > > > > I think we need younger people to be in charge of the Society's work and > > > that they have to stay in Adyar. Dr. Algeo who is around 78, does not > > like > > > the climate here, nor can he leave the United States for more than a > > short > > > time, in view of his wife's condition. I believe that if elected he > > intends > > > to work largely from America through e-mail and video conversations. > > > > > > It is necessary to have the right candidates for the officers of the > > > Theosophical Society. I believe that Mrs Linda Oliveira and her husband, > > and > > > some members from Britain , etc., will be coming to Adyar shortly, to > > stay > > > and work here. > > > > > > You know very well that since Col. H.S. Olcott, all Presidents have > > lived at > > > Adyar, and this was not merely a matter of their convenience. Adyar has > > been > > > considered as a Spiritual Centre. From here the work of the Society can > > best > > > send forth the power and blessing of the Elder Brethren. Such programmes > > as > > > the International Convention and the School of the Wisdom, which are > > > features of Adyar attract many members from around the world. Many of > > these > > > members are able to return to their lodges with a greater understanding > > of > > > the purpose of the Society and the work of the Founders. > > > > > > In my view it would not be a good thing to have somebody live in the > > United > > > States and run Adyar by proxy. Adyar should be maintained as a living > > > Headquarters for reasons which are obvious to those who know the history > > of > > > the Society. > > > > > > Yours fraternally, > > > > > > Radha Burnier > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Apr 15 08:31:19 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 62497 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 15:31:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 15:31:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.243) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 15:31:16 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id d11so1189925and.122 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:31:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.171.10 with SMTP id t10mr15120961ane.72.1208273476278; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:31:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:31:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 10:31:16 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <48046276.7294.1FF4B1EF@adelasie.sbcglobal.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <48045458.29279.1FBD8D8A@adelasie.sbcglobal.net> <48046276.7294.1FF4B1EF@adelasie.sbcglobal.net> X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.243 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=WrI93gZ2yUjZhj0dlKYaaCdaty3R-EyEqS9C-Yj2W-B_1QQMcxA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43521 Hi In a democratic election, TS was setup in a democratic model with election by members, I think the members are entitled to know as much about the candidates (education, training - both formal and ecceliastical) and their plans, their physical and mental health etc so that they can make an intelligent choice when it comes to casting ballots. If it was intended that there should be no friendly competition for office, then TS could have been setup with appointed leadership. In an open and friendly competition, there should not be any bad feeling at all. We have witnessed elections in the TS in the past, usually well organized, both in the USA and world-wide, and I am glad that big guns were not brought into the picture to sway the voters. Any how let us see what happens. In the past, when the powers controlled the flow of information it was easy to sway the voters by controlling info. Now in the Internet Age, it is far more difficult. Thanks for your quick response. mkr On 4/15/08, adelasie wrote: > > Hi MKR, > > I assume from your response that the TS is accustomed to electing its > officers, or at least its presidents, and therefore campaigning is > not unusual within the Society. But what about the bad feelings that > result from the competition for office? Competition seems to me to > generate a separating rather than a unifying force. That is what > seems contrary to the tenets of theosophy to me. Can you enlighten > me? > > Adelasie > > On 15 Apr 2008 at 9:32, MKR wrote: > > > If the report that Algeo is planning to remote operate the TS Presidency > > from the USA, I think it is important that the membership who are voting > > should be aware of the fact. > > > > This is all the more so because it would be just to accommodate his > personal > > convenience and it would seem his personal interests have priority over > that > > of the Presidency. > > > > I am glad that in the age of Internet we are able to be instantly > informed > > even though we rarely see any of the theosophical leaders showing up on > the > > maillists such as this. > > > > mkr > > > > > > On 4/15/08, adelasie > > wrote: > > > > > > Hello All, > > > > > > To me it seems very strange to have theosophists campaining against > > > each other for office. It seem contrary to the basic ideas of > > > theosophy, that we support each other, love each other as blood kin, > > > put the other before ourself. Is this the usual way the Theosophical > > > Society selects its leaders? > > > > > > Adelasie > > > > > > On 15 Apr 2008 at 7:04, MKR wrote: > > > > > > > I just received the following from cyberspace. It makes interesting > > > reading > > > > and you decide for yourself. > > > > > > > > mkr > > > > > > > > ============================================================== > > > > Dear Colleague, > > > > > > > > This is to inform you that I have received 14 nominations from > General > > > > Secretaries etc, who represent a totality of 17,037 votes. Dr John > Algeo > > > has > > > > received 21 nominations, representing a totality of 10,685 votes. > > > > > > > > I think we need younger people to be in charge of the Society's work > and > > > > that they have to stay in Adyar. Dr. Algeo who is around 78, does > not > > > like > > > > the climate here, nor can he leave the United States for more than a > > > short > > > > time, in view of his wife's condition. I believe that if elected he > > > intends > > > > to work largely from America through e-mail and video conversations. > > > > > > > > It is necessary to have the right candidates for the officers of the > > > > Theosophical Society. I believe that Mrs Linda Oliveira and her > husband, > > > and > > > > some members from Britain , etc., will be coming to Adyar shortly, > to > > > stay > > > > and work here. > > > > > > > > You know very well that since Col. H.S. Olcott, all Presidents have > > > lived at > > > > Adyar, and this was not merely a matter of their convenience. Adyar > has > > > been > > > > considered as a Spiritual Centre. From here the work of the Society > can > > > best > > > > send forth the power and blessing of the Elder Brethren. Such > programmes > > > as > > > > the International Convention and the School of the Wisdom, which are > > > > features of Adyar attract many members from around the world. Many > of > > > these > > > > members are able to return to their lodges with a greater > understanding > > > of > > > > the purpose of the Society and the work of the Founders. > > > > > > > > In my view it would not be a good thing to have somebody live in the > > > United > > > > States and run Adyar by proxy. Adyar should be maintained as a > living > > > > Headquarters for reasons which are obvious to those who know the > history > > > of > > > > the Society. > > > > > > > > Yours fraternally, > > > > > > > > Radha Burnier > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Tue Apr 15 08:52:00 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 69581 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 15:51:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 15:51:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 15:51:58 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.bce.238e00e4 (37544) for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:51:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from WEBMAIL-MA06 (webmail-ma06.webmail.aol.com [64.12.88.70]) by cia-mb02.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMB025-92a84804cf1026f; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:51:44 -0400 References: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:51:43 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 69.217.164.179 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36012-STANDARD X-Received: from 69.217.164.179 by WEBMAIL-MA06.sysops.aol.com (64.12.88.70) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:51:43 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA6D27BCCBC4DE-6C0-376@WEBMAIL-MA06.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.144.208 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=v7imiPoc81UoUrQoq6jG69DYEFoGTDnF3ENIBUIyPECpe-EXkw X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43522 It's getting more and more interesting.? When do they start really throwing mud at each other? Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: MKR To: theos-L@yahoogroups.com; theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 7:04 am Subject: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election I just received the following from cyberspace. It makes interesting reading and you decide for yourself. mkr ============================================================== Dear Colleague, This is to inform you that I have received 14 nominations from General Secretaries etc, who represent a totality of 17,037 votes. Dr John Algeo has received 21 nominations, representing a totality of 10,685 votes. I think we need younger people to be in charge of the Society's work and that they have to stay in Adyar. Dr. Algeo who is around 78, does not like the climate here, nor can he leave the United States for more than a short time, in view of his wife's condition. I believe that if elected he intends to work largely from America through e-mail and video conversations. It is necessary to have the right candidates for the officers of the Theosophical Society. I believe that Mrs Linda Oliveira and her husband, and some members from Britain , etc., will be coming to Adyar shortly, to stay and work here. You know very well that since Col. H.S. Olcott, all Presidents have lived at Adyar, and this was not merely a matter of their convenience. Adyar has been considered as a Spiritual Centre. From here the work of the Society can best send forth the power and blessing of the Elder Brethren. Such programmes as the International Convention and the School of the Wisdom, which are features of Adyar attract many members from around the world. Many of these members are able to return to their lodges with a greater understanding of the purpose of the Society and the work of the Founders. In my view it would not be a good thing to have somebody live in the United States and run Adyar by proxy. Adyar should be maintained as a living Headquarters for reasons which are obvious to those who know the history of the Society. Yours fraternally, Radha Burnier [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Tue Apr 15 08:57:19 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 62612 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 15:57:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 15:57:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m11.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.99) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 15:57:18 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d4c.1a07a8d5 (34995) for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:56:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from WEBMAIL-MA06 (webmail-ma06.webmail.aol.com [64.12.88.70]) by cia-db01.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB018-88b34804d043163; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:56:51 -0400 References: <48045458.29279.1FBD8D8A@adelasie.sbcglobal.net> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:56:50 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 69.217.164.179 In-Reply-To: <48045458.29279.1FBD8D8A@adelasie.sbcglobal.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36012-STANDARD X-Received: from 69.217.164.179 by WEBMAIL-MA06.sysops.aol.com (64.12.88.70) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:56:50 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA6D28739462FA-6C0-3D5@WEBMAIL-MA06.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.143.99 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=baezDwhus3iAb0XcN1SW-eBbDM9eV1Dn2nqFhX8nz-bSFRlKuQ X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43523 The last time this happened e-mail did not exist but it got pretty nasty in its own way, with supporters of each candidate hinting that the other one was insane. Considering that no sane person would want to be international president in the first place, it sort of made sense and so it became a question of which was nuttier, the failed actress or the loon who thought that she was an arhat.? It is true that John Algeo cannot stand heat very well but he takes the heat of politics very well indeed.? I'm not sure about the others. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: adelasie To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 9:08 am Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election Hello All, To me it seems very strange to have theosophists campaining against each other for office. It seem contrary to the basic ideas of theosophy, that we support each other, love each other as blood kin, put the other before ourself. Is this the usual way the Theosophical Society selects its leaders? Adelasie On 15 Apr 2008 at 7:04, MKR wrote: > I just received the following from cyberspace. It makes interesting reading > and you decide for yourself. > > mkr > > ============================================================== > Dear Colleague, > > This is to inform you that I have received 14 nominations from General > Secretaries etc, who represent a totality of 17,037 votes. Dr John Algeo has > received 21 nominations, representing a totality of 10,685 votes. > > I think we need younger people to be in charge of the Society's work and > that they have to stay in Adyar. Dr. Algeo who is around 78, does not like > the climate here, nor can he leave the United States for more than a short > time, in view of his wife's condition. I believe that if elected he intends > to work largely from America through e-mail and video conversations. > > It is necessary to have the right candidates for the officers of the > Theosophical Society. I believe that Mrs Linda Oliveira and her husband, and > some members from Britain , etc., will be coming to Adyar shortly, to stay > and work here. > > You know very well that since Col. H.S. Olcott, all Presidents have lived at > Adyar, and this was not merely a matter of their convenience. Adyar has been > considered as a Spiritual Centre. From here the work of the Society can best > send forth the power and blessing of the Elder Brethren. Such programmes as > the International Convention and the School of the Wisdom, which are > features of Adyar attract many members from around the world. Many of these > members are able to return to their lodges with a greater understanding of > the purpose of the Society and the work of the Founders. > > In my view it would not be a good thing to have somebody live in the United > States and run Adyar by proxy. Adyar should be maintained as a living > Headquarters for reasons which are obvious to those who know the history of > the Society. > > Yours fraternally, > > Radha Burnier > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From anton_rozman@yahoo.com Tue Apr 15 09:10:06 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: anton_rozman@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 67387 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 16:10:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 16:10:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n50c.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.184) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 16:10:05 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n50.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 16:10:05 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 16:10:05 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 16:10:05 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 16:10:04 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <8CA6D28739462FA-6C0-3D5@WEBMAIL-MA06.sysops.aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.168.184 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 82.192.56.78 From: "Anton Rozman" Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=192242904; y=kyGNGE6B1p67GgAWcf5j1u1K76UfnUyRb0iUH1QfKaJvNTvbONgn X-Yahoo-Profile: anton_rozman X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43524 RULES AND REGULATIONS FOR THE MANAGEMENT OF THE ASSOCIATION NAMED `THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY', ADYAR, MADRAS APPENDIX A: Biographical Data of Presidential Candidates Other material concerning the candidates shall not be circulated. Each candidate shall submit to the Secretary biographical data not=20 exceeding two hundred words. The following information shall be included: (a) date and place of=20 birth (b) education (c) past and present occupations (d) date of=20 joining The Theosophical Society (e) work done for The Theosophical=20 Society. Other information may be included but must be factual and shall not=20 contain statements of opinion or policy. The biographical data for circulation shall be drawn up by the=20 Election Committee on the basis of the information supplied by the=20 candidates, and shall be approved by the Executive Committee=20 (excluding any candidates for election) before being issued. From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Apr 15 09:23:04 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 19810 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 16:23:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 16:23:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.241) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 16:23:03 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c3so522168ana.5 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 09:22:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.251.11 with SMTP id y11mr15184975anh.114.1208276579449; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 09:22:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 09:22:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:22:59 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8CA6D28739462FA-6C0-3D5@WEBMAIL-MA06.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <48045458.29279.1FBD8D8A@adelasie.sbcglobal.net> <8CA6D28739462FA-6C0-3D5@WEBMAIL-MA06.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.241 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=1GiBlNKYWbswz1yunkjzRb3d7__WQ6HqJuzIzj47Kf-sbOJ2iXQ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43525 It would be interesting to watch, now that Internet is there free for all, uncontrolled by the organizational leadership. I guess both have had lot of experience in the way of handling elections; but the new factor is the role Internet can play is dissemination of info worldwide. However, one of the first contact I had on behalf of a candidate was made by snail mail, which John used to love. Years ago when he was at Olcott, when I had correspondences with him, even though I used Fax or e-mail for speed and cost effectiveness, he always made it a point to reply in a nicely laser printed letter mailed by snail mail of course paid by TSA. mkr On 4/15/08, Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > > The last time this happened e-mail did not exist but it got pretty nasty > in its own way, with supporters of each candidate hinting that the other one > was insane. > > Considering that no sane person would want to be international president > in the first place, it sort of made sense and so it became a question of > which was nuttier, the failed actress or the loon who thought that she was > an arhat.? It is true that John Algeo cannot stand heat very well but he > takes the heat of politics very well indeed.? I'm not sure about the others. > > Chuck the Heretic > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > -----Original Message----- > From: adelasie > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 9:08 am > Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election > > Hello All, > > To me it seems very strange to have theosophists campaining against > each other for office. It seem contrary to the basic ideas of > theosophy, that we support each other, love each other as blood kin, > put the other before ourself. Is this the usual way the Theosophical > Society selects its leaders? > > Adelasie > > On 15 Apr 2008 at 7:04, MKR wrote: > > > I just received the following from cyberspace. It makes interesting > reading > > and you decide for yourself. > > > > mkr > > > > ============================================================== > > Dear Colleague, > > > > This is to inform you that I have received 14 nominations from General > > Secretaries etc, who represent a totality of 17,037 votes. Dr John Algeo > has > > received 21 nominations, representing a totality of 10,685 votes. > > > > I think we need younger people to be in charge of the Society's work and > > that they have to stay in Adyar. Dr. Algeo who is around 78, does not > like > > the climate here, nor can he leave the United States for more than a > short > > time, in view of his wife's condition. I believe that if elected he > intends > > to work largely from America through e-mail and video conversations. > > > > It is necessary to have the right candidates for the officers of the > > Theosophical Society. I believe that Mrs Linda Oliveira and her husband, > and > > some members from Britain , etc., will be coming to Adyar shortly, to > stay > > and work here. > > > > You know very well that since Col. H.S. Olcott, all Presidents have > lived at > > Adyar, and this was not merely a matter of their convenience. Adyar has > been > > considered as a Spiritual Centre. From here the work of the Society can > best > > send forth the power and blessing of the Elder Brethren. Such programmes > as > > the International Convention and the School of the Wisdom, which are > > features of Adyar attract many members from around the world. Many of > these > > members are able to return to their lodges with a greater understanding > of > > the purpose of the Society and the work of the Founders. > > > > In my view it would not be a good thing to have somebody live in the > United > > States and run Adyar by proxy. Adyar should be maintained as a living > > Headquarters for reasons which are obvious to those who know the history > of > > the Society. > > > > Yours fraternally, > > > > Radha Burnier > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From kpauljohnson@yahoo.com Tue Apr 15 09:26:29 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: kpauljohnson@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 289 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 16:26:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 16:26:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n20a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.49) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 16:26:28 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n20.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 16:26:28 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.197] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2008 16:26:28 -0000 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 16:26:28 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <8CA6D27BCCBC4DE-6C0-376@WEBMAIL-MA06.sysops.aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.49 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 67.187.13.98 From: "kpauljohnson" Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=85941729; y=itQi9yAngKcVw-8ASR59asziZL4JcLQ6-yz8WhgS5QDU4CEwR1jg X-Yahoo-Profile: kpauljohnson X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43526 Self-contradictory justification for voting for Radha: >=20 > I think we need younger people to be in charge of the Society's=20 work and that they have to stay in Adyar. Dr. Algeo who is around 78,=20 does not like the climate here, nor can he leave the United States=20 for more than a short time, in view of his wife's condition. How can an 84-year-old urge people to vote against a 78-year-old on=20 the basis that he is too old? The need for younger people would seem=20 to suggest the current president not run for reelection. I believe that if elected he intends > to work largely from America through e-mail and video conversations. >=20 That is not good enough, and is in fact electoral sleaze. Either you=20 KNOW what he intends or you find out. This "I believe that if=20 elected" demeans the very office over which you are fighting-- as=20 does the "Radha's losing it" sleaze from the Algeo camp. > It is necessary to have the right candidates for the officers of the > Theosophical Society. I believe that Mrs Linda Oliveira and her=20 husband, and some members from Britain , etc., will be coming to=20 Adyar shortly, to stay and work here. >=20 But if John Algeo is elected, they won't? Surely under either=20 scenario, the TS will continue to be governed by a gerontacracy and=20 younger people will be needed to actually do the work. KPJ From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Apr 15 10:45:22 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 47118 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 17:45:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 17:45:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wx-out-0506.google.com) (66.249.82.227) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 17:45:19 -0000 X-Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s14so1905952wxc.26 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 10:45:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.133.1 with SMTP id g1mr2164815and.88.1208281510649; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 10:45:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 10:45:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 12:45:10 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8CA6D27BCCBC4DE-6C0-376@WEBMAIL-MA06.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: 66.249.82.227 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=fE483N5UcKBBkFucbA20KDhTyJQaCB32ImsGUbx21jt6sg57w0w Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43527 I vaguely recollect reading some msgs some years ago about the proposal to move the Intl HQ from Adyar to the West, probably to USA. Anyone recollects this? mkr On 4/15/08, kpauljohnson wrote: > > Self-contradictory justification for voting for Radha: > > > > I think we need younger people to be in charge of the Society's > work and that they have to stay in Adyar. Dr. Algeo who is around 78, > does not like the climate here, nor can he leave the United States > for more than a short time, in view of his wife's condition. > > How can an 84-year-old urge people to vote against a 78-year-old on > the basis that he is too old? The need for younger people would seem > to suggest the current president not run for reelection. > > I believe that if elected he intends > > to work largely from America through e-mail and video conversations. > > > That is not good enough, and is in fact electoral sleaze. Either you > KNOW what he intends or you find out. This "I believe that if > elected" demeans the very office over which you are fighting-- as > does the "Radha's losing it" sleaze from the Algeo camp. > > > It is necessary to have the right candidates for the officers of the > > Theosophical Society. I believe that Mrs Linda Oliveira and her > husband, and some members from Britain , etc., will be coming to > Adyar shortly, to stay and work here. > > > But if John Algeo is elected, they won't? Surely under either > scenario, the TS will continue to be governed by a gerontacracy and > younger people will be needed to actually do the work. > > KPJ > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jokelap@dnainternet.net Tue Apr 15 13:14:12 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: jokelap@dnainternet.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 36227 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 20:14:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 20:14:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.dnainternet.fi) (87.94.96.108) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 20:14:09 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (223-243.adsl.lpoy.dnainternet.fi [78.27.77.243]) by smtp1.dnainternet.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id D541FC8AA for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:14:07 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <48050C94.9020904@dnainternet.net> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:14:12 +0300 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 87.94.96.108 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Jokela Petri Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=281705993; y=tzT6H--lMKvYMxr4yrOEsb5IRG3IcSw0KO6ZzURDRS4KU03YvQoc X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43528 But Radha had choice for the future in her message: Linda Oliveira. Yes, Radha may be too old for any round anymore and may die during it, John also may only stay one round or die during it. Who knows! Maybe Radha meant that it is not good idea to teach anyone for the work of president and therefore offered choice. Some people think she is trying to pick votes. But I was also told that Radha wanted to make John next president earlier, but maybe weather became on the way. At Adyar there is many of Radha´s relatives working there. But I belive that John is good hearted man and will keep things good at Adyar and does not want to kick anyone out or defend Oliveiras and so on coming up. PJ From jokelap@dnainternet.net Tue Apr 15 13:15:39 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: jokelap@dnainternet.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 55865 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 20:15:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 20:15:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.dnainternet.fi) (87.94.96.112) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 20:15:38 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (223-243.adsl.lpoy.dnainternet.fi [78.27.77.243]) by smtp2.dnainternet.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1AAAC809 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:15:37 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <48050CEE.1070406@dnainternet.net> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:15:42 +0300 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: <8CA6D27BCCBC4DE-6C0-376@WEBMAIL-MA06.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 87.94.96.112 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Jokela Petri Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=281705993; y=CDdDf71Q8gn6pAska-yFLxkw4ilmfULVFjcao6P9mZ05krU8ZXpd X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43529 I was at Adyar 20076-2007. Specially westerners spoke about that by saying that it is time to move it to west. That´s all I know. PJ MKR kirjoitti: > > I vaguely recollect reading some msgs some years ago about the proposal to > move the Intl HQ from Adyar to the West, probably to USA. Anyone > recollects > this? > > mkr > > On 4/15/08, kpauljohnson > wrote: > > > > Self-contradictory justification for voting for Radha: > > > > > > I think we need younger people to be in charge of the Society's > > work and that they have to stay in Adyar. Dr. Algeo who is around 78, > > does not like the climate here, nor can he leave the United States > > for more than a short time, in view of his wife's condition. > > > > How can an 84-year-old urge people to vote against a 78-year-old on > > the basis that he is too old? The need for younger people would seem > > to suggest the current president not run for reelection. > > > > I believe that if elected he intends > > > to work largely from America through e-mail and video conversations. > > > > > That is not good enough, and is in fact electoral sleaze. Either you > > KNOW what he intends or you find out. This "I believe that if > > elected" demeans the very office over which you are fighting-- as > > does the "Radha's losing it" sleaze from the Algeo camp. > > > > > It is necessary to have the right candidates for the officers of the > > > Theosophical Society. I believe that Mrs Linda Oliveira and her > > husband, and some members from Britain , etc., will be coming to > > Adyar shortly, to stay and work here. > > > > > But if John Algeo is elected, they won't? Surely under either > > scenario, the TS will continue to be governed by a gerontacracy and > > younger people will be needed to actually do the work. > > > > KPJ > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > From jokelap@dnainternet.net Tue Apr 15 13:23:16 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: jokelap@dnainternet.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 59514 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 20:23:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 20:23:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.dnainternet.fi) (87.94.96.108) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 20:23:15 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (223-243.adsl.lpoy.dnainternet.fi [78.27.77.243]) by smtp1.dnainternet.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F531CA32 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:23:12 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <48050EB5.8090902@dnainternet.net> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:23:17 +0300 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: <8CA6D27BCCBC4DE-6C0-376@WEBMAIL-MA06.sysops.aol.com> <48050CEE.1070406@dnainternet.net> In-Reply-To: <48050CEE.1070406@dnainternet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 87.94.96.108 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Jokela Petri Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=281705993; y=MKk9lU2zrDAj0IokCZPEWurUSItUkTveAL496fl1ubU9utgfse1R X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43530 There is also a threat all the time that city takes the whole land or part of it ot build up new houses by the river. Radha has some frends in (in court?) there who have supported her to have the land. But I am told that Radha has said that she is tired to fight for it, because presure is so heavy. I am also told that some piece of land we have already lost. Also road which goes between main campus and publisihng house was not there during presdential of Annie Besant...In some countries they can just set up a law or something to expropriate the land for the city. From jokelap@dnainternet.net Tue Apr 15 13:27:17 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: jokelap@dnainternet.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 1167 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 20:27:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 20:27:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.dnainternet.fi) (87.94.96.108) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 20:27:16 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (223-243.adsl.lpoy.dnainternet.fi [78.27.77.243]) by smtp1.dnainternet.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CA0FC8AA for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:27:14 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <48050FA8.2070102@dnainternet.net> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:27:20 +0300 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: <48050C94.9020904@dnainternet.net> In-Reply-To: <48050C94.9020904@dnainternet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 87.94.96.108 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Jokela Petri Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=281705993; y=zZVCcgR1zm22hTihx_GbPLFQpxX0sbDsrKgCe8vC4GXsmVrB7KAi X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43531 Dear fellow Theosophist, I feel compelled to break the long standing prohibition against writing political letters during an election. Since Radha Burnier herself has now broken that tradition by sending out the letter given below to a number of our ranks, I do not have any qualms in feeling justified to respond to her blatant electioneering. I have always held Radha in great esteem and still honor her for her tireless and capable work for the Society. However, I have seen with my own eyes that her marvellous abilities are compromised to such an extent that I consider her not to be the best choice for the president and chief administrator of our organization. Her memory and clarity are inconsistent, sometimes right on, and sometimes far afield---as is the case for all of us when aging, especially by stroke, takes its toll. Because she has been such a wonderfully iron willed woman, she now apparently is mis- applying that iron will by trying to cling to an administrative roll that in my opinion is no longer best for the Society or best for her. I can see Radha maintaining a roll of leadership in the spiritual or inner side of things as a wise counsellor, functioning well without undue stress, but I view her continuation as the chief administrative officer for the Theosophical Society as counter productive. We need sharp clarity, consistency, and creative flexibility as we all work together to keep Theosophy alive and vital in the 21st century. We need strong leadership such as John Algeo could provide. As to her letter below, I will let it speak for itself, but I do have to say that I think the reference to age is ironic. Furthermore, it is presumptuous to indicate that John does not also have the capacity to bring in younger workers. And it is presumptuous to define his motives or to ascribe to him the intent to diminish the importance of Adyar as our international center, an action he has clearly stated he is against. If elected, John may not be able to spend all his time at Adyar, but I have experienced him as an able administrator and delegator, and feel assured that Adyar would flourish under his leadership. John has set up a web site http://www.jalgeo..com/ that you might want to see in order to help you decide for yourself. The upcoming election of international president of the Theosophical Society for the next 7 years is a critical one. Please consider carefully. With sincerity and all best wishes, Betty Bland, President The Theosophical Society in America From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Apr 15 16:12:11 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 9832 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2008 23:12:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Apr 2008 23:12:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.251) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2008 23:12:08 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id d33so707690and.34 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 16:12:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.4.1 with SMTP id 1mr9338385and.135.1208301127895; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 16:12:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 16:12:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:12:07 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <48050FA8.2070102@dnainternet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <48050C94.9020904@dnainternet.net> <48050FA8.2070102@dnainternet.net> X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.251 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=oWE6bCf8zYSD2gmqyxDSLpI-xL27-9LjcmW3U8DOIx57b3B8mt8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43532 Thanks for posting the msg. When one looks at organizations, when you find spiritual organizations which grow are usually led by individuals young or middle aged. Look at various leaders in the past. Jesus did not take up a job when young and after retirement took upon himself to start to preach. So was Buddha even though he was born a Prince and his father thought he is going to succeed him. Look at Shri Shankaracharya, he was a young man who did reform Hinduism and died in early twenties. Jiddu Krishnamurti, started speaking when young. Both HPB and HSO worked full time and gave prime of their life to Theosophy in difficult circumstances with uncertain future -- all they had was the conviction of the good Theosophy can do to the world. If you look around many sections and lodges, you will find them all mostly headed by grey haired leaders who may have the worldly experience (and perhaps cunning needed to take smart worldly decisions) and when you look back the progress of the membership growth as a percentage of world population and opening up of the iron curtain, it presents a dismal figure. It is actually going down in percentage of population. Complicating matters is the money and property that has been inherited by the organization. If you also look at the historical organizational steps taken over the years, primarily to protect the property and money, it is almost impossible for any young man or woman to move up the ladder of leadership unless he or she starts a parallel organization. So while we all want and hope for a future with expansion of the membership, if past is any indication, it is not going to happen unless something like what Jiddu Krishnamurti did when he broke thru organizational clutches and controls (most organizational leaders like to control -- enjoy control -- and int he past it was easy because of the control of the print media), five or ten years from now, we may not see much of change other than couple of more statues of Presidents in the National HQ; most like their names, like their pictures printed in magazines at every opportunity. So are we going to continue the maintenance mode led by tired old folks with declining membership in %age? I am afraid that may be scenario that we are facing. Let us all hope and pray that some miracle may move the organization in a expansion mode. mkr On 4/15/08, Jokela Petri wrote: > > Dear fellow Theosophist, > > I feel compelled to break the long standing prohibition against writing > political letters during an election. Since Radha Burnier herself has > now broken that tradition by sending out the letter given below to a > number of our ranks, I do not have any qualms in feeling justified to > respond to her blatant electioneering. > > I have always held Radha in great esteem and still honor her for her > tireless and capable work for the Society. However, I have seen with my > own eyes that her marvellous abilities are compromised to such an extent > that I consider her not to be the best choice for the president and > chief administrator of our organization. Her memory and clarity are > inconsistent, sometimes right on, and sometimes far afield---as is the > case for all of us > when aging, especially by stroke, takes its toll. Because she has been > such a wonderfully iron willed woman, she now apparently is mis- > applying that iron will by trying to cling to an administrative roll > that in my opinion is no longer best for the Society or best for her. > > I can see Radha maintaining a roll of leadership in the spiritual or > inner side of things as a wise counsellor, functioning well without > undue stress, but I view her continuation as the chief administrative > officer for the Theosophical Society as counter productive. We need > sharp clarity, consistency, and creative flexibility as we all work > together to keep Theosophy alive and vital in the 21st century. We need > strong leadership such as John Algeo could provide. > > As to her letter below, I will let it speak for itself, but I do have to > say that I think the reference to age is ironic. Furthermore, it is > presumptuous to indicate that John does not also have the capacity to > bring in younger workers. And it is presumptuous to define his motives > or to ascribe to him the intent to diminish the importance of Adyar as > our international center, an action he has clearly stated he is against. > If elected, John may not be able to spend all his time at Adyar, but I > have experienced him as an able administrator and delegator, and feel > assured that Adyar would flourish under his leadership. > > John has set up a web site http://www.jalgeo..com/ that you might want > to see in order to help you decide for yourself. > The upcoming election of international president of the Theosophical > Society for the next 7 years is a critical one. Please consider carefully. > With sincerity and all best wishes, > > Betty Bland, President > The Theosophical Society in America > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From kpauljohnson@yahoo.com Tue Apr 15 17:32:05 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: kpauljohnson@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 85037 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 00:32:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 00:32:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n40a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.134) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 00:32:03 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n40.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Apr 2008 00:32:03 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Apr 2008 00:32:03 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Apr 2008 00:32:03 -0000 Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 00:32:03 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.168.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 67.187.13.98 From: "kpauljohnson" Subject: Senex vs. Puer X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=85941729; y=QF1661lA3paezDZJsNvYw6EMDmLtv2FOSzJGJDGNI2cKMM0XdhAf X-Yahoo-Profile: kpauljohnson X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43533 Hi Doss, Generational tensions reflect spiritual ones, according to the=20 Jungian notion of Puer vs. Senex. Have seen this mentioned only in=20 another forum that Chuck and I frequent, but it seems extremely=20 relevant to the Theosophical situation. Here's an article that=20 applies it in, of all things, Buddhist context: http://www.mudra.co.uk/mudra_individuation.html You wrote: >=20 > When one looks at organizations, when you find spiritual=20 organizations which grow are usually led by individuals young or=20 middle aged...If you look around many sections and lodges, you will=20 find them all mostly headed by grey haired leaders=20 Here I am, a retiree, yet mostly without grey hair, to comment that=20 the gerontocracy in Theosophy is a very serious problem. If an=20 oldster like me could be dismissed as an upstart who hasn't paid=20 sufficient dues to be treated with respect, how old do you have to be=20 to escape the dynamic of Senex-murdalizing-Puer? 84 trying to hang=20 on to power, attacking 78 as too old to take over-- how bigger a clue=20 could one have that this is a seriously dysfunctional organization? > So are we going to continue the maintenance mode led by tired old=20 folks with declining membership in %age? I am afraid that may be=20 scenario that we are facing. >=20 > Let us all hope and pray that some miracle may move the=20 organization in a expansion mode. >=20 > mkr >=20 If such a miracle occurred for the TS, someone over 75 would figure=20 out a way to f**k it up in honor of preserving the glorious imaginary=20 past. KPJ From silva_cass@yahoo.com Tue Apr 15 17:48:19 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 88749 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 00:48:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 00:48:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52111.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.114) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 00:48:16 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 43107 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Apr 2008 00:48:16 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: R3rEc9oVM1lPBh3KuqTAMDpx9vCmYFDPlsO5Ux8zk0ESCK4mPKlUh8VGRA6z3_FTdFxkr194jzEHehWapN2pG5ngd6QZFo8- X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52111.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:48:16 PDT Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:48:16 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <006001c89ebe$bed4c890$152ca8c0@captainp6d3981> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <244864.43035.qm@web52111.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.114 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: The US Constitution - A Midsummer Nights Dream X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=9w_PFE3TwcDQDiY1JTkGcfpcK1vJxYT-5PME2Nue5fcGbrfF5A X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43534 Hi Frank, On the bright side I do think some Americans are now starting to wake up and are starting to realise that the dream they thought existed only in America was fully operational throughout Europe and Asia. I do think the Chinese look at US humanitarianism as hypocritical and ignore it. Can anyone answer the question, "has Tibet improved, in economic terms under the Chinese"? Yes, they are brutual to anyone they consider "undesirable" and I triple kiss the australian ground my feet are on, but if the Tibetans, want to make any inroads, they need to do what Ghandi did in India. Screaming Protestors add fuel to the mess. Cass Frank Reitemeyer wrote: >Its even less of the right thing to be doing today in a world that is imbued with human rights, a movement that HPB played a big role in starting and the USA of today represents. Really? Bernhard Shaw mocked about the Statue of Liberty, that even he, who was skilled about cant, had never such an idea. You in the USA were never free and - according to all probabilities - will never be free. You are behind the curtain under foreign rule. The reason for your low education - adults in the US have an intellect of European school boys, although we here face since 1945 the US foreign rule with descend of intellect and moral with every decade - is, that you must not develop enough mental power to get conscious of your slave situation. You have a two party dictature, where one and the same foreign rule behind the curtain pulls the strings of both sides. It does not matter, if you vote or what you vote or which actor plays the role of exoteric US President or which party has the majority. The foreign rule presents to you their actors and they rule you in either case. The constitution is toilet paper and has no worth. The USA is a quasi communistic state, if we can use in that case the term (in HPB's sense) "state" for the robbery and terror structure, which since 200 years brings (together with the other rogue England) enslavement, mental and physical terror to millions of innocent people all over the globe. The US military stands now in 120 nations of the world to suppress their human rights, the nations rights for their svabhavas. A human life counts nothing for the rogues, which rule the USA. They people in the USA not enough to eat, the have no or insufficent health care, no or insufficent pensions, they have no free press, they can take them their homes away and they are hire and fire slaves on the job market with maximal exploitation. Democracy is staged with fake elections and dummy choices. You should study Purucker on it. I feel compassion with you, because I see very well (Germany, Europe, EU and Nato being un-democratically under US foreign rule) what it means to have raised under such mental terror and brainwashing ("you are free - just believe it") in USA in schools, education, tv, press without the chance to have break out. Comparison and analysis is *potentially* easier in Germany, where we had several systems in short serial order. OTOH, the average German loves alien nations more than his own, while the Anglo-Saxon says: "My home is my castle", "Britannia rules the waves", "Amercian way of life" and "might for right" - so karma has adjusted the changes in the end. I am therefore anti-American? No, I am pro America. Pro America of the founding fathers, not the America of FED, WW I, WW II and two hundred unjust US wars of aggression since 1945, including inside job 9-11. So, what are you going to say to China? Frank between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Tue Apr 15 18:18:00 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 87556 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 01:17:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 01:17:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52105.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.108) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 01:17:57 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 26401 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Apr 2008 01:17:54 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: PcQEdp4VM1mgdf1Z4Qw5FkmmgE96nMVIQOCPAq_.qmQcpXuL80n.4bzKvR6RiNwVbQ-- X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52105.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:17:53 PDT Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:17:53 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8CA6D27BCCBC4DE-6C0-376@WEBMAIL-MA06.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <994186.26232.qm@web52105.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.108 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=RyTu-tmO-hvcjxPZvmsfUwwLPiNHi6zecoHgVyPRxwwwig2wtw X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43535 Mention the word DEMOCRACY Cass Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: It's getting more and more interesting.? When do they start really throwing mud at each other? Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: MKR To: theos-L@yahoogroups.com; theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 7:04 am Subject: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election I just received the following from cyberspace. It makes interesting reading and you decide for yourself. mkr ============================================================== Dear Colleague, This is to inform you that I have received 14 nominations from General Secretaries etc, who represent a totality of 17,037 votes. Dr John Algeo has received 21 nominations, representing a totality of 10,685 votes. I think we need younger people to be in charge of the Society's work and that they have to stay in Adyar. Dr. Algeo who is around 78, does not like the climate here, nor can he leave the United States for more than a short time, in view of his wife's condition. I believe that if elected he intends to work largely from America through e-mail and video conversations. It is necessary to have the right candidates for the officers of the Theosophical Society. I believe that Mrs Linda Oliveira and her husband, and some members from Britain , etc., will be coming to Adyar shortly, to stay and work here. You know very well that since Col. H.S. Olcott, all Presidents have lived at Adyar, and this was not merely a matter of their convenience. Adyar has been considered as a Spiritual Centre. From here the work of the Society can best send forth the power and blessing of the Elder Brethren. Such programmes as the International Convention and the School of the Wisdom, which are features of Adyar attract many members from around the world. Many of these members are able to return to their lodges with a greater understanding of the purpose of the Society and the work of the Founders. In my view it would not be a good thing to have somebody live in the United States and run Adyar by proxy. Adyar should be maintained as a living Headquarters for reasons which are obvious to those who know the history of the Society. Yours fraternally, Radha Burnier [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Tue Apr 15 18:43:40 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 88005 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 01:43:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 01:43:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m24.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.5) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 01:43:39 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.cb3.2cf006df (34932) for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:43:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from MBLK-M40 (mblk-m40.mblk.aol.com [64.12.136.84]) by cia-da04.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA045-8874480559b3307; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:43:15 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:43:15 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 69.217.164.179 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36012-STANDARD X-Received: from 69.217.164.179 by MBLK-M40.sysops.aol.com (64.12.136.84) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:43:15 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA6D7A5EF354E4-F38-2069@MBLK-M40.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.5 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Senex vs. Puer X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=1RjiwWsA9Mk7C5Lke73hv1mQEfh5h6IlXZQZcjjxhLqH5IF16A X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43536 This is what comes of changing the guard every 30 years or so.? If the Theosophical Society had regular election fights instead of ratifications and annointings, it would be spared the peculiar ironies that beset it this time.? I had actually forgotten how old John is but I have never thought of Radha as being less than a centenarian, even 30 years ago. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: kpauljohnson To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 7:32 pm Subject: Theos-World Senex vs. Puer Hi Doss, Generational tensions reflect spiritual ones, according to the Jungian notion of Puer vs. Senex. Have seen this mentioned only in another forum that Chuck and I frequent, but it seems extremely relevant to the Theosophical situation. Here's an article that applies it in, of all things, Buddhist context: http://www.mudra.co.uk/mudra_individuation.html You wrote: > > When one looks at organizations, when you find spiritual organizations which grow are usually led by individuals young or middle aged...If you look around many sections and lodges, you will find them all mostly headed by grey haired leaders Here I am, a retiree, yet mostly without grey hair, to comment that the gerontocracy in Theosophy is a very serious problem. If an oldster like me could be dismissed as an upstart who hasn't paid sufficient dues to be treated with respect, how old do you have to be to escape the dynamic of Senex-murdalizing-Puer? 84 trying to hang on to power, attacking 78 as too old to take over-- how bigger a clue could one have that this is a seriously dysfunctional organization? > So are we going to continue the maintenance mode led by tired old folks with declining membership in %age? I am afraid that may be scenario that we are facing. > > Let us all hope and pray that some miracle may move the organization in a expansion mode. > > mkr > If such a miracle occurred for the TS, someone over 75 would figure out a way to f**k it up in honor of preserving the glorious imaginary past. KPJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Tue Apr 15 18:48:33 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 40541 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 01:48:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 01:48:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m12.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.100) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 01:48:31 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c6e.219ff097 (34904) for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:48:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from MBLK-M40 (mblk-m40.mblk.aol.com [64.12.136.84]) by cia-da02.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA021-885848055ae9ea; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:48:25 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:48:25 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 69.217.164.179 In-Reply-To: <244864.43035.qm@web52111.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36012-STANDARD X-Received: from 69.217.164.179 by MBLK-M40.sysops.aol.com (64.12.136.84) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:48:25 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA6D7B181E4700-F38-20B1@MBLK-M40.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.143.100 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: The US Constitution - A Midsummer Nights Dream X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=Ku0YCHDcfynZ7OK0p2W3rEX49NY5_DMrp_6rK9SHtreaCaa4aw X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43537 The Chinese would have eaten Ghandi for lunch, emitted a large belch and gone on with what they were doing.? In the 1950s a group of Chinese decided to emulate Ghandi and the footage of the soldiers going down the line of sitting protesters, blowing out their brains with those big, old mausers they used back then, was nothing if not instructive in the inherint weakness of Ghandi's ideas as they depend on the other side to play by the rules.? The Chinese ain't the British.? They don't care. Now, if the Tibetans' mythologies have any truth in them, a good hailstorm during the Olympics that levels the game sites would be much more effective.? And fun as well. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 7:48 pm Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: The US Constitution - A Midsummer Nights Dream Hi Frank, On the bright side I do think some Americans are now starting to wake up and are starting to realise that the dream they thought existed only in America was fully operational throughout Europe and Asia. I do think the Chinese look at US humanitarianism as hypocritical and ignore it. Can anyone answer the question, "has Tibet improved, in economic terms under the Chinese"? Yes, they are brutual to anyone they consider "undesirable" and I triple kiss the australian ground my feet are on, but if the Tibetans, want to make any inroads, they need to do what Ghandi did in India. Screaming Protestors add fuel to the mess. Cass Frank Reitemeyer wrote: >Its even less of the right thing to be doing today in a world that is imbued with human rights, a movement that HPB played a big role in starting and the USA of today represents. Really? Bernhard Shaw mocked about the Statue of Liberty, that even he, who was skilled about cant, had never such an idea. You in the USA were never free and - according to all probabilities - will never be free. You are behind the curtain under foreign rule. The reason for your low education - adults in the US have an intellect of European school boys, although we here face since 1945 the US foreign rule with descend of intellect and moral with every decade - is, that you must not develop enough mental power to get conscious of your slave situation. You have a two party dictature, where one and the same foreign rule behind the curtain pulls the strings of both sides. It does not matter, if you vote or what you vote or which actor plays the role of exoteric US President or which party has the majority. The foreign rule presents to you their actors and they rule you in either case. The constitution is toilet paper and has no worth. The USA is a quasi communistic state, if we can use in that case the term (in HPB's sense) "state" for the robbery and terror structure, which since 200 years brings (together with the other rogue England) enslavement, mental and physical terror to millions of innocent people all over the globe. The US military stands now in 120 nations of the world to suppress their human rights, the nations rights for their svabhavas. A human life counts nothing for the rogues, which rule the USA. They people in the USA not enough to eat, the have no or insufficent health care, no or insufficent pensions, they have no free press, they can take them their homes away and they are hire and fire slaves on the job market with maximal exploitation. Democracy is staged with fake elections and dummy choices. You should study Purucker on it. I feel compassion with you, because I see very well (Germany, Europe, EU and Nato being un-democratically under US foreign rule) what it means to have raised under such mental terror and brainwashing ("you are free - just believe it") in USA in schools, education, tv, press without the chance to have break out. Comparison and analysis is *potentially* easier in Germany, where we had several systems in short serial order. OTOH, the average German loves alien nations more than his own, while the Anglo-Saxon says: "My home is my castle", "Britannia rules the waves", "Amercian way of life" and "might for right" - so karma has adjusted the changes in the end. I am therefore anti-American? No, I am pro America. Pro America of the founding fathers, not the America of FED, WW I, WW II and two hundred unjust US wars of aggression since 1945, including inside job 9-11. So, what are you going to say to China? Frank between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Tue Apr 15 18:49:27 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 72379 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 01:49:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 01:49:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d03.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.35) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 01:49:27 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.bda.272c9bc0 (37034) for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:49:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from MBLK-M40 (mblk-m40.mblk.aol.com [64.12.136.84]) by cia-db02.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB024-90aa48055b1117; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:49:05 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:49:05 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 69.217.164.179 In-Reply-To: <994186.26232.qm@web52105.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36012-STANDARD X-Received: from 69.217.164.179 by MBLK-M40.sysops.aol.com (64.12.136.84) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:49:05 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA6D7B3003DCF8-F38-20BC@MBLK-M40.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.157.35 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=lG7-7CB--y1aMODzOJ2-_7udzygiWtvsTtXeTWTU9terDRB4dw X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43538 What has democracy got to do with Theosophy? Chuck the heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 8:17 pm Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election Mention the word DEMOCRACY Cass Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: It's getting more and more interesting.? When do they start really throwing mud at each other? Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: MKR To: theos-L@yahoogroups.com; theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 7:04 am Subject: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election I just received the following from cyberspace. It makes interesting reading and you decide for yourself. mkr ============================================================== Dear Colleague, This is to inform you that I have received 14 nominations from General Secretaries etc, who represent a totality of 17,037 votes. Dr John Algeo has received 21 nominations, representing a totality of 10,685 votes. I think we need younger people to be in charge of the Society's work and that they have to stay in Adyar. Dr. Algeo who is around 78, does not like the climate here, nor can he leave the United States for more than a short time, in view of his wife's condition. I believe that if elected he intends to work largely from America through e-mail and video conversations. It is necessary to have the right candidates for the officers of the Theosophical Society. I believe that Mrs Linda Oliveira and her husband, and some members from Britain , etc., will be coming to Adyar shortly, to stay and work here. You know very well that since Col. H.S. Olcott, all Presidents have lived at Adyar, and this was not merely a matter of their convenience. Adyar has been considered as a Spiritual Centre. From here the work of the Society can best send forth the power and blessing of the Elder Brethren. Such programmes as the International Convention and the School of the Wisdom, which are features of Adyar attract many members from around the world. Many of these members are able to return to their lodges with a greater understanding of the purpose of the Society and the work of the Founders. In my view it would not be a good thing to have somebody live in the United States and run Adyar by proxy. Adyar should be maintained as a living Headquarters for reasons which are obvious to those who know the history of the Society. Yours fraternally, Radha Burnier [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Tue Apr 15 19:16:06 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 1873 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 02:16:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 02:16:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.104) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 02:16:05 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 57679 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Apr 2008 02:16:04 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: bDwoUv4VM1lXTmqLZ1kBAdHlOn7yNIBMNDB9CAtGdCPaTsPyj49oQtiWU8HxxWv3ttGxyU8bUK4OrJUd8qD9xnpWMPI10UA- X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:16:04 PDT Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:16:04 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <48050FA8.2070102@dnainternet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <817257.57393.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.104 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=Z7GxVstz1YhwoXSoCB8CDw4W4vnM0roMNkv1pZO4clU0rZQvuA X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43539 The link didn't work Jokela, however, this 'power struggle' undermines the three principles of theosophy and says more about the 'personalities' of the candidates than they can imagine. The TS should be run by a committee, a round table, although I am starting to think that 10 theosophists in the same room would result in anarchy. Cass Jokela Petri wrote: Dear fellow Theosophist, I feel compelled to break the long standing prohibition against writing political letters during an election. Since Radha Burnier herself has now broken that tradition by sending out the letter given below to a number of our ranks, I do not have any qualms in feeling justified to respond to her blatant electioneering. I have always held Radha in great esteem and still honor her for her tireless and capable work for the Society. However, I have seen with my own eyes that her marvellous abilities are compromised to such an extent that I consider her not to be the best choice for the president and chief administrator of our organization. Her memory and clarity are inconsistent, sometimes right on, and sometimes far afield---as is the case for all of us when aging, especially by stroke, takes its toll. Because she has been such a wonderfully iron willed woman, she now apparently is mis- applying that iron will by trying to cling to an administrative roll that in my opinion is no longer best for the Society or best for her. I can see Radha maintaining a roll of leadership in the spiritual or inner side of things as a wise counsellor, functioning well without undue stress, but I view her continuation as the chief administrative officer for the Theosophical Society as counter productive. We need sharp clarity, consistency, and creative flexibility as we all work together to keep Theosophy alive and vital in the 21st century. We need strong leadership such as John Algeo could provide. As to her letter below, I will let it speak for itself, but I do have to say that I think the reference to age is ironic. Furthermore, it is presumptuous to indicate that John does not also have the capacity to bring in younger workers. And it is presumptuous to define his motives or to ascribe to him the intent to diminish the importance of Adyar as our international center, an action he has clearly stated he is against. If elected, John may not be able to spend all his time at Adyar, but I have experienced him as an able administrator and delegator, and feel assured that Adyar would flourish under his leadership. John has set up a web site http://www.jalgeo..com/ that you might want to see in order to help you decide for yourself. The upcoming election of international president of the Theosophical Society for the next 7 years is a critical one. Please consider carefully. With sincerity and all best wishes, Betty Bland, President The Theosophical Society in America between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From semockr@hotmail.com Tue Apr 15 20:50:33 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: semockr@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 15989 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 03:50:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 03:50:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n14.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.141) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 03:50:31 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.89] by n14.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Apr 2008 03:50:31 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t5.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Apr 2008 03:50:31 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Apr 2008 03:50:31 -0000 Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 03:50:30 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <006001c89ebe$bed4c890$152ca8c0@captainp6d3981> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.103.141 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 75.62.18.24 From: "Richard Semock" Subject: Theos-World Re: The US Constitution - A Midsummer Nights Dream X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=68064314; y=4qn1TfAsg527d6iPthRtMrnmGcxzWhxbLKaSKu_TGX2whg X-Yahoo-Profile: semockr X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43540 --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Reitemeyer" wrote: > > >Its even less of the right thing to be doing today in a world that is > imbued with human rights, a movement that HPB played a big role in > starting and the USA of today represents. >=20 > So, what are you going to say to China? >=20 > Frank I say as the civilized world is saying: Free Tibet! Boycott the Games! You see, I consider the Secret Doctrine more than mere escapist fiction=20 to be dallied with intellectually as did GDeP.=20 Now then, 9/11 as an inside job? The Apollo Moon landings (esp Apollo=20 13) as filmed on some back lot in Hollywood? I see nothing more than=20 escapist fiction in any such claims. And the rest, well, its just so=20 much snobbery. From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Apr 15 21:09:39 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 59348 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 04:09:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 04:09:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.247) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 04:09:37 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b36so755400ana.106 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:09:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.38.3 with SMTP id l3mr9801639anl.134.1208318977102; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:09:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:09:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:09:37 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <48050C94.9020904@dnainternet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <48050C94.9020904@dnainternet.net> X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.247 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=ZkeIX-N8AWbmqAj_0f0uJUaUUlZeHKHD8CFmG5TU_YPKa_nabJo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43541 It would be very difficult to predict how the future events develop. One thing for sure, the organization will continue in spite of any one. However= , the question is: is there anyone on the horizon who has the charisma and foresight to move the organization forward. If past is any indication, that is not the case. Who knows out of the blue a white knight may show up. Another issue that is simmering for a long time is the issue of the local Govt wanting to take large chunks of Adyar for building homes. Years ago, it came up and a stop was put to it due to back channel political connections that past leaders had at highest levels of the Govt at the national level. On the bright side, if the govt takes over the land, the compensation will run into quite a bit of money and it can come in handy if the membership want to liquidate the estate and move to a Western country. mkr On 4/15/08, Jokela Petri wrote: > > But Radha had choice for the future in her message: Linda Oliveira. > Yes, Radha may be too old > for any round anymore and may die during it, John also may only stay one > round or die during it. > Who knows! Maybe Radha meant that it is not good idea to teach anyone > for the > work of president and therefore offered choice. Some people think she is > trying to pick votes. > > But I was also told that Radha wanted to make John next president > earlier, but maybe weather > became on the way. > > At Adyar there is many of Radha=B4s relatives working there. But I belive > that > John is good hearted man and will keep things good at Adyar and does not > want to kick anyone out > or defend Oliveiras and so on coming up. > > PJ > >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jokelap@dnainternet.net Tue Apr 15 21:47:20 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: jokelap@dnainternet.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 10761 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 04:47:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 04:47:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.dnainternet.fi) (87.94.96.108) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 04:47:18 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (223-243.adsl.lpoy.dnainternet.fi [78.27.77.243]) by smtp1.dnainternet.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9975C967 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 07:47:15 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <480584D9.5020002@dnainternet.net> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 07:47:21 +0300 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: <817257.57393.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <817257.57393.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 87.94.96.108 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Jokela Petri Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=281705993; y=GGjXQWmNmnubWhYB00MBs8UDzbMmFJ77OrFK-tB-cXDrtXi20rZq X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43542 We have traditional proverb which says: stupidity tighten ups in groups. Here is he new link. Seems that there was one dot too much in between. http://www.jalgeo.com pj Cass Silva kirjoitti: > > The link didn't work Jokela, however, this 'power struggle' undermines > the three principles of theosophy and says more about the > 'personalities' of the candidates than they can imagine. The TS should > be run by a committee, a round table, although I am starting to think > that 10 theosophists in the same room would result in anarchy. > > Cass > > > > Jokela Petri > wrote: > Dear fellow Theosophist, > > I feel compelled to break the long standing prohibition against writing > political letters during an election. Since Radha Burnier herself has > now broken that tradition by sending out the letter given below to a > number of our ranks, I do not have any qualms in feeling justified to > respond to her blatant electioneering. > > I have always held Radha in great esteem and still honor her for her > tireless and capable work for the Society. However, I have seen with my > own eyes that her marvellous abilities are compromised to such an extent > that I consider her not to be the best choice for the president and > chief administrator of our organization. Her memory and clarity are > inconsistent, sometimes right on, and sometimes far afield---as is the > case for all of us > when aging, especially by stroke, takes its toll. Because she has been > such a wonderfully iron willed woman, she now apparently is mis- > applying that iron will by trying to cling to an administrative roll > that in my opinion is no longer best for the Society or best for her. > > I can see Radha maintaining a roll of leadership in the spiritual or > inner side of things as a wise counsellor, functioning well without > undue stress, but I view her continuation as the chief administrative > officer for the Theosophical Society as counter productive. We need > sharp clarity, consistency, and creative flexibility as we all work > together to keep Theosophy alive and vital in the 21st century. We need > strong leadership such as John Algeo could provide. > > As to her letter below, I will let it speak for itself, but I do have to > say that I think the reference to age is ironic. Furthermore, it is > presumptuous to indicate that John does not also have the capacity to > bring in younger workers. And it is presumptuous to define his motives > or to ascribe to him the intent to diminish the importance of Adyar as > our international center, an action he has clearly stated he is against. > If elected, John may not be able to spend all his time at Adyar, but I > have experienced him as an able administrator and delegator, and feel > assured that Adyar would flourish under his leadership. > > John has set up a web site http://www.jalgeo..com/ > that you might want > to see in order to help you decide for yourself. > The upcoming election of international president of the Theosophical > Society for the next 7 years is a critical one. Please consider carefully. > With sincerity and all best wishes, > > Betty Bland, President > The Theosophical Society in America > > between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99
Be a better friend, > newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > "> Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > From silva_cass@yahoo.com Tue Apr 15 22:42:41 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 20069 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 05:42:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 05:42:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52104.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.107) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 05:42:38 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 1490 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Apr 2008 05:42:37 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: _J4nbJ4VM1mx4iihaec8VLhDAen8_1Cmn2ssqLsJsaQcKO2qdd5F6s.8Lle2Yq_sOdqRXK06jUBkSKQWxqO186clVsOS4gyHKBfJflMFLOZqMIGMG.8tuClA6YHgNagNiMzh7SpKwFr0iEb7kR2REncn34y9_2d2PT7v3.aIebdW36mnLHjdxMMj1WwOis1UiPZ4 X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52104.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 22:42:37 PDT Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 22:42:37 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <480584D9.5020002@dnainternet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <604192.1432.qm@web52104.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.107 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=r70jUkXimfY0O-X9gjqWJtOaqHUZRDbJM_sSvxpK57dqVwbciA X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43543 Still can't find Rhada's letter. Interesting that the Freemasonry badge is part of JA's site. Cass Jokela Petri wrote: We have traditional proverb which says: stupidity tighten ups in groups. Here is he new link. Seems that there was one dot too much in between. http://www.jalgeo.com pj Cass Silva kirjoitti: > > The link didn't work Jokela, however, this 'power struggle' undermines > the three principles of theosophy and says more about the > 'personalities' of the candidates than they can imagine. The TS should > be run by a committee, a round table, although I am starting to think > that 10 theosophists in the same room would result in anarchy. > > Cass > > > > Jokela Petri > wrote: > Dear fellow Theosophist, > > I feel compelled to break the long standing prohibition against writing > political letters during an election. Since Radha Burnier herself has > now broken that tradition by sending out the letter given below to a > number of our ranks, I do not have any qualms in feeling justified to > respond to her blatant electioneering. > > I have always held Radha in great esteem and still honor her for her > tireless and capable work for the Society. However, I have seen with my > own eyes that her marvellous abilities are compromised to such an extent > that I consider her not to be the best choice for the president and > chief administrator of our organization. Her memory and clarity are > inconsistent, sometimes right on, and sometimes far afield---as is the > case for all of us > when aging, especially by stroke, takes its toll. Because she has been > such a wonderfully iron willed woman, she now apparently is mis- > applying that iron will by trying to cling to an administrative roll > that in my opinion is no longer best for the Society or best for her. > > I can see Radha maintaining a roll of leadership in the spiritual or > inner side of things as a wise counsellor, functioning well without > undue stress, but I view her continuation as the chief administrative > officer for the Theosophical Society as counter productive. We need > sharp clarity, consistency, and creative flexibility as we all work > together to keep Theosophy alive and vital in the 21st century. We need > strong leadership such as John Algeo could provide. > > As to her letter below, I will let it speak for itself, but I do have to > say that I think the reference to age is ironic. Furthermore, it is > presumptuous to indicate that John does not also have the capacity to > bring in younger workers. And it is presumptuous to define his motives > or to ascribe to him the intent to diminish the importance of Adyar as > our international center, an action he has clearly stated he is against. > If elected, John may not be able to spend all his time at Adyar, but I > have experienced him as an able administrator and delegator, and feel > assured that Adyar would flourish under his leadership. > > John has set up a web site http://www.jalgeo..com/ > that you might want > to see in order to help you decide for yourself. > The upcoming election of international president of the Theosophical > Society for the next 7 years is a critical one. Please consider carefully. > With sincerity and all best wishes, > > Betty Bland, President > The Theosophical Society in America > > between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99
Be a better friend, > newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > "> Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Tue Apr 15 22:57:23 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 89761 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 05:57:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 05:57:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52108.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.111) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 05:57:21 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 74590 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Apr 2008 05:57:20 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: iNQF4y8VM1lLx2pvAxsRVPg1D7r0sIxN4T_P6jqYrC8g1QPrg2PJiujDrhvenDRJKA3jQTl5Rx9WWoOVymsRrjgB9ScwZCthxZTTgdbLB_74xMHC7PRM5IalNITCMuZfdce_nqK60Qs- X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52108.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 22:57:20 PDT Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 22:57:20 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8CA6D7B181E4700-F38-20B1@MBLK-M40.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <773754.74569.qm@web52108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.111 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: The US Constitution - A Midsummer Nights Dream X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=FG4vHMa8A5ZIjgxhPVQv0V7KO9nlWBlHbdjFtl3AwNDFJjhAsg X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43544 Good point. So the world has to find the Chinese achilles heal. Cass Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: The Chinese would have eaten Ghandi for lunch, emitted a large belch and gone on with what they were doing.? In the 1950s a group of Chinese decided to emulate Ghandi and the footage of the soldiers going down the line of sitting protesters, blowing out their brains with those big, old mausers they used back then, was nothing if not instructive in the inherint weakness of Ghandi's ideas as they depend on the other side to play by the rules.? The Chinese ain't the British.? They don't care. Now, if the Tibetans' mythologies have any truth in them, a good hailstorm during the Olympics that levels the game sites would be much more effective.? And fun as well. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 7:48 pm Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: The US Constitution - A Midsummer Nights Dream Hi Frank, On the bright side I do think some Americans are now starting to wake up and are starting to realise that the dream they thought existed only in America was fully operational throughout Europe and Asia. I do think the Chinese look at US humanitarianism as hypocritical and ignore it. Can anyone answer the question, "has Tibet improved, in economic terms under the Chinese"? Yes, they are brutual to anyone they consider "undesirable" and I triple kiss the australian ground my feet are on, but if the Tibetans, want to make any inroads, they need to do what Ghandi did in India. Screaming Protestors add fuel to the mess. Cass Frank Reitemeyer wrote: >Its even less of the right thing to be doing today in a world that is imbued with human rights, a movement that HPB played a big role in starting and the USA of today represents. Really? Bernhard Shaw mocked about the Statue of Liberty, that even he, who was skilled about cant, had never such an idea. You in the USA were never free and - according to all probabilities - will never be free. You are behind the curtain under foreign rule. The reason for your low education - adults in the US have an intellect of European school boys, although we here face since 1945 the US foreign rule with descend of intellect and moral with every decade - is, that you must not develop enough mental power to get conscious of your slave situation. You have a two party dictature, where one and the same foreign rule behind the curtain pulls the strings of both sides. It does not matter, if you vote or what you vote or which actor plays the role of exoteric US President or which party has the majority. The foreign rule presents to you their actors and they rule you in either case. The constitution is toilet paper and has no worth. The USA is a quasi communistic state, if we can use in that case the term (in HPB's sense) "state" for the robbery and terror structure, which since 200 years brings (together with the other rogue England) enslavement, mental and physical terror to millions of innocent people all over the globe. The US military stands now in 120 nations of the world to suppress their human rights, the nations rights for their svabhavas. A human life counts nothing for the rogues, which rule the USA. They people in the USA not enough to eat, the have no or insufficent health care, no or insufficent pensions, they have no free press, they can take them their homes away and they are hire and fire slaves on the job market with maximal exploitation. Democracy is staged with fake elections and dummy choices. You should study Purucker on it. I feel compassion with you, because I see very well (Germany, Europe, EU and Nato being un-democratically under US foreign rule) what it means to have raised under such mental terror and brainwashing ("you are free - just believe it") in USA in schools, education, tv, press without the chance to have break out. Comparison and analysis is *potentially* easier in Germany, where we had several systems in short serial order. OTOH, the average German loves alien nations more than his own, while the Anglo-Saxon says: "My home is my castle", "Britannia rules the waves", "Amercian way of life" and "might for right" - so karma has adjusted the changes in the end. I am therefore anti-American? No, I am pro America. Pro America of the founding fathers, not the America of FED, WW I, WW II and two hundred unjust US wars of aggression since 1945, including inside job 9-11. So, what are you going to say to China? Frank between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Tue Apr 15 22:57:58 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77791 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 05:57:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 05:57:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52107.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.110) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 05:57:57 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 31733 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Apr 2008 05:57:57 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: i3VPzkMVM1l0xQFIXCmW7vh0T2Yt4l1BowCWrqVoKcWnTXTnlRfL.Et1pgof5p6a5kMNNKPkvzoHnmIRgEuqpMSJDbQY.LpBQFh2sBj3_Lnw2Tf.XiwIgzlR.Xeex6NNg5h_goJFsP8- X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52107.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 22:57:57 PDT Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 22:57:57 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8CA6D7B3003DCF8-F38-20BC@MBLK-M40.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <208158.30948.qm@web52107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.110 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=Z9V_dYOQkIvuhWPQOnDd12xqRc-E9ygP4X-MyT0gwcVgnoL96Q X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43545 Someone in the group made the comment that we are living in a democracy! Cass Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: What has democracy got to do with Theosophy? Chuck the heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 8:17 pm Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election Mention the word DEMOCRACY Cass Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: It's getting more and more interesting.? When do they start really throwing mud at each other? Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: MKR To: theos-L@yahoogroups.com; theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 7:04 am Subject: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election I just received the following from cyberspace. It makes interesting reading and you decide for yourself. mkr ============================================================== Dear Colleague, This is to inform you that I have received 14 nominations from General Secretaries etc, who represent a totality of 17,037 votes. Dr John Algeo has received 21 nominations, representing a totality of 10,685 votes. I think we need younger people to be in charge of the Society's work and that they have to stay in Adyar. Dr. Algeo who is around 78, does not like the climate here, nor can he leave the United States for more than a short time, in view of his wife's condition. I believe that if elected he intends to work largely from America through e-mail and video conversations. It is necessary to have the right candidates for the officers of the Theosophical Society. I believe that Mrs Linda Oliveira and her husband, and some members from Britain , etc., will be coming to Adyar shortly, to stay and work here. You know very well that since Col. H.S. Olcott, all Presidents have lived at Adyar, and this was not merely a matter of their convenience. Adyar has been considered as a Spiritual Centre. From here the work of the Society can best send forth the power and blessing of the Elder Brethren. Such programmes as the International Convention and the School of the Wisdom, which are features of Adyar attract many members from around the world. Many of these members are able to return to their lodges with a greater understanding of the purpose of the Society and the work of the Founders. In my view it would not be a good thing to have somebody live in the United States and run Adyar by proxy. Adyar should be maintained as a living Headquarters for reasons which are obvious to those who know the history of the Society. Yours fraternally, Radha Burnier [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Mvandertak@yahoo.com Tue Apr 15 23:19:58 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mvandertak@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 64230 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 06:19:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 06:19:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52601.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.204) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 06:19:57 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 55518 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Apr 2008 06:19:56 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 5kFhhoYVM1nJMOtp7lw2nktLkJETzKnMktkvpk2syrteqWdkgn5LD29s6qsKydZRUs1ln3ceGibaMayrtfcXUdrLvSBianlOCcf8Ez5cZCXZJ.ZPvrtPATYC0LNXW_f4PkdGA10- X-Received: from [82.217.39.103] by web52601.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:19:56 PDT Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:19:56 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <994186.26232.qm@web52105.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <518562.55428.qm@web52601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.204 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Martin Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=38276385; y=AxEXDFAsoIns1Vsmsm8riZxtoPXgL7i5iO8Be5Q2o1nMCbzWYw X-Yahoo-Profile: mvandertak X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43546 DEMON-CRAZY? --- Cass Silva wrote: > Mention the word DEMOCRACY > Cass > > Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > > It's getting more and more interesting.? > > When do they start really throwing mud at each > other? > > Chuck the Heretic > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > -----Original Message----- > From: MKR > To: theos-L@yahoogroups.com; > theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 7:04 am > Subject: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election > > I just received the following from cyberspace. It > makes interesting reading > and you decide for yourself. > > mkr > > ============================================================== > Dear Colleague, > > This is to inform you that I have received 14 > nominations from General > Secretaries etc, who represent a totality of 17,037 > votes. Dr John Algeo has > received 21 nominations, representing a totality of > 10,685 votes. > > I think we need younger people to be in charge of > the Society's work and > that they have to stay in Adyar. Dr. Algeo who is > around 78, does not like > the climate here, nor can he leave the United States > for more than a short > time, in view of his wife's condition. I believe > that if elected he intends > to work largely from America through e-mail and > video conversations. > > It is necessary to have the right candidates for the > officers of the > Theosophical Society. I believe that Mrs Linda > Oliveira and her husband, and > some members from Britain , etc., will be coming to > Adyar shortly, to stay > and work here. > > You know very well that since Col. H.S. Olcott, all > Presidents have lived at > Adyar, and this was not merely a matter of their > convenience. Adyar has been > considered as a Spiritual Centre. From here the work > of the Society can best > send forth the power and blessing of the Elder > Brethren. Such programmes as > the International Convention and the School of the > Wisdom, which are > features of Adyar attract many members from around > the world. Many of these > members are able to return to their lodges with a > greater understanding of > the purpose of the Society and the work of the > Founders. > > In my view it would not be a good thing to have > somebody live in the United > States and run Adyar by proxy. Adyar should be > maintained as a living > Headquarters for reasons which are obvious to those > who know the history of > the Society. > > Yours fraternally, > > Radha Burnier > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99
size=1>Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > "> Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From Mvandertak@yahoo.com Tue Apr 15 23:36:41 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mvandertak@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 3437 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 06:36:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 06:36:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52608.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.211) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 06:36:38 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 69363 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Apr 2008 06:36:37 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: EjyINjoVM1ktklfUgdLPa3HrWfODRWv8eLu218G.b_MxCz9SA3BNc4SkwXOMe12vX9.UviVJLXYNlGLpRk5Ynt_YRu45rlUsJ.karsmpTOa7gyTc0aTnx3OFdDH683tcjs980Ck- X-Received: from [82.217.39.103] by web52608.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:36:37 PDT Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:36:37 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <773754.74569.qm@web52108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <875728.68064.qm@web52608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.211 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Martin Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: The US Constitution - A Midsummer Nights Dream X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=38276385; y=pPdUl9uGtjcbDb8-v7EicEzbjrRmSsXUk_0Ti5kwZ3JC_cw1ZQ X-Yahoo-Profile: mvandertak X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43547 The world has already found the weak spot in both the Chinese and US society, thats why Nature roars so much in those countries... Another fact is the racial progress in humanity. The Asians are of Atlantean origin and so both doomed to make room for the next race after the Aryans, who on their turn will be wiped out as well when the time is there. Before a sun explodes at the end of its life it grows in mass, so does Asia and Karma does the rest. --- Cass Silva wrote: > Good point. So the world has to find the Chinese > achilles heal. > Cass > > Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > The Chinese would have eaten Ghandi for > lunch, emitted a large belch and gone on with what > they were doing.? In the 1950s a group of Chinese > decided to emulate Ghandi and the footage of the > soldiers going down the line of sitting protesters, > blowing out their brains with those big, old mausers > they used back then, was nothing if not instructive > in the inherint weakness of Ghandi's ideas as they > depend on the other side to play by the rules.? The > Chinese ain't the British.? They don't care. > > Now, if the Tibetans' mythologies have any truth in > them, a good hailstorm during the Olympics that > levels the game sites would be much more effective.? > And fun as well. > > Chuck the Heretic > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cass Silva > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 7:48 pm > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: The US Constitution - A > Midsummer Nights Dream > > Hi Frank, > On the bright side I do think some Americans are now > starting to wake up and are starting to realise that > the dream they thought existed only in America was > fully operational throughout Europe and Asia. I do > think the Chinese look at US humanitarianism as > hypocritical and ignore it. Can anyone answer the > question, "has Tibet improved, in economic terms > under the Chinese"? Yes, they are brutual to anyone > they consider "undesirable" and I triple kiss the > australian ground my feet are on, but if the > Tibetans, want to make any inroads, they need to do > what Ghandi did in India. Screaming Protestors add > fuel to the mess. > Cass > > Frank Reitemeyer wrote: > >Its even less of the right thing to be doing today > in a world that is > imbued with human rights, a movement that HPB played > a big role in > starting and the USA of today represents. > > Really? > Bernhard Shaw mocked about the Statue of Liberty, > that even he, who was > skilled about cant, had never such an idea. > > You in the USA were never free and - according to > all probabilities - will > never be free. > > You are behind the curtain under foreign rule. > > The reason for your low education - adults in the US > have an intellect of > European school boys, although we here face since > 1945 the US foreign rule > with descend of intellect and moral with every > decade - is, that you must > not develop enough mental power to get conscious of > your slave situation. > > You have a two party dictature, where one and the > same foreign rule behind > the curtain pulls the strings of both sides. > > It does not matter, if you vote or what you vote or > which actor plays the > role of exoteric US President or which party has the > majority. > > The foreign rule presents to you their actors and > they rule you in either > case. The constitution is toilet paper and has no > worth. > > The USA is a quasi communistic state, if we can use > in that case the term > (in HPB's sense) "state" for the robbery and terror > structure, which since > 200 years brings (together with the other rogue > England) enslavement, mental > and physical terror to millions of innocent people > all over the globe. > > The US military stands now in 120 nations of the > world to suppress their > human rights, the nations rights for their > svabhavas. > > A human life counts nothing for the rogues, which > rule the USA. > > They people in the USA not enough to eat, the have > no or insufficent health > care, no or insufficent pensions, they have no free > press, they can take > them their homes away and they are hire and fire > slaves on the job market > with maximal exploitation. > > Democracy is staged with fake elections and dummy > choices. You should study > Purucker on it. > > I feel compassion with you, because I see very well > (Germany, Europe, EU and > Nato being un-democratically under US foreign rule) > what it means to have > raised under such mental terror and brainwashing > ("you are free - just > believe it") in USA in schools, education, tv, press > without the chance to > have break out. Comparison and analysis is > *potentially* easier in Germany, > where we had several systems in short serial order. > OTOH, the average German > loves alien nations more than his own, while the > Anglo-Saxon says: "My home > is my castle", "Britannia rules the waves", > "Amercian way of life" and > "might for right" - so karma has adjusted the > changes in the end. > > I am therefore anti-American? > > No, I am pro America. Pro America of the founding > fathers, not the America > of FED, WW I, WW II and two hundred unjust US wars > of aggression since 1945, > including inside job 9-11. > > So, what are you going to say to China? > > Frank > > between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with > Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From Augoeides-222@comcast.net Wed Apr 16 01:02:01 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: augoeides-222@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 45922 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 08:01:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 08:01:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO QMTA04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net) (76.96.30.40) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 08:01:58 -0000 X-Received: from OMTA04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.35]) by QMTA04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id E7zk1Z0060lTkoCA400200; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:00:25 +0000 X-Received: from amailcenter14.comcast.net ([204.127.225.114]) by OMTA04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id E81y1Z0012Uj3bg8Q00000; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:01:58 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=mmGVKJCCr2cA:10 a=68KDloaPYbkA:10 a=nG4AUVl/d2FqB4X2cmki4A==:17 a=DKYFr7HqAAAA:8 a=Qq9yDEnz7nsqzcJkHccA:9 a=-JUbzf59vRneuTRRmKQA:7 a=ACw5mhgKI5Wl9B3OwV7aoFmODxYA:4 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=eclnhlvdpzkA:10 a=U8Ie8EnqySEA:10 a=rC2wZJ5BpNYA:10 a=ao4RW71Vw8YA:10 a=C35D7iIojSgA:10 a=xyszfA3AAAAA:8 a=CjxXgO3LAAAA:8 a=G_5s8neSAAAA:8 a=CF1WJvDbAAAA:8 a=A9Wz8ZYGT4QF7YMaY9cA:9 a=_8dfL32BKHenFpdnKT0A:7 a=0BRlPOIRx_dEMSsY4R5vz9tQYOIA:4 a=l1KeHmMDpNIA:10 a=2EYftMAY1P0A:10 a=rnjSDB93LHIA:10 a=jeN6Q-uZn2oA:10 a=syfC3iHSy1IA:10 a=37WNUvjkh6kA:10 X-Received: from [67.172.124.83] by amailcenter14.comcast.net; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:01:57 +0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:01:57 +0000 Message-Id: <041620080801.11156.4805B27500048C3E00002B942216538496CDCDCDD39C0A0B070A01099ABE@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 30 2007) X-Authenticated-Sender: QXVnb2VpZGVzLTIyMkBjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 76.96.30.40 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: The US Constitution - A Midsummer Nights Dream X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=314500470; y=pXtVGZNiOiXAHpmhTAkihn-tZkwNC6kvdWDzXH6L0OgqQDipzUAEjs-er4352f_k X-Yahoo-Profile: sessesgenbarpharanges Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43548 Chuck, Thats exactly correct! The item that allowed Ghandi to prevail was that----The British possessed Character and MoraltMorality was the singular weakness Ghandi exploited!! The brain strained pacifists never have that cognition! They need to actually read the real History of civilizations. John -------------- Original message -------------- From: Drpsionic@aol.com The Chinese would have eaten Ghandi for lunch, emitted a large belch and gone on with what they were doing.? In the 1950s a group of Chinese decided to emulate Ghandi and the footage of the soldiers going down the line of sitting protesters, blowing out their brains with those big, old mausers they used back then, was nothing if not instructive in the inherint weakness of Ghandi's ideas as they depend on the other side to play by the rules.? The Chinese ain't the British.? They don't care. Now, if the Tibetans' mythologies have any truth in them, a good hailstorm during the Olympics that levels the game sites would be much more effective.? And fun as well. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 7:48 pm Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: The US Constitution - A Midsummer Nights Dream Hi Frank, On the bright side I do think some Americans are now starting to wake up and are starting to realise that the dream they thought existed only in America was fully operational throughout Europe and Asia. I do think the Chinese look at US humanitarianism as hypocritical and ignore it. Can anyone answer the question, "has Tibet improved, in economic terms under the Chinese"? Yes, they are brutual to anyone they consider "undesirable" and I triple kiss the australian ground my feet are on, but if the Tibetans, want to make any inroads, they need to do what Ghandi did in India. Screaming Protestors add fuel to the mess. Cass Frank Reitemeyer wrote: >Its even less of the right thing to be doing today in a world that is imbued with human rights, a movement that HPB played a big role in starting and the USA of today represents. Really? Bernhard Shaw mocked about the Statue of Liberty, that even he, who was skilled about cant, had never such an idea. You in the USA were never free and - according to all probabilities - will never be free. You are behind the curtain under foreign rule. The reason for your low education - adults in the US have an intellect of European school boys, although we here face since 1945 the US foreign rule with descend of intellect and moral with every decade - is, that you must not develop enough mental power to get conscious of your slave situation. You have a two party dictature, where one and the same foreign rule behind the curtain pulls the strings of both sides. It does not matter, if you vote or what you vote or which actor plays the role of exoteric US President or which party has the majority. The foreign rule presents to you their actors and they rule you in either case. The constitution is toilet paper and has no worth. The USA is a quasi communistic state, if we can use in that case the term (in HPB's sense) "state" for the robbery and terror structure, which since 200 years brings (together with the other rogue England) enslavement, mental and physical terror to millions of innocent people all over the globe. The US military stands now in 120 nations of the world to suppress their human rights, the nations rights for their svabhavas. A human life counts nothing for the rogues, which rule the USA. They people in the USA not enough to eat, the have no or insufficent health care, no or insufficent pensions, they have no free press, they can take them their homes away and they are hire and fire slaves on the job market with maximal exploitation. Democracy is staged with fake elections and dummy choices. You should study Purucker on it. I feel compassion with you, because I see very well (Germany, Europe, EU and Nato being un-democratically under US foreign rule) what it means to have raised under such mental terror and brainwashing ("you are free - just believe it") in USA in schools, education, tv, press without the chance to have break out. Comparison and analysis is *potentially* easier in Germany, where we had several systems in short serial order. OTOH, the average German loves alien nations more than his own, while the Anglo-Saxon says: "My home is my castle", "Britannia rules the waves", "Amercian way of life" and "might for right" - so karma has adjusted the changes in the end. I am therefore anti-American? No, I am pro America. Pro America of the founding fathers, not the America of FED, WW I, WW II and two hundred unjust US wars of aggression since 1945, including inside job 9-11. So, what are you going to say to China? Frank between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From anton_rozman@yahoo.com Wed Apr 16 02:11:16 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: anton_rozman@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 30505 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 09:11:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 09:11:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n18.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.102.101) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 09:11:13 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.88] by n18.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Apr 2008 09:11:13 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t4.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Apr 2008 09:11:13 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Apr 2008 09:11:12 -0000 Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:11:11 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <8CA6D7B3003DCF8-F38-20BC@MBLK-M40.sysops.aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.102.101 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 82.192.56.78 From: "Anton Rozman" Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=192242904; y=VoBoaeZg_jqlC8gYhI1RtVuKAfR2YgYNYnkQwy-jKB2q0yLE5x_9 X-Yahoo-Profile: anton_rozman X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43549 >What has democracy got to do with Theosophy?< Not much, but it should have much to do with the Theosophical Society. Anton --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Drpsionic@... wrote: > > What has democracy got to do with Theosophy? >=20 > Chuck the heretic >=20 >=20 > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Cass Silva > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 8:17 pm > Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Mention the word DEMOCRACY > Cass >=20 > Drpsionic@... wrote: >=20 > It's getting more and more interesting.?=20 >=20 > When do they start really throwing mud at each other? >=20 > Chuck the Heretic >=20 > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: MKR > To: theos-L@yahoogroups.com; theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 7:04 am > Subject: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election >=20 > I just received the following from cyberspace. It makes interesting=20 reading > and you decide for yourself. >=20 > mkr >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Dear Colleague, >=20 > This is to inform you that I have received 14 nominations from=20 General > Secretaries etc, who represent a totality of 17,037 votes. Dr John=20 Algeo has > received 21 nominations, representing a totality of 10,685 votes. >=20 > I think we need younger people to be in charge of the Society's=20 work and > that they have to stay in Adyar. Dr. Algeo who is around 78, does=20 not like > the climate here, nor can he leave the United States for more than=20 a short > time, in view of his wife's condition. I believe that if elected he=20 intends > to work largely from America through e-mail and video conversations. >=20 > It is necessary to have the right candidates for the officers of the > Theosophical Society. I believe that Mrs Linda Oliveira and her=20 husband, and > some members from Britain , etc., will be coming to Adyar shortly,=20 to stay > and work here. >=20 > You know very well that since Col. H.S. Olcott, all Presidents have=20 lived at > Adyar, and this was not merely a matter of their convenience. Adyar=20 has been > considered as a Spiritual Centre. From here the work of the Society=20 can best > send forth the power and blessing of the Elder Brethren. Such=20 programmes as > the International Convention and the School of the Wisdom, which are > features of Adyar attract many members from around the world. Many=20 of these > members are able to return to their lodges with a greater=20 understanding of > the purpose of the Society and the work of the Founders. >=20 > In my view it would not be a good thing to have somebody live in=20 the United > States and run Adyar by proxy. Adyar should be maintained as a=20 living > Headquarters for reasons which are obvious to those who know the=20 history of > the Society. >=20 > Yours fraternally, >=20 > Radha Burnier >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >=20 > between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99
Be a better friend,=20 newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20=20 >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > From mkr777@gmail.com Wed Apr 16 06:32:24 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 47610 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 13:32:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 13:32:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wx-out-0506.google.com) (66.249.82.239) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 13:32:21 -0000 X-Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id h29so2068809wxd.13 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 06:32:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.33.13 with SMTP id g13mr2120ang.33.1208352740590; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 06:32:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 06:32:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:32:20 -0500 To: theos-L@yahoogroups.com, theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: X-Originating-IP: 66.249.82.239 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=6C1cA33Z8e8xJcdsnb7ClmlunlNMOeEZ1O68ZxvYGuVnqd_KcF8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43550 As a followup, when I mulled over the msg, we should be thankful for the letter, but for which we all would be in the dark about how Algeo seems to be planning to operate remotely from the USA. From day one of TS, the presidents have always lived and worked full time in adyar. Also, in the days of old when there was no Internet, the only source was the official publications which are controlled by the bureaucracy. Now we should thank Internet for being able to get info instantly across the world and we should all be thankful for whomsover sought to up it up in the cyberspace. Some of us in the USA, prior to seeing this letter from Radha Burnier, got a letter from the national president in her personal capacity and it did brought up the issue of Radha's health only. It did not say anything about the age of Algeo or how robust his physical and mental health are and how he is planning to remote operate the presidency. In the political elections in the USA, the transparency of the health of the candidates is paramount and that is why TV shows the candidates jogging etc. If Algeo plans to operate from the US remotely, then it looks to me like as they say he wants to have the cake as well as eat it. Let us see if the voting members feel very desperate to have him lead the organization on his terms. Also there was a mention in another msg about the website with his background detaling his masonic activities one wonders why this is relevant since masonic is supposed to be unconnected with the society. Also, it is my recollection that in his younger days he was being trained for priesthood in the catholic church and I see no mention of this in the website. Can someone who knows, clarify this issue. If it is true, then it may be seen as an advantage or disadvantage in a candidate. One thing for sure, the vatican has honed its tricks and techniques over a long time and i am sure they teach all of them during the training of priests. My additional 0.02. mkr On 4/15/08, MKR wrote: > > I just received the following from cyberspace. It makes interesting > reading > and you decide for yourself. > > mkr > > ============================================================== > Dear Colleague, > > This is to inform you that I have received 14 nominations from General > Secretaries etc, who represent a totality of 17,037 votes. Dr John Algeo > has > received 21 nominations, representing a totality of 10,685 votes. > > I think we need younger people to be in charge of the Society's work and > that they have to stay in Adyar. Dr. Algeo who is around 78, does not like > the climate here, nor can he leave the United States for more than a short > time, in view of his wife's condition. I believe that if elected he > intends > to work largely from America through e-mail and video conversations. > > It is necessary to have the right candidates for the officers of the > Theosophical Society. I believe that Mrs Linda Oliveira and her husband, > and > some members from Britain , etc., will be coming to Adyar shortly, to stay > and work here. > > You know very well that since Col. H.S. Olcott, all Presidents have lived > at > Adyar, and this was not merely a matter of their convenience. Adyar has > been > considered as a Spiritual Centre. From here the work of the Society can > best > send forth the power and blessing of the Elder Brethren. Such programmes > as > the International Convention and the School of the Wisdom, which are > features of Adyar attract many members from around the world. Many of > these > members are able to return to their lodges with a greater understanding of > the purpose of the Society and the work of the Founders. > > In my view it would not be a good thing to have somebody live in the > United > States and run Adyar by proxy. Adyar should be maintained as a living > Headquarters for reasons which are obvious to those who know the history > of > the Society. > > Yours fraternally, > > Radha Burnier > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pecorellageraldine@yahoo.com Wed Apr 16 07:23:01 2008 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 42423 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 14:22:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 14:22:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.218) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 14:22:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Apr 2008 14:22:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Apr 2008 14:22:59 -0000 X-Sender: pecorellageraldine@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 56575 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2008 06:34:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Apr 2008 06:34:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web63713.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.97.98) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Apr 2008 06:34:38 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 893 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Apr 2008 06:34:38 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: aRFZ4ZYVM1kYW.yphvdJ6jvT0abJ9suJh5xTDDkgKEnOkHmUdq2g0J0Qm4nbDOFBniJn8GEszoF_.5vOOXa6SZcdDNypKSQxrDr4G3Tts9m5rHX2AOJGwNT8M.Z6rGUJAo2GZFxaw5t2de5PRUGUf_zIbw-- X-Received: from [74.78.49.198] by web63713.mail.re1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 07 Apr 2008 23:34:37 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/902.40 YahooMailWebService/0.7.185 Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 23:34:37 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <161279.98757.qm@web63713.mail.re1.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 69.147.97.98 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: geraldine pecorella Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Mahabharata on-line resource X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=307234721; y=jFgDimcHKSjslamGg2vw54rH2MnzxICE-IRtqwFwdylmDrgzu4oS9jimrKDx X-Yahoo-Profile: pecorellageraldine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: eldonbtucker via web; 16 Apr 2008 14:22:59 -0000 X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43551 ----- Original Message ---- From: Jayananda Hiranandani To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 7, 2008 8:08:48 PM Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Mahabharata on-line resource Dear Geraldine: I suggest the following. www.wikipedia. org Dr. Besant has written it as a book. It is "Mahabharata Story of the Great War". >From your email address, you seem to be Australia. I do not know in which part of Australia you are. You may try to find it one of of the T.S. Libraries. Also, you may wish to explore www.abebooks. com to buy a used copy. Thanks. Yours cordially, Jayananda H. Hiranandani nhcareyta wrote: Dear Geraldine Here is a link which might be of help: http://www.sacred- texts.com/ hin/maha/ index.htm Regards Nigel --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "geraldine pecorella" wrote: > > Dear Brothers& Sisters,Where is the best place to download stories of > the Mahabharata? > Thanks Geraldine > Dear N,I was able to find the Mahabharata used ,hard cover on e-bay and I'll order the Besante book for our group.City of Light Study Center is in Buffalo,New york we named ourselves after the 1901 Worlds Fair that was held here in Buffalo and it had the first large display of electric lights, from the old photos it was a spectecular event and at that very Fair President McKinley was asassinnated. Once again thanks for the imfo.In Love&Light Geri ------------ --------- --------- --- You rock. That's why Blockbuster' s offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Wed Apr 16 08:44:23 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 90994 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 15:44:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 15:44:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m21.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.2) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 15:44:21 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c6d.26b68815 (37061) for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:44:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from webmail-mf04 (webmail-mf04.webmail.aol.com [64.12.88.217]) by cia-db04.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB047-90c548061ec894; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:44:08 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:44:08 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 69.217.164.179 In-Reply-To: <817257.57393.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36012-STANDARD X-Received: from 69.217.164.179 by webmail-mf04.sysops.aol.com (64.12.88.217) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:44:08 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA6DEFD7D1D503-1610-F0A@webmail-mf04.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.2 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=qhOI5ftnLtubA3lmhczF7Yqt-x3CVmNb8ZXfu2MYjbpRoz-nhQ X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43552 It usually results in the police being called by the neighbors because they think a riot is going on. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 9:16 pm Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election The link didn't work Jokela, however, this 'power struggle' undermines the three principles of theosophy and says more about the 'personalities' of the candidates than they can imagine. The TS should be run by a committee, a round table, although I am starting to think that 10 theosophists in the same room would result in anarchy. Cass Jokela Petri wrote: Dear fellow Theosophist, I feel compelled to break the long standing prohibition against writing political letters during an election. Since Radha Burnier herself has now broken that tradition by sending out the letter given below to a number of our ranks, I do not have any qualms in feeling justified to respond to her blatant electioneering. I have always held Radha in great esteem and still honor her for her tireless and capable work for the Society. However, I have seen with my own eyes that her marvellous abilities are compromised to such an extent that I consider her not to be the best choice for the president and chief administrator of our organization. Her memory and clarity are inconsistent, sometimes right on, and sometimes far afield---as is the case for all of us when aging, especially by stroke, takes its toll. Because she has been such a wonderfully iron willed woman, she now apparently is mis- applying that iron will by trying to cling to an administrative roll that in my opinion is no longer best for the Society or best for her. I can see Radha maintaining a roll of leadership in the spiritual or inner side of things as a wise counsellor, functioning well without undue stress, but I view her continuation as the chief administrative officer for the Theosophical Society as counter productive. We need sharp clarity, consistency, and creative flexibility as we all work together to keep Theosophy alive and vital in the 21st century. We need strong leadership such as John Algeo could provide. As to her letter below, I will let it speak for itself, but I do have to say that I think the reference to age is ironic. Furthermore, it is presumptuous to indicate that John does not also have the capacity to bring in younger workers. And it is presumptuous to define his motives or to ascribe to him the intent to diminish the importance of Adyar as our international center, an action he has clearly stated he is against. If elected, John may not be able to spend all his time at Adyar, but I have experienced him as an able administrator and delegator, and feel assured that Adyar would flourish under his leadership. John has set up a web site http://www.jalgeo..com/ that you might want to see in order to help you decide for yourself. The upcoming election of international president of the Theosophical Society for the next 7 years is a critical one. Please consider carefully. With sincerity and all best wishes, Betty Bland, President The Theosophical Society in America between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Wed Apr 16 08:46:46 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 5419 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 15:46:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 15:46:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d23.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.137) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 15:46:44 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.bfa.114c26a5 (37055) for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:46:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from webmail-mf04 (webmail-mf04.webmail.aol.com [64.12.88.217]) by cia-db04.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB041-90bf48061f4c142; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:46:21 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:46:21 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 69.217.164.179 In-Reply-To: <208158.30948.qm@web52107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36012-STANDARD X-Received: from 69.217.164.179 by webmail-mf04.sysops.aol.com (64.12.88.217) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:46:21 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA6DF0270C9EAD-1610-F41@webmail-mf04.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.139.137 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=-7DJSkIOt_xN2EBC149iO1oiZGkXfKmZ5FIg0NWX8h1lYDDYKA X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43553 I missed that one, perhaps just as well.? There is nothing democratic about Theosophy, either in theory or organization. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:57 am Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election Someone in the group made the comment that we are living in a democracy! Cass Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: What has democracy got to do with Theosophy? Chuck the heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 8:17 pm Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election Mention the word DEMOCRACY Cass Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: It's getting more and more interesting.? When do they start really throwing mud at each other? Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: MKR To: theos-L@yahoogroups.com; theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 7:04 am Subject: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election I just received the following from cyberspace. It makes interesting reading and you decide for yourself. mkr ============================================================== Dear Colleague, This is to inform you that I have received 14 nominations from General Secretaries etc, who represent a totality of 17,037 votes. Dr John Algeo has received 21 nominations, representing a totality of 10,685 votes. I think we need younger people to be in charge of the Society's work and that they have to stay in Adyar. Dr. Algeo who is around 78, does not like the climate here, nor can he leave the United States for more than a short time, in view of his wife's condition. I believe that if elected he intends to work largely from America through e-mail and video conversations. It is necessary to have the right candidates for the officers of the Theosophical Society. I believe that Mrs Linda Oliveira and her husband, and some members from Britain , etc., will be coming to Adyar shortly, to stay and work here. You know very well that since Col. H.S. Olcott, all Presidents have lived at Adyar, and this was not merely a matter of their convenience. Adyar has been considered as a Spiritual Centre. From here the work of the Society can best send forth the power and blessing of the Elder Brethren. Such programmes as the International Convention and the School of the Wisdom, which are features of Adyar attract many members from around the world. Many of these members are able to return to their lodges with a greater understanding of the purpose of the Society and the work of the Founders. In my view it would not be a good thing to have somebody live in the United States and run Adyar by proxy. Adyar should be maintained as a living Headquarters for reasons which are obvious to those who know the history of the Society. Yours fraternally, Radha Burnier [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From adelasie@sbcglobal.net Wed Apr 16 08:53:24 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: adelasie@sbcglobal.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 30049 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 15:53:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 15:53:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO smtp122.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.95) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 15:53:23 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 56019 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 15:53:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.2?) (adelasie@sbcglobal.net@63.196.195.30 with login) by smtp122.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 15:53:23 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Jz3thQYVM1lyGG.gGBTMRY_A8UVE8oLuFs9bayg8StcidywB0_VCnUdGRjdupT4OSrkoos5UBLrrBSEdkxqrhXLyVz3GR6mWgtPfyh_ouucRqcxI2uKTqrm_dMQZ34nIVvh7BDyLCjU- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:53:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4805BE82.13270.254495D4@adelasie.sbcglobal.net> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <8CA6DF0270C9EAD-1610-F41@webmail-mf04.sysops.aol.com> References: <208158.30948.qm@web52107.mail.re2.yahoo.com>, <8CA6DF0270C9EAD-1610-F41@webmail-mf04.sysops.aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.95 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: "adelasie" Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=161282999 X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43554 Isn't Theosophy based primarily on Centralization, one Life, the Unity of all life? Isn't it based on compassion and forgiveness and acceptance and non-judgementalism? Isn't it based on cooperation and altruism? Doesn't theosophy say that democracy is not the best form of government, but just a karmic necessity of this cycle? That the ideal form of government is one leader fully supported, the wisest and kindest and best that can be found? I know! How about you, Chuck!! We would all be kept in stitches ROFLOAO and nobody would have time to snipe at each other...a true utopia.... Adelasie On 16 Apr 2008 at 11:46, Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > > I missed that one, perhaps just as well.? There is nothing democratic about Theosophy, either in theory or organization. > > > > Chuck the Heretic > > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > From mkr777@gmail.com Wed Apr 16 09:22:07 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 69459 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 16:22:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 16:22:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.249) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 16:22:04 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c38so685126ana.36 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:21:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.173.9 with SMTP id v9mr308693ane.39.1208362912526; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:21:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:21:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:21:52 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <4805BE82.13270.254495D4@adelasie.sbcglobal.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <208158.30948.qm@web52107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <8CA6DF0270C9EAD-1610-F41@webmail-mf04.sysops.aol.com> <4805BE82.13270.254495D4@adelasie.sbcglobal.net> X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.249 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=ouedZB50UJ19mO9EnKcMjLwc0rmz41RED08axZsVCnqCWE2Jgt0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43555 There are two aspects in connection with administration. On the one hand, the dissemination of the message of theosophy; on the other in many places the organization and its branches own very valuable properties and many devoted members have bequeathed money and properties to TS, which need to be protected. So the mixture of theosophy and the property and money makes the situation very complicated and invites politics etc. Also when you are in power, you are able to make and do things to make sure the followers toe the official line due to fear now or hearafter or one's livelihood if one has a job paid by the organization or by providing opportunites of sponsored as "official speaker/ lecturer". This is the situation that all organizations face sooner or later. Without Internet we may have never known of some of what we have learnt here about the elections and remote control management contemplated. mkr On 4/16/08, adelasie wrote: > > Isn't Theosophy based primarily on Centralization, one Life, the > Unity of all life? Isn't it based on compassion and forgiveness and > acceptance and non-judgementalism? Isn't it based on cooperation and > altruism? Doesn't theosophy say that democracy is not the best form > of government, but just a karmic necessity of this cycle? That the > ideal form of government is one leader fully supported, the wisest > and kindest and best that can be found? > > I know! How about you, Chuck!! We would all be kept in stitches > ROFLOAO and nobody would have time to snipe at each other...a true > utopia.... > > Adelasie > > On 16 Apr 2008 at 11:46, Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > > > > > I missed that one, perhaps just as well.? There is nothing democratic > about Theosophy, either in theory or organization. > > > > > > > > Chuck the Heretic > > > > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Mvandertak@yahoo.com Wed Apr 16 09:44:00 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mvandertak@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 85368 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 16:43:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 16:43:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52607.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.210) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 16:43:58 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 19590 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Apr 2008 16:43:57 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: KiNUNREVM1kjOZwTrZbyYYCuIMG6bMaalI3iMG1L6jiYcINY3fMaHD3dqHZV2Yytqw-- X-Received: from [82.217.39.103] by web52607.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:43:57 PDT Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:43:57 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8CA6DF0270C9EAD-1610-F41@webmail-mf04.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <390713.19140.qm@web52607.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.210 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Martin Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=38276385; y=r7ynwXIQlmdaJqkryOcBszQO6qRgrrqfT_i9YaeQUnystox4YA X-Yahoo-Profile: mvandertak X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43556 You are absolutely right. There is no democracy in the Universe either. Wheter you are a bum or a buddha, there is always another being telling you what to do, volunterely or by force of karma...Actally we live in a REAL dictatorship world. As long as you live in harmony with Nature you are fine, but don't dare to disharmonise...I had a thought as a child to make my own world, with its own laws etc. Ain't that funny :-) --- Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > > I missed that one, perhaps just as well.? There is > nothing democratic about Theosophy, either in theory > or organization. > > > > Chuck the Heretic > > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cass Silva > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:57 am > Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election > > > > > > > Someone in the group made the comment that we are > living in a democracy! > Cass > > Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > What has democracy got to do with Theosophy? > > Chuck the heretic > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cass Silva > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 8:17 pm > Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election > > Mention the word DEMOCRACY > Cass > > Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > > It's getting more and more interesting.? > > When do they start really throwing mud at each > other? > > Chuck the Heretic > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > -----Original Message----- > From: MKR > To: theos-L@yahoogroups.com; > theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 7:04 am > Subject: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election > > I just received the following from cyberspace. It > makes interesting reading > and you decide for yourself. > > mkr > > ============================================================== > Dear Colleague, > > This is to inform you that I have received 14 > nominations from General > Secretaries etc, who represent a totality of 17,037 > votes. Dr John Algeo has > received 21 nominations, representing a totality of > 10,685 votes. > > I think we need younger people to be in charge of > the Society's work and > that they have to stay in Adyar. Dr. Algeo who is > around 78, does not like > the climate here, nor can he leave the United States > for more than a short > time, in view of his wife's condition. I believe > that if elected he intends > to work largely from America through e-mail and > video conversations. > > It is necessary to have the right candidates for the > officers of the > Theosophical Society. I believe that Mrs Linda > Oliveira and her husband, and > some members from Britain , etc., will be coming to > Adyar shortly, to stay > and work here. > > You know very well that since Col. H.S. Olcott, all > Presidents have lived at > Adyar, and this was not merely a matter of their > convenience. Adyar has been > considered as a Spiritual Centre. From here the work > of the Society can best > send forth the power and blessing of the Elder > Brethren. Such programmes as > the International Convention and the School of the > Wisdom, which are > features of Adyar attract many members from around > the world. Many of these > members are able to return to their lodges with a > greater understanding of > the purpose of the Society and the work of the > Founders. > > In my view it would not be a good thing to have > somebody live in the United > States and run Adyar by proxy. Adyar should be > maintained as a living > Headquarters for reasons which are obvious to those > who know the history of > the Society. > > Yours fraternally, > > Radha Burnier > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99
Be a > better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with > Yahoo! Mobile. href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > "> Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From anton_rozman@yahoo.com Wed Apr 16 10:15:47 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: anton_rozman@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 10111 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 17:15:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 17:15:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n19b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.131) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 17:15:44 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n19.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Apr 2008 17:15:44 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Apr 2008 17:15:44 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Apr 2008 17:15:44 -0000 Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 17:15:44 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4805BE82.13270.254495D4@adelasie.sbcglobal.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.131 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 82.192.56.78 From: "Anton Rozman" Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=192242904; y=pjpgYHUgupzYTMhnfWUGg83o2CnKWaZp39qvSpsNLGrAWUnflWSh X-Yahoo-Profile: anton_rozman X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43557 Maybe the relation between Theosophy and the Theosophical Society can=20 be seen as the relation between Life and Form. And the Form - the=20 Theosophical Society is clearly defined by its Rules and Regulations=20 and Proceedings which have to be respected to assure that voice of=20 each individual member is heard, that the freedom of the Society and=20 freedom of thought is present and that the Theosophy can possibly=20 pour itself through it. The Form isn't perfect but it is the best and=20 the only one we have now at this given moment. It can really function=20 only when the rules of the game are respected. It is like in chess=20 where moves of pieces are strictly determined. If you want to move=20 the pieces arbitrarily you can possibly force the co-player to accept=20 your way of playing the game but you are not playing chess anymore. Best regards, Anton --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "adelasie" wrote: > > Isn't Theosophy based primarily on Centralization, one Life, the=20 > Unity of all life? Isn't it based on compassion and forgiveness and=20 > acceptance and non-judgementalism? Isn't it based on cooperation=20 and=20 > altruism? Doesn't theosophy say that democracy is not the best form=20 > of government, but just a karmic necessity of this cycle? That the=20 > ideal form of government is one leader fully supported, the wisest=20 > and kindest and best that can be found?=20 >=20 > I know! How about you, Chuck!! We would all be kept in stitches=20 > ROFLOAO and nobody would have time to snipe at each other...a true=20 > utopia.... >=20 > Adelasie >=20 > On 16 Apr 2008 at 11:46, Drpsionic@... wrote: >=20 > >=20 > > I missed that one, perhaps just as well.? There is nothing=20 democratic about Theosophy, either in theory or organization. > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > Chuck the Heretic > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano=20 > > > From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Wed Apr 16 12:45:35 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 33947 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 19:45:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 19:45:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mx04.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.14) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 19:45:32 -0000 X-Received: from 56341115.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.17.21] helo=khidr) by mx04.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1JmDZS-0001hW-2w for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 21:45:31 +0200 Message-ID: <000b01c89ffa$6ff337b0$15113456@khidr> To: Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 21:45:34 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.14 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" Subject: THE EASTERN GUPTA VIDYA AND THE KABALAH X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=k1XKJdBgQjgr2yIvtobBHfP8X6558R_LTa_n2ZCfLCaw X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43558 To all readers My views are: The following might help some of the students understand, various issues, w= hich some students are not ordinarily accostumed to due the culture they li= ve in. THE EASTERN GUPTA VIDY=C2 AND THE KABALAH=20 Vol 14 Page 167=20 THE EASTERN GUPTA VIDY=C2 AND THE KABALAH=20 We now return to the consideration of the essential identity between the Ea= stern Gupta-Vidy=E2 and the Kabalah as a system, while we must also show th= e dissimilarity in their philosophical interpretations since the Middle Age= s. It must be confessed that the views of the Kabalists--meaning by the word t= hose students of Occultism who study the Jewish Kabalah and who know little= , if anything, of any other Esoteric literature or of its teachings--are as= varied in their synthetic conclusions upon the nature of the mysteries tau= ght even in the Zohar alone, and are as wide of the true mark, as are the d= icta upon it of exact Science itself. Like the mediaeval Rosicrucian and th= e Alchemist--like the Abbot Trithemius, John Reuchlin, Agrippa, Paracelsus,= Robert Fludd, Philalethes, etc.--by whom they swear, the continental Occul= tists see in the Jewish Kabalah alone the universal well of wisdom; they fi= nd in it the secret lore of nearly all the mysteries of Nature--metaphysica= l and divine--some of them including herein, as did Reuchlin, those of the = Christian Bible. For them the Zohar is an Esoteric Thesaurus of all the mys= teries of the Christian Gospel; and the Sepher Yetz=EErah is the light that= shines in every darkness, and the container of the keys to open every secr= et in Nature. Whether many of our modern followers of the mediaeval Kabalis= ts have an idea of the real meaning of the symbology of their chosen Master= s is another question. Most of them have probably never given even a passin= g thought to Page 168 the fact that the Esoteric language used by the Alchemists was their own, a= nd that it was given out as a blind, necessitated by the dangers of the epo= ch they lived in, and not as the Mystery-language, used by the Pagan Initia= tes, which the Alchemists had re-translated and re-veiled once more. And now the situation stands thus: as the old Alchemists have not left a ke= y to their writings, the latter have become a mystery within an older myste= ry. The Kabalah is interpreted and checked only by the light which mediaeva= l Mystics have thrown upon it, and they, in their forced Christology, had t= o put a theological dogmatic mask on every ancient teaching, the result bei= ng that each Mystic among our modern European and American Kabalists interp= rets the old symbols in his own way, and each refers his opponents to the R= osicrucian and the Alchemist of three and four hundred years ago. Mystic Ch= ristian dogma is the central maelstrom that engulfs every old Pagan symbol,= and Christianity--Anti-Gnostic Christianity, the modern retort that has re= placed the alembic of the Alchemists--has distilled out of all recognition = the Kabalah, i. e., the Hebrew Zohar and other rabbinical mystic works. And= now it has come to this: The student interested in the Secret Sciences has= to believe that the whole cycle of the symbolical "Ancient of Days," every= hair of the mighty beard of Macroprosopus, refers only to the history of t= he earthly career of Jesus of Nazareth! And we are told that the Kabalah "w= as first taught to a select company of angels" by Jehovah himself--who, out= of modesty, one must think, made himself only the third Seph=EEr=F4th in i= t, and a female one into the bargain. So many Kabalists, so many explanatio= ns. Some believe -- perchance with more reason than the rest--that the subs= tance of the Kabalah is the basis upon which masonry is built, since modern= Masonry is undeniably the dim and hazy reflection of primeval Occult Mason= ry, of the teaching of those divine Masons who established the Mysteries of= the prehistoric and prediluvian Temples of Initiation, raised by truly sup= erhuman Builders. Others declare that the tenets expounded in the Zohar rel= ate merely to mysteries terrestrial and profane, having no more concern wit= h metaphysical speculations--such as the soul, or the post-mortem life of m= an--than have the Mosaic books. Others, again--and these are the real, genu= ine Kabalists, who=20 Page 169 had their instructions from initiated Jewish Rabbis--affirm that if the two= most learned Kabalists of the mediaeval period, John Reuchlin and Paracels= us, differed in their religious professions --the former being the Father o= f the Reformation and the latter a Roman Catholic, at least in appearance--= the Zohar cannot contain much of Christian dogma or tenet, one way or the o= ther. In other words, they maintain that the numerical language of the Kaba= listic works teaches universal truths--and not any one Religion in particul= ar. Those who make this statement are perfectly right in saying that the My= stery-language used in the Zohar and in other Kabalistic literature was onc= e, in a time of unfathomable antiquity, the universal language of Humanity.= But they become entirely wrong if to this fact they add the untenable theo= ry that this language was invented by, or was the original property of, the= Hebrews, from whom all the other nations borrowed it. They are wrong, because, although the Zohar ( , ZHR), The Book of Splendou= r of Rabbi Shimon ben-Yohai, did indeed originate with him--his son, Rabbi = Eleaz=E2r, helped by his secretary, Rabbi Abb=E2, compiling the Kabalistic = teachings of his deceased father into a work called the Zohar--those teachi= ngs were not Rabbi Shimon's, as the Gupta-Vidy=E2 shows. They are as old as= the Jewish nation itself, and far older. In short, the writings which pass= at present under the title of the Zohar of Rabbi Shimon are about as origi= nal as were the Egyptian synchronistic Tables after being handled by Eusebi= us, or as St. Paul's Epistles after their revision and correction by the "H= oly Church."* Let us throw a rapid retrospective glance at the history and ---------- * This is proved if we take but a single recorded instance. G. Pico della M= irandola, finding that there was more Christianity than Judaism in the Kaba= lah, and discovering in it the doctrines of the Trinity, the Incarnation, t= he Divinity of Jesus, etc., wound up his proofs of this with a challenge to= the world at large from Rome. As Christian D. Ginsburg shows ["as the resu= lt of his Kabbalistic studies Mirandola published, in 1486, when only twent= y-four years of age, nine hundred thesis, which were placarded in Rome, and= which he undertook to defend in the presence of all European scholars whom= he invited to the Eternal City, promising to defray their travelling expen= ses." (Page 206 of the 1974 reprint of Ginsburg's essays, The Essenes and T= he Kabbalah . . . See bibliography in the appendix of this volume.) --Compi= ler. ] ---------- Page 170 the tribulations of that very same Zohar, as we know of them from trustwort= hy tradition and documents. We need not stop to discuss whether it was writ= ten in the first century B.C. or in the first century A.D. Suffice it for u= s to know that there was at all times a Kabalistic literature among the Jew= s; that though historically it can be traced only from the time of the Capt= ivity, yet from the Pentateuch down to the Talmud the documents of that lit= erature were ever written in a kind of Mystery-language, were, in fact, a s= eries of symbolical records which the Jews had copied from the Egyptian and= the Chaldaean Sanctuaries, only adapting them to their own national histor= y--if history it can be called. Now that which we claim--and it is not deni= ed even by the most prejudiced Kabalist, is that although Kabalistic lore h= ad passed orally through long ages down to the latest pre-Christian Tannaim= , and although David and Solomon may have been great Adepts in it, as is cl= aimed, yet no one dared to write it down till the days of Shimon ben-Yohai.= In short, the lore found in Kabalistic literature was never recorded in wr= iting before the first century of the modern era. This brings the critic to the following reflection: While in India we find = the Vedas and the Br=E2hmanical literature written down and edited ages bef= ore the Christian era--the Orientalists themselves being obliged to concede= a couple of millenniums of antiquity to the older manuscripts; while the m= ost important allegories in Genesis are found recorded on Babylonian tiles = centuries B.C.; while the Egyptian sarcophagi yearly yield proofs of the or= igin of the doctrines borrowed and copied by the Jews; yet the Monotheism o= f the Jews is exalted and thrown into the teeth of all the Pagan nations, a= nd the so-called Christian Revelation is placed above all others, like the = sun above a row of street gas lamps. Yet it is perfectly well known, having= been ascertained beyond doubt or cavil, that no manuscript, whether Kabali= stic, Talmudistic, or Christian, which has reached our present generation, = is of earlier date than the first centuries of our era, whereas this can ce= rtainly never be said of the Egyptian papyri or the Chaldaean tiles, or eve= n of some Eastern writings. - - - - - - - - The People of the Secret and The Eight Sephirot of the Kabalah "The accepted modern authority on Jewry, The Jewish Encyclopaedia, declares that it came from Basra, as one of the treaties composing the Encyclopaedia of the Faithful Brethren published in 980 ! The statement seems unequivocal. "...The Faithful Brothers of Basra originated the eight elements which form God..." Then perhaps comes the clue to all the square pegs and round holes that have followed: "...changed by a Jewish philosopher in the middle of the 11th century into ten". "The People of the Secret" by Ernest Scott; page 76 - - - - - - - - M. Sufilight H. P. Blavatsky said:=20 "The Society founded to remedy the glaring evils of Christianity, to shun b= igotry and intolerance, cant and superstition and to cultivate real univers= al love extending even to the dumb brute".=20 (The Collected Writings of H. P. Blavatsky, vol. 7, p.246)=20 Master KH wrote in a Mahatma Letter:=20 For the opposition represents enormous vested interests, and they have enth= usiastic help from the Dugpas -- in Bhootan and the Vatican!=20 (Here is all of Mahtama Letter, No. 55. Dugpas are the same as selfish Magi= cians.)=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Wed Apr 16 14:38:04 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 20383 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 21:38:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 21:38:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.248) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 21:38:01 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c3so665581ana.5 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:38:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.95.19 with SMTP id s19mr885399anb.27.1208381881015; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:38:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:38:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 16:38:00 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4805BE82.13270.254495D4@adelasie.sbcglobal.net> X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.248 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=LB1BMf-_dSvyPda73QRr-oRGy0fu7O5QIc1vuo9KoR5dGK7JqGw Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43559 Theosophy is something personal and integral to everyone of us exposed to us. What we do with it or not is up to us. No one forces us to act unless we decide to do so. As for the organization, apart from all the rules, there are many things that rules cannot address and what creates issues is the money and property and the power over management and dispensation of the money and provide livelihood and the ability of doling out favors by way of giving a platform to write and speak, so long as you toe the official line. When the organization and the philosophy are combined, it produces a strange product which can be such that at times the actions are not conducive to the dissemination of philosophy. This seems to be one of the drawbacks which has stunted the growth of the membership. With all the loud talk about the achievements, the membership had negative growth in terms of the percentage of the world population and no one rarely talks about it. It is the individual members who, by their daily personal actions, contribute to the dissemination of theosophy rather than the organization and we all need to find ways to encourage everyone to find newer ways to do it. One such example is this e-mail llist which we all enjoy because of the effort and interest of one individual. The TSA during the Algeo leadership was not able to develop an active email list due to it being a (censored) moderated one, which simply shows that where organizations fail, individual efforts do succeed. So many of us like me do look to individual efforts in making theosophy accessible to world at large. mkr On 4/16/08, Anton Rozman wrote: > > Maybe the relation between Theosophy and the Theosophical Society can > be seen as the relation between Life and Form. And the Form - the > Theosophical Society is clearly defined by its Rules and Regulations > and Proceedings which have to be respected to assure that voice of > each individual member is heard, that the freedom of the Society and > freedom of thought is present and that the Theosophy can possibly > pour itself through it. The Form isn't perfect but it is the best and > the only one we have now at this given moment. It can really function > only when the rules of the game are respected. It is like in chess > where moves of pieces are strictly determined. If you want to move > the pieces arbitrarily you can possibly force the co-player to accept > your way of playing the game but you are not playing chess anymore. > > Best regards, > Anton > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com , > "adelasie" wrote: > > > > Isn't Theosophy based primarily on Centralization, one Life, the > > Unity of all life? Isn't it based on compassion and forgiveness and > > acceptance and non-judgementalism? Isn't it based on cooperation > and > > altruism? Doesn't theosophy say that democracy is not the best form > > of government, but just a karmic necessity of this cycle? That the > > ideal form of government is one leader fully supported, the wisest > > and kindest and best that can be found? > > > > I know! How about you, Chuck!! We would all be kept in stitches > > ROFLOAO and nobody would have time to snipe at each other...a true > > utopia.... > > > > Adelasie > > > > On 16 Apr 2008 at 11:46, Drpsionic@... wrote: > > > > > > > > I missed that one, perhaps just as well.? There is nothing > democratic about Theosophy, either in theory or organization. > > > > > > > > > > > > Chuck the Heretic > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From MarieMAJ41@aol.com Wed Apr 16 15:11:20 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: MarieMAJ41@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 45086 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 22:11:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 22:11:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m14.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.204) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 22:11:17 -0000 X-Received: from MarieMAJ41@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c34.2e5d98d0 (37034) for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:10:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from mblk-d38 (mblk-d38.mblk.aol.com [205.188.212.222]) by cia-db02.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB024-90aa4806795d155; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:10:38 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:10:37 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 24.7.215.159 In-Reply-To: <604192.1432.qm@web52104.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36012-STANDARD X-Received: from 24.7.215.159 by mblk-d38.sysops.aol.com (205.188.212.222) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:10:37 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA6E25D5561A31-1638-B4C@mblk-d38.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.138.204 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MarieMAJ41@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=90655958; y=CLdVULPr5h6uPl5QPa65ckyhIx5cyGzDyuTbFYT9cBmOHeUSBJ4 X-Yahoo-Profile: olgamarie41 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43560 Cass, John Algeo broke away from LeDroit Humaine and started his own masonic lodge. It was the only way that he could get the 33rd degree [that is my own opinion]. This is the reason for the masonic emphasis. Many people at the USA headquarters are members of this? masonic lodge. In fact, it is an international masonic lodge, with members from around the theosophical world, including India. Marie -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:42 am Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election Still can't find Rhada's letter. Interesting that the Freemasonry badge is part of JA's site. Cass Jokela Petri wrote: We have traditional proverb which says: stupidity tighten ups in groups. Here is he new link. Seems that there was one dot too much in between. http://www.jalgeo.com pj Cass Silva kirjoitti: > > The link didn't work Jokela, however, this 'power struggle' undermines > the three principles of theosophy and says more about the > 'personalities' of the candidates than they can imagine. The TS should > be run by a committee, a round table, although I am starting to think > that 10 theosophists in the same room would result in anarchy. > > Cass > > > > Jokela Petri > wrote: > Dear fellow Theosophist, > > I feel compelled to break the long standing prohibition against writing > political letters during an election. Since Radha Burnier herself has > now broken that tradition by sending out the letter given below to a > number of our ranks, I do not have any qualms in feeling justified to > respond to her blatant electioneering. > > I have always held Radha in great esteem and still honor her for her > tireless and capable work for the Society. However, I have seen with my > own eyes that her marvellous abilities are compromised to such an extent > that I consider her not to be the best choice for the president and > chief administrator of our organization. Her memory and clarity are > inconsistent, sometimes right on, and sometimes far afield---as is the > case for all of us > when aging, especially by stroke, takes its toll. Because she has been > such a wonderfully iron willed woman, she now apparently is mis- > applying that iron will by trying to cling to an administrative roll > that in my opinion is no longer best for the Society or best for her. > > I can see Radha maintaining a roll of leadership in the spiritual or > inner side of things as a wise counsellor, functioning well without > undue stress, but I view her continuation as the chief administrative > officer for the Theosophical Society as counter productive. We need > sharp clarity, consistency, and creative flexibility as we all work > together to keep Theosophy alive and vital in the 21st century. We need > strong leadership such as John Algeo could provide. > > As to her letter below, I will let it speak for itself, but I do have to > say that I think the reference to age is ironic. Furthermore, it is > presumptuous to indicate that John does not also have the capacity to > bring in younger workers. And it is presumptuous to define his motives > or to ascribe to him the intent to diminish the importance of Adyar as > our international center, an action he has clearly stated he is against. > If elected, John may not be able to spend all his time at Adyar, but I > have experienced him as an able administrator and delegator, and feel > assured that Adyar would flourish under his leadership. > > John has set up a web site http://www.jalgeo..com/ > that you might want > to see in order to help you decide for yourself. > The upcoming election of international president of the Theosophical > Society for the next 7 years is a critical one. Please consider carefully. > With sincerity and all best wishes, > > Betty Bland, President > The Theosophical Society in America > > between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99
Be a better friend, > newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > "> Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Wed Apr 16 16:35:29 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 67489 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 23:35:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 23:35:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m28.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.9) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 23:35:26 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d34.2421c4fe (37115) for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:34:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from WEBMAIL-MA20 (webmail-ma20.webmail.aol.com [64.12.88.84]) by cia-ma01.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMA011-90fb48068d1039d; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:34:40 -0400 References: <208158.30948.qm@web52107.mail.re2.yahoo.com>, <8CA6DF0270C9EAD-1610-F41@webmail-mf04.sysops.aol.com> <4805BE82.13270.254495D4@adelasie.sbcglobal.net> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:34:41 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 69.217.164.179 In-Reply-To: <4805BE82.13270.254495D4@adelasie.sbcglobal.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36012-STANDARD X-Received: from 69.217.164.179 by WEBMAIL-MA20.sysops.aol.com (64.12.88.84) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:34:41 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA6E3193E759CE-96C-26C9@WEBMAIL-MA20.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.9 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=zFKi_gXQOKxL_r-GZv_sJ__5J6IbZnFgC-VMPKvIITiuVxCT3Q X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43561 To quote General Sherman, "If nominated I will not run.? If elected I will not serve."? Lots of years ago, there was a lecture at Olcott about something and in a discussion group afterwards, someone asked what would be the appropriate reincarnation for Hitler.? I answered that it would be the same for any dictator, to be President of the TS, an office with no power and little respect.? And everyone mad at you all the time. Chuck the heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: adelasie To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:53 am Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election Isn't Theosophy based primarily on Centralization, one Life, the Unity of all life? Isn't it based on compassion and forgiveness and acceptance and non-judgementalism? Isn't it based on cooperation and altruism? Doesn't theosophy say that democracy is not the best form of government, but just a karmic necessity of this cycle? That the ideal form of government is one leader fully supported, the wisest and kindest and best that can be found? I know! How about you, Chuck!! We would all be kept in stitches ROFLOAO and nobody would have time to snipe at each other...a true utopia.... Adelasie On 16 Apr 2008 at 11:46, Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > > I missed that one, perhaps just as well.? There is nothing democratic about Theosophy, either in theory or organization. > > > > Chuck the Heretic > > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Wed Apr 16 16:39:42 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 29077 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2008 23:39:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Apr 2008 23:39:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m24.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.5) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Apr 2008 23:39:41 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d30.2b6b6ff7 (37166) for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:39:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from WEBMAIL-MA20 (webmail-ma20.webmail.aol.com [64.12.88.84]) by cia-ma04.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMA045-912e48068e313df; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:39:29 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:39:29 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 69.217.164.179 In-Reply-To: <8CA6E25D5561A31-1638-B4C@mblk-d38.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36012-STANDARD X-Received: from 69.217.164.179 by WEBMAIL-MA20.sysops.aol.com (64.12.88.84) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:39:29 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA6E323FEC63C2-96C-2709@WEBMAIL-MA20.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.5 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=YNmbDNdk3WXvqQ-7ogx6wVGJBJPN6SEp9PGUGPjDkFlhWobfoA X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43562 He started his own?? Good for him!? I like people who do that sort of thing. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: MarieMAJ41@aol.com To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 5:10 pm Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election Cass, John Algeo broke away from LeDroit Humaine and started his own masonic lodge. It was the only way that he could get the 33rd degree [that is my own opinion]. This is the reason for the masonic emphasis. Many people at the USA headquarters are members of this? masonic lodge. In fact, it is an international masonic lodge, with members from around the theosophical world, including India. Marie -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:42 am Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election Still can't find Rhada's letter. Interesting that the Freemasonry badge is part of JA's site. Cass Jokela Petri wrote: We have traditional proverb which says: stupidity tighten ups in groups. Here is he new link. Seems that there was one dot too much in between. http://www.jalgeo.com pj Cass Silva kirjoitti: > > The link didn't work Jokela, however, this 'power struggle' undermines > the three principles of theosophy and says more about the > 'personalities' of the candidates than they can imagine. The TS should > be run by a committee, a round table, although I am starting to think > that 10 theosophists in the same room would result in anarchy. > > Cass > > > > Jokela Petri > wrote: > Dear fellow Theosophist, > > I feel compelled to break the long standing prohibition against writing > political letters during an election. Since Radha Burnier herself has > now broken that tradition by sending out the letter given below to a > number of our ranks, I do not have any qualms in feeling justified to > respond to her blatant electioneering. > > I have always held Radha in great esteem and still honor her for her > tireless and capable work for the Society. However, I have seen with my > own eyes that her marvellous abilities are compromised to such an extent > that I consider her not to be the best choice for the president and > chief administrator of our organization. Her memory and clarity are > inconsistent, sometimes right on, and sometimes far afield---as is the > case for all of us > when aging, especially by stroke, takes its toll. Because she has been > such a wonderfully iron willed woman, she now apparently is mis- > applying that iron will by trying to cling to an administrative roll > that in my opinion is no longer best for the Society or best for her. > > I can see Radha maintaining a roll of leadership in the spiritual or > inner side of things as a wise counsellor, functioning well without > undue stress, but I view her continuation as the chief administrative > officer for the Theosophical Society as counter productive. We need > sharp clarity, consistency, and creative flexibility as we all work > together to keep Theosophy alive and vital in the 21st century. We need > strong leadership such as John Algeo could provide. > > As to her letter below, I will let it speak for itself, but I do have to > say that I think the reference to age is ironic. Furthermore, it is > presumptuous to indicate that John does not also have the capacity to > bring in younger workers. And it is presumptuous to define his motives > or to ascribe to him the intent to diminish the importance of Adyar as > our international center, an action he has clearly stated he is against. > If elected, John may not be able to spend all his time at Adyar, but I > have experienced him as an able administrator and delegator, and feel > assured that Adyar would flourish under his leadership. > > John has set up a web site http://www.jalgeo..com/ > that you might want > to see in order to help you decide for yourself. > The upcoming election of international president of the Theosophical > Society for the next 7 years is a critical one. Please consider carefully. > With sincerity and all best wishes, > > Betty Bland, President > The Theosophical Society in America > > between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99
Be a better friend, > newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > "> Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Wed Apr 16 18:19:09 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 34285 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2008 01:19:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2008 01:19:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.104) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2008 01:19:07 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 207 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Apr 2008 01:19:06 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: DtNq8ncVM1lkrTuCy90iRTxB0dFS0yKmtFqMd3EQH_3Prcr5xTYte1GeD5Z5CTzXHg-- X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:19:06 PDT Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:19:06 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8CA6E25D5561A31-1638-B4C@mblk-d38.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <503249.99791.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.104 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=KPOQYo1f2fyVFylgeDhy-MAadZ8S3tVo58krP50UCIuiLb5BGg X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43563 Seems pointless, what is the advantage of being a 33 degree Mason when HPB provided the ancient truths which HPB stated Freemasonry had lost? Thanks for your response Cass MarieMAJ41@aol.com wrote: Cass, John Algeo broke away from LeDroit Humaine and started his own masonic lodge. It was the only way that he could get the 33rd degree [that is my own opinion]. This is the reason for the masonic emphasis. Many people at the USA headquarters are members of this? masonic lodge. In fact, it is an international masonic lodge, with members from around the theosophical world, including India. Marie -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:42 am Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election Still can't find Rhada's letter. Interesting that the Freemasonry badge is part of JA's site. Cass Jokela Petri wrote: We have traditional proverb which says: stupidity tighten ups in groups. Here is he new link. Seems that there was one dot too much in between. http://www.jalgeo.com pj Cass Silva kirjoitti: > > The link didn't work Jokela, however, this 'power struggle' undermines > the three principles of theosophy and says more about the > 'personalities' of the candidates than they can imagine. The TS should > be run by a committee, a round table, although I am starting to think > that 10 theosophists in the same room would result in anarchy. > > Cass > > > > Jokela Petri > wrote: > Dear fellow Theosophist, > > I feel compelled to break the long standing prohibition against writing > political letters during an election. Since Radha Burnier herself has > now broken that tradition by sending out the letter given below to a > number of our ranks, I do not have any qualms in feeling justified to > respond to her blatant electioneering. > > I have always held Radha in great esteem and still honor her for her > tireless and capable work for the Society. However, I have seen with my > own eyes that her marvellous abilities are compromised to such an extent > that I consider her not to be the best choice for the president and > chief administrator of our organization. Her memory and clarity are > inconsistent, sometimes right on, and sometimes far afield---as is the > case for all of us > when aging, especially by stroke, takes its toll. Because she has been > such a wonderfully iron willed woman, she now apparently is mis- > applying that iron will by trying to cling to an administrative roll > that in my opinion is no longer best for the Society or best for her. > > I can see Radha maintaining a roll of leadership in the spiritual or > inner side of things as a wise counsellor, functioning well without > undue stress, but I view her continuation as the chief administrative > officer for the Theosophical Society as counter productive. We need > sharp clarity, consistency, and creative flexibility as we all work > together to keep Theosophy alive and vital in the 21st century. We need > strong leadership such as John Algeo could provide. > > As to her letter below, I will let it speak for itself, but I do have to > say that I think the reference to age is ironic. Furthermore, it is > presumptuous to indicate that John does not also have the capacity to > bring in younger workers. And it is presumptuous to define his motives > or to ascribe to him the intent to diminish the importance of Adyar as > our international center, an action he has clearly stated he is against. > If elected, John may not be able to spend all his time at Adyar, but I > have experienced him as an able administrator and delegator, and feel > assured that Adyar would flourish under his leadership. > > John has set up a web site http://www.jalgeo..com/ > that you might want > to see in order to help you decide for yourself. > The upcoming election of international president of the Theosophical > Society for the next 7 years is a critical one. Please consider carefully. > With sincerity and all best wishes, > > Betty Bland, President > The Theosophical Society in America > > between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99
Be a better friend, > newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > "> Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Wed Apr 16 19:22:41 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 40156 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2008 02:22:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2008 02:22:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52111.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.114) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2008 02:22:38 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 98485 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Apr 2008 02:22:38 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: lIQ1uiIVM1laJjInJVzb77ff0Y7RurSrJZNjoNX_Mp4oGzFy5imdEJeuo_ifrL4nNqt3Kyjkz4jqOmtP2nzDdnjmqY4Ke0J2YfeBahZ0gZvA1qwMf.EwNFs.2givpbfZM8.YgcJOo0g- X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52111.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:22:38 PDT Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:22:38 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <390713.19140.qm@web52607.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <342911.98162.qm@web52111.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.114 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=PCIo4pFbXpFmzaz31ptcWq8MgjPlH6o3qJW0eAfiX9vw60a6RA X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43564 Had a chuckle Martin. As far as creating your own world, you couldn't possibly do any worse than those that preceded you. Cass Martin wrote: You are absolutely right. There is no democracy in the Universe either. Wheter you are a bum or a buddha, there is always another being telling you what to do, volunterely or by force of karma...Actally we live in a REAL dictatorship world. As long as you live in harmony with Nature you are fine, but don't dare to disharmonise...I had a thought as a child to make my own world, with its own laws etc. Ain't that funny :-) --- Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > > I missed that one, perhaps just as well.? There is > nothing democratic about Theosophy, either in theory > or organization. > > > > Chuck the Heretic > > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cass Silva > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:57 am > Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election > > > > > > > Someone in the group made the comment that we are > living in a democracy! > Cass > > Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > What has democracy got to do with Theosophy? > > Chuck the heretic > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cass Silva > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 8:17 pm > Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election > > Mention the word DEMOCRACY > Cass > > Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > > It's getting more and more interesting.? > > When do they start really throwing mud at each > other? > > Chuck the Heretic > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > -----Original Message----- > From: MKR > To: theos-L@yahoogroups.com; > theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 7:04 am > Subject: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election > > I just received the following from cyberspace. It > makes interesting reading > and you decide for yourself. > > mkr > > ============================================================== > Dear Colleague, > > This is to inform you that I have received 14 > nominations from General > Secretaries etc, who represent a totality of 17,037 > votes. Dr John Algeo has > received 21 nominations, representing a totality of > 10,685 votes. > > I think we need younger people to be in charge of > the Society's work and > that they have to stay in Adyar. Dr. Algeo who is > around 78, does not like > the climate here, nor can he leave the United States > for more than a short > time, in view of his wife's condition. I believe > that if elected he intends > to work largely from America through e-mail and > video conversations. > > It is necessary to have the right candidates for the > officers of the > Theosophical Society. I believe that Mrs Linda > Oliveira and her husband, and > some members from Britain , etc., will be coming to > Adyar shortly, to stay > and work here. > > You know very well that since Col. H.S. Olcott, all > Presidents have lived at > Adyar, and this was not merely a matter of their > convenience. Adyar has been > considered as a Spiritual Centre. From here the work > of the Society can best > send forth the power and blessing of the Elder > Brethren. Such programmes as > the International Convention and the School of the > Wisdom, which are > features of Adyar attract many members from around > the world. Many of these > members are able to return to their lodges with a > greater understanding of > the purpose of the Society and the work of the > Founders. > > In my view it would not be a good thing to have > somebody live in the United > States and run Adyar by proxy. Adyar should be > maintained as a living > Headquarters for reasons which are obvious to those > who know the history of > the Society. > > Yours fraternally, > > Radha Burnier > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99
Be a > better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with > Yahoo! Mobile. href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > "> Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > __________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Wed Apr 16 19:24:41 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 91754 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2008 02:24:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2008 02:24:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.104) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2008 02:24:40 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 48945 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Apr 2008 02:24:36 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: lOsINkEVM1lPHHO0TQFL8P84QWzdu2NAXE596VE4x19uI6n9AxGnb2sZv17_MT0LgHWBvNWGaid4Tdn73fZqRqxJZAtTOWMrxp1EASaOFv6cHK5Y5gYNJRgGkG4sO6iVXDyOBnptBa46mRxCgKzDKUaEDHxW1x6pqtxYSbKNhNQHPxwFH_K9O0ZBVD0HR2xuRwWmHnkFEK29ZJ7vRp2oBNiPA7prd0XSYidf.vlrAKU7cUYSGs0cC4TS X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:24:36 PDT Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:24:36 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <851848.47836.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.104 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=L_INHzDOeW-w6CiJPFisM94sloyGfZfTow5KsxJoHDEO7UNZwg X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43565 I don't know Morten, but I wouldn't mind a couple of years on the Adyar lawns while administrators take care of the day to day running of the organization. Cass MKR wrote: Theosophy is something personal and integral to everyone of us exposed to us. What we do with it or not is up to us. No one forces us to act unless we decide to do so. As for the organization, apart from all the rules, there are many things that rules cannot address and what creates issues is the money and property and the power over management and dispensation of the money and provide livelihood and the ability of doling out favors by way of giving a platform to write and speak, so long as you toe the official line. When the organization and the philosophy are combined, it produces a strange product which can be such that at times the actions are not conducive to the dissemination of philosophy. This seems to be one of the drawbacks which has stunted the growth of the membership. With all the loud talk about the achievements, the membership had negative growth in terms of the percentage of the world population and no one rarely talks about it. It is the individual members who, by their daily personal actions, contribute to the dissemination of theosophy rather than the organization and we all need to find ways to encourage everyone to find newer ways to do it. One such example is this e-mail llist which we all enjoy because of the effort and interest of one individual. The TSA during the Algeo leadership was not able to develop an active email list due to it being a (censored) moderated one, which simply shows that where organizations fail, individual efforts do succeed. So many of us like me do look to individual efforts in making theosophy accessible to world at large. mkr On 4/16/08, Anton Rozman wrote: > > Maybe the relation between Theosophy and the Theosophical Society can > be seen as the relation between Life and Form. And the Form - the > Theosophical Society is clearly defined by its Rules and Regulations > and Proceedings which have to be respected to assure that voice of > each individual member is heard, that the freedom of the Society and > freedom of thought is present and that the Theosophy can possibly > pour itself through it. The Form isn't perfect but it is the best and > the only one we have now at this given moment. It can really function > only when the rules of the game are respected. It is like in chess > where moves of pieces are strictly determined. If you want to move > the pieces arbitrarily you can possibly force the co-player to accept > your way of playing the game but you are not playing chess anymore. > > Best regards, > Anton > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com , > "adelasie" wrote: > > > > Isn't Theosophy based primarily on Centralization, one Life, the > > Unity of all life? Isn't it based on compassion and forgiveness and > > acceptance and non-judgementalism? Isn't it based on cooperation > and > > altruism? Doesn't theosophy say that democracy is not the best form > > of government, but just a karmic necessity of this cycle? That the > > ideal form of government is one leader fully supported, the wisest > > and kindest and best that can be found? > > > > I know! How about you, Chuck!! We would all be kept in stitches > > ROFLOAO and nobody would have time to snipe at each other...a true > > utopia.... > > > > Adelasie > > > > On 16 Apr 2008 at 11:46, Drpsionic@... wrote: > > > > > > > > I missed that one, perhaps just as well.? There is nothing > democratic about Theosophy, either in theory or organization. > > > > > > > > > > > > Chuck the Heretic > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Wed Apr 16 19:28:43 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 17481 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2008 02:28:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2008 02:28:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO hs-out-0708.google.com) (64.233.178.243) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2008 02:28:42 -0000 X-Received: by hs-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id j58so1258719hsj.7 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:28:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.152.19 with SMTP id z19mr1377585and.80.1208399321874; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:28:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:28:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 21:28:41 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <503249.99791.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8CA6E25D5561A31-1638-B4C@mblk-d38.sysops.aol.com> <503249.99791.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 64.233.178.243 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=OMX_2uKWgGIQ6Fend6q4_VrggJTrqJCbI7n4HpT5hj-cj-hMHjI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43566 You are on the right track. It is a simple attempt to influence those TS members who are sympathetic to the masonic organization to support the candidature or else why is it mentioned. There is another more fundamental issue from a theosophist's point of view. All one needs to join the TS is to be in sympathy with the First Object -- Brotherhood and you sign in an application and no further question is asked except to check if you are a minor, in which case in many countries you need parent's consent. On the other hand there are other serious restrictions when one seeks admission to masonry. Anyone can google and find out how the admission process works in masonry and what the general restrictions are. So trying to show off the high masonry degree to impress voters is something voters need to very carefully look into, especially those who are committed to theosophical Brotherhood in its widest sense. I say this because I know there are long standing members of theosophy who have made immense contributions in their own low key way who will not be admitted into masonry. mkr On 4/16/08, Cass Silva wrote: > > Seems pointless, what is the advantage of being a 33 degree Mason when > HPB provided the ancient truths which HPB stated Freemasonry had lost? > Thanks for your response > > Cass > > MarieMAJ41@aol.com wrote: > Cass, John Algeo broke away from LeDroit Humaine and started his own > masonic lodge. It was the only way that he could get the 33rd degree [that > is my own opinion]. This is the reason for the masonic emphasis. Many people > at the USA headquarters are members of this? masonic lodge. In fact, it is > an international masonic lodge, with members from around the theosophical > world, including India. > > Marie > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cass Silva > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:42 am > Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election > > Still can't find Rhada's letter. Interesting that the Freemasonry badge is > part of JA's site. > Cass > > Jokela Petri > wrote: > We have traditional proverb which says: > stupidity tighten ups in groups. > > Here is he new link. Seems that there was one dot too much in between. > http://www.jalgeo.com > > pj > > Cass Silva kirjoitti: > > > > The link didn't work Jokela, however, this 'power struggle' undermines > > the three principles of theosophy and says more about the > > 'personalities' of the candidates than they can imagine. The TS should > > be run by a committee, a round table, although I am starting to think > > that 10 theosophists in the same room would result in anarchy. > > > > Cass > > > > > > > > Jokela Petri > > >> wrote: > > Dear fellow Theosophist, > > > > I feel compelled to break the long standing prohibition against writing > > political letters during an election. Since Radha Burnier herself has > > now broken that tradition by sending out the letter given below to a > > number of our ranks, I do not have any qualms in feeling justified to > > respond to her blatant electioneering. > > > > I have always held Radha in great esteem and still honor her for her > > tireless and capable work for the Society. However, I have seen with my > > own eyes that her marvellous abilities are compromised to such an extent > > that I consider her not to be the best choice for the president and > > chief administrator of our organization. Her memory and clarity are > > inconsistent, sometimes right on, and sometimes far afield---as is the > > case for all of us > > when aging, especially by stroke, takes its toll. Because she has been > > such a wonderfully iron willed woman, she now apparently is mis- > > applying that iron will by trying to cling to an administrative roll > > that in my opinion is no longer best for the Society or best for her. > > > > I can see Radha maintaining a roll of leadership in the spiritual or > > inner side of things as a wise counsellor, functioning well without > > undue stress, but I view her continuation as the chief administrative > > officer for the Theosophical Society as counter productive. We need > > sharp clarity, consistency, and creative flexibility as we all work > > together to keep Theosophy alive and vital in the 21st century. We need > > strong leadership such as John Algeo could provide. > > > > As to her letter below, I will let it speak for itself, but I do have to > > say that I think the reference to age is ironic. Furthermore, it is > > presumptuous to indicate that John does not also have the capacity to > > bring in younger workers. And it is presumptuous to define his motives > > or to ascribe to him the intent to diminish the importance of Adyar as > > our international center, an action he has clearly stated he is against. > > If elected, John may not be able to spend all his time at Adyar, but I > > have experienced him as an able administrator and delegator, and feel > > assured that Adyar would flourish under his leadership. > > > > John has set up a web site http://www.jalgeo..com/ > > that you might want > > to see in order to help you decide for yourself. > > The upcoming election of international president of the Theosophical > > Society for the next 7 years is a critical one. Please consider > carefully. > > With sincerity and all best wishes, > > > > Betty Bland, President > > The Theosophical Society in America > > > > between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99
Be a better friend, > > newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > href=" > http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > < > http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ> > > > "> Try it now. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Wed Apr 16 19:30:43 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 37140 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2008 02:30:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2008 02:30:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.245) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2008 02:30:40 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c37so808466anc.85 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:30:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.248.9 with SMTP id v9mr1370418anh.86.1208399440042; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:30:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:30:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 21:30:39 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <851848.47836.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <851848.47836.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.245 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=4-Eee1Ow9h3J-h-k9j-K9J3_WMRXsn0axRTw1vzvw_hpxrP3Hrs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43567 Are you really serious? Don't wish for something and you may realize it. mkr On 4/16/08, Cass Silva wrote: > > I don't know Morten, but I wouldn't mind a couple of years on the Adyar > lawns while administrators take care of the day to day running of the > organization. > > Cass > > MKR > wrote: > Theosophy is something personal and integral to everyone of us exposed to > us. What we do with it or not is up to us. No one forces us to act unless > we > decide to do so. > > As for the organization, apart from all the rules, there are many things > that rules cannot address and what creates issues is the money and > property > and the power over management and dispensation of the money and provide > livelihood and the ability of doling out favors by way of giving a > platform > to write and speak, so long as you toe the official line. When the > organization and the philosophy are combined, it produces a strange > product > which can be such that at times the actions are not conducive to the > dissemination of philosophy. > > This seems to be one of the drawbacks which has stunted the growth of the > membership. With all the loud talk about the achievements, the membership > had negative growth in terms of the percentage of the world population and > no one rarely talks about it. > > It is the individual members who, by their daily personal > actions, contribute to the dissemination of theosophy rather than the > organization and we all need to find ways to encourage everyone to find > newer ways to do it. > > One such example is this e-mail llist which we all enjoy because of > the effort and interest of one individual. The TSA during the Algeo > leadership was not able to develop an active email list due to it being a > (censored) moderated one, which simply shows that where organizations > fail, > individual efforts do succeed. > > So many of us like me do look to individual efforts in making theosophy > accessible to world at large. > > mkr > > On 4/16/08, Anton Rozman > > wrote: > > > > Maybe the relation between Theosophy and the Theosophical Society can > > be seen as the relation between Life and Form. And the Form - the > > Theosophical Society is clearly defined by its Rules and Regulations > > and Proceedings which have to be respected to assure that voice of > > each individual member is heard, that the freedom of the Society and > > freedom of thought is present and that the Theosophy can possibly > > pour itself through it. The Form isn't perfect but it is the best and > > the only one we have now at this given moment. It can really function > > only when the rules of the game are respected. It is like in chess > > where moves of pieces are strictly determined. If you want to move > > the pieces arbitrarily you can possibly force the co-player to accept > > your way of playing the game but you are not playing chess anymore. > > > > Best regards, > > Anton > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com>, > > "adelasie" wrote: > > > > > > Isn't Theosophy based primarily on Centralization, one Life, the > > > Unity of all life? Isn't it based on compassion and forgiveness and > > > acceptance and non-judgementalism? Isn't it based on cooperation > > and > > > altruism? Doesn't theosophy say that democracy is not the best form > > > of government, but just a karmic necessity of this cycle? That the > > > ideal form of government is one leader fully supported, the wisest > > > and kindest and best that can be found? > > > > > > I know! How about you, Chuck!! We would all be kept in stitches > > > ROFLOAO and nobody would have time to snipe at each other...a true > > > utopia.... > > > > > > Adelasie > > > > > > On 16 Apr 2008 at 11:46, Drpsionic@... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I missed that one, perhaps just as well.? There is nothing > > democratic about Theosophy, either in theory or organization. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chuck the Heretic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Wed Apr 16 23:55:57 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 2274 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2008 06:55:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2008 06:55:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52107.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.110) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2008 06:55:54 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 60114 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Apr 2008 06:55:54 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: uaPx8tQVM1k0j5dU48mKzlOWzA0qKJ0az_zBnHXGY8O7xHxPs4lxbbZpSxxDmJqWtp8rpEzmM8GUyCFg3Qg1Q9s.GFTATEVdgqBrfAdmeA1B7CarJGtQx3CzoDO4fbl68BuQKANpfQ7osd2p4qlYOtZiq2OBCFdT7_kd12ql3JZxac_VwPvKSZusPyIrMR6zupyU X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52107.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 23:55:54 PDT Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 23:55:54 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <385429.60093.qm@web52107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.110 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=WC_ejvxZ6AqC0SzWdV1h6DcG79ZGlOn7fTHydUeZ8urU-W_noQ X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43568 That's how 'the old boys club' works. Play by my rules. Brotherhood, imo, does not mean joining up to other associations but respecting their choices. Cass MKR wrote: You are on the right track. It is a simple attempt to influence those TS members who are sympathetic to the masonic organization to support the candidature or else why is it mentioned. There is another more fundamental issue from a theosophist's point of view. All one needs to join the TS is to be in sympathy with the First Object -- Brotherhood and you sign in an application and no further question is asked except to check if you are a minor, in which case in many countries you need parent's consent. On the other hand there are other serious restrictions when one seeks admission to masonry. Anyone can google and find out how the admission process works in masonry and what the general restrictions are. So trying to show off the high masonry degree to impress voters is something voters need to very carefully look into, especially those who are committed to theosophical Brotherhood in its widest sense. I say this because I know there are long standing members of theosophy who have made immense contributions in their own low key way who will not be admitted into masonry. mkr On 4/16/08, Cass Silva wrote: > > Seems pointless, what is the advantage of being a 33 degree Mason when > HPB provided the ancient truths which HPB stated Freemasonry had lost? > Thanks for your response > > Cass > > MarieMAJ41@aol.com wrote: > Cass, John Algeo broke away from LeDroit Humaine and started his own > masonic lodge. It was the only way that he could get the 33rd degree [that > is my own opinion]. This is the reason for the masonic emphasis. Many people > at the USA headquarters are members of this? masonic lodge. In fact, it is > an international masonic lodge, with members from around the theosophical > world, including India. > > Marie > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cass Silva > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:42 am > Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election > > Still can't find Rhada's letter. Interesting that the Freemasonry badge is > part of JA's site. > Cass > > Jokela Petri > wrote: > We have traditional proverb which says: > stupidity tighten ups in groups. > > Here is he new link. Seems that there was one dot too much in between. > http://www.jalgeo.com > > pj > > Cass Silva kirjoitti: > > > > The link didn't work Jokela, however, this 'power struggle' undermines > > the three principles of theosophy and says more about the > > 'personalities' of the candidates than they can imagine. The TS should > > be run by a committee, a round table, although I am starting to think > > that 10 theosophists in the same room would result in anarchy. > > > > Cass > > > > > > > > Jokela Petri > > >> wrote: > > Dear fellow Theosophist, > > > > I feel compelled to break the long standing prohibition against writing > > political letters during an election. Since Radha Burnier herself has > > now broken that tradition by sending out the letter given below to a > > number of our ranks, I do not have any qualms in feeling justified to > > respond to her blatant electioneering. > > > > I have always held Radha in great esteem and still honor her for her > > tireless and capable work for the Society. However, I have seen with my > > own eyes that her marvellous abilities are compromised to such an extent > > that I consider her not to be the best choice for the president and > > chief administrator of our organization. Her memory and clarity are > > inconsistent, sometimes right on, and sometimes far afield---as is the > > case for all of us > > when aging, especially by stroke, takes its toll. Because she has been > > such a wonderfully iron willed woman, she now apparently is mis- > > applying that iron will by trying to cling to an administrative roll > > that in my opinion is no longer best for the Society or best for her. > > > > I can see Radha maintaining a roll of leadership in the spiritual or > > inner side of things as a wise counsellor, functioning well without > > undue stress, but I view her continuation as the chief administrative > > officer for the Theosophical Society as counter productive. We need > > sharp clarity, consistency, and creative flexibility as we all work > > together to keep Theosophy alive and vital in the 21st century. We need > > strong leadership such as John Algeo could provide. > > > > As to her letter below, I will let it speak for itself, but I do have to > > say that I think the reference to age is ironic. Furthermore, it is > > presumptuous to indicate that John does not also have the capacity to > > bring in younger workers. And it is presumptuous to define his motives > > or to ascribe to him the intent to diminish the importance of Adyar as > > our international center, an action he has clearly stated he is against. > > If elected, John may not be able to spend all his time at Adyar, but I > > have experienced him as an able administrator and delegator, and feel > > assured that Adyar would flourish under his leadership. > > > > John has set up a web site http://www.jalgeo..com/ > > that you might want > > to see in order to help you decide for yourself. > > The upcoming election of international president of the Theosophical > > Society for the next 7 years is a critical one. Please consider > carefully. > > With sincerity and all best wishes, > > > > Betty Bland, President > > The Theosophical Society in America > > > > between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99
Be a better friend, > > newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > href=" > http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > < > http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ> > > > "> Try it now. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Thu Apr 17 00:20:58 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 88527 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2008 07:20:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2008 07:20:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52102.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.105) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2008 07:20:54 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 87802 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Apr 2008 07:20:54 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: VS186G0VM1lIc3vMjzE2XjaSJLwrX82v8JSdOawE X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52102.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 00:20:53 PDT Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 00:20:53 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <42956.87769.qm@web52102.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.105 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=BFb0wvbFsNGoWy3ALYfiWG4YmE1A1iuDplvtUwI8lYz6YT0jww X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43569 I will take it with a pina colada! Cass MKR wrote: Are you really serious? Don't wish for something and you may realize it. mkr On 4/16/08, Cass Silva wrote: > > I don't know Morten, but I wouldn't mind a couple of years on the Adyar > lawns while administrators take care of the day to day running of the > organization. > > Cass > > MKR > wrote: > Theosophy is something personal and integral to everyone of us exposed to > us. What we do with it or not is up to us. No one forces us to act unless > we > decide to do so. > > As for the organization, apart from all the rules, there are many things > that rules cannot address and what creates issues is the money and > property > and the power over management and dispensation of the money and provide > livelihood and the ability of doling out favors by way of giving a > platform > to write and speak, so long as you toe the official line. When the > organization and the philosophy are combined, it produces a strange > product > which can be such that at times the actions are not conducive to the > dissemination of philosophy. > > This seems to be one of the drawbacks which has stunted the growth of the > membership. With all the loud talk about the achievements, the membership > had negative growth in terms of the percentage of the world population and > no one rarely talks about it. > > It is the individual members who, by their daily personal > actions, contribute to the dissemination of theosophy rather than the > organization and we all need to find ways to encourage everyone to find > newer ways to do it. > > One such example is this e-mail llist which we all enjoy because of > the effort and interest of one individual. The TSA during the Algeo > leadership was not able to develop an active email list due to it being a > (censored) moderated one, which simply shows that where organizations > fail, > individual efforts do succeed. > > So many of us like me do look to individual efforts in making theosophy > accessible to world at large. > > mkr > > On 4/16/08, Anton Rozman > > wrote: > > > > Maybe the relation between Theosophy and the Theosophical Society can > > be seen as the relation between Life and Form. And the Form - the > > Theosophical Society is clearly defined by its Rules and Regulations > > and Proceedings which have to be respected to assure that voice of > > each individual member is heard, that the freedom of the Society and > > freedom of thought is present and that the Theosophy can possibly > > pour itself through it. The Form isn't perfect but it is the best and > > the only one we have now at this given moment. It can really function > > only when the rules of the game are respected. It is like in chess > > where moves of pieces are strictly determined. If you want to move > > the pieces arbitrarily you can possibly force the co-player to accept > > your way of playing the game but you are not playing chess anymore. > > > > Best regards, > > Anton > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com>, > > "adelasie" wrote: > > > > > > Isn't Theosophy based primarily on Centralization, one Life, the > > > Unity of all life? Isn't it based on compassion and forgiveness and > > > acceptance and non-judgementalism? Isn't it based on cooperation > > and > > > altruism? Doesn't theosophy say that democracy is not the best form > > > of government, but just a karmic necessity of this cycle? That the > > > ideal form of government is one leader fully supported, the wisest > > > and kindest and best that can be found? > > > > > > I know! How about you, Chuck!! We would all be kept in stitches > > > ROFLOAO and nobody would have time to snipe at each other...a true > > > utopia.... > > > > > > Adelasie > > > > > > On 16 Apr 2008 at 11:46, Drpsionic@... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I missed that one, perhaps just as well.? There is nothing > > democratic about Theosophy, either in theory or organization. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chuck the Heretic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Mvandertak@yahoo.com Thu Apr 17 00:29:39 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mvandertak@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 67759 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2008 07:29:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2008 07:29:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52607.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.210) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2008 07:29:37 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 87666 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Apr 2008 07:29:33 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Hobdgf8VM1lAJ7.6iP_M2_RtaRBQXBMCQX_6JuPOvbB9EiUz_.Cdd.vTVF22nUBS_mTEkFrLgKwCbzEVGxpVzJ0Y1zCn4SQRW5VpovgsUUfmrpiPigFE0dvb3nI68IXoIIsOIyk- X-Received: from [82.217.39.103] by web52607.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 00:29:33 PDT Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 00:29:33 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <342911.98162.qm@web52111.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <777244.87635.qm@web52607.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.210 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Martin Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=38276385; y=tBbvMP2b9N3qYkEP_uQPpbm0JKd72yOyUkdfuFOkdEZzn7mzMQ X-Yahoo-Profile: mvandertak X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43570 Haha, true...I never liked sim-city anyways, however there are so many worlds in the galaxy, we are just visiting this one and learning how to make our own one day...we learn how to play like god...leela --- Cass Silva wrote: > Had a chuckle Martin. As far as creating your own > world, you couldn't possibly do any worse than those > that preceded you. > > Cass > > Martin wrote: > You are absolutely right. There is no > democracy in the > Universe either. > Wheter you are a bum or a buddha, there is always > another being telling you what to do, volunterely or > by force of karma...Actally we live in a REAL > dictatorship world. As long as you live in harmony > with Nature you are fine, but don't dare to > disharmonise...I had a thought as a child to make my > own world, with its own laws etc. Ain't that funny > :-) > > --- Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > > > > > I missed that one, perhaps just as well.? There is > > nothing democratic about Theosophy, either in > theory > > or organization. > > > > > > > > Chuck the Heretic > > > > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Cass Silva > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:57 am > > Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President > Election > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Someone in the group made the comment that we are > > living in a democracy! > > Cass > > > > Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > > What has democracy got to do with Theosophy? > > > > Chuck the heretic > > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Cass Silva > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 8:17 pm > > Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President > Election > > > > Mention the word DEMOCRACY > > Cass > > > > Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > > > > It's getting more and more interesting.? > > > > When do they start really throwing mud at each > > other? > > > > Chuck the Heretic > > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: MKR > > To: theos-L@yahoogroups.com; > > theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 7:04 am > > Subject: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election > > > > I just received the following from cyberspace. It > > makes interesting reading > > and you decide for yourself. > > > > mkr > > > > > ============================================================== > > Dear Colleague, > > > > This is to inform you that I have received 14 > > nominations from General > > Secretaries etc, who represent a totality of > 17,037 > > votes. Dr John Algeo has > > received 21 nominations, representing a totality > of > > 10,685 votes. > > > > I think we need younger people to be in charge of > > the Society's work and > > that they have to stay in Adyar. Dr. Algeo who is > > around 78, does not like > > the climate here, nor can he leave the United > States > > for more than a short > > time, in view of his wife's condition. I believe > > that if elected he intends > > to work largely from America through e-mail and > > video conversations. > > > > It is necessary to have the right candidates for > the > > officers of the > > Theosophical Society. I believe that Mrs Linda > > Oliveira and her husband, and > > some members from Britain , etc., will be coming > to > > Adyar shortly, to stay > > and work here. > > > > You know very well that since Col. H.S. Olcott, > all > > Presidents have lived at > > Adyar, and this was not merely a matter of their > > convenience. Adyar has been > > considered as a Spiritual Centre. From here the > work > > of the Society can best > > send forth the power and blessing of the Elder > > Brethren. Such programmes as > > the International Convention and the School of the > > Wisdom, which are > > features of Adyar attract many members from around > > the world. Many of these > > members are able to return to their lodges with a > > greater understanding of > > the purpose of the Society and the work of the > > Founders. > > > > In my view it would not be a good thing to have > > somebody live in the United > > States and run Adyar by proxy. Adyar should be > > maintained as a living > > Headquarters for reasons which are obvious to > those > > who know the history of > > the Society. > > > > Yours fraternally, > > > > Radha Burnier > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99
Be a > > better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with > > Yahoo! Mobile. > > href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > "> Try it now. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99 > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > === message truncated === ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From anton_rozman@yahoo.com Thu Apr 17 01:06:58 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: anton_rozman@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 52581 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2008 08:06:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2008 08:06:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n34a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.128) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2008 08:06:55 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n34.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Apr 2008 08:06:55 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Apr 2008 08:06:55 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Apr 2008 08:06:55 -0000 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:06:54 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.168.128 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 82.192.56.78 From: "Anton Rozman" Subject: Re: TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=192242904; y=moP1C6NBF7uGSnkoBo0U12jghtANn4W9nGg5Gnc5bMGMM56okHoO X-Yahoo-Profile: anton_rozman X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43571 The problem is that democracy demands participation of each=20 individual - self-governed, well-informed, courageous and active=20 individual. There are too many who are, for various reasons, willing=20 to transmit their power to the authority. The change of actual=20 situation depends on that how many will accept their unique role in=20 the fate of humanity. And this is the ground where theosophy and=20 democracy meet. Anton --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, MKR wrote: > > Theosophy is something personal and integral to everyone of us=20 exposed to > us. What we do with it or not is up to us. No one forces us to act=20 unless we > decide to do so. >=20 > As for the organization, apart from all the rules, there are many=20 things > that rules cannot address and what creates issues is the money and=20 property > and the power over management and dispensation of the money and=20 provide > livelihood and the ability of doling out favors by way of giving a=20 platform > to write and speak, so long as you toe the official line. When the > organization and the philosophy are combined, it produces a strange=20 product > which can be such that at times the actions are not conducive to the > dissemination of philosophy. >=20 > This seems to be one of the drawbacks which has stunted the growth=20 of the > membership. With all the loud talk about the achievements, the=20 membership > had negative growth in terms of the percentage of the world=20 population and > no one rarely talks about it. >=20 > It is the individual members who, by their daily personal > actions, contribute to the dissemination of theosophy rather than=20 the > organization and we all need to find ways to encourage everyone to=20 find > newer ways to do it. >=20 > One such example is this e-mail llist which we all enjoy because of > the effort and interest of one individual. The TSA during the Algeo > leadership was not able to develop an active email list due to it=20 being a > (censored) moderated one, which simply shows that where=20 organizations fail, > individual efforts do succeed. >=20 > So many of us like me do look to individual efforts in making=20 theosophy > accessible to world at large. >=20 > mkr >=20 >=20 > On 4/16/08, Anton Rozman wrote: > > > > Maybe the relation between Theosophy and the Theosophical=20 Society can > > be seen as the relation between Life and Form. And the Form - the > > Theosophical Society is clearly defined by its Rules and=20 Regulations > > and Proceedings which have to be respected to assure that voice of > > each individual member is heard, that the freedom of the Society=20 and > > freedom of thought is present and that the Theosophy can possibly > > pour itself through it. The Form isn't perfect but it is the best=20 and > > the only one we have now at this given moment. It can really=20 function > > only when the rules of the game are respected. It is like in chess > > where moves of pieces are strictly determined. If you want to move > > the pieces arbitrarily you can possibly force the co-player to=20 accept > > your way of playing the game but you are not playing chess=20 anymore. > > > > Best regards, > > Anton > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com , > > "adelasie" wrote: > > > > > > Isn't Theosophy based primarily on Centralization, one Life, the > > > Unity of all life? Isn't it based on compassion and forgiveness=20 and > > > acceptance and non-judgementalism? Isn't it based on cooperation > > and > > > altruism? Doesn't theosophy say that democracy is not the best=20 form > > > of government, but just a karmic necessity of this cycle? That=20 the > > > ideal form of government is one leader fully supported, the=20 wisest > > > and kindest and best that can be found? > > > > > > I know! How about you, Chuck!! We would all be kept in stitches > > > ROFLOAO and nobody would have time to snipe at each other...a=20 true > > > utopia.... > > > > > > Adelasie > > > > > > On 16 Apr 2008 at 11:46, Drpsionic@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I missed that one, perhaps just as well.? There is nothing > > democratic about Theosophy, either in theory or organization. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chuck the Heretic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > > > > > > > > > >=20 > > >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > From Drpsionic@aol.com Thu Apr 17 07:38:39 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 93745 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2008 14:38:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2008 14:38:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2008 14:38:37 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c26.319cfa36 (34917) for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:38:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from WEBMAIL-MC14 (webmail-mc14.webmail.aol.com [64.12.170.91]) by cia-da03.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA032-8865480760e73de; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:38:31 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:38:31 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 69.217.164.179 In-Reply-To: <503249.99791.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36012-STANDARD X-Received: from 69.217.164.179 by WEBMAIL-MC14.sysops.aol.com (64.12.170.91) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:38:31 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA6EAFD79F6E47-1294-24B7@WEBMAIL-MC14.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.139.136 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=4seSxY54mLvOSsqx8h4u6_Ilkl3uBR8bxz7UKwJbbVIEs1m4Tw X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43572 Never made any sense to me, but then I don't buy into that initiatory hierarchy thing anyway. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 8:19 pm Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election Seems pointless, what is the advantage of being a 33 degree Mason when HPB provided the ancient truths which HPB stated Freemasonry had lost? Thanks for your response Cass MarieMAJ41@aol.com wrote: Cass, John Algeo broke away from LeDroit Humaine and started his own masonic lodge. It was the only way that he could get the 33rd degree [that is my own opinion]. This is the reason for the masonic emphasis. Many people at the USA headquarters are members of this? masonic lodge. In fact, it is an international masonic lodge, with members from around the theosophical world, including India. Marie -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:42 am Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election Still can't find Rhada's letter. Interesting that the Freemasonry badge is part of JA's site. Cass Jokela Petri wrote: We have traditional proverb which says: stupidity tighten ups in groups. Here is he new link. Seems that there was one dot too much in between. http://www.jalgeo.com pj Cass Silva kirjoitti: > > The link didn't work Jokela, however, this 'power struggle' undermines > the three principles of theosophy and says more about the > 'personalities' of the candidates than they can imagine. The TS should > be run by a committee, a round table, although I am starting to think > that 10 theosophists in the same room would result in anarchy. > > Cass > > > > Jokela Petri > wrote: > Dear fellow Theosophist, > > I feel compelled to break the long standing prohibition against writing > political letters during an election. Since Radha Burnier herself has > now broken that tradition by sending out the letter given below to a > number of our ranks, I do not have any qualms in feeling justified to > respond to her blatant electioneering. > > I have always held Radha in great esteem and still honor her for her > tireless and capable work for the Society. However, I have seen with my > own eyes that her marvellous abilities are compromised to such an extent > that I consider her not to be the best choice for the president and > chief administrator of our organization. Her memory and clarity are > inconsistent, sometimes right on, and sometimes far afield---as is the > case for all of us > when aging, especially by stroke, takes its toll. Because she has been > such a wonderfully iron willed woman, she now apparently is mis- > applying that iron will by trying to cling to an administrative roll > that in my opinion is no longer best for the Society or best for her. > > I can see Radha maintaining a roll of leadership in the spiritual or > inner side of things as a wise counsellor, functioning well without > undue stress, but I view her continuation as the chief administrative > officer for the Theosophical Society as counter productive. We need > sharp clarity, consistency, and creative flexibility as we all work > together to keep Theosophy alive and vital in the 21st century. We need > strong leadership such as John Algeo could provide. > > As to her letter below, I will let it speak for itself, but I do have to > say that I think the reference to age is ironic. Furthermore, it is > presumptuous to indicate that John does not also have the capacity to > bring in younger workers. And it is presumptuous to define his motives > or to ascribe to him the intent to diminish the importance of Adyar as > our international center, an action he has clearly stated he is against. > If elected, John may not be able to spend all his time at Adyar, but I > have experienced him as an able administrator and delegator, and feel > assured that Adyar would flourish under his leadership. > > John has set up a web site http://www.jalgeo..com/ > that you might want > to see in order to help you decide for yourself. > The upcoming election of international president of the Theosophical > Society for the next 7 years is a critical one. Please consider carefully. > With sincerity and all best wishes, > > Betty Bland, President > The Theosophical Society in America > > between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99
Be a better friend, > newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > "> Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Thu Apr 17 07:41:30 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 29200 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2008 14:41:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2008 14:41:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m12.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.100) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2008 14:41:24 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c05.34a62408 (37139) for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:40:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from WEBMAIL-MC14 (webmail-mc14.webmail.aol.com [64.12.170.91]) by cia-ma03.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMA031-91134807614f20c; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:40:15 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:40:15 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 69.217.164.179 In-Reply-To: <851848.47836.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36012-STANDARD X-Received: from 69.217.164.179 by WEBMAIL-MC14.sysops.aol.com (64.12.170.91) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:40:15 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA6EB015548A51-1294-24D1@WEBMAIL-MC14.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.143.100 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=Hpm9jFGc6WBA2RuY0j0bVHI_2U0NXF4SOxmTykGGB9-LBI-55g X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43573 Just don't go swimming in the bay.? The sharks are not vegetarians. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 9:24 pm Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election I don't know Morten, but I wouldn't mind a couple of years on the Adyar lawns while administrators take care of the day to day running of the organization. Cass MKR wrote: Theosophy is something personal and integral to everyone of us exposed to us. What we do with it or not is up to us. No one forces us to act unless we decide to do so. As for the organization, apart from all the rules, there are many things that rules cannot address and what creates issues is the money and property and the power over management and dispensation of the money and provide livelihood and the ability of doling out favors by way of giving a platform to write and speak, so long as you toe the official line. When the organization and the philosophy are combined, it produces a strange product which can be such that at times the actions are not conducive to the dissemination of philosophy. This seems to be one of the drawbacks which has stunted the growth of the membership. With all the loud talk about the achievements, the membership had negative growth in terms of the percentage of the world population and no one rarely talks about it. It is the individual members who, by their daily personal actions, contribute to the dissemination of theosophy rather than the organization and we all need to find ways to encourage everyone to find newer ways to do it. One such example is this e-mail llist which we all enjoy because of the effort and interest of one individual. The TSA during the Algeo leadership was not able to develop an active email list due to it being a (censored) moderated one, which simply shows that where organizations fail, individual efforts do succeed. So many of us like me do look to individual efforts in making theosophy accessible to world at large. mkr On 4/16/08, Anton Rozman wrote: > > Maybe the relation between Theosophy and the Theosophical Society can > be seen as the relation between Life and Form. And the Form - the > Theosophical Society is clearly defined by its Rules and Regulations > and Proceedings which have to be respected to assure that voice of > each individual member is heard, that the freedom of the Society and > freedom of thought is present and that the Theosophy can possibly > pour itself through it. The Form isn't perfect but it is the best and > the only one we have now at this given moment. It can really function > only when the rules of the game are respected. It is like in chess > where moves of pieces are strictly determined. If you want to move > the pieces arbitrarily you can possibly force the co-player to accept > your way of playing the game but you are not playing chess anymore. > > Best regards, > Anton > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com , > "adelasie" wrote: > > > > Isn't Theosophy based primarily on Centralization, one Life, the > > Unity of all life? Isn't it based on compassion and forgiveness and > > acceptance and non-judgementalism? Isn't it based on cooperation > and > > altruism? Doesn't theosophy say that democracy is not the best form > > of government, but just a karmic necessity of this cycle? That the > > ideal form of government is one leader fully supported, the wisest > > and kindest and best that can be found? > > > > I know! How about you, Chuck!! We would all be kept in stitches > > ROFLOAO and nobody would have time to snipe at each other...a true > > utopia.... > > > > Adelasie > > > > On 16 Apr 2008 at 11:46, Drpsionic@... wrote: > > > > > > > > I missed that one, perhaps just as well.? There is nothing > democratic about Theosophy, either in theory or organization. > > > > > > > > > > > > Chuck the Heretic > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Thu Apr 17 07:53:16 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 17727 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2008 14:53:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2008 14:53:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.244) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2008 14:53:13 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b2so22869ana.81 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 07:53:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.252.17 with SMTP id z17mr2722486anh.79.1208443989573; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 07:53:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 07:53:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 09:53:09 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8CA6E25D5561A31-1638-B4C@mblk-d38.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <604192.1432.qm@web52104.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <8CA6E25D5561A31-1638-B4C@mblk-d38.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.244 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=3kQ3mIit-BDZs7oOTiVqLCmWxtGT9GRT7L_oL7oFRlXtIL7uGBk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43574 What next? If he does not get his way, can we expect a new Theosophical Society run from the kitchen with the help of modern technology and communication? mkr On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 5:10 PM, wrote: > Cass, John Algeo broke away from LeDroit Humaine and started his own > masonic lodge. It was the only way that he could get the 33rd degree [that > is my own opinion]. This is the reason for the masonic emphasis. Many people > at the USA headquarters are members of this? masonic lodge. In fact, it is > an international masonic lodge, with members from around the theosophical > world, including India. > > Marie > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cass Silva > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:42 am > Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election > > Still can't find Rhada's letter. Interesting that the Freemasonry badge is > part of JA's site. > Cass > > Jokela Petri > wrote: > We have traditional proverb which says: > stupidity tighten ups in groups. > > Here is he new link. Seems that there was one dot too much in between. > http://www.jalgeo.com > > pj > > Cass Silva kirjoitti: > > > > The link didn't work Jokela, however, this 'power struggle' undermines > > the three principles of theosophy and says more about the > > 'personalities' of the candidates than they can imagine. The TS should > > be run by a committee, a round table, although I am starting to think > > that 10 theosophists in the same room would result in anarchy. > > > > Cass > > > > > > > > Jokela Petri > > >> wrote: > > Dear fellow Theosophist, > > > > I feel compelled to break the long standing prohibition against writing > > political letters during an election. Since Radha Burnier herself has > > now broken that tradition by sending out the letter given below to a > > number of our ranks, I do not have any qualms in feeling justified to > > respond to her blatant electioneering. > > > > I have always held Radha in great esteem and still honor her for her > > tireless and capable work for the Society. However, I have seen with my > > own eyes that her marvellous abilities are compromised to such an extent > > that I consider her not to be the best choice for the president and > > chief administrator of our organization. Her memory and clarity are > > inconsistent, sometimes right on, and sometimes far afield---as is the > > case for all of us > > when aging, especially by stroke, takes its toll. Because she has been > > such a wonderfully iron willed woman, she now apparently is mis- > > applying that iron will by trying to cling to an administrative roll > > that in my opinion is no longer best for the Society or best for her. > > > > I can see Radha maintaining a roll of leadership in the spiritual or > > inner side of things as a wise counsellor, functioning well without > > undue stress, but I view her continuation as the chief administrative > > officer for the Theosophical Society as counter productive. We need > > sharp clarity, consistency, and creative flexibility as we all work > > together to keep Theosophy alive and vital in the 21st century. We need > > strong leadership such as John Algeo could provide. > > > > As to her letter below, I will let it speak for itself, but I do have to > > say that I think the reference to age is ironic. Furthermore, it is > > presumptuous to indicate that John does not also have the capacity to > > bring in younger workers. And it is presumptuous to define his motives > > or to ascribe to him the intent to diminish the importance of Adyar as > > our international center, an action he has clearly stated he is against. > > If elected, John may not be able to spend all his time at Adyar, but I > > have experienced him as an able administrator and delegator, and feel > > assured that Adyar would flourish under his leadership. > > > > John has set up a web site http://www.jalgeo..com/ > > that you might want > > to see in order to help you decide for yourself. > > The upcoming election of international president of the Theosophical > > Society for the next 7 years is a critical one. Please consider > carefully. > > With sincerity and all best wishes, > > > > Betty Bland, President > > The Theosophical Society in America > > > > between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99
Be a better friend, > > newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > href=" > http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > < > http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ> > > > "> Try it now. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Thu Apr 17 08:08:38 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 66879 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2008 15:08:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2008 15:08:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.243) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2008 15:08:34 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b2so25846ana.88 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:08:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.101.69.10 with SMTP id w10mr2762785ank.68.1208444913462; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:08:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:08:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:08:33 -0500 To: theos-L@yahoogroups.com, theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.243 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=3Q9aWENZDXW0g-HcqSnENbAGAXVUARlch1tbRCFqyf6Umuuf0M4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43575 *On re-reading the message, I am glad to see the forthrightness of Radha Burnier in issuing it under her own name. From what I have seen in the past (over several decades), that is how she has always operated. I would have welcomed a forthright rebuttal or response from Algeo under his own name. In today's Internet world this can be achieved at no cost at all. Internet is free. First inkling of the election candidates was when I received a letter from one of his surrogates suggesting that Radha's poor mental/memory condition (some may read it as senility). Me thinks that is how Algeo operates so that his fingerprints are not in any communication/response. Any feedback? mkr * On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 7:04 AM, MKR wrote: > I just received the following from cyberspace. It makes interesting > reading > and you decide for yourself. > > mkr > > ============================================================== > Dear Colleague, > > This is to inform you that I have received 14 nominations from General > Secretaries etc, who represent a totality of 17,037 votes. Dr John Algeo > has > received 21 nominations, representing a totality of 10,685 votes. > > I think we need younger people to be in charge of the Society's work and > that they have to stay in Adyar. Dr. Algeo who is around 78, does not like > the climate here, nor can he leave the United States for more than a short > time, in view of his wife's condition. I believe that if elected he > intends > to work largely from America through e-mail and video conversations. > > It is necessary to have the right candidates for the officers of the > Theosophical Society. I believe that Mrs Linda Oliveira and her husband, > and > some members from Britain , etc., will be coming to Adyar shortly, to stay > and work here. > > You know very well that since Col. H.S. Olcott, all Presidents have lived > at > Adyar, and this was not merely a matter of their convenience. Adyar has > been > considered as a Spiritual Centre. From here the work of the Society can > best > send forth the power and blessing of the Elder Brethren. Such programmes > as > the International Convention and the School of the Wisdom, which are > features of Adyar attract many members from around the world. Many of > these > members are able to return to their lodges with a greater understanding of > the purpose of the Society and the work of the Founders. > > In my view it would not be a good thing to have somebody live in the > United > States and run Adyar by proxy. Adyar should be maintained as a living > Headquarters for reasons which are obvious to those who know the history > of > the Society. > > Yours fraternally, > > Radha Burnier > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Thu Apr 17 08:22:20 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 42598 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2008 15:22:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2008 15:22:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wx-out-0506.google.com) (66.249.82.239) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2008 15:22:16 -0000 X-Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i28so124199wxd.1 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:22:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.251.13 with SMTP id y13mr2736551anh.131.1208445735738; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:22:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:22:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:22:15 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: X-Originating-IP: 66.249.82.239 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=bwsZRprzOhT4b5KIhMIgccKhGwnA87_kycYmUC7MaxO_8uk63ME Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43576 The situation in TS is far more complicated. When you have an organization with property and power, along with it comes built-in problems. Even with all of us subscribing to Brotherhood in theory, we are all not perfect and we have our own limitations of preferences and prejudices etc. I have seen it first hand even though many of these things are very subtle indeed. mkr On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 3:06 AM, Anton Rozman wrote: > The problem is that democracy demands participation of each > individual - self-governed, well-informed, courageous and active > individual. There are too many who are, for various reasons, willing > to transmit their power to the authority. The change of actual > situation depends on that how many will accept their unique role in > the fate of humanity. And this is the ground where theosophy and > democracy meet. > > Anton > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com , MKR > wrote: > > > > Theosophy is something personal and integral to everyone of us > exposed to > > us. What we do with it or not is up to us. No one forces us to act > unless we > > decide to do so. > > > > As for the organization, apart from all the rules, there are many > things > > that rules cannot address and what creates issues is the money and > property > > and the power over management and dispensation of the money and > provide > > livelihood and the ability of doling out favors by way of giving a > platform > > to write and speak, so long as you toe the official line. When the > > organization and the philosophy are combined, it produces a strange > product > > which can be such that at times the actions are not conducive to the > > dissemination of philosophy. > > > > This seems to be one of the drawbacks which has stunted the growth > of the > > membership. With all the loud talk about the achievements, the > membership > > had negative growth in terms of the percentage of the world > population and > > no one rarely talks about it. > > > > It is the individual members who, by their daily personal > > actions, contribute to the dissemination of theosophy rather than > the > > organization and we all need to find ways to encourage everyone to > find > > newer ways to do it. > > > > One such example is this e-mail llist which we all enjoy because of > > the effort and interest of one individual. The TSA during the Algeo > > leadership was not able to develop an active email list due to it > being a > > (censored) moderated one, which simply shows that where > organizations fail, > > individual efforts do succeed. > > > > So many of us like me do look to individual efforts in making > theosophy > > accessible to world at large. > > > > mkr > > > > > > On 4/16/08, Anton Rozman wrote: > > > > > > Maybe the relation between Theosophy and the Theosophical > Society can > > > be seen as the relation between Life and Form. And the Form - the > > > Theosophical Society is clearly defined by its Rules and > Regulations > > > and Proceedings which have to be respected to assure that voice of > > > each individual member is heard, that the freedom of the Society > and > > > freedom of thought is present and that the Theosophy can possibly > > > pour itself through it. The Form isn't perfect but it is the best > and > > > the only one we have now at this given moment. It can really > function > > > only when the rules of the game are respected. It is like in chess > > > where moves of pieces are strictly determined. If you want to move > > > the pieces arbitrarily you can possibly force the co-player to > accept > > > your way of playing the game but you are not playing chess > anymore. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Anton > > > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > "adelasie" wrote: > > > > > > > > Isn't Theosophy based primarily on Centralization, one Life, the > > > > Unity of all life? Isn't it based on compassion and forgiveness > and > > > > acceptance and non-judgementalism? Isn't it based on cooperation > > > and > > > > altruism? Doesn't theosophy say that democracy is not the best > form > > > > of government, but just a karmic necessity of this cycle? That > the > > > > ideal form of government is one leader fully supported, the > wisest > > > > and kindest and best that can be found? > > > > > > > > I know! How about you, Chuck!! We would all be kept in stitches > > > > ROFLOAO and nobody would have time to snipe at each other...a > true > > > > utopia.... > > > > > > > > Adelasie > > > > > > > > On 16 Apr 2008 at 11:46, Drpsionic@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I missed that one, perhaps just as well.? There is nothing > > > democratic about Theosophy, either in theory or organization. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chuck the Heretic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From anton_rozman@yahoo.com Thu Apr 17 09:34:43 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: anton_rozman@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 98514 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2008 16:34:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2008 16:34:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n30a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.252) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2008 16:34:40 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n30.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Apr 2008 16:34:40 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Apr 2008 16:34:40 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Apr 2008 16:34:40 -0000 Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 16:34:39 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 209.131.38.252 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 82.192.56.78 From: "Anton Rozman" Subject: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=192242904; y=mi4SK4KfAp8iKSpNiNTmn6kZTJT1yZoGf6O0m_XfUShBU-HluGT9 X-Yahoo-Profile: anton_rozman X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43577 The situation is complex indeed - but what financially runs the=20 organization, as does a state, is the financial input each individual=20 member pays every year in form of fee or tax. This is her/his power=20 transferred or invested to the authority. But how many claim that=20 their money should be used according to their vision of Brotherhood=20 or according to their vision of what is common interest. The great=20 majority probably doesn't even think about the necessity to have such=20 vision of their own (although they subscribed to Brotherhood in=20 theory, as you say) and even fear to ask for information what their=20 money is used for. There is no need that one should be perfect to=20 have the right to her/his own vision and opinion and that her/his=20 opinion should count. I am not saying that things can or should=20 change through the night but it would help much if members would be=20 aware of their individual power and make it operate in constructive=20 manner. Anton --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, MKR wrote: > > The situation in TS is far more complicated. When you have an=20 organization > with property and power, along with it comes built-in problems.=20 Even with > all of us subscribing to Brotherhood in theory, we are all not=20 perfect and > we have our own limitations of preferences and prejudices etc. I=20 have seen > it first hand even though many of these things are very subtle=20 indeed. >=20 > mkr >=20 > On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 3:06 AM, Anton Rozman > wrote: >=20 > > The problem is that democracy demands participation of each > > individual - self-governed, well-informed, courageous and active > > individual. There are too many who are, for various reasons,=20 willing > > to transmit their power to the authority. The change of actual > > situation depends on that how many will accept their unique role=20 in > > the fate of humanity. And this is the ground where theosophy and > > democracy meet. > > > > Anton > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ,=20 MKR > > wrote: > > > > > > Theosophy is something personal and integral to everyone of us > > exposed to > > > us. What we do with it or not is up to us. No one forces us to=20 act > > unless we > > > decide to do so. > > > > > > As for the organization, apart from all the rules, there are=20 many > > things > > > that rules cannot address and what creates issues is the money=20 and > > property > > > and the power over management and dispensation of the money and > > provide > > > livelihood and the ability of doling out favors by way of=20 giving a > > platform > > > to write and speak, so long as you toe the official line. When=20 the > > > organization and the philosophy are combined, it produces a=20 strange > > product > > > which can be such that at times the actions are not conducive=20 to the > > > dissemination of philosophy. > > > > > > This seems to be one of the drawbacks which has stunted the=20 growth > > of the > > > membership. With all the loud talk about the achievements, the > > membership > > > had negative growth in terms of the percentage of the world > > population and > > > no one rarely talks about it. > > > > > > It is the individual members who, by their daily personal > > > actions, contribute to the dissemination of theosophy rather=20 than > > the > > > organization and we all need to find ways to encourage everyone=20 to > > find > > > newer ways to do it. > > > > > > One such example is this e-mail llist which we all enjoy=20 because of > > > the effort and interest of one individual. The TSA during the=20 Algeo > > > leadership was not able to develop an active email list due to=20 it > > being a > > > (censored) moderated one, which simply shows that where > > organizations fail, > > > individual efforts do succeed. > > > > > > So many of us like me do look to individual efforts in making > > theosophy > > > accessible to world at large. > > > > > > mkr > > > > > > > > > On 4/16/08, Anton Rozman wrote: > > > > > > > > Maybe the relation between Theosophy and the Theosophical > > Society can > > > > be seen as the relation between Life and Form. And the Form -=20 the > > > > Theosophical Society is clearly defined by its Rules and > > Regulations > > > > and Proceedings which have to be respected to assure that=20 voice of > > > > each individual member is heard, that the freedom of the=20 Society > > and > > > > freedom of thought is present and that the Theosophy can=20 possibly > > > > pour itself through it. The Form isn't perfect but it is the=20 best > > and > > > > the only one we have now at this given moment. It can really > > function > > > > only when the rules of the game are respected. It is like in=20 chess > > > > where moves of pieces are strictly determined. If you want to=20 move > > > > the pieces arbitrarily you can possibly force the co-player to > > accept > > > > your way of playing the game but you are not playing chess > > anymore. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Anton > > > > > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > "adelasie" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Isn't Theosophy based primarily on Centralization, one=20 Life, the > > > > > Unity of all life? Isn't it based on compassion and=20 forgiveness > > and > > > > > acceptance and non-judgementalism? Isn't it based on=20 cooperation > > > > and > > > > > altruism? Doesn't theosophy say that democracy is not the=20 best > > form > > > > > of government, but just a karmic necessity of this cycle?=20 That > > the > > > > > ideal form of government is one leader fully supported, the > > wisest > > > > > and kindest and best that can be found? > > > > > > > > > > I know! How about you, Chuck!! We would all be kept in=20 stitches > > > > > ROFLOAO and nobody would have time to snipe at each=20 other...a > > true > > > > > utopia.... > > > > > > > > > > Adelasie > > > > > > > > > > On 16 Apr 2008 at 11:46, Drpsionic@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I missed that one, perhaps just as well.? There is nothing > > > > democratic about Theosophy, either in theory or organization. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chuck the Heretic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > >=20=20 > > >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > From mkr777@gmail.com Thu Apr 17 12:25:06 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 65512 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2008 19:25:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2008 19:25:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.248) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2008 19:25:02 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c5so61432anc.12 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:25:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.122.8 with SMTP id u8mr3191015anc.103.1208460302110; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:25:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:25:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:25:01 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <48050FA8.2070102@dnainternet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <48050C94.9020904@dnainternet.net> <48050FA8.2070102@dnainternet.net> X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.248 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=XOlXYS_0Zv10I7ZXT84HjxiuqUKiUan-gXsdYftPx-USpxV5z38 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43578 While googling in cyberspace, I saw the following in the Singapore Lodge website which anyone can find: *She might have suffered a minor stroke but from all accounts she has fully recovered and is fit for another and probably last term as president. *On reading the above, one wonders if a plausible spin is put on Radha Burnier's memory by Algeo's surrogate as a convenient ruse to throw doubt on her ability to head the TS. For anyone who has been around in the USA, it is easy to understand it since it is done everyday in politics and with the hope something will stick. Again but for the Internet we would not know what kind of politicking is going on either from the candidates or their surrogates. In the circumstances, I leave it to the voters to make up their own minds. mkr On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Jokela Petri wrote: > Dear fellow Theosophist, > > I feel compelled to break the long standing prohibition against writing > political letters during an election. Since Radha Burnier herself has > now broken that tradition by sending out the letter given below to a > number of our ranks, I do not have any qualms in feeling justified to > respond to her blatant electioneering. > > I have always held Radha in great esteem and still honor her for her > tireless and capable work for the Society. However, I have seen with my > own eyes that her marvellous abilities are compromised to such an extent > that I consider her not to be the best choice for the president and > chief administrator of our organization. Her memory and clarity are > inconsistent, sometimes right on, and sometimes far afield---as is the > case for all of us > when aging, especially by stroke, takes its toll. Because she has been > such a wonderfully iron willed woman, she now apparently is mis- > applying that iron will by trying to cling to an administrative roll > that in my opinion is no longer best for the Society or best for her. > > I can see Radha maintaining a roll of leadership in the spiritual or > inner side of things as a wise counsellor, functioning well without > undue stress, but I view her continuation as the chief administrative > officer for the Theosophical Society as counter productive. We need > sharp clarity, consistency, and creative flexibility as we all work > together to keep Theosophy alive and vital in the 21st century. We need > strong leadership such as John Algeo could provide. > > As to her letter below, I will let it speak for itself, but I do have to > say that I think the reference to age is ironic. Furthermore, it is > presumptuous to indicate that John does not also have the capacity to > bring in younger workers. And it is presumptuous to define his motives > or to ascribe to him the intent to diminish the importance of Adyar as > our international center, an action he has clearly stated he is against. > If elected, John may not be able to spend all his time at Adyar, but I > have experienced him as an able administrator and delegator, and feel > assured that Adyar would flourish under his leadership. > > John has set up a web site http://www.jalgeo..com/ that you might want > to see in order to help you decide for yourself. > The upcoming election of international president of the Theosophical > Society for the next 7 years is a critical one. Please consider carefully. > With sincerity and all best wishes, > > Betty Bland, President > The Theosophical Society in America > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From MarieMAJ41@aol.com Thu Apr 17 14:14:55 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: MarieMAJ41@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 72246 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2008 21:14:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2008 21:14:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m28.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.9) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2008 21:14:52 -0000 X-Received: from MarieMAJ41@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c66.2f889bb2 (37118) for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:14:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from WEBMAIL-MA10 (webmail-ma10.webmail.aol.com [64.12.88.74]) by cia-ma01.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMA014-90fe4807bdc3279; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:14:43 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:14:43 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 24.7.215.159 In-Reply-To: <503249.99791.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36012-STANDARD X-Received: from 24.7.215.159 by WEBMAIL-MA10.sysops.aol.com (64.12.88.74) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:14:43 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA6EE730D90BCB-ED0-1D08@WEBMAIL-MA10.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.9 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MarieMAJ41@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=90655958; y=QpOr97M-T7TGk-4gAdotpZDLT-WYbiyr454Ax5X3MoiR4oRfGrI X-Yahoo-Profile: olgamarie41 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43579 Cass, in the co-freemasonic lodge that John started, and in all masonic or co-freemasonic lodges, there are established hierarchies and degrees of achievement. In John's masonic world, 33rd degree is the highest achievement, sort of like being Pope. John has a need to be the power, to be the titular head of things. It is his own personal needs and insecurities that drive him and have always driven him. This is why he is not content to be just international vice-president, he must be president. Having said this however, I do not say that he could not carry out this highest of duties, the international presidency.He could and very well so. And his protege Betty Bland is doing is bidding with the personal letter she has sent to theosophists. For this she will receive her next blessing, bestowed upon her by her supreme master, John Algeo. What the blessing is, only she and he know. But blessings there will be. He personally installed Betty as president of the TS of America, even though we?supposedly voted for her. She is now repaying the favor and increasing her own measure. That is how politics works, and how it will always work. There is no spirituality in politics.?But politics is how things get done?on our planet, isn't it? As for the vote, I intend to vote for the Theosophist, Rhada Burnier. Marie ? -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 8:19 pm Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election Seems pointless, what is the advantage of being a 33 degree Mason when HPB provided the ancient truths which HPB stated Freemasonry had lost? Thanks for your response Cass MarieMAJ41@aol.com wrote: Cass, John Algeo broke away from LeDroit Humaine and started his own masonic lodge. It was the only way that he could get the 33rd degree [that is my own opinion]. This is the reason for the masonic emphasis. Many people at the USA headquarters are members of this? masonic lodge. In fact, it is an international masonic lodge, with members from around the theosophical world, including India. Marie -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:42 am Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election Still can't find Rhada's letter. Interesting that the Freemasonry badge is part of JA's site. Cass Jokela Petri wrote: We have traditional proverb which says: stupidity tighten ups in groups. Here is he new link. Seems that there was one dot too much in between. http://www.jalgeo.com pj Cass Silva kirjoitti: > > The link didn't work Jokela, however, this 'power struggle' undermines > the three principles of theosophy and says more about the > 'personalities' of the candidates than they can imagine. The TS should > be run by a committee, a round table, although I am starting to think > that 10 theosophists in the same room would result in anarchy. > > Cass > > > > Jokela Petri > wrote: > Dear fellow Theosophist, > > I feel compelled to break the long standing prohibition against writing > political letters during an election. Since Radha Burnier herself has > now broken that tradition by sending out the letter given below to a > number of our ranks, I do not have any qualms in feeling justified to > respond to her blatant electioneering. > > I have always held Radha in great esteem and still honor her for her > tireless and capable work for the Society. However, I have seen with my > own eyes that her marvellous abilities are compromised to such an extent > that I consider her not to be the best choice for the president and > chief administrator of our organization. Her memory and clarity are > inconsistent, sometimes right on, and sometimes far afield---as is the > case for all of us > when aging, especially by stroke, takes its toll. Because she has been > such a wonderfully iron willed woman, she now apparently is mis- > applying that iron will by trying to cling to an administrative roll > that in my opinion is no longer best for the Society or best for her. > > I can see Radha maintaining a roll of leadership in the spiritual or > inner side of things as a wise counsellor, functioning well without > undue stress, but I view her continuation as the chief administrative > officer for the Theosophical Society as counter productive. We need > sharp clarity, consistency, and creative flexibility as we all work > together to keep Theosophy alive and vital in the 21st century. We need > strong leadership such as John Algeo could provide. > > As to her letter below, I will let it speak for itself, but I do have to > say that I think the reference to age is ironic. Furthermore, it is > presumptuous to indicate that John does not also have the capacity to > bring in younger workers. And it is presumptuous to define his motives > or to ascribe to him the intent to diminish the importance of Adyar as > our international center, an action he has clearly stated he is against. > If elected, John may not be able to spend all his time at Adyar, but I > have experienced him as an able administrator and delegator, and feel > assured that Adyar would flourish under his leadership. > > John has set up a web site http://www.jalgeo..com/ > that you might want > to see in order to help you decide for yourself. > The upcoming election of international president of the Theosophical > Society for the next 7 years is a critical one. Please consider carefully. > With sincerity and all best wishes, > > Betty Bland, President > The Theosophical Society in America > > between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99
Be a better friend, > newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > "> Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Thu Apr 17 14:29:48 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 57429 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2008 21:29:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2008 21:29:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.250) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2008 21:29:45 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c5so62747anc.69 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:29:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.101.71.9 with SMTP id y9mr3426236ank.64.1208467785091; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:29:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:29:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 16:29:44 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8CA6EE730D90BCB-ED0-1D08@WEBMAIL-MA10.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <503249.99791.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <8CA6EE730D90BCB-ED0-1D08@WEBMAIL-MA10.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.250 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=e10LmCLHFv1OjEZX89MxE1vxLOk1Gu_Fda3CIQpylSLioquFddc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43580 So your scenario seems to be reasonable and credible. Once he gets elected and moves the president's office to his kitchen he can then run the TS from the USA in the comfort of his home. Once the precent is set, we may see Betty appointed as the next VP -- VPs are always appointed by the president, not elected. Since she is young and can be convincingly and easily groomed to be the next international president who also can run the organization from the USA using cybertools such as video conferencing etc. Also she will not be a threat to Algeo if he runs for second term. So all pieces of puzzle seem to fall into place. Let us all keep tuned in. However, think carefully before exercising the election vote. mkr On 4/17/08, MarieMAJ41@aol.com wrote: > > > Cass, in the co-freemasonic lodge that John started, and in all masonic or > co-freemasonic lodges, there are established hierarchies and degrees of > achievement. In John's masonic world, 33rd degree is the highest > achievement, sort of like being Pope. > > John has a need to be the power, to be the titular head of things. It is > his own personal needs and insecurities that drive him and have always > driven him. > > This is why he is not content to be just international vice-president, he > must be president. Having said this however, I do not say that he could not > carry out this highest of duties, the international presidency.He could and > very well so. And his protege Betty Bland is doing is bidding with the > personal letter she has sent to theosophists. For this she will receive her > next blessing, bestowed upon her by her supreme master, John Algeo. What the > blessing is, only she and he know. But blessings there will be. He > personally installed Betty as president of the TS of America, even though > we?supposedly voted for her. She is now repaying the favor and increasing > her own measure. > > That is how politics works, and how it will always work. There is no > spirituality in politics.?But politics is how things get done?on our planet, > isn't it? As for the vote, I intend to vote for the Theosophist, Rhada > Burnier. > > Marie > ? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cass Silva > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 8:19 pm > Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election > > Seems pointless, what is the advantage of being a 33 degree Mason when HPB > provided the ancient truths which HPB stated Freemasonry had lost? Thanks > for your response > > Cass > > MarieMAJ41@aol.com wrote: > Cass, John Algeo broke away from LeDroit Humaine and started his own > masonic lodge. It was the only way that he could get the 33rd degree [that > is my own opinion]. This is the reason for the masonic emphasis. Many people > at the USA headquarters are members of this? masonic lodge. In fact, it is > an international masonic lodge, with members from around the theosophical > world, including India. > > Marie > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cass Silva > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:42 am > Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election > > Still can't find Rhada's letter. Interesting that the Freemasonry badge is > part of JA's site. > Cass > > Jokela Petri > wrote: > We have traditional proverb which says: > stupidity tighten ups in groups. > > Here is he new link. Seems that there was one dot too much in between. > http://www.jalgeo.com > > pj > > Cass Silva kirjoitti: > > > > The link didn't work Jokela, however, this 'power struggle' undermines > > the three principles of theosophy and says more about the > > 'personalities' of the candidates than they can imagine. The TS should > > be run by a committee, a round table, although I am starting to think > > that 10 theosophists in the same room would result in anarchy. > > > > Cass > > > > > > > > Jokela Petri > > >> wrote: > > Dear fellow Theosophist, > > > > I feel compelled to break the long standing prohibition against writing > > political letters during an election. Since Radha Burnier herself has > > now broken that tradition by sending out the letter given below to a > > number of our ranks, I do not have any qualms in feeling justified to > > respond to her blatant electioneering. > > > > I have always held Radha in great esteem and still honor her for her > > tireless and capable work for the Society. However, I have seen with my > > own eyes that her marvellous abilities are compromised to such an extent > > that I consider her not to be the best choice for the president and > > chief administrator of our organization. Her memory and clarity are > > inconsistent, sometimes right on, and sometimes far afield---as is the > > case for all of us > > when aging, especially by stroke, takes its toll. Because she has been > > such a wonderfully iron willed woman, she now apparently is mis- > > applying that iron will by trying to cling to an administrative roll > > that in my opinion is no longer best for the Society or best for her. > > > > I can see Radha maintaining a roll of leadership in the spiritual or > > inner side of things as a wise counsellor, functioning well without > > undue stress, but I view her continuation as the chief administrative > > officer for the Theosophical Society as counter productive. We need > > sharp clarity, consistency, and creative flexibility as we all work > > together to keep Theosophy alive and vital in the 21st century. We need > > strong leadership such as John Algeo could provide. > > > > As to her letter below, I will let it speak for itself, but I do have to > > say that I think the reference to age is ironic. Furthermore, it is > > presumptuous to indicate that John does not also have the capacity to > > bring in younger workers. And it is presumptuous to define his motives > > or to ascribe to him the intent to diminish the importance of Adyar as > > our international center, an action he has clearly stated he is against. > > If elected, John may not be able to spend all his time at Adyar, but I > > have experienced him as an able administrator and delegator, and feel > > assured that Adyar would flourish under his leadership. > > > > John has set up a web site http://www.jalgeo..com/ > > that you might want > > to see in order to help you decide for yourself. > > The upcoming election of international president of the Theosophical > > Society for the next 7 years is a critical one. Please consider > carefully. > > With sincerity and all best wishes, > > > > Betty Bland, President > > The Theosophical Society in America > > > > between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99
Be a better friend, > > newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > href=" > http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > < > http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ> > > > "> Try it now. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Thu Apr 17 14:38:03 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 21490 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2008 21:38:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2008 21:38:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m25.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.6) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2008 21:38:01 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.bcf.2343f327 (37547) for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:37:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from FWM-D40 (fwm-d40.webmail.aol.com [205.188.162.16]) by cia-mb02.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMB028-92ab4807c329368; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:37:45 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:37:45 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 69.217.164.179 In-Reply-To: <8CA6EE730D90BCB-ED0-1D08@WEBMAIL-MA10.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36012-STANDARD X-Received: from 69.217.164.179 by FWM-D40.sysops.aol.com (205.188.162.16) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:37:45 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA6EEA686DED85-27C-1AF3@FWM-D40.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.6 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=q9AJg7FkWva6of9f8wMR3eQrJIIfp0JNqaoGnkJ30pThWy1TEw X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43581 Oh good heavens!? Now I have to vote for John to find out what the extra blessings are!? The curiosity is overwhelming. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: MarieMAJ41@aol.com To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 4:14 pm Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election Cass, in the co-freemasonic lodge that John started, and in all masonic or co-freemasonic lodges, there are established hierarchies and degrees of achievement. In John's masonic world, 33rd degree is the highest achievement, sort of like being Pope. John has a need to be the power, to be the titular head of things. It is his own personal needs and insecurities that drive him and have always driven him. This is why he is not content to be just international vice-president, he must be president. Having said this however, I do not say that he could not carry out this highest of duties, the international presidency.He could and very well so. And his protege Betty Bland is doing is bidding with the personal letter she has sent to theosophists. For this she will receive her next blessing, bestowed upon her by her supreme master, John Algeo. What the blessing is, only she and he know. But blessings there will be. He personally installed Betty as president of the TS of America, even though we?supposedly voted for her. She is now repaying the favor and increasing her own measure. That is how politics works, and how it will always work. There is no spirituality in politics.?But politics is how things get done?on our planet, isn't it? As for the vote, I intend to vote for the Theosophist, Rhada Burnier. Marie ? -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 8:19 pm Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election Seems pointless, what is the advantage of being a 33 degree Mason when HPB provided the ancient truths which HPB stated Freemasonry had lost? Thanks for your response Cass MarieMAJ41@aol.com wrote: Cass, John Algeo broke away from LeDroit Humaine and started his own masonic lodge. It was the only way that he could get the 33rd degree [that is my own opinion]. This is the reason for the masonic emphasis. Many people at the USA headquarters are members of this? masonic lodge. In fact, it is an international masonic lodge, with members from around the theosophical world, including India. Marie -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:42 am Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election Still can't find Rhada's letter. Interesting that the Freemasonry badge is part of JA's site. Cass Jokela Petri wrote: We have traditional proverb which says: stupidity tighten ups in groups. Here is he new link. Seems that there was one dot too much in between. http://www.jalgeo.com pj Cass Silva kirjoitti: > > The link didn't work Jokela, however, this 'power struggle' undermines > the three principles of theosophy and says more about the > 'personalities' of the candidates than they can imagine. The TS should > be run by a committee, a round table, although I am starting to think > that 10 theosophists in the same room would result in anarchy. > > Cass > > > > Jokela Petri > wrote: > Dear fellow Theosophist, > > I feel compelled to break the long standing prohibition against writing > political letters during an election. Since Radha Burnier herself has > now broken that tradition by sending out the letter given below to a > number of our ranks, I do not have any qualms in feeling justified to > respond to her blatant electioneering. > > I have always held Radha in great esteem and still honor her for her > tireless and capable work for the Society. However, I have seen with my > own eyes that her marvellous abilities are compromised to such an extent > that I consider her not to be the best choice for the president and > chief administrator of our organization. Her memory and clarity are > inconsistent, sometimes right on, and sometimes far afield---as is the > case for all of us > when aging, especially by stroke, takes its toll. Because she has been > such a wonderfully iron willed woman, she now apparently is mis- > applying that iron will by trying to cling to an administrative roll > that in my opinion is no longer best for the Society or best for her. > > I can see Radha maintaining a roll of leadership in the spiritual or > inner side of things as a wise counsellor, functioning well without > undue stress, but I view her continuation as the chief administrative > officer for the Theosophical Society as counter productive. We need > sharp clarity, consistency, and creative flexibility as we all work > together to keep Theosophy alive and vital in the 21st century. We need > strong leadership such as John Algeo could provide. > > As to her letter below, I will let it speak for itself, but I do have to > say that I think the reference to age is ironic. Furthermore, it is > presumptuous to indicate that John does not also have the capacity to > bring in younger workers. And it is presumptuous to define his motives > or to ascribe to him the intent to diminish the importance of Adyar as > our international center, an action he has clearly stated he is against. > If elected, John may not be able to spend all his time at Adyar, but I > have experienced him as an able administrator and delegator, and feel > assured that Adyar would flourish under his leadership. > > John has set up a web site http://www.jalgeo..com/ > that you might want > to see in order to help you decide for yourself. > The upcoming election of international president of the Theosophical > Society for the next 7 years is a critical one. Please consider carefully. > With sincerity and all best wishes, > > Betty Bland, President > The Theosophical Society in America > > between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99
Be a better friend, > newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > "> Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Thu Apr 17 14:40:30 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 37366 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2008 21:40:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Apr 2008 21:40:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m27.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.8) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2008 21:40:28 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.bc9.26b4b964 (37570) for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:40:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from FWM-D40 (fwm-d40.webmail.aol.com [205.188.162.16]) by cia-mb04.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMB047-92c24807c3c610; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:40:23 -0400 References: <503249.99791.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <8CA6EE730D90BCB-ED0-1D08@WEBMAIL-MA10.sysops.aol.com> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:40:22 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 69.217.164.179 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36012-STANDARD X-Received: from 69.217.164.179 by FWM-D40.sysops.aol.com (205.188.162.16) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:40:22 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA6EEAC601C445-27C-1B15@FWM-D40.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.8 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=QiEShXkqrcgUIHYCt2PZLR9Rl0WblhncwXYG1NrBM2SWqAOrHw X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43582 I have always wondered why anyone would want the job of international vp.? Now I really wonder.? Has the TS really gone completely insane or is it just some peculiar phenomenon associated with these folks.? Of course I never thought of the position as a blessing before... Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: MKR To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 4:29 pm Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election So your scenario seems to be reasonable and credible. Once he gets elected and moves the president's office to his kitchen he can then run the TS from the USA in the comfort of his home. Once the precent is set, we may see Betty appointed as the next VP -- VPs are always appointed by the president, not elected. Since she is young and can be convincingly and easily groomed to be the next international president who also can run the organization from the USA using cybertools such as video conferencing etc. Also she will not be a threat to Algeo if he runs for second term. So all pieces of puzzle seem to fall into place. Let us all keep tuned in. However, think carefully before exercising the election vote. mkr On 4/17/08, MarieMAJ41@aol.com wrote: > > > Cass, in the co-freemasonic lodge that John started, and in all masonic or > co-freemasonic lodges, there are established hierarchies and degrees of > achievement. In John's masonic world, 33rd degree is the highest > achievement, sort of like being Pope. > > John has a need to be the power, to be the titular head of things. It is > his own personal needs and insecurities that drive him and have always > driven him. > > This is why he is not content to be just international vice-president, he > must be president. Having said this however, I do not say that he could not > carry out this highest of duties, the international presidency.He could and > very well so. And his protege Betty Bland is doing is bidding with the > personal letter she has sent to theosophists. For this she will receive her > next blessing, bestowed upon her by her supreme master, John Algeo. What the > blessing is, only she and he know. But blessings there will be. He > personally installed Betty as president of the TS of America, even though > we?supposedly voted for her. She is now repaying the favor and increasing > her own measure. > > That is how politics works, and how it will always work. There is no > spirituality in politics.?But politics is how things get done?on our planet, > isn't it? As for the vote, I intend to vote for the Theosophist, Rhada > Burnier. > > Marie > ? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cass Silva > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 8:19 pm > Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election > > Seems pointless, what is the advantage of being a 33 degree Mason when HPB > provided the ancient truths which HPB stated Freemasonry had lost? Thanks > for your response > > Cass > > MarieMAJ41@aol.com wrote: > Cass, John Algeo broke away from LeDroit Humaine and started his own > masonic lodge. It was the only way that he could get the 33rd degree [that > is my own opinion]. This is the reason for the masonic emphasis. Many people > at the USA headquarters are members of this? masonic lodge. In fact, it is > an international masonic lodge, with members from around the theosophical > world, including India. > > Marie > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cass Silva > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:42 am > Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election > > Still can't find Rhada's letter. Interesting that the Freemasonry badge is > part of JA's site. > Cass > > Jokela Petri > wrote: > We have traditional proverb which says: > stupidity tighten ups in groups. > > Here is he new link. Seems that there was one dot too much in between. > http://www.jalgeo.com > > pj > > Cass Silva kirjoitti: > > > > The link didn't work Jokela, however, this 'power struggle' undermines > > the three principles of theosophy and says more about the > > 'personalities' of the candidates than they can imagine. The TS should > > be run by a committee, a round table, although I am starting to think > > that 10 theosophists in the same room would result in anarchy. > > > > Cass > > > > > > > > Jokela Petri > > >> wrote: > > Dear fellow Theosophist, > > > > I feel compelled to break the long standing prohibition against writing > > political letters during an election. Since Radha Burnier herself has > > now broken that tradition by sending out the letter given below to a > > number of our ranks, I do not have any qualms in feeling justified to > > respond to her blatant electioneering. > > > > I have always held Radha in great esteem and still honor her for her > > tireless and capable work for the Society. However, I have seen with my > > own eyes that her marvellous abilities are compromised to such an extent > > that I consider her not to be the best choice for the president and > > chief administrator of our organization. Her memory and clarity are > > inconsistent, sometimes right on, and sometimes far afield---as is the > > case for all of us > > when aging, especially by stroke, takes its toll. Because she has been > > such a wonderfully iron willed woman, she now apparently is mis- > > applying that iron will by trying to cling to an administrative roll > > that in my opinion is no longer best for the Society or best for her. > > > > I can see Radha maintaining a roll of leadership in the spiritual or > > inner side of things as a wise counsellor, functioning well without > > undue stress, but I view her continuation as the chief administrative > > officer for the Theosophical Society as counter productive. We need > > sharp clarity, consistency, and creative flexibility as we all work > > together to keep Theosophy alive and vital in the 21st century. We need > > strong leadership such as John Algeo could provide. > > > > As to her letter below, I will let it speak for itself, but I do have to > > say that I think the reference to age is ironic. Furthermore, it is > > presumptuous to indicate that John does not also have the capacity to > > bring in younger workers. And it is presumptuous to define his motives > > or to ascribe to him the intent to diminish the importance of Adyar as > > our international center, an action he has clearly stated he is against. > > If elected, John may not be able to spend all his time at Adyar, but I > > have experienced him as an able administrator and delegator, and feel > > assured that Adyar would flourish under his leadership. > > > > John has set up a web site http://www.jalgeo..com/ > > that you might want > > to see in order to help you decide for yourself. > > The upcoming election of international president of the Theosophical > > Society for the next 7 years is a critical one. Please consider > carefully. > > With sincerity and all best wishes, > > > > Betty Bland, President > > The Theosophical Society in America > > > > between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99
Be a better friend, > > newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > href=" > http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > < > http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ> > > > "> Try it now. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Thu Apr 17 19:07:53 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 14193 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2008 02:07:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Apr 2008 02:07:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52111.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.114) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Apr 2008 02:07:50 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 73113 invoked by uid 60001); 18 Apr 2008 02:07:50 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: EjFHe5cVM1nj50E5QumyqeG9yLeTCh0NRcZ27gDGFCSkvKHwUFHH0fAhI7uydoTRyg-- X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52111.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 19:07:50 PDT Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 19:07:50 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8CA6EE730D90BCB-ED0-1D08@WEBMAIL-MA10.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <318922.72516.qm@web52111.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.114 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=pIsx7r3KVjCY0ECfnOtvZnQIpEFg6jGn91tt5a-GPlKPmIDs5A X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43583 I don't know Marie, one can't wait to take power and the other doesn't want to let go of the power. Neither are satisfactory candidates imo. Why are there only 2 candidates and who does the selection process? Cass MarieMAJ41@aol.com wrote: Cass, in the co-freemasonic lodge that John started, and in all masonic or co-freemasonic lodges, there are established hierarchies and degrees of achievement. In John's masonic world, 33rd degree is the highest achievement, sort of like being Pope. John has a need to be the power, to be the titular head of things. It is his own personal needs and insecurities that drive him and have always driven him. This is why he is not content to be just international vice-president, he must be president. Having said this however, I do not say that he could not carry out this highest of duties, the international presidency.He could and very well so. And his protege Betty Bland is doing is bidding with the personal letter she has sent to theosophists. For this she will receive her next blessing, bestowed upon her by her supreme master, John Algeo. What the blessing is, only she and he know. But blessings there will be. He personally installed Betty as president of the TS of America, even though we?supposedly voted for her. She is now repaying the favor and increasing her own measure. That is how politics works, and how it will always work. There is no spirituality in politics.?But politics is how things get done?on our planet, isn't it? As for the vote, I intend to vote for the Theosophist, Rhada Burnier. Marie ? -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 8:19 pm Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election Seems pointless, what is the advantage of being a 33 degree Mason when HPB provided the ancient truths which HPB stated Freemasonry had lost? Thanks for your response Cass MarieMAJ41@aol.com wrote: Cass, John Algeo broke away from LeDroit Humaine and started his own masonic lodge. It was the only way that he could get the 33rd degree [that is my own opinion]. This is the reason for the masonic emphasis. Many people at the USA headquarters are members of this? masonic lodge. In fact, it is an international masonic lodge, with members from around the theosophical world, including India. Marie -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:42 am Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election Still can't find Rhada's letter. Interesting that the Freemasonry badge is part of JA's site. Cass Jokela Petri wrote: We have traditional proverb which says: stupidity tighten ups in groups. Here is he new link. Seems that there was one dot too much in between. http://www.jalgeo.com pj Cass Silva kirjoitti: > > The link didn't work Jokela, however, this 'power struggle' undermines > the three principles of theosophy and says more about the > 'personalities' of the candidates than they can imagine. The TS should > be run by a committee, a round table, although I am starting to think > that 10 theosophists in the same room would result in anarchy. > > Cass > > > > Jokela Petri > wrote: > Dear fellow Theosophist, > > I feel compelled to break the long standing prohibition against writing > political letters during an election. Since Radha Burnier herself has > now broken that tradition by sending out the letter given below to a > number of our ranks, I do not have any qualms in feeling justified to > respond to her blatant electioneering. > > I have always held Radha in great esteem and still honor her for her > tireless and capable work for the Society. However, I have seen with my > own eyes that her marvellous abilities are compromised to such an extent > that I consider her not to be the best choice for the president and > chief administrator of our organization. Her memory and clarity are > inconsistent, sometimes right on, and sometimes far afield---as is the > case for all of us > when aging, especially by stroke, takes its toll. Because she has been > such a wonderfully iron willed woman, she now apparently is mis- > applying that iron will by trying to cling to an administrative roll > that in my opinion is no longer best for the Society or best for her. > > I can see Radha maintaining a roll of leadership in the spiritual or > inner side of things as a wise counsellor, functioning well without > undue stress, but I view her continuation as the chief administrative > officer for the Theosophical Society as counter productive. We need > sharp clarity, consistency, and creative flexibility as we all work > together to keep Theosophy alive and vital in the 21st century. We need > strong leadership such as John Algeo could provide. > > As to her letter below, I will let it speak for itself, but I do have to > say that I think the reference to age is ironic. Furthermore, it is > presumptuous to indicate that John does not also have the capacity to > bring in younger workers. And it is presumptuous to define his motives > or to ascribe to him the intent to diminish the importance of Adyar as > our international center, an action he has clearly stated he is against. > If elected, John may not be able to spend all his time at Adyar, but I > have experienced him as an able administrator and delegator, and feel > assured that Adyar would flourish under his leadership. > > John has set up a web site http://www.jalgeo..com/ > that you might want > to see in order to help you decide for yourself. > The upcoming election of international president of the Theosophical > Society for the next 7 years is a critical one. Please consider carefully. > With sincerity and all best wishes, > > Betty Bland, President > The Theosophical Society in America > > between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99
Be a better friend, > newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > "> Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Thu Apr 17 19:45:10 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 67974 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2008 02:45:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Apr 2008 02:45:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.245) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Apr 2008 02:45:07 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c28so105763ana.57 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 19:45:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.213.4 with SMTP id l4mr4016556ang.71.1208486707000; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 19:45:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 19:45:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 21:45:06 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <318922.72516.qm@web52111.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8CA6EE730D90BCB-ED0-1D08@WEBMAIL-MA10.sysops.aol.com> <318922.72516.qm@web52111.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.245 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=HRJL6sr5mKla0NYy-gm2ghQuGjwpN8YP7Ylsk3Tc-ZFlya6LMcg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43584 all the old guys and gals who head various sections I suppose. On 4/17/08, Cass Silva wrote: > > I don't know Marie, one can't wait to take power and the other doesn't > want to let go of the power. Neither are satisfactory candidates imo. Why > are there only 2 candidates and who does the selection process? > > Cass > > MarieMAJ41@aol.com wrote: > > Cass, in the co-freemasonic lodge that John started, and in all masonic or > co-freemasonic lodges, there are established hierarchies and degrees of > achievement. In John's masonic world, 33rd degree is the highest > achievement, sort of like being Pope. > > John has a need to be the power, to be the titular head of things. It is > his own personal needs and insecurities that drive him and have always > driven him. > > This is why he is not content to be just international vice-president, he > must be president. Having said this however, I do not say that he could not > carry out this highest of duties, the international presidency.He could and > very well so. And his protege Betty Bland is doing is bidding with the > personal letter she has sent to theosophists. For this she will receive her > next blessing, bestowed upon her by her supreme master, John Algeo. What the > blessing is, only she and he know. But blessings there will be. He > personally installed Betty as president of the TS of America, even though > we?supposedly voted for her. She is now repaying the favor and increasing > her own measure. > > That is how politics works, and how it will always work. There is no > spirituality in politics.?But politics is how things get done?on our planet, > isn't it? As for the vote, I intend to vote for the Theosophist, Rhada > Burnier. > > Marie > ? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cass Silva > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 8:19 pm > Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election > > Seems pointless, what is the advantage of being a 33 degree Mason when HPB > provided the ancient truths which HPB stated Freemasonry had lost? Thanks > for your response > > Cass > > MarieMAJ41@aol.com wrote: > Cass, John Algeo broke away from LeDroit Humaine and started his own > masonic lodge. It was the only way that he could get the 33rd degree [that > is my own opinion]. This is the reason for the masonic emphasis. Many people > at the USA headquarters are members of this? masonic lodge. In fact, it is > an international masonic lodge, with members from around the theosophical > world, including India. > > Marie > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cass Silva > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:42 am > Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election > > Still can't find Rhada's letter. Interesting that the Freemasonry badge is > part of JA's site. > Cass > > Jokela Petri > wrote: > We have traditional proverb which says: > stupidity tighten ups in groups. > > Here is he new link. Seems that there was one dot too much in between. > http://www.jalgeo.com > > pj > > Cass Silva kirjoitti: > > > > The link didn't work Jokela, however, this 'power struggle' undermines > > the three principles of theosophy and says more about the > > 'personalities' of the candidates than they can imagine. The TS should > > be run by a committee, a round table, although I am starting to think > > that 10 theosophists in the same room would result in anarchy. > > > > Cass > > > > > > > > Jokela Petri > > >> wrote: > > Dear fellow Theosophist, > > > > I feel compelled to break the long standing prohibition against writing > > political letters during an election. Since Radha Burnier herself has > > now broken that tradition by sending out the letter given below to a > > number of our ranks, I do not have any qualms in feeling justified to > > respond to her blatant electioneering. > > > > I have always held Radha in great esteem and still honor her for her > > tireless and capable work for the Society. However, I have seen with my > > own eyes that her marvellous abilities are compromised to such an extent > > that I consider her not to be the best choice for the president and > > chief administrator of our organization. Her memory and clarity are > > inconsistent, sometimes right on, and sometimes far afield---as is the > > case for all of us > > when aging, especially by stroke, takes its toll. Because she has been > > such a wonderfully iron willed woman, she now apparently is mis- > > applying that iron will by trying to cling to an administrative roll > > that in my opinion is no longer best for the Society or best for her. > > > > I can see Radha maintaining a roll of leadership in the spiritual or > > inner side of things as a wise counsellor, functioning well without > > undue stress, but I view her continuation as the chief administrative > > officer for the Theosophical Society as counter productive. We need > > sharp clarity, consistency, and creative flexibility as we all work > > together to keep Theosophy alive and vital in the 21st century. We need > > strong leadership such as John Algeo could provide. > > > > As to her letter below, I will let it speak for itself, but I do have to > > say that I think the reference to age is ironic. Furthermore, it is > > presumptuous to indicate that John does not also have the capacity to > > bring in younger workers. And it is presumptuous to define his motives > > or to ascribe to him the intent to diminish the importance of Adyar as > > our international center, an action he has clearly stated he is against. > > If elected, John may not be able to spend all his time at Adyar, but I > > have experienced him as an able administrator and delegator, and feel > > assured that Adyar would flourish under his leadership. > > > > John has set up a web site http://www.jalgeo..com/ > > that you might want > > to see in order to help you decide for yourself. > > The upcoming election of international president of the Theosophical > > Society for the next 7 years is a critical one. Please consider > carefully. > > With sincerity and all best wishes, > > > > Betty Bland, President > > The Theosophical Society in America > > > > between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99
Be a better friend, > > newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > href=" > http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > < > http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ> > > > "> Try it now. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Thu Apr 17 22:07:51 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4769 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2008 05:07:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Apr 2008 05:07:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m11.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.99) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Apr 2008 05:07:48 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d1f.21c48906 (37569) for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2008 01:07:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from MBLK-M42 (mblk-m42.mblk.aol.com [64.12.136.86]) by cia-mb04.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMB046-92c148082c9d90; Fri, 18 Apr 2008 01:07:41 -0400 References: <8CA6EE730D90BCB-ED0-1D08@WEBMAIL-MA10.sysops.aol.com> <318922.72516.qm@web52111.mail.re2.yahoo.com> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 01:07:40 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 69.217.164.179 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36012-STANDARD X-Received: from 69.217.164.179 by MBLK-M42.sysops.aol.com (64.12.136.86) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 18 Apr 2008 01:07:40 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA6F29424F5ABC-1014-27A0@MBLK-M42.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.143.99 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=OtWQ2lgPRpT0kPSZBGa408CLE8nGI59nn5Z3tYzS0KLI_pctPA X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43585 Apparently they write the names on their prune pits and throw them into a bowl and the one with the most pits get nominated. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: MKR To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 9:45 pm Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election all the old guys and gals who head various sections I suppose. On 4/17/08, Cass Silva wrote: > > I don't know Marie, one can't wait to take power and the other doesn't > want to let go of the power. Neither are satisfactory candidates imo. Why > are there only 2 candidates and who does the selection process? > > Cass > > MarieMAJ41@aol.com wrote: > > Cass, in the co-freemasonic lodge that John started, and in all masonic or > co-freemasonic lodges, there are established hierarchies and degrees of > achievement. In John's masonic world, 33rd degree is the highest > achievement, sort of like being Pope. > > John has a need to be the power, to be the titular head of things. It is > his own personal needs and insecurities that drive him and have always > driven him. > > This is why he is not content to be just international vice-president, he > must be president. Having said this however, I do not say that he could not > carry out this highest of duties, the international presidency.He could and > very well so. And his protege Betty Bland is doing is bidding with the > personal letter she has sent to theosophists. For this she will receive her > next blessing, bestowed upon her by her supreme master, John Algeo. What the > blessing is, only she and he know. But blessings there will be. He > personally installed Betty as president of the TS of America, even though > we?supposedly voted for her. She is now repaying the favor and increasing > her own measure. > > That is how politics works, and how it will always work. There is no > spirituality in politics.?But politics is how things get done?on our planet, > isn't it? As for the vote, I intend to vote for the Theosophist, Rhada > Burnier. > > Marie > ? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cass Silva > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 8:19 pm > Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election > > Seems pointless, what is the advantage of being a 33 degree Mason when HPB > provided the ancient truths which HPB stated Freemasonry had lost? Thanks > for your response > > Cass > > MarieMAJ41@aol.com wrote: > Cass, John Algeo broke away from LeDroit Humaine and started his own > masonic lodge. It was the only way that he could get the 33rd degree [that > is my own opinion]. This is the reason for the masonic emphasis. Many people > at the USA headquarters are members of this? masonic lodge. In fact, it is > an international masonic lodge, with members from around the theosophical > world, including India. > > Marie > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cass Silva > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:42 am > Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election > > Still can't find Rhada's letter. Interesting that the Freemasonry badge is > part of JA's site. > Cass > > Jokela Petri > wrote: > We have traditional proverb which says: > stupidity tighten ups in groups. > > Here is he new link. Seems that there was one dot too much in between. > http://www.jalgeo.com > > pj > > Cass Silva kirjoitti: > > > > The link didn't work Jokela, however, this 'power struggle' undermines > > the three principles of theosophy and says more about the > > 'personalities' of the candidates than they can imagine. The TS should > > be run by a committee, a round table, although I am starting to think > > that 10 theosophists in the same room would result in anarchy. > > > > Cass > > > > > > > > Jokela Petri > > >> wrote: > > Dear fellow Theosophist, > > > > I feel compelled to break the long standing prohibition against writing > > political letters during an election. Since Radha Burnier herself has > > now broken that tradition by sending out the letter given below to a > > number of our ranks, I do not have any qualms in feeling justified to > > respond to her blatant electioneering. > > > > I have always held Radha in great esteem and still honor her for her > > tireless and capable work for the Society. However, I have seen with my > > own eyes that her marvellous abilities are compromised to such an extent > > that I consider her not to be the best choice for the president and > > chief administrator of our organization. Her memory and clarity are > > inconsistent, sometimes right on, and sometimes far afield---as is the > > case for all of us > > when aging, especially by stroke, takes its toll. Because she has been > > such a wonderfully iron willed woman, she now apparently is mis- > > applying that iron will by trying to cling to an administrative roll > > that in my opinion is no longer best for the Society or best for her. > > > > I can see Radha maintaining a roll of leadership in the spiritual or > > inner side of things as a wise counsellor, functioning well without > > undue stress, but I view her continuation as the chief administrative > > officer for the Theosophical Society as counter productive. We need > > sharp clarity, consistency, and creative flexibility as we all work > > together to keep Theosophy alive and vital in the 21st century. We need > > strong leadership such as John Algeo could provide. > > > > As to her letter below, I will let it speak for itself, but I do have to > > say that I think the reference to age is ironic. Furthermore, it is > > presumptuous to indicate that John does not also have the capacity to > > bring in younger workers. And it is presumptuous to define his motives > > or to ascribe to him the intent to diminish the importance of Adyar as > > our international center, an action he has clearly stated he is against. > > If elected, John may not be able to spend all his time at Adyar, but I > > have experienced him as an able administrator and delegator, and feel > > assured that Adyar would flourish under his leadership. > > > > John has set up a web site http://www.jalgeo..com/ > > that you might want > > to see in order to help you decide for yourself. > > The upcoming election of international president of the Theosophical > > Society for the next 7 years is a critical one. Please consider > carefully. > > With sincerity and all best wishes, > > > > Betty Bland, President > > The Theosophical Society in America > > > > between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99
Be a better friend, > > newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > href=" > http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > < > http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ> > > > "> Try it now. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Thu Apr 17 22:13:17 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 75127 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2008 05:13:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Apr 2008 05:13:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wx-out-0506.google.com) (66.249.82.228) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Apr 2008 05:13:15 -0000 X-Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id h28so533673wxd.0 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 22:13:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.41.15 with SMTP id o15mr4300733ano.48.1208495594842; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 22:13:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 22:13:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 00:13:14 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8CA6F29424F5ABC-1014-27A0@MBLK-M42.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8CA6EE730D90BCB-ED0-1D08@WEBMAIL-MA10.sysops.aol.com> <318922.72516.qm@web52111.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <8CA6F29424F5ABC-1014-27A0@MBLK-M42.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: 66.249.82.228 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=CEQ-vLeEDdmkb8Xn9kOIpBoHJmqdwu2VCJtpfayVDKx9c2RnGfc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43586 No black balling? On 4/18/08, Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > > Apparently they write the names on their prune pits and throw them into a > bowl and the one with the most pits get nominated. > > Chuck the Heretic > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > to stay informed > > on Groups news! > . > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Thu Apr 17 22:22:34 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 25659 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2008 05:22:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Apr 2008 05:22:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.242) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Apr 2008 05:22:34 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c37so124921anc.31 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 22:22:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.190.14 with SMTP id n14mr4249711anf.142.1208496150493; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 22:22:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 22:22:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 00:22:30 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8CA6F29424F5ABC-1014-27A0@MBLK-M42.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8CA6EE730D90BCB-ED0-1D08@WEBMAIL-MA10.sysops.aol.com> <318922.72516.qm@web52111.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <8CA6F29424F5ABC-1014-27A0@MBLK-M42.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.242 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=C2yJg8HOhqq0pFf3EmqC6qAGWNA1asFemyGm8MXaCpuZod9s3u4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43587 Looks like there is some new innovation at International level. It appears that, the ballot will contain the names of nominators so there is subtle msg to the voters who may be swayed by the names of nominators they are familiar with or obligated to. This is a clever technique which has been tested and perfected in the USA in the "democratic" election system. It would be interesting see how far it works this time in favor of new challenger. If any of you run into any new interesting info, feel free to share with everyone. Democracy will triumph in the long run and Internet is there to help. mkr On 4/18/08, Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > > Apparently they write the names on their prune pits and throw them into a > bowl and the one with the most pits get nominated. > > Chuck the Heretic > > on Yahoo! Groups > > Find garden, home > > & auto groups. > Y! Groups blog > > The place to go > > to stay informed > > on Groups news! > . > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Fri Apr 18 04:47:04 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 83315 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2008 11:47:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Apr 2008 11:47:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO hs-out-0708.google.com) (64.233.178.247) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Apr 2008 11:47:01 -0000 X-Received: by hs-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id x43so352052hsb.3 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2008 04:47:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.101.69.6 with SMTP id w6mr4984358ank.92.1208519220949; Fri, 18 Apr 2008 04:47:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Fri, 18 Apr 2008 04:47:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 06:47:00 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 64.233.178.247 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS Presidential Election - More on Politicking X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=-PF0LgN4I57ZpF2Tcwfp6xXKGOXFhJGGCSKf7kttnQfzJXoFGxY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43588 I just saw a msg from Pedro which will be of interest to readers here. Here is the full msg. mkr ====================================================================== Below is my personal response to Betty Bland's accusatory email message against Radha Burnier. While Radha's letter was sent, by ordinary mail, in her personal (not official) letterhead, to all General Secretaries in the TS, Bland's email message was sent to the former as well as to dozens of individuals worldwide, including some in Australia and New Zealand. Pedro Oliveira To the Members of the Theosophical Society As in a recent email message the National President of the TS in America, Betty Bland, has accused Mrs Radha Burnier of electioneering, I am compelled to present my testimony of serious facts that happened at Adyar, the International Headquarters of the TS, last December. I hereby take full and personal responsibility for what I state. On 18 December 2007 Mary Anderson, International Secretary, issued, under the Rules of the TS, a call for nominations for the office of President. I understand that a number of such letters were hand delivered immediately to those members of the General Council who were at Adyar at that time. After arriving at Adyar on 14 December 2007 to take part in the International Convention, I soon became aware of rumours that a few resident workers there were planning to write a letter to the members of the General Council, not only about their perception of Mrs Burnier's health but also about who they supported as a candidate in the upcoming election. A long-time resident at Adyar told me personally that one of the members of this group read out to her on the phone the text of the proposed letter. She mentioned to me that she told the person concerned that she did not want to have anything to do with such a letter. On 23 December 2007, while checking my messages at an Internet cafe outside the compound, there was a message forwarded to me by Ricardo Lindemann, National President of the TS in Brazil. It contained a message from Elvira Carbonell, dated 19 December 2007, who was at that time assistant to the International Secretary, Mary Anderson, addressed him as "Dear General Council member, Mr Lindemann". What was rumour had become a reality. I understand that the same letter was sent to many other Council members by two other residents at Adyar. As it can be seen from dates mentioned above, Ms Carbonell's letter was sent by email on the day after the official nomination papers had been sent out by Ms Anderson. As the nomination papers were sent by regular mail to the overwhelming majority of General Council members living overseas, such letter, sent by electronic means, would be likely to reach many of them before the official papers were received by regular mail. Below, I reproduce some passages from Ms Carbonell's letter in italics, followed by a few comments. The full text of her letter is reproduced at the end of this letter. "Since there has been uncertainty about the state of our President's health and our Vice-President's willingness and ability to accept nominations for the upcoming Presidential election, several of us at Adyar feel the need to write to the members of the General Council to share the following information." While at Adyar in December 2007 I had several visits with the President. I found her to be in good spirits, cheerful, energetic, aware that her memory for names was faulty at times, but in good health. This is also the opinion of her doctors. At the opening of the Convention, on 26 December, she read out her Presidential Address for around one and a half hours, standing before the assembled delegates. Dr Duzan Zagar, Organising Secretary for the TS in Slovenia and who is a medical doctor, neurologist and psychiatrist, visited the President during his stay at Adyar in December 2007, saw her recent test results and declared that she was in good health. She had had a stroke in November 2006. Therefore in the light of expert medical advice Ms Carbonell's comments on the President's health at that time were uncalled for, inappropriate and manipulative, for they represented a blatant attempt to unduly influence the opinion and decision-making process of the General Council members. It is important to note that, through his silence, the Vice- President, Dr John Algeo, tacitly approved mention of his intentions in Ms Carbonell's letter and as a result allowed himself to be presented as willing to accept nominations for the office of President even before the great majority of Council members residing overseas would have received their nomination papers! The statement in Ms Carbonell's letter used the authority of the position of Vice- President of the Theosophical Society to unduly, inappropriately and unethically attempt to influence members of the General Council, the governing body of the TS. Her letter, therefore, compromised the nomination process. "We have learned that our Vice-President has been asked if he will accept nominations, and have confirmation from him that although he is not eager to run for President, he will do what seems to be in the best interest of the Society when the time comes, and he will accept nominations. We have also received confirmation from him that he feels Adyar has to remain the international Headquarters of the TS, for both practical and symbolical reasons." The above paragraph presents further clear evidence that the Vice- President, Dr Algeo, not only knew of this action of Ms Carbonell but definitely condoned it. I understand that at the General Council meeting at Adyar, on 25 December 2007, when Ms Carbonell's letter was read out by the President, the Vice-President remained noticeably silent. Ms Cabonell's letter thus presented elements of a political platform for the Vice-President as a candidate in the Presidential election when the great majority of the General Council members would not have received their nomination papers. Such action violates the universal principle of free and fair elections which is enshrined on the Rules of the TS. In the light of the above considerations Mrs Radha Burnier, about whom some presumptions were made in Ms Carbonell's letter to some General Council members, of necessity, as is her right, has had to state her position and her intentions in relation to the forthcoming election for international President. Yours sincerely, Pedro Oliveira Sydney, Australia (Below is the letter of Elvira Carbonell to Ricardo Lindemann, National President of the TS in Brazil and General Council member of the Society, received on 19 December 2007 by email.) Dear General Council member, Mr Lindemann: Since there has been uncertainty about the state of our President's health and our Vice-President's willingness and ability to accept nominations for the upcoming Presidential election, several of us at Adyar feel the need to write to members of the General Council to share the following information. Many of us at Adyar are concerned that our President will be putting an unnecessary burden on herself and her prospects for continued recovery if she runs for another term. Because of our deep regard for her and the Society, we would like to see her live as long as possible as a wise counsel and guide to whoever gets elected as the next President of the Theosophical Society. We have learned that our Vice-President has been asked if he will accept nominations, and have confirmation from him that although he is not eager to run for President, he will do what seems to be in the best interest of the Society when the time comes, and he will accept nominations. We have also received confirmation from him that he feels Adyar has to remain the international Headquarters of the TS, for both practical and symbolical reasons. We hope that others who are qualified and have the best interest of the Society at heart will make themselves available as nominees in a non-adversarial spirit, as having several candidates on the ballot will ensure a wider choice of experience and abilities, which can only benefit our Society. Fraternally yours, Ms Elvira Carbonell Theosophical Society, Adyar, India [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Fri Apr 18 05:04:43 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 1012 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2008 12:04:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Apr 2008 12:04:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.243) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Apr 2008 12:04:40 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c16so132316ana.54 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2008 05:04:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.251.18 with SMTP id y18mr4998343anh.126.1208520279866; Fri, 18 Apr 2008 05:04:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Fri, 18 Apr 2008 05:04:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 07:04:39 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.243 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS President Election - French View X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=3iZyXAHo-9fpM4nt3MnfL09GNQ08DervNkC9EEU_ne5UiHy-n3s Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43589 Here is a msg Pedro posted on theos-l. Since the contents are of interest to many of us, I am posting it here. mkr =================================================================================== I copy below correspondence sent to all French TS members eligible to vote in the current Presidential election. It makes for interesting reading if it did not contain a number of glaring untruths. Contrary to what is said in the letter below, Radha Burnier delivered her Presidential Address, while standing, for one and a half hours, before an audience of over 1,100 members. She read out her Convention lecture, which was interspersed with comments by her. I had several conversations with her at Adyar in December 2007 and while her memory for names is faulty at times, of which she is aware, her judgment and perception are very clear. In my next posting I will mention some interesting facts which took place at Adyar when the official nomination papers for the current election were being issued. In my files I have an extract from The Theosophist, September 1947, by C. Jinarajadasa, which reads as follows: When the President-Founder, Colonel Olcott, lay dying in Adyar, he read a letter of 7 January 1907 to Dr. Annie Besant with certain requests. One request was as follows: "I desire that so long as there are sufficient funds to make it possible, you, and the succeeding Presidents residing at Adyar, will see that the place is well cared for, and properly kept up, as the Headquarters of the Theosophical Society. Do this in memory of dear H.P.B. and myself." Pedro Oliveira Theosophical Society in France March 29 2008 Dear Members of the Theosophical Society in France, The presidential elections that take place every seven years will be held this year, 2008. The procedure stipulated in the international bylaws consists of two stages: - First of all nominations by the national Sections and the additional members of the General Council to determine the number of candidates - and to become a candidate, one has to receive at least 12 nominations; - Next, a vote by universal suffrage and secret ballot by members throughout the world with the right to vote - the candidate receiving the most votes being declared international president. The first stage - the call for nominations - began, in accordance with the international bylaws, last December 17, six months before the end of the current term of office. This first stage is now complete with the following results: - 14 (fourteen) nominations for Mrs Radha Burnier and - 21 (twenty-one) nominations for Prof. John Algeo. They have both accepted nomination. Their respective curriculum vitae will be sent to you shortly with the voting papers. Before the second stage begins - the voting itself - the National Board has a duty to inform you about Radha's state of health. In November 2006, she had a serious stroke which left her unable to speak for at least a month and deprived her of a large part of her memory. Her recovery was slow and incomplete, especially as far as short term memory and recall of names are concerned. In conversation, she no longer understands anything but short and simple sentences. Granted, in July 2007 she honoured us with her presence at the European Congress and Centenary of the Finnish Section in Helsinki. The debilitating effects of the stroke have proved impossible to overcome, however; further, she had a relapse upon her return home from Europe. The leaders of several Sections in the world present at the Convention at Adyar in December 2007 noticed with sadness and embarrassment the great difficulty with which she delivered her principal Convention address, an address that was wandering and repetitive, and showed a weakened mind or brain damage. For decades, most of these leaders had known, esteemed and admired Radha for the depth of her thought, for her devotion in serving the Theosophical Society. They were forced to face facts: in spite of their deep affection and their great esteem for Radha, the sense of duty to the Theosophical Society and its ideal, as well as concern for its future, were going to have to be put first. The great majority of the leaders of the different Sections present at the Convention have thus nominated John. This explains the nomination results. Currently and since her stroke in November 2006, Radha has been carrying out her administrative work with difficulty for a few hours each day, with the patient and devoted help of faithful workers. As a result, delays build up in spite of the devotion of those around her because she alone makes decisions, decisions that sit waiting either through forgetfulness or confusion. She no longer writes speeches; someone does them for her. Since the stroke, the editorials of the international magazine 'The Adyar Theosophist' are no longer written by her. There is an even greater risk due to the fact that she is signing letters written by some of her assistants, letters that are not in her style, one affirming that she is in good health, the other running down the 'opposition' candidate, and thus starting a campaign with political tones foreign to the theosophical ethic. The other candidate, John, is keeping his word: as he said to some leaders present at the Convention, he is not campaigning. Radha was born in November 1923; she is going on for 85 (eighty-five) yearsold. She was elected in 1979, re-elected in 1986, 1994 and 2001. She is at the end of her fourth term and hopes to do a fifth one of seven years. What would the Theosophical Society become at international level if a small group of people with doubtful intentions took advantage of Radha's present state? This is probably happening right now, even without her knowledge. The withholding of information about her real state of health seems wrong to us. We have all had numerous occasions to appreciate Radha in the past, to admire and esteem her, as most of the leaders of the world's Sections have done and for the same reasons. But our sense of duty cannot be overridden by our feelings. For sure, we loved Radha. We probably still do. And this has perhaps nothing to do with her mental state. Even so, we think that the destiny of the Theosophical Society would be even more shaken if Radha were to take on a fifth term of office. We therefore invite you to reflect seriously before the forthcoming election which will be crucial for the future direction of the Theosophical Society. Most fraternally, For the National Board Maxence Ondet National Board Secretary NB: We have learned that as of today Germany, Finland, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Sweden, the USA, Colombia and Argentina have decided to write in a similar vein to their members. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Fri Apr 18 06:54:52 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 62374 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2008 13:54:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Apr 2008 13:54:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52110.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.113) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Apr 2008 13:54:49 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 56954 invoked by uid 60001); 18 Apr 2008 13:54:49 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: aVZ943UVM1lvAMBrjCPFkl9b4pZ2sn0dM1H2x06GInYA9H_KL.aCmX_6WhOF_T5a2yciEVniD0RTlTlfCDOyctvX4WgbAEbeH_Jikq5Ogq.4dn3jKpsi2VPCk_dZNb5oMG8N_xIZEAoyPf9yDVJPNcKvnWsj2r8iNdDEoACnAEv0.pBzFcnpPx.EmlnWtZcYPcXjBPDVRNc8T8ZVyUxys1CxrG_SOjrN5rXoo6iywNA6qzXIM2QJUgNJuvL5kIXAkNK6Hwggkf9jTD26AvE8 X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52110.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 18 Apr 2008 06:54:49 PDT Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 06:54:49 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8CA6F29424F5ABC-1014-27A0@MBLK-M42.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <94075.56730.qm@web52110.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.113 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:2:2:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=2-pafgYVG7YCc4RjPlJEP6NYidCcDptgtZn9dUUcEXBgnoH09Q X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43590 Interesting and point taken on the fruit selection Cass Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: Apparently they write the names on their prune pits and throw them into a bowl and the one with the most pits get nominated. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: MKR To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 9:45 pm Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election all the old guys and gals who head various sections I suppose. On 4/17/08, Cass Silva wrote: > > I don't know Marie, one can't wait to take power and the other doesn't > want to let go of the power. Neither are satisfactory candidates imo. Why > are there only 2 candidates and who does the selection process? > > Cass > > MarieMAJ41@aol.com wrote: > > Cass, in the co-freemasonic lodge that John started, and in all masonic or > co-freemasonic lodges, there are established hierarchies and degrees of > achievement. In John's masonic world, 33rd degree is the highest > achievement, sort of like being Pope. > > John has a need to be the power, to be the titular head of things. It is > his own personal needs and insecurities that drive him and have always > driven him. > > This is why he is not content to be just international vice-president, he > must be president. Having said this however, I do not say that he could not > carry out this highest of duties, the international presidency.He could and > very well so. And his protege Betty Bland is doing is bidding with the > personal letter she has sent to theosophists. For this she will receive her > next blessing, bestowed upon her by her supreme master, John Algeo. What the > blessing is, only she and he know. But blessings there will be. He > personally installed Betty as president of the TS of America, even though > we?supposedly voted for her. She is now repaying the favor and increasing > her own measure. > > That is how politics works, and how it will always work. There is no > spirituality in politics.?But politics is how things get done?on our planet, > isn't it? As for the vote, I intend to vote for the Theosophist, Rhada > Burnier. > > Marie > ? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cass Silva > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 8:19 pm > Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election > > Seems pointless, what is the advantage of being a 33 degree Mason when HPB > provided the ancient truths which HPB stated Freemasonry had lost? Thanks > for your response > > Cass > > MarieMAJ41@aol.com wrote: > Cass, John Algeo broke away from LeDroit Humaine and started his own > masonic lodge. It was the only way that he could get the 33rd degree [that > is my own opinion]. This is the reason for the masonic emphasis. Many people > at the USA headquarters are members of this? masonic lodge. In fact, it is > an international masonic lodge, with members from around the theosophical > world, including India. > > Marie > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cass Silva > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:42 am > Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election > > Still can't find Rhada's letter. Interesting that the Freemasonry badge is > part of JA's site. > Cass > > Jokela Petri > wrote: > We have traditional proverb which says: > stupidity tighten ups in groups. > > Here is he new link. Seems that there was one dot too much in between. > http://www.jalgeo.com > > pj > > Cass Silva kirjoitti: > > > > The link didn't work Jokela, however, this 'power struggle' undermines > > the three principles of theosophy and says more about the > > 'personalities' of the candidates than they can imagine. The TS should > > be run by a committee, a round table, although I am starting to think > > that 10 theosophists in the same room would result in anarchy. > > > > Cass > > > > > > > > Jokela Petri > > >> wrote: > > Dear fellow Theosophist, > > > > I feel compelled to break the long standing prohibition against writing > > political letters during an election. Since Radha Burnier herself has > > now broken that tradition by sending out the letter given below to a > > number of our ranks, I do not have any qualms in feeling justified to > > respond to her blatant electioneering. > > > > I have always held Radha in great esteem and still honor her for her > > tireless and capable work for the Society. However, I have seen with my > > own eyes that her marvellous abilities are compromised to such an extent > > that I consider her not to be the best choice for the president and > > chief administrator of our organization. Her memory and clarity are > > inconsistent, sometimes right on, and sometimes far afield---as is the > > case for all of us > > when aging, especially by stroke, takes its toll. Because she has been > > such a wonderfully iron willed woman, she now apparently is mis- > > applying that iron will by trying to cling to an administrative roll > > that in my opinion is no longer best for the Society or best for her. > > > > I can see Radha maintaining a roll of leadership in the spiritual or > > inner side of things as a wise counsellor, functioning well without > > undue stress, but I view her continuation as the chief administrative > > officer for the Theosophical Society as counter productive. We need > > sharp clarity, consistency, and creative flexibility as we all work > > together to keep Theosophy alive and vital in the 21st century. We need > > strong leadership such as John Algeo could provide. > > > > As to her letter below, I will let it speak for itself, but I do have to > > say that I think the reference to age is ironic. Furthermore, it is > > presumptuous to indicate that John does not also have the capacity to > > bring in younger workers. And it is presumptuous to define his motives > > or to ascribe to him the intent to diminish the importance of Adyar as > > our international center, an action he has clearly stated he is against. > > If elected, John may not be able to spend all his time at Adyar, but I > > have experienced him as an able administrator and delegator, and feel > > assured that Adyar would flourish under his leadership. > > > > John has set up a web site http://www.jalgeo..com/ > > that you might want > > to see in order to help you decide for yourself. > > The upcoming election of international president of the Theosophical > > Society for the next 7 years is a critical one. Please consider > carefully. > > With sincerity and all best wishes, > > > > Betty Bland, President > > The Theosophical Society in America > > > > between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Fri Apr 18 08:41:10 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 15433 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2008 15:41:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Apr 2008 15:41:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Apr 2008 15:41:06 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c29.336d4b66 (34995) for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:41:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from FWM-D30 (fwm-d30.webmail.aol.com [205.188.162.6]) by cia-db01.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB018-88b34808c10b1e1; Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:40:59 -0400 References: <8CA6EE730D90BCB-ED0-1D08@WEBMAIL-MA10.sysops.aol.com> <318922.72516.qm@web52111.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <8CA6F29424F5ABC-1014-27A0@MBLK-M42.sysops.aol.com> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:40:59 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 69.217.164.179 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36012-STANDARD X-Received: from 69.217.164.179 by FWM-D30.sysops.aol.com (205.188.162.6) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:40:59 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA6F81BC19CA2B-860-1C0@FWM-D30.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.144.208 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=ENySmaqgTxR6M6jNyVLowggWA0k-R2Z2JTKEV3cqExFnpG9ALA X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43591 Well, sometimes they forget to take the pit out of the prune... Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: MKR To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 12:13 am Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election No black balling? On 4/18/08, Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > > Apparently they write the names on their prune pits and throw them into a > bowl and the one with the most pits get nominated. > > Chuck the Heretic > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > to stay informed > > on Groups news! > . > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Fri Apr 18 08:51:13 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 46130 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2008 15:51:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Apr 2008 15:51:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.249) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Apr 2008 15:51:11 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b21so168213ana.61 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2008 08:51:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.122.8 with SMTP id u8mr5393876anc.103.1208533868239; Fri, 18 Apr 2008 08:51:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Fri, 18 Apr 2008 08:51:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 10:51:08 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.249 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS Elections - Double Standard in TS in America? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=qWtvb_fEJFG-EWsCeaW4zem4qulW5Gy12v-J8TJ6WWQS67-p-nk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43592 It is the practice in TS in America that your address info is kept confidential and used only for official purposes and also used by affiliated organizations' fund raising, such as TOS. However, I was surprised when I received a form letter from Betty Bland, President of TS in America. It was in plain paper and not in official TSA letter head and the address apparently the home address of Betty. The implication is that the letter is from her in her personal capacity. The letter was mailed to my address as it is the membership info at Olcott. Obviously, Betty used the official mailing list addresses to mail this "personal" letter which is against all prior practice of the mailing list not being accessible to members of TS. Whatever rules apply to ordinary members like me should also apply to the President and in this case it was violated. So one wonders about the double standard adopted to further a political campaign issue, which is a very sorry state of affairs. Secondly, you may note the letter is addressed as "Dear Friend"; I am not her "friend" and I am her "Brother", since we all believe in Universal Brotherhood. In this context, I am reminded of the passage in Light of Asia, wherein when a man meets Lord Buddha, touches his feet and addresses him as "my Lord or God", Buddha takes him by his hand and says you are my "Brother". With the help of Internet, I want share the above. Here is the full text of Betty's letter. mkr PS: It may be noted that no mention is made of Algeo's apparent plans to run the Presidency remotely from his home in the USA, so that he can have the cake and as well as eat it. He did it when he was first elected to the Presidency when he lived in Georgia for the first couple of months and only later he moved to Olcott. =================================================== Betty Bland 210 West Geneva Road Wheaton IL 60187 April 11,2008 Dear friend, I would like to discuss with you the current international elections of the Theosophical Society. As you know, or will know shortly when your ballot arrives, there are two candidates running for international president. The two candidates are the incumbent, Radha Burnier who has served in office for the past 28 years, and Dr. John Algeo who is currently international vice president and has served the Theosophical Society in many capacities during that same time period. This letter is quite unusual and tradition-breaking, in that I am communicating directly with you about elections, since we Theosophists try to be non-political, recognizing that many capable persons may offer themselves for service. However, in this circumstance I think it is important to inform you of a difficult issue. I want to make perfectly clear that this is not about personalities but about what is best for the Society. Radha seems to be recovering physically from the stroke she suffered over a year ago, but, given her age, she still has periods of low energy and her memory is inconsistent. While I have deep respect for the wonderful service she has given to the Society and feel that she can continue to be useful as a wise elder, it is for the good of the whole that the leadership pass smoothly to John Algeo, who currently serves as the international Vice- president. John Algeo has the experience and capabilities to pick up the reins for the best transition and movement of the Society into the future. When I was in India this past January, I saw clearly with my own eyes the importance of making this transition now. If you would like further information about John Algeo's vision for the future, please see his website at www.ialgeo.com. I hope you seriously consider this information when casting your vote. With concern and sincerity, [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Fri Apr 18 09:17:56 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 28807 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2008 16:17:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Apr 2008 16:17:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO hs-out-0708.google.com) (64.233.178.246) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Apr 2008 16:17:55 -0000 X-Received: by hs-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id n78so505729hsc.4 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2008 09:17:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.101.71.9 with SMTP id y9mr5464899ank.64.1208535475149; Fri, 18 Apr 2008 09:17:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Fri, 18 Apr 2008 09:17:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:17:55 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 64.233.178.246 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS International Election? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=MEjWVPJYRn8CJj1RJ0kbJ3m6dzHv6Fri8PVXVcPYwyMLgSynt2g Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43593 In a footnote in the letter circulated to French members it says: NB: We have learned that as of today Germany, Finland, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Sweden, the USA, Colombia and Argentina have decided to write in a similar vein to their members. If anyone comes across letters from any of the above countries as well as any other countries, can you post it here so that we know how the campaign is fought. mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Fri Apr 18 09:45:31 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 19579 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2008 16:45:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Apr 2008 16:45:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wx-out-0506.google.com) (66.249.82.226) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Apr 2008 16:45:21 -0000 X-Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i29so573151wxd.19 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2008 09:45:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.122.8 with SMTP id u8mr5490187anc.103.1208537117733; Fri, 18 Apr 2008 09:45:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Fri, 18 Apr 2008 09:45:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:45:17 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 66.249.82.226 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS President Election - Info from Brasil X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=bgxvoycikRhWUmb8ryuw2jW0iQwOg6z1r9Y35Cqj8kUrn6c_sF0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43594 A friend sent me the following which is being sent to members in Brasil. mkr =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D Dear brothers and sisters: The upcoming election for President of the International Theosophical Society is causing much pain to many MTS. In Brazil, our National Council upheld the proposal of our General Secretar= y to back up Radha Burnier for one more term of office, her fourth, in view o= r his assurances that the incumbent President is in good health, physically and mentally, and perfectly able to carry on her duties as she has done in the past. Since that time more information has filtered down from India indicating that age, she is now 85, and a disabling stroke have taken their toll. For this reason some MTS in Brazil decided to express openly their disagreement with the proposal of our General Secretary and intend to vote for John Algeo with his platform of renewal. The number of dissenters is growing as more facts relating to Radha's condition and administration become known. While governments and institutions the world over realize the need for renewing periodically their cadres and their approaches to management, we a= t the TS seem to be going backwards in this respect. **But we have a choice.*= * *O***ur actions (or inaction) today will determine what we will reap tomorrow. ** Before we decide on whom to vote it might be appropriate to recall Blavatsky's words, in /A Key to Theosophy/, that the future of the TS "/wil= l depend almost entirely upon the degree of selflessness =85 and wisdom possessed by those members, on whom it will fall to carry on the work and t= o direct the Society after the death of the Founders/". Do we see selflessnes= s and wisdom in our leader today? I leave here my plea to our future President to endeavor to alter our Statutes so as to limit the tenure of future Presidents to two terms only. Fourteen years is more than enough for anyone to bring his contributions to our cause. Thus we would prevent the recurrence of such an embarrassing situation in the future. After all, the ST is not the Vatican where the Pop= e only relinquishes power when he dies. Last but not least, I take advantage to express my gratitude to our sister Radha for her tireless work behind the presidency for twenty one years. After such a long term of service it is natural that she now needs some tim= e of her own. Therefore, I invite all brothers and sisters of the theosophica= l movement to express fully our gratitude wishing her wisdom and strength to follow the tradition of her own culture, thus capping a life of dedication to work in the outer world with a retirement into the inner world in her last years of life as a sannyasin. If you agree with these considerations feel free to share them with others. God bless us all. Raul Branco MTS =96 Brazil [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Fri Apr 18 19:04:54 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 3008 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2008 02:04:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Apr 2008 02:04:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m27.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.8) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Apr 2008 02:04:51 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.cff.2d24220c (34934) for ; Fri, 18 Apr 2008 22:04:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from WEBMAIL-DG04 (webmail-dg04.sim.aol.com [205.188.171.68]) by cia-da04.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA047-887648095340e7; Fri, 18 Apr 2008 22:04:48 -0400 References: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 22:04:48 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.229.193.240 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36012-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.229.193.240 by WEBMAIL-DG04.sim.aol.com (205.188.171.68) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 18 Apr 2008 22:04:48 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA6FD8E16DEF4F-11E8-17B6@WEBMAIL-DG04.sim.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.8 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World TS International Election? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=7SBVYFy1sKy9BDPvpTRvufPQ44E7pTjTvJ13H6ZbAwfkKYXMxQ X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43595 This is getting to be fun!!? Maybe John and Radha can fight a duel--squirt guns filled with prune juice. Chuck the?Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: MKR To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; theos-L@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:17 am Subject: Theos-World TS International Election? In a footnote in the letter circulated to French members it says: NB: We have learned that as of today Germany, Finland, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Sweden, the USA, Colombia and Argentina have decided to write in a similar vein to their members. If anyone comes across letters from any of the above countries as well as any other countries, can you post it here so that we know how the campaign is fought. mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Fri Apr 18 19:35:59 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 73215 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2008 02:35:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Apr 2008 02:35:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52109.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.112) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Apr 2008 02:35:57 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 46487 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Apr 2008 02:35:57 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: .t8I0eIVM1khqs1zf2wOEooD.w_PCUQo1hPc07FCQhalXwfjHgxC64gjt8.kKF5MUBVB7mxoMGYWH3JDDXZ1xOcWOsS5l2ogg5uarzZlLfdTyM2Nl.13leOlu50- X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52109.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 18 Apr 2008 19:35:56 PDT Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 19:35:56 -0700 (PDT) To: Theosophy MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <957824.45242.qm@web52109.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.112 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Ratzinger X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=AtEvbM3a6B5Md3BNDVK6B1RsphGoKMdIFVjMoUkWqEYwurdWhQ X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43596 Staged Victims Meeting Goes Awry as Benedict-Ratzinger Is Outed: He Himself Is Accused of Sheltering 19 Criminal Bishops From: The Fathers On the afternoon of April 17, 2008, Benedict-Ratzinger was off to the Catholic [sic] University of America, where he was to deliver what turned out to be an absolutely incomprehensible speech on education, filled with Ratzingerian- Kungian academic-speak. As the camera panned the cardinals and bishops in attendance, several of them were caught dozing off. Most were simply bored. But before that, Benedict-Ratzinger was hustled off to a quickie "secret" meeting with some hand-picked victims of his bishops' and presbyters' sex crimes, the crimes that he himself has been aiding and abetting since April 30, 2001, when he was appointed by JPII as Sex Crimes Czar and given complete responsibility for a clean-up. He has done essentially nothing. The Great Sex & Embezzlement Scandal continues unabated, with a 54 per cent increase in such crimes in 2007 over 2006, according to the statistics of the U.S. Conference of Catholic [sic] Bishops. Here we go again. More "secrets." Isn't this what got JPII and Benedict-Ratzinger and their henchmen bishops into deep trouble in the first place? According to inside reports of the meeting, he issued yet another "apology." All talk; no action. No talk about stripping the criminal presbyters and bishops of any connection with Newchurch. No talk about turning the criminals over to the authorities for prosecution. No, Benedict-Ratzinger and his Newchurch of the New Order have learned nothing except how to do better propaganda. How to play the fox, how to spin crimes into virtues, how to do a snow-jobs on the ignorant Newchurchers and religion-dumb secular press. Benedict-Ratzinger had turned down Boston Newcardinal Sean O'Malley's invitation to come to Boston, where his predecessor, Bernard Law, set off the Great Sex & Embezzlement Scandal, and where hundreds of victims have gone public. Thus, Newpope had to do something, so as not to make it look as if he were snubbing the invitation. Thus, the quickie 25-minute meeting with hand-picked "victims." Meanwhile, for year the disgraced Law has been housed by Benedict-Ratzinger in Rome in a palace, with a generous stipend, and a cushy sinecure. But the meeting didn't go as planned. The victims had accused Benedict-Ratzinger himself of protecting some 19 of his U.S. Newchurch bishops "credibly accused" of the assault and rape of children. It was revealed that of the 19 bishops, none has lost his title, been publicly censured by Benedict-Ratzinger, or referred for criminal prosecutions. "The sexual corruption in the Catholic church starts at the very top," they said. Benedict-Ratzinger refused to reveal how many of his bishops themselves have been personally involved in sex crimes, but according to the Bishop Accountability list, almost one in ten U.s. bishops have themselves been publicly charged of assaulting and raping minors: Juan Arzube+, Newchurch archdiocese of Los Angeles, California Tod Brown, Newchurch bishop of Orange, California Paul Dudley+, Newchurch bishop of Sioux Falls, South Dakota Thomas Dupre, Newchurch bishop of Springfield, Massachusetts Joseph Ferrario, Newchurch bishop of Honolulu, Hawaii Louis Gelineau, Newchurch bishop of Providence, Rhode Island Timothy Harrington+, Newchurch bishop of Worcester, Massachusetts Joseph Hart, Newchurch bishop of Cheyenne, Wyoming Howard Hubbard, Newchurch bishop of Albany, New York Anthony O'Connell, Newchurch bishop of Palm Beach, Florida James Rausch, Newchurch bishop of Phoenix, Arizona George Rueger, Newchurch bishop of Worcester, Massachusetts Daniel Ryan, Newchurch bishop of Springfield, Illinois William Skylstad, Newchurch bishop of Spokane, Washington Lawrence Soens, Newchurch bishop of Sioux City, Iowa Joseph Symons, Newchurch bishop of Palm Beach, Florida Christopher Weldon+, Newchurch bishop of Springfield, Massachusetts Kendrick Williams, Newchurch bishop of Lexington, Kentucky Patrick Ziemann, Newchurch bishop of Santa Rosa, California Good Catholics, Benedict-Ratzinger has taken no action against these criminal bishops of his. Nor has he addressed the embezzlement part of the scandal, with Newchurch bishops and presbyters charged and convicted of stealing multi-millions of dollars from their churches and parishes. The Roman satirist Juvenal made the ultimate comment on this situation, as he did on the corruption of ancient Rome, when he wrote his famous words: Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From semockr@hotmail.com Fri Apr 18 21:41:26 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: semockr@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 28300 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2008 04:41:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Apr 2008 04:41:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n31c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.8) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Apr 2008 04:41:18 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n31.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Apr 2008 04:41:18 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Apr 2008 04:41:18 -0000 Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 04:41:17 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <385429.60093.qm@web52107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.8 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 75.62.18.24 From: "Richard Semock" Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=68064314; y=cfmtFCloIGcJoM4ZmUhgvDIsy0Tc7ix94-lXZqLfTBLwuQ X-Yahoo-Profile: semockr X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43597 I'll tell the mahatmas you said that.=20 Its really amazing tho how the TS grew into a worldwide organization=20 altho I doubt that HPB would be pleased with the politics that it takes=20 to run it. But then isnt that the evolutionary path that every org,=20 person, or country for that matter takes when the ideas that spawned=20 them descend into matter. In the case of the TS, Im convinced that=20 there was and still is a powerful spiritual force behind it but it=20 needs to break out of the forms that bind it from time to time. --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva wrote: > > That's how 'the old boys club' works. Play by my rules.=20=20 Brotherhood, imo, does not mean joining up to other associations but=20 respecting their choices. >=20=20=20=20 > Cass >=20 From Mvandertak@yahoo.com Fri Apr 18 22:41:22 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mvandertak@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 83230 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2008 05:41:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Apr 2008 05:41:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52601.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.204) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Apr 2008 05:41:19 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 24910 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Apr 2008 05:41:19 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: ke68z6wVM1lJFIb.rA7AfxhRJgZY9c78x4QjgT2divzNu.Uuboxohkva0.RGqJRwDFn4u.YB1xp3syO7Dw8o8B2fYTUOC0jKbSpb.pMljU6wdzIutonwDg-- X-Received: from [82.217.39.103] by web52601.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 18 Apr 2008 22:41:19 PDT Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 22:41:19 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <957824.45242.qm@web52109.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <265771.23321.qm@web52601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.204 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Martin Subject: Re: Theos-World Ratzinger X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=38276385; y=-aJPWxVC0YdEkNAfZvR-dJLXb6UHqlIMd5S6-BpzZsIQkjg-hw X-Yahoo-Profile: mvandertak X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43598 What's in a name? The Ratsinger of Bremen used to take the children away by playing his flute...!!! --- Cass Silva wrote: > Staged Victims Meeting Goes Awry as > Benedict-Ratzinger Is Outed: > He Himself Is Accused of Sheltering 19 Criminal > Bishops > From: The Fathers On the afternoon of April 17, > 2008, Benedict-Ratzinger was off to the Catholic > [sic] University of America, where he was to deliver > what turned out to be an absolutely incomprehensible > speech on education, filled with Ratzingerian- > Kungian academic-speak. As the camera panned the > cardinals and bishops in attendance, several of them > were caught dozing off. Most were simply bored. > But before that, Benedict-Ratzinger was hustled > off to a quickie "secret" meeting with some > hand-picked victims of his bishops' and presbyters' > sex crimes, the crimes that he himself has been > aiding and abetting since April 30, 2001, when he > was appointed by JPII as Sex Crimes Czar and given > complete responsibility for a clean-up. He has done > essentially nothing. The Great Sex & Embezzlement > Scandal continues unabated, with a 54 per cent > increase in such crimes in 2007 over 2006, according > to the statistics of the U.S. Conference of Catholic > [sic] Bishops. > Here we go again. More "secrets." Isn't this what > got JPII and Benedict-Ratzinger and their henchmen > bishops into deep trouble in the first place? > According to inside reports of the meeting, he > issued yet another "apology." All talk; no action. > No talk about stripping the criminal presbyters and > bishops of any connection with Newchurch. No talk > about turning the criminals over to the authorities > for prosecution. No, Benedict-Ratzinger and his > Newchurch of the New Order have learned nothing > except how to do better propaganda. How to play the > fox, how to spin crimes into virtues, how to do a > snow-jobs on the ignorant Newchurchers and > religion-dumb secular press. > Benedict-Ratzinger had turned down Boston > Newcardinal Sean O'Malley's invitation to come to > Boston, where his predecessor, Bernard Law, set off > the Great Sex & Embezzlement Scandal, and where > hundreds of victims have gone public. Thus, Newpope > had to do something, so as not to make it look as if > he were snubbing the invitation. Thus, the quickie > 25-minute meeting with hand-picked "victims." > Meanwhile, for year the disgraced Law has been > housed by Benedict-Ratzinger in Rome in a palace, > with a generous stipend, and a cushy sinecure. > But the meeting didn't go as planned. The victims > had accused Benedict-Ratzinger himself of protecting > some 19 of his U.S. Newchurch bishops "credibly > accused" of the assault and rape of children. It was > revealed that of the 19 bishops, none has lost his > title, been publicly censured by Benedict-Ratzinger, > or referred for criminal prosecutions. "The sexual > corruption in the Catholic church starts at the very > top," they said. Benedict-Ratzinger refused to > reveal how many of his bishops themselves have been > personally involved in sex crimes, but according to > the Bishop Accountability list, almost one in ten > U.s. bishops have themselves been publicly charged > of assaulting and raping minors: > > Juan Arzube+, Newchurch archdiocese of Los > Angeles, California > Tod Brown, Newchurch bishop of Orange, California > > Paul Dudley+, Newchurch bishop of Sioux Falls, > South Dakota > Thomas Dupre, Newchurch bishop of Springfield, > Massachusetts > Joseph Ferrario, Newchurch bishop of Honolulu, > Hawaii > Louis Gelineau, Newchurch bishop of Providence, > Rhode Island > Timothy Harrington+, Newchurch bishop of > Worcester, Massachusetts > Joseph Hart, Newchurch bishop of Cheyenne, > Wyoming > Howard Hubbard, Newchurch bishop of Albany, New > York > Anthony O'Connell, Newchurch bishop of Palm > Beach, Florida > James Rausch, Newchurch bishop of Phoenix, > Arizona > George Rueger, Newchurch bishop of Worcester, > Massachusetts > Daniel Ryan, Newchurch bishop of Springfield, > Illinois > William Skylstad, Newchurch bishop of Spokane, > Washington > Lawrence Soens, Newchurch bishop of Sioux City, > Iowa > Joseph Symons, Newchurch bishop of Palm Beach, > Florida > Christopher Weldon+, Newchurch bishop of > Springfield, Massachusetts > Kendrick Williams, Newchurch bishop of Lexington, > Kentucky > Patrick Ziemann, Newchurch bishop of Santa Rosa, > California > Good Catholics, Benedict-Ratzinger has taken no > action against these criminal bishops of his. Nor > has he addressed the embezzlement part of the > scandal, with Newchurch bishops and presbyters > charged and convicted of stealing multi-millions of > dollars from their churches and parishes. The Roman > satirist Juvenal made the ultimate comment on this > situation, as he did on the corruption of ancient > Rome, when he wrote his famous words: Quis custodiet > ipsos custodes? > > --------------------------------- > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with > Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From Mvandertak@yahoo.com Fri Apr 18 22:46:32 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mvandertak@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 5069 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2008 05:46:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Apr 2008 05:46:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52610.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.213) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Apr 2008 05:46:31 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 8961 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Apr 2008 05:46:30 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 9FqpfloVM1nrBGMRImFdnxJsoTMF6cM4NQMmy38E_bhtX0D_h2rT2rNxkodoONYg553EX4TijmvdmYukAUXs1ijl0nOb35Ooalf57H_TycImba1Zp86FB4GGFpLIssxb.HVJkhNZiiRKrq0HV7CKejPCNbu8LeqVrg-- X-Received: from [82.217.39.103] by web52610.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 18 Apr 2008 22:46:30 PDT Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 22:46:30 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8CA6FD8E16DEF4F-11E8-17B6@WEBMAIL-DG04.sim.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <723667.7629.qm@web52610.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.213 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Martin Subject: Re: Theos-World TS International Election? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=38276385; y=ZZEbLQ4hPEKgNG7RmFoIRZDrVmfBPwoP12bYX40euoAcAJOh0w X-Yahoo-Profile: mvandertak X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43599 Prunes and old age, that combination isn't very tasty...and there is a choice: umeboshi (salted prunes) or sweet blue ones. In both cases I suggest whole dark wheat bread :-) Tar and feathers when none will play the game. --- Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > This is getting to be fun!!? Maybe John and Radha > can fight a duel--squirt guns filled with prune > juice. > > Chuck the?Heretic > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > > -----Original Message----- > From: MKR > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; > theos-L@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:17 am > Subject: Theos-World TS International Election? > > > > > > > In a footnote in the letter circulated to French > members it says: > > NB: We have learned that as of today Germany, > Finland, Spain, Italy, > Portugal, Sweden, the USA, Colombia and Argentina > have decided to > write in a similar vein to their members. > > If anyone comes across letters from any of the above > countries as well as > any other countries, can you post it here so that we > know how the campaign > is fought. > > mkr > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From silva_cass@yahoo.com Sat Apr 19 00:09:19 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 13640 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2008 07:09:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Apr 2008 07:09:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52111.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.114) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Apr 2008 07:09:17 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 68457 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Apr 2008 07:09:17 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: DmCDpEEVM1n_8mvgehfoZkY3MWR50gPD10aKJt3iYxyQ6TLnmyUXGZ5sUomtDtu78wsunxtZZPOar9Ze1VcNc.GxctZgIq4C1wok4NUkUjrC3ixM2M9sQ8zlJnE- X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52111.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 19 Apr 2008 00:09:17 PDT Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 00:09:17 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <265771.23321.qm@web52601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <291001.68210.qm@web52111.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.114 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Ratzinger X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=P16Gc1iK3neTEjaecwIiaAQURHMU3MrQZ4Qb18MU3IDyZ3kpqg X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43600 Well there you go, Martin. We don't get our names for nothing Cass Martin wrote: What's in a name? The Ratsinger of Bremen used to take the children away by playing his flute...!!! --- Cass Silva wrote: > Staged Victims Meeting Goes Awry as > Benedict-Ratzinger Is Outed: > He Himself Is Accused of Sheltering 19 Criminal > Bishops > From: The Fathers On the afternoon of April 17, > 2008, Benedict-Ratzinger was off to the Catholic > [sic] University of America, where he was to deliver > what turned out to be an absolutely incomprehensible > speech on education, filled with Ratzingerian- > Kungian academic-speak. As the camera panned the > cardinals and bishops in attendance, several of them > were caught dozing off. Most were simply bored. > But before that, Benedict-Ratzinger was hustled > off to a quickie "secret" meeting with some > hand-picked victims of his bishops' and presbyters' > sex crimes, the crimes that he himself has been > aiding and abetting since April 30, 2001, when he > was appointed by JPII as Sex Crimes Czar and given > complete responsibility for a clean-up. He has done > essentially nothing. The Great Sex & Embezzlement > Scandal continues unabated, with a 54 per cent > increase in such crimes in 2007 over 2006, according > to the statistics of the U.S. Conference of Catholic > [sic] Bishops. > Here we go again. More "secrets." Isn't this what > got JPII and Benedict-Ratzinger and their henchmen > bishops into deep trouble in the first place? > According to inside reports of the meeting, he > issued yet another "apology." All talk; no action. > No talk about stripping the criminal presbyters and > bishops of any connection with Newchurch. No talk > about turning the criminals over to the authorities > for prosecution. No, Benedict-Ratzinger and his > Newchurch of the New Order have learned nothing > except how to do better propaganda. How to play the > fox, how to spin crimes into virtues, how to do a > snow-jobs on the ignorant Newchurchers and > religion-dumb secular press. > Benedict-Ratzinger had turned down Boston > Newcardinal Sean O'Malley's invitation to come to > Boston, where his predecessor, Bernard Law, set off > the Great Sex & Embezzlement Scandal, and where > hundreds of victims have gone public. Thus, Newpope > had to do something, so as not to make it look as if > he were snubbing the invitation. Thus, the quickie > 25-minute meeting with hand-picked "victims." > Meanwhile, for year the disgraced Law has been > housed by Benedict-Ratzinger in Rome in a palace, > with a generous stipend, and a cushy sinecure. > But the meeting didn't go as planned. The victims > had accused Benedict-Ratzinger himself of protecting > some 19 of his U.S. Newchurch bishops "credibly > accused" of the assault and rape of children. It was > revealed that of the 19 bishops, none has lost his > title, been publicly censured by Benedict-Ratzinger, > or referred for criminal prosecutions. "The sexual > corruption in the Catholic church starts at the very > top," they said. Benedict-Ratzinger refused to > reveal how many of his bishops themselves have been > personally involved in sex crimes, but according to > the Bishop Accountability list, almost one in ten > U.s. bishops have themselves been publicly charged > of assaulting and raping minors: > > Juan Arzube+, Newchurch archdiocese of Los > Angeles, California > Tod Brown, Newchurch bishop of Orange, California > > Paul Dudley+, Newchurch bishop of Sioux Falls, > South Dakota > Thomas Dupre, Newchurch bishop of Springfield, > Massachusetts > Joseph Ferrario, Newchurch bishop of Honolulu, > Hawaii > Louis Gelineau, Newchurch bishop of Providence, > Rhode Island > Timothy Harrington+, Newchurch bishop of > Worcester, Massachusetts > Joseph Hart, Newchurch bishop of Cheyenne, > Wyoming > Howard Hubbard, Newchurch bishop of Albany, New > York > Anthony O'Connell, Newchurch bishop of Palm > Beach, Florida > James Rausch, Newchurch bishop of Phoenix, > Arizona > George Rueger, Newchurch bishop of Worcester, > Massachusetts > Daniel Ryan, Newchurch bishop of Springfield, > Illinois > William Skylstad, Newchurch bishop of Spokane, > Washington > Lawrence Soens, Newchurch bishop of Sioux City, > Iowa > Joseph Symons, Newchurch bishop of Palm Beach, > Florida > Christopher Weldon+, Newchurch bishop of > Springfield, Massachusetts > Kendrick Williams, Newchurch bishop of Lexington, > Kentucky > Patrick Ziemann, Newchurch bishop of Santa Rosa, > California > Good Catholics, Benedict-Ratzinger has taken no > action against these criminal bishops of his. Nor > has he addressed the embezzlement part of the > scandal, with Newchurch bishops and presbyters > charged and convicted of stealing multi-millions of > dollars from their churches and parishes. The Roman > satirist Juvenal made the ultimate comment on this > situation, as he did on the corruption of ancient > Rome, when he wrote his famous words: Quis custodiet > ipsos custodes? > > --------------------------------- > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with > Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > __________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Sat Apr 19 00:29:23 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 99528 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2008 07:29:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Apr 2008 07:29:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.104) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Apr 2008 07:29:21 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 19894 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Apr 2008 07:29:20 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: c6tsU_0VM1lW_HtLNzmaUGHH.E8rvtkfhVv2o96qYjAwxmapQ_rzRbGFGJ0AFV.u_w-- X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 19 Apr 2008 00:29:20 PDT Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 00:29:20 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <608174.19444.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.104 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=dzDFBlddT17JrOlOoQfGvbiy7306VonY49PP1Y-XaxPPUTf-SQ X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43601 The TS was supposed to be revolutionary in its ideas and modus operandi. I think HPB would be repeating dufus,dufus,dufus. Le them play their little egotistical games, let the power struggle continue, it will change nothing in the long run for them or for the TS. The TS has served its function as a medium for the teachings of the Masters through HPB, they are simply adding more materialistic coals to the burning. Cass Richard Semock wrote: I'll tell the mahatmas you said that. Its really amazing tho how the TS grew into a worldwide organization altho I doubt that HPB would be pleased with the politics that it takes to run it. But then isnt that the evolutionary path that every org, person, or country for that matter takes when the ideas that spawned them descend into matter. In the case of the TS, Im convinced that there was and still is a powerful spiritual force behind it but it needs to break out of the forms that bind it from time to time. --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva wrote: > > That's how 'the old boys club' works. Play by my rules. Brotherhood, imo, does not mean joining up to other associations but respecting their choices. > > Cass > --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Mvandertak@yahoo.com Sat Apr 19 03:48:36 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mvandertak@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 13425 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2008 10:48:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Apr 2008 10:48:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52607.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.210) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Apr 2008 10:48:34 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 40558 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Apr 2008 10:48:33 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Y26bLJEVM1kI881ZMFEGcDmXpZinaO8z5_flfFkJ8yCSGmx37haOuy7FRevVHRrJK_UrpFwLRvjEa482AG0VVlT3YbESH5Zxs1Ve5Qf7WXnhIewWmcpQiA-- X-Received: from [82.217.39.103] by web52607.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 19 Apr 2008 03:48:33 PDT Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 03:48:33 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <291001.68210.qm@web52111.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <492902.39466.qm@web52607.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.210 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Martin Subject: Re: Theos-World Ratzinger X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=38276385; y=0xf4uWoyQgG876LrIr2r3gPaV7uKCjNVVsHwOJea005NOPJaCw X-Yahoo-Profile: mvandertak X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43602 Well it was actually Hamel(which is close to Bremen), it an interesting fairytale. The Ratcatcher can be read here: http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=LanRedF.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=20&division=div1 --- Cass Silva wrote: > Well there you go, Martin. We don't get our names > for nothing > Cass > > Martin wrote: > What's in a name? > The Ratsinger of Bremen used to take the children > away > by playing his flute...!!! > > --- Cass Silva wrote: > > > Staged Victims Meeting Goes Awry as > > Benedict-Ratzinger Is Outed: > > He Himself Is Accused of Sheltering 19 Criminal > > Bishops > > From: The Fathers On the afternoon of April 17, > > 2008, Benedict-Ratzinger was off to the Catholic > > [sic] University of America, where he was to > deliver > > what turned out to be an absolutely > incomprehensible > > speech on education, filled with Ratzingerian- > > Kungian academic-speak. As the camera panned the > > cardinals and bishops in attendance, several of > them > > were caught dozing off. Most were simply bored. > > But before that, Benedict-Ratzinger was hustled > > off to a quickie "secret" meeting with some > > hand-picked victims of his bishops' and > presbyters' > > sex crimes, the crimes that he himself has been > > aiding and abetting since April 30, 2001, when he > > was appointed by JPII as Sex Crimes Czar and given > > complete responsibility for a clean-up. He has > done > > essentially nothing. The Great Sex & Embezzlement > > Scandal continues unabated, with a 54 per cent > > increase in such crimes in 2007 over 2006, > according > > to the statistics of the U.S. Conference of > Catholic > > [sic] Bishops. > > Here we go again. More "secrets." Isn't this what > > got JPII and Benedict-Ratzinger and their henchmen > > bishops into deep trouble in the first place? > > According to inside reports of the meeting, he > > issued yet another "apology." All talk; no action. > > No talk about stripping the criminal presbyters > and > > bishops of any connection with Newchurch. No talk > > about turning the criminals over to the > authorities > > for prosecution. No, Benedict-Ratzinger and his > > Newchurch of the New Order have learned nothing > > except how to do better propaganda. How to play > the > > fox, how to spin crimes into virtues, how to do a > > snow-jobs on the ignorant Newchurchers and > > religion-dumb secular press. > > Benedict-Ratzinger had turned down Boston > > Newcardinal Sean O'Malley's invitation to come to > > Boston, where his predecessor, Bernard Law, set > off > > the Great Sex & Embezzlement Scandal, and where > > hundreds of victims have gone public. Thus, > Newpope > > had to do something, so as not to make it look as > if > > he were snubbing the invitation. Thus, the quickie > > 25-minute meeting with hand-picked "victims." > > Meanwhile, for year the disgraced Law has been > > housed by Benedict-Ratzinger in Rome in a palace, > > with a generous stipend, and a cushy sinecure. > > But the meeting didn't go as planned. The victims > > had accused Benedict-Ratzinger himself of > protecting > > some 19 of his U.S. Newchurch bishops "credibly > > accused" of the assault and rape of children. It > was > > revealed that of the 19 bishops, none has lost his > > title, been publicly censured by > Benedict-Ratzinger, > > or referred for criminal prosecutions. "The sexual > > corruption in the Catholic church starts at the > very > > top," they said. Benedict-Ratzinger refused to > > reveal how many of his bishops themselves have > been > > personally involved in sex crimes, but according > to > > the Bishop Accountability list, almost one in ten > > U.s. bishops have themselves been publicly charged > > of assaulting and raping minors: > > > > Juan Arzube+, Newchurch archdiocese of Los > > Angeles, California > > Tod Brown, Newchurch bishop of Orange, California > > > > Paul Dudley+, Newchurch bishop of Sioux Falls, > > South Dakota > > Thomas Dupre, Newchurch bishop of Springfield, > > Massachusetts > > Joseph Ferrario, Newchurch bishop of Honolulu, > > Hawaii > > Louis Gelineau, Newchurch bishop of Providence, > > Rhode Island > > Timothy Harrington+, Newchurch bishop of > > Worcester, Massachusetts > > Joseph Hart, Newchurch bishop of Cheyenne, > > Wyoming > > Howard Hubbard, Newchurch bishop of Albany, New > > York > > Anthony O'Connell, Newchurch bishop of Palm > > Beach, Florida > > James Rausch, Newchurch bishop of Phoenix, > > Arizona > > George Rueger, Newchurch bishop of Worcester, > > Massachusetts > > Daniel Ryan, Newchurch bishop of Springfield, > > Illinois > > William Skylstad, Newchurch bishop of Spokane, > > Washington > > Lawrence Soens, Newchurch bishop of Sioux City, > > Iowa > > Joseph Symons, Newchurch bishop of Palm Beach, > > Florida > > Christopher Weldon+, Newchurch bishop of > > Springfield, Massachusetts > > Kendrick Williams, Newchurch bishop of Lexington, > > Kentucky > > Patrick Ziemann, Newchurch bishop of Santa Rosa, > > California > > Good Catholics, Benedict-Ratzinger has taken no > > action against these criminal bishops of his. Nor > > has he addressed the embezzlement part of the > > scandal, with Newchurch bishops and presbyters > > charged and convicted of stealing multi-millions > of > > dollars from their churches and parishes. The > Roman > > satirist Juvenal made the ultimate comment on this > > situation, as he did on the corruption of ancient > > Rome, when he wrote his famous words: Quis > custodiet > > ipsos custodes? > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all > with > > Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with > Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From mkr777@gmail.com Sat Apr 19 05:17:33 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 45671 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2008 12:17:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Apr 2008 12:17:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.245) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Apr 2008 12:17:30 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c35so241434anc.19 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 2008 05:17:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.240.17 with SMTP id n17mr7508703anh.49.1208607450418; Sat, 19 Apr 2008 05:17:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Sat, 19 Apr 2008 05:17:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 07:17:30 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <608174.19444.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <608174.19444.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.245 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=Oe7HMoqpHH8pU7ZO_D8xuc6FEH9wq_mONnkBvk1K0qx2uSzUzDE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43603 Several years ago, I posted a msg in the same vein when no young leadership was on the horizon anywhere. Upcoming organizations and movements always are led by young or middle aged leaders and never by octogenarians. Octogenrian ideas and visions have never been revolutionary, even though they may be imagining or day dreaming. More likely such octogernian ideas will run the orgn into a deep hole. Even looking back, the orgn has been on maintenance mode with decreasing (in %) membership and old (wise) people leading it. mkr On 4/19/08, Cass Silva wrote: > > The TS was supposed to be revolutionary in its ideas and modus operandi. > I think HPB would be repeating dufus,dufus,dufus. Le them play their little > egotistical games, let the power struggle continue, it will change nothing > in the long run for them or for the TS. The TS has served its function as a > medium for the teachings of the Masters through HPB, they are simply adding > more materialistic coals to the burning. > > > Cass > > Richard Semock > wrote: > I'll tell the mahatmas you said that. > > Its really amazing tho how the TS grew into a worldwide organization > altho I doubt that HPB would be pleased with the politics that it takes > to run it. But then isnt that the evolutionary path that every org, > person, or country for that matter takes when the ideas that spawned > them descend into matter. In the case of the TS, Im convinced that > there was and still is a powerful spiritual force behind it but it > needs to break out of the forms that bind it from time to time. > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com , Cass > Silva wrote: > > > > That's how 'the old boys club' works. Play by my rules. > Brotherhood, imo, does not mean joining up to other associations but > respecting their choices. > > > > Cass > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Sat Apr 19 08:42:54 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 47464 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2008 15:42:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Apr 2008 15:42:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m12.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.100) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Apr 2008 15:42:51 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c50.29b546a7 (34929) for ; Sat, 19 Apr 2008 11:42:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from webmail-db15 (webmail-db15.webmail.aol.com [205.188.105.80]) by cia-da04.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA042-8871480a12e3396; Sat, 19 Apr 2008 11:42:27 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 11:42:27 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.229.193.240 In-Reply-To: <608174.19444.qm@web52101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36012-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.229.193.240 by webmail-db15.sysops.aol.com (205.188.105.80) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sat, 19 Apr 2008 11:42:27 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA704B1B1684E5-990-2869@webmail-db15.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.143.100 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=RRKGWkJpEtvJMwarZGUf8Xt8p4ov4MaCAU--HXTolPNxRcUVcA X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43604 HPB would have sat on them and squished them long ago with a might cry of "Flapdoodle!" Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 2:29 am Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election The TS was supposed to be revolutionary in its ideas and modus operandi. I think HPB would be repeating dufus,dufus,dufus. Le them play their little egotistical games, let the power struggle continue, it will change nothing in the long run for them or for the TS. The TS has served its function as a medium for the teachings of the Masters through HPB, they are simply adding more materialistic coals to the burning. Cass Richard Semock wrote: I'll tell the mahatmas you said that. Its really amazing tho how the TS grew into a worldwide organization altho I doubt that HPB would be pleased with the politics that it takes to run it. But then isnt that the evolutionary path that every org, person, or country for that matter takes when the ideas that spawned them descend into matter. In the case of the TS, Im convinced that there was and still is a powerful spiritual force behind it but it needs to break out of the forms that bind it from time to time. --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva wrote: > > That's how 'the old boys club' works. Play by my rules. Brotherhood, imo, does not mean joining up to other associations but respecting their choices. > > Cass > --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From kpauljohnson@yahoo.com Sat Apr 19 14:02:00 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: kpauljohnson@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 50716 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2008 21:01:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Apr 2008 21:01:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.156) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Apr 2008 21:01:57 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Apr 2008 21:01:57 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Apr 2008 21:01:57 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Apr 2008 21:01:57 -0000 Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 21:01:55 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.169.156 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 24.167.163.100 From: "kpauljohnson" Subject: Professional Theosophists X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=85941729; y=2n8i3dhjciXS3WS5vJgn6Cvi0yBtUgTcwUrBvxcECt6mF3qm4MkJ X-Yahoo-Profile: kpauljohnson X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43605 This is in response to themes mentioned by several of you, an insight=20 that your comments inspired. It seems to me that what Radha and John=20 have in common, and what is disastrous to the health of the=20 organization, isn't just that they are octogenarians but professional=20 Theosophists. People who have been involved in the TS for well over=20 half a century and been in the inner circle of leadership almost that=20 long. I had a much more positive personal relationship with Grace=20 Knoche than either John (negative) or Radha (nonexistent) but she=20 exemplified the same pattern. Born into Theosophy, no meaningful=20 professional engagement outside the Theosophical world, in the inner=20 circle her entire life.=20=20 My experience with ARE was quite unlike that with the TS in that no=20 one ever said or wrote a critical word about my book on Cayce. It=20 just didn't inspire controversy despite being in some ways the most=20 critical book ever written about him. But it was very much like the=20 TS experience in that there was a cadre of professional Cayceites who=20 ran everything and always would and outsiders would forever be so.=20=20 One had normal conversations with all the other members, but there=20 was always something strained for me with the professional AREers or=20 the professional Theosophists. I conclude that in both these cases and most others, the self-styled=20 elites are in fact parasites who could not make it in the real world=20 yet presume to preach to those who can and do. (Algeo's success in=20 linguistics acknowledged as a sign that he's more than *just* a=20 professional Theosophist.) Term limits are the only way to prevent=20 takeovers by parasitical elites. Every library board, every=20 nonprofit board I've ever belonged to had term limits, and none of=20 them ever had the kind of problems I've seen with so- called "spiritual" organizations.=20 From Mvandertak@yahoo.com Sat Apr 19 16:25:49 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mvandertak@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 32255 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2008 23:25:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Apr 2008 23:25:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52604.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.207) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Apr 2008 23:25:46 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 61617 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Apr 2008 23:25:45 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: c1Nn.ZMVM1kJqCGobbeVUJ2J5LS65Bjjf6C.OTOBQamqJRzUaHDNV_8OQbORmSlxgCm4JbfqPHleZSfvTKkelzHeWX2dtduFimE8G3VEiz4EH4bHEqCAI6Wz5MSSxYKlyo.9z5qcxM67VsbN4noWskWChiVQNtH1DA-- X-Received: from [82.217.39.103] by web52604.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 19 Apr 2008 16:25:45 PDT Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 16:25:45 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8CA704B1B1684E5-990-2869@webmail-db15.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <879446.59847.qm@web52604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.207 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Martin Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=38276385; y=WF5C4zj-j-YRg8UVzgobzjZzJ0-WM26FV7-Ql63n4DLwDxNsEA X-Yahoo-Profile: mvandertak X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43606 ...while having scrambled eggs with lots of butter :-) --- Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > > HPB would have sat on them and squished them long > ago with a might cry of "Flapdoodle!" > > > > Chuck the Heretic > > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cass Silva > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 2:29 am > Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election > > > > > > > The TS was supposed to be revolutionary in its ideas > and modus operandi. I think HPB would be repeating > dufus,dufus,dufus. Le them play their little > egotistical games, let the power struggle continue, > it will change nothing in the long run for them or > for the TS. The TS has served its function as a > medium for the teachings of the Masters through HPB, > they are simply adding more materialistic coals to > the burning. > > > Cass > > Richard Semock wrote: > I'll tell the mahatmas you said that. > > Its really amazing tho how the TS grew into a > worldwide organization > altho I doubt that HPB would be pleased with the > politics that it takes > to run it. But then isnt that the evolutionary path > that every org, > person, or country for that matter takes when the > ideas that spawned > them descend into matter. In the case of the TS, Im > convinced that > there was and still is a powerful spiritual force > behind it but it > needs to break out of the forms that bind it from > time to time. > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva > wrote: > > > > That's how 'the old boys club' works. Play by my > rules. > Brotherhood, imo, does not mean joining up to other > associations but > respecting their choices. > > > > Cass > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with > Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From Mvandertak@yahoo.com Sat Apr 19 16:33:47 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mvandertak@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 863 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2008 23:33:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Apr 2008 23:33:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52611.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.214) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Apr 2008 23:33:45 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 57278 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Apr 2008 23:33:42 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: EOmqLkMVM1mgAR84G0qMpLHoimUAxtdTUHhw8C9Sliy2PbdfPWXXqgegF8ZJM8HNvQ-- X-Received: from [82.217.39.103] by web52611.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 19 Apr 2008 16:33:42 PDT Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 16:33:42 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <161273.53821.qm@web52611.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.214 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Martin Subject: Re: Theos-World Professional Theosophists X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=38276385; y=TISFACrfF9X_NM-cIz_l4EGgF2HMMUMiRJTl13p3cxxdgwz78A X-Yahoo-Profile: mvandertak X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43607 Hmm, yes I had a personal relationship with Grace as well, however she never understood me personally... But this was not a matter of hers to work out but more one of mine: I still don't understand myself. Whenever I will, it will be time to go from this plane of existence and sharing what Narada said to Vishnu when he visted earth once...'it is a good life one can have on earth'. I can add: and it can be a miserable life as well... There must be lots of suffering There must be lots of battling Before it will be peace within --- kpauljohnson wrote: > This is in response to themes mentioned by several > of you, an insight > that your comments inspired. It seems to me that > what Radha and John > have in common, and what is disastrous to the health > of the > organization, isn't just that they are octogenarians > but professional > Theosophists. People who have been involved in the > TS for well over > half a century and been in the inner circle of > leadership almost that > long. I had a much more positive personal > relationship with Grace > Knoche than either John (negative) or Radha > (nonexistent) but she > exemplified the same pattern. Born into Theosophy, > no meaningful > professional engagement outside the Theosophical > world, in the inner > circle her entire life. > > My experience with ARE was quite unlike that with > the TS in that no > one ever said or wrote a critical word about my book > on Cayce. It > just didn't inspire controversy despite being in > some ways the most > critical book ever written about him. But it was > very much like the > TS experience in that there was a cadre of > professional Cayceites who > ran everything and always would and outsiders would > forever be so. > One had normal conversations with all the other > members, but there > was always something strained for me with the > professional AREers or > the professional Theosophists. > > I conclude that in both these cases and most others, > the self-styled > elites are in fact parasites who could not make it > in the real world > yet presume to preach to those who can and do. > (Algeo's success in > linguistics acknowledged as a sign that he's more > than *just* a > professional Theosophist.) Term limits are the only > way to prevent > takeovers by parasitical elites. Every library > board, every > nonprofit board I've ever belonged to had term > limits, and none of > them ever had the kind of problems I've seen with > so- > called "spiritual" organizations. > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From leonmaurer@aol.com Sat Apr 19 17:22:15 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 17023 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2008 00:22:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2008 00:22:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d21.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.207) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Apr 2008 00:22:12 -0000 X-Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d55.2af0c03e (37175); Sat, 19 Apr 2008 20:22:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from [66.229.64.15] (c-66-229-64-15.hsd1.fl.comcast.net [66.229.64.15]) by cia-ma05.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMA052-9137480a8cab3d8; Sat, 19 Apr 2008 20:22:04 -0400 In-Reply-To: <90C94C01-AC4E-426B-A807-B6625A45548C@aol.com> References: <415588.63304.qm@web34807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <90C94C01-AC4E-426B-A807-B6625A45548C@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753) Message-Id: Cc: michael haaheim Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 20:22:54 -0400 To: MindBrain X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753) X-AOL-IP: 66.229.64.15 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.144.207 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: Leon Maurer Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_[Mind_and_Brain]_Rencontr=E9s_de_Moriand?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972; y=ChyibIgfpc6-URlxq3C3_-rzm5LbbuH_lRoqmAyUsHAxjOSzUHY X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43608 On Apr 14, 2008, at 4/14/084:45 AM, michael haaheim wrote: >The problem doesn't concern the accuracy or inaccuracy of your=20=20 proposal. >The problem is with getting humans to accept the explanation as a=20=20 final >explanation. Again, there will always be someone asking, "but where=20=20 does >THAT come from?" The gods used to be a "final" expalanation, just as >you pose your "always existing" component as another. I am not saying >it is necessarily wrong. I am saying that it will prove to be=20=20 unsatisfactory, >and that once the universe is reduced to your one always existing >component, SOMEONE will be searching for the origin of that >component. It is philosophy. It is also logic. >By the way, I am trying to move this off the main site. As has been=20=20 noted, >it is not exactly suitable discussion for mind and brain... unless=20=20 if you want >to ask WHY there will always be a human being asking, "but where=20=20 did THAT >come from?" LM: It really doesn't matter... Since my ABC fractal involved field=20=20 theory of cosmogenesis -- which, incidentally, explains the source of=20=20 *subjective* perceptional/intentional consciousness and its=20=20 *objective* efferent/afferent informational connections with mind,=20=20 memory, brain, body, senses, etc., and DOES belong in this forum=20=20 (among others) -- is based on the proposition that the ultimate=20=20 beginning and source of everything is a *whatever* substance=20=20 (Einstein called the "Aether" or "total space") that is infinitely=20=20 divisible, infinitely expandable, and completely empty of everything,=20=20 except infinite potential G-force in the necessary form of abstract=20=20 motion -- which could only be considered logically, as infinite=20=20 nonlinear spin momentum of that zero-point "singularity"... That is=20=20 located everywhere in the overall phenomenal spacetime continuum=20=20 since the beginning of its continuing involution, inflation, and=20=20 evolution of the physical cosmos and its ultimate life forms -- where=20=20 latent consciousness can be phenomenally expressed. Since we can't go in (or out) further than zero, or infinity, with=20=20 respect to THIS noumenal and phenomenal universe -- there can be no=20=20 further question of what underlies THAT primal source of=20=20 everything... Also, once we prove the ABC fractal field model=20=20 correct, there can be no more ontological questions -- other than=20=20 practical ones to iron out the epistemological and empirical details. With that in mind, I'm willing to keep on testing ABC theory's=20=20 topological geometric and electrodynamic logic, by expounding (in=20=20 whatever scientific forums that are appropriate) what I think is the=20=20 real nature of fundamental reality (using GRT as a basis) -- while=20=20 waiting for some open minded practical cosmological physicist or=20=20 quantum relativist to take on the job of proving it by appropriate=20=20 mathematics coupled with experiment or observation... So that,=20=20 hopefully, the "scientific community" and the rest of the world, will=20=20 except it, and begin governing their individual and collective lives=20=20 in accord with the universal laws of nature. IMHO, until that=20=20 happens, all that conventional reductive material science can do in=20=20 solving the "hard problems" of consciousness, mind and brain, besides=20=20 extending our lives (so we can suffer aging and the drug side=20=20 effects, a bit longer ;-) -- is help us to cumulatively, if not=20=20 ultimately catastrophically, destroy ourselves, along with the world=20=20 we live in. Best wishes, Leon Maurer http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/23/13 http://www.tellworld.com/Astro.Biological.Coenergetics/ ----- Original Message ---- From: Leon Maurer To: MindBrain@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 4:00:28 AM Subject: Re: [Mind and Brain] Rencontr=E9s de Moriand Again, poor logic... The ONE THING that "always existed" (although we=20=20 could question its origin -- since it is assumed to be real, yet non-=20 metric and immeasurable, while energetically directly supportive of=20=20 all metric reality) cannot be compared with gods -- which could have=20=20 no such "real" existence or phenomenal effectiveness (other than=20=20 supernatural miraculous conception;- ). On Apr 11, 2008, at 4/11/0812:25 PM, michael haaheim wrote: Not really. I am stating that there are a number of issues in which there was no=20=20 evidence to suggest that they had not always existed... so why did=20=20 early humans decide to create explanations of their origins? I did=20=20 misuse the word at one point: I should have specified "any natural=20=20 existing phenomena". I am not arguing the validity of the presumption that a single thing=20=20 might always have been existing, even as everything else evolves. I=20=20 am arguing that, sooner or later, mankind is going to question even=20=20 the origin of THAT one thing that has always existed... in the same=20=20 way that we come to question the existence of gods. ----- Original Message ---- From: "yanniru@aim. com" To: MindBrain@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 12:23:47 PM Subject: Re: [Mind and Brain] Rencontr=E9s de Moriand OK. The fundamental error in the logic of MH is that he is substituting 'everything has always existed' for 'something has always existed' Saying something has always existed does not negate the evolution of anything including universes Saying everything always existed negates all substantial change -----Original Message----- From: michael haaheim To: MindBrain@yahoogrou ps.com Sent: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 3:49 am Subject: Re: [Mind and Brain] Rencontr=E9s de Moriand For well over ten thousand years, human beings have always sought=20=20 explanations for the origins of various phenomena: the origin of=20=20 mankind, the origin of natural cyclic events (the lunar phases, the=20=20 seasons, etc), the origin of the Earth. WHY? It would have been very=20=20 easy for them to just say, "well, they have ALWAYS existed", thus, no=20=20 need for explanations. In early history and prehistory, there existed=20=20 no contradictory evidence that everything existing had always=20=20 existed... no evidence that there was a time without humankind, for=20=20 example... certainly no evidence that the Earth had not always existed. So. Logic. Why search for a creation myth when there is nothing to=20=20 suggest that everything has not always been? Why do you need the=20=20 presence of gods to explain phenomena that have existed throughout=20=20 the entirety of known history? Logic dictates that you must answer this question. The only answer=20=20 that I have found is that mankind does not accept the premise that=20=20 something has always existed (the gods themselves being the one fault=20=20 in their search). If you have another solution to the question, let=20=20 me know. It is not illogic... but I will admit to the possibility of=20=20 error in my solution. ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail. yahoo.com =3D [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Sat Apr 19 17:45:27 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 41955 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2008 00:45:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2008 00:45:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52105.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.108) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Apr 2008 00:45:23 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 88012 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Apr 2008 00:45:23 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: R.m4hxMVM1lWYLt3faqF7IjiRqR31cwosZyJLOXHGr97MgH2ZlOBGjZENw7R6zn4zrcCrZ7GAdUR8U6FLBTzwyISrEO.AeoOPUFDNTpbQpZseQ1QXjkih4Q6D01jPUn_jK3gicGNm2jbcyHrpe_F7ExFEMyjuXHzDgq.xQo- X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52105.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 19 Apr 2008 17:45:23 PDT Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 17:45:23 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8CA704B1B1684E5-990-2869@webmail-db15.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <400202.87273.qm@web52105.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.108 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=ugzHlB7Ij-Fp5yKxiGEvMNbraHqTWk6vsUQKe9B6STb7bvOGIA X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43609 And at their age she would be spot on! Cass Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: HPB would have sat on them and squished them long ago with a might cry of "Flapdoodle!" Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 2:29 am Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election The TS was supposed to be revolutionary in its ideas and modus operandi. I think HPB would be repeating dufus,dufus,dufus. Le them play their little egotistical games, let the power struggle continue, it will change nothing in the long run for them or for the TS. The TS has served its function as a medium for the teachings of the Masters through HPB, they are simply adding more materialistic coals to the burning. Cass Richard Semock wrote: I'll tell the mahatmas you said that. Its really amazing tho how the TS grew into a worldwide organization altho I doubt that HPB would be pleased with the politics that it takes to run it. But then isnt that the evolutionary path that every org, person, or country for that matter takes when the ideas that spawned them descend into matter. In the case of the TS, Im convinced that there was and still is a powerful spiritual force behind it but it needs to break out of the forms that bind it from time to time. --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva wrote: > > That's how 'the old boys club' works. Play by my rules. Brotherhood, imo, does not mean joining up to other associations but respecting their choices. > > Cass > --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Sat Apr 19 20:39:22 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 69566 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2008 03:39:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2008 03:39:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m21.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.2) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Apr 2008 03:39:19 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.bda.278ec8f8 (37115) for ; Sat, 19 Apr 2008 23:39:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from FWM-D37 (fwm-d37.webmail.aol.com [205.188.162.13]) by cia-ma01.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMA011-90fb480abadd2be; Sat, 19 Apr 2008 23:39:09 -0400 References: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 23:39:09 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.229.193.240 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36012-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.229.193.240 by FWM-D37.sysops.aol.com (205.188.162.13) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sat, 19 Apr 2008 23:39:09 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA70AF39D8EC92-1628-D41@FWM-D37.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.2 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Professional Theosophists X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=VLNOiLzoNsp7gSTx1bO7goh29X57ZqpaLOsUcAyaU6QF5h332Q X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43610 Excellent points.? In fact, we used to refer to them as exactly that, "professional Theosophists."? It all brings to mind a story about a gathering at Olcott when John was the US National President.? The guest was from France and the subject of TS politics came up.? She made the usual point about the President being both an administrator and being regarded as a spiritual authority.? Everyone laughed, to her surprise, and John said, "One thing no US society President ever has to worry about is being regarded as an authority figure of any kind." Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: kpauljohnson To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 4:01 pm Subject: Theos-World Professional Theosophists This is in response to themes mentioned by several of you, an insight that your comments inspired. It seems to me that what Radha and John have in common, and what is disastrous to the health of the organization, isn't just that they are octogenarians but professional Theosophists. People who have been involved in the TS for well over half a century and been in the inner circle of leadership almost that long. I had a much more positive personal relationship with Grace Knoche than either John (negative) or Radha (nonexistent) but she exemplified the same pattern. Born into Theosophy, no meaningful professional engagement outside the Theosophical world, in the inner circle her entire life. My experience with ARE was quite unlike that with the TS in that no one ever said or wrote a critical word about my book on Cayce. It just didn't inspire controversy despite being in some ways the most critical book ever written about him. But it was very much like the TS experience in that there was a cadre of professional Cayceites who ran everything and always would and outsiders would forever be so. One had normal conversations with all the other members, but there was always something strained for me with the professional AREers or the professional Theosophists. I conclude that in both these cases and most others, the self-styled elites are in fact parasites who could not make it in the real world yet presume to preach to those who can and do. (Algeo's success in linguistics acknowledged as a sign that he's more than *just* a professional Theosophist.) Term limits are the only way to prevent takeovers by parasitical elites. Every library board, every nonprofit board I've ever belonged to had term limits, and none of them ever had the kind of problems I've seen with so- called "spiritual" organizations. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Sat Apr 19 23:29:22 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 78846 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2008 06:29:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2008 06:29:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mx01.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.11) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Apr 2008 06:29:18 -0000 X-Received: from 56341115.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.17.21] helo=khidr) by mx01.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1JnT37-0007zE-2o for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 08:29:18 +0200 Message-ID: <001a01c8a2af$e3cf9db0$15113456@khidr> To: Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 08:29:30 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.11 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" Subject: Turning methods into beliefs, and believe what they should practise X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=uaA4lodbQpbr1nrJIR0h9cAlhxX5KSTHexLKGGgsxWBw X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43611 To all readers My views are: - - - Growth, Deterioration, and Renewal - - - Real teaching starts with the Guardians, Lords of Knowledge and Understanding. It does not start with Love, Effort or Ac- tion, because real love, effort and action are made possible only through real knowledge. But when too many slightly covetous people appear or remain in a community, they turn methods into beliefs, and believe what they should practise. There are two conditions which can lead to the perishing of a group. In the first, there is too much insincerity in the people in charge. In the other a little insincerity spead among all the members constitutes the equivalent of one or more wholly self- ish people. The insincerity-flaw retards the progress of the leaders and of the others alike. Only searching self-examination can reveal it to them. If it were not for this flaw, they and the community would have arrived at their destination. It is well known, of course, that the worse the degree of self-esteem, the less able is the victim to detect it, or even contemplate it. To revert to the behaviour of the infected group: These individuals and their followers choose thoughts and actions which themselves smother most of the hope of success in human fulfilment. They may try to form a permanent orga- nization to aim for enlightenment. They probably subject every- one to the same exercises and observances forgetting the orig- inal intention, they turn practises and illustrative tales into a sort of history, whic they try to teach. If they posses litterature and contemporary memoires of teachers ('masters'), they use them to bolster a belief in their own rightness and the correctness of their procedures. They frequently use but a single method of interpretation of litterature and tradition, training people and not enabling them to become illuminated. The Centre has by this stage effectively disappeared. The work has instead become a kind of kingdom, intent upon con- serving but knowing what to conserve. The leaders and their adherents remain frozenly attached to its body, making it a place of imitation which concerves minor or irrelevant out- ward forms. They esteem, under other names, raw emotionality. Concurrently, there comes into being over-veneration of men, of groups and legend, and hosility towards others, and sometimes impatience. What was originally a unity splits into groups of varying interpretation or concentration, generally use- less, and observations which are inaccurate. By this point almost all reality and potentiality have been departed. The community has been effectively invaded and possessed without this develop- ment having been registered by its members. The truth may be obscured by the continued use, by the 'lame' community, of words and outward aspects, biographical reminiscenes, and other facets of the original knowledge. Certainly its members will believe that by these tokens they are continuing on the right path. Their only hope of retrival is in the exercise of cioncentrated efforts towards sincirity. This pattern is one reason why from time to time the Guardians must emerge and announce to the possessors of ears the renewal of the high tradition by means of apposite working. By now, naturally, to the strayed ones, these words will sound strange or inimical, like the speech of reason seems to the demented - absurd. One result of the condition is that without intending it the Guardians incur, variously, both over-enthusiastic support and also opposition to themselves in different sections of their audi- ence. Both reactions are unpromising, if expected, signs, just as objectionable as apathy. Working togther the parties must overcome these tenden- cies if success in reviveing the teaching is to be achieved. This is the story of every age upon earth. The only real vari- ant is the time-span during which this behaviour takes place. Those who have only little knowledge, and think that they have more than that of ordinary folk, are no less open to reason and to teaching than those who have no knowledge at all of the Tradition. This irony is a furhter complication. And yet they are better able to make progress in the Way once the outer husk of ageing has been softened. They some- times retain potentialities whose presence involves us in a chance to offer rescue. It is the furtherance of this duty, based upon our knowledge of the Tradition, the teaching and the conditions of parties (groups), that we can exercise skill, action love and effort. When the husk of people or groupings is too hardened, such individuals and communities will remain ike hard nuts which are being rapidly carried down a river, heedlessly. The water of comparison and understanding will not be able to soften them enough to help them sprout into seedlings be- fore they reach a dam where they pile up, abandoned and, unfortunately, uncomprehending. - - - - - - - Especially the last part of the text above on "Those who have only little knowledge, and think..." should be given consideration. Small groups have more quality in teaching than open groups if the members are sincere enough. Blavatsky knew about this on her level. M. Sufilight H. P. Blavatsky said: "The Society founded to remedy the glaring evils of Christianity, to shun bigotry and intolerance, cant and superstition and to cultivate real universal love extending even to the dumb brute". (The Collected Writings of H. P. Blavatsky, vol. 7, p.246) Master KH wrote in a Mahatma Letter: For the opposition represents enormous vested interests, and they have enthusiastic help from the Dugpas -- in Bhootan and the Vatican! (Here is all of Mahtama Letter, No. 55. Dugpas are the same as selfish Magicians.) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From anton_rozman@yahoo.com Sun Apr 20 03:11:27 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: anton_rozman@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 30895 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2008 10:11:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2008 10:11:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n50a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.144) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Apr 2008 10:11:24 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n50.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Apr 2008 10:11:24 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Apr 2008 10:11:24 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Apr 2008 10:11:24 -0000 Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 10:11:24 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.168.144 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 82.192.56.78 From: "Anton Rozman" Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=192242904; y=Q3gOBx4q-mFcFcIkdnbV7pgVuX_-iMey-iTnK44aifKJ7Kt9OBl9 X-Yahoo-Profile: anton_rozman X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43612 In the seventies of the last century Mr. I. K. Taimni wrote a book -=20 Principles of Theosophical Work - which he introduced with the=20 following words: The work of the Theosophical Society can be organized efficiently=20 only when the large majority of its members scattered throughout the=20 world understand clearly the aims of the Society and the general=20 principles which should guide them in planning and carrying out this=20 work. Then he suggested:=20 ... this movement has at least three well-defined though unspecified=20 functions in the present times. These may be stated as follows:=20 (1) To give to humanity certain deeper truths of life which are=20 needed for taking the next step in human evolution.=20 (2) To install certain universal guiding principles like Brotherhood=20 into the minds of people in general, so that it may become possible=20 to usher in a better world order.=20 (3) To provide agents in the outer world who understand the Plan in a=20 general way and can thus consciously co-operate with the Elder=20 Brethren in the work which They are doing for the betterment of the=20 human race.=20 Regarding the role of the TS and its members he said: It should, therefore, be clear that the Theosophical Society and the=20 individual members composing it should take a decisive, clear and=20 forceful lead in the shaping of world thought and world movements. So we see how the dissemination of these truths of Eternal Wisdom is=20 the primary, function of the Theosophical Society and a duty=20 incumbent upon all its members throughout the world. And regarding the general principles he proposed:=20 =85 it is necessary to consider a few general principles with regard to=20 the methods we are to use in its work.=20 The first important point we have to bear in mind in this connection=20 is the necessity of taking advantage of all the knowledge and=20 technique that are available in the world for doing work of a similar=20 nature. The second important point we have to keep in our mind all the time=20 is the necessity of adopting the experimental attitude towards the=20 methods we use in our work. The necessity of adopting the experimental attitude leads naturally=20 to the great importance of proper planning of our work. The planning of our work and its execution with efficiency requires=20 the services of a trained body of workers who can take up different=20 parts of the plan and carry them out in co-operation with one=20 another, and under the guidance of those who are in charge of the=20 work.... What is wanted, in addition, is the attitude of active=20 cooperation, the readiness and the capacity to work with people of=20 all kinds of temperaments and modes of thinking in the pursuit of a=20 common goal. You can now read the book on: http://www.teozofija.info/Teozofsko_gibanje/Taimni_Principles_E.htm Best regards, Anton --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, MKR wrote: > > Several years ago, I posted a msg in the same vein when no young=20 leadership > was on the horizon anywhere. Upcoming organizations and movements=20 always are > led by young or middle aged leaders and never by octogenarians.=20 Octogenrian > ideas and visions have never been revolutionary, even though they=20 may be > imagining or day dreaming. More likely such octogernian ideas will=20 run the > orgn into a deep hole. Even looking back, the orgn has been on=20 maintenance > mode with decreasing (in %) membership and old (wise) people=20 leading it. >=20 > mkr >=20 >=20 > On 4/19/08, Cass Silva wrote: > > > > The TS was supposed to be revolutionary in its ideas and modus=20 operandi. > > I think HPB would be repeating dufus,dufus,dufus. Le them play=20 their little > > egotistical games, let the power struggle continue, it will=20 change nothing > > in the long run for them or for the TS. The TS has served its=20 function as a > > medium for the teachings of the Masters through HPB, they are=20 simply adding > > more materialistic coals to the burning. > > > > > > Cass > > > > Richard Semock > wrote: > > I'll tell the mahatmas you said that. > > > > Its really amazing tho how the TS grew into a worldwide=20 organization > > altho I doubt that HPB would be pleased with the politics that it=20 takes > > to run it. But then isnt that the evolutionary path that every=20 org, > > person, or country for that matter takes when the ideas that=20 spawned > > them descend into matter. In the case of the TS, Im convinced that > > there was and still is a powerful spiritual force behind it but it > > needs to break out of the forms that bind it from time to time. > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ,=20 Cass > > Silva wrote: > > > > > > That's how 'the old boys club' works. Play by my rules. > > Brotherhood, imo, does not mean joining up to other associations=20 but > > respecting their choices. > > > > > > Cass > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!=20 Mobile. Try it > > now. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >=20 > > >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > From nenqueteba2000@yahoo.com.ar Sun Apr 20 16:03:42 2008 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27415 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2008 23:03:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Apr 2008 23:03:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.213) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Apr 2008 23:03:39 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Apr 2008 23:03:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Apr 2008 23:03:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Apr 2008 23:03:39 -0000 X-Sender: nenqueteba2000@yahoo.com.ar X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 37396 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2008 19:20:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Apr 2008 19:20:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web32903.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (209.191.69.80) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Apr 2008 19:20:54 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 28081 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Apr 2008 19:20:54 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: T2a3axsVM1lLrCF48vCQ14j2AK6_G7XwOWW5HrGmE0VNL7zjkt_HXyAtrjPK8UCfyBFmwi3InhCuRd59wlhRizSAc.ZilOoGz9cxfIrlXO.8EiKDZW25iiSlGNCn5rzNJLkrMCsuLEqLslLGDnBPjpNeHtgBafBfooY- X-Received: from [190.28.118.134] by web32903.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 19 Apr 2008 12:20:54 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/902.40 YahooMailWebService/0.7.185 Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 12:20:54 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <295221.27073.qm@web32903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 209.191.69.80 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Noel vasco Subject: Re: Theos-World TS International Election? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=208108019; y=xRZqD8sIg307HenIAw9b66LBzb4z4WO2bhi2WPp9QJIVwd-HvyxgVkM X-Yahoo-Profile: nenqueteba2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: eldon_tucker via web; 20 Apr 2008 23:03:38 -0000 X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43613 I don=C2=B4t understand how persons that seem to hate "octogenarians" conti= nue in an organization guided by "octogenarians"... I think they are trying= to help! it must be a weird kind of Brotherhood. It does not matter that "the goddess" Blavatsky "worship" Plat=C3=B3n who t= aught us (Republic, Book I) to value "old" people... It must be a weird kin= d of brotherhood, without ancients... I imagine they are young people, but I do not see them postulating themselv= es... Outside it=C2=B4s so easy. ----- Mensaje original ---- De: Martin Para: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Enviado: s=C3=A1bado 19 de abril de 2008, 7:46:30 Asunto: Re: Theos-World TS International Election? Prunes and old age, that combination isn't very tasty...and there is a choice: umeboshi (salted prunes) or sweet blue ones. In both cases I suggest whole dark wheat bread :-) Tar and feathers when none will play the game. --- Drpsionic@aol. com wrote: > This is getting to be fun!!? Maybe John and Radha > can fight a duel--squirt guns filled with prune > juice. >=20 > Chuck the?Heretic >=20 >=20 > http://www.geocitie s.com/c_cosimano=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: MKR > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com; > theos-L@yahoogroups .com > Sent: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:17 am > Subject: Theos-World TS International Election? >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > In a footnote in the letter circulated to French > members it says: >=20 > NB: We have learned that as of today Germany, > Finland, Spain, Italy, > Portugal, Sweden, the USA, Colombia and Argentina > have decided to > write in a similar vein to their members. >=20 > If anyone comes across letters from any of the above > countries as well as > any other countries, can you post it here so that we > know how the campaign > is fought. >=20 > mkr >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] >=20 >=20 ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Be a better friend, newshound, and=20 know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. yahoo.com/ ;_ylt= =3DAhu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ =20 Los referentes m=C3=A1s importantes en compra/ venta de autos se junt= aron: Demotores y Yahoo! Ahora comprar o vender tu auto es m=C3=A1s f=C3=A1cil. Vist=C3=A1 ar.autos.= yahoo.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Sun Apr 20 17:02:43 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 73456 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2008 00:02:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Apr 2008 00:02:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52102.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.105) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Apr 2008 00:02:40 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 37162 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Apr 2008 00:02:40 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: XC5fw1gVM1lEOqfYQNXXV_n9fZl.LLARzjQ9QnKnoMgJHAYNkoUuR8pyd1aTWxtuDg-- X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52102.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 17:02:40 PDT Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 17:02:40 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <295221.27073.qm@web32903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <445172.33586.qm@web52102.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.105 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World TS International Election? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=h-TbKX_mtr3VfZjNCYh9-ulfj_Zh7Oo9Eo_vIt63piuwSIwiPw X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43614 I'm not so sure Noel. The old were regarded as Wise and for that reason th= eir counsel was sought, but to actually hold the reins suggests to me that = wisdom is lacking and ambition is rank. The Queen Mother probably holds th= e view that a) she is either wiser than Charles or b) he can wait.=20=20 =20=20=20 Cass Noel vasco wrote: I don=B4t understand how persons that seem to hate "octogenarians= " continue in an organization guided by "octogenarians"... I think they are= trying to help! it must be a weird kind of Brotherhood. It does not matter that "the goddess" Blavatsky "worship" Plat=F3n who taug= ht us (Republic, Book I) to value "old" people... It must be a weird kind o= f brotherhood, without ancients... I imagine they are young people, but I do not see them postulating themselv= es... Outside it=B4s so easy. ----- Mensaje original ---- De: Martin Para: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Enviado: s=E1bado 19 de abril de 2008, 7:46:30 Asunto: Re: Theos-World TS International Election? Prunes and old age, that combination isn't very tasty...and there is a choice: umeboshi (salted prunes) or sweet blue ones. In both cases I suggest whole dark wheat bread :-) Tar and feathers when none will play the game. --- Drpsionic@aol. com wrote: > This is getting to be fun!!? Maybe John and Radha > can fight a duel--squirt guns filled with prune > juice. >=20 > Chuck the?Heretic >=20 >=20 > http://www.geocitie s.com/c_cosimano=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: MKR > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com; > theos-L@yahoogroups .com > Sent: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:17 am > Subject: Theos-World TS International Election? >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > In a footnote in the letter circulated to French > members it says: >=20 > NB: We have learned that as of today Germany, > Finland, Spain, Italy, > Portugal, Sweden, the USA, Colombia and Argentina > have decided to > write in a similar vein to their members. >=20 > If anyone comes across letters from any of the above > countries as well as > any other countries, can you post it here so that we > know how the campaign > is fought. >=20 > mkr >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] >=20 >=20 ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Be a better friend, newshound, and=20 know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. yahoo.com/ ;_ylt= =3DAhu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ Los referentes m=E1s importantes en compra/ venta de autos se juntaron: Demotores y Yahoo! Ahora comprar o vender tu auto es m=E1s f=E1cil. Vist=E1 ar.autos.yahoo.com= / [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] = =20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it = now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Sun Apr 20 17:34:28 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 8233 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2008 00:34:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Apr 2008 00:34:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52106.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.109) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Apr 2008 00:34:26 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 16090 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Apr 2008 00:34:25 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: SwUCKVEVM1lbNJU5.u7D.gXKiuVwGVb7ePkc9wkgwYIqpMjwFJN4LsJ4fNNUBO752m1cVVDs9lx8xPjNvCYMb82QSFWvxNfh8FXveSlpKKOTXklIjLEuE5V5WSg- X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52106.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 17:34:25 PDT Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 17:34:25 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <636331.15610.qm@web52106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.109 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Professional Theosophists X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=pJW6CqeyO4__85i2Rm-iD4x6nofReXASRh6SZU7502fugQIttQ X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43615 Haven't read your book on Cayce, Paul, do you think he was a fraud? Cass kpauljohnson wrote: This is in response to themes mentioned by several of you, an insight that your comments inspired. It seems to me that what Radha and John have in common, and what is disastrous to the health of the organization, isn't just that they are octogenarians but professional Theosophists. People who have been involved in the TS for well over half a century and been in the inner circle of leadership almost that long. I had a much more positive personal relationship with Grace Knoche than either John (negative) or Radha (nonexistent) but she exemplified the same pattern. Born into Theosophy, no meaningful professional engagement outside the Theosophical world, in the inner circle her entire life. My experience with ARE was quite unlike that with the TS in that no one ever said or wrote a critical word about my book on Cayce. It just didn't inspire controversy despite being in some ways the most critical book ever written about him. But it was very much like the TS experience in that there was a cadre of professional Cayceites who ran everything and always would and outsiders would forever be so. One had normal conversations with all the other members, but there was always something strained for me with the professional AREers or the professional Theosophists. I conclude that in both these cases and most others, the self-styled elites are in fact parasites who could not make it in the real world yet presume to preach to those who can and do. (Algeo's success in linguistics acknowledged as a sign that he's more than *just* a professional Theosophist.) Term limits are the only way to prevent takeovers by parasitical elites. Every library board, every nonprofit board I've ever belonged to had term limits, and none of them ever had the kind of problems I've seen with so- called "spiritual" organizations. --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Sun Apr 20 18:34:44 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 82329 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2008 01:34:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Apr 2008 01:34:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m25.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.6) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Apr 2008 01:34:42 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d1a.23b7c62e (37134) for ; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 21:34:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from MBLK-M33 (mblk-m33.mblk.aol.com [64.12.136.77]) by cia-ma02.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMA028-910e480bef2e23e; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 21:34:38 -0400 References: <295221.27073.qm@web32903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 21:34:38 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.229.193.240 In-Reply-To: <295221.27073.qm@web32903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36012-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.229.193.240 by MBLK-M33.sysops.aol.com (64.12.136.77) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sun, 20 Apr 2008 21:34:38 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA7166FF3C7890-1360-57DF@MBLK-M33.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.6 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World TS International Election? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=Q1nx3KPuQQJpwzYdErI2-XXlwqpn4E1tGmcaf831SaA3YDhO1g X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43616 Aside from the fact that Plato was a nutcase better ignored than venerated,= (read his Laws, you'll see what I mean.=C2=A0 Hitler would have loved his = ideal state.) the objection to the age of the candidates is a little strang= e considering that very few of us in the TS are spring chickens ourselves!= =C2=A0 I think it is that folks need something to object to without soundin= g like they are really insulting either candidate. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano=20 -----Original Message----- From: Noel vasco To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 2:20 pm Subject: Re: Theos-World TS International Election? I don=C2=B4t understand how persons that seem to hate "octogenarians" conti= nue in an organization guided by "octogenarians"... I think they are trying= to help! it must be a weird kind of Brotherhood. It does not matter that "the goddess" Blavatsky "worship" Plat=C3=B3n who t= aught us (Republic, Book I) to value "old" people... It must be a weird kin= d of brotherhood, without ancients... I imagine they are young people, but I do not see them postulating themselv= es... Outside it=C2=B4s so easy. ----- Mensaje original ---- De: Martin Para: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Enviado: s=C3=A1bado 19 de abril de 2008, 7:46:30 Asunto: Re: Theos-World TS International Election? Prunes and old age, that combination isn't very tasty...and there is a choice: umeboshi (salted prunes) or sweet blue ones. In both cases I suggest whole dark wheat bread :-) Tar and feathers when none will play the game. --- Drpsionic@aol. com wrote: > This is getting to be fun!!? Maybe John and Radha > can fight a duel--squirt guns filled with prune > juice. >=20 > Chuck the?Heretic >=20 >=20 > http://www.geocitie s.com/c_cosimano=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: MKR > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com; > theos-L@yahoogroups .com > Sent: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:17 am > Subject: Theos-World TS International Election? >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > In a footnote in the letter circulated to French > members it says: >=20 > NB: We have learned that as of today Germany, > Finland, Spain, Italy, > Portugal, Sweden, the USA, Colombia and Argentina > have decided to > write in a similar vein to their members. >=20 > If anyone comes across letters from any of the above > countries as well as > any other countries, can you post it here so that we > know how the campaign > is fought. >=20 > mkr >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] >=20 >=20 ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Be a better friend, newshound, and=20 know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. yahoo.com/ ;_ylt= =3DAhu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ Los referentes m=C3=A1s importantes en compra/ venta de autos se juntaron: Demotores y Yahoo! Ahora comprar o vender tu auto es m=C3=A1s f=C3=A1cil. Vist=C3=A1 ar.autos.= yahoo.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Sun Apr 20 18:36:34 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 87124 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2008 01:36:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Apr 2008 01:36:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d04.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.36) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Apr 2008 01:36:34 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d0c.2e8fa33c (37531) for ; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 21:36:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from MBLK-M33 (mblk-m33.mblk.aol.com [64.12.136.77]) by cia-mb01.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMB014-929b480bef9d250; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 21:36:30 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 21:36:29 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.229.193.240 In-Reply-To: <445172.33586.qm@web52102.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36012-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.229.193.240 by MBLK-M33.sysops.aol.com (64.12.136.77) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sun, 20 Apr 2008 21:36:29 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA716741718A0D-1360-57FE@MBLK-M33.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.157.36 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World TS International Election? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=8yiWZFSTE1JnVHBBTm9XZO484qxunhaJ7BtbGf3bEYT-_al19Q X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43617 I think in the case of the queen, it has something to do with her hats.=C2= =A0 She thinks that she looks better in them than Charles would. Besides, he's too busy being the Great Architect of the Universe. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano=20 -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 7:02 pm Subject: Re: Theos-World TS International Election? I'm not so sure Noel. The old were regarded as Wise and for that reason the= ir counsel was sought, but to actually hold the reins suggests to me that w= isdom is lacking and ambition is rank. The Queen Mother probably holds the = view that a) she is either wiser than Charles or b) he can wait.=20 Cass Noel vasco wrote: I don=C2=B4t understand how persons that seem to hate "octogenarians" conti= nue in an organization guided by "octogenarians"... I think they are trying= to help! it must be a weird kind of Brotherhood. It does not matter that "the goddess" Blavatsky "worship" Plat=C3=B3n who t= aught us (Republic, Book I) to value "old" people... It must be a weird kin= d of brotherhood, without ancients... I imagine they are young people, but I do not see them postulating themselv= es... Outside it=C2=B4s so easy. ----- Mensaje original ---- De: Martin Para: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Enviado: s=C3=A1bado 19 de abril de 2008, 7:46:30 Asunto: Re: Theos-World TS International Election? Prunes and old age, that combination isn't very tasty...and there is a choice: umeboshi (salted prunes) or sweet blue ones. In both cases I suggest whole dark wheat bread :-) Tar and feathers when none will play the game. --- Drpsionic@aol. com wrote: > This is getting to be fun!!? Maybe John and Radha > can fight a duel--squirt guns filled with prune > juice. >=20 > Chuck the?Heretic >=20 >=20 > http://www.geocitie s.com/c_cosimano=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: MKR > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com; > theos-L@yahoogroups .com > Sent: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:17 am > Subject: Theos-World TS International Election? >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > In a footnote in the letter circulated to French > members it says: >=20 > NB: We have learned that as of today Germany, > Finland, Spain, Italy, > Portugal, Sweden, the USA, Colombia and Argentina > have decided to > write in a similar vein to their members. >=20 > If anyone comes across letters from any of the above > countries as well as > any other countries, can you post it here so that we > know how the campaign > is fought. >=20 > mkr >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] >=20 >=20 ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Be a better friend, newshound, and=20 know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. yahoo.com/ ;_ylt= =3DAhu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ Los referentes m=C3=A1s importantes en compra/ venta de autos se juntaron: Demotores y Yahoo! Ahora comprar o vender tu auto es m=C3=A1s f=C3=A1cil. Vist=C3=A1 ar.autos.= yahoo.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it n= ow. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Sun Apr 20 21:21:10 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 64771 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2008 04:21:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Apr 2008 04:21:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52112.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.115) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Apr 2008 04:21:07 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 64464 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Apr 2008 04:21:06 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: v9wV2JwVM1lc3BmAZnxg44gJg2gxAYozEbQE0wGF_TKTVzTrCe5WZPzxkDtxs_yQfA-- X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52112.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 20 Apr 2008 21:21:06 PDT Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 21:21:06 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8CA716741718A0D-1360-57FE@MBLK-M33.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <723342.62046.qm@web52112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.115 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World TS International Election? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=sNr40qLtFAuy1EqA28EdY0PZTCKQ7OoInoEeU8C8FtuP2Q8myg X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43618 Good one , no two Cass Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: I think in the case of the queen, it has something to do with her= hats. She thinks that she looks better in them than Charles would. Besides, he's too busy being the Great Architect of the Universe. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano=20 -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 7:02 pm Subject: Re: Theos-World TS International Election? I'm not so sure Noel. The old were regarded as Wise and for that reason the= ir counsel was sought, but to actually hold the reins suggests to me that w= isdom is lacking and ambition is rank. The Queen Mother probably holds the = view that a) she is either wiser than Charles or b) he can wait.=20 Cass Noel vasco wrote: I don=B4t understand how persons that seem to hate "octogenarians" continue= in an organization guided by "octogenarians"... I think they are trying to= help! it must be a weird kind of Brotherhood. It does not matter that "the goddess" Blavatsky "worship" Plat=F3n who taug= ht us (Republic, Book I) to value "old" people... It must be a weird kind o= f brotherhood, without ancients... I imagine they are young people, but I do not see them postulating themselv= es... Outside it=B4s so easy. ----- Mensaje original ---- De: Martin Para: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Enviado: s=E1bado 19 de abril de 2008, 7:46:30 Asunto: Re: Theos-World TS International Election? Prunes and old age, that combination isn't very tasty...and there is a choice: umeboshi (salted prunes) or sweet blue ones. In both cases I suggest whole dark wheat bread :-) Tar and feathers when none will play the game. --- Drpsionic@aol. com wrote: > This is getting to be fun!!? Maybe John and Radha > can fight a duel--squirt guns filled with prune > juice. >=20 > Chuck the?Heretic >=20 >=20 > http://www.geocitie s.com/c_cosimano=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: MKR > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com; > theos-L@yahoogroups .com > Sent: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:17 am > Subject: Theos-World TS International Election? >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > In a footnote in the letter circulated to French > members it says: >=20 > NB: We have learned that as of today Germany, > Finland, Spain, Italy, > Portugal, Sweden, the USA, Colombia and Argentina > have decided to > write in a similar vein to their members. >=20 > If anyone comes across letters from any of the above > countries as well as > any other countries, can you post it here so that we > know how the campaign > is fought. >=20 > mkr >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] >=20 >=20 ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ Be a better friend, newshound, and=20 know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. yahoo.com/ ;_ylt= =3DAhu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ Los referentes m=E1s importantes en compra/ venta de autos se juntaron: Demotores y Yahoo! Ahora comprar o vender tu auto es m=E1s f=E1cil. Vist=E1 ar.autos.yahoo.com= / [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it n= ow. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] = =20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it = now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com Mon Apr 21 01:19:22 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 99313 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2008 08:19:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Apr 2008 08:19:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n12b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.110) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Apr 2008 08:19:19 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n12.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Apr 2008 08:19:16 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Apr 2008 08:19:16 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Apr 2008 08:19:16 -0000 Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 08:19:16 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.110 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 83.87.102.145 From: "christinaleestemaker" Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162317756; y=9BepVPqHS2T4qlEEI9Arff_2-qlZ70qYIx7_vsgTaPqvnl48GNGg_k8kry3kiUc X-Yahoo-Profile: christinaleestemaker X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43619 Thanks Anton I did not know this book of Taimni He give excellent points. Christina --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Anton Rozman" =20 wrote: > > In the seventies of the last century Mr. I. K. Taimni wrote a book=20 -=20 > Principles of Theosophical Work - which he introduced with the=20 > following words: >=20 > The work of the Theosophical Society can be organized efficiently=20 > only when the large majority of its members scattered throughout=20 the=20 > world understand clearly the aims of the Society and the general=20 > principles which should guide them in planning and carrying out=20 this=20 > work. >=20 > Then he suggested:=20 >=20 > ... this movement has at least three well-defined though=20 unspecified=20 > functions in the present times. These may be stated as follows:=20 >=20 > (1) To give to humanity certain deeper truths of life which are=20 > needed for taking the next step in human evolution.=20 >=20 > (2) To install certain universal guiding principles like=20 Brotherhood=20 > into the minds of people in general, so that it may become=20 possible=20 > to usher in a better world order.=20 >=20 > (3) To provide agents in the outer world who understand the Plan=20 in a=20 > general way and can thus consciously co-operate with the Elder=20 > Brethren in the work which They are doing for the betterment of=20 the=20 > human race.=20 >=20 > Regarding the role of the TS and its members he said: >=20 > It should, therefore, be clear that the Theosophical Society and=20 the=20 > individual members composing it should take a decisive, clear and=20 > forceful lead in the shaping of world thought and world movements. >=20 > So we see how the dissemination of these truths of Eternal Wisdom=20 is=20 > the primary, function of the Theosophical Society and a duty=20 > incumbent upon all its members throughout the world. >=20 > And regarding the general principles he proposed:=20 >=20 > =85 it is necessary to consider a few general principles with regard=20 to=20 > the methods we are to use in its work.=20 >=20 > The first important point we have to bear in mind in this=20 connection=20 > is the necessity of taking advantage of all the knowledge and=20 > technique that are available in the world for doing work of a=20 similar=20 > nature. >=20 > The second important point we have to keep in our mind all the=20 time=20 > is the necessity of adopting the experimental attitude towards the=20 > methods we use in our work. >=20 > The necessity of adopting the experimental attitude leads=20 naturally=20 > to the great importance of proper planning of our work. >=20 > The planning of our work and its execution with efficiency=20 requires=20 > the services of a trained body of workers who can take up=20 different=20 > parts of the plan and carry them out in co-operation with one=20 > another, and under the guidance of those who are in charge of the=20 > work.... What is wanted, in addition, is the attitude of active=20 > cooperation, the readiness and the capacity to work with people of=20 > all kinds of temperaments and modes of thinking in the pursuit of=20 a=20 > common goal. >=20 > You can now read the book on: > http://www.teozofija.info/Teozofsko_gibanje/Taimni_Principles_E.htm >=20 > Best regards, > Anton >=20 >=20 > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, MKR wrote: > > > > Several years ago, I posted a msg in the same vein when no young=20 > leadership > > was on the horizon anywhere. Upcoming organizations and=20 movements=20 > always are > > led by young or middle aged leaders and never by octogenarians.=20 > Octogenrian > > ideas and visions have never been revolutionary, even though=20 they=20 > may be > > imagining or day dreaming. More likely such octogernian ideas=20 will=20 > run the > > orgn into a deep hole. Even looking back, the orgn has been on=20 > maintenance > > mode with decreasing (in %) membership and old (wise) people=20 > leading it. > >=20 > > mkr > >=20 > >=20 > > On 4/19/08, Cass Silva wrote: > > > > > > The TS was supposed to be revolutionary in its ideas and=20 modus=20 > operandi. > > > I think HPB would be repeating dufus,dufus,dufus. Le them play=20 > their little > > > egotistical games, let the power struggle continue, it will=20 > change nothing > > > in the long run for them or for the TS. The TS has served its=20 > function as a > > > medium for the teachings of the Masters through HPB, they are=20 > simply adding > > > more materialistic coals to the burning. > > > > > > > > > Cass > > > > > > Richard Semock > wrote: > > > I'll tell the mahatmas you said that. > > > > > > Its really amazing tho how the TS grew into a worldwide=20 > organization > > > altho I doubt that HPB would be pleased with the politics that=20 it=20 > takes > > > to run it. But then isnt that the evolutionary path that every=20 > org, > > > person, or country for that matter takes when the ideas that=20 > spawned > > > them descend into matter. In the case of the TS, Im convinced=20 that > > > there was and still is a powerful spiritual force behind it=20 but it > > > needs to break out of the forms that bind it from time to time. > > > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ,=20 > Cass > > > Silva wrote: > > > > > > > > That's how 'the old boys club' works. Play by my rules. > > > Brotherhood, imo, does not mean joining up to other=20 associations=20 > but > > > respecting their choices. > > > > > > > > Cass > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!=20 > Mobile. Try it > > > now. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >=20 > > > > >=20 > >=20 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > From anton_rozman@yahoo.com Mon Apr 21 01:39:37 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: anton_rozman@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 3931 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2008 08:39:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Apr 2008 08:39:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n53d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.79) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Apr 2008 08:39:35 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n53.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Apr 2008 08:39:35 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Apr 2008 08:39:35 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Apr 2008 08:39:35 -0000 Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 08:39:35 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.169.79 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 82.192.56.78 From: "Anton Rozman" Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=192242904; y=tZ3vOaEQfaGDWZOryQHFhk7cXpyBeHnDLWS9bZC13JAUr4oDujzr X-Yahoo-Profile: anton_rozman X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43620 Christina,=20 thank you very much for your feedback. Although it can be a little=20 out of date it anyway represent an indispensable reading of every=20 member of the TS. Best regards, Anton --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "christinaleestemaker"=20 wrote: > > Thanks Anton > I did not know this book of Taimni > He give excellent points. > Christina >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Anton Rozman" =20 > wrote: > > > > In the seventies of the last century Mr. I. K. Taimni wrote a=20 book=20 > -=20 > > Principles of Theosophical Work - which he introduced with the=20 > > following words: > >=20 > > The work of the Theosophical Society can be organized efficiently=20 > > only when the large majority of its members scattered throughout=20 > the=20 > > world understand clearly the aims of the Society and the general=20 > > principles which should guide them in planning and carrying out=20 > this=20 > > work. > >=20 > > Then he suggested:=20 > >=20 > > ... this movement has at least three well-defined though=20 > unspecified=20 > > functions in the present times. These may be stated as follows:=20 > >=20 > > (1) To give to humanity certain deeper truths of life which are=20 > > needed for taking the next step in human evolution.=20 > >=20 > > (2) To install certain universal guiding principles like=20 > Brotherhood=20 > > into the minds of people in general, so that it may become=20 > possible=20 > > to usher in a better world order.=20 > >=20 > > (3) To provide agents in the outer world who understand the Plan=20 > in a=20 > > general way and can thus consciously co-operate with the Elder=20 > > Brethren in the work which They are doing for the betterment of=20 > the=20 > > human race.=20 > >=20 > > Regarding the role of the TS and its members he said: > >=20 > > It should, therefore, be clear that the Theosophical Society and=20 > the=20 > > individual members composing it should take a decisive, clear and=20 > > forceful lead in the shaping of world thought and world movements. > >=20 > > So we see how the dissemination of these truths of Eternal Wisdom=20 > is=20 > > the primary, function of the Theosophical Society and a duty=20 > > incumbent upon all its members throughout the world. > >=20 > > And regarding the general principles he proposed:=20 > >=20 > > =85 it is necessary to consider a few general principles with=20 regard=20 > to=20 > > the methods we are to use in its work.=20 > >=20 > > The first important point we have to bear in mind in this=20 > connection=20 > > is the necessity of taking advantage of all the knowledge and=20 > > technique that are available in the world for doing work of a=20 > similar=20 > > nature. > >=20 > > The second important point we have to keep in our mind all the=20 > time=20 > > is the necessity of adopting the experimental attitude towards=20 the=20 > > methods we use in our work. > >=20 > > The necessity of adopting the experimental attitude leads=20 > naturally=20 > > to the great importance of proper planning of our work. > >=20 > > The planning of our work and its execution with efficiency=20 > requires=20 > > the services of a trained body of workers who can take up=20 > different=20 > > parts of the plan and carry them out in co-operation with one=20 > > another, and under the guidance of those who are in charge of the=20 > > work.... What is wanted, in addition, is the attitude of active=20 > > cooperation, the readiness and the capacity to work with people=20 of=20 > > all kinds of temperaments and modes of thinking in the pursuit of=20 > a=20 > > common goal. > >=20 > > You can now read the book on: > >=20 http://www.teozofija.info/Teozofsko_gibanje/Taimni_Principles_E.htm > >=20 > > Best regards, > > Anton > >=20 > >=20 > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, MKR wrote: > > > > > > Several years ago, I posted a msg in the same vein when no=20 young=20 > > leadership > > > was on the horizon anywhere. Upcoming organizations and=20 > movements=20 > > always are > > > led by young or middle aged leaders and never by octogenarians.=20 > > Octogenrian > > > ideas and visions have never been revolutionary, even though=20 > they=20 > > may be > > > imagining or day dreaming. More likely such octogernian ideas=20 > will=20 > > run the > > > orgn into a deep hole. Even looking back, the orgn has been on=20 > > maintenance > > > mode with decreasing (in %) membership and old (wise) people=20 > > leading it. > > >=20 > > > mkr > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > On 4/19/08, Cass Silva wrote: > > > > > > > > The TS was supposed to be revolutionary in its ideas and=20 > modus=20 > > operandi. > > > > I think HPB would be repeating dufus,dufus,dufus. Le them=20 play=20 > > their little > > > > egotistical games, let the power struggle continue, it will=20 > > change nothing > > > > in the long run for them or for the TS. The TS has served its=20 > > function as a > > > > medium for the teachings of the Masters through HPB, they are=20 > > simply adding > > > > more materialistic coals to the burning. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cass > > > > > > > > Richard Semock > wrote: > > > > I'll tell the mahatmas you said that. > > > > > > > > Its really amazing tho how the TS grew into a worldwide=20 > > organization > > > > altho I doubt that HPB would be pleased with the politics=20 that=20 > it=20 > > takes > > > > to run it. But then isnt that the evolutionary path that=20 every=20 > > org, > > > > person, or country for that matter takes when the ideas that=20 > > spawned > > > > them descend into matter. In the case of the TS, Im convinced=20 > that > > > > there was and still is a powerful spiritual force behind it=20 > but it > > > > needs to break out of the forms that bind it from time to=20 time. > > > > > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com talk%40yahoogroups.com>,=20 > > Cass > > > > Silva wrote: > > > > > > > > > > That's how 'the old boys club' works. Play by my rules. > > > > Brotherhood, imo, does not mean joining up to other=20 > associations=20 > > but > > > > respecting their choices. > > > > > > > > > > Cass > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!=20 > > Mobile. Try it > > > > now. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > From kpauljohnson@yahoo.com Mon Apr 21 05:32:58 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: kpauljohnson@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 28207 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2008 12:32:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Apr 2008 12:32:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n14.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.141) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Apr 2008 12:32:56 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.89] by n14.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Apr 2008 12:32:55 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t5.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Apr 2008 12:32:55 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Apr 2008 12:32:55 -0000 Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:32:55 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.103.141 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 24.167.163.100 From: "kpauljohnson" Subject: Cayce links X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=85941729; y=Ee1VVMjPf_7p_ffCD7waikESpBST9_MOK90j5V1YOf2jpftE7gVq X-Yahoo-Profile: kpauljohnson X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43621 Hi Cass, My take on Cayce is that there is great variety in the quality of the=20 material he produced in trance, but that he was sincere and trying to=20 help people. Here's a review that appeared in the ARE's publication: http://www.creativespirit.net/henryreed/bookreviews/4book9810.htm and one from a well-known skeptic: http://www.ciis.edu/cayce/lane.html Another reviewer said that the book "hovers between" etic and emic=20 approaches, that is outsider analysis vs. insider sympathy. Sound=20 right to me. Paul From mkr777@gmail.com Mon Apr 21 16:42:54 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 42856 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2008 23:42:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Apr 2008 23:42:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.248) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Apr 2008 23:42:52 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id d26so646481and.130 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:42:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.190.14 with SMTP id n14mr6516547anf.98.1208821371796; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:42:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:42:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:42:51 -0500 To: theos-L@yahoogroups.com, theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.248 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=xl9aGVM0wQ_oNT_v7ud72qVhp7X8_VT2Pf34t7z7ZaFIeFwN5gM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43622 *Has anyone seen/received the Election Ballot? If so, can you post it here or E-MAIL me direct. Thanks* *MKR777@GMAIL.COM* [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Mon Apr 21 17:46:59 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 74080 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2008 00:46:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Apr 2008 00:46:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wx-out-0506.google.com) (66.249.82.236) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Apr 2008 00:46:56 -0000 X-Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id h27so1542915wxd.15 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 17:46:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.123.4 with SMTP id v4mr13583869anc.7.1208825213265; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 17:46:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 17:46:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:46:53 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 66.249.82.236 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS President Election - Some Questions X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=5kJ7VRxI9rgln3oCybU2A8K82lmCbJ49SsVn9GOIoZSGpFP4Kzo Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43623 Pedro should be congratulated for posting the msg detailing what went on during the nomination process. And Internet helped to create the problem as well getting the word out on the politicking that took place. On reviewing it, several questions arise in my mind. 1. First and foremost, Elvira Carbonell is the one who contacted the General Council members before the official call papers for nomination w= ere received by them, was privy to the fact that the papers were mailed and = it was due to her position as assistant to the Intl Secretary. Her action l= ooks like serious misconduct of an employee who handles important and confidential matters. In all organizations, such misconduct results in immediate termination of the employee and will be asked to immediately c= lear out the offices and as well as any accommodation provided by the employe= r. It would be interesting to find out what actions were taken. 2. Secondly, such conduct in an organization such as TS is very serious and it only brings to my mind the actions of Columbs during HPB days. 3. The mailing out of the call for nominations took place on December 18 and Carbonell sent the e-mail on December 19, the very next day. 4. Carbonell writes "Since there has been uncertainty about the state of our President's health and our Vice-President's willingness and abili= ty to accept nominations of the upcoming Presidential election=85.etc" 5. This clearly indicates that the developments did not take place between 18th and 19th, but the exploration, politicking canvassing and planning must have been going on for weeks if not for months. 6. Algeo has worked with Radha Burnier for over 30 years. The question is: when Algeo was approached by residents/GC members/whomsoever about h= is running for the office, did he have the courtesy of talking to Radha abo= ut it. From all accounts we have seen, apparently that was not the case. 7. The above kind of behaviour is typical among politicians in the USA and no one is surprised because that is the normal way of doing business= in the US political scene. 8. When one sees such a behaviour at the highest levels of Theosophists, what we probably see is only the tip of the iceberg of the personality. What more to come? 9. It is also reported that when Radha read Carbonell's letter at the GC meeting on December 25, Algeo was noticieably silent. Why did not spe= ak up? He is a university professor and is not known to be shy about speaki= ng up. To me, his silence spoke louder than any words. 10. Several days have passed since the Carbonell's letter and other info became available on this list and to this day, neither Algeo or any= of his surrogates have contradicted or corrected any of the facts in the messages on the e-mail lists. So it again speaks volumes. Before the membership around the world casts their ballots, they should loo= k at all available information and make up their mind. Once the election is over, there is no point in crying over spilt milk. mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From MarieMAJ41@aol.com Mon Apr 21 20:36:08 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: MarieMAJ41@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 34879 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2008 03:36:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Apr 2008 03:36:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m24.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.5) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Apr 2008 03:36:05 -0000 X-Received: from MarieMAJ41@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c93.269c20d2 (34991) for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 23:35:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from webmail-md04 (webmail-md04.webmail.aol.com [64.12.170.142]) by cia-db01.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB014-88af480d5d1e45; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 23:35:58 -0400 References: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 23:35:58 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 24.7.215.159 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36162-STANDARD X-Received: from 24.7.215.159 by webmail-md04.sysops.aol.com (64.12.170.142) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 21 Apr 2008 23:35:58 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA72411CEDC5B6-1760-4812@webmail-md04.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.5 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MarieMAJ41@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World TS President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=90655958; y=KGJGG--OQt-SjiQaCfzZO1M2J8L9Ap8QCK-lRmoHZhzX9nkCR44 X-Yahoo-Profile: olgamarie41 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43624 To date, the only ballot I have seen is the one in which Betty Bland, current president of the TS in America is again running unopposed. Why even waste paper, time and effort to vote when there is no one running in opposition? I have always felt this to be self-serving but not productive in any other way. Just needless expense... As to the Rhada Burner vs. John Algeo ballot, I have not seen that yet. Marie -----Original Message----- From: MKR To: theos-L@yahoogroups.com; theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 6:42 pm Subject: Theos-World TS President Election *Has anyone seen/received the Election Ballot? If so, can you post it here or E-MAIL me direct. Thanks* *MKR777@GMAIL.COM* [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Mon Apr 21 20:58:51 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 42263 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2008 03:58:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Apr 2008 03:58:49 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.240) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Apr 2008 03:58:48 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c38so566332ana.75 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:58:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.14.2 with SMTP id 2mr13824862ann.67.1208836725240; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:58:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:58:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 22:58:45 -0500 To: "M K Ramadoss" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.240 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: International President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=fziVAmatfkNngqxFohVnSikIDwwU7ZvZCj7gx6xt8rZZMuBQaUQ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43625 To: Secretaries of All Sections Dear Brother: Let me first introduce myself. I am a member of the Theosophical Society living in the United States. The first inkling of the President Election was when I received a letter from Bro. Betty Bland, President(Secretary) of the US Section in which she tried to get my support for the election of Bro. John Algeo due to her perceived senile condition of Bro. Radha Burnier and the letter was mailed on plain paper with her home address (implying that she is sending it in her personal capacity.) This was surprising since in my long membership over half-century, I have never received such a solicitation from the Section Secretary (President) ever. Some days later, I read a message on the Internet e-mail list theos-L, a message from Pedro Oliveira detailing some of the things that happened in Adyar soon after the call for nominations were mailed out to Secretaries of Sections. The message laid out in detail the canvassing and electioneering that went on during that time even before the sections received the official call for nominations. Obviously these went on behind the back of our President Bro Radha Burnier. I agree with Pedro that the election has been compromised due to what happened. In Political circles, end justifies means, so long as you do not violate any law or rules or regulations and do not get caught. We, those exposed to Theosophical doctrines and principles are expected to live and uphold highest moral and ethical standards and if we do not, then we are starting on a slippery slope and the TS as we know it can be fatally injured. I do not want to see it happen. I have provided below the text of Pedro's message and we would be doing a great favor to all members if the details are provided to them so that when they exercise their votes, the would have full details of the events that took place during the nomination process so that the members can use their judgment in casting the ballot. While rules many not permit this be done with the ballots, it can be done by mailing the details in a separate envelope mailed at the same as the ballots. I am submitting to your kind consideration and appropriate action. Yours fraternally, M K Ramadoss PS: Also listed at the end is the response from Bro. Radha Burnier which you may already have received. Those who are interested in reading the messages exchanged on the Internet, can find them in two mailing lists; THEOS-TALK@YAHOOGROUPS.COM AND THEOS-L@YAHOOGROUPS.COM. Pedro Oliveira's Message Posted on Internet =================================== Below is my personal response to Betty Bland's accusatory email message against Radha Burnier. While Radha's letter was sent, by ordinary mail, in her personal (not official) letterhead, to all General Secretaries in the TS, Bland's email message was sent to the former as well as to dozens of individuals worldwide, including some in Australia and New Zealand. Pedro Oliveira To the Members of the Theosophical Society As in a recent email message the National President of the TS in America, Betty Bland, has accused Mrs Radha Burnier of electioneering, I am compelled to present my testimony of serious facts that happened at Adyar, the International Headquarters of the TS, last December. I hereby take full and personal responsibility for what I state. On 18 December 2007 Mary Anderson, International Secretary, issued, under the Rules of the TS, a call for nominations for the office of President. I understand that a number of such letters were hand delivered immediately to those members of the General Council who were at Adyar at that time. After arriving at Adyar on 14 December 2007 to take part in the International Convention, I soon became aware of rumours that a few resident workers there were planning to write a letter to the members of the General Council, not only about their perception of Mrs Burnier's health but also about who they supported as a candidate in the upcoming election. A long-time resident at Adyar told me personally that one of the members of this group read out to her on the phone the text of the proposed letter. She mentioned to me that she told the person concerned that she did not want to have anything to do with such a letter. On 23 December 2007, while checking my messages at an Internet cafe outside the compound, there was a message forwarded to me by Ricardo Lindemann, National President of the TS in Brazil. It contained a message from Elvira Carbonell, dated 19 December 2007, who was at that time assistant to the International Secretary, Mary Anderson, addressed him as "Dear General Council member, Mr Lindemann". What was rumour had become a reality. I understand that the same letter was sent to many other Council members by two other residents at Adyar. As it can be seen from dates mentioned above, Ms Carbonell's letter was sent by email on the day after the official nomination papers had been sent out by Ms Anderson. As the nomination papers were sent by regular mail to the overwhelming majority of General Council members living overseas, such letter, sent by electronic means, would be likely to reach many of them before the official papers were received by regular mail. Below, I reproduce some passages from Ms Carbonell's letter in italics, followed by a few comments. The full text of her letter is reproduced at the end of this letter. "Since there has been uncertainty about the state of our President's health and our Vice-President's willingness and ability to accept nominations for the upcoming Presidential election, several of us at Adyar feel the need to write to the members of the General Council to share the following information." While at Adyar in December 2007 I had several visits with the President. I found her to be in good spirits, cheerful, energetic, aware that her memory for names was faulty at times, but in good health. This is also the opinion of her doctors. At the opening of the Convention, on 26 December, she read out her Presidential Address for around one and a half hours, standing before the assembled delegates. Dr Duzan Zagar, Organising Secretary for the TS in Slovenia and who is a medical doctor, neurologist and psychiatrist, visited the President during his stay at Adyar in December 2007, saw her recent test results and declared that she was in good health. She had had a stroke in November 2006. Therefore in the light of expert medical advice Ms Carbonell's comments on the President's health at that time were uncalled for, inappropriate and manipulative, for they represented a blatant attempt to unduly influence the opinion and decision-making process of the General Council members. It is important to note that, through his silence, the Vice- President, Dr John Algeo, tacitly approved mention of his intentions in Ms Carbonell's letter and as a result allowed himself to be presented as willing to accept nominations for the office of President even before the great majority of Council members residing overseas would have received their nomination papers! The statement in Ms Carbonell's letter used the authority of the position of Vice- President of the Theosophical Society to unduly, inappropriately and unethically attempt to influence members of the General Council, the governing body of the TS. Her letter, therefore, compromised the nomination process. "We have learned that our Vice-President has been asked if he will accept nominations, and have confirmation from him that although he is not eager to run for President, he will do what seems to be in the best interest of the Society when the time comes, and he will accept nominations. We have also received confirmation from him that he feels Adyar has to remain the international Headquarters of the TS, for both practical and symbolical reasons." The above paragraph presents further clear evidence that the Vice- President, Dr Algeo, not only knew of this action of Ms Carbonell but definitely condoned it. I understand that at the General Council meeting at Adyar, on 25 December 2007, when Ms Carbonell's letter was read out by the President, the Vice-President remained noticeably silent. Ms Cabonell's letter thus presented elements of a political platform for the Vice-President as a candidate in the Presidential election when the great majority of the General Council members would not have received their nomination papers. Such action violates the universal principle of free and fair elections which is enshrined on the Rules of the TS. In the light of the above considerations Mrs Radha Burnier, about whom some presumptions were made in Ms Carbonell's letter to some General Council members, of necessity, as is her right, has had to state her position and her intentions in relation to the forthcoming election for international President. Yours sincerely, Pedro Oliveira Sydney, Australia (Below is the letter of Elvira Carbonell to Ricardo Lindemann, National President of the TS in Brazil and General Council member of the Society, received on 19 December 2007 by email.) Dear General Council member, Mr Lindemann: Since there has been uncertainty about the state of our President's health and our Vice-President's willingness and ability to accept nominations for the upcoming Presidential election, several of us at Adyar feel the need to write to members of the General Council to share the following information. Many of us at Adyar are concerned that our President will be putting an unnecessary burden on herself and her prospects for continued recovery if she runs for another term. Because of our deep regard for her and the Society, we would like to see her live as long as possible as a wise counsel and guide to whoever gets elected as the next President of the Theosophical Society. We have learned that our Vice-President has been asked if he will accept nominations, and have confirmation from him that although he is not eager to run for President, he will do what seems to be in the best interest of the Society when the time comes, and he will accept nominations. We have also received confirmation from him that he feels Adyar has to remain the international Headquarters of the TS, for both practical and symbolical reasons. We hope that others who are qualified and have the best interest of the Society at heart will make themselves available as nominees in a non-adversarial spirit, as having several candidates on the ballot will ensure a wider choice of experience and abilities, which can only benefit our Society. Fraternally yours, Ms Elvira Carbonell Theosophical Society, Adyar, India ========================= Bro. Radha Burnier's Response Dear Colleague, This is to inform you that I have received 14 nominations from General Secretaries etc, who represent a totality of 17,037 votes. Dr John Algeo has received 21 nominations, representing a totality of 10,685 votes. I think we need younger people to be in charge of the Society's work and that they have to stay in Adyar. Dr. Algeo who is around 78, does not like the climate here, nor can he leave the United States for more than a short time, in view of his wife's condition. I believe that if elected he intends to work largely from America through e-mail and video conversations. It is necessary to have the right candidates for the officers of the Theosophical Society. I believe that Mrs Linda Oliveira and her husband, and some members from Britain , etc., will be coming to Adyar shortly, to stay and work here. You know very well that since Col. H.S. Olcott, all Presidents have lived at Adyar, and this was not merely a matter of their convenience. Adyar has been considered as a Spiritual Centre. From here the work of the Society can best send forth the power and blessing of the Elder Brethren. Such programmes as the International Convention and the School of the Wisdom, which are features of Adyar attract many members from around the world. Many of these members are able to return to their lodges with a greater understanding of the purpose of the Society and the work of the Founders. In my view it would not be a good thing to have somebody live in the United States and run Adyar by proxy. Adyar should be maintained as a living Headquarters for reasons which are obvious to those who know the history of the Society. Yours fraternally, Radha Burnier ========================= [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Mon Apr 21 21:07:42 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 70672 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2008 04:07:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Apr 2008 04:07:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.248) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Apr 2008 04:07:41 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c14so587430anc.13 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:07:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.46.10 with SMTP id t10mr13785905ant.156.1208837260655; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:07:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:07:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 23:07:40 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8CA72411CEDC5B6-1760-4812@webmail-md04.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8CA72411CEDC5B6-1760-4812@webmail-md04.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.248 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World TS President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=AxPkRuIuj2mUfMsUBX2MW2hoeFTZHI0B021tlF5qiQEnWK-VVXo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43626 Thanks. Probably it has not yet been mailed out in the USA. Let us wait and see if we get any response from any other country. I am told that the ballot will list the names of those who signed up to sponsor the candidate. This is a technique that is used in the US to influence the gullible uninformed voter by getting them to vote by associating well known names. mkr On 4/21/08, MarieMAJ41@aol.com wrote: > > > To date, the only ballot I have seen is the one in which Betty Bland, > current president of the TS in America is again running unopposed. Why even > waste paper, time and effort to vote when there is no one running in > opposition? I have always felt this to be self-serving but not productive in > any other way. Just needless expense... > > As to the Rhada Burner vs. John Algeo ballot, I have not seen that yet. > > Marie > > -----Original Message----- > From: MKR > > To: theos-L@yahoogroups.com ; > theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 6:42 pm > Subject: Theos-World TS President Election > > *Has anyone seen/received the Election Ballot? If so, can you post it here > or E-MAIL me direct. > > Thanks* > > *MKR777@GMAIL.COM <%2AMKR777%40GMAIL.COM>* > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Mvandertak@yahoo.com Tue Apr 22 01:29:46 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Mvandertak@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 8475 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2008 08:29:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Apr 2008 08:29:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n42a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.136) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Apr 2008 08:29:43 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n42.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Apr 2008 08:29:43 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Apr 2008 08:29:43 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Apr 2008 08:29:43 -0000 Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 08:29:43 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.168.136 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 209.73.164.226 From: "Martin" Subject: Theos-World Re: Music, the language of the Soul X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=38276385; y=JXXjB5B2aAGtnLDxoMnLY41vNc7QJth2ry9HGWYH7toxjECxvA X-Yahoo-Profile: mvandertak X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43627 Well here is the vegetable orchestra for a start: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DhpfYt7vRHuY Brotherhood =3D=20 having a good time, play some music, ...and eat the instruments after! --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Martin" wrote: > >=20 > It's not ready as of yet but to get an idea for now, check out the=20 > DVD Gypsy Caravan: trailer here: > http://www.a-film.nl/trailer.php?id=3D1560 > This movie showed me more brotherhood in 2 hours, than I have=20 shared=20 > the last 30 years with theosophists... >=20 >=20 > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Antonio/Tony None=20 > wrote: > > > > Yes, absoloutly. > >=20 > > Martin wrote: Yes will=20 > link you to it when its readx. My friend is > > jewish btw and he respects the work of the others. So > > only if they agree I will give it free...:-) > >=20=20 > > --- Antonio/Tony None > > wrote: > >=20=20 > > > Any chance of a listen? I am working with a lot of > > > arabic sounds at the minute. Would be interesting to > > > hear what its all about! > > >=20 > > > Cheers. > > >=20 > > > Martin wrote: = =20 > > > I just got this email from a friend, > > > which proves to me, music has no=20 > > > prejudice :-) > > >=20=20 > > > Hello friends, > > >=20=20=20 > > > As you know I live in Israel, the 2 weeks I'm > > > Mixing here (here=20 > > > means at my studio) > > > a new disk for an Arab Palestinian, a great guy,=20 > > > and a very good=20 > > > musician !! > > > Most of the music was recorded in Amman (Jordan)=20 > > > some of the=20 > > > musician playing there > > > were brought specaially from Egyps (as they are > > > playing authentic=20 > > > rare arab instruments) > > > some tracks recorded in Nazareth, no one of the > > > musicians (exept of=20 > > > the guy I'm working with) > > > knows a thing about the other musicians - and of > > > caurse how the music=20 > > > will come out - as each Musician was playing only > > > with 1 instrument=20 > > > prerecorded as a guide line.. > > > I must say it's very special, all the > > > situation,from all=20 > > > aspects..... and so is the music !!!! > > >=20=20 > > >=20=20 > > >=20=20=20=20=20=20 > > > = =20 > > >=20 > > >=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 > > > --------------------------------- > > > Yahoo! for Good helps you make a difference > > >=20 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > removed] > > >=20 > > >=20 > >=20=20 > > __________________________________________________________ > > No Cost - Get a month of Blockbuster Total Access now. Sweet=20 deal=20 > for Yahoo! users and friends.=20 > > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text1.com > >=20=20 > >=20=20=20=20=20=20 > > = =20 > >=20 > >=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 > > --------------------------------- > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail. > > A Smarter Inbox. > >=20 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Apr 22 05:31:08 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 35849 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2008 12:31:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Apr 2008 12:31:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.243) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Apr 2008 12:31:05 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b2so595849ana.88 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 05:31:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.101.68.19 with SMTP id v19mr256920ank.75.1208867464928; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 05:31:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 05:31:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 07:31:04 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.243 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS Election -- Radha Burnier's Health Update - News Flash X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=Trdm_RwNjMutLgjIugtrnJuLtOeI65KYZtns603HMgR92LYEyMI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43628 Here is a great news to all. I just learnt that physicians who have examined Radha Burnier have declared her physically and mentally fit, contrary to what we are all led to believe due to electioneeing that has been going on. I will try to provide more specific info soon. Keep tuned in. mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Mvandertak@yahoo.com Tue Apr 22 06:54:27 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mvandertak@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 41204 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2008 13:54:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Apr 2008 13:54:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52601.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.204) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Apr 2008 13:54:23 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 59024 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Apr 2008 13:54:19 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: kCf0xvgVM1mQf3iwY.HPWFhXFXlO90KZgDFatZHNiHU1CjnrxGXkRijm73VtdHlpgbwj5R73gyBzaqVfT_33JRVK2zyw9DNQq1Ur02y4VtC9z6gvj5NR9Q-- X-Received: from [82.217.39.103] by web52601.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 06:54:19 PDT Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 06:54:19 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <286190.58966.qm@web52601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.204 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Martin Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Election -- Radha Burnier's Health Update - News Flash X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=38276385; y=NzhbAANjBaHnXk6TMsZQBtIUlFdhiJxmWC1Pbf5Pty0EiQzMkw X-Yahoo-Profile: mvandertak X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43629 Once upon a time there were 3 man ill. One by one went to a physician. The first one said: ' I was told I have 3 more months to live', so he took all his money from the bank, gave it to his children and after 3 months passed away. The second one no different, he took all his money, went to Paris, had a good time and after 3 months passed. The third one is still around for he went to a different doctor :-) --- MKR wrote: > Here is a great news to all. > > I just learnt that physicians who have examined > Radha Burnier have declared > her physically and mentally fit, contrary to what we > are all led to believe > due to electioneeing that has been going on. > > I will try to provide more specific info soon. > > Keep tuned in. > > > mkr > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From Drpsionic@aol.com Tue Apr 22 08:08:17 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 59218 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2008 15:08:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Apr 2008 15:08:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m25.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.6) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Apr 2008 15:08:14 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d4f.258958d7 (34916) for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:08:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from webmail-dd08 (webmail-dd08.webmail.aol.com [205.188.104.8]) by cia-da03.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA031-8864480dff5614d; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:08:06 -0400 References: <8CA72411CEDC5B6-1760-4812@webmail-md04.sysops.aol.com> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:08:07 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.229.193.240 In-Reply-To: <8CA72411CEDC5B6-1760-4812@webmail-md04.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36162-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.229.193.240 by webmail-dd08.sysops.aol.com (205.188.104.8) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:08:07 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA72A1CE012C52-1674-482@webmail-dd08.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.6 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World TS President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=_8PpyFm7kaEEZe0tBGKEXjkuFl1Np0WNFVRKam3riPUQ9oK3wQ X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43630 Neither have I.? I think it got lost in the pile of prunes at Krotona. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: MarieMAJ41@aol.com To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 10:35 pm Subject: Re: Theos-World TS President Election To date, the only ballot I have seen is the one in which Betty Bland, current president of the TS in America is again running unopposed. Why even waste paper, time and effort to vote when there is no one running in opposition? I have always felt this to be self-serving but not productive in any other way. Just needless expense... As to the Rhada Burner vs. John Algeo ballot, I have not seen that yet. Marie -----Original Message----- From: MKR To: theos-L@yahoogroups.com; theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 6:42 pm Subject: Theos-World TS President Election *Has anyone seen/received the Election Ballot? If so, can you post it here or E-MAIL me direct. Thanks* *MKR777@GMAIL.COM* [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Tue Apr 22 08:12:00 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 11301 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2008 15:11:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Apr 2008 15:11:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m22.mail.aol.com) (64.12.137.3) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Apr 2008 15:11:58 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c8d.1f5bc846 (37540) for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:10:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from webmail-dd08 (webmail-dd08.webmail.aol.com [205.188.104.8]) by cia-mb02.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMB021-92a4480dffdbc3; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:10:19 -0400 References: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:10:19 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.229.193.240 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36162-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.229.193.240 by webmail-dd08.sysops.aol.com (205.188.104.8) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:10:19 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA72A21D292572-1674-4B6@webmail-dd08.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Election -- Radha Burnier's Health Update - News Flash X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=OTANlqgaIRtNGobsUOdHsVCdjyMeuZ_yy9hfpHHm9R4ex1ag3w X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43631 There was some question as to her mental fitness 30 years ago.?:) Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: MKR To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; theos-L@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 7:31 am Subject: Theos-World TS Election -- Radha Burnier's Health Update - News Flash Here is a great news to all. I just learnt that physicians who have examined Radha Burnier have declared her physically and mentally fit, contrary to what we are all led to believe due to electioneeing that has been going on. I will try to provide more specific info soon. Keep tuned in. mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Apr 22 09:04:59 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 18275 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2008 16:04:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Apr 2008 16:04:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wr-out-0506.google.com) (64.233.184.232) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Apr 2008 16:04:57 -0000 X-Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 60so1321783wri.6 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:04:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.239.11 with SMTP id m11mr581829anh.158.1208880296313; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:04:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:04:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:04:56 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 64.233.184.232 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS President Radha Burnier's Health -- Doctors' Certificates X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=784EIIzBT14SGJP6eOV4Bw6XIyMqQuAoqt2sxCPAJSs8USSeb0s Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43632 All of us have heard about the unfounded allegations of the poor physical and mental health of our President Radha Burnier and why Algeo volunteered to stand for election. A kind soul in the cyberspace, sent me certificates from two medical doctors who have examined Radha Burnier recently and who testify to the good health of Radha Burnier. One of them is her private physician and the other the Principal of a Medical College. I am providing them below. The certification of the doctors should allay the fears of any member about the health condition of our President. I understand that many members around the world have already seen them. Also, it is my hope that the Section Secretaries do distribute them to their members, since Justice and Fairness, which theosophists value very much, requires factual information be made available to their membership before they make up their minds and cast their votes. M K Ramadoss San Antonio, Texas, USA ----XXX--- To S Harihara Raghavan General Manager The Theosophical Society Adyar, Chennai 600 020 17 April 2008 Sir, I am the personal physician for Mrs Radha Burnier, who has authorized me to furnish you with a medical certificate. As a senior physician, I have been looking after Mrs Burnier for more than ten years. Mrs Radha Burnier had a "TRANSIENT ISCHEMIC ATTACK" (TIA) on 11 November 2006. She recovered quickly and completely after taking a period of rest, and also prescribed medication. She is now doing extremely well, and has no health problems. Both her physical activity and mental alertness are excellent, and I have permitted her to drive her car, and she is driving regularly. In my opinion she is fit to undertake any responsibility involving strenuous physical and mental activity, and undertake travel both within India and overseas. I am sure this will clarify the doubts of some members of the Theosophical Society about her current state of health, and this can be communicated to them. Yours Sincerely, (Dr. P Thirumalai) ---xxx--- From: "Raveendran Mundakkal Ayyappankutty* To: Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 9:51 AM Subject: To the Attention of Harihararaghavan- Gen. Manager TS- Health of President TS Dr. M. A. Raveendran Professor and Head Department of Medicine Medical Superintendent Government Medical College, Thrissur This is to testify that I have examined Dr (Mrs).Radha Burnier on 11th and 12th of April 2008 in Adyar. I had reviewed her medical problems and found that she has recovered from a mild stroke and that there is no need for any undue concern regarding her health. At present she is having no motor weakness; her speech and higher functions are normal; She has no problems related to attention or decision making in goal-oriented problems. She is attending her office and is able to exercise her work as the president of Theosophical society. Considering her age and after the present medical evaluation I can very confidently assure that there is absolutely no need to worry about her health. It is very sad to hear rumors regarding her health, which does not pertain to facts. I hereby testify that Dr. (Mrs) Radha Burnier enjoys good health and any scandals contrary to the same is not in accordance with facts. (Dr M. A. Raveendran) 16-04-08 ===xxx=== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Apr 22 09:48:01 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 97044 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2008 16:47:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Apr 2008 16:47:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.246) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Apr 2008 16:47:58 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c5so612692anc.69 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:47:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.37.20 with SMTP id k20mr769405ank.5.1208882875141; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:47:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:47:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:47:55 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.246 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: President Burnier's Health - What has changed? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=TN5giWOkNHxB3u1kOBNQOUhYRxfBTHwKNMOLYTj-ZEwgz5JcwN0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43633 I recently came across a very interesting piece of information. I understand that in February 2007, Algeo wrote to Secretaries and other members around the world in which he states: "As you have doubtless heard, the President had a light stroke in November. It did not affect her body or her mind except for a slight and temporary memory loss with respect to names. Her doctor predicts a full recovery, which will take several months. At present she is progressing nicely and doing very well. She attended all the major meetings during Convention, although she let others do some of the speaking and presiding that she normally does. She has taken a short time off (which she well deserves) to recuperate, free from the demands on her at headquarters, but she is now back at Adyar and attending to business=85.. I had extensive discussions wi= th her about Theosophical business around the world, and she is on top of all the facts and her judgment is as sharp as ever. The outlook is very favorable for a full recovery." So obviously, a year ago she was in pretty good health. Based on the recent certification by two doctors, her health is good now. What has changed during this period? What were the health problems used as an excuse at the time when Presidential nominations were in process? In a previous message it was stated that when Carbonell's email was read to the General Council, Algeo was noticeably silent. One wonders why? Also one wonders if the whole issue of nomination was developing in the background over a period of several months and it would be interesting to learn what actual role Algeo played directly or indirectly. My hope is either him or one of his surrogates would enlighten all of us. Truth will Triumph as they saying goes. Ramadoss PS: If anyone reading the messages here have any information relating to th= e election issue, please post them or e-mail me direct. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Apr 22 12:47:40 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 47883 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2008 19:47:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Apr 2008 19:47:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wx-out-0506.google.com) (66.249.82.224) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Apr 2008 19:47:38 -0000 X-Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s7so1976263wxc.24 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 12:47:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.7.1 with SMTP id 1mr1093279ang.4.1208893657450; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 12:47:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 12:47:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:47:37 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Originating-IP: 66.249.82.224 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Musings on TS Presidential Elections X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=yw0r6mW56glNAaxg8uDzmk8dPGd966944jqGoxNNx1bA-Igvjqg X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43634 Here is a message I sent to a member from another continent who contacted me relating to the elections. I thought it might be of some interest to some. mkr ============================== Thanks. I have been quite busy with several messages on theos-talk and you may have seen them. The most interesting is the reports from two doctors who have examined her (Radha) physical and mental condition and have declared her fit. It looks to me that the whole nomination issue seems to have been in the works for the past several months and we do not know what are the other considerations than health that was key. Many times what we see is only a partial manifestation of something more deep; I hope it is not something which is against Brotherhood principle itself. Why I say this is because many times people do wrong things but with good motives of helping but end up harming the cause. We will have to see how the matter develops. If this had happened 15 years ago, everyone would have believed what the leaders fed to the obedient followers and that would have ended the issue. Today we should thank Internet which allows people to exachange information around the world instanteneously. As the news media here call, the velocity of news has increased. One thing that I am unable to understand is why the International HQ did not collect the e-mail addresses of members all over world and on a monthly basis a news letter could have been sent to all, thus keeping in touch with membership. If this had been done, when the electioneering started, it would have been very easy to keep the membership informed with accurate factual information so that they are not misled with inaccurate information to influence the members to vote one way or the other. Let us all wait and hope that Truth will Triumph in the end. Ramadoss From Drpsionic@aol.com Tue Apr 22 14:55:39 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 59740 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2008 21:55:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Apr 2008 21:55:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m22.mail.aol.com) (64.12.137.3) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Apr 2008 21:55:32 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c9f.2a1da70c (37530) for ; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:55:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from webmail-mf09 (webmail-mf09.webmail.aol.com [64.12.88.222]) by cia-mb01.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMB013-929a480e5ebf16d; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:55:11 -0400 References: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:55:11 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.229.193.240 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36162-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.229.193.240 by webmail-mf09.sysops.aol.com (64.12.88.222) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:55:11 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA72DAAB4D3D03-A5C-2311@webmail-mf09.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Musings on TS Presidential Elections X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=Xu0-zuGFmSwUeWkPyVTh9UJuZ7yP2aNfRKCrm9DN7dcjF9tAOg X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43635 I think if electioneering were a standard practice in the TS, we could enjoy this more.? I'm inclined to think that they are both crazy for wanting the job, but I've always felt that anyone who wants that job is.? The truth is that from a personal point of view, I've always found John to be more enjoyable to listen to than Radha, but then I know him a lot better.? I can certainly do a much better imitation of his speaking than I could ever do of Rahda's dancing, for which the gods are no doubt grateful. But that of course has nothing serious to do with any of this which is just as well because try as I might, I just can't take the matter very seriously.? I mean think about it.? The presidents of the TS have included Col. Olcott, a beloved old man whose beard tended to catch fire on embarrassing occasions and has a street in Chicago named for him (he really does!), Mrs. Besant, who was crazy as a june bug, George Arundale, who never met a Nazi that he did not like and so on.? It is not a position noted for the wisdom of those who hold it. The TS is much bigger than those who hold office in it, which is probably why it is still around. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: MKR To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; theos-L@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 2:47 pm Subject: Theos-World Musings on TS Presidential Elections Here is a message I sent to a member from another continent who contacted me relating to the elections. I thought it might be of some interest to some. mkr ============================== Thanks. I have been quite busy with several messages on theos-talk and you may have seen them. The most interesting is the reports from two doctors who have examined her (Radha) physical and mental condition and have declared her fit. It looks to me that the whole nomination issue seems to have been in the works for the past several months and we do not know what are the other considerations than health that was key. Many times what we see is only a partial manifestation of something more deep; I hope it is not something which is against Brotherhood principle itself. Why I say this is because many times people do wrong things but with good motives of helping but end up harming the cause. We will have to see how the matter develops. If this had happened 15 years ago, everyone would have believed what the leaders fed to the obedient followers and that would have ended the issue. Today we should thank Internet which allows people to exachange information around the world instanteneously. As the news media here call, the velocity of news has increased. One thing that I am unable to understand is why the International HQ did not collect the e-mail addresses of members all over world and on a monthly basis a news letter could have been sent to all, thus keeping in touch with membership. If this had been done, when the electioneering started, it would have been very easy to keep the membership informed with accurate factual information so that they are not misled with inaccurate information to influence the members to vote one way or the other. Let us all wait and hope that Truth will Triumph in the end. Ramadoss [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Tue Apr 22 17:14:26 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 82705 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2008 00:14:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Apr 2008 00:14:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52104.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.107) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Apr 2008 00:14:24 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 78962 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Apr 2008 00:14:23 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: B2L9PfAVM1ndwV4AP99i07YBsvAXTYJJ_XekciJKU6aJOQ3e5mhiCIu6juCLnsdQqw-- X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52104.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:14:23 PDT Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:14:23 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <512719.76539.qm@web52104.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.107 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Election -- Radha Burnier's Health Update - News Flash X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=2RD6-fdBfARuUdaHqbq-aHAZnoH1ysub3lq0rKsqJqb7l2b-3g X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43636 I don't want to be facitious, but they kept the last pope going for years past his use by date. Cass MKR wrote: Here is a great news to all. I just learnt that physicians who have examined Radha Burnier have declared her physically and mentally fit, contrary to what we are all led to believe due to electioneeing that has been going on. I will try to provide more specific info soon. Keep tuned in. mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Tue Apr 22 22:17:54 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 9969 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2008 05:17:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Apr 2008 05:17:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m24.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.5) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Apr 2008 05:17:52 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.cc0.30ca3d70 (37565) for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2008 01:17:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from webmail-de05 (webmail-de05.webmail.aol.com [205.188.104.26]) by cia-mb04.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMB042-92bd480ec67b10d; Wed, 23 Apr 2008 01:17:47 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 01:17:47 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.229.193.240 In-Reply-To: <512719.76539.qm@web52104.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36162-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.229.193.240 by webmail-de05.sysops.aol.com (205.188.104.26) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 23 Apr 2008 01:17:47 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA73188069CA77-954-2B45@webmail-de05.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.5 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Election -- Radha Burnier's Health Update - News Flash X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=eRl_izf4Vu_kia35ywJ3GCYvlyUC97BpPgcfvgp8CeOxwZjp-A X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43637 Very true.? And now they will make him a saint if he can get the miracles right and stop making cripples blind. I just hope that if Radha loses she does not take her revenge by going back to acting.? She was horrible! Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 7:14 pm Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Election -- Radha Burnier's Health Update - News Flash I don't want to be facitious, but they kept the last pope going for years past his use by date. Cass MKR wrote: Here is a great news to all. I just learnt that physicians who have examined Radha Burnier have declared her physically and mentally fit, contrary to what we are all led to believe due to electioneeing that has been going on. I will try to provide more specific info soon. Keep tuned in. mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Wed Apr 23 14:10:18 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 19124 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2008 21:10:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Apr 2008 21:10:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wx-out-0506.google.com) (66.249.82.228) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Apr 2008 21:10:15 -0000 X-Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i29so2599302wxd.7 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:10:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.92.9 with SMTP id p9mr3662821anb.124.1208985015178; Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:10:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:10:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:10:15 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 66.249.82.228 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: It is now Algeo's Turn to Explain X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=UXQKrGqtSFHUWeM9VdaaY2h1EGis77W8CjA35045Y0d7V8j6LVI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43638 Here is a letter Bro Pedro wrote Algeo. Algeo and his surrogates have been silent so far, perhaps the questions are going to go away. Now is the time for him to come out like a man and give his side of the story. It is necessary because of the damage it has already done to the election process and to the organization. How deep and long lasting the repercussions are going to be, no one can tell. This issues are not going to go away any time soon especially in today's Internet world where old techniques of organizational control of dissemination of information to members no longer works. Let us wait and see. Ramadoss ======================== Dear John, As is well known, Radha nominated you for the position of Vice-President of the TS three times: in 2001, 2004 and 2007. Nominating the same person three times for such an important position implies a great deal of trust in the person thus nominated. Even after suffering a stroke in November 2006, and having recovered from it, she still chose to nominate you as the Vice-President of the Society. I was very relieved, and reassured, when I received the MESSAGE FROM THE VICE-PRESIDENT, which you kindly sent, electronically, on 24 February 2007, to all General Secretaries, Presidential Representatives, Organising Secretaries plus a number of individual members around the world. This information was important not only because it came from our Vice-President but also because you had met with and talked to Radha at Adyar a little more than a month after her stroke. I reproduce the relevant part of your message: "As you have doubtless heard, the President had a light stroke in November. It did not affect her body or her mind except for a slight and temporary memory loss with respect to names. Her doctor predicts a full recovery, which will take several months. At present she is progressing nicely and doing very well. She attended all the major meetings during Convention, although she let others do some of the speaking and presiding that she normally does. She has taken a short time off (which she well deserves) to recuperate, free from the demands on her at headquarters, but she is now back at Adyar and attending to business. While I was at Adyar in December and January, I had extensive discussions with her about Theosophical business around the world, and she is on top of all the facts and her judgment is as sharp as ever. The outlook is very favorable for a full recovery. The Adyar staff responded in exemplary fashion during convention, and all went very well indeed." When I arrived at Adyar, last December, something had changed for I soon became aware that some workers there were preparing to send out a letter to the members of the General Council, both about Radha's health as well as informing them that you had agreed to accept nominations for the office of President. Later on I was able to obtain a copy of Elvira Carbonell's letter to a General Council member. The letter, dated 19 December 2007, clearly indicates that you had accepted to be a candidate even before the official nomination papers had reached the great majority of General Council members residing overseas. As you know, I did protest at Elvira's letter in my own letter to the General Council, saying that it "is a clear attempt to interfere with the constitutional election for President of the TS." After the nomination phase was over, signs of a wider and active campaign in your favour started to appear. On 29 March 2008, Mme. Maxence Ondet, Secretary to the French TS Board, sent out a letter to all TS members in France . She says, among other things, that Radha, after the stroke, was "unable to speak for at least a month and [it] deprived her of a large part of her memory. Her recovery was slow and incomplete, especially as far as short term memory and recall of names are concerned. In conversation, she no longer understands anything but short and simple sentences." If we compare Mme. Ondet's statements to your abovementioned report about Radha's condition the discrepancies in the French letter become self-evident. Mme. Ondet went on to say that those present "at the Convention at Adyar in December 2007 noticed with sadness and embarrassment the great difficulty with which she delivered her principal Convention address, an address that was wandering and repetitive, and showed a weakened mind or brain damage." The same letter states that "she no longer writes speeches; someone does them for her. Since the stroke, the editorials of the international magazine 'The Adyar Theosophist' are no longer written by her." While at Adyar, last December, I visited Radha almost everyday for a period of almost eighteen days and can therefore attest that the above description of her condition is utterly false. I also saw proofs of an upcoming issue of The Theosophist on the coffee table in her living room. She reads every article that is submitted for publication. As a matter of fact, the table was full of theosophical magazines and books, the same way it was when I used to visit her when I worked at Adyar more than twelve years ago. Although you, Mary Anderson and Surendra Narayan wrote the "On the Watch-Tower" notes in The Theosophist for the first few months this year, Radha resumed writing them in May and we can again see her own style in the magazine which she edits. The closing paragraph of Mme. Ondet's letter is even more revealing (italics mine): "For sure, we loved Radha. We probably still do. And this has perhaps nothing to do with her mental state. Even so, we think that the destiny of the Theosophical Society would be even more shaken if Radha were to take on a fifth term of office. We therefore invite you to reflect seriously before the forthcoming election which will be crucial for the future direction of the Theosophical Society. Most fraternally," What is there of fraternal in this most unkind, biased and untruthful communication? What has shocked, and continues to shock, many of us is that the President of the Theosophical Society is the subject of an immoral and utterly unbrotherly attack by the executive body of a National Society, and yet members world wide have not heard a word from their Vice-President about it. Your continued silence raises many questions: do you object to the immoral attacks at the President which distort, disfigure and blatantly lie about her real condition which you saw at Adyar soon after the stroke? Do you consider appropriate, as our Vice-President, for the executive body of a National Society to issue such a letter as Mme. Ondet's to all its members on the eve of their voting in the international election? Then we saw Betty Bland's letter of 11 April 2008 sent to thousands of members of the American Section. In it she says: "Radha seems to be recovering physically from the stroke she suffered over a year ago, but, given her age, she stills has periods of low energy and her memory is inconsistent. While I have a deep respect for the wonderful service she has given to the Society and feel that she can continue to be useful as a wise elder, it is for the good of the whole that the leadership pass smoothly to John Algeo, who currently serves as the international Vice-president." She concludes her letter by encouraging members to see your personal website and adds: "I hope you seriously consider this information when casting your vote." In an election with only two candidates, does not Betty's letter come across as visible electioneering in your favour? Has she the right to condition or influence the choice of the American members in an election? When some of your supporters say that you are not campaigning, is not Betty's letter an active and widespread campaign on your behalf that hurts the freedom and fairness of the most important election in the TS? I am aware of Radha's letter to the General Secretaries, which was sent out by ordinary mail. She had the right of reply after being misrepresented and placed into disadvantage by Elvira's letter which was sent, by email, a day after the official nomination papers were issued by the International Secretary, by ordinary mail. Given your continued silence I have no reasons to believe that you will address the questions I have asked you in this letter. But as a concerned member I needed to tell you, personally, that the actions of your supporters have cast a thick cloud over the electoral process as they have violated cherished and time-honoured principles of our Society. Those of us who have followed your serialized studies in The Voice of the Silence, which are being published in The Theosophist, cannot help but remember one of the poignant verses in that great book: "Sow kindly acts and thou shalt reap their fruition. Inaction in a deed of mercy becomes action in a deadly sin. Thus saith the Sage." (II, 135) Radha, as a legitimate successor of Col. Olcott in the office of President, deserves much more respect and courtesy than what your supporters have dispensed to her in this election. The Theosophical Society is now poorer because of their actions which have desecrated the institution of the Presidency and what it stands for. I just could not remain silent. With sincere sadness, [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From raquel_rpj@yahoo.es Wed Apr 23 14:15:17 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: raquel_rpj@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 93269 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2008 21:15:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Apr 2008 21:15:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web26514.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.177.61) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Apr 2008 21:15:16 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 48834 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Apr 2008 21:15:15 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: bq3hLbgVM1kXvBxGk4OjZwFxOHdELsQAwIXlWjh8YxK0CPPJixAXaKK1HrYA6TMZsw-- X-Received: from [77.208.90.196] by web26514.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 23 Apr 2008 23:15:15 CEST Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 23:15:15 +0200 (CEST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <170734.48122.qm@web26514.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 217.146.177.61 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Raquel=20Rodr=EDguez?= Subject: RE: Theos-World Re: Music, the language of the Soul X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=319886574; y=DXyo6Y-YuTPQkRgpBzLtgtLavj54eFChwe5lZBLgem0cJH06FA X-Yahoo-Profile: raquel_rpj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43639 Thank you Martin for the link. I hope you also enjoy this: 1 Giant Leap http://www.whataboutme.tv/ =20=20 Martin escribi=F3: Well here is the vegetable orchestra for a start: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DhpfYt7vRHuY Brotherhood =3D=20 having a good time, play some music, ...and eat the instruments after! --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Martin" wrote: > >=20 > It's not ready as of yet but to get an idea for now, check out the=20 > DVD Gypsy Caravan: trailer here: > http://www.a-film.nl/trailer.php?id=3D1560 > This movie showed me more brotherhood in 2 hours, than I have=20 shared=20 > the last 30 years with theosophists... >=20 >=20 > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Antonio/Tony None=20 > wrote: > > > > Yes, absoloutly. > >=20 > > Martin wrote: Yes will=20 > link you to it when its readx. My friend is > > jewish btw and he respects the work of the others. So > > only if they agree I will give it free...:-) > >=20 > > --- Antonio/Tony None > > wrote: > >=20 > > > Any chance of a listen? I am working with a lot of > > > arabic sounds at the minute. Would be interesting to > > > hear what its all about! > > >=20 > > > Cheers. > > >=20 > > > Martin wrote:=20 > > > I just got this email from a friend, > > > which proves to me, music has no=20 > > > prejudice :-) > > >=20 > > > Hello friends, > > >=20 > > > As you know I live in Israel, the 2 weeks I'm > > > Mixing here (here=20 > > > means at my studio) > > > a new disk for an Arab Palestinian, a great guy,=20 > > > and a very good=20 > > > musician !! > > > Most of the music was recorded in Amman (Jordan)=20 > > > some of the=20 > > > musician playing there > > > were brought specaially from Egyps (as they are > > > playing authentic=20 > > > rare arab instruments) > > > some tracks recorded in Nazareth, no one of the > > > musicians (exept of=20 > > > the guy I'm working with) > > > knows a thing about the other musicians - and of > > > caurse how the music=20 > > > will come out - as each Musician was playing only > > > with 1 instrument=20 > > > prerecorded as a guide line.. > > > I must say it's very special, all the > > > situation,from all=20 > > > aspects..... and so is the music !!!! > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > --------------------------------- > > > Yahoo! for Good helps you make a difference > > >=20 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > removed] > > >=20 > > >=20 > >=20 > > __________________________________________________________ > > No Cost - Get a month of Blockbuster Total Access now. Sweet=20 deal=20 > for Yahoo! users and friends.=20 > > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text1.com > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > --------------------------------- > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail. > > A Smarter Inbox. > >=20 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > = =20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 --------------------------------- Enviado desde Correo Yahoo! La bandeja de entrada m=E1s inteligente. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Mvandertak@yahoo.com Wed Apr 23 15:37:29 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mvandertak@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 42070 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2008 22:37:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Apr 2008 22:37:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52612.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.215) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Apr 2008 22:37:26 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 99138 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Apr 2008 22:37:25 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: hyOUgtIVM1mGJ0xchZ_TVHH2gTcN5JHDdDCXg3mm1ULxBfF4HTaDDURme0thF2KPNEsuOPdje9cNuv1alo1aNi_xwvUZfDQ97LcqMNhNIrgaYbBAVXZI8g-- X-Received: from [82.217.39.103] by web52612.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 23 Apr 2008 15:37:25 PDT Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 15:37:25 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <170734.48122.qm@web26514.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <718774.98993.qm@web52612.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.215 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Martin Subject: RE: Theos-World Re: Music, the language of the Soul X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=38276385; y=J_vV92SZc1VQGroPTNEI8eGXUxrMz4jA1e-WKEeHToqNyQbGXg X-Yahoo-Profile: mvandertak X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43640 Nice one Raquel! This what Theosophy should be about, mu till you get sic of it :-) What's the need for knowledge, Akasha is full of it, better fill the head with Akasha instead of books...and then concentrate on music, its the universal language both dis- and harmonic. That's what Nature is about isn't it? Harmony! Balance! The middle way between extremes not the razorblade...unless you want to become a buddha in 5 minutes. --- Raquel Rodríguez wrote: > Thank you Martin for the link. I hope you also enjoy > this: > 1 Giant Leap > http://www.whataboutme.tv/ > > Martin escribió: > Well here is the vegetable orchestra for a > start: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpfYt7vRHuY > > Brotherhood = > having a good time, > play some music, > ...and eat the instruments after! > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Martin" > wrote: > > > > > > It's not ready as of yet but to get an idea for > now, check out the > > DVD Gypsy Caravan: trailer here: > > http://www.a-film.nl/trailer.php?id=1560 > > This movie showed me more brotherhood in 2 hours, > than I have > shared > > the last 30 years with theosophists... > > > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Antonio/Tony > None > > wrote: > > > > > > Yes, absoloutly. > > > > > > Martin wrote: Yes will > > link you to it when its readx. My friend is > > > jewish btw and he respects the work of the > others. So > > > only if they agree I will give it free...:-) > > > > > > --- Antonio/Tony None > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Any chance of a listen? I am working with a > lot of > > > > arabic sounds at the minute. Would be > interesting to > > > > hear what its all about! > > > > > > > > Cheers. > > > > > > > > Martin wrote: > > > > I just got this email from a friend, > > > > which proves to me, music has no > > > > prejudice :-) > > > > > > > > Hello friends, > > > > > > > > As you know I live in Israel, the 2 weeks I'm > > > > Mixing here (here > > > > means at my studio) > > > > a new disk for an Arab Palestinian, a great > guy, > > > > and a very good > > > > musician !! > > > > Most of the music was recorded in Amman > (Jordan) > > > > some of the > > > > musician playing there > > > > were brought specaially from Egyps (as they > are > > > > playing authentic > > > > rare arab instruments) > > > > some tracks recorded in Nazareth, no one of > the > > > > musicians (exept of > > > > the guy I'm working with) > > > > knows a thing about the other musicians - and > of > > > > caurse how the music > > > > will come out - as each Musician was playing > only > > > > with 1 instrument > > > > prerecorded as a guide line.. > > > > I must say it's very special, all the > > > > situation,from all > > > > aspects..... and so is the music !!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > Yahoo! for Good helps you make a difference > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > No Cost - Get a month of Blockbuster Total > Access now. Sweet > deal > > for Yahoo! users and friends. > > > > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text1.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail. > > > A Smarter Inbox. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Enviado desde Correo Yahoo! > La bandeja de entrada más inteligente. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From mkr777@gmail.com Wed Apr 23 18:21:57 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 26572 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2008 01:21:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2008 01:21:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wx-out-0506.google.com) (66.249.82.236) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 2008 01:21:54 -0000 X-Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id h30so3205764wxd.21 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:21:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.4.1 with SMTP id 1mr4163706and.77.1209000114390; Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:21:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:21:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 20:21:54 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 66.249.82.236 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Update on Algeo and TS President Nomination X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=MBOF6jmXhDV6gFLJJt2i20p5cQgNtMvXsXAeBJUcnBDLCAAd38w Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43641 Those who have been following the messages here now have some idea of what went on prior to nominations for International President using the unsubstantiated ruse that Radha Burnier is in bad health physically and mentally. Early this month two examining doctors declared her fully fit both mentally and physically, the truth has come out in spite of various well known theosophical names associating themselves with the false information. None, including Algeo, seems to have talked to Radha Burnier directly asking her about her health before they nominated John Algeo. It appears that the origins of the current election maneuverings seems to have had its origin in 2006 when John Algeo had a hand in changing the International Election procedure to include the names of the individuals who nominate the candidates. It is a well-known technique perfected in the TS elections in the USA to influence the gullible and uninformed membership to vote for those supported by active players and politicians. In recent issue of the Theosophical Messenger in USA, it states in the front page: ""But, I'am not familiar with the candidates!" Since this is a big country and you may not personally know the candidates on the ballot, we have a system of nominators. Each candidate is listed with a set of nominators - others in the Society who vouch for or support that candidate. When you recognize the names of one or more of the nominators, you can feel more certain about your vote." So when you look at the Ballot for International President, you will see the list of nominators which is expected to sway the gullible and uninformed members. While Algeo may continue his silence about his role in engineering his candidature, if we do not hear from him as to what he did or did not do, all we cannot but come to the conclusion that we see his invisible hand behind the happenings nothing happened overnight. So for the welfare of the TS, I hope he will come clean and enlighten us all. Here is the list of nominators for the International President Election: Radha Burnier: Keshwar Dastur D K Govindaraj Conrad Jamieson Surendra Narayan General Secretaries of: East & Central Africa West Africa Argentina Brazil England India Indonesia Mexico Philippines John Algeo: Mary Anderson Gabriel Suarez Terezinha Kind Joy Mills Kim Dieu General Secretaries of: Argentina Belgium Cuba England Finland France Germany Indonesia Italy Netherlands New Zealand Philippines Portugal Spain Sweden United States ===xxx=== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Wed Apr 23 18:54:58 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 69833 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2008 01:54:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2008 01:54:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.245) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 2008 01:54:56 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c8so878231ana.43 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:54:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.41.9 with SMTP id o9mr4206567ano.84.1209002095436; Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:54:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:54:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 20:54:55 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.245 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS President Elections -- Some Thoughts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=qSy4-ZJlAG0wEgtKcBxHLLjequ16ftBnL7G8AjhU086PfdjwNao Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43642 Everyone in the TS knows its Motto =96 "There is No Religion Higher Than Truth". When members were told by the leaders that Radha Burnier's mental and physical health were such that she will not be able to effectively function as the President, they knew it was false or should have known to be false. When the recently, two doctors who examined her certified her to be fit, an= y doubts should have been put to rest. Justice requires all those who put out such false information meant to mislead gullible and uninformed members to vote for John Algeo, should recant their earlier opinion =96 after all it was their opinion and as none= is a physician who has examined her personally. All these members involved in the nomination activities are supposed to be long-term members dedicated to the principles and practice of Theosophical Principles. When you google about theosophy and hypocrisy and injustice, yo= u will find the following from HPB: "Above all, the duty of every member is to fight against cant, hypocrisy, and injustice in every shape=85 A derogatory or slanderous statement made against a fellow theosophist in the presence of a member, shall not be permitted by him to pass without protest, unless he knows it is true, in which case he should remain silent.= " When putting these two side by side, any rookie/novice member who has been reading what has been going on will wonder if TS is another world wide religious organization led by hypocritical leaders who do not practice what they preach. They seem to behave like ordinary men and women who say they believe one thing and do something entirely different. The membership of TS as a percentage of world population has been going down. In this Internet age, when prospective members see what we preach and what we practice, it is going to have almost fatal influence. Is this what we members and leaders want? I just wanted to share some of my thoughts since I think what is going on i= s going to negatively affect the organization for years to come, unless we quickly set things right and demonstrate we practice what we preach.It is that simple. mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jokelap@dnainternet.net Wed Apr 23 21:10:29 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: jokelap@dnainternet.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 1596 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2008 04:10:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2008 04:10:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.dnainternet.fi) (87.94.96.112) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 2008 04:10:26 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (223-243.adsl.lpoy.dnainternet.fi [78.27.77.243]) by smtp2.dnainternet.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62BCCC90A for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 07:10:24 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <48100830.8050306@dnainternet.net> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 07:10:24 +0300 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 87.94.96.112 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Jokela Petri Subject: Re: Theos-World Update on Algeo and TS President Nomination X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=281705993; y=Q_4lmdeuBpAIMKL_0b9rR6ttj0Yp0FDiLGizJIUK9OCin7PH61aO X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43643 Is there two general secretaries for england or what? At least England is on the both list for Radha and John. PJ MKR kirjoitti: > > Those who have been following the messages here now have some idea of what > went on prior to nominations for International President using the > unsubstantiated ruse that Radha Burnier is in bad health physically and > mentally. > > Early this month two examining doctors declared her fully fit both > mentally > and physically, the truth has come out in spite of various well known > theosophical names associating themselves with the false information. > None, > including Algeo, seems to have talked to Radha Burnier directly asking her > about her health before they nominated John Algeo. > > It appears that the origins of the current election maneuverings seems to > have had its origin in 2006 when John Algeo had a hand in changing the > International Election procedure to include the names of the > individuals who > nominate the candidates. > > It is a well-known technique perfected in the TS elections in the USA to > influence the gullible and uninformed membership to vote for those > supported > by active players and politicians. In recent issue of the Theosophical > Messenger in USA, it states in the front page: > > ""But, I'am not familiar with the candidates!" Since this is a big country > and you may not personally know the candidates on the ballot, we have a > system of nominators. Each candidate is listed with a set of nominators - > others in the Society who vouch for or support that candidate. When you > recognize the names of one or more of the nominators, you can feel more > certain about your vote." > > So when you look at the Ballot for International President, you will > see the > list of nominators which is expected to sway the gullible and uninformed > members. While Algeo may continue his silence about his role in > engineering > his candidature, if we do not hear from him as to what he did or did > not do, > all we cannot but come to the conclusion that we see his invisible hand > behind the happenings nothing happened overnight. So for the welfare > of the > TS, I hope he will come clean and enlighten us all. > > Here is the list of nominators for the International President Election: > > Radha Burnier: > Keshwar Dastur > D K Govindaraj > Conrad Jamieson > Surendra Narayan > General Secretaries of: > East & Central Africa > West Africa > Argentina > Brazil > England > India > Indonesia > Mexico > Philippines > > John Algeo: > Mary Anderson > Gabriel Suarez > Terezinha Kind > Joy Mills > Kim Dieu > General Secretaries of: > Argentina > Belgium > Cuba > England > Finland > France > Germany > Indonesia > Italy > Netherlands > New Zealand > Philippines > Portugal > Spain > Sweden > United States > > ===xxx=== > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > From Drpsionic@aol.com Wed Apr 23 21:45:20 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 90465 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2008 04:45:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2008 04:45:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m24.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.5) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 2008 04:45:18 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d59.1d75f191 (37144) for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 00:44:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from FWM-M25 (fwm-m25.webmail.aol.com [64.12.193.227]) by cia-ma03.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMA036-911848101042fa; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 00:44:50 -0400 References: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 00:44:50 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.229.193.240 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36240-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.229.193.240 by FWM-M25.sysops.aol.com (64.12.193.227) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Thu, 24 Apr 2008 00:44:50 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA73DD10C92AA2-66C-4CB3@FWM-M25.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.5 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Update on Algeo and TS President Nomination X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=_wARUVT5uQfbBlKP2zp2CNgXKADFUCbyAmqRqZqONTQyittoWw X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43644 Ok, let's just assume that they are all stark, staring nuts and let them fight it out with super soakers loaded with prune juice. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: MKR To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; theos-L@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 8:21 pm Subject: Theos-World Update on Algeo and TS President Nomination Those who have been following the messages here now have some idea of what went on prior to nominations for International President using the unsubstantiated ruse that Radha Burnier is in bad health physically and mentally. Early this month two examining doctors declared her fully fit both mentally and physically, the truth has come out in spite of various well known theosophical names associating themselves with the false information. None, including Algeo, seems to have talked to Radha Burnier directly asking her about her health before they nominated John Algeo. It appears that the origins of the current election maneuverings seems to have had its origin in 2006 when John Algeo had a hand in changing the International Election procedure to include the names of the individuals who nominate the candidates. It is a well-known technique perfected in the TS elections in the USA to influence the gullible and uninformed membership to vote for those supported by active players and politicians. In recent issue of the Theosophical Messenger in USA, it states in the front page: ""But, I'am not familiar with the candidates!" Since this is a big country and you may not personally know the candidates on the ballot, we have a system of nominators. Each candidate is listed with a set of nominators - others in the Society who vouch for or support that candidate. When you recognize the names of one or more of the nominators, you can feel more certain about your vote." So when you look at the Ballot for International President, you will see the list of nominators which is expected to sway the gullible and uninformed members. While Algeo may continue his silence about his role in engineering his candidature, if we do not hear from him as to what he did or did not do, all we cannot but come to the conclusion that we see his invisible hand behind the happenings nothing happened overnight. So for the welfare of the TS, I hope he will come clean and enlighten us all. Here is the list of nominators for the International President Election: Radha Burnier: Keshwar Dastur D K Govindaraj Conrad Jamieson Surendra Narayan General Secretaries of: East & Central Africa West Africa Argentina Brazil England India Indonesia Mexico Philippines John Algeo: Mary Anderson Gabriel Suarez Terezinha Kind Joy Mills Kim Dieu General Secretaries of: Argentina Belgium Cuba England Finland France Germany Indonesia Italy Netherlands New Zealand Philippines Portugal Spain Sweden United States ===xxx=== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Wed Apr 23 21:53:02 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 72829 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2008 04:53:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2008 04:53:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m25.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.6) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 2008 04:53:02 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.cb0.2a8775ee (37038) for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 00:51:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from FWM-M25 (fwm-m25.webmail.aol.com [64.12.193.227]) by cia-db02.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB028-90ae481011dd3b; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 00:51:41 -0400 References: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 00:51:42 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.229.193.240 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36240-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.229.193.240 by FWM-M25.sysops.aol.com (64.12.193.227) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Thu, 24 Apr 2008 00:51:42 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA73DE06045E31-66C-4CCF@FWM-M25.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.6 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World TS President Elections -- Some Thoughts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=j6ZyXqdBh5BPehZ_fhMxjmodjfl_a7c9JVYxBy_dgeQxfkeCDA X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43645 A "world wide religious organization led by hypocritical leaders who do not= practice what they preach?"=C2=A0 I thought that was the definition of a r= eligious organization! Actually, let us be honest, the Adyar TS is a world wide organization of sp= iritual anarchists to whom leaders are pretty much irrelevant except for ma= king sure the HQ grounds are kept up.=C2=A0 In fact, I remember years ago, = writing a congratulatory letter to John reminding him that the only real jo= b the TSA president had that mattered was making sure that the Olcott lawn = was mowed.=C2=A0 When I went out to Olcott after he took office, he greeted= me laughing and told me that he wanted to mow the lawn but Adele would not= let him.=C2=A0 For all his many faults, John Algeo does have one thing tha= t Radha never has even come close to showing--a sense of humor! Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano=20 -----Original Message----- From: MKR To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; theos-L@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 8:54 pm Subject: Theos-World TS President Elections -- Some Thoughts Everyone in the TS knows its Motto =E2=80=93 "There is No Religion Higher T= han ruth". When members were told by the leaders that Radha Burnier's mental and hysical health were such that she will not be able to effectively function s the President, they knew it was false or should have known to be false. hen the recently, two doctors who examined her certified her to be fit, any oubts should have been put to rest. Justice requires all those who put out such false information meant to islead gullible and uninformed members to vote for John Algeo, should ecant their earlier opinion =E2=80=93 after all it was their opinion and as= none is physician who has examined her personally. All these members involved in the nomination activities are supposed to be ong-term members dedicated to the principles and practice of Theosophical rinciples. When you google about theosophy and hypocrisy and injustice, you ill find the following from HPB: "Above all, the duty of every member is to fight against cant, hypocrisy, nd injustice in every shape=E2=80=A6 A derogatory or slanderous statement made against a fellow theosophist in he presence of a member, shall not be permitted by him to pass without rotest, unless he knows it is true, in which case he should remain silent." When putting these two side by side, any rookie/novice member who has been eading what has been going on will wonder if TS is another world wide eligious organization led by hypocritical leaders who do not practice what hey preach. They seem to behave like ordinary men and women who say they elieve one thing and do something entirely different. The membership of TS as a percentage of world population has been going own. In this Internet age, when prospective members see what we preach and hat we practice, it is going to have almost fatal influence. Is this what e members and leaders want? I just wanted to share some of my thoughts since I think what is going on i= s oing to negatively affect the organization for years to come, unless we uickly set things right and demonstrate we practice what we preach.It is hat simple. mkr Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ----------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links Individual Email | Traditional http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From anton_rozman@yahoo.com Thu Apr 24 00:52:28 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: anton_rozman@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 91250 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2008 07:52:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2008 07:52:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n45b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.159) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 2008 07:52:25 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n45.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Apr 2008 07:52:25 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Apr 2008 07:52:25 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Apr 2008 07:52:25 -0000 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 07:52:25 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <48100830.8050306@dnainternet.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.168.159 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 209.73.164.201 From: "Anton Rozman" Subject: Re: Theos-World Update on Algeo and TS President Nomination X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=192242904; y=Pm9u0EWToe8U454ZtERZBBnBplk3fLl804RNZtn9VqPBRTPO4URn X-Yahoo-Profile: anton_rozman X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43646 Extract from the RULES AND REGULATIONS FOR THE MANAGEMENT OF THE ASSOCIATION NAMED `THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY', ADYAR, MADRAS 10. Election of President Each member of the General Council, who is a General Secretary, shall=20 be entitled to make three nominations and shall consult his Governing=20 Body before making nominations. ............................... Most probably GS of the TS in Argentina, England, Indonesia and=20 Philippines have nominated both candidates. Best regards, Anton --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Jokela Petri wrote: > > Is there two general secretaries for england or what? > At least England is on the both list for Radha and John. >=20 > PJ >=20 >=20 > MKR kirjoitti: > > > > Those who have been following the messages here now have some=20 idea of what > > went on prior to nominations for International President using the > > unsubstantiated ruse that Radha Burnier is in bad health=20 physically and > > mentally. > > > > Early this month two examining doctors declared her fully fit=20 both=20 > > mentally > > and physically, the truth has come out in spite of various well=20 known > > theosophical names associating themselves with the false=20 information.=20 > > None, > > including Algeo, seems to have talked to Radha Burnier directly=20 asking her > > about her health before they nominated John Algeo. > > > > It appears that the origins of the current election maneuverings=20 seems to > > have had its origin in 2006 when John Algeo had a hand in=20 changing the > > International Election procedure to include the names of the=20 > > individuals who > > nominate the candidates. > > > > It is a well-known technique perfected in the TS elections in the=20 USA to > > influence the gullible and uninformed membership to vote for=20 those=20 > > supported > > by active players and politicians. In recent issue of the=20 Theosophical > > Messenger in USA, it states in the front page: > > > > ""But, I'am not familiar with the candidates!" Since this is a=20 big country > > and you may not personally know the candidates on the ballot, we=20 have a > > system of nominators. Each candidate is listed with a set of=20 nominators - > > others in the Society who vouch for or support that candidate.=20 When you > > recognize the names of one or more of the nominators, you can=20 feel more > > certain about your vote." > > > > So when you look at the Ballot for International President, you=20 will=20 > > see the > > list of nominators which is expected to sway the gullible and=20 uninformed > > members. While Algeo may continue his silence about his role in=20 > > engineering > > his candidature, if we do not hear from him as to what he did or=20 did=20 > > not do, > > all we cannot but come to the conclusion that we see his=20 invisible hand > > behind the happenings nothing happened overnight. So for the=20 welfare=20 > > of the > > TS, I hope he will come clean and enlighten us all. > > > > Here is the list of nominators for the International President=20 Election: > > > > Radha Burnier: > > Keshwar Dastur > > D K Govindaraj > > Conrad Jamieson > > Surendra Narayan > > General Secretaries of: > > East & Central Africa > > West Africa > > Argentina > > Brazil > > England > > India > > Indonesia > > Mexico > > Philippines > > > > John Algeo: > > Mary Anderson > > Gabriel Suarez > > Terezinha Kind > > Joy Mills > > Kim Dieu > > General Secretaries of: > > Argentina > > Belgium > > Cuba > > England > > Finland > > France > > Germany > > Indonesia > > Italy > > Netherlands > > New Zealand > > Philippines > > Portugal > > Spain > > Sweden > > United States > > > > =3D=3D=3Dxxx=3D=3D=3D > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > From Mvandertak@yahoo.com Thu Apr 24 04:20:59 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mvandertak@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 74805 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2008 11:20:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2008 11:20:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52612.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.215) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 2008 11:20:56 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 43909 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Apr 2008 11:20:56 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: XudzF9IVM1n79bgteIR2.HB7rLsrpyytJdkLCt_Pzp5fc9e05AFAaMKKsbVVlU3HRU26DL1PUYPunbmcS2Y.vq7g3tFUuVK2kuOQhmRrNS.w5Y79D9rELFM87aMlzprAgfO3b1rjYqObGwRARLKaopk6yJG6DIaev7rZghyTO688wzHqat5JnA-- X-Received: from [82.217.39.103] by web52612.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 04:20:55 PDT Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 04:20:55 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8CA73DE06045E31-66C-4CCF@FWM-M25.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <987197.43866.qm@web52612.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.215 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Martin Subject: Re: Theos-World TS President Elections -- Some Thoughts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=38276385; y=n37sShJSUkNgK8fdtuSzrsn0_tpSi6btsn1OHrY5assnwZ0m5Q X-Yahoo-Profile: mvandertak X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43647 Enter Algeo in the first line>>>> Enter Burnier in the second line>>>> Click on "VISUALIZAR">>>> Enjoy ;-) http://www.tatuagemdaboa.com.br/ --- Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > A "world wide religious organization led by > hypocritical leaders who do not practice what they > preach?"  I thought that was the definition of a > religious organization! > > Actually, let us be honest, the Adyar TS is a world > wide organization of spiritual anarchists to whom > leaders are pretty much irrelevant except for making > sure the HQ grounds are kept up.  In fact, I > remember years ago, writing a congratulatory letter > to John reminding him that the only real job the TSA > president had that mattered was making sure that the > Olcott lawn was mowed.  When I went out to Olcott > after he took office, he greeted me laughing and > told me that he wanted to mow the lawn but Adele > would not let him.  For all his many faults, John > Algeo does have one thing that Radha never has even > come close to showing--a sense of humor! > > Chuck the Heretic > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > > -----Original Message----- > From: MKR > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; > theos-L@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 8:54 pm > Subject: Theos-World TS President Elections -- Some > Thoughts > > > > Everyone in the TS knows its Motto – "There is No > Religion Higher Than > ruth". > When members were told by the leaders that Radha > Burnier's mental and > hysical health were such that she will not be able > to effectively function > s the President, they knew it was false or should > have known to be false. > hen the recently, two doctors who examined her > certified her to be fit, any > oubts should have been put to rest. > Justice requires all those who put out such false > information meant to > islead gullible and uninformed members to vote for > John Algeo, should > ecant their earlier opinion – after all it was > their opinion and as none is > physician who has examined her personally. > All these members involved in the nomination > activities are supposed to be > ong-term members dedicated to the principles and > practice of Theosophical > rinciples. When you google about theosophy and > hypocrisy and injustice, you > ill find the following from HPB: > "Above all, the duty of every member is to fight > against cant, hypocrisy, > nd injustice in every shape… > A derogatory or slanderous statement made against a > fellow theosophist in > he presence of a member, shall not be permitted by > him to pass without > rotest, unless he knows it is true, in which case he > should remain silent." > When putting these two side by side, any > rookie/novice member who has been > eading what has been going on will wonder if TS is > another world wide > eligious organization led by hypocritical leaders > who do not practice what > hey preach. They seem to behave like ordinary men > and women who say they > elieve one thing and do something entirely > different. > The membership of TS as a percentage of world > population has been going > own. In this Internet age, when prospective members > see what we preach and > hat we practice, it is going to have almost fatal > influence. Is this what > e members and leaders want? > I just wanted to share some of my thoughts since I > think what is going on is > oing to negatively affect the organization for years > to come, unless we > uickly set things right and demonstrate we practice > what we preach.It is > hat simple. > mkr > > Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ----------------------------------- > Yahoo! Groups Links > Individual Email | Traditional > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From mkr777@gmail.com Thu Apr 24 06:10:09 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 41603 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2008 13:10:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2008 13:10:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wr-out-0506.google.com) (64.233.184.226) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 2008 13:10:06 -0000 X-Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id c30so2085169wra.14 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 06:10:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.213.4 with SMTP id l4mr5234400ang.151.1209042602472; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 06:10:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 06:10:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 08:10:02 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 64.233.184.226 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: New Theosophical Forum X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=EEFPLWgqxMUj2S5Yw1rgR2Bk4vma28DRM31543QA4TzM316ZE-Q Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43648 I just found the following interesting theosophical forum. You may want to visit and enjoy. We should be very grateful to Internet, which I am sure the powers behind the scenes brought out for the welfare of the world. Now without interference from organizational politicians (who like control over their followers and members, which provides them with a sense of security) we can freely exchange information and ideas and discuss anything of interest. I have never seen any of the politicians and their surrogates showing up in any of the forums for years. There appears to be an unwritten understanding that they not speak up in any of these forums, while the leaders incessantly talk about technology, Internet etc. and want your money donations for their pet projects, which go nowhere. http://theosophy-forum.com/index.php?showtopic=657&view=getnewpost mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Thu Apr 24 06:35:11 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 75822 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2008 13:35:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2008 13:35:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.244) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 2008 13:35:07 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b36so977255ana.106 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 06:35:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.248.9 with SMTP id v9mr5331805anh.86.1209044100556; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 06:35:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 06:35:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 08:35:00 -0500 To: "M K Ramadoss" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.244 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: President Election - Some thoughts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=ljQ_H0RDiEHU2n9eLm482v8XQ9AFROYKj4eEhT-SZQtMEEoFwvI Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43649 To: All General Secretaries/Presidents of Sections I posted a message on the theosophical maillists which are read by many members and theosophists around the world. These lists are setup by interested individual independent theosophists and are not controlled or censored by any organization or any individual. Hence, theosophists around the world are able to get information unfiltered and timely and useful. I highly urge you to subscribe to them and participate in them. It is good fo= r theosophy. Since I am not sure if any of you are reading any of the messages, I have copied below a message I recently posted on the maillists. Since I am just an ordinary member, do not hold any office, not planning to hold any office, nor expecting any favors from any organization, I wanted t= o share what I feel about the current situation regarding the Presidential Election. M K Ramadoss San Antonio, Texas, USA =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Everyone in the TS knows its Motto =96 "There is No Religion Higher Than Truth". When members were told by the leaders that Radha Burnier's mental and physical health were such that she will not be able to effectively function as the President, they knew it was false or should have known to be false. When the recently, two doctors who examined her certified her to be fit, an= y doubts should have been put to rest. Justice requires all those who put out such false information meant to mislead gullible and uninformed members to vote for John Algeo, should recant their earlier opinion =96 after all it was their opinion and as none= is a physician who has examined her personally. All these members involved in the nomination activities are supposed to be long-term members dedicated to the principles and practice of Theosophical Principles. When you google about theosophy and hypocrisy and injustice, yo= u will find the following from HPB: "Above all, the duty of every member is to fight against cant, hypocrisy, and injustice in every shape=85 A derogatory or slanderous statement made against a fellow theosophist in the presence of a member, shall not be permitted by him to pass without protest, unless he knows it is true, in which case he should remain silent.= " When putting these two side by side, any rookie/novice member who has been reading what has been going on will wonder if TS is another world wide religious organization led by hypocritical leaders who do not practice what they preach. They seem to behave like ordinary men and women who say they believe one thing and do something entirely different. The membership of TS as a percentage of world population has been going down. In this Internet age, when prospective members see what we preach and what we practice, it is going to have almost fatal influence. Is this what we members and leaders want? I just wanted to share some of my thoughts since I think what is going on i= s going to negatively affect the organization for years to come, unless we quickly set things right and demonstrate we practice what we preach.It is that simple. M K Ramadoss San Antonio, Texas, USA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Thu Apr 24 07:02:24 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 1435 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2008 14:02:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2008 14:02:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rn-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.170.191) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 2008 14:02:22 -0000 X-Received: by rn-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id a46so1360131rne.9 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 07:02:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.75.1 with SMTP id c1mr1769275wal.114.1209045741232; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 07:02:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.90.7 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 07:02:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 09:02:16 -0500 To: theos-l@yahoogroups.com, theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: X-Originating-IP: 64.233.170.191 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: [theos-l] Tone X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=UPhVA1tSLVdPVSotgiPbukdBhhav3xxShoX1ntPasMPWQCFq0F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43650 Your comments are very welcome and timely. I hope more readers will post their opinions. More the merrier. As an individual member, I feel we have been kept in the dark as to what politiking was going on. First inkling I got about the election issues was when I got a personal form letter from the President in the USA, like of which I have never seen in my years of association with theosophy. Also using the official mailing list for a personal mailing is unheard of. As they say "Truth with Triumph", let all the facts be placed before the membership so that they are fully informed and vote their conscience. When electioneering and propaganda is made on the basis of incorrect and perhaps false information, we have a right to question the facts. Truth should speak for itself, without fear or favor and all other formal display for respectfulness and other considerations should take a back seat. Respect is earned by actions and cannot be demanded in a free world. As an additional issue, for years theosophical maillists have been active. These were setup by independent individual theosophists and are not controlled or censored. We should be thankful to them. What we have seen is that none of the organizational leaders have ever taken advantage of these lists to interact with those interested in theosophy. Also we have not seen any of those active in the organizations participate in these lists. One wonders if there is an unwritten rule or fear that prevents participation, because in the days of old when printed material is the only way to distribute the information, organizations were able to control the flow of information, and today no one is able to control what goes on in the cyberspace. This is in spite of the organizations talking about technology and asking for your money donations for their pet Internet projects. I believe, now we are facing a critical time for the TS, which if not handled properly can lead to very serious long term problems to the TS. M K Ramadoss San Antonio Texas USA PS: I am also posting this msg on theos-talk. If you are not on that list, I highly recommend it. On 4/24/08, kenosis_ao wrote: > > Sir, > > While I respect that there may or may not be items needed for further > investigation in the upcoming Election process, I for one would like > to hear what our President and Vice President have to say on the > matters raised directly. > > Your own tone is not in keeping with Theosophical principles of > Brotherhood and actually detracts from the case that you are > presenting; your tone borders on insult and makes it look as if you > are not asking for an impartial investigation into your allegations, > but in fact have an agenda of your own. > > I am a neutral party and unaware of the truth or untruth of your > allegations, but until they are addressed publically by the parties > involved, then further allegations appears to be mere muck-raking and > is unseemly. > > I would ask for you to keep your questions & tone respectful until > the serious allegations you raise can be addressed by the esteemed > people they are leveled against. > > If your allegations are later determined to be founded, then we will > thank you for your diligence. Until that time our principles demand > that we hear from the parties these allegations concern. > > Truth is the Highest Religion. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From raquel_rpj@yahoo.es Thu Apr 24 07:27:59 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: raquel_rpj@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 32856 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2008 14:27:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2008 14:27:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web26505.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.42) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 2008 14:27:56 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 55129 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Apr 2008 14:27:55 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: WJ2_W4EVM1lPewUcG7dl1SRphBzq6TfvFclW0adx.CuPU3vNmPxpCKF0ylJcTurq._27EwfaLwndUG6GHiyPrVk.iGQq5sdfciqlbXEIUR5I4TmkQe5XcLh5b5w- X-Received: from [62.87.42.150] by web26505.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:27:54 CEST Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:27:54 +0200 (CEST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <718774.98993.qm@web52612.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <249823.54821.qm@web26505.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 217.146.176.42 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Raquel=20Rodr=EDguez?= Subject: RE: Theos-World Re: Music, the language of the Soul X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=319886574; y=4p_PsVgB5SR3B1K5L1oFaCq9wp79YLc2CRinW66gk2GyyF8LOQ X-Yahoo-Profile: raquel_rpj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43651 =20 To become the instrument oneself of That, which is everywhere, looking fo= r a channel to crystalize. Nevertheless at this time of my life I've got to the conclusion, that bo= th, intuition an study are necessary. Discipline in practice on scales will= give the musician the opportunity for improvisation. Myself, both a gifted and frustrated flute player, how often I have seen = a beautiful melody using my being to expres itself becoming trunked by the = clumsiness of my fingers.=20 Also the didactics inherit in the extremely boring practice of scales, le= d oneself to a good rapport of self personal unattachment very beneficial f= or further improvisation. My English is so awful, I don=B4t know if I=B4m expressing myself correct= ly. =20=20=20 I believe there are times for improvisation, there are times for deep stu= dy and these both are absolutely personal and everyone should find their ow= n moment to make an equilibrium between them. There both should be joyful. =20=20=20 I love both Theosophy and Music. Might live be joyful to all beings Best regards =20=20=20 Raquel =20=20 Martin escribi=F3: Nice one Raquel! This what Theosophy should be about, mu till you get sic of it :-) What's the need for knowledge, Akasha is full of it, better fill the head with Akasha instead of books...and then concentrate on music, its the universal language both dis- and harmonic. That's what Nature is about isn't it? Harmony! Balance! The middle way between extremes not the razorblade...unless you want to become a buddha in 5 minutes. --- Raquel Rodr=EDguez wrote: > Thank you Martin for the link. I hope you also enjoy > this: > 1 Giant Leap > http://www.whataboutme.tv/ >=20 > Martin escribi=F3: > Well here is the vegetable orchestra for a > start: >=20 > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DhpfYt7vRHuY >=20 > Brotherhood =3D=20 > having a good time, > play some music, > ...and eat the instruments after! >=20 > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Martin" > wrote: > > > >=20 > > It's not ready as of yet but to get an idea for > now, check out the=20 > > DVD Gypsy Caravan: trailer here: > > http://www.a-film.nl/trailer.php?id=3D1560 > > This movie showed me more brotherhood in 2 hours, > than I have=20 > shared=20 > > the last 30 years with theosophists... > >=20 > >=20 > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Antonio/Tony > None=20 > > wrote: > > > > > > Yes, absoloutly. > > >=20 > > > Martin wrote: Yes will=20 > > link you to it when its readx. My friend is > > > jewish btw and he respects the work of the > others. So > > > only if they agree I will give it free...:-) > > >=20 > > > --- Antonio/Tony None > > > wrote: > > >=20 > > > > Any chance of a listen? I am working with a > lot of > > > > arabic sounds at the minute. Would be > interesting to > > > > hear what its all about! > > > >=20 > > > > Cheers. > > > >=20 > > > > Martin wrote:=20 > > > > I just got this email from a friend, > > > > which proves to me, music has no=20 > > > > prejudice :-) > > > >=20 > > > > Hello friends, > > > >=20 > > > > As you know I live in Israel, the 2 weeks I'm > > > > Mixing here (here=20 > > > > means at my studio) > > > > a new disk for an Arab Palestinian, a great > guy,=20 > > > > and a very good=20 > > > > musician !! > > > > Most of the music was recorded in Amman > (Jordan)=20 > > > > some of the=20 > > > > musician playing there > > > > were brought specaially from Egyps (as they > are > > > > playing authentic=20 > > > > rare arab instruments) > > > > some tracks recorded in Nazareth, no one of > the > > > > musicians (exept of=20 > > > > the guy I'm working with) > > > > knows a thing about the other musicians - and > of > > > > caurse how the music=20 > > > > will come out - as each Musician was playing > only > > > > with 1 instrument=20 > > > > prerecorded as a guide line.. > > > > I must say it's very special, all the > > > > situation,from all=20 > > > > aspects..... and so is the music !!!! > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > Yahoo! for Good helps you make a difference > > > >=20 > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > > removed] > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > No Cost - Get a month of Blockbuster Total > Access now. Sweet=20 > deal=20 > > for Yahoo! users and friends.=20 > > > > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text1.com > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > --------------------------------- > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail. > > > A Smarter Inbox. > > >=20 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > --------------------------------- >=20 > Enviado desde Correo Yahoo! > La bandeja de entrada m=E1s inteligente. >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] >=20 >=20 __________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and=20 know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt= =3DAhu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ = =20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 --------------------------------- Enviado desde Correo Yahoo! La bandeja de entrada m=E1s inteligente. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Mvandertak@yahoo.com Thu Apr 24 08:15:20 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mvandertak@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 75545 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2008 15:15:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2008 15:15:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52603.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.206) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 2008 15:15:17 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 18626 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Apr 2008 15:15:16 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: f9xXCFgVM1l6KFOTDwHAJ_lpXDJRXPNyE4aOX2KDBh6eZgWKTXG2lsO_Wgvf7._Imv.7zgJ_cxAFPYdGZabZdYuMa4mOvw80bCkKjrgBSR8zfxmHr1wuBg-- X-Received: from [82.217.39.103] by web52603.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 08:15:16 PDT Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 08:15:16 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <249823.54821.qm@web26505.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <581341.17481.qm@web52603.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.206 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Martin Subject: RE: Theos-World Re: Music, the language of the Soul X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=38276385; y=GunrxZe4cFnCXu6wdYuHWL2BaPf06scuuqqGc-TMONSnq1S99A X-Yahoo-Profile: mvandertak X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43652 Lol, I do understand you, whether its the in between the lines of what you write or somewhere else. Language can never completely express what we feel inside, so no need to apologise for bat Enlisck :-) I am Dutch but our language is very dynamic, before you know it another 100 words have been added in no time...it's fun though to speak old Dutch to other Dutch peeps. --- Raquel Rodríguez wrote: > > To become the instrument oneself of That, which is > everywhere, looking for a channel to crystalize. > Nevertheless at this time of my life I've got to > the conclusion, that both, intuition an study are > necessary. Discipline in practice on scales will > give the musician the opportunity for improvisation. > Myself, both a gifted and frustrated flute player, > how often I have seen a beautiful melody using my > being to expres itself becoming trunked by the > clumsiness of my fingers. > Also the didactics inherit in the extremely boring > practice of scales, led oneself to a good rapport of > self personal unattachment very beneficial for > further improvisation. > My English is so awful, I don´t know if I´m > expressing myself correctly. > > I believe there are times for improvisation, there > are times for deep study and these both are > absolutely personal and everyone should find their > own moment to make an equilibrium between them. > There both should be joyful. > > I love both Theosophy and Music. > Might live be joyful to all beings > Best regards > > Raquel > > Martin escribió: > Nice one Raquel! > This what Theosophy should be about, mu till you get > sic of it :-) > What's the need for knowledge, Akasha is full of it, > better fill the head with Akasha instead of > books...and then concentrate on music, its the > universal language both dis- and harmonic. That's > what > Nature is about isn't it? Harmony! Balance! The > middle > way between extremes not the razorblade...unless you > want to become a buddha in 5 minutes. > > --- Raquel Rodríguez wrote: > > > Thank you Martin for the link. I hope you also > enjoy > > this: > > 1 Giant Leap > > http://www.whataboutme.tv/ > > > > Martin escribió: > > Well here is the vegetable orchestra for a > > start: > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpfYt7vRHuY > > > > Brotherhood = > > having a good time, > > play some music, > > ...and eat the instruments after! > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Martin" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > It's not ready as of yet but to get an idea for > > now, check out the > > > DVD Gypsy Caravan: trailer here: > > > http://www.a-film.nl/trailer.php?id=1560 > > > This movie showed me more brotherhood in 2 > hours, > > than I have > > shared > > > the last 30 years with theosophists... > > > > > > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Antonio/Tony > > None > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Yes, absoloutly. > > > > > > > > Martin wrote: Yes will > > > link you to it when its readx. My friend is > > > > jewish btw and he respects the work of the > > others. So > > > > only if they agree I will give it free...:-) > > > > > > > > --- Antonio/Tony None > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Any chance of a listen? I am working with a > > lot of > > > > > arabic sounds at the minute. Would be > > interesting to > > > > > hear what its all about! > > > > > > > > > > Cheers. > > > > > > > > > > Martin wrote: > > > > > I just got this email from a friend, > > > > > which proves to me, music has no > > > > > prejudice :-) > > > > > > > > > > Hello friends, > > > > > > > > > > As you know I live in Israel, the 2 weeks > I'm > > > > > Mixing here (here > > > > > means at my studio) > > > > > a new disk for an Arab Palestinian, a great > > guy, > > > > > and a very good > > > > > musician !! > > > > > Most of the music was recorded in Amman > > (Jordan) > > > > > some of the > > > > > musician playing there > > > > > were brought specaially from Egyps (as they > > are > > > > > playing authentic > > > > > rare arab instruments) > > > > > some tracks recorded in Nazareth, no one of > > the > > > > > musicians (exept of > > > > > the guy I'm working with) > > > > > knows a thing about the other musicians - > and > > of > > > > > caurse how the music > > > > > will come out - as each Musician was playing > > only > > > > > with 1 instrument > > > > > prerecorded as a guide line.. > > > > > I must say it's very special, all the > > > > > situation,from all > > > > > aspects..... and so is the music !!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > Yahoo! for Good helps you make a difference > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > No Cost - Get a month of Blockbuster Total > > Access now. Sweet > > deal > > > for Yahoo! users and friends. > > > > > > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text1.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail. > > > > A Smarter Inbox. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > Enviado desde Correo Yahoo! > > La bandeja de entrada más inteligente. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > > > === message truncated === ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Thu Apr 24 08:31:52 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 7540 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2008 15:31:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2008 15:31:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mx06.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.26) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 2008 15:31:49 -0000 X-Received: from 56341115.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.17.21] helo=khidr) by mx06.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1Jp3QK-0002IP-2W for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 17:31:48 +0200 Message-ID: <07ca01c8a620$52ebd290$15113456@khidr> To: References: Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 17:31:53 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.26 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" Subject: Re: Theos-World TS President Elections -- Some Thoughts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=57XVenRJIb2ImbQCRmNjy8PSKwSSK47GzjGu9tdq_EHS X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43653 To all readers My views are: H. P. Blavatsky says: IS DENUNCIATION A DUTY? "He who objects to having his views controverted and criticized must not write for Lucifer. " ..."Moreover, we have given good proofs of our impartiality. We published articles and letters criticizing not alone our personal theosophical and philosophical views, but discussing on subjects directly concerned with our personal honour and reputation; reviving the infamous calumnies in which not simple doubts, but distinctly formulated charges of dishonesty were cast into our teeth and our private character was torn to shreds (Vide "A Glance at Theosophy from the Outside", Lucifer for October, 1888). And if the editor will never shrink from what she considers her duty to her readers, and that she is prepared to throw every possible light upon mooted questions in order that truth should shine bright and hideous lies and superstitions be shown under their true colours - why should our contributors prove themselves so thin-skinned?" ( IS DENUNCIATION A DUTY? by H. P. Blavatsky - Lucifer Magazine 1888) - - - - - - - - M. Sufilight H. P. Blavatsky said: "The Society founded to remedy the glaring evils of Christianity, to shun bigotry and intolerance, cant and superstition and to cultivate real universal love extending even to the dumb brute". (The Collected Writings of H. P. Blavatsky, vol. 7, p.246) Master KH wrote in a Mahatma Letter: For the opposition represents enormous vested interests, and they have enthusiastic help from the Dugpas -- in Bhootan and the Vatican! (Here is all of Mahtama Letter, No. 55. Dugpas are the same as selfish Magicians.) ----- Original Message ----- From: "MKR" To: ; Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 3:54 AM Subject: Theos-World TS President Elections -- Some Thoughts Everyone in the TS knows its Motto - "There is No Religion Higher Than Truth". When members were told by the leaders that Radha Burnier's mental and physical health were such that she will not be able to effectively function as the President, they knew it was false or should have known to be false. When the recently, two doctors who examined her certified her to be fit, any doubts should have been put to rest. Justice requires all those who put out such false information meant to mislead gullible and uninformed members to vote for John Algeo, should recant their earlier opinion - after all it was their opinion and as none is a physician who has examined her personally. All these members involved in the nomination activities are supposed to be long-term members dedicated to the principles and practice of Theosophical Principles. When you google about theosophy and hypocrisy and injustice, you will find the following from HPB: "Above all, the duty of every member is to fight against cant, hypocrisy, and injustice in every shape. A derogatory or slanderous statement made against a fellow theosophist in the presence of a member, shall not be permitted by him to pass without protest, unless he knows it is true, in which case he should remain silent." When putting these two side by side, any rookie/novice member who has been reading what has been going on will wonder if TS is another world wide religious organization led by hypocritical leaders who do not practice what they preach. They seem to behave like ordinary men and women who say they believe one thing and do something entirely different. The membership of TS as a percentage of world population has been going down. In this Internet age, when prospective members see what we preach and what we practice, it is going to have almost fatal influence. Is this what we members and leaders want? I just wanted to share some of my thoughts since I think what is going on is going to negatively affect the organization for years to come, unless we quickly set things right and demonstrate we practice what we preach.It is that simple. mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links From nenqueteba2000@yahoo.com.ar Thu Apr 24 08:32:54 2008 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 93374 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2008 15:32:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2008 15:32:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n46d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.172) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 2008 15:32:54 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n46.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Apr 2008 15:32:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Apr 2008 15:32:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Apr 2008 15:32:54 -0000 X-Sender: nenqueteba2000@yahoo.com.ar X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 78631 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2008 14:50:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2008 14:50:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (209.191.69.82) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 2008 14:50:32 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 39347 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Apr 2008 14:50:32 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: hfS8w6sVM1mBvzZbWBVKAwH5v7HAIUTdo534LXiZVwZaAyKqwqLCsonSDEtgkJRGejM2Lv.B6bprAfLW.1oFuNV2FtFFMFn5lteS_5GCNFcm0Rv5BivSe9EG9jv4UjhPJsQ- X-Received: from [190.28.122.122] by web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 07:50:31 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/902.40 YahooMailWebService/0.7.185 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 07:50:31 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <45319.39160.qm@web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 209.191.69.82 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Noel vasco Subject: Re: Theos-World TS President Elections -- Some Thoughts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=208108019; y=0UK3oTzuVZxoKVLr1nZNc6FD4062BlHlMKyquek2ZBXHYpe2CjuKHhQ X-Yahoo-Profile: nenqueteba2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: eldon_tucker via web; 24 Apr 2008 15:32:53 -0000 X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43654 Dear Mkr Are you sure you have all the elements to judge, to accuse some members of = "hypocrisy and unjustice"? Did you recieve all the information? Are you pra= cticing what you have preached in this list?=20 Like a lonely member i think both are apt to be presidents and i think they= are honest.=20 Anyway we will have to change both, Algeo and Burnier, next years...=20 The way Ramadoss shows us his "arguments" and deductions sounds like a Cons= piracy Theory... Anyway, we could change the perspective, and see the probl= em from defenders of Mrs Radha... They could have "interests" too... Best regards ----- Mensaje original ---- De: MKR Para: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; theos-L@yahoogroups.com Enviado: jueves 24 de abril de 2008, 3:54:55 Asunto: Theos-World TS President Elections -- Some Thoughts Everyone in the TS knows its Motto =E2=80=93 "There is No Religion Higher T= han Truth". When members were told by the leaders that Radha Burnier's mental and physical health were such that she will not be able to effectively function as the President, they knew it was false or should have known to be false. When the recently, two doctors who examined her certified her to be fit, an= y doubts should have been put to rest. Justice requires all those who put out such false information meant to mislead gullible and uninformed members to vote for John Algeo, should recant their earlier opinion =E2=80=93 after all it was their opinion and a= s none is a physician who has examined her personally. All these members involved in the nomination activities are supposed to be long-term members dedicated to the principles and practice of Theosophical Principles. When you google about theosophy and hypocrisy and injustice, yo= u will find the following from HPB: "Above all, the duty of every member is to fight against cant, hypocrisy, and injustice in every shape=E2=80=A6 A derogatory or slanderous statement made against a fellow theosophist in the presence of a member, shall not be permitted by him to pass without protest, unless he knows it is true, in which case he should remain silent.= " When putting these two side by side, any rookie/novice member who has been reading what has been going on will wonder if TS is another world wide religious organization led by hypocritical leaders who do not practice what they preach. They seem to behave like ordinary men and women who say they believe one thing and do something entirely different. The membership of TS as a percentage of world population has been going down. In this Internet age, when prospective members see what we preach and what we practice, it is going to have almost fatal influence. Is this what we members and leaders want? I just wanted to share some of my thoughts since I think what is going on i= s going to negatively affect the organization for years to come, unless we quickly set things right and demonstrate we practice what we preach.It is that simple. mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links Los referentes m=C3=A1s importantes en compra/ venta de autos se junt= aron: Demotores y Yahoo! Ahora comprar o vender tu auto es m=C3=A1s f=C3=A1cil. Vist=C3=A1 ar.autos.= yahoo.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Thu Apr 24 08:47:54 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 52666 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2008 15:47:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2008 15:47:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wa-out-1112.google.com) (209.85.146.178) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 2008 15:47:52 -0000 X-Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id l24so5691122waf.17 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 08:47:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.124.1 with SMTP id w1mr1876983wac.45.1209052072235; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 08:47:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.90.7 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 08:47:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 10:47:51 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <07ca01c8a620$52ebd290$15113456@khidr> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <07ca01c8a620$52ebd290$15113456@khidr> X-Originating-IP: 209.85.146.178 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World TS President Elections -- Some Thoughts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=gpsPMahCvCFOFjfYwx5KELlUy8vJETOq9rTCgoBnIXqTykt7lhg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43655 You are on target. In the information age, more info merrier. First when printing was invented, it made info previously not accessible to masses. Now TV and Internet does the same thing in a larger global instantaneous way. As they say, let the facts come out and let the chips fall where they may. mkr On 4/24/08, Morten Nymann Olesen wrote: > > To all readers > > My views are: > > H. P. Blavatsky says: > IS DENUNCIATION A DUTY? > "He who objects to having his views controverted and criticized must not > write for Lucifer. " ..."Moreover, we have given good proofs of our > impartiality. We published articles and letters criticizing not alone our > personal theosophical and philosophical views, but discussing on subjects > directly concerned with our personal honour and reputation; reviving the > infamous calumnies in which not simple doubts, but distinctly formulated > charges of dishonesty were cast into our teeth and our private character > was > torn to shreds (Vide "A Glance at Theosophy from the Outside", Lucifer for > October, 1888). And if the editor will never shrink from what she considers > > her duty to her readers, and that she is prepared to throw every possible > light upon mooted questions in order that truth should shine bright and > hideous lies and superstitions be shown under their true colours - why > should our contributors prove themselves so thin-skinned?" > ( IS DENUNCIATION A DUTY? by H. P. Blavatsky - Lucifer Magazine 1888) > > - - - - - - - - > > M. Sufilight > > H. P. Blavatsky said: > "The Society founded to remedy the glaring evils of Christianity, to shun > bigotry and intolerance, cant and superstition and to cultivate real > universal love extending even to the dumb brute". > (The Collected Writings of H. P. Blavatsky, vol. 7, p.246) > > Master KH wrote in a Mahatma Letter: > For the opposition represents enormous vested interests, and they have > enthusiastic help from the Dugpas -- in Bhootan and the Vatican! > (Here is all of Mahtama Letter, No. 55. Dugpas are the same as selfish > Magicians.) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MKR" > > To: >; < > theos-L@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 3:54 AM > Subject: Theos-World TS President Elections -- Some Thoughts > > Everyone in the TS knows its Motto - "There is No Religion Higher Than > Truth". > > When members were told by the leaders that Radha Burnier's mental and > physical health were such that she will not be able to effectively function > as the President, they knew it was false or should have known to be false. > When the recently, two doctors who examined her certified her to be fit, > any > doubts should have been put to rest. > > Justice requires all those who put out such false information meant to > mislead gullible and uninformed members to vote for John Algeo, should > recant their earlier opinion - after all it was their opinion and as none > is > a physician who has examined her personally. > > All these members involved in the nomination activities are supposed to be > long-term members dedicated to the principles and practice of Theosophical > Principles. When you google about theosophy and hypocrisy and injustice, > you > will find the following from HPB: > > "Above all, the duty of every member is to fight against cant, hypocrisy, > and injustice in every shape. > > A derogatory or slanderous statement made against a fellow theosophist in > the presence of a member, shall not be permitted by him to pass without > protest, unless he knows it is true, in which case he should remain > silent." > > When putting these two side by side, any rookie/novice member who has been > reading what has been going on will wonder if TS is another world wide > religious organization led by hypocritical leaders who do not practice what > they preach. They seem to behave like ordinary men and women who say they > believe one thing and do something entirely different. > > The membership of TS as a percentage of world population has been going > down. In this Internet age, when prospective members see what we preach and > what we practice, it is going to have almost fatal influence. Is this what > we members and leaders want? > > I just wanted to share some of my thoughts since I think what is going on > is > going to negatively affect the organization for years to come, unless we > quickly set things right and demonstrate we practice what we preach.It is > that simple. > > mkr > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Thu Apr 24 08:57:32 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 27405 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2008 15:57:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2008 15:57:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO rn-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.170.187) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 2008 15:57:31 -0000 X-Received: by rn-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id j40so1461907rnf.12 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 08:57:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.114.13.1 with SMTP id 1mr1980073wam.4.1209052650907; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 08:57:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.90.7 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 08:57:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 10:57:30 -0500 To: theos-l@yahoogroups.com, theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: X-Originating-IP: 64.233.170.187 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: [theos-l] Re: Tone X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=dqrJQa6XiGM5pvL6QJ88IX6MoPzsXu96wf2AsQEHJ338dQwDSnY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43656 Thanks for your response. I have posted the form letter from the TS President/National Secretary in the USA. Also I have posted the two certificates from doctors certifying her state of health. If you do not find them here, you can find them on theos-talk archives, As they say let the facts come out, and come out quickly and let the chips fall where they may. If anyone has any factual information that contradicts what I have posted, I welcome them to post it here. All of us will be benefitted by more accurate information. So far none of those organizational leaders and their surrogates have not presented any factual info here. These maillists are free. Does not cost a cent or penny or paise. Due to the potential long term harm that will be done to the TS, more facts cannot but help. We who believe in "There is No Religion Higher Than Truth", need not fear truth. Let us go wherever Truth leads us. Only accurate facts can lead us. I welcome more responses on the above. mkr PS: Due the important nature of the issue on hand, I am posting my response to theos-talk also. On 4/24/08, kenosis_ao wrote: > > Sir, > > From my individual members' point of view, I see that you are making > unfounded allegations (I certainly have not seen any 'form letter' > from the VP, nor have I seen the letters of the 2 doctors that you > purport, nor have I seen our President's response, nor have I seen > anything from our Vice President in response). > > I would AGAIN ask you to further refrain from your inflamatory tone > and let the facts now come out. Including and especially your own > purported proofs supporting your allegations. Find a scanner and > upload your files for us to see. > > Everything that YOU have stated is also unfounded at this time. The > balance must be weighed fully and this will require documentation, > not just loud proclamations. > > Show your own proofs and stop making unfounded statements. > You say these forums are uncensored; politely I ask you to make your > case with actual evidence. If you now censor me in this request, then > we will have better discernment of what is really going on. > > In my experience of the 'theosophical leadership' it is most likely > that they are busy actually doing theosophical work. The Internet is > a large place and impossible to keep monitored for inflamatory speech. > Forums change weekly (I have been a TS member for several years and > work in technology and had never heard of these 2 Yahoo lists nor any > others that you speak of for example). > > Your accusing the leadership of 'fear of forum use' is pure > speculation and innuendo and PLEASE DESIST. > > You state in an earlier email that the VP was chosen by the President > several times for his trusted role. I would therefore trust the > President and the VP to respond in a timely and open manner. > > From you Sir: more Light, less Heat! > > --- In theos-l@yahoogroups.com , MKR > wrote: > > > > Your comments are very welcome and timely. I hope more readers will > post > > their opinions. More the merrier. > > > > As an individual member, I feel we have been kept in the dark as to > what > > politiking was going on. First inkling I got about the election > issues was > > when I got a personal form letter from the President in the USA, > like of > > which I have never seen in my years of association with theosophy. > Also > > using the official mailing list for a personal mailing is unheard > of. > > > > As they say "Truth with Triumph", let all the facts be placed > before the > > membership so that they are fully informed and vote their > conscience. > > > > When electioneering and propaganda is made on the basis of > incorrect and > > perhaps false information, we have a right to question the facts. > Truth > > should speak for itself, without fear or favor and all other formal > display > > for respectfulness and other considerations should take a back > seat. Respect > > is earned by actions and cannot be demanded in a free world. > > > > As an additional issue, for years theosophical maillists have been > active. > > These were setup by independent individual theosophists and are not > > controlled or censored. We should be thankful to them. > > > > What we have seen is that none of the organizational leaders have > ever taken > > advantage > > of these lists to interact with those interested in theosophy. Also > we > > have not seen any of those active > > in the organizations participate in these lists. One wonders if > there is an > > unwritten rule or fear that prevents > > participation, because in the days of old when printed material is > the only > > way to distribute the > > information, organizations were able to control the flow of > information, and > > today no one is able to > > control what goes on in the cyberspace. This is in spite of the > > organizations talking about technology > > and asking for your money donations for their pet Internet projects. > > > > I believe, now we are facing a critical time for the TS, which if > not > > handled properly can lead to very > > serious long term problems to the TS. > > > > M K Ramadoss > > San Antonio Texas USA > > > > PS: I am also posting this msg on theos-talk. If you are not on > that list, I > > highly recommend it. > > > > > > > > On 4/24/08, kenosis_ao wrote: > > > > > > Sir, > > > > > > While I respect that there may or may not be items needed for > further > > > investigation in the upcoming Election process, I for one would > like > > > to hear what our President and Vice President have to say on the > > > matters raised directly. > > > > > > Your own tone is not in keeping with Theosophical principles of > > > Brotherhood and actually detracts from the case that you are > > > presenting; your tone borders on insult and makes it look as if > you > > > are not asking for an impartial investigation into your > allegations, > > > but in fact have an agenda of your own. > > > > > > I am a neutral party and unaware of the truth or untruth of your > > > allegations, but until they are addressed publically by the > parties > > > involved, then further allegations appears to be mere muck-raking > and > > > is unseemly. > > > > > > I would ask for you to keep your questions & tone respectful until > > > the serious allegations you raise can be addressed by the esteemed > > > people they are leveled against. > > > > > > If your allegations are later determined to be founded, then we > will > > > thank you for your diligence. Until that time our principles > demand > > > that we hear from the parties these allegations concern. > > > > > > Truth is the Highest Religion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Thu Apr 24 09:02:29 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 49195 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2008 16:02:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2008 16:02:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mx06.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.26) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 2008 16:02:27 -0000 X-Received: from 56341115.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.17.21] helo=khidr) by mx06.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1Jp3tx-0003iF-2F for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:02:26 +0200 Message-ID: <084b01c8a624$99fa99b0$15113456@khidr> To: References: <07ca01c8a620$52ebd290$15113456@khidr> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:02:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.26 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" Subject: Re: Theos-World TS President Elections -- Some Thoughts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=fhi0A2oOUx-8zdeD-979bHTEk0fnI_T9DX3_w13MdCMI X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43657 To MKR and all My views are: Well thanks. Will you in a more honest or precise search after the truth - provide this list with fascimiles of the letters and e-mails you mention you have received about Radha Burnier, and John Alego etc.? H. P. Blavatsky said: "The Society founded to remedy the glaring evils of Christianity, to shun bigotry and intolerance, cant and superstition and to cultivate real universal love extending even to the dumb brute". (The Collected Writings of H. P. Blavatsky, vol. 7, p.246) Sometimes I think, that the theosophists in India think differently than the theosophists in US or EU and for instance even the Sufis of the Middle East, because they grow from different cultures and backgrounds. And I find, that this is vital when talking about organisational issues and TS. - - - - - - - - M. Sufilight Master KH wrote in a Mahatma Letter: For the opposition represents enormous vested interests, and they have enthusiastic help from the Dugpas -- in Bhootan and the Vatican! (Here is all of Mahtama Letter, No. 55. Dugpas are the same as selfish Magicians.) ----- Original Message ----- From: MKR To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 5:47 PM Subject: Re: Theos-World TS President Elections -- Some Thoughts You are on target. In the information age, more info merrier. First when printing was invented, it made info previously not accessible to masses. Now TV and Internet does the same thing in a larger global instantaneous way. As they say, let the facts come out and let the chips fall where they may. mkr On 4/24/08, Morten Nymann Olesen wrote: > > To all readers > > My views are: > > H. P. Blavatsky says: > IS DENUNCIATION A DUTY? > "He who objects to having his views controverted and criticized must not > write for Lucifer. " ..."Moreover, we have given good proofs of our > impartiality. We published articles and letters criticizing not alone our > personal theosophical and philosophical views, but discussing on subjects > directly concerned with our personal honour and reputation; reviving the > infamous calumnies in which not simple doubts, but distinctly formulated > charges of dishonesty were cast into our teeth and our private character > was > torn to shreds (Vide "A Glance at Theosophy from the Outside", Lucifer for > October, 1888). And if the editor will never shrink from what she considers > > her duty to her readers, and that she is prepared to throw every possible > light upon mooted questions in order that truth should shine bright and > hideous lies and superstitions be shown under their true colours - why > should our contributors prove themselves so thin-skinned?" > ( IS DENUNCIATION A DUTY? by H. P. Blavatsky - Lucifer Magazine 1888) > > - - - - - - - - > > M. Sufilight > > H. P. Blavatsky said: > "The Society founded to remedy the glaring evils of Christianity, to shun > bigotry and intolerance, cant and superstition and to cultivate real > universal love extending even to the dumb brute". > (The Collected Writings of H. P. Blavatsky, vol. 7, p.246) > > Master KH wrote in a Mahatma Letter: > For the opposition represents enormous vested interests, and they have > enthusiastic help from the Dugpas -- in Bhootan and the Vatican! > (Here is all of Mahtama Letter, No. 55. Dugpas are the same as selfish > Magicians.) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MKR" > > To: >; < > theos-L@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 3:54 AM > Subject: Theos-World TS President Elections -- Some Thoughts > > Everyone in the TS knows its Motto - "There is No Religion Higher Than > Truth". > > When members were told by the leaders that Radha Burnier's mental and > physical health were such that she will not be able to effectively function > as the President, they knew it was false or should have known to be false. > When the recently, two doctors who examined her certified her to be fit, > any > doubts should have been put to rest. > > Justice requires all those who put out such false information meant to > mislead gullible and uninformed members to vote for John Algeo, should > recant their earlier opinion - after all it was their opinion and as none > is > a physician who has examined her personally. > > All these members involved in the nomination activities are supposed to be > long-term members dedicated to the principles and practice of Theosophical > Principles. When you google about theosophy and hypocrisy and injustice, > you > will find the following from HPB: > > "Above all, the duty of every member is to fight against cant, hypocrisy, > and injustice in every shape. > > A derogatory or slanderous statement made against a fellow theosophist in > the presence of a member, shall not be permitted by him to pass without > protest, unless he knows it is true, in which case he should remain > silent." > > When putting these two side by side, any rookie/novice member who has been > reading what has been going on will wonder if TS is another world wide > religious organization led by hypocritical leaders who do not practice what > they preach. They seem to behave like ordinary men and women who say they > believe one thing and do something entirely different. > > The membership of TS as a percentage of world population has been going > down. In this Internet age, when prospective members see what we preach and > what we practice, it is going to have almost fatal influence. Is this what > we members and leaders want? > > I just wanted to share some of my thoughts since I think what is going on > is > going to negatively affect the organization for years to come, unless we > quickly set things right and demonstrate we practice what we preach.It is > that simple. > > mkr > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Thu Apr 24 09:20:25 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 77705 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2008 16:20:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2008 16:20:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO yw-out-1718.google.com) (74.125.46.153) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 2008 16:20:20 -0000 X-Received: by yw-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id 9so1387960ywk.60 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 09:20:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.61.1 with SMTP id o1mr2027717wak.94.1209054017463; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 09:20:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.115.90.7 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 09:20:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:20:17 -0500 To: theos-l@yahoogroups.com, theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: X-Originating-IP: 74.125.46.153 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: [theos-l] Re: Tone X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=7QC5g8Eedcq4q4ruugQDcwUYeNpipJCVCAFDt2tQlj4gz5r0Pg4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43658 Thanks for your quick response. I am not anonymous. All you need is to google me -- "M K Ramadoss". You will find me, business and home addresses, phone numbers and even a map to get to my home. You can also see a picture of my home on Google. You can even find the value of my home!!! Googling, you will also find many messages I have posted on various topics in maillists over the past several years. I have the scanned doctor's certificates. Since the maillists do not allow attachments, I had to post the text version. If you have any questions about the veracity of any of the documentation or any of the facts, you can contact your national president or secretary and check with them. If you find any contradictory or incomplete info, please feel free to post it here. All should be ready to be corrected. As I believe, in the long run, "Truth with Triumph". M K Ramadoss San Antonio, Texas, San Antonio PS: Would you care to disclose about yourself, the kind of personal information I have made available about myself. Readers would be indeed interested. On 4/24/08, kenosis_ao wrote: > > Thank you, Sir. > > I did already see the posts indicated by you including the Doctor's > statements and form letter before I wrote my last post asking to see > the scanned originals, but honestly, these are not scanned originals > and are only 'cut & paste' letters. > > As the internet is anonymous and I do not know you, and you are > making strong statements against people with years of dedicated > service, my standard of evidence will neccesarily remain high. > > I hope you understand that anyone can generate a letter on the > internet that purports to be from someone else. While I am not at all > indicating that this is what you or someone else is doing, it is > possible and as such is the nature of your accusations, Truth demands > a higher standard of evidence. > > --- In theos-l@yahoogroups.com , MKR > wrote: > > > > Thanks for your response. > > > > I have posted the form letter from the TS President/National > Secretary in > > the USA. > > > > Also I have posted the two certificates from doctors certifying her > state of > > health. > > > > If you do not find them here, you can find them on theos-talk > archives, > > > > As they say let the facts come out, and come out quickly and let > the chips > > fall where they may. > > > > If anyone has any factual information that contradicts what I have > posted, I > > welcome them to post it here. All of us will be benefitted by more > accurate > > information. > > > > So far none of those organizational leaders and their surrogates > have not > > presented any factual info here. > > > > These maillists are free. Does not cost a cent or penny or paise. > > > > Due to the potential long term harm that will be done to the TS, > more facts > > cannot but help. We who believe in "There is No Religion Higher > Than > > Truth", need not fear truth. Let us go wherever Truth leads us. Only > > accurate facts can lead us. > > > > I welcome more responses on the above. > > > > mkr > > > > PS: Due the important nature of the issue on hand, I am posting my > response > > to theos-talk also. > > > > On 4/24/08, kenosis_ao wrote: > > > > > > Sir, > > > > > > From my individual members' point of view, I see that you are > making > > > unfounded allegations (I certainly have not seen any 'form letter' > > > from the VP, nor have I seen the letters of the 2 doctors that you > > > purport, nor have I seen our President's response, nor have I seen > > > anything from our Vice President in response). > > > > > > I would AGAIN ask you to further refrain from your inflamatory > tone > > > and let the facts now come out. Including and especially your own > > > purported proofs supporting your allegations. Find a scanner and > > > upload your files for us to see. > > > > > > Everything that YOU have stated is also unfounded at this time. > The > > > balance must be weighed fully and this will require documentation, > > > not just loud proclamations. > > > > > > Show your own proofs and stop making unfounded statements. > > > You say these forums are uncensored; politely I ask you to make > your > > > case with actual evidence. If you now censor me in this request, > then > > > we will have better discernment of what is really going on. > > > > > > In my experience of the 'theosophical leadership' it is most > likely > > > that they are busy actually doing theosophical work. The Internet > is > > > a large place and impossible to keep monitored for inflamatory > speech. > > > Forums change weekly (I have been a TS member for several years > and > > > work in technology and had never heard of these 2 Yahoo lists nor > any > > > others that you speak of for example). > > > > > > Your accusing the leadership of 'fear of forum use' is pure > > > speculation and innuendo and PLEASE DESIST. > > > > > > You state in an earlier email that the VP was chosen by the > President > > > several times for his trusted role. I would therefore trust the > > > President and the VP to respond in a timely and open manner. > > > > > > From you Sir: more Light, less Heat! > > > > > > --- In theos-l@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com>, MKR > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Your comments are very welcome and timely. I hope more readers > will > > > post > > > > their opinions. More the merrier. > > > > > > > > As an individual member, I feel we have been kept in the dark > as to > > > what > > > > politiking was going on. First inkling I got about the election > > > issues was > > > > when I got a personal form letter from the President in the USA, > > > like of > > > > which I have never seen in my years of association with > theosophy. > > > Also > > > > using the official mailing list for a personal mailing is > unheard > > > of. > > > > > > > > As they say "Truth with Triumph", let all the facts be placed > > > before the > > > > membership so that they are fully informed and vote their > > > conscience. > > > > > > > > When electioneering and propaganda is made on the basis of > > > incorrect and > > > > perhaps false information, we have a right to question the > facts. > > > Truth > > > > should speak for itself, without fear or favor and all other > formal > > > display > > > > for respectfulness and other considerations should take a back > > > seat. Respect > > > > is earned by actions and cannot be demanded in a free world. > > > > > > > > As an additional issue, for years theosophical maillists have > been > > > active. > > > > These were setup by independent individual theosophists and are > not > > > > controlled or censored. We should be thankful to them. > > > > > > > > What we have seen is that none of the organizational leaders > have > > > ever taken > > > > advantage > > > > of these lists to interact with those interested in theosophy. > Also > > > we > > > > have not seen any of those active > > > > in the organizations participate in these lists. One wonders if > > > there is an > > > > unwritten rule or fear that prevents > > > > participation, because in the days of old when printed material > is > > > the only > > > > way to distribute the > > > > information, organizations were able to control the flow of > > > information, and > > > > today no one is able to > > > > control what goes on in the cyberspace. This is in spite of the > > > > organizations talking about technology > > > > and asking for your money donations for their pet Internet > projects. > > > > > > > > I believe, now we are facing a critical time for the TS, which > if > > > not > > > > handled properly can lead to very > > > > serious long term problems to the TS. > > > > > > > > M K Ramadoss > > > > San Antonio Texas USA > > > > > > > > PS: I am also posting this msg on theos-talk. If you are not on > > > that list, I > > > > highly recommend it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/24/08, kenosis_ao wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Sir, > > > > > > > > > > While I respect that there may or may not be items needed for > > > further > > > > > investigation in the upcoming Election process, I for one > would > > > like > > > > > to hear what our President and Vice President have to say on > the > > > > > matters raised directly. > > > > > > > > > > Your own tone is not in keeping with Theosophical principles > of > > > > > Brotherhood and actually detracts from the case that you are > > > > > presenting; your tone borders on insult and makes it look as > if > > > you > > > > > are not asking for an impartial investigation into your > > > allegations, > > > > > but in fact have an agenda of your own. > > > > > > > > > > I am a neutral party and unaware of the truth or untruth of > your > > > > > allegations, but until they are addressed publically by the > > > parties > > > > > involved, then further allegations appears to be mere muck- > raking > > > and > > > > > is unseemly. > > > > > > > > > > I would ask for you to keep your questions & tone respectful > until > > > > > the serious allegations you raise can be addressed by the > esteemed > > > > > people they are leveled against. > > > > > > > > > > If your allegations are later determined to be founded, then > we > > > will > > > > > thank you for your diligence. Until that time our principles > > > demand > > > > > that we hear from the parties these allegations concern. > > > > > > > > > > Truth is the Highest Religion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Thu Apr 24 09:31:41 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 94252 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2008 16:31:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2008 16:31:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.242) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 2008 16:31:40 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c37so908849anc.91 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 09:31:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.110.15 with SMTP id i15mr5625189anc.130.1209054700222; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 09:31:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 09:31:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:31:40 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.242 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=dRL9qJTrvi8aeMBTbW82LZzxti9HKe2-nudiqgf23hIQ98UKjNc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43659 Some readers have questions about Radha Burnier's health and other related statements. They were based on documentation I have seen. Anyone who has any doubts about the veracity of them, they should contact their National Secretary/President, since they have them. That way you will get them from an independent party and be assured of the accuracy. If any of them tell you otherwise, please post a msg here. Then we will go from there. Also if anyone has any additional information or facts, I welcome them. More info cannot hurt. mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From meredith_bill@earthlink.net Thu Apr 24 11:50:46 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: meredith_bill@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 44644 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2008 18:50:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2008 18:50:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.64) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 2008 18:50:44 -0000 X-Received: from dialup-4.153.84.131.dial1.atlanta1.level3.net ([4.153.84.131] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Jp6Wm-0000zv-4O; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 14:50:40 -0400 Message-ID: <4810D677.3030105@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 14:50:31 -0400 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-l@yahoogroups.com, theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: d46af0b26f581e21b1f01cdd6d36d69e74bf435c0eb9d47825c03fe7276c88f5dcb243773464091af1f8d35d526f7863350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.64 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: meredith_bill Reply-To: meredith_bill@earthlink.net Subject: a reflection X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=191212763; y=LYNzor2n0ITXzkPd1F0n-LHszK42S33Iw_V9ycBNKtq1wdCGKXrGSXw X-Yahoo-Profile: meredith_bille X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43660 /What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us. --Ralph Waldo Emerson / From Augoeides-222@comcast.net Thu Apr 24 11:55:28 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: augoeides-222@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 79447 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2008 18:55:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (69.147.108.200) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2008 18:55:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO QMTA06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net) (76.96.62.56) by mta1.grp.re1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 2008 18:55:26 -0000 X-Received: from OMTA12.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.44]) by QMTA06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id HVyC1Z0050xGWP85606n00; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:55:18 +0000 X-Received: from amailcenter06.comcast.net ([204.127.225.106]) by OMTA12.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id HWvF1Z00F2JMgtY3Y00000; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:55:15 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=0c4D2bQBJvwA:10 a=4-PXRq5kqcUA:10 a=nG4AUVl/d2FqB4X2cmki4A==:17 a=j9dbRWMIAAAA:8 a=-h3p7bsJAAAA:8 a=vnREMb7VAAAA:8 a=K9Mn4ihlAAAA:8 a=CjxXgO3LAAAA:8 a=0X-DoLgK1pCaVzQO1EcA:9 a=GxE6RtASAf4u-49QLzoA:7 a=wVql61QC51ddXiSePTeM4hfU5GYA:4 a=rC2wZJ5BpNYA:10 a=ao4RW71Vw8YA:10 a=QJAqVYndk0IA:10 a=7gYbzoVOAAAA:8 a=duS2QjriAAAA:8 a=G_5s8neSAAAA:8 a=CF1WJvDbAAAA:8 a=jIgAjJfU73HsJNAKyPMA:9 a=LG2tqJ58iw07zNryQnEA:7 a=EBK44si2pNdcHUD7w_z0hmKIcBUA:4 a=l1KeHmMDpNIA:10 a=rnjSDB93LHIA:10 a=jeN6Q-uZn2oA:10 a=syfC3iHSy1IA:10 a=cM9qS3QmfZYA:10 a=37WNUvjkh6kA:10 X-Received: from [67.172.124.83] by amailcenter06.comcast.net; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:55:14 +0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:55:14 +0000 Message-Id: <042420081855.16208.4810D791000D6BED00003F502216557996CDCDCDD39C0A0B070A01099ABE@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 30 2007) X-Authenticated-Sender: QXVnb2VpZGVzLTIyMkBjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 76.96.62.56 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net Subject: RE: Theos-World Re: Music, the language of the Soul X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=314500470; y=rT1WEnqThkFzR_NjklhuwkpOJKI6whg4YXDLFmKJP0egyTmDtWROjVjXP4cSm3ot X-Yahoo-Profile: sessesgenbarpharanges Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43661 Raquel, Hi, nice to hear your love of the flute, a very ancient instrument. I wa= nt to take this opportunity to give a link on Music and a recent Scientific= announcement. Scientists are claiming new findings on the Geometry of Musi= c : >>>http://www.physorg.com/news127659537.html<<< Regards, John -------------- Original message --------------=20 From: Raquel Rodr=EDguez =20 To become the instrument oneself of That, which is everywhere, looking for = a channel to crystalize. Nevertheless at this time of my life I've got to the conclusion, that both,= intuition an study are necessary. Discipline in practice on scales will gi= ve the musician the opportunity for improvisation. Myself, both a gifted and frustrated flute player, how often I have seen a = beautiful melody using my being to expres itself becoming trunked by the cl= umsiness of my fingers.=20 Also the didactics inherit in the extremely boring practice of scales, led = oneself to a good rapport of self personal unattachment very beneficial for= further improvisation. My English is so awful, I don=B4t know if I=B4m expressing myself correctly= . I believe there are times for improvisation, there are times for deep study= and these both are absolutely personal and everyone should find their own = moment to make an equilibrium between them. There both should be joyful. I love both Theosophy and Music. Might live be joyful to all beings Best regards Raquel Martin escribi=F3: Nice one Raquel! This what Theosophy should be about, mu till you get sic of it :-) What's the need for knowledge, Akasha is full of it, better fill the head with Akasha instead of books...and then concentrate on music, its the universal language both dis- and harmonic. That's what Nature is about isn't it? Harmony! Balance! The middle way between extremes not the razorblade...unless you want to become a buddha in 5 minutes. --- Raquel Rodr=EDguez wrote: > Thank you Martin for the link. I hope you also enjoy > this: > 1 Giant Leap > http://www.whataboutme.tv/ >=20 > Martin escribi=F3: > Well here is the vegetable orchestra for a > start: >=20 > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DhpfYt7vRHuY >=20 > Brotherhood =3D=20 > having a good time, > play some music, > ...and eat the instruments after! >=20 > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Martin" > wrote: > > > >=20 > > It's not ready as of yet but to get an idea for > now, check out the=20 > > DVD Gypsy Caravan: trailer here: > > http://www.a-film.nl/trailer.php?id=3D1560 > > This movie showed me more brotherhood in 2 hours, > than I have=20 > shared=20 > > the last 30 years with theosophists... > >=20 > >=20 > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Antonio/Tony > None=20 > > wrote: > > > > > > Yes, absoloutly. > > >=20 > > > Martin wrote: Yes will=20 > > link you to it when its readx. My friend is > > > jewish btw and he respects the work of the > others. So > > > only if they agree I will give it free...:-) > > >=20 > > > --- Antonio/Tony None > > > wrote: > > >=20 > > > > Any chance of a listen? I am working with a > lot of > > > > arabic sounds at the minute. Would be > interesting to > > > > hear what its all about! > > > >=20 > > > > Cheers. > > > >=20 > > > > Martin wrote:=20 > > > > I just got this email from a friend, > > > > which proves to me, music has no=20 > > > > prejudice :-) > > > >=20 > > > > Hello friends, > > > >=20 > > > > As you know I live in Israel, the 2 weeks I'm > > > > Mixing here (here=20 > > > > means at my studio) > > > > a new disk for an Arab Palestinian, a great > guy,=20 > > > > and a very good=20 > > > > musician !! > > > > Most of the music was recorded in Amman > (Jordan)=20 > > > > some of the=20 > > > > musician playing there > > > > were brought specaially from Egyps (as they > are > > > > playing authentic=20 > > > > rare arab instruments) > > > > some tracks recorded in Nazareth, no one of > the > > > > musicians (exept of=20 > > > > the guy I'm working with) > > > > knows a thing about the other musicians - and > of > > > > caurse how the music=20 > > > > will come out - as each Musician was playing > only > > > > with 1 instrument=20 > > > > prerecorded as a guide line.. > > > > I must say it's very special, all the > > > > situation,from all=20 > > > > aspects..... and so is the music !!!! > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > Yahoo! for Good helps you make a difference > > > >=20 > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > > removed] > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > No Cost - Get a month of Blockbuster Total > Access now. Sweet=20 > deal=20 > > for Yahoo! users and friends.=20 > > > > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text1.com > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > --------------------------------- > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail. > > > A Smarter Inbox. > > >=20 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > --------------------------------- >=20 > Enviado desde Correo Yahoo! > La bandeja de entrada m=E1s inteligente. >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] >=20 >=20 __________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and=20 know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt= =3DAhu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ --------------------------------- Enviado desde Correo Yahoo! La bandeja de entrada m=E1s inteligente. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Thu Apr 24 13:59:09 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 11490 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2008 20:59:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2008 20:59:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.241) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 2008 20:59:06 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c34so779262anc.37 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 13:59:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.152.19 with SMTP id z19mr6150862and.80.1209070745432; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 13:59:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 13:59:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 15:59:05 -0500 To: theos-l@yahoogroups.com, theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.241 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: [theos-l] Re: Tone X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=ixbQjdgz4QIOOkKmvSKpojzu5iRD5AAtn7Vg2XwsUVNlxAtnryo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43662 It does not matter whether anyone believes whether it is me or someone else who is pretending to be me. Proof of the pudding is in eating as they say. Anyone who has any doubts about the accuracy of any documentary information I have mentioned, can verify them from the General Secretary/President of the Section and satisfy themselves, since I believe they have seen the documentation I have mentioned. If anyone has any information which is contrary to the ones I have discussed, feel free to share with us all. Earlier we do it, it is better for theosophy and TS and all of us. All we want to is to get at the facts. I strongly believe in the dictum "Truth will Triumph". mkr "There is No Religion Higher Than Truth" On 4/24/08, kenosis_ao wrote: > > Sir, > > Well, but again, on the internet, anyone can setup a profile to say > that they are someone they are not. The person who is writing this > forum may or may not be Mr Ramadoss in Texas. > > At this time, please know that I am a sincere Theosophist, with > several years experience in a Lodge. I do not hold/have never held > any national Presidential, Vice Presidential, Secretarial or > financial office but am involved at the local lodge level. > > Or, honestly, under my own level of evidence, I might not be who I > say I am either - you can decide based solely upon what I have said; > this is the internet. But I have not made any strong statements and > therefore do not need to defend my identity. > > I do not feel the need to disclose more as I am making no allegations > but only calling for hard evidence and for all within this forum to > continue to live within our professed ethics. > > I am not indicating that you are doing otherwise; only indicating > that it is now time for 'the accused' to have their own say about > these strong accusations. > > Their previous track record is honorable and the accusations are not > what I would see as expected behavior, therefore they each naturally > have right-of-response. > > --- In theos-l@yahoogroups.com , MKR > wrote: > > > > Thanks for your quick response. > > > > I am not anonymous. All you need is to google me -- "M K Ramadoss". > You will > > find me, business and home addresses, phone numbers and even a map > to get to > > my home. You can also see a picture of my home on Google. You can > even find > > the value of my home!!! > > > > Googling, you will also find many messages I have posted on various > topics > > in maillists over the past several years. > > > > I have the scanned doctor's certificates. Since the maillists do > not allow > > attachments, I had to post the text version. > > > > If you have any questions about the veracity of any of the > documentation or > > any of the facts, you can contact your national president or > secretary and > > check with them. If you find any contradictory or incomplete info, > please > > feel free to post it here. All should be ready to be corrected. > > > > As I believe, in the long run, "Truth with Triumph". > > > > M K Ramadoss > > San Antonio, Texas, San Antonio > > > > PS: Would you care to disclose about yourself, the kind of personal > > information I have made available about myself. Readers would be > indeed > > interested. > > > > > > On 4/24/08, kenosis_ao wrote: > > > > > > Thank you, Sir. > > > > > > I did already see the posts indicated by you including the > Doctor's > > > statements and form letter before I wrote my last post asking to > see > > > the scanned originals, but honestly, these are not scanned > originals > > > and are only 'cut & paste' letters. > > > > > > As the internet is anonymous and I do not know you, and you are > > > making strong statements against people with years of dedicated > > > service, my standard of evidence will neccesarily remain high. > > > > > > I hope you understand that anyone can generate a letter on the > > > internet that purports to be from someone else. While I am not at > all > > > indicating that this is what you or someone else is doing, it is > > > possible and as such is the nature of your accusations, Truth > demands > > > a higher standard of evidence. > > > > > > --- In theos-l@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com>, MKR > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks for your response. > > > > > > > > I have posted the form letter from the TS President/National > > > Secretary in > > > > the USA. > > > > > > > > Also I have posted the two certificates from doctors certifying > her > > > state of > > > > health. > > > > > > > > If you do not find them here, you can find them on theos-talk > > > archives, > > > > > > > > As they say let the facts come out, and come out quickly and let > > > the chips > > > > fall where they may. > > > > > > > > If anyone has any factual information that contradicts what I > have > > > posted, I > > > > welcome them to post it here. All of us will be benefitted by > more > > > accurate > > > > information. > > > > > > > > So far none of those organizational leaders and their surrogates > > > have not > > > > presented any factual info here. > > > > > > > > These maillists are free. Does not cost a cent or penny or > paise. > > > > > > > > Due to the potential long term harm that will be done to the TS, > > > more facts > > > > cannot but help. We who believe in "There is No Religion Higher > > > Than > > > > Truth", need not fear truth. Let us go wherever Truth leads us. > Only > > > > accurate facts can lead us. > > > > > > > > I welcome more responses on the above. > > > > > > > > mkr > > > > > > > > PS: Due the important nature of the issue on hand, I am posting > my > > > response > > > > to theos-talk also. > > > > > > > > On 4/24/08, kenosis_ao wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Sir, > > > > > > > > > > From my individual members' point of view, I see that you are > > > making > > > > > unfounded allegations (I certainly have not seen any 'form > letter' > > > > > from the VP, nor have I seen the letters of the 2 doctors > that you > > > > > purport, nor have I seen our President's response, nor have I > seen > > > > > anything from our Vice President in response). > > > > > > > > > > I would AGAIN ask you to further refrain from your inflamatory > > > tone > > > > > and let the facts now come out. Including and especially your > own > > > > > purported proofs supporting your allegations. Find a scanner > and > > > > > upload your files for us to see. > > > > > > > > > > Everything that YOU have stated is also unfounded at this > time. > > > The > > > > > balance must be weighed fully and this will require > documentation, > > > > > not just loud proclamations. > > > > > > > > > > Show your own proofs and stop making unfounded statements. > > > > > You say these forums are uncensored; politely I ask you to > make > > > your > > > > > case with actual evidence. If you now censor me in this > request, > > > then > > > > > we will have better discernment of what is really going on. > > > > > > > > > > In my experience of the 'theosophical leadership' it is most > > > likely > > > > > that they are busy actually doing theosophical work. The > Internet > > > is > > > > > a large place and impossible to keep monitored for inflamatory > > > speech. > > > > > Forums change weekly (I have been a TS member for several > years > > > and > > > > > work in technology and had never heard of these 2 Yahoo lists > nor > > > any > > > > > others that you speak of for example). > > > > > > > > > > Your accusing the leadership of 'fear of forum use' is pure > > > > > speculation and innuendo and PLEASE DESIST. > > > > > > > > > > You state in an earlier email that the VP was chosen by the > > > President > > > > > several times for his trusted role. I would therefore trust > the > > > > > President and the VP to respond in a timely and open manner. > > > > > > > > > > From you Sir: more Light, less Heat! > > > > > > > > > > --- In theos-l@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com> > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, MKR > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Your comments are very welcome and timely. I hope more > readers > > > will > > > > > post > > > > > > their opinions. More the merrier. > > > > > > > > > > > > As an individual member, I feel we have been kept in the > dark > > > as to > > > > > what > > > > > > politiking was going on. First inkling I got about the > election > > > > > issues was > > > > > > when I got a personal form letter from the President in the > USA, > > > > > like of > > > > > > which I have never seen in my years of association with > > > theosophy. > > > > > Also > > > > > > using the official mailing list for a personal mailing is > > > unheard > > > > > of. > > > > > > > > > > > > As they say "Truth with Triumph", let all the facts be > placed > > > > > before the > > > > > > membership so that they are fully informed and vote their > > > > > conscience. > > > > > > > > > > > > When electioneering and propaganda is made on the basis of > > > > > incorrect and > > > > > > perhaps false information, we have a right to question the > > > facts. > > > > > Truth > > > > > > should speak for itself, without fear or favor and all other > > > formal > > > > > display > > > > > > for respectfulness and other considerations should take a > back > > > > > seat. Respect > > > > > > is earned by actions and cannot be demanded in a free world. > > > > > > > > > > > > As an additional issue, for years theosophical maillists > have > > > been > > > > > active. > > > > > > These were setup by independent individual theosophists and > are > > > not > > > > > > controlled or censored. We should be thankful to them. > > > > > > > > > > > > What we have seen is that none of the organizational leaders > > > have > > > > > ever taken > > > > > > advantage > > > > > > of these lists to interact with those interested in > theosophy. > > > Also > > > > > we > > > > > > have not seen any of those active > > > > > > in the organizations participate in these lists. One > wonders if > > > > > there is an > > > > > > unwritten rule or fear that prevents > > > > > > participation, because in the days of old when printed > material > > > is > > > > > the only > > > > > > way to distribute the > > > > > > information, organizations were able to control the flow of > > > > > information, and > > > > > > today no one is able to > > > > > > control what goes on in the cyberspace. This is in spite of > the > > > > > > organizations talking about technology > > > > > > and asking for your money donations for their pet Internet > > > projects. > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe, now we are facing a critical time for the TS, > which > > > if > > > > > not > > > > > > handled properly can lead to very > > > > > > serious long term problems to the TS. > > > > > > > > > > > > M K Ramadoss > > > > > > San Antonio Texas USA > > > > > > > > > > > > PS: I am also posting this msg on theos-talk. If you are > not on > > > > > that list, I > > > > > > highly recommend it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/24/08, kenosis_ao wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sir, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While I respect that there may or may not be items needed > for > > > > > further > > > > > > > investigation in the upcoming Election process, I for one > > > would > > > > > like > > > > > > > to hear what our President and Vice President have to say > on > > > the > > > > > > > matters raised directly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your own tone is not in keeping with Theosophical > principles > > > of > > > > > > > Brotherhood and actually detracts from the case that you > are > > > > > > > presenting; your tone borders on insult and makes it look > as > > > if > > > > > you > > > > > > > are not asking for an impartial investigation into your > > > > > allegations, > > > > > > > but in fact have an agenda of your own. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am a neutral party and unaware of the truth or untruth > of > > > your > > > > > > > allegations, but until they are addressed publically by > the > > > > > parties > > > > > > > involved, then further allegations appears to be mere > muck- > > > raking > > > > > and > > > > > > > is unseemly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would ask for you to keep your questions & tone > respectful > > > until > > > > > > > the serious allegations you raise can be addressed by the > > > esteemed > > > > > > > people they are leveled against. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If your allegations are later determined to be founded, > then > > > we > > > > > will > > > > > > > thank you for your diligence. Until that time our > principles > > > > > demand > > > > > > > that we hear from the parties these allegations concern. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Truth is the Highest Religion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From professorjaya@yahoo.com Thu Apr 24 14:10:23 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: professorjaya@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 66864 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2008 21:10:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2008 21:10:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web65513.mail.ac4.yahoo.com) (76.13.9.57) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 2008 21:10:21 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 86745 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Apr 2008 21:10:19 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: H9rLD34VM1lwahwVQT.Jkq8QHojcUlYNQaQwHECV X-Received: from [198.188.96.2] by web65513.mail.ac4.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 14:10:19 PDT Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 14:10:19 -0700 (PDT) To: Theos-World MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <523270.67260.qm@web65513.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 76.13.9.57 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Jayananda Hiranandani Subject: T. S. President's Election - 2008 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=136023466; y=8qdzWDodRn4sIoyYLYdZqGa-4wreEsoarZYrpc577Or9DGo_hk50kg X-Yahoo-Profile: professorjaya Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43663 Dear Everyone: There have been many messages on the above subject. I wish to supplement as follows: Firstly, some people have stated the need for the young . Let us examine this from the standpoint of theosophical concepts. What is meant by young? Is young a good criterion for us to benefit from the ocean of wisdom? Many of us, at least I, determine young by the chronological age in this incarnation. Whereas, the evolutionary stage of a soul can be determined by not the physical age in this incarnation, but by a study of past incarnations through occult investigations of akashic records . I wish to ask those who want young leadership to state whether they are doing it on basis of occult investigations or not. If they are doing on the basis of occult investigations, then congratulations to them, not only from the theosophical world but other similar types of interested people. They, these occult investigators, can do a lot of good and our third object will indeed serve the humanity and the animal, plant and mineral kingdoms. For people like me who are light years away form the occult, the chronological age in this incarnation is the only criterion . Thus, I have to fall on the characteristics in this incarnation. For the T.S. President, there are three groups of functions. For any candidate, they should be weighed. The first group of functions is to give lectures and meet people In this area to deliver the benefit of Theosophy in a good way ,one should have not only book knowledge but should have lived and practiced it. I can attest to this from my similar experience in engineering as I have practiced it and taught it. Being a good lecturer of theosophy is a necessary requirement, but it is is hardly sufficient in light of the other two for the post of the President. The second group of functions is managing people issues within groups and between groups. This group of functions is vital to the well being of the organisation. Harmony within and between groups will enable less energy spent on friction and more energy on the main purpose of the T. S. The third group of functions is to run the headquarters as a successful enterprise. This has to be successful not only in the financial sense but also in meeting the external challenges. These challenges can only be understood and met by having an intimate and first-hand knowledge of the environment. For all the three groups of functions, Dr. Radha Burnier has not only her experience as the President, not only her experience as the General Secretary of the Indian Section, but also the experience inherited from her father. Her father started his T. S. work under Dr. Besant. He was Dr. Arundale's Vice President. Earlier he was, if my information is correct, the Treasurer and the Recording Secretary (now re-designated as International Secretary). He worked very closely with Mr. Jinarajadasa. This has placed at Dr. Burnier's disposal not only her experience as the T. S. President, but also of the earlier Presidents right back to Dr. Besant. Thanking you for your kind consideration. Yours cordially, Jayananda H. Hiranandani --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Thu Apr 24 14:19:56 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 19511 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2008 21:19:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2008 21:19:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.241) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 2008 21:19:54 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id d31so874086and.103 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 14:19:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.93.12 with SMTP id q12mr6224296anb.34.1209071994224; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 14:19:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 14:19:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:19:54 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <523270.67260.qm@web65513.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <523270.67260.qm@web65513.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.241 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World T. S. President's Election - 2008 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=WVCgLxFPXqPZ83jR9JAtcpsh18Wzso0XuECNGbK18S8wlcZhnUw Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43664 Thanks for your thoughtful message. I hope members around the world read this message and better informed, members are, better for the society. Two issues are currently under discussion. One is how the nomination and electioneering has been developing. Second is the fitness of the candidates to hold the office. Third is the long-term question of young leadership. After the elections are over, we will see its after effects, which under the current circumstances may be more important in the longer-term and no one should be surprised if the after effects are more serious and long lasting than the elections. Today, we all should be happy that we have access to Internet medium which helps all of us, Internationally and instantaneously share news, exchange information and opinions at very little cost which was not feasible in pre Internet days. mkr On 4/24/08, Jayananda Hiranandani wrote: > > Dear Everyone: > > There have been many messages on the above subject. I wish to supplement as > follows: > > Firstly, some people have stated the need for the young . Let us examine > this from the standpoint of theosophical concepts. What is meant by young? > Is young a good criterion for us to benefit from the ocean of wisdom? > > Many of us, at least I, determine young by the chronological age in this > incarnation. Whereas, the evolutionary stage of a soul can be determined by > not the physical age in this incarnation, but by a study of past > incarnations through occult investigations of akashic records . I wish to > ask those who want young leadership to state whether they are doing it on > basis of occult investigations or not. If they are doing on the basis of > occult investigations, then congratulations to them, not only from the > theosophical world but other similar types of interested people. They, these > occult investigators, can do a lot of good and our third object will indeed > serve the humanity and the animal, plant and mineral kingdoms. > > For people like me who are light years away form the occult, the > chronological age in this incarnation is the only criterion . Thus, I have > to fall on the characteristics in this incarnation. > > For the T.S. President, there are three groups of functions. For any > candidate, they should be weighed. > > The first group of functions is to give lectures and meet people In this > area to deliver the benefit of Theosophy in a good way ,one should have not > only book knowledge but should have lived and practiced it. I can attest to > this from my similar experience in engineering as I have practiced it and > taught it. Being a good lecturer of theosophy is a necessary requirement, > but it is is hardly sufficient in light of the other two for the post of the > President. > > The second group of functions is managing people issues within groups and > between groups. This group of functions is vital to the well being of the > organisation. Harmony within and between groups will enable less energy > spent on friction and more energy on the main purpose of the T. S. > > The third group of functions is to run the headquarters as a successful > enterprise. This has to be successful not only in the financial sense but > also in meeting the external challenges. These challenges can only be > understood and met by having an intimate and first-hand knowledge of the > environment. > > For all the three groups of functions, Dr. Radha Burnier has not only her > experience as the President, not only her experience as the General > Secretary of the Indian Section, but also the experience inherited from her > father. Her father started his T. S. work under Dr. Besant. He was Dr. > Arundale's Vice President. Earlier he was, if my information is correct, the > Treasurer and the Recording Secretary (now re-designated as International > Secretary). He worked very closely with Mr. Jinarajadasa. This has placed at > Dr. Burnier's disposal not only her experience as the T. S. President, but > also of the earlier Presidents right back to Dr. Besant. > > Thanking you for your kind consideration. > > Yours cordially, > Jayananda H. Hiranandani > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it > now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jokelap@dnainternet.net Thu Apr 24 14:29:23 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: jokelap@dnainternet.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 76877 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2008 21:29:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2008 21:29:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.dnainternet.fi) (87.94.96.108) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 2008 21:29:22 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (223-243.adsl.lpoy.dnainternet.fi [78.27.77.243]) by smtp1.dnainternet.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C21AC918 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 00:29:20 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <4810FBB0.2030505@dnainternet.net> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 00:29:20 +0300 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: <523270.67260.qm@web65513.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <523270.67260.qm@web65513.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 87.94.96.108 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Jokela Petri Subject: Re: Theos-World T. S. President's Election - 2008 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=281705993; y=w6tS7mlVxeBnbodYgNPOaaD7YyqkPVJmI65BDkZ4Ye93yiwPwiDI X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43665 Following your logic: As Johna Algeo has been working with Radha Burnier, he should be voted next international president? Well, maybe votes of every country should be cancelled because of the amount of the propaganda all around the world. PJ Jayananda Hiranandani kirjoitti: > > Dear Everyone: > > There have been many messages on the above subject. I wish to > supplement as follows: > > Firstly, some people have stated the need for the young . Let us > examine this from the standpoint of theosophical concepts. What is > meant by young? Is young a good criterion for us to benefit from the > ocean of wisdom? > > Many of us, at least I, determine young by the chronological age in > this incarnation. Whereas, the evolutionary stage of a soul can be > determined by not the physical age in this incarnation, but by a study > of past incarnations through occult investigations of akashic records > . I wish to ask those who want young leadership to state whether they > are doing it on basis of occult investigations or not. If they are > doing on the basis of occult investigations, then congratulations to > them, not only from the theosophical world but other similar types of > interested people. They, these occult investigators, can do a lot of > good and our third object will indeed serve the humanity and the > animal, plant and mineral kingdoms. > > For people like me who are light years away form the occult, the > chronological age in this incarnation is the only criterion . Thus, I > have to fall on the characteristics in this incarnation. > > For the T.S. President, there are three groups of functions. For any > candidate, they should be weighed. > > The first group of functions is to give lectures and meet people In > this area to deliver the benefit of Theosophy in a good way ,one > should have not only book knowledge but should have lived and > practiced it. I can attest to this from my similar experience in > engineering as I have practiced it and taught it. Being a good > lecturer of theosophy is a necessary requirement, but it is is hardly > sufficient in light of the other two for the post of the President. > > The second group of functions is managing people issues within groups > and between groups. This group of functions is vital to the well being > of the organisation. Harmony within and between groups will enable > less energy spent on friction and more energy on the main purpose of > the T. S. > > The third group of functions is to run the headquarters as a > successful enterprise. This has to be successful not only in the > financial sense but also in meeting the external challenges. These > challenges can only be understood and met by having an intimate and > first-hand knowledge of the environment. > > For all the three groups of functions, Dr. Radha Burnier has not only > her experience as the President, not only her experience as the > General Secretary of the Indian Section, but also the experience > inherited from her father. Her father started his T. S. work under Dr. > Besant. He was Dr. Arundale's Vice President. Earlier he was, if my > information is correct, the Treasurer and the Recording Secretary (now > re-designated as International Secretary). He worked very closely with > Mr. Jinarajadasa. This has placed at Dr. Burnier's disposal not only > her experience as the T. S. President, but also of the earlier > Presidents right back to Dr. Besant. > > Thanking you for your kind consideration. > > Yours cordially, > Jayananda H. Hiranandani > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try > it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > From mkr777@gmail.com Thu Apr 24 16:50:29 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 75552 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2008 23:50:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Apr 2008 23:50:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.251) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 2008 23:50:26 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b15so839005ana.112 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:50:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.140.1 with SMTP id n1mr114874and.144.1209081025806; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:50:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:50:25 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.251 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS President Election - Help!!! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=AQbCRWiqU5puu3jCmizle5HFhNsmGa7uS9PWF9Z5ysk4JFCy8dk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43666 Does anyone has a copy of current rules governing the election of international president? If so, pl post it here or e-mail me offlist. Thanks. M K Ramadoss [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From anton_rozman@yahoo.com Thu Apr 24 23:33:42 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: anton_rozman@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 81242 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2008 06:33:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Apr 2008 06:33:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n13.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.140) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Apr 2008 06:33:39 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.89] by n13.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Apr 2008 06:33:39 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t5.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Apr 2008 06:33:39 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Apr 2008 06:33:39 -0000 Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 06:33:37 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.103.140 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 209.73.164.226 From: "Anton Rozman" Subject: Re: TS President Election - Help!!! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=192242904; y=7Si-l9-EOaFlfZZ-shhSNb7Oz_znDawIN3GLo279q2p8hHw8B2Aj X-Yahoo-Profile: anton_rozman X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43667 RULES AND REGULATIONS FOR THE MANAGEMENT OF THE ASSOCIATION=20 NAMED 'THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY', ADYAR, MADRAS=20 http://www.katinkahesselink.net/his/rules.htm You can find the proceedings regarding the election of the President=20 under the Rule 10 and in the Appendix. Anton --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, MKR wrote: > > Does anyone has a copy of current rules governing the election of > international president? If so, pl post it here or e-mail me=20 offlist. > Thanks. >=20 > M K Ramadoss >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > From raquel_rpj@yahoo.es Fri Apr 25 02:54:23 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: raquel_rpj@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60201 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2008 09:54:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Apr 2008 09:54:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web26512.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.177.59) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Apr 2008 09:54:20 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 12287 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Apr 2008 09:54:19 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: DC7ERgAVM1l4n3t8Yu_vv2qSYUrkN9u9rPrPbxDP1EgvK.PKj8OAZVWNQwSXG5lqGiOu2BJnjAaS_nGqVghp2oYClEaXfEesxELLq8U8lS9qfEN4E9Lao9L1Two- X-Received: from [77.208.67.193] by web26512.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:54:18 CEST Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:54:18 +0200 (CEST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <042420081855.16208.4810D791000D6BED00003F502216557996CDCDCDD39C0A0B070A01099ABE@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <232452.11314.qm@web26512.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 217.146.177.59 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Raquel=20Rodr=EDguez?= Subject: RE: Theos-World Re: Music, the language of the Soul X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=319886574; y=wkVg7LBI_6amC8PU22BtyKkqrV7CS14yIbuJxc7PO5SP7soHhg X-Yahoo-Profile: raquel_rpj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43668 John, thank you for the link You have touched deep in my memory, Being 7 years old I entered in the co= nservatory school of music in Segovia, something like a national university= for music in this country. On that time, the teachers where the formers of= the military band from the military academy of Segovia (a bit rough people= ). Being a child eager and curious for all knowledge I got amazed by the re= lation with music and mathematics and really desire to understand their mys= tery connection. Things did not came out as I expected then, but a silver f= lute is always with me. For seasons, I pick it up and practice, for years I= hardly touch it. Days sleep through my fingers at high speed carried on by my undiscipline= d Mind, and the unbalance of the struggles to settle my earthly live on the= material plane. Although everything is bright and new. So much still to be discovered. =20=20=20 Best regards =20=20=20 Raquel =20=20 Augoeides-222@comcast.net escribi=F3: Raquel, Hi, nice to hear your love of the flute, a very ancient instrument. I want = to take this opportunity to give a link on Music and a recent Scientific an= nouncement. Scientists are claiming new findings on the Geometry of Music : >>>http://www.physorg.com/news127659537.html<<< Regards, John -------------- Original message --------------=20 From: Raquel Rodr=EDguez=20 To become the instrument oneself of That, which is everywhere, looking for = a channel to crystalize. Nevertheless at this time of my life I've got to the conclusion, that both,= intuition an study are necessary. Discipline in practice on scales will gi= ve the musician the opportunity for improvisation. Myself, both a gifted and frustrated flute player, how often I have seen a = beautiful melody using my being to expres itself becoming trunked by the cl= umsiness of my fingers.=20 Also the didactics inherit in the extremely boring practice of scales, led = oneself to a good rapport of self personal unattachment very beneficial for= further improvisation. My English is so awful, I don=B4t know if I=B4m expressing myself correctly= . I believe there are times for improvisation, there are times for deep study= and these both are absolutely personal and everyone should find their own = moment to make an equilibrium between them. There both should be joyful. I love both Theosophy and Music. Might live be joyful to all beings Best regards Raquel Martin escribi=F3: Nice one Raquel! This what Theosophy should be about, mu till you get sic of it :-) What's the need for knowledge, Akasha is full of it, better fill the head with Akasha instead of books...and then concentrate on music, its the universal language both dis- and harmonic. That's what Nature is about isn't it? Harmony! Balance! The middle way between extremes not the razorblade...unless you want to become a buddha in 5 minutes. --- Raquel Rodr=EDguez wrote: > Thank you Martin for the link. I hope you also enjoy > this: > 1 Giant Leap > http://www.whataboutme.tv/ >=20 > Martin escribi=F3: > Well here is the vegetable orchestra for a > start: >=20 > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DhpfYt7vRHuY >=20 > Brotherhood =3D=20 > having a good time, > play some music, > ...and eat the instruments after! >=20 > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Martin" > wrote: > > > >=20 > > It's not ready as of yet but to get an idea for > now, check out the=20 > > DVD Gypsy Caravan: trailer here: > > http://www.a-film.nl/trailer.php?id=3D1560 > > This movie showed me more brotherhood in 2 hours, > than I have=20 > shared=20 > > the last 30 years with theosophists... > >=20 > >=20 > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Antonio/Tony > None=20 > > wrote: > > > > > > Yes, absoloutly. > > >=20 > > > Martin wrote: Yes will=20 > > link you to it when its readx. My friend is > > > jewish btw and he respects the work of the > others. So > > > only if they agree I will give it free...:-) > > >=20 > > > --- Antonio/Tony None=20 > > > wrote: > > >=20 > > > > Any chance of a listen? I am working with a > lot of > > > > arabic sounds at the minute. Would be > interesting to > > > > hear what its all about! > > > >=20 > > > > Cheers. > > > >=20 > > > > Martin wrote:=20 > > > > I just got this email from a friend, > > > > which proves to me, music has no=20 > > > > prejudice :-) > > > >=20 > > > > Hello friends, > > > >=20 > > > > As you know I live in Israel, the 2 weeks I'm > > > > Mixing here (here=20 > > > > means at my studio) > > > > a new disk for an Arab Palestinian, a great > guy,=20 > > > > and a very good=20 > > > > musician !! > > > > Most of the music was recorded in Amman > (Jordan)=20 > > > > some of the=20 > > > > musician playing there > > > > were brought specaially from Egyps (as they > are > > > > playing authentic=20 > > > > rare arab instruments) > > > > some tracks recorded in Nazareth, no one of > the > > > > musicians (exept of=20 > > > > the guy I'm working with) > > > > knows a thing about the other musicians - and > of > > > > caurse how the music=20 > > > > will come out - as each Musician was playing > only > > > > with 1 instrument=20 > > > > prerecorded as a guide line.. > > > > I must say it's very special, all the > > > > situation,from all=20 > > > > aspects..... and so is the music !!!! > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > Yahoo! for Good helps you make a difference > > > >=20 > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > > removed] > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > No Cost - Get a month of Blockbuster Total > Access now. Sweet=20 > deal=20 > > for Yahoo! users and friends.=20 > > > > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text1.com > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > --------------------------------- > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail. > > > A Smarter Inbox. > > >=20 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > --------------------------------- >=20 > Enviado desde Correo Yahoo! > La bandeja de entrada m=E1s inteligente. >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] >=20 >=20 __________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and=20 know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt= =3DAhu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ --------------------------------- Enviado desde Correo Yahoo! La bandeja de entrada m=E1s inteligente. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 --------------------------------- Yahoo! Solidario. Intercambia los objetos que ya no necesitas y ayuda a mantener un entorno m= =E1s ecol=F3gico. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Fri Apr 25 04:27:14 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 34424 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2008 11:27:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Apr 2008 11:27:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.246) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Apr 2008 11:27:09 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id d31so860563and.113 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 04:27:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.101.68.10 with SMTP id v10mr7386390ank.17.1209122826283; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 04:27:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 04:27:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 06:27:06 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.246 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS Election Rules - Keeping Members Uptodate X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=7-7gawNe7yC3J9w2hAicwO_sQBz0AI6iM8omyfPLW_RWIke9hHk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43669 I have been trying to find out if the TS Rules are available online and a kind theosophist pointed to me its availability at Katinka's personal Website. None of the websites of TS or any of the National Websites seem to have them. Rules on Katinka's website may not be uptodate since there is no publically available info about changes that have taken place over the years. Making the rules easily accessible to members is important and very easy in this Internet age. All you need is an additional webpage. We have talked about how young the current nominees are!!! May be if membership was more exposed to the rules and there is a move to get a younger member nominated, we may have names of one or more younger members in the President Election Ballot. Aside from the rules, transparency of the decisions of the General Council cannot but help. I have not seen any effort made at any level to keep the membership informed of going ons in the GC. Even public organizations have ways of protecting the confidentiality of decisions where confidentiality of details is needed. All other policy decisions should be shared with membership. It is very easy to do it. Just add a webpage. mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Fri Apr 25 04:43:17 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 8652 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2008 11:43:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Apr 2008 11:43:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.248) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Apr 2008 11:43:13 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c37so996856anc.85 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 04:43:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.101.67.15 with SMTP id u15mr7417401ank.19.1209123793229; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 04:43:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 04:43:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 06:43:13 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.248 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS President Nominations X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=Y6H037gKSoV3EIrfYUoLG_0OpQkbJ2lnK1fMqIBPxNp9keWQC-A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43670 Rules in Katinka's Website State: (My quoting the following does not violate copyrights -- there are some misguided old members of TS who may be paranoid about copyright violation!!!!) "c) Any member of the Society in good standing, having been a member for at least ten consecutive years immediately preceding his nomination, may be nominated. Each member of the General Council who is a General Secretary, shall be entitled to make three nominations and shall consult his Governing Body before making nominations. The President shall be entitled to make three nominations. The Vice-President, Secretary, Treasurer and each Additional Member of the General Council shall be entitled to make one nomination. The nominator shall be responsible for ensuring that his nomination(s) reaches the Secretary within ten weeks of the date of the call for nomina- tion. The nominee shall be responsible for notifying the Secretary, within the above-mentioned period of his acceptance of nomination. One written consent shall suffice for all nominations for that nominee." Since upto three nominations can be made by GS's, it would be interesting to see if any younger person (younger than 78yrs) got any nominations. It also would give some idea if there are any potential successors. The mortality rate for anyone over 75yrs is quite high. mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Fri Apr 25 04:55:55 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 92630 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2008 11:55:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Apr 2008 11:55:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wx-out-0506.google.com) (66.249.82.230) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Apr 2008 11:55:53 -0000 X-Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s14so3730287wxc.26 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 04:55:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.251.5 with SMTP id y5mr1121433anh.126.1209124549458; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 04:55:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 04:55:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 06:55:49 -0500 To: theos-l@yahoogroups.com, theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: X-Originating-IP: 66.249.82.230 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: [theos-l] Tone etc X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=js5T0LYNcSHWdEAz4QeoHPkCznAHlDjfrPPTaxOsJ2rhEgttXCU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43671 Dear Brothers: As I have said before, a simple free phone call to National Secretary/President will settle the issue. If anyone has any information contradictory or corrective of my msgs, I welcome them. More information that members have before balloting, better informed they will be and will make the right choice. Finally, I believe Truth will Triumph. mkr On 4/25/08, kenosis_ao wrote: > > Sir and people in this forum > > BTW:I am not implying in any way that our President is not fit and able > to continue; on the contrary, I would assume that she is able to make > that determination for herself. > > What I AM doing is not allowing someone to make asserions 'without > evidence'; my purpose is to provide the same standard as would be > required were this not a cyber-forum but one meeting in-person. > > Brother MKR has not met that standard. If he can, then proceed upon > that basis. > > But I believe, unlike his assertions in previous postings here, that > the members of the Theosophical Society can make up their own minds > when presented with facts and not mere assertions. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Fri Apr 25 05:48:13 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 82751 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2008 12:48:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Apr 2008 12:48:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wx-out-0506.google.com) (66.249.82.234) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Apr 2008 12:48:06 -0000 X-Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id h31so3710695wxd.11 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 05:48:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.13.2 with SMTP id 2mr7461791anm.137.1209127682784; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 05:48:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 05:48:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 07:48:02 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 66.249.82.234 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=O2xHhZ52hh5oLqW9e795TOQHrpfSU_SEg8KIsla8Sg2nDmOt4Cs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43672 Here is a msg and reply that appeared on theos-l. I thought readers here may be interested. mkr ============ Sir: I will repeat what I have already said before. Just make a five minute phone call to National HQ and it should settle it. Please send copies of this and all the messages to whomsover you want. Again, I am very confident that Truth will Triumph. mkr ==================== On 4/25/08, kenosis_ao wrote: Sir, The people on this forum and on others have had ample time to respond to your allegations in support of what you have said but have chosen not to support you either here, nor on the other forum. This is very telling. As you are the accuser, the onus is upon you to supply evidence in support of your allegations, which you have been unable to do. It is simply not good enough to keep asserting that the documentation exists and that we can go to a 3rd party to get it - this does not prove its existence and nobody here has backed your claims in this regard either. At this time, unless and until you provide evidence otherwise, and taking into account the proven good name and previous work of the Vice President Algeo and Mrs Bland over a period of decades, I rule, in this 'court of public opinion' which YOU opened, that you are OUT OF LINE in your allegations. Again, the Truth will prevail; loud proclamations of evidence are NOT evidence. So that VP Algeo is aware of your allegations and can choose legal action should he choose, I will contact him with the contents of this thread and that of the other forum that you have raised, along with the text of the emails you have sent out. The truth will prevail, and in a court of law, there are proper rules of evidence, rather than of assertion. You have provided a paper tiger and attempted to besmirch a reputation. As a final gesture, I would ask you to produce, HERE, any documentation that you can to support your assertions; I would say that 48hours is enough time to get to a copy centre and scan documents and post them. Otherwise, the members here will need to assume that you are attempting to influence the election in some way, before the membership have received their ballots. There is a very large gap between making assertions and providing proof and you have not even attempted it. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com Fri Apr 25 07:25:09 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 33173 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2008 14:25:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Apr 2008 14:25:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n9.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.136) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Apr 2008 14:25:06 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.88] by n9.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Apr 2008 14:25:05 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t4.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Apr 2008 14:25:05 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Apr 2008 14:25:05 -0000 Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 14:25:05 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <987197.43866.qm@web52612.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.103.136 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 209.73.164.201 From: "christinaleestemaker" Subject: Re: Theos-World TS President Elections -- Some Thoughts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162317756; y=lGhaG-Mq0QrzAeJvx4QxJG2qM6vkgMk44aTQILvLIPq-wcdXh3YIVlfTN_87rmw X-Yahoo-Profile: christinaleestemaker X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43673 Hahaha Burnier is the best protected one.- Christina -- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Martin wrote: > > Enter Algeo in the first line>>>> Enter Burnier in the > second line>>>> Click on "VISUALIZAR">>>> Enjoy ;-) >=20 > http://www.tatuagemdaboa.com.br/ >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > --- Drpsionic@... wrote: >=20 > > A "world wide religious organization led by > > hypocritical leaders who do not practice what they > > preach?"=C2=A0 I thought that was the definition of a > > religious organization! > >=20 > > Actually, let us be honest, the Adyar TS is a world > > wide organization of spiritual anarchists to whom > > leaders are pretty much irrelevant except for making > > sure the HQ grounds are kept up.=C2=A0 In fact, I > > remember years ago, writing a congratulatory letter > > to John reminding him that the only real job the TSA > > president had that mattered was making sure that the > > Olcott lawn was mowed.=C2=A0 When I went out to Olcott > > after he took office, he greeted me laughing and > > told me that he wanted to mow the lawn but Adele > > would not let him.=C2=A0 For all his many faults, John > > Algeo does have one thing that Radha never has even > > come close to showing--a sense of humor! > >=20 > > Chuck the Heretic > >=20 > >=20 > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: MKR > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; > > theos-L@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 8:54 pm > > Subject: Theos-World TS President Elections -- Some > > Thoughts > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > Everyone in the TS knows its Motto =E2=80" "There is No > > Religion Higher Than > > ruth". > > When members were told by the leaders that Radha > > Burnier's mental and > > hysical health were such that she will not be able > > to effectively function > > s the President, they knew it was false or should > > have known to be false. > > hen the recently, two doctors who examined her > > certified her to be fit, any > > oubts should have been put to rest. > > Justice requires all those who put out such false > > information meant to > > islead gullible and uninformed members to vote for > > John Algeo, should > > ecant their earlier opinion =E2=80" after all it was > > their opinion and as none is > > physician who has examined her personally. > > All these members involved in the nomination > > activities are supposed to be > > ong-term members dedicated to the principles and > > practice of Theosophical > > rinciples. When you google about theosophy and > > hypocrisy and injustice, you > > ill find the following from HPB: > > "Above all, the duty of every member is to fight > > against cant, hypocrisy, > > nd injustice in every shape=E2=80=A6 > > A derogatory or slanderous statement made against a > > fellow theosophist in > > he presence of a member, shall not be permitted by > > him to pass without > > rotest, unless he knows it is true, in which case he > > should remain silent." > > When putting these two side by side, any > > rookie/novice member who has been > > eading what has been going on will wonder if TS is > > another world wide > > eligious organization led by hypocritical leaders > > who do not practice what > > hey preach. They seem to behave like ordinary men > > and women who say they > > elieve one thing and do something entirely > > different. > > The membership of TS as a percentage of world > > population has been going > > own. In this Internet age, when prospective members > > see what we preach and > > hat we practice, it is going to have almost fatal > > influence. Is this what > > e members and leaders want? > > I just wanted to share some of my thoughts since I > > think what is going on is > > oing to negatively affect the organization for years > > to come, unless we > > uickly set things right and demonstrate we practice > > what we preach.It is > > hat simple. > > mkr > >=20 > > Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >=20 > > ----------------------------------- > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > Individual Email | Traditional > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > >=20 > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 ___________________________________________________________________________= _________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and=20 > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http:// mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=3DAhu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > From mkr777@gmail.com Fri Apr 25 07:44:25 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 3036 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2008 14:44:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Apr 2008 14:44:22 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wx-out-0506.google.com) (66.249.82.225) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Apr 2008 14:44:22 -0000 X-Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id t11so4347129wxc.23 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 07:44:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.12.1 with SMTP id 1mr7750469anl.22.1209134662070; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 07:44:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 07:44:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:44:21 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <084b01c8a624$99fa99b0$15113456@khidr> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <07ca01c8a620$52ebd290$15113456@khidr> <084b01c8a624$99fa99b0$15113456@khidr> X-Originating-IP: 66.249.82.225 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World TS President Elections -- Some Thoughts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=NNMHoJ85e7SYoXyC8ZJgUt4-7Pto9ILbY2ABouRYIpa-DGZiMg8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43674 Anyone who has any doubts about the authenticity of the material I have discussed, can just make one call to your National Secretary/President satisfy yourself. If anyone has any contradictory or better information, feel free to post it here. This will allow everyone to get correct facts and judge for themselves. mkr On 4/24/08, Morten Nymann Olesen wrote: > > To MKR and all > > My views are: > > Well thanks. > > Will you in a more honest or precise search after the truth - provide this > list with fascimiles of the letters and e-mails you mention you have > received about Radha Burnier, and John Alego etc.? > > H. P. Blavatsky said: > "The Society founded to remedy the glaring evils of Christianity, to shun > bigotry and intolerance, cant and superstition and to cultivate real > universal love extending even to the dumb brute". > (The Collected Writings of H. P. Blavatsky, vol. 7, p.246) > > Sometimes I think, that the theosophists in India think differently than > the theosophists in US or EU and for instance even the Sufis of the Middle > East, because they grow from different cultures and backgrounds. And I find, > that this is vital when talking about organisational issues and TS. > > - - - - - - - - > > M. Sufilight > > Master KH wrote in a Mahatma Letter: > For the opposition represents enormous vested interests, and they have > enthusiastic help from the Dugpas -- in Bhootan and the Vatican! > (Here is all of Mahtama Letter, No. 55. Dugpas are the same as selfish > Magicians.) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: MKR > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 5:47 PM > Subject: Re: Theos-World TS President Elections -- Some Thoughts > > You are on target. > > In the information age, more info merrier. > > First when printing was invented, it made info previously not accessible to > masses. > > Now TV and Internet does the same thing in a larger global instantaneous > way. > > As they say, let the facts come out and let the chips fall where they may. > > mkr > > On 4/24/08, Morten Nymann Olesen > > wrote: > > > > To all readers > > > > My views are: > > > > H. P. Blavatsky says: > > IS DENUNCIATION A DUTY? > > "He who objects to having his views controverted and criticized must not > > write for Lucifer. " ..."Moreover, we have given good proofs of our > > impartiality. We published articles and letters criticizing not alone our > > personal theosophical and philosophical views, but discussing on subjects > > directly concerned with our personal honour and reputation; reviving the > > infamous calumnies in which not simple doubts, but distinctly formulated > > charges of dishonesty were cast into our teeth and our private character > > was > > torn to shreds (Vide "A Glance at Theosophy from the Outside", Lucifer > for > > October, 1888). And if the editor will never shrink from what she > considers > > > > her duty to her readers, and that she is prepared to throw every possible > > light upon mooted questions in order that truth should shine bright and > > hideous lies and superstitions be shown under their true colours - why > > should our contributors prove themselves so thin-skinned?" > > ( IS DENUNCIATION A DUTY? by H. P. Blavatsky - Lucifer Magazine 1888) > > > > - - - - - - - - > > > > M. Sufilight > > > > H. P. Blavatsky said: > > "The Society founded to remedy the glaring evils of Christianity, to shun > > bigotry and intolerance, cant and superstition and to cultivate real > > universal love extending even to the dumb brute". > > (The Collected Writings of H. P. Blavatsky, vol. 7, p.246) > > > > Master KH wrote in a Mahatma Letter: > > For the opposition represents enormous vested interests, and they have > > enthusiastic help from the Dugpas -- in Bhootan and the Vatican! > > (Here is all of Mahtama Letter, No. 55. Dugpas are the same as selfish > > Magicians.) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "MKR" > > > To: 40yahoogroups.com>>; < > > theos-L@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com>> > > Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 3:54 AM > > Subject: Theos-World TS President Elections -- Some Thoughts > > > > Everyone in the TS knows its Motto - "There is No Religion Higher Than > > Truth". > > > > When members were told by the leaders that Radha Burnier's mental and > > physical health were such that she will not be able to effectively > function > > as the President, they knew it was false or should have known to be > false. > > When the recently, two doctors who examined her certified her to be fit, > > any > > doubts should have been put to rest. > > > > Justice requires all those who put out such false information meant to > > mislead gullible and uninformed members to vote for John Algeo, should > > recant their earlier opinion - after all it was their opinion and as none > > is > > a physician who has examined her personally. > > > > All these members involved in the nomination activities are supposed to > be > > long-term members dedicated to the principles and practice of > Theosophical > > Principles. When you google about theosophy and hypocrisy and injustice, > > you > > will find the following from HPB: > > > > "Above all, the duty of every member is to fight against cant, hypocrisy, > > and injustice in every shape. > > > > A derogatory or slanderous statement made against a fellow theosophist in > > the presence of a member, shall not be permitted by him to pass without > > protest, unless he knows it is true, in which case he should remain > > silent." > > > > When putting these two side by side, any rookie/novice member who has > been > > reading what has been going on will wonder if TS is another world wide > > religious organization led by hypocritical leaders who do not practice > what > > they preach. They seem to behave like ordinary men and women who say they > > believe one thing and do something entirely different. > > > > The membership of TS as a percentage of world population has been going > > down. In this Internet age, when prospective members see what we preach > and > > what we practice, it is going to have almost fatal influence. Is this > what > > we members and leaders want? > > > > I just wanted to share some of my thoughts since I think what is going on > > is > > going to negatively affect the organization for years to come, unless we > > quickly set things right and demonstrate we practice what we preach.It is > > that simple. > > > > mkr > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Fri Apr 25 09:22:58 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 68749 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2008 16:22:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Apr 2008 16:22:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wx-out-0506.google.com) (66.249.82.228) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Apr 2008 16:22:55 -0000 X-Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s11so3357061wxc.17 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:22:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.214.15 with SMTP id m15mr7909832ang.58.1209140574996; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:22:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:22:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:22:54 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 66.249.82.228 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=bDjxzm2UpYO5vhBlfCt8wWFVhB_WM-xwu98mMaUBSIiajaccYmE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43675 In the election of International President, the issue of Radha Burnier's health has become central. We have seen how her health was reported to be good early last year and then in the end of last year doubts were cast by some National Secretaries about her physical and mental health and her fitness to carryon the duties of the President. To allay these doubts, early this month, two physicians declared Radha Burnier fully fit, both mentally and physically. I discussed these on this maillist. However, some readers wanted to see scanned copies of originals to convince themselves about the veracity of the certifications. Here is a very easy way to confirm the above facts. Anyone interested can send e-mail to candidates, International Officers, and National Secretaries(Presidents). The email addresses are available in the Adyar Website. Any responses received can be posted here for the benefit of all of us. Multiple source verification is the norm in the journalistic field. MKR [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Fri Apr 25 09:33:34 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 29281 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2008 16:33:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Apr 2008 16:33:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.240) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Apr 2008 16:33:32 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c16so883887ana.54 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:33:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.101.69.6 with SMTP id w6mr7910762ank.92.1209141208992; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:33:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:33:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:33:28 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.240 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS Elections X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=pZVqgiQF_PVGsCpO4DiSYDlVtV5PHWra5Z9nYKRzwsnxU2_2_I8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43676 Here is an interesting website on various material on TS Elections: http://teozofija.info/Teozofsko_gibanje/Elections_2008.htm mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Fri Apr 25 13:39:15 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 17343 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2008 20:39:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Apr 2008 20:39:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wr-out-0506.google.com) (64.233.184.239) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Apr 2008 20:39:12 -0000 X-Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id c37so3311075wra.26 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:39:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.33.11 with SMTP id g11mr3559772ang.51.1209155951591; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:39:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:39:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:39:11 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 64.233.184.239 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS Elections - Transparency & Communication X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=qhGuIlBR4KnJPTNPBBkABWR3BrNIcUSj-NbL-9JR-vmoKkM8vb4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43677 World of communications changed in early nineties, with use of e-mail, the simplest application in the Internet. Along with that came maillists. One of the keys to motivate members and keep them active is to keep them informed of the going ons and interacting with them as well as the world at large. If one looks at the TS, other than routine periodical publications, where the flow of info is in one direction, the membership has been kept in the dark most of the time. While e-mail was available from early 90s, very little use has been made in membership communication. All you need to do is to go and review how frequently you received any communication from TS. One wonders why. Could it be that fear of the communication becoming two-way, it is easy and cheap to send and receive e-mail, that prevented it being used effectively. One of the most effective interactive means of communication is thru maillists. Theosophical Maillists have been around from early 90s. If you go and look at the archives, you will be amazed. I have not seen any of the officials or their underlings participating in any of them. One wonders why. Also a question arises is whether there was an unwritten understanding between the leaders and their underlings, not to show up and discuss issues on these maillists. You may be told -- we have websites. Again the communication is one-way. Also how do you bring people to the website. No one has really figured it out. One thing is for sure. If there is any scandal, then lots of visits can be expended. So, in spite of the incessant talk about Internet and asking for donations to support Internet, the effective utilization for the purposes listed above is non-exisitent. In today's world, transparency issue is becoming important and necessary. A lot of upfront transparency might have helped to avoid the current situation with elections. Next is the communication with membership. These have not been effectively addressed by TS Internationally and Nationally. With the current mind set of the leadership, it is unlikely to change unless a severe crisis comes down on the organization. mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Fri Apr 25 17:40:47 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 28786 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2008 00:40:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2008 00:40:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.246) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2008 00:40:44 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c31so882384ana.120 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 17:40:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.140.15 with SMTP id n15mr8700982and.87.1209170443661; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 17:40:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 17:40:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 19:40:43 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.246 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Privacy in Internet Era X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=FVRyzftrAb50djJ5AeLrrAPe3yTVXD67IT_SHO0HrCDo9b7usZY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43678 I have been looking at how Internet has intruded on our privacy. A computer expert made a statement that in todays world there is no privacy. All publically available data is indexed and can be accessed by anyone. Some of the basic info is free. Your addresses, phone #, age etc. Your home location is identified. Google has pictures of your home, both Areal as well as street view. Your home size and value is on the Internet. You can also find the names of other members of your home. Marriage and divorce records are on the Internet. So are any law suits or any other litigation. When you chat or post a message, they are archived for ever. Many times what someone said or wrote came back to haunt them at a later date. Due to some statements made, some could not get hired. People can review posted messages and pick up on bits and pieces of personal info and collate them to get a full picture. Private communications can be posted anonymously from far off places and you will never be able to track them. All you need is to look at the enormous spams the we all receive daily. Some time ago, when a private party went to court to prevent newspaper publishing a news item, it was put on the website before courts opened for the day. What is the lesson. If you want to protect your privacy in the West, it is going to be very very difficult. Recently a member here was very defensive about revealing his identity and all that was on the messages was his email address. If he googles himself, he will be in for a great surprise. Thought I should share the above out of general interest. mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Fri Apr 25 18:57:41 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 19399 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2008 01:57:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2008 01:57:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.244) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2008 01:57:38 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c31so1000653anc.123 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:57:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.33.19 with SMTP id g19mr8690214ang.123.1209175057923; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:57:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:57:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 20:57:37 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.244 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS President Election - Help!!! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=o2Qzr93ElrDad215JykS-j1Ze_kFbzPCqe_3bv6hptJ8DWoK64s Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43679 Thanks, Anton. I believe I saw the rules first time when Dr. Alan Bain (now dead) posted it in his website several years ago. I understand that there were changes made in the past couple of years. In spite of my request from anyone on this list who has access to current rules, no one has come forward with any help. I am sure all the GS's have copies in their files. May be keeping membership in the dark is to their benefit and tactics. This is how they succeeded in keeping control in the past. This typifies attitude of "theosophists" who do not practice what they preach. mkr On 4/25/08, Anton Rozman wrote: > > RULES AND REGULATIONS FOR THE MANAGEMENT OF THE ASSOCIATION > NAMED 'THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY', ADYAR, MADRAS > > http://www.katinkahesselink.net/his/rules.htm > > You can find the proceedings regarding the election of the President > under the Rule 10 and in the Appendix. > > Anton > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com , MKR > wrote: > > > > Does anyone has a copy of current rules governing the election of > > international president? If so, pl post it here or e-mail me > offlist. > > Thanks. > > > > M K Ramadoss > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Fri Apr 25 19:00:49 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 84263 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2008 02:00:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2008 02:00:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m21.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.2) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2008 02:00:47 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d4e.25b52d5c (37556) for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 22:00:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from webmail-db07 (webmail-db07.webmail.aol.com [205.188.105.72]) by cia-mb03.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMB035-92b448128cc816e; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 22:00:40 -0400 References: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 22:00:40 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.230.150.8 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36240-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.230.150.8 by webmail-db07.sysops.aol.com (205.188.105.72) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 22:00:40 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA75587677A478-1490-288C@webmail-db07.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.2 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=imkGIyzLmDG8D3WzZ9HCelzm7fiwh2MsTED5Ko563wqUilLG_Q X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43680 In the 30 years she has been president there have always been questions about her mental health, usually from those who heard her speak. :) Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: MKR To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; theos-L@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:22 am Subject: Theos-World TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health In the election of International President, the issue of Radha Burnier's health has become central. We have seen how her health was reported to be good early last year and then in the end of last year doubts were cast by some National Secretaries about her physical and mental health and her fitness to carryon the duties of the President. To allay these doubts, early this month, two physicians declared Radha Burnier fully fit, both mentally and physically. I discussed these on this maillist. However, some readers wanted to see scanned copies of originals to convince themselves about the veracity of the certifications. Here is a very easy way to confirm the above facts. Anyone interested can send e-mail to candidates, International Officers, and National Secretaries(Presidents). The email addresses are available in the Adyar Website. Any responses received can be posted here for the benefit of all of us. Multiple source verification is the norm in the journalistic field. MKR [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Fri Apr 25 19:06:17 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 11157 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2008 02:06:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2008 02:06:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d23.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.137) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2008 02:06:17 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c66.3066df08 (37133) for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 22:06:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from webmail-db07 (webmail-db07.webmail.aol.com [205.188.105.72]) by cia-ma02.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMA027-910d48128e0c22; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 22:06:04 -0400 References: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 22:06:04 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.230.150.8 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36240-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.230.150.8 by webmail-db07.sysops.aol.com (205.188.105.72) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 25 Apr 2008 22:06:04 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA755937D4BDD0-1490-28CD@webmail-db07.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.139.137 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS President Election - Help!!! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=not6oc_8C4P-aTXFmkoNnmwvU-VWlJSd3ZTCzCg87tJKwgYczw X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43681 It is against the rules for Theosophists to practice what they preach.? Fortunately, they never have or no one would be able to stand them. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: MKR To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 8:57 pm Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS President Election - Help!!! Thanks, Anton. I believe I saw the rules first time when Dr. Alan Bain (now dead) posted it in his website several years ago. I understand that there were changes made in the past couple of years. In spite of my request from anyone on this list who has access to current rules, no one has come forward with any help. I am sure all the GS's have copies in their files. May be keeping membership in the dark is to their benefit and tactics. This is how they succeeded in keeping control in the past. This typifies attitude of "theosophists" who do not practice what they preach. mkr On 4/25/08, Anton Rozman wrote: > > RULES AND REGULATIONS FOR THE MANAGEMENT OF THE ASSOCIATION > NAMED 'THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY', ADYAR, MADRAS > > http://www.katinkahesselink.net/his/rules.htm > > You can find the proceedings regarding the election of the President > under the Rule 10 and in the Appendix. > > Anton > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com , MKR > wrote: > > > > Does anyone has a copy of current rules governing the election of > > international president? If so, pl post it here or e-mail me > offlist. > > Thanks. > > > > M K Ramadoss > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Fri Apr 25 20:15:18 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 26517 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2008 03:15:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2008 03:15:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.240) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2008 03:15:16 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c14so1099770anc.13 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 20:15:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.33.19 with SMTP id g19mr8728289ang.123.1209179713223; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 20:15:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Fri, 25 Apr 2008 20:15:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 22:15:13 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.240 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS President Election - Transparency Issue X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=WvaYwNIsYJXJ_KkwmoGfeW8HQJsKSDgZ0uWm_IQOLeP-IDWpofE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43682 Has anyone seen any info on the Election Committe which is responsible for handling the election process? Who are the members and which country they come from and how old they are? Or are they secrets only the GC members are supposed to know? Novices need to be educated if they are interested. How are the voting ballots prepared and how is the quality control enforced so that there is no unconscious mess up in favor one candidate or the other. Any one cares to talk here? mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jokelap@dnainternet.net Fri Apr 25 22:22:03 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: jokelap@dnainternet.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 93162 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2008 05:22:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2008 05:22:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.dnainternet.fi) (87.94.96.112) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2008 05:22:00 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (223-243.adsl.lpoy.dnainternet.fi [78.27.77.243]) by smtp2.dnainternet.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D0FBC8A3 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 08:21:56 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <4812BBF5.6060508@dnainternet.net> Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 08:21:57 +0300 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: <8CA75587677A478-1490-288C@webmail-db07.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8CA75587677A478-1490-288C@webmail-db07.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 87.94.96.112 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Jokela Petri Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=281705993; y=_lNFVRi3JrrJyLMXCfYIGD3yBfUNH_d4JnCdx7ZJS0HEAeSzjHtd X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43683 That´s a pretty rude comment about her. I have heard her speaking so many times. She is one of the best international lecturers of TS. She has done her studies on theosophy very well. One can find that out in her talks. She has lived teachings in practice in the best way she has been able. She has always been very hard worker. Her memory what comes to names of members has been always amazing. I belive she has hold the candel for Theosophy and the Society. Sure I have heard her being tough and demanding boss for those who work at Adyar. But loving kindness attitude has increased on her within last few years. Toward me she has been very loving as well during bad as well during and good times. PJ Drpsionic@aol.com kirjoitti: > > > In the 30 years she has been president there have always been > questions about her mental health, usually from those who heard her > speak. :) > > Chuck the Heretic > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > -----Original Message----- > From: MKR > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ; > theos-L@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:22 am > Subject: Theos-World TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health > > In the election of International President, the issue of Radha Burnier's > health has become central. We have seen how her health was reported to be > good early last year and then in the end of last year doubts were cast by > some National Secretaries about her physical and mental health and her > fitness to carryon the duties of the President. > > To allay these doubts, early this month, two physicians declared Radha > Burnier fully fit, both mentally and physically. I discussed these on this > maillist. However, some readers wanted to see scanned copies of > originals to > convince themselves about the veracity of the certifications. > > Here is a very easy way to confirm the above facts. Anyone interested can > send e-mail to candidates, International Officers, and National > Secretaries(Presidents). The email addresses are available in the Adyar > Website. Any responses received can be posted here for the benefit of > all of > us. Multiple source verification is the norm in the journalistic field. > MKR > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > From anton_rozman@yahoo.com Sat Apr 26 01:04:26 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: anton_rozman@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 63092 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2008 08:04:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2008 08:04:24 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n26c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.218) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2008 08:04:24 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Apr 2008 08:04:24 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Apr 2008 08:04:24 -0000 Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 08:04:22 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.218.67.218 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 209.73.164.201 From: "Anton Rozman" Subject: Theos-World Re: TS President Election - Help!!! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=192242904; y=YQJbj2uA9Scj9tFPjNuG_yim4c6IR9QN4eHTznoLDqn-4wOOQ-t8 X-Yahoo-Profile: anton_rozman X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43684 The Rules and Regulations of the TS have changed a little during the=20 years but essentially they remain the same.=20 But I would dare to bet that if a pool will be made among the TS=20 members about their knowledge of the Society's Rules more then 90%=20 will declare that they aren't familiar with them. And in my opinion=20 this is the main reason for much frustration present in regard to the=20 management with the Society, at least in the environment I am=20 familiar with.=20 Hopefully the things will change. Anton --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, MKR wrote: > > Thanks, Anton. >=20 > I believe I saw the rules first time when Dr. Alan Bain (now dead)=20 posted it > in his website several years ago. >=20 > I understand that there were changes made in the past couple of=20 years. >=20 > In spite of my request from anyone on this list who has access to=20 current > rules, no one has come forward with any help. >=20 > I am sure all the GS's have copies in their files. >=20 > May be keeping membership in the dark is to their benefit and=20 tactics. This > is how they succeeded in keeping control in the past. >=20 > This typifies attitude of "theosophists" who do not practice what=20 they > preach. >=20 > mkr >=20 > On 4/25/08, Anton Rozman wrote: > > > > RULES AND REGULATIONS FOR THE MANAGEMENT OF THE ASSOCIATION > > NAMED 'THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY', ADYAR, MADRAS > > > > http://www.katinkahesselink.net/his/rules.htm > > > > You can find the proceedings regarding the election of the=20 President > > under the Rule 10 and in the Appendix. > > > > Anton > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ,=20 MKR > > wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone has a copy of current rules governing the election=20 of > > > international president? If so, pl post it here or e-mail me > > offlist. > > > Thanks. > > > > > > M K Ramadoss > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > >=20 > > >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > From anton_rozman@yahoo.com Sat Apr 26 01:14:43 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: anton_rozman@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 73837 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2008 08:14:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2008 08:14:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n25a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.237) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2008 08:14:42 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n25.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Apr 2008 08:14:42 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Apr 2008 08:14:42 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Apr 2008 08:14:42 -0000 Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 08:14:42 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 209.131.38.237 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 209.73.164.200 From: "Anton Rozman" Subject: Re: TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=192242904; y=8Csslu7ghwESMKlHPZTkqYlUW9plIuuit4hNU3XmIguzuCyzK1XP X-Yahoo-Profile: anton_rozman X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43685 All of us who run independent theosophical web sites or participate=20 on independent mail-lists have a an opportunity to meet the TS=20 members' need and right to be informed, but we should take care to=20 not provoke further divisions and should strive to reach our common=20 interest. There are no elements to suspect that the intention to bring forward=20 the relative information isn't sincere and that the transcription of=20 doctors' certificates is not genuine, until the opposite is proven.=20 The information speaks for itself. The date of issue and the=20 mentioning of the Theosophical Society in the certificates indicate=20 that they are somehow connected with the election process. Anton --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, MKR wrote: > > In the election of International President, the issue of Radha=20 Burnier's > health has become central. We have seen how her health was reported=20 to be > good early last year and then in the end of last year doubts were=20 cast by > some National Secretaries about her physical and mental health and=20 her > fitness to carryon the duties of the President. >=20 > To allay these doubts, early this month, two physicians declared=20 Radha > Burnier fully fit, both mentally and physically. I discussed these=20 on this > maillist. However, some readers wanted to see scanned copies of=20 originals to > convince themselves about the veracity of the certifications. >=20 > Here is a very easy way to confirm the above facts. Anyone=20 interested can > send e-mail to candidates, International Officers, and National > Secretaries(Presidents). The email addresses are available in the=20 Adyar > Website. Any responses received can be posted here for the benefit=20 of all of > us. Multiple source verification is the norm in the journalistic=20 field. > MKR >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > From jokelap@dnainternet.net Sat Apr 26 01:37:35 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: jokelap@dnainternet.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 53648 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2008 08:37:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2008 08:37:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.dnainternet.fi) (87.94.96.112) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2008 08:37:34 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (223-243.adsl.lpoy.dnainternet.fi [78.27.77.243]) by smtp2.dnainternet.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BBE4CA64 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 11:37:32 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <4812E9CD.3000608@dnainternet.net> Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 11:37:33 +0300 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 87.94.96.112 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Jokela Petri Subject: Some news and personal oppnions about the Presidential election of TS 2008 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=281705993; y=rzXidGvcfW-aYtV2GX66j1uCRZb192YUTihaAWPXM09TcKRWFTmE X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43686 This far there has been mostly two kinds of proofs of Mrs. Radha Burnier´s health. *We have an eye wintness by president of TS in USA Mrs. Betty Blant (and many others) and two indian doctor wintness and witnesess of residents of Adyar (whom see her probably everyday) and all other wintnesses around the world. And all they speak different langague. Let´s us see whose prove will be the right one. * *I have heard that John will not do the campain during the presidential election.* That´s why he is not replying to those emails and so on sent forexample by Mr. Pedro Oliveira. Maybe the silence of John in general meeting was a supporting kind of silence for Radha, as her health has not been the best within last few years. And I belive that John was very optimistic and very positive what comes to his message about Radha´s health, which Ramadoss sent here some time back. Some people who were present in general council meeting 2006 and 2007 did not see things like that. Health in the age of our president can be pretty fragile and change very quickly. In 2006, general council meeting took so long, because of Radha´s slow speaking that they had to continue meeting on the next day. I was told, that this was not normal at all. *As we are living in the internet communication age, why cannot they arrange some kind of online gallup/debate of candidates of presidential election in the net? *Even other happenings could be arrange at times. If it is true as Ramadoss has written earlier here that one can get information from the net regarding the value of your house, amount of the members of your family etc. etc. Why it is so difficult to have such an information about our president´s health. Which of the proof do you belive? Indian doctor´s report or eye witnesses of president of USA or residents of Adyar and so many other? *I am told that Mrs. Radha Burnier´s health has gone so bad just now that international secretary Ms. Mary Andersson has nominated Dr. John Algeo to do the president´s job at least for now. *Just a gossip? I belive that these kind of information should be immediately sent to all members by email in the critical situation like this. *Also I think that international rules should claim a doctor report of the every candidate´s health official way and prove it in the beggining of the election and still some public online talks in the net and so on should be arranged.* That´s what the presidents have to do in my homecountry, why not in the TS? As one former president of ours was kept in his job till his last day and his health was said to be good though it was totally opposite. Often that is even a bad thing for his reputation to serve the country untill bad times and show up publicly in the bad state of health. One bad error was in the Radha´s email, which you have seen here. How can she say that some general secretaries represents so and so many mambers. Is she sure that all members in that country that general secretary is standing for will vote just like general secretary has voted? I know anyone can disagree or agree and even justify one´s oppnion about what I have written here. *I wish all the best health and good spirit for everyone of you and for both of the candidates of presidential election of TS 2008!* PJ From dzyan@online.de Sat Apr 26 03:02:27 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: dzyan@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 42711 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2008 10:02:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2008 10:02:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.179) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2008 10:02:25 -0000 X-Received: from captainp6d3981 (brln-4db95b9e.pool.einsundeins.de [77.185.91.158]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu7) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0ML2xA-1JphEe2aXM-0003lP; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 12:02:24 +0200 Message-ID: <01e901c8a784$c6dc30e0$152ca8c0@captainp6d3981> To: References: <523270.67260.qm@web65513.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 12:01:39 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/1vSsNoUpzpIm6OiGEqXdzq75Dhaa/egYhfZf 0wF4l157dT89bQiZtsZUybxnEF43wUmTkjiGdXOxTjVO4Av3NO DnX1f6925L8Pxj6vNjjsFYKLML7Geqm X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.179 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World T. S. President's Election - 2008 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=302625737; y=w4X5lEoW9hofrVQEpxGcLmN9gdWMoFBEuSMhNeakMonWU7iHjsw5GBjV6w X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43687 Jayananda Hiranandani, you have raised some questions, which I try to answer hereunder from my point of view: >Firstly, some people have stated the need for the young . Let us examine >this from the standpoint of theosophical concepts. What is meant by young? >Is young a good criterion for us to benefit from the ocean of wisdom? Yes, of course, if you understand wisdom from the point of view of pukka theosophy. Purucker's only hope for the rescue of the nealry dead Theosophical Movement (which is mental, morally and spiritually always dead) was the youth, as he always expressed, and not aged people. In pseudo-theosophy, which stick on forms, authorities and second-hand salvation, they opt for aged people, because they are mre easier to control within non-spiritual bondaries. >Many of us, at least I, determine young by the chronological age in this >incarnation. Whereas, the evolutionary stage of a soul can be determined by >not the physical age in this incarnation, but by a study of past >incarnations through occult investigations of akashic records . Foolish poppycock. As if Burnier or Algeo can read the Akasha records. They can not even read physical books, according to their low understanding of basic theosophical concepts. >I wish to ask those who want young leadership to state whether they are >doing it on basis of occult investigations or not. If they are doing on the >basis of occult investigations, then congratulations to them, not only from >the theosophical world but other similar types of interested people. They, >these occult investigators, can do a lot of good and our third object will >indeed serve the humanity and the animal, plant and mineral kingdoms. Again foolish poppycock, if not black magic and disinformation of innocent theosophists and the public in general. The Third object does not support occult investigations, at least not in the twisted sense Besant and Leadbeater gave them with the talmudic-jesuitical rhetoric and word-play and cant. >For all the three groups of functions, Dr. Radha Burnier has not only her >experience as the President, not only her experience as the General >Secretary of the Indian Section, but also the experience inherited from her >father. Her father started his T. S. work under Dr. Besant. He was Dr. >Arundale's Vice President. Earlier he was, if my information is correct, >the Treasurer and the Recording Secretary (now re-designated as >International Secretary). He worked very closely with Mr. Jinarajadasa. >This has placed at Dr. Burnier's disposal not only her experience as the T. >S. President, but also of the earlier Presidents right back to Dr. Besant. As if heritage, caste, sex, race or staged reputation whatever maya can play the role for a real election. As if Besant is a shining example of a good PTS, as she became the post in 1907 against the last will of Olcott in a fake election, as you can read from the protest letters around the time and which were printed in The Dawn magazine, which is censored until today by the Adyar Vatican. Boris de Zirkoff, a life-long student and compiler of Blavatsky's life and work, wrote in letters to Germany, that in the Adyar TS never ever a real election has happened, all the shows they make are staged by foolish politicians for even more foolish mass theosophists. Your superstition in clairvoyance and other lower siddhis will not help your soul. It is only the path of HPB and Purucker, which will lead to the light of light. Frank From dzyan@online.de Sat Apr 26 03:03:03 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: dzyan@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 356 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2008 10:03:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2008 10:03:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.187) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2008 10:03:02 -0000 X-Received: from captainp6d3981 (brln-4db95b9e.pool.einsundeins.de [77.185.91.158]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu7) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0ML2xA-1JphFC1mGz-0003TN; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 12:02:58 +0200 Message-ID: <01ec01c8a784$db1901f0$152ca8c0@captainp6d3981> To: References: <523270.67260.qm@web65513.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 12:03:43 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19wE1F1ZWYpJCE2iuXLa7eP1slemJEGq3jJ0fC 2ky3FaT08Gb64yk+M8swKPZkVx2XMOsaKPV67WMx5zZIk+A70x PyeGQSPBsDvqzHkFvI5WUCI5qgvxvQn X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.187 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World T. S. President's Election - 2008 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=302625737; y=hNM2zXyDHPmLxyzBzOlmQE7aMGcWtKp8ozMqkUT-8z5qd2-0UFQ-BlvtVA X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43688 Jayananda Hiranandani, you have raised some questions, which I try to answer hereunder from my point of view: >Firstly, some people have stated the need for the young . Let us examine >this from the standpoint of theosophical concepts. What is meant by young? >Is young a good criterion for us to benefit from the ocean of wisdom? Yes, of course, if you understand wisdom from the point of view of pukka theosophy. Purucker's only hope for the rescue of the nealry dead Theosophical Movement (which is mental, morally and spiritually always dead) was the youth, as he always expressed, and not aged people. In pseudo-theosophy, which stick on forms, authorities and second-hand salvation, they opt for aged people, because they are mre easier to control within non-spiritual bondaries. >Many of us, at least I, determine young by the chronological age in this >incarnation. Whereas, the evolutionary stage of a soul can be determined by >not the physical age in this incarnation, but by a study of past >incarnations through occult investigations of akashic records . Foolish poppycock. As if Burnier or Algeo can read the Akasha records. They can not even read physical books, according to their low understanding of basic theosophical concepts. >I wish to ask those who want young leadership to state whether they are >doing it on basis of occult investigations or not. If they are doing on the >basis of occult investigations, then congratulations to them, not only from >the theosophical world but other similar types of interested people. They, >these occult investigators, can do a lot of good and our third object will >indeed serve the humanity and the animal, plant and mineral kingdoms. Again foolish poppycock, if not black magic and disinformation of innocent theosophists and the public in general. The Third object does not support occult investigations, at least not in the twisted sense Besant and Leadbeater gave them with the talmudic-jesuitical rhetoric and word-play and cant. >For all the three groups of functions, Dr. Radha Burnier has not only her >experience as the President, not only her experience as the General >Secretary of the Indian Section, but also the experience inherited from her >father. Her father started his T. S. work under Dr. Besant. He was Dr. >Arundale's Vice President. Earlier he was, if my information is correct, >the Treasurer and the Recording Secretary (now re-designated as >International Secretary). He worked very closely with Mr. Jinarajadasa. >This has placed at Dr. Burnier's disposal not only her experience as the T. >S. President, but also of the earlier Presidents right back to Dr. Besant. As if heritage, caste, sex, race or staged reputation whatever maya can play the role for a real election. As if Besant is a shining example of a good PTS, as she became the post in 1907 against the last will of Olcott in a fake election, as you can read from the protest letters around the time and which were printed in The Dawn magazine, which is censored until today by the Adyar Vatican. Boris de Zirkoff, a life-long student and compiler of Blavatsky's life and work, wrote in letters to Germany, that in the Adyar TS never ever a real election has happened, all the shows they make are staged by foolish politicians for even more foolish mass theosophists. Your superstition in clairvoyance and other lower siddhis will not help your soul. It is only the path of HPB and Purucker, which will lead you to the light of light. Pensionists, who never saw the light, will be of no help for the TS or the TM. Age makes not wise. If you are a fool under 40, you will also remain a fool if you are 65. Away will the old fools. Frank From mkr777@gmail.com Sat Apr 26 05:14:53 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 98707 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2008 12:14:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2008 12:14:51 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.240) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2008 12:14:50 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c31so1066122anc.119 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 05:14:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.110.16 with SMTP id i16mr9090139anc.40.1209212090117; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 05:14:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 05:14:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 07:14:50 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.240 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=mdI0G8-LNkySHv41NIvtTdudhhq-m4OgnMrQFYgbOU6g3TDOClI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43689 Thanks for your feedback. If there has been any false or incorrect information in my msgs, by now we would have seen a barrage of emails correcting them and not a single message has shown up. I am sure that all the GC members/secretaries have in their possession the doctors' certificates. For the sake of justice, these should have been distributed to members to keep them informed of the fact. Some secretaries were very enthusiastic in sending messages to their members supporting one candidate over the other and the simple justification was the health of Radha Burnier based on their personal opinion. When two Doctors examine Radha Burnier and give written certificates about her physical and mental fitness, we should expect the general secretaries to have the same enthusiasm to distribute the information. I have not yet seen it. Leaders set the tone to the organization. The motto of TS is "There is No Religion Higher Than Truth". Let us distribute the simple truth about the health issue which is now central to the election. mkr On 4/26/08, Anton Rozman wrote: > > All of us who run independent theosophical web sites or participate > on independent mail-lists have a an opportunity to meet the TS > members' need and right to be informed, but we should take care to > not provoke further divisions and should strive to reach our common > interest. > > There are no elements to suspect that the intention to bring forward > the relative information isn't sincere and that the transcription of > doctors' certificates is not genuine, until the opposite is proven. > > The information speaks for itself. The date of issue and the > mentioning of the Theosophical Society in the certificates indicate > that they are somehow connected with the election process. > > Anton > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com , MKR > wrote: > > > > In the election of International President, the issue of Radha > Burnier's > > health has become central. We have seen how her health was reported > to be > > good early last year and then in the end of last year doubts were > cast by > > some National Secretaries about her physical and mental health and > her > > fitness to carryon the duties of the President. > > > > To allay these doubts, early this month, two physicians declared > Radha > > Burnier fully fit, both mentally and physically. I discussed these > on this > > maillist. However, some readers wanted to see scanned copies of > originals to > > convince themselves about the veracity of the certifications. > > > > Here is a very easy way to confirm the above facts. Anyone > interested can > > send e-mail to candidates, International Officers, and National > > Secretaries(Presidents). The email addresses are available in the > Adyar > > Website. Any responses received can be posted here for the benefit > of all of > > us. Multiple source verification is the norm in the journalistic > field. > > MKR > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Sat Apr 26 05:17:34 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 69125 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2008 12:17:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2008 12:17:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.250) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2008 12:17:33 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c24so1172138ana.96 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 05:17:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.128.20 with SMTP id a20mr9056640and.121.1209212249664; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 05:17:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 05:17:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 07:17:29 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.250 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS President Election - Help!!! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=k6MeLeKhMgcqJSsDkMuyb4UH_N262MQhzXz7YCHWvrCd1ZFkd3s Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43690 With Internet, it is very easy to make information available. In the USA, even judges issue their judgements on Internet. So let us make use of it for TS. mkr On 4/26/08, Anton Rozman wrote: > > The Rules and Regulations of the TS have changed a little during the > years but essentially they remain the same. > > But I would dare to bet that if a pool will be made among the TS > members about their knowledge of the Society's Rules more then 90% > will declare that they aren't familiar with them. And in my opinion > this is the main reason for much frustration present in regard to the > management with the Society, at least in the environment I am > familiar with. > > Hopefully the things will change. > > Anton > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com , MKR > wrote: > > > > Thanks, Anton. > > > > I believe I saw the rules first time when Dr. Alan Bain (now dead) > posted it > > in his website several years ago. > > > > I understand that there were changes made in the past couple of > years. > > > > In spite of my request from anyone on this list who has access to > current > > rules, no one has come forward with any help. > > > > I am sure all the GS's have copies in their files. > > > > May be keeping membership in the dark is to their benefit and > tactics. This > > is how they succeeded in keeping control in the past. > > > > This typifies attitude of "theosophists" who do not practice what > they > > preach. > > > > mkr > > > > On 4/25/08, Anton Rozman wrote: > > > > > > RULES AND REGULATIONS FOR THE MANAGEMENT OF THE ASSOCIATION > > > NAMED 'THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY', ADYAR, MADRAS > > > > > > http://www.katinkahesselink.net/his/rules.htm > > > > > > You can find the proceedings regarding the election of the > President > > > under the Rule 10 and in the Appendix. > > > > > > Anton > > > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com>, > MKR > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Does anyone has a copy of current rules governing the election > of > > > > international president? If so, pl post it here or e-mail me > > > offlist. > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > M K Ramadoss > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Sat Apr 26 05:25:13 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 92532 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2008 12:25:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2008 12:25:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.251) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2008 12:25:11 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b2so1166706ana.95 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 05:25:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.13.2 with SMTP id 2mr9075023anm.137.1209212711043; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 05:25:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 05:25:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 07:25:10 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <4812BBF5.6060508@dnainternet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8CA75587677A478-1490-288C@webmail-db07.sysops.aol.com> <4812BBF5.6060508@dnainternet.net> X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.251 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=Acnf32YpDXusyuzyazqH7NGVC4nlJzGZdOCIPTWUjbY2IozJI5o Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43691 We need to look at Chuck's humor. He is joking. He has been around TS in Wheaton for a long time and we need someone like him to bring common sense from time to time. All of us who have known him on the maillist know he is = a real theosophist at heart and that is what counts. MKR On 4/26/08, Jokela Petri wrote: > > That=B4s a pretty rude comment about her. I have heard her speaking so > many times. > She is one of the best international lecturers of TS. She has done her > studies on theosophy very well. > One can find that out in her talks. She has lived teachings in practice > in the best way she has been able. > She has always been very hard worker. Her memory what comes to names of > members has been always amazing. > I belive she has hold the candel for Theosophy and the Society. > Sure I have heard her being tough and demanding boss for those who work > at Adyar. > But loving kindness attitude has increased on her within last few years. > Toward me she has been very loving as well during bad as well during and > good times. > > PJ > > Drpsionic@aol.com kirjoitti: > > > > > > In the 30 years she has been president there have always been > > questions about her mental health, usually from those who heard her > > speak. :) > > > > Chuck the Heretic > > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: MKR mkr777%40gmail.com >> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com >; > > theos-L@yahoogroups.com theos-L%40yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:22 am > > Subject: Theos-World TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health > > > > In the election of International President, the issue of Radha Burnier'= s > > health has become central. We have seen how her health was reported to > be > > good early last year and then in the end of last year doubts were cast > by > > some National Secretaries about her physical and mental health and her > > fitness to carryon the duties of the President. > > > > To allay these doubts, early this month, two physicians declared Radha > > Burnier fully fit, both mentally and physically. I discussed these on > this > > maillist. However, some readers wanted to see scanned copies of > > originals to > > convince themselves about the veracity of the certifications. > > > > Here is a very easy way to confirm the above facts. Anyone interested > can > > send e-mail to candidates, International Officers, and National > > Secretaries(Presidents). The email addresses are available in the Adyar > > Website. Any responses received can be posted here for the benefit of > > all of > > us. Multiple source verification is the norm in the journalistic field. > > MKR > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Sat Apr 26 07:06:20 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 57272 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2008 14:06:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2008 14:06:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mx06.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.26) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2008 14:06:17 -0000 X-Received: from 56341115.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.17.21] helo=khidr) by mx06.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1Jpl2d-0007Nf-26 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 16:06:16 +0200 Message-ID: <03ee01c8a7a6$b96d31d0$15113456@khidr> To: References: Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 16:06:29 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.26 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=zMtLKUUuEw_jFQr9e6mXC3h3xmWIR-PiDLbZ_JwVITBi X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43692 To all readers MKR wrote: "I am sure that all the GC members/secretaries have in their possession the doctors' certificates. For the sake of justice, these should have been distributed to members to keep them informed of the fact." So do you think one aught to send "doctors' certificates" on all TS members or only the leaders of TS? Is not not much more a question of you shall know them on their fruits? - - - - - - - - I will add this link, where everyone can Look up Gregory Tillett's extended biography of C. W. Leadbeater, and read all about his "fruits" and his karmic pomp and circumstance. http://ses.library.usyd.edu.au/handle/2123/1623 Here is C. W. Leadbeater in his casual dress doing his best to portray himself as an Arhat: http://www.reformedlcc.org/Quickstart/ImageLib/Bishop_Leadbeater_003a.jpg - - - - - - - M. Sufilight H. P. Blavatsky said: "The Society founded to remedy the glaring evils of Christianity, to shun bigotry and intolerance, cant and superstition and to cultivate real universal love extending even to the dumb brute". (The Collected Writings of H. P. Blavatsky, vol. 7, p.246) Master KH wrote in a Mahatma Letter: For the opposition represents enormous vested interests, and they have enthusiastic help from the Dugpas -- in Bhootan and the Vatican! (Here is all of Mahtama Letter, No. 55. Dugpas are the same as selfish Magicians.) ----- Original Message ----- From: MKR To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 2:14 PM Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health Thanks for your feedback. If there has been any false or incorrect information in my msgs, by now we would have seen a barrage of emails correcting them and not a single message has shown up. I am sure that all the GC members/secretaries have in their possession the doctors' certificates. For the sake of justice, these should have been distributed to members to keep them informed of the fact. Some secretaries were very enthusiastic in sending messages to their members supporting one candidate over the other and the simple justification was the health of Radha Burnier based on their personal opinion. When two Doctors examine Radha Burnier and give written certificates about her physical and mental fitness, we should expect the general secretaries to have the same enthusiasm to distribute the information. I have not yet seen it. Leaders set the tone to the organization. The motto of TS is "There is No Religion Higher Than Truth". Let us distribute the simple truth about the health issue which is now central to the election. mkr On 4/26/08, Anton Rozman wrote: > > All of us who run independent theosophical web sites or participate > on independent mail-lists have a an opportunity to meet the TS > members' need and right to be informed, but we should take care to > not provoke further divisions and should strive to reach our common > interest. > > There are no elements to suspect that the intention to bring forward > the relative information isn't sincere and that the transcription of > doctors' certificates is not genuine, until the opposite is proven. > > The information speaks for itself. The date of issue and the > mentioning of the Theosophical Society in the certificates indicate > that they are somehow connected with the election process. > > Anton > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com , MKR > wrote: > > > > In the election of International President, the issue of Radha > Burnier's > > health has become central. We have seen how her health was reported > to be > > good early last year and then in the end of last year doubts were > cast by > > some National Secretaries about her physical and mental health and > her > > fitness to carryon the duties of the President. > > > > To allay these doubts, early this month, two physicians declared > Radha > > Burnier fully fit, both mentally and physically. I discussed these > on this > > maillist. However, some readers wanted to see scanned copies of > originals to > > convince themselves about the veracity of the certifications. > > > > Here is a very easy way to confirm the above facts. Anyone > interested can > > send e-mail to candidates, International Officers, and National > > Secretaries(Presidents). The email addresses are available in the > Adyar > > Website. Any responses received can be posted here for the benefit > of all of > > us. Multiple source verification is the norm in the journalistic > field. > > MKR > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Mvandertak@yahoo.com Sat Apr 26 07:21:43 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mvandertak@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 89493 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2008 14:21:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2008 14:21:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52608.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.211) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2008 14:21:41 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 45074 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Apr 2008 14:21:40 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 7BmUNtgVM1mLAR8J6mARJHZMjxnBm2Xj1qCRNYYfUFnibG7Mj5F8odHmhatMmrsSm3JgTD8fCPGoBBjUiCNuk0uOjRbrN22d9rv3GBb7C7WhaR9XiT4BWpDOGk3l01uw4g0d_0W6aAPy5CYFxEQjYe1kIZC9bMdWFbnVd2HvRd7CeZr. X-Received: from [82.217.39.103] by web52608.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 07:21:40 PDT Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 07:21:40 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <03ee01c8a7a6$b96d31d0$15113456@khidr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <618721.43396.qm@web52608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.211 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Martin Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=38276385; y=ypZu6QM96OByEQrzkrbEsZ6mdQtC111pw6aO4gEHHcFJ83YmsA X-Yahoo-Profile: mvandertak X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43693 LMAO, looks like Sinterklaas: http://blikopsittard.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/sinterklaas_sittard.jpg --- Morten Nymann Olesen wrote: > > To all readers > > MKR wrote: > > "I am sure that all the GC members/secretaries have > in their possession the > doctors' certificates. For the sake of justice, > these should have been > distributed to members to keep them informed of the > fact." > > So do you think one aught to send "doctors' > certificates" on all TS members or only the leaders > of TS? > Is not not much more a question of you shall know > them on their fruits? > > > > - - - - - - - - > > > > I will add this link, where everyone can Look up > Gregory Tillett's extended biography of C. W. > Leadbeater, and read all about his "fruits" and his > karmic pomp and circumstance. > http://ses.library.usyd.edu.au/handle/2123/1623 > > Here is C. W. Leadbeater in his casual dress doing > his best to portray himself as an Arhat: > http://www.reformedlcc.org/Quickstart/ImageLib/Bishop_Leadbeater_003a.jpg > > > > - - - - - - - > > > M. Sufilight > > H. P. Blavatsky said: > "The Society founded to remedy the glaring evils of > Christianity, to shun > bigotry and intolerance, cant and superstition and > to cultivate real > universal love extending even to the dumb brute". > (The Collected Writings of H. P. Blavatsky, vol. 7, > p.246) > > Master KH wrote in a Mahatma Letter: > For the opposition represents enormous vested > interests, and they have > enthusiastic help from the Dugpas -- in Bhootan and > the Vatican! > (Here is all of Mahtama Letter, No. 55. Dugpas are > the same as selfish > Magicians.) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: MKR > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 2:14 PM > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Election - Radha > Burnier's Health > > > Thanks for your feedback. > > If there has been any false or incorrect > information in my msgs, by now we > would have seen a barrage of emails correcting > them and not a single message > has shown up. > > I am sure that all the GC members/secretaries have > in their possession the > doctors' certificates. For the sake of justice, > these should have been > distributed to members to keep them informed of > the fact. > > Some secretaries were very enthusiastic in sending > messages to their members > supporting one candidate over the other and the > simple justification was the > health of Radha Burnier based on their personal > opinion. > > When two Doctors examine Radha Burnier and give > written certificates about > her physical and mental fitness, we should expect > the general secretaries to > have the same enthusiasm to distribute the > information. I have not yet seen > it. > > Leaders set the tone to the organization. The > motto of TS is "There is > No Religion Higher Than Truth". Let us distribute > the simple truth > about the health issue which is now central to the > election. > > mkr > > On 4/26/08, Anton Rozman > wrote: > > > > All of us who run independent theosophical web > sites or participate > > on independent mail-lists have a an opportunity > to meet the TS > > members' need and right to be informed, but we > should take care to > > not provoke further divisions and should strive > to reach our common > > interest. > > > > There are no elements to suspect that the > intention to bring forward > > the relative information isn't sincere and that > the transcription of > > doctors' certificates is not genuine, until the > opposite is proven. > > > > The information speaks for itself. The date of > issue and the > > mentioning of the Theosophical Society in the > certificates indicate > > that they are somehow connected with the > election process. > > > > Anton > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > , MKR > > wrote: > > > > > > In the election of International President, > the issue of Radha > > Burnier's > > > health has become central. We have seen how > her health was reported > > to be > > > good early last year and then in the end of > last year doubts were > > cast by > > > some National Secretaries about her physical > and mental health and > > her > > > fitness to carryon the duties of the > President. > > > > > > To allay these doubts, early this month, two > physicians declared > > Radha > > > Burnier fully fit, both mentally and > physically. I discussed these > > on this > > > maillist. However, some readers wanted to see > scanned copies of > > originals to > > > convince themselves about the veracity of the > certifications. > > > > > > Here is a very easy way to confirm the above > facts. Anyone > > interested can > > > send e-mail to candidates, International > Officers, and National > > > Secretaries(Presidents). The email addresses > are available in the > > Adyar > > > Website. Any responses received can be posted > here for the benefit > > of all of > > > us. Multiple source verification is the norm > in the journalistic > > field. > > > MKR > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > === message truncated === ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Sat Apr 26 07:26:09 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 27944 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2008 14:26:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2008 14:26:07 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mx02.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.12) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2008 14:26:06 -0000 X-Received: from 56341115.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.17.21] helo=khidr) by mx02.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1JplLk-00011K-0J for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 16:26:00 +0200 Message-ID: <000601c8a7a9$7b85d860$15113456@khidr> To: Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 16:26:14 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.12 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" Subject: TO THE ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=DASWi-_vW_EshL4yAzb3qP0AFcslReTTcUhDcbeutJGr X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43694 To all readers My views are: It might be well to be aware of the content of the following article, which= was send by the TS to the Archbishop of Canterbury. Here are a few excerpts of the article... =E2=80=9CLucifer=E2=80=9D - TO THE ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY - Greeting (An Open Letter - The Blavatsky Pamphlets - No 1 - Reprinted from =E2=80=9C= Lucifer=E2=80=9D Magazine 1887) "WE make use of an open letter to your Grace as a vehicle to convey to you,= and through you to the clergy, to their flocks, and to Christians generall= y =E2=80=94 who regard us as the enemies of Christ =E2=80=94 a brief statem= ent of the position which Theosophy occupies in regard to Christianity as w= e believe that the time for making that statement has arrived. =E2=80=9D=20 Your Grace is no doubt aware that Theosophy is not a religion, but a philos= ophy at once religious and scientific; and that the chief work, so far, of = the Theosophical Society has been to revive in each religion its own animat= ing spirit, by encouraging and helping enquiry into the true significance o= f its doctrines and observances. Theosophists know that the deeper one pene= trates into the meaning of the dogmas and ceremonies of all religions, the = greater becomes their apparent underlying similarity, until finally a perce= ption of their fundamental unity is reached. This common ground is no other= than Theosophy =E2=80=94 the Secret Doctrine of the ages; which, diluted a= nd disguised to suit the capacity of the multitude, and the requirements of= the time, has formed the living kernel of all religion. The Theosophical S= ociety has branches respectively composed of Buddhists. Hindoos, Mahomedans= , Parsees, Christians, and Freethinkers, who work together as brethren on t= he common ground of Theosophy; and it is precisely because Theosophy is not= a religion, nor can for the multitude supply the place of a religion, that= the success of the Society has been so great, not merely as regards its gr= owing membership and extending influence, but also in respect to the perfor= mance of the work it has undertaken =E2=80=94 the revival of spirituality i= n religion, and the cultivation of the sentiment of BROTHERHOOD among men.[= Page 2]=20 = =20 We Theosophists believe that a religion is a natural incident in the life o= f man in his present stage of development; and that although, in rare cases= , individuals may be born without the religious sentiment, a community must= have a religion, that is to say, a uniting bond =E2=80=94 under penalty of= social decay and material annihilation. We believe that no religious doctr= ine can be more than an attempt to picture to our present limited understan= dings, in the terms of our terrestrial experiences, great cosmical and spir= itual truths, which in our normal state of consciousness we vaguely sense, = rather than actually perceive and comprehend; and a revelation, if it is to= reveal anything, must necessarily conform to the same earth-bound requirem= ents of the human intellect. In our estimation, therefore, no religion can = be absolutely true, and none can be absolutely false. A religion is true in= proportion as it supplies the spiritual, moral and intellectual needs of t= he time, and helps the development of mankind in these respects. It is fals= e in proportion as it hinders that development, and offends the spiritual, = moral and intellectual portion of man's nature. And the transcendentally sp= iritual ideas of the ruling powers of the Universe entertained by an Orient= al sage would be as false a religion for the African savage as the grovelli= ng fetishism of the latter would be for the sage, although both views must = necessarily be true in degree, for both represent the highest ideas attaina= ble by the respective individuals of the same cosmico-spiritual facts, whic= h can never be known in their reality by man while he remains but man. Theosophists, therefore, are respectors of all the religions, and for the r= eligious ethics of Jesus they have profound admiration. It could not be oth= erwise, for these teachings which have come down to us are the same as thos= e of Theosophy. So far, therefore, as modern Christianity makes good its cl= aim to be the practical religion taught by Jesus, Theosophists are with it = heart and hand. So far as it goes contrary to those ethics, pure and simple= , Theosophists are its opponents. Any Christian can, if he will, compare th= e Sermon on the Mount with the dogmas of his church, and the spirit that br= eathes in it, with the principles that animate this Christian civilization = and govern his own life; and then he will be able to judge for himself how = far the religion of Jesus enters into his Christianity, and how far, theref= ore, he and Theosophists [Page 3] are agreed. But professing Christians, es= pecially the clergy, shrink from making this comparison. Like merchants who= fear to find themselves bankrupt, they seem to dread the discovery of a di= screpancy in their accounts which could not be made good by placing materia= l assets as a set-off to spiritual liabilities. The comparison between the = teachings of Jesus and the doctrines of the churches has, however, frequent= ly been made =E2=80=94 and often with great learning and critical acumen = =E2=80=94 both by those who would abolish Christianity and those who would = reform it; and the aggregate result of these comparisons, as your Grace mus= t be well aware, goes to prove that in almost every point the doctrines of = the churches and the practices of Christians are in direct opposition to th= e teachings of Jesus." "We are accustomed to say to the Buddhist, the Mahomedan, the Hindoo, or th= e Parsee: "The road to Theosophy lies, for you, through your own religion".= We say this because those creeds possess a deeply philosophical and esoter= ic meaning, explanatory of the allegories under which they are presented to= the people; but we cannot say the same thing to Christians. The successors= of the Apostles never recorded the secret doctrine of Jesus =E2=80=94 the = "mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven" =E2=80=94 which it was given to them (= his apostles) alone to know. [ S. Mark iv II; Matthew xiii; Luke viii 10 ].= These have been suppressed, made away with, destroyed. What have come down= upon the stream of time are the maxims, the parables, the allegories and t= he fables which Jesus expressly-intended for the spiritually deaf and blind= to be revealed later to the world, and which modern Christianity either ta= kes all literally, or interprets according to the fancies of the Fathers of= the secular church. In both cases they are like cut flowers: they are seve= red from the plant on which they grew, and from the root whence that plant = drew its life. Were we, therefore, to encourage Christians, as we do the vo= taries of other creeds, to study their own religion for themselves, the con= sequence would be, not a knowledge of the meaning of its mysteries, but eit= her the revival of mediaeval superstition and intolerance, accompanied by a= formidable outbreak of mere lip-prayer and preaching =E2=80=94 such as res= ulted in the formation of the 239 Protestant sects of England alone =E2=80= =94 or else a great [Page 4] increase of scepticism, for Christianity has n= o esoteric foundation known to those who profess it. For even you, my Lord = Primate of England, must be painfully aware that you know absolutely no mor= e of those "mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven" which Jesus taught his disc= iples, than does the humblest and most illiterate member of your church.=20 It is easily understood, therefore, that Theosophists have nothing to say a= gainst the policy of the Roman Catholic Church in forbidding or of the Prot= estants churches in discouraging, any such private enquiry into the meaning= of the "Christian" dogmas as would correspond to the esoteric study of oth= er religions. With their present ideas and knowledge, professing Christians= are not prepared to undertake a critical examination of their faith with a= promise of good results. Its inevitable effect would be to paralyze rather= than stimulate their dormant religious sentiments; for biblical criticism = and comparative mythology have proved conclusively =E2=80=94 to those, at l= east, who have no vested interests, spiritual or temporal, in the maintenan= ce of orthodoxy =E2=80=94 that the Christian religion, as it now exists, is= composed of the husks of Judaism, the shreds of paganism, and the ill-dige= sted remains of gnosticism and neo-platonism. This curious conglomerate whi= ch gradually formed itself round the recorded sayings (=CE=BB=CE=BF=CE=B3= =CE=B9=CE=B1 )of Jesus, has, after the lapse of ages, now begun to disinteg= rate, and to crumble away from the pure and precious gems of Theosophic tru= th which it has so long over lain and hidden, but could neither disfigure n= or destroy. Theosophy not only rescues these precious gems from the fate th= at threatens the rubbish in which they have been so long embedded, but save= s that rubbish itself from utter condemnation ; for it shows that the resul= t of biblical criticism is far from being the ultimate analysis of Christia= nity, as each of the pieces which compose the curious mosaics of the Church= es once belonged to a religion which had an esoteric meaning. It is only wh= en these pieces are restored to the places they originally occupied that th= eir hidden significance can be perceived, and the real meaning of the dogma= s of Christianity understood. To do all this, however, requires a knowledge= of the Secret Doctrine as it exists in the esoteric foundation of other re= ligions; and this knowledge is not in the hands of the Clergy, for the Chur= ch has hidden, and since lost, the keys.[Page 5]" http://www.theosophy.ca/ArchbishopCanterbury.htm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Mvandertak@yahoo.com Sat Apr 26 07:36:32 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mvandertak@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 45507 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2008 14:36:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2008 14:36:31 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52606.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.209) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2008 14:36:30 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 28371 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Apr 2008 14:36:18 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: fW38S1sVM1nZKhwPa1HpVau4EeCIwqmsuCheXgSwkJXjsjFJl6LBvkpUEwBRouv4oyjgz54HBp83VuxOW6AXUsLnezEWhF6_ZRdpWdqveFe0oQXI_RimWbKRKHQGzaZEaFG7iC9Tt8TfxLFyStzxR3yNWtYK.5gGLm0kb6CQVGNBktrPN0XPwIw9WFMqMCaJWp_5_DXCFDrsdc3.tk4gcV._f9sO6tYB49L.dKImAzI- X-Received: from [82.217.39.103] by web52606.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 07:36:18 PDT Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 07:36:18 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <288922.27743.qm@web52606.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.209 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Martin Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=38276385; y=vK0H7VPmLS0f9ukF8fZMQvTiWHkwUwntMQCGQgVVIxnc4XYtqw X-Yahoo-Profile: mvandertak X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43695 Well let the older candidates have a meal here: http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,549788,00.html On the menu: "The Essence of the Golden Buddha," "Phoenix Rising," "Jasmine Flowers with 1,000 Layers" "Look for the Treasure in the Desert Sand." They must have know about Leadbeater for: Children under 15 are not allowed in the penis restaurant; the hormones are said to interfere with natural growth... --- MKR wrote: > We need to look at Chuck's humor. He is joking. He > has been around TS in > Wheaton for a long time and we need someone like him > to bring common sense > from time to time. All of us who have known him on > the maillist know he is a > real theosophist at heart and that is what counts. > > MKR > > On 4/26/08, Jokela Petri > wrote: > > > > That´s a pretty rude comment about her. I have > heard her speaking so > > many times. > > She is one of the best international lecturers of > TS. She has done her > > studies on theosophy very well. > > One can find that out in her talks. She has lived > teachings in practice > > in the best way she has been able. > > She has always been very hard worker. Her memory > what comes to names of > > members has been always amazing. > > I belive she has hold the candel for Theosophy and > the Society. > > Sure I have heard her being tough and demanding > boss for those who work > > at Adyar. > > But loving kindness attitude has increased on her > within last few years. > > Toward me she has been very loving as well during > bad as well during and > > good times. > > > > PJ > > > > Drpsionic@aol.com kirjoitti: > > > > > > > > > In the 30 years she has been president there > have always been > > > questions about her mental health, usually from > those who heard her > > > speak. :) > > > > > > Chuck the Heretic > > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: MKR > > mkr777%40gmail.com >> > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > > theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com > >; > > > theos-L@yahoogroups.com > > theos-L%40yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:22 am > > > Subject: Theos-World TS Election - Radha > Burnier's Health > > > > > > In the election of International President, the > issue of Radha Burnier's > > > health has become central. We have seen how her > health was reported to > > be > > > good early last year and then in the end of last > year doubts were cast > > by > > > some National Secretaries about her physical and > mental health and her > > > fitness to carryon the duties of the President. > > > > > > To allay these doubts, early this month, two > physicians declared Radha > > > Burnier fully fit, both mentally and physically. > I discussed these on > > this > > > maillist. However, some readers wanted to see > scanned copies of > > > originals to > > > convince themselves about the veracity of the > certifications. > > > > > > Here is a very easy way to confirm the above > facts. Anyone interested > > can > > > send e-mail to candidates, International > Officers, and National > > > Secretaries(Presidents). The email addresses are > available in the Adyar > > > Website. Any responses received can be posted > here for the benefit of > > > all of > > > us. Multiple source verification is the norm in > the journalistic field. > > > MKR > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From Drpsionic@aol.com Sat Apr 26 08:09:18 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 26914 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2008 15:09:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2008 15:09:16 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2008 15:09:16 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c5f.2e7a0ef6 (37059) for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 11:09:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from webmail-me13 (webmail-me13.webmail.aol.com [64.12.88.205]) by cia-db04.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB045-90c348134598392; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 11:09:12 -0400 References: <8CA75587677A478-1490-288C@webmail-db07.sysops.aol.com> <4812BBF5.6060508@dnainternet.net> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 11:09:12 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.199.151.243 In-Reply-To: <4812BBF5.6060508@dnainternet.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36240-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.199.151.243 by webmail-me13.sysops.aol.com (64.12.88.205) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sat, 26 Apr 2008 11:09:12 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA75C69ECD30EE-63C-B26@webmail-me13.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.139.136 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=0kZZ7FKRcaH7BNULHLfJk49aKFEfod-6DNi03xjBGYYPvNkmHQ X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43696 You did not hear her speak at Olcott right after she was elected.=C2=A0 It = was so bad that when an outsider asked who she was, he was told that it was= just some woman from India staying there because no one wanted to admit th= at she was the society President. I had one of my best lines at her expense years ago at the US convention.= =C2=A0 They showed that dreadful movie that she was in and at one point in = the dialogue, when her character is asked if she would marry an American, h= er character responded, "I don't understand them."=C2=A0 At that point, pos= sessed by mirth demons, I blurted out, "She still doesn't!"=C2=A0 And every= one in the room roared with laughter. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano=20 -----Original Message----- From: Jokela Petri To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 12:21 am Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health That=C2=B4s a pretty rude comment about her. I have heard her speaking so=20 many times. She is one of the best international lecturers of TS. She has done her=20 studies on theosophy very well. One can find that out in her talks. She has lived teachings in practice=20 in the best way she has been able. She has always been very hard worker. Her memory what comes to names of=20 members has been always amazing. I belive she has hold the candel for Theosophy and the Society. Sure I have heard her being tough and demanding boss for those who work=20 at Adyar. But loving kindness attitude has increased on her within last few years. Toward me she has been very loving as well during bad as well during and=20 good times. PJ Drpsionic@aol.com kirjoitti: > > > In the 30 years she has been president there have always been=20 > questions about her mental health, usually from those who heard her=20 > speak. :) > > Chuck the Heretic > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > -----Original Message----- > From: MKR > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ;=20 > theos-L@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:22 am > Subject: Theos-World TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health > > In the election of International President, the issue of Radha Burnier's > health has become central. We have seen how her health was reported to be > good early last year and then in the end of last year doubts were cast by > some National Secretaries about her physical and mental health and her > fitness to carryon the duties of the President. > > To allay these doubts, early this month, two physicians declared Radha > Burnier fully fit, both mentally and physically. I discussed these on thi= s > maillist. However, some readers wanted to see scanned copies of=20 > originals to > convince themselves about the veracity of the certifications. > > Here is a very easy way to confirm the above facts. Anyone interested can > send e-mail to candidates, International Officers, and National > Secretaries(Presidents). The email addresses are available in the Adyar > Website. Any responses received can be posted here for the benefit of=20 > all of > us. Multiple source verification is the norm in the journalistic field. > MKR > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >=20 =20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Sat Apr 26 08:12:48 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 93008 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2008 15:12:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2008 15:12:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m12.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.100) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2008 15:12:47 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.bd6.2e2f02a1 (37529) for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 11:12:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from webmail-me13 (webmail-me13.webmail.aol.com [64.12.88.205]) by cia-mb01.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMB012-92994813466b2af; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 11:12:43 -0400 References: <000601c8a7a9$7b85d860$15113456@khidr> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 11:12:43 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.199.151.243 In-Reply-To: <000601c8a7a9$7b85d860$15113456@khidr> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36240-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.199.151.243 by webmail-me13.sysops.aol.com (64.12.88.205) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sat, 26 Apr 2008 11:12:43 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA75C71C8FE1CF-63C-B5E@webmail-me13.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.143.100 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World TO THE ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=qTKbqTOVBxZnBe3dbdcyg_e0UfExJZ7f2PIbN0duMMLtsbB9Aw X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43697 I'm sure that the old girl had a reason for writing it but I can't for life= of me figure out what it was. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano=20 -----Original Message----- From: Morten Nymann Olesen To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 9:26 am Subject: Theos-World TO THE ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY To all readers My views are: It might be well to be aware of the content of the following article, which= was send by the TS to the Archbishop of Canterbury. Here are a few excerpts of the article... =E2=80=9CLucifer=E2=80=9D - TO THE ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY - Greeting (An Open Letter - The Blavatsky Pamphlets - No 1 - Reprinted from =E2=80=9C= Lucifer=E2=80=9D Magazine 1887) "WE make use of an open letter to your Grace as a vehicle to convey to you,= and through you to the clergy, to their flocks, and to Christians generall= y =E2=80=94 who regard us as the enemies of Christ =E2=80=94 a brief statem= ent of the position which Theosophy occupies in regard to Christianity as w= e believe that the time for making that statement has arrived. =E2=80=9D=20 Your Grace is no doubt aware that Theosophy is not a religion, but a philos= ophy at once religious and scientific; and that the chief work, so far, of = the Theosophical Society has been to revive in each religion its own animat= ing spirit, by encouraging and helping enquiry into the true significance o= f its doctrines and observances. Theosophists know that the deeper one pene= trates into the meaning of the dogmas and ceremonies of all religions, the = greater becomes their apparent underlying similarity, until finally a perce= ption of their fundamental unity is reached. This common ground is no other= than Theosophy =E2=80=94 the Secret Doctrine of the ages; which, diluted a= nd disguised to suit the capacity of the multitude, and the requirements of= the time, has formed the living kernel of all religion. The Theosophical S= ociety has branches respectively composed of Buddhists. Hindoos, Mahomedans= , Parsees, Christians, and Freethinkers, who work together as brethren on t= he common ground of Theosophy; and it is precisely because Theosophy is not= a religion, nor can for the multitude supply the place of a religion, that= the success of the Society has been so great, not merely as regards its gr= owing membership and extending influence, but also in respect to the perfor= mance of the work it has undertaken =E2=80=94 the revival of spirituality i= n religion, and the cultivation of the sentiment of BROTHERHOOD among men.[= Page 2]=20 We Theosophists believe that a religion is a natural incident in the life o= f man in his present stage of development; and that although, in rare cases= , individuals may be born without the religious sentiment, a community must= have a religion, that is to say, a uniting bond =E2=80=94 under penalty of= social decay and material annihilation. We believe that no religious doctr= ine can be more than an attempt to picture to our present limited understan= dings, in the terms of our terrestrial experiences, great cosmical and spir= itual truths, which in our normal state of consciousness we vaguely sense, = rather than actually perceive and comprehend; and a revelation, if it is to= reveal anything, must necessarily conform to the same earth-bound requirem= ents of the human intellect. In our estimation, therefore, no religion can = be absolutely true, and none can be absolutely false. A religion is true in= proportion as it supplies the spiritual, moral and intellectual needs of t= he time, and helps the development of mankind in these respects. It is fals= e in proportion as it hinders that development, and offends the spiritual, = moral and intellectual portion of man's nature. And the transcendentally sp= iritual ideas of the ruling powers of the Universe entertained by an Orient= al sage would be as false a religion for the African savage as the grovelli= ng fetishism of the latter would be for the sage, although both views must = necessarily be true in degree, for both represent the highest ideas attaina= ble by the respective individuals of the same cosmico-spiritual facts, whic= h can never be known in their reality by man while he remains but man. Theosophists, therefore, are respectors of all the religions, and for the r= eligious ethics of Jesus they have profound admiration. It could not be oth= erwise, for these teachings which have come down to us are the same as thos= e of Theosophy. So far, therefore, as modern Christianity makes good its cl= aim to be the practical religion taught by Jesus, Theosophists are with it = heart and hand. So far as it goes contrary to those ethics, pure and simple= , Theosophists are its opponents. Any Christian can, if he will, compare th= e Sermon on the Mount with the dogmas of his church, and the spirit that br= eathes in it, with the principles that animate this Christian civilization = and govern his own life; and then he will be able to judge for himself how = far the religion of Jesus enters into his Christianity, and how far, theref= ore, he and Theosophists [Page 3] are agreed. But professing Christians, es= pecially the clergy, shrink from making this comparison. Like merchants who= fear to find themselves bankrupt, they seem to dread the discovery of a di= screpancy in their accounts which could not be made good by placing materia= l assets as a set-off to spiritual liabilities. The comparison between the = teachings of Jesus and the doctrines of the churches has, however, frequent= ly been made =E2=80=94 and often with great learning and critical acumen = =E2=80=94 both by those who would abolish Christianity and those who would = reform it; and the aggregate result of these comparisons, as your Grace mus= t be well aware, goes to prove that in almost every point the doctrines of = the churches and the practices of Christians are in direct opposition to th= e teachings of Jesus." "We are accustomed to say to the Buddhist, the Mahomedan, the Hindoo, or th= e Parsee: "The road to Theosophy lies, for you, through your own religion".= We say this because those creeds possess a deeply philosophical and esoter= ic meaning, explanatory of the allegories under which they are presented to= the people; but we cannot say the same thing to Christians. The successors= of the Apostles never recorded the secret doctrine of Jesus =E2=80=94 the = "mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven" =E2=80=94 which it was given to them (= his apostles) alone to know. [ S. Mark iv II; Matthew xiii; Luke viii 10 ].= These have been suppressed, made away with, destroyed. What have come down= upon the stream of time are the maxims, the parables, the allegories and t= he fables which Jesus expressly-intended for the spiritually deaf and blind= to be revealed later to the world, and which modern Christianity either ta= kes all literally, or interprets according to the fancies of the Fathers of= the secular church. In both cases they are like cut flowers: they are seve= red from the plant on which they grew, and from the root whence that plant = drew its life. Were we, therefore, to encourage Christians, as we do the vo= taries of other creeds, to study their own religion for themselves, the con= sequence would be, not a knowledge of the meaning of its mysteries, but eit= her the revival of mediaeval superstition and intolerance, accompanied by a= formidable outbreak of mere lip-prayer and preaching =E2=80=94 such as res= ulted in the formation of the 239 Protestant sects of England alone =E2=80= =94 or else a great [Page 4] increase of scepticism, for Christianity has n= o esoteric foundation known to those who profess it. For even you, my Lord = Primate of England, must be painfully aware that you know absolutely no mor= e of those "mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven" which Jesus taught his disc= iples, than does the humblest and most illiterate member of your church.=20 It is easily understood, therefore, that Theosophists have nothing to say a= gainst the policy of the Roman Catholic Church in forbidding or of the Prot= estants churches in discouraging, any such private enquiry into the meaning= of the "Christian" dogmas as would correspond to the esoteric study of oth= er religions. With their present ideas and knowledge, professing Christians= are not prepared to undertake a critical examination of their faith with a= promise of good results. Its inevitable effect would be to paralyze rather= than stimulate their dormant religious sentiments; for biblical criticism = and comparative mythology have proved conclusively =E2=80=94 to those, at l= east, who have no vested interests, spiritual or temporal, in the maintenan= ce of orthodoxy =E2=80=94 that the Christian religion, as it now exists, is= composed of the husks of Judaism, the shreds of paganism, and the ill-dige= sted remains of gnosticism and neo-platonism. This curious conglomerate whi= ch gradually formed itself round the recorded sayings (=CE=BB=CE=BF=CE=B3= =CE=B9=CE=B1 )of Jesus, has, after the lapse of ages, now begun to disinteg= rate, and to crumble away from the pure and precious gems of Theosophic tru= th which it has so long over lain and hidden, but could neither disfigure n= or destroy. Theosophy not only rescues these precious gems from the fate th= at threatens the rubbish in which they have been so long embedded, but save= s that rubbish itself from utter condemnation ; for it shows that the resul= t of biblical criticism is far from being the ultimate analysis of Christia= nity, as each of the pieces which compose the curious mosaics of the Church= es once belonged to a religion which had an esoteric meaning. It is only wh= en these pieces are restored to the places they originally occupied that th= eir hidden significance can be perceived, and the real meaning of the dogma= s of Christianity understood. To do all this, however, requires a knowledge= of the Secret Doctrine as it exists in the esoteric foundation of other re= ligions; and this knowledge is not in the hands of the Clergy, for the Chur= ch has hidden, and since lost, the keys.[Page 5]" http://www.theosophy.ca/ArchbishopCanterbury.htm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Sat Apr 26 08:15:18 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 38002 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2008 15:15:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2008 15:15:17 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d21.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.207) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2008 15:15:17 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c64.230243aa (37031) for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 11:14:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from webmail-me13 (webmail-me13.webmail.aol.com [64.12.88.205]) by cia-db02.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB021-90a7481346efd9; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 11:14:55 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 11:14:55 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.199.151.243 In-Reply-To: <288922.27743.qm@web52606.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36240-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.199.151.243 by webmail-me13.sysops.aol.com (64.12.88.205) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sat, 26 Apr 2008 11:14:55 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA75C76B1CBF9D-63C-B78@webmail-me13.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.144.207 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=GlB9afnEronDV5uxmv2QtOSgFfgv-6i5RnVkn1G61Hl8NK6mHg X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43698 But they can't.=C2=A0 They're all herbivores! Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano=20 -----Original Message----- From: Martin To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 9:36 am Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health Well let the older candidates have a meal here: http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,549788,00.html On the menu: "The Essence of the Golden Buddha,"=20 "Phoenix Rising,"=20 "Jasmine Flowers with 1,000 Layers"=20 "Look for the Treasure in the Desert Sand." They must have know about Leadbeater for: Children under 15 are not allowed in the penis restaurant; the hormones are said to interfere with natural growth... --- MKR wrote: > We need to look at Chuck's humor. He is joking. He > has been around TS in > Wheaton for a long time and we need someone like him > to bring common sense > from time to time. All of us who have known him on > the maillist know he is a > real theosophist at heart and that is what counts. >=20 > MKR >=20 > On 4/26/08, Jokela Petri > wrote: > > > > That=C2=B4s a pretty rude comment about her. I have > heard her speaking so > > many times. > > She is one of the best international lecturers of > TS. She has done her > > studies on theosophy very well. > > One can find that out in her talks. She has lived > teachings in practice > > in the best way she has been able. > > She has always been very hard worker. Her memory > what comes to names of > > members has been always amazing. > > I belive she has hold the candel for Theosophy and > the Society. > > Sure I have heard her being tough and demanding > boss for those who work > > at Adyar. > > But loving kindness attitude has increased on her > within last few years. > > Toward me she has been very loving as well during > bad as well during and > > good times. > > > > PJ > > > > Drpsionic@aol.com kirjoitti: > > > > > > > > > In the 30 years she has been president there > have always been > > > questions about her mental health, usually from > those who heard her > > > speak. :) > > > > > > Chuck the Heretic > > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: MKR > > mkr777%40gmail.com >> > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > > theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com > >; > > > theos-L@yahoogroups.com > > theos-L%40yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:22 am > > > Subject: Theos-World TS Election - Radha > Burnier's Health > > > > > > In the election of International President, the > issue of Radha Burnier's > > > health has become central. We have seen how her > health was reported to > > be > > > good early last year and then in the end of last > year doubts were cast > > by > > > some National Secretaries about her physical and > mental health and her > > > fitness to carryon the duties of the President. > > > > > > To allay these doubts, early this month, two > physicians declared Radha > > > Burnier fully fit, both mentally and physically. > I discussed these on > > this > > > maillist. However, some readers wanted to see > scanned copies of > > > originals to > > > convince themselves about the veracity of the > certifications. > > > > > > Here is a very easy way to confirm the above > facts. Anyone interested > > can > > > send e-mail to candidates, International > Officers, and National > > > Secretaries(Presidents). The email addresses are > available in the Adyar > > > Website. Any responses received can be posted > here for the benefit of > > > all of > > > us. Multiple source verification is the norm in > the journalistic field. > > > MKR > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > >=20 > > >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] >=20 >=20 __________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and=20 know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt= =3DAhu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ =20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dna_and_spirit@yahoo.com Sat Apr 26 09:32:53 2008 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 96304 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2008 16:32:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2008 16:32:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n51a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.145) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2008 16:32:51 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n51.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Apr 2008 16:32:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Apr 2008 16:32:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Apr 2008 16:32:51 -0000 X-Sender: dna_and_spirit@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 55759 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2008 11:41:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2008 11:41:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n71.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (98.136.44.36) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2008 11:41:54 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n71.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Apr 2008 11:41:54 -0000 X-Received: from [69.147.84.95] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Apr 2008 11:41:54 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp205.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Apr 2008 11:41:54 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 432393.39419.bm@omp205.mail.sp1.yahoo.com X-Received: (qmail 20218 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Apr 2008 11:41:54 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: ygfCp4cVM1liuM4FM1ViHcO2VCz0zVc_B8Lr0Fi9bxWf8pvuGP_C7Mw06U55iZA1vdgRBi3gf0_4tX76u0Jw37aFk9eo_7u_dQ-- X-Received: from [205.206.26.149] by web45814.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 04:41:53 PDT Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 04:41:53 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <265519.19704.qm@web45814.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 98.136.44.36 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Donald Addams Subject: DNA Activation & Repair via New Sound Frequencies X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=344252569; y=01K1h0fphFFb_KBVpP8IT2NHLqFkOm7WuxBKlQumob5ZqtM7nfDlmck X-Yahoo-Profile: dna_and_spirit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-eGroups-Approved-By: eldon_tucker via web; 26 Apr 2008 16:32:49 -0000 X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43699 Hi Folks! New member here, wanted to say hi, introduce myself and also share a bit on what I have been working on. My name is Donald Adams, I'm a scientific researcher. Been working on a project for the last 7 years, a significant spin off of which has resulted in the novel discovery of new curious sound frequencies which appear to be able to possibly affect DNA. Specifically, I strongly suspect both activation and repair may be possible. I have a test group of approximately 600 volunteers. Many of which have been reporting all kinds of positive and dramatic phenomena related to regeneration, healing, well being..... and I do mean dramatic. I'd be happy to provide more information on this and even give anyone samples of these audio frequencies to experiment with if their interested? I could post a link to the group, but not sure of what the protocol for that sort of thing is here as Im still new. if you would like top get access to these frequencies. They are in the form of MP3 files and can be easily played on your computer and you can burn them to CD and play them on your car stereo or whatever. I would appreciate any feedback and observations that you have if you use them as that is helpful to me in my research. I've gotten a lot of response to date and its very encouraging but a bit overwhelming at times to stay on top of. I want to point out to, right off the bat, that I'm not a medical professional and am not qualified to treat or diagnose anything medically. If you want to join our volunteer group and start experimenting with these frequencies, I would ask that you read and agree to my disclaimer that basically says you know I have said in advance "I'm not a doctor", that sort of thing. You can experimentation by simply emailing me at; dna_frequencies AT aweber.com (replace AT with the @ symbol to email me ) I can send you back a link on your request to fill in the disclaimer form and then the download link you need to get started if you would like. Looking forward to out mutual future discussions! Very Best Regards D --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mpsas77@yahoo.com Sat Apr 26 09:50:39 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mpsas77@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 21674 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2008 16:50:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2008 16:50:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n14c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.117) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2008 16:50:39 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n14.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Apr 2008 16:50:39 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Apr 2008 16:50:39 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Apr 2008 16:50:39 -0000 Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 16:50:38 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <265519.19704.qm@web45814.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.117 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 209.73.164.226 From: "mpsas77" Subject: Re: DNA Activation & Repair via New Sound Frequencies X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=318971721; y=bbCTJMIj4R5wY9OClzyKbZVc27NcsD0nmsK6GEymji7YLw X-Yahoo-Profile: mpsas77 X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43700 Donald, That sounds too interesting to pass up. Most of us are interested in the effects of sound, and its potential for healing. I'd like to listen to an Mp3. Can we download one of them somewhere, after we look at your disclaimer? Marilyn --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Donald Addams wrote: > > > > Hi Folks! > > New member here, wanted to say hi, introduce myself and also share a bit on what I have been working on. > > My name is Donald Adams, I'm a scientific researcher. Been working on a project for the last 7 years, a significant spin off of which has resulted in the novel discovery of new curious sound frequencies which appear to be able to possibly affect DNA. Specifically, I strongly suspect both activation and repair may be possible. > > I have a test group of approximately 600 volunteers. Many of which have been reporting all kinds of positive and dramatic phenomena related to regeneration, healing, well being..... and I do mean dramatic. > > I'd be happy to provide more information on this and even give anyone samples of these audio frequencies to experiment with if their interested? > > I could post a link to the group, but not sure of what the protocol for that sort of thing is here as Im still new. > > if you would like top get access to these frequencies. They are in the form of MP3 files and can be easily played on your computer and you can burn them to CD and play them on your car stereo or whatever. I would appreciate any feedback and observations that you have if you use them as that is helpful to me in my research. > > I've gotten a lot of response to date and its very encouraging but a bit overwhelming at times to stay on top of. > > I want to point out to, right off the bat, that I'm not a medical professional and am not qualified to treat or diagnose anything medically. > > If you want to join our volunteer group and start experimenting with these frequencies, I would ask that you read and agree to my disclaimer that basically says you know I have > said in advance "I'm not a doctor", that sort of thing. > > You can experimentation by simply emailing me at; > > dna_frequencies AT aweber.com > > (replace AT with the @ symbol to email me ) > > I can send you back a link on your request to fill in the disclaimer form and then the download link you need to get started if you would like. > > Looking forward to out mutual future discussions! > > Very Best Regards > D > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > From mkr777@gmail.com Sat Apr 26 10:45:57 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 50776 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2008 17:45:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2008 17:45:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.251) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2008 17:45:55 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c5so1107772anc.69 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 10:45:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.33.13 with SMTP id g13mr9652634ang.96.1209231954051; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 10:45:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 10:45:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 12:45:53 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <03ee01c8a7a6$b96d31d0$15113456@khidr> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <03ee01c8a7a6$b96d31d0$15113456@khidr> X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.251 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=UGwsueron6UBqI2NDfik54LdnJBCK5i1YEqArUL1doEwaVkadKE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43701 The GS are supposed to pass on the info to their members. But so far I have not seen any of them have done it. If don't see messages here, you will continue to be in the dark and that is great advantage for organizational leaders. Passing on the info, will make them look not that smart. Let us see if any of them get some awakening in their daily prayers. I am still wondering if even a single reader here who has doubts about them has contacted/called their NS; probably not. mkr On 4/26/08, Morten Nymann Olesen wrote: > > > To all readers > > MKR wrote: > > "I am sure that all the GC members/secretaries have in their possession > the > doctors' certificates. For the sake of justice, these should have been > distributed to members to keep them informed of the fact." > > So do you think one aught to send "doctors' certificates" on all TS > members or only the leaders of TS? > Is not not much more a question of you shall know them on their fruits? > > - - - - - - - - > > I will add this link, where everyone can Look up Gregory Tillett's > extended biography of C. W. Leadbeater, and read all about his "fruits" and > his karmic pomp and circumstance. > http://ses.library.usyd.edu.au/handle/2123/1623 > > Here is C. W. Leadbeater in his casual dress doing his best to portray > himself as an Arhat: > http://www.reformedlcc.org/Quickstart/ImageLib/Bishop_Leadbeater_003a.jpg > > - - - - - - - > > M. Sufilight > > H. P. Blavatsky said: > "The Society founded to remedy the glaring evils of Christianity, to shun > bigotry and intolerance, cant and superstition and to cultivate real > universal love extending even to the dumb brute". > (The Collected Writings of H. P. Blavatsky, vol. 7, p.246) > > Master KH wrote in a Mahatma Letter: > For the opposition represents enormous vested interests, and they have > enthusiastic help from the Dugpas -- in Bhootan and the Vatican! > (Here is all of Mahtama Letter, No. 55. Dugpas are the same as selfish > Magicians.) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: MKR > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 2:14 PM > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health > > Thanks for your feedback. > > If there has been any false or incorrect information in my msgs, by now we > would have seen a barrage of emails correcting them and not a single > message > has shown up. > > I am sure that all the GC members/secretaries have in their possession the > doctors' certificates. For the sake of justice, these should have been > distributed to members to keep them informed of the fact. > > Some secretaries were very enthusiastic in sending messages to their > members > supporting one candidate over the other and the simple justification was > the > health of Radha Burnier based on their personal opinion. > > When two Doctors examine Radha Burnier and give written certificates about > her physical and mental fitness, we should expect the general secretaries > to > have the same enthusiasm to distribute the information. I have not yet > seen > it. > > Leaders set the tone to the organization. The motto of TS is "There is > No Religion Higher Than Truth". Let us distribute the simple truth > about the health issue which is now central to the election. > > mkr > > On 4/26/08, Anton Rozman > > wrote: > > > > All of us who run independent theosophical web sites or participate > > on independent mail-lists have a an opportunity to meet the TS > > members' need and right to be informed, but we should take care to > > not provoke further divisions and should strive to reach our common > > interest. > > > > There are no elements to suspect that the intention to bring forward > > the relative information isn't sincere and that the transcription of > > doctors' certificates is not genuine, until the opposite is proven. > > > > The information speaks for itself. The date of issue and the > > mentioning of the Theosophical Society in the certificates indicate > > that they are somehow connected with the election process. > > > > Anton > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com>, MKR > > wrote: > > > > > > In the election of International President, the issue of Radha > > Burnier's > > > health has become central. We have seen how her health was reported > > to be > > > good early last year and then in the end of last year doubts were > > cast by > > > some National Secretaries about her physical and mental health and > > her > > > fitness to carryon the duties of the President. > > > > > > To allay these doubts, early this month, two physicians declared > > Radha > > > Burnier fully fit, both mentally and physically. I discussed these > > on this > > > maillist. However, some readers wanted to see scanned copies of > > originals to > > > convince themselves about the veracity of the certifications. > > > > > > Here is a very easy way to confirm the above facts. Anyone > > interested can > > > send e-mail to candidates, International Officers, and National > > > Secretaries(Presidents). The email addresses are available in the > > Adyar > > > Website. Any responses received can be posted here for the benefit > > of all of > > > us. Multiple source verification is the norm in the journalistic > > field. > > > MKR > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Mvandertak@yahoo.com Sat Apr 26 12:20:37 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mvandertak@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 70777 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2008 19:20:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2008 19:20:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52604.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.207) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2008 19:20:35 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 11139 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Apr 2008 19:20:31 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Bs2MwLwVM1lzv7V9wujWzJuouz6QcWImbrNpjp8DJKvEZl.W1vPsYIcWVy..rG6qfCIXW2UlQtRvMY0GUmVG7j9SOmaSKhC0.mDI4ZkkKCEQi60cL1QH2Q-- X-Received: from [82.217.39.103] by web52604.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 12:20:31 PDT Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 12:20:31 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <265519.19704.qm@web45814.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <528648.10860.qm@web52604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.207 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Martin Subject: Re: Theos-World DNA Activation & Repair via New Sound Frequencies X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=38276385; y=wP5k4VRCUiS2L6sZyS1jlwQuu9Q8iYh1Aw8zOMDlK3Pgh0xeLg X-Yahoo-Profile: mvandertak X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43702 Hi Donald, welcome. Have you read about R.Rife? http://www.rife.org/ --- Donald Addams wrote: > > > Hi Folks! > > New member here, wanted to say hi, introduce > myself and also share a bit on what I have been > working on. > > My name is Donald Adams, I'm a scientific > researcher. Been working on a project for the last 7 > years, a significant spin off of which has resulted > in the novel discovery of new curious sound > frequencies which appear to be able to possibly > affect DNA. Specifically, I strongly suspect both > activation and repair may be possible. > > I have a test group of approximately 600 > volunteers. Many of which have been reporting all > kinds of positive and dramatic phenomena related to > regeneration, healing, well being..... and I do mean > dramatic. > > I'd be happy to provide more information on this > and even give anyone samples of these audio > frequencies to experiment with if their interested? > > I could post a link to the group, but not sure of > what the protocol for that sort of thing is here as > Im still new. > > if you would like top get access to these > frequencies. They are in the form of MP3 files and > can be easily played on your computer and you can > burn them to CD and play them on your car stereo or > whatever. I would appreciate any feedback and > observations that you have if you use them as that > is helpful to me in my research. > > I've gotten a lot of response to date and its very > encouraging but a bit overwhelming at times to stay > on top of. > > I want to point out to, right off the bat, that > I'm not a medical professional and am not qualified > to treat or diagnose anything medically. > > If you want to join our volunteer group and start > experimenting with these frequencies, I would ask > that you read and agree to my disclaimer that > basically says you know I have > said in advance "I'm not a doctor", that sort of > thing. > > You can experimentation by simply emailing me at; > > dna_frequencies AT aweber.com > > (replace AT with the @ symbol to email me ) > > I can send you back a link on your request to fill > in the disclaimer form and then the download link > you need to get started if you would like. > > Looking forward to out mutual future discussions! > > Very Best Regards > D > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with > Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From jokelap@dnainternet.net Sat Apr 26 13:41:29 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: jokelap@dnainternet.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 52805 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2008 20:41:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2008 20:41:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.dnainternet.fi) (87.94.96.112) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2008 20:41:25 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (223-243.adsl.lpoy.dnainternet.fi [78.27.77.243]) by smtp2.dnainternet.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ACA4CB08 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 23:41:23 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <48139374.2070102@dnainternet.net> Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 23:41:24 +0300 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: <8CA75587677A478-1490-288C@webmail-db07.sysops.aol.com> <4812BBF5.6060508@dnainternet.net> <8CA75C69ECD30EE-63C-B26@webmail-me13.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8CA75C69ECD30EE-63C-B26@webmail-me13.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 87.94.96.112 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Jokela Petri Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=281705993; y=OGJ3JLEv5C7flkt4qzhIPp9BGNpPY4Ouo3aQyBuRjj8tezfzHU8v X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43703 Thanx for making it clearer. I have heard that some people have started to cry when they have asked something about her after lecture - all that because of her attitude. In Finland after her talk someone asked totally something out of the subject of the lecture, she seemed to be pretty blunt on the video and ignored the question. Yes, also some people complaine that at Adyar there is not friendly athomsphere because of her. That´s why so many wants to have someone new who brings something new into the Society. Someone told me that even indians want to have someone else, but I do not know how many of them has really said so. In 2006 I saw something amazing. I was standing there with an friend. Radha was walking from Headquarters to the gathering we had before convention where they offer something sweet and so on. People make some kind of lane which through Radha walked among us. People were praising her. Seems personality cult to me. I wondered where my friend vanished. Later I heard him telling me that he hates personality cult and couldnt stand it. I was also pretty amazed because of it though tried to fit in following what people were doing, but thinking in my mind what a heck is this about. Well, this is bad gossipping and she maye hear this as she always does and maybe she will give me a slapp on my face. :-) Anyway, I have also been complained about being too straight in office. People feel very hurt because of it sometimes. PJ Drpsionic@aol.com kirjoitti: > > You did not hear her speak at Olcott right after she was elected. It > was so bad that when an outsider asked who she was, he was told that > it was just some woman from India staying there because no one wanted > to admit that she was the society President. > > I had one of my best lines at her expense years ago at the US > convention. They showed that dreadful movie that she was in and at > one point in the dialogue, when her character is asked if she would > marry an American, her character responded, "I don't understand > them." At that point, possessed by mirth demons, I blurted out, "She > still doesn't!" And everyone in the room roared with laughter. > > Chuck the Heretic > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jokela Petri > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 12:21 am > Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health > > That´s a pretty rude comment about her. I have heard her speaking so > many times. > She is one of the best international lecturers of TS. She has done her > studies on theosophy very well. > One can find that out in her talks. She has lived teachings in practice > in the best way she has been able. > She has always been very hard worker. Her memory what comes to names of > members has been always amazing. > I belive she has hold the candel for Theosophy and the Society. > Sure I have heard her being tough and demanding boss for those who work > at Adyar. > But loving kindness attitude has increased on her within last few years. > Toward me she has been very loving as well during bad as well during and > good times. > > PJ > > Drpsionic@aol.com kirjoitti: > > > > > > In the 30 years she has been president there have always been > > questions about her mental health, usually from those who heard her > > speak. :) > > > > Chuck the Heretic > > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: MKR > > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > ; > > theos-L@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:22 am > > Subject: Theos-World TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health > > > > In the election of International President, the issue of Radha Burnier's > > health has become central. We have seen how her health was reported > to be > > good early last year and then in the end of last year doubts were > cast by > > some National Secretaries about her physical and mental health and her > > fitness to carryon the duties of the President. > > > > To allay these doubts, early this month, two physicians declared Radha > > Burnier fully fit, both mentally and physically. I discussed these > on this > > maillist. However, some readers wanted to see scanned copies of > > originals to > > convince themselves about the veracity of the certifications. > > > > Here is a very easy way to confirm the above facts. Anyone > interested can > > send e-mail to candidates, International Officers, and National > > Secretaries(Presidents). The email addresses are available in the Adyar > > Website. Any responses received can be posted here for the benefit of > > all of > > us. Multiple source verification is the norm in the journalistic field. > > MKR > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > From Mvandertak@yahoo.com Sat Apr 26 14:36:41 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Mvandertak@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 96026 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2008 21:36:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2008 21:36:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n30a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.252) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2008 21:36:38 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n30.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Apr 2008 21:36:38 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Apr 2008 21:36:38 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Apr 2008 21:36:38 -0000 Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 21:36:36 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 209.131.38.252 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 209.73.164.200 From: "Martin" Subject: Atlantic weapons X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=38276385; y=1WpJHKsna9SN5nH6wN_mQ416h9xYlvNWHWHAu14_dsWzRHi9vw X-Yahoo-Profile: mvandertak X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43704 Well its ready the Electromagnetic Railgun. Read all about this weapon=20 from a long past here: http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2004-06/electromagnetic-railgun Pralaya will be here soon, although you may say its not time yet, who=20 really knows the ways of the Dzyans? From mkr777@gmail.com Sat Apr 26 16:35:57 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60324 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2008 23:35:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Apr 2008 23:35:54 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.244) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2008 23:35:54 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c25so997780ana.84 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 16:35:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.37.20 with SMTP id k20mr9992851ank.5.1209252954065; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 16:35:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 16:35:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 18:35:54 -0500 To: theos-L@yahoogroups.com, theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.244 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS President Election - Dieu's View X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=uIliktzJuUkTomUeu3w7PzgY6CxCmqZcqrli43OGIrCseRFV8Fg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43705 Ms Tran-Thi Kim-Dieu, Chairman of the European Federation of the TS, sent a message to many theosophists. She has been Chairman since 1995 and I am told she is influential in European theosophical circles. She is in the GC and is one of Algeo's nominators. In her message of 3/20/2008 distributed to many, she says: "I have been and am sick in every sense of the term with Radha's attitude. What a pity that such a great soul now errs because of the misfunctioning of the brain! The letter the sections received is not written by her ....But it is signed by her!" The statement speaks for itself. I sent her two msgs, requesting her to tell us more about what she means "Radha's attitude." So far I have not heard from her. Again, the central issue still is Radha's health, not her age. I do not know if the two doctors' certificates have had any effect. If I hear from Dieu, I will let you all know. mkr PS: Routinely, letters written by top officials are drafted by someone else and edited by the signatory as needed. Also, top leaders have speech writers whose job is to write speeches delivered by the leader. For those in the US, it should come as no surprise. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Sat Apr 26 19:01:50 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 7791 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2008 02:01:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2008 02:01:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d23.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.137) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2008 02:01:48 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c14.373a31e4 (34898) for ; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 22:01:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from Webmail-mg16 (webmail-mg16.sim.aol.com [64.12.142.164]) by cia-da01.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA017-88524813de8510e; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 22:01:41 -0400 References: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 22:01:41 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.199.151.243 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36240-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.199.151.243 by Webmail-mg16.sim.aol.com (64.12.142.164) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sat, 26 Apr 2008 22:01:41 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA7621C4C3B8A1-A54-471E@Webmail-mg16.sim.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.139.137 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Atlantic weapons X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=lR5VtLAY4IVHoZ7esYC_K1_Ml0-npd6v4c5Fpc22A9Q8Hhqz5A X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43706 Hardly news.? There is actually a small, commercial version available that shoots small rings or ball bearings. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: Martin To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 4:36 pm Subject: Theos-World Atlantic weapons Well its ready the Electromagnetic Railgun. Read all about this weapon from a long past here: http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2004-06/electromagnetic-railgun Pralaya will be here soon, although you may say its not time yet, who really knows the ways of the Dzyans? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Mvandertak@yahoo.com Sat Apr 26 23:15:02 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mvandertak@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 59636 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2008 06:14:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2008 06:14:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52608.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.211) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2008 06:14:59 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 6572 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Apr 2008 06:14:58 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: HMEr0bwVM1kfx0dM_YZou8VlCX9zBmfGyIONKDCldXLxLWl7gTrNj_I9ALJ54dYesa8is_oXikffHUjWXp6p4AjFhz6Ghux9fICzEuMa2tcWkv_4y2XyLtIzlALrO8tk.kebAOy2sBGDBGZlrldkuarXpzqNTxerIw-- X-Received: from [82.217.39.103] by web52608.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 23:14:58 PDT Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 23:14:58 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8CA7621C4C3B8A1-A54-471E@Webmail-mg16.sim.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <500821.5566.qm@web52608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.211 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Martin Subject: Re: Theos-World Atlantic weapons X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=38276385; y=oYzyD2QdQpy1MxjoHtxq9aEhSdfdaVIqhFM2oPw_A2iDxAvVsw X-Yahoo-Profile: mvandertak X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43707 True to a certain yes. However, this gun can vaporise anything in a 300 mile radius... --- Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > Hardly news.? There is actually a small, commercial > version available that shoots small rings or ball > bearings. > > Chuck the Heretic > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 4:36 pm > Subject: Theos-World Atlantic weapons > > > > > > > Well its ready the Electromagnetic Railgun. Read all > about this weapon > from a long past here: > > http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2004-06/electromagnetic-railgun > > Pralaya will be here soon, although you may say its > not time yet, who > really knows the ways of the Dzyans? > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From Mvandertak@yahoo.com Sat Apr 26 23:16:43 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mvandertak@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 99060 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2008 06:16:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2008 06:16:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52607.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.210) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2008 06:16:43 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 29930 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Apr 2008 06:16:42 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: VYnqgaIVM1nawIk6LBn7PZibVP8V_Sp.Pa_el7R_CMPOYnCGak2JlaVYsrFoShkkluIZBKnrU7rWqcNpH5M3qE.wYjZhWGn.n0nhS.UWIMwQnyQuVAEM1Q-- X-Received: from [82.217.39.103] by web52607.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 26 Apr 2008 23:16:42 PDT Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 23:16:42 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <528648.10860.qm@web52604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <459990.28406.qm@web52607.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.210 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Martin Subject: Re: Theos-World DNA Activation & Repair via New Sound Frequencies X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=38276385; y=6CgwoNc322CIyqL0UkZaFpT7EVAeZV8VzEZpHEPrDse6YFTLHA X-Yahoo-Profile: mvandertak X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43708 Well here a followup, seems Donald is another artist trying to sell you something we didnt ask for... --- Martin wrote: > Hi Donald, welcome. > Have you read about R.Rife? > http://www.rife.org/ > > > > --- Donald Addams wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Folks! > > > > New member here, wanted to say hi, introduce > > myself and also share a bit on what I have been > > working on. > > > > My name is Donald Adams, I'm a scientific > > researcher. Been working on a project for the last > 7 > > years, a significant spin off of which has > resulted > > in the novel discovery of new curious sound > > frequencies which appear to be able to possibly > > affect DNA. Specifically, I strongly suspect both > > activation and repair may be possible. > > > > I have a test group of approximately 600 > > volunteers. Many of which have been reporting all > > kinds of positive and dramatic phenomena related > to > > regeneration, healing, well being..... and I do > mean > > dramatic. > > > > I'd be happy to provide more information on this > > and even give anyone samples of these audio > > frequencies to experiment with if their > interested? > > > > I could post a link to the group, but not sure > of > > what the protocol for that sort of thing is here > as > > Im still new. > > > > if you would like top get access to these > > frequencies. They are in the form of MP3 files and > > can be easily played on your computer and you can > > burn them to CD and play them on your car stereo > or > > whatever. I would appreciate any feedback and > > observations that you have if you use them as that > > is helpful to me in my research. > > > > I've gotten a lot of response to date and its > very > > encouraging but a bit overwhelming at times to > stay > > on top of. > > > > I want to point out to, right off the bat, that > > I'm not a medical professional and am not > qualified > > to treat or diagnose anything medically. > > > > If you want to join our volunteer group and > start > > experimenting with these frequencies, I would ask > > that you read and agree to my disclaimer that > > basically says you know I have > > said in advance "I'm not a doctor", that sort of > > thing. > > > > You can experimentation by simply emailing me > at; > > > > dna_frequencies AT aweber.com > > > > (replace AT with the @ symbol to email me ) > > > > I can send you back a link on your request to > fill > > in the disclaimer form and then the download link > > you need to get started if you would like. > > > > Looking forward to out mutual future > discussions! > > > > Very Best Regards > > D > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all > with > > Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From anton_rozman@yahoo.com Sat Apr 26 23:22:19 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: anton_rozman@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24076 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2008 06:22:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2008 06:22:19 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n24a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.234) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2008 06:22:19 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n24.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Apr 2008 06:22:19 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Apr 2008 06:22:18 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Apr 2008 06:22:18 -0000 Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 06:22:18 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4812E9CD.3000608@dnainternet.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 209.131.38.234 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 209.73.164.201 From: "Anton Rozman" Subject: Re: Some news and personal oppnions about the Presidential election of TS 2008 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=192242904; y=-ZceNyg1vNSxIcpAgL0ZHJWY4h41BvR11aCWC_bM4rt4nPBlvSTr X-Yahoo-Profile: anton_rozman X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43709 In the Rules and Regulations of the TS we can read: "The General=20 Council shall be the Governing Body of The Theosophical Society." So,=20 it is the General Council which shall determine the policy of the=20 Society and not the President. The President is the "First=20 Administrator," the manager, who executes the policy determined by the=20 GC. And, as the GC shall be a body of representatives of all the=20 members of the Society, there are all the members of the Society who=20 shall determine the policy of the Society and, on the other hand, the=20 reason why the President is directly elected by all the members of the=20 Society. This is the idea, the democratic ideal in the Rules and=20 Regulations of the TS. And in this respect the issue of the health of=20 the President should be at all out of the question. Anton From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Sun Apr 27 00:46:35 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 52551 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2008 07:46:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2008 07:46:34 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mx04.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.14) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2008 07:46:33 -0000 X-Received: from 56341115.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.17.21] helo=khidr) by mx04.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1Jq1ai-0001Zc-0K for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 09:46:33 +0200 Message-ID: <005501c8a83a$d7102c30$15113456@khidr> To: References: <8CA75587677A478-1490-288C@webmail-db07.sysops.aol.com> <4812BBF5.6060508@dnainternet.net> <8CA75C69ECD30EE-63C-B26@webmail-me13.sysops.aol.com> <48139374.2070102@dnainternet.net> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 09:46:44 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.14 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=uIDl_ZqJv2avNInI-Q2JqNzorSEqAi9J8w36Mce7qGJr X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43710 To all readers My views are: PJ said: "People make some kind of lane which through Radha walked among us.=20 People were praising her. Seems personality cult to me. I wondered where my friend vanished. Later I=20 heard him telling me that he hates personality cult and couldnt stand it." M. Sufilight says: I would add, that in India, this "personality cult" thing towards a leader = or a Guru is quite common culturally speaking. It is a showing of of respec= t to a leader instead of contempt and disrespect, - so to find out if the G= uru or leader really have something to offer or not, instead the opposite -= a prejudiced reaction. In our western world we have a quite different view= upon the "Guru-thing". And that is why a 14 year old Guru from India from = time to time are able to fill an astrodome with interested followers. There are plenty of guides and initiates on the planet today. The problem f= or many would-be Seekers After Truth are that they are not easily able to d= iscern who is a fraud wellmeaning or otherwise - and who is not.=20 - - - - - -=20 >From Idries Shah's book "Learning how to Learn": "Man has few alternatives in his search for truth. He may rely upon his una= ided intellect, and gamble that he is capable of perceiving truth or even t= he way to truth. This is a poor, but an attractive, gamble. Or he can gambl= e upon the claims of an individual or institution which claims to have such= a way. This gamble, too, is a poor one. Aside from a very few, wo/men in g= eneral lack a sufficiently developed perception to tell them:" Not to trust their own unaided mentation; Who or what to trust. "There are,= in consequence, two main schools of thought in this matter. Some say 'Foll= ow your own promptings'; the other says: 'Trust this or that intuition'. Ea= ch is really useless to the ordinary wo/man. Each will help him use up his = time." "The bitter truth is that before man can know his own inadequacy, or the co= mpetence of another man or institution, he must first learn something which= will enable him to perceive both. Note well that his perception itself is = a product of right study; not of instinct or emotional attraction to the in= dividual, nor yet of desiring to 'go it alone'. This is 'Learning How To Le= arn.' " "All this means, of course, that we are postulating here the need for prepa= ratory study before school work takes place. We deny that a man can study a= nd properly benefit from school work until he is equipped for it: any more = than a person can study space-navigation unless he has a grasp of mathemati= cs." "This is not to say that a man (or a woman) cannot have a sensation of trut= h. But the unorganized and fragmented mind which is most people's heritage = tends to distort the quality and quantity of this sensation, leading to alm= ost completely false conclusions about what can or should be done." "This is not to say, either, that man cannot take part in studies and activ= ities which impinge upon that portion of him which is connected with a high= er life and cognition. But the mere application of special techniques [ofte= n to everyone, regardless of their current state and requirements] will not= transform that man's consciousness. It will only feed into, and disturb, m= ore or less permanently, centers of thought and feeling where it does not b= elong. Thus it is that something which should be a blessing becomes a curse= . Sugar, shall we say, for a normal person is nutritionally useful. To a di= abetic, it can be poison." "Therefore, before the techniques of study and development are made availab= le to the student, he must be enabled to profit by them in the direction in= which they are supposed to lead, not in short-term indulgence." "Thus our curriculum takes two parts: the first is in the providing of mate= rials of a preparatory nature, in order to equip the individual to become a= student. The second is the development itself." "If we, or anybody else, supply such study or preparatory material prematur= ely, it will only operate on a lower level than it could. The result will b= e harmless at best. At worst, it will condition, train, the mind of the ind= ividual to think and behave in patterns which are nothing less than automat= ic. In this latter way one can make what seem to be converts, unwittingly p= lay upon emotions, on lesser desires and the conditioning propensity; train= people to loyalty to individuals, found and maintain institutions which se= em more or less serious or constructive. But no real progress towards knowl= edge of the human being and the other dimension in which he partly lives wi= ll in fact be made..." Is this what the different theosophical branches are doing today ? If not, then why not ? It could be to your advantage to read the text more than one time. Well, that were a few of my views on the issue. - - - - - - - - M. Sufilight H. P. Blavatsky said: "The Society founded to remedy the glaring evils of Christianity, to shun=20 bigotry and intolerance, cant and superstition and to cultivate real=20 universal love extending even to the dumb brute". (The Collected Writings of H. P. Blavatsky, vol. 7, p.246) Master KH wrote in a Mahatma Letter: For the opposition represents enormous vested interests, and they have=20 enthusiastic help from the Dugpas -- in Bhootan and the Vatican! (Here is all of Mahtama Letter, No. 55. Dugpas are the same as selfish=20 Magicians.) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jokela Petri=20 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 10:41 PM Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health Thanx for making it clearer. I have heard that some people have started to cry when they have asked something about her after lecture - all that because of her attitude. In= =20 Finland after her talk someone asked totally something out of the subject of the lectur= e, she seemed to be pretty blunt on the video and ignored the question. Yes, also some people complaine that at Adyar there is not friendly=20 athomsphere because of her. That=C2=B4s why so many wants to have someone new who brings something ne= w=20 into the Society. Someone told me that even indians want to have someone else, but I do=20 not know how many of them has really said so. In 2006 I saw something amazing. I was standing there with an friend.=20 Radha was walking from Headquarters to the gathering we had before convention where they offer=20 something sweet and so on. People make some kind of lane which through Radha walked among us.=20 People were praising her. Seems personality cult to me. I wondered where my friend vanished. Later I=20 heard him telling me that he hates personality cult and couldnt stand it. I was also pretty amazed because of it though=20 tried to fit in following what people were doing, but thinking in my mind what a heck is this about. Well, this is bad gossipping and she maye hear this as she always does=20 and maybe she will give me a slapp on my face. :-) Anyway, I have also been complained about being too straight in office.=20 People feel very hurt because of it sometimes. PJ Drpsionic@aol.com kirjoitti: > > You did not hear her speak at Olcott right after she was elected. It=20 > was so bad that when an outsider asked who she was, he was told that=20 > it was just some woman from India staying there because no one wanted=20 > to admit that she was the society President. > > I had one of my best lines at her expense years ago at the US=20 > convention. They showed that dreadful movie that she was in and at=20 > one point in the dialogue, when her character is asked if she would=20 > marry an American, her character responded, "I don't understand=20 > them." At that point, possessed by mirth demons, I blurted out, "She=20 > still doesn't!" And everyone in the room roared with laughter. > > Chuck the Heretic > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jokela Petri > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 12:21 am > Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health > > That=C2=B4s a pretty rude comment about her. I have heard her speaking = so > many times. > She is one of the best international lecturers of TS. She has done her > studies on theosophy very well. > One can find that out in her talks. She has lived teachings in practice > in the best way she has been able. > She has always been very hard worker. Her memory what comes to names of > members has been always amazing. > I belive she has hold the candel for Theosophy and the Society. > Sure I have heard her being tough and demanding boss for those who work > at Adyar. > But loving kindness attitude has increased on her within last few years= . > Toward me she has been very loving as well during bad as well during an= d > good times. > > PJ > > Drpsionic@aol.com kirjoitti: > > > > > > In the 30 years she has been president there have always been > > questions about her mental health, usually from those who heard her > > speak. :) > > > > Chuck the Heretic > > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano=20 > =20 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: MKR =20 > > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com = =20 > ; > > theos-L@yahoogroups.com =20 > > > Sent: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:22 am > > Subject: Theos-World TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health > > > > In the election of International President, the issue of Radha Burnie= r's > > health has become central. We have seen how her health was reported=20 > to be > > good early last year and then in the end of last year doubts were=20 > cast by > > some National Secretaries about her physical and mental health and he= r > > fitness to carryon the duties of the President. > > > > To allay these doubts, early this month, two physicians declared Radh= a > > Burnier fully fit, both mentally and physically. I discussed these=20 > on this > > maillist. However, some readers wanted to see scanned copies of > > originals to > > convince themselves about the veracity of the certifications. > > > > Here is a very easy way to confirm the above facts. Anyone=20 > interested can > > send e-mail to candidates, International Officers, and National > > Secretaries(Presidents). The email addresses are available in the Ady= ar > > Website. Any responses received can be posted here for the benefit of > > all of > > us. Multiple source verification is the norm in the journalistic fiel= d. > > MKR > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >=20 =20=20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Sun Apr 27 00:58:42 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 28964 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2008 07:58:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2008 07:58:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mx04.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.14) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2008 07:58:40 -0000 X-Received: from 56341115.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.17.21] helo=khidr) by mx04.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1Jq1mR-0001T1-00 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 09:58:39 +0200 Message-ID: <005e01c8a83c$886602b0$15113456@khidr> To: Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 09:58:51 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.14 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" Subject: The Present Vatican controlling EU!? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=1_m6MRq47-RCAQtaIXdpMcDXxHOLrSztOKIRhyLHtMkn X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43711 To all readers My views are: >>>The Council of Nicaea 325 AD<<< I am seeking to keep this article a bit short. So I am seeking to forward s= omne issues sourrounding politics today, the Gospels and the theosophical v= iews about them related to Catholic and Christian ones. The Council of Nica= ea was historically significant because it was the first effort to attain c= onsensus in the church through an assembly representing all of Christendom.= "It was the first occasion for the development of technical Christology." = Further, "Constantine in convoking and presiding over the council signaled = a measure of imperial control over the church." (Richard Kieckhefer (1989).= "Papacy".)=20 A special prominence was also attached to this council because the persecut= ion of Christians had just ended with the February 313 Edict of Milan by Em= perors Constantine and Licinius.=20 At the first Council of Nicaea in 325 CE, Constantine oversaw the creation = of the Nicene Creed, which is still repeated in churches to this day. Chris= tians who refused to assent to this creed were banished from the Empire or = otherwise silenced, though the church continued to engage in political in-f= ighting thinly disguised as theological debate. After the 'Christian' Const= antine returned home from Nicaea he had his wife suffocated and his son mur= dered. He deliberately remained unbaptized until his deathbed so that he co= uld continue his atrocities and still receive forgiveness of sins and a gua= ranteed place in heaven by being baptized at the last moment.=20 There are therefore a lot of historical evidence pointing to the fact that = the meeting in Nicea in year 325 after the beginning of the modern era was = a political meeting, and that the four gopsels chosen at the meeting was a = political decision more than a honest historical one. To just simply brush = this view away with, another opinion, because one have the hope that this v= iew is not true, is of course possible. But the historical facts sticks lik= e glue. We also know, that the study of history can be hampered by politica= l considerations and evidence colored by sources with an ax to grind.=20 As it was said in the movie The Da Vinci Code, We know for instance that th= e question of Jesus divinity was voted about as if the majority gathered at= this particular meeting had the right and proper level of wisdom to judge = about such a thing. This was how the early Church leaders payed their respe= ct to the very Origins of Life and Visdom. All this was done with a militan= t Emperor named Constantine as a leading chair. Voting about Jesus divinity= just shows how silly one can get, and it makes me wonder if they one day g= et the idea to vote about whether the Pope (and of course not the "theosoph= ical leaders") should be given the same respect. This is a Catholic Church = claiming to be build on a solid Rock. As theosophists, we can only disagree= , because we Know, and not because we have a official belief baptised in ig= norance like a Christian who seem to deny visdom its rightful place in peop= les lives.=20 >>>Emperor Constantine and his seal Labarum a military standard<<< Today we have that Emperor Constantine used a seal, which he had a vision a= bout it according to Eusebius of Caesarea, (lived 263-339 ad., - often refe= rred to as the father of Church history because of his work in recording th= e history of the early Christian church, especially Chronicle and Ecclesias= tical History.) The vision he had in a dream was told about by Eusebius' Hi= storia ecclesiae ("Church History"). The emperor saw the vision in Gaul on = his way to Rome, long before the battle with Maxentius: the phrase as he gi= ves it was "E=CE=BD T=CE=BF=CF=85t=CF=89, N=CE=B9=CE=BA=CE=B1!, "In this, b= e victorious!".=20 "In a later hagiographic memoir of the emperor that Eusebius wrote after Co= nstantine's death ("On the Life of Constantine," ca 337-339), the miraculou= s appearance came when the rival armies met at the Milvian Bridge. In this = later version, the emperor had been pondering the logical question of misfo= rtunes that befall armies that invoke the help of many different gods, and = decided to seek divine aid in the forthcoming battle from the One God. At n= oon Constantine saw a cross of light imposed over the sun. Attached to it, = in Greek characters, was the saying "E=CE=BD T=CE=BF=CF=85t=CF=89, N=CE=B9= =CE=BA=CE=B1!".=20 Not only Constantine, but the whole army saw the miracle. That night Christ= appeared to the emperor in a dream and told him to make a replica of the s= ign he had seen in the sky, which would be a sure defense in battle. Thus t= he element of the public miracle is logically reinforced by the account of = a private dream of an explanatory nature.=20 (Look here in Wikipedia: The Labarum was a military standard which displaye= d the first two Greek letters of the word Christ)=20 When one contemplates what has been going on in the various churches until = today, since this symbol called Labarum was given in use. It is known, that= it was used at even pagan tombs before emperor Constantine used it. The La= barum was a military standard, and have through the centuries since emperor= Constantine made it part of Christianity been used as a symbol in the vari= ous Catholic Churches and other Christian Churches - even as a symbol on th= eir altars. A symbol of Militant Christianity.=20 And saying that the Christian's have ended militant activity like the Catho= lics are trying to tell people officially, they with the other hand in secr= et accepts the Jesuit Order and the Opus Dei and its secret political and e= conomical activities, and in part Freemasonry. All this have been well docu= mented in at least the last hundred or two hundred years. Groups of freemas= ons exist, and not all of them are only of a Protestant nature, there are a= lso Catholic ones, who in secret have political and even militant agendas, = like "Just War". Some of its members are said to be working inside the Vati= can. Saying that the Christian religion is in no way heavily involved with = political issues and acitivities is a false claim, and some of the Churches= leaders of Christianity knows about it, and therfore they keep silent abou= t, because their aim is universal despotism, and the rest of reason among t= housands of fanatics.=20 Let me quote the so-called beloved Pope and his greedy political cravings f= rom the following recent article in one of the many newspapers who wrote ab= out it either on paper or on the Internet:=20 Pope says society to fail without Christian conscience=20 "VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Pope Benedict, speaking as the European Union m= arked its 50th anniversary without a mention of its religious heritage, sai= d a society that lacks a Christian conscience will end up failing. The Pope= 's comments came a day after he lambasted the European Union for not mentio= ning God and Europe's Christian roots in declarations marking its founding.= "A society in which the Christian conscience does not live anymore loses d= irection, does not know anymore where to go, ends up empty and bankrupt," t= he Pope told parish elders on Sunday. Such a conscience was needed to promo= te justice and a sense of responsibility among one another, he said. The re= marks came as the European Union celebrated its 50th birthday in a Berlin c= eremony that included unveiling a broad, aspirational "Berlin Declaration" = that left out mention of religion or the continent's Christian roots. But E= U leaders like German Chancellor Angela Merkel -- who unveiled Sunday's dec= laration -- as well as Italian Prime Minister Romano Prodi, reaffirmed thei= r support for its inclusion in a new EU treaty they want adopted by 2009."= =20 .......=20 "'What the result will be, I can't say,' Merkel, the daughter of a Protes= tant pastor, told a news conference. 'I am realistic and that means not so = optimistic.' The Pope made his displeasure over the matter clear in a stron= gly worded speech on Saturday, saying excluding values that helped forge it= s very soul meant Europe was committing a form of apostasy -- a total deser= tion of one's religion -- and doubting its own identity. The Pope, like his= predecessor John Paul, often calls for including God and Christianity in t= he European Constitution. Plans to put a reference to Europe's Christian ro= ots in a previous EU constitutional treaty were blocked by French President= Jacques Chirac."=20 (VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Pope Benedict, speaking as the European Union m= arked its 50th anniversary, Sunday, March 25th, 2007)=20 Christianity has nothing to do with visdom and compassionte wise magical ac= tivites. The Christian conscience, which the Pope craves, is nothing but a = worship of a doctrine based on falseness, deceit and fanatism.=20 We theosophists say, that there are wise magical activities and there are b= ad and stupid magical activities, especially those who keep people away fro= m learning about developing wisdom, developing the compassion of the Heart,= and when appropiate wise magical skills.=20 Jesus was said to use magical skills, to heal and similar. Despite of this = it seems that Jesus words: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto y= ou"; (Matthew 7:12) is only something we humans aught to keep, while Jesus = (and God) who is compassionate are somehow strangely being disallowed by th= e Christian Church leaders to teach us his own magical capabilities. And wh= en we talk about that despotism and double-talk is attached to the leadersh= ip of the Christian Churches it is being rejected by its leaders.=20 - - - - - - - - - M. Sufilight H. P. Blavatsky said: "The Society founded to remedy the glaring evils of Christianity, to shun=20 bigotry and intolerance, cant and superstition and to cultivate real=20 universal love extending even to the dumb brute". (The Collected Writings of H. P. Blavatsky, vol. 7, p.246) Master KH wrote in a Mahatma Letter: For the opposition represents enormous vested interests, and they have=20 enthusiastic help from the Dugpas -- in Bhootan and the Vatican! (Here is all of Mahtama Letter, No. 55. Dugpas are the same as selfish=20 Magicians.) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Sun Apr 27 01:00:38 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24471 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2008 08:00:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2008 08:00:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mx04.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.14) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2008 08:00:36 -0000 X-Received: from 56341115.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.17.21] helo=khidr) by mx04.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1Jq1oI-0002nQ-1h for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 10:00:35 +0200 Message-ID: <006b01c8a83c$cd4367b0$15113456@khidr> To: References: <000601c8a7a9$7b85d860$15113456@khidr> <8CA75C71C8FE1CF-63C-B5E@webmail-me13.sysops.aol.com> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 10:00:47 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.14 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" Subject: Re: Theos-World TO THE ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=O2MTNf8DgbHSb3T93U2TCGvqL5ljzjxdLA1albLaM0-5 X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43712 I could suggest, that you are on the look-out for why she and others did it= .=20 Because that woman has everything to do with Occultism.=20 :-) M. Sufilight ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Drpsionic@aol.com=20 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 5:12 PM Subject: Re: Theos-World TO THE ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY I'm sure that the old girl had a reason for writing it but I can't for li= fe of me figure out what it was. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano=20 -----Original Message----- From: Morten Nymann Olesen To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 9:26 am Subject: Theos-World TO THE ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY To all readers My views are: It might be well to be aware of the content of the following article, whi= ch was send by the TS to the Archbishop of Canterbury. Here are a few excerpts of the article... =E2=80=9CLucifer=E2=80=9D - TO THE ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY - Greeting (An Open Letter - The Blavatsky Pamphlets - No 1 - Reprinted from =E2=80= =9CLucifer=E2=80=9D Magazine 1887) "WE make use of an open letter to your Grace as a vehicle to convey to yo= u, and through you to the clergy, to their flocks, and to Christians genera= lly =E2=80=94 who regard us as the enemies of Christ =E2=80=94 a brief stat= ement of the position which Theosophy occupies in regard to Christianity as= we believe that the time for making that statement has arrived. =E2=80=9D= =20 Your Grace is no doubt aware that Theosophy is not a religion, but a phil= osophy at once religious and scientific; and that the chief work, so far, o= f the Theosophical Society has been to revive in each religion its own anim= ating spirit, by encouraging and helping enquiry into the true significance= of its doctrines and observances. Theosophists know that the deeper one pe= netrates into the meaning of the dogmas and ceremonies of all religions, th= e greater becomes their apparent underlying similarity, until finally a per= ception of their fundamental unity is reached. This common ground is no oth= er than Theosophy =E2=80=94 the Secret Doctrine of the ages; which, diluted= and disguised to suit the capacity of the multitude, and the requirements = of the time, has formed the living kernel of all religion. The Theosophical= Society has branches respectively composed of Buddhists. Hindoos, Mahomeda= ns, Parsees, Christians, and Freethinkers, who work together as brethren on= the common ground of Theosophy; and it is precisely because Theosophy is n= ot a religion, nor can for the multitude supply the place of a religion, th= at the success of the Society has been so great, not merely as regards its = growing membership and extending influence, but also in respect to the perf= ormance of the work it has undertaken =E2=80=94 the revival of spirituality= in religion, and the cultivation of the sentiment of BROTHERHOOD among men= .[Page 2]=20 We Theosophists believe that a religion is a natural incident in the life= of man in his present stage of development; and that although, in rare cas= es, individuals may be born without the religious sentiment, a community mu= st have a religion, that is to say, a uniting bond =E2=80=94 under penalty = of social decay and material annihilation. We believe that no religious doc= trine can be more than an attempt to picture to our present limited underst= andings, in the terms of our terrestrial experiences, great cosmical and sp= iritual truths, which in our normal state of consciousness we vaguely sense= , rather than actually perceive and comprehend; and a revelation, if it is = to reveal anything, must necessarily conform to the same earth-bound requir= ements of the human intellect. In our estimation, therefore, no religion ca= n be absolutely true, and none can be absolutely false. A religion is true = in proportion as it supplies the spiritual, moral and intellectual needs of= the time, and helps the development of mankind in these respects. It is fa= lse in proportion as it hinders that development, and offends the spiritual= , moral and intellectual portion of man's nature. And the transcendentally = spiritual ideas of the ruling powers of the Universe entertained by an Orie= ntal sage would be as false a religion for the African savage as the grovel= ling fetishism of the latter would be for the sage, although both views mus= t necessarily be true in degree, for both represent the highest ideas attai= nable by the respective individuals of the same cosmico-spiritual facts, wh= ich can never be known in their reality by man while he remains but man. Theosophists, therefore, are respectors of all the religions, and for the= religious ethics of Jesus they have profound admiration. It could not be o= therwise, for these teachings which have come down to us are the same as th= ose of Theosophy. So far, therefore, as modern Christianity makes good its = claim to be the practical religion taught by Jesus, Theosophists are with i= t heart and hand. So far as it goes contrary to those ethics, pure and simp= le, Theosophists are its opponents. Any Christian can, if he will, compare = the Sermon on the Mount with the dogmas of his church, and the spirit that = breathes in it, with the principles that animate this Christian civilizatio= n and govern his own life; and then he will be able to judge for himself ho= w far the religion of Jesus enters into his Christianity, and how far, ther= efore, he and Theosophists [Page 3] are agreed. But professing Christians, = especially the clergy, shrink from making this comparison. Like merchants w= ho fear to find themselves bankrupt, they seem to dread the discovery of a = discrepancy in their accounts which could not be made good by placing mater= ial assets as a set-off to spiritual liabilities. The comparison between th= e teachings of Jesus and the doctrines of the churches has, however, freque= ntly been made =E2=80=94 and often with great learning and critical acumen = =E2=80=94 both by those who would abolish Christianity and those who would = reform it; and the aggregate result of these comparisons, as your Grace mus= t be well aware, goes to prove that in almost every point the doctrines of = the churches and the practices of Christians are in direct opposition to th= e teachings of Jesus." "We are accustomed to say to the Buddhist, the Mahomedan, the Hindoo, or = the Parsee: "The road to Theosophy lies, for you, through your own religion= ". We say this because those creeds possess a deeply philosophical and esot= eric meaning, explanatory of the allegories under which they are presented = to the people; but we cannot say the same thing to Christians. The successo= rs of the Apostles never recorded the secret doctrine of Jesus =E2=80=94 th= e "mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven" =E2=80=94 which it was given to them= (his apostles) alone to know. [ S. Mark iv II; Matthew xiii; Luke viii 10 = ]. These have been suppressed, made away with, destroyed. What have come do= wn upon the stream of time are the maxims, the parables, the allegories and= the fables which Jesus expressly-intended for the spiritually deaf and bli= nd to be revealed later to the world, and which modern Christianity either = takes all literally, or interprets according to the fancies of the Fathers = of the secular church. In both cases they are like cut flowers: they are se= vered from the plant on which they grew, and from the root whence that plan= t drew its life. Were we, therefore, to encourage Christians, as we do the = votaries of other creeds, to study their own religion for themselves, the c= onsequence would be, not a knowledge of the meaning of its mysteries, but e= ither the revival of mediaeval superstition and intolerance, accompanied by= a formidable outbreak of mere lip-prayer and preaching =E2=80=94 such as r= esulted in the formation of the 239 Protestant sects of England alone =E2= =80=94 or else a great [Page 4] increase of scepticism, for Christianity ha= s no esoteric foundation known to those who profess it. For even you, my Lo= rd Primate of England, must be painfully aware that you know absolutely no = more of those "mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven" which Jesus taught his d= isciples, than does the humblest and most illiterate member of your church.= =20 It is easily understood, therefore, that Theosophists have nothing to say= against the policy of the Roman Catholic Church in forbidding or of the Pr= otestants churches in discouraging, any such private enquiry into the meani= ng of the "Christian" dogmas as would correspond to the esoteric study of o= ther religions. With their present ideas and knowledge, professing Christia= ns are not prepared to undertake a critical examination of their faith with= a promise of good results. Its inevitable effect would be to paralyze rath= er than stimulate their dormant religious sentiments; for biblical criticis= m and comparative mythology have proved conclusively =E2=80=94 to those, at= least, who have no vested interests, spiritual or temporal, in the mainten= ance of orthodoxy =E2=80=94 that the Christian religion, as it now exists, = is composed of the husks of Judaism, the shreds of paganism, and the ill-di= gested remains of gnosticism and neo-platonism. This curious conglomerate w= hich gradually formed itself round the recorded sayings (=CE=BB=CE=BF=CE=B3= =CE=B9=CE=B1 )of Jesus, has, after the lapse of ages, now begun to disinteg= rate, and to crumble away from the pure and precious gems of Theosophic tru= th which it has so long over lain and hidden, but could neither disfigure n= or destroy. Theosophy not only rescues these precious gems from the fate th= at threatens the rubbish in which they have been so long embedded, but save= s that rubbish itself from utter condemnation ; for it shows that the resul= t of biblical criticism is far from being the ultimate analysis of Christia= nity, as each of the pieces which compose the curious mosaics of the Church= es once belonged to a religion which had an esoteric meaning. It is only wh= en these pieces are restored to the places they originally occupied that th= eir hidden significance can be perceived, and the real meaning of the dogma= s of Christianity understood. To do all this, however, requires a knowledge= of the Secret Doctrine as it exists in the esoteric foundation of other re= ligions; and this knowledge is not in the hands of the Clergy, for the Chur= ch has hidden, and since lost, the keys.[Page 5]" http://www.theosophy.ca/ArchbishopCanterbury.htm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20=20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com Sun Apr 27 01:40:33 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 67056 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2008 08:40:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2008 08:40:33 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n17a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.124) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2008 08:40:33 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n17.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Apr 2008 08:40:31 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Apr 2008 08:40:30 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.48] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Apr 2008 08:40:30 -0000 Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 08:40:29 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <459990.28406.qm@web52607.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.124 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 209.73.164.200 From: "christinaleestemaker" Subject: Re: Theos-World DNA Activation & Repair via New Sound Frequencies X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162317756; y=ZgdQpufFN1Gnyead-JYXM3o5so3l6aMM93VK2NQGMpc010wBqKuL4zVCCq_X39w X-Yahoo-Profile: christinaleestemaker X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43713 -The best and economical way is the use of; THE VOICE of SILENCE Christina -- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Martin wrote: > > Well here a followup, seems Donald is another artist > trying to sell you something we didnt ask for... >=20 >=20 >=20 > --- Martin wrote: >=20 > > Hi Donald, welcome. > > Have you read about R.Rife? > > http://www.rife.org/ > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > --- Donald Addams wrote: > >=20 > > >=20=20=20=20=20=20 > > >=20=20=20=20 > > > Hi Folks! > > >=20=20=20=20 > > > New member here, wanted to say hi, introduce > > > myself and also share a bit on what I have been > > > working on. > > >=20=20=20=20 > > > My name is Donald Adams, I'm a scientific > > > researcher. Been working on a project for the last > > 7 > > > years, a significant spin off of which has > > resulted > > > in the novel discovery of new curious sound > > > frequencies which appear to be able to possibly > > > affect DNA. Specifically, I strongly suspect both > > > activation and repair may be possible. > > >=20=20=20=20 > > > I have a test group of approximately 600 > > > volunteers. Many of which have been reporting all > > > kinds of positive and dramatic phenomena related > > to > > > regeneration, healing, well being..... and I do > > mean > > > dramatic. > > >=20=20=20=20 > > > I'd be happy to provide more information on this > > > and even give anyone samples of these audio > > > frequencies to experiment with if their > > interested? > > >=20=20=20=20 > > > I could post a link to the group, but not sure > > of > > > what the protocol for that sort of thing is here > > as > > > Im still new.=20 > > >=20=20=20=20 > > > if you would like top get access to these > > > frequencies. They are in the form of MP3 files and > > > can be easily played on your computer and you can > > > burn them to CD and play them on your car stereo > > or > > > whatever. I would appreciate any feedback and > > > observations that you have if you use them as that > > > is helpful to me in my research. > > >=20=20=20=20 > > > I've gotten a lot of response to date and its > > very > > > encouraging but a bit overwhelming at times to > > stay > > > on top of. > > >=20=20=20=20 > > > I want to point out to, right off the bat, that > > > I'm not a medical professional and am not > > qualified > > > to treat or diagnose anything medically. > > >=20=20=20=20 > > > If you want to join our volunteer group and > > start > > > experimenting with these frequencies, I would ask > > > that you read and agree to my disclaimer that > > > basically says you know I have=20 > > > said in advance "I'm not a doctor", that sort of > > > thing. > > >=20=20=20=20 > > > You can experimentation by simply emailing me > > at; > > >=20=20=20=20 > > > dna_frequencies AT aweber.com > > >=20=20=20=20 > > > (replace AT with the @ symbol to email me ) > > >=20=20=20=20 > > > I can send you back a link on your request to > > fill > > > in the disclaimer form and then the download link > > > you need to get started if you would like. > > >=20=20=20=20 > > > Looking forward to out mutual future > > discussions! > > >=20=20=20=20 > > > Very Best Regards > > > D > > >=20 > > >=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 > > > --------------------------------- > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all > > with > > > Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > >=20 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > removed] > > >=20 > > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20=20=20=20=20=20 > > >=20 ___________________________________________________________________________= _________ > > Be a better friend, newshound, and=20 > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.=20 > > > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=3DAhu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 ___________________________________________________________________________= _________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and=20 > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http:// mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=3DAhu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > From mkr777@gmail.com Sun Apr 27 05:02:07 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 7432 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2008 12:02:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2008 12:02:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.241) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2008 12:02:04 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id d40so1035673and.114 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 05:02:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.140.1 with SMTP id n1mr3927679and.144.1209297723542; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 05:02:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 05:02:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 07:02:03 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4812E9CD.3000608@dnainternet.net> X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.241 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Some news and personal oppnions about the Presidential election of TS 2008 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=hSU3hVKbWRrKntHKBpgr3fXjz6R39A671bI53-0M7wbzwTrRAyM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43714 While agree with your interpretation of the rules, in practice, it is the President who really head the TS. That is what you will also see in the sections. The members go along and usually due to various complicated reasons rarely differ with the head. So we have to wait and see what is in store for the TS. One area where I have been repeatedly shouting is that the TS is not using Internet effectively. A passive website is ok. It is one way communication with the world which includes members. Two-way communication is lacking. With all the talk about Internet, technology, foresight, vision and all, for the last several years, even in the American Section, the progress is very very minimal. One wonders why? Perhaps it is the fear of inability to control flow and velocity of flow of info both ways. One cannot take advantage of time lag that paper mail allows. mkr On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 1:22 AM, Anton Rozman wrote: > In the Rules and Regulations of the TS we can read: "The General > Council shall be the Governing Body of The Theosophical Society." So, > it is the General Council which shall determine the policy of the > Society and not the President. The President is the "First > Administrator," the manager, who executes the policy determined by the > GC. And, as the GC shall be a body of representatives of all the > members of the Society, there are all the members of the Society who > shall determine the policy of the Society and, on the other hand, the > reason why the President is directly elected by all the members of the > Society. This is the idea, the democratic ideal in the Rules and > Regulations of the TS. And in this respect the issue of the health of > the President should be at all out of the question. > > Anton > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Sun Apr 27 05:33:45 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 52885 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2008 12:33:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2008 12:33:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.242) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2008 12:33:43 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id d40so1037574and.114 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 05:33:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.101.69.6 with SMTP id w6mr10293321ank.92.1209299622941; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 05:33:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 05:33:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 07:33:42 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.242 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS Elections -- Emperor(s) has no Cloths X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=FXCILBTyqjxCilyBb2BS6347RZafZqQxrYG25HRnJ57dRgz4fTA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43715 In another theosophical forum, a theosophist commented: "As usual, the problem is caused by those who, in their over-zealousness get things mixed up, because now several members with no official responsibilities feel they have the right to write their opinions, forward private letters, etc. Of course they have, but that shows me that we are, generally speaking, not mature enough, and that the laws of the world still rule on us." The key issue in the election is Radha Burnier's health. The situation we have is many in leadership position have provided inaccurate/misleading information regarding the mental and physical health of Radha Burnier and tried to influence the members, and have not provided the members the details of the two certificates from doctors who have declared her mentally and physically fit. This is doing injustice by those who are supposed to exemplify how theosophists value truth and justice. Like the child who talked about the king having no cloths, it does not require any high degrees or years of learning or years of daily meditation or other tantrik practices or beliefs etc or other credentials to see this and talk about. Also some of the members have been around theosophy longer than many in the leadership positions. mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jokelap@dnainternet.net Sun Apr 27 06:28:58 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: jokelap@dnainternet.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 6655 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2008 13:28:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2008 13:28:55 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.dnainternet.fi) (87.94.96.108) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2008 13:28:55 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (223-243.adsl.lpoy.dnainternet.fi [78.27.77.243]) by smtp1.dnainternet.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A1FCCA48 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 16:28:38 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <48147F88.3090209@dnainternet.net> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 16:28:40 +0300 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: <8CA75587677A478-1490-288C@webmail-db07.sysops.aol.com> <4812BBF5.6060508@dnainternet.net> <8CA75C69ECD30EE-63C-B26@webmail-me13.sysops.aol.com> <48139374.2070102@dnainternet.net> <005501c8a83a$d7102c30$15113456@khidr> In-Reply-To: <005501c8a83a$d7102c30$15113456@khidr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 87.94.96.108 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Jokela Petri Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=281705993; y=snhaJCBNtXvpmcuRHdoXYY_2FEYhixNxvFKaCmJCYzNCVcKpHT1D X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43716 Thanx for bringing this point of view. You are very right. All asians do really respect gurus or people who brings blessing among them and have therefore given up a common life and its comfort. I experienced a great hospitality when I stayed few days within one indian family. They said that word Guest and God starts with same capital, so they treat Guests like they to treat God. They offered two full meal per day. They hardly let me bought anything from store, but instead paid the bills. Sure I didnt want anything speacial, just like ice-cream, food, DVD and so on. Anyway, that´ s something. I did want it, but there was no other option. PJ Morten Nymann Olesen kirjoitti: > > To all readers > > My views are: > > PJ said: > "People make some kind of lane which through Radha walked among us. > People were praising her. Seems > personality cult to me. I wondered where my friend vanished. Later I > heard him telling me that he hates personality cult > and couldnt stand it." > > M. Sufilight says: > I would add, that in India, this "personality cult" thing towards a > leader or a Guru is quite common culturally speaking. It is a showing > of of respect to a leader instead of contempt and disrespect, - so to > find out if the Guru or leader really have something to offer or not, > instead the opposite - a prejudiced reaction. In our western world we > have a quite different view upon the "Guru-thing". And that is why a > 14 year old Guru from India from time to time are able to fill an > astrodome with interested followers. > > There are plenty of guides and initiates on the planet today. The > problem for many would-be Seekers After Truth are that they are not > easily able to discern who is a fraud wellmeaning or otherwise - and > who is not. > > - - - - - - > >From Idries Shah's book "Learning how to Learn": > "Man has few alternatives in his search for truth. He may rely upon > his unaided intellect, and gamble that he is capable of perceiving > truth or even the way to truth. This is a poor, but an attractive, > gamble. Or he can gamble upon the claims of an individual or > institution which claims to have such a way. This gamble, too, is a > poor one. Aside from a very few, wo/men in general lack a sufficiently > developed perception to tell them:" > > Not to trust their own unaided mentation; Who or what to trust. "There > are, in consequence, two main schools of thought in this matter. Some > say 'Follow your own promptings'; the other says: 'Trust this or that > intuition'. Each is really useless to the ordinary wo/man. Each will > help him use up his time." > > "The bitter truth is that before man can know his own inadequacy, or > the competence of another man or institution, he must first learn > something which will enable him to perceive both. Note well that his > perception itself is a product of right study; not of instinct or > emotional attraction to the individual, nor yet of desiring to 'go it > alone'. This is 'Learning How To Learn.' " > > "All this means, of course, that we are postulating here the need for > preparatory study before school work takes place. We deny that a man > can study and properly benefit from school work until he is equipped > for it: any more than a person can study space-navigation unless he > has a grasp of mathematics." > > "This is not to say that a man (or a woman) cannot have a sensation of > truth. But the unorganized and fragmented mind which is most people's > heritage tends to distort the quality and quantity of this sensation, > leading to almost completely false conclusions about what can or > should be done." > > "This is not to say, either, that man cannot take part in studies and > activities which impinge upon that portion of him which is connected > with a higher life and cognition. But the mere application of special > techniques [often to everyone, regardless of their current state and > requirements] will not transform that man's consciousness. It will > only feed into, and disturb, more or less permanently, centers of > thought and feeling where it does not belong. Thus it is that > something which should be a blessing becomes a curse. Sugar, shall we > say, for a normal person is nutritionally useful. To a diabetic, it > can be poison." > > "Therefore, before the techniques of study and development are made > available to the student, he must be enabled to profit by them in the > direction in which they are supposed to lead, not in short-term > indulgence." > > "Thus our curriculum takes two parts: the first is in the providing of > materials of a preparatory nature, in order to equip the individual to > become a student. The second is the development itself." > > "If we, or anybody else, supply such study or preparatory material > prematurely, it will only operate on a lower level than it could. The > result will be harmless at best. At worst, it will condition, train, > the mind of the individual to think and behave in patterns which are > nothing less than automatic. In this latter way one can make what seem > to be converts, unwittingly play upon emotions, on lesser desires and > the conditioning propensity; train people to loyalty to individuals, > found and maintain institutions which seem more or less serious or > constructive. But no real progress towards knowledge of the human > being and the other dimension in which he partly lives will in fact be > made..." > > Is this what the different theosophical branches are doing today ? > If not, then why not ? > > It could be to your advantage to read the text more than one time. > > Well, that were a few of my views on the issue. > > - - - - - - - - > > M. Sufilight > > H. P. Blavatsky said: > "The Society founded to remedy the glaring evils of Christianity, to shun > bigotry and intolerance, cant and superstition and to cultivate real > universal love extending even to the dumb brute". > (The Collected Writings of H. P. Blavatsky, vol. 7, p.246) > > Master KH wrote in a Mahatma Letter: > For the opposition represents enormous vested interests, and they have > enthusiastic help from the Dugpas -- in Bhootan and the Vatican! > (Here is all of Mahtama Letter, No. 55. Dugpas are the same as selfish > Magicians.) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jokela Petri > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 10:41 PM > Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health > > Thanx for making it clearer. > > I have heard that some people have started to cry when they have asked > something about her after lecture - all that because of her attitude. In > Finland after > her talk someone asked totally something out of the subject of the > lecture, > she seemed to be pretty blunt on the video and ignored the question. > Yes, also some people complaine that at Adyar there is not friendly > athomsphere because of her. > That´s why so many wants to have someone new who brings something new > into the Society. > Someone told me that even indians want to have someone else, but I do > not know how many > of them has really said so. > > In 2006 I saw something amazing. I was standing there with an friend. > Radha was walking from > Headquarters to the gathering we had before convention where they offer > something sweet and so on. > People make some kind of lane which through Radha walked among us. > People were praising her. Seems > personality cult to me. I wondered where my friend vanished. Later I > heard him telling me that he hates personality cult > and couldnt stand it. I was also pretty amazed because of it though > tried to fit in following what people were doing, but thinking > in my mind what a heck is this about. > > Well, this is bad gossipping and she maye hear this as she always does > and maybe she will give me a slapp on my face. :-) > > Anyway, I have also been complained about being too straight in office. > People feel very hurt because of it sometimes. > > PJ > > Drpsionic@aol.com kirjoitti: > > > > You did not hear her speak at Olcott right after she was elected. It > > was so bad that when an outsider asked who she was, he was told that > > it was just some woman from India staying there because no one wanted > > to admit that she was the society President. > > > > I had one of my best lines at her expense years ago at the US > > convention. They showed that dreadful movie that she was in and at > > one point in the dialogue, when her character is asked if she would > > marry an American, her character responded, "I don't understand > > them." At that point, possessed by mirth demons, I blurted out, "She > > still doesn't!" And everyone in the room roared with laughter. > > > > Chuck the Heretic > > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jokela Petri > > > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 12:21 am > > Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health > > > > That´s a pretty rude comment about her. I have heard her speaking so > > many times. > > She is one of the best international lecturers of TS. She has done her > > studies on theosophy very well. > > One can find that out in her talks. She has lived teachings in practice > > in the best way she has been able. > > She has always been very hard worker. Her memory what comes to names of > > members has been always amazing. > > I belive she has hold the candel for Theosophy and the Society. > > Sure I have heard her being tough and demanding boss for those who work > > at Adyar. > > But loving kindness attitude has increased on her within last few years. > > Toward me she has been very loving as well during bad as well during and > > good times. > > > > PJ > > > > Drpsionic@aol.com > kirjoitti: > > > > > > > > > In the 30 years she has been president there have always been > > > questions about her mental health, usually from those who heard her > > > speak. :) > > > > > > Chuck the Heretic > > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: MKR > > > > > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > > > > ; > > > theos-L@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Sent: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:22 am > > > Subject: Theos-World TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health > > > > > > In the election of International President, the issue of Radha > Burnier's > > > health has become central. We have seen how her health was reported > > to be > > > good early last year and then in the end of last year doubts were > > cast by > > > some National Secretaries about her physical and mental health and her > > > fitness to carryon the duties of the President. > > > > > > To allay these doubts, early this month, two physicians declared Radha > > > Burnier fully fit, both mentally and physically. I discussed these > > on this > > > maillist. However, some readers wanted to see scanned copies of > > > originals to > > > convince themselves about the veracity of the certifications. > > > > > > Here is a very easy way to confirm the above facts. Anyone > > interested can > > > send e-mail to candidates, International Officers, and National > > > Secretaries(Presidents). The email addresses are available in the > Adyar > > > Website. Any responses received can be posted here for the benefit of > > > all of > > > us. Multiple source verification is the norm in the journalistic > field. > > > MKR > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > From mkr777@gmail.com Sun Apr 27 06:32:31 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 46279 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2008 13:32:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2008 13:32:30 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.243) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2008 13:32:30 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c28so1246250ana.57 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 06:32:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.202.9 with SMTP id z9mr10314205anf.122.1209303150110; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 06:32:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 06:32:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 08:32:30 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.243 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Aryel Sanat - Update X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=zxdjftSYsKzoyeWKvhZ4NxIGdueVutUGoca8C5ekVY5nVpQoUpQ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43717 Many have known or heard about Aryel Sant, who has written a book on Jiddu Krishnamurti and extensively lectured on the issue of transformation, was not seen anywhere for several years. I happened to learn last night that he had a stroke and affected him badly. Fortunately, he is recovering. I sent him a msg last night and got a reply today. He is writing a message on stroke etc and expected to send it soon. When I receive it, I hope to post it here. mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Sun Apr 27 06:39:20 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 78049 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2008 13:39:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2008 13:39:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.249) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2008 13:39:17 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id d11so968351and.118 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 06:39:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.165.13 with SMTP id n13mr10276491ane.76.1209303557164; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 06:39:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 06:39:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 08:39:17 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <48147F88.3090209@dnainternet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8CA75587677A478-1490-288C@webmail-db07.sysops.aol.com> <4812BBF5.6060508@dnainternet.net> <8CA75C69ECD30EE-63C-B26@webmail-me13.sysops.aol.com> <48139374.2070102@dnainternet.net> <005501c8a83a$d7102c30$15113456@khidr> <48147F88.3090209@dnainternet.net> X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.249 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=h1Xyx04XlK-seT5lu5dEdzTwUfkMRI3Bpi4wd1BrciheAwlqZoA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43718 Years ago, when I visited a distant city in India where there were couple o= f members of TS I contacted them before the visit and when I was there, I was invited for a dinner. I was surprised that all the members in town were there to meet the unknown young theosophist and it was a great honor for me= . In one part of Southern India, they also have a special tradition. When important guests and close family members are served food, it will be serve= d by the homemaker by hand. Serving by hand is to show the affection and closeness. One has to live with ordinary folks in India to get a feel for how they dea= l with guests. mkr On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 8:28 AM, Jokela Petri wrote: > > Thanx for bringing this point of view. You are very right. > All asians do really respect gurus or people who brings blessing > among them and have therefore given up a common life and its comfort. > I experienced a great hospitality when I stayed few days within one > indian family. > They said that word Guest and God starts with same capital, so they > treat Guests > like they to treat God. They offered two full meal per day. They hardly > let me bought > anything from store, but instead paid the bills. Sure I didnt want > anything speacial, > just like ice-cream, food, DVD and so on. Anyway, that=B4 s something. I > did want it, > but there was no other option. > > PJ > > Morten Nymann Olesen kirjoitti: > > > > > To all readers > > > > My views are: > > > > PJ said: > > "People make some kind of lane which through Radha walked among us. > > People were praising her. Seems > > personality cult to me. I wondered where my friend vanished. Later I > > heard him telling me that he hates personality cult > > and couldnt stand it." > > > > M. Sufilight says: > > I would add, that in India, this "personality cult" thing towards a > > leader or a Guru is quite common culturally speaking. It is a showing > > of of respect to a leader instead of contempt and disrespect, - so to > > find out if the Guru or leader really have something to offer or not, > > instead the opposite - a prejudiced reaction. In our western world we > > have a quite different view upon the "Guru-thing". And that is why a > > 14 year old Guru from India from time to time are able to fill an > > astrodome with interested followers. > > > > There are plenty of guides and initiates on the planet today. The > > problem for many would-be Seekers After Truth are that they are not > > easily able to discern who is a fraud wellmeaning or otherwise - and > > who is not. > > > > - - - - - - > > >From Idries Shah's book "Learning how to Learn": > > "Man has few alternatives in his search for truth. He may rely upon > > his unaided intellect, and gamble that he is capable of perceiving > > truth or even the way to truth. This is a poor, but an attractive, > > gamble. Or he can gamble upon the claims of an individual or > > institution which claims to have such a way. This gamble, too, is a > > poor one. Aside from a very few, wo/men in general lack a sufficiently > > developed perception to tell them:" > > > > Not to trust their own unaided mentation; Who or what to trust. "There > > are, in consequence, two main schools of thought in this matter. Some > > say 'Follow your own promptings'; the other says: 'Trust this or that > > intuition'. Each is really useless to the ordinary wo/man. Each will > > help him use up his time." > > > > "The bitter truth is that before man can know his own inadequacy, or > > the competence of another man or institution, he must first learn > > something which will enable him to perceive both. Note well that his > > perception itself is a product of right study; not of instinct or > > emotional attraction to the individual, nor yet of desiring to 'go it > > alone'. This is 'Learning How To Learn.' " > > > > "All this means, of course, that we are postulating here the need for > > preparatory study before school work takes place. We deny that a man > > can study and properly benefit from school work until he is equipped > > for it: any more than a person can study space-navigation unless he > > has a grasp of mathematics." > > > > "This is not to say that a man (or a woman) cannot have a sensation of > > truth. But the unorganized and fragmented mind which is most people's > > heritage tends to distort the quality and quantity of this sensation, > > leading to almost completely false conclusions about what can or > > should be done." > > > > "This is not to say, either, that man cannot take part in studies and > > activities which impinge upon that portion of him which is connected > > with a higher life and cognition. But the mere application of special > > techniques [often to everyone, regardless of their current state and > > requirements] will not transform that man's consciousness. It will > > only feed into, and disturb, more or less permanently, centers of > > thought and feeling where it does not belong. Thus it is that > > something which should be a blessing becomes a curse. Sugar, shall we > > say, for a normal person is nutritionally useful. To a diabetic, it > > can be poison." > > > > "Therefore, before the techniques of study and development are made > > available to the student, he must be enabled to profit by them in the > > direction in which they are supposed to lead, not in short-term > > indulgence." > > > > "Thus our curriculum takes two parts: the first is in the providing of > > materials of a preparatory nature, in order to equip the individual to > > become a student. The second is the development itself." > > > > "If we, or anybody else, supply such study or preparatory material > > prematurely, it will only operate on a lower level than it could. The > > result will be harmless at best. At worst, it will condition, train, > > the mind of the individual to think and behave in patterns which are > > nothing less than automatic. In this latter way one can make what seem > > to be converts, unwittingly play upon emotions, on lesser desires and > > the conditioning propensity; train people to loyalty to individuals, > > found and maintain institutions which seem more or less serious or > > constructive. But no real progress towards knowledge of the human > > being and the other dimension in which he partly lives will in fact be > > made..." > > > > Is this what the different theosophical branches are doing today ? > > If not, then why not ? > > > > It could be to your advantage to read the text more than one time. > > > > Well, that were a few of my views on the issue. > > > > - - - - - - - - > > > > M. Sufilight > > > > H. P. Blavatsky said: > > "The Society founded to remedy the glaring evils of Christianity, to > shun > > bigotry and intolerance, cant and superstition and to cultivate real > > universal love extending even to the dumb brute". > > (The Collected Writings of H. P. Blavatsky, vol. 7, p.246) > > > > Master KH wrote in a Mahatma Letter: > > For the opposition represents enormous vested interests, and they have > > enthusiastic help from the Dugpas -- in Bhootan and the Vatican! > > (Here is all of Mahtama Letter, No. 55. Dugpas are the same as selfish > > Magicians.) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Jokela Petri > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 10:41 PM > > Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health > > > > Thanx for making it clearer. > > > > I have heard that some people have started to cry when they have asked > > something about her after lecture - all that because of her attitude. I= n > > Finland after > > her talk someone asked totally something out of the subject of the > > lecture, > > she seemed to be pretty blunt on the video and ignored the question. > > Yes, also some people complaine that at Adyar there is not friendly > > athomsphere because of her. > > That=B4s why so many wants to have someone new who brings something new > > into the Society. > > Someone told me that even indians want to have someone else, but I do > > not know how many > > of them has really said so. > > > > In 2006 I saw something amazing. I was standing there with an friend. > > Radha was walking from > > Headquarters to the gathering we had before convention where they offer > > something sweet and so on. > > People make some kind of lane which through Radha walked among us. > > People were praising her. Seems > > personality cult to me. I wondered where my friend vanished. Later I > > heard him telling me that he hates personality cult > > and couldnt stand it. I was also pretty amazed because of it though > > tried to fit in following what people were doing, but thinking > > in my mind what a heck is this about. > > > > Well, this is bad gossipping and she maye hear this as she always does > > and maybe she will give me a slapp on my face. :-) > > > > Anyway, I have also been complained about being too straight in office. > > People feel very hurt because of it sometimes. > > > > PJ > > > > Drpsionic@aol.com > > kirjoitti: > > > > > > You did not hear her speak at Olcott right after she was elected. It > > > was so bad that when an outsider asked who she was, he was told that > > > it was just some woman from India staying there because no one wanted > > > to admit that she was the society President. > > > > > > I had one of my best lines at her expense years ago at the US > > > convention. They showed that dreadful movie that she was in and at > > > one point in the dialogue, when her character is asked if she would > > > marry an American, her character responded, "I don't understand > > > them." At that point, possessed by mirth demons, I blurted out, "She > > > still doesn't!" And everyone in the room roared with laughter. > > > > > > Chuck the Heretic > > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Jokela Petri > > > > > > >> > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > Sent: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 12:21 am > > > Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health > > > > > > That=B4s a pretty rude comment about her. I have heard her speaking s= o > > > many times. > > > She is one of the best international lecturers of TS. She has done he= r > > > studies on theosophy very well. > > > One can find that out in her talks. She has lived teachings in > practice > > > in the best way she has been able. > > > She has always been very hard worker. Her memory what comes to names > of > > > members has been always amazing. > > > I belive she has hold the candel for Theosophy and the Society. > > > Sure I have heard her being tough and demanding boss for those who > work > > > at Adyar. > > > But loving kindness attitude has increased on her within last few > years. > > > Toward me she has been very loving as well during bad as well during > and > > > good times. > > > > > > PJ > > > > > > Drpsionic@aol.com > > > > > kirjoitti: > > > > > > > > > > > > In the 30 years she has been president there have always been > > > > questions about her mental health, usually from those who heard her > > > > speak. :) > > > > > > > > Chuck the Heretic > > > > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: MKR mkr777%40gmail.com > > > > > > > >> > > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > >; > > > > theos-L@yahoogroups.com theos-L%40yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:22 am > > > > Subject: Theos-World TS Election - Radha Burnier's Health > > > > > > > > In the election of International President, the issue of Radha > > Burnier's > > > > health has become central. We have seen how her health was reported > > > to be > > > > good early last year and then in the end of last year doubts were > > > cast by > > > > some National Secretaries about her physical and mental health and > her > > > > fitness to carryon the duties of the President. > > > > > > > > To allay these doubts, early this month, two physicians declared > Radha > > > > Burnier fully fit, both mentally and physically. I discussed these > > > on this > > > > maillist. However, some readers wanted to see scanned copies of > > > > originals to > > > > convince themselves about the veracity of the certifications. > > > > > > > > Here is a very easy way to confirm the above facts. Anyone > > > interested can > > > > send e-mail to candidates, International Officers, and National > > > > Secretaries(Presidents). The email addresses are available in the > > Adyar > > > > Website. Any responses received can be posted here for the benefit > of > > > > all of > > > > us. Multiple source verification is the norm in the journalistic > > field. > > > > MKR > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >=20=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Sun Apr 27 06:53:30 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 62272 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2008 13:53:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2008 13:53:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.245) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2008 13:53:29 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c23so1568992anc.42 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 06:53:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.194.17 with SMTP id r17mr10320374anf.127.1209304408648; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 06:53:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 06:53:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 08:53:28 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.245 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS Elections - Veracity of Information X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=3lF01QaDpeH7Rg2-d-u0xS6ciNgYmQ7EhDumlzE_vSjdQu4gRCo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43719 Some members here wanted to verify the accuracy of the info posted her. I suggested them to call their National Secretary so that they can get third party verification. Has anyone contacted the National Secretaries and has anyone found any inaccurate or new info? mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Sun Apr 27 07:41:27 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 82650 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2008 14:41:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2008 14:41:25 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wx-out-0506.google.com) (66.249.82.224) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2008 14:41:25 -0000 X-Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id h28so5941253wxd.0 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 07:41:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.43.13 with SMTP id q13mr10433645anq.74.1209307284384; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 07:41:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 07:41:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 09:41:24 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 66.249.82.224 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS Elections - Radha Burnier's Health - Third Doctor's Opinion X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=awLhQlzZrT93_CPF-K1S57uwybgdXoTDW5EF0freqL6_Iaer3Pk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43720 In a message, Pedro wrote: "Dr Duzan Zagar, Organising Secretary for the TS in Slovenia and who is a medical doctor, neurologist and psychiatrist, visited the President during his stay at Adyar in December 2007, saw her recent test results and declared that she was in good health. She had had a stroke in November 2006. Therefore in the light of expert medical advice Ms Carbonell's comments on the President's health at that time were uncalled for, inappropriate and manipulative, for they represented a blatant attempt to unduly influence the opinion and decision-making process of the General Council members." I overlooked this msg which was posted prior to the two doctors in India issued certificates declaring Radha Burnier fit both mentally and physically. The above statement raises several questions: 1. Did Algeo or any of the other Secretaries and GC members talk to Dr. Zagar at the convention? 2. If they did, what did they find out? They should share it with the members, which is very easy with Internet. 3. If they did not, why not? Don't they know a professional opinion is lot more important than laymen/women's opinion? Don't they trust another theosophist who heads a Section? If they do not, they should explain why. 4. With such free advise available, why did they go ahead put their own laymen/women's opinion as facts and provide incorrect information which may mislead members to vote for their candidate. 5. When they found out that doctors who have examined Radha Burnier and declared her fit, why have they not informed the members by providing reliable professional opinion? We make mistakes. It is the mark of brave men and women to stand up and accept mistakes and move on. Silence only will eat into the credibility of those who are supposed to lead theosophy in 21st century and in future we may have to take everything they say with a great grain of salt which is not good for an organization such as TS. mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jokelap@dnainternet.net Sun Apr 27 07:43:01 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: jokelap@dnainternet.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 75242 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2008 14:43:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2008 14:43:00 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.dnainternet.fi) (87.94.96.112) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2008 14:43:00 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (223-243.adsl.lpoy.dnainternet.fi [78.27.77.243]) by smtp2.dnainternet.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01013CB03 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 17:42:58 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <481490F4.6020703@dnainternet.net> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 17:43:00 +0300 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: <4812E9CD.3000608@dnainternet.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 87.94.96.112 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Jokela Petri Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Some news and personal oppnions about the Presidential election of TS 2008 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=281705993; y=3YTK_KQ_z7126btVHRTYaaPoUhqwZYjXTuAqcUdRXxFgMoIUVHwi X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43721 Well, I belive that real meetings face to face are more important. It is easy to hide behind the internet world. But sure many other guru also does have chatting hours or lectures in the net and that can rose up some intrest to come over into real alive and vivid meetings. As a way of communication internet is very good and fast. I pretty much agree with MKR. So the whole Society is functioning againts its rules. But president is always also a chairman of the GC, so thats why president lead the Society. And Anton, if president have seven year sick leave on her/his duty, what we do with such an president as an administrator? PJ MKR kirjoitti: > > While agree with your interpretation of the rules, in practice, it is the > President who really head the TS. That is what you will also see in the > sections. The members go along and usually due to various complicated > reasons rarely differ with the head. So we have to wait and see what is in > store for the TS. > > One area where I have been repeatedly shouting is that the TS is not using > Internet effectively. A passive website is ok. It is one way communication > with the world which includes members. Two-way communication is lacking. > With all the talk about Internet, technology, foresight, vision and > all, for > the last several years, even in the American Section, the progress is very > very minimal. One wonders why? Perhaps it is the fear of inability to > control flow and velocity of flow of info both ways. One cannot take > advantage of time lag that paper mail allows. > > mkr > > On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 1:22 AM, Anton Rozman > > wrote: > > > In the Rules and Regulations of the TS we can read: "The General > > Council shall be the Governing Body of The Theosophical Society." So, > > it is the General Council which shall determine the policy of the > > Society and not the President. The President is the "First > > Administrator," the manager, who executes the policy determined by the > > GC. And, as the GC shall be a body of representatives of all the > > members of the Society, there are all the members of the Society who > > shall determine the policy of the Society and, on the other hand, the > > reason why the President is directly elected by all the members of the > > Society. This is the idea, the democratic ideal in the Rules and > > Regulations of the TS. And in this respect the issue of the health of > > the President should be at all out of the question. > > > > Anton > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > From mkr777@gmail.com Sun Apr 27 07:51:44 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 42430 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2008 14:51:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2008 14:51:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.243) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2008 14:51:43 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id d11so1108128and.28 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 07:51:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.140.15 with SMTP id n15mr10437318and.94.1209307902291; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 07:51:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 07:51:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 09:51:42 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <481490F4.6020703@dnainternet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4812E9CD.3000608@dnainternet.net> <481490F4.6020703@dnainternet.net> X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.243 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Some news and personal oppnions about the Presidential election of TS 2008 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=jEXFam6B9G5K-IUdw7e-4YIfMC2Oy4VRBesVZJYAhKpfC9AmI7U Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43722 Well said. Like any tool, Internet has its place. One has to find a balance. There are many situations where person to person is the only thing that works. Even in Business situations where the issue is complex, combative, very important, unpleasant or sad, only person to person works. All one need to look at ML to APS. With all their communication and transmigration powers available, even the Adepts travelled long distances to take care of business. Travel 120 years ago was lot more difficult. On the other hand, when a Fax or e-mail will do the job, writing a letter and using paper mail is just a clever trick to gain time. That was what I had when I dealt with TSA during Algeo's days. Electronic means speed up communication, and sometimes it becomes inconvenient. mkr On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 9:43 AM, Jokela Petri wrote: > > Well, I belive that real meetings face to face are more important. > It is easy to hide behind the internet world. But sure many other guru > also does have chatting hours or lectures in the net and that can rose up > some intrest to come over into real alive and vivid meetings. > > As a way of communication internet is very good and fast. > > I pretty much agree with MKR. So the whole Society is > functioning againts its rules. But president is always also a > chairman of the GC, so thats why president lead the Society. > > And Anton, if president have seven year sick leave on her/his duty, > what we do with such an president as an administrator? > > PJ > > MKR kirjoitti: > > > > > While agree with your interpretation of the rules, in practice, it is > the > > President who really head the TS. That is what you will also see in the > > sections. The members go along and usually due to various complicated > > reasons rarely differ with the head. So we have to wait and see what is > in > > store for the TS. > > > > One area where I have been repeatedly shouting is that the TS is not > using > > Internet effectively. A passive website is ok. It is one way > communication > > with the world which includes members. Two-way communication is lacking. > > With all the talk about Internet, technology, foresight, vision and > > all, for > > the last several years, even in the American Section, the progress is > very > > very minimal. One wonders why? Perhaps it is the fear of inability to > > control flow and velocity of flow of info both ways. One cannot take > > advantage of time lag that paper mail allows. > > > > mkr > > > > On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 1:22 AM, Anton Rozman > > >> > > wrote: > > > > > In the Rules and Regulations of the TS we can read: "The General > > > Council shall be the Governing Body of The Theosophical Society." So, > > > it is the General Council which shall determine the policy of the > > > Society and not the President. The President is the "First > > > Administrator," the manager, who executes the policy determined by the > > > GC. And, as the GC shall be a body of representatives of all the > > > members of the Society, there are all the members of the Society who > > > shall determine the policy of the Society and, on the other hand, the > > > reason why the President is directly elected by all the members of the > > > Society. This is the idea, the democratic ideal in the Rules and > > > Regulations of the TS. And in this respect the issue of the health of > > > the President should be at all out of the question. > > > > > > Anton > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jokelap@dnainternet.net Sun Apr 27 08:17:44 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: jokelap@dnainternet.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 95764 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2008 15:17:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2008 15:17:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.dnainternet.fi) (87.94.96.112) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2008 15:17:43 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (223-243.adsl.lpoy.dnainternet.fi [78.27.77.243]) by smtp2.dnainternet.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFB5EC8AF for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 18:17:41 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <48149917.1060608@dnainternet.net> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 18:17:43 +0300 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 87.94.96.112 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Jokela Petri Subject: Re: Theos-World Aryel Sanat - Update X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=281705993; y=MVROvdZ7MmwaE0fCR4KoyP5_0kQHLAUfsZHYmIBI3k5GUx3HcMQT X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43723 Ariel Sanat had to cancel his summer school lectures in Finland at that time. People were so excited to hear his lectures as his book was very much read and sold. Good, if he is recovering. Happy to hear news from him. Most famous finnish compouser Jean Sibelius died for stroke at the age of 92 or was he 91 years old, I am not sure. Alan Seniour wrote long artcile about him to The Theosophist 2007, which we also translated into our Teosofi. PJ MKR kirjoitti: > > Many have known or heard about Aryel Sant, who has written a book on Jiddu > Krishnamurti and extensively lectured on the issue of transformation, was > not seen anywhere for several years. I happened to learn last night > that he > had a stroke and affected him badly. Fortunately, he is recovering. > > I sent him a msg last night and got a reply today. He is writing a message > on stroke etc and expected to send it soon. When I receive it, I hope to > post it here. > > mkr > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > From mkr777@gmail.com Sun Apr 27 08:37:15 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 49323 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2008 15:37:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2008 15:37:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.243) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2008 15:37:14 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c24so1271060ana.96 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 08:37:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.38.3 with SMTP id l3mr10478794anl.134.1209310633542; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 08:37:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 08:37:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 10:37:13 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <48149917.1060608@dnainternet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <48149917.1060608@dnainternet.net> X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.243 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Aryel Sanat - Update X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=W3IDlINRqxCLB8gCodF1R8-kpw6ik4qEnqGGzC1myg1Fn7fm_mo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43724 Years ago. Aryel was in my city and gave a series of lectures on JK and transformation. I have some video recordings on tape. Need to convert them either to DVD or on MP4 or some downloadable format which I have not done. mkr On 4/27/08, Jokela Petri wrote: > > > Ariel Sanat had to cancel his summer school lectures in Finland at that > time. People were so > excited to hear his lectures as his book was very much read and sold. > Good, if he is recovering. Happy to hear news from him. > > Most famous finnish compouser Jean Sibelius died for stroke at the age > of 92 or was he 91 years old, I am not sure. > Alan Seniour wrote long artcile about him to The Theosophist 2007, which > we also translated into our Teosofi. > > PJ > > MKR kirjoitti: > > > > Many have known or heard about Aryel Sant, who has written a book on > Jiddu > > Krishnamurti and extensively lectured on the issue of transformation, > was > > not seen anywhere for several years. I happened to learn last night > > that he > > had a stroke and affected him badly. Fortunately, he is recovering. > > > > I sent him a msg last night and got a reply today. He is writing a > message > > on stroke etc and expected to send it soon. When I receive it, I hope to > > post it here. > > > > mkr > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Sun Apr 27 08:59:02 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 83187 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2008 15:59:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2008 15:59:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m12.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.100) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2008 15:59:01 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.bd4.2db08096 (37129) for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 11:58:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from MBLK-M16 (mblk-m16.mblk.aol.com [64.12.136.49]) by cia-ma02.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMA023-91094814a29d343; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 11:58:21 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 11:58:21 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.199.151.243 In-Reply-To: <500821.5566.qm@web52608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36240-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.199.151.243 by MBLK-M16.sysops.aol.com (64.12.136.49) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sun, 27 Apr 2008 11:58:21 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA7696A68BA2A3-C08-1C99@MBLK-M16.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.143.100 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Atlantic weapons X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=2uB_t8pxrs5mKi1LhilYiuOo-Ps5BbN6fAGDN4lt-vCbIpzoHw X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43725 It's all a matter of scale. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: Martin To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 1:14 am Subject: Re: Theos-World Atlantic weapons True to a certain yes. However, this gun can vaporise anything in a 300 mile radius... --- Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > Hardly news.? There is actually a small, commercial > version available that shoots small rings or ball > bearings. > > Chuck the Heretic > > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 4:36 pm > Subject: Theos-World Atlantic weapons > > > > > > > Well its ready the Electromagnetic Railgun. Read all > about this weapon > from a long past here: > > http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2004-06/electromagnetic-railgun > > Pralaya will be here soon, although you may say its > not time yet, who > really knows the ways of the Dzyans? > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > __________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Sun Apr 27 09:06:33 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 63090 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2008 16:06:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2008 16:06:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m22.mail.aol.com) (64.12.137.3) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2008 16:06:32 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d4e.25d9a77f (34935) for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:06:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from MBLK-M16 (mblk-m16.mblk.aol.com [64.12.136.49]) by cia-da04.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA048-88774814a48535d; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:06:29 -0400 References: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:06:29 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.199.151.243 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36240-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.199.151.243 by MBLK-M16.sysops.aol.com (64.12.136.49) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:06:29 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA7697C9984D5B-C08-1CFA@MBLK-M16.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Elections -- Emperor(s) has no Cloths X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=4dLZclMZ3iXn7GvxN5me8S4KT0pghzxWnYmjzPl1U8TvLTcEVg X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43726 I cannot conceive of two people whom I would less want to see naked than John Algeo and Radha Burnier! Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: MKR To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; theos-L@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 7:33 am Subject: Theos-World TS Elections -- Emperor(s) has no Cloths In another theosophical forum, a theosophist commented: "As usual, the problem is caused by those who, in their over-zealousness get things mixed up, because now several members with no official responsibilities feel they have the right to write their opinions, forward private letters, etc. Of course they have, but that shows me that we are, generally speaking, not mature enough, and that the laws of the world still rule on us." The key issue in the election is Radha Burnier's health. The situation we have is many in leadership position have provided inaccurate/misleading information regarding the mental and physical health of Radha Burnier and tried to influence the members, and have not provided the members the details of the two certificates from doctors who have declared her mentally and physically fit. This is doing injustice by those who are supposed to exemplify how theosophists value truth and justice. Like the child who talked about the king having no cloths, it does not require any high degrees or years of learning or years of daily meditation or other tantrik practices or beliefs etc or other credentials to see this and talk about. Also some of the members have been around theosophy longer than many in the leadership positions. mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From anton_rozman@yahoo.com Sun Apr 27 09:57:12 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: anton_rozman@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 3679 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2008 16:57:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2008 16:57:10 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n34b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.148) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2008 16:57:10 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n34.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Apr 2008 16:57:10 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Apr 2008 16:57:10 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.48] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Apr 2008 16:57:10 -0000 Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 16:57:07 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <481490F4.6020703@dnainternet.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.168.148 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 209.73.164.201 From: "Anton Rozman" Subject: Re: Some news and personal oppnions about the Presidential election of TS 2008 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=192242904; y=Z1Qw8vC6os-FYOWy4Fv3KOCwBhIunHwC1SBwqGDa34ecawIqxs9c X-Yahoo-Profile: anton_rozman X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43727 >While agree with your interpretation of the rules, in practice, it=20 is the President who really head the TS.< >So the whole Society is functioning against its rules. But president=20 is always also a chairman of the GC, so that's why president lead the=20 Society.< Yes, pretty much so. But we should not lose that ideal from our view=20 and should strive to come closer to it in the future. And because of=20 the actual situation and absence of the official policy of the TS (at=20 least a transparent and public one) I welcome John Algeo's=20 presentation of his plan of activities. >And Anton, if president have seven year sick leave on her/his duty,=20 what we do with such an president as an administrator?< As said, one who is not 100% at her/his best abilities should abstain=20 to run for that office. Anton --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Jokela Petri wrote: > >=20 > Well, I belive that real meetings face to face are more important. > It is easy to hide behind the internet world. But sure many other=20 guru > also does have chatting hours or lectures in the net and that can=20 rose up > some intrest to come over into real alive and vivid meetings. >=20 > As a way of communication internet is very good and fast. >=20 > I pretty much agree with MKR. So the whole Society is > functioning againts its rules. But president is always also a > chairman of the GC, so thats why president lead the Society. >=20 > And Anton, if president have seven year sick leave on her/his duty, > what we do with such an president as an administrator? >=20 > PJ >=20 >=20 > MKR kirjoitti: > > > > While agree with your interpretation of the rules, in practice,=20 it is the > > President who really head the TS. That is what you will also see=20 in the > > sections. The members go along and usually due to various=20 complicated > > reasons rarely differ with the head. So we have to wait and see=20 what is in > > store for the TS. > > > > One area where I have been repeatedly shouting is that the TS is=20 not using > > Internet effectively. A passive website is ok. It is one way=20 communication > > with the world which includes members. Two-way communication is=20 lacking. > > With all the talk about Internet, technology, foresight, vision=20 and=20 > > all, for > > the last several years, even in the American Section, the=20 progress is very > > very minimal. One wonders why? Perhaps it is the fear of=20 inability to > > control flow and velocity of flow of info both ways. One cannot=20 take > > advantage of time lag that paper mail allows. > > > > mkr > > > > On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 1:22 AM, Anton Rozman > > > > wrote: > > > > > In the Rules and Regulations of the TS we can read: "The General > > > Council shall be the Governing Body of The Theosophical=20 Society." So, > > > it is the General Council which shall determine the policy of=20 the > > > Society and not the President. The President is the "First > > > Administrator," the manager, who executes the policy determined=20 by the > > > GC. And, as the GC shall be a body of representatives of all the > > > members of the Society, there are all the members of the=20 Society who > > > shall determine the policy of the Society and, on the other=20 hand, the > > > reason why the President is directly elected by all the members=20 of the > > > Society. This is the idea, the democratic ideal in the Rules and > > > Regulations of the TS. And in this respect the issue of the=20 health of > > > the President should be at all out of the question. > > > > > > Anton > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > From raquel_rpj@yahoo.es Sun Apr 27 12:13:29 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: raquel_rpj@yahoo.es X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 66898 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2008 19:13:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2008 19:13:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web26510.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.47) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2008 19:13:25 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 85901 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Apr 2008 19:13:24 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: ZjhrjQUVM1mecqqku8z.Ycl6fyhGvg1h.4MrEIvslizPtsSGcIKPDtemzp3fyLaJUBWtv9mCk8pjJX2T4WonV94qx9xRMw4EmCQsN6HWTWbd5_XIUj4lVYV33kI- X-Received: from [77.208.35.145] by web26510.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 21:13:24 CEST Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 21:13:24 +0200 (CEST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <528648.10860.qm@web52604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <624294.85857.qm@web26510.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 217.146.176.47 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Raquel=20Rodr=EDguez?= Subject: Re: Theos-World DNA Activation & Repair via New Sound Frequencies X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=319886574; y=l40voIh37AyKiFK_mD5W741Lhm7FhezZnPO8DhwGkk7Gb1Pkig X-Yahoo-Profile: raquel_rpj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43728 Hello Donald, Wellcome. This looks very interesting to me. Do you think artrosis could be cured? =20=20=20 Best Regards =20=20=20 Raquel Martin escribi=F3: Hi Donald, welcome. Have you read about R.Rife? http://www.rife.org/ --- Donald Addams wrote: >=20 >=20 > Hi Folks! >=20 > New member here, wanted to say hi, introduce > myself and also share a bit on what I have been > working on. >=20 > My name is Donald Adams, I'm a scientific > researcher. Been working on a project for the last 7 > years, a significant spin off of which has resulted > in the novel discovery of new curious sound > frequencies which appear to be able to possibly > affect DNA. Specifically, I strongly suspect both > activation and repair may be possible. >=20 > I have a test group of approximately 600 > volunteers. Many of which have been reporting all > kinds of positive and dramatic phenomena related to > regeneration, healing, well being..... and I do mean > dramatic. >=20 > I'd be happy to provide more information on this > and even give anyone samples of these audio > frequencies to experiment with if their interested? >=20 > I could post a link to the group, but not sure of > what the protocol for that sort of thing is here as > Im still new.=20 >=20 > if you would like top get access to these > frequencies. They are in the form of MP3 files and > can be easily played on your computer and you can > burn them to CD and play them on your car stereo or > whatever. I would appreciate any feedback and > observations that you have if you use them as that > is helpful to me in my research. >=20 > I've gotten a lot of response to date and its very > encouraging but a bit overwhelming at times to stay > on top of. >=20 > I want to point out to, right off the bat, that > I'm not a medical professional and am not qualified > to treat or diagnose anything medically. >=20 > If you want to join our volunteer group and start > experimenting with these frequencies, I would ask > that you read and agree to my disclaimer that > basically says you know I have=20 > said in advance "I'm not a doctor", that sort of > thing. >=20 > You can experimentation by simply emailing me at; >=20 > dna_frequencies AT aweber.com >=20 > (replace AT with the @ symbol to email me ) >=20 > I can send you back a link on your request to fill > in the disclaimer form and then the download link > you need to get started if you would like. >=20 > Looking forward to out mutual future discussions! >=20 > Very Best Regards > D >=20 >=20 > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with > Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] >=20 >=20 __________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and=20 know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt= =3DAhu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ = =20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 --------------------------------- Enviado desde Correo Yahoo! La bandeja de entrada m=E1s inteligente. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From AnandGholap@gmail.com Sun Apr 27 12:39:07 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: AnandGholap@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 72506 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2008 19:39:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2008 19:39:04 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n45d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.159) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2008 19:39:04 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n45.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Apr 2008 19:39:04 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Apr 2008 19:39:04 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Apr 2008 19:39:04 -0000 Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 19:39:04 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.169.159 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 209.73.164.201 From: "Anand" Subject: Failure of Krishnamurti on the path of occultism X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=237603923; y=3s5cylCzhgYyHSJQQc5TJC_xKqr-YtOteW6suWnDvxavwL5v-tKGuQs X-Yahoo-Profile: supreme_1l X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43729 J. Krishnamurti rejected Masters. He rejected following Masters. He rejected existence of path of occultism. Krishnamurti told people not to read books on spirituality and Theosophy. Krishnamurti told people to reject all teaching given by all great teachers including Jesus. Krishnamurti rejected idea of evolution. Krishnamurti talks of instant self realization. But in last seventy years nobody realized self by following his teaching. All this prove that Krishnamurti was a failure on the path of occultism. I am thinking of writing an article on how Krishnamurti failed on the path of occultism. It will give nightmares to fanatic followers of Krishnamurti. After reading my article on Krishnamurti, his followers will grind their teeth in darkness. They will cry. But that is what they deserve. God gives this punishment because Krishnamurti removed faith of people in God and scriptures. Regards. Anand Gholap From jokelap@dnainternet.net Sun Apr 27 13:42:58 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: jokelap@dnainternet.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 51296 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2008 20:42:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2008 20:42:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO smtp2.dnainternet.fi) (87.94.96.112) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2008 20:42:56 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (223-243.adsl.lpoy.dnainternet.fi [78.27.77.243]) by smtp2.dnainternet.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26FEEC896 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 23:42:55 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <4814E550.5070704@dnainternet.net> Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 23:42:56 +0300 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 87.94.96.112 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Jokela Petri Subject: Re: Theos-World Failure of Krishnamurti on the path of occultism X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=281705993; y=dv51tIJwOqwglj4HkaioCO0oHmhAbvNrymDgckafIHJrNlV6mZ0w X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43730 Laughing out loud:-) I have never ever heard anyone who has so badly misundertood JK. PJ Anand kirjoitti: > > J. Krishnamurti rejected Masters. He rejected following Masters. He > rejected existence of path of occultism. Krishnamurti told people not > to read books on spirituality and Theosophy. Krishnamurti told people > to reject all teaching given by all great teachers including Jesus. > Krishnamurti rejected idea of evolution. Krishnamurti talks of instant > self realization. But in last seventy years nobody realized self by > following his teaching. All this prove that Krishnamurti was a failure > on the path of occultism. I am thinking of writing an article on how > Krishnamurti failed on the path of occultism. > It will give nightmares to fanatic followers of Krishnamurti. After > reading my article on Krishnamurti, his followers will grind their > teeth in darkness. They will cry. But that is what they deserve. God > gives this punishment because Krishnamurti removed faith of people in > God and scriptures. > Regards. > Anand Gholap > > From AnandGholap@gmail.com Sun Apr 27 13:50:50 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: AnandGholap@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 55954 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2008 20:50:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2008 20:50:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n12a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.109) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2008 20:50:50 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n12.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Apr 2008 20:50:50 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Apr 2008 20:50:50 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Apr 2008 20:50:50 -0000 Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 20:50:49 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4814E550.5070704@dnainternet.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.109 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 209.73.164.226 From: "Anand" Subject: Re: Theos-World Failure of Krishnamurti on the path of occultism X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=237603923; y=270rmIl8SLEBvxPRUGKQpTw0rMA2cDXvfHf4zJvO2HJ7eFm0l9RjZhQ X-Yahoo-Profile: supreme_1l X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43731 Krishnamurti's teaching is clearly opposite of what Theosophy teaches. You can either accept Theosophy and reject Krishnamurti, or you can reject Theosophy and accept Krishnamurti.=20 Krishnamurti's speeches are logically false. His statements can be easily proved wrong. And I have written about it few months back in many forums. People attach lofty meaning to Krishnamurti's nonsense like truth is pathless land and such absurd statements.=20 Anand Gholap --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Jokela Petri wrote: > > Laughing out loud:-) > I have never ever heard anyone who has so badly misundertood JK. >=20 > PJ >=20 >=20 > Anand kirjoitti: > > > > J. Krishnamurti rejected Masters. He rejected following Masters. He > > rejected existence of path of occultism. Krishnamurti told people not > > to read books on spirituality and Theosophy. Krishnamurti told people > > to reject all teaching given by all great teachers including Jesus. > > Krishnamurti rejected idea of evolution. Krishnamurti talks of instant > > self realization. But in last seventy years nobody realized self by > > following his teaching. All this prove that Krishnamurti was a failure > > on the path of occultism. I am thinking of writing an article on how > > Krishnamurti failed on the path of occultism. > > It will give nightmares to fanatic followers of Krishnamurti. After > > reading my article on Krishnamurti, his followers will grind their > > teeth in darkness. They will cry. But that is what they deserve. God > > gives this punishment because Krishnamurti removed faith of people in > > God and scriptures. > > Regards. > > Anand Gholap > > > > > From jokelap@dnainternet.net Sun Apr 27 14:52:38 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: jokelap@dnainternet.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 42587 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2008 21:52:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2008 21:52:38 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.dnainternet.fi) (87.94.96.108) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2008 21:52:37 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (223-243.adsl.lpoy.dnainternet.fi [78.27.77.243]) by smtp1.dnainternet.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BEBFC8AE for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 00:52:35 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <4814F5A2.40100@dnainternet.net> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 00:52:34 +0300 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 87.94.96.108 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Jokela Petri Subject: Re: Theos-World Failure of Krishnamurti on the path of occultism X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=281705993; y=p1CFhxh5-NlfnrLAQbCjDIxnM7I_XGdRNYY3lnc4y8Wsf5Uvv6Un X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43732 Truths are not always so logical. Read Radha Burnier´s interview on The Theosophist done by young brasilian members. JK has said that he once met Master Morya and walked trough him....? Reason why JK put his ideas as vague as possible (according himself) was that he didn´t want anyone to follow him and make his talks as some dogmas which everyone should follow and copy. YOU can also find Radha Burnier´s article in the net with title Krishnamurti as I knew him. So, if your opinion is correct we have been led by the nonsense antitheosophist for about 28 years and who knows if even next 7 years ahead. Bringing JK back to TS was one of the greatest thing Radha and her father did. Everyone´s statements are quite easy to disagree and prove wrong with another theory. HPB said that people who walk on the different path may find each other as enemy. But only enemy is within us, says Bhagavadgita Also read what young Dalai Lama said and felt in the precence of JK from some of the Mary Luttyen´s book. Ananda wrote: "God gives this punishment because Krishnamurti removed faith of people in God and scriptures." That is exactually what Lord Buddha did too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think Jesus did the same. Instead JK asked, why to belive at all. JK said why to read books as there is a unread book of us within. But maybe this is just one attemp to change the topic here. THAT IS GREAT IDEA THEN! With best wishes, PJ Anand kirjoitti: > > Krishnamurti's teaching is clearly opposite of what Theosophy teaches. > You can either accept Theosophy and reject Krishnamurti, or you can > reject Theosophy and accept Krishnamurti. > Krishnamurti's speeches are logically false. His statements can be > easily proved wrong. And I have written about it few months back in > many forums. > People attach lofty meaning to Krishnamurti's nonsense like truth is > pathless land and such absurd statements. > Anand Gholap > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > , Jokela Petri wrote: > > > > Laughing out loud:-) > > I have never ever heard anyone who has so badly misundertood JK. > > > > PJ > > > > > > Anand kirjoitti: > > > > > > J. Krishnamurti rejected Masters. He rejected following Masters. He > > > rejected existence of path of occultism. Krishnamurti told people not > > > to read books on spirituality and Theosophy. Krishnamurti told people > > > to reject all teaching given by all great teachers including Jesus. > > > Krishnamurti rejected idea of evolution. Krishnamurti talks of instant > > > self realization. But in last seventy years nobody realized self by > > > following his teaching. All this prove that Krishnamurti was a failure > > > on the path of occultism. I am thinking of writing an article on how > > > Krishnamurti failed on the path of occultism. > > > It will give nightmares to fanatic followers of Krishnamurti. After > > > reading my article on Krishnamurti, his followers will grind their > > > teeth in darkness. They will cry. But that is what they deserve. God > > > gives this punishment because Krishnamurti removed faith of people in > > > God and scriptures. > > > Regards. > > > Anand Gholap > > > > > > > > > > From mkr777@gmail.com Sun Apr 27 15:46:22 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 58283 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2008 22:46:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Apr 2008 22:46:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.241) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2008 22:46:20 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c2so1181828anc.63 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 15:46:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.101.1.12 with SMTP id d12mr10945083ani.31.1209336379726; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 15:46:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 15:46:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 17:46:19 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.241 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS Elections - Radha Burnier's Health - Another personal observation X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=hnAhQSEm9CVmz_zsp4RrdNBMoC0FaCJHMW0aseICjfz0skWQgng Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43733 Here is a message of testimony. When you know false is false, that is when you find Truth. Many well known theosophical leaders have been misleading their members and others with inaccurate & false information regarding the health of Radha Burnier, with the hope of getting their candidate elected, and refuse to give credit to credible professional information. One wonders if in 21st century, is the motto of TS -- "No Religion is Higher Than Than Truth" -- is just a bunch of words that have no meaning in real day to day application. mkr ======================================= From: Gautama G To: G Gautama Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 12:57:41 AM Subject: The mails going around.. Presidential elections Dear Friends, I have been surprised at the mails that have been doing the rounds in the 'internet connected world'. it has been often on my mind to respond, because some of the mails were quite factually off.. However, thinking that merely adding another voice would not be of much use or even appropriate in the year of the Presidential election I have held back. But when the number of mails exceeded a threshold, I felt it is required to say something, one can be bystander, a silent watcher on, only that long! It was through a strange coincidence that Radhaji asked me to accompany her through her European tour in July 2007. She had fixed this up as early as September 2006, many months before her illness. I had the opportunity of being close to her for the whole month, except when she was in Holland, and travelling to Slovenia, Hungary, Finland and England. She gave talks, met people and I had many interesting conversations with her. She was completely aware of what she could do and what she could not. Her walk was firm and she could manage the travel quite well. On returning, one saw her slowly increase the pace of her work and the time spent in the office. And as I write this mail I see her in good condition. So it was surprising to hear canards being spread about her health and capacity. Yes, she is in her eighties and so it is not surprising to me that she has slowed a bit, and is thinking about the future of the TS and Adyar, in the manner of one who has some time, but not limitless time. As one who has worked with Radhaji, as a fellow Trustee of the Krishnamurti Foundation India, and one who has worked closely with her in the Olcott Education Society (I serve in the role of Secretary, Olcott Memorial School), one has always seen her speak her truth, however unpopular, however difficult. To construe that she is being political is to do her great injustice, and to miss the point completely. I am reminded of the famous words of the Sage Haridrumna Gautama to his 7 year old pupil, Jabala, "You are a Bramhin if you have the courage to speak a dangerous truth." I Think Radhaji has always done this... speaking the difficult truth.. With regards G. Gautama p.s. My fuller credentials.. I work in the Krishnamurti school in Damodar Gardens, since 1990 as it Principal. Prior to that I worked in the Olcott school In Besant Gardens as Director Crafts and Human Resources from 1987. My mother still works in the Adyar library - Parvati Gopalaratnam is 84 and my father, Late (Col) R.Gopalaratnam served the TS from 1970 to 2004 in several roles - as General manager, Convention officer, Manager TPH etc. My mother is Radha's cousin. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Sun Apr 27 18:02:12 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 28785 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2008 01:02:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2008 01:02:09 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52103.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.106) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2008 01:02:09 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 97414 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Apr 2008 01:02:09 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: rxoe8oMVM1kPP3QX36nLdC01Lf.XV9poJc3lxDtqBeIG7zfqwey1lmLBimA4TXrRkhgHU1eyMpyr_5wfEc9e05Mm3PSzzR0RRoiJIi6A_0exZTnvN61Rr08exp2tkp_LdvxS02QkBOwB1w1DWhhYnN2Fj5pL.3dqCIYZ9UUMgI3O5DdDWsg.siLUKr9Tm.LQ2mruW_LKjR_L5jKE3.7cqU1xfSReHcXt X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52103.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 18:02:08 PDT Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 18:02:08 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <180077.97174.qm@web52103.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.106 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Some news and personal oppnions about the Presidential election of TS 2008 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=pEIRS-zD6QtPqG65_bUZo6nD_AYBCN4nzctOBZIJfZSmmTA5zw X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43734 Unless they have a Master who can keep reviving them Cass Anton Rozman wrote: >While agree with your interpretation of the rules, in practice, it is the President who really head the TS.< >So the whole Society is functioning against its rules. But president is always also a chairman of the GC, so that's why president lead the Society.< Yes, pretty much so. But we should not lose that ideal from our view and should strive to come closer to it in the future. And because of the actual situation and absence of the official policy of the TS (at least a transparent and public one) I welcome John Algeo's presentation of his plan of activities. >And Anton, if president have seven year sick leave on her/his duty, what we do with such an president as an administrator?< As said, one who is not 100% at her/his best abilities should abstain to run for that office. Anton --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Jokela Petri wrote: > > > Well, I belive that real meetings face to face are more important. > It is easy to hide behind the internet world. But sure many other guru > also does have chatting hours or lectures in the net and that can rose up > some intrest to come over into real alive and vivid meetings. > > As a way of communication internet is very good and fast. > > I pretty much agree with MKR. So the whole Society is > functioning againts its rules. But president is always also a > chairman of the GC, so thats why president lead the Society. > > And Anton, if president have seven year sick leave on her/his duty, > what we do with such an president as an administrator? > > PJ > > > MKR kirjoitti: > > > > While agree with your interpretation of the rules, in practice, it is the > > President who really head the TS. That is what you will also see in the > > sections. The members go along and usually due to various complicated > > reasons rarely differ with the head. So we have to wait and see what is in > > store for the TS. > > > > One area where I have been repeatedly shouting is that the TS is not using > > Internet effectively. A passive website is ok. It is one way communication > > with the world which includes members. Two-way communication is lacking. > > With all the talk about Internet, technology, foresight, vision and > > all, for > > the last several years, even in the American Section, the progress is very > > very minimal. One wonders why? Perhaps it is the fear of inability to > > control flow and velocity of flow of info both ways. One cannot take > > advantage of time lag that paper mail allows. > > > > mkr > > > > On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 1:22 AM, Anton Rozman > > > > wrote: > > > > > In the Rules and Regulations of the TS we can read: "The General > > > Council shall be the Governing Body of The Theosophical Society." So, > > > it is the General Council which shall determine the policy of the > > > Society and not the President. The President is the "First > > > Administrator," the manager, who executes the policy determined by the > > > GC. And, as the GC shall be a body of representatives of all the > > > members of the Society, there are all the members of the Society who > > > shall determine the policy of the Society and, on the other hand, the > > > reason why the President is directly elected by all the members of the > > > Society. This is the idea, the democratic ideal in the Rules and > > > Regulations of the TS. And in this respect the issue of the health of > > > the President should be at all out of the question. > > > > > > Anton > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Sun Apr 27 18:39:49 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 65134 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2008 01:39:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2008 01:39:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52109.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.112) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2008 01:39:47 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 3863 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Apr 2008 01:39:43 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: _EzuR4MVM1lwg8gmZgKKxM0kLKesxjORwzbaKydgfJnn4r3y0OqhmI31uNzburoeNByvFAQcMmV7rU.Pktdc.YGfcMXRwJ0ftDlT0BNVx8JooRrpCPGeoMjX.a0- X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52109.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 18:39:43 PDT Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 18:39:43 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <813153.3124.qm@web52109.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.112 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Failure of Krishnamurti on the path of occultism X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=oMmssQYla0AGDWCfxpgp1g-B948Y9LLkVVRGVyS4t-n2YeK3YA X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43735 Anand, Krishnamurti never advocated the realization of self, so how could he have failed, if he didn't advocate it. Krishnamurti advocated the unpacking of the psyche by preconceived and inherited value systems, to stop living in the past, to self realise only by living in the now, which is ego realisation. Cass Anand wrote: J. Krishnamurti rejected Masters. He rejected following Masters. He rejected existence of path of occultism. Krishnamurti told people not to read books on spirituality and Theosophy. Krishnamurti told people to reject all teaching given by all great teachers including Jesus. Krishnamurti rejected idea of evolution. Krishnamurti talks of instant self realization. But in last seventy years nobody realized self by following his teaching. All this prove that Krishnamurti was a failure on the path of occultism. I am thinking of writing an article on how Krishnamurti failed on the path of occultism. It will give nightmares to fanatic followers of Krishnamurti. After reading my article on Krishnamurti, his followers will grind their teeth in darkness. They will cry. But that is what they deserve. God gives this punishment because Krishnamurti removed faith of people in God and scriptures. Regards. Anand Gholap --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Sun Apr 27 18:46:09 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 93845 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2008 01:46:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2008 01:46:08 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52112.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.115) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2008 01:46:07 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 77932 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Apr 2008 01:46:07 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: ZGv_qBUVM1nVzHij60NZd4jsw2KEuKJwI_TRZhQTCljZrtYhv2hpT0XGaSlKbaw05oil2GRF2pGRFfsi58DDWPknB_BVeKaadHRPi87WqQ3.P6tUgWH63mYII60- X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52112.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 18:46:07 PDT Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 18:46:07 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <312724.75098.qm@web52112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.115 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Failure of Krishnamurti on the path of occultism X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=2bk_eDEp6J8V3Oud21YtygFhBzXZnloc4y0_j4DL8s49yxOE0w X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43736 That's like saying you can accept Higher manas but reject Lower manas Cass Anand wrote: Krishnamurti's teaching is clearly opposite of what Theosophy teaches. You can either accept Theosophy and reject Krishnamurti, or you can reject Theosophy and accept Krishnamurti. Krishnamurti's speeches are logically false. His statements can be easily proved wrong. And I have written about it few months back in many forums. People attach lofty meaning to Krishnamurti's nonsense like truth is pathless land and such absurd statements. Anand Gholap --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Jokela Petri wrote: > > Laughing out loud:-) > I have never ever heard anyone who has so badly misundertood JK. > > PJ > > > Anand kirjoitti: > > > > J. Krishnamurti rejected Masters. He rejected following Masters. He > > rejected existence of path of occultism. Krishnamurti told people not > > to read books on spirituality and Theosophy. Krishnamurti told people > > to reject all teaching given by all great teachers including Jesus. > > Krishnamurti rejected idea of evolution. Krishnamurti talks of instant > > self realization. But in last seventy years nobody realized self by > > following his teaching. All this prove that Krishnamurti was a failure > > on the path of occultism. I am thinking of writing an article on how > > Krishnamurti failed on the path of occultism. > > It will give nightmares to fanatic followers of Krishnamurti. After > > reading my article on Krishnamurti, his followers will grind their > > teeth in darkness. They will cry. But that is what they deserve. God > > gives this punishment because Krishnamurti removed faith of people in > > God and scriptures. > > Regards. > > Anand Gholap > > > > > --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Sun Apr 27 18:47:11 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 72965 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2008 01:47:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2008 01:47:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d03.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.35) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2008 01:47:10 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d2e.1e40f1d8 (37533) for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 21:47:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from webmail-me14 (webmail-me14.webmail.aol.com [64.12.88.206]) by cia-mb01.mx.aol.com (v121.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMB016-929d48152c995a; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 21:47:05 -0400 References: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 21:47:05 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.199.151.243 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36240-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.199.151.243 by webmail-me14.sysops.aol.com (64.12.88.206) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sun, 27 Apr 2008 21:47:05 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA76E8E5C9851B-C04-1410@webmail-me14.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.157.35 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Elections - Radha Burnier's Health - Another personal observation X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=rG6MVNWbfGUS0gwRa-HLglCjja72d5F3WLbUpgnXmwnwqm379w X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43737 There is Truth and there is Politics.? They are mutually exclusive concepts. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: MKR To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 5:46 pm Subject: Theos-World TS Elections - Radha Burnier's Health - Another personal observation Here is a message of testimony. When you know false is false, that is when you find Truth. Many well known theosophical leaders have been misleading their members and others with inaccurate & false information regarding the health of Radha Burnier, with the hope of getting their candidate elected, and refuse to give credit to credible professional information. One wonders if in 21st century, is the motto of TS -- "No Religion is Higher Than Than Truth" -- is just a bunch of words that have no meaning in real day to day application. mkr ======================================= From: Gautama G To: G Gautama Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 12:57:41 AM Subject: The mails going around.. Presidential elections Dear Friends, I have been surprised at the mails that have been doing the rounds in the 'internet connected world'. it has been often on my mind to respond, because some of the mails were quite factually off.. However, thinking that merely adding another voice would not be of much use or even appropriate in the year of the Presidential election I have held back. But when the number of mails exceeded a threshold, I felt it is required to say something, one can be bystander, a silent watcher on, only that long! It was through a strange coincidence that Radhaji asked me to accompany her through her European tour in July 2007. She had fixed this up as early as September 2006, many months before her illness. I had the opportunity of being close to her for the whole month, except when she was in Holland, and travelling to Slovenia, Hungary, Finland and England. She gave talks, met people and I had many interesting conversations with her. She was completely aware of what she could do and what she could not. Her walk was firm and she could manage the travel quite well. On returning, one saw her slowly increase the pace of her work and the time spent in the office. And as I write this mail I see her in good condition. So it was surprising to hear canards being spread about her health and capacity. Yes, she is in her eighties and so it is not surprising to me that she has slowed a bit, and is thinking about the future of the TS and Adyar, in the manner of one who has some time, but not limitless time. As one who has worked with Radhaji, as a fellow Trustee of the Krishnamurti Foundation India, and one who has worked closely with her in the Olcott Education Society (I serve in the role of Secretary, Olcott Memorial School), one has always seen her speak her truth, however unpopular, however difficult. To construe that she is being political is to do her great injustice, and to miss the point completely. I am reminded of the famous words of the Sage Haridrumna Gautama to his 7 year old pupil, Jabala, "You are a Bramhin if you have the courage to speak a dangerous truth." I Think Radhaji has always done this... speaking the difficult truth.. With regards G. Gautama p.s. My fuller credentials.. I work in the Krishnamurti school in Damodar Gardens, since 1990 as it Principal. Prior to that I worked in the Olcott school In Besant Gardens as Director Crafts and Human Resources from 1987. My mother still works in the Adyar library - Parvati Gopalaratnam is 84 and my father, Late (Col) R.Gopalaratnam served the TS from 1970 to 2004 in several roles - as General manager, Convention officer, Manager TPH etc. My mother is Radha's cousin. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Sun Apr 27 18:59:22 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 48732 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2008 01:59:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2008 01:59:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.247) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2008 01:59:20 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b38so1268594ana.59 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 18:59:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.106.1 with SMTP id e1mr11003662anc.24.1209347959464; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 18:59:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 18:59:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 20:59:19 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8CA76E8E5C9851B-C04-1410@webmail-me14.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8CA76E8E5C9851B-C04-1410@webmail-me14.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.247 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Elections - Radha Burnier's Health - Another personal observation X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=EpsoJZBMU44Vc9K7MZPgC1drZZ2UbEcv0ldqrvF5QwvBoihCego Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43738 That makes perfect sense. What you see is not what reality is. mkr On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 8:47 PM, wrote: > There is Truth and there is Politics.? They are mutually exclusive > concepts. > > Chuck the Heretic > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > -----Original Message----- > From: MKR > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 5:46 pm > Subject: Theos-World TS Elections - Radha Burnier's Health - Another > personal observation > > Here is a message of testimony. > > When you know false is false, that is when you find Truth. > > Many well known theosophical leaders have been misleading their members > and > others with inaccurate & false information regarding the health of Radha > Burnier, with the hope of getting their candidate elected, and refuse to > give credit to credible professional information. One wonders if in 21st > century, is the motto of TS -- "No Religion is Higher Than Than Truth" -- > is > just a bunch of words that have no meaning in real day to day application. > > mkr > ======================================= > > From: Gautama G > > To: G Gautama > > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 12:57:41 AM > Subject: The mails going around.. Presidential elections > > Dear Friends, > > I have been surprised at the mails that have been doing the rounds in the > 'internet connected world'. it has been often on my mind to respond, > because > some of the mails were quite factually off.. However, thinking that merely > adding another voice would not be of much use or even appropriate in the > year of the Presidential election I have held back. > > But when the number of mails exceeded a threshold, I felt it is required > to > say something, one can be bystander, a silent watcher on, only that long! > > It was through a strange coincidence that Radhaji asked me to accompany > her > through her European tour in July 2007. She had fixed this up as early as > September 2006, many months before her illness. I had the opportunity of > being close to her for the whole month, except when she was in Holland, > and > travelling to Slovenia, Hungary, Finland and England. She gave talks, met > people and I had many interesting conversations with her. She was > completely > aware of what she could do and what she could not. Her walk was firm and > she > could manage the travel quite well. > > On returning, one saw her slowly increase the pace of her work and the > time > spent in the office. And as I write this mail I see her in good condition. > So it was surprising to hear canards being spread about her health and > capacity. > > Yes, she is in her eighties and so it is not surprising to me that she has > slowed a bit, and is thinking about the future of the TS and Adyar, in the > manner of one who has some time, but not limitless time. As one who has > worked with Radhaji, as a fellow Trustee of the Krishnamurti Foundation > India, and one who has worked closely with her in the Olcott Education > Society (I serve in the role of Secretary, Olcott Memorial School), one > has > always seen her speak her truth, however unpopular, however difficult. To > construe that she is being political is to do her great injustice, and to > miss the point completely. > > I am reminded of the famous words of the Sage Haridrumna Gautama to his 7 > year old pupil, Jabala, "You are a Bramhin if you have the courage to > speak > a dangerous truth." I Think Radhaji has always done this... speaking the > difficult truth.. > > With regards > > G. Gautama > > p.s. My fuller credentials.. I work in the Krishnamurti school in Damodar > Gardens, since 1990 as it Principal. Prior to that I worked in the Olcott > school In Besant Gardens as Director Crafts and Human Resources from 1987. > My mother still works in the Adyar library - Parvati Gopalaratnam is 84 > and > my father, Late (Col) R.Gopalaratnam served the TS from 1970 to 2004 in > several roles - as General manager, Convention officer, Manager TPH etc. > My > mother is Radha's cousin. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jokelap@dnainternet.net Sun Apr 27 21:25:14 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: jokelap@dnainternet.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 23556 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2008 04:25:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2008 04:25:11 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.dnainternet.fi) (87.94.96.108) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2008 04:25:11 -0000 X-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (223-243.adsl.lpoy.dnainternet.fi [78.27.77.243]) by smtp1.dnainternet.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id E67AEC8EB for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:25:08 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <481551A6.1030403@dnainternet.net> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:25:10 +0300 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 87.94.96.108 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:3:4:0:0 From: Jokela Petri Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Elections - Radha Burnier's Health - Another personal observation X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=281705993; y=gUkuaBfA0GPNO1ccYFzywUtjWgS36W0cPCsjbiQtzUMoET-lCsdu X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43739 Thanx for bringing this out! PJ MKR kirjoitti: > > Here is a message of testimony. > > When you know false is false, that is when you find Truth. > > Many well known theosophical leaders have been misleading their > members and > others with inaccurate & false information regarding the health of Radha > Burnier, with the hope of getting their candidate elected, and refuse to > give credit to credible professional information. One wonders if in 21st > century, is the motto of TS -- "No Religion is Higher Than Than Truth" > -- is > just a bunch of words that have no meaning in real day to day application. > > mkr > ======================================= > > From: Gautama G > > To: G Gautama > > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 12:57:41 AM > Subject: The mails going around.. Presidential elections > > Dear Friends, > > I have been surprised at the mails that have been doing the rounds in the > 'internet connected world'. it has been often on my mind to respond, > because > some of the mails were quite factually off.. However, thinking that merely > adding another voice would not be of much use or even appropriate in the > year of the Presidential election I have held back. > > But when the number of mails exceeded a threshold, I felt it is > required to > say something, one can be bystander, a silent watcher on, only that long! > > It was through a strange coincidence that Radhaji asked me to > accompany her > through her European tour in July 2007. She had fixed this up as early as > September 2006, many months before her illness. I had the opportunity of > being close to her for the whole month, except when she was in > Holland, and > travelling to Slovenia, Hungary, Finland and England. She gave talks, met > people and I had many interesting conversations with her. She was > completely > aware of what she could do and what she could not. Her walk was firm > and she > could manage the travel quite well. > > On returning, one saw her slowly increase the pace of her work and the > time > spent in the office. And as I write this mail I see her in good condition. > So it was surprising to hear canards being spread about her health and > capacity. > > Yes, she is in her eighties and so it is not surprising to me that she has > slowed a bit, and is thinking about the future of the TS and Adyar, in the > manner of one who has some time, but not limitless time. As one who has > worked with Radhaji, as a fellow Trustee of the Krishnamurti Foundation > India, and one who has worked closely with her in the Olcott Education > Society (I serve in the role of Secretary, Olcott Memorial School), > one has > always seen her speak her truth, however unpopular, however difficult. To > construe that she is being political is to do her great injustice, and to > miss the point completely. > > I am reminded of the famous words of the Sage Haridrumna Gautama to his 7 > year old pupil, Jabala, "You are a Bramhin if you have the courage to > speak > a dangerous truth." I Think Radhaji has always done this... speaking the > difficult truth.. > > With regards > > G. Gautama > > p.s. My fuller credentials.. I work in the Krishnamurti school in Damodar > Gardens, since 1990 as it Principal. Prior to that I worked in the Olcott > school In Besant Gardens as Director Crafts and Human Resources from 1987. > My mother still works in the Adyar library - Parvati Gopalaratnam is > 84 and > my father, Late (Col) R.Gopalaratnam served the TS from 1970 to 2004 in > several roles - as General manager, Convention officer, Manager TPH > etc. My > mother is Radha's cousin. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > From mail@katinkahesselink.net Sun Apr 27 23:04:26 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mail@katinkahesselink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 42746 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2008 06:04:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2008 06:04:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n1.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.128) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2008 06:04:23 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.87] by n1.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Apr 2008 06:04:23 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t3.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Apr 2008 06:04:22 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Apr 2008 06:04:22 -0000 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 06:04:22 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.103.128 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 209.73.164.226 From: "Katinka Hesselink" Subject: Re: TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=92802723; y=VMkujW3m_pBm9jhKikFlJ0_hMS9tWXFaMT-xu9mi2yXaqdaw163c-7gl9UA X-Yahoo-Profile: katinka_hesselink X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43740 Hi all, This letter isn't exactly convincing as John Algeo is actually the younger of the two candidates. I vividly remember my dismay when Radha told Australian members of the TS that the internet was not a good place for spreading theosophy - because it was also a place where a lot of porn was being spread. This was a few years ago, and I'm sure she's changed her opinion since - but it sure didn't help the TS Adyar become a force online. We are still lagging behind the TS Pasadena and the ULT - though the ULT has 'helped' us by deleting a large amount of valuable online material from their website.=20 Offline the TS Adyar is the only serious theosophical organisation. But online one would think the TS Pasadena really is as big if not bigger. While we can't blame Radha for this situation exclusively - national sections and individuals were at fault for listening to her - I do feel it shows that Radha really isn't the person for the job for another 7 years.=20 Katinka Hesselink http://www.katinkahesselink.net/ --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, MKR wrote: > > I just received the following from cyberspace. It makes interesting reading > and you decide for yourself. >=20 > mkr >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Dear Colleague, >=20 > This is to inform you that I have received 14 nominations from General > Secretaries etc, who represent a totality of 17,037 votes. Dr John Algeo has > received 21 nominations, representing a totality of 10,685 votes. >=20 > I think we need younger people to be in charge of the Society's work and > that they have to stay in Adyar. Dr. Algeo who is around 78, does not like > the climate here, nor can he leave the United States for more than a short > time, in view of his wife's condition. I believe that if elected he intends > to work largely from America through e-mail and video conversations. >=20 > It is necessary to have the right candidates for the officers of the > Theosophical Society. I believe that Mrs Linda Oliveira and her husband, and > some members from Britain , etc., will be coming to Adyar shortly, to stay > and work here. >=20 > You know very well that since Col. H.S. Olcott, all Presidents have lived at > Adyar, and this was not merely a matter of their convenience. Adyar has been > considered as a Spiritual Centre. From here the work of the Society can best > send forth the power and blessing of the Elder Brethren. Such programmes as > the International Convention and the School of the Wisdom, which are > features of Adyar attract many members from around the world. Many of these > members are able to return to their lodges with a greater understanding of > the purpose of the Society and the work of the Founders. >=20 > In my view it would not be a good thing to have somebody live in the United > States and run Adyar by proxy. Adyar should be maintained as a living > Headquarters for reasons which are obvious to those who know the history of > the Society. >=20 > Yours fraternally, >=20 > Radha Burnier >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > From Mvandertak@yahoo.com Mon Apr 28 00:53:42 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mvandertak@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 11739 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2008 07:53:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2008 07:53:39 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52610.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.213) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2008 07:53:39 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 34009 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Apr 2008 07:53:39 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: taCRPqsVM1n_kbDf8S3b_fPD6DDyJ3laY.vlWl1Z4FC5zUadSJbvezprX4sYRpX3hDYx6yM4juCSvbkNUDF3I.ulhhWhpEtoJm5PRMZRBxTanIEteNwpfg-- X-Received: from [82.217.39.103] by web52610.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 00:53:38 PDT Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 00:53:38 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <229840.33442.qm@web52610.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.213 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Martin Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=38276385; y=Lb_4ZixeoOkfTL6yMCb1NnmijJbBmi-gCs_F8s38d_7m05pb9Q X-Yahoo-Profile: mvandertak X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43741 Lol, thats actually the same as, don't spread the message of Theosophy in this society, since it is full of selfishness and war??? And what is wrong with porn? To display what is a result of seperateness could only help the pupil find wholeness. To see the same in a rose or vagina, in a churchtower or a penis, its all in the mind and cause of a lot of confusion and prejudice. To confront the 'enemy' with his taboos surely leads to right insight even to the 'enemy'. Celibacy can only be understood when experiencing sexuality only being the attraction of the personality with its own creator and not between 2 different people. Procreation is only there where the people can't work life out themselves and need another human. Of course there are exceptions, Buddha also had a child, but he left it and his wife to work out His life. Adam couldn't find his way in life so he begat Eve, you could also say. What matters most is to understand seperateness, it was the most important teaching of the Buddha. We are one but not the same because one personality can't be another. However when a personality has been worked through it becomes a voice of the Omnipresence. --- Katinka Hesselink wrote: I vividly remember my > dismay when Radha > told Australian members of the TS that the internet > was not a good > place for spreading theosophy - because it was also > a place where a > lot of porn was being spread. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From mkr777@gmail.com Mon Apr 28 03:30:04 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 52860 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2008 10:30:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2008 10:30:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.244) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2008 10:30:01 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c35so1165998anc.16 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 03:30:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.41.1 with SMTP id o1mr11500994ano.10.1209378599850; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 03:29:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 03:29:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 05:29:59 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.244 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=bpcQZsWEhWqHj424bQiuA3_PjH68cqkRviBgHQV0ON_6hTBfXyY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43742 That is very interesting. This just points out that no one seems to have taken the trouble to "educate" Radha Burnier on the real power and potentiality of Internet as a tool. Like any tool, there are always some downsides. Contrast this with the interest that Jiddu Krishnamurti showed in trying to learn the capabilities of computer in his discussions with Asit Chandmal. Of course in 80s the personal computer technology was still in its infancy and the combination of personal computers and communication had not taken place. Asit Chandmal, had first hand personal experience with computer applications in commercial environment in late 60s and hence he was in a position to discuss with JK in an understandable simple way. So I lay the fault on those people around her both in India and world over. Now the issue is not Radha Burnier's knowledge of the potential of computer technology. Today, Internet has made it possible for you and me as individuals do a lot of things to further theosophy. The simple issue in the election is Radha Burnier's health. The nominations and subsequent electioneering was based on her poor physical and mental health, which has been proved to be false. Three doctors have opined that she is physically and mentally fit. There is also additional statement from someone who had spent months with her during her last overseas travel. But those Section leaders who have urged to elect Algeo based on this erroneous basis, have not had the courage to come out and admit their errors and tell their members of the new facts that have come out. The silence of the leaders, makes a mockery of the motto of TS -- "There is No Religion Higher Than Truth" and make them no better than the politicians of today who will resort to anything to win an election. This can cause more harm to theosophical movement than even what Columb controversy did since it goes to the root of theosophy -- TRUTH. By the way, I was fortunate in growing up with computer technology. When I first saw e-mail application and the sudden spread of Internet several years ago, I immediately saw its great potential for spread of theosophy just from the e-mail application. Internet reminded me of HPB's statement how when a new Race comes on, it really sneaks up and one day you find a substantial population. That is how Internet sneaked up on the world. mkr On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 1:04 AM, Katinka Hesselink < mail@katinkahesselink.net> wrote: > Hi all, > > This letter isn't exactly convincing as John Algeo is actually the > younger of the two candidates. I vividly remember my dismay when Radha > told Australian members of the TS that the internet was not a good > place for spreading theosophy - because it was also a place where a > lot of porn was being spread. This was a few years ago, and I'm sure > she's changed her opinion since - but it sure didn't help the TS Adyar > become a force online. We are still lagging behind the TS Pasadena and > the ULT - though the ULT has 'helped' us by deleting a large amount of > valuable online material from their website. > > Offline the TS Adyar is the only serious theosophical organisation. > But online one would think the TS Pasadena really is as big if not > bigger. While we can't blame Radha for this situation exclusively - > national sections and individuals were at fault for listening to her - > I do feel it shows that Radha really isn't the person for the job for > another 7 years. > > Katinka Hesselink > > http://www.katinkahesselink.net/ > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com , MKR > wrote: > > > > I just received the following from cyberspace. It makes interesting > reading > > and you decide for yourself. > > > > mkr > > > > ============================================================== > > Dear Colleague, > > > > This is to inform you that I have received 14 nominations from General > > Secretaries etc, who represent a totality of 17,037 votes. Dr John > Algeo has > > received 21 nominations, representing a totality of 10,685 votes. > > > > I think we need younger people to be in charge of the Society's work and > > that they have to stay in Adyar. Dr. Algeo who is around 78, does > not like > > the climate here, nor can he leave the United States for more than a > short > > time, in view of his wife's condition. I believe that if elected he > intends > > to work largely from America through e-mail and video conversations. > > > > It is necessary to have the right candidates for the officers of the > > Theosophical Society. I believe that Mrs Linda Oliveira and her > husband, and > > some members from Britain , etc., will be coming to Adyar shortly, > to stay > > and work here. > > > > You know very well that since Col. H.S. Olcott, all Presidents have > lived at > > Adyar, and this was not merely a matter of their convenience. Adyar > has been > > considered as a Spiritual Centre. From here the work of the Society > can best > > send forth the power and blessing of the Elder Brethren. Such > programmes as > > the International Convention and the School of the Wisdom, which are > > features of Adyar attract many members from around the world. Many > of these > > members are able to return to their lodges with a greater > understanding of > > the purpose of the Society and the work of the Founders. > > > > In my view it would not be a good thing to have somebody live in the > United > > States and run Adyar by proxy. Adyar should be maintained as a living > > Headquarters for reasons which are obvious to those who know the > history of > > the Society. > > > > Yours fraternally, > > > > Radha Burnier > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com Mon Apr 28 03:58:55 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 25555 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2008 10:58:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2008 10:58:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n37b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.151) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2008 10:58:53 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n37.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Apr 2008 10:58:53 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Apr 2008 10:58:53 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Apr 2008 10:58:52 -0000 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:58:50 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.168.151 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 209.73.164.200 From: "christinaleestemaker" Subject: Re: Failure of Krishnamurti on the path of occultism X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162317756; y=4pDXoAfswPB2HBhkHwsxXwP8tuuPisbFfo8hxiRYej1L8k9z4CPhXU69Yncqf9c X-Yahoo-Profile: christinaleestemaker X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43743 Don't forget he was the pupil of Annie Besant and Leadbeater!!! That was reason for R.Steiner ( because he did not believe in this=20 world teacher)to leave theosophy and bring his antroposophical=20 teachings, which starts with working in and within nature.=20 Christina --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Anand" wrote: > > J. Krishnamurti rejected Masters. He rejected following Masters. He > rejected existence of path of occultism. Krishnamurti told people=20 not > to read books on spirituality and Theosophy. Krishnamurti told=20 people > to reject all teaching given by all great teachers including Jesus. > Krishnamurti rejected idea of evolution. Krishnamurti talks of=20 instant > self realization. But in last seventy years nobody realized self by > following his teaching. All this prove that Krishnamurti was a=20 failure > on the path of occultism. I am thinking of writing an article on how > Krishnamurti failed on the path of occultism. > It will give nightmares to fanatic followers of Krishnamurti. After > reading my article on Krishnamurti, his followers will grind their > teeth in darkness. They will cry. But that is what they deserve. God > gives this punishment because Krishnamurti removed faith of people=20 in > God and scriptures. > Regards. > Anand Gholap > From mkr777@gmail.com Mon Apr 28 04:44:44 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 78302 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2008 11:44:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2008 11:44:41 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.251) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2008 11:44:41 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c38so1280392ana.82 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 04:44:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.42.4 with SMTP id p4mr11525994anp.118.1209383077699; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 04:44:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 04:44:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 06:44:37 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.251 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Failure of Krishnamurti on the path of occultism X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=7grRl-qfJOsASC8jfdpxxhnSH9xrH4yoe0ntG2cBwSOZkFNBUGo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43744 What does it matter if some one else succeeded or failed on the path of occultism? I would like to meet someone who has succeeded in the path of occultism. If there is anyone in this list, let him/her speak up. One thing JK brought to the attention to all, is the fact that the individual is important and a single individual can make a difference in the world. Great changes in the world were due to single individuals and not masses. So let us all move forward with confidence and do our best on our own without the crutch of some one else or some scripture or some sacred book. mkr On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 5:58 AM, christinaleestemaker < christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com> wrote: > Don't forget he was the pupil of Annie Besant and Leadbeater!!! > > That was reason for R.Steiner ( because he did not believe in this > world teacher)to leave theosophy and bring his antroposophical > teachings, which starts with working in and within nature. > > Christina > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com , "Anand" > wrote: > > > > J. Krishnamurti rejected Masters. He rejected following Masters. He > > rejected existence of path of occultism. Krishnamurti told people > not > > to read books on spirituality and Theosophy. Krishnamurti told > people > > to reject all teaching given by all great teachers including Jesus. > > Krishnamurti rejected idea of evolution. Krishnamurti talks of > instant > > self realization. But in last seventy years nobody realized self by > > following his teaching. All this prove that Krishnamurti was a > failure > > on the path of occultism. I am thinking of writing an article on how > > Krishnamurti failed on the path of occultism. > > It will give nightmares to fanatic followers of Krishnamurti. After > > reading my article on Krishnamurti, his followers will grind their > > teeth in darkness. They will cry. But that is what they deserve. God > > gives this punishment because Krishnamurti removed faith of people > in > > God and scriptures. > > Regards. > > Anand Gholap > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com Mon Apr 28 05:40:21 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 37450 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2008 12:40:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2008 12:40:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n47d.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.173) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2008 12:40:18 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n47.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Apr 2008 12:40:18 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Apr 2008 12:40:18 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Apr 2008 12:40:18 -0000 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:40:17 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.169.173 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 209.73.164.226 From: "christinaleestemaker" Subject: Theos-World Re: Failure of Krishnamurti on the path of occultism X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162317756; y=MJTFVLksG1QaD_2f8Krb1yi6XIlTq4HtyIMsarRmBtamHTxER8mYn-MF5NVbUAU X-Yahoo-Profile: christinaleestemaker X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43745 I did not say that J Krishnamurti failed on the path of occultism,=20 how can I That are the words of Anand and Anand must not forget that J=20 Krishnamurti was the pupil from Annie Besant and Leadbeater. fr regards Christina --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, MKR wrote: > > What does it matter if some one else succeeded or failed on the=20 path of > occultism? I would like to meet someone who has succeeded in the=20 path of > occultism. If there is anyone in this list, let him/her speak up. >=20 > One thing JK brought to the attention to all, is the fact that the > individual is important and a single individual can make a=20 difference in the > world. Great changes in the world were due to single individuals=20 and not > masses. >=20 > So let us all move forward with confidence and do our best on our=20 own > without the crutch of some one else or some scripture or some=20 sacred book. >=20 > mkr >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 5:58 AM, christinaleestemaker < > christinaleestemaker@...> wrote: >=20 > > Don't forget he was the pupil of Annie Besant and Leadbeater!!! > > > > That was reason for R.Steiner ( because he did not believe in this > > world teacher)to leave theosophy and bring his antroposophical > > teachings, which starts with working in and within nature. > > > > Christina > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ,=20 "Anand" > > wrote: > > > > > > J. Krishnamurti rejected Masters. He rejected following=20 Masters. He > > > rejected existence of path of occultism. Krishnamurti told=20 people > > not > > > to read books on spirituality and Theosophy. Krishnamurti told > > people > > > to reject all teaching given by all great teachers including=20 Jesus. > > > Krishnamurti rejected idea of evolution. Krishnamurti talks of > > instant > > > self realization. But in last seventy years nobody realized=20 self by > > > following his teaching. All this prove that Krishnamurti was a > > failure > > > on the path of occultism. I am thinking of writing an article=20 on how > > > Krishnamurti failed on the path of occultism. > > > It will give nightmares to fanatic followers of Krishnamurti.=20 After > > > reading my article on Krishnamurti, his followers will grind=20 their > > > teeth in darkness. They will cry. But that is what they=20 deserve. God > > > gives this punishment because Krishnamurti removed faith of=20 people > > in > > > God and scriptures. > > > Regards. > > > Anand Gholap > > > > > > >=20=20 > > >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > From Drpsionic@aol.com Mon Apr 28 08:40:10 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 3117 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2008 15:40:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2008 15:40:06 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m24.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.5) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2008 15:40:06 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.be4.2de73511 (37146) for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:39:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from webmail-da04 (webmail-da04.webmail.aol.com [205.188.212.199]) by cia-ma03.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMA038-911a4815efa11bc; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:39:14 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:39:14 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.199.151.243 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36240-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.199.151.243 by webmail-da04.sysops.aol.com (205.188.212.199) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:39:14 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA775D2520F70F-DBC-E64@webmail-da04.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.5 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=hN3ji2nshQ9sgw30AoXNLFTJeaMDx1lGticRahp3QnfW1tsa0Q X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43746 That line from Radha was also heard at Olcott, with everyone aghast, and afterwards there was a lot of muttering that she had lost what few marbles had remained to her. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: Katinka Hesselink To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 1:04 am Subject: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar President Election Hi all, This letter isn't exactly convincing as John Algeo is actually the younger of the two candidates. I vividly remember my dismay when Radha told Australian members of the TS that the internet was not a good place for spreading theosophy - because it was also a place where a lot of porn was being spread. This was a few years ago, and I'm sure she's changed her opinion since - but it sure didn't help the TS Adyar become a force online. We are still lagging behind the TS Pasadena and the ULT - though the ULT has 'helped' us by deleting a large amount of valuable online material from their website. Offline the TS Adyar is the only serious theosophical organisation. But online one would think the TS Pasadena really is as big if not bigger. While we can't blame Radha for this situation exclusively - national sections and individuals were at fault for listening to her - I do feel it shows that Radha really isn't the person for the job for another 7 years. Katinka Hesselink http://www.katinkahesselink.net/ --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, MKR wrote: > > I just received the following from cyberspace. It makes interesting reading > and you decide for yourself. > > mkr > > ============================================================== > Dear Colleague, > > This is to inform you that I have received 14 nominations from General > Secretaries etc, who represent a totality of 17,037 votes. Dr John Algeo has > received 21 nominations, representing a totality of 10,685 votes. > > I think we need younger people to be in charge of the Society's work and > that they have to stay in Adyar. Dr. Algeo who is around 78, does not like > the climate here, nor can he leave the United States for more than a short > time, in view of his wife's condition. I believe that if elected he intends > to work largely from America through e-mail and video conversations. > > It is necessary to have the right candidates for the officers of the > Theosophical Society. I believe that Mrs Linda Oliveira and her husband, and > some members from Britain , etc., will be coming to Adyar shortly, to stay > and work here. > > You know very well that since Col. H.S. Olcott, all Presidents have lived at > Adyar, and this was not merely a matter of their convenience. Adyar has been > considered as a Spiritual Centre. From here the work of the Society can best > send forth the power and blessing of the Elder Brethren. Such programmes as > the International Convention and the School of the Wisdom, which are > features of Adyar attract many members from around the world. Many of these > members are able to return to their lodges with a greater understanding of > the purpose of the Society and the work of the Founders. > > In my view it would not be a good thing to have somebody live in the United > States and run Adyar by proxy. Adyar should be maintained as a living > Headquarters for reasons which are obvious to those who know the history of > the Society. > > Yours fraternally, > > Radha Burnier > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Mon Apr 28 10:42:34 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 87502 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2008 17:42:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2008 17:42:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.247) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2008 17:42:32 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c35so1204799anc.16 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:42:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.37.20 with SMTP id k20mr12255931ank.5.1209404551370; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:42:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:42:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:42:31 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Theosophy Study List" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.247 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: New Theosophy Forum - Please visit and enjoy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=4Rrjlup_CKc3hdbyQkvP7VyGXP_QRZAd-WpxPs-git2ywr-56Fc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43747 I just learnt about a new blog for theosophy issues. You may like what you see and want to share your thoughts and responses. http://theosophicalsociety.wordpress.com/ Ramadoss [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Mon Apr 28 10:53:44 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 73413 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2008 17:53:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2008 17:53:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wr-out-0506.google.com) (64.233.184.235) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2008 17:53:41 -0000 X-Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 70so2581057wra.22 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:53:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.14.2 with SMTP id 2mr12228178ann.67.1209405220663; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:53:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:53:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:53:40 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 64.233.184.235 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS Election - Timeline X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=KCzmBt7FZZbTMgXVdT9o5BuPzzwk1wOU2Xzzs_oqhwGzf0AmPSc Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43748 Here is a timeline prepared by Pedro and posted on theos-l. mkr =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D I11 November 2006 =96 Radha Burnier, President of the Theosophical Society, suffers a mild stroke at her residence in Adyar. She herself telephoned her doctor who recommended rest. 26 December 2006 =96 Radha Burnier declares the 131st International Convention at Adyar open. The Presidential Address is delivered in part by the Vice-President, Dr John Algeo, and by the International Secretary, Mary Anderson. Mrs Burnier attended a number of Convention events. 27 February 2007 =96 The Vice-President, Dr John Algeo, issues an electronic newsletter entitled MESSAGE FROM THE VICE-PRESIDENT, which was sent out to all General Secretaries, Presidential Representatives, Organising Secretaries of the TS world wide, plus a number of individual members. He commented on the President's condition: "As you have doubtless heard, the President had a light stroke in November. It did not affect her body or her mind except for a slight and temporary memory loss with respect to names. Her doctor predicts a full recovery, which will take several months. At present she is progressing nicely and doing very well. She attended all the major meetings during Convention, although she let others do some of the speaking and presiding that she normally does. She has taken a short time off (which she well deserves) to recuperate, free from the demands on her at headquarters, but she is now back at Adyar and attending to business. While I was at Adyar in December and January, I had extensive discussions with her about Theosophical business around the world, and she is on top of all the facts and her judgment is as sharp as ever. The outlook is very favorable for a full recovery. The Adyar staff responded in exemplary fashion during convention, and all went very well indeed." 1 to 18 July 2007 =96 Having recovered from the mild stroke, Mrs Burnier undertook an European tour, visiting and lecturing in several countries, including Slovenia, Hungary and Finland. In this last country she, together with Ven. Prof. Samdhong Rinpoche, Prime- Minister of the Tibetan Governement in Exile, were the guests of honour at the triennial European Congress of the TS, which included the Centennial Celebration of the Finnish Section. 19 December 2007 =96 Elvira Carbonell, then assistant to the International Secretary, Mary Anderson, sends out an email letter to members of the General Council, the day after official Nomination papers were issued by the International Secretary by ordinary mail. Among other things the letter says: "Since there has been uncertainty about the state of our President's health and our Vice-President's willingness and ability to accept nominations for the upcoming Presidential election, several of us at Adyar feel the need to write to the members of the General Council to share the following information." "We have learned that our Vice-President has been asked if he will accept nominations, and have confirmation from him that although he is not eager to run for President, he will do what seems to be in the best interest of the Society when the time comes, and he will accept nominations. We have also received confirmation from him that he feels Adyar has to remain the international Headquarters of the TS, for both practical and symbolical reasons." 4 March 2008 - Radha Burnier was awarded the Chennaionline Golden Lotus Award 2008 for her lifetime achievements in theosophy at a function in Chennai. Her work inspires "human regeneration, self- knowledge, truth, beauty and goodness," said Latha Rajendran, secretary and correspondent of Dr. MGR Janaki College of Arts and Science for Women. The function was organised by Chennaionline as part of the International Women's Day celebrations. 12 March 2008 =96 Radha Burnier writes a letter, by ordinary mail, in her personal letterhead, to all General Secretaries of the TS, stating her personal views about the nomination process and highlighting the importance of Presidents of the TS to reside at Adyar. The full text of her letter can be seen here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/43516 19 March 2008 =96 Mrs Betty Bland, National President of the TS in America, circulates an email message to all General Secretaries, accusing Radha Burnier of blatant electioneering. Among other things she says: "Her memory and clarity are inconsistent, sometimes right on, and sometimes far afield=97as is the case for all of us when aging, especially by stroke, takes its toll." Bland includes in her email message John Algeo's personal, and multilingual, website. The full text of her letter can be seen here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/43531 20 March 2008 =96 Miss Tran Thi Kim Dieu, Chairman of the European Federation of the TS, circularizes an email message for wide distribution. Commenting on Radha's letter, Kim Dieu says, among other things: "What a pity that such a great soul now errs because of the misfunctioning of the brain!" 29 March 2008 =96 The French TS Board issues a circular letter, signed by Mme. Maxence Ondet, to all TS members in France, which are 387, with several statements about Radha's health, including: "In November 2006, she had a serious stroke which left her unable to speak for at least a month and deprived her of a large part of her memory. Her recovery was slow and incomplete, especially as far as short term memory and recall of names are concerned. In conversation, she no longer understands anything but short and simple sentences." The French letter also said: "The leaders of several Sections in the world present at the Convention at Adyar in December 2007 noticed with sadness and embarrassment the great difficulty with which she delivered her principal Convention address, an address that was wandering and repetitive, and showed a weakened mind or brain damage." The full text of the French TS Board letter can be seen here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-l/message/2275 11 April 2008 =96 Betty Bland issues a personal letter to American TS member before the ballot papers were sent to them. In it she says: "Radha seems to be recovering physically from the stroke she suffered over a year ago, but, given her age, she still has periods of low energy and her memory is inconsistent. While I have deep respect for the wonderful service she has given to the Society and feel she can continue to be useful as a wise elder, it is for the good of the whole that the leadership pass smoothly to John Algeo, who currently serves as the international Vice-president." She then concludes: "I hope you seriously consider this information when casting your vote." According to the official 2007 Annual Report of the TS, published by the International Secretary at Adyar, the American Section of the TS has 4,072 members. 19 April 2008 =96 The Election Committee at Adyar issues a letter to Mrs Nano (Jeannine) Leguay, General Secretary, The Theosophical Society in France. Enclosing two medical certificates from Radha's doctors that attest to her complete recovery from her mild stroke of November 2006 and that she was allowed to drive a car. After pointing out a number of untruths in the French Board letter, the Committee stated: "If the General Council and the Executive Committee of the Society had thought that her mental condition affected the Society's work, they would have said so and considered her candidature a liability. The fact that many Sections agreed to nominate her proves her suitability and not the contrary." The Committee further instructs the French General Secretary to "take immediate action to counteract the impression created in the letter from Maxence Ondet dated 29 March 2008." The full text of Radha's doctors' certificates can be seen here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/43632 23 April 2008 =96 John Algeo adds a Hindi web page to his website. ---xxx--- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Mon Apr 28 11:32:34 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 80843 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2008 18:32:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2008 18:32:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wx-out-0506.google.com) (66.249.82.232) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2008 18:32:32 -0000 X-Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id h27so4080023wxd.15 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:32:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.41.16 with SMTP id o16mr12268859ano.132.1209407548678; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:32:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:32:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:32:28 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 66.249.82.232 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: New Theosophy Forum - Blog - Limitations X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=OWgP_x90rHGvZn3sO1h9A2R3NjexU-geGY0NMOJImRGBWjz5a8o Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43749 I visited the new Forum/Blog and there is some useful information in it. However, on a closer reading, I found out the following: 1. It is a moderated (censored) forum. 2. Chris is too close to the TS in America administration. Hence there are limits to his independence when moderation issues come up. 3. Moderated forums generally are not popular in the Internet. You may have good interest from those who toe the official line. It should be recalled, some years ago, there was a maillist ts-l, owned and moderated by TSA which fell on its face. 4. Even in unmoderated forums such as theos-talk and theos-l, they tend to be self-moderating without the interference of the owner. Any unreasonable message posted do bring strong response from other readers and that itself makes it recalliberating. It is extremely rare that the owner had to intervene. In such cases, the poster is banned from posting. So when you read the msgs in the blog, keep the above in view. In view of the above reasons, you will find very valuable information on theos-talk and theos-l which you will not find anywhere else. mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Mon Apr 28 11:53:46 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 72793 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2008 18:53:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2008 18:53:43 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.245) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2008 18:53:43 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b20so1259791ana.27 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:53:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.173.9 with SMTP id v9mr12296318ane.150.1209408823165; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:53:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:53:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:53:43 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.245 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: New Theosophy Forum -- Questions??? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=0VUoqOeHSQnxY04Fvtar_-PggKSEFKtB5iANslxbn2vAVfY68m4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43750 The new theosophy forum - blog (moderated one) set up by Chris Richardson, who is an officer of Theosophical Society in America and I do not know if he is employed by TSA at Olcott. In view of the fact it is a moderated one and Chris's position with TSA, while theoretically he has total freedom, in practice it may be very limited. Also, when we all learnt how many of the Nominators/GSs in the International President Election, have tried to use the ruse of health of Radha Burnier as a tool to influence the voters, and later doctors' evaluation has settled the health question, the Nominators of Algeo have maintained their silence. So is the setting up of the blog a tactic to get their point of view on the internet without leaving their finger prints?. Only time will tell. mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Mon Apr 28 12:12:47 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 15214 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2008 19:12:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2008 19:12:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mx01.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.11) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2008 19:12:43 -0000 X-Received: from 56341115.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.17.21] helo=khidr) by mx01.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1JqYmI-0007tZ-1u for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:12:42 +0200 Message-ID: <001e01c8a963$e0a3d970$15113456@khidr> To: Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:13:01 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.11 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" Subject: To preserve the true religious and philosophical spirit of ancient India X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=NXMaX8l2KeXJk65GvvX_fBdaVMjvtUGkF64JyflqYWm7 X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43751 To all readers My views are: A few words about theosophy mostly from the hands of H. P. Blavatsky might be helpful to consider when talking about the use of the Internet and our future. 1. "Neither The Path nor Lucifer--least of all The Theosophist, are for the masses. To understand them requires educated readers, and, in most cases, high metaphysicians; and, therefore, none of these magazines can ever become popular. What you American Theosophists require, indeed, are extracts and a weekly paper as cheap as you can make them. Have an organ wherein to defend the Cause from insidious attacks, from misrepresentation and lies, and teach people the truth, and very soon the enemy will have no hold upon us. Teach the common laborer the truths he fails to find in the churches, and you will soon have saved half of the mankind of civilized countries, for the PATH is easier to the poor and the single of heart, than to the cultured and the rich." (((Collected Writings of H. P. Blavatsky Online - Vol. 12, s. 597 - http://www.tonh.net/theosofie/hpb_cw_online/articles/v12/y1890_055.htm))) ******* 2. "The danger is lessened only by the fact that every occult book, so called, is occult only in a certain sense; that is, the text is occult merely by reason of its blinds. The symbolism has to be thoroughly understood before the reader can get at the correct sense of the teaching. Moreover, it is never complete, its several portions each being under a different title and each containing a portion of some other work; so that without a key to these no such work divulges the whole truth." (((Collected Writings of H. P. Blavatsky Online - Vol. 12, s. 605 - http://www.tonh.net/theosofie/hpb_cw_online/articles/v12/y1890_055.htm))) ******* 3. "These early misconceptions notwithstanding, the idea of the Masters, and belief in Them, has already brought its good fruit in India. Their chief desire was to preserve the true religious and philosophical spirit of ancient India; to defend the Ancient Wisdom contained in its Daroanas and Upanishads against the systematic assaults of the missionaries; and finally to reawaken the dormant ethical and patriotic spirit in those youths in whom it had almost disappeared owing to college education. Much of this has been achieved by and through the Theosophical Society, in spite of all its mistakes and imperfections." "Kali Yuga notwithstanding, that alone would be proof that it was not founded at New York and transplanted to India in vain. Finally, if any one among the three hundred millions of India can demonstrate, proof in hand, that Theosophy, the T.S., or even my humble self, have been the means of doing the slightest harm, either to the country or any Hindu, that the Founders have been guilty of teaching pernicious doctrines, or offering bad advice-then and then only, can it be imputed to me as a crime that I have brought forward the ideal of the Masters and founded the Theosophical Society." http://www.tonh.net/theosofie/hpb_cw_online/articles/v12/y1890_015.htm ******* 4. A special paper from A. P. Sinnett and friends: "She resolved during her Mexican wanderings that she [Page 49] would go to India, fully alive already to the necessity of seeking beyond the northern frontiers of that country for the further acquaintanceship of those great teachers of the highest mystic science, with whom the guardian of her visions was associated in her mind. She wrote, therefore, to a certain Englishman, whom she had met in Germany two years before, and whom she knew to be on the same quest as herself, to join her in the West Indies, in order that they might go to the East together. He duly came, but the party was further augmented by the addition of a Hindu whom Mme. Blavatsky met at Copau, in Mexico, and whom she soon ascertained to be what is called a "chela", or pupil of the Masters, or adepts of oriental occult science. The three pilgrims of mysticism went out via the Cape to Ceylon, and thence in a sailing ship to Bombay, where, as I make out the dates, they must have arrived at quite the end of 1852." http://www.theosophical.ca/IncidentsLifeBlavatsky1.htm ******* 5. "IMPORTANT NOTE Yes. I am sorry to say that I had to identify myself during, that shameful exposure of the mediums Holmes with the Spiritualists. I had to save the situation, for I was sent from Paris on purpose to America to prove the phenomena and their reality and-show the fallacy of the Spiritualistic theories of "Spirits." But how could I do it best? I did not want people at large to know that I could produce the same thing at will. I had received ORDERS to the contrary, and yet, I had to keep alive the reality, the genuineness and possibility of such phenomena in the hearts of those who from Materialists had turned Spiritualists and now, owing to the exposure of several mediums fell back again, returned to their skepticism. This is why, selecting a few of the faithful, I went to the Holmeses and helped by M . . . and his power, brought out the face of John King and Katie King in the astral light, produced the phenomena of materialization and-allowed the Spiritualists at large to believe it was done thro' the mediumship of Mrs. Holmes. She was terribly frightened herself, for she knew that this once the apparition was real. Did I do wrong? The world is not prepared yet to understand the philosophy of Occult Sciences-let them assure themselves first of all that there are beings in an invisible world, whether "Spirits" of the dead or Elementals; and that there are hidden powers in man, which are capable of making a God of him on earth. When I am dead and gone people will, perhaps, appreciate my disinterested motives. I have pledged my word to help people on to Truth while living and-will keep my word. Let them abuse and revile me. Let some call me a MEDIUM and a Spiritualist, and others an impostor. The day will come when posterity will learn to know me better. Oh poor, foolish, credulous, wicked world! M . . . brings orders to form a Society - a secret Society like the Rosicrucian Lodge. He promises to help." http://www.tonh.net/theosofie/hpb_cw_online/articles/v1/y1875_006.htm M. Sufilight [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Mon Apr 28 12:37:58 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 57240 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2008 19:37:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2008 19:37:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.243) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2008 19:37:56 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id d11so3767911and.122 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:37:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.210.9 with SMTP id i9mr69808ang.0.1209411472442; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:37:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:37:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:37:52 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.243 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS Elections - Kim Dieu's Comments X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=_mZLBmzCvPI7p2tkUsw52HO7re3ALx3jB2kGRZsAtEYrQWTd_OU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43752 Miss Tran Thi Kim Dieu, Chairman of the European Federation of the TS, in a message sent to members said: "What a pity that such a great soul now errs because of the misfunctioning of the brain!" I sent her two messages asking for her response on the above, and to date I have not heard from her. Why silence? Is she afraid or embarassed of her comments? When a such a highly held leader like Dieu, is not willing to answer, it raises a lot of questions about the credibility in the light of currently available certifications doctors about the physical and mental fitness of Radha Burnier. Hope to hear from her so that we can all share them here. mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Mon Apr 28 12:45:46 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 88044 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2008 19:45:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2008 19:45:44 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wx-out-0506.google.com) (66.249.82.225) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2008 19:45:44 -0000 X-Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id h31so4135618wxd.4 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:45:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.41.4 with SMTP id o4mr76730ano.136.1209411943815; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:45:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:45:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:45:43 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Theosophy Study List" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 66.249.82.225 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS Elections - French Secretary Maxene Ondet's View X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=QaZgjytkewpTkcRrET_5jGexckPgU98aV1LBATjbfYqeE4qitVg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43753 In a message to all TS members in France, Maxene Ondet, French Secretary stated: "In November 2006, she had a serious stroke which left her unable to speak for at least a month and deprived her of a large part of her memory. Her recovery was slow and incomplete, especially as far as short term memory and recall of names are concerned. In conversation, she no longer understands anything but short and simple sentences." Couple of days ago, I wrote to her citing the two doctors' certificates stating that Radha Burnier is mentally and physically fit, that she should, as her duty, inform the French Members about the correct facts, since misleading info should be corrected. I hoped to hear from her so that we all can share her new views. So far I have not received any replies. One wonders about the silence of a high TS official on such an important matter. mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Mon Apr 28 16:18:16 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 5273 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2008 23:18:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Apr 2008 23:18:15 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m11.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.99) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2008 23:18:15 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.ced.312e755e (37165) for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:18:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from webmail-da14 (webmail-da14.webmail.aol.com [205.188.212.209]) by cia-ma04.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMA044-912d48165b2e212; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:18:07 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:18:06 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.199.151.243 In-Reply-To: <229840.33442.qm@web52610.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36240-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.199.151.243 by webmail-da14.sysops.aol.com (205.188.212.209) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:18:06 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA779D401DBF62-66C-1E52@webmail-da14.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.143.99 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar President Election X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=0rv2B911KiHP4tQoa64XdwYF34ImTIlol38TkioXCA-VMjiVEg X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43754 Nothing is wrong with porn.? Some of my best friends are in the business. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: Martin To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 2:53 am Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar President Election Lol, thats actually the same as, don't spread the message of Theosophy in this society, since it is full of selfishness and war??? And what is wrong with porn? To display what is a result of seperateness could only help the pupil find wholeness. To see the same in a rose or vagina, in a churchtower or a penis, its all in the mind and cause of a lot of confusion and prejudice. To confront the 'enemy' with his taboos surely leads to right insight even to the 'enemy'. Celibacy can only be understood when experiencing sexuality only being the attraction of the personality with its own creator and not between 2 different people. Procreation is only there where the people can't work life out themselves and need another human. Of course there are exceptions, Buddha also had a child, but he left it and his wife to work out His life. Adam couldn't find his way in life so he begat Eve, you could also say. What matters most is to understand seperateness, it was the most important teaching of the Buddha. We are one but not the same because one personality can't be another. However when a personality has been worked through it becomes a voice of the Omnipresence. --- Katinka Hesselink wrote: I vividly remember my > dismay when Radha > told Australian members of the TS that the internet > was not a good > place for spreading theosophy - because it was also > a place where a > lot of porn was being spread. __________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Mon Apr 28 19:40:42 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 17745 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2008 02:40:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2008 02:40:40 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.247) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2008 02:40:40 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b21so16752ana.17 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:40:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.93.19 with SMTP id q19mr693856anb.143.1209436840343; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:40:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:40:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:40:40 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.247 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS Intl Elections X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=7nTW7PKO44lHj_Mc4E_cKcHZ1ezbaB1UGT-lXtzEeHbzJ30xcXg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43755 Has anyone in the USA received their ballots for International Elections? Also has anyone seen or received any followup message from the National President, USA in the light of the two doctors' certificates finding Radha Burnier mentally and physically fit. The certificates were sent to all Section Secretaries. I thought members will hear something from the National President because the reason for nominating Algeo was based on the health condition of Radha Burnier. mkr *"There Is No Religion Higher Than Truth"* [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From MarieMAJ41@aol.com Mon Apr 28 21:00:47 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: MarieMAJ41@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 86453 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2008 04:00:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2008 04:00:45 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d03.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.35) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2008 04:00:45 -0000 X-Received: from MarieMAJ41@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c3b.32febc22 (34898) for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 00:00:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from webmail-da09 (webmail-da09.webmail.aol.com [205.188.212.204]) by cia-da01.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA017-885248169d63385; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 00:00:35 -0400 References: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 00:00:35 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 24.7.215.159 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36240-STANDARD X-Received: from 24.7.215.159 by webmail-da09.sysops.aol.com (205.188.212.204) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 29 Apr 2008 00:00:35 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA77C4B607EE83-10D8-1F29@webmail-da09.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.157.35 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MarieMAJ41@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Intl Elections X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=90655958; y=Y4pqQgpaR2zO3JpTdFqKgl1mrrlQwp3pdQZ1TBgYs6KuU0XwaHs X-Yahoo-Profile: olgamarie41 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43756 Hello MKR and friends, Today I received my international ballot in the mail. You will not hear from the National Secretary of the of the TS in America because his job depends on his following the pack. His job would be in jeopardy. Also, you probably will not hear from Dr. Algeo or anyone else who nominated him because they cannot appear to be against him, or .....well you know the rest. Many of the GS are members of his new masonic order, and also ES members. All inside members, who have to stick together. Remember, politics rules the TS, not theosophy. Marie -----Original Message----- From: MKR To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; theos-L@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 9:40 pm Subject: Theos-World TS Intl Elections Has anyone in the USA received their ballots for International Elections? Also has anyone seen or received any followup message from the National President, USA in the light of the two doctors' certificates finding Radha Burnier mentally and physically fit. The certificates were sent to all Section Secretaries. I thought members will hear something from the National President because the reason for nominating Algeo was based on the health condition of Radha Burnier. mkr *"There Is No Religion Higher Than Truth"* [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From anton_rozman@yahoo.com Mon Apr 28 23:31:53 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: anton_rozman@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 7080 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2008 06:31:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2008 06:31:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n29a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.31) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2008 06:31:50 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n29.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Apr 2008 06:31:47 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Apr 2008 06:31:47 -0000 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 06:31:47 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.31 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 209.73.164.200 From: "Anton Rozman" Subject: Re: New Theosophy Forum - Blog - Limitations X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=192242904; y=GPQVFSkULpSRWKL5VeksVisrH2wqfDlocNkuVhnvtkzdwT2UfaQN X-Yahoo-Profile: anton_rozman X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43757 To compare the limitations of the new blog with those of these mail- lists one has to check if posts and comments of blog's subscribers=20 are moderated. Namely, also theos_talk and theos_l have a limitation=20 in this sense that posting is limited to members only.=20=20 This limitation is quite indispensable as otherwise we would have=20 countless number of posts advertising certain pills and certain organ=20 enlargement methods and so on.=20 For instance, I had a phpBB forum on my site and had to remove it=20 because there were about 10 false registrations per day as certain=20 people wanted to collect e-mail addresses for their advertising=20 purposes and to directly advertise their offer. Now I have a Yahoo!=20 group and a special contact form for those who want to join to=20 prevent direct false registrations. There are anyway about 20 spam=20 messages through that form per day but do not affect the mail list. Anton --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, MKR wrote: > > I visited the new Forum/Blog and there is some useful information=20 in it. >=20 > However, on a closer reading, I found out the following: >=20 > 1. It is a moderated (censored) forum. >=20 > 2. Chris is too close to the TS in America administration. Hence=20 there are > limits to his independence when moderation issues come up. >=20 > 3. Moderated forums generally are not popular in the Internet. You=20 may have > good interest from those who toe the official line. It should be=20 recalled, > some years ago, there was a maillist ts-l, owned and moderated by=20 TSA which > fell on its face. >=20 > 4. Even in unmoderated forums such as theos-talk and theos-l, they=20 tend to > be self-moderating without the interference of the owner. Any=20 unreasonable > message posted do bring strong response from other readers and that > itself makes it recalliberating. It is extremely rare that the=20 owner had to > intervene. In such cases, the poster is banned from posting. >=20 > So when you read the msgs in the blog, keep the above in view. >=20 > In view of the above reasons, you will find very valuable=20 information on > theos-talk and theos-l which you will not find anywhere else. >=20 > mkr >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > From anton_rozman@yahoo.com Tue Apr 29 01:23:08 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: anton_rozman@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 20449 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2008 08:23:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2008 08:23:05 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n18a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.47) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2008 08:23:05 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n18.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Apr 2008 08:23:05 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Apr 2008 08:23:05 -0000 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:23:04 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.47 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 209.73.164.201 From: "Anton Rozman" Subject: Re: TS Elections -- Emperor(s) has no Cloths X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=192242904; y=LiASsIdYsxNyn5mW-9o67knsjcGBVTU_HrmOFqpOyAPe_cc6PLh9 X-Yahoo-Profile: anton_rozman X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43758 Just want to share this quotation: But civilization can only revive when there shall come into being in=20 a number of individuals a new tone of mind independent of the one=20 prevalent among the crowd and in opposition to it, a tone of mind=20 which will gradually win influence over the collective one, and in=20 the end determine its character. It is only an ethical movement which=20 can rescue us from the slough of barbarism, and the ethical comes=20 into existence only in individuals ... That is the condition in which=20 we are now, and that is why it is the duty of individuals to rise to=20 a higher conception of their capabilities and undertake again the=20 function which only the individual can perform, that of producing new=20 spiritual ideas. If this does not come about in a multitude of cases=20 nothing can save us. - Albert Schweitzer. --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, MKR wrote: > > In another theosophical forum, a theosophist commented: >=20 > "As usual, the problem is caused by those who, in their over- zealousness get > things mixed up, because now several members with no official > responsibilities feel they have the right to write their opinions,=20 forward > private letters, etc. Of course they have, but that shows me that=20 we are, > generally speaking, not mature enough, and that the laws of the=20 world still > rule on us." >=20 > The key issue in the election is Radha Burnier's health. >=20 > The situation we have is many in leadership position have provided > inaccurate/misleading information regarding the mental and physical=20 health > of Radha Burnier and tried to influence the members, and have not=20 provided > the members the details of the two certificates from doctors who=20 have > declared her mentally and physically fit. >=20 > This is doing injustice by those who are supposed to exemplify how > theosophists value truth and justice. Like the child who talked=20 about the > king having no cloths, it does not require any high degrees or=20 years of > learning or years of daily meditation or other tantrik practices or=20 beliefs > etc or other credentials to see this and talk about. Also some of=20 the > members have been around theosophy longer than many in the=20 leadership > positions. >=20 > mkr >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > From christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com Tue Apr 29 02:33:00 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 47786 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2008 09:32:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2008 09:32:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n1.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com) (69.147.103.128) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2008 09:32:57 -0000 X-Received: from [68.142.237.88] by n1.bullet.mail.re1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Apr 2008 09:32:57 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t4.bullet.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Apr 2008 09:32:57 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.67.199] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Apr 2008 09:32:57 -0000 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:32:56 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.103.128 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 209.73.164.226 From: "christinaleestemaker" Subject: Re: TS Elections - Kim Dieu's Comments X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162317756; y=ez889k-bb7HPlr8nhCH2pu_lcNyoshwh7fpRHBCDMdV4SisnxlmydeimI6nvL3E X-Yahoo-Profile: christinaleestemaker X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43759 One time an old lady told me, that it is occult, why theosophists does not give answers. Friendly regards Christina --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, MKR wrote: > > Miss Tran Thi Kim Dieu, Chairman of the European Federation of the=20 TS, in a > message sent to members said: >=20 > "What a pity that such a great soul now errs because of the=20 misfunctioning > of the brain!" >=20 > I sent her two messages asking for her response on the above, and=20 to date I > have not heard from her. >=20 > Why silence? Is she afraid or embarassed of her comments? >=20 > When a such a highly held leader like Dieu, is not willing to=20 answer, it > raises a lot of questions about the credibility in the light of=20 currently > available certifications doctors about the physical and mental=20 fitness of > Radha Burnier. >=20 > Hope to hear from her so that we can all share them here. >=20 > mkr >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Apr 29 02:58:02 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 64279 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2008 09:57:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2008 09:57:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.249) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2008 09:57:59 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c24so1434325ana.98 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 02:57:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.38.3 with SMTP id l3mr1146247anl.134.1209463079014; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 02:57:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 02:57:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 04:57:58 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.249 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Elections - Kim Dieu's Comments X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=ATMs6BGhvhnSEGnNlT25F89csydFB1GYhxVzIJYVC-EQka1clYY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43760 That is interesting. All of us are interested in the occult reasons, and may be it is manufactured. mkr On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 4:32 AM, christinaleestemaker < christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com> wrote: > One time an old lady told me, > that it is occult, > why theosophists > does not give answers. > > Friendly regards Christina > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com , MKR > wrote: > > > > Miss Tran Thi Kim Dieu, Chairman of the European Federation of the > TS, in a > > message sent to members said: > > > > "What a pity that such a great soul now errs because of the > misfunctioning > > of the brain!" > > > > I sent her two messages asking for her response on the above, and > to date I > > have not heard from her. > > > > Why silence? Is she afraid or embarassed of her comments? > > > > When a such a highly held leader like Dieu, is not willing to > answer, it > > raises a lot of questions about the credibility in the light of > currently > > available certifications doctors about the physical and mental > fitness of > > Radha Burnier. > > > > Hope to hear from her so that we can all share them here. > > > > mkr > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Mvandertak@yahoo.com Tue Apr 29 03:28:54 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mvandertak@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 36754 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2008 10:28:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2008 10:28:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52602.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.205) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2008 10:28:51 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 8836 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Apr 2008 10:28:51 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: WqnQHDcVM1nFrkYl.VQe4Qf.3OYTt3cRUyVu5e155tMp_DMW5NnhILla_yvpsaRkicVTPxWjZvNYlXtm8E9DBFvlan_ha9lu0hUpyhUDjslrmTSseu09mfYyor87cC_GxDqW.XHABXKLk13YX59hn_WtEKFG9g-- X-Received: from [82.217.39.103] by web52602.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 03:28:51 PDT Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 03:28:51 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <482179.8662.qm@web52602.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.205 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Martin Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Elections - Kim Dieu's Comments X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=38276385; y=jS__oZhsCnp4IfZ3kcAEO6NSdAUBGf5vOL8IwkTuYcB6PG1_RA X-Yahoo-Profile: mvandertak X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43761 It seems common to TS leaders to ignore genuine questions. It also happens with the leader of the TS Pasadena. I was written: 'I will not block your emails but do not know how often or when or if I will get to reading them. "Words are dodgey things!" This will be my last email.' So I was cut out of comunion..erhmm comunication, for even my letters are not answered... On itself this is not a bad thing, concerning me, but if this is a common thing to become I bet the TS in general has no future... --- MKR wrote: > That is interesting. > > All of us are interested in the occult reasons, and > may be it is > manufactured. > > mkr > > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 4:32 AM, > christinaleestemaker < > christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > One time an old lady told me, > > that it is occult, > > why theosophists > > does not give answers. > > > > Friendly regards Christina > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > , MKR > > wrote: > > > > > > Miss Tran Thi Kim Dieu, Chairman of the European > Federation of the > > TS, in a > > > message sent to members said: > > > > > > "What a pity that such a great soul now errs > because of the > > misfunctioning > > > of the brain!" > > > > > > I sent her two messages asking for her response > on the above, and > > to date I > > > have not heard from her. > > > > > > Why silence? Is she afraid or embarassed of her > comments? > > > > > > When a such a highly held leader like Dieu, is > not willing to > > answer, it > > > raises a lot of questions about the credibility > in the light of > > currently > > > available certifications doctors about the > physical and mental > > fitness of > > > Radha Burnier. > > > > > > Hope to hear from her so that we can all share > them here. > > > > > > mkr > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Apr 29 03:28:57 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 25913 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2008 10:28:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2008 10:28:56 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.249) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2008 10:28:56 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c35so43316anc.68 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 03:28:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.33.4 with SMTP id g4mr1174628ang.111.1209464935718; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 03:28:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 03:28:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 05:28:55 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8CA77C4B607EE83-10D8-1F29@webmail-da09.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8CA77C4B607EE83-10D8-1F29@webmail-da09.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.249 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Intl Elections X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=QsmyHe2oyXhDGOoToCKKoZmOQAuV4WP23nBEFlPhK9wcSnEarSU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43762 Marie: Thanks for your insightful comments. When I said Secretary, I meant the President of TS in America. In other countries, the head of TS is called General Secretary. It was the President of TSA, in her letter to members cited Radha Burnier's health as the reason to vote for Algeo. In the light of two doctors' certifications declaring Radha mentally and physicially fit, truth and justice requires the members told of it. Silence is meant to suppress this critical information. It is sad to see any one trying to influence an election by misleading members. Politicians do it all the time. But I cannot imagine this happening in TS. It goes against the motto of TS, you see it around the emblem/logo -- There is No Religion Higher Than Truth. I am glad we have Internet and the maillists. But for them, the members would have been convinced that Radha is very sick and the election over. Now I hope Internet helps to keep at least some of the members informed of the Truth. mkr On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 11:00 PM, wrote: > > Hello MKR and friends, > > Today I received my international ballot in the mail. > > You will not hear from the National Secretary of the of the TS in America > because his job depends on his following the pack. His job would be in > jeopardy. Also, you probably will not hear from Dr. Algeo or anyone else who > nominated him because they cannot appear to be against him, or .....well you > know the rest. Many of the GS are members of his new masonic order, and also > ES members. All inside members, who have to stick together. Remember, > politics rules the TS, not theosophy. > > Marie > > > -----Original Message----- > From: MKR > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ; > theos-L@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 9:40 pm > Subject: Theos-World TS Intl Elections > > Has anyone in the USA received their ballots for International Elections? > > Also has anyone seen or received any followup message from the National > President, USA in the light of the two doctors' certificates finding Radha > Burnier mentally and physically fit. The certificates were sent to all > Section Secretaries. > > I thought members will hear something from the National President because > the reason for nominating Algeo was based on the health condition of Radha > Burnier. > > mkr > > *"There Is No Religion Higher Than Truth"* > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Apr 29 03:31:53 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 3764 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2008 10:31:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2008 10:31:52 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.247) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2008 10:31:52 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c38so642ana.3 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 03:31:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.190.14 with SMTP id n14mr1203098anf.98.1209465111444; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 03:31:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 03:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 05:31:51 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <482179.8662.qm@web52602.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <482179.8662.qm@web52602.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.247 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Elections - Kim Dieu's Comments X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=nxp-P9Z1NjsmVjObvOHjd9XXutcGXC0cXnKtIHWz7lWgjMakUNE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43763 It is very sad to see what is happening. But for Internet, all of us would be in total darkness which only helps bureaucrats. mkr On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 5:28 AM, Martin wrote: > It seems common to TS leaders to ignore genuine > questions. It also happens with the leader of the TS > Pasadena. > I was written: > > 'I will not block your emails but do not know how > often or when or if I will get to reading them. > "Words are dodgey things!" This will be my last > email.' > > So I was cut out of comunion..erhmm comunication, for > even my letters are not answered... > > On itself this is not a bad thing, concerning me, but > if this is a common thing to become I bet the TS in > general has no future... > > > --- MKR > wrote: > > > That is interesting. > > > > All of us are interested in the occult reasons, and > > may be it is > > manufactured. > > > > mkr > > > > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 4:32 AM, > > christinaleestemaker < > > christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com > > wrote: > > > > > One time an old lady told me, > > > that it is occult, > > > why theosophists > > > does not give answers. > > > > > > Friendly regards Christina > > > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > > , MKR > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Miss Tran Thi Kim Dieu, Chairman of the European > > Federation of the > > > TS, in a > > > > message sent to members said: > > > > > > > > "What a pity that such a great soul now errs > > because of the > > > misfunctioning > > > > of the brain!" > > > > > > > > I sent her two messages asking for her response > > on the above, and > > > to date I > > > > have not heard from her. > > > > > > > > Why silence? Is she afraid or embarassed of her > > comments? > > > > > > > > When a such a highly held leader like Dieu, is > > not willing to > > > answer, it > > > > raises a lot of questions about the credibility > > in the light of > > > currently > > > > available certifications doctors about the > > physical and mental > > > fitness of > > > > Radha Burnier. > > > > > > > > Hope to hear from her so that we can all share > > them here. > > > > > > > > mkr > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Apr 29 03:36:50 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 34100 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2008 10:36:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2008 10:36:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.251) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2008 10:36:50 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id d30so8788and.94 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 03:36:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.214.3 with SMTP id m3mr1171724ang.55.1209465409640; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 03:36:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 03:36:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 05:36:49 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.251 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Elections -- Emperor(s) has no Cloths X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=E29V4KKbiIOEqkay2Um04JltQYuLCtgIP5sC8V3_GATQJwIwYQU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43764 "It is only an ethical movement which can rescue us from the slough of barbarism, and the ethical comes into existence only in individuals" When end justifies the means, that is beginning of a slippery slope. For an organization which is supposed to have high moral and ethical standards, when you see leaders trying to suppress truth, I hope it is not fatal. mkr On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 3:23 AM, Anton Rozman wrote: > Just want to share this quotation: > > But civilization can only revive when there shall come into being in > a number of individuals a new tone of mind independent of the one > prevalent among the crowd and in opposition to it, a tone of mind > which will gradually win influence over the collective one, and in > the end determine its character. It is only an ethical movement which > can rescue us from the slough of barbarism, and the ethical comes > into existence only in individuals ... That is the condition in which > we are now, and that is why it is the duty of individuals to rise to > a higher conception of their capabilities and undertake again the > function which only the individual can perform, that of producing new > spiritual ideas. If this does not come about in a multitude of cases > nothing can save us. - Albert Schweitzer. > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com , MKR > wrote: > > > > In another theosophical forum, a theosophist commented: > > > > "As usual, the problem is caused by those who, in their over- > zealousness get > > things mixed up, because now several members with no official > > responsibilities feel they have the right to write their opinions, > forward > > private letters, etc. Of course they have, but that shows me that > we are, > > generally speaking, not mature enough, and that the laws of the > world still > > rule on us." > > > > The key issue in the election is Radha Burnier's health. > > > > The situation we have is many in leadership position have provided > > inaccurate/misleading information regarding the mental and physical > health > > of Radha Burnier and tried to influence the members, and have not > provided > > the members the details of the two certificates from doctors who > have > > declared her mentally and physically fit. > > > > This is doing injustice by those who are supposed to exemplify how > > theosophists value truth and justice. Like the child who talked > about the > > king having no cloths, it does not require any high degrees or > years of > > learning or years of daily meditation or other tantrik practices or > beliefs > > etc or other credentials to see this and talk about. Also some of > the > > members have been around theosophy longer than many in the > leadership > > positions. > > > > mkr > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Apr 29 03:55:02 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 14607 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2008 10:55:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2008 10:55:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.246) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2008 10:55:01 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id d26so25690and.93 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 03:55:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.136.15 with SMTP id j15mr1236981and.71.1209466501247; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 03:55:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 03:55:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 05:55:01 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.246 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: New Theosophy Forum - Blog - Limitations X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=B1jcymwEWZsBPc9bVAUwn0f-v2wv6ypr3EI8ocV7tXOhWgbeeUc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43765 Spam has been a real problem. Moderation about admission of new subscribers is necessary to avoid spammers. It is the moderation of the message postings that I was commenting on. mkr On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 1:31 AM, Anton Rozman wrote: > To compare the limitations of the new blog with those of these mail- > lists one has to check if posts and comments of blog's subscribers > are moderated. Namely, also theos_talk and theos_l have a limitation > in this sense that posting is limited to members only. > > This limitation is quite indispensable as otherwise we would have > countless number of posts advertising certain pills and certain organ > enlargement methods and so on. > > For instance, I had a phpBB forum on my site and had to remove it > because there were about 10 false registrations per day as certain > people wanted to collect e-mail addresses for their advertising > purposes and to directly advertise their offer. Now I have a Yahoo! > group and a special contact form for those who want to join to > prevent direct false registrations. There are anyway about 20 spam > messages through that form per day but do not affect the mail list. > > Anton > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com , MKR > wrote: > > > > I visited the new Forum/Blog and there is some useful information > in it. > > > > However, on a closer reading, I found out the following: > > > > 1. It is a moderated (censored) forum. > > > > 2. Chris is too close to the TS in America administration. Hence > there are > > limits to his independence when moderation issues come up. > > > > 3. Moderated forums generally are not popular in the Internet. You > may have > > good interest from those who toe the official line. It should be > recalled, > > some years ago, there was a maillist ts-l, owned and moderated by > TSA which > > fell on its face. > > > > 4. Even in unmoderated forums such as theos-talk and theos-l, they > tend to > > be self-moderating without the interference of the owner. Any > unreasonable > > message posted do bring strong response from other readers and that > > itself makes it recalliberating. It is extremely rare that the > owner had to > > intervene. In such cases, the poster is banned from posting. > > > > So when you read the msgs in the blog, keep the above in view. > > > > In view of the above reasons, you will find very valuable > information on > > theos-talk and theos-l which you will not find anywhere else. > > > > mkr > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Apr 29 05:13:51 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 96240 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2008 12:13:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2008 12:13:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.250) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2008 12:13:50 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c31so41682anc.55 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 05:13:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.125.12 with SMTP id x12mr1368701anc.14.1209471229370; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 05:13:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 05:13:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 07:13:49 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.250 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS Elections - Radha Burnier's Health X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=HwUc8t5_zsUGcWgW0FMj47-b8Om1QJf4V3DVKIUdxwMiWoP_8oM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43766 In a recent message, there is a very significant information, many missed. Never before, as far as I know, the Election Committe at Adyar has instructed any section in any election. On April 19, the committee instructed the French General Secretary (President) to "take immediate action to counteract the impression created in the letter from Maxence Ondet dated 29 March 2008." The Election Committee should be commended for its action. I believe many section Secretaries (President) have provided sent inaccurate information to its members about the health of Radha Burnier. Since the actions taken by the Secretaries will unduly tilt the election based on inaccurate info, I think the Election Committee should similarly instruct them to correct/counteract the wrong impression they tried to convey to its members. In political circles, it is called attempt to steal the election. Has anyone seen any developments in the matter. Since it is a very sensitive matter, if anyone wants to keep their confidentiality (because of potential repercussion from leadership), they can e-mail me off-list. Let us share the info with everyone for the good of Truth and Justice. Thanks mkr "There is No Religion Higher Than Truth" In Kali Yuga, any means justify the end! See full message below: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/43748 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com Tue Apr 29 05:52:30 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 91665 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2008 12:52:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2008 12:52:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n22a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.51) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2008 12:52:27 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n22.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Apr 2008 12:52:27 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Apr 2008 12:52:27 -0000 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 12:52:27 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.51 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 209.73.164.200 From: "christinaleestemaker" Subject: Theos-World Re: TS Elections - Kim Dieu's Comments X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162317756; y=FXQqd6dMhcGcLglBLciuKrZDrq6S56VXf4YJTuPALMubvvO8cjR7LfX1DOj2DKc X-Yahoo-Profile: christinaleestemaker X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43767 I think, because one have not asked for the question so have not a reason to answer Gr Christina -- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, MKR wrote: > > That is interesting. >=20 > All of us are interested in the occult reasons, and may be it is > manufactured. >=20 > mkr >=20 > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 4:32 AM, christinaleestemaker < > christinaleestemaker@...> wrote: >=20 > > One time an old lady told me, > > that it is occult, > > why theosophists > > does not give answers. > > > > Friendly regards Christina > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ,=20 MKR > > wrote: > > > > > > Miss Tran Thi Kim Dieu, Chairman of the European Federation of=20 the > > TS, in a > > > message sent to members said: > > > > > > "What a pity that such a great soul now errs because of the > > misfunctioning > > > of the brain!" > > > > > > I sent her two messages asking for her response on the above,=20 and > > to date I > > > have not heard from her. > > > > > > Why silence? Is she afraid or embarassed of her comments? > > > > > > When a such a highly held leader like Dieu, is not willing to > > answer, it > > > raises a lot of questions about the credibility in the light of > > currently > > > available certifications doctors about the physical and mental > > fitness of > > > Radha Burnier. > > > > > > Hope to hear from her so that we can all share them here. > > > > > > mkr > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > >=20=20 > > >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > From dzyan@online.de Tue Apr 29 06:45:09 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: dzyan@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 84042 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2008 13:43:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2008 13:43:14 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.188) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2008 13:43:13 -0000 X-Received: from captainp6d3981 (brln-4db92117.pool.einsundeins.de [77.185.33.23]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu7) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0ML2xA-1Jqq6y0IDk-0005lr; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:43:12 +0200 Message-ID: <003e01c8a9ff$21099590$152ca8c0@captainp6d3981> To: References: Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:43:50 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/mVUiyluBWpNLdynG8ZHz8Oknj2TnsQvRixPk fGAkIL6Z3y9SSSOgEApMfE/26Smrimt7oP/2XhjXs8W8RN2Oln j8WeDAmOoLe+UYPVyaoR389sEKP++cm X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.188 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Elections - Kim Dieu's Comments X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=302625737; y=mCtyArdbch1ZJm8IBQNOzOf2_gg_UJNb3IL8g8QbOaHyhRCtlZVri8R9Mw X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43768 No answer! It's occult! A clever trick and the triumph of cant! The Vatican gives also no answers, because it's the mystery of the Holy Ghost! And the Vatican's bastard children, the horrible talmudic-jesuitical socialistic and communistic movements also give no answers to the grass roots. The red block warden just says: The party is always right!! I am just reading a book from a SJ expert. I was shocking to see that the USA are - according to the author - are the most mighty stronghold of the SJ. Mmmmh. Makes sense, if looking to the US free churches and their infantile world view - from the European point of view. We ged rid of this most foolish and aggressive Christian sects, when they left for the new land. Now they came back with their war machine. Whereever US troops land (Germany, Vietnam, Kosovo, Iraq etc.) they fly in agents from this sects and "churches" to missionize the oppressed nation. And even more bad, unnoticed by the self-satisfied pseudo-leaders Algeo, Burnier etc., we, the probably most stupid generation ever lived on Earth, face the beginning of the new religion. The new religion has it's hard and fast dogmas, it's witnesses, it's funds, it's temples, it's reliques, it's priests, its's memorial days, it's ban of inquiry. The empire in embryo has raised fast and the blockheads in the theosophical Vaticans does not know it, do they? Not a good outlook in teh 21th century for theosophy in particular and the West in general. A lemming situation and no handbook at hand to look how to stop the lemmings. They feel proud and lucky in running to the abyss. They want not to be disturbed by their positive thinking, that would be of course unbrotherly. Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: christinaleestemaker To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 2:52 PM Subject: Theos-World Re: TS Elections - Kim Dieu's Comments I think, because one have not asked for the question so have not a reason to answer Gr Christina -- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, MKR wrote: > > That is interesting. > > All of us are interested in the occult reasons, and may be it is > manufactured. > > mkr > > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 4:32 AM, christinaleestemaker < > christinaleestemaker@...> wrote: > > > One time an old lady told me, > > that it is occult, > > why theosophists > > does not give answers. > > > > Friendly regards Christina > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com , MKR > > wrote: > > > > > > Miss Tran Thi Kim Dieu, Chairman of the European Federation of the > > TS, in a > > > message sent to members said: > > > > > > "What a pity that such a great soul now errs because of the > > misfunctioning > > > of the brain!" > > > > > > I sent her two messages asking for her response on the above, and > > to date I > > > have not heard from her. > > > > > > Why silence? Is she afraid or embarassed of her comments? > > > > > > When a such a highly held leader like Dieu, is not willing to > > answer, it > > > raises a lot of questions about the credibility in the light of > > currently > > > available certifications doctors about the physical and mental > > fitness of > > > Radha Burnier. > > > > > > Hope to hear from her so that we can all share them here. > > > > > > mkr > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dzyan@online.de Tue Apr 29 07:13:31 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: dzyan@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 18842 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2008 14:13:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2008 14:13:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.183) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2008 14:13:28 -0000 X-Received: from captainp6d3981 (brln-4db92117.pool.einsundeins.de [77.185.33.23]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu1) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MKwpI-1JqqaC0JZD-0007xQ; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:13:24 +0200 Message-ID: <006d01c8aa03$59237960$152ca8c0@captainp6d3981> To: References: <482179.8662.qm@web52602.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:54:43 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+64lUdplWxIkUle0B/ikFZ9IeAiHJEPxH8fG2 NImRqo+S9UbuNZleqYpoD7903Ypt9RFUKsQkuZ+JsGdTu+dFVF TDDasjtxUU6ChmrmQPWmr7BV9p0YeJI X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.183 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Elections - Kim Dieu's Comments X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=302625737; y=ztd9b9Moio2dQruzPNQdOGbV80MKiMEx8dHs5zyzj_2AxwwtUslAoijQ9g X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43769 Dear Martin, your example proofs that the TS Pasadena is as much away from HPB and the original TS asa the TS Adyar. Both Adyar and Pasadena with their narrowminded and self-satisfied, luke-warm pensionist officials have practically nothing to do with HPB. They are dead as a mouse. Either a grass-root revolution takes place for a spiritual regeneration or the TM will follow the astral tracks of Christianity and become a dead-letter organization. That outlook would be a failure and missing an opportunity for a brighter towmorrow. It's real Leaders we need. Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: Martin To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 12:28 PM Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Elections - Kim Dieu's Comments It seems common to TS leaders to ignore genuine questions. It also happens with the leader of the TS Pasadena. I was written: 'I will not block your emails but do not know how often or when or if I will get to reading them. "Words are dodgey things!" This will be my last email.' So I was cut out of comunion..erhmm comunication, for even my letters are not answered... On itself this is not a bad thing, concerning me, but if this is a common thing to become I bet the TS in general has no future... --- MKR wrote: > That is interesting. > > All of us are interested in the occult reasons, and > may be it is > manufactured. > > mkr > > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 4:32 AM, > christinaleestemaker < > christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > One time an old lady told me, > > that it is occult, > > why theosophists > > does not give answers. > > > > Friendly regards Christina > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > , MKR > > wrote: > > > > > > Miss Tran Thi Kim Dieu, Chairman of the European > Federation of the > > TS, in a > > > message sent to members said: > > > > > > "What a pity that such a great soul now errs > because of the > > misfunctioning > > > of the brain!" > > > > > > I sent her two messages asking for her response > on the above, and > > to date I > > > have not heard from her. > > > > > > Why silence? Is she afraid or embarassed of her > comments? > > > > > > When a such a highly held leader like Dieu, is > not willing to > > answer, it > > > raises a lot of questions about the credibility > in the light of > > currently > > > available certifications doctors about the > physical and mental > > fitness of > > > Radha Burnier. > > > > > > Hope to hear from her so that we can all share > them here. > > > > > > mkr > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > __________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Apr 29 07:30:15 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 88342 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2008 14:30:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2008 14:30:12 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wr-out-0506.google.com) (64.233.184.226) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2008 14:30:12 -0000 X-Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 37so29036wra.17 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 07:30:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.33.13 with SMTP id g13mr1623689ang.96.1209479411592; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 07:30:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 07:30:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:30:11 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: X-Originating-IP: 64.233.184.226 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Elections - Kim Dieu's Comments X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=SouVuNTkx4pjDZqhMVWp6jKa9OFaoTrbKzDse4jSa2cjNyrqCm0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43770 That is how lawyers work. If you do not ask the right question, they would not answer. They do not want to help you. mkr On 4/29/08, christinaleestemaker wrote: > > I think, because one have not asked for the question > so have not a reason to answer > > Gr Christina > > -- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com , MKR > wrote: > > > > That is interesting. > > > > All of us are interested in the occult reasons, and may be it is > > manufactured. > > > > mkr > > > > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 4:32 AM, christinaleestemaker < > > christinaleestemaker@...> wrote: > > > > > One time an old lady told me, > > > that it is occult, > > > why theosophists > > > does not give answers. > > > > > > Friendly regards Christina > > > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com>, > MKR > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Miss Tran Thi Kim Dieu, Chairman of the European Federation of > the > > > TS, in a > > > > message sent to members said: > > > > > > > > "What a pity that such a great soul now errs because of the > > > misfunctioning > > > > of the brain!" > > > > > > > > I sent her two messages asking for her response on the above, > and > > > to date I > > > > have not heard from her. > > > > > > > > Why silence? Is she afraid or embarassed of her comments? > > > > > > > > When a such a highly held leader like Dieu, is not willing to > > > answer, it > > > > raises a lot of questions about the credibility in the light of > > > currently > > > > available certifications doctors about the physical and mental > > > fitness of > > > > Radha Burnier. > > > > > > > > Hope to hear from her so that we can all share them here. > > > > > > > > mkr > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From anton_rozman@yahoo.com Tue Apr 29 08:10:44 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: anton_rozman@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 43370 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2008 15:10:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2008 15:10:42 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n50a.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.144) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2008 15:10:42 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n50.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Apr 2008 15:10:42 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Apr 2008 15:10:41 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Apr 2008 15:10:41 -0000 Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:10:40 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.168.144 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 209.73.164.201 From: "Anton Rozman" Subject: Theos-World Re: New Theosophy Forum - Blog - Limitations X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=192242904; y=g-Nb5huzsrH7bha7C1tMQuEP7KB_MdYhE3dNEa9Q1FAu0Di5ezzz X-Yahoo-Profile: anton_rozman X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43771 Yes, there is a following statement on the blog regarding the=20 moderation: http://theosophicalsociety.wordpress.com/about/ Anton --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, MKR wrote: > > Spam has been a real problem. Moderation about admission of new=20 subscribers > is necessary to avoid spammers. It is the moderation of the message=20 postings > that I was commenting on. >=20 > mkr >=20 > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 1:31 AM, Anton Rozman > wrote: >=20 > > To compare the limitations of the new blog with those of these=20 mail- > > lists one has to check if posts and comments of blog's subscribers > > are moderated. Namely, also theos_talk and theos_l have a=20 limitation > > in this sense that posting is limited to members only. > > > > This limitation is quite indispensable as otherwise we would have > > countless number of posts advertising certain pills and certain=20 organ > > enlargement methods and so on. > > > > For instance, I had a phpBB forum on my site and had to remove it > > because there were about 10 false registrations per day as certain > > people wanted to collect e-mail addresses for their advertising > > purposes and to directly advertise their offer. Now I have a=20 Yahoo! > > group and a special contact form for those who want to join to > > prevent direct false registrations. There are anyway about 20 spam > > messages through that form per day but do not affect the mail=20 list. > > > > Anton > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ,=20 MKR > > wrote: > > > > > > I visited the new Forum/Blog and there is some useful=20 information > > in it. > > > > > > However, on a closer reading, I found out the following: > > > > > > 1. It is a moderated (censored) forum. > > > > > > 2. Chris is too close to the TS in America administration. Hence > > there are > > > limits to his independence when moderation issues come up. > > > > > > 3. Moderated forums generally are not popular in the Internet.=20 You > > may have > > > good interest from those who toe the official line. It should be > > recalled, > > > some years ago, there was a maillist ts-l, owned and moderated=20 by > > TSA which > > > fell on its face. > > > > > > 4. Even in unmoderated forums such as theos-talk and theos-l,=20 they > > tend to > > > be self-moderating without the interference of the owner. Any > > unreasonable > > > message posted do bring strong response from other readers and=20 that > > > itself makes it recalliberating. It is extremely rare that the > > owner had to > > > intervene. In such cases, the poster is banned from posting. > > > > > > So when you read the msgs in the blog, keep the above in view. > > > > > > In view of the above reasons, you will find very valuable > > information on > > > theos-talk and theos-l which you will not find anywhere else. > > > > > > mkr > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > >=20=20 > > >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Apr 29 08:39:01 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 33451 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2008 15:38:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2008 15:38:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.249) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2008 15:38:58 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c5so8820anc.117 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:38:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.140.15 with SMTP id n15mr1755434and.94.1209483537309; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:38:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:38:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:38:57 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.249 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: New Theosophy Forum - Blog - Limitations X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=EFy_pq2gxTs4Wqk92MGn6tYt7NuQhXS22Rwj9oo0IxX-ldQgbtQ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43772 I saw that. When the first maillist theos-l@vnet.net was setup, I heard that an attempt was made to control (moderate/censor) it and it failed; the owner refused to comply. You may also notice that I have never seen Chris post a single message in any of the maillists in all past years. I do not blame him. Nor anyone officially active with the organization either, this includes all past officials as well. What does it say? An intelligent reader can draw his/her own conclusions. We Should be thankful for atleast we have forums where we can speak freely. mkr On 4/29/08, Anton Rozman wrote: > > Yes, there is a following statement on the blog regarding the > moderation: > > http://theosophicalsociety.wordpress.com/about/ > > Anton > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com , MKR > wrote: > > > > Spam has been a real problem. Moderation about admission of new > subscribers > > is necessary to avoid spammers. It is the moderation of the message > postings > > that I was commenting on. > > > > mkr > > > > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 1:31 AM, Anton Rozman > > wrote: > > > > > To compare the limitations of the new blog with those of these > mail- > > > lists one has to check if posts and comments of blog's subscribers > > > are moderated. Namely, also theos_talk and theos_l have a > limitation > > > in this sense that posting is limited to members only. > > > > > > This limitation is quite indispensable as otherwise we would have > > > countless number of posts advertising certain pills and certain > organ > > > enlargement methods and so on. > > > > > > For instance, I had a phpBB forum on my site and had to remove it > > > because there were about 10 false registrations per day as certain > > > people wanted to collect e-mail addresses for their advertising > > > purposes and to directly advertise their offer. Now I have a > Yahoo! > > > group and a special contact form for those who want to join to > > > prevent direct false registrations. There are anyway about 20 spam > > > messages through that form per day but do not affect the mail > list. > > > > > > Anton > > > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com>, > MKR > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I visited the new Forum/Blog and there is some useful > information > > > in it. > > > > > > > > However, on a closer reading, I found out the following: > > > > > > > > 1. It is a moderated (censored) forum. > > > > > > > > 2. Chris is too close to the TS in America administration. Hence > > > there are > > > > limits to his independence when moderation issues come up. > > > > > > > > 3. Moderated forums generally are not popular in the Internet. > You > > > may have > > > > good interest from those who toe the official line. It should be > > > recalled, > > > > some years ago, there was a maillist ts-l, owned and moderated > by > > > TSA which > > > > fell on its face. > > > > > > > > 4. Even in unmoderated forums such as theos-talk and theos-l, > they > > > tend to > > > > be self-moderating without the interference of the owner. Any > > > unreasonable > > > > message posted do bring strong response from other readers and > that > > > > itself makes it recalliberating. It is extremely rare that the > > > owner had to > > > > intervene. In such cases, the poster is banned from posting. > > > > > > > > So when you read the msgs in the blog, keep the above in view. > > > > > > > > In view of the above reasons, you will find very valuable > > > information on > > > > theos-talk and theos-l which you will not find anywhere else. > > > > > > > > mkr > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Apr 29 08:46:15 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 24637 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2008 15:46:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2008 15:46:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.240) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2008 15:46:13 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id d33so13312and.24 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:46:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.101.1.7 with SMTP id d7mr4034030ani.100.1209483972003; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:46:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:46:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:46:11 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.240 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS in America X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=2gBelANhSPLRi1pXcQmVOfykq43-5RbJ2l4dr2pT3FXcYGiHA5A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43773 I just received a mailout from Krishnamurti Foundation in American in which it is stated that their mailing list in North America has 10,000 members. Krishnamurti died in 1986. 22 years later this indicates the popularity of K's philosophy in North America. Compared to it, we have about 4000 members of TS in America. As a % of the population, the membership shrunk with all the fan fare of parading PhDs among the leading theosophists. So we are having an organization which seems to be going down the hill, in spite of all the tall talk. The current international electioneering based on incorrect info is not going to help, unless the leadership places all the facts before the members soon. Interesting situation. mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From schuller@alpheus.org Tue Apr 29 09:17:28 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: schuller@alpheus.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 36340 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2008 16:17:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2008 16:17:26 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mailout08.yourhostingaccount.com) (65.254.253.234) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2008 16:17:26 -0000 X-Received: from mailscan11.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.15.11] helo=mailscan11.yourhostingaccount.com) by mailout08.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1JqsWD-00029J-Lv for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 12:17:25 -0400 X-Received: from impout03.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.55.3] helo=impout03.yourhostingaccount.com) by mailscan11.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1JqsWD-0007NP-85 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 12:17:25 -0400 X-Received: from authsmtp06.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.18.6]) by impout03.yourhostingaccount.com with NO UCE id KUHR1Z00507rVmq0000000; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 12:17:25 -0400 X-EN-OrigOutIP: 10.1.18.6 X-EN-IMPSID: KUHR1Z00507rVmq0000000 X-Received: from c-67-167-92-9.hsd1.il.comcast.net ([67.167.92.9] helo=govert) by authsmtp06.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtpa (Exim) id 1JqsWC-00044r-CU for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 12:17:24 -0400 Message-ID: <00c101c8aa70$e4433d10$0200a8c0@govert> To: References: Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 23:18:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1914 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1914 X-EN-UserInfo: 9d45116152675e45aabea1fab1ce7ef3:4846ef675e8dbc9a03569a74cb9c0e08 X-EN-AuthUser: schuller@alpheus.org X-EN-OrigIP: 67.167.92.9 X-EN-OrigHost: c-67-167-92-9.hsd1.il.comcast.net X-Originating-IP: 65.254.253.234 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Govert Schuller" Subject: Three Reasons to prefer Algeo over Burnier X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=57527381; y=V-Sfl_Y075dxMum7fIt6rJuNeEcHsdCtnA0sPalwFoFdUkgM-XEnZEw X-Yahoo-Profile: govert_alpheus X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43774 Carol Stream, April 29, 2008 Dear Brothers and Sisters, Greetings to all, especially Ramadoss, Chuck, Daniel, Paul Johnson, Katinka, Anand, and also all those who were so kind to discuss recently my views on Krishnamurti and the Theosophical Movement. (BTW, I'm not Gerald J. Schueler, Ph.D, as some of you might think) It has been a long time since I participated, but the upcoming PTS election is too important a subject to stay silent about. For starters, the following are my 3 reasons for preferring John Algeo over Radha Burnier: 1) My impression is that Adyar needs a long overdue technology upgrade. I'm sure Algeo, with his experience with the technology upgrades at Wheaton, will get things moving into the right direction. His experience and attitude is quite different from Burnier. Many theosophists reported that Burnier was not enthusiastic about the Internet and I perceive the Adyar web site as a reflection of that. 2) Algeo is more neutral and balanced in his perception of Krishnamurti. Radha sees K as the messiah and Algeo thinks there is a certain idealizing of K going on in the TS with the risk of creating another kind of sectarianism, which I would call Theosophical Krishnamurti-ism or Esoteric Krishnamurtianity. 3) As far as age and health are concerned I am, with many others, skeptical about Radha's fitness to take on another 7 years. She might be declared fit by her present physicians, but I have not heard anyone of them addressing the advisability of her continuing in her office into her 90s. And 28 years of service is quite enough. All the best Govert W. Schuller P.S.: To Ramadoss 4/28: Yes, we have received our ballots in the USA. To Ramadoss 4/28: The forum started by Chris Richardson is semi-moderated. Posting is restricted to 'authors,' but comments are unrestricted, and it's mostly in the comments that the real meat is to be found. Chris is a Theosophist who thinks for himself and his agenda is the improvement of the organizational culture and governance model at the TSA. The Theosophical Society: A forum for the discussion of institutional issues. http://theosophicalsociety.wordpress.com/ From Mvandertak@yahoo.com Tue Apr 29 09:35:05 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mvandertak@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 37561 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2008 16:35:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2008 16:35:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52606.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.209) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2008 16:35:02 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 88694 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Apr 2008 16:35:01 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: NAECX00VM1nLGwP1oU2WZvlO9PXzpGVlJgOYnzsh X-Received: from [82.217.39.103] by web52606.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:35:01 PDT Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:35:01 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <00c101c8aa70$e4433d10$0200a8c0@govert> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <776371.30323.qm@web52606.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.209 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Martin Subject: Re: Theos-World Three Reasons to prefer Algeo over Burnier X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=38276385; y=ZUzDB0Oq1SMXjWSQox2mGn7ZgJXFut7FGN3Dj85HWokVqgcPjQ X-Yahoo-Profile: mvandertak X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43775 For me there is only one reason not to vote: I am no TS member and if I were I would have sent my membershipcard back. What a bunch of egoistic losers. Time they read what will happen to egoistic people....do I hear Avitchi? --- Govert Schuller wrote: > Carol Stream, April 29, 2008 > > Dear Brothers and Sisters, > > Greetings to all, especially Ramadoss, Chuck, > Daniel, Paul Johnson, Katinka, > Anand, and also all those who were so kind to > discuss recently my views on > Krishnamurti and the Theosophical Movement. (BTW, > I'm not Gerald J. > Schueler, Ph.D, as some of you might think) > > It has been a long time since I participated, but > the upcoming PTS election > is too important a subject to stay silent about. For > starters, the following > are my 3 reasons for preferring John Algeo over > Radha Burnier: > > 1) My impression is that Adyar needs a long overdue > technology upgrade. I'm > sure Algeo, with his experience with the technology > upgrades at Wheaton, > will get things moving into the right direction. His > experience and attitude > is quite different from Burnier. Many theosophists > reported that Burnier was > not enthusiastic about the Internet and I perceive > the Adyar web site as a > reflection of that. > > 2) Algeo is more neutral and balanced in his > perception of Krishnamurti. > Radha sees K as the messiah and Algeo thinks there > is a certain idealizing > of K going on in the TS with the risk of creating > another kind of > sectarianism, which I would call Theosophical > Krishnamurti-ism or Esoteric > Krishnamurtianity. > > 3) As far as age and health are concerned I am, with > many others, skeptical > about Radha's fitness to take on another 7 years. > She might be declared fit > by her present physicians, but I have not heard > anyone of them addressing > the advisability of her continuing in her office > into her 90s. And 28 years > of service is quite enough. > > All the best > > Govert W. Schuller > > P.S.: To Ramadoss 4/28: Yes, we have received our > ballots in the USA. > > To Ramadoss 4/28: The forum started by Chris > Richardson is semi-moderated. > Posting is restricted to 'authors,' but comments are > unrestricted, and it's > mostly in the comments that the real meat is to be > found. Chris is a > Theosophist who thinks for himself and his agenda is > the improvement of the > organizational culture and governance model at the > TSA. > > The Theosophical Society: A forum for the discussion > of institutional > issues. http://theosophicalsociety.wordpress.com/ > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Apr 29 09:58:29 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 78562 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2008 16:58:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2008 16:58:27 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.251) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2008 16:58:27 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id d17so19134and.28 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:58:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.41.15 with SMTP id o15mr1892035ano.48.1209488306365; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:58:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:58:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:58:25 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <00c101c8aa70$e4433d10$0200a8c0@govert> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <00c101c8aa70$e4433d10$0200a8c0@govert> X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.251 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Three Reasons to prefer Algeo over Burnier X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=MAoDoxCYa5nvqY7kKbD30ajmnfc_HgOShjhioasX9BRPnHdbM08 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43776 Thanks for your post. The key issue in the current election is Radha Burnier's physical and mental health. All the electioneering going on against her is based on her poor mental and physical health. Even after taking the unusal step of getting examined by two physicians and their giving a certificate of her current fit health, the leaders of the sections who have canvassed their members on the basis of poor health of Radha Burnier, have not had the courage of telling their members of the fact that two physicians have declared her fit. Also there was a third physician who is a General Secretary in Europe who also independently said she is in a fit condition. So the nominators using Radha's health issue does not seem to have any trust in the judgement of a brother Secretary who has medical credentials. Incredible!!! The Secretaries trying to steal the election (to use the political term normally used in the US) based on erroneous health information is the unfortunate situation for an organization which is supposed to hold highest ethical and moral values. All those who are supporting Algeo have been keeping silent hoping all this will go away. That would have been so in pre Internet days when the leaders controlled free flow of information to members. Fortunately, now with Internet, we are able to discuss them here without interference and I hope in the long run it will work out. I do not know what kind of Karma is in store for TS. If non-age issue was key, then the nominators and nominee should have been upfront from day one when "real" electioneering started, which I suspect is about three years ago. I hope more members are accessing the maillist and keeping themselves fully informed. MKR THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN TRUTH On 4/29/08, Govert Schuller wrote: > > Carol Stream, April 29, 2008 > > Dear Brothers and Sisters, > > Greetings to all, especially Ramadoss, Chuck, Daniel, Paul Johnson, > Katinka, > Anand, and also all those who were so kind to discuss recently my views on > Krishnamurti and the Theosophical Movement. (BTW, I'm not Gerald J. > Schueler, Ph.D, as some of you might think) > > It has been a long time since I participated, but the upcoming PTS > election > is too important a subject to stay silent about. For starters, the > following > are my 3 reasons for preferring John Algeo over Radha Burnier: > > 1) My impression is that Adyar needs a long overdue technology upgrade. > I'm > sure Algeo, with his experience with the technology upgrades at Wheaton, > will get things moving into the right direction. His experience and > attitude > is quite different from Burnier. Many theosophists reported that Burnier > was > not enthusiastic about the Internet and I perceive the Adyar web site as a > reflection of that. > > 2) Algeo is more neutral and balanced in his perception of Krishnamurti. > Radha sees K as the messiah and Algeo thinks there is a certain idealizing > of K going on in the TS with the risk of creating another kind of > sectarianism, which I would call Theosophical Krishnamurti-ism or Esoteric > Krishnamurtianity. > > 3) As far as age and health are concerned I am, with many others, > skeptical > about Radha's fitness to take on another 7 years. She might be declared > fit > by her present physicians, but I have not heard anyone of them addressing > the advisability of her continuing in her office into her 90s. And 28 > years > of service is quite enough. > > All the best > > Govert W. Schuller > > P.S.: To Ramadoss 4/28: Yes, we have received our ballots in the USA. > > To Ramadoss 4/28: The forum started by Chris Richardson is semi-moderated. > Posting is restricted to 'authors,' but comments are unrestricted, and > it's > mostly in the comments that the real meat is to be found. Chris is a > Theosophist who thinks for himself and his agenda is the improvement of > the > organizational culture and governance model at the TSA. > > The Theosophical Society: A forum for the discussion of institutional > issues. http://theosophicalsociety.wordpress.com/ > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Apr 29 10:44:53 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 4440 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2008 17:44:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2008 17:44:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wx-out-0506.google.com) (66.249.82.226) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2008 17:44:50 -0000 X-Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i28so120707wxd.20 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:44:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.202.9 with SMTP id z9mr1965710anf.122.1209491090030; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:44:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:44:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 12:44:49 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <00c101c8aa70$e4433d10$0200a8c0@govert> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <00c101c8aa70$e4433d10$0200a8c0@govert> X-Originating-IP: 66.249.82.226 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Three Reasons to prefer Algeo over Burnier X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=kOtM88BILgnOQQEpr7djat1yDA8GNcD5GNjlXoNytB20J644z0Q Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43777 Govert: There are some built-in problems with a site moderated by Chris. He is an officer of TSA and probably he works there as an employee as well(someone with info can clarify this). So there is going to be a lot of subtle direct and indirect pressure put on him to moderate on posts which may not be in line with official policy or official political interests. We will never know because moderation (censoring) takes place prior to postings. Also we have not seen anyone from the organization or closely associated with it, participating in this or other independent forums. Even we have not seen Chris even though he has been around Olcott for some years. Why are they shy or is there an unwritten boycott? (Any clairvoyants, who can help!!!!) So if anyone wants to read unvarnished opinions and critical information, this maillist is the place. Also timing of the opening of the forum makes me wonder if the organizational leaders subtly encouraged him to open the forum so that info favorable to the organizational leaders or their policies have a place to display them to Internet users. This is especially so because of the continued silence of the Algeo nominators which includes the President of TSA, even after the Radha's doctors' certificates were sent to them. mkr --------------- Govert W. Schuller wrote: P.S.: To Ramadoss 4/28: The forum started by Chris Richardson is semi-moderated. Posting is restricted to 'authors,' but comments are unrestricted, and it's mostly in the comments that the real meat is to be found. Chris is a Theosophist who thinks for himself and his agenda is the improvement of the organizational culture and governance model at the TSA. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From schuller@alpheus.org Tue Apr 29 12:46:22 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: schuller@alpheus.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 8083 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2008 19:46:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2008 19:46:20 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mailout16.yourhostingaccount.com) (65.254.253.133) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2008 19:46:20 -0000 X-Received: from mailscan05.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.15.5] helo=mailscan05.yourhostingaccount.com) by mailout16.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1JqvmN-0001qJ-Dz for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:46:19 -0400 X-Received: from impout02.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.55.2] helo=impout02.yourhostingaccount.com) by mailscan05.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1JqvmN-00035v-An for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:46:19 -0400 X-Received: from authsmtp04.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.18.4]) by impout02.yourhostingaccount.com with NO UCE id KXm81Z00505G96J0000000; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:46:08 -0400 X-EN-OrigOutIP: 10.1.18.4 X-EN-IMPSID: KXm81Z00505G96J0000000 X-Received: from c-67-167-92-9.hsd1.il.comcast.net ([67.167.92.9] helo=govert) by authsmtp04.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtpa (Exim) id 1JqvmB-0005ak-U9 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:46:08 -0400 Message-ID: <013a01c8aa8e$0ca24c20$0200a8c0@govert> To: References: <00c101c8aa70$e4433d10$0200a8c0@govert> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 02:47:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1914 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1914 X-EN-UserInfo: 9d45116152675e45aabea1fab1ce7ef3:4846ef675e8dbc9a03569a74cb9c0e08 X-EN-AuthUser: schuller@alpheus.org X-EN-OrigIP: 67.167.92.9 X-EN-OrigHost: c-67-167-92-9.hsd1.il.comcast.net X-Originating-IP: 65.254.253.133 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Govert Schuller" Subject: Re: Theos-World Three Reasons to prefer Algeo over Burnier X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=57527381; y=FsF5OnI3Jp3X6izXU0AQal5JLN89e3jhdroNM1H510Lj68Oxunf0Sts X-Yahoo-Profile: govert_alpheus X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43778 Dear MKR, I'm glad for Radha Burnier and the TS that she's fit and well, for the moment. As I stated "I have not heard anyone of them [Radha's physicians] addressing the advisability of her continuing in her office into her 90s." I perceive this 'advisability' as more central than her present fitness. She is 84 years old, did suffer a mild stroke, served 28 years as PTS, is perceived by some, contrary to her physicians, as actually not fit, and she deserves to retire. I could construe, for the sake of argument, the silence of her physicians on that imo more central topic of the advisability of staying in office for another 7 years as conspicuous, especially now I am informing myself about "TRANSIENT ISCHEMIC ATTACK (TIA)," which her physician Dr. P Thirumalai stated that she suffered from. The American Heart Association (AHA) calls it a "warning stroke." In a next e-mail I will post the AHA info on TIA, so people can get a sense whether it would be desirable to have also a professional opinion on the advisability issue. Govert ----- Original Message ----- From: "MKR" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 12:58 PM Subject: Re: Theos-World Three Reasons to prefer Algeo over Burnier > Thanks for your post. > > The key issue in the current election is Radha Burnier's physical and mental > health. > > All the electioneering going on against her is based on her poor mental and > physical health. > > Even after taking the unusal step of getting examined by two physicians and > their giving a certificate of her current fit health, the leaders of the > sections who have canvassed their members on the basis of poor health of > Radha Burnier, have not had the courage of telling their members of the fact > that two physicians have declared her fit. Also there was a third physician > who is a General Secretary in Europe who also independently said she is in a > fit condition. So the nominators using Radha's health issue does not seem to > have any trust in the judgement of a brother Secretary who has medical > credentials. Incredible!!! > > The Secretaries trying to steal the election (to use the political term > normally used in the US) based on erroneous health information is the > unfortunate situation for an organization which is supposed to hold highest > ethical and moral values. All those who are supporting Algeo have been > keeping silent hoping all this will go away. > > That would have been so in pre Internet days when the leaders > controlled free flow of information to members. Fortunately, now with > Internet, we are able to discuss them here without interference and I hope > in the long run it will work out. I do not know what kind of Karma is in > store for TS. > > If non-age issue was key, then the nominators and nominee should have been > upfront from day one when "real" electioneering started, which I suspect is > about three years ago. > > I hope more members are accessing the maillist and keeping themselves fully > informed. > > MKR > > THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN TRUTH > > On 4/29/08, Govert Schuller wrote: > > > > Carol Stream, April 29, 2008 > > > > Dear Brothers and Sisters, > > > > Greetings to all, especially Ramadoss, Chuck, Daniel, Paul Johnson, > > Katinka, > > Anand, and also all those who were so kind to discuss recently my views on > > Krishnamurti and the Theosophical Movement. (BTW, I'm not Gerald J. > > Schueler, Ph.D, as some of you might think) > > > > It has been a long time since I participated, but the upcoming PTS > > election > > is too important a subject to stay silent about. For starters, the > > following > > are my 3 reasons for preferring John Algeo over Radha Burnier: > > > > 1) My impression is that Adyar needs a long overdue technology upgrade. > > I'm > > sure Algeo, with his experience with the technology upgrades at Wheaton, > > will get things moving into the right direction. His experience and > > attitude > > is quite different from Burnier. Many theosophists reported that Burnier > > was > > not enthusiastic about the Internet and I perceive the Adyar web site as a > > reflection of that. > > > > 2) Algeo is more neutral and balanced in his perception of Krishnamurti. > > Radha sees K as the messiah and Algeo thinks there is a certain idealizing > > of K going on in the TS with the risk of creating another kind of > > sectarianism, which I would call Theosophical Krishnamurti-ism or Esoteric > > Krishnamurtianity. > > > > 3) As far as age and health are concerned I am, with many others, > > skeptical > > about Radha's fitness to take on another 7 years. She might be declared > > fit > > by her present physicians, but I have not heard anyone of them addressing > > the advisability of her continuing in her office into her 90s. And 28 > > years > > of service is quite enough. > > > > All the best > > > > Govert W. Schuller > > > > P.S.: To Ramadoss 4/28: Yes, we have received our ballots in the USA. > > > > To Ramadoss 4/28: The forum started by Chris Richardson is semi-moderated. > > Posting is restricted to 'authors,' but comments are unrestricted, and > > it's > > mostly in the comments that the real meat is to be found. Chris is a > > Theosophist who thinks for himself and his agenda is the improvement of > > the > > organizational culture and governance model at the TSA. > > > > The Theosophical Society: A forum for the discussion of institutional > > issues. http://theosophicalsociety.wordpress.com/ > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > From schuller@alpheus.org Tue Apr 29 13:02:18 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: schuller@alpheus.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 17157 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2008 20:02:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m52.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2008 20:02:13 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mailout18.yourhostingaccount.com) (65.254.253.146) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2008 20:02:13 -0000 X-Received: from mailscan19.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.15.19] helo=mailscan19.yourhostingaccount.com) by mailout18.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1Jqw1k-0002Zo-Nq for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:02:12 -0400 X-Received: from impout02.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.55.2] helo=impout02.yourhostingaccount.com) by mailscan19.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1Jqw1k-00044i-Fy for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:02:12 -0400 X-Received: from authsmtp04.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.18.4]) by impout02.yourhostingaccount.com with NO UCE id KY211Z00A05G96J0000000; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:02:01 -0400 X-EN-OrigOutIP: 10.1.18.4 X-EN-IMPSID: KY211Z00A05G96J0000000 X-Received: from c-67-167-92-9.hsd1.il.comcast.net ([67.167.92.9] helo=govert) by authsmtp04.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtpa (Exim) id 1Jqw1Z-0008CK-JV for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:02:01 -0400 Message-ID: <014b01c8aa90$44e94550$0200a8c0@govert> To: References: <00c101c8aa70$e4433d10$0200a8c0@govert> <013a01c8aa8e$0ca24c20$0200a8c0@govert> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 03:03:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1914 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1914 X-EN-UserInfo: 9d45116152675e45aabea1fab1ce7ef3:4846ef675e8dbc9a03569a74cb9c0e08 X-EN-AuthUser: schuller@alpheus.org X-EN-OrigIP: 67.167.92.9 X-EN-OrigHost: c-67-167-92-9.hsd1.il.comcast.net X-Originating-IP: 65.254.253.146 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Govert Schuller" Subject: Transient Ischemic Attack (TIA) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=57527381; y=R3NM-V38tqXp3uFYpp8yfsCbVt8OKrwJRttaAhQtCxb-HMOK4Il74kE X-Yahoo-Profile: govert_alpheus X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43779 Transient Ischemic Attack (TIA) What is a TIA or transient ischemic attack? A TIA is a "warning stroke" or "mini-stroke" that produces stroke-like symptoms but no lasting damage. Recognizing and treating TIAs can reduce your risk of a major stroke. Most strokes aren't preceded by TIAs. However, of the people who've had one or more TIAs, more than a third will later have a stroke. In fact, a person who's had one or more TIAs is more likely to have a stroke than someone of the same age and sex who hasn't. TIAs are important in predicting if a stroke will occur rather than when one will happen. They can occur days, weeks or even months before a major stroke. In about half the cases, the stroke occurs within one year of the TIA. What causes a transient ischemic attack? TIAs occur when a blood clot temporarily clogs an artery, and part of the brain doesn't get the blood it needs. The symptoms occur rapidly and last a relatively short time. Most TIAs last less than five minutes. The average is about a minute. Unlike stroke, when a TIA is over, there's no injury to the brain. What are the symptoms of a TIA? It's very important to recognize the warning signs of a TIA or stroke. The usual TIA symptoms are the same as those of stroke, only temporary: a.. Sudden numbness or weakness of the face, arm or leg, especially on one side of the body b.. Sudden confusion, trouble speaking or understanding c.. Sudden trouble seeing in one or both eyes d.. Sudden trouble walking, dizziness, loss of balance or coordination e.. Sudden, severe headache with no known cause The short duration of these symptoms and lack of permanent brain injury is the main difference between TIA and stroke. TIAs are extremely important predictors of stroke. Don't ignore them! If symptoms appear, CALL 9-1-1 TO GET MEDICAL HELP IMMEDIATELY. A doctor should determine if a TIA or stroke has occurred, or if it's another medical problem with similar symptoms. Some examples are seizure, fainting, migraine headache, or general medical or cardiac condition. Prompt medical or surgical attention to these symptoms could prevent a fatal or disabling stroke from occurring. For stroke information, call the American Stroke Association at 1-888-4-STROKE. http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4781 From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Apr 29 13:58:50 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 42725 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2008 20:58:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2008 20:58:48 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wx-out-0506.google.com) (66.249.82.229) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2008 20:58:48 -0000 X-Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id h30so195164wxd.10 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 13:58:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.190.14 with SMTP id n14mr2320210anf.98.1209502726255; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 13:58:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 13:58:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:58:46 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <013a01c8aa8e$0ca24c20$0200a8c0@govert> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <00c101c8aa70$e4433d10$0200a8c0@govert> <013a01c8aa8e$0ca24c20$0200a8c0@govert> X-Originating-IP: 66.249.82.229 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Three Reasons to prefer Algeo over Burnier X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=YWQTelN2cjJKkAxeKzi2Ws3nUQS8YRR9loBRHh3WTf-wOmgRJL8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43780 Dear Shuller: The central issue is Radha Burnier's current physical and mental fitness.. I fault the General Secretaries in the way they addressed the issue. They should have addressed it head on ahead of time of nomination. Also when the Doctors certificates came out, they have kept silent. Not only silent, they did not make any attempt to disseminate the information to the members so far. All members deserve to be informed of this important information, because if you listen to some of the nominators' layman/woman opinion, Radha Burnier is very sick - mentally and physically and the doctors who have examined her give her a totally different opinion. I think that is very unfair to members. There are many physician members and highly educated members who either have first hand information on health matters or can research the doctors certificates and dissect the reports and interpret and share the interpretation on the Internet for all of us to be educated. That would make us use our intelligent judgement before we exercise our votes. So this seems to simply show that the old-time pre-internet mentality still prevails at the highest levels. In the past, they had control over the channel of information, so they could fine tune and feed info to members what they like. Thus in important matters members were kept in the dark and elections were channeled in the direction they liked and got their man or woman elected. Fortunately for members we have Internet today. But for the unmoderated maillist like this one, today we would not be exchanging ideas and information and keep up with world-wide developments. Also, these Internet forums are free and all the leaders could have used it to discuss all their points of view and it is free and all you need is an Internet connection. They have not done so.Why? mkr On 4/30/08, Govert Schuller wrote: > > Dear MKR, > > I'm glad for Radha Burnier and the TS that she's fit and well, for the > moment. As I stated "I have not heard anyone of them [Radha's physicians] > addressing the advisability of her continuing in her office into her 90s." > I > perceive this 'advisability' as more central than her present fitness. > > She is 84 years old, did suffer a mild stroke, served 28 years as PTS, is > perceived by some, contrary to her physicians, as actually not fit, and > she > deserves to retire. > > I could construe, for the sake of argument, the silence of her physicians > on > that imo more central topic of the advisability of staying in office for > another 7 years as conspicuous, especially now I am informing myself about > "TRANSIENT ISCHEMIC ATTACK (TIA)," which her physician Dr. P Thirumalai > stated that she suffered from. The American Heart Association (AHA) calls > it > a "warning stroke." In a next e-mail I will post the AHA info on TIA, so > people can get a sense whether it would be desirable to have also a > professional opinion on the advisability issue. > > Govert > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MKR" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 12:58 PM > Subject: Re: Theos-World Three Reasons to prefer Algeo over Burnier > > > Thanks for your post. > > > > The key issue in the current election is Radha Burnier's physical and > mental > > health. > > > > All the electioneering going on against her is based on her poor mental > and > > physical health. > > > > Even after taking the unusal step of getting examined by two physicians > and > > their giving a certificate of her current fit health, the leaders of the > > sections who have canvassed their members on the basis of poor health of > > Radha Burnier, have not had the courage of telling their members of the > fact > > that two physicians have declared her fit. Also there was a third > physician > > who is a General Secretary in Europe who also independently said she is > in > a > > fit condition. So the nominators using Radha's health issue does not > seem > to > > have any trust in the judgement of a brother Secretary who has medical > > credentials. Incredible!!! > > > > The Secretaries trying to steal the election (to use the political term > > normally used in the US) based on erroneous health information is the > > unfortunate situation for an organization which is supposed to hold > highest > > ethical and moral values. All those who are supporting Algeo have been > > keeping silent hoping all this will go away. > > > > That would have been so in pre Internet days when the leaders > > controlled free flow of information to members. Fortunately, now with > > Internet, we are able to discuss them here without interference and I > hope > > in the long run it will work out. I do not know what kind of Karma is in > > store for TS. > > > > If non-age issue was key, then the nominators and nominee should have > been > > upfront from day one when "real" electioneering started, which I suspect > is > > about three years ago. > > > > I hope more members are accessing the maillist and keeping themselves > fully > > informed. > > > > MKR > > > > THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN TRUTH > > > > On 4/29/08, Govert Schuller > > wrote: > > > > > > Carol Stream, April 29, 2008 > > > > > > Dear Brothers and Sisters, > > > > > > Greetings to all, especially Ramadoss, Chuck, Daniel, Paul Johnson, > > > Katinka, > > > Anand, and also all those who were so kind to discuss recently my > views > on > > > Krishnamurti and the Theosophical Movement. (BTW, I'm not Gerald J. > > > Schueler, Ph.D, as some of you might think) > > > > > > It has been a long time since I participated, but the upcoming PTS > > > election > > > is too important a subject to stay silent about. For starters, the > > > following > > > are my 3 reasons for preferring John Algeo over Radha Burnier: > > > > > > 1) My impression is that Adyar needs a long overdue technology > upgrade. > > > I'm > > > sure Algeo, with his experience with the technology upgrades at > Wheaton, > > > will get things moving into the right direction. His experience and > > > attitude > > > is quite different from Burnier. Many theosophists reported that > Burnier > > > was > > > not enthusiastic about the Internet and I perceive the Adyar web site > as > a > > > reflection of that. > > > > > > 2) Algeo is more neutral and balanced in his perception of > Krishnamurti. > > > Radha sees K as the messiah and Algeo thinks there is a certain > idealizing > > > of K going on in the TS with the risk of creating another kind of > > > sectarianism, which I would call Theosophical Krishnamurti-ism or > Esoteric > > > Krishnamurtianity. > > > > > > 3) As far as age and health are concerned I am, with many others, > > > skeptical > > > about Radha's fitness to take on another 7 years. She might be > declared > > > fit > > > by her present physicians, but I have not heard anyone of them > addressing > > > the advisability of her continuing in her office into her 90s. And 28 > > > years > > > of service is quite enough. > > > > > > All the best > > > > > > Govert W. Schuller > > > > > > P.S.: To Ramadoss 4/28: Yes, we have received our ballots in the USA. > > > > > > To Ramadoss 4/28: The forum started by Chris Richardson is > semi-moderated. > > > Posting is restricted to 'authors,' but comments are unrestricted, and > > > it's > > > mostly in the comments that the real meat is to be found. Chris is a > > > Theosophist who thinks for himself and his agenda is the improvement > of > > > the > > > organizational culture and governance model at the TSA. > > > > > > The Theosophical Society: A forum for the discussion of institutional > > > issues. http://theosophicalsociety.wordpress.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Tue Apr 29 16:25:39 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 52872 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2008 23:25:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2008 23:25:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52108.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.111) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2008 23:25:36 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 6893 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Apr 2008 23:25:36 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: tPsxagMVM1k4iYMhpd4QcnQGX9XXUh6IzIfBEBEC2CW.OPgg3qfMCsZzfGvAwgOCLKSIQltAgf2_pUDJUra6_fwlPNYfoky3aDOxcNAxusLmsawyZpHOsDN5I1A- X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52108.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:25:36 PDT Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:25:36 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <367831.6821.qm@web52108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.111 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World TS in America X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=FmHYXyY5i1rgWMBuV-hoBSqK2P9E4eaeILbf_qpi3sLJXaEpxg X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43781 Although I am not particularly interested in the power structure of the TS, I was thinking that the society needs some young blood that can reconcile current scientific findings with what HPB predicted. I imagine there are a number of people who qualify for this role, but springing to mind are Reed Carson and David Pratt. Whether they or anyone stay at the Theosophical Vatican in Adyar, to me, is immaterial. If the society is going to keep pace with technology it needs leaders who are part of this century. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the work of the above two gentlemen, and how their work has helped me to, not only understand some of the more scientific issues, but also pass this knowledge on to others. Cass MKR wrote: I just received a mailout from Krishnamurti Foundation in American in which it is stated that their mailing list in North America has 10,000 members. Krishnamurti died in 1986. 22 years later this indicates the popularity of K's philosophy in North America. Compared to it, we have about 4000 members of TS in America. As a % of the population, the membership shrunk with all the fan fare of parading PhDs among the leading theosophists. So we are having an organization which seems to be going down the hill, in spite of all the tall talk. The current international electioneering based on incorrect info is not going to help, unless the leadership places all the facts before the members soon. Interesting situation. mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Tue Apr 29 16:31:01 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 22707 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2008 23:30:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2008 23:30:59 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m22.mail.aol.com) (64.12.137.3) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2008 23:30:59 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c1d.399ce7e2 (34896) for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:30:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from FWM-M19 (fwm-m19.webmail.aol.com [64.12.168.83]) by cia-da01.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA015-88504817af91e5; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:30:25 -0400 References: <00c101c8aa70$e4433d10$0200a8c0@govert> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:30:24 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.199.151.243 In-Reply-To: <00c101c8aa70$e4433d10$0200a8c0@govert> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36240-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.199.151.243 by FWM-M19.sysops.aol.com (64.12.168.83) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:30:24 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA7868226AAD53-870-F69@FWM-M19.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.3 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Three Reasons to prefer Algeo over Burnier X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=MDbSxVzhsjdW_bRgQF3IFkGJRaf3QQ0KGMCrn0yGvqB2rGRPAA X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43782 I agree with all that you've said.? I know John Algeo and I've met Radha any number of times and John is my choice hands down.? For all his faults he is by far the better of the two. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: Govert Schuller To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:18 pm Subject: Theos-World Three Reasons to prefer Algeo over Burnier Carol Stream, April 29, 2008 Dear Brothers and Sisters, Greetings to all, especially Ramadoss, Chuck, Daniel, Paul Johnson, Katinka, Anand, and also all those who were so kind to discuss recently my views on Krishnamurti and the Theosophical Movement. (BTW, I'm not Gerald J. Schueler, Ph.D, as some of you might think) It has been a long time since I participated, but the upcoming PTS election is too important a subject to stay silent about. For starters, the following are my 3 reasons for preferring John Algeo over Radha Burnier: 1) My impression is that Adyar needs a long overdue technology upgrade. I'm sure Algeo, with his experience with the technology upgrades at Wheaton, will get things moving into the right direction. His experience and attitude is quite different from Burnier. Many theosophists reported that Burnier was not enthusiastic about the Internet and I perceive the Adyar web site as a reflection of that. 2) Algeo is more neutral and balanced in his perception of Krishnamurti. Radha sees K as the messiah and Algeo thinks there is a certain idealizing of K going on in the TS with the risk of creating another kind of sectarianism, which I would call Theosophical Krishnamurti-ism or Esoteric Krishnamurtianity. 3) As far as age and health are concerned I am, with many others, skeptical about Radha's fitness to take on another 7 years. She might be declared fit by her present physicians, but I have not heard anyone of them addressing the advisability of her continuing in her office into her 90s. And 28 years of service is quite enough. All the best Govert W. Schuller P.S.: To Ramadoss 4/28: Yes, we have received our ballots in the USA. To Ramadoss 4/28: The forum started by Chris Richardson is semi-moderated. Posting is restricted to 'authors,' but comments are unrestricted, and it's mostly in the comments that the real meat is to be found. Chris is a Theosophist who thinks for himself and his agenda is the improvement of the organizational culture and governance model at the TSA. The Theosophical Society: A forum for the discussion of institutional issues. http://theosophicalsociety.wordpress.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Tue Apr 29 16:37:37 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 12141 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2008 23:37:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2008 23:37:37 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m11.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.99) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2008 23:37:37 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c7c.26c53090 (34934) for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:37:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from FWM-M19 (fwm-m19.webmail.aol.com [64.12.168.83]) by cia-da04.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA047-88764817b13d23c; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:37:34 -0400 References: <00c101c8aa70$e4433d10$0200a8c0@govert> <013a01c8aa8e$0ca24c20$0200a8c0@govert> <014b01c8aa90$44e94550$0200a8c0@govert> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:37:33 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.199.151.243 In-Reply-To: <014b01c8aa90$44e94550$0200a8c0@govert> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36240-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.199.151.243 by FWM-M19.sysops.aol.com (64.12.168.83) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:37:33 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA786921E467EB-870-FDF@FWM-M19.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.143.99 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Transient Ischemic Attack (TIA) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=pnMgWudmomuZxBwmTOIWKRy5byAX1Fi2HnPUG2xZ_4riekiYRA X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43783 I can't think of a single international president who did not die in office.? It would be nice to change that old record. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: Govert Schuller To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 2:03 am Subject: Theos-World Transient Ischemic Attack (TIA) Transient Ischemic Attack (TIA) What is a TIA or transient ischemic attack? A TIA is a "warning stroke" or "mini-stroke" that produces stroke-like symptoms but no lasting damage. Recognizing and treating TIAs can reduce your risk of a major stroke. Most strokes aren't preceded by TIAs. However, of the people who've had one or more TIAs, more than a third will later have a stroke. In fact, a person who's had one or more TIAs is more likely to have a stroke than someone of the same age and sex who hasn't. TIAs are important in predicting if a stroke will occur rather than when one will happen. They can occur days, weeks or even months before a major stroke. In about half the cases, the stroke occurs within one year of the TIA. What causes a transient ischemic attack? TIAs occur when a blood clot temporarily clogs an artery, and part of the brain doesn't get the blood it needs. The symptoms occur rapidly and last a relatively short time. Most TIAs last less than five minutes. The average is about a minute. Unlike stroke, when a TIA is over, there's no injury to the brain. What are the symptoms of a TIA? It's very important to recognize the warning signs of a TIA or stroke. The usual TIA symptoms are the same as those of stroke, only temporary: a.. Sudden numbness or weakness of the face, arm or leg, especially on one side of the body b.. Sudden confusion, trouble speaking or understanding c.. Sudden trouble seeing in one or both eyes d.. Sudden trouble walking, dizziness, loss of balance or coordination e.. Sudden, severe headache with no known cause The short duration of these symptoms and lack of permanent brain injury is the main difference between TIA and stroke. TIAs are extremely important predictors of stroke. Don't ignore them! If symptoms appear, CALL 9-1-1 TO GET MEDICAL HELP IMMEDIATELY. A doctor should determine if a TIA or stroke has occurred, or if it's another medical problem with similar symptoms. Some examples are seizure, fainting, migraine headache, or general medical or cardiac condition. Prompt medical or surgical attention to these symptoms could prevent a fatal or disabling stroke from occurring. For stroke information, call the American Stroke Association at 1-888-4-STROKE. http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4781 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Tue Apr 29 16:50:33 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 9184 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2008 23:50:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Apr 2008 23:50:32 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m23.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.4) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Apr 2008 23:50:32 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d1d.227e9555 (37043) for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:50:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from FWM-M19 (fwm-m19.webmail.aol.com [64.12.168.83]) by cia-db03.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB031-90b34817b43a2a9; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:50:18 -0400 References: <00c101c8aa70$e4433d10$0200a8c0@govert> <013a01c8aa8e$0ca24c20$0200a8c0@govert> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:50:17 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.199.151.243 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36240-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.199.151.243 by FWM-M19.sysops.aol.com (64.12.168.83) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:50:17 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA786AE8E545E5-870-10A5@FWM-M19.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.4 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Three Reasons to prefer Algeo over Burnier X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=D-46GFnvgKjoODibxvdT6Wy0ySZPEIjxBpfDU2SwzhyKffUPpQ X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43784 I have a different take.? Ok, I'll admit that I've always questioned Radha's mental fitness from the first day that she staggered into Olcott.? I've also had a few minor run-ins with John but we always ended up laughing about them.? (He even forgave me for sleeping through his talk at the World Parliament of Religions in 1993.)? But the real reason that I want John to win is that I don't think the TS Presidency should be considered a lifetime appointment.? Radha losing the election would signal the?society that the president ain't no bloody Pope.? Once that aura is broken, maybe it might be possible to have the international administration behave in some rational manner towards the rest of the TS. ?Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: MKR To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 3:58 pm Subject: Re: Theos-World Three Reasons to prefer Algeo over Burnier Dear Shuller: The central issue is Radha Burnier's current physical and mental fitness.. I fault the General Secretaries in the way they addressed the issue. They should have addressed it head on ahead of time of nomination. Also when the Doctors certificates came out, they have kept silent. Not only silent, they did not make any attempt to disseminate the information to the members so far. All members deserve to be informed of this important information, because if you listen to some of the nominators' layman/woman opinion, Radha Burnier is very sick - mentally and physically and the doctors who have examined her give her a totally different opinion. I think that is very unfair to members. There are many physician members and highly educated members who either have first hand information on health matters or can research the doctors certificates and dissect the reports and interpret and share the interpretation on the Internet for all of us to be educated. That would make us use our intelligent judgement before we exercise our votes. So this seems to simply show that the old-time pre-internet mentality still prevails at the highest levels. In the past, they had control over the channel of information, so they could fine tune and feed info to members what they like. Thus in important matters members were kept in the dark and elections were channeled in the direction they liked and got their man or woman elected. Fortunately for members we have Internet today. But for the unmoderated maillist like this one, today we would not be exchanging ideas and information and keep up with world-wide developments. Also, these Internet forums are free and all the leaders could have used it to discuss all their points of view and it is free and all you need is an Internet connection. They have not done so.Why? mkr On 4/30/08, Govert Schuller wrote: > > Dear MKR, > > I'm glad for Radha Burnier and the TS that she's fit and well, for the > moment. As I stated "I have not heard anyone of them [Radha's physicians] > addressing the advisability of her continuing in her office into her 90s." > I > perceive this 'advisability' as more central than her present fitness. > > She is 84 years old, did suffer a mild stroke, served 28 years as PTS, is > perceived by some, contrary to her physicians, as actually not fit, and > she > deserves to retire. > > I could construe, for the sake of argument, the silence of her physicians > on > that imo more central topic of the advisability of staying in office for > another 7 years as conspicuous, especially now I am informing myself about > "TRANSIENT ISCHEMIC ATTACK (TIA)," which her physician Dr. P Thirumalai > stated that she suffered from. The American Heart Association (AHA) calls > it > a "warning stroke." In a next e-mail I will post the AHA info on TIA, so > people can get a sense whether it would be desirable to have also a > professional opinion on the advisability issue. > > Govert > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MKR" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 12:58 PM > Subject: Re: Theos-World Three Reasons to prefer Algeo over Burnier > > > Thanks for your post. > > > > The key issue in the current election is Radha Burnier's physical and > mental > > health. > > > > All the electioneering going on against her is based on her poor mental > and > > physical health. > > > > Even after taking the unusal step of getting examined by two physicians > and > > their giving a certificate of her current fit health, the leaders of the > > sections who have canvassed their members on the basis of poor health of > > Radha Burnier, have not had the courage of telling their members of the > fact > > that two physicians have declared her fit. Also there was a third > physician > > who is a General Secretary in Europe who also independently said she is > in > a > > fit condition. So the nominators using Radha's health issue does not > seem > to > > have any trust in the judgement of a brother Secretary who has medical > > credentials. Incredible!!! > > > > The Secretaries trying to steal the election (to use the political term > > normally used in the US) based on erroneous health information is the > > unfortunate situation for an organization which is supposed to hold > highest > > ethical and moral values. All those who are supporting Algeo have been > > keeping silent hoping all this will go away. > > > > That would have been so in pre Internet days when the leaders > > controlled free flow of information to members. Fortunately, now with > > Internet, we are able to discuss them here without interference and I > hope > > in the long run it will work out. I do not know what kind of Karma is in > > store for TS. > > > > If non-age issue was key, then the nominators and nominee should have > been > > upfront from day one when "real" electioneering started, which I suspect > is > > about three years ago. > > > > I hope more members are accessing the maillist and keeping themselves > fully > > informed. > > > > MKR > > > > THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN TRUTH > > > > On 4/29/08, Govert Schuller > > wrote: > > > > > > Carol Stream, April 29, 2008 > > > > > > Dear Brothers and Sisters, > > > > > > Greetings to all, especially Ramadoss, Chuck, Daniel, Paul Johnson, > > > Katinka, > > > Anand, and also all those who were so kind to discuss recently my > views > on > > > Krishnamurti and the Theosophical Movement. (BTW, I'm not Gerald J. > > > Schueler, Ph.D, as some of you might think) > > > > > > It has been a long time since I participated, but the upcoming PTS > > > election > > > is too important a subject to stay silent about. For starters, the > > > following > > > are my 3 reasons for preferring John Algeo over Radha Burnier: > > > > > > 1) My impression is that Adyar needs a long overdue technology > upgrade. > > > I'm > > > sure Algeo, with his experience with the technology upgrades at > Wheaton, > > > will get things moving into the right direction. His experience and > > > attitude > > > is quite different from Burnier. Many theosophists reported that > Burnier > > > was > > > not enthusiastic about the Internet and I perceive the Adyar web site > as > a > > > reflection of that. > > > > > > 2) Algeo is more neutral and balanced in his perception of > Krishnamurti. > > > Radha sees K as the messiah and Algeo thinks there is a certain > idealizing > > > of K going on in the TS with the risk of creating another kind of > > > sectarianism, which I would call Theosophical Krishnamurti-ism or > Esoteric > > > Krishnamurtianity. > > > > > > 3) As far as age and health are concerned I am, with many others, > > > skeptical > > > about Radha's fitness to take on another 7 years. She might be > declared > > > fit > > > by her present physicians, but I have not heard anyone of them > addressing > > > the advisability of her continuing in her office into her 90s. And 28 > > > years > > > of service is quite enough. > > > > > > All the best > > > > > > Govert W. Schuller > > > > > > P.S.: To Ramadoss 4/28: Yes, we have received our ballots in the USA. > > > > > > To Ramadoss 4/28: The forum started by Chris Richardson is > semi-moderated. > > > Posting is restricted to 'authors,' but comments are unrestricted, and > > > it's > > > mostly in the comments that the real meat is to be found. Chris is a > > > Theosophist who thinks for himself and his agenda is the improvement > of > > > the > > > organizational culture and governance model at the TSA. > > > > > > The Theosophical Society: A forum for the discussion of institutional > > > issues. http://theosophicalsociety.wordpress.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Apr 29 17:48:21 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 26807 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2008 00:48:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2008 00:48:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.250) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2008 00:48:18 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id d40so57724and.62 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:48:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.120.15 with SMTP id s15mr167257anc.46.1209516498037; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:48:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:48:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:48:17 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8CA786921E467EB-870-FDF@FWM-M19.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <00c101c8aa70$e4433d10$0200a8c0@govert> <013a01c8aa8e$0ca24c20$0200a8c0@govert> <014b01c8aa90$44e94550$0200a8c0@govert> <8CA786921E467EB-870-FDF@FWM-M19.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.250 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World Transient Ischemic Attack (TIA) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=0a2iSzJDsK31IYZayvCZTkyh0kl1tMlWShKDVw-4q-GAINoM3nk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43785 Chuck, how about C Jinarajadasa? mkr On 4/29/08, Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > > I can't think of a single international president who did not die in > office.? It would be nice to change that old record. > > Chuck the Heretic > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > -----Original Message----- > From: Govert Schuller > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 2:03 am > Subject: Theos-World Transient Ischemic Attack (TIA) > > Transient Ischemic Attack (TIA) > > What is a TIA or transient ischemic attack? > > A TIA is a "warning stroke" or "mini-stroke" that produces stroke-like > symptoms but no lasting damage. Recognizing and treating TIAs can reduce > your risk of a major stroke. > > Most strokes aren't preceded by TIAs. However, of the people who've had > one > or more TIAs, more than a third will later have a stroke. In fact, a > person > who's had one or more TIAs is more likely to have a stroke than someone of > the same age and sex who hasn't. > > TIAs are important in predicting if a stroke will occur rather than when > one > will happen. They can occur days, weeks or even months before a major > stroke. In about half the cases, the stroke occurs within one year of the > TIA. > > What causes a transient ischemic attack? > > TIAs occur when a blood clot temporarily clogs an artery, and part of the > brain doesn't get the blood it needs. The symptoms occur rapidly and last > a > relatively short time. Most TIAs last less than five minutes. The average > is > about a minute. Unlike stroke, when a TIA is over, there's no injury to > the > brain. > > What are the symptoms of a TIA? > > It's very important to recognize the warning signs of a TIA or stroke. The > usual TIA symptoms are the same as those of stroke, only temporary: > > a.. Sudden numbness or weakness of the face, arm or leg, especially on one > side of the body > b.. Sudden confusion, trouble speaking or understanding > c.. Sudden trouble seeing in one or both eyes > d.. Sudden trouble walking, dizziness, loss of balance or coordination > e.. Sudden, severe headache with no known cause > The short duration of these symptoms and lack of permanent brain injury is > the main difference between TIA and stroke. > > TIAs are extremely important predictors of stroke. Don't ignore them! If > symptoms appear, CALL 9-1-1 TO GET MEDICAL HELP IMMEDIATELY. A doctor > should > determine if a TIA or stroke has occurred, or if it's another medical > problem with similar symptoms. Some examples are seizure, fainting, > migraine > headache, or general medical or cardiac condition. Prompt medical or > surgical attention to these symptoms could prevent a fatal or disabling > stroke from occurring. > > For stroke information, call the American Stroke Association at > 1-888-4-STROKE. > > http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4781 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Apr 29 17:51:58 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 17602 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2008 00:51:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2008 00:51:57 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.241) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2008 00:51:57 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c8so47420ana.106 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:51:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.194.5 with SMTP id r5mr141776anf.104.1209516716447; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:51:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:51:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:51:56 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.241 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Fwd: [theos-l] Election Committee's response to the French TS Board X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=o-ZeIRmh7BZO7q_SGiZ6GFNjNZOouyADP2hHUWD5y79JwCpdgpM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43786 Here is a msg posted on theos-l. MKR ====== From: prmoliveira Date: Apr 29, 2008 7:23 PM Subject: [theos-l] Election Committee's response to the French TS Board To: theos-l@yahoogroups.com Below is the text of the letter the Election Committee of the TS at Adyar sent, on 18 April 2008, to the General Secretary of the TS in France, with copies to all General Secretaries of the TS. The letter also attached copies of the medical certificates issued by Radha Burnier's doctors. Pedro Oliveira "We wish to point out that there are some serious mistakes in the letter dated 29.3.08 addressed by Maxence Ondet to the members of the French Section on behalf of the Conseil Directeur of that Section. She says that she has the duty of informing the French members about the state of President Radha's health. We wish to draw your attention to some items of serious consequence. The allegations made by the French Section Council cast an aspersion on the decision of the Executive Committee at Adyar taken on 1 March 2008 to include Radha Burnier's name as well as that of John Algeo as candidates in the election. It is completely wrong for a Section Council to give views on this matter when the Executive Committee has taken a decision. 1. The French Council says that Radha Burnier suffered a grave AVC which prevented her from speaking etc. This is not true. She spoke soon afterwards to Dr. P. Tirumalai, a cardiologist and her personal physician, and to some others, and her recovery was fairly fast. 2. It is a matter of one's individual reaction to find her Convention lecture lacking in consistency etc. This view cannot be attributed to all the General Secretaries who were present. 3. It is completely false to state that Radha Burnier accomplishes her tasks painfully every day with the aid of `patient, devoted and faithful workers', and that the Editorials of the Adyar Theosophist are not written by her. We know that she attends to her work as usual. Some of it is delayed of course, because of the amount of work she has to attend to. 4. It is completely false to speak of `her' letters as being written by collaborators, of her inconsistent views or to state that some people are profiting from her condition etc. If the General Council and the Executive Committee of the Society had thought that her mental condition affected the Society's work, they would have said so and considered her candidature a liability. The fact that many Sections agreed to nominate her proves her suitability and not the contrary. Attached herewith are two medical certificates. We expect you to take immediate action to counteract the impression created in the letter from Maxence Ondet dated 29 March 2008. With best wishes, Yours fraternally, The Election Committee (Mary Anderson, Keshwar Dastur, Dr C. V. Agarwal)" [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Apr 29 20:42:53 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 15637 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2008 03:42:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2008 03:42:50 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.250) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2008 03:42:50 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c28so43799ana.65 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:42:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.92.9 with SMTP id p9mr320996anb.124.1209526969624; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:42:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:42:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 22:42:49 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.250 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS Elections -- Why Members are Kept in the Dark? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=K6Jnd_ksbRlWhMg7n_BBOAXA1UITLDkqx0PTOT8DrvioeuI3ZZM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43787 Members in the United States received a letter by US Mail from the National President(Secretary is called President in the US) informing them of the upcoming elections and encouraging them to vote for Algeo because of the poor mental and physical condition of the current International President Radha Burnier. For a letter coming from the National Leader, members pay attention and importance and tend to attach a lot of credibility to the statements of the National Leader of the TS (whose Motto is "There is No Religion Higher than Truth".) This is the first time ever in the history, that members got a personal election solicitation letter from the National Head. Lo and behold, when I turned on the computer, I find a lot of additional news surrounding the election/electioneering. Couple of days later we find out that statement contained in the letter regarding the health of Radha Burnier was erroneous and can be considered misleading and meant to induce members to vote for Algeo. Two physicians who examined Radha Burnier issued certificates vouching for her mental and physical fitness. Members who do not have access to Internet or the maillists, were totally unaware of this very important development. A recent message posted here, confirms that on April 18, copies of the medical certificates were mailed by the Election Committe in Adyar to all the General Secretaries. The message states: "Below is the text of the letter the Election Committee of the TS at Adyar sent, on 18 April 2008, to the General Secretary of the TS in France, with copies to all General Secretaries of the TS. The letter also attached copies of the medical certificates issued by Radha Burnier's doctors." Till today, none of the members have received any notification of the new facts thus correcting the error in the earlier solicitation letter. So it is clear that the National President was sitting on these important documents and information and keeping the members in the dark. Only conclusion one can reach is that in the enthusiasm of the President to get Algeo elected, it was found convenient to keep the members in the dark. This is an insult to the members, including me and if such important info is kept from members, we have to wonder what other information is kept hidden from the members for whatever reason. It goes to the core of the issue of trust in the leadership. Once trust is lost, it is never regained. It is real pity that this is happening in an organization whose motto is -- There is No Religion Higher Than Truth. Links to full texts of referenced message are at the bottom of this message. I hope and pray that members are notified and brought uptodate on correct facts before it is too late. mkr Links: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/43592 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/43786 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From MarieMAJ41@aol.com Tue Apr 29 21:16:25 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: MarieMAJ41@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 42839 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2008 04:16:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m54.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2008 04:16:23 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2008 04:16:22 -0000 X-Received: from MarieMAJ41@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d20.29b7abcf (37129) for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 00:16:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from MBLK-M12 (mblk-m12.mblk.aol.com [64.12.136.45]) by cia-ma02.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMA023-91094817f28f114; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 00:16:15 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 00:16:15 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-AOL-IP: 24.7.215.159 X-MB-Message-Type: User MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36240-STANDARD X-Received: from 24.7.215.159 by MBLK-M12.sysops.aol.com (64.12.136.45) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 30 Apr 2008 00:16:15 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA7890112A88F7-1394-1C40@MBLK-M12.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.144.208 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 From: MarieMAJ41@aol.com Subject: where is...? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=90655958; y=RIk3ZGDYW2zO-ptgYfYqphuXfNzEDrldnMZEJZXY_9jG0VQXnQA X-Yahoo-Profile: olgamarie41 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43788 Hello friends, After a considerable period of lurking, I now find that there are absolutely no messages from our friend Daniel Caldwell. Does anyone know what has become of Daniel? Thank you. Marie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Tue Apr 29 21:52:49 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 48399 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2008 04:52:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2008 04:52:47 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO web52107.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.110) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2008 04:52:47 -0000 X-Received: (qmail 49011 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Apr 2008 04:52:47 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: yZj1OFwVM1katiiryHkpvYw74gV7kQuZdoGUPLWl6XdjC18BOQ5LDKlUT4fA8EqGV06_My3LqyWml98pxnV8EKIs6G_337kBqlEyHJ2fVOEvDiVLzqBKPyTPg1Tr8R5iNDb4JBOz1lQAygNHqn_6SSkOxYxOME3BmfzIT8M- X-Received: from [122.108.1.82] by web52107.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 21:52:46 PDT Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 21:52:46 -0700 (PDT) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8CA786921E467EB-870-FDF@FWM-M19.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <9371.48994.qm@web52107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.110 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Transient Ischemic Attack (TIA) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=mkEyGL05IPOEp_zPt8uOc6341b0CT14giQ3WIB_jLNfCf3cDpw X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43789 Why, the Popes dont Cass Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: I can't think of a single international president who did not die in office.? It would be nice to change that old record. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: Govert Schuller To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 2:03 am Subject: Theos-World Transient Ischemic Attack (TIA) Transient Ischemic Attack (TIA) What is a TIA or transient ischemic attack? A TIA is a "warning stroke" or "mini-stroke" that produces stroke-like symptoms but no lasting damage. Recognizing and treating TIAs can reduce your risk of a major stroke. Most strokes aren't preceded by TIAs. However, of the people who've had one or more TIAs, more than a third will later have a stroke. In fact, a person who's had one or more TIAs is more likely to have a stroke than someone of the same age and sex who hasn't. TIAs are important in predicting if a stroke will occur rather than when one will happen. They can occur days, weeks or even months before a major stroke. In about half the cases, the stroke occurs within one year of the TIA. What causes a transient ischemic attack? TIAs occur when a blood clot temporarily clogs an artery, and part of the brain doesn't get the blood it needs. The symptoms occur rapidly and last a relatively short time. Most TIAs last less than five minutes. The average is about a minute. Unlike stroke, when a TIA is over, there's no injury to the brain. What are the symptoms of a TIA? It's very important to recognize the warning signs of a TIA or stroke. The usual TIA symptoms are the same as those of stroke, only temporary: a.. Sudden numbness or weakness of the face, arm or leg, especially on one side of the body b.. Sudden confusion, trouble speaking or understanding c.. Sudden trouble seeing in one or both eyes d.. Sudden trouble walking, dizziness, loss of balance or coordination e.. Sudden, severe headache with no known cause The short duration of these symptoms and lack of permanent brain injury is the main difference between TIA and stroke. TIAs are extremely important predictors of stroke. Don't ignore them! If symptoms appear, CALL 9-1-1 TO GET MEDICAL HELP IMMEDIATELY. A doctor should determine if a TIA or stroke has occurred, or if it's another medical problem with similar symptoms. Some examples are seizure, fainting, migraine headache, or general medical or cardiac condition. Prompt medical or surgical attention to these symptoms could prevent a fatal or disabling stroke from occurring. For stroke information, call the American Stroke Association at 1-888-4-STROKE. http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4781 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Tue Apr 29 22:04:36 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 67340 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2008 05:04:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2008 05:04:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.248) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2008 05:04:34 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c5so83317anc.0 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 22:04:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.33.4 with SMTP id g4mr433306ang.111.1209531874300; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 22:04:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Apr 2008 22:04:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 00:04:34 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8CA7890112A88F7-1394-1C40@MBLK-M12.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8CA7890112A88F7-1394-1C40@MBLK-M12.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.248 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World where is...? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=oKBywIc3u3CBrY44y1wKmh7sNslCjJZfA8XwxJY9nILq_XD3DV0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43790 Hi, Marie: Some months ago, there was a message from some one that he passed away early last year. But soon we found that he had posted a msg two months before. Finally, I tracked him down. When I called, the person who picked up the phone told me that he had stepped out and I told the person the rumor and was assured all is well with him. I did not have a chance to talk to him. If anyone needs more info, please contact me off-line. mkr On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 11:16 PM, wrote: > Hello friends, > > After a considerable period of lurking, I now find that there are > absolutely no messages from our friend Daniel Caldwell. Does anyone know > what has become of Daniel? Thank you. > > Marie > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Tue Apr 29 22:55:04 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 5190 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2008 05:55:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2008 05:55:01 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m11.mail.aol.com) (64.12.143.99) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2008 05:55:01 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d00.2dc6e1e2 (37044) for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 01:54:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from WEBMAIL-DC02 (webmail-dc02.webmail.aol.com [205.188.149.24]) by cia-db03.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB032-90b4481809af3b1; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 01:54:55 -0400 References: <00c101c8aa70$e4433d10$0200a8c0@govert> <013a01c8aa8e$0ca24c20$0200a8c0@govert> <014b01c8aa90$44e94550$0200a8c0@govert> <8CA786921E467EB-870-FDF@FWM-M19.sysops.aol.com> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 01:54:55 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.199.151.243 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36240-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.199.151.243 by WEBMAIL-DC02.sysops.aol.com (205.188.149.24) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 30 Apr 2008 01:54:55 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA789DD9977124-BE4-1BBB@WEBMAIL-DC02.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.143.99 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Transient Ischemic Attack (TIA) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=dzubqzD6UMs_Pk5DtFUaXCCjfxBltzrGdIlmhQb2T-RBdi_wkA X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43791 Really?? I thought that he had.? I sit corrected. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: MKR To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 7:48 pm Subject: Re: Theos-World Transient Ischemic Attack (TIA) Chuck, how about C Jinarajadasa? mkr On 4/29/08, Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > > I can't think of a single international president who did not die in > office.? It would be nice to change that old record. > > Chuck the Heretic > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > -----Original Message----- > From: Govert Schuller > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 2:03 am > Subject: Theos-World Transient Ischemic Attack (TIA) > > Transient Ischemic Attack (TIA) > > What is a TIA or transient ischemic attack? > > A TIA is a "warning stroke" or "mini-stroke" that produces stroke-like > symptoms but no lasting damage. Recognizing and treating TIAs can reduce > your risk of a major stroke. > > Most strokes aren't preceded by TIAs. However, of the people who've had > one > or more TIAs, more than a third will later have a stroke. In fact, a > person > who's had one or more TIAs is more likely to have a stroke than someone of > the same age and sex who hasn't. > > TIAs are important in predicting if a stroke will occur rather than when > one > will happen. They can occur days, weeks or even months before a major > stroke. In about half the cases, the stroke occurs within one year of the > TIA. > > What causes a transient ischemic attack? > > TIAs occur when a blood clot temporarily clogs an artery, and part of the > brain doesn't get the blood it needs. The symptoms occur rapidly and last > a > relatively short time. Most TIAs last less than five minutes. The average > is > about a minute. Unlike stroke, when a TIA is over, there's no injury to > the > brain. > > What are the symptoms of a TIA? > > It's very important to recognize the warning signs of a TIA or stroke. The > usual TIA symptoms are the same as those of stroke, only temporary: > > a.. Sudden numbness or weakness of the face, arm or leg, especially on one > side of the body > b.. Sudden confusion, trouble speaking or understanding > c.. Sudden trouble seeing in one or both eyes > d.. Sudden trouble walking, dizziness, loss of balance or coordination > e.. Sudden, severe headache with no known cause > The short duration of these symptoms and lack of permanent brain injury is > the main difference between TIA and stroke. > > TIAs are extremely important predictors of stroke. Don't ignore them! If > symptoms appear, CALL 9-1-1 TO GET MEDICAL HELP IMMEDIATELY. A doctor > should > determine if a TIA or stroke has occurred, or if it's another medical > problem with similar symptoms. Some examples are seizure, fainting, > migraine > headache, or general medical or cardiac condition. Prompt medical or > surgical attention to these symptoms could prevent a fatal or disabling > stroke from occurring. > > For stroke information, call the American Stroke Association at > 1-888-4-STROKE. > > http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4781 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Tue Apr 29 23:04:03 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60226 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2008 06:04:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2008 06:04:02 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m23.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.4) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2008 06:04:02 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d38.28567062 (34934) for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 02:03:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from WEBMAIL-DC02 (webmail-dc02.webmail.aol.com [205.188.149.24]) by cia-da04.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA047-887648180bcd202; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 02:03:57 -0400 References: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 02:03:57 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.199.151.243 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36240-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.199.151.243 by WEBMAIL-DC02.sysops.aol.com (205.188.149.24) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 30 Apr 2008 02:03:57 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA789F1CA5D0F9-BE4-1BD5@WEBMAIL-DC02.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.4 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Elections -- Why Members are Kept in the Dark? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=Y0lR56yxs1y6OLBX17SfynmINF_vkBhKmdATwM3yyQW7iILYdg X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43792 Anyone who has ever had the misfortune to get involved in TS politics knows that truth is not part of the equation.? I think the reason the members are kept in the dark is that they are too cheap to pay the electric bill. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: MKR To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; theos-L@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:42 pm Subject: Theos-World TS Elections -- Why Members are Kept in the Dark? Members in the United States received a letter by US Mail from the National President(Secretary is called President in the US) informing them of the upcoming elections and encouraging them to vote for Algeo because of the poor mental and physical condition of the current International President Radha Burnier. For a letter coming from the National Leader, members pay attention and importance and tend to attach a lot of credibility to the statements of the National Leader of the TS (whose Motto is "There is No Religion Higher than Truth".) This is the first time ever in the history, that members got a personal election solicitation letter from the National Head. Lo and behold, when I turned on the computer, I find a lot of additional news surrounding the election/electioneering. Couple of days later we find out that statement contained in the letter regarding the health of Radha Burnier was erroneous and can be considered misleading and meant to induce members to vote for Algeo. Two physicians who examined Radha Burnier issued certificates vouching for her mental and physical fitness. Members who do not have access to Internet or the maillists, were totally unaware of this very important development. A recent message posted here, confirms that on April 18, copies of the medical certificates were mailed by the Election Committe in Adyar to all the General Secretaries. The message states: "Below is the text of the letter the Election Committee of the TS at Adyar sent, on 18 April 2008, to the General Secretary of the TS in France, with copies to all General Secretaries of the TS. The letter also attached copies of the medical certificates issued by Radha Burnier's doctors." Till today, none of the members have received any notification of the new facts thus correcting the error in the earlier solicitation letter. So it is clear that the National President was sitting on these important documents and information and keeping the members in the dark. Only conclusion one can reach is that in the enthusiasm of the President to get Algeo elected, it was found convenient to keep the members in the dark. This is an insult to the members, including me and if such important info is kept from members, we have to wonder what other information is kept hidden from the members for whatever reason. It goes to the core of the issue of trust in the leadership. Once trust is lost, it is never regained. It is real pity that this is happening in an organization whose motto is -- There is No Religion Higher Than Truth. Links to full texts of referenced message are at the bottom of this message. I hope and pray that members are notified and brought uptodate on correct facts before it is too late. mkr Links: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/43592 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/43786 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Tue Apr 29 23:05:22 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 28392 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2008 06:05:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2008 06:05:21 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m25.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.6) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2008 06:05:21 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.d4d.1da55fe7 (37049) for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 02:05:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from WEBMAIL-DC02 (webmail-dc02.webmail.aol.com [205.188.149.24]) by cia-db03.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB037-90b948180c1142; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 02:05:05 -0400 References: <8CA7890112A88F7-1394-1C40@MBLK-M12.sysops.aol.com> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 02:05:05 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.199.151.243 In-Reply-To: <8CA7890112A88F7-1394-1C40@MBLK-M12.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36240-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.199.151.243 by WEBMAIL-DC02.sysops.aol.com (205.188.149.24) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 30 Apr 2008 02:05:05 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA789F44EF7957-BE4-1BD9@WEBMAIL-DC02.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.6 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World where is...? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=c0tZkW4Wwn4znaI4qQANjhS5IXWyfYfjhgzJXSKuJ3t1TXWYkQ X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43793 It is something of mystery.? Maybe he heard that Paul has a new book out and sort of exploded. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: MarieMAJ41@aol.com To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:16 pm Subject: Theos-World where is...? Hello friends, After a considerable period of lurking, I now find that there are absolutely no messages from our friend Daniel Caldwell. Does anyone know what has become of Daniel? Thank you. Marie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Tue Apr 29 23:07:47 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 63018 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2008 06:07:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m57.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2008 06:07:46 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2008 06:07:46 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.bc7.21ea7adb (37035) for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 02:07:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from WEBMAIL-DC02 (webmail-dc02.webmail.aol.com [205.188.149.24]) by cia-db02.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB025-90ab48180cab5b; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 02:07:40 -0400 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 02:07:39 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.199.151.243 In-Reply-To: <9371.48994.qm@web52107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36240-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.199.151.243 by WEBMAIL-DC02.sysops.aol.com (205.188.149.24) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 30 Apr 2008 02:07:39 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA789FA1248AC8-BE4-1BDF@WEBMAIL-DC02.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.139.136 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Transient Ischemic Attack (TIA) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=MM-H1YoN0ZDCCvLrvVhzMld3EVmRFTkCDplT8ZtywSUBnlcP0g X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43794 The last cross-dressing loon we had as a TS President was George Arundale, and that was enough. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: Cass Silva To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:52 pm Subject: Re: Theos-World Transient Ischemic Attack (TIA) Why, the Popes dont Cass Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: I can't think of a single international president who did not die in office.? It would be nice to change that old record. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: Govert Schuller To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 2:03 am Subject: Theos-World Transient Ischemic Attack (TIA) Transient Ischemic Attack (TIA) What is a TIA or transient ischemic attack? A TIA is a "warning stroke" or "mini-stroke" that produces stroke-like symptoms but no lasting damage. Recognizing and treating TIAs can reduce your risk of a major stroke. Most strokes aren't preceded by TIAs. However, of the people who've had one or more TIAs, more than a third will later have a stroke. In fact, a person who's had one or more TIAs is more likely to have a stroke than someone of the same age and sex who hasn't. TIAs are important in predicting if a stroke will occur rather than when one will happen. They can occur days, weeks or even months before a major stroke. In about half the cases, the stroke occurs within one year of the TIA. What causes a transient ischemic attack? TIAs occur when a blood clot temporarily clogs an artery, and part of the brain doesn't get the blood it needs. The symptoms occur rapidly and last a relatively short time. Most TIAs last less than five minutes. The average is about a minute. Unlike stroke, when a TIA is over, there's no injury to the brain. What are the symptoms of a TIA? It's very important to recognize the warning signs of a TIA or stroke. The usual TIA symptoms are the same as those of stroke, only temporary: a.. Sudden numbness or weakness of the face, arm or leg, especially on one side of the body b.. Sudden confusion, trouble speaking or understanding c.. Sudden trouble seeing in one or both eyes d.. Sudden trouble walking, dizziness, loss of balance or coordination e.. Sudden, severe headache with no known cause The short duration of these symptoms and lack of permanent brain injury is the main difference between TIA and stroke. TIAs are extremely important predictors of stroke. Don't ignore them! If symptoms appear, CALL 9-1-1 TO GET MEDICAL HELP IMMEDIATELY. A doctor should determine if a TIA or stroke has occurred, or if it's another medical problem with similar symptoms. Some examples are seizure, fainting, migraine headache, or general medical or cardiac condition. Prompt medical or surgical attention to these symptoms could prevent a fatal or disabling stroke from occurring. For stroke information, call the American Stroke Association at 1-888-4-STROKE. http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4781 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From anton_rozman@yahoo.com Wed Apr 30 02:53:05 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: anton_rozman@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 69425 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2008 09:53:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2008 09:53:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO n44b.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com) (66.163.168.158) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2008 09:53:03 -0000 X-Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n44.bullet.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Apr 2008 09:53:03 -0000 X-Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Apr 2008 09:53:03 -0000 X-Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Apr 2008 09:53:03 -0000 Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:53:02 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.163.168.158 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 209.73.164.200 From: "Anton Rozman" Subject: Re: Fwd: [theos-l] Election Committee's response to the French TS Board X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=192242904; y=DJIdmWDev9N7k6vlF3aYHwvj0aFkZG7YXVvVJYMySCEUEx99d7jb X-Yahoo-Profile: anton_rozman X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43795 We have at least an unusual election process indeed.=20 In the absence of the policy of the Society determined by the General=20 Council, the violation of the Rules and Regulations is taking place=20 with the circulation and publication of the material which isn't=20 approved by the Executive Committee. One candidate is running for the office presenting her views through=20 circular letter, the other with the publication of his plan of=20 activities on the net.=20 As the health of the first candidate is in question certain material=20 is delivered to the members in favor of the second candidate=20 presuming a poor health of the first candidate. Then doctors'=20 certificates are produced for the purpose of the election campaign of=20 the first candidate and the Voting Committee actively steps in the=20 campaign in favor of this candidate, declaring her fitness for the=20 office, fairly transcending its authority and acting in the name of=20 the Executive Committee and the General Council.=20 Anton --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, MKR wrote: > > Here is a msg posted on theos-l. >=20 > MKR > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > From: prmoliveira > Date: Apr 29, 2008 7:23 PM > Subject: [theos-l] Election Committee's response to the French TS=20 Board > To: theos-l@yahoogroups.com >=20 >=20 >=20 > Below is the text of the letter the Election Committee of the TS at > Adyar sent, on 18 April 2008, to the General Secretary of the TS in > France, with copies to all General Secretaries of the TS. The letter > also attached copies of the medical certificates issued by Radha > Burnier's doctors. >=20 > Pedro Oliveira >=20 >=20 > "We wish to point out that there are some serious mistakes in the > letter dated 29.3.08 addressed by Maxence Ondet to the members of=20 the > French Section on behalf of the Conseil Directeur of that Section. > She says that she has the duty of informing the French members about > the state of President Radha's health. We wish to draw your=20 attention > to some items of serious consequence. The allegations made by the > French Section Council cast an aspersion on the decision of the > Executive Committee at Adyar taken on 1 March 2008 to include Radha > Burnier's name as well as that of John Algeo as candidates in the > election. It is completely wrong for a Section Council to give views > on this matter when the Executive Committee has taken a decision. >=20 > 1. The French Council says that Radha Burnier suffered a grave AVC > which prevented her from speaking etc. This is not true. She spoke > soon afterwards to Dr. P. Tirumalai, a cardiologist and her personal > physician, and to some others, and her recovery was fairly > fast. >=20 > 2. It is a matter of one's individual reaction to find her=20 Convention > lecture lacking in consistency etc. This view cannot be attributed=20 to > all the General Secretaries who were present. >=20 > 3. It is completely false to state that Radha Burnier accomplishes > her tasks painfully every day with the aid of `patient, devoted and > faithful workers', and that the Editorials of the Adyar Theosophist > are not written by her. We know that she attends to her work as > usual. Some of it is delayed of course, because of the amount of=20 work > she has to attend to. >=20 > 4. It is completely false to speak of `her' letters as being written > by collaborators, of her inconsistent views or to state that some > people are profiting from her condition etc. >=20 > If the General Council and the Executive Committee of the Society=20 had > thought that her mental condition affected the Society's work, they > would have said so and considered her candidature a liability. The > fact that many Sections agreed to nominate her proves her=20 suitability > and not the contrary. >=20 > Attached herewith are two medical certificates. We expect you to=20 take > immediate action to counteract the impression created in the letter > from Maxence Ondet dated 29 March 2008. >=20 > With best wishes, >=20 > Yours fraternally, >=20 > The Election Committee >=20 > (Mary Anderson, Keshwar Dastur, Dr C. V. Agarwal)" >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > From schuller@alpheus.org Wed Apr 30 06:38:30 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: schuller@alpheus.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 60316 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2008 13:38:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m56.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2008 13:38:28 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mailout09.yourhostingaccount.com) (65.254.253.72) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2008 13:38:27 -0000 X-Received: from mailscan21.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.15.21] helo=mailscan21.yourhostingaccount.com) by mailout09.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1JrCVv-0001xi-Au for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:38:27 -0400 X-Received: from impout03.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.55.3] helo=impout03.yourhostingaccount.com) by mailscan21.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1JrCVu-0005Mh-IG for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:38:26 -0400 X-Received: from authsmtp05.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.18.5]) by impout03.yourhostingaccount.com with NO UCE id KpeS1Z00106ZpSa0000000; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:38:26 -0400 X-EN-OrigOutIP: 10.1.18.5 X-EN-IMPSID: KpeS1Z00106ZpSa0000000 X-Received: from c-67-167-92-9.hsd1.il.comcast.net ([67.167.92.9] helo=govert) by authsmtp05.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtpa (Exim) id 1JrCVu-0006nl-2q for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:38:26 -0400 Message-ID: <004901c8ab23$da572b50$0200a8c0@govert> To: References: <00c101c8aa70$e4433d10$0200a8c0@govert> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:39:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1914 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1914 X-EN-UserInfo: 9d45116152675e45aabea1fab1ce7ef3:4846ef675e8dbc9a03569a74cb9c0e08 X-EN-AuthUser: schuller@alpheus.org X-EN-OrigIP: 67.167.92.9 X-EN-OrigHost: c-67-167-92-9.hsd1.il.comcast.net X-Originating-IP: 65.254.253.72 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Govert Schuller" Subject: Re: Theos-World Three Reasons to prefer Algeo over Burnier X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=57527381; y=vm4HM2wsfklaDRNsAbSgk41ZErZD52mUzViq_YTwTZeFsldGs0bVcTE X-Yahoo-Profile: govert_alpheus X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43796 Dear MKR, Just for the record and to dispel some of your hunches. Chris doesn't live or work at Olcott. He is in his last months of being on the TSA Board, having served the maximum 2 terms. I'm sure he'll be back. I encouraged him to start this new blog after the relative succes of his first one "Theosphist: Blogs from the Path" at http://theosophist.wordpress.com/. Parameters are still being worked out. The underlying motivation comes from a certain exposure to modern organizational theory and practice and the realization that the TS could potentialy benefit from studying and applying the new ideas and practices that have been developed. It is a great experiment to facilitate FTS to participate in a reflection on the TS's own institutional structure, which means its policy-making process, its organizational culture, its governance model and concrete policy proposals. He is therefore taking a certain risk and should be recommended for that and his actions should not be interpreted with a priori suspicions as you do. Time and experience will tell, not projections based on past experiences and frustration. Govert ----- Original Message ----- From: "MKR" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 1:44 PM Subject: Re: Theos-World Three Reasons to prefer Algeo over Burnier > Govert: > > There are some built-in problems with a site moderated by Chris. > > He is an officer of TSA and probably he works there as an employee as > well(someone with info can clarify this). > > So there is going to be a lot of subtle direct and indirect pressure put on > him to moderate on posts which may not be in line with official policy or > official political interests. We will never know because moderation > (censoring) takes place prior to postings. > > Also we have not seen anyone from the organization or closely associated > with it, participating in this or other independent forums. Even we have > not seen Chris even though he has been around Olcott for some years. Why are > they shy or is there an unwritten boycott? (Any clairvoyants, who can > help!!!!) > > So if anyone wants to read unvarnished opinions and critical information, > this maillist is the place. > > Also timing of the opening of the forum makes me wonder if the > organizational leaders subtly encouraged him to open the forum so that info > favorable to the organizational leaders or their policies have a place to > display them to Internet users. This is especially so because of the > continued silence of the Algeo nominators which includes the President of > TSA, even after the Radha's doctors' certificates were sent to them. > > > mkr > --------------- > Govert W. Schuller wrote: > > P.S.: > > To Ramadoss 4/28: The forum started by Chris Richardson is semi-moderated. > Posting is restricted to 'authors,' but comments are unrestricted, and it's > mostly in the comments that the real meat is to be found. Chris is a > Theosophist who thinks for himself and his agenda is the improvement of the > organizational culture and governance model at the TSA. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > From Augoeides-222@comcast.net Wed Apr 30 10:24:22 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: augoeides-222@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 81870 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2008 17:24:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2008 17:24:18 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO QMTA06.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net) (76.96.30.56) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2008 17:24:18 -0000 X-Received: from OMTA10.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.28]) by QMTA06.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id KnuV1Z01y0cQ2SLA60SN00; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:24:05 +0000 X-Received: from amailcenter02.comcast.net ([204.127.225.102]) by OMTA10.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id KtQJ1Z0052DAzYU8W00000; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:24:18 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=ioW9akW9SpEA:10 a=EtBuqBCuRpUA:10 a=nG4AUVl/d2FqB4X2cmki4A==:17 a=HqhU5Q3nAAAA:8 a=y0mNFc4F4bgNvVM1SP8A:9 a=9VtmJeU_SkK0-wLczoYA:7 a=I47lQr2791tj5pPWiL3k1_HACRYA:4 a=4cW06Uu68bwA:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=ao4RW71Vw8YA:10 a=v47ZLdibA2YA:10 a=CjxXgO3LAAAA:8 a=G_5s8neSAAAA:8 a=N9qLDheSsqLRmFZwwyoA:9 a=nIxTuN5e5RHj9XzR3mIA:7 a=mfhkT4QwplPq0nQ4fuOB9HmuBeIA:4 a=l1KeHmMDpNIA:10 a=00yqUbYlu1wA:10 a=jeN6Q-uZn2oA:10 a=syfC3iHSy1IA:10 a=37WNUvjkh6kA:10 X-Received: from [67.172.124.83] by amailcenter02.comcast.net; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:24:17 +0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:24:17 +0000 Message-Id: <043020081724.1509.4818AB4100088F01000005E52216525806CDCDCDD39C0A0B070A01099ABE@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 30 2007) X-Authenticated-Sender: QXVnb2VpZGVzLTIyMkBjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 76.96.30.56 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net Subject: Re: Theos-World Three Reasons to prefer Algeo over Burnier X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=314500470; y=7pjtTz4IbtYgME77x7XBPlnuKFnM94cjtViXUIBFLBeD_Q4kHNTP3okcUzr_WoAl X-Yahoo-Profile: sessesgenbarpharanges Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43797 All, Hmmmm, COMMUNICATION is the primary, most fundamental purpose of the Absolute and the Creation which came into existance to facilitate that PURPOSE and GOAL. The Internet is representative of the EXPANSION of COMMUNICATION of MANKIND! Any Suppression of occurance of a more IDEAL COMMUNICATION ENVIRONMENT could be viewed in a most negative light.The Ideal of Freedom is benched upon Free Expression and Communication. Regards, John -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Govert Schuller" Dear MKR, Just for the record and to dispel some of your hunches. Chris doesn't live or work at Olcott. He is in his last months of being on the TSA Board, having served the maximum 2 terms. I'm sure he'll be back. I encouraged him to start this new blog after the relative succes of his first one "Theosphist: Blogs from the Path" at http://theosophist.wordpress.com/. Parameters are still being worked out. The underlying motivation comes from a certain exposure to modern organizational theory and practice and the realization that the TS could potentialy benefit from studying and applying the new ideas and practices that have been developed. It is a great experiment to facilitate FTS to participate in a reflection on the TS's own institutional structure, which means its policy-making process, its organizational culture, its governance model and concrete policy proposals. He is therefore taking a certain risk and should be recommended for that and his actions should not be interpreted with a priori suspicions as you do. Time and experience will tell, not projections based on past experiences and frustration. Govert ----- Original Message ----- From: "MKR" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 1:44 PM Subject: Re: Theos-World Three Reasons to prefer Algeo over Burnier > Govert: > > There are some built-in problems with a site moderated by Chris. > > He is an officer of TSA and probably he works there as an employee as > well(someone with info can clarify this). > > So there is going to be a lot of subtle direct and indirect pressure put on > him to moderate on posts which may not be in line with official policy or > official political interests. We will never know because moderation > (censoring) takes place prior to postings. > > Also we have not seen anyone from the organization or closely associated > with it, participating in this or other independent forums. Even we have > not seen Chris even though he has been around Olcott for some years. Why are > they shy or is there an unwritten boycott? (Any clairvoyants, who can > help!!!!) > > So if anyone wants to read unvarnished opinions and critical information, > this maillist is the place. > > Also timing of the opening of the forum makes me wonder if the > organizational leaders subtly encouraged him to open the forum so that info > favorable to the organizational leaders or their policies have a place to > display them to Internet users. This is especially so because of the > continued silence of the Algeo nominators which includes the President of > TSA, even after the Radha's doctors' certificates were sent to them. > > > mkr > --------------- > Govert W. Schuller wrote: > > P.S.: > > To Ramadoss 4/28: The forum started by Chris Richardson is semi-moderated. > Posting is restricted to 'authors,' but comments are unrestricted, and it's > mostly in the comments that the real meat is to be found. Chris is a > Theosophist who thinks for himself and his agenda is the improvement of the > organizational culture and governance model at the TSA. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Wed Apr 30 10:43:06 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 9318 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2008 17:43:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.94) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2008 17:43:03 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wr-out-0506.google.com) (64.233.184.236) by mta15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2008 17:43:03 -0000 X-Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 58so475620wri.8 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 10:42:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.95.19 with SMTP id s19mr1725651anb.27.1209577379503; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 10:42:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 10:42:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:42:59 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 64.233.184.236 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: TS Elections - Formerly Three Reasons..... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=gk8RGLEQy_i36_vgvgco8mXGnUNDulTHE27r82hwvw8Vys0X_Jk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43798 Well said. Transparency based on high moral and ethical principles/policies combined with two/multi-way communication is the key to success of any spiritual entity. Without them, application of any modern management techniques which work in a commercial environment will not work in a spiritual organization where one is totally free to choose. Anyone who is expecting some "reward" now or in the other world from the organization or its leadership, can easily be silenced and made to toe the official policy line no matter what. That seems to be what is happening too long. Organizers are happy to keep the followers in the dark with the motto "trust me" and don't ask inconvenient questions. We had Internet now for several years, especially in the West. To what extent has it been used to help transparency of policy and multi-way communication? Why has it not happened so far? Is anyone expecting orders from beyond Himalayas telling them what to do or are they too scared they will lose the control they have? All these and many related questions should be raised and discussed and it cannot be done by people who cannot openly speak their minds since there will be repercussions from the organizations, which in some cases would affect even their livelihood. Internet is here to stay. This may be the last election where members would continue to be in the dark. By the time next election is up, every member will have access to Internet and no one will be able to hide anything that is going on. mkr On 4/30/08, Augoeides-222@comcast.net wrote: > > All, > Hmmmm, COMMUNICATION is the primary, most fundamental purpose of the > Absolute and the Creation which came into existance to facilitate that > PURPOSE and GOAL. The Internet is representative of the EXPANSION of > COMMUNICATION of MANKIND! Any Suppression of occurance of a more IDEAL > COMMUNICATION ENVIRONMENT could be viewed in a most negative light.The Ideal > of Freedom is benched upon Free Expression and Communication. > Regards, > John > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: "Govert Schuller" > > Dear MKR, > > Just for the record and to dispel some of your hunches. > > Chris doesn't live or work at Olcott. He is in his last months of being on > the TSA Board, having served the maximum 2 terms. I'm sure he'll be back. > > I encouraged him to start this new blog after the relative succes of his > first one "Theosphist: Blogs from the Path" at > http://theosophist.wordpress.com/. Parameters are still being worked out. > > The underlying motivation comes from a certain exposure to modern > organizational theory and practice and the realization that the TS could > potentialy benefit from studying and applying the new ideas and practices > that have been developed. > > It is a great experiment to facilitate FTS to participate in a reflection > on > the TS's own institutional structure, which means its policy-making > process, > its organizational culture, its governance model and concrete policy > proposals. > > He is therefore taking a certain risk and should be recommended for that > and > his actions should not be interpreted with a priori suspicions as you do. > Time and experience will tell, not projections based on past experiences > and > frustration. > > Govert > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MKR" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 1:44 PM > Subject: Re: Theos-World Three Reasons to prefer Algeo over Burnier > > > Govert: > > > > There are some built-in problems with a site moderated by Chris. > > > > He is an officer of TSA and probably he works there as an employee as > > well(someone with info can clarify this). > > > > So there is going to be a lot of subtle direct and indirect pressure put > on > > him to moderate on posts which may not be in line with official policy > or > > official political interests. We will never know because moderation > > (censoring) takes place prior to postings. > > > > Also we have not seen anyone from the organization or closely associated > > with it, participating in this or other independent forums. Even we have > > not seen Chris even though he has been around Olcott for some years. Why > are > > they shy or is there an unwritten boycott? (Any clairvoyants, who can > > help!!!!) > > > > So if anyone wants to read unvarnished opinions and critical > information, > > this maillist is the place. > > > > Also timing of the opening of the forum makes me wonder if the > > organizational leaders subtly encouraged him to open the forum so that > info > > favorable to the organizational leaders or their policies have a place > to > > display them to Internet users. This is especially so because of the > > continued silence of the Algeo nominators which includes the President > of > > TSA, even after the Radha's doctors' certificates were sent to them. > > > > > > mkr > > --------------- > > Govert W. Schuller wrote: > > > > P.S.: > > > > To Ramadoss 4/28: The forum started by Chris Richardson is > semi-moderated. > > Posting is restricted to 'authors,' but comments are unrestricted, and > it's > > mostly in the comments that the real meat is to be found. Chris is a > > Theosophist who thinks for himself and his agenda is the improvement of > the > > organizational culture and governance model at the TSA. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Wed Apr 30 16:20:32 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 8589 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2008 23:20:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2008 23:20:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.244) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2008 23:20:28 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id d18so220758and.130 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:20:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.239.11 with SMTP id m11mr2237087anh.158.1209597625309; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:20:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:20:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 18:20:25 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.244 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS Elections - Ballot Received & Update X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=ctmbfIJ_ldPss1P_pRn0auopXw1JHCH5mb8hcm9onrYMJEAyrl0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43799 Today I received the ballot. After marking the choice, the ballot should reach national hq by May 30. So I am not in a hurry to send it out. Has anyone heard anything from the National President? Probably not. Not disclosing the info that contradicts the info presented in the mailed letters suggesting we all vote for Algeo because of poor mental and physical health of Radha Burnier, works to the advantage of the candidate the President is rooting for. On wonders why not make all available info related to health condition of Radha Burnier available quickly so that the members can use their commonsense and intelligence to make a choice. What are we afraid of true facts. Truth stands on its own feet and does not need any crutches or supporters. Silence is golden in some cases. Attorneys tell you keep your mouth shut. What you say can and will be used against you. Mafia has a code of silence. Occultists have a code of silence. But leaders, especially Theosophical ones have a heavy duty to keep their members fully and truthfully informed so that they can work together for the furtherance of theosophy and TS. What I understand is that General Secretaries who do not want to talk to us on Internet, none has talked since start of Kaliyuga, are feverishly exchanging message via e-mail between themselves at our cost -- yes we, the members pay for their internet service and computers. Are they coordinating their strategy directed to make sure their candidate wins at any cost; even at the cost of misleading their members with inaccurate information. And this happening in an organization which is supposed to operate with a very high moral and ethical standards and the motto of the TS is "THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN TRUTH". mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Wed Apr 30 16:29:54 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 42516 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2008 23:29:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.97) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2008 23:29:53 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m24.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.5) by mta18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2008 23:29:53 -0000 X-Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id r.c5f.2efb8dcb (34920) for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:29:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Received: from WEBMAIL-MC04 (webmail-mc04.webmail.aol.com [64.12.170.81]) by cia-da03.mx.aol.com (v121.5) with ESMTP id MAILCIADA035-8868481900eb350; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:29:47 -0400 References: To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:29:47 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 76.199.151.243 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 36240-STANDARD X-Received: from 76.199.151.243 by WEBMAIL-MC04.sysops.aol.com (64.12.170.81) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:29:47 -0400 Message-Id: <8CA79313640BC7B-370-2F6A@WEBMAIL-MC04.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.5 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Elections - Ballot Received & Update X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=A2h0fZtQyoBQiR41cZcDFOZuY6v6YGjtl0yddrKsWYfvDekbaQ X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43800 To know, to dare, to will, to keep silent and to run for office. Chuck the Heretic http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano -----Original Message----- From: MKR To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; theos-L@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 6:20 pm Subject: Theos-World TS Elections - Ballot Received & Update Today I received the ballot. After marking the choice, the ballot should reach national hq by May 30. So I am not in a hurry to send it out. Has anyone heard anything from the National President? Probably not. Not disclosing the info that contradicts the info presented in the mailed letters suggesting we all vote for Algeo because of poor mental and physical health of Radha Burnier, works to the advantage of the candidate the President is rooting for. On wonders why not make all available info related to health condition of Radha Burnier available quickly so that the members can use their commonsense and intelligence to make a choice. What are we afraid of true facts. Truth stands on its own feet and does not need any crutches or supporters. Silence is golden in some cases. Attorneys tell you keep your mouth shut. What you say can and will be used against you. Mafia has a code of silence. Occultists have a code of silence. But leaders, especially Theosophical ones have a heavy duty to keep their members fully and truthfully informed so that they can work together for the furtherance of theosophy and TS. What I understand is that General Secretaries who do not want to talk to us on Internet, none has talked since start of Kaliyuga, are feverishly exchanging message via e-mail between themselves at our cost -- yes we, the members pay for their internet service and computers. Are they coordinating their strategy directed to make sure their candidate wins at any cost; even at the cost of misleading their members with inaccurate information. And this happening in an organization which is supposed to operate with a very high moral and ethical standards and the motto of the TS is "THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN TRUTH". mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Wed Apr 30 16:30:59 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 52989 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2008 23:30:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m53.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Apr 2008 23:30:58 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO wx-out-0506.google.com) (66.249.82.229) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2008 23:30:57 -0000 X-Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id h27so810843wxd.3 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:30:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.251.5 with SMTP id y5mr2261566anh.126.1209598254224; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:30:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:30:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 18:30:54 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <8CA79313640BC7B-370-2F6A@WEBMAIL-MC04.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8CA79313640BC7B-370-2F6A@WEBMAIL-MC04.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: 66.249.82.229 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:4:8:0:0 From: MKR Subject: Re: Theos-World TS Elections - Ballot Received & Update X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=RAOuOG4PVxsaI2a3njfHfP8_RuoKPJ3L1oI_y386c1G5bVu0ZP4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43801 You should copyright it, Chuck. mkr On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 6:29 PM, wrote: > To know, to dare, to will, to keep silent and to run for office. > > Chuck the Heretic > > http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano > > -----Original Message----- > From: MKR > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ; > theos-L@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 6:20 pm > Subject: Theos-World TS Elections - Ballot Received & Update > > Today I received the ballot. After marking the choice, the ballot should > reach national hq by May 30. So I am not in a hurry to send it out. > > Has anyone heard anything from the National President? Probably not. Not > disclosing the info that contradicts the info presented in the mailed > letters suggesting we all vote for Algeo because of poor mental and > physical > health of Radha Burnier, works to the advantage of the candidate the > President is rooting for. On wonders why not make all available info > related > to health condition of Radha Burnier available quickly so that the members > can use their commonsense and intelligence to make a choice. What are we > afraid of true facts. Truth stands on its own feet and does not need any > crutches or supporters. > > Silence is golden in some cases. Attorneys tell you keep your mouth shut. > What you say can and will be used against you. Mafia has a code of > silence. > Occultists have a code of silence. But leaders, especially Theosophical > ones have a heavy duty to keep their members fully and truthfully informed > so that they can work together for the furtherance of theosophy and TS. > > What I understand is that General Secretaries who do not want to talk to > us > on Internet, none has talked since start of Kaliyuga, are feverishly > exchanging message via e-mail between themselves at our cost -- yes we, > the > members pay for their internet service and computers. Are they > coordinating > their strategy directed to make sure their candidate wins at any cost; > even > at the cost of misleading their members with inaccurate information. And > this happening in an organization which is supposed to operate with a very > high moral and ethical standards and the motto of the TS is "THERE IS NO > RELIGION HIGHER THAN TRUTH". > > mkr > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Wed Apr 30 17:17:30 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 18907 invoked from network); 1 May 2008 00:17:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.95) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2008 00:17:29 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.250) by mta16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2008 00:17:29 -0000 X-Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id d33so558408and.87 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:17:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.194.5 with SMTP id r5mr2287850anf.146.1209601048578; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:17:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.100.168.10 with HTTP; Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:17:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:17:28 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-L@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.250 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: MKR Subject: TS Elections - Kim Dieu X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636; y=njFyofJUhC8-BUi88jmCgDVGTJmTqY6ifZG8nhqRzYSVc63SK7o Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43802 I learnt that Kim Dieu, President of European Federation who has travelled far and wide and given lectures in Europe and Canada and even at the Krotono Institute of Theosophy had made some comments in a letter/msg sent to several people regarding the mental and physical fitness of Radha Burnier to be reelected as President. I was intrigued by what I heard and hence sent her two e-mail messages asking her to comment on her comments. She has not responded for days. Either she could have explained or if they are incorrect, she could have corrected. She has done neither. Now it looks like she has joined the gang of other GS supporters of Algeo, hoping with time and silence and keeping gullible members in the dark about true facts of Radha's good health in the dark will achieve their goals. End seems to justify the means. For an organization which is supposed to uphold high standards of morality and justice, humble novices will find it totally confusing. TS has its motto -- THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN TRUTH and these actions cannot but harm the TS and TM in the long run. mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Wed Apr 30 22:15:38 2008 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Received: (qmail 27787 invoked from network); 1 May 2008 05:15:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (66.218.67.96) by m55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 May 2008 05:15:35 -0000 X-Received: from unknown (HELO mx01.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.11) by mta17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2008 05:15:34 -0000 X-Received: from 56341115.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.17.21] helo=khidr) by mx01.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1JrR8n-0001Kn-1Y for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 01 May 2008 07:15:34 +0200 Message-ID: <004901c8ab4a$7025e380$15113456@khidr> To: References: Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 07:15:57 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.11 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0:0 From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Elections - Formerly Three Reasons..... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=kUvqq-kAKLc0tA-jFpy9aXZoyFoF8jTnrERn5YsGE1ay X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Message-Num: 43803 MKR wrote: "We had Internet now for several years, especially in the West. To what extent has it been used to help transparency of policy and multi-way communication? Why has it not happened so far? Is anyone expecting orders from beyond Himalayas telling them what to do or are they too scared they will lose the control they have?" "Internet is here to stay. This may be the last election where members would continue to be in the dark. " M. Sufilight says: I would careful with the view, that the "Internet is here to stay". The teachings of theosophy as well as Bhagavad Gita requires that you control your sense and organs - ", yet pondering with his heart upon objects of sense, is called a false pietist of bewildered soul. But he who having subdued all his passions performeth with his active faculties all the duties of life, unconcerned as to their result, is to be esteemed. Do thou perform the proper actions: action is superior to inaction. The journey of thy mortal frame cannot be accomplished by inaction. All actions performed other than as sacrifice unto God make the actor bound by action. Abandon, then, O son of Kunti, all selfish motives, and in action perform thy duty for him alone. " (Bhagavad Gita, III - by W. Q. Judge) " Sequestered should he sit, Steadfastly meditating, solitary, His thoughts controlled, his passions laid away, Quit of belongings. In a fair, still spot Having his fixed abode, -- not too much raised, Nor yet too low, -- let him abide, his goods A cloth, a deerskin, and the Kusa-grass. There, setting hard his mind upon The One, Restraining heart and senses, silent, calm, Let him accomplish Yoga, and achieve Pureness of soul, holding immovable Body and neck and head, his gaze absorbed Upon his nose-end, rapt from all around, Tranquil in spirit, free of fear, intent Upon his Brahmacharya vow, devout, Musing on Me, lost in the thought of Me. That Yogin, so devoted, so controlled, Comes to the peace beyond, -- My peace, the peace Of high Nirvana!" (THE SONG CELESTIAL - Translated by Sir Edwin Arnold) http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/ctg/bhaggita.htm M. Sufilight ----- Original Message ----- From: MKR To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 7:42 PM Subject: Theos-World Re: TS Elections - Formerly Three Reasons..... Well said. Transparency based on high moral and ethical principles/policies combined with two/multi-way communication is the key to success of any spiritual entity. Without them, application of any modern management techniques which work in a commercial environment will not work in a spiritual organization where one is totally free to choose. Anyone who is expecting some "reward" now or in the other world from the organization or its leadership, can easily be silenced and made to toe the official policy line no matter what. That seems to be what is happening too long. Organizers are happy to keep the followers in the dark with the motto "trust me" and don't ask inconvenient questions. We had Internet now for several years, especially in the West. To what extent has it been used to help transparency of policy and multi-way communication? Why has it not happened so far? Is anyone expecting orders from beyond Himalayas telling them what to do or are they too scared they will lose the control they have? All these and many related questions should be raised and discussed and it cannot be done by people who cannot openly speak their minds since there will be repercussions from the organizations, which in some cases would affect even their livelihood. Internet is here to stay. This may be the last election where members would continue to be in the dark. By the time next election is up, every member will have access to Internet and no one will be able to hide anything that is going on. mkr On 4/30/08, Augoeides-222@comcast.net wrote: > > All, > Hmmmm, COMMUNICATION is the primary, most fundamental purpose of the > Absolute and the Creation which came into existance to facilitate that > PURPOSE and GOAL. The Internet is representative of the EXPANSION of > COMMUNICATION of MANKIND! Any Suppression of occurance of a more IDEAL > COMMUNICATION ENVIRONMENT could be viewed in a most negative light.The Ideal > of Freedom is benched upon Free Expression and Communication. > Regards, > John > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: "Govert Schuller" > > Dear MKR, > > Just for the record and to dispel some of your hunches. > > Chris doesn't live or work at Olcott. He is in his last months of being on > the TSA Board, having served the maximum 2 terms. I'm sure he'll be back. > > I encouraged him to start this new blog after the relative succes of his > first one "Theosphist: Blogs from the Path" at > http://theosophist.wordpress.com/. Parameters are still being worked out. > > The underlying motivation comes from a certain exposure to modern > organizational theory and practice and the realization that the TS could > potentialy benefit from studying and applying the new ideas and practices > that have been developed. > > It is a great experiment to facilitate FTS to participate in a reflection > on > the TS's own institutional structure, which means its policy-making > process, > its organizational culture, its governance model and concrete policy > proposals. > > He is therefore taking a certain risk and should be recommended for that > and > his actions should not be interpreted with a priori suspicions as you do. > Time and experience will tell, not projections based on past experiences > and > frustration. > > Govert > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MKR" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 1:44 PM > Subject: Re: Theos-World Three Reasons to prefer Algeo over Burnier > > > Govert: > > > > There are some built-in problems with a site moderated by Chris. > > > > He is an officer of TSA and probably he works there as an employee as > > well(someone with info can clarify this). > > > > So there is going to be a lot of subtle direct and indirect pressure put > on > > him to moderate on posts which may not be in line with official policy > or > > official political interests. We will never know because moderation > > (censoring) takes place prior to postings. > > > > Also we have not seen anyone from the organization or closely associated > > with it, participating in this or other independent forums. Even we have > > not seen Chris even though he has been around Olcott for some years. Why > are > > they shy or is there an unwritten boycott? (Any clairvoyants, who can > > help!!!!) > > > > So if anyone wants to read unvarnished opinions and critical > information, > > this maillist is the place. > > > > Also timing of the opening of the forum makes me wonder if the > > organizational leaders subtly encouraged him to open the forum so that > info > > favorable to the organizational leaders or their policies have a place > to > > display them to Internet users. This is especially so because of the > > continued silence of the Algeo nominators which includes the President > of > > TSA, even after the Radha's doctors' certificates were sent to them. > > > > > > mkr > > --------------- > > Govert W. Schuller wrote: > > > > P.S.: > > > > To Ramadoss 4/28: The forum started by Chris Richardson is > semi-moderated. > > Posting is restricted to 'authors,' but comments are unrestricted, and > it's > > mostly in the comments that the real meat is to be found. Chris is a > > Theosophist who thinks for himself and his agenda is the improvement of > the > > organizational culture and governance model at the TSA. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]