From AnandGholap@AnandGholap.org Sun Jan 01 01:32:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: AnandGholap@AnandGholap.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4057 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 09:32:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 09:32:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.38) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 09:32:49 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2006 09:32:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by mailer2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2006 09:32:45 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 09:32:45 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20060101073845.58037.qmail@web52107.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.38 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 219.91.152.95 From: "Anand Gholap" Subject: Re: Forget HPB & her writing, consider Besant as founder & move on X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=187713566; y=JtpM5RU2SdTVFsfYCBhKzLqiIUDPlkk4HGufNAOT9f9VqWkp4JGmVXE X-Yahoo-Profile: anandgholap_net > because of their insistence on the paranormal, and kaotowing to=20 >public opinion on a belief that we can contact our loved ones, etc. > Cass > Paranormal has always been nature of Theosophy. Modern Theosophy=20 mostly deals with phenomena of higher planes and rules of those=20 planes. Science deals with laws of physical plane whereas modern=20 Theosophy gives us knowledge of higher planes. Of course we can=20 contact loved ones. One can simply send e-mail to his/her loved one=20 and contact him/her. =20 > Anand Gholap wrote: > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "danielhcaldwell"=20 > wrote: > > > > Anand, you write: > >=20 > > "her [HPB's] writing is such that sect or cult > > automatically forms among her students..." > >=20 > > What does this really mean? > >=20 > This is a good question. Blavatsky did not have high opinion about=20 > herself and her writing. She did not want her writing to become=20 cause=20 > of cult or sect. She expressly wrote against dogma and denied any=20 > absolute authority. So her intention was right. But problem is she=20 > wrote in such style that whoever reads it, studies it becomes=20 dogmatic,=20 > fundamentalist even fanatic. Her intentions were good but=20 unfortunately=20 > she could not write in proper manner which would have avoided=20 dogma,=20 > sect. Her students automatically become so. Neither Blavatsky not=20 > students want to become dogmatic but that happens automatically=20 when=20 > one studies writing of Blavatsky. And later it becomes very=20 difficult=20 > for students to realize that they have become dogmatic and even if=20 they=20 > realize, they can't change their minds easily. Mental machinery=20 gets so=20 > damaged that person can't get out of dogma easily.=20 >=20 > Anand Gholap >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Yahoo! Groups Links >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20=20=20 >=20 >=20 >=20=09=09 > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun Jan 01 03:11:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69832 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 11:11:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 11:11:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth02.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.62) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 11:11:26 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth02.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Et16r-0002A6-Sy; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 06:10:46 -0500 To: Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 03:10:35 -0800 Message-ID: <00a901c60ec4$00b6b2b0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High In-Reply-To: X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec790e849d8cac8152fad143e8c92aba9c81350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.62 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: Theos-World Kindly: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=f7_WbnN_e9StmojmsmYFUiOae78SWZkgECQsAkpKfKtmCw X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/1/2006 2:52 AM Dear Alaya and John: I am not sure about the question of HPB's opinion of Mrs. Kingsford.=20=20 Can you let us have an actual reference ? Book ? Page ?=20 Were there any other references than=20 LBS -- or LETTERS OF BLAVATSKY TO SINNETT. ( see p. 22 ) I am focused more on the philosophy of THEOSOPHY than on people who approached, supported, or distorted it. The history of the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY (and people involved) is well covered in the documentary history book:=20 THE HISTORY OF THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY (1875-1950)=20 [Theosophy Company, Los Angeles ] What we can find about this lady comes mainly from references in=20 MAHATMA LETTERS ( where ? ) and=20=20 LBS -- or LETTERS OF BLAVATSKY TO SINNETT. ( see p. 22 ) .Best wishes for 2006. Dallas =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: Alaya Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 7:30 AM To:=20 Subject: Re: Kindly: the question is for Dallas but I'll answer LBS is letters of Blavatsky to Sinnett and actually, HPB didn't have A.Kindsford in high steem... not at all.. but Masters did... A. K was a bit vain, and called too much attention over herself.. and she also thought that the wisdom of the orient was not good and she didn't believe in Masters... those are the main reasons HPB didn't like her.. However, she had also very good qualities, and since the Masters don't want an adoration of themselves and are not interested in personalities, they didn't care if she didn't believe on them.. They just wanted her to do a good job, and she had a great intuition, contact with angels, and her fight for the animal rights and vegetarianismo called the Chohan's attention. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DTB I would like references for these statements please. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, samblo@c... wrote: Dallas, I have a question; =20 H.P.B. did not have a very high opinion of Mrs. Kingsford. According to one letter from H.P.B. to Sinnett (LBS, p. 22) =20 =20 1. what is "LBS, p.22"? 2. Who is it that states HPB did not have a high opinion of Anna Bonus=20 Kingsford? I have read a diametrically opposite history as regards that. =20 John =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D John also wrote: Alaya, Thanks for your comments and response as your view in the topic. Yes, I= =20 put the question to Dallas but in a forum all can answer to present a wide= =20 spectra of considerations they hold. Ms. Kingsford attempted to meet HPB on several occasions traveling to=20 London in the effort. On each occasion she was turned back by HPB's Secretary, but=20 there came a time when HPB heard her in the next room and told the Secretar= y to let her pass, when Ms Kingsford was before her HPB told her secretary wh= y haven't you let her pass before this?=20 HPB commented that she perceived an=20 extremely fine inner organization in the subtle bodies of Ms Kingsford and held a=20 high opinion of her at that time.=20 I also seem to remember that Ms. Kingsford=20 was along with Alice Leighton Cleaver one of the few who were the very firs= t personal Esoteric Section students directly instructed by HPB. John =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D From ringding@online.de Sun Jan 01 03:50:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26378 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 11:50:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 11:50:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.171) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 11:50:25 -0000 Received: from [84.191.137.114] (helo=captain70e702a) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu2) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKwtQ-1Et1ik1Bno-0000fN; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 12:49:54 +0100 Message-ID: <009001c60ec9$a34dfb50$152ca8c0@captain70e702a> To: References: <00a901c60ec4$00b6b2b0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 12:50:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:d066391b47e67c594ae06bf3d758d7eb X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.171 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World Kindly: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=224426186; y=1PtAHKQukDygFwvNPMJxGsoQcHOVlPg1ag_GCGDOxX2fBihoisTYX84m3Q X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer =>The history of the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY (and people involved) is well covered in the documentary history book: THE HISTORY OF THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY (1875-1950) [Theosophy Company, Los Angeles ] But that counts only for the EXOTERIC part of the Theosophical Movement. The author(s) reject, twist, intermix, misunderstand totally the ESOTERIC aspects of the TM, esp. the Guruparampara, the inner and outer messengers, etc. If you consider this in your study, the book can be of much worth. But do you really study a Hinayana text to get an idea of the Bodhisattva ideal and what Avataras are? Frank From ringding@online.de Sun Jan 01 03:56:34 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88045 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 11:56:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 11:56:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.186) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 11:56:33 -0000 Received: from [84.191.137.114] (helo=captain70e702a) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu1) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKwpI-1Et1pA3MfN-00079M; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 12:56:33 +0100 Message-ID: <00ae01c60eca$8fcbab30$152ca8c0@captain70e702a> To: References: <20a.f7c21eb.30d8b17b@aol.com> Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 12:57:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:d066391b47e67c594ae06bf3d758d7eb X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.186 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World Blavatsky's writing was the cause of . . . the TS (that's the truth) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=224426186; y=gzjMkKX4gMH7M738E5RQ7Xlazj3wUrPfS9TTXfy00m2IR-dihUYRxhwQyA X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer >Why would Blavatsky (if she could even have >such control after death -- which she denied was possible) have played into your hands and allowed you to send Wrong. HPB never denied nirmanakaya-work after physical death. Seems, many ULT'ers deny the higher teachings and stick on exoteric books only. Seems GdeP is right, when he critiziced (in his "Dialogues") that ULT'ers are book-worshippers. They take the dead-letter and kill the spirit and fanatical persecute everyone who loves the spirit of HPB, claiming it is they who love HPB. Frank From ringding@online.de Sun Jan 01 03:57:03 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44440 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 11:57:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 11:57:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.186) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 11:57:03 -0000 Received: from [84.191.137.114] (helo=captain70e702a) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu1) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKwpI-1Et1p9494t-00079M; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 12:56:32 +0100 Message-ID: <00ad01c60eca$8f487170$152ca8c0@captain70e702a> To: References: Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 12:54:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:d066391b47e67c594ae06bf3d758d7eb X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.186 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Forget HPB & her writing, consider Besant as founder & move on X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=224426186; y=3FKi0XF8obet7s5kui6iFkCcEEKmA3jhuKC0dJmKqsZQ1rycdlrctVXrVQ X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer =>Paranormal has always been nature of Theosophy. Modern Theosophy mostly deals with phenomena of higher planes and rules of those planes. Anand, you've got it right now! But the pseudo-Theosophy must be excluded from that as the writings of WC deal mostly with phenomena of lower planes: the astral world, which is even under the physical plane. He deals also with the lower siddhis which leads to illusion, self hypnosis, cant, will to power and is in opposite to the path of compassion which HPB promoted. Frank From ringding@online.de Sun Jan 01 03:57:05 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 78125 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 11:57:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 11:57:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.188) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 11:57:04 -0000 Received: from [84.191.137.114] (helo=captain70e702a) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu1) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKwpI-1Et1pB1y2S-00079M; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 12:56:34 +0100 Message-ID: <00af01c60eca$90264e50$152ca8c0@captain70e702a> To: References: <20a.f7c21eb.30d8b17b@aol.com> <001001c60508$2c3f6ff0$4b25c050@your904q9zk0ar> Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 12:57:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:d066391b47e67c594ae06bf3d758d7eb X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.188 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World Blavatsky's writing was the cause of . . . the TS (that's the truth) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=224426186; y=th98j8AoiUxOJsUzT7gBDy09KsB1jkXNpaJwVOG-8mlB1AauDthcHIIkgQ X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer >to understand. It is our duty to make him a >Theosophist. No. We do not missionize. It is our only duty to defend theosophy and HPB. No one else except he himself can make a theosophist of him, even not a Buddha or a Mahatma could do that for him. Theosophy is the self-knowledge of the divine in man, as Hartmann said. Frank From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun Jan 01 04:51:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87988 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 12:51:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 12:51:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth02.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.62) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 12:51:12 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth02.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Et2g1-0002kL-AH; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 07:51:10 -0500 To: Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 04:50:56 -0800 Message-ID: <00b401c60ed2$06a7a950$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High In-Reply-To: X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec796b897b7b3b45e2136643e71504bdde0c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.62 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE Lord's Prayer X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=pqYn7Sa2ps4RRrSPwPoSmjlLAZ6irLvTi2S2b5R9skloVg X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1/1/2006 3:23 AM QUESTIONS: 1 I have often wondered why the Lord's Prayer contains the words, "and lead us not into temptation." Why would the Lord lead us into temptation, or "temporary sensation," as some have called it. Is this the Almighty's way of testing us in order that our consciousness be strenghthened? 2 Fear seems to be a "devil" amongst us; fear of "death," illness, poverty, other people, etc. ad nauseum. Hence constant wars within and without ourselves, it would seem. Why is this? Is it our failure to "tune-in" to Truth? -------------------------------------- Dear L R and Friends: Others have also wondered on the same topics - see: some notes below. Generally: In establishing a church, or a 'faith,' and in making it exclusive, such illogical statements were introduced and imposed. [ Craftiness takes advantage of ignorance and mental laziness by establishing "fear-factors," and denying the right and power of the individual to inquire. ] All "religions" are money-making and power-controlling contrivances - the priests cannot prove their claims, specially that of securing special attention (like remission of punishment from any sin) from "God." [Why should - or how can -- "God" break his own just and fair Laws ? ] Logic says they are not reasonable or tenable. The attributes given to God or Deity appear to be three principal ones: 1 OMNIPRESENCE is universally present - no exceptions 2 OMNISCIENCE knows and remembers all 3 OMNIPOTENCE establishes and is sensitive to all actions and relations Therefore: 1 God is present in each of us as well as in every atom everywhere [It is SPIRIT.] -- GOD IS THE UNIVERSE. Hence: Brotherhood is the invariable rule. If it is "God" that permits other religions to exist - how is it possible for the priests of any one religion to claim other religions are "false?" Or that proselyting or coercion should take place ? THEOSOPHY says: None of the illimitable and uncountable components {life-atoms}of the Universe are any younger or older than any other. They are all equally immortals. Some, by self-effort, progress faster and assume greater responsibilities under strict and just, fair Universal Law. These are the Prophets, Sages, Rishis, Avatars, Buddhas, etc. [ An analysis of all religions shows that their basic ethics and moral demands are similar.] Briefly: 1 Considering OMNIPRESENCE: all life-atoms (Monads) are immortals. Bodies and forms change, wear out and "die," but the indwelling INTELLIGENCE (Mind - Soul -- SPIRIT) survives and "reincarnates." It is permanent. Each carries internally the memory of its past, and intellectually (as a mind-being) is aware of the illimitable potential of its future. Wisdom is the capacity of embracing every aspect of Nature (the Universe) and willingly, consciously participating in assisting the growth of those brother-minds which are on the same pilgrimage as it is. Nature is thus composed of several 'levels' of active intelligences that have become (by self-regulated and impersonal effort -- applied virtue) impartial and wise 'agents.' These divisions are: The "sub-human." [Non-self-conscious - as the 'atoms' and the 'lower kingdoms' are.] The "human," each one with an independent consciousness and a "free-will." [Mind-beings.] The "super-human" [Masters of Wisdom] with universal Self-Consciousness - and access to all the memories and records of the past - including primordial and secondary evolution. Incapable of harming anyone or anything. All 'selfishness' eliminated. 2 God is KARMA - and, as the Universe is OMNISCIENT, it records all motives for thoughts, words and deeds. Being universally sensitive, all the relationships between components are automatically noted and the "virtues" [which are educative and not punitive] are applied - each actor, at whatever level of intelligence, receives a response tailored to its capacity to learn and improve. Universal law preserves the rights and responsibilities of all individuals - it is universally protective. Its objective is to improve (spiritualize) every component life-atom (Monad). There are no "secrets" possible in our real Universe or on Earth. Every "atom" is a witness to our motives and actions. 3 OMNIPOTENCE is the capacity to respond impartially to any and all changes in the ethico-moral atmosphere of any of its milliards of components, and adjust responses so that they are educative and not punitive. For this it needs impersonal and morally just "agents." These are the Sages, the Wise, the Prophets, Avatars, Buddhas, etc.. This condition is the destiny of all men (and eventually of every life-atom) as they accelerate their own future by self determination and will. Every human intelligence (mind-soul-spirit) is engaged in this process. It is accelerated as individual Monads choose self-consciously (beginning now) to learn more of their inheritance, of their potentials and capacity, and of the workings and purpose of the Universe they (and all of us) live in. We are all fellow pilgrims on the Path of Life. Hope, not fear, is the true master. Perfection for all lies ahead. This is what THEOSOPHY observes in Nature and teaches. It asks to be considered. Best wishes for 2006 Dallas ========================= -----Original Message----- From: L.R. Andrews Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 6:12 AM To: Subject: Lord's Prayer LR I have often wondered why the Lord's Prayer contains the words, "and lead us not into temptation." Why would the Lord lead us into temptation, or "temporary sensation," as some have called it. Is this the Almighty's way of testing us in order that our consciousness be strenghthened? Thanks for your feedback. -------------------------------------------------------- DTB What kind of a 'just God' would torture its subjects ? Impossible! No just and true benevolence is to be sensed in this. This is a priestly construction. Jesus never taught this. Study church history - when was this "prayer" adopted? Why ? -------------------------------------------------------- LR Fear seems to be a "devil" amongst us; fear of "death," illness, poverty, other people, etc. ad nauseum. Hence constant wars within and without ourselves, it would seem. Why is this? Is it our failure to "tune-in" to Truth? ---------------------------------------------------------- DTB Fear is based on ignorance and presumed knowledge. Craftiness and slyness are being used to keep the masses ignorant pliable and reasonably satisfied. Study ISIS UNVEILED on Theology to secure an understanding of this. Thy states as above that man is a free agent, and has to learn how to use his mind. The Universe is just, honest and fair --- and not the reverse. There is no "PERSONAL GOD." There is a deific presence ["Perfection"] which is equally diffused everywhere - our minds find difficulty in understanding this because we tend to limit ourselves to our perceptive senses - and the Universe is so vast we can only imagine an unlimited situation. And there is no "PERSONAL DEVIL" per se. Let us then visualize "God" (the good, the true and the beautiful) as indwelling in us -- as it is in all other beings and humans. Let then act as brothers to all - no exceptions. Look for and study the laws of brotherhood and co-existence, and 'give and take.' DTB ------------------------------------------------------------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun Jan 01 05:08:49 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12874 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 13:08:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 13:08:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth02.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.62) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 13:08:48 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth02.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Et2x5-00064B-1z; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 08:08:47 -0500 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 05:08:36 -0800 Message-ID: <00c101c60ed4$7dc18d10$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec796721e8f7b51a63df64f4198d7eb5fb35350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.62 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RELIGIOUS INCONSISTENCIES X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=2UFxn32HhSes36U-UKGWktjMtzJPYW9jtBqp3yDiNsbmCA X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/1/2006 3:23 AM Re: RELIGIOUS INCONSISTENCIES =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 QUESTIONS: =A0 =A0 1=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 I have often wondered why the Lord's Prayer co= ntains the words, "AND LEAD US NOT INTO TEMPTATION."=20 Why would the Lord lead us into temptation, or "temporary sensation," as some have called it. Is this the Almighty's way of testing us in order that our consciousness be strenghthened?=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0 2=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 FEAR SEEMS TO BE A "DEVIL" AMONGST US; fear o= f "death," illness, poverty, other people, etc. ad nauseum. Hence constant wars within and without ourselves, it would seem. Why is this? Is it our failure to "tune-in" to Truth? =A0 -------------------------------------- =A0 =A0 Dear L R and Friends: =A0 =A0 Others have also wondered on the same topics =96 see:=A0 some notes below. =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Generally:=A0=20 =A0 In establishing a church, or a =91faith,=92 =A0and in making it exclusive, = such illogical statements were introduced and imposed.=A0 [ Craftiness takes advantage of ignorance and mental laziness by establishing =93fear-factors,= =94 and denying the right and power of the individual to inquire. ]=A0=20 =A0 All =93religions=94 are money-making and power-controlling contrivances =96= the priests cannot prove their claims, specially that of securing special attention (like remission of punishment from any sin) =A0from =93God.=94 [W= hy should =96 or how can -- =A0=93God=94 break his own just and fair Laws ? ] =A0 Logic says they are not reasonable or tenable. =A0 =A0 The attributes given to God or Deity appear to be three principal ones: =A0 =A0 1=A0 OMNIPRESENCE=A0=A0=A0 is universally present =96 no exceptions =A0 2=A0 OMNISCIENCE=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 knows and remembers all =A0 3=A0 OMNIPOTENCE=A0=A0=A0=A0 establishes and is sensitive to all actions an= d relations =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Therefore: =A0 =A0 1=A0 God is present in each of us as well as in every atom everywhere =A0[I= t is SPIRIT.] =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 -- GOD IS THE UNIVERSE.=A0 =A0=A0Hence:= =A0 Brotherhood is the invariable rule. =A0 If it is =93God=94 that permits other religions to exist =96 how is it poss= ible for the priests of any one religion to claim other religions are =93false?.= =94 =A0Or that proselyting or coercion should take place? =A0 =A0 THEOSOPHY says: =A0 None of the illimitable and uncountable components {life-atoms}of the Universe are any younger or older than any other. =A0They are all equally immortals.=A0 Some, by self-effort, progress faster and assume greater responsibilities under strict and just, fair Universal Law. These are the Prophets, Sages, Rishis, Avatars, Buddhas, etc=85=A0 [ An analysis of all religions shows that their basic ethics and moral demands are similar.]=20 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Briefly:=A0=20 =A0 1=A0 Considering OMNIPRESENCE:=A0 all life-atoms (Monads) are immortals.=A0= Bodies and forms change, wear out and =93die,=94 but the indwelling INTELLIGENCE (= Mind =96 Soul --=A0 SPIRIT) survives and =93reincarnates.=94=A0 It is permanent.= =20 =A0 Each carries internally the memory of its past, and intellectually (as a mind-being) is aware of the illimitable potential of its future.=20 =A0 Wisdom is the capacity of embracing every aspect of Nature (the Universe) and willingly, consciously participating in assisting the growth of those brother-minds which are on the same pilgrimage as it is.=20 =A0 =A0 Nature is thus composed of several =91levels=92 of active intelligences tha= t have become (by self-regulated and impersonal effort -- applied virtue) impartial and wise =91agents.=92=A0=20 =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 These divisions are:=20 =A0 The =93sub-human.=94=A0 [Non-self-conscious =96 as the =91atoms=92 and the = =91lower kingdoms=92 are.] =A0 The =93human,=94 each one with an independent consciousness and a =93free-w= ill.=94=A0 [Mind-beings.] =A0 The =93super-human=94 [Masters of Wisdom] with universal Self-Consciousness= =96 and access to all the memories and records of the past =96 including primordial and secondary evolution.=A0 Incapable of harming anyone or anything.=A0 All =91selfishness=92 eliminated. =A0 =A0 2=A0 God is KARMA =96 and, as the Universe is OMNISCIENT, it records all mo= tives for thoughts, words and deeds.=A0 Being universally sensitive, all the relationships between components are automatically noted and the =93virtues= =94 [which are educative and not punitive] are applied =96 each actor, at whate= ver level of intelligence, receives a response tailored to its capacity to lear= n and improve.=20 =A0 Universal law preserves the rights and responsibilities of all individuals = =96 it is universally protective.=A0 Its objective is to improve (spiritualize) every component life-atom (Monad).=A0 There are no =93secrets=94 possible i= n our real Universe or on Earth. Every =93atom=94 is a witness to our motives and actions.=20 =A0 =A0 3=A0 OMNIPOTENCE is the capacity to respond impartially to any and all chan= ges in the ethico-moral atmosphere of any of its milliards of components, and adjust responses so that they are educative and not punitive.=A0=20 =A0 For this it needs impersonal and morally just =93agents.=94=A0 These are th= e Sages, the Wise, the Prophets, Avatars, Buddhas, etc=85.=A0 This condition = is the destiny of all men (and eventually of every life-atom) as they accelerate their own future by self determination and will.=20 =A0 Every human intelligence (mind-soul-spirit) is engaged in this process.=A0 = It is accelerated as individual Monads choose self-consciously (beginning now) to learn more of their inheritance, of their potentials and capacity, and o= f the workings and purpose of the Universe they (and all of us) live in.=20 =A0 We are all fellow pilgrims on the Path of Life. =A0 =A0 Hope, not fear, is the true master.=20 =A0 Perfection for all lies ahead.=20 =A0 This is what THEOSOPHY observes in Nature and teaches.=A0 It asks to be considered. =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Best = wishes for 2006 =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Dallas =A0 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =A0 -----Original Message----- From: L.R. Andrews=20 Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 6:12 AM To:=20 Subject: Lord's Prayer =A0 LR=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 I have often wondered why the Lord's Prayer contains t= he words, "and lead us not into temptation." Why would the Lord lead us into temptation, or "temporary sensation," as some have called it. Is this the Almighty's way of testing us in order that our consciousness be strenghthened?=A0 Thanks for your feedback. =A0 -------------------------------------------------------- =A0 =A0 DTB=A0=A0=A0=A0 What kind of a =91just God=92 would torture its subjects ?= =A0 Impossible! =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 No just and true benevolence is to be sen= sed in this. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 This is a priestly construction.=A0 Jesus= never taught this. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Study church history =96 when was this = =93prayer=94 adopted?=A0 Why ? =A0 =A0 -------------------------------------------------------- =A0 LR=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Fear seems to be a "devil" amongst us; fear of "death,= " illness, poverty, other people, etc. ad nauseum. Hence constant wars within and without ourselves, it would seem. Why is this? Is it our failure to "tune-in" to Truth? =A0 ---------------------------------------------------------- =A0 =A0 DTB=A0=A0=A0=A0 Fear is based on ignorance and presumed knowledge.=A0 Craft= iness and slyness are being used to keep the masses ignorant pliable and reasonably satisfied.=A0 Study ISIS UNVEILED on Theology to secure an understanding of this. =A0 Thy states as above that man is a free agent, and has to learn how to use his mind.=20 =A0 The Universe is just, honest and fair --- and=A0 not the reverse. =A0 There is no =93PERSONAL GOD.=94 =A0=A0There is a deific presence [=93Perfec= tion=94] which is equally diffused everywhere =96 our minds find difficulty in understanding this because we tend to limit ourselves to our perceptive senses =96 and the Universe is so vast we can only imagine an unlimited situation.=A0=20 =A0 And there is no =93PERSONAL DEVIL=94 per se. =A0 =A0 Let us then visualize =93God=94 (the good, the true and the beautiful) =A0a= s indwelling in us -- as it is in all other beings and humans. Let then act a= s brothers to all =96 no exceptions. =A0 Look for and study the laws of brotherhood and co-existence, and =91give an= d take.=92 =A0 =A0 DTB ------------------------------------------------------------- =A0 =A0 From saidevo@yahoo.co.in Sun Jan 01 06:43:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: saidevo@yahoo.co.in X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88542 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 14:43:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 14:43:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.231) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 14:43:15 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n8.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2006 14:43:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by mailer2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2006 14:43:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by mailer3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2006 14:43:11 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 14:43:11 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 216.155.203.231 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 219.65.101.169 From: "saidevotee" Subject: Spiritual Inquiries: 7. Introduction to the Astral World X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=227523244; y=wCCidRcxYglcU1r5sNv8WvtD_G6ySiAdm-Mxh4kTLVIhPg X-Yahoo-Profile: saidevo "Feeling or emotion is of two kinds--pleasurable or painful.=20 Pleasure, fundamentally a sense of moreness, produces attraction,=20 love (raga); pain, fundamentally a sense of lessness, produces=20 repulsion, hate (dvesha)...All emotions arise from love or hate, or=20 from both, in varying degrees of intensity." -- The Science of the Emotions by Bhagavan Das. The Astral World of the earth is where our desires and emotions manifest, propagate, and affect both the person who originates them and the target they are aimed at. Every person has to go via the astral world after death. It is also the world where most us live,=20 in our astral bodies, until we are ready for a brief stay in the=20 mental world before another birth. The souls of highly developed people when they die, just flash=20 through the astral world into the higher world. Their consciousness=20 is awakened only on the higher or lower planes (devachan or heavens)=20 of the mental world. Ordinary people who possess the qualities of unconditional love, unselfishness and devotion, just sleep through=20 out their necessary stay in the astral world, and their=20 consciousness awakens only in the mental world. All other people, however, have to spend their after-death lives on the astral world, until the seeds of desire in their astral bodies wither out and the astral bodies die, releasing the consciousness=20 into the mental body. Life in the astral world is more active than on the physical world, and form more plastic. The spirit-matter of this world is more=20 highly vitalised than any grade of spirit-matter in the physical=20 world. The seven worlds are actually concentric interpenetrating spheres,=20 not separted from each other by distance but by a difference of constitution. However, it is convenient to think of the higher=20 worlds as forming the next levels of the physical world. The astral world has seven sub-planes, named after their physical counterparts: astral solid, astral liquid, etc. Astral objects are formed by astral matter, just as physical objects are formed by physical matter. The matter of the astral world of our planet stretches a little less than the mean distance of the moon, which is 239,000 miles. The=20 astral spheres of the moon and the earth touch each other when the=20 moon is in perigee, that is, nearest to the earth. The mental world=20 is a still larger sphere. The higher globes are large enough to=20 touch the corresponding spheres of other planets. An ultimate astral=20 atom has 49^5 or 282,475,249 "bubbles in koilon". The astral world has its own scenery and inhabitants, but much of=20 the scenery resembles that on earth, being largely made of the=20 astral duplicates of physical objects. The world and its scenery we=20 encounter in our dreams is usually astral. The astral objects are translucent! Every object in the astral world has a starry light, even the atmosphere is visible, hence the name astral (meaning, like the stars) world. Consciousness in the astral world is less hampered by astral matter, so an object is visible in the astral world in all its profile:=20 back, front, outside and the inside! An untrained observer is=20 shocked and confused by this scenario, receives the most topsy-turvy=20 impressions, and commits blunders, when he tries to translate them=20 to his physical consciousness on return from his astral travels. The following figure illustrates the geometry of the astral world as perceived by a clairvoyant. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hindu_answers/files/saidevo/astralGeo.jpg *** Fig.7.1 Escher Print: In this Escher wood carving entitled "Another World", we have a visual representation of the geometry of the=20 astral plane as it is perceived by clairvoyant individuals (see=20 quote by C. W. Leadbeater on page 274). Note here the seemingly=20 paradoxical overlap of separate three dimensional spaces to create a=20 geometrical space that is seemingly four dimensional. Such a=20 geometry allows one to perceive a three dimensional object from all=20 sides at once. The seeming four dimensional geometry of this plate=20 is also a key quality of hallucinogenic drug induced perceptions,=20 thus pointing to the similarity of clairvoyant and hallucinogenic=20 induced perceptions. Courtesy: Beyond the Physical an e-book by Donald J. DeGracia Apart from the astral counterparts of the objects and scenery of the physical world, the astral world has its own entities which are ensouled by the astral elemental essence. When the second great outpouring or wave of life that created forms out of matter passed through the astral world, it vivified the plane by creating forms=20 out of aggregated astral atoms and ensouling these forms. Known as=20 the astral elemental essence, these forms of astral entities are=20 very sensitive, and change their shapes with startling rapidity and vitality under the impulse of thought vibrations. This means that we can create shapes out of the astral elemental essence by our thoughts, feelings and desires, which have different rates of vibrations. We do create such shapes even in our waking consciousness, by our incessant thoughts and feelings and desires,=20 but we are scarcely aware of this fact. The shapes or forms we create out of thoughts have three attributes: duration, outline and color. The duration of the form depends on the strength of the thought impulse. The clearness of its outline is determined by the precision of the thinking, and the colour depends=20 on the quality of thought: intellectual, devotional, passional. Shapes produced by thoughts and feelings are called thought-forms or artificial elementals. Ensouled by a thought, each thought-form has its own duration of life, and moves very swiftly, towards any=20 intended target, or lazily drifts about where there is no target. Vague, loose thoughts create loose clouds of elemental essence, drifting idly and attaching themselves to astral bodies whose magnetism (vibrations) attracts them. Unattached thought-forms ultimately dissolve into their source elemental essence. This means that our dreams can also be shaped by the thoughts of people around us. The thought currents generated by the enormous number of thoughts floated by people pulsate around us all the time. Some of these are absorbed by our etheric-double (the counterpart of our physical body) giving rise to odd, illogical and strange dreams. More on dreams later. Clear, sharp thoughts have definite shapes with sharp outlines, and show an endless variety of designs. They have longer life than their cloudy brothers. Average people create more thought-forms by feeling or desire than with their thoughts. An outburst of anger causes a very definitely outlined and powerful flash of red. Sustained anger makes a more dangerous thought-form, red in colour, and pointed, barbed or otherwise qualified to injure. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hindu_answers/files/saidevo/tfAngerBurst.jpg http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hindu_answers/files/saidevo/tfAngerSust.jpg http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hindu_answers/files/saidevo/tfLoveRadi.jpg *** Fig.7.2 Thought-forms created by a sudden burst of anger (left), sustained anger (middle), and radiating love (right). Courtesy: Thought Forms by Annie Besant and C. W. Leadbeater Love, according to its quality, sets up forms more or less=20 beautiful, in colours ranging from shades of crimson to the soft=20 hues of rose. A mother's love for her son hovers around him like an=20 angel-form, dispelling any evil influences that he may attract by=20 his thoughts. Study of thought-forms is a subject by itself. Annie Besant and C.W. Leadbeater have written a very useful book on this subject. We shall have more thoughts on this subject later. Thus, even a slight understanding of the astral world can act as a powerful stimulus to right thinking. The Astral World has its own rich scenary, and is populated largely=20 by disembodied souls (we call them dead people) and dreamers, who consititute the human part. There are also non-human entities: Devas and Nature Spirits on the side of the good, and a whole lot of entities on the side of the evil, belonging to the realms of Harry Potter: vampires, werewolves, and the black magician's creations. We shall take a comprehensive tour of the Astral World in a separate set of articles. To continue on the mental and other planes... Sources: 1. Theosophy Explained in Questions and Answers by P. Pavri. 2. The Ancient Wisdom by Annie Besant Regards, saidevo =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D From AnandGholap@AnandGholap.org Sun Jan 01 06:46:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: AnandGholap@AnandGholap.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48467 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 14:46:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 14:46:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.55) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 14:46:08 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2006 14:45:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.90] by mailer7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2006 14:45:57 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 14:45:56 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <00a901c60ec4$00b6b2b0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.55 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 219.91.152.101 From: "Anand Gholap" Subject: Re: Kindly forget Blavatsky X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=187713566; y=1r6m-oiMN0MlMbgelHSKfWA2L-qQCtD4gBfWdA4CeF2XTrzIoaXGWBc X-Yahoo-Profile: anandgholap_net --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "W.Dallas TenBroeck"=20 wrote: > > 1/1/2006 2:52 AM >=20 > Dear Alaya and John: >=20 > I am not sure about the question of HPB's opinion of Mrs.=20 Kingsford.=20=20 >=20 > Can you let us have an actual reference ? Book ? Page ?=20 >=20 > Were there any other references than=20 > LBS -- or LETTERS OF BLAVATSKY TO SINNETT. ( see p. 22 ) >=20 > I am focused more on the philosophy of THEOSOPHY than on people who > approached, supported, or distorted it. >=20 > The history of the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY (and people involved) is=20 well > covered in the documentary history book:=20 >=20 > THE HISTORY OF THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY (1875-1950)=20 > [Theosophy Company, Los Angeles ] >=20 > What we can find about this lady comes mainly from references in=20 >=20 > MAHATMA LETTERS ( where ? ) and=20=20 > LBS -- or LETTERS OF BLAVATSKY TO SINNETT. ( see p. 22 ) >=20 > .Best wishes for 2006. >=20 > Dallas >=20=20 As per my knowledge Anna Kingsford was member of London Lodge as was=20 A. P. Sinnett. Both wanted to become President of the lodge and so=20 it caused some bitterness in relationship.=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D >=20 > -----Original Message----- >=20 > From: Alaya > Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 7:30 AM > To:=20 > Subject: Re: Kindly: >=20 > the question is for Dallas but I'll answer >=20 > LBS is letters of Blavatsky to Sinnett >=20 > and actually, HPB didn't have A.Kindsford in high steem... not at=20 all.. > but Masters did... >=20 > A. K was a bit vain, and called too much attention over herself..=20 and > she also thought that the wisdom of the orient was not good and she > didn't believe in Masters... those are the main reasons HPB didn't > like her.. >=20 > However, she had also very good qualities, and since the Masters=20 don't > want an adoration of themselves and are not interested in > personalities, they didn't care if she didn't believe on them.. >=20 > They just wanted her to do a good job, and she had a great=20 intuition, > contact with angels, and her fight for the animal rights and > vegetarianismo called the Chohan's attention. >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > DTB I would like references for these statements please. >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, samblo@c... wrote: >=20 > Dallas, >=20 > I have a question; >=20=20 > H.P.B. did not have a very high opinion of Mrs. Kingsford. > According to one letter from H.P.B. to Sinnett (LBS, p. 22) >=20=20 >=20=20 > 1. what is "LBS, p.22"? >=20 > 2. Who is it that states HPB did not have a high opinion of Anna=20 Bonus=20 > Kingsford? I have read a diametrically opposite history as=20 regards that. >=20=20 > John > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 >=20 > John also wrote: >=20 > Alaya, >=20 > Thanks for your comments and response as your view in the=20 topic. Yes, I=20 > put the question to Dallas but in a forum all can answer to=20 present a wide=20 > spectra of considerations they hold. >=20 > Ms. Kingsford attempted to meet HPB on several occasions=20 traveling to=20 > London in the effort. On each occasion she was turned back by HPB's > Secretary, but=20 > there came a time when HPB heard her in the next room and told the=20 Secretary >=20 > to let her pass, when Ms Kingsford was before her HPB told her=20 secretary why >=20 > haven't you let her pass before this?=20 >=20 > HPB commented that she perceived an=20 > extremely fine inner organization in the subtle bodies of Ms=20 Kingsford and > held a=20 > high opinion of her at that time.=20 >=20 > I also seem to remember that Ms. Kingsford=20 > was along with Alice Leighton Cleaver one of the few who were the=20 very first >=20 > personal Esoteric Section students directly instructed by HPB. >=20 > John >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sun Jan 01 08:12:25 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12407 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 16:12:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 16:12:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.44) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 16:12:24 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n10.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2006 16:11:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by mailer4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2006 16:11:25 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 16:11:24 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.44 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: "Some Questions Concerning Reincarnation & the Fate of Victims of Accidents...." X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=QcSMYZzzhN1iPMC1gthOf_HfVaKMZ3wJp9y7t4Sc09mMN1egxzxTIPJL X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell "Some Questions Concerning Reincarnation and the Fate of Victims of Accidents & Violence" See: http://blavatskyarchives.com/reincarnationstevenson.htm Daniel Blavatsky Study Center http://blavatskyarchives.com From bta101@hotmail.com Sun Jan 01 10:02:45 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: bta101@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1438 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 18:02:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 18:02:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.42) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 18:02:44 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2006 18:02:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by mailer8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2006 18:02:44 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 18:02:41 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <43B65B4E.24712.9549AF0@localhost> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.42 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 70.132.42.79 From: "bta1012003" Subject: Re: [Do not! A.] Forget HPB & her writing, consider Besant as & move on X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=118449510; y=7m6jF-Jf1WsMnLpR_TLNEwZqTxIYGVqqKIR_sFkX64F3fgfHeA X-Yahoo-Profile: bta1012003 Dear Adelasie: Thank you for your consistent, poetic poise. It disperses so many=20 unnecessary claptraps, to use your term. I always enjoy reading=20 your comments and responses.=20=20 Happy New Year, bta > Why on earth does this claptrap persist? I can only surmise that=20 it=20 > is an opportunity for anyone who tries to live right and think for=20 > him/herself to practice these very things. Already it is a bit=20 over=20 > my line to respond, except that I want to defend that great soul,=20 > HPB, and the Masters of Compassion, her Teachers, the saviors of=20 > mankind, from this petty caterwauling. And yet I know, I know,=20 that=20 > any opposition only fuels negativity. Let us live in the Light=20 and,=20 > following the examples set for us by the Great Ones, find=20 compassion=20 > for those who are so deluded that such messages as this, and the=20 > subject, can even pretend to be serious. Let me try... >=20 > Happy New Year all, to new beginnings, > Adelasie >=20 From amela@internode.on.net Sun Jan 01 10:18:15 2006 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 95702 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 18:18:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 18:18:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.52) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 18:18:13 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2006 18:17:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by mailer8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2006 18:16:53 -0000 X-Sender: amela@internode.on.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45075 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 13:03:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 13:03:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp1.adl2.internode.on.net) (203.16.214.181) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 13:03:37 -0000 Received: from p43ghz (ppp100-180.static.internode.on.net [150.101.100.180]) by smtp1.adl2.internode.on.net (8.12.9/8.12.6) with SMTP id k01CxMdB082391 for ; Sun, 1 Jan 2006 23:29:35 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from amela@internode.on.net) Message-ID: <001801c60ed3$341c3530$f301a8c0@p43ghz> To: Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 23:29:19 +1030 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1506 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-Originating-IP: 203.16.214.181 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Amela" Subject: introduction X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162161186; y=blOlzX4MMwbOvW06i7nP2oymAij1IB7GN2o6IhEYX9G67YY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: eldon_tucker via web; 01 Jan 2006 18:16:50 -0000 Hello Well as my first email is my introduction I shall begin. My name is Amela. I am a highschool science teacher in Australia. I'm not sure how much detail is needed but If more information is requested I am happy to supply it. There are two reasons why I have joined the list. The first reason is that I am seeking spiritual/intellectual growth. The second reason is that I am delving into opening up a highschool based on an educational philosophy from an alternative school I used to teach at which closed (long story). But I also want to add a spiritual philosophy to this future school. Since the school closed I haven't been very happy teaching whithin dogmatic private schools or public schools which lack a holistic appraoch to teaching. Some claim they do but I still think more can be achieved. I've looked into teaching at a steiner school but it doesn't include all of my visions and is still someone too structured. If anyone is curious about the philosophy of this school I am happy to share. At this point it is just a wonderful idea. not sure where to go from here. warm regards Amela [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Sun Jan 01 11:35:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52093 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 19:35:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 19:35:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mx03.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.13) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 19:35:15 -0000 Received: from 56347a74.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.122.116] helo=khidr6094418a5) by mx03.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1Et8yl-0006kz-0e for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 20:34:58 +0100 Message-ID: <003e01c60f0a$f522dc70$747a3456@khidr6094418a5> To: References: Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 20:38:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.13 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "M. Sufilight" Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Forget HPB & her writing, consider Besant as founder & move on X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=3cpoycyRzP_kACtK1gkleVaES37BalL-7tqBrTuDxDWH X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Hallo Anand and all, I have been pondering your reply a bit. I do not agree so much with you, this time. I think Cass earlier made a reply, which deserves attention. But, let us see, what you can reply with. This is my answer. 1. Anand wrote: I agree with this point. But question was who was/is second teacher. Most probably second and real teacher was Annie Besant who was appointed, proved by her calibre and work. However I think Masters would send somebody time to time, some teacher to carry out work of Theosophy. TS was never meant for dependence on one leader only. It was always considered as society that would go on for hundreds of years. Obviously it will need real teachers and I think it will get. My Sufilight answer: I agree, that the Masters from time to time send out emmisaries or direct agents. That is my knowledge. But, I find It to be somewhat fruitless to assume, with words like "Most probably", about this issue. I say this in a friendly manner - even if it is true, that it could be guiding someone. If one doesn't really have Knowledge about this issue one aught to prepare oneself for this Knowledge. This is Learning how to Learn. Intellectual assumtions will not help us much. I will add, that it should not be ruled out, that more than one person from different organisations could be said to the second Teacher or Teachers. Each of them taking care of the various groups of Seekers and their needs on more than one non-linear level. Even if I know who the teachers are or was it would not help, that much if I told just anyone about it. There is time, place and circumstances etc. to talk about such knowledge. This is not the place and time etc. as I understand it. 2. Anand wrote: Immediately after Blavatsky's death, a sect or cult was formed. She did not want it. But her writing is such that sect or cult automatically forms among her students. Annie Besant spoke and wrote against cult, sect. But in ULT, Pasadena TS, there were always some individuals who tried to create sect or cult. And some Blavatsyans in Adyar TS have also become very dogmatic. My Sufilight answer: The use of the word "automatically" I find here to be problematic, because it could be misunderstood. I would rather say, that ofshoot cults or sects was created because global Karma made it necessary. If people want to create a cult, they do so. And many of the cults followers does often not know, that it is a cult.:-) Else I think we agree on that. On Annie Besant being a second teacher, - I would compare for instance the content of Blavatsky's article on "Chelas" with the total litterary outlet, which Besant allowed to be created together with Leadbeater during her time of leadership. The article by Blavatsky is here: http://www.blavatsky.net/blavatsky/arts/Chelas.htm An excerpt from Blavatsky's article: "Indeed the goal set before the Chela is not the acquisition of psychological power; his chief task is to divest himself of that overmastering sense of personality which is the thick veil that hides from sight our immortal part--the real man. So long as he allows this feeling to remain, just so long will he be fixed at the very door of Occultism, unable to proceed further." I hold it to be true, that Besant under her leadership allowed - perhaps through Leadbeater - litterary outlets, with a content which quite unfortunately way too much drove many Seekers into a witchhunt on exploration of ekstra sensory perception (ESP). While at the same time putting the methaphysical and esoterical teachings on Gupta-Vidya too much into the background. Not to mention the emotionally oriented ceremonials, which was connected to TS Adyar during the leadership of Annie Besant. - And because of this TS Adyar ran into problems and secterian tendencies flourished within the society. At the same time we must remember, that there was a greater reform in a number of western european countries School-systems during the time of Besants leadership. A far greater number could read and write during Besants leadership than during the Blavatsky area. Even Annie Besant did herself an effort on this in India. In the Middle East and other parts of the globe developments of TS nature were more slow. This change of focus within the TS Adyar was in fact at least somewhat a deterioration of the theosophical teachings as they were forwarded by Blavatsky. Not that Besant and other lecturers during her time of leadership never taught real and genuine theosophy, on their level of understanding. So they did, and that was good. But, the deterioration happened. This deterioration however could be both a necessary and somewhat fruitful plan. Because many aspirants would be easier attracted to Theosophy and spread the news about theosophy around the globe. And Blavatsky teachings and other more genuine teachings was still available to the Seeker from TS Adyar's book production and within the TS libraries. However, empahsis has to be laid on the fact, that It is the spiritual quality among members of TS, which is important. Not so much the number of followers. Blavatsky once said something similar. So to me Annie Besant was not the Second Teacher in the sense, that she did not give irrefutable evidence on Gupta-Vidya. Certainly not. But, maybe you have something else to offer Anand? I might have missed something? This said, I know also, that a Master from time to time hides behind emotionally oriented ESP cults - and act as an more or less vissible guide to the cults future destiny. Emotional ESP cults using the name Theosophy has a vital importance when compared to the real Theosophical groups which a direct agent and clear continous contact with the Masters. This simply because they are connected to each other. This should be underlined. But an emotional ESP cult using the name Theosophy - is still just an emotional ESP cult. 3. Anand wrote: You can easily guess which groups are frozen. Adyar TS has taken precaution by printing Freedom of Thought on every Theosophist issue. But that alone is not sufficient. There are some more things they should do to stop formation of dogma and cult. My Sufilight answer: Interesting answer you have there Anand. Could you expand on what Adyar TS should do to "stop formation of dogma and cult"? And please do also expand on why I should merely - guess - which groups are frozen? I hope my answer was helpful. from M. Sufilight with a strange clairvoyant look...and a happy laughter... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anand Gholap" To: Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 3:01 PM Subject: Theos-World Re: Forget HPB & her writing, consider Besant as founder & move on > Hello Morten, > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight" theosophy@s...> wrote: >> >> Hallo Anand, >> >> Thanks. >> >> About the second Teacher I will say this: >> >> "The bitter truth is that before man can know his own inadequacy, > or the >> competence of another man or institution, he must first learn > something >> which will enable him to perceive both. Note well that his > perception itself >> is a product of right study; not of instinct or emotional > attraction to the >> individual, nor yet of desiring to 'go it alone'. This > is 'Learning How To >> Learn." >> (from 'Learning how to Learn' by Idries Shah) > > I agree with this point. But question was who was/is second teacher. > Most probably second and real teacher was Annie Besant who was > appointed, proved by her calibre and work. However I think Masters > would send somebody time to time, some teacher to carry out work of > Theosophy. TS was never meant for dependence on one leader only. It > was always considered as society that would go on for hundreds of > years. Obviously it will need real teachers and I think it will get. > >> >> >> Then the next questions of mine comes forward again. >> Here I take the three next of the 15-16 questions to ponder or > contemplate. >> >> A. >> Who are being or has been mistaken for being the "second teacher" > within >> theosophical teachings, but are or was in fact only promoting a > theosophical >> Cult, (emotional and what not) - with merely social and > psychological >> teachings as the main objective? >> >> B. >> And who has been or are promoting The Theosophical Society merely > as an >> emotional cult and was this creation of a cult in accordance with > the >> original ideas or with the wisdom teachings? > > Immediately after Blavatsky's death, a sect or cult was formed. She > did not want it. But her writing is such that sect or cult > automatically forms among her students. > Annie Besant spoke and wrote against cult, sect. But in ULT, > Pasadena TS, there were always some individuals who tried to create > sect or cult. And some Blavatsyans in Adyar TS have also become very > dogmatic. > > >> >> C. >> Who are merely frozen in the development of the furtherance of the >> theosophical teachings (the doctrine of "business-as-usual") - and > not >> knowing to be so? >> >> >> Or I could ask which groups or organisations if any are involved > in this? > > You can easily guess which groups are frozen. Adyar TS has taken > precaution by printing Freedom of Thought on every Theosophist > issue. But that alone is not sufficient. There are some more things > they should do to stop formation of dogma and cult. > > Anand Gholap >> >> >> >> from >> M. Sufilight with the Seekers after Truth... >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Anand Gholap" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 1:29 PM >> Subject: Theos-World Re: Forget HPB & her writing, consider Besant > as >> founder & move on >> >> >> > Hello Morten, >> > Article is interesting. Indeed major problem for most is who is >> > second and real teacher mentioned here. >> > >> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight" > > theosophy@s...> wrote: >> >> >> >> Hallo Anand and all, >> >> >> >> My views are: >> >> >> >> I think we have been talking about these issues before here at >> > Theos-talk. >> >> >> >> Maybe Anand, other participants to this thread as well as > various >> >> theosophists could be helped >> >> by reading a previous email of mine to this place: >> >> http://theos-talk.com/archives/200409/tt00536.html >> >> (And read also the links within the emails) >> >> Especially this one: >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/17916 >> >> >> >> An major excerpt from the last link are given in the below >> >> It is in part about what happened when Blavatsky died > physically: >> >> >> >> "After the disappearance from the field of a teacher of Wisdom, >> > the >> >> followers >> >> will divide themselves into groups, in accordance with their >> > strength and >> >> weaknesses. Some will assume control of others. They may be good >> > or bad, and >> >> this will be shown by their reaction to - the second teacher - >> > when he/she >> >> arrives. >> >> If they realise he/she is their teacher, then they have merely >> > been >> >> developing >> >> themselves and can mature. But if they have become atrophied, > they >> > will be >> >> too >> >> blind to recognize the Spirituality of the very teacher, for > which >> >> appearance >> >> they have been prepared. They may attach themselves, in default, >> > to a >> >> different >> >> group. (And this groups existence is maybe no coincidence.) > Again >> > well and >> >> good >> >> : providing they return to the mainstream of teaching when it is >> > offered to >> >> them >> >> again. This is the test of whether they have overcome the lower >> > self. They >> >> will >> >> realise, if they are sufficiently developed, that the person who >> > appears to >> >> be >> >> 'second' teacher is in reality - the first in importance. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> Life is reversed for the undeveloped man (the newcomer), and >> > he/she will >> >> behave >> >> in accordance with this. The first teacher does not make life >> > easier, in >> >> most >> >> cases, for the generality of disciples. He/She will teach them >> > things, which >> >> are >> >> only of use when the second teacher arrives and reality falls > into >> > place. >> >> The >> >> object of this is twofold. In the first place, certain valuable >> > thoughts >> >> have >> >> been given to the disciples. In the second, they are tested by > the >> > means of >> >> these ideas. Just as our western psychologists give odd-shaped >> > pieces of >> >> wood to >> >> people, to see how they put them together, teachers of Wisdom > will >> > give >> >> odd-pieces of material of - mental kind - to his/her > followers. - >> > If they >> >> try to >> >> fit these together however, and to make a pattern in his/hers - >> > absences, - >> >> they >> >> are becoming 'fossilised'. Because, the Wisdom tradition has to >> > show that >> >> the >> >> object of mankind is not to construct idols, but to follow a >> > supreme >> >> pattern, >> >> which is learnt piece by piece. >> >> >> >> When a system of teaching of wisdom is in a period of > fallowness, >> > because >> >> the >> >> one who propagated it is dead, then there comes a period of >> > stagnation. This >> >> period can last between 10 years, 15 years or more. In the time, >> > which >> >> passes, >> >> the group of people who is affected by the system are sieved by >> > natural >> >> means. >> >> Some wander away. Others carry on automatically not really >> > knowing, what >> >> they >> >> are doing. They are now 'frozen', though they do not know they > are. >> >> The blind may try to lead the blinder. This takes the form of >> > assumption of >> >> authority by those who were given some sort of authority in the >> > original >> >> mandate. These are the people in the most dangerous position, >> > because the >> >> longer >> >> they remain 'orphaned' the more strongly their lower self (or > the >> > three >> >> lower >> >> bodies) asserts it self. >> >> Others may modify the teachings in a learned and personal way. >> > Some >> >> certainly >> >> fall a prey to cults, which have come into being in order to > serve >> > them. The >> >> people who joins these are at great pains to explain why they >> > consider, that >> >> they represent the same kind of teaching - and this is > important. >> > It is >> >> important, because it shows the Theosophist or the real >> > spiritually minded, >> >> very >> >> clearly, that the people who try to explain - are in fact > troubled >> > by >> >> conscience. Somewhere inside them, they know, that they are >> > identifying >> >> themselves with an imitation, or a second-best. But they are >> > supported by >> >> their >> >> lower bodies or lower personality, - and this is too strong for >> > them. >> >> Those can be helped by being lead to think in new thinking- >> > patterns and >> >> systems. >> >> It is via the conscience, that one finds the path forward, - >> > thereby will be >> >> able to remove the limitations of the lower personality." >> >> >> >> And again: >> >> So very important: The use of ideas is to shape a man or woman, >> > not to >> >> support a >> >> system - which is viewed in a limited manner. This is one way in >> > which the >> >> Wisdom Tradition is 'living', and not just the perpetuations of >> > ideas and >> >> movements. This seems important to understand and know about. >> >> >> >> My views is: >> >> Dead-letter teachings has never been the hallmark of real >> > theosophy. >> >> There is actually no need to use the very words "theosophy" or >> >> "Theosophical" >> >> when TODAY forwarding true and honest teachings (related to > time, >> > place and >> >> people mind you) >> >> about the Path or Atma-Vidya etc... >> >> Today a number of wellmeaning Theosophists forget too much to >> > CLEARLY point >> >> this out to Seekers they themselves teach or guide. >> >> >> >> What we don't need is the create yet a new set of branches each > of >> > them >> >> being sort of >> >> "Bible-collection"-studying sects accepting only dead-letter >> > teachings (as >> >> main teachings) >> >> containing the words "Theosophical" or "theosophy" as a > NECESSITY. >> >> And with each sect using their own Bible-collection. >> >> >> >> Another excerpt trying to some how escape business as usual: >> >> "So how is the development of The Theosophical Soceity and > various >> >> theosophical groups going to be in the future - IF - we as a >> > minimum base >> >> our views on my above email - while keeping the link to J.J. van >> > der Leeuw >> >> pamphlet in the first link in the above in mind? >> >> >> >> We could with some adavantage ponder on the following questions: >> >> 1. Who is (or was) the "second teacher(s)" - if any - within >> > Theosophy? - >> >> And will there be or has there been a third, fourth or fifth >> > teacher? >> >> 2. Who are being or has been mistaken for being the "second >> > teacher" within >> >> theosophical teachings, but are or was in fact only promoting a >> > theosophical >> >> Cult, (emotional and what not) - with merely social and >> > psychological >> >> teachings as the main objective? >> >> 3. And who has been or are promoting The Theosophical Society >> > merely as an >> >> emotional cult and was this creation of a cult in accordance > with >> > the >> >> original ideas or with the wisdom teachings? >> >> 4. Who are merely frozen in the development of the furtherance > of >> > the >> >> theosophical teachings (the doctrine of "business-as-usual") - > and >> > not >> >> knowing to be so? >> >> 5. Who have merely been writing interpretations on the >> > theosophical >> >> teachings in a learned manner since HPB died - and had success > in >> > building >> >> an marked increase in support to the theosophical cause? >> >> 6. - And who have merely been writing interpretations on the >> > theosophical >> >> teachings in a learned manner since HPB died - but failed to > build >> > an marked >> >> increase in support to the theosophical cause? >> >> 7. Is your conscience not telling you that a teaching which are >> > labelled as >> >> "secondary" is not as good as a teaching named "primary" - >> >> with a "primary" and up-to-date Teacher guiding you? (A Teacher >> > who is >> >> alive - and - not living in the past guiding you with "past" >> > teachings.) >> >> 8. Have you actually matured visibly as a Seeker beyond the >> > average >> >> fellow-human-beings level of consciuosness just by reading a few >> >> theosophical books or even one hundred of them? And do all > Seekers >> > who do >> >> that mature beyond that level? >> >> 9. Can real theosophical teaching happen in randomly collected >> > groups - >> >> where the listeners are not in harmony with each other, the >> > teacher, time, >> >> place and circumstances? (Are it just not merely information >> > stimulating the >> >> intellect which are being exchanged?) >> >> 9. Can the blind lead the blinder? (Maybe it is good to be > honest >> > about how >> >> blind one is.) >> >> 10. Do you not need a - real - teacher first? >> >> 11. Can Universal Brotherhood be created or is it just merely a >> > dream with >> >> all those theosophical sects (and Sisterhoods >:-)...) around in >> > the world? >> >> Sects because they do not openly tell the Seekers how they > relate >> > to other >> >> theosophical groups year 2004. >> >> 12. Will the Theosophical Societies and other theosophical > groups >> > create a >> >> good furtherance of its teachings through promotion of so- >> > called "spritiaul >> >> Master Revelations" presented or treated by various Theosophical >> > leaders as >> >> an authority? (What was good in the good old days - is maybe not >> > good >> >> today.) >> >> 13. Is the furtherance of the theosophical teachings based on >> > giving more >> >> emphasis to the opening of the spiritual Heart, love and > unselfsh >> > healing >> >> more than what can be termed "business-as-usual" or the > spiritual >> > support of >> >> emotional get-to-gethers? >> >> 14. How aught one to promote oneself as a Teacher of theosophy? >> > And how not? >> >> 15. How do I promote Theosophy at work? Through social-get- >> > togethers? >> >> >> >> >> >> My views are: >> >> Answering these questions will provide material enough to write >> > several >> >> volumes of text. >> >> At this place we call Theos-Talk, we dare challenge leadership > and >> > how it >> >> aught to be used theosophically speaking. >> >> At various theosophical groups leadership are not allowed to be >> > challenged. >> >> Some of the reasons for this I think J.J. van der Leeuw has >> > presented in his >> >> still important pamphlet. Blavatsky was challenged and allowed > it >> > to happen >> >> to a very great extend." >> >> >> >> >> >> And again: >> >> So very important: The use of ideas is to shape a man or woman, >> > not to >> >> support a >> >> system - which is viewed in a limited manner. This is one way in >> > which the >> >> Wisdom Tradition is 'living', and not just the perpetuations of >> > ideas and >> >> movements. This seems important to understand and know about. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> from >> >> M. Sufilight with a smile... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sun Jan 01 12:40:19 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24329 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 20:40:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 20:40:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.42) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 20:40:18 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2006 20:39:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by mailer3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2006 20:39:40 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 20:39:39 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.42 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: H.P. Blavatsky: "An ounce of gold is worth a ton of dust. . . . " X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=sOI1h2HV-NBCuqfYUq-RPUzaISvtQOcT_mkHZhpSfmtHxiWkZbxyqIzk X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell In "The Key to Theosophy" published in 1889, H.P.B.=20 made the following observations about the confusion, etc.=20 among many students of Theosophy, esotericism, occultism,=20 etc.: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D Look around you and observe.=20 While two-thirds of civilized society ridicule the=20 mere notion that there is anything in Theosophy,=20 Occultism, Spiritualism, or in the Kabala, the=20 other third is composed of the most heterogeneous=20 and opposite elements.=20=20 Some believe in the mystical, and even in the=20 supernatural (!), but each believes in his own=20 way. Others will rush single-handed into the study=20 of the Kabala, Psychism, Mesmerism, Spiritualism,=20 or some form or another of Mysticism.=20 Result: no two men think alike, no two are agreed=20 upon any fundamental occult principles, though many=20 are those who claim for themselves the ultima thule=20 of knowledge, and would make outsiders believe that=20 they are full-blown adepts. . . . . Some limit ancient wisdom to the Kabala and the Jewish=20 Zohar. . . . .Others regard Swedenborg or Boehme as=20 the ultimate expressions of the highest wisdom; while=20 others again see in mesmerism the great secret of=20 ancient magic. One and all of those who put their=20 theory in practice are rapidly drifting, through ignorance,=20 into black magic.=20 Happy are those who escape from it, as they have neither=20 test nor criterion by which they can distinguish between=20 the true and the false. . . .=20 A portion of the true [Esoteric/Theosophical] sciences=20 is better than a mass of undigested and misunderstood=20 learning.=20 An ounce of gold is worth a ton of dust. . . . =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Original 1889 edition, pp. 21-22=20 Is the situation any better or any worse today in 2005? Daniel Blavatsky Study Center http://blavatskyarchives.com From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sun Jan 01 12:51:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83308 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 20:51:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 20:51:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.52) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 20:51:01 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2006 20:50:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by mailer1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jan 2006 20:50:42 -0000 Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 20:50:42 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.52 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: "Nothing is more dangerous to Esoteric Truth than the garbled and distorted...." X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=CsBPlfCBStKkRMjLiQHHmCofUA5plyuMYNlTylna807PkWbaSnTog1CN X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell In 1889, H.P. Blavatsky warned her students about=20 the following developments: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D . . . A new and rapidly growing danger. . . is threatening=20 . . . the spread of the pure Esoteric Philosophy and=20 knowledge. . . . I allude to those charlatanesque=20 imitations of Occultism and Theosophy. . . .=20 By pandering to the prejudices of people, and especially=20 by adopting the false ideas of a personal God and a=20 personal, carnalized Saviour, as the groundwork of their=20 teaching, the leaders of this 'swindle' (for such it is)=20 are endeavoring to draw men to them and in particular to=20 turn Theosophists from the true path. . . . A close examination will assuredly reveal. . .=20=20 materials largely stolen . . . from Theosophical writings . . . [and] distorted and falsified so as to be palmed=20 off on the unwary as revelations of new and undreamed of=20 truths.=20=20 But many will neither have the time nor the opportunity=20 for such a thorough investigation; and before they become=20 aware of the imposture they may be led far from the Truth. . . . Nothing is more dangerous to Esoteric Truth than the=20 garbled and distorted versions disfigured to suit the=20 prejudices and tastes of men in general. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Quoted from E.S. Instruction No. I., 1889. Do Theosophical students face similar situations in 2006? Daniel Blavatsky Study Center http://blavatskyarchives.com From bartl@sprynet.com Sun Jan 01 12:56:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54293 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 20:56:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 20:56:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.65) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 20:56:29 -0000 Received: from [151.198.115.250] (helo=sprynet.com) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EtAFg-0000H4-Ud for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 15:56:29 -0500 Message-ID: <43B841FC.6040107@sprynet.com> Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 15:56:28 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: <92.349d1589.30e7faeb@cs.com> In-Reply-To: <92.349d1589.30e7faeb@cs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: 5be619ec394aa49c25eb773df4b61cba6c90d6370e3df20c1fd4b3e03bb0e52ea2d4e88014a4647c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.65 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Theos-World Kindly: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=690370; y=IOLDE7bIPQ0-dThFZBir7f2jXdovtSYnT9WpQj5LXxSUALM X-Yahoo-Profile: bml07646 samblo@cs.com wrote: > < According to one letter from H.P.B. to Sinnett (LBS, p. 22)<<< > > > 1. what is "LBS, p.22"? > 2. Who is it that states HPB did not have a high opinion of Anna Bonus > Kingsford? I have read a diametrically opposite history as regards that. Well, this is part of what she said in Kinsgsford's obiturary: "She was a Theosophist and a true one at heart; a leader of spiritual and philosophical thought, gifted with most exceptional psychic attributes." Sounds like a pretty high opinion to me. Bart From Drpsionic@aol.com Sun Jan 01 14:06:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19769 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2006 22:06:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jan 2006 22:06:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d21.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.207) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jan 2006 22:06:01 -0000 Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.75.5342bce3 (16781) for ; Sun, 1 Jan 2006 17:05:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <75.5342bce3.30e9ac24@aol.com> Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 17:05:24 EST To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5021 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.144.207 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Kindly: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=DzSSMcAqIDrnayPyJUc4uUlCCmS7Wcw6oeP184-CHmy8LEwASg X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/1/2006 2:58:23 PM Central Standard Time, bartl@sprynet.com writes: "She was a Theosophist and a true one at heart; a leader of spiritual and philosophical thought, gifted with most exceptional psychic attributes." Sounds like a pretty high opinion to me. Bart What would you expect HPB to say in an obituary? "She was a nutbar who nearly made us all look like complete morons and the Masters are so terribly glad she died?" Chuck the Heretic [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From samblo@cs.com Sun Jan 01 16:15:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: Samblo@cs.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 67173 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2006 00:15:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2006 00:15:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m21.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.2) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2006 00:15:46 -0000 Received: from Samblo@cs.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.ee.2306781b (3874) for ; Sun, 1 Jan 2006 19:15:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 19:15:24 EST To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 6.0 sub 10512 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.2 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: samblo@cs.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Kindly: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=27151446 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dallas, In your reply to Cass you Post an excerpt: <>H.P.B. did not have a very high opinion of Mrs. Kingsford.<< I would like to give a few examples to show it was otherwise: H. P. = Blavatsky - Chapter 12-Anna Kingsford 5th Rounder http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/hpb-tm/hpbtm-12.htm >> According to K.H. in the Mahatma Letters, she was a "fifth rounder," a=20 technical theosophical term for those persons who have run ahead of the ave= rage=20 in evolutionary development, a fact of which she herself had more than a=20 suspicion. << << In the Mahatma Letters on pages 345-7, K.H. pays Anna Kingsford a high=20 tribute for her intuitive seership. Here is one sentence:=20 > Well may you admire and more should you wonder at the marvellous lucidity= =20 > of that remarkable seeress, who ignorant of Sanskrit or Pali, and thus sh= ut=20 > out from their metaphysical treasures, has yet seen a great light shining= from=20 > behind the dark hills of exoteric religions. << Anna Bonus Kingsford was President of the Theosophical Lodge of London: >>Not long before Olcott reached London in 1884, a complication had arisen = in=20 the London Lodge in regard to the presidency. Mrs. Kingsford had held the=20 office for some time in response to the expressed wish of the Masters as=20 indicated to Mr. Sinnett, though H.P.B. had disapproved of her occupation o= f the post=20 notwithstanding that she was the Masters' choice for the time. >> H.P.B.'s notice of her death contains the following:=20 > She was a Theosophist and a true one at heart; a leader of spiritual and= =20 > philosophical thought, gifted with most exceptional psychic attributes. .= . .=20 > The first and most important [of her books] was "The Perfect Way, or the= =20 > Finding of Christ," which gives the esoteric meaning of Christianity. It = sweeps=20 > away many of the difficulties that thoughtful readers of the Bible must c= ontend=20 > with in their endeavours to either understand or accept literally the sto= ry=20 >=20 > . . . the circle of her mystically-inclined friends will miss her greatly= ,=20 > for such women as she are not numerous in the same century. The world in= =20 > general has lost in Mrs. Kingsford one who can be very ill-spared in this= era of=20 > materialism. -- Lucifer, II, 78-9, March 1888 << Theosophical Society in America: Chapter 13=20 http://www.theosophical.org/theosophy/books/esotericworld/chapter13/ >> As we sat there I felt the old signal of a message from the Master and s= aw=20 that she was listening. She said: "Judge, the Master asks me to try and gue= ss=20 what would be the most extraordinary thing he could order now?" I said, "Th= at=20 Mrs [Anna Kingsford] should be the President of the London Lodge." << >> Mrs. Anna Bonus Kingsford (1846=E2=80=931888), English mystical writer = and doctor=20 of medicine, was the author (in collaboration with Edward Maitland) of The= =20 Perfect Way; or, The Finding of Christ (1882), an esoteric interpretation o= f=20 Christianity. =E2=80=93Editor.]=20 ***she also Authored another below (John): Clothed With The= Sun Index http://www.sacred-texts.com/wmn/cws/index.htm Readers of this forum may be interested in the perspective of Yeats relativ= e=20 to Anna Bonus Kingsford ( I will only type the URL as my PC crashed earlier= =20 when I loaded the page, strictly a naunce of my PC not the Yeats Homepage) W. B. Yeats and "A Vision": The Hermetic Society http://www.yeatsvision.com/Herm.html Continueing: Anna Kingsfo= rd, Madame Blavatsky and the Theosophists by Edward Maitland http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/maitland1913.htm >>The matter went no further at this time; but we were struck by learning=20 that Mary had been recognised by the mysterious chiefs of the Theosophical= =20 Society as "the greatest natural mystic of the present day, and countless a= ges in=20 advance of the great majority of mankind, the foremost of whom belong to th= e=20 last race of the fourth round, while she belongs to the first race of the f= ifth=20 round." << >>Respecting that Society, the then President of the English Branch, our=20 valued friend, C. C. Massey, wrote as follows: -=20 > "For the attitude of the Society towards all the religions of the world, = I=20 > may refer you to the enclosed paper, =E2=80=98Individuality of Branches,= =E2=80=99 now being=20 > issued, along with the enclosed circular, to all our members. I believe t= here=20 > would be much opposition among us to giving our own branch a sectarian=20 > designation or direction. One grand aim of our Society is to show the und= erlying,=20 > or esoteric, identity of all religious philosophies worthy of the name, a= nd,=20 > while respecting the particular forms or manifestations of the one truth,= to=20 > cut away the ground of sectarian antagonism which such partial or disguis= ed=20 > presentations appear to contain. In India, Olcott has busied himself much= with=20 > what I take to be a Buddhist propaganda, though I believe he would not ad= mit=20 > this. Anyhow, there can be no doubt whatever that to Christianity, as=20 > popularly understood and taught, we are all more or less opposed. We have= two=20 > beneficed clergymen of the Church of England among us, and they would pro= bably say=20 > that the popular form is capable of a true statement, and must be regarde= d=20 > as =E2=80=98dispensational.=E2=80=99 That is quite consistent with the di= scovery in it of a=20 > true system of doctrine, which, however, would be such a =E2=80=98new dep= arture=E2=80=99 as=20 > almost to amount to a second revelation. And that, I believe, would be th= e=20 > position accepted by yourselves as the writers of The Perfect Way. And I = think=20 > you will find the answer to the question, whether that position is=20 > inconsistent with our regard for the Indian teachings, in the paper about= the=20 > =E2=80=98Individuality of Branches.=E2=80=99 The liberty reserved to Bran= ches cannot be denied to=20 > individuals. I cannot, of course, conceal from myself that it is desirabl= e that=20 > our President should be in great sympathy with the acknowledged teachers = of the=20 > Society, - although, indeed, there is no one who is ready and able to tea= ch=20 > us whom we should not be ready and able to acknowledge. Certainly I shoul= d=20 > not accept the statement that we look to =E2=80=98Koot Hoomi,=E2=80=99 or= any one else, as the=20 > =E2=80=98ultimate source of illumination.=E2=80=99 But at present we are = studying in his=20 > school. It will be for our President to read to us the expositions which = come=20 > from that quarter, and of course we should look to her for a sympathetic,= and=20 > not a controversial, attitude towards them. That does not prevent her f= rom=20 > holding and pointing out any other aspect of truth, even in relation to t= hem. > "If I hear from Mrs. Kingsford, I may be able to satisfy her and you more= =20 > fully on these points in my reply to her. I infer from your letter that t= he=20 > return to London will not be just yet, if you find the suitable quarters = for her=20 > health in the Engadine. We should have to set off the hope for her=20 > restoration from this residence against the postponement of her appearanc= e among us. I=20 > most earnestly trust that the Providence which guards her work will also= =20 > secure her to us as its best agent." >=20 The following is from the circular in which Mr. Massey notified the Society= =20 of his intention to nominate Mrs. Kingsford as its President: - >=20 > "I have now to give notice of an important proposition, which I shall sub= mit=20 > to the general meeting, in the earnest hope that it may meet with general= =20 > and cordial approval, and in the belief that its adoption will conduce to= the=20 > future vitality, progress, and use of the Society. It is that Dr. Anna=20 > Kingsford shall be elected President of the Society for the ensuing year.= From=20 > information I have received, I think there can be no doubt that this choi= ce would=20 > be acceptable to those with whom we are most anxious to come into direct= =20 > relations, while the knowledge many of ourselves possess of the genius, m= oral=20 > force, and entire devotion to spiritual ideals of this accomplished lady = seems=20 > to designate her as the natural leader of a Society with beliefs and aims= such=20 > as ours. Nor are Dr. Kingsford=E2=80=99s scientific attainments an unimpo= rtant=20 > consideration to the body of students who see and desire to trace in occu= lt=20 > phenomena an extension of the range of Natural Philosophy. It may also be= =20 > allowable, in a private letter like the present, to refer to the well-kno= wn fact that=20 > she is one of the literary authors of that remarkable work, The Perfect W= ay,=20 > or the Finding of Christ. The general resemblance of the ideas there put= =20 > forward to the teachings which we are studying has been expressly acknowl= edged by=20 > our Indian authorities. It is, however, scarcely necessary to observe tha= t=20 > our selection of Dr. Kingsford will not imply unqualified acceptance of a= ll=20 > her published opinions. We could never have at our head any marked=20 > individuality, if members supposed that in electing a President they were= so committing=20 > themselves. On the other hand, as a result of this step, we may expect=20 > important accessions to our ranks, and a union of forces which have latel= y been=20 > tending in the same direction. It is, perhaps, quite unnecessary to urge = a=20 > recommendation which will, I believe, be generally acceptable; but to all= who may=20 > think that my long connection with the Society, and intimate relations wi= th=20 > those most completely identified with its interest, entitle my opinion to= any=20 > consideration, I may say that I have not decided on making this proposal= =20 > without the most careful deliberation and consultation, and that I regard= its=20 > adoption as of vital importance. It only remains to add on this subject, = that Dr.=20 > Kingsford herself has, I rejoice to say, given a conditional consent to t= he=20 > nomination."<< >>The election of Mary as President, and myself as Vice-President, of what= =20 was subsequently called the London Lodge of the Theosophical Society took p= lace=20 at the first meeting in 1883, which fell on Sunday, January 7. We discovere= d=20 in the course of the day that it was the Festival of the Three Kings of the= =20 East; whereupon Mary made the following entry in her Diary: - > On the 7th of this month I was elected President of the British=20 > Theosophical Society. The 7th was Epiphany Sunday, the Festival of the Ki= ngs. A strange=20 > coincidence and augury. >=20 > "21 Avenue Carnot, Paris, January 11, 1883.<< =20 =20=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun Jan 01 17:54:00 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21732 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2006 01:53:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2006 01:53:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth02.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.62) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2006 01:53:59 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth02.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EtEtR-0006Iz-Ki; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 20:53:50 -0500 To: Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 17:53:36 -0800 Message-ID: <00cc01c60f3f$5c82f380$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High In-Reply-To: X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79109b3ef3d2ba5e5f41be230daccd0822350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.62 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: Kindly: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=5ccRB4hOTxPBbXHwcvXkq7FIOrzAqHcM0nuLMIQqeY0bZA X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/1/2006 5:02 PM Subject: Re: Kindly: Mrs. Kingsford Dear John: Many thanks for the extensive quotes relating to Mrs. Kingsford. They are valuable for our records. Speaking of what is today termed "Theosophy" -- which is deemed by some to include "Theosophical history" -- let me say: -- =20 I know little of this beyond what is recorded in the various documents quoted -- concerning the interactions between early members of the T S, students of THEOSOPHY and chelas of the Masters, which had been drawn together by their Karma to help or hinder HPB and Masters' work. This produced the developments recorded in and about the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY in the early days.=20 I would venture to say that as long as HPB (with the Masters' backing) was at the helm, the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY and the THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT coincided. When HPB was forced out of India in 1884/5 things changed. Damodar reported that the Masters' influence was ebbing in Adyar. Soon thereafter he left. Adyar remained only a "shell." Any one can guess at wha= t followed. The center of activity (HPB) was removed to Europe and then to London. In America the work of Judge produced an enormous success for the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY -- with over 3,000 members of the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY -- more than anywhere else. I find a careful reading of the early volumes of the pamphlets, books and magazines then issued provide us all with the kind of hindsight an historia= n enjoys.=20 Also, to record these is one thing, to interpret them is another. I find on the whole, that interpretations without the actors presence (to explain themselves) usually leads present day imagination as to motives, far astray= . I am NOT a historian of personal events and personal opinions. So I am quite limited to such material as may have been printed or issued by contemporary writers, participants and observers. I am no interested in offering my opinions, as the printed words speak now for those who have died.=20 To my mind this kind of review and activity has very little to do with pure THEOSOPHY. Most of it is the result of the interaction and friction of personalities. It is, for me, a dead end and a time waste. Lets work in the present for the future, I say. I do investigate all I can find that directly relates to THEOSOPHY -- to make sure I understand and can grasp its premises, basis, philosophy and present operation -- considering it as a statement of FACTS and LAWS in Nature (Universe, and our World). So far I can state I am satisfied with the coherence I have found exists there. But my approach has always been critical, seeking to make sure that the whole is operating and united in concept and presentation. Of necessity, (to answer correspondence) I have had to accumulate and file documents and records relating to the books: -- THE THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT (1875 - 1950) THE THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT (1875 - 1925) and the series of articles that were printed in the very early volumes of THEOSOPHY magazine Los Angeles when Mr. Crosbie edited it. MAHATMAS AND THEIR MESSAGE , Vols, 2, 3, 4 THE THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT, Vols. 8 - 10 and covering a later period: AFTERMATH, Vol. 23=09 =09=09=09 Was it not Alaya who offered this quotation?=20 Best wishes for 2006, Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 -----Original Message----- From: samblo@cs.com Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 4:15 PM To:=20 Subject: Re: Kindly: Mrs. Kingsford Dallas, In your reply to Cass you Post an excerpt: <>H.P.B. did not have a very high opinion of Mrs. Kingsford.<< I would like to give a few examples to show it was otherwise: ------------------------------------------------- 1 A HREF=3Dhttp://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/hpb-tm/hpbtm-12.htm H. P. Blavatsky - Chapter 12-Anna Kingsford 5th Rounder http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/hpb-tm/hpbtm-12.htm According to K.H. in the Mahatma Letters, she was a "fifth rounder," a=20 technical theosophical term for those persons who have run ahead of the average=20 in evolutionary development, a fact of which she herself had more than a=20 suspicion.=20 -------------------------------------------- 2 In the Mahatma Letters on pages 345-7, K.H. pays Anna Kingsford a high=20 tribute for her intuitive seership. Here is one sentence:=20 Well may you admire and more should you wonder at the marvellous lucidity= =20 of that remarkable seeress, who ignorant of Sanskrit or Pali, and thus shu= t out from their metaphysical treasures, has yet seen a great light shining from=20 behind the dark hills of exoteric religions.=20 ----------------------------------------- 3 Anna Bonus Kingsford was President of the Theosophical Lodge of London: Not long before Olcott reached London in 1884, a complication had arisen in= =20 the London Lodge in regard to the presidency. Mrs. Kingsford had held the=20 office for some time in response to the expressed wish of the Masters as=20 indicated to Mr. Sinnett, though H.P.B. had disapproved of her occupation o= f the post=20 notwithstanding that she was the Masters' choice for the time. ----------------------------------------------------------- 4 H.P.B.'s notice of her death contains the following:=20 She was a Theosophist and a true one at heart; a leader of spiritual and=20 philosophical thought, gifted with most exceptional psychic attributes. . = . .=20 The first and most important [of her books] was "The Perfect Way, or the=20 Finding of Christ," which gives the esoteric meaning of Christianity. It sweeps=20 away many of the difficulties that thoughtful readers of the Bible must contend=20 with in their endeavours to either understand or accept literally the stor= y =20 . . . the circle of her mystically-inclined friends will miss her greatly,= =20 for such women as she are not numerous in the same century. The world in=20 general has lost in Mrs. Kingsford one who can be very ill-spared in this era of=20 materialism. -- Lucifer, II, 78-9, March 1888 << A HREF=3D"http://www.theosophical.org/theosophy/books/esotericworld/chapter13= /"> Theosophical Society in America: Chapter 13=20 http://www.theosophical.org/theosophy/books/esotericworld/chapter13/ As we sat there I felt the old signal of a message from the Master and saw= =20 that she was listening. She said: "Judge, the Master asks me to try and guess=20 what would be the most extraordinary thing he could order now?" I said, "That=20 Mrs [Anna Kingsford] should be the President of the London Lodge."=20 ------------------------------------- Mrs. Anna Bonus Kingsford (1846-1888), English mystical writer and doctor=20 of medicine, was the author (in collaboration with Edward Maitland) of The= =20 Perfect Way; or, The Finding of Christ (1882), an esoteric interpretation o= f Christianity. -Editor.]=20 ***she also Authored another below (John): Clothed With The Sun Index http://www.sacred-texts.com/wmn/cws/index.htm Readers of this forum may be interested in the perspective of Yeats relativ= e to Anna Bonus Kingsford ( I will only type the URL as my PC crashed earlier= =20 when I loaded the page, strictly a naunce of my PC not the Yeats Homepage) W. B. Yeats and "A Vision": The Hermetic Society http://www.yeatsvision.com/Herm.html Continueing: A HREF=3D"http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/maitland1913.htm">Anna Kingsford= , Madame Blavatsky and the Theosophists by Edward Maitland http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/maitland1913.htm The matter went no further at this time; but we were struck by learning=20 that Mary had been recognised by the mysterious chiefs of the Theosophical= =20 Society as "the greatest natural mystic of the present day, and countless ages in=20 advance of the great majority of mankind, the foremost of whom belong to th= e last race of the fourth round, while she belongs to the first race of the fifth=20 round."=20 Respecting that Society, the then President of the English Branch, our=20 valued friend, C. C. Massey, wrote as follows: -=20 "For the attitude of the Society towards all the religions of the world, I= =20 may refer you to the enclosed paper, 'Individuality of Branches,' now bein= g issued, along with the enclosed circular, to all our members. I believe there=20 would be much opposition among us to giving our own branch a sectarian=20 designation or direction. One grand aim of our Society is to show the underlying,=20 or esoteric, identity of all religious philosophies worthy of the name, and,=20 while respecting the particular forms or manifestations of the one truth, to=20 cut away the ground of sectarian antagonism which such partial or disguise= d presentations appear to contain. In India, Olcott has busied himself much with=20 what I take to be a Buddhist propaganda, though I believe he would not admit=20 this. Anyhow, there can be no doubt whatever that to Christianity, as=20 popularly understood and taught, we are all more or less opposed. We have two=20 beneficed clergymen of the Church of England among us, and they would probably say=20 that the popular form is capable of a true statement, and must be regarded= =20 as 'dispensational.' That is quite consistent with the discovery in it of = a true system of doctrine, which, however, would be such a 'new departure' a= s almost to amount to a second revelation. And that, I believe, would be the= =20 position accepted by yourselves as the writers of The Perfect Way. And I think=20 you will find the answer to the question, whether that position is=20 inconsistent with our regard for the Indian teachings, in the paper about the=20 'Individuality of Branches.' The liberty reserved to Branches cannot be denied to=20 individuals. I cannot, of course, conceal from myself that it is desirable that=20 our President should be in great sympathy with the acknowledged teachers o= f the=20 Society, - although, indeed, there is no one who is ready and able to teac= h us whom we should not be ready and able to acknowledge. Certainly I should= =20 not accept the statement that we look to 'Koot Hoomi,' or any one else, as the=20 'ultimate source of illumination.' But at present we are studying in his=20 school. It will be for our President to read to us the expositions which come=20 from that quarter, and of course we should look to her for a sympathetic, and=20 not a controversial, attitude towards them. That does not prevent her from=20 holding and pointing out any other aspect of truth, even in relation to them. "If I hear from Mrs. Kingsford, I may be able to satisfy her and you more= =20 fully on these points in my reply to her. I infer from your letter that th= e return to London will not be just yet, if you find the suitable quarters for her=20 health in the Engadine. We should have to set off the hope for her=20 restoration from this residence against the postponement of her appearance among us. I=20 most earnestly trust that the Providence which guards her work will also=20 secure her to us as its best agent." =20 The following is from the circular in which Mr. Massey notified the Society= =20 of his intention to nominate Mrs. Kingsford as its President: - =20 "I have now to give notice of an important proposition, which I shall submit=20 to the general meeting, in the earnest hope that it may meet with general= =20 and cordial approval, and in the belief that its adoption will conduce to the=20 future vitality, progress, and use of the Society. It is that Dr. Anna=20 Kingsford shall be elected President of the Society for the ensuing year. From=20 information I have received, I think there can be no doubt that this choic= e would=20 be acceptable to those with whom we are most anxious to come into direct=20 relations, while the knowledge many of ourselves possess of the genius, moral=20 force, and entire devotion to spiritual ideals of this accomplished lady seems=20 to designate her as the natural leader of a Society with beliefs and aims such=20 as ours. Nor are Dr. Kingsford's scientific attainments an unimportant=20 consideration to the body of students who see and desire to trace in occul= t phenomena an extension of the range of Natural Philosophy. It may also be= =20 allowable, in a private letter like the present, to refer to the well-know= n fact that=20 she is one of the literary authors of that remarkable work, The Perfect Way,=20 or the Finding of Christ. The general resemblance of the ideas there put=20 forward to the teachings which we are studying has been expressly acknowledged by=20 our Indian authorities. It is, however, scarcely necessary to observe that= =20 our selection of Dr. Kingsford will not imply unqualified acceptance of al= l her published opinions. We could never have at our head any marked=20 individuality, if members supposed that in electing a President they were so committing=20 themselves. On the other hand, as a result of this step, we may expect=20 important accessions to our ranks, and a union of forces which have lately been=20 tending in the same direction. It is, perhaps, quite unnecessary to urge a= =20 recommendation which will, I believe, be generally acceptable; but to all who may=20 think that my long connection with the Society, and intimate relations wit= h those most completely identified with its interest, entitle my opinion to any=20 consideration, I may say that I have not decided on making this proposal=20 without the most careful deliberation and consultation, and that I regard its=20 adoption as of vital importance. It only remains to add on this subject, that Dr.=20 Kingsford herself has, I rejoice to say, given a conditional consent to th= e nomination." The election of Mary as President, and myself as Vice-President, of what=20 was subsequently called the London Lodge of the Theosophical Society took place=20 at the first meeting in 1883, which fell on Sunday, January 7. We discovere= d in the course of the day that it was the Festival of the Three Kings of the= =20 East; whereupon Mary made the following entry in her Diary: - On the 7th of this month I was elected President of the British=20 Theosophical Society. The 7th was Epiphany Sunday, the Festival of the Kings. A strange=20 coincidence and augury. =20 "21 Avenue Carnot, Paris, January 11, 1883. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sun Jan 01 18:50:27 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5756 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2006 02:50:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2006 02:50:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.224) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2006 02:50:26 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n4.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jan 2006 02:50:15 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by mailer1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jan 2006 02:50:15 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.76] by mailer8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jan 2006 02:50:15 -0000 Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 02:50:14 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 216.155.203.224 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: Theosophy Magazine: Reprints of Volumes I-IV. Edited by Robert Crosbie X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=A2xeb9pHT1Gp-S8jqb5ilcxECCM2lKdVXMncXrOFMsK8OoUNGKD9PBPS X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Theosophy Magazine: Reprints of Volumes I-IV Edited by Robert Crosbie In 1909, Robert Crosbie (1849-1919) and a group of=20 Theosophical students founded the United Lodge of=20 Theosophists in Los Angeles, California. In November=20 1912, Mr. Crosbie founded the magazine "Theosophy,"=20 which he continued to edit until his death.=20=20 Read more at: http://blavatskyarchives.com/theosophymag.htm Daniel Blavatsky Study Center http://blavatskyarchives.com From compiler@wisdomworld.org Sun Jan 01 21:37:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: compiler@wisdomworld.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54330 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2006 05:37:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2006 05:37:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ams011.ftl.affinity.com) (216.219.253.186) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2006 05:37:16 -0000 Received: from [68.33.22.128] ([68.33.22.128]:14087 "EHLO wisdomworld.org") by ams011.ftl.affinity.com with ESMTP id S362021AbWABFhP (ORCPT ); Mon, 2 Jan 2006 00:37:15 -0500 Message-ID: <43B8CA3A.2696DB52@wisdomworld.org> Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 00:37:46 -0600 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 216.219.253.186 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Compiler Subject: "The Theosophical Movement"--"The Rising Cycle"--"Aftermath" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=46028585; y=g1R1CY5R4JzPRFYZhR_Wa-Q1uLpf8cGfnbM4JNmXtw7qruRNMUdz X-Yahoo-Profile: john_compiler_wisdomworld HERE'S SOME VERY IMPORTANT THEOSOPHICAL HISTORY: I hope that many readers, especially newcomers to theosophy, will find these three series of articles from THEOSOPHY magazine to be very informative and useful: (1) The Theosophical Movement (34-part series: 1920-22) (2) The Rising Cycle (13-part series: 1926-27) (3) Aftermath (10-part series: 1935) They are found in this link that goes to the 14th of 18 sections found on the "Additional" articles index page of my WisdomWorld.org web site: http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/index.html#14 ========================================== Dear newcomers to Theosophy: I sincerely do hope that my web site offers a well-rounded overall view of Theosophy and the Theosophical Movement. The 3 main links to everything on it are found below. Please know that I'm only the compiler of all the articles found on my web site; I'm not a scholar; and also that I personally do not like to take part in conversations, even though I do hope that what I present from time to time will help a little in the discussions being carried on by others. So please do not be insulted when I do not respond if someone addresses me, or addresses anything that is found in any of the articles on my web site; I leave that for others to deal with if they want to -- whether pro, con, neutral, friendly or unfriendly. John DeSantis (Compiler) ------- You may find a great deal of the Truth that you are searching for here: WisdomWorld.org web site (Main Page): http://www.wisdomworld.org This is the Index page of the "Introductory", "Setting the Stage" book, which was especially compiled for newcomers to Theosophy: http://www.wisdomworld.org/setting.html The page where "Additional" articles are slowly being added (which contains 18 sections that can each be clicked on at the top of the page in order to go directly down to them, as well as to get the link to any particular section that you may want to use in a posting on a discussion board, or in an e-mail to someone): http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/index.html "PUBLIC & PRIVATE ENTERPRISE DEVELOPMENT FORUM": This next link is to the most updated version of my economic proposal to humanity, a practical project to help our suffering world that I also consider to be Theosophical. In it you will find a new and unique, but mostly unknown, economic system model that might be able to put an end to involuntary poverty on earth. How? It presents a way to fully finance everything of importance that is needed in every nation. Because of this it's well worth pointing to. Please note that, for strategic reasons, of wanting it to have the best chance of being accepted by all peoples worldwide, no matter what their religious, philosophical, and scientific beliefs are, I've put it on a completely different web site; it contains no mention of, or link to, the Theosophy and the Theosophical Movement that is presented on my WisdomWorld.org web site: http://www.PublicAndPrivateEnterprise.org ------- From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Jan 02 03:57:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91530 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2006 11:57:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2006 11:57:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth02.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.62) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2006 11:57:47 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth02.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EtOId-0006lN-I2; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 06:56:28 -0500 To: Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 03:56:11 -0800 Message-ID: <00d901c60f93$8c5be680$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High In-Reply-To: X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79b8384cc4180aab8e367c0c9371bbf9c8350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.62 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: [bn-study] Re: Happy New Year to All X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=GKEidHuQ812NN9nJK0vzx1ODPnM-H18zaxc1tY9XXDr4ig X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/2/2006 2:42 AM Dear C Z and friends: Have you considered looking at=20 PATANJALI'S YOGA SUTRAS=20=20 which deal extensively with meditation and the many states of consciousness that are within our understanding and control?=20=20 I give below some interesting extracts on this marvelous study in the potentials of our human consciousness and its universal scope. Best wishes for 2006, Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D PATANJALI'S YOGA SUTRAS [ available at:=20 PHOENIX=A0 ULT=A0=A0=A0=A0at=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0www.phx-ult-lodge.org/s =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Original editions of Theosoph= ical Books & Texts,=20=20 "on line" -- free: SECRET DOCTRINE HPB ISIS UNVEILED HPB FIVE YEARS OF THEOSOPHY HPB, etc. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 KEY TO THEOSOPHY & GLOSSARY HPB MODERN PANARION=A0 HPB =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 THEOSOPHICAL GLOSSARY HPB TRANS OF BLAVATSKY LODGE=A0 HPB VOICE OF THE SILENCE HPB =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY=A0 Judge =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS AT AN=20 INFORMAL "OCEAN " CLASS R C =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 POINT OUT THE WAY Ans. to=20 Questions at "Ocean" Class J G =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 BHAGAVAD GITA=A0 Judge BHAGAVAD GITA NOTES Judge =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 ECHOES FROM THE ORIENT Judge =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 EPITOME OF THEOSOPHY Judge LETTERS THAT HAVE HELPED ME Judge=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 PATANJALI'S YOGA SUTRAS Judge =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 THEOSOPHICAL FORUM=A0 --=A0 answers by=A0 Judge=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 DHAMMAPADA=A0 ( Footfalls of the Law )=A0 Gautama B= uddha LIGHT OF ASIA, Arnold=A0 Gautama Buddha LIGHT ON THE PATH M C =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 FRIENDLY PHILOSOPHER R C UNIVERSAL THEOSOPHY R C [ For children ] =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 ETERNAL VERITIES=A0 R C Manual for ETERNAL VERITIES=20=09 BECAUSE -- for Children who ask Why? R C BOOK OF IMAGES Dhyan Garga TELL-TALE PICTURE GALLERY=20 =96Occult Stories by HPB and=A0 W Q J =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 History=20=20 THE THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT (1875 - 1950)=A0 ($ 6.00) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D From: EVERYDAY QUESTIONS ON=20=20 PATANJALI'S YOGA APHORISMS=20=20=20=20 =09=09 QUESTION WHAT is the real and essential difference between Eastern and Western psychology? That is, aside from the basis of reincarnation, wha= t would be a few primary differences, taking Patanjali as a type of Eastern psychology?=20 ANSWER The essential difference between the two is described in a few words of Chapter XIV of NOTES ON THE BHAGAVAD-GITA:=20 Both abound in classifications; those of the East are much more numerous than those of the West and cover a far wider field; Western psychology in its classifications refers solely to mental states. The psychology of the Gita and the ancient sages classifies the moral states, treating of the mental states as mere effects produced by moral conditions (p. 197).=20 A psychology which is founded on the study of moral conditions is immediately and practically related to conduct. Eastern psychology is therefore dynamic, not merely descriptive.=20 The BHAGAVAD GITA, rich in oriental psychology, is above all a treatise on action. Its purpose is to assist the reader in deciding what he ought to do= . Thus true study of Eastern psychology is impossible without living it as well. In her article, "PSYCHIC AND NOETIC ACTION," [HPB Articles, II, p. 7...] H.P.B. identifies the two great springs of human action, the higher and the lower. It is meant as a practical guide in the struggle for self-knowledge.=20 The classifications of WESTERN PSYCHOLOGY deal almost entirely with th= e psychic nature and the psycho-physical correlations of the lower man. It sets forth many details of psychic stimulus and response and describes typical human behavior in individuals and in the mass.=20 But Western psychology has no general doctrine of the nature of man, no clear concept of soul, no serious consideration of the moral struggle. An apt admission of the confusion of modern psychology is found in the words o= f the late William McDougall, himself a leader in the field. "It remains," he wrote in 1931, "a chaos of dogmas and opinions diametrically opposed, a jangle of discordant schools and sects; a field exploited by quacks and charlatans of every sort, preying upon the ignorance of a deeply interested public which knows not which way to turn for authoritative guidance."=20 EASTERN PSYCHOLOGY is the study of the mind as a principle in itself, in its relation to external and internal experience, and in relation to the Spirit or the Self. By understanding of the mind, the student learns to overcome its limitations=97its "modifications," as Patanjali calls them=97a= nd thereby becomes a free being.=20 This freedom is identical with knowledge, for it is the product of knowledge. True psychology, therefore, is inseparable from philosophy; is, in fact, a department of philosophy. In the West, psychology is the enemy o= f philosophy and the ally of the grossest materialism. It is this materialism of academic psychology which has delivered "a deeply interested public" int= o the hands of "quacks and charlatans of every sort," as McDougall says. Ther= e can be no true psychology without a philosophy of soul.=20 Q Is it possible for the public to be enlightened as to the psychic and mental enslavement which follows the misuse of psychological laws and principles?=20 A MENTAL ENSLAVEMENT, except for its extreme subtlety, is like any other enslavement. Its victims can be enlightened if they are beginning to be aware of their slavery and want to be free.=20 There is a high degree of enlightenment today regarding the evils of drink, but this does not prevent the increasing use of liquor in modern society.=20 Public enlightenment regarding false psychologies and harmful psychic practices will depend upon the public desire for knowledge on these subjects. It is probable that a general interest in true psychology will result only as a reaction to these abuses, to the excesses described by H.P.B. in the Five Messages to American Theosophists.=20 Meanwhile, students of the present day may spread the enlightenment provided in Theosophy as widely as they can, so that the suffering and the disillusioned will have opportunity to find the truth after bitter experience starts them on the quest.=20 Q If the moral nature is to be developed ahead of the intellectual, will it be necessary to change our entire educational system as it exists today?=20 A The task of subordinating intellectual to moral development is accomplished by individuals, not by "systems," educational or otherwise. Educational theory and practice may place obstacles in the way of natural development, but it cannot prevent men of will from reaching to the truth.= =20 When enough individuals place a higher value on moral integrity than on intellectual facility, the educational system will undergo the natural modifications required to introduce a similar emphasis in the schools.=20 Systems reflect the thoughts of men, they do not create them, except as "conditioning" operates as an influence in all human relations. Great moral changes come about, not by changing "systems," but by creative thought and action which lead men to rely on themselves instead of systems. Systems are only social habits=97no better, no worse, than habits of any other sort.=20 Q May the failure of Christianity be rightly attributed to false psychology, in view of the fact that its dogmas have destroyed self-relianc= e and all sense of individual responsibility?=20 A Christianity failed because it contracted the universal Christos principle, potential in every man, to a single historical personality, and made the moral evolution of all dependent upon the achievement of one. As the questioner intimates, this undermined self-reliance among Christians, with the logical effect of weakening individual responsibility.=20 Modern psychology is materialistic, largely because of the betrayal of the Western world by its priests, who so degraded and distorted the original psychology of the Gnostic Christians that modern thinkers felt it necessary to make an entirely new beginning in psychology, leaving out the soul, and even the mind, in order to avoid any resemblance to hated theological dogmas!=20 Q Why does Mr. Judge, in the Preface to the Aphorisms, speak of the mind as an "organ" Is not an organ "physical"?=20 A The mind is called an organ by Mr. Judge for the reason that mind is a substantial and dynamic principle, and not the mere abstraction o= f cognitive functions which modern psychology would have us accept as its meaning.=20 The power of Patanjali's psychological system is rendered into the Western idiom by Mr. Judge precisely in this way. HE PROVIDES AN "ANATOMY" OF THE MENTAL PRINCIPLE, AND BLUEPRINTS THE METHOD OF ITS CONTROL.=20 His Preface makes clear that for him, Patanjali's teaching was not merely a "theory of knowledge," but KNOWLEDGE ITSELF. Euclidean certainty of these aphorisms challenges the reader to basic decisions. One does not "read" or dabble in Patanjali.=20 This psychology has the precision of a treatise on engineering; obedience t= o its principles as stated is as crucial for soul-development as following th= e known laws of stress and strain in physical construction.=20 MIND IS THE PSYCHO-MORAL ORGAN OF THE EVOLVING EGO.=20 It is the link between Spirit and Matter, the principle of individuation, the source of all illusions and the means of overcoming them. Perfect control of the mind is the dynamic aspect of self-knowledge. Adeptship is simply the indivisible unity of mind and the spiritual will.=20 Q THE mind, it is said, is constantly modified by the perceptions of the senses (p. xii). When the Soul is without concentration, it is similarly modified by the senses via the mind ( p.3). When Soul is in control (xiii), is it the Mind or the Soul that controls sense? Aphorisms 3= 5 and 36 in Book I raise this point.)=20 CONCENTRATION A To say that "the soul has concentration" is to describe a condition under which the full energies of the matter-transcending self fin= d active expression through the mind. Therefore, there is no separate control over the senses by either "soul" or "mind"=97THE CONTROLLING ENTITY BEING INDIVISIBLE AS ATMA-BUDDHI-MANAS.=20 The difference between the "higher nature" and the "lower nature" resides in the power of creativity=97first distinguishing mark of the self-conscious being.=20 The "LOWER NATURE," expressing itself actively through a form of intelligence we call "latent" manas, is simply instinctual in behavior. Instinctual intelligence is never creative, but rather repetitive.=20 The modern school of behavioristic psychology has studied long and arduousl= y the nature of instinctual intelligence and pronounced that intelligence is derived from a conditioning process. This is quite correct. The error of "behaviorism" from a Theosophical point of view is simply that such a description becomes misleading if a further, and in this case, unwarranted assumption is also made=97that all intelligence is simply instinctual or repetitive, and that therefore all conditioning comes from external sources= . One of the "conditioning" factors in the formation of new habits of instinctual intelligence is the CREATIVE IMPULSE OF THE HIGHER MAN=97the ma= n who thinks in terms of progress and evolutionary growth=97the man who is qu= ite literally bored with a routine of sensations. New habits, on this view, are formed from within as the always new purposes of soul are given preference over the routinized purposes of the purely sensory self.=20 It is only when the Buddhi-Manasic center of self-consciousness is afraid t= o attempt the evolutionary growth for which it nevertheless secretly hungers, that the energies of Buddhi flow back through a passive mind, serving no evolutionary purpose, yet temporarily vivifying sensory pleasure. But since a denial of the purposes of the inner self is implicit in this process, suc= h intensifying of sensory pleasure is sufficiently frustrating to the soul nature to produce more actual neuroses than ever accrue from the too-stern disciplines over the lower self recommended by the "denial" theory of religious practice.=20 Q The Preface calls for sincere students and resolute students to gain the knowledge implied in Patanjali's Yoga aphorisms. Is it possible that there are today theosophists with the stamina to become true occultists, in order to help the world in the present critical cycle? If so= , what are they doing toward this end?=20 A A text to answer this question might be Mr. Judge's statement, that "the world of real occultists . . . goes on with the laborious process of sifting out the living germs from the masses of men. For occultists must be found and fostered and prepared for coming ages when power will be neede= d and pretensions will go for nothing."=20 Q Can we suppose that H.P.B. came simply to found a Movement of benevolent humanitarianism?=20 A The Third Object, read between the lines, or even as she stated its meaning in "Recent Progress in Theosophy" (see THEOSOPHY for October, pp. 445-46), suggests that the development of real occultists is the very heart of the Theosophic enterprise, for Brotherhood must not only spread as a sentiment; it must become a power.=20 When it is realized that the first step on the path to occultism is a deliberate and thorough inventory of one's qualifications for this high calling, then the self-imposed discipline of the Theosophic life may be recognized as being in fact that step.=20 It would be well to refer to the article, "WHAT IS OCCULTISM?" printed in THEOSOPHY, VIII,=20 p. 353, and to read Robert Crosbie on impersonality (The FRIENDLY PHILOSOPHER, p. 127), for a better understanding of what Mr. Judge may mean by "the living germs" on whom the future of the Theosophical Movement, of all mankind, maybe, will depend.=20 Q IT is said (Preface, xiii) that "KNOWLEDGE EXISTS AS AN ABSTRACTION."=20 This is not clear. It seems that there could be no knowledge without the knowers of it. On the other hand, if knowledge exists without knowers, wher= e does it exist. It is said that in the Astral Light are "all human actions and things, thoughts and circumstances fixed," but how could they be regarded as an "abstraction"?=20 A The "astral light" does not contain knowledge. Knowledge is a manasically-perceived relationship between the Buddhic element of the individual and "human actions and circumstances." Such relationships always pertain to the "moral" aspects of human evolution which are simply the specifics of interdependence.=20 But moral knowledge is never the exclusive possession of any individual, fo= r MORAL KNOWLEDGE RESIDES IN A GRASP OF PRINCIPLES THAT UNDERLIE ALL RELATIONSHIPS. Principles are "abstract" because they may be and are applie= d in all directions=97not just in certain specified instances=97by the beings= who seek to embody them.=20 A principle is not possessed by an individual=97he uses the principle, and what he "possesses" is simply the sum total of results caused by his application of the principle.=20 Therefore, unless it is perceived that knowledge resides in the world of principles rather than in the realm of specific actions, the only solution to the human moral problem would be an enforced conformity to categorically "good" actions. This latter tendency, the "materialization" of the moral equation, characterizes all revealed or authoritarian religions=97and moves towards the stultification of individual growth in the attainment of knowledge.=20 Knowledge, when attained, is in a definitive sense "abstract," because it resides in a grasp of principles rather than in a memorization of events. There is no knowledge without the grasp of a principle, and a principle is abstract, for the simple reason that if it is a principle it cannot be limited by any single embodiment.=20 All real scientific knowledge is "abstract" in origin, for it depends upon the establishment of laws.=20 To formulate a law means to discover a principle of relationship between apparently unrelated objects and motions. The knowledge of the scientist, measurable only by his discovery of abstract principle (since these principles never reside in objects or motions themselves), comes to him as he grasps the principle, not while he is engaged in sorting his "facts."=20 The word "abstract" should also be related to the word "metaphysical."= =20 METAPHYSICAL REALITIES, not physical realities, are primary. It is only by learning to think in terms of a metaphysical world of reality that man learns to raise himself above the instinctual level of animal behavior. Looking from below upward, all realities are very much "abstract," but that fact makes their attainment more, rather than less, necessary.=20 Q In Aphorisms 2 to 13 (Book I), "Mind" is represented as an internal tactile organ which conveys the properties of an object to the Perceiver by forming itself in the image of the object.=20 But this does not seem to be a "thinking" process, the latter being the action of logically relating the properties of an object to those of other objects or to successive states of the object itself. Thus the mind does no= t here appear as a "thinker," but only as a perceptive organ.=20 But again we are informed that the "soul" is in the same modification as th= e mind when objects are being perceived. Thus the "soul" does not seem to be the "thinker" either. The ultimate "Perceiver" we recognize as Atma; but, between the perceiving organ and the "Perceiver" there seems to be a missin= g link of thought. Are we to find it in a parallel definition of the "principles"?=20 A The word "mind," as used by Patanjali, has two meanings. The "tactile organ" is composed of a highly refined, tenuous substance=97referr= ed to in The Secret Doctrine as "fifth-state matter." But the man, the individual, is not a state of matter, nor a combination of states of matter= . MAN, AS THE CENTER OF SELF-CONSCIOUSNESS, is the causative and governing balance between various states of matter. An illustration may be offered: A lever is not even a potential mover of three-thousand-pound stones. When ma= n (or higher intelligence) is combined with the lever, the ability to handle such weights is at least potential. The lever of itself cannot move anything, nor can the man without the lever. Thus fifth-state matter is simply the medium through which mind must function, even though it (fifth-state matter) is also a conditioned aspect of intelligence itself, having the sixth, or Buddhic state of matter, for its substratum.=20 INDIVIDUALIZED MIND IS BUDDHI aware of the potentialities of fifth-state matter, and, through that mirror, of the other states of matter represented by the psychical and physical principles. Such "joining" or incarnation, however, "produces" a new principle, a new form of being which may be calle= d THE SELF-CONSCIOUS SOUL=97although the being is not new, but only the form = of being.=20 Patanjali asserts a philosophy of "dualism." Together with Krishna, as the latter sage speaks through the BHAGAVAD GITA, he teaches that all human beings have both a higher nature=97which is the same in all, and a lower nature composed of elements which are the same in all.=20 Man is the balance struck between the elements of the higher and lower natures, and therein resides the individuality.=20 THE MAN-ENTITY IS THE CENTER OF BEING, capable of consciously establishing new relationships between the higher and lower elements of the states of matter which surround him. The mind, then, is both a "tactile organ" or substance, and directive mind or soul=97the latter being more truly metaphysical.=20 The term BUDDHI-MANAS, as differentiated from Kama-Manas, is used to make this distinction clear.=20 Q In Aphorisms 2 and 6, it is said (a) that one of the five modifications of the mind is Correct Cognition, and (b) that the modifications of the mind must be hindered if concentration is to be achieved. Thus it would seem that in order to be perfected in concentration= , one must "hinder" Correct Cognition. Is, then, Correct Cognition undesirable?=20 A "Correct cognition" employs the analyzing, weighing, measuring aspect of the mind. INTELLECT IS INDIRECT PERCEPTION THROUGH COGNITION.=20 INTUITION IS DIRECT PERCEPTION.=20 The scientist, and also every man, can only use "correct cognition" as a means of opening up a passageway for intuition.=20 The ability to synthesize, wherein intuition is employed, is never a matter of establishing certain definitive, descriptive relationships betwee= n objects, events and beings. It is the manifestation of the power to combine essences of relationships in a single vision of meaning.=20 If "concentration" is only upon the mechanical potentialities of the mind-organ, the tendency to see only one relationship at a time between objects will binder the synthesis of intuition.=20 The mind, therefore, must be turned by philosophy to A CONSIDERATION OF PURPOSE=97the why of objective movements, in order to leave full opportunit= y for direct or synthesizing perception. This was the story, self-told, of Copernicus' discovery that the earth revolved around the sun.=20 Q In notes on Aphorism 17 (page 4): When "all lower subjects and objects are lost sight of, and nothing remains but the cognition of the self," does it mean a condition in which the will is, or is not, active?=20 A In simple psychological terms, the only INHIBITION OF THE WILL is ANXIETY or FEAR.=20 And man's fear is never fear of a thing, but simply doubt of his ability to meet the "thing" if it should confront him.=20 DOUBT OF ONESELF and fear of oneself are the anxieties of ignorance.=20 No man who faces and knows himself is "afraid." Dissatisfied with his present state he may be, but in such a case dissatisfaction is but a prelud= e to an invocation of will to correct matters. Death is "feared" when knowledge of the permanence of self is lacking or incomplete.=20 Thus fearlessness is the first quality assigned by Krishna as a requisite o= f successful discipleship=97for ONLY WHEN A MAN REALIZES THE INEXHAUSTIBLE PO= WER OF SOUL [BUDDHI-MANAS] CAN HE FULLY RELEASE THE WILL AND ATTAIN CONCENTRATION.=20 MEDITATION REPRESENTS THE QUALITY OF STEADINESS IN MENTAL AND MORAL STATES which must be the accompaniment of a will grown strong.=20 The common forms of will are not in action during meditation, but they are present in a very vital sense=97since their combined potential energies are being reconstituted for newer and more meaningful expression. This is the action of Soul, THE REGENERATION AND RECONSTITUTION OF THE WILL.=20 The full power of Soul [BUDDHI-MANAS] resides in the bonds of spiritua= l interdependence which reach out to and include all living things. All being= s are sources of our "individual" strength, though they are such sources only because they are united in "the divine unity"=97 the One Self, the Universa= l Will.=20 Thus attention engrossed in failures, doubts and ignorance is but a "hindrance." The will of the adept becomes fully active, because there is n= o corner of the wide universe where he fears to enter. Will, as the force of Spirit, moves in and from all beings in all states and conditions. But will= , in the individual, is often sundered, disparted, while it can be integral and concentrated.=20 Q Aphorism 21 (page 10): "The attainment of abstract meditation is speedy, in the case of the hotly impetuous." It does not seem natural that the "hotly impetuous" would be capable of attaining the state of abstract meditation. Why should not a calmer, steadier nature be better fitted to attain that state?=20 A Use of the term "hotly impetuous" would seem to first remind students that nothing is accomplished without passion. The fact that there are many kinds and qualities of "passions" is only to say that even a Buddh= a had first to desire to move toward universal understanding. The kingdom of heaven is always taken by violence, for there comes a time in the psychological life of every man when he must throw all trivial cautions to the seven winds. Yet it is necessary to remind ourselves that Patanjali is not implying that the person who is hotly impetuous in his relations to others can reach "abstract meditation." He is the man "hotly impetuous" in respect to his own inner battle. TO OTHERS, GENTLENESS, CALMNESS=97TO ONESE= LF, FIRE AND STEEL.=20 Yet even when the state of abstract meditation is attained, this state is but a field for future action, a condition of mind which can be used wisely or not depending upon the degree of maturity of the being who has reached that state.=20 The state of meditation differs for each individual according to why he has sought to reach it. If the "hotly impetuous" one desires the state as an acquisition, for instance, he will never attain it fully. If he desires it because he wishes to realize inner potentialities for the benefit of others as well as himself, his impetuousness may be simply a disinclination to be held forever in bondage to the energies of Kama.=20 Q Aphorism 17: Just how or what would be the thoughts of one who is pondering on the highest powers of the mind "together with truth in the abstract"?=20 A The "highest powers of the mind" provide the soul with the metaphysical "contours" of relationships with other selves.=20 The mind, when limited to functioning directly through the physical brain, can never directly perceive relationships between beings, since its sight i= s limited to the material effects of relationships and fails to illumine the fundamental nature of the beings involved.=20 "TRUTH IN THE ABSTRACT" might be regarded as representing the spiritua= l relationships between beings. The truth becomes constantly more "abstract," but at the same time, more "real," with each new awakening to enlightenment, since in the final analysis=97which is reduction of all to One Spirit=97beings are not "relate= d" at all, but identical in Atma.=20 Therefore the highest faculties of mind begin operation from A BUDDHIC PERCEPTION OF THE ONE, and proceed downward in consideration of the other "principles"=97 which comprise the "differences" between individual beings.= =20 The highest use of the mind proceeds, then, from this deductive basis, the inductive operation of intellectual faculties serving in proper balance ONL= Y WHEN THE ONE SELF OF ALL CREATURES IS THE INTERNAL POINT OF DEPARTURE FOR ALL REASONING.=20 The favoring of "deductive" reasoning, however, is a dangerous doctrine in an age corrupted by the acceptance of specific dogmas, unless it be made clear that there is only one basis which can be trusted for deductive use o= f the mind=97 THE BASIS OF AN ALL-PERVASIVE METAPHYSICAL UNITY IN SPIRIT.=20 Q Aphorism 50: Would worry be considered self-reproductive thought in the sense of Aphorism 50, and also what about the endless going over of past actions, usually to try to find justification for the acts performed Would not this be analogous to a kama-lokic condition, except tha= t one meditating thus would have the chance to "pull out" of the state, whereas in kama-loka the initial energy has to be exhausted there, the will being inactive?=20 =20=20=20=20=20 A Worry is not genuinely self-reproductive, for it is always sustained by fear of the encroachment of external factors.=20 Self-reproductive thought is inner generation. Self-reproductive thought, i= n the sense of this aphorism, means SPIRITUAL IDEAS, constantly generating an= d regenerating themselves from the inexhaustible reservoir of UNIVERSAL WILL, LOCATED IN ALL THAT WHICH IS INFORMED BY SPIRIT.=20 KAMA LOKA Kama-loka is only apparently a fully subjective state.=20 Actually it has been produced from former concerns about external things=97= all those things less than spirit and soul. Its substance=97that is, its appare= nt reality=97is simply the inevitable crystallization into semi-substantial fo= rm of ideas based on incorrect cognition.=20 Kama-loka is no more self-reproductive than is an astral or physical corpse= . It is possessed of residual energy, not creative energy, and will pass out of existence as soon as the magnetic currents which are its substratum lose their momentum.=20 [THEOSOPHY Vol. 35, p. 28, 81, 129, 180] =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: Captain Zen=20 Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006=20 To:=20 Subject: Re: Happy New Year to All Not just a H N Y, but I wish you=20 A very Happy Life Time,=20 From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Jan 02 04:18:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56921 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2006 12:18:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2006 12:18:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth02.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.62) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2006 12:18:59 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth02.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EtOcX-00034i-4N; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 07:17:01 -0500 To: "'Aspasia Papadomichelaki'" Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 04:16:43 -0800 Message-ID: <00da01c60f96$6b4d7ff0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High In-Reply-To: X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec794dda3f29c6a1d5f63505f56ec93e0aae350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.62 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: Athens X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=sY47HUzLJLFJz-_7VmC3zUiW8SVJBFQYTDlAxXh4ce9d4g X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/2/2006 3:56 AM Dear Aspasia: ROUNDS AND RACES was drawn from The OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY by Mr. Judge. Not mine !=20=20 He is indeed magnificent and The OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY ought to be read and used by all devoted students. It gives reliable information. It can be made the basis for talks on almost any subject theosophically considered. = =20 See also The EPITOME OF THEOSOPHY and SYNTHESIS OF OCCULT SCIENCE, both by Mr. Judge. Here is another one to consider: =20 THEOSOPHY GENERALLY STATED [From the Official Report, World's Parliament of Religions, 1893] =20 THE claim is made that an impartial study of history, religion and literature will show the existence from ancient times of a great body of philosophical, scientific and ethical doctrine forming the basis and origin of all similar thought in modern systems.=20 It is at once religious and scientific, asserting that religion and science should never be separated. It puts forward sublime religious and ideal teachings, but at the same time shows that all of it can be demonstrated to reason, and that authority other than that has no place, thus preventing th= e hypocrisy which arises from asserting dogmas on authority which no one can show as resting on reason.=20 This ancient body of doctrine is known as the "Wisdom Religion" and was always taught by adepts or initiates therein who preserve it through all time.=20 Hence, and from other doctrines demonstrated, it is shown that man, being spirit and immortal, is able to perpetuate his real life and consciousness, and has done so during all time in the persons of those higher flowers of the human race who are members of an ancient and high brotherhood who concern themselves with the soul development of man, held by them to includ= e every process of evolution on all planes.=20 The initiates, being bound by the law of evolution, must work with humanity as its development permits. Therefore from time to time they give out again and again the same doctrine which from time to time grows obscured in various nations and places. This is the wisdom religion, and they are the keepers of it.=20 At times they come to nations as great teachers and "saviours," who only re-promulgate the old truths and system of ethics. This therefore holds tha= t humanity is capable of infinite perfection both in time and quality, the saviours and adepts being held up as examples of that possibility. >From this living and presently acting body of perfected men H.P.Blavatsky declared she received the impulse to once more bring forward the old ideas, and from them also received several keys to ancient and modern doctrines that had been lost during modern struggles toward civilization, and also that she was furnished by them with some doctrines really ancient but entirely new to the present day in any exoteric shape. These she wrote amon= g the other keys furnished by her to her fellow members and the world at large. Added, then, to the testimony through all time found in records of all nations we have this modern explicit assertion that the ancient learned and humanitarian body of adepts still exists on this earth and takes an interest in the development of the race. Theosophy postulates an eternal principle called the unknown, which can never be cognized except through its manifestations. This eternal principle is in and is every thing and being; it periodically and eternally manifests itself and recedes again from manifestation. In this ebb and flow evolution proceeds and itself is the progress of the manifestation.=20 The perceived universe is the manifestation of this unknown, including spirit and matter, for Theosophy holds that those are but the two opposite poles of the one unknown principle. They coexist, are not separate nor separable from each other, or, as the Hindu scriptures say, there is no particle of matter without spirit, and no particle of spirit without matter= . In manifesting itself the spirit-matter differentiates on seven planes, eac= h more dense on the way down to the plane of our senses than its predecessor, the substance in all being the same only differing in degree. Therefore fro= m this view the whole universe is alive, not one atom of it being in any sens= e dead. It is also conscious and intelligent, its consciousness and intelligence being present on all planes though obscured on this one.=20 On this plane of ours the spirit focalizes itself in all human beings who choose to permit it to do so, and the refusal to permit it is the cause of ignorance, of sin, of all sorrow and suffering. In all ages some have come to this high state, have grown to be as gods, ar= e partakers actively in the work of nature, and go on from century to century widening their consciousness and increasing the scope of their government i= n nature.=20 This is the destiny of all beings, and hence at the outset Theosophy postulates this perfectibility of the race, removes the idea of innate unregenerable wickedness, and offers a purpose and an aim for life which is consonant with the longings of the soul and with its real nature, tending a= t the same time to destroy pessimism with its companion, despair. In Theosophy the world is held to be the product of the evolution of the principle spoken of from the very lowest first forms of life guided as it proceeded by intelligent perfected beings from other and older evolutions, and compounded also of the egos or individual spirits for and by whom it emanates. Hence man as we know him is held to be a conscious spirit, the flower of evolution, with other and lower classes of egos below him in the lower kingdoms, all however coming up and destined one day to be on the sam= e human stage as we now are, we then being higher still.=20 Man's consciousness being thus more perfect is able to pass from one to another of the planes of differentiation mentioned. If he mistakes any one of them for the reality that he is in his essence, he is deluded; the objec= t of evolution then is to give him complete self-consciousness so that he may go on to higher stages in the progress of the universe.=20 His evolution after coming on the human stage is for the getting of experience, and in order to so raise up and purify the various planes of matter with which he has to do, that the voice of the spirit may be fully heard and comprehended. He is a religious being because he is a spirit encased in matter, which is in turn itself spiritual in essence. Being a spirit he requires vehicles with which to come in touch with all the planes of nature included in evolution, and it is these vehicles that make of him an intricate, composit= e being, liable to error, but at the same time able to rise above all delusions and conquer the highest place. He is in miniature the universe, for he is as spirit, manifesting himself to himself by means of seven differentiations.=20 Therefore is he known in Theosophy as a sevenfold being. The Christian division of body, soul, and spirit is accurate so far as it goes, but will not answer to the problems of life and nature, unless, as is not the case, those three divisions are each held to be composed of others, which would raise the possible total to seven.=20 The spirit stands alone at the top, next comes the spiritual soul or Buddhi as it is called in Sanskrit. This partakes more of the spirit than any belo= w it, and is connected with Manas or mind, these three being the real trinity of man, the imperishable part, the real thinking entity living on the earth in the other and denser vehicles by its evolution.=20 Below in order of quality is the plane of the desires and passions shared with the animal kingdom, unintelligent, and the producer of ignorance flowing from delusion. It is distinct from the will and judgment, and must therefore be given its own place.=20 On this plane is gross life, manifesting, not as spirit from which it derives its essence, but as energy and motion on this plane. It being commo= n to the whole objective plane and being everywhere, is also to be classed by itself, the portion used by man being given up at the death of the body.=20 Then last, before the objective body, is the model or double of the outer physical case. This double is the astral body belonging to the astral plane of matter, not so dense as physical molecules, but more tenuous and much stronger, as well as lasting. It is the original of the body permitting the physical molecules to arrange and show themselves thereon, allowing them to go and come from day to day as they are known to do, yet ever retaining the fixed shape and contour given by the astral double within.=20 These lower four principles or sheaths are the transitory perishable part o= f man, not himself, but in every sense the instrument he uses, given up at th= e hour of death like an old garment, and rebuilt out of the general reservoir at every new birth.=20 The trinity is the real man, the thinker, the individuality that passes fro= m house to house, gaining experience at each rebirth, while it suffers and enjoys according to its deeds - it is the one central man, the living spirit-soul. Now this spiritual man, having always existed, being intimately concerned i= n evolution, dominated by the law of cause and effect, because in himself he is that very law, showing moreover on this plane varieties of force of character, capacity, and opportunity, his very presence must be explained, while the differences noted have to be accounted for.=20 The doctrine of reincarnation does all this. It means that man as a thinker= , composed of soul, mind and spirit, occupies body after body in life after life on the earth which is the scene of his evolution, and where he must, under the very laws of his being, complete that evolution, once it has been begun. In any one life he is known to others as a personality, but in the whole stretch of eternity he is one individual, feeling in himself an identity not dependent on name, form, or recollection. This doctrine is the very base of Theosophy, for it explains life and nature. It is one aspect of evolution, for as it is re-embodiment in meaning, and as evolution could not go on without re-embodiment, it is evolution itself, as applied to the human soul.=20 But it is also a doctrine believed in at the time given to Jesus and taught in the early ages of Christianity, being now as much necessary to that religion as it is to any other to explain texts, to reconcile the justice o= f God with the rough and merciless aspect of nature and life to most mortals, and to throw a light perceptible by reason on all the problems that vex us in our journey through this world.=20 The vast, and under any other doctrine unjust, difference between the savag= e and the civilized man as to both capacity, character, and opportunity can b= e understood only through this doctrine, and coming to our own stratum the differences of the same kind may only thus be explained. It vindicates Nature and God, and removes from religion the blot thrown by men who have postulated creeds which paint the creator as a demon.=20 Each man's life and character are the outcome of his previous lives and thoughts. Each is his own judge, his own executioner, for it is his own han= d that forges the weapon which works for his punishment, and each by his own life reaches reward, rises to heights of knowledge and power for the good o= f all who may be left behind him.=20 Nothing is left to chance, favor, or partiality, but all is under the governance of law. Man is a thinker, and by his thoughts he makes the cause= s for woe or bliss; for his thoughts produce his acts. He is the centre for any disturbance of the universal harmony, and to him as the centre the disturbance must return so as to bring about equilibrium, for nature always works towards harmony.=20 Man is always carrying on a series of thoughts, which extend back to the remote past, continually making action and reaction. He is thus responsible for all his thoughts and acts, and in that his complete responsibility is established; his own spirit is the essence of this law and provides for eve= r compensation for every disturbance and adjustment for all effects.=20 This is the law of Karma or justice, sometimes called the ethical law of causation. It is not foreign to the Christian scriptures, for both Jesus an= d St. Paul clearly enunciated it. Jesus said we should be judged as we gave judgment and should receive the measure meted to others. St. Paul said: "Brethren, be not deceived, God is not mocked, for whatsoever a man soweth that also shall he reap." And that sowing and reaping can only be possible under the doctrines of Karma and reincarnation. But what of death and after? Is heaven a place or is it not? Theosophy teaches, as may be found in all sacred books, that after death the soul reaps a rest. This is from its own nature. It is a thinker, and cannot during life fulfill and carry out all nor even a small part of the myriads of thoughts entertained. Hence when at death it casts off the body and the astral body, and is released from the passions and desires, its natural forces have immediate sway and it thinks its thoughts out on the soul plane, clothed in a finer body suitable to that existence. This is called Devachan. It is the very state that has brought about the descriptions of heaven common to all religions, but this doctrine is very clearly put in the Buddhist and Hindu religions.=20 It is a time of rest, because the physical body being absent the consciousness is not in the completer touch with visible nature which is possible on the material plane. But it is a real existence, and no more illusionary than earth life; it is where the essence of the thoughts of lif= e that were as high as character permitted, expands and is garnered by the soul and mind. When the force of these thoughts is fully exhausted the soul is drawn back once more to earth, to that environment which is sufficiently like unto itself to give it the proper further evolution.=20 This alternation from state to state goes on until the being rises from repeated experiences above ignorance, and realizes in itself the actual unity of all spiritual beings. Then it passes on to higher and greater step= s on the evolutionary road. No new ethics are presented by Theosophy, as it is held that right ethics are for ever the same. But in the doctrines of Theosophy are to be found th= e philosophical and reasonable basis for ethics and the natural enforcement o= f them in practice. Universal brotherhood is that which will result in doing unto others as you would have them do unto you, and in your loving your neighbour as yourself - declared as right by all teachers in the great religions of the world. WILLIAM Q JUDGE Lucifer, December, 1893 =20 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= - ---------- Best wishes for 2006=20 and may=20 Athens UNITED LODGE OF THEOSOPHISTS prosper and grow, you have a good list of monthly lectures outlined.=20=20 How are the study classes going ? Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 -----Original Message----- From: Aspasia [mailto:aspasia@theosophy.gr]=20 Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 3:42 AM To:=20 Subject: Athens U L T=20=20 Dear Dal, In return to your wishes for the New Year I also wish you all the best Your latest email, 31/12/05, on "Rounds And Races" is magnificent. From samblo@cs.com Mon Jan 02 04:35:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: Samblo@cs.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9222 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2006 12:35:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2006 12:35:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m18.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.208) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2006 12:35:09 -0000 Received: from Samblo@cs.com by imo-m18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.149.53c122c6 (58550) for ; Mon, 2 Jan 2006 07:34:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <149.53c122c6.30ea77f1@cs.com> Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 07:34:57 EST To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 6.0 sub 10512 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.138.208 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: samblo@cs.com Subject: Re: Theos-World RE: [bn-study] Re: Happy New Year to All X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=27151446 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dallas, I have little story that might interest you in regard to Patanjali Yoga Sutra. For Christmas I attempted to purchase two copies of I. K. Taimni's Science of Yoga - the Yoga sutra of Patanjali as gifts for two of my friends. I went Borders Bookstore and search their computer for the Book. I was of the opinion that this Taimni Book was everywhere and would never be absent from stores. To my surprise they had none in stock and their computer said this Title is no longer available by the Publisher which in this case was Theosophical Publishing Wheaton Illinois. I can't tell you how amazed and surprised I was, as much as we tell people to read Patanjali. So I went up the street to our quality New Age Bookstore the East-West Bookstore and found the same result, no Patanjali. Times change, how are people to get Patanjali if even Theosophy no longer prints it and distributes it to normal retail outlets? John [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Jan 02 04:53:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 35949 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2006 12:53:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2006 12:53:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth02.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.62) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2006 12:53:35 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth02.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EtPBb-0003id-4W; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 07:53:15 -0500 To: Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 04:52:59 -0800 Message-ID: <00de01c60f9b$7b632340$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High In-Reply-To: <001801c60ed3$341c3530$f301a8c0@p43ghz> X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec799164e531fdfc9f65171f8a29d713f176350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.62 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: Theos-World introduction X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=dvcxpFv_ZrCRazh0ua2zplI_8XGjMFpaiS6SnGQAQ-chjA X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/2/2006 4:40 AM Dear Amela: Allow me to offer a summary of Theosophical teachings for your consideration. (below). Then, may I draw your attention to Theosophical material on education you can access and read freely, "on line -- free" at PHOENIX ULT at www.phx-ult-lodge.org/s Original editions of Books, Texts "on line - free" [ For children ] ETERNAL VERITIES R C Manual for ETERNAL VERITIES=20=09 BECAUSE -- for Children who ask Why? R C BOOK OF IMAGES Dhyan Garga SECRET DOCTRINE HPB ISIS UNVEILED HPB FIVE YEARS OF THEOSOPHY HPB, etc. KEY TO THEOSOPHY & GLOSSARY HPB MODERN PANARION HPB THEOSOPHICAL GLOSSARY HPB TRANS OF BLAVATSKY LODGE HPB VOICE OF THE SILENCE HPB OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY Judge ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS AT AN=20 INFORMAL "OCEAN " CLASS R C POINT OUT THE WAY Ans. to=20 Questions at "Ocean" Class J G BHAGAVAD GITA Judge BHAGAVAD GITA NOTES Judge ECHOES FROM THE ORIENT Judge EPITOME OF THEOSOPHY Judge LETTERS THAT HAVE HELPED ME Judge=20 PATANJALI'S YOGA SUTRAS Judge THEOSOPHICAL FORUM -- answers by Judge=20 DHAMMAPADA ( Footfalls of the Law ) Gautama Buddha LIGHT OF ASIA, Arnold Gautama Buddha LIGHT ON THE PATH M C FRIENDLY PHILOSOPHER R C UNIVERSAL THEOSOPHY R C =09=20=20=20=20 TELL-TALE PICTURE GALLERY=20 -Occult Stories by HPB and W Q J History THE THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT=20 (1875 - 1950) =09=09=09=09=09 ---------------------------------------------------------- Summary =20 INTRODUCTION OF THEOSOPHY =20 =20 =20 1 BASICS =20 =20=20 As we can study it, Theosophy commences with the study of great principles. This is the safest way to begin all study. They are few and very clear but they underlie all life. =20 They are in the beginning of The SECRET DOCTRINE : Lets read together beginning with some points from H P B's Preface: =20 -------------------- =20 ANTIQUITY OF THEOSOPHY =20 =20 The antiquity of Theosophy made a first impression on us all. =20=20 =20 PAGES FROM A PRE-HISTORIC PERIOD. =20 "An Archaic Manuscript -- a collection of palm leaves made impermeable to water, fire, and air, by some specific unknown process -- is before the writer's eye. [ H P B looks at it.] =20 On the first page is an immaculate white disk within a dull black ground. On the following page, the same disk, but with a central point. The first, the student knows to represent Kosmos in Eternity, before the re-awakening of still slumbering Energy, the emanation of the Word in later systems. =20 The point in the hitherto immaculate Disk, Space and Eternity in Pralaya, denotes the dawn of differentiation. It is the Point in the Mundane Egg (see Part II., "The Mundane Egg"), the germ within the latter which will become the Universe, the ALL, the boundless, periodical Kosmos, this germ being latent and active, periodically and by turns. =20 The ONE CIRCLE IS DIVINE UNITY, from which all proceeds, whither all returns. Its circumference -- a forcibly limited symbol, in view of the limitation of the human mind -- indicates the abstract, ever incognisable PRESENCE, and its plane, the Universal Soul, although the two are one. Only the face of the Disk being white and the ground all around black, shows clearly that its plane is the only knowledge, dim and hazy though it still is, that is attainable by man. =20 It is on this plane that the Manvantaric manifestations begin; for it is in this SOUL that slumbers, during the Pralaya, the DIVINE THOUGHT, wherein lies concealed the plan of every future Cosmogony and Theogony.the term "Divine Thought," like that of "Universal Mind," must not be regarded as even vaguely shadowing forth an intellectual process akin to that exhibited by man. ." =20 =20 [H P B prefaces her "THREE FUNDAMENTALS" with these introductory ideas: ] =20 =20 "From the beginning of man's inheritance, from the first appearance of the architects of the globe he lives in, the unrevealed Deity was recognized and considered under its only philosophical aspect -- UNIVERSAL MOTION, THE THRILL OF THE CREATIVE BREATH IN NATURE. =20 Occultism sums up the "One Existence" thus: "Deity is an arcane, living (or moving) FIRE, and the eternal witnesses to this unseen Presence are Light, Heat, Moisture," -- this trinity including, and being the cause of, every phenomenon in Nature. =20 INTRA-COSMIC MOTION IS ETERNAL AND CEASELESS; COSMIC MOTION (THE VISIBLE, OR THAT WHICH IS SUBJECT TO PERCEPTION) IS FINITE AND PERIODICAL. =20 =20 ETERNAL EXISTENCE =20 =20 As an eternal abstraction it is the EVER-PRESENT; as a manifestation, it is finite both in the coming direction and the opposite, the two being the alpha and omega of successive reconstructions. Kosmos -- the NOUMENON -- has nought to do with the causal relations of the phenomenal World. It is only with reference to the intra-cosmic soul, =20 THE IDEAL KOSMOS IN THE IMMUTABLE DIVINE THOUGHT, THAT WE MAY SAY: "IT NEVER HAD A BEGINNING NOR WILL IT HAVE AN END." =20 With regard to its body or Cosmic organization, though it cannot be said that it had a first, or will ever have a last construction, yet at each new Manvantara, its organization may be regarded as the first and the last of its kind, as it evolutes every time on a higher plane . . . . =20 "The esoteric doctrine teaches, like Buddhism and Brahminism, and even the Kabala, that =20 THE ONE INFINITE AND UNKNOWN ESSENCE EXISTS FROM ALL ETERNITY, AND IN REGULAR AND HARMONIOUS SUCCESSIONS IS EITHER PASSIVE OR ACTIVE. =20 In the poetical phraseology of Manu these conditions are called the "Days" and the "Nights" of Brahma. The latter is either "awake" or "asleep." . =20 =20 MANY WELL-ORGANIZED CREATORS =20 The Buddhists maintained that THERE IS NO CREATOR, BUT AN INFINITUDE OF CREATIVE POWERS, which collectively form the one eternal substance, the essence of which is inscrutable -- hence not a subject for speculation for any true philosopher. =20 Upon inaugurating an active period, says the Secret Doctrine, an expansion of this Divine essence from without inwardly and from within outwardly, occurs IN OBEDIENCE TO ETERNAL AND IMMUTABLE LAW, and the phenomenal or visible universe is the ultimate result of the long chain of cosmical forces thus progressively set in motion. . To use a metaphor from the Secret Books, which will convey the idea still more clearly, =20 AN OUT-BREATHING OF THE 'UNKNOWN ESSENCE'=20 PRODUCES THE WORLD; AND AN INHALATION=20 CAUSES IT TO DISAPPEAR. =20 This process has been going on from all eternity, and our present universe is but one of an infinite series, which had no beginning and will have no end." . =20 =20 "GOD" =20 Parabrahm is not "God," because It is not "a God." "It is that which is supreme, and not supreme .IT IS "SUPREME" AS CAUSE, NOT SUPREME AS EFFECT. PARABRAHM IS SIMPLY, AS A "SECONDLESS REALITY," THE ALL-INCLUSIVE KOSMOS -- OR, RATHER, THE INFINITE COSMIC SPACE -- IN THE HIGHEST SPIRITUAL SENSE, OF COURSE. . =20 [The un-known] "Causeless Cause," is the oldest dogma in Occultism, millenniums earlier than the Pater-AEther of the Greeks and Latins. So are the "Force and Matter, as Potencies of Space, inseparable, and the Unknown revealers of the Unknown." They are all found in Aryan philosophy . =20 =20 SUMMATION OF MANIFESTATION =20 =20 An OCCULT CATECHISM contains the following questions and answers: =20 =20 "What is it that ever is?" "Space, the eternal Anupadaka." =20 "What is it that ever was?" "The Germ in the Root." =20 "What is it that is ever coming and going?" "The Great Breath." =20 "Then, there are three Eternals?" =20 "No, the three are one. That which ever is, is one, that which ever was is one, that which is ever being and becoming is also one: and this is Space." =20 "Explain, oh Lanoo (disciple)." -- =20 "The One is an unbroken Circle (ring) with no circumference, for it is nowhere and everywhere; the One is the boundless plane of the Circle, manifesting a diameter only during the manvantaric periods; the One is the indivisible point found nowhere, perceived everywhere during those periods; it is the Vertical and the Horizontal, the Father and the Mother, the summit and base of the Father, the two extremities of the Mother, reaching in reality nowhere, for the One is the Ring as also the rings that are within that Ring. Light in darkness and darkness in light: the 'Breath which is eternal.' =20 It proceeds from without inwardly, when it is everywhere, and from within outwardly, when it is nowhere -- (i.e., maya, one of the centres). It expands and contracts (exhalation and inhalation). When it expands the mother diffuses and scatters; when it contracts, the mother draws back and ingathers. =20 This produces the periods of Evolution and Dissolution, Manwantara and Pralaya. =20 The Germ is invisible and fiery; the Root (the plane of the circle) is cool; but during Evolution and Manwantara her garment is cold and radiant. Hot Breath is the Father who devours the progeny of the many-faced Element (heterogeneous); and leaves the single-faced ones (homogeneous). Cool Breath is the Mother, who conceives, forms, brings forth, and receives them back into her bosom, to reform them at the Dawn (of the Day of Brahma, or Manvantara). . . . ." =20 ---------------------- =20 =20 SEVEN COSMICAL ELEMENTS and PRINCIPLES =20 For clearer understanding on the part of the general reader, it must be stated that OCCULT SCIENCE RECOGNIZES SEVEN COSMICAL ELEMENTS -- FOUR ENTIRELY PHYSICAL, AND THE FIFTH (ETHER) SEMI-MATERIAL, as it will become visible in the air towards the end of our Fourth Round, to reign supreme over the others during the whole of the Fifth. The remaining two are as yet absolutely beyond the range of human perception. These latter will, however, appear as presentments during the 6th and 7th Races of this Round, and will become known in the 6th and 7th Rounds respectively.. =20 ------------------------- =20 =20 SECRET DOCTRINE TREATS OF OUR EARTH ONLY =20 =20 The reader has to bear in mind that THE STANZAS GIVEN TREAT ONLY OF THE COSMOGONY OF OUR OWN PLANETARY SYSTEM AND=20 WHAT IS VISIBLE AROUND IT, AFTER A SOLAR PRALAYA.=20 The secret teachings with regard to the Evolution of the=20 Universal Kosmos cannot be given, since they could not be=20 understood by the highest minds in this age.Therefore, that=20 which is given, relates only to our visible Kosmos, after a "Night of Brahma." =20 ----------------------------- =20 =20 Before the reader proceeds to the consideration of the Stanzas from the Book of Dzyan which form the basis of the present work, =20 =09 IT IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY THAT HE SHOULD BE MADE ACQUAINTED WITH THE FEW FUNDAMENTAL CONCEPTIONS WHICH UNDERLIE AND PERVADE THE ENTIRE SYSTEM OF THOUGHT TO WHICH HIS ATTENTION IS INVITED. =20 =20 These basic ideas are few in number, and on their clear apprehension depends the understanding of all that follows; therefore no apology is required for asking the reader to make himself familiar with them first, before entering on the perusal of the work itself. . =20 =20 The Secret Doctrine establishes=20 =20 THREE FUNDAMENTAL PROPOSITIONS: -- =20 =20 DEITY -- BE-NESS =20 (a) An OMNIPRESENT, ETERNAL, BOUNDLESS, AND IMMUTABLE PRINCIPLE ON WHICH ALL SPECULATION IS IMPOSSIBLE, SINCE IT TRANSCENDS THE POWER OF HUMAN CONCEPTION AND COULD ONLY BE DWARFED BY ANY HUMAN EXPRESSION OR SIMILITUDE. =20 It is beyond the range and reach of thought -- in the words of Mandukya, "unthinkable and unspeakable." =20 To render these ideas clearer to the general reader, let him set out with the postulate that THERE IS ONE ABSOLUTE REALITY WHICH ANTECEDES ALL MANIFESTED, CONDITIONED, BEING. This Infinite and Eternal Cause -- dimly formulated in the "Unconscious" and "Unknowable" of current European philosophy -- is the rootless root of "all that was, is, or ever shall be." It is of course devoid of all attributes and is essentially without any relation to manifested, finite Being. IT IS "BE-NESS" RATHER THAN BEING (in Sanskrit, Sat), and is beyond all thought or speculation. =20 This "Be-ness" is symbolised in the Secret Doctrine under two aspects. =20 On the one hand, absolute abstract Space, representing bare subjectivity, THE ONE THING WHICH NO HUMAN MIND CAN EITHER EXCLUDE FROM ANY CONCEPTION, OR CONCEIVE OF BY ITSELF. =20 On the other, absolute Abstract Motion representing Unconditioned Consciousness. =20 Even our Western thinkers have shown that Consciousness is inconceivable to us apart from change, and motion best symbolises change, its essential characteristic. This latter aspect of the one Reality, is also symbolised by the term "The Great Breath," a symbol sufficiently graphic to need no further elucidation. Thus, then, the first fundamental axiom of the Secret Doctrine is this metaphysical ONE ABSOLUTE -- BE-NESS -- symbolised by finite intelligence as the theological Trinity. =20 It may, however, assist the student if a few further explanations are given here. . =20 Parabrahm (the ONE REALITY, the ABSOLUTE) is the field of ABSOLUTE CONSCIOUSNESS, i.e., that Essence which is out of all relation to conditioned existence, and of which conscious existence is a conditioned symbol. =20 But once that we pass in thought from this (to us) Absolute Negation, duality supervenes in the contrast of Spirit (or consciousness) and Matter, Subject and Object. =20 SPIRIT (OR CONSCIOUSNESS) AND MATTER ARE, HOWEVER, TO BE REGARDED, NOT AS INDEPENDENT REALITIES, BUT AS THE TWO FACETS OR ASPECTS OF THE ABSOLUTE (PARABRAHM), WHICH CONSTITUTE THE BASIS OF CONDITIONED BEING WHETHER SUBJECTIVE OR OBJECTIVE. =20 Considering this metaphysical triad as the Root from which proceeds all manifestation, the great Breath assumes the character of precosmic Ideation. It is the fons et origo of force and of all individual consciousness, and SUPPLIES THE GUIDING INTELLIGENCE in the vast scheme of cosmic Evolution. On the other hand, precosmic root-substance (Mulaprakriti) is that aspect of the Absolute which underlies all the objective planes of Nature. =20 Just as PRE-COSMIC IDEATION IS THE ROOT OF ALL INDIVIDUAL CONSCIOUSNESS, so pre-Cosmic Substance is the substratum of matter in the various grades of its differentiation. =20 Hence it will be apparent that the contrast of these two aspects of the Absolute is essential to the existence of the "Manifested Universe." =20 Apart from Cosmic Substance, Cosmic Ideation could not manifest as individual consciousness, since it is only through a vehicle of matter that consciousness wells up as "I am I," a physical basis being necessary to focus a ray of the Universal Mind at a certain stage of complexity. Again, apart from Cosmic Ideation, Cosmic Substance would remain an empty abstraction, and no emergence of consciousness could ensue. =20 The "Manifested Universe," therefore, is pervaded by duality, which is, as it were, the very essence of its EX-istence as "manifestation." =20 But just as the opposite poles of subject and object, spirit and matter, are but aspects of the One Unity in which they are synthesized, so, in the manifested Universe, there is "that" which links spirit to matter, subject to object. =20 This something, at present unknown to Western speculation, is called by the occultists Fohat. It is the "bridge" by which the "Ideas" existing in the "Divine Thought" are impressed on Cosmic substance as the "laws of Nature." =20 Fohat is thus the dynamic energy of Cosmic Ideation; or, regarded from the other side, it is the intelligent medium, the guiding power of all manifestation, the "Thought Divine" transmitted and made manifest through the Dhyan Chohans, the Architects of the visible World. =20 Thus from Spirit, or Cosmic Ideation, comes our consciousness; from Cosmic Substance the several vehicles in which that consciousness is individualised and attains to self -- or reflective -- consciousness; while Fohat, in its various manifestations, is the mysterious link between Mind and Matter, the animating principle electrifying every atom into life. =20 The following summary will afford a clearer idea to the reader. =20 (1.) The ABSOLUTE; the Parabrahm of the Vedantins or the one Reality, SAT, which is.both Absolute Being and Non-Being. =20 (2.) The first manifestation, the impersonal, and, in philosophy, unmanifested Logos, the precursor of the "manifested." This is the "First Cause," the "Unconscious" of European Pantheists. =20 (3.) Spirit-matter, LIFE; the "Spirit of the Universe," the Purusha and Prakriti, or the second Logos. =20 (4.) COSMIC IDEATION, MAHAT OR INTELLIGENCE, THE UNIVERSAL WORLD-SOUL; THE COSMIC NOUMENON OF MATTER, THE BASIS OF THE INTELLIGENT OPERATIONS IN AND OF NATURE, also called MAHA-BUDDHI. =20 The ONE REALITY; its dual aspects in the conditioned Universe. =20 Further, the Secret Doctrine affirms: -- =20 =20 LAW -- BEING =20 (b.) The Eternity of the Universe in toto as a boundless plane; periodically "the playground of numberless Universes incessantly manifesting and disappearing," called "the manifesting stars," and the "sparks of Eternity." "The Eternity of the Pilgrim" is like a wink of the Eye of Self-Existence (Book of Dzyan.) "The appearance and disappearance of Worlds is like a regular tidal ebb of flux and reflux." (See Part II., "Days and Nights of Brahma.") =20 =20 "Pilgrim" is the appellation given to our MONAD (the two in one) during its cycle of incarnations. IT IS THE ONLY IMMORTAL AND ETERNAL PRINCIPLE IN US, BEING AN INDIVISIBLE PART OF THE INTEGRAL WHOLE -- THE UNIVERSAL SPIRIT, FROM WHICH IT EMANATES, and into which it is absorbed at the end of the cycle. When it is said to emanate from the one =20 =20 This second assertion of the Secret Doctrine is the absolute universality of that law of periodicity, of flux and reflux, ebb and flow, which physical science has observed and recorded in all departments of nature. An alternation such as that of Day and Night, Life and Death, Sleeping and Waking, is a fact so common, so perfectly universal and without exception, that it is easy to comprehend that in it we see one of the absolutely fundamental laws of the universe. =20 =20 Moreover, the Secret Doctrine teaches: -- =20 =20 EVOLUTION -- BECOMING =20 (c) The FUNDAMENTAL IDENTITY OF ALL SOULS WITH THE UNIVERSAL OVER-SOUL, the latter being itself an aspect of the Unknown Root; and THE OBLIGATORY PILGRIMAGE FOR EVERY SOUL -- A SPARK OF THE FORMER -- THROUGH THE CYCLE OF INCARNATION (or "Necessity") in accordance with Cyclic and Karmic law, during the whole term. =20 In other words, no purely spiritual Buddhi (divine Soul) can have an independent (conscious) existence before the spark which issued from the pure Essence of the Universal Sixth principle, -- or the OVER-SOUL, -- has =20 (a) passed through every elemental form of the phenomenal world of that Manvantara, and =20 (b) acquired individuality, first by natural impulse, and then by self-induced and self-devised efforts (checked by its Karma), thus ascending through all the degrees of intelligence, from the lowest to the highest Manas, from mineral and plant, up to the holiest archangel (Dhyani-Buddha). =20 THE PIVOTAL DOCTRINE OF THE ESOTERIC PHILOSOPHY ADMITS NO PRIVILEGES OR SPECIAL GIFTS IN MAN, SAVE THOSE WON BY HIS OWN EGO THROUGH PERSONAL EFFORT AND MERIT THROUGHOUT A LONG SERIES OF METEMPSYCHOSES AND REINCARNATIONS. =20 ------------------------ =20 This is important. =20 The great ideas and laws and history of the Universe and our earth are said to have been originally impressed b y the Great Dhyanis as "innate" -- divine ideas on the plastic minds of the Monads that will undergo their evolutionary effort here. =20 In the passage of time these are shown in The SECRET DOCTRINE to have been overlaid and distorted, and then, partially forgotten. But the myths and the lore of their existence has never been entirely lost. =20 If our minds are "limited" it is only as "brain-minds" as our CONSCIOUSNESS has to use the material of this plane and accept its limitations, while attempting to elevate it to WISDOM. =20 Archetypes are used, but those are always with us -- in Buddhi-Manas.=20 =20 Those are the divine imperishable innate ideas. They are our common property. They assure us of our spiritual origins and continued immortal existence and the pilgrimage we are on. They also remind us we are BROTHER= S to all beings. Hence, we share in all efforts towards the true and the ideal. =20 Idealism is the ONE UNIVERSAL MIND acting in all beings and coordinating Karmic action everywhere. It is MAHA-BUDDHI the vehicle of the ONE ATMAN. =20=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 =20 =20 GRADATIONS OF LEARNING AND RESPONSIBILITY=20 IN THE UNIVERSE. =20 =20=20 The levels and hierarchies of working Wise Men, Mahatmas, Buddhas, etc...and Great overseeing Forces are many, but every system speaks of these as facts: Since Theosophy is the most ancient do all systems, It offers : -- =20 THREE (3) FUNDAMENTAL PROPOSITIONS =20 =20 These are given in SECRET DOCTRINE, Vol. I , pp 14-19 to help us --=20 =20 H P B says that they pervade the entire system. =20 1. The Plan of the Universe in its evolution is a single plan. This plan has been established back in the beginning of "time," and it continues, and will continue into the foreseeable future. It is said that the Universe as a whole reincarnates, and this Plan was handed down a very long time back. The book The SECRET DOCTRINE describes this in detail in Vol. I. =20 2. All is logical, mathematically exact, and coherent. Law and laws rule all beings and actions impartially. The "Law of Karma" is the appellation given in Theosophy to this one universal LAW. =20 It is briefly described as the Law of Harmony whereby all diversity, and distortion is regulated and made smooth. At the end of LIGHT ON THE PATH will be found an illuminating essay on Karma. It helps us to understand if we read and think about what is said there. =20 3. No part, great or small, old or new, of the illimitable Universe is forgotten, or omitted from the Laws that guide evolution and individual progress. =20 All living intelligent beings are interconnected. Theosophy uses the word "Monad" to indicate these living, conscious units that fill the Universe. =20 Mankind, humanity stands at the mid-point in terms of intelligence between "instinct," and "intuition." =20 Each Monad that has reached the human level has this confronting him/her. The Masters of Wisdom met this challenge and passed it aeons ago. Yet they remain to help us, their "younger Brothers." We owe the exposition of Theosophy to Them and their sacrifice. [see S D I 207 -210] =20 4. From The UNIVERSAL ONE SPIRIT, everything in its vast diversity is derived. [S D I 14-15] =20 5. Potentially, every being has the capability of understanding the whole complexity of the Universe of which it is a vital part. =20 Spiritual Knowledge (or Wisdom) is inherent, innate at the core, in the essence of every being. " Look inward, Thou art Buddha ( the Wise)." expresses this. =20 We are related to the "Masters." They were once "men" such as we are now. They are our "Elder Brothers." =20 5. Hence all living things (the immortal Monads) are related. Brotherhood expresses this relation whether the level of learning be small or great. We are brothers in potential, as well as in fact, to the atoms, molecules, cells, and all the Masters, and other Personages, or structures of and in the Universe. It is difficult to conceive of such a supreme UNITY when our world is one of continual diversity and confusion. Our independent existence our consciousness, our Mind, ought to be adequate evidence of Spirit working through all levels of Matter. In our case, it becomes expressed as the Mind and the independent power of our free thought. The power to choose defines of progress into the future. Our present lesson is discovering what this right thought and right choosing. are. ["Good" has been briefly defined as obeying the Laws of nature.] We need to know and apply them. =20 6. The pathways through which the Monads travel to the final goal (called by some: "Sublime Perfection") are many, and are determined by their individual Karma -- the Karma of their own free choosing. Humanity is always composed of such "free-choosers." =20 7. Consciousness, awareness, "seeing along with," will be found to be a common factor for all beings, but the levels of achievement and of perception to which the consciousness is self-raised are many and mark the progress of and in evolution for every individual. =20 8. An individual may experience and remember seeing the ALL -- and may later describe it as LIGHT, COLOR, SOUND. or a discussion with a PERSONAGE of WISDOM. Such memories are stored and presented to the waking consciousness in terms that it can understand. But they do occur. Also they are never forgotten. They are evidence of the SPIRITUAL MAN WITHIN. =20 These "illuminations" as experience, are interior. They will be found to be described in TRANSACTIONS OF THE BLAVATSKY LODGE (pp. 64 -76; or : BLAVATSKY: Collected Works (TPH), Vol. 10, pp 255 -265) =20 At night during deep sleep the personal consciousness {Lower Manas} may confabulate for a while with its "brother" the Higher Manas -- BUDDHI-MANAS. The Buddhi-Manas is interior to us and is a veil or vase that enshrines the ATMA -- the RAY of the UNIVERSAL SPIRIT within each of us. It is an experience akin to Samadhi or Turiya. (see Gayatri verse) =20 Many have offered evidence of their memory of past lives. =20 The Responsibilities of advanced "Masters of Wisdom" are many and are described in S D Vol. I. =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 INNATE WISDOM & POTENTIALS =20 In each one of us lies the same potentials. At root base we are rays of th= e same ONE SPIRIT. We are all brothers. We are brothers to the Atoms, to th= e grains of sand, to the grass and to the elephant and the ant. In each of these resides a Monad, and that contains as one of its components a "Ray" o= f the UNIVERSAL SPIRIT. =20 This does away with all distinctions, and all concepts of difference, isolation, superiority, anger, pleasure, retaliation, difference, selfishness, etc... It unites us all into a living universal BROTHERHOOD. = =20 =20 It requires of us (as humans) the using of our ability to think about fundamentals and to secure the ability to penetrate below effects to their causes. For example. We all use electricity, but we do not know what it is= . It can be generated and channeled, but we still do not know WHAT IT IS. We all use FIRE, but, what is fire? We note the effect of fire (or its lack) and we know how to burn things, or insulate them. We deal with our won minds, but we do n to know what the MIND is. Nor are we very good at distinguishing a "DESIRE" from a thought. What, for instance is MOTIVE ? =20 And that (Universal Brotherhood) is the first "Object" of the THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT to live our lives and direct our thoughts and deeds as if we were trying to form a nucleus of Universal Brotherhood. This sounds vague, perhaps because we have been educated to think the territorial imperative and an adversarial approach was the way of life. If so, at the end of life what gain can we show?=20=20 =20 Look back into history. Whose memories do we esteem? The butchers of men, the oppressors and the conquerors, or those who try to make us see we belon= g to a single family and are all brothers and sisters with something far more powerful than a physical blood-brotherhood and kinship. Are religions and philosophies built on the sayings of tyrants or of those who explained and enjoined the practice of benevolence and the search for truth? =20 An understanding of the existence of the immortal MONAD in us, as in all things demonstrates to our mind this concept and reinforces the sense of tolerance. =20 =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Best wishes for 2006, Dallas --------------------------------- PS:=20=20 A school with objectives similar to yours was started 50 years ago by my sister Sophia TenBroeck in 1956 in Bangalore, India -- and it is still successfully conducted to date by its trustees. Write to -- and ask for their Prospectus and Curriculum:=20=20 (Please mention I asked you to inquire).=09 The Principal,=20 EAST-WEST SCHOOL,=20 1 B. P. Wadia Rd., Basavangudi, BANGALORE, 560,004, INDIA =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 -----Original Message----- From: Amela Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 4:59 AM To:=20 Subject: introduction Hello Well as my first email is my introduction I shall begin. My name is Amela. I am a highschool science teacher in Australia. I'm not sure how much detail is needed but If more information is requested I am happy to supply it.=20=20 There are two reasons why I have joined the list. The first reason is that I am seeking spiritual/intellectual growth.=20=20 The second reason is that I am delving into opening up a highschool based o= n an educational philosophy from an alternative school I used to teach at which closed (long story).=20=20 snip From amela@internode.on.net Mon Jan 02 05:24:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: amela@internode.on.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32114 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2006 13:24:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2006 13:24:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ash25e.internode.on.net) (203.16.214.182) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2006 13:24:22 -0000 Received: from p43ghz (ppp100-180.static.internode.on.net [150.101.100.180]) by ash25e.internode.on.net (8.12.9/8.12.6) with SMTP id k02DNt0b000460 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 2006 23:53:56 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from amela@internode.on.net) Message-ID: <001101c60f9f$ced3edd0$f301a8c0@p43ghz> To: References: <00de01c60f9b$7b632340$0a0110ac@DALLAS> Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 23:54:06 +1030 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1506 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-Originating-IP: 203.16.214.182 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Amela" Subject: Re: Theos-World introduction X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162161186; y=CKeKRUsTuan7Yfx6loVLskQ_0jT6fd2vMUGxgNuwuGGHgvc Dear Dallas, Thankyou so much for the information. I hope to contact the East-West school asap. Warm regards Amela ----- Original Message ----- From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" To: Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 11:22 PM Subject: RE: Theos-World introduction > 1/2/2006 4:40 AM > > Dear Amela: > > Allow me to offer a summary of Theosophical teachings for your > consideration. (below). > > Then, may I draw your attention to Theosophical material on education you > can access and read freely, "on line -- free" at > > snip > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Jan 02 05:30:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77391 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2006 13:30:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2006 13:30:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth02.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.62) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2006 13:30:41 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth02.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EtPgF-0004ln-VL; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 08:24:56 -0500 To: Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 05:24:40 -0800 Message-ID: <00df01c60f9f$e816e8b0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High In-Reply-To: <149.53c122c6.30ea77f1@cs.com> X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec798103df2fd7a1517c522912b38950dfee350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.62 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: PATANJALI YOGA-SUTRAS Re: Happy New Year to All X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=Z8pDTnShiX_655ZiJD-SG_QPdkVZfysr57ET058GgSHrtA X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/2/2006 5:12 AM Dear John: RE: PATANJALI YOGA-SUTRAS=20=20=20 What a story. Extraordinary. At U L T we have it ready all the time. Do you still need copies? See this: 1 ON LINE PHOENIX ULT at www.phx-ult-lodge.org/s Original editions of Books, Texts "free on line" SECRET DOCTRINE HPB ISIS UNVEILED HPB FIVE YEARS OF THEOSOPHY HPB, etc. KEY TO THEOSOPHY & GLOSSARY HPB MODERN PANARION HPB THEOSOPHICAL GLOSSARY HPB TRANS OF BLAVATSKY LODGE HPB VOICE OF THE SILENCE HPB OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY Judge ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS AT AN=20 INFORMAL "OCEAN " CLASS R C POINT OUT THE WAY Ans. to=20 Questions at "Ocean" Class J G BHAGAVAD GITA Judge BHAGAVAD GITA NOTES Judge ECHOES FROM THE ORIENT Judge EPITOME OF THEOSOPHY Judge LETTERS THAT HAVE HELPED ME Judge=20 PATANJALI'S YOGA SUTRAS Judge THEOSOPHICAL FORUM -- answers by Judge=20 DHAMMAPADA ( Footfalls of the Law ) Gautama Buddha LIGHT OF ASIA, Arnold Gautama Buddha LIGHT ON THE PATH M C FRIENDLY PHILOSOPHER R C UNIVERSAL THEOSOPHY R C [ For children ] ETERNAL VERITIES R C Manual for ETERNAL VERITIES=20=09 BECAUSE -- for Children who ask Why? R C BOOK OF IMAGES Dhyan Garga TELL-TALE PICTURE GALLERY=20 -Occult Stories by HPB and W Q J History THE THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT ( 1875 - 1950)=20=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D IN PRINT THEOSOPHY COMPANY www.theosophycompany.org www.ult.org (Photographic and verbatim original Theos. Texts) (Available in printed form.) The SECRET DOCTRINE HPB ISIS UNVEILED HPB KEY TO THEOSOPHY HPB VOICE OF THE SILENCE HPB H P B ARTICLES ( 3 Vols. ) HPB W Q J ARTICLES ( 2 Vols. ) Judge A MODERN PANARION HPB=20 FIVE YEARS OF THEOSOPHY HPB, etc., TRANS OF BLAVATSKY LODGE. HPB=20 LETTERS THAT HAVE HELPED ME W Q Judge=20 THEOSOPHICAL FORUM -- answers W Q Judge=20 THE DHAMMAPADA (Gautama Buddha) THE LIGHT OF ASIA (Gautama Buddha) THE THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT ( 1875 - 1950) History =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 BHAGAVAD GITA Judge BHAGAVAD GITA NOTES Judge PATANJALI'S YOGA SUTRAS Judge THEOSOPHICAL FORUM -- answers by Judge=20 At least you are assured of getting these at the U L T --=20 phone or write or send an e-mail. Best wishes, Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 -----Original Message----- From: amblo@cs.com Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 4:35 AM To:=20 Subject: Re: Happy New Year to All RE: PATANJALI YOGA-SUTRAS=20=20=20 Dallas, I have little story that might interest you in regard to Patanjali Yoga= =20 Sutra.=20 For Christmas I attempted to purchase two copies of I. K. Taimni's=20 Science of Yoga - the Yoga sutra of Patanjali as gifts for two of my friends.=20 I went Borders Bookstore and search their computer for the Book. I was of the=20 opinion that this Taimni Book was everywhere and would never be absent from stores.=20 To my surprise they had none in stock and their computer said this Title is no=20 longer available by the Publisher which in this case was Theosophical=20 Publishing Wheaton Illinois.=20 I can't tell you how amazed and surprised I was, as much=20 as we tell people to read Patanjali. So I went up the street to our quality= =20 New Age Bookstore the East-West Bookstore and found the same result, no=20 Patanjali.=20 Times change, how are people to get Patanjali if even Theosophy no longer=20 prints it and distributes it to normal retail outlets? John From eletzerich@yahoo.com Mon Jan 02 05:39:05 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: eletzerich@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37373 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2006 13:39:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2006 13:39:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web54113.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.39.51) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2006 13:39:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 87220 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Jan 2006 13:39:03 -0000 Message-ID: <20060102133903.87216.qmail@web54113.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [87.202.81.16] by web54113.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 05:39:03 PST Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 05:39:03 -0800 (PST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <00da01c60f96$6b4d7ff0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.39.51 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Erica Letzerich Subject: Re: Theos-World RE: Athens X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24163419; y=_3CpMLIDA_hb3oXPlgBUgO019JZNAFPFG-cX5kDEie2T01mCSA X-Yahoo-Profile: eletzerich Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Dallas, Thank you for the copy of the e-mail you sent me! Aspasia is doing a great work for the ULT here in Athens and my wish is one day T.S. and U.L.T. Best wishes for the new year! Erica Letzerich [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From eletzerich@yahoo.com Mon Jan 02 05:40:12 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: eletzerich@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 68183 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2006 13:40:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2006 13:40:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web54101.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.37.236) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2006 13:40:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 34205 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Jan 2006 13:40:04 -0000 Message-ID: <20060102134004.34199.qmail@web54101.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [87.202.81.16] by web54101.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 05:40:04 PST Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 05:40:04 -0800 (PST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <00da01c60f96$6b4d7ff0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.37.236 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Erica Letzerich Subject: Re: Theos-World RE: Athens X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24163419; y=hb-piD6gRiHmahi-mHzssyemGj4VaYgrQjYuZYK8IiAgWbVB-w X-Yahoo-Profile: eletzerich Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Dallas, Thank you for the copy of the e-mail you sent me! Aspasia is doing a great work for the ULT here in Athens. Best wishes for the new year! Erica Letzerich [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From samblo@cs.com Mon Jan 02 05:54:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: Samblo@cs.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41710 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2006 13:54:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2006 13:54:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m21.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.2) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2006 13:54:04 -0000 Received: from Samblo@cs.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.149.53c30918 (4402) for ; Mon, 2 Jan 2006 08:53:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <149.53c30918.30ea8a6f@cs.com> Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 08:53:51 EST To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 6.0 sub 10512 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.2 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: samblo@cs.com Subject: Re: Theos-World RE: PATANJALI YOGA-SUTRAS Re: Happy New Year to All X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=27151446 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dallas, Thanks for your response, I hope knowing your dedication to William Quan Judge you won't feel offended if I ask if ULT can supply the Taimni Patanjali which is my personal preference? If so can you send me the necessary order details so I can phone and place an order? John [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Mon Jan 02 07:41:33 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82700 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2006 15:41:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2006 15:41:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.43) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2006 15:41:32 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n9.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jan 2006 15:39:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by mailer5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jan 2006 15:39:27 -0000 Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 15:39:26 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.43 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: H.P. Blavatsky, the Mahatmas & the Theosophical Teachings: Introductory Articles X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=NXuC-bASQKDS8_fdOXRIpVMJVvKm24nEI0QvJhxS7YdhWmXXNkggbpTC X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell H.P. Blavatsky, the Mahatmas & the Theosophical Teachings: Introductory Articles & Material=20 See: http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/articleshpbtheosophy.htm Daniel Blavatsky Study Center http://blavatskyarchives.com From bartl@sprynet.com Mon Jan 02 10:34:00 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89476 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2006 18:33:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2006 18:33:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.64) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2006 18:33:59 -0000 Received: from [151.198.115.250] (helo=sprynet.com) by smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EtUVA-0003MM-K9 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 13:33:48 -0500 Message-ID: <43B9720E.2070902@sprynet.com> Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 13:33:50 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: 5be619ec394aa49c25eb773df4b61cbaff263bd4b5ddae46fec1c361fe00f799540b0f8a6f3b58b0350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.64 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Theos-World Kindly: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=690370; y=xdKHKl72ryYkA9UNRgj99bV9L3ysfG9oyb3Xc3IN5M_Xbiw X-Yahoo-Profile: bml07646 arhat_buddhism wrote: > The six are: senses. What are the six senses? Bart From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Mon Jan 02 10:50:11 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 60844 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2006 18:50:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2006 18:50:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mx01.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.11) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2006 18:50:10 -0000 Received: from 56347a74.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.122.116] helo=khidr6094418a5) by mx01.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1EtUeq-0000hJ-3A for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 19:43:51 +0100 Message-ID: <000601c60fcc$e6911290$747a3456@khidr6094418a5> To: References: Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 19:46:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.11 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "M. Sufilight" Subject: Re: Theos-World H.P. Blavatsky, the Mahatmas & the Theosophical Teachings: Introductory Articles X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=oLgClkf1TOp3RfUJT3iiDWzY1Gfhwb2ccMoJKkt4Z8jl X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Hallo Daniel and all, I can't find this quote in The Secret Doctrine at the named page. "... The Secret Doctrine is the Truth ... (II, 292) " http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/caldwelldthcd.htm Well I just came across the above issue one more time, and thought I would let you all know about it. :-) ******* Talking about core teachings, I would say, that it is interesting, that none of the major branches of theosophy, rejects the importance of The Bhagavad Gita. They all seem to hold it in high regard. And since The Bhagavad Gita is written by Vyasa it spells quality. Well, at least to me it does so. ******* A little ekstra info just to let you know: Santa was also on a christmas visit in India at the disputed avatar named Sathya Sai Baba. http://www.saicast.org/festivals.htm#051225pm (About 1 hour free video) http://www.saibabalinks.org/videoclips.htm (Many clips with materialisations) By contrast you will learn. Let us not mislead each other. :-) from M. Sufilight ----- Original Message ----- From: "danielhcaldwell" To: Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 4:39 PM Subject: Theos-World H.P. Blavatsky, the Mahatmas & the Theosophical Teachings: Introductory Articles > H.P. Blavatsky, the Mahatmas & the Theosophical Teachings: > Introductory Articles & Material > > See: > > http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/articleshpbtheosophy.htm > > Daniel > Blavatsky Study Center > http://blavatskyarchives.com > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Mon Jan 02 12:03:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 58541 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2006 20:03:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2006 20:03:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.42) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2006 20:03:28 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jan 2006 20:03:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.76] by mailer4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jan 2006 20:03:02 -0000 Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 20:03:01 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000601c60fcc$e6911290$747a3456@khidr6094418a5> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.42 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: Sufilight about the quote: "... The Secret Doctrine is the Truth ... (II, 292) " X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=yXb0gA4m5BDd--Eh2rm1yNcLnMEHENL8cyJKDg5rT8vVkFgsfdGwKSeC X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Sufilight,=20 You wrote: > I can't find this quote in The Secret Doctrine at the named page. > "... The Secret Doctrine is the Truth ... (II, 292) " > http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/caldwelldthcd.htm All the quotes on the above webpage are from ISIS UNVEILED. I wrote on that webpage: "I've appended below a number of excerpts from H.P.Blavatsky's first=20 great work, Isis Unveiled, showing how Madame Blavatsky viewed this=20 issue...." Daniel From mhart@idirect.ca Mon Jan 02 14:16:49 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: mhart@idirect.ca X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4736 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2006 22:16:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2006 22:16:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO twiddle.look.ca) (207.136.80.125) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2006 22:16:48 -0000 Received: from [209.29.158.80] (helo=fn) by twiddle.look.ca with smtp (Exim 4.20) id 1EtXyx-0003ul-3C for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 22:16:47 +0000 Message-ID: <000801c60fea$545bbce0$4a9c1dd1@fn> To: References: <43B9720E.2070902@sprynet.com> Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 17:16:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: mhart@idirect.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on omega.look.ca X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-100.0 required=9.0 tests=USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Version: 3.1 (built Tue Feb 24 05:09:27 GMT 2004) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes X-Originating-IP: 207.136.80.125 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Mauri" Subject: Re: Theos-World Kindly: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=60894584; y=disCyz97WHh7wnpmEolcUzM79mH9NAQF1Ge_2nqhUQULXQ X-Yahoo-Profile: sunzenn hearing, seeing, feeling, smelling, intuiting and ... er, speculating ... ? Speculatively, Mauri ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bart Lidofsky" To: Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 1:33 PM Subject: Re: Theos-World Kindly: > arhat_buddhism wrote: > > The six are: senses. > > What are the six senses? > > Bart From kier10@comcast.net Mon Jan 02 17:51:29 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: kier10@comcast.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46884 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2006 01:51:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2006 01:51:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rwcrmhc11.comcast.net) (216.148.227.151) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2006 01:51:27 -0000 Received: from usera62c0b3c73 (c-24-126-156-100.hsd1.ca.comcast.net[24.126.156.100]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2006010301223001300c74s6e>; Tue, 3 Jan 2006 01:22:30 +0000 Message-ID: <009301c61004$28d10b60$6401a8c0@usera62c0b3c73> To: References: <00b401c60ed2$06a7a950$0a0110ac@DALLAS> Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 17:22:27 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Originating-IP: 216.148.227.151 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "D****S KIER" Subject: Re: Theos-World RE Lord's Prayer X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=232467671 ----- Original Message ----- From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" To: Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 4:50 AM Subject: Theos-World RE Lord's Prayer > 1/1/2006 3:23 AM > > > > > > QUESTIONS: > > > > > > 1 I have often wondered why the Lord's Prayer contains the words, > "and lead us not into temptation." Why would the Lord lead us into > temptation, or "temporary sensation," as some have called it. Is this the > Almighty's way of testing us in order that our consciousness be > strenghthened? And I have always wondered why, when talking to God, many preachers assume that God only speaks Old English, and speak in Old English during their "prayers". D****s From bartl@sprynet.com Mon Jan 02 18:54:06 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88063 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2006 02:54:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2006 02:54:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.68) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2006 02:54:05 -0000 Received: from [151.198.115.250] (helo=sprynet.com) by smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EtcJI-0003tZ-Se for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 21:54:05 -0500 Message-ID: <43B9E74F.7000507@sprynet.com> Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 21:54:07 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: 5be619ec394aa49c25eb773df4b61cba0907f8965248115e599556a3bbc1caa35bff31af8927e75a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.68 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Theos-World ULT X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=690370; y=wj7QdfSMi6KgloFmewW8WYbzt6Q1AVbqYfpyF93JTItXROg X-Yahoo-Profile: bml07646 What city? Mark Hamilton Jr. wrote: > I missed my trip to the united lodge this month. > > I was very much looking forward to going. I was in the city quite > recently, but I would've missed my train if I had gone. I'll be in the > city again shortly, and will definately take the time to drop by next > time From silva_cass@yahoo.com Mon Jan 02 19:37:08 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 97552 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2006 03:37:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2006 03:37:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52112.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.115) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2006 03:37:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 65876 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Jan 2006 03:37:01 -0000 Message-ID: <20060103033701.65874.qmail@web52112.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [211.28.165.96] by web52112.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 19:37:01 PST Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 19:37:01 -0800 (PST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <003e01c60f0a$f522dc70$747a3456@khidr6094418a5> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.115 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Exoteric and Esoteric Teachers X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=IE4s38FoAxdRKjP2vNTzqub9yOCDJJUKfcOaLymYy4QrpeNBZQ X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Morten, and a happy new year. Perhaps with the ending of the Piscean and the commencement of the Aquarian age, theosophy became part of the new age thinking. Besant and Leadbeater drew people to the occult (new age) which at least was preferable to christian dogma, etc. I do not believe that many people would have managed the leap from christian dogmatism to esoteric occultism as taught by HPB. Either luck or good karma brought my teacher. She enabled me to see the deeper meanings within theosophical literature especially concerning teachings recorded by HPB. She saw, in retrospect, Besant as the bridge for Christians to recognize the esoteric teachings behind all religions. Without this hand over the bridge many would have failed to commence the journey of truth, while still being able to hold on to their inherited beliefs. I believe it to be a great leap of faith for many to reject one philosophy before accepting another to replace it. I believe Leadbeater also contributed to the aquarian thinking by his "thought forms" and "auras". His clairvoyance on this subject provided a "picture into the occult" for new agers. Hopefully they provided the stepping stones for seekers to start on the path of occult teaching, albeit the exoteric. True seekers would eventually look to HPB and the Masters for deeper truths, so perhaps, in a round about way, Besant/Leadbeater, pointed the way to at least thinking outside of the square. For that we can thank them. I suppose it raises the question of whether or not they filled a necessary niche in the evolution of "many" souls. The "many" seem to need parables, diagrams and pictures. The few soon tire of the lower siddhis and begin the truly esoteric search for truth, understanding and meaning, which HPB and the Masters provided. The Masters or was it HPB who said that the teachings in the Secret Doctrine and Isis Unveiled were written for students 100 years into the future, and here we are 100 years later! Morten and Frank, thanks for your contribution, very helpful and concise. Cass "M. Sufilight" wrote: Hallo Anand and all, I have been pondering your reply a bit. I do not agree so much with you, this time. I think Cass earlier made a reply, which deserves attention. But, let us see, what you can reply with. This is my answer. 1. Anand wrote: I agree with this point. But question was who was/is second teacher. Most probably second and real teacher was Annie Besant who was appointed, proved by her calibre and work. However I think Masters would send somebody time to time, some teacher to carry out work of Theosophy. TS was never meant for dependence on one leader only. It was always considered as society that would go on for hundreds of years. Obviously it will need real teachers and I think it will get. My Sufilight answer: I agree, that the Masters from time to time send out emmisaries or direct agents. That is my knowledge. But, I find It to be somewhat fruitless to assume, with words like "Most probably", about this issue. I say this in a friendly manner - even if it is true, that it could be guiding someone. If one doesn't really have Knowledge about this issue one aught to prepare oneself for this Knowledge. This is Learning how to Learn. Intellectual assumtions will not help us much. I will add, that it should not be ruled out, that more than one person from different organisations could be said to the second Teacher or Teachers. Each of them taking care of the various groups of Seekers and their needs on more than one non-linear level. Even if I know who the teachers are or was it would not help, that much if I told just anyone about it. There is time, place and circumstances etc. to talk about such knowledge. This is not the place and time etc. as I understand it. 2. Anand wrote: Immediately after Blavatsky's death, a sect or cult was formed. She did not want it. But her writing is such that sect or cult automatically forms among her students. Annie Besant spoke and wrote against cult, sect. But in ULT, Pasadena TS, there were always some individuals who tried to create sect or cult. And some Blavatsyans in Adyar TS have also become very dogmatic. My Sufilight answer: The use of the word "automatically" I find here to be problematic, because it could be misunderstood. I would rather say, that ofshoot cults or sects was created because global Karma made it necessary. If people want to create a cult, they do so. And many of the cults followers does often not know, that it is a cult.:-) Else I think we agree on that. On Annie Besant being a second teacher, - I would compare for instance the content of Blavatsky's article on "Chelas" with the total litterary outlet, which Besant allowed to be created together with Leadbeater during her time of leadership. The article by Blavatsky is here: http://www.blavatsky.net/blavatsky/arts/Chelas.htm An excerpt from Blavatsky's article: "Indeed the goal set before the Chela is not the acquisition of psychological power; his chief task is to divest himself of that overmastering sense of personality which is the thick veil that hides from sight our immortal part--the real man. So long as he allows this feeling to remain, just so long will he be fixed at the very door of Occultism, unable to proceed further." I hold it to be true, that Besant under her leadership allowed - perhaps through Leadbeater - litterary outlets, with a content which quite unfortunately way too much drove many Seekers into a witchhunt on exploration of ekstra sensory perception (ESP). While at the same time putting the methaphysical and esoterical teachings on Gupta-Vidya too much into the background. Not to mention the emotionally oriented ceremonials, which was connected to TS Adyar during the leadership of Annie Besant. - And because of this TS Adyar ran into problems and secterian tendencies flourished within the society. At the same time we must remember, that there was a greater reform in a number of western european countries School-systems during the time of Besants leadership. A far greater number could read and write during Besants leadership than during the Blavatsky area. Even Annie Besant did herself an effort on this in India. In the Middle East and other parts of the globe developments of TS nature were more slow. This change of focus within the TS Adyar was in fact at least somewhat a deterioration of the theosophical teachings as they were forwarded by Blavatsky. Not that Besant and other lecturers during her time of leadership never taught real and genuine theosophy, on their level of understanding. So they did, and that was good. But, the deterioration happened. This deterioration however could be both a necessary and somewhat fruitful plan. Because many aspirants would be easier attracted to Theosophy and spread the news about theosophy around the globe. And Blavatsky teachings and other more genuine teachings was still available to the Seeker from TS Adyar's book production and within the TS libraries. However, empahsis has to be laid on the fact, that It is the spiritual quality among members of TS, which is important. Not so much the number of followers. Blavatsky once said something similar. So to me Annie Besant was not the Second Teacher in the sense, that she did not give irrefutable evidence on Gupta-Vidya. Certainly not. But, maybe you have something else to offer Anand? I might have missed something? This said, I know also, that a Master from time to time hides behind emotionally oriented ESP cults - and act as an more or less vissible guide to the cults future destiny. Emotional ESP cults using the name Theosophy has a vital importance when compared to the real Theosophical groups which a direct agent and clear continous contact with the Masters. This simply because they are connected to each other. This should be underlined. But an emotional ESP cult using the name Theosophy - is still just an emotional ESP cult. 3. Anand wrote: You can easily guess which groups are frozen. Adyar TS has taken precaution by printing Freedom of Thought on every Theosophist issue. But that alone is not sufficient. There are some more things they should do to stop formation of dogma and cult. My Sufilight answer: Interesting answer you have there Anand. Could you expand on what Adyar TS should do to "stop formation of dogma and cult"? And please do also expand on why I should merely - guess - which groups are frozen? I hope my answer was helpful. from M. Sufilight with a strange clairvoyant look...and a happy laughter... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anand Gholap" To: Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 3:01 PM Subject: Theos-World Re: Forget HPB & her writing, consider Besant as founder & move on > Hello Morten, > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight" > theosophy@s...> wrote: >> >> Hallo Anand, >> >> Thanks. >> >> About the second Teacher I will say this: >> >> "The bitter truth is that before man can know his own inadequacy, > or the >> competence of another man or institution, he must first learn > something >> which will enable him to perceive both. Note well that his > perception itself >> is a product of right study; not of instinct or emotional > attraction to the >> individual, nor yet of desiring to 'go it alone'. This > is 'Learning How To >> Learn." >> (from 'Learning how to Learn' by Idries Shah) > > I agree with this point. But question was who was/is second teacher. > Most probably second and real teacher was Annie Besant who was > appointed, proved by her calibre and work. However I think Masters > would send somebody time to time, some teacher to carry out work of > Theosophy. TS was never meant for dependence on one leader only. It > was always considered as society that would go on for hundreds of > years. Obviously it will need real teachers and I think it will get. > >> >> >> Then the next questions of mine comes forward again. >> Here I take the three next of the 15-16 questions to ponder or > contemplate. >> >> A. >> Who are being or has been mistaken for being the "second teacher" > within >> theosophical teachings, but are or was in fact only promoting a > theosophical >> Cult, (emotional and what not) - with merely social and > psychological >> teachings as the main objective? >> >> B. >> And who has been or are promoting The Theosophical Society merely > as an >> emotional cult and was this creation of a cult in accordance with > the >> original ideas or with the wisdom teachings? > > Immediately after Blavatsky's death, a sect or cult was formed. She > did not want it. But her writing is such that sect or cult > automatically forms among her students. > Annie Besant spoke and wrote against cult, sect. But in ULT, > Pasadena TS, there were always some individuals who tried to create > sect or cult. And some Blavatsyans in Adyar TS have also become very > dogmatic. > > >> >> C. >> Who are merely frozen in the development of the furtherance of the >> theosophical teachings (the doctrine of "business-as-usual") - and > not >> knowing to be so? >> >> >> Or I could ask which groups or organisations if any are involved > in this? > > You can easily guess which groups are frozen. Adyar TS has taken > precaution by printing Freedom of Thought on every Theosophist > issue. But that alone is not sufficient. There are some more things > they should do to stop formation of dogma and cult. > > Anand Gholap >> >> >> >> from >> M. Sufilight with the Seekers after Truth... >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Anand Gholap" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 1:29 PM >> Subject: Theos-World Re: Forget HPB & her writing, consider Besant > as >> founder & move on >> >> >> > Hello Morten, >> > Article is interesting. Indeed major problem for most is who is >> > second and real teacher mentioned here. >> > >> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight" >> > theosophy@s...> wrote: >> >> >> >> Hallo Anand and all, >> >> >> >> My views are: >> >> >> >> I think we have been talking about these issues before here at >> > Theos-talk. >> >> >> >> Maybe Anand, other participants to this thread as well as > various >> >> theosophists could be helped >> >> by reading a previous email of mine to this place: >> >> http://theos-talk.com/archives/200409/tt00536.html >> >> (And read also the links within the emails) >> >> Especially this one: >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/17916 >> >> >> >> An major excerpt from the last link are given in the below >> >> It is in part about what happened when Blavatsky died > physically: >> >> >> >> "After the disappearance from the field of a teacher of Wisdom, >> > the >> >> followers >> >> will divide themselves into groups, in accordance with their >> > strength and >> >> weaknesses. Some will assume control of others. They may be good >> > or bad, and >> >> this will be shown by their reaction to - the second teacher - >> > when he/she >> >> arrives. >> >> If they realise he/she is their teacher, then they have merely >> > been >> >> developing >> >> themselves and can mature. But if they have become atrophied, > they >> > will be >> >> too >> >> blind to recognize the Spirituality of the very teacher, for > which >> >> appearance >> >> they have been prepared. They may attach themselves, in default, >> > to a >> >> different >> >> group. (And this groups existence is maybe no coincidence.) > Again >> > well and >> >> good >> >> : providing they return to the mainstream of teaching when it is >> > offered to >> >> them >> >> again. This is the test of whether they have overcome the lower >> > self. They >> >> will >> >> realise, if they are sufficiently developed, that the person who >> > appears to >> >> be >> >> 'second' teacher is in reality - the first in importance. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> Life is reversed for the undeveloped man (the newcomer), and >> > he/she will >> >> behave >> >> in accordance with this. The first teacher does not make life >> > easier, in >> >> most >> >> cases, for the generality of disciples. He/She will teach them >> > things, which >> >> are >> >> only of use when the second teacher arrives and reality falls > into >> > place. >> >> The >> >> object of this is twofold. In the first place, certain valuable >> > thoughts >> >> have >> >> been given to the disciples. In the second, they are tested by > the >> > means of >> >> these ideas. Just as our western psychologists give odd-shaped >> > pieces of >> >> wood to >> >> people, to see how they put them together, teachers of Wisdom > will >> > give >> >> odd-pieces of material of - mental kind - to his/her > followers. - >> > If they >> >> try to >> >> fit these together however, and to make a pattern in his/hers - >> > absences, - >> >> they >> >> are becoming 'fossilised'. Because, the Wisdom tradition has to >> > show that >> >> the >> >> object of mankind is not to construct idols, but to follow a >> > supreme >> >> pattern, >> >> which is learnt piece by piece. >> >> >> >> When a system of teaching of wisdom is in a period of > fallowness, >> > because >> >> the >> >> one who propagated it is dead, then there comes a period of >> > stagnation. This >> >> period can last between 10 years, 15 years or more. In the time, >> > which >> >> passes, >> >> the group of people who is affected by the system are sieved by >> > natural >> >> means. >> >> Some wander away. Others carry on automatically not really >> > knowing, what >> >> they >> >> are doing. They are now 'frozen', though they do not know they > are. >> >> The blind may try to lead the blinder. This takes the form of >> > assumption of >> >> authority by those who were given some sort of authority in the >> > original >> >> mandate. These are the people in the most dangerous position, >> > because the >> >> longer >> >> they remain 'orphaned' the more strongly their lower self (or > the >> > three >> >> lower >> >> bodies) asserts it self. >> >> Others may modify the teachings in a learned and personal way. >> > Some >> >> certainly >> >> fall a prey to cults, which have come into being in order to > serve >> > them. The >> >> people who joins these are at great pains to explain why they >> > consider, that >> >> they represent the same kind of teaching - and this is > important. >> > It is >> >> important, because it shows the Theosophist or the real >> > spiritually minded, >> >> very >> >> clearly, that the people who try to explain - are in fact > troubled >> > by >> >> conscience. Somewhere inside them, they know, that they are >> > identifying >> >> themselves with an imitation, or a second-best. But they are >> > supported by >> >> their >> >> lower bodies or lower personality, - and this is too strong for >> > them. >> >> Those can be helped by being lead to think in new thinking- >> > patterns and >> >> systems. >> >> It is via the conscience, that one finds the path forward, - >> > thereby will be >> >> able to remove the limitations of the lower personality." >> >> >> >> And again: >> >> So very important: The use of ideas is to shape a man or woman, >> > not to >> >> support a >> >> system - which is viewed in a limited manner. This is one way in >> > which the >> >> Wisdom Tradition is 'living', and not just the perpetuations of >> > ideas and >> >> movements. This seems important to understand and know about. >> >> >> >> My views is: >> >> Dead-letter teachings has never been the hallmark of real >> > theosophy. >> >> There is actually no need to use the very words "theosophy" or >> >> "Theosophical" >> >> when TODAY forwarding true and honest teachings (related to > time, >> > place and >> >> people mind you) >> >> about the Path or Atma-Vidya etc... >> >> Today a number of wellmeaning Theosophists forget too much to >> > CLEARLY point >> >> this out to Seekers they themselves teach or guide. >> >> >> >> What we don't need is the create yet a new set of branches each > of >> > them >> >> being sort of >> >> "Bible-collection"-studying sects accepting only dead-letter >> > teachings (as >> >> main teachings) >> >> containing the words "Theosophical" or "theosophy" as a > NECESSITY. >> >> And with each sect using their own Bible-collection. >> >> >> >> Another excerpt trying to some how escape business as usual: >> >> "So how is the development of The Theosophical Soceity and > various >> >> theosophical groups going to be in the future - IF - we as a >> > minimum base >> >> our views on my above email - while keeping the link to J.J. van >> > der Leeuw >> >> pamphlet in the first link in the above in mind? >> >> >> >> We could with some adavantage ponder on the following questions: >> >> 1. Who is (or was) the "second teacher(s)" - if any - within >> > Theosophy? - >> >> And will there be or has there been a third, fourth or fifth >> > teacher? >> >> 2. Who are being or has been mistaken for being the "second >> > teacher" within >> >> theosophical teachings, but are or was in fact only promoting a >> > theosophical >> >> Cult, (emotional and what not) - with merely social and >> > psychological >> >> teachings as the main objective? >> >> 3. And who has been or are promoting The Theosophical Society >> > merely as an >> >> emotional cult and was this creation of a cult in accordance > with >> > the >> >> original ideas or with the wisdom teachings? >> >> 4. Who are merely frozen in the development of the furtherance > of >> > the >> >> theosophical teachings (the doctrine of "business-as-usual") - > and >> > not >> >> knowing to be so? >> >> 5. Who have merely been writing interpretations on the >> > theosophical >> >> teachings in a learned manner since HPB died - and had success > in >> > building >> >> an marked increase in support to the theosophical cause? >> >> 6. - And who have merely been writing interpretations on the >> > theosophical >> >> teachings in a learned manner since HPB died - but failed to > build >> > an marked >> >> increase in support to the theosophical cause? >> >> 7. Is your conscience not telling you that a teaching which are >> > labelled as >> >> "secondary" is not as good as a teaching named "primary" - >> >> with a "primary" and up-to-date Teacher guiding you? (A Teacher >> > who is >> >> alive - and - not living in the past guiding you with "past" >> > teachings.) >> >> 8. Have you actually matured visibly as a Seeker beyond the >> > average >> >> fellow-human-beings level of consciuosness just by reading a few >> >> theosophical books or even one hundred of them? And do all > Seekers >> > who do >> >> that mature beyond that level? >> >> 9. Can real theosophical teaching happen in randomly collected >> > groups - >> >> where the listeners are not in harmony with each other, the >> > teacher, time, >> >> place and circumstances? (Are it just not merely information >> > stimulating the >> >> intellect which are being exchanged?) >> >> 9. Can the blind lead the blinder? (Maybe it is good to be > honest >> > about how >> >> blind one is.) >> >> 10. Do you not need a - real - teacher first? >> >> 11. Can Universal Brotherhood be created or is it just merely a >> > dream with >> >> all those theosophical sects (and Sisterhoods >:-)...) around in >> > the world? >> >> Sects because they do not openly tell the Seekers how they > relate >> > to other >> >> theosophical groups year 2004. >> >> 12. Will the Theosophical Societies and other theosophical > groups >> > create a >> >> good furtherance of its teachings through promotion of so- >> > called "spritiaul >> >> Master Revelations" presented or treated by various Theosophical >> > leaders as >> >> an authority? (What was good in the good old days - is maybe not >> > good >> >> today.) >> >> 13. Is the furtherance of the theosophical teachings based on >> > giving more >> >> emphasis to the opening of the spiritual Heart, love and > unselfsh >> > healing >> >> more than what can be termed "business-as-usual" or the > spiritual >> > support of >> >> emotional get-to-gethers? >> >> 14. How aught one to promote oneself as a Teacher of theosophy? >> > And how not? >> >> 15. How do I promote Theosophy at work? Through social-get- >> > togethers? >> >> >> >> >> >> My views are: >> >> Answering these questions will provide material enough to write === message truncated === --------------------------------- Yahoo! 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Shopping [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From bartl@sprynet.com Mon Jan 02 21:12:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85105 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2006 05:12:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2006 05:12:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.68) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2006 05:12:10 -0000 Received: from [151.198.115.250] (helo=sprynet.com) by smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EteSF-0007Zy-QU for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 03 Jan 2006 00:11:28 -0500 Message-ID: <43BA0782.1040809@sprynet.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 00:11:30 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: <75.5342bce3.30e9ac24@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <75.5342bce3.30e9ac24@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: 5be619ec394aa49c25eb773df4b61cba385f51621dce6b83014dfa5b8c4f096c85709c4405726f5b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.68 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Theos-World Kindly: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=690370; y=XJStDh-i4WiQ8EKQUK5iuVFpAgJpuPkeZIS02ZKLiYZQQT4 X-Yahoo-Profile: bml07646 Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > What would you expect HPB to say in an obituary? "She was a nutbar who > nearly made us all look like complete morons and the Masters are so terribly glad > she died?" All things considered, yes. Bart From waking.adept@gmail.com Mon Jan 02 22:45:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: waking.adept@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81869 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2006 06:45:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2006 06:45:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO zproxy.gmail.com) (64.233.162.200) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2006 06:45:00 -0000 Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id n1so1939401nzf for ; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 22:44:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.237.13 with SMTP id o13mr344746qbr; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 22:44:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.123.10 with HTTP; Mon, 2 Jan 2006 22:44:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 01:44:58 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <43B9E74F.7000507@sprynet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <43B9E74F.7000507@sprynet.com> X-Originating-IP: 64.233.162.200 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Mark Hamilton Jr." Subject: Re: Theos-World ULT X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219719026 New York City. -Mark H. On 1/2/06, Bart Lidofsky wrote: > What city? > > Mark Hamilton Jr. wrote: > > I missed my trip to the united lodge this month. > > > > I was very much looking forward to going. I was in the city quite > > recently, but I would've missed my train if I had gone. I'll be in the > > city again shortly, and will definately take the time to drop by next > > time > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > -- Mark Hamilton Jr. waking.adept@gmail.com From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Jan 03 03:37:40 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40201 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2006 11:37:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2006 11:37:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth02.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.62) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2006 11:37:39 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth02.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EtkTn-0007FE-9v; Tue, 03 Jan 2006 06:37:27 -0500 To: Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 03:37:11 -0800 Message-ID: <00f601c6105a$0e3ede20$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High In-Reply-To: <43B9720E.2070902@sprynet.com> X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79cb909c6d2d8956c8b456cf53e66f7b93350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.62 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: 6 senses in man Kindly: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=QAIM2DBKiVa6xV2sWhNfw29qpsg7F1aYSd55cWsPd97mSA X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/2/2006 12:57 PM Re: significance of numbers 6 and 9 RE: 6 senses in man Kindly: Dear Friends: Inquiries about the meaning of numbers and letters of the alphabet (sounds) may be assisted by reference to the very good SECRET DOCTRINE INDEX published by=20 Theosophical Publishing House in Pasadena THEOSOPHICAL UNIVERSITY PRESS =20 www.theosociety.org/tupress/tupress@theosociety.org=20 ---------------------------------------- references in the SECRET DOCTRINE=20 SIX (senary) II 580, 582 derived fr a seventh II 628=20 directions of space I 118=20 emblem of physical nature II 591=20 naros cycle & II 619=20 no stability in, alone II 628=20 principles in man II 616=20 sacred to Venus II 592=20 666 & Beast I 655n; II 619=20 symbolizes animating principle II 583=20 symbolizes Earth II 581=20 symbolizes swastika II 587=20 world created according to I 407 SIX-POINTED STAR.=20 See also Double Triangle, Hebdomad dual nature of man, symbol of II 533=20 first emanated Logos I 215=20 Fohat center of I 216=20 six powers, planes, etc I 215=20 snow crystals & II 594 ------------------------------------------- NINE Aryan Hindu explanation of I 114-15 &n=20 decimal system of I 361=20 in Egyptian cat symbolism II 552 &n=20 figures & zero form universe I 99=20 kabbalistic symbolism II 217=20 number of male generative energy I 114; II 217=20 occult value of I 76=20 sacred number of being II 622 &n=20 svabhavat is one & nine I 98=20 various symbols of II 580-1 ------------------------------------------ COURTESY T U P=20=20 Best wishes, Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 -----Original Message----- From: Bart Lidofsky Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 10:34 AM To:=20 Subject: Re: Kindly: arhat_buddhism wrote: The six are: senses. What are the six senses? =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DTB HEARING, SEEING, TOUCH, SMELL, TASTE, and PERMEABILITY HPB explains in the SECRET DOCTRINE I 251, 258 " p. 251 FOUR DIMENSIONS OF SPACE. The Second Round brought forth and developed two Elements=97Fire and Earth= =97and its humanity, adapted to this condition of Nature, if we can give the name Humanity to beings living under conditions unknown to men, was=97to use aga= in a familiar phrase in a strictly figurative sense (the only way in which it can be used correctly)=97"a two-dimensional species."=20=20=20 The processes of natural development which we are now considering will at once elucidate and discredit the fashion of speculating on the attributes o= f the two, three, and four or more "dimensional Space;" but in passing, it is worth while to point out the real significance of the sound but incomplete intuition that has prompted=97among Spiritualists and Theosophists, and several great men of Science, for the matter of that *=97the use of the mod= ern expression, "the fourth dimension of Space."=20 To begin with, of course, the superficial absurdity of assuming that Space itself is measurable in any direction is of little consequence.=20 The familiar phrase can only be an abbreviation of the fuller form=97the "Fourth dimension of MATTER in Space." =86 But it is an unhappy phrase even thus expanded, because while it is perfectly true that the progress of evolution may be destined to introduce us to new characteristics of matter, those with which we are already familiar are really more numerous than the three dimensions. The faculties, or what is perhaps the best available term= , the characteristics of matter, must clearly bear a direct relation always t= o the senses of man.=20 PERMEABILITY Matter has extension, colour, motion (molecular motion), taste, and smell, corresponding to the existing senses of man, and by the time that it fully develops the next characteristic=97let us call it for the moment PERMEABILITY=97this will correspond to the next sense of man=97let us call = it "NORMAL CLAIRVOYANCE;" thus, when some bold thinkers have been thirsting fo= r a fourth dimension to explain the passage of matter through matter, and the production of knots upon an endless cord, what they were really in want of, was a sixth characteristic of matter. The three dimensions belong really bu= t to one attribute or characteristic of matter=97extension; and * Professor Zollner's theory has been more than welcomed by several Scientists --who ar= e Spiritualists=97Professors Butlerof and Wagner, of St. Petersburg, for instance.=20 =86 "The giving reality to abstractions is the error of Realism. Space and Time are frequently viewed as separated from all the concrete experiences o= f the mind, instead of being generalizations of these in certain aspects." (Bain, Logic, Part II., p. 389.) [252] popular common sense justly rebels against the idea that under any condition of things there can be more than three of such dimensions as length, breadth, and thickness.=20 These terms, and the term "dimension" itself, all belong to one plane of thought, to one stage of evolution, to one characteristic of matter. So lon= g as there are foot-rules within the resources of Kosmos, to apply to matter, so long will they be able to measure it three ways and no more; and from th= e time the idea of measurement first occupied a place in the human understanding, it has been possible to apply measurement in three direction= s and no more. But these considerations do not militate in any way against th= e certainty that in the progress of time=97as the faculties of humanity are multiplied=97so will the characteristics of matter be multiplied also. Meanwhile, the expression is far more incorrect than even the familiar one of the "Sun rising or setting." S D I 251-2 "And only during that Round will those higher senses, the growth and development of which Akasa subserves, be susceptible of a complete expansion. As already indicated, a partial familiarity with the characteristic of matter=97permeability=97which should be developed concurr= ently with the sixth sense, may be expected to develop at the proper period in this Round. But with the next element added to our resources in the next Round, permeability will become so manifest a characteristic of matter, tha= t the densest forms of this will seem to man's perceptions as obstructive to him as a thick fog, and no more." S D I 258 From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Jan 03 04:42:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90499 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2006 12:42:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2006 12:42:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth02.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.62) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2006 12:42:56 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth02.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EtlSa-0000qk-CI; Tue, 03 Jan 2006 07:40:17 -0500 To: "'Mary Hildebrandt'" Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 04:40:01 -0800 Message-ID: <00fe01c61062$d4dd9a50$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High In-Reply-To: X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79adfd1a873fb94aeb5cef34cd2c40a2d9350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.62 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: 2006 wish X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=44CnhDG7ZysY6Zsdfs03zlwyIAi1_0-ckdDn5ahpbfxOyA X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/3/2006 3:50 AM Dear Mary: Thanks -- got the phone # now we can use it.=20=20 It rained all yesterday here =96 about 2 inches =96 winds from a different direction uprooted trees and disrupted traffic =96 some flooding and mud slides. The Parade went though enveloped in ponchos. The Christmas poem was modified, but is not an original. We like it. Here is where it comes from: [THE ETERNAL VERITIES] It is a kind of text-book we have used at =93THEOSOPHY SCHOOL =93 -- usually Sunday mornin= gs 10.30 =96 12.00 -- for kids and adults. Here is a sample. [The whole book is available, free on line at www.phx-ult-lodge.org/s ] ------------------------------------------------ A CHRISTMAS LESSON =09 Toward Light and Life we move,=20 With hearts refreshed we sing, The seed-time of old Earth renewed=97 To all this message bring: Good will to all that lives; A waking-time of heart In service that the Masters teach,=20 Rejoice what e=92er the part. And this=97the Christ in all=97=20 And all men brothers be; One Source of Light and Life and Love!=20 The Soul=92s own radiancy! We shall find that all our =93special day=94 lessons are Cycles lessons. Wh= o knows what is the longest day in the year? Who knows what is the shortest?= =20 The ancients said that on these two days, the Sun stands still and trembles in the balance, before it turns on its journey, whether to the north or south again. So, we have the word from them in the Latin language, solstice= . (sol=97sun; sistere=97to stand) Of course, the Sun doesn=92t ever really st= and still, but seems to, as we watch it from the earth. So, also, the sun does not move at the rate it seems to us each day across the sky. It is the earth=92s turning on its axis every twenty- four hours that gives the appearance of the sun=92s moving. During the year, the sun=92s path changes in the sky. Now=97north of the equator, of course=97the sun is rising on the eastern horizon way down in t= he south, and shines in our south windows almost all day, because it sets far down south on the western horizon.=20 Comes the winter solstice, December 21st, and first thing we know, the sun begins to climb up the sky. In the spring-time, it makes its circuit from east to west at the very top of the sky. For three months, it moves by degrees up to the north. On what day, then, would you be expecting to see i= t rise farthest north, bringing light even into some of our north windows all the day?=20 Here, comes the summer solstice; the sun =93stands still,=94 and then moves= on toward the south, in its risings and settings. =91When the sun rises midway= of the horizon, and high in the sky, comes autumn, with its equinoctial storms= . Farther down to the south, moves the sun, till it can go no farther; again we have come to December 21st, to begin the real New Year, according to Nature=92s clock! Then it is, the seeds beneath the earth get a message fro= m the sun to germinate, although it will be months yet before the plants will venture forth above the soil. Most people celebrate the New Year according to men=92s =93clocks,=94 or calendars, on the first day of January, but the real New Year is on Decembe= r 21st, as we have seen. Two weeks after that=97fourteen days=97is another ki= nd of New Year, said the great Teacher of Theosophy, H. P. B. This was the Day when the great host of Shining Monads incarnated on earth, in the beginning= , she said. Now, the very ancient peoples=97Indians, Egyptians, Persians, Greeks, Americans, =97 thought of the sun as the Life-Giver to all growing things, = but they knew it to be only a symbol of the True Sun=97the One Light=97the Self= . They knew that the Self acts only through beings and that this great sun of our world was just an instrument, or lens for the True unseen Sun. And when they sang their hymns to the Sun in this cycle, it was with the thought of acting for the Self in every heart: =93That which giveth sustenance to the Universe and to ourselves, from whic= h all dot/i proceed and unto which all must re turn =97 That Thou Art. In the golden vase of thine earthly body may the pure Light of the Spiritual Sun shine forth, that thou may=92st know the Truth, and do thy whole duty, on t= he journey back to the Sacred Seat! =93 (Memory Verse*) At a later time, people came to think of all the forces and beings in the sun as making up one Being, which they worshipped as the Sun God=97much as some of your friends, perhaps, think of =93God=94 as a great good man outsi= de themselves =97 rather than as the Real Self =91within each and every being.= =92 It was on the 21st of December that the Sun-Gods went down under the earth, the ancients thought, to help the Souls=97the seeds=97imprisoned there. Remaining for three days, they came forth triumphant in all their glory, on December 25th. And this was the new birth of their Sun-Gods.=20 The Egyptians celebrated the Sun cycle by the singing of hymns to the image of an infant, symbolizing their Sun God, then born again. Now it seems very fitting, doesn=92t it, that an Elder Brother, who was bor= n into the world to be a teacher of the Three Truths, should have his birthda= y at the birth-time of the new sun- cycle?=20 That, anyway, is what the Catholic church fathers thought, when it was give= n to them to decide on a day to celebrate, nearly four hundred years after th= e birth of Jesus. No one really knew by then when He did come=97 neither the = day nor the year. Only very Wise Men know that, because they know the cycles. Yet, we know something about cycles=97so let us see what we shall discover = by recalling that it takes the sun about 25,868 years to travel through the signs of the Zodiac. There are twelve signs; so, dividing 25,868 by 12, we find that it must take about 2,155 years for the sun to move from one sign to the other. It seems as if the old world learns and forgets in that time, so that a wis= e Elder Brother has to come to remind it again of what it has forgotten; 2,15= 5 years is the cycle which marks the time when a messenger is needed.=20 Well, the Sun turned into the constellation of Pisces 255 B. C. (B. C. as w= e know, stands for Before Christ), and that means that a Wise One came somewhere around that time, before the year 1=97which is usually reckoned a= s the birth year of Jesus. Again, very close to 1900, [1897/8] the sun passed into the sign of Aquarius. So, it looks very much as if Jesus was born at least 150 years before they reckon his birth. Do you think it very strange we don=92t know just when Jesus was born? You see, such a Messenger is recognized only by a few at first; Jesus never wrote anything, and those who knew him did not write of him till long after he had died; so all we have is a few legends about him; and we can only kno= w he was a great Teacher by his wise sayings=97which are according to the Thr= ee Truths. Perhaps we think that we should recognize such an One!=20 Well, was there any Messenger teaching the Three Truths at the time the sun passed into Aquarius?=20 Yes; in 1875 Madame Blavatsky began to teach Theosophy, just as we are learning it now. She left her body in 1891 and she said that in the last quarter of this, our twentieth century, another Messenger would come to carry the work still further on, if those living up to that time are faithful in learning the truths of Theosophy and in spreading it over the world. Perhaps you very boys and girls will live to see that Messenger and know him! Anyway, you can learn and teach the boys and girls who will be me= n and women then how to know him. Both 1875 and 1975 come within the cycle of the Messenger. Now let us go back to the birth-time of Jesus, who was called. the Christ, the Illuminated One, because he had learned so perfectly that he knew only how to think every thought, and do every deed for and as the Self, before h= e entered that baby form in Bethlehem of Judea on the day now called Christmas=97 Christ=92s day. (.Mass=97the service.) Wise men knew the cycle then and were expecting this little one. So they came there from far eastern countries to greet the babe with gifts and thanksgiving. They gave him gold=97 as symbol of the sun; they gave him frankincense and myrrh, because these had mysterious healing qualities to protect him=97symbols of love and thoughtfulness, as all gifts should be.=20 Little did it mean to Wise Men that Jesus was born in a lowly manger, with patient oxen munching the sweet hay nearby; they knew that the glory of Jesus would never come from riches and lands, but from knowing and showing the treasures of the soul. And as they looked for the birth-place, they followed a star, which led them to where he lay=97that star called The Star= of Bethlehem. It is recorded that Jupiter and Saturn were in conjunction in this cycle=97= as you may re member Venus and Mercury were, not so very long ago, so that the= y looked like one bright star. This might happen again when the new Messenger=92s birth is near. All nature seemed to know that the cycle for the Messenger had arrived!=20 As Joseph, the father of the little Jesus, looked up into the air, the legend tells, he saw the clouds astonished, and the fowls of the air stopping in the midst of their flight. The sheep, while scattering, yet suddenly stood still, and as he looked into the river, he saw the kids with their mouths close to the water and touching it, yet not drinking. He saw a bright cloud overshadow the cave and suddenly it was in the cave, such a blinding light, that their eyes could not bear it. The stable was built int= o a rocky wall, you see. The oxen fell to their knees, and the shepherds sang hymns of rejoicing and= , to this day, the custom lasts of singing about the birth of Jesus=97and the= y say that on Christmas, alone of all days, always the oxen kneel. In ancient England the hawthorn was said to bud on the 24th and blossom the 25th of December, in memory of that birth. Why do we use evergreens at Christmas time?=20 This is another recognition of the cycle, because long, long ago =91twas thought the spirits of the woods and dells flocked to the ever greens and there were protected from frost till milder season. So, while at Christmas time, we remember the birth-time of Jesus, and give gifts as the Wise Men did of old, but now in memory of the Great Messenger=97the Christ=97we do not forget December 25th is the hidden birth= -time of all nature. Without the turning of the sun on its cycle then, would be n= o glorious bursting forth at Easter-time of all the living things in earth, o= f trees and plants and little creatures. Above all, let us not forget that we too are suns, reflecting the true Sun=97the Higher SPIRITUAL Self=97and as we turn on our course, ever acting= for The Higher Self that resides inside us each and all, we are day by day coming to the Light=97 =93of all our Light the Source.=94 Can it be that, l= ike Jesus and other Elder Brothers, we too may become Illuminated Ones=97Christs=97to younger brothers in ages far away in the future? The Tree was a sacred symbol among all the ancient peoples.=20 In India, the Ashwatta Tree was called their Tree of Life. Shedding its leaves each winter and sprouting forth new ones in the spring, it also symbolized the death and re-birth of the universe. It was said that this Tree grew with its roots above, and its branches below.=20 The Masters of Wisdom were called Trees of Righteousness because they hewed down the Tree below with the strong axe of dispassion. With the Egyptians the sacred Tree was the sycamore. Like the Ashwatta, thi= s too, is a kind of fig tree.=20 But, with peoples farther north, the evergreen was the symbol of the never-dying Fire of Life=97especially the fir tree (fir means fire) which grows in the shape of the candle-flame. Many, many are the boys and girls who have sung this Christmas Carol of our Lesson on Christmas Eve before living lighted Christmas Trees in California.=20 Would you like to know how we came to have our Christmas Trees? =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Story THE ORIGIN OF THE CHRISTMAS TREE The custom of the Christmas tree is a very recent institution. It is of a late date not only in Russia, but also in Germany, where it was first established and whence it spread everywhere, in the New as well as the Old World.=20 In France the Christmas tree was adopted later than 1870. According to Prussian chronicles, the custom of lighting the Christmas tree as we now find it in Germany was established about a hundred years ago. It penetrated into Russia about 1830, and was very soon adopted throughout the Empire by the richer classes. It is very difficult to trace the custom historically. Its origin belongs undeniably to the highest antiquity.=20 Fir trees have ever been held in honor by the ancient nations of Europe. As evergreen plants, and symbols of never-dying vegetation, they were sacred t= o the nature-deities, such as Pan and Isis. According to ancient folklore the pine was born from the body of the nymph Pitys*_beloved by the god Pan and changed into a fir-tree. [* Greek name for the pine-tree.] During the vernal festivals in honor of the great goddess of Nature, fir trees were brought into the temples decorated with fragrant violets. The ancient Northern peoples of Europe had a like reverence for the pine an= d fir trees and made great use of them at their various festivals. It is well known that the pagan priests of ancient Germany, when celebrating the first stage of the sun=92s return toward the vernal equinox, held in their hands highly ornamented pine branches. And this points to the great probability o= f the now Christmas custom of lighting Christmas trees being the echo of the pagan custom of regarding the pine as a symbol of a solar festival, the pre cursor of the birth of the Sun. Its adoption and establishment in Christian Germany imparted to it a new and Christian form. Thence fresh legends=97as is always the case, explaining in their own way, = the origin of the ancient custom. One such legend purports to give the origin o= f the once universally prevailing custom of ornamenting Christmas trees with lighted wax tapers, thus: =93Near the cave in which was born the Savior of the world grew three trees= =97a pine, an olive, and a palm. On the holy eve when the guiding star of Bethlehem appeared in the heavens, that star which announced to the long-suffering world the birth of Him who brought to mankind the glad tidings of a blissful hope, all nature rejoiced and is said to have carried to the feet of the Infant-God her best and holiest gifts. Among others the olive tree that grew at the entrance of the cave of Bethlehem brought forth its golden fruit; the palm offered to the Babe its green and shadowy vault, as a protection against heat and storm; alone the pine had nought to offer.=20 The poor tree stood in dismay and sorrow, vainly trying to think what it could present as a gift to the Child-Christ. Its branches were painfully drooping down, and the intense agony of its grief finally forced from its bark and branches a flood of hot=20 transparent tears, whose large resinous and gummy drops fell thick and fast around it. A silent star, twinkling in the blue canopy of heaven, perceived these tears; and forthwith, confabulating with her companions=97a miracle took place. Hosts of shooting stars fell down, like unto a great rain shower, on the pine, until they twinkled and shone from every needle, from top to bottom. Then trembling with joyful emotion, the pine proudly raised her drooping branches and appeared for the first time before the eyes of a wondering world, in most dazzling brightness. >From that time, the legend tells us, men adopted the habit of ornamenting the pine tree on Christmas Eve with numberless lighted candles. =97H. P. BLAVATSKY. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D =09 Story=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 FATHER CHRISTMAS Had it not been for a faint sniff, Ellen would never have seen the little disconsolate figure of Betty Marie curled up in one corner of the big chair there by the fire, for her mind was bent on the meadow creek now covered with skating-ice. =93Whee-e=97what=92s the trouble, little Sis ?=93 she cried in concern, tos= sing her tam and skates on the couch. =93Oh, Ellen, I just can=92t bear it=97that there is no Santa Claus !=93 =93Not so, Betty Marie!=94 Betty Marie straightened. =93That is =97 well, I= =92ll tell you. Don=92t you know it=92s only the red-flannel-and-white-whiskers Santa = Claus we all have to give up when we get as old as nine. Because, that=92s pretty old! Only=97this is a secret: I never had to give up some baby idea but the= re was something a thousand times better and more interesting to take its place.=94 =93But there isn=92t something nicer than Santa Claus=94=97another sniff pr= otested. =93Tell you what, Miss Betty Marie, you=92ll like this story, anyway. =91Wi= ll you listen?=94 =93Ye-es=94-=97even Betty Marie=92s acquiescence for a story lacked its usu= al zest. =93Well, =91twas the night before Christmas. Everybody had gone out except = David and his mother, and they were sitting before the fire in the library=97just like this=97reading the story of =91The Christmas Light.=92=20 =93You never read that one, Betty Marie, or you wouldn=92t be crying for yo= ur fat Santa Claus.=20 =93The story tells how once in ancient times there was a Light that spread abroad in the land making every thing bright and beautiful: it came from th= e inmost heart of every human being and caught an answering light in every thing and creature.=20 =93Strange that it could ever dim, but there grew up in the land two Giants= , called =91This=92 and =91That,=92 who set flying all about little false lig= hts that people began to follow, as some times now boys and girls chase fireflies in summer that lead them into mires and bogs.=20 =93All through the year they chased and grasped for the false lights=97and dimmer grew the true. And when the season came to renew the True Light at the birth of the Sun-God=97yes, that=92s Christmas! =97 the very urge of th= e Real in their hearts, which at times they would almost touch, and then=97lose, would make them chase all the more madly to do the behests of =91This=92 an= d =91That.=92=20 =93Of course, they really did not know these Giants by their true names. =91This=92 and =91That,=92 as they were content to be called, were really =91Greediness=92 and =91Ungratefulness.=92 =93But, in my story, by the time David got to this place,=94 Ellen=92s smil= e caught Betty Marie=92s still clouded eyes, =93he was so drowsy that all he = had time to say was=97=92those Giants cover up the Real=97make people run aroun= d after little false lights=97and when they get them=97they are out=97=92 and he wa= s fast asleep.=20 =93I mean, his mother thought he was fast asleep, but, of course, he was ju= st awake in another world=97 the Land of Dream. And there, in a beautiful gree= n forest where he had been searching for something so long=97so long=97he sat= down on a fallen log. =93Suddenly, a voice roused him=97a wonderful voice, all joyous and strong = and young and generous=97asking what it was that David had been so long searchi= ng. =93So, David told the stranger=97beautiful to look at, as his voice was to hear=97that he was hunting for the Real Christmas, because every one had lo= st it since the Giants =91This=92 and =91That=92 had been abroad in the land. = And he thought if he could once reach Father Christmas, together they could help everybody to find the Christmas Light again. The stranger was listening so kindly, David asked him if he didn=92t believe Father Christmas would help him, if he could find him. =93The stranger smiled at this question, and said that he himself was Fathe= r Christmas! =93Such a jolt that was. Why, he was a young man=97not a day over sixteen= =97and David had an awful time trying to be polite and at the same time explain that he hadn=92t expected him to look that way =97 that he thought Father Christmas was old=97very much older. =93But Father Christmas said he was as old as Time; that he never grew old, because he was the Real in everything that people think and do at Christmas time.=20 =93And he told David there is a Real Christmas Tree=97and a Light it spread= s afar so that men grow blind, if they can never glimpse it. Once men lived i= n the glow of that Light and lived to serve each other.=20 =93It was Christmas then, all the time: all saw the Real in each, but after the dark winter days, on Nature=92s secret Birthday, their love welled up a= nd overflowed.=20 =93That Real Tree and Real Light are needed shining forth in the world agai= n. There are Hidden Ones trying all the time to bring that Light, but They nee= d more help. Father Christmas paused, and then asked David almost solemnly, =91Would you like to help, little boy?=92 =93Poor David stammered in confusion, for his eye had caught a band of Christmas Thoughts coming toward them, and he became absorbed in their pretty play, around Christmas Dolls, and Teddy Bears, and Soldiers.=20 =93Soon, though, he saw creeping on them from the shadows little dark Doubt= s and Fears. =93On then rushed among them, =91I Wants,=92 =91Too Muches,=92 =91Disappoin= tments.=92 The little Christmas Thoughts scattered panting and exhausted, as Envy, Selfishness and Greed crowded quarreling around the toys.=20 =93When the Giants =91This=92 and =91That=92 appeared with thundering steps= , the Christmas Thoughts fell fainting to the ground. With malicious glee the Giants collected their ugly brood and left the fallen little ones to their fate.=20 =93David was just about to run to help them when he saw some Spirits of Service already raising them from the ground, and Father Christmas, still there, smiling at him and saying: =91David, would you like to help enough t= o give up your =91I Wants=92 and =91Too Muches=92? =93Then =97 some way =97 David knew that to give them up was the only way t= he Real Christmas Light would ever shine again in the world. The only way was for him and every one to say, =91I will=92=97=92I will.=92=20 =93And he said it=97 just as he woke up. But, as his eyes opened in the qui= et room with the vision in them still, his lips whispered, =91I saw it, Mother=97the Christmas Light!=92 =93 =93Ellen=92s voice stopped, and there was silence for a moment. Then a pair= of arms encircled her neck and Betty Marie said shyly, handing her the tam and skates: =93I like young Father Christmas!=94 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Hope this did not bore you, I always liked this story =96it explains a lot= to me. Love always, Dal & Val =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: Mary H Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 9:05 AM To: dalval14@earthlink.net Subject: Re: 2006 wish Hi Did you write that lovely Christmas poem you sent? Its is so orginal I cant help but think it is yours!!!=20 Anyway, I appreciate your sending it. I trust the rains up north of you will not bring you too many problems. Many blessings and much love. Mary=20 From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Jan 03 04:46:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 97979 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2006 12:46:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2006 12:46:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth02.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.62) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2006 12:46:59 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth02.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EtlYL-0002t5-R0; Tue, 03 Jan 2006 07:46:14 -0500 To: Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 04:46:00 -0800 Message-ID: <010201c61063$aaa1b950$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High In-Reply-To: <149.53c30918.30ea8a6f@cs.com> X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec796f6017dbf1b1f1b2350351da55715b17350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.62 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: Theos-World RE: PATANJALI YOGA-SUTRAS Re: Happy New Year to All X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=gG2sYX-d9g0VbGF9qYvgVroHEOdBDyn4KsGQrn97ddh_Tw X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/3/2006 4:45 AM Dear John: Sorry no stock here. TAIMINI -- PATANJALI=20 No, we only have a copy in the reference library. Have you looked at Judge's explanations and comments ? And compared them? Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 -----Original Message----- From: samblo@cs.com Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 5:54 AM To:=20 Subject: RE: PATANJALI YOGA-SUTRAS=20 Re: Happy New Year to All Dallas, Thanks for your response, I hope knowing your dedication to William Quan= =20 Judge you won't feel offended if I ask if ULT can supply the Taimni Patanjali=20 which is my personal preference? If so can you send me the necessary order= =20 details so I can phone and place an order? John From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Jan 03 05:43:40 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48767 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2006 13:43:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2006 13:43:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.68) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2006 13:43:39 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EtmRZ-0006Q1-U0; Tue, 03 Jan 2006 08:43:18 -0500 To: Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 05:43:03 -0800 Message-ID: <000201c6106b$a2d57100$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79df8a6d57fcff26de3bd4d22f145b41c5350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.68 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: Happy New Year to All X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=lavt-uOu3LyByvzTX6R4-12E4w_cgYovsnpEa_KU2DMLlg X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/3/2006 5:35 AM Dear Estella, David, Reed and Friends Thanks for your 2006 wishes, questions and program. On the question of Reincarnation These ideas may help: REINCARNATION AND MANAS=20 THE REINCARNATOR The mystery about reincarnation -- as to whether it is a fact or not, revolves around our understanding of the nature and the powers of the Mind (Manas). Ordinarily the Mind is thought to be immaterial, or to be merely the name for brain-action, in evolving thought. Thinking is still a process wholly unknown other than by inference. Yet it is also held that if there is no brain, there can be no mind. A good deal of attention has been paid to cataloging some mental functions and attributes, but the terms in our language are absent to describe metaphysical and spiritual facts about man= . The reaction against religion in the West, prevented science from taking anything but a materialistic view of man and nature.=20 THE HIGHER MAN Theosophy states the fifth principle is Manas, translated Mind. Other names may have been given to it, but it is the Knower, The Perceiver, The Thinker= . The sixth principle is Buddhi, or spiritual discernment; the seventh is Atma, or Spirit -- the ray from the Absolute Being. English as a language, may suffice to describe in part what Manas is, but not Buddhi, or Atma, an= d will leave many things relating to Manas undescribed.=20 THE LOWER MAN The course of evolution developed the four lower principles (Desire, Life-energy, Astral and Physical bodies) and produced at last, the form of man with a brain of better and deeper capacity than that of any other animal.=20 This man in form was not man in mind, and needed the fifth principle, the thinking, perceiving one, to differentiate him from the animal kingdom and to confer the power of becoming Self-Conscious. The Monad (Atma-Buddhi) was imprisoned in these forms, for without the presence of the Monad evolution could not go forward.=20 THE LIGHTING-UP OF THE MIND Going back for a moment to the time when mankind was devoid of mind, the question arises, "who gave the mind, where did it come from, and what is it?" It is the link between the Spirit of God above and the personal below. It was given to the mindless Monads by others who had gone through this process ages upon ages before in other worlds, and it therefore came from older evolutionary periods which had been carried out and completed long before the solar system began. This is the strange theory which must be stated if we are to tell the truth about Theosophy; and this is only handin= g on what others have said before.=20 The manner in which this Light Of Mind was given to the Mindless Men can be understood from the illustration of one candle lighting many. Given one lighted candle and numerous unlighted ones, it follows that from one light the others may also be set aflame. So in the case of Manas. It is the candl= e of flame. The mindless men having four elementary principles of Body, Astral Body, Life and Desire, are the unlighted candles that cannot light themselves.=20 MIND IS A GIFT FROM OUR ELDER BROTHERS -- THE WISE The "Sons of Wisdom," who are the Elder Brothers of the family of men on an= y globe, have the Mind-light. It was derived by them from others -- their "Elders," who reach back, and yet farther back, in endless procession with no beginning or end. They set fire to the combined lower principles and the Monad, thus lighting up Manas in the new men. And from there began the preparing of another great race for final initiation.=20 This lighting up of the fire of Manas is symbolized in all great religions and Freemasonry. In the East a priest appears holding a candle lighted at the altar, and thousands of others come to him in a procession, to light their candles from this one.=20 MANAS THE IMMORTAL THINKER REINCARNATES Manas, or the Thinker, is the reincarnating being. It is the immortal who carries the results and values of all the different lives lived on earth or elsewhere.=20 MIND BECOMES DUAL IN THE PHYSICAL MAN Its nature becomes dual as soon as it is attached to a body. For the human Brain is a superior organism, and Manas uses it to reason from premises to conclusions. This also differentiates man from animal, for the animal acts from automatic, the so-called instinctual impulses. Whereas the man, can us= e Reason. This is the lower aspect of the Thinker or Manas, and not, as some have supposed, the highest and best gift belonging to man.=20 Its other, and in Theosophy higher, aspect, is the intuitional, which knows= , and does not depend on reason. It is Manas allied to Buddhi -- spiritual discrimination and Wisdom. The lower, and purely intellectual, is nearest to the principle of Desire, and is thus distinguished from its other side which has affinity for the spiritual principles (Buddhi and Atma, above. If the Thinker, becomes wholly intellectual, the entire nature begins to trend downward; for intellect alone is cold, heartless, selfish, because it is no= t lighted up by the two other principles of universality and immortality: Buddhi and Atma.=20 MANAS-MIND STORES ALL THOUGHTS In Manas the thoughts of all lives are stored. That is to say: in any one life, the sum total of thoughts underlying all the acts of the life-time will be of one character in general, but may be placed in one or more classes. That is, the business man of today is a single type; his entire life thoughts represent but one single thread of thought. The artist is another. The man who has engaged in business, but also thought much upon fame and power which he never attained, is still another.=20 The great mass of self-sacrificing, courageous, and strong, poor people who have but little time to think, constitute another distinct class. In all these, the total quantity of life thoughts makes up the stream or thread of a "life's meditation" -- "that upon which the heart was set" -- and those are stored in immortal Manas. All those will be brought out again at any time in whatever life the brain and bodily environments are similar to thos= e used in engendering that class of thoughts.=20 PERCEPTION BY THE MIND It is Manas which sees the objects presented to it by the bodily organs and the actual organs (which are seated in the Astral body) within. When the open eye receives a picture on the retina, the whole scene is turned into vibrations in the optic nerves which disappear into the brain, and there Manas is enabled to perceive them as idea. And so with every other organ or sense. If the connection between Manas and the brain be broken, intelligenc= e will not be manifested unless Manas has by training found out how to projec= t the astral body out and away from the physical, and thereby keep up communication with fellow men.=20 OUR ORGANS OF PERCEPTION ARE TOOLS FOR THE MIND That the organs and senses do not cognize objects, hypnotism, mesmerism, an= d spiritualism have now proved. For, as we see in mesmeric and hypnotic experiments, the object seen or felt, and from which, all the effects of solid objects may be sensed, is often only an idea existing in the operator's brain. In hypnotism there are many experiments, all of which go to show that so called matter is not per se solid or dense; that sight does not always depend on the eye and rays of light proceeding from an object; that the intangible for one normal brain and organs, may be perfectly tangible for another; and that physical effects in the body may be produced solely from an idea.=20 The well-known experiments of producing a blister by a simple piece of paper, or preventing a real blistering plaster from making a blister, by force of the idea conveyed to a subject, either that there was to be or not to be a blister, conclusively prove the power of effecting an impulse on matter by the use of that which is called Mind (Manas). But all these phenomena are the exhibition of the powers of Lower Manas acting in the astral Body and the fourth principle -- Desire, using the physical body as the field for the exhibition of the forces. THOUGHT TRANSFERENCE=20 In the same way Manas, using the astral body, has only to impress an idea upon the other person to make the latter see the idea and translate it into a visible body from which the usual effects of density and weight seem to follow.=20 LOWER MANAS AND ITS POWERS It is this Lower Manas which retains all the impressions of a life-time and sometimes strangely exhibits them in trances or dreams, delirium, induced states, here and there in normal conditions, and very often at the time of physical death. But it is so occupied with the brain, with memory and with sensation, that it usually presents but few recollections out of the mass o= f events that years have brought before it.=20 It interferes with the action of Higher Manas because just at the present point of evolution, Desire and all corresponding powers, faculties, and senses are the most highly developed, thus obscuring, as it were, the white light of the spiritual side of Manas. It (Lower Manas) is tinted by each object presented to it, whether it be a thought-object or a material one. That is to say, Lower Manas operating through the brain is at once altered into the shape and other characteristics of any object, mental or otherwise= . This causes it to have four peculiarities.=20 . First, to naturally fly off and away from a selected point, object, or subject;=20 .=20 . Second, to fly to some pleasant idea;=20 .=20 . Third, to fly to an unpleasant idea;=20 .=20 . Fourth, to remain passive and considering nothing. .=20 The first is due to memory and the natural motion of Manas; the second and third are due to memory alone; the fourth signifies sleep when not abnormal= . And when abnormal is trending toward insanity.=20 HIGHER MANAS AND ITS WORK These mental characteristics all belonging to Lower Manas. It is these which the Higher Manas, aided by Buddhi and Atma, has to fight and conquer. Higher Manas, if able to act, becomes what we sometimes call Genius. If completely master, then one may become a god. But memory continually presents pictures to Lower Manas, and the result is that the Higher is obscured. Sometimes, however, along the pathway of life we do see here and there men who are geniuses or great seers and prophets. In these the Higher powers of Manas are active, and the person is illuminated. Such were the great Sages of the past, men like Buddha, Jesus, Confucius, Zoroaster, and others. Poets, too, such as Tennyson, Longfellow, and others, are men in whom Higher Manas now and then sheds a bright ray on the man below, to be soon obscured, however, by the effect of dogmatic religious education which has given memory certain pictures that always prevent Manas from gaining full activity.=20 In this higher Trinity, we have the God above each one; this is Atma, (the 7th principle) and may be called the Higher Self. Next, (the sixth) is the spiritual part of the soul called Buddhi; when thoroughly united with Manas (the fifth) this may be called the Divine Ego, or the Spiritual Soul.=20 THE REINCARNATING SELF IS AN IMMORTAL The inner Ego (Manas), who reincarnates, taking on body after body, storing up the impressions of life after life, gaining experience and adding it to the Divine Ego, suffering and enjoying through an immense period of years, is the fifth principle -- Manas -- not united to Buddhi.=20 This is the permanent individuality which gives to every man the feeling of being himself and not some other; that which through all the changes of the days and nights from youth to the end of life makes us feel one identity through all the period; it bridges the gap made by sleep; in like manner it bridges the gap made by the sleep of death. It is this, and not our brain, that lifts us above the animal.=20 The depth and variety of the brain convolutions in man are caused by the presence of Manas, and are not the cause of mind. And when we either wholly= , or now and then, become consciously united with Buddhi, the Spiritual Soul, we "behold God," as it were. This is what the ancients all desired to see, but what the moderns do not believe in, the latter preferring rather to throw away their own right to be great in nature, and to worship an imaginary god, made up solely of their own fancies, and not very different from weak human nature.=20 DUTY AND WORK OF THE REINCARNATING MIND-MANAS This permanent individuality in our present race has therefore been through every sort of experience, for Theosophy insists on its permanence and in th= e necessity for its continuing to take part in evolution. It has a duty to perform, consisting in raising up to a higher state all the matter concerne= d in the chain of globes to which the earth belongs.=20 We have all lived and taken part in civilization after civilization, race after race, on earth, and will so continue throughout all the Rounds and Races until the seventh is complete. At the same time it should be remembered that the matter of this globe, connected with it, has also been through every kind of form, with possibly some exceptions in very low plane= s of mineral formation.=20 But in general all the matter visible, or held in space still unprecipitated, has been molded at one time or another into forms of all varieties, many of these being such as we now have no idea of. The processe= s of evolution, therefore, in some departments, now go forward with greater rapidity than in former ages because both Manas and matter have acquired facility of action.=20 Especially is this so in regard to man, who is the farthest ahead of all things or beings in this evolution. He is now incarnated and projected into life more quickly than in earlier periods when it consumed many years to obtain a "coat of skin." This coming into life over and over again cannot b= e avoided by the ordinary man because Lower Manas is still bound by Desire, which is the preponderating principle at the present period. Being so very influenced by Desire, Manas is continually deluded while in the body, and being thus deluded is unable to prevent the action upon it of the forces se= t up in the life time.=20 These forces are generated by Manas, that is, by the thinking of a whole life time. Each thought makes a physical as well as mental link with the Desire in which it is rooted. All life is filled with such thoughts, and when the period of rest after death is ended, Manas is bound by innumerable electrical magnetic threads to earth by reason of the thoughts of the last life, and therefore by desire, for it was desire that caused so many thoughts and ignorance of the true nature of things. This is called by the Hindu philosophies "maya." (illusion). An understanding of this doctrine of man being really a thinker and made of thought, will make clear all the rest in relation to incarnation and reincarnation.=20 The body of the inner man is made of thought, and this being so it must follow that if the thoughts have more affinity for earth-life than for life elsewhere a return to life here is inevitable.=20 At the present day Manas is not fully active in the race, as Desire still i= s uppermost. In the next cycle of the human period Manas will be fully active and developed in the entire race. Hence the people of the earth have not ye= t come to the point of making a conscious choice as to the path they will take; but when in the cycle referred to, Manas is active, all will then be compelled to consciously make the choice to right or left, the one leading to complete and conscious union with Atma, the other to the annihilation of those beings who prefer that path of an isolated selfishness. The COMPLEXITY OF NATURE IS FOCUSED IN MAN How man has come to be the complex being that he is and why, are questions that neither Science nor Religion makes conclusive answer to.=20 This immortal thinker having such vast powers and possibilities, all his because of his intimate connection with every secret part of Nature from which he has been built up, stands at the top of an immense and silent evolution.=20 He asks why Nature exists, what the drama of life has for its aim, how that aim may be attained. But Science and Religion both fail to give a reasonabl= e reply. Science does not pretend to be able to give the solution, saying tha= t the examination of things as they are (as Nature has arranged them), is enough of a task. Religion offers an explanation both illogical and unmeaning and acceptable but to the bigot, as it requires us to consider th= e whole of Nature as a mystery and to seek for the meaning and purpose of life, with all its sorrow, in the whimsical and fanciful pleasure of a God who cannot be found out. The educated and enquiring mind knows that dogmati= c religion can only give an answer invented by man while it pretends to be from God.=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D These are extracted from Mr. W. Q. Judge's The OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY=20 Best wishes for 2006 to all at BLAVATSKY.NET Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: Estela Carson [mailto:help@seekerbooks.com]=20 Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 2:12 PM To: study@blavatsky.net Subject: [bn-study] Happy New Year to All Dear Friends, BN Study would like to wish all of you a Happy New Year. We hope that 2006 will be a more peaceful year in the world than recent ones have been.=20 The philosophy of Theosophy with its noble vision of what a human being can be and with the universal principles it presents give us the tools to infus= e life with nonviolent, intelligent and creative solutions to the problems we all face in this materialized and seemingly separative state we find ourselves in. And it is the delusion of separateness that HPB described as "the dire heresy of our times."=20 snip Does Theosophy advise to cultivate past life memories? Can these memories be beneficial to us in this life? Might these memories (depending on what they are) hinder us? Is a mere intellectual knowledge of reincarnation helpful to us on the path= ? What in our own lives might point to reincarnation as a fact? Why don't we remember past lives more easily? Or do we but not realize it? Do we reincarnate together as groups? (family, close friends, social, etc.) These are but a few questions on the subject. Hope to hear from some of you Again Best wishes in the New Year from BN Study David and Estela, Moderators From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Tue Jan 03 08:21:13 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45430 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2006 16:21:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2006 16:21:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mx03.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.13) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2006 16:21:12 -0000 Received: from 56347a74.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.122.116] helo=khidr6094418a5) by mx03.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1EtooE-00072y-0C for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 03 Jan 2006 17:14:50 +0100 Message-ID: <000a01c61081$42bf0b80$747a3456@khidr6094418a5> To: References: Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 17:17:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.13 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "M. Sufilight" Subject: Re: Theos-World Sufilight about the quote: "... The Secret Doctrine is the Truth ... (II, 292) " X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=flKmrMhrU3rdjd7VbSimmPa4LaXseRq5kqwVwsUvC-SV X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Hallo Daniel and all, My views are: Yes, that is allright. :-) But, will you not agree, that the quote from Isis Unveiled could be misunderstood? To me Parabrahman (on the level beyond thoughts) is Truth or TRUTH, - and certainly not a book named The Secret Doctrine. Further more I think someone here at Theos-talk have quote Blavatsky, that Blavatsky later admitted, that the script Isis Unveiled had a number of faults in it. To me truth is not a fault. Well, but that is just silly little me saying this. :-) Feel free to make your own conclusion. The Bhagavad Gita and the Upanishads are also core teaching to some theosophists. We do not necessarily need The Secret Doctrine to explore that fact. Although one could say, that it is helpful to some of us depending on our level of development and the Path we follow of the seven paths mentioned by Blavatsky in the same book The Secret Doctrine. Contrast can be quite helpful from time to time. Just some views. from M. Sufilight with a impressionistic smile... ----- Original Message ----- From: "danielhcaldwell" To: Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 9:03 PM Subject: Theos-World Sufilight about the quote: "... The Secret Doctrine is the Truth ... (II, 292) " > Sufilight, > > You wrote: > >> I can't find this quote in The Secret Doctrine at the named page. >> "... The Secret Doctrine is the Truth ... (II, 292) " >> http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/caldwelldthcd.htm > > All the quotes on the above webpage are from ISIS UNVEILED. > > I wrote on that webpage: > > "I've appended below a number of excerpts from H.P.Blavatsky's first > great work, Isis Unveiled, showing how Madame Blavatsky viewed this > issue...." > > Daniel > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Tue Jan 03 09:42:44 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69975 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2006 17:42:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2006 17:42:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.40) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2006 17:42:42 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jan 2006 17:42:38 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by mailer8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jan 2006 17:42:38 -0000 Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 17:42:37 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.40 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: Does Theosophy Have Core Teachings? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=JOriBhFxvuxj3nQO1Y7ZkLsUe6FI78aIMb2YQhZvvghxI2IQe4AlIQZM X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Does Theosophy Have Core Teachings? See: http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/caldwelldthcd.htm Daniel Blavatsky Study Center http://blavatskyarchives.com From ringding@online.de Tue Jan 03 11:17:00 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85988 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2006 19:17:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2006 19:17:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.187) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2006 19:16:59 -0000 Received: from [84.191.146.145] (helo=captain70e702a) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu1) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKwpI-1EtreT1wNv-000776; Tue, 03 Jan 2006 20:16:58 +0100 Message-ID: <005401c6109a$6ee22440$152ca8c0@captain70e702a> To: References: Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 20:18:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:d066391b47e67c594ae06bf3d758d7eb X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.187 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World Does Theosophy Have Core Teachings? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=224426186; y=Nq-_Bty61o9b6YYj64S0D0ShCFnIGdUia-tDzr1G-QRbBT-T3XPH9is-Kw X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer Daniel, your and Boris de Zirkoff's explanation is quite correct from my point of view. Only to add, that in the exoteric TS recognition of the dogmas of the esoteric philosophy is not required. A theosophist is free to believe what he/she/it prefers to believe. But this freedom has led some superficial students to the wrong impression as if Theosophy has no distint teachings. Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: "danielhcaldwell" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 6:42 PM Subject: Theos-World Does Theosophy Have Core Teachings? Does Theosophy Have Core Teachings? See: http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/caldwelldthcd.htm Daniel Blavatsky Study Center http://blavatskyarchives.com Yahoo! Groups Links theos-talk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Tue Jan 03 12:02:56 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8188 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2006 20:02:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2006 20:02:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mx01.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.11) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2006 20:02:55 -0000 Received: from 56347a74.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.122.116] helo=khidr6094418a5) by mx01.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1EtsM9-0001FN-2I for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 03 Jan 2006 21:02:07 +0100 Message-ID: <000401c610a1$22f2bbb0$747a3456@khidr6094418a5> To: References: <005401c6109a$6ee22440$152ca8c0@captain70e702a> Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 21:06:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.11 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "M. Sufilight" Subject: Re: Theos-World Does Theosophy Have Core Teachings? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=qVwg9dqWqsZmngXCGzhPrJnrPZOd6xLaebBdDOS_0bj4 X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Hallo all, Sure..!? I quote Blavatsky in the Key to Theosophy - Sextion 2: "ENQUIRER. Which system do you prefer or follow, in that case, besides Buddhistic ethics? THEOSOPHIST. None, and all. We hold to no religion, as to no philosophy in particular: we cull the good we find in each. But here, again, it must be stated that, like all other ancient systems, Theosophy is divided into Exoteric and Esoteric Sections. ENQUIRER. What is the difference? THEOSOPHIST. The members of the Theosophical Society at large are free to profess whatever religion or philosophy they like, or none if they so prefer, provided they are in sympathy with, and ready to carry out one or more of the three objects of the Association. The Society is a philanthropic and scientific body for the propagation of the idea of brotherhood on practical instead of theoretical lines. The Fellows may be Christians or Mussulmen, Jews or Parsees, Buddhists or Brahmins, Spiritualists or Materialists, it does not matter; but every member must be either a philanthropist, or a scholar, a searcher into Aryan and other old literature, or a psychic student. In short, he has to help, if he can, in the carrying out of at least one of the objects of the programme. Otherwise he has no reason for becoming a "Fellow." Such are the majority of the exoteric Society, composed of "attached" and "unattached" members. [An "attached member" means one who has joined some particular branch of the T. S. An "unattached," one who belongs to the Society at large, has his diploma, from the Headquarters (Adyar, Madras), but is connected with no branch or lodge.] These may, or may not, become Theosophists de facto. Members they are, by virtue of their having joined the Society; but the latter cannot make a Theosophist of one who has no sense for the divine fitness of things, or of him who understands Theosophy in his own -- if the expression may be used -- sectarian and egotistic way. "Handsome is, as handsome does" could be paraphrased in this case and be made to run: "Theosophist is, who Theosophy does." http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/key/key-2.htm BUT, this doesn't imply, that the same book written by Blavatsky has more importance than other books. Since we all "cull the good we find in each" system, books included! So to say that The Secret Doctrine (or even Isis Unveiled) as a book is more special than other books is in fact at least just lie to a certain degree. To the Exoteric theosophist it might however be true. from M. Sufilight with a smile... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Reitemeyer" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 8:18 PM Subject: Re: Theos-World Does Theosophy Have Core Teachings? > Daniel, your and Boris de Zirkoff's > explanation is quite correct from my point of > view. > Only to add, that in the exoteric TS > recognition of the dogmas of the esoteric > philosophy is not required. > A theosophist is free to believe what > he/she/it prefers to believe. > But this freedom has led some superficial > students to the wrong impression as if > Theosophy has no distint teachings. > Frank > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "danielhcaldwell" > > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 6:42 PM > Subject: Theos-World Does Theosophy Have Core > Teachings? > > > Does Theosophy Have Core Teachings? > > See: > > http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/caldwelldthcd.htm > > Daniel > Blavatsky Study Center > http://blavatskyarchives.com > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > theos-talk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Jan 03 14:26:29 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 98385 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2006 22:26:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2006 22:26:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.68) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2006 22:26:28 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EtubU-0008Pt-Qj; Tue, 03 Jan 2006 17:26:05 -0500 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 14:25:49 -0800 Message-ID: <000901c610b4$ab4aedd0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <000201c6106b$a2d57100$0a0110ac@DALLAS> X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec790a1345304ab96f00d1fad54ff39b6df5350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.68 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: Happy New Year to All X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=fgeYTqIbG7bHYdIf3eWpOWMwx-HebfNtIv3_AMSZafOgNg X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/3/2006 2:16 PM More on REINCARNATION REINCARNATION IN JUDAISM AND THE BIBLE =20 REINCARNATION IN JUDAISM AND THE BIBLE THE lost chord of Christianity is the doctrine of Reincarnation. It was beyond doubt taught in the early days of the cult, for it was well known to the Jews who produced the men who founded Christianity.=20 The greatest of all the Fathers of the Church--Origen--no doubt believed in the doctrine. He taught pre-existence and the wandering of the soul. This could hardly have been believed without also giving currency to reincarnation, as the soul could scarcely wander in any place save the earth. She was in exile from Paradise, and for sins committed had to revolv= e and wander. Wander where? would be the next question. Certainly away from Paradise, and the short span of human life would not meet the requirements of the case.=20 But a series of reincarnations will meet all the problems of life as well a= s the necessities of the doctrines of exile, of wanderings for purification, of being known to God and being judged by him before birth, and of other dogmas given out among the Jews and of course well known to Jesus and whoever of the seventy-odd disciples were not in the deepest ignorance. Som= e of the disciples were presumably ignorant men, such as the fishermen, who had depended on their elders for instruction, but not all were of that sort= , as the wonderful works of the period were sufficiently exciting to come to the ears of even Herod.=20 Paul cannot be accused of ignorance, but was with Peter and James one of several who not only knew the new ideas but were well versed in the old ones. And those old ones are to be found in the Old Testament and in the Commentaries, in the Zohar, the Talmud, and the other works and sayings of the Jews, all of which built up a body of dogmas accepted by the people and the Rabbis.=20 Hence sayings of Jesus, of Paul, and others have to be viewed with the well-known and never-disputed doctrines of the day held down to the present time, borne well in mind so as to make passages clear and show what was tacitly accepted. Jesus himself said that he intended to uphold and buttres= s the law, and that law was not only the matter found in the book the Christian theologians saw fit to accept, but also in the other authorities of which all except the grossly unlearned were cognizant.=20 So when we find Herod listening to assertions that John or Jesus was this, that, or the other prophet or great man of olden time, we know that he was with the people speculating on the doctrine of reincarnation or "coming back," and as to who a present famous person may have been in a former life= . Given as it is in the Gospels as a mere incident, it is very plain that the matter was court gossip in which long philosophical arguments were not indulged in, but the doctrine was accepted and then personal facts gone int= o for amusement as well as for warning to the king.=20 To an Eastern potentate such a warning would be of moment, as he, unlike a Western man, would think that a returning great personage would of necessit= y have not only knowledge but also power, and that if the people had their minds attracted to a new aspirant for the leadership they would be inflamed beyond control with the idea that an old prophet or former king had come back to dwell in another body with them.=20 The Christians have no right, then, to excise the doctrine of reincarnation from their system if it was known to Jesus, if it was brought to his attention and was not condemned at all but tacitly accepted, and further, finally, if in any single case it was declared by Jesus as true in respect to any person. And that all this was the case can, I think, be clearly shown. First for the Jews, from whom Jesus was born, and to whom he said unequivocally he came as a missionary or reformer. The Zohar is a work of great weight and authority among the Jews. In II, 199 b, it says that "all souls are subject to revolutions." This is metempsychosis or a'leen b'gilgoola; but it declares that "men do not know the way they have been judged in all time."=20 That is, in their "revolutions" they lose a complete memory of the acts tha= t have led to judgment. This is precisely the Theosophical doctrine. The Kether Malkuth says, "If she, the soul, be pure, then she shall obtain favo= r .. . but if she hath been defiled, then she shall wander for a time in pain and despair. . . until the days of her purification." If the soul be pure and if she comes at once from God at birth, how could she be defiled? And where is she to wander if not on this or some other world until the days of her purification? The Rabbis always explained it as meaning she wandered down from Paradise through many revolutions or births until purity was regained. Under the name of "Din Gilgol Neshomes" the doctrine of reincarnation is constantly spoken of in the Talmud. The term means "the judgment of the revolutions of the souls." And Rabbi Manassa, son of Israel, one of the mos= t revered, says in his book Nishmath Hayem: "The belief or the doctrine of th= e transmigration of souls is a firm and infallible dogma accepted by the whol= e assemblage of our church with one accord, so that there is none to be found who would dare to deny it. . . . Indeed, there is a great number of sages i= n Israel who hold firm to this doctrine so that they made it a dogma, a fundamental point of our religion. We are therefore in duty bound to obey and to accept this dogma with acclamation . . . as the truth of it has been incontestably demonstrated by the Zohar, and all books of the Kabalists." These demonstrations hold, as do the traditions of the old Jews, that the soul of Adam reincarnated in David, and that on account of the sin of David against Uriah it will have to come again in the expected Messiah. And out o= f the three letters ADM, being the name of the first man, the Talmudists always made the names Adam, David and Messiah. Hence this in the Old Testament: "And they will serve Jhvh their God and David their king whom I shall reawaken for them." That is, David reincarnates again for the people. Taking the judgment of God on Adam "for dust thou art and unto dust thou shalt return," the Hebrew interpreters said that since Adam had sinned it was necessary for him to reincarnate on earth in order to make good the evi= l committed in his first existence; so he comes as David, and later is to com= e as Messiah. The same doctrine was always applied by the Jews to Moses, Seth= , and Abel, the latter spelt Habel. Habel was killed by Cain, and then to supply the loss the Lord gave Seth to Adam; he died, and later on Moses is his reincarnation as the guide of the people, and Seth was said by Adam to be the reincarnation of Habel. Cain died and reincarnated as Yethrokorah, who died, the soul waiting till the time when Habel came back as Moses and then incarnated as the Egyptian who was killed by Moses; so in this case Habel comes back as Moses, meets Cain in the person of the Egyptian, and kills the latter. Similarly it was held that Bileam, Laban, and Nabal were reincarnations of the one soul or individuality. And of Job it was said tha= t he was the same person once known as Thara, the father of Abraham; by which they explained the verse of Job (ix, 21), "Though I were perfect, yet would I not know my own soul," to mean that he would not recognize himself as Thara. All this is to be had in mind in reading Jeremiah, "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest out of the womb I sanctified thee"; or in Romans ix, v, 11, 13, after telling that Jacob and Esau being not yet born, "Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated"; or the ideas of the people that "Elias was yet to first come"; or that some of the prophets were there in Jesus or John; or when Jesus asked the disciples "Whom do men think that I am?" There cannot be the slightest doubt, then, that among the Jews for ages and down to the time of Jesus the ideas above outlined prevailed universally. Let us now come to the New Testament. St. Matthew relates in the eleventh chapter the talk of Jesus on the subjec= t of John, who is declared by him to be the greatest of all, ending in the 14th verse, thus: "And if ye will receive it, this is Elias which was for to come." Here he took the doctrine for granted, and the "if" referred not to any possible doubts on that, but simply as to whether they would accept his designation of John as Elias. In the 17th chapter he once more takes up the subject thus: "10. And his disciples asked him saying, Why, then, say the scribes that Elias must first come?" And Jesus answered and said unto them; Elias truly shall first come and restore all things. But I say unto you that Elias is come already, and they knew him not but have done to him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of Man suffer of them. Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist. The statement is repeated in Mark, chapter ix, v. 13, omitting the name of John. It is nowhere denied. It is not among any of the cases in which the different Gospels contradict each other; it is in no way doubtful. It is no= t only a reference to the doctrine of reincarnation, but is also a clear enunciation of it. It goes much further than the case of the man who was born blind, when Jesus heard the doctrine referred to, but did not deny it nor condemn it in any way, merely saying that the cause in that case was no= t for sin formerly committed, but for some extraordinary purpose, such as the case of the supposed dead man when he said that the man was not dead but wa= s to be used to show his power over disease. In the latter one he perceived there was one so far gone to death that no ordinary person could cure him, and in the blind man's case the incident was like it. If he thought the doctrine pernicious, as it must be if untrue, he would have condemned it at the first coming up, but not only did he fail to do so, he distinctly himself brought it up in the case of John, and again when asking what were the popular notions as to himself under the prevailing doctrines as above shown. Matthew xvi, v. 13, will do as an example, as the different writers do not disagree, thus: "When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi he asked his disciples, Whom do men say that I am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist, some Elias, and others Jeremias or one of the prophets." This was a deliberate bringing-up of the old doctrine, to which the disciples replied, as all Jews would, without any dispute of the matter of reincarnation; and the reply of Jesus was not a confutation of the notion, but a distinguishing of himself from the common lot of sages and prophets b= y showing himself to be an incarnation of God and not a reincarnation of any saint or sage. He did not bring it up to dispute and condemn as he would an= d did do in other matters; but to the very contrary he evidently referred to it so as to use it for showing himself as an incarnate God. And following his example the disciples never disputed on that; they were all aware of it= ; St. Paul must have held it when speaking of Esau and Jacob; St. John could have meant nothing but that in Revelations, chap. iii, v. 12. "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God and he shall go no more out." Evidently he had gone out before or the words "no more" could have no place or meaning. It was the old idea of the exile of the soul and the need for i= t to be purified by long wandering before it could be admitted as a "pillar i= n the temple of God."=20 And until the ignorant ambitious monks after the death of Origen had gotten hold of Christianity, the doctrine must have ennobled the new movement.=20 Later the Council of Constantinople condemned all such notions directly in the face of the very words of Jesus, so that at last it ceased to vibrate a= s one of the chords, until finally the prophecy of Jesus that he came to brin= g a sword and division and not peace was fulfilled by the warring nations of Christian lands who profess him in words but by their acts constantly deny him whom they call "the meek and lowly." W.Q.J. PATH, February, 1894 =20 =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Best wishes, Dallas =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Jan 03 14:40:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31558 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2006 22:40:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2006 22:40:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.68) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2006 22:40:13 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Etup7-0006ff-FK; Tue, 03 Jan 2006 17:40:10 -0500 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 14:39:56 -0800 Message-ID: <000a01c610b6$a2fade40$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79845575f972ed19572533fdb844b42602350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.68 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: reincarnation X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=CVDRVOkWSuOJPFA9DwlCj6IzLn5-EH0Bl-ttOSC2qXJOKw X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 1/3/2006 2:35 PM =20 More on Reincarnation =20 =20 REINCARNATIONS IN TIBET =20 SO little is known by Europeans of what is going on in Tibet, and even in the more accessible Bhootan, that an Anglo-Indian paper--one of those which pretend to know, and certainly discuss every blessed subject, whether they really know anything of it or not--actually came out with the following bit of valuable information: It may not be generally known that the Deb Raja of Bhootan, who died in Jun= e last, but whose decease has been kept dark till the present moment, probabl= y to prevent disturbances, is our old and successful opponent of 1864-65 . . = . . The Bhootan Government consists of a spiritual chief, called the Dhurm Raja= , an incarnation of Buddha (?!!) who never dies--and a civil ruler called the Deb Raja in whom is supposed to centre all authority. A more ignorant assertion could hardly have been made. may be argued that "Christian" writers believe even less in Buddha's reincarnations than the Buddhists of Ceylon, and, therefore, trouble themselves very little, whethe= r or not they are accurate in their statements. But, in such a case, why touc= h a subject at all? Large sums are annually spent by Governments to secure ol= d Asiatic manuscripts and learn the truth about old religions and peoples, an= d it is not showing respect for either science or truth to mislead people interested in them by a flippant and contemptuous treatment of facts. On the authority of direct information received at our Headquarters, we wil= l try to give a more correct view of the situation than has hitherto been had from books. Our informants are firstly--some very learned lamas; secondly--= a European gentleman and traveller, who prefers not to give his name; and thirdly--a highly educated young Chinaman, brought up in America, who has since preferred to the luxuries of worldly life and the pleasures of Wester= n civilization, the comparative privations of a religious and contemplative life in Tibet. Both of the two last-named gentlemen are Fellows of our Society, and the latter--our "Celestial" Brother--losing, moreover, no opportunity of corresponding with us. A message from him has been just received via Darjeeling. In the present article, it is not much that we will have to say. Beyond contradicting the queer notion of the Bhootanese Dharma Raja being "an incarnation of Buddha," we will only point out a few absurdities, in which some prejudiced writers have indulged. It certainly was never known--least of all in Tibet--that the spiritual chief of the Bhootanese was "an incarnation of Buddha, who never dies." The ''Dug-pa1 or Red Caps" belong to the old Nyang-na-pa sect, who resisted the religious reform introduced by Tsong-kha-pa between the latter part of the fourteenth and th= e beginning of the fifteenth centuries. It was only after a lama coming to them from Tibet in the tenth century had converted them from the old Buddhist faith so strongly mixed up with the Bhon practices of the aborigines--into the Shammar sect, that, in opposition to the reformed "Gyelukpas," the Bhootanese set up a regular system of reincarnations. It i= s not Buddha though, or "Sang-gyas"--as he is called by the Tibetans. who incarnates himself in the Dharma Raja, but quite another personage; one of whom we will speak about later on. Now what do the Orientalists know of Tibet, its civil administration, and especially its religion and its rites? That, which they have learned from the contradictory, and in every case imperfect statements of a few Roman Catholic monks, and of two or three daring lay travellers, who, ignorant of the language, could scarcely be expected to give us even a bird's-eye view of the country. The missionaries, who introduced themselves in 1719, stealthily into Lhassa,2 were suffered to remain there but a short time and were finally forcibly expelled from Tibet. The letters of the Jesuits--Desideri, and Johann Grueber, and especially that of Fra della Penna, teem with the greatest absurdities.3 Certainly as superstitious, and apparently far more so than the ignorant Tibetans themselves, on whom they father every iniquity, one has but to read these letters to recognize in them that spirit of odium theologicum felt by every Christian, and especially Catholic missionary for the "heathen" and their creeds; a spirit which blinds one entirely to the sense of justice. And whe= n could have been found any better opportunity to ventilate their monkish ill-humour and vindictiveness than in the matter of Tibet, the very land of mystery, mysticism and seclusion? Beside these few prejudiced "historians," but five more men of Europe ever stepped into Tibet. Of these, three--Bogle= , Hamilton and Turner--penetrated no farther than its borderlands; Manning--the only European who is known to have set his foot into Lha-ssa4 --died without revealing it= s secrets, for reasons suspected, though never admitted, by his only survivin= g nephew--a clergyman; and Cs=F6mo de Kor=F6s, who never went beyond Zanskar,= and the lamasery of Phag-dal.5 = =20 The regular system of the Lama=EFc incarnations of "Sang-gyas" (or Buddha) began with Tsong-kha-pa. This reformer is not the incarnation of one of the five celestial Dhyans, or heavenly Buddhas, as is generally supposed, said to have been created by Sakya Muni after he had risen to Nirvana, but that of "Amita," one of the Chinese names for Buddha. The records preserved in the G=F6n-pa (lamasery) of "Tda-shi Hlum-po" (spelt by the English Teshu Lumbo) show that Sang-gyas incarnated himself in Tsongkha-pa in consequence of the great degradation his doctrines had fallen into. Until then, there had been no other incarnations than those of the five celestial Buddhas and of their Boddhisatwas, each of the former having created (read, overshadowe= d with his spiritual wisdom) five of the last-named--there were, and now are in all but thirty incarnations--five Dhyans and twenty-five Boddhisatwas. I= t was because, among many other reforms, Tsong- kha-pa forbade necromancy (which is practiced to this day with the most disgusting rites, by the Bh=F6ns--the aborigines of Tibet--with whom the Red Caps, or Shammars, had always fraternized), that the latter resisted his authority. This act was followed by a split between the two sects. Separating entirely from the Gyelukpas, the Dugpas (Red Caps)--from the first in a great minority--settled in various parts of Tibet, chiefly its borderlands, and principally in Nepaul and Bhootan. But, while they retained a sort of independence at the monastery of Sakia-Djong, the Tibetan residence of thei= r spiritual (?) chief Gong-sso Rimbo-chay, the Bhootanese have been from thei= r beginning the tributaries and vassals of the Dala=EF-Lamas. In his letter t= o Warren Hastings in 1774, the Tda-shi Lama, who calls the Bhootans "a rude and ignorant race," whose "Deb Rajah is dependent upon the Dala=EF-Lama," omits to say that they are also the tributaries of his own State and have been now for over three centuries and a half. The Tda-shi Lamas were always more powerful and more highly considered than the Dala=EF-Lamas. The latter are the creation of the Tda-shi Lama, Nabang-Lob-Sang, the sixth incarnatio= n of Tsong-kha-pa--himself an incarnation of Amitabha, or Buddha. This hierarchy was regularly installed at Lha-ssa, but it originated only in the latter half of the seventeenth century.6 =20 In Mr. C. R. Markham's highly interesting work above noticed, the author ha= s gathered every scrap of information that was ever brought to Europe about that terra incognita. It contains one passage, which, to our mind, sums up in a few words the erroneous views taken by the Orientalists of Lamaism in general, and of its system of perpetual reincarnation especially. "It was, indeed," it reads, "at about the period of Hiuen-Thsang's journey, that Buddhism first began to find its way into Tibet, both from the direction of China and that of India; but it came in a very different form from that in which it reached Ceylon several centuries earlier. Traditions, metaphysical speculations, and new dogmas, had overlaid the original Scriptures with an enormous collection of more recent revelation. Thus Tibet received a vast body of truth, and could only assimilate a portion for the establishment of popular belief. Since the original Scriptures had been conveyed into Ceylon by the son of Asoka, it had been revealed to the devout Buddhists of India that their Lord had created the five Dhyani or celestial Buddhas, and that each of these had created five Boddhisatwas, or beings in the course of attaining Buddha-hood. The Tibetans took firm hold of this phase of the Buddhistic creed, and their distinctive belief is that the Boddhisatwas continue to remain in existence for the good of mankind by passing through = a succession of human beings from the cradle to the grave. This characteristi= c of their faith was gradually developed, and it was long before it received its present form;7 but the succession of incarnate Boddhisatwas was the idea towards which the Tibetan mind tended from the first." At the same time, as Max M=FCller says: "The m= ost important element of the Buddhist reform has always been its social and moral code, not its metaphysical theories. That moral code, taken by itself= , is one of the most perfect which the world has ever known; and it was this blessing that the introduction of Buddhism brought into Tibet." (p. XIV, Introduction.)=20 The "blessing" has remained and spread all over the country, there being no kinder, purer-minded, more simple or sin-fearing nation than the Tibetans, missionary slanders notwithstanding.8 But yet, for all that, the popular Lamaism, when compared with the real esoteric, or Arahat Buddhism o= f Tibet, offers a contrast as great as the snow trodden along a road in the valley, to the pure and undefiled mass which glitters on the top of a high mountain peak.9 A few of such mistaken notions about the latter, we will now endeavour to correct as far as it is compatible to do so. Before it can be clearly shown how the Bhootanese were forcibly brought int= o subjection, and their Dharma Raja made to accept the "incarnations" only after these had been examined into, and recognized at Lha-ssa, we have to throw a retrospective glance at the state of the Tibetan religion during th= e seven centuries which preceded the reform. As said before, a Lama had come to Bhootan from Kam--that province which had always been the stronghold and the hot-bed of the "Shammar" or Bh=F6n rites10 --between the ninth and tenth centuries, and had converted them into what he called Buddhism. But i= n those days, the pure religion of Sakya Muni had already commenced degenerating into that Lamaism, or rather fetichism, against which four centuries later, Tsong-kha-pa arose with all his might. Though three centuries had only passed since Tibet had been converted (with the exceptio= n of a handful of Shammars and Bh=F6ns), yet esoteric Buddhism had crept far earlier into the country. It had begun superseding the ancient popular rite= s ever since the time when the Brahmins of India, getting again the upper han= d over Asoka's Buddhism, were silently preparing to oppose it, an opposition which culminated in their finally and entirely driving the new faith out of the country. The brotherhood or community of the ascetics known as the Byangtsiub--the "Accomplished" and the "Perfect"--existed before Buddhism spread in Tibet, and was known, and so mentioned in the pre-Buddhistic book= s of China as the fraternity of the "great teachers of the snowy mountains." Buddhism was introduced into Bod-yul in the beginning of the seventh centur= y by a pious Chinese Princess, who had married a Tibetan King,11 who was converted by her from the Bh=F6n religion into Buddhism, and had become since then a pillar = of the faith in Tibet, as Asoka had been nine centuries earlier in India. It was he who sent his minister--according to European Orientalists: his own brother, the first Lama in the country--according to Tibetan historical records--to India. This brother minister returned "with the great body of truth contained in the Buddhist canonical Scriptures; framed the Tibetan alphabet from the Devanagri of India, and commenced the translation of the canon from Sanskrit--which had previously been translated from Pali, the ol= d language of Magadha--into the language of the country." (See Markham's Tibet.)12 =20=20 Under the old rule and before the reformation, the high Lamas, were often permitted to marry, so as to incarnate themselves in their own direct descendants--a custom which Tsong-kha-pa abolished, strictly enjoining celibacy on the Lamas. The Lama Enlightener of Bhootan had a son whom he ha= d brought with him. In this son's first male child born after his death the Lama had promised the people to reincarnate himself. About a year after the event--so goes the religious legend--the son was blessed by his Bhootanese wife with triplets, all the three boys! Under this embarrassing circumstance, which would have floored any other casuists, the Asiatic metaphysical acuteness was fully exhibited. The spirit of the deceased Lama--the people were told--incarnated himself in all the three boys. One had his Om, the other his Han, the third--his Hoong. Or, (Sanskrit): Buddha--divine mind, Dharma--matter or animal soul, and Sangha--the union o= f the former two in our phenomenal world. It is this pure Buddhist tenet whic= h was degraded by the cunning Bhootanese clergy to serve the better their ends. Thus their first Lama became a triple incarnation, three Lamas, one o= f whom--they say--got his "body," the other, his "heart" and the third, his "word" or wisdom.=20 =20 This hierarchy lasted with power undivided until the fifteenth century, whe= n a Lama named Duk-pa Shab-tung, who had been defeated by the Gyelukpas of Gay-don Toob-pa,13 invade= d Bhootan at the head of his army of monks. Conquering the whole country, he proclaimed himself their first Dharma Raja, or Lama Rimbochay--thus startin= g a third "Gem" in opposition to the two Gyelukpa "Gems." But this "Gem" neve= r rose to the eminence of a Majesty, least of all was he ever considered a "Gem of Learning" or wisdom. He was defeated very soon after his proclamation by Tibetan soldiers, aided by Chinese troops of the Yellow Sect, and forced to come to terms. One of the clauses was the permission to reign spiritually over the Red Caps in Bhootan, provided he consented to reincarnate himself in Lha-ssa after his death, and make the law hold good forever. No Dharma Raja since then was ever proclaimed or recognized, unles= s he was born either at Lha-ssa or on the Tda-shi Hlum-po territory.=20 =20 Another clause was to the effect that the Dharma Rajas should never permit public exhibitions of their rites of sorcery and necromancy, and the third that a sum of money should be paid yearly for the maintenance of a lamasery= , with a school attached where the orphans of Red-caps, and the converted Shammars should be instructed in the "Good Doctrine" of the Gyelukpas. That the latter must have had some secret power over the Bhootanese, who are among the most inimical and irreconcilable of their Red-capped enemies, is proved by the fact that Lama Duk-pa Shab-tung was reborn at Lha-ssa, and that to this day, the reincarnated Dharma Rajahs are sent and installed at Bhootan by the Lha-ssa and Tzi-gadze authorities. The latter have no concer= n in the administration save their spiritual authority, and leave the tempora= l government entirely in the hands of the Deb-Rajah and the four P=EBn-lobs, called in Indian official papers Penlows, who in their turn are under the immediate authority of the Lha-ssa officials. >From the above it will be easily understood that no "Dharma Raja" was ever considered as an incarnation of Buddha. The expression that the latter "never dies" applies but to the two great incarnations of equal rank--the Dalai and the Tda-shi Lamas. Both are incarnations of Buddha, though the former is generally designated as that of Avalokiteswara, the highest celestial Dhyan. For him who understands the puzzling mystery by having obtained a key to it, the Gordian knot of these successive reincarnations i= s easy to untie. He knows that Avalokiteswara and Buddha are one as Amita-pho14 (pronounced Fo) or Amita-Buddha is identical with the former. What the mystic doctrine of the initiated "Phag-pa" or "saintly men" (adepts) teaches upon this subject, is not to be revealed to the world at large. The little that can b= e given out will be found in a paper on the "Holy Law" which we hope to publish in our next. Theosophist, March, 1882 ---------------------------------- FOOTNOTES ---------------------------------------- =20 1 The term "Dug-pa" in Tibet is deprecatory. They themselves pronounce it "D=F6g-pa" from the root to "bind" (religious binders to the old faith): wh= ile the paramount sect--the Gyeluk-pa (yellow caps)--and the people, use the word in the sense of "Dug-pa" mischief-makers, sorcerers. The Bhootanese ar= e generally called Dug-pa throughout Tibet and even in some parts of Northern India.--ED. 2 Out of twelve Capuchin friars who, under the leadership of Father della Penna, established a mission at Lhassa, nine died shortly after, and only three returned home to tell the tale. (See Tibet, by Mr. Clements R. Markham.) 3 See Appendix to Narratives of the Mission of George Bogle to Tibet. By Clements R. Markham, C. B., F. R. S., Tr=FCbner & Co., I London.--ED. 4 We speak of the present century. It is very dubious whether the two missionaries Huc and Gabet ever entered Lha-ssa. The Lamas deny it.--ED. 5 We are well aware that the name is generally written Pugdal, but it is erroneous to do so. "Pugdal" means nothing, and the Tibetans do not give meaningless names to their sacred buildings. We do not know how Cs=F6mo de Kor=F6s spells it, but, as in the case of Pho-ta-la of Lha-ssa loosely spel= t "Potala"--the lamasery of Ph=E4g-dal derives its name from Ph=E4g-pa (Phag--eminent in holiness, Buddha-like, spiritual; and pha-man, father) th= e title of "Awalokiteswara," the Boddhisatwa who incarnates himself in the Dala=EF Lama of Lha-ssa. The valley of the Ganges where Buddha preached and lived, is also called "Ph=E4g-yul," the holy, spiritual land; the word phag coming from the one root--Ph=E4 or Ph=F6 being the corruption of Fo--(or Bu= ddha) as the Tibetan alphabet contains no letter F.--ED. 6 Says Mr. Markham in Tibet Ap. XVII Preface): "Gedun-tubpa, another great reformer, was contemporary with Tsong-kha-pa, having been born in 1339, and dying in 1474" (having thus lived 135 years). He built the monastery at Teshu Lumbo (Tda-shi Hlum-po) in 1445, and it was in the person of this perfect Lama, as he was called, that the system of perpetual incarnation commenced. He was himself the incarnation of Boddhisatwa Padma Pani and on his death he relinquished the attainment of Buddhahood that he might be bor= n again and again for the benefit of mankind. . . . When he died, his successor was found as an infant by the possession of certain divine marks.= =20 7 Its "present" is its earliest form, as we will try to show further on. A correct analysis of any religion viewed but from its popular aspect, become= s impossible--least of all Lamaism, or esoteric Buddhism as disfigured by the untutored imaginative fervour of the populace. There is a vaster difference between the "Lamaism" of the learned classes of the clergy and the ignorant masses of their parishioners, than there is between the Christianity of a Bishop Berkeley and that of a modern Irish peasant. Hitherto Orientalists have made themselves superficially acquainted but with the beliefs and rite= s of popular Buddhism in Tibet, chiefly through the distorting glasses of missionaries which throw out of focus every religion but their own. The sam= e course has been followed in respect to Sinhalese Buddhism, the missionaries having, as Col. Olcott observes in the too brief Preface to his Buddhist Catechism, for many years been taunting the Sinhalese with the "puerility and absurdity of their religion" when, in point of fact, what they speak of is not orthodox Buddhism at all. Buddhist folklore and fairy stories are th= e accretions of twenty-six centuries.--ED. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 Best wishes, =20 =20 Dallas =20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Tue Jan 03 19:26:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96553 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2006 03:26:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2006 03:26:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.225) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2006 03:26:22 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n5.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2006 03:26:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by mailer2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2006 03:26:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by mailer5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2006 03:26:21 -0000 Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 03:26:20 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 216.155.203.225 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: Question in HPB's THE KEY TO THEOSOPHY: "Have you no beliefs in common?" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=_3AUhomyqwXtqLnnwDqMd1jris23NitTcVCuV7Zs7pFT6dSS95wr1k_y X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell ENQUIRER. But surely those few who have felt the need of such truths=20 must have made up their minds to believe in something definite? You=20 tell me that, the [Theosophical] Society having no doctrines of its=20 own, every member may believe as he chooses and accept what he=20 pleases. This looks as if the Theosophical Society was bent upon=20 reviving the confusion of languages and beliefs of the Tower of=20 Babel of old. Have you no beliefs in common?=20 THEOSOPHIST. What is meant by the Society having no tenets or=20 doctrines of its own is, that no special doctrines or beliefs are=20 obligatory on its members; but, of course, this applies only to the=20 body as a whole. The Society, as you were told, is divided into an=20 outer and an inner body. Those who belong to the latter have, of=20 course, a philosophy, or -- if you so prefer it -- a religious=20 system of their own.=20 ENQUIRER. May we be told what it is?=20 THEOSOPHIST. We make no secret of it. It was outlined a few years=20 ago in the Theosophist and "Esoteric Buddhism," and may be found=20 still more elaborated in the "Secret Doctrine." It is based on the=20 oldest philosophy of the world, called the Wisdom-Religion or the=20 Archaic Doctrine. If you like, you may ask questions and have them=20 explained.=20 Quoted from: THE KEY TO THEOSOPHY by H.P. Blavatsky http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/key/key-4.htm Daniel http://blavatskyarchives.com http://keytotheosophy.net From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Tue Jan 03 20:19:31 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30738 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2006 04:19:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2006 04:19:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.40) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2006 04:19:31 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2006 04:17:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by mailer1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2006 04:17:02 -0000 Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 04:17:00 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.40 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: So what does this mean: "...we cull the good we find in each....."???? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=0Nwmg7DkeOP_Vrrh1Z5PALMiQgHEIdX6TURl7gqPu0fk7WQaFJMDG-O2 X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Sufilight, You wrote: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D I quote Blavatsky in the Key to Theosophy - Sextion 2: "ENQUIRER. Which system do you prefer or follow, in that case,=20 besides Buddhistic ethics? THEOSOPHIST. None, and all. We hold to no religion, as to no=20 philosophy in particular: we cull the good we find in each.=20 But here, again, it must be stated that, like all other ancient=20 systems, Theosophy is divided into Exoteric and Esoteric Sections. ................................................ http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/key/key-2.htm =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D You then comment: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D BUT, this doesn't imply, that the same book written by=20 Blavatsky has more importance than other books. Since we all=20 "cull the good we find in each" system, books included! So to say that The Secret Doctrine (or even Isis Unveiled)=20 as a book is more special than other books is in fact at=20 least just lie to a certain degree. To the Exoteric theosophist it=20 might however be true. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Well, Sufilight, you may believe that but here also is what HPB writes in the same KEY TO THEOSOPHY about her 1888 book THE SECRET DOCTRINE: "...she [HPB herself} says expressly in the PREFACE [to the S.D.] that she gives out the DOCTRINES that she has LEARNT from the=20 Masters....." p. 300 Caps added to "doctrines" and "learnt". And HPB again points to specific teachings, doctrines, philosophy=20 when she writes also in the KEY: "...Those who belong to the .... [the inner body, the esoteric=20 section] have, of course, a philosophy, or -- if you so prefer it --=20 a religious system of their own....It was outlined a few years ago=20 in the Theosophist and 'Esoteric Buddhism,' and may be found still=20 more elaborated in the 'Secret Doctrine.' It is based on the oldest=20 philosophy of the world, called the Wisdom-Religion or the Archaic=20 Doctrine." p. 60 So in light of these statements,what actually is HPB referring to when she writes: "....we cull the good we find in each...." ??? Daniel http://blavatskyarchives.com =20 From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Tue Jan 03 20:48:05 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 34246 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2006 04:48:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2006 04:48:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.53) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2006 04:48:04 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2006 04:46:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by mailer7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2006 04:46:23 -0000 Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 04:46:21 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.53 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: Did HPB "cull" Theosophy from the religions of the world? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=m6JFEXZ8mkUmm0Dt0BUQWdvamG5UJs_MhMBs1DppB452IxwSGjgdxIny X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Did HPB "cull" Theosophy from the religions of the world? Let us be more specific..... For example, did HPB herself "cull" the teaching about the=20 terrestrial chain of globes from various religious works or did she=20 receive the teaching from her Masters....? I quote below several passages from THE SECRET DOCTRINE. Notice=20 that HPB mentions THE ORIGINAL TEACHINGS in one of the passages.=20=20 What is she referring to by this phrase? Also notice that she states that she "applied to the Teachers [the=20 Mahatmas] by letter for explanation and an authoritative version." "...an authoritative version...." !!?? What does that mean? =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D "Esoteric Buddhism" [by A.P. Sinnett] . . . is an excellent book=20 [on Theosophy], and has done still more excellent work. But this=20 does not alter the fact that it contains some mistaken=20 notions. . . .=20 Mistakes have now to be checked by the original teachings and=20 corrected. . . .=20 Among such [mistakes]. . . [was] the erroneous statement that two of=20 the superior Globes of the terrestrial chain were two of our well- known planets [Mars and Mercury].... When the present work [THE SECRET DOCTRINE] was commenced, the=20 writer [H.P. Blavatsky herself], feeling sure that the speculation=20 about Mars and Mercury was a mistake, applied to the Teachers [the=20 Mahatmas] by letter for explanation and an authoritative version.=20 Both came in due time, and verbatim extracts from these are now=20 given. . . . Again, here are more extracts from another letter written by=20 the same authority.... ...Those alone, whom we call adepts, who know how to direct their=20 mental vision and to transfer their consciousness -- physical and=20 psychic both -- to other planes of being, are able to speak with=20 authority on such subjects. And they tell us plainly: -- . . .=20 ". . . . . . Be prudent, we say, prudent and wise, and above all=20 take care what those who learn from you believe in; lest by=20 deceiving themselves they deceive others . . . . . for such is the=20 fate of every truth with which men are, as yet, unfamiliar. . . .=20 Let rather the planetary chains and other super- and sub-cosmic=20 mysteries remain a dreamland for those who can neither see, nor yet=20 believe that others can. . . ." =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Quoted from: http://blavatskyarchives.com/moderntheosophy.htm#2 Daniel http://blavatskyarchives.com From arhat_buddhism@yahoo.com Tue Jan 03 20:51:58 2006 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 83773 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2006 04:51:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2006 04:51:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.38) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2006 04:51:58 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2006 04:51:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by mailer3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2006 04:51:46 -0000 X-Sender: arhat_buddhism@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 76174 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2006 13:52:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jan 2006 13:52:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web54710.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.200) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2006 13:52:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 55496 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Jan 2006 13:51:57 -0000 Message-ID: <20060102135157.55494.qmail@web54710.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [201.0.6.104] by web54710.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 05:51:57 PST Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 05:51:57 -0800 (PST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.49.200 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Bhikshuni Ariya Subject: Re: Theos-World Theosophy Magazine: Reprints of Volumes I-IV. Edited by Robert Crosbie X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218337227; y=zh4r5hWy9EE5V1V-jkpR4DBG7MJoDOsjD_YvokwZEjubHuzndG02sfc X-Yahoo-Profile: arhat_buddhism Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: eldon_tucker via web; 04 Jan 2006 04:51:44 -0000 H.P.Blavatsky never published this magazine. She passed away in May 8th, 1891. The cover of this Magazine is fraud. Theosophy Magazine, November 1912 to October 1913 (Paperback) by H. P. Blavatsky, W. Q. Judge danielhcaldwell wrote: Theosophy Magazine: Reprints of Volumes I-IV Edited by Robert Crosbie In 1909, Robert Crosbie (1849-1919) and a group of Theosophical students founded the United Lodge of Theosophists in Los Angeles, California. In November 1912, Mr. Crosbie founded the magazine "Theosophy," which he continued to edit until his death. Read more at: http://blavatskyarchives.com/theosophymag.htm Daniel Blavatsky Study Center http://blavatskyarchives.com Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From arhat_buddhism@yahoo.com Tue Jan 03 20:52:13 2006 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 47782 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2006 04:52:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2006 04:52:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.44) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2006 04:52:13 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n10.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2006 04:51:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by mailer6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2006 04:51:46 -0000 X-Sender: arhat_buddhism@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24314 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2006 19:04:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2006 19:04:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web54714.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.204) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2006 19:04:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 71013 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Jan 2006 19:03:26 -0000 Message-ID: <20060103190326.71011.qmail@web54714.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [201.0.6.104] by web54714.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 03 Jan 2006 11:03:26 PST Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 11:03:26 -0800 (PST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <43B9720E.2070902@sprynet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.49.204 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Bhikshuni Ariya Subject: Re: Theos-World Kindly: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218337227; y=TIKhyxor4vG9wfI5O6QfQUSN7lilaH6jQuZftW_qZIyZLNOvgxTsEKk X-Yahoo-Profile: arhat_buddhism Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: eldon_tucker via web; 04 Jan 2006 04:51:45 -0000 "And now it is time to put a stop to my abominable penmanship and so relieve you from the task. Yes -- your "cosmogony"! Well, good friend, your cosmology is -- between the leaves of my Khuddaka Patha -- (my family Bible) ..." M. {The Mahatmas Letters to A.P.Sinnett, Letter 43]. http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-43.htm In the Khuddaka-Patha, you learn the following: What is the One? The One is: all sentient beings are supported by food. What are the Two? The Two are Mind & Body What are the Three? The Three are: the three feelings. What are the Four? The Four are: Gautama Buddha Tathagata four Aryas Truths. What are the Five? The Five are: the five grasping elements. What are the Six? The Six are: the six senses [sight, hearing, touch, taste, smelling, plus the sixth: guess which. What are the Seven? The Seven are: the seven factors of wisdom. What are the Eight? The Eight are: Gautama Buddha Tathagata Ariyas eight-folded path. What are the Nine? The Nine are: the nine spheres of sentient beings [worlds, lokas]. What are the Ten? The ten factors with which one becomes an ARHAT. __________ Bart Lidofsky wrote: arhat_buddhism wrote: > The six are: senses. What are the six senses? Bart Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From arhat_buddhism@yahoo.com Tue Jan 03 20:52:46 2006 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18294 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2006 04:52:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2006 04:52:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.42) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2006 04:52:45 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2006 04:51:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by mailer6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2006 04:51:46 -0000 X-Sender: arhat_buddhism@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14841 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2006 18:46:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2006 18:46:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.52) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2006 18:46:24 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jan 2006 18:46:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.70] by mailer6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jan 2006 18:46:14 -0000 Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 18:46:12 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.52 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 201.0.6.104 From: "arhat_buddhism" Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Gupta-Vidy=E2_is_not_for_theosophists.?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218337227; y=5_-nGubrTV8IUyWSHbiMbyKwdjnLSiWM4niXr9uMPHZ4b6DqwAay4rs X-Yahoo-Profile: arhat_buddhism X-eGroups-Approved-By: eldon_tucker via web; 04 Jan 2006 04:51:44 -0000 Theosophists failed miserably. What is the first object of The Theosophical Society? Universal Brotherhood. Not occultism. From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Tue Jan 03 21:09:05 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 68374 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2006 05:09:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2006 05:09:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.201.62) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2006 05:09:04 -0000 Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n9.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2006 05:09:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by mailer2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2006 05:09:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by mailer1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2006 05:09:03 -0000 Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 05:09:03 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 216.155.201.62 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?The_=93Bhagavad-Gita=94_and_=93Esoteric_Buddhism=94:__W.Q._Judge_&_H.P._Blavatsky?= X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=qdxWaBaCoQ_-qLNbD_lwonHVeoW-h29-ozC6R-DduvkEICElFhf-2wTq X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Sufilight, You wrote: "The Bhagavad Gita and the Upanishads are also core teaching=20 to some theosophists. We do not necessarily need The Secret=20 Doctrine to explore that fact. Although one could say, that it is=20 helpful to some of us depending on our level of development and the=20 Path we follow of the seven paths mentioned by Blavatsky in the same=20 book The Secret Doctrine. Contrast can be quite helpful from time to=20 time." Your comments reminded me of a letter or article by William Q. Judge=20 and H.P. Blavatsky's reply. THE BHAGAVAD-GITA AND ESOTERIC BUDDHISM [by A.P. Sinnett] [The Theosophist, Vol. V, No. 5 (53), February, 1884, p. 122] =20 The only fault I have to find with Mr. Sinnett's book is that he too=20 often says that: "this knowledge is now being given out for the=20 first time." He does not do this because he wants glory for himself,=20 but because he makes a mistake. Nearly all the leading portions of the doctrine are to be found=20 broadly stated in the Bhagavad-Gita.=20 The obscuration periods are most clearly spoken of (chap. VIII, p.=20 42):* "Those men who know the day of Brahma, which ends after a=20 thousand ages, and the night which comes on at the end of those=20 thousand ages, know day and night indeed . . . This collective mass=20 itself of existing things, thus existing again and again, is=20 dissolved at the approach of that night. At the approach of that day=20 it emanates spontaneously." And in chap. IX, p. 44: "At the conclusion of a Kalpa all existing=20 things re-enter nature which is cognate with me. But I cause them to=20 come forth again at the beginning of a Kalpa." Dhyan-Chohan state is given in the same chapter. "This they call the=20 highest walk. Those who obtain this never return. This is my supreme=20 abode." Re-incarnation is stated at chap. IV, p. 24: "I and thou have passed=20 through many transmigrations." And the return of Buddha in the=20 same. "For whenever there is a relaxation of duty, I then reproduce=20 myself for the protection of the good, and the destruction of evil=20 doers." Devachan is to be found in chap. IX, p. 45: "These, obtaining their=20 reward . . . Having enjoyed this great world of heaven, they re- enter the world of mortals, when the reward is exhausted . . . they=20 indulge in their desires, and obtain a happiness which comes and=20 goes. =20=20 That knowledge is more important than mere religious devotion, see=20 chap. IV, p. 26, "If thou wert even the most sinful of all sinners,=20 thou wouldst cross over all sin in the bark of spiritual knowledge." For those who will see, it is all in this wonderful book. WM. Q. JUDGE, F.T.S.=20 EDITOR'S [H.P. Blavatsky's] NOTE.=97We do not believe our American=20 brother is justified in his remarks. The knowledge given out in=20 Esoteric Buddhism is, most decidedly, "given out for the first=20 time," inasmuch as the allegories that lie scattered in the Hindu=20 sacred literature are now for the first time clearly explained to=20 the world of the profane.=20 Since the birth of the Theosophical Society and the publication of=20 Isis, it is being repeated daily that all the Esoteric Wisdom of the=20 ages lies concealed in the Vedas, the Upanishads and Bhagavad-Gita.=20 Yet, unto the day of the first appearance of Esoteric Buddhism, and=20 for long centuries back, these doctrines remained a sealed letter to=20 all but a few initiated Brahmans who had always kept the spirit of=20 it to themselves. The allegorical text was taken literally by the=20 educated and the uneducated, the first laughing secretly at the=20 fables and the latter falling into superstitious worship, and owing=20 to the variety of the interpretations=97splitting into numerous sects. =20 Nor would W. Q. Judge have ever had the opportunity of comparing=20 notes so easily and, perhaps, even understanding many a mystery, as=20 he now evidently shows he does by citing relevant passages from the=20 Bhagavad-Gita, had it not been for Mr. Sinnett's work and plain=20 explanations.=20 Most undeniably, not "nearly all"=97but positively all the doctrines=20 given in Esoteric Buddhism and far more yet untouched, are to be=20 found in the Gita, and not only there but in a thousand more known=20 or unknown MSS. of Hindu sacred writings.=20 But what of that? Of what good to W. Q. Judge or any other is the=20 diamond that lies concealed deep underground? Of course every one=20 knows that there is not a gem, now sparkling in a jeweller's shop=20 but pre-existed and lay concealed since its formation for ages=20 within the bowels of the earth. Yet, surely, he who got it first=20 from its finder and cut and polished it, may be permitted to say=20 that this particular diamond is "given out for the first time" to=20 the world, since its rays and lustre are now shining for the first=20 in broad day-light. ------------------------------- So maybe the same remarks would also apply to HPB'S SECRET=20 DOCTRINE??? Daniel http://blavatskyarchives.com =20=20 =20 =20 From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Tue Jan 03 21:27:03 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59015 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2006 05:27:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2006 05:27:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.35) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2006 05:27:00 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2006 05:26:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by mailer4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2006 05:26:22 -0000 Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 05:26:19 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20060102135157.55494.qmail@web54710.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.35 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: Theosophy Magazine: Reprints X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=FRLWAMeT_nM65pxY8PWVr6xhXq0QaozdoDGSprcGdfzD9aH7lelQTXgI X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Bhikshuni Ariya, You wrote: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D H.P.Blavatsky never published this magazine. She passed away in May 8th, 1891. The cover of this Magazine is fraud. Theosophy Magazine, November 1912 to October 1913 (Paperback) by H. P. Blavatsky, W. Q. Judge =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Isn't the word "fraud" a little too drastic? Certainly the publisher of the reprint made a mistake. HPB did NOT edit or publish it. The editor was Robert Crosbie. I assume the publisher saw all of the articles by HPB and WQJ reprinted in these volumes and assumed.... I actually sent the publisher the original of Volume I of this magazine and said he could reprint it using my orginal copy. I did not tell him who was the editor. Anyway I'm just glad the publisher reprinted these volumes of THEOSOPHY magazine for alot of=20 good material is in these volumes. http://blavatskyarchives.com/theosophymag.htm Daniel http://blavatskyarchives.com From dalval14@earthlink.net Wed Jan 04 05:13:38 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57429 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2006 13:13:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2006 13:13:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.68) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2006 13:13:36 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Eu8Rs-0002XZ-Qg; Wed, 04 Jan 2006 08:13:05 -0500 To: Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 05:12:51 -0800 Message-ID: <003a01c61130$95896630$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec790a721e46f3ffba53c05754bc3e4a17f4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.68 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: Lord's Prayer X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=Z307PgC4eKFiRTmUNufao2WT7OzSzlJ6RlMvxO2SLErlNg X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1/4/2006 5:10 AM Dear Megan: Many thanks -- makes a lot of difference when properly translated Best wishes, Dallas ===================== -----Original Message----- From: Megan Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 11:05 AM To: Subject: Lord's Prayer As my understanding goes, The Lord's Prayer preceeded Jesus, it was his gift of recitation of it to us that we use and hold before us to this day. The translation from it's original Aramaic to English is as follows. O Cosmic Birther of all Radiance and Vibration! Soften the ground of our Being and carve out a space within us where your presence can abide. Fill us with your creativity so that we may be empowered to bear the fuit of your mission. Let each of our actions bear fruit in accordance with our desire. Endow us with the wisdom to produce and share what each beings needs to grow and flourish. Untie the tangled threads of destiny that bind us, as we release others from the entanglement of past mistakes. Do not let us be seduced by that which would divert us from our true purpose, but illuminate the opportunites of the present moment. For you are the ground and the fruitful vision, the birth, power and fulfillment, as all are gathered and made whole once again. Amen Beautiful and offers such an different tone and context to the one many of us use today. May we all be blessed and be blessings to all in this New Year. Megan ------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Wed Jan 04 05:56:44 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57322 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2006 13:56:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2006 13:56:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.68) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2006 13:56:39 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Eu90m-00056V-2R; Wed, 04 Jan 2006 08:49:08 -0500 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 05:48:54 -0800 Message-ID: <004601c61135$9eb133f0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7931ed96b1e71866880664dca516f7d5aa350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.68 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: THEORIES ABOUT REINCARNATION AND SPIRITS H P B X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=5gw4AqoNcbRPdT2YQDYKdNb5TKCaPuEXQwtDZcFR8BUK3Q X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/4/2006 5:25 AM Dear Friends: This is one of the most interesting articles HPB wrote: THEORIES ABOUT REINCARNATION AND SPIRITS H. P. Blavatsky OVER and over again the abstruse and mooted question of Rebirth or Reincarnation has crept out during the first ten years of the Theosophical Society's existence. It has been alleged on prima facie evidence, that a notable discrepancy was found between statements made in Isis Unveiled, Vol= . I, 351-2, and later teachings from the same pen and under the inspiration o= f the same master. 1=20 In Isis, it was held, reincarnation is denied. An occasional return, only o= f "depraved spirits" is allowed. "Exclusive of that rare and doubtful possibility, Isis allows only three cases--abortion, very early death, and idiocy--in which reincarnation on this earth occurs." ("C.C.M." in Light, 1882.)=20=20=20 The charge was answered then and there as every one who will turn to the Theosophist of August, 1882, can see for himself. Nevertheless, the answer either failed to satisfy some readers or passed unnoticed. Leaving aside th= e strangeness of the assertion that reincarnation--i.e., the serial and periodical rebirth of every individual monad from pralaya to pralaya [2] is denied in the face of the fact that the doctrine is part and parcel and one of the fundamental features of Hinduism and Buddhism, the charge amounted virtually to this: the writer of the present, a professed admirer and student of Hindu philosophy, and as professed a follower of Buddhism years before Isis was written, by rejecting reincarnation must necessarily reject KARMA likewise! For the latter is the very cornerstone of Esoteric philosophy and Eastern religions; it is the grand and one pillar on which hangs the whole philosophy of rebirths, and once the latter is denied, the whole doctrine of Karma falls into meaningless verbiage.=20 Nevertheless, the opponents without stopping to think of the evident "discrepancy" between charge and fact, accused a Buddhist by profession of faith of denying reincarnation hence also by implication--Karma. Adverse to wrangling with one who was a friend, and undesirous at the time to enter upon a defence of details and internal evidence--a loss of time indeed--the writer answered merely with a few sentences. But it now becomes necessary t= o well define the doctrine. Other critics have taken the same line, and by misunderstanding the passages to that effect in Isis they have reached the same rather extraordinary conclusions.=20 To put an end to such useless controversies, it is proposed to explain the doctrine more clearly.=20 Although, in view of the later more minute renderings of the esoteric doctrines, it is quite immaterial what may have been written in Isis--an encyclopedia of occult subjects in which each of these is hardly sketched--let it be known at once, that the writer maintains the correctnes= s of every word given out upon the subject in my earlier volumes. What was said in the Theosophist of August, 1882, may now be repeated here. The passage quoted from it may be, and is, most likely "incomplete, chaotic, vague, perhaps clumsy, as are many more passages in that work, the first literary production of a foreigner who even now can hardly boast of her knowledge of the English language." Nevertheless it is quite correct so far as that collateral feature of reincarnation is therein concerned.=20 I will now give extracts from Isis and proceed to explain every passage criticized, wherein it was said that "a few fragments of this mysterious doctrine of reincarnation as distinct from metempsychosis"--would be then presented. Sentences now explained are in italics.=20 Reincarnation i.e., the appearance of the same individual, or rather of his astral monad, twice on the same planet is not a rule in nature, it is an exception, like the teratological phenomenon of a two-headed infant. It is preceded by a violation of the laws of harmony of nature, and happens only when the latter seeking to restore its disturbed equilibrium, violently throws back into earth-life the astral monad which had been tossed out of the circle of necessity by crime or accident. Thus in cases of abortion, of infants dying before a certain age, and of congenital and incurable idiocy, nature's original design to produce a perfect human being, has been interrupted. Therefore, while the gross matter of each of these several entities is suffered to disperse itself at death, through the vast realm of being, the immortal spirit and astral monad of the individual--the latter having been set apart to animate a frame and the former to shed its divine light on the corporeal organization--must try a second time to carry out th= e purpose of the creative intelligence. (Isis I, 351.)=20 Here the "astral monad" or body of the deceased personality--say of John or Thomas--is meant. It is that which, in the teachings of the Esoteric philosophy of Hinduism, is known under its name of bhoot; in the Greek philosophy is called the simulacrum or umbra, and in all other philosophies worthy of the name is said, as taught in the former, to disappear after a certain period more or less prolonged in Kama-loka--the Limbus of the Roman Catholics, or Hades of the Greeks. [3]=20 It is "a violation of the laws of harmony of nature," though it be so decreed by those of Karma--every time that the astral monad, or the simulacrum of the personality--of John or Thomas--instead of running down t= o the end of its natural period of time in a body--finds itself (a) violently thrown out of it by whether early death or accident; or (b) is compelled in consequence of its unfinished task to re-appear (i.e., the same astral body wedded to the same immortal monad) on earth again, in order to complete the unfinished task. Thus "it must try a second time to carry out the purpose o= f creative intelligence" or law.=20 If reason has been so far developed as to become active and discriminative there is no [4] (immediate) reincarnation on the earth, for the three parts of the triune man have been united together, and he is capable of running the race. But when the new being has not passed beyond the condition of Monad, or when, as in the idiot, the trinity has not been completed on eart= h and therefore cannot be so after death, the immortal spark which illuminate= s it has to re-enter on the earthly plane as it was frustrated in its first attempt. Otherwise, the mortal or astral, and the immortal or divine souls, could not progress in unison and pass onward to the sphere above [5] (Devachan). Spirit follows a line parallel with that of matter; and the spiritual evolution goes hand in hand with the physical.=20 The Occult Doctrine teaches that:=20 (1) THERE IS NO IMMEDIATE REINCARNATION ON EARTH FOR THE MONAD, as falsely taught by the Reincarnationist Spiritists; nor is there any second incarnation at all for the "personal" or false Ego--the perisprit--save the exceptional cases mentioned. But that (a) there are rebirths, or periodical reincarnations for the immortal Ego--("Ego" during the cycle of re-births, and non-Ego, in Nirvana or Moksha when it becomes impersonal and absolute); for that Ego is the root of every new incarnation, the string on which are threaded, one after the other, the false personalities or illusive bodies called men, in which the Monad-Ego incarnates itself during the cycle of births; and (b) that such reincarnations take place not before 1,500, 2,000 and even 3,000 years of Devachanic life.=20 (2) That MANAS--THE SEAT OF JIV, that spark which runs the round of the cycle of birth and rebirths with the Monad from the beginning to the end of a Manvantara--IS THE REAL EGO. That=20 (a) the Jiv follows the divine monad that gives it spiritual life and immortality into Devachan--that therefore, it can neither be reborn before its appointed period, nor reappear on Earth visibly or invisibly in the interim; and=20 (b) that, unless the fruition, the spiritual aroma of the Manas, or all these highest aspirations and spiritual qualities and attributes that constitute the higher SELF of man become united to its monad, the latter becomes as Non existent; since it is in esse "impersonal" and per se Ego-less, so to say, and gets its spiritual colouring or flavour of Ego-tis= m only from each Manas during incarnation and after it is disembodied, and separated from all its lower principles.=20 (3) That the remaining four principles, or rather the 2=BD--as they are composed of the terrestrial portion of Manas, of its Vehicle Kama-Rupa and Lingha Sarira--the body dissolving immediately, and prana or the life principle along with it--that these principles having belonged to the false personality are unfit for Devachan. The latter is the state of Bliss, the reward for all the undeserved miseries of life, [6] and that which prompted man to sin, namely his terrestrial passionate nature, can have no room in it.=20 Therefore the reincarnating* principles are left behind in Kama-loka, firstly as a material residue, then later on as a reflection on the mirror of Astral light. Endowed with illusive action, to the day when having gradually faded out they disappear, what is it but the Greek Eidolon and th= e simulacrum of the Greek and Latin poets and classics?=20 What reward or punishment can there be in that sphere of disembodied human entities for a f=9Ctus or a human embryo which had not even time to breathe= on this earth, still less an opportunity to exercise the divine faculties of its spirit? Or, for an irresponsible infant, whose senseless monad remainin= g dormant within the astral and physical casket, could as little prevent him from burning himself as any other person to death? Or again for one idiotic from birth, the number of whose cerebral circumvolutions is only from twent= y to thirty per cent of those of sane persons, and who therefore is irresponsible for either his disposition, acts, or for the imperfections of his vagrant, half developed intellect. (Isis I, 352.)=20 These are, then, the "exceptions" spoken of in Isis, and the doctrine is maintained now as it was then. Moreover, there is no "discrepancy" but only incompleteness--hence, misconceptions arising from later teachings. Then again, there are several important mistakes in Isis which, as the plates of the work had been stereotyped, were not corrected in subsequent editions.=20 One of such is on page 346, and another in connection with it and as a sequence on page 347.=20 The discrepancy between the first portion of the statement and the last, ought to have suggested the idea of an evident mistake. It is addressed to the spiritists, reincarnationists who take the more than ambiguous words of Apuleius as a passage that corroborates their claims for their "spirits" an= d reincarnation. Let the reader judge [7] whether Apuleius does not justify rather our assertions. We are charged with denying reincarnation and this i= s what we said there and then in Isis!=20 The philosophy teaches that nature never leaves her work unfinished; if baffled at the first attempt, she tries again. When she evolves a human embryo the intention is that a man shall be perfected--physically, intellectually, and spiritually. His body is to grow, mature, wear out, and die; his mind unfold, ripen, and be harmoniously balanced; his divine spiri= t illuminate and blend easily with the inner man. No human being completes it= s grand cycle, or the "circle of necessity," until all these are accomplished= . As the laggards in a race struggle and plod in their first quarter while th= e victor darts past the goal, SO, IN THE RACE OF IMMORTALITY, SOME SOULS OUTSPEED ALL THE REST AND REACH THE END, WHILE THEIR MYRIAD COMPETITORS ARE TOILING UNDER THE LOAD OF MATTER, CLOSE TO THE STARTING POINT. Some unfortunates fall out entirely and lose all chance of the prize; some retrace their steps and begin again.=20 Clear enough this, one should say. NATURE BAFFLED TRIES AGAIN. NO ONE CAN PASS OUT OF THIS WORLD (OUR EARTH) WITHOUT BECOMING PERFECTED "PHYSICALLY, MORALLY, AND SPIRITUALLY."=20 How can this be done, unless there is a series of rebirths required for the necessary perfection in each department--to evolute in the "circle of necessity," can surely never be found in one human life? and yet this sentence is followed without any break by the following parenthetical statement: "This is what the Hindu dreads above all things--transmigration and reincarnation; only on other and inferior planets, never on this one!!!= " The last "sentence" is a fatal mistake and one to which the writer pleads "not guilty." It is evidently the blunder of some "reader" who had no idea of Hindu philosophy and who was led into a subsequent mistake on the next page, wherein the unfortunate word "planet" is put for cycle.=20 Isis [Unveiled] was hardly, if ever, looked into after its publication by its writer, who had other work to do; otherwise there would have been an apology and a page pointing to the errata and the sentence made to run: "Th= e Hindu dreads transmigration in other inferior forms, on this planet."=20 This would have dove-tailed with the preceding sentence, and would show a fact, as the Hindu exoteric views allow him to believe and fear the possibility of reincarnation--human and animal in turn by jumps, from man t= o beast and even a plant--and vice versa;=20 whereas ESOTERIC PHILOSOPHY TEACHES that nature never proceeding backward i= n her evolutionary progress, once that man has evoluted from every kind of lower forms--the mineral, vegetable, and animal kingdoms--into the human form, he can never become an animal except morally, hence--metaphorically.= =20 Human incarnation is a cyclic necessity, and law; and no Hindu dreads it--however much he may deplore the necessity. And this law and the periodical recurrence of man's rebirth is shown on the same page (346) and in the same unbroken paragraph, where it is closed by saying that:=20 But there is a way to avoid it.=20 Buddha taught it in his doctrine of poverty, restriction of the senses, perfect indifference to the objects of this earthly vale of tears, freedom from passion, and frequent intercommunication with the Atma--soul-contemplation.=20 The cause of reincarnation [8] is ignorance of our senses, and the idea tha= t there is any reality in the world, anything except abstract existence. From the organs of sense comes the "hallucination" we call contact; "from contact, desire; from desire, sensation (which also is a deception of our body); from sensation, the cleaving to existing bodies from this cleaving, reproduction; and from reproduction, disease, decay and death."=20 This ought to settle the question and show there must have been some carelessly unnoticed mistake, and if this is not sufficient, there is something else to demonstrate it, for it is further on:=20 Thus, like the revolutions of a wheel, there is a regular succession of death and birth, the moral cause of which is the cleaving to existing objects, while the instrumental cause is Karma (the power which controls th= e universe, prompting it to activity), merit and demerit. It is therefore the greatest desire of all beings who would be released from the sorrows of successive birth, to seek the destruction of the moral cause, the cleaving to existing objects, or evil desire.=20 THEY IN WHOM EVIL DESIRE IS ENTIRELY DESTROYED ARE CALLED ARHATS. Freedom from evil desire insures the possession of a miraculous power. At his death the Arhat is never reincarnated; he invariably attains nirvana--a word, by the by, falsely interpreted by the Christian scholar and skeptical commentators.=20 NIRVANA IS THE WORLD OF CAUSE, IN WHICH ALL DECEPTIVE EFFECTS OR DELUSIONS OF OUR SENSES DISAPPEAR. NIRVANA IS THE HIGHEST ATTAINABLE SPHERE.=20 The pitris (the pre-Adamic spirits) are considered as reincarnated by the Buddhistic philosopher, though in a degree far superior to that of the man of earth. Do they not die in their turn? Do not their astral bodies suffer and rejoice, and feel the same curse of illusionary feelings as when embodied?=20 And just after this we are again made to say of Buddha and his: Doctrine of "Merit and Demerit," or Karma:=20 But this former life believed in by the Buddhists, is not a life on this planet for, more than any other people, the Buddhistical philosopher appreciated the great doctrine of cycles.=20 Correct "life on this planet" by "life in the same cycle," and you will hav= e the correct reading: for what would have appreciation of "the great doctrin= e of cycles" to do with Buddha's philosophy, had the great sage believed but in one short life on this Earth and in the same cycle. But to return to the real theory of reincarnation as in the esoteric teaching and its unlucky rendering in Isis.=20 Thus, what was really meant therein, was that, the principle which does not reincarnate--save the exceptions pointed out--is the false personality, the illusive human Entity defined and individualized during this short life of ours, under some specific form and name; but THAT WHICH DOES AND HAS TO REINCARNATE NOLENS VOLENS UNDER THE UNFLINCHING, STERN RULE OF KARMIC LAW--IS THE REAL EGO.=20 This confusing of the real immortal Ego in man, with the false and ephemera= l personalities it inhabits during its Manvantaric progress, lies at the root of every such misunderstanding. Now what is the one, and what is the other? The first group is--=20 1. The immortal Spirit--sexless, formless (arupa), an emanation from the On= e universal BREATH.=20 2. Its Vehicle--the divine Soul--called the "Immortal Ego," the "Divine monad," etc., etc., which by accretions from Manas in which burns the ever existing Jiv--the undying spark--adds to itself at the close of each incarnation the essence of that individuality that was, the aroma of the culled flower that is no more.=20 What is the false personality? It is that bundle of desires, aspirations, affection and hatred, in short of action, manifested by a human being on this earth during one incarnation and under the form of one personality. [9= ] Certainly it is not all this, which as a fact for us, the deluded, material= , and materially thinking lot--is Mr. So and So, or Mrs. somebody else--that remains immortal, or is ever reborn.=20 All that bundle of Egotism, that apparent and evanescent "I" disappears after death, as the costume of the part he played disappears from the actor's body, after he leaves the theatre and goes to bed. That actor re-becomes at once the same "John Smith" or Gray, he was from his birth and is no longer the Othello or Hamlet that he had represented for a few hours. Nothing remains now of that "bundle" to go to the next incarnation, except the seed for future Karma that Manas may have united to its immortal group, to form with it--the disembodied Higher Self in "Devachan."=20 As to the four lower principles, that which becomes of them is found in mos= t classics, from which we mean to quote at length for our defense. The doctrine of the perisprit, the "false personality," or the remains of the deceased under their astral form--fading out to disappear in time, is terribly distasteful to the spiritualists, who insist upon confusing the temporary with the immortal EGO.=20 Unfortunately for them and happily for us, it is not the modern Occultists who have invented the doctrine. They are on their defense. And they prove what they say, i.e., that no "personality" has ever yet been "reincarnated" "on the same planet" (our earth, this once there is no mistake) save in the three exceptional cases above cited. Adding to these a fourth case, which i= s the deliberate, conscious act of adeptship; and that such an astral body belongs neither to the body nor the soul still less to the immortal spirit of man, the following is brought forward and proofs cited.=20 Before one brings out on the strength of undeniable manifestations, theorie= s as to what produces them and claims at once on prima facie evidence that it is the spirits of the departed mortals that revisit us, it behooves one to first study what antiquity has declared upon the subject.=20 Ghosts and apparitions, materialized and semi-material "SPIRITS" have not originated with Allan Kardec, nor at Rochester. If those beings whose invariable habit it is to give themselves out for souls and the phantoms of the dead, choose to do so and succeed, it is only because the cautious philosophy of old is now replaced by an a priori conceit, and unproven assumptions.=20 The first question is to be settled-- "Have spirits any kind of substance to clothe themselves with?" Answer: Tha= t which is now called perisprit in France, and a "materialized Form" in England and America, was called in days of old peri-psyche, and peri-nous, hence was well known to the old Greeks. Have they a body whether gaseous, fluidic, etherial, material or semi-material? No; we say this on the authority of the occult teachings the world over. For with the Hindus atma or spirit is Arupa, bodiless, and with the Greeks also.=20 Even in the Roman Catholic Church the angels of Light as those of Darkness are absolutely incorporeal: "meri spiritus, omnes corporis expertes," and i= n the words of The Secret Doctrine, primordial.=20 Emanations of the undifferentiated Principle, the Dhyan Chohans of the ONE (First) category or pure Spiritual Essence, are formed of the Spirit of the one Element; the second category, of the second Emanation of the Soul of th= e Elements; the third have a "mind body" to which they are not subject, but that they can assume and govern as a body, subject to them, pliant to their will in form and substance.=20 Parting from this (third) category, they (the spirits, angels, Devas or Dhyan Chohans) have BODIES, the first rupa group of which is composed of on= e element Ether; the second, of two--ether and fire; the third, of three--Ether, fire and water; the fourth, of four--Ether, air, fire and water.=20 Then comes man, who, besides the four elements, has the fifth that predominates in him--Earth: therefore he suffers.=20 Of the Angels, as said by St. Augustine and Peter Lombard, "their bodies ar= e made to act, not to suffer. It is earth and water, humor et humus, that gives an aptitude for suffering and passivity, ad patientiam, and Ether and Fire for action."=20 The spirits or human monads, belonging to the first, or undifferentiated essence, are thus incorporeal; but their third principle (or the human Fifth--Manas) can in conjunction with its vehicle become Kama rupa and Mayavi rupa--body of desire or "illusion body."=20 After death, the best, noblest, purest qualities of Manas or the human soul ascending along with the divine Monad into Devachan whence no one emerges from or returns, except at the time of reincarnation--what is that then which appears under the double mask of the spiritual Ego or soul of the departed individual?=20 The Kama rupa element with the help of elementals. For we are taught that those spiritual beings that can assume a form at will and appear, i.e., mak= e themselves objective and even tangible--are the angels alone (the Dhyan Chohans) and the nirmanakaya [10] of the adepts, whose spirits are clothed in sublime matter.=20 The astral bodies--the remnants and dregs of a mortal being which has been disembodied, when they do appear, are not the individuals they claim to be, but only their simulachres. And such was the belief of the whole of antiquity, from Homer to Swedenborg; from the third race down to our own day.=20 More than one devoted spiritualist has hitherto quoted Paul as corroboratin= g his claim that spirits do and can appear. "There is a natural and there is = a spiritual body," etc., etc., (I Cor. xv: 44); but one has only to study closer the verses preceding and following the one quoted, to perceive that what St. Paul meant was quite different from the sense claimed for it.=20 Surely there is a spiritual body, but it is not identical with the astral form contained in the "natural" man. The "spiritual" is formed only by our individuality unclothed and transformed after death; for the apostle takes care to explain in Verses 51 and 52, "Immut abimur sed non omnes." Behold, = I tell you a mystery: we shall not all sleep but we shall all be changed. Thi= s corruptible must put on incorruption and this mortal must put on immortality.=20 But this is no proof except for the Christians.=20 Let us see what the old Egyptians and the Neo-Platonists--both "theurgists" par excellence, thought on the subject: They divided man into three principal groups subdivided into principles as we do: pure immortal spirit; the "Spectral Soul" (a luminous phantom) and the gross material body.=20 Apart from the latter, which was considered as the terrestrial shell, these groups were divided into six principles;=20 (1) Kha "vital body";=20 (2) Khaba "astral form," or shadow;=20 (3) Khou "animal soul";=20 (4) Akh "terrestrial intelligence";=20 (5) Sa "the divine soul" (or Buddhi); and=20 (6) Sah or mummy, the functions of which began after death.=20 Osiris was the highest uncreated spirit, for it was, in one sense, a generi= c name, every man becoming after his translation Osirified, i.e., absorbed into Osiris-Sun or into the glorious divine state.=20 It was Khou, with the lower portions of Akh or Kama rupa with the addition of the dregs of Manas remaining all behind in the astral light of our atmosphere--that formed the counterparts of the terrible and so much dreade= d bhoots of the Hindus (our "elementaries"). This is seen in the rendering made of the so-called "Harris Papyrus on magic" (papyrus magique, translate= d by Chabas) who calls them Kouey or Khou, and explains that according to the hieroglyphics they were called Khou or the "revivified dead," the "resurrected shadows." [11] =20 When it was said of a person that he "had a Khou" it meant that he was possessed by a "Spirit." There were two kinds of Khous--the justified ones--who after living for a short time a second life (nam onh) faded out, disappeared; and those Khous who were condemned to wandering without rest i= n darkness after dying for a second time--mut, em, nam--and who were called the H'ou--m=E9tre ("second time dead") which did not prevent them from clinging to a vicarious life after the manner of Vampires. How dreaded they were is explained in our Appendices on Egyptian Magic and "Chinese Spirits" (Secret Doctrine).=20 They were exorcised by Egyptian priests as the evil spirit is exorcised by the Roman Catholic cur=E9; or again the Chinese houen, identical with the K= hou and the "ELEMENTARY," as also with the lares or larv=E6--a word derived fro= m the former by Festus, the grammarian; who explains that they were "the shadows of the dead who gave no rest in the house they were in either to th= e Masters or the servants."=20 These creatures when evoked during theurgic, and especially necromantic rites, were regarded, and are so regarded still, in China--as neither the Spirit, Soul nor anything belonging to the deceased personality they represented, but simply, as his reflection--simulacrum.=20 --------------------------------------------- Further references on these subjects will be found in the SECRET DOCTRINE (use INDEX) and The KEY TO THEOSOPHY. Best wishes, Dallas =20 From dalval14@earthlink.net Wed Jan 04 05:58:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93185 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2006 13:58:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2006 13:58:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.68) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2006 13:58:22 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Eu91w-0005v9-8v; Wed, 04 Jan 2006 08:50:20 -0500 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 05:50:07 -0800 Message-ID: <004701c61135$ca0b87d0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79fb4876d6999ee4d01da561460ad2dd5a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.68 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: REMEMBERING THE EXPERIENCES OF THE EGO X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=n0LoWJ6GxASx7Be817wKLshrB0M1hRmrCcma2YkYOC_A3Q X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 REMEMBERING THE EXPERIENCES=20 OF THE EGO TO many it seems puzzling that we do not remember the experiences of the Higher Self in sleep. But as long as we ask "Why does not the lower self remember these experiences," we shall never have an answer. There is a contradiction in the question, because the lower self, never having had the experiences it is required to remember, could not at any time recollect them. When sleep comes on, the engine and instrument of the lower personality is stopped, and can do nothing but what may be called automatic acts. The brai= n is not in use, and hence no consciousness exists for it until the waking moment returns. The ego, when thus released from the physical chains, from its hard daily task of living with and working through the bodily organs, proceeds to enjoy the experiences of the plane of existence which is peculiarly its own.=20 On that plane it uses a method and processes of thought, and perceives the ideas appropriate to it through organs different from those of the body. Al= l that it sees and hears (if we may use those terms) appears reversed from ou= r plane. The language, so to say, is a foreign one even to the inner language used when awake.=20 So, upon reassuming life in the body, all that it has to tell its lower companion must be spoken in a strange tongue, and for the body that is an obstruction to comprehension. We hear the words, but only now and then obtain flashes of their meaning. It is something like the English-speaking person who knows a few foreign words entering a foreign town and there bein= g only able to grasp those few terms as he hears them among the multitude of other words and sentences which he does not understand.=20 What we have to do, then, is to learn the language of the Ego, so that we shall not fail to make a proper translation to ourselves. For at all times the language of the plane through which the Ego nightly floats is a foreign one to the brain we use, and has to be always translated for use by the brain. If the interpretation is incorrect, the experience of the Ego will never be made complete to the lower man.=20 But it may be asked if there is an actual language for the Ego, having its sound and corresponding signs. Evidently not; for, if there were, there would have been made a record of it during all those countless years that sincere students have been studying themselves. It is not a language in the ordinary sense. It is more nearly described as a communication of ideas and experience by means of pictures.=20 So with it a sound may be pictured as a color or a figure, and an odor as a vibrating line; an historical event may be not only shown as a picture, but also as a light or a shadow, or as a sickening smell or delightful incense; the vast mineral world may not only exhibit its planes and angles and colors, but also its vibrations and lights.=20 Or, again, the ego may have reduced its perceptions of size and distance fo= r its own purposes, and, having the mental capacity for the time of the ant, it may report to the bodily organs a small hole as an abyss, or the grass o= f the field as a gigantic forest. These are adduced by way of example, and ar= e not to be taken as hard and fast lines of description. Upon awakening, a great hindrance is found in our own daily life and terms of speech and thought to the right translation of these experiences, and th= e only way in which we can use them with full benefit is by making ourselves porous, so to speak, to the influences from the higher self, and by living and thinking in such a manner as will be most likely to bring about the aim of the soul. This leads us unerringly to virtue and knowledge, for the vices and the passions eternally becloud our perception of the meaning of what the Ego tries to tell us. It is for this reason that the sages inculcate virtue. Is it not plain that, if the vicious could accomplish the translation of the Ego's language, they would have done it long ago, and is it not known to us all that only among the virtuous can the Sages be found? Eusebio Urban Path, June, 1890 ---------------------------------------------------- Best wishes, Dallas =20 From saidevo@yahoo.co.in Wed Jan 04 07:56:25 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: saidevo@yahoo.co.in X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94641 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2006 15:56:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2006 15:56:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.224) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2006 15:56:23 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n4.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2006 15:54:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by mailer1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2006 15:54:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.69] by mailer8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2006 15:54:24 -0000 Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 15:54:23 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 216.155.203.224 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 219.65.101.146 From: "saidevotee" Subject: Spiritual Inquiries: 8. The Mental World - Part 1 of 2 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=227523244; y=AcaGXvf0cm8e-utZhlgO00rSfarTA-b-dKgCLcmrxo12RA X-Yahoo-Profile: saidevo What is called mind is a wonderous power residing in the Self. It=20 causes all thoughts to arise. Apart from thoughts, there is no such=20 thing as mind. Therefore, thought is the nature of mind. Apart from=20 thought, there is no independent entity called the world.=20 In deep sleep there are no thoughts, and there is no world. In the=20 states of waking and dream, there are thoughts and there is a world=20 also. Just as the spider emits the thread (of the web) out of itself=20 and again withdraws it into itself, likewise the mind projects the=20 world out of itself and again resolves it into itself.=20 -- Sri Ramana Maharshi=20 ------- The Mental (or Manasic) World belongs to our consciousness working=20 as thought. Thoughts arise in the mind. The mind works in its own=20 world, besides expressing itself through the physical brain.=20 The word 'man' comes from the Sanskrit root man meaning 'to think'.=20 So 'man' is a 'thinker', named after his most characteristic=20 attribute, intelligence.=20 The Nature of the Mind=20 ---------------------- Neuroscience tries to explain mind and thoughts in terms of the=20 matter of the physical brain, as a result of neurochemical=20 processes. Is this a plausible and complete explanation?=20 Think of a horse. This thought immediately brings up the figure of a=20 horse that you can virtually see in your mind. The figure might be=20 vague, but still you can recognize it. As you concentrate on this=20 figure, with eyes open or closed, the figure gradually gets painted=20 into a picture. Not just a two-dimensional picture of a photograph,=20 but a cinematic, three-dimensional one.=20 Apart from seeing, you can also 'feel' the horse that your mind is=20 seeing. And from the model horse you are seeing, you can easily=20 derive and imagine other horses--larger horses, smaller ones, horses=20 with different hues, and horses in action! You are 'seeing' the=20 horses, which means you are employing the visual sense (the mind's=20 eye) to recognize them.=20 The impulse of a small thought has brought up so much of a visual=20 scenery of living horses in the mind! Such is the power of thought.=20 Obviously, the horses you see with your mind, occupy some space. Can=20 this space be purely physical, made of the grey matter of the brain=20 and nerve cells, and located inside the brain? If the space and the=20 processes are purely physical, they should account for where and how=20 the past impressions of a set of horses are stored, how these=20 impressions are retrieved from their storage and how and where they=20 are displayed for visually sensing them.=20 There are other points to consider with the thinking of a horse.=20 You are able to make up the figure of a horse in your mind, because=20 of one or more previous visual experiences of seeing horses.=20 Normally, a child cannot do it until it is taught about a horse.=20 Suppose you are asked to spell the word horse. In this case, you are=20 given a phonetic representation and are asked to translate it into a=20 symbolic representation of a language. You might not know the actual=20 spelling of horse, and might end up with 'hors' or 'haurs', for=20 example, in English, but that would still echo the sound of the=20 name. You can do this translation, even if you haven't seen a single=20 horse in your life or know nothing about it!=20 These two ways of thinking show that human mind thinks in terms of=20 pictures mainly, but can also generate thoughts based on sound.=20 Thoughts based on sound could be powerful with healing properties,=20 as in the case of chanting mantras. While a picture spreads out the=20 vibrations caused by the thought, sound channelizes them.=20 Now, think of an animal in general terms. Here you think in terms of=20 a concept or an idea that cannot be formed into a figure. The term=20 animal might actually conjure up the picture of any animal, but you=20 use it only to arrive at the features and behaviour of an animal.=20 Even without conscious thinking you could 'know' the idea of an=20 animal.=20 Thus we understand that the term animal is a lingual representation=20 of an abstract thought. The term horse refers to a concrete shape of=20 an abstract thought, which has a form (rupa) and a name (nama).=20 Which came first, name or form?=20 It seems that we can't think of a form without a name. At the same=20 time, ideas or concepts have names but no forms. How do we resolve=20 this conundrum?=20 The vibration generated by a name manifests as sound energy, while=20 forms generate the configurational world. So, can we say that it is=20 the sound that comes first, and sound creates the forms?=20 Essentially, that's what the great religious truths say.=20 Hinduism affirms that the primordial sound Aum creates, maintains=20 and dissolves everything in this universe. This divine vibration Aum=20 is the undertone of every atom, physical and spiritual. It is the=20 song of the atoms, the song of the celestial spheres. It manifests=20 as the Trinity, as the three gunas that constitute the universe and=20 all its beings. It purifies body and soul, regulates breath and=20 accelerates spiritual evolution in a human being.=20 Aum is the Word that Bible refers to: "In the beginning was the=20 Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."--John 1:1.=20 The Word was God, the unmanifested nada Brahman.=20 Doesn't this mean that God as the unmanifested Brahman is formless=20 and that when he willed to manifest, he created the universe using=20 his Word Aum? But where did he create the universe from? Out of his=20 formless, abstract Self. And God created man in his own image so=20 that man would understand the underlying formless nature of the=20 universe, even while enjoying the temporal fruits of the formed=20 world, and ascend back to godhood.=20 As human beings, we need names to understand forms that exist in=20 this universe. We need names to express and understand our emotions=20 that take forms in the astral world. We need names for our concrete=20 thoughts that take forms in the lower mental world, and names for=20 our abstract thoughts that are generally formless in the higher=20 mental world.=20 In the same way, we need names and forms to understand and=20 experience God. This does not mean that the formed gods were=20 creations of human thought. Hinduism, Theosophy and the ancient=20 traditions have enlightened us that the infinite, formless Brahman=20 has indeed manifested as the Trinity, the other gods, devas, rishis=20 and the entire divine hierarchy, down to the grossest atom of the=20 physical world.=20 Formed gods are the milestones in the path of spiritual evolution.=20 At the end of the journey is the formless, nirguna Brahman, which is=20 the ultimate goal of every soul.=20 Hinduism has given us three beautiful paths to evolution: Karma,=20 Bhakti and Jnana. In the Karma yogic path, we have dharmic=20 milestones. In the Bhakti yogic path, love and compassion for all=20 that lives form the milestones. In the Jnana yogic path, peace and=20 bliss are the milestones to reach, walking all over the path of love=20 and compassion.=20 The three paths are not separate or different from one another. They=20 are involved in each other, just as the seven worlds interpenetrate=20 each other. For this reason, Hinduism has given the formula of=20 dharma, artha, kama, moksha, (righteous living, earning, enjoying=20 and the ultimate liberation) as the goals of human life, where=20 dharma is the underlying current of all the goals.=20 In English the word 'mind' stands both for the intellectual=20 consciousness and for the effects produced on the physical brain by=20 that consciousness. In occultism however, we must conceive of the=20 intellectual consciousness as an individual entity, a being, the=20 vibrations of whose life are thoughts, expressed not as physical=20 words, but as images.=20 Hinduism has four terms that describe the four functions of human=20 mind: manas, chitta, ahamkara and buddhi. Manas is the sensory,=20 processing mind. Chitta is the storage of impressions. Ahamkara is=20 the Ego, the 'I-maker'. And Buddhi knows, decides, judges and=20 discriminates.=20 The seven principles that make a human being are of two parts: the=20 higher triad (Atma-Buddhi-Manas) and the lower quartet=20 (physical-etheric double-astral-kamarupa). It is helpful to think of=20 the higher triad as the Self or the Ego, (notice the=20 capitalization), and the lower quartet as the self or the ego.=20 In the example above, the thought of a horse originated from the=20 ahamkara or ego, and brought up the impression of a horse from=20 chitta, which was played out by the manas, guided by buddhi.=20 That the brain is only a physical medium of expresion of the mind=20 can also be explained using the analogy of a computer system.=20 God created man in His own image, giving him the distinctive=20 features of intellect, wisdom and rational thinking. Man created=20 computer in his own image, but couldn't make it think like him=20 (thank heavens!).=20 In a computer system, the microprocessor (CPU) and the main memory=20 (RAM and ROM) represent the brain of the computer. The hard disk=20 drive is a storage area of reference and retrieval, located outside=20 the brain (as with a library). The peripherals such as the monitor,=20 keyboard, speakers, microphone, mouse, scanner, printer, modem, etc.=20 form the sensory units of the computer. All these hardware devices=20 form the physical body of the computer.=20 The consciousness of the computer is the operating system and other=20 software that run on the hardware. The operating system is the=20 ahamkara or ego of the computer. The hard disk drive is the chitta=20 where the impressions are stored. The impressions are brought up to=20 the computer's brain from the chitta by a piece of software that=20 represents the buddhi, via the operating system. And the impressions=20 are expressed through the computer's senses of output and input, the=20 equivalent of the manas.=20 What about the electricity without which nothing is possible? It is=20 the divine energy or the life-force which is localized in the body=20 of the computer to give expression to its life. The electronic=20 components of a computer can withstand only a small voltage of=20 electricity, so the 'life-force' is stepped down using a transformer=20 called SMPS (switch mode power supply) inside the computer system.=20 In a similar way, the divine life-force is stepped down inside us,=20 to the level our bodies can use it. The spiritually healthier our=20 bodes are, the higher will be the level we can use the divine=20 life-force. The Tamil Saint Tirumular has a beautiful verse on this=20 truth in his book Tirumantiram:=20 "If the body decays, the soul will decay too;=20 Such people can't receive the Truth in full strength.=20 Knowing the ways to foster my body,=20 I keep fostering my soul!" In its life on the waking consciousness or the jagrat state, the=20 computer runs software programs and expresses the results through=20 its senses. In the stand by mode, it goes to the dream or svapna=20 state. And when the power is switched off, it goes to the deep sleep=20 or sushupti state.=20 This analogy can hardly be stretched to include the human who=20 operates the computer, as representing God, because, unlike God, a=20 human is a person of whims and fancies.=20 Now, in this analogy, to say that the software is a product or a set=20 of processes that evolve out of the hardware is to put the cart=20 before the horse. This is like saying that the computer thought up=20 the software!=20 If computers are able to think up their own software and learn to=20 function on their own, as we see in sci-fi stories and movies, they=20 will certainly dispute the superiority of humans as their masters,=20 and humans cannot function independently in the physical world. At=20 that time, perhaps, humans might forget the differences between them=20 and unite to establish peace by bringing the adharmic electronic=20 forces under control.=20 Thoughts raise up in the mind from the impressions or samskaras=20 stored in the chitta, and play like the waves of the ocean. Abstract=20 or shapeless thoughts are known by intutions arising out of the=20 buddhi. Concreate or formed thoughts may be intellectual or=20 emotional. Every action of ours has its origin in a thought, which=20 is why the saying mano vaakku kaayam or mind-thought-deed. Here=20 vaakku is not the verbal expression of a thought, but the rupa or=20 formed level of thoughts.=20 Mind or Manas is usually classified into two parts: the Lower Manas=20 and the Higher Manas. Pure intellect is the higher manas, while the=20 part that originates thoughts coupled with desire is called the=20 lower manas.=20 Just as a turbulent ocean can only reflect the moon in bits and=20 pieces, so also a turbulent mind can only reflect the Self in bits=20 and pieces. When the mind is stilled, the Self shines in its full=20 splendour and the only state that remains is shanti or peace and=20 anand or bliss.=20 The Mental World=20 ---------------- The mental world is the home of the real man, who is Manas, or the=20 Thinker. He works on the higher or causal levels of the mental=20 world, setting up vibrations in the matter of the mental world. Only=20 a small section of these vibrations, and even that imperfectly, can=20 be reproduced in the comparatively coarse physical materials.=20 Just as the human eye can sense only a set of electromagnetic=20 vibrations known as the visible spectrum of light (falling within=20 the seven colors VIBGYOR), so also the physical thought-apparatus,=20 the brain and nervous system, can sense only a small fragment of the=20 vast series of mental vibrations set up by the Thinker in his own=20 world.=20 Annie Besant analyses the receptive capacity of the human brain in=20 her book The Ancient Wisdom, thus:=20 "The most receptive brains respond up to the point of what we call=20 the great intellectual power; the exceptionally receptive brains=20 respond up to the point of what we call genius; the exceptionally=20 unreceptive brains respond only up to the point we call idiocy; but=20 every one sends beating against his brain millions of thought-waves=20 to which it cannot respond, owing to the density of its materials,=20 and just in proportion to its sensitiveness are the so-called mental=20 powers of each."=20 The mental world reflects the Universal Mind in Nature, and relates=20 to the Great Mind in the Cosmos (Mahat, the Third LOGOS, or Divine=20 Creative Intelligence, the Brahma of the Hindus, the Mandjusri of=20 the Northern Buddhists, the Holy Spirit of the Christians.)=20 The Universal Mind, which is the mind of Brahma, contains the sum=20 total of the minds of all beings--right up to the Manu, who is the=20 first in the hierarchy. In this Universal Mind, everything exists=20 archetypically. It is the source of beings, the fount of fashioning=20 energies, the treasure-house in which are stored up all the=20 archetypal forms which are brought forth and elaborated in lower=20 kinds of matter during the evolution of the universe. These are the=20 fruits of past universes brought over as seeds for unfoldment in the=20 present universe.=20 Brahma is the first of the manus, and is known by the name=20 Svayambhuva manu. When his life term of a manvantara starts, he=20 appoints 14 manus (in seven pairs) to implement the task of=20 creation, which is a task of giving shapes to archetypes in the mind=20 of Brahma, brought over from the past universes. Our humanity is=20 said to be in the fifth of the seven root-races of the fourth round=20 of evolution in a globe, and is headed by Vaivasvata manu. The point=20 to note here is that the root-race manu examines the mighty=20 thought-form of the Logos that refers to his work, and 'downloads'=20 it to his level for easy reference. More on races and rounds later.=20 The Sub-planes of the Mental World=20 ---------------------------------- The Mental World of the earth is located next to the Astral World,=20 but permeates it. It is far larger than the astral world and extents=20 farther into space. An ultimate atom of the mental world has 49^4 or=20 5,764,801 (roughly five and three quarter million) "bubbles in=20 koilon".=20 Life on the mental world is more active than on the astral, and form=20 more plastic. The spirit-matter of that plane is more vitalized than=20 any grade of matter in the astral world. Since mental matter is far=20 finer than the astral matter, it follows that the life-forces on the=20 mental world are enormously increased in activity.=20 The matter is in constant motion, taking form under every thrill of=20 life. Compared to this "mind-stuff", the luminous astral matter=20 looks heavy, clumsy and dull. In the physical world, light moves=20 faster than sound because its vibrations are more rapid than those=20 of sound. The vibrations of mental matter are far more rapid than=20 physical matter, so in the mental world matter moves with thought;=20 in the astral world, matter moves after thought. Just as a particle=20 of physical matter floats in a sea of astral matter, so also each=20 particle of astral matter floats in an ocean of mental matter.=20 The mental world is the region of our birthplace and our home. Since=20 we are imprisoned in a physical body, the descriptions of the mental=20 world look alien to us.=20 As with the physical and the astral world, the mental world has=20 seven subdivisions. These subdivisions are grouped into two: the=20 arupa (without form) and the rupa (with form). The lower four=20 subdivisions form the rupa level; the higher three form the arupa=20 level.=20 In the rupa level, the vibrations set up by the consciousness take a=20 form, an image or a picture and every thought appears as a living=20 shape.=20 In the arupa level, the consciousness still sets up vibrations, but=20 it seems to send them out as a mighty stream of living energy, which=20 is formless when remaining in this level, but when it descends into=20 the rupa level, it sets up a variety of forms which rush into the=20 lower worlds.=20 Abstract thoughts are formed at the arupa level, concrete thoughts=20 at the rupa level. An abstract idea has conditions, but no form. For=20 example, an abstract idea of a triangle has no form but is=20 understood to be any figure contained in three lines, with their=20 angles summing up to two right angles.=20 Such an idea, thrown into the lower world of rupa levels, takes a=20 variety of shapes: right-angled, isosceles, scalene, of any colour=20 and size, but all filling the conditions =96 concrete triangles, each=20 one with a definite shape of its own.=20 Another broad distinction between the rupa and the arupa levels of=20 the mental world is that on the rupa levels a man lives in his own=20 thoughts, and fully identifies himself with his personality in the=20 life which he has recently quitted. Personal pride and prejudices=20 create illusions in the rupa levels, but to a man who can function=20 there in full consciousness during physical life, the illusions=20 appear less than to an undeveloped person who goes to mental world=20 only after death.=20 On the arupa levels a man is simply the reincarnating ego who,=20 provided he is sufficiently developed on that level to know anything=20 at all, understands, at least to some extent, the evolution upon=20 which he is engaged, and the work that he has to do. Though there=20 will be much that the ego does not know on these levels, what he=20 does know he knows correctly.=20 In the arupa levels of the mental world exist all the archetypal=20 ideas which are now in course of concrete evolution. The rupa levels=20 are working out these ideas into forms that will be reproduced in=20 the astral and physical worlds. Every new invention or discovery in=20 the physical world has its precursors in the subtler worlds.=20 Just as iron can be shaped as a spade for digging or a sword for=20 slaying, so also a thought can be shaped to be benevolent or=20 harmful. The spirit-matter of the mental world responds readily with=20 thought-forms that vibrate in indescribable and exquisite colours of=20 varying shades like the rainbow hues of mother-of-pearl.=20 "Every seer who has witnessed it, Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, speaks=20 in rapturous terms of its glorious beauty, and ever confesses his=20 utter inability to describe it; words seem but to coarsen and=20 deprave it, however deftly woven in its praise." -- Annie Besant in=20 The Ancient Wisdom.=20 People who have seen the mental world in full consciousness in=20 physical life run out of words trying to describe the matter and=20 life on the lowest of its sub-planes. As to the higher sub-planes,=20 all that can be said is, that as we ascend, the material becomes=20 finer, the harmonies fuller, the light more living and transparent.=20 There are more overtones in the sound, more delicate shades in the=20 colours, more and new colours appear, as we rise through the=20 sub-planes. It has been said poetically, and truly, that the light=20 of a lower plane is darkness on the one above it.=20 On the highest sub-plane the matter is ensouled and vivified by an=20 energy which flows like light from above, from the buddhic plane. As=20 we descend through each sub-plane, the matter of each sub-plane=20 becomes the energy of the sub-plane immediately below; more=20 accurately, the original energy, plus the matter of the higher=20 sub-planes, becomes the ensouling energy of the next lower=20 sub-plane. Thus the seventh or lowest sub-plane consists of the=20 original energy six times enclosed or veiled, and therefore by so=20 much, weaker and less active.=20 A man who enters the mental world in full consciousness will=20 experience intense bliss, indescribable vitality, enormously=20 increased power, and the perfect confidence which flows from these.=20 He finds himself in the midst of what seems to him a whole universe=20 of ever-changing light, colour and sound. He will be apparently=20 floating in a sea of living light, surrounded by every conceivable=20 variety of loveliness in colour and form, and everything changing=20 with every wave of thought that he sends out from his mind. He will=20 also discover that the changes are created by him, by his thoughts=20 that are readily expressed in the matter of the plane and its=20 elemental essence.=20 Concrete thoughts, as we saw previously, take the shapes of their=20 objects, while abstract ideas usually represent themselves by all=20 kinds of perfect and most beautiful geometrical forms. In this=20 connection it should be remembered that many thoughts, which to us=20 on the physical plane are little more than mere abstractions, are on=20 the mental plane concrete facts.=20 The sacred geometry of yantras used by Hindus in their pujas are=20 abstractions of the power of the mantras relating to the deities=20 represented.=20 The scenery and inhabitants of the mental world are described in the=20 second part of this article.=20 Sources: 1. The Mental Body by Arthur E. Powell 2. The Ancient Wisdom by Annie Besant=20 3. Theosophy Explained in Questions and Answers by P.Pavri=20 Regards, saidevo =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D From samblo@cs.com Wed Jan 04 08:54:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: Samblo@cs.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14800 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2006 16:54:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2006 16:54:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m27.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.8) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2006 16:54:22 -0000 Received: from Samblo@cs.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.8d.35452306 (18251) for ; Wed, 4 Jan 2006 11:53:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8d.35452306.30ed5788@cs.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 11:53:28 EST To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 6.0 sub 10512 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.8 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: samblo@cs.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Spiritual Inquiries: 8. The Mental World - Part 1 of 2 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=27151446 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit saidevo, Thanks as always, I enjoyed your articulate instructive post and look forward to part 2. Also thanks for mentioning to the Forum members the Tamil Saint Tirumular, his classic work "Tirumantiram" has 3047 slokas and can be gotten at your local Vedanta Society Bookstore ISBN# 81-7120-383-3, it has focus of Saiva Siddhanta and many might find most interesting the contents on the nadi's. John [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Wed Jan 04 11:51:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57677 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2006 19:51:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2006 19:51:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.43) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2006 19:51:02 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n9.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2006 19:50:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by mailer3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2006 19:50:27 -0000 Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 19:50:25 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.43 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: Online Writings of H.P. Blavatsky & the Mahatmas: A Comprehensive Listing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=lEobZWiWgZyhT7OFwWVKRWii6A4pSeRMObKAhRBX7qM8yzOs1ae--4Pl X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Online Writings of H.P. Blavatsky & the Mahatmas:=20 A Comprehensive Listing Arranged in Chronological Order=20 See: http://blavatskywritings.net/ For help in understanding various terms used in H.P.B.'s=20 writings, consult the various glossaries at "Theosophical=20 Search & Find". See: http://blavatskyarchives.com/sourcesontheinternet.htm Daniel Blavatsky Study Center http://blavatskyarchives.com =20 From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Wed Jan 04 12:02:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4885 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2006 20:02:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2006 20:02:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.221) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2006 20:02:21 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2006 20:02:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by mailer1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2006 20:02:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by mailer3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2006 20:01:59 -0000 Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 20:01:59 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 216.155.203.221 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: Selections from H.P. Blavatsky's "Isis Unveiled" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=r3VyqzNowHIAyBwCJ4GYR4Izy3n5hXvFSt0zHrMPO5IUOazl7X5OHsTp X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Selections from H.P. Blavatsky's "Isis Unveiled" See: http://blavatskyarchives.com/isisunveiledselections.htm Daniel Blavatsky Study Center http://blavatskyarchives.com From lalaya7@yahoo.com.br Wed Jan 04 14:42:20 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lalaya7@yahoo.com.br X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31662 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2006 22:42:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jan 2006 22:42:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.38) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2006 22:42:17 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2006 22:41:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by mailer5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jan 2006 22:41:06 -0000 Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 22:41:05 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <004701c61135$ca0b87d0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.38 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 200.96.249.54 From: "Alaya" Subject: Re: REMEMBERING THE EXPERIENCES OF THE EGO X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=160996087; y=e9N_42ElP_kCzp34hTBEFnGpiQ3MB_cwTUoEX_GMJpj30w X-Yahoo-Profile: lalaya7 I have no intention of being stubborn... but I really think this is a great problem to deal. Many people all around the world have vivid memories about their 'previous lives' (and they are not all spiritualists/ followers of kardec) For decades stories have been recorded, children have demonstrated knowlege of names and facts they could not possibly know... and they report to some decades before their birth, sometimes a century... but never 500 years.. a thousand years ago... and in many cases the truth of the statements of these childrend could be found.=20 So we are dealing with some kind of impasse. I myself have never been a spiritist and I have had vivid memories of at least two of my past lives. I didn't have a 'regression' made by a therapist.. I just had dreams, and visions, and intuitions as I grew up. How can someone explain a 6 year-old child pointing at a picture of someone in the 19 century and thelling tho her father 'her name is [...] and he was from [...]' and then turn and go back playing... - for example this is nothing special.. I have the greatest respect for HPB and for me her theachings and the masters' are of great worth. but sometinh must be wrong when a written teaching is contrary to one's pracital experience. I know "i" didnt die in an abrupt way, too early, in an accident... "I" died of ageing.. old, sleeping in my bed.. and it took 47 years to return.. I also know that he 14 dalai lama was recognized as the same 'manas' (if i may say so) that the one of the 13 dalai lama... and it was also just a matter of years. and many other similar cases are related. I'm aware that the spiritualist's way of thinking about reincarnaiton is not quite corret.. because they believe in an 'same being', like if the same person went on from life to life... budhism is much more elaborated when it talks about the 'skhandas' and how the 'samskaras' (which carries our karma, and so, our 'impermanent personality') go to a next 'new born' which is the same 'flow of energy' that has being trying to be free of ignorance since the beginingless begining.=20 And the 'next person' maybe will not bring forth the 'qualities' of the 'previous one'; but may recollet some 'skhandas' of "himself" 400 years ago... the ones which are necessary to be dealt in the present moment. That is what i understand when HPB talks "it's not natural".. because 'natural' should be free from ignorance, which keep us captive... Well i'm not willing to create a confusion... I just thought about sharing a personal experience, since this matter is so complicated. --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "W.Dallas TenBroeck" wrote: > > REMEMBERING THE EXPERIENCES=20 >=20 > OF THE EGO >=20 >=20 > TO many it seems puzzling that we do not remember the experiences of the > Higher Self in sleep. But as long as we ask "Why does not the lower self > remember these experiences," we shall never have an answer. There is a > contradiction in the question, because the lower self, never having had the > experiences it is required to remember, could not at any time recollect > them. >=20 > When sleep comes on, the engine and instrument of the lower personality is > stopped, and can do nothing but what may be called automatic acts. The brain > is not in use, and hence no consciousness exists for it until the waking > moment returns. The ego, when thus released from the physical chains, from > its hard daily task of living with and working through the bodily organs, > proceeds to enjoy the experiences of the plane of existence which is > peculiarly its own.=20 >=20 > On that plane it uses a method and processes of thought, and perceives the > ideas appropriate to it through organs different from those of the body. All > that it sees and hears (if we may use those terms) appears reversed from our > plane. The language, so to say, is a foreign one even to the inner language > used when awake.=20 >=20 > So, upon reassuming life in the body, all that it has to tell its lower > companion must be spoken in a strange tongue, and for the body that is an > obstruction to comprehension. We hear the words, but only now and then > obtain flashes of their meaning. It is something like the English-speaking > person who knows a few foreign words entering a foreign town and there being > only able to grasp those few terms as he hears them among the multitude of > other words and sentences which he does not understand.=20 >=20 > What we have to do, then, is to learn the language of the Ego, so that we > shall not fail to make a proper translation to ourselves. For at all times > the language of the plane through which the Ego nightly floats is a foreign > one to the brain we use, and has to be always translated for use by the > brain. If the interpretation is incorrect, the experience of the Ego will > never be made complete to the lower man.=20 >=20 > But it may be asked if there is an actual language for the Ego, having its > sound and corresponding signs. Evidently not; for, if there were, there > would have been made a record of it during all those countless years that > sincere students have been studying themselves. It is not a language in the > ordinary sense. It is more nearly described as a communication of ideas and > experience by means of pictures.=20 >=20 > So with it a sound may be pictured as a color or a figure, and an odor as a > vibrating line; an historical event may be not only shown as a picture, but > also as a light or a shadow, or as a sickening smell or delightful incense; > the vast mineral world may not only exhibit its planes and angles and > colors, but also its vibrations and lights.=20 >=20 > Or, again, the ego may have reduced its perceptions of size and distance for > its own purposes, and, having the mental capacity for the time of the ant, > it may report to the bodily organs a small hole as an abyss, or the grass of > the field as a gigantic forest. These are adduced by way of example, and are > not to be taken as hard and fast lines of description. >=20 > Upon awakening, a great hindrance is found in our own daily life and terms > of speech and thought to the right translation of these experiences, and the > only way in which we can use them with full benefit is by making ourselves > porous, so to speak, to the influences from the higher self, and by living > and thinking in such a manner as will be most likely to bring about the aim > of the soul. >=20 > This leads us unerringly to virtue and knowledge, for the vices and the > passions eternally becloud our perception of the meaning of what the Ego > tries to tell us. It is for this reason that the sages inculcate virtue. Is > it not plain that, if the vicious could accomplish the translation of the > Ego's language, they would have done it long ago, and is it not known to us > all that only among the virtuous can the Sages be found? >=20 > Eusebio Urban Path, June, 1890 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------- >=20 > Best wishes, >=20 > Dallas > From gregory@zeta.org.au Wed Jan 04 19:07:33 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: gregory@zeta.org.au X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62913 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2006 03:07:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2006 03:07:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailout2.pacific.net.au) (61.8.0.115) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2006 03:07:32 -0000 Received: from mailproxy2.pacific.net.au (mailproxy2.pacific.net.au [61.8.0.87]) by mailout2.pacific.net.au (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id k0537Udm001459 for ; Thu, 5 Jan 2006 14:07:30 +1100 Received: from mailproxy2.pacific.net.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailproxy2.pacific.net.au (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id k0537TUd018280 for ; Thu, 5 Jan 2006 14:07:29 +1100 Received: (from www-data@localhost) by mailproxy2.pacific.net.au (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id k0537TTo018277 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 5 Jan 2006 14:07:29 +1100 X-Authentication-Warning: mailproxy2.pacific.net.au: www-data set sender to gregory@zeta.org.au using -f Received: from ppp31BC.dsl.pacific.net.au (ppp31BC.dsl.pacific.net.au [202.7.67.188]) by wm2.pacific.net.au (Horde MIME library) with HTTP for ; Thu, 05 Jan 2006 14:07:29 +1100 Message-ID: <20060105140729.sonxl29pd88wg0o4@wm2.pacific.net.au> Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 14:07:29 +1100 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-Originating-IP: 61.8.0.115 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: gregory@zeta.org.au Subject: The Lord's Prayer X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=796991 I was intrigued by the bizarre =93translation=94 of the (allegedly) Aramaic= Lord=92s Prayer recently posted: a quick Google search =93throws up=94 (a most appro= priately phrase in this case) this =93version=94 on numerous New Age sites without, = of course, any reference to a scholarly source. I suspect its origins may lie = in the frauds of Edmond Bordeaux Szekely. Presumably operating on the Lewis Carroll principle that =93What I tell you three times is true=94 [The Hunt= ing of the Snark] if this version is cited often enough it acquires authority. Allowing that some Theosophists may be happy to work on another Carroll principle - "Alice laughed: "There's no use trying," she said; "one can't believe impossible things." "I daresay you haven't had much practice," said= the Queen. "When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." [Alice in Wonderland] =96 it may be difficult to allow the facts to get in = the way of a good story. However, all standard scholarly translations from the Aramaic agree on the translation of the Lord=92s Prayer. To take but two of them: Dr. F. C. Burkitt's translation, of the Old Syriac Aramaic version of the G= ospel of Matthew according to two ancient manuscripts, the Curetonian, and the Sinaiticus (4th century CE) as published in 1904 by Cambridge University Pr= ess: 9 But thus be praying: Our Father in heaven, thy name be hallowed. 10 Thy kingdom come. And thy wishes be done in earth as in heaven. 11 And our continual bread of the day give us. 12 And forgive us our debts, so that we also may forgive our debtors. 13 And bring us not into temptation, But deliver us from the Evil One. Beca= use thine is the kingdom and the glory, For ever and ever, Amen. Dr. George Lamsa's Peshitta New Testament English translation, =93The Delux= e Study Edition of the Modern New Testament from the Aramaic=94: 9 Therefore pray in this manner: Our Father in heaven, hallowed be thy name= . 10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven so on earth. 11 Give us bread for our needs from day to day. 12 And forgive us our offences, as we have forgiven our offenders; 13 And do not let us enter into temptation, but deliver us from error. Because thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory for ever and ever. Amen. Not quite as excitingly exotic, alas. Dr Gregory Tillett From dalval14@earthlink.net Thu Jan 05 04:21:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59885 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2006 12:21:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2006 12:21:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.69) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2006 12:21:25 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EuU3d-0003HM-Sc; Thu, 05 Jan 2006 07:17:30 -0500 To: Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 04:17:12 -0800 Message-ID: <001601c611f1$f992dd20$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79bd2c204abb6de3e77d4e727dc602e02e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.69 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: [bn-study] Re: Lord's Prayer X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=yPmdFNNcgv6nnrEiZXNFvA_csmUibQkTE-sMe7OQXb7K-g X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1/5/2006 4:01 AM Dear Friends: "With us OM has a signification. It represents the constant undercurrent of meditation, which ought to be carried on by every man, even while engaged in the necessary duties of this life. There is for every conditioned being a target at which the aim is constantly directed. Even the very animal kingdom we do not except, for it, below us, awaits its evolution into a higher state; it unconsciously perhaps, but nevertheless actually, aims at the same target. "Having taken the bow, the great weapon, let him place on it the arrow, sharpened by devotion. Then, having drawn it with a thought directed to that which is, hit the mark, O friend - the Indestructible. OM is the bow, the Self is the arrow, Brahman is called its aim. It is to be hit by a man who is not thoughtless; and then as the arrow becomes one with the target, he will become one with Brahman. Know him alone as the Self, and leave off other words. He is the bridge of the Immortal. Meditate on the Self as O M . Hail to you that you may cross beyond the sea of darkness." - Mundaka Upanishad. (THE PATH, vol. I, p. 4) Now we may consider that there is pervading the whole universe a single homogeneous resonance, sound, or tone, which acts, so to speak, as the awakener or vivifying power, stirring all the molecules into action. This is what is represented in all languages by the vowel a , which takes precedence of all others. This is the word, the verbum, the Logos of St. John of the Christians, who says: "In the beginning was the Word, and Word was with God, and the word was God." This is creation, for without this resonance or motion among the quiescent particles, there would be no visible universe. That is to say, upon sound, or as the Aryans called it, Nada Brahma (divine resonance), depends the evolution of the visible from the invisible. But this sound a , being produced, at once alters itself into au, so that the second sound u, is that one made by the first in continuing its existence. The vowel u, which in itself is a compound one, therefore represents preservation. And the idea of preservation is contained also in creation, or evolution, for there could not be anything to preserve, unless it had first come into existence. If these two sounds, so compounded into one, were to proceed indefinitely, there would be of course no destruction of them. But it is not possible to continue the utterance further than the breath, and whether the lips are compressed, or the tongue pressed against the roof of the mouth, or the organs behind that used, there will be in the finishing of the utterance the closure or m sound, which among the Aryans had the meaning of stoppage. In this last letter there is found the destruction of the whole word or letter. To reproduce it a slight experiment will show that by no possibility can it be begun with m , but that au invariably commences even the utterance of m itself. Without fear of successful contradiction, it can be asserted that all speech begins with au, and the ending, or destruction of speech, is in m . The word "tone" is derived from the Latin and Greek words meaning sound and tone. In the Greek word "tonos" means a stretching or straining. As to the character of the sound, the word "tone" is used to express all varieties, such as high, low, grave, acute, sweet and harsh sounds. In music it gives the peculiar quality of the sound produced, and also distinguishes one instrument from another; as rich tone, reedy tone, and so on. In medicine, it designates the state of the body, but is there used more in the signification of strength, and refers to strength or tension. It is not difficult to connect the use of the word in medicine with the divine resonance of which we spoke, because we may consider tension to be the vibration, or quantity of vibration, by which sound is apprehended by the ear, and if the whole system goes down so that its tone is lowered without stoppage, the result will at last be dissolution for that collection of molecules. In painting, the tone also shows the general drift of the picture, just as it indicates the same thing in morals and manners. We say, "a low tone of morals, an elevated tone of sentiment, a courtly tone of manners," so that tone has a signification which is applied universally to either good or bad, high or low. And the only letter which we can use to express it, or symbolize it, is the a sound, in its various changes, long, short and medium. And just as the tone of manners, of morals, of painting, of music, means the real character of each, in the same way the tones of the various creatures, including man himself, mean or express the real character; and all together joined in the deep murmur of nature, go to swell the Nada Brahma, or Divine resonance, which at last is heard in the music of the spheres. Meditation on tone, as expressed in this Sanskrit word OM , will lead us to a knowledge of the secret Doctrine. We find expressed in the merely mortal music the seven divisions of the divine essence, for as the microcosm is the little copy of the macrocosm, even the halting measures of man contain the little copy of the whole, in the seven tones of the octave. >From that we are led to the seven colors, and so forward and upward to the Divine radiance which is the Aum. For the Divine Resonance, spoken of above, is not the Divine Light itself. The Resonance is only the out-breathing of the first sound of the entire Aum. This goes on during what the Hindus call a Day of Brahma, which, according to them, lasts a thousand ages. It manifests itself not only as the power which stirs up and animates the particles of the Universe, but also in the evolution and dissolution of man, of animal and mineral kingdom, and of solar systems. Among the Aryans it was represented in the planetary system by Mercury, who has always been said to govern the intellectual faculties, and to be the universal stimulator. Some old writers have said that it is shown through Mercury, amongst mankind, by the universal talking of women. And wherever this divine resonance is closed or stopped by death or other change, the Aum has been uttered there. These utterances of Aum are only the numerous microcosmic enunciations of the Word, which is uttered or completely ended, to use the Hermetic or mystical style of language, only when the great Brahm stops the outbreathing, closes the vocalization, by the m sound, and thus causes the universal dissolution. This universal dissolution is known in the Sanskrit and in the secret Doctrine, as the Maha Pralaya; Maha being "the great," and Pralaya "dissolution." And so, after thus arguing, the ancient Rishees of India said: "Nothing is begun or ended; everything is changed, and that which we call death is only a transformation." In thus speaking they wished to be understood as referring to the manifested universe, the so-called death of a sentient creature being only a transformation of energy, or a change of the mode and place of manifestation of the Divine Resonance. Thus early in the history of the race the doctrine of the conservation of energy was known and applied. The Divine Resonance, or the au sound, is the universal energy, which is conserved during each Day of Brahma, and at the coming on of the great Night is absorbed again into the great whole. Continually appearing and disappearing it transforms itself again and again, covered from time to time by a veil of matter called its visible manifestation, and never lost, but always changing itself from one form to another. And herein can be seen the use and beauty of the Sanskrit. Nada Brahma is Divine Resonance; that is, after saying Nada, if we stopped with Brahm, logically we must infer that the m sound at the end of Brahm signified the Pralaya, thus confuting the position that the Divine Resonance existed, for if it had stopped it could not be resounding. So they added an a at the end of the Brahm, making it possible to understand that as Brahma the sound was still manifesting itself." ---------------------------------------------------- This is a collation from various Theosophical texts. Best wishes, Dallas ====================== -----Original Message----- From: Pundit Sunil Dev Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 4:55 PM To: Subject: Lord's Prayer A particular Prayer [Gayatri] in Sanskrit goes this way: Om! Bhur Bhuva Svah, Tat Savitur Vareniyam. Bhargo Devasya Dhi-mahi, Dhi-vyo Vyo naha Pracho-Dayat. Rig-Veda Which means: Oh God! the giver of life, remover of pains and sorrows, bestower of happiness, and the creator of the Universe. Thou art most luminous, pure and adorable. We meditate upon thee. May you inspire and guide our intellect in the right direction. Namaste. Pundit Sunil Dev [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Thu Jan 05 05:19:31 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 63195 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2006 13:19:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2006 13:19:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.69) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2006 13:19:31 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EuUyU-0005r2-Eb; Thu, 05 Jan 2006 08:16:15 -0500 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 05:15:58 -0800 Message-ID: <002501c611fa$2f370930$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79935faea3ba4b3fe932f34c563df166eb350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.69 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: DO WE REMEMBER .DOC X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=oNOa05gZ63Bm_THDojf-_SLrIsyk83lRNKUgR_RH66Um5A X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 DO WE REMEMBER .DOC =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =09=09=09 DO WE REMEMBER? Mozart composed minuets before he was four years old. Beethoven gave successful concerts before he was eight, and published com positions when h= e was ten. Chopin played in public before he was nine. Mendelssohn was alread= y famous at twelve, while Brahms ex cited attention from babyhood. Richard Strauss was a successful composer at six, while Samuel Wesley was an organist at three and composed an oratorio at eight. *=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 *=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 *=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 * Ruth Slenczynski=97a child of eight years=97 was acclaimed in New York City= in 1933 for her piano recital of Bach, Beethoven, Mendelssohn, and Chopin. She came simple and smiling upon the stage, but when she sat down to play, her appearance was that of a mature woman in a child=92s body. One was forced t= o realize that only the Soul present could so command the nature and body. *=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 *=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 *=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 * =93Blind Tom=94 was a negro born in slavery on a Georgia plantation in 1849= . Not only was he born blind but he was so nearly a congenital idiot that it was almost impossible to teach him to talk or to perform the simplest tasks. By the time he was ten years old he had been drilled into =93tending door= =94 =97his sole accomplishment. In those days the kitchen was in a separate cab= in immediately back of the mansion-house dining room. Slaves would run back an= d forth between kitchen and dining room at meal time and it was Blind Tom=92s task to open the swinging door for them. One day a young lady guest played some highly technical numbers just before lunch. After lunch eon the compan= y scattered for various amusements. It happened that the young lady re turned to the deserted dining room for some forgotten article and was astonished t= o hear the piano resounding with the music she had played an hour or two before. Peeping into the music room she beheld Blind Tom, oblivious to all but the magic sounds his flying fingers were conjuring from the instrument. Within a year Mr. Bethune, Tom=92s =93owner,=94 was exhibiting him to large audiences in New York City =97 to his own profit and to the world=92s incredulous admiration. * * * * Christian Heinrich Heinecken was born in Denmark in 1721. At ten months of age he could converse as freely and intelligently as an adult. By the time he was a year old he knew the Pentateuch practically by heart=97knew it not only in a memorial sense, but understood it as well as his elders who read and told the Old Testament stories to him. By the end of his second year he was as well versed in sacred history as those who taught him, had decided opinions on the many moot theological questions of the time, and could hold his own in discussion with the numerous learned divinity men who sought him out for the sake of what they could learn from him. At three years of age h= e was as much of a marvel in geography and in world history as the greatest travelers and university professors. He was by this time proficient in German as well as Danish, and could talk well in French and Latin. His parents=92 home became a kind of place of pilgrimage to which men and women= of standing and repute from many distant places came with reverence and respec= t to meet and consult with this phenomenal babe. The child died at a little over four years of age. * * * * Horace Greeley, the famous American newspaper editor, was the third child o= f parents who wrestled for a meager existence on a stony hillside Vermont farm. Horace was weak, sickly, and from the first uninterested in the thing= s that attract and amuse babies. That he learned to read before he could talk in other than =93baby language=94 is told by more than one biographer. His = own mother related that she observed before he was two years old how he seemed fascinated to see his father reading from a paper. Overburdened with family duties, it occurred to her to give him an old newspaper to play with while she was absent from the room. Coming into the house one day she started toward the door of the room in which she had left Horace. Astonished to hea= r a voice speaking as an adult might, and thinking some visitor must have entered during her absence, she paused by the door and looked in. Horace wa= s reading aloud from the sheet before him! No one had ever taught him even hi= s A B C=92s. * * * * William Henry West Betty was born in England in 1791. He appeared on the stage at the age of eleven in adult parts, and at twelve he was playing Shakesperian roles in London to overcrowded houses. It is of record that th= e English Parliament actually adjourned on one occasion so that its members might attend a performance in which this precocious youngster played the role of Hamlet. * * * * Elmer J. Schoneberger, Jr., born at Los Angeles in 1929, at six months o= f age could con verse plainly; at a year old he had learned the alphabet; at three, he was able to talk with ease and understanding on such subjects as =93electricity, engineering, economics, history, aviation and sports.=94 * * * * A GREEK LESSON [Prologue to "Gorgo"]. I stopped short; I flung down the book. =93It is a lie,=94 I cried bitterly= , =93a cruel, hateful lie,=94 I almost shouted, =97 and the whole class stared at me in amazement. A strange outburst was that for the dingy, drowsy Greek-room of the little New England college. I was as much surprised as any; I stood confuse= d at myself. For then it was that I remembered. The passage which I was translating seemed innocent enough=97to all the rest. We were reading at sight =97 the professor=92s particular hobby; and = he was exploiting upon us the Twelfth Oration of Lysias. But I had been paying scant attention to what they were reading. Greek was easy to me always, and the halting drone with which they turned the sweet Attic into their class-room jargon wearied my ears. And my thoughts had drifted far away into I know not what regions of day-dreams, under a bright sky buttressed on purple hills, when I heard the incisive voice of the professor: =93Leonard, you may read now, beginning with the seventy-eighth section.= =94 It cut through the mists of cloud land like the flash of a searchlight. I started to my feet, found the place and began: =93=91And although he has been the author of all these and still other disasters and disgraces, both old and new, both small and great, some dare to profess themselves his friends; al though it was not for the people that Theramenes died, but because of his own villainy=97=92Then I choked and sto= pped. Tears swam in my eyes, and a hot flash scalded my cheeks. For in that instant first I understood; and in that instant it seemed to me that they all understood. But the professor, rather mortified at my unwonted hesitation, began to prompt: =93Go on, Leonard, =97 go on, it is not so hard=97 =91and no less justly= would he have died under the democracy, which he twice enslaved=92 =97 why, Leonard!= =94. =93It is a lie,=94 I burst forth. =93A cruel, hateful lie.=94 Those word= s which he uttered so calmly had stung me like the lashes of a scourge, =97 so malignant, so artful, so utterly unjust. And the whole world had read them=97this had been believed for centuries, with none to contradict! =93To say it when a man was dead !=93 I went on. =93And Lysias! for Lysi= as to say it!=94 I had quite forgotten the class; I saw only the foppish, waspish little orator, declaiming before the people with studied passion and hot indignation well memorized. But the people had never accepted it They knew me better. . . =93They would not listen to such as Lysias; they would make an uproar an= d rise from the benches. How dared that alien accuse the best blood of Athens!=94 Yet I could scarcely have told you why I said it. My classmates were too much astonished to laugh. The professor laid down his book; mine I flung on the floor. My blood was boiling; my soul a tumult= . =93What does this mean, Leonard?=94 I heard the voice; I could not clearly = see the speaker. =93I will not read it=97I will not read another line,=94 I cried. . For the past had opened like a darkness lightning-cleft; all in one moment = I felt the injustices of ages; the shame of an aeon of scorn=97and they asked= me to read against my self the lying record. I would die again sooner than rea= d it. I could not realize that they did not comprehend. It was not often that Professor Lalor was at a loss for words, but there wa= s a long pause before he spoke. =93Young man,=94 he said slowly, =93I always like my student s to manifest = a living interest in what they read, and this trait I have especially commended in you heretofore. But there is measure, Leonard, in all things, as the Greeks themselves have taught us; and this exceeds=97 this certainly exceeds. One would fancy you contemporary authority.=94 . . Again I had choked, but anger gave me back my speech. =93Lysias an authority!=94 I exclaimed. =93Lysias ! =93 My sight had cleared. The class sat quiet, startled out of their laughter; the professor looked pained and puzzled. =93There is a degree of truth in what you seem to imply,=94 he said. =93= It may be conceded that Lysias was somewhat lacking in the judicial quality. And a= s to Theramenes, Aristotle has expressed a very different estimate of him. Ye= t Lysias=97=94 =93He was no better than a sycophant,=94 I broke in. =93Go to your room, Leonard. You forget yourself.=94 But the truth was, = I had remembered myself. After that they nicknamed me Theramenes: I was nicknamed after myself, and none suspected. =09 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D My sister was born and married abroad. On arrival in England she and her husband set off to visit at an old manor house in Wiltshire. On entering the lodge gates, my sister turned to her husband and said, =93Why, this is my old home,=94 and to his surprise, she pointed out landma= rks on the way. The experience was related at dinner, and the host, somewhat incredulous= , playfully said, =93Perhaps you will discover the Priest=92s Hole !=94 It wa= s mentioned in the history of the place that one existed in Tudor times, but it had never been discovered. After dinner the guests adjourned to the gallery to see some old pictures, and it was noticed my sister was missing. They found her in a roo= m nearby, counting the panels on the wall, and looking somewhat dreamy. Suddenly she exclaimed, =93This is the one,=94 and asked her husband to pre= ss a leaf in the carving very hard as she could not manage it. He did so, the panel moved stiffly, and a tiny room was revealed, dusty with age, and empty save for a broken piece of pottery and a pallet, which had evidently been used for a bed. * * * * The first year of little Jackie=92s life we called him our little Chinam= an, because his features=97particularly his eyes=97were Chinese. After his firs= t year, he began to lose that Oriental look. But he was always different from the other children=97silent, he preferred to play alone, and would play for hours with one object. As he grew older, it was noticed that Jackie was the one who did things. If he started a thing, he always finished it. Often we would hear the other= s say, =93Jackie can fix it!=94 And always Jackie fixed it. It was when he was five years old that I made the boys each a pair of navy blue pants. Immediately, Jim tried his on. When I asked Jackie if he wanted to put his on, he said, No=97 he would put them in his drawer until = I got his shirt made. =93But Jackie,=94 I said, =93I just made you some shirt= s.=94 =93I know,=94 he answered, =93but they are not the right kind.=94 =93What is the right kind?=94 =93The right kind is long, like this,=94 he said, and he measured with his little hand down to his knees. =93But boys don=92t wear shirts like that!=94 =93I know. But they don=92t wear the right kind of shirts. I want you to ma= ke mine black with lots of pretty colors on it.=94 =93Daddy,=94 said I, =93doesn=92t wear that kind of shirt.=94 =93No, Daddy doesn=92t wear the right kind of shirt, nor Ned Lane, eithe= r.=94 (Ned Lane is a friend of his father.) I asked Jackie if he would wear this long black shirt with the pretty colors to school, and he said yes, he would; because it was the right kind of shirt! And then we say, we don=92t =93remember.=94 * * * * When children come to visit me, they love to dress up in my clothes, and =93play lady.=94 One day, Betty May had spent an unusually long time in my = room, and finally came out in a long dress, with a scarf wound round her head. She said, =93Look, Grannie! This is the way we dressed when we were Indians.=94 =93Oh, were you an Indian?=94 I queried innocently. She looked at me with surprise in her eyes, and said, =93Of course. And you too, Grannie. Don=92t you remember? What is the name of that country where = we lived when we were Indians?=94 I asked if it were India, maybe, but she said, no, that wasn=92t the right name. Then I asked, =93Were the babies Indians, too?=94 Quickly she answered, =93Oh, no. Not Jackie. Jackie was another kind of man= . Jackie looked like this=94 =97 and she drew herself up very straight and fo= lded her arms across her chest. =93How about Jim and Sue? Were they Indians ?=93 She looked very serious for a minute, and then said, =93I don=92t remember, Grannie.=94 Then someone came in, and we were never able to pick up the thread again= , until several weeks later when she told me,=20 =93Mother doesn=92t know all the things we know, Grannie.=94 =93Why doesn=92t she, dear?=94 I said. =93Because, she hasn=92t been to our country.=94 =93But how do you know, Betty May?=94 I asked. The only answer I could get was, =93You know, Grannie.=94 And then we say, we don=92t =93remember.=94 * * * * When Baby Carla was six weeks old, she saw her Uncle Hal for the first time. A twinkle came in her eyes, she smiled, and put out her tongue at him= ! Ever after, that was her sign of welcome to him, though sometimes she ex tended the greeting to others especially favored.=20 Between her and Uncle Hal there seemed to be always some inner secret bond of delight and companionship, so that just as soon as she began to say =93Mama=94 and =93Papa,=94 she also began to use a name for Uncle Hal. =93P= ak-kar,=94 she called him.=20 Her parents were mystified. What strange freak made that word, like nothing anyone had ever heard before?=20 There was no variation in it at any time. It was always clear and distinct=97unmistakable. Before the little one had reached the age of two, however, Uncle Hal died suddenly. Carla appeared to know nothing about it, except that several times in the next few weeks, and very contrary to her usual sunny awakening from sleep, she woke crying, as if her heart were broken. When her mother soothed her and asked her why she cried, she said, =93Pak-kar=92s gone !=93 She never again greeted anyone with little tongue= thrust out. Two years after this, while Carla=92s mother was reading one of Breasted= =92s histories, she came to a chapter in which was discussed the similar roots o= f words in old languages. Across the page sprang into her view this line, giving the ancient forms of our word, father: Greek Latin Teutonic Sanscrit Tibetan pater pater vater pitar pakkar. It was four years later when Carla=92s father brought home from the libr= ary a book of travel on Tibet, in which was illustrated the Tibetan greeting, first used by Carla at the age of six weeks! * * * * =20=20=20 Little Robert was the sunniest, happiest, most lovable little four-year-old boy anyone ever knew! Not only was he cherished by all those in his family, including aunts and uncles and cousins, but friends =97 even strangers =97 = found him =93different=94 from other little ones, and with a strange power to lig= hten their hearts. But, one day a terrible disease struck him swiftly, and he died. Little Robert=92s parents knew about reincarnation, and their sorrow was more bearable because they had also heard that when a child dies under the age of seven years, the same Ego might reincarnate again in the same family= . Two years later, a little brother was born to them, so closely resembling little Robert that they could not help giving the babe the same name. As he grew, old familiar ways were recognized, and the two babes seemed blended i= n this one. They began to speak of the first little Robert as =93the other on= e.=94 Meantime, some of the families of cousins had moved far away, and had never seen the second Robert. One day, when he was three years old, one of these girl cousins came to the house on a surprise-visit. She entered the room where the little fellow was playing on the floor with his blocks, and stood quietly for a moment. Robert looked up at her, smiled radiantly, flun= g out his arms and called, =93Ong !=94 This was the name the first Robert had given her=97a name which had never b= een used by anyone, save him! --------------------------------------------------------- The following undoubtedly true story was written by a commercial photographer of Minneapolis. She is the elder sister of little Anne, and up to the time of the incident, neither she nor any of the family believed in, or knew anything of, the doctrine of re-birth. The article appeared in the American Magazine of July, 1915. =93Anne, my little half-sister, younger by fifteen years, was a queer littl= e mite from the beginning. She did not even look like any member of the famil= y we ever heard of, for she was dark almost to swarthiness, while the rest of us were all fair, showing our Scotch Irish ancestry unmistakably. =93As soon as she could talk in connected sentences, she would tell hers= elf fairy stories, and just for the fun of the thing I would take down her murmurings with my pencil in my old diary. She was my especial charge =97 m= y mother being a very busy woman=97and I was very proud of her. These weavings of fancy were never of the usual type tha= t children=92s fairy tales take; for, in addition to the childish imagination= , there were bits of knowledge in them that a baby could not possibly have absorbed in any sort of way. =93Another remarkable thing about her was that everything she did she seemed to do through habit, and, in fact, such was her insistence, although she was never able to ex plain what she meant by it. If you could have seen the roystering air with which she would life her mug of milk when she was only three and gulp it down at one quaffing, you would have shaken with laughter. This particularly embarrassed my mother and she reproved Anne repeatedly. The baby was a good little soul, and would seem to try to obey, and then in an absent-minded moment would bring on another occasion for mortification. =91I can=92t help it, mother,=92 she would say over and over= again, tears in her baby voice, =91I=92ve always done it that way!=92 =93So many were the small incidents of her =91habits=92 of speech and th= ought and her tricks of manner and memory that finally we ceased to think anythin= g about them, and she herself was quite unconscious that she was in any way different from other children. =93One day when she was four years old she became very indignant with Fathe= r about some matter and, as she sat curled up on the floor in front of us, announced her intention of going away forever. =93=91Back to heaven where you came from?=92 inquired Father with mock seriousness. She shook her head. =93=91I didn=92t come from heaven to you,=92 she asserted with that calm conviction to which we were quite accustomed now. =91I went to the moon fir= st, but=97you know about the moon, don=92t you? It used to have people on it, b= ut it got so hard that we had to go.=92 =93This promised to be a fairy tale, so I got my pencil and diary. =93=91So,=92 my father led her on, =91you came from the moon to us, did you= ?=92 =93=91Oh, no,=92 she told him in casual fashion. =91I have been here lots o= f times=97sometimes I was a man and sometimes I was a woman!=92 =93She was so serene in her announcement that my father laughed heartily= , which enraged the child, for she particularly disliked being ridiculed in any way. =93=91I was! I was!=92 she maintained indignantly. =91Once I went to Can= ada when I was a man! I =91member my name, even.=92 =93=91Oh, pooh-pooh,=92 he scoffed, =91little United States girls can= =92t be men in Canada! What was your name that you =91member so well?=92 =93She considered a minute. =91It was Lishus Faber,=92 she ventured, the= n repeated it with greater assurance, =91that was it=97Lishus Faber.=92 She r= an the sounds together so that this was all I could make of it=97and the name so stands in my diary today; =91Lishus Faber.=92 =93=91And what did you do for a living, Lishus Faber, in those early days?= =92 My father then treated her with the mock solemnity befitting her assurance and quieting her nervous little body. =91I was a soldier=92=97she granted the information triumphantly=97=92and I= took the gates!=92 =93That was all that is recorded there. Over and over again, I remember,= we tried to get her to explain what she meant by the odd phrase, but she only repeated her words and grew indignant with us for not understanding. Her imagination stopped at explanations. We were living in a cultured community= , but al though I repeated the story to inquire about the phrase=97as one doe= s tell stories of beloved children, you know=97no one could do more than conjecture its meaning. =93Some one encouraged my really going further with the matter, and for a y= ear I studied all the histories of Canada I could lay my hands on for a battle in which somebody =91took the gates.=92 All to no purpose. Finally I was directed by a librarian to a =91documentary=92 history, I suppose it is=97a= funny old volume with the =91s=92 like f=92 s, you know. This was over a year aft= erward, when I had quite lost hope of running my phrase to earth. It was a quaint old book, interestingly picturesque in many of its tales, but I found one bit that put all others out of my mind. It was a brief account of the takin= g of a little walled city by a small company of soldiers, a distinguished fea= t of some sort, yet of no general importance. A young lieutenant with his small band=97the phrase leaped to my eyes=97=92took the gates.=92 And the n= ame of the young lieutenant was =91Aloysius Le F=EAbre.=92=94 --------------------------------------------------- It is told of one American gentleman, on his first visit to London, that while waiting in a lawyer=92s office to keep an appointment, he began to ha= ve a sense of familiarity of the room steal over him. The feeling grew very strong, till finally he said to himself: =93Well, if I ever have been here before, there is a certain knot-hole in the panel of that door over there=97and if so, it is under that calendar hanging there!=94 He walked o= ver to the door and lifted the calendar. The knot-hole was there, as he knew it would be. -------------------------------------------------------- THE TURN OF THE WHEEL He was the son of a ruler in Rajpootana. His father governed a district, including several villages as well as his own small town, with justice and wisdom, so that all were prosperous and happy. The ruler was called a Rajah= ; he lived in a building made of stone, built on a hill that commanded the town. The son was born after the Rajah had been for many years childless, and was the only child to whom the father=92s honors and power could descen= d. He was named Rama after the great Avatar. From the time he was born and until he could speak, a strange look was always to be seen in his baby eyes= ; a look that gazed at you without flinching, as if he had some design on you= ; and yet at times it seemed to show that he was laughing at himself, sorry, too; melancholy at times. Rama grew up and delighted his father with his goodness and strength of mind. The strange glance of his eye as a baby remained with him, so that while every one loved him, they all felt also a singular respect that was sometimes awe. His studies were completed, and he began to take part in the administration of the affairs of the old and now feeble rajah. Rama felt a great need of being alone. Every day he retired to his room, unattended, and on the fourteenth of each month spent the entire day alone. He felt a weight upon his heart which did not come from this life. He had had no sorrow, had lost no bright possession; his ambitions were all fulfilled. He longed to know what was before him yet to learn. This was why he spent his time in self- searching and meditation. So, he came to find that his higher self spoke one language, and the personal self another. He came to see that the personal self weighted him down with the chains of ignorance, and that his must be a search, not for possessions, but for knowledge, no matter where the search should take him. Then, one day, a vision passed before him of the poverty and the riches that might be his, o= f huts and buildings of stone, as he went on his way to enlightenment. But after this, he was no longer troubled, no longer sorrowful; his mind was at peace. His old father died, and he carried on the government for many years, scattering blessings in every direction, until a rival rajah came and demanded all his possessions, showing a claim to them through a forgotten branch of the family. Instead of rejecting the claim, which was just, instead of slaying the rival as he could have done, Rama resigned all, retired to the forest, and died, after a few years of austerity. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 *=A0=A0=A0=A0 *=A0=A0=A0=A0 *=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 * The wheel of time rolled on and Rama was reborn in a town governed by the Rajah who had once in a former life demanded Rama=92s possessions. But now Rama was poor, un known, an outcaste, a chandalah who swept up garbage and hoped that Karma might help him. He knew not that he was Rama; he only swep= t the garbage near the Rajah=92s palace. A solemn audience was held by the Rajah with all the priests and the soothsayers present. Troubled by a dream of the night before, the superstitious ruler called them in to interpret, to state causes learnedly, to prescribe scriptural palliative measures. He had dreamed that while walking in his garden, hearing from his treasurer an account of his increasing wealth, a huge stone building seemed suddenly to grow up before him. As he stopped amazed, it toppled over and seemed to bury him and his wealth. Three times repeated, this filled him with fear. The astrologers retired and consulted their books. The remedy was plain, on= e suggested. =93Let the King give up a vast sum of money to morrow to the fir= st person he sees after waking up.=94 This decision was accepted, and the pro poser of it intended to be on hand early so as to claim the money. The Rajah agreed to the direction of the stars, and retired for the night, full of his resolution to give immense gifts next day. No horrid dreams disturbed his sleep. The winking stars moved over the vault of heaven, and of all the hosts the moon seemed to smile upon the cit= y as if she heard and knew all.=20 The cold early morning, dark with promise of dawn, saw the chandalah, =97 o= nce Rama=97 sweeping up the garbage near the palace where inside the Rajah was just awaking. The last star in heaven seemed to halt as if anxious that Ram= a should come in his sweeping to the side of the palace from which the Rajah= =92s window opened. Slowly the Rajah=92s waking senses returned, and as they cam= e a hideous memory of his dream flashed on him. Starting up from the mat on which he lay, he rose and seemed to think. =93What was I to do? Yes, give gifts. But it is not yet day. Still the orac= le said =91immediately on awakening=92.=94 As he hesitated, the poor garbage sweeper outside came more nearly in front of his window. The setting star almost seemed to throw a beam through the wall that struck and pushed him to the window. Flinging open the shutter to get breath, he looked down, and there before him was the poor chandalah wit= h waistcloth and no turban, sweating with exertion,-hastening on with the tas= k that when finished would leave the great Rajah=92s grounds clean and ready = for their lord. =93Thank the gods,=94 said the Rajah, =93it is fate; a just decision; to th= e poor and the pious should gifts be given.=94 At an early hour he gathered his ministers and priests together and said=97= =93I give gifts to the devas through the poor; I redeem my vow. Call the chandalah who early this morning swept the ground.=94 Rama was called and thought it was for prison or death. But the Rajah amaze= d him with a gift of many thousands of rupees, and as the chandalah, now rich= , passed out, he thought he smelt a strange familiar odor and saw a dazzling form flash by. =93This,=94 thought he, =93is a deva.=94 The money made Rama rich. He established himself and invited Brahmins to teach others; he distributed alms, and one day he caused a huge building of stone to be built with broken stone chains on its sides to represent how fate ruptured his chains. And later on a wise seer, a Brahmin of many austerities, looking into his life, told him briefly, =93Next life thou art free. Thy name is Rama.=94 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 BRYAN KINNAVAN ( Adapted) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Best wishes, Dallas =20 From lalaya7@yahoo.com.br Thu Jan 05 06:39:00 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: lalaya7@yahoo.com.br X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94863 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2006 14:38:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2006 14:38:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.35) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2006 14:38:58 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jan 2006 14:38:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by mailer1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jan 2006 14:38:06 -0000 Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 14:38:02 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <002501c611fa$2f370930$0a0110ac@DALLAS> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.35 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 201.34.249.81 From: "Alaya" Subject: Re: DO WE REMEMBER .DOC X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=160996087; y=wIHez45yZB6aj3Sv-5is0DLslEdP6jkhs8d2F1MK9rER0w X-Yahoo-Profile: lalaya7 thank you dallas for this posting i was much delighted to read all this interesting stories. --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "W.Dallas TenBroeck" wrote: > > DO WE REMEMBER .DOC > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20=09=09=09 > DO WE REMEMBER? >=20 >=20 > Mozart composed minuets before he was four years old. Beethoven gave > successful concerts before he was eight, and published com positions when he > was ten. Chopin played in public before he was nine. Mendelssohn was already > famous at twelve, while Brahms ex cited attention from babyhood. Richard > Strauss was a successful composer at six, while Samuel Wesley was an > organist at three and composed an oratorio at eight. >=20 > * *=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 > * * >=20 > Ruth Slenczynski=97a child of eight years=97 was acclaimed in New York City in > 1933 for her piano recital of Bach, Beethoven, Mendelssohn, and Chopin. She > came simple and smiling upon the stage, but when she sat down to play, her > appearance was that of a mature woman in a child's body. One was forced to > realize that only the Soul present could so command the nature and body. >=20 > * *=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 > * * >=20 > "Blind Tom" was a negro born in slavery on a Georgia plantation in 1849. Not > only was he born blind but he was so nearly a congenital idiot that it was > almost impossible to teach him to talk or to perform the simplest tasks. >=20 > By the time he was ten years old he had been drilled into "tending door" > =97his sole accomplishment. In those days the kitchen was in a separate cabin > immediately back of the mansion-house dining room. Slaves would run back and > forth between kitchen and dining room at meal time and it was Blind Tom's > task to open the swinging door for them. One day a young lady guest played > some highly technical numbers just before lunch. After lunch eon the company > scattered for various amusements. It happened that the young lady re turned > to the deserted dining room for some forgotten article and was astonished to > hear the piano resounding with the music she had played an hour or two > before. Peeping into the music room she beheld Blind Tom, oblivious to all > but the magic sounds his flying fingers were conjuring from the instrument. > Within a year Mr. Bethune, Tom's "owner," was exhibiting him to large > audiences in New York City =97 to his own profit and to the world's > incredulous admiration. >=20 > * * * * >=20 > Christian Heinrich Heinecken was born in Denmark in 1721. At ten months of > age he could converse as freely and intelligently as an adult. By the time > he was a year old he knew the Pentateuch practically by heart=97knew it not > only in a memorial sense, but understood it as well as his elders who read > and told the Old Testament stories to him. By the end of his second year he > was as well versed in sacred history as those who taught him, had decided > opinions on the many moot theological questions of the time, and could hold > his own in discussion with the numerous learned divinity men who sought him > out for the sake of what they could learn from him. At three years of age he > was as much of a marvel in geography and in world history as the greatest > travelers and university professors. He was by this time proficient in > German as well as Danish, and could talk well in French and Latin. His > parents' home became a kind of place of pilgrimage to which men and women of > standing and repute from many distant places came with reverence and respect > to meet and consult with this phenomenal babe. The child died at a little > over four years of age. >=20 > * * * * >=20 > Horace Greeley, the famous American newspaper editor, was the third child of > parents who wrestled for a meager existence on a stony hillside Vermont > farm. Horace was weak, sickly, and from the first uninterested in the things > that attract and amuse babies. That he learned to read before he could talk > in other than "baby language" is told by more than one biographer. His own > mother related that she observed before he was two years old how he seemed > fascinated to see his father reading from a paper. Overburdened with family > duties, it occurred to her to give him an old newspaper to play with while > she was absent from the room. Coming into the house one day she started > toward the door of the room in which she had left Horace. Astonished to hear > a voice speaking as an adult might, and thinking some visitor must have > entered during her absence, she paused by the door and looked in. Horace was > reading aloud from the sheet before him! No one had ever taught him even his > A B C's. >=20 > * > * * * >=20 > William Henry West Betty was born in England in 1791. He appeared on the > stage at the age of eleven in adult parts, and at twelve he was playing > Shakesperian roles in London to overcrowded houses. It is of record that the > English Parliament actually adjourned on one occasion so that its members > might attend a performance in which this precocious youngster played the > role of Hamlet. >=20 > * * * > * >=20 > Elmer J. Schoneberger, Jr., born at Los Angeles in 1929, at six months of > age could con verse plainly; at a year old he had learned the alphabet; at > three, he was able to talk with ease and understanding on such subjects as > "electricity, engineering, economics, history, aviation and sports." >=20 > * * * > * >=20 >=20 > A GREEK LESSON [Prologue to "Gorgo"]. >=20 >=20 > I stopped short; I flung down the book. "It is a lie," I cried bitterly, "a > cruel, hateful lie," >=20 > I almost shouted, =97 and the whole class stared at me in amazement. >=20 > A strange outburst was that for the dingy, drowsy Greek-room of the > little New England college. I was as much surprised as any; I stood confused > at myself. For then it was that I remembered. >=20 > The passage which I was translating seemed innocent enough=97to all the > rest. We were reading at sight =97 the professor's particular hobby; and he > was exploiting upon us the Twelfth Oration of Lysias. >=20 > But I had been paying scant attention to what they were reading. Greek > was easy to me always, and the halting drone with which they turned the > sweet Attic into their class-room jargon wearied my ears. And my thoughts > had drifted far away into I know not what regions of day-dreams, under a > bright sky buttressed on purple hills, when I heard the incisive voice of > the professor: >=20 > "Leonard, you may read now, beginning with the seventy-eighth section." > It cut through the mists of cloud land like the flash of a searchlight. >=20 > I started to my feet, found the place and began: >=20 > "`And although he has been the author of all these and still other > disasters and disgraces, both old and new, both small and great, some dare > to profess themselves his friends; al though it was not for the people that > Theramenes died, but because of his own villainy=97'Then I choked and stopped. > Tears swam in my eyes, and a hot flash scalded my cheeks. For in that > instant first I understood; and in that instant it seemed to me that they > all understood. >=20 > But the professor, rather mortified at my unwonted hesitation, began to > prompt: >=20 > "Go on, Leonard, =97 go on, it is not so hard=97 `and no less justly would he > have died under the democracy, which he twice enslaved' =97 why, Leonard!". >=20 > "It is a lie," I burst forth. "A cruel, hateful lie." Those words which > he uttered so calmly had stung me like the lashes of a scourge, =97 so > malignant, so artful, so utterly unjust. And the whole world had read > them=97this had been believed for centuries, with none to contradict! >=20 > "To say it when a man was dead !" I went on. "And Lysias! for Lysias to > say it!" I had quite forgotten the class; I saw only the foppish, waspish > little orator, declaiming before the people with studied passion and hot > indignation well memorized. But the people had never accepted it They knew > me better. . . >=20 > "They would not listen to such as Lysias; they would make an uproar and > rise from the benches. How dared that alien accuse the best blood of > Athens!" Yet I could scarcely have told you why I said it. >=20 > My classmates were too much astonished to laugh. The professor laid down > his book; mine I flung on the floor. My blood was boiling; my soul a tumult. >=20 > "What does this mean, Leonard?" I heard the voice; I could not clearly see > the speaker. >=20 > "I will not read it=97I will not read another line," I cried. . >=20 > For the past had opened like a darkness lightning-cleft; all in one moment I > felt the injustices of ages; the shame of an aeon of scorn=97and they asked me > to read against my self the lying record. I would die again sooner than read > it. I could not realize that they did not comprehend. >=20 > It was not often that Professor Lalor was at a loss for words, but there was > a long pause before he spoke. >=20 > "Young man," he said slowly, "I always like my student s to manifest a > living interest in what they read, and this trait I have especially > commended in you heretofore. But there is measure, Leonard, in all things, > as the Greeks themselves have taught us; and this exceeds=97 this certainly > exceeds. One would fancy you contemporary authority." . . >=20 > Again I had choked, but anger gave me back my speech. >=20 > "Lysias an authority!" I exclaimed. "Lysias ! " >=20 > My sight had cleared. The class sat quiet, startled out of their laughter; > the professor looked pained and puzzled. >=20 > "There is a degree of truth in what you seem to imply," he said. "It may > be conceded that Lysias was somewhat lacking in the judicial quality. And as > to Theramenes, Aristotle has expressed a very different estimate of him. Yet > Lysias=97" >=20 > "He was no better than a sycophant," I broke in. >=20 > "Go to your room, Leonard. You forget yourself." But the truth was, I had > remembered myself. > After that they nicknamed me Theramenes: I was nicknamed after myself, > and none suspected. >=20 >=20=09 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 >=20 >=20 > My sister was born and married abroad. On arrival in England she and her > husband set off to visit at an old manor house in Wiltshire. >=20 > On entering the lodge gates, my sister turned to her husband and said, > "Why, this is my old home," and to his surprise, she pointed out landmarks > on the way. >=20 > The experience was related at dinner, and the host, somewhat incredulous, > playfully said, "Perhaps you will discover the Priest's Hole !" It was > mentioned in the history of the place that one existed in Tudor times, but > it had never been discovered. >=20 > After dinner the guests adjourned to the gallery to see some old > pictures, and it was noticed my sister was missing. They found her in a room > nearby, counting the panels on the wall, and looking somewhat dreamy. > Suddenly she exclaimed, "This is the one," and asked her husband to press a > leaf in the carving very hard as she could not manage it. >=20 > He did so, the panel moved stiffly, and a tiny room was revealed, dusty > with age, and empty save for a broken piece of pottery and a pallet, which > had evidently been used for a bed. >=20 > * * * * >=20 > The first year of little Jackie's life we called him our little Chinaman, > because his features=97particularly his eyes=97were Chinese. After his fi= rst > year, he began to lose that Oriental look. But he was always different from > the other children=97silent, he preferred to play alone, and would play for > hours with one object. >=20 > As he grew older, it was noticed that Jackie was the one who did things. > If he started a thing, he always finished it. Often we would hear the others > say, "Jackie can fix it!" And always Jackie fixed it. >=20 > It was when he was five years old that I made the boys each a pair of > navy blue pants. Immediately, Jim tried his on. When I asked Jackie if he > wanted to put his on, he said, No=97 he would put them in his drawer until I > got his shirt made. "But Jackie," I said, "I just made you some shirts." >=20 > "I know," he answered, "but they are not the right kind." >=20 > "What is the right kind?" >=20 > "The right kind is long, like this," he said, and he measured with his > little hand down to his knees. > "But boys don't wear shirts like that!" >=20 > "I know. But they don't wear the right kind of shirts. I want you to make > mine black with lots of pretty colors on it." >=20 > "Daddy," said I, "doesn't wear that kind of shirt." >=20 > "No, Daddy doesn't wear the right kind of shirt, nor Ned Lane, either." > (Ned Lane is a friend of his father.) >=20 > I asked Jackie if he would wear this long black shirt with the pretty > colors to school, and he said yes, he would; because it was the right kind > of shirt! >=20 > And then we say, we don't "remember." >=20 > * * * > * >=20 > When children come to visit me, they love to dress up in my clothes, and > "play lady." One day, Betty May had spent an unusually long time in my room, > and finally came out in a long dress, with a scarf wound round her head. >=20 > She said, "Look, Grannie! This is the way we dressed when we were > Indians." >=20 > "Oh, were you an Indian?" I queried innocently. >=20 > She looked at me with surprise in her eyes, and said, "Of course. And you > too, Grannie. Don't you remember? What is the name of that country where we > lived when we were Indians?" >=20 > I asked if it were India, maybe, but she said, no, that wasn't the right > name. >=20 > Then I asked, "Were the babies Indians, too?" >=20 > Quickly she answered, "Oh, no. Not Jackie. Jackie was another kind of man. > Jackie looked like this" =97 and she drew herself up very straight and folded > her arms across her chest. >=20 > "How about Jim and Sue? Were they Indians ?" >=20 > She looked very serious for a minute, and then said, "I don't remember, > Grannie." >=20 > Then someone came in, and we were never able to pick up the thread again, > until several weeks later when she told me,=20 >=20 > "Mother doesn't know all the things we know, Grannie." >=20 > "Why doesn't she, dear?" I said. >=20 > "Because, she hasn't been to our country." >=20 > "But how do you know, Betty May?" I asked. >=20 > The only answer I could get was, "You know, Grannie." >=20 > And then we say, we don't "remember." >=20 > * * * > * >=20 > When Baby Carla was six weeks old, she saw her Uncle Hal for the first > time. A twinkle came in her eyes, she smiled, and put out her tongue at him! > Ever after, that was her sign of welcome to him, though sometimes she ex > tended the greeting to others especially favored.=20 >=20 > Between her and Uncle Hal there seemed to be always some inner secret bond > of delight and companionship, so that just as soon as she began to say > "Mama" and "Papa," she also began to use a name for Uncle Hal. "Pak-kar," > she called him.=20 >=20 > Her parents were mystified. What strange freak made that word, like nothing > anyone had ever heard before?=20 >=20 > There was no variation in it at any time. It was always clear and > distinct=97unmistakable. Before the little one had reached the age of two= , > however, Uncle Hal died suddenly. Carla appeared to know nothing about it, > except that several times in the next few weeks, and very contrary to her > usual sunny awakening from sleep, she woke crying, as if her heart were > broken. When her mother soothed her and asked her why she cried, she said, > "Pak-kar's gone !" She never again greeted anyone with little tongue thrust > out. >=20 > Two years after this, while Carla's mother was reading one of Breasted's > histories, she came to a chapter in which was discussed the similar roots of > words in old languages. Across the page sprang into her view this line, > giving the ancient forms of our word, father: Greek Latin Teutonic Sanscrit > Tibetan pater pater vater pitar pakkar. >=20 > It was four years later when Carla's father brought home from the library > a book of travel on Tibet, in which was illustrated the Tibetan greeting, > first used by Carla at the age of six weeks! >=20 > * * * * >=20 >=20=20=20=20 > Little Robert was the sunniest, happiest, most lovable little four-year-old > boy anyone ever knew! Not only was he cherished by all those in his family, > including aunts and uncles and cousins, but friends =97 even strangers =97 found > him "different" from other little ones, and with a strange power to lighten > their hearts. But, one day a terrible disease struck him swiftly, and he > died. >=20 > Little Robert's parents knew about reincarnation, and their sorrow was > more bearable because they had also heard that when a child dies under the > age of seven years, the same Ego might reincarnate again in the same family. > Two years later, a little brother was born to them, so closely resembling > little Robert that they could not help giving the babe the same name. As he > grew, old familiar ways were recognized, and the two babes seemed blended in > this one. They began to speak of the first little Robert as "the other one." >=20 > Meantime, some of the families of cousins had moved far away, and had > never seen the second Robert. One day, when he was three years old, one of > these girl cousins came to the house on a surprise-visit. She entered the > room where the little fellow was playing on the floor with his blocks, and > stood quietly for a moment. Robert looked up at her, smiled radiantly, flung > out his arms and called, "Ong !" >=20 > This was the name the first Robert had given her=97a name which had never been > used by anyone, save him! >=20 >=20 > --------------------------------------------------------- >=20 >=20 > The following undoubtedly true story was written by a commercial > photographer of Minneapolis. She is the elder sister of little Anne, and up > to the time of the incident, neither she nor any of the family believed in, > or knew anything of, the doctrine of re-birth. The article appeared in the > American Magazine of July, 1915. >=20 > "Anne, my little half-sister, younger by fifteen years, was a queer little > mite from the beginning. She did not even look like any member of the family > we ever heard of, for she was dark almost to swarthiness, while the rest of > us were all fair, showing our Scotch Irish ancestry unmistakably. >=20 > "As soon as she could talk in connected sentences, she would tell herself > fairy stories, and just for the fun of the thing I would take down her > murmurings with my pencil in my old diary. She was my especial charge =97 my > mother being a very busy woman=97and I was > very proud of her. These weavings of fancy were never of the usual type that > children's fairy tales take; for, in addition to the childish imagination, > there were bits of knowledge in them that a baby could not possibly have > absorbed in any sort of way. >=20 > "Another remarkable thing about her was that everything she did she > seemed to do through habit, and, in fact, such was her insistence, although > she was never able to ex plain what she meant by it. If you could have seen > the roystering air with which she would life her mug of milk when she was > only three and gulp it down at one quaffing, you would have shaken with > laughter. This particularly embarrassed my mother and she reproved Anne > repeatedly. The baby was a good little soul, and would seem to try to obey, > and then in an absent-minded moment would bring on another occasion for > mortification. `I can't help it, mother,' she would say over and over again, > tears in her baby voice, `I've always done it that way!' >=20 > "So many were the small incidents of her `habits' of speech and thought > and her tricks of manner and memory that finally we ceased to think anything > about them, and she herself was quite unconscious that she was in any way > different from other children. >=20 > "One day when she was four years old she became very indignant with Father > about some matter and, as she sat curled up on the floor in front of us, > announced her intention of going away forever. >=20 > "`Back to heaven where you came from?' inquired Father with mock > seriousness. She shook her head. >=20 > "`I didn't come from heaven to you,' she asserted with that calm > conviction to which we were quite accustomed now. `I went to the moon first, > but=97you know about the moon, don't you? It used to have people on it, but it > got so hard that we had to go.' >=20 > "This promised to be a fairy tale, so I got my pencil and diary. >=20 > "`So,' my father led her on, `you came from the moon to us, did you?' >=20 > "`Oh, no,' she told him in casual fashion. `I have been here lots of > times=97sometimes I was a man and sometimes I was a woman!' >=20 > "She was so serene in her announcement that my father laughed heartily, > which enraged the child, for she particularly disliked being ridiculed in > any way. >=20 > "`I was! I was!' she maintained indignantly. `Once I went to Canada when > I was a man! I `member my name, even.' >=20 > "`Oh, pooh-pooh,' he scoffed, `little United States girls can't be men > in Canada! What was your name that you `member so well?' >=20 > "She considered a minute. `It was Lishus Faber,' she ventured, then > repeated it with greater assurance, `that was it=97Lishus Faber.' She ran the > sounds together so that this was all I could make of it=97and the name so > stands in my diary today; `Lishus Faber.' >=20 > "`And what did you do for a living, Lishus Faber, in those early days?' My > father then treated her with the mock solemnity befitting her assurance and > quieting her nervous little body. >=20 > `I was a soldier'=97she granted the information triumphantly=97'and I took the > gates!' >=20 > "That was all that is recorded there. Over and over again, I remember, we > tried to get her to explain what she meant by the odd phrase, but she only > repeated her words and grew indignant with us for not understanding. Her > imagination stopped at explanations. We were living in a cultured community, > but al though I repeated the story to inquire about the phrase=97as one does > tell stories of beloved children, you know=97no one could do more than > conjecture its meaning. >=20 > "Some one encouraged my really going further with the matter, and for a year > I studied all the histories of Canada I could lay my hands on for a battle > in which somebody `took the gates.' All to no purpose. Finally I was > directed by a librarian to a `documentary' history, I suppose it is=97a funny > old volume with the `s' like f' s, you know. This was over a year afterward, > when I had quite lost hope of running my phrase to earth. It was a quaint > old book, interestingly picturesque in many of its tales, but I found one > bit that put all others out of my mind. It was a brief account of the taking > of a little walled city by a small company of soldiers, a distinguished feat > of some sort, yet of no general importance. A young lieutenant with his > small band=97the phrase leaped to my eyes=97'took the gates.' And the name of > the young lieutenant was `Aloysius Le F=EAbre.'" >=20 >=20 > --------------------------------------------------- >=20 >=20 > It is told of one American gentleman, on his first visit to London, that > while waiting in a lawyer's office to keep an appointment, he began to have > a sense of familiarity of the room steal over him. The feeling grew very > strong, till finally he said to himself: "Well, if I ever have been here > before, there is a certain knot-hole in the panel of that door over > there=97and if so, it is under that calendar hanging there!" He walked over > to the door and lifted the calendar. The knot-hole was there, as he knew it > would be. >=20 >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------- >=20 >=20 > THE TURN OF THE WHEEL >=20 > He was the son of a ruler in Rajpootana. His father governed a district, > including several villages as well as his own small town, with justice and > wisdom, so that all were prosperous and happy. The ruler was called a Rajah; > he lived in a building made of stone, built on a hill that commanded the > town. The son was born after the Rajah had been for many years childless, > and was the only child to whom the father's honors and power could descend. > He was named Rama after the great Avatar. From the time he was born and > until he could speak, a strange look was always to be seen in his baby eyes; > a look that gazed at you without flinching, as if he had some design on you; > and yet at times it seemed to show that he was laughing at himself, sorry, > too; melancholy at times. >=20 > Rama grew up and delighted his father with his goodness and strength of > mind. The strange glance of his eye as a baby remained with him, so that > while every one loved him, they all felt also a singular respect that was > sometimes awe. His studies were completed, and he began to take part in the > administration of the affairs of the old and now feeble rajah. >=20 > Rama felt a great need of being alone. Every day he retired to his room, > unattended, and on the fourteenth of each month spent the entire day alone. > He felt a weight upon his heart which did not come from this life. He had > had no sorrow, had lost no bright possession; his ambitions were all > fulfilled. He longed to know what was before him yet to learn. This was why > he spent his time in self- searching and meditation. So, he came to find > that his higher self spoke one language, and the personal self another. He > came to see that the personal self weighted him down with the chains of > ignorance, and that his must be a search, not for possessions, but for > knowledge, no matter where the search should take him. Then, one day, a > vision passed before him of the poverty and the riches that might be his, of > huts and buildings of stone, as he went on his way to enlightenment. But > after this, he was no longer troubled, no longer sorrowful; his mind was at > peace. >=20 > His old father died, and he carried on the government for many years, > scattering blessings in every direction, until a rival rajah came and > demanded all his possessions, showing a claim to them through a forgotten > branch of the family. Instead of rejecting the claim, which was just, > instead of slaying the rival as he could have done, Rama resigned all, > retired to the forest, and died, after a few years of austerity. >=20 > * * * * >=20 > The wheel of time rolled on and Rama was reborn in a town governed by the > Rajah who had once in a former life demanded Rama's possessions. But now > Rama was poor, un known, an outcaste, a chandalah who swept up garbage and > hoped that Karma might help him. He knew not that he was Rama; he only swept > the garbage near the Rajah's palace. >=20 > A solemn audience was held by the Rajah with all the priests and the > soothsayers present. Troubled by a dream of the night before, the > superstitious ruler called them in to interpret, to state causes learnedly, > to prescribe scriptural palliative measures. He had dreamed that while > walking in his garden, hearing from his treasurer an account of his > increasing wealth, a huge stone building seemed suddenly to grow up before > him. As he stopped amazed, it toppled over and seemed to bury him and his > wealth. Three times repeated, this filled him with fear. >=20 > The astrologers retired and consulted their books. The remedy was plain, one > suggested. "Let the King give up a vast sum of money to morrow to the first > person he sees after waking up." This decision was accepted, and the pro > poser of it intended to be on hand early so as > to claim the money. The Rajah agreed to the direction of the stars, and > retired for the night, full of his resolution to give immense gifts next > day. No horrid dreams disturbed his sleep. The winking stars moved over the > vault of heaven, and of all the hosts the moon seemed to smile upon the city > as if she heard and knew all.=20 >=20 > The cold early morning, dark with promise of dawn, saw the chandalah, =97 once > Rama=97 sweeping up the garbage near the palace where inside the Rajah wa= s > just awaking. The last star in heaven seemed to halt as if anxious that Rama > should come in his sweeping to the side of the palace from which the Rajah's > window opened. Slowly the Rajah's waking senses returned, and as they came a > hideous memory of his dream flashed on him. Starting up from the mat on > which he lay, he rose and seemed to think. >=20 > "What was I to do? Yes, give gifts. But it is not yet day. Still the oracle > said `immediately on awakening'." >=20 > As he hesitated, the poor garbage sweeper outside came more nearly in front > of his window. The setting star almost seemed to throw a beam through the > wall that struck and pushed him to the window. Flinging open the shutter to > get breath, he looked down, and there before him was the poor chandalah with > waistcloth and no turban, sweating with exertion,-hastening on with the task > that when finished would leave the great Rajah's grounds clean and ready for > their lord. >=20 > "Thank the gods," said the Rajah, "it is fate; a just decision; to the poor > and the pious should gifts be given." >=20 > At an early hour he gathered his ministers and priests together and said=97 "I > give gifts to the devas through the poor; I redeem my vow. Call the > chandalah who early this morning swept the ground." >=20 > Rama was called and thought it was for prison or death. But the Rajah amazed > him with a gift of many thousands of rupees, and as the chandalah, now rich, > passed out, he thought he smelt a strange familiar odor and saw a dazzling > form flash by. "This," thought he, "is a deva." >=20 > The money made Rama rich. He established himself and invited Brahmins to > teach others; he distributed alms, and one day he caused a huge building of > stone to be built with broken stone chains on its sides to represent how > fate ruptured his chains. And later on a wise seer, a Brahmin of many > austerities, looking into his life, told him briefly, > "Next life thou art free. Thy name is Rama." >=20 > BRYAN KINNAVAN ( Adapted) >=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 >=20 > Best wishes, >=20 > Dallas > From jplummer@bestweb.net Thu Jan 05 06:58:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: jplummer@bestweb.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37184 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2006 14:58:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2006 14:58:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.40) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2006 14:58:40 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jan 2006 14:57:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by mailer3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jan 2006 14:57:35 -0000 Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 14:57:34 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20060105140729.sonxl29pd88wg0o4@wm2.pacific.net.au> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.40 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 160.129.157.104 From: "John Plummer" Subject: Re: The Lord's Prayer X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=10901779; y=mobBOl1PbgJnOAeE6ruw7OIdQucsFIEBskTW-_9ZV3xSU6L9oA X-Yahoo-Profile: jplummerus Gregory -=20 Thanks for your post on the "Aramaic Lord's Prayer" business. I=20 very much agree with what you say, and, IMHO, the same applies to=20 Neil Douglas-Klotz's more famous yet equally dubious "translation." I would have no problem with any of these renderings of the Lord's=20 Prayer if folks were very clear about the fact that these are=20 personal, modern interpretations - and not in any way literal=20 translations of the text. For anyone to whom this seems a bit hard-nosed ---- If you are=20 really interested in the biblical text, it is well worth taking a=20 little Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek at your local university or=20 seminary. I'm not particularly good at languages, but had to suffer=20 through the required amount in Divinity School, and am glad that I=20 did. It doesn't take a lot to acquire enough familiarity to use=20 standard resources to check out issues for yourself. Best, John From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Thu Jan 05 07:47:24 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88438 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2006 15:47:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2006 15:47:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.54) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2006 15:47:24 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jan 2006 15:46:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.72] by mailer1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jan 2006 15:46:53 -0000 Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 15:46:52 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.54 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: "Some Questions Concerning Reincarnation", etc.: Updated X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=lWuZdOhyEWNh9RvsQjj_hdNXMKDIwflEsPzA6iThnHyFJ6h1dduzJYDD X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell "Some Questions Concerning Reincarnation and the Fate of Victims of Accidents & Violence" See: http://blavatskyarchives.com/reincarnationstevenson.htm Daniel Blavatsky Study Center http://blavatskyarchives.com =20 From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Thu Jan 05 08:44:27 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30933 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2006 16:44:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2006 16:44:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.222) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2006 16:44:26 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jan 2006 16:44:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by mailer1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jan 2006 16:44:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.68] by mailer4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jan 2006 16:44:22 -0000 Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 16:44:21 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 216.155.203.222 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: Can Personal Experiences of the Paranormal be "Deceptive" or "Illusionary"? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=CXc2Nq4p90JFqrGmIh9fZxFyrFkek7EJmx6JdrTgBDUIFPiwT8210ynx X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Or to put it in a more direct way: can my own personal experiences of the paranormal be "deceptive" or "illusionary" or "misleading"? Focusing only on some Theosophical sources, I would say that the answer is "yes." See the material from the writings of H.P. Blavatsky and her Adept Teachers at: "Psychic VERSUS Initiate Visions & Knowledge" http://blavatskyarchives.com/psychicversusinitiate.htm Notice the particular individuals mentioned in these extracts.... Emanuel Swedenborg, Jakob Boehme, W. Stainton Moses, Anna Kingsford, Edward Maitland, Rai Salig Ram. I'm sure that none of these individuals would have agreed with what Blavatsky and the Mahatmas said about their=20 personal experiences. They would have simply said: I know what I see and personally experience, etc. etc. Let us take one more example, C.W. Leadbeater's observations of the planet Mars. Read what he writes: http://blavatskyarchives.com/leadbeatermars.htm Notice what Mr. Leadbeater says about his observations: "the information which I have given above is based upon observation=20 and inquiry during various visits to the planet...." And he clearly states that these observations are based on his own personal experience: "The influence of gravity both on Mars and Mercury is less than half=20 what it is on earth, but while on Mars I did not notice any=20 particular way in which advantage had been taken of this. I observed=20 on Mercury that the doors of the houses were quite a considerable=20 height...." Now some Theosophical students may wish to consider Mr. Leadbeater a=20 con artist and fraud, but if we assume he is telling the truth and=20 is simply relating to us what he actually personally experienced,=20 personally saw and observed, the question is: Do his personal experiences, his personal observations of conditions=20 on Mars match the facts as science now knows it? And if the answer is no, then why? And as far as contradictions go concerning the current topic of reincarnation, consider this one: "Life After Death in Kamaloka (the Astral World): H.P. Blavatsky=20 versus C.W. Leadbeater" at: http://blavatskyarchives.com/morganafterdeath.htm=20 I call attention in that essay to the following statement by Dr. Hugh Shearman: ". . . the accounts of after-death conditions in her [Blavatsky's]=20 own direct writings and in the Mahatma Letters clash very=20 emphatically not only with what Bishop Leadbeater and other members=20 of the [Adyar Theosophical] Society later described, but also with=20 descriptions given by psychics quite unconnected with the=20 Society."=20=20=20 Especially to the part of the statement which reads: "also with descriptions given by psychics quite unconnected with the=20 Society."=20 >From my reading in new age, occult, esoteric and paranormal=20 material, I would have to agree that probably=20 most "psychics", "sensitives", "seers", etc. would give a=20 description of life after death very similar to Leadbeater's=20 description. So why the difference between HPB/the Theosophical Adepts and these=20 other psychics, etc.? HPB even writes a letter which was published in 1882 in which she=20 describes her own "illusionary" experiences earlier in her life. See: http://blavatskyarchives.com/blavatskyhume1881.htm I will write more later when I have more time and will also discuss=20 the relevant theory proposed by Sri Madhava Ashish in his book=20 titled: Man, Son of Man. Daniel http://blavatskyarchives.com From waking.adept@gmail.com Thu Jan 05 09:09:07 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: waking.adept@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 98135 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2006 17:09:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2006 17:09:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wproxy.gmail.com) (64.233.184.207) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2006 17:09:06 -0000 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i7so712238wra for ; Thu, 05 Jan 2006 09:08:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.119.13 with SMTP id w13mr1379460qbm; Thu, 05 Jan 2006 09:08:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.123.10 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Jan 2006 09:08:02 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 12:08:02 -0500 To: Theosophy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Originating-IP: 64.233.184.207 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 From: "Mark Hamilton Jr." Subject: The Five Sacred Colors X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219719026 What are the five sacred colors? -Mark H. -- Mark Hamilton Jr. waking.adept@gmail.com From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Thu Jan 05 09:15:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42400 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2006 17:15:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2006 17:15:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.43) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2006 17:15:00 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n9.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jan 2006 17:14:32 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by mailer2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jan 2006 17:14:31 -0000 Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 17:14:29 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.43 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: Did Jesus Exist? Did Morya Exist? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=fVl0ZPD3Jbo3Ur2A53S0G_Pc-1q_NxN1IISfXnXtJz48o_y4-AojOLFL X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Did Jesus Exist? Did Morya Exist? A correspondent brings up these questions. So I have expanded on them as follows: What is the evidence for the existence of Jesus? What is the evidence for the existence of Morya? What is the quality of the evidence, the amount of evidence? Primary sources, secondary sources and accounts? Eyewitness accounts versus third hand accounts? Is there more evidence to support the existence of Jesus than of Morya or vice versa? Daniel http://hpb.cc From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Thu Jan 05 09:49:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37342 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2006 17:49:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2006 17:49:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.231) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2006 17:49:13 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n8.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jan 2006 17:42:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by mailer2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jan 2006 17:42:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.87] by mailer7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jan 2006 17:41:59 -0000 Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 17:41:58 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 216.155.203.231 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: 2003 Dissertation on Blavatsky & the Theosophical Movement Online X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=DCg1BeZTyyUp36f8nmznnU8rtccWhJelwvEe0C7uwjHpagwj4clpSbBd X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell 2003 Dissertation on Blavatsky & the Theosophical Movement Online=20=20=20 The Theosophical Movement of the Nineteenth Century by Arnold Kalnitsky =20 University of South Africa, 2003. =20 For full text online in pdf format, see: =20 http://etd.unisa.ac.za/ETD-db/ETD-desc/describe?urn=3Detd-08242004- 151122#top =20 Scroll down page to see links to pdf files of each chapter. =20 Daniel Blavatsky Study Center http://blavatskyarchives.com=20 From bartl@sprynet.com Thu Jan 05 10:22:12 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5528 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2006 18:22:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2006 18:22:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.66) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2006 18:22:10 -0000 Received: from [151.198.115.250] (helo=sprynet.com) by smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EuZjs-0004fT-GM for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 05 Jan 2006 13:21:28 -0500 Message-ID: <43BD63AD.90203@sprynet.com> Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 13:21:33 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: <43B9E74F.7000507@sprynet.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: 5be619ec394aa49c25eb773df4b61cbad54b58e5ad8ed13b46726224921e9440795b3f24a9f74b7f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.66 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Theos-World ULT X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=690370; y=PY6hd4sbIliJ9iKxnjVHQ2OHDAIR1irtdpirCRMRpsB4dlI X-Yahoo-Profile: bml07646 I don't know which train you take, but the New York Theosophical Society has members' meetings every Wednesday. They're at 53rd St. between 2nd and 3rd Ave., easy walking distance from Grand Central Station, and right on the E train, which stops at Penn Station. However, last I heard (which was about 5 years ago), the ULT in New York has several meetings a week. Bart Mark Hamilton Jr. wrote: > New York City. > > -Mark H. > > On 1/2/06, Bart Lidofsky wrote: > >> What city? >> >>Mark Hamilton Jr. wrote: >> >>>I missed my trip to the united lodge this month. >>> >>>I was very much looking forward to going. I was in the city quite >>>recently, but I would've missed my train if I had gone. I'll be in the >>>city again shortly, and will definately take the time to drop by next >>>time >> >> >> >> >> >>Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > -- > Mark Hamilton Jr. > waking.adept@gmail.com > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > From waking.adept@gmail.com Thu Jan 05 11:11:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: waking.adept@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69298 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2006 19:11:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2006 19:11:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO zproxy.gmail.com) (64.233.162.199) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2006 19:11:03 -0000 Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id r28so2503979nza for ; Thu, 05 Jan 2006 11:09:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.115.10 with SMTP id s10mr1470006qbm; Thu, 05 Jan 2006 11:09:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.123.10 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Jan 2006 11:09:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 14:09:54 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <43BD63AD.90203@sprynet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <43B9E74F.7000507@sprynet.com> <43BD63AD.90203@sprynet.com> X-Originating-IP: 64.233.162.199 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Mark Hamilton Jr." Subject: Re: Theos-World ULT X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219719026 I would've been able to drop by ULT or the NY Theo Society for a few minutes, which is just enough time to catch the subway to go back and catch my train. I didn't even know if there would be a meeting in progress, or anything else to see there for our remaining time, so we just went home. I'll probably be going back this month with a close friend of mine. -Mark H. On 1/5/06, Bart Lidofsky wrote: > I don't know which train you take, but the New York Theosophical > Society has members' meetings every Wednesday. They're at 53rd St. > between 2nd and 3rd Ave., easy walking distance from Grand Central > Station, and right on the E train, which stops at Penn Station. > > However, last I heard (which was about 5 years ago), the ULT in N= ew > York has several meetings a week. > > Bart > > Mark Hamilton Jr. wrote: > > > New York City. > > > > -Mark H. > > > > On 1/2/06, Bart Lidofsky wrote: > > > >> What city? > >> > >>Mark Hamilton Jr. wrote: > >> > >>>I missed my trip to the united lodge this month. > >>> > >>>I was very much looking forward to going. I was in the city quite > >>>recently, but I would've missed my train if I had gone. I'll be in the > >>>city again shortly, and will definately take the time to drop by next > >>>time > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Mark Hamilton Jr. > > waking.adept@gmail.com > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > -- Mark Hamilton Jr. waking.adept@gmail.com From jplummer@bestweb.net Thu Jan 05 11:39:29 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: jplummer@bestweb.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14933 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2006 19:39:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2006 19:39:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.55) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2006 19:39:28 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jan 2006 19:39:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.69] by mailer7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jan 2006 19:39:23 -0000 Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 19:39:23 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.55 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 160.129.157.104 From: "John Plummer" Subject: Re: ULT X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=10901779; y=llKrYO_mX43_iaR_pWD92-JzNd_aT-aK-MHh_ufe3r-zCyuPew X-Yahoo-Profile: jplummerus Hi Mark - I'm a former NYTS member, and always enjoyed my time=20 there. (I have since moved to TN.) It's a nice place with great=20 people - hope you have a chance to stop by. I used to live around=20 the corner from the NY ULT lodge - didn't have as much contact with=20 them, but the folks I met there were always welcoming. --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Hamilton Jr."=20 wrote: > > I would've been able to drop by ULT or the NY Theo Society for a=20 few > minutes, which is just enough time to catch the subway to go back=20 and > catch my train. >=20 > I didn't even know if there would be a meeting in progress, or > anything else to see there for our remaining time, so we just went > home. I'll probably be going back this month with a close friend of > mine. >=20 > -Mark H. >=20 >=20 > On 1/5/06, Bart Lidofsky wrote: > > I don't know which train you take, but the New York=20 Theosophical > > Society has members' meetings every Wednesday. They're at 53rd=20 St. > > between 2nd and 3rd Ave., easy walking distance from Grand=20 Central > > Station, and right on the E train, which stops at Penn Station. > > > > However, last I heard (which was about 5 years ago), the=20 ULT in New > > York has several meetings a week. > > > > Bart > > > > Mark Hamilton Jr. wrote: > > > > > New York City. > > > > > > -Mark H. > > > > > > On 1/2/06, Bart Lidofsky wrote: > > > > > >> What city? > > >> > > >>Mark Hamilton Jr. wrote: > > >> > > >>>I missed my trip to the united lodge this month. > > >>> > > >>>I was very much looking forward to going. I was in the city=20 quite > > >>>recently, but I would've missed my train if I had gone. I'll=20 be in the > > >>>city again shortly, and will definately take the time to drop=20 by next > > >>>time > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>Yahoo! Groups Links > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Mark Hamilton Jr. > > > waking.adept@g... > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >=20 >=20 > -- > Mark Hamilton Jr. > waking.adept@g... > From ringding@online.de Thu Jan 05 13:33:34 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47980 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2006 21:33:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2006 21:33:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.171) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2006 21:33:33 -0000 Received: from [84.191.135.228] (helo=captain70e702a) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu10) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0ML31I-1Eucjk0Ig3-0001eb; Thu, 05 Jan 2006 22:33:32 +0100 Message-ID: <002601c6123f$a46acc60$152ca8c0@captain70e702a> To: References: Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 22:33:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:d066391b47e67c594ae06bf3d758d7eb X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.171 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World Did HPB "cull" Theosophy from the religions of the world? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=224426186; y=EIP4BLpGHeEXvhsDfsZq4pGP7l2sQ7x5oaiYEn8GgO2sFiRrNkdQsUupeA X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer =>For example, did HPB herself "cull" the teaching about the terrestrial chain of globes from various religious works or did she receive the teaching from her Masters....? Daniel, the doctrine of the Earth chain was no new invention. Robert Flood for example wrote about it. I once have seen a diagram from him about the seven Earth globes. Had Sinnett be aware of Flood he would have been probably understand KH better. Frank From ringding@online.de Thu Jan 05 13:35:24 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39826 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2006 21:35:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2006 21:35:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.187) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2006 21:35:22 -0000 Received: from [84.191.135.228] (helo=captain70e702a) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu3) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKxQS-1EuclV0jpt-0000eq; Thu, 05 Jan 2006 22:35:21 +0100 Message-ID: <004501c61240$1b993470$152ca8c0@captain70e702a> To: References: Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 22:36:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:d066391b47e67c594ae06bf3d758d7eb X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.187 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World The Five Sacred Colors X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=224426186; y=5YXDzohJ05RKNxGuDufaWpbuufDHvpoaux4V0sD75Qlj6Wbtrat8GQvPXA X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer Look at the Buddhist flag, which Olcott designed. Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Hamilton Jr." To: "Theosophy" Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 6:08 PM Subject: Theos-World The Five Sacred Colors What are the five sacred colors? -Mark H. -- Mark Hamilton Jr. waking.adept@gmail.com Yahoo! Groups Links theos-talk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com From samblo@cs.com Thu Jan 05 15:53:55 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: Samblo@cs.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45144 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2006 23:53:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2006 23:53:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2006 23:53:53 -0000 Received: from Samblo@cs.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.268.3990696 (63000) for ; Thu, 5 Jan 2006 18:52:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <268.3990696.30ef0b44@cs.com> Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 18:52:36 EST To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 6.0 sub 10512 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.139.136 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 From: samblo@cs.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Did HPB "cull" Theosophy from the religions of the world? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=27151446 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Frank, Don't you mean Robert Fludd? John [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From samblo@cs.com Thu Jan 05 16:06:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: Samblo@cs.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43274 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 00:06:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 00:06:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m18.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.208) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 00:06:40 -0000 Received: from Samblo@cs.com by imo-m18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.7d.77cb0f0a (63000) for ; Thu, 5 Jan 2006 19:06:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <7d.77cb0f0a.30ef0e86@cs.com> Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 19:06:30 EST To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 6.0 sub 10512 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.138.208 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: samblo@cs.com Subject: Re: Theos-World The Five Sacred Colors X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=27151446 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Frank, The 5 colored flag preceded Olcutt in Tibet by some thousands of years: From:www.prayerflags.com/download/article/pdf+tibet+5+colors&hl=3Den >>The Elements Vajrayana Buddhism divides the phenomenal and psycho-cosmic world into five= =20 basic energies. In our physical world these manifest as earth, water, fire,= =20 air and=20 space. Our own bodies and everything else in the physical world is composed= =20 of=20 these five basic elements. On a spiritual level these basic energies=20 correspond=20 to the 5 Buddha Families and the 5 Wisdoms. Prayer flags reflect this=20 comprehensive system through color; each of the 5 colors relates to an=20 element=20 and an aspect of enlightened mind. It should be noted that there are two=20 systems used so there is sometimes confusion about which color corresponds = to=20 which element. The order of the colors in prayer flag displays remains the= =20 same=20 in both the systems. The color order is always: yellow, green, red, white a= nd=20 blue. In a vertical displays the yellow goes at the bottom and the blue at= =20 the top.=20 For a horizontal display the order can go either from right to left or from= =20 left to=20 right. According to the Nyingma School (Ancient Ones) the color element=20 correspondence is: Blue =E2=80=93 space=20 White =E2=80=93 air (sometimes referred to wind or cloud) Red =E2=80=93 fire Green =E2=80=93 water=20 Yellow =E2=80=93 earth The New Translation Schools switch the colors for air and water but keep th= e=20 order of the colors the same.=20 Categories of Prayer Flags Prayer flag types can be divided into about two-dozen categories; half a=20 dozen of=20 which comprise a large majority of the flags we see today. Page 6=20=20 Wind Horse (Lung- ta) flags are by far the most common prayer flag, so much= =20 so=20 that many people think that the word lung-ta means prayer flag. Their purpo= se=20 is=20 to raise the good fortune energy of the beings in the vicinity of the praye= r=20 flag.=20 The wind horse, usually in pictorial form, always occupies the center of th= is=20 flag.=20 The outside corners of the flag is always guarded by the four great animals= =E2=80=93=20 the=20 garuda, dragon, tiger and snow lion =E2=80=93 either in pictorial form or i= n written=20 word.=20 The texts on the flags differ; usually a collection of various mantras or a= =20 short=20 sutra. The Victory Banner Sutra (Gyaltsen Semo) is the most popular.=20 Victorious Banners are used to overcome obstacles and disturbances.=20 Shakyamuni Buddha gave the Victory Banner Sutra to Indra, king of the god=20 realm. Indra was instructed to repeat this sutra when going into battle in= =20 order to=20 protect his troops and to assure victory over the demigods. The sutra has=20 many=20 protective dharanis to overcome obstacles, enemies, malicious forces,=20 diseases=20 and disturbances. Victory Banner flags display this sutra along with symbol= s=20 such as the wind horse, the Eight Auspicious Symbols, the Seven Possessions= =20 of a Monarch and the Union of Opposites. Often there are special mantras=20 added to increase harmony, health, wealth and good fortune.=20 Health and Longevity Flags usually have a short version of the Buddha=E2=80= =99s Long=20 Life Sutra along with prayers and mantras for health and long life. Amitayu= s,=20 the=20 Buddha of Limitless Life is often in the center of the flag. Two other long= =20 life=20 Deities, White Tara (peace and health) and Vijaya (victorious protection) a= re=20 sometimes included. The Wish Fulfilling Prayer (Sampa Lhundrup) is a powerful protection prayer= =20 written by Guru Padmasambhava. It is said to be especially relevant to our= =20 modern age and is good for raising one=E2=80=99s fortune, protecting agains= t war,=20 famine,=20 and natural disasters, as well as overcoming obstacles and quickly attainin= g=20 ones=20 wishes. These flags often have Guru Rinpoche in the center and repetitions = of=20 his powerful mantra OM AH HUNG VAJRA GURU PADMA SIDDHI HUNG.=20 Praise to the 21 Taras was composed by the primordial Buddha Akshobhya. It= =20 was written into Sanskrit and Urdu by Vajrabushan Archarya and translated=20 into=20 Tibetan by Atisha in the 11 th century. The first 21 Tara prayer flags are attributed=20 to him. Tara was born from the compassionate tears of Avalokiteshvara. As h= e=20 shed tears for the countless suffering beings one tear transformed into the= =20 Savioress Green Tara who then manifested her twenty other forms. The prayer= =20 to the 21 Taras praises all her manifestations. The flags with this prayer= =20 usually=20 depict Green Tara in the center and often conclude with her root mantra OM= =20 TARE TUTARE TURE SOHA. The purpose of this flag is to spread=20 compassionate blessings. Other prayer flag categories are too numerous to describe in this article b= ut=20 a few=20 of the more popular designs are listed as follows: Avalokiteshvara =E2=80= =93=20 Bodhisattva=20 of Compassion, The Warrior-King Gesar, The White Umbrella for Protection, t= he=20 Page 7=20=20 Kurukulle Power Flag, Manjushri- Embodiment of Wisdom, Milarepa =E2=80=93 t= he Yogi- saint, and the Vast Luck Flag.=20 Raising Prayer Flags Prayer flags typically come on ropes to be hung in horizontal displays or=20 printed=20 on long narrow strips of cloth that are tied on vertical poles. Prayer flag= s=20 on=20 ropes are printed on 5 different colors of cloth (yellow, green, red, white= =20 and blue)=20 so sets are always in multiples of 5. Pole flags are either a single solid= =20 color or=20 the 5 colors sewn together into one flag. They range in height from about 3= ft=20 to=20 40 ft or more. Pole flags often have colored streamers or =E2=80=9Ctongues= =E2=80=9Dthat are=20 imprinted with special increasing mantras meant to increase the power of th= e=20 prayers written on the body of the flag. It is also common to see displays = of=20 many=20 plain white prayer flags on poles erected around monasteries and pilgrimage= =20 sites.=20 Most of the imported prayer flags are printed on polyester or nylon blends.= =20 Surprisingly, good quality cotton is hard to find in Nepal and India.=20 Wholesale=20 price differences for prayer flags are often due to the different qualities= =20 of cloth.=20 Tibetans don=E2=80=99t mind the gauzy low thread count cloth (the wind pass= es through=20 it=20 easily) but Americans tend to prefer finer quality materials. Synthetics vs= .=20 cotton=20 is a matter of opinion. Some feel that polyester and nylon are more durable= ,=20 some say they fade faster. Cotton colors tend to be richer and cotton threa= ds=20 are=20 better for the environment (I frequently see pieces of prayer flags in bird= s=20 nests=20 around my studio). Radiant Heart Studios print only on high quality cotton = or=20 high cotton count polyester. Oddly enough it=E2=80=99s difficult to find go= od quality=20 cotton=20 in Nepal and India and what is called 100% cotton often has something else= =20 mixed in. Placing prayer flags in and around one=E2=80=99s home or business imparts a= feeling=20 of=20 harmony, increases the spiritual atmosphere and brings to mind the teaching= s=20 of=20 enlightenment. By placing prayer flags outdoors their sacred mantras are=20 imprinted on the wind, generating peace and good wishes.=20 Ropes of prayer flags can be strung horizontally between two trees (the=20 higher=20 the better), between house columns or along the eaves of roofs. Sometimes=20 they are strung at angle (be sure that the wind horse points uphill).=20 Vertical Pole=20 Flags look wonderful in a garden, try a prayer flag =E2=80=9Cgrove=E2=80=9D= in a breezy area.=20 Bamboo works the best for flagpoles but any wood, metal or plastic pole wil= l=20 work.=20 When raising prayer flags proper motivation is important. If they are put u= p=20 with=20 the attitude =E2=80=9CI will benefit from doing this=E2=80=9D=E2=80=93 that= is an ego-centered=20 motivation=20 and the benefits will be small and narrow. If the attitude is =E2=80=9CMay = all beings=20 Page 8=20=20 everywhere receive benefit and find happiness,=E2=80=9Dthe virtue generated= by such=20 motivation greatly increases the power of the prayers. Tibetan tradition considers prayer flags to be holy. Because of they contai= n=20 sacred texts and symbols they should be treated respectfully. They should n= ot=20 be=20 placed on the ground or put in the trash. When disposing of old prayer flag= s=20 the=20 traditional way is to burn them so that the smoke may carry their blessings= =20 to the=20 heavens.=20 If you have any information or stories to share about prayer flags we at=20 Radiant=20 Heart Studios would love to hear from you. We collect images of prayer flag= s=20 if=20 you have any you=E2=80=99d like to donate to our archives. Our collection o= f=20 traditional=20 Tibetan prayer flags from Tibet, Bhutan, Nepal and India is growing and we= =20 are=20 always interested in obtaining especially nice woodblock prints from people= =20 traveling to those places. Written by Timothy Clark in the 8 th month of the Water Horse year at Redway, CA=20 Copyright Radiant Heart Studio. If you would like to reproduce << John [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Thu Jan 05 16:29:56 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47798 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 00:29:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 00:29:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m25.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.6) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 00:29:54 -0000 Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.fc.22d145e4 (4254) for ; Thu, 5 Jan 2006 19:29:44 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 19:29:44 EST To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5021 X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.6 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World The Five Sacred Colors X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=rWB12TjgxvC9RoO-5WBanVTJfipOUGQ9vBAI-y81tFm0Ith6kg X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As opposed to the 15 1/2 profane colors? Chuck the Heretic _http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano_ (http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From prmoliveira@yahoo.com Thu Jan 05 16:56:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: prmoliveira@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55311 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 00:56:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 00:56:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.231) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 00:56:16 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n8.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 00:55:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by mailer1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 00:55:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by mailer3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 00:55:08 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 00:55:06 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 216.155.203.231 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 59.167.7.76 From: "prmoliveira" Subject: Gladney Oakley X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39079617; y=1m-Aln_rjYEtFbr7X5YalgdsqntPUKSQmCQtQL58k9NUp7rfcKU X-Yahoo-Profile: prmoliveira Gladney Oakley, a volunteer worker for the TS in Australia for many=20 years and the person who conceived of and implemented the Union Index=20 of Theosophical Periodicals, which includes all volumes of *The=20 Theosophist* and *Lucifer*, passed away in Sydney on Monday, January=20 2nd, 2006. He was a real Theosophist, dedicated, gentle and kind, and=20 his friends in Australia and around the world will miss him.=20 The funeral service will be held on Tuesday, January 10th, 2006 in the=20 Camellia Chapel of the Macquarie Park Crematorium, Delhi Road, North=20 Ryde, Sydney, commencing at 11:00am. Pedro Oliveira From dirk@mu6.com Thu Jan 05 17:00:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dirk@mu6.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65472 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 01:00:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 01:00:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pillow.ml1.org) (207.228.238.29) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 01:00:09 -0000 Received: from [10.0.1.82] (101.219-200-80.adsl.skynet.be [80.200.219.101]) (authenticated bits=0) by pillow.ml1.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k060xMWI004084 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 5 Jan 2006 19:59:38 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <1136462609.322.56019.m19@yahoogroups.com> References: <1136462609.322.56019.m19@yahoogroups.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 01:59:20 +0100 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.87.1, clamav-milter version 0.87 on localhost X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Originating-IP: 207.228.238.29 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Dirk Laureyssens Subject: THEORIES ABOUT REINCARNATION X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=170461313; y=nkIxnf-qqHexotSjZEFZThiV7Sojwaqj1ZYpJf6qbiWQUIxWqNBd X-Yahoo-Profile: pelastration Hello All, I think and know reincarnation has to do with conservation of energy, not just the traditional (measurable) energy but also the deeper hidden energies of mental and spiritual processes, and to do with the storage of information. The problem of duality (the coupling of mind/ spirit and body) can be understood from a topological point of view. Einstein saw a gravitational background field (called by him "Das Feld"). Such a field can also be called a field of stress (elasticity). Remember that Buddha said that everything is stress. If we look for a unifying principle it should be a UNITY on the top (or the deepest level). It can not contain on that level duality, it can not have separation.If such unity (we can call it also interconnectedness) is the start everything that we see and feel .... it can not be broken, neither cut, neither divided, neither glued, neither teared in pieces. The tathagata womb is indivisible. Thus we can not say that it are billions of little strings like string theory say ... no ... it must be something that is and stays ONE, but something that has tremendous potency of energy but has also on local stops local areas of difference. These local areas (holons) will have duality (yin and yang), and they will have stress which is extremely stored (knotted/captured) and after a certain time released again. In electric terms we could call that a capacitor. It stores energy and releases it after some time. If we look to such feedback system ( a cyclic energy system) there must be an very simple basic mechanism behind it since it is created by itself, and only by itself since there is nothing else. So a genderless system must be able to create - on certain spots - by itself ... local zones of duality, and the rest - still genderless - stays in a non-dual dynamic state of potency . How can that happen? It is quite simple. The background can be seen as a spheric membrane that is non-breakable but very dynamic. The sphere surface is oscillating all the time. But suddenly two peaks can couple by a penetration. One peak (A) can penetrate another peak (B). Since the membrane can not break the penetrating peak can only push against the passive membrane peak on a local area. It will push away a part of the passive peak. If the penetration is sufficient strong there will be created a new area where one peak covers the other peak. More specific: The penetrating peak (Yang) is covered by the passive peak (Yin). So on that spot a new dual zone is created, which contains duality (Yang covered by Yin). The rest of the membrane sphere is still genderless and oscillate constantly, but in the new local area with duality (called a holon) where the dynamics are damped (connected/joined). In that holon we have now STRUCTURE, where the rest of the sphere is without structure. If you want to see this very simple mechanism please check : http://www.mu6.com/holon_creation.html . Now based on this topological concept we can understand reincarnation or rebirth in a extremely logic approach. Two different sides of the membrane sphere can join, namely the inside holons which are more yang (spiritual/energy like) can couple with outside holons which are more yin (materialized). So mind/spirit couples with matter (sperm/ ovum) like you can "see" on http://www.mu6.com/life_body_and_mind.html . So during the incarnation the spirit enters and couples with the fertilized ovum, and on the moment of death the spirit withdraws. (the white tunnel!) On http://www.mu6.com/holon_causality.html you can see + count the layers which ALL COME FROM THE SAME MEMBRANE (which can infold in many different type of holons). Remarkable is that the four basic holon type ... have each 22 combinations in the next 4 levels of combinations. 22 ways ... 22 letters in the Hebrew alphabet. 22 paths in the TREE. Have fun! Dirk From waking.adept@gmail.com Thu Jan 05 17:15:55 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: waking.adept@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30683 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 01:15:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 01:15:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wproxy.gmail.com) (64.233.184.196) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 01:15:55 -0000 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i6so899946wra for ; Thu, 05 Jan 2006 17:15:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.119.10 with SMTP id w10mr1737600qbm; Thu, 05 Jan 2006 17:15:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.123.10 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Jan 2006 17:15:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 20:15:53 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Originating-IP: 64.233.184.196 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Mark Hamilton Jr." Subject: Re: Theos-World The Five Sacred Colors X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219719026 Including Shmellow, which quite the contrary to title isn't very profane at= all. -Mark H. On 1/5/06, Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > As opposed to the 15 1/2 profane colors? > > Chuck the Heretic > > _http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano_ (http://www.geocities.com/c_cosiman= o) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > -- Mark Hamilton Jr. waking.adept@gmail.com From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Thu Jan 05 17:17:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32387 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 01:17:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 01:17:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.40) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 01:17:04 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 01:16:05 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by mailer2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 01:16:05 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 01:16:04 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.40 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: Robert Fludd: An Anthology of His Writings X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=ydx2eu4sUAqHk6S7_9LbYRzphaqWjdi2LdNyfenHTPtNl8HpK0YtFORP X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Robert Fludd Edited by William H. Huffman Robert Fludd (1574=961637) was a true Renaissance man: Kabbalist and=20 alchemist, scientist and philosopher, astrologer and musician.=20 Educated at Oxford, he practiced medicine in London, where he also set=20 up a large alchemical laboratory. Fludd's richly illustrated writings=20 cover the entire range of practical, scientific, divinatory, and=20 speculative thought known at the time.=20 William Huffman's anthology of his writings reintroduces a crucial=20 player in the Western mystic tradition.=20 See: http://tinyurl.com/88a27 From eldon@theosophy.com Thu Jan 05 18:45:12 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: eldon@theosophy.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23386 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 02:45:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 02:45:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp104.mail.sc5.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.223) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 02:45:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 45849 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 02:45:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scribe) (eldon?tucker@72.129.94.160 with login) by smtp104.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 02:45:08 -0000 To: Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 18:45:02 -0800 Message-ID: <006201c6126b$320dbe80$6800a8c0@scribe> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 Thread-Index: AcYSR79/Ci3zLH3KEdqdsQCQJ1qy7QAIvx3A X-Originating-IP: 66.163.169.223 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Eldon B Tucker" Subject: FW: Tacoma X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=5654132; y=5LEBaakT8v1C8zRKOrPUifL8P5V91N8uAoB8pslF7w1kNDLoY4q5 X-Yahoo-Profile: eldon_tucker Here's a copy of a message that went out to many people regarding the Tacoma Lodge of the Theosophical Society. Since that lodge's situation has been discussed before, but there's not been any message from the other side of the situation, and since the message appears to be intended for public dissemination rather than private in nature, I'm forwarding a copy to theos-talk. Eldon -----Original Message----- From: natsec@theosophical.org [mailto:natsec@theosophical.org] Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 2:22 PM To: theos.mail@verizon.net; amsec@pacbell.net; theosophical_society@yahoo.com; loli@netspace.net.au; tanman777@comcast.net; ohansen27@aol.com; ruthk31@earthlink.net; et-prent@ping.at; iswaragarden@centurytel.net; barbara@hal-pc.org; pgevorkian@socal.rr.com; tupa@theosofie.net; Mtbelleros@aol.com; NelsonNo1@aol.com; tsportland@juno.com; theosophical.society@kingsgarden.org; wmcdavid@satx.rr.com; tslibrary@theosociety.org; tupress@theosociety.org; mlaporte@scnc.holt.k12.mi.us; tstec@theosociety.org; theosnw@theosophy-nw.org; ts.pasadena@eclipse.co.uk; theosophydc@aol.com; thelmapugliese@email.com; epelleti@netcom.ca; oasis@alharris.com; carlosaveline@hotmail.com; subaruza_31@hotmail.com; curtkyle@concast.net; epelleti@telus.net; fohat@planet.eon.net; edbl1@comcast.net; armin.zebrowski@t-online.de; jlee@eskimo.com; ultinla@juno.com; maurice.warnon@kingsgarden.org; afhr@co-masonry.org; timestar@timestar.org; mcdavid@uthscsa.edu; rrdon27@earthlink.net; lodge@Seattle-TS.org; mz_pimptress_t@yahoo.com; editor@theosophy.com; joan@eclipseproductionsltd.com; info@uua.org Subject: Tacoma Dear fellow Theosophist, In response to the e-mail sent by John Scott to lodges and other members in regard to the lawsuit filed by a group of local members in Tacoma, naming him and others as co-defendants, I am sending you the following information, in order to clarify national's involvement with these proceedings. I visited the group in late October 2005, in one last attempt to reconcile differences but John Scott was adamant that they were establishing an entity independent from the Theosophical Society in America. We have no choice but to continue with the current course of action, which does involve national's support of the lawsuit filed against the former Tacoma Lodge officers and board named as co-defendants. The lawsuit alleges that the officers and trustees of the Tacoma Lodge have not honored or followed their 1941 bylaws as a lodge of the Theosophical Society in America. . John Scott and co-defendants addressed the national board of directors with articles of secession declaring Tacoma's independence from the American Section and International Society. . Defendants have not been in compliance with the official bylaws of the Tacoma Branch (registered with TSA in 1941). . The defendants have made clear their intention to sell the lodge property and set up an unaffiliated organization. . The defendants have allowed a member (minor) to use the lodge as a private domicile to the exclusion of accessibility to all lodge members. . Accounting records of expenditures are inadequate, including disposition of a known $10,000 bequest. While it is important for each lodge or local group to function as an independent entity and to manage its own affairs, there are certain safeguards that are important to the ongoing integrity of the property's usage which has been contributed to and built up by members of the Theosophical Society for the lifetime of the lodge. The national center does not want nor need local properties, but serves as a safeguard, assuring members that their contributions to local work will not be diverted to some alternate use. In fact, if any group dissolves for any reason, national holds its assets in trust for the future benefit of Theosophical work in that area. The inclusion of an asset clause in all local bylaws should be a priority to every group, as it assures there cannot be a takeover of a Lodge's assets for anyone's personal agenda. The new group has held elections, begun meeting, and continues the work of the Theosophical Society in America in Tacoma. We wish them every success. If you have any further questions you can direct them to Jeffery Forth, National Secretary, or to myself-Betty Bland, National President. With all best wishes, Betty Jeffrey S. Forth National Secretary Theosophical Society in America PO Box 270 Wheaton IL 60187 (800)669-1571 ext. 321 (Vision) has a vision of wholeness that inspires a fellowship united in study, meditation, and service. (Mission) encourages open-minded inquiry into world religions, philosophy, science, and the arts in order to understand the wisdom of the ages, respect the unity of all life, and help people explore spiritual self-transformation. (Ethic) holds that our every action, feeling, and thought affects all other beings and that each of us is capable of and responsible for contributing to the benefit of the whole. Not only does the Society have a vision of union with one another, and a mission of exploration, but also an ethic of putting these high ideals into action. We invite you to explore with us and join us in the great adventure. From gregory@zeta.org.au Fri Jan 06 00:15:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: gregory@zeta.org.au X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44407 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 08:15:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 08:15:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailout1.pacific.net.au) (61.8.0.84) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 08:15:28 -0000 Received: from mailproxy2.pacific.net.au (mailproxy2.pacific.net.au [61.8.0.87]) by mailout1.pacific.net.au (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id k068FOcd019315 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 2006 19:15:24 +1100 Received: from mailproxy2.pacific.net.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailproxy2.pacific.net.au (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id k068FOgx012093 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 2006 19:15:24 +1100 Received: (from www-data@localhost) by mailproxy2.pacific.net.au (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id k068FOAf012090 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 6 Jan 2006 19:15:24 +1100 X-Authentication-Warning: mailproxy2.pacific.net.au: www-data set sender to gregory@zeta.org.au using -f Received: from ppp31BC.dsl.pacific.net.au (ppp31BC.dsl.pacific.net.au [202.7.67.188]) by wm2.pacific.net.au (Horde MIME library) with HTTP for ; Fri, 06 Jan 2006 19:15:24 +1100 Message-ID: <20060106191524.e7e2shkehds0w08g@wm2.pacific.net.au> Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 19:15:24 +1100 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-Originating-IP: 61.8.0.84 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: gregory@zeta.org.au Subject: Jesus didn't exist and he lived 100BC! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=796991 (1) Did Jesus exist? This is not the same as =93Was Jesus the Son of God?=94 or some such questi= on. It is simply a question for the historian (as are questions like =93Did Socrates = exist?=94 or =93Did Herod exist?=94). That anyone in the 21st century would bother to assert that Jesus did not e= xist is indeed extraordinary, given the vast weight of scholarship (as opposed t= o =93psychic revelation=94) that has been devoted to this question! Scholars = who are agnostics, humanists or atheists have reached the conclusion that his exist= ence is a simple matter of historical fact. For those whose intellects can=92t face the burden of serious scholarship o= n the subject, a good, basic introduction (written from a distinctly non- or even anti-Christian point of view) is Ian Wilson=92s "Jesus. The Evidence" [Weid= enfeld and Nicolson, London, 1984]. (2) Did Jesus live 100BC (or BCE) ? Although this claim is put forward by Blavatsky, it was essentially G.R.S.M= ead who promoted it in his endlessly-reprinted "Did Jesus Live 100BC?" (which, = it might be remembered, was based more on Leadbeater=92s clairvoyant =93revela= tions=94 than on anything else, although this is not acknowledged). Insofar as Mead attempts to use any =93ancient=94 source, he relies on what= he calls the Toldoth Jeschu. Alas for Mead, and his imitators, this =93ancient=94 so= urce is at best a mediaeval satire and at worst a mediaeval forgery. The Toledot Yeshu ( literally Generations of Yeshu), is the title of severa= l mediaeval manuscripts containing legends and folktales but are not part of rabbinic literature and are not considered canonical or normative. The orig= inal text came into being in the 5th century, at the earliest, and more probably= (and according to most scholars) in the 10th century, and subsequently spread, i= n Hebrew and Yiddish versions. Jewish scholars do not claim any historical ba= sis for it, and most critics suggest that it appeared during periods of widespr= ead persecution of the Jews (for example, the Crusades). The Oxford Dictionary = of Jewish Religion says of it, ".the work is an expression of vulgar polemics written in reaction to the no less vulgar attacks on Judaism in popular Christian teaching and writing [of that time]". The Toledoth Yeshu blends and blurs the stories of three men who lived from= the second century BC to the second century AD: the late 2nd century BC religi= ous leader Yeshu Ha Notzri who was executed; an early second century AD Ben St= ada who was alleged to have practiced some form of "sorcery"; and an early firs= t century AD Ben Pandera whose disciples were healers. The Toledoth Yeshu combines stories about of these three men, and others li= ke the 5th century AD Rabbi Tanhuma Bar Abba, creating what one commentator ha= s described as =93one satirical and cautionary would-be messiah tale=94. There is nothing in the way of a scholarly work supporting Mead=92s thesis:= G. Nevin Drinkwater, an English Theosophist and Liberal Catholic priest, wrote= a vast (and apparently unpublished) work to =93prove=94 the case. I have a manuscript of it in my archives. In the light of modern (post-1975) Biblica= l scholarship such a labour seems more a tragic waste of time and energy than anything else. Those who want to argue that either (1) Jesus did not exist, or (2) he live= d (more or less) 100 BC (or BCE) needs to =93come up with the goods=94. Those= who argue that he lived, and around the time traditionally claimed, have produc= ed vast volumes of heavy research and scholarship. Medieval forgeries and =93p= sychic revelations=94 may impress the gullible; that some people are gullible is a= bout all that proves. Dr Gregory Tillett From dalval14@earthlink.net Fri Jan 06 04:11:36 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9616 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 12:11:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 12:11:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.69) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 12:11:35 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EuqQp-0006Ug-Vq; Fri, 06 Jan 2006 07:10:56 -0500 To: Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 04:10:36 -0800 Message-ID: <004701c612ba$38a91560$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <20060106191524.e7e2shkehds0w08g@wm2.pacific.net.au> X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7947334b2b918702ce6f2e405396763736350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.69 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: Jesus didn't exist and he lived 100 BC! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=pLd-wWY9vdzII18pSyLJaL5Y7Il8wx5d8wJRlFwIpCs5XQ X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/6/2006 4:01 AM Dear Friends: Please also consider this: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D WAS JESUS A REAL PERSON? An impression seem to have arisen that H.P.B. denied that Jesus ever lived at all.=20 My understanding is that she only denied the historicity of the Gospel=92s =93Jesus,=94 -- i.e., the Jesus, as portrayed in the four Gospels, is a fabrication, a concoction.=20 She brings forward esoteric teaching to show that the Gospel account is an historizing of the zodiacal signs and cycles of the most ancient philosophers, under which they concealed some of their Cosmogonical facts a= s myths, and she adds there indeed lived a great reformer than the adept: Jesus.=20 Let me offer some notes made in studying ISIS UNVEILED and The SECRET DOCTRINE.=20 I U II p. 150 : Here Jesus is shown to be a real historical character, a great reformer.=20 "All this points to the fact, that except a handful of self-styled Christians who subsequently won the day, all the civilized portion of the pagan world who knew of Jesus honoured him as a philosopher an adept whom they placed on the same level with Pythagoras and Apollonius. Whence such a veneration on their part for a man, were he simply, as represented by the Synoptics, a poor, unknown Jewish carpenter from Nazaret= h ?=20 As an incarnated God there is no single record of him on this earth capable of withstanding the critical examination of science ; as one of the greates= t reformers, an inveterate enemy of every theological dogmatism, a persecutor of bigotry, a teacher of one of the most sublime codes of ethics, Jesus is one of the grandest and most clearly-defined figures on the panorama of human history...." =20 I U II p. 152 : Early Nazarenes believed Jesus to have been over-shadowe= d by the Divine and that its influence waned when he was on the cross. 'THEOSOPHIST' for March 1883, has an article on the =93Real Jesus.=94 Ther= e it states that Jesus was never a historical personage but a myth built on the historical Jeshu of Lydda -- a Jewish Adept who lived from 120 to 70 B C, and that the real founder of Christianity was St. Paul. =20 Jesus was also known as Ben Panthera [also PANDERA] (son of Panthera) [Glos= . p 248, [ I U II p. 201, H P B Articles III 173]. For the origin of the non-existent Jesus of the Gospels we must turn to accounts of the Gnostic sect of Marcion. [ Glos. p. 207] Marcion, [Glos p. 207] one of the prominent Gnostics, wrote =93Antithesis" challenging the Church corruptions of the pure philosophy regarding the tru= e nature of the Christos, and the Church responded with its "Refutations" -- full of lies and falsehoods -- Tertulian and Epiphanius, also early Church Fathers, excelling in the art of falsification. The Church destroyed most o= f the works of the Gnostics, yet preserved a record of their doctrines in the =93Refutations.=94 =20 Marcion recognised no other Gospel than a few Epistles of Paul. He rejected totally the anthropomorphism of the Old Testament and drew a clear line of demarcation between old Judaism and the new =93Christianity.=94=20 He looked on Jesus as neither a king, nor a Messiah of the Jews, nor a =93s= on of David.=94 He declared that he was "=85 a divine being sent to reveal to= man a spiritual religion, and a God of goodness and grace hitherto unknown" ( = I U II p. 162).=20 =20 =20=20=20=20 Whether Jesus belonged to the sect of the Nazarenes or Essenes is difficult to establish, but Jesus preached the philosophy of Sakyamuni, the Buddha. I U, II 132 and 133=20 While Nazars of olden time were the Chaldean Kabalists, the Essenes were th= e converts of Buddhist missionaries who had overrun the Middle East, Egypt, Greece and even Judea at one time, since the reign of king Asoka [Glos. pp. 55-6], a zealous Buddhist, who sent out missionary Buddhist monks far and wide -- even as far as Ireland it is rumored.=20 The Essenes [Glos. p. 115] were Buddhists, and have the honour of the Nazarene reformer, Jesus, as a pupil, yet, the latter is found disagreeing with his early teachers on questions of formal observance. "He cannot strictly be called a Nazar, or a nazaria of the older sect. What Jesus was, may be found in the Codex Nazaraeus, in the unjust accusations of the Bardesanian Gnostics." (we must note this hint and inquire into the Codex and accounts of Bardesanian Gnostics). [Glos. pp. 226, 129, 50] =20 What does the Codex Nazareus [Glos., p. 86] say ? "Jesu is Nebu, the false Messiah, the destroyer of the old orthodox religion." It is further said in ISIS UNVEILED : He is the founder of the sect of the new nazars -- a follower of the Buddhist doctrine. Nebu is from naba, meaning inspiration i= n Hebrew, and Nebo is god of wisdom. "But Nebo is also Mercury, and Mercury i= s Buddha [Wisdom] in the Hindu monogram of planets. Moreover, we find the Talmudists holding that Jesus was inspired by the genius of Mercury [Bodha - Wisdom. Glos. p. 226]." =20 Jesus preached the philosophy of Buddha--Sakhyamuni. He belonged to one of these sects who were cursed by the Sanhendrin and was secretly persecuted b= y the orthodox. =20 Both in the KEY TO THEOSOPHY and ISIS UNVEILED we see parallels drawn between the two great Reformer--Teachers : Jesus and Gautama Buddha. [see ISIS UNVEILED II p. 133] It is said that both of them had the same motive: 1. to reform the current popular Jewish religion, and,=20=20 2. teaching pure Ethics, the true teaching having been concealed as an exclusive property of certain esoteric sects. =20 ISIS UNVEILED II 135 :- Jesus is there said to be over 40 years of age, according to Kabalisits, when he arrived at Jerusalem. I U II p. 136 and 137 -- an account is given of how Iranaeus manipulated the Gospels to make it appear that=20 (a) Jesus did not belong to the sect of Nazarenes, the school of John the Baptist, and=20 (b) that his appellation Nazarene is derived from the fact that his father 's residence was at Nazareth, and not because he belonged to the sect of Nazarenes. I U II p. 127 We are given a clue that Jesus was a true Nazarene. With ideas of reform, we must not look for evidence in the Gospels, which are fabrications, but seek in the true original Christianity -- the remnant= s of the Gnostics. H P B writes:=20=20 "Thus, if we take into account all that is puzzling and incomprehensible in the four Gospels, revised and corrected as they now stand, we shall easily see for ourselves that the true, original Christianity, such as was preache= d by Jesus, is to be found in the so-called Syrian heresies. Only from them can we extract any clear notions about what was primitive Christianity". =20 ISIS UNVEILED II p. 144. Jesus belonged to and received initiation from Nazarenes in the desert, and, separated himself from them, then became an independent wandering Nazaria -- a travelling therapeutae, a healer. =20 Here we see parallel between Gautama Buddha and Jesus. The former received initiation from Brahmin Initiates and learned all from them, and, seeing that great life-giving truths were withheld by this proud and exclusive caste from the masses, he separated himself from his teachers and began preaching pure ethics and a non-violent life to despised out-castes, servants, villagers, and pariahs. =20 I U II p. 144 "Both Jesus and St. John the Baptist preached the end of the Age ; which proves their knowledge of the secret computation of the priests and Kabalists, who with the chief of the Essene communities alone had the secret of the duration of the cycles. The latter were kabalists and theurgists." We are told that the meaning of the division of time into ages is esoteric, and Buddhistic. The uninitiated Christians never understood this, and accepted the words of Jesus literally, believing the world would end abruptly. =20 ISIS UNVEILED II p. 145 : Virtues such as renunciation, charity, non-violence, etc., taught by Jesus were practiced by both Essenes and Nazarenes. Christ was a teacher of =91metempsychoses=92 or reincarnation -= - repeating the Essenean teachings. The Essenes were Pythagoreans in their doctrines and habits. Jesus spoke in parables and metaphors that can be traced to the Essenes and Nazarenes.=20=20 ISIS UNVEILED II p.147 : Like methods used by the Pythagorean-Essenes, Jesus divided his teachings into the exoteric and the esoteric. He divided his followers into =93neophytes,=94 =93brethren=94 and= the =93perfect.=94=20 "But his career at least as a public Rabbi, was of a too short duration tallow him to establish a regular school of his own ; and with the exception, perhaps, of John, it does not seem that he had initiated any other apostle.=94 =20 I U II p. 148 : Sadducees (Zadokites) accused and crucified Jesus for practicing the magic of Egyptians. I U II p. 150 : Here Jesus is shown to be a real historical character, a great reformer.=20 "All this points to the fact, that except a handful of self-styled Christians who subsequently won the day, all the civilized portion of the pagan world who knew of Jesus honoured him as a philosopher an adept whom they placed on the same level with Pythagoras and Apollonius. Whence such a veneration on their part for a man, were he simply, as represented by the Synoptics, a poor, unknown Jewish carpenter from Nazaret= h ?=20 As an incarnated God there is no single record of him on this earth capable of withstanding the critical examination of science ; as one of the greates= t reformers, an inveterate enemy of every theological dogmatism, a persecutor of bigotry, a teacher of one of the most sublime codes of ethics, Jesus is one of the grandest and most clearly-defined figures on the panorama of human history...." =20 I U II p. 152 : Early Nazarenes believed Jesus to have been over-shadowed by the Divine and that its influence waned when he was on the cross. 'THEOSOPHIST' for March 1883, has an article on the =93Real Jesus.=94 Ther= e it states that Jesus was never a historical personage but a myth built on the historical Jeshu of Lydda -- a Jewish Adept who lived from 120 to 70 B C, and that the real founder of Christianity was St. Paul. =20 Jesus was also known as Ben Panthera [also PANDERA] (son of Panthera) [Glos= . p 248,=20 I U II p. 201, H P B Articles III 173]. For the origin of the non-existent Jesus of the Gospels we must turn to accounts of the Gnostic sect of Marcion. [ Glos. p. 207] In I U II p. 137 we are told, "To assure ourselves that Jesus was a true Nazarene-- albeit with ideas of a new reform--we must not search for the proof in the translated Gospels, but in such original versions as are accessible...Thus, if we take into account all that is puzzling and incomprehensible in the four Gospels, revised and corrected as they now stand, we shall easily see for ourselves that the true, original Christianity, such as was preached by Jesus, is to be found only in the so-called Syrian heresies. Only from them can we extract any clear notions about what was primitive Christianity." =20 Who were the Syrian Gnostics ? They are early sects founded by Marcion and Bardesanes. Hence it would be highly profitable to study whatever is available of these two sects and their philosophy. C. W. King recalls (GNOSTICS AND THEIR REMAINS) that according to tradition they were of Persian origin and Magians by religious training. In I U II 157-60 and 161-164 and in the Glossary more information is available. Here is a brief summary of these references : =20 Gnostic doctrines held that Christ did not and cannot ever die but only the bodily form which he had occupied died.=20 But the Church regards this as a heresy. [Dictionary says: =93heresy=94 is =93questioning Church dogmas.=94] Gnostics taught the doctrine of Maya--Illusion, of the Real and the Unreal, as Buddhists and Vedantins do.=20 Orthodox Christians called the Gnostics 'Illusionists' for believing that Christ did not and never could die.=20 Gnosis was an off-shoot of Buddhism and held the same metaphysical ideas. They made a clear distinction between =93Christos=94 and the illusionary, h= uman Jesus.=20 =93Christos=94 was for them what it is for Theosophists -- the Higher Manas= , Ego, Son of the Universal Mind, MANASA-PUTRA, the Vedic VISHVAKARMAN, who sacrificed himself to himself [his Higher Self to serve the Lower Self, and thus to redeem the worlds]. [S D II 167] =93Christos=94 or =93Christ=97Krishna=94 is explained as: "=85the incarnat= ing Egos have taken upon themselves, voluntarily and knowingly, the burden of all the future personalities. Thence it is easy to see that it is neither Mr. A nor Mr. B, nor any of the personalities that periodically clothe the Self-sacrificing Ego, which are real sufferers, but verily the innocent Christos in us." TRANSACTIONS OF THE BLAVATSKY LODGE, p. 68. [Blavatsky: COLLECTED WORKS, Vol. X ] VICARIOUS ATONEMENT The Church dogma of Vicarious Atonement arose from the mystico-metaphysical doctrine that Jesus died on the cross to save the world. This imposed as dogma and enforced by the Church is productive of immorality (another can b= e made to take our blame) and this is the source of much evil in society.=20 THE FIRST SON OF GOD Gnostics held the old theosophical doctrine that described Christ as the LOGOS, the first emanation from the invisible ABSOLUTE [the God-Head] manifesting itself as tangible in Spirit. It is the same as the Greek Logos= , the Hebrew Messiah, the Latin Verbum, the Hindu Viraj -- they are viewed metaphysically as =93collective entities, flames detached from the one eter= nal centre of Light.=94 (I U 1 p. 59). "Thus Christos, as a unity, is but an abstraction : a general idea representing the collective aggregation of the numberless spirit-entities, which are the direct emanations of the infinite, invisible, incomprehensibl= e FIRST CAUSE--the individual spirits of men." (I U II p. 159)=20 In the majority of mankind this Christos [the HIGHER SELF] is latent. It only overshadows the mortal, (which are its radiations [Rays] on earth, but also, actively manifesting in such god-like figures as the Buddha, Jesus, Krishna, etc., because all these succeeded earlier in uniting themselves permanently with their divine prototype, their "Father in Heaven."=20 Gnostic sects held this view of Christ, and of the perfectibility of all men, which the ambitious, ignorant Church Fathers sought to destroy and declared, as =93pre-existence=94 to be anathema. =20=20=20=20 Marcion, [Glos p. 207] one of the prominent Gnostics, wrote =93Antithesis" challenging the Church corruptions of the pure philosophy regarding the tru= e nature of the Christos, and the Church responded with its "Refutations" -- full of lies and falsehoods -- Tertulian and Epiphanius, also early Church Fathers, excelling in the art of falsification. The Church destroyed most o= f the works of the Gnostics, yet preserved a record of their doctrines in the =93Refutations.=94 =20 Marcion recognised no other Gospel than a few Epistles of Paul. He rejected totally the anthropomorphism of the Old Testament and drew a clear line of demarcation between old Judaism and the new =93Christianity.=94=20 He looked on Jesus as neither a king, nor a Messiah of the Jews, nor a =93s= on of David.=94 He declared that he was "=85 a divine being sent to reveal to= man a spiritual religion, and a God of goodness and grace hitherto unknown" ( = I U II p. 162).=20 Jesus ignored Jehovah and preached against the religion of the Siniatic god= . The Marcionites showed that the Church made a great blunder in identifying =93Jehovah=94 as the "Father in Heaven" of Jesus.=20 Marcion said that the mission of Jesus was to terminate the concept of Jehovah being the Lord-God of the Israelites, and, instead, to establish a pure spiritual religion, a universal faith based on unadulterated Truth. Th= e Universal Wisdom-Religion he desired to establish, he had learned at the feet of the Gurus in the Himalayas, not on mount Sinai. Marcion shows the contradictory character of Jehovah and denies any relationship to Jesus, hence the so-called Messianic prophecies of the Old Testament are done away with. =20 I U II p. 164 shows a set of tables that compare the teachings of Manu, Buddha and Jesus and thus demonstrate them to be identical.=20 In summation, one might repeat:=20=20 Theosophy, is not a creed or dogma invented by theologians, by fallible men= , but ANCIENT and UNIVERSAL KNOWLEDGE. It is the cumulative testimony of an innumerable, endless series of Seers. [S D I 272-3] It is not a religion, not a creed, nor does it have dogmas. It is not built on anything but that ancient foundation upon which every one of the religions of the world have been based. Concerning the Knowers of the Wisdom of the Universe, We find H P B wrote: = =20 "Their spiritual visions, real explorations by, and through, physical and spiritual senses untrammeled by blind flesh, were systematically checked an= d compared one with the other, and their nature sifted. All that was not corroborated by unanimous and collective experience was rejected, while tha= t only was recorded as established truth which, in various ages, under different climes, and throughout an untold series of incessant observations= , was found to agree and receive constantly further corroboration." [Key, p. 85]=20 =93The Secret Doctrine is the accumulated Wisdom of the Ages, and its cosmogony alone is the most stupendous and elaborate system: e.g., even in the exotericism of the Puranas. But such is the mysterious power of Occult symbolism, that the facts which have actually occupied countless generation= s of initiated seers and prophets to marshal, to set down and explain, in the bewildering series of evolutionary progress, are all recorded on a few page= s of geometrical signs and glyphs.=20 The flashing gaze of those seers has penetrated into the very kernel of matter, and recorded the soul of things there, where an ordinary profane, however learned, would have perceived but the external work of form. But modern science believes not in the "soul of things," and hence will reject the whole system of ancient cosmogony. It is useless to say that the system in question is no fancy of one or several isolated individuals.=20 That it is the uninterrupted record covering thousands of generations of Seers whose respective experiences were made to test and to verify the traditions passed orally by one early race to another, of the teachings of higher and exalted beings, who watched over the childhood of Humanity. That for long ages, the "Wise Men" of the Fifth Race, of the stock saved and rescued from the last cataclysm and shifting of continents, had passed thei= r lives in learning, not teaching.=20 How did they do so? It is answered: by checking, testing, and verifying in every department of nature the traditions of old by the independent visions of great adepts; i.e., men who have developed and perfected their physical, mental, psychic, and spiritual organisations to the utmost possible degree. No vision of one adept was accepted till it was checked and confirmed by th= e visions=97so obtained as to stand as independent evidence=97of other adepts= , and by centuries of experiences.=94 S D I 272-3 "Let no man set up a popery instead of Theosophy, as this would be suicidal and has ever ended most fatally" has been the plea of H.P.B. to students.( "Five Messages to American Theosophists=94 from H. P. Blavatsky. First Message, 1888 ).=20 =20 Students are invited to seek for and make their own in-depth study for of all the keys H.P.B. gives out in her books: ISIS UNVEILED, SECRET DOCTRINE= , and other of her numerous articles pertaining to the roots of Christianity, the pagan origins of Church rituals and dogmas; of those Keys, we might mention: the Anthropological, Mystical, Historical, Astrological, Astronomical, Metaphysical, Cosmogonical, Psychical, Physiological, Numerical, and Ethnological Keys furnished on both Old and New Testaments, the Book of Genesis, Gospels, Revelations, and some Kabalistic texts. ----------------------------------------------------- [from I U, Vol II, 151-53 ]=20 =93Epiphanius brings it as an idolatrous charge against the Carpocratians t= hat =93they kept painted portraits, and even gold and silver images, and in oth= er materials, which they pretended to be portraits of Jesus, and made by Pilat= e after the likeness of Christ. . . . These they keep in secret, along with Pythagoras, Plato, and Aristotle, and setting them all up together, they worship and offer sacrifices unto them after the Gentiles=92 fashion.=94 What would the pious Epiphanius say were he to resuscitate and step into St= . Peter=92s Cathedral at Rome! Ambrosius seems also very desperate at the id= ea =97 that some persons fully credited the statement of Lampridius that Alexander Severus had in his private chapel an image of Christ among other great philosophers.=20=20 =93That the Pagans should have preserved the likeness of Christ,=94 he excl= aims, =93but the disciples have neglected to do so, is a notion the mind shudders= to entertain, much less to believe.=94 All this points undeniably to the fact, that except a handful of self-style= d Christians who subsequently won the day, all the civilized portion of the Pagans who knew of Jesus honored him as a philosopher, an adept whom they placed on the same level with Pythagoras and Apollonius. Whence such a veneration on their part for a man, were he simply, as represented by the Synoptics, a poor, unknown Jewish carpenter from Nazareth?=20=20 As an incarnated God there is no single record of him on this earth capable of withstanding the critical examination of science; as one of the greatest reformers, an inveterate enemy of every theological dogmatism, a persecutor of bigotry, a teacher of one of the most sublime codes of ethics, Jesus is one of the grandest and most clearly-defined figures on the panorama of human history. His age may, with every day, be receding farther and farthe= r back into the gloomy and hazy mists of the past; and his theology =97 based= on human fancy and supported by untenable dogmas may, nay, must with every day lose more of its unmerited prestige; alone the grand figure of the philosopher and moral reformer instead of growing paler will become with every century more pronounced and more clearly defined. It will reign supreme and universal only on that day when the whole of humanity recognize= s but one father =97 the UNKNOWN ONE above =97 and one brother =97 the whole = of mankind below. In a pretended letter of Lentulus, a senator and a distinguished historian, to the Roman senate, there is a description of the personal appearance of Jesus. The letter itself, written in horrid Latin, is pronounced a bare-faced forgery; but we find therein an expression which suggests many thoughts.=20=20 Albeit a forgery it is evident that whosoever invented it has nevertheless tried to follow tradition as closely as possible. The hair of Jesus is represented in it as =93wavy and curling . . . flowing down upon his shoulders,=94 and as =93having a parting in the middle of the head after th= e fashion of the Nazarenes.=94 This last sentence shows:=20=20 1. That there was such a tradition, based on the biblical description of John the Baptist, the Nazaria, and the custom of this sect.=20 2. Had Lentulus been the author of this letter, it is difficult to believe that Paul should never have heard of it; and had he known its contents, he would never have pronounced it a shame for men to wear their hair long, thu= s shaming his Lord and Christ-God.=20=20 3. If Jesus did wear his hair long and =93parted in the middle of the forehead, after the fashion of the Nazarenes (as well as John, the only one of his apostles who followed it), then we have one good reason more to say that Jesus must have belonged to the sect of the Nazarenes, and been called NASARIA for this reason and not because he was an inhabitant of Nazareth; for they never wore their hair long.=20=20 The Nazarite, who separated himself unto the Lord, allowed =93no razor to c= ome upon his head.=94 =93He shall be holy and shall let the locks of the hair = of his head grow,=94 says Numbers (vi. 5). Samson was a Nazarite, i.e., vowed = to the service of God, and in his hair was his strength. =93No razor shall co= me upon his head; the child shall be a Nazarite unto God from the womb=94 (Jud= ges xiii. 5 ).=20=20 But the final and most reasonable conclusion to be inferred from this is that Jesus, who was so opposed to all the orthodox Jewish practices, would not have allowed his hair to grow had he not belonged to this sect, which i= n the days of John the Baptist had already become a heresy in the eyes of the Sanhedrim.=20=20 The Talmud, speaking of the Nazaria, or the Nazarenes (who had abandoned th= e world like Hindu yogis or hermits) calls them a sect of physicians, of wandering exorcists; as also does Jervis. =93They went about the country, living on alms and performing cures.=94=86 Epiphanius says that the Nazaren= es come next in heresy to the Corinthians whether having existed =93before the= m or after them, nevertheless synchronous,=94 and then adds that =93all Chris= tians at that time were equally called Nazarenes=94!=87 [ I U, Vol II, 151-53 = ]=20 In the very first remark made by Jesus about John the Baptist, we find him stating that he is =93Elias, which was for to come.=94 This assertion, if = it is not a later interpolation for the sake of having a prophecy fulfilled, mean= s again that Jesus was a Kabalist; unless indeed we have to adopt the doctrin= e of the French spiritists and suspect him of believing in re=EFncarnation. Except the kabalistic sects of the Essenes, the Nazarenes, the disciples of Simeon Ben Iocha=EF, and Hillel, neither the orthodox Jews, nor the Galilea= ns, believed or knew anything about the doctrine of permutation. And the Sadducees rejected even that of the resurrection. =93But the author of this restitution is / was Mosah, our master, upon whom= be peace! Who was the revolution (transmigration) of Seth and Hebel, that he might cover the nudity of his Father Adam =97 Primus,=94 says the Kabala. = Thus, Jesus hinting that John was the revolutio, or transmigration of Elias, seem= s to prove beyond any doubt the school to which he belonged. Until the present day uninitiated Kabalists and Masons believe permutation to be synonymous with transmigration and metempsychosis. But they are as much mistaken in regard to the doctrine of the true Kabalists as to that of the Buddhists. True, the Sohar says in one place, =93All souls are subject= to transmigration . . . men do not know the ways of the Holy One, blessed be He; they do not know that they are brought before the tribunal, both before they enter this world and after they quit it,=94 and the Pharisees also hel= d this doctrine, as Josephus shows (Antiquities, xviii. 13).=20=20 Also the doctrine of Gilgul, held to the strange theory of the =93Whirling = of the Soul,=94 which taught that the bodies of Jews buried far away from the Holy Land, still preserve a particle of soul which can neither rest nor qui= t them, until it reaches the soil of the =93Promised Land.=94 And this =93whi= rling=94 process was thought to be accomplished by the soul being conveyed back through an actual evolution of species; transmigrating from the minutest insect up to the largest animal. But this was an exoteric doctrine. We refer the reader to the KABBALA DENUDATA of Henry Khunrath; his language, however obscure, may yet throw some light upon the subject. But this doctrine of permutation, or revolutio, must not be understood as a belief in re=EFncarnation. That Moses was considered the transmigration of Abel and Seth, does not imply that the kabalists =97 those who were initiat= ed at least =97 believed that the identical spirit of either of Adam=92s sons reappeared under the corporeal form of Moses. It only shows what was the mode of expression they used when hinting at one of the profoundest mysteries of the Oriental Gnosis, one of the most majestic articles of fait= h of the Secret Wisdom. It was purposely veiled so as to half conceal and half reveal the truth. It implied that Moses, like certain other god-like men, was believed to have reached the highest of all states on earth: =97 t= he rarest of all psychological phenomena, the perfect union of the immortal spirit with the terrestrial duad had occurred. The trinity was complete. = A god was incarnate. But how rare such incarnations! That expression, =93Ye are gods,=94 which, to our biblical students, is a m= ere abstraction, has for the kabalists a vital significance.=20=20 Each immortal spirit that sheds its radiance upon a human being is a god = =97 the Microcosmos of the Macrocosmos, part and parcel of the Unknown God, the First Cause of which it is a direct emanation. It is possessed of all the attributes of its parent source. Among these attributes are omniscience an= d omnipotence. Endowed with these, but yet unable to fully manifest them while in the body, during which time they are obscured, veiled, limited by the capabilities of physical nature, the thus divinely-inhabited man may tower far above his kind, evince a god-like wisdom, and display deific powers; for while the rest of mortals around him are but overshadowed by their divine SELF, with every chance given to them to become immortal hereafter, but no other security than their personal efforts to win the kingdom of heaven, the so chosen man has already become an immortal while yet on earth. His prize is secured. Henceforth he will live forever in eternal life. Not only he may have =93dominion=94 over all the works of creation by employing the =93excellence=94 of the NAME (the ineffable one) = but be higher in this life, not, as Paul is made to say, =93a little lower than the angels.=94 The ancients never entertained the sacrilegious thought that such perfected entities were incarnations of the One Supreme and for ever invisible God. No such profanation of the awful Majesty entered into their conceptions. [ I U, Vol II, 151-53 ]=20 DTB --------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: gregory@zeta.org.au Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 12:15 AM To:=20 Subject: Jesus didn't exist and he lived 100BC! (1) Did Jesus exist? snip (2) Did Jesus live 100BC (or BCE) ? snip Dr Gregory Tillett From dalval14@earthlink.net Fri Jan 06 05:12:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73693 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 13:12:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 13:12:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.69) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 13:12:25 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EurNx-0005tw-RB; Fri, 06 Jan 2006 08:12:02 -0500 To: Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 05:11:43 -0800 Message-ID: <004b01c612c2$c2344a40$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec798370997db75de122471a2d3c25d54676350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.69 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: Re: Lord's Prayer X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=vxUsL7UKHumnB2hMRo1KKIDkBgcQVmBJVyFyKaRox5EesQ X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/6/2006 5:09 AM Thanks Roberto: : a valuable addition for us to consider -- Also add: on =E2=80=9CPRAYER=E2=80=9D : -- =E2=80=9CAncient Theosophists claimed, and so do the modern, that the infin= ite cannot be known by the finite=E2=80=95 i.e., sensed by the finite Self= =E2=80=95 but that the divine essence could be communicated to the higher S= piritual Self in a state of ecstasy. This condition can hardly be attained,= like hypnotism, by "physical and chemical means."=20=20 ENQUIRER. What is your explanation of it?=20=20 THEOSOPHIST. Real ecstasy was defined by Plotinus as "the liberation of the= mind from its finite consciousness, becoming one and identified with the i= nfinite." This is the highest condition, says Prof. Wilder, but not one of = permanent duration, and it is reached only by the very, very few. It is, in= deed, identical with that state which is known in India as Samadhi. The lat= ter is practised by the Yogis, who facilitate it physically by the greatest= abstinence in food and drink, and mentally by an incessant endeavour to pu= rify and elevate the mind. Meditation is silent and unuttered prayer, or, = as Plato expressed it, "the ardent turning of the soul toward the divine; n= ot to ask any particular good (as in the common meaning of prayer), but for= good itself =E2=80=95for the universal Supreme Good" of which we are a par= t on earth, and out of the essence of which we have all emerged. Therefore,= adds Plato, "remain silent in the presence of the divine ones, till they r= emove the clouds from thy eyes and enable thee to see by the light which is= sues from themselves, not what appears as good to thee, but what is intrins= ically good." * Key pp 10-11 IS IT NECESSARY TO PRAY?=20 ENQUIRER. Do you believe in prayer, and do you ever pray?=20=20 THEOSOPHIST. We do not. We act, instead of talking.=20=20 ENQUIRER. You do not offer prayers even to the Absolute Principle?=20=20 THEOSOPHIST. Why should we? Being well-occupied people, we can hardly affor= d to lose time in addressing verbal prayers to a pure abstraction. The Unkn= owable is capable of relations only in its parts to each other, but is non-= existent as regards any finite relations. The visible universe depends for = its existence and phenomena on its mutually acting forms and their laws, no= t on prayer or prayers.=20=20 ENQUIRER. Do you not believe at all in the efficacy of prayer?=20=20 THEOSOPHIST. Not in prayer taught in so many words and repeated externally,= if by prayer you mean the outward petition to an unknown God as the addres= see, which was inaugurated by the Jews and popularised by the Pharisees. = =20 ENQUIRER. Is there any other kind of prayer? [67]=20 THEOSOPHIST. Most decidedly; we call it WILL-PRAYER, and it is rather an in= ternal command than a petition.=20=20 ENQUIRER. To whom, then, do you pray when you do so?=20=20 THEOSOPHIST. To "our Father in heaven" -- in its esoteric meaning.=20=20 ENQUIRER. Is that different from the one given to it in theology?=20=20 THEOSOPHIST. Entirely so. An Occultist or a Theosophist addresses his praye= r to his Father which is in secret (read, and try to understand, ch. vi. v.= 6, Matthew), not to an extra-cosmic and therefore finite God; and that "Fa= ther" is in man himself.=20=20 ENQUIRER. Then you make of man a God?=20=20 THEOSOPHIST. Please say "God" and not a God. In our sense, the inner man is= the only God we can have cognizance of. And how can this be otherwise? Gra= nt us our postulate that God is a universally diffused, infinite principle,= and how can man alone escape from being soaked through by, and in, the Dei= ty? We call our "Father in heaven" that deific essence of which we are cogn= izant within us, in our heart and spiritual consciousness, and which has no= thing to do with the anthropomorphic conception we may form of it in our ph= ysical brain or its fancy: "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and = that the spirit of (the absolute) God dwelleth in you?"* Yet,=20 -------------------------------------- * One often finds in Theosophical writings conflicting statements about th= e Christos principle in man. Some call it the sixth principle (Buddhi), oth= ers the seventh (Atman). If Christian Theosophists wish to make use of such= expressions, let them be made philosophically correct by following the ana= logy of the old Wisdom-religion symbols. We say that Christos is not only o= ne of the three higher principles, but all the three regarded as a Trinity.= This Trinity represents the Holy Ghost, the Father, and the Son, as it ans= wers to abstract spirit, differentiated spirit, and embodied spirit. Krishn= a and Christ are philosophically the same principle under its triple aspect= of manifestation. In the Bhagavatgita we find Krishna calling himself indi= fferently Atman, the abstract Spirit, Kshetragna, the Higher or reincarnati= ng Ego, and the Universal SELF, all names which, when transferred from the = Universe to man, answer to Atma, Buddhi and Manas. The Anugita is full of t= he same doctrine. [68] let no man anthropomorphise that essence in us. Let = no Theosophist, if he would hold to divine, not human truth, say that this = "God in secret" listens to, or is distinct from, either finite man or the i= nfinite essence -- for all are one. Nor, as just remarked, that a prayer is= a petition. It is a mystery rather; an occult process by which finite and = conditioned thoughts and desires, unable to be assimilated by the absolute = spirit which is unconditioned, are translated into spiritual wills and the = will; such process being called "spiritual transmutation." The intensity of= our ardent aspirations changes prayer into the "philosopher's stone," or t= hat which transmutes lead into pure gold. The only homogeneous essence, our= "will-prayer" becomes the active or creative force, producing effects acco= rding to our desire.=20=20 ----------------------------------------------------- ENQUIRER. Do you mean to say that prayer is an occult process bringing abou= t physical results?=20=20 THEOSOPHIST. I do. Will-Power becomes a living power. But woe unto those Oc= cultists and Theosophists, who, instead of crushing out the desires of the = lower personal ego or physical man, and saying, addressing their Higher Spi= ritual EGO immersed in Atma-Buddhic light, "Thy will be done, not mine," et= c., send up waves of will-power for selfish or unholy purposes! For this is= black magic, abomination, and spiritual sorcery. [69]=20 Unfortunately, all this is the favourite occupation of our Christian states= men and generals, especially when the latter are sending two armies to murd= er each other. Both indulge before action in a bit of such sorcery, by offe= ring respectively prayers to the same God of Hosts, each entreating his hel= p to cut its enemies' throats.=20=20 ENQUIRER. David prayed to the Lord of Hosts to help him smite the Philistin= es and slay the Syrians and the Moabites, and "the Lord preserved David whi= thersoever he went." In that we only follow what we find in the Bible.=20=20 THEOSOPHIST. Of course you do. But since you delight in calling yourselves = Christians, not Israelites or Jews, as far as we know, why do you not rathe= r follow that which Christ says? And he distinctly commands you not to foll= ow "them of old times," or the Mosaic law, but bids you do as he tells you,= and warns those who would kill by the sword, that they, too, will perish b= y the sword. Christ has given you one prayer of which you have made a lip p= rayer and a boast, and which none but the true Occultist understands, In i= t you say, in your dead-sense meaning: "Forgive us our debts, as we forgive= our debtors," which you never do. Again, he told you to love your enemies = and do good to them that hate you. It is surely not the "meek prophet of Na= zareth" who taught you to pray to your "Father" to slay, and give you victo= ry over your enemies! This is why we reject what you call "prayers."=20=20 ENQUIRER. But how do you explain the universal fact that all nations and pe= oples have prayed to, and worshipped a God or Gods? Some have adored and pr= opitiated devils and harmful spirits, but this only proves the universality= of the belief in the efficacy of prayer. [70] THEOSOPHIST. It is explained by that other fact that prayer has several oth= er meanings besides that given it by the Christians. It means not only a pl= eading or petition, but meant, in days of old, far more an invocation and i= ncantation. The mantra, or the rhythmically chanted prayer of the Hindus, h= as precisely such a meaning, as the Brahmins hold themselves higher than th= e common devas or "Gods." A prayer may be an appeal or an incantation for m= alediction, and a curse (as in the case of two armies praying simultaneousl= y for mutual destruction) as much as for blessing. And as the great majorit= y of people are intensely selfish, and pray only for themselves, asking to = be given their "daily bread" instead of working for it, and begging God not= to lead them "into temptation" but to deliver them (the memorialists only)= from evil, the result is, that prayer, as now understood, is doubly pernic= ious: (a) It kills in man self-reliance; (b) It develops in him a still mor= e ferocious selfishness and egotism than he is already endowed with by natu= re. I repeat, that we believe in "communion" and simultaneous action in uni= son with our "Father in secret"; and in rare moments of ecstatic bliss, in = the mingling of our higher soul with the universal essence, attracted as it= is towards its origin and centre, a state, called during life Samadhi, and= after death, Nirvana. We refuse to pray to created finite beings=E2=80=95 = i. e., gods, saints, angels, etc., because we regard it as idolatry. We can= not pray to the ABSOLUTE for reasons explained before; therefore, we try to= replace fruitless and useless prayer by meritorious and good-producing act= ions. [71 ] ENQUIRER. Christians would call it pride and blasphemy. Are they wrong? = =20 THEOSOPHIST. Entirely so. It is they, on the contrary, who show Satanic pri= de in their belief that the Absolute or the Infinite, even if there was suc= h a thing as the possibility of any relation between the unconditioned and = the conditioned=E2=80=95 will stoop to listen to every foolish or egotistic= al prayer. And it is they again, who virtually blaspheme, in teaching that = an Omniscient and Omnipotent God needs uttered prayers to know what he has = to do! This=E2=80=95 understood esoterically =E2=80=95is corroborated by bo= th Buddha and Jesus. The one says "seek nought from the helpless Gods=E2=80= =95 pray not! but rather act; for darkness will not brighten. Ask nought fr= om silence, for it can neither speak nor hear." And the other=E2=80=95 Jesu= s=E2=80=95 recommends: "Whatsoever ye shall ask in my name (that of Christo= s) that will I do." Of course, this quotation, if taken in its literal sens= e, goes against our argument. But if we accept it esoterically, with the fu= ll knowledge of the meaning of the term, "Christos," which to us represents= Atma-Buddhi-Manas, the "SELF," it comes to this: the only God we must reco= gnise and pray to, or rather act in unison with, is that spirit of God of w= hich our body is the temple, and in which it dwelleth.=20 =20 PRAYER KILLS SELF-RELIANCE=20 ENQUIRER. But did not Christ himself pray and recommend prayer?=20=20 THEOSOPHIST. It is so recorded, but those "prayers" are precisely of that k= ind of communion just mentioned with one's "Father in [72] secret." Otherwi= se, and if we identify Jesus with the universal deity, there would be somet= hing too absurdly illogical in the inevitable conclusion that he, the "very= God himself" prayed to himself, and separated the will of that God from hi= s own!=20=20 ENQUIRER. One argument more; an argument, moreover, much used by some Chris= tians. They say, "I feel that I am not able to conquer any passions and wea= knesses in my own strength. But when I pray to Jesus Christ I feel that he = gives me strength and that in His power I am able to conquer."=20=20 THEOSOPHIST. No wonder. If "Christ Jesus" is God, and one independent and s= eparate from him who prays, of course everything is, and must be possible t= o "a mighty God." But, then, where's the merit, or justice either, of such = a conquest? Why should the pseudo-conqueror be rewarded for something done = which has cost him only prayers? Would you, even a simple mortal man, pay y= our labourer a full day's wage if you did most of his work for him, he sitt= ing under an apple tree, and praying to you to do so, all the while? This i= dea of passing one's whole life in moral idleness, and having one's hardest= work and duty done by another=E2=80=95 whether God or man=E2=80=95 is most= revolting to us, as it is most degrading to human dignity.=20=20 ENQUIRER. Perhaps so, yet it is the idea of trusting in a personal Saviour = to help and strengthen in the battle of life, which is the fundamental idea= of modern Christianity. And there is no doubt that, subjectively, such bel= ief is efficacious; i. e., that those who believe do feel themselves helped= and strengthened.=20=20 THEOSOPHIST. Nor is there any more doubt, that some patients of "Christian"= and "Mental Scientists"=E2=80=95 the great [73] =E2=80=9CDeniers=E2=80=9D = *=E2=80=95are also sometimes cured; nor that hypnotism, and suggestion, psy= chology, and even mediumship, will produce such results, as often, if not o= ftener. You take into consideration, and string on the thread of your argum= ent, successes alone. And how about ten times the number of failures? Surel= y you will not presume to say that failure is unknown even with a sufficien= cy of blind faith, among fanatical Christians?=20=20 ENQUIRER. But how can you explain those cases which are followed by full su= ccess? Where does a Theosophist look to for power to subdue his passions an= d selfishness?=20=20 THEOSOPHIST. To his Higher Self, the divine spirit, or the God in him, and = to his Karma. How long shall we have to repeat over and over again that the= tree is known by its fruit, the nature of the cause by its effects? You sp= eak of subduing passions, and becoming good through and with the help of Go= d or Christ. We ask, where do you find more virtuous, guiltless people, abs= taining from sin and crime, in Christendom or Buddhism=E2=80=95 in Christia= n countries or in heathen lands? Statistics are there to give the answer an= d corroborate our claims. According to the last census in Ceylon and India,= in the comparative table of crimes committed by Christians, Mussulmen, Hin= doos, Eurasians, Buddhists, etc., etc., on two millions of population taken= at random from each, and covering=20 ------------------------------------------------------------ * The new sect of healers, who, by disavowing the existence of anything bu= t spirit, which spirit can neither suffer nor be ill, claim to cure all and= every disease, provided the patient has faith that what he denies can have= no existence. A new form of self-hypnotism. [74] the misdemeanours of seve= ral years, the proportion of crimes committed by the Christian stands as 15= to 4 as against those committed by the Buddhist population. (Vide Lucifer = for April, 1888, p. 147, Art. Christian lecturers on Buddhism.) No Oriental= ist, no historian of any note, or traveler in Buddhist lands, from Bishop B= igandet and Abbe Huc, to Sir William Hunter and every fair-minded official,= will fail to give the palm of virtue to Buddhists before Christians. Yet t= he former (not the true Buddhist Siamese sect, at all events) do not believ= e in either God or a future reward, outside of this earth. They do not pray= , neither priests nor laymen. "Pray!" they would exclaim in wonder, "to who= m, or what?"=20=20 ----------------------------------------------------------- ENQUIRER. Then they are truly Atheists.=20=20 THEOSOPHIST. Most undeniably, but they are also the most virtue-loving and = virtue-keeping men in the whole world. Buddhism says: Respect the religions= of other men and remain true to your own; but Church Christianity, denounc= ing all the gods of other nations as devils, would doom every non-Christian= to eternal perdition.=20=20 ENQUIRER. Does not the Buddhist priesthood do the same?=20=20 THEOSOPHIST. Never. They hold too much to the wise precept found in the DHA= MMAPADA to do so, for they know that, "If any man, whether he be learned or= not, consider himself so great as to despise other men, he is like a blind= man holding a candle -- blind himself, he illumines others." Key, 66 =E2=80=93 74 =E2=80=9CFor Karma in its effects is an unfailing redresser of human injust= ice, and of all the failures of nature; a stern adjuster of wrongs; a retri= butive law which rewards and punishes with equal impartiality. It is, in th= e strictest sense, "no respecter of persons," though, on the other hand, it= can neither be propitiated, nor turned aside by prayer. This is a belief c= ommon to Hindus and Buddhists, who both believe in Karma. =E2=80=9C Key,= p. 198 "The doctrine of the [Japanese Buddhist] sect is also called by them "the D= octrine of the Pure Land." The pure land referred to is the Land of Amida B= uddha [Amitabha]: the object is to be born into that land, that is, to obta= in salvation. It has been other wise stated in this manner: "Among those who follow the doctrine of the Pure Land, there are several di= fferent systems of teaching, which are as follows: - 'Some say that we shou= ld practise various good works, bring our stock of merits to maturity, and = be born in the Pure Land. Others say that we should repeat only the name of= Amitabha Buddha in order to be born in his Pure Land, by the merit produce= d from such repetition.' These doctrines are all considered as yet the temp= orary expedients. To rely upon the power of the original prayer of Amitabha= Buddha with the whole heart and give up all idea of Ji-Riki or 'self-power= ' is called the truth. This truth is the doctrine of this sect." (2) The eighteenth of the forty-eight prayers of Amita Buddha is the prayer ref= erred to. It is:=20 "If any of living beings of the ten regions who have believed in me with tr= ue thoughts and desire to be born in my country, and have even to ten times= repeated the thought of my name, should not be born there, then may I not = obtain the perfect knowledge."=20 This prayer was made by him because of his great desire to deliver all bein= gs from suffering. It was a prayer which he first uttered long before he hi= mself obtained salvation, but he continued for ages after that to work to t= he end that he might be able to make the prayer of force and value to any o= ne who should use it. It follows, of course, that he accomplished his desir= e, and the Shin-Shiu sect accordingly claims that this prayer or vow has a = peculiar effect of its own, and has strength to enable whoever uses it to r= each salvation. [see Pledge of Kwan Yin ( GITA NOTES, p. 152 )=20=20 =E2=80=9CNever shall I seek nor receive private individual salvation.=20=20 Never shall I enter into final peace alone.=20=20 But forever and everywhere shall I live and strive=20 for the redemption of every creature throughout the world.=E2=80=9D ] The claims made for this prayer are in accordance with certain views that a= re held in the East about the force that resides in the vows of a wise or g= reat saint. They are said to have an actual dynamic effect upon the minds a= nd hearts of all persons who shall use them, even after the saint has died.= It is claimed that the power has to do with magnetism. And it is said by t= he followers of Shin-Shiu that, when one begins to repeat and rely upon the= prayer of Amita Buddha, he at once connects himself with the whole body of= real believers, and as well with the power of Amita himself. In its essence the doctrine is one of salvation by faith, but at the same t= ime the sect does not claim - as the Christian does for his dogma - that th= ere is no other way to be saved.=20 They admit that a person may be saved "by his own power"- if he has the req= uisite strength to hold out -, but they think that in general men have not = the power to resist evil for a time sufficient to permit the accomplishment= of the result; and they assert that besides the lack of strength there wil= l be doubt, for, "Faith by one's own power cannot afford rest to the heart.= It is said, 'Shall I surely attain salvation or shall I not?' and thus wha= t is called faith is in reality doubt," but "Faith by the power of another = affords rest to the heart. It is said -: 'I am born by the power of that vo= w; I shall certainly attain salvation.' There is not the smallest doubt in = the heart." Another Sutra says: "Those who follow the method of 'self power= ' believe in many other Buddhas; those who follow the method of 'another's = power' believe only in the one Buddha, as a faithful servant does not serve= two masters."=09 W Q J Art Vol. 1 pp. 279-280 Best wishes, Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: Roberto N. Lupercio [mailto:rflupercio@earthlink.net]=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 12:38 PM To:=20 Subject: Re: Lord's Prayer Here are some answers to those who would pray.: =20 Q. Does the hierarchy of Dhyanis, whose province it is to watch over a Roun= d, watch during its period of activity, over the whole series of globes, or= only over a particular globe? =09=20=20=20 A. There are incarnating and there are watching Dhyanis. Of the functio= ns of the former you have just been told; the latter appear to do their wor= k in this wise. Every class or hierarchy corresponds to one of the Rounds, = the first and lowest hierarchy to the first and less developed Round, the s= econd to the second, and so on till the seventh Round is reached, which is = under the supervision of the highest Hierarchy of the Seven Dhyanis. At the= last, they will appear on earth, as also will some of the Planetary, for t= he whole humanity will have become Bodhisattvas, their own "sons," i. e., t= he "Sons" of their own Spirit and Essence or--themselves. Thus there is onl= y a functional difference between the Dhyanis and the Planetary. The one ar= e entirely divine, the other sidereal. The former only are called Anupadaka= , parentless, because they radiated directly from that which is neither Fat= her nor Mother but the un-manifested Logos. They are, in fact, the spiritua= l aspect of the seven Logoi; and the Planetary Spirits are in their totalit= y, as the seven Sephiroth (the three higher being super-cosmic abstractions= and blinds in the Kabala), and constitute the Heavenly man, or Adam Kadmon= ; Dhyani is a generic name in Buddhism, an abbreviation for all the gods. Y= et it must be ever remembered that though they are "gods," still they are n= ot to be worshipped. =09 Q. Why not, if they are gods? =09=20=20=20 A. Because Eastern philosophy rejects the idea of a personal and extra-= cosmic deity. And to those who call this atheism, I would say the following= . It is illogical to worship one such god, for, as said in the Bible, "Ther= e be Lords many and Gods many." Therefore, if worship is desirable, we have= to choose either the worship of many gods, each being no better or less li= mited than the other, viz., polytheism and idolatry, or choose, as the Isra= elites have done, one tribal or racial god from among them, and while belie= ving in the existence of many gods, ignore and show contempt for the others= , regarding our own as the highest and the "God of Gods." But this is logic= ally unwarrantable, for such a god can be neither infinite nor absolute, bu= t must be finite, that is to say, limited and conditioned by space and time= . With the Pralaya the tribal god disappears, and Brahm=C3=A2 and all the o= ther Devas, and the gods are merged into the Absolute. Therefore, occultist= s do not worship or offer prayers to them, because if we did, we should hav= e either to worship many gods, or pray to the Absolute, which, having no at= tributes, can have no ears to hear us. The worshipper even of many gods mus= t of necessity be unjust to all the other gods; however far he extends his = worship it is simply impossible for him to worship each severally; and in h= is ignorance, if he choose out any one in particular, he may by no means se= lect the most perfect. Therefore, he would do better far to re-member that = every man has a god within, a direct ray from the Absolute, the celestial r= ay from the One; that he has his "god" within, not outside, of himself. TRANSACTIONS OF THE BLAVATSKY LODGE p. 51 From dalval14@earthlink.net Fri Jan 06 05:38:45 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85002 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 13:38:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 13:38:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.69) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 13:38:43 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Eurnl-0001ZJ-7f; Fri, 06 Jan 2006 08:38:41 -0500 To: Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 05:38:23 -0800 Message-ID: <004c01c612c6$7b2ba400$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79af3c1882002494f41a2cac5508791fa9350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.69 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: Re: REINCARNATION X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=DlhdLhnZv3b5Acxca2A9NSuxr5CuiqsoVW99RFvgvaoccw X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 MYSTERIES OF THE AFTER LIFE H. P. Blavatsky CONSTITUTION OF THE INNER MAN=20 M. Of course it is most difficult, and, as you say, "puzzling" to understan= d correctly and distinguish between the various aspects, called by us the "principles" of the real EGO. ...=20=20=20 X. Are you thinking of the Vedantins. They divide our seven "principles" into five only, I believe?=20 M. ... Then there is the Taraka Raja Yoga School. [S D I 157] Its teaching recognizes only three "principles" in fact; but then, in reality, their Sthulopadhi, or the physical body in its jagrata or waking conscious state, their Sukshmopadhi, the same body in svapna or the dreaming state, and their Karanopadhi or "causal body," or that which passes from one incarnation to another, are all dual in their aspects, and thus make six. Add to this Atma, the impersonal divine principle or the immortal element i= n Man, undistinguished from the Universal Spirit, and you have the same seven= , again, as in the esoteric division. l=20 X. Then it seems almost the same as the division made by mystic Christians: body, soul and spirit?=20 M. Just the same. We could easily make of the body the vehicle of the "vita= l Double"; of the latter the vehicle of Life or Prana; of Kamarupa or (animal= ) soul, the vehicle of the higher and the lower mind, and make of this six principles, crowning the whole with the one immortal spirit.=20 In Occultism, every qualificative change in the state of our consciousness goes to man a new aspect, and if it prevails and becomes part of the living and acting EGO, it must be (and is) given a special name, to distinguish th= e man in that particular state from the man he is when he places himself in another state.=20 X. It is just that which is so difficult to understand.=20 M. It seems to me very easy, on the contrary, once that you have seized the main idea, i.e., that man acts on this, or another plane of consciousness, in strict accordance with his mental and spiritual condition. But such is the materialism of the age that the more we explain, the less people seem capable of understanding what we say.=20 Divide the terrestrial being called man into three chief aspects, if you like; but, unless you make of him a pure animal, you cannot do less. Take his objective body; the feeling principle in him--which is only a little higher than the instinctual element in the animal--or the vital elementary soul; and that which places him so immeasurably beyond and higher than the animal--i.e., his reasoning soul or "spirit."=20 THREE-FOLD SPIRITUAL MAN Well, if we take these three groups or representative entities, and subdivide them, according to the occult teaching, what do we get?=20 First of all SPIRIT (in the sense of the Absolute, and therefore indivisibl= e ALL) or Atma. As this can neither be located nor conditioned in philosophy, being simply that which IS, in Eternity, and as the ALL cannot be absent from even the tiniest geometrical or mathematical point of the universe of matter or substance, it ought not to be called, in truth, a "human" principle at all. Rather, and at best, it is that point in metaphysical Space which the human Monad and its vehicle man, occupy for the period of every life. Now that point is as imaginary as man himself, and in reality i= s an illusion, a maya; but then for ourselves as for other personal Egos, we are a reality during that fit of illusion called life, and we have to take ourselves into account--in our own fancy at any rate if no one else does. T= o make it more conceivable to the human intellect, when first attempting the study of Occultism, and to solve the ABC of the mystery of man,=20 Occultism calls it the seventh principle, the synthesis of the six, and gives it for vehicle the Spiritual Soul, Buddhi. Now the latter conceals a mystery, which is never given to anyone with the exception of irrevocably pledged chelas, those at any rate, who can be safely trusted.=20 Of course there would be less confusion, could it only be told; but, as thi= s is directly concerned with the power of projecting one's double consciously and at will, and as this gift like the "ring of Gyges" might prove very fatal to men at large and to the possessor of that faculty in particular, i= t is carefully guarded. Alone the adepts, who have been tried and can never b= e found wanting, have the key of the mystery fully divulged to them . . . Let us avoid side issues, however, and hold to the "principles."=20 This divine soul or BUDDHI, then, is the Vehicle of the Spirit. In conjunction, these two are one, impersonal, and without any attributes (on this plane, of course), and make two spiritual "principles."=20 If we pass on to the Human Soul (MANAS, the mens) everyone will agree that the intelligence of man is dual to say the least: e.g., the high-minded man can hardly become low-minded; the very intellectual and spiritual-minded ma= n is separated by an abyss from the obtuse, dull and material, if not animal-minded man.=20 Why then should not these men be represented by two "principles" or two aspects rather?=20 Every man has these two principles in him, one more active than the other, and in rare cases, one of these is entirely stunted in its growth; so to sa= y paralysed by the strength and predominance of the other aspect, during the life of man.=20 These, then, are what we call the two principles or aspects of Manas, the higher and the lower; the former, the higher Manas, or the thinking, conscious EGO gravitating toward the Spiritual Soul (Buddhi); and the latter, or its instinctual principle attracted to Kama, the seat of animal desires and passions in man.=20 Thus, we have four "principles" justified; the last three being=20 THREE-FOLD PERSONAL MAN (1) the "Double" which we have agreed to call Protean, or Plastic Soul; the vehicle of=20 (2) the life principle; and=20 (3) the physical body.=20 Of course no Physiologist or Biologist will accept these principles, nor ca= n he make head or tail of them. ... X. But the scientific materialists assert that after the death of man nothing remains; that the human body simply disintegrates into its componen= t elements, and that what we call soul is merely a temporary self-consciousness produced as a by-product of organic action, which will evaporate like steam. Is not theirs a strange state of mind?=20 M. Not strange at all, that I see. If they say that self-consciousness ceases with the body, then in their case they simply utter an unconscious prophecy. For once that they are firmly convinced of what they assert, no conscious after-life is possible for them.=20 X. But if human self-consciousness survives death as a rule, why should there be exceptions?=20 M. In the fundamental laws of the spiritual world which are immutable, no exception is possible. But there are rules for those who see, and rules for those who prefer to remain blind.=20 X. Quite so, I understand. It is an aberration of a blind man, who denies the existence of the sun because he does not see it. But after death his spiritual eyes will certainly compel him to see?=20 M. They will not compel him, nor will he see anything. Having persistently denied an after-life during this life, he will be unable to sense it. His spiritual senses having been stunted, they cannot develop after death, and he will remain blind. By insisting that he must see it, you evidently mean one thing and I another.=20 You speak of the spirit from the Spirit, or the flame from the Flame --of Atma in short --and you confuse it with the human soul --Manas. . . .=20 You do not understand me, let me try to make it clear. The whole gist of your question is to know whether, in the case of a downright materialist, the complete loss of self-consciousness and self-perception after death is possible? Isn't it so? I say: It is possible. Because, believing firmly in our Esoteric Doctrine, which refers to the Post-mortem period, or the interval between two lives or births as merely a transitory state, I say:-- Whether that interval between two acts of the illusionary drama of life lasts one year or a million, that post-mortem state may, without any breach of the fundamental law, prove to be just the same state as that of a man wh= o is in a dead swoon.=20 X. But since you have just said that the fundamental laws of the after-deat= h state admit of no exceptions, how can this be?=20 M. Nor do I say now that they admit of exceptions. But the spiritual law of continuity applies only to things which are truly real. .... I will say more: it is sufficient to understand what we mean by Buddh= i and the duality of Manas to have a very clear perception why the materialis= t may not have a self-conscious survival after death: because Manas, in its lower aspect, is the seat of the terrestrial mind, and, therefore, can give only that perception of the Universe which is based on the evidence of that mind, and not on our spiritual vision.=20 It is said in our Esoteric school that between Buddhi and Manas, or Iswara and Pragna, 2 there is in reality no more difference than between a forest and its trees, a lake and its waters, just as Mundakya teaches. One or hundreds of trees dead from loss of vitality, or uprooted, are yet incapabl= e of preventing the forest from being still a forest.=20 The destruction or post-mortem death of one personality dropped out of the long series, will not cause the smallest change in the Spiritual divine Ego= , and it will ever remain the same EGO. Only, instead of experiencing Devacha= n it will have to immediately reincarnate.=20 X. But as I understand it, Ego-Buddhi represents in this simile the forest and the personal minds the trees. And if Buddhi is immortal, how can that which is similar to it, i.e., Manas-taijasi, 3 lose entirely its consciousness till the day of its new incarnation? I cannot understand it.= =20 M. You cannot, because you will mix up an abstract representation of the whole with its casual changes of form; and because you confuse Manas-taijasi, the Buddhi-lit human soul, with the latter, animalized.=20 Remember that if it can be said of BUDDHI THAT IT IS UNCONDITIONALLY IMMORTAL, the same cannot be said of Manas, still less of taijasi, which is an attribute.=20 No post-mortem consciousness or Manas-Taijasi, can exist apart from Buddhi, the divine soul, because the first (Manas) is, in its lower aspect, a qualificative attribute of the terrestrial personality, and the second (taijasi) is identical with the first, and that it is the same Manas only with the light of Buddhi reflected on it. [see Key, p.135-6, 159]=20 In its turn, Buddhi would remain only an impersonal spirit without this element which it borrows from the human soul, which conditions and makes of it, in this illusive Universe, as it were something separate from the universal soul for the whole period of the cycle of incarnation. [see S D = I 174-5 footnote on the Monad] Say rather that BUDDHI-MANAS CAN NEITHER DIE NOR LOSE ITS COMPOUND SELF-CONSCIOUSNESS IN ETERNITY, nor the recollection of its previous incarnations in which the two--i.e., the spiritual and the human soul, had been closely linked together. [ see H P B Articles III, p. 265; S D I 131]=20 But it is not so in the case of a materialist, whose human soul not only receives nothing from the divine soul, but even refuses to recognize its existence. You can hardly apply this axiom to the attributes and qualifications of the human soul, for it would be like saying that because your divine soul is immortal, therefore the bloom on your cheek must also b= e immortal; whereas this bloom, like taijasi, or spiritual radiance, is simpl= y a transitory phenomenon.=20 X. Do I understand you to say that we must not mix in our minds the noumeno= n with the phenomenon, the cause with its effect?=20 M. I do say so, and repeat that, limited to Manas or the human soul alone, the radiance of Taijasi itself becomes a mere question of time; because bot= h immortality and consciousness after death become for the terrestrial personality of man simply conditioned attributes, as they depend entirely o= n conditions and beliefs created by the human soul itself during the life of its body. Karma acts incessantly; we reap in our after-life only the fruit of that which we have ourselves sown, or rather created, in our terrestrial existence.=20 X. But if my Ego can, after the destruction of my body, become plunged in a state of entire unconsciousness, then where can be the punishment for the sins of my past life?=20 M. Our philosophy teaches that Karmic punishment reaches the Ego only in th= e next incarnation.=20 After death it receives only the reward for the unmerited sufferings endure= d during its just past existence. 4=20 The whole punishment after death, even for the materialist, consists therefore in the absence of any reward and the utter loss of the consciousness of one's bliss and rest. Karma--is the child of the terrestrial Ego, the fruit of the actions of the tree which is the objectiv= e personality visible to all, as much as the fruit of all the thoughts and even motives of the spiritual "I"; but Karma is also the tender mother, who heals the wounds inflicted by her during the preceding life, before she wil= l begin to torture this Ego by inflicting upon him new ones.=20 If it may be said that there is not a mental or physical suffering in the life of a mortal, which is not the fruit and consequence of some sin in this, or a preceding existence, on the other hand, since he does not preserve the slightest recollection of it in his actual life, and feels himself not deserving of such punishment, but believes sincerely he suffers for no guilt of his own, this alone is quite sufficient to entitle the huma= n soul to the fullest consolation, rest and bliss in his post-mortem existence.=20 DEATH COMES TO OUR SPIRITUAL SELVES EVER AS A DELIVERER AND FRIEND.=20 For the materialist, who, notwithstanding his materialism, was not a bad man, the interval between the two lives will be like the unbroken and placi= d sleep of a child; either entirely dreamless, or with pictures of which he will have no definite perception. For the believer it will be a dream as vivid as life and full of realistic bliss and visions. As for the bad and cruel man, whether materialist or otherwise, he will be immediately reborn and suffer his hell on earth. [see Key, pp. 103-4] ....=20 X. As far as I remember, the periodical incarnations of Sutratma 5 [see Key= , pp. 163, 168-70] are likened in some Upanishad to the life of a mortal which oscillates periodically between sleep and waking. This does not seem to me very clear, and I will tell you why.=20 For the man who awakes, another day commences, but that man is the same in soul and body as he was the day before; whereas at every new incarnation a full change takes place not only in his external envelope, sex and personality, but even in his mental and psychic capacities. Thus the simile does not seem to me quite correct. The man who arises from sleep remembers quite clearly what he has done yesterday, the day before, and even months and years ago. But none of us has the slightest recollection of a preceding life or any fact or event concerning it. . . .=20 M. Yet some people do recollect their past incarnations. This is what the Arhats call Samma-Sambuddha--or the knowledge of the whole series of one's past incarnations.=20 X. But we ordinary mortals who have not reached Samma-Sambuddha, how can we be expected to realize this simile?=20 M. By studying it and trying to understand more correctly the characteristics of the three states of sleep. Sleep is a general and immutable law for man as for beast, but there are different kinds of sleep and still more different dreams and visions.=20 X. Just so. But this takes us from our subject. Let us return to the materialist who, while not denying dreams, which he could hardly do, yet denies immortality in general and the survival of his own individuality especially.=20 M. And the materialist is right for once, at least; since for one who has n= o inner perception and faith, there is no immortality possible.=20 In order to live in the world to come a conscious life, one has to believe first of all in that life during one's terrestrial existence. On these two aphorisms of the Secret Science all the philosophy about the post-mortem consciousness and the immortality of the soul is built.=20 The Ego receives always according to its deserts.=20 After the dissolution of the body, there commences for it either a period o= f full clear consciousness, a state of chaotic dreams, or an utterly dreamles= s sleep indistinguishable from annihilation; and these are the three states o= f consciousness. Our physiologists find the cause of dreams and visions in an unconscious preparation for them during the waking hours; why cannot the same be admitted for the post-mortem dreams?=20 I repeat it, DEATH IS SLEEP.=20 After death begins, before the spiritual eyes of the soul, a performance according to a programme learnt and very often composed unconsciously by ourselves; the practical carrying out of correct beliefs or of illusions which have been created by ourselves. A Methodist, will be Methodist, a Mussulman, a Mussulman, of course, just for a time--in a perfect fool's paradise of each man's creation and making These are the post-mortem fruits of the tree of life.=20 Naturally, our belief or unbelief in the fact of conscious immortality is unable to influence the unconditioned reality of the fact itself, once that it exists; but the belief or unbelief in that immortality, as the continuation or annihilation of separate entities, cannot fail to give colour to that fact in its application to each of these entities. Now do yo= u begin to understand it?=20 X. I think I do. The materialist, disbelieving in everything that cannot be proven to him by his five senses or by scientific reasoning, and rejecting every spiritual manifestation, accepts life as the only conscious existence= . Therefore, according to their beliefs so will it be unto them. They will lose their personal Ego, and will plunge into a dreamless sleep until a new awakening. Is it so?=20 M. Almost so. Remember the universal esoteric teaching of the two kinds of conscious existence: the terrestrial and the spiritual. The latter must be considered real from the very fact that it is the region of the eternal, changeless, immortal cause of all; whereas the incarnating Ego dresses itself up in new garments entirely different from those of its previous incarnations, and in which all except its spiritual prototype is doomed to = a change so radical as to leave no trace behind.=20 X. Stop! . . . Can the consciousness of my terrestrial Egos perish not only for a time, like the consciousness of the materialist, but in any case so entirely as to leave no trace behind?=20 M. According to the teaching, it must so perish and in its fullness, all except that principle which, having united itself with the Monad, has thereby become a purely spiritual and indestructible essence, one with it i= n the Eternity. But in the case of an out and out materialist, in whose personal "I" no Buddhi has ever reflected itself, how can the latter carry away into the infinitudes one particle of that terrestrial personality? You= r spiritual "I" is immortal; but from your present Self it can carry away int= o after life but that which has become worthy of immortality, namely, the aroma alone of the flower that has been mown by death.=20 X. Well, and the flower, the terrestrial "I"?=20 M. The flower, as all past and future flowers which blossomed and died, and will blossom again on the mother bough, the Sutratma, all children of one root of Buddhi, will return to dust. Your present "I," as you yourself know= , is not the body now sitting before me, nor yet is it what I would call Manas-Sutratma--but Sutratma Buddhi.=20 X. But this does not explain to me at all, why you call life after death immortal, infinite, and real, and the terrestrial life a simple phantom or illusion; since even that post-mortem life has limits, however much wider they may be than those of terrestrial life.=20 M. No doubt. THE SPIRITUAL EGO OF MAN MOVES IN ETERNITY like a pendulum between the hours of life and death. But if these hours marking the periods of terrestrial and spiritual life are limited in their duration, and if the very number of such stages in Eternity between sleep and awakening, illusio= n and reality, has its beginning and its end, on the other hand the spiritual "Pilgrim" is eternal. Therefore are the hours of his post-mortem life--when, disembodied he stands face to face with truth and not the mirages of his transitory earthl= y existences during the period of that pilgrimage which we call "the cycle of rebirths"--the only reality in our conception. Such intervals, their limitation not withstanding, do not prevent the Ego, while=20 EVER PERFECTING ITSELF, TO BE FOLLOWING UNDEVIATINGLY, THOUGH GRADUALLY AND SLOWLY, THE PATH TO ITS LAST TRANSFORMATION, WHEN THAT EGO HAVING REACHED ITS GOAL BECOMES THE DIVINE ALL.=20 These intervals and stages help towards this final result instead of hindering it; and without such limited intervals the divine Ego could never reach its ultimate goal. This Ego is the actor, and its numerous and variou= s incarnations the parts it plays. Shall you call these parts with their costumes the individuality of the actor himself?=20 Like that actor, the Ego is forced to play during the Cycle of Necessity up to the very threshold of Para-nirvana, many parts such as may be unpleasant to it. But as the bee collects its honey from every flower, leaving the res= t as food for the earthly worms, so does our spiritual individuality, whether we call it Sutratma or Ego. It collects from every terrestrial personality into which Karma forces it to incarnate, the nectar alone of the spiritual qualities and self-consciousness, and uniting all these into one whole it emerges from it= s chrysalis as the glorified Dhyan Chohan. So much the worse for those terrestrial personalities from which it could collect nothing. Such personalities cannot assuredly outlive consciously their terrestrial existence.=20 X. Thus then it seems, that for the terrestrial personality, immortality is still conditional. Is then immortality itself not unconditional?=20 M. Not at all. But it cannot touch the non-existent. For all that which exists as SAT, ever aspiring to SAT, immortality and Eternity are absolute. Matter is the opposite pole of spirit and yet the two are one. The essence of all this, i.e., Spirit, Force and Matter, or the three in one, is as endless as it is beginningless; but the form acquired by this triple unity during its incarnations, the externality, is certainly only the illusion of our personal conceptions. Therefore do we call the after-life alone a reality, while relegating the terrestrial life, its terrestrial personality included, to the phantom realm of illusion.=20 X. But why in such a case not call sleep the reality, and waking the illusion, instead of the reverse?=20 M. Because we use an expression made to facilitate the grasping of the subject, and from the standpoint of terrestrial conceptions it is a very correct one.=20 X. Nevertheless, I cannot understand. If the life to come is based on justice and the merited retribution for all our terrestrial suffering, how, in the case of materialists many of whom are ideally honest and charitable men, should there remain of their personality nothing but the refuse of a faded flower!=20 M. No one ever said such a thing. No materialist, if a good man, however unbelieving, can die forever in the fullness of his spiritual individuality= . What was said is, that the consciousness of one life can disappear either fully or partially; in the case of a thorough materialist, no vestige of that personality which disbelieved remains in the series of lives.=20 X. But is this not annihilation to the Ego?=20 M. Certainly not. One can sleep a dead sleep during a long railway journey, miss one or several stations without the slightest recollection or consciousness of it, awake at another station and continue the journey recollecting other halting places, till the end of that journey, when the goal is reached. Three kinds of sleep were mentioned to you: the dreamless, the chaotic, and the one so real, that to the sleeping man his dreams becom= e full realities. If you believe in the latter why can't you believe in the former? According to what one has believed in and expected after death, suc= h is the state one will have. He who expected no life to come will have an absolute blank amounting to annihilation in the interval between the two rebirths. This is just the carrying out of the programme we spoke of, and which is created by the materialist himself. But there are various kinds of materialists, as you say.=20 A selfish wicked Egoist, one who never shed a tear for anyone but himself, thus adding entire indifference the whole world to his unbelief, must drop at the threshold of death his personality forever. This personality having no tendrils of sympathy for the world around, and hence nothing to hook on to the string of the Sutratma, every connection between the two is broken with last breath.=20 There being no Devachan for such a materialists, the Sutratma will re-incarnate almost immediately. But those materialists who erred in nothin= g but their disbelief, will oversleep but one station. Moreover, the time wil= l come when the ex-material perceive himself in the Eternity and perhaps repent that he lost even one day, or station, from the life eternal.=20 X. Still would it not be more correct to say that death is birth new Life o= r a return once more to the threshold of eternity?=20 M. You may if you like. Only remember that births differ, and that there ar= e births of "still-born" beings, which are failures. Moreover with your fixed Western ideas about material life, the words "living" and "being" are quite inapplicable to the pure subjective post-mortem existence. It is just because of such ideas--a few philosophers who are not read by the many and who lives are too confused to present a distinct picture of it--that all your conceptions of life and death have finally become so narrow. On the on= e hand, they have led to crass materialism, and on the to the still more material conception of the other life which ritualists have formulated in their Summer-land. There the souls of men eat, drink and marry, and live in a Paradise quite as sensual as that of Mohammed, but even less philosophical. Nor are average conceptions of the uneducated Christians any better, they are still more material, if possible. What between truncated Angels, brass trumpets, golden harps, streets in paradisiacal cities with jewels, and hell-fires, it seems like a scene at a Christmas pantomime. It is because of these narrow conceptions that you such difficulty in understanding. And, it is also just because the life of the disembodied soul, while possessing all the vividness of reality, as in certain dreams, is devoid of every grossly objective form of terrestrial life, that the Eastern philosophers have compared it with visions during sleep.=20 Lucifer, January, 1889=20 =20 ------------------------ Footnotes -------------------------------------- 1 See "Secret Doctrine" for a clearer explanation. =20 2 Iswara is the collective consciousness of the manifested deity, Brahm=E2, i.e., the collective consciousness of the Host of Dhyan Chohans; and Pragna is their individual wisdom.=20 =20 3 Taijasi means the radiant in consequence of the union with Buddhi of Manas, the human, illuminated by the radiance of the divine soul. Therefore Manas-taijasi may be described as radiant mind; the human reason lit by the light of the spirit; and Buddhi-Manas is the representation of the divine plus the human intellect and self-consciousness.=20 =20 4 Some Theosophists have taken exception to this phrase, but the words are those of the Masters, and the meaning attached to the word "unmerited" is that given above. In the T.P.S. pamphlet No. 6, a phrase, criticised subsequently in Lucifer was used, which was intended to convey the same idea. In form however it was awkward and open to the criticism directed against it; but the essential idea was that men often suffer from the effects of the actions done by others, effects which thus do not strictly belong to their own Karma, but to that of other people--and for these sufferings they of course deserve compensation. If it is true to say that nothing that happens to us can be anything else than Karma--or the direct o= r indirect effect of a cause--it would be a great error to think that every evil or good which befalls us is due only to our personal Karma. (Vide further on.) =20 5 Our immortal and reincarnating principle in conjunction with the Manasic recollections of the preceding lives is called Sutratma, which means literally the Thread-Soul; because like the pearls on a thread so is the long series of human lives strung together on that one thread. Manas must become taijasi, the radiant, before it can hang on the Sutratma as a pearl on its thread, and so have full and absolute perception of itself in the Eternity. As said before, too close association with the terrestrial mind of the human soul alone causes the radiance to be entirely lost. ---------------------------------------------------- Best wishes,=20 Dallas =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: perbain Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 4:08 PM To:=20 Subject:=20 Re: REINCARNATION I do not understand a thing about what I just read on "More on Reincarnation",=20 but found it very interesting. I am trying to learn, therefore, please=20 continue me on your mailing list. I do understand reincarnation, but am=20 ignorant to India sad as that is. Thank you, Debra=20 From compiler@wisdomworld.org Fri Jan 06 05:40:04 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: compiler@wisdomworld.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 63910 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 13:40:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 13:40:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ams003.ftl.affinity.com) (216.219.253.136) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 13:40:01 -0000 Received: from [68.33.22.128] ([68.33.22.128]:37894 "EHLO wisdomworld.org") by ams003.ftl.affinity.com with ESMTP id S361317AbWAFNjs (ORCPT ); Fri, 6 Jan 2006 08:39:48 -0500 Message-ID: <43BE8157.B7C416F7@wisdomworld.org> Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 08:40:22 -0600 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 216.219.253.136 From: Compiler Subject: 24 articles about JESUS in the "LIGHT OF THEOSOPHY" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=46028585; y=HVpl2LMxCaaLa9OtZ8zCI25hhWy_zTJcjIn0iO9N23lgbQlX7PaG X-Yahoo-Profile: john_compiler_wisdomworld Since Jesus is a topic of discussion here at this time, I thought it useful to again offer these articles about him that I posted here back on June 24, 2005. [Note: Because many of the URL links are long, just in case you find any of them broken, each long one is followed by a "tiny" one.] ================================ Subject: [Theos-World] 24 articles about JESUS in the "LIGHT OF THEOSOPHY" ================================ Based on some of the discussions currently going on here at theos-talk, I hope that many readers, especially newcomers to theosophy, will find this collection of articles about JESUS, all presented in the bright and profound "Light of Theosophy", to be very informative and useful and that they will greatly add to the various views that people everywhere have about him -- giving much food-for-thought for everyone to ponder over, concerning what he was all about. All of the articles are from THEOSOPHY magazine, and are on my WisdomWorld.org web site. These 1st two articles are taken from the 166-article "Setting the Stage" Introductory book. They are the 2nd and 3rd articles in the 29-part "GREAT THEOSOPHISTS" series that runs from article number 130 to 158 in the book. This is the link to the index page where you can see the titles of all 166 articles in the book. They are numbers (131) and (132): http://www.wisdomworld.org/setting.html If you don't want to scroll down the Index page to get to them, these are their direct links: (131) Great Theosophists: Jesus, the Christ (Part 1 of 2): http://www.wisdomworld.org/setting/jesusone.html (132) Great Theosophists: Jesus, the Christ (Part 2 of 2): http://www.wisdomworld.org/setting/jesustwo.html ======================================== These next 6 articles about Jesus are from THE CHRISTIAN SCHEME, 36-part series. They are numbers 11, 21, 22, 23, 24, and 25 in it -- followed by a 7th article here which is an additional article that follows the series, and is number (37). If for some reason the links to them are broken because of their length, this shorter link is to the 5th of 18 sections on the "Additional" articles Index page that is entitled "CHRISTIANITY IN THE 'LIGHT OF THEOSOPHY'". The link to the series is the 1st one that's listed in it: http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/index.html#5 If you don't want to scroll down the Index page to get to them, and they are not broken here, these are their direct links: (11) GNOSIS AND CHRISTIANITY: Jesus-Logos-Christos: http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/christianity/Jesus-Logos-Christos.html http://tinyurl.com/a3tz7 (21) JESUS: A True Nazarene: http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/christianity/Jesus-ATrueNazarene.html http://tinyurl.com/39s4d (22) JESUS: A Great Reformer: http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/christianity/Jesus-AGreatReformer.html http://tinyurl.com/2kvw4 (23) JESUS: Various Views: http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/christianity/Jesus-VariousViews.html http://tinyurl.com/37ztw (24) JESUS: Was He Unique?: http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/christianity/Jesus-WasHeUnique.html http://tinyurl.com/yrwdg (25) JESUS: Buddha, Jesus, Apollonius: http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/christianity/JesusBuddhaApollonius.html http://tinyurl.com/3dyeq This next one is the "additional" article. It's about the first of the so-called Christian "heresies". It's all about the physical death of Jesus and his physical resurrection: (37) THE DOCETAE: http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/christianity/TheDocetae.html http://tinyurl.com/359mz ====================================== These next articles about Jesus are a 12-part series that is entitled: JESUS: INITIATE AND TEACHER The articles all have the same name and are only numbered under the title. And as with the above 6 articles from "The Christian Scheme" series, it's also found in the 5th of 18 sections on the "Additional" articles Index page that is entitled "CHRISTIANITY IN THE 'LIGHT OF THEOSOPHY'". The link to the series is the 5th one that's listed in it: http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/index.html#5 ================================================== These next 3 articles about Jesus are from the grouping of articles entitled: A LISTING OF 329 COLLATED ARTICLES If for some reason the links are broken because of their length, this shorter link is to the section on the "Additional" articles Index page that is entitled "A Listing of 329 Collated Articles" (it's the 12th of 18 sections on the page). Then click on the only link that's found in it to the alphabetized Index page, and scroll down to the articles which are each listed the way you see the titles just below: http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/index.html#12 If you don't want to scroll down the Index page to get to them, and they are not broken here, these are their direct links: JESUS AND HIS TEACHING: http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/ListOfCollatedArticles/JesusAndHisTeaching.html http://tinyurl.com/33xf4 JESUS: PHILOSOPHER AND REFORMER: http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/ListOfCollatedArticles/JesusPhilosAndReformer.html http://tinyurl.com/3hjtl WHO CRUCIFIES THE CHRIST?: http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/ListOfCollatedArticles/WhoCrucifiesTheChrist.html http://tinyurl.com/2dtpk ================================ Dear newcomers to Theosophy: I sincerely do hope that my web site offers a well-rounded overall view of Theosophy and the Theosophical Movement. The 3 main links to everything on it are found below. Please know that I'm only the compiler of all the articles found on my web site; I'm not a scholar; and also that I personally do not like to take part in conversations, even though I do hope that what I present from time to time will help a little in the discussions being carried on by others. So please do not be insulted when I do not respond if someone addresses me, or addresses anything that is found in any of the articles on my web site; I leave that for others to deal with if they want to -- whether pro, con, neutral, friendly or unfriendly. John DeSantis (Compiler) ------- You may find a great deal of the Truth that you are searching for here: WisdomWorld.org web site (Main Page): http://www.wisdomworld.org This is the Index page of the "Introductory", "Setting the Stage" book, which was especially compiled for newcomers to Theosophy: http://www.wisdomworld.org/setting.html The page where "Additional" articles are slowly being added (which contains 18 sections that can each be clicked on at the top of the page in order to go directly down to them, as well as to get the link to any particular section that you may want to use in a posting on a discussion board, or in an e-mail to someone): http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/index.html "PUBLIC & PRIVATE ENTERPRISE DEVELOPMENT FORUM": This next link is to the most updated version of my economic proposal to humanity, a practical project to help our suffering world that I also consider to be Theosophical. In it you will find a new and unique, but mostly unknown, economic system model that might be able to put an end to involuntary poverty on earth. How? It presents a way to fully finance everything of importance that is needed in every nation. Because of this it's well worth pointing to. Please note that, for strategic reasons, of wanting it to have the best chance of being accepted by all peoples worldwide, no matter what their religious, philosophical, and scientific beliefs are, I've put it on a completely different web site; it contains no mention of, or link to, the Theosophy and the Theosophical Movement that is presented on my WisdomWorld.org web site: http://www.PublicAndPrivateEnterprise.org ------- From kpauljohnson@yahoo.com Fri Jan 06 07:00:06 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: kpauljohnson@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42120 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 15:00:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 15:00:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.35) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 15:00:05 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 14:59:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.69] by mailer6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 14:59:53 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 14:59:52 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20060106191524.e7e2shkehds0w08g@wm2.pacific.net.au> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.35 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 12.43.220.66 From: "kpauljohnson" Subject: The weight of expert opinion (Re: Jesus didn't exist and he lived 100BC!) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=85941729; y=SrwykY5aQVNA4jSzV43o9GWA3Kr8-s56Z9mnbRYvo72Cz6gfxv8K X-Yahoo-Profile: kpauljohnson --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, gregory@z... wrote: > > That anyone in the 21st century would bother to assert that Jesus=20 did not exist > is indeed extraordinary, given the vast weight of scholarship (as=20 opposed to > "psychic revelation") that has been devoted to this question!=20 Scholars who are > agnostics, humanists or atheists have reached the conclusion that=20 his existence > is a simple matter of historical fact. >=20 This brings to mind a quote from Raymond Martin's The Elusive Messiah: Our amateur status does not mean, however, that we cannot ever pass=20 judgment on the views of New Testament scholars. In certain cases, we=20 may be able to see better than a historian that he or she is in the=20 grip of a distorting theory, Even so, we must give expertise its due.=20 In my view, when it comes to trying to decide what to believe on the=20 basis of historical evidence alone, the distinction between experts=20 and amateurs is crucially important. Roughly speaking, the rule for=20 experts is this: Base your views directly on the primary evidence;=20 although the opinions of other experts cannot be ignored, you can=20 override their opinions by your own reading of the evidence. The rule=20 for amateurs, on the other hand, is this: Base your beliefs mainly on=20 the views of the experts, if a sizeable majority of the experts agree=20 among themselves, then accept what they say; if they disagree, then=20 suspend judgment.(p. 24-25) The existence of Jesus is, as noted by Dr. Tillett, a matter of near- universal agreement among NT scholars. So is the falsity of the=20 birth narrative tales in the gospels. So those are two areas where=20 as a non-expert following Martin's advice we should accept expert=20 consensus. Ditto for the chronology.=20=20 Following up Adelasie's question last week about my view of=20 evolution, I will say that Martin's advice applies to the hard=20 sciences as well. As a non-expert in the life sciences, all I can do=20 is accept the conclusions that are near-universal among experts and=20 suspend judgment on matters of ongoing controversy among experts. Of course it can be comfortable and ego-enhancing to claim to know=20 better than the experts on the basis of psychic revelations or sacred=20 texts. But that is not in the spirit of the theosophical enterprise=20 as defined by the Founders, however much it might have become a=20 prevalent attitude of Theosophists in the 20th and 21st centuries. Paul From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Fri Jan 06 08:41:11 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19697 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 16:41:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 16:41:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.226) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 16:41:10 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n6.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 16:41:04 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by mailer1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 16:41:04 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by mailer4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 16:41:04 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 16:41:02 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20060106191524.e7e2shkehds0w08g@wm2.pacific.net.au> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 216.155.203.226 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: Gregory Tillett on ---- Re: Jesus didn't exist and he lived 100BC! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=p9ix-y6MT4FknYECpGi88kDLQMznv4f5IEllRZZ5wPaTtl7Z_jNQ33Ve X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Gregory, Your posting below is quite informative but my correspondent was, I believe, more interested in comparing the evidence for Jesus as compared to Morya. So I repeat again the questions: Is there more evidence to support the existence of Jesus than of Morya or vice versa? What is the evidence for the existence of Jesus? What is the evidence for the existence of Morya? What is the quality of the evidence, the amount of evidence for Jesus as compared to Morya? Primary sources, secondary sources and accounts for Jesus as compared to Morya? Eyewitness accounts versus third hand accounts for Jesus as compared to Morya? ******In other words, if one used the standards of evidence, etc. used to assess the existence of Jesus to assess the existence of Morya, what would be the conclusion? Gregory, it would interesting to hear your views on this. Daniel http://hpb.cc Daniel http://hpb.cc =20 --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, gregory@z... wrote: > > (1) Did Jesus exist? >=20 > This is not the same as "Was Jesus the Son of God?" or some such=20 question. It is > simply a question for the historian (as are questions like "Did=20 Socrates exist?" > or "Did Herod exist?"). >=20 > That anyone in the 21st century would bother to assert that Jesus=20 did not exist > is indeed extraordinary, given the vast weight of scholarship (as=20 opposed to > "psychic revelation") that has been devoted to this question!=20 Scholars who are > agnostics, humanists or atheists have reached the conclusion that=20 his existence > is a simple matter of historical fact. >=20 > For those whose intellects can't face the burden of serious=20 scholarship on the > subject, a good, basic introduction (written from a distinctly non- or even > anti-Christian point of view) is Ian Wilson's "Jesus. The=20 Evidence" [Weidenfeld > and Nicolson, London, 1984]. >=20 > (2) Did Jesus live 100BC (or BCE) ? >=20 > Although this claim is put forward by Blavatsky, it was=20 essentially G.R.S.Mead > who promoted it in his endlessly-reprinted "Did Jesus Live 100BC?"=20 (which, it > might be remembered, was based more on Leadbeater's=20 clairvoyant "revelations" > than on anything else, although this is not acknowledged). >=20 > Insofar as Mead attempts to use any "ancient" source, he relies on=20 what he calls > the Toldoth Jeschu. Alas for Mead, and his imitators,=20 this "ancient" source is > at best a mediaeval satire and at worst a mediaeval forgery. >=20 > The Toledot Yeshu ( literally Generations of Yeshu), is the title=20 of several > mediaeval manuscripts containing legends and folktales but are not=20 part of > rabbinic literature and are not considered canonical or normative.=20 The original > text came into being in the 5th century, at the earliest, and more=20 probably (and > according to most scholars) in the 10th century, and subsequently=20 spread, in > Hebrew and Yiddish versions. Jewish scholars do not claim any=20 historical basis > for it, and most critics suggest that it appeared during periods=20 of widespread > persecution of the Jews (for example, the Crusades). The Oxford=20 Dictionary of > Jewish Religion says of it, ".the work is an expression of vulgar=20 polemics > written in reaction to the no less vulgar attacks on Judaism in=20 popular > Christian teaching and writing [of that time]". >=20 > The Toledoth Yeshu blends and blurs the stories of three men who=20 lived from the > second century BC to the second century AD: the late 2nd century=20 BC religious > leader Yeshu Ha Notzri who was executed; an early second century=20 AD Ben Stada > who was alleged to have practiced some form of "sorcery"; and an=20 early first > century AD Ben Pandera whose disciples were healers. >=20 > The Toledoth Yeshu combines stories about of these three men, and=20 others like > the 5th century AD Rabbi Tanhuma Bar Abba, creating what one=20 commentator has > described as "one satirical and cautionary would-be messiah tale". >=20 > There is nothing in the way of a scholarly work supporting Mead's=20 thesis: G. > Nevin Drinkwater, an English Theosophist and Liberal Catholic=20 priest, wrote a > vast (and apparently unpublished) work to "prove" the case. I=20 have a > manuscript of it in my archives. In the light of modern (post- 1975) Biblical > scholarship such a labour seems more a tragic waste of time and=20 energy than > anything else. >=20 > Those who want to argue that either (1) Jesus did not exist, or=20 (2) he lived > (more or less) 100 BC (or BCE) needs to "come up with the goods".=20 Those who > argue that he lived, and around the time traditionally claimed,=20 have produced > vast volumes of heavy research and scholarship. Medieval forgeries=20 and "psychic > revelations" may impress the gullible; that some people are=20 gullible is about > all that proves. >=20 > Dr Gregory Tillett > From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Fri Jan 06 09:29:07 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36198 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 17:29:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 17:29:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.35) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 17:29:06 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 17:27:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.87] by mailer2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 17:27:01 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 17:27:01 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.35 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: Paul on The weight of expert opinion (Re: Jesus didn't exist .... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=oW8LSKqTQw0qrFI5Tjyu6vhRm8X-zMTnB-WFAK0-B8XqFSuqw_havf5M X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Paul, Although you make some good points, I still have certain reservations about [always] accepting the consensus of expert or scholarly opinion. For example, one of the reasons I become interested in the life of H.P. Blavatsky was my early detection of the generally poor scholarship on her life. The experts were less than expert! And years later my own conclusions in this area were confirmed and=20 nice summed up by Dr. James Santucci: "All too often, this subject [Theosophy & Blavatsky], when it is=20 discussed in scholarly circles, is presented in a most unscholarly=20 fashion. Falsehoods are perpetuated and original research is not=20 actively pursued." Another area. I don't know if either Gregory Tillett or you believe in or accept the reality of psi/paranormal phenomena but I ask: should=20 we accept the consensus of expert opinion on this subject? I am somewhat uncertain as to what the current consensus of expert opinion is on this subject! But in the early 1970s it appeared that=20 expert opinion, scholarly, scientific opinion was against the reality of such phenomena. Or to say the least, case not proven. But first of all, who are the experts? Who qualifies as an expert on psi? And do the experts approach this subject with a truly open mind, etc. etc. Dr. Ray Hyman, probably the foremost (at least in the 1980s and=20 early 1990s) scientific skeptic of the paranormal, candidly admitted: ". . . members of the scientific community often judge the=20 parapsychological claims without firsthand knowledge of the=20 experimental evidence. Very few of the scientific critics have=20 examined even one of the many experimental reports on psychic=20 phenomena. Even fewer, if any, have examined the bulk of the=20 parapsychological literature.... Consequently, parapsychologists=20 have justification for their complaint that the scientific community=20 is dismissing their claims without a fair hearing. . . ." Hyman wrote this in 1988 but as far as I can tell it still applies=20 more or less in 2006. So are the "experts" in the scientific community really in a=20 position to judge whether there is such a thing as psi? And should=20 laypersons and amateurs be so willing to accept such expert opinion=20 even if it is the consensus? There are other examples but this will suffice for now. Daniel http://hpb.cc --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "kpauljohnson"=20 wrote: > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, gregory@z... wrote: > > > > That anyone in the 21st century would bother to assert that=20 Jesus=20 > did not exist > > is indeed extraordinary, given the vast weight of scholarship=20 (as=20 > opposed to > > "psychic revelation") that has been devoted to this question!=20 > Scholars who are > > agnostics, humanists or atheists have reached the conclusion=20 that=20 > his existence > > is a simple matter of historical fact. > >=20 >=20 > This brings to mind a quote from Raymond Martin's The Elusive=20 Messiah: >=20 > Our amateur status does not mean, however, that we cannot ever=20 pass=20 > judgment on the views of New Testament scholars. In certain cases,=20 we=20 > may be able to see better than a historian that he or she is in=20 the=20 > grip of a distorting theory, Even so, we must give expertise its=20 due.=20 > In my view, when it comes to trying to decide what to believe on=20 the=20 > basis of historical evidence alone, the distinction between=20 experts=20 > and amateurs is crucially important. Roughly speaking, the rule=20 for=20 > experts is this: Base your views directly on the primary evidence;=20 > although the opinions of other experts cannot be ignored, you can=20 > override their opinions by your own reading of the evidence. The=20 rule=20 > for amateurs, on the other hand, is this: Base your beliefs mainly=20 on=20 > the views of the experts, if a sizeable majority of the experts=20 agree=20 > among themselves, then accept what they say; if they disagree,=20 then=20 > suspend judgment.(p. 24-25) >=20 > The existence of Jesus is, as noted by Dr. Tillett, a matter of=20 near- > universal agreement among NT scholars. So is the falsity of the=20 > birth narrative tales in the gospels. So those are two areas=20 where=20 > as a non-expert following Martin's advice we should accept expert=20 > consensus. Ditto for the chronology.=20=20 >=20 > Following up Adelasie's question last week about my view of=20 > evolution, I will say that Martin's advice applies to the hard=20 > sciences as well. As a non-expert in the life sciences, all I can=20 do=20 > is accept the conclusions that are near-universal among experts=20 and=20 > suspend judgment on matters of ongoing controversy among experts. >=20 > Of course it can be comfortable and ego-enhancing to claim to know=20 > better than the experts on the basis of psychic revelations or=20 sacred=20 > texts. But that is not in the spirit of the theosophical=20 enterprise=20 > as defined by the Founders, however much it might have become a=20 > prevalent attitude of Theosophists in the 20th and 21st centuries. >=20 > Paul > From kpauljohnson@yahoo.com Fri Jan 06 11:00:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: kpauljohnson@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71699 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 19:00:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 19:00:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.37) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 19:00:47 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 18:56:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by mailer7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 18:56:11 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 18:56:09 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.37 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 12.43.220.66 From: "kpauljohnson" Subject: Paul on The weight of expert opinion (Re: Jesus didn't exist .... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=85941729; y=bP2xsWqobueFztzkBL6B7z1hZ576ew_3l1w00LWUzU27FDW_QTKs X-Yahoo-Profile: kpauljohnson Daniel, You suggest very reasonable distinctions between categories of=20 experts and levels of consensus. As best I can discern the=20 *preponderance* of parapsychologists are convinced of the reality of=20 ESP. But is a preponderance a consensus? I'm not sure we can talk=20 of any consensus among parapsychologists about anything in the same=20 way we can about NT scholars or biologists on certain subjects.=20=20 Susan Blackmore is a star in the field, not an isolated outlier, for=20 example. I would agree with your source that we should regard=20 parapsychologists alone as experts on ESP. If we allowed *all*=20 scientists to vote on the reality of ESP there probably would be a=20 strong consensus for "no." But their expertise doesn't extend so far=20 as to justify taking them seriously on a branch of science they=20 haven't studied. How would they like it if unqualified=20 parapsychologists made pronouncements about *their* areas of=20 expertise?=20=20 Martin's approach has its limits, of course. But it's a good=20 starting point IMO, especially regarding a field as disputatious as=20 NT studies.=20 The dissertation you posted a link to yesterday includes an excellent=20 survey of various interpretations of HPB and the Masters. While it=20 is disputable (and disputed) who qualifies as an expert on the=20 subject, the author surely includes all major perspectives and does a=20 fine job of sorting them out. His summary of my books is very fair,=20 balanced, and thorough, and from what I can see this is true of his=20 treatment of other sources. Let's hope he can find a publisher. Paul --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "danielhcaldwell"=20 wrote: > > Paul, >=20 > Although you make some good points, I still have > certain reservations about [always] accepting the consensus > of expert or scholarly opinion. >=20 > For example, one of the reasons I become interested > in the life of H.P. Blavatsky was my early detection > of the generally poor scholarship on her life. The experts > were less than expert! >=20 > And years later my own conclusions in this area were confirmed and=20 > nice summed up by Dr. James Santucci: >=20 > "All too often, this subject [Theosophy & Blavatsky], when it is=20 > discussed in scholarly circles, is presented in a most unscholarly=20 > fashion. Falsehoods are perpetuated and original research is not=20 > actively pursued." >=20 > Another area. >=20 > I don't know if either Gregory Tillett or you believe in > or accept the reality of psi/paranormal phenomena but I ask:=20=20 should=20 > we accept the consensus of expert opinion on this subject? >=20 > I am somewhat uncertain as to what the current consensus > of expert opinion is on this subject! >=20 > But in the early 1970s it appeared that=20 > expert opinion, scholarly, scientific opinion was > against the reality of such phenomena. Or to say the > least, case not proven. >=20 > But first of all, who are the experts? Who qualifies > as an expert on psi? And do the experts approach this > subject with a truly open mind, etc. etc. >=20 > Dr. Ray Hyman, probably the foremost (at least in the 1980s and=20 > early 1990s) scientific skeptic of the paranormal, candidly=20 admitted: >=20 > ". . . members of the scientific community often judge the=20 > parapsychological claims without firsthand knowledge of the=20 > experimental evidence. Very few of the scientific critics have=20 > examined even one of the many experimental reports on psychic=20 > phenomena. Even fewer, if any, have examined the bulk of the=20 > parapsychological literature.... Consequently, parapsychologists=20 > have justification for their complaint that the scientific=20 community=20 > is dismissing their claims without a fair hearing. . . ." >=20 > Hyman wrote this in 1988 but as far as I can tell it still applies=20 > more or less in 2006. >=20 > So are the "experts" in the scientific community really in a=20 > position to judge whether there is such a thing as psi? And should=20 > laypersons and amateurs be so willing to accept such expert opinion=20 > even if it is the consensus? >=20 > There are other examples but this will suffice for now. >=20 > Daniel > http://hpb.cc >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "kpauljohnson"=20 > wrote: > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, gregory@z... wrote: > > > > > > That anyone in the 21st century would bother to assert that=20 > Jesus=20 > > did not exist > > > is indeed extraordinary, given the vast weight of scholarship=20 > (as=20 > > opposed to > > > "psychic revelation") that has been devoted to this question!=20 > > Scholars who are > > > agnostics, humanists or atheists have reached the conclusion=20 > that=20 > > his existence > > > is a simple matter of historical fact. > > >=20 > >=20 > > This brings to mind a quote from Raymond Martin's The Elusive=20 > Messiah: > >=20 > > Our amateur status does not mean, however, that we cannot ever=20 > pass=20 > > judgment on the views of New Testament scholars. In certain=20 cases,=20 > we=20 > > may be able to see better than a historian that he or she is in=20 > the=20 > > grip of a distorting theory, Even so, we must give expertise its=20 > due.=20 > > In my view, when it comes to trying to decide what to believe on=20 > the=20 > > basis of historical evidence alone, the distinction between=20 > experts=20 > > and amateurs is crucially important. Roughly speaking, the rule=20 > for=20 > > experts is this: Base your views directly on the primary=20 evidence;=20 > > although the opinions of other experts cannot be ignored, you can=20 > > override their opinions by your own reading of the evidence. The=20 > rule=20 > > for amateurs, on the other hand, is this: Base your beliefs=20 mainly=20 > on=20 > > the views of the experts, if a sizeable majority of the experts=20 > agree=20 > > among themselves, then accept what they say; if they disagree,=20 > then=20 > > suspend judgment.(p. 24-25) > >=20 > > The existence of Jesus is, as noted by Dr. Tillett, a matter of=20 > near- > > universal agreement among NT scholars. So is the falsity of the=20 > > birth narrative tales in the gospels. So those are two areas=20 > where=20 > > as a non-expert following Martin's advice we should accept expert=20 > > consensus. Ditto for the chronology.=20=20 > >=20 > > Following up Adelasie's question last week about my view of=20 > > evolution, I will say that Martin's advice applies to the hard=20 > > sciences as well. As a non-expert in the life sciences, all I=20 can=20 > do=20 > > is accept the conclusions that are near-universal among experts=20 > and=20 > > suspend judgment on matters of ongoing controversy among experts. > >=20 > > Of course it can be comfortable and ego-enhancing to claim to=20 know=20 > > better than the experts on the basis of psychic revelations or=20 > sacred=20 > > texts. But that is not in the spirit of the theosophical=20 > enterprise=20 > > as defined by the Founders, however much it might have become a=20 > > prevalent attitude of Theosophists in the 20th and 21st centuries. > >=20 > > Paul > > > From adelasie@sbcglobal.net Fri Jan 06 12:26:00 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: adelasie@sbcglobal.net@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53046 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 20:26:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 20:26:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp102.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.201) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 20:25:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 89395 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 20:25:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alphanumeric) (adelasie@sbcglobal.net@63.196.198.26 with login) by smtp102.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 20:25:58 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 12:25:57 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <43BE61D5.23763.28B05085@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <20060106191524.e7e2shkehds0w08g@wm2.pacific.net.au> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Originating-IP: 68.142.198.201 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "adelasie" Subject: Re: Theos-World The weight of expert opinion (Re: Jesus didn't exist and he lived 100BC!) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=161282999 Hi Paul, Happy New Year! I can't resist: > Of course it can be comfortable and ego-enhancing to claim to know > better than the experts on the basis of psychic revelations or sacred > texts. But that is not in the spirit of the theosophical enterprise > as defined by the Founders, however much it might have become a > prevalent attitude of Theosophists in the 20th and 21st centuries. Comfortable and ego-enhancing it may be, or, contrarily, devastatingly humbling, but as I understand it, the founders of Theosophy enjoined erstwhile students to take nobody's word for anything, but to investigate according to their (the students') lights and arrive at conclusions that are satisfactory to them. My personal experience suggests that these personally arrived at conclusions are subject to adjustment, as the years roll by. But one has the comfort, with such conclusions, that they are one's own responsibility. It is not necessary that anyone else share them, nor is it necessary that one accept anyone else's conclusions. So much is not known that we might feel quite justified in pursuing our own investigations, as long as we maintain an open mind, as the next body of evidence marches down the road. All the best, Adelasie From kpauljohnson@yahoo.com Fri Jan 06 13:21:44 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: kpauljohnson@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18701 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 21:21:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 21:21:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.55) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 21:21:43 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 21:20:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.90] by mailer2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 21:20:28 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 21:20:27 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <43BE61D5.23763.28B05085@localhost> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.55 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 12.43.220.66 From: "kpauljohnson" Subject: "Acceptance" (reply to Adelasie) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=85941729; y=QiS6ERQjeNMajFyNMNMXTZyrKef5OZ0Ys0X0qjvcIiHorb47C4BS X-Yahoo-Profile: kpauljohnson Dear Adelasie, And a happy new year to you! You bring out a point that I thought=20 about mentioning but didn't-- what does it mean to "accept" anyone's=20 conclusions about anything. Whether on the basis of scholarly=20 expertise, scriptural authority, or paranormal claims, when=20 we "accept" another's conclusions, that falls far short of *knowing=20 for ourselves.*=20=20 So to clarify, and on this we can perhaps approach agreement,=20 whatever we "accept" without personal knowledge should be held=20=20 lightly, regardless of the source. It's closer to "suspend judgment"=20 than to "unquestioningly endorse," in the way Martin is suggesting=20 it, I think. It is the opposite of "reject," yet weaker than related=20 terms like "embrace" or "adhere to." Those go beyond "I suppose it's=20 probably true" to "I am personally attached to its being true"-- and=20 that has a way of setting us up for a fall. In Theosophical terms,=20 accepting an idea/doctrine is manasic whereas embracing it or=20 adhering to it is kamic, perhaps. Cheers, Paul --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "adelasie" wrote: > > Hi Paul, >=20 > Happy New Year! >=20 > I can't resist: >=20 > > Of course it can be comfortable and ego-enhancing to claim to know > > better than the experts on the basis of psychic revelations or=20 sacred > > texts. But that is not in the spirit of the theosophical=20 enterprise > > as defined by the Founders, however much it might have become a > > prevalent attitude of Theosophists in the 20th and 21st centuries. >=20 > Comfortable and ego-enhancing it may be, or, contrarily,=20 > devastatingly humbling, but as I understand it, the founders of=20 > Theosophy enjoined erstwhile students to take nobody's word for=20 > anything, but to investigate according to their (the students')=20 > lights and arrive at conclusions that are satisfactory to them. My=20 > personal experience suggests that these personally arrived at=20 > conclusions are subject to adjustment, as the years roll by. But=20 one=20 > has the comfort, with such conclusions, that they are one's own=20 > responsibility. It is not necessary that anyone else share them,=20 nor=20 > is it necessary that one accept anyone else's conclusions. So much=20 is=20 > not known that we might feel quite justified in pursuing our own=20 > investigations, as long as we maintain an open mind, as the next=20 body=20 > of evidence marches down the road.=20 >=20 > All the best, > Adelasie > From samirkhatri@yahoo.com Fri Jan 06 13:43:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 80774 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 21:43:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 21:43:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.227) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 21:43:34 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n7.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 21:43:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by mailer1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 21:43:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by mailer2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 21:43:19 -0000 X-Sender: samirkhatri@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66814 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 06:33:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 06:33:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web30510.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.200.123) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 06:33:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 56788 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Jan 2006 06:33:19 -0000 Message-ID: <20060106063319.56786.qmail@web30510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.123.15.58] by web30510.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 05 Jan 2006 22:33:19 PST Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 22:33:19 -0800 (PST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 68.142.200.123 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Samir Khatri Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: DO WE REMEMBER .DOC X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=234106478; y=1hKcsZ-GjGxqASVA44SbfmRCACjkFe-EZxxfietTYdFE-zIRVJk X-Yahoo-Profile: samirkhatri Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: eldon_tucker via web; 06 Jan 2006 21:43:19 -0000 Very Interesting!! makes you ponder.... Alaya wrote: thank you dallas for this posting i was much delighted to read all this interesting stories. --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "W.Dallas TenBroeck" wrote: > > DO WE REMEMBER .DOC > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20=20=20=20 > DO WE REMEMBER? >=20 >=20 > Mozart composed minuets before he was four years old. Beethoven gave > successful concerts before he was eight, and published com positions when he > was ten. Chopin played in public before he was nine. Mendelssohn was already > famous at twelve, while Brahms ex cited attention from babyhood. Richard > Strauss was a successful composer at six, while Samuel Wesley was an > organist at three and composed an oratorio at eight. >=20 > * *=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 > * * >=20 > Ruth Slenczynski=97a child of eight years=97 was acclaimed in New York City in > 1933 for her piano recital of Bach, Beethoven, Mendelssohn, and Chopin. She > came simple and smiling upon the stage, but when she sat down to play, her > appearance was that of a mature woman in a child's body. One was forced to > realize that only the Soul present could so command the nature and body. >=20 > * *=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 > * * >=20 > "Blind Tom" was a negro born in slavery on a Georgia plantation in 1849. Not > only was he born blind but he was so nearly a congenital idiot that it was > almost impossible to teach him to talk or to perform the simplest tasks. >=20 > By the time he was ten years old he had been drilled into "tending door" > =97his sole accomplishment. In those days the kitchen was in a separate cabin > immediately back of the mansion-house dining room. Slaves would run back and > forth between kitchen and dining room at meal time and it was Blind Tom's > task to open the swinging door for them. One day a young lady guest played > some highly technical numbers just before lunch. After lunch eon the company > scattered for various amusements. It happened that the young lady re turned > to the deserted dining room for some forgotten article and was astonished to > hear the piano resounding with the music she had played an hour or two > before. Peeping into the music room she beheld Blind Tom, oblivious to all > but the magic sounds his flying fingers were conjuring from the instrument. > Within a year Mr. Bethune, Tom's "owner," was exhibiting him to large > audiences in New York City =97 to his own profit and to the world's > incredulous admiration. >=20 > * * * * >=20 > Christian Heinrich Heinecken was born in Denmark in 1721. At ten months of > age he could converse as freely and intelligently as an adult. By the time > he was a year old he knew the Pentateuch practically by heart=97knew it not > only in a memorial sense, but understood it as well as his elders who read > and told the Old Testament stories to him. By the end of his second year he > was as well versed in sacred history as those who taught him, had decided > opinions on the many moot theological questions of the time, and could hold > his own in discussion with the numerous learned divinity men who sought him > out for the sake of what they could learn from him. At three years of age he > was as much of a marvel in geography and in world history as the greatest > travelers and university professors. He was by this time proficient in > German as well as Danish, and could talk well in French and Latin. His > parents' home became a kind of place of pilgrimage to which men and women of > standing and repute from many distant places came with reverence and respect > to meet and consult with this phenomenal babe. The child died at a little > over four years of age. >=20 > * * * * >=20 > Horace Greeley, the famous American newspaper editor, was the third child of > parents who wrestled for a meager existence on a stony hillside Vermont > farm. Horace was weak, sickly, and from the first uninterested in the things > that attract and amuse babies. That he learned to read before he could talk > in other than "baby language" is told by more than one biographer. His own > mother related that she observed before he was two years old how he seemed > fascinated to see his father reading from a paper. Overburdened with family > duties, it occurred to her to give him an old newspaper to play with while > she was absent from the room. Coming into the house one day she started > toward the door of the room in which she had left Horace. Astonished to hear > a voice speaking as an adult might, and thinking some visitor must have > entered during her absence, she paused by the door and looked in. Horace was > reading aloud from the sheet before him! No one had ever taught him even his > A B C's. >=20 > * > * * * >=20 > William Henry West Betty was born in England in 1791. He appeared on the > stage at the age of eleven in adult parts, and at twelve he was playing > Shakesperian roles in London to overcrowded houses. It is of record that the > English Parliament actually adjourned on one occasion so that its members > might attend a performance in which this precocious youngster played the > role of Hamlet. >=20 > * * * > * >=20 > Elmer J. Schoneberger, Jr., born at Los Angeles in 1929, at six months of > age could con verse plainly; at a year old he had learned the alphabet; at > three, he was able to talk with ease and understanding on such subjects as > "electricity, engineering, economics, history, aviation and sports." >=20 > * * * > * >=20 >=20 > A GREEK LESSON [Prologue to "Gorgo"]. >=20 >=20 > I stopped short; I flung down the book. "It is a lie," I cried bitterly, "a > cruel, hateful lie," >=20 > I almost shouted, =97 and the whole class stared at me in amazement. >=20 > A strange outburst was that for the dingy, drowsy Greek-room of the > little New England college. I was as much surprised as any; I stood confused > at myself. For then it was that I remembered. >=20 > The passage which I was translating seemed innocent enough=97to all the > rest. We were reading at sight =97 the professor's particular hobby; and he > was exploiting upon us the Twelfth Oration of Lysias. >=20 > But I had been paying scant attention to what they were reading. Greek > was easy to me always, and the halting drone with which they turned the > sweet Attic into their class-room jargon wearied my ears. And my thoughts > had drifted far away into I know not what regions of day-dreams, under a > bright sky buttressed on purple hills, when I heard the incisive voice of > the professor: >=20 > "Leonard, you may read now, beginning with the seventy-eighth section." > It cut through the mists of cloud land like the flash of a searchlight. >=20 > I started to my feet, found the place and began: >=20 > "`And although he has been the author of all these and still other > disasters and disgraces, both old and new, both small and great, some dare > to profess themselves his friends; al though it was not for the people that > Theramenes died, but because of his own villainy=97'Then I choked and stopped. > Tears swam in my eyes, and a hot flash scalded my cheeks. For in that > instant first I understood; and in that instant it seemed to me that they > all understood. >=20 > But the professor, rather mortified at my unwonted hesitation, began to > prompt: >=20 > "Go on, Leonard, =97 go on, it is not so hard=97 `and no less justly would he > have died under the democracy, which he twice enslaved' =97 why, Leonard!". >=20 > "It is a lie," I burst forth. "A cruel, hateful lie." Those words which > he uttered so calmly had stung me like the lashes of a scourge, =97 so > malignant, so artful, so utterly unjust. And the whole world had read > them=97this had been believed for centuries, with none to contradict! >=20 > "To say it when a man was dead !" I went on. "And Lysias! for Lysias to > say it!" I had quite forgotten the class; I saw only the foppish, waspish > little orator, declaiming before the people with studied passion and hot > indignation well memorized. But the people had never accepted it They knew > me better. . . >=20 > "They would not listen to such as Lysias; they would make an uproar and > rise from the benches. How dared that alien accuse the best blood of > Athens!" Yet I could scarcely have told you why I said it. >=20 > My classmates were too much astonished to laugh. The professor laid down > his book; mine I flung on the floor. My blood was boiling; my soul a tumult. >=20 > "What does this mean, Leonard?" I heard the voice; I could not clearly see > the speaker. >=20 > "I will not read it=97I will not read another line," I cried. . >=20 > For the past had opened like a darkness lightning-cleft; all in one moment I > felt the injustices of ages; the shame of an aeon of scorn=97and they asked me > to read against my self the lying record. I would die again sooner than read > it. I could not realize that they did not comprehend. >=20 > It was not often that Professor Lalor was at a loss for words, but there was > a long pause before he spoke. >=20 > "Young man," he said slowly, "I always like my student s to manifest a > living interest in what they read, and this trait I have especially > commended in you heretofore. But there is measure, Leonard, in all things, > as the Greeks themselves have taught us; and this exceeds=97 this certainly > exceeds. One would fancy you contemporary authority." . . >=20 > Again I had choked, but anger gave me back my speech. >=20 > "Lysias an authority!" I exclaimed. "Lysias ! " >=20 > My sight had cleared. The class sat quiet, startled out of their laughter; > the professor looked pained and puzzled. >=20 > "There is a degree of truth in what you seem to imply," he said. "It may > be conceded that Lysias was somewhat lacking in the judicial quality. And as > to Theramenes, Aristotle has expressed a very different estimate of him. Yet > Lysias=97" >=20 > "He was no better than a sycophant," I broke in. >=20 > "Go to your room, Leonard. You forget yourself." But the truth was, I had > remembered myself. > After that they nicknamed me Theramenes: I was nicknamed after myself, > and none suspected. >=20 >=20=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 >=20 >=20 > My sister was born and married abroad. On arrival in England she and her > husband set off to visit at an old manor house in Wiltshire. >=20 > On entering the lodge gates, my sister turned to her husband and said, > "Why, this is my old home," and to his surprise, she pointed out landmarks > on the way. >=20 > The experience was related at dinner, and the host, somewhat incredulous, > playfully said, "Perhaps you will discover the Priest's Hole !" It was > mentioned in the history of the place that one existed in Tudor times, but > it had never been discovered. >=20 > After dinner the guests adjourned to the gallery to see some old > pictures, and it was noticed my sister was missing. They found her in a room > nearby, counting the panels on the wall, and looking somewhat dreamy. > Suddenly she exclaimed, "This is the one," and asked her husband to press a > leaf in the carving very hard as she could not manage it. >=20 > He did so, the panel moved stiffly, and a tiny room was revealed, dusty > with age, and empty save for a broken piece of pottery and a pallet, which > had evidently been used for a bed. >=20 > * * * * >=20 > The first year of little Jackie's life we called him our little Chinaman, > because his features=97particularly his eyes=97were Chinese. After his fi= rst > year, he began to lose that Oriental look. But he was always different from > the other children=97silent, he preferred to play alone, and would play for > hours with one object. >=20 > As he grew older, it was noticed that Jackie was the one who did things. > If he started a thing, he always finished it. Often we would hear the others > say, "Jackie can fix it!" And always Jackie fixed it. >=20 > It was when he was five years old that I made the boys each a pair of > navy blue pants. Immediately, Jim tried his on. When I asked Jackie if he > wanted to put his on, he said, No=97 he would put them in his drawer until I > got his shirt made. "But Jackie," I said, "I just made you some shirts." >=20 > "I know," he answered, "but they are not the right kind." >=20 > "What is the right kind?" >=20 > "The right kind is long, like this," he said, and he measured with his > little hand down to his knees. > "But boys don't wear shirts like that!" >=20 > "I know. But they don't wear the right kind of shirts. I want you to make > mine black with lots of pretty colors on it." >=20 > "Daddy," said I, "doesn't wear that kind of shirt." >=20 > "No, Daddy doesn't wear the right kind of shirt, nor Ned Lane, either." > (Ned Lane is a friend of his father.) >=20 > I asked Jackie if he would wear this long black shirt with the pretty > colors to school, and he said yes, he would; because it was the right kind > of shirt! >=20 > And then we say, we don't "remember." >=20 > * * * > * >=20 > When children come to visit me, they love to dress up in my clothes, and > "play lady." One day, Betty May had spent an unusually long time in my room, > and finally came out in a long dress, with a scarf wound round her head. >=20 > She said, "Look, Grannie! This is the way we dressed when we were > Indians." >=20 > "Oh, were you an Indian?" I queried innocently. >=20 > She looked at me with surprise in her eyes, and said, "Of course. And you > too, Grannie. Don't you remember? What is the name of that country where we > lived when we were Indians?" >=20 > I asked if it were India, maybe, but she said, no, that wasn't the right > name. >=20 > Then I asked, "Were the babies Indians, too?" >=20 > Quickly she answered, "Oh, no. Not Jackie. Jackie was another kind of man. > Jackie looked like this" =97 and she drew herself up very straight and folded > her arms across her chest. >=20 > "How about Jim and Sue? Were they Indians ?" >=20 > She looked very serious for a minute, and then said, "I don't remember, > Grannie." >=20 > Then someone came in, and we were never able to pick up the thread again, > until several weeks later when she told me,=20 >=20 > "Mother doesn't know all the things we know, Grannie." >=20 > "Why doesn't she, dear?" I said. >=20 > "Because, she hasn't been to our country." >=20 > "But how do you know, Betty May?" I asked. >=20 > The only answer I could get was, "You know, Grannie." >=20 > And then we say, we don't "remember." >=20 > * * * > * >=20 > When Baby Carla was six weeks old, she saw her Uncle Hal for the first > time. A twinkle came in her eyes, she smiled, and put out her tongue at him! > Ever after, that was her sign of welcome to him, though sometimes she ex > tended the greeting to others especially favored.=20 >=20 > Between her and Uncle Hal there seemed to be always some inner secret bond > of delight and companionship, so that just as soon as she began to say > "Mama" and "Papa," she also began to use a name for Uncle Hal. "Pak-kar," > she called him.=20 >=20 > Her parents were mystified. What strange freak made that word, like nothing > anyone had ever heard before?=20 >=20 > There was no variation in it at any time. It was always clear and > distinct=97unmistakable. Before the little one had reached the age of two= , > however, Uncle Hal died suddenly. Carla appeared to know nothing about it, > except that several times in the next few weeks, and very contrary to her > usual sunny awakening from sleep, she woke crying, as if her heart were > broken. When her mother soothed her and asked her why she cried, she said, > "Pak-kar's gone !" She never again greeted anyone with little tongue thrust > out. >=20 > Two years after this, while Carla's mother was reading one of Breasted's > histories, she came to a chapter in which was discussed the similar roots of > words in old languages. Across the page sprang into her view this line, > giving the ancient forms of our word, father: Greek Latin Teutonic Sanscrit > Tibetan pater pater vater pitar pakkar. >=20 > It was four years later when Carla's father brought home from the library > a book of travel on Tibet, in which was illustrated the Tibetan greeting, > first used by Carla at the age of six weeks! >=20 > * * * * >=20 >=20=20=20=20 > Little Robert was the sunniest, happiest, most lovable little four-year-old > boy anyone ever knew! Not only was he cherished by all those in his family, > including aunts and uncles and cousins, but friends =97 even strangers =97 found > him "different" from other little ones, and with a strange power to lighten > their hearts. But, one day a terrible disease struck him swiftly, and he > died. >=20 > Little Robert's parents knew about reincarnation, and their sorrow was > more bearable because they had also heard that when a child dies under the > age of seven years, the same Ego might reincarnate again in the same family. > Two years later, a little brother was born to them, so closely resembling > little Robert that they could not help giving the babe the same name. As he > grew, old familiar ways were recognized, and the two babes seemed blended in > this one. They began to speak of the first little Robert as "the other one." >=20 > Meantime, some of the families of cousins had moved far away, and had > never seen the second Robert. One day, when he was three years old, one of > these girl cousins came to the house on a surprise-visit. She entered the > room where the little fellow was playing on the floor with his blocks, and > stood quietly for a moment. Robert looked up at her, smiled radiantly, flung > out his arms and called, "Ong !" >=20 > This was the name the first Robert had given her=97a name which had never been > used by anyone, save him! >=20 >=20 > --------------------------------------------------------- >=20 >=20 > The following undoubtedly true story was written by a commercial > photographer of Minneapolis. She is the elder sister of little Anne, and up > to the time of the incident, neither she nor any of the family believed in, > or knew anything of, the doctrine of re-birth. The article appeared in the > American Magazine of July, 1915. >=20 > "Anne, my little half-sister, younger by fifteen years, was a queer little > mite from the beginning. She did not even look like any member of the family > we ever heard of, for she was dark almost to swarthiness, while the rest of > us were all fair, showing our Scotch Irish ancestry unmistakably. >=20 > "As soon as she could talk in connected sentences, she would tell herself > fairy stories, and just for the fun of the thing I would take down her > murmurings with my pencil in my old diary. She was my especial charge =97 my > mother being a very busy woman=97and I was > very proud of her. These weavings of fancy were never of the usual type that > children's fairy tales take; for, in addition to the childish imagination, > there were bits of knowledge in them that a baby could not possibly have > absorbed in any sort of way. >=20 > "Another remarkable thing about her was that everything she did she > seemed to do through habit, and, in fact, such was her insistence, although > she was never able to ex plain what she meant by it. If you could have seen > the roystering air with which she would life her mug of milk when she was > only three and gulp it down at one quaffing, you would have shaken with > laughter. This particularly embarrassed my mother and she reproved Anne > repeatedly. The baby was a good little soul, and would seem to try to obey, > and then in an absent-minded moment would bring on another occasion for > mortification. `I can't help it, mother,' she would say over and over again, > tears in her baby voice, `I've always done it that way!' >=20 > "So many were the small incidents of her `habits' of speech and thought > and her tricks of manner and memory that finally we ceased to think anything > about them, and she herself was quite unconscious that she was in any way > different from other children. >=20 > "One day when she was four years old she became very indignant with Father > about some matter and, as she sat curled up on the floor in front of us, > announced her intention of going away forever. >=20 > "`Back to heaven where you came from?' inquired Father with mock > seriousness. She shook her head. >=20 > "`I didn't come from heaven to you,' she asserted with that calm > conviction to which we were quite accustomed now. `I went to the moon first, > but=97you know about the moon, don't you? It used to have people on it, but it > got so hard that we had to go.' >=20 > "This promised to be a fairy tale, so I got my pencil and diary. >=20 > "`So,' my father led her on, `you came from the moon to us, did you?' >=20 > "`Oh, no,' she told him in casual fashion. `I have been here lots of > times=97sometimes I was a man and sometimes I was a woman!' >=20 > "She was so serene in her announcement that my father laughed heartily, > which enraged the child, for she particularly disliked being ridiculed in > any way. >=20 > "`I was! I was!' she maintained indignantly. `Once I went to Canada when > I was a man! I `member my name, even.' >=20 > "`Oh, pooh-pooh,' he scoffed, `little United States girls can't be men > in Canada! What was your name that you `member so well?' >=20 > "She considered a minute. `It was Lishus Faber,' she ventured, then > repeated it with greater assurance, `that was it=97Lishus Faber.' She ran the > sounds together so that this was all I could make of it=97and the name so > stands in my diary today; `Lishus Faber.' >=20 > "`And what did you do for a living, Lishus Faber, in those early days?' My > father then treated her with the mock solemnity befitting her assurance and > quieting her nervous little body. >=20 > `I was a soldier'=97she granted the information triumphantly=97'and I took the > gates!' >=20 > "That was all that is recorded there. Over and over again, I remember, we > tried to get her to explain what she meant by the odd phrase, but she only > repeated her words and grew indignant with us for not understanding. Her > imagination stopped at explanations. We were living in a cultured community, > but al though I repeated the story to inquire about the phrase=97as one does > tell stories of beloved children, you know=97no one could do more than > conjecture its meaning. >=20 > "Some one encouraged my really going further with the matter, and for a year > I studied all the histories of Canada I could lay my hands on for a battle > in which somebody `took the gates.' All to no purpose. Finally I was > directed by a librarian to a `documentary' history, I suppose it is=97a funny > old volume with the `s' like f' s, you know. This was over a year afterward, > when I had quite lost hope of running my phrase to earth. It was a quaint > old book, interestingly picturesque in many of its tales, but I found one > bit that put all others out of my mind. It was a brief account of the taking > of a little walled city by a small company of soldiers, a distinguished feat > of some sort, yet of no general importance. A young lieutenant with his > small band=97the phrase leaped to my eyes=97'took the gates.' And the name of > the young lieutenant was `Aloysius Le F=EAbre.'" >=20 >=20 > --------------------------------------------------- >=20 >=20 > It is told of one American gentleman, on his first visit to London, that > while waiting in a lawyer's office to keep an appointment, he began to have > a sense of familiarity of the room steal over him. The feeling grew very > strong, till finally he said to himself: "Well, if I ever have been here > before, there is a certain knot-hole in the panel of that door over > there=97and if so, it is under that calendar hanging there!" He walked over > to the door and lifted the calendar. The knot-hole was there, as he knew it > would be. >=20 >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------- >=20 >=20 > THE TURN OF THE WHEEL >=20 > He was the son of a ruler in Rajpootana. His father governed a district, > including several villages as well as his own small town, with justice and > wisdom, so that all were prosperous and happy. The ruler was called a Rajah; > he lived in a building made of stone, built on a hill that commanded the > town. The son was born after the Rajah had been for many years childless, > and was the only child to whom the father's honors and power could descend. > He was named Rama after the great Avatar. From the time he was born and > until he could speak, a strange look was always to be seen in his baby eyes; > a look that gazed at you without flinching, as if he had some design on you; > and yet at times it seemed to show that he was laughing at himself, sorry, > too; melancholy at times. >=20 > Rama grew up and delighted his father with his goodness and strength of > mind. The strange glance of his eye as a baby remained with him, so that > while every one loved him, they all felt also a singular respect that was > sometimes awe. His studies were completed, and he began to take part in the > administration of the affairs of the old and now feeble rajah. >=20 > Rama felt a great need of being alone. Every day he retired to his room, > unattended, and on the fourteenth of each month spent the entire day alone. > He felt a weight upon his heart which did not come from this life. He had > had no sorrow, had lost no bright possession; his ambitions were all > fulfilled. He longed to know what was before him yet to learn. This was why > he spent his time in self- searching and meditation. So, he came to find > that his higher self spoke one language, and the personal self another. He > came to see that the personal self weighted him down with the chains of > ignorance, and that his must be a search, not for possessions, but for > knowledge, no matter where the search should take him. Then, one day, a > vision passed before him of the poverty and the riches that might be his, of > huts and buildings of stone, as he went on his way to enlightenment. But > after this, he was no longer troubled, no longer sorrowful; his mind was at > peace. >=20 > His old father died, and he carried on the government for many years, > scattering blessings in every direction, until a rival rajah came and > demanded all his possessions, showing a claim to them through a forgotten > branch of the family. Instead of rejecting the claim, which was just, > instead of slaying the rival as he could have done, Rama resigned all, > retired to the forest, and died, after a few years of austerity. >=20 > * * * * >=20 > The wheel of time rolled on and Rama was reborn in a town governed by the > Rajah who had once in a former life demanded Rama's possessions. But now > Rama was poor, un known, an outcaste, a chandalah who swept up garbage and > hoped that Karma might help him. He knew not that he was Rama; he only swept > the garbage near the Rajah's palace. >=20 > A solemn audience was held by the Rajah with all the priests and the > soothsayers present. Troubled by a dream of the night before, the > superstitious ruler called them in to interpret, to state causes learnedly, > to prescribe scriptural palliative measures. He had dreamed that while > walking in his garden, hearing from his treasurer an account of his > increasing wealth, a huge stone building seemed suddenly to grow up before > him. As he stopped amazed, it toppled over and seemed to bury him and his > wealth. Three times repeated, this filled him with fear. >=20 > The astrologers retired and consulted their books. The remedy was plain, one > suggested. "Let the King give up a vast sum of money to morrow to the first > person he sees after waking up." This decision was accepted, and the pro > poser of it intended to be on hand early so as > to claim the money. The Rajah agreed to the direction of the stars, and > retired for the night, full of his resolution to give immense gifts next > day. No horrid dreams disturbed his sleep. The winking stars moved over the > vault of heaven, and of all the hosts the moon seemed to smile upon the city > as if she heard and knew all.=20 >=20 > The cold early morning, dark with promise of dawn, saw the chandalah, =97 once > Rama=97 sweeping up the garbage near the palace where inside the Rajah wa= s > just awaking. The last star in heaven seemed to halt as if anxious that Rama > should come in his sweeping to the side of the palace from which the Rajah's > window opened. Slowly the Rajah's waking senses returned, and as they came a > hideous memory of his dream flashed on him. Starting up from the mat on > which he lay, he rose and seemed to think. >=20 > "What was I to do? Yes, give gifts. But it is not yet day. Still the oracle > said `immediately on awakening'." >=20 > As he hesitated, the poor garbage sweeper outside came more nearly in front > of his window. The setting star almost seemed to throw a beam through the > wall that struck and pushed him to the window. Flinging open the shutter to > get breath, he looked down, and there before him was the poor chandalah with > waistcloth and no turban, sweating with exertion,-hastening on with the task > that when finished would leave the great Rajah's grounds clean and ready for > their lord. >=20 > "Thank the gods," said the Rajah, "it is fate; a just decision; to the poor > and the pious should gifts be given." >=20 > At an early hour he gathered his ministers and priests together and said=97 "I > give gifts to the devas through the poor; I redeem my vow. Call the > chandalah who early this morning swept the ground." >=20 > Rama was called and thought it was for prison or death. But the Rajah amazed > him with a gift of many thousands of rupees, and as the chandalah, now rich, > passed out, he thought he smelt a strange familiar odor and saw a dazzling > form flash by. "This," thought he, "is a deva." >=20 > The money made Rama rich. He established himself and invited Brahmins to > teach others; he distributed alms, and one day he caused a huge building of > stone to be built with broken stone chains on its sides to represent how > fate ruptured his chains. And later on a wise seer, a Brahmin of many > austerities, looking into his life, told him briefly, > "Next life thou art free. Thy name is Rama." >=20 > BRYAN KINNAVAN ( Adapted) >=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 >=20 > Best wishes, >=20 > Dallas > =20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20 Samir Khatri=20=20 Contact Numbers:=20=20 Mauritius: +230-2591940 =09=09 --------------------------------- Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From arhat_buddhism@yahoo.com Fri Jan 06 13:43:38 2006 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 55014 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 21:43:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 21:43:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.39) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 21:43:38 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 21:43:15 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by mailer4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 21:43:15 -0000 X-Sender: arhat_buddhism@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5196 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2006 19:29:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2006 19:29:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web54714.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.204) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2006 19:29:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 16746 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Jan 2006 19:29:01 -0000 Message-ID: <20060105192901.16744.qmail@web54714.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [201.0.6.104] by web54714.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 05 Jan 2006 11:29:01 PST Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 11:29:01 -0800 (PST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.49.204 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Bhikshuni Ariya Subject: Re: Theos-World Did HPB "cull" Theosophy from the religions of the world? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218337227; y=U48m3sQBfSNfs5rpi-mpscSfpcyCycd9kghVOvUMVMVbNsT_d9hpbFk X-Yahoo-Profile: arhat_buddhism Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: eldon_tucker via web; 06 Jan 2006 21:43:12 -0000 You cull your books from HPB writings. And very badly you cull. danielhcaldwell wrote: Did HPB "cull" Theosophy from the religions of the world? Let us be more specific..... For example, did HPB herself "cull" the teaching about the terrestrial chain of globes from various religious works or did she receive the teaching from her Masters....? I quote below several passages from THE SECRET DOCTRINE. Notice that HPB mentions THE ORIGINAL TEACHINGS in one of the passages. What is she referring to by this phrase? Also notice that she states that she "applied to the Teachers [the Mahatmas] by letter for explanation and an authoritative version." "...an authoritative version...." !!?? What does that mean? ================================================== "Esoteric Buddhism" [by A.P. Sinnett] . . . is an excellent book [on Theosophy], and has done still more excellent work. But this does not alter the fact that it contains some mistaken notions. . . . Mistakes have now to be checked by the original teachings and corrected. . . . Among such [mistakes]. . . [was] the erroneous statement that two of the superior Globes of the terrestrial chain were two of our well- known planets [Mars and Mercury].... When the present work [THE SECRET DOCTRINE] was commenced, the writer [H.P. Blavatsky herself], feeling sure that the speculation about Mars and Mercury was a mistake, applied to the Teachers [the Mahatmas] by letter for explanation and an authoritative version. Both came in due time, and verbatim extracts from these are now given. . . . Again, here are more extracts from another letter written by the same authority.... ...Those alone, whom we call adepts, who know how to direct their mental vision and to transfer their consciousness -- physical and psychic both -- to other planes of being, are able to speak with authority on such subjects. And they tell us plainly: -- . . . ". . . . . . Be prudent, we say, prudent and wise, and above all take care what those who learn from you believe in; lest by deceiving themselves they deceive others . . . . . for such is the fate of every truth with which men are, as yet, unfamiliar. . . . Let rather the planetary chains and other super- and sub-cosmic mysteries remain a dreamland for those who can neither see, nor yet believe that others can. . . ." ================================================== Quoted from: http://blavatskyarchives.com/moderntheosophy.htm#2 Daniel http://blavatskyarchives.com Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From arhat_buddhism@yahoo.com Fri Jan 06 13:44:16 2006 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22424 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 21:44:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 21:44:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.233) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 21:44:15 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n10.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 21:44:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by mailer1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 21:44:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by mailer6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 21:44:08 -0000 X-Sender: arhat_buddhism@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29773 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 14:57:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 14:57:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web54715.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.205) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 14:57:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 86964 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Jan 2006 14:55:33 -0000 Message-ID: <20060106145532.86962.qmail@web54715.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [201.0.6.104] by web54715.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 06 Jan 2006 06:55:32 PST Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 06:55:32 -0800 (PST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.49.205 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Bhikshuni Ariya Subject: Re: Theos-World Gladney Oakley X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218337227; y=ANJ2E-0iWFGNt1wZoOvSvDlhWaDl81-b0TyTabNYgCbIL7sp1SBpgLQ X-Yahoo-Profile: arhat_buddhism Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: eldon_tucker via web; 06 Jan 2006 21:44:08 -0000 prmoliveira wrote: Gladney Oakley, a volunteer worker for the TS in Australia for many years and the person who conceived of and implemented the Union Index of Theosophical Periodicals, which includes all volumes of *The Theosophist* and *Lucifer*, passed away in Sydney on Monday, January 2nd, 2006. He was a real Theosophist, dedicated, gentle and kind, and his friends in Australia and around the world will miss him. The funeral service will be held on Tuesday, January 10th, 2006 in the Camellia Chapel of the Macquarie Park Crematorium, Delhi Road, North Ryde, Sydney, commencing at 11:00am. Pedro Oliveira Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From arhat_buddhism@yahoo.com Fri Jan 06 13:45:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 89145 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 21:45:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 21:45:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.42) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 21:45:25 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 21:44:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by mailer5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 21:44:42 -0000 X-Sender: arhat_buddhism@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93148 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2006 18:36:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2006 18:36:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.42) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2006 18:36:15 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jan 2006 18:34:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by mailer3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jan 2006 18:34:07 -0000 Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 18:34:07 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.42 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 201.0.6.104 From: "arhat_buddhism" Subject: Morya X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218337227; y=mT2pbI6n3gwh0YL78Ulx4TTwWHGn-_bHcdE6bisq6elxDYXcXjEWMrU X-Yahoo-Profile: arhat_buddhism X-eGroups-Approved-By: eldon_tucker via web; 06 Jan 2006 21:44:41 -0000 Namo Tasso Baghavato Arahato Sammasambuddhassa Buddham Saranam Gacchami Dhammam Saranam Gacchami Sangham Saranam Gacchami From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Fri Jan 06 13:52:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13900 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 21:52:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 21:52:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.36) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 21:52:17 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 21:51:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.90] by mailer6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 21:51:52 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 21:51:49 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.36 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: Annie Besant: "No intellectual opinion is worth the holding unless...." X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=aqCru7dWYtQxrc6dtBzo72codXbqbx6S9c5b5W9pDs9RgYh2kA_lmBh2 X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell "No intellectual opinion is worth the holding unless it is obtained by the individual effort of the person who holds that opinion. It is far healthier to exercise our intelligence, even if we come to a wrong conclusion and form an inaccurate opinion, than simply, like parrots, to echo what other people say, and so put out of all possibility intellectual development." Annie Besant =20 From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Fri Jan 06 14:04:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20920 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 22:04:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 22:04:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.42) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 22:04:47 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 22:03:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by mailer1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 22:03:55 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 22:03:52 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.42 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: Convenient Links to Thesis: The Theosophical Movement of the 19th Century X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=egDwOPbeI1A30ssrL-Edu_hi7t3pFHBpTLIXuU-R_3bH6_luw0I82hPX X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Convenient Links to Thesis:=20=20 The Theosophical Movement of the Nineteenth Century:=20 The Legitimation of the Disputable & the Entrenchment of the Disreputable=20 by Arnold Kalnitsky=20 See: http://blavatskyarchives.com/Kalnitsky.htm Daniel Blavatsky Study Center http://blavatskyarchives.com From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Fri Jan 06 15:22:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 78071 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 23:22:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 23:22:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.231) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 23:22:22 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n8.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 23:22:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by mailer1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 23:22:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.72] by mailer5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2006 23:22:08 -0000 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 23:22:07 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 216.155.203.231 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: Prove Christ exists, judge orders priest X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=fPihzovLvpMj21V8A-Bx460zyZh4MyVgFe0d5ypMX_Iecwwza3VvYQXA X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Today at the Drudge Report , in the middle column, I found the following link! =20 Did Jesus exist? Italian court to decide=20 http://tinyurl.com/cldlg See also: Prove Christ exists, judge orders priest http://tinyurl.com/bhr2a See description of the book FABLE OF CHRIST mentioned in the above two articles at: http://www.luigicascioli.it/home_eng.php Daniel http://hpb.cc From waking.adept@gmail.com Fri Jan 06 15:50:43 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: waking.adept@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80378 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2006 23:50:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Jan 2006 23:50:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO zproxy.gmail.com) (64.233.162.199) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2006 23:50:42 -0000 Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id v1so669688nzb for ; Fri, 06 Jan 2006 15:50:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.96.13 with SMTP id y13mr2082932qbl; Fri, 06 Jan 2006 15:50:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.123.10 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Jan 2006 15:50:41 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 18:50:41 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <7d.77cb0f0a.30ef0e86@cs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline References: <7d.77cb0f0a.30ef0e86@cs.com> X-Originating-IP: 64.233.162.199 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Mark Hamilton Jr." Subject: Re: Theos-World The Five Sacred Colors X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219719026 VGhhbmsgeW91IGJvdGggZm9yIHlvdXIgcmVzcG9uc2VzLiBJIGZvdW5kIHRoZW0gdG8gYmUg cXVpdGUgaGVscGZ1bC4KClJlZ2FyZHMsCi1NYXJrIEguCgpPbiAxLzUvMDYsIHNhbWJsb0Bj cy5jb20gPHNhbWJsb0Bjcy5jb20+IHdyb3RlOgo+IEZyYW5rLAo+ICAgIFRoZSA1IGNvbG9y ZWQgZmxhZyBwcmVjZWRlZCBPbGN1dHQgaW4gVGliZXQgYnkgc29tZSB0aG91c2FuZHMgb2Yg eWVhcnM6Cj4KPiBGcm9tOnd3dy5wcmF5ZXJmbGFncy5jb20vZG93bmxvYWQvYXJ0aWNsZS9w ZGYrdGliZXQrNStjb2xvcnMmaGw9ZW4KPgo+ID4+VGhlIEVsZW1lbnRzCj4gVmFqcmF5YW5h IEJ1ZGRoaXNtIGRpdmlkZXMgdGhlIHBoZW5vbWVuYWwgYW5kIHBzeWNoby1jb3NtaWMgd29y 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IGFsd2F5cyBpbnRlcmVzdGVkIGluIG9idGFpbmluZyBlc3BlY2lhbGx5IG5pY2Ugd29vZGJs b2NrIHByaW50cyBmcm9tIHBlb3BsZQo+IHRyYXZlbGluZyB0byB0aG9zZSBwbGFjZXMuCj4g V3JpdHRlbiBieSBUaW1vdGh5IENsYXJrIGluIHRoZSA4Cj4gdGgKPiBtb250aCBvZiB0aGUg V2F0ZXIgSG9yc2UgeWVhciBhdCBSZWR3YXksIENBCj4gQ29weXJpZ2h0IFJhZGlhbnQgSGVh cnQgU3R1ZGlvLiBJZiB5b3Ugd291bGQgbGlrZSB0byByZXByb2R1Y2UgPDwKPgo+IEpvaG4K Pgo+Cj4KPiBbTm9uLXRleHQgcG9ydGlvbnMgb2YgdGhpcyBtZXNzYWdlIGhhdmUgYmVlbiBy ZW1vdmVkXQo+Cj4KPgo+Cj4gWWFob28hIEdyb3VwcyBMaW5rcwo+Cj4KPgo+Cj4KPgo+CgoK LS0KTWFyayBIYW1pbHRvbiBKci4Kd2FraW5nLmFkZXB0QGdtYWlsLmNvbQo= From adelasie@sbcglobal.net Fri Jan 06 19:27:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: adelasie@sbcglobal.net@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69270 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2006 03:27:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jan 2006 03:27:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp102.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.201) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2006 03:27:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 31857 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2006 03:27:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alphanumeric) (adelasie@sbcglobal.net@63.196.198.26 with login) by smtp102.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2006 03:27:38 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 19:27:37 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <43BEC4A9.13483.124F95C@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <43BE61D5.23763.28B05085@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Originating-IP: 68.142.198.201 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "adelasie" Subject: Re: Theos-World "Acceptance" (reply to Adelasie) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=161282999 Hi Paul, Very interesting analysis. You bring out a point that I thought > about mentioning but didn't-- what does it mean to "accept" anyone's > conclusions about anything. Whether on the basis of scholarly > expertise, scriptural authority, or paranormal claims, when we > "accept" another's conclusions, that falls far short of *knowing for > ourselves.* Perhaps even by definition we could say that accepting another's conclusions falls short of knowing for ourselves. In some subjects this is not very important. I accept the conclusions my mechanic arrives at in diagnosing car problems, as well as his plan for fixing them, because I don' t want to go to the trouble to figure it out and fix it myself. But in other matters, things that interest me more intimately, I want to really know, to make the knowledge a part of myself. I want to become that knowledge, so that I know without a doubt. > > So to clarify, and on this we can perhaps approach agreement, > whatever we "accept" without personal knowledge should be held > lightly, regardless of the source. It's closer to "suspend judgment" > than to "unquestioningly endorse," in the way Martin is suggesting it, > I think. "Suspend judgment" is a very useful tool, imho. When confronted with something that just doesn't make sense, or cannot be sorted out, but that is engaging nevertheless, it is useful to put in on some mental back burner, so to speak, because further searches will often shed some light (heat?) on it. Things tend to fall into place more easily if neither embraced nor denied, but just "suspended" for a time. It is the opposite of "reject," yet weaker than related > terms like "embrace" or "adhere to." Those go beyond "I suppose it's > probably true" to "I am personally attached to its being true"-- and > that has a way of setting us up for a fall. In Theosophical terms, > accepting an idea/doctrine is manasic whereas embracing it or adhering > to it is kamic, perhaps. It is certainly possible that some things that seem obvious to one person and not to another may be things that were learned previously, that that entity had already made a part of himself, so to speak. This is if you believe in reincarnation. But that fits with the karmic category. Astrologically, it is interesting to analyze what of the infinity of "knowledge," or perhaps wisdom would be a better word here, has the native already got under his belt, and what part still lurks to be discovered. This is specious to a point, of course, since nobody knows everything. But I look at the Dragon's head and tail, the north and south nodes, to give clues about that. It is revealing as a backdrop for the whole chart. Best wishes, Adelasie From ringding@online.de Sat Jan 07 01:37:20 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71460 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2006 09:37:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jan 2006 09:37:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.187) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2006 09:37:17 -0000 Received: from [84.191.160.246] (helo=captain70e702a) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu10) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0ML31I-1EvAVg3eDH-0001db; Sat, 07 Jan 2006 10:37:17 +0100 Message-ID: <002701c6136e$2263bd50$152ca8c0@captain70e702a> To: References: <268.3990696.30ef0b44@cs.com> Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 10:38:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:d066391b47e67c594ae06bf3d758d7eb X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.187 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World Did HPB "cull" Theosophy from the religions of the world? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=224426186; y=sC_vDr6RBH1sE3SEnyQXeq4TNlzaYDTdp8d2RJTDAP5iaZqGreEFDdFOdA X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer yes, of course, thank you John. Seems, it get aged. Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 12:52 AM Subject: Re: Theos-World Did HPB "cull" Theosophy from the religions of the world? Frank, Don't you mean Robert Fludd? John From dalval14@earthlink.net Sat Jan 07 04:48:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17804 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2006 12:48:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jan 2006 12:48:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.65) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2006 12:48:57 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EvDUr-00078v-6F; Sat, 07 Jan 2006 07:48:37 -0500 To: Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 04:48:17 -0800 Message-ID: <001301c61388$a75bd050$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79ae7cabf56d087cfdf4416223dcf70c9f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.65 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: [bn-study] Re: LORD'S PRAYER OM X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=LFjuSIdytSaA4Yl0OeWKdlIxP_uBvm6gqqEqproLwDyXaw X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/7/2006 4:10 AM Dear Pandit and Friends: One of the purposes of THEOSOPHY is to expose reason and meaning hidden in ancient texts.=20=20 It does not teach or enjoin any practises. It looks on concentration of th= e mind (or meditation) as an individual will effort to learn and to understand. To secure a preliminary grasp of the subjects it is suggested that one reads (studies) HPB -- The KEY TO THEOSOPHY and W. Q. Judge The OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY.=20 It aims to provide and restore to all students a connection to the basis an= d roots of ancient and universal philosophy concerning the cause and reason o= f existence. The purpose of living (many lives -- reincarnation) is to learn how to harmonize with all aspects of Nature. This is achieved by studying Nature and her existing organization. One may observe that we presently receive our lives from Nature, but are usually unaware of the tremendous ramifications and sensitivity that extends from It to us, and vice versa.=20 Reincarnation is the process and Karma is the LAW that holds all of Nature'= s components, atoms, humans, devas, "Masters," and Mahatmas to a single line of vibrant opportunity. No one is ever excluded. These cannot and may not be altered by the curiosity (or proclaimed 'power'= ) of any one. Take that which Patanjali in his YOGA-SUTRAS call "muttering" (repeating mantrams) and "pranayama" (controlling --or, destroying -- the life-breath)= . Both require extensive knowledge and this may be obtained by anyone who studies and understands his system of the mind's Self-control. All parts of the system must be pursued concurrently, on the mental, moral, and physical planes. It is to be understood that our Mind is a tool of the Inner Self, since we direct and establish its use. If you study what Patanjali teaches= , this can be grasped by anyone. =20=20=20=20 At no place does Patanjali advocate the dangerous path of choosing "guru." There is an old saying: "When the disciple is ready, the Guru will appear.= " Every account, myth, tradition and legend that has descended to us from ancient times, it is shown that the disciple seeks the Guru. Never does a true Guru seek disciples.=20 Without Self-study, how can we expect to receive help? Without some knowledge and wisdom, we are not asked to "find" a Guru. One has to obtai= n a basis for discrimination before making such an important choice. If we can secure a copy of Patanjali's YOGA-SUTRAS and study it carefully in the light of THEOSOPHY we will learn how to make a decision.=20=20=20 A hint may be seen contained in this: The seven-fold nature of man indicates that his highest and most spiritual aspect is ATMA -- a ray of the UNIVERSAL ONE SPIRIT) within himself. In other words, the inner Guru is to be sought. Buddhi (discriminative wisdom) is progressively attained by the Mind, when it is directed and seriously held to the study of universal laws and truths.=20 These verses (slokas of instruction from Patanjali and commentaries) will b= e found :-- [ from Book II ] 26. The means of quitting the state of bondage to matter is perfect discriminative knowledge, continuously maintained.=20 The import of this-among other things-is [28] that the man who has attained to the perfection of spiritual cultivation maintains his consciousness, alike while in the body, at the moment of quitting it, and when he has passed into higher spheres; and likewise when returning continues it unbroken while quitting higher spheres, when re-entering his body, and in resuming action on the material plane.=20 27. This perfect discriminative knowledge possessed by the man who has attained to the perfection of spiritual cultivation, is of seven kinds, up to the limit of meditation.=20 28. Until this perfect discriminative knowledge is attained, there results from those practices which are conducive to concentration, an illumination more or less brilliant which is effective for the removal of impurity.=20 29. The practices which are conducive to concentration are eight in number: Forbearance, Religious [29] Observances, Postures, Suppression of the breath, Restraint, Attention, Contemplation, and Meditation.=20 30. Forbearance consists in not killing, veracity, not stealing, continence= , and not coveting.=20 31. These, without respect to rank, place, time, or compact, are the universal great duties.=20 32. Religious Observances are purification of both mind and body, contentment, austerity, inaudible mutterings, and persevering devotion to the Supreme Soul.=20 33. In order to exclude from the mind questionable things, the mental calling up of those things that are opposite is efficacious for their removal.=20 34. Questionable things, whether done, caused to be done, or approved of; whether resulting from [30] covetousness, anger, or delusion; whether slight, or of intermediate character, or beyond measure; are productive of very many fruits in the shape of pain and ignorance; hence, the "calling up of those things that are opposite" is in every way advisable.=20 35. When harmlessness and kindness are fully developed in the Yogee [he who has attained to cultivated enlightenment of the soul], there is a complete absence of enmity, both in men and animals, among all that are near to him.= =20 36. When veracity is complete, the Yogee becomes the focus for the Karma resulting from all works good or bad.=20 37. When abstinence from theft, in mind and act, is complete in the [31] Yogee, he has the power to obtain all material wealth.=20 38. When continence is complete, there is a gain of strength, in body and mind.=20 It is not meant here that a student practising continence solely, and neglecting the other practices enjoined, will gain strength. All parts of the system must be pursued concurrently, on the mental, moral, and physical planes.=20 39. When covetousness is eliminated, there comes to the Yogee a knowledge o= f everything relating to, or which has taken place in, former states of existence.=20 "Covetousness" here applies not only to coveting any object, but also to th= e desire for enjoyable conditions of mundane existence, or even for mundane existence itself.=20 40. From purification of the mind and body there arises in the Yogee a thorough discernment of the cause and nature of the body, whereupon [32] he loses that regard which others have for the bodily form; and he also ceases to feel the desire of, or necessity for, association with his fellow-beings that is common among other men.=20 41. From purification of the mind and body also ensure to the Yogee a complete predominance of the quality of goodness, complacency, intentness, subjugation of the senses, and fitness for contemplation and comprehension of the soul as distinct from nature.=20 42. From contentment in its perfection the Yogee acquires superlative felicity.=20 43. When austerity is thoroughly practised by the Yogee, the result thereof is a perfecting and heightening of the bodily senses by the removal of impurity. [33] 44. Through inaudible muttering there is a meeting with one's favorite Deity.=20 By properly uttered invocations-here referred to in the significant phrase "inaudible mutterings," the higher powers in nature, ordinarily unseen by man, are caused to reveal themselves to the sight of the Yogee; and inasmuc= h as all the powers in nature cannot be evoked at once, the mind must be directed to some particular force, or power in nature-hence the use of the term "with one's favorite Deity."=20 ------------------------------------------------- [see hereunder S D I 570 - 573 on "one's favorite Deity."=20 "Atma (our seventh principle) being identical with the universal Spirit, an= d man being one with it in his essence, what is then the Monad proper?=20 It is that homogeneous spark which radiates in millions of rays from the primeval "Seven;"-of which seven further on. It is the EMANATING spark from the UNCREATED Ray-a mystery. In the esoteric, and even exoteric Buddhism of the North, Adi Buddha (Chogi dangpoi sangye), the One unknown, without beginning or end, identical with Parabrahm and Ain-Soph, emits a bright ray from its darkness.=20 This is the Logos (the first), or Vajradhara, the Supreme Buddha (also called Dorjechang). As the Lord of all Mysteries he cannot manifest, but sends into the world of manifestation his heart-the "diamond heart," Vajrasattva (Dorjesempa).=20 This is the second logos of creation, from whom emanate the seven (in the exoteric blind the five) Dhyani Buddhas, called the Anupadaka, "the parentless."=20 These Buddhas are the primeval monads from the world of incorporeal being, the Arupa world, wherein the Intelligences (on that plane only) have neithe= r shape nor name, in the exoteric system, but have their distinct seven names in esoteric philosophy. These Dhyani Buddhas emanate, or create from themselves, by virtue of Dhyana, celestial Selves-the super-human Bodhisattvas.=20 These incarnating at the beginning of every human cycle on earth as mortal men, become occasionally, owing to their personal merit, Bodhisattvas among the Sons of Humanity, after which they may re-appear as Manushi (human) Buddhas.=20 The Anupadaka (or Dhyani-Buddhas) are thus identical with the Brahminical Manasaputra, "mind-born sons"-whether of Brahma or either of the other two Trimurtian Hypostases, hence identical also with the Rishis and Prajapatis. ... Such is the upperward gradation among entities. Gods, Men, Gandharvas, Pisachas, Asuras, Rakshasas, all have been created by Svabhava (Prakriti, o= r plastic nature), not by actions, nor by a cause"-i.e., not by any physical cause.=20 "These Brahmanas (the Rishi Prajapati?), the creators of the world, are bor= n here (on earth) again and again. Whatever is produced from them is dissolve= d in due time in those very five great elements (the five, or rather seven, Dhyani Buddhas, also called "Elements" of Mankind), like billows in the ocean. These great elements are in every way beyond the elements that make up the world (the gross elements). ... Evidently then, these "Brahmanas" are identical with the Bodhisattvas (the terrestrial) of the heavenly Dhyani Buddhas. Both, as primordial, intelligent "Elements," become the creators or the emanators of the monads destined to become human in that cycle; after which they evolve themselves, or, so to say, expand into their own selves as Bodhisattvas or Brahmanas, i= n heaven and earth, to become at last simple men --"the creators of the world are born here, on earth again and again"-truly. ... Esoterically the teaching differs: The divine, purely Adi-Buddhic monad manifests as the universal Buddhi (the Maha-buddhi or Mahat in Hindu philosophies) the spiritual, omniscient and omnipotent root of divine intelligence, the highest anima mundi or the Logos. This descends "like a flame spreading from the eternal Fire, immoveable, without increase or decrease, ever the same to the end" of the cycle of existence, and becomes universal life on the Mundane Plane.=20 >From this Plane of conscious Life shoot out, like seven fiery tongues, the Sons of Light (the logoi of Life); then the Dhyani-Buddhas of contemplation= : the concrete forms of their formless Fathers-the Seven Sons of Light, still themselves, to whom may be applied the Brahmanical mystic phrase: "Thou art 'THAT'-Brahm."=20 It is from these Dhyani-Buddhas that emanate their chhayas (Shadows) the Bodhisattvas of the celestial realms, the prototypes of the super-terrestrial Bodhisattvas, and of the terrestrial Buddhas, and finally of men. The "Seven Sons of Light" are also called "Stars."=20 The star under which a human Entity is born, says the Occult teaching, will remain for ever its star, throughout the whole cycle of its incarnations in one Manvantara. But this is not his astrological star. The latter is concerned and connected with the personality, the former with=20 the INDIVIDUALITY. The "Angel" of that Star, or the Dhyani-Buddha will be either the guiding or simply the presiding "Angel," so to say, in every new rebirth of the monad, which is part of his own essence, though his vehicle, man, may remain for ever ignorant of this fact.=20 The adepts have each their Dhyani-Buddha, their elder "twin Soul," and they know it, calling it "Father-Soul," and "Father-Fire." It is only at the las= t and supreme initiation, however, that they learn it when placed face to fac= e with the bright "Image." ... S D I 570 - 573 ----------------------------------------------------- 45. Perfection in meditation comes from persevering devotion to the Supreme Soul.=20 46. A posture assumed by a Yogi must be steady and pleasant.=20 For the clearing up of the mind of the student it is to be observed that th= e "postures" laid down in various systems of "Yoga" are not absolutely essential to the successful pursuit of the practice of concentration and attainment of its ultimate fruits. All such "postures," as prescribed by Hindu writers, are based upon an accurate knowledge of the [34] physiological effects produced by them, but at the present day they are onl= y possible for Hindus, who from their earliest years are accustomed to assuming them.=20 47. When command over the postures has been thoroughly attained, the effort to assume them is easy; and when the mind has become thoroughly identified with the boundlessness of space, the posture becomes steady and pleasant.=20 48. When this condition has been attained, the Yogee feels no assaults from the pairs of opposites.=20 By "pairs of opposites" reference is made to the conjoined classification, all through the Hindu philosophical and metaphysical systems, of the oppose= d qualities, conditions, and states of being, which are eternal sources of pleasure or pain in mundane existence, such as cold and heat, hunger and satiety, day and night, poverty and riches, liberty and despotism.=20 PRANAYAMA 49. Also, when this condition has been [35] attained, there should succeed regulation of the breath, in exhalation, inhalation, and retention.=20 50. This regulation of the breath, which is in exhalation, inhalation, and retention, is further restricted by conditions of time, place, and number, each of which may be long or short.=20 51. There is a special variety of breath regulation which has reference to both that described in the last preceding aphorism and the inner sphere of breathing.=20 Aphorisms 49, 50, 51 allude to regulation of the breath as a portion of the physical exercises referred to in the note upon Aphorism 46, acquaintance with the rules and prescriptions for which, on the part of the student, is inferred by Patanjali. Aphorism 50 refers merely to the regulation of the several periods, degrees of force; and number of alternating recurrences of the three divisions of breathing-exhalation, inhalation, and [36] retention of the breath.=20 But Aphorism 51 alludes to another regulation of the breath, which is its governance by the mind so as to control its direction to and consequent influence upon certain centers of nerve perception within the human body fo= r the production of physiological, followed by psychic effects.=20 52. By means of this regulation of the breath, the obscuration of the mind resulting from the influence of the body is removed.=20 53. And thus the mind becomes prepared for acts of attention.=20 54. Restraint is the accommodation of the senses to the nature of the mind, with an absence on the part of the senses of their sensibility to direct impression from objects.=20 55. Therefrom results a complete subjugation of the senses.=20 ---------------------------------------------------- It is stated in THEOSOPHY that Karma rules the Universe from the grandest possible extent to the smallest -- it is invariable, just, equitable to all and relentless it its task of harmonizing all causes and relating them to their effects. It is educative, not punitive.=20 It cannot be manipulated by anyone.=20=20 Reincarnation as a process of karma cannot then be manipulated.=20 "For Karma in its effects is an unfailing redresser of human injustice, and of all the failures of nature; a stern adjuster of wrongs; a retributive la= w which rewards and punishes with equal impartiality. It is, in the strictest sense, "no respecter of persons," though, on the other hand, it can neither be propitiated, nor turned aside by prayer. This is a belief common to Hindus and Buddhists, who both believe in Karma. " Key, p. 198 Sometimes a person may claim high powers and insight into the causes of the Karma of others, but consider this: -- "...salvation by faith, but at the same time [they] do not claim - as the Christian does for his dogma - that there is no other way to be saved.=20 They admit that a person may be saved "by his own power"- if he has the requisite strength to hold out -, but they think that in general men have not the power to resist evil for a time sufficient to permit the accomplishment of the result; and they assert that besides the lack of strength there will be doubt, for, "Faith by one's own power cannot afford rest to the heart." It is said, 'Shall I surely attain salvation or shall I not?' and thus wha= t is called faith is in reality doubt," but "Faith by the power of another affords rest to the heart. It is said -: 'I am born by the power of that vow; I shall certainly attain salvation.' There is not the smallest doubt i= n the heart." Another Sutra says: "Those who follow the method of 'self power' believe in many other Buddhas; those who follow the method of 'another's power' believ= e only in the one Buddha, as a faithful servant does not serve two masters." W Q J Art Vol. 1, pp. 279-280 [Patanjali's YOGA SUTRAS are available "on line" for reading or downloading at: www.phx-ult-lodge.org/s=20=20 inquiry@theosophycompany.org=20 Best wishes, Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 -----Original Message----- From: Pundit=20 Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:01 PM To:=20 Subject Re: LORD'S PRAYER OM How indeed True! ...... snip In pranayam, there are several technique we all know about. Looking at the= =20 sciences of breathing, as per Sage Patanjali's Yoga Sutras, we can control = a lot. Any way, this is a seperate topic for discussion. Thank you. Pundit Sunil Dev=20 From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sat Jan 07 10:09:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59943 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2006 18:09:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jan 2006 18:09:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.53) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2006 18:09:26 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jan 2006 18:06:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.72] by mailer7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jan 2006 18:06:24 -0000 Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 18:06:23 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.53 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: From Jesus to Christ --- The First Christians: PBS website, video & book X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=hGFG8SJvgffC7IJIGc_JiKjU436dA1WshU6KmNy5ijIFYOVLRa7S7Ju_ X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell >From Jesus to Christ --- The First Christians: PBS website, video &=20 book=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D A period of forty years separates the death of Jesus from the=20 writing of the first gospel. History offers us little direct=20 evidence about the events of this period, but it does suggest that=20 the early Christians were engaged in one of the most basic of human=20 activities: story-telling.=20 In the words of Mike White, "It appears that between the death of=20 Jesus and the writing of the first gospel, Mark, that they clearly=20 are telling stories. They're passing on the tradition of what=20 happened to Jesus, what he stood for and what he did, orally, by=20 telling it and retelling it. And in the process they are defining=20 Jesus for themselves." =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Read more at: http://blavatskyarchives.com/from_jesus_to_christ.htm Daniel http://hpb.cc From dalval14@earthlink.net Sat Jan 07 11:07:31 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83141 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2006 19:07:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jan 2006 19:07:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.65) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2006 19:07:30 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EvJP8-0008N1-Hr; Sat, 07 Jan 2006 14:07:07 -0500 To: Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 11:06:52 -0800 Message-ID: <002401c613bd$895c92d0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <2a7006300601070520o2235d588g11aad44833adbc46@mail.gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7965e9b4fbdc5754b24084f3630d2b6318350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.65 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: Stigmata & Tetrology X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=g25p8rymd2eUHRmTMXpdP6dkmVoxPhIs558-dOP9Sy8Nng X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/7/2006 11:00 AM RE: Stigmata & Tetrology Here are examples given by HPB: STIGMATA .DOC =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D STIGMATA & TETROLOGY =93But, despite materialistic skepticism, man does possess such a power, as= we see manifested in the above instances. When psychology and physiology becom= e worthy of the name of sciences, Europeans will be convinced of the weird an= d formidable potency existing in the human will and imagination, whether exercised consciously or otherwise. And yet, how easy to realize such power in spirit, if we only think of that grand truism in nature that every most insignificant atom in it is moved by spirit, which is one in its essence, for the least particle of it represents the whole; and that matter is but the concrete copy of the abstract idea, after all. In this connection, let us cite a few instances of the imperial power of even the unconscious will, to create according to the imagination or rather the faculty of discerning images in the astral light.=20 We have but to recall the very familiar phenomenon of stigmata, or birth-marks, where effects are produced by the involuntary agency of the maternal imagination under a state of excitement.=20 The fact that the mother can control the appearance of her unborn child was so well known among the ancients, that it was the custom among wealthy Greeks to place fine statues near the bed, so that she might have a perfect model constantly before her eyes. The cunning trick by which the Hebrew patriarch Jacob caused ring-streaked and speckled calves to be dropped, is an illustration of the law among animals; and Aricante tells "of four successive litters of puppies, born of healthy parents, some of which, in each litter, were well formed, whilst the remainder were without anterior extremities and had harelip."=20 The works of Geoffroi St. Hilaire, Burdach, and Elam, contain accounts of great numbers of such cases, and in Dr. Prosper Lucas's important volume, Sur l'Heredit=E9 Naturelle, there are many. Elam quotes from Prichard an instance where the child of a negro and white was marked with black and white color upon separate parts of the body. He adds, with laudable sincerity, "These are singularities of which, in the present state of science, no explanation can be given." * It is a pity that his example was not more generally imitated. Among the ancients Empedocles, Aristotle, Pliny, Hippocrates, Galen, Marcus Damascenus, and others give us accounts quite as wonderful as our contemporary authors. =93 I U I 384 =93Science tells us that the law of gravitation assures us that any displacement which takes place in the very heart of the earth will be felt throughout the universe, "and we may even imagine that the same thing will hold true of those molecular motions which accompany thought." * Speaking of the transmission of energy throughout the universal ether or astral light, the same authority says: "Continual photographs of all occurrences are thus produced and retained.=20 A large portion of the energy of the universe may thus be said to be invested in such pictures."=20 Dr. Fourni=E9, of the National Deaf and Dumb Institute of France, in chapte= r ii. of his work, =86 in discussing the question of the f=9Ctus, says that t= he most powerful microscope is unable to show us the slightest difference between the ovarian cell of a mammifer and a man; and, respecting the first or last movement of the ovule, asks: "What is it? has it particular characters which distinguish it from every other ovule?" and justly answers thus: "Until now, science has not replied to these questions, and, without being a pessimist, I do not think that she ever will reply; from the day when her methods of investigation will permit her to surprise the hidden mechanism of the conflict of the principle of life with matter, she will know life itself, and be able to produce it." If our author had read the sermon of Pere Felix, how appropriately he might utter his Amen! to the priest's exclamation =97 MYSTERY! MYSTERY!=20 Let us consider the assertion of Magendie in the light of recorded instance= s of the power of imagination in producing monstrous deformities, where the question does not involve pregnant women. He admits that these occur daily in the offspring of the lower animals; how does he account for the hatching of chickens with hawk-heads, except upon the theory that the appearance of the hereditary enemy acted upon the hen's imagination, which, in its turn, imparted to the matter composing the germ a certain motion which, before expanding itself, produced the monstrous chicks?=20 We know of an analogous case, where a tame dove, [398] belonging to a lady of our acquaintance, was frightened daily by a parrot, and in her next broo= d of young there were two squabs with parrots' heads, the resemblance even extending to the color of the feathers. We might also cite Columella, Youatt, and other authorities, together with the experience of all animal breeders, to show that by exciting the imagination of the mother, the external appearance of the offspring can be largely controlled. These instances in no degree affect the question of heredity, for they are simply special variations of type artificially caused.=20 Catherine Crowe discusses at considerable length the question of the power of the mind over matter, and relates, in illustration, many well-authenticated instances of the same.* Among others, that most curious phenomenon called the stigmata have a decided bearing upon this point. Thes= e marks come upon the bodies of persons of all ages, and always as the result of exalted imagination.=20 In the cases of the Tyrolese ecstatic, Catherine Emmerich, and many others, the wounds of the crucifixion are said to be as perfect as nature. A certai= n Mme. B. von N. dreamed one night that a person offered her a red and a whit= e rose, and that she chose the latter. On awaking, she felt a burning pain in her arm, and by degrees there appeared the figure of a rose, perfect in for= m and color; it was rather raised above the skin. The mark increased in intensity till the eighth day, after which it faded away, and by the fourteenth, was no longer perceptible.=20 Two young ladies, in Poland, were standing by an open window during a storm= ; a flash of lightning fell near them, and the gold necklace on the neck of one of them was melted. A perfect image of it was impressed upon the skin, and remained throughout life. The other girl, appalled by the accident to her companion, stood transfixed with horror for several minutes, and then fainted away. Little by little the same mark of a necklace as had been instantaneously imprinted upon her friend's body, appeared upon her own, an= d remained there for several years, when it gradually disappeared.=20 Dr. Justinus Kerner, the distinguished German author, relates a still more extraordinary case. "At the time of the French invasion, a Cossack having pursued a Frenchman into a cul-de-sac, an alley without an outlet, there ensued a terrible conflict between them, in which the latter was severely wounded. A person who had taken refuge in this close, and could not get away, was so dreadfully frightened, that when he reached home there broke out on his body the very same wounds that the Cossack had inflicted on his enemy!"=20 In this case, as in those where organic disorders, and even physical [399] death result from a sudden excitement of the mind reacting upon the body, Magendie would find it difficult to attribute the effect to any other cause than the imagination; and if he were an occultist, like Paracelsus, or Van Helmont, the question would be stripped of its mystery. He would understand the power of the human will and imagination =97 the former conscious, the latter involuntary =97 on the universal agent to inflict injury, physical a= nd mental, not only upon chosen victims, but also, by reflex action, upon one'= s self and unconsciously.=20 It is one of the fundamental principles of magic, that if a current of this subtile fluid is not impelled with sufficient force to reach the objective point, it will react upon the individual sending it, as an India-rubber bal= l rebounds to the thrower's hand from the wall against which it strikes without being able to penetrate it. There are many cases instanced where would-be sorcerers fell victims themselves. Van Helmont says: "The imaginative power of a woman vividly excited produces an idea, which is the connecting medium between the body and spirit. This transfers itself to the being with whom the woman stands in the most immediate relation, and impresses upon it that image which the most agitated herself."=20 Deleuze has collected, in his Biblioth=E8que du Magnetisme Animal, a number= of remarkable facts taken from Van Helmont, among which we will content ourselves with quoting the following as pendants to the case of the bird-hunter, Jacques Pelissier. He says that "men by looking steadfastly at animals oculis intentis for a quarter of an hour may cause their death; which Rousseau confirms from his own experience in Egypt and the East, as having killed several toads in this manner. But when he at last tried this at Lyons, the toad, finding it could not escape from his eye, turned round, blew itself up, and stared at him so fiercely, without moveing its eyes, that a weakness came over him even to fainting, and he was for some time thought to be dead."=20 But to return to the question of teratology. Wierus tells, in his De Pr=E6stigiis Demonum, of a child born of a woman who not long before its bi= rth was threatened by her husband, he saying that she had the devil in her and that he would kill him. The mother's fright was such that her offspring appeared "well-shaped from the middle downward, but upward spotted with blackened red spots, with eyes in his forehead, a mouth like a Satyr, ears like a dog, and bended horns on its head like a goat."=20 In a demonological work by Peramatus, there is a story of a monster born at St. Lawrence, in the West Indies, in the year 1573, the genuineness of whic= h is certified to by the Duke of Medina-Sidonia. The child, "besides the horrible deformity of its mouth, ears, and nose, had two horns on the head, like those of young goats, long hair on his body, a fleshy girdle about his middle, double, from whence hung a piece [400] of flesh like a purse, and a bell of flesh in his left hand like those the Indians use when they dance, white boots of flesh on his legs, doubled down. In brief, the whole shape was horrid and diabolical, and conceived to proceed from some fright the mother had taken from the antic dances of the Indians." * Dr. Fisher reject= s all such instances as unauthenticated and fabulous.=20 But we will not weary the reader with further selections from the multitude of teratological cases to be found recorded in the works of standard authors; the above suffice to show that there is reason to attribute these aberrations of physiological type to the mutual reaction of the maternal mind and the universal ether upon each other.=20 Lest some should question the authority of Van Helmont, as a man of science= , we will refer them to the work of Fourni=E9, the well-known physiologist, where (at page 717) the following estimate of his character will be found: "Van Helmont was a highly distinguished chemist; he had particularly studie= d =E6riform fluids, and gave them the name of gaz; at the same time he pushed his piety to mysticism, abandoning himself exclusively to a contemplation o= f the divinity. . . .=20 Van Helmont is distinguished above all his predecessors by connecting the principle of life, directly and in some sort experimentally, as he tells us= , with the most minute movements of the body. It is the incessant action of this entity, in no way associated by him with the material elements, but forming a distinct individuality, that we cannot understand. Nevertheless, it is upon this entity that a famous school has laid its principal foundation."=20 Van Helmont's "principle of life," or arch=E6us, is neither more nor less t= han the astral light of all the kabalists, and the universal ether of modern science. If the more unimportant signatures of the f=9Ctus are not due to t= he imagination of the mother, to what other cause would Magendie attribute the formation of horny scales, the horns of goats and the hairy coats of animals, which we have seen in the above instances marking monstrous progeny? Surely there were no latent germs of these distinguishing features of the animal kingdom capable of being developed under a sudden impulse of the maternal fancy. In short, the only possible explanation is the one offered by the adepts in the occult sciences.=20 Before leaving the subject, we wish to say a few words more respecting the cases where the head, arm, and hand were instantly dissolved, though it was evident that in each instance the entire body of the child had been perfectly formed. Of what is a child's body composed at its birth? The chemists will tell us that it comprises a dozen pounds of solidified gas, and a few ounces of ashy residuum, some water, oxygen, [401] hydrogen, nitrogen, carbonic acid, a little lime, magnesia, phosphorus, and a few other minerals; that is all! Whence came they? How were they gathered together? How were these particles which Mr. Proctor tells us are drawn in from "the depths of space surrounding us on all sides," formed and fashione= d into the human being?=20 We have seen that it is useless to ask the dominant school of which Magendi= e is an illustrious representative; for he confesses that they know nothing o= f the nutrition, digestion, or circulation of the f=9Ctus; and physiology teaches us that while the ovule is enclosed in the Graafian vesicle it participates =97 forms an integral part of the general structure of the mother. Upon the rupture of the vesicle, it becomes almost as independent o= f her for what is to build up the body of the future being as the germ in a bird's egg after the mother has dropped it in the nest. There certainly is very little in the demonstrated facts of science to contradict the idea tha= t the relation of the embryonic child to the mother is much different from that of the tenant to the house, upon whose shelter he depends for health, warmth, and comfort.=20 According to Demokritus, the soul * results from the aggregation of atoms, and Plutarch describes his philosophy as follows: "That there are substance= s infinite in number, indivisible, undisturbed, which are without differences= , without qualities, and which move in space, where they are disseminated; that when they approach each other, they unite, interlock, and form by thei= r aggregation water, fire, a plant, or a man. That all these substances, whic= h he calls atoms by reason of their solidity, can experience neither change nor alteration. But," adds Plutarch, "we cannot make a color of that which is colorless, nor a substance or soul of that which is without soul and without quality."=20 Professor Balfour Stewart says that this doctrine, in the hands of John Dalton, "has enabled the human mind to lay hold of the laws which regulate chemical changes, as well as to picture to itself what is there taking place." After quoting, with approbation, Bacon's idea that men are perpetually investigating the extreme limits of nature, he then erects a standard which he and his brother philosophers would do well to measure their behavior by. "Surely we ought," says he, "to be very cautious before we dismiss any branch of knowledge or train of thought as essentially unprofitable." =86 Brave words, these. But how many are the men of science who put them into practice?=20 =97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97= =97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97 * By the word soul, neither Demokritus nor the other philosophers understoo= d the nous or pneuma, the divine immaterial soul, but the psyche, or astral body; that which Plato always terms the second mortal soul.=20 ---------------------------------------------------------- [402] Demokritus of Abdera shows us space crammed with atoms, and our contemporary astronomers allow us to see how these atoms form into worlds, and afterward into the races, our own included, which people them. Since we have indicated the existence of a power in the human will, which, by concentrating currents of those atoms upon an objective point, can create a child corresponding to the mother's fancy, why is it not perfectly credible that this same power put forth by the mother, can, by an intense, albeit unconscious reversal of those currents, dissipate and obliterate any portio= n or even the whole of the body of her unborn child? And here comes in the question of false pregnancies, which have so often completely puzzled both physician and patient. If the head, arm, and hand of the three children mentioned by Van Helmont could disappear, as a result of the emotion of horror, why might not the same or some other emotion, excited in a like degree, cause the entire extinction of the f=9Ctus in so-called false pregnancy? Such cases are rare, but they do occur, and moreover baffle science completely.=20 There certainly is no chemical solvent in the mother's circulation powerful enough to dissolve her child, without destroying herself. We commend the subject to the medical profession, hoping that as a class they will not adopt the conclusion of Fournie, who says: "In this succession of phenomena we must confine ourselves to the office of historian, as we have not even tried to explain the whys and wherefores of these things, for there lie the inscrutable mysteries of life, and in proportion as we advance in our exposition, we will be obliged to recognize that this is to us forbidden ground." *=20 Within the limits of his intellectual capabilities the true philosopher knows no forbidden ground, and should be content to accept no mystery of nature as inscrutable or inviolable.=20 No student of Hermetic philosophy, nor any spiritualist, will object to the abstract principle laid down by Hume that a miracle is impossible; for to suppose such a possibility would make the universe governed through special instead of general laws. This is one of the fundamental contradictions between science and theology.=20 The former, reasoning upon universal experience, maintains that there is a general uniformity of the course of nature, while the latter assumes that the Governing Mind can be invoked to suspend general law to suit special emergencies. Says John Stuart Mill,=86"If we do not already believe in supernatural agencies, no miracle can prove to us their existence. The miracle itself, considered merely as an extraordinary fact, may be satisfactorily certified by our senses or by testimony; but nothing can eve= r prove that it is a miracle. =93 I U I 397 =96 402 --------------------------------------------- Best Wishes, Dallas =20 -----Original Message----- From: Odin [mailto:otownley@gmail.com]=20 Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 5:21 AM To: Jerome Wheeler; Reed; Dallas Subject: Stigmatas Stigmas indicate their carriers are either saints or insane Pravda - Moscow,Russia ... carriers. Thousands of people believe that stigma is the charisma. But one of theosophy schools states that stigma is Satan's sign. The From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Sat Jan 07 11:45:18 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27922 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2006 19:45:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jan 2006 19:45:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mx02.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.12) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2006 19:45:17 -0000 Received: from 56347a74.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.122.116] helo=khidr6094418a5) by mx02.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1EvJwu-0000Ll-34 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 07 Jan 2006 20:42:03 +0100 Message-ID: <000a01c613c3$047e14c0$747a3456@khidr6094418a5> To: Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 20:46:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.12 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "M. Sufilight" Subject: El-Khidr - Avatar and Christ principle X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=L9wy7R__lLvFEIGykhItb1gjtu11mKjO8XqbjOZAe0n4 X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hallo all, The following might be interesting to some of the readers. THE SECRET TEACHER (Idries Shah from "Thinkers of the East") A man found the secret teacher Khidr working as a ferryman. Khidr read his thoughts, and said to him: "If I approach people in the street and tell them what to do, they will think I am mad, or am doing it for myself, and they will not do it. If I dress like a learned or rich man, and advise them, they will disobey or else simply try to please me, instead of trying to please that which I represent. But if I mix with the people and say a word here and a word there, some will listen, just as you yourself recognized me, and a thousand others did not." A few words on El-Khidr, good and evil. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Khidr from M. Sufilight with peace and love... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From arhat_buddhism@yahoo.com Sat Jan 07 13:30:24 2006 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 42563 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2006 21:30:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jan 2006 21:30:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.37) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2006 21:30:22 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jan 2006 21:30:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by mailer5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jan 2006 21:30:19 -0000 X-Sender: arhat_buddhism@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 35460 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2006 17:25:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jan 2006 17:25:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web54702.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.192) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2006 17:25:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 41404 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Jan 2006 17:24:13 -0000 Message-ID: <20060107172413.41402.qmail@web54702.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [201.0.6.104] by web54702.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 07 Jan 2006 09:24:13 PST Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 09:24:13 -0800 (PST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.49.192 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Bhikshuni Ariya Subject: Re: Theos-World Prove Christ exists, judge orders priest X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218337227; y=oAPqL6vJSdRNPCwGF8XK9N7ink_Z56xKfvuFDGb4pc0fxgU4NjWeAa4 X-Yahoo-Profile: arhat_buddhism Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: eldon_tucker via web; 07 Jan 2006 21:30:17 -0000 danielhcaldwell wrote: Today at the Drudge Report , in the middle column, I found the following link! Did Jesus exist? Italian court to decide http://tinyurl.com/cldlg See also: Prove Christ exists, judge orders priest http://tinyurl.com/bhr2a See description of the book FABLE OF CHRIST mentioned in the above two articles at: http://www.luigicascioli.it/home_eng.php Daniel http://hpb.cc Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sat Jan 07 15:03:56 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1444 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2006 23:03:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Jan 2006 23:03:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.35) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2006 23:03:52 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jan 2006 23:02:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by mailer1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Jan 2006 23:02:50 -0000 Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 23:02:48 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.35 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: Col. Henry S. Olcott's Testimony to the Existence of the Master Morya X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=Xo87iUB88XpZ94WxkwFu2Ybpr0GjEDoWyukwOOxgvgLxgOV6WNQS46uK X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Colonel Henry S. Olcott's Testimony=20 to the Existence of the Master Morya [draft copy] See: http://blavatskyarchives.com/olcottandmahatmas.htm Daniel http://blavatskyarchives.com From dalval14@earthlink.net Sat Jan 07 17:38:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64554 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2006 01:38:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2006 01:38:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.65) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2006 01:38:58 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EvPW7-0003QM-23; Sat, 07 Jan 2006 20:38:43 -0500 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 17:38:24 -0800 Message-ID: <004a01c613f4$3e157760$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec797d1a7495f6044345a2a5161f264c3010350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.65 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: HPB -- GENIUS -- & REINCARNATION X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=Q__-WT3IPkcJQ-NubStkhlGdbcCCYlsYZbIEvc5Ak6zawg X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 January 7, 2006 GENIUS by H. P. Blavatsky Genius! thou gift of Heaven, thou light divine!=20 Amid what dangers art thou doom'd to shine.= =20 Oft will the body's weakness check thy force,=20 Oft damp thy vigour, and impede thy course;= =20 And trembling nerves compel thee to restrai= n Thy nobler efforts to contend with pain; Or want, sad guest! . . . =20 --CRABBE AMONG many problems hitherto unsolved in the Mystery of Mind, stands prominent the question of Genius. Whence, and what is genius, its raison d'=EAtre, the causes of its excessive rarity? Is it indeed "a gift of Heave= n"? And if so, why such gifts to one, and dullness of intellect, or even idiocy= , the doom of another? To regard the appearance of men and women of genius as a mere accident, a prize of blind chance, or, as dependent on physical causes alone, is only thinkable to a materialist. As an author truly says, there remains then, only this alternative: to agree with the believer in a personal god "to refer the appearance of every single individual to a special act of divine will and creative energy," or "to recognize, in the whole succession of such individuals, one great act of some will, expressed in an eternal inviolable law."=20 Genius, as Coleridge defined it, is certainly--to every outward appearance, at least--"the faculty of growth"; yet to the inward intuition of man, it i= s a question whether it is genius--an abnormal aptitude of mind--that develop= s and grows, or the physical brain, its vehicle, which becomes through some mysterious process fitter to receive and manifest from within outwardly the innate and divine nature of man's over-soul.=20 Perchance, in their unsophisticated wisdom, the philosophers of old were nearer truth than are our modern wiseacres, when they endowed man with a tutelar deity, a Spirit whom they called genius. The substance of this entity, to say nothing of its essence--observe the distinction, reader,--an= d the presence of both, manifests itself according to the organism of the person it informs. As Shakespeare says of the genius of great men--what we perceive of his substance "is not here"=97 For what you see is but the smallest part. = . . . But were the whole frame here, It is of such a spacious, lofty pitch, Your roof were not sufficient to contain it= . . . . This is precisely what the Esoteric philosophy teaches.=20 The flame of genius is lit by no anthropomorphic hand, save that of one's own Spirit. It is the very nature of the Spiritual Entity itself, of our Ego, which keeps on weaving new life-woofs into the web of reincarnation on the loom of time, from the beginnings to the ends of the great Life-Cycle.1 =20 This it is that asserts itself stronger than in the average man, through it= s personality; so that what we call "the manifestations of genius" in a person, are only the more or less successful efforts of that EGO to assert itself on the outward plane of its objective form--the man of clay--in the matter-of-fact, daily life of the latter.=20 The EGOS of a Newton, an =C6schylus, or a Shakespeare, are of the same esse= nce and substance as the Egos of a yokel, an ignoramus, a fool, or even an idiot; and the self-assertion of their informing genii depends on the physiological and material construction of the physical man.=20 No Ego differs from another Ego, in its primordial or original essence and nature.=20 That which makes one mortal a great man and of another a vulgar, silly person is, as said, the quality and make-up of the physical shell or casing= , and the adequacy or inadequacy of brain and body to transmit and give expression to the light of the real, Inner man; and this aptness or in aptness is, in its turn, the result of Karma.=20 Or, to use another simile, physical man is the musical instrument, and the Ego, the performing artist. The potentiality of perfect melody of sound, is in the former--the instrument--and no skill of the latter can awaken a faultless harmony out of a broken or badly made instrument. This harmony depends on the fidelity of transmission, by word or act, to the objective plane, of the unspoken divine thought in the very depths of man's subjectiv= e or inner nature. Physical man may--to follow our simile--be a priceless Stradivarius or a cheap and cracked fiddle, or again a mediocrity between the two, in the hands of the Paganini who ensouls him.=20 All ancient nations knew this. But though all had their Mysteries and their Hierophants, not all could be equally taught the great metaphysical doctrine; and while a few elect received such truths at their initiation, the masses were allowed to approach them with the greatest caution and only within the farthest limits of fact.=20 "From the DIVINE ALL proceeded Amun, the Divine Wisdom . . . give it not to the unworthy," says a Book of Hermes. Paul, the "wise Master-Builder,"2 (I Cor. III, 10) but echoes Thoth-Hermes when telling the Corinthians "We spea= k Wisdom among them that are perfect (the initiated) . . . divine Wisdom in a MYSTERY, even the hidden Wisdom." (Ibid. II, 7.)=20 Yet, to this day the Ancients are accused of blasphemy and fetishism for their "hero worship." But have the modern historians ever fathomed the caus= e of such "worship"! We believe not. Otherwise they would be the first to become aware that that which was "worshipped," or rather that to which honours were rendered was neither the man of clay, nor the personality--the Hero or Saint So-and-So, which still prevails on the Roman Church, a church which beatifies the body rather than the soul--but the divine imprisoned Spirit, the exiled "god" within that personality. Who, in the profane world= , is aware that even the majority of the magistrates (the Archons of Athens, mistranslated in the Bible as "Princes")--whose official duty it was to prepare the city for such processions, were ignorant of the true significance of the alleged "worship"?=20 Verily was Paul right in declaring that "we speak wisdom . . . not the wisdom of this world . . . which none of the Archons of this (profane) worl= d knew," but the hidden wisdom of the MYSTERIES. For, as again the Epistle of the apostle implies, the language of the Initiates and their secrets no profane, not even an "Archon" or ruler outside the fane of the sacred Mysteries, knoweth; none "save the Spirit of man (the Ego) which is in him.= " (Ib. v, II.)=20 Were Chapters II and III of I Corinthians ever translated in the Spirit in which they were written--even their dead letter is now disfigured--the worl= d might receive strange revelations. Among other things it would have a key t= o many hitherto unexplained rites of ancient Paganism, one of which is the mystery of this same Hero-worship. And it would learn that if the streets o= f the city that honoured one such man were strewn with roses for the passage of the Hero of the day, if every citizen was called to bow in reverence to him who was so feasted, and if both priest and poet vied in their zeal to immortalize the hero's name after his death--occult philosophy tells us the reason why this was done.=20 "Behold," it saith, "in every manifestation of genius--when combined with virtue--in the warrior or the Bard, the great painter, artist, statesman or man of Science, who soars high above the heads of the vulgar herd, the undeniable presence of the celestial exile, the divine Ego whose jailor tho= u art, Oh man of matter!"=20 Thus, that which we call deification applied to the immortal God within, no= t to the dead walls of the human tabernacle that contained him. And this was done in tacit and silent recognition of the efforts made by the divine captive who, under the most adverse circumstances of incarnation, still succeeded in manifesting himself.=20 Occultism, therefore, teaches nothing new in asserting the above philosophical axiom. Enlarging upon the broad metaphysical truism, it only gives it a finishing touch by explaining certain details.=20 It teaches, for instance, that the presence in man of various creative powers--called genius in their collection--is due to no blind chance, to no innate qualities through hereditary tendencies--though that which is known as atavism may often intensify these faculties --but to an accumulation of individual antecedent experiences of the Ego in its preceding life, and lives. For, though omniscient in its essence and nature, it still requires experience through its personalities of the things of earth, earthy on the objective plane, in order to apply the fruition of that abstract omniscienc= e to them. And, adds our philosophy--the cultivation of certain aptitudes throughout a long series of past incarnations must finally culminate in som= e one life, in a blooming forth as genius, in one or another direction.=20 Great Genius, therefore, if true and innate, and not merely an abnormal expansion of our human intellect--can never copy or condescend to imitate, but will ever be original, sui generis in its creative impulses and realizations.=20 Like those gigantic Indian lilies that shoot out from the clefts and fissures of the cloud-nursing, and bare rocks on the highest plateaux of th= e Nilgiri Hills, true Genius needs but an opportunity to spring forth into existence and blossom in the sight of all in the most arid soil, for its stamp is always unmistakable.=20 To use a popular saying, innate genius, like murder, will out sooner or later, and the more it will have been suppressed and hidden, the greater will be the flood of light thrown by the sudden eruption. On the other hand artificial genius, so often confused with the former, and which, in truth, is but the outcome of long studies and training, will never be more than, s= o to say, the flame of a lamp burning outside the portal of the pane; it may throw a long trail of light across road, but it leaves the inside of the building in darkness.=20 And, as every faculty and property in Nature is dual--i.e., each may be mad= e to serve two ends, evil as well as good--so will artificial genius betray itself. Born out of the chaos of terrestrial sensations, of perceptive and retentive faculties, yet of finite memory, it will ever remain the slave of its body; and that body, owing to its unreliability and the natural tendenc= y of matter to confusion, will not fail to lead even the greatest genius, so called, back into its own primordial element, which is chaos again, or evil= , or earth.=20 Thus between the true and the artificial genius, one born from the light of the immortal Ego, the other from the evanescent will-o'-the-wisp of the terrestrial or purely human intellect and the animal soul, there is a chasm= , to be spanned only by him who aspires ever onward; who never loses sight, even when in the depths of matter, of that guiding star the Divine Soul and mind, or what we call Buddhi-Manas.=20 The latter does not require, as does the former, cultivation. The words of the poet who asserts that the lamp of genius=97 If not protected, pruned, and fed with care= , Soon dies, or runs to waste with fitful glare=97 --can apply only to artificial genius, the outcome of cultural and of purel= y intellectual acuteness.=20 It is not the direct light of the Manasa putra, the "Sons of Wisdom," for true genius lit at the flame of our higher nature, or the EGO, cannot die.= =20 This is why it is so very rare. Lavater calculated that "the proportion of genius (in general) to the vulgar, is like one to a million; but genius without tyranny, without pretension, that judges the weak with equity, the superior with humanity, and equals with justice, is like one in ten millions." This is indeed interesting, though not too complimentary to huma= n nature, if, by "genius,"=20 Lavater had in mind only the higher sort of human intellect, unfolded by cultivation, "protected, pruned, and fed," and not the genius we speak of. Moreover such genius is always apt to lead to the extremes of weal or woe him through whom this artificial light of the terrestrial mind manifests. Like the good and bad genii of old with whom human genius is made so appropriately to share the name, it takes its helpless possessor by the han= d and leads him, one day to the pinnacles of fame, fortune, and glory, but to plunge him on the following day into an abyss of shame, despair, often of crime.=20 But as, according to the great Physiognomist, there is more of the former than of the latter kind of genius in this our world, because, as Occultism teaches us, it is easier for the personality with its acute physical senses and tatwas to gravitate toward the lower quaternary than to soar to its triad--modern philosophy, though quite proficient in treating this lower place of genius, knows nothing of its higher spiritual form--the "one in te= n millions."=20 Thus it is only natural that confusing one with the other, the best modern writers should have failed to define true genius. As a consequence, we continually hear and read a good deal of that which to the Occultist seems quite paradoxical. "Genius requires cultivation," says one; "Genius is vain and self-sufficient" declares another; while a third will go on defining th= e divine light but to dwarf it on the Procrustean bed of his own intellectual narrow-mindedness.=20 He will talk of the great eccentricity of genius, and allying it as a general rule with an "inflammable constitution," will even show it "a prey to every passion but seldom delicacy of taste!" (Lord Kaimes.) It is useles= s to argue with such, or telll them that, original, and great genius puts out the most dazzling rays of human intellectuality, as the sun quenches the flame-light of a fire in an open field; that it is never eccentric, though always sui generis; and that no man endowed with true genius can ever give way to his physical animal passions.=20 In the view of an humble Occultist, only such a grand altruistic character as that of Buddha or Jesus, and of their few close imitators, can be regarded, in our historical cycle, as fully developed GENIUS.=20 Hence, true genius has small chance indeed of receiving its due in our age of conventionalities, hypocrisy and time-serving. As the world grows in civilization, it expands in fierce selfishness, and stones its true prophet= s and geniuses for the benefit of its aping shadows.=20 THE GREAT PEOPLE'S HEART=20 Alone the surging masses of the ignorant millions, the great people's heart= , arc capable of sensing intuitionally a true "great soul" full of divine lov= e for mankind, of god-like compassion for suffering man.=20 Hence the populace alone is still capable of recognizing a genius, as without such qualities no man has a right to the name.=20 R C CHURCH & CIVILIZATION No genius can be now found in Church or State, and this is proven on their own admission. It seems a long time since in the XIII century the "Angelic Doctor" snubbed Pope Innocent IV who, boasting of the millions got by him from the sale of absolutions and indulgences, remarked to Aquinas that "the age of the Church is past in which she said 'Silver and gold have I none'!" "True," was the ready reply; "but the age is also past when she could say t= o a paralytic, 'Rise up and walk'."=20 And yet from that time, and far, far earlier, to our own day the hourly crucifixion of their ideal Master both by Church and State has never ceased= . While every Christian State breaks with its laws and customs, with every commandment given in the Sermon on the Mount, the Christian Church justifie= s and approves of this through her own Bishops who despairingly proclaim "A Christian State impossible on Christian Principles." Hence--no Christ-like (or "Buddha-like") way of life is possible in civilized States.=20 The occultist then, to whom "true genius is a synonym of self-existent and infinite mind," mirrored more or less faithfully by man, fails to find in the modern definitions of the term anything approaching correctness. In its turn the esoteric interpretation of Theosophy is sure to be received with derision.=20 The very idea that every man with a "soul" in him is the vehicle of=20 (a) genius will appear supremely absurd, even to believers, while the materialist will fall foul of it as a "crass superstition." As to the popular feeling--the only approximately correct one because purely intuitional, it will not be even taken into account.=20 The same elastic and convenient epithet "superstition" will, once more, be made to explain why there never was yet a universally recognised genius--whether of one or the other kind--without a certain amount of weird= , fantastic and often uncanny, tales and legends attaching themselves to so unique a character, dogging and even surviving him.=20 THE GREAT PEOPLE'S HEART Yet it is the unsophisticated alone, and therefore only the so-called uneducated masses, just because of that lack of sophistically reasoning in them, who feel, whenever coming in contact with an abnormal, out-of-the-way character, that there is in him something more than the mercy mortal man of flesh and intellectual attributes.=20 And feeling themselves in the presence of that which in the enormous majority is ever hidden, of something incomprehensible to their matter-or-fact minds, they experience the same awe that popular masses felt in days of old when their fancy, often more unerring than cultured reason, created of their heroes gods, teaching:=20 . . . . The weak to bent, the proud to pray= =20 To powers unseen and mightier than they . . . =20 This is now called SUPERSTITION . . .=20 But what is Superstition? True, we dread that which we cannot clearly explain to ourselves. Like children in the dark we are all of us apt, the educated equally with the ignorant. to people that darkness with phantoms o= f our own creation; but these "phantoms" prove in no wise that that "darkness"--which is only another term for the invisible and the unseen--is really empty of any Presence save our own. So that if in its exaggerated form, "superstition" is a weird incubus, as a belief in things above and beyond our physical senses, yet it is also a modest acknowledgement that there are things in the universe, and around us, of which we know nothing. In this sense "superstition" becomes not an unreasonable feeling of half wonder and half dread, mixed with admiration and reverence, or with fear, according to the dictates of our intuition. And this is far more reasonable than to repeat with the too-learned wiseacres that there is nothing "nothin= g whatever, in that darkness"; nor can there be anything since they, the wiseacres, have failed to discern it.=20 E pur se muove! Where there is smoke there must be fire; where there is a steamy vapour there must be water. Our claim rests but upon one eternal axiomatic truth: nihil sine causa. Genius and undeserved suffering, prove a= n immortal Ego and Reincarnation in our world. As for the rest, i.e., the obloquy and derision with which such theosophical doctrines are met, Fielding--a sort of Genius in his way, too--has covered our answer over a century ago. Never did he utter a greater truth than on the day he wrote that "If superstition makes a man a fool, SKEPTICISM MAKES HIM MAD."=20 H P B Lucifer, November, 1889=20 =20 l The period of one full Manvantara composed of Seven Rounds.=20 2 A term absolutely theurgic, masonic and occult. Paul, by using it, declares himself an Initiate having the right to initiate others.=20 =20 Dallas =20 From waking.adept@gmail.com Sat Jan 07 19:03:11 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: waking.adept@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85956 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2006 03:03:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2006 03:03:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wproxy.gmail.com) (64.233.184.207) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2006 03:03:10 -0000 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i7so1133509wra for ; Sat, 07 Jan 2006 19:03:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.115.10 with SMTP id s10mr2212706qbm; Sat, 07 Jan 2006 19:03:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.123.10 with HTTP; Sat, 7 Jan 2006 19:03:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 22:03:09 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <004a01c613f4$3e157760$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline References: <004a01c613f4$3e157760$0a0110ac@DALLAS> X-Originating-IP: 64.233.184.207 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Mark Hamilton Jr." Subject: Re: Theos-World HPB -- GENIUS -- & REINCARNATION X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219719026 VGhpcyBpcyBhbiBhbGwtdGltZSBmYXZvcml0ZSBvZiBtaW5lLiBJdCB3YXMgb25lIG9mIHRo ZSBmaXJzdCBhcnRpY2xlcwpJIHJlYWQgZnJvbSBCbGF2YXRza3kgYWZ0ZXIgbXkgaW5pdGlh bCBpbnZlc3RpZ2F0aW9uIGludG8gdGhlb3NvcGh5LiBJCnJlY29tbWVuZCBpdCBmb3IgYW55 b25lIHdobyBoYXMgYW55IGtpbmQgb2YgdW5leHBsYWluZWQgdmlzaW9ucywKbmF0dXJhbCBh ZmZpbml0eSB3aXRoIGNlcnRhaW4gdGhpbmdzLCBvciBhbnl0aGluZyBvZiB0aGUgc29ydC4K Ci1NYXJrIEguCgoKT24gMS83LzA2LCBXLkRhbGxhcyBUZW5Ccm9lY2sgPGRhbHZhbDE0QGVh cnRobGluay5uZXQ+IHdyb3RlOgo+IEphbnVhcnkgNywgMjAwNgo+Cj4KPgo+ICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBHRU5JVVMKPgo+ICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBieSBILiBQLiBCbGF2YXRza3kKPgo+Cj4gICAg 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bmcgaXQsCj4gZGVjbGFyZXMgaGltc2VsZiBhbiBJbml0aWF0ZSBoYXZpbmcgdGhlIHJpZ2h0 IHRvIGluaXRpYXRlIG90aGVycy4KPgo+Cj4KPgo+Cj4KPgo+Cj4KPgo+Cj4gRGFsbGFzCj4K Pgo+Cj4KPgo+Cj4KPiBZYWhvbyEgR3JvdXBzIExpbmtzCj4KPgo+Cj4KPgo+Cj4KCgotLQpN YXJrIEhhbWlsdG9uIEpyLgp3YWtpbmcuYWRlcHRAZ21haWwuY29tCg== From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun Jan 08 06:15:00 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46687 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2006 14:14:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2006 14:14:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.65) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2006 14:14:59 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EvbIX-0006qx-Hn; Sun, 08 Jan 2006 09:13:30 -0500 To: Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 06:13:11 -0800 Message-ID: <005d01c6145d$ae847c30$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec791c7359b10c5de2ca96f51407fbae61ab350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.65 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: developing the will X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=jV2Vr5CmKga95cb1azOG7dcAr4tp1HHq5cZTjRVzxI8d8g X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/8/2006 5:59 AM Dear Friends and LRA=20 You ask: "Dallas recently mentioned "indomitable will." Suggestions on how to=20 develop that great faculty will be welcomed." Here are some ideas to consider: WILL AND DESIRE -- HPB =09 Will is the exclusive possession of man on this our plane of consciousness. It divides him from the brute in whom instinctive desire only is active. Desire, in its widest application, is the one creative force in the Universe. In this sense it is indistinguishable from Will; but we men never know desire under this form while we remain only men. Therefore Will and Desire are here considered as opposed. Thus Will is the offspring of the Divine, the God in man; Desire the motive power of the animal life. Most of men live in and by desire, mistaking it for will. But he who would achieve must separate will from desire, and make his will the ruler; for desire is unstable and ever changing, while will is steady and constant. Both will and desire are absolute creators, forming the man himself and his surroundings. But will creates intelligently - desire blindly and unconsciously. The man, therefore, makes himself in the image of his desires, unless he creates himself in the likeness of the Divine, through his will, the child of the light. His task is twofold: to awaken the will, to strengthen it by use and conquest, to make it absolute ruler within his body; and, parallel with this, to purify desire. Knowledge and will are the tools for the accomplishment of this purification.=20 [Lucifer, Vol. I, No. 2, October, 1887, p. 96] (HPB Collected Writings, Vol. VIII, p. 109)=20=20 ---------------------------------------------------------- TRUE WILL, MOTIVE, THOUGHT READING, etc Q From J. What is true Will? Is it a faculty of the soul? How is it one with the Divine Will and how may we make our will at one with the Divine? Is it something which now we know not, or may we perceive its germ in our own Will, or is it an instinctive movement of the soul? Answer - (I) The will as known to man is that force which he exerts for the accomplishment of his aims - he uses it blindly and ignorantly - an= d self is always the one for which he uses it. It is used as a brute force. A= s ordinarily used it has little tendency to lift the personality farther than the attainment of material results. It has for its source, the lower elements of the soul. The true will is a concentrated force working steadil= y yet gently, dominating both soul and person, having its source in the spiri= t and highest elements of the soul. It is never used for the gratification of self, is inspired by the highest of motives, is never interposed to violate a law, but works in harmony with the unseen as well as the seen. It is manifested through the human will for things visible (2) It is more that a faculty of the soul, for it is the soul at work. The spirit is unmanifest except through the soul. The soul manifestin= g the spirit is the true will. The human will is the lowest form of this manifestation. (3) As the true will is the manifestation of the spirit through the soul, it must be at one with the divine, inasmuch as the spirit is the divine in man. It is the God in man, a portion of the all-pervading. Asserting itself through the soul, the true will is brought forth and in truth we say, "It is the will of God." We may make our finite wills at one with the divine by elevating our aim, using it for good or in the "search for God," in striving to find how to use it in harmony with the "laws of God." By proper use in the right direction the human will becomes purified, elevated, and being exerted only in conformity with our highest ideal, eventually becomes at one with the highest in man. In our ordinary material state we know only the human will. Through the human will we reach the divine will. We become aware of the true will through the ordinary will just as we become aware of the soul through the body. It is not instinctive of the soul. The soul is father of the human will - the spirit is father of the true will. ----------------------------------------------------- MOTIVE -- PURITY Q From E. "A great deal depends on purity of thought and motive," Oct. Path, p. 220.=20 Please explain what should be the actuating motive in developing psychic capacities. Answer - The desire to "find God," the desire to know one's self, our possibilities and capabilities, that we may be of true use to the world, these are the motives. The thought should be unselfish, undisturbed by material affairs - free from wonder-seeking curiosity, concentrated, and in entire accord with the motive, the "search for God." Q It might be the "ne plus ultra" at the time of entrance, but how after a period of years? Answer - All these states may be entered into while in the body. The condition of unsatisfied longing does not cease except in Nirvana. Beyond a certain point the intellect is useless. Up to and at that point the intellect is increased in its powers. It is never decayed or paralyzed. It is useless because a better tool is used. All states and conditions above the ordinary material are desirable. In the absolute sense, any "conditioned" existence is undesirable. "Advanced students" try to be free from desires. "Rupaloka" means place of form; "Arupaloka," place of no form. There are many Lokas -------------------------------------------------------------- THOUGHT READING Q How can I cultivate thought reading? The impressions received are involuntary. Answer - By continual exercise of the power. By concentrated thought in obedience to the will. By purifying the thoughts as well as the body. Bu= t your aim must be higher than the mere acquirement of a wonder-working power= , or you will fail. With all the power you possess concentrate your thought upon the object you desire, and receive that which is given by what is termed intuition. =09=09 WILL & ASTRAL BODY Q From M. - What steps must I take to open the heart so as to exercise the Will for governing the Astral body? Answer - There is but one way to open the heart. That is by living the life. It is a simple matter to govern the will, but this is not the tru= e will. The governing of the Astral body is the smallest of the tasks of the true will.=20 The will should be used to obtain wisdom, and when so used it will control the Astral body without effort. We should exert psychic powers only to benefit others, never to free ourselves from the disagreeable.=20 Let your aim be to "find God;" your motive, to know yourself for the sake o= f Theo-Sophia and humanity: you desire, to help humanity, and the True Will, will be developed, the heart opened and you will not only control the Astra= l body but all in the Astral. You must seek beyond the Astral for powers, but it is not wise to desire the acquisition of powers. Let your aim be beyond that, and the powers will grow of themselves.=20 If the strong-willed or sick depress you, seek to aid each in some way, forget that you are depressed, forget your self, and they will not affect you. The life of the Occult student is full of sorrow, anguish and depressing influences. These go to make him a student in the Occult.=20 A portion of his training is to become aware of these only in so far as the= y affect others. As to their affecting his own personality, he does not know they exist. If you desire to help humanity, then you possess the true motive. If you use your will in this cause, wisdom, peace and all the power= s will be given." W Q J Articles, II p. 451... =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D WILL and FREE WILL A basic idea is expressed as:=20=20 "Will is the force of any and all degrees of intelligence; it is inherent in consciousness as "the power to act." Q & A., p. 40 A curious discovery is made as one delves into the question of the Will, volition and choice. Is it free or not? The deeper one penetrates the more one finds that there are many degrees of bondage and freedom. In fact the ultimate "freedom" or "bondage" is indeterminable - just as the "beginning (or ending) of time," or, the "extent (or limits) of space," are not to be discovered. Man as a member of the group of evolving Thinkers (Humanity) is of two views. One is immortal and universal, because the triune Monad is deathless; and the other, due to his residence in matter for a life-time i= s personal, selfish and isolationist. Why is this so? It is because in Man three lines of evolution are to be found. In the S D [= I - p. 181] we find: ".there exists in Nature a triple evolutionary scheme, for the formation of the three periodical Upadhis; or rather three separate schemes of evolution= , which in our system are inextricably interwoven and interblended at every point. These are (1) the Monadic (or spiritual), (2) the intellectual, and (3) th= e physical evolutions.=20 These three are the finite aspects or the reflections on the field of Cosmi= c Illusion of ATMA, the seventh, the ONE REALITY.=20 1. The Monadic is, as the name implies, concerned with the growth and development into still higher phases of activity of the Monad in conjunctio= n with:- 2. The Intellectual, represented by the Manasa-Dhyanis (the Solar Devas, or the Agnishwatta Pitris) the "givers of intelligence and consciousness" [see S D II 167] to man and:- 3. The Physical, represented by the Chhayas ["astral bodies"] [see S D II 109-10] of the lunar Pitris, round which Nature has concreted the present physical body. This body serves as the vehicle for the "growth" (to use a misleading word) and the transformations through Manas and-owing to the accumulation of experiences-of the finite into the INFINITE, of the transient into the Eternal and Absolute.=20 Each of these three systems has its own laws, and is ruled and guided by different sets of the highest Dhyanis or "Logoi." Each is represented in th= e constitution of man, the Microcosm of the great Macrocosm; and it is the union of these three streams in him which makes him the complex being he no= w is.=20 "Nature," the physical evolutionary Power, could never evolve intelligence unaided-she can only create "senseless forms," . The "Lunar Monads" cannot progress, for they have not yet had sufficient touch with the forms created by "Nature" to allow of their accumulating experiences through its means. I= t is the Manasa-Dhyanis who fill up the gap, and they represent the evolutionary power of Intelligence and Mind, the link between "Spirit" and "Matter"-in this Round.=20 Also it must be born in mind that the Monads which enter upon the evolutionary cycle upon Globe A, in the first Round, are in very different stages of development. Hence the matter becomes somewhat complicated. . . Let us recapitulate.=20 The most developed Monads (the lunar) reach the human germ-stage in the first Round; become terrestrial, though very ethereal human beings towards the end of the Third Round, remaining on it (the globe) through the "obscuration" period as the seed for future mankind in the Fourth Round, an= d thus become the pioneers of Humanity at the beginning of this, the Fourth Round.=20 Others reach the Human stage only during later Rounds, i.e., in the second, third, or first half of the Fourth Round. And finally the most retarded of all, i.e., those still occupying animal forms after the middle turning-poin= t of the Fourth Round-will not become men at all during this Manwantara. They will reach to the verge of humanity only at the close of the seventh Round to be, in their turn, ushered into a new chain after pralaya-by older pioneers, the progenitors of humanity, or the Seed-Humanity (Sishta), viz., the men who will be at the head of all at the end of these Rounds. " S D I 181-2 The personality and personal ego are made up of the skandhas (which are nothing other than the powerful karmic effects of our past deeds, intentions, feelings and thoughts, attached by our earlier choices to "monads of lesser experience than ours)" --- this makes our personality of today, a consequence of our past.=20=20 That which is a 'result', an 'effect' of the past, can hardly be thought of as being completely free, or having free will in the broadest sense of that term. And yet the One Consciousness of the triple Monad, because of its nature as part of the ATMAN (universal), is indeed free within these cyclic evolutionary conditions.=20=20 Why? Because the time has come for the Karmically "bound" to emerge from its chrysalis and gain its own immortality. Kama-Manas has to transform itself, voluntarily into Buddhi-Manas because it sees and learns that the laws of uniformity, universality, and companionship rule every life-supportive aspect of the Universe.=20 >From a theosophical point of view, it thus appears the Reincarnating ego (lower Manas / Kama-Manas) is not entirely free to do as it chooses. Like everything else, it is subject to the Law of Karma.=20 So too, the Higher Ego (Atma-Buddhi-Manas) for that period of time while it voluntarily resides along with the terrestrial ego (Kama-Manas) as its "tutor," appears to be bound by the conditions and choices of the latter. [see S D II 167] Yet as an immortal "time" is of no great consequence, no= r is the very real "pain" it suffers along with the "Lower Manas," it is now associated with. Can it choose 'not to incarnate,' for example? Can it choose not to take part in the evolutionary process and go off and do something entirely different? No longer, for the immediate moment, as it has voluntarily take= n up a spiritual responsibility and the duty of cooperative assistance to a "lesser brother."=20 We might consider attributing certain powers to the 'higher Manas' and say, for example, that the Mahatmas [Those Great of Soul] - in whom Manas has fully flowered - are free because they have attained in the process of thei= r self-development many powers of a spiritual nature. But those are locked away, and held inoperative by them. For example, they have a greater choice than the average human being over which vehicle of consciousness they use a= t any one time, but this choice is bound by the Karma of the special time, individual, purpose, cycle and the environment they are in. If we read the Mahatma Letters, we find ever and again that the Mahatmas (Adepts) state They are not free to do what they choose. They are however free to obey "the Good Law." They are often limited by the wisdom and greater vision of their own revered superiors and, more importantly, by Universal Law, as to what they can do to help humanity at large, or individuals in particular.=20 The Masters wrote: "But you must know and remember one thing: we but follow and servilely copy nature in her works." -- K H -- (M L # 6, Barker Ed., p. 22 ) "We cannot alter Karma, my "good friend"" -- M -- (M L # 97, Barker ed. p. 433 ) A candidate for Adeptship is to be seen as the "Lower Manas" that has becom= e "Taijasi" - illuminated by Buddhi. It is asked by LAW, at the final "momen= t of choice:" Will you elect for "bliss deferred" and work to help humanity, or choose "bliss immediate," for a very long time, as do the Pratyekha Buddhas. And thus distance yourself from humanity? (see Voice, pp 76-79.) Of course, we continually make choices of various kinds. We can choose between a life based on the material values, or one based on the spiritual realities. But, what makes us truly FREE? If we choose to answer this is a= n interesting point to view, as following it, there are results.=20=20 Are we then to assume that there is a "greater WILL" that inevitably bends us to ITS purposes? And, is it possible in the course of Evolutionary Law, the lesser will, which irrevocably decides not to bend to the Greater finds its days are numbered. We need, in such a case, to understand the differenc= e between the levels of intelligence these respective Monadic choices imply. = =20 In the SECRET DOCTRINE under the title "GODS, MONADS AND ATOMS" H P B gives us a survey of the process of monadic evolution "The Scintillas are the "Souls," and these Souls appear in the three-fold form of Monads (units), atoms and gods-according to our teaching. "Every atom becomes a visible complex unit (a molecule), and once attracted into the sphere of terrestrial activity, the Monadic Essence, passing through th= e mineral, vegetable, and animal kingdoms, becomes man." (Esot. Catechism.)=20 Again, "God, Monad, and Atom are the correspondences of Spirit, Mind, and Body (Atma, Manas and Sthula Sarira) in man." In their septenary aggregatio= n they are the "Heavenly Man" . . . . . "The Monads (Jivas) are the Souls of the Atoms, both are the fabric in which the Chohans (Dhyanis, gods) cloth themselves when a form is needed." (Esot. Cat.)=20 This relates to Cosmic and sub-planetary Monads, not to the Super-Cosmic Monas (the Pythagorean Monad) as called, in its synthetic character, by the Pantheistical Peripatetics. The Monads of the present dissertation are treated from the standpoint of their individuality, as atomic Souls, before these atoms descend into pure terrestrial form. For this descent into concrete matter marks the medial point of their own individual pilgrimage. Here, losing in the mineral kingdom their individuality, they begin to ascend through the seven states of terrestrial evolution to that point wher= e a correspondence is firmly established between the human and Deva (divine) consciousness. At present, however, we are not concerned with their terrestrial metamorphoses and tribulations, but with their life and behaviour in Space, on planes wherein the eye of the most intuitional chemist and physicist cannot reach them-unless, indeed, he develops in himself highly clairvoyant faculties." S D I 619=20 "In esoteric teachings, the most transcendental conceptions of the universe and its mysteries, as the most (seemingly) materialistic speculations are found reconciled, because those sciences embrace the whole scope of evolution from Spirit to matter. As declared by an American Theosophist, "The Monads (of Leibnitz) may from one point of view be called force, from another matter. To occult Science, force and matter are only two sides of the same SUBSTANCE." S D I 623 "Now, if these two teachings were blended together and each corrected by th= e other,-and foremost of all the One Reality weeded of its personality-there would remain as sum total a true spirit of esoteric philosophy in them; the impersonal, attribute less, absolute divine essence which is no "Being," bu= t the root of all being. Draw a deep line in your thought between that ever-incognizable essence, and the, as invisible, yet comprehensible Presence (Mulaprakriti), or Schekinah, from beyond and through which vibrates the Sound of the Verbum, and from which evolve the numberless hierarchies of intelligent Egos, of conscious as of semi-conscious, perceptive and apperceptive Beings, whose essence is spiritual Force, whose Substance is the Elements and whose Bodies (when needed) are the atoms-and our doctrine is there." S D I 629 "But what say the Occult Sciences to this, and what do they add?=20 They say that what is called collectively Monads by Leibnitz-roughly viewed= , and leaving every subdivision out of calculation, for the present -may be separated into three distinct Hosts, which, counted from the highest planes= , are, firstly, "gods," or conscious, spiritual Egos; the intelligent architects, who work after the plan in the Divine Mind. [These three "rough divisions" correspond to spirit, mind (or soul), and body, in the human constitution.]=20 Then come the Elementals, or Monads, who form collectively and unconsciousl= y the grand Universal Mirrors of everything connected with their respective realms.=20 Lastly, the atoms, or material molecules, which are informed in their turn by their apperceptive monads, just as every cell in a human body is so informed..=20 There are shoals of such informed atoms which, in their turn, inform the molecules; an infinitude of monads, or Elementals proper, and countless spiritual Forces-Monadless, for they are pure incorporealities, except under certain laws, when they assume a form-not necessarily human.=20 Whence the substance that clothes them-the apparent organism they evolve around their centres? The Formless ("Arupa") Radiations, existing in the harmony of Universal Will, and being what we term the collective or the aggregate of Cosmic Will on the plane of the subjective Universe, unite together an infinitude of monads-each the mirror of its own Universe-and thus individualize for the time being an independent mind, omniscient and universal; and by the same process of magnetic aggregation they create for themselves objective, visible bodies, out of the interstellar atoms.=20 For atoms and Monads, associated or dissociated, simple or complex, are, from the moment of the first differentiation, but the principles, corporeal= , psychic and Spiritual, of the "Gods,"- themselves the Radiations of primordial nature. Thus, to the eye of the Seer, the higher Planetary Power= s appear under two aspects: the subjective-as influences, and the objective-a= s mystic FORMS, which, under Karmic law, become a Presence, Spirit and Matter being One, as repeatedly stated. Spirit is matter on the seventh plane; matter is Spirit-on the lowest point of its cyclic activity; and both-are MAYA." S D I 632-3 "Atoms are called "Vibrations" in Occultism; also "Sound"-collectively. Thi= s does not interfere with Mr. Tyndall's scientific discovery. He traced, on the lower rung of the ladder of monadic being, the whole course of the atmospheric vibrations-and this constitutes the objective part of the process in nature.till the vibration of the auditory nerve commences-and a new phenomenon now takes place: the subjective side of the process or the sensation of Sound. Does he perceive or see it? No; for his specialty is to discover the behaviour of matter. But why should not a psychic see it, a spiritual seer, whose inner Eye is opened, and who can see through the veil of matter?=20 The waves and undulations of Science are all produced by atoms propelling their molecules into activity from within. Atoms fill the immensity of Space, and by their continuous vibration are that MOTION which keeps the wheels of Life perpetually going. It is that inner work that produces the natural phenomena called the correlation of Forces. Only, at the origin of every such "force," there stands the conscious guiding noumenon thereof-Angel or God, Spirit or Demon-ruling powers, yet the same.=20 As described by Seers-those who can see the motion of the interstellar shoals, and follow them in their evolution clairvoyantly-they are dazzling, like specks of virgin snow in radiant sunlight. Their velocity is swifter than thought, quicker than any mortal physical eye could follow, and, as well as can be judged from the tremendous rapidity of their course, the motion is circular. . . . . Standing on an open plain, on a mountain summit especially, and gazing into the vast vault above and the spatial infinitude= s around, the whole atmosphere seems ablaze with them, the air soaked through with these dazzling coruscations. At times, the intensity of their motion produces flashes like the Northern lights during the Aurora Borealis. The sight is so marvellous, that, as the Seer gazes into this inner world, and feels the scintillating points shoot past him, he is filled with awe at the thought of other, still greater mysteries, that lie beyond, and within, thi= s radiant ocean. . . . . However imperfect and incomplete this explanation on "Gods, Monads and Atoms," it is hoped that some students and theosophists, at least, will feel that there may be indeed a close relation between materialistic Science, and Occultism, which is the complement and missing soul of the former. " S D I 633-4 It would then be right in a matter of saying that the aggregation of substances and materials represented by the "personality," being "born of time", i.e., anything in manifestation (no matter how subtle), is not reall= y free. There are always limits and some of these limits may even seem grand= , to us. That alone is free which is timeless and formless, the unborn and uncreated, the limitless SELF. HPB writes:=20=20=20 "Know at once and remember always, that true Occultism or Theosophy is the "Great Renunciation of SELF," unconditionally and absolutely, in thought as in action. It is ALTRUISM, and it throws him who practices it out of calculation of the ranks of the living altogether. "Not for himself, but for the world, he lives," as soon as he has pledged himself to the work. Much is forgiven during the first years of probation. But, no sooner is he "accepted" than his personality must disappear, and he has to become a mere beneficent force in Nature. There are two poles for him after that, two paths, and no midward place of rest. He has either to ascend laboriously, step by step, often through numerous incarnations and no Devachanic break, the golden ladder leading to Mahatmaship (the Arhat or Bodhisattva condition), or - he will let himself slide down the ladder at the first false step, and roll down into Dugpaship. . . ." "Occultism versus the Occult Arts" H. P. B ARTS., VOL. II, P. 104 "...This desire for a sentient life shows itself in everything, from an ato= m to a sun, and is a reflection of the Divine Thought propelled into objectiv= e existence, into a law that the Universe should exist...." S D I 44 [see S D II 176, 578] "The ancient philosophy affirmed that in consequence of the manifestation o= f that Will--termed by Plato the Divine Idea--that everything visible and invisible sprung into existence.=20=20 As that Intelligent Idea, which, by directing its sole will-power toward a center of localized forces called objective forms into being, so can man, the microcosm of the great Macrocosm, do the same in proportion to the development of his will-power.=20=20 The imaginary atoms...are like automatic workmen moved inwardly by the influx of that Universal Will directed upon them, and which manifesting itself as force, sets them into activity.=20=20 The plan of the structure to be erected is in the brain of the Architect, and reflects his will; abstract as yet, from the instant of conception it becomes concrete through these atoms which follow faithfully every line, point and figure traced in the imagination of the divine Geometer. " ISIS I 61-2 "...the Force which we call the divine Free-Will (is) represented by the Dhyani Buddhas..." TRANSACTIONS, p. 129. Finally we have in ISIS UNVEILED: "One common vital principle pervades all things, and this is controllable b= y the perfected human will." ISIS, II, p. 590 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D Best wishes, Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 -----Original Message----- From: L.R. A Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 9:47 PM To:=20 Subject: developing the will Hello Friends, =20=20=20 Dallas recently mentioned "indomitable will." Suggestions on how to=20 develop that great faculty will be welcomed. =20=20=20 Thanks, =20=20=20 L.R. From meredith_bill@earthlink.net Sun Jan 08 06:23:49 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: meredith_bill@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 79467 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2006 14:23:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2006 14:23:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pop-cowbird.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (207.69.195.68) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2006 14:23:49 -0000 Received: from dialup-4.154.2.119.dial1.atlanta1.level3.net ([4.154.2.119] helo=JoeyMeredith) by pop-cowbird.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1EvbRf-0004cj-00; Sun, 08 Jan 2006 09:22:56 -0500 Message-ID: <000901c6145f$03be7560$77029a04@JoeyMeredith> To: "Theosophy Study List" , References: Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 09:22:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 207.69.195.68 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Bill Meredith" Subject: Re: Henry Olcott's Testimony about His Meetings with the Master Morya X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=191212763; y=yoQdV258fkyP9Deri_s_LuOZGmTU8t3d35ooE4UTEUVFIlhpYG1yZC0 X-Yahoo-Profile: meredith_bille <...Throughout my studies I have tried to obtain my proofs in a valid form. What I have seen and experienced is, therefore, very satisfactory to myself, though mainly valueless to others. Each must see for himself, and can alone convince himself.... I said I wanted some tangible proof that he had actually been there, and that I had not been seeing a mere illusion or maya conjured up by H. P. B. When I asked him to leave me some tangible evidence that I had not been the dupe of a vision, but that he had indeed been there... I now exhibit the turban which he took off his head, when I DEMANDED of him some tangible proof of his visit.... (caps added) I wish I had some tangible object to prove to me that he has really been here, something that I might handle after he is gone!" I have been blessed with meetings with this Master and others since then ....However others less fortunate may doubt, I KNOW....> individiual lines extracted and quoted from http://blavatskyarchives.com/olcottandmahatmas.htm These words from HS Olcott may give one pause to consider whether Olcott thought one would be wise to believe and accept the masters as real based on his or anyone's elses eye witness testimony. He constantly asked for proof of what he, himself was seeing and so perhaps should we. Either one has met a master and knows (and needs no written accounts of the eye witness testimony of others) or one has not met a master and therefore (despite reading a hundred eye witness testimonies of others) one does not know but must rely instead on faith and belief. peace, bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" To: "Theosophy Study List" Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 12:56 AM Subject: Henry Olcott's Testimony about His Meetings with the Master Morya > Henry Olcott's Testimony > about His Meetings with the Master Morya > [draft copy] > See: > > http://blavatskyarchives.com/olcottandmahatmas.htm > > Daniel > Blavatsky Study Center From saidevo@yahoo.co.in Sun Jan 08 06:55:38 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: saidevo@yahoo.co.in X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 97623 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2006 14:55:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2006 14:55:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.41) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2006 14:55:37 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jan 2006 14:55:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by mailer5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Jan 2006 14:55:03 -0000 Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 14:55:01 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.41 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 61.2.225.49 From: "saidevotee" Subject: Spiritual Inquiries: 8. The Mental World - Part 2 of 2 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=227523244; y=LunC1CzwrW0xizvwDArnsSQxlwAyMQYpZmLY-K-d-8sy1g X-Yahoo-Profile: saidevo Pippa's Song ------------ The year's at the spring,=20 And day's at the morn;=20 Morning's at seven;=20 The hill-side's dew-pearl'd;=20 The lark's on the wing;=20 The snail's on the thorn;=20 God's in His heaven --=20 All's right with the world!=20 --Robert Browning (1812=961889)=20 In the first part of this article, we examined the nature of the=20 human mind and had a look at the mental world and its sub-planes.=20 In this part we get to know the scenery and inhabitants of the=20 mental world.=20 The Scenery of the Mental World=20 ------------------------------- It is not possible to describe the scenery of the mental world in=20 the way we can describe the scenery of the astral world, which=20 largely corresponds to the physical world. This is because in one=20 sense the mental world has no scenery, except the personal=20 sceneries created by individual thoughts.=20 Each person is surrounded by the world of the individual's own=20 making, in which he or she lives. Even to look outside the=20 personal world, the individual has to come out of personal=20 thoughts and move about without thinking, in order to see the=20 world outside. This is because, even a trace of a single thought=20 shapes up the matter and creates a form! Such a scenario gives an=20 idea about the power as well as the limitation of thoughts.=20 In another sense, the conditions of the mental plane, however, are=20 so difficult to describe in words that it would perhaps be more=20 accurate to say that all possible scenery exists there; there is=20 nothing conceivable of loveliness which is not there with a=20 fullness and intensity beyond all power of imagination. But out of=20 this splendour of living reality each man sees only that which his=20 development enables him to perceive.=20 Anyone who wishes to abstract himself from his surroundings on the=20 mental plane and devote himself to quiet thought, may live in a=20 world of his own without possibility of interruption. He will also=20 have the additional advantage of seeing all his ideas, and their=20 consequences, full worked out, passing before him in a sort of=20 panorama.=20 If, however, he wishes instead to observe the plane upon which he=20 is, he must very carefully suspend his own thought for a time, so=20 that he may not influence the readily impressible matter around=20 him.=20 With successul suspension of thoughts, he will observe that the=20 light, colour, sound and form of the world around him has not=20 ceased to exist: on the contrary, its harmonies and coruscations=20 are grander than ever. Presently he will perceive that he is=20 seeing the colour-language of the devas, the expression of thought=20 or conversation of beings far higher than himself in the scale of=20 evolution. By experiment and practice he will also find that he=20 can himself use this mode of expression, and thus hold converse=20 with, and learn from, these lofty non-human entities.=20 It is possible also for a visitor to the mental plane to form=20 round himself a huge shell, through which none of the thought or=20 conversation of other entities can penetrate. Then holding his own=20 mind perfectly still, he can examine the conditions inside his=20 shell.=20 He is now able to perceive another, and entirely different, series=20 of regular pulsations, which the other more artificial phenomena=20 had obscured. These are universal, and cannot be checked or turned=20 aside by any shell made by human power. They produce no colour or=20 form, but flow with resistless regularity through all the matter=20 of the plane, outwards and in again, like the exhalations and=20 inhalations of a great breath.=20 There are several sets of these, clearly distinguishable from one=20 another by volume, period of vibration, and the tone of the=20 harmony which they bring. Grander than them all sweeps one great=20 wave which seems the very heart-beat of the system =96a wave which,=20 welling up from unknown centres on far higher planes, pours out=20 its life through all our world, and then draws back in its=20 tremendous tide to That from which it came.It comes in one long=20 undulating curve, and the sound of it is like the murmur of the=20 sea. Yet in it and through it there echoes a ringing chant of=20 triumph, the very music of the spheres. This could be the sound of=20 aum, the pranava mantra, the nada or the note of Brahman.=20 A man who has once heard that glorious song of nature never quite=20 loses it again. Even in the physical world, so dreary by=20 comparison, he hears it always as a kind of undertone.=20 If the man has reached a certain degree of spiritual development,=20 it is possible for him to merge his consciousness with the sweep=20 of the wave and let it bear him upward to its source. But it is=20 not wise to do this, unless a Master stands beside him to draw him=20 back at the right moment; for otherwise its irresistible force=20 will carry him away into still higher planes, whose far greater=20 glories his ego is as yet unable to sustain. He will lose=20 consciousness, with no certainty as to when and where he will=20 regain it.=20 Whilst the attainment of such unity is the ultimate object of=20 man's evolution, he must reach that goal in full and perfect=20 consciousness, and not drift into absorption in a state of blank=20 unconsciousness that is little removed from annihilation.=20 On the mental plane a man may circle the world with the speed of=20 thought; he is at the other side of it even as he formulates the=20 wish to be there, for the response of mental matter to thought is=20 immediate, and it is very readily controlled by the will. The term=20 mano vegah is used in Hindu puranas to indicate such maximum=20 speed.=20 On the mental plane there is no alternation of day and night, and=20 nothing to correspond to waking or sleeping, except of course on=20 first entering the plane and on finally leaving it.=20 As the physical world is three-dimensional, and the astral world=20 four-dimensional, so is the mental world five-dimensional. But it=20 is probably more accurate to say that consciousness on each plane=20 is able to appreciate the world in which it is functioning in the=20 number of dimensions given above.=20 The three known forms of energy have their appropriate=20 manifestations on every plane which Theosophy students have yet=20 reached. Hence Fohat, Prana and Kundalini all exist on the mental=20 plane, thought at present little is known of the details of their=20 workings.=20 A man in full consciousness on the mental plane will, of course,=20 see the whole of humanity, excepting those who are living in their=20 causal bodies only, for every man who is in physical or astral=20 life must also possess a mental body. Those, however, who are=20 confined in their own shells of thoughts in their heavens can=20 scarcely be considered as companions, for they have excluded=20 themselves from any outward influence.=20 Between those who are fully conscious on the mental plane there is=20 far closer union than is possible at any lower level. A man can no=20 longer deceive another with regard to what he thinks, for all=20 mental operations lie open for every one to see. Opinions or=20 impressions can now be exchanged, not only with the quickness of=20 thought, but also with perfect accuracy, for each now receives the=20 exact idea of the other, clean, clear-cut, instantaneous, without=20 having to puzzle his way through the maze of words.=20 On the astral plane difference of language is a barrier to=20 communication, as thoughts must be definitely formulated in words=20 in order to be comprehensible to another entity on that plane. On=20 the mental plane, however, men communicate directly by=20 thought-transference, whatever their language may be.=20 Space is no barrier, for a man can come into touch with any other=20 man merely by directing his attention to him. The real barrier=20 between men are those due to the difference in their evolution. A=20 smaller vessel can only contain much less than a larger one, but=20 this limitation is felt only by the larger vessel, as the smaller=20 one is filled to its capacity. In other words, the less evolved=20 can know only as much of the more evolved as he is able to respond=20 to, and such limitations can obviously be felt, only by the more=20 evolved, as the lesser has all he can contain.=20 The method of finding a man on the mental plane, whether he be=20 living or dead, is as follows. For each of a man's vehicles there=20 is what may be called a keynote, a sort of average tone of the=20 man's various forces and qualities on the plane concerned. There=20 have never been found two persons whose keynotes were identical at=20 all levels, ie., etheric, astral, mental and causal, so as to make=20 the same chord, when struck simultaneously.=20 Thus the chord of each man is unique, and whether he be sleeping=20 or waking, living or dead, his chord is always the same, and he=20 can always be found by it.=20 If the man is in the higher world, in his causal body alone, he=20 still has his chord with him, because his permanent atoms are=20 quite sufficient to give out the distinctive sound.=20 The trained seer, who is able to sense the chord, attunes his own=20 vehicles for the moment exactly to its notes, and then by an=20 effort of will sends forth its sound. Wherever in the three worlds=20 the man sought may be, there is an instantaneous response from=20 him. His causal body lights up instantly, like a great flame, and=20 this is at once visible to the seer, so that a magnetic line of=20 communication is established.=20 The seer can use that line as a kind of telescope, or, if he=20 prefers, he can send his consciousness flashing along it with the=20 speed of light, and see from the other end of it, as it were.=20 The man's chord is his true occult name. The chord is not actually=20 either heard or seen; it is received by a complex perception which=20 requires the practically simultaneous activity of the=20 consciousness in the causal body and in all the lower vehicles.=20 Thus every man pronounces his own true name. Just as he has his=20 own odour materially, by which a bloodhound can track him, so he=20 has his sound spiritually. Those who can hear that sound of his in=20 the inner worlds know where he stands on the ladder of evolution,=20 and what he can and cannot do.=20 This name is different from the more permanent name of Augoeides=20 of a man, which is the chord of the three principles of the ego,=20 produced by the vibrations of the atmic, buddhic and mental atoms,=20 and the monad behind them. (Theosophy uses the term monad for the=20 ultimate element of godliness in man and all other beings of the=20 universe.) Obviously, the level of spiritual development of the=20 monadic element differs among men.=20 The Augoeides, the glorified man, is a name sometimes given to the=20 three higher principles of a man, viz., Atma-Buddhi-Manas, which=20 constitute the Ego, in the causal body. This, of course, is not an=20 image of any one of the man's past vehicles, but contains within=20 itself the essence of all that was best in each of them; it is the=20 body which indicates more or less perfectly, as through experience=20 it grows, what the deity means that man shall be.=20 >From that vehicle, on the causal levels, it is possible to see not=20 only what the man's past history has been, but also to a=20 considerable extent the future that lies before him.=20 The Inhabitants of the Mental World=20 ----------------------------------- We can classify the inhabitants of the mental world into three=20 categories: 1. Human, 2. Non-Human and 3. Artificial.=20 Inhabitants of the astral world also fall under these categories,=20 but in the mental world, the sub-divisions of the categories are=20 far fewer, because the products of man's evil passions, which bulk=20 so largely the astral world, cannot exist on the mental plane.=20 The following table sets out the main classes:=20 Lower Mental World Inhabitants=20 ------------------------------ Human Embodied (alive) ---------------------- 1. Adepts=20 2. Initiates=20 3. Highly developed men Human Disembodied (dead) ------------------------ Human beings in devachan (heaven) Non-Human --------- 1. Rupadevas=20 2. Animal Group Souls=20 3. Individualised Animals=20 4. Second Elemental Kingdom=20 Artificial ---------- Elementals (thought-forms) Human Embodied=20 -------------- Human beings cannot move with freedom on the lower mental planes=20 until suitably trained by a master on the use of the mental body.=20 Every one of us might make it to the mental world in deep sleep,=20 but we are not conscious of it either during or after the sleep.=20 People who can traverse the mental world in full consciousness=20 while still attached to the physical body are: adepts, initiates=20 and highly developed men.=20 The Hierarchy=20 ------------- A brief look at the hierarchy is useful in knowing about the=20 adepts (or masters) and their initiates.=20 It should be borne in mind here that humanity comprises people=20 following different religions in different regions, but these=20 differences exist only among common people. The main task of the=20 Hierarchy, according to Theosophy, is to lead the human evolution=20 to a Universal White Brotherhood. The term White here refers to=20 the White Path to Godhood to distinguish it from the Black Path of=20 the black magicians.=20 The Hierarchy starts with Sanat Kumara, the Lord of the World.=20 (Sanat Kumaras are the 'mind-born' sons of Brahma). Under him are=20 his three pupils Sananda, Sanaka and Sanatana. The other masters=20 of the Hierarchy are: 5. Lord Gautama Buddha, 6. Lord Maitreya, 7.=20 The Mahachohan, 8. and 9. The Manus, Lord Chakshusha and Lord=20 Vaivasvata, 10. The 'Nilgiri Master' or Rishi Agastya, 11. Master=20 M. (Morya), 12. Mater K.H. (Kuthumi), 13. The Venetian Master, 14.=20 The Master 'Serapis', 15. Master Hilarion, 16. Master Jesus, 17.=20 Master Rakoczi, 18. Master D.K. (Djwal Kul), 19. Sir Thomas Moore=20 and 20. Thomas Vaughan. (Source: Theosophy Explained in Questions=20 and Answers by P.Pavri).=20 Except for the four Sanat Kumaras, who have bodies of eternal=20 youth, the other masters have the facility to choose a new=20 physical body when their existing ones are worn out. Since they=20 are liberated men, they usually function in their causal bodies at=20 the higher mental planes. Masters who are at the Jivanmukta or=20 Asekha level usually do not possess physical, astral, mental or=20 causal bodies, and reside at their highest level, but when they=20 need to function at a lower level they create a temporary vehicle=20 for them in the matter of that plane.=20 Adepts ------ The terms Adept and Master in theosophical literature are used to=20 denote certain human beings who have completed their human=20 evolution, attained human perfection and therefore liberation.=20 These people, insteading of choosing the paths to the kingdom of=20 God, have sacrificed it to take incarnations and serve humanity=20 under the Hierarchy. They are generally referred to by the term=20 Nirmanikaya.=20 Initiates --------- Initiates are pupils of the Masters at varying levels of=20 evolvement, in the Path comprising nine levels of initiation.=20 Adepts and Initiates appear in the mental world as splendid globes=20 of living colour, driving away all evil influence wherever they=20 go, shedding around them a feeling of restfulness and happiness,=20 of which even those who do not see them are often conscious. It is=20 in the mental world that much of their most important work is=20 done, more especially upon the higher levels, where the=20 individuality or ego can be acted upon directly. It is from this=20 plane that they shower the grandest spiritual influences upon the=20 world of thought. From it also they impel great and beneficent=20 movements of all kinds.=20 On the higher mental planes much of the spiritual force poured out=20 by the self-sacrifice of the Nirmanakayas is distributed. The=20 Initiates are also given their teaching on these planes.=20 Since unselfishness and spirituality are the characteristics of=20 the mental world, the black magician and his pupils cannot find a=20 place there, because whatever be their level of development, it is=20 tainted by personal desire of some sort, and therefore gets=20 entangled with the matter of the astral world.=20 The Masters and other sages usually reside in the highest of the=20 arupa levels (the first subdivision) of the mental world, but=20 sometimes visit the rupa levels on some mission. Annie Besant=20 describes their work in her book The Ancient Wisdom, thus:=20 "From this world of subtlest mental forces the Masters carry on=20 Their beneficent work for humanity, raining down noble ideals,=20 inspiring thoughts, devotional aspirations, streams of spiritual=20 and intellectual help for men.=20 "Every force there generated, rays out in myriad directions, and=20 the noblest, purest souls catch most readily these helpful=20 influences. A discovery flashes into the mind of the patient=20 searcher into Nature's secrets; a new melody entrances the ear of=20 the great musician; the answer to a long studied problem illumines=20 the intellect of a lofty philosopher; a new energy of hope and=20 love suffuses the heart of an unwearied philanthropist. Yet men=20 think that they are left uncared for, although the very phrases=20 they use; 'the thought occurred to me; the idea came to me; the=20 discovery flashed on me' unconsciously testify to the truth known=20 to their inner selves though the outer eyes be blind."=20 Highly Developed Men -------------------- As we said at the beginning of this article, the arupa level of=20 the three higher subdivisions of the mental world is the habitat=20 of man, the Thinker. He dwells either in the second or the third=20 level, depending on his evolution. The vast majority live on the=20 third level, while a comparatively few of the highest intellectual=20 live on the second.=20 Human Disembodied=20 ----------------- This class comprises all those in devachan or the heaven world.=20 The term Devachan is derived from the Sanskrit Devasthan, the land=20 of the Gods. A person in devachan is described as a devachani.=20 Devachan is a specially guarded part of the mental world from=20 which sorrow and evil are kept away by the action of certain=20 Devas. More than being a place, devachan is best described as a=20 state of consciousness, and is here around us at this very moment,=20 as near to us as the air we breathe. We shall have a look at the=20 heavens in a separate article.=20 Non-Human=20 --------- Visitors from other planets and systems, who are occasionally=20 found in the astral world, are frequently seen on the mental=20 world. They are very lofty beings and are concerned, not with=20 individuals, but with great cosmic processes. Those in touch with=20 our world are the immediate agents for the carrying out of the law=20 of karma, especially in connection with changes of land and sea=20 brought about by earthquakes, tidal waves, and all other seismic=20 causes.=20 Rupadevas: The beings known to the Hindus and Buddhists as Devas,=20 to Zoroastrians as the Lords of the heavenly and the earthly, to=20 the Christians and Mohammedans as angels, and elsewhere as Sons of=20 God, etc., are a kingdom of spirits belonging to an evolution=20 distinct from that of humanity, an evolution in which they may be=20 regarded as a kingdom next above humanity, much as humanity is=20 next above the animal kingdom. There is here however, an important=20 difference; for, whilst an animal can pass only into the human=20 kingdom, a human being, when he attains the Asekha or Jivanmukta=20 level, has several choices, of which the deva line is one.=20 Devas are connected with the earth, but not confined to it, since=20 their evolution is through a grand system of seven chains, each=20 chain having seven globes of evolution.=20 There are at least as many types of angels or devas as there are=20 races of men, and in each type there are many grades of power, of=20 intellect, and of general development, so that altogether there=20 are hundreds of varieties. According to Hinduism, Devas are 33=20 crores in number, falling under several categories, and headed by=20 Indra.=20 Angels have been divided into nine Orders, the names used in the=20 Christian Church being Angels, Archangels, Thrones, Dominations,=20 Princedoms, Virtues, Powers, Cherubim and Seraphim.=20 In each Order there are many types; in each there are some who=20 work; some who assist those in trouble and sorrow; others who work=20 among the vast hosts of the dead; some who guard, some who=20 meditate, while others are at the stage where they are mainly=20 concerned with their own development.=20 There are also angels of music, called Gandharvas in Hinduism, who=20 express themselves in music as we express ourselves in words; to=20 them an arpeggio is a greeting, a fugue a conversation, an=20 oratorio an oration. There are angels of colour, who express=20 themselves by kaleidoscopic changes of glowing hues. There are=20 also angels who live in and express themselves by perfumes and=20 fragrances. A sub-division of this type includes the angels of=20 incense, who are drawn by its vibrations and find pleasure in=20 utilising its possibilities.=20 There is still another kind, belonging to the kingdom of=20 nature-spirits or elves, who do not express themselves by means of=20 perfumes, but who live by and on such emanations and so are always=20 found where fragrance is disseminated. There are may varieties,=20 some feeding upon coarse and loathsome odours, and others only=20 upon those which are delicate and refined. Amongst these are a few=20 types who are especially attracted by the smell of incense, and=20 who are therefore to be found in churches where incense is used.=20 None of the devas have physical bodies such as we have. The lowest=20 kind are called Kamadevas, who have as their lowest body the=20 astral; the next class is that of the Rupadevas, who have bodies=20 of lower mental matter, and who have their habitat on the four=20 lower, or rupa levels of the mental plane; the third class is that=20 of the Arupadevas, who live in bodies of higher mental or causal=20 matter. Above these there are four other great classes, inhabiting=20 respectively the four higher planes of our solar system. Above and=20 beyond the deva kingdom altogether stand the great hosts of=20 planetary spirits.=20 The relationship of devas to nature-spirits somewhat resembles, at=20 a higher level, that of men to animals. Just as an animal can=20 attain individualisation only by association with man, so it seems=20 that a nature-spirit can normally acquire a permanent=20 reincarnating individuality only by an attachment of a somewhat=20 similar character to devas.=20 Devas will never be human, most of them already byond that stage,=20 but there are some who have been human beings in the past.=20 The bodies of devas are more fluidic than those of men, being=20 capable of far greater expansion and contraction. They have also a=20 certain fiery quality (tejas) which clearly distinguishes them=20 from human beings. The fluctuations in the aura of a deva are so=20 great that, for example, the aura of one which was normally about=20 150 yards in diameter has been observed to expand to about two=20 miles in diameter.=20 The colours in the aura of a deva are more of the nature of flame=20 than of cloud. A man looks like an exceedingly brilliant, yet=20 delicate cloud of glowing gas, but a deva looks like a mass of=20 fire.=20 Devas live far more in the circumference, more all over their=20 auras than a man does. Whilst 99 percent of the matter of a man's=20 aura is within the periphery of his physical body, the proportion=20 is far less in the case of a deva.=20 They usually appear as human beings of gigantic size. They possess=20 vast knowledge, great power, and are most splendid in appearance;=20 they are described as radiant, flashing creatures, myriad-hued,=20 like rainbows of changing supernal colours, of stateliest imperial=20 mien, calm energy incarnate, embodiments of resistless strength.=20 Devas produce thought-forms as we do, but theirs are usually not=20 so concrete as ours, until they reach a high level. They have a=20 wide generalising nature, and are constantly making gorgeous=20 plans. They have a colour language, which is probably not as=20 definite as our speech, though in certain ways it may express=20 more.=20 The Initiations which we can take are not taken by devas; their=20 kingdom and ours converge at a point higher than the Adept.=20 There are ways in which a man can enter the deva evolution, even=20 at our stage, or lower.=20 The acceptance of this line of evolution is sometimes spoken of,=20 in comparison with the sublime renunciation of the Nirmanakayas,=20 as "yielding to the temptation to become a god". But it imust not=20 be inferred from this expression that any shadow of blame attaches=20 to the man who makes this choice. The Path which he selects is not=20 the shortest, but it is a very noble one, and if his developed=20 intuition impels him toward it, it is certainly the one best=20 suited to his capacities.=20 Nothing is known of any rule or limit for the work of the devas.=20 They have more lines of activity than we can imagine. They are=20 usually quite willing to expound and exemplify subjects along=20 their own line to any human being who is sufficiently developed to=20 appreciate them. Much instruction is given in this way, but few=20 are able to profit by it as yet.=20 Whilst devas are exceedingly beautiful, the lower orders of them=20 have the vaguest and cloudiest conceptions of things, being=20 inaccurate so far as facts are concerned. Hence, while a deva=20 friend may be an exceedingly interesting person, yet, having no=20 relation to the facts amidst which humanity is evolving, the=20 greatest care should be exercised in following advice he may give=20 as to physical actions.=20 In general, the higher order of devas unreservedly co-operate with=20 the great Plan of the universe; hence the perfect "order" that we=20 find in nature. In the lower ranks, this perfect obedience is=20 instinctive and automatic, rather than conscious; they do their=20 work, feeling impelled in the direction of the One Will which runs=20 through everything.=20 In the case of National devas, whilst the one at the head of each=20 nation is a being of lofty intelligence, who always co-operates=20 with the Plan, the lower national devas are found fighting, for=20 example, for their own nation on a battlefield. As their=20 intelligence develops, they co-operate more and more with the=20 Plan.=20 The Spirit of the Earth, that obscure being who has the earth for=20 his body, is not of the highest order of devas. Little is known of=20 him; he may be said to belong more to the Rupa Devas, because he=20 has the earth for his body.=20 Devas who are beyond the level of the Asekha Adept, i.e., that of=20 the Fifth Initiation, normally live in what is called in Sanskrit=20 the Jnanadeha, or the body of knowledge. The lowest part of that=20 body is an atom of the nirvanic (atmic, janarloka) plane, serving=20 them as our physical body serves us.=20 Animal Group-Souls and Individualized Animals=20 --------------------------------------------- Animals do not have individual souls, only group souls. The group=20 soul is a certain definite quantity of mental matter charged with=20 the energy of the Logos; this mental matter contains a definite=20 life at the animal grade of evolution. An animal group soul has=20 evolved from a vegetable group soul which in turn evolved from a=20 mineral group soul.=20 The soul of an animal such as a tiger, after death of its physical=20 body, spends some period of conscious life on the astral world,=20 and then pours back to its group soul, coloring it with the=20 experiences acquired by the animal. Then the animal reincarnates=20 to continue its journey of evolution.=20 The brains and souls of domestic animals that associate with man=20 evolves faster than those of the wild animals, with the result=20 that at a certain point in its evolution, the soul of the animal=20 does not pour back into its group soul, but individualizes and is=20 ensouled separately by the Third Great Outpouring or Shiva aspect=20 of the Logos. This results in a human birth for the animal in its=20 next incarnation. Thus, we humans have a responsibility towards=20 the evolution of the animal kingdom.=20 While the group souls of animals are found on the lower planes of=20 the mental world, the individualized souls spend a dreamy life in=20 the lower heaven world until their egos develop sufficiently to=20 take a human birth in a future incarnation.=20 Second Elemental Kingdom=20 ------------------------ There are three Elemental Kingdoms: the First ensouls matter of=20 the higher mental or causal sub-planes; the Second, the matter of=20 the four lower levels of the mental world; the Third, astral=20 matter. In the Second Kingdom, the highest subdivision exists on=20 the fourth sub-plane, whilst there are two classes on each of the=20 three lower sub-planes, thus making in all seven subdivisions on=20 these four sub-planes.=20 The mental essence is on the downward arc of evolution, and=20 therefore is less evolved than astral essence or, of course, than=20 any of the later kingdoms, such as the mineral. The wonderful=20 delicacy with which the mental essence responds to the faintest=20 action of the mind helps its progress in this downard arc.=20 If it could be imagined as entirely free for a moment from the=20 action of thought, it would appear as a formless conglomeration of=20 dancing infinitesimal atoms, instinct with marvellous intensity of=20 life, but probably making but little progress on the downward path=20 of evolution into matter. But when thought seizes upon it, and=20 stirs it into activity, throwing it on the rupa levels into all=20 kinds of lovely forms [and on the arupa levels into flashing=20 streams], it receives a distinct additional impulse which, often=20 repeated, helps it forward on its way.=20 For when a thought is directed from higher levels to the affairs=20 of earth, it sweeps downwards and takes upon itself the matter of=20 the lower planes. In doing this, it brings the elemental essence,=20 of which the first veil was formed, into contact with that lower=20 matter; thus by degrees the essence becomes accustomed to answer=20 to lower vibrations, and so progresses in its downward evolution=20 into matter. Thus the saying, "matter descends, spirit ascends".=20 The Essence is also very noticeably affected by music, poured=20 forth by great musicians in devachan.=20 Artificial Mental Elementals or Mental Thought-Forms=20 ----------------------------------------------------- The mental plane is even more fully peopled by artificial=20 elementals than is the astral plane, and they play a large part=20 among the living creatures that function on the mental plane. They=20 are, of course, more radiant and more brilliantly coloured than=20 are astral elementals, are stronger, more lasting, and more fully=20 vitalised.=20 When it is also remembered how much grander and more powerful=20 thought is on the mental plane, and that its forces are being=20 wielded not only by human entities, but by devas, and by visitors=20 from higher planes, it will be realised that the importance and=20 influence of such artificial entities can scarcely be exaggerated.=20 Great use is made of these mental elementals by Masters and=20 Initiates, the elementals which they create having, of course, a=20 much longer existence and proportionately greater power than any=20 of those which were described in dealing with the astral world.=20 At the present stage of evolution of humanity, the mental world is=20 dominated by cloudy and irregularly shaped thoughts, produced by=20 the ill-trained minds of the majority.=20 Rarely beautiful artistic thoughts are also seen, which give the=20 inspiration to the painter, or act as the Muse of the poet, as=20 they struggle to bring down the idea to the limitations of the=20 physical canvas or language.=20 No description of the mental world would be complete without an=20 account of the Akashic Records. These will be described in the=20 next article of this serial on spitirual inquiries.=20 Sources: 1. The Mental Body by Arthur E. Powell 2. The Ancient Wisdom by Annie Besant=20 3. Theosophy Explained in Questions and Answers by P.Pavri=20 Regards, saidevo =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D From adelasie@sbcglobal.net Sun Jan 08 07:49:10 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: adelasie@sbcglobal.net@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 271 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2006 15:49:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2006 15:49:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp106.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.205) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2006 15:49:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 57145 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2006 15:48:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alphanumeric) (adelasie@sbcglobal.net@63.196.198.26 with login) by smtp106.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2006 15:48:23 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 07:48:21 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <43C0C3C5.30537.8F20DD9@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000901c6145f$03be7560$77029a04@JoeyMeredith> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Originating-IP: 68.142.198.205 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "adelasie" Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Henry Olcott's Testimony about His Meetings with the Master Morya X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=161282999 Hi Bill, Happy New Year! Nice to see you onlist. Either one has met a master and knows (and needs > no written accounts of the eye witness testimony of others) or one has > not met a master and therefore (despite reading a hundred eye witness > testimonies of others) one does not know but must rely instead on > faith and belief. You put it very concisely and I for one appreciate it. This endless debate about the existence of Masters is revealing of the inner life of this or that debator, but otherwise has no substance at all. All that remains to be said on this subject, imho, is that one is neither better nor more deserving of anything, for having fallen into the first category instead of the latter. It is all a matter of consciousness, a tremendously transient and nebulous attribute at this stage of the development of humanity. It behooves those who have had some meaningful inner experience to be grateful even to know they have had it, and to aspire to be worthy of such a blessing, and let it go at that. We can possibly be forgiven for being so fixated on the material manifestation for proof of "reality," living as we do deep in Kali Yuga, but we are not limited to a material consciousness, if we aspire to more. All the best, Adelasie > From meredith_bill@earthlink.net Sun Jan 08 15:27:44 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: meredith_bill@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40823 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2006 23:27:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Jan 2006 23:27:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pop-siberian.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (207.69.195.71) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2006 23:27:43 -0000 Received: from dialup-4.154.0.31.dial1.atlanta1.level3.net ([4.154.0.31] helo=JoeyMeredith) by pop-siberian.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1Evjwr-0005ir-00 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 08 Jan 2006 18:27:42 -0500 Message-ID: <001501c614ab$1d8f46d0$1f009a04@JoeyMeredith> To: References: <43C0C3C5.30537.8F20DD9@localhost> Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 18:27:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 207.69.195.71 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Bill Meredith" Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Henry Olcott's Testimony about His Meetings with the Master Morya X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=191212763; y=vWdTGrb7Ujq7yYSB27HRjpe9zlH_LT7nJTEGqG4OJaCDA8JMgVXetwc X-Yahoo-Profile: meredith_bille Happy New Year to you as well, Adelasie. When you say, >It is all a matter of > consciousness, a tremendously transient and nebulous attribute at > this stage of the development of humanity. It behooves those who have > had some meaningful inner experience to be grateful even to know they > have had it, and to aspire to be worthy of such a blessing, and let > it go at that. I am in harmony with you. I, too, would describe meeting a master as a "meaningful inner experience" regardless of the outer circumstances. peace, bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "adelasie" To: Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 10:48 AM Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Henry Olcott's Testimony about His Meetings with the Master Morya > Hi Bill, > > Happy New Year! Nice to see you onlist. > > Either one has met a master and knows (and needs >> no written accounts of the eye witness testimony of others) or one has >> not met a master and therefore (despite reading a hundred eye witness >> testimonies of others) one does not know but must rely instead on >> faith and belief. > > You put it very concisely and I for one appreciate it. This endless > debate about the existence of Masters is revealing of the inner life > of this or that debator, but otherwise has no substance at all. All > that remains to be said on this subject, imho, is that one is neither > better nor more deserving of anything, for having fallen into the > first category instead of the latter. It is all a matter of > consciousness, a tremendously transient and nebulous attribute at > this stage of the development of humanity. It behooves those who have > had some meaningful inner experience to be grateful even to know they > have had it, and to aspire to be worthy of such a blessing, and let > it go at that. We can possibly be forgiven for being so fixated on > the material manifestation for proof of "reality," living as we do > deep in Kali Yuga, but we are not limited to a material > consciousness, if we aspire to more. > > All the best, > Adelasie >> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.15/223 - Release Date: 1/6/2006 > > From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun Jan 08 17:34:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45665 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2006 01:34:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2006 01:34:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.65) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 01:34:57 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EvlvY-0006ld-Ie; Sun, 08 Jan 2006 20:34:29 -0500 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 17:34:11 -0800 Message-ID: <007401c614bc$d0b703e0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec791934ead7270686a52ac53115a19403e6350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.65 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: Henry Olcott's Testimony about His Meetings with the Master Morya X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=JsbCzug00dhSamPm2uy_Rt1Way8oL6w8ZWrzWunaz1IThA X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/8/2006 5:28 PM Dear Bill: I would think if not "incarnated" an Adept would be acting as a Nirmanakaya= . This what I have gleaned from Theosophical writings: Nirmanakaya-- Sambhogakaya -- Dharmakaya -- Pratyekha Trikaya, Nirvana and Nirvanees=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D NIRMANAKAYA =20 The Nirmanakaya, is the highest stage. If renunciation (of Nirvana) is chosen, Bodhi ( Wisdom ) is "practiced" by those who live in that vesture. The Mahatma, the Master of Devotion (the Jains would call him a Tirthankara) employs this nirmanakayic body for his further compassionate work which embraces Humanity and its many individuals in particular, while at the same time, he proceeds, working on other planes of nature, which necessarily include harmonic relations with vast and other aspects of the Universe, of which we are not given the details The karmic future of individuals, of the "race," of our Earth, lies in front of his gaze, as an "open book." His part in the grand scheme of Life is clear, as is that of others. This enables him to employ discrimination in his actions of assistance. He knows when cycles are due to mature, and whether the time may be correct to initiate the action of some or another type of learning opportunity for humanity, a race, or an individual. =20 THE MAHATMA IS A NIRMANAKAYA WHO USES A PHYSICAL BODY. This can be done in several ways: normal birth, substitution ( as in a "borrowed body," ), and by Kriyasakti, whereby a new body is formed, not "born of woman." The various methods and reasons for their use have a significance known only to them. For us to inquire into those particular reasons is curiosity. =09 Gautama the Buddha chose to remain with mankind as a Nirmanakaya, occasionally incarnating as in the case of Sri Sankaracharya, and later as Tson-Kha-Pa. So says HPB. ( see Glos 307-8), and Son-Kha-pa. (Glos. p= . 305). "...those Egos of great Adepts who have passed away, and are also known as Nirmanakayas; ...for whom--since they are beyond illusion--there is no Devachan, and who, having either voluntarily renounced it for the good of mankind, or not yet reached Nirvana, remain invisible on earth...they are re-born over and over again ... Who they are, "on earth"--every student of Occult science knows..." SD II 615 "When our great Buddha--the patron of all the adepts, the reformer and the codifier of the occult system, reached first Nirvana on earth, he became a Planetary Spirit, i.e.,--his spirit could at one and the same time rove the interstellar spaces in full consciousness, and continue at will on Earth in his original and individual body. For the divine Self had so completely disfranchised itself from matter that it could create at will an inner substitute for itself, and leaving it in the human form for days, weeks, sometimes years, affect in no wise by the change either the vital principle or the physical mind of its body...that is the highest form of adeptship ma= n can hope for on our planet. But it is as rare as the Buddhas themselves, (44) the last Khobilghan who reached it being Sang-Ko-Pa of Kokonor (XIV Century), the reformer of esoteric as well as of vulgar lamaism. Many are those who "break through the egg shell," few who, once out are able to exercise their Nirira namastaka fully, when out of the body. Conscious lif= e in Spirit is as difficult for some natures as swimming, is for some bodies...The planetary Spirit of that kind (the Buddha like) can pass at will into other bodies--of more or less etherealized matter, inhabiting other regions of the Universe. There are many other grades and orders, but there is no separate and eternally constituted order of Planetary Spirits..." Mahat. Let. 43-4 The nature and function of the Dhyan Chohans [ Lords of Wisdom ] is explained in SD II 233fn. They are "The divine Intelligences charged with the supervision of Kosmos." T. Glos. p.101. "...it will be sufficient to point to the following:--=09 (1) the Nirmanakaya vesture is preferred by the "Buddhas of Compassion" to that of the Dharmakaya state, precisely because the latter precludes him who attains it from any communication or relation with the finite, i.e., with humanity;=20=20 (2) it is not Buddha (Gautama, the mortal man...) who lives ubiquitously in "three different spheres, at the same time," but Bodhi, the universal and abstract principle of divine wisdom, symbolized in philosophy by Adi-Buddha. It is the latter that is ubiquitous because it is the universal essence or principle. It is Bodhi, or the spirit of Buddhaship, which having resolved itself into its primordial homogeneous essence and merged into it, as Brahma (the universe) merges into Parabrahm, the Absoluteness is meant under the name of "essential Bodhi." For the Nirvanee, or Dhyani-Buddha, must be supposed--to be that "essential Bodhi" itself. It is the Dhyani Bodhisattvas, the primordial rays of the universa= l Bodhi, who live in "reflected Bodhi" in Rupadathu, or the world of subjective "forms;" and it is the Nirmanakayas (plural) who upon casting their lives of "practical Bodhi," in the "enlightened" or Buddha forms, remain voluntarily in the Kamadathu (the world of desire), whether in objective forms on earth or in subjective states in its sphere (the 2nd Buddhakshetra). This they do in order to watch over, protect and help mankind."=20=09=09 [Glos 129 - Guardian Wall; Voice 74, L on P 19,=20 M L 57, Q & A 160, Key 212-3, F P 75,]=20=20 Thus, it is neither one Buddha who is meant, nor any particular Avatar of the collective Dhyani Buddhas, but verily Adi-Bodhi--the first Logos, whose primordial ray is Mahabuddhi, the Universal Soul, Alaya whose flame is ubiquitous, and whose influence has a different sphere in each of the three forms of existence, because, once again, it is Universal Being itself or th= e reflex of the Absolute..." Glos 343 PRATYEKHA BUDDHAS HPB writes in the Voice of the Silence, p. 47 of the Pratyekha Buddha, and of "spiritual Selfishness."=20=20 In the Theosophical Glossary, p.261 HPB says this designation describes hig= h intellectual development but with no true spirituality.=20=20 It is the result of practicing the dead-letter of the laws that lead to spiritual development, but does not include those that come from Buddhi: compassion, generosity, brotherhood. It is also the result of only a partial understanding of the Law of Evolution. Such an individual has not yet learned to visualize all Beings as the One Self, and his own indissoluble relations with It, and with all others. He is self-centered in his personal (kama-manasic) state of consciousness. Intellect, and persona= l comprehension, are added to a strict carrying out, literally, of the rules of psycho-mental inner development, he helps other and appears compassionate, but in reality he is focused on his own personal "liberation= " from the wheel of rebirth and life on this Earth. He has created a barrier which isolates him personally and does not include the fact of the unity of all Nature. In the Theosophical Forum, Mr. Judge has answered points that are raised by one trying to understand this : "...there are two methods of attaining Nirvana, one selfish and the other unselfish, but the word selfish here would designate really unselfishness among us. It refers to the refinement of selfishness in that a person is working by unselfish acts to obtain that which, in the end of all analysis, is selfish, because it is for the benefit of the person involved. But it was never taught that a man could attain Nirvana by working for his own selfish advantage as his motive, and he does not gain it at the expense of anyone; therefore his selfishness in obtaining Nirvana, being at no one's expense, is of a very different quality from what we ordinarily call selfishness. As a matter of fat it is stated that at a certain point of development the highly spiritualized person may in a moment pass into Nirvana through an instantaneous personal desire to gain that state." WQJ -- Forum Answers, p. 73-4 It appears to be an illustration of the saying: "Everyone was out of step, but Johnny." HPB calls it "the lowest of the three paths to Nirvana...in which a Yogi--'without teacher and without saving others'--by the mere force of wil= l and technical observance attains to a kind of nominal Buddhaship, doing no good to anyone but working selfishly for his own salvation."=20=20 Mr. Judge in the Forum Answers says:-- "Bad karma is that act and thought which displeases the Higher Self. Hence all self-seeking acts and thoughts no matter how high and outwardly virtuou= s they are, are bad karma, since the Higher Self desires no such acts for its sake. Nirvana comes to those who have risen over the delusions and have realized the supreme unity of all; then it may be taken; but if it is taken for oneself, leaving others in the mire of life unhelped, it becomes an enormou= s selfishness which later on must result in the being having to do penance in some other manvantara." WQJ -- Forum Answers p. 97 If we use the knowledge HPB gives in the KEY of the nature and range of our principles, and take into consideration the whole thrust of evolution as expressed by Mr. Judge in the OCEAN, OF THEOSOPHY, p. 60, the "raising of the entire mass of sentient matter to the level of "conscious god-hood," we are told that the One Consciousness, working in us through the "embodied soul" (kama-manas) and through the many successive personalities that Karma provides us, is also working on this "mass" to raise it.=20=20 We are given an inestimable opportunity to voluntarily work in this vast cooperative endeavor.=20=20 This is one of the reasons why the free-willed "man-stage" of evolution is essential. As a class we are in the position of being confronted, sooner o= r later, with the choice of becoming voluntary assistants in this work, or of terminating our association with it for a while--of becoming Nirvanees. This process of devoted work to be done by a host of mind-beings (including ourselves) using the great mass of "living-matter" is the way in which it i= s being refined, and "raised." It is we, humans, who in our struggle to master the causal powers inherent in our nature, work to impersonalize the personality (our Kama-Manas), while assisting it to advance in its own way. As self-conscious beings, our task is to assist all departments of nature i= n this vast progression. [ As an example we may look at our own physical bodies made up of many kinds of cells and structures, and see the wonderful whole, welded into a conscious mass by the Master Intelligence that we call "ourselves," and in this: "we live and have our being."] The "raising" is the assisting of all the many beings, in and around us, to a position of greater refinement, so that "instinctual consciousness" can b= e assisted to bridge the gap to true wisdom. In India the group named the Jains are seen to carry this ancient ideal into practice on the physical plane: they seek to avoid harming (killing) any form in which intelligence dwells. On the planes of passion and thought, a similar process is to be carried out, whereby controlling both these faculties we avoid harming the skandaic elementals by impressing them with our selfish and evil passionate thoughts. They (the Jains) use an interesting definition, saying that all "life-atoms, monads - are matter" And that means is "Karma." Thus they lin= k the universal life-atoms (monads) which pervade the Universe at any and all levels of existence, to a need, a duty and a responsibility due to them by every and all Spiritual EGOS {Buddhi-Manas} that are on their pilgrimage to "eternal Peace." We may say that in every human being there resides at base such a potential Mahatma. We sometimes come across this idea expresse= d as: "the Master within."=20 The responsibility of being human implies free-will, and each one of these minute beings is potentially a unit of the humanity of the future. { We ca= n witness this repeated in every incarnation, when the consciousness of a child is enlivened by its parents, teachers and circumstances. At about ag= e seven, the Atma is able to incarnate in the personal form through the entrance of the Higher Manas conjoined to Buddhi. The divine Triad has access to the next in the series of personal brain-mind beings that Karmic progress has again provided. In effect, the One Consciousness becomes agai= n the guide and friend, as Krishna is for Arjuna. } Considering, what the selfish anchorite, the Pratyekha Buddha does, we may understand that he focuses his energy on his personally, aiming to retire from the world of action into one supposed to be the inaction of bliss, and of non-involvement. He visualizes and creates for himself as a person, a cocoon wherein time is made to stand still, a temporary "Nirvana." He intensely desires (a kamic act) to remove himself from awareness of any sensations of pain, pleasure or other involvement in the process of evolution and of the impact of dealing with its many beings.=20 In the Forum Answers, p. 120, Mr. Judge answers a question based on a statement made on p. 28 of the Epitome of Theosophy:=20 "When an Adept has reached a certain very high point in his evolution he may, by a mere wish, become what the Hindus call a "Deva"--or lesser god. If he does this, then, although he will enjoy the bliss and power of that state for a vast length of time, he will not at the next Pralaya partake of the conscious life "in the bosom of the Father," but has to pass down into matter at the next new "creation," performing certain functions that could not now be made clear, and has to come up again through the elemental world= ; but this fate is not like that of the Black Magician who falls into Avitchi= . And again between the two he can choose the middle state and become a Nirmanakaya--one who gives up the bliss of Nirvana and remains in conscious existence outside of his body after its death; in order to help Humanity. This is the greatest sacrifice he can do for mankind." Epitome, p. 28 =09 Again in the Theosophical Forum he states : "The whole matter is a reference to a very obscure doctrine, but little known, that if the Adept voluntarily takes the delights, pleasures and powers referred to, he is compelled, after millions of years of enjoyment, to reenter objective nature at the elemental stage. That is plainly related."=20=20 Forum Answers p. 120 One might say that this is encouraged in the sayings attributed to Sankara-Acharya, in his "Crest Jewel of Wisdom." There one finds a constan= t emphasis on liberating ones' consciousness from the bonds of passion, so that "freedom" may be secured. It would be significant to ask "What is the Principle, or the nature of that Being which has "consciousness" as an attribute;" next: "What are the bonds of "Passion," and how are they different from "Thought;" and: "What would this "freedom" be--"freedom" from what, and for how long ? And if that is time-limited, what ensues ? Can we ever be totally free ? " Some devotees seize upon the concept of "freedom," and decide that they wil= l consider that all actions that bind one through karma to rebirth are to be shunned. They lose sight of the higher virtues of cooperation, generosity, assistance to others who "know less than ourselves." Those virtues which are enshrined in the practice of brotherhood.=20=20 Brotherhood is named: "The One Esoteric Truth." If one meditates on this, all else unfolds, and the right proportion and use of powers and choice on physical plane events becomes clear. All such choices must be preceded by = a deliberate and careful moral, and mental purification of our motive. To impersonalize it and universalize it is paramount. To return to the Pratyekha, or "Passi Buddha." He goes on, in increasing personal isolation, developing in his misinterpretation of the goal of evolution a desire for this long but temporary Nirvanic state. So strong i= s he in the exercise of his will, that he erects around himself barriers to further contact with other beings, including the Mahatmas. He estranges himself from a full understanding and a complete use of all the doctrines o= f universal "Theosophy," and chooses from among them, only those that suit hi= m personally. In effect he makes of his being a "nish-karma," or a karma-less being for a very long time--as he enters an Individualized state= , a limited Nirvana the duration of which is commensurate with the level of "merit" he develops. Temporarily, the great law of evolution, acting under the concentrated forc= e of a spiritual desire, provides him with a "resting place"--on one of the seven planes of Nirvana--where he waits until those who were his contemporaries, which he had out-distanced for a while, reach his level of consciousness, will and ability, which might be called the perfection of th= e Kama-Manasic state and plane of consciousness.=20=20 Nature has, higher duties and planes of work, and these must be satisfied i= n the great economy of manifestation. The price for such a limited horizon o= f rest and isolation has to be paid. In the Notes on the Bhagavad Gita, pp. pp. 98-99, It is called the "One Consciousness which pierces up and down through all the seven states or planes of Being, and serves to uphold the memory...of each state's experience." This "One Consciousness is one and not many, nor different from other consciousnesses. It is not the waking consciousness or sleeping consciousness, or any other but consciousness itself." It derives from, an= d is the active aspect of the Atma, the Ray of the Central Spiritual Sun that unites all beings. It is the "Law of Laws--Compassion absolute." For the Pratyekha Buddha, this isolated "Nirvanic" condition is self-centered, or selfish, and therefore it is brought to an end by the great Law; which, being compassionate, gives such an entity another chance to progress on to the true goal.=20=20 At the opposite pole of conscious endeavor, we are told that there are thos= e who choose to oppose the work of evolution, who make of themselves isolated and antagonistic, perverse centers of consciousness, rooted in the isolatio= n of matter and selfish passion. These face the annihilation of the personality as a conscious base. That selfishly directed personality acquires great knowledge, and misapplies, or misdirects it. It enters a state named Avitchi.=20=20 The Monad severs itself from that series of personalities, and under the great law, it is again recirculated through the evolutionary process. The Monad is immortal. It provides for a fresh assemblage of intelligence a focus for a new focus for the development of the mama-manasic intelligence we call the personality. The ascent from the bottom of experience begins again. It is the personal consciousness and memories that are "annihilated," obliterated in that case. Similarly, all memory in the memory of humanity, of a Pratyekha Buddha is said to be obliterated, since such an one ceases from its duty of assisting and participating in evolution. In this connection HPB in The Secret Doctrine says :=20 " [ the power ] which propels towards, and forces evolution, i.e., compels the growth and development of Man towards perfection, is (a) the monad, or that which acts in it unconsciously through a force inherent in itself; an= d (b) the lower astral body or the personal self. The former...=09 that force [which]...owing to its identity with the all-force...inherent in the Monad, it is all-potent on the Arupa or formless plane...So with the Atman: unless the higher Self or ego gravitates towards its Sun--the Monad--the lower Ego, or personal Self, will have the upper hand in every case. For it is this Ego, with its fierce Selfishness and animal desire to live a Senseless life (Tanha), which is "the maker of the tabernacle,"...In short, Spirituality is on its ascending arc, and the animal or physical impedes it from steadily progressing on the path of its evolution only when the selfishness of the personality has so strongly infected the real inner man with its lethal virus, that the upward attraction has lost all its powe= r on the thinking reasonable man." S D II 109-110 As an illustration, we could consider a band of pilgrims who are climbing a sacred mountain together. One spurts ahead, then, finding a niche, sits. When the rest arrive, they go on together. The one who raced ahead to sit and wait in isolation, has lost the intervening growth that accrued to the others through their exchange of ideas, mutual assistance, and friendship. = =20 He has to acquire those, and they include compassion and a perception of th= e duty owed to the skandhas. He has to learn that any progress, requires the sharing of all learning acquired. This understanding comes from developing Buddhic heart qualities. It is a recognition of the continuous debt that wisdom developed from within confers on its recipients. This is represente= d as sacrifice of the 'self' for the selves of all other beings. In India the Brahmins often adopt the attitude that they desire to isolate themselves from contact with others of a "lower caste." because they conceive that spiritual life demands such an isolation from physical proximity. They forget that the true insulation of the spiritual life is a= n inner attitude, it pertains to the mind. Buddha is said, while living in the world, He sent out wide and sweeping currents of force for good that enveloped all who surrounded him. And further, such is their power, they have carried his peaceful influence forward for over 2,500 years to all those who contact his words and ideas.=20=20 Krishna, an Avatar, who came at the commencement of the Kali-Yuga offered the Bhagavad Gita as a spiritual reformative to the rituals and rote of Brahmanical practice. Krishna an "avatar" incarnated, although a Sage, in = a kshatriya body and was brought up as a sudra. Kali Yuga was the fresh cycle that would influence the world. It was one in which ancient practices woul= d become confused. He stands as an example of the spiritual person, to whom external caste means nothing. His influence will pervade the rest of that vast period of time. The true devotee, aspiring to approach the Rishis, th= e Wise Ones of Old, welcomes living in the world where he can help anyone who needs such spiritual perception as he may have secured.=20 The achievement of "head learning," with a lack of "soul Wisdom," limits an= y personal development to the level of Kama-Manas. If this is carried to its highest level isolation of the personality results in the Pratyekha Buddha. The qualities named Dana-charity, Shila-harmony and Kshanti-peacefulness need development. The 'lower mind' has to become the 'human mind.' And the= n with the power of Viraga, "indifference to pleasure as to pain, illusion conquered, truth alone perceived." From this 4th or balance virtue are developed the qualities of the Adept: Viraga, dauntless and well directed energy, leading to the work of a spiritual mind, and represented in the nex= t series of Paramitas: Viraga, Dhyana, and Prajna. [see Voice, p. 52] In compassion we may see wise action inspired and directed by Higher Manas, Buddhi and Atman. The embodied mind realizes that it is entirely responsible for the qualities impressed by the power of choice on the skandhas that provide it with the vestures of its personality. Assisting and educating them is a part of our karmic task. They will always be our associates. The power of the law of conjoint evolution in all spheres and levels, includes all beings without exception, therefore any selfish attempt at isolation can only be temporary. In the case of the Pratyekha, the delay caused by selfish choice affects the merit he had acquired intellectually, using his lower manasic reasoning.=20 The elements of the personality, the "life-atoms" clothe the "Pilgrim," wit= h those vestures that provide not only the path but the place of our pilgrimage. The "life-atoms" that cluster karmically about it, cause the kind of incarnation which represents the stage at which he abandoned them. There the interrupted work starts again to assist and be assisted by all those that he had delayed by indulging in the "sin of separateness." = =20 More references: M L 114, SD I 371 329-30; II 79-80 109-10 233fn;=20=20 Key 113-4; Forum Answers, pp. 73-4, 97-8, 120;=20=20 Epitome, p. 28; Glossary 261. 345, 231, 232;=20=20 Aryan Path, Vol. I, p. 656. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D In the Bhagavad Gita, Sri Krishna declares to Arjuna the origin of the doctrines of that "song:" the Bhagavad Gita or, Yoga - our unity with devotion.=20=20 The several technical names given above are degrees of Adeptship, and indicate progress along the path of spiritual Perfection. Krishna, the most ancient Sage, speaks of the Lodge of holy Yogis who havin= g mastered all the rules, laws and operations of Nature in our Universe and world, remain in contact with humanity so as to educate it in these facts and thus preserve a living knowledge of the spiritual basis for all manifestation and its operations. [ example: see S D I 207-8, 570-575= ] =09 In chapter 4, verse 1, Krishna says: --=20 "This exhaustless doctrine of Yoga, I formerly taught unto Vivaswat (the Central Divine Sun, the first manifestation of divine wisdom at the beginning of evolution); Vivaswat communicated it to Manu (a generic title for the reigning spirit of the sensuous universe; the present one being Vivaswata Manu); and Manu made it known unto Ikshwaku (the founder of the Indian solar--Suryavansa dynasty); and being thus transmitted from one unt= o another it was studied by the Raja Rishees (the Royal Sages, teachers of th= e Brahmins); until at length in the course of time the mighty art was lost, = O harasser of thy foes! It is even the same exhaustless, secret eternal doctrine I have this day communicated unto thee because thou art my devotee and my friend." Gita, p. 30 "Krishna then explains that reincarnation is a fact in Nature, and is the Path of experience which leads to the Goal of perfection for all mankind. = =20 All beings, starting as the "life-atoms" (or "monads") and including men/minds, are immortals and are evolving in intelligence towards a "realization" that the whole Universe operates under immutable Law, and is One WHOLE. This implies a perception of the nature of Law--Karma before an= y choosing or acting is done. Krishna, the manifested Logos, corresponds to the Atma--Higher Self in man [the "Ray" from the Spiritual Sun]. It is immortal and eternal.=20=20 Mankind, in general, finds itself mid-way in evolution. It bridges the gap, uniting the Spiritual and the material streams of evolution into the essential, third stream, that of his own free-willed Self-consciousness. And this is a special provision in Nature because it serves to mirror into his awakened Brain-min (Lower Manas) the infinite capacity for understanding directly derived from his internal "God," the Atma-Buddhi-Manasic Monad -- the "Ray" of the Real Self innate to him. For this reason he "makes" Karma; and, he hastens or retards his own evolution, by his free-willed choices, as a personal being, progressing towards "Perfection." Perfection is a mental and a moral condition, where the free-willed mind, perceiving the equality and brotherhood of all beings, has chosen to discipline itself to be brotherly, and therefore harmless to all the rest o= f Nature's beings.=20=20 It acts unselfishly, and perceiving the universal action of Karma, it is merciful and compassionate to all. Such an "awakened" man, harmonizes and equilibrizes all the powers and forces of Nature, which he sees are within himself as everywhere else. And he deliberately and consciously makes of the 'army' of the "skandhas" he has drawn together, a "permanent Astral"--a Manvantaric Body for use on the several "planes," and "spheres" of evolutionary life. [ see HPB Art, III 265 ] "Perfection" is relative to "imperfection;" the ideal of perfection is hel= d and worked toward because it is potential in us as in every other being. I= t is in a way a limited goal, as it is a goal we construct with the embodied mind so as to help raise it to a more universal position. When attained to= , it will disclose further "perfections" to be striven for.=20=20 "Perfection is an ever-receding goal; "we can always approach the light, but we may never touch the flame," because it is our very Self, the Perceiver and Knower within. The Self is neither perfect nor imperfect for it includes all perceptions; there could be no knowledge of any degree of perfection or imperfections unless the perceiver could see both an distinguish between them." A to Q, 14=20=20 I hope this might help. Best wishes,=20 Dallas =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: Bill=20 Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 3:30 PM To:=20 Subject: Re: Henry Olcott's Testimony about the Master Morya < not all Masters are incarnated.> This is my experience as well. I would describe meeting a master as a meaningful inner experience=20 regardless of the outer circumstances. peace, bill=20 From waking.adept@gmail.com Sun Jan 08 19:04:33 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: waking.adept@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 63185 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2006 03:04:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2006 03:04:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wproxy.gmail.com) (64.233.184.202) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 03:04:30 -0000 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i24so2506282wra for ; Sun, 08 Jan 2006 19:03:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.119.10 with SMTP id w10mr2410647qbm; Sun, 08 Jan 2006 19:03:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.123.10 with HTTP; Sun, 8 Jan 2006 19:03:29 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 22:03:29 -0500 To: Theosophy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Originating-IP: 64.233.184.202 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Mark Hamilton Jr." Subject: Appearance of the Masters X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219719026 Any late breaking evidence that the Masters have made more appearances lately? There's been a lot of noticeable discord recently. -Mark H. -- Mark Hamilton Jr. waking.adept@gmail.com From prmoliveira@yahoo.com Sun Jan 08 20:19:56 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: prmoliveira@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42506 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2006 04:19:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2006 04:19:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.38) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 04:19:56 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2006 04:18:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by mailer2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2006 04:18:59 -0000 Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 04:18:57 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.38 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 203.56.250.202 From: "prmoliveira" Subject: Re: Appearance of the Masters X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39079617; y=9d404cIiXzN__sCNnoGph_iN6CPfZTdllL6JJptFCFRshYvaZsg X-Yahoo-Profile: prmoliveira --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Hamilton Jr."=20 wrote: > Any late breaking evidence that the Masters have made more=20 appearances > lately? There's been a lot of noticeable discord recently. There seem to have been a number of *appearances*, but not necessarily=20 of the Masters. After all, an appearance is what comes in sight, which=20 is not always a reality. pedro=20 From Drpsionic@aol.com Sun Jan 08 20:44:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 3479 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2006 04:44:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2006 04:44:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m27.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.8) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 04:44:16 -0000 Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.240.4e52e5a (4418) for ; Sun, 8 Jan 2006 23:34:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <240.4e52e5a.30f341d6@aol.com> Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 23:34:30 EST To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5021 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.8 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Appearance of the Masters X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=B-szH_Hh21yVNl_B8Z5ljWol5vwzUUVaw3ncDU64OsWLvylm2Q X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/8/2006 9:04:43 PM Central Standard Time, waking.adept@gmail.com writes: Any late breaking evidence that the Masters have made more appearances lately? There's been a lot of noticeable discord recently. One was seen to be flying his carpet rather erratically. Chuck the Heretic _http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano_ (http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From waking.adept@gmail.com Sun Jan 08 20:56:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: waking.adept@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43333 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2006 04:56:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2006 04:56:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wproxy.gmail.com) (64.233.184.197) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 04:56:37 -0000 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i12so3104389wra for ; Sun, 08 Jan 2006 20:53:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.249.15 with SMTP id b15mr2410022qbs; Sun, 08 Jan 2006 20:53:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.123.10 with HTTP; Sun, 8 Jan 2006 20:53:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 23:53:32 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <240.4e52e5a.30f341d6@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <240.4e52e5a.30f341d6@aol.com> X-Originating-IP: 64.233.184.197 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Mark Hamilton Jr." Subject: Re: Theos-World Appearance of the Masters X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219719026 Your webcam recording scares me, Chuck. -Mark H. On 1/8/06, Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 1/8/2006 9:04:43 PM Central Standard Time, > waking.adept@gmail.com writes: > > Any late breaking evidence that the Masters have made more appearances > lately? There's been a lot of noticeable discord recently. > > > > > One was seen to be flying his carpet rather erratically. > > Chuck the Heretic > > _http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano_ (http://www.geocities.com/c_cosiman= o) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > -- Mark Hamilton Jr. waking.adept@gmail.com From waking.adept@gmail.com Sun Jan 08 21:52:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: waking.adept@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53405 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2006 05:52:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2006 05:52:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wproxy.gmail.com) (64.233.184.207) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 05:52:16 -0000 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i32so3192268wra for ; Sun, 08 Jan 2006 21:52:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.119.13 with SMTP id w13mr2428232qbm; Sun, 08 Jan 2006 21:52:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.123.10 with HTTP; Sun, 8 Jan 2006 21:52:14 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 00:52:14 -0500 To: Theosophy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Originating-IP: 64.233.184.207 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Mark Hamilton Jr." Subject: "Gravity is only half a law" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219719026 All theoretical, of course, but promising: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/01/06/hyperdrive/ It's a new way of decreasing the effects of gravity of an object; in this case, space craft escaping the earth's gravitational pull. At least it will save on the NASA's fuel bill. At most, it will change the way physicists view the universe. -Mark H. -- Mark Hamilton Jr. waking.adept@gmail.com From Drpsionic@aol.com Sun Jan 08 22:18:54 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36955 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2006 06:18:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2006 06:18:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m21.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.2) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 06:18:53 -0000 Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.46.7851ac02 (16781) for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 01:18:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <46.7851ac02.30f35a45@aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 01:18:45 EST To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5021 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.2 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Appearance of the Masters X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=L8qlqiO4T0RH-9NfhqsPim7PRMpuN6LzyPyRbTPsIMWDwT_RqQ X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/8/2006 10:57:25 PM Central Standard Time, waking.adept@gmail.com writes: Your webcam recording scares me, Chuck. You should see me when I'm trying to be scary. Chuck the heretic _http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano_ (http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Sun Jan 08 22:20:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62214 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2006 06:20:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2006 06:20:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d20.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.136) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 06:20:16 -0000 Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.b7.67abc6a9 (16781) for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 01:20:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 01:20:02 EST To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5021 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.139.136 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World "Gravity is only half a law" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=GpmHEvyFQm20op-L-C9QN1PBc8keaVch2PilyT6GrENNPGlRJw X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/8/2006 11:52:20 PM Central Standard Time, waking.adept@gmail.com writes: It's a new way of decreasing the effects of gravity of an object; i No more diets!! Chuck the Heretic _http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano_ (http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Jan 09 04:30:42 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45955 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2006 12:30:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2006 12:30:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.65) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 12:30:42 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EvwAQ-0002gb-86; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 07:30:30 -0500 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 04:30:12 -0800 Message-ID: <008501c61518$753231a0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79e7d2db32d95972073ce5e82dde09a50b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.65 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: FW: "Gravity is only half a law" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=gzxFhnVmo85JPcUiZLoh-k_-SaVQ0qQqLkL69BV5MLgnyQ X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/9/2006 3:18 AM Dear Friends: What do you think of this -- worth visiting and noting, http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/01/06/hyperdrive/ HPB says in S D : DIMENSIONS (OF SPACE) I 628 dimensionless in every sense I 55=20 six, of all bodies II 591=20 will multiply w man's faculties I 251-2 "The processes of natural development which we are now considering will at once elucidate and discredit the fashion of speculating on the attributes o= f the two, three, and four or more "dimensional Space;" but in passing, it is worth while to point out the real significance of the sound but incomplete intuition that has prompted=97among Spiritualists and Theosophists, and several great men of Science, for the matter of that *=97the use of the mod= ern expression, "the fourth dimension of Space."=20 To begin with, of course, the superficial absurdity of assuming that Space itself is measurable in any direction is of little consequence. The familia= r phrase can only be an abbreviation of the fuller form=97the "Fourth dimensi= on of MATTER in Space." =86=20 But it is an unhappy phrase even thus expanded, because while it is perfectly true that the progress of evolution may be destined to introduce us to new characteristics of matter, those with which we are already familiar are really more numerous than the three dimensions. The faculties, or what is perhaps the best available term, the characteristics of matter, must clearly bear a direct relation always to the senses of man.=20 Matter has extension, colour, motion (molecular motion), taste, and smell, corresponding to the existing senses of man, and by the time that it fully develops the next characteristic=97let us call it for the moment PERMEABILITY=97this will correspond to the next sense of man=97let us call = it "NORMAL CLAIRVOYANCE;" thus, when some bold thinkers have been thirsting fo= r a fourth dimension to explain the passage of matter through matter, and the production of knots upon an endless cord, what they were really in want of, was a sixth characteristic of matter. The three dimensions belong really bu= t to one attribute or characteristic of matter=97extension; and [252] popular common sense justly rebels against the idea that under any condition of things there can be more than three of such dimensions as length, breadth, and thickness. These terms, and the term "dimension" itself, all belong to one plane of thought, to one stage of evolution, to one characteristic of matter. So long as there are foot-rules within the resources of Kosmos, to apply to matter, so long will they be able to measure it three ways and no more; and from the time the idea of measurement first occupied a place in the human understanding, it has been possible to apply measurement in three directions and no more. But these considerations do not militate in any way against the certainty that in the progress of time=97as the faculties of humanity are multiplied=97so will the characteristics of matter be multipli= ed also. Meanwhile, the expression is far more incorrect than even the familia= r one of the "Sun rising or setting." S D I 251-2 on GRAVITY & MOTION MAHATMA LETTERS (Barker) pp: 61, 163-4, --------------------------------------- NOTE:=09 In the science section of the Los Angeles Times there is an article by K. C= . Cole about our never static universe. [Mar. 4, 2002] "Indeed, Einstein's equations describing gravity revealed that the universe could not remain static even if it wanted to. It has to expand or contract= . Currently, it seems delicately balanced between the collapsing and expanding; and cosmologists would like to know why. Even "nothing itself" is not neutral.=20=20 It is said by science that: The "vacuum of empty space" jitters with continual uncertainty; particles of matter are coming into existence all th= e time, exactly balanced by an equal number of particles of antimatter.=20=20 Indeed, this ENERGY OF EMPTINESS may well account for most of the energy in the universe.=20=20 Scientists know that it is a lot easier to "neutralize" a problem than to eliminate it completely. For example, astronomers would see the stars a lo= t more clearly if they could eliminate distortions caused by turbulence in th= e air. But it's hard to get the atmosphere to stand still, so instead, a technique called "adaptive optics" keeps track of the wiggles in the atmosphere, then exactly counters the wiggles to make them go away. It is like adding minus (-) one to plus (+) one, to make zero. Equilibrium is always dynamic. (Reference: Los Angeles Times March 4, 2002.) Excellent Information. As I understand the section: (a) We are all in orbit whether we realize it or not =97 Science posits that some planets are, in time, swallowed by a sun, some by a "black-hole." (b) Planets in our Solar system are drawn toward the Sun, but due to difference in their natures an opposing force is set up which eventually equalizes and balances the attractive force. When this happens, that determines the "mean orbit." All orbits are in continual minor adjustments and motion. None is ever exactly repeated. (b) The solar systems orbit about the center of our Galaxy. Astronomically, this center it is probably the Pleiades.=20=20 (c) The Galaxies are orbiting about a center. Oddly enough Occultism and science tend to agree on this, but neither is very talkative on the subject. The important orbit for humans is the spiritual orbit, or as th= e Occult Commentary puts it: "The latter [the Absolute] must never be mentioned in words or speech lest it take away some of our spiritual energies that aspire towards its state, gravitating ever onward unto it spiritually, as the whole physical universe gravitates towards its manifested center cosmically." [ S D I, p. 34, 484, 490, 504-6 ] Mother Earth is journeying onward toward the perfection of form, while humans are Pilgrims on the path of consciousness. HPB says: In Answers on the "Law of Gravitation"? [Transactions] P. 132 -4 [Science insists that between bodies attraction is directly as the mass and inversely as the square of the distance. ] Occultists, however, doubt whether this law holds good with regard to the entirety of planetary rotation.=20 [Take the first and second laws of Kepler included in the Newtonian law as given by Herschel. "Under the influence of such attractive force mutually urging two spherical gravitating bodies toward one another, they will each, when moving in each other's neighborhood, be deflected into an orbit concav= e toward each other, and describe one about the other, regarded as fixed, or both around their common center of gravity, curves whose forms are limited as those figures known in geometry by the general name of Conic Sections. I= t will depend upon the particular circumstances or velocity, distance and direction, which of these curves shall be described, whether an ellipse, a circle, a parabola, or an hyperbola, but one or the other it must be . . . = . . . etc., etc."=20 Science says that the phenomena of planetary motion result from the action of two forces, one centripetal, the other centrifugal, and that a body falling to the ground in a line perpendicular to still water does so owing to the law of gravity or of centripetal force. ] P. 133 Among others, the following objections brought forward by a learned occultist, may be stated.=20 (1) That the path of a circle is impossible in planetary motion.=20 (2) That the argument in the third law of Kepler, namely that "the squares of the periodic times of any two planets are to each other, in the same proportion as the cubes of their mean distances from the Sun," gives rise t= o the curious result of a permitted libration in the eccentricities of planets. Now the said forces remaining unchanged in their nature, this can only arise, as he says, "from the interference of an extraneous cause."=20 (3) That the phenomenon of gravitation or "falling" does not exist, except as the result of a conflict of forces. It can only be considered as an isolated force by way of mental analysis or separation.=20 He asserts=85 that the planets, atoms, or particles of matter are not attracted towards each other in the direction of right lines connecting their centers, but are forced towards each other in the curves of spirals closing upon the center of each other. Also that the tidal wave is not the result of attraction. All this, as he shows, results from the conflict of imprisoned and free force; antagonism apparently, but really affinity and harmony. P. 134 "Fohat, gathering a few of the clusters of Cosmic matter (nebulae) will, by giving it an impulse, set it in motion anew, develop the required heat, and then leave it to follow its own new growth." (S D, Vol. I. p. 84.)=20 P. 134 . All growth depends upon the indwelling force, because on this plane of ours it is this force alone which acts consciously.=20 P. 134 The universal force cannot be regarded as a conscious force as we understand the word consciousness, because it would immediately become a personal god. It is only that which is enclosed in form, a limitation of matter, which is conscious of itself on this plane P. 134 This Free Force or Will, which is limitless and absolute, cannot be said to act understandingly, but IT IS THE ONE AND SOLE IMMUTABLE LAW OF LIFE AND BEING.=20 P. 134 Fohat, therefore, is spoken of as the synthetic motor power of all the imprisoned life-forces and the medium between the absolute and conditioned Force.=20 P. 134 It is a link, just as Manas is the connecting link between the gross matter of the physical body and the divine Monad which animates it, but is powerless to act upon the former directly.=20 P. 135 Why should heat on any other plane than ours be the perception of matter or substance in motion? Why should an occultist accept the condition of =20 (1) the actuating force;=20 (2) the form which is actuated;=20 (3) that which perceives the form in motion, as those of heat?=20 P. 135 As WITH EVERY ASCENDING PLANE HETEROGENEITY TENDS MORE AND MORE TO HOMOGENEITY, so on the seventh plane the form will disappear, there being nothing to be actuated, the acting Force will remain in solitary grandeur, to perceive but itself; ..or it will have become both "subject and object, the perceiver and the perceived." The terms used are not contradictory, but symbols borrowed from physical science in order to render occult action and processes more clear to the minds of those who are trained in that science.= =20 P. 135 In fact, each of the specifications of heat and force, corresponds to one of the principles in man. The "heat centers," from the physical standpoint, would be the zero-point, because they are spiritual.=20 P. 135 FOHAT IS THE AGENT OF THE LAW, ITS REPRESENTATIVE, THE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE MANASA-PUTRAS, WHOSE COLLECTIVITY IS=97THE ETERNAL MI= ND. P. 135-6 When a globe of a planetary chain goes into "obscuration" every quality, including heat, retires from it and it remains in statu quo, like the "sleeping Beauty," until Fohat, the "Prince Charmant," awakens it with a kiss.=20 P. 136 Nitya Pralaya. This is an eternal and perpetual Pralaya which is taking place ever since there were globes and differentiated matter. It is simply atomic change.=20 P. 136 =85"They embrace Infinitude"? =85 Through their own inherent and imprisoned force they strive collectively to join the one universal or free force, that is to say, embrace infinitude, this free force being infinite.= =20 P. 136 [relation between electricity and physical or animal magnetism and hypnotism? ] If by electricity, you mean the science which unfolds on this plane, and under a dozen various qualifications the phenomena and laws of the electric fluid=97then I answer, none at all. But if you refer to the electricity we call Fohatic, or intracosmic, then I will say that all these forms of phenomena are based on it. --------------------------------- Some SECRET DOCTRINE some references are: [courtesy of Theosophical University Press, Pasadena ] GRAVITY, Gravitation.=20 attraction & repulsion I 513, 604=20 bodies not under, (Airy) I 584n=20 cause of rotation, revolutions I 501=20 causes of I 513, 529-30=20 dual force, cosmic magnetism I 497=20 as force in open space I 511=20 hydrodynamic theories of I 486=20 is God, matter its prophet I 492=20 Kepler on I 497-9=20 Newton on I 478-9, 490-1=20 rotary motion &, theories I 504-6=20 secondary effect of other causes I 484, 490=20 tails of comets & I 504 ATTRACTION electricity & I 145=20 gravity & I 490-1, 500-6, 529-30, 604=20 kundalini-sakti & I 293=20 planetary motion not explained by I 529=20 repulsion & I 12n, 102-3, 293, 489, 497, 604=20 ROTARY MOTION,=20 ancient views of, (atomic) I 568-9=20 critique of scientific theories of I 501-2=20 heat fr collision produced I 250=20 intelligences & I 601=20 Master & Laplace q on I 592-4=20 origin of I 505-6, 529-30=20 origin of nebular I 97-8n, 500, 505-6=20 pantheists taught Earth's I 569=20 planetary I 593=20 reverse I 150n, 575, 593=20 of Solar System I 499-506=20 thirty-nine contradictory hypotheses I 504-6 ROTATION (of Earth) in Book of Enoch II 145, 314=20 changes in axis of II 314, 534=20 effects of slowing, described II 324-5=20 taught by ancients I 117n=20 Thor's Hammer symbolizes II 99=20 in Vendidad II 292=20 in Vishnu Purana II 155 VORTEX-ATOMS Thomson's, & early atomists I 117, 118n, 488-9, 492, 579 Vortical Movement, Vortical Theory aether & I 487=20 Greek concepts of, traced I 117=20 in primordial matter I 117-18=20 VORTICES of Descartes, & stars I 206n, 492=20 elemental, & Universal Mind I 623=20 initiates taught of atomic I 569=20 systemic, of Kepler I 623 CENTER(s). See also Laya,=20 cosmic focus I 11n=20 neutral, between planes I 148=20 seven atoms, of energy I 635=20 seven, of first root-race II 35n, 249, 732 CENTRAL SUN,=20 Central Spiritual Sun I 231, 379.=20=20=20 causes Fohat to collect dust I 201=20 central body of Milky Way II 240n=20 determines motions of bodies I 673=20 dhyani-chohans have not penetrated beyond I 13=20 electric fire of life II 114=20 formless invisible fire in I 87=20 our Sun emanates fr I 527n=20 our Sun reflection of I 100, 639=20 seven rays of I 574=20 Sun-Abrasax of kabbalists II 214=20 teachings re II 239-41=20 uncreated beam reflection of I 275-6 COMET(s). accumulate elements by circling I 204=20 all heavenly bodies become I 204=20 become stars I 206=20 collision w Earth theory II 330=20 curds become I 206, 250=20 early nebular evolution & I 599=20 of 1811 & gravity I 504=20 evolution of solar system & I 599=20 generated in solar system (Faye) I 500=20 laya-center becomes I 203-4=20 life came via a, (Thomson) I 366n=20 long-haired radicals I 503-4=20 Master quoted on I 593=20 matter of, unknown to science I 597=20 origin of I 500-6=20 planets were, & suns I 103, 596-7=20 prophecy by means of I 646=20 same substance as planets & Sun I 602=20 settles down as planet, Sun I 203-4=20 swallowed by suns I 204=20 tails of, & gravity I 504-5, 606-7=20 unexplained by science I 593=20 wanderers or I 201, 206, 250=20 world germs I 201 Commentary Matter I 504 different fr ordinary matter I 142, 597=20 planets & Sun evolved fr I 101 &n=20 stage for all heavenly bodies I 204=20 visible because luminous I 606-7 PLANE(s) (cosmic) diagram of I 200 &n=20 each atom has seven I 150=20 each, real to its denizens I 40, 296=20 energy on spiritual & physical I 644=20 everything conscious on its own I 274=20 Fall of Angels on every II 268=20 Fohat operates on all seven I 110-12, 328=20 fourth globe on lowest I 192=20 how to communicate w higher I 605=20 immortal ego acts on seven II 632-3=20 laya-centers & passage between I 148=20 light on our, darkness on higher I 450=20 manas irrational without atma-buddhi I 242n=20 man related to, of his upadhi II 157=20 mental, almost endless gradations I 175=20 midway halt betw astral & physical II 736=20 our consciousness limited to one I 20=20 principles correlated to I xxxv, 633=20 seven, & man's consciousness I 199=20 seven angelic, seven suns II 240-1=20 seven, called Seven Heavens II 273=20 seven globes on four lower I 152, 166; II 608=20 seven, of ideality II 335=20 subjective, objective I 176n, 189, 570, 603n=20 thickening of veil betw two II 281=20 three higher I 152=20 three higher, explained to initiates I 199=20 three higher, inaccessible to man I 200n=20 two poles on every I 41=20 visibility of globes & I 166=20 Zohar on I 239-40 PLANETARY almost all, worlds inhabited II 701=20 attraction &, motion I 529=20 conjunctions, importance of I 656=20 dissolution or pralaya I 159=20 gods, Agni-Vishnu-Surya head of II 361, 608=20 life-impulses & evolution II 697=20 motion & spirits (Kepler) I 499=20 orbits puzzled Newton I 498=20 powers, two aspects of I 633=20 round & globe round defined I 160=20 seven, creators Gnostic symbols I 73 METEORS Denton psychometrizes a I 201n=20 four, found w carbon II 706=20 gravity & I 503-4=20 life came via, (Thomson) I 366n, 488; II 158, 719, 730=20 origin of planets & I 500n=20 retrograde orbit of, & Fohat I 673=20 showers I 646, 672-3=20 substance of, laws governing I 504=20 system unexplained I 593 SPACE. See also Duration,=20 Absolute transcends time & I 1-2n; II 158=20 abstract, generator, female II 43=20 all born in, & time must die II 549=20 always part of larger increment I 87-8=20 aspect of Be-ness I 14-15=20 aspect of the Absolute I 43=20 astral light (akasa) is II 511-12=20 Bain on, & time I 251n=20 body of limitless extent I 342=20 boundless, infinite I 99, 113=20 boundless, of divine Plenum I 148=20 boundless void (science) I 587, 615=20 Brahma-Vishnu is infinite I 8n=20 bright, son of dark I 71-2=20 chaos is, (Aristotle) I 336n=20 chaos or unmanifested Deity II 269=20 chaos-theos-kosmos aspects of I 344=20 chaos, void, Ain-soph or I 109=20 cosmic, or devamatri I 53 &n=20 Crookes on I 550-1, 581n=20 dimensionless in every sense I 55=20 duration, matter, motion & I 55=20 of East not understood in West I 496n=20 eternal substance, boundless II 239n=20 every point in, animated II 513=20 female or chaos I 431; II 84=20 filled w atoms (Leucippus) I 2, 64, 117=20 first Mother, then Father-Mother I 18=20 Fohat divides I 674=20 force, matter &, (Pratt) I 615=20 fullness & void I 8, 35=20 good & evil progeny of, & time II 96=20 gravity as force pervading I 511=20 Hari as Brahma sleeps in I 371-2=20 incomprehensible deity I 35, 336n=20 Kronos beyond, & time I 418=20 Maqom stands for II 612=20 measurability of, absurd I 251=20 Parabrahman infinite cosmic I 6=20 perpetual motion & limitless I 2=20 potential & abstract I 4=20 Pratt on, & First Cause I 9n=20 realm of divine knowledge II 502=20 ruling intelligent powers in II 502=20 six directions of I 116, 118=20 spirit first differentiation in I 258=20 there is no empty I 289, 527 &n=20 thick w molecules I 150=20 time &, forms of Deity II 382n=20 unborn & undecaying II 487=20 unknowable living entity I 615=20 unknown container of all I 342=20 vacuum betw celestial bodies (Newton) I 491=20 whole finite kosmos called I 277 ------------------------------------------- All -- so very suggestive. Best wishes, Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20 -----Original Message----- From: Mark Hamilton Jr. Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 9:52 PM To:=20 Subject: "Gravity is only half a law" All theoretical, of course, but promising: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/01/06/hyperdrive/ It's a new way of decreasing the effects of gravity of an object; in this case, space craft escaping the earth's gravitational pull. At least it will save on the NASA's fuel bill. At most, it will change the way physicists view the universe. -Mark H. =20 From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Jan 09 05:20:07 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 16519 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2006 13:20:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2006 13:20:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.65) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 13:20:05 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Evww0-0003M7-MA; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 08:19:41 -0500 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 05:19:24 -0800 Message-ID: <008601c6151f$54879920$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <240.4e52e5a.30f341d6@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7938028038847154c6c6fb3d2367130a60350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.65 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: Appearance of the Masters X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=9AgOdDjTAXV8srpbYie5IntG0h-lS9ubGFaEJp9dGGLESw X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/9/2006 4:49 AM Dear Friends: Responding to a comment: "Any late breaking evidence that the Masters hav= e made more appearances lately? There's been a lot of noticeable discord recently." first, one might refer to this: ARE WE DESERTED ? FOLLOWING on the departure of H.P.B. from the scene of action, some weak voices in the Society have asked, "Have the Adepts deserted us?"=20 This question has also come from those who are not weak in character, but who certainly do not understand very clearly what the Adepts are or how The= y work. And in the use of the term "Adept" are included also "Mahatmas," "Brothers," "Masters." That these beings exist we have no manner of doubt, since for those who hav= e studied in the right way plenty of proof has been offered; for others the proofs exist within themselves. The former class has had tangible evidence in the way of letters and appearances of the Adepts before their eyes; the latter long ago concluded that the Masters are necessities of evolution.=20 Those who received proof palpable were those whose karma and past work entitled them to it; the others, having in previous lives gone through the experience and the argument, now quickly decided that, inasmuch as there ar= e grades of intelligence and wisdom and power below ourselves, so there must beyond us be still other grades, all leading up, ex necessitate rei, to the Adept or Master of whatever degree. Now in the Society's ranks there have always been three mental positions held in respect to the question whether or not the Adepts - once admitted a= s existing - have anything in particular to do with the Theosophical Society. These are, first, that they have; second, that they have not; third, sometimes doubt about it, at others surety that they have, - in fact, wavering. Those who think that the T.S. movement is merely a natural development of thought cannot be affected by the present discussion; the first and third classes are interested in the matter.=20 To those it should at once occur that in the West the idea of the existence of the Adepts and of Their connection with our movement was first brought forward in this century and in our Society by H.P. Blavatsky, who, consistently throughout her career, has declared that the Adepts - whom she was pleased to call her Masters - directed her to engage in this work and have always helped and directed her throughout.=20 That They should so direct her and then desert the Society she founded merely because her body came to its dissolution seems so illogical as to be unthinkable. Many persons have affirmed to the reception of messages in writing from the same Masters, in which They said that some of Their effort= s were for the benefit of the T.S. Among these persons we may mention Mr. A.P= . Sinnett, who has never abandoned that position, and who today possesses a great number of such letters. Why should the unseen founders withdraw Their help when the work of the Society has but just begun to have its due effect upon the age? There seems to be no reasonable reply. Once that we admit the existence of the Adepts and that They have adopted the T.S. as one of Their agents in this century for disseminating the truth about man and nature, we are bound to suppose that ordinary common-sense rules would govern as to the continuance of help or its withdrawal.=20 Now one of the most obvious conclusions is that the Society should not be deserted until it had accomplished its mission or had utterly failed. Sixteen years of steady work show an enormous effect produced upon the thought of America, Europe, and Asia; but that portion of the work has been in the line of fighting against odds and breaking down of opposition, with = a beginning in this sixteenth year of an interest in the doctrines brought to the attention of the West by the efforts of our members. From that we must, as reasonable and foresighted beings, deduce the necessity for continuance of assistance. It is plain that our work of clear promulgation and wise building-up is still before us. Why then should the Adepts desert us? Still no reasonable reply can be found. But considering what we know of the motives and methods held and pursued by the Adepts, we cannot for a moment suppose our real founders and constant helpers could yet leave us to fight alone. In letters and messages from The= m we read that Their motive is to help the moral - and hence external - progress of humanity, and Their methods to work from behind the scenes by means of agents suited for the work.=20 Those letters and messages also say that the agency is not restricted to on= e person, but that all sincere lovers of truth are used to that end, whether they know of it or not. The departure of H.P.B. does not remove the other sincere lovers of truth from the scene, nor does it prevent the Adepts from sending messages if needed. Such messages have been received before H.P.B.'= s departure by persons in no way connected with her, and have since that sad event also come to encourage those who are entitled to such encouragement. The contents of these are not for the public, nor indeed for any one save those to whom they have come. Yet even if no such messages had been received, there is ample evidence, fo= r those who are not blind, of the help of the Masters. For, as They said long ago that the work would be helped, so it has been; no other reason can be given for the increase of the work in America, since their personal effort put forth by the members will not account for the spreading of the movement= . And now let it stand as a prophecy made in the messages spoken of, that in the kingdom of Great Britain and in Europe there will in five years be seen a similar spreading of Theosophy. Let no one of us, then, be in any way cas= t down. As the Masters exist, so They help us; and as we deserve, so will the= y repay. W.Q.J. PATH, August, 1891 =20 -------------------------- Secondly, one finds interesting and apposite information in a letter (in part) from HPB: Mme. BLAVATSKY ON "THE HIMALAYAN BROTHERS" "...Styling himself an adept, whose "Hierophant is a western gentleman," bu= t a few lines further on he confesses his utter ignorance of the existence of a body which cannot possibly be ignored by any true adept! I say "cannot" for there is no accepted neophyte on the whole globe but at least knows of the Himalayan Fraternity.=20 The sanction to receive the last and supreme initiation, the real "word at low breath" can come but through those fraternities in Egypt, India, and Thibet to one of which belongs "Koot Hoomi Lal Singh." True, there is "adept" and adept, and they differ, as there are adepts in more than one ar= t and science.=20 I, for one, know in America of a shoemaker, who advertised himself as "an adept in the high art of manufacturing Parisian cothurns." J.K. speaks of Brothers "on the soul plane," of "divine Kabbalah culminating in God," of "slave magic," and so on, a phraseology which proves to me most conclusivel= y that he is but one of those dabblers in western occultism which were so wel= l represented some years ago, by French-born "Egyptians" and "Algerians," who told people their fortunes by the Tarot, and placed their visitors within enchanted circles with a Tetragrammaton inscribed in the centre.=20 I do not say J.K. is one of the latter, I beg him to understand. Though quite unknown to me and hiding behind his two initials, I will not follow his rude example and insult him for all that. But I say and repeat that his language sadly betrays him. If a Kabbalist at all, then himself and his "Hierophant" are but the humble self-taught pupils of the mediaeval, and so-called "Christian" Kabbalists; of adepts, who, like Agrippa, Khunrath, Paracelsus, Vaughan, Robert Fludd, and several others, revealed their knowledge to the world but to better conceal it, and who never gave the key to it in their writings.=20 He bombastically asserts his own knowledge and power, and proceeds to pass judgment on people of whom he knows and can know nothing. Of the "Brothers" he says: "If they are true adepts, they have not shown much worldly wisdom, and the organization which is to inculcate their doctrine is a complete failure, for even the very first psychical and physical principles of true Theosophy and occult science are quite unknown to and unpractised by the members of that organization--the Theosophical Society."=20 How does he know? Did the Theosophists take him into their confidence? And if he knows something of the British Theosophical Society, what can he know of those in India? If he belongs to any of them, then does he play false to the whole body and is a traitor. And if he does not, what has he to say of its practitioners, since the Society in general, and especially its esoteri= c sections that count but a very few "chosen ones"--are secret bodies?=20 The more attentively I read his article the more am I inclined to laugh at the dogmatic tone prevailing in it. Were I a Spiritualist, I would be inclined to suspect in it a good "goak" of John King, whose initials are represented in the signature of J.K.=20 Let him first learn, that mirific Brother of the "Western Hermetic Circle i= n the soul-plane," a few facts about the adepts in general, before he renders himself any more ridiculous.=20 ADEPTS IN GENERAL (1) No true adept will on any consideration whatever reveal himself as one, to the profane. Nor would he ever speak in such terms of contempt of people= , who are certainly no more silly, and, in many an instance, far wiser than himself. But were even the Theosophists the poor misled creatures he would represent them to be, a true adept would rather help than deride them.=20 (2) There never was a true Initiate but knew of the secret Fraternities in the East. It is not Eliphas Levi who would ever deny their existence, since we have his authentic signature to the contrary. Even P. B. Randolph, that wondrous, though erratic, genius of America, that half-initiated seer, who got his knowledge in the East, had good reasons to know of their actual existence, as his writings can prove.=20 (3) One who ever perorates upon his occult knowledge, and speaks of practising his powers in the name of some particular prophet, deity, or Avatar, is but a sectarian mystic at best. He cannot be an adept in the Eastern sense--a Mahatma, for his judgment will always be biased and prejudiced by the colouring of his own special and dogmatic religion.=20 (4) The great science, called by the vulgar "magic," and by its Eastern proficients Gupta Vidya, embracing as it does each and every science, since it is the acme of knowledge, and constitutes the perfection of philosophy, is universal: hence--as very truly remarked--cannot be confined to one particular nation or geographical locality.=20 But, as Truth is one, the method for the attainment of its highest proficiency must necessarily be also one. It cannot be subdivided, for, onc= e reduced to parts, each of them, left to itself, will, like rays of light, diverge from, instead of converging to, its centre, the ultimate goal of knowledge; and these parts can rebecome the Whole only by collecting them together again, or each fraction will remain but a fraction.=20 This truism, which may be termed elementary mathematics for little boys, ha= s to be re-called, in order to refresh the memory of such "adepts" as are too apt to forget that "Christian Kabbalism" is but a fraction of Universal Occult Science. And, if they believe that they have nothing more to learn, then the less they turn to "Eastern Adepts" for information the better and the less trouble for both.=20 There is but one royal road to "Divine Magic"; neglect and abandon it to devote yourself specially to one of the paths diverging from it, and like a lonely wanderer you will find yourself lost in an inextricable labyrinth. Magic, I suppose, existed millenniums before the Christian era; and, if so, are we to think then, with our too learned friends, the modern "Western Kabbalists," that it was all Black Magic, practised by the "Old firm of Devil & Co."? ... By centralizing the Occult Power and his course of actions, in some one national God or Avatar, whether in Jehovah or Christ, Brahma or Mahomet, th= e Kabbalist diverges the more from the one central Truth.=20 It is but THE OCCULTIST, THE EASTERN ADEPT, WHO STANDS A FREE MAN, omnipotent through its own Divine Spirit as much as man can be on earth.=20 He has rid himself of all human conceptions and religious side-issues; he i= s at one and the same time a Chaldean Sage, a Persian Magi, a Greek Theurgist= , an Egyptian Hermetist, a Buddhist Rahat and an Indian Yogi.=20 He has collected into one bundle all the separate fractions of Truth widely scattered over the nations, and holds in his hand the One Truth, a torch of light which no adverse wind can bend, blow out or even cause to waver. ... True, "Koot Hoomi" mentions Buddha. But it is not because the brothers hold him in the light of God or even of "a God," but simply because he is the Patron of the Thibetan Occultists, the greatest of the Illuminati and adepts, self-initiated by his own Divine Spirit or "God-self" unto all the mysteries of the invisible universe. [ MAHATMA LETTERS (Barker), pp. 33, 43-4, 58, 96, 196 ] Therefore to speak of imitating "the life of Christ," or that of Buddha, or Zoroaster, or any other man on earth chosen and accepted by any one special nation for its God and leader, is to show oneself a Sectarian even in Kabbalism, that fraction of the one "Universal Science"-- Occultism. OCCULTISM. THE LATTER IS PRE-HISTORIC AND IS COEVAL WITH INTELLIGENCE. The Sun shines for the heathen Asiatic as well as for the Christian European an= d for the former still more gloriously, I am glad to say.=20 To conclude, it is enough to glance at that sentence of more than questionable propriety, and more fit to emanate from the pen of a Jesuit than that of a Kabbalist, which allows of the supposition that the "Brothers" are only a branch of the old established firm of "Devil and Co." to feel convinced that beyond some "Abracadabra" dug out from an old mouldy MS. of Christian Kabbalism, J.K. knows nothing.=20 It is but on the unsophisticated profane, or a very innocent Spiritualist, that his bombastic sentences, all savouring of the Anche is son pittore, that he may produce some sensation.=20 True, there is no need of going absolutely to Thibet or India to find some knowledge and power "which are latent in every human soul"; but the acquisition of the highest knowledge and power require not only many years of the severest study enlightened by a superior intelligence and an audacit= y bent by no peril; but also as many years of retreat in comparative solitude= , and association with but students pursuing the same object, in a locality where nature itself preserves like the neophyte an absolute and unbroken stillness if not silence! where the air is free for hundreds of miles aroun= d of all mephytic influence; the atmosphere and human magnetism absolutely pure, and--no animal blood is spilt. Is it in London or even the most country-hidden village of England that such conditions can be found? --H. P. BLAVATSKY =09 Bombay, July 20th.=20 SPIRITUALIST (London), August 12, 1881 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This document speaks for itself. Best wishes, Dallas =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: Drpsionic Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 8:35 PM To:=20 Subject: Re: Appearance of the Masters =20 Any late breaking evidence that the Masters have made more appearances lately? There's been a lot of noticeable discord recently. From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Jan 09 06:02:05 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55504 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2006 14:02:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2006 14:02:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.65) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 14:02:02 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.243] (helo=DALLAS) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Evxao-0006UC-CG; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 09:01:50 -0500 To: Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 06:01:37 -0800 Message-ID: <008a01c61525$3892dd00$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec799f67296ab875d835ebe34eda97e0dc89350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.65 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: will development X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=E30wIqhhTueFsoBcFavJqPrnLIgCPQSpBfOxrFyJg59W5g X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/9/2006 5:44 AM RE: WILL development Dear G. W: Is "passion" not an intensity of DESIRE ? Seems to me the amount of energy one puts into such things is significant. Behind will stands DESIRE -- and does not MOTIVE drive Karma? To me the aim (motive) seems important. In every decision we make, the always-present knife-edge is: "selfishness vs. unselfishness." We cannot avoid influencing others all around us -- especially the life-atoms. They, being impressed, are the "carriers" of our Karma. No on= e is ever totally "alone."=20 =20 Will -- Universal Source And Individual Will =20 =20 I will try and explain my understanding and approach. =20 I start in my mind's survey with looking at "Will" as an independent force of universal life (JIV-ATMA) innate in each MONAD and in the KOSMIC MONAD (shall I call it the CENTRAL SPIRITUAL SUN and the individualized "rays" o= f that ONE SUN, and shall I add that the "C S SUN " "contains each and every of its uncountable "rays ?") =20 It is said that the objective of evolution is the individualized "PERFECT" [a phrase used by Krishna in the BHAGAVAD GITA ] of the Monadic Rays produces the Divine Race of the Mahatmas (Great Souls) .=20=20 =20 "Perfection," as we might visualize it (with our "Lower-Mind), is a complet= e knowledge of the Universe in its diversity. And, by intuition (Buddhi) and initiation of the UNITY OF ONE in the MANY and THE ULTIMATE RESOLUTION of the "MANY" back into the ONE - an event that does not obliterate that INDIVIDUALITY, but, rather, makes of it an active trusted participant in th= e eternal and continued tasks of illuminating the many remaining Monads on th= e "Path." - Raising them up to that same state of "Perfection." But even "Perfection" is not a static condition (or the securing of a "professorship" degree) as it also has degrees and responsibilities. =20 The state of "Perfection" as Krishna describes it, (BHAGAVAD GITA), is one of continued action under ETERNAL and UNIVERSAL KARMA - which is inherent a= s the ONE LAW in the illimitable Spiritual Universe, whether that be in Manvantara or in Pralaya at any one time. =20 This group of Divine Laborers, is in one sense, the Ancient and Eternal Lodge of the BUDDHAS and Adepts - stretching back over uncountable Manvantaras and Kalpas - see S D I 207 - 210. =20 These are just some further musings: =20 "Will is the force of any and all degrees of intelligence; it is inherent in consciousness as "the power to act." Q & A., p. 40 =20 =20 Is this not the knowledge and power to choose at any level, the lowest and then progressively, of any degree of "advancement?" =20 I see a general "Will" and also the many manifestations of individual choice. Are those not also will and Karmic "generators?" =20 Any "restraining action" implies there is a duality present {actually a qua= d (?), since there is the decider, and the common environment, too}: this duality is, broadly: moderation and immoderate action -- as choices -- at all times of continued living by every Monadic entity (which necessarily involves all Monads in a brotherly conclave - NO ONE IS EVER "ALONE"). As in an ocean there are innumerable "drops" surging and receding as units, an= d also bound in to groups -- in unison (attraction), and in discord (repulsion). =20 There is Karma as a dynamic FORCE - perhaps we might say it is the ultimate spiritual harmony - and, to escape the inane stasis (MORBIDITY) to divine spirit in isolation, [S D II 103] its work is the harmonizing and maintaining of universal peace, progress, mutual assistance and harmony - through individualized WISDOM ( BUDDHI).=20 =20 Does this not produce the actual Lodge of ever-living ADEPTS of many degree= s of responsibility?=20 =20 This "Buddhi" is dual: (1) as a "principle," and (2) as an active force based on a sense of unity and knowledge of all the rest,=20 =20 Here I think we may say: - that is in required essence: true WISDOM and COMPASSION, if the resulting choices are to harmonize with the environment (all levels and classes of Monads in evolution, individual progress and as groups),=20 =20 The "power to chose," seems logically to have to be carried on momentarily, in an environment that is "dependent and simultaneously independent," and there, to sustain and maintain individual and conjoint progress - no infringing on other's rights and their power of self-action - only 'assistance on request' permitted.=20=20 =20 This is (as I see it) choice, action, and acceptance of "results" - these three, that only the free and independent Mind Monads - as MANASIC SPARKS -- can (in their freedom) choose to do. Here as I see it is the "field of combat" where inopportune urges of selfish desire, passions and emotion - "KAMA" have to be identified, understood, and then regulated (subdued). And returned to their useful and proper places as the forces that propel to evolution - found in every aspect and unit of LIFE -- (Monad).=20 =20 The "progress of the Universe," is that of a procession of volunteers. Volunteers in the work of assisting all others. BROTHERHOOD in all directions and levels. And the highest most spiritual action has to be tha= t which is harmonious with one and all. And that takes supernal spiritual WISDOM. It is conducted intelligently by Mind-beings-monads at that stage and level where wisdom-guided decisions can be made -one in which the fullest extent of "Knowledge" has to be developed in the "Lower-Mind." The choice is (without question or exception) an exercise of individualized "will." Or am I wrong? =20 I would also consider: When and how did "Nature" (the schema of the lower forces that propel all life) determine the need for an "Oak tree" and devis= e also the acorn as a seed to bridge the gap and fill then need for future material generations? Is this then not a secondary force? One that assists? One that functions inharmony with many others? Independent to a limited degree - true. Yet also very dependent on environment and the needs of future potential "users."=20 =20 Certainly it is "Universal Will" departmentalized and operating where neede= d in specific forms --- and so for all aspects and divisions, species and genera, etc., ad infinitum. But when analysis fails with quantity, what is the basic and fundamental need for this the reuniting force of purpose and quality?=20 =20 Is this not the field of evolution, a living "platform" - a "world" where Nature builds forms based on the Karma and affinities and needs of an earlier time? -Is it not in such an event the acing of Karma -- as a pulling together of the causes of specific groups of Monads working together, which now require special new forms (as results) to serve a greater purpose? In the 'Lower Kingdoms' of Nature such concatenations (Nidana) are more easy to see, but when we come to mankind the difficulty increase a thousand-fold.=20 =20 The "lower forces" seem t focus in the general principle of "Kama." The controlling forces are focused in the [Higher] Mind - guided by Buddhi as (accumulated experience transformed from many past lives into universal and individual WISDOM, and, the ever present "TUTOR' the Perceiver, Observer, Watcher -our Higher Self - ATMA - [ and here we are confronted with what is fond taught in S D II 167 (and elsewhere in the S D ) - the concept that there are 2 Egos in Man - one being the ultimate chooser for that aggregate= d 'form,' which the Monad that is the learner (and is trying to make the grade) - and its older Brother -- the eternal tutor - a MONAD that had become an ADEPT long back.] =20 A friend wrote: "As I write the image arises of cosmic ideation / intelligence with its endless archetypal forms being like the multi-stained coloured glass windows throug= h which the colourless light of universal Will-force radiates and thus projects and fixes those images on 'matter', cosmic substance. Much like the 'formless image' in the undulating light waves is 'fixed' by the *power= * of light on a photographic film." =20 May I ask several questions?=20 =20 How were those living "stained glass" windows formed? But whom or What =20 Is the "will force" Kama-Deva" ( see THEOSOPHICAL GLOSSARY, pp. 170-1) in its pristine Cosmic sense, the eternal Cause ? =20 How does it and Karma work?=20=20 =20 How are the (eternal Pilgrims -- Monads) affected?=20 =20 Why is it a necessary fact that all monads have to go through the "temptations" of the Lower aspect of Nature?=20=20 =20 How is it possible that un-lawfulness be so attractive to some?=20 =20 But is not our "small" will as mighty as the rest if we pit ourselves against the whole power to reach for perfection -- also resident in every Monad, and the whole illimitable and eternal Universe of Monads ? =20 I would say that in every Monad, the individual MIND-PRINCIPLE has to acquire the knowledge of the LAWS that guide all evolution, and then, with that make decisions.=20=20 =20 So taking stock, we have to test and learn the lore and expressed experiences of past pilgrims (some of those being our earlier incarnations)= , and then, becoming wise we exercise our power to choose. Here comes the knife edge of present living -- for selfishness or for benevolence to all?= =20 =20 =20 Best wishes, Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 -----Original Message----- From: Gordon W Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 9:18 AM To:=20 Subject: RE: will development Could it be intense passion? G =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Hello Friends, =20=20=20 Dallas recently mentioned "indomitable will." Suggestions on how to develop that great faculty will be welcomed. =20=20=20 From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Mon Jan 09 09:19:00 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1665 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2006 17:18:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2006 17:18:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.40) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 17:18:59 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2006 17:18:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2006 17:18:55 -0000 Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 17:18:54 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.40 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: The Temple of the Presence....In answer to the Ascended Masters El Morya and... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=QEfCyoP-IXbm0c14rt4kn-MyqnRUV0qtxVEVd9YaidaIMGFoq8Iyiea1 X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell "The New Dispensation A Dawning New Day from the Great Central Sun! "In answer to the Ascended Masters El Morya and Saint Germain, the Cosmic Councils have released the Dispensation for The Temple of The Presence. At the present time, the Ascended Masters have anointed Monroe and Carolyn Shearer as Their Messengers to the outside world. As with their predecessors in this spiritual Office, Monroe and Carolyn have been preparing for this mission for several embodiments. After training separately in this lifetime, they were brought together in 1993 and received full Sponsorship from the Great White Brotherhood for their public service through The Temple of The Presence in 1995. The first public address (Dictation) from an Ascended Master was from Beloved Morya on May 8, 1995. The first Quarterly Conference was "The Daystar Festival" in July of 1996 in which each of the Seven Holy Kumaras spoke (six for the first time in a public release)." "Beloved Morya and Saint Germain are the principal Sponsors for The Temple of The Presence, together with the Lord Maha Chohan, Lord Maitreya, Gautama Buddha, and the Seven Holy Kumaras. The Messengers, Monroe and Carolyn Shearer, deliver Discourses and Dictations directly from the Masters who are Themselves present in Their Ascended Master Bodies. The Release of Light that takes place on these occasions surpasses all previous experience of those in attendance. Those who have been privileged to take part in the implementation of this new Dispensation have been blessed beyond measure by the Opportunity to work with the Great Ones and receive Their very Personal Instruction." Quoted from: http://www.templeofthepresence.org/temple.htm =20 =20 From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Mon Jan 09 09:19:50 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71626 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2006 17:19:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2006 17:19:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.54) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 17:19:50 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2006 17:18:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2006 17:18:52 -0000 Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 17:18:51 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.54 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: The Temple of the Presence....In answer to the Ascended Masters El Morya and... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=-C70Mw46SVnPZdL01EhXdB22qGugBHBO9mMAe-HiUg9MCFiF3Aeq65Mx X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell "The New Dispensation A Dawning New Day from the Great Central Sun! "In answer to the Ascended Masters El Morya and Saint Germain, the Cosmic Councils have released the Dispensation for The Temple of The Presence. At the present time, the Ascended Masters have anointed Monroe and Carolyn Shearer as Their Messengers to the outside world. As with their predecessors in this spiritual Office, Monroe and Carolyn have been preparing for this mission for several embodiments. After training separately in this lifetime, they were brought together in 1993 and received full Sponsorship from the Great White Brotherhood for their public service through The Temple of The Presence in 1995. The first public address (Dictation) from an Ascended Master was from Beloved Morya on May 8, 1995. The first Quarterly Conference was "The Daystar Festival" in July of 1996 in which each of the Seven Holy Kumaras spoke (six for the first time in a public release)." "Beloved Morya and Saint Germain are the principal Sponsors for The Temple of The Presence, together with the Lord Maha Chohan, Lord Maitreya, Gautama Buddha, and the Seven Holy Kumaras. The Messengers, Monroe and Carolyn Shearer, deliver Discourses and Dictations directly from the Masters who are Themselves present in Their Ascended Master Bodies. The Release of Light that takes place on these occasions surpasses all previous experience of those in attendance. Those who have been privileged to take part in the implementation of this new Dispensation have been blessed beyond measure by the Opportunity to work with the Great Ones and receive Their very Personal Instruction." Quoted from: http://www.templeofthepresence.org/temple.htm =20 =20 From arhat_buddhism@yahoo.com Mon Jan 09 10:13:49 2006 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9209 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2006 18:13:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2006 18:13:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.221) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 18:13:47 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2006 18:13:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2006 18:13:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.69] by mailer5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2006 18:13:13 -0000 X-Sender: arhat_buddhism@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89059 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2006 15:31:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2006 15:31:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web54701.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.191) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 15:31:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 12451 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Jan 2006 15:31:58 -0000 Message-ID: <20060109153158.12449.qmail@web54701.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [201.0.6.104] by web54701.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 07:31:58 PST Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 07:31:58 -0800 (PST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <008a01c61525$3892dd00$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.49.191 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Bhikshuni Ariya Subject: Re: Theos-World RE: will development X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218337227; y=vaG_PfptWBh3eOLn1yZWq3rAWgvbq8oqb5GIwByJiMRG4pSr8FmDsis X-Yahoo-Profile: arhat_buddhism Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: eldon_tucker via web; 09 Jan 2006 18:13:13 -0000 Passion is an invincible power. Compassion is an invincible will. "W.Dallas TenBroeck" wrote: 1/9/2006 5:44 AM RE: WILL development Dear G. W: Is "passion" not an intensity of DESIRE ? Seems to me the amount of energy one puts into such things is significant. Behind will stands DESIRE -- and does not MOTIVE drive Karma? To me the aim (motive) seems important. In every decision we make, the always-present knife-edge is: "selfishness vs. unselfishness." We cannot avoid influencing others all around us -- especially the life-atoms. They, being impressed, are the "carriers" of our Karma. No one is ever totally "alone." Will -- Universal Source And Individual Will I will try and explain my understanding and approach. I start in my mind's survey with looking at "Will" as an independent force of universal life (JIV-ATMA) innate in each MONAD and in the KOSMIC MONAD (shall I call it the CENTRAL SPIRITUAL SUN and the individualized "rays" of that ONE SUN, and shall I add that the "C S SUN " "contains each and every of its uncountable "rays ?") It is said that the objective of evolution is the individualized "PERFECT" [a phrase used by Krishna in the BHAGAVAD GITA ] of the Monadic Rays produces the Divine Race of the Mahatmas (Great Souls) . "Perfection," as we might visualize it (with our "Lower-Mind), is a complete knowledge of the Universe in its diversity. And, by intuition (Buddhi) and initiation of the UNITY OF ONE in the MANY and THE ULTIMATE RESOLUTION of the "MANY" back into the ONE - an event that does not obliterate that INDIVIDUALITY, but, rather, makes of it an active trusted participant in the eternal and continued tasks of illuminating the many remaining Monads on the "Path." - Raising them up to that same state of "Perfection." But even "Perfection" is not a static condition (or the securing of a "professorship" degree) as it also has degrees and responsibilities. The state of "Perfection" as Krishna describes it, (BHAGAVAD GITA), is one of continued action under ETERNAL and UNIVERSAL KARMA - which is inherent as the ONE LAW in the illimitable Spiritual Universe, whether that be in Manvantara or in Pralaya at any one time. This group of Divine Laborers, is in one sense, the Ancient and Eternal Lodge of the BUDDHAS and Adepts - stretching back over uncountable Manvantaras and Kalpas - see S D I 207 - 210. These are just some further musings: "Will is the force of any and all degrees of intelligence; it is inherent in consciousness as "the power to act." Q & A., p. 40 Is this not the knowledge and power to choose at any level, the lowest and then progressively, of any degree of "advancement?" I see a general "Will" and also the many manifestations of individual choice. Are those not also will and Karmic "generators?" Any "restraining action" implies there is a duality present {actually a quad (?), since there is the decider, and the common environment, too}: this duality is, broadly: moderation and immoderate action -- as choices -- at all times of continued living by every Monadic entity (which necessarily involves all Monads in a brotherly conclave - NO ONE IS EVER "ALONE"). As in an ocean there are innumerable "drops" surging and receding as units, and also bound in to groups -- in unison (attraction), and in discord (repulsion). There is Karma as a dynamic FORCE - perhaps we might say it is the ultimate spiritual harmony - and, to escape the inane stasis (MORBIDITY) to divine spirit in isolation, [S D II 103] its work is the harmonizing and maintaining of universal peace, progress, mutual assistance and harmony - through individualized WISDOM ( BUDDHI). Does this not produce the actual Lodge of ever-living ADEPTS of many degrees of responsibility? This "Buddhi" is dual: (1) as a "principle," and (2) as an active force based on a sense of unity and knowledge of all the rest, Here I think we may say: - that is in required essence: true WISDOM and COMPASSION, if the resulting choices are to harmonize with the environment (all levels and classes of Monads in evolution, individual progress and as groups), The "power to chose," seems logically to have to be carried on momentarily, in an environment that is "dependent and simultaneously independent," and there, to sustain and maintain individual and conjoint progress - no infringing on other's rights and their power of self-action - only 'assistance on request' permitted. This is (as I see it) choice, action, and acceptance of "results" - these three, that only the free and independent Mind Monads - as MANASIC SPARKS -- can (in their freedom) choose to do. Here as I see it is the "field of combat" where inopportune urges of selfish desire, passions and emotion - "KAMA" have to be identified, understood, and then regulated (subdued). And returned to their useful and proper places as the forces that propel to evolution - found in every aspect and unit of LIFE -- (Monad). The "progress of the Universe," is that of a procession of volunteers. Volunteers in the work of assisting all others. BROTHERHOOD in all directions and levels. And the highest most spiritual action has to be that which is harmonious with one and all. And that takes supernal spiritual WISDOM. It is conducted intelligently by Mind-beings-monads at that stage and level where wisdom-guided decisions can be made -one in which the fullest extent of "Knowledge" has to be developed in the "Lower-Mind." The choice is (without question or exception) an exercise of individualized "will." Or am I wrong? I would also consider: When and how did "Nature" (the schema of the lower forces that propel all life) determine the need for an "Oak tree" and devise also the acorn as a seed to bridge the gap and fill then need for future material generations? Is this then not a secondary force? One that assists? One that functions inharmony with many others? Independent to a limited degree - true. Yet also very dependent on environment and the needs of future potential "users." Certainly it is "Universal Will" departmentalized and operating where needed in specific forms --- and so for all aspects and divisions, species and genera, etc., ad infinitum. But when analysis fails with quantity, what is the basic and fundamental need for this the reuniting force of purpose and quality? Is this not the field of evolution, a living "platform" - a "world" where Nature builds forms based on the Karma and affinities and needs of an earlier time? -Is it not in such an event the acing of Karma -- as a pulling together of the causes of specific groups of Monads working together, which now require special new forms (as results) to serve a greater purpose? In the 'Lower Kingdoms' of Nature such concatenations (Nidana) are more easy to see, but when we come to mankind the difficulty increase a thousand-fold. The "lower forces" seem t focus in the general principle of "Kama." The controlling forces are focused in the [Higher] Mind - guided by Buddhi as (accumulated experience transformed from many past lives into universal and individual WISDOM, and, the ever present "TUTOR' the Perceiver, Observer, Watcher -our Higher Self - ATMA - [ and here we are confronted with what is fond taught in S D II 167 (and elsewhere in the S D ) - the concept that there are 2 Egos in Man - one being the ultimate chooser for that aggregated 'form,' which the Monad that is the learner (and is trying to make the grade) - and its older Brother -- the eternal tutor - a MONAD that had become an ADEPT long back.] A friend wrote: "As I write the image arises of cosmic ideation / intelligence with its endless archetypal forms being like the multi-stained coloured glass windows through which the colourless light of universal Will-force radiates and thus projects and fixes those images on 'matter', cosmic substance. Much like the 'formless image' in the undulating light waves is 'fixed' by the *power* of light on a photographic film." May I ask several questions? How were those living "stained glass" windows formed? But whom or What Is the "will force" Kama-Deva" ( see THEOSOPHICAL GLOSSARY, pp. 170-1) in its pristine Cosmic sense, the eternal Cause ? How does it and Karma work? How are the (eternal Pilgrims -- Monads) affected? Why is it a necessary fact that all monads have to go through the "temptations" of the Lower aspect of Nature? How is it possible that un-lawfulness be so attractive to some? But is not our "small" will as mighty as the rest if we pit ourselves against the whole power to reach for perfection -- also resident in every Monad, and the whole illimitable and eternal Universe of Monads ? I would say that in every Monad, the individual MIND-PRINCIPLE has to acquire the knowledge of the LAWS that guide all evolution, and then, with that make decisions. So taking stock, we have to test and learn the lore and expressed experiences of past pilgrims (some of those being our earlier incarnations), and then, becoming wise we exercise our power to choose. Here comes the knife edge of present living -- for selfishness or for benevolence to all? Best wishes, Dallas ================================= -----Original Message----- From: Gordon W Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 9:18 AM To: Subject: RE: will development Could it be intense passion? G ============================== Hello Friends, Dallas recently mentioned "indomitable will." Suggestions on how to develop that great faculty will be welcomed. Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From arhat_buddhism@yahoo.com Mon Jan 09 10:14:26 2006 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24356 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2006 18:14:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2006 18:14:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.41) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 18:14:26 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2006 18:13:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2006 18:13:11 -0000 X-Sender: arhat_buddhism@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59697 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2006 15:30:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2006 15:30:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web54711.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.201) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 15:30:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 70397 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Jan 2006 15:30:53 -0000 Message-ID: <20060109153053.70395.qmail@web54711.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [201.0.6.104] by web54711.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 07:30:53 PST Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 07:30:53 -0800 (PST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <000a01c613c3$047e14c0$747a3456@khidr6094418a5> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.49.201 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Bhikshuni Ariya Subject: Re: Theos-World El-Khidr - Avatar and Christ principle X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218337227; y=DyCZowK9OZdl3AcqE1KA3GlaBp1enzumJNFGQpwNtUjvw-EPDz7Bz9g X-Yahoo-Profile: arhat_buddhism Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: eldon_tucker via web; 09 Jan 2006 18:13:11 -0000 Theosophy has its own secret teachers. We shall keep it that way. "M. Sufilight" wrote: Hallo all, The following might be interesting to some of the readers. THE SECRET TEACHER (Idries Shah from "Thinkers of the East") A man found the secret teacher Khidr working as a ferryman. Khidr read his thoughts, and said to him: "If I approach people in the street and tell them what to do, they will think I am mad, or am doing it for myself, and they will not do it. If I dress like a learned or rich man, and advise them, they will disobey or else simply try to please me, instead of trying to please that which I represent. But if I mix with the people and say a word here and a word there, some will listen, just as you yourself recognized me, and a thousand others did not." A few words on El-Khidr, good and evil. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Khidr from M. Sufilight with peace and love... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links =09=09 --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos =96 Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover Photo Books. You design it and we=92ll bind it! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From arhat_buddhism@yahoo.com Mon Jan 09 10:14:35 2006 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7337 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2006 18:14:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2006 18:14:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.56) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 18:14:31 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2006 18:13:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2006 18:13:10 -0000 X-Sender: arhat_buddhism@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62210 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2006 15:28:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2006 15:28:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web54706.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.196) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 15:28:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 39226 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Jan 2006 15:28:51 -0000 Message-ID: <20060109152851.39224.qmail@web54706.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [201.0.6.104] by web54706.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 07:28:51 PST Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 07:28:51 -0800 (PST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.49.196 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Bhikshuni Ariya Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Appearance of the Masters X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=218337227; y=HVCzZmxzLPCkLiHc_wwOcBWl6CiOJtF7lfFUDckg3unzF2fCWnKw164 X-Yahoo-Profile: arhat_buddhism Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: eldon_tucker via web; 09 Jan 2006 18:13:08 -0000 I am here, Pedro.=20 prmoliveira wrote: --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.c= om, "Mark Hamilton Jr."=20 wrote: > Any late breaking evidence that the Masters have made more=20 appearances > lately? There's been a lot of noticeable discord recently. There seem to have been a number of *appearances*, but not necessarily=20 of the Masters. After all, an appearance is what comes in sight, which=20 is not always a reality. pedro=20 Yahoo! Groups Links =09=09 --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos =96 Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover Photo Books. You design it and we=92ll bind it! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Jan 09 13:58:08 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50953 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2006 21:58:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2006 21:58:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.65) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 21:58:02 -0000 Received: from [216.175.78.28] (helo=DALLAS) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Ew51U-0006ST-CA; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 16:57:53 -0500 To: Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 13:57:36 -0800 Message-ID: <009401c61567$b892a1b0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec790037705a9803eafbc67293769330942e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.65 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: Re: LORD'S PRAYER OM X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=PCo1_fPwtNSD03jU9PPEQVssD_QIovChIADkezKqrjibbQ X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/9/2006 1:53 PM Dear Friends: H P B writes on this subject:=20=20 THE YOGA PHILOSOPHY =20 NOTE: The paragraphs in small type within square brackets are summarized from an article in The Theosophist to which H.P.B. attached notes. We inser= t them to render the comments intelligible. These are HPB=92s notes: [YOGA, or human hibernation, being only prolonged sleep, it is interesting to notice that there are instances on record of individuals sleeping for weeks, months, nay, even for years.]=20 We have ourself known a Russian lady=97Mme. Kashereninoff=97whose sister, t= hen an unmarried lady about twenty-seven, slept regularly for six weeks at a time. After that period she would awake, weak but not very exhausted, and ask for some milk, her habitual food. At the end of a fortnight, sometimes three weeks, she would begin to show unmistakable signs of somnolence, and at the end of a month fall into her trance again. Thus it lasted for seven years, she being considered by the populace a great saint. It was in 1841. What became of her after that we are unable to say. [Yoga has been differently defined by different authorities. Some have defined it as mental abstraction; some have defined it as silent prayer; some have defined it as the union of the inspired to the expired air; some have defined it as the union of mind to soul. But by Yoga, I understand the art of suspending the respiration and circulation. Yoga is chiefly divided into Raja Yoga and Hatha Yoga.] Here the. author falls into an unmistakable error. He confounds the R=E2ja with the Hatha Yogins, whereas the former have nothing to do with the physical training of the Hatha nor with any other of the innumerable sects who have now adopted the name and emblems of Yogins.=20 Wilson, in his Essays on the Religions of the Hindus, falls into the same confusion, and knows very little, if anything at all of the true R=E2ja Yogins, who have no more to do with Shiva than with Vishnu, or any other deity.=20 Alone, the most learned among the Shankara=92s Dandins of Northern India, especially those who are settled in R=E2jput=E2na, would be able=97if they = were willing=97to give some correct notions about the R=E2ja Yogins; for these m= en, who have adopted the philosophical tenets of Shankara=92s Ved=E2nta are, moreover, profoundly versed in the doctrines of the Tantras=97termed devili= sh by those who either do not understand them or reject their tenets with some preconceived object.=20 If in speaking of the Dandins we have used above the phrase beginning with the conjunction if," it is because we happen to know how carefully the secrets of the real Yogins=97nay even their existence itself=97are denied w= ithin this fraternity. It is comparatively but lately that the usual excuse adopted by them, in support of which they bring their strongest authorities= , who affirm that the Yoga state is unattainable in the present or Kali age, has been set afloat by them.=20 "From the unsteadiness of the senses, the prevalence of sin in the Kali, an= d the shortness of life, how can exaltation by Yoga be obtained?" enquires K=E2sh=EEkhanda. But this declaration can be refuted in two words and with = their own weapons. The duration of the present Kali Yuga is 432,000 years, of which 4,979 have already expired. It is at the very beginning of Kali Yuga that Krishna and Arjuna were born. It is since Vishnu=92s eighth incarnatio= n that the country had all its historical Yogins, for as to the prehistoric ones, or those claimed as such, we do not find ourselves entitled to force them upon public notice.=20 Are we then to understand that none of these numerous saints, philosophers and ascetics from Krishna down to the late Vishnu Brahmach=E2ri Bawa of Bom= bay had ever reached the "exaltation by Yoga"? To repeat this assertion is simply suicidal to their own interests. It is not that among the Hatha Yogins=97 men who at times had reached throu= gh a physical and well-organized system of training the highest powers as "wonder workers"=97 there has never been a man worthy of being considered a= s a true Yogin. What we say is simply this: the Raja Yogin trains but his menta= l and intellectual powers, leaving the physical alone and making but little o= f the exercise of phenomena simply of a physical character.=20 Hence it is the rarest thing in the world to find a real Yogin boasting of being one, or willing to exhibit such powers=97though he does acquire them = as well as the one practising Hatha Yoga but through another and far more intellectual system. Generally they deny these powers point-blank, for reasons but too well grounded.=20 The former need not even belong to any apparent order of ascetics, and are oftener known as private individuals than members of a religious fraternity= , nor need they necessarily be Hindus. Kabir, who was one of them, fulminates against most of the later sects of mendicants who occasionally become warriors when not simply brigands, and sketches them with a masterly hand: I never beheld such a Yogin, O brother! who, forgetting his doctrine, roves about in negligence. He follows professedly the faith of Mahadeva and calls himself an eminent teacher: the scene of his abstraction is the fair or the market. M=E2y=E2 is the mistress of the false saint. When did Dattatraya demolish a dwelling? When did Sukhadeva collect an armed host? When did N=E2rada mount a matchlock? When did Vy=E2sadeva blow a trumpet? etc. Therefore, whenever the author=97Dr. Paul=97speaks of Raja Yoga, the Hatha simply is to be understood. [Minute directions then follow for the practising of postures, the repetition of Mantras; and Y=E2my=E2sana and Pr=E2n=E2y=E2ma, or the inspir= ation and suspension of the breath.] All the above are, as we said before, the practices of Hatha Yoga, and conducive but to the production of physical phenomena affording very rarely flashes of real clairvoyance, unless it be a kind of feverish state of artificial ecstasy. If we publish them, it is merely for the great value we set upon this information as liable to afford a glimpse of truth to sceptics, by showing them that even in the case of the Hatha Yogins, the cause for the production of the phenomena as well as the results obtained can be all explained scientifically; and that therefore there is no need to either reject the phenomena =E0 priori and without investigation or to attribute them to any but natural, though occult powers, more or less laten= t in every man and woman. =97=97=97 [Dr. Paul next describes the eight varieties. Kumbhaka, which Yogins practise with a view to study the nature of the Soul. Khechar=EE Mudr=E2 is= the lengthening the tongue by splitting and then "milking" it until it is long enough to be turned back into the gullet, and, with its point, to press the epiglottis and so close the rima glottidis, which confines the inspired air within the system, the lungs and intestines being completely filled. By thi= s practice he becomes insensible to everything that is external. "Without it,= " says Dr. Paul, "he can never be absorbed into God."]=20 As the science and study of Yoga Philosophy pertains to Buddhist, Lamaic an= d other religions supposed to be atheistical, i.e., rejecting belief in a personal deity, and as a Ved=E2ntin would by no means use such an expressio= n, we must understand the term "absorption into God" in the sense of union wit= h the Universal Soul, or Parama-Purusha=97the primal or One Spirit. [Directions are then given for the practice of M=FBlabandha, a process by which youth is said to be restored to an old man.] This posture will hardly have the desired effect unless its philosophy is well understood and it is practised from youth. The appearance of old age, when the skin has wrinkled and the tissues have relaxed, can be restored bu= t temporarily, and with the help of M=E2y=E2. The M=FBlabandha is simply a pr= ocess to throw oneself into sleep (thus gaining the regular hours of sleep). [Ujjayi Kumbhaka. Assume the posture called Sukh=E2sana, render the two nostrils free by the first Kumbhaka, inspire through both nostrils, fill th= e stomach and throat with the inspired air, and then expire slowly through th= e left nostril. He that practises this Kumbhaka cures all diseases dependent upon deficient inhalation of oxygen.] And if anyone feels inclined to sneer at the novel remedy employed by the Yogins to cure "coryza," "worms" and other diseases=97which is only a certa= in mode of inhalation=97his attention is invited to the fact that these illiterate and superstitious ascetics seem to have only anticipated the discoveries of modern science.=20 OXYGEN AS CURATIVE ?=09 One of the latest is reported in the last number of the New York Medical Record (Sept., 1888), under the title of "A New and Curious Plan for Deadening Pain." The experiments were made by Dr. Bonwill, a well-known physician of Philadelphia, in 1872, and have been since successfully applie= d as an an=E6sthetic. We quote it from the Dubuque Daily Telegraph: In 1875 Dr. A. Hewson made a favourable report of his experience with it to the International Medical Congress, and at a recent meeting of the Philadelphia County Medical Society several papers were read on the subject= , and much discussion followed. In using the method, the operator merely requests the patient to breathe rapidly making about one hundred respirations per minute, ending in rapid puffing expirations. At the end of from two to five minutes an entire or partial absence of pain results for half a minute or more, and during that time teeth may be drawn or incisions made. The patient may be in any position, but that recommended is lying on the side, and it is generally best to throw a handkerchief over the face to prevent distraction of the patient=92s attention. When the rapid breathing = is first begun the patient may feel some exhilaration, following this comes a sensation of fulness in the head or dizziness. The face is at first flushed and afterwards pale or even bluish, the heart beats rather feebly and fast, but the sense of touch is not affected, nor is consciousness lost. The effect is produced more readily in females than in males, and in middle-age= d more easily than in the old; children can hardly be made to breathe properly. It is denied that there is any possible danger. Several minor operations, other than dental ones, have been successfully made by this method, and it is claimed that in dentistry, surgery and obstetrics it may supplant the common an=E6sthetics. Dr. Hewson=92s explanation is that rapid breathing diminishes the oxygenation of the blood, and that the resultant excess of carbonic acid temporarily poisons the nerve centres. Dr. Bonwill gives several explanations, one being the specific effect of carbonic acid, another the diversion of will-force produced by rapid voluntary muscular action, and, third, the damming up of the blood in the brain, due to the excessive amount of air passing into the lungs. The Record is not satisfied with the theories, but considers it well proved that pain may be deadened b= y the method, which it commends to the profession for the experimental determination of its precise value. And if it be well proved that about one hundred respirations per minute ending in rapid puffing expirations can successfully deaden pain, then why should not a varied mode of inhaling oxygen be productive of other and stil= l more extraordinary results, yet unknown to Science, but awaiting her future discoveries? SAMADHI [After speaking at some length concerning Sam=E2dhi and of the various branches of R=E2ja Yoga, Dr. Paul=92s remarks call forth the following note= .] This system, evolved by long ages of practice until it was brought to bear the above-described results, was not practised in India alone in the days o= f antiquity The greatest philosophers of all countries sought to acquire thes= e powers, and, certainly, behind the external ridiculous postures of the Yogins of to-day, lies concealed the profound wisdom of the archaic ages, one that included among other things a perfect knowledge of what are now termed physiology and psychology.=20 Ammonius Saccas, Porphyry, Proclus and others practised it in Egypt; and Greece and Rome did not hesitate at all in their time of philosophical glor= y to follow suit.=20 Pythagoras speaks of the celestial music of the spheres that one hears in hours of ecstasy, Zeno finds a wise man who, having conquered all passions, feels happiness and emotion but in the midst of torture.=20 Plato advocates the man of meditation and likens his powers to those of the divinity, and we see the Christian ascetics themselves through a mere life of contemplation and self-torture acquire powers of levitation or =E6throba= cy, which, though attributed to the miraculous intervention of a personal God, are nevertheless real and the result of physiological changes in the human body Says Patanjali: The Yogin will hear celestial sounds, the songs and conversations of celestial choirs. He will have the perception of their touch in their passage through the air, which, translated into more sober language, means that the ascetic is enabled to see with the spiritual eye in the Astral Light, hear with the spiritual ear subjective sounds inaudible to others, and live and feel, so to say, in the Unseen Universe. The Yogin is able to enter a dead or a living body by the path of the senses, and in this body to act as though it were his own. The "path of the senses"; our physical senses, supposed to originate in the astral body, the ethereal counterpart of man, or the j=EEv=E2tma, which die= s with the body; the senses are here meant in their spiritual sense=97volitio= n of the higher principle in man.=20 The true R=E2ja Yogin is a stoic; and Kapila, who deals but with the latter=97utterly rejecting the claim of the Hatha Yogins to converse during Sam=E2dhi with the Infinite Ishvara=97describes their state in the followin= g words: To a Yogin in whose mind all things are identified as spirit, what is infatuation? What is grief? He sees all things as one; he is destitute of affections; he neither rejoices in good nor is offended with evil. . . . A wise man sees so many false things in those which are called true, so much misery in what is called happiness, that he turns away with disgust. . . . Me who in the body has obtained liberation (from the tyranny of the senses) is of no caste, of no sect, of no order, attends to no duties, adheres to n= o shastras, to no formulas, to no works of merit; he is beyond the reach of speech; he remains at a distance from all secular concerns; he has renounce= d the love and the knowledge of all sensible objects; he flatters none, he honours none, he is not worshipped, he worships none; whether he practises and follows the customs of his fellow-men or not this is his character. And a selfish and a disgustingly misanthropical one this character would be were it that for which the True Adept was striving. But it must not be understood literally, and we shall have something more to say upon the subject in the following article, which will conclude Dr. Paul=92s essay on Yoga Philosophy. =97=97=97 [One of the practices followed by the Hatha Yogin is called Dhauti. This is the act of swallowing a bandage of linen moistened with water, measuring three inches in breadth and fifteen cubits in length. This is rather a difficult process. But very few fakirs can practise it.] And a happy thing it is that the process is so difficult, as we do not know of anything half so disgusting. No true R=E2ja Yogin will ever condescend t= o practise it. Besides, as every physician can easily tell, the process, if repeated, becomes a very dangerous one for the experimenter. There are othe= r "processes" still more hideous, and as useless for psychological purposes. HIBERNATION =96 LIFE SUSPENSION [Nor does his hair grow during the time he remains buried.]=20 In reference to the arrest of the growth of the hair, some adepts in the secret science claim to know more than this. They prove their ability to completely suspend the functions of life each night during the hours intended for sleep. Life then is, so to say, held in total abeyance.=20 The wear and tear of the inner as well as the outer organism being thus artificially arrested, and there being no possibility of waste, these men accumulate as much vital energy for use in their waking state as they would have lost in sleep, during which state, if natural, the process of energy and expense of force is still mechanically going on in the human body.=20 In the induced state described, as in that of a deep swoon, the brain no more dreams than if it were dead. One century, if passed, would appear no longer than one second, for all perception of time is lost for him who is subjected to it. Nor do the hairs or nails grow under such circumstances, though they do for a certain time in a body actually dead, which proves, if anything can, that the atoms and tissues of the physical body are held unde= r conditions quite different from those of the state we call death. For, to use a physiological paradox, life in a dead animal organism is even more intensely active than it ever is in a living one, which, as we see, does no= t hold good in the case under notice. Though the average sceptic may regard this statement as sheer nonsense those who have experienced this in themselves know it as an undoubted fact. Two certain fakirs from Nepaul once agreed to try the experiment. One of them, previous to attempting the hibernation, underwent all the ceremonies of preparation as described by Dr. Paul, and took all the necessary precautions; the other simply threw himself by a process known to himself and others into that temporary state of complete paralysis which imposes no limits of time, may last months as well as hours, and which is known in certain Tibetan lamaseries as . . . . The result was that while the hair, beard and nails of the former had grown at the end of six weeks, though feebly yet perceptibly, the cells of the latter had remained as closed and inactive as if he had been transformed for that lapse of time into a marble statue. Not having personally seen either of these men, or the experiment, we can vouch only in a general way for the possibility of the phenomenon, not for the details of this peculiar case, though we would as soon doubt ou= r existence as the truthfulness of those from whom we have the story. We only hope that among the sceptical and materialistic who may scoff, we may not find either people who nevertheless accept with a firm and pious conviction the story of the resurrection of the half-decayed Lazarus and other like miracles, or yet those who while ready to crush a Theosophist for his beliefs, would never dare to scoff at those of a Christian. [A Yogin acquires an increase of specific gravity by swallowing great draughts of the air, and compressing the same within the system.]=20 This is what, three years ago, in describing the phenomenon in Isis Unveiled, we called "interpolarization." (See vol. i. op. cit., pp. 23 and 24.) LOSS OF A SENSE REVERSED [On the powers resulting from Prapti, it is said . . .] As a deaf and dumb person learns to understand the exact meaning of what is said simply from the motion of the lips and face of the speaker, and withou= t understanding any language phonetically, other and extra senses can be developed in the soul as well as in the physical mind of a mute, a sixth an= d equally phenomenal sense is developed as the result of practice, which supplies for him the lack of the other two. Magnetic and mesmeric aura, or "fluid," can be generated and intensified in every man to an almost miraculous extent, unless he be by nature utterly passive. We have known of such a faculty (divining the thoughts of others) to exist in individuals who were far from being adepts or Yogins, and had never hear= d of the latter It can be easily developed by intense will, perseverance and practice, especially in persons who are born with natural analytical powers= , intuitive perception, and a certain aptness for observation and penetration= . These may, if they only preserve perfect purity, develop the faculty of divining people=92s thoughts to a degree which seems almost supernatural. S= ome very clever but quite uneducated detectives in London and Paris, develop it in themselves to an almost faultless perfection. It can also be helped by mathematical study and practice. If then such is found to be the case with simple individuals, why not in men who have devoted to it a whole life, helped on by a study of the accumulated experience of many a generation of mystics and under the tuition of real adepts? The dual soul is no fancy and may be one day explained in scientific language, when the psycho-physiological faculties of man shall be better studied, when the possibility of many a now-doubted phenomenon is discovered, and when truth will no longer be sacrificed to conceit, vanity and routine. Our physical senses have nothing to do with the spiritual or psychological faculties. The latter begin their action where the former stop, owing to that Chinese wall about the soul empire, called matter. =93TULKU=94 [Concerning the power called Vashitva, it is observed . . .] Perhaps the Hobilgans and the Shaberons of Tibet might have something to tell us if they chose. The great secret which enwraps the mystery of the reincarnations of their great Dalay-Lamas, their supreme Hobilgans, and others who as well as the former are supposed, a few days after their enlightened souls have laid aside their mortal clothing, to reincarnate themselves in young, and, previously to that, very weak bodies of children, has never yet been told.=20 These children, who are invariably on the point of death when designated to have their bodies become the tabernacles of the souls of deceased Buddhas, recover immediately after the ceremony, and, barring accident, live long years, exhibiting trait for trait the same peculiarities of temper, characteristics and predilections as the dead man=92s. Vashitva is also sai= d to be the power of taming living creatures and of making them obedient to one=92s own wishes and orders. [Pythagoras, who visited India, is said to have tamed by the influence of his will or word a furious bear, prevented an ox from eating beans, and stopped an eagle in its flight.] These are mesmeric feats and it is only by (in)exact scientists that mesmerism is denied in our days. It is largely treated of in Isis, and the power of Pythagoras is explained in vol. i. p. 283, et seq. DIVINE POWER [Ishatwa, or divine power. When the passions are restrained from their desires, the mind becomes tranquil and the soul is awakened.] In which case it means that the soul, being liberated from the yoke of the body through certain practices, discipline and purity of life, during the lifetime of the latter, acquires powers identical with its primitive element, the universal soul. It has overpowered its material custodian; the terrestrial gross appetites and passions of the latter, from being its despotic masters, have become its slaves, hence the soul has become free henceforth to exercise its transcendental powers, untrammelled by any fetters. [With regard to restoring the dead to life.] Life once extinct can never be recalled, but another life and another soul can sometimes reanimate the abandoned frame, if we may believe learned men who were never known to utter an untruth. Wherever the word "soul" has occurred in the course of the above comments, the reader must bear in mind that we do not use it in the sense of an immortal principle in man, but in that of the group of personal qualities which are but a congeries of material particles whose term of survival beyond the physical, or material, personality is for a longer or shorter period, proportionately with the grossness or refinement of the individual. Various correspondents have asked whether the Siddhis of Yoga can only be acquired by the rude training of Hatha Yoga; and The Journal of Science (London) assuming that they cannot, launched out in the violent expressions which were recently quoted in these pages. But the fact is that there is another, an unobjectionable and rational process, the particulars of which cannot be given to the idle enquirer, and which must not even be touched upon at the latter end of a commentary like the present one. The subject ma= y be reverted to at a more favourable time. =20 [Vol. II. Nos. 2, 4 and 7, November, 1880, and January and April, 1881.] --------------------------------------- Best wishes, Dallas =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: mlr_blr]=20 Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 11:07 PM To:=20 Subject: Re: LORD'S PRAYER OM Now, a word of warning is required to be raised. There is a world of=20 difference between lower yoga and the Raja Yoga.=20 The later has nothing to do=20 with 'Pranayama,' and it is precisely the lower yoga (more appropriately b= e called body-yoga -- [Hatha-Yoga] ) which is the most popular in India at the present time,=20 which is being exported to the West by Indian "Gurus" by the hundreds. =20 Theosophists will do well to remember the words of warning sounded by Mr.=20 Judge to the Western students against falling into the trappings of=20 body-yoga, and what the Masters say of it, and HPB's words of caution=20 against it. The above may kick off a controversy but there is no need to get into=20 arguments about it. It is too well known to serious students what the=20 Masters say of body-yoga, which was strongly discountenanced by=20 Shankaracharya, and Theosophy shows to what end it leads. Ramprakash. From leonmaurer@aol.com Mon Jan 09 14:20:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81510 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2006 22:20:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2006 22:20:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m17.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.207) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 22:20:47 -0000 Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.86.362b7763 (25305); Mon, 9 Jan 2006 17:20:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <86.362b7763.30f43ba8@aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 17:20:24 EST MIME-Version: 1.0 To: undisclosed-recipients:; X-Mailer: Thunderbird - Mac OS X sub 310 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.138.207 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: leonmaurer@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Science vs. Theosophy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972; y=ujOqJgEPuslcOinXR18ZW4g3rSnEUapA99wtTfJKmehr0l5W3og X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 11/14/05 4:59:23 PM, masbond@libero.it writes: I think it may be useful=A0for you to read=A0a paper of=A0 mine entitled: "= Quantum=20 Electrodynamics and Unified synaptic=A0 channel in the identification of=20 consciousness" published online=A0by Neuroquantology" journal ,6-7,2005( http://www.neuroquantology.com/). =A0 With best regards and compliments. Max Bond=EC Max, I appreciated reading your paper, found it very comprehensive and=20 enlightening, and believe there could be a connection between some of its p= ostulates=20 and my own theory of universal origin, consciousness and matter. However, I'm not convinced that consciousness, per se, with reference to=20 awareness, will, qualia, etc.) has anything to do directly with quantum mec= hanics,=20 or that the brain is more than a complex assemblage of neuronal based=20 synapses acting in concert as detector/transformer/transducer between senso= ry images=20 encoded in the brain's EM field and their detection and experience at the=20 non-local zero-point that is the fundamental nature of the primal space out= of=20 which both subjective consciousness and all objective things originate, bot= h=20 physical and transcendental... Although, I do think that the vast area of t= he=20 enfolded cerebral cortex has some critical function in the distribution and= =20 assemblage of sensory images in the brain's EM field. In my view, this primal space, prior to its manifestation into our cosmos, = is=20 composed of zero points of consciousness (awareness-will) that are spinning= =20 on an infinite number of axes at infinite velocity or infinite angular=20 momentum. From this duality of both emptiness and fullness, both informat= ive=20 consciousness and formational substance originate... The zero-point remaini= ng the=20 subjective nature, and the spin force or "spinergy" becoming the objective = nature=20 of everything having form, energy or mass of one degree of substantiality o= r=20 another. Unfortunately, reductive science continues to be based on the equally=20 unproved belief that all phenomena in the universe must be an emergent func= tion of=20 the properties of matter.=20=20=20 Because all physics is based on that presumption, it ignores the fact that= =20 the internal perceptive imagery or the contents of consciousness which=20 replicates the real world as holographic virtual images in the mind, is com= posed of=20 encoded information, most likely in the form of holographic frequency=20 interference patterns, that are solely dependent on the wave nature of matt= er. Thus,=20 e.g., the contents of visual consciousness, which is detected and transform= ed as=20 virtual analogs of the vibrational imagery received by the retinas and=20 experienced as qualia at a non local zero-point in the center of our head (= or for=20 the other senses, within the limits of our body) is the exact replica of th= e=20 outer world -- that only appears within our individual field of consciousne= ss, to=20 be out there or in here. An illusion of actual physical reality, to say t= he=20 least. Accordingly, the only way I see it that this information can be transformed= =20 from the electrical field of the Brain to any point of non localized=20 consciousness (awareness, will, memory, mind, etc.) -- is through coadunate= but not=20 consubstantial fields of successively higher orders of frequency-energy. = In my=20 view, these are the transcendent fields of contiguous and coadunate but not= =20 consubstantial, multidimensional hyperspace fields postulated by string the= ory,=20 that exists between the zero-point and the quantum particle.=20 Therefore, I believe that any quantum theory of consciousness that doesn't= =20 include those spatial conditions, and allocate the qualia of consciousness = to=20 the zero-point itself, is simply barking up a tree... Regardless of its acc= uracy=20 in predicting the quantitative properties of solid and electrical field sta= te=20 reality the leads to the high technology of this age. In this sense, I must conclude that consciousness, per se, as awareness,=20 will, memory, mind, etc., cannot be an epiphenomena of the brain or its neu= ral=20 complexity. Although the degree of such conscious experience, i.e., the=20 difference between plant, animal and human consciousness could be an emerge= nt factor of=20 such complexity. Best wishes, Leon Maurer >=20 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: leonmaurer@aol.com > To: undisclosed-recipients: > Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 2:25 AM > Subject: [Mind and Brain] Re: Science vs. Theosophy >=20 > Mark, >=20 > Regarding the last question in your below speculation on the potential=20 > consciousness of an AI computer system; Namely, "Are we just designing ou= r own=20 > mind to reach beyond it's normal allotted boundaries to modify the > other programs in the universe?"... Three questions come to mind. >=20 > What are the "normal allotted boundaries of the human mind"?=A0 >=20 > What determines it?=A0 >=20 > What does the unlimited (infinite?) informational potential of the univer= sal=20 > mind field, of which the human mind is identical to (as above, so below),= =20 > and the separateness of pure consciousness (awareness-will at the ubiquit= ous=20 > zero-point) as a fundamental nature of the universe -- of which the human= =20 > consciousness is also identical with -- have to do with a finite collecti= on of=20 > electrical synapses in a computer neural network composed of a limited nu= mber of=20 > silicon parts and programmed by a less than perfect computer scientist? >=20 > I learned long ago -- and since, proved it subjectively (to my own=20 > satisfaction) by intense concentration on the scientific correlation's us= ing deductive=20 > logic, starting from the absolute zero point and working outward=20 > simultaneously with inductive logic starting from the overall physical sp= ace-time=20 > continuum and working inward -- that the human mind-memory, etc., is comp= osed of a=20 > series of inductively resonant, interconnected fields of coadunate but no= t=20 > consubstantial phases of electrical energy. And that this composite mind = we=20 > experience is a direct reflection of the universal mind field -- which is= =20 > infinite in its scope and its potentialities...=A0 >=20 > That's because the information it contains, of a holographic virtual imag= e=20 > nature, is a function of the electromagnetic wave interference patterns (= of=20 > infinite degrees of frequency energy vibrations) modulated on its infinit= e=20 > circumference -- extending from the lowest phase of the physical-astral f= ields to=20 > the highest phase of the spiritual fields.=A0 >=20 > Therefore, being of infinite extension and, thus, infinitely divisible, i= t=20 > has the potential of storing infinite information -- encoded analogously = in=20 > infinite degrees of complexities of interrelationships.=A0 Thus, covering= every=20 > possible channel of sensory detection, perception and response by all for= ms of=20 > living organisms or sentient beings. >=20 > On the other hand, consciousness, which is dependently and simultaneously= =20 > arising along with these coadunate but not consubstantial fields, is the= =20 > fundamental nature of the zero-point of Absolute space itself -- which is= located=20 > everywhere in-between the so called "quantum wave-particles" of the physi= cal,=20 > astral, mental and spiritual fields of consciousness -- and at both the=20 > centers and surface junctures (cross points) between all such fractally i= nvolved=20 > hyperspace fields, from the spiritual to the physical.=A0 This non locali= ty of=20 > consciousness, allows such information stored in the human mind fields to= be=20 > reconstructed, reflected, and perceived at the zero-point of individual h= uman=20 > consciousness by intentionally (willfully) projecting a single ray of=20 > coherent energy focussed through an appropriate channel (formed with cont= inued=20 > practice) in the malleable neural network of the brain.=A0 Thus, "the bou= ndaries of=20 > the mind" are determined by the continued practice of directed thought th= at=20 > continually refines the chnnels and, thus, the boundaries of the human br= ain,=20 > and determines its future evolution.=A0 >=20 > But, none of that would be possible without the equally logical processes= of=20 > both reincarnation and karma.=A0 Therefore, I doubt that any computer sys= tem,=20 > no matter how complex, can ever replicate those conditions and attain any= =20 > degree of perceptive consciousness or awareness of qualia. >=20 > While I agree that computer "consciousness" is a futile pipe dream of the= =20 > believers in hard AI, I don't doubt that the computer systems and their=20 > programmed memory will eventually reach such a state of complexity, that = it would be=20 > hard to separate an intelligent computer from an ordinary human being (i.= e.,=20 > the Turing test). Such an intelligent computer is similar to IBM's Deep B= lue=20 > chess program. However, all it can do, as a result of its prodigious memo= ry,=20 > processing speed, and relational programming, is appear to replicate the= =20 > almost superhuman qualities of a human chess Master. In any event, I'm su= re all=20 > AI buffs would agree that Big Blue cannot think for itself. >=20 > Therefore, I doubt that such an apparently intelligent (due to vast=20 > alternative connections and paths to an extremely large relational data b= ase of=20 > practical information) can ever replicate the coadunate but not consubsta= ntial=20 > hyperspace fields within fields within fields that would be necessary to= =20 > interconnect holographically with the universal consciousness inherent in= the=20 > zero-point of Absolute space. >=20 > Best wishes, >=20 > Lenny >=20 > In a message dated 11/11/05 12:54:08 AM, waking.adept@gmail.com writes: >=20 >=20 >=20 > Regarding the first quote you stated; I had sent out an e-mail > relating the systems of the brain to computer systems, and in a sense, > calling occultists the "hackers" of the universe. Of course, it sounds > silly, but it is interesting to note that the brain is like any other > dynamic or self-evolving system -- the whole is greater than the sum > of it's parts, and changing any one of the parts can drastically > change the whole. >=20 > Chaos theory 101: > Chaos theory is the study of unpredictable and complex dynamic systems > that are highly sensitive to small changes in external conditions. > (source: Dictionary.com) >=20 > Below is my original post relating to this matter: >=20 > --- >=20 > Whenever I study a particular art, it improves my awareness in other, > seemingly unrelated aspects. This is one such occasion where my > interest in computer science lets me deeper understand the workings of > a human brain, and possibly more. >=20 > A colleague challenged me on something I mentioned a while back. It > was about using artificial intelligence systems that simulated the > neurons in the brain. He believed that the AI system, if it emulated > the human mind perfectly (meaning simulating all activity down to the > individual chemicals that are diffused in the neurons) it would > undoubtedly find a way to [a] become self-aware, and [b] find a way to > breach its original program and expand upon itself. It's a classic > case of AI Paranoia, which I never believed was possible. >=20 > So I started on designing a program to in fact, simulate the neurons > in the brain. I drew a rough plan, showing the feedback systems of the > neurons. >=20 > A feedback system occurs when 2 parts of a system pass data back and > forth, modifying it slightly in between passes. It can be compared to > when you tell someone a story, and they tell you it back using their > own wording. After a while, the story will be completely different by > just changing minor details each time it is told. This is similar to > how memories are stored in the brain. >=20 > However, not just the neurons themselves communicate messages. Systems > of neurons form and create their own groups, and those groups > communicate with each other. This adds another dimension to the > equation, because it increases the number of feedback systems almost > exponentially. This was to be expected, though, and does not really > compromise the integrity of the program. >=20 > I drew diagrams, and explained to him over and over that the systems > were still contained within the program and could not leave their > environment. There is no way the system could spill out. >=20 > Then it hit me. Not only did the "neurons" in the program form > systems, but the data itself did. This adds even more dimensions that > I wasn't aware of in the beginning. So what does this mean? >=20 > Nothing. The data was contained within the program's allotted memory. > Still no way of it leaving under normal circumstances. >=20 > But there was the abnormal circumstance--the ever increasing data from > the feedback systems would begin to fill up a lot of memory. If it > were to cause an overflow, there would be unpredictable results (most > likely crashing the program or altering other areas of memory that are > used by other programs). However, if [the program] were to recognize > some kind of > anomaly, he may try to exploit it. Repeated attempts would eventually > bring constant, predictable results, allowing him to control--at least > in part--his environment. >=20 > How is this any different from occult practice? Most of us train for > years in order to achieve perfected results, using all different > techniques until it works just right. Are we just designing our own > mind to reach beyond it's normal allotted boundaries to modify the > other programs in the universe? >=20 >=20 > -Mark H. >=20 > On 11/11/05, leonmaurer@aol.com wrote: > > As cutting edge science sees it... They are getting closer and closer..= .=20 > See > > below: > > (extracted from a post to the Journal of Consciousness Study online e-m= ail > > forum) > > > > Unfortunately, not many on that list are yet inclined to risk their pee= r > > reviewable professional status to follow these radical (to them)=20 > precepts.=A0=A0 Could > > established science give up materialism entirely?=A0=A0 They would have= to=20 > learn > > a whole new processs of transcendental deductive thinking and give up > > measuring the parts to induce the whole.=A0 How unthinkable... > > > > Lenny > > > > ********************************* > > > > "The Universe is a system. Knowledge of how the brain works requires > > knowledge of how a system works. The essential property of a system in = the > > most general sense is a working together of the relational elements.=20 > Knowledge > > of how individual elements work does not tell us how the elements work= =20 > together. > > How the elements work together is a different ontology involving=20 > interactions > > rather than entities. The notion that chance and competition rule=20 > evolution > > is a political diversion. There are no instances of competition to be=20 > found > > in the brain. By working together new forms are created. These new form= s=20 > are > > emergent properties of the relationships between the constitutive=20 > elements. > > They are not entities per se, rather they are what entities are doing t= o=20 > each other. > > Consciousness is not a thing which can be found, consciousness is an=20 > emergent > > property not unlike the meaning found in these marks before you." > > > > DAVID BOHM > > ____________________________________ > > >=20 >=20 >=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Jan 09 15:16:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62618 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2006 23:16:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2006 23:16:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.65) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2006 23:16:36 -0000 Received: from [216.175.78.28] (helo=DALLAS) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Ew6Fb-00017w-OR; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 18:16:31 -0500 To: Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 15:16:18 -0800 Message-ID: <009701c61572$b5a45a60$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79ab7dd4b1bae27563764420adc6b207b0350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.65 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: Theos-World problems with the Narada Lodge (reply to Doss) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=Pb3fmNK17zdzRDiCMNJ2uPFYGOJHsl9YJiQxBv0z1l8jcw X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/9/2006 3:15 PM Dear Doss: May I have your e-mail address new ? Dallas =================================== -----Original Message----- From: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of M K Ramadoss Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 11:20 AM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World problems with the Narada Lodge (reply to Doss) From leonmaurer@aol.com Mon Jan 09 16:00:27 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19156 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 00:00:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 00:00:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d03.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.35) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 00:00:26 -0000 Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id j.22b.491a670 (25305); Mon, 9 Jan 2006 18:59:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <22b.491a670.30f452e5@aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 18:59:33 EST MIME-Version: 1.0 To: undisclosed-recipients:; X-Mailer: Thunderbird - Mac OS X sub 310 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.157.35 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: leonmaurer@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Re: Science vs. Theosophy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972; y=eOeTrc21LJ5u62v1Tu1oJj_TfY1zSFnhhglG7YfIRJwett_xiXU X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just an added observation I once posted on the Journal of Consciousness Study online forum -- in a similar mode of counter argument refuting a scientist claiming the "brain thinks. My argument was never logically, scientifically or even philosophically refuted. (Although one reputed quantum physicist said I was "barking up a tree." The Quantum-Mind forum, on the other hand, simply refused to post it. :-) ----------------- "Contrary to the unfounded, hence, "religious" belief of most reductive scientists of a materialist bent; The Brain does NOT "think," "feel," "smell," "taste," "hear," "recall," "remember," or "imagine"... Since, those are the functions of the zero-points of consciousness (awareness-will) that links directly to the mind and memory -- which exists as separate fields of hyperspace energies enfolded within the apparently empty space between the "particles," and outside of all metric time and space -- yet interconnected inductively with the electromagnetic fields of the brain and all other cellular structures of the body through their individual hyperspace fields. This interconnection allows us to place our bodies at any desired location within the outer world field -- enabling a baseball to be caught on the fly, and an artist to place the point of the brush on the exact point on the canvas corresponding to the model and the painting pictured in the mind. All such fields are funda-mentally electrical in nature, and obey all its laws of harmony, cycles, symmetry and conservation of both matter and energy -- although their vectorial constants are different in value depending on their frequency energy phase order. It's these fields that carry all the information or contents of consciousness -- as encoded holographic interference patterns (modulated as waves on the surfaces or "membranes" of the fields) -- that are capable of being transformed analogously from one hyperspace field level to another by inductive resonance processes, e.g., strike a "string" or "note" in one field, and the vibration resonates at the same equivalent pitch or note in adjacent higher ordered frequency-energy spectrum phase fields, as they cascade down to the zero-point of their origination. Thus, no experiential information, in the form of wave vibrational patterns of energy, can ever be lost. The images of consciousness on the surface of the highest frequency-energy phase order field is capable of being reconstructed and detected reflectively, by a single coherent ray of corresponding frequency energy projected from any non local zero-point of consciousness. The brain is simply a transducer, transponder, and controller functioning as the linkage between the various channels of sensory input and the ubiquitous zero-points of consciousness throughout the overall field of the human organism." Best wishes, Lenny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From waking.adept@... Mon Jan 09 23:52:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: waking.adept@... X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 644 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 07:52:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 07:52:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wproxy.gmail.com) (64.233.184.196) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 07:52:24 -0000 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i2so107786wra for ; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 23:51:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.105.9 with SMTP id h9mr2909674qbm; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 23:51:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.123.10 with HTTP; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 23:51:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 02:51:19 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20060109152851.39224.qmail@...> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline References: <20060109152851.39224.qmail@...> X-Originating-IP: 64.233.184.196 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Mark Hamilton Jr." Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Appearance of the Masters X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219719026 V2h5IGhhcyB0aGVyZSBiZWVuIHN1Y2ggZGlzaGFybW9ueSBhcm91bmQgdGhlIG5ldyB5ZWFy PyBTdHJpa2VzIG1lIGFzCmtpbmQgb2Ygb2RkLgoKLU1hcmsgSC4KCgpPbiAxLzkvMDYsIEJo aWtzaHVuaSBBcml5YSA8YXJoYXRfYnVkZGhpc21AeWFob28uY29tPiB3cm90ZToKPiBJIGFt IGhlcmUsIFBlZHJvLgo+Cj4gcHJtb2xpdmVpcmEgPHBybW9saXZlaXJhQHlhaG9vLmNvbT4g d3JvdGU6ICAtLS0gSW4gdGhlb3MtdGFsa0B5YWhvb2dyb3Vwcy5jb20sICJNYXJrIEhhbWls dG9uIEpyLiIKPiB3cm90ZToKPgo+Cj4gPiBBbnkgbGF0ZSBicmVha2luZyBldmlkZW5jZSB0 aGF0IHRoZSBNYXN0ZXJzIGhhdmUgbWFkZSBtb3JlCj4gYXBwZWFyYW5jZXMKPiA+IGxhdGVs eT8gVGhlcmUncyBiZWVuIGEgbG90IG9mIG5vdGljZWFibGUgZGlzY29yZCByZWNlbnRseS4K Pgo+Cj4gVGhlcmUgc2VlbSB0byBoYXZlIGJlZW4gYSBudW1iZXIgb2YgKmFwcGVhcmFuY2Vz KiwgYnV0IG5vdCBuZWNlc3NhcmlseQo+IG9mIHRoZSBNYXN0ZXJzLiBBZnRlciBhbGwsIGFu IGFwcGVhcmFuY2UgaXMgd2hhdCBjb21lcyBpbiBzaWdodCwgd2hpY2gKPiBpcyBub3QgYWx3 YXlzIGEgcmVhbGl0eS4KPgo+Cj4gcGVkcm8KPgo+Cj4KPgo+Cj4KPiBZYWhvbyEgR3JvdXBz IExpbmtzCj4KPgo+Cj4KPgo+Cj4KPgo+Cj4KPiAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0KPiBZYWhvbyEgUGhvdG9zIJYgU2hvd2Nhc2UgaG9saWRheSBwaWN0dXJlcyBp biBoYXJkY292ZXIKPiAgUGhvdG8gQm9va3MuIFlvdSBkZXNpZ24gaXQgYW5kIHdlJ2xsIGJp bmQgaXQhCj4KPiBbTm9uLXRleHQgcG9ydGlvbnMgb2YgdGhpcyBtZXNzYWdlIGhhdmUgYmVl biByZW1vdmVkXQo+Cj4KPgo+Cj4KPgo+IFlhaG9vISBHcm91cHMgTGlua3MKPgo+Cj4KPgo+ Cj4KPgo+CgoKLS0KTWFyayBIYW1pbHRvbiBKci4Kd2FraW5nLmFkZXB0QGdtYWlsLmNvbQo= From ringding@online.de Mon Jan 09 23:58:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 92841 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 07:58:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 07:58:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.188) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 07:58:20 -0000 Received: from [84.191.191.188] (helo=captain70e702a) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu9) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0ML2xA-1EwEOD29Oj-00010r; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:57:58 +0100 Message-ID: <012301c615bb$c5ae7410$152ca8c0@captain70e702a> To: References: Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:59:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:d066391b47e67c594ae06bf3d758d7eb X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.188 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World The Temple of the Presence....In answer to the Ascended Masters El Morya and... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=224426186; y=U2Q9EGgfI3UGtwZrEFezOawPUGDIiGHJK6okC6aC8s1sQTrwHOHnMiP8uw X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer Daniel, I can confirm that as I was present for myself at the said Cosmic Council meeting last autumn. We met on Jupiter, but had a break on Venus for lunch at the Interstars 7 canteen. It was funny - and, as you can imagine - a little bit surprising - to meet the seven Kumaras there, too. The seven dwarfs were with them. All ordered a "Leadbeater Mac" and a "Besant shake". If you add Bailey fries, you'll have a "Holy Lord Premium Menu" with three Karma points as bonus. (You know, with 33 Karma points you will be initiated into the next degree). The Council meeting was top secret, but now as the results are published, I am free to speak about it. Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: "danielhcaldwell" To: Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:18 PM Subject: Theos-World The Temple of the Presence....In answer to the Ascended Masters El Morya and... "The New Dispensation A Dawning New Day from the Great Central Sun! "In answer to the Ascended Masters El Morya and Saint Germain, the Cosmic Councils have released the Dispensation for The Temple of The Presence. At the present time, the Ascended Masters have anointed Monroe and Carolyn Shearer as Their Messengers to the outside world. As with their predecessors in this spiritual Office, Monroe and Carolyn have been preparing for this mission for several embodiments. After training separately in this lifetime, they were brought together in 1993 and received full Sponsorship from the Great White Brotherhood for their public service through The Temple of The Presence in 1995. The first public address (Dictation) from an Ascended Master was from Beloved Morya on May 8, 1995. The first Quarterly Conference was "The Daystar Festival" in July of 1996 in which each of the Seven Holy Kumaras spoke (six for the first time in a public release)." "Beloved Morya and Saint Germain are the principal Sponsors for The Temple of The Presence, together with the Lord Maha Chohan, Lord Maitreya, Gautama Buddha, and the Seven Holy Kumaras. The Messengers, Monroe and Carolyn Shearer, deliver Discourses and Dictations directly from the Masters who are Themselves present in Their Ascended Master Bodies. The Release of Light that takes place on these occasions surpasses all previous experience of those in attendance. Those who have been privileged to take part in the implementation of this new Dispensation have been blessed beyond measure by the Opportunity to work with the Great Ones and receive Their very Personal Instruction." Quoted from: http://www.templeofthepresence.org/temple.htm Yahoo! Groups Links theos-talk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com From prmoliveira@yahoo.com Tue Jan 10 02:09:12 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: prmoliveira@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88405 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 10:09:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 10:09:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.43) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 10:09:11 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n9.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 10:09:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 10:09:06 -0000 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:09:06 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20060109152851.39224.qmail@web54706.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.43 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 59.167.7.76 From: "prmoliveira" Subject: Theos-World Re: Appearance of the Masters X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39079617; y=tC6P3FgzsuFjeVDe5EjMOARsrQOrxbJXD-yNZU9ME_kitFdKI-E X-Yahoo-Profile: prmoliveira --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Bhikshuni Ariya=20 wrote: > I am here, Pedro.=20 Hello. It is now almost ten years since I last saw you in India. Hope=20 you are well. I was in Colombo in December and had the great privilege=20 of meeting a Mahathero (Head Monk), 96 years old, who is the head of=20 the Pirivena (temple) founded by Ven. Sumangala, the one who welcomed=20 Olcott in Galle, in 1880. I was told I could ask him some questions,=20 which I did. One of them was 'why did the Buddha remain silent during=20 the questions asked by Vachagotta (regarding the existence or non=20 existence of a permanent self in man). The Mahathero smiled and said,=20 through an interpreter: "If HE was silent, who am I to say anything!"=20 =20 Best wishes, pedro=20 From sven2004@telia.com Tue Jan 10 03:05:18 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: Sven2004@telia.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23868 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 11:05:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 11:05:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pne-smtpout1-sn2.hy.skanova.net) (81.228.8.83) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 11:05:17 -0000 Received: from SVEINN.telia.com (212.181.177.148) by pne-smtpout1-sn2.hy.skanova.net (7.2.069.1) id 43C290FB00038E06 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:05:06 +0100 Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.1.20060110111716.01d462c0@telia.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:04:40 +0100 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 81.228.8.83 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: S F Subject: Spam basket - (att. to Dallas) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=183548685; y=4uts-ydO8PdMknVr-oyRaLd85N6VdoqZTxRoU86fSSeZ X-Yahoo-Profile: ari343 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My dear friend Dallas - Are you conscious of that many of your letters end in a Spam basket. What can you do? Sveinn Freyr _________________________________________ From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 13:57:36 -0800 Subject: spam: Theos-World Re: LORD'S PRAYER OM Reply-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-tis-spam: score=5.35100 (139704,10666 0,121820,115161,139011,139006,105630,18 6059,114990,115793,106640,105400,186063 ,115797,115120,115712,186108,105770,121 108,105700,115690,114844,119645,186025, 119025,115784,115578,115110,113243,1200 30,115298,113228,113289,120324,119898,1 13211,114777,120203,150593,140002,10008 ,10017) 1/9/2006 1:53 PM Dear Friends: H P B writes on this subject: THE YOGA PHILOSOPHY [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Jan 10 04:15:27 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56219 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 12:15:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 12:15:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.65) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 12:15:26 -0000 Received: from [216.175.78.28] (helo=DALLAS) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EwIPF-00077H-7a; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:15:17 -0500 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 04:14:57 -0800 Message-ID: <00a101c615df$7e94a940$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79120801fb944b91a59e6f3027b0bdb0ab350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.65 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: OCCULTISM AND CONTENTION X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=AHJlMPk7V8odKSvEjk6nGxCFGRDX-0MAGvo5M7At2ZFD-w X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/10/2006 3:44 AM Dear Friends: Occasionally one discovers objections and arguments that seem futile =96 ma= ny years ago an early student of THEOSOPHY wrote: OCCULTISM AND CONTENTION The brief and concise outline of the philosophy of occultism given in the Introduction to the SECRET DOCTRINE is therefore very significant, and the student who desires to apprehend that which follows in these two large volumes ought to study this outline very carefully.=20 No subsequent proposition, no principle in the life of man, can be correctl= y understood apart from it.=20 The subject-matter following is necessarily fragmentary, but the outline is both inclusive and philosophical, and if one reasons logically and follows the plainest analogies he can never go far astray.=20 The relation of mind to brain, of thought to consciousness, of life to matter, and of man to Nature and to Deity, is there clearly defined; not, indeed, in all its details, but in a philosophical modulus, to be worked ou= t in reason and in life.=20 The all-pervading Life, the cyclic or periodical movements, the periods of action and of repose, and the intimate relations and inter-dependences of all things apply to Cosmos, and equally to every atom in its vast embrace. Students sometimes complain that they cannot understand, that the subject i= s so vast, and so deep and intricate, and not made clear. lIt is because they do not realize what they have undertaken.=20 Occultism can neither be taught nor learned in "a few easy lessons." The "object lessons" sometimes given by H.P.B., almost always misunderstood and misapplied, though often explained at the time, served as often to excite vulgar curiosity and personal abuse as to arrest attention and study.=20 If, before the advent of the T.S. in the face of the creeds of Christendom, the materialism of science, the indifferences and supercilious scorn of Agnosticism, and the babel of spiritualism, it had been proposed to begin a= t the foundations and reconstruct our entire knowledge of Nature and of man; to show the unity and the foundations of the worlds religions; to eliminate from science all its "missing links"; to make Agnosticism gnostic; and to place the science of psychology and the nature and laws of mind and soul over against "Mediumship"; it would have been held as an herculean task, an= d declared impossible of accomplishment.=20 Now that the thing has virtually been accomplished and this body of knowledge presented to the world, people think it strange that they cannot compass it all, as the poet Burns is said to have written some of his shorter poems, "while standing on one leg!" Again, people complain at the unfamiliar terms and the strange words imported from foreign languages. Yet if one were to undertake the study of physics, chemistry, music, or medicine, quite as great obstacles have to be overcome. Is it a strange thing, then, that the science that includes all these, and undertakes to give a synthesis of the whole realm of Nature and of life, should have its own nomenclature? CONTENTION Beyond all these necessary and natural obstacles, there is another, viz., that contentious spirit that disputes and opposes every point before it is fairly stated or understood.=20 Suppose one ignorant of mathematics were to proceed in the same manner and say, "I don't like that proposition," "I don't see why they turn a six upside down to make a nine," "Why don't two and two make five?", and so on, how long would it take such a one to learn mathematics?=20 In the study of the Secret Doctrine it is not a matter of likes or dislikes= , of belief or unbelief, but solely a matter of intelligence and understanding. He who acknowledges his ignorance and yet is unwilling to la= y aside his likes and dislikes, and even his creeds and dogmas, for the time, in order to see what is presented in its own light and purely on its merits= , has neither need nor use for the Secret Doctrine.=20 Even where a greater number of propositions are accepted or "believed" and = a few are rejected, the synthetic whole is entirely lost sight of.=20 But, says some one, this is a plea for blind credulity, and an attempt to bind the mind and the conscience of man to a blind acceptance of these doctrines. No one but the ignorant or the dishonest can make such an assertion in the face of the facts.=20 Listen to the following from p. xix, Introduction to the Secret Doctrine.=20 "It is above everything important to keep in mind that no theosophical book acquires the least additional value from pretended authority." S D I xi= x If that be advocating blind credulity, let the enemies of the T.S. make the most of it. If any authority pertains to the Secret Doctrine, it must be sought inside, not outside. It must rest on its comprehensiveness, its completeness, its continuity and reasonableness; in other words, on its philosophical synthesis, a thing missed alike by the superficial and the contentious, by the indolent, the superstitious, and the dogmatic. =93O wise man: you have asked rightly. Now listen carefully. The illusive fancies arising from error are not conclusive. The great and peaceful ones live regenerating the world like the coming of spring, and after having themselves crossed the ocean of embodied existence= , help those who try to do the same thing, without personal motives.=94 --Crest Jewel of Wisdom [Shankaracharya] [From: SYNTHESIS OF OCCULT SCIENCE -- W Q J Art I p. 23 ] [From: INTRODUCTION TO THE SECRET DOCTRINE=20=20 [xvii] Old truisms are often the wisest. The human mind can hardly remain entirely free from bias, and decisive opinions are often formed before a thorough examination of a subject from all its aspects has been made. =85 =85 Sinnett=92s work, had ceased to be esoteric from the moment they were m= ade public; nor did it contain the religion of Buddha, but simply a few tenets from a hitherto hidden teaching which are now supplemented by many more, enlarged and explained in the present volumes. But even the latter, though giving out many fundamental tenets from the SECRET DOCTRINE of the East, raise but a small corner of the dark veil.=20 For no one, not even the greatest living adept, would be permitted to, or could=97even if he would=97give out promiscuously, to a mocking, unbelievin= g world, that which has been so effectually concealed from it for long =E6ons and ages. =85 [xviii] The =93Wisdom Religion=94 is the inheritance of all the nations, the world over, =85 the present writer knew all that which is =93divulged= =94 in =93Esoteric Buddhism=94=97 and much more =97 many years before it became he= r duty (in 1880) to impart a small portion of the Secret Doctrine to two European gentlemen, one of whom was the author of =93Esoteric Buddhism=94; and surel= y the present writer has the undoubted, though to her, rather equivocal, privileg= e of being a European, by birth and education.=20 Moreover, a considerable part of the philosophy expounded by Mr. Sinnett wa= s taught in America, even before Isis Unveiled was published, to two European= s and to my colleague, Colonel H. S. Olcott. Of the three teachers the latter gentleman has had, the first was a Hungarian Initiate, the second an Egyptian, the third a Hindu.=20 As permitted, Colonel Olcott has given out some of this teaching in various ways; if the other two have not, it has been simply because they were not allowed: their time for public work having not yet come. =85It is above everything important to keep in mind that no theosophical book acquires the least additional value from pretended authority. =A0=A0=A0 In etymology Adi, and Adhi Budha, the one (or the First) and =93S= upreme Wisdom=94 is a term used by Aryasanga in his Secret treatises, and now by a= ll the mystic Northern Buddhists=85. It means the absolute Wisdom, and =93Adi-bhuta=94 is translated =93the primeval uncreated cause of all=94 by Fitzedward Hall. =85=93Buddha,=94 the acquirement of it by personal efforts= and merit; while Buddhi is the faculty of cognizing the channel through which divine knowledge reaches the =93Ego,=94 the discernment of good and evil, =93divine conscience=94 also; and =93Spiritual Soul,=94 which is the vehicl= e of Atma=85=20 =A0=A0=A0 For the Esoteric philosophy is alone calculated to withstand, in= this age of crass and illogical materialism, the repeated attacks on all and everything man holds most dear and sacred, in his inner spiritual life.=20 The true philosopher, the student of the Esoteric Wisdom, entirely loses sight of personalities, dogmatic beliefs and special religions. Moreover, Esoteric philosophy reconciles all religions, strips every one of its outward, human garments, and shows the root of each to be identical with that of every other great religion.=20 It proves the necessity of an absolute Divine Principle in nature. It denie= s Deity no more than it does the Sun. Esoteric philosophy has never rejected God in Nature, nor Deity as the absolute and abstract Ens.=20 It only refuses to accept any of the gods of the so-called monotheistic religions, gods created by man in his own image and likeness, a blasphemous and sorry caricature of the Ever Unknowable.=20 Furthermore, the records we mean to place before the reader embrace the esoteric tenets of the whole world since the beginning of our humanity, and Buddhistic occultism occupies therein only its legitimate place, and no more. Indeed, the secret portions of the =93Dan=94 or =93Jan-na=94* (=93Dhy= an=94) of Gautama=92s metaphysics=97grand as they appear to one unacquainted with the tenets of the Wisdom Religion of antiquity=97are but a very small portion o= f the whole. =85 =A0=A0=A0 Thus the reader is asked to bear in mind the very important diffe= rence between orthodox Buddhism=97i.e., the public teachings of Gautama the Buddh= a, and his esoteric Budhism. His Secret Doctrine, however, differed in no wise from that of the initiated Brahmins of his day. The Buddha was a child of the Aryan soil; a born Hindu, a Kshatrya and a disciple of the =93twice bor= n=94 (the initiated Brahmins) or Dwijas.=20 His teachings, therefore, could not be different from their doctrines, for the whole Buddhist reform merely consisted in giving out a portion of that which had been kept secret from every man outside of the =93enchanted=94 ci= rcle of Temple-Initiates and ascetics. Unable to teach all that had been imparte= d to him=97owing to his pledges=97though he taught a philosophy built upon th= e ground-work of the true esoteric knowledge, the Buddha gave to the world only its outward material body and kept its soul for his Elect=85.=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0 That doctrine was preserved secretly=97too secretly, perhaps= =97within the sanctuary. The mystery that shrouded its chief dogma and aspirations=97Nirvana=97has so tried and irritated the curiosity of those scholars who have studied it, that, unable to solve it logically and satisfactorily by untying the Gordian knot, they cut it through, by declaring that Nirvana meant absolute annihilation=85 =A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 This is the true reason, perhaps, why the outline of a few fundam= ental truths from the Secret Doctrine of the Archaic ages is now permitted to see the light, after long millenniums of the most profound silence and secrecy. I say =93a few truths,=94 advisedly, because that which must remain unsaid = could not be contained in a hundred such volumes, nor could it be imparted to the present generation of Sadducees. But, even the little that is now given is better than complete silence upon those vital truths.=20 The world of to-day, in its mad career towards the unknown=97which it is to= o ready to confound with the unknowable, whenever the problem eludes the gras= p of the physicist=97is rapidly progressing on the reverse, material plane of spirituality. It has now become a vast arena=97a true valley of discord and= of eternal strife=97a necropolis, wherein lie buried the highest and the most holy aspirations of our Spirit-Soul. That soul becomes with every new generation more paralyzed and atrophied. =85 but there is a fair minority o= f earnest students who are entitled to learn the few truths that may be given to them now; and now much more than ten years ago, when =93Isis Unveiled,= =94 or even the later attempts to explain the mysteries of esoteric science, were published. =A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0 One of the greatest, and, withal, the most serious objection to t= he correctness and reliability of the whole work will be the preliminary STANZAS: =93How can the statements contained in them be verified?=94 True, = if a great portion of the Sanskrit, Chinese, and Mongolian works quoted in the present volumes are known to some Orientalists, the chief work=97that one f= rom which the Stanzas are given=97is not in the possession of European Librarie= s.=20 The Book of Dzyan (or =93Dzan=94) is utterly unknown to our Philologists, o= r at any rate was never heard of by them under its present name=85 but to the students of Occultism, and to every genuine Occultist, this will be of little moment.=20 The main body of the Doctrines given is found scattered throughout hundreds and thousands of Sanskrit MSS., some already translated=97disfigured in the= ir interpretations, as usual,=97others still awaiting their turn. Every schola= r, therefore, has an opportunity of verifying the statements herein made, and of checking most of the quotations.=20 A few new facts (new to the profane Orientalist, only) and passages quoted from the Commentaries will be found difficult to trace. Several of the teachings, also, have hitherto been transmitted orally: yet even those are in every instance hinted at in the almost countless volumes of Brahminical, Chinese and Tibetan temple-literature.=94 S D I xviii =96 xxii ] -------------------------------- Interesting ? Best wishes, Dallas =20 From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Jan 10 04:31:56 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 329 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 12:31:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 12:31:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.65) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 12:31:55 -0000 Received: from [216.175.78.28] (helo=DALLAS) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EwIfG-00043H-Gu; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:31:51 -0500 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 04:31:38 -0800 Message-ID: <00a501c615e1$cee46fa0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec798b83dd0fd0a87a5c8a3ba9ed01eef1b4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.65 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: Part I SYNTHESIS OF OCCULT SCIENCE X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=GKWbaRB0XpJ_H10Yqko8Z5Yqz0hqQFCp9JtQ1BCs0xP_qg X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit January 10, 2006 Dear Friends: Many ask about Occultism - the following in 4 parts is most valuable ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------- THE SYNTHESIS OF OCCULT SCIENCE W Q J I The impassable gulf between mind and matter discovered by modern science is a logical result of the present methods of so-called scientific investigation. These methods are analytical and hypothetical, and the results arrived at are necessarily tentative and incomplete. Even the so-called "Synthetic Philosophy" of Spencer is, at best, an effort to grasp the entire method and modulus of nature within one of its processes only. The aim is at synthesis, but it can hardly deserve the name of philosophy, for it is purely speculative and hypothetical. It is as though the physiologist undertook to study the function of respiration in man through the single process of expiration, ignoring the fact that every expiratory act must be supplemented by inspiration or respiration cease altogether. Taking, therefore, the facts of experience derived from the phenomena of nature and viewing both cosmic and organic processes purely from their objective side, the "missing links," "impassable gulfs," and "unthinkable gaps" occur constantly. Not so in Occult Science. So far as the science of occultism is concerned, it is both experimental and analytical, but it acknowledges no "missing links," "impassable gulfs," or "unthinkable gaps," because it finds none. Back of occult science there lies a complete and all-embracing Philosophy. This philosophy is not simply synthetical in its methods, for the simplest as the wildest hypothesis can claim that much; but it is synthesis itself. It regards Nature as one complete whole, and so the student of occultism may stand at either point of observation. He may from the stand-point of Nature's wholeness and completeness follow the process of segregation and differentiation to the minutest atom conditioned in space and time; or, from the phenomenal display of the atom, he may reach forward and upward till the atom becomes an integral part of cosmos, involved in the universal harmony of creation. The modern scientist may do this incidentally or empirically, but the occultist does it systematically and habitually, and hence philosophically. The modern scientist is confessedly and boastfully agnostic. The occultist is reverently and progressively gnostic. Modern science recognizes matter as "living" and "dead," "organic" and "inorganic," and "Life" as merely a phenomenon of matter. Occult science recognizes, "foremost of all, the postulate that there is no such thing in Nature as inorganic substances or bodies. Stones, minerals, rocks, and even chemical 'atoms' are simply organic units in profound lethargy. Their coma has an end, and their inertia becomes activity." (Secret Doctrine, Vol. I, p. 626 fn.) Occultism recognizes ONE UNIVERSAL, ALL-PERVADING LIFE. Modern science recognizes life as a special phenomenon of matter, a mere transient manifestation due to temporary conditions. Even logic and analogy ought to have taught us better, for the simple reason that so-called "inorganic" or "dead" matter constantly becomes organic and living, while matter from the organic plane is continually being reduced to the inorganic. How rational and justifiable, then, to suppose that the capacity or "potency" of life is latent in all matter! The "elements," "atoms," and "molecules" of modern science, partly physical and partly metaphysical, though altogether hypothetical, are, nevertheless, seldom philosophical, for the simple reason that they are regarded solely as phenomenal. The Law of Avogadro involved a generalization as to physical structure and number, and the later experiments of Prof. Neumann deduced the same law mathematically from the first principles of the mechanical theory of gases, but it remained for Prof. Crookes to perceive the philosophical necessity of a primordial substratum, protyle, and so, as pointed out in the Secret Doctrine, to lay the foundations of "Metachemistry"; in other words, a complete philosophy of physics and chemistry that shall take the place of mere hypothesis and empiricism. If one or two generalizations deduced as logical or mathematical necessities from the phenomena of physics and chemistry have been able to work such revolutions in the old chemistry, what may we not expect from a complete synthesis that shall grasp universals by a law that compasses the whole domain of matter? And yet this complete synthesis has been in the possession of the true occultist for ages. Glimpses of this philosophy have been sufficient to give to minds like Kepler, Descartes, Leibnitz, Kant, Schopenhauer, and, lastly, to Prof. Crookes, ideas that claimed and held the interested attention of the scientific world. While, at certain points, such writers supplement and corroborate each other, neither anywhere nor altogether do they reveal the complete synthesis, for none of them possessed it, and yet it has all along existed. "Let the reader remember these 'Monads' of Leibnitz, every one of which is a living mirror of the universe, every monad reflecting every other, and compare this view and definition with certain Sanskrit stanzas (Slokas) translated by Sir William Jones, in which it is said that the creative source of the Divine Mind,...'Hidden in a veil of thick darkness, formed mirrors of the atoms of the world, and cast reflection from its own face on every atom'." - S.D., Vol. I, p. 623. It may be humiliating to "Modern Exact Science" and repugnant to the whole of Christendom to have to admit that the Pagans whom they have despised, and the "Heathen Scriptures" they long ridiculed or ignored, nevertheless possess a fund of wisdom never dreamed of under Western skies. They have the lesson, however, to learn, that Science by no means originated in, nor is it confined to, the West, nor are superstition and ignorance confined to the East. It can easily be shown that every real discovery and every important advancement in modern science have already been anticipated centuries ago by ancient science and philosophy. It is true that these ancient doctrines have been embodied in unknown languages and symbols, and recorded in books inaccessible to western minds till a very recent date. Far beyond all this inaccessibility, however, as a cause preventing these old truths from reaching modern times, has been the prejudice, the scorn and contempt of ancient learning manifested by the leaders of modern thought. Nor is the lesson yet learned that bigotry and scorn are never the mark of wisdom or the harbingers of learning; for still, with comparatively few exceptions, any claim or discussion of these ancient doctrines is met with contempt and scorn. The record has, however, been at least outlined and presented to the world. As the authors of the Secret Doctrine have remarked, these doctrines may not be largely accepted by the present generation, but during the twentieth century they will become known and appreciated. The scope and bearing of philosophy itself are hardly yet appreciated by modern thought, because of its materialistic tendency. A complete science of metaphysics and a complete philosophy of science are not yet even conceived of as possible; hence the ancient wisdom by its very vastness has escaped recognition in modern times. That the authors of ancient wisdom have spoken from at least two whole planes of conscious experience beyond that of our ever-day "sense-perception" is to us inconceivable, and yet such is the fact; and why should the modern advocate of evolution be shocked and staggered by such a disclosure? It but justifies his hypothesis and extends its theatre. Is it because the present custodians of this ancient learning do not scramble for recognition on the stock exchange, and enter into competition in the marts of the world? If the practical outcome of such competition needed illustration, Mr. Keely might serve as an example. The discoveries of the age are already whole centuries in advance of its ethical culture, and the knowledge that should place still further power in the hands of a few individuals whose ethical code is below, rather than above, that of the ignorant, toiling, suffering masses, could only minister to anarchy and increase oppression. On these higher planes of consciousness the law of progress is absolute; knowledge and power go hand in hand with beneficence to man, not alone to the individual possessors of wisdom, but to the whole human race. The custodians of the higher knowledge are equally by both motive and development almoners of the divine. These are the very conditions of the higher consciousness referred to. The synthesis of occult science becomes, therefore, the higher synthesis of the faculties of man. What matter, therefore, if the ignorant shall scout its very existence, or treat it with ridicule and contempt? Those who know of its existence and who have learned something of its scope and nature can, in their turn, afford to smile, but with pity and sorrow at the willing bondage to ignorance and misery that scorns enlightenment and closes its eyes to the plainest truths of experience. Leaving, for the present, the field of physics and Cosmogenesis, it may be profitable to consider some of the applications of these doctrines to the functions and life of man. The intellect derived from philosophy is similar to a charioteer; for it is present with our desires, and always conducts them to the beautiful ` - DEMOPHILUS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Best wishes, Dallas [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Jan 10 04:37:31 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 20510 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 12:37:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 12:37:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.65) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 12:37:29 -0000 Received: from [216.175.78.28] (helo=DALLAS) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EwIkM-0005hg-0E; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:37:07 -0500 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 04:36:48 -0800 Message-ID: <00aa01c615e2$8ab18600$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79b0282b4d3be73a0df3136ded2a7fab51350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.65 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: Part II SYNTHESIS OF OCCULT SCIENCE X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=KRSKAF7l9wqKslyXn9J0tTyoI2L53_Bvidi0rMPcEHwLeA X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit January 10, 2006 Dear Friends: Here is Part II SYNTHESIS OF OCCULT SCIENCE a most valuable exposition on this subject ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- Part II SYNTHESIS OF OCCULT SCIENCE II "In reality, as Occult philosophy teaches us, everything which changes is organic; it has the life principle in it, and it has all the potentiality of the higher lives. If, as we say, all in nature is an aspect of the one element, and life is universal, how can there be such a thing as an inorganic atom!"(1) Man is a perfected animal, but before he could have reached perfection even on the animal plane, there must have dawned upon him the light of a higher plane. Only the perfected animal can cross the threshold of the next higher, or the human plane, and as he does so there shines upon him the ray from the suprahuman plane. Therefore, as the dawn of humanity illumines the animal plane, and as a guiding star lures the Monad to higher consciousness, so the dawn of divinity illumines the human plane, luring the monad to the supra-human plane of consciousness. This is neither more nor less than the philosophical and metaphysical aspect of the law of evolution. Man has not one principle more than the tiniest insect; he is, however, "the vehicle of a fully developed Monad, self-conscious and deliberately following its own line of progress, whereas in the insect, and even the higher animal, the higher triad of principles is absolutely dormant." Monad -- CONSCIOUSNESS The original Monad has, therefore, locked within it the potentiality of divinity. It is plainly, therefore, a misnomer to call that process of thought a "Synthetic Philosophy" that deals only with phenomena and ends with matter on the physical plane. These two generalizations of Occult philosophy, endowing every atom with the potentiality of life, and regarding every insect or animal as already possessing the potentialities of the higher planes though these powers are yet dormant, add to the ordinary Spencerian theory of evolution precisely that element that it lacks, viz, the metaphysical and philosophical; and, thus endowed, the theory becomes synthetical. The Monad, then, is essentially and potentially the same in the lowest vegetable organism, up through all forms and gradations of animal life to man, and beyond. There is a gradual unfolding of its potentialities from "Monera" to man, and there are two whole planes of consciousness, the sixth and the seventh "senses," not yet unfolded to the average humanity. Every monad that is enclosed in a form, and hence limited by matter, becomes conscious on its own plane and in its own degree. Consciousness, therefore, no less than sensitiveness, belongs to plants as well as to animals. Self-consciousness belongs to man, because, while embodied in a form, the higher triad of principles, Atma-Buddhi-Manas, is no longer dormant, but active. This activity is, however, far from being fully developed. When this activity has become fully developed, man will already have become conscious on a still higher plane, endowed with the sixth and the opening of the seventh sense, and will have become a "god" in the sense given to that term by Plato and his followers. In thus giving this larger and completer meaning to the law of evolution, the Occult philosophy entirely eliminates the "missing links" of modern science, and, by giving to man a glimpse of his nature and destiny, not only points out the line of the higher evolution, but puts him in possession of the means of achieving it. The "atoms" and "monads" of the Secret Doctrine are very different from the atoms and molecules of modern science. To the latter these are mere particles of matter endowed with blind force: to the former, they are the "dark nucleoles," and potentially "Gods," conscious and intelligent from their primeval embodiment at the beginning of differentiation in the dawn of the Manvantara. There are no longer any hard and fast lines between the "organic" and the "inorganic"; between the "living" and "dead" matter. Every atom is endowed with and moved by intelligence, and is conscious in its own degree, on its own plane of development. This is a glimpse of the One Life that-- Runs through all time, extends through all extent, Lives undivided, operates unspent. It may be conceived that the "Ego" in man is a monad that has gathered to itself innumerable experiences through aeons of time, slowly unfolding its latent potencies through plane after plane of matter. It is hence called the "eternal pilgrim." The Manasic, or mind principle, is cosmic and universal. It is the creator of all forms, and the basis of all law in nature. Not so with consciousness. Consciousness is a condition of the monad as the result of embodiment in matter and the dwelling in a physical form. Self-consciousness, which from the animal plane looking upward is the beginning of perfection, from the divine plane looking downward is the perfection of selfishness and the curse of separateness. MAYA -- ILLUSION It is the "world of illusion" that man has created for himself. "Maya is the perceptive faculty of every Ego which considers itself a Unit, separate from and independent of the One Infinite and Eternal Sat or 'be-ness." The "eternal pilgrim" must therefore mount higher, and flee from the plane of self-consciousness it has struggled so hard to reach. The complex structure that we call "Man" is made up of a congeries of almost innumerable "Lives." Not only every microscopic cell of which the tissues are composed, but the molecules and atoms of which these cells are composed, are permeated with the essence of the "One Life." Every so-called organic cell is known to have its nucleus, a center of finer or more sensitive matter. The nutritive, all the formative and functional processes consist of flux and re-flux, of inspiration and expiration, to and from the nucleus. The nucleus is therefore in its own degree and after its kind a "monad" imprisoned in a "form." Every microscopic cell, therefore, has a consciousness and an intelligence of its own, and man thus consists of innumerable "lives." This is but physiological synthesis, logically deduced no less from the known facts in physiology and histology than the logical sequence of the philosophy of occultism. Health of the body as a whole depends on the integrity of all its parts, and more especially upon their harmonious association and cooperation. A diseased tissue is one in which a group of individual cells refuse to cooperate, and wherein is set up discordant action, using less or claiming more than their due share of food or energy. Disease of the very tissue of mans body is neither more nor less than the "sin of separateness." Moreover, the grouping of cells is upon the principle of hierarchies. Smaller groups are subordinate to larger congeries, and these again are subordinate to larger, or to the whole. Every microscopic cell therefore typifies and epitomizes man, as man is an epitome of the Universe. As already remarked, the "Eternal Pilgrim," the Alter-Ego in man, is a monad progressing through the ages. By right and by endowment the ego is king in the domain of mans bodily life. It descended into matter in the cosmic process till it reached the mineral plane, and then journeyed upward through the "three kingdoms" till it reached the human plane. The elements of its being, like the cells and molecules of mans body, are groupings of structures accessory or subordinate to it. The human monad or Ego is therefore akin to all below it and heir to all above it, linked by indissoluble bonds to spirit and matter, "God" and "Nature." The attributes that it gathers, and the faculties that it unfolds, are but the latent and dormant potentialities awaking to conscious life. The tissue cells constitute mans bodily structure, but the order in which they are arranged, the principle upon which they are grouped, constituting the human form, is not simply an evolved shape from the lower animal plane, but an involved principle from a higher plane, an older world, viz, the "Lunar Pitris." MANAS -- MIND "Hanuman the Monkey" antedates Darwin's "missing link" by thousands of millenniums. So also the Manasic, or mind element, with its cosmic and infinite potentialities, is not merely the developed "instinct" of the animal. Mind is the latent or active potentiality of Cosmic Ideation, the essence of every form, the basis of every law, the potency of every principle in the universe. Human thought is the reflection or reproduction in the realm of mans consciousness of these forms, laws, and principles. Hence man senses and apprehends nature just as nature unfolds in him. When, therefore, the Monad has passed through the form of the animal ego, involved and unfolded the human form, the higher triad of principles awakens from the sleep of ages and over-shadowed by the "Manasa-putra" and built into its essence and substance. How could man epitomize Cosmos if he did not touch it at every point and involve it in every principle? If mans being is woven in the web of destiny, his potencies and possibilities take hold of divinity as the woof and pattern of his boundless life. Why, then, should he grow weary or disheartened? Alas! why should he be degraded, this heir of all things! The peculiarity also of this theology, and in which its transcendency consists, is this, that it does not consider the highest God to be the principle of beings, but The Principle Of Principles, i.e. of deiform processions from itself, all which are eternally rooted in the unfathomable depths of the immensely great source of their existence, and of which they may be called supersensuous ramifications and superluminous blossoms. --Thomas Taylor. Introduction to Mystical Hymns of Orpheus ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- Best wishes, Dallas [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Jan 10 04:42:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2044 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 12:42:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 12:42:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.65) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 12:42:47 -0000 Received: from [216.175.78.28] (helo=DALLAS) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EwIpo-0007bi-6f; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:42:45 -0500 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 04:42:26 -0800 Message-ID: <00af01c615e3$545cb880$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79dce2685f0119f17344c90d59c6402d0b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.65 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: Part 3 THE SYNTHESIS OF OCCULT SCIENCE X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=ImnjC6RyGvyzbxNLwyhhTZYn07_ypNIDHtGpUYcJo0MU4w X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit January 10, 2006 Re: Part 3 THE SYNTHESIS OF OCCULT SCIENCE Dear Friends: Here is part 3 of this valuable article. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------ Part 3 THE SYNTHESIS OF OCCULT SCIENCE III It has often been thought a strange thing that there are no dogmas and no creed in Theosophy or Occultism. Is theosophy a religion? is often asked. No, it is religion. Is it a philosophy? No, it is philosophy. Is it a science? No, it is science. If a consensus of religion, philosophy, and science is possible, and if it has ever been reached in human thought, that thought must long since have passed the boundaries of all creeds and ceased to dogmatize. Hence comes the difficulty in Answering Questions. No proposition stands apart or can be taken separately without limiting and often distorting its meaning. Every proposition has to be considered and held as subservient to the synthetic whole. Really intelligent people, capable of correct reasoning, often lack sufficient interest to endeavor to apprehend the universality of these principles. They expect, where they have any interest at all in the subject, to be told "all about it" in an hours conversation, or to learn it from a column in some newspaper; all about man, all about Nature, all about Deity; and then either to reject it or to make it a part of their previous creed. These are really no wiser than the penny-a-liner who catches some point and turns it into ridicule, or makes it a butt for coarse jest or silly sarcasm, and then complacently imagines that he has demolished the whole structure! If such persons were for one moment placed face to face with their own folly, they would be amazed. HIGHER EVOLUTION The most profound thinker and the most correct reasoner might well afford to devote a life-time to the apprehension of the philosophy of occultism, and other life-times to mastering the scientific details, while at the same time his ethics and his religious life are made consistent with the principle of altruism and the Brotherhood of man. If this be regarded as too hard a task, it is, nevertheless, the line of the higher evolution of man, and, soon or late, every soul must follow it, retrograde, or cease to be. Man is but a link in an endless chain of being; a sequence of a past eternity of causes and processes; a potentiality born into time, but spanning two eternities, his past and his future, and in his consciousness these are all one, Duration, the ever-present. In a former article man was shown to be a series of almost innumerable "Lives," and these lives, these living entities called "cells," were shown to be associated together on the principle of hierarchies, grouped according to rank and order, service and development, and this was shown to be the "physical synthesis" of man, and the organic synthesis as well. Disease was also shown to be the organic nutritive, or physiological "sin of separateness." Every department of man's being, every organ and cell of his body, was also shown to possess a consciousness and an intelligence of its own, held, however, subordinate to the whole. In health every action is synchronous and rhythmical, however varied and expanded, however intense and comprehensive. Enough is already known in modern physics to justify all these statements, at least by analogy. The principle of electrical induction and vibration, the quantitative and qualitative transmission of vibration and its exact registration, and their application to telegraphy, the telephone, and the phonograph, have upset all previous theories of physics and physiology. "A metallic plate, for instance, can that talk like a human being? Yea or nay? Mr. Bouillard--and he was no common man--said No; to accept such a fact were to upset all our notions of physiology. So said Mr. Bouillard, right in the face of Edison's phonograph in full Academy, and he throttled the luckless interpreter of the famous American inventor, accusing it of ventriloquism." (2) Occultism teaches that the Ego both precedes and survives the physical body. The phenomena of man's life and the process of his thought can be apprehended and explained on no other theory. Modern physiology teaches in detail certain facts regarding the life of man. It, moreover, groups these facts and deduces certain so-called principles and laws, but such a thing as a synthesis of the whole man is seldom even attempted. "Psychology" is mere empiricism, represented by disjointed facts, and these, of course, but little understood, and more often misinterpreted. Ask the modern physiologist if man can think when unconscious, and he will answer No; and if asked if man can be conscious and not think, he will as readily answer No. Both answers will be based on what is known, or supposed to be known, of memory. The idea that the real man, the Ego, is always conscious on some plane, and that it "thinks," as we ordinarily use the term, only on the lower plane through the physical brain, in terms of extension and duration, or space and time, is seldom in the least apprehended by the modern physiologist. If, however, one grasps the idea of the ego as the real man dwelling in the physical body and using it as its instrument through which it is related to space and time, perception, sensation, thought, and feeling, the gaps in physiology and psychology begin to disappear. Here again it should be particularly borne in mind that this doctrine of the ego must be considered in the light of the complete synthesis of occultism, and just to the extent that this is intelligently done will the significance of the ego appear. The brief and concise outline of the philosophy of occultism given in the Introduction to the Secret Doctrine is therefore very significant, and the student who desires to apprehend that which follows in these two large volumes ought to study this outline very carefully. No subsequent proposition, no principle in the life of man, can be correctly understood apart from it. The subject-matter following is necessarily fragmentary, but the outline is both inclusive and philosophical, and if one reasons logically and follows the plainest analogies he can never go far astray. The relation of mind to brain, of thought to consciousness, of life to matter, and of man to Nature and to Deity, is there clearly defined; not, indeed, in all its details, but in a philosophical modulus, to be worked out in reason and in life. The all-pervading Life, the cyclic or periodical movements, the periods of action and of repose, and the intimate relations and inter-dependences of all things apply to Cosmos, and equally to every atom in its vast embrace. Students sometimes complain that they cannot understand, that the subject is so vast, and so deep and intricate, and not made clear. It is because they do not realize what they have undertaken. Occultism can neither be taught nor learned in "a few easy lessons." The "object lessons" sometimes given by H.P.B., almost always misunderstood and misapplied, though often explained at the time, served as often to excite vulgar curiosity and personal abuse as to arrest attention and study. If, before the advent of the T.S. in the face of the creeds of Christendom, the materialism of science, the indifferences and supercilious scorn of Agnosticism, and the babel of spiritualism, it had been proposed to begin at the foundations and reconstruct our entire knowledge of Nature and of man; to show the unity and the foundations of the worlds religions; to eliminate from science all its "missing links"; to make Agnosticism gnostic; and to place the science of psychology and the nature and laws of mind and soul over against "Mediumship"; it would have been held as an herculean task, and declared impossible of accomplishment. Now that the thing has virtually been accomplished and this body of knowledge presented to the world, people think it strange that they cannot compass it all, as the poet Burns is said to have written some of his shorter poems, "while standing on one leg!" Again, people complain at the unfamiliar terms and the strange words imported from foreign languages. Yet if one were to undertake the study of physics, chemistry, music, or medicine, quite as great obstacles have to be overcome. Is it a strange thing, then, that the science that includes all these, and undertakes to give a synthesis of the whole realm of Nature and of life, should have its own nomenclature? CONTENTION Beyond all these necessary and natural obstacles, there is another, viz., that contentious spirit that disputes and opposes every point before it is fairly stated or understood. Suppose one ignorant of mathematics were to proceed in the same manner and say, "I don't like that proposition," "I don't see why they turn a six upside down to make a nine," "Why don't two and two make five?", and so on, how long would it take such a one to learn mathematics? In the study of the Secret Doctrine it is not a matter of likes or dislikes, of belief or unbelief, but solely a matter of intelligence and understanding. He who acknowledges his ignorance and yet is unwilling to lay aside his likes and dislikes, and even his creeds and dogmas, for the time, in order to see what is presented in its own light and purely on its merits, has neither need nor use for the Secret Doctrine. Even where a greater number of propositions are accepted or "believed" and a few are rejected, the synthetic whole is entirely lost sight of. But, says some one, this is a plea for blind credulity, and an attempt to bind the mind and the conscience of man to a blind acceptance of these doctrines. No one but the ignorant or the dishonest can make such an assertion in the face of the facts. Listen to the following from p. xix, Introduction to the Secret Doctrine. "It is above everything important to keep in mind that no theosophical book acquires the least additional value from pretended authority." S D I xix If that be advocating blind credulity, let the enemies of the T.S. make the most of it. If any authority pertains to the Secret Doctrine, it must be sought inside, not outside. It must rest on its comprehensiveness, its completeness, its continuity and reasonableness; in other words, on its philosophical synthesis, a thing missed alike by the superficial and the contentious, by the indolent, the superstitious, and the dogmatic. "O wise man: you have asked rightly. Now listen carefully. The illusive fancies arising from error are not conclusive. The great and peaceful ones live regenerating the world like the coming of spring, and after having themselves crossed the ocean of embodied existence, help those who try to do the same thing, without personal motives." --Crest Jewel of Wisdom [Shankaracharya] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------- Dallas [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Tue Jan 10 04:42:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 35540 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 12:42:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 12:42:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m24.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.5) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 12:42:59 -0000 Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.2d3.ec7cc1 (3924) for ; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:42:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2d3.ec7cc1.30f505cc@aol.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:42:52 EST To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5021 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.5 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Appearance of the Masters X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=0E8RoP-QujvLuyhrgLzTZ-kpokMGKrg_UFtNvEnPlvJ30ZK0ig X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/10/2006 1:52:53 AM Central Standard Time, waking.adept@gmail.com writes: Why has there been such disharmony around the new year? Strikes me as kind of odd. It's the hangovers. Chuck the Heretic _http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano_ (http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Jan 10 04:51:36 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 389 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 12:51:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 12:51:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.65) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 12:51:34 -0000 Received: from [216.175.78.28] (helo=DALLAS) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EwIyH-0002N9-VF; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:51:30 -0500 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 04:51:17 -0800 Message-ID: <00b401c615e4$8db712f0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79abb1677575cdc61052eb5f97c296254d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.65 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: ( Read along with part 3 of SYNTHESIS OF OCCULT SCIENCE) INTRODUCTION TO THE SECRET DOCTRINE X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=hMOR9RTj-xvaWJ4n9nwnuS9F7_yRqIQY2yeZZ7u1KREJYg X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable INTRODUCTION TO THE SECRET DOCTRINE=20=20 =20 =20 =20 (Referenced to Part 3 SYNTHESIS OF OCCULT SCIENCE ) =20 =20 [xvii] Old truisms are often the wisest. The human mind can hardly remain entirely free from bias, and decisive opinions are often formed before a thorough examination of a subject from all its aspects has been made. =85 =20 =85 Sinnett=92s work, had ceased to be esoteric from the moment they were m= ade public; nor did it contain the religion of Buddha, but simply a few tenets from a hitherto hidden teaching which are now supplemented by many more, enlarged and explained in the present volumes.=20 =20 But even the latter, though giving out many fundamental tenets from the SECRET DOCTRINE of the East, raise but a small corner of the dark veil.=20 =20 For no one, not even the greatest living adept, would be permitted to, or could=97even if he would=97give out promiscuously, to a mocking, unbelievin= g world, that which has been so effectually concealed from it for long =E6ons and ages. =85 =20 [xviii] The =93Wisdom Religion=94 is the inheritance of all the nations,= the world over, =85 the present writer knew all that which is =93divulged=94 in =93Esoteric Buddhism=94=97 and much more =97 many years before it became he= r duty (in 1880) to impart a small portion of the Secret Doctrine to two European gentlemen, one of whom was the author of =93Esoteric Buddhism=94; and surel= y the present writer has the undoubted, though to her, rather equivocal, privileg= e of being a European, by birth and education.=20 =20 Moreover, a considerable part of the philosophy expounded by Mr. Sinnett wa= s taught in America, even before Isis Unveiled was published, to two European= s and to my colleague, Colonel H. S. Olcott. Of the three teachers the latter gentleman has had, the first was a Hungarian Initiate, the second an Egyptian, the third a Hindu. As permitted, Colonel Olcott has given out som= e of this teaching in various ways; if the other two have not, it has been simply because they were not allowed: their time for public work having not yet come. =85It is above everything important to keep in mind that no theosophical book acquires the least additional value from pretended authority. In etymology Adi, and Adhi Budha, the one (or the First) and =93Supreme Wisdom=94 is a term used by Aryasanga in his Secret treatises, and now by a= ll the mystic Northern Buddhists=85. It means the absolute Wisdom, and =93Adi-bhuta=94 is translated =93the primeval uncreated cause of all=94 by Fitzedward Hall. =85 =20 =93Buddha,=94 the acquirement of it by personal efforts and merit; while Bu= ddhi is the faculty of cognizing the channel through which divine knowledge reaches the =93Ego,=94 the discernment of good and evil, =93divine conscien= ce=94 also; and =93Spiritual Soul,=94 which is the vehicle of Atma=85=20 For the Esoteric philosophy is alone calculated to withstand, in this age of crass and illogical materialism, the repeated attacks on all and everything man holds most dear and sacred, in his inner spiritual life.=20 =20 The true philosopher, the student of the Esoteric Wisdom, entirely loses sight of personalities, dogmatic beliefs and special religions. Moreover, Esoteric philosophy reconciles all religions, strips every one of its outward, human garments, and shows the root of each to be identical with that of every other great religion.=20 =20 It proves the necessity of an absolute Divine Principle in nature. It denie= s Deity no more than it does the Sun. Esoteric philosophy has never rejected God in Nature, nor Deity as the absolute and abstract Ens.=20 =20 It only refuses to accept any of the gods of the so-called monotheistic religions, gods created by man in his own image and likeness, a blasphemous and sorry caricature of the Ever Unknowable.=20 =20 Furthermore, the records we mean to place before the reader embrace the esoteric tenets of the whole world since the beginning of our humanity, and Buddhistic occultism occupies therein only its legitimate place, and no more. Indeed, the secret portions of the =93Dan=94 or =93Jan-na=94* (=93Dhy= an=94) of Gautama=92s metaphysics=97grand as they appear to one unacquainted with the tenets of the Wisdom Religion of antiquity=97are but a very small portion o= f the whole. =85 =20 Thus the reader is asked to bear in mind the very important difference between orthodox Buddhism=97i.e., the public teachings of Gautama the Buddh= a, and his esoteric Budhism.=20 =20 His Secret Doctrine, however, differed in no wise from that of the initiate= d Brahmins of his day. The Buddha was a child of the Aryan soil; a born Hindu= , a Kshatrya and a disciple of the =93twice born=94 (the initiated Brahmins) = or Dwijas.=20 =20 His teachings, therefore, could not be different from their doctrines, for the whole Buddhist reform merely consisted in giving out a portion of that which had been kept secret from every man outside of the =93enchanted=94 ci= rcle of Temple-Initiates and ascetics.=20 =20 Unable to teach all that had been imparted to him=97owing to his pledges=97though he taught a philosophy built upon the ground-work of the t= rue esoteric knowledge, the Buddha gave to the world only its outward material body and kept its soul for his Elect=85.=20 That doctrine was preserved secretly=97too secretly, perhaps=97within = the sanctuary. The mystery that shrouded its chief dogma and aspirations=97Nirvana=97has so tried and irritated the curiosity of those scholars who have studied it, that, unable to solve it logically and satisfactorily by untying the Gordian knot, they cut it through, by declaring that Nirvana meant absolute annihilation=85 =20=20 This is the true reason, perhaps, why the outline of a few fundamental truths from the Secret Doctrine of the Archaic ages is now permitted to see the light, after long millenniums of the most profound silence and secrecy. I say =93a few truths,=94 advisedly, because that which must remain unsaid = could not be contained in a hundred such volumes, nor could it be imparted to the present generation of Sadducees. But, even the little that is now given is better than complete silence upon those vital truths.=20 =20 The world of to-day, in its mad career towards the unknown=97which it is to= o ready to confound with the unknowable, whenever the problem eludes the gras= p of the physicist=97is rapidly progressing on the reverse, material plane of spirituality. It has now become a vast arena=97a true valley of discord and= of eternal strife=97a necropolis, wherein lie buried the highest and the most holy aspirations of our Spirit-Soul. That soul becomes with every new generation more paralyzed and atrophied. =85 but there is a fair minority o= f earnest students who are entitled to learn the few truths that may be given to them now; and now much more than ten years ago, when =93Isis Unveiled,= =94 or even the later attempts to explain the mysteries of esoteric science, were published. =20=20=20=20 One of the greatest, and, withal, the most serious objection to the correctness and reliability of the whole work will be the preliminary STANZAS: =93How can the statements contained in them be verified?=94 True, = if a great portion of the Sanskrit, Chinese, and Mongolian works quoted in the present volumes are known to some Orientalists, the chief work=97that one f= rom which the Stanzas are given=97is not in the possession of European Librarie= s. The Book of Dzyan (or =93Dzan=94) is utterly unknown to our Philologists, o= r at any rate was never heard of by them under its present name=85 but to the students of Occultism, and to every genuine Occultist, this will be of little moment.=20 =20 The main body of the Doctrines given is found scattered throughout hundreds and thousands of Sanskrit MSS., some already translated=97disfigured in the= ir interpretations, as usual,=97others still awaiting their turn. Every schola= r, therefore, has an opportunity of verifying the statements herein made, and of checking most of the quotations. A few new facts (new to the profane Orientalist, only) and passages quoted from the Commentaries will be found difficult to trace. Several of the teachings, also, have hitherto been transmitted orally: yet even those are in every instance hinted at in the almost countless volumes of Brahminical, Chinese and Tibetan temple-literature.=94 S D I xviii =96 xxii ] =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Dallas =20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Jan 10 04:58:07 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1472 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 12:58:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 12:58:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.65) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 12:58:06 -0000 Received: from [216.175.78.28] (helo=DALLAS) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EwJ4b-0004mz-CI; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:58:02 -0500 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 04:57:44 -0800 Message-ID: <00b901c615e5$76c27f70$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79ee3c5aed9d6b50d08bc07818f5235311350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.65 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: Part 4 SYNTHESIS OF OCCULT SCIENCE X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=bZpSUJj49Hx5_LfXDR0XuCBPdx9Po4wI-SMN_xl2qVIT6Q X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit January 10, 2006 Dear Friends: Here is the final -- Part 4 SYNTHESIS OF OCCULT SCIENCE ================================================ Part 4 SYNTHESIS OF OCCULT SCIENCE IV In the foregoing articles, necessarily brief and fragmentary, a few points have been given to show the general bearing of the Secret Doctrine on all problems in Nature and in Life. Synthesis is the very essence of philosophy -- "the combination of separate elements of thought into a whole" -- the opposite of analysis, and analysis is the very essence of science. In the "Outline of the Secret Doctrine" by "C. J.," now running through the pages of Lucifer, this philosophy or synthesis of the whole is made very clear. There have been many philosophisers in modern times, but there can be but one philosophy, one synthesis of the whole of Eternal Nature. PLATO With the single exception of the writings of Plato, no one in modern times had given to the Western world any approximation to a complete philosophy, previous to the appearance of H. P. Blavatsky's Secret Doctrine. The writings of Plato are carefully veiled in the symbolical language of initiation. The Secret Doctrine, coming more than two millenniums later, and in an age of so-called Science, is addressed to the Scientific thought of the age, and hence considers the whole subject largely from the stand-point of Science. The present age is as deficient in philosophy as was the age of Plato in knowledge of science. It follows, therefore, that while the Secret Doctrine itself apprehends equally both philosophy and science, in addressing itself to the thought of an age it must recognize here, as it does everywhere, the law of cycles that rules in the intellectual development of a race no less than in the revolutions of suns and worlds, and so address the times from that plane of thought that is in the ascendant. It is just because analytical thought is in the ascendant, because it is the thought-form of the age, that the great majority of readers are likely to overlook the broad synthesis and so miss the philosophy of the Secret Doctrine. The only object of these brief and fragmentary papers has been to call attention to this point. We are now in a transition period, and in the approaching twentieth century there will be a revival of genuine philosophy, and the Secret Doctrine will be the basis of the "New Philosophy." SCIENCE Science today, in the persons of such advanced students as Keely, Crookes, Lodge, Richardson, and many others, already treads so close to the borders of occult philosophy that it will not be possible to prevent the new age from entering the occult realm. H. P. Blavatsky's Secret Doctrine is a storehouse of scientific facts, but this is not its chief value. These facts are placed, approximately at least, in such relation to the synthesis or philosophy of occultism as to render comparatively easy the task of the student who is in search of real knowledge, and to further his progress beyond all preconception, provided he is teachable, in earnest, and intelligent. Nowhere else in English literature is the Law of Evolution given such sweep and swing. It reminds one of the ceaseless under-tone of the deep sea, and seems to view our Earth in all its changes "from the birth of time to the crack of doom." It follows man in his triple evolution, physical, mental, and spiritual, throughout the perfect circle of his boundless life. Darwinism had reached its limits and a rebound. Man is indeed evolved from lower forms. But which man? the physical? the psychical? the intellectual? or the spiritual? The Secret Doctrine points where the lines of evolution and involution meet; where matter and spirit clasp hands; and where the rising animal stands face to face with the fallen god; for all natures meet and mingle in man. Judge no proposition of the Secret Doctrine as though it stood alone, for not one stands alone. Not "independence" here more than with the units that constitute Humanity. It is interdependence everywhere; in nature, as in life. KARMA AND REINCARNATION Even members of the T.S. have often wondered why H.P.B. and others well known in the Society lay so much stress on doctrines like Karma and Reincarnation. It is not alone because these doctrines are easily apprehended and beneficent to individuals, not only because they furnish, as they necessarily do, a solid foundation for ethics, or all human conduct, but because they are the very key-notes of the higher evolution of man. Without Karma and Reincarnation evolution is but a fragment; a process whose beginnings are unknown, and whose outcome cannot be discerned; a glimpse of what might be; a hope of what should be. But in the light of Karma and Reincarnation evolution becomes the logic of what must be. The links in the chain of being are all filled in, and the circles of reason and of life are complete. Karma gives the eternal law of action, and Reincarnation furnishes the boundless field for its display. Thousands of persons can understand these two principles, apply them as a basis of conduct, and weave them into the fabric of their lives, who may not be able to grasp the complete synthesis of that endless evolution of which these doctrines form so important a part. In thus affording even the superficial thinker and the weak or illogical reasoner a perfect basis for ethics and an unerring guide in life. Theosophy is building toward the future realization of the Universal Brotherhood and the higher evolution of man. But few in this generation realize the work that is thus undertaken, or how much has already been accomplished. The obscurity of the present age in regard to genuine philosophical thought is nowhere more apparent than in the manner in which opposition has been waged toward these doctrines of Karma and Reincarnation. In the seventeen years since the Theosophical movement has been before the world there has not appeared, from any source, a serious and logical attempt to discredit these doctrines from a philosophical basis. There have been denial, ridicule, and denunciation ad nauseum. There could be no discussion from such a basis, for from the very beginning these doctrines have been put forth and advocated from the logical and dispassionate plane of philosophy. Ridicule is both unanswerable and unworthy of answer. It is not the argument, but the atmosphere of weak minds, born of prejudice and ignorance. The synthesis of occultism is therefore the philosophy of Nature and of Life; the full -- or free--truth that apprehends every scientific fact in the light of the unerring processes of Eternal Nature. The time must presently come when the really advanced thinkers of the age will be compelled to lay by their indifference, and their scorn and conceit, and follow the lines of philosophical investigation laid down in the Secret Doctrine. Very few seem yet to have realized how ample are these resources, because it involves a process of thought almost unknown to the present age of empiricism and induction. It is a revelation from archaic ages, indestructible and eternal, yet capable of being obscured and lost; capable of being again and again reborn, or like man himself--reincarnated. "He who lives in one color of the rainbow is blind to the rest. Live in the Light diffused through the entire arc, and you will know it all."--THE PATH. "He who knows not the common things of life is a beast among men. He who knows only the common things of life is a man among beasts. He who knows all that can be learned by diligent inquiry is a god among men."--Plato. W Q J PATH, November, 1891, February, March, May, 1892 Best wishes, Dallas [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Tue Jan 10 07:00:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50897 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 15:00:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 15:00:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.54) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 15:00:29 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 15:00:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 15:00:17 -0000 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 15:00:17 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.54 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: H.P. Blavatsky, the Mahatmas & Theosophy: Introductory Articles & Material X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=giSLvkZJx2eeUlzeVGrsU1rsuPCydSBJ5Jh-sSwfb_1AvfEix-zGYiob X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell H.P. Blavatsky, the Mahatmas & the Theosophical Teachings: Introductory Articles & Material=20 See: http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/articleshpbtheosophy.htm Daniel Blavatsky Study Center http://www.blavatskyarchives.com From samblo@cs.com Tue Jan 10 07:41:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: Samblo@cs.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37609 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 15:41:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 15:41:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m26.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.7) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 15:41:14 -0000 Received: from Samblo@cs.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.2cd.1674d77 (3657) for ; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:40:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2cd.1674d77.30f52f72@cs.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:40:34 EST To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 6.0 sub 10512 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.7 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: samblo@cs.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Appearance of the Masters X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=27151446 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit pedro, Thanks for your comments, they are stimulating and an interesting portal to your personal experience. What were some of your other questions and what were the answers of the Mahathero? Did you ask about the Buddha proffering the yellow Flower in another of his silent answers? John [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From danielhcaldwell@... Tue Jan 10 08:42:24 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@... X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40976 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 16:42:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 16:42:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.42) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 16:42:23 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 16:41:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 16:41:12 -0000 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 16:41:09 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.42 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: Appearances of the Mahatmas, Paranormal Features of Some of the X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=KUJPsxuDCz29XTRuyAewNBdMQiPpnuPk5MnEsqvhsTjmqrmT0Fq51sDj X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Paranormal Features of Some of the=20 Appearances of the Mahatmas See: http://blavatskyarchives.com/mahatmasapparitions.htm Daniel Blavatsky Study Center http://blavatskyarchives.com From prmoliveira@yahoo.com Tue Jan 10 11:58:08 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: prmoliveira@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46101 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 19:58:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 19:58:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.53) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 19:58:05 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 19:57:38 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2006 19:57:38 -0000 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 19:57:37 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <2cd.1674d77.30f52f72@cs.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.53 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 59.167.7.76 From: "prmoliveira" Subject: Theos-World Re: Appearance of the Masters X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39079617; y=QldTyksV8ng1hQpZSQvUrpUvjrzHdUiAJNgVU1MOb4vRCwlWl6U X-Yahoo-Profile: prmoliveira --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, samblo@c... wrote: > Thanks for your comments, they are stimulating and an=20 interesting portal=20 > to your personal experience. What were some of your other=20 questions and what=20 > were the answers of the Mahathero? Did you ask about the Buddha=20 proffering the=20 > yellow Flower in another of his silent answers? Hello John, My two other questions, and his answers, were: 1. What is vipassana? "Clear insight into anicca, anatta and=20 dukkha." [impermanence, not-self and suffering] 2. Are there arhats alive today? "One does not talk about this." 3. Is the Bodhisattva Maitreya presently in a body or=20 not? "Difficult to say. That light is there but because the world is=20 in darkness it cannot see it."=20=20 pedro From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Jan 10 12:07:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25037 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 20:07:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 20:07:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.65) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 20:07:34 -0000 Received: from [216.175.78.28] (helo=DALLAS) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EwPm9-0007dr-Eq; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 15:07:25 -0500 To: Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:07:09 -0800 Message-ID: <00fe01c61621$742d1040$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec794fa151f4fc7725ec3fafa2d854340cab350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.65 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: digest: January 08, 2006 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=9WXMJfnJiKf6Ye1_2EIZhElyeDBlQzx5jvJQB6hipzTt-A X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/10/2006 12:01 PM Dear B A Re: Friedrich Nietzsche, The Gay Science, section 283 "For believe me: the secret for harvesting from existence the greatest fruitfulness and greatest enjoyment is - to live dangerously. " Allow me to ask: But -- what constitutes "danger ?" Does not "existence" mean "to stand out ?" I wonder who or what "stands," and when it emerges, where is it ? Best wishes, Dallas ====================================== -----Original Message----- From: BENJAMIN A Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:14 AM To: Subject: digest: January 08, 2006 ONE MORE NIETZCHSE QUOTE: hello all, can't help adding this quote from Nietzchse: For believe me: the secret for harvesting from existence the greatest fruitfulness and greatest enjoyment is - to live dangerously. Friedrich Nietzsche, The Gay Science, section 283 --- bn-study digest wrote: From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Jan 10 12:12:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 16251 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2006 20:12:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2006 20:12:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.65) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2006 20:12:01 -0000 Received: from [216.175.78.28] (helo=DALLAS) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EwPqG-0003Aq-KJ; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 15:11:40 -0500 To: Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:11:30 -0800 Message-ID: <00ff01c61622$0c7e70f0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.1.20060110111716.01d462c0@telia.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec791da7fe6d9cf975dbe85fb72e29ab8220350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.65 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: Theos-World Spam basket - (att. to Dallas) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=NtPzx4JN4JVAoj5vQixPYO--EiBEtdr0vhDUEt26dOCbDw X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/10/2006 12:07 PM Dear S F Re: SPAM I believe you have 2 alternatives: 1 Tell your PROVIDER [ YAHOO ] that my messages are NOT SPAM. 2 If you do not want me to mail direct to you then I can take you off my list. I enjoy and read what you write. Best wishes, Dallas ================================= -----Original Message----- From: Of S F Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 3:05 AM To: Subject: Spam basket - (att. to Dallas) My dear friend Dallas - Are you conscious of that many of your letters end in a Spam basket. What can you do? Sveinn Freyr _________________________________________ From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 13:57:36 -0800 Subject: spam: Theos-World Re: LORD'S PRAYER OM Reply-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-tis-spam: score=5.35100 (139704,10666 0,121820,115161,139011,139006,105630,18 6059,114990,115793,106640,105400,186063 ,115797,115120,115712,186108,105770,121 108,105700,115690,114844,119645,186025, 119025,115784,115578,115110,113243,1200 30,115298,113228,113289,120324,119898,1 13211,114777,120203,150593,140002,10008 ,10017) 1/9/2006 1:53 PM Dear Friends: H P B writes on this subject: THE YOGA PHILOSOPHY From silva_cass@yahoo.com Tue Jan 10 19:14:39 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 3863 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2006 03:14:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2006 03:14:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52106.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.109) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2006 03:14:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 96352 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jan 2006 03:13:34 -0000 Message-ID: <20060111031334.96350.qmail@web52106.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [211.28.165.96] by web52106.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 19:13:34 PST Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 19:13:34 -0800 (PST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <00fe01c61621$742d1040$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.109 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World RE: digest: January 08, 2006 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=5eA9-QL4L-fquLU2o_OVR5XxkAHna4_Vq64AWG0en2HJIW3CtA X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Was it Goethe that said, "once one truly commits, the whole universe conspires to assist you?" If we couple this with what Nietzsche says, it seems to me that it is the risk takers that benefit the most from existence. Cass "W.Dallas TenBroeck" wrote: 1/10/2006 12:01 PM Dear B A Re: Friedrich Nietzsche, The Gay Science, section 283 "For believe me: the secret for harvesting from existence the greatest fruitfulness and greatest enjoyment is - to live dangerously. " Allow me to ask: But -- what constitutes "danger ?" Does not "existence" mean "to stand out ?" I wonder who or what "stands," and when it emerges, where is it ? Best wishes, Dallas ====================================== -----Original Message----- From: BENJAMIN A Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:14 AM To: Subject: digest: January 08, 2006 ONE MORE NIETZCHSE QUOTE: hello all, can't help adding this quote from Nietzchse: For believe me: the secret for harvesting from existence the greatest fruitfulness and greatest enjoyment is - to live dangerously. Friedrich Nietzsche, The Gay Science, section 283 --- bn-study digest wrote: Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Tue Jan 10 19:20:42 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40698 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2006 03:20:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2006 03:20:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52115.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.118) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2006 03:20:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 16290 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jan 2006 03:20:40 -0000 Message-ID: <20060111032040.16288.qmail@web52115.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [211.28.165.96] by web52115.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 10 Jan 2006 19:20:40 PST Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 19:20:40 -0800 (PST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.118 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World The Temple of the Presence....In answer to the Ascended Masters El Morya and... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=u1Dvr5uYAjhDnCPxpnboc3Xs6ZIV6CmeS1DKjrRWJKbXZ8SrVw X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Daniel, the "tone and voice" of Master Morya is totally different to what we read in The Mahatma Letters. If, as they claim, this is MM, then he has a new persona. Cass danielhcaldwell wrote: "The New Dispensation A Dawning New Day from the Great Central Sun! "In answer to the Ascended Masters El Morya and Saint Germain, the Cosmic Councils have released the Dispensation for The Temple of The Presence. At the present time, the Ascended Masters have anointed Monroe and Carolyn Shearer as Their Messengers to the outside world. As with their predecessors in this spiritual Office, Monroe and Carolyn have been preparing for this mission for several embodiments. After training separately in this lifetime, they were brought together in 1993 and received full Sponsorship from the Great White Brotherhood for their public service through The Temple of The Presence in 1995. The first public address (Dictation) from an Ascended Master was from Beloved Morya on May 8, 1995. The first Quarterly Conference was "The Daystar Festival" in July of 1996 in which each of the Seven Holy Kumaras spoke (six for the first time in a public release)." "Beloved Morya and Saint Germain are the principal Sponsors for The Temple of The Presence, together with the Lord Maha Chohan, Lord Maitreya, Gautama Buddha, and the Seven Holy Kumaras. The Messengers, Monroe and Carolyn Shearer, deliver Discourses and Dictations directly from the Masters who are Themselves present in Their Ascended Master Bodies. The Release of Light that takes place on these occasions surpasses all previous experience of those in attendance. Those who have been privileged to take part in the implementation of this new Dispensation have been blessed beyond measure by the Opportunity to work with the Great Ones and receive Their very Personal Instruction." Quoted from: http://www.templeofthepresence.org/temple.htm Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Wed Jan 11 04:59:06 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55170 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2006 12:59:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2006 12:59:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.65) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2006 12:59:05 -0000 Received: from [216.175.78.28] (helo=DALLAS) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EwfZ2-0003HU-VS; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 07:58:58 -0500 To: Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 04:58:39 -0800 Message-ID: <011401c616ae$c27a18a0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <20060111031334.96350.qmail@web52106.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79813f8b629b65b69a1df878417d4f63de350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.65 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: Theos-World RE: digest: January 08, 2006 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=DGm0ArJ3AXxnYEKYXRRR1pcBB_UjRJIc_zrTiVGldfbtOg X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1/11/2006 4:45 AM Dear Cass and Friends: I do not get the connection between the two quotes. Please help. HPB in the SECRET DOCTRINE offers this on SYMBOLOGY "The esoteric doctrine teaches, like Buddhism and Brahminism, and even the Kabala, that the one infinite and unknown Essence exists from all eternity, and in regular and harmonious successions is either passive or active. In the poetical phraseology of Manu these conditions are called the "Days" and the "Nights" of Brahma. The latter is either "awake" or "asleep." The Svabhavikas, or philosophers of the oldest school of Buddhism (which still exists in Nepal), speculate only upon the active condition of this "Essence," which they call Svabhavat, and deem it foolish to theorize upon the abstract and "unknowable" power in its passive condition. Hence they are called atheists by both Christian theologians and modern scientists, for neither of the two are able to understand the profound logic of their philosophy. The former will allow of no other God than the personified secondary powers which have worked out the visible universe, and which became with them the anthropomorphic God of the Christians - the male Jehovah, roaring amid thunder and lightning. . The Buddhists maintained that there is no Creator, but an infinitude of creative powers, which collectively form the one eternal substance, the essence of which is inscrutable - hence not a subject for speculation for any true philosopher. . Upon inaugurating an active period, says the SECRET DOCTRINE, an expansion of this Divine essence from without inwardly and from within outwardly, occurs in obedience to eternal and immutable law, and the phenomenal or visible universe is the ultimate result of the long chain of cosmical forces thus progressively set in motion. . To use a Metaphor from the Secret Books, which will convey the idea still more clearly, an out-breathing of the 'unknown essence' produces the world; and an inhalation causes it to disappear. This process has been going on from all eternity, and our present universe is but one of an infinite series, which had no beginning and will have no end." . This passage will be explained, as far as it is possible, in the present work. Though, as it now stands, it contains nothing new to the Orientalist, its esoteric interpretation may contain a good deal which has hitherto remained entirely unknown to the Western student. The first illustration being a plain disc the second one in the Archaic symbol shows , a disc with a point in it - the first differentiation in the periodical manifestations of the ever-eternal nature, sexless and infinite "Aditi in THAT" (Rig Veda), the point in the disc, or potential Space within abstract Space. In its third stage the point is transformed into a diameter, thus It now symbolises a divine immaculate Mother-Nature within the all-embracing absolute Infinitude. When the diameter line is crossed by a vertical one , it becomes the mundane cross. Humanity has reached its third root-race; it is the sign for the origin of human life to begin. When the circumference disappears and leaves only the it is a sign that the fall of man into matter is accomplished, and the FOURTH race begins. The Cross within a circle symbolises pure Pantheism; when the Cross was left uninscribed, it became phallic. It had the same and yet other meanings as a TAU inscribed within a circle or as a "Thor's hammer," the Jaina cross, so-called, or simply Svastica within a circle By the third symbol - the circle divided in two by the horizontal line of the diameter - the first manifestation of creative (still passive, because feminine) Nature was meant. The first shadowy perception of man connected with procreation is feminine, because man knows his mother more than his father. Hence female deities were more sacred than the male. Nature is therefore feminine, and, to a degree, objective and tangible, and the spirit Principle which fructifies it is concealed. By adding to the circle with the horizontal line in it, a perpendicular line, the tau was formed - - the oldest form of the letter. It was the glyph of the third root-race to the day of its symbolical Fall - i.e., when the separation of sexes by natural evolution took place - when the figure became , the circle, or sexless life modified or separated - a double glyph or symbol. With the races of our Fifth Race it became in symbology the sacr', and in Hebrew n'cabvah, of the first-formed races; * then it changed into the Egyptian (emblem of life), and still later into the sign of Venus, Then comes the Svastica (Thor's hammer, or the "Hermetic Cross" now), entirely separated from its Circle, thus becoming purely phallic. The esoteric symbol of Kali Yuga is the five-pointed star reversed, thus - the sign of human sorcery, with its two points (horns) turned heavenward, a position every Occultist will recognize as one of the "left-hand," and used in ceremonial magic. It is hoped that during the perusal of this work the erroneous ideas of the public in general with regard to Pantheism will be modified. It is wrong and unjust to regard the Buddhists and Advaitee Occultists as atheists. If not all of them philosophers, they are, at any rate, all logicians, their objections and arguments being based on strict reasoning. Indeed, if the Parabrahmam of the Hindus may be taken as a representative of the hidden and nameless deities of other nations, this absolute Principle will be found to be the prototype from which all the others were copied. PARABRAHM IS NOT "GOD," BECAUSE IT IS NOT A GOD. "It is that which is supreme, and not supreme (paravara)," explains Mandukya Upanishad (2.28). IT is "Supreme" as CAUSE, not supreme as effect. Parabrahm is simply, as a "Secondless Reality," the all-inclusive Kosmos - or, rather, the infinite Cosmic Space - in the highest spiritual sense, of course. . ---------------------------------------------------- * We are told by the Western mathematicians and some American Kabalists, that in the Kabala also "the value of the Jehovah name is that of the diameter of a circle." Add to this the fact that Jehovah is the third Sephiroth, Binah, a feminine word, and you have the key to the mystery. By certain Kabalistic transformations this name, androgynous in the first chapters of Genesis, becomes in its transformations entirely masculine, Cainite and phallic. The fact of choosing a deity among the pagan gods and making of it a special national God, to call upon it as the "One living God," the "God of Gods," and then proclaim this worship Monotheistic, does not change it into the ONE Principle whose "Unity admits not of multiplication, change, or form," especially in the case of a priapic deity, as Jehovah now demonstrated to be. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Parabrahm is, in short, the collective aggregate of Kosmos in its infinity and eternity, the "THAT" and "THIS" to which distributive aggregates can not be applied. "In the beginning THIS was the Self, one only" (Aitareya Upanishad); the great Sankaracharya, explains that "THIS" referred to the Universe (Jagat); the sense of the words, "In the beginning," meaning before the reproduction of the phenomenal Universe. Therefore, when the Pantheists echo the Upanishads, which state, as in the Secret Doctrine, that "this" cannot create, they do not deny a Creator, or rather a collective aggregate of creators, but only refuse, very logically, to attribute "creation" and especially formation, something finite to an Infinite Principle. With them, Parabrahmam is a passive because an Absolute Cause, the unconditioned Mukta. It is only limited Omniscience and Omnipotence that are refused to the latter, because these are still attributes (as reflected in man's perceptions); and because Parabrahm, being the "Supreme ALL," the ever invisible spirit and Soul of Nature, changeless and eternal, can have no attributes; absoluteness very naturally precluding any idea of the finite or conditioned from being connected with it. . The Occultists are, therefore, at one with the Adwaita Vedantin philosophers as to the above tenet. They show the impossibility of accepting on philosophical grounds the idea of the absolute ALL creating or even evolving the "Golden Egg," into which it is said to enter in order to transform itself into Brahma - the Creator, who expands himself later into gods and all the visible Universe. They say that Absolute Unity cannot pass to infinity; for infinity presupposes the limitless extension of something, and the duration of that "something"; and the One All is like Space - which is its only mental and physical representation on this Earth, or our plane of existence - neither an object of, nor a subject to, perception. If one could suppose the Eternal Infinite All, the Omnipresent Unity, instead of being in Eternity, becoming through periodical manifestation a manifold Universe or a multiple personality, that Unity would cease to be one. Locke's idea that "pure Space is capable of neither resistance nor Motion" - is incorrect. Space is neither a "limitless void," nor a "conditioned fulness," but both: being, on the plane of absolute abstraction, the ever-incognisable Deity, which is void only to finite minds,* and on that of mayavic perception, the Plenum, the absolute Container of all that is, whether manifested or unmanifested: it is, therefore, that ABSOLUTE ALL. "What is that which was, is, and will be, whether there is a Universe or not; whether there be gods or none?" asks the esoteric Senzar Catechism. And the answer made is - SPACE. S D I, pp. 3 - 8 ======================================== Dallas ========================================== -----Original Message----- From: C Silva Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 7:14 PM Was it Goethe that said, "once one truly commits, the whole universe conspires to assist you?" If we couple this with what Nietzsche says, it seems to me that it is the risk takers that benefit the most from existence. Cass =============================================== "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Dear B A Re: Friedrich Nietzsche, The Gay Science, section 283, wrote: "For believe me: the secret for harvesting from existence the greatest fruitfulness and greatest enjoyment is - to live dangerously. " Allow me to ask: But -- what constitutes "danger ?" Does not "existence" mean "to stand out ?" I wonder who or what "stands," and when it emerges, where is it ? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Wed Jan 11 05:21:13 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88192 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2006 13:21:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2006 13:21:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.65) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2006 13:21:13 -0000 Received: from [216.175.78.28] (helo=DALLAS) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EwfuT-0005fO-Ar; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 08:21:05 -0500 To: Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 05:20:52 -0800 Message-ID: <011f01c616b1$da9aac30$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <011401c616ae$c27a18a0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7984fa6676f2e8868a5e0dd28890801125350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.65 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: Additional notes on SYMBOLOGY : January 08, 2006 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=DtiykFOJg0g1vMtucLRGAeRTQPwadaMyPKFqsLePoAyYug X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/11/2006 5:15 AM Dear Friends: Additional notes on SYMBOLOGY=20 SIX-POINTED STAR=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D "The six-pointed Star refers to the six Forces or Powers of Nature, the six planes, principles, etc., etc., all synthesized by the seventh, or the central point in the Star. All these, the upper and lower hierarchies included, emanate from the "Heavenly or Celestial Virgin," the great mother in all religions, the Androgyne, the Sephira-Adam- Kadmon. In its Unity, primordial light is the seventh, or highest, principle, Daivi-prakriti, the light of the unmanifested Logos. But in its differentiation it becomes Fohat, or the "Seven Sons." The former is symbolized by the Central point in the double-Triangle; the latter by the hexagon itself, or the "six limbs" of the Microprosopus the Seventh being Malkuth, the "Bride" of the Christian Kabalists, or our Earth." THE SECRET DOCTRINE, I p. 216. INTERLACED TRIANGLES SYMBOL =96 Master on =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =93Does your B.T.S. know the meaning of the white and black interlaced triangles, of the Parent Society's seal that it has also adopted? Shall I explain? -- the double triangle viewed by the Jewish Kabalists as Solomon's Seal, is, as many of you doubtless know the Sri-antara of the archaic Aryan Temple, the "mystery of Mysteries," a geometrical synthesis of the whole occult doctrine.=20 The two interlaced triangles are the Buddhangums of Creation. They contain the "squaring of the circle," the "philosophical stone," the great problems of Life and Death, and -- the Mystery of Evil. The chela who can explain this sign from every one of its aspects -- is virtually an adept.=20 How is it then that the only one among you, who has come so near to unravelling the mystery is also the only one who got none of her ideas from books? Unconsciously she gives out -- to him who has the key -- the first syllable of the Ineffable name! Of course you know that the double-triangle -- the Satkiri Chakram of Vishnu -- or the six-pointed star, is the perfect seven. In all the old Sanskrit works -- Vedic and Tantrik -- you find the number 6 mentioned more often than the 7 -- this last figure, the central point being implied, for it is the germ of the six and their matrix. It is then thus . . .=20 [At this point in the original there is a rough drawing of the interlaced triangles inscribed in a circle. -- ED.] -- the central point standing for seventh, and the circle, the Mahakasha -= - endless space -- for the seventh Universal Principle. In one sense, both ar= e viewed as Avalokitesvara, for they are respectively the Macrocosm and the microcosm.=20 The interlaced triangles -- the upper pointing one -- is Wisdom concealed, and the downward pointing one -- Wisdom revealed (in the phenomenal world). The circle indicates the bounding, circumscribing quality of the All, the Universal Principle which, from any given point expands so as to embrace al= l things, while embodying the potentiality of every action in the Cosmos.=20 As the point then is the centre round which the circle is traced -- they ar= e identical and one, and though from the standpoint of Maya and Avidya -- (illusion and ignorance) -- one is separated from the other by the manifested triangle, the 3 sides of which represent the three gunas -- finite attributes. In symbology the central point is Jivatma (the 7th principle), and hence Avalokitesvara, the Kwan-Shai-yin, the manifested "Voice" (or Logos), the germ point of manifested activity; -- hence -- in the phraseology of the Christian Kabalists "the Son of the Father and Mother," and agreeably to ours -- "the Self manifested in Self -- Yih-sin, the "one form of existence," the child of Dharmakaya (the universally diffused Essence), both male and female.=20 Parabrahm or "Adi-Buddha" while acting through that germ point outwardly as an active force, reacts from the circumference inwardly as the Supreme but latent Potency.=20 The double triangles symbolize the Great Passive and the Great Active; the male and female; Purusha and Prakriti. Each triangle is a Trinity because presenting a triple aspect. The white represents in its straight lines: Gnanam -- (Knowledge); Gnata -- (the Knower); and Gnayam -- (that which is known). The black-form, colour, and substance, also the creative, preservative, and destructive forces and are mutually correlating, etc., etc.=20 Well may you admire and more should you wonder at the marvellous lucidity o= f that remarkable seeress, who ignorant of Sanskrit or Pali, and thus shut ou= t from their metaphysical treasures, has yet seen a great light shining from behind the dark bills of exoteric religions. How, think you, did ...come to know that Adonai was the Son and not the Father; or that the third Person o= f the Christian Trinity is -- female?=20 Verily, they lay in that work several times their hands upon the keystone o= f Occultism. Only does the lady -- who persists using without an explanation the misleading term "God" in her writings -- know how nearly she comes up t= o our doctrine when saying: -- "Having for Father, Spirit which is Life (the endless Circle or Parabrahm) and for Mother the Great Deep, which is Substance (Prakriti in its undifferentiated condition) -- Adonai possesses the potency of both and wields the dual powers of all things."=20 We would say triple, but in the sense as given this will do. Pythagoras had a reason for never using the finite, useless figure -- 2, and for altogethe= r discarding it.=20 The ONE, can, when manifesting, become only 3. The unmanifested when a simple duality remains passive and concealed. The dual monad (the 7th and 6th principles) has, in order to manifest itself as a Logos, the "Kwan-shai-yin" to first become a triad (7th, 6th and half of the 5th); then, on the bosom of the "Great Deep" attracting within itself the One Circle -- form out of it the perfect Square, thus "squaring the circle" -- the greatest of all the mysteries, friend -- and inscribing within the latter the -- WORD (the Ineffable name) -- otherwise the duality could neve= r tarry as such, and would have to be reabsorbed into the ONE. The "Deep" is Space -- both male and female. "Purush (as Brahma) breathes in the Eternity= : when 'he' in-breathes -- Prakriti (as manifested Substance) disappears in his bosom; when 'he' out-breathes she reappears as Maya," says the Sloka. The One reality is Mulaprakriti (undifferentiated Substance) -- the "Rootless root," the. . . MAHATMA LETTERS (Barker) , pp. 345-7 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: W.Dallas TenBroeck Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 4:59 AM To:=20 Subject: : digest: January 08, 2006 1/11/2006 4:45 AM =A0 Dear Cass and Friends: =A0 I do not get the connection between the two quotes.=A0 Please help. =A0 =A0 =A0 HPB in the SECRET DOCTRINE offers this on SYMBOLOGY =A0 ------------------------ From Drpsionic@aol.com Wed Jan 11 09:14:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22037 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2006 17:14:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2006 17:14:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO yahoogroups.com) (69.53.109.218) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2006 17:14:36 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:41:56 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Originating-IP: 69.53.109.218 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 2:11:20:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: thanks! X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=s9rfR7yBbi9epbnuRttiYgkNVWEAWb2uLuqSPlEb7D3Lt6gRxA X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please read the important document. +++ Attachment: No Virus found +++ MessageLabs AntiVirus - www.messagelabs.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Wed Jan 11 09:29:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38819 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2006 17:29:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2006 17:29:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.53) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2006 17:29:27 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2006 17:28:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2006 17:28:58 -0000 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 17:28:55 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.53 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: Theosophical Traditions & New Students of Theosophy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=EthlKha6f9ApoXxC-oKwlv_RCj8FA1_74WTxey8Ih6OZ60GOhSGtlbJJ X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Theosophical Traditions &=20 New Students of Theosophy=20 [Updated edition] See: http://blavatskyarchives.com/theosophicaltraditions.htm Daniel http://hpb.cc From Drpsionic@aol.com Wed Jan 11 10:16:54 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81541 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2006 18:16:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2006 18:16:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m17.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.207) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2006 18:16:54 -0000 Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.2e5.69610a (14374) for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:15:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2e5.69610a.30f6a542@aol.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:15:30 EST To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5021 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.138.207 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Possible virus warning X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=14cPeIOQ3RE3_V-khG5lS9IIZW57iUhZTDb8_GCH4ET-tSb8Vg X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I never use an address book so the Thanks message came from another computer, whose I have no idea. Chuck the Heretic _http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano_ (http://www.geocities.com/c_cosimano) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ringding@online.de Wed Jan 11 11:31:45 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75063 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2006 19:31:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jan 2006 19:31:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.186) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2006 19:31:43 -0000 Received: from [84.191.176.227] (helo=captain70e702a) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu6) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0ML29c-1Ewlh02pHR-0001Na; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 20:31:38 +0100 Message-ID: <003b01c616e5$d7661070$152ca8c0@captain70e702a> To: References: Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 20:32:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:d066391b47e67c594ae06bf3d758d7eb X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.186 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World Theosophical Traditions & New Students of Theosophy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=224426186; y=mfsQX_NNKKCqUP8WSHlvCtcLld0mxMUdc4HhhbAO6q3hZJBJsxICmyHsZg X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer Has the Pasadena TS also a succession line or why it is left out? Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: "danielhcaldwell" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 6:28 PM Subject: Theos-World Theosophical Traditions & New Students of Theosophy Theosophical Traditions & New Students of Theosophy [Updated edition] See: http://blavatskyarchives.com/theosophicaltraditions.htm Daniel http://hpb.cc From silva_cass@... Wed Jan 11 20:49:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@... X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44667 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2006 04:49:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jan 2006 04:49:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52104.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.107) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jan 2006 04:49:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 25732 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Jan 2006 04:49:21 -0000 Message-ID: <20060112044921.25730.qmail@...> Received: from [211.28.165.96] by web52104.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 20:49:21 PST Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 20:49:21 -0800 (PST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <011401c616ae$c27a18a0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.107 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: RE: Theos-World RE: digest: January 08, 2006 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=y8AzpIy5TUTHqAdruWpCN4f-UUkhMD2G6eLOJcBlXd8ASvSCxQ X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "once one truly commits, the whole universe conspires to assist you?" If we couple this with what Nietzsche says, it seems to me that it is the risk takers that benefit the most from existence. My thinking is that when one asks of oneself, "Who am I" or "What is my purpose" And an earnest commitment is made to learn the truth, then the Universe conspires by assisting us in providing a path of knowledge towards that goal. In my own case I was led to Theosophy and the Greek Myths to Plato. What ever question I held the book presented itself to me. Along the way the words of HPB would occasionally keep me on track eg, if the Neo-platonic school can provide a Plato, then the school is doing something right (excuse my interpretation). When one commences a search for knowledge, the outside world (the world of personalities)appears to conspire against us and does what it can to deter that search, including isolation, alienation, labelling, etc. It involves a great deal of psychological risk taking and a will ing ness to accept, a course which is totally opposite to the accepted norm. Courage, good humour and a belief in self, together with an uncompromising commitment to finding the truth seems to be the criteria for Neitzsche's claim that it is the risk takers than benefit most from existence. Cass "W.Dallas TenBroeck" wrote: 1/11/2006 4:45 AM Dear Cass and Friends: I do not get the connection between the two quotes. Please help. HPB in the SECRET DOCTRINE offers this on SYMBOLOGY "The esoteric doctrine teaches, like Buddhism and Brahminism, and even the Kabala, that the one infinite and unknown Essence exists from all eternity, and in regular and harmonious successions is either passive or active. In the poetical phraseology of Manu these conditions are called the "Days" and the "Nights" of Brahma. The latter is either "awake" or "asleep." The Svabhavikas, or philosophers of the oldest school of Buddhism (which still exists in Nepal), speculate only upon the active condition of this "Essence," which they call Svabhavat, and deem it foolish to theorize upon the abstract and "unknowable" power in its passive condition. Hence they are called atheists by both Christian theologians and modern scientists, for neither of the two are able to understand the profound logic of their philosophy. The former will allow of no other God than the personified secondary powers which have worked out the visible universe, and which became with them the anthropomorphic God of the Christians - the male Jehovah, roaring amid thunder and lightning. . The Buddhists maintained that there is no Creator, but an infinitude of creative powers, which collectively form the one eternal substance, the essence of which is inscrutable - hence not a subject for speculation for any true philosopher. . Upon inaugurating an active period, says the SECRET DOCTRINE, an expansion of this Divine essence from without inwardly and from within outwardly, occurs in obedience to eternal and immutable law, and the phenomenal or visible universe is the ultimate result of the long chain of cosmical forces thus progressively set in motion. . To use a Metaphor from the Secret Books, which will convey the idea still more clearly, an out-breathing of the 'unknown essence' produces the world; and an inhalation causes it to disappear. This process has been going on from all eternity, and our present universe is but one of an infinite series, which had no beginning and will have no end." . This passage will be explained, as far as it is possible, in the present work. Though, as it now stands, it contains nothing new to the Orientalist, its esoteric interpretation may contain a good deal which has hitherto remained entirely unknown to the Western student. The first illustration being a plain disc the second one in the Archaic symbol shows , a disc with a point in it - the first differentiation in the periodical manifestations of the ever-eternal nature, sexless and infinite "Aditi in THAT" (Rig Veda), the point in the disc, or potential Space within abstract Space. In its third stage the point is transformed into a diameter, thus It now symbolises a divine immaculate Mother-Nature within the all-embracing absolute Infinitude. When the diameter line is crossed by a vertical one , it becomes the mundane cross. Humanity has reached its third root-race; it is the sign for the origin of human life to begin. When the circumference disappears and leaves only the it is a sign that the fall of man into matter is accomplished, and the FOURTH race begins. The Cross within a circle symbolises pure Pantheism; when the Cross was left uninscribed, it became phallic. It had the same and yet other meanings as a TAU inscribed within a circle or as a "Thor's hammer," the Jaina cross, so-called, or simply Svastica within a circle By the third symbol - the circle divided in two by the horizontal line of the diameter - the first manifestation of creative (still passive, because feminine) Nature was meant. The first shadowy perception of man connected with procreation is feminine, because man knows his mother more than his father. Hence female deities were more sacred than the male. Nature is therefore feminine, and, to a degree, objective and tangible, and the spirit Principle which fructifies it is concealed. By adding to the circle with the horizontal line in it, a perpendicular line, the tau was formed - - the oldest form of the letter. It was the glyph of the third root-race to the day of its symbolical Fall - i.e., when the separation of sexes by natural evolution took place - when the figure became , the circle, or sexless life modified or separated - a double glyph or symbol. With the races of our Fifth Race it became in symbology the sacr', and in Hebrew n'cabvah, of the first-formed races; * then it changed into the Egyptian (emblem of life), and still later into the sign of Venus, Then comes the Svastica (Thor's hammer, or the "Hermetic Cross" now), entirely separated from its Circle, thus becoming purely phallic. The esoteric symbol of Kali Yuga is the five-pointed star reversed, thus - the sign of human sorcery, with its two points (horns) turned heavenward, a position every Occultist will recognize as one of the "left-hand," and used in ceremonial magic. It is hoped that during the perusal of this work the erroneous ideas of the public in general with regard to Pantheism will be modified. It is wrong and unjust to regard the Buddhists and Advaitee Occultists as atheists. If not all of them philosophers, they are, at any rate, all logicians, their objections and arguments being based on strict reasoning. Indeed, if the Parabrahmam of the Hindus may be taken as a representative of the hidden and nameless deities of other nations, this absolute Principle will be found to be the prototype from which all the others were copied. PARABRAHM IS NOT "GOD," BECAUSE IT IS NOT A GOD. "It is that which is supreme, and not supreme (paravara)," explains Mandukya Upanishad (2.28). IT is "Supreme" as CAUSE, not supreme as effect. Parabrahm is simply, as a "Secondless Reality," the all-inclusive Kosmos - or, rather, the infinite Cosmic Space - in the highest spiritual sense, of course. . ---------------------------------------------------- * We are told by the Western mathematicians and some American Kabalists, that in the Kabala also "the value of the Jehovah name is that of the diameter of a circle." Add to this the fact that Jehovah is the third Sephiroth, Binah, a feminine word, and you have the key to the mystery. By certain Kabalistic transformations this name, androgynous in the first chapters of Genesis, becomes in its transformations entirely masculine, Cainite and phallic. The fact of choosing a deity among the pagan gods and making of it a special national God, to call upon it as the "One living God," the "God of Gods," and then proclaim this worship Monotheistic, does not change it into the ONE Principle whose "Unity admits not of multiplication, change, or form," especially in the case of a priapic deity, as Jehovah now demonstrated to be. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Parabrahm is, in short, the collective aggregate of Kosmos in its infinity and eternity, the "THAT" and "THIS" to which distributive aggregates can not be applied. "In the beginning THIS was the Self, one only" (Aitareya Upanishad); the great Sankaracharya, explains that "THIS" referred to the Universe (Jagat); the sense of the words, "In the beginning," meaning before the reproduction of the phenomenal Universe. Therefore, when the Pantheists echo the Upanishads, which state, as in the Secret Doctrine, that "this" cannot create, they do not deny a Creator, or rather a collective aggregate of creators, but only refuse, very logically, to attribute "creation" and especially formation, something finite to an Infinite Principle. With them, Parabrahmam is a passive because an Absolute Cause, the unconditioned Mukta. It is only limited Omniscience and Omnipotence that are refused to the latter, because these are still attributes (as reflected in man's perceptions); and because Parabrahm, being the "Supreme ALL," the ever invisible spirit and Soul of Nature, changeless and eternal, can have no attributes; absoluteness very naturally precluding any idea of the finite or conditioned from being connected with it. . The Occultists are, therefore, at one with the Adwaita Vedantin philosophers as to the above tenet. They show the impossibility of accepting on philosophical grounds the idea of the absolute ALL creating or even evolving the "Golden Egg," into which it is said to enter in order to transform itself into Brahma - the Creator, who expands himself later into gods and all the visible Universe. They say that Absolute Unity cannot pass to infinity; for infinity presupposes the limitless extension of something, and the duration of that "something"; and the One All is like Space - which is its only mental and physical representation on this Earth, or our plane of existence - neither an object of, nor a subject to, perception. If one could suppose the Eternal Infinite All, the Omnipresent Unity, instead of being in Eternity, becoming through periodical manifestation a manifold Universe or a multiple personality, that Unity would cease to be one. Locke's idea that "pure Space is capable of neither resistance nor Motion" - is incorrect. Space is neither a "limitless void," nor a "conditioned fulness," but both: being, on the plane of absolute abstraction, the ever-incognisable Deity, which is void only to finite minds,* and on that of mayavic perception, the Plenum, the absolute Container of all that is, whether manifested or unmanifested: it is, therefore, that ABSOLUTE ALL. "What is that which was, is, and will be, whether there is a Universe or not; whether there be gods or none?" asks the esoteric Senzar Catechism. And the answer made is - SPACE. S D I, pp. 3 - 8 ======================================== Dallas ========================================== -----Original Message----- From: C Silva Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 7:14 PM Was it Goethe that said, "once one truly commits, the whole universe conspires to assist you?" If we couple this with what Nietzsche says, it seems to me that it is the risk takers that benefit the most from existence. Cass =============================================== "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Dear B A Re: Friedrich Nietzsche, The Gay Science, section 283, wrote: "For believe me: the secret for harvesting from existence the greatest fruitfulness and greatest enjoyment is - to live dangerously. " Allow me to ask: But -- what constitutes "danger ?" Does not "existence" mean "to stand out ?" I wonder who or what "stands," and when it emerges, where is it ? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Wed Jan 11 21:19:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13209 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2006 05:17:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jan 2006 05:17:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.56) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jan 2006 05:17:00 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jan 2006 05:16:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jan 2006 05:16:52 -0000 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 05:16:51 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.56 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 211.28.165.96 From: "Kathy" Subject: Milky Way X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=xLp8SZfkk4IwIayzfCbxaAVUOeYXS7ZDR3xJI6NsIrobuTAOiA X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass I have just received this from another group and I was wondering=20 anyone would have an explanation for this? Cass Sloan Digital Sky Survey Reveals A New Milky Way Neighbor (Sloan Digital Sky Survey, 1/9/2006) A huge but very faint structure, containing hundreds of thousands of stars spread over an area nearly 5,000 times the size of a full moon, has been discovered and mapped by astronomers of the Sloan Digital Sky Survey (SDSS-II). At an estimated distance of 30,000 light years (10 kiloparsecs) from Earth, the structure lies well within the confines of the Milky Way Galaxy. However, it does not follow any of Milky Way's three main components: a flattened disk of stars in which the sun resides, a bulge of stars at the center of the Galaxy and an extended, roughly spherical, stellar halo. Instead, the researchers believe that the most likely interpretation of the new structure is a dwarf galaxy that is merging into the Milky Way. From dalval14@earthlink.net Thu Jan 12 02:59:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27614 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2006 10:59:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jan 2006 10:59:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.67) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jan 2006 10:59:43 -0000 Received: from [216.175.82.39] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Ex0AE-0008D0-Br; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 05:58:42 -0500 To: Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 02:58:25 -0800 Message-ID: <002801c61767$21cf9380$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High In-Reply-To: X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7953a4bdc0cd44344428265537f1bade8c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.67 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: [bn-study] Re: Science vs. Theosophy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=GZfWpG8MtT930s_6d-CunlVGhxEQ2OK-LVyQcAYHyHBX_A X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/12/2006 2:54 AM Dear C and Friends Have a look at this -- on the subject of thought -- mind -- brain http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S13/52/87Q72/index.xml Sounds most interesting Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 -----Original Message----- From: christine M=20 Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 1:13 PM To:=20 Subject: Re: Science vs. Theosophy January 10, 2006 Dear Leon: In reply to your e-mail of January 9, 2006, concerning a counter argument=20 refuting a scientist claiming the "brain thinks," the question arises=20 whether this opinion would be better served if further explanation was give= n explaining the basis for the disagreement. In other words, is your opinion= =20 based on an idea that the brain thinks independently of the rest of the=20 anatomy? In what context are you basing your opinion? Sincerely, Christine From dalval14@earthlink.net Thu Jan 12 03:15:33 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41856 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2006 11:15:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jan 2006 11:15:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.67) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jan 2006 11:15:33 -0000 Received: from [216.175.82.39] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Ex0Oz-0004DZ-J3; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 06:13:57 -0500 To: Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 03:13:40 -0800 Message-ID: <002b01c61769$4352e9b0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High In-Reply-To: X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79b7da0ed7cd569ebf9e8daaaaac8a8ee9350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.67 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: [bn-study] Re: LORD'S PRAYER OM X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=K8kICcijOnB9NaNEljnck3d4xAzjOsbpubWs3AfcXVUDsg X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/12/2006 3:00 AM Dear Pundit and Friends: As I understand it, every act, word, etc... (volition) starts with a MOTIVE . The motive is either selfish (pap) or unselfish (punya).=20=20 This means that the Karma that follows any choice we make is either in accordance with the Law of Nature (UNIVERSE) -- i.e..: it is "good," or, i= f it contravenes fairness, justice and honesty to anyone or for any reason, i= t is "bad" Karma. We are "yoked" to the Karma we create by our choices (motives).=20=20 If this is correct, then, we are now living in a situation which is the result of our own past choices.=20 "Body yoga" is also commonly called "Hatha Yoga." [elephant yoga ? ] Best wishes, Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 -----Original Message----- From: Pundit Sunil Dev=20 Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 8:39 AM To:=20 Subject: YOGA AND Re: LORD'S PRAYER -- OM My understanding of Yoga is "to yoke".=20=20 This "yoking" is between the body, mind, soul, oversoul, and supersoul. = =20 These need to be in-sync for proper duties of Karam.=20=20 Without these Karam falls in the negative, thus sinning starts, purity is lost.=20=20 Body Yoga (physical yoking?) I am not sure what this means. Pundit Sunil Dev (Sanskaar Shastri) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Gopi Chari"=20 This is the best alert. The words control, develop, improve are applicable only to the body yoga. This is an important part of yoga. Gopi From bartl@sprynet.com Thu Jan 12 07:57:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26782 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2006 15:57:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Jan 2006 15:57:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.66) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jan 2006 15:57:34 -0000 Received: from [151.198.115.250] (helo=sprynet.com) by smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Ex4mO-0000lX-QD for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 10:54:25 -0500 Message-ID: <43C67BB6.2050900@sprynet.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 10:54:30 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: <003b01c616e5$d7661070$152ca8c0@captain70e702a> In-Reply-To: <003b01c616e5$d7661070$152ca8c0@captain70e702a> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: 5be619ec394aa49c25eb773df4b61cba578c5bcce67cd0255ee1562918ecdd1e4e508857176a6fc1350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.66 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Theos-World Theosophical Traditions & New Students of Theosophy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=690370; y=z2OT4a-EBxZV93CoXgKrIYMPrF-XChP--fOmMdRpWZw3c2A X-Yahoo-Profile: bml07646 Frank Reitemeyer wrote: > Has the Pasadena TS also a succession line or > why it is left out? Isn't Pasadena a remnant of the Point Loma group (which is mentioned)? Bart From mkr777@gmail.com Thu Jan 12 21:39:03 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85213 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2006 05:39:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jan 2006 05:39:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO uproxy.gmail.com) (66.249.92.198) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jan 2006 05:39:02 -0000 Received: by uproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u40so136125ugc for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 21:32:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.48.43.4 with SMTP id q4mr41786nfq; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 21:32:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.48.47.13 with HTTP; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 21:32:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 23:32:51 -0600 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, theos-l@list.vnet.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 66.249.92.198 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: New Wisdom University X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here is an interesting item I ran into at www.newwisdomuniversity.org:. *"New Wisdom University is dedicated to the dissemination of the New Wisdom through courses, seminars, workshops, publications, and public presentations. A mystery school sponsored by Kuthumi (also known as Koot Humi)=97one of the founders of the Theosophical Society=97the university op= ened its doors on May 1, 2003."* I imagine the institution may be awarding degrees such as masters and phd and so on .... and we can all become wise (at a nominal expense in US$) as well as show off to the world and our brothers and sisters the level of wisdom with impressive titles like some of our brother/sister theosophists in theosophical organizations. mkr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Thu Jan 12 22:13:40 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64819 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2006 06:13:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jan 2006 06:13:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m20.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.1) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jan 2006 06:13:39 -0000 Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.247.523c4b8 (3924) for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 01:13:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <247.523c4b8.30f89efc@aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 01:13:16 EST To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5021 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.1 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World New Wisdom University X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=EBBJpPvqIi-S8WkRwCGjdRYD4f3Qp6y1kYN-8tfT7cn8p3Pptg X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/12/2006 11:39:31 PM Central Standard Time, mkr777@gmail.com writes: I imagine the institution may be awarding degrees such as masters and phd and so on .... and we can all become wise (at a nominal expense in US$) as well as show off to the world and our brothers and sisters the level of wisdom with impressive titles like some of our brother/sister theosophists in theosophical organizations Does that mean that we can all be MT's (Masters of Theosophy)? Chuck the Heretic [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Fri Jan 13 03:17:42 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38281 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2006 11:17:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jan 2006 11:17:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.67) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jan 2006 11:17:39 -0000 Received: from [216.175.82.39] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1ExMvQ-00026K-Aj; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:16:56 -0500 To: Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 03:16:41 -0800 Message-ID: <005301c61832$d82199f0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High In-Reply-To: <247.523c4b8.30f89efc@aol.com> X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79ee63c022e7c988c42df291cbc4b18ab5350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.67 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: New Wisdom University X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=vcxX8sTeuzZIplfYRSQzAY--v0ny4IK2Wk-uQ3JEoB8Iwg X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/13/2006 3:08 AM Re: New Wisdom University Dear Friends: If it is "Wisdom" it has no date restricting it.=20=20 It has to be as old as the UNIVERSE -- In fact wisdom relates to the law o= f Karma as applied continually and forever.=20 So the designation "New" is a curious one. What does it imply, Please ? Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 -----Original Message----- From: Drpsionic Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 10:13 PM To:=20 Subject: Re: New Wisdom University =20 In a message dated 1/12/2006 11:39:31 PM Central Standard Time,=20=20 mkr777@gmail.com writes: I imagine the institution may be awarding degrees such as masters and phd and so on .... and we can all become wise (at a nominal expense in US$) as well as show off to the world and our brothers and sisters the level of wisdom with impressive titles like some of our brother/sister theosophists in theosophical organizations Does that mean that we can all be MT's (Masters of Theosophy)? =20 Chuck the Heretic [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20 From dalval14@earthlink.net Fri Jan 13 03:39:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40171 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2006 11:39:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jan 2006 11:39:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.67) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jan 2006 11:39:27 -0000 Received: from [216.175.82.39] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1ExNH6-0008Oh-Lm; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:39:20 -0500 To: Cc: Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 03:39:06 -0800 Message-ID: <005801c61835$f97f4a40$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High In-Reply-To: <2a7006300601121727g2e93a43axecbff1b9dc5141c7@mail.gmail.com> X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79d9ab8571b7081d3b4004e27d01f9f880350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.67 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: re giant skeleton X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=PTvUFZt05ZjFI2rIXwKyfSwzYNI0w31h_OS6T6qpEd_bFw X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/13/2006 3:36 AM Odin Is it this ? --------------------------------------------- RE: Evidence Of Petrified Giant Remains From Atlantis? References to research Around 1922 and on to about 1926 reports came in of the discovery of calcified (petrified) remains of three giant humans. They were at the bottom of the Havasupai canyon a branch of the Grand Canyon in Arizona. Photographs and details were taken and preserved in San Francisco and in Washington in the archives of the Dept. of Geology. The Professor of Geology and anthropology at the University of California San Francisco, Dr Hubbard and another Mr. Osborn did the discovering, investigating and measuring. I found in old issues of THEOSOPHY Magazine [Vols 11, 12, 13, 14, 16, 17, and 34 references to these. 1923-46. ] The discovery was interrupted and then terminated by a large landslide in the canyon that obliterated the area. It was massive and too large to try to remove. But the reports and photographs exist in the archives of both institutions. Apparently the man-figure was about 27 feet long, the woman-figure about 24, and the child was about 18 feet long. The petrified figures were exposed on a ledge near the bottom of the canyon and were partly buried inside the material of the wall of the canyon above. My father had pictures of these and I saw those when I was about 18. Those pictures are still on file with the University and the Govt. as far as I know. I have also heard of the footprints in Carson City, and I seem to recall a recent issue of NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC Magazine that reproduced them or some others similar to those, probably in the last 10 years. [ see S D II 755 ] The reference is to Dr. Hubbard's discoveries and the photographs and details are at 2 places: 1 at the archives of the Geology Dept. University of California in San Francisco and 2 at the archives of the Dept. of Geology in Washington D C [ also LIBRARY OF CONGRESS ] I also gave reference to THEOSOPHY Magazine volumes. Here are the page numbers if someone is interested in reading and tracing these down. THEOSOPHY Magazine Dr. Hubbard Dr. Osborn ------------------------- ----------------------- Vol. 11, pp. 386, 526 Osborn p. 191 12 377 13 281, 360, 402-3 Osborn p. 567 14 380 16 . . Osborn p. 236 17 235-7, 777-8 25 138-9 34 357, 439, 35 184 37 38, 55 313 also S D II 9, 154, 224, 276-8, 293, 335-8, 340-1, 345-8, 365, 409, 752-3, 755, Isis U I p. 120, 304, LUCIFER Magazine v. 10, p. 358 13, 91 7 436 ============================ DTB Get and read a copy of FORBIDDEN ARCHAEOLOGY - by Michael Cremo and Thompson Published a few years ago in San Diego. (1993) Also a 2nd volume (1998) recording the responses to that book is also available. It shows Scientific responses ================================ Dallas -----Original Message----- From: Odin Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 5:28 PM To: Jonathan Subject: Re: giant skeleton Dear Jonathan, Thanks for the photo essay, you are right--quite amazing! There was no criticism implied of you personally-- one just gets fed up with all the bogus marketing schemes circulating the Internet these days. You have always been straight forward. Here's a hint in return --maybe you already have heard of it. A story circulated in Theosophical circles years ago about a giant human skeleton fossil that had been found and suppressed. It was supposed to have been seen on a high wall somewhere in the Grand Canyon. I'll try to dig up some more particulars for you. Or--which is likely--you already have some information, I which case, please let us know!! Thanks again. Sincerely, Odin ====================================== On 1/12/06, Jonathan wrote: Hello Odin, Good to hear from you. In an email straight after this I shall send you a few pictures. You can have these for free. Writing a detailed book costs months of research, time and money. Meranwhile we have to pay bills and keep supporting a family. The cost of the book is cheap by comparison. May this 2006 be your best year ever. Jonathan Gray From ringding@online.de Fri Jan 13 04:01:03 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19105 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2006 12:01:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jan 2006 12:01:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.177) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jan 2006 12:01:02 -0000 Received: from [84.191.176.29] (helo=captain70e702a) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu8) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0ML2ov-1ExNc53wX0-0002GC; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:01:02 +0100 Message-ID: <005401c61839$3edbc2f0$152ca8c0@captain70e702a> To: References: Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:02:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:d066391b47e67c594ae06bf3d758d7eb X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.177 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World New Wisdom University X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=224426186; y=DMMipfsZ9hCi3kv7hFpqkF7NCYdJHH_NLKahBeqC0xpWPn9sF9Wg16_6SA X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer Curiously enough, at one time - around 1929/30, if I remember right - the Point Loma University and Mystery School issued Theosophical degrees and diplomas. You could have been a "Minister of Divinity" or a "Master of Theosophy". Gottfried de Purucker's doctor title was from that University, if I remember right. The Point Loma University had a high and serious standing among the state Universities and they liked to take over former Point Loma students. GdeP dropped the degrees, when upon his Fraternization Movement the co-operation with the Adyar TS increased, in order not to trouble them. Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: "M K Ramadoss" To: ; Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 6:32 AM Subject: Theos-World New Wisdom University Here is an interesting item I ran into at www.newwisdomuniversity.org:. *"New Wisdom University is dedicated to the dissemination of the New Wisdom through courses, seminars, workshops, publications, and public presentations. A mystery school sponsored by Kuthumi (also known as Koot Humi)-one of the founders of the Theosophical Society-the university opened its doors on May 1, 2003."* I imagine the institution may be awarding degrees such as masters and phd and so on .... and we can all become wise (at a nominal expense in US$) as well as show off to the world and our brothers and sisters the level of wisdom with impressive titles like some of our brother/sister theosophists in theosophical organizations. mkr From ringding@online.de Fri Jan 13 04:06:52 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27357 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2006 12:06:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jan 2006 12:06:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.183) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jan 2006 12:06:51 -0000 Received: from [84.191.176.29] (helo=captain70e702a) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu2) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKwtQ-1ExNhc46bM-0002Qo; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:06:45 +0100 Message-ID: <005701c6183a$0b038e30$152ca8c0@captain70e702a> To: References: <003b01c616e5$d7661070$152ca8c0@captain70e702a> <43C67BB6.2050900@sprynet.com> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:08:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:d066391b47e67c594ae06bf3d758d7eb X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.183 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World Theosophical Traditions & New Students of Theosophy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=224426186; y=peUYjtzn8Pgiiw3P1Q52CvFIlB0WPmS7foFu-DCobPoc7JrOo3BITD1QQg X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer >Isn't Pasadena a remnant of the Point Loma >group (which is mentioned)? Yes, a remnant of the physical Point Loma after the Conger/Long conspiracy in Covina in 1946. But not identical with the spiritual Point Loma and the spirit of HPB and the Blavatsky Tradition. When the Conger/Long/Knoche remnants launched the Pasadena TS around 1973, the independent Point Loma groups in USA, The Netherlands, Germany etc. did NOT join this new TS for spiritual purposes. An allegory may be the Adyar TS which Annie Besant founded in 1905, which is not identical with the Bombay/Adyar TS HPB founded in 1880. Frank From dalval14@earthlink.net Fri Jan 13 04:12:23 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10404 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2006 12:12:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jan 2006 12:12:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.67) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jan 2006 12:12:23 -0000 Received: from [216.175.82.39] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1ExNmt-00038e-9l; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 07:12:12 -0500 To: Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 04:11:56 -0800 Message-ID: <005e01c6183a$8fde05e0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High In-Reply-To: X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec796f9863eb477d2a93bb49cafa81adfee6350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.67 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: [bn-study] Re: REINCARNATION X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=lNRmylmSX4Zwd9Oo8nyCV-iGNjvKHzii7xEq3sKRLQiD1w X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/13/2006 3:56 AM Dear Friend: Re: Reincarnation -- Karma -- DEITY EVIDENCE FOR REINCARNATION "It has been suggested ... that theosophists jot down as they occur any arguments hit upon to support the doctrine of reincarnation.=20 One furnishes this:=20 That the persistency of individual character and attitude of mind seems a strong argument; and adduces the fact that when he was a youth thirty years ago he wrote a letter to himself upon questions about God, nature, and the inner man, and finds now upon re-reading it that it almost exactly expresse= s his present attitude. Also he thinks that the inner character of each shows itself in early youth, persisting through life; and as each character is different there must have been reincarnation to account for the differences= . And that the assertion that differences in character are due to heredity seems to be disposed of by the persistency of essential character, even if, as we know to be the case, scientists did not begin to deny the sufficiency of heredity to account for our differences. Another writes:=20 If heredity would account for that which, existing in our life, makes us feel that we have lived here before, then the breeding of dogs and horses would show similar great differences as are observed in men. But a high-bre= d slut will bring forth a litter of pups by a father of equal breed, all exhibiting one character, whereas in the very highest bred families among men it is well known that the children will differ from each other so much that we cannot rely upon the result. Then again, considering the objections raised on ground of heredity, it should not be forgotten that but small attention has been paid to those cases where heredity will not give the explanation. Inherent differences of character.=20 The great differences in capacity seem to call for reincarnation as the explanation. Notice that the savages have the same brains and bodies as ours, yet not the same character or intelligence; they seem to be unprogressed egos who are unable to make the machine of brain to respond to its highest limit." [Path, August. 1891} REINCARNATION AND MANAS THE REINCARNATOR The mystery about reincarnation -- as to whether it is a fact or not, revolves around our understanding of the nature and the powers of the Mind (Manas). Ordinarily the Mind is thought to be immaterial, or to be merely the name for brain-action, in evolving thought. Thinking is still a process wholly unknown other than by inference. Yet it is also held that if there is no brain, there can be no mind. A good deal of attention has been paid to cataloging some mental functions and attributes, but the terms in our language are absent to describe metaphysical and spiritual facts about man= . The reaction against religion in the West, prevented science from taking anything but a materialistic view of man and nature.=20 THE HIGHER MAN Theosophy states the fifth principle is Manas, translated Mind. Other names may have been given to it, but it is the Knower, The Perceiver, The Thinker= . The sixth principle is Buddhi, or spiritual discernment; the seventh is Atma, or Spirit -- the ray from the Absolute Being. English as a language, may suffice to describe in part what Manas is, but not Buddhi, or Atma, an= d will leave many things relating to Manas undescribed.=20 THE LOWER MAN The course of evolution developed the four lower principles (Desire, Life-energy, Astral and Physical bodies) and produced at last, the form of man with a brain of better and deeper capacity than that of any other animal.=20 This man in form was not man in mind, and needed the fifth principle, the thinking, perceiving one, to differentiate him from the animal kingdom and to confer the power of becoming Self-Conscious. The Monad (Atma-Buddhi) was imprisoned in these forms, for without the presence of the Monad evolution could not go forward.=20 THE LIGHTING-UP OF THE MIND Going back for a moment to the time when mankind was devoid of mind, the question arises, "who gave the mind, where did it come from, and what is it?" It is the link between the Spirit of God above and the personal below. It was given to the mindless Monads by others who had gone through this process ages upon ages before in other worlds, and it therefore came from older evolutionary periods which had been carried out and completed long before the solar system began. This is the strange theory which must be stated if we are to tell the truth about Theosophy; and this is only handin= g on what others have said before.=20 The manner in which this Light Of Mind was given to the Mindless Men can be understood from the illustration of one candle lighting many. Given one lighted candle and numerous unlighted ones, it follows that from one light the others may also be set aflame. So in the case of Manas. It is the candl= e of flame. The mindless men having four elementary principles of Body, Astral Body, Life and Desire, are the unlighted candles that cannot light themselves.=20 MIND IS A GIFT FROM OUR ELDER BROTHERS -- THE WISE The "Sons of Wisdom," who are the Elder Brothers of the family of men on an= y globe, have the Mind-light. It was derived by them from others -- their "Elders," who reach back, and yet farther back, in endless procession with no beginning or end. They set fire to the combined lower principles and the Monad, thus lighting up Manas in the new men. And from there began the preparing of another great race for final initiation.=20 This lighting up of the fire of Manas is symbolized in all great religions and Freemasonry. In the East a priest appears holding a candle lighted at the altar, and thousands of others come to him in a procession, to light their candles from this one.=20 MANAS THE IMMORTAL THINKER REINCARNATES Manas, or the Thinker, is the reincarnating being. It is the immortal who carries the results and values of all the different lives lived on earth or elsewhere.=20 MIND BECOMES DUAL IN THE PHYSICAL MAN Its nature becomes dual as soon as it is attached to a body. For the human Brain is a superior organism, and Manas uses it to reason from premises to conclusions. This also differentiates man from animal, for the animal acts from automatic, the so-called instinctual impulses. Whereas the man, can us= e Reason. This is the lower aspect of the Thinker or Manas, and not, as some have supposed, the highest and best gift belonging to man.=20 Its other, and in Theosophy higher, aspect, is the intuitional, which knows= , and does not depend on reason. It is Manas allied to Buddhi -- spiritual discrimination and Wisdom. The lower, and purely intellectual, is nearest to the principle of Desire, and is thus distinguished from its other side which has affinity for the spiritual principles (Buddhi and Atma, above. If the Thinker, becomes wholly intellectual, the entire nature begins to trend downward; for intellect alone is cold, heartless, selfish, because it is no= t lighted up by the two other principles of universality and immortality: Buddhi and Atma.=20 MANAS-MIND STORES ALL THOUGHTS In Manas the thoughts of all lives are stored. That is to say: in any one life, the sum total of thoughts underlying all the acts of the life-time will be of one character in general, but may be placed in one or more classes. That is, the business man of today is a single type; his entire life thoughts represent but one single thread of thought. The artist is another. The man who has engaged in business, but also thought much upon fame and power which he never attained, is still another.=20 The great mass of self-sacrificing, courageous, and strong, poor people who have but little time to think, constitute another distinct class. In all these, the total quantity of life thoughts makes up the stream or thread of a "life's meditation" -- "that upon which the heart was set" -- and those are stored in immortal Manas. All those will be brought out again at any time in whatever life the brain and bodily environments are similar to thos= e used in engendering that class of thoughts.=20 PERCEPTION BY THE MIND It is Manas which sees the objects presented to it by the bodily organs and the actual organs (which are seated in the Astral body) within. When the open eye receives a picture on the retina, the whole scene is turned into vibrations in the optic nerves which disappear into the brain, and there Manas is enabled to perceive them as idea. And so with every other organ or sense. If the connection between Manas and the brain be broken, intelligenc= e will not be manifested unless Manas has by training found out how to projec= t the astral body out and away from the physical, and thereby keep up communication with fellow men.=20 OUR ORGANS OF PERCEPTION ARE TOOLS FOR THE MIND That the organs and senses do not cognize objects, hypnotism, mesmerism, an= d spiritualism have now proved. For, as we see in mesmeric and hypnotic experiments, the object seen or felt, and from which, all the effects of solid objects may be sensed, is often only an idea existing in the operator's brain. In hypnotism there are many experiments, all of which go to show that so called matter is not per se solid or dense; that sight does not always depend on the eye and rays of light proceeding from an object; that the intangible for one normal brain and organs, may be perfectly tangible for another; and that physical effects in the body may be produced solely from an idea.=20 The well-known experiments of producing a blister by a simple piece of paper, or preventing a real blistering plaster from making a blister, by force of the idea conveyed to a subject, either that there was to be or not to be a blister, conclusively prove the power of effecting an impulse on matter by the use of that which is called Mind (Manas). But all these phenomena are the exhibition of the powers of Lower Manas acting in the astral Body and the fourth principle -- Desire, using the physical body as the field for the exhibition of the forces. LOWER MANAS AND ITS POWERS It is this Lower Manas which retains all the impressions of a life-time and sometimes strangely exhibits them in trances or dreams, delirium, induced states, here and there in normal conditions, and very often at the time of physical death. But it is so occupied with the brain, with memory and with sensation, that it usually presents but few recollections out of the mass o= f events that years have brought before it.=20 It interferes with the action of Higher Manas because just at the present point of evolution, Desire and all corresponding powers, faculties, and senses are the most highly developed, thus obscuring, as it were, the white light of the spiritual side of Manas. It (Lower Manas) is tinted by each object presented to it, whether it be a thought-object or a material one. That is to say, Lower Manas operating through the brain is at once altered into the shape and other characteristics of any object, mental or otherwise= . This causes it to have four peculiarities.=20 . First, to naturally fly off and away from a selected point, object, or subject;=20 .=09 . Second, to fly to some pleasant idea;=20 .=09 . Third, to fly to an unpleasant idea;=20 .=09 . Fourth, to remain passive and considering nothing. .=09 The first is due to memory and the natural motion of Manas; the second and third are due to memory alone; the fourth signifies sleep when not abnormal= . And when abnormal is trending toward insanity.=20 HIGHER MANAS AND ITS WORK These mental characteristics all belonging to Lower Manas. It is these which the Higher Manas, aided by Buddhi and Atma, has to fight and conquer. Higher Manas, if able to act, becomes what we sometimes call Genius. If completely master, then one may become a god. But memory continually presents pictures to Lower Manas, and the result is that the Higher is obscured. Sometimes, however, along the pathway of life we do see here and there men who are geniuses or great seers and prophets. In these the Higher powers of Manas are active, and the person is illuminated. Such were the great Sages of the past, men like Buddha, Jesus, Confucius, Zoroaster, and others. Poets, too, such as Tennyson, Longfellow, and others, are men in whom Higher Manas now and then sheds a bright ray on the man below, to be soon obscured, however, by the effect of dogmatic religious education which has given memory certain pictures that always prevent Manas from gaining full activity.=20 In this higher Trinity, we have the God above each one; this is Atma, (the 7th principle) and may be called the Higher Self. Next, (the sixth) is the spiritual part of the soul called Buddhi; when thoroughly united with Manas (the fifth) this may be called the Divine Ego, or the Spiritual Soul.=20 THE REINCARNATING SELF IS AN IMMORTAL The inner Ego (Manas), who reincarnates, taking on body after body, storing up the impressions of life after life, gaining experience and adding it to the Divine Ego, suffering and enjoying through an immense period of years, is the fifth principle -- Manas -- not united to Buddhi.=20 This is the permanent individuality which gives to every man the feeling of being himself and not some other; that which through all the changes of the days and nights from youth to the end of life makes us feel one identity through all the period; it bridges the gap made by sleep; in like manner it bridges the gap made by the sleep of death. It is this, and not our brain, that lifts us above the animal.=20 The depth and variety of the brain convolutions in man are caused by the presence of Manas, and are not the cause of mind. And when we either wholly= , or now and then, become consciously united with Buddhi, the Spiritual Soul, we "behold God," as it were. This is what the ancients all desired to see, but what the moderns do not believe in, the latter preferring rather to throw away their own right to be great in nature, and to worship an imaginary god, made up solely of their own fancies, and not very different from weak human nature.=20 DUTY AND WORK OF THE REINCARNATING MIND-MANAS This permanent individuality in our present race has therefore been through every sort of experience, for Theosophy insists on its permanence and in th= e necessity for its continuing to take part in evolution. It has a duty to perform, consisting in raising up to a higher state all the matter concerne= d in the chain of globes to which the earth belongs.=20 We have all lived and taken part in civilization after civilization, race after race, on earth, and will so continue throughout all the Rounds and Races until the seventh is complete. At the same time it should be remembered that the matter of this globe, connected with it, has also been through every kind of form, with possibly some exceptions in very low plane= s of mineral formation.=20 But in general all the matter visible, or held in space still unprecipitated, has been molded at one time or another into forms of all varieties, many of these being such as we now have no idea of. The processe= s of evolution, therefore, in some departments, now go forward with greater rapidity than in former ages because both Manas and matter have acquired facility of action.=20 Especially is this so in regard to man, who is the farthest ahead of all things or beings in this evolution. He is now incarnated and projected into life more quickly than in earlier periods when it consumed many years to obtain a "coat of skin." This coming into life over and over again cannot b= e avoided by the ordinary man because Lower Manas is still bound by Desire, which is the preponderating principle at the present period. Being so very influenced by Desire, Manas is continually deluded while in the body, and being thus deluded is unable to prevent the action upon it of the forces se= t up in the life time.=20 These forces are generated by Manas, that is, by the thinking of a whole life time. Each thought makes a physical as well as mental link with the Desire in which it is rooted. All life is filled with such thoughts, and when the period of rest after death is ended, Manas is bound by innumerable electrical magnetic threads to earth by reason of the thoughts of the last life, and therefore by desire, for it was desire that caused so many thoughts and ignorance of the true nature of things. This is called by the Hindu philosophies "maya." (illusion). An understanding of this doctrine of man being really a thinker and made of thought, will make clear all the rest in relation to incarnation and reincarnation.=20 The body of the inner man is made of thought, and this being so it must follow that if the thoughts have more affinity for earth-life than for life elsewhere a return to life here is inevitable.=20 At the present day Manas is not fully active in the race, as Desire still i= s uppermost. In the next cycle of the human period Manas will be fully active and developed in the entire race. Hence the people of the earth have not ye= t come to the point of making a conscious choice as to the path they will take; but when in the cycle referred to, Manas is active, all will then be compelled to consciously make the choice to right or left, the one leading to complete and conscious union with Atma, the other to the annihilation of those beings who prefer that path of an isolated selfishness. The COMPLEXITY OF NATURE IS FOCUSED IN MAN How man has come to be the complex being that he is and why, are questions that neither Science nor Religion makes conclusive answer to.=20 This immortal thinker having such vast powers and possibilities, all his because of his intimate connection with every secret part of Nature from which he has been built up, stands at the top of an immense and silent evolution.=20 He asks why Nature exists, what the drama of life has for its aim, how that aim may be attained. But Science and Religion both fail to give a reasonabl= e reply. Science does not pretend to be able to give the solution, saying tha= t the examination of things as they are (as Nature has arranged them), is enough of a task. Religion offers an explanation both illogical and unmeaning and acceptable but to the bigot, as it requires us to consider th= e whole of Nature as a mystery and to seek for the meaning and purpose of life, with all its sorrow, in the whimsical and fanciful pleasure of a God who cannot be found out. The educated and enquiring mind knows that dogmati= c religion can only give an answer invented by man while it pretends to be from God.=20 WHY DOES MAN AND THE UNIVERSE EXIST AT ALL ? What then is the universe for, and for what final purpose is man the immortal thinker here in evolution? It is all for the experience and emancipation of the soul, for the purpose of raising the entire mass of manifested matter up to the stature, nature, and dignity of conscious god-hood. The great aim is to reach self-consciousness; not through a race or a tribe or some favored nation, but by and through the perfecting, after transformation, of the whole mass of matter as well as what we now call soul.=20 Nothing is or is to be left out. The aim for present man is his initiation into complete knowledge, and for the other kingdoms below him that they may be raised up gradually from stage to stage to be in time initiated also.=20 This is evolution carried to its highest power; it is a magnificent prospect; it makes of man a god, and gives to every part of nature the possibility of being one day the same; there is strength and nobility in it= , for by this no man is dwarfed and belittled, for no one is so originally sinful that he cannot rise above all sin.=20 =09 MATTER MADE OF IMMORTAL EVOLVING MONADS As to the whole mass of matter, the doctrine is that it will all be raised to man's estate when man has gone further on himself.=20 There is no residuum left after man's final salvation which in a mysterious way is to be disposed of or done away with in some remote dust-heap of nature. The true doctrine allows for nothing like that, and at the same tim= e is not afraid to give the true disposition of what would seem to be a residuum. It is all worked up into other states, for as the philosophy declares there is no inorganic matter whatever but that every atom is alive and has the germ of self-consciousness, it must follow that one day it will all have been changed.=20 Thus what is now called human flesh is so much matter that one day was wholly mineral, later on vegetable, and now refined into human atoms. At a point of time very far from now the present vegetable matter will have been raised to the animal stage and what we now use as our organic or fleshy matter will have changed by transformation through evolution into self-conscious thinkers, and so on up the whole scale until the time shall come when what is now known as mineral matter will have passed on to the human stage and out into that of thinker.=20 Then at the coming on of another great period of evolution the mineral matter of that time will be some which is now passing through its lower transformations on other planets and in other systems of worlds. This is perhaps a "fanciful" scheme for the men of the present day, who are so accustomed to being called bad, sinful, weak, and utterly foolish from thei= r birth that they fear to believe the truth about themselves, but for the disciples of the ancient theosophists it is not impossible or fanciful, but is logical and vast. And no doubt it will one day be admitted by everyone when the mind of the western race has broken away from Mosaic chronology.=20 As to reincarnation and metempsychosis we say that they are first to be applied to the whole cosmos and not alone to man. But as man is the most interesting object to himself, we will consider in detail its application t= o him.=20 =09 REINCARNATION AND KARMA SOLVE LIFE'S PROBLEMS. For alone in reincarnation is the answer to all the problems of life, and i= n it and Karma is the force that will make men pursue in fact the ethics they have in theory. It is the aim of the old philosophy to restore this doctrin= e to whatsoever religion has lost it; and hence we call it the "lost chord of Christianity."=20 =09 MAN: A CRUCIBLE FOR THE PROGRESS OF ALL MONADS The second explanation is, that inasmuch as nature intends us to use the matter which comes into our body and astral body for the purpose, among others, of benefiting the matter by the impress it gets from association with the human Ego, if we use it so as to give it only a brutal impression it must fly back to the animal kingdom to be absorbed there instead of bein= g refined and kept on the human plane.=20 And as all the matter which the human Ego gathered to it retains the stamp or photographic impression of the human being, the matter (as "life-atoms," or Monads of lesser experience) transmigrates to the lower level when give= n an animal impress by the Ego.=20 This actual fact in the great chemical laboratory of nature could easily be misconstrued by the ignorant. But present-day students know that once Manas the Thinker has arrived on the scene he does not return to baser forms; first, because he does not wish to, and second, because he cannot. For just as the blood in the body is prevented by valves from rushing back and engorging the heart, so in this greater system of universal circulation the door is shut behind the Thinker and prevents his retrocession. Reincarnatio= n as a doctrine applying to the real man does not teach transmigration into kingdoms of nature below the human. In the West, where the object of life is commercial, financial, social, or scientific success, that is, personal profit, aggrandizement, and power, th= e real life of man receives but little attention, and we, unlike the Orientals, give scant prominence to the doctrine of preexistence and reincarnation.=20 WHY DO WE NOT REMEMBER OUR PAST LIVES ? It is said, if we reincarnate, how is it that we do not remember the earlie= r life; and further, as we cannot remember the deeds for which we suffer, is it not unjust for that reason to suffer now?=20 Those who ask this, ignore the fact that they also have enjoyment and rewar= d in this life, and are content to accept them without question. For if it is unjust to be punished for deeds we do not remember, then it is also inequitable to be rewarded for other acts of ours, done then, which have been forgotten.=20 JUSTICE: REWARD AND PUNISHMENT Mere entry into life is no fit foundation for any reward or punishment.=20 Reward and punishment must be the just desert for prior conduct. Nature's law of justice is not imperfect, and it is only the imperfection of human justice that requires the offender to know and remember in this life a deed to which a penalty is annexed.=20 In the prior life the doer was then quite aware of what he did, and nature affixes consequences to his acts, being thus just. We well know that she will make the effect follow the cause whatever we wish and whether we remember or forget what we did.=20 If a baby is hurt in its first years, so as to lay the ground for a crippling disease in after life, as is often the case, the crippling diseas= e will come although the child neither brought on the present cause nor remembered aught about it. But reincarnation, with its companion doctrine o= f Karma, rightly understood, shows how perfectly just the whole scheme of nature is.=20 Memory of a prior life is not needed to prove that we passed through that existence, nor is the fact of not remembering a good objection. We forget the greater part of the occurrences of the years and days of this life, but no one would say for that reason we did not go through these years. They were lived, and we retain but little of the details in the brain. But the entire effect of them on the character is kept and made a part of ourselves= . The whole mass of detail of a life is preserved in the inner man to be one day fully brought back to the conscious memory in some other life when we are perfected. And even now, imperfect as we are, and little as we know, th= e experiments in hypnotism show that all the smallest details are registered in what is for the present called the "sub-conscious" mind. The theosophica= l doctrine is that not a single one of these happenings is forgotten in fact, and at the end of life when the eyes are closed and those about say we are dead, every thought and circumstance of life flash vividly into and across the mind, and are transferred to the inner, the astral and the spiritual ma= n which are now leaving the body. ONE LIFE IS INSUFFICIENT A survey of one short human life gives no ground for the production of a man's inner nature.=20 It is needful that each soul should have all possible experience, and one life cannot give this even under the best conditions. It would be folly, as for instance, for the "Almighty," to put us here for such a short time, only to remove us just when we had begun to see the object of life and the possibilities in it. The mere selfish desire of a person to escape the trials and discipline of life is not enough to set nature's laws aside.=20 The Soul must be reborn until it has ceased to set in motion the cause of rebirth, after having developed character up to its possible limit as indicated by all the varieties of human nature, when every experience has been passed through, and not until all of truth that can be known has been acquired.=20 The vast disparity among men in respect to capacity compels us, if we wish to ascribe justice to Nature or to God, to admit reincarnation and to trace the origin of the disparity back to the past lives of the Ego.=20 For people are as much hindered and handicapped, abused and made the victim= s of seeming injustice because of limited capacity, as they are by reason of circumstances of birth or education. We see the uneducated rising above circumstances of family and training, and often those born in good families have very small capacity; but the troubles of nations and families arise from want of capacity more than from any other cause.=20 INHERENT IDEAS=09 The fact that certain inherent ideas are common to the whole race of mankind, is explained by the Sages as due to recollection of such ideas, which were implanted in the human mind at the very beginning of its evolutionary career on this planet by those Elder Brothers and Dhyanis (the WISE), who learned their lessons and were perfected in former aeons, on other worlds, and long before the development of this globe began. No explanation for inherent ideas is offered by science that will do more than say, "they exist." These were actually taught originally to the mass of Ego= s who are engaged in this earth's evolution; they were imprinted or burned into their natures, and have, and are always been recollected; they follow the Ego through the long pilgrimage to final Perfection. It has been often thought that the opposition to reincarnation has been solely based on prejudice, when not due to a dogma which can only stand whe= n the free Mind is bound down and prevented from using its own powers.=20 It is a doctrine the most noble of all, and with its companion one of Karma= , it alone gives the basis for ethics.=20 extracts from The OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY=20 =20 Best wishes, Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D =20 -----Original Message----- From: Johanes Soetarjono [mailto:yokrist@yahoo.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 5:48 AM To: study@blavatsky.net Subject: [bn-study] Re: REINCARNATION my experience in spiritual practices to understanding what the real happen and mean of reincarnation or the law of cause and effect in the all content of earth planet has result like this. All our beautiful planet always cover with the disordant energies that defendant or againts the GOD Plan.=20 snip Your truthfully, JOHANES SOETARJONO From dalval14@earthlink.net Fri Jan 13 04:37:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 11571 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2006 12:37:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jan 2006 12:37:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.67) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jan 2006 12:37:21 -0000 Received: from [216.175.82.39] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1ExOAo-0005R4-69; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 07:36:54 -0500 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 04:36:36 -0800 Message-ID: <005f01c6183e$03a08bd0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High In-Reply-To: <9F758AFC41B3CF4786AF0C4AF85518B43FFBBD@sfa-cex-01.cs.smrh.net> X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79383e74c5dcc9df3acb37a582b15159ee350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.67 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: About physical yoking ... HATHA and RAJA YOGA X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=Zy6jQAcBQKL6kqMUNoUGjsO21TtSeqfab_cqSrhvCrGacw X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/13/2006 4:13 AM Dear Friend N N: Understood. Now what lies behind physical activity? Is it not desire or will? In achieving development in any physical form, is it not guided by plans devised by a mind which is moved by a desired object =96 or am I wrong ?=20 So to my way of thinking the desire comes first and then the mind devises ways and means to achieve a set objective. That which is named RAJA YOGA relates to mental and moral development (as I read and study this ancient science). Here is some more about it. --------------------------------------------- HATHA YOGA.DOC =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D HATHA YOGA CONCENTRATION. In the Indian books it is called Yoga. This is translated also as Union, meaning a union with the Supreme Being, or, as it is otherwise put, "the object of spiritual knowledge is the Supreme Being." There are two great divisions of Yoga found in the ancient books, and they are called Hatha-Yoga and Raj-Yoga.=20 Hatha-Yoga is a practical mortification of the BODY by means of which certain powers are developed. It consists in the assumption of certain postures that aid the work, and certain kinds of breathing that bring on changes in the system, together with other devices.=A0 It is referred to in the 4th chapter of the Bhagavad-Gita thus: "Some devotees sacrifice the sense of hearing and the other senses in the fires of restraint; some offer objects of sense, such as sound, in the fire= s of the senses. Some also sacrifice inspiration of breath in expiration, and expiration in inspiration, by blocking up the channels of inspiration and expiration, desirous of retaining their breath. Others, by abstaining from food, sacrifice life in their life." =09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09 In various treatises these methods are set forth in detail, and there is no doubt at all that by pursuing them one can gain possession of sundry abnormal powers. There is risk, however, especially in the case of people i= n the West where experienced gurus or teachers of these things are not found. These risks consist in this, that while an undirected person is doing according to the rules of Hatha-Yoga, he arouses about him influences that do him harm, and he also carries his natural functions to certain states no= w and then when he ought to stop for a while, but, having no knowledge of the matter, may go on beyond that and produce injurious effects. Then, again, Hatha-Yoga is a difficult thing to pursue, and one that must b= e pushed to the point of mastery and success. Few of our Western people are b= y nature fitted for such continuous and difficult labor on the mental and astral planes. Thus, being attracted to Hatha-Yoga by the novelty of it, an= d by the apparent pay that it offers in visible physical results, they begin without knowledge of the difficulty, and stopping after a period of trial they bring down upon themselves consequences that are wholly undesirable. =A0The greatest objection to it, however, is that it pertains to the materi= al and semi-material man, roughly speaking, to the body, and what is gained through it is lost at death.=20 The Bhagavad Gita refers to this and describes what happens in these words: =A0"All of these, indeed, being versed in sacrifice, have their sins destro= yed by these sacrifices. But he alone reaches union with the Supreme being who eats of the ambrosia left from a sacrifice." This means that the Hatha-Yoga practice represents the mere sacrifice itself, whereas the other kind is the ambrosia arising from the sacrifice, or "the perfection of spiritual cultivation," and that leads to Nirvana. Th= e means for attaining the "perfection of spiritual cultivation" are found in Raj-Yoga, or, as we shall term it for the present, the Culture of Concentration. When concentration is perfected, we are in a position to use the knowledge that is ever within reach but which ordinarily eludes us continually. That which is usually called knowledge is only an intellectual comprehension of the outside, visible forms assumed by certain realities. Take what is called scientific knowledge of minerals and metals. This is merely a classification of material phenomena and an empirical acquisition. It knows what certain minerals and metals are useful for, and what some of their properties are. Gold is known to be pure, soft, yellow, and extremely ductile, and by a series of accidents it has been discovered to be useful i= n medicine and the arts. But even to this day there is a controversy, not wholly settled, as to whether gold is held mechanically or chemically in crude ore. Similarly with minerals. The crystalline forms are known and classified. And yet a new theory has arisen, coming very near to the truth, that we do not know matter in reality in this way, but only apprehend certain phenomen= a presented to us by matter, and variously called, as the phenomena alter, gold, wood, iron, stone, and so on. But whether the minerals, metals, and vegetables have further properties that are only to be apprehended by still other and undeveloped senses, science will not admit. Passing from inanimate objects to the men and women about us, this ordinary intellectual knowledge aids us no more than before. We see bodies with different names and of different races, but below the outer phenomena our everyday intellect will not carry us. This man we suppose to have a certain character assigned to him after experience of his conduct, but it is still only provisional, for none of us is ready to say that we know him either in his good or his bad qualities. W= e know there is more to him than we can see or reason about, but what, we cannot tell. It eludes us continually. And when we turn to contemplate ourselves, we are just as ignorant as we are about our fellow man. Out of this has arisen an old saying: "Every man knows what he is, but no one know= s what he will be." There must be in us a power of discernment, the cultivation of which will enable us to know whatever is desired to be known. That there is such a power is affirmed by teachers of occultism, and the way to acquire it is by cultivating concentration. It is generally overlooked, or not believed, that the inner man who is the one to have these powers has to grow up to maturity, just as the body has t= o mature before its organs fulfill their functions fully. By inner man I do not mean the higher self-the Ishwara before spoken of, but that part of us which is called soul, or astral man, or vehicle, and so on. All these terms are subject to correction, and should not be held rigidly to the meanings given by various writers. Let us premise, first, the body now visible; second, the inner man -- not the spirit; and third, the spirit itself. SUCCESS in CONCENTRATION Success in the culture of concentration is not for him who sporadically attempts it. It is a thing that flows from "a firm position assumed with regard to the end in view, and unremittingly kept up." =85students are too = apt to think that success in occultism can be reached as one attains success in school or college, by reading and learning printed words.=20 A complete knowledge of all that was ever written upon concentration will confer no power in the practice of that about which I treat. Mere book knowledge is derided in this school as much as it is by the clodhopper; not that I think book knowledge is to be avoided, but that sort of acquisition without the concentration is as useless as faith without works. It is calle= d in some places, I believe, "mere eye-knowledge." Such indeed it is; and suc= h is the sort of culture most respected in these degenerate times. RAJA YOGA, VIRTUE and ALTRUISM In starting these papers the true practice was called Raj Yoga. It discards those physical motions, postures, and recipes relating solely to the presen= t personality, and directs the student to virtue and altruism as the bases from which to start. This is more often rejected than accepted.=20 VIRTUE AS A CONTINUOUS PRACTICE So much has been said during the last 1800 years about Rosicrucians, Egyptian Adepts, Secret Masters, Kaballah, and wonderful magical books, tha= t students without a guide, attracted to these subjects, ask for information and seek in vain for the entrance to the temple of the learning they crave, because they say that virtue's rules are meant for babes and Sunday-schools= , but not for them.=20 And, in consequence, we find hundreds of books in all the languages of Europe dealing with rites, ceremonies, invocations, and other obscurities that will lead to nothing but loss of time and money. But few of these authors had anything save "mere eye-knowledge." 'Tis true they have sometimes a reputation, but it is only that accorded to an ignoramus by those who are more ignorant. The so-called great man, knowing how fatal to reputation it would be to tel= l how really small is his practical knowledge, prates about "projections and elementals," "philosopher's stone and elixir," but discreetly keeps from hi= s readers the paucity of his acquirements and the insecurity of his own menta= l state.=20 Let the seeker know, once for all, that the virtues cannot be discarded nor ignored; they must be made a part of our life, and their philosophical basi= s must be understood. But it may be asked, if in the culture of concentration we will succeed alone by the practice of virtue. The answer is No, not in this life, but perhaps one day in a later life. The life of virtue accumulates much merit; that merit will at some time cause one to be born in a wise family where th= e real practice of concentration may perchance begin; or it may cause one to be born in a family of devotees or those far advanced on the Path, as said in Bhagavad-Gita. But such a birth as this, says Krishna, is difficult to obtain; hence the virtues alone will not always lead in short space to our object.=20=20 We must make up our minds to a life of constant work upon this line.=20 The lazy ones or they who ask for pleasure may as well give it up at the threshold and be content with the pleasant paths marked out for those who "fear God and honor the King." Immense fields of investigation and experiment have to be traversed; dangers unthought of and forces unknown ar= e to be met; and all must be overcome, for in this battle there is no quarter asked or given.=20 Great stores of knowledge must be found and seized. The kingdom of heaven i= s not to be had for the asking; it must be taken by violence. And the only wa= y in which we can gain the will and the power to thus seize and hold is by acquiring the virtues on the one hand, and minutely understanding ourselves on the other. Some day we will begin to see why not one passing thought may be ignored, not one flitting impression missed. This we can perceive is no simple task. It is a gigantic work. Did you ever reflect that the mere passing sight of a picture, or a single word instantly lost in the rush of the world, may be basis for a dream that will poison the night and react upon the brain next day. Each one must be examined. If you have not noticed it, then when you awake next day you have to go back in memory over every word and circumstance of the preceding day, seeking, like the astronomer through space, for the lost one. And, similarly, without such a special reason, you must learn to be able to go thus backward into your days so as to go over carefully and in detail all that happened, all that you permitted to pass through the brain. Is this an easy matter? As we have to deal with the Western mind now ours, all unused as it is to these things and over-burdened with false training and falser logic, we mus= t begin where we are, we must examine our present possessions and grow to kno= w our own present powers and mental machinery. This done, we may proceed to see ourselves in the way that shall bring about the best result. Extracted from =93The CULTURE OF CONCENTRATION =93 by W Q Judge ---------------------------------------------- "Hatha-yoga is the latest and, in comparison with raja-yoga, a modern compromise of mysticism. It is the result of centuries of the slipshod practice of the philosophy, the victory of the external form and ritual ove= r the spirit of the teaching, and consequently, the gradual degeneration of Brahma-vidya, the divine wisdom. Having lost, as the result of personal ambition and earthly passions, the faculty for union with Brahman, that is, with Unconditioned Nature, the majority of Brahmanas, debarred from the final supreme initiation, the difficulties of which they could not surmount= , substituted hatha-yoga for raja-yoga... The raja-yogi...for him there [is]...only the unconditioned, double-edged power of creation and destruction, the one universal, primordial substance, of which he is an inalienable, particle, even though, in the (367) deceptiv= e consciousness of his earthly senses, he appears to be a transient individual. Having verified its properties by years of methodical experiments and recognizing this power in himself...when occasion arises, using his own will and discretion, he aims, in one direction or another, this power, the twofold quality of which is attraction and repulsion... For him who knows exactly nothing or very little about raja-yoga and the real Brahma-vidya, and for him who is unfamiliar with the psychology of the East, substance is the product of his own conceptions, or of the deductions of Western science with its hypotheses: in other words, the result of unquestionably relative ideas. For the Westerner every substance, from the life-force current to the mineral, is matter. He is ignorant of the successive levels, from conditioned and limited substance, to primordial an= d unconditioned substance, i.e., primordial matter--mulaprakriti. Hence it i= s exceedingly difficult, if not impossible, to explain to him the nature of the actions of the raja-yogi and of the transference of the essence of his creative power to an inanimate object [talisman, rosary bead (rudraksha), danda (wand)].=20=20 For the Western scientist...everything that is not matter is either (368) 'nothing' or simply and incorporeal quality...He is ignorant of the properties and of all the conditions of force...the power that creates and destroys, that attracts and repels...this power concentrated on any object...[by] a raja-yogi of India, in other words, an adept initiated into the secret sciences, is nothing else but spirit without attributes and qualificative matter. It is this very power that has created man, the vaha= n [vehicle] of Parabrahman [the Universe] and Mulaprakriti [primordial, root matter].=20=20 In his turn, a human being who is aware in himself of this twofold power ca= n transmit its surplus to other vahanas. But in order to create and develop in himself such surplus, he must, first of all, renounce his own personality, devote himself completely to the service of mankind, forget hi= s personal I, make himself at first worthy of being a collaborator (369) with nature and only then--become an adept... In order to become a raja-yogi, it is necessary first of all to renounce unconditionally one's own personality and to have no selfish purposes, as only hatha-yogis are concerned with such purposes, as a result of which the= y have degraded the meaning of the secret sciences in the eyes of the uninitiated."=20=20 --HPB "From the Caves and Jungles of Hindostan" - Theosophy, V. 71 p.366 "The Yoga system is divided into two principal parts--Raja and Hatha Yoga. There are many divisions which can be brought under either of these heads. = =20 Hatha Yoga was promoted and practiced by Matsendra Nath and Gorakh Nath and their followers, and by many sects of ascetics in this country (India). This system deals principally with the physiological part of man with a vie= w to establish his health and train his will. The processes prescribed to arrive at this end are so difficult that only a few resolute souls go through all the stages of its practice, while many have failed and died in the attempt. It is therefore strongly denounced by all the philosophers. = =20 The most illustrious Sankaracharya has remarked in his treatise called Aparokshanubhuti that 'the system of Hatha Yoga was intended for those whos= e worldly desires are not pacified or uprooted.' He has strongly spoken elsewhere against this practice.=20=20 On the other hand, the Raja Yogis try to control the mind itself by following the rules laid down by the greatest of adepts. Patanjali's rules compel the student not only to acquire a right knowledge of what is and what is not real, but also to practice all virtues, and whil= e results in the way of psychic development are not so immediately seen as in the case of the successful practitioner of Hatha Yoga, it is infinitely safer and is certainly spiritual, which Hatha Yoga is not. In Patanjali's Aphorisms there is some slight allusion to the practices of Hatha Yoga, suc= h as "postures," each of which is more difficult than those preceding, and "retention of breath," but he distinctly says that mortification and other practices are either for the purpose of extenuating certain mental afflictions or for the more easy attainment of concentration of mind. In Hatha Yoga practice, on the contrary, the result is psychic development at the delay or expense of the spiritual nature. These last named practice= s and results may allure the Western student, but from our knowledge of inherent racial differences there is not much fear that many will persist i= n them."=09 W.Q.Judge--Patanjali Yoga Aphorisms, pp ix-x "RAJA-YOGA (Sk.) The true system of developing psychic and spiritual powers and union with one's Higher Self--or the Supreme Spirit, as the profane express it. The exercise, regulation and concentration of thought. Raja-Yoga is opposed to Hatha-Yoga, the physical or psycho-physiological training in asceticism." T. Glos, p. 275 "...the Occult law, which prescribes silence upon the knowledge of certain secret and invisible things perceptible only to the spiritual mind (the 6th sense), and which cannot be expressed by "noisy" or uttered speech...Pranayama, or regulation of the breath in Yoga practices. This mode, however, without the previous the previous acquisition of the two higher senses, of which there are seven, as will be shown, pertains rather to the lower Yoga. The Hatha so called was and still is discountenanced b= y the Arhats. It is injurious to the health and alone can never develop into Raj Yoga." HPB - SD I 95 "Raj Yoga encourages no sham, requires no physical postures. It has to dea= l with the inner man whose sphere lies in the world of thought. To have the highest ideal placed before oneself and strive incessantly to rise up to it= , is the only true concentration recognized by Esoteric Philosophy which deal= s with the inner world of noumena, not the outer shell of phenomena. ... The first requisite for it is through purity of heart...A cultivation of the feeling of unselfish philanthropy is the path which has to be traveled for that purpose. For it is that alone which will lead to Universal Love, the realization of which constitutes the progress towards deliverance from the chains forged by Maya around the Ego." --D. K. MAVALANKAR. THEOS. ARTICLES AND NOTES, p. 43 "...the Hatha Yogin--men who at times had reached through a physical and well-organized system of training the highest powers as "wonder-workers" --there has never been a man worthy of being considered as a true Yogin...the Raja Yogin trains but his mental and intellectual powers, leaving the physical alone, and making but little of the exercise of phenomena simply of a physical character. Hence it is the rarest thing in the world to find a real Yogi boasting of being one, or willing to exhibit such powers--though he does acquire them a= s well as the one practicing Hatha Yoga, but through another and far more intellectual system. Generally, they deny these powers point blanc, for reasons but too well-grounded. The latter [Raja Yogis] need not even belon= g to any apparent order of ascetics, and are oftener known as private individuals than members of a religious fraternity, nor need they necessarily be Hindus. ... A Yogi who gets frightened at any threat is no Yogi, but one of those who learn to produce effects without knowing or having learnt what are the causes. Such men, if not tricksters, are simply passive mediums--not adepts. (118)...if we look closer at the origin of their school and study Patanjali's Yoga Vidya--we will be better able to understand...their seemingly ridiculous practices." Theos. Articles & Notes, pp 117-118=20 "Know ye not ye are Gods ?" -- Jesus John 1.12 Isis I, p.2 One of the lost chords of Christianity is Jesus=92 teaching that every huma= n as a component of the Universal DEITY (omnipresence) has a =93ray=94 of the GODHEAD within . If this were truly taken then we might feel encouraged to emulate Jesus in our lives =96 not merely hear His words and do as we pleas= e. Best wishes, Dallas ---------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Nikki N Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 3:29 PM To:=20 Subject: About physical yoking ... I am a very physical person and workout in various activities with instructors and trainers:=20 "Physical yoking" is indeed a reality in yoga and Pilates instruction, and even in the gym, where words like "connect", "integrate" and "coordinate" are used frequently. =20 From mkr777@gmail.com Fri Jan 13 07:57:54 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 78389 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2006 15:57:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jan 2006 15:57:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO uproxy.gmail.com) (66.249.92.196) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jan 2006 15:57:52 -0000 Received: by uproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id a2so25594ugf for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 07:57:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.49.67.10 with SMTP id u10mr72881nfk; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 07:57:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.48.47.13 with HTTP; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 07:57:49 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 09:57:49 -0600 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <247.523c4b8.30f89efc@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <247.523c4b8.30f89efc@aol.com> X-Originating-IP: 66.249.92.196 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: Theos-World New Wisdom University X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sure. Why stop with MT? Why not DT (Doctor of Theosophy). Then it may look respectable in the eyes of public. I am told that one time there was an inquiry to Co-Masons whether they issue Certificate of Adeptship...... Someone can start it and will be a profitable growth industry in the US and there will not be any violation of laws since it would not conflict with traditional University Degrees. mkr On 1/13/06, Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > > > Does that mean that we can all be MT's (Masters of Theosophy)? > > Chuck the Heretic > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Fri Jan 13 08:57:51 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 34646 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2006 16:57:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jan 2006 16:57:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m27.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.8) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jan 2006 16:57:50 -0000 Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.214.113e6460 (57293) for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 11:49:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <214.113e6460.30f93431@aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 11:49:53 EST To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5021 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.8 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World New Wisdom University X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=8NqSBWi9sSaz67b8ekuAANorucJxZyAVcy2NHcB2hbnucBMBdQ X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/13/2006 10:16:52 AM Central Standard Time, mkr777@gmail.com writes: Sure. Why stop with MT? Why not DT (Doctor of Theosophy). Then it may look respectable in the eyes of public. Actually it would more likely be a MW or DW degree (Master or Doctor of Wisdom). Chuck the Heretic [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mkr777@gmail.com Fri Jan 13 13:32:54 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: mkr777@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93851 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2006 21:32:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jan 2006 21:32:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO uproxy.gmail.com) (66.249.92.204) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jan 2006 21:32:53 -0000 Received: by uproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id s2so57934uge for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:32:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.49.40.14 with SMTP id s14mr96671nfj; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:32:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.48.47.13 with HTTP; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:32:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 15:32:51 -0600 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <214.113e6460.30f93431@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <214.113e6460.30f93431@aol.com> X-Originating-IP: 66.249.92.204 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: M K Ramadoss Subject: Re: Theos-World New Wisdom University X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=243096636 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I stand corrected! On 1/13/06, Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 1/13/2006 10:16:52 AM Central Standard Time, > mkr777@gmail.com writes: > > Sure. Why stop with MT? Why not DT (Doctor of Theosophy). Then it > may look > respectable in the eyes of public. > > > > Actually it would more likely be a MW or DW degree (Master or Doctor of > Wisdom). > > Chuck the Heretic > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From bartl@sprynet.com Fri Jan 13 15:56:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25433 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2006 23:56:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Jan 2006 23:56:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.67) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Jan 2006 23:56:21 -0000 Received: from [151.198.115.250] (helo=sprynet.com) by smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1ExYm0-0000fK-IV for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 18:56:00 -0500 Message-ID: <43C83E18.6070101@sprynet.com> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 18:56:08 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: <247.523c4b8.30f89efc@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <247.523c4b8.30f89efc@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: 5be619ec394aa49c25eb773df4b61cba874c7bdc8d3fc4774d28cc91ea3bc596548b785378294e88350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.67 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Theos-World New Wisdom University X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=690370; y=ukgRvfLxlcR5UG6xq0SL8gSmXVW2MZai_LRlOsitsmiPc2w X-Yahoo-Profile: bml07646 Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > Does that mean that we can all be MT's (Masters of Theosophy)? Well, the problem with that will be that we let it go to our heads. Then we'll all be MT headed. Bart From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Fri Jan 13 19:46:38 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 34550 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2006 03:46:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jan 2006 03:46:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.43) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jan 2006 03:46:36 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n9.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jan 2006 03:46:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jan 2006 03:46:20 -0000 Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 03:46:19 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.43 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: Jesus Christ, the New Testament & Early Christianity X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=5SxY36z1oZpVwKf_Zt_SzypS7UK5kuzihrVy7o9U5h43EDmdTi2cfycy X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Jesus Christ, the New Testament & Early Christianity: A Library of 12 Essential Titles by Bart D. Ehrman,=20 the Well-Known New Testament Scholar & Historian See: http://blavatskyarchives.com/Ehrmanbibliography.htm Daniel Blavatsky Study Center http://blavatskyarchives.com From bartl@sprynet.com Fri Jan 13 20:42:56 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 97621 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2006 04:42:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jan 2006 04:42:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.67) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jan 2006 04:42:56 -0000 Received: from [151.198.115.250] (helo=sprynet.com) by smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1ExdFf-0002AU-OJ for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 23:42:55 -0500 Message-ID: <43C88157.7050803@sprynet.com> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 23:43:03 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: <214.113e6460.30f93431@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <214.113e6460.30f93431@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: 5be619ec394aa49c25eb773df4b61cbaf844a85dd14933e85d8c1256a1a10a413ca473d225a0f487350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.67 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Theos-World New Wisdom University X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=690370; y=CoQqLz4vP9dtNb_t8mwNrooE8UBiOtufudtxkX9390eBZEo X-Yahoo-Profile: bml07646 Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: > Sure. Why stop with MT? Why not DT (Doctor of Theosophy). Then it may look > respectable in the eyes of public. Well, if you MT too many bottles, you'll end up with the DT's. Bart From leonmaurer@aol.com Fri Jan 13 21:24:07 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33424 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2006 05:24:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jan 2006 05:24:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m28.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.9) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jan 2006 05:24:04 -0000 Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id j.21e.65c9485 (4238) for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 00:23:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <21e.65c9485.30f9e4cf@aol.com> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 00:23:27 EST To: study@blavatsky.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Thunderbird - Mac OS X sub 310 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.9 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: leonmaurer@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Science vs. Theosophy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972; y=uMPhEOVU1mBPOOWr2epxavbmZYs2Q8cWI-1THJB-oCbWmCAA0fc X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Christine, I thought the basis of the disagreement was fully explained when I said tha= t=20 the subjective aspects of thought attributed to the brain by scientists,=20 actually belonged to the zero-point(s) of "absolute" space along with the m= ind that=20 exist(s) beyond all "metric" space, time, (and brain meat, so to speak. :-) My basic premise, in accord with HPB's outline of the Secret Doctrine, is=20 that the brain cannot "think" -- as physicalist/materialist scientists pres= ume --=20 but can only process the sensory images that come up in our thoughts guided= =20 by the awareness and will of our consciousness, and carried as holographic = wave=20 interference patterns in the mind (thought, reason, intuition, memory, etc.= )=20 -- that, as "coadunate but not consubstantial" (i.e., multidimensional=20 "hyperspace") fields, also exist beyond the physical properties of the brai= n-body and=20 its neural system.=20=20=20 Thus, the brain is nothing more than a highly complex and malleable=20 transponding/transforming electrochemical control system between the physic= al senses,=20 the body's muscular system, and the mind (which is directly accessed by its= =20 zero-point center of consciousness, as well in inductive resonance with the= =20 sensory image modulations carried by the brain's electromagnetic field). = Thus=20 sensory images are transformed and inductively mapped from the brain field = into=20 mind-memory field images, and vice versa. This enables the consciousness = to=20 be in direct control of the positions of the body with relation to the oute= r=20 world. Such conscious control enables a baseball player to single handedl= y=20 catch a high fly ball on the run, and a skilled fine artist to place her br= ush=20 exactly on a point of an image on the canvas in exact correspondence with t= hat=20 point of the model she sees, at the moment of a single glance, in her mind.= =20=20=20 These are amazing feats that only a remote single pointed awareness and wil= l=20 could achieve, in combination with a mappable mind field and a malleable an= d=20 trainable neural network coupled with its elctromagnetic brain wave field. = =20=20 Incidentally, this malleability of the neural network implies that each neu= ron is=20 also conscious to a limited degree -- as are all the other cells in our bod= ies=20 that respond to their signals. In this view, we assume that the other aspects of our human awareness and=20 thought, such as discernment, discrimination, comprehension, decision, choi= ce,=20 self consciousness, etc., are also properties of the zero-points of=20 consciousness or higher Self that is centered in our Spiritual Atma and Bud= dhi-Manas=20 fields. (Of course, all this can be influenced by our lower self, whose=20 zero-points of consciousness are centered in our animal-like Astral Kama-Ma= nas fields.)=20 For a symbolic view of how these fields involve and relate to each other,= =20 see diagrams at:=20 http://users.aol.com/uniwldarts/uniworld.artisans.guild/chakrafield.html, http://users.aol.com/uniwldarts/uniworld.artisans.guild/manfields.ht ml#anchor1749200 http://users.aol.com/leonmaurer/TaiChiFldDiag-figure-2.gif http://users.aol.com/leonmaurer/Chakrafielddiag-fig.col.jpg Hope this clarifies these ideas a bit further. Best regards, Lenny In a message dated 1/11/06 1:12:24 PM, cmmullee@hotmail.com writes: > January 10, 2006 >=20 > Dear Leon: >=20 > In reply to your e-mail of January 9, 2006, concerning a counter argument > refuting a scientist claiming the "brain thinks," the question arises > whether this opinion would be better served if further explanation was gi= ven > explaining the basis for the disagreement.=A0 In other words, is your opi= nion > based on an idea that the brain thinks independently of the rest of the > anatomy?=A0 In what context are you basing your opinion? >=20 > Sincerely, >=20 > Christine >=20 >=20 > >From: LeonMaurer@aol.com > >Reply-To: study@blavatsky.net > >To: study@blavatsky.net > >Subject: [bn-study] Re: Science vs. Theosophy > >Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 18:59:33 EST > > > >Just an added observation I once posted on the Journal of Consciousness= =20 > Study > >online forum -- in a similar mode of counter argument refuting a scienti= st > >claiming the "brain thinks.=A0=A0 My argument was never logically,=20 > scientifically or > >even philosophically refuted.=A0=A0 (Although one reputed quantum physic= ist=20 > said > >I was "barking up a tree."=A0=A0 The Quantum-Mind forum, on the other ha= nd, > >simply refused to post it. :-) > >----------------- > > > >"Contrary to the unfounded, hence, "religious" belief of most reductive > >scientists of a materialist bent; The Brain does NOT "think," "feel,"=20 > "smell," > >"taste," "hear," "recall," "remember," or "imagine"... Since, those are = the > >functions of the zero-points of consciousness (awareness-will) that link= s > >directly to the mind and memory -- which exists as separate fields of=20 > >energies enfolded within the apparently empty space between the > >hyperspace "particles," and outside of all metric time and space -- yet= =20 > >interconnected inductively with the electromagnetic fields of the brain > > and all other cellular structures of the body through their individual= =20 > >hyperspace fields.=A0=A0 This interconnection allows us to place our bod= ies > >at any desired location within the outer world field -- enabling a=20 > >baseball to be caught on the fly, and an artist to place the point > >of the brush on the exact point on the canvas corresponding to the=20 > >model and the painting pictured in the mind. > > > >All such fields are funda-mentally electrical in nature, and obey all it= s > >laws of harmony, cycles, symmetry and conservation of both matter and > >energy -- although their vectorial constants are different in value=20 > depending=20 > >on their mfrequency energy phase order. > > > >It's these fields that carry all the information or contents of=20 > consciousness > >-- as encoded holographic interference patterns (modulated as waves on t= he > >surfaces or "membranes" of the fields) -- that are capable of being=20 > transformed > >analogously from one hyperspace field level to another by inductive > >resonance, e.g., strike a "string" or "note" in one field, and the=20 > vibration > >resonates at the same equivalent pitch or note in adjacent higher ordere= d > >frequency-energy spectrum phase fields, as they cascade down to the zero= - > >point of their origination. Thus, no experiential information, in the fo= rm=20 > of wave > >vibrational patterns of energy, can ever be lost. > > > >The images of consciousness on the surface of the highest frequency-ener= gy > >phase order field is capable of being reconstructed and detected=20 > reflectively, > >by a single coherent ray of corresponding frequency energy projected fro= m > >anynon local zero-point of consciousness.=A0=A0 The brain is simply a=20 > transducer, > >transponder, and controller functioning as the linkage between the vario= us > >channels of sensory input and the ubiquitous zero-points of consciousnes= s > >throughout the overall field of the human organism." > > > >Best wishes, > > > >Lenny > > >=20 >=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Fri Jan 13 22:38:07 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41531 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2006 06:38:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jan 2006 06:38:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52101.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.104) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jan 2006 06:38:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 69427 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Jan 2006 06:38:05 -0000 Message-ID: <20060114063805.69425.qmail@web52101.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [211.28.165.96] by web52101.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 22:38:05 PST Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 22:38:05 -0800 (PST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <21e.65c9485.30f9e4cf@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.104 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Re: Science vs. Theosophy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=LzaebdQMQyQS3FkEquOLddOjCR8udr1VEmkCojxh55VParH_sA X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Leon Read this in Isis Unveiled P425, "Instinct, as a divine spark, lurks in the= unconscious nerve-centre of the ascidian mollusk, and manifests itself at = the first stage of action of its nervous system as what the physiologist te= rms the reflex action. It exists in the lowest classes of the acephalous a= nimals as well as in those that have distinct heads; it grows and develops = according to the law of the double evolution, physically and spiritually; a= nd entering upon its conscious stage of development and progress in the cep= halous species already endowed with a sensorium and symetrically-arranged g= anglia, this reflex action, whether men of science term it automatic, as in= the lowest species, or instinctive, as in the more complex organisms which= act under the guidance of the sensorium and the stimulus originating in di= stinct sensation, is still one and the same thing. It is the divine instin= ct in its ceaseless progress of development. Is what you term "awareness and will" is this instinct? Cass Cass leonmaurer@aol.com wrote: Dear Christine, I thought the basis of the disagreement was fully explained when I said tha= t=20 the subjective aspects of thought attributed to the brain by scientists,=20 actually belonged to the zero-point(s) of "absolute" space along with the m= ind that=20 exist(s) beyond all "metric" space, time, (and brain meat, so to speak. :-) My basic premise, in accord with HPB's outline of the Secret Doctrine, is=20 that the brain cannot "think" -- as physicalist/materialist scientists pres= ume --=20 but can only process the sensory images that come up in our thoughts guided= =20 by the awareness and will of our consciousness, and carried as holographic = wave=20 interference patterns in the mind (thought, reason, intuition, memory, etc.= )=20 -- that, as "coadunate but not consubstantial" (i.e., multidimensional=20 "hyperspace") fields, also exist beyond the physical properties of the brai= n-body and=20 its neural system.=20=20=20 Thus, the brain is nothing more than a highly complex and malleable=20 transponding/transforming electrochemical control system between the physic= al senses,=20 the body's muscular system, and the mind (which is directly accessed by its= =20 zero-point center of consciousness, as well in inductive resonance with the= =20 sensory image modulations carried by the brain's electromagnetic field). = Thus=20 sensory images are transformed and inductively mapped from the brain field = into=20 mind-memory field images, and vice versa. This enables the consciousness = to=20 be in direct control of the positions of the body with relation to the oute= r=20 world. Such conscious control enables a baseball player to single handedl= y=20 catch a high fly ball on the run, and a skilled fine artist to place her br= ush=20 exactly on a point of an image on the canvas in exact correspondence with t= hat=20 point of the model she sees, at the moment of a single glance, in her mind.= =20=20=20 These are amazing feats that only a remote single pointed awareness and wil= l=20 could achieve, in combination with a mappable mind field and a malleable an= d=20 trainable neural network coupled with its elctromagnetic brain wave field. = =20=20 Incidentally, this malleability of the neural network implies that each neu= ron is=20 also conscious to a limited degree -- as are all the other cells in our bod= ies=20 that respond to their signals. In this view, we assume that the other aspects of our human awareness and=20 thought, such as discernment, discrimination, comprehension, decision, choi= ce,=20 self consciousness, etc., are also properties of the zero-points of=20 consciousness or higher Self that is centered in our Spiritual Atma and Bud= dhi-Manas=20 fields. (Of course, all this can be influenced by our lower self, whose=20 zero-points of consciousness are centered in our animal-like Astral Kama-Ma= nas fields.)=20 For a symbolic view of how these fields involve and relate to each other,= =20 see diagrams at:=20 http://users.aol.com/uniwldarts/uniworld.artisans.guild/chakrafield.html, http://users.aol.com/uniwldarts/uniworld.artisans.guild/manfields.ht ml#anchor1749200 http://users.aol.com/leonmaurer/TaiChiFldDiag-figure-2.gif http://users.aol.com/leonmaurer/Chakrafielddiag-fig.col.jpg Hope this clarifies these ideas a bit further. Best regards, Lenny In a message dated 1/11/06 1:12:24 PM, cmmullee@hotmail.com writes: > January 10, 2006 >=20 > Dear Leon: >=20 > In reply to your e-mail of January 9, 2006, concerning a counter argument > refuting a scientist claiming the "brain thinks," the question arises > whether this opinion would be better served if further explanation was gi= ven > explaining the basis for the disagreement.=EF=BF=BD In other words, is yo= ur opinion > based on an idea that the brain thinks independently of the rest of the > anatomy?=EF=BF=BD In what context are you basing your opinion? >=20 > Sincerely, >=20 > Christine >=20 >=20 > >From: LeonMaurer@aol.com > >Reply-To: study@blavatsky.net > >To: study@blavatsky.net > >Subject: [bn-study] Re: Science vs. Theosophy > >Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 18:59:33 EST > > > >Just an added observation I once posted on the Journal of Consciousness= =20 > Study > >online forum -- in a similar mode of counter argument refuting a scienti= st > >claiming the "brain thinks.=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD My argument was never logi= cally,=20 > scientifically or > >even philosophically refuted.=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD (Although one reputed qu= antum physicist=20 > said > >I was "barking up a tree."=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD The Quantum-Mind forum, on = the other hand, > >simply refused to post it. :-) > >----------------- > > > >"Contrary to the unfounded, hence, "religious" belief of most reductive > >scientists of a materialist bent; The Brain does NOT "think," "feel,"=20 > "smell," > >"taste," "hear," "recall," "remember," or "imagine"... Since, those are = the > >functions of the zero-points of consciousness (awareness-will) that link= s > >directly to the mind and memory -- which exists as separate fields of=20 > >energies enfolded within the apparently empty space between the > >hyperspace "particles," and outside of all metric time and space -- yet= =20 > >interconnected inductively with the electromagnetic fields of the brain > > and all other cellular structures of the body through their individual= =20 > >hyperspace fields.=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD This interconnection allows us to p= lace our bodies > >at any desired location within the outer world field -- enabling a=20 > >baseball to be caught on the fly, and an artist to place the point > >of the brush on the exact point on the canvas corresponding to the=20 > >model and the painting pictured in the mind. > > > >All such fields are funda-mentally electrical in nature, and obey all it= s > >laws of harmony, cycles, symmetry and conservation of both matter and > >energy -- although their vectorial constants are different in value=20 > depending=20 > >on their mfrequency energy phase order. > > > >It's these fields that carry all the information or contents of=20 > consciousness > >-- as encoded holographic interference patterns (modulated as waves on t= he > >surfaces or "membranes" of the fields) -- that are capable of being=20 > transformed > >analogously from one hyperspace field level to another by inductive > >resonance, e.g., strike a "string" or "note" in one field, and the=20 > vibration > >resonates at the same equivalent pitch or note in adjacent higher ordere= d > >frequency-energy spectrum phase fields, as they cascade down to the zero= - > >point of their origination. Thus, no experiential information, in the fo= rm=20 > of wave > >vibrational patterns of energy, can ever be lost. > > > >The images of consciousness on the surface of the highest frequency-ener= gy > >phase order field is capable of being reconstructed and detected=20 > reflectively, > >by a single coherent ray of corresponding frequency energy projected fro= m > >anynon local zero-point of consciousness.=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD The brain is= simply a=20 > transducer, > >transponder, and controller functioning as the linkage between the vario= us > >channels of sensory input and the ubiquitous zero-points of consciousnes= s > >throughout the overall field of the human organism." > > > >Best wishes, > > > >Lenny > > >=20 >=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20 =09=09=09 --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands A= SAP. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Fri Jan 13 23:41:56 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 68842 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2006 07:41:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jan 2006 07:41:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.54) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jan 2006 07:41:56 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jan 2006 07:41:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.71] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jan 2006 07:41:54 -0000 Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 07:41:52 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000901c6145f$03be7560$77029a04@JoeyMeredith> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.54 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: Bill on "Henry Olcott's Testimony about His Meetings with the Master Morya" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=7ZjdmfaLE5uR1Qk9wvspNn4-5_IJIh79MTiRltxFofZwhMH3ifMBq5_m X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Bill, You wrote: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D These words from HS Olcott may give one pause to=20 consider whether Olcott thought one would be wise=20 to believe and accept the masters as real based on his or anyone's elses eye witness testimony. He=20 constantly asked for proof of what he, himself was=20 seeing and so perhaps should we. Either one has met a master and knows (and needs no written accounts=20 of the eye witness testimony of others) or one has=20 not met a master and therefore (despite reading a hundred eye witness testimonies of others)=20 one does not know but must rely instead on faith and=20 belief. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D When you write:=20 (1) "...Either one has met a master and knows...."=20 or=20 (2) "....one has not met a master and therefore.... one does not know but must rely instead on faith=20 and belief....": are you saying or suggesting that there are no other=20 alternative ways to view or approach this issue? Furthermore, when you use the phrase "...faith and=20 belief...", are you suggesting that EVERYTHING a person=20 doesn't know from direct observation can be relegated to the realm of "faith and belief"? How many events in the history books have any of us=20 personally witnessed? Are you suggesting that we should therefore say=20 that our so-called "knowledge" of such events should=20 be viewed as in the category of "faith and belief"? How much of the body of scientific knowledge have any=20 of us actually gained based on our own personal experience? Therefore does that mean our own "knowledge" of science is simply based on "faith and belief"?=20 Or take Gregory Tillett's recent statement about Jesus: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D That anyone in the 21st century would bother to assert=20 that Jesus did not exist is indeed extraordinary, given=20 the vast weight of scholarship (as opposed to "psychic revelation") that has been devoted to this question!=20 Scholars who are agnostics, humanists or atheists have=20 reached the conclusion that his existence is a simple matter of historical fact. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D In light of what you wrote, does that mean that=20 all these scholars' conclusions are in the same category=20 of "faith and belief" since none of them ever met the historical Jesus? Or take all of Paul Johnson's research in his 3 books.=20 In light of your statement and its implications, could we=20 conclude that whatever conclusions he came to, these=20 conclusions belong to the same realm of "faith and belief"? In summary, how much of what each of us "knows" is really=20 based on our personal observations and experiences and how=20 much of what we think we know is simply secondhand "knowledge"=20 which could be placed in this category of "faith and belief"? Maybe I am reading too much into your words. But these are=20 some of the questions that came to my mind as I read your=20 statements and pondered on their meaning, etc. Daniel http://hpb.cc From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sat Jan 14 00:20:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33280 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2006 08:20:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jan 2006 08:20:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.44) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jan 2006 08:20:29 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n10.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jan 2006 08:20:15 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.69] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jan 2006 08:20:15 -0000 Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 08:20:15 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.44 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: Did Jesus Exist? Did Morya Exist? & Other Questions X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=L244o71BFKTZ9Si24UCABc_SnVraiVKVHVl35RL43HZNxA9DRFE3s158 X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Comparing the evidence for Jesus as compared to the evidence for Morya or HPB's other Masters. Some questions to ponder on............ What is the evidence for the existence of Jesus? What is the evidence for the existence of Morya? What are the eyewitness accounts versus second hand accounts=20 for Jesus as compared to Morya? What is the quality of the evidence and the amount of evidence for Jesus as compared to Morya? Is there more evidence to support the existence of Jesus than of Morya?=20 or=20 Is there more evidence to support the existence of Morya than Jesus? IF one uses the SAME standard of evidence that is=20 used to assess the existence of Jesus to also assess the existence of Morya, what would be the conclusion? Daniel http://hpb.cc =20 From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sat Jan 14 00:32:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 635 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2006 08:32:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jan 2006 08:32:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.225) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jan 2006 08:32:45 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n5.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jan 2006 08:32:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jan 2006 08:32:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jan 2006 08:32:45 -0000 Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 08:32:45 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 216.155.203.225 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: "... our principal sources of knowledge about Jesus...." X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=IgFirdPF4SplvK2DYDbP8yaCED3goVjK22P86I7LhhvVOIDvuho9REjp X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell "... the four New Testament Gospels ... are our principal=20 sources of knowledge about Jesus...."=20 "....their authors do not claim to have been=20 eyewitnesses to the events they narrate." "Instead, they are writing several decades later,=20 telling stories that they have heard =97 stories that=20 have been in circulation for decades among the=20 followers of Jesus."=20 "The first step, then, is to determine what kinds=20 of books the Gospels are and to ascertain how reliable their=20 information about Jesus is."=20 "The question will be: Apart from their value as=20 religious documents of faith, what do the Gospels=20 tell historians?" =20 From dalval14@earthlink.net Sat Jan 14 04:36:19 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64848 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2006 12:36:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jan 2006 12:36:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.70) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jan 2006 12:36:18 -0000 Received: from [216.175.82.39] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1ExkdS-0004w5-EZ; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 07:35:59 -0500 To: "AA-BNStudy" , "AA-Carson" Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 04:35:38 -0800 Message-ID: <000b01c61907$0b8663a0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7921ecb6a8c7e4190133ecae489cce729c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: Re: GIANTS AND THEIR REMAINS X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=Ey0ftjX-Ad-1mbZXpNWAyeFfa8DsDHBw4gireOEpwxZA0A X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1/14/2006 4:19 AM GIANTS AND THEIR REMAINS We find in ISIS UNVEILED Vol. 1 pp. 303-5 the following:: "The whole Darwinian theory of natural selection is included in the first six chapters of the Book of Genesis. The "Man" of chapter i. is radically different from the "Adam" of chapter ii., for the former was created "male and female" - that is, bi-sexed - and in the image of God; while the latter, according to verse seven, was formed of the dust of the ground, and became "a living soul," after the Lord God "breathed into his nostrils the breath of life." Moreover, this Adam was a male being, and in verse twenty we are told that "there was not found a helpmeet for him." The Adonai, being pure spiritual entities, had no sex, or rather had both sexes united in themselves, like their Creator; and the ancients understood this so well that they represented many of their deities as of dual sex. The Biblical student must either accept this interpretation, or make the passages in the two chapters alluded to absurdly contradict each other. It was such literal acceptance of passages that warranted the atheists in covering the Mosaic account with ridicule, and it is the dead letter of the old text that begets the materialism of our age. Not only are these two races of beings thus clearly indicated in Genesis, but even a third and a fourth one are ushered before the reader in chapter iv., where the "sons of God" and the race of "giants" are spoken of. As we write, there appears in an American paper, The Kansas City Times, an account of important discoveries of the remains of a prehistorical race of giants, which corroborates the statements of the kabalists and the Bible allegories at the same time. It is worth preserving: --------------------------- FOOTNOTE ----------------------------------------------------- "In his researches among the forests of Western Missouri, Judge E. P. West has discovered a number of conical-shaped mounds, similar in construction to those found in Ohio and Kentucky. These mounds are found upon the high bluffs overlooking the Missouri River, the largest and more prominent being found in Tennessee, Mississippi, and Louisiana. Until about three weeks ago it was not suspected that the mound builders had made this region their home in the prehistoric days; but now it is discovered that this strange and extinct race once occupied this land, and have left an extensive graveyard in a number of high mounds upon the Clay County bluffs. "As yet, only one of these mounds has been opened. Judge West discovered a skeleton about two weeks ago, and made a report to other members of the society. They accompanied him to the mound, and not far from the surface excavated and took out the remains of two skeletons. The bones are very large - so large, in fact, when compared with an ordinary skeleton of modern date, they appear to have formed part of a giant. The head bones, such as have not rotted away, are monstrous in size. The lower jaw of one skeleton is in a state of preservation, and is double the size of the jaw of a civilized person. The teeth in this jawbone are large, and appear to have been ground down and worn away by contact with roots and carnivorous food. The jaw-bone indicates immense muscular strength. The thigh-bone, when compared with that of an ordinary modern skeleton, looks like that of a horse. The length, thickness, and muscular development are remarkable. But the most peculiar part about the skeleton is the frontal bone. It is very low, and differs radically from any ever seen in this section before. It forms one thick ridge of bone about one inch wide, extending across the eyes. It is a narrow but rather heavy ridge of bone which, instead of extending upward, as it does now in these days of civilization, receded back from the eyebrows, forming a flat head, and thus indicates a very low order of mankind. It is the opinion of the scientific gentlemen who are making these discoveries that these bones are the remains of a prehistoric race of men. They do not resemble the present existing race of Indians, nor are the mounds constructed upon any pattern or model known to have been in use by any race of men now in existence in America. The bodies are discovered in a sitting posture in the mounds, and among the bones are found stone weapons, such as flint knives, flint scrapers, and all of them different in shape to the arrow-heads, war-hatchets, and other stone tools and weapons known to have been in use by the aboriginal Indians of this land when discovered by the whites. The gentlemen who have these curious bones in charge have deposited them with Dr. Foe, on Main street. It is their intention to make further and closer researches in the mounds on the bluffs opposite this city. They will make a report of their labors at the next meeting of the Academy of Science, by which time they expect to be able to make some definite report as to their opinions. It is pretty definitely settled, however, that the skeletons are those of a race of men not now in existence." --------------------------------------------------------------------- The author of a recent and very elaborate work * finds some cause for merriment over the union of the sons of God with the "daughters of men," who were fair, as alluded to in Genesis, and described at great length in that wonderful legend, the Book of Enoch. More is the pity, that our most learned and liberal men do not employ their close and merciless logic to repair its one-sidedness by seeking the true spirit which dictated these allegories of old. This spirit was certainly more scientific than skeptics are yet prepared to admit. But with every year some new discovery may corroborate their assertions, until the whole of antiquity is vindicated. One thing, at least, has been shown in the Hebrew text, viz.: that there was one race of purely physical creatures, another purely spiritual. The evolution and "transformation of species" required to fill the gap between the two has been left to abler anthropologists. We can only repeat the philosophy of men of old, which says that the union of these two races produced a third - the Adamite race. Sharing the natures of both its parents, it is equally adapted to an existence in the material and spiritual worlds. Allied to the physical half of man's nature is reason, which enables him to maintain his supremacy over the lower animals, and to subjugate nature to his uses. Allied to his spiritual part is his conscience, which will serve as his unerring guide through the besetments of the senses; for conscience is that instantaneous perception between right and wrong, which can only be exercised by the spirit, which, being a portion of the Divine Wisdom and Purity, is absolutely pure and wise. Its promptings are independent of reason, and it can only manifest itself clearly, when unhampered by the baser attractions of our dual nature. " I U I pp. 303-5 Relative to GIANTS and to the duality of consciousness: The physical appearance does not necessarily denote the quality of the indwelling intelligence. Best wishes, Dallas [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@... Sat Jan 14 05:40:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@... X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 28880 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2006 13:40:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jan 2006 13:40:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.70) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jan 2006 13:40:58 -0000 Received: from [216.175.82.39] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Exle1-0005UK-I3; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 08:40:38 -0500 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 05:40:17 -0800 Message-ID: <001401c61910$136e6190$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79ee9df436d61cd5f98397d8217085c070350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: IN A BORROWED BODY -- TULKU ? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=iXeQS5pcCXUH1hycdc_EtGkGRIOPKpUibFRz75Hw9HAwsg X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 January 14, 2006 AN OCCULT NOVEL From: Letters That Have Helped Me by William Q. Judge=20 A tireless worker, Mr. Judge, was always proposing new modes of activity. One never knew what fresh idea would not emanate from his indefatigable mind. One idea with which he occupied some of his lighter moments, was that of an occult novel.=20 It was his idea that a friend of his [Jasper Niemand] should write this, from incidents and materials to be furnished by himself, and to this idea h= e adhered, even having the title copyrighted, with the name of his author, despite the laughing protests of this friend, to whose outcries and statements that she never could, and never should, write a novel, Mr. Judge would smilingly reply: "Oh, yes! You will do it when the time comes."=20 >From time to time he sent to this friend suggestions, incidents and other material for this novel, the same being on odds and ends of paper, often rough wrapping paper, and being jotted down under a lamp-post at night whil= e he waited for his tram, or in court while he waited for the case in which h= e was engaged to come up. On these scraps are also marginal notes, as he accepted or rejected the ideas of his own prolific mind. These notes are given here as such. It has been suggested that the recipient of these materials should still write the novel as proposed, but setting aside the fact that she could not be sure of properly rendering the real ideas of Mr. Judge, it is also thought that readers will much prefer to have the notes precisely as Mr. Judge set them down.=20 The printed title-page runs as follows:=20 IN A BORROWED BODY.=20 The Journey of a Soul.=20 By J. Campbell Ver-Planck, F. T. S.=20 1891.=20 The name is filled in in the writing of Mr. Judge, and there is this marginal note.=20 "Copyright gone to Washngn." (All "Notes" are to be understood as being marginal ones made by Mr. Judge unless otherwise stated.)=20 --------=20 MEMO. ABOUT Borrowed Body=20 The point on which it should all turn is not so much reincarnation as the use of a borrowed body, which is a different kind of reincarnation from tha= t of Arnold's Phra the Phoenician.=20 This will also give chance to show the other two sorts of reincarnation, e.g.: --=20 (a) Ordinary reincarnation in which there is no memory of the old personality, as the astral body is new -- and: (b) Exception as to astral body; but similarity of conception to that of ordinary cases, where the child retains the old astral body and hence memory of old personality and acquaintance with old knowledge and dexterity.=20 A Chapter: The Assembling of the Skandhas On the death of body the Kama principle collects the Skandhas in space, or at the rebirth of the Ego the Skandhas rush together and assemble about it to go with it in the new life.=20 Another: The Unveiling of the Sun=20 There is the real and unreal sun. The real one is hidden by a golden vase, and the devotee prays:=20 "Unveil, O Pushan, the true Sun's face," etc. A voice (or other) says "thou art that vase" and then he knows that he alone hides the true Sun from himself.=20 Pushan is the guide and watches on the path to the Sun.=20 The eulogy of the Sun and the Soul are enshrined in a golden rose or lotus in the heart which is impregnable.=20 The theme of the book is not always teacher and pupil.=20 He first strives for some lives ordinarily and then in one he grows old and wise, and sitting before a temple one day in Madura he dies slowly, and lik= e a dissolving view he sees the adepts around him aiding him; also a small child which seems to be himself, and then thick darkness. He is born then i= n the usual way.=20 Twice this is repeated, each time going through the womb but with the same astral body.=20 Then he lives the third life to forty-nine, and comes again to die and with the same aid he selects a foreign child who is dying.=20 Child dying. Skandhas collecting, child's Ego going -- left, spark of life low: relatives about bed.=20 He enters by the way the mind went out and revivifies the body. Recovery, youth, etc., etc.=20 This is his borrowed body.=20 MEMO. No. 2 A couple of Incidents for the Book=20 A round tower used by the fire worshippers in Ireland and other isles in early ages. A temple is attached to it; quaint structure -- one priest and one neophyte.=20 People below the tower coming into the temple grounds as the religion is in its decadence.=20 On the top of the tower is the neophyte, who in the face of the prevailing scepticism clings to the dead faith and to the great priest. His duty is to keep a fire on the tower burning with aromatic woods. He leans over the fire; it burns badly; the wood seems green; he blows it up; it burns slightly; he hears the voices of the disputers and sellers below; goes to the tower and gazes over while the fire goes slowly out. He is a young man of singular expression, not beautiful but powerful face; intense eyes, long dark hair, and far gazing eyes of a greyish colour unusual for such hair. Skin clear with a shifting light flowing from it. Sensitive face; blushes easily but now and then stern. As he still gazes the fire goes out. Just then a tall old man comes up the stairs and stands upon the tower top at opposite side, looking at the fire and then at the young man and withdraws not his gaze for an instant. It is a sternly powerful drawing look. He is very tall, dark brown eyes, grey hair, long beard. The young man feels his look and turns about and sees the fire out completely, while its last small cloud of smoke is floating off beyond the tower. They look at each other. I= n the young's man face you see the desperate first impulse to excuse, and the= n the sudden thought that excuses are useless because childish, for he knew his duty -- to keep the small spiral of smoke ever connecting heaven with earth, in the hope, however vain, that thus the old age might be charmed to return. The old man raises his hand, points away from the tower and says "go." Young man descends.=20 II. A battle. -- In the hottest a young soldier armed to the teeth, fightin= g as if it made no matter whether he win or lose, die or live. Strange weapons, sounds and clouds.=20 Wounded, blood flowing. It is the young man of the tower. He sinks down taken prisoner. In a cell, condemned, for they fear his spiritual power. Conflict between the last remnant of the old religion and the new, selfish faith.=20 Taken to his execution. Two executioners. They bind him standing and stand behind and at side; each holds a long straight weapon with a curved blunt blade, curved to (fit?) about the neck. They stand at opposite sides, place those curved blunt blades holding his neck like two crooks. They pull -- a sickening sound: his head violently pulled out close to the shoulder leaves a jagged edge. The body sways and falls. It was the way they made such a violent exit for a noble soul as they thought would keep it bound in the astral earth sphere for ages.=20 III. That young man again. He approaches an old man (of the tower). Young one holds parchments and flowers in his hand, points to parchments and asks explanation. Old one says, "Not now; when I come again I will tell you."=20 Note. -- Keep this, Julius.=20 W. Q. J. Z. L. Z.=20 --------=20 The next batch of notes is headed by the single word: "Book." Then follow four lines of shorthand. After these the words:=20 "Incidents showing by picture his life in other ages; the towers; the battle; the death; the search for knowledge and the sentiment expressed in the flowers."=20 Eusebio Rodrigues de Undiano was a notary in Spain who found among the effects of his father many old parchments written in a language which was unknown to him. He discovered it was Arabic, and in order to decipher them learned that tongue. They contained the story.=20 Note. -- No initiates; Lytton only.=20 Eusebio de Undiano is only one of the old comrades reborn in Spain who searches like Nicodemus for the light.=20 Note. -- Yes.=20 Eusebio de Undiano finds in his father's parchments confirmation of what th= e possession of the body has often told him.=20 Note. -- Yes.=20 This person in the body never gave his name to anyone and has no name.=20 An autobiographical story? No? Yes!=20 Related by one who was struck; by an admirer who suspected something? No; because that is hearsay evidence; the proof is incomplete, whereas he relating it himself is either true, or a mere insane fancy. It is better to be insane than be another's tool.=20 Stick to the tower and the head-chopping business. Let him be that young ma= n and after the head loss he wanders in Kama Loca and there he sees the old man who was killed on the tower soon after the fire went out. The old man tells him that he will tell all when they return to earth.=20 He wanders about the tower vicinity seeking a birth, until one day he sees vague shapes suddenly appearing and disappearing. They are not dressed like his countrymen down below on the earth. This goes on. They seem friendly an= d familiar, the one requesting him to go with them, he refuses. They are more powerful than he is yet they do not compel him but show him their power. On= e day one was talking to him; he again refuses unless something might show hi= m that he ought to go. Just then he hears a bell sound, such as he never hear= d before. It vibrates through him and seems to open up vistas of the strange past, and in a moment he consents to go.=20 They reach Southern India and there he sees the old man of the tower, whom he addresses, and again asks the burning question about the parchment. The old man says again the same as before and adds that he had better come agai= n into the world in that place.=20 The darkness and silence. The clear, hot day. The absence of rain. After listening to the old man he consents inwardly to assume life there and soon a heavy storm arises, the rain beats, he feels himself carried to the earth and in deep darkness.=20 A resounding noise about him. It is the noise of the growing plants. This i= s a rice field with some sesamum in it. The moisture descends and causes the expanding; sees around, all is motion and life. Inclosed in the sphere of some rice, he bemoans his fate. He is born in a Brahmin's house.=20 Note. -- Shall the question of reincarnation through cloud and rain and see= d and thus from the seed of the man, be gone into?=20 He is the young man. He knows much. He dies at nineteen. Strange forms around his bed who hold him. They carry him back to the land of the towers. He recognises it again and sees that ages have passed since the fire went out, and in the air he perceives strange shapes and sees incessantly a hand as of Fate, pointing to that Island. The towers are gone, the temples and the monuments. All is altered.=20 They take him to a populous city and as he approaches he sees over one hous= e a great commotion in the air. Shapes moving. Bright flashes, and puffs as o= f smoke. They enter the room, and on the bed is the form of a young boy given up to die, with relatives weeping. His guides ask him if he will borrow tha= t body about to be deserted and use it for the good of their Lodge. He consents. They warn him of the risks and dangers.=20 The boy's breathing ceases and his eyes close, and a bright flash is seen t= o go off from it (the body). He sees the blood slowing down. THEY push him, and he feels dark again. Boy revives. Physician takes hope. "Yes; he will recover, with care." He recovers easily. Change in his character. Feels strange in his surroundings, etc.=20 The place in India where he went after death which was again sudden (how?).= =20 A large white building. Gleaming marble. Steps. Pillars. A hole that has yellowish glow that looks like water. Instruction as to the work to be done= , and the journey to the land of the tower, in search of a body to borrow. As to bodies being deserted by the tenant that might live if well understood and well connected with a new soul. The difference between such a birth and an ordinary birth where the soul really owns the body, and between those bodies of insane people which are not deserted, but where the owner really lives outside. Bodies of insane are not used because the machine itself is out of order, and would be useless to the soul of a sane person.=20 Note. -- Julius; keep these. I will send them now and then. But before you go away, return to me so I can keep the run of it. May change the scheme. The motive is in the title I gave you.=20 Note. -- No one who has not consciously lived the double life of a man who is in the use and possession of a body not his own can know the agony that so often falls to one in such a case. I am not the original owner of this body that I now use.=20 It was made for another, and for some little time used by him, but in the storm of sickness he left it here to be buried, and it would have been laid away in the earth if I had not taken it up, vivified its failing energies and carried it through some years of trial by sickness and accident. But th= e first owner had not been in it long enough to sow any troublesome seeds of disease; he left a heritage of good family blood and wonderful endurance.=20 That he should have left this form so well adapted for living, at least seems inconceivable, unless it was that he could not use it, sick or well, for any of his own purposes. At any rate it is mine now, but while at first I thought it quite an acquisition there are often times when I wish I had not thus taken another man's frame, but had come into life in the ordinary way. =20 A Couple of Incidents for the Book Incident of the letter and picture.=20 There was a very curious old man (sufficient description to add).=20 Sent a small cardboard in which was a picture, a head, and over it appeared to be placed a thin sheet of paper, gummed over the sides to the back. He asked if I could tell him anything of the picture which was visible through the thin paper. Having great curiosity, I lifted up the thin paper, and at once there seemed to be printed off from its underside a red circle surrounding the head on the board. In one instance this circle turned black and so did the entire inside space including the head which was then obliterated. In the other the red circle seemed to get on fire inward, and then the whole included portion burned up. On examining the thin paper on underside there were traces of a circle, as if with paste.=20 He laughed and said that curiosity was not always rewarded.=20 Took it to several chemists in Paris, who said that they knew of no substance that would do this. The old chemist in Ireland said a very destructive thing called Fluorine might be liberated thus and do it, but that it was only a thing with chemists and analysts.=20 (Note by the compiler. -- In his travels Mr. Judge met many strange people and saw some extraordinary sights. Now and again he would tell one of these to be included in the novel, but just in this unfinished and vague way. Whe= n asked to tell more, he would smile and shake his head, saying: "No, No; little brothers must finish it.")=20 Another Incident=20 The temple on the site of the present city of Conjeveram was about to be consecrated and the regular priests were all ready for the ceremony. Minor ceremonies had taken place at the laying of the corner-stone, but this was to exceed that occasion in importance.=20 A large body of worshippers were gathered not for the gratification of curiosity, but in order to receive the spiritual benefits of the occasion and they filled the edifice so that I could not get inside. I was thus compelled to stand just at the edge of the door, and that was, as I afterwards found out, the best place I could have selected if I had known i= n advance what was to take place.=20 A few days before a large number of wandering ascetics had arrived and camped on a spot near the temple, but no one thought much of it because use= d to seeing such people. There was nothing unnatural about these men, and all that could be said was that a sort of mysterious air hung about them, and one or two children declared that on one evening none of the visitors could be found at their camp nor any evidence that men had been there, but they were not believed, because the ascetics were there as usual the next morning.=20 Two old men in the city said that the visitors were Devas in their "illusionary form," but there was too much excitement about the dedication to allow much thought on the subject. The event, however, proved the old me= n right.=20 At the moment when the people in the temple were expecting the priests to arrive, the entire body of ascetics appeared at the door with a wonderful looking sage like man at their head, and they entered the edifice in the usual formal way of the priests and the latter on arriving made no disturbance, but took what places they could, simply saying: "they are the Devas."=20 The strangers went on with the ceremonies, and all the while a light filled the building and music from the air floated over the awestruck worshippers.= =20 When the time came for them to go they all followed the leader in silence t= o the door. I could see inside, and as I was at the door could also see outside.=20 All the ascetics came to the entrance but not one was seen to go beyond it, and none were ever perceived by any man in the city again.=20 They melted away at the threshold. It was their last appearance, for the shadow of the dark age was upon the people, preventing such sights for the future. The occurrence was the topic of conversation for years, and it was all recorded in the archives of the city.=20 IN A BORROWED BODY I must tell you first what happened to me in this present life since it is in this one that I am relating to you about many other lives of mine.=20 I was a simple student of our high Philosophy for many lives on earth in various countries, and then at last developed in myself a desire for action= . So I died once more as so often before and was again reborn in the family o= f a Rajah, and in time came to sit on his throne after his death.=20 Two years after that sad event one day an old wandering Brahmin came to me and asked if I was ready to follow my vows of long lives before, and go to do some work for my old master in a foreign land. Thinking this meant a journey only I said I was.=20 "Yes," said he, "but it is not only a journey. It will cause you to be here and there all days and years. Today here, tonight there."=20 "Well," I replied, "I will do even that, for my vows had no conditions and master orders."=20 I knew of the order, for the old Brahmin gave me the sign marked on my forehead. He had taken my hand, and covering it with his waist-cloth, trace= d the sign in my palm under the cloth so that it stood out in lines of light before my eyes.=20 He went away with no other word, as you know they so often do, leaving me i= n my palace. I fell asleep in the heat, with only faithful Gopal beside me. I dreamed and thought I was at the bedside of a mere child, a boy, in a foreign land unfamiliar to me only that the people looked like what I knew of the Europeans. The boy was lying as if dying, and relatives were all about the bed.=20 A strange and irresistible feeling drew me nearer to the child, and for a moment I felt in this dream as if I were about to lose consciousness. With = a start I awoke in my own palace -- on the mat where I had fallen asleep, wit= h no one but Gopal near and no noise but the howling of jackals near the edge of the compound.=20 "Gopal," I said, "how long have I slept?"=20 "Five hours, master, since an old Brahmin went away, and the night is nearl= y gone, master."=20 I was about to ask him something else when again sleepiness fell upon my senses, and once more I dreamed of the small dying foreign child.=20 The scene had changed a little, other people had come in, there was a docto= r there, and the boy looked to me, dreaming so vividly, as if dead. The peopl= e were weeping, and his mother knelt by the bedside. The doctor laid his head on the child's breast a moment. As for myself I was drawn again nearer to the body and thought surely the people were strange not to notice me at all= . They acted as if no stranger were there, and I looked at my clothes and saw they were eastern and bizarre to them. A magnetic line seemed to pull me to the form of the child.=20 And now beside me I saw the old Brahmin standing. He smiled.=20 "This is the child," he said, "and here must you fulfill a part of your vows. Quick now! There is no time to lose, the child is almost dead. These people think him already a corpse. You see the doctor has told them the fatal words, 'he is dead!'"=20 Yes, they were weeping. But the old Brahmin put his hands on my head, and submitting to his touch, I felt myself in my dream falling asleep. A dream in a dream. But I woke in my dream, but not on my mat with Gopal near me. I was that boy, I thought. I looked out through his eyes, and near me I heard= , as if his soul had slipped off to the ether with a sigh of relief. The doctor turned once more and I opened my eyes -- his eyes -- on him.=20 The physician started and turned pale. To another I heard him whisper "automatic nerve action." He drew near, and the intelligence in that eye startled him to paleness. He did not see the old Brahmin making passes over this body I was in and from which I felt great waves of heat and life rolling over me -- or the boy.=20 And yet this all now seemed real as if my identity was merged in the boy.=20 I was that boy and still confused, vague dreams seemed to flit through my brain of some other plane where I thought I was again, and had a faithful servant named Gopal; but that must be dream, this the reality. For did I no= t see my mother and father, the old doctor and the nurse so long in our house with the children. Yes; of course this is the reality.=20 And then I feebly smiled, whereon the doctor said:=20 "Most marvellous. He has revived. He may live."=20 He was feeling the slow moving pulse and noting that breathing began and that vitality seemed once more to return to the child, but he did not see the old Brahmin in his illusionary body sending air currents of life over the body of this boy, who dreamed he had been a Rajah with a faithful servant named Gopal. Then in the dream sleep seemed to fall upon me. A sensation of falling, falling came to my brain, and with a start I awoke in my palace on my own mat. Turning to see if my servant was there I saw him standing as if full of sorrow or fear for me.=20 "Gopal, how long have I slept again?"=20 "It is just morning, master, and I feared you had gone to Yama's dominions and left your own Gopal behind."=20 No, I was not sleeping. This was reality, these my own dominions. So this day passed as all days had except that the dream of the small boy in a foreign land came to my mind all day until the night when I felt more drows= y than usual. Once more I slept and dreamed.=20 The same place and the same house, only now it was morning there. What a strange dream I thought I had had; as the doctor came in with my mother and bent over me, I heard him say softly:=20 "Yes, he will recover. The night sleep has done good. Take him, when he can go, to the country, where he may see and walk on the grass."=20 As he spoke behind him I saw the form of a foreign looking man with a turba= n on. He looked like the pictures of Brahmins I saw in the books before I fel= l sick. Then I grew very vague and told my mother: "I had had two dreams for two nights, the same in each. I dreamed I was a king and had one faithful servant for whom I was sorry as I liked him very much, and it was only a dream, and both were gone."=20 My mother soothed me, and said: "Yes, yes, my dear."=20 And so that day went as days go with sick boys, and early in the evening I fell fast asleep as a boy in a foreign land, in my dream, but did no more dream of being a king, and as before I seemed to fall until I woke again on my mat in my own palace with Gopal sitting near. Before I could rise the ol= d Brahmin, who had gone away, came in and I sent Gopal off.=20 "Rama," said he, "as boy you will not dream of being Rajah but now you must know that every night as sleeping king you are waking boy in foreign land. Do well your duty and fail not. It will be some years, but Time's never-stopping car rolls on. Remember my words," and then he passed through the open door.=20 So I knew those dreams about a sick foreign boy were not mere dreams but that they were recollections, and I condemned each night to animate that small child just risen from the grave, as his relations thought, but I knew that his mind for many years would not know itself, but would ever feel strange in its surroundings, for, indeed, that boy would be myself inside and him without, his friends not seeing that he had fled away and another taken his place.=20 Each night I, as sleeping Rajah who had listened to the words of sages, would be an ignorant foreign boy, until through lapse of years and effort unremittingly continued I learned how to live two lives at once. Yet horrible at first seemed the thought that although my life in that foreign land as a growing youth would be undisturbed by vague dreams of independent power as Rajah, I would always, when I woke on my mat, have a clear remembrance of what at first seemed only dreams of being a king, with vivid knowledge that while my faithful servant watched my sleeping form I would b= e masquerading in a borrowed body, unruly as the wind.=20 Thus as a boy I might be happy, but as a king miserable maybe. And then after I should become accustomed to this double life, perhaps my foreign mind and habits would so dominate the body of the boy that existence there would grow full of pain from the struggle with an environment wholly at war with the thinker within.=20 But a vow once made is to be fulfilled, and Father Time eats up all things and ever the centuries.=20 From: LETTERS THAT HAVE HELPED Me=20 by=20 W. Q. Judge =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D A valuable account of several reincarnation processes, Best wishes, Dallas =20 From meredith_bill@earthlink.net Sat Jan 14 06:33:42 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: meredith_bill@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51691 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2006 14:33:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Jan 2006 14:33:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pop-borzoi.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (207.69.195.70) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jan 2006 14:33:41 -0000 Received: from dialup-4.153.86.155.dial1.atlanta1.level3.net ([4.153.86.155] helo=JoeyMeredith) by pop-borzoi.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1ExmPj-0004bq-00 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 09:29:56 -0500 Message-ID: <001401c61916$fd1f0000$9b569904@JoeyMeredith> To: References: Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 09:29:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 207.69.195.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Bill Meredith" Subject: Re: Theos-World Bill on "Henry Olcott's Testimony about His Meetings with the Master Morya" X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=191212763; y=2pWmxVPe6nZwS9RR--Q3aeuuSR-W3FeGiXR4V4vHseyCcAqARxemuY8 X-Yahoo-Profile: meredith_bille Daniel, It should be obvious to you that a historian and a philosopher will have different understandings of what constitutes knowledge and truth. I will point you to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemology and ask you to refresh your memory about something which you probably already know. Pay particular attention to "a priori vs a posteriori" knowledge, if you will. If your purpose is to understand what I have written about Olcott's testimony, I believe that this review of definitions will help you to achieve your own understanding without any further help from me. If, however, your goal is something other than a desire to understand my perspective in the context in which it was given, then I will need you to share a bit of your own perspective. For instance, when Olcott says, "What I have seen and experienced is, therefore, very satisfactory to myself, though mainly valueless to others" how do you justify presenting what he said as though it should have some significant value to others? He told you it was mainly valueless. If you will answer the questions you asked me from your own perspective, we can begin a dialogue. If you do not wish to share your perspective on your own questions, then, as a philosopher, I do not choose to be interrogated by a historian for interrogation's sake. peace, bill From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun Jan 15 03:30:20 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82045 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2006 11:30:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jan 2006 11:30:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.70) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 2006 11:30:19 -0000 Received: from [216.175.82.39] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Ey65H-0005oJ-IM; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 06:30:07 -0500 To: "'Theosophy Study List'" Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 03:29:52 -0800 Message-ID: <005601c619c7$04f1ce60$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79bf0f25aa23b39d162223e6b317fcc49e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: The Primordial Purity of the Universe - part 1 ~ ~ ~ X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=6GBIhreAAYp6PlOsxsbEmZ__UDioJMifFvp9l5jxfPvQhQ X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/15/2006 3:24 AM Dear Mauri, You ought to sample it -- read through HPB's ISIS UNVEILED -- look for it on line at PHOENIX ULT www.phx-ult-lodge.org/ Original Texts, etc. "on line" You will find it a mine of information about "anomalies" also, I hope, entertaining and useful. Best wishes, Dallas ------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Mauri Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 1:16 PM To: Subject: Re: The Primordial Purity of the Universe - part 1 ~ ~ ~ snip From AnandGholap@AnandGholap.org Sun Jan 15 03:44:55 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: AnandGholap@AnandGholap.org X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45818 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2006 11:44:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jan 2006 11:44:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smx2.net4india.com) (202.71.129.73) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 2006 11:44:54 -0000 Received: from [219.91.152.100] (helo=anand) by smx2.net4india.com with smtp (Exim 4.51) id 1Ey6JW-0007Ht-Ty for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 17:14:51 +0530 Message-ID: To: Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 17:07:21 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Originating-IP: 202.71.129.73 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Anand Gholap" Reply-To: Subject: Initiation (AnandGholap.Net-Online Theosophy) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=187713566; y=d_f_eR6jDv_vn1PzuP0hNVV_YPxQtEba8EjSndJ6xZOKTQTjaNWtId0 X-Yahoo-Profile: anandgholap_net [ http://www.AnandGholap.net - Online Books on Theosophy ] " Now that we have hastily glanced at the steps of the Probationary Period,= we must emphasize the point to which reference was made at the commencemen= t - that the perfect attainment of these accomplishments and qualifications= is not expected at this early stage. As Mohini says: =93If all these are e= qually strong, Adept=ADship is attained in the same incarnation,=94 but suc= h a [5] result is, of course, extremely rare. It is in the direction of the= se acquirements that the candidate must cease=ADlessly strive, but it would= be an error to suppose that no one has been admitted to the next step with= out possessing all of them in the fullest possible degree. It is obvious that, as far as we have gone, a man might easily be working a= long the Path unconsciously to himself, and no doubt many a good Christian,= many an earnest Freethinker, is already far on the road that will lead him= to Initiation, though he may never have heard the word =93Occultism=94 in = his life. I mention these two classes specially, because in every other rel= igion occult development is recognized as a possibil=ADity, and would certa= inly therefore be intentionally sought by those who felt yearnings for some= thing more satisfactory than the exoteric faiths. We must also note that the steps of this Probationary Period are not separa= ted by Initiations in the full sense of the word, though they will certainl= y be studded with tests and trials of all sorts and on all planes, and may = be relieved by encouraging experi=ADences, and by hints and help whenever t= hese may safely be given. We are apt sometimes to use the word Initiation s= omewhat loosely-as, for example, when it is applied to such tests as have j= ust been mentioned; properly speaking it refers only to those solemn ceremo= nies at which a Pupil is formally admitted to a higher grade by an appointe= d Official, who in the name of the Occult Hierarchy receives his plighted v= ow, and puts into his hands the new key of knowledge [6] which he is to use= on the level to which he has now attained. Such an Initiation is taken at = the entrance to the division which we shall next consider, and also at each= passage from any one of its steps to the next. " Complete book can be read at http://www.anandgholap.net/Some_Fundamental_Teachings-CWL.htm From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun Jan 15 04:05:37 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48151 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2006 12:05:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jan 2006 12:05:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.70) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 2006 12:05:36 -0000 Received: from [216.175.82.39] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Ey6cv-00041r-Te; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 07:04:54 -0500 To: Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 04:04:42 -0800 Message-ID: <005901c619cb$e0343090$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79a4290bcf1b5b6b96848ebbaf113bde1b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: [theosophia] Re: In a borrowed body is not the fact: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=SuRVAwdZotnj_60nVjUlHoVMDyluWkuQjWDBfIxlApgU9Q X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/15/2006 3:30 AM=09=20 Re: In a borrowed body is not the fact: Dear Steve: You are right about Judge. There was a Nirmanakaya there. {see below)=20 But the story shows how a human intelligence can be "transplanted" so to sa= y in special cases -- "Tulku" gives instances of such processes.=20 Judge showed how such an extraordinary case could we usefully employed. It is not normal reincarnation, but is the importing of a fully developed Personality and Individuality (dual Manas) but no Physical Body into a physical vehicle which is being abandoned (permanently or temporarily) by its normal occupant.=20 That's as I understand it. Dallas PS ---------------------------------------- H. P. B. to Mr. Judge on NIRMANAKAYA RESIDING WITHIN HIM. =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Ostende, Oct. 3, 1886 "The trouble with you is that you do not know the great change that came to pass in you a few years ago. Others have occasionally their astrals changed and replaced by those of Adepts (as of Elementaries) and they influence the outer, and the higher man. With you, it is the NIRMANAKAYA not the 'astral= ' that is blended with your astral. Hence the dual nature and fighting." -- HPB WQJ BIOGRAPHY, Eek & DE ZIRCOV, p. 19; B.C.W. Vol. VII, p. xxvii, 138; THEOS. FORUM (Pt. Loma), Aug. 15, 1932, p. 253; --------------------------------------------------- "If W.Q.Judge, the man who has done most for Theosophy in America, who has worked most unselfishly in your country, and has ever done the bidding of Master, the best he knew how, is left alone...then I say--let them go ! They are no Theosophists: and if such a thing should happen, and Judge be left to fight his battles alone, then I shall bid all of them an eternal good-bye. I swear on MASTER'S holy name to shake off the dust of my feet from every one of them ... I am unable to realize that at the hour of trouble and supreme fight ... any true Theosophist should hesitate for one moment to back W.Q.J. publicly and lodge in his or her protest. Let them read Masters' letter in the preliminary ... All that I said about W.Q.J. wa= s from His words in His letter to me ... Do with this letter what you like. Show it to anyone you please as my firm determination ..." --HPB LETTERS THAT HAVE HELPED ME, (ULT) p. 277 [Theosophy Vol. 3, p. 417] ------------------------------------------------------- Mr. Judge once wrote of H.P.B.'s having shown him "where the designs for th= e work had been hidden," and again of her having laid down "the lines of forc= e all over the land." It is clear that the methods adopted by H.P.B. were no= t empiric but conformed to a plan clearly visualized by the Masters. T M 25-182 The implementation of the plan depended primarily upon the work of H.P.B., but depended and still depends secondarily upon the efforts of those with sufficient intuition to glimpse something of its outline.=20=20 Of those in the public eye, perhaps only two, W. Q. Judge and Damodar K. Mavalankar, did so immediately, while the remainder were attracted by one o= r more of the Three Objects without at first grasping much of their deeper import.=20=20=20 As early as April 1880, in "The Theosophist," it was stated in the revised Rules and By-Laws that the Society consisted of three Sections:=20=20 The first was "exclusively of proficients or initiates in Esoteric Science or Philosophy," who took a deep interest in the Society;=20=20 the second was of Theosophists who had "proved their fidelity, zeal and courage and their devotion to the Society," that they had become able to regard all men as equally their brothers, and who were "ready to defend the life and honor of a brother Theosophist" at whatever risk to themselves; = =20 the third was of Probationers, who remained such until their purpose to remain in the Society had become fixed, their usefulness had been shown and their ability to conquer evil habits and unwarrantable prejudices had been demonstrated." T M, v. 25, p. 182 ------------------------------------------ [ April 3rd. 1888 ]=20 "To: William Q. Judge,=20=20=20=20 General Secretary of the American Section of the=20 Theosophical Society. MY DEAREST BROTHER AND=20 CO-FOUNDER OF THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY: In addressing to you this letter, which I request you to read to the convention summoned for April 22nd, [1888] ... We were several, to call it to life in 1875. Since then you have remained alone to preserve that life through good and evil report.=20=20 It is to you chiefly, if not entirely, that the Theosophical Society owes its existence in 1888. Let me then thank you for it, for the first and perhaps the last, time publicly, and from the bottom of my heart, which beats only for the cause you represent so well and serve so faithfully. I ask you to remember that, on this occasion, my voice is but the feeble echo of other more sacred voices, and the transmitter of the approval of Those whose presence is aliv= e in more than one true Theosophical heart, and lives, as I know, pre-eminently in yours. ..." -- HPB H.P.B.'s 1st Message to the American Theosophists. April l888. PROCEEDINGS OF THE CONVENTION, LETTERS THAT HAVE HELPED ME, p. 276-7, U. L .T, Los Angeles= , l946 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3. KNOW DARE SAT WILL SILENCE =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 ESOTERIC TS SECTION=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Dec 14 l888 "As head of the Esoteric Section of the Theosophical Society I hereby declare that William Q. Judge, of New York, U.S., in virtue of his characte= r as a chela of thirteen years' standing, and of the trust and confidence reposed in him, is my only representative for said Section in America, and he is the sole channel through whom will be sent and received all communications between the members of said Section and myself, and to him full faith, confidence and credit in that regard are to be given.=20 Done at London this fourteenth day in December, 1888, and in the fourteenth year of the Theosophical Society." [ SEAL ] H. P. BLAVATSKY =C4 S A T THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT, Vol. I, p. 17; WQJ BIOGRAPHY, Eek & de Zircov p. 16-17; EST CIRCULAR, May 27, l891, (Pt. Loma) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= - -- [ Oct. 23, 1889 ] "He or she, who believes that under any circumstances whatever, provocations, gossips, slander or anything devised by the enemy, H.P.B. wil= l ever dream even of going against W.Q.J.--does not know H.P.B.--even if he o= r she does know H.P.Blavatsky, or thinks he knows her. "The idea is absurd & preposterous. "If W.Q.J. gets riled under any provocation--for more than five minutes by the city clock, then he is a flap-doodle. H.P.B. would give 7 dozens of Bridges, 77 dozens of Noyses, the whole esoteric brood in the U.S.A. for one W.Q.J. who is part of herself for several eons. Those having ears will hear, those who are deaf & blind, let them provide themselves with false ears & glass eyes, or--vanish away. "The Esoteric Section and its life in the U.S.A. depends on W.Q.J. remainin= g its agent & what he is now. The day W.Q. J. resigns, H.P.B. will be virtually dead for the Americans. W.Q.J. is the Antaskarana between the tw= o Manas (es), the American thought & the Indian--or rather the trans-Himalaya= n Esoteric Knowledge. DIXI." =20 H.P.B.=20 P.S. W.Q.J. had better show, & impress this on the minds of all those whom it may concern." (H.P.B.) WQJ BIOGRAPHY, Eek & de Zircov, p. 20-21. LETTERS THAT HAVE HELPED ME, (ULT), p. 277-8=20=20 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= - . "Ingratitude is a crime in Occultism, and I shall illustrate the point by citing the case of W.Q.Judge. He is one of the three founders of the Theosophical Society, the only three who have remained as true as rock to the cause. While others have all turned deserters or enemies, he has ever remained faithful to his original pledge ... He is the Resuscitator of Theosophy in the United States, and is working to the best of his means and ability, and at a great sacrifice, for the spread of the movement... Brothe= r Judge refuses to defend himself (*)... But is that a reason why we should let him go undefended ? It is our bounden duty to support him, in every way... Let our protest be on merely defensive lines, and not of an aggressive character. For, if the spirit of Theosophy does not permit aggressiveness being used, yet it does demand in some cases active defense, and it does impose on everyone the duty of taking an active interest in the welfare of a brother, especially of a persecuted brother, as Mr. Judge is now ... " =20 -- H. P. Blavatsky. THEOS. MVT., Vol. 5, p. 65 WQJ BIOGRAPHY, Eek & de Zircov, p. 22 _________________________ FN, (*) Mr. Judge was being attacked by Dr. Coues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= - ------ Ostende, July 1886 "Well, sir, and my only friend, the crisis is nearing. I am ending my Secre= t Doctrine, and you are going to replace me, or take my place in America. I know you will have success if you do not lose heart; but do, do remain tru= e to the Masters and Their Theosophy and the names ... May They help you and allow us to send you our best blessings. " -- HPB [letter continued] I am offered any amount of money, an income, board, lodging, all free to come to America and work without you, i.e., against...= I rather lose the whole American lot to the last man, X---- included, than YOU. Perhaps soon now, they will know why...Now be so kind as to write to me plainly (so that I can read) what you expect me to do and what I must no= t do. And I give you my word that I shall follow your instructions. Let us understand each other, mutually. But till now no one ever said to me a wor= d about you asking to do this or that. Write to me direct and I will do it. Goodbye my Irish crocodile, and may Master protect you." -- H. P. Blavatsky "SHE BEING DEAD YET SPEAKETH"=20=20 HPB ARTICLES, (ULT), Vol. I, 121. LETTERS THAT HAVE HELPED ME, p. 280. COLLECTED. WORKS of H.P. BLAVATSKY, V. 7, p. xxvii ------------------------------------------------------ "If I thought for one moment that Lucifer will 'rub out' Path I would never consent to be the editor. But listen, then, my good old friend. Once that the Masters have proclaimed your Path the best, the most theosophical of al= l theosophical publications, surely it is not to allow it to be rubbed out ..= . One is the fighting combative Manas: the other (Path) is pure Buddhi ... Lucifer will be Theosophy militant and Path the shining light, the Star of Peace. If your intuition does not whisper to you 'IT IS SO,' then that intuition must be wool-gathering. No, sir, the Path is too well, too theosophically edited for me to interfere." -- HPB LETTERS, p. 281 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D "I trust Judge more than anyone in the world ... He has numerous enemies wh= o work against him underhand and openly too, as --- does. Now I have to hold in check and counterwork their machinations when they write or say to Olcot= t that Judge is a liar, etc. Now this is a ____ lie ... I am thinking of going to U.S. with Annie Besant when the spirit moveth me." --HPB LETTERS THAT HAVE HELPED ME, (ULT), p. 281 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D [ 1888 ]=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 "Well, my only friend, you ought to know better. Look into my life and try to realize it--in its outer course at least, as the rest is hidden. I am under the curse of ever writing, as the wandering Jew was under that of being ever on the move, never stopping one moment to rest. Three ordinary healthy persons could hardly do what I have to do. I live an artificial life; I am an automaton running full steam until the power of generating steam stops, and then--good-bye ! ...=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20 Night before last I was shown a bird's eye-view of the Theosophical Societies. I saw a few earnest reliable Theosophists in a death struggle with the world in general, with other--nominal but ambitious--Theosophists. The former are greater in number than you may think, and they prevailed, as you in America will prevail, if you only remain staunch to the Master's programme and true to yourselves. And last night I saw /\ and now I feel strong--such as I am in my body--and ready to fight for Theosophy and the few true ones to my last breath, The defending forces have to be judiciously--so scanty they are--distributed over the globe, wherever Theosophy is struggling against the powers of darkness." --H. P. Blavatsky [Letter continued] "Is Judge ready to help me to carry on the sacrifice--that of accepting and carrying on the burden of life, which is heavy? My choice is made and I will not go back on it. I remain in England in the midst of the howling wolves. Here I am needed and nearer to America; there in Adyar there are dark plots going on against me and poor Olcott." -- H. P. Blavatsky LETTERS THAT HAVE HELPED ME, p. 281-2, LUCIFER VIII, p. 291, "YOURS TILL DEATH AND AFTER." WQJ ARTICLES (ULT), II, p.2 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D "Take my place in America now and, after I am gone, at Adyar. If you have no more personal ambition than I have-- and I know you have not, only combativeness--then this will be no more sacrifice for you than it was for me to have Olcott as my President. ... I am yours truly in the work forever= . Dispose of me. I will ... help you with all my powers ..." "Well, I have raised a 'Frankenstein' [the TS.], and he seeks to devour me. You alone can save the fiend and make of him a man. Breathe into him a sou= l if not the spirit. Be his Savior in the U.S. and may the blessings of my SUPERIORS and yours descend on you. Yours--the 'old woman,' but one ready to offer you her inner life if you begin and proceed with the work ... But as the ranks thin around us, and one by one our best intellectual forces depart, to turn bitter enemies, I say--Blessed are the pure-hearted who hav= e only intuition, for intuition is better than intellect ..." --HPB LETTERS THAT HAVE HELPED ME, (ULT), p. 281-2 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 -----Original Message----- From: theosophia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:theosophia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steven Levey Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 9:25 AM To: theosophia@yahoogroups.com Subject: [theosophia] Re: In a borrowed body is not the fact: Although Mr.J udge's Story is called "In a Borrowed Body", can the=20 term "Borrowed" be interpreted in a way as to mean Tulku, as you know=20 its meaning? I ask this because, the writings of this man provoke the=20 reader to think that there is a great being within one whom we know as=20 William Quan Judge. Steve --- In theosophia@yahoogroups.com, "arhat_buddhism"=20 wrote: > > within an absorbed body is the fact. Tulku is a Buddhist nun or=20 monk,=20 > incarnating another - and higher - Buddhist monk. > =20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20 From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun Jan 15 04:42:16 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47316 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2006 12:42:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jan 2006 12:42:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.70) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 2006 12:42:15 -0000 Received: from [216.175.82.39] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Ey7Ch-0003qc-QT; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 07:41:52 -0500 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 04:41:35 -0800 Message-ID: <005a01c619d1$0a39d7a0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79544257af5a334c76f8eeb412d2702c49350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE:] In a borrowed body is not the fact: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=AR0yx0_hl214uD1r-pi3ocwfTSVYM2Y5ZEnJs_6dfFlZRA X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/15/2006 4:13 AM Re: In a borrowed body is not the fact: HPB in ISIS UNVEILED wrote 1/15/2006 4:16 AM Re: In a borrowed body is not the fact: Dear Friends: HPB in ISIS UNVEILED wrote: "An adept can not only project and make visible a hand, a foot, or any othe= r portion of his body, but the whole of it. We have seen one do this, in full day, while his hands and feet were being held by a skeptical friend whom he wished to surprise.* Little by little the whole astral body oozed out like = a vapory cloud, until before us stood two forms, of which the second was an exact duplicate of the first, only slightly more shadowy... 1 A singular account of the personal interview of an English ambassador in 1783, with a reincarnated Buddha =97 barely mentioned in volume I [ISIS UNVEILED].=20 =97 an infant of eighteen months old at that time, is given in the Asiatic Journal from the narrative of an eye-witness himself, Mr. Turner, the autho= r of The Embassy to Thibet. The cautious phraseology of a skeptic dreading public ridicule ill conceals the amazement of the witness, who, at the same time, desires to give facts as truthfully as possible.=20 The infant lama received the ambassador and his suite with a dignity and decorum so natural and unconstrained that they remained in a perfect maze o= f wonder. The behavior of this infant, says the author, was that of an old philosopher, grave and sedate and exceedingly courteous. He contrived to make the young pontiff understand the inconsolable grief into which the Governor-General of Galagata (Calcutta) the City of Palaces and the people of India were plunged when he died, and the general rapture when they found that he had resurrected in a young and fresh body again; at which compliment the young lama regarded him and his suite with looks of singular complacency, and courteously treated them to confectionery from a golden cup.=20 "The ambassador continued to express the Governor-General's hope that the lama might long continue to illumine the world with his presence, and that the friendship which had heretofore subsisted between them might be yet mor= e strongly cemented, for the benefit and advantage of the intelligent votarie= s of the lama . . . all which made the little creature look steadfastly at th= e speaker, and graciously bow and nod =97 and bow and nod =97 as if he unders= tood and approved of every word that was uttered." * =20 As if he understood! If the infant behaved in the most natural and dignified way during the reception, and "when their cups were empty of tea became uneasy and throwing back his head and contracting the skin of his brow, continued making a noise till they were filled again," why could he not understand as well what was said to him?=20 2 Years ago, a small party of travellers were painfully journeying from Kashmir to Leh, a city of Ladahk (Central Thibet). Among our guides we had = a Tartar Shaman, a very mysterious personage, who spoke Russian a little and English not at all, and yet who managed, nevertheless, to converse with us, and proved of great service. Having learned that some of our party were Russians, he had imagined that our protection was all-powerful, and might enable him to safely find his way back to his Siberian home, from which, fo= r reasons unknown, some twenty years before, he had fled, as he told us, via Kiachta and the great Gobi Desert, to the land of the Tcha-gars.*=20 With such an interested object in view, we believed ourselves safe under hi= s guard. ...Mr. K=97=97, an ex-Lutheran minister, could not even attempt to l= eave his miserable village near Leh, as from the first days he found himself prostrated with fever, and had to return to Lahore via Kashmere.=20 But one sight seen by him was as good as if he had witnessed the reincarnation of Buddha itself. Having heard of this "miracle" from some ol= d Russian missionary in whom he thought he could have more faith than in Abbe Huc, it had been for years his desire to expose the "great heathen" jugglery, as he expressed it. K=97=97 was a positivist, and rather prided himself on this anti-philosophical neologism. But his positivism was doomed to receive a death-blow.=20 About four days journey from Islamabad, at an insignificant mud village, whose only redeeming feature was its magnificent lake, we stopped for a few days' rest. Our companions had temporarily separated from us, and the village was to be our place of meeting.=20 It was there that we were apprised by our Shaman that a large party of Lamaic "Saints," on pilgrimage to various shrines, had taken up their abode in an old cave-temple and established a temporary Vihara therein. He added that, as the "Three Honorable Ones" =86 were said to travel along with them= , the holy Bikshu (monks) were capable of producing the greatest miracles. Mr= . K=97=97-, fired with the prospect of exposing this humbug of the ages, proc= eeded at once to pay them a visit, and from that moment the most friendly relations were established between the two camps.=20 The Vihar was in a secluded and most romantic spot secured against all intrusion. Despite the effusive attentions, presents, and protestations of Mr. K=97=97, the Chief, who was Pase-Budhu (an ascetic of great sanctity), declined to exhibit the phenomenon of the "incarnation" until a certain talisman in possession of the writer was exhibited.*=20 Upon seeing this, however, preparations were at once made, and an infant of three or four months was procured from its mother, a poor woman of the neighborhood.=20 An oath was first of all exacted of Mr. K=97=97, that he would not divulge = what he might see or hear, for the space of seven years.=20 The talisman is a simple agate or carnelian known among the Thibetans and others as A-yu, and naturally possessed, or had been endowed with very mysterious properties. It has a triangle engraved upon it, within which are contained a few mystical words.=86 .... ---------------------- FOOTNOTE ----------------------------- * A Bikshu is not allowed to accept anything directly even from laymen of his own people, least of all from a foreigner. The slightest contact with the body and even dress of a person not belonging to their special communit= y is carefully avoided. Thus even the offerings brought by us and which comprised pieces of red and yellow pou-lou, a sort of woollen fabric the lamas generally wear, had to pass through strange ceremonies. ... =20 =86 These stones are highly venerated among Lamaists and Buddhists; the thr= one and sceptre of Buddha are ornamented with them, and the Taley Lama wears on= e on the fourth finger of the right hand. They are found in the Altai Mountains, and near the river Yarkuh. Our talisman was a gift from the venerable high-priest, a Heiloung, of a Kalmuck tribe...=20 -------------------------------------------- On the appointed afternoon, the baby being brought to the Vihara, was left in the vestibule or reception-room, as K=97=97 could go no further int= o the temporary sanctuary.=20 The child was then placed on a bit of carpet in the middle of the floor, an= d every one not belonging to the party being sent away, two "mendicants" were placed at the entrance to keep out intruders. Then all the lamas seated themselves on the floor, with their backs against the granite walls, so tha= t each was separated from the child by a space, at least, of ten feet. The chief, having had a square piece of leather spread for him by the desservant, seated himself at the farthest corner.=20 Alone, Mr. K=97=97 placed himself close by the infant, and watched every movement with intense interest. The only condition exacted of us was that w= e should preserve a strict silence, and patiently await further developments. A bright sunlight streamed through the open door.=20 Gradually the "Superior" fell into what seemed a state of profound meditation, while the others, after a sotto voce short invocation, became suddenly silent, and looked as if they had been completely petrified. It wa= s oppressively still, and the crowing of the child was the only sound to be heard. After we had sat there a few moments, the movements of the infant's limbs suddenly ceased, and his body appeared to become rigid. K=97=97 watch= ed intently every motion, and both of us, by a rapid glance, became satisfied that all present were sitting motionless.=20 The superior, with his gaze fixed upon the ground, did not even look at the infant; but, pale and motionless, he seemed rather like a bronze statue of = a Talapoin in meditation than a living being.=20 Suddenly, to our great consternation, we saw the child, not raise itself, but, as it were, violently jerked into a sitting posture! A few more jerks, and then, like an automaton set in motion by concealed wires, the four months' baby stood upon his feet! Fancy our consternation, and, in Mr. K=97= =97's case, horror. Not a hand had been outstretched, not a motion made, nor a word spoken; and yet, here was a baby-in-arms standing erect and firm as a man!=20 The rest of the story we will quote from a copy of notes written on this subject by Mr. K=97=97, the same evening, and given to us, in case it should not reach its place of destination, or the writer fail to see anything more.=20 "After a minute or two of hesitation," writes K=97=97, "the baby turne= d his head and looked at me with an expression of intelligence that was simply awful! It sent a chill through me. I pinched my hands and bit my lips till the blood almost came, to make sure that I did not dream. But this was only the beginning.=20 The miraculous creature, making, as I fancied, two steps toward me, resumed his sitting posture, and, without removing his eyes from mine, repeated, sentence by sentence, in what I supposed to be Thibetan language, the very words, which I had been told in advance, are commonly spoken at the incarnations of Buddha, beginning with 'I am Buddha; I am the old Lama; I a= m his spirit in a new body,' etc.=20 I felt a real terror; my hair rose upon my head, and my blood ran cold. For my life I could not have spoken a word. There was no trickery here, no ventriloquism. The infant lips moved, and the eyes seemed to search my very soul with an expression that made me think it was the face of the Superior himself, his eyes, his very look that I was gazing upon. It was as if his spirit had entered the little body, and was looking at me through the transparent mask of the baby's face. I felt my brain growing dizzy. The infant reached toward me, and laid his little hand upon mine. I started as if I had been touched by a hot coal; and, unable to bear the scene any longer, covered my face with my hands.=20 It was but for an instant; but when I removed them, the little actor had become a crowing baby again, and a moment after, lying upon his back, set u= p a fretful cry. The superior had resumed his normal condition, and conversation ensued.=20 "It was only after a series of similar experiments, extending over ten days, that I realized the fact that I had seen the incredible, astounding phenomenon described by certain travellers, but always by me denounced as a= n imposture. Among a multitude of questions unanswered, despite my cross-examination, the Superior let drop one piece of information, which must be regarded as highly significant. 'What would have happened,' I inquired, through the shaman, 'if, while the infant was speaking, in a moment of insane fright, at the thought of its being the "Devil," I had killed it?' He replied that, if the blow had not been instantly fatal, the child alone would have been killed.' 'But,' I continued, 'suppose that it had been as swift as a lightning-flash?' 'In such case,' was the answer, 'you would have killed me also.' "=20 ISIS UNVEILED II 567 - 602 --------------------------------------------- Best wishes,=20 Dallas =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: arhat_buddhism Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 6:18 AM To Subject: In a borrowed body is not the fact: within an absorbed body is the fact. Tulku is a Buddhist nun or monk,=20 incarnating another - and higher - Buddhist monk. From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Sun Jan 15 09:57:54 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8051 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2006 17:57:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Jan 2006 17:57:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mx02.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.12) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Jan 2006 17:57:52 -0000 Received: from 56347a74.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.122.116] helo=khidr6094418a5) by mx02.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1EyC5F-00063d-27 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:54:31 +0100 Message-ID: <004701c619fd$45518af0$747a3456@khidr6094418a5> To: References: Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:58:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.12 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "M. Sufilight" Subject: Re: Theos-World Theosophical Traditions & New Students of Theosophy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=B1JTKYNEqFnHBJoMP9snga23ajwYIQPIq_wn-W-KBhy7 X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Hallo Daniel and all, My views are: Never-the-less it is a clear fact that the main theosophical scriptures written by Blavatsky and the main Mahatma Letters are all MAINLY targeting a Western audience and not a Middle Eastern Audience. Today - this makes these same scriptures culturally problematic, if not even biased when taken as a whole. When they were written their impact was different, than as of today. Scriptures of the past does not have the same level af Baraka or spiritual impact. The real Teachers of today use present day teachings adapted to time, place, people and circumstances. Now I am not about to write thesis about this. The ernest Seekers will have to find out the Truth about this themselves. There is no Religion Higher than the Truth. And what was it about the word "contrast", which would enable us to see something? Well... Just some views of mine. from M. Sufilight with peace and love... ----- Original Message ----- From: "danielhcaldwell" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 6:28 PM Subject: Theos-World Theosophical Traditions & New Students of Theosophy > Theosophical Traditions & > New Students of Theosophy > [Updated edition] > > See: > > http://blavatskyarchives.com/theosophicaltraditions.htm > > Daniel > http://hpb.cc > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > From leonmaurer@aol.com Sun Jan 15 21:21:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90439 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2006 05:21:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2006 05:21:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m27.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.8) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jan 2006 05:21:08 -0000 Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.296.3def466 (3858); Mon, 16 Jan 2006 00:20:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <296.3def466.30fc872d@aol.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 00:20:45 EST MIME-Version: 1.0 To: undisclosed-recipients:; X-Mailer: Thunderbird - Mac OS X sub 310 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.8 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: leonmaurer@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Re: Science vs. Theosophy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972; y=NaaBUJ4ImUs9oFDjGhriMBJAevkUeKb_sz6UVt6NwUoTsrlmJjY X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Cass, Thanks for your quote and perceptive/provocative question -- enabling me to= =20 clarify these theosophically and scientifically consistent ideas a bit furt= her. As I see it, "awareness" (root of perception) and "will" (empowerment of=20 desire, intent, and subsequent action) are the fundamental functions of the= =20 zero-point of universal origin -- which is the rootless root and source of= =20 empowerment of all fields of consciousness that emanate and fractally invol= ve from its=20 encircling angular momentum or "spinergy." This "G-force," which also=20 includes the Akasha or eternal universal memory, is the root of all coaduna= te but=20 not consubstantial descending fields of consciousness -- the lowest and mos= t=20 dense of which is our physical matter-energy space-time continuum. Since this zero-point is also the foundation and center of all beings and=20 their seven fold natures (analogous to the fractally involved universal fie= lds=20 described in the ABC model) -- these potential functions are all pervasive= =20 within all forms throughout the universe.=20=20=20 On our physical plane, in the lower forms of inert matter, they are simply= =20 dormant potentialities. But in the living or organic beings, they become= =20 expressed first, in the lower forms as "reflexive" responses to their envir= onment,=20 or as "instincts" in the intermediate forms (vegetable kingdom)... Progress= ing=20 later, in the higher forms (animal kingdom) as inbred instincts that includ= es=20 perceptive awareness and reactive will... Until it finally reaches the=20 highest state of self consciousness (perceptive awareness, discernment,=20 discrimination, recollection, recall, imagination, differentiation, integra= tion, decision,=20 free will, etc.) that we experience as human beings.=20=20=20 All of this was initially explained by HPB in Isis Unveiled, as you quoted.= ..=20 And later, more fully expanded in the Secret Doctrine.=20 Warm regards, Lenny=20 In a message dated 1/14/06 1:38:25 AM, silva_cass@yahoo.com writes: > Hello Leon > Read this in Isis Unveiled P425, "Instinct, as a divine spark, lurks in t= he=20 > unconscious nerve-centre of the ascidian mollusk, and manifests itself at= the=20 > first stage of action of its nervous system as what the physiologist term= s=20 > the reflex action.=A0 It exists in the lowest classes of the acephalous a= nimals=20 > as well as in those that have distinct heads; it grows and develops accor= ding=20 > to the law of the double evolution, physically and spiritually; and enter= ing=20 > upon its conscious stage of development and progress in the cephalous=20 > species already endowed with a sensorium and symetrically-arranged gangli= a, this=20 > reflex action, whether men of science term it automatic, as in the lowest= =20 > species, or instinctive, as in the more complex organisms which act under= the=20 > guidance of the sensorium and the stimulus originating in distinct sensat= ion, is=20 > still one and the same thing.=A0 It is the divine instinct in its ceasele= ss=20 > progress of development. >=20 > Is what you term "awareness and will" is this instinct? >=20 > Cass >=20 > Cass >=20 > leonmaurer@aol.com wrote: Dear Christine, >=20 > I thought the basis of the disagreement was fully explained when I said t= hat > the subjective aspects of thought attributed to the brain by scientists, > actually belonged to the zero-point(s) of "absolute" space along with the= =20 > mind that > exist(s) beyond all "metric" space, time, (and brain meat, so to speak. := -) >=20 > My basic premise, in accord with HPB's outline of the Secret Doctrine, is > that the brain cannot "think" -- as physicalist/materialist scientists=20 > presume -- > but can only process the sensory images that come up in our thoughts guid= ed > by the awareness and will of our consciousness, and carried as holographi= c=20 > wave > interference patterns in the mind (thought, reason, intuition, memory, et= c.) > -- that, as "coadunate but not consubstantial" (i.e., multidimensional > "hyperspace") fields, also exist beyond the physical properties of the=20 > brain-body and > its neural system.=A0=A0 >=20 > Thus, the brain is nothing more than a highly complex and malleable > transponding/transforming electrochemical control system between the=20 > physical senses, > the body's muscular system, and the mind (which is directly accessed by i= ts > zero-point center of consciousness, as well in inductive resonance with t= he > sensory image modulations carried by the brain's electromagnetic field).= =A0=A0=20 > Thus > sensory images are transformed and inductively mapped from the brain fiel= d=20 > into > mind-memory field images, and vice versa.=A0=A0 This enables the consciou= sness=20 > to > be in direct control of the positions of the body with relation to the ou= ter > world.=A0=A0 Such conscious control enables a baseball player to single h= andedly > catch a high fly ball on the run, and a skilled fine artist to place her= =20 > brush > exactly on a point of an image on the canvas in exact correspondence with= =20 > that > point of the model she sees, at the moment of a single glance, in her=20 > mind.=A0=A0 > These are amazing feats that only a remote single pointed awareness and w= ill > could achieve, in combination with a mappable mind field and a malleable = and > trainable neural network coupled with its elctromagnetic brain wave field= .=A0=A0 > Incidentally, this malleability of the neural network implies that each=20 > neuron is > also conscious to a limited degree -- as are all the other cells in our=20 > bodies > that respond to their signals. >=20 > In this view, we assume that the other aspects of our human awareness and > thought, such as discernment, discrimination, comprehension, decision,=20 > choice, > self consciousness, etc., are also properties of the zero-points of > consciousness or higher Self that is centered in our Spiritual Atma and=20 > Buddhi-Manas > fields.=A0=A0 (Of course, all this can be influenced by our lower self, w= hose > zero-points of consciousness are centered in our animal-like Astral=20 > Kama-Manas fields.) > =A0 For a symbolic view of how these fields involve and relate to each ot= her, > see diagrams at: > http://users.aol.com/uniwldarts/uniworld.artisans.guild/chakrafield.html, > http://users.aol.com/uniwldarts/uniworld.artisans.guild/manfields.ht > ml#anchor1749200 > http://users.aol.com/leonmaurer/TaiChiFldDiag-figure-2.gif > http://users.aol.com/leonmaurer/Chakrafielddiag-fig.col.jpg >=20 > Hope this clarifies these ideas a bit further. >=20 > Best regards, >=20 > Lenny >=20 > In a message dated 1/11/06 1:12:24 PM, cmmullee@hotmail.com writes: >=20 >=20 > > January 10, 2006 > > > > Dear Leon: > > > > In reply to your e-mail of January 9, 2006, concerning a counter argume= nt > > refuting a scientist claiming the "brain thinks," the question arises > > whether this opinion would be better served if further explanation was= =20 > given > > explaining the basis for the disagreement.=EF=BF=C5=A8 In other words, = is your=20 > opinion > > based on an idea that the brain thinks independently of the rest of the > > anatomy?=EF=BF=C5=A8 In what context are you basing your opinion? > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Christine > > > > > > >From: LeonMaurer@aol.com > > >Reply-To: study@blavatsky.net > > >To: study@blavatsky.net > > >Subject: [bn-study] Re: Science vs. Theosophy > > >Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 18:59:33 EST > > > > > >Just an added observation I once posted on the Journal of Consciousnes= s=20 > Study > > >online forum -- in a similar mode of counter argument refuting a=20 > scientist > > >claiming the "brain thinks. My argument was never logically,=20 > scientifically or > > >even philosophically refuted. (Although one reputed quantum physicis= t=20 > said > > >I was "barking up a tree. The Quantum-Mind forum, on the other hand, > > >simply refused to post it. :-) > > >----------------- > > > > > >"Contrary to the unfounded, hence, "religious" belief of most reductiv= e > > >scientists of a materialist bent; The Brain does NOT "think," "feel,"= =20 > "smell," > > >"taste," "hear," "recall," "remember," or "imagine"... Since, those ar= e=20 > the > > >functions of the zero-points of consciousness (awareness-will) that li= nks > > >directly to the mind and memory -- which exists as separate fields of > > >energies enfolded within the apparently empty space between the > > >hyperspace "particles," and outside of all metric time and space -- ye= t > > >interconnected inductively with the electromagnetic fields of the brai= n > > > and all other cellular structures of the body through their individua= l > > >hyperspace fields. This interconnection allows us to place our bodies > > >at any desired location within the outer world field -- enabling a > > >baseball to be caught on the fly, and an artist to place the point > > >of the brush on the exact point on the canvas corresponding to the > > >model and the painting pictured in the mind. > > > > > >All such fields are funda-mentally electrical in nature, and obey all = its > > >laws of harmony, cycles, symmetry and conservation of both matter and > > >energy -- although their vectorial constants are different in value > > >depending on their mfrequency energy phase order. > > > > > >It's these fields that carry all the information or contents of=20 > consciousness > > >-- as encoded holographic interference patterns (modulated as waves on= =20 > > >the surfaces or "membranes" of the fields) -- that are capable of bein= g > > >transformedfrom one hyperspace field level to another by inductive > > >resonance, e.g., strike a "string" or "note" in one field, and the=20 > vibration > > >resonates at the same equivalent pitch or note in adjacent higher orde= red > > >frequency-energy spectrum phase fields, as they cascade down to the ze= ro- > > >point of their origination. Thus, no experiential information, in the= =20 > form of=20 > > >wave vibrational patterns of energy, can ever be lost. > > > > > >The images of consciousness on the surface of the highest=20 > frequency-energy > > >phase order field is capable of being reconstructed and detected=20 > reflectively, > > >by a single coherent ray of corresponding frequency energy projected f= rom > > >any non local zero-point of consciousness. The brain is simply a=20 > transducer, > > >transponder, and controller functioning as the linkage between the=20 > various > > >channels of sensory input and the ubiquitous zero-points of consciousn= ess > > >throughout the overall field of the human organism." > > > > > >Best wishes, > > > > > >Lenny > > > >=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Jan 16 05:36:38 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70815 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2006 13:36:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2006 13:36:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.70) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jan 2006 13:36:34 -0000 Received: from [216.175.69.13] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EyUWm-00026u-KQ; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 08:36:09 -0500 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 05:35:52 -0800 Message-ID: <002001c61aa1$ca12e2d0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7934ef3bb3071c50989270559690114825350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: HOW KARMA WORKS X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=jSTB6aqMi6Ls_jy51TxiNciq51b9zIyNe-nhKB2zrnF7GA X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/16/2006 5:26 AM Dear Friends: What you say brings in these points of Theosophical doctrine to be considered: HOW KARMA WORKS=20 1 Immortality of each and every one of the MONADS.=20=20 2 Duality of Manas [Buddhi-Manas and Kama-Manas] when the "human" stage is reached in the individual evolution of every Monad. 3 Sacrifice of Higher Self (ATMA-BUDDHI) for the sake of the Monads (S D I 207-208 -- "GREAT SACRIFICE" as an example of this) 4 Personal Karma is only incurred by the embodied Mind -- Lower Manas -- it is due to tamasic inertia, isolation and selfishness. It rejects the brotherhood of all other immortal monads. 5 Karmic reactions (effects and present circumstances) are expressed in terms of emotion and the psychic nature as educational and corrective of that principle. This is because the fault and misapprehension occurs solel= y in the area of the kamic and psychic nature of an evolving individual. 6 They (such reactions from Nature) stimulate Lower Mans to view them impersonally (unselfishly) and then devise self-discipline to avoid repeating errors.=20=20 7 This encourages a thorough study of Laws of the Universe in all departments. This, when successful, becomes our own personal WISDOM and add= s to the power of Buddhi-Manas as a universal principle in Nature. 8 It always encourages impersonality, universality and brotherhood as the only basis for harmonizing our choices - and further, it emphasizes our expecting no "personal return" for wise, just, and "honest" acts, thoughts and feelings.=20 In every religion we find an equivalent to "Look inward, thou art Christ," or whomever is offered as a "saviour" so-called, within our ability to express this concept of a Great and Perfect Being.=20 Also in "Voice": "Look inward, thou art Buddha."=20=20 And we find in the BHAGAVAD GITA Krishna says: "I am the Ego seated in the hearts of all beings."=20 As I understand it, the Buddha or Christ within each of us is the HIGHER SELF or Atma-Buddhi -- a "ray" or "spark" of the UNIVERSAL ONE SPIRIT. BUDDHI, technically is the totally pure counterpart [IN Matter] of SPIRIT (see GITA NOTES, Pp. 132-3). It is within each of us. Our selfish personality obscures and hides it. Our selfish inclinations give us trouble. Why ? KARMA, as a generally used word, is "Action -- and a balanced re-action." It is universal and impersonal. It our Universe it works through the monads that fill the whole of SPACE. [ S D I 289 middle of page ] When a human, using his free-mind to formulate a motive and make a choice, and further, does this in isolation for his own limited and selfish benefit= , (this is in the nature of a vicious motive, however slight) one opens the door to "bad Karma." Only impersonal and wholly just and harmonious acts (without expecting any personal benefit), emotions and thoughts (this is th= e deliberate practice of virtue and is done in full control of the inclinations of the lower-Mind or Kama-Manas) attract no adverse Karma. Our past Karma embodied in the skandhas (monads we distorted in the past by evil actions) returns to us under Law. It is an INCLINATION and no= t a "compelling or overwhelming FORCE." It (the inclination) urges us to continue to be selfish or to do evil to another. It cannot compel us to do anything unless we fall under its influence again= , and repeat the errors of the past. If we do that, we reinforce the tendency. Even then, at the moment of choice, the Voice of Conscience (Buddhi) warns before we adopt any course of evil action. As I see it, there are two points of view here 1 the personal -- to whom the situation and the choice are VERY REAL, (not Mayavic at all) - it is for the present life's personal benefit, and,= =20 2 the IDEAL -- i.e., the spiritual -- to whom, because of its remoteness from any evil limitations, KNOWS it is (regardless of how long i= t takes to resolve the problem) only a temporary life-time, and hence applies the word / idea MAYA and MAYAVIC to it.=20 We are aware of these two view-points because our mind sees them both. = =20 The lower mind tries to beguile us into thinking we can do evil and escape its consequences. Religious systems are built of such concepts, untruths an= d misapprehensions. A "God" that can be unjust to the victims of evil is the ticket. And priests of all religions choose to perpetuate this evil concept. They make a livelihood off it: they practice and teach: Keep the people ignorant, fearful and dependent!=20 As I see it, those who have adopted the Buddhistic metaphysical doctrine of MAYA (which spiritually is quite true) have not thought it through from both these view points. Had they done so, the question of repetitive EVIL acts would have been settled dong ago. I believe that we are situated here so as to learn how to deal with such a duality and paradoxical situation. Otherwise, in the economy of Nature, we would not be faced with it.=20 Simply put : it is utter foolishness to do any evil thing if we are inevitably going to suffer from it under KARMA. But Kama as a principle cannot think an has no ability of framing a potential fore-view of its future. Hence, in its attempt to survive, it is continually trying to patc= h up errors and provide defenses to support and prolong its continued existence=20 Contrary-wise, doing "good" is encouraged, and superior to that acting from the basis of SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE covers everything. The Lower Self has to study and learn this and then practise it.=20 At some point, in the sensitive consciousness of the Lower Self (Kama-Manas= ) the "blinders" go on. And the lower self (as Kama "runs away" with Lower Manas) thinks it can get away with some dastardly deed -- (vice arises). Bluntly, the doctrine of the universal presence of the monads (ATMA-BUDDHI) restores sanity. It does this because of the innate spirituality of all beings. And those who are influenced to be vicious cannot escape this basic fact. Spirit and Matter are inextricably mixed down to the least or the greatest of areas, and for all time. No individual or personal thought, feeling or act escapes the power of=20 imprinting every MONAD that our motive affects. Then, every such Monad telegraphs the fact to every other -- and the whole of Nature becomes a witness, and the specialized principle of the Akasa is forever imprinted with the record. The Monads, in the area of our imprinting action, become tortured and distorted if our motive was evil, and the reverse, if it was good. As their nature is such that they seek for growth in intelligence and justice under the universal Light of Truth and Spirit, they automatically all work together to try and readjust the perpetrator of their torture. Thus we find our lives full of circumstances that are opportunities to learn, change and improve. So, if we, as independent "thinking Monads" turn against them, they fasten even more securely to us until we release them by changing our own characte= r (Lower Manas) back to the spiritual way of honorable and impartial living, thinking and behaviour. Of course the Lower Self (Lower Manas) does not "like" this. But at this point, ought we to give any weight to its "likes?= " To be a Buddha, to me, is to strain every moment to keep the great "wheel" of life in the Universe turning true and according to plan -- and to give every Monad a chance to acquire it mental independence and the powe= r to act as an intelligent cooperator with the Universe and our world and eac= h other.=20=20 That is BROTHERHOOD.=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 2 APHORISMS ON KARMA (1) There is no Karma unless there is a being to make it or feel its effects. (2) Karma is the adjustment of effects flowing from causes, during which th= e being upon whom and through whom that adjustment is effected experiences pain or pleasure. (3) Karma is an undeviating and unerring tendency in the Universe to restor= e equilibrium, and it operates incessantly. (4) The apparent stoppage of this restoration to equilibrium is due to the necessary adjustment of disturbance at some other spot, place, or focus which is visible only to the Yogi, to the Sage, or the perfect Seer: there is therefore no stoppage, but only a hiding from view. (5) Karma operates on all things and beings from the minutest conceivable atom to Brahma. Proceeding in the three worlds men, gods, and the elemental beings, no spot in the manifested universe is exempt from its sway. (6) Karma is not subject to time, and therefore he who knows what is the ultimate division of time in this Universe knows Karma. (7) For all other men Karma is in its essential nature unknown and unknowable. (8) But its action may be known by calculation from cause to effect; and this calculation is possible because the effect is wrapped up in and is not succedent to the cause. (9) The Karma of this earth is the combination of the acts and thoughts of all beings of every grade which were concerned in the preceding Manvantara or evolutionary stream from which ours flows. (10) And as those beings include Lords of Power and Holy Men, as well as weak and wicked ones, the period of the earth's duration is greater than that of any entity or race upon it. (11) Because the Karma of this earth and its races began in a past too far back for human minds to reach, an inquiry into its beginning is useless and profitless. (12) Karmic causes already set in motion must be allowed to sweep on until exhausted, but this permits no man to refuse to help his fellows and every sentient being. (13) The effects may be counteracted or mitigated by the thoughts and acts of oneself or of another, and then the resulting effects represent the combination and interaction of the whole number of causes involved in producing the effects. (14) In the life of worlds, races, nations, and individuals, Karma cannot act unless there is an appropriate instrument provided for its action. (15) And until such appropriate instrument is found, that Karma related to it remains unexpended. (16) While a man is experiencing Karma in the instrument provided, his othe= r unexpended Karma is not exhausted through other beings or means, but is hel= d reserved for future operation; and lapse of time during which no operation of that Karma is felt causes no deterioration in its force or change in its nature. (17) The appropriateness of an instrument for the operation of Karma consists in the exact connection and relation of the Karma with the body, mind, intellectual and psychical nature acquired for use by the Ego in any life. (18) Every instrument used by any Ego in any life is appropriate to the Karma operating through it. (19) Changes may occur in the instrument during one life so as to make it appropriate for a new class of Karma, and this may take place in two ways: (a) through intensity of thought and the power of a vow, and (b) through natural alterations due to complete exhaustion of old causes. (20) As body and mind and soul have each a power of independent action, any one of these may exhaust, independently of the others, some Karmic causes more remote from or nearer to the time of their inception than those operating through other channels. (21) Karma is both merciful and just. Mercy and Justice are only opposite poles of a single whole; and Mercy without Justice is not possible in the operations of Karma. That which man calls Mercy and Justice is defective, errant, and impure. (22) Karma may be of three sorts: (a) presently operative in this life through the appropriate instruments; (b) that which is being made or stored up to be exhausted in the future; Karma held over from past life or lives and not operating yet because inhibited by inappropriateness of the instrument in use by the Ego, or by the force of Karma now operating. (23) Three fields of operation are used in each being by Karma: (a) the bod= y and the circumstances; (b) the mind and intellect; the psychic and astral planes. (24) Held-over Karma or present Karma may each, or both at once, operate in all of the three fields of Karmic operation at once, or in either of those fields a different class of Karma from that using the others may operate at the same time. (25) Birth into any sort of body and to obtain the fruits of any sort of Karma is due to the preponderance of the line of Karmic tendency. (26) The sway of Karmic tendency will influence the incarnation of an Ego, or any family of Egos, for three lives at least, when measures of repression, elimination, or counteraction are not adopted. (27) Measures taken by an Ego to repress tendency, eliminate defects, and t= o counteract by setting up different causes, will alter the sway of Karmic tendency and shorten its influence in accordance with the strength or weakness of the efforts expended in carrying out the measures adopted. (28) No man but a sage or true seer can judge another's Karma. Hence while each receives his deserts, appearances may deceive, and birth into Poverty or heavy trial may not be punishment for bad Karma, for Egos continually incarnate into poor surroundings where they experience difficulties and trials which are for the discipline of the Ego and result in strength, fortitude, and sympathy. (29) Race-Karma influences each unit in the race through the law of Distribution. National Karma operates on the members of the nation by the same law more concentrated. Family Karma governs only with a nation where families have been kept pure and distinct; for in any nation where there is a mixture of family - as obtains in each Kaliyuga period - family Karma is in general distributed over a nation. But even at such periods some familie= s remain coherent for long periods, and then the members feel the sway of family Karma. The word "family" may include several smaller families. (30) Karma operates to produce cataclysms of nature by concatenation throug= h the mental and astral planes of being. A cataclysm may be traced to an immediate physical cause such as internal fire and atmospheric disturbance, but these have been brought on by the disturbance created through the dynamic power of human thought. (31) Egos who have no Karmic connection with a portion of the globe where a cataclysm is coming on are kept without the latter's operation in two ways: (a) by repulsion acting on their inner nature, and (b) by being called and warned by those who watch the progress of the world. Path, March, 1893 =A0 -- W Q Judge =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D JUSTICE and LAW =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D "Every Western Theosophist should learn and remember, especially those of=20 them who would be our followers - that in our Brotherhood all personalities= =20 sink into one idea - abstract right and absolute practical justice for=20 all. And that, though we may not say with the Christian, "return good for= =20 evil" - we repeat with Confucius, "return good for good; for evil -=20 JUSTICE." ... A dutiful regard for these rules in life will always promote= =20 the best interests of all concerned."=20=20=20=20=20 Mahatma Letters, p. 401, Let # 85 [ No 120 ], January 1884=20 "Abolish the Courts themselves, for if you would follow the Commandments of= =20 Christ, you have to give away your coat to him who deprives you of your=20 cloak, and turn your left cheek to the bully who smites you on the right." Key on p. 55. =94Enq: But if by so doing, he risks to injure, or allow others to be injur= ed? What ought he to do then? Theo: His duty; that which his conscience and higher nature suggests to=20 him; but only after mature deliberation. Justice consists in doing no=20 injury to any living being; but justice commands us also never to allow=20 injury to be done to the many, or even to one innocent person, by allowing= =20 the guilty one to go unchecked.=94 Key, p. 251 =09 =93Shall we be answered to this, in Congreve's words: --=20 "But who shall dare to tax Eternal Justice?"=20 Logic and simple common sense, we answer: if we are made to believe in the "original Sin," in one life, on this Earth only, for every Soul, and in an anthropomorphic Deity, who seems to have created some men only for the pleasure of condemning them to eternal hell-fire (and this whether they are good or bad, says the Predestinarian), why should not every man endowed wit= h reasoning powers condemn in his turn such a villainous Deity? Life would become unbearable, if one had to believe in the God created by man's unclea= n fancy. Luckily he exists only in human dogmas, and in the unhealthy imagination of some poets, =85 Truly a robust "faith" is required to believe that it is "presumption" to question the justice of one, who creates helpless little man but to "perplex" him, and to test a "faith" with which that "Power," moreover, may have forgotten, if not neglected, to endow him, as happens sometimes.=20 Compare this blind faith with the philosophical belief, based on every reasonable evidence and life-experience, in Karma-Nemesis, or the Law of Retribution.=20 This Law -- whether Conscious or Unconscious -- predestines nothing and no one. It exists from and in Eternity, truly, for it is ETERNITY itself; and as such, since no act can be co-equal with eternity, it cannot be said to act, for it is ACTION itself. It is not the Wave which drowns a man, but th= e personal action of the wretch, who goes deliberately and places himself under the impersonal action of the laws that govern the Ocean's motion.=20 Karma creates nothing, nor does it design. It is man who plans and creates causes, and Karmic law adjusts the effects; which adjustment is not an act, but universal harmony, tending ever to resume its original position, like a bough, which, bent down too forcibly, rebounds with corresponding vigour. I= f it happen to dislocate the arm that tried to bend it out of its natural position, shall we say that it is the bough which broke our arm, or that ou= r own folly has brought us to grief?=20 Karma has never sought to destroy intellectual and individual liberty, like the God invented by the Monotheists. It has not involved its decrees in darkness purposely to perplex man; nor shall it punish him who dares to scrutinize its mysteries. On the contrary, he who unveils through study and meditation its intricate paths, and throws light on those dark ways, in the windings of which so many men perish owing to their ignorance of the labyrinth of life, is working for the good of his fellow-men. KARMA is an Absolute and Eternal law in the World of manifestation; and as there can only be one Absolute, as One eternal ever present Cause, believers in Karma cannot be regarded as Atheists or materialists -- still less as fatalists:" for Karma is one with the Unknowable, of which it is an aspect in its effects in the phenomenal world.=20 Intimately, or rather indissolubly, connected with Karma, then, is the law of re-birth, or of the re-incarnation of the same spiritual individuality i= n a long, almost interminable, series of personalities. The latter are like the various costumes and characters played by the same actor, with each of which that actor identifies himself and is identified by the public, for th= e space of a few hours.=20 The inner, or real man, who personates those characters, knows the whole time that he is Hamlet for the brief space of a few acts, which represent, however, on the plane of human illusion the whole life of Hamlet. And he knows that he was, the night before, King Lear, the transformation in his turn of the Othello of a still earlier preceding night; but the outer, visible character is supposed to be ignorant of the fact. [ see Key, p. 34] In actual life that ignorance is, unfortunately, but too real. Nevertheless= , the permanent individuality is fully aware of the fact, though, through the atrophy of the "spiritual" eye in the physical body, that knowledge is unable to impress itself on the consciousness of the false personality. =93 S D II 304 - 6 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D HOW SHOULD WE TREAT OTHERS The subject relates to our conduct toward and treatment of our fellows, including in that term all people with whom we have any dealings. No particular mode of treatment is given by Theosophy.=20 It simply lays down the law that governs us in all our acts, and declares the consequences of those acts. It is for us to follow the line of action which shall result first in harmony now and forever, and second, in the reduction of the general sum of hate and opposition in thought or act which now darkens the world. The great law which Theosophy first speaks of is the law of karma, and this is the one which must be held in view in considering the question. Karma is called by some the "law of ethical causation," but it is also the law of action and reaction; and in all departments of nature the reaction is equal to the action, and sometimes the reaction from the unseen but permanent world seems to be much greater than the physical act or word would appear t= o warrant on the physical plane. This is because the hidden force on the unseen plane was just as strong and powerful as the reaction is seen by us to be. The ordinary view takes in bu= t half of the facts in any such case and judges wholly by superficial observation. If we look at the subject only from the point of view of the person who knows not of Theosophy and of the nature of man, nor of the forces Theosoph= y knows to be operating all the time, then the reply to the question will be just the same as the everyday man makes.=20 That is, that he has certain rights he must and will and ought to protect; that he has property he will and may keep and use any way he pleases; and i= f a man injure him he ought to and will resent it; that if he is insulted by word or deed he will at once fly not only to administer punishment on the offender, but also try to reform, to admonish, and very often to give that offender up to the arm of the law; that if he knows of a criminal he will denounce him to the police and see that he has meted out to him the punishment provided by the law of man. Thus in everything he will proceed a= s is the custom and as is thought to be the right way by those who live under the Mosaic retaliatory law. But if we are to inquire into the subject as Theosophists, and as Theosophists who know certain laws and who insist on the absolute sway of karma, and as people who know what the real constitution of man is, then th= e whole matter takes on, or ought to take on, a wholly different aspect. The untheosophical view is based on separation, the Theosophical upon unity absolute and actual. Of course if Theosophists talk of unity but as a dream or a mere metaphysical thing, then they will cease to be Theosophists, and be mere professors, as the Christian world is today, of a code not followed= . If we are separate one from the other the world is right and resistance is = a duty, and the failure to condemn those who offend is a distinct breach of propriety, of law, and of duty. But if we are all united as a physical and psychical fact, then the act of condemning, the fact of resistance, the insistence upon rights on all occasions - all of which means the entire lac= k of charity and mercy - will bring consequences as certain as the rising of the sun tomorrow. What are those consequences, and why are they? They are simply this, that the real man, the entity, the thinker, will reac= t back on you just exactly in proportion to the way you act to him, and this reaction will be in another life, if not now, and even if now felt will still return in the next life. The fact that the person whom you condemn, or oppose, or judge seems now in this life to deserve it for his acts in this life, does not alter the other fact that his nature will react against you when the time comes. The reaction is a law not subject to nor altered by any sentiment on your part. He may have, truly, offended you and even hurt you, and done that which in the eye of man is blameworthy, but all this does not have anything to do with the dynamic fact that if you arouse his enmity by your condemnation or judgment there will be a reaction on you, and consequently on the whole of society in any century when the reaction takes place.=20 This is the law and the fact as given by the Adepts, as told by all sages, as reported by those who have seen the inner side of nature, as taught by our philosophy and easily provable by anyone who will take the trouble to examine carefully.=20 Logic and small facts of one day or one life, or arguments on lines laid down by men of the world who do not know the real power and place of though= t nor the real nature of man cannot sweep this away. After all argument and logic it will remain. The logic used against it is always lacking in certai= n premises based on facts, and while seeming to be good logic, because the missing facts are unknown to the logician, it is false logic. Hence an appeal to logic that ignores facts which we know are certain is of no use i= n this inquiry. And the ordinary argument always uses a number of assumptions which are destroyed by the actual inner facts about thought, about karma, about the reaction by the inner man. The Master "K.H.," once writing to Mr. Sinnett in the Occult World, and speaking for his whole order and not for himself only, distinctly wrote tha= t the man who goes to denounce a criminal or an offender works not with natur= e and harmony but against both, and that such act tends to destruction instea= d of construction.=20 Whether the act be large or small, whether it be the denunciation of a criminal, or only your own insistence on rules or laws or rights, does not alter the matter or take it out of the rule laid down by that Adept. For th= e only difference between the acts mentioned is a difference of degree alone; the act is the same in kind as the violent denunciation of a criminal.=20 Either this Adept was right or wrong. If wrong, why do we follow the philosophy laid down by him and his messenger, and concurred in by all the sages and teachers of the past? If right, why this swimming in an adverse current, as he said himself, why this attempt to show that we can set aside karma and act as we please without consequences following us to the end of time? I know not. I prefer to follow the Adept, and especially so when I se= e that what he says is in line with facts in nature and is a certain conclusion from the system of philosophy I have found in Theosophy. I have never found an insistence on my so-called rights at all necessary. They preserve themselves, and it must be true if the law of karma is the truth that no man offends against me unless I in the past have offended against him. In respect to man, karma has no existence without two or more persons being considered. You act, another person is affected, karma follows. It follows on the thought of each and not on the act, for the other person is moved to thought by your act. Here are two sorts of karma, yours and his, and both are intermixed. There is the karma or effect on you of your own thought and act, the result on you of the other person's thought; and there is the karma on or with the other person consisting of the direct result of your act and his thoughts engendered by your act and thought. This is all permanent.=20 As affecting you there may be various effects. If you have condemned, for instance, we may mention some:=20 (a) the increased tendency in yourself to indulge in condemnation, which will remain and increase from life to life;=20 (b) this will at last in you change into violence and all that anger and condemnation may naturally lead to;=20 (c) an opposition to you is set up in the other person, which will remain forever until one day both suffer for it, and this may be in a tendency in the other person in any subsequent life to do you harm and hurt you in the million ways possible in life, and often also unconsciously.=20 Thus it may all widen out and affect the whole body of society. Hence no matter how justifiable it may seem to you to condemn or denounce or punish another, you set up cause for sorrow in the whole race that must work out some day. And you must feel it. The opposite conduct, that is, entire charity, constant forgiveness, wipes out the opposition from others, expends the old enmity and at the same time makes no new similar causes. Any other sort of thought or conduct is sure t= o increase the sum of hate in the world, to make cause for sorrow, to continually keep up the crime and misery in the world. Each man can for himself decide which of the two ways is the right one to adopt. Self-love and what people call self-respect may shrink from following the Adept's view I give above, but the Theosophist who wishes to follow the law and reduce the general sum of hate will know how to act and to think, for h= e will follow the words of the Master of H.P.B. who said: "Do not be ever thinking of yourself and forgetting that there are others; for you have no karma of your own, but the karma of each one is the karma of all."=20 And these words were sent by H.P.B. to the American Section and called by her words of wisdom, as they seem also to me to be, for they accord with law. They hurt the personality of the nineteenth century, but the personality is for a day, and soon it will be changed if Theosophists try t= o follow the law of charity as enforced by the inexorable law of karma.=20 We should all constantly remember that if we believe in the Masters we should at least try to imitate them in the charity they show for our weakness and faults. In no other way can we hope to reach their high estate= , for by beginning thus we set up a tendency which will one day perhaps bring us near to their development; by not beginning we put off the day forever. William Brehon, F.T.S. PATH, February, 1896 W Q J Articles, Vol. II, p. 357 =20 From leonmaurer@aol.com Mon Jan 16 20:40:19 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64293 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2006 04:40:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2006 04:40:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2006 04:40:17 -0000 Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.2bc.36defb4 (18555); Mon, 16 Jan 2006 23:36:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2bc.36defb4.30fdce65@aol.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 23:36:53 EST MIME-Version: 1.0 To: undisclosed-recipients:; X-Mailer: Thunderbird - Mac OS X sub 310 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.144.208 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: leonmaurer@aol.com Subject: Cool List of Facts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972; y=1oBhr7BWl4i26zevIXjnmkJoEuxoxPYVb0DltPbQXrry9wC0i3c X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ... To lighten things up a bit around here. Interesting ... And fun to boot ... =A0 > Here are some Interesting language origins and factoids: > =A0 > 1. In the 1400's a law was set forth that a man was not allowed > to beat his wife with a stick no thicker than his thumb. Hence we have > "the rule of thumb". >=20 > 2. Many years ago in Scotland, a new game was invented. It was > ruled "Gentlemen Only...Ladies Forbidden"...and thus the word GOLF > entered into the English language. >=20 > 3. The first couple to be shown in bed together on prime time TV > were Fred and Wilma Flintstone. >=20 > 4. Every day more money is printed for Monopoly than the US > Treasury. >=20 > 5. Men can read smaller print than women; women can hear better. >=20 > 6. Coca-Cola was originally green. >=20 > 7. It is impossible to lick your elbow. >=20 > 8. The average number of people airborne over the US any given > hour: 61,000. >=20 > 9. Intelligent people have more zinc and copper in their hair. >=20 > 10. The first novel ever written on a typewriter: Tom Sawyer. >=20 > 11. Each king in a deck of playing cards represents a great king > from history: > =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Spades - King David > =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Hearts - Charlemagne > =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Clubs -Alexander, the Great > =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Diamonds - Julius Caesar >=20 > 12. 111,111,111 x 111,111,111 =3D 12,345,678,987,654,321 >=20 > 13. If a statue in the park of a person on a horse has both > front legs in the air, the person died in battle. If the horse has one > front leg in the air the person died as a result of wounds received in > battle. If the horse has all four legs on the ground, the person died of > natural causes. >=20 > 14. If you were to spell out numbers, how far would you have to > go until you would find the letter "A"?......One thousand. >=20 > 15. What do bulletproof vests, fire escapes, windshield wipers, > and laser printers all have in common?......All invented by women. >=20 > 16. What is the only food that doesn't spoil?......Honey > =A0 > 17. In Shakespeare's time, mattresses were secured on bed frames > by ropes. When you pulled on the ropes the mattress tightened, making > the bed firmer to sleep on. Hence the phrase........."goodnight, sleep > tight." >=20 > 18. It was the accepted practice in Babylon 4,000 years ago that > for a month after the wedding, the bride's father would supply his > son-in-law with all the mead he could drink. Mead is a honey beer and > because their calendar was lunar based, this period was called the honey > month, which we know today as the honeymoon. >=20 > 19. In English pubs, ale is ordered by pints and quarts. So in > old England, when customers got unruly, the bartender would yell at > them "Mind your pints and quarts, and settle down."=20 > It's where we get the phrase "mind your P's and Q's." >=20 > 20. Many years ago in England, pub frequenters had a whistle > baked into the rim, or handle, of their ceramic cups. When they needed a > refill, they used the whistle to get some service. "Wet your whistle" is > the phrase inspired by this practice. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Don't delete the following just because it looks weird. Believe it or not= ,=20 > you can read it. >=20 > "I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdgnieg. T= he=20 > phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid aoccdrnig to rscheearch at Cmabrigde=20 > Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in > a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be= in=20 > the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it=20 > wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lte= ter by=20 > istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh?" >=20 > ~~~~~~~~~~~AND FINALLY~~~~~~~~~~~~ > At least 75% of people who read this will try to lick their > elbow... > We don't stop playing because we grow old; > we grow old because we stop playing. > George Bernard Shaw >=20 >=20 >=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From bartl@sprynet.com Mon Jan 16 21:45:40 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73945 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2006 05:45:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2006 05:45:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.68) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2006 05:45:38 -0000 Received: from [151.198.115.250] (helo=sprynet.com) by smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Eyje1-0002nl-Ow for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 00:44:38 -0500 Message-ID: <43CC8448.7090005@sprynet.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 00:44:40 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: <2bc.36defb4.30fdce65@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <2bc.36defb4.30fdce65@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: 5be619ec394aa49c25eb773df4b61cba035909f191d35231a689638c2e592001ac30c6e5e32ee181350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.68 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Theos-World Cool List of Facts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=690370; y=wLLD-PDVvM_cUYADXnBihmpi3UwSSO05N8oNugZmWr2gARA X-Yahoo-Profile: bml07646 leonmaurer@aol.com wrote: >>Here are some Interesting language origins and factoids: >> >>1. In the 1400's a law was set forth that a man was not allowed >>to beat his wife with a stick no thicker than his thumb. Hence we have >>"the rule of thumb". Bullshit. It's a myth that was created so that feminists can hit men over the head with sticks as revenge. The term "rule of thumb" comes from using one's thumb as a measuring device. >>2. Many years ago in Scotland, a new game was invented. It was >>ruled "Gentlemen Only...Ladies Forbidden"...and thus the word GOLF >>entered into the English language. Except that the name of the game was originally GOWF, which stood for nothing. More methods of creating a false history of victimization. >>3. The first couple to be shown in bed together on prime time TV >>were Fred and Wilma Flintstone. According to Snopes, Mary Kay and Johnny, a 1947 sitcom, was the first. Ozzie and Harriet and even Lucy and Ricky were depicted as sleeping in the same bed in individual episodes. >>4. Every day more money is printed for Monopoly than the US >>Treasury. That may be true, if you take the value of the money. But, by that token, I can print a single bill, that says, "One Trillion Dollars", and say that I print more money than the U.S. Treasury (which prints about $70 billion a year). On the other hand, if you count number of bills, then even high estimates of Monopoly's annual sales makes them print only about a third as many bills as the U.S. Treasury. >>5. Men can read smaller print than women; women can hear better. Probably. >>6. Coca-Cola was originally green. Nope. The original formula had caramel coloring. It was, however, originally bottled in green glass bottles. >>7. It is impossible to lick your elbow. Pretty much. I'd have to ask Gene Simmons. I've heard that some people can, but it's very rare. >>9. Intelligent people have more zinc and copper in their hair. Blond joke. >>10. The first novel ever written on a typewriter: Tom Sawyer. Probably should be qualified by the word, "famous". >>11. Each king in a deck of playing cards represents a great king >>from history: >> Spades - King David >> Hearts - Charlemagne >> Clubs -Alexander, the Great >> Diamonds - Julius Caesar Seeing that Kings in decks predate European card decks, that is not at all likely. >>13. If a statue in the park of a person on a horse has both >>front legs in the air, the person died in battle. If the horse has one >>front leg in the air the person died as a result of wounds received in >>battle. If the horse has all four legs on the ground, the person died of >>natural causes. Myth. >>14. If you were to spell out numbers, how far would you have to >>go until you would find the letter "A"?......One thousand. one hundred And one. >>15. What do bulletproof vests, fire escapes, windshield wipers, >>and laser printers all have in common?......All invented by women. Gary Stackweather, inventor of the laser printer, would be VERY surprised to hear that, as would Rev. Casimir Zeglen, inventor of the bulletproof vest, and Daniel Maseres, inventor of the fire escape. However, Mary Anderson did receive the first patent for windshield wipers. >>16. What is the only food that doesn't spoil?......Honey And fruitcake. And refined sugar. >>17. In Shakespeare's time, mattresses were secured on bed frames >>by ropes. When you pulled on the ropes the mattress tightened, making >>the bed firmer to sleep on. Hence the phrase........."goodnight, sleep >>tight." According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the word, "tight" can be used to mean "soundly", hence, "sleep soundly". The above is an old tourists guides' story. >>18. It was the accepted practice in Babylon 4,000 years ago that >>for a month after the wedding, the bride's father would supply his >>son-in-law with all the mead he could drink. Mead is a honey beer and >>because their calendar was lunar based, this period was called the honey >>month, which we know today as the honeymoon. Except that, according to the Oxford English Dictionary, the term only dates back to the 16th Century. >>19. In English pubs, ale is ordered by pints and quarts. So in >>old England, when customers got unruly, the bartender would yell at >>them "Mind your pints and quarts, and settle down." >>It's where we get the phrase "mind your P's and Q's." The etymology is unknown, but a more likely source is moveable type, where lower case "p's" and "q's" are easily mixed up because of the reversals. >>20. Many years ago in England, pub frequenters had a whistle >>baked into the rim, or handle, of their ceramic cups. When they needed a >>refill, they used the whistle to get some service. "Wet your whistle" is >>the phrase inspired by this practice. I'd like to see a picture of one; otherwise, I'll accept the version that you can't whistle when your mouth is dry. Bart From silva_cass@yahoo.com Mon Jan 16 22:02:25 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 35365 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2006 06:02:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2006 06:02:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52102.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.105) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2006 06:02:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 17915 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Jan 2006 06:01:07 -0000 Message-ID: <20060117060107.17913.qmail@web52102.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [211.28.165.96] by web52102.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 22:01:07 PST Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 22:01:07 -0800 (PST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <2bc.36defb4.30fdce65@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.105 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Cool List of Facts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=qkzIIONMLa7BfH-zFbj2gC4lws1eX86GzqfbIM_RLL53w7LcIQ X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brilliant and refreshing post Leon, I was one of the 75%. Cass leonmaurer@aol.com wrote:=20 ... To lighten things up a bit around here. Interesting ... And fun to boot ... =EF=BF=BD > Here are some Interesting language origins and factoids: > =EF=BF=BD > 1. In the 1400's a law was set forth that a man was not allowed > to beat his wife with a stick no thicker than his thumb. Hence we have > "the rule of thumb". >=20 > 2. Many years ago in Scotland, a new game was invented. It was > ruled "Gentlemen Only...Ladies Forbidden"...and thus the word GOLF > entered into the English language. >=20 > 3. The first couple to be shown in bed together on prime time TV > were Fred and Wilma Flintstone. >=20 > 4. Every day more money is printed for Monopoly than the US > Treasury. >=20 > 5. Men can read smaller print than women; women can hear better. >=20 > 6. Coca-Cola was originally green. >=20 > 7. It is impossible to lick your elbow. >=20 > 8. The average number of people airborne over the US any given > hour: 61,000. >=20 > 9. Intelligent people have more zinc and copper in their hair. >=20 > 10. The first novel ever written on a typewriter: Tom Sawyer. >=20 > 11. Each king in a deck of playing cards represents a great king > from history: > =EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD Spades - King David > =EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD Hearts - Charlemagne > =EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD Clubs -Alexander, the Great > =EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD Diamonds - Julius Caesar >=20 > 12. 111,111,111 x 111,111,111 =3D 12,345,678,987,654,321 >=20 > 13. If a statue in the park of a person on a horse has both > front legs in the air, the person died in battle. If the horse has one > front leg in the air the person died as a result of wounds received in > battle. If the horse has all four legs on the ground, the person died of > natural causes. >=20 > 14. If you were to spell out numbers, how far would you have to > go until you would find the letter "A"?......One thousand. >=20 > 15. What do bulletproof vests, fire escapes, windshield wipers, > and laser printers all have in common?......All invented by women. >=20 > 16. What is the only food that doesn't spoil?......Honey > =EF=BF=BD > 17. In Shakespeare's time, mattresses were secured on bed frames > by ropes. When you pulled on the ropes the mattress tightened, making > the bed firmer to sleep on. Hence the phrase........."goodnight, sleep > tight." >=20 > 18. It was the accepted practice in Babylon 4,000 years ago that > for a month after the wedding, the bride's father would supply his > son-in-law with all the mead he could drink. Mead is a honey beer and > because their calendar was lunar based, this period was called the honey > month, which we know today as the honeymoon. >=20 > 19. In English pubs, ale is ordered by pints and quarts. So in > old England, when customers got unruly, the bartender would yell at > them "Mind your pints and quarts, and settle down."=20 > It's where we get the phrase "mind your P's and Q's." >=20 > 20. Many years ago in England, pub frequenters had a whistle > baked into the rim, or handle, of their ceramic cups. When they needed a > refill, they used the whistle to get some service. "Wet your whistle" is > the phrase inspired by this practice. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Don't delete the following just because it looks weird. Believe it or not= ,=20 > you can read it. >=20 > "I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdgnieg. T= he=20 > phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid aoccdrnig to rscheearch at Cmabrigde=20 > Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in > a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be= in=20 > the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it=20 > wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lte= ter by=20 > istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh?" >=20 > ~~~~~~~~~~~AND FINALLY~~~~~~~~~~~~ > At least 75% of people who read this will try to lick their > elbow... > We don't stop playing because we grow old; > we grow old because we stop playing. > George Bernard Shaw >=20 >=20 >=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20 =09=09=09 --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands A= SAP. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Mon Jan 16 22:06:00 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46079 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2006 06:06:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2006 06:06:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52113.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.116) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2006 06:05:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 82720 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Jan 2006 06:04:50 -0000 Message-ID: <20060117060450.82718.qmail@web52113.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [211.28.165.96] by web52113.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 22:04:50 PST Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 22:04:50 -0800 (PST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <43CC8448.7090005@sprynet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.116 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Cool List of Facts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=oriqOGiXqO6sj_2naLK0SzbGCPQel1Wnb42368XRisd4Dai7Hw X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Bart Who cares, I didn't know it was an intelligence test. Cass Bart Lidofsky wrote: leonmaurer@aol.com wrote: >>Here are some Interesting language origins and factoids: >>=20 >>1. In the 1400's a law was set forth that a man was not allowed >>to beat his wife with a stick no thicker than his thumb. Hence we have >>"the rule of thumb". Bullshit. It's a myth that was created so that feminists can hit men=20 over the head with sticks as revenge. The term "rule of thumb" comes=20 from using one's thumb as a measuring device. >>2. Many years ago in Scotland, a new game was invented. It was >>ruled "Gentlemen Only...Ladies Forbidden"...and thus the word GOLF >>entered into the English language. Except that the name of the game was originally GOWF, which stood for=20 nothing. More methods of creating a false history of victimization. >>3. The first couple to be shown in bed together on prime time TV >>were Fred and Wilma Flintstone. According to Snopes, Mary Kay and Johnny, a 1947 sitcom, was the first.=20 Ozzie and Harriet and even Lucy and Ricky were depicted as sleeping in=20 the same bed in individual episodes. >>4. Every day more money is printed for Monopoly than the US >>Treasury. That may be true, if you take the value of the money. But, by that=20 token, I can print a single bill, that says, "One Trillion Dollars", and=20 say that I print more money than the U.S. Treasury (which prints about=20 $70 billion a year). On the other hand, if you count number of bills,=20 then even high estimates of Monopoly's annual sales makes them print=20 only about a third as many bills as the U.S. Treasury. >>5. Men can read smaller print than women; women can hear better. Probably. >>6. Coca-Cola was originally green. Nope. The original formula had caramel coloring. It was, however,=20 originally bottled in green glass bottles. >>7. It is impossible to lick your elbow. Pretty much. I'd have to ask Gene Simmons. I've heard that some people=20 can, but it's very rare. >>9. Intelligent people have more zinc and copper in their hair. Blond joke. >>10. The first novel ever written on a typewriter: Tom Sawyer. Probably should be qualified by the word, "famous". >>11. Each king in a deck of playing cards represents a great king >>from history: >> Spades - King David >> Hearts - Charlemagne >> Clubs -Alexander, the Great >> Diamonds - Julius Caesar Seeing that Kings in decks predate European card decks, that is not at=20 all likely. >>13. If a statue in the park of a person on a horse has both >>front legs in the air, the person died in battle. If the horse has one >>front leg in the air the person died as a result of wounds received in >>battle. If the horse has all four legs on the ground, the person died of >>natural causes. Myth. >>14. If you were to spell out numbers, how far would you have to >>go until you would find the letter "A"?......One thousand. one hundred And one. >>15. What do bulletproof vests, fire escapes, windshield wipers, >>and laser printers all have in common?......All invented by women. Gary Stackweather, inventor of the laser printer, would be VERY=20 surprised to hear that, as would Rev. Casimir Zeglen, inventor of the=20 bulletproof vest, and Daniel Maseres, inventor of the fire escape.=20 However, Mary Anderson did receive the first patent for windshield wipers. >>16. What is the only food that doesn't spoil?......Honey And fruitcake. And refined sugar. >>17. In Shakespeare's time, mattresses were secured on bed frames >>by ropes. When you pulled on the ropes the mattress tightened, making >>the bed firmer to sleep on. Hence the phrase........."goodnight, sleep >>tight." According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the word, "tight" can be=20 used to mean "soundly", hence, "sleep soundly". The above is an old=20 tourists guides' story. >>18. It was the accepted practice in Babylon 4,000 years ago that >>for a month after the wedding, the bride's father would supply his >>son-in-law with all the mead he could drink. Mead is a honey beer and >>because their calendar was lunar based, this period was called the honey >>month, which we know today as the honeymoon. Except that, according to the Oxford English Dictionary, the term only=20 dates back to the 16th Century. >>19. In English pubs, ale is ordered by pints and quarts. So in >>old England, when customers got unruly, the bartender would yell at >>them "Mind your pints and quarts, and settle down."=20 >>It's where we get the phrase "mind your P's and Q's." The etymology is unknown, but a more likely source is moveable type,=20 where lower case "p's" and "q's" are easily mixed up because of the=20 reversals. >>20. Many years ago in England, pub frequenters had a whistle >>baked into the rim, or handle, of their ceramic cups. When they needed a >>refill, they used the whistle to get some service. "Wet your whistle" is >>the phrase inspired by this practice. I'd like to see a picture of one; otherwise, I'll accept the version=20 that you can't whistle when your mouth is dry. Bart =20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20 =09=09 --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos =96 Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover Photo Books. You design it and we=92ll bind it! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Drpsionic@aol.com Mon Jan 16 22:25:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52825 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2006 06:25:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2006 06:25:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d23.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.137) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2006 06:25:40 -0000 Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.264.4272d37 (58677) for ; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 01:17:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <264.4272d37.30fde604@aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 01:17:40 EST To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5021 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.139.137 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Cool List of Facts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=er2Nozb3jjk9ItkPRy-RdGzZegxT9JaiPmgFGME2iItOpN2LuQ X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/16/2006 11:45:48 PM Central Standard Time, bartl@sprynet.com writes: Bullshit. It's a myth that was created so that feminists can hit men over the head with sticks as revenge. The term "rule of thumb" comes from using one's thumb as a measuring device. Which is why god created baseball bats to use on feminists. (Oh to be young and energetic again!) Chuck the Heretic [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From leonmaurer@aol.com Mon Jan 16 22:37:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93415 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2006 06:37:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2006 06:37:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m16.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.206) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2006 06:37:21 -0000 Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.20e.10c87a08 (18555) for ; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 01:37:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <20e.10c87a08.30fdea92@aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 01:37:06 EST To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Thunderbird - Mac OS X sub 310 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.138.206 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: leonmaurer@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Cool List of Facts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972; y=h89TM0NtFiUkB01XOGXh-75dJAB4Vvpt0J4uRI6maGET4qAXzM0 X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Aren't you the spoil sport... Where's your sense of humor?=20=20=20 Besides, the number 1,001 is spelled out on checks as "One Thousand one"=20 (plus the "and xx/xx" for the zero cents).=20 So, you ain't so smart after all -- and all your other claims of myth may b= e=20 just as far off the track. :-) Leon=20 (whose real name is Leonardo or Lenny) In a message dated 1/17/06 12:45:48 AM, bartl@sprynet.com writes: > leonmaurer@aol.com wrote: > >>Here are some Interesting language origins and factoids: > >> > >>1. In the 1400's a law was set forth that a man was not allowed > >>to beat his wife with a stick no thicker than his thumb. Hence we have > >>"the rule of thumb". >=20 > =A0 =A0 Bullshit. It's a myth that was created so that feminists can hit = men > over the head with sticks as revenge. The term "rule of thumb" comes > from using one's thumb as a measuring device. >=20 > >>2. Many years ago in Scotland, a new game was invented. It was > >>ruled "Gentlemen Only...Ladies Forbidden"...and thus the word GOLF > >>entered into the English language. >=20 > =A0 =A0 Except that the name of the game was originally GOWF, which stood= for > nothing. More methods of creating a false history of victimization. >=20 > >>3. The first couple to be shown in bed together on prime time TV > >>were Fred and Wilma Flintstone. >=20 > =A0 =A0 According to Snopes, Mary Kay and Johnny, a 1947 sitcom, was the = first. > Ozzie and Harriet and even Lucy and Ricky were depicted as sleeping in > the same bed in individual episodes. >=20 > >>4. Every day more money is printed for Monopoly than the US > >>Treasury. >=20 > That may be true, if you take the value of the money. But, by that > token, I can print a single bill, that says, "One Trillion Dollars", and > say that I print more money than the U.S. Treasury (which prints about > $70 billion a year). On the other hand, if you count number of bills, > then even high estimates of Monopoly's annual sales makes them print > only about a third as many bills as the U.S. Treasury. >=20 > >>5. Men can read smaller print than women; women can hear better. >=20 > Probably. >=20 > >>6. Coca-Cola was originally green. >=20 > Nope. The original formula had caramel coloring. It was, however, > originally bottled in green glass bottles. >=20 > >>7. It is impossible to lick your elbow. >=20 > Pretty much. I'd have to ask Gene Simmons. I've heard that some people > can, but it's very rare. >=20 > >>9. Intelligent people have more zinc and copper in their hair. >=20 > Blond joke. >=20 > >>10. The first novel ever written on a typewriter: Tom Sawyer. >=20 > Probably should be qualified by the word, "famous". >=20 > >>11. Each king in a deck of playing cards represents a great king > >>from history: > >>=A0 =A0 =A0 Spades - King David > >>=A0 =A0 =A0 Hearts - Charlemagne > >>=A0 =A0 =A0 Clubs -Alexander, the Great > >>=A0 =A0 =A0 Diamonds - Julius Caesar >=20 > =A0 =A0 Seeing that Kings in decks predate European card decks, that is n= ot at > all likely. >=20 > >>13. If a statue in the park of a person on a horse has both > >>front legs in the air, the person died in battle. If the horse has one > >>front leg in the air the person died as a result of wounds received in > >>battle. If the horse has all four legs on the ground, the person died o= f > >>natural causes. >=20 > Myth. >=20 >=20 > >>14. If you were to spell out numbers, how far would you have to > >>go until you would find the letter "A"?......One thousand. >=20 > one hundred And one. >=20 > >>15. What do bulletproof vests, fire escapes, windshield wipers, > >>and laser printers all have in common?......All invented by women. >=20 > Gary Stackweather, inventor of the laser printer, would be VERY > surprised to hear that, as would Rev. Casimir Zeglen, inventor of the > bulletproof vest, and Daniel Maseres, inventor of the fire escape. > However, Mary Anderson did receive the first patent for windshield wipers= . >=20 > >>16. What is the only food that doesn't spoil?......Honey >=20 > And fruitcake. And refined sugar. >=20 > >>17. In Shakespeare's time, mattresses were secured on bed frames > >>by ropes. When you pulled on the ropes the mattress tightened, making > >>the bed firmer to sleep on. Hence the phrase........."goodnight, sleep > >>tight." >=20 > According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the word, "tight" can be > used to mean "soundly", hence, "sleep soundly". The above is an old > tourists guides' story. >=20 > >>18. It was the accepted practice in Babylon 4,000 years ago that > >>for a month after the wedding, the bride's father would supply his > >>son-in-law with all the mead he could drink. Mead is a honey beer and > >>because their calendar was lunar based, this period was called the hone= y > >>month, which we know today as the honeymoon. >=20 > Except that, according to the Oxford English Dictionary, the term only > dates back to the 16th Century. >=20 > >>19. In English pubs, ale is ordered by pints and quarts. So in > >>old England, when customers got unruly, the bartender would yell at > >>them "Mind your pints and quarts, and settle down." > >>It's where we get the phrase "mind your P's and Q's." >=20 > The etymology is unknown, but a more likely source is moveable type, > where lower case "p's" and "q's" are easily mixed up because of the > reversals. >=20 >=20 > >>20. Many years ago in England, pub frequenters had a whistle > >>baked into the rim, or handle, of their ceramic cups. When they needed = a > >>refill, they used the whistle to get some service. "Wet your whistle" i= s > >>the phrase inspired by this practice. >=20 > I'd like to see a picture of one; otherwise, I'll accept the version > that you can't whistle when your mouth is dry. >=20 > =A0 =A0 Bart >=20 >=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Jan 17 04:21:57 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51405 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2006 12:21:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2006 12:21:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.70) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2006 12:21:56 -0000 Received: from [216.175.69.13] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EypmX-0004kf-UD; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 07:17:50 -0500 To: Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 04:17:02 -0800 Message-ID: <006401c61b5f$ff046900$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <2a7006300601170244y2e8d52c1o3088301b70bd1f71@mail.gmail.com> X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79081e68d476a3e8373abcd83d4816d3f1350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: Think Again: Charlie Darwin's angels X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=jmTJCdTzawNYTLVV_wBJ8JeBBEO_Gfu5fyueXZNP0ueZbA X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1/17/2006 3:53 AM Dear Odin: Finally: Now that is worth reprinting. But I would like to have the source references of these mighty "authorities." Thanks, Dallas ==================================== -----Original Message----- From: Odin Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 To: Subject: THINK AGAIN: CHARLIE DARWIN'S ANGELS JPost.com > Columns > Article http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?apage=1 &cid=1136361067333&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull Jan. 16, 2006 THINK AGAIN: CHARLIE DARWIN'S ANGELS By Jonathan Rosenblum A federal district court judge in Pennsylvania ruled last month that a few brief paragraphs read to schoolchildren informing them that there are holes in the Darwinian theory of evolution and that an alternative theory of Intelligent Design exists violated the US Constitution's establishment clause. Judge John Jones did not consider, however, whether Darwinism might itself be a form of religion, or anti-religion, based largely on a priori assumptions. In the apt phrase of Berkeley law professor Philip Johnson, Darwinism is the "creation story of scientific naturalism" - the doctrine that everything can be explained by natural, material forces. For tactical reasons, Darwin's scientific supporters often prefer to minimize the clash between traditional religion and the Darwinian vision of all life developing via trillions of random micro-mutations sifted by natural selection. Many, however, candidly admit that Darwin leaves no room in human affairs for God. Darwinian evolution, writes Oxford University's Richard Dawkins, makes it possible "to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist." For George Gaylord Simpson, Darwin shows that "man is the result of a purposeless and natural process that did not have him in mind." Darwin's mechanistic universe establishes further, according to Cornell's William Provine, that there are "no moral or ethical laws..." Yet, as the brochure for the British Museum of Natural History's 1981 exhibit on Darwin noted, "evolution by natural selection is not strictly speaking scientific because it is established by logical deduction rather than empirical demonstration." When the museum's chief paleontologist Colin Patterson asked the members of a graduate seminar in evolutionary morphology at the University of Chicago to tell him just one thing that they knew to be true about Darwinian evolution, based on empirical evidence, the result was a long and embarrassed silence. Karl Popper famously DEFINED A SCIENTIFIC THEORY AS ONE THAT CAN BE FALSIFIED. When Einstein propounded his General Theory of Relativity, for instance, he made a series of bold predictions based on the theory. By contrast, Darwinists proceed by assuming the truth of the theory and then seeking empirical support. Studies of the fossil record that fail to buttress the theory are deemed "failures" and never published. The search for Darwinian common "ancestors," according to Gareth Nelson of the American Museum of Natural History, proceeds on the assumption that those ancestors exist and then selecting the most likely candidates. The mechanism by which nature is alleged to have fashioned a single ancestor into both whales and man has never been observed. Indeed, its existence is based on a wild extrapolation from the commonplace observation that within a single species different traits provide a survival advantage in certain circumstances - e.g., black moths fare better vis-a-vis predators against a sooty backdrop and light moths do better in a clean environment. That's a long way from creating new species. Nor can Darwinists explain how complex systems, such as human sight, none of whose component parts would alone provide any advantage, could have come into being by a long series of micro-mutations. The best Darwinists can offer in response are what Harvard professors Stephen Jay Gould and Richard Lewontin call "just-so" stories about how each of the postulated (but never observed) changes in each part of the system conferred some advantage. FACED WITH these challenges, the Darwinist response is largely confined to rhetorical efforts to shut up the questioner: "You're advocating specific creation" or "What's your alternative?" The latter question, Philip Johnson notes in his invaluable DARWIN ON TRIAL, is like telling a criminal defendant he can't offer an alibi until he can produce the perpetrator. And the force of the question derives exclusively from the fact that all elements of design have been ruled out of consideration a priori, as failing to conform to scientific naturalism. The fossil record fails to provide evidence of the millions of transitional species that Darwin's theory assumes have existed. Their absence, writes Stephen Jay Gould, is the "trade secret of paleontology." The fossil record is largely one of species and groups of species coming into existence fully formed, remaining unchanged throughout their history, and becoming extinct by virtue of some great catastrophe, not because they were replaced by better-adapted descendants. Nor, according to paleontologist Stephen Stanley, does the fossil record provide a single example of "major morphological transition." Admits Niles Eldridge: "We paleontologists have said that the history of life supports the story of gradual adoptive change, all the while knowing that it does not." Faced with the poor fit between the empirical facts and Darwin's theory, scientists face the unpalatable choice between maintaining the theory, despite its poor fit with the observed facts, or introducing the types of major leaps, or "saltations," that Darwin rejected as incompatible with his theory. Those leaps, whether in the form of geneticist Richard Goldschmidt's hypothesis of stable macro-mutations, or Otto Schindewolf's suggestion that the first bird hatched from a reptile egg, or Eldridge and Gould's theory of punctuated equilibrium, are, as Darwin recognized, as supernatural as God's hand. Worse, as Eldridge puts it, they require the "embrace of a rather dubious set of biological propositions." Even if Darwinian theory were in better shape than it is, the scientific naturalists' project of eliminating all elements of design from nature would still founder ON THE CREATION OF LIFE ITSELF. Cambridge astronomer Fred Hoyle once compared the chances of forming the simplest one-cell bacterium from pre-biotic soup as roughly equivalent to that of a tornado sweeping through a junkyard and producing a Boeing 747. Even a one-cell organism makes a spaceship look low-tech by comparison. Hoyle also discovered that carbon, the basis of all organic life, could have only been fashioned in the original solar furnace because of the perfect nuclear resonance between two sets of simpler elements. His conclusion: "[A] superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as with chemistry and biology, and there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature." IT IS TIME TO STOP TEACHING OUR CHILDREN THAT SCIENCE HAS ANSWERED ALL THE QUESTIONS AND ELIMINATED GOD FROM THE COSMOS. -------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com Tue Jan 17 08:24:49 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: christinaleestemaker@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91137 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2006 16:24:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2006 16:24:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.40) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2006 16:24:47 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2006 16:21:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2006 16:21:25 -0000 Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 16:21:24 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <2bc.36defb4.30fdce65@aol.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.40 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 83.85.188.51 From: "christinaleestemaker" Subject: Re: Cool List of Facts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=162317756; y=CamVXhpZbp0kMsFxYVSnibvKopFwe_sWRxiCVyxQx73sfLzR0Si5-yOobsftbZA X-Yahoo-Profile: christinaleestemaker -Nice, there can be one follow: FBI =3D Female Body Inspector Greetings Christina.L. -- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, leonmaurer@a... wrote: > >=20 > ... To lighten things up a bit around here. >=20 > Interesting ... And fun to boot ... >=20 > =A0 > > Here are some Interesting language origins and factoids: > > =A0 > > 1. In the 1400's a law was set forth that a man was not allowed > > to beat his wife with a stick no thicker than his thumb. Hence=20 we have > > "the rule of thumb". > >=20 > > 2. Many years ago in Scotland, a new game was invented. It was > > ruled "Gentlemen Only...Ladies Forbidden"...and thus the word=20 GOLF > > entered into the English language. > >=20 > > 3. The first couple to be shown in bed together on prime time TV > > were Fred and Wilma Flintstone. > >=20 > > 4. Every day more money is printed for Monopoly than the US > > Treasury. > >=20 > > 5. Men can read smaller print than women; women can hear better. > >=20 > > 6. Coca-Cola was originally green. > >=20 > > 7. It is impossible to lick your elbow. > >=20 > > 8. The average number of people airborne over the US any given > > hour: 61,000. > >=20 > > 9. Intelligent people have more zinc and copper in their hair. > >=20 > > 10. The first novel ever written on a typewriter: Tom Sawyer. > >=20 > > 11. Each king in a deck of playing cards represents a great king > > from history: > > =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Spades - King David > > =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Hearts - Charlemagne > > =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Clubs -Alexander, the Great > > =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Diamonds - Julius Caesar > >=20 > > 12. 111,111,111 x 111,111,111 =3D 12,345,678,987,654,321 > >=20 > > 13. If a statue in the park of a person on a horse has both > > front legs in the air, the person died in battle. If the horse=20 has one > > front leg in the air the person died as a result of wounds=20 received in > > battle. If the horse has all four legs on the ground, the person=20 died of > > natural causes. > >=20 > > 14. If you were to spell out numbers, how far would you have to > > go until you would find the letter "A"?......One thousand. > >=20 > > 15. What do bulletproof vests, fire escapes, windshield wipers, > > and laser printers all have in common?......All invented by=20 women. > >=20 > > 16. What is the only food that doesn't spoil?......Honey > > =A0 > > 17. In Shakespeare's time, mattresses were secured on bed frames > > by ropes. When you pulled on the ropes the mattress tightened,=20 making > > the bed firmer to sleep on. Hence the phrase........."goodnight,=20 sleep > > tight." > >=20 > > 18. It was the accepted practice in Babylon 4,000 years ago that > > for a month after the wedding, the bride's father would supply=20 his > > son-in-law with all the mead he could drink. Mead is a honey=20 beer and > > because their calendar was lunar based, this period was called=20 the honey > > month, which we know today as the honeymoon. > >=20 > > 19. In English pubs, ale is ordered by pints and quarts. So in > > old England, when customers got unruly, the bartender would yell=20 at > > them "Mind your pints and quarts, and settle down."=20 > > It's where we get the phrase "mind your P's and Q's." > >=20 > > 20. Many years ago in England, pub frequenters had a whistle > > baked into the rim, or handle, of their ceramic cups. When they=20 needed a > > refill, they used the whistle to get some service. "Wet your=20 whistle" is > > the phrase inspired by this practice. > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > Don't delete the following just because it looks weird. Believe=20 it or not,=20 > > you can read it. > >=20 > > "I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was=20 rdgnieg. The=20 > > phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid aoccdrnig to rscheearch at=20 Cmabrigde=20 > > Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in > > a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat=20 ltteer be in=20 > > the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll=20 raed it=20 > > wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed=20 ervey lteter by=20 > > istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh?" > >=20 > > ~~~~~~~~~~~AND FINALLY~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > At least 75% of people who read this will try to lick their > > elbow... > > We don't stop playing because we grow old; > > we grow old because we stop playing. > > George Bernard Shaw > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > From ibse03888@blueyonder.co.uk Tue Jan 17 08:56:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: ibse03888@blueyonder.co.uk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95015 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2006 16:56:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2006 16:56:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-out6.blueyonder.co.uk) (195.188.213.9) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2006 16:56:29 -0000 Received: from your904q9zk0ar ([82.41.80.73]) by smtp-out6.blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 17 Jan 2006 16:52:12 +0000 Message-ID: <001601c61b86$35d2c190$49502952@your904q9zk0ar> To: References: <264.4272d37.30fde604@aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 16:51:06 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Return-Path: ibse03888@blueyonder.co.uk X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jan 2006 16:52:12.0922 (UTC) FILETIME=[5D29B5A0:01C61B86] X-Originating-IP: 195.188.213.9 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Iain" Subject: Re: Theos-World Cool List of Facts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=182405197 Quite correct Chuck. Many measurements came from the King , such as a foot, a cubit, (distance from outstretched elbow to elbow) A Span from outstretched fingertip to fingertip.It varied whenever a new King took over the measurements were then amended, hence the expression getting the measure of someone. As for the rule of thumb the thick ness of a rod would be more appropriately determined by diameter(?) of the male member in order to keep women in their placeand thankful for it,but times have changed since those bygone days,when men were men and women were glad of it. your humble servant, Iain ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 6:17 AM Subject: Re: Theos-World Cool List of Facts > > In a message dated 1/16/2006 11:45:48 PM Central Standard Time, > bartl@sprynet.com writes: > > Bullshit. It's a myth that was created so that feminists can hit men > over the head with sticks as revenge. The term "rule of thumb" comes > from using one's thumb as a measuring device. > > > > Which is why god created baseball bats to use on feminists. (Oh to be > young > and energetic again!) > > Chuck the Heretic > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > From Drpsionic@aol.com Tue Jan 17 10:37:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: Drpsionic@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38662 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2006 18:37:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2006 18:37:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m17.mx.aol.com) (64.12.138.207) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2006 18:37:25 -0000 Received: from Drpsionic@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.1f6.19b58a19 (57293) for ; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 13:32:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1f6.19b58a19.30fe9225@aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 13:32:05 EST To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5021 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.138.207 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Drpsionic@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Cool List of Facts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=755162; y=1Y_FFdSqZj-8VdpNLTouFdWHeZWcLK4bigXx42yOF264f0xbAA X-Yahoo-Profile: c_cosimano Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/17/2006 11:11:00 AM Central Standard Time, ibse03888@blueyonder.co.uk writes: Quite correct Chuck. Many measurements came from the King , such as a foot, a cubit, (distance from outstretched elbow to elbow) A Span from outstretched fingertip to fingertip.It varied whenever a new King took over the measurements were then amended, hence the expression getting the measure of someone. As for the rule of thumb the thick ness of a rod would be more appropriately determined by diameter(?) of the male member in order to keep women in their placeand thankful for it,but times have changed since those bygone days,when men were men and women were glad of it. your humble servant, Iain Actually it was Bart that pointed it out. But the story predates the feminists of the 1970s. I have an old novel by Thomas Costain written in the 1940s that has a character referring to the size of the stick to beat the servant being no bigger than the size of a thumb. So it's been around for a long time. Chuck the Heretic [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From leonmaurer@aol.com Tue Jan 17 12:04:52 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88182 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2006 20:04:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2006 20:04:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d05.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.37) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2006 20:04:51 -0000 Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.15b.5f89a779 (48576); Tue, 17 Jan 2006 14:57:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <15b.5f89a779.30fea60c@aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 14:57:00 EST MIME-Version: 1.0 To: undisclosed-recipients:; X-Mailer: Thunderbird - Mac OS X sub 310 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.157.37 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: leonmaurer@aol.com Subject: Re: Weekly Review: Science versus the Death Penalty X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972; y=oLCFknfiFAXW7XoHAHzzTQtzMS4voGNXtnH1Yw5FZ49XYdGiE1Y X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aside from the theosophical moral considerations -- here's how scientific materialists consider why the death penalty in criminal cases is wrong. Can this approach assist the universal acceptance of the theosophical principles and their application toward furthering brotherhood and respect for the sanctity of all life? If so, how so, and if not, why not? ** Science versus the Death Penalty (Commentary in Scientific American's BLOG) Last December was a special month for U.S. executions. North Carolina gave a lethal injection to Kenneth Boyd, making him the 1,000th person to be executed since the 1976 Supreme Court decision to allow the reinstatement of the death penalty. Soon thereafter, on December 13, California put to death Crip gang founder Stanley "Tookie" Williams. The U.S. remains the only developed Western nation to permit executions despite serious flaws in the system. No need for any pacifist proclivity or liberal leaning to see that--just look at the science. http://cl.exct.net/?ffcb10-fe4910777c670d787c1c-fdff15737467027b71167477-ff331 0707762 OR: http://tinyurl.com/8x43s [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From bartl@sprynet.com Tue Jan 17 12:46:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 67998 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2006 20:46:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2006 20:46:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.65) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2006 20:46:40 -0000 Received: from [151.198.115.250] (helo=sprynet.com) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Eyxfp-0005xM-3h for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:43:25 -0500 Message-ID: <43CD56F1.2070806@sprynet.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:43:29 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: <264.4272d37.30fde604@aol.com> <001601c61b86$35d2c190$49502952@your904q9zk0ar> In-Reply-To: <001601c61b86$35d2c190$49502952@your904q9zk0ar> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: 5be619ec394aa49c25eb773df4b61cba311da1fd9aca207f0e6f54500327311c387f7b89c61deb1d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.65 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Theos-World Cool List of Facts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=690370; y=V_FASc8ACJUrALd83LBjdvBJkXj-krCGXSWq3UDxHWuw4eE X-Yahoo-Profile: bml07646 Iain wrote: > As for the rule of thumb the thick ness of a rod would be more > appropriately determined by diameter(?) of the male member in order to keep > women in their placeand thankful for it,but times have changed since those > bygone days,when men were men and women were glad of it. > your humble servant, Do you have a specific reference to ANY law which gave the kind of stick with which a man could beat his wife? All I have found is indirect references "it was a law somewhere, at some time, but I can't quote it." Bart From silva_cass@yahoo.com Tue Jan 17 15:38:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18814 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2006 23:38:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2006 23:38:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52111.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.114) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2006 23:38:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 53652 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Jan 2006 23:26:08 -0000 Message-ID: <20060117232608.53650.qmail@web52111.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [211.28.165.96] by web52111.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:26:08 PST Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:26:08 -0800 (PST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <264.4272d37.30fde604@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.114 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Cool List of Facts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=m0cB8KhCAX1tNP1S7HHsrt-WLHXmnN0NC5feicziPuAXIc1BfA X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yep, and who was it that told the kids to go outside and hit a ball with a stick? The Mums. We have been getting them out of the house ever since. Cass Drpsionic@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 1/16/2006 11:45:48 PM Central Standard Time, bartl@sprynet.com writes: Bullshit. It's a myth that was created so that feminists can hit men over the head with sticks as revenge. The term "rule of thumb" comes from using one's thumb as a measuring device. Which is why god created baseball bats to use on feminists. (Oh to be young and energetic again!) Chuck the Heretic [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ibse03888@blueyonder.co.uk Tue Jan 17 16:37:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: ibse03888@blueyonder.co.uk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39441 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2006 00:37:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jan 2006 00:37:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-out6.blueyonder.co.uk) (195.188.213.9) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2006 00:37:25 -0000 Received: from your904q9zk0ar ([82.41.80.73]) by smtp-out6.blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 18 Jan 2006 00:16:04 +0000 Message-ID: <001501c61bc4$371e2420$49502952@your904q9zk0ar> To: References: <264.4272d37.30fde604@aol.com> <001601c61b86$35d2c190$49502952@your904q9zk0ar> <43CD56F1.2070806@sprynet.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 00:14:57 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Return-Path: ibse03888@blueyonder.co.uk X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jan 2006 00:16:04.0616 (UTC) FILETIME=[5EE3B880:01C61BC4] X-Originating-IP: 195.188.213.9 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Iain" Subject: Re: Theos-World Cool List of Facts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=182405197 Bart, it would be an unwritten law from medieval times what is known as "Common Law"" which was regaurded as accepted practice,both in Scotland and England, as many people including the landed gentry could not write in those days then it would have been an Oral tradition. I am sure that Geofry Chaucer mentions it in one of his bawdy stories in Canterbury Tales but it has been some time since I read them and alot of the writtings of the time in "olde English" are liable to misinterpretation. I hope this is of help your 'umble servant Iain ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bart Lidofsky" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 8:43 PM Subject: Re: Theos-World Cool List of Facts > Iain wrote: > > As for the rule of thumb the thick ness of a rod would be more >> appropriately determined by diameter(?) of the male member in order to >> keep >> women in their placeand thankful for it,but times have changed since >> those >> bygone days,when men were men and women were glad of it. >> your humble servant, > > Do you have a specific reference to ANY law which gave the kind of > stick with which a man could beat his wife? All I have found is indirect > references "it was a law somewhere, at some time, but I can't quote it." > > Bart > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > From bartl@sprynet.com Tue Jan 17 19:52:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: bartl@sprynet.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81791 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2006 03:52:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jan 2006 03:52:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.63) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2006 03:52:45 -0000 Received: from [151.198.115.250] (helo=sprynet.com) by elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Ez4Lp-0003GY-MM for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 22:51:13 -0500 Message-ID: <43CDBB36.2010806@sprynet.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 22:51:18 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: <264.4272d37.30fde604@aol.com> <001601c61b86$35d2c190$49502952@your904q9zk0ar> <43CD56F1.2070806@sprynet.com> <001501c61bc4$371e2420$49502952@your904q9zk0ar> In-Reply-To: <001501c61bc4$371e2420$49502952@your904q9zk0ar> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: 5be619ec394aa49c25eb773df4b61cbaaa0ed0a1d071110952bc3a27d732b03a3122699149cfe979350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.63 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Bart Lidofsky Subject: Re: Theos-World Cool List of Facts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=690370; y=Ah7zeYZJh5hIRc4Bk4uEyik_mL6ZNCtxzK_vyYBnxscXJPk X-Yahoo-Profile: bml07646 Iain wrote: > Bart, it would be an unwritten law from medieval times what is known as > "Common Law"" which was regaurded as accepted practice,both in Scotland and > England, as many people including the landed gentry could not write in those > days then it would have been an Oral tradition. Hell, in Business Law 101 they taught us that Common Law is absolutely written down. It is civil, not criminal law, and based on judicial precedents, with records VERY carefully kept. Bart From silva_cass@yahoo.com Tue Jan 17 23:17:29 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 58825 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2006 07:17:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jan 2006 07:17:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52111.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.114) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2006 07:17:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 65610 invoked by uid 60001); 18 Jan 2006 04:30:28 -0000 Message-ID: <20060118043027.65608.qmail@web52111.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [211.28.165.96] by web52111.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 17 Jan 2006 20:30:27 PST Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 20:30:27 -0800 (PST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <15b.5f89a779.30fea60c@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.114 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Weekly Review: Science versus the Death Penalty X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=TvRzafAAygWdAcgRwqEflMyuGPuskzvxaUq5OPyqCUVlkQuneA X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Leon, I am definitely against Capital Punishment and believe, as Confuscius said, good for good, justice for evil. On a moral level I do not believe in an eye for an eye, but on a socratic level, should a criminal confess to murder and chose to end his own life then I believe the choice to be his and only his. The extinction of the physical ends the journey that the soul may have determined, prior to incarnation, and which was necessary to learn it's lifes lesson. It becomes a wasted life or worse probably incurs further karma. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if Capital Punishments incurs national karma for those who live within that system. Cass leonmaurer@aol.com wrote: Aside from the theosophical moral considerations -- here's how scientific materialists consider why the death penalty in criminal cases is wrong. Can this approach assist the universal acceptance of the theosophical principles and their application toward furthering brotherhood and respect for the sanctity of all life? If so, how so, and if not, why not? ** Science versus the Death Penalty (Commentary in Scientific American's BLOG) Last December was a special month for U.S. executions. North Carolina gave a lethal injection to Kenneth Boyd, making him the 1,000th person to be executed since the 1976 Supreme Court decision to allow the reinstatement of the death penalty. Soon thereafter, on December 13, California put to death Crip gang founder Stanley "Tookie" Williams. The U.S. remains the only developed Western nation to permit executions despite serious flaws in the system. No need for any pacifist proclivity or liberal leaning to see that--just look at the science. http://cl.exct.net/?ffcb10-fe4910777c670d787c1c-fdff15737467027b71167477-ff331 0707762 OR: http://tinyurl.com/8x43s [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Wed Jan 18 05:09:51 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48605 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2006 13:09:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jan 2006 13:09:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.70) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2006 13:09:50 -0000 Received: from [216.175.69.13] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EzD1D-0001zm-RI; Wed, 18 Jan 2006 08:06:32 -0500 To: Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 05:06:07 -0800 Message-ID: <00d801c61c2f$f61e7670$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79a5d19fa2960905681ac0a8ec21446c41350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: understanding borrowed bodies X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=LOIR6lMIGCp7kmklyl42xWMzcA8V5D8NNOWEdk6kLuWsIA X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/18/2006 4:58 AM Thanks Laura Have a look at this: REINCARNATION EXPLAINS The mistakes and the sufferings of human life make me think sometimes that those ancient seers, or interpreters of the secrets of heaven and the counsels of the Divine Mind, had some glimpses of the truth, when they said that men are born in order to suffer the penalty for some sins committed in a former life. -- Cicero. Successive lives on earth in human bodies for the unfolding Mind-Soul of man is a reasonable and satisfying doctrine. It solves problems and answers questions that no other doctrine does. It is logical and our minds are satisfied if we examine its basis and principles. It not only engenders hope in the heart but also brings it the contentment born of understanding and the dauntless energy to press forward on the road to self-improvement leading to Self-realization. Cicero speaks of "ancient seers." In the modern world, they are not revered because their ideas are not studied. No era has been without seers, however few or however exotic. Mystics and Occultists down the ages have uniformly asserted the truth of Reincarnation. Transmigration, Metempsychosis, and other terms are also used. The main and central idea is that the human soul is immortal and unfolding. Its growth takes place in the soil of the body and its sensorium. The nature, as the genesis of the Soul, need not remain matters of conjecture and speculation. There is knowledge. It is not sought earnestly and sincerely because modern knowledge has pronounced the soul as mortal and the minds of large numbers are lazy, unquestioning, and charged with blind belief. There are other minds not influenced by materialistic science but by illogical theologies. Schopenhauer wrote: Were an Asiatic to ask me for a definition of Europe, I should be forced to answer him: It is that part of the world which is haunted by the incredible delusion that man was created out of nothing, and that his present birth is his first entrance into life. Since the days of this German, Asiatics have also become "civilized" and reject the immortality of the Soul. The tide has been turning and there have been not only mystics and poets but also scientists and men of affairs who hold fast to their own intimations of Reincarnation. The Law of Cycles, by which the processes of Nature take place, compels a logical mind to arrive at the conclusion that Reincarnation represents the cycle of human evolution. Man is born and dies as the universe is making the vast cycles of the days and nights of Brahma. Voltaire saw this when he said that "It is not more surprising to be born twice than once; everything in Nature is resurrection." One whole issue of this magazine would not suffice to present the intuitive expressions of poets, ancient or modern. They are in a class by themselves and are not bothered by the strictures of science or the syllogisms of logic. Relying on their own intuitions they have sung in China, India, Persia, and in Europe -- from Virgil and Ovid to Masefield, the Poet-laureate of Britain. One argument against a serious consideration of Reincarnation is its supposed impracticability. It is taken to be a teaching that stresses other-worldliness. This, once again, is a hasty deduction. It has been recommended that Reincarnation may be taken as a working hypothesis not only for the purposes of solving our personal problems, but also national and social ones. If Reincarnation were true what a vast change, a revolution, must take place in educating the young. If children's bodies enshrine immortal souls, who have been here before and who are here once again to pick up the thread of learning and experience, then the system of education and the methods of teaching would have to be transformed. Is there an idea more significant than this, which favors and ought to compel a sincere and unprejudiced enquiry into the principles and details of Reincarnation? Take penal reform. Are not delinquent boys or habitual criminals evolving intelligences? Is it right to deprive them of individual responsibility by saying society makes criminals? We do not deny the truth implicit in the statement that all of us are in a measure responsible for the crimes and sins committed by our brothers. They are young souls, or sick souls, who need schools and clinics run on the principles of a spiritual philosophy. Is there such a philosophy, which can sustain its consistency, without the teaching of Reincarnation? Men of modern knowledge accept numerous aspects of Reincarnation. Recurrence and resurrection create the spiral of progress everywhere. Death and Regeneration are to be seen everywhere. Why should it be otherwise with man's body which dies but which must refashion itself with the Will to Live which every human soul possesses and holds to with a superb tenacity? No, the great American, Benjamin Franklin was right in penning his own Epitaph when he was only 23 years old: -- The Body of Benjamin Franklin, Printer, Like the cover of an old book, Its contents worn out, And stripped of its lettering and gilding, Lies here, food for worms. But the work shall not be lost, For it will, as he believed, appear once more, In a new and more elegant edition, Revised and corrected by The Author. By B.P. Wadia [From THUS HAVE I HEARD, pages 200-3.] Best wishes, Dallas =================================== -----Original Message----- From: theosophia Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 6:22 PM To: Subject: [theosophia] understanding borrowed bodies An important idea to be realized by students when reading about borrowed bodies, is that there is a "fraternity of Elder Brothers" as Judge's Ocean of Theosophy states. They all know each other and work for the benefit of all Beings. The question then that always comes to mind is; What Im I doing to aid in that work? The only way we are ever going to know about the Nirmanikaya's and Mr. Judge is to become what we are trying to know. Mr. Judge always reminds us in his writing that this is best acheived through work. Laura From dalval14@earthlink.net Wed Jan 18 05:32:27 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10813 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2006 13:32:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jan 2006 13:32:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.70) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2006 13:32:26 -0000 Received: from [216.175.69.13] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EzDLX-0004zo-Tw; Wed, 18 Jan 2006 08:27:32 -0500 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 05:27:04 -0800 Message-ID: <00d901c61c32$e4a726a0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79d81c0420d6ad417f55931c15254326b0350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: ASTRAL TRAVEL, VISION X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=iGvmuN0X90cMjtPSiImmxAOqhW5Ut2D5kPF3MOJ8MwMWkw X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/18/2006 5:12 AM On Astral . Physical body relations Of interest: ASTRAL TRAVEL, VISION,=20 Q From J. V. - "There are two ways to ascend and descend, the direct and indirect." Tea Table, Oct. Path. (I) What are these ways? Answer - The thistle down is blown hither and thither with every breath of wind: The arrow speeds straight to the mark from the powerful bow= . The indirect way is that of the thistle down; the Astral going out when the body is asleep, does so in a diffused condition - a passive state - with no adequate force to control it or master unseen forces. It floats at the merc= y of every current in the Astral, gleaning here and there as a butterfly but taking the good and bad indiscriminately. It may reach high spheres, but is more likely to remain in those nearest to the physical. This way is travelled by all when asleep, and there dreams are made. It is the passive state where desire is the ruler, and sometimes travelled in the waking conscious state, but is uncontrollable and unreliable. The direct way is that of the arrow from the bow. The Astral speeds directl= y to the sphere which holds the knowledge it is to receive. It does so in obedience to an irresistible force - the Will: Will in accordance with divine law. It is concrete going and returning in obedience to this force, bringing little with it from intermediate spheres other than that for which it is seeking. This occurs in dreamless slumber and the knowledge acquired is not communicated in a dream. This way is travelled in the conscious stat= e for it is the way of the student of the Occult. Unless the man's thought an= d motive are pure, he is incapable of using the true will, and his Astral goe= s where other wills or forces drive it. It pauses when other forces interfere - learns from the place it happens to be in, and brings back a horrible jumble sometimes. (2) Where do these ways lead? One way leads to Theosophia - Illumination - when traveled awake or asleep. The other to consideration of self - ordinary living with its erroneous conceptions - as an Occult way, to love of phenomena and spiritism. They lead to spheres within the astral, for the astral body passes not beyond astral limits. Only when the soul is freed from the astral and material bodies does it pass to higher spheres. These ways also lead to planets, stars, and other worlds, for all these may be within the astral of this globe. Zadok Path, November, 1887 ----------------------------------------------------------- ASTRAL LIGHT VISION Q (2) May one walk for any distance along the Path without being able to see into the Astral Light, or without recognizing anything extraordinary= ? Answer - One may journey an entire life time on "The Path" and not see into the Astral Light consciously. All men see into it, for all who dream are looking there, the body being asleep and not receptive. One may journey a long distance and not see, for all do not work in the sam= e manner. Some may hear "ages before they see," or may feel a long time befor= e either seeing or hearing. The tool most efficient at a certain period is th= e one used. We may journey the entire way without recognizing anything extraordinary or encountering phenomena. The most extraordinary things are found in the most ordinary, and are overlooked because of their seeming familiarity. When the understanding is directed to the natural, one finds the supra-natural or supra-human things. All questions are vital so long as they remain unsolved but all will be answered. It requires patience in ourselves, for many times the answers do not come until years after the question has been propounded. If I can be of further use to you please consider me at your service. [ W Q J ART II P. 451 ] ---------------------------------------------- KAMA RUPA, MAYAVI RUPA AND NIRMANA-KAYA (Rupa) Discussion =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D We had been looking at this passage from the Secret Doctrine: "Those who believe in Karma have to believe in destiny, which, from birth t= o death, every man is weaving thread by thread around himself, as a spider does his cobweb; and this destiny is guided either by the heavenly voice of the invisible prototype outside of us, or by our more intimate astral, or inner man, who is but too often the evil genius of the embodied entity called man. Both these lead on the outward man, but one of them must prevail; and from the very beginning of the invisible affray the stern and implacable law of compensation steps in and takes its course, faithfully following the fluctuations. When the last strand is woven, and man is seemingly enwrapped in the net-work of his own doing, then he finds himself completely under the empire of this self-made destiny. It then either fixes him like the inert shell against the immovable rock, or carries him away like a feather in a whirlwind raised by his own actions, and this is-KARMA.= " SD I 639 PM It seems to this student that there may be more to the first sentence than just a beautiful metaphor. What is it that each of us "is weaving thread b= y thread around himself, as a spider does his cobweb"? What is this "net-work" of our own doing which eventually enwraps us, which eventually imprisons us or which may set us free? ------------------------------------------- DTB=09 Is it not the good or evil we have done in past lives that has affected the Monads of lesser development we call "skandhas?" They carry our Karma as th= e imprint on them of any distortion we may have then imposed.=20=20 They are attracted to us in this life under our mutual karma, and form our present "tools" on various planes (physical, astral, pranic, psychic and Kamic). If we distorted them then, they now give us imperfect tools to liv= e in (the quality of the 4 lower planes is thus determined by us, (knowingly or unknowingly). We understand something about this in terms of the kama-rupa (the result of the strands of selfish and personal desire, and the passions we develop and weave throughout our lives). It is these that form after death the coalesced astral body and Kama, into a "rupa" form, and when the EGO (Buddhi-Manas) retires to Devachan, it is left behind in the kama-loka (region/state) to disintegrate soon or late, depending on the force of the impresses we made. It (Kama-Rupa) remains behind when the spiritualised consciousness is withdrawn into the higher triad (Atma-Buddhi-Manas) and goes into Devachan. Although that Kamarupic form eventually disintegrates completely in Kama-loka, (the EGO is no longer there to serve as a focus of attraction), by the process of a gradual wafting or floating away upon the force lines o= f karmic links and attractions with, or to, other entities,,. When the Reincarnating Ego returns once more to 'earth' those strands are drawn back into its atmosphere or "magnetic" aura, so to speak, and become part and parcel of the building up of a new 'personality form'. We (as the EGO then become enwrapped in them. Our present circumstances and the present personality "is" the destiny we wove for ourselves in previous lives. ------------------------------------------------- PM SOME KEY QUESTIONS. AN UNDERLYING LAW? There are two question that arise, for me. The reader will no doubt have better ones. 1) When reflecting upon the nature of the kama-rupa and how it is formed after death, 'is there some deeper law in this process?'. Are we meant to be weaving something, but so far we just haven't been working with the righ= t material, we haven't lifted our sights above the realm of personal desire? Hence what is created, i.e. the Kama Rupa, is only fit for disintegration? ----------------------------------------------------- DTB=09 I would say you are right. Since MOTIVE and the moral factor are the primary criteria, what we see here is the division into two types of memory that survive the physical death. 1. Of selfishness and viciousness, ( and then allied to the astral form they for the "kama-rupa, which, bereft of Prana/Jiva and the EGO begins to disintegrate, and 2. Of Spiritual purity, because universal, impersonal, benevolent and generous -- in sum: MONADIC and brotherly in the true sense. (These go int= o the Devachanic state as the memory environment of the EGO, and as the seeds for its mediations there.=20=20 In the "Key," H P B says that only those go there to form (during and after the meditative state) the only record of the life we have just lived. All the rest (the base, selfish, vicious and kamic) disintegrates and scatters. None of it is "lost." Next incarnation all those are "summoned back" to their Egoic "parent." And when under Karma they return, they, as the skandhas that either help or hinder our progress then, become our current "tools." Val sys to tell you the Mayavirupa and the Kamarupa are like the alpha and omega -- polar opposites. -------------------------------------------- PM 2) Is there a different kind of desire (energy) with which we may weave a different kind of destiny or 'form'? Is there more to KAMA than just personal desire and gratification? Is that "all" that KAMA is? With regards the first question the passage in the SD (I, 169) above, suggests "yes". We have a choice about this destiny which we weave out of our own Being, like the spider weaves its web out of the substance of its own being. Later we will look at a different kind of woven creation. With regards to the second question, in the Secret Doctrine and other works of HPB we learn that there is a more profound kind of Desire - KAMA. For example: [Under KAMADEVA we find ] =20=20 "Kama is the first conscious, all embracing desire for universal good, love= , and for all that lives and feels, needs help and kindness; the first feelin= g of infinite tender compassion and mercy that arose in the Consciousness of the creative ONE FORCE, as soon as it came into life and being as a ray fro= m the ABSOLUTE. Says the Rig Veda, "Desire first arose in IT, which was the primal germ of mind, and which Sages, searching with their intellect, have discovered in their heart to be the bond which connects Entity with non-Entity", or Manas with pure Atma-Buddhi. There is no idea of sexual lov= e in the conception. Kama is pre-eminently the divine desire of creating happiness and love; and it is only ages later... that Kama became the power that gratifies desire on the animal plane." (T. Glossary 171) So, how might we bring these two ideas together.=20 Namely that the true nature of KAMA is the "all embracing desire for universal good. . . the first feeling of infinite tender compassion and mercy that arose in Consciousness of the creative ONE FORCE..."=20=20 And secondly, that the whole process of working with Kama (which *for us* ends up in the pretty seedy, if not terrible, creation of a Kama-Rupa) may be part of a larger design of 'weaving a body', one which is woven out of the incorruptible essence of our true Being rather than out of the corruptible essence of the astral. First of all, let's look again at KAMA. KAMA AND COMPASSION. It is interesting that HPB gives a definition of the real nature of KAMA, o= f DESIRE, as one which includes "infinite tender COMPASSION" (my caps), "the desire for universal good".=20=20=20 Are we really surprised that such a FORCE is the first thing to arise as a ray from the ABSOLUTE when manifestation begins? Perhaps this is why THE VOICE OF THE SILENCE states: " Compassion stands here as an abstract, impersonal law whose nature, being absolute Harmony, is thrown into confusion by discord, suffering and sin." (note 31, Glossary to Fragment Three) Below is the text which the above glossary note refers to. " There [on the path of the Arhat] Klesha is destroyed for ever, Tanha's roots torn out. But stay, Disciple . . . Yet, one word. Canst thou destroy divine COMPASSION? Compassion is no attribute. It is the LAW of LAWS -- eternal Harmony, Alaya's SELF; a shoreless universal essence, the light of everlasting Right, and fitness of all things, the law of love eternal.=20 The more thou dost become at one with it, thy being melted in its BEING, th= e more thy Soul unites with that which IS, the more thou wilt become COMPASSION ABSOLUTE (31)." [Voice, pp. 75-6] In the above we see the difference between KAMA, "the law of love eternal" or as put in the Glossary, "the desire for universal good", "infinite tender compassion" and 'Kama', that degraded aspect of Kama which we have turned into personal desire, the passion etc. This personalised and corrupted Kama is referred to as "Klesha" in "THE VOICE", that which is to be "destroyed for ever". The glossary note (29) refers to Klesha as the love of pleasure or of worldly enjoyment, evil or good. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DTB=09 That is the corruption of selfishness.=20=20 In the LIGHT OF ASIA, Book 5, (p. 103-6) the first "SIN" is=20 1. selfishness, ATTAVADA, this is followed by=20 2. DOUBT -- doubt of the spiritual nature and the HIGHER SELF within.=20=20 3. Third arises FAITH that binds reason to forms and traditions, that are ill explained.=20 And then, 4: Kama personal passion, etc... Follows=20 5 : HATE; and=20 6 is [Tanha] DESIRE TO PROLONG THIS LIFE INDEFINITELY;=20=20 7, follows, DESIRE FOR FAME is next; and, then=20 8. PRIDE, hubris and HAUGHTINESS.=20=20 9 is "SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS," and finally,=20 10,: IGNORANCE / FEAR. This speaks to the debasement of Kama when its purity is exaggerated and thus transformed from a list of virtues into their corresponding vices. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D PM THE WEB WE WEAVE. So, to return to our question, in what deeper more fundamental way is KAMA related to weaving our destiny? What is the Law that underlies our misuse of Kama resulting in, among other things, a Kama-rupa? Is there an incorruptible body what we may eventually learn to weave? HPB gives us a clue, once again in the VOICE OF THE SILENCE, when referring to the Nirmanakaya. This is the first of the three vestures of a Buddha, or Arhat who renounces Nirvana. "[The Nirmanakaya]... is that ethereal form which one would assume when leaving his physical he [the Arhat] would appear in his astral body -- having in addition all the knowledge of an Adept. The Bodhisattva develops it in himself as he proceeds on the Path. Having reached the goal and refused its fruition, he remains on Earth, as an Adept; and when he dies, instead of going into Nirvana, he remains in that glorious body he has wove= n for himself, invisible to uninitiated mankind, to watch over and protect it." (Glossary Note 34 to Fragment III) An important point here is that the Nirmanakaya (kaya meaning form, vesture= , vehicle) is a created body, but it is not just created at some point in the future when the individual becomes an Arhat (Adept). It is developed WITHI= N the Bodhisattva "as he proceeds on the Path." Perhaps, then, this is the other side of the destiny each of us might weave. The term Bodhisattva is a complex one as used in different places in HPB's writings. However, one thing we know about it is that it is the heart of the Mahayana teachings where the aim is not to attain liberation for oneself, but to work for the liberation of all beings. A Bodhisattva is such a being, but even before that individual reaches the stage of Adeptshi= p this vow to help all beings has been nurtured in his/her heart for many ages. We do not need to reach Nirvana and renounce it in order to help our fellow beings. Each of us can make an intention to work for the enlightenment of others any where along the path. Such is the Bodhisattva way. Might we say that such an intention and its subsequent action is also a means of putting ourselves in harmony with what HPB describes as the true nature of KAMA, namely: "Kama is the first conscious, all embracing desire for universal good, love= , and for all that lives and feels, needs help and kindness; the first feelin= g of infinite tender compassion and mercy that arose in the Consciousness of the creative ONE FORCE, as soon as it came into life and being as a ray fro= m the ABSOLUTE." The 'Nirmana-kaya' is the vesture/vehicle born out of compassion and the desire to help others. It is woven out of the true Being (Monad)of the Bodhisattva, just as the spider weaves its web out of its own substance. As we look into this we may see parallels with the process underlying our misuse of Kama (desire) and its subsequent formation after death of the corruptible Kama-rupa. Here is the other side of the coin: "... after the physical translation [i.e. death of the body] of such a sain= t or Bodhisattva, his astral principles cannot be subjected to a natural dissolution like those of any common mortal. They remain in our sphere and within human attraction and reach" [my note: they cannot because they are too pure] (BCW XIV 382-383) " The form [Nirmanakaya] is that of the adept or yogi who enters, or chooses, that Post mortem condition in preference to the Dharmakaya or absolute Nirvanic state. As a Nirm=E2nak=E2ya... the man leaves behind him = only his physical body, and retains every other =93principle=94 save the Kamic--= for he has crushed this out for ever from his nature, during life, and it can never resurrect in his post mortem state." (Theosophical Glossary, "Nirmanakaya") "Having reached the goal and refused its fruition, he remains on Earth, as an Adept; and when he dies, instead of going into Nirvana, he remains in that glorious body he has woven for himself, invisible to uninitiated mankind, to watch over and protect it." (The Voice of the Silence, see above) As a last word I would invite those interested to look back at the first paragraph in this post, the passage from the SD, and wonder if the Bodhisattva is putting him/herself in harmony with what HPB calls the "creative ONE FORCE" namely the true nature of KAMA, what connection does KARMA have with that KAMA, and with compassion, "the Law of Laws". regards, P M=20 'We do not =93require a passive mind=94 but on the contrary are seeking for those most active, which can put two and two together once that they are on the right scent.'=20=20 (Mahatma Letter No. 49) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DTB I agree with you fully. Great thought and writing =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ASTRAL INTOXICATION THERE is such a thing as being intoxicated in the course of an unwise pursuit of what we erroneously imagine is spirituality. In the Christian Bible it is very wisely directed to "prove all" and to hold only to that which is good; this advice is just as important to the student of occultism who thinks that he has separated himself from those "inferior" people engaged either in following a dogma or in tipping tables for messages from deceased relatives - or enemies - as it is to spiritists who believe in the "summerland" and "returning spirits." The placid surface of the sea of spirit is the only mirror in which can be caught undisturbed the reflections of spiritual things. When a student starts upon the path and begins to see spots of light flash out now and then, or balls of golden fire roll past him, it does not mean that he is beginning to see the real Self - pure spirit.=20 A moment of deepest peace or wonderful revealings given to the student, is not the awful moment when one is about to see his spiritual guide, much les= s his own soul. Nor are psychical splashes of blue flame, nor visions of things that afterwards come to pass, nor sights of small sections of the astral light with its wonderful photographs of past or future, nor the sudden ringing of distant fairy-like bells, any proof that you are cultivating spirituality.=20 These things, and still more curious things, will occur when you have passe= d a little distance on the way, but they are only the mere outposts of a new land which is itself wholly material, and only one remove from the plane of gross physical consciousness. The liability to be carried off and intoxicated by these phenomena is to be guarded against. We should watch, note and discriminate in all these cases; place them down for future reference, to be related to some law, or for comparison with other circumstances of a like sort.=20 The power that Nature has of deluding us is endless, and if we stop at thes= e matters she will let us go no further. It is not that any person or power i= n nature has declared that if we do so and so we must stop, but when one is carried off by what Boehme calls "God's wonders," the result is an intoxication that produces confusion of the intellect.=20 Were one, for instance, to regard every picture seen in the astral light as a spiritual experience, he might truly after a while brook no contradiction upon the subject, but that would be merely because he was drunk with this kind of wine.=20 While he proceeded with his indulgence and neglected his true progress, which is always dependent upon his purity of motive and conquest of his known or ascertain-able defects, nature went on accumulating the store of illusory appearances with which he satiated himself. It is certain that any student who devotes himself to these astral happenings will see them increase. But were our whole life devoted to and rewarded by an enormous succession of phenomena, it is also equally certain that the casting off of the body would be the end of all that sort of experience, without our having added really anything to our stock of true knowledge. The astral plane, which is the same as that of our psychic senses, is as full of strange sights and sounds as an untrodden South American forest, an= d has to be well understood before the student can stay there long without danger.=20 While we can overcome the dangers of a forest by the use of human inventions, whose entire object is the physical destruction of the noxious things encountered there, we have no such aids when treading the astral labyrinth. We may be physically brave and say that no fear can enter into us, but no untrained or merely curious seeker is able to say just what effect will result to his outer senses from the attack or influence encountered by the psychical senses. And the person who revolves selfishly around himself as a center is in greater danger of delusion than any one else, for he has not the assistance that comes from being united in thought with all other sincere seekers.=20 One may stand in a dark house where none of the objects can be distinguishe= d and quite plainly see all that is illuminated outside; in the same way we can see from out of the blackness of our own house our hearts - the objects now and then illuminated outside by the astral light; but we gain nothing. We must first dispel the inner darkness before trying to see into the darkness without; we must know ourselves before knowing things extraneous t= o ourselves. This is not the road that seems easiest to students. Most of them find it far pleasanter and, as they think, faster work, to look on all these outsid= e allurements, and to cultivate all psychic senses, to the exclusion of real spiritual work. The true road is plain and easy to find, it is so easy that very many would - be students miss it because they cannot believe it to be so simple. "The way lies through the heart"; Ask there and wander not; Knock loud, nor hesitate Because at first the sounds Reverberating, seem to mock thee. Nor, when the door swings wide, Revealing shadows black as night, Must thou recoil. Within, the Master's messengers Have waited patiently: That Master is Thyself! =20 W Q J PATH, October, 1887 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 2 =20 TRUE PROGRESS IS IT AIDED BY WATCHING THE ASTRAL LIGHT? =20 PERHAPS those who have engaged in discussions about whether it is more advisable to become acquainted with the Astral Plane and to see therein tha= n to study the metaphysics and ethics of theosophy, may be aided by the experience of a fellow student.=20 For several years I studied about and experimented on the Astral Light to the end that I might, if possible, develop the power to look therein and se= e those marvelous pictures of that place which tempt the observer. But although in some degrees success followed my efforts so far as seeing these strange things was concerned, I found no increase of knowledge as to the manner in which the pictures were made visible, nor as to the sources from which they arose. A great many facts were in my possession, but the more I accumulated the farther away from perception seemed the law governing them. I turned to a teacher and he said: "Beware of the illusions of matter." "But," said I, "is this matter into which I gaze?" "Yes; and of grosser sort than that which composes your body; full of illusions, swarming with beings inimical to progress, and crowded with the thoughts of all the wicked who have lived."=20 "How," replied I, "am I to know aught about it unless I investigate it?" "It will be time enough to do that when you shall have been equipped properly for the exploration. He who ventures into a strange country unprovided with needful supplies, without a compass and unfamiliar with the habits of the people, is in danger. Examine and see."=20 Left thus to myself, I sought those who had dabbled in the Astral Light, wh= o were accustomed to seeing the pictures therein every day, and asked them to explain. Not one had any theory, any philosophical basis. All were confused and at variance each with the other. Nearly all, too, were in hopeless ignorance as to other and vital questions.=20 None were self-contained or dispassionate; moved by contrary winds of desire, each one appeared abnormal; for, while in possession of the power t= o see or hear in the Astral Light, there were unregulated in all other departments of their being. Still more, they seemed to be in a degree intoxicated with the strangeness of the power, for it placed them in that respect above other persons, yet in practical affairs left them without any ability.=20 Examining more closely, I found that all these "seers" were but half-seers-and hardly even that. One could hear astral sounds but could not see astral sights; another saw pictures, but no sound or smell was there; still others saw symbols only, and each derided the special power of the other.=20 Turning even to the great Emanuel Swedenborg, I found a seer of wonderful power, but whose constitution made him see in the Astral world a series of pictures which were solely an extension of his own inherited beliefs. And although he had had a few visions of actual everyday affairs occurring at a distance, there were so few as only to be remarkable.=20 One danger warned against by the teacher was then plainly evident. It was the danger of becoming confused and clouded in mind by the recurrence of pictures which had no salutary effect so far as experience went. So again I sought the teacher and asked: "Has the Astral Light no power to teach, and, if not, why is it thus? And are there other dangers than what I have discovered?" "No power whatever has the astral plane, in itself, to teach you. It contains the impressions made by men in their ignorance and folly. Unable t= o arouse the true thoughts, they continue to infect that light with the virus of their unguided lives.=20 And you, or any other seer, looking therein will warp and distort all that you find there. It will present to you pictures that partake largely of you= r own constitutional habits, weaknesses, and peculiarities. Thus you only see a distorted or exaggerated copy of yourself. It will never teach you the reason of things, for it knows them not.=20 "But stranger dangers than any you have met are there when one goes further on.=20 The Dweller Of The Threshold is there, made up of all the evil that man has done. None can escape its approach, and he who is not prepared is in danger of death, of despair, or of moral ruin.=20 Devote yourself, therefore, to spiritual aspiration and to true devotion, which will be a means for you to learn the causes that operate in nature, how they work, and what each one works upon." I then devoted myself as he had directed, and discovered that a philosophical basis, once acquired, showed clearly how to arrive at dispassion and made exercise therein easy.=20 It even enables me to clear up the thousand doubts that assail those others who are peering into the Astral Light. They compelled the disciple to abjur= e all occult practices until such time as he had laid a sure foundation of logic, philosophy, and ethics; and only then was he permitted to go further in that strange country from which many an unprepared explorer has returned bereft of truth and sometimes despoiled of reason.=20 Further, I know that the Masters of the Theosophical Society have written these words:=20 "Let the Theosophical Society flourish through moral worth and philosophy, and give up the pursuit of phenomena."=20 Shall we be greater than They, and ignorantly set the pace upon the path that leads to ruin? BRYAN KINNAVAN PATH, July, 1890=20 =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Best wishes, Dallas =20 From dalval14@earthlink.net Wed Jan 18 06:28:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45129 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2006 14:28:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jan 2006 14:28:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.70) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2006 14:28:13 -0000 Received: from [216.175.69.13] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EzEFS-0004u3-1f; Wed, 18 Jan 2006 09:25:18 -0500 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 06:24:50 -0800 Message-ID: <00dc01c61c3a$f5da1970$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec797e450131256a59fc1fcf604a6951b7e5350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: [theosophia] Re: In a borrowed body is not the fact: X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=oA4vTK8ht5ap0YtIPXkF-HF57A9IR-liuf3ZfFCZK-dxlA X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/18/2006 6:00 AM 1/18/2006 5:27 AM Dear =93Bhikshuni=94 [jornaldebuddha] Forgive me asking? Are you a Buddhist Bhikshuni ?=20=20 ------------------------------------- If we turn to the Pr=E2timoksha S=FBtra and other religious tracts of the Buddhists, we read the ten following commandments: 1. Thou shalt not kill any living creature. 2. Thou shalt not steal. 3. Thou shalt not break thy vow of chastity. 4. Thou shalt not lie. 5. Thou shalt not betray the secrets of others. 6. Thou shalt not wish for the death of thy enemies. 7. Thou shalt not desire the wealth of others. 8. Thou shalt not pronounce injurious and foul words. 9. Thou shalt not indulge in luxury (sleep on soft beds or be lazy). 10. Thou shalt not accept gold or silver.*=09 I U II 164 ----------------------------------------------- HPB wrote concerning women adepts: THE FUTURE OCCULTIST A correspondent of the Indian Mirror, an influential daily paper at Calcutta, writing under the heading of =93Proper Education for our Ladies,= =94 says:=97 HPB=92s added comment] The above letter raises certain important questions. Some enquire how the world is to go on if all were to become occultists, one of the vital conditions of that order being celibacy.=20=20 Others say that the ancient Rishis married, quoting some of the names mentioned in the Hindu religious books; and argue therefrom that celibacy i= s not an essential condition for progress in practical occultism. ... The question of the marriage of the Rishis is one of such disputed points..= . a passage occurring in the article under the heading of =93Magicon,=94...on= e of the occultists is said to...be courting a virgin whose name was =93Sophia.= =94=20=20 Now, it is explained there that =93Sophia=94 is wisdom or the Buddhi=97the spiritual soul (our sixth principle). This principle is everywhere represented as a =93female,=94 because it is passive inasmuch as it is mere= ly the vehicle of the seventh principle.=20=20 This latter =97 which is called Atma when spoken of in connection with an individual and Purush when applied in its relation to the Universe=97is the active male, for it is the CENTRE OF ENERGY acting through and upon its female vehicle, the sixth principle.=20 The occultist, when he has identified himself thoroughly with his Atma, act= s upon the Buddhi, for, according to the laws of Cosmic Evolution, the Purush= a =97 the universal seventh principle =97 is perpetually acting upon and manifesting itself through Prakriti =97 the universal sixth principle.=20=20 Thus the MAHATMA, who has become one with his seventh principle =97 which i= s identical with Purusha, since there is no isolation in the spiritual monad is practically a creator, for he has identified himself with the evoluting and the manifesting energy of nature.=20=20 It was in this sense that the Rishis are said to have married. And the union of Siva and Sakti represents the same allegory. Jiva is the Logos, th= e Vach, manifested through the Prakriti; and the union of the two produces th= e phenomenal creation, for until the Son is born, the Father and the Mother are non-existent.=20=20 Now Prakriti being a female principle, it is fully manifested through a woman, although, properly speaking, the inner man is neither male, nor female. It is only the preponderance of either of the two principles (positive and negative) which determines the sex.=20=20 WOMEN ADEPTS Now, this preponderance is determined by the Law of Affinity; and hence in = a woman is manifested abnormally the occult power represented by Prakriti. = =20 She is moreover gifted with a wonderfully vivid imagination =97 stronger th= an man=92s. And as the phenomenal is the realization or rather the manifestat= ion of the IDEAL, which can be properly and strongly conceived only by a powerful IMAGINATION =97 a WOMAN-ADEPT can produce high occultists =97 a ra= ce of =93Buddhas and Christs,=94 born =93without sin.=94=20=20 The more and the sooner the animal sexual affinities are given up, the stronger and the sooner will be the manifestation of the higher occult powers which alone can produce the =93immaculate conception.=94 And this a= rt is practically taught to the occultists at a very high stage of initiation. = =20 The =93Adept,=94 whether the Sthula Sarira be male or female, is then able = to bring a new being into existence by the manipulation of cosmic forces. Anas=FBy=E2, a female adept of the ancient times, is thus said to have conceived immaculately Durvasas, Dattatreya and Chandra =97 the three disti= nct types of Adeptship.=20=20 Thus it will be seen that the marriage of the occultist (who is, as already explained, neither male nor female) is a =93holy union,=94 devoid of sin, i= n the same manner as Krishna=92s union with thousands of Gop=EEs. Sensual-minded= men have taken this fact up too literally; and, out of a wrong interpretation o= f the text, has arisen a sect which indulges in the most degrading practices. But, in fact, Krishna represents the seventh principle, while the Gop=EEs indicate the innumerable powers of that principle manifested through its =93vehicle.=94 Its union =93without sin,=94 or rather the action or manife= station of each of these powers through the =93female principle=94 gives rise to th= e phenomenal appearances.=20=20 In such a union the occultist is happy and =93without sin=94 for the =93conception=94 of his other-half =97 the female principle =97 is =93immac= ulate.=94=20=20 The very fact, that this stage pertains to one of the very highest initiations, shows that the time =97 when ordinary humanity, during the cou= rse of cosmic evolution, will, in this manner, be able to produce a race of =93Buddhas,=94 etc., born =93without sin=94 =97 is yet very, very far off = =97 perhaps attainable in the sixth or the seventh =93round.=94 But when once this possibility and the actuality of this fact is recognized, the course of living and education may be so moulded as to hasten the approach of that eventful day when on this earth will descend =93the Kingdom of Heaven.=94 [The Theosophist, Vol. V. No. 11 (59), August, 1884, pp. 263-264] =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =93Bhikshuni=94 wrote: 1 =93Upasikas are lay Buddhist females vowed only on the first eight Precepts= of Gautama Buddha. Bhikshunis are Buddhist Nuns fully vowed on the whole ten Precepts of Gautama Buddha Tathagata. Now, to the truth: what is "The Voice of Silence": It is a book which was NEVER written by H.P.B. It is a book whose true title is: THE BOOK OF THE GOLDEN PRECEPTS. It is a book which was read by H.P.Blavatsky, which was memorized by H.P.Blavatsky, which was translated into English by H.P.Blavatsky and which was published by H.P.Blavatsky without any reference on its cover as to its true AUTHORS AND ORIGIN. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DT What is the purpose of this declaration ?=20=20 HPB has disclosed all this ! The Mahatmas have declared the Buddha to be Their PATRON. Additionally they wrote concerning the : AUTHORSHIP OF SECRET DOCTRINE A good deal has been said about the writing of Isis Unveiled, and later of the Secret Doctrine, both by H. P. Blavatsky. By some process or power not known to the world, [she] was able to read books at a distance, as, for instance, in the Vatican at Rome and the British Museum.=20 The last is the fact. She lived in a small flat when writing the first book and had very few works on hand, all she had being of the ordinary common sort.=20 She herself very often told how she gained her information as to modern books. No secret was made of it, for those who were with her saw day after day that she could gaze with ease into the astral light and glean whatever she wanted. But in the early days she did not say precisely to the public that she was in fact helped in that work by the Masters, who gave from time to time certain facts she could not get otherwise.=20 The Secret Doctrine, however, makes no disguise of the real help, and she asserts, as also many of us believe, that the Masters had a hand in that great production.=20 The letters sent to Mr. Sinnett formed the ground for Esoteric Buddhism, as was intended, but as time went on it was seen that some more of the veil ha= d to be lifted and certain misconceptions cleared up; hence the Secret Doctrine was written, and mostly by the Masters themselves, except that she did the arranging of it. ... But it is now time to give out a certificate given when the Secret Doctrine was being written, a certificate signed by the Masters who have given out all that is new in our theosophical books... The first certificate runs thus: "I wonder if this note of mine is worthy of occupying a select spot with th= e documents reproduced, and which of the peculiarities of the "Blavatskian" style of writing it will be found to most resemble? The present is simply t= o satisfy the Doctor that "the more proof given the less believed." Let him take my advice and not make these two documents public. It is for his own satisfaction the undersigned is happy to assure him that the Secret Doctrine, when ready, will be the triple production of [here are the names of one of the Masters and of H.P.B.] and _______ most humble servant, [signed by the other.] On the back of this was the following, signed by the Master who is mentione= d in the above: "If this can be of any use or help to _____, though I doubt it, I, the humble undersigned Faquir, certify that the Secret Doctrine is dictated to [name of H.P.B.], partly by myself and partly by my brother ______. A year after this, certain doubts having arisen in the minds of individuals= , another letter from one of the signers of the foregoing was sent and reads as follows.=20 As the prophecy in it has come true, it is now the time to publish it for the benefit of those who know something of how to take and understand such letters. For the outside it will all be so much nonsense. "The certificate given last year saying the Secret Doctrine would be when finished the triple production of [H.P.B.'s name], ________, and myself was and is correct, although some have doubted not only the facts given in it but also the authenticity of the message in which it was contained. Copy this and also keep the copy of the aforesaid certificate.=20 You will find them both of use on the day when you shall, as will happen without your asking, receive from the hands of the very person to whom the certificate was given, the original for the purpose of allowing you to copy it; and then you can verify the correctness of this presently forwarded copy. And it may then be well to indicate to those wishing to know what portions in the Secret Doctrine have been copied by the pen of [H.P.B.'s name] into its pages, though without quotation marks, from my own manuscrip= t and perhaps from ______, though the last is more difficult from the rarity of his known writing and greater ignorance of his style. All this and more will be found necessary as time goes on, but for which you are well qualified to wait." ONE OF THE STAFF PATH, April, 1893 =20 ------------------------------------------------------------------- =93Let those of us who accept the statements of the Masters remember that t= hey have certified in writing that The Secret Doctrine is the triple production of those two great beings and H. P. Blavatsky. Such a certificate they have given of no other book.=20 Their certificate will not be accepted by outsiders nor by that small class of Theosophists who loudly proclaim they will accept nothing that does not accord with their reason ...;=20 W Q J Forum Ans. 68-9=20=20=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 2 "Bhikshuni" wrote: =93Tulku is a Buddhist Nun or Monk incarnating a higher Buddhist MONK. This= is Tulku. William Quan Judge was not Buddhist. [ Can this be proved ? DTB] Therefore, William Quan Judge was not lay Buddhist. Therefore, William Quan Judge was not Buddhist Monk. Therefore, William Quan Judge was not Tulku. H.P.Blavatsky was Tulku. H.P.Blavatsky was Buddhist. H.P.Blavatsky was an Upasika [a lay Buddhist female who performed the=20 eight vows, which include chastity]. ----------------------------------------------------- 3 "Bhikshuni" wrote: THERE WAS NEVER ANY NIRMANAKAYA IN W.Q.JUDGE. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DT Can this be proved ?=20=20=20 HPB (an Adept) was of a different opinion. She wrote: H. P. B. to Judge on a Nirmanakaya residing within him. =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Ostende, Oct. 3, 1886 "The trouble with you is that you do not know the great change that came to pass in you a few years ago. Others have occasionally their astrals changed and replaced by those of Adepts (as of Elementaries) and they influence the outer, and the higher man. With you, it is the NIRMANAKAYA not the 'astral' that is blended with your astral. Hence the dual nature and fighting." - HPB WQJ BIOGRAPHY, Eek & DE ZIRCOV, p. 19; B.C.W. Vol. VII, p. xxvii, 138; THEOS. FORUM (Pt. Loma), Aug. 15, 1932, p. 253; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D While I hesitate to observe that making the claim : "I am a "Bhikshuni" stands unsupported on its own publishing -- there is nothing to say: tha= t is a fact. Nor does it give the right to make criticisms in an ironic manner. Considering one of the vows taken at pansil: "Sangham saranam gachami ....= " no one may ironically or sarcastically criticize a brother without due and proper cause.=20 H P B adopted the designation "Upasika" as her Personality (that of Helena P. Blavatsky) was indeed a "student" of occultism -- a fact she stated any number of times. But who or what was it that used the body of that "Personality?"=20 As seen from the certificates above the Mahatmas held her in high esteem.=20 Best wishes, Dallas =20 -----Original Message----- From: jornaldebuddha Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 6:49 AM To:=20 Subject: : In a borrowed body is not the fact: From ibse03888@blueyonder.co.uk Wed Jan 18 11:11:56 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: ibse03888@blueyonder.co.uk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70465 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2006 19:11:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jan 2006 19:11:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-out4.blueyonder.co.uk) (195.188.213.7) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2006 19:11:53 -0000 Received: from your904q9zk0ar ([82.41.80.73]) by smtp-out4.blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 18 Jan 2006 18:55:16 +0000 Message-ID: <000801c61c60$90001340$49502952@your904q9zk0ar> To: References: <264.4272d37.30fde604@aol.com> <001601c61b86$35d2c190$49502952@your904q9zk0ar> <43CD56F1.2070806@sprynet.com> <001501c61bc4$371e2420$49502952@your904q9zk0ar> <43CDBB36.2010806@sprynet.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 18:54:08 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Return-Path: ibse03888@blueyonder.co.uk X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jan 2006 18:55:16.0359 (UTC) FILETIME=[B8728970:01C61C60] X-Originating-IP: 195.188.213.7 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Iain" Subject: Re: Theos-World Cool List of Facts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=182405197 Bart, Scots law and English law are different.Codifiying came much latter in the 17th and 18th Centuary, when hand scribing would have been more commonplace with the repeal of certain laws and statutes a lot of common law would then be incorporated. Scots Law is based on Roman Law whilst English law is based on the French System,All laws are contained in the Houses of Parliament books, published by W. Green and Co, London. Also the Council of Ministers Statutes of the Scottish Parliament,European Directives of the council of Ministers and European Parliament are published Elsewhere. your most 'umble servant, Iain ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bart Lidofsky" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 3:51 AM Subject: Re: Theos-World Cool List of Facts > Iain wrote: >> Bart, it would be an unwritten law from medieval times what is known as >> "Common Law"" which was regaurded as accepted practice,both in Scotland >> and >> England, as many people including the landed gentry could not write in >> those >> days then it would have been an Oral tradition. > > Hell, in Business Law 101 they taught us that Common Law is absolutely > written down. It is civil, not criminal law, and based on judicial > precedents, with records VERY carefully kept. > > Bart > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > From leonmaurer@aol.com Wed Jan 18 14:59:51 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 79329 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2006 22:59:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jan 2006 22:59:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m20.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.1) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2006 22:59:48 -0000 Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id o.79.545993f4 (57341); Wed, 18 Jan 2006 17:56:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <79.545993f4.310021b5@aol.com> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 17:56:53 EST MIME-Version: 1.0 To: undisclosed-recipients:; X-Mailer: Thunderbird - Mac OS X sub 310 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.1 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: leonmaurer@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mind and Brain] meaning and information X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972; y=jb8itOfOf9TAK6oRWHEufdO1PhpjEMpNuYlIgAg-ss-8tn8pUGk X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thought it might be helpful to see how theosophical thinking and reasoning,= =20 along with a knowledge of its metaphysical science, can contend with skepti= cal=20 existential materialists and reductive scientists... In a message dated 1/9/06 6:12:58 AM, gevans613@aol.com writes: > In a message dated 09/01/2006 06:17:26 GMT Standard Time,=20 > leonmaurer@aol.com writes: > =A0 > In a message dated 1/8/06 3:45:43 AM, glenswift@mindspring.com writes: > =A0 > (snip) > =A0 >=20 > (snip) =20 > Glen: > Every time someone talks about information or meaning being somewhere or= =20 > being transmitted somewhere or somehow, they are mistaken IMO. All that i= s=20 > happening (that they're describing) is the presence or movement of matter= and/or=20 > energy. > =A0 > Here's an example. Let's say I see words on a piece of paper. What am I= =20 > actually seeing? Dry ink on paper; that's what I'm seeing. It is only by = virtue=20 > of my recognizing and interpreting the shapes of the letters that _gives_= =20 > meaning to what I see. I give meaning to what I see! The ink on the paper= does=20 > not contain either meaning or information. > =A0 > Leon: > Also be nice if you could explain exactly how you recognize and interpre= t=20 > the meaning of the words and sentences that you see? It seems to me that = the=20 > information enabling you to do such things, is certainly encoded in those= =20 > words and sentences. Also, apparently, they would have to have some physi= cal=20 > means of getting from the paper to your individual center of perception a= nd=20 > discrimination. Where would that be, by the way? And, what would be the m= echanism=20 > of their transmission and transformation?=20 >=20 > Jud: The ability to recognise and extract the way in which the holism mus= t=20 > change the way that it exists [neuronally] is encoded in the brain meat -= not=20 > in the graphite particles on the page. In the same way it is the BRAIN wh= ich=20 > contains the information that the tree it sees is a tree - not the tree. >=20 [LM] The brain contains the encoded "information" of the optically detected= =20 images of the written words or the optical image of the tree, transmitted t= o=20 and through its neurological synapses from the retinas, solely as an=20 electromagnetic field transformation or its modulations. The brain "sees"= nothing --=20 since seeing or perceiving, as a capability of the mind and its zero-point= =20 center of consciousness, is a qualia that is experienced solely by that poi= nt of=20 individual "I AM" consciousness (which includes awareness, discernment,=20 discrimination, thought, understanding, will or intent, etc.)=20=20=20 So far science cannot explain, by reference to the neurological meat or=20 otherwise, what or where those properties or functions of consciousness are= , how=20 the individual self experiences them, or how the mind is bonded to the brai= n=20 meat. But, since they are there -- pictured in the mind and encoded in th= e=20 brain's em neurological field to be experienced and manipulated, changed, o= r=20 ignored -- they must, therefore, exist as objectively informative, albeit e= ncoded=20 images, to be eventually demodulated or decoded, differentiated, integrated= ,=20 and comprehended (as to their meaning) by the center of individual self=20 consciousness (referring to its memory or stored knowledge) whatever and wh= erever that=20 subjective experiential characteristic of the complex human organism is or= =20 may be located (i.e., transcendentally existent as an aspect and attribute = of=20 fundamental, or primal space that is beyond the metrics of our physical=20 space-time continuum).=20=20=20 The word "inform" by the way appears to be a compound of the words *in* and= =20 *form*. Therefore, the blueprint or encoded diagrams describing any=20 structural form -- whether pictured in the mind or communicated as words or= images on=20 screen or paper -- are necessarily "information" as and of itself.=20=20 Understanding the application or meaning of such information, then, must be= left entirely=20 to the consciously aware and willful thinker that discerns it ... NOT the=20 brain or its resultant em field that carries the encoded informative images= -- to=20 be ultimately transformed to its associated hyperspace mind field and from= =20 there to its zero-point center -- where it is decoded, experienced as quali= a,=20 and thought about, or differentiated and integrated by the individual=20 consciousness. > Glen: > People talk about information being carried by neurons, but that is=20 > incorrect also. What do we find inside neurons? Chemicals, molecules, ato= ms perhaps,=20 > and maybe even some free electrons. We give them names; we identify patte= rns=20 > of organization and activity; and we ascribe meaning to those things and= =20 > patterns. It is not information that is transmitted along an axon or acro= ss a=20 > synapse; just chemicals and electrons, and maybe what we perceive as=20 > electromagnetic waves or fields. But it is our interpretation of those th= ings which=20 > leads people to say that information is transmitted by neurons. > =A0 > I can explain this further if I've not made this sufficiently clear. Can= =20 > anyone find an error in my thinking? > =A0 > Cheers, Glen > =A0 > Jud: > Excellent Glen! I have been saying this on this list for a long time. > =A0 > Leon: > The error lies in the inability of such materialistic thinking to consid= er=20 > the actual nature of how those patterns of energy representing words on=20 > paper, auditory information, etc., are interpreted by our apparently sing= ular=20 > center of consciousness, that is also, apparently, non local, as well as = outside=20 > the realm of physical science to explain. > =A0 > Jud: > It isn't done that way - no consciousness exists. A conscious human exis= ts.=20 > NOTHING is outside the realm of physics to explain [eventually] to those = who=20 > wish to hear the correct explanation. The /energy/ material simply arrang= es=20 > itself in patterns that can be recalled, rearranged, and compared with th= e=20 > new patterns prompted by new neuronal configurations. There is nothing=20 > *mysterious* about it [although certain people would be happier if it rem= ains=20 > *mysterious.* >=20 [LM] That's no explanation at all of HOW the brain goes about its supposed= =20 functions of "recall", "rearrangement", and "comparison" with new patterns,= etc.=20 -- which, to make any scientific or philosophical sense, requires a full=20 explanation of how the brain decodes those patterns, and "experiences" the = real=20 images they represent. Unfortunately, without such an explanation, the=20 "mystery" still remains. :-)=20 However, I'm certain that when the true explanation finally arrives, it wil= l=20 not be "mysterious" or supernatural at all... But will be based on perfectl= y=20 logical, reasonable and natural coenergetic and sub quantal field phenomena= --=20 as fully described in my ABC theory, and partially (with respect to ignorin= g=20 the hard problem of consciousness) described in Superstring/M-brane and qua= ntum=20 field theories.=20=20=20 It seems, however, that you are still stuck in your limited, materialistic= =20 definition of "existence," and thus can't see the trees for the forest. :-)= =20 > =A0 > In other words; How does the information get from the transmitter to the= r > eceiver (i. e., from the object of perception to the perceiver)? > =A0 > =A0 > Jud: > Ask any TV engineer. The codes are carried by radio carrier waves as a=20 > series of signals, in a similar way that sound waves carry our voices in = normal=20 > conversation. >=20 [LM] I was not asking about the way the signals get from the camera to the= =20 picture tube, but how the holistic image on the retinas gets to the conscio= us=20 self that decodes, directly perceives and experiences, discerns, discrimina= tes,=20 differentiates, integrates, interprets, compares with prior knowledge -- an= d,=20 thereby, comprehends the "meaning" of it. Of course, the basic assumption= =20 behind such a question, is that there is no known or observable scientifica= lly=20 or technologically viable mechanisms in the brain that explains those=20 characteristics of human consciousness -- which, in my view, apparently exi= st as the=20 functions of a coadunate but not consubstantial field of human beness that = is=20 beyond (i.e., of a higher order or phase of frequency/energy) the observabl= e or=20 measurable physical and electrical fields of the brain, including the=20 observability of our entire metric space-time continuum -- such as the "sin= gularity"=20 in the center of a black hole or within its surrounding event barrier. = =20 It's interesting that this reasonable explanation of the invisible,=20 immeasurable, and otherwise unobservable coadunate but not consubstantial h= yperspace=20 fields of consciousness -- being subject to both electrical and gravitation= al=20 forces -- also explains the missing mass of the universe that quantum=20 cosmologists unknowingly call "dark matter," "strange attractors," or add t= o their=20 inaccurate equations as "gravitational constants," etc. Perhaps, someday i= n the=20 not to distant future, they will come to understand how far off the mark th= ey=20 were in describing the true nature of the universe and its fundamental dich= otomy=20 (separation in different aspects of fundamental space, yet mutual=20 interdependence) between subjective consciousness (awareness, ideation, wil= l) and=20 objective matter (energy, substance, mass).=20=20=20 This relational understanding, of course, completely undermines the basis o= f=20 all skepticism directed at those who intuitively grasp (although, often=20 mystically or supernaturally misinterpret) the true transcendental (in inti= mate=20 conjunction with the immanent) nature of universal reality -- or, as David = Bohm=20 might put it, the separation and conjunction of the implicate and explicate= =20 orders as a holistic unity. Unfortunately, those blind believers, relying s= olely=20 on their intuition or direct experience (which could be debunked as=20 hallucinations), can't defend their ideas against the counter arguments of = the skeptics. In any event, how can you say that the sound waves that carry our voice=20 modulations do not contain all the information delivered from one to anothe= r in our=20 conversation -- subject to later (after 40 microsecond delay by the brain)= =20 interpretation by our mind (in conjunction with its memory and the=20 awareness-will of its zero-point) as to meaning and understanding? Since = when can we=20 conflate explanatory "information" with meaning or interpretation? Isn't = it=20 apparent that information is intermediary between conceptual or ideational= =20 expression and comprehensible or tangible impression -- i.e., that which is= contained=20 in the literal or figurative explanation or "blueprint," between the ideati= on=20 of a structure and the structure itself? Apparently, information can be=20 imparted to us... But, our understanding of its meaning, must be left to ou= r=20 conscious interpretation based on our individual intelligence, knowledge, a= nd=20 wisdom. All intangible, yet nevertheless, existent in our minds and memorie= s.=20 > What carries that information? > =A0 > Jud: > Radio waves carry the signals,but it is NOT *information* It only become= s=20 > meaningful and informative to the informed recipient. In the same way the= =20 > reflected photons from a tree only become meaningful when the tree is see= n by=20 > human eyes >=20 [LM] Nevertheless, for anything expressed, either directly as reflected=20 light, or indirectly as an analog such as a radio wave, brain wave, etc. --= to=20 become informative (i.e., understood), it must contain valid "information" = that is=20 transmitted between the informer and the informed -- through whatever means= =20 applied -- whether directly between the object of perception and the percei= ver,=20 or indirectly through modulation and demodulation between eye and brain,=20 brain and mind, mind and awareness, etc. I can't imagine why a viewer of = a=20 television show or movie needs prior information to comprehend the meaning = of what=20 he sees and hears, other than a knowledge of language and a memory of prior= =20 experiences of seeing the pictured things and beings in real life. The=20 information the picture and soundtrack contains either informs him or it do= esn't,=20 depending on his prior knowledge and ability to discern, discriminate, comp= are,=20 etc.=20 > =A0 > How do you explain the transmission and transformation or encoding of th= e=20 > objective information (e.g., color, shape, form, size, distance, etc.) fr= om=20 > the image on the retina to the image in the mind? And, after that, how do= you=20 > explain the interpretation of that image, as well as its relationship to= =20 > similar images, identically encoded in memory -- so as to determine its m= eaning or=20 > gain an understanding of what it actually is or represents? > =A0 > Jud: > There is no *information* The eye is an exterior component of the brain = -=20 > it changes the configuration of the way it exists in the same way as the = rest=20 > of the brain as it extrapolates the incoming photons as they hit and=20 > penetrate its surface. The way the eye changes is picked up by the neuron= al=20 > brain-meat which compares the way the eye is now existing which copies of= previous=20 > ways in which it existed and BINGO! >=20 [LM] I still question what is it that enables the brain-meat to "compare" t= he=20 way the eyes previously existed with the way they respond to current=20 information impressed on their retinas? How does the meat experience (fee= l, see,=20 know) the difference? Where is the memory (which also must exist) of that= =20 previous existence of the eyes stored? How is it retrieved and subsequent= ly=20 interpreted by the brain, mind or consciousness? Where is that mind or=20 consciousness located? How are they interconnected? There are so many una= nswered=20 questions that belie your simplistic explanation -- which is no information= at all=20 -- that I could go on forever.:-) BTW, if the eye changes, then doesn't=20 whatever causes that change exist in various degrees of (similarly existing= )=20 modulations of the particular information contained in the photons? Seems= to me=20 that there are existence's within existence's, and that some of them are=20 intangible or transcendental, yet still capable of determining phenomenal c= hanges in=20 tangible existence's.=20=20=20 > =A0 > Could we not say, then -- when the electromagnetic radiation from a TV=20 > antenna carries an FM signal (of a lecture for example) and transmits it = from the=20 > station to our receiver for further processing and transformation into th= e=20 > moving picture and sound we directly (or indirectly from another POV)=20 > experience -- that such transfer of imagery, on both audio and visual lev= els, is of=20 > the same order as the electrochemical modulation of a sense "image" (sigh= t or=20 > sound) carried by a neuron chain and transmitted to the brain for further= =20 > processing, transformation, demodulation, detection, discernment, etc.? > =A0 > Jud: > At first glance I agree with you - Yes. > =A0 > The same thing may apply when we consider words on paper that first have= to=20 > be detected and electrochemically transformed on the retina, then=20 > transmitted as symbols to the brain, so as to be further transformed into= the images=20 > perceived by our consciousness or awareness, and further discriminated as= to=20 > their meaning, through reference to our knowledge stored in our memory. > =A0 > If such is the actual case, then it seems obvious to me that the modulat= ed=20 > signal of the sense image. > =A0 > Jud: > There are no existing=A0*sense images* only the sensing sensor. >=20 [LM] No? Then, what is it that modulates the changes in the sensors (rods= ,=20 cones, etc.) that enables them to transfer that portion of the "image" they= =20 sense to the brain's electrochemical neural network -- so as to be reassemb= led=20 and transformed back to a composite virtual image replica of the original=20 object that is perceived (experienced) by the singular center of conscious= =20 awareness? Where does that inner light we ultimately experience as a "sen= se image"=20 come from? In your world of existential materialism, how can it exist if= =20 there are no photon transmitters or receptors in the brain's meat to receiv= e and=20 experience them as an assembled virtual image after their converted signals= =20 leave the retina? Or, are you caught in the trap of naive realism?=20 > =A0 > =A0 > =A0... carried by the neuron chain must be the encoded basis of the fina= l=20 > information (if not the information itself) that is directly experienced = and=20 > interpreted into meaningful images by our individual consciousness -- wit= h=20 > direct reference to our short and long term memory banks. > =A0 > =A0 > Jud: > If you wish to call the newly changed configurational condition of the=20 > brain's meaty-bits *information* you are free to do so. > =A0 > In my view, then, it is also obvious that the consciousness (considered = as=20 > awareness, discrimination, will, etc.) is entirely separate from the neur= al=20 > mechanisms that transmits and transforms the modulated image information= =20 > itself. > =A0 > =A0 > Jud: > There is no: *consciousness, awareness, discrimination, knowingness,=20 > sentience, cognisance etc. There exists only he or she who is conscious, = aware,=20 > discriminatory, knowing, sentient, cognisive etc. >=20 [LM] Nit picking nonsense -- in the face of human capabilities of their=20 consciousness that exists, at least for the purpose of serious (as well as = farcical=20 :-) discussion, as ideas in the field of their minds and thoughts. To=20 paraphrase Descartes... I am conscious of my thoughts, therefore I exist, a= s does=20 my thinking, knowing, cognition, sentience, awareness, discernment,=20 discrimination, etc.=20 > =A0 > If that is so, then the only practical way such information can be store= d=20 > and integrated with other memories, is as holographic wave interference=20 > patterns on the surface of an electromagnetic field (or fields) that are = of a=20 > higher order than the intermediate electromagnetic field of the brain (wh= ere the=20 > intermediate holographic imagery must first be modulated after being proc= essed=20 > by its neurology). This material stage, then, must be followed by further= =20 > transformation and processing on a transcendent level of intermediate (be= tween=20 > objective physical matter and subjective consciousness) hyperspace (*Astr= o=20 > biological coenergetic*) fields consisting of higher orders of electromag= netic=20 > energy. > =A0 > Jud: > No, no, no, no. That's utter fantasy I am afraid. >=20 [LM] I could just as well say that in reference to your unfounded denials o= f=20 what I think actually exists in both physical and transcendental reality --= =20 based on your mistaken belief that nothing exists other than tangible and=20 measurable matter -- which mysteriously, without any logical or reasonable= =20 explanation, exhibits all the characteristics of consciousness and cognitio= n.=20=20 > =A0 > *-* http://www.tellworld.com/Astro.Biological.Coenergetics/ > =A0 > In addition, the meaning attributed to that information would depend on = the=20 > interpretation of a singular zero-point of consciousness that is capable = of=20 > projecting a coherent energy wave that reconstructs the holographic=20 > information, and by reflection, detects and observes such an image and ca= n attribute=20 > meaning by direct reference to and comparison with its surrounding coadun= ate=20 > but not consubstantial higher order memory fields -- similarly detected a= nd=20 > decoded. > =A0 > This implies that there is a "third eye" and "third ear" located at the= =20 > zero-point center of the overall modulated brain field directly behind th= e eyes=20 > and between the ears to receive, demodulate and discern the visual and=20 > auditory "information" carried, transmitted and transformed as holographi= c=20 > interference patterned imagery by the brains neural system. > =A0 > Of course, to thoroughly understand the above aspect of my view of=20 > "information theory" and the mechanisms of perception, discrimination, di= scernment,=20 > understanding, intent, etc., you will have to acknowledge that consciousn= ess=20 > is the attribute of the zero-point of "absolute (or eternally empty) spac= e"=20 > that is at the origin of every universal field of matter-energy. And, tha= t this=20 > non-local and immeasurable point is outside of all metric time and=20 > dimensional space. In addition, it should be understood that all "informa= tion"=20 > --whether sensory, constructive (e.g., DNA-RNA encoding), imaginative, dr= eam=20 > imagery, etc.) is encoded in the wave form patterns of the coadunate but = not=20 > consubstantial fields of consciousness surrounding the zero-point at the = center of=20 > every material form -- from the quantum quark, through a neuron and brain= , to=20 > a quasar, and everything in between and beyond... > =A0 > And, further, you'll have to realize that the brain meat can't think,=20 > doesn't know anything, and that the mind field and its related zero-point= that=20 > does, are entities in their own right and realm. =A0 > Jud: > Nature is very economic frugal and thrifty. If brain-meat was not requir= ed=20 > there would be no brain-meat and people wouldn't have the chore of carryi= ng=20 > an 8 lb ball of meat and bone around all day. ;-) I am a afraid your=20 > zero-points of "absolute (or eternally empty) space" is a lot of interest= ing fiction. >=20 [LM] Not when we consider that the brain meat is necessary as a malleable=20 neural network of an electromagnetic nature -- to act as an intermediary=20 transformer and transponder between the external world, the physical body a= nd its=20 muscles and organs, etc., and the coadunate but not consubstantial (transce= ndent)=20 fields of mind and memory and their linkage to our individual, non local=20 zero-points of consciousness, awareness, will, etc. ... All of which must e= xist as=20 a gestalt within an absolutely empty primal space that is, was, and always= =20 will be -- forever unchangeable, infinitely divisible and able to contain=20 everything else in this cosmos -- not to mention myriad's of other universe= s made=20 possible by the infinite spin momentum or "spinergy" on an infinite number = of=20 axes of the zero-point singularity of absolute or pre-cosmic space.=20=20=20 A fantasy, of course, in the view of a materialist; But, an actuality to th= e=20 those who can experience it as a reality in their deepest meditative=20 consciousness, and can logically follow the winding path of its multidimens= ional=20 fractalization -- from the all encompassing subtlest field surrounding this= =20 universe, down to the singular spinning point source of its origination, an= d vice=20 versa -- to meet in the middle at the exact time, place and condition we al= l are=20 now.=20=20=20 Too, bad that you are so blinded by your unfounded belief that all we each= =20 are is chunks of matter in the form of meat which can perform all those mag= ical=20 processes of consciousness -- that you can't join us and see the beauty of = how=20 the conglomerate of tangible and non tangible transcendent "existence's"=20 interrelate to make this whole world work as it does. ;-) Best wishes, Leon > =A0 > Best Wishes, > =A0 > Jud >=20 >=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Wed Jan 18 20:26:24 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54033 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2006 04:26:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2006 04:26:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52104.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.107) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2006 04:26:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 97834 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Jan 2006 04:25:45 -0000 Message-ID: <20060119042545.97832.qmail@web52104.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [211.28.165.96] by web52104.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 18 Jan 2006 20:25:45 PST Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 20:25:45 -0800 (PST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <296.3def466.30fc872d@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.107 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Re: Re: Science vs. Theosophy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=UFI_NBRd0GUrYhqnILnXDP2nsUA4k7y5M5QfkwDSjjYtq-Uiug X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Lenny Sitting on my back verandah having coffee this morning, I contemplated the = attributes/qualities/makeup of Parabrahma which led me to Parabrahma - the eternal, "dwelling alone in chaos" completely self suffici= ent, instinctively desires self conscious existence. This self conscious = existence takes the form of Brahma - a creative emanation of Parabrahma, " = Perceiving such a dismal state of things, Brahma solioquizes in consternati= on: "Who am I" "Whence came I?" Then he hears a voice: "Direct your prayer= to Bhavavant - the Eternal, known, also, as Parabrahma." Brahma, rising f= rom his natatory position, seats himself upon the lotus in an attitude of c= ontemplation, and reflects upon the Eternal, who, pleased with this evidenc= e of piety, disperses the primeval darkness and opens his understanding. "= After this Brahma issues from the universal egg - (infinite chaos) as light= , for his understanding is now opened, and he sets himself to work; he move= s on the eternal waters, with the spirit of God within himself; in his capa= city of mover of the waters he is Narayana." Isis P91 Is this the Divine Trinity - Parabrahma (Unconscious chaos) - Brahma (subco= nscious chaos) and Narayana?( made up of unconscious,sub consciousness and = and self conscious energy). I am not using unconscious in a psychlogical se= nse but in the sense of a consciousness unknown to us. This expanding 'unconscious'/subconscious duality (Parabrahma/Brahma) still= produced a "dismal state of things" until Narayana is eminated from Brahma= .=20=20 Getting to my point, Parabrahma as Divine Instinct, Divine Will, Divine Awa= reness, in its eternal condition of chaos, must have DESIRED self conscious= ness or self expression, of itself, from within. Its coadunate but not con= substantial descending field of consciousness. =20 This suggests to me that Divine Instinct or Desire, precedes Will and Aware= ness?=20=20 Could not find the passage in The Secret Doctrine you referred to. Please = excuse my clumsy wording. Regards Cass leonmaurer@aol.com wrote: Hi Cass, Thanks for your quote and perceptive/provocative question -- enabling me to= =20 clarify these theosophically and scientifically consistent ideas a bit furt= her. As I see it, "awareness" (root of perception) and "will" (empowerment of=20 desire, intent, and subsequent action) are the fundamental functions of the= =20 zero-point of universal origin -- which is the rootless root and source of= =20 empowerment of all fields of consciousness that emanate and fractally invol= ve from its=20 encircling angular momentum or "spinergy." This "G-force," which also=20 includes the Akasha or eternal universal memory, is the root of all coaduna= te but=20 not consubstantial descending fields of consciousness -- the lowest and mos= t=20 dense of which is our physical matter-energy space-time continuum. Since this zero-point is also the foundation and center of all beings and=20 their seven fold natures (analogous to the fractally involved universal fie= lds=20 described in the ABC model) -- these potential functions are all pervasive= =20 within all forms throughout the universe.=20=20=20 On our physical plane, in the lower forms of inert matter, they are simply= =20 dormant potentialities. But in the living or organic beings, they become= =20 expressed first, in the lower forms as "reflexive" responses to their envir= onment,=20 or as "instincts" in the intermediate forms (vegetable kingdom)... Progress= ing=20 later, in the higher forms (animal kingdom) as inbred instincts that includ= es=20 perceptive awareness and reactive will... Until it finally reaches the=20 highest state of self consciousness (perceptive awareness, discernment,=20 discrimination, recollection, recall, imagination, differentiation, integra= tion, decision,=20 free will, etc.) that we experience as human beings.=20=20=20 All of this was initially explained by HPB in Isis Unveiled, as you quoted.= ..=20 And later, more fully expanded in the Secret Doctrine.=20 Warm regards, Lenny=20 In a message dated 1/14/06 1:38:25 AM, silva_cass@yahoo.com writes: > Hello Leon > Read this in Isis Unveiled P425, "Instinct, as a divine spark, lurks in t= he=20 > unconscious nerve-centre of the ascidian mollusk, and manifests itself at= the=20 > first stage of action of its nervous system as what the physiologist term= s=20 > the reflex action.=EF=BF=BD It exists in the lowest classes of the acepha= lous animals=20 > as well as in those that have distinct heads; it grows and develops accor= ding=20 > to the law of the double evolution, physically and spiritually; and enter= ing=20 > upon its conscious stage of development and progress in the cephalous=20 > species already endowed with a sensorium and symetrically-arranged gangli= a, this=20 > reflex action, whether men of science term it automatic, as in the lowest= =20 > species, or instinctive, as in the more complex organisms which act under= the=20 > guidance of the sensorium and the stimulus originating in distinct sensat= ion, is=20 > still one and the same thing.=EF=BF=BD It is the divine instinct in its c= easeless=20 > progress of development. >=20 > Is what you term "awareness and will" is this instinct? >=20 > Cass >=20 > Cass >=20 > leonmaurer@aol.com wrote: Dear Christine, >=20 > I thought the basis of the disagreement was fully explained when I said t= hat > the subjective aspects of thought attributed to the brain by scientists, > actually belonged to the zero-point(s) of "absolute" space along with the= =20 > mind that > exist(s) beyond all "metric" space, time, (and brain meat, so to speak. := -) >=20 > My basic premise, in accord with HPB's outline of the Secret Doctrine, is > that the brain cannot "think" -- as physicalist/materialist scientists=20 > presume -- > but can only process the sensory images that come up in our thoughts guid= ed > by the awareness and will of our consciousness, and carried as holographi= c=20 > wave > interference patterns in the mind (thought, reason, intuition, memory, et= c.) > -- that, as "coadunate but not consubstantial" (i.e., multidimensional > "hyperspace") fields, also exist beyond the physical properties of the=20 > brain-body and > its neural system.=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD >=20 > Thus, the brain is nothing more than a highly complex and malleable > transponding/transforming electrochemical control system between the=20 > physical senses, > the body's muscular system, and the mind (which is directly accessed by i= ts > zero-point center of consciousness, as well in inductive resonance with t= he > sensory image modulations carried by the brain's electromagnetic field).= =EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=20 > Thus > sensory images are transformed and inductively mapped from the brain fiel= d=20 > into > mind-memory field images, and vice versa.=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD This enables = the consciousness=20 > to > be in direct control of the positions of the body with relation to the ou= ter > world.=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD Such conscious control enables a baseball player= to single handedly > catch a high fly ball on the run, and a skilled fine artist to place her= =20 > brush > exactly on a point of an image on the canvas in exact correspondence with= =20 > that > point of the model she sees, at the moment of a single glance, in her=20 > mind.=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD > These are amazing feats that only a remote single pointed awareness and w= ill > could achieve, in combination with a mappable mind field and a malleable = and > trainable neural network coupled with its elctromagnetic brain wave field= .=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD > Incidentally, this malleability of the neural network implies that each=20 > neuron is > also conscious to a limited degree -- as are all the other cells in our=20 > bodies > that respond to their signals. >=20 > In this view, we assume that the other aspects of our human awareness and > thought, such as discernment, discrimination, comprehension, decision,=20 > choice, > self consciousness, etc., are also properties of the zero-points of > consciousness or higher Self that is centered in our Spiritual Atma and=20 > Buddhi-Manas > fields.=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD (Of course, all this can be influenced by our l= ower self, whose > zero-points of consciousness are centered in our animal-like Astral=20 > Kama-Manas fields.) > =EF=BF=BD For a symbolic view of how these fields involve and relate to e= ach other, > see diagrams at: > http://users.aol.com/uniwldarts/uniworld.artisans.guild/chakrafield.html, > http://users.aol.com/uniwldarts/uniworld.artisans.guild/manfields.ht > ml#anchor1749200 > http://users.aol.com/leonmaurer/TaiChiFldDiag-figure-2.gif > http://users.aol.com/leonmaurer/Chakrafielddiag-fig.col.jpg >=20 > Hope this clarifies these ideas a bit further. >=20 > Best regards, >=20 > Lenny >=20 > In a message dated 1/11/06 1:12:24 PM, cmmullee@hotmail.com writes: >=20 >=20 > > January 10, 2006 > > > > Dear Leon: > > > > In reply to your e-mail of January 9, 2006, concerning a counter argume= nt > > refuting a scientist claiming the "brain thinks," the question arises > > whether this opinion would be better served if further explanation was= =20 > given > > explaining the basis for the disagreement.=EF=BF=BD=C5=A8 In other word= s, is your=20 > opinion > > based on an idea that the brain thinks independently of the rest of the > > anatomy?=EF=BF=BD=C5=A8 In what context are you basing your opinion? > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Christine > > > > > > >From: LeonMaurer@aol.com > > >Reply-To: study@blavatsky.net > > >To: study@blavatsky.net > > >Subject: [bn-study] Re: Science vs. Theosophy > > >Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 18:59:33 EST > > > > > >Just an added observation I once posted on the Journal of Consciousnes= s=20 > Study > > >online forum -- in a similar mode of counter argument refuting a=20 > scientist > > >claiming the "brain thinks. My argument was never logically,=20 > scientifically or > > >even philosophically refuted. (Although one reputed quantum physicis= t=20 > said > > >I was "barking up a tree. The Quantum-Mind forum, on the other hand, > > >simply refused to post it. :-) > > >----------------- > > > > > >"Contrary to the unfounded, hence, "religious" belief of most reductiv= e > > >scientists of a materialist bent; The Brain does NOT "think," "feel,"= =20 > "smell," > > >"taste," "hear," "recall," "remember," or "imagine"... Since, those ar= e=20 > the > > >functions of the zero-points of consciousness (awareness-will) that li= nks > > >directly to the mind and memory -- which exists as separate fields of > > >energies enfolded within the apparently empty space between the > > >hyperspace "particles," and outside of all metric time and space -- ye= t > > >interconnected inductively with the electromagnetic fields of the brai= n > > > and all other cellular structures of the body through their individua= l > > >hyperspace fields. This interconnection allows us to place our bodies > > >at any desired location within the outer world field -- enabling a > > >baseball to be caught on the fly, and an artist to place the point > > >of the brush on the exact point on the canvas corresponding to the > > >model and the painting pictured in the mind. > > > > > >All such fields are funda-mentally electrical in nature, and obey all = its > > >laws of harmony, cycles, symmetry and conservation of both matter and > > >energy -- although their vectorial constants are different in value > > >depending on their mfrequency energy phase order. > > > > > >It's these fields that carry all the information or contents of=20 > consciousness > > >-- as encoded holographic interference patterns (modulated as waves on= =20 > > >the surfaces or "membranes" of the fields) -- that are capable of bein= g > > >transformedfrom one hyperspace field level to another by inductive > > >resonance, e.g., strike a "string" or "note" in one field, and the=20 > vibration > > >resonates at the same equivalent pitch or note in adjacent higher orde= red > > >frequency-energy spectrum phase fields, as they cascade down to the ze= ro- > > >point of their origination. Thus, no experiential information, in the= =20 > form of=20 > > >wave vibrational patterns of energy, can ever be lost. > > > > > >The images of consciousness on the surface of the highest=20 > frequency-energy > > >phase order field is capable of being reconstructed and detected=20 > reflectively, > > >by a single coherent ray of corresponding frequency energy projected f= rom > > >any non local zero-point of consciousness. The brain is simply a=20 > transducer, > > >transponder, and controller functioning as the linkage between the=20 > various > > >channels of sensory input and the ubiquitous zero-points of consciousn= ess > > >throughout the overall field of the human organism." > > > > > >Best wishes, > > > > > >Lenny > > > >=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20 =09=09 --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos =96 Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover Photo Books. You design it and we=92ll bind it! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From leonmaurer@aol.com Wed Jan 18 21:18:07 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46428 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2006 05:18:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2006 05:18:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m26.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.7) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2006 05:18:04 -0000 Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.80.36bf027b (4418) for ; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 00:04:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <80.36bf027b.310077e4@aol.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 00:04:36 EST To: MindBrain@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Thunderbird - Mac OS X sub 310 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.7 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: leonmaurer@aol.com Subject: truth -- Re: Cool List of Facts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972; y=XSKWC8WQnWb6hNuVJ39KgKIekMPf0m_I-rBX2YXF_QORj7LpcjY X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Golf History FAQ: Where Did the Word "Golf" Come From? > From Brent Kelley, > Your Guide to Golf. > FREE Newsletter. Sign Up Now! > Does it Stand for "Gentlemen Only, Ladies Forbidden"? > Did the word "golf" originate as an acronym for "gentlemen only, ladies > forbidden"? That's a common old wives' tale. Or, in this case, more likely an > old husband's tale. > No, "golf" is not an acronym for "gentlemen only, ladies forbidden." If > you've ever heard that, forget it immediately. Better yet, find the person who > told you and let them know it's not true. > Like most modern words, the word "golf" derives from older languages and > dialects. In this case, the languages in question are medieval Dutch and old > Scots. > The medieval Dutch word "kolf" or "kolve" meant "club." It is believed that > word passed to the Scots, whose old Scots dialect transformed the word into > "golve," "gowl" or "gouf." > By the 16th Century, the word "golf" had emerged. > Sources: British Golf Museum, USGA Library Back to Golf History FAQ > Homepage > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From eletzerich@yahoo.com Thu Jan 19 02:37:17 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: eletzerich@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9967 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2006 10:37:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2006 10:37:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.40) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2006 10:37:16 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jan 2006 10:34:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jan 2006 10:34:29 -0000 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 10:34:27 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <005601c619c7$04f1ce60$0a0110ac@DALLAS> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.40 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 83.171.216.254 From: "Erica Letzerich" Subject: Re: Spam X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=24163419; y=pinmCT3QggAwoIbo25GcQUg-0IsRCzDXNzUHQh5ggoPlPTL_3A X-Yahoo-Profile: eletzerich Dear friends, Somebody is using the e-mail of the Zambia section of the TS. I have=20 received in the e-mail of the T.S. in Greece a bombing of e-mails=20 from: ronaksampat@hotmail.com I checked on the internet and this e-mail is from: Africa, East & Central Mr. J.L. Sampat P.O. Box 20428, Kitwe,Zambia e-mail: ronaksampat@hotmail.com Website: http://panafrican-theos.org Section formed 1947 magazine: The Theosophical Light=20 Probably somebody broke in the e-mail of the Africa and East Central=20 Panafrican T.S. and is using it to send e-mails with virus and about=20 sex etc. If anyone has contact with the above section in Zambia would be=20 interesting to communicate them about what is happening. Best wishes, Erica From dalval14@earthlink.net Thu Jan 19 02:48:45 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9069 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2006 10:48:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2006 10:48:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.70) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2006 10:48:14 -0000 Received: from [216.175.69.13] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EzXIr-0008QW-1I; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 05:46:05 -0500 To: "AAA-Dal" Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 02:45:26 -0800 Message-ID: <011101c61ce5$7e745700$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <2a7006300601182356o2b8a8ed9ya49b940c56295e41@mail.gmail.com> X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79942fa3396f18a32b835fe836d0c37602350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: The Om of Physics X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=PFS75XrCcZK4pgRNUXZ69SEcCiMPQhGdfxA9aWkx8yz1Zg X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable UNIVERSE IN A SINGLE ATOM D Lama .DOC =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 NEW BOOK=20=20=20=20 =20 Dalai Lama -- THE UNIVERSE IN A SINGLE ATOM, =20 =20 =20 Essay: THE OM OF PHYSICS =20 =20 The Dalai Lama =20 [Ed. -- The Dalai Lama is the head of state and spiritual leader of the Tibetan people. This essay is taken from his new book, THE UNIVERSE IN A SINGLE ATOM, published by Little, Brown. $ 24.95. Copyright 2006.] =20 =20 ONE of the most important philosophical insights in Buddhism comes from what is known as the theory of emptiness. At its heart is the deep recognition that there is a fundamental disparity between the way we perceive the world, including our own existence in it, and the way things actually are. In our day-to-day experience, we tend to relate to the world and to ourselves as if these entities possess self-enclosed, definable, discrete and enduring reality. For instance, if we examine our own conception of selfh ood, we will find that we tend to believe in the presence of an essential core to our being, which characterises our individuality and identity as a discrete ego, independent of the physical and mental elements that constitute our existence. The philosophy of emptiness reveals that this is not only a fundamental error but also the basis for attachment, clinging and the development of our numerous prejudices. =20 According to the theory of emptiness, any belief in an objective reality grounded in the assumption of intrinsic, independent existence is untenable. All things and events, whether material, mental or even abstract concepts like time, are devoid of objective, independent existence. To possess such independent, intrinsic existence would imply that things and events are somehow complete unto themselves and are therefore entirely self-contained. This would mean that nothing has the capacity to interact with and exert influence on other phenomena. But we know that there is cause and effect - turn a key in a starter, spark plugs ignite, the engine turns over and petrol and oil are burned. In a universe of self-contained, inherently existing things, these events would never occur. =20 Effectively, the notion of intrinsic, independent existence is incompatible with causation. This is because causation implies contingency and dependence, while anything that possesses independent existence would be immutable and self-enclosed. Everything is composed of dependently related events, of continuously interacting phenomena with no fixed, immutable essence, which are themselves in constantly changing dynamic relations. Things and events are "empty" in that they do not possess any immutable essence, intrinsic reality or absolute "being" that affords independence. =20 The theory of emptiness was first systematically expounded by the great Buddhist philosopher Nagarjuna (circa 2nd century AD). Little is known of his personal life, but he came from southern India and he was - after Buddha himself - the single most important figure for the formulation of Buddhism in India. Historians credit him with the emergence of the Middle Way school of Mahayana Buddhism, which remains the predominant school among Tibetans to this day. =20 ONE of the most extraordinary and exciting things about modern physics is the way the microscopic world of quantum mechanics challenges our common-sense understanding. The facts that light can be seen as either a particle or a wave, and that the uncertainty principle tells us we can never know at the same time what an electron does and where it is, and the quantum notion of superposition all suggest an entirely different way of understanding the world from that of classical physics, in which objects behave in a deterministic and predictable manner. For instance, in the well-known example of Schr=F6dinger's cat, in which a cat is placed inside a box containing a radioactive source that has a 50 per cent chance of releasing a deadly toxin, we are forced to accept that, until the lid is opened, this cat is both dead and alive, seemingly defying the law of contradiction. =20 To a Mahayana Buddhist exposed to Nagarjuna's thought, there is an unmistakable resonance between the notion of emptiness and the new physics. If on the quantum level, matter is revealed to be less solid and definable than it appears, then it seems to me that science is coming closer to the Buddhist contemplative insights of emptiness and interdependence. At a conference in New Delhi, I once heard Raja Ramanan, the physicist known to his colleagues as the Indian Sakharov, drawing parallels between Nagarjuna's philosophy of emptiness and quantum mechanics. =20 After having talked to numerous scientist friends over the years, I have the conviction that the great discoveries in physics going back as far as Copernicus give rise to the insight that reality is not as it appears to us. When one puts the world under a serious lens of investigation - be it the scientific method and experiment or the Buddhist logic of emptiness or the contemplative method of meditative analysis - one finds things are more subtle than, and in some cases even contradict, the assumptions of our ordinary common-sense view of the world. =20 One may ask, apart from misrepresenting reality, what is wrong with believing in the independent, intrinsic existence of things? For Nagarjuna, this belief has serious negative consequences. Nagarjuna argues that it is the belief in intrinsic existence that sustains the basis for a self-perpetuating dysfunction in our engagement with the world and with our fellow human beings. By according intrinsic properties of attractiveness, we react to certain objects and events with deluded attachment, while towards others, to which we accord intrinsic properties of unattractiveness, we react with deluded aversion. =20 In other words, Nagarjuna argues that grasping at the independent existence of things leads to affliction, which in turn gives rise to a chain of destructive actions, reactions and suffering. In the final analysis, for Nagarjuna, the theory of emptiness is not a question of the mere conceptual understanding of reality. It has profound psychological and ethical implications. =20 I once asked my physicist friend David Bohm this question: from the perspective of modern science, apart from the question of misrepresentation, what is wrong with the belief in the independent existence of things? His response was telling. He said that if we examine the various ideologies that tend to divide humanity, such as racism, extreme nationalism and the Marxist class struggle, one of the key factors of their origin is the tendency to perceive things as inherently divided and disconnected. From this misconception springs the belief that each of these divisions is essentially independent and self-existent. Bohm's response, grounded in his work in quantum physics, echoes the ethical concern about harbouring such beliefs that had worried Nagarjuna, who wrote nearly 2000 years before. =20 Granted, strictly speaking, science does not deal with questions of ethics and value judgements, but the fact remains that science, being a human endeavour, is still connected to the basic question of the well-being of humanity. So in a sense, there is nothing surprising about Bohm's response. I wish there were more scientists with his understanding of the interconnectedness of science, its conceptual frameworks and humanity. =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D =20 I found this valuable to consider. =20 D T B [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Thu Jan 19 03:13:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40741 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2006 11:13:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2006 11:13:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.70) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2006 11:13:13 -0000 Received: from [216.175.69.13] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EzXeA-0005IF-T8; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 06:08:07 -0500 To: Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 03:07:37 -0800 Message-ID: <011d01c61ce8$9316c050$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <2a7006300601182307v72fd1807sde2b7539d208b56a@mail.gmail.com> X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79daa956b9eb7de7f57d63bdf0ad7e7d11350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: Free energy from the quantum vacuum X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=Dq73W9zjxTdzqfPKUcvVDL8P8P_iyvgIXb5rdtM2OUUiiQ X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/19/2006 2:57 AM INTERESTING Dallas TenBroeck [also see in THEOSOPHIST (1879-80) Vol. I p. 55-57 ] GARY'S MAGNETIC MOTOR ========================================================= From: Odin [mailto:otownley@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 11:07 PM To: Reed; Jerome Wheeler; Dallas Subject: FREE ENERGY FROM THE QUANTUM VACUUM 14 January 2006 >From New Scientist Print Edition. Free energy from the quantum vacuum KNOWING how much Feedback appreciates pellucid examples of totally rational scientific exposition, Colin Osborne directs us to the website www.cheniere.org, where we can read in copious detail about Tom Bearden's Motionless Electromagnetic Generator. This wonderful device, a package 10 centimetres long that promises to deliver 2.5 kilowatts of free energy harvested from the quantum vacuum, must be real: it is the subject of US patent 6362718. To our untutored eye, it looks like a perfectly normal electrical transformer with a permanent magnet at its centre. So what's holding up the cornucopia of free energy? The lack of $12 million in development money, apparently, and the insistence of potential funders on engaging conventional electrical engineers - who everyone knows are blinkered. These engineers just don't understand how the "giant negentropy mechanism continuously replenishes the A-potential as fast as energy is extracted from it". Nor can they see that "due to the peculiar nature of the Aharonov-Bohm effect that generates the excess energy inputs to the MEG from its immediately adjacent space, we are dealing with multiple energy inputs and signals to every coil and every wire..." When we dig around we find a host of carping critics, including arch-debunker James Randi. Shame on them. They will surely get their comeuppance when Bearden publishes his promised papers "pointing out suggested changes in Aristotelian logic and some of its shortcomings". http://www.cheniere.org/ From dalval14@earthlink.net Thu Jan 19 05:10:18 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14507 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2006 13:10:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2006 13:10:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.70) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2006 13:10:17 -0000 Received: from [216.175.69.13] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EzZYB-0007ja-Jz; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 08:10:04 -0500 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 05:09:41 -0800 Message-ID: <013201c61cf9$9cf9aa40$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec795422fa0c8e945e2ad2f000a311703872350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: QUESTIONS ABOUT REINCARNATION PART i X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=vvzp32IazgIyL1nTfoI8jmTcR7nyP8cDq4duT2ip6lr-QQ X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 On REINCARNATION [ Part I ] While the word =93reincarnation=94 is in very general use these days, havin= g filtered into the public mind from Theosophic teachings, there still exists a lamentable ignorance in regard to its scope and meaning.=20 A very common idea is that the =93personality=94 reincarnates, but there co= uld hardly be a more unphilosophical, illogical and obviously incorrect one. Some spiritualists, dogmatic Christians, and even minds of a materialistic bent have adopted the word and given it their own peculiar applications, so that when one of these says =93I believe in reincarnation=94, little or no knowledge of =93What reincarnates=94 is most likely to be found.=20 The world therefore needs students who learn correctly and apply their knowledge, so that =91in time by their numbers and knowledge, the true understanding may filter through to those less learned. We are students, it is true, but from the very first we can and should be teachers to those who know still less than we do; we can tell what we know, but we should be very careful that we are so well informed that we will not convey false impressions.=20=20 Reincarnation, and Karma; are the two doctrines the world most needs and we should devote ourselves to a full understanding of them for the sake of others, as well as our own understanding and progress. ------------------------- =A0 Q. If the law of reincarnation is just, why is it that the Jewish race has been so persecuted ? =A0 A. In considering any question of experience we have first of all to take into account the Law of Karma=97action and re-action, or sowing and reaping= ; this on the face of it cannot be anything else but exact justice. Reincarnation is the result of karmic action, and also offers the opportunity to set better causes in motion. If selfishness rules in any one life, evil causes are set in motion the results of which must be adjusted either in that life or a following one.=20 The tendency of selfishness is to increase with each incarnation, and if a people or individuals continue in that course, they will continually injure others and bring about their own re-actions at the hands of those injured. So if we find any people particularly marked out for persecution, we may be sure that as egos in other times they had been the offenders and are reapin= g what they sowed. =A0 Q. What was it that began evolution? =A0 A. The course of Being is an ever-becoming. Ever-becoming is endless, therefore beginningless. This solar system and its planets of course had a beginning and will have an ending, but every manifestation is but a further becoming of that which had been.=20 Periods of Manifestation and Non-Manifestation succeed each other in Infinite Space, to which neither beginning nor ending can be applied (see the Second Fundamental Proposition of the Secret Doctrine). The ancient way of stating any beginning is, =93the Desire first arose in It=94: IT referri= ng to Spirit, which is the cause and sustainer of all that was, is, or shall be. There is a beginning to the first glimmerings of external consciousness, which ever tends to widen its range of perception and manifestation until i= t encompasses and becomes at one with All; Potential Spirit having become Potent Intelligence.=20 The ending of the process results in a new beginning based upon the totalit= y of intelligence attained. Whatever begins in time ends in time. Time is clu= e to perceptions of Consciousness; as the Secret Doctrine says, =93Time is an illusion produced by the procession of events before our consciousness=94; beginnings and endings pertain to that =93illusion=94, and not to the beginningless and endless Spirit which is the Perceiver.=20 As the Gita says, =93The Spirit in the body is called Maheswara, the great Lord, the Spectator, the admonisher, the sustainer, the enjoyer, and also the Paramatma, the highest soul=94; itself without beginning or ending, it makes beginnings and endings in manifestations, which as manifestations are beginningless and endless in their turn. =A0 Q. What does it mean, =93And as all the matter which the human Ego gathered= to it retains the stamp or photographic impression of the human being, the matter transmigrates to the lower level when given an animal impress by the Ego? =A0 A. Mr. Judge had been explaining how the erroneous idea of the transmigration of souls to the animal kingdom had arisen. The substance which composes our astral and physical bodies is the embodiment of innumerable small =93lives=94; while we use these =93lives=94 as points of = contact with the astral and physical world, we at the same time impress them with our feelings, whether these be low or high, and when the =93lives=94 depart= from our bodies to be replaced by others, as is continually being done, the impress we have given them will carry them to whatever kingdom the impress is related to. According to the impress we give these =93lives=94 we advanc= e or retard evolution. =A0 Q. If there is an inharmonious condition of the lives in the body, do they attack proportionately every life within that body, or only certain organs? =A0 A. Any inharmony in the body disturbs the whole. There is not only obstruction, but a vitiation of the bodily processes in a progressive way i= f the cause of the diseased condition is not found, and causal and remedial measures are not adopted. =A0 Q. It has been found in post-mortem examinations that every tissue in the body is affected. =A0 A. That would naturally follow because of the circulatory system. The blood is representative of and carries with it an essence from all the organs; an= y unhealthy organ distributes vitiation throughout the body. =A0 Q. The lives of the lower kingdoms go back to their own kingdoms on the dissolution of the body. Would that not be retrogression? What is the Karma of those lives? =A0 A. It would be a mistake to suppose that the lives which compose our bodies go back to their respective kingdoms only on the dissolution of the body; there is a constant coming and going during our lifetime, through the food and in other ways. The =93lives=94 are not the same when they go as when th= ey come; they may remain on the human plane or may go to lower kingdoms according to the impress given them by the human being.=20 It is the impress given them that determines their destination; the Karma i= s that of the human being who gave the impress and impulse; the retrogression=97if it may be so called=97is due to the human being.=20 The =93lives=94 having no sense of responsibility nor volition are not karmically responsible; their nature is action, but action under impulsion; their degree of consciousness is not changed, but their modes of action may be. Retrogression applies to consciousness, not to form; for example, a being in human form may ascend to divine heights or descend below the brute in consciousness. =A0 Q. Does Man use the same material or lives over and over again ? =A0 A. He uses the same kind of lives, those that are of the same nature as his tendencies. =93Lives=94 that he has used and impressed may be in other form= s of the human kingdom, or in lower kingdoms as the case may be. There is a constant interchange going on, like attracting like. =A0 Q. Then Man really can change the nature of the lives which compose his body? =A0 A. If he could not, he would be at the mercy of his body=97subject to its condition. We know that good habits can be acquired through thought and effort in those directions; similarly with bad habits; these changes are du= e to the impress given the lives in our body by Thought, Feeling and Effort. But the body is the least of our troubles.=20 Were our thoughts based upon the Eternal Verities, our efforts would be for true understanding and right purpose; the bodily conditions would follow in due course. If our thoughts are concerned with the body, the possibilities are very limited, because of the limitation of thought to the bodily plane. =A0 Q. The chapter speaks of the =93personality=94; will we have the same personality again ? =A0 A. The word =93Personality=94 comes from the Latin word =93Persona=94=97a m= ask, by means of which we conceal or express our inward feelings. It is the inner ideas, and feelings, the general character=97that is meant by the word =93personality=94: the latter is in a constant state of change, whether tha= t be great or small. The =93way we used to think and feel=94 is not =93as we fee= l now or think=94.=20 The personality in the next life will he made up of tendencies engendered i= n past lives with the addition of those of the present one, subject to the conditions into which those tendencies have brought us; those conditions ma= y include change in sex, condition and environment. The feeling of =93identit= y=94 that all have is not due to the body or its environment, but to the Egoic nature of each. =A0 Q. Why do they condemn reincarnation in the Christian churches? =A0 A. Because they have followed the lead of the Church Fathers who anathematized the doctrine in the early centuries of the Christian Era. There is evidence throughout the Old and New Testament that Reincarnation was a doctrine generally accepted; the Jews were constantly expecting =93th= e return=94 of their prophets, that is, the re-embodiment or reincarnation of one who had occupied a body before.=20 In the New Testament there are a number of allusions to it such as that whe= n the disciples asked where is the prophet Elias who was expected to come before Jesus, and Jesus replied that Elias had been with them, but they kne= w him not, and the disciples knew =93that he spake of John the Baptist=94. =A0=A0 Q. The Gita says there is no existence for what does not exist, nor is ther= e any non-existence for what exists. Everything must have existed at all time= s surely? =A0 A. Whatever is has become what it is; whatever is to be will also be a =93becoming.=94 Evolution is the process of becoming, an unfolding from wit= hin outwards; having =93unfolded=94 there is no non-existence for it, but an extension of unfoldment. The great Ocean of Life contains infinite possibilities of existence, but itself is not ex-istent, for the word means to emerge, to stand forth, to stand out (ex-sistere). The Ocean of Life is the source and sustainer of all existences; that which has emerged exists; that which has not emerged has no existence. =A0 Q. There being the One Life and the One Law, it would appear that all would start at the same time? =A0 A. We are confronted by the fact of the kingdoms of beings below Man and that of Man himself; the present state of these kingdoms shows that there was a difference in the beginnings of them as beings=97 or existences. What= we need to do is to study and apply the philosophy of life as it is given to us, so that we may know why things are as they are and what the real purpos= e of existence is. Law rules in all this, not sentiment. =A0 Q. If Consciousness=97the Perceiver, never changes, what is it that evolves= ? =A0 A. The Perceiver has the power to perceive and to increase his range of perceptions. His power to perceive is not changed by reason of any perceptions gained; he can always continue to increase his field of perceptions. As his perceptions increase in range, he evolves a better instrument through which to give and receive impressions. An ever-increasin= g Intelligence and a betterment of form constitute the evolution. =A0 Q. But if the Perceiver never changes, what is the link that binds him to his evolutions? =A0 A. His knowledge of them; he cannot unknown what he knows. Upon the basis o= f his acquired knowledge further knowledge can be acquired. The universe is evolved, ruled and sustained by Intelligence. =A0 Q. What is the Will! =A0 A. Will is the energy of Consciousness expressed in action, on any plane of manifestation. There are many aspects of the Will, from the ordinary one which is =93the will to live=94 and is expressed in the automatic physical action, such as the heart-beat, digestion, etc.; that of the actions following on ordinary thought, desires and wants; that which is developed b= y various forms of practice; to the highest phase, that of the Spiritual Will= . This phase is developed by true unselfishness, a sincere and full desire to be guided, ruled and assisted by the Higher Self, and to do that which, and suffer or enjoy whatever, the Higher Self has in store for one by way of discipline or experience. =A0 Q. Mr. Judge says that the entrance to incarnation is through food. What is meant by that? =A0 A. A hint is given in the chapter in regard to the actual physical processe= s which have to be undergone by the Ego in passing from the un-embodied to th= e embodied state. It is clear that our bodies are formed from and sustained b= y food from conception to the death of the body.=20 This food is drawn from the physical kingdoms of nature and is transmuted into the various elements that go to make up and sustain the body and its processes.=20 Reproduction is going on all the time in the blood, cells, organs and finer constituents of the body, and is necessarily influenced and characterized b= y the ideas and feelings of the conscious entity inhabiting the body. It is not difficult to conceive of a transmutation of all these reproductions int= o one synthetic condition, such as will provide a point of contact for the astral body of the reincarnating entity, and a means for the gradual concretion of the physical body, organs and processes before birth.=20 Q. The chapter says that Atma-Buddhi Manas is not yet fully incarnated in this race. What does this mean? =A0 A. The statement is that the Divine Triad, containing as it does the knowledge gained through all past lives, has not reached the point where this knowledge is available on this plane. Atma-Buddhi-Manas is the Triad.= =20 The entering wedge, so to speak, which makes the connection between the Inner Man and the physical world, is Manas, the Thinker and Mind.=20 The long course of evolution necessary to transmute the physical elements into a responsive tenement for the indwelling Ego has so centered the attention of the Ego upon the body and its surroundings=97the external physical world=97that while using a body in its periodic incarnations, it i= s bound by its previous thoughts and actions under the law of Karma, reaping what had been sown in previous lives, and sowing similar seeds for the future.=20 This only permits of Manasic operation on the physical plane, because the ideas held are based upon that plane and relate to it, thus leaving the vas= t store of past and inner experiences unavailable.=20 This is the condition of Humanity as a whole; yet there never has been a time when a gaining of full knowledge and control was impossible to the individual. It is because of this incompleteness of incarnation that we fin= d so many psychological mysteries among human beings.=20 Personal psychological experiences are usually taken to be communications from higher beings, the nature of the supposed being varying with the personal ideas held; whereas, with few exceptions, such experiences are due to imperfect conceptions of the nature and powers of the Inner Man. Experiments in hypnotism have shown several so-called =93personalities=94 speaking through one person, and each of them different in character from the others and the person experimented upon.=20 The explanation may be found in the fact that in many cases the abnormal condition which hypnosis produces permits fugitive and unrelated experience= s of past existences to be perceived, and adopted as present actualities. As the present cycle moves on, more and more of these and other psychological =93mysteries=94 will become evident; these will al ways remain mysteries to present-day Western Psychology, but the Ancient Wisdom of the East solves them all. =A0 Q. What is it that prevents our psychologists, scientists and religious teachers from knowing these things? =A0 A. Ignorance and pride. Ignorance of the real nature of Man and the purpose of existence, and pride in their own personal predilections and pursuits. Centuries of materialistic conceptions of religion, science, and life in general, have served to close the intellects of men to any true perceptions of the nature of the very intelligence they are using in these pursuits. Beliefs take the place of knowledge, and theories the place of under standing, because both belief and theory proceed from the basis of terrestrial existence instead of the spiritual real and permanent source of all manifestation. =A0 Q. On page 71 is stated, that as we progress in this life, so also must we progress on leaving it, and s would be unfair to compel the others to await our arrival in order that we may recognize them. It seems there is progress after death, more so in fact than during life in the body ? =20 A. The context on that page shows that the Teacher is replying to objection= s of those who expect to recognize their friends who have gone before by thei= r physical appearance and general characteristics, an expectation which is really based upon a stoppage of progress.=20 It is also known that the Real Man who passes from existence in a body into other states and returns again from time to time, is really blending his experiences of any one state with his experiences in other states and consequently is making progress after death much more rapidly than bodily conditions could possibly permit. The degree and kind of progress made depends upon the nature of his thinking during life, and may be small or great in one direction or another.=20 Technically speaking, Lower-Manas is the reservoir of the life thoughts and feelings. Those that are assimilable with Higher Manas are absorbed and become an addition to Higher Manas; while those that are of the nature of earth, earthy, remain as tendencies to be met, and either intensified or transmuted during the succeeding incarnation. The progress referred to is that of the Higher Ego; the personality and earth-life is the field wherein the Ego works; after death, the harvest being garnered, the wheat is separated from the chaff. =20 Q. Then there would be no sowing during the after-death states ? =20 A. The harvest was sown during the earth life last past; during the life time there was a reaping all the time of causes sown in a previous life, an= d during the life being lived; at death, the sum total of all the thoughts, feelings, desires and tendencies held during life remain as the basis or cause for the subjective kama-lokic and devachanic states; the effects of these are then worked out subjectively, these =93effects=94 of the earth-li= fe becoming then the =93cause=94 of the =93effects=94 experienced subjectively= in the after-death states. Sowing and reaping in the field of objective existence provides the =93seed=94 for the subjective after-death states, karma operat= ing continuously in all states. =20 Q. Then different individuals would have different after-death states, and have each one his own period between incarnations ? =20 A. It could not he otherwise; for just as each one=92s personal existence i= n a body differs from every other=97 is peculiarly his very own in fact=97so th= e after-death states differ in exact accord with the life as lived in a body.= =20 Some live their lives with much of good and little of evil; others with muc= h of evil and little of good, each one bringing about his own proportion of these; it is the proportion in each case which determines the period betwee= n incarnations.=20 We must remember in considering these matters that time and space are not the same subjectively as they are with us in bodies; our days and nights, months, years and duration of physical existence are governed by the revolutions of our planet, but in the case of removal from such conceptions of time, ideas of that and of space differ greatly on the subjective plane of being.=20 When we are happy, time passes without notice; when we are miserable, time drags; in both cases the hours of our mortal time may be the same, but the sense of the procession of events before our consciousness will make the hours seem fast or slow according to the state we are in. If we are able while in bodies to realize such a conception of time while there is everything about us to remind us of terrestrial time, we should be able to comprehend some thing of a state where such reminders are entirely absent. =20 Q. Will a person in his next reincarnation express what he has assimilated = ? =20 A. No one can express what he has not assimilated; that is, =97has made a basis for action. But the question should be amended so as to read =93Individual=94 instead of =93Person=94.=20 The =93personality=94 is in any one life but a temporary aspect and action = of the Individuality, and differs in each life, in the environment and in such changes as have been brought about in previous existences=97in character, disposition and understanding; these may produce in the next incarnation a change of social relation, mental capacity, nature of body, physical environment, and even of sex.=20 The personality does not re-incarnate; the Individuality at each re-birth projects a new personality, the qualities and tendencies of which are drawn from the sum-total of all past lives=97not only the last one. All the past experience is within and behind each personality and can be reached and realized, yet may remain entirely latent or partially so, according to a more or less intensive conception of personality as a thing in itself and o= f physical existence as the only reality. =20 Q. If the physical life and experience controls the after-death states, it would seem as though the higher planes were controlled by life on the physical plane ? =20 A. They would be so controlled, if the after-death states could be called =93higher planes=94, but as the after- death states of Kama-Loka and Devach= an are the effects of the life last lived, and are both personal in experience= , they cannot properly be called higher planes. Kama=97Loka and Devachan represent respectively the =93low=94 and the =93high=94 subjective states o= f the life last lived as a person. The higher planes of being pertain to the tria= d of Atma-Buddhi-Manas, the real Individuality, who, as the immortal being, possesses all the knowledge gained through all past experiences. =20 Q. In the case of a nation that engages in war, thus encouraging the lower instincts, would it not draw into incarnation lower egos ? =20 A. In the case of each ego in a body, the results will depend upon the motive which actuated him in engaging in war or in any other direction.=20 A nation is composed of individual units, the nature of the action in any given case depending upon the ruling motive of the individual.=20 If the motives of the units engaged in war were for justice and freedom, regardless of the necessary war-like acts, then when the objects were obtained and peace resumed, those units would still be actuated by the same motives and would draw egos of like nature.=20 The condition of war may equally provide greater opportunities for self-sacrificing righteous action, and for selfish license and debasement; which it shall be depends upon the nature and choice of the unit. A nation has no existence apart from the units which compose it. A selfish peace wil= l result in greater perversions than any number of wars waged for righteous purposes; selfishness lies at the root of all sin, sorrow and suffering. Q. What difference does it make what kind of a family an ego is drawn into; it might as well have its experience in one way as well as another? =20 A. The question implies a denial of individual karma, and in fact karma of any sort; it leaves out of consideration the fact of the needs of the Soul by way of discipline and experience. The entrance into birth of an ego, together with the conditions connected with that birth, are pre-determined by the individual merit or demerit of previous lives. The ego cannot enter birth until such conditions as meet its needs are present. Law rules in all such matters, or nothing could be predicted as a resultant of any course of thought and action. =20 Q. The ego might in some cases have a very long time to wait, might he not? =20 A. Time with the ego is not what it is with our limitation of conceptions; he is self-conscious and active on higher planes, and =93time=94 as we know= it does not affect him as ego; it is only when the culmination of conditions which he while in the body helped to produce is consummated, that he is unavoidably drawn back to rebirth. Rebirth is due to our un-remedied defects, not to our virtues. =20 Q. Is there any place in nature in which there is a ruling law of Heredity? =20 A. Heredity prevails on all planes of being; we inherit the resultants of our activities on all planes. Vie may know our earthly pedigree, hut who of us has ever traced all the links of heredity, astral, psychic and spiritual which go to make us what we in reality are? The Secret Doctrine speaks of three general lines of heredity, the Spiritual, the Intellectual, and the Physical, and says that these three are intermixed and interblended at ever= y point. =20 Q. The trend of the Gita is in the direction of freedom from rebirth. Is no= t a righteous and happy existence in a body the chief end of Man? A. That would imply that the whole trend of evolution was toward a material existence, whereas all the facts point in the direction that the Real Man i= s in essence Spiritual, and has in the immensity of his past accumulated vast stores of knowledge, by means of which He has contacted and is working with= , what is generally called Matter, but which in reality is the intelligence and embodiment of entities of a much lower kind.=20 His object is not to seek and make permanent a perfect physical embodiment for Himself, but by his contact and use of these lower lives to gradually give them the impulse toward self-consciousness, which alone can arouse to action the latent spirituality in all these lower intelligences. The word Spirituality does not mean a hazy, indefinite condition, as many regard it, but =93an intimate knowledge of the ultimate essence of every thing in Nature.=94=20 The Real Man=97the Triad of Atma Buddhi-Manas---- therefore descended into =93matter=94=97to use such a misunderstood term=97in order to contact, unde= rstand it as the embodiment and expression of the innumerable intelligences of which it is composed, and give these lives impulse and direction towards self-consciousness.=20 That He has failed to carry out=97as He might have done=97the initial self-sacrificing purpose, is due to the illusions pertaining to sentient existence, in which He has become involved by setting up causes which inevitably under karma keep him fluctuating between Birth, Death, Kama-Loka and Devachan in a continuing series.=20 The freedom from rebirth of which the Gita speaks, is obtained by setting u= p causes born from an understanding of Man=92s real nature and mission, and action on the basis of that understanding while in a body. Once the chain o= f lower causation is broken by Him, He is free to choose, and more over has brought into play on all planes the sum-total of his knowledge.=20 >From then on, His field is the whole of Nature, visible and invisible; He will then live a conscious existence in Spirit, not in Matter, and can, while occupying bodies of temporary duration, maintain and use His spiritua= l self-consciousness, knowledge and power on that plane of existence, without detriment or hindrance. Such are the results of =93freedom from rebirth=94; instead of loss, as so many imagine, it means immeasurable gain; the goal i= s worthy of all effort. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Part II REINCARNATION QUESTIONS ANSWERED -- to follow Best wishes, Dallas =09=09=09 From dalval14@earthlink.net Thu Jan 19 05:36:48 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48974 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2006 13:36:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2006 13:36:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.70) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2006 13:36:47 -0000 Received: from [216.175.69.13] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EzZrk-0002sj-51; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 08:30:18 -0500 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 05:29:48 -0800 Message-ID: <013301c61cfc$6ee64980$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79251626082c0702544d01f9fc8f690ebd350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: Part II REINCARNATION QUESTIONS ANSWERED X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=KQw2UgdIQmyaYDjz5vKzvVP0UVWvw-MVtlmzIC24n1PLUQ X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Part II REINCARNATION QUESTIONS ANSWERED Q. How can we in our ignorance make that effort? A. The Masters of Wisdom have supplied us with the necessary means. Ignorance is destroyed only by Knowledge. Ignorance is composed of false conceptions, and actions on the basis of false conceptions can only lead to more ignorance and its results in sin, sorrow and suffering. The Theosophical Philosophy, as given by Those who brought it, must be learned, studied and applied in all our relations with our fellow- men; this must be done by each of us, no one can do it for us. This implies that our predilections and prejudices acquired from an adoption of the ordinary views of life must be given up, and the basis of thought and action that the Philosophy indicates must take their place. The Devotional books, such as the Gita and the Voice should be constantly read and meditated upon, for they tend to arouse spiritual perceptions. With the means supplied, and an effort to act for and as the Self of all, channels will be opened up within our selves that will lead to Inner knowledge. As the Master said, "All Nature is before you; take what you can." Q. Then the after-death states would be the building-in of the experiences gained? It should be understood that the after-death states of Kama-Loka and Devachan are wholly personal in their nature. The sloughing off of the purely terrestrial desires and passions is Kama-Loka; the assimilation and enjoyment of all that was best in the life last lived, is the Devachanic condition. Both states are Subjective, that is-the being in both states is occupied with his own thoughts, desires and feelings; is not aware of the presence of other beings, nor in contact with them. The world he lives in is peopled by his own creations, which are as real to him as were the physical beings he moved among during his bodily existence. Having had his varied experience in the physical world, he leaves the body which served him as the means of contact with physical beings and lives in the desires, feelings and thoughts which his contact with the physical plane had engendered. At death-of which the being is not aware, being still his conscious thinking self-the thoughts prevailing are those that sprung from his relations with others in bodies and necessarily relate to his desires- this is Kama-Loka, the place or state of Desire. As his purely physical desires are not reinforced or stimulated by contact with other beings, they gradually die out, and his higher ideals and attributes remain as the basis for the Devachanic state, a state where no thought of sin, sorrow, suffering or death can enter, or even that such things exist. In both states he feels himself to be the same person, obtains his compensation for the sorrows of life in Devachan and assimilates in that state the best of his life last lived, adding the result to his inner egoic nature. Then a new birth based upon the unexpended causes generated during previous lives. Q. What is meant by "unexpended causes"? A. If-as is shown-we have lived many lives and have affected other incarnated beings in a way that requires adjustment by us, and the co-ordination of our lives heretofore has not been such as to bring us in contact so as to make that adjustment possible, these unexpended causes will have to be met as effects In some life and either adjusted, or strengthened as further causes. We may be meeting in this life the effects of causes set in motion many lives back as well as those. of a more recent causation. As we think over the contacts with others in this present life, we will find some that were friendly for a time, and others that were inimical, but both of which are but memories now, our external connections with those persons having ceased. These friends or enemies of ours are still what we made them, and although the feelings then engendered have no present means of manifestation, nevertheless they remain as unexpended causes in our nature, and in the natures of those friends and enemies, the effects of which will be experienced when we meet again in this or future lives. The lapse of time does not change the power or nature of the cause. We should therefore make friends for the future as Jesus advised in saying, "Forgive your enemies; do good to them that despite- fully use you and persecute you". Q. It would seem then that we are bound by an endless chain of cause and effect to earth-life? A. It would be, and is an "endless chain" if we persist in setting causes in motion that bind us to rebirth; but this we need not do, and would not, if we knew our real nature. It is to point the way to freedom from rebirth that Theosophy was given to us, to relieve us from the dire necessity which the operation of the Law of Karma in ourselves compels us to undergo. The Gita says "Freedom comes from a renunciation of self-interest in the fruits of our actions". Not that we should desire to escape, but that we should so think and act as to bring about the purposes of Soul. This we can do when we know and realize our real nature and act in accordance with It, for in It lies the source of all power, and with It the freedom of choice. Q. Then a Master who occupied a body for the benefit of Humanity would not pass through the Kama- Lokic and Devachanic states after the death of the body? A. No. He would occupy the body without being attached to it. He would be living a conscious existence in Spirit, while being "in all things like unto us" as far as appearances go. He would know how to balance Cause and Effect in all that He did, having no attachment to either and acting only for the good of all. Operating through a body with full knowledge, He would have no illusions and therefore no personal subjective states like Kama-Loka or Devachan, and on leaving the body, would exist in His own true nature as He had been existing all the time. As an ancient saying is: "He loves, and He understands", and He serves Humanity as best He can. Q. In returning to birth does the Ego have to pass through the same experiences in Kama-Loka that he passed through after the death of the body? A. He does not pass through the same experiences for they were those of that personal life, and in re birth a new combination of the Ego's past lives, Consisting of such unexpended causes as the particular period of re-birth permits, makes up the new personality. The Ego, however, finds awaiting him those Kamic tendencies which he had not overcome; at the same time he will be strengthened by his Devachanic assimilation. Q. An Ego who had exhausted his Devachanic experiences and required re-birth but found nothing that suited his requirements would be in a miserable state would he not? A. We must remember the nature of the Ego. He is not any of his personalities; they make up the field of his earthly experiences. When the best effects of the life last lived are exhausted in Devachan and the sum of them added to all past experiences of the Ego, be they great or small, all personal illusions have vanished. He exists as Ego, and-to use a phrase-reviews the past and sees what must follow under Karma. Our conceptions of time have no effect upon the Ego; karmic conditions alone move him; when these are ready he sinks into re-birth in that race, period and family that will give him the requisite environment according to his individual karma. Q. Two lines at the foot of page 73, that the divergences from physical heredity are vastly greater than the transmitted traits, would indicate that physical heredity is not a law? A. Physical heredity is a process by which the Law is fulfilled. There is necessarily a karmic connection between the ego entering birth and the parents and family into which he comes. The parents furnish the embodiment with those tendencies that best meet the in coming ego's requirements for that life. There are Three lines of evolution, the Spiritual, the Manasic or Intellectual, and the Physical, and these three are inter mixed and interblended at every point. Q. Please explain Spiritual Heredity? A. According to the Secret Doctrine there are Seven great hierarchies of spiritual beings; every human being is a descent from one or another of those Seven great classes of being. This question however requires special study before any attempt at a comprehensible reply could be made; the Secret Doctrine will give all the information available. Q. The earth is such a small planet in the vast assemblage of planets, would that not indicate that people incarnated here from other planets? A. Not if we understand the workings of Karma. We are connected spiritually, intellectually, astrally and physically with the beings which constitute the evolutionary stream of this earth, and can no more separate ourselves from them than we can separate our physical heart from our head and exist as physical beings. We are karmically indebted to all the kingdoms connected with the earth for every vehicle of consciousness that we possess; our minds also are colored and limited by the mind of the race to which we belong. The same is true of the humanities of other planets; they must reap where they have sown, they cannot reap where they have not sown. As we rise to Egoic consciousness we will transcend all ideas of particular localities, and be sensible of varying conditions rather than places or planets. Q. Well, after having reached all knowledge there would be no need of reincarnating ? A. Perhaps not in this race; perhaps not on this earth again; but all-knowledge is useless unless it is used; all-knowledge implies the knowledge gained by all beings, it does not contain that which has not been gained. Progress is continuous in possibility and in an infinite universe there is no stopping-place; to cease to progress is to stagnate. The ancient saying is that we can always approach the light, but we can never touch the flame, for that flame is our Self-the Self of All. Q. Can one tell whether a soul is progressing by any one incarnation? A. One can realize for himself his own ignorance and quickly or slowly gain real knowledge. He may realize what past lives must have been from the nature and strength of the difficulties he encounters in the struggle. It is enough if he sees the real goal and ever struggles towards it, and it will be well for him if he thinks not at all of his own progress but of what he can do to help others progress. "To live to benefit mankind is the first step." Q. In the chapter it says that people are incarnated together who have been together in other incarnations. Would that necessarily be continuous? A. We must remember that what we call "people" are Souls that we have met in bodies before, and in bodies have karmically connected ourselves with them for good or for evil. The bodily connection is brought about by the mutual karmic connection and from wise or foolish choice. The continuity of such relations depends upon our desires, but we cannot control the de sires of those who do not want what we do. As long as we hold to "likes and dislikes" as our basis, we will meet with those who occasioned them, while the latter in their turn may have changed from "like" to "dislike" or the reverse. We can "come out from among them" by not permitting our likes or dislikes to govern us. while being friendly and helpful to all. "The wise man seeks that which is homogeneous with his own nature." Q. Since we are in our present form as Humanity for eighteen million years, it would seem that if there were no wars there would be no room for all of us? A. Let us take another view of the question: if the earth has lasted for eighteen millions of years and there is no record of its being overcrowded at any time, why should we fear any such condition? It has been stated that while the number of reincarnating egos connected with the earth is very great, the number is limited in fact, there having been no increase of egos since the middle point of the seven rounds. Further, as those egos had no small part in the formation of the earth, there can be no doubt that it will accommodate in their proper periods all egos connected with it. The Law of Compensation or Karma adjusts all things to the need of the beings in manifestation. And while we are considering the question do let us not forget that our earth is in reality composed of six degrees of substance besides that which we perceive through our physical senses-the lowest of all. Q. It is said that by living according to the dictates of the Soul, the brain may be made porous. Can that be explained? A. It has been often stated that the body and brain are formed from the food, the brain being more plastic than any other organ of the body. Naturally the characteristics of our brain will be in accordance with our modes of thought and feeling. If our ways of thinking are purely personal, selfish and physical, the brain will only respond to such impressions; but by thinking on high ideals and acting in accordance with them the brain will gradually become impressionable by them. When the Change has been brought about. the brain will record all that goes on during sleep of the body, and we will be in touch with all our past existences and our whole inner nature. The "high ideals" spoken of are not the so-called high ideals of mankind which are based upon physical existence, but those which the Secret Doctrine shows to be concerned with the real Spiritual nature, its laws, and the real meaning of Evolution on all planes. Q. Why is it that so many people, the majority in fact, reject the idea of reincarnation? A. Largely from prejudice, either based upon a materialistic conception of life, or due to belief in a dogma which inhibits the exercise of the thinking powers. The majority of people do not do their own thinking, but accept one or other of the various kinds of ideas formulated and held by others ; that which is accepted and held by large numbers of people is to very many prima facie evidence of truth. Few go below the surface and enquire into the bases upon which the various beliefs are founded, yet the seeker after truth must prove all things and hold fast to that only which is self-evidently true. Q. Theosophy teaches that there are other humanities on other planets; is it not possible for an ego to go to some other planet after this life? A. When we consider that the inherent law of Karma rules all beings; that we reap as we have sown; that our birth and environment in this life is the result of previous lives on this planet, we cannot fail to see that our re-embodiment must be here, where we moved and worked before. The involved entity cannot transfer itself to another scene of action before it has over come all the causes drawing it here, and without its having worked out its responsibilities to other entities in the same stream of evolution. Q. On page 80 the chapter says that "Each human being has a definite character different from every other human being". Is not a large part of such character derived from the physical heredity? A. Man, who now inhabits physical bodies, is also the conscious entity who evolved and established them. Every family trait, tendency and characteristic is due to the use of physical bodies in that line of physical heredity by numbers of egos, and all are karmically drawn to that physical family line which each one had a part in establishing, thus coming into his own inheritance. Karma not only includes our individual sowing and reaping, but also the effects of our thoughts, words and deeds upon others, and especially upon those who are the most closely related. Each ego in incarnation has the opportunity to eliminate family defects in himself, and by so doing benefit the physical line. Q. Please explain the second paragraph on page 87; it seems a little contradictory to me. A. Mr. judge is there speaking of the musician Bach, whose family had none of his genius and pointing to the fact that it was not derived from physical heredity, but was peculiar to the incarnating entity. The coming of idiots or vicious children to parents who are good, pure and highly intellectual is not due to the physical heredity, but to the nature of the Ego incarnating. In such cases there must be some strong karmic connection between the parents and the deficient Ego, a connection incurred during past lives wherein some error of commission or omission had occurred and had contributed to the deficiency of the one so born. Such incarnations fulfill two purposes: (1) they provide a better opportunity for the deficient ego at the hands of those who were contributory to that deficiency, and (2) the karmic effects are felt by the parents, and the opportunity afforded for such adjustment as is possible by them. "Karma is an unerring tendency in the universe to restore equilibrium and it operates incessantly." Karma is made by the Egos, not by the bodies they inhabit. Q. Why is it that an ego will bring over one particular predominating factor ? A. Because the attention and effort of the Ego in other lives were exerted in that particular direction. it is well known that geniuses in many cases are eccentric in character, and occasionally abnormal to a marked degree; this is due to a one-sided development; right development should be all-round and balanced, not special in any one direction and neglectful of others. Q. On page 86 the chapter says that the old Aryan races will rise again to their height of glory. Does this mean that they will be always in existence? A. The chapter says, "Of all the old races the Aryan Indian alone yet remains as the preserver of the old doctrines. It will one day rise again to its old heights of glory". We are of the Aryan race, but Mr. Judge is speaking of the Aryan Indian race which alone has preserved the old doctrines, because of which it will rise again to its old heights of glory. Speaking generally, the Aryan is the Fifth Race; when its course has been completed, the egos composing the present Fifth Race will constitute the Sixth Race. Q. On page 87 it is said that the bee builds a cell on the rules of geometry, and that its intelligence is the effect of reincarnation either in the mind or the physical cell. Do the lower kingdoms follow the human kingdom? A. The statement referred to reads as follows, "And whether we look at the new-born babe flinging out its arms for self-protection, or the animal with very strong instinctual power, or the bee building a cell on the rules of geometry, it is all the effect of reincarnation acting either in the mind or physical cell, for under what was first laid down, no atom is devoid of life, consciousness, and intelligence of its own". The passage does not say that the intelligence of the bee is the effect of reincarnation in the mind or cell. It says that in the new-born babe, the animal, or the bee all that there appears is the effect of reincarnation, either in the mind, or in the physical cell, according to the kind of intelligence expressed and its particular form; "no atom is devoid of life, consciousness, and intelligence of its own". The human kingdom impresses and impels the lower lives for good or for evil. Q. On page 80, "Even the doctrine of the survival of the fittest should show this, for the fitness cannot come from nothing but must at last show itself from the coming to the surface of the actual inner character". Please explain that. A. The explanation seems quite clear in the paragraph from which the quotation is taken. Each individual has a definite character, the result of previous lives; whatever "fitness" there may be is due to previous existences. There are assemblages of individuals that we call nations; these nations have their distinguishing characteristics; the individuals composing these nations are drawn together because of similarity of distinguishing characteristics which constitute their peculiar "fitness" for any particular nation. All this is clue to karmic affinity-"like attracts like." Q. Will those who are killed in this war follow the line of anger and battle when they incarnate again? A. "Every human being has a definite character different from every other human being", and this is true whether in war or peace. As the character and tendencies are in peace, so they will be in war, for both peace and war are conditions and (do not in themselves change character. The question is, "Does war of necessity change an individual's character ?" There is no reason to think so. One of good character and tendencies would be likely to have these strengthened by the trials and self-sacrifice entailed by the conditions of war; in another in whom character and tendency were not good, the same conditions might afford opportunity for intensification of evil tendencies. It is all a question of the individual character and motive and the lessons learned, that form the basis for future incarnations. Q. Could a savior bring Russia out of the chaos in which she now is (1917) ? A. The chaotic conditions of Russia are an extreme example of the world-wide conditions; in no case is it possible to change such conditions save by a change of mind on the part of the people involved. A divine incarnation could do nothing unless the people would be willing to follow the lines such an one laid down. It is apparent that even in our own free country conditions are approaching a situation not so very far removed from that of Russia, for we are beginning to experience the results of selfish class interest, the sole basis of which is money and the power that it gives its possessors. Those who have, desire to hold and increase possessions; those who have not, would take from the present possessors and become in their turn the possessors of the future; in both cases the rank principle of personal selfishness prevails; there is nothing to choose between them. Q. Surely the intelligence of our people will prevent any such catastrophe as that which has befallen Russia? A. Intelligence, based upon high principles and true knowledge cannot fail to make for justice and right living, but intelligence founded upon personal selfishness can go to any lengths in the way of destruction. Ignorance and selfishness have brought Russia to her present pass. Intelligence and selfishness can do much worse. The question really is, "Upon what is the intelligence founded ?" Is it a material, a moral, or a spiritual conception? It is very evident that the prevailing idea among Western peoples is material in conception and practice; the more intelligence used along this line the more certain, rapid and destructive the results. Q. But Western peoples have the Christian religion to guide them; they believe in the Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of Man? A. There is no doubt that the principles enunciated by Jesus of Nazareth would make the world a better and a happier one, but who among all the people follows them in his daily life or in his dealings with his fellow-men; we profess "belief" in those principles and promulgated ethics and daily and hourly contravene them; of what avail is our religion or our belief, if we do not live it? Ancient history affords us examples of the same principles and ethics promulgated by divine incarnations in the ages gone by, but the people of those times professed acceptance of the teachings and following the path of materialism went down to extinction. Unless we change our ideas of life, and live according to the eternal verities, our Western nations with their materialistic civilizations will die out and disappear. Q. What is meant by "The Eternal Verities?" A. "The Eternal Verities" are based upon the Spiritual nature of Man; his evolution under Spiritual Law from the lowest form of intelligence to the highest; that the Law is inherent in each being and that each reaps what he sows without possibility of evasion; that physical existence is the lowest and least permanent of all the forms and is conditioned by Man him self in accordance with his recognition or denial of his Spiritual and Moral nature as the true basis of all life. Q. You mean an understanding and living of Theosophy? A. Just that. Man must save himself; no one, how ever high in intelligence and spiritual power, can do it f or him. He must learn and exercise his Spiritual perceptions and powers and make the material expression of them conform to that Spiritual nature. In fact, he will have to learn even if through untold lives he brings upon himself inexpressible suffering; for when he has suffered enough he will see the error of his ways, and then, perhaps through many lives, make restitution for wrongs done, or duties left undone. Q. If the entire world today adhered strictly to Theosophy, would there be competition? A. There would be emulation, not competition. The latter is an endeavor to benefit at the expense of others, while emulation is an effort to excel so as to be of greater benefit and service in the world of men; this service, however, must be based upon the needs of the Soul and not upon the imaginary physical requirements born of materialistic conceptions. Q. With regard to "the persistence of savagery"; are those in savage tribes souls of lesser experience? A. In the nature of evolution-an unfolding from within outwards-there must be souls of lesser experience, whose bodies and environment correspond to their so-far acquired nature. On the other hand there are diminishing physical tribes of which the Australian aborigines are an example, where the more advanced egos have incarnated in other races, leaving the use of that physical line to the less advanced. As the latter in due course leave the physical race, those remaining, being less capable, cause the physical strain to deteriorate, so that only the lowest class of intelligences of that tribe or race occupy such bodies. Finally, the physical race dies out through sterility, the egos connected with it having incarnated in other races. Q. Could a definition of Intelligent Patriotism be given? A. The question is one of Intelligence as applied to patriotism. A very ignorant man may have a strong patriotic feeling which may be aroused to inconsiderate action by himself or through the incitement of others. A more intelligent man would have a wider range of perception and action and yet concur in national sentiment and action against other nations with what he as an individual would consider wrong as against another individual; both of these cases are basically wrong. A truly intelligent patriotism would consider the individual as an integral part of the nation to which he belonged; the nation as an integral part of the assemblage of nations which constitute humanity as a whole. As every individual is born into a physical body through parents of some race or nation, and thus into the world of men, the karma of each such birth indicates the opportunity of one so born to eradicate in himself the defects of the family through which he came, and through the family the defects of the nation, for national defects are the sum total of all the individuals composing it, and the eradication of these defects begins and ends with the individual. Intelligent patriotism would therefore consist in doing our whole duty in that station where our karma has placed us, to our family, and to humanity as being made up of individuals, families and nations, while recognizing all as being the same in kind and differing only in degree. If our family duties are well and wisely per formed, our duties to tile nation and to humanity would to a great extent take care of themselves. By "family duties" and "national duties" is not meant false attachments to family or nation as a means of pride, pleasure-hunting or sensuality, but cultivating and elevating the higher sentiments and emotions of ourselves and of our family and utilizing them for the performance of our duty to tile nation and humanity in general. Q. The chapter speaks of a deficient or bad ego; what does that mean? A. There are many classes of egos. We should remember all the time that egos are evolving; that some Were self-conscious beings when this world of ours began, and that others have become human beings since that beginning and up to the middle point of the Third Race. Besides, the fact that there are bad and deficient men in physical existence points to badness and deficiency in egos, for it is the egos who incarnate. Q. I have understood that the ego is immortal and spiritual in nature! A. The ego is spiritual and immortal in essential nature, but as he possesses the power to perceive and to act and exemplifies the law of action and reaction in himself, as he works from higher to lower planes of substance he becomes involved in the lower planes through attachment to them and suffers accordingly until he overcomes his unwisdom and asserts and uses his real nature on the lower planes. As egos, we are only partially operative in bodies; Manas is not yet fully employed by us as a race; each incarnation is but one aspect of our past existences, we have to make the link between higher and lower, while we are in a body. Q. What would be the outcome if an ego while in a body continued a course of degeneracy and evil for life after life! A. In such a case, the force of the tendencies set in motion would in time break the link between the ego and his instrument during some life-time, and the instrument with the momentum given it would be an entity without a human soul. There are such creatures in the world, human in form, but soul-less. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From waking.adept@gmail.com Thu Jan 19 10:20:40 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: waking.adept@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57362 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2006 18:20:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2006 18:20:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wproxy.gmail.com) (64.233.184.202) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2006 18:20:39 -0000 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i32so260801wra for ; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 10:19:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.117.20 with SMTP id p20mr1146863wrc; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 10:19:04 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from fujiko.home.local ( [24.45.229.137]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 38sm2096566wrl.2006.01.19.10.19.03; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 10:19:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:19:14 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: Organization: Eve Software Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera M2/8.51 (Win32, build 7712) X-Originating-IP: 64.233.184.202 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Mark S. Hamilton Jr." Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Spam X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219719026 Often times the reply-to address is faked in this situation. The e-mail addresses are harvested from the person's address book or random places on the internet, which makes them harder to trace. -Mark H. On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 05:34:27 -0500, Erica Letzerich wrote: > Dear friends, > > Somebody is using the e-mail of the Zambia section of the TS. I have > received in the e-mail of the T.S. in Greece a bombing of e-mails > from: > > ronaksampat@hotmail.com > > I checked on the internet and this e-mail is from: > > Africa, East & Central > Mr. J.L. Sampat > P.O. Box 20428, > Kitwe,Zambia > e-mail: ronaksampat@hotmail.com > Website: http://panafrican-theos.org > Section formed 1947 > magazine: The Theosophical Light > > Probably somebody broke in the e-mail of the Africa and East Central > Panafrican T.S. and is using it to send e-mails with virus and about > sex etc. > > If anyone has contact with the above section in Zambia would be > interesting to communicate them about what is happening. > > Best wishes, > > Erica > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > -- Mark S. Hamilton Jr. waking.adept@gmail.com From ibse03888@blueyonder.co.uk Thu Jan 19 14:41:55 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: ibse03888@blueyonder.co.uk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89977 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2006 22:41:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2006 22:41:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-out6.blueyonder.co.uk) (195.188.213.9) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2006 22:41:53 -0000 Received: from your904q9zk0ar ([82.41.84.199]) by smtp-out6.blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 19 Jan 2006 22:38:17 +0000 Message-ID: <001d01c61d48$e682f230$c7542952@your904q9zk0ar> To: References: <80.36bf027b.310077e4@aol.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 22:37:16 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Return-Path: ibse03888@blueyonder.co.uk X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Jan 2006 22:38:17.0178 (UTC) FILETIME=[0A733BA0:01C61D49] X-Originating-IP: 195.188.213.9 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Iain" Subject: Re: Theos-World truth -- Re: Cool List of Facts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=182405197 Dear all,Origins of golf, remember it is flog spelled backwards, and Ladies even in medieval days played the game Mary Queen of Scots was a regular player and many othe ladies did likewise.But to others such as MARK TWAIN desribed the good game as "A good walk spoiled!" cheers from the ancestrial home of Golf and surround by the great courses of St Andrew, Carnoustie and Gleneagles Iain ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 5:04 AM Subject: Theos-World truth -- Re: Cool List of Facts > >> Golf History FAQ: Where Did the Word "Golf" Come From? >> From Brent Kelley, >> Your Guide to Golf. >> FREE Newsletter. Sign Up Now! >> Does it Stand for "Gentlemen Only, Ladies Forbidden"? >> Did the word "golf" originate as an acronym for "gentlemen only, ladies >> forbidden"? That's a common old wives' tale. Or, in this case, more >> likely an >> old husband's tale. >> No, "golf" is not an acronym for "gentlemen only, ladies forbidden." If >> you've ever heard that, forget it immediately. Better yet, find the >> person who >> told you and let them know it's not true. >> Like most modern words, the word "golf" derives from older languages and >> dialects. In this case, the languages in question are medieval Dutch and >> old >> Scots. >> The medieval Dutch word "kolf" or "kolve" meant "club." It is believed >> that >> word passed to the Scots, whose old Scots dialect transformed the word >> into >> "golve," "gowl" or "gouf." >> By the 16th Century, the word "golf" had emerged. >> Sources: British Golf Museum, USGA Library Back to Golf History FAQ >> Homepage >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > From silva_cass@yahoo.com Fri Jan 20 09:00:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21034 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2006 17:00:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jan 2006 17:00:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52101.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.104) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jan 2006 16:59:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 74450 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Jan 2006 14:12:01 -0000 Message-ID: <20060120141201.74448.qmail@web52101.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [211.28.165.96] by web52101.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 20 Jan 2006 06:12:01 PST Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 06:12:01 -0800 (PST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <79.545993f4.310021b5@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.104 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: [Mind and Brain] meaning and information X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=ycZcdhuxiePvQaRVlggjXTqhJGC571DHm3L5fl96G1WtUBr1VQ X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lenny What about the foetus, how does it react, before the brain is formed? Cass leonmaurer@aol.com wrote: Thought it might be helpful to see how theosophic= al thinking and reasoning,=20 along with a knowledge of its metaphysical science, can contend with skepti= cal=20 existential materialists and reductive scientists... In a message dated 1/9/06 6:12:58 AM, gevans613@aol.com writes: > In a message dated 09/01/2006 06:17:26 GMT Standard Time,=20 > leonmaurer@aol.com writes: > =EF=BF=BD > In a message dated 1/8/06 3:45:43 AM, glenswift@mindspring.com writes: > =EF=BF=BD > (snip) > =EF=BF=BD >=20 > (snip) =20 > Glen: > Every time someone talks about information or meaning being somewhere or= =20 > being transmitted somewhere or somehow, they are mistaken IMO. All that i= s=20 > happening (that they're describing) is the presence or movement of matter= and/or=20 > energy. > =EF=BF=BD > Here's an example. Let's say I see words on a piece of paper. What am I= =20 > actually seeing? Dry ink on paper; that's what I'm seeing. It is only by = virtue=20 > of my recognizing and interpreting the shapes of the letters that _gives_= =20 > meaning to what I see. I give meaning to what I see! The ink on the paper= does=20 > not contain either meaning or information. > =EF=BF=BD > Leon: > Also be nice if you could explain exactly how you recognize and interpre= t=20 > the meaning of the words and sentences that you see? It seems to me that = the=20 > information enabling you to do such things, is certainly encoded in those= =20 > words and sentences. Also, apparently, they would have to have some physi= cal=20 > means of getting from the paper to your individual center of perception a= nd=20 > discrimination. Where would that be, by the way? And, what would be the m= echanism=20 > of their transmission and transformation?=20 >=20 > Jud: The ability to recognise and extract the way in which the holism mus= t=20 > change the way that it exists [neuronally] is encoded in the brain meat -= not=20 > in the graphite particles on the page. In the same way it is the BRAIN wh= ich=20 > contains the information that the tree it sees is a tree - not the tree. >=20 [LM] The brain contains the encoded "information" of the optically detected= =20 images of the written words or the optical image of the tree, transmitted t= o=20 and through its neurological synapses from the retinas, solely as an=20 electromagnetic field transformation or its modulations. The brain "sees"= nothing --=20 since seeing or perceiving, as a capability of the mind and its zero-point= =20 center of consciousness, is a qualia that is experienced solely by that poi= nt of=20 individual "I AM" consciousness (which includes awareness, discernment,=20 discrimination, thought, understanding, will or intent, etc.)=20=20=20 So far science cannot explain, by reference to the neurological meat or=20 otherwise, what or where those properties or functions of consciousness are= , how=20 the individual self experiences them, or how the mind is bonded to the brai= n=20 meat. But, since they are there -- pictured in the mind and encoded in th= e=20 brain's em neurological field to be experienced and manipulated, changed, o= r=20 ignored -- they must, therefore, exist as objectively informative, albeit e= ncoded=20 images, to be eventually demodulated or decoded, differentiated, integrated= ,=20 and comprehended (as to their meaning) by the center of individual self=20 consciousness (referring to its memory or stored knowledge) whatever and wh= erever that=20 subjective experiential characteristic of the complex human organism is or= =20 may be located (i.e., transcendentally existent as an aspect and attribute = of=20 fundamental, or primal space that is beyond the metrics of our physical=20 space-time continuum).=20=20=20 The word "inform" by the way appears to be a compound of the words *in* and= =20 *form*. Therefore, the blueprint or encoded diagrams describing any=20 structural form -- whether pictured in the mind or communicated as words or= images on=20 screen or paper -- are necessarily "information" as and of itself.=20=20 Understanding the application or meaning of such information, then, must be= left entirely=20 to the consciously aware and willful thinker that discerns it ... NOT the=20 brain or its resultant em field that carries the encoded informative images= -- to=20 be ultimately transformed to its associated hyperspace mind field and from= =20 there to its zero-point center -- where it is decoded, experienced as quali= a,=20 and thought about, or differentiated and integrated by the individual=20 consciousness. > Glen: > People talk about information being carried by neurons, but that is=20 > incorrect also. What do we find inside neurons? Chemicals, molecules, ato= ms perhaps,=20 > and maybe even some free electrons. We give them names; we identify patte= rns=20 > of organization and activity; and we ascribe meaning to those things and= =20 > patterns. It is not information that is transmitted along an axon or acro= ss a=20 > synapse; just chemicals and electrons, and maybe what we perceive as=20 > electromagnetic waves or fields. But it is our interpretation of those th= ings which=20 > leads people to say that information is transmitted by neurons. > =EF=BF=BD > I can explain this further if I've not made this sufficiently clear. Can= =20 > anyone find an error in my thinking? > =EF=BF=BD > Cheers, Glen > =EF=BF=BD > Jud: > Excellent Glen! I have been saying this on this list for a long time. > =EF=BF=BD > Leon: > The error lies in the inability of such materialistic thinking to consid= er=20 > the actual nature of how those patterns of energy representing words on=20 > paper, auditory information, etc., are interpreted by our apparently sing= ular=20 > center of consciousness, that is also, apparently, non local, as well as = outside=20 > the realm of physical science to explain. > =EF=BF=BD > Jud: > It isn't done that way - no consciousness exists. A conscious human exis= ts.=20 > NOTHING is outside the realm of physics to explain [eventually] to those = who=20 > wish to hear the correct explanation. The /energy/ material simply arrang= es=20 > itself in patterns that can be recalled, rearranged, and compared with th= e=20 > new patterns prompted by new neuronal configurations. There is nothing=20 > *mysterious* about it [although certain people would be happier if it rem= ains=20 > *mysterious.* >=20 [LM] That's no explanation at all of HOW the brain goes about its supposed= =20 functions of "recall", "rearrangement", and "comparison" with new patterns,= etc.=20 -- which, to make any scientific or philosophical sense, requires a full=20 explanation of how the brain decodes those patterns, and "experiences" the = real=20 images they represent. Unfortunately, without such an explanation, the=20 "mystery" still remains. :-)=20 However, I'm certain that when the true explanation finally arrives, it wil= l=20 not be "mysterious" or supernatural at all... But will be based on perfectl= y=20 logical, reasonable and natural coenergetic and sub quantal field phenomena= --=20 as fully described in my ABC theory, and partially (with respect to ignorin= g=20 the hard problem of consciousness) described in Superstring/M-brane and qua= ntum=20 field theories.=20=20=20 It seems, however, that you are still stuck in your limited, materialistic= =20 definition of "existence," and thus can't see the trees for the forest. :-)= =20 > =EF=BF=BD > In other words; How does the information get from the transmitter to the= r > eceiver (i. e., from the object of perception to the perceiver)? > =EF=BF=BD > =EF=BF=BD > Jud: > Ask any TV engineer. The codes are carried by radio carrier waves as a=20 > series of signals, in a similar way that sound waves carry our voices in = normal=20 > conversation. >=20 [LM] I was not asking about the way the signals get from the camera to the= =20 picture tube, but how the holistic image on the retinas gets to the conscio= us=20 self that decodes, directly perceives and experiences, discerns, discrimina= tes,=20 differentiates, integrates, interprets, compares with prior knowledge -- an= d,=20 thereby, comprehends the "meaning" of it. Of course, the basic assumption= =20 behind such a question, is that there is no known or observable scientifica= lly=20 or technologically viable mechanisms in the brain that explains those=20 characteristics of human consciousness -- which, in my view, apparently exi= st as the=20 functions of a coadunate but not consubstantial field of human beness that = is=20 beyond (i.e., of a higher order or phase of frequency/energy) the observabl= e or=20 measurable physical and electrical fields of the brain, including the=20 observability of our entire metric space-time continuum -- such as the "sin= gularity"=20 in the center of a black hole or within its surrounding event barrier. = =20 It's interesting that this reasonable explanation of the invisible,=20 immeasurable, and otherwise unobservable coadunate but not consubstantial h= yperspace=20 fields of consciousness -- being subject to both electrical and gravitation= al=20 forces -- also explains the missing mass of the universe that quantum=20 cosmologists unknowingly call "dark matter," "strange attractors," or add t= o their=20 inaccurate equations as "gravitational constants," etc. Perhaps, someday i= n the=20 not to distant future, they will come to understand how far off the mark th= ey=20 were in describing the true nature of the universe and its fundamental dich= otomy=20 (separation in different aspects of fundamental space, yet mutual=20 interdependence) between subjective consciousness (awareness, ideation, wil= l) and=20 objective matter (energy, substance, mass).=20=20=20 This relational understanding, of course, completely undermines the basis o= f=20 all skepticism directed at those who intuitively grasp (although, often=20 mystically or supernaturally misinterpret) the true transcendental (in inti= mate=20 conjunction with the immanent) nature of universal reality -- or, as David = Bohm=20 might put it, the separation and conjunction of the implicate and explicate= =20 orders as a holistic unity. Unfortunately, those blind believers, relying s= olely=20 on their intuition or direct experience (which could be debunked as=20 hallucinations), can't defend their ideas against the counter arguments of = the skeptics. In any event, how can you say that the sound waves that carry our voice=20 modulations do not contain all the information delivered from one to anothe= r in our=20 conversation -- subject to later (after 40 microsecond delay by the brain)= =20 interpretation by our mind (in conjunction with its memory and the=20 awareness-will of its zero-point) as to meaning and understanding? Since = when can we=20 conflate explanatory "information" with meaning or interpretation? Isn't = it=20 apparent that information is intermediary between conceptual or ideational= =20 expression and comprehensible or tangible impression -- i.e., that which is= contained=20 in the literal or figurative explanation or "blueprint," between the ideati= on=20 of a structure and the structure itself? Apparently, information can be=20 imparted to us... But, our understanding of its meaning, must be left to ou= r=20 conscious interpretation based on our individual intelligence, knowledge, a= nd=20 wisdom. All intangible, yet nevertheless, existent in our minds and memorie= s.=20 > What carries that information? > =EF=BF=BD > Jud: > Radio waves carry the signals,but it is NOT *information* It only become= s=20 > meaningful and informative to the informed recipient. In the same way the= =20 > reflected photons from a tree only become meaningful when the tree is see= n by=20 > human eyes >=20 [LM] Nevertheless, for anything expressed, either directly as reflected=20 light, or indirectly as an analog such as a radio wave, brain wave, etc. --= to=20 become informative (i.e., understood), it must contain valid "information" = that is=20 transmitted between the informer and the informed -- through whatever means= =20 applied -- whether directly between the object of perception and the percei= ver,=20 or indirectly through modulation and demodulation between eye and brain,=20 brain and mind, mind and awareness, etc. I can't imagine why a viewer of = a=20 television show or movie needs prior information to comprehend the meaning = of what=20 he sees and hears, other than a knowledge of language and a memory of prior= =20 experiences of seeing the pictured things and beings in real life. The=20 information the picture and soundtrack contains either informs him or it do= esn't,=20 depending on his prior knowledge and ability to discern, discriminate, comp= are,=20 etc.=20 > =EF=BF=BD > How do you explain the transmission and transformation or encoding of th= e=20 > objective information (e.g., color, shape, form, size, distance, etc.) fr= om=20 > the image on the retina to the image in the mind? And, after that, how do= you=20 > explain the interpretation of that image, as well as its relationship to= =20 > similar images, identically encoded in memory -- so as to determine its m= eaning or=20 > gain an understanding of what it actually is or represents? > =EF=BF=BD > Jud: > There is no *information* The eye is an exterior component of the brain = -=20 > it changes the configuration of the way it exists in the same way as the = rest=20 > of the brain as it extrapolates the incoming photons as they hit and=20 > penetrate its surface. The way the eye changes is picked up by the neuron= al=20 > brain-meat which compares the way the eye is now existing which copies of= previous=20 > ways in which it existed and BINGO! >=20 [LM] I still question what is it that enables the brain-meat to "compare" t= he=20 way the eyes previously existed with the way they respond to current=20 information impressed on their retinas? How does the meat experience (fee= l, see,=20 know) the difference? Where is the memory (which also must exist) of that= =20 previous existence of the eyes stored? How is it retrieved and subsequent= ly=20 interpreted by the brain, mind or consciousness? Where is that mind or=20 consciousness located? How are they interconnected? There are so many una= nswered=20 questions that belie your simplistic explanation -- which is no information= at all=20 -- that I could go on forever.:-) BTW, if the eye changes, then doesn't=20 whatever causes that change exist in various degrees of (similarly existing= )=20 modulations of the particular information contained in the photons? Seems= to me=20 that there are existence's within existence's, and that some of them are=20 intangible or transcendental, yet still capable of determining phenomenal c= hanges in=20 tangible existence's.=20=20=20 > =EF=BF=BD > Could we not say, then -- when the electromagnetic radiation from a TV=20 > antenna carries an FM signal (of a lecture for example) and transmits it = from the=20 > station to our receiver for further processing and transformation into th= e=20 > moving picture and sound we directly (or indirectly from another POV)=20 > experience -- that such transfer of imagery, on both audio and visual lev= els, is of=20 > the same order as the electrochemical modulation of a sense "image" (sigh= t or=20 > sound) carried by a neuron chain and transmitted to the brain for further= =20 > processing, transformation, demodulation, detection, discernment, etc.? > =EF=BF=BD > Jud: > At first glance I agree with you - Yes. > =EF=BF=BD > The same thing may apply when we consider words on paper that first have= to=20 > be detected and electrochemically transformed on the retina, then=20 > transmitted as symbols to the brain, so as to be further transformed into= the images=20 > perceived by our consciousness or awareness, and further discriminated as= to=20 > their meaning, through reference to our knowledge stored in our memory. > =EF=BF=BD > If such is the actual case, then it seems obvious to me that the modulat= ed=20 > signal of the sense image. > =EF=BF=BD > Jud: > There are no existing=EF=BF=BD*sense images* only the sensing sensor. >=20 [LM] No? Then, what is it that modulates the changes in the sensors (rods= ,=20 cones, etc.) that enables them to transfer that portion of the "image" they= =20 sense to the brain's electrochemical neural network -- so as to be reassemb= led=20 and transformed back to a composite virtual image replica of the original=20 object that is perceived (experienced) by the singular center of conscious= =20 awareness? Where does that inner light we ultimately experience as a "sen= se image"=20 come from? In your world of existential materialism, how can it exist if= =20 there are no photon transmitters or receptors in the brain's meat to receiv= e and=20 experience them as an assembled virtual image after their converted signals= =20 leave the retina? Or, are you caught in the trap of naive realism?=20 > =EF=BF=BD > =EF=BF=BD > =EF=BF=BD... carried by the neuron chain must be the encoded basis of th= e final=20 > information (if not the information itself) that is directly experienced = and=20 > interpreted into meaningful images by our individual consciousness -- wit= h=20 > direct reference to our short and long term memory banks. > =EF=BF=BD > =EF=BF=BD > Jud: > If you wish to call the newly changed configurational condition of the=20 > brain's meaty-bits *information* you are free to do so. > =EF=BF=BD > In my view, then, it is also obvious that the consciousness (considered = as=20 > awareness, discrimination, will, etc.) is entirely separate from the neur= al=20 > mechanisms that transmits and transforms the modulated image information= =20 > itself. > =EF=BF=BD > =EF=BF=BD > Jud: > There is no: *consciousness, awareness, discrimination, knowingness,=20 > sentience, cognisance etc. There exists only he or she who is conscious, = aware,=20 > discriminatory, knowing, sentient, cognisive etc. >=20 [LM] Nit picking nonsense -- in the face of human capabilities of their=20 consciousness that exists, at least for the purpose of serious (as well as = farcical=20 :-) discussion, as ideas in the field of their minds and thoughts. To=20 paraphrase Descartes... I am conscious of my thoughts, therefore I exist, a= s does=20 my thinking, knowing, cognition, sentience, awareness, discernment,=20 discrimination, etc.=20 > =EF=BF=BD > If that is so, then the only practical way such information can be store= d=20 > and integrated with other memories, is as holographic wave interference=20 > patterns on the surface of an electromagnetic field (or fields) that are = of a=20 > higher order than the intermediate electromagnetic field of the brain (wh= ere the=20 > intermediate holographic imagery must first be modulated after being proc= essed=20 > by its neurology). This material stage, then, must be followed by further= =20 > transformation and processing on a transcendent level of intermediate (be= tween=20 > objective physical matter and subjective consciousness) hyperspace (*Astr= o=20 > biological coenergetic*) fields consisting of higher orders of electromag= netic=20 > energy. > =EF=BF=BD > Jud: > No, no, no, no. That's utter fantasy I am afraid. >=20 [LM] I could just as well say that in reference to your unfounded denials o= f=20 what I think actually exists in both physical and transcendental reality --= =20 based on your mistaken belief that nothing exists other than tangible and=20 measurable matter -- which mysteriously, without any logical or reasonable= =20 explanation, exhibits all the characteristics of consciousness and cognitio= n.=20=20 > =EF=BF=BD > *-* http://www.tellworld.com/Astro.Biological.Coenergetics/ > =EF=BF=BD > In addition, the meaning attributed to that information would depend on = the=20 > interpretation of a singular zero-point of consciousness that is capable = of=20 > projecting a coherent energy wave that reconstructs the holographic=20 > information, and by reflection, detects and observes such an image and ca= n attribute=20 > meaning by direct reference to and comparison with its surrounding coadun= ate=20 > but not consubstantial higher order memory fields -- similarly detected a= nd=20 > decoded. > =EF=BF=BD > This implies that there is a "third eye" and "third ear" located at the= =20 > zero-point center of the overall modulated brain field directly behind th= e eyes=20 > and between the ears to receive, demodulate and discern the visual and=20 > auditory "information" carried, transmitted and transformed as holographi= c=20 > interference patterned imagery by the brains neural system. > =EF=BF=BD > Of course, to thoroughly understand the above aspect of my view of=20 > "information theory" and the mechanisms of perception, discrimination, di= scernment,=20 > understanding, intent, etc., you will have to acknowledge that consciousn= ess=20 > is the attribute of the zero-point of "absolute (or eternally empty) spac= e"=20 > that is at the origin of every universal field of matter-energy. And, tha= t this=20 > non-local and immeasurable point is outside of all metric time and=20 > dimensional space. In addition, it should be understood that all "informa= tion"=20 =3D=3D=3D message truncated =3D=3D=3D =09=09 --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos =96 Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover Photo Books. You design it and we=92ll bind it! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From leonmaurer@aol.com Fri Jan 20 11:52:43 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31808 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2006 19:52:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Jan 2006 19:52:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jan 2006 19:52:41 -0000 Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.266.45cde8a (3310) for ; Fri, 20 Jan 2006 14:33:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <266.45cde8a.31029512@aol.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 14:33:38 EST To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Thunderbird - Mac OS X sub 310 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.144.208 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: leonmaurer@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: [Mind and Brain] meaning and information X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972; y=u55Dt6dSKAzuy-DnT9MXtT_YDli7_COoaWgmP_V1bk04-bbNdyQ X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cass, Check your previous quote from Isis Unveiled where HPB explains instinct in lower life forms (i.e., cells and organs of fetus) as an aspect of universal consciousness. From a metaphysical scientific POV (ref: ABC theory) -- such instinctive consciousness has no need for a brain to react to impulses from its environment. In such primative forms, their surrounding, transformative, 7 fold (coadunate but not consubstantial) fields of consciousness exist, as does their zero-points of receptive awareness and responsive will -- that can act in accord with the instinctive or archetypal memories carried in their highest order field, which is linked directly to the univeral memory fieid (or akasha, in theosophical terms). Lenny In a message dated 1/20/06 12:00:38 PM, silva_cass@yahoo.com writes: > Lenny > What about the foetus, how does it react, before the brain is formed? > Cass > > leonmaurer@aol.com wrote: Thought it might be helpful to see how > theosophical thinking and reasoning, along with a knowledge of its metaphysical science, > can contend with skeptical > existential materialists and reductive scientists... > (snip) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Fri Jan 20 17:41:27 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30058 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2006 01:41:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jan 2006 01:41:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52110.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.113) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2006 01:41:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 51657 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Jan 2006 01:34:26 -0000 Message-ID: <20060121013425.51655.qmail@web52110.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [211.28.165.96] by web52110.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 20 Jan 2006 17:34:25 PST Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 17:34:25 -0800 (PST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <266.45cde8a.31029512@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.113 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: [Mind and Brain] meaning and information X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=NToSQQUAR0m-_Y5sEGGL0U78TSQo0bxkiq1sF6d6WwfeDoLW5g X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Leon, I was actually referring to the neurological question that was raised in the mindspring group. Especially in relation to retina connection as the foetus has no eye contact with the world, yet reacts to stimulus from that (unseen from the foetus pov) world. I was trying to make the point that it is the mind and not the brain that translates the world of the foetus. Cass leonmaurer@aol.com wrote: Cass, Check your previous quote from Isis Unveiled where HPB explains instinct in lower life forms (i.e., cells and organs of fetus) as an aspect of universal consciousness. From a metaphysical scientific POV (ref: ABC theory) -- such instinctive consciousness has no need for a brain to react to impulses from its environment. In such primative forms, their surrounding, transformative, 7 fold (coadunate but not consubstantial) fields of consciousness exist, as does their zero-points of receptive awareness and responsive will -- that can act in accord with the instinctive or archetypal memories carried in their highest order field, which is linked directly to the univeral memory fieid (or akasha, in theosophical terms). Lenny In a message dated 1/20/06 12:00:38 PM, silva_cass@yahoo.com writes: > Lenny > What about the foetus, how does it react, before the brain is formed? > Cass > > leonmaurer@aol.com wrote: Thought it might be helpful to see how > theosophical thinking and reasoning, along with a knowledge of its metaphysical science, > can contend with skeptical > existential materialists and reductive scientists... > (snip) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Got holiday prints? 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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From leonmaurer@aol.com Fri Jan 20 20:02:42 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39789 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2006 04:02:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jan 2006 04:02:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m28.mx.aol.com) (64.12.137.9) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2006 04:02:41 -0000 Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.26b.460ef9f (3310) for ; Fri, 20 Jan 2006 23:02:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <26b.460ef9f.31030c54@aol.com> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 23:02:28 EST To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Thunderbird - Mac OS X sub 310 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 64.12.137.9 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: leonmaurer@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Re: Re: Science vs. Theosophy X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972; y=Rq7VbpUCzucZv3L349T_0R-tbB6KchKNPAtbHnF05qvePymgF-E X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/18/06 11:26:37 PM, silva_cass@yahoo.com writes: > Hello Lenny > > Sitting on my back verandah having coffee this morning, I contemplated the > attributes/qualities/makeup of Parabrahma which led me to > > Parabrahma - the eternal, "dwelling alone in chaos" completely self > sufficient, instinctively desires self conscious existence. This self conscious > existence takes the form of Brahma - a creative emanation of Parabrahma, " > Perceiving such a dismal state of things, Brahma solioquizes in consternation: > "Who am I" "Whence came I?" Then he hears a voice: "Direct your prayer to > Bhavavant - the Eternal, known, also, as Parabrahma." Brahma, rising from his > natatory position, seats himself upon the lotus in an attitude of contemplation, > and reflects upon the Eternal, who, pleased with this evidence of piety, > disperses the primeval darkness and opens his understanding. "After this Brahma > issues from the universal egg - (infinite chaos) as light, for his > understanding is now opened, and he sets himself to work; he moves on the eternal > waters, with the spirit of God within himself; in his capacity of mover of the > waters he is Narayana." Isis P91 > > Is this the Divine Trinity - Parabrahma (Unconscious chaos) - Brahma > (subconscious chaos) and Narayana?( made up of unconscious,sub consciousness and and > self conscious energy). I am not using unconscious in a psychlogical sense > but in the sense of a consciousness unknown to us. > [Len] I would say that's a reasonable observation, using the theosophical jargon... That, incidentally, I'm loath to do These days, as I like to talk about these subjects using the "language of this age" (as HPB advised)... Mainly, since that's how the theosophical ideas can reach today's scientists, and in turn, the ordinary people who follow their pronouncements (true or false :-) about the nature of reality. > This expanding 'unconscious'/subconscious duality (Parabrahma/Brahma) still > produced a "dismal state of things" until Narayana is emanated from Brahma. > > > Getting to my point, Parabrahma as Divine Instinct, Divine Will, Divine > Awareness, in its eternal condition of chaos, must have DESIRED self > consciousness or self expression, of itself, from within. Its coadunate but not > consubstantial descending field of consciousness. > > This suggests to me that Divine Instinct or Desire, precedes Will and > Awareness? > [Len] I agree. In the SD, HPB teaches that the awakening of Brahma from Parabrahm is empowered by the "desire for life" or, as you say, desire for "self consciousness or self expression." (Not being a scholar in the usual sense, I have no references -- but I'm sure Dallas or Daniel could supply them if asked.) > > Could not find the passage in The Secret Doctrine you referred to. Please > excuse my clumsy wording. > [Len] I didn't refer to a particular passage... But, since that's what I learned in my study of the SD, I'm sure those theosophical scholars mentioned above could find one or more references to confirm it (if we can't find them ourselves by searching its index). Nothing to forgive about your so called "clumsy wording" -- since that's what usually happens when one tries to explain theosophical ideas in English and has to intersperse it with theosophical jargon words borrowed from a foreign language used in a foreign religious philosophy that requires a glossary to understand their true meanings. HPB had the same problem, and even complained about it in the Introduction to the SD. :-) BTW, it's also a problem I have... Since, I often am forced to use the technical jargon of today's physical sciences to explain ABC and its metaphysics to non scientifically educated laymen -- that sometimes make my explanations appear clumsy and overly wordy or dense to them. This also comes about since much of metaphysics can only be explained symbolically by word pictures that hopelessly tries to show how multidimensional fields fractally involve and interface holistically and co-energetically with each other on different planes of substantiality -- without using the completely obscure multidimensional mathematics and geometry's of string and quantum field theories... Most of which even I, along with most conventional physicists, haven't the faintest understanding of. :-) Best wishes and fond regards, Len > > Regards > Cass > > leonmaurer@aol.com wrote: Hi Cass, > > Thanks for your quote and perceptive/provocative question -- enabling me to > clarify these theosophically and scientifically consistent ideas a bit > further. > > As I see it, "awareness" (root of perception) and "will" (empowerment of > desire, intent, and subsequent action) are the fundamental functions of the > zero-point of universal origin -- which is the rootless root and source of > empowerment of all fields of consciousness that emanate and fractally > involve from its > encircling angular momentum or "spinergy." This "G-force," which also > includes the Akasha or eternal universal memory, is the root of all > coadunate but > not consubstantial descending fields of consciousness -- the lowest and most > dense of which is our physical matter-energy space-time continuum. > > Since this zero-point is also the foundation and center of all beings and > their seven fold natures (analogous to the fractally involved universal > fields > described in the ABC model) -- these potential functions are all pervasive > within all forms throughout the universe. > > On our physical plane, in the lower forms of inert matter, they are simply > dormant potentialities. But in the living or organic beings, they become > expressed first, in the lower forms as "reflexive" responses to their > environment, > or as "instincts" in the intermediate forms (vegetable kingdom)... > Progressing > later, in the higher forms (animal kingdom) as inbred instincts that > includes > perceptive awareness and reactive will... Until it finally reaches the > highest state of self consciousness (perceptive awareness, discernment, > discrimination, recollection, recall, imagination, differentiation, > integration, decision, > free will, etc.) that we experience as human beings. > > All of this was initially explained by HPB in Isis Unveiled, as you > quoted... > And later, more fully expanded in the Secret Doctrine. > > Warm regards, > > Lenny > > > In a message dated 1/14/06 1:38:25 AM, silva_cass@yahoo.com writes: > > > > Hello Leon > > Read this in Isis Unveiled P425, "Instinct, as a divine spark, lurks in > the > > unconscious nerve-centre of the ascidian mollusk, and manifests itself at > the > > first stage of action of its nervous system as what the physiologist terms > > the reflex action.D+A"D$B".(B It exists in the lowest classes of the acephalous > animals > > as well as in those that have distinct heads; it grows and develops > according > > to the law of the double evolution, physically and spiritually; and > entering > > upon its conscious stage of development and progress in the cephalous > > species already endowed with a sensorium and symetrically-arranged > ganglia, this > > reflex action, whether men of science term it automatic, as in the lowest > > species, or instinctive, as in the more complex organisms which act under > the > > guidance of the sensorium and the stimulus originating in distinct > sensation, is > > still one and the same thing.D+A"D$B".(B It is the divine instinct in its > ceaseless > > progress of development. > > > > Is what you term "awareness and will" is this instinct? > > > > Cass > > (snip) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Sat Jan 21 04:52:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87448 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2006 12:52:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jan 2006 12:52:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.70) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2006 12:52:30 -0000 Received: from [216.175.69.13] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1F0IAQ-0005Vk-El; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 07:48:34 -0500 To: Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 04:47:58 -0800 Message-ID: <018101c61e88$ec5692c0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <015001c61d62$fc128330$0a0110ac@DALLAS> X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec794fb5b485ee253fdc80749bd0316b7af5350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE Psychology of Mind and will in the light of Karma and reincarnation X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=3eEDPbm9UspUnKe7rbAbjLEvi0bRPjseSPuxUbdWG12ldw X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit January 21, 2006 I think this is valuable to study. Psychology of Mind and will in the light of Karma and reincarnation Best wishes, Dal =================================== EVERYDAY QUESTIONS ON PATANJALI'S YOGA APHORISMS Vol. 35 p. 227 APHORISMS 33, 35-45 (Book I): What is the function of the VIRTUES in the attainment of Soul-knowledge? A contrast between the Christian idea of the virtues and Patanjali's treatment would be helpful. The fundamental distinction between Patanjali's "virtues" and those traditionally associated with Christianity clearly lies in the fact that for Patanjali "benevolence" and "tenderness" are means to the end of individual mastery over everything from the "atomic to the infinite." The Christian seems to have a historic propensity for regarding the virtues as ends in themselves, or at least, as attainments which automatically bring the reward of a completely passive existence in heaven. It is probably significant that Patanjali makes no emotional appeal whatsoever in favor of the virtues, once again unlike enthusiastic Christian hot-gospellers. The attainment of virtues in Patanjali's terms seems a rather matter-of-fact necessity, part of establishing sufficient self-control for the accomplishment of the further "ends" of evolution. Each virtue depends, Patanjali implies, upon an understanding of the laws applicable to each psychical and mental division of man's nature. A "virtue" is therefore like an ability to typewrite forty words a minute-an author can make good use of such a "virtue," but only, in the final analysis, if he has something important to say through the medium he has mastered. In the strictest sense, then, the virtues are not "accomplishments" in themselves, nor in fact guarantees of accomplishments. They represent stages of self-control without which accomplishments cannot be made-simply because clarity and objectivity of mind are imperative. Aphorism 10: Is there a way for us to go to SLEEP by force of will? If so, there must be a way to die by force of will. Can this be the fact? Sleep is not to be attained by the direct force of will in the case of ordinary men, although the high adept may paralyze his lower principles by an act of will-"put them to sleep," so to speak. But anyone can will to rest, knowing that rest is necessary, and sleep will follow the subduing of restless energies which at the moment need rehabilitation rather than strained exercise. Sleep is the force of All Life, working preservatively and regeneratively rather than creatively-not a force rooted in the individual. Death is similar in this respect, yet it would take a great Yogi indeed to know with surety that all karmic opportunities of a lifetime had been exhausted in a manner corresponding to the instinct which often enables a man to know when sleep is justifiable. The ending of a life has a semi-finality in karmic terms which the ending of a day does not. The same personality cannot be called forth in exact duplication ever again after death, while in sleep the innumerable threads of personality remain unbroken. Therefore for one to say he is "through with life," in its present context, implies a complete knowledge of karma-a knowledge which apparently even great adepts do not claim. Aphorism 4 states that except during concentration, "the soul is in the same form as the modification of the mind." Does this mean that to keep the soul in a pure state, it would be well not to expose the mind to the contemplation of anything unpleasant? And if so, does not this savor of the ideas of Christian Science? Might it not encourage a drawing away from contacts with the end in view of not contaminating the Soul? How can the work of aiding suffering humanity be accomplished while we are so concerned with keeping the Soul from being affected by the Mind, the brain, the senses? It is very evidently true that the soul cannot exist in a state of full concentration if the mind is affected by something "unpleasant." But the whole meaning of the state of full concentration-which is simply the state of balance-lies in its definition as an awareness so acute that no-thing seems unpleasant (or pleasant, either, in the usual highly personal sense). The Christian Scientist denies the existence of the various real things which he is afraid he will have to view as "unpleasant" if he allows himself to view them at all. He seeks to escape the fear of "evil" by avoidance. The "Yogi of time's duration" meets directly all apparent evil, and conquers its potentially corrupting effect by understanding rather than avoidance. This is the only satisfactory "escape from evil" and it is accomplished only in the mental state called "concentration" by Patanjali. It might be said that the Sage, instead of seeing "pleasantness" or "unpleasantness," sees in all events and beings only various degrees of significance. Aphorism 46: "The mental changes described in the foregoing constitute meditation with its seed." "Meditation with its seed" is often used in the connotation of very concentrated, but personal thinking. Is not here a very subtle form of selfishness, which is accompanied by an anticipation of consequences? Aphorism 44, preceding, is a definitive statement from Patanjali that in meditation with its seed "the object selected for meditation" may be "of a higher nature than sensuous objects." A practical ideal to be realized, then, as for instance a specific social improvement, may be clarified and given deeper significance by concentration during meditation. Nothing necessary in the furtherance of growth can be accurately regarded as selfish. Selfishness may be said to enter, in the case of those who "meditate" concentratedly upon a specific human or social need, only when the desire of the individual to be the revered and recognized agent of such improvement is added to the desire for the accomplishment itself. So, in endeavoring to establish the nature of "selfishness" and "unselfishness" as related to meditation, the line of demarcation must be seen to be not between "meditation with its seed" and "meditation without a seed," but rather in the nature of the "seed." For there is obviously, in Patanjali's own terms, a necessity for both types of meditation. "Meditation without a seed," or with only the subtle seed of egoic isolation and perfection, might be the exclusive state of none but the Dharmakayas, who apparently have finished with all desire to work for and through the world. Yet this state, the state of abstract objectivity-possibly symbolized by Pythagoras in his insistence that his disciples concentrate on mathematics-is necessary for all men: it affords impersonal balance to their "meditations" upon the specific things their destiny will impel them to accomplish. "Anticipation of consequences," for instance, is required for the most thoughtful efforts in mankind's behalf, yet to prevent that anticipation from being either fearfully or greedily personal the interposition of periods of "abstract meditation" becomes an indispensable aid. ================================================================ EVERYDAY QUESTIONS ON PATANJALI'S YOGA APHORISMS Vol. 35, p. 262 BREATH regulation is frequently referred to in Book II. Theosophical teachings definitely warn against this hatha yoga practice. Is not Patanjali accounted a real teacher? How explain? And how, as on page 35, Aphorism 50, could the regulation of the breath be restricted by conditions of time, place, and number, each of which may be long or short? Just as it is possible to do a great many things with atomic energy, so does Patanjali say that many things can be accomplished by psycho-physiological control. Breathing practices, however, are but one method of attaining psychical discipline, and as H. P. Blavatsky pointedly observes in Isis Unveiled (II, 635), they are not a natural or normal method for Western peoples. Patanjali was an Eastern teacher, concerned with the peculiar psychical temperament of the East of his time. An identical psycho-physiological equation may never exist in the West, nor may special breathing exercises, as a "technique," ever become an appropriate discipline in this cycle of accelerated Manasic evolution. Patanjali introduces the subject of "breath-control" as a legitimate object for practical study (even for Hindus) only after "purification of the mind" (see Aphorism 41) has been attained. It becomes entirely natural to assume that when a disciple has mastered all the usual quixotic quandaries of the dual human mind, on that plane, he may wish to "stretch" the usefulness of his physiological organism, thus making a more refined medium for the use of soul and mind power. Breath control means control over those semi-astral nerve centres which maintain the normal tone of physiological existence involuntarily. Conscious control over these same functions can therefore be thought of as introducing a new dimension of occult receptivity to what is otherwise simply the average psycho-physiological equation. There are "times and conditions," according to Patanjali, presumably in accordance with the necessity for various phases of practical occultism, when such control over the hitherto "involuntary" centres is not only helpful but actually necessary, though this type of control may be attained in more than one way. The repeated warnings against Hatha Yoga practices are a cognizance of this fact, and Easterners are also directed against premature attention to a phase of control which does not find rightful usage until the basic principles of Raja Yoga have been assimilated. ===================================================== Aphorism 18 (Book II) reads: "The Universe, including the visible and the invisible, the essential nature of which is compounded of purity, action, and rest, and which consists of the elements and the organs of action, exists for the sake of the soul's experience and emancipation." This is a very interesting and no doubt deeply significant statement on the "essential nature" of the Universe, but the terms "purity, action, and rest" need some elaboration for the average student in order to convey a description of the Universe: can this be done? "Purity," "action" and "rest," in universal terms, are suggestive of the three fundamental propositions of the Secret Doctrine. Purity is simply that which is indivisible. In man, and in all monadic intelligence, the "indivisible" is the inextinguishable power to acquire experience. Action is the process of interweaving one being's use of this power with the differing uses made by other beings of the same power. The "law of cycles," universal aspect of the Second Proposition, is descriptive of that type of "interweaving" among beings which results in periodical embodiment. "Rest" has only one dynamic meaning, that of assimilation, and assimilation is the keynote of the Third Proposition. Any "description of the universe," however, is of necessity inadequate unless it is perceived to be directly applicable to the psychological life of the individual. In the life of mind-consciousness, "purity" and "action" cannot be separated, for "purity" in the moral sense always means a relatively perfect degree of conscious motion-not immobility or inaction. Rest, in an evolutionary sense, becomes reflection upon the nature of action-and its various degrees of purity. This is the only real rest, for it lessens inner tensions by conveying an even deeper evaluative power to the soul. What is the peculiar value of Aphorism 6? How could this fact affect a man's life and character? Aphorism 6 of Book II may become more specifically instructive if considered with Aphorism 6 of Book III. Identifying "the power that sees with the power of seeing," and the soul with its tools of perception (including the mind) leads to a "fixation" with regard to "modifications of the mind." In Aphorism 6, Book III, the implication that it will finally be necessary to do away with all "modifications of the mind" means that no formulation of words in philosophy, nor any specific religious devotion, will ever in any final sense represent Truth. The disciplines of philosophy, of course, are supposedly self-initiated, while the disciplines of religion are required by authority or by temporary acceptance of an occult Teacher or transmitter, but all disciplines, whether philosophical or religious are "modifications of the mind" and therefore can but represent partial truth. The mind able to look directly upon realities can use no intermediate form or focus whatsoever, as each form or focus becomes the modifier of the object to be perceived. Every formulation of philosophy, every metaphysical system, every scheme of the categories of "reality," will at some time be discarded as a particular, and therefore a limiting, focus for Truth. As Krishna says, when the heart is free from delusion, the disciple will "attain to high indifference as to those doctrines which are already taught or which are yet to be taught." Even the familiar statements of the Three Fundamental Propositions of the Secret Doctrine, as approaches to the several facets of reality, must finally give way to a formless realization of THAT for which the Fundamentals are abstract "representations." Every noble habit, painstakingly acquired as the very highest embodiment of devotion to one's fellows, must be abandoned as a habit or specific practice. The essences of the noble philosophies and religions, however, will live on in pure form, or rather, formlessness, in the same way that the individual ego itself is said to outlive the destruction of worlds, solar systems and even universes. ========================================================== EVERYDAY QUESTIONS ON PATANJALI'S YOGA APHORISMS Vol. 35, p. 318 APHORISM 9 (Book II) : I can not see how any basic drive of human life could be felt by the wise as by the unwise. I can not believe that the wise could possibly be held in a worn-out body so long as are, or have been, the unwise. What is the relation between Tanha and Skandhas? The "wise" man is the man who has gradually established sympathetic understanding with every form of intelligence-including the "lower" as well as the "higher." It is the nature of purely psychophysical intelligence to focus nearly all energy upon the continuance of existence, because that particular organic complex can only be enlightened by higher intelligence so long as it shall live. This is the physical instinct for preservation, and it is normal and beneficial. The "wise" man not only "feels" this, as it exists in his own physical instrument-he will feel it more keenly than anyone else, because he is more understanding and sympathetic toward "life" in particular and as a whole. Nor will he sacrifice the body lightly. The difference between the wise and the unwise in respect to "thirst for life" lies in the fact that the wise are not subject to this feeling-they simply feel it, whereas the unwise, possessing "misconceptions of duties and responsibilities" allow the feelings of the body to eclipse the needs of the soul. No wise man is completely indifferent to the matter of preserving his life upon earth-the suicides are not the "wise" but those so tragically confused that they feel nothing with clarity. There is more than considerable difference between an ability to detach oneself, when necessary, from a feeling, and the tamasic state of living in an indifferent stupor in regard to all feelings. Physical "Tanha" can be very properly expressed as physical dynamism and intensity, without developing the skandhas which signify fear of death or any other ignoble physical cravenness. Yet just as death should not be feared, but rather respected, so should life not be feared. The wise man is the man possessed of a maximum of intensity on every plane; he should be distinguished by his deeper appreciation of every form of beauty, for instance, including the beauty and magic of physical vitality. Aphorism 16: (a) Do our imaginations and fears for the future cause any injury to the soul, other than waste of time and energy? (b) Is Mr. Crosbie's statement on page 8 of The Friendly Philosopher, "I used to look calmly and dispassionately at the very worst picture I could conjure up as happening to myself," etc., to be regarded as contradictory to this Aphorism? (a) For man as Kshatriya or actor, there are two realities. The present moment is real, and eternal verities are real. Fear, as Patanjali endeavors to show, is invariably rooted in "illusion," a realm between the Present and the Eternal. No one fears the present moment, but fears instead moments not yet come. All that he may do in any moment is act, and while he acts there is room within his consciousness only for action and not for fear. Nor can anyone fear anything measured against the infinite background of eternity. Neither the moment nor eternity relate themselves to the countless numbers of "uncertain desires" which crowd the human mind. Uncertain desires relate only to an illusory sense of time, whereas now, the sphere of action, is an ultimate reality. Fear distorts human relationships, for emotionalism renders potential philosophical attitudes inoperative. If a situation we have feared confronts us, we view it not as it actually is, but as warped by our fright and fancy. Thus fears alter the being himself so far as his existence as an effective center of action is concerned, and constantly affect all others with whom he comes in contact. For the evolving ego this alteration of psychic condition is a very specific injury, for it is a limitation on growth. His own karmic "circle of necessity" becomes more complicated, since the conditioning effect of his fears blocks any natural or balanced working out of his destiny. He is sundered, disparted, acts in hesitant fragmentary fashion, and therefore reaps fragmentary, confusing karma. Patanjali's "meditation" is a term for the internal acts which establish a true relationship between the individual student and the events and beings that become relevant to his own soul pilgrimage. This, Patanjali suggests, is accomplished by excluding from meditation the confused feelings which comprise the innumerable conflicts of mind on matters not presently resolvable. The practice of mental discipline leads to the attainment of philosophy, and philosophy is to be judged in turn by action-by the degree to which it impels the individual to live fully in each moment while yet overshadowed by a sense of eternity. (b) Robert Crosbie's statement seems clearly to be a way of laying fears to rest rather than a way of indulging in them by pre-occupation. This method in the strictest sense is a device for dealing with any hidden fears that might lurk within the subconscious mind. As a device it is but one practical means to an end, and, like all devices, it should ultimately be dropped by the proper wayside. Any specific discipline must be transcended, however necessary it may once have been. If this particular practice were made a ritual for daily use it could lead to a psychological unbalance but one step removed from the original lurking worries. The hypochondriac is an example of one who misapplies the suggested method, for the hypochondriac often imagines the most dire physical happenings, while deriving secret pleasure from the fact that he really does not believe his actual situation will ever be "that bad." Such a distortion of the method would, however, be a way of trying to achieve a relative, external calmness by indulging in a specialized kind of controlled worry. Mr. Crosbie's intent was obviously to test the extent and nature of his inner calmness-and to better evaluate whatever final obstacles remained to bar its complete attainment. Are not Aphorisms 23 and 24 somewhat contradictory? If "the conjuncture of the soul with the organ of thought, and thus with nature, is the cause of its apprehension of the actual condition of the nature of the Universe and of the soul itself," is this not highly desirable? If so, why should the cause of this conjuncture be quitted, as stated in Aphorism 24? And further, how can ignorance, cause of all the "afflictions," lead to such a noble result? This question might be paraphrased: "Is evolution desirable, since one of the conditions of evolution is the incomplete knowledge of all the beings involved?" The English language seems lacking in appropriate terms to distinguish between evolution impelled by the trial and error process which accompanies ignorance, and completely self-directed evolution. The organ of thought is composed of the physical and the astral brains. These material foci are necessary as direct contact-points for the soul in journeying through those realms of experience which the simultaneous presence of myriads of differing classes of monads make possible for the soul. In the strictest sense the self-conscious man, or the monad, is not "ignorant," yet while in manifestation the man can not exhaust the infinite variety and significance of experience in the whole vast society of selves. Obviously the word "ignorance" carries with it differing implications according to its context. In the most universal philosophical sense it is simply the symbol of unfulfilled or uncompleted destiny-the impulsion to a further growth which may finally bring spiritual understanding. But ignorance is also a symbol for the degree to which the inertia of matter unnecessarily retards the widening of soul-perception. This "ignorance" ceases, says Patanjali, with the attainment of "perfect discriminative knowledge." "The isolation of the soul" mentioned in Aphorism 25 means that the soul is no longer confused or involved in acts of ignorance by the influence of matter. The soul sees body as body and soul as soul, and thus transcends the confusions of incarnation by reaping the benefits of learning which only incarnation makes possible. Aphorism 34: Please clarify what is meant by "questionable things" in relation to motive and sins of omission. "Questionable things" are simply those things done without sufficient concentration upon the possibility of doing something better. Any act is questionable not in itself, but in its relation to other acts which might be performed instead. Therefore all "wrong doing" is, in this sense, part of an "error of omission." As regards motive, the theosophical admonition that motive must be checked by mind, is once again a way of saying that no one can have a completely pure motive unless his mind clearly sees alternative courses of action and the nature of the continuance of both alternative actions in terms of karmic consequences. It is the "good" we do not see rather than the "evil" we do see that is the cause of karmic difficulty. Similarly, if we see nothing but "good," we do not see true good at all-since the latter exists at all times as the better or best alternative rather than as a thing in itself. One of the occult failures of modern world religions has been their failure to provide philosophical means by which "good" and "evil" are seen to have meaning only in their relationship one with the other. "As wise as serpents and as harmless as doves" means knowledge of the alternatives which line the path of choice. ========================================================== EVERYDAY QUESTIONS ON PATANJALI'S YOGA APHORISMS Vol.35 p. 373 APHORISM 36 (Book II): Why should a Yogi in whom veracity is complete pay the penalty of becoming a focus for "bad" works? I can understand better his being a focus for "good" works, but I should think such a Yogi would be karma-less. It is necessary to assume that a Yogi should have counterbalanced both the cause and the effect in himself because of his complete veracity; but for others he is a representation of both philosophical truth and correct action, and is an open channel for their karma. If those who share the same environment as the Yogi are envious or resentful of him they will act in all things with partially impure motives, since recognition of a Teacher is proof that one recognizes truth in action when he sees it. "Good" karma comes to the man who understands some of the principles of wisdom, of which one of the basic, as well as most "human," is respect and gratitude for the wisdom of the teacher whose vision of truth is clearer than one's own. Unless the relationship between any individual and the Yogi is a proper one, the karma of that individual will be "mixed" rather than good, and thus the Yogi will feel those mixed effects, while he enjoys the fruits of his own right thought and action. He is also a key to the right thought and action of others. He is, in fact, the "key man" in society, as was Plato's philosopher-king, and, unless his place be recognized, society (or karma) will withhold certain benefits (or good karma) which would otherwise accrue. Without any conscious effort to be such, the Yogi is an open sesame for the good karma of others. He is the truth before men which they must be able to identify if they are to have the complete wisdom which brings right action and "good karma." The same principle would apply to what is called "bad" karma-for the usual classes of "bad karma" would simply be the results of denying truth. Yet another principle is also involved in the matter of a good and great man being the focus for karma resulting from "bad works"-a principle known as "the economy of nature." Just as poisonous mushrooms seek the shade of a great oak, since otherwise the conditions necessary for their growth do not exist, so also do many dire and troublesome events focus around the yogi, for the reason that only he has sufficient wisdom to deal with them. The breadth of his knowledge can make room for human confusion or malignance in others, since his nature will not be inwardly troubled by anything that befalls. In this way, perhaps, can many "bad things" come to the great and wise. Aphorism 37: "When abstinence from theft, in mind and act, is complete in the Yogee, he has the power to obtain all material wealth." Would this mean that such an one as described above could, if he chose, become very wealthy in this commercial civilization of today? If honesty is thus seen to be such an important factor in the acquirement of material wealth, why it is that such a large percentage of relatively dishonest men are so materially wealthy, and conversely, why do many honest men barely manage to acquire enough wealth to support their families? The average "honest man" is not a yogi, as the latter term is used by Patanjali. "The Yogee of time's duration" has more than one kind of wisdom, honesty being for him simply the inconspicuous by-product of knowledge of all things in their proper relation one to another. The Yogi has a highly developed manasic faculty-manas lighted brilliantly by fusion with the inspiration of Buddhi. Such a man can acquire any "material wealth" that is really needed by applying his crystal-clear mind to the problem presented, or he can inspire such trust in others that they will without question place all wealth under his stewardship. The latter, in fact, would be the most natural working out of karma in our age, since the direct acquisition of wealth in the commercial world would be something of a waste of time for a great spiritual teacher. For the average honest man, however, there are still many obstacles to be overcome. As the potentialities of his mind develop he may find it increasingly difficult to be honest-just as the awakening faculties of man after the first rounds and races tend to confuse him and suggest through vivid imagination the "beauties" of the road of exploitation. In a practical sense, men do not shower trust upon the honest man unless he is also provenly a wise and practical man, for honesty in itself does not insure that the best use will be made of property or wealth entrusted to his care. Aphorism 38: Why should "continence" be so important, when it applies only to the body-the ephemeral? The place of occurrence of this reference to continence suggests that more is meant to be conveyed by the word than simply physical chastity. The qualities discussed as unworthy in previous aphorisms are enmity, theft, anger, questionable things, etc. Aphorism 39 speaks of "covetousness" in exactly the same way. Continence, in this context, becomes the ability to restrain all forms of self-indulgence or sensualism. It is the tendency to self-indulgence which takes strength from the body and from the mind. Sensual self-indulgence is first a mental misuse of the energies of the body-instead of raising the level of expression for the body-lives, the soul infuses itself into a "stretching" of the normal capacities for psychic feeling and thus exploits and damages a normal capacity. The effects of this are both bodily and mental, as the decline of Grecian civilization in particular attests. Aphorism 42: If it is possible for a Yogi to acquire superlative felicity, how are we to understand Aphorism 15, of this Book, which says that to the man who has attained the perfection of spiritual cultivation, "all mundane things are alike vexatious." Mundane things as mundane things would clearly be "vexatious" to the knower of spiritual reality. Yet in all things and events the Sage, it is said, can see the spiritual in the physical-beyond and above it, no matter how superficially interwoven the two may be. Aphorism 15 also posits that mundane things are vexatious until the "highest condition" is reached. Beyond that point nothing is vexatious, and when nothing is longer vexatious one is in a state of superlative felicity. When one fears no failure, dreads no disappointment, he can begin to truly live with vitality and full awareness on all planes. ======================================================================== EVERYDAY QUESTIONS ON PATANJALI'S YOGA APHORISMS, THEOSOPHY, Vol. 35 p. 421 BOOK III IT seems strange that this is the only Book which has no title. Can it be simply because it serves as a continuation of Book II ? In Book II, Aphorism 29, the last three practices named are not taken up until the beginning of Book in, but the remainder of the Book is very detailed and specific in contrast to this beginning. In the commentary upon Aphorism 4 of this Book it is explained that the word "Sanyama"-used more frequently than any other capitalized designation in Book III-cannot be properly rendered in English. A title for Book III which employed "restraint" or a similar word would therefore be misleading. >From consideration of these tangible difficulties regarding a name for such instructions, it is natural to notice the similar difficulties which would inevitably attend the "titling" of any subjects relating to practical occultism. Techniques for "Getting Occult Power" might command fascination-but for the wrong reasons. Patanjali, apparently, as would any initiate, avoided calling special attention to such things, but simply mentioned them after the proper philosophical background had been provided. In this sense, the chapter is a continuation of Book II. Mr. Judge states in the Preface that "Book III is for the purpose of defining the nature of the perfected state"-a definition which can be understood only in terms of the philosophical clarifications offered in Books I and II. When abrupt transitions of development occur in Patanjali, a reference to Mr. Judge's preface will often offer a germinal thought on the general scope and purpose of the several Books taken as a whole. For instance, the problem of separating philosophic ideas from specific techniques of psychological discipline is illumined by Mr. Judge's explanations. The last paragraph of the preface implies another factor which should be borne in mind: the "specifics" of such teachings as Patanjali's are peculiarly fitted for men of a certain "temperament" and character, and are not as universally applicable as might be supposed. Aphorism : In "The Voice of the Silence," Samadhi is referred to as "the state of faultless vision." How would it be possible to reach such a high state of consciousness by concentrating on a material subject or object of sense? An Adept is one who moves with the knowledge that there is no real distinction between spirit and matter. Any form or object becomes for him, it is said, the mirror of the universe-both objective and subjective. All definitions of Samadhi are not, it should be noted, synonymous with "the highest spiritual state." As a sort of "beatific vision," Samadhi may be compared with devachan-if we can imagine devachan consciously controlled by one in that state. Samadhi can be entered by all those who attain a certain degree of knowledge of occultism-by those who move toward becoming Dharmakayas, as well as by those on the Nirmanakaya path. H.P.B. called Samadhi an "ecstatic trance," and it is also implied by her that Samadhi should not be confused with the state of Samadhana (see Glossary) in which "a Yogi can no longer diverge from the path of spiritual progress." One of the first principles infused in the teachings of initiated occultists is that control of all one's faculties and the perfection of Yoga do not mean automatic entrance into the highest initiation. The purpose of Raj Yoga is "divine union," but its practice is the exercise of will upon the various degrees of resistance encountered in the world of matter. In a special sense, therefore, the practice of Yoga is a science relating to matter-power over various forms of matter invisible to the naked eye. But Raj Yoga means the fitting use of the knowledge, as well as the ability to command the unseen forces of nature. Aphorism 5: (a) In what way is the "discerning power" to be distinguished from discrimination It is clear that true discrimination is by no means "ordinary." (b) In the note on Aphorism 6, it is suggested that special modifications ensue after many other "afflictions" are removed, these, too, to be got rid of by means of Sanyama. Would this refer to the trials of chelaship? (a) All human beings exercise some form or degree of discrimination-the highest degree obviously calling for considerable development of "discerning power." This "power" is, of course, common to all men, and is the root of self-consciousness. All men must discriminate, in the sense that they select or prefer, but the "discerning power," as Patanjali speaks of it, connotes more than simply conscious personal preference. We can know that we prefer something, yet it is far more important to know exactly why. A full manifestation of discerning power would occur within the mind of the man who is able to see the correct proportions of all the factors involved in each opportunity for choice. This would also be "discrimination" in its philosophic meaning. (b) "Chelaship" in the philosophical sense means any self-conscious pledge to undertake one-pointedness in action. The "afflictions and obstructions described in the previous books" have primarily to do with mental discipline-the attainment of concentration and one-pointedness in thought. This mental discipline is but a means to the "end" of action, however, and the practical use of a discipline involves complications which can be revealed only in and through action. Thus the chela, be he one of Patanjali's pupils or a worker for the present Theosophical Movement, will inevitably encounter all manner of disquieting circumstances and attitudes, which tend to test and strain his initial mental calmness. But such an one has the advantage of the instilled habits of mental discipline, and the advantage of viewing goals and purposes integrated with that discipline. This is the difference between "chelaship" and religion, for the latter demands "devotion" during periods of both outer and inner strain without having first supplied that mind-control which enables the devotee to meet all circumstances as a responsible moral agent. For the religious man (whether he be called Christian, Buddhist or Theosophist), the burning issues of life tend to be over-simplified if he simply refers to hallowed phrases instead of giving them needed thinking on his own part, and his inner growth can thus be considerably retarded. ==================================================================== EVERYDAY QUESTIONS ON PATANJALI'S YOGA APHORISMS Vol. 35 p. 467 APHORISM 9 (Book III): Here it is said that there are two trains of self-reproductive thought, but that the mind, in passing from one to the other, is concerned with both those trains. Is it possible for the mind to THINK of two things or subjects at the same time? Self-reproductive thought must be based upon some genuine apprehension of reality, else it is not thought, but simply the recording of impressions. There are, however, two "realities." There is the reality of any given moment, the relationships between beings at any certain point in time, and there is the reality of a universal spiritual evolution-which has nothing to do with "physical" time-and which represents the highest principle of both man and nature. For man, the problem of understanding is dual-he must understand the phenomenal world by correlating the activities of any, and finally all, manifested beings with his own activities. He must also understand, through the medium of his highest faculties, the noumenal essence, the changeless, in and beyond all diversities in beings. He must cognize both the phenomenal world and the noumenal world at the same time, neither abstract philosophical understanding nor specific knowledge being sufficient in itself. Nirodha is described as that state wherein comprehension of both exists. "Be ye wise as serpents and harmless as doves" is a saying which indicates the necessity for knowing the complexities of the objective world while retaining the calmness of spiritual understanding of the whole as the whole. It is not possible to think of two "things" or "subjects" at the same time, but it is possible and finally necessary to see both aspects of life, phenomenal and noumenal, at the same time. Aphorism 10: What more could be asked of the mind than an uniform flow" -NIRODHA? Or, could it logically be concluded that this refers to the flow between higher and lower manas? It is one thing to observe the inter-penetration of two different spheres of intelligence, and quite another, to form from that preliminary knowledge a perfect synthesis. A "uniform flow" between higher and lower manas means that the body and the psychic energies are controlled by understanding, but it is said that the trained seer can see the "All" in any one "object." Nirodha might be regarded as a state of wise flexibility, while Ekagrata is the attainment of a wise concentration. It is interesting to note that here, as in many other portions of Patanjali's instructions, the teacher describes state after state of Yogic attainment. The reader may be somewhat disconcerted to discover that just when Patanjali seems to have described the state most important to attain, he immediately proceeds to outline further steps in the deepening of perception. The profundity of this method should not escape notice, for it conveys the constant suggestion of further evolution, through and beyond any state. Patanjali's disciples could not think there is a final achievement in real Yoga. To formulate the end of all attainment would invite the student to imagine he had mastered ultimate knowledge every time he reached anything that vaguely resembled "The Goal." Actually, there will always be further steps in spiritual evolution. The first sign of progress toward a goal is not proof that the goal has been attained. The man who seeks Samadhi, for instance, may think that almost any semi-spiritual psychic experience is Samadhi-if Samadhi is the only description offered him of a "spiritual state." One of the minor curses of profane, popular religions is in their over-simplification of all descriptions of inner attainment. Not one word-symbol, nor two, but many are needed to impress powerfully upon the aspirant that evolution is an endless series of progressive awakenings. Aphorism 14: Is this Aphorism to be understood-together with the note-in connection with Aphorism 45, Book I? Is there any relation with EKAGRATA, of Aphorism 12, Book III? If EKAGRATA is a synonym of Mahat, as the GLOSSARY states, it would seem impossible to reach such a state. All roads to perception of Reality, whether they begin with the problem of understanding the phenomenal world, or the problem of understanding the noumenal world, must end with perception of the "two in one." Concentration upon any "subtle object," states Aphorism 45, Book I, "ends with the indissoluble element called primordial matter." Primordial and universal Mahat-Eka.-are both descriptions of reality. Mind and matter are not separate, even though, as stated in the Voice, "the self of matter and the SELF of Spirit can never meet." To see truly that there is universal intelligence in matter-and universal matter in intelligence-is to enter a state of "Ekagrata." Aphorism 19: Here it is stated: The nature of the mind of another person becomes known to the ascetic when he concentrates his own mind on that of another person." Yet, Aphorism 20 shows that only the performance of SANYAMA with that object in view will reveal the FUNDAMENTAL BASIS of the other person's mind. (a) Why is MOTIVE so little emphasized in Patanjali? (b) Is the present-day mind reader" to be considered in the class with Patanjali's ascetic"? (a) Motive is not under-emphasized in Patanjali. It is simply not called motive. It should be remembered that Patanjali's Yoga instructions are entirely in the nature of a scientific treatise, and exclude religious or devotional exhortation. Motive in Patanjali is discussed indirectly in terms of the highest states of consciousness, for these involve an ever-clearer perception of the "One in All"-the basis for universal interdependence and the feeling of brotherhood. Patanjali may be said to insist upon two points in respect to what we call motive. First, that the highest motive is impossible without the highest knowledge. Second, that the first stages of concentration and meditation may be attained by any man who desires them ardently, with whatever motive. But Patanjali insists that until the higher forms of knowledge are attained (right motive), it is impossible to have perfection of any of the powers of Yoga. Patanjali is attempting to lay a basis for understanding what "right motive" is, rather than telling his disciples to be sure to have it-as the protagonists of all religions never tire of doing. (b) None of the modern "mind readers" have followed the disciplines which Patanjali lists as prerequisites for the ascetic, so they can hardly be considered "in the same class." There is an extremely important distinction between casual "mind reading" and that concentration which enables a man to know the fundamental basis of another's mind. The former "accomplishment" may be purely a passive psychic sensitivity which enables specific astral impressions to be read. The latter has to do, not with petty details, nor yet with invading the privacy of a man's creative thoughts, but rather with understanding the whole general trend and color of another's life-current of thought. Only an adept can accurately sense the nature of this general trend. ================================================================== EVERYDAY QUESTIONS ON PATANJALI'S YOGA APHORISMS Vol. 35 p. 514 APHORISM 21 (Book III): The note on this Aphorism speaks of luminousness as the manifestation of SATTVA, while the eye is also a manifestation of SATTVA in another aspect. Now, according to the GLOSSARY, Sattva is goodness, or purity- one of the three divisions of nature-and it is difficult to see the connection between the quality of goodness in nature and such an objective quality as luminousness, while the human eye is even more objective. Please explain. It is necessary for the theosophical student to return in this instance, as in so many others, to some of the fundamental clarifications made by H. P. Blavatsky in the Secret Doctrine. Spirit and matter, she states, are not two realities but two aspects of the same reality. Similarly, the quality of tamas or inertia is not a description of matter, but rather the description of a certain aspect of matter-more clearly, spirit-intelligence temporarily represented as matter and exhibiting one characteristic predominantly. So with sattva, there is not "a certain proportion" of matter, out of which human eyes are constructed, which is "Sattvic." Spirit-matter, in a certain condition, produces an aspect able to exhibit the unique qualities of luminousness. It is not difficult to see why "goodness" and "luminousness" are both associated with Sattva, since one is the most highly perceptive state viewed from the standpoint of the soul, and the other is the most perceptive state afforded by conditions of matter. Aphorism 22: I can understand how a power over oneself, one's own organs and functions, is lawful, but it does not seem lawful to use such power over others. Nor, in Aphorism 24, can I understand there to be any wisdom in being able to acquire the friendship of whomsoever one may desire. How can one want a friendship that is not mutually desirable? I hold the same reserve with regard to Aphorism 35. It may first be noted that such powers are described as being held only over the five physical senses. This is not, for instance, a power to interfere with the egoic discriminative faculties. Rather its exercise might be used in order to avoid the distraction of perceptive intelligence by sensory impressions, so that the perception itself might become clear. It is common human experience to have one's most dispassionate discriminative faculties hindered by the intrusion of sights, sounds, and odors. The ascetic of pure mind would, by his own superior powers of concentration, be able to inspire continued attention of others upon soul realities-oblivious of external intrusions. And this possibly to such a degree that awareness of objects of sense would disappear altogether. To have the power of acquiring "a friendship of whomsoever he may desire" does not mean that the devotee of yoga is able to create a "friendship" that is not mutually desirable. Rather, the powers of the yogi simply make his friendship discernible and desirable to others. This may be done by projecting enough of the yogi's essential feeling and quality of character to demonstrate the levels of real communication which exist, even if usually hidden, between any two souls. Aphorism 35 does not suggest that the yogi judges the "mental conditions, purposes, and thoughts of others" but simply that he is able to see them clearly. This is not a special faculty to be developed apart from growth in general discrimination. It is simply the inevitable outcome of understanding one's own nature thoroughly-which, before its completion, does involve such specific matters as awareness of the condition of all the nervous centers of the body. The word "heart" may symbolize both the qualities of soul and the nature of a specific psycho-physical condition in the nervous system. Though the words and approach are entirely different, this would indicate a knowledge of what is now called psycho-biology, common enough in Patanjali's time, but built upon a more solid philosophical foundation than that supplied by the orthodox assumptions of contemporary materialism. Aphorisms 30-33: Is not this type of concentration dangerous for the Westerner, or for anyone, without the guru's direction and protection? The worst danger seems indicated in Aphorism 52, as a corollary of Aphorism 33. This type of concentration would not be "dangerous for the Westerner" if all the preliminary steps of training assumed by Patanjali had been taken in proper fashion. However, an almost unsolvable difficulty lies in the fact that the whole psychic environment of our latter "Iron Age" militates against knowledge and a control of occult forces and powers. The conditions under which the equivalent of Patanjali's "Guru assistance" might exist today would obviously be extremely difficult to obtain. The freakish psychic involvements of many theosophists in the periods of Theosophical Society-confusion which followed the deaths of H. P. Blavatsky and W. Q. Judge do indicate that certain forms of insanity may be contracted through exercising the desire to establish personal communication with "higher entities." The most amusing as well as the most tragic illustration of this is to be found in the cases of C. W. Leadbeater and Mrs. Besant, who gave out interviews with the Manu and Solar Logos. There are many ways in which undisciplined psychics may suffer "a renewal of afflictions of the mind," as indicated in Aphorism 52. The legends of occultism contain mysterious references to the "star rishis," elementals apparently charged with sufficient sensual power to confuse the psychic and the biological natures of those who trespass with questionable motives upon realms presently beyond normal ability to control. How does the practice shown in Aphorism 34 differ essentially from "New Thought" practices? According to that cult, if, for instance, you desire money-concentrate on getting it, and you will get it. The essential difference between the practices suggested by Aphorism and those of "New Thought" is that Patanjali describes concentration upon a desired understanding, whereas "New Thought" involves concentration upon a physical consummation of wish-fulfillment. There is not, however, an "essential difference" between "New Thought" procedures and the habits of Hatha Yoga. This for the reason that in neither instance is there a primary concern with understanding. Those who separated the schools of Hatha Yoga from Raja Yoga in Patanjali's time-and this was done then as well as during later periods of great philosophical corruption in Eastern lands-were divorcing the Science of Ends from the Science of Means. The whole karma of Western culture is a crude and awful reflection of the same psychological tendency. The desire for knowledge is always pure, and the Means undertaken, if this End be genuinely in view, will not corrupt the practitioner. Aphorism 34, in its suggestion that after long practice the ascetic can "disregard the various aids to concentration hereinbefore recommended," is another indication that Patanjali's whole emphasis was upon knowledge or understanding. The greatest teachers and instructors are never primarily concerned with the specific results which may be attained by a pupil; they are rather themselves concentrated upon aiding the student to understand the basic principles and theories of their science. This will be found to hold true even today in the meticulous disciplines of the physical sciences. "New Thought" practices are like irresponsible scientific experimentation; they produce results, but those results confuse, rather than improve the processes of thought. ============================================================ EVERYDAY QUESTIONS ON PATANJALI'S YOGA APHORISMS Vol. 35, p. 563 APHORISM 28 (Book III): By concentrating his mind upon the moon, there arises in the ascetic a knowledge of the fixed stars." How is this to be explained? In S.D. II, 701, it is said that "even great adepts, trained seers though they are, can claim acquaintance with the nature and appearance of planets and their inhabitants belonging to our solar system only." In the passage from the Secret Doctrine cited by the questioner, it is very plainly indicated that we are to regard the matter of "fixed stars" from the viewpoint of archaic as well as modern science. Our sun, however slowly, revolves around a fixed point in the Milky Way. It would appear, then, that Aphorism 29 gives a clue to Aphorism 28, by pointing us to the law of cycles, and stating that by concentration of the mind upon the polar star, the ascetic is able to know the fixed time and motion of every star in the universe. Since no atom in the universe is without life and consciousness and motion, and man's principles are allied to the planets of our solar-system-their atoms and molecules in constant circulation-and since the ascetic can know of the spheres between the earth and sun (Aphorism 27), then, it must be that he can know, analogically, the rate of motion of our sun. The moon is not only the nearest geographical point of reference for the ascetic, but has also the strongest astral connection with our earth, of all the planets. That the sun and moon are the deities of our planetary macro-cosmos, (S.D. II, 639 fn) is a clue to the intelligences using those mediums of expression, or motions. The Secret Doctrine statement quoted in the question also indicates quite another matter for our consideration, namely that the nature of the planets and their "inhabitants" outside our solar-system can not be thoroughly known even to high adepts, who can have access, even in spirit, only to the planes of consciousness within our solar system. The work of the highest adept is, after all, work in the context of a particular or historical cycle. Their activity requires specific knowledge of the evolutionary status of beings involved in our solar system, while like knowledge of the beings in other solar systems is unnecessary. (a) Aphorism 33: "By concentrating his mind upon the light in the head the ascetic acquires the power of seeing divine beings." The note says that the seeing of divine beings can be accomplished by concentrating upon that part of the body more nearly connected with them." But I would think that divine beings could be contacted only through one's own divine nature-not through the BODY. There is no form, however divine, which cannot be perceived through the medium of the body. In this instance, the head is said to collect some of "the luminous principle in nature," and becomes an appropriate means or instrument for the faculty in question. The body thus serves to condense the more highly refined matter which is the substratum of such visions. As intimated by Aphorism 33, this variety of substance is not an integral part of the physical organism. Yet it is connected with the more gross form of the brain. The highest powers come into use with the blending of the essences of all planes. Every being has, by definition, a Form, and this form can be perceived by the faculty of the total human organism which corresponds to the matter and qualities of appearance on that particular plane. There are "lives," for instance, of differing development informing every one of the physical organs of man's body, and each class of intelligence has a distinctive rapport with all life of that class and degree. The "Elementals" of Theosophical parlance are all "divine beings," whether presently embodied or disembodied. The four lower principles of the seven-principled man serve as connecting links for the mind-soul in learning how to understand and finally to utilize the elemental forces of all nature. (b) Then turn to Aphorism 52 Why should one want to see divine beings, if it means to renew the afflictions of the mind? Aphorism 52 suggests a very different point of view from Aphorism 33. Aphorism 38 described the nature of the "affliction" of the mind which Aphorism 52 suggests may flow from association with celestial beings: "The powers hereinbefore described are liable to become obstacles in the way of perfect concentration, because of the possibility of wonder and pleasure from their exercise, but are not obstacles for the ascetic who is perfect in the practice enjoined." It is then necessary to contrast "association" with "seeing," since the vision mentioned in Aphorism 33 could mean simply a clear perception that a divine luminousness exists in varying degrees with varying beings, yet to attempt definite contact or association might well be a mixing of karma and lead to the type of psychological confusion described. Aphorism 39: The inner self of the ascetic may be transferred to any other body and there have complete control." Is this the rationale of the borrowed body," or does it simply mean the identifying of the ascetic's mind with the mind of another-or both? This Aphorism illustrates amply what Mr. Judge meant on page xi, Preface, by saying that Patanjali had no need to enforce the doctrine of reincarnation, and that it is assumed all through the Aphorisms. Here, we find the intimation that the ascetic consciously and voluntarily enters body after body, and assumes control in each one, because in preceding bodies that inner self had gained philosophical knowledge as well as the power to control bodily and sensory operations. All men use "borrowed bodies," since all bodies are made up of terrestrial and chemical elements which are returned after the death of the body; but, the ascetic "borrows" in full knowledge of the process. The inner self does not attach itself to a "foreign" mind and body-that is, to a body not belonging to it under Karma. It seems as if the questioner is considering the possibility of the ascetic controlling the will and choice of other minds. Such control would be utterly contrary to the science of Raja Yoga. All that may be done is to intensify the spiritual force of another mind, at that other's wish and desire. It may be done by a sort of spiritual osmosis, or participation in the spiritual or luminous essence of the true adept. The case of "borrowed bodies" in a specific sense, when a body must be deserted by its inmate, and is taken over by one who knows how to do so, and who can use it for the benefit of mankind, follows the same occult law. There must be some karmic relationship between the one who is through with a particular body, and the one who is able to revivify it for a high purpose. Aphorism 42: (a) By concentrating his mind upon the relations between the ear and AKASA, the ascetic acquires the power of hearing all sounds, whether upon the earth or in the aether, and whether far or near." How relate this to Aphorism 17? This Aphorism simply chooses another suggestive way of saying that all powers and faculties in the universe are related to man's sevenfold organism. Here again an understanding of the Aphorism demands recognition of the fundamental occult fact that no knowledge is possible on any plane without a grasp of the principles which apply on all planes. Akasa is the universal principle corresponding to Sound, and once the ascetic can attune the physical organ of sound with the true medium of its transmission-the Akasa-no sound in the visible or invisible worlds would be beyond his power to hear. Aphorism 17 discusses the "power of understanding the meaning of any sound uttered by any sentient being." This might be regarded as the object to be held in view in the practice of Aphorism 42, for unless a power is used to extend understanding, it does not become part of the soul, and therefore is lost at death. (b) Science considers that sound is transmitted through material mediums, as earth, water, air; that each liquid and solid has a characteristic rate of sound transmission, and gases have a range of rates depending on their pressure; but in a void or vacuum there is no transmission of sound. What, then, is the basis of the note, saying that Sound is the distinctive property of aether, when physical vacuums do not affect the aether, but do affect physical sound? It is a fundamental postulate of occultism that no absolute vacuum exists. A given area in space may be denuded of all those properties which act as known transmitting agents for the vibration of sound, while within that relative vacuum there are still forms of life and substance through which sound can be transmitted. It is necessary to recognize this principle, since, actually, for science as for occultism, there can be no break in the organic continuity of nature forces, even though such forces go through numerous transformations. A corollary from the science of today is suggested in the present investigation of supersonic waves and of innumerable sounds which cannot be recorded by the physical ear. From this it would follow most naturally that there are still other agencies of sound which as yet have not been represented by mathematical equation, nor given a place in the formulation of scientific theory. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Sat Jan 21 06:53:18 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91556 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2006 14:53:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jan 2006 14:53:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.70) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2006 14:53:15 -0000 Received: from [216.175.69.13] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1F0K59-0007dg-5K; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 09:51:12 -0500 To: Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 06:50:38 -0800 Message-ID: <019d01c61e9a$0e882c80$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79bb7a36e8347b5cd6e0f40ddf2880191d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: JUDICIAL ACTIONS -- Science versus the Death Penalty X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=phx5M38fRp3Z_ALgX9kFiTLuOn2yIKH_mN4ry0UY8fGSAw X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1/21/2006 5:56 AM RE: JUDICIAL ACTIONS -- Science versus the Death Penalty Hi Steve: Thanks as always for your good thoughts. In my opinion: The question of judicial equity and judgment is current so much now, in these days of threatening terrorists, local criminals of all kinds, and fearful men and women everywhere. Ask also if any "war" or "pre-emptive strikes" are justified. Is crime, vandalism, murder, torture, robbery, destruction, etc. 'right' if wielded politically ? What is the difference between a person, a child, a weaker or impaired individual, and a whole country? Are there fair two-tiered or two-level attitudes in this? Why not have a "United World" instead of merely a small, strong, violent and enforcive: "United States." Have we the right to invade, destroy and kill because of a bad "government ?" How many people like us in Iraq {to use an example) have lost their near and dear ones ? Can they "love the U S A ?" What is the true value of any human life ? Is it relevant to politics and society -- or the very intrusive and subtle idea that "those over there" have less value that "we over here." It is the old ploy: "I am the bully with the BIG STICK. So you had better do what I say, and immediately, - OR ELSE .." MY MIGHT IS THE ONLY RIGHT ...!!!!!!! ??????? All human judgments of other human's character or acts are dangerous. They interfere with the action of impartial and just Karma - which is UNIVERSAL, IMPARTIAL, IMPERSONAL, and relentlessly covers those aspects of Karma for that individual (or nation, or religion) which are unknown and most times, unknowable by us. We are meddling and trifling with NATURE'S LAW and THAT is UNIVERSAL No excuses. I am sure, needlessly we entangle ourselves with many strands of others' Karma and draw to our selves the hate and resentment of individuals - is that desirable ? What will be our future in lives ahead ? I think if we probe our own motives, we will discover that ours are (to some extent) mainly REVENGE; and our desire (?) for a prompt and visible redress, involves us in trying to act as though we are Karma for the time-being. Do you think incarceration in one of our prisons (or limitations imposed on a country, professed religious beliefs, or tribe, etc.. is a social and cultural improvement? It is called a punishment -- because freedom is restricted - But what is actually done to benefit the individual? We have shelved him or her for a time - so ? -- so what aspect usually emerges? The Kamic - the dark side in most of those so treated. The system that has been evolved, sounds on surface, as a form of equity - but (to me it sounds) its only getting a nasty problem "out of our hair" for a while. - Our ability to truly discover culpability and assess a useful and compassionate redress that is reformative and self-educative seem to lack -- for me to see. In many cases, when freedom is restored, do we not find that revenge, fear and punishment continue? -- fear of further rape, molesting, theft, extortion, etc... Most feel that the "debt to society" has not been truly or usefully discharged. Then some take "justice" into their own hands, and -- do worse. Most believe that the former culprit's character has NOT been reformed by imprisonment alone. And what about those who have been wrongly (yet judicially) been proved NOT GUILTY at a later date? Can their time so wrongfully denied (in this incarnation) be restored my a monetary payment alone ? There is great inconsistency here? What then is the "gentlest sentence that can be imposed?" WHO HAS THE WISDOM ? At best banishment or exile might work - the isolation and hardships of a "no contact" kind. A deserted island ? Best wishes, Dallas ===================== -----Original Message----- From: steven L Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 7:30 AM To: Subject: JUDICIAL ACTIONS -: Science versus the Death Penalty ? I wonder if the fact that the law regarding death penalties, and all other general court proceedings, being put in the hands of the people (as in the jury formen's decision) isn't a certain kind of justice in itself. it seems to me that it might mark the actual evolutionary character of our culture, in the sense that we are permitted, by our criminal statutes, to put each other to death. In truth, the jury has been put in the position to actually bear the responsibility of being the Judge. The courts are absolutely bound up in technicalities and personalities, so that the lawyers and the actual Judge, are incapable of any kind of objectivety. In fact thery seem very willing to abdicate. Therefore, in practice, the entire weight of the decision is on the jury. To my mind, this puts the judgement, given the state of general moral atmosphere, squarely where it belongs. This is similar to Jefferson's statement: The people get the president they deserve (paraphrase). This is the karma of our day. Yes, we are all responsible for our decisions and actions, but the general ignorance of an "Absolute" sense of ethics based in an awareness of the actual mathematics of the Law of retribution and equality, leaves the majority incapabale of trying their contemporaries any differently than they do. I should say, "we do", because I've been on a jury, and given the court atmosphere, the weight of judgement really does fall squarely on ones shoulders. To me this is thrilling, but the crimes committed these days are a reflection of all of us, and that is anything but "thrilling". So, just some thoughts of mine. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Roberto N. Lupercio To: Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 9:56 PM Subject Re: Science versus the Death Penalty Hi Leo, Here is an idea why not. CAPITAL PUNISHMENT [Lucifer, Vol. VI, No. 34, June, 1890, p. 335] Having read with much interest in Theosophical Siftings [Vol. III, 1890-91] the article by Dr. Franz Hartmann on "Capital Punishment," I venture to ask your opinion on the subject. I have long been sure that it is both useless and wrong to put murderers to death-convinced by the same reasons which Dr. Hartmann puts so cogently. Moreover, I have often maintained that since two wrongs do not make a right, matters cannot be mended by killing the man who has taken the life of another. Hence I feel that should I be called to serve on a jury in such a trial, I must either declare my views at the outset, which might result in the choice of a "hanging" juryman in my place, or serve with the intention of not convicting the accused of wilful murder, no matter how guilty he might be proved. If that course were only to result in keeping the criminal in custody for the rest of his natural life, my conscience would be clear; but, as it might easily set him again at liberty, I feel in a dilemma. Will you kindly say in your next issue what your opinion is, and help perhaps more than one. PUZZLED STUDENT. Answer We are equally with yourself opposed to capital punishment, so that your difficulty becomes our own. In the first place the "head" only of the juryman has to decide whether or not the accused has committed murder, and this is all the so-called "law" requires of him. Practically, however, since the juryman has, or ought to have, a "heart," the law neglects an important factor in the problem, for if it punishes murder with death, the juryman, in deciding for a verdict of guilty, of necessity becomes an accessory in a fresh murder. But the "heart" of the people is beginning to protest against this "eye for an eye" code and is refusing to render evil for evil. Capital punishment is nothing but a relic of Jewish barbarity. So that we are of opinion that this feeling should be fostered by open protest on every occasion, and by a refusal to participate in such half-human proceedings. The true physician cures the disease, and does not kill his patient. But we are afraid that the murder-doctors are in the majority for the moment, so that we can only protest.-[EDS.] BLAVATSKY: COLLECTED WRITINGS [ Vol. ? ] p., 238 =============================================== Interesting isn't it. Best Regards Roberto L. ===================================================== -----Original Message----- From: Leon M Sent: Jan 17, 2006 11:57 AM To: Subject: : Science versus the Death Penalty Aside from the theosophical moral considerations -- here's how scientific materialists consider why the death penalty in criminal cases is wrong. Can this approach assist the universal acceptance of the theosophical principles and their application toward furthering brotherhood and respect for the sanctity of all life? If so, how so, and if not, why not? ** Science versus the Death Penalty (Commentary in Scientific American's BLOG) Last December was a special month for U.S. executions. North Carolina gave a lethal injection to Kenneth Boyd, making him the 1,000th person to be executed since the 1976 Supreme Court decision to allow the reinstatement of the death penalty. Soon thereafter, on December 13, California put to death Crip gang founder Stanley "Tookie" Williams. The U.S. remains the only developed Western nation to permit executions despite serious flaws in the system. No need for any pacifist proclivity or liberal leaning to see that--just look at the science. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Sat Jan 21 11:48:46 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22364 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2006 19:48:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jan 2006 19:48:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.70) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2006 19:48:44 -0000 Received: from [216.175.69.13] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1F0OhY-00050B-3v; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 14:47:09 -0500 To: "'Steven Levey'" Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 11:46:34 -0800 Message-ID: <01ae01c61ec3$675b98f0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79c038d911e7581bcdeacba0303c91e1bb350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: JUDICIAL ACTIONS -- Science versus the Death Penalty X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=Uv-6py2OT0ny3PSv604NKuMQatzDwF0UW85gu1eiRplnpg X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1/21/2006 11:06 AM Dear Steve: I am often confronted with the same dilemma. You write: "Still, the world as it is now is our world, and in that sense we are trying be Theosophists in that world. Our duty and the thinking is complex, but at least the problems have to be seen in their correct light. By that I mean, in the context of today, religious fanaticism can go to war(whether they call themselves "the home of the brave" or not) against those who have previously gone to war against them. The truth is, this is like a chicken and egg question as to who delivered the first blow and who are retaliating from eons past." We all as students learning from THEOSOPHY , know more about karmic action, choice and the results - but we have difficulty in finding the ideal way of dealing with those. At best we can resist adding to them, at worst we can lie back and "go with the flow" - doing little or nothing. Is that the best or the ideal? The Voice offers (p. 36): "To live to benefit mankind is the first step. To practise the six glorious virtues (1) is the second. To don Nirmanakaya's humble robe is to forego eternal bliss for Self, to help on man's salvation. To reach Nirvana's bliss, but to renounce it, is the supreme, the final step-the highest on Renunciation's Path. Know, O Disciple, this is the Secret PATH, selected by the Buddhas of Perfection, who sacrificed The SELF to weaker Selves. Yet, if the "Doctrine of the Heart" is too high-winged for thee. If thou need'st help thyself and fearest to offer help to others,-then, thou of timid heart, be warned in time: remain content with the "Eye Doctrine" of the Law. Hope still. For if the "Secret Path" is unattainable this "day," it is within thy reach "to-morrow." Learn that no efforts, not the smallest-whether in right or wrong direction-can vanish from the world of causes. E'en wasted smoke remains not traceless. "A harsh word uttered in past lives, is not destroyed but ever comes again." The pepper plant will not give birth to roses, nor the sweet jessamine's silver star to thorn or thistle turn. Thou canst create this "day" thy chances for thy "morrow." In the "Great Journey," causes sown each hour bear each its harvest of effects, for rigid Justice rules the World. With mighty sweep of never erring action, it brings to mortals lives of weal or woe, the Karmic progeny of all our former thoughts and deeds. Take then as much as merit hath in store for thee, O thou of patient heart. Be of good cheer and rest content with fate. Such is thy Karma, the Karma of the cycle of thy births, the destiny of those, who, in their pain and sorrow, are born along with thee, rejoice and weep from life to life, chained to thy previous actions." Voice 36 - 38 also: "Sow kindly acts and thou shalt reap their fruition. Inaction in a deed of mercy becomes an action in a deadly sin. Thus saith the Sage: Shalt thou abstain from action? Not so shall gain thy soul her freedom. To reach Nirvana one must reach Self-Knowledge, and Self-Knowledge is of loving deeds the child. Have patience, Candidate, as one who fears no failure, courts no success. Fix thy Soul's gaze upon the star whose ray thou art, the flaming star that shines within the lightless depths of ever-being, the boundless fields of the Unknown. Have perseverance as one who doth for evermore endure. Thy shadows live and vanish; that which in thee shall live for ever, that which in thee knows, for it is knowledge, is not of fleeing life: it is the man that was, that is, and will be, for whom the hour shall never strike. If thou would'st reap sweet peace and rest, Disciple, sow with the seeds of merit the fields of future harvests. Accept the woes of birth. Step out from sunlight into shade, to make more room for others. The tears that water the parched soil of pain and sorrow, bring forth the blossoms and the fruits of Karmic retribution. " Voice pp 33 - 36 ------------------------------ So I ask myself: Should I bend with the flow and make excuses for the society we live in? But the ancient teachers tried to pull us (then) out of that trend and they set the example of a well disciplined life based on APPLYING universal principles regardless of society norms and abuses THEN. To make compromises is one thing and to excuse them is another, because it means we recognize them and then fail to try to change our responses to agree with present day "norms." THEOSOPHY is an attempt to challenge those -- and let us have the opportunity to improve our inner strength by doing the changing - suggesting we go back to basic moral standards regardless of current opinions and accepted ways of 'passing the buck.' I try to deal with these ideas as world-wide values and not to try to localize them (what do we know of Tibet now? --- very little!) We have to deal with our own Kama-Manasic natures here and now. I am still puzzling over this "transition age." All ages and times and our lives are for ever in "transition." Politically and world-wide we see changes as it unifies and the jagged edges of provincialism are jangled and wangled and ground together. Tempers based on ignorance, laziness and fanaticism are mutually aggravating - atrocities are committed without any care as to the future of the individual or of others - there is no justification for that in the ultimate sense. As I see it: The Mahatmas hope we will begin to "work" on our own lower natures and rectify them. When and where do we begin? I have posted some studies on PATANJALI that are well worth studying and possibly applying to ones' self. As I see it, it is our duty to make the changes in ourselves and then encourage and support others to think about the reason for moral and self-reform in themselves. We all have the same potentials. Sooner, the better. Best wishes, Dallas ======================= -----Original Message----- From: Steven L Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 7:44 AM To: Subject: Re: JUDICIAL ACTIONS -- Science versus the Death Penalty Dal- You are right, we should ask the larger questions about equity and judgement. Still, the world as it is now is our world, and in that sense we are trying be Theosophists in that world. Our duty and the thinking is complex, but at least the problems have to be seen in their correct light. By that I mean, in the context of today, religious fanaticism can go to war(whether they call themselves "the home of the brave" or not) against those who have previously gone to war against them. The truth is, this is like a chicken and egg question as to who delivered the first blow and who are retaliating from eons past. Yes, I agree, it is all vengence driven. However, within the context of today, I think it must be seen as still karma playing itself out as it must. But, because we have the paramitas to use as reference, I don't feel that we should over look the actual psychological/moral state of the entire world, even Tibet, where these Paramitas are really mostly said from memory. Their mantramic therapeutic power, is all but powerless in such confused peoples. No one the world over, is in some form, without them. Although the "ground" they fall on is in reality, mostly infertile. Still, I don't feel it is futile to think and say them, even in our world, but, I feel we must acknowledge that we are in a "Transition" time in history and therefore our patience must be as great as is required by the circumstances. >From this point of view, then, we probably need to balance our condemnation of the foolishness of governments with an allowence for a certain amount of psychological space in which to err. This is because, like children, no amount of carping on this and that right direction for them will "stick", until it does. But direction must be offered, and good parenting is a genuinely difficult are to master. I think the Mahatmas will attest to this, since they have been working on us for ages. Perhaps, the heinouness of the crimes today are a marker of this "transition" and the pain which goes along with them will drive these egos for incarnations, but eventually it must wear out. Unfortunately we are only 5000 some odd years out of 440,000 or so (forgive the poor memory on this) into Kali Yuga. So, there are many incarnations in which this can happen. I have know idea as to the supposed length of time a "transition" period may last. All I do know is that our sense of time is very confused, depending upon our addiction to transitory life, and tempered with an occassionally actual intuitive awareness from the Soul's perspective. Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From adelasie@sbcglobal.net Sat Jan 21 21:04:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: adelasie@sbcglobal.net@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 58100 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2006 05:04:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2006 05:04:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp114.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.198.213) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jan 2006 05:04:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 90507 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2006 05:02:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alphanumeric) (adelasie@sbcglobal.net@63.196.194.206 with login) by smtp114.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jan 2006 05:02:31 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 21:02:21 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <43D2A15D.27595.621478E@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <019d01c61e9a$0e882c80$0a0110ac@DALLAS> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Originating-IP: 68.142.198.213 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "adelasie" Subject: Re: Theos-World RE: JUDICIAL ACTIONS -- Science versus the Death Penalty X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=161282999 Hi Dallas, Your comments bring light to a very complex and often confusing subject. After all, whatever our ideals, we do live in this time and this place with a certain set of customs and assumptions shared by the majority, or at least so it seems. It is often instructive to apply basic theosophical principles to dilemmas. In this case, regarding the issues under consideration, it is very interesting to sincerely ask oneself, "How would I feel if (the act under scrutiny) happened to me? If I were being invaded and bombed by the military forces of another country? If I were being accused of a crime that I may not even have committed, and executed for the same?" An honest answer will often be very illuminating. All the best, Adelasie On 21 Jan 2006 at 6:50, W.Dallas TenBroeck wrote: > 1/21/2006 5:56 AM > > > > RE: JUDICIAL ACTIONS -- Science versus the Death Penalty > > > > Hi Steve: > > > > Thanks as always for your good thoughts. > > > > In my opinion: The question of judicial equity and judgment is > current so much now, in these days of threatening terrorists, local > criminals of all kinds, and fearful men and women everywhere. > > > > Ask also if any "war" or "pre-emptive strikes" are justified. > > > > Is crime, vandalism, murder, torture, robbery, destruction, etc. > 'right' if wielded politically ? > > > > What is the difference between a person, a child, a weaker or impaired > individual, and a whole country? Are there fair two-tiered or > two-level attitudes in this? Why not have a "United World" instead of > merely a small, strong, violent and enforcive: "United States." Have > we the right to invade, destroy and kill because of a bad "government > ?" How many people like us in Iraq {to use an example) have lost > their near and dear ones ? Can they "love the U S A ?" > > > > What is the true value of any human life ? Is it relevant to politics > and society -- or the very intrusive and subtle idea that "those over > there" have less value that "we over here." > > > > It is the old ploy: "I am the bully with the BIG STICK. So you had > better do what I say, and immediately, - OR ELSE .." MY MIGHT IS THE > ONLY RIGHT ...!!!!!!! ??????? > > > > All human judgments of other human's character or acts are dangerous. > They interfere with the action of impartial and just Karma - which is > UNIVERSAL, IMPARTIAL, IMPERSONAL, and relentlessly covers those > aspects of Karma for that individual (or nation, or religion) which > are unknown and most times, unknowable by us. > > > > We are meddling and trifling with NATURE'S LAW and THAT is UNIVERSAL > No excuses. > > > > I am sure, needlessly we entangle ourselves with many strands of > others' Karma and draw to our selves the hate and resentment of > individuals - is that desirable ? What will be our future in lives > ahead ? > > > > I think if we probe our own motives, we will discover that ours are > (to some extent) mainly REVENGE; and our desire (?) for a prompt and > visible redress, involves us in trying to act as though we are Karma > for the time-being. > > > > Do you think incarceration in one of our prisons (or limitations > imposed on a country, professed religious beliefs, or tribe, etc.. is > a social and cultural improvement? It is called a punishment -- > because freedom is restricted - > > > > But what is actually done to benefit the individual? We have shelved > him or her for a time - so ? -- so what aspect usually emerges? > The Kamic - the dark side in most of those so treated. > > > > The system that has been evolved, sounds on surface, as a form of > equity - but (to me it sounds) its only getting a nasty problem "out > of our hair" for a while. - Our ability to truly discover > culpability and assess a useful and compassionate redress that is > reformative and self-educative seem to lack -- for me to see. > > > > In many cases, when freedom is restored, do we not find that revenge, > fear and punishment continue? > > -- fear of further rape, molesting, theft, extortion, etc... Most > feel that the "debt to society" has not been truly or usefully > discharged. Then some take "justice" into their own hands, and -- do > worse. > > > > Most believe that the former culprit's character has NOT been reformed > by imprisonment alone. > > > > And what about those who have been wrongly (yet judicially) been > proved NOT GUILTY at a later date? Can their time so wrongfully > denied (in this incarnation) be restored my a monetary payment alone > ? > > > > There is great inconsistency here? > > > > What then is the "gentlest sentence that can be imposed?" WHO HAS THE > WISDOM ? > > > > At best banishment or exile might work - the isolation and hardships > of a "no contact" kind. A deserted island ? > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Dallas From sven2004@telia.com Sat Jan 21 23:37:11 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: Sven2004@telia.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 86630 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2006 07:37:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2006 07:37:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pne-smtpout1-sn2.hy.skanova.net) (81.228.8.83) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jan 2006 07:37:07 -0000 Received: from SVEINN.telia.com (62.20.197.78) by pne-smtpout1-sn2.hy.skanova.net (7.2.069.1) id 43CFE44F0007B3E3 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 21 Jan 2006 20:14:33 +0100 Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.1.20060120154958.01d402e8@telia.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 20:09:57 +0100 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 81.228.8.83 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: S F Subject: The Hindu Kush - X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=183548685; y=TfqfXfhn9hiFFlfHCC3rO3ZiQsZrP3RS0P7mHiPeaigL X-Yahoo-Profile: ari343 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: http://www.esa.int/esaEO/SEMIZRMZCIE_index_0.html Winter snow blankets the heights of the Pamir=20 Mountains and the Hindu Kush in this Envisat=20 image acquired over Central Asia, the snow cover=20 extending to surrounding desert lowlands. The image covers a jigsaw of national territories=20 including western Pakistan, Afghanistan, eastern=20 Iran, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan.=20 This region is well known for harsh winters. The snow-covered Hindu Kush covers much of the=20 image, the western section of an extended=20 mountain range system that encompasses the Pamir=20 and Karakorum Mountains and the Himalayas. The=20 average altitude of the Hindu Kush is 4500 metres. The overall Hindu Kush-Himalaya system includes=20 the highest elevations on Earth and makes up the=20 greatest concentration of ice and snow outside=20 the Polar Regions. Many major rivers flow from=20 it, with the system estimated to supply water for=20 500 million people across the region. Prominent to the south is the yellow expanse of=20 Afghanistan's Rigestan desert plateau, with=20 rippled sand dunes visible on its eastern side.=20 On the western side can be seen the Helmand River=20 as it flows south from the Hindu Kush. The Helmand intermittently flows into marshland=20 connected to the greenish lakes seen on the=20 western edge of the image, near the city of Z bol=20 just over the border with Iran. The Afghan city=20 of Kandahar is located on the northern extremity of Rigestan. Further north can be seen a longer water course=20 running down from the Hindu Kush: known to the=20 ancient Greeks as the Oxus River, this river=20 flows for 2400 km across the arid region. Its course can be seen about two thirds of the=20 way up the image, initially running west where it=20 demarcates the border between Afghanistan and=20 Tajikistan =96 today known as the Panj =96 before=20 turning to the northwest to trace the border=20 between Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan =96 where its=20 title changes to the Amu Darya. The Amu Darya once ran all the way west into a=20 delta connected to the Aral Sea, but today=20 extensive diversion of its waters for irrigation=20 means that it runs dry in the intervening desert. Further north can be seen a dark, elongated water=20 body, its southern side dusted with snow. This is=20 the human-made Lake Aydarkul in southeast=20 Uzbekistan. It has a length of 140 km. Lake Aydarkul was formed during Soviet times by=20 water from Kazahstan's Chardara dam across the=20 Syr Darya River being diverted into a natural=20 feature called the Arnassay Depression. The Syr Darya River flows northwest towards the=20 Aral Sea (part of its course through snow-dusted=20 plains can be seen by clicking to see the full,=20 high-resolution image) although like the Amu=20 Darya River further south it nowadays dries up long before reaching it. This is part of an image acquired on 5 January=20 2006 by Envisat's Medium Resolution Imaging=20 Spectrometer (MERIS) working in Reduced=20 Resolution mode. It has a spatial resolution of=20 1200 m and a width of 1345 km. Winter snow blankets the heights of the Pamir=20 Mountains and the Hindu Kush in this Envisat=20 image acquired over Central Asia, the snow cover=20 extending to surrounding desert lowlands. Full story: http://www.esa.int/esaEO/SEMIZRMZCIE_index_0.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Sun Jan 22 15:22:07 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29832 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2006 23:22:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2006 23:22:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.70) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jan 2006 23:22:06 -0000 Received: from [216.175.69.13] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1F0oV8-0004V5-EW; Sun, 22 Jan 2006 18:20:07 -0500 To: "Zakk DUFFANY" Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 15:19:41 -0800 Message-ID: <021501c61faa$59303230$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7945e6df6fe17810fb52fda9635ce7385d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: Man as Thinker -- Mind Consciousness Intelligence X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=rMle_AQeg9mxXo21Jj5t6M2j5qWDtyAEHsPI3PfoAXS8sA X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 1/22/2006 3:06 PM =20 Friends: =20 I have read a number of interesting comments concerning man=92s intelligenc= e and the use of mind. =20 Perhaps some of these theosophical doctrines and ideas may be of help? =20 Best wishes,. =20 Dallas =20 =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 =20 SOME BASIC CONCEPTS =20 =20 Theosophical doctrines draw our attention to some basic concepts:-- =20 =20 1. The Universe is All. IT has no limits, either in space=20=20 or in time. It is Immortal. It is Life. =20 =20 2. The Universe operates under cyclic Law. Law cannot be broken. It supports universal progression. Morally=20 It can be said to provide justice and compassion to=20 all beings. Universe =3D Nature in tot= o. =20 =20 3. Each being is a unit of Life. In its essence it is a ray of the Universal One. The unit is variously = =20 called" Monad, or "Life-atom," etc... it is a "perpetual motion machine" and is an immortal entity,=20 it passes through all evolutionary processes,=20 acquiring intelligence and experience. It is analogous to a solar system, or to a galaxy. =20 =20 =20 4. Every being shares in the immortality of the One in its=20 essence. It therefore cannot be destroyed or=20 annihilated as a Unit of Life. Life or energy is universal, and in its diversity it animates every "unit of life." =20 =20 5. In essence each "part" (Unit of Life), is united=20 through 'electro-magnetic' links with all others. There is one whole; only the 'units' seem to be=20 separate, divided from one-another in terms of our gross perceptions of "matter." Their unity is the basis for cooperation expressed in brief as=20 Universal Brotherhood. =20 =20 5. To make a physical form each 'unit' draws together other units of lesser experience than itself on the "Ladder of Being." In doing that it makes itself=20 responsible for their growth and well-being. Just as a "teacher" makes himself responsible for the progress of many pupils. It should be noted that while the "Teacher" offers instruction based on = =20 his experience, it is the responsibility of the "pupils" to test and adopt it when they are=20 satisfied as to its accuracy. We call this, in general terms : Evolution, when viewed as a whole. =20 =20 6. Any "form," serves temporarily as a place for those = =20 beings of lesser experience to acquire more ex-=20 perience and thus have opportunity to "advance." Under the operation of LAW, Karma, they acquire, each in its own way, a wider experience, a higher=20 degree of consciousness. All those who have not yet reached the "human-mind" state, are called = =20 non-self-conscious "life-atoms." They are in-=20=20=20=20=20=20 cipient men-to-be. They inform for the moment, the elemental, mineral, vegetable and animal = =20 kingdoms, or divisions, of Nature. =20 =20 7. When the level of self-consciousness (mind, manas, man, = =20 soul) is achieved by any of the "lives," it proceeds further, as a human being, through the process of reincarnation, using many successive physical bodies. All live in the same framework of law, progression and mutual support. The = =20 whole evolutionary scheme is a vast brotherhood. In the man-mind condition/stage, progress is by trial/error, and thus the awareness or attentive faculty is developed as the individual studies=20 the operation of universal laws operating in and around him. =20 =20 8. Like the Universe, man is seven-fold in constitution: =20 1. Spirit - Atman, (a "Ray" of the Divine. =20 2. Discrimination-Intuition-Conscience=20 - Buddhi, ( memory of experiences) =20 3. Thinking, Intellection, Reason, = =20 - Mind - Manas, (choice & free will =20 4. Emotion, Sensation, Selfishness -=20=20=20=20=20=20 - Kama, ( desire, passion ) =20 5. Vitality, Life-energy, magnetism -=20=20=20=20=20=20 - Prana, Jiva (vitality, life-force) =20 6. Electro-magnetic model form -=20 - Astral body, (electro-magnetic form) =20 7. Physical Body. (Known to us.) =20 =20 9. The Universe, Man, and all other beings go through an=20 evolutionary cycle which is seven-fold, covering an immense time, during which each being passes through every one of the seven phases that this seven-fold scheme provides, so that each may secure the highest degree of perfection by its own experiences and voluntary decisions. All progress is by self-effort. [ Very much as in our educational system.] =20 =20 10. The self-conscious man, in which Manas (mind) or self- consciousness is the active principle, makes decisions. Motive actuates Karma. If the decisions are universally-based, 'good' and progress for the unit, and the whole accrues rapidly. Should decisions be self-focused, as opposed to the general good, 'evil' results. Karma thus actuated, teaches the unit through disciplining circumstances what the ideal decisions ought to be. Thus evolution proceeds. All karmic events are the direct result o= f the choices that are individually made. =20=20=20=20 =20 11. Graduates from this "School-of-Life" face the choice or responsibility of becoming, in their turn, "teachers." = =20 That is, of actively assisting in the process of diffusing = =20 and explaining this universal process. They are superior men. [ Similar to the Professors in our Universities.] =20 =20 12. These are designated Sages, Wise Men, Adepts, = =20 Masters-of-Wisdom, Arhats, Bodhisattvas, Buddhas, Dhyan Chohans, Tathagatas, Prophets, etc... [ In history we may = =20 name Jesus, Gautama the Buddha, Krishna, Pythagoras, Lao = =20 Tse, Plato, Shankaracharya, Apollonius of Tyana, and many = =20 others.] they all came as reformers, and if their original teachings are compared it will be found that they all=20 taught the same metaphysical doctrines and practical=20 ethics. =20 =20 13. The process of securing experience by mankind is=20 called reincarnation. The "Life-atom" that is self- conscious, or the Real Man, uses a physical body which is assembled, as above described for it to live in. In this life process it not only advances (or recedes) depending on its choices, but at the same time serves to assist and=20 elevate by its example the whole mass of "life-atoms" for which it has specific karmic responsibilities.=20=20=20 =20 At death the man-consciousness passes first into a state called Kama-Loka, where a separation between the = =20 moral, and the immoral occurs. A 2nd "death" occurs in a short while and the immoral side of one's nature is allowed=20 to disintegrate gradually in the astral plane of Kama-Loka. = =20 =20 =20 =20 The higher, immortal Ego, the moral side of our being,=20 passes into a state called Devachan, which has three stages 1st the rupa-loka, where the consciousness of the Ego is occupied with the aspirational and noble feelings, thoughts and actions of the last personal life. This process of = =20 assimilation being over, the MIND-EGO enters a spiritual plane where, united with the "Ray" of the Universal Spirit, it is quasi-omniscient. This 2nd stage is called the arupa-loka [formless stage]. In that condition it is able to review the life last lived within the perspective of all=20 previous lives, and thus trace the line of its Karma. The 3rd stage is one of preparation for a new incarnation, and it begins to draw to itself those personal elements=20 (skandhas) which will be used to make up its new=20 personality.=20 =20 =20 DEVACHAN =20 =20 A brief, concise and helpful description of Devachan is found reprinte= d on p. 258-9 of PRACTICAL OCCULTISM=20 by W. Q. Judge: =20 "...Devachan is a state where the Ego enjoys and does not suffer, suffering being reserved for the earth life. It is not a question of memory strictly speaking, but is a state where the causes generated on this earth which can exhaust in no other state, do so exhaust themselves, leaving the causes relating to this plane of earth life to be afterwards exhausted here, and a= s it is, like this life, a state of illusion, the Ego naturally enlarges all its conceptions of what it thought best and highest when it was alive, for such are the causes that relate to that state." WQJ--Pract. Occ. p. 258-9 =20 He published in the Path for May-June 1890: "Notes on Devachan" [ reprinted p. 242, Theosophical Articles and Notes.] Here, the whole scheme as it operates in Nature is outlined. =20 Two other articles will be found in the same book: "The Worship of th= e Dead," p. 236, Path Aug. 1889), and "Kama-Loka -- Suicides--Accidental Deaths," p. 239, Path Nov. 1889). Devachan is incidentally mentioned or implied therein.=20=20 =20 =20 Earlier in that book are three articles written and published under HPB's editorship in The Theosophist, Aug. 1883, p.17: "The Real and the Unreal;" p. 23:- "Dream Life;" p. 29: and "The Various States of Devachan." =20 The last article has particular reference to the states called: Rupa and Arupa in Devachan. [ p.32 in particular ] =20 "As physical existence has its cumulative intensity from infancy to prime, and its diminishing energy thenceforward to dotage and death, so the dream-life of devachan is lived correspondentially...[bottom] As in actual earth-life, so there is for the Ego in devachan--the first flutter of psychic life, the attainment of prime, the gradual exhaustion of force passing into semi-unconsciousness, gradual oblivion and lethargy, total oblivion and--not death but birth: birth into another personality, and the resumption of action which daily begets new congeries of causes, that must be worked out in another term of Devachan, and still another physical rebirth as a (196) new personality..." M L p. 195 =20 "Who in the West knows anything of true Sahalo-Kadhatu, the mysterious Chiliocosm out of the many regions of which but three can be given out to the outside world, the Tribhuvana (three worlds) namely: Kama, Rupa, and Arupa-Lokas." M L p. 199 =20 Lower in the same page we find:--=20 =20 "...the sensations, perceptions and ideation of a devachanee in Rupa-Loka, will of course, be of a less subjective nature than they would b= e in Arupa-Loka, in both of which the devachanic experiences will vary in their presentation to the subject-entity, not only as regards form, color, and substance, but also in their formative potentialities. But not even th= e most exalted experience of a monad in the highest devachanic state in Arupa-Loka (the last of the seven states)--is comparable to that perfectly subjective condition of pure spirituality from which the monad emerged to "descend into matter," and to which at the completion of the grand cycle it must return. [ on to p. 200]...The "reward provided by nature for men who are benevolent in a large, systematic way" and who have not focused their affections upon an individual or specialty, is that--if pure--they pass the quicker for that through the Kama and Rupa Lokas into the higher sphere of Tribhuvana, since it is one where the formulation of abstract ideas and the consideration of general principles fill the thought of its occupants." M L p. 199 =20 Tribhuvana is in the T. Glossary, p. 338, but there is not much given. Trikaya, and Trailokya ( p. 336 ) will be found to have some relevancy. There we come across the equivalents: Rupadhatu, and Arupadhatu. =20 In her article The Mysteries of After Life, ( HPB Articles, Vol. II, 203 ) HPB writes:=20=20 =20 "The spiritual Ego of man moves in Eternity like a pendulum between the hours of life and death. But if these hours marking the period= s of terrestrial and spiritual life are limited in their duration, and if the very number of such stages in Eternity between sleep and awakening, illusio= n and reality, has its beginning and its end, on the other hand the spiritual "Pilgrim" is eternal.=20=20 =20 "Therefore are the hours of his post-mortem life--when, disembodied he stands face to face with truth and not the mirages of his transitory earthly existences during the period of that pilgrimage which we call "the cycle of rebirths"--the only reality in our conception..." HPB Art. II 203 =20 =20 "Every Spiritual Individuality has a gigantic evolutionary journe= y to perform, a tremendous gyratory progress to accomplish...from first to last of the man-bearing planets, as on each of them, the monad has to pass through seven successive races of man...Each of the 7 races send 7 ramifyin= g branchlets from the Parent Branch: and through each of these in turn man has to evolute before he passes on to the next higher race; and that seven times...The branchlets typify varying specimens of humanity--physically and spiritually--and no one of us can miss one single rung of the ladder...Ther= e are other and innumerable manvantaric chains of globes bearing intelligent beings--both in and out of our solar system--the crowns or apexes of evolutionary being in their respective chains, some--physically and intellectually--lower, others immeasurably higher than the man of our chain." M L p. 119 =20 =20 In magazine Theosophy, for July 1932, there appeared a series of articles on "Death and Rebirth." That which is most significant in this study appears on p. 391-3 of Vol. 20 of this journal, and should be carefully compared with those other references given here, and elsewhere, i= n The Key to Theosophy, The Ocean of Theosophy, and a number of relevant articles.=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Nature of Consciousness--Monad--Man's Evolutionary Rounds =20 =20 "...Man (physically) is a compound of all the kingdoms, and spiritually--his individuality is no worse for being shut up within the casing of an ant than it is for being inside a king. It is not the outward or physical shape that dishonors and pollutes the five principles--but the mental perversity. Then it is but at his fourth round when arrived at the full possession of his Kama-energy and is completely matured, that man becomes fully responsible, as at the sixth he may become a Buddha and at the seventh before the Pralaya--a "Dhyan Chohan."...He starts downward as a simply spiritual entity--an unconscious seventh principle (a Parabrahm in contradistinction to Para-parabrahm)--with the germs of the other six principles lying latent and dormant in him...(76) [ follows a description o= f stages of differentiation, round by round, a kind of 'gestation' process ]...Volition and consciousness are at the same time self-determining and determined by causes, and the volitions of man, his intelligence and consciousness will awake but when his (77) fourth principle Kama is matured and completed by its (seriatim) contact with the Kamas or energizing forces of all the forms man has passed through in his previous three rounds. The present mankind is at its fourth round (...as a genus...)...so the individual entities in them are unconsciously to themselves performing thei= r local earthly sevenfold cycles--hence the vast difference in the degrees of their intelligence, energy and so on. Now every individuality will be followed on its ascending arc by the Law of retribution--Karma and death accordingly. The perfect man or the entity which reaches full perfection, (each of his seven principles being matured) will not be reborn here. His local terrestrial cycle is completed...(The incomplete entities have to be reborn or reincarnated)...On their fifth round after a partial Nirvana when the zenith of the grand cycle is reached, they will be held responsible henceforth in their descents from sphere to sphere, as they will have to appear on this earth as a still more perfect and intellectual race. This downward course has not begun but will soon...The above is the rule. The Buddhas and Avatars form the exception as verily we have yet some Avatars left to us on earth." M L p. 75-77 =20 =20 =20 Absorption of Lower Principles into Higher Ones after Death =20 =20 "The world of effects are not lokas or localities. They are th= e shadow of the world of causes their souls--worlds having like men their seven principles which develop and grow simultaneously with the body. Thus the body of man is wedded to and remains for ever within the body of his planet; his individual jivatma life principle that which is called in physiology (72) animal spirits returns after death to its source--Fohat; his linga shariram will be drawn into Akasa; his kamarupa will recommingle with the Universal Sakti--the Will-Force, or universal energy; his 'animal soul' borrowed from the breath of Universal Mind will return to the Dhyan Chohans; his sixth principle--whether drawn into or ejected from the matri= x of the Great Passive Principle must remain in its own sphere--either as par= t of the crude material or as an individualized entity to be reborn in a higher world of causes. The seventh will carry it from the Devachan and follow the new Ego to its place of re-birth..." M.L. p. 71-2 =20 =20 =20 After Death:--Pure Spirits cannot Communicate, but can be Visited in Spirit =20 =20 "... but, you are mistaken when adding to the above the assurance that 'the spirits of the departed hold direct psychic communication with Souls that are still connected with a human body'--for, they do not."...I trust you have given up the queer idea...that there can possibly be human intelligences inhabiting purely spiritual regions ?...However ethereal and purified of gross matter they may be, the pure Spirits are still subject to the physical and universal laws of matter. They cannot if even they would span the abyss that separates their worlds from ours. They can be visited in Spirit, their Spirit cannot descend and reach us. They attract, they cannot be attracted, their Spiritual polarity being an insuperable difficulty in the way." Mahatma Letters, p. 45 =20 =20 "You want to know why it is deemed supremely difficult if not utterly impossible for pure disembodied Spirits to communicate with men through mediums...=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20 (a) On account of the antagonistic atmospheres=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 respectively surrounding these worlds; (b) Of the entire dissimilarity of physiological and=20=20=20=20=20 spiritual conditions; and -- (c) Because that chain of worlds I have just been telling you about, is not only an epicycloid but an elliptical orbit of existences, having, as every ellipse, not one but two points--two foci, which can never approach each other; Man being at one focus of it and pure Spirit at the other...bu= t there is still another and far mightier impediment...the concatenation of worlds of Causes and worlds of Effects, the latter--the direct result produced by the former. Thus it becomes evident that every sphere (48) of Causes and our Earth is one--is not only interlinked with, and surrounded by, but actually separated from its nearest neighbor--the higher sphere of Causality--by an impenetrable atmosphere (in its spiritual sense) of effect= s bordering on, and even interlinking, never mixing with--the next sphere: for one is active, the other--passive, the world of causes positive, that o= f effects--negative..." M.L. p. 45 =20 =20 =20 Devachan or 'Gestation' Spheres Between Births =20 =20 "The intermediary spheres, being but the projected shadows of the Worlds of Causes--are negatived by the last. They are the great haltin= g places, the stations in which the new Self-Conscious Egos to be--the self-begotten progeny of the old and disembodied Egos of our planet--are gestated." M.L. p. 48 =20 =20 =20 =20 Kama-Loka -- Rupa-Loka and Arupa-Loka =20 =20 "The speculations of the Western mind have hitherto scarcely ever depicted any higher future life than that of the Kama and Rupa lokas, or th= e lower, intra-terrestrial "spirit-worlds."...beings are divided into 3 classes of--(1) Kamawachera, or those who are still under the dominion of the passions in Kamaloka; (2) Rupawachera, or those who have progressed to a higher stage, but still retain vestiges of their old form in Rupa loka; and (3) Arupa lokas of the highest Devachan. All depends on the degree of the monad's spirituality and aspirations. The astral body of the 4th principle--called Kama, because inseparable from Kama loka, the monad has to work itself free of the still finer yet equally potent attractions of it= s Manas before it ever reaches in its series of Devachanic states, the upper-Arupa regions. Therefore there are various degrees of Devachanees. In those of the Arupa lokas the entities are as subjective and truly "not even as material as that ethereal body-shadow--the Mayavirupa." And yet even there, we affirm there is still "actual companionship." But only very few reach there skipping the lower degrees. There are those Devachanees, men of the highest moral caliber and goodness when on earth, who, owing to their sympathy for old intellectual researches and especially for unfinishe= d mental work, are for centuries in the Rupa-lokas in a strict Devachanic isolation--literally so, since men and loved relatives have all vanished ou= t of sight before this intense and purely spiritual passion for intellectual pursuit. For an example of the study-bound...condition, take the mental state of the dying Berzelius...despair that his work should be interrupted by death. This is Tanha (Hindu Trishna) or an unsatisfied yearning which must exhaust itself before the entity can move on to the purely a-rupa condition. A provision is made for every case, and in each case it is created by the dying man's last, uppermost desire. The scholar who has mainly lived under the influence of manas, and for the pleasure of developing his highest physical intelligence, kept absorbed in the mysterie= s of the material universe, will still be magnetically held by his mental attractions to scholars and their work, (33) influencing and being influenced by them subjectively--(though in a manner quite different from that known in seance-rooms and by mediums), until the energy exhausts itsel= f and Buddhi becomes the only regnant influence. The same rule applies to al= l the activities, whether of passion or sentiment, which entangle the traveling monad (the Individuality) in the relationships of any given birth= . The disincarnate must consecutively mount each ring of the ladder of being upward from the earthly subjective to the absolutely subjective. And when this limited Nirvanic state of Devachan is attained, the entity enjoys it and its vivid though spiritual realities until that phase of Karma is satisfied and the physical attraction to the next earth-life asserts itself...According to the Esoteric Doctrine this evolution is not viewed as the extinguishment of individual consciousness but its infinite expansion. The entity is not obliterated, but united with the universal entity, and it= s consciousness becomes able not merely to recall the scenes of one of its earth-evolved Personalities, but each of the entire series around the Kalpa= , and then those of every other Personality. In short from being finite it becomes infinite consciousness...The record of those relationships imperishably endures in the Akasa, and they can always be reviewed when in any birth, the being evolves his latent spiritual powers to the "4th stage of Dhyana;"...when the personal links--magnetic or psychic, as one may prefer to call them--binding the Devachanee to other entities of that next previous life, whether relatives, friends, or family, are worn out, he is free to move on in his cyclic path. Were this obliteration of personal tie= s not a fact, each being would be traveling around the Kalpa entangled in the meshes of his past relationships with his myriad fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers, wives, etc., etc., of his numberless births: a jumble indeed! ..." Theos Articles. & Notes p. 32-4 =20 =20 =20 Bardo - Inter-birth State - Rupa-Loka - Rebirth =20 =20 "Bardo" is the period between death and rebirth--and may last from a few years to a kalpa. It is divided into three sub-periods (1) whe= n the Ego delivered of its mortal coil enters into Kama-Loka (the abode of Elementaries); (2) when it enters into its "gestation State" [Devachan]; (3) when it is reborn in the Rupa-Loka of Deva-Chan. Sub-period (1) may last from a few minutes to a number of years...sub-period (2) is "very long;"... yet proportionate to the Ego's spiritual stamina; sub-period (3) lasts in proportion to the good Karma, (106) after which the monad is again reincarnated...an Ego is borne thither then begins fading out and finally "dies," i.e., falls into that unconscious condition which precedes rebirth; and... they leave the world of bliss to be reborn in a world of causes." M L p. 105-6 =20 =20 Devachan -- Sukhavati =20 "The Deva-Chan, or land of "Sukhavati," is allegorically (100) described by our lord Buddha as follows [follows description translated ] ..." M L p. 99-100 =20 =20 "Who goes to Deva Chan ?" The personal Ego of course, but beatified, purified, holy. Every Ego--the combination of the sixth and seventh principles--which, after the period of unconscious gestation is reborn into the Deva-Chan, is of necessity as innocent and pure as a new-born babe. The fact of his being (101) reborn at all, shows the preponderance of good over evil in his old personality. And while the Karm= a (of evil) steps aside for the time being to follow him in his future earth-reincarnation, he brings along with him but the Karma of his good deeds, words, and thoughts into this Deva-Chan...all those who have not slipped down into the mire of unredeemable sin and bestiality--go to Deva-Chan. They will have to pay for their sins, voluntary and involuntary= , later on. Meanwhile they are rewarded; receive the effects of the causes produced by them." =20 Of course it is a state, one, so to say, of intense selfishness= , during which an Ego reaps the reward of his unselfishness on earth. He is completely engrossed in the bliss of all his personal earthly affections, preferences and thoughts, and gathers in the fruit of his meritorious actions. No pain, no grief nor even the shadow or a sorrow comes to darken the bright horizon of his unalloyed happiness: for, it is a state of perpetual "Maya."...Since the conscious perception of one's personality on earth is but an evanescent dream that sense will be equally that of a dream in the Deva-Chan--only a hundred fold intensified. So much so, indeed, tha= t the happy Ego is unable to see through the veil the evils, sorrows and woes to which those it loved on earth may be subjected to. It lives in that sweet dream with its loved ones--whether gone before, or yet remaining on earth; it has them near itself, as happy, as blissful and as innocent as the disembodied dreamer himself; and yet, apart from rare visions, the denizens of our gross planet feel it not. It is in this, during such a condition of complete Maya that the Souls or astral Egos of pure, loving sensitives, laboring under the same illusion, think their loved ones come down to them on earth, while it is their own Spirits that are raised toward= s those in the Deva-Chan. Many of the subjective spiritual communications--most of them when the sensitives are pure minded--are real; but it is most difficult for the uninitiated medium to fix in his mind the true and correct pictures of what he sees and hears...The spirit of the sensitive getting odylised, so to say, by the aura of the Spirit in the Deva-Chan, becomes for a few minutes that departed personality, and writes in the hand writing of the latter, in his language and in his thoughts, as they were during his life time. The two spirits become blended in one; and, the preponderance of one over the other during such phenomena determines the preponderance of personality in the characteristics exhibite= d in such writings, and "trance speaking." M L p. 101 =20 =20 =20 Devachan not Monotonous -- Unaware of Death Event Time spent in Kama-Loka =20 =20 "Love and Hatred are the only immortal feelings, the only survivors from the wreck of Ye-damma, of the phenomenal world. Imagine yourself in Deva-Chan with those you may have loved with such immortal love...--a perfect blank for everything else relating to your interior, social, political, literary and social life. And then, in the face of that spiritual, purely cogitative existence, of that unalloyed felicity which, i= n proportion with the intensity of the feelings that created it, lasts from a few to several thousand years,--call it the "personal remembrance of A.P.S."--if you can.=20=20 =20 Dreadfully monotonous!--you may think.--Not in the least--I answer. Have you experienced monotony during--say--...the moment of highest bliss you have ever felt?--Of course not...where there is no consciousness of an external world there can be no discernment to mark differences, hence,--no perception of contrasts of monotony or variety; nothing in short, outside that immortal feeling of love and sympathetic attractions whose seeds are planted in the fifth [manas], whose plants blossom luxuriantly in and aroun= d the fourth [kama], but whose roots have to penetrate deep into the sixth [buddhi] principle, if it would survive the lower groups...we create ourselves our devachan as our avitchi while yet on earth, and mostly during the latter days and even moments of our intellectual, sentient lives. That feeling (128) which is the strongest in us at that supreme hour; when, as in a dream the events of a long life, to their minutest details, are marshaled in the greatest order in a few seconds in our vision, (FN.: That vision takes place when a person is already proclaimed dead. The brain is the last organ that dies.)--that feeling will become the fashioner of our bliss or woe, the life principle of our future existence. In the latter we have no substantial being, but only a present and momentary existence,--whose duration has no bearing upon, as no effect, or relation t= o its being...The real full remembrance of our lives will come but at the end of the minor cycle--not before. In Kama Loka those who retain their remembrance, will not enjoy it at the supreme hour of recollection. --Those who know they are dead in their physical bodies--can only be adepts or--sorcerers; and these two are exceptions to the general rule. Both having been "co-workers with nature," the former for good, the latter--for bad, in her work of creation and in that of destruction, they are the only ones who may be called immortal--in the Kabalistic and the esoteric sense o= f course. Complete or true immortality,--which means an unlimited sentient existence, can have no breaks and stoppages, no arrest of Self-consciousness. And even the shells of those good men whose page will not be found missing in the great Book of Lives at the threshold of the Great Nirvana, even they will regain their remembrance and an appearance of Self-consciousness, only after the 6th [buddhi] and 7th [atma] principles with the essence of the 5th [manas] (the latter having to furnish the material for even that partial recollection of personality which is necessary for the object in Deva-Chan)--have gone to the gestation period, not before...Thus, when a man dies, his "Soul" (5th prin.) becomes unconscious and loses all remembrance of things internal as well as external. Whether his stay in Kama Loka has to last but a few moments, hours, days, weeks, months or years; whether he died a natural or a violen= t death; whether it occurred in his young or old age, and, whether the Ego was good, bad, or indifferent,-- his consciousness leaves him as suddenly a= s the flame leaves the wick when, blown out. When life has retired from the last particle in the brain matter, his perceptive faculties become extinct forever, his spiritual powers of cognition and volition--(all those faculties in short, which are neither inherent in, nor acquirable by organi= c matter)--for the time being. His (129) Mayavi Rupa may be often thrown int= o objectivity, as in the cases of apparitions after death ..." M L, p. 127-129 =20 =20 "...there are great varieties in the Deva-Chan states...As many varieties of bliss, as on earth there are shades of perception and of capability to appreciate such reward. It is an ideated paradise, in each case of the Ego's own making, and by him filled with the scenery, crowded with the incidents, and thronged with the people he would expect to find in such a sphere of comprehensive bliss. And it is that variety which guides the temporary personal Ego into the current which will lead him to be rebor= n in a lower or higher condition in the next world of causes. Everything is so harmoniously adjusted in nature--especially in the subjective world, tha= t no mistake can be ever committed by the Tathagatas--or Dhyan Chohans--who guide the impulses."=20=20 M L p. 102 =20 =20 Food for Devachanic Reflection -- Last Thoughts =20 =20 "Very true that "moment" lasts from the first to the last; but then it lasts but as the key-note of the whole harmony, a definite tone of appreciable pitch, around which cluster and develop in progressive variations desires, hopes, dreams, which, in connection with that particula= r "moment" had ever crossed the dreamer's brain during his life-time, without having ever found their realization on earth, and which he now finds fully realized in all their vividness in devachan, without ever suspecting that all the blissful reality is but the progeny begotten by his own fancy, the effects of the mental causes produced by himself. =20 "That particular one moment which will be most intense and uppermost in the thought of his dying brain at the time of dissolution will of course regulate all the other "moments;" still the latter--minor and less vivid though they be--will be there also, having their appointed plan in the phantasmagorical marshaling of past dreams, and must give variety to the whole. No man on earth, but has some decided predilection if not a domineering passion; no person, however humble and poor--and often because of all that--but indulges in dreams and desires unsatisfied though these be= . Is this monotony? Would you call such variations ad infinitum on the one theme, and that theme modeling itself, on, and taking color and its definit= e shape from, that group of desires which was the most intense during life "a blank destitution of all knowledge...?" M L 192 =20 =20 '...Yes, certainly there is "a change of occupation," a continual change in Devachan, just as much--and far more--as there is in th= e life of any man or woman who happens to follow [in] his or her whole life one sole occupation whatever it may be; with that difference, that to the Devachanee his special occupation is always pleasant an fills his entire life with rapture. Change then there must be, for that dream-life is but the fruition, the harvest-time of those psychic seed-germs dropped from the tree of physical existence in our moments of dreams and hopes, fancy-glimpses of bliss and happiness stifled in an ungrateful social soil, blooming in the rosy dawn of Devachan, and ripening under its ever fructifying sky. No failures there, no disappointments! If man had but on= e single moment of ideal happiness and experience during his life--as you think--even then, if Devachan exists,--it could not be as you erroneously suppose, the indefinite prolongation of that "single moment," but the infinite developments, the various incidents and events, based upon, and outflowing from, that one "single moment" or moments, as the case may be; all in short that would suggest itself to the "dreamer's" fancy. That one note, as I said, struck from the lyre of life, would form but the Key-note of the being's subjective state, and work out into numberless harmonic tone= s and semi-tones of psychic phantasmagoria. There--all unrealized hopes, aspirations, dreams, become fully realized, and the dreams of the objective become the realities of the subjective existence. And there behind the curtains of Maya its vapors and deceptive appearances are perceived by the adept, who has learnt the great secret how to penetrate thus deeply into th= e Arcana of being." M L 197 =20 =20 =20 Devachan -- Kama-Loka and "Shell" --=20 (Rupa-Loka) -= - Child Deaths =20 =20 "It is a spiritual condition" only as contrasted with our own "material condition," and...it is (103) such degrees of spirituality that constitute and determine the great "varieties" of conditions within the limits of Deva-Chan...as actual Egos, children prematurely dying before the perfection of their septenary Entity do not find their way to Deva-Chan, ye= t all the same the mother's loving fancy finds her children there, without on= e missing that her heart yearns for...man's sixth principle [Buddhi], as something purely spiritual could not exist, or have conscious being in the Deva-Chan, unless it assimilated some of the more abstract and pure of the mental attributes of the fifth principle or animal Soul: its manas (mind) and memory. When man dies his second [ astral body ] and third [ prana ] principles die with him; the lower triad disappears, and the fourth [ kama ], fifth [ manas ], sixth [ buddhi ] and seventh [ atma ] principles form the surviving Quaternary...Thenceforth it is a "death" struggle between the Upper and Lower dualities. If the upper wins, the sixth, having attracted to itself the quintessence of Good from the fifth--its nobler affections, its saintly (though they be earthly) aspirations, and the most Spiritualize= d portions of its mind--follows its divine elder (the 7th) into the "Gestation" State; and the fifth [lower manas ] and fourth [kama] remain i= n association as an empty shell--(the expression is quite correct)--to roam i= n the earth's atmosphere, with half the (104) personal memory gone, and the brutal instincts fully alive for a certain period--an "Elementary" in short= . This is the "angel guide" of the average medium...[ follows description of the annihilation of the personal consciousness, the freeing of the MONAD, which will bear no recollection of the annihilated personal consciousness that has gone ]...The purified monad will neither perceive not remember the series of its past rebirths--which it would, had it gone to the "World of Forms" (rupa-loka)--and its retrospective glance will not perceive even the slightest sign to indicate that if had been. The light of Samma-Sambudh...throws no ray upon that personal life in the series of live= s foregone. To the credit of mankind, I must say, that such an utter obliteration of an existence from the tablets of Universal Being does not occur often enough to make a great percentage...an exception, not the rule.= " M L p.103-4 =20 =20 Monad -- Ego in Devachan -- A Triad =20 "...the sixth [buddhi] and seventh [ atma ] principles apart from the rest constitute the eternal imperishable, but also unconscious "Monad." to awaken (105) in it to life the latent consciousness, especially that of personal individuality, requires the monad plus the highest attributes of the fifth--the "animal Soul;" and it is that which makes the ethereal Ego that lives and enjoys the bliss of Deva-Chan. Spirit, or the unalloyed emanations of the ONE--the latter forming with the seventh and sixth principles the highest triad--neither of the emanations are capable o= f assimilating but that which is good, pure and holy; hence, no sensual, material or unholy recollection can follow the purified memory of the Ego t= o the region of Bliss. The Karma for these recollections of evil deeds and thought will reach the Ego when it changes its personality in the following world of causes. The Monad, or the "Spiritual Individuality," remains untainted in all cases. "No sorrow or Pain for those born there (in the Rupa-Loka of Deva-Chan); for this is the Pure-land. All the regions in Space possess such lands (Sakwala), but this land of Bliss is the most pure." M L p. 104-5 =20 =20 Monad : Source of Personalities -- Personality -- Individuality =20 "...the many personal entities blended in one Individuality--th= e long string of lives emanating from the same Immortal Monad. You will have to remember them:-- =20 1. The Paccika Yana--(in Sanskrit "Pratyeka") means literally --the "Personal vehicle" or personal Ego, a combi- nation of the five lower principles. While -- 2. The Amita-Yana--(in Sanskrit "Amrita") is translated:--"The immortal vehicle," or the Individuality, the Spiritual=20 Soul, or the Immortal monad--a combination of the fifth, sixth and seventh." M L p. 114 =20 =20 =20 Time in Devachan -- Kama-Loka -- Rupa-Loka -- 7 Classes of Dwellers in Subjective Spheres =20 =20 "(Question: And for how long? Does this state of spiritual beatitude endure for years? for decades? for centuries? )=20=20 =20 Answer: "For years, decades, centuries and millenniums, of te= n times multiplied by something more. It all depends upon the duration of Karma...Every effect must be proportionate to the cause. And, as man's terms of incarnate existence bear but a small proportion to his periods of inter-natal existence in the manvantaric cycle, so the good thoughts, words= , and deeds of any one of these "lives" on a globe are causative of effects, the working out of which requires far more time than the evolution of the causes occupied..."Between the Kama-Loka and the Rupa-Loka there is a locality, the dwelling of 'Mara' (Death)...(lokas are not heavens but localities or abodes)...Devas into two classes--and called them the "Rupa-devas" and the "Arupa-devas" (the "form"--or objective, and the "formless" or subjective Dhyan Chohans;...the same for his class of "men,"...All these are: =20 1. "Rupa-devas" -- Dhyan Chohans, =93Wise Men=94 having forms; =20 2. "Arupa-Devas" " " having no forms;=20=20=20 =93Wise Men=94 [Nirmanakayas] Ex-men. =20 3. "Pisachas" -- (two principled) ghosts.=20 (see p. 110 described) =20 4. "Mara-rupas" -- Doomed to death (3 principled). =20 5. Asuras--Elementals--having human form=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20 6. Beasts-- " 2nd class--animal Elemental=20=20 Future men. =20 7. Rakshasas (Demons) Souls or Astral Forms of sorcerers; = =20 men who have reached the apex of knowl- edge in the forbidden art. Dead or alive they have, so to say cheated nature; but it is only temporary--unti= l our planet goes into obscuration, after which they have nolens volens to be annihilated. =20 It is these seven groups that form the principal divisions of the=20 Dwellers of the subjective world around us." M L p. 107 =20 =20 =20 Kama-Loka -- 7-fold =20 =20 "...the seven lokas of the "Kama-Loka"...the seventh, the "Territory of Doubt."...Every such "world" within the Sphere of Effects has a Tathagata, or "Dhyan Chohan"--to protect and watch over, not to interfere with it." M L p. 108=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 (see Theosophical Articles & Notes, p 244) =20 =20 =20 States of Spirituality and Avitchi -- Rupa-Loka =20 =20 "From "Sukhavati" down to the "Territory of Doubt" there is a variety of Spiritual States;...and even of Avitchi--the "Hell" from which there is no return (see FN)...As soon as it has stepped outside the Kama-Loka, and crossed the "Golden (109) Bridge" leading to the "Seven Golden Mountains" the Ego can confabulate no more, with easy-going mediums. No "Earnest" or "Joey" has ever returned from the Rupa Loka--let alone the Arupa Loka--to hold sweet intercourse with mortals...[ follows explanations about the shells of suicides in Kama-Loka...doomed to persist there "until their natural life-time is finished"...Pisachas, Incubi, Succubi...(111) ]..."=20 (see Theos. Articles & Notes, p. 236) M L p. 108-111 =20 =20 =20 Time in Kama-Loka -- Elementaries -- Danger of Mediumship =20 =20 "...The rule is, that a person who dies a natural death, will remain from "a few hours to several short years," within the earth's attraction, i.e., in the Kama-Loka. But exceptions are, in the case of suicides and those who die a violent death in general. Hence, one of such Egos, for instance, who was destined to live--say 80 or 90 years, but who either killed himself or was killed by some accident, let us suppose at the age of 20--would have to pass in the Kama-Loka not "a few years," but in hi= s case 60 or 70 years, as an Elementary, or rather an "earth-walker;" since he is not, unfortunately for him, even a "shell." Happy, thrice happy, (113) are those disembodied entities, who sleep their long slumber and live in dream in the bosom of Space ! And woe to those whose Trishna [desire to live] will attract them to mediums, and woe to the latter, who tempt them with such an easy Upadana [vehicle]... [more details on this]...And now, you may understand why we oppose so strongly Spiritualism and mediumship...(114)...Could the Spiritualists be only made to understand the difference between individuality and personality, between individual and personal immortality and some other truths, they would be more easily persuaded that Occultists may be fully convinced of the monad's immortality= , and yet deny that of the soul--the vehicle of the personal Ego; that they can firmly believe in, and themselves practice spiritual communications and intercourse with the disembodied Egos of the Rupa-Loka, and yet laugh at th= e insane idea of "shaking hands" with a "Spirit" !; that finally, that as th= e matter stands, it is the Occultists and the Theosophists who are the true Spiritualists, while the modern sect of that name is composed simply of materialistic phenomenalists." M L p. 112-4 (see Theosophical Articles & Notes, p. 237-8) =20 =20 =20 Kama-Loka Consciousness -- Proportionate to Merit =20 =20 "The good and pure sleep a quiet blissful sleep, full of happy visions of earth-life and have no consciousness of being already for ever beyond that life. Those who were neither good nor bad, will sleep a dreamless, still a quiet sleep; while the wicked will in proportion to their grossness suffer the pangs of a nightmare lasting years: their thoughts become living things, their wicked passions--real substance, and they receive back on their heads all the misery they have heaped upon others. Reality and fact if described would yield a far more terrible Inferno than even Dante had imagined." M L p.123 =20 =20 =20 Adept Immortality (Across the Arupa-Lokas) =20 "Suffice for you, for the present to know, that a man, an Ego like yours or mine, may be immortal from one to the other Round. Let us sa= y I begin my immortality at the present fourth Round, i.e., having become a full adept (which unhappily I am not) I arrest the hand of Death at will, and when finally (130) obligated to submit to it, my knowledge of the secrets of nature puts me in a position to retain my consciousness and distinct perception of Self as an object of my own reflective consciousness and cognition; and thus avoiding all such dismemberments of principles, that as a rule take place after the physical death of average humanity, I remain as - - - in my Ego throughout the whole series of births and lives across the seven worlds and Arupa-lokas until finally I land again on this earth among the fifth race of men of the full fifth Round beings. I would have been in such case--"immortal" for an inconceivable (to you) long period, embracing many milliards of years. And yet am "I" truly immortal for all that ? Unless I make the same efforts as I do now, to secure for myself another furlough from Nature's Law, - - - will vanish and may becom= e a Mr. Smith or an innocent Babu, when his leave expires. There are men who become such mighty beings, there are men among us who may become immortal during the remainder of the Rounds, and then take their appointed place among the highest Chohans, the Planetary conscious ego-Spirits." Of course the Monad "never perishes whatever happens..." M L p. 129-130 =20 =20 =20 Conscious State of Victims of Accident -- Dreamless Sleep =20 =20 [ Explanation of state of consciousness of violent or accidental death victims .] "...In cases of good and innocent Egos...the latter gravitates irresistibly towards the 6th [buddhi] and 7th [atma ], and thus--either slumbers surrounded by happy dreams, or, sleeps a dreamless profound sleep until the hour strikes...The victim whether good or bad is irresponsible fo= r his death, even if his death were due to some action in a previous life or an antecedent birth; was an act...of the Law of Retribution, still, it was not the direct result of an act deliberately committed by the personal ego of that life during which he happened to be killed. Had he been allowed to live longer he may have atoned for his antecedent sins still more effectually: and even now, the Ego having been made to pay off the debt of his maker (the previous Ego) is free from the blows of retributive justice. The Dhyan Chohans who have no hand in the guidance of the living human Ego, protect the helpless victim when it is violently thrust out of its element into a new one, before it is matured and made fit and ready for it. We tel= l you what we know, for we are made to learn it through personal experience..= . Yes; the victims whether good or bad, sleep, to awake but at the hour of the last Judgment, which is that hour of the supreme struggle between the 6th and the 7th, and the 5th and 4th at the threshold of the gestation state. And even after that, when the 6th and 7th carrying off a portion of the 5th have gone into their Akasic Samadhi [devachan ], even then it may happen that the spiritual spoil from the 5th will prove too weak to be reborn (132) in Deva-Chan; in which case it will there and then reclothe itself in a new body, the subjective "Being" created from the Karma of the victim (or no victim, as the case may be) and enter upon a new earth-existence whether upon this or any other planet [read "Globe"]." M L p. 131-2 =20 =20 "What you were taught is the Rule. [Bear always in mind that there are exceptions...] Good and pure "accidents" sleep in the Akasa, ignorant of their change; very wicked and impure--suffer all the tortures of a horrible nightmare. The majority--neither very good nor very bad, the victims of accident or violence (including murder)--some sleep, others become Nature pisachas [elementals], and while a small minority may fall victims to mediums and derive a new set of skandhas from the medium who attracts them. Small as their number may be, their fate is to be the most deplored." M L p. 132 =20 =20 =20 Motive -- Love, Hatred -- Immediate Rebirth =20 =20 "Motive is everything and man is punished in a case of direct responsibility, never otherwise." M L p,132 =20 =20 "Love and Hatred are the only immortal feelings..." M L p. 127 =20 "Unless a man loves well or hates as well, he will be neither i= n Deva-Chan nor in Avitchi. "Nature spews the lukewarm out of her mouth" means only that she annihilates their personal Egos (not the shells, nor ye= t the 6th principle [buddhi ] ) in the Kama Loka and the Deva-Chan. This doe= s not prevent then from being immediately reborn--and, if their lives were no= t very very bad--there is no reason why the eternal Monad should not find the page of that life intact in the Book of Life."=20=20=20=20 M L p. 134 =20 =20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Kama-Loka - Suicides - Accidental Deaths =20 =20 The Adept states: "We tell you what we know, for we are made t= o learn it through personal experience." ML p. 131 =20 =20 1. SUICIDES:-- =20 =20 Though not separated completely from Buddhi and Atma yet there is a vast gulf until the day when they would have normally died. =20 These two: Atma-Buddhi are passive for the intervening time, (t= o the hour of the last judgment--when the last and final struggle between Atma-Buddhi on one hand and Kama-Manas on the other occurs). (Theos. Articles & Notes, p.239-40) =20 Suicide is death brought on voluntarily and with full and deliberate knowledge of its immediate consequences. TA&N, 240) =20 If, in a fit on insanity a man commits suicide, he falls asleep like any other victim of accident. TA&N (240) = =20 =20 SUICIDE & KAMALOKA =20 =20 p. 48 Not all suicides are alike. Certainly a thoroughly insane person who kills himself is not like one who, while sane and cowardly, does the deed, nor is this last the same as he who from a foolish philosophy or =91t= he want of it cuts off his life.=20 =20 They all differ one from another, and hence their stay in Kama Loka will vary. But in those general cases where the person stays in Kama Loka, the personality, consisting of astral body with the passions and desires, can and does communicate with the living, whether a medium or not. This is exactly the danger of mediumship, of suicide, and of legal murder or execution of criminals. = =20 =20 =20 2. ACCIDENTAL DEATHS:-- =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20 The victim, good or bad, is irresponsible for his death. =20 Even if the death by accident were due to past Karma, it is not the direct result of a personal act of the Ego in this life.=20 =20 The Dhyan-Chohans protect the hapless accident victim when it i= s violently thrust out of its life before it has matured and = =20 been made ready for the new place in a normal way. TA&N, 239 =20 In the case of accidental death, the 2 groups of principles (Atma-Buddhi-Manas) and (Astral-Prana-Kama-Lower Manas) attract each other. TA&N, 239-240 =20 =20 =20 1. In the case of good and innocent egos the lower 4 gravitate irresistibly towards Atma-Buddhi, and thus sleep, =20 1. a dreamless slumber, or=20 =20 2. are surrounded by happy dreams until the hour when death would have normally taken place occurs and the separation betwee= n the "higher" and the "lower" principles occurs just before Devachan ("gestation state"). =20 If at that time Atma-Buddhi carrying the essence of Higher Manasic experience proves to have too little for the operation=20 of the process of "Akasic Samadhi" in Devachan the Manasic=20=20=20=20 principle will reclothe itself in a new body (the direct=20=20=20=20=20=20 result of the remaining Karma of the victim) and enter upon a=20=20=20=20=20 new life on earth. [ Quick reincarnation ? ] TA&N (240) =20 =20 ACCIDENTAL DEATH=20 =20 =20 P. 48 =93=85victims of accidental death and suicides do not remain out o= f Devachan until the time they would have died naturally shall have come.=20 =20 =20 P. 48 Kama loka, where these and all others go, has its grades in the same way as human living states. FORUM ANS. 48 =20 =20 = =20 3. Seance Room "Spirits":-- =20 =20 The only "visitors" at seance rooms as astral forms are: 1. suicides, and =20 2. Elementaries -- Kama-lokic remains & "Black Magi=20=20=20=20=20=20 cians" =20 3. Executed criminals. =20 No pure Spirits visit any seance room. TA&N (240-1) =20 =20 =20 4. Victims of Vicious Indulgence:-- ( life shortening ) =20 =20 The cause of vice receives punishment. Motive IS everything, and man is punished in a case of direct responsibility only. =20 Vicious indulgence can cause an earlier death than provided for under the personal karma of that life. TA&N (240= ) =20 =20 =20 5. Murderers - Executed Persons:-- =20 =20 Under the influence of the last violent thoughts and feelings h= e felt before execution, the executed person will be ever reviewing on the Astral Plane his anger and fear, and will be receiving the impact of the changes made in the lives of others influenced by his acts. TA&N, 240-1 =20 Those who are vicious, and not insane, are only partly killed o= n execution. From the Astral Plane they will be affecting all those who are sensitive enough to "feel and receive" them. =20 Especially at spiritualistic seances. There they project = =20 scenes of blood and punishment into such weak persons, influ- encing them to copy. [ They may also "haunt" astrally by = =20 attraction the place of their crime or of execution.] TA&N 241 =20 At scenes of collective murder, where victims are overwhelmed b= y a group and killed, the struggle and emotional impact may be reenacted several times a year for many years. [ Ex.: Marathon ] Those sensitive to the Astral images will see this. TA&N (241) =20 =20 CAPITAL PUNISHMENT =20 =20 P. 48 - 49 =93=85legal murder or execution of criminals.=20 =20 The last is a very great danger=97 one of the unseen but powerful curses of the times. An executed criminal=92s death is the same as =91that of one who= is accidentally killed in effect, only that it is deliberately done, and=20 =20 =85in most cases the elements of hate, revenge, and anger in the criminal a= re added. His fierce and angry personality=97 compound of astral body and Kama= =97 is thrust suddenly out of life;=20 =20 =85his higher principles wait in upper Kama Loka in a benumbed or torpid state;=20 =20 =85but his personal life flits about the abodes of men, attempting to get revenge or to do other wicked things, and every day injects into the sensitive human natures it meets all its mass of vile and unappeasable thoughts.=20 =20 =85It thus creates picture after picture of murder and hate=85 and the personality of the criminal has definite attractions towards other persons [than Mediums]=85.=20 =20 =85the Theosophist =85knows that one legal execution may and nearly always = does lead to many another sudden murder or suicide=85 as the astral personalitie= s of suicides and executed criminals are in closer touch with us than any other sort of spook =20 =20 P. 49 Mediums are not the only ones affected by these astral personages; =85And as the astral personalities of suicides and executed criminals are i= n closer touch with us than any other sort of spook, it follows that they als= o are more likely to come first to any Spiritualistic s=E9ance.=20 =20 =20 =20 6. INSANITY:-- =20 =20 Suicide and murder can be committed while insane. The period between death of the body and the real death would be passed in sleep. (Theos. Articles & Notes, p. 240 241) =20 =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 =20 Some further references:-- =20 1. HPB Articles VOL. II, pp. 104, 116, 198-203 2. Ocean P. 100; 3. S.D. II 57 fn, 306; 4. Theosophy Mag. Vol. 2, p. 402, 561; 5. Theosophy Mag. Vol. 19, p. 410, 465-7, 506-8; 6. Key p. 163, 185; 7. Theosophical Movement Mag. Vol. 23, p. 281-2 8. HPB Articles Vol. I 494 top 9. HPB TO APS p. 242-56 =20 =20 =20 =20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From leonmaurer@aol.com Sun Jan 22 17:33:54 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30827 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2006 01:33:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jan 2006 01:33:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d21.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.207) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jan 2006 01:33:52 -0000 Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.145.5517c504 (3850) for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2006 20:25:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <145.5517c504.31058a8a@aol.com> Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 20:25:30 EST To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Thunderbird - Mac OS X sub 310 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.144.207 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: leonmaurer@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: [Mind and Brain] meaning and information X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972; y=eRWWreNJ88nhxsMjS8icDalvkOUCsAiZYU1FrARkLJIg8EMV3lE X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cass, I'm not sure I understand how a fetus can react to a visual stimulus from t= he=20 outer world. How would the light reflected from that world penetrate to t= he=20 retinas of the fetal eyes? Besides, I'm not so sure the fetus has yet=20 connected to the mind -- which in itself, would have no direct connection t= o the=20 reflected visual images of the outer world.=20=20=20 I think theosophy teaches, and I tend to agree, that the unborn fetus has n= ot=20 yet attached itself to the higher mind. From a conscious mind standpoin= t=20 -- all it has, apparently, is the instinctive reaction of each of its=20 developing cells, and later, organs, to the immediate environment they are = surrounded=20 by and growing in -- guided by their DNA's encoding that, through its=20 coenergetic fields, are linked directly to the astral form of the developin= g body at=20 each stage of its growth. For that early developmental level of consciousn= ess,=20 there would be no need for a brain, although its lower instinctive mind cou= ld=20 be operative and storing memories of its immediate environmentally causal=20 experiences. Also, it seems obvious to me that, in those early stages of= =20 development, the fetus couldn't have any functioning "neural" connections t= o speak=20 of.=20=20=20 I would think, then, that the developing fetus' only contact with the outer= =20 world would be through the direct physical pressure waves that are transmit= ted=20 to it through the surrounding amnionic fluid. This could include sound wa= ves=20 that are transmitted through the body and the uterus of the mother. But, = I=20 doubt if light waves could get through, or if higher order mind field=20 information could effect the waking consciousness of the fetus. Although,= I don't=20 doubt that the Monad connected to each developing fetus might be dreaming u= ntil=20 it opens its eyes in the outer world... Or that the lower mental field of t= he=20 developing fetus can receive impulses transmitted to it from the conscious = and=20 unconscious thoughts of its mother. This could correspond to the reported= =20 response of a plant to the loving or hateful thoughts directed to it. = =20 Speculatively, all that also could be the cause of the prenatal "engrams" o= r residual=20 memories carried by the growing baby-child into later life that might effec= t=20 its future psychological states of mind. I hope this makes some theosophical sense. Len In a message dated 1/20/06 8:52:08 PM, silva_cass@yahoo.com writes: > Thanks Leon, > I was actually referring to the neurological question that was raised in = the=20 > mindspring group.=A0 Especially in relation to retina connection as the f= oetus=20 > has no eye contact with the world, yet reacts to stimulus from that (unse= en=20 > from the foetus pov)=A0world.=A0 I was trying to make the point that it i= s the=20 > mind and not the brain that=A0 translates the world=A0 of the foetus. >=20 > Cass >=20 > leonmaurer@aol.com wrote: Cass, > Check your previous quote from Isis Unveiled where HPB explains instinct = in > lower life forms (i.e., cells and organs of fetus) as an aspect of univer= sal > consciousness.=A0=A0 From a metaphysical scientific POV (ref: ABC theory)= --=20 > such > instinctive consciousness has no need for a brain to react to impulses fr= om=20 > its > environment.=A0=A0 In such primative forms, their surrounding, transforma= tive, 7 > fold (coadunate but not consubstantial) fields of consciousness exist, as= =20 > does > their zero-points of receptive awareness and responsive will -- that can = act > in accord with the instinctive or archetypal memories carried in their=20 > highest > order field, which is linked directly to the univeral memory fieid (or=20 > akasha, > in theosophical terms). > Lenny >=20 > In a message dated 1/20/06 12:00:38 PM, silva_cass@yahoo.com writes: >=20 >=20 > > Lenny > > What about the foetus, how does it react, before the brain is formed? > > Cass > > > > leonmaurer@aol.com wrote: Thought it might be helpful to see how > > theosophical thinking and reasoning, along with a knowledge of its=20 > metaphysical science, > > can contend with skeptical > > existential materialists and reductive scientists... > > >=20 > (snip) >=20 >=20 >=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Jan 23 04:16:52 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72035 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2006 12:16:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jan 2006 12:16:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.70) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jan 2006 12:16:51 -0000 Received: from [216.175.69.13] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1F10TW-00071n-Jm; Mon, 23 Jan 2006 07:07:11 -0500 To: "AAA-Dal" Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 04:06:54 -0800 Message-ID: <025701c62015$85111890$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79c46780407830fb4df50a167615d79c96350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: Theosophical doctrines draw attention to basic concepts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=HvgrO745z0VRZKrbn16AMbpBd9KAnNwMQPia4vKFk7k1jA X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 BASIC THEOSOPHICAL CONCEPTS=20 Theosophical doctrines draw our attention to some basic concepts:-- =A0 =A0 1.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 The Universe is All.=A0 IT has no limits, either in sp= ace=A0=20 =A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 or in t= ime.=A0 It is Immortal.=A0 It is Life. =A0 =A0 2.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 The Universe operates under cyclic Law.=A0 Law cannot = be =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0broken= .=A0 It supports universal progression.=A0 Morally=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0It can= be said to provide justice and compassion to=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0all be= ings.=A0 Universe =3D Nature in toto. =A0 =A0 3.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Each being is a unit of Life.=A0 In its essence it is a=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 ray o= f the Universal One.=A0 The unit is variously =A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 calle= d" Monad, or "Life-atom," etc... it is a =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 "perp= etual motion machine" and is an immortal entity,=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0it = passes through all evolutionary processes,=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0acq= uiring intelligence and experience. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 It is= analogous to a solar system, or to a galaxy. =A0 =A0 =A0 4.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Every being shares in the immortality of the One in it= s=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0 essence= .=A0 It therefore cannot be destroyed or=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 annih= ilated as a Unit of Life.=A0 Life or energy =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 is un= iversal, and in its diversity it animates =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 every= "unit of life." =A0 =A0 5.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 In essence each "part" (Unit of Life), is united=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 throu= gh 'electro-magnetic' links with all others. =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 There i= s one whole;=A0 only the 'units' seem to be=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 separ= ate, divided from one-another in terms of our =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 gross= perceptions of "matter."=A0 Their unity is the =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 basis= for cooperation expressed in brief as=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Unive= rsal Brotherhood. =A0 =A0 5.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 To make a physical form each 'unit' draws together =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 other= units of lesser experience than itself on the =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 "Ladd= er of Being."=A0 In doing that it makes itself=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 respo= nsible for their growth and well-being.=A0 Just =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 as a = "teacher" makes himself responsible for the =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 progr= ess of many pupils.=A0 It should be noted that =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 while= the "Teacher" offers instruction based on =A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 his exp= erience, it is the responsibility of the =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 "pupi= ls" to test and adopt it when they are=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 satis= fied as to its accuracy.=A0 We call this, in =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 gener= al terms : Evolution, when viewed as a whole. =A0 =A0 6.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Any "form," serves temporarily as a place for those=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 beings = of lesser experience to acquire more ex-=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 perie= nce and thus have opportunity to "advance." =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Under= the operation of LAW, Karma, they acquire, =A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 each = in its own way, a wider experience, a higher=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 degre= e of consciousness.=A0 All those who have not =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 yet r= eached the "human-mind" state, are called =A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 non-s= elf-conscious "life-atoms."=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 They are in-=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 cipie= nt men-to-be.=A0 They inform for the moment, =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 the e= lemental, mineral, vegetable and animal =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 kingd= oms, or divisions, of Nature. =A0 =A0 7.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 When the level of self-consciousness (mind, manas, man= ,=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 soul) i= s achieved by any of the "lives," it=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 proceed= s further, as a human being, through the =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 proce= ss of reincarnation, using many successive =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 physi= cal bodies.=A0 All live in the same framework =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 of la= w, progression and mutual support.=A0 The =A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 whole= evolutionary scheme is a vast brotherhood. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 In th= e man-mind condition/stage, progress is by =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 trial= /error, and thus the awareness or attentive =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 facul= ty is developed as the individual studies=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 the o= peration of universal laws operating in and =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 aroun= d him. =A0 =A0 8.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Like the Universe, man is seven-fold in constitution: =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 1.=A0=A0 Spirit =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 = - Atman, (a "Ray" of the Divine. =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 2.=A0=A0 Discrimination-Intuition-Conscience=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 - Buddhi, ( memory of experiences) =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 3.=A0=A0 Thinking, Intellection, Reason, =A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 - Mind - Manas, (choice & free will =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 4.=A0=A0 Emotion, Sensation, Selfishness - =A0= =A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 - Kama,=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 ( desi= re, passion ) =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 5.=A0=A0 Vitality, Life-energy, magnetism - =A0= =A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 - Prana, Jiva=A0 (vitality, life-force) =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 6.=A0=A0 Electro-magnetic model form -=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 - Astral body,=A0 (electro-magnetic form) =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 7.=A0=A0 Physical Body.=A0 (Known to us.) =A0 =A0 9.=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0The Universe, Man, and all other beings go through an = evolutionary cycle which is seven-fold, covering an immense time, during which each bein= g passes through every one of the seven phases that this seven-fold scheme provides, so that each may secure the highest degree of perfection by its own experiences and voluntary decisions.=A0 All progress is by self-effort.= =A0 [ Very much as in our educational system.] =A0 =A0 10.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 The self-conscious man, in which Manas (mind) or self-consciousness is the active principle, makes decisions.=A0 Motive actuates Karma.=A0 If the decisions are universally-based, 'good' and progr= ess for the unit, and the whole accrues rapidly.=A0 Should decisions be self-focused, as opposed to the general good, 'evil' results.=A0 Karma thus actuated, teaches the unit through disciplining circumstances what the idea= l decisions ought to be.=A0 Thus evolution proceeds.=A0 All karmic events are= the direct result of the choices that are individually made. =A0=A0=A0=20 =A0 11.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Graduates from this "School-of-Life" face the choice = or responsibility of becoming, in their turn, "teachers."=A0 That is, of activ= ely assisting in the process of diffusing and explaining this universal process.=A0 They are superior men. [ Similar to the Professors in our Universities.] =A0 =A0 12.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 These are designated Sages, Wise Men, Adepts, Masters= -of-Wisdom, Arhats, Bodhisattvas, Buddhas, Dhyan Chohans, Tathagatas, Prophets, etc...=20 [ In history we may name Jesus, Gautama the Buddha, Krishna, Pythagoras, Lao =A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Tse, Plato, Shankaracharya, Apollonius of= Tyana, and many others.]=A0 they all came as reformers, and if their original teachings are compared it will be found that they all=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 taught the same metaphysical doctrines an= d practical ethics. =A0 =A0 13.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 The process of securing experience by mankind is=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 called reincarnation.=A0 The "Life-atom" = that is self- =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 conscious, or the Real Man,=A0 uses a phy= sical body which is =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 assembled, as above described for it to l= ive in.=A0 In this =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 life process it not only advances (or rec= edes) depending on =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 its choices, but at the same time serves = to assist and=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 elevate by its example the whole mass of = "life-atoms" for =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 which it has specific karmic responsibili= ties.=A0=A0=20 =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 At de= ath the man-consciousness passes first into a =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 state called Kama-Loka, where a separatio= n between the =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 moral and the immoral occurs.=A0 A =93Sec= ond death" occurs in a =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 short while and the immoral side of one's= nature is allowed=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 to disintegrate gradually in the astral p= lane of Kama-Loka.=A0=20 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 The higher, immortal Ego, the moral side of= our being,=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 passes into a state called Devachan, whic= h has three stages =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 1st the rupa-loka, where the consciousnes= s of the Ego is =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 occupied with the aspirational and noble = feelings, thoughts =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 and actions of the last personal life.=A0= This process of =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 assimilation being over, the MIND-EGO ent= ers a spiritual =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 plane where, united with the "Ray" of the= Universal Spirit, =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 it is quasi-omniscient.=A0 This 2nd stage= is called the =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 arupa-loka [formless stage].=A0 In that c= ondition it is able =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 to review the life last lived within the = perspective of all=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 previous lives, and thus trace the line o= f its Karma.=A0 The =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 3rd stage is one of preparation for a new= incarnation, and =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 it begins to draw to itself those persona= l elements=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 (skandhas) which will be used to make up = its new=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 personality.=20 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 DEVACHAN =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0 A brief, concise and helpful description of Devachan is=20 =A0 "...Devachan is a state where the Ego enjoys and does not suffer, suffering being reserved for the earth life.=A0 It is not a question of memory strict= ly speaking, but is a state where the causes generated on this earth which can exhaust in no other state, do so exhaust themselves, leaving the causes relating to this plane of earth life to be afterwards exhausted here, and a= s it is, like this life, a state of illusion, the Ego naturally enlarges all its conceptions of what it thought best and highest when it was alive, for such are the causes that relate to that state." =A0=A0 WQJ--Pract. Occ. p. 258-9 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0 "As physical existence has its cumulative intensity from infan= cy to prime, and its diminishing energy thenceforward to dotage and death, so the dream-life of devachan is lived correspondentially...[bottom]=A0 As in actu= al earth-life, so there is for the Ego in devachan--the first flutter of psychic life, the attainment of prime, the gradual exhaustion of force passing into semi-unconsciousness, gradual oblivion and lethargy, total oblivion and--not death but birth:=A0 birth into another personality, and t= he resumption of action which daily begets new congeries of causes, that must be worked out in another term of Devachan, and still another physical rebirth as a (196) new personality..."=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 = M L (Barker) p. 195 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Lower in the same page we find:--=20 =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0 "...the sensations, perceptions and ideation of a devachanee i= n Rupa-Loka, will of course, be of a less subjective nature than they would b= e in Arupa-Loka, in both of which the devachanic experiences will vary in their presentation to the subject-entity, not only as regards form, color, and substance, but also in their formative potentialities.=A0 But not even = the most exalted experience of a monad in the highest devachanic state in Arupa-Loka (the last of the seven states)--is comparable to that perfectly subjective condition of pure spirituality from which the monad emerged to "descend into matter," and to which at the completion of the grand cycle it must return. [ on to p. 200]...The "reward provided by nature for men who are benevolent in a large, systematic way" and who have not focused their affections upon an individual or specialty, is that--if pure--they pass the quicker for that through the Kama and Rupa Lokas into the higher sphere of Tribhuvana, since it is one where the formulation of abstract ideas and the consideration of general principles fill the thought of its occupants."=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 M L= (Barker) p. 199 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 "The spiritual Ego of man moves in Eternity lik= e a pendulum between the hours of life and death.=A0 But if these hours marking the peri= ods of terrestrial and spiritual life are limited in their duration, and if the very number of such stages in Eternity between sleep and awakening, illusio= n and reality, has its beginning and its end, on the other hand the spiritual "Pilgrim" is eternal.=A0=20 =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 "Therefore are the hours of his post-mortem lif= e--when, disembodied he stands face to face with truth and not the mirages of his transitory earthly existences during the period of that pilgrimage which we call "the cycle of rebirths"--the only reality in our conception..." =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 HPB Art. II 203 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 "Every Spiritual Individuality has a gigantic e= volutionary journey to perform, a tremendous gyratory progress to accomplish...from first to last of the man-bearing planets, as on each of them, the monad has to pass through seven successive races of man...Each of the 7 races send 7 ramifyin= g branchlets from the Parent Branch:=A0 and through each of these in turn man has to evolute before he passes on to the next higher race;=A0 and that sev= en times...The branchlets typify varying specimens of humanity--physically and spiritually--and no one of us can miss one single rung of the ladder...Ther= e are other and innumerable manvantaric chains of globes bearing intelligent beings--both in and out of our solar system--the crowns or apexes of evolutionary being in their respective chains, some--physically and intellectually--lower, others immeasurably higher than the man of our chain."=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 M L (Barker) p. 119 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Nature of Consciousness--Monad--Man's Evo= lutionary Rounds =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 "...Man (physically) is a compound of all= the kingdoms, and spiritually--his individuality is no worse for being shut up within the casing of an ant than it is for being inside a king.=A0 It is not the outwa= rd or physical shape that dishonors and pollutes the five principles--but the mental perversity.=A0=20 Then it is but at his fourth round when arrived at the full possession of his Kama-energy and is completely matured, that man becomes fully responsible, as at the sixth he may become a=A0 Buddha and at the seventh before the Pralaya--a "Dhyan Chohan."... He starts downward as a simply spiritual entity--an unconscious seventh principle (a Parabrahm in contradistinction to Para-parabrahm)--with the germs of the other six principles lying latent and dormant in him...(76) [ follows a description of stages of differentiation, round by round, a kind of 'gestation' process ]... Volition and consciousness are at the same time self-determining and determined by causes, and the volitions of man, his intelligence and consciousness will awake but when his (77) fourth principle Kama is matured and completed by its (seriatim) contact with the Kamas or energizing forces of all the forms man has passed through in his previous three rounds.=A0=20 The present mankind is at its fourth round (...as a genus...)...so the individual entities in them are unconsciously to themselves performing thei= r local earthly sevenfold cycles--hence the vast difference in the degrees of their intelligence, energy and so on.=A0 Now every individuality will be followed on its ascending arc by the Law of retribution--Karma and death accordingly.=A0=20 The perfect man or the entity which reaches full perfection, (each of his seven principles being matured) will not be reborn here.=A0 His local terrestrial cycle is completed...(The incomplete entities have to be reborn or reincarnated)... On their fifth round after a partial Nirvana when the zenith of the grand cycle is reached, they will be held responsible henceforth in their descent= s from sphere to sphere, as they will have to appear on this earth as a still more perfect and intellectual race.=A0=20 This downward course has not begun but will soon...The above is the rule.= =A0 The Buddhas and Avatars form the exception as verily we have yet some Avatars left to us on earth."=A0 =A0=A0=A0 M L (Barker) p. 75-77 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Absorption of Lower Principles into Highe= r Ones after Death =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 "The world of effects are not lokas or lo= calities.=A0 They are the shadow of the world of causes their souls--worlds having like men their seven principles which develop and grow simultaneously with the body.=A0=20 Thus the body of man [physical form] is wedded to and remains for ever within the body of his planet;=A0 his individual jivatma life principle tha= t which is called in physiology (72) animal spirits returns after death to it= s source--Fohat; =A0his linga shariram [astral body] will be drawn into Akas= a;=A0 his kamarupa will recommingle with the Universal Sakti--the Will-Force, or universal energy;=A0 his 'animal soul' [kama-manas] borrowed from the breat= h of Universal Mind will return to the Dhyan Chohans;=A0 his sixth principle [Buddhi] --whether drawn into or ejected from the matrix of the Great Passive Principle must remain in its own sphere--either as part of the crud= e material or as an individualized entity to be reborn in a higher world of causes.=A0 The seventh [ATMA] will carry it from the Devachan and follow th= e new Ego to its place of re-birth..."=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 M.L. p. 71-2 =A0 =A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 "You want to know why it is deemed suprem= ely difficult if not utterly impossible for pure disembodied Spirits to communicate with men through mediums...=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=20 =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0 (a)=A0 On account of the antagonistic atmospheres =A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 respectively surrounding these worlds; =A0=A0=A0=A0 (b)=A0 Of the entire dissimilarity of physiological and =A0=A0= =A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 spiritual conditions; and -- =A0=A0=A0=A0 (c)=A0 Because that chain of worlds I have just been telling y= ou about, is not only an epicycloid but an elliptical orbit of existences, having, as every ellipse, not one but two points--two foci, which can never approach each other;=A0 Man being at one focus of it and pure Spirit at the other...= but there is still another and far mightier impediment...the concatenation of worlds of Causes and worlds of Effects, the latter -- the direct result produced by the former.=A0 Thus it becomes evident that every sphere (48) o= f Causes and our Earth is one--is not only interlinked with, and surrounded by, but actually separated from its nearest neighbor--the higher sphere of Causality--by an impenetrable atmosphere (in its spiritual sense) of effect= s bordering on, and even interlinking, never mixing with--the next sphere:=A0 for one is active, the other--passive, the world of causes positive, that o= f effects--negative..."=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0 M.L. (Barker) p. 45 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0 =A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0Kama-Loka -- Rupa-Loka and Arupa-Loka =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0 "The speculations of the Western mind have hitherto scarcely e= ver depicted any higher future life than that of the Kama and Rupa lokas, or th= e lower, intra-terrestrial "spirit-worlds."... All depends on the degree of the monad's spirituality and aspirations.=A0=20 The astral body of the 4th principle--called Kama, because inseparable from= =A0 Kama loka, the monad has to work itself free of the still finer yet equally potent attractions of its Manas before it ever reaches in its series of Devachanic states, the upper-Arupa regions.=A0 Therefore there are various degrees of Devachanees.=A0 In those of the Arupa [formless] lokas the entit= ies are as subjective and truly "not even as material as that ethereal body-shadow--the Mayavirupa." =A0And yet even there, we affirm there is sti= ll "actual companionship."=A0 But only very few reach there skipping the lower degrees.=A0=20 There are those Devachanees, men of the highest moral caliber and goodness when on earth, who, owing to their sympathy for old intellectual researches and especially for unfinished mental work, are for centuries in the Rupa-lokas in a strict Devachanic isolation--literally so, since men and loved relatives have all vanished out of sight before this intense and purely spiritual passion for intellectual pursuit...=A0This is Tanha (Hindu= =A0 Trishna) or an unsatisfied yearning which must exhaust itself before the entity can move on to the purely a-rupa condition.=A0 A provision is made f= or every case, and in each case it is created by the dying man's last, uppermost desire.=A0=20 The scholar who has mainly lived under the influence of manas, and for the pleasure of developing his highest physical intelligence, kept absorbed in the mysteries of the material universe, will still be magnetically held by his mental attractions to scholars and their work, (33) influencing and being influenced by them subjectively--(though in a manner quite different from that known in seance-rooms and by mediums), until the energy exhausts itself and Buddhi becomes the only regnant influence.=A0 The same rule appl= ies to all the activities, whether of passion or sentiment, which entangle the traveling monad (the Individuality) in the relationships of any given birth.=A0=20 The disincarnate must consecutively mount each ring of the ladder of being upward from the earthly subjective to the absolutely subjective.=A0 And whe= n this limited Nirvanic state of Devachan is attained, the entity enjoys it and its vivid though spiritual realities until that phase of Karma is satisfied and the physical attraction to the next earth-life asserts itself...According to the Esoteric Doctrine this evolution is not viewed as the extinguishment of individual consciousness but its infinite expansion.= =A0=20 The entity is not obliterated, but united with the universal entity, and it= s consciousness becomes able not merely to recall the scenes of one of its earth-evolved Personalities, but each of the entire series around the Kalpa= , and then those of every other Personality.=A0 In short from being finite it becomes infinite consciousness... The record of those relationships imperishably endures in the Akasa, and they can always be reviewed when in any birth, the being evolves his latent spiritual powers to the "4th stage of Dhyana;"...when the personal links--magnetic or psychic, as one may prefer to call them--binding the Devachanee to other entities of that next previous life, whether relatives, friends, or family, are worn out, he is free to move on in his cyclic path.= =A0 Were this obliteration of personal ties not a fact, each being would be traveling around the Kalpa entangled in the meshes of his past relationship= s with his myriad fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers, wives, etc., etc., of his numberless births:=A0 a jumble indeed! ..."=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= Theos Articles. & Notes p. 32-4 =A0 =A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 "Who goes to Deva Chan ?"=A0 The personal= Ego of course, but beatified, purified, holy.=A0 Every Ego--the combination of the sixth and seventh principles--which, after the period of unconscious gestation is reborn into the Deva-Chan, is of necessity as innocent and pure as a new-born babe.=A0 The fact of his being (101) reborn at all, shows the preponderance of good over evil in his old personality.=A0 And while the Ka= rma (of evil) steps aside for the time being to follow him in his future earth-reincarnation, he brings along with him but the Karma of his good deeds, words, and thoughts into this Deva-Chan...all those who have not slipped down into the mire of unredeemable sin and bestiality--go to Deva-Chan.=A0 They will have to pay for their sins, voluntary and involunta= ry, later on.=A0 Meanwhile they are rewarded;=A0 receive the effects of the cau= ses produced by them." =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Of course it is a state, one, so to say, = of intense selfishness, during which an Ego reaps the reward of his unselfishness on earth.=A0 He i= s completely engrossed in the bliss of all his personal earthly affections, preferences and thoughts, and gathers in the fruit of his meritorious actions.=A0 No pain, no grief nor even the shadow or a sorrow comes to dark= en the bright horizon of his unalloyed happiness:=A0 for, it is a state of perpetual "Maya."...Since the conscious perception of one's personality on earth is but an evanescent dream that sense will be equally that of a dream in the Deva-Chan--only a hundred fold intensified.=A0 So much so, indeed, t= hat the happy Ego is unable to see through the veil the evils, sorrows and woes to which those it loved on earth may be subjected to.=A0 It lives in that sweet dream with its loved ones--whether gone before, or yet remaining on earth;=A0 it has them near itself, as happy, as blissful and as innocent as the disembodied dreamer himself;=A0 and yet, apart from rare visions, the denizens of our gross planet feel it not.=A0 It is in this, during such a condition of complete Maya that the Souls or astral Egos of pure, loving sensitives, laboring under the same illusion, think their loved ones come down to them on earth, while it is their own Spirits that are raised toward= s those in the Deva-Chan.=A0 Many of the subjective spiritual communications--most of them when the sensitives are pure minded--are real;= =A0 but it is most difficult for the uninitiated medium to fix in his mind the true and correct pictures of what he sees and hears...The spirit of the sensitive getting odylised, so to say, by the aura of the Spirit in the Deva-Chan, becomes for a few minutes that departed personality, and writes in the hand writing of the latter, in his language and in his thoughts, as they were during his life time.=A0 The two spirits become blended in one;= =A0 and, the preponderance of one over the other during such phenomena determines the preponderance of personality in the characteristics exhibite= d in such writings, and "trance speaking."=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 M L (Barker) p. = 101 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Devachan not Monotonous=A0 --=A0 Unaware of= Death Event =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Time spent in Kama-Loka =A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 "Love and Hatred are the only immortal fe= elings, the only survivors from the wreck of Ye-damma, of the phenomenal world.=A0 Imagine yourself in Deva-Chan with those you may have loved with such immortal love...--a perfect blank for everything else relating to your interior, social, political, literary and social life.=A0 And then, in the face of th= at spiritual, purely cogitative existence, of that unalloyed felicity which, i= n proportion with the intensity of the feelings that created it, lasts from a few to several thousand years,--call it the "personal remembrance of A.P.S."-- if you can.=A0=20 =A0 Dreadfully monotonous!--you may think.--Not in the least--I answer.=A0 Have you experienced monotony during--say--...the moment of highest bliss you have ever felt?--Of course not...where there is no consciousness of an external world there can be no discernment to mark differences, hence,--no perception of contrasts of monotony or variety;=A0 nothing in short, outsid= e that immortal feeling of love and sympathetic attractions whose seeds are planted in the fifth [manas], whose plants blossom luxuriantly in and aroun= d the fourth [kama], but whose roots have to penetrate deep into the sixth [buddhi] principle, if it would survive the lower groups...we create ourselves our devachan as our avitchi while yet on earth, and mostly during the latter days and even moments of our intellectual, sentient lives.=A0=20 That feeling (128) which is the strongest in us at that supreme hour;=A0 wh= en, as in a dream the events of a long life, to their minutest details, are marshaled in the greatest order in a few seconds in our vision, (FN.:=A0 Th= at vision takes place when a person is already proclaimed dead.=A0 The brain i= s the last organ that dies.)-- that feeling will become the fashioner of our bliss or woe, the life principle of our future existence.=A0 In the latter = we have no substantial being, but only a present and momentary existence,--whose duration has no bearing upon, as no effect, or relation t= o its being...The real full remembrance of our lives will come but at the end of the minor cycle--not before.=A0 In Kama Loka those who retain their remembrance, will not enjoy it at the supreme hour of recollection. -- Thos= e who know they are dead in their physical bodies--can only be adepts or--sorcerers;=A0 and these two are exceptions to the general rule.=A0 Both having been "co-workers with nature," the former for good, the latter--for bad, in her work of creation and in that of destruction, they are the only ones who may be called immortal--in the Kabalistic and the esoteric sense o= f course.=A0=20 Complete or true immortality,--which means an unlimited sentient existence, can have no breaks and stoppages, no arrest of Self-consciousness.=A0 And e= ven the shells of those good men whose page will not be found missing in the great Book of Lives at the threshold of the Great Nirvana, even they will regain their remembrance and an appearance of Self-consciousness, only afte= r the 6th [buddhi] and 7th [atma] principles with the essence of the 5th [manas] (the latter having to furnish the material for even that partial recollection of personality which is necessary for the object in Deva-Chan)--have gone to the gestation period, not before... Thus, when a man dies, his "Soul" (5th prin.) becomes unconscious and loses all remembrance of things internal as well as external.=A0 Whether his stay= in Kama Loka has to last but a few moments, hours, days, weeks, months or years;=A0 whether he died a natural or a violent death;=A0 whether it occur= red in his young or old age, and, whether the Ego was good, bad, or indifferent,-- his consciousness leaves him as suddenly as the flame leaves the wick when, blown out.=A0 When life has retired from the last particle i= n the brain matter, his perceptive faculties become extinct forever, his spiritual powers of cognition and volition--(all those faculties in short, which are neither inherent in, nor acquirable by organic matter)--for the time being.=A0 His (129) Mayavi Rupa may be often thrown into objectivity, = as in the cases of apparitions after death ..."=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 M L, p. 127-129 =A0 =A0 From meredith_bill@earthlink.net Mon Jan 23 13:21:03 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: meredith_bill@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38272 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2006 21:20:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jan 2006 21:20:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO fall-curlleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (207.69.195.105) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jan 2006 21:20:56 -0000 Received: from pop-sarus.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([207.69.195.72]) by fall-curlleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1F178O-0001VK-Tw; Mon, 23 Jan 2006 14:13:48 -0500 Received: from dialup-4.153.87.240.dial1.atlanta1.level3.net ([4.153.87.240] helo=JoeyMeredith) by pop-sarus.atl.sa.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1F16Cp-00024u-00; Mon, 23 Jan 2006 13:14:20 -0500 Message-ID: <000801c62048$d2eb2dc0$f0579904@JoeyMeredith> To: "Theosophy Study List" , , , , , "Teresa Rodriguez" , "Wendy Paulk" , "Zakk Duffany" Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 13:14:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Originating-IP: 207.69.195.105 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Bill Meredith" Subject: our deepest fear X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=191212763; y=mY5pUJOSmx_6UfqzhX2Op3kTSQQSSN_PaxVcaZamdNAK77P2FIAOr9w X-Yahoo-Profile: meredith_bille Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit " 'Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us.' ..... We are all meant to shine, as children do.... It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we subconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we're liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others." - Marianne Williamson [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From silva_cass@yahoo.com Mon Jan 23 16:13:24 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 6083 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2006 00:13:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2006 00:13:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52113.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.116) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2006 00:13:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 51947 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Jan 2006 00:12:22 -0000 Message-ID: <20060124001222.51945.qmail@web52113.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [211.28.165.96] by web52113.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 23 Jan 2006 16:12:22 PST Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 16:12:22 -0800 (PST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <145.5517c504.31058a8a@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.116 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: [Mind and Brain] meaning and information X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=4DKo5PHA-IBX8xWinr9hOfzIQAhc1fCyZBy3qjLh4Mu6_Sg3ZQ X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Leon, I will need to spend a few days digesting all that you have said. My neura= l connections seem to require this time frame, however my first reaction to= your statement=20 Or that the lower mental field of the developing fetus can receive impulses= transmitted to it from the=20 conscious and unconscious thoughts of its mother. This could correspond t= o the=20 reported response of a plant to the loving or hateful thoughts directed to = it.=20 Cass: Doesn't this suggest that some sort of consciousness precedes brain f= unction? All of the bodies, higher mental, lower mental, astral, and ether= ic are waiting on the threshold to animate the foetus. Perhaps as you say= , the foetus, dreams because of its formed astral body, perhaps also it is = able to think, prior to the formation of the brain, because of its lower/hi= gher mental body. "The soul, says Porphyry, having even after death a certain affection for i= ts body, an affinity proportioned to the violence with which their union wa= s broken". IU Cass: Perhaps the soul has an affinity for its physical form in the womb? = Unfortunately if this is the case it can never be proven at a scientific le= vel. I read in Isis or SD that consciousness precedes intelligence, will need to= do a bit of research today. Cass leonmaurer@aol.com wrote: Cass, I'm not sure I understand how a fetus can react to a visual stimulus from t= he=20 outer world. How would the light reflected from that world penetrate to t= he=20 retinas of the fetal eyes? Besides, I'm not so sure the fetus has yet=20 connected to the mind -- which in itself, would have no direct connection t= o the=20 reflected visual images of the outer world.=20=20=20 I think theosophy teaches, and I tend to agree, that the unborn fetus has n= ot=20 yet attached itself to the higher mind. From a conscious mind standpoin= t=20 -- all it has, apparently, is the instinctive reaction of each of its=20 developing cells, and later, organs, to the immediate environment they are = surrounded=20 by and growing in -- guided by their DNA's encoding that, through its=20 coenergetic fields, are linked directly to the astral form of the developin= g body at=20 each stage of its growth. For that early developmental level of consciousn= ess,=20 there would be no need for a brain, although its lower instinctive mind cou= ld=20 be operative and storing memories of its immediate environmentally causal=20 experiences. Also, it seems obvious to me that, in those early stages of= =20 development, the fetus couldn't have any functioning "neural" connections t= o speak=20 of.=20=20=20 I would think, then, that the developing fetus' only contact with the outer= =20 world would be through the direct physical pressure waves that are transmit= ted=20 to it through the surrounding amnionic fluid. This could include sound wa= ves=20 that are transmitted through the body and the uterus of the mother. But, = I=20 doubt if light waves could get through, or if higher order mind field=20 information could effect the waking consciousness of the fetus. Although,= I don't=20 doubt that the Monad connected to each developing fetus might be dreaming u= ntil=20 it opens its eyes in the outer world... Or that the lower mental field of t= he=20 developing fetus can receive impulses transmitted to it from the conscious = and=20 unconscious thoughts of its mother. This could correspond to the reported= =20 response of a plant to the loving or hateful thoughts directed to it. = =20 Speculatively, all that also could be the cause of the prenatal "engrams" o= r residual=20 memories carried by the growing baby-child into later life that might effec= t=20 its future psychological states of mind. I hope this makes some theosophical sense. Len In a message dated 1/20/06 8:52:08 PM, silva_cass@yahoo.com writes: > Thanks Leon, > I was actually referring to the neurological question that was raised in = the=20 > mindspring group.=EF=BF=BD Especially in relation to retina connection as= the foetus=20 > has no eye contact with the world, yet reacts to stimulus from that (unse= en=20 > from the foetus pov)=EF=BF=BDworld.=EF=BF=BD I was trying to make the poi= nt that it is the=20 > mind and not the brain that=EF=BF=BD translates the world=EF=BF=BD of the= foetus. >=20 > Cass >=20 > leonmaurer@aol.com wrote: Cass, > Check your previous quote from Isis Unveiled where HPB explains instinct = in > lower life forms (i.e., cells and organs of fetus) as an aspect of univer= sal > consciousness.=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD From a metaphysical scientific POV (ref:= ABC theory) --=20 > such > instinctive consciousness has no need for a brain to react to impulses fr= om=20 > its > environment.=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD In such primative forms, their surrounding= , transformative, 7 > fold (coadunate but not consubstantial) fields of consciousness exist, as= =20 > does > their zero-points of receptive awareness and responsive will -- that can = act > in accord with the instinctive or archetypal memories carried in their=20 > highest > order field, which is linked directly to the univeral memory fieid (or=20 > akasha, > in theosophical terms). > Lenny >=20 > In a message dated 1/20/06 12:00:38 PM, silva_cass@yahoo.com writes: >=20 >=20 > > Lenny > > What about the foetus, how does it react, before the brain is formed? > > Cass > > > > leonmaurer@aol.com wrote: Thought it might be helpful to see how > > theosophical thinking and reasoning, along with a knowledge of its=20 > metaphysical science, > > can contend with skeptical > > existential materialists and reductive scientists... > > >=20 > (snip) >=20 >=20 >=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20 =09=09 --------------------------------- =20 What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Jan 23 17:08:34 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70738 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2006 01:08:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2006 01:08:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.70) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2006 01:08:33 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.217] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1F1CeX-0001fO-7Z; Mon, 23 Jan 2006 20:07:22 -0500 To: Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 17:07:03 -0800 Message-ID: <026e01c62082$824560e0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <20060124001222.51945.qmail@web52113.mail.yahoo.com> X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79afb21a3dec71adbc563b42a103696d6c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: Theos-World Re: [Mind and Brain] meaning and information X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=pG6gHsY6Iv7dgLjdQGJFxAoUA00dLeeOgnVaoIkAIGqRaw X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/23/2006 5:02 PM Dear Friend: This may be of some help: C O N S C I O U S N E S S=20 ---------------------=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 "Whatever plane our consciousness may be acting in, both we and the things belonging to that plane are, for the time being, our only realities. As we rise in the scale of development we perceive that during the stages through which we have passed we mistook shadows for realities, and the upward progress of the Ego is a series of progressive awakenings, each advance bringing with it the idea that now, at last, we have reached "reality;" but only when we shall have reached to the absolute Consciousness, and blended our own with it, shall we be free from the delusions produced by Maya." S D I 40 [ see also: SD I 37-9 172 329 268 329fn GN 98-100 Trans 31 Pat 39-41 Some preliminary observations:=20=20 The Universe is embodied consciousness. For awareness (consciousness) ther= e has to be an Observer, who, by definition remains uninvolved, unmoved and i= s therefore able to see and record all changes.=20 [ see: "Proofs of the Hidden Self." WQJ Articles, I, p. 289 ] "To the stone belongs molecular consciousness, not consciousness as we know it, but only so called by analogy; to the plant belongs astral consciousness, or the dawn of sensation; to the animal belongs emotional consciousness, or the dawn of perception. As this faculty or principle becomes more and more fully developed and active, a new faculty begins to act--the human intellect, the lower manas, begins to awake and exercise its functions. The [ individual ]...has evolved far enough towards spiritual perception, to be able to recognize his lower principles as himself --...This is self-consciousness or consciousness of self; and here the human stage is reached in the return of the monad from its journey to the confines of matter." WQJ Articles I p. 303-4 "Spirit is universal, indivisible, and common to all...there are not many spirits, one for each man, but solely one spirit, which shines upon all men alike, finding as many souls--roughly speaking--as there are beings in the world. In man the spirit has a more complete instrument or assemblage of tools with which to work. This spiritual identity is the basis of the philosophy; upon it the whole structure rests..." Echoes, p. 50 Second, there has to be one or more fields of action.=20=20 [ See: "Three Planes of Human Life," WQJ Articles, I p. 294;=20=20=20 "The Sevenfold Division," WQJ Articles, I p. 298;=20=20 Ocean, p. 23-24, 26; ] Third, there has to be interaction, movement, a purpose, or cause, and a being which benefits from such changes by increments. [ see: "Remembering the Experiences of the Ego," WQJ Articles, I p. 292 ] Some experiences are called subjective and others, objective. But if we scrutinize the process we find that even the objective events that can be recorded as memory are all handled by the subjective Ego, and recorded by its process of concentrated attention, or will. [ see: "The Subjective an= d the Objective," WQJ Articles, I p. 300 ; also "The Self is the Friend of Self, and also its Enemy," WQJ Art. I p. 307; "Meditation, Concentration, Will," WQJ Art. I p. 316, and 319 - gives an idea of these processes, whe= n voluntarily applied. They are powers of the embodied Self. ] The Theosophical vocabulary and nomenclature has been developed to assist students who derive their considerations from either the Western or the Eastern systems. The latter have been in place for millennia and by observations and experiment the Eastern schools have classified many states of consciousness and hence, Theosophy employs many of their ideas and their technical vocabulary as the equivalents in Western psychology are yet to be developed. This presentation will consist of a number of a seemingly disjointed quotations, and it may require reference to a coherent presentation of the Theosophical philosophy as is done by Mme. Blavatsky in her THE KEY TO THEOSOPHY or Mr. Judge's THE OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY to acquire the usage of tha= t system of terms and ideas. "Our consciousness is one and not many, nor different from other consciousnesses. It is not waking consciousness or sleeping consciousness, or any other but consciousness itself. But the One Consciousness of each person is the Witness or Spectator of the actions and experiences of every state we are in or pass through...[It] pierces up and down through all the states or planes of Being, and serves to uphold the memory--whether complet= e or incomplete--of each state's experiences."=20=09=09 [ quoted in W.Q.Judge -- Gita Notes, p. 99 ]=20=20 =20 In the Epitome, Mr. Judge states: "...[ considering ] the doctrine of Universal Evolution...=09 the mineral, vegetable and animal forms each imprison a spark of the Divine= , a portion of the indivisible Purusha [ Spirit ]. These sparks struggle to "return to the Father," or in other words to secure self-consciousness and at last come into the highest form, on Earth, that of man, where alone self-consciousness is possible to them... Each spark of divinity has...millions of ages in which to accomplish its mission--that of obtaining complete self-consciousness while in the for= m of man...all depends on the individual's own will and efforts... This system is thus seen to be based upon the identity of Spiritual Being, and, under the name of "Universal Brotherhood," constitutes the basi= c idea...Purusha [Spirit] is the basis of all manifested objects...It interpenetrates everything everywhere. It is the reality of which, or upon which, those things called real by us are mere images. As Purusha reaches to and embraces all beings, they are all connected together; and in or on the plane where that Purusha is, there is a perfect consciousness of every act, thought, object, and circumstance, whether supposed to occur there, or on this plane, or any other. For below the spirit and above the intellect is a plane of consciousness in which experiences are noted, commonly called man's "spiritual nature;" this is frequently said to be as susceptible of culture as his body or his intellect. (see 25) This upper plane is the real recorder of all sensations and experiences, although there are other registering planes. it is sometimes called the "subconscious mind."...The real object to be kept in view is to so open up or make porous the lower nature that the spiritual nature may shine through it and become the guide and ruler.... The real man, who is the Higher Self--being the spark of the Divine before alluded to--overshadows the visible being, which has the possibility of becoming united to that spark...it is always peaceful, unconcerned, blissful, and full of absolute knowledge. It continually partakes of the Divine state, being continually that state itself...The object of the student is to let the light of that spirit shine through the lower coverings." WQJ--Epitome, pp.11-14 The quotations that follow offer reinforcement to an understanding of these fundamental ideas, which are also described in their operations. UNIVERSAL MIND -- UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUSNESS "The true student of Raja Yoga knows that everything has its origin in the mind; that even this universe is the passing before the Divine Mind of the images he desires to appear." WQJ ART II 560 "At the commencement of a great Manvantara [ great cycle of evolution ], Parabrahm [ the ABSOLUTE ] manifests as Mulaprakriti [ root-matter ] and then as the Logos ["Word"-thought-plan ]. This Logos is equivalent to the "Unconscious Universal Mind," etc., of Western Pantheists. It constitutes the Basis of the Subject-side of manifested Being, and is the source of all manifestations of individual consciousness. Mulaprakriti or Primordial Cosmic Substance, is the foundation of the Object-side of things--the basis of all objective evolution and Cosmogenesis. Force, then, does not emerge with Primordial Substance from Parabrahmic Latency. It is the transformation into energy of the supra-conscious thought of the Logos, infused, so to speak, into the objectivization of the latter out of potential latency in the One Reality.=20=20 Hence spring the wondrous laws of matter...Force succeeds Mulaprakriti; but, minus Force, Mulaprakriti is for all practical intents and purposes non-existent." SD II 24-5=09 (see also M L 89-91) "...spiritual discernment, by means of which the Supreme Spirit can be discerned in all things...To attain it, the heart--that is, every part of the nature--must be fixed on the Spirit, meditation has to be constant, and the Spirit made the refuge or abiding-place...No particular theosophical classification for the divisions of nature has been given out... "inferior nature" [ to Krishna ] is only so, relatively. It is the phenomenal and transient which disappears into the superior at the end of a kalpa.=20=20 It is that part of God, or of the Self, which chose to assume the phenomena= l and transient position, but is, in essence, as great as the superior nature= . The inferiority is only relative; as soon as objective material, and subjective spiritual, worlds appear, the first-named has to be denominated inferior to the other, because the spiritual being the permanent base, it i= s in that sense superior; but in an absolute whole all is equal. [ Note: One could say that Manvantara-manifestation is characterized by th= e Sanskrit term Kamadeva -- that deity the represents in time and space the reign of those forces peculiar to all beings which reflect the desire-kama, and the passionate aspect of each. Those being which are self-conscious have in this time the opportunity of seeing their own kamic nature as an aspect of the Universal, Eternal Man, of themselves. To perceive this desire-nature implies the fat that the Real man is separate from the mass o= f his desires, can know them in detail, and can modify or adjust them. see Light on the Path, essay on Karma ] Included in the inferior nature are all the visible, tangible, invisible an= d intangible worlds; it is what we call Nature. The invisible and intangibl= e are none the less actual..."=20 Gita Notes 133 [ In the Secret Doctrine, HPB gives several 7-fold classifications we coul= d consider as "keys" to the 7-fold divisions of Nature, but there, she also states that we ought to consider the particular starting-point from which those are used. Example: "The seven fundamental transformations of the globes or heavenly spheres, o= r rather their constituent particles of matter, is described as follows: 1) the homogeneous; 2) the aeriform and radiant (gaseous); 3) Curd-like (nebulous); 4) Atomic, Ethereal (beginning of motion, hence of differentiation); 5) Germinal, fiery, (differentiated, but composed of the germs only of the Elements, in their earliest states, they having seven states, when completely developed on our earth); 6) Four-fold, vapory (the future Earth); 7) Cold and depending (on the Sun for life and light)." S D, I 205-6 fn. [ On the 7 Planets of our Solar System. S D, I, 575 & 577 ] "...the Rishis, were the septiform personations 1) of the noumena of the intelligent Powers of nature; 2) of Cosmic Forces; 3) of celestial bodies= ; 4) of gods or Dhyan Chohans; 5) of psychic and spiritual powers; 6) of divine kings on earth (or the incarnations of the gods); and 7) of terrestrial heroes or men. The knowledge of how to discern among these seven forms the one that is meant, belonged at all times to the Initiates..." S D, II 765=20=20 =20 "Esoteric philosophy teaches that everything lives and is conscious, but no= t that all life and consciousness are similar to those of human or even anima= l beings. Life we look upon as "the one form of existence," manifesting in what is called matter; or, as in man, incorrectly separating them, we name Spirit, Soul and Matter. Matter is the vehicle for the manifestation of soul on this plane of existence, and soul is the vehicle on a higher plane for the manifestation of spirit, and these three are a trinity synthesized by Life, which pervades them all. The idea of universal life is one of those ancient conceptions which are returning to the human mind in this century as a consequence of its liberation from anthropomorphic theology." S D I 49 "This desire for a sentient life shows itself in everything, from an atom t= o a sun, and is a reflection of the Divine Thought propelled into objective existence, into a law that the Universe should exist...the real cause of that supposed desire, and of all existence, remains for ever hidden, and it= s first emanations are the most complete abstractions mind can conceive. [which]... must of necessity be postulated as the cause of the material Universe which presents itself to the senses and intellect...It is impossible to conceive of anything without a cause...metaphysical abstractions...are the only conceivable cause of physical concretions."=20 S D I 44-5 "...Motion, the one life, or Jivatma..." S D I 50 "The matter-moving Nous, the animating Soul, immanent in every atom, manifested in man, latent in the stone, has different degrees of power; an= d this pantheistic idea of a general spirit-Soul pervading all Nature is the oldest of all the philosophical notions." S D I 51=09 "...Occultism, unlike modern Science, maintains that every atom of matter, when once differentiated, becomes endowed with its own kind of Consciousness. Every cell in the human body (as in every animal) is endowe= d with its own peculiar discrimination, instinct, and, speaking relatively, with intelligence."=09 (see HPB Art. II, 20-2) TRANS 25 =20 CONSCIOUSNESS - FREE-WILL "Every atom is endowed with and moved by intelligence, and is conscious in its own degree, on its own plane of development. This is a glimpse of the One Life...selfishness is the curse of I-ness..." WQJ ART I 29 "...Time...[is] the panoramic succession of our states of consciousness..." S D I 44 "The "Absolute Consciousness,"..."behind" phenomena...is only termed unconsciousness in the absence of any element of personality...transcends human conception...Only the liberated Spirit is able to faintly realize the nature of the source whence it sprung and whither it must eventually return...we can but bow in ignorance before the awful mystery of Absolute Being...the Finite cannot conceive the Infinite..." S D I 51 "Every man has a god within, a direct ray from the Absolute, the celestial ray from the One..." TRANS 53 "Free-will can only exist in a man who has both mind and consciousness, which act and make him perceive things both within and without himself." "Consciousness is a condition of the monad as a result of embodiment in matter and the dwelling in a physical form." WQJ ART I 29 "Esoteric philosophy teaches that everything lives and is conscious, but no= t that all life and consciousness are similar to those of human or even anima= l beings. Life we look on as the "the one form of existence," manifesting in what is called matter; or, as in man, what, incorrectly separating them we name Spirit, Soul and Matter. Matter is the vehicle for the manifestation or soul on this plane of existence, and soul is the vehicle on a higher plane for the manifestation of spirit, and those three are a trinity synthesized by Life, which pervades them all." SD I 49 [see M L 89-91 on development of consciousness in the Life-Atom ] [ see SD I 174-5 fn on the nature and necessity for the Monad ] =20 MIND -- ILLUSION -- TIME -- EVOLUTION "Mind is a name given to the sum of the states of Consciousness grouped under Thought, Will, and Feeling. During deep sleep, ideation ceases of th= e physical plane, and memory is in abeyance; thus for the time-being "Mind i= s not," because the organ through which the Ego manifests ideation and memory on the material plane has temporarily ceased to function. A noumenon can become a phenomenon on any plane of existence only by manifesting on that plane through an appropriate basis or vehicle...The Ah-hi (Dhyan-Chohans) are the collective hosts of spiritual beings--the Angelic Hosts of Christianity...--who are the vehicle for the manifestation of the divine or universal though and will. They are the Intelligent Forces that give to an= d enact in Nature her "laws," while themselves acting according to laws imposed upon them in a similar manner by still higher Powers...This hierarchy of spiritual Beings, through which the Universal Mind comes into action, is like an army--a "Host," SD I 38=20=20=09 "Maya or illusion is an element which enters into all finite things, for everything that exists has only a relative, not an absolute, reality, since the appearance which the hidden noumenon assumes for any observer depends upon his power of cognition...=09 Nothing is permanent except the one hidden absolute existence which contain= s in itself the noumena of all realities. The existence belonging to every plane of being up to the highest Dhyan Chohans, are, in degree, of the nature of shadows...but all things are relatively real, for the cognizer is also a reflection, and the things cognized are therefore as real to him as himself.=20=20 What ever reality things possess must be looked for it them before or after they have passed like a flash through the material world; but we cannot cognize any such existence directly, so long as we have sense instruments which bring only material existence into the field of our consciousness. = =20 Whatever plane our consciousness may be acting in, both we and the things belonging to that plane are, for the time being, our only realities. As we rise in the scale of development we perceive that during the stages through which we have passed we mistook shadows for realities, and the upward march of the Ego is a series of progressive awakenings, each advance bringing wit= h it the idea that now, at last, we have reached "reality;" but only when we shall have reached the absolute Consciousness, and blended our own with it, shall we be free from the delusions produced by Maya." SD I 39-40 [ see also Echoes, p. 41-2 ] =20 TIME AND CONSCIOUSNESS "Time is only an illusion produced by the succession of our states of consciousness as we travel through eternal duration, and it does not exist where no consciousness exists in which the illusion can be produced; but "lies asleep." The present is only a mathematical line which divides that part of eternal duration which we call the future, from that part which we call the past.=20=20 Nothing on earth has real duration, for nothing remains without change--or the same--for the billionth part of second; and the sensation we have of the actuality of the division of "time" known as the present, comes from th= e blurring of that momentary glimpse, or succession of glimpses, of things that our senses give us, as those things pass from the region ideals which we call the future, to the region of memories that we name the past... The real person or thing does not consist solely of what is seen at any particular moment, but is composed of the sum of all its various and changing conditions from its appearance in the material form to its disappearance from the earth. It is these "sum totals" that exist from eternity in the "future," and pass by degrees through matter, to exist for eternity in the "past."...persons and things, which, dropping out of the to-be into the has-been, out of the future into the past--present momentarily to our senses a cross-section, as it were, of their total selves, as they pass through time and space (as matter) on their way from one eternity to another; and these tow constitute that "duration" in which alone anything has true existence, were our senses but able to cognize it." SD I 37 UNIVERSAL EVOLUTION "The Secret Doctrine teaches the progressive development of everything, worlds as well as atoms; and this stupendous development has neither conceivable beginning nor imaginable end. Our "Universe" is only one of an infinite series of Universes, all of them "Sons of Necessity," because link= s in the great Cosmic chain of Universes, each one standing in the relation o= f an effect as regards its predecessor, and being a cause as regards its successor. The appearance and disappearance of the Universe are pictured as an outbreathing and inbreathing of "the Great Breath," which is eternal, and which, being Motion, is one of the three aspects of the Absolute--Abstract Space and Duration being the other two..."The Past time is the Present time= , as also the Future, which, though it has not come into existence, still is..." SD I 43 =20 "Every living creature, of whatever description, was, is, or will become a human being in one or another Manvantara." HPB-- Trans. 23 "Esoteric philosophy teaches that everything lives and is conscious, but no= t that all life and consciousness are similar to those of human or even anima= l beings. Life we look upon as "the one form of existence," manifesting in what is called matter; or, as in man, incorrectly separating them, we name Spirit, Soul and Matter. Matter is the vehicle for the manifestation of soul on this plane of existence, and soul is the vehicle on a higher plane for the manifestation of spirit, and these three are a trinity synthesized by Life, which pervades them all. The idea of universal life is one of those ancient conceptions which are returning to the human mind in this century as a consequence of its liberation from anthropomorphic theology." S D I 49 THE BRAIN "We might properly speak, then, of the memory of the end-organ of vision or of hearing, of the memory of the spinal cord and of the different so-called 'centers' of reflex action belonging to the chords of the memory of the medulla oblongata, the cerebellum, etc." This is the essence of Occult teaching...every organ in our body has its own memory. For it is endowed with a consciousness "of its own kind," every cell must of necessity have also a memory of its own kind, as likewise its own psychic and noetic action. Responding to the touch of both a physical and a metaphysical Force, the impulse given by the psychic (or psycho-molecular) Force will ac= t from without within; while that of the noetic (shall we call it Spiritual-dynamical ?) Force works from within without. For, as our body i= s the covering of the inner "principles," soul, mind, life, etc., so the molecule or the cell is the body in which dwell its principles," the (to ou= r senses and comprehension) immaterial atoms which compose that cell. The cell's activity and behavior are determined by its being propelled either inwardly or outwardly, by the noetic or the psychic Force, the former havin= g no relation to the physical cells proper. Therefore while the latter act under the unavoidable law of the conservation and correlation of physical energy, the atoms--being psycho-spiritual, not physical units--act under laws of their own, just as Professor Ladd's "Unit-Being," which is our "Mind-Ego," does, in his very philosophical and scientific hypothesis. =20 Every human organ and each cell in the latter has a keyboard of its own, like that of a piano, only that it registers and emits sensations instead o= f sounds. Every key contains the potentiality of good or bad, of producing harmony or disharmony. This depends on the impulse given and the combination produced; on the force of the touch of the artist at work, a "double-faced Unity," indeed...For the whole of man is guided by this double-faced Entity.=20=20 If the impulse comes from the "Wisdom above," the Force applied being noeti= c or spiritual, the results will be actions worthy of the divine propeller...It is the function of the physical, lower mind to act upon the physical organs and their cells; but, it is the higher mind alone which ca= n influence the atoms interacting in those cells, which interaction is alone capable of exciting the brain, via the spinal "center" cord, to a mental representation of spiritual ideas far beyond any objects on this material plane. The phenomena of divine consciousness have to be regarded as activities of our mind on another and a higher plane, working through something less substantial than the moving molecules of the brain...Occultism teaches that the liver and the spleen-cells are the most subservient to the action of ou= r "personal" mind, the heart being the organ par excellence through which the "Higher" Ego acts--through the Lower Self." HPB-- "Psychic and Noetic Action" -- HPB Art. II 22-3 IMAGINATION "...the plastic power of the imagination is much stronger in some persons than in others. The mind is dual in its potentiality; It is physical and metaphysical. The higher part of the mind is connected with the spiritual soul or Buddhi, the lower with the animal soul, the Kama principle.=20=20 There are persons who never think with the higher faculties of their mind a= t all; those who do so are the minority and are thus, in a way, beyond, if not above, the average of human kind. The idiosyncrasy of the person determines in which "principle" of the mind the thinking is done, as also the faculties of a preceding life, and sometimes the heredity of the physical.=20=20 This is why it is so very difficult for a materialist--the metaphysical portion of whose brain is almost atrophied--to raise himself, or for one wh= o is naturally spiritually minded, to descend to the level of the matter-of-fact vulgar thought...[ Thinking to be developed in the higher mind ? ]...Certainly it can be developed, but only with great difficulty, a firm determination, and through much self-sacrifice...This difference depends simply on the innate power of the mind to think on the higher or on the lower plane, with the astral...or with the physical brain.=20=20 Great intellectual powers are often no proof of, but are the impediments to spiritual and right conceptions...The person who is endowed with this faculty of thinking about even the most trifling things from the higher plane of thought has, by virtue of that gift which he possesses, a plastic power of formation, so to say, in his very imagination...his thought will b= e so far more intense that the thought of an ordinary person, that by his ver= y intensity it obtains the power of creation...thought is an energy. This energy in its action disturbs the atoms of the astral atmosphere around us...the rays of thought have the same potentiality for producing forms in the astral atmosphere as the sun rays have with regard to a lens. Every thought so evolved with energy from the brain, creates nolens volens a shape." HPB-- Dialogues -- HPB Art. II 42-3 "...the human brain is simply the canal between two planes--the psycho-spiritual and the material--through which every abstract and metaphysical idea filters from the Manasic down to the lower human consciousness. Therefore the ideas about the infinite and the absolute are not, nor can they be, within our brain capacities. They can be faithfully mirrored only by our Spiritual consciousness, thence to be more of less faintly projected on to the tables of our perceptions on this plane.=20=20 Thus while the records of even important events are often obliterated from our memory, not the most trifling action of our lives can disappear from th= e "Soul's" memory, because it is no memory for it, but an ever-present realit= y on the plane which lies outside our conceptions of space and time. "Man is the measure of all things," said Aristotle; and surely he did not mean by man, the form of flesh, bones and muscles ? ... As our world is mostly formed of imperceptible beings which are the real constructors of its continents, so likewise is man." HPB --Memory in the Dying-- HPB Art. II 378-9 "Occult philosophy reconciles the absurdity of postulating in the manifeste= d Universe an active Mind without an organ, with that worse absurdity, an objective Universe evolved as everything else in it, by blind chance, by giving this Universe an organ of thought, a "brain." The latter, though no= t objective to our senses, is none the less existing; it is to be found in the Entity called Kosmos (Adam Kadmon in the Kabbalah). As in the Microcos= m Man, so in the Macrocosm, or the Universe. Every organ is a sentient entity, and every particle of matter or substance, from the physical molecule up to the spiritual atom, is a cell, a nerve center, which communicates." (see Lucifer, Vol. 7, p. 476fn) "This is precisely what occult philosophy claims; our Ego is a ray of the Universal Mind, individualized for the space of a cosmic life-cycle, during which space of time it gets experience in almost numberless reincarnations or rebirths, after which it returns to its Parent-Source. The Occultist would call the "Higher Ego" the immortal Entity, whose shadow and reflection is the human Manas, the mind limited by its physical senses...In the course of natural evolution our "brain-mind" will be replaced by a finer organism, and helped by the 6th and the 7th senses. Even now, there are pioneer minds who have developed these senses." Theos. Art. & Notes, p. 208 "Our "memory" is but a general agent, and its "tablets," with their indelible impressions, but a figure of speech; the "brain-tablets" serve only as a upadhi or a vahan (basis or vehicle) for reflecting at a given moment the memory of one or another thing. The records of past events, of every minutest action, and of passing thoughts, in fact, are realty impressed on the imperishable waves of the Astral Light, around us and everywhere, not in the brain alone; and these mental pictures, images, and sounds, pass from these waves via the consciousness of the personal Ego or Mind (the lower Manas) whose grosser essence is astral, into the "cerebral reflectors," so to say, of our brain, whence they are delivered by the psychic to the sensuous consciousness. This at every moment of the day, an= d even during sleep." Theos. Art. & Notes, p. 209 "...Genius--an abnormal aptitude of mind--that develops and grows, or the physical brain, is vehicle, which becomes...fitter to receive and manifest from within outwardly the innate and divine nature of man's over-soul." HPB -- "Genius" -- HPB Art. II 119 =09 CONSCIOUSNESS AND LIFE "Esoteric philosophy teaches that everything lives and is conscious, but no= t that all life and consciousness are similar to those of human or even anima= l beings. Life we look upon as "the one form of existence," manifesting in what is called matter; or, as in man, incorrectly separating them, we name Spirit, Soul and Matter. Matter is the vehicle for the manifestation of soul on this plane of existence, and soul is the vehicle on a higher plane for the manifestation of spirit, and these three are a trinity synthesized by Life, which pervades them all. The idea of universal life is one of those ancient conceptions which are returning to the human mind in this century as a consequence of its liberation from anthropomorphic theology." S D I 49 =20 "The Secret Doctrine teaches the progressive development of everything, worlds as well as atoms; and this stupendous development has neither conceivable beginning nor imaginable end. Our "Universe" is only one of an infinite series of Universes, all of them "Sons of Necessity," because link= s in the great Cosmic chain of Universes, each one standing in the relation o= f an effect as regards its predecessor, and being a cause as regards its successor. The appearance and disappearance of the Universe are pictured as an outbreathing and inbreathing of "the Great Breath," which is eternal, and which, being Motion, is one of the three aspects of the Absolute--Abstract Space and Duration being the other two..."The Past time is the Present time= , as also the Future, which, though it has not come into existence, still is..." SD I 43 FREE WILL IN NATURE AND IN MAN "Free-will can only exist in a man who has both mind and consciousness, which act and make him perceive things both within and without himself." "Consciousness is a condition of the monad as a result of embodiment in matter and the dwelling in a physical form." WQJ ART I 29 [see M L 89-91 on development of consciousness in the Life- Atom ] [ see SD I 174-5 fn on the nature and necessity for the Monad ] "Every atom is endowed with and moved by intelligence, and is conscious in its own degree, on its own plane of development. This is a glimpse of the One Life... selfishness is the curse of separateness..." WQJ ART I 29 "Every man has a god within, a direct ray from the Absolute, the celestial ray from the One..." TRANS 53 "...Time...[is] the panoramic succession of our states of consciousness..." S D I 44 "The "Absolute Consciousness,"..."behind" phenomena...is only termed unconsciousness in the absence of any element of personality...transcends human conception...Only the liberated Spirit is able to faintly realize the nature of the source whence it sprung and whither it must eventually return...we can but bow in ignorance before the awful mystery of Absolute Being...the Finite cannot conceive the Infinite..." S D I 51 "the one free force acts, helped in this by that portion of its essence which we call imprisoned force, or material molecules. The worker within, the inherent force, ever tends to unite with its parent essence without; and thus, the Mother acting within, causes the Web to contract; and the Father acting without, to expand. Science calls this gravitation; Occultists, the work of the universal Life-Force, which radiates from that Absolute and Unknowable FORCE which is outside of all Space and Time. This is the work of eternal Evolution and involution, or expansion and contraction. [ Web cooling ]...it begins when the imprisoned force and intelligence inherent in every atom of differentiated as well as of homogeneous matter arrives at a point when both become the slaves of a higher intelligent Force whose mission is to guide and shape it. It is the Force which we call the divine Free-Will, represented by the Dhyani-Buddhas. When the centrepetal and centrifugal forces of life an= d being are subjected by the one nameless Force which brings order in disorder, and establishes harmony in Chaos--then it begins cooling...Every form, we are told, is built in accordance with the model traced for it in the Eternity and reflected in the DIVINE MIND. There are hierarchies of "Builders of form," and series of forms and degrees, from the highest to th= e lowest. While the former are shaped under the guidance of the "Builders," the gods, "Cosmocratores;" the latter are fashioned by the Elementals or Nature Spirits." Trans 128-9 FORCE - ENERGY UNIVERSAL LIFE "The universal force cannot be regarded as a conscious force as we understand the word consciousness, because it would immediately become a personal god. It is only that which is enclosed in a form, a limitation of matter, which is conscious of itself on this plane. This Free Force or Will, which is limitless and absolute, cannot be said to act understandingly, but it is the one and sole immutable Law of Life and Being= . Fohat, therefore, is spoken of as the synthetic motor power of all imprisoned life-forces and the medium between the absolute and conditioned Force. It is a link, just as Manas is the connecting link between the gros= s matter of the physical body and the divine Monad which animates it, but is powerless to act upon the former directly." Trans 134 (see "Psychic and Noetic Action - HPB Art. II 7-23) MANAS -- MIND -- SOUL "(e) Manas -- a dual principle in its functions. Mind, [and]=20 Intelligence: which is the higher human mind, whose light, or radiation links the MONAD, for the lifetime, to the mortal man. The future state and karmic destiny of man depend on whether Manas gravitates more downward to Kama rupa, the seat of the animal passions, or upwards to Buddhi, the Spiritual Ego. In the latter case, the higher consciousness of the individual Spiritual aspirations of mind (Manas), assimilating Buddhi, are absorbed by it and form the (Ego), which goes into Devachanic bliss. (f) Buddhi. The Spiritual Soul. The vehicle of pure universal spirit= . (g) Atma. Spirit. One with the Absolute, as its radiation. KEY, p. 92 "Mind is a name given to the sum of the states of Consciousness grouped under Thought, Will, and Feeling. During deep sleep, ideation ceases of th= e physical plane, and memory is in abeyance; thus for the time-being "Mind i= s not," because the organ through which the Ego manifests ideation and memory on the material plane has temporarily ceased to function. A noumenon can become a phenomenon on any plane of existence only by manifesting on that plane through an appropriate basis or vehicle...The Ah-hi (Dhyan-Chohans) are the collective hosts of spiritual beings--the Angelic Hosts of Christianity,,,--who are the vehicle for the manifestation of the divine or universal though and will. They are the Intelligent Forces that give to an= d enact in Nature her "laws," while themselves acting according to laws imposed upon them in a similar manner by still higher Powers...This hierarchy of spiritual Beings, through which the Universal Mind comes into action, is like an army--a "Host," SD I 38=20=20 "..."Mind" is manas, or rather its lower reflection, which whenever it disconnects itself, for the time being, with kama, becomes the guide of the highest mental faculties, and is the organ of the free-will in physical man...." HPB Art., Vol. II, p. 13 =20 "The matter-moving Nous, the animating Soul, immanent in every atom, manifested in man, latent in the stone, has different degrees of power; an= d this pantheistic idea of a general spirit-Soul pervading all Nature is the oldest of all the philosophical notions." S D I 51=09 There is a dual element in the mind of man. HPB wrote on this as follows: "this means that he would have to admit a lower (animal), and a higher (or divine) mind in man, of what is known in Occultism as the "personal" and th= e "impersonal" Egos. For, between the psychic and the noetic, between the personality and the individuality there exists the same abyss as between a "Jack the Ripper," and a holy Buddha... These two we distinguish as the Higher Manas (Mind or Ego) and the Kama-Manas, i.e., the rational, but earthy or physical intellect of man, incased in, and bound by. matter, therefore subject to the influence of the latter: the all-conscious Self, that which reincarnates periodically--verily the Word made flesh--and which is always the same, while its reflected "Double," changing with every new incarnation and personality, is, therefore, conscious but for a life-period. The latter "principle," is the Lower Self, or that which manifesting through our organic system, acting on this plane of illusion, imagines itself the Ego Sum, and thus falls into what Buddhist philosophy brands as the "heresy of separateness." The former, we term Individuality, the latter Personality." HPB "Psychic and Noetic Action"=20=20 HPB Articles II pp , 9-10, 20-1 MATTER -- SUBSTANCE Q'lippoth (Heb.) or Klippoth [Glos 178]. "The world of Demons or Shells...Q'lippoth contains the matter of which stars, planets, and even me= n are made, shows that Samael with his legions is simply chaotic, turbulent matter, which is used in its finer state by spirits to robe themselves in. For speaking of the "vesture" or form (rupa) of the incarnating Egos, it is said in the Occult Catechism that they, the Manasaputra or Sons of Wisdom, use for the consolidation of their forms, in order to descend into lower spheres, the dregs of Swabhavat, or that plastic matter which is throughout Space, in other words, primordial ilus. And these dregs are what the Egyptians have called Typhon and modern Europeans Satan, Samael, etc..." Glos 268-9 [ see also Klippoth Glos. pp. 178-9 ] =20 SPIRITUAL SUBSTANCE "SUDDA SATWA (Sk.) A substance not subject to the qualities of matter; a luminiferous and (to us) invisible substance, of which the bodies of the gods and highest Dhyanis are formed. Philosophically, Suddha Satwa is a conscious state of spiritual Ego-ism rather than any essence." T. GLOSSARY, p. 311 MAYA -- ILLUSION "Maya or illusion is an element which enters into all finite things, for everything that exists has only a relative, not an absolute, reality, since the appearance which the hidden noumenon assumes for any observer depends upon his power of cognition...=09 Nothing is permanent except the one hidden absolute existence which contain= s in itself the noumena of all realities. The existence belonging to every plane of being up to the highest Dhyan Chohans, are, in degree, of the nature of shadows...but all things are relatively real, for the cognizer is also a reflection, and the things cognized are therefore as real to him as himself.=20=20 What ever reality things possess must be looked for it them (40) before or after they have passed like a flash through the material world; but we cannot cognize any such existence directly, so long as we have sense instruments which bring only material existence into the field of our consciousness. Whatever plane our consciousness may be acting in, both we and the things belonging to that plane are, for the time being, our only realities.=20=20 As we rise in the scale of development we perceive that during the stages through which we have passed we mistook shadows for realities, and the upward march of the Ego is a series of progressive awakenings, each advance bringing with it the idea that now, at last, we have reached "reality;" bu= t only when we shall have reached the absolute Consciousness, and blended our own with it, shall we be free from the delusions produced by Maya." S D I 39-40 [ see also Echoes, p. 41-2 ] MONAD "MONAD (Gr.) The Unity, the one; but in Occultism it often means the unified triad, Atma-Buddhi-Manas, or the duad, Atma-Buddhi, that immortal part of man which reincarnates in the lower kingdoms, and gradually progresses through them to Man and then to the final goal--Nirvana.=20 [see SD I pp. 173-4 footnotes] T. Glossary, p. 216 =20 "Metaphysically speaking, it is of course an absurdity to talk of the "development" of a Monad, or to say that it becomes "Man."...a Monad cannot either progress or develop, or even be affected by the changes of states it passes through. It is not of this world or plane, and may be compared only to an indestructible star of divine light and fire, thrown down on to our Earth as a plank of salvation for the personalities in which it indwells. It is for the latter to cling to it; and thus partaking of its divine nature, obtain immortality. Left to itself the Monad will cling to no one; but, like the "plank," be drifted away to another incarnation by the unresting current of evolution." SD I 174-5 fn. "...the whole secret of Life is in the unbroken series of its manifestations: whether in, or apart from, the physical body...yet it is itself part and parcel of that Eternity; for life alone can understand life... It is Jiva, the Monad in conjunction with Manas, or rather its aroma--that which remains from each personality, when worthy, and hangs fro= m Atma-Buddhi, the Flame, by the thread of life." SD I 238 PERCEIVER "To the perceiver on any plane, perceptions are objective to him; on = a higher plane than this, would they not be his "physics," although metaphysical to us ? From our plane, that which is metaphysical becomes physical when embodied. " FRIENDLY PHILOS. p. 78 "Every one of us is a Perceiver, just as much a Perceiver as we ever were o= r ever will be. So is every atom of our body the perceiver. But we look directly upon ideas; the lives below man look directly upon sensation. We say waking, dreaming, sleeping, because our attention has not been directed to the state of nature beyond life or man ass immortal. But there are othe= r names for these states of consciousness. Think of the mineral kingdom as a state of consciousness, and the forms built in that state. Think of the animal kingdom as life in a given state of consciousness with the appropriate forms built in them. Now we--in the state called the Thinker, which is our natural state--are no= t any the less the Perceiver, because we are also at the same time the Thinke= r and the being which feels. But neither are we the Thinker pure and simple, nor are we the creature that is the experiencer of effects pure and simple=3D--nor are we the Perceiver pure and simple. It is impossible to dissociate the three. If a man were in the state called the Perceiver, and if he were in that state pure and simple, all this that is a mystery to us would be just as objective in the spiritual sense as we here and now are objective to each other in the "sense use" of the term." "QUESTIONS ANSWERED AT AN INFORMAL=20 OCEAN CLASS" [J.G.] T. MVT., Nov. 1952. "As to the "we," there is but one "we," or perceiver, who perceives on any plane through the sheaths evolved by him on each plane; his perceptions on any plane will depend on the quality of the sheath or vehicle. Atma (spirit) or consciousness alone, is what remains after the subtraction of the sheaths. It is the ONLY witness--a synthesizing unity. On this plane--and this means during waking consciousness or its dream effects--the perceiver knows only what it knows on this plane (generally speaking), (49) and through the ignorance of the Real, involves itself in the cause and effect of physical nature, identifying itself with body and sensations, and looking at other human beings in the same light. This is a wrong attitude of mind. The "we," at this end, is the identification of the perceiver wit= h this plane's perceptions--a misconception of the perceiver, a dream--a play--in which the perceiver is so involved as to have lost sight and memor= y of his real life. The mind is both "carrier" and "translator" of both lower and higher self; the attitude determines the quality and kind of action, for one will act according to the attitude of mind firmly held. The great and incalculable value of acting for and as the Supreme is that there is nothing higher in the way of attitude, and this endeavor must by its very nature bring about the best results. What moves the "mind" this way or that is usually desire for the attraction= s of matter, and self-interest in them; these then move and control the mind through the brain. "We," the Perceiver, do not perceive anything but the "ideas" which the senses and organs present. He is not fully awake on this plane; sometimes he gets partly wakened, but drops off to sleep again, lulled by the sounds and memories of his dream; sometimes "bad dreams" awake him; sometimes he is awakened by the voices of those who are awake. The "Real" and the "unreal," the "fleeting" and the "ever-lasting" are term= s which will be more fully understood if looked at from the point of view of the Perceiver. This is the attitude of mind we should hold." Friendly Philosopher 48-8 =20 ANTASKARANA (Sk.) or Antah'karana..."understanding"... "the internal instrument, the Soul, formed by the thinking principle and egoism" ... the Occultists explain it as the path or bridge between the Higher and the Lower Manas, the divine Ego, and the personal Soul of man. It serves as a medium of communication between the two, and conveys from th= e Lower to the Higher Ego all those personal impressions and thoughts of men which can, by their nature, be assimilated and stored by the undying Entity= , and be thus made immortal with its, these being the only elements of the evanescent Personality that survive the death and time. It thus stands to reason that only that which is noble spiritual and divine in man can testif= y in Eternity to his having lived." T. GLOSSARY, p. 23-4 PERFECTION OF CONSCIOUSNESS IN THE ADEPT "The word Adept signifies proficiency, and is not uncommon...A Mahatma is not only an Adept, but much more...maha, great, and atma, soul--hence Great Soul...a perfected human being, one who has attained to the state often described by mystics and held by scientific men to be an impossibility, whe= n time and space are no obstacles to sight, to action, to knowledge or to consciousness...and also to possess information of a decidedly practical character concerning the laws of nature, including that mystery for science--the meaning, operation and constitution of life itself--and concerning the genesis of this planet as well as the races upon it." WQJ--Echoes, p. 23 HIGHER ASPECT OF THE LOWER MANAS "..."Mind" is manas, or rather its lower reflection, which whenever it disconnects itself, for the time being, with kama, becomes the guide of the highest mental faculties, and is the organ of the free-will in physical man...." HPB ARTICLES, Vol. II, p. 13 "the one free force acts, helped in this by that portion of its essence which we call imprisoned force, or material molecules. The worker within, the inherent force, ever tends to unite with its parent essence without; and thus, the Mother acting within, causes the Web to contract; and the Father acting without, to expand. Science calls this gravitation; Occultists, the work of the universal Life-Force, which radiates from that Absolute and Unknowable FORCE which is outside of all Space and Time. This is the work of eternal Evolution and involution, or expansion and contraction. [ Web cooling ]...it begins when the imprisoned force and intelligence inherent in every atom of differentiated as well as of homogeneous matter arrives at a point when both become the slaves of a higher intelligent Force whose mission is to guide and shape it. It is the Force which we call the divine Free-Will, represented by the Dhyani-Buddhas. When the centrepetal and centrifugal forces of life and being are subjected by the one nameless Force which brings order in disorder, and establishes harmony in Chaos--then it begins cooling...Every form, we are told, is built in accordance with the model traced for it in the Eternity and reflected in the DIVINE MIND. There are hierarchies of "Builders of form," and series of forms and degrees, from the highest to th= e lowest. While the former are shaped under the guidance of the "Builders," the gods, "Cosmocratores;" the latter are fashioned by the Elementals or Nature Spirits." TRANS 128-9 "The universal force cannot be regarded as a conscious force as we understand the word consciousness, because it would immediately become a personal god. It is only that which is enclosed in a form, a limitation of matter, which is conscious of itself on this plane. This Free Force or Will, which is limitless and absolute, cannot be said to act understandingly, but it is the one and sole immutable Law of Life and Being= . Fohat, therefore, is spoken of as the synthetic motor power of all imprisoned life-forces and the medium between the absolute and conditioned Force. It is a link, just as Manas is the connecting link between the gros= s matter of the physical body and the divine Monad which animates it, but is powerless to act upon the former directly." TRANS 134 (see "Psychic and Noetic Action - HPB ART II 7-23) "...Buddhi and Atma...These higher principles are entirely inactive on our plane, and the higher Ego (Manas) itself is more or less dormant during the waking of the physical man....So dormant are the Spiritual faculties, because the Ego is so trammeled by matter, that It can hardly give all its attention to man's actions, even should the latter commit sins for which that Ego--when reunited with its lower Manas--will have to suffer conjointl= y in the future. It is...the impressions projected into the physical man by this Ego which constitute what we call "conscience;" and in proportion as the personality, the lower Soul (or Manas), unites itself to its higher consciousness, or EGO, does the action of the latter upon the life of morta= l man become more marked." TRANS 62-3 =20 "...it is the higher Manas illuminated by Buddhi; the principle of self-consciousness, the "I-am-I"...It is the Karana-Sarira, the immortal man, which passes from one incarnation to another." TRANS 63 "There is a sort of conscious telegraphic communication going on incessantly, day and night, between the physical brain and the inner man...the consciousness of the sleeper is not active but passive. The inner man, however, the real Ego, acts independently during the sleep of th= e body...Read "Karmic Visions" [ HPB ART I, 382 ]...and note the description of the real Ego, sitting as a spectator of the life of the hero..." TRANS 64-5=09 "...the Logos or Word is called incarnate wisdom. "Light shining in darkness." The distinction lies between the immovable or eternal immutable All, and the movable Speech or Logos, i.e., the periodical and manifested. It can relate to the universal and the manifested. It can relate to the Universal, and to the individual mind, to Mahat, or to the Higher Manas, or even to the lower, the Kama Manas or Brain-Mind. Because that which is desire, instinctive impulse in the lower, becomes thought in the Higher. The former finds expression in acts, the latter in words. Esoterically, thought is more responsible and punishable than act. But exoterically it i= s the reverse. Therefore, in ordinary human law, an assault is more severely punished than the thought or intention, i.e., the threat, whereas Karmicall= y it is the contrary." TRANS 142 ATTUNING ONE'S CONSCIOUSNESS TO THE 7 CHORDS "...Whenever you are able to attune your consciousness to any of the seven chords of 'Universal Consciousness,' those chords that run along the sounding-board of Kosmos, vibrating from one Eternity to another; when you have studied thoroughly 'the music of the Spheres [the 7 principles of Nature and of man and their correlations]," then only will you become quite free to share your knowledge with those with whom it is safe to do so...Do not give out the great Truths that are the inheritance of the future Races, to our present generation. Do not attempt to unveil the secret of being an= d non-being to those unable to see the hidden meaning of Apollo's HEPTACHORD--the lyre of the radiant god, in each of the seven strings of which dwelleth the Spirit, Soul and Astral body of the Kosmos, whose shell only has now fallen into the hands of Modern Science..." SD I 167 [see also S D I 570-5] CONSCIOUS THOUGHT CONTROL "You will always find victory over evil thoughts most practicable if they are grappled with on first appearance and before making headway. It is for their reception and not for their appearance that one is responsible..."I cannot prevent birds from flying over my head, but I can prevent their making nests in my hair." There is much in this." WQJ--PRACTICAL OCCULTISM, p. 68 DREAMS AND DREAMING "In the dream state we lose all knowledge of the objects which while awake we thought real and proceed to suffer and enjoy in that new state. [ see S= D I 47 ] In this we find the consciousness applying itself to objects partaking of course of the nature of experiences of the waking condition, but at the same time producing the sensations of pleasure and pain while they last. [ see SD I 56 ] Let us imagine a person's body plunged in a lethargy extending over twenty years and the mind undergoing a pleasant or unpleasant dream, and we have a life just of that sort, altogether differen= t from the life of one awake. For the consciousness of this dreamer the reality of objects known during the waking state is destroyed. But as material existence is a necessary evil and the one is which alone emancipation or salvation can be obtained, it is of the greatest importance and hence Karma which governs it...must be well understood and then be accepted and obeyed." Echoes. pp. 41-42 "Dreams are sometimes the result of brain action automatically proceeding, and are also produced by the transmission into the brain by the real inner person of those senses or ideas high or low which the real person has seen while the body slept. They are then strained into the brain as if floating on the soul as it sinks into the body. These dreams may be of great use, but generally the resumption of bodily activity destroys the meaning, perverts the image, and reduces all to confusion.=20 But the great fact of all dreaming is that some one perceives and feels therein and this is one of the arguments for the inner person's existence. =20 In sleep the inner man communes with higher intelligences, and sometimes succeeds in impressing the brain with what is gained, either a high idea or a prophetic vision, or else fails in consequence of the resistance of the brain fiber. The karma of the person also determines the meaning of a dream, for a kind may dream that which relates to his kingdom, which the same thing dreamed by a citizen relates to nothing of temporal consequence. But, as said by Job: "In dreams and visions of the night man is instructed." Ocean, p. 143-4 =09 INTUITION "...a projection of our perceptive consciousness, a projection which acts from the subjective to the objective...awakens in us spiritual senses and the power to act; these senses assimilate to themselves the essence of the object or of the action under examination, and represent it to us as it really is, not as it appears to our physical senses and to our cold reason...omniscience." HPB I 428 "...the "Ego" in man is a monad that has gathered to itself innumerable experiences through aeons of time, slowly unfolding its latent potencies through plane after plane of matter. It is hence called the "eternal pilgrim." The Manasic, or mind principle, is cosmic and universal. It is the creator of all forms, and the basis of all law in nature. Not so with consciousness. Consciousness is a condition of the monad as a result of embodiment in matter and the dwelling in a physical form. Self-consciousness, which from the animal plane looking upward is the beginning of perfection, from the divine plane looking downwards is the perfection of selfishness and the curse of separateness. it is the "world of illusion" that man has created for himself. "Maya is the perceptive faculty of every Ego which considers itself a Unit, separate from and independent of the One Infinite and Eternal Sat or 'be-ness'," (SD I 329) The "eternal pilgrim" must therefore mount higher, and flee from the plane of self-consciousness it has struggled so hard to reach." WQJ ART I 29 [ Ascetic making himself invisible to another.=09 WQJ LETTERS 142 [ PAT 45-6 Q & A 216 ] =20 PERFECTION OF CONSCIOUSNESS IN THE ADEPT "The word Adept signifies proficiency, and is not uncommon...A Mahatma is not only an Adept, but much more...maha, great, and atma, soul--hence Great Soul...a perfected human being, one who has attained to the state often described by mystics and held by scientific men to be an impossibility, whe= n time and space are no obstacles to sight, to action, to knowledge or to consciousness...and also to possess information of a decidedly practical character concerning the laws of nature, including that mystery for science--the meaning, operation and constitution of life itself--and concerning the genesis of this planet as well as the races upon it." WQJ--Echoes, p. 23 A CONCATENATION OF CAUSES "NIDANA (Sk.). The 12 causes of existence, or a chain of causation, "a concatenation of cause and effect..." the fundamental dogma of Buddhist thought, "the understanding of which solves the riddle of life, revealing the inanity of existence and preparing the mind for Nirvana."=20=20=20=09 (Eitel's Sanskrit & Chinese Dictionary)... (1) Jati... birth... (2) Jaramarana, or decrepitude and death, following the maturity of the Skandhas=20 =20 (3) Bhava, the Karmic agent which leads every=20=09 new sentient being to be born in=20=09 this or another mode of existence=20=09 in the Trailokya and Gati.=20 (4) Upadhana, the creative cause of Bhava which=20=09 thus becomes the cause of Jati=20=09 which is the effect; and this=20=09 creative cause is the clinging to life.=20=20 (5) Trishna, love, whether pure or impure.=20=20 (6) Vedana [Vidana], or sensation; perception by the senses, it is the 5th Skandha.=20=20 (7) Sparsa, the sense of touch.=20=20 (8) Chadyatana, the organ of sensation.=20=20 (9) Namarupa, personality, i.e., a form with a=20=09 name to it, the symbol of the=20=09 unreality of material phenomenal=20=09 appearances.=20=20 (10) Vijnana [Vidyana ?], the perfect knowledge of=20=09 every perceptible thing and of all=20=09 objects in their concatenation and=20=09 unity.=20=20 (11) Samskara, action on the plane of illusion.=20=20 (12) Avidya, lack of true perception, or ignorance..." T. GLOS. p. 229 DREAMLESS SLEEP "Dreamless sleep is one of the seven states of consciousness known in Oriental esotericism. In each of these states a different portion of the mind comes into action; or as a Vedantin would express it, the individual is conscious in a different plane of his being. The term "dreamless sleep,= " in this case is applied allegorically to the Universe to express a conditio= n somewhat analogous to that state of consciousness in man, which, not being remembered is a waking state, seems a blank, just as the sleep of the mesmerized subject seems to him an unconscious blank when he returns to his normal condition, although he has been talking and acting as a conscious individual would." SD I 47 "Buddhi the Spiritual soul...because it is the direct cause of Sushupti [deep sleep]...leading to Turiya...the highest state of Samadhi [ Meditatio= n ]...Buddhi becomes a "causal body" in conjunction with Manas the incarnatio= n of the Entity or Ego..." Glossary, p. 74 "Good resolutions are mind-painted pictures of good deeds, fancies, day-dreams, whisperings of the Buddhi to the Manas..." Letters from the Masters of Wisdom (I) p 60-1 [ more details on Dreams will be found: Transaction of the Blavatsky Lodge, pp 58..., Isis I 179 see Indexes to Judge and HPB Articles, SD, Sleep and Dreams, R. Crosbie, F. P. p. 258, 66-67 Dreams and Karma " " Ans. to Quest. p. 219-221 Dreamless Sleep SD I 38, 47, 266 Because for Children who ask Why? p. 70... "The Psychology of Dreams" - Theosophy Mag. Vol. 6 To consider: Trance, Meditation, Deep Sleep, Sushupti,=20=09 Turiya, Memory, personality, Individuality, Will, Consciousness... Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 -----Original Message----- >From Cass Silva Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 4:12 PM To:=20 Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: [Mind and Brain] meaning and information Hi Leon, I will need to spend a few days digesting all that you have said. My neura= l connections seem to require this time frame, however my first reaction to your statement=20 Or that the lower mental field of the developing fetus can receive impulses transmitted to it from the conscious and unconscious thoughts of its mother= . This could correspond to the=20 reported response of a plant to the loving or hateful thoughts directed to it.=20 Cass: Doesn't this suggest that some sort of consciousness precedes brain function? All of the bodies, higher mental, lower mental, astral, and etheric are waiting on the threshold to animate the foetus. Perhaps as yo= u say, the foetus, dreams because of its formed astral body, perhaps also it is able to think, prior to the formation of the brain, because of its lower/higher mental body. "The soul, says Porphyry, having even after death a certain affection for its body, an affinity proportioned to the violence with which their union was broken". IU Cass: Perhaps the soul has an affinity for its physical form in the womb? Unfortunately if this is the case it can never be proven at a scientific level. I read in Isis or SD that consciousness precedes intelligence, will need to do a bit of research today. Cass =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D leonmaurer@aol.com wrote: Cass, I'm not sure I understand how a fetus can react to a visual stimulus from the=20 outer world. How would the light reflected from that world penetrate to the=20 retinas of the fetal eyes? Besides, I'm not so sure the fetus has yet=20 connected to the mind -- which in itself, would have no direct connection t= o the=20 reflected visual images of the outer world.=20=20=20 I think theosophy teaches, and I tend to agree, that the unborn fetus has not=20 yet attached itself to the higher mind. From a conscious mind standpoin= t -- all it has, apparently, is the instinctive reaction of each of its=20 developing cells, and later, organs, to the immediate environment they are surrounded=20 by and growing in -- guided by their DNA's encoding that, through its=20 coenergetic fields, are linked directly to the astral form of the developin= g body at=20 each stage of its growth. For that early developmental level of consciousness,=20 there would be no need for a brain, although its lower instinctive mind could=20 be operative and storing memories of its immediate environmentally causal=20 experiences. Also, it seems obvious to me that, in those early stages of= =20 development, the fetus couldn't have any functioning "neural" connections t= o speak=20 of.=20=20=20 I would think, then, that the developing fetus' only contact with the outer= =20 world would be through the direct physical pressure waves that are transmitted=20 to it through the surrounding amnionic fluid. This could include sound waves=20 that are transmitted through the body and the uterus of the mother. But, = I doubt if light waves could get through, or if higher order mind field=20 information could effect the waking consciousness of the fetus. Although, I don't=20 doubt that the Monad connected to each developing fetus might be dreaming until=20 it opens its eyes in the outer world... Or that the lower mental field of the=20 developing fetus can receive impulses transmitted to it from the conscious and=20 unconscious thoughts of its mother. This could correspond to the reported= =20 response of a plant to the loving or hateful thoughts directed to it. = =20 Speculatively, all that also could be the cause of the prenatal "engrams" o= r residual=20 memories carried by the growing baby-child into later life that might effec= t its future psychological states of mind. I hope this makes some theosophical sense. Len From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Jan 23 17:29:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56908 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2006 01:29:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2006 01:29:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.70) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2006 01:29:22 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.217] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1F1CxR-0000rX-Ut; Mon, 23 Jan 2006 20:26:54 -0500 To: Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 17:26:38 -0800 Message-ID: <027e01c62085$3d9c4af0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <000801c62048$d2eb2dc0$f0579904@JoeyMeredith> X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79152228d99cb6abe88fe94ad89c7d779c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: our deepest fear X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=A8KD4W3L0IPILO5e9mDiuH3tGV-KjlTq8o2PTNpZTGRXYw X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/23/2006 5:15 PM Dear Bill: If as 7-fold beings, our roots are SPIRITUAL and our "feet" and present being is immersed in matter, then how can we escape knowing in our Inner SELF that: -- " Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us.' ..... We are all meant to shine, as children do.... It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we subconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we're liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others." To state a fact is one thing. To prove it is another. BASIC THEOSOPHY TEACHES .DOC BASIC THEOSOPHY TEACHES From: ISIS UNVEILED=20 "The work now submitted to public judgment is the fruit of a somewhat intimate acquaintance with Eastern Adepts and study of their science. .we came into contact with certain men, endowed with such mysterious powers and such profound knowledge that we may truly designate them as the sages o= f the Orient. To their instructions we lent a ready ear." ISIS UNVEILED I, v= , vi "... From the first ages of man, the fundamental truths of all that we are permitted to know on earth was in the safe keeping of the adepts of the sanctuary. .those guardians of the primitive divine revelation, who had solved every problem that is within the grasp of human intellect, were bound together by a universal freemasonry of science and philosophy, which formed one unbroke= n chain around the globe."=20 ISIS UNVEILED I, 37-38 "There are, scattered throughout the world, a handful of thoughtful and solitary students, who pass their lives in obscurity, far from the rumors o= f the world, studying the great problems of the physical and spiritual universes. They have their secret records in which are preserved the fruits of the scholastic labors of the long line of recluses whose successors they are." ISIS UNVEILED I, 557 MANVANTARA & PRALAYA "The esoteric doctrine ... teaches ... that the one infinite and unknown Essence exists from all eternity, and in regular and harmonious successions is either passive or active.=20 In the poetical phraseology of Manu these conditions are called the 'day' and the 'night' of Brahma. The latter is either 'awake' or 'asleep.'=20 Upon inaugurating an active period, says The Secret Doctrine, an expansion of this Divine essence, from within outwardly, occurs in obedience to eternal and immutable law, and the phenomenal or visible universe is the ultimate result of the long chain of cosmical forces thus progressively set in motion.=20 In like manner, when the passive condition is resumed, a contraction of the Divine essence takes place, and the previous work of creation is gradually and progressively undone. The visible universe becomes disintegrated, its material dispersed; and 'darkness,' solitary and alone, broods once more over the face of the 'deep.' To use a metaphor which will convey the idea still more clearly, an out breathing of the 'unknown essence' produces the world; and an inhalation causes it to disappear. This process has been goin= g on from all eternity, and our present universe is but one of an infinite series which had no beginning and will have no end." ISIS UNVEILED II, pp. 264-265 "... Many are those who ... will remain in doubt and mortal agony as to whether, when man dies, he will live again, although the question has been solved by long bygone generations of sages ... except the initiates, no one has understood the mystic writing. The key was in the keeping of those who knew how to commune with the invisible Presence, and who had received, from the lips of mother Nature herself, her grand truths." ISIS UNVEILED, Vol. I, 573 "Gautama, no less than all other great reformers, had a doctrine for his 'elect' and another for the outside masses ... Gautama left the esoteric an= d most dangerous portion of the 'secret knowledge' untouched. " ISIS UNVEILED, II, 319 "... The Secret Doctrine is the Truth ..." ISIS UNVEILED, II, 292 "This 'secret doctrine' contains the alpha and omega of universal science; therein lies the corner and the keystone of all the ancient and modern knowledge; and alone in this ... doctrine remains buried the absolute in th= e philosophy of the dark problems of life and death." ISIS UNVEILED, I, 511 "The Northern seer Swedenborg, advises people to search for the lost word among the hierophants of Tartary, China and Thibet; for it is there, and only there now ... The four Vedas; the Books of Hermes; the Chaldean Book o= f Numbers; the Nazarene Codex; the Kabala ... ; the Sepher Jezira; the Book o= f Wisdom ... ; the Brahmanas; the Stan-gyour, of the Thibetans; all these volumes have the same ground-work. Varying but in allegories they teach the same secret doctrine which ... will prove to be the Ultima Thule of true philosophy, and disclose what is this lost word." ISIS UNVEILED, I, 580 "The 'secret doctrine' or wisdom was identical in every country." ISIS UNVEILED I, 444 "Thus is it that all the religious monuments of old, in whatever land or under whatever climate, are the expression of the same identical thoughts, the key to which is in the esoteric doctrine ... And the clergy of every nation, though practicing rites and ceremonies which may have differed externally, had evidently been initiated into the same traditional mysterie= s which were taught all over the world." ISIS UNVEILED, I, 561 THEOLOGIES ARE UNITED AT ROOT "What we desire to prove is, that underlying every ancient popular religion was the same ancient wisdom- doctrine, one and identical, professed and practiced by the initiates of every country, who alone were aware of its existence and importance ...=20 A single glance ... is enough to assure one that it could not have attained the marvelous perfection in which we find it pictured to us in the relics o= f the various esoteric systems, except after a succession of ages. A philosophy so profound, a moral code so ennobling, and practical results so conclusive and so uniformly demonstrable is not the growth of a generation, or even a single epoch. Fact must have been piled upon fact, deduction upon deduction, science have begotten science, and myriads of the brightest huma= n intellects have reflected upon the laws of nature, before this ancient doctrine had taken concrete shape. The proofs of this identity of fundamental doctrine in the old religions are found in the prevalence of a system of initiation; in the secret sacerdotal castes who had the guardianship of mystical words of power, and a public display of a phenomenal control over natural forces, indicating association with preterhuman beings ...=20 As we proceed, we will point out the evidences of this identity of vows, formulas, rites, and doctrines, between the ancient faiths. We will also show that not only their memory is still preserved in India, but also that the Secret Association is still alive and as active as ever ... the chief pontiff and hierophant, the Brahmatma, is still accessible to those 'who know,' though perhaps recognized by another name; and that the ramification= s of his influence extend throughout the world." ISIS UNVEILED, II, pp. 99-100 "Our examination of the multitudinous religious faiths that mankind, early and late, have professed, most assuredly indicates that they have all been derived from one primitive source. It would seem as if they were all but different modes of expressing the yearning of the imprisoned human soul for intercourse with supernal spheres.=20 As the white ray of light is decomposed by the prism into the various color= s of the solar spectrum, so the beam of divine truth, in passing through the three-sided prism of man's nature, has been broken up into varicolored fragments called religions. And, as the rays of the spectrum, by imperceptible shadings, merge into each other, so the great theologies that have appeared at different degrees of divergence from the original source, have been connected by minor schisms, schools, and off-shoots from the one side or the other.=20 Combined, their aggregate represents one eternal truth; separate, they are but shades of human error and the signs of imperfection ... " "What has bee= n contemptuously termed Paganism, was ancient wisdom replete with Deity; and Judaism and its offspring, Christianity and Islamism, derived whatever of inspiration they contained from this ethic parent. Pre-Vedic Brahmanism and Buddhism are the double source from which all religions sprung; Nirvana is the ocean to which all tend." ISIS UNVEILED , II, 639 See if some of these ideas help. Best wishes,=20 Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 -----Original Message----- From: Bill Meredith Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 10:14 AM To:=20 Subject: Theos-World our deepest fear " 'Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that mos= t frightens us.' ..... We are all meant to shine, as children do.... It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we subconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we're liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others." =20 - Marianne Williamson From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Jan 24 03:38:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62483 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2006 11:38:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2006 11:38:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.70) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2006 11:38:14 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.217] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1F1MQR-0004C3-0t; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 06:33:28 -0500 To: "P AAA-Vicky" Cc: "AAA-Dal" , "AAA-LeonM" , "AA-S. Levey" , "AA-RamuBom" Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 03:32:27 -0800 Message-ID: <029301c620d9$f24618b0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 00000000BB4291F821364E4F99468FE29E444A0AC4624600 X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79b691a5e32cb3db6b871705b81a747c3b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: FW: DNA Can Be Influenced And Reprogrammed By Words And Frequencies Russian DNA Discoveries X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=FCPT5pFZ9Q-_D8rUYrQXsZ7zxkjqixAa-lHiGic0Xggj0Q X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Of interest ? Paras ? =20 Dallas =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 -----Original Message----- From: Odin [mailto:otownley@gmail.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 1:49 AM To: Reed; Jerome Wheeler; Dallas Subject: DNA Can Be Influenced And Reprogrammed By Words And Frequencies Russian DNA Discoveries =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 =20 SPIRITUAL SCIENCE: DNA is influneced by words and frequencies By Grazyna Fosar and Franz Bludorf =20 =20 http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Spirituality_and_Science/id/4161 =20 http://noosphere.princeton.edu/fristwall2.html =20 =20 DNA Can Be Influenced And Reprogrammed By Words And Frequencies Russian DNA Discoveries =20 =20 The human DNA is a biological Internet and superior in many aspects to the artificial one.=20 =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 =20 The latest Russian SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH directly or indirectly explains phenomena such as clairvoyance, intuition, spontaneous and remote acts of healing, self healing, affirmation techniques, unusual light/auras around people (namely spiritual masters), the mind=C3=AF=C2=BF=C2=BDs influence on weather patterns and muc= h more. =20 =20 In addition, there is evidence for a whole new type of medicine in which DNA can be influenced and reprogrammed by words and frequencies WITHOUT cutting out and replacing single genes. =20 Only 10% of our DNA is being used for building proteins. It is this subset of DNA that is of interest to western researchers and is being examined and categorized.=20 =20 The other 90% are considered "junk DNA. The Russian researchers, however, convinced that nature was not dumb, joined linguists and geneticists in a venture to explore those 90% of "junk DNA".=20 =20 =20 Their results, findings and conclusions are simply revolutionary! =20 =20 ACCORDING TO THEM, our DNA is not only responsible for the construction of our body but also serves as data storage and communication.=20 =20 =20 The Russian linguists found that the genetic code, especially in the apparently useless 90%, follows the same rules as all our human languages. To this end they compared the rules of syntax (the way in which words are put together to form phrases and sentences), semantics (the study of meaning in language forms) and the basic rules of grammar. =20 They found that the alkalines of our DNA follow regular grammar and do have set rules just like our languages.=20 =20 =20 So human languages did not appear coincidentally but are a reflection of ou= r inherent DNA. =20 The Russian biophysicist and molecular biologist Pjotr Garjajev and his colleagues also explored the vibrational behavior of the DNA. [For the sake of brevity I will give only a summary here. For further exploration please refer to the appendix at the end of this article.] =20 =20 The bottom line was: =20 "Living chromosomes function just like solitonic/holographic computers using the endogenous DNA laser radiation." =20 =20 This means that they managed, for example, to modulate certain frequency patterns onto a laser ray and with it influenced the DNA frequency and thus the genetic information itself. Since the basic structure of DNA-alkaline pairs and of language (as explained earlier) are of the same structure, no DNA decoding is necessary. One can simply use words and sentences of the human language! =20 This, too, was experimentally proven! Living DNA substance (in living tissue, not in vitro) will always react to language-modulated laser rays and even to radio waves, if the proper frequencies are being used.=20 =20 =20 This finally and scientifically explains why affirmations, autogenous training, hypnosis and the like can have such strong effects on humans and their bodies.=20 =20 =20 It is entirely normal and natural for our DNA to react to language.=20 =20 =20 While western researchers cut single genes from the DNA strands and insert them elsewhere, the Russians enthusiastically worked on devices that can influence the cellular metabolism through suitable modulated radio and light frequencies and thus repair genetic defects. =20 Garjajev's research group succeeded in proving that with this method chromosomes damaged by x-rays for example can be repaired.=20 =20 They even captured information patterns of a particular DNA and transmitted it onto another, thus reprogramming cells to another genome. So they successfully transformed, for example, frog embryos to salamander embryos simply by transmitting the DNA information patterns! =20 This way the entire information was transmitted without any of the side effects or disharmonies encountered when cutting out and re-introducing single genes from the DNA. This represents an unbelievable, world-transforming revolution and sensation!=20 =20 All this by simply applying vibration and language instead of the archaic cutting-out procedure! =20 =20 This experiment points to the immense power of wave genetics, which obviously has a greater influence on the formation of organisms than the biochemical processes of alkaline sequences. =20 =20 ESOTERIC AND SPIRITUAL TEACHERS=20 =20 Esoteric and spiritual teachers have known for ages that our body is programmable by language, words and thought. This has now been scientifically proven and explained. Of course the frequency has to be correct. And this is why not everybody is equally successful or can do it with always the same strength.=20 =20 The individual person must work on the inner processes and maturity in orde= r to establish a conscious communication with the DNA. The Russian researcher= s work on a method that is not dependent on these factors but will ALWAYS work, provided one uses the correct frequency. =20 But the higher developed an individual=E2=80=99s consciousness is, the less need is there for any type of device! One can achieve these results by oneself, and science will finally stop laughing at such ideas and will confirm and explain the results.=20 =20 The Russian scientists also found out that our DNA can cause disturbing patterns in the vacuum, thus producing magnetized wormholes!=20 =20 =20 WORMHOLES =20 Wormholes are the microscopic equivalents of the so-called Einstein-Rosen bridges in the vicinity of black holes (left by burned-out stars). =20 These are tunnel connections between entirely different areas in the universe through which information can be transmitted outside of space and time.=20 =20 =20 HYPERCOMMUNICATION =20 The DNA attracts these bits of information and passes them on to our consciousness. This process of hypercommunication is most effective in a state of relaxation. Stress, worries or a hyperactive intellect prevent successful hypercommunication or the information will be totally distorted and useless. In nature, hypercommunication has been successfully applied for millions of years. The organized flow of life in insect states proves this dramatically.=20 =20 Modern man knows it only on a much more subtle level as "intuition".=20 But we, too, can regain full use of it. =20 An example from Nature: When a queen ant is spatially separated from her colony, building still continues fervently and according to plan. If the queen is killed, however, all work in the colony stops. No ant knows what to do. Apparently the queen sends the "building plans" also from far away via the group consciousness of her subjects. She can be as far away as she wants, as long as she is alive. In man hypercommunication is most often encountered when one suddenly gains access to information that is outside one=E2=80=99s knowledge base. =20 =20 INTUITION =20 Such hypercommunication is then experienced as inspiration or intuition. The Italian composer Giuseppe Tartini for instance dreamt one night that a devil sat at his bedside playing the violin. The next morning Tartini was able to note down the piece exactly from memory, he called it the Devil=E2=80=99s Trill Sonata. =20 =20 UNIVERSAL KNOWLEDGE ACCESSED =20 For years, a 42-year old male nurse dreamt of a situation in which he was hooked up to a kind of knowledge CD-ROM. Verifiable knowledge from all imaginable fields was then transmitted to him that he was able to recall in the morning. There was such a flood of information that it seemed a whole encyclopedia was transmitted at night. The majority of facts were outside his personal knowledge base and reached technical details about which he knew absolutely nothing. =20 When hypercommunication occurs, one can observe in the DNA as well as in the human being special phenomena. The Russian scientists irradiated DNA samples with laser light. On screen a typical wave pattern was formed. When they removed the DNA sample, the wave pattern did not disappear, it remained. Many control experiments showed that the pattern still came from the removed sample, whose energy field apparently remained by itself. This effect is now called phantom DNA effect. =20 It is surmised that energy from outside of space and time still flows through the activated wormholes after the DNA was removed. The side effect encountered most often in hypercommunication also in human beings are inexplicable electromagnetic fields in the vicinity of the persons concerned. =20 =20 Electronic devices like CD players and the like can be irritated and cease to function for hours. When the electromagnetic field slowly dissipates, the devices function normally again. Many healers and psychics know this effect from their work. The better the atmosphere and the energy, the more frustrating it is that the recording device stops functioning and recording exactly at that moment. And repeated switching on and off after the session does not restore function yet, but next morning all is back to normal. Perhaps this is reassuring to read for many, as it has nothing to do with them being technically inept, it means they are good at hypercommunication. =20 In their book "Vernetzte Intelligenz" (Network Intelligence), Grazyna Gosar and Franz Bludorf explain these connections precisely and clearly. =20 =20 INDIVIDUALITY =20 The authors also quote sources presuming that in earlier times humanity had been, just like the animals, very strongly connected to the group consciousness and acted as a group. To develop and experience INDIVIDUALITY we humans however had to forget hypercommunication almost completely. =20 =20 LEARNING ? =20 Now that we are fairly stable in our individual consciousness, we can create a new form of group consciousness, namely one, in which we attain access to all information via our DNA without being forced or remotely controlled about what to do with that information. We now know that just as on the internet our DNA can feed its proper data into the network, can call up data from the network and can establish contact with other participants in the network. [ DANGER D T B ] =20 =20 =20 TELEPATHY OR "REMOTE SENSING"=20 =20 =20 Remote healing, telepathy or "remote sensing" about the state of relatives etc. can thus be explained. Some animals know also from afar when their owners plan to return home. That can be freshly interpreted and explained via the concepts of group consciousness and hypercommunication. Any collective consciousness cannot be sensibly used over any period of time without a distinctive individuality. Otherwise we would revert to a primitive herd instinct that is easily manipulated. [ DANGER D T B ] =20 =20 Hypercommunication in the new millennium means something quite different: Researchers think that if humans with full individuality would regain group consciousness, they would have a god-like power to create, alter and shape things on Earth! AND humanity is collectively moving toward such a group consciousness of the new kind. Fifty percent of today=C3=AF=C2=BF=C2=BDs children will be problem children as so= on as the go to school. The system lumps everyone together and demands adjustment. But the individuality of today=C3=AF=C2=BF=C2=BDs children is s= o strong that that they refuse this adjustment and giving up their idiosyncrasies in the most diverse ways. =20 At the same time more and more clairvoyant children are born [see the book "CHINA=E2=80=99S INDIGO CHILDREN" by Paul Dong or the chapter about Indigos in my book "Nutze die taeglichen Wunder"(Make Use of the Daily Wonders)].=20 =20 Something in those children is striving more and more towards the group consciousness of the new kind, and it will no longer be suppressed!=20 =20 =20 WEATHER =20 As a rule WEATHER, for example, is rather difficult to influence by a single individual. But it may be influenced by a group consciousness (nothing new to some tribes doing it in their rain dances).=20 =20 Weather is strongly influenced by Earth resonance frequencies, the so-called Schumann frequencies. But those same frequencies are also produced in our brains, and when many people synchronize their thinking or individuals (spiritual masters, for instance) focus their thoughts in a laser-like fashion, then it is scientifically speaking not at all surprising if they can thus influence weather. =20 =20 Researchers in group consciousness have formulated the theory of Type I civilizations. A humanity that developed a group consciousness of the new kind would have neither environmental problems nor scarcity of energy. For if it were to use its mental power as a unified civilization, it would have control of the energies of its home planet as a natural consequence. And that includes all natural catastrophes!!!=20 =20 A theoretical Type II civilization would even be able to control all energies of their home galaxy. [ ? ] =20 In my book "Nutze die taeglichen Wunder" (Make Use of the Daily Wonders), I have described an example of this:=20 =20 Whenever a great many people focus their attention or consciousness on something similar like Christmas time, a football world championship or the funeral of Lady Diana in England then certain random number generators in computers start to deliver ordered numbers instead of the random ones. An ordered group consciousness creates order in its whole surroundings!!! =20 http://noosphere.princeton.edu/fristwall2.html=20 =20 When a great number of people get together very closely, potentials of violence also dissolve. It looks as if here, too, a kind of humanitarian consciousness of all humanity is created.=20 =20 At the Love Parade, for example, where every year about one million of youn= g people congregate, there has never been any brutal riots as they occur for instance at sports events. The name of the event alone is not seen as the cause here. The result of an analysis indicated rather that the number of people was TOO GREAT to allow a tipping over to violence. =20 To come back to the DNA: It apparently is also an organic superconductor that can work at normal body temperature. Artificial superconductors require extremely low temperatures of between 200 and 140 =E2=97=8B C to function. =20 =20 ENERGY =20 As one recently learned, all superconductors are able to store light and thus information. This is a further explanation of how the DNA can store information. There is another phenomenon linked to DNA and wormholes. Normally, these super small wormholes are highly unstable and are maintained only for the tiniest fractions of a second. Under certain conditions (read about it in the Fosar/Bludorf book above) stable wormholes can organize themselves which then form distinctive vacuum domains in which, for example, gravity can transform into electricity. Vacuum domains are self-radiant balls of ionized gas that contain considerable amounts of energy. =20 =20 U F O=E2=80=99s ? thought controlled ? =20 There are regions in Russia where such radiant balls appear very often. Following the ensuing confusion the Russians started massive research programs leading finally to some of the discoveries mentions above. Many people know vacuum domains as shiny balls in the sky. The attentive look at them in wonder and ask themselves, what they could be. I thought once: "Hello up there. If you happen to be a UFO, fly in a triangle." And suddenly, the light balls moved in a triangle. Or they shot across the sky like ice hockey pucks. They accelerated from zero to crazy speeds while sliding gently across the sky. =20 One is left gawking and I have, as many others, too, thought them to be UFOs. Friendly ones, apparently, as they flew in triangles just to please me. Now the Russians found in the regions where vacuum domains appear often they sometimes fly as balls of light from the ground upwards into the sky, that these balls can be guided by thought. One has found out since that vacuum domains emit waves of low frequency as they are also produced in our brains. And because of this similarity of waves they are able to react to our thoughts. =20 To run excitedly into one that is on ground level might not be such a great idea, because those balls of light can contain immense energies and are able to mutate our genes. They can, they don=E2=80=99t necessarily have to, one has to say.=20 =20 =20 AURA ? =20 For many spiritual teachers also produce such visible balls or columns of light in deep meditation or during energy work which trigger decidedly pleasant feelings and do not cause any harm. Apparently this is also dependent on some inner order and on the quality and provenance of the vacuum domain. =20 There are some spiritual teachers (the young Englishman Ananda, for example) with whom nothing is seen at first, but when one tries to take a photograph while they sit and speak or meditate in hypercommunication, one gets only a picture of a white cloud on a chair. In some Earth healing projects such light effects also appear on photographs. =20 =20 Simply put, these phenomena have to do with gravity and anti-gravity forces that are also exactly described in the book and with ever more stable wormholes and hyper-communication and thus with energies from outside our time and space structure. Earlier generations that got in contact with such hypercommunication experiences and visible vacuum domains were convinced that an angel had appeared before them. =20 And we cannot be too sure to what forms of consciousness we can get access when using hypercommunication. Not having scientific proof for their actual existence (people having had such experiences do NOT all suffer from hallucinations) does not mean that there is no metaphysical background to it. We have simply made another giant step towards understanding our reality. =20 =20 Official science also knows of gravity anomalies on Earth (that contribute to the formation of vacuum domains), but only of ones of below one percent. But recently gravity anomalies have been found of between three and four percent. One of these places is Rocca di Papa, south of Rome (exact location in the book "Vernetzte Intelligenz" plus several others). Round objects of all kinds, from balls to full buses, roll uphill. But the stretch in Rocca di Papa is rather short, and defying logic sceptics still flee to the theory of optical illusion (which it cannot be due to several features of the location). =20 All informations are from the book "Vernetzte Intelligenz" von Grazyna Fosar und Franz Bludorf, ISBN 3930243237, summarized and commented by Baerbel. The book is unfortunately only available in German so far. You can reach the authors here: =20 [ www.fosar-bludorf.com ] [2]; Transmitted by Vitae Bergman [ www.ryze.com/view.php?who=3Dvitaeb ] [3] =3D=3D=3DReferences:=3D=3D=3D 1. http://noosphere.princeton.edu/fristwall2.html 2. http://www.fosar-bludorf.com 3. http://www.ryze.com/view.php?who=3Dvitaeb [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Jan 24 11:48:32 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80422 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2006 19:48:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2006 19:48:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.70) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2006 19:48:30 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.217] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1F1U98-00026W-3F; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 14:48:08 -0500 To: "'Gordon Wood'" Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 11:47:44 -0800 Message-ID: <02dc01c6211f$124e4520$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <200601240837.1f1omo28T3Nl36s2@mx-canard.atl.sa.earthlink.net> X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec799f30867af625ac1b36d6efe39be41aff350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: DNA Can Be Influenced And Reprogrammed By Words And Frequencies Russian DNA Discoveries X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=b5kzjQsEBQAf3MQnos7AM3cD3SLZzQyL7iWsQjnTXdh6ag X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable January 24, 2006 =20 Thanks Gordon: =20 Most interesting =E2=80=93 now if this has been happening for ages, what i= s the best use one can draw from it? =20 If the facts are true what =E2=80=9Cmissing links=E2=80=9D are bridged? =20 Dallas =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 -----Original Message----- From: Gordon Wood [mailto:gwood-2@comcast.net]=20 Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 5:37 AM To: dalval14@earthlink.net Subject: RE: DNA Can Be Influenced And Reprogrammed By Words And Frequencie= s Russian DNA Discoveries =20 Dallas, =20 Thanx for copy. This is fascinating! I can personally confirm some of this= . For example, the light ball of energy =E2=80=93 it happened to me one eve= ning late this summer when I took a break from a non-traditional spiritual = group discussion. Seemed like a light ball, up in the sky, moved and stoppe= d at my command. I thought it was an aircraft landing light at first so I w= as simply thinking if it moves away then I should not be able to see it. Ne= xt thing that happened was it moved away and I still saw it. It was also br= ighter than most landing lights I have seen. I wondered what it was but did= n=E2=80=99t dig into it any. I have also practiced remote viewing a little = bit and have had some success with it. I have a close friend who is quite = good at it. The US government has practiced it for years and in the late 90= =E2=80=99s released a =E2=80=9Cprotocol=E2=80=9D for how to do it. I think = the idea is to connect with the =E2=80=9Ccollective consciousness=E2=80=9D.= I recently purchased 3 books on the subject but haven=E2=80=99t gotten aro= und to reading them yet. =20 Influencing DNA is interesting because that seems like a reasonable explana= tion for what folks like Matrix Energetics are up to. Link attached. Also, = my nephew and I were discussing this idea of adjusting DNA just yesterday m= orning. Hummmm=E2=80=A6. makes you wonder why this came my way today doesn= =E2=80=99t it?=20 =20 G =20 http://www.matrixenergetics.com/ =20 =20 _____=20=20 From: W.Dallas TenBroeck [mailto:dalval14@earthlink.net]=20 Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 3:32 AM To:=20 Cc:=20 Subject: FW: DNA Can Be Influenced And Reprogrammed By Words And Frequencie= s Russian DNA Discoveries =20 Of interest ? Paras ? =20 Dallas =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 -----Original Message----- From: Odin [mailto:otownley@gmail.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 1:49 AM To: Reed; Jerome Wheeler; Dallas Subject: DNA Can Be Influenced And Reprogrammed By Words And Frequencies Ru= ssian DNA Discoveries =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 =20 SPIRITUAL SCIENCE: DNA is influneced by words and frequencies By Grazyna Fosar and Franz Bludorf =20 =20 http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Spirituality_and_Science/id/4161 =20 http://noosphere.princeton.edu/fristwall2.html =20 =20 DNA Can Be Influenced And Reprogrammed By Words And Frequencies Russian DNA Discoveries =20 =20 The human DNA is a biological Internet and superior in many aspects to the artificial one.=20 =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 =20 The latest Russian SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH directly or indirectly explains phenomena such as clairvoyance, intuition, spontaneous and remote acts of healing, self healing, affirmation techniques, unusual light/auras around people (namely spiritual masters), the mind=C3=AF=C2=BF=C2=BDs influence on weather patterns and muc= h more. =20 =20 In addition, there is evidence for a whole new type of medicine in which DNA can be influenced and reprogrammed by words and frequencies WITHOUT cutting out and replacing single genes. =20 Only 10% of our DNA is being used for building proteins. It is this subset of DNA that is of interest to western researchers and is being examined and categorized.=20 =20 The other 90% are considered "junk DNA. The Russian researchers, however, c= onvinced that nature was not dumb, joined linguists and geneticists in a ve= nture to explore those 90% of "junk DNA".=20 =20 =20 Their results, findings and conclusions are simply revolutionary! =20 =20 ACCORDING TO THEM, our DNA is not only responsible for the construction of our body but also serves as data storage and communication.=20 =20 =20 The Russian linguists found that the genetic code, especially in the apparently useless 90%, follows the same rules as all our human languages. To this end they compared the rules of syntax (the way in which words are put together to form phrases and sentences), semantics (the study of meaning in language forms) and the basic rules of grammar. =20 They found that the alkalines of our DNA follow regular grammar and do have set rules just like our languages.=20 =20 =20 So human languages did not appear coincidentally but are a reflection of ou= r inherent DNA. =20 The Russian biophysicist and molecular biologist Pjotr Garjajev and his colleagues also explored the vibrational behavior of the DNA. [For the sake of brevity I will give only a summary here. For further exploration please refer to the appendix at the end of this article.] =20 =20 The bottom line was: =20 "Living chromosomes function just like solitonic/holographic computers using the endogenous DNA laser radiation." =20 =20 This means that they managed, for example, to modulate certain frequency patterns onto a laser ray and with it influenced the DNA frequency and thus the genetic information itself. Since the basic structure of DNA-alkaline pairs and of language (as explained earlier) are of the same structure, no DNA decoding is necessary. One can simply use words and sentences of the human language! =20 This, too, was experimentally proven! Living DNA substance (in living tissue, not in vitro) will always react to language-modulated laser rays and even to radio waves, if the proper frequencies are being used.=20 =20 =20 This finally and scientifically explains why affirmations, autogenous training, hypnosis and the like can have such strong effects on humans and their bodies.=20 =20 =20 It is entirely normal and natural for our DNA to react to language.=20 =20 =20 While western researchers cut single genes from the DNA strands and insert = them elsewhere, the Russians enthusiastically worked on devices that can in= fluence the cellular metabolism through suitable modulated radio and light frequencies and thus repair genetic defects. =20 Garjajev's research group succeeded in proving that with this method chromosomes damaged by x-rays for example can be repaired.=20 =20 They even captured information patterns of a particular DNA and transmitted= it onto another, thus reprogramming cells to another genome. So they successfully transformed, for example, frog embryos to salamander embryos simply by transmitting the DNA information patterns! =20 This way the entire information was transmitted without any of the side effects or disharmonies encountered when cutting out and re-introducing single genes from the DNA. This represents an unbelievable, world-transforming revolution and sensation!=20 =20 All this by simply applying vibration and language instead of the archaic cutting-out procedure! =20 =20 This experiment points to the immense power of wave genetics, which obvious= ly has a greater influence on the formation of organisms than the biochemic= al processes of alkaline sequences. =20 =20 ESOTERIC AND SPIRITUAL TEACHERS=20 =20 Esoteric and spiritual teachers have known for ages that our body is programmable by language, words and thought. This has now been scientifically proven and explained. Of course the frequency has to be correct. And this is why not everybody is equally successful or can do it with always the same strength.=20 =20 The individual person must work on the inner processes and maturity in orde= r to establish a conscious communication with the DNA. The Russian research= ers work on a method that is not dependent on these factors but will ALWAYS work, provided one uses the correct frequency. =20 But the higher developed an individual=E2=80=99s consciousness is, the less need is there for any type of device! One can achieve these results by oneself, and science will finally stop laughing at such ideas and will confirm and explain the results.=20 =20 The Russian scientists also found out that our DNA can cause disturbing pat= terns in the vacuum, thus producing magnetized wormholes!=20 =20 =20 WORMHOLES =20 Wormholes are the microscopic equivalents of the so-called Einstein-Rosen bridges in the vicinity of black holes (left by burned-out stars). =20 These are tunnel connections between entirely different areas in the universe through which information can be transmitted outside of space and time.=20 =20 =20 HYPERCOMMUNICATION =20 The DNA attracts these bits of information and passes them on to our consciousness. This process of hypercommunication is most effective in a state of relaxation. Stress, worries or a hyperactive intellect prevent successful hypercommunication or the information will be totally distorted and useless. In nature, hypercommunication has been successfully applied for millions of years. The organized flow of life in insect states proves this dramatically.=20 =20 Modern man knows it only on a much more subtle level as "intuition".=20 But we, too, can regain full use of it. =20 An example from Nature: When a queen ant is spatially separated from her colony, building still continues fervently and according to plan. If the queen is killed, however, all work in the colony stops. No ant knows what to do. Apparently the queen sends the "building plans" also from far away via the group consciousness of her subjects. She can be as far away as she wants, as long as she is alive. In man hypercommunication is most often encountered when one suddenly gains access to information that is outside one=E2=80=99s knowledge base. =20 =20 INTUITION =20 Such hypercommunication is then experienced as inspiration or intuition. The Italian composer Giuseppe Tartini for instance dreamt one night that a devil sat at his bedside playing the violin. The next morning Tartini was able to note down the piece exactly from memory, he called it the Devil=E2=80=99s Trill Sonata. =20 =20 UNIVERSAL KNOWLEDGE ACCESSED =20 For years, a 42-year old male nurse dreamt of a situation in which he was hooked up to a kind of knowledge CD-ROM. Verifiable knowledge from all imaginable fields was then transmitted to him that he was able to recall in the morning. There was such a flood of information that it seemed a whole encyclopedia was transmitted at night. The majority of facts were outside his personal knowledge base and reached technical details about which he knew absolutely nothing. =20 When hypercommunication occurs, one can observe in the DNA as well as in the human being special phenomena. The Russian scientists irradiated DNA samples with laser light. On screen a typical wave pattern was formed. When they removed the DNA sample, the wave pattern did not disappear, it remained. Many control experiments showed that the pattern still came from the removed sample, whose energy field apparently remained by itself. This effect is now called phantom DNA effect. =20 It is surmised that energy from outside of space and time still flows through the activated wormholes after the DNA was removed. The side effect encountered most often in hypercommunication also in human beings are inexplicable electromagnetic fields in the vicinity of the persons concerned. =20 =20 Electronic devices like CD players and the like can be irritated and cease to function for hours. When the electromagnetic field slowly dissipates, the devices function normally again. Many healers and psychics know this effect from their work. The better the atmosphere and the energy, the more frustrating it is that the recording device stops functioning and recording exactly at that moment. And repeated switching on and off after the session does not restore function yet, but next morning all is back to normal. Perhaps this is reassuring to read for many, as it has nothing to do with them being technically inept, it means they are good at hypercommunication. =20 In their book "Vernetzte Intelligenz" (Network Intelligence), Grazyna Gosar and Franz Bludorf explain these connections precisely and clearly. =20 =20 INDIVIDUALITY =20 The authors also quote sources presuming that in earlier times humanity had been, just like the animals, very strongly connected to the group consciousness and acted as a group. To develop and experience INDIVIDUALITY we humans however had to forget hypercommunication almost completely. =20 =20 LEARNING ? =20 Now that we are fairly stable in our individual consciousness, we can create a new form of group consciousness, namely one, in which we attain access to all information via our DNA without being forced or remotely controlled about what to do with that information. We now know that just as on the internet our DNA can feed its proper data into the network, can call up data from the network and can establish contact with other participants in the network. [ DANGER D T B ] =20 =20 =20 TELEPATHY OR "REMOTE SENSING"=20 =20 =20 Remote healing, telepathy or "remote sensing" about the state of relatives etc. can thus be explained. Some animals know also from afar when their owners plan to return home. That can be freshly interpreted and explained via the concepts of group consciousness and hypercommunication. Any collective consciousness cannot be sensibly used over any period of time without a distinctive individuality. Otherwise we would revert to a primitive herd instinct that is easily manipulated. [ DANGER D T B ] =20 =20 Hypercommunication in the new millennium means something quite different: Researchers think that if humans with full individuality would regain group consciousness, they would have a god-like power to create, alter and shape things on Earth! AND humanity is collectively moving toward such a group consciousness of the new kind. Fifty percent of today=C3=AF=C2=BF=C2=BDs children will be problem children as so= on as the go to school. The system lumps everyone together and demands adjustment. But the individuality of today=C3=AF=C2=BF=C2=BDs children is s= o strong that that they refuse this adjustment and giving up their idiosyncrasies in the most diverse ways. =20 At the same time more and more clairvoyant children are born [see the book "CHINA=E2=80=99S INDIGO CHILDREN" by Paul Dong or the chapter about Indigos in my book "Nutze die taeglichen Wunder"(Make Use of the Daily Wonders)].=20 =20 Something in those children is striving more and more towards the group consciousness of the new kind, and it will no longer be suppressed!=20 =20 =20 WEATHER =20 As a rule WEATHER, for example, is rather difficult to influence by a single individual. But it may be influenced by a group consciousness (nothing new to some tribes doing it in their rain dances).=20 =20 Weather is strongly influenced by Earth resonance frequencies, the so-called Schumann frequencies. But those same frequencies are also produced in our brains, and when many people synchronize their thinking or individuals (spiritual masters, for instance) focus their thoughts in a laser-like fashion, then it is scientifically speaking not at all surprising if they can thus influence weather. =20 =20 Researchers in group consciousness have formulated the theory of Type I civilizations. A humanity that developed a group consciousness of the new kind would have neither environmental problems nor scarcity of energy. For if it were to use its mental power as a unified civilization, it would have control of the energies of its home planet as a natural consequence. And that includes all natural catastrophes!!!=20 =20 A theoretical Type II civilization would even be able to control all energies of their home galaxy. [ ? ] =20 In my book "Nutze die taeglichen Wunder" (Make Use of the Daily Wonders), I have described an example of this:=20 =20 Whenever a great many people focus their attention or consciousness on something similar like Christmas time, a football world championship or the funeral of Lady Diana in England then certain random number generators in computers start to deliver ordered numbers instead of the random ones. An ordered group consciousness creates order in its whole surroundings!!! =20 http://noosphere.princeton.edu/fristwall2.html=20 =20 When a great number of people get together very closely, potentials of violence also dissolve. It looks as if here, too, a kind of humanitarian consciousness of all humanity is created.=20 =20 At the Love Parade, for example, where every year about one million of youn= g people congregate, there has never been any brutal riots as they occur for instance at sports events. The name of the event alone is not seen as the cause here. The result of an analysis indicated rather that the number of people was TOO GREAT to allow a tipping over to violence. =20 To come back to the DNA: It apparently is also an organic superconductor that can work at normal body temperature. Artificial superconductors require extremely low temperatures of between 200 and 140 =E2=97=8B C to function. =20 =20 ENERGY =20 As one recently learned, all superconductors are able to store light and thus information. This is a further explanation of how the DNA can store information. There is another phenomenon linked to DNA and wormholes. Normally, these super small wormholes are highly unstable and are maintained only for the tiniest fractions of a second. Under certain conditions (read about it in the Fosar/Bludorf book above) stable wormholes can organize themselves which then form distinctive vacuum domains in which, for example, gravity can transform into electricity. Vacuum domains are self-radiant balls of ionized gas that contain considerable amounts of energy. =20 =20 U F O=E2=80=99s ? thought controlled ? =20 There are regions in Russia where such radiant balls appear very often. Following the ensuing confusion the Russians started massive research programs leading finally to some of the discoveries mentions above. Many people know vacuum domains as shiny balls in the sky. The attentive look at them in wonder and ask themselves, what they could be. I thought once: "Hello up there. If you happen to be a UFO, fly in a triangle." And suddenly, the light balls moved in a triangle. Or they shot across the sky like ice hockey pucks. They accelerated from zero to crazy speeds while sliding gently across the sky. =20 One is left gawking and I have, as many others, too, thought them to be UFOs. Friendly ones, apparently, as they flew in triangles just to please me. Now the Russians found in the regions where vacuum domains appear often they sometimes fly as balls of light from the ground upwards into the sky, that these balls can be guided by thought. One has found out since that vacuum domains emit waves of low frequency as they are also produced in our brains. And because of this similarity of waves they are able to react to our thoughts. =20 To run excitedly into one that is on ground level might not be such a great idea, because those balls of light can contain immense energies and are able to mutate our genes. They can, they don=E2=80=99t necessarily have to, one has to say.=20 =20 =20 AURA ? =20 For many spiritual teachers also produce such visible balls or columns of light in deep meditation or during energy work which trigger decidedly pleasant feelings and do not cause any harm. Apparently this is also dependent on some inner order and on the quality and provenance of the vacuum domain. =20 There are some spiritual teachers (the young Englishman Ananda, for example) with whom nothing is seen at first, but when one tries to take a photograph while they sit and speak or meditate in hypercommunication, one gets only a picture of a white cloud on a chair. In some Earth healing projects such light effects also appear on photographs. =20 =20 Simply put, these phenomena have to do with gravity and anti-gravity forces that are also exactly described in the book and with ever more stable wormholes and hyper-communication and thus with energies from outside our time and space structure. Earlier generations that got in contact with such hypercommunication experiences and visible vacuum domains were convinced that an angel had appeared before them. =20 And we cannot be too sure to what forms of consciousness we can get access when using hypercommunication. Not having scientific proof for their actual existence (people having had such experiences do NOT all suffer from hallucinations) does not mean that there is no metaphysical background to it. We have simply made another giant step towards understanding our reality. =20 =20 Official science also knows of gravity anomalies on Earth (that contribute to the formation of vacuum domains), but only of ones of below one percent. But recently gravity anomalies have been found of between three and four percent. One of these places is Rocca di Papa, south of Rome (exact location in the book "Vernetzte Intelligenz" plus several others). Round objects of all kinds, from balls to full buses, roll uphill. But the stretch in Rocca di Papa is rather short, and defying logic sceptics still flee to the theory of optical illusion (which it cannot be due to several features of the location). =20 All informations are from the book "Vernetzte Intelligenz" von Grazyna Fosar und Franz Bludorf, ISBN 3930243237, summarized and commented by Baerbel. The book is unfortunately only available in German so far. You can reach the authors here: =20 [ www.fosar-bludorf.com ] [2]; Transmitted by Vitae Bergman [ www.ryze.com/view.php?who=3Dvitaeb ] [3] =3D=3D=3DReferences:=3D=3D=3D 1. http://noosphere.princeton.edu/fristwall2.html 2. http://www.fosar-bludorf.com 3. http://www.ryze.com/view.php?who=3Dvitaeb [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ringding@online.de Tue Jan 24 12:45:35 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49975 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2006 20:45:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2006 20:45:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.183) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2006 20:45:35 -0000 Received: from [84.191.155.240] (helo=captainde01992) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu6) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0ML29c-1F1UpA0KAk-0004LH; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 21:31:32 +0100 Message-ID: <008a01c62125$33487150$3d5afea9@captainde01992> To: References: <02dc01c6211f$124e4520$0a0110ac@DALLAS> Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 21:31:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:d066391b47e67c594ae06bf3d758d7eb X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.183 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World RE: DNA Can Be Influenced And Reprogrammed By Words And Frequencies Russian DNA Discoveries X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=224426186; y=vXGqDMNCii2UER-HceiUb6_v3TchVOb7Sw8QUI4rxw8oJT4nbDc9AUCshg X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer >If the facts are true what “missing links” are >bridged? The translators Grazyna Fosar and Franz Bludorf are living in Berlin, Germany, and are well known authors here on cover up and conspiracy stories as Chemtrails, the Haarp project etc. Generally they seem to have top level background information. I heard from Russian sources that their experiments with frequencies and the manipulation of weather and man is far progressed. It is to be regretted, that those aunts which are sitting for tea talks and claim to be "Theosophists" are in no way interested in any "modern" information which appeared after WW II and that examination and research of interesting topics like this is left over to such snoopy authors. Frank From ringding@online.de Tue Jan 24 13:08:11 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49880 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2006 21:08:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2006 21:08:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.187) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2006 21:08:10 -0000 Received: from [84.191.155.240] (helo=captainde01992) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu6) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0ML29c-1F1VJi3P2n-0004KT; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 22:03:07 +0100 Message-ID: <00af01c62129$9dfbabd0$3d5afea9@captainde01992> To: References: Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 22:03:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:d066391b47e67c594ae06bf3d758d7eb X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.187 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World "... our principal sources of knowledge about Jesus...." X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=224426186; y=qxSS_H0Lko7-L7s_ei7tedyGlwfWzUX7wsNtmxgw_gi1-FrYuSzYhSu1OA X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer The Gospels tells us that they are merely a Gematria Greek translation of the Buddhist Sanskrit Parinirvana Sutra and that Christianity is nothing else than a version of Buddhism. The German pro Christian author Richard Garbe, whose motive it was, to show that Buddhism is but a rehash of Christianity, was forced by the facts, to admit the contrary in his book: Indien und das Christentum (India and Christianity), Tuebingen 1914. Danish Prof. Christian Lindtner recently confirmed Garbe and shows good examples of the Gematria translation of the Septuagint scholars. Lindtner uses also theosophical sources, such as The Adyar Library Bulletins vol. 64 (2000), pp.151-170 (Amrapali in the Gospels), vol. 66 (2002), pp. 184-190 (life and doctrine of Jesus and Buddha in comparison (my re-transl.). For truth seekers it may be of interest that Prof. Lindtner attacks many legends which run as history, although the topics are tabooed, like the Holocaust, of which he takes the revisionist side. Consequently - it seems he has the true Buddha and the true HPB spirit, the Aryan spirit - he published f.e. his article "A New Buddhist-Christian Parable" in "The Revisionist", vol. 2/1 (2004), pp. 12-24. In case of the kabalistic method of hiding a second, deeper meaning within a text, Prof. Lindtner refers to "Gematria in the Gospels", in: Acta Orientalia, vol. 64 (2003), pp. 7-37 and in: Research Bulletin. Vishvesharannd Vedic Research Institute, vol. 2 (2003), pp. 113-143. At least in Germany the theosophical sects refuse to take note of this important German research of 1914 (there were many more researches in that direction, esp. in the 1930'ies, extreme valuable information for Theosophists and truth seekers in general, but they still need to be re-discovered and identified). Indeed, research is a hard job. It is much easier, to sit on the sofa and utter loud claims about the own high occult status, than to go to the library and make a search! Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: "danielhcaldwell" To: Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 9:32 AM Subject: Theos-World "... our principal sources of knowledge about Jesus...." "... the four New Testament Gospels ... are our principal sources of knowledge about Jesus...." "....their authors do not claim to have been eyewitnesses to the events they narrate." "Instead, they are writing several decades later, telling stories that they have heard - stories that have been in circulation for decades among the followers of Jesus." "The first step, then, is to determine what kinds of books the Gospels are and to ascertain how reliable their information about Jesus is." "The question will be: Apart from their value as religious documents of faith, what do the Gospels tell historians?" From leonmaurer@aol.com Tue Jan 24 18:06:34 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: LeonMaurer@aol.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1405 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2006 02:06:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jan 2006 02:06:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d23.mx.aol.com) (205.188.139.137) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2006 02:06:33 -0000 Received: from LeonMaurer@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.26b.4938872 (3850) for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 21:06:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <26b.4938872.3108371f@aol.com> Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 21:06:23 EST To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Thunderbird - Mac OS X sub 310 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.139.137 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: leonmaurer@aol.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: [Mind and Brain] meaning and information X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=4099972; y=23vF1DvO5uWNYQpwaZG4ItJQ__hADIrmooPv8wI0Nv6RHV4a-zg X-Yahoo-Profile: leonmaurer1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Cass, I suppose the answer to all our questions falls back on the theosophical=20 teaching that consciousness or spirit is a fundamental nature of the univer= se, and=20 that every sentient organic or living form has some degree of experiential= =20 consciousness. Although the less organized life forms, which would include = the=20 developing fetus before the full development of its brain-neural system, co= uld=20 experience and respond to such consciousness only instinctively -- but not= =20 thoughtfully or mindfully -- as HPB implied in your earlier quote from Isis= .=20=20=20 The fetus, then, since it does not connect with the lower or higher mind=20 fields before it had developed an independent existence that has a fully de= veloped=20 brain, apparently cannot "think," but can only respond reflexively to=20 external or internal (such as dream) stimuli. If I remember correctly, HP= B teaches=20 that the human being normally does not connect fully with its higher ration= al=20 mind until it is at least 3-1/2 to 7 years old. Thus it's consciousness=20 before that time would be of a very primitive nature, and at the fetal stag= e would=20 not be expressed at all (in thoughts as we experience them) except as=20 fleeting momentary sensations that are responded to instinctively or reflex= ively.=20=20=20 However, it seems obvious that the reincarnating soul is linked to the=20 developing fetus right from the zygote, and simply waiting on the sidelines= so to=20 speak, until the growing body has a fully developed brain-mind that is read= y to=20 receive and recognize its individuality or self consciousness. But, befor= e=20 then, the higher mind is not developed enough to accomplish that until the = baby=20 is long out of the womb, and has had enough time to get used to its newly=20 awakened external senses, learn to control them, and ultimately, when the b= rain=20 has matured sufficiently, link them to its rational mind and recognize its= =20 apparent separation (physically, that is) from the people and things around= it.=20 (Of course, it takes some additional theosophical wisdom to recognize that= =20 illusory condition of separateness for what it really is. :-)=20 Sure, we cannot "prove" those ideas of fetal consciousness or its soul=20 connection by conventional scientific or objective means. But, we can ass= ume that=20 the adept Masters who teach us all, and who are capable of experiencing tho= se=20 states directly in deep meditation and comparing them with the identical=20 experiences of many other adepts, can give us all the "proof" we need. Is= n't that=20 the way all theosophical teachings have come down to us through the ages? = =20 All we have to do to fully understand the truth of such teaching and gain o= ur=20 own proof and conviction, is through practice of that same deep meditation = that=20 will allow us to experience such primitive consciousness for ourselves.=20 For example, Vipassana meditation, used for self healing by getting in touc= h=20 with the instinctive and reflexive consciousness of our cells and organs an= d=20 learning how to "speak" to and guide them using our psychic powers of menta= l=20 thought form visualization and will, is one method to gain such experientia= l=20 proof. (This, however, takes long practice and guidance by an adept teach= er.) I don't know about "consciousness preceding intelligence"... Although if we= =20 consider intelligence as knowledge, that could be the case... Simply becaus= e=20 one can't learn anything unless one is conscious of what's being taught. = =20 However, if we consider intelligence as inherent wisdom, I would assume tha= t, in=20 the case of the unborn universe or a reincarnated genius or prodigy, both=20 perceptive consciousness and intelligence are dependently arisen simultaneo= usly at=20 birth. Yet, with respect to a fetus, we could also say that the primitive= =20 instinctual consciousness was there from its conception long before its lat= er=20 developing psychic or mental nature could allow it to have access to that=20 intelligence. So, the answer to your query depends on how we define intel= ligence=20 and in what context it's meaning is applied. Hope this is useful. Len In a message dated 1/23/06 7:13:54 PM, silva_cass@yahoo.com writes: > Hi Leon, > I will need to spend a few days digesting all that you have said.=A0 My n= eural=20 > connections seem to require this time frame, however my first reaction to= =20 > your statement >=20 > "Or that the lower mental field of the developing fetus can receive impul= ses=20 > transmitted to it from the conscious and unconscious thoughts of its=20 > mother.=A0=A0 This could correspond to the reported response of a plant t= o the loving or=20 > hateful thoughts directed to it." >=20 > Cass: Doesn't this suggest that some sort of consciousness precedes brain= =20 > function?=A0 All of the bodies, higher mental, lower mental, astral, and= =20 > etheric=A0=A0 are waiting on the threshold to animate the foetus. Perhaps= as you say,=20 > the foetus, dreams because of its formed astral body, perhaps also it is = able=20 > to think, prior to the formation of the brain, because of its lower/highe= r=20 > mental body. > "The soul, says Porphyry, having even after death a certain affection for= =20 > its body, an affinity proportioned to the violence with which their union= was=20 > broken". IU > Cass: Perhaps the soul has an affinity for its physical form in the womb?= =A0=20 > Unfortunately if this is the case it can never be proven at a scientific= =20 > level. >=20 > I read in Isis or SD that consciousness precedes intelligence, will need = to=20 > do a bit of research today. >=20 > Cass >=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Thu Jan 26 04:49:39 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 86890 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2006 12:49:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jan 2006 12:49:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.70) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jan 2006 12:49:34 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.217] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1F26QE-0007tl-W7; Thu, 26 Jan 2006 07:40:21 -0500 To: "'Peter Bernin'" Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 04:40:00 -0800 Message-ID: <030301c62275$a34f2970$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <20060125203637.WPKZ2008.mxfep02.bredband.com@budha> X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79fc9263324d2568a37a62bc091d1c35a5350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: Holoweys... X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=bPgQk3T2sQSUPe6RFCqKM6PHLF4ynWzOS2adhZjLtabpcw X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 1/25/2006 5:07 PM =20 Dear Peter =20 Re: =93underground Holoweys (place of religious meeting)=94 [= HPB Art III, p. 282] =20 I am sorry but I have no idea or other reference on this.=20=20 =20 I however read the FOOTNOTE : =20 =93The strictest secrecy as to the nature of their beliefs, the peculiar ri= tes practised in their subterranean Holoweys, and the contents of their canonical books was enjoined upon their followers by H'amsa and Boha-eddin, the chief and first disciple of the former.=94 [HPB III p.282] =20 =20 It is probably their name in their language for a kind of underground caver= n or crypt.=20 =20 In the article, HPB Art III, p. 287 (top) I find it written: =20 =93No more than the Druses do the Lamaists seek to make proselytes. Both people have their "schools of magic"-- those in Tibet being attached to som= e la-khang (lamaseries), and those among the Druses in the closely-guarded crypts of initiation, no stranger being even allowed inside the buildings. = =93 HPB Art III, p. 287 (top)=20 =20 =93=85the visible place of worship, which is merely a large, unfurnished ro= om, [they] are also the guardians of the Mystical Temple, and the "wise men," o= r the initiates of their mysteries, as their name of Okhal implies: Akl being in Arabic "intelligence" or "wisdom." [ 283 ] =20 This implies to me that HPB knew their secrets and was familiar with all these and others of the mystical brotherhoods around the world. =20 Some rederences: On Druzes: see =20 In ISIS UNVEILED see II pp. 292, 306-15; MAHATMA LETTERS 116; MODERN PANARION, pp. 375-9; THEOSOPHY Vol. 6, p. 66; V. 14, p. 516; V. 15, p. 15; V. 26, p. 8; Druses, seven mandragoras of SECRET DOCTRINE II 27;=20=20 =20 SECRET DOCTRINE=20 =20 Cave(s). See also Cave-Temples, Initiations Bamian II 338=20 of Dordogne II 522=20 -dwellers I 208n, 280=20 Gimil's, (Norse) II 100=20 gupta, near Okhee Math I xxx=20 of initiate-hermits II 381, 501=20 initiation- I xx; II 181n, 237n, 541, 558=20 libraries I xxiv, xxxiv=20 Moses initiated at Hor-eb II 541=20 Neolithic II 352=20 of rishis II 381=20 seven, of Nahuatl II 35 &n=20 Zoroastrian I 126 Cave-Temple(s) decad in Hindu I 321=20 Fergusson dates, wrongly II 220n=20 perfection of, (Kenealy) I 208-9n=20 subterranean passages of II 221 Cedars of Lebanon, initiates & kings called II 494 Temple(s). See also Initiations, Pyramids, Temple of Solomon body of man is a I 212, 327, 574n; II 470, 651=20 bulls in old Hindu II 418n=20 curtains in ancient I 125, 462; II 459=20 Dracontian, grandeur of II 380=20 gods are, of God I 578=20 -libraries II 529=20 planetary, in Babylon II 456=20 rock-cut, of India I 126=20 sacred to Sun, dragon II 378-9=20 in universe & in us II 651=20 Vitruvius gives rules for Greek I 209n Dragon(s) of Wisdom II 22, 377 adepts & initiates II 203, 210, 353=20 blazing, or Logos I 71-2=20 crocodile is really a I 219=20 fallen angels are II 230=20 fiery serpents are not II 212=20 four hidden, or four quarters I 408-9=20 is the One, or Eka (Saka) I 73=20 Kwan-shi-yin or I 470, 472=20 of Revelation 12 II 384n=20 Satan has become II 234, 507=20 Sun-god or II 507 =20 Dracon, Drakon (Gk). See also Draco, Dragons Greek for dragon II 210=20 synonym for "evil one" II 206n =20 Dracontia ancient divining rocks II 346=20 not works of nature II 347=20 once covered the globe II 380, 756=20 plans of, destroyed by bishops II 347=20 prove ancient doctrines II 756=20 serpents, builders, architects & II 380 Draco Volans (Lat) flying dragon, based on actual creature II 387 Dragon(s) II 201, 209-19, 377-90, 400. See also Adepts, Initiates, Nagas, Serpents adepts, initiates I 404, 408-9; II 94n, 210, 212, 215, 280n, 353, 355, 501, 504=20 angels w, bodies II 26=20 of Apocalypse II 31-2n=20 Apophis I 459=20 Assyrian, "scaly one" II 354=20 Bel &, w Ophites II 379, 503=20 black storm- II 425=20 in books of Hermes II 25=20 born of fire & water I 470=20 breaking heads of II 505=20 Central Asia inhabited by II 203=20 Chaldean, male principle II 104=20 Chinese I 408; II 26-7, 203, 205-6, 209-10, 280n, 364-5=20 constellations of the I 408, 657; II 352-3=20 cosmic, of Kasyapa-Aditya II 382n=20 cosmological interpretation of II 386=20 crocodile (Egyptian) I 219=20 Danavas, Titans, or II 381=20 of Darkness, Light I 412=20 of the Deep II 53, 61, 183, 477, 503-5=20 devil or I 194; II 98, 506=20 double II 57=20 evil, doesn't exist II 53, 505=20 Fall & II 104=20 fallen angel, now symbol of II 506=20 fiery, of wisdom II 212=20 first disciples of dhyanis II 210=20 flying II 206 &n, 207n, 387, 486, 516=20 four hidden, of wisdom I 409=20 four-mouthed II 204=20 glyph for astral light I 73=20 of Gnostics, Ophites II 386-7=20 golden, or Kwan-shi-yin I 452=20 of good II 25-6=20 Great, (Draco) II 32n, 353, 355=20 Great or Old, is Deluge II 351-3=20 guard Trees of Knowledge I 128-9n=20 highest, lowest meanings of II 355=20 Hindu-Buddhist I 407=20 Jehovah as, tempted Eve I 73=20 Makara, crocodile, or II 354=20 mid-Atlanteans called II 756=20 Nidhogg (Norse) I 211=20 Phaeton awakened polar II 770n=20 polar I 407; II 274, 770n, 771n, 786=20 prove antiquity of man II 208=20 Python is Greek demon II 383, 771n=20 Raphael or I 127n; II 115n=20 red II 93-4, 379, 513, 771n=20 reports of seeing, killing II 207=20 of Revelation I 194, 407; II 93n, 354-5 &n, 383-5, 484-5, 497, 506, 771n=20 sacred nature of, (Aelianus) II 355=20 St John's, & Atlantean magic II 356=20 St Michael mastered II 94n, 378=20 secret of, given to initiates II 504=20 septenary meaning I 407-8; II 208, 355=20 serpents & II 204-10, 354-6=20 sidereal, ever divine I 407=20 Sigurd ate heart of I 404=20 -slayers II 212, 380, 384-5=20 stories of II 206-7=20 symbolic & actual II 217-18=20 symbol Moon's ascending & descending nodes I 403=20 symbol of Sun II 380=20 symbol of wisdom I 657; II 26, 210=20 Tahmurath kills II 397=20 tail of, & Rahu II 381=20 temples sacred to II 380=20 third race instructors, adepts II 210=20 Tiamat or II 384, 503=20 various names for II 354-6, 379-80, 485-6=20 Virgin or Madonna crushes I 403=20 waters of flood & Great I 460=20 winged, of Medea (Levi) I 253n=20 Yellow II 365 =20 Initiate(s, ed). See also Adepts, Brotherhood, Dragons,=20 Mahatmas, Masters, Seers, Serpents of Wisdom, Twice-Born Aeschylus an II 419 &n, 524=20 angirasas instructors of II 605n=20 ape's origin known to I 190=20 arhan not highest I 206=20 Aristotle not an I 493=20 arts & sciences preserved by II 572=20 Aryan, built menhirs, zodiacs II 750, 754=20 Aryan, knew whole cosmogony II 500=20 ashes of, kept seven lunar years II 588n=20 Atlantean, taught Cyclopes I 208n=20 called little ones II 504 &n=20 cannot divulge all he knows II 760=20 can trace soul's history I 381 &n=20 Christian II 60=20 chronology of Brahmin II 49=20 -commentator would not explain II 637n=20 connected w Sun, wisdom II 210n=20 crucified on Tree of Life II 560=20 cycles known to II 70=20 darkness is absolute light to I 41=20 decipher myths II 138-9, 764-5=20 descent into Hades, etc II 558=20 dhyan-chohans more powerful I 234-5=20 "dragons," "serpents," refer to I 408; II 94n, 203, 210n, 213, 280n, 501, 572=20 early Greek sages were I 117=20 Egyptian, went to England by land II 750=20 Enoch an II 506=20 Father & Son, knew meaning of II 231n=20 feud betw, of left- & right-path II 494, 501=20 few, master all seven keys II 584=20 five becomes seven at death of II 580=20 fourth race, in Central Asia II 339=20 of Garden of Eden II 494=20 Gnostic sects founded by II 389=20 great, fr Advaita School I 522=20 -hermits lived in caves II 501=20 Hesiod's Theogony history to II 765=20 highest, known to few adepts I 611-12=20 history of races known to II 133, 437-8=20 Hungarian, taught Olcott I xix=20 idolatry, sought to stem II 492=20 inflectional speech language of II 200=20 Jesus an I 577-8, 653; II 504, 566=20 Julian an II 587n=20 Kapila, of kali-yuga II 572=20 knowledge gained by generations of II 700=20 know racial figures II 312=20 language of, plain II 786-7=20 live in every age I xlv=20 lives in his astral body II 499=20 magi of Persia, Chaldea were II 395=20 Marcus an II 563=20 meaning of Vedas, Puranas, know I 520=20 Moses an I 73, 314, 316, 352; II 212, 456, 465n, 541n=20 Mysteries inherited by II 125=20 nagas or I 408; II 572=20 names given to II 210n, 215=20 Nazarenes, among II 96n=20 not influenced by genii I 295 &n=20 Paul an I 8-9, 240; II 268, 504, 513n, 704=20 perfected faultless system II 133=20 Plato an II 88, 266, 395, 554=20 popes, some early, were I 311=20 priest-, knew the noumena II 517-18=20 priests read Dracontia II 346=20 produced rarely fr age to age I 211=20 profane &, will remain I 207=20 prophets or II 492=20 Puranas, hold key to I 423=20 pyramids & II 353, 558=20 Pythagoreans were II 153=20 Ragon a European I xxxvi=20 rakshasas are II 165n=20 reborn after crucifixion II 560=20 records of, fr beginning of fourth race I 646=20 ring pass not & I 131=20 rising Sun & II 558, 559=20 ruled early fifth races II 364=20 rule the gods (devas) II 111=20 Russian mystics, in Central Asia I xxxvi=20 Sankaracharya greatest I 271-2=20 saved w secret teachings II 230=20 secret records of I xxxiv=20 see beneath maya I 45=20 Senzar once known to all I xliii=20 serpents & II 26n=20 seven number of II 35=20 soma given only to II 498=20 spiritual overcomes physical w II 499=20 swastika over hearts of II 586=20 symbolism, knowledge of II 439, 796=20 taught evolution of atoms I 522=20 three-day trance of II 580=20 tomb of an, at Sais II 396=20 trials of, symbol for II 505=20 twice-born II 70, 111=20 veil information re early races II 715n=20 war betw, & sorcerers I 419=20 will judge angels II 112=20 wisdom of early Hebrew I 352=20 withhold knowledge II 518 Initiation(s) Aryan & Jewish II 469-70=20 astrology one of secrets of II 500n=20 awakens inner sight II 294n=20 Book of Enoch record of II 229, 535=20 Buddha overshadows highest I 109=20 buddhas meet adepts in I 574=20 candidate & dragon fight in II 381=20 Christians eliminated memory of I xl=20 circle squared at supreme II 450=20 cycle of, & sidereal year I 314=20 discussed [Lucifer] II 558-9=20 Egyptian, & Fall (Lacour) II 215-16n=20 facing one's Augoeides in final I 573=20 fourth race temples of II 211=20 fourth race wisdom only thru II 134=20 Greek writers gave truths of I 507=20 Julian re II 35=20 light of, & Fire Self II 570=20 manus, sishtas & third degree of II 308=20 mastery of cycles thru I 642=20 performed in Great Pyramid I 314, 317-18n; II 461-2, 558=20 Phenoch or Enoch symbol of II 617=20 into pre-Adamic Mysteries II 452-3=20 precede secret teachings I 164=20 psychic, spiritual elements & I 229=20 religious history related in I 307=20 sacred numbers known thru I 66-7=20 Secret Doctrine taught to Egyptians at II 137=20 secret II 378-80=20 secrets of higher II 51=20 septenary division taught in I 168=20 serpent & tree symbolize II 354-5=20 sevenfold mystery of, & lyre II 529=20 seven forms of, (Anugita) II 638=20 seven grades of I 206=20 tau cross, crucifix & II 542-3, 557, 586n=20 truth preserved thru I xxxvi=20 Upanishads prepared chelas for I 270=20 wand of candidate for II 518=20 water, fire in II 566n Initiator(s) Builders or II 345n=20 first, into Mysteries II 267n=20 "Great Sacrifice" called the I 208=20 Hanoch, Enoch, Enos & II 529n=20 high, creates bodhisattva I 109=20 Wondrous Being or I 207-12 ------------------------------------------------------------------ (courtesy of THEOSOPHICAL UNIVERSITY PRESS. Pasadena) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 Best wishes, =20 Dallas =20 Here is the article with some underlined passages that appear important to me: =20 ------------------------------------------------- >From HPB Art III p. 281 =20 LAMAS AND DRUSES =20 MR. L. OLIPHANT'S new work "Land of Gilead" attracts considerable attention= . Reviews appeared some time since, but we had to lay the subject aside until now for lack of space. We will now have something to say, not of the work itself--though justice can hardly be sufficiently done to the writings of that clever author--but of what he tells us respecting the Druses--those mystics of Mount Lebanon of whom so little is known. We may, perchance, she= d some new light on the subject. "The Druse," Mr. Oliphant thinks, "has a firm conviction that the end of th= e world is at hand. Recent events have so far tallied with the enigmatical prophecies of his sacred books, that he looks forward to the speedy resurrection of El Hakim, the founder and divine personage of the sect. In order to comprehend this, the connection between China and Druse theology has to be remembered. The souls of all pious Druses are supposed to be occupying in large numbers certain cities in the west of China. The end of the world will be signalised by the approach of a mighty army from the East against the contending powers of Islam and Christianity. This army will be under the command of the Universal Mind, and will consist of millions of Chinese Unitarians. To it Christians and Mahomedans will surrender and marc= h before it to Mecca. El Hakim will then appear; at his command, the Caaba will be demolished by fire from Heaven, and the resurrection of the dead will take place. Now that Russia has come into collision with China, the Druses see the fulfilment of their sacred prophecies, and are eagerly waiting for an Armageddon in which they believe themselves destined to play a prominent part."--(Pioneer.)=20 Mr. Lawrence Oliphant is, in our opinion, one of England's pest writers. He is also more deeply acquainted with the inner life of the East than most of the authors and travellers who have written upon the subject--not even excepting Captain and Mrs. Burton. But even his acute and observing intellect could hardly fathom the secret of the profoundly mystical beliefs of the Druses.=20 =20 To begin with: El Hakim is not the founder of their sect. Their ritual and dogmas were never made known, but to those who have been admitted into thei= r brotherhood. Their origin is next to unknown.=20 As to their external religion, or what has rather transpired of it, that ca= n be told in a few words. The Druses are believed to be a mixture of Kurds, Mardi-Arabs, and other semi-civilized tribes. We humbly maintain that they are the descendants of, and a mixture of, mystics of all nations--mystics, who, in the face of cruel and unrelenting persecution by the orthodox Christian Church and orthodox Islamism, have ever since the first centuries of the Mahomedan propaganda, been gathered together, and who gradually made a permanent settlement in the fastnesses of Syria and Mount Lebanon, where they had from the first found refuge.=20 Since then, they have preserved the strictest silence upon their beliefs an= d truly occult rites. Later on, their warlike character, great bravery, and unity of purpose which made their foes, whether Mussulmans or Christians, equally fear them, helped them toward forming an independent community, or, as we may term it, an imperium in imperio.=20 They are the Sikhs of Asia Minor, and their polity offers many points of similarity with the late "commonwealth" of the followers of Guru Nanak--eve= n extending to their mysticism and indomitable bravery.=20 But the two are still more closely related to a third and still more mysterious community of religionists, of which nothing, or next to nothing, is known by outsiders: we mean that fraternity of Tibetan Lamaists, known a= s the Brotherhood of Khe-lang, who mix but little with the rest. Even Cosmo d= e Koros, who passed several years with the Lamas learned hardly more of the religion of these Chakravartins (wheel-turners) than what they chose to let him know of their exoteric rites; and of the Khe-langs, he learned positively nothing. The mystery that hangs over the scriptures and religion of the Druses is fa= r more impenetrable than that connected with the Amritsar and Lahore "Disciples,"[Sikhs] whose grantha is well known, and has been translated into European languages more than once.=20 Of the alleged forty-five sacred books1 of the Lebanon mystics, none were ever seen, let alone examined, by any European scholar. Many manuscripts have never left the underground Holoweys (place of religious meeting) invariably built under the meeting-room on the ground-floor, and the public Thursday assemblies of the Druses are simply blinds intended for over-curious travellers and neighbours. Verily a strange sect are the "Disciples of H'amsa," as they call themselves. Their Okhal or spiritual teachers besides having, like the Sikh Akali, the duty of defending the visible place of worship, which is merely = a large, unfurnished room, are also the guardians of the Mystical Temple, and the "wise men," or the initiates of their mysteries, as their name of Okhal implies: Akl being in Arabic "intelligence" or "wisdom." It is improper to call them Druses, as they regard it as an insult; nor are they in reality the followers of Daruzi, a heretical pupil of H'amsa, but the true disciple= s of the latter.=20 The origin of that personage who appeared among them in the eleventh century, coming from Central Asia, and whose secret or "mystery" name is "El-Hamma," is quite unknown to our European scholars. His spiritual titles are "Universal Source, or Mind," "Ocean of Light," and "Absolute or Divine Intelligence."=20 They are, in short. repetitions of those of the Tibetan Dalai-Lama, whose appellation "Path to the Ocean,"2 means, Path or "Way to the Ocean of Light" (Intelligence) or Divine Wisdom--both titles being identically the same. It is curious that the Hebrew word Lamad should also mean "the God-taught." An English Orientalist recently found that the religion of Nanak had a good deal of Buddhism in it. (Art. Diwali in Calcutta Review.) This would be onl= y natural since the Empire of Hindustan is the land of Buddhas and Boddhisattvas. But that the religion of the Druses, between whose geographical and ethnological position and that of the Hindus there is an abyss, should be so, is far more incomprehensible and strange. Yet it is a fact. They are more Lamaists in their beliefs and certain rites, than any other people upon the face of the globe.=20 The fact may be contradicted, but it will be only because Europe knows next to nothing of either. Their system of government is set down as feudal and Satriarchal, while it is as theocratic as that of the Lamaists--or as that of the Sikhs--as it used to be. The mysterious representation of the Deity appears in H'amsa, whose spirit is said to guide them, and periodically re-incarnate itself in the person of the chief Okhal of the Druses, as it does in the Guru-Kings of the Sikhs, some of whom, like Guru Govind, claime= d to be the re-incarnations of Nanak, while the Dalai-Lamas of Tibet claim to be those of Buddha. The latter, by the way, are loosely called Shaberons an= d Khubilghans (both in various degrees re-incarnations not of Buddha, the MAN= , but of his Buddh-like divine spirit) by Abbe Huc and others without any regard to the difference in the appellation: El Hamma or H'amsa came from the "Land of the Word of God." Where was that land?=20 Swedenborg, the Northern seer, advised his followers to search for the LOST WORD, among the hierophants of Tartary, Tibet and China.=20 To this we may add a few explanatory and corroborative facts. Ll'hassa, the theocratic metropolis of Tibet, is commonly translated as "God-land," that is to say, this is the only English equivalent that we can find.3 =20=20 Though separated by the Karakonum range and little Tibet, the great Tibet i= s on the same Asiatic plateau in which our Biblical scholars designate the table-land of Pamir4 as th= e cradle of the human race, the birth-place of the mythical Adam.=20 Tibet or Ti-Boutta, will yield, etymologically, the words Ti, which is the equivalent for God in Chinese, and Buddha, or wisdom: the land, then, of th= e Wisdom-Deity, or of the incarnations of Wisdom. It is also called "Bod-Jid.= " Now "Jid" and "Jod" are synonymous apocalyptic and phallic names for the Deity--YOD being the Hebrew name for God. G. Higgins shows in his Celtic Druids, the Welsh Druids altering the name of Bod-Jid into Buddud which wit= h them too meant the "Wisdom of Jid" or what people now call "god."5 =20 The religion of the Druses is said to be a compound of Judaism, Mahomedanis= m and Christianity, strongly tinged with Gnosticism and the Magian system of Persia. Were people to call things by their right names, sacrificing all self-conceit to truth, they might confess things otherwise. They could say, for instance, that Mahomedanism being a compound of Chaldeism, Christianity and Judaism; Christianity, a mixture of Judaism, Gnosticism and Paganism; and Judaism, a wholesale Egypto-Chaldean Kabalism, masquerading under invented names and fables, made to fit the bits and scraps of the real history of the Israelite tribes--the religious system of the Druses would then be found one of the last survivals of the archaic Wisdom-Religion.=20 It is entirely based on that element of practical mysticism of which branches have from time to time sprung into existence. They pass under the unpopular names of Kabalism, Theosophy and Occultism. Except Christianity which, owing to the importance it gives to the principal prop of its doctrine of Salvation--(we mean the dogma of Satan) had to anathematize the practice of theurgy--every religion, including Judaism and Mahomedanism, credits these above-named branches.=20 Civilisation having touched with its materialistic all-levelling, and all-destroying hand even India and Turkey, amid the din and chaos of crumbling faiths and old sciences, the reminiscence of archaic truths is no= w fast dying out. It has become popular and fashionable to denounce "the old and mouldy superstitions of our forefathers";--verily even among the most natural allies of the students of theurgy or occultism--the Spiritualists.= =20 Among the many creeds and faiths striving to follow the cyclic tide, and helping it themselves to sweep away the knowledge of old, strangely blind t= o the fact, that the same powerful wave of materialism and modern science als= o sweeps away their own foundations--the only religions which have remained a= s alive as ever to these forgotten truths of old, are those which from the first have kept strictly aloof from the rest.=20 The Druses, while outwardly mixing up with Moslems and Christians alike, ever ready to read the Kuran as well as the Gospels in their Thursday publi= c meetings, have never allowed an uninitiated stranger to penetrate the mysteries of their own doctrines.=20 Intelligence6 alone communicates to the soul (which with them is mortal, though it survives the body) the enlivening and divine spark of the Supreme Wisdom or Ti-meami--they say--but it must be screened from all nonbelievers in H'amsa= . The work of the soul is to seek wisdom, and the substance of earthly wisdom is to know Universal Wisdom, or "God," as other religionists call that principle. This is the doctrine of the Buddhists and Lamaists who say "Buddha" where the Druses say "Wisdom"--one word being the translation of the other.=20 "In spite of their external adoption of the religious customs of the Moslems, of their readiness to educate their children in Christian schools, their use of the Arabic language, and of their free intercourse with strangers, the Druses remain even more than the Jews a peculiar people"--says a writer. They are very rarely if ever converted; they marry within their own race; and adhere most tenaciously to their traditions, baffling all efforts to discover their cherished secrets. Yet they are neither fanatical, nor do they covet proselytes. In his Journey through Tartary, Tibet, and China, Huc speaks with great surprise of the extreme tolerance and even outward respect shown by the Tibetans to other religions.=20 A grand Lama, or a "living Buddha," as he calls him, whom the two missionaries met at Choang-Long, near Koum-boum certainly had the best of them in good breeding as well as tact and deference to their feelings. The two Frenchmen, however, neither understood nor appreciated the act, since they seemed quite proud of the insult offered by them to the Hobilgan. "We were waiting for him . . . seated on the kang . . . and purposely did not rise to receive him, but merely made him a slight salutation"-- boasts Huc (vol. ii. p. 35-36). The Grand Lama "did not appear disconcerted" though; upon seeing that they as "purposely" withheld from him "an invitation to si= t down" he only looked at them "surprised," as well he might. A breviary of theirs having attracted his attention, he demanded "permission to examine it"; and then, carrying it "solemnly to his brow" he said: "It is your book of prayer; we must always honour and reverence other people's prayers."=20 It was a good lesson, yet they understood it not. We would like to see that Christian missionary who would reverently carry to his brow the Vedas, the Tripitaka, or the Grantha, and publicly honour other people's prayers! Whil= e the Tibetan "savage," the heathen Hobilgan, was all affability and politeness, the two French "Lamas of Jehovah" as Abbe Huc called his companion and himself, behaved like two uneducated bullies. And to think that they even boast of it in print! No more than the Druses do the Lamaists seek to make proselytes. Both peopl= e have their "schools of magic"--those in Tibet being attached to some la-khang (lamaseries), and those among he Druses in the closely-guarded crypts of initiation, no stranger being even allowed inside the buildings.= =20 As the Tibetan Hobilgans are the incarnations of Buddha's spirit, so the Druse Okhals--erroneously called "Spiritualists" by some writers--are the incarnations of H'amsa. Both peoples have a regular system of passwords and signs of recognition among the neophytes, and we know them to be nearly identical since they are partially those of he Theosophists. In the mystical system of the Druses there are five "messengers" or interpreters of the "Word of the Supreme Wisdom," who occupy he same position as the five chief Boddhisattvas, or Hobilgans of Tibet, each of whom is the bodily temple of the spirit of one of the five Buddhas. Let us see what can be made known of both classes.=91 =20 DRUZE HIERARCHY The names of the five principal Druse "messengers," or rather their titles--as these names are generic, in both the Druse and Tibetan hierarchies, and the title passes at the death of each to his successor--are: (1)7 H'amsa, or "El Hamma,= " (spiritual wisdom) considered as the Messiah, through whom speaks Incarnate Wisdom. (2) Ismail--Ti-meami--(the universal soul). He prepares the Druses before their initiation to receive "wisdom." (3) Mohammed--(the Word). His duty is to watch over the behaviour and necessities of the brethren;--a kind of Bishop. (4) Se-lama, (the "Preceding") called the "Right Wing." (5) Mokshatana Boha-eddin, (the "Following") named the "Left Wing." These last are both messengers between H'amsa and the Brotherhood.=20 Above these living mediators who remain ever unknown to all but the chief Okhals stand the ten Incarnates of the "Supreme Wisdom," the last of whom i= s to return at the end of the cycle, which is fast approaching--though no one but El Hamma knows the day--that last "messenger" in accordance with the cyclic recurrences of events being also the first who came with H'amsa, hence Boha-eddin.=20 The names of the Druse Incarnations are Ali A-llal who appeared in India (Kabir we believe); Albar in Persia; Alya in Yemen; Moill and Kahim, in Eastern Africa; Moessa and Had-di in Central Asia; Albou and Manssour in China; and Buddea, that is, Boha-eddin8 in Tartary, whence he came and whither he returned. This last one, some say, was dual-sexed on earth.= =20 Having entered into El-Hakim--the Khalif, a monster of wickedness--he brought him to be assassinated, and then sent H'amsa to preach and to found the Brotherhood of Lebanon. El-Hakim then is but a mask. It is Buddea, i.e.= , Bohaeddin they expect.9 =20 =20 LAMAIC HIERARCHY And now for the Lamaic hierarchy.=20 Of the living or incarnate Buddhas there are five also, the chief of whom i= s Dalay, or rather Talay, Lama--from Tale "Ocean" or Sea; he being called the "Ocean of Wisdom."=20 Above him, as above H'amsa, there is but the "SUPREME WISDOM"--the abstract principle from which emanated the five Buddhas=97 Maitree Buddha (the last Boddhisattva, or Vishnu in the Kalanki avatar) the tenth "messenger" expected on earth--included. But this will be the One Wisdom and will incarnate itself into the whole humanity collectively, not in a single individual. But of this mystery--no more at present. These five "Hobilgans" are distributed in the following order: (1) Talay-Lama, of Lha-ssa--the incarnation of the "Spiritual" "passive" wisdom--which proceeds from Gautama or Siddartha Buddha, or Fo. (2) Bande-cha-an Rem-boo-tchi, at Djashi-Loombo. He is "the active earthly wisdom." (3) Sa-Dcha-Fo, or the "Mouthpiece of Buddha," otherwise the "word" at Ssamboo. (4) Khi-sson-Tamba--the "Precursor" (of Buddha) at the Grand Kooren. (5) Tchang-Zya-Fo-Lang, in the altai mountains. He is called the "Successor= " (of Buddha). =20 The "Shaberons" are one degree lower. They, like the chief Okhals of the Druses, are the initiates of the great wisdom or Buddh Esoteric religion.=20 This double list of the "Five" shows great similarity at least between the polity of the two systems.=20 The reader must bear in mind that they have sprung into their present visible conditions nearly at the same time.=20 It was from the ninth to the fifteenth centuries that modern Lamaism evolve= d its ritual and popular religion, which serves the Hobilgans and Shaberons a= s a blind, even against the curiosity of the average Chinaman and Tibetan.=20 It was in the eleventh century that H'amsa founded the Brotherhood of Lebanon; and till now no one has acquired its secrets! =20 666 It is supremely strange that both the Lamas and Druses should have the same mystical statistics. They reckon the bulk of the human race at 1,332 millions.=20 When good and evil, they say, shall come to an equilibrium in the scales of human actions (now evil is far the heavier), then the breath of "Wisdom," will annihilate in a wink of the eye just 666 millions of men. The survivin= g 666 millions will have "Supreme Wisdom" incarnated in them.10 This may have, and probably has, an allegorical meaning. But what relation might it possibly bear to the number of the "grand Beast" of John's Revelation?=20 If more were known than really is of the religions of Tibet and the Druses, then would scholars see that there is more affinity, between Turanian Lamaists and the Semitic, "El-Hammites," or Druses, than was ever suspected= . But all is darkness, conjecture, and mere guesswork whenever the writers speak of either the one or the other. The little that has transpired of their beliefs is genially so disfigured by prejudice and ignorance that no learned Lama or Druse would ever recognise a glimpse of likeness to his faith in these speculative fantasies. Even the profoundly suggestive conclusion to which came Godfrey Higgins (Celtic Druids Part I, 101) howeve= r true, is but half so. "It is evident" he writes "that there was a secret science possessed somewhere (by the ancients) which must have been guarded by the most solemn oaths . . . and I cannot help suspecting that there is still a secret doctrine known only in the deep recesses of the crypts of Tibet." . . . To conclude with the Druses: As Selama and Boha-eddin--two names more than suggestive of the words "Lama" and "Buddha"--are the only ones entrusted with the secret of H'amsa's retreat; and having the means of consulting wit= h their master, they produce from time to time his directions and commands to the Brotherhood, so, even to this day do the Okhals of that name travel every seventh year, through Bussora and Persia into Tartary and Tibet to th= e very west of China and return at the expiration of the eleventh year, bringing them fresh orders from "El' Hamma."=20 Owing to the expectation of war between China and Russia, only last year a Druse messenger passed through Bombay on his way to Tibet and Tartary. This would explain "the superstitious" belief that "the souls of all pious Druse= s are supposed to be occupying in large numbers certain cities in China."=20 =20 PAMIR PLATEAU It is around the plateau of the Pamirs--they say with the Biblical scholars--that the cradle of the true race must be located: but the cradle of initiated humanity only; of those who have for the first time tasted of the fruit of knowledge, and these are in Tibet Mongolia, Tartary, China and India, where also the souls of their pious and initiated brethren transmigrate, and rebecome "sons of God."=20 What this language means every Theosophist ought to know. They discredit th= e fable of Adam and Eve, and say that they who first ate of the forbidden fruit and thus became "Elohim" were Enoch or Hermes (the supposed father of Masonry), and Seth or Sat-an, the father of secret wisdom and learning, whose abode, they say, is now in the planet Mercury,11 and whom the Christians were kind enough to convert into a chief devil, the "fallen Angel." Their evil one is an abstract principle, and called the "Rival." [Adversary?] The "millions of Chinese Unitarians" may mean Tibetan Lamas, Hindus, and others of the East, as well as Chinamen. It is true that the Druses believe in and expect their resurrection day in Armageddon, which, however, they pronounce otherwise. As the phrase occurs in the Apocalypse it may seem to some that they got the idea in St. John's Revelation. It is nothing of the kind.=20 That day which, according to the Druse teaching "will consummate the great spiritual plan--the bodies of the wise and faithful will be absorbed into the absolute essence, and transformed from the many, into the ONE." This is pre-eminently the Buddhist idea of Nirvana, and that of the Vedantin final absorption into Parabrahm.=20 Their "Persian Magianism and Gnosticism," make them regard St. John as Oannes, the Chaldean Man-Fish, hence connects their belief at once with the Indian Vishnu and the Lamaic Symbology. Their "Armageddon" is simply "Ramdagon,"12 and this is how it is explained. The sentence in Revelation is no better interpreted than so many other things by Christians, while even the non-Kabalistic Jews know nothing of it= s real meaning. Armageddon is mistaken for a geographical locality, viz., the elevated table of Esdraelon or Ar-mageddon "the mountain of Megiddo," where Gideon triumphed over the Midianites.13 It is an erroneous notion= , for the name in the Revelation refers to a mythical place mentioned in one of the most archaic traditions of the heathen East, especially among the Turanian and Semitic races. It is simply a kind of purgatorial Elysium, in which departed spirits are collected, to await the day of final judgment. That it is so is proved by the verse in Revelation. "And he gathered them together into a place called . . . Armageddon (XVI. 16), when the seventh angel will pour out his vial into the air."=20 The Druses pronounce the name of that mystical locality "Ramdagon." It is, then, highly probable that the word is an anagram, as shown by the author o= f the "Commentary on the Apocalypse." It means ''Rama-Dagon,''14 the first signifying Sun-God of that name, and the second "Dagon" or the Chaldean Holy Wisdom incarnated in their "Messenger," Oannes--the Man-Fish, and descending on th= e "Sons of God" or the Initiates of whatever country; those, in short, throug= h whom Deific Wisdom occasionally reveals itself to the world. Theosophist, June, 1881 _____=20=20 =20 1 The work presented by Nasr-Allah to the French King as a portion of the Druse Scriptures, and translated by Petis de la Croix in 1701--is pronounce= d a forgery. Not one of the copies now in the possession of the Bodleian, Vienna, or Vatican Libraries is genuine, and besides each of them is a copy from the other. Great was always the curiosity of the travellers and greate= r yet the efforts of the indomitable and ever-prying missionary, to penetrate behind the veil of Druse worship, but all have resulted in failure. The strictest secrecy as to the nature of their beliefs, the peculiar rites practised in their subterranean Holoweys, and the contents of their canonical books was enjoined upon their followers by H'amsa and Boha-eddin, the chief and first disciple of the former.=20 =20 2 "Lama" means path or road in the vulgar Tibetan language, but in that figurative sense it conveys the meaning of way: as the "way to wisdom or salvation." Strangely enough it also means "cross."=20 It is the Roman figure X or ten, the emblem of perfection or perfect number= , and stood for ten with the Egyptians, Chinese, Ph=9Cnicians, Romans, &c. It= is also found in the Mexican secular calendars.=20 The Tartars call it lama from the Scytho-Turanian word lamh, hand, (from th= e number of fingers on both hands), and it is synonymous with the Jod of the Chaldees, "and thus became the name of a cross, of the High Priest of the Tartars, and of the Lamaic Messenger of God," says the author of the Book o= f God; "Commentaries on the Apocalypse." With the Irish luam signifies the head of the Church, a spiritual chief.=20 3 And a most unsatisfactory term it is, as the Lamaists have no conception of the anthropomorphic deity which the English word "God" represents.=20 Fo or Buddha (the latter name being quite unknown to the common people) is their equivalent expression for that All-embracing, Superior Good, or Wisdo= m from which all proceeds, as does the light from the sun, the cause being nothing personal, but simply an Abstract Principle.=20 AND IT IS THIS THAT IN ALL OUR THEOSOPHICAL WRITING, FOR THE WANT OF A BETTER WORD, WE HAVE TO TERM "GOD-LIKE," AND "DIVINE." =20 =20 =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 -----Original Message----- From: Peter Bernin [mailto:bernin@algonet.se]=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 12:37 PM To: dalval14@earthlink.net Subject: Holoweys... =20 Dear Dallas, =20 Many thanks for your comments on Patanjali, I will reflect on them, and com= e back if anything new turns up. =20 I am just back from our meetings on Wendesday=85today we talked about =93Intelligent Design=94 and we were 17 persons, which is good=85 =20 Now I want to ask you about a word which HPB uses in her article Lamas and Druses which I am translating into Swedish just now=85 [ HPB Art, Vol. III,= p. 281 ] =20 =93=85=85the underground Holoweys (place of religious meeting)=85..=94 =20 =20 What does the word Holoweys means=85is that an English word or a libanese= =85I cannot make it out=85 I do not find it in any dictionary=85can you help out= ? =20 Peter =20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Thu Jan 26 06:33:43 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82397 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2006 14:33:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jan 2006 14:33:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.70) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jan 2006 14:33:41 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.217] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1F287b-0006lN-75; Thu, 26 Jan 2006 09:29:12 -0500 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 06:28:51 -0800 Message-ID: <030a01c62284$d991b430$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79c8c268f16d239d07a21fb8f66cda5682350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: BASIC THEOSOPHICAL CONCEPTS X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=R-b7eQSBGfYEFTjTZRafmUN3z82AZ24xjdZBHXKkktUi7g X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/26/2006 6:23 AM Dear Gerry: I cannot make any statements on the =93esoteric=94 (secret and hidden) sinc= e, by definition, the moment they are published they cease being so, and become EXOTERIC. We may title some explanations =93esoteric=94 but are they ? In considering, for instance, our UNIVERSE, yes, it is the only one we cognize in part, But behind that has to be cause and law that together project it into objectivity and the kind of life e know =96 speaking generally. I would say that those ancient and still unknown energies an purposes may b= e logically inferred, but not defined. Behind and within our known universe I am sure there is a Universe, and behind and within THAT there are UNIVERSES UPON UNIVERSES unending.=20=20 Infinity and eternity, to my mind, stand for only partial expressions of th= e inexpressible. And still the Buddha=92s expression: =93All compound thing= s are perishable,=94 remains as a truism. =93Reality=94 lies within the mind of their present THINKER. But where do= es that THINKER draw its origin? Why is there the concept (logically derived) of =93Independence=94 and =93FREE-THOUGHT?=94 My point of view is of necessity from the level of the embodied mind (KAMA-MANAS). It is =93real=94 for me, but also can be seen as a perch in = a transitory and ever changing Universe. To me the real question is: =93Why do we need in each configuration a =93p= erch=94 or a sense of continuing permanency? How far back does MEMORY extend?=20=20 We know this body of ours =96 the temporary and ever changing physical vest= ure -- expires =96 and then, the experiences (stored as memories) go where? Is this not the basis for the Jataka Tales? -- and the doctrine of REINCARNATION (which is based on KARMA =96 everlasting LAW) ? Please see notes below. Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 -----Original Message----- From: Gerald Schueler [mailto:gschueler@earthlink.net]=20 Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 6:31 AM To: Theosophy Study List Subject: RE: BASIC THEOSOPHICAL CONCEPTS GS I find Dal's Theosophical Concepts to be very exoteric and so I am interjecting a little esotericism. The Theosophical teachings from Dal here are from the viewpoint of imputational reality, and my comments are laregly from the viewpoint of ultimate reality. There is no real conflict. TB BASIC THEOSOPHICAL CONCEPTS=20 1.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 The Universe is All.=A0 IT has no limits, either in s= pace=A0=20 =A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 or in = time.=A0 It is Immortal.=A0 It is Life.=20 =A0 GS Our universe is limited to this time and this space. Time and Space are themselves limited and come into existence with the universe and also go out with it. Our universe is only one of countless universes. HPB defines our solar universe and our family universe separately, and so how we describe it depends on how we define it.=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D TB AGREED =96 But what is behind those ? What causes them? =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D TB 2.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 The Universe operates under cyclic Law.=A0 Law can= not be =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0broke= n.=A0 It supports universal progression.=A0 Morally It can be said to provide justice and compassion to=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0all b= eings.=A0 Universe =3D Nature in toto.=20 =A0 GS Universal progression is a mayavic illusion based on a false assumption.=20 Morality and justice are not necessarily on the same page, and both are human conceptualizations that do not exist outside our own human minds.=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DT If morality and justice are =93human conceptions=94 what is their probable UNIVERSAL OR kosmic SOURCE ? Does KARMA play a part there ? I mean both universal and individual Karma. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =A0 DT 3.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Each being is a unit of Life.=A0 In its essence it= is a=A0ray of the Universal One.=A0 The unit is variously =A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 call= ed" Monad, or "Life-atom," etc... it is a =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 "per= petual motion machine" and is an immortal entity, it passes through all evolutionary=20 processes, acquiring intelligence and=20 experience.=20=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 It i= s analogous to a solar system, or to a galaxy. GS There is no such thing as an "immortal entity" because all things in conditional reality are compounds, not entities. Entities are imputations and exist only in imputational reality. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DT If the idea and the word designation =93entity=94 are phantasms, where does the concept arise? What necessitates it ? Does NATURE (UNIVERSE) do anything unnecessary? =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =A0 =A0=A0 DT 4.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Every being shares in the immortality of the One in= its=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0 essenc= e.=A0 It therefore cannot be destroyed or=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 anni= hilated as a Unit of Life.=A0 Life or energy =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 is u= niversal, and in its diversity it animates =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 ever= y "unit of life."=20 =A0 GS Nothing whatever in conditional or imputational realities are immortal or eternal. =A0Nothing exists independently. Every "unit of life" is a mayavi= c illusion and has only an imputational reality. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D DT I agree that nothing material or conditioned has either eternity or fixed and immutable form.=20=20 I think if everything is the result of interdependence, the perceptive consciousness out-lives any form. If correct, then what is IT ? ] =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DT 5.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 In essence each "part" (Unit of Life), is united=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 thro= ugh 'electro-magnetic' links with all others. =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 There = is one whole;=A0 only the 'units' seem to be=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 sepa= rate, divided from one-another in terms of our =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 gross = perceptions of "matter."=A0 Their unity is the =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 basis = for cooperation expressed in brief as=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Univ= ersal Brotherhood. >> =A0 We cannot really separate out a single "unit of life" except in an imputational and relative sense. The "electro-magnetic link" is called Fohat. The unity of the entire living and conscious network that is our manvantaric universe is called conditional reality. When we impute beings and objects to this, we create imputational reality. Ultimate reality, our true thoroughly established nature, is monadic which means nondual. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DT 5.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 To make a physical form each 'unit' draws together =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 other units of lesser expe= rience than itself on the =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 "Ladder of Being."=A0=20 The idea of hosts of monads combining together to form material objects is an imputational reality and is fraught with logic problems such as, How can immaterial monads have spacial extension? Beings per se are imputational, let along those posited to have "lesser experince."=20=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D DT As I understand it the MONAD is NOT defined by the physical plane of existence at all. It ever remains the cause We may think of it as an =93energy=94 =96=20 And, to make it logical to us, we endow it with the attribute of eternity, impersonality, and permanence =96 also, capable of traversing any plane of manifested existence (as in Samadhi) as a unit of SPIRIT-MATTER. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DT In doing that it makes itself responsible for their growth and well-being.=A0 GS The idea of responsibillty for the monads that comprise our body is based on the false asumptions of our own personal self and of the selves of those monads. We make imputatons and then we feel responsible for them and we do so because we worry more about ethics than compassion. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DT Can the =93falseness=94 be elaborated on ? If we impress immature Monads with errors and false values of living (anti-law) are we not responsible ? What is =93evil?=94 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DT Just as a "teacher" makes himself responsible for the =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 progress of many pupils.= =A0 It should be noted that =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 while the "Teacher" off= ers instruction based on =A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 his experience, it is the re= sponsibility of the =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 "pupils" to test and adopt= it when they are=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 satisfied as to its accura= cy.=A0 We call this, in =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 general terms : Evolution,= when viewed as a whole.=20 GS What "lessons" our life-atoms learn from comprising our body, we can only wonder. The idea that there are living beings who need to learn and evolve is an imputational idea based on false assumptions. Evolution is a human conceptualization, an interpretation of our experiences in timeful imputational reality. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DT Of what value is any speculation unless it is an extension of knowledge and / or wisdom already understood? What "false assumptions" permit "imputational thought ?"=20=20 Even "imputation" needs a basis -- either true or false, not may be ???? =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DT 6.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Any "form," serves temporarily as a place = for those beings of lesser experience to acquire more ex-=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 peri= ence and thus have opportunity to "advance." =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Unde= r the operation of LAW, Karma, they acquire,=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 each= in its own way, a wider experience, a higher=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 degr= ee of consciousness.=A0 All those who have not =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 yet = reached the "human-mind" state, are called =A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 non-= self-conscious "life-atoms."=A0They are=20 incipient men-to-be.=A0 They inform for the moment, =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 the = elemental, mineral, vegetable and animal =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 king= doms, or divisions, of Nature.=20 =A0 GS Form is one of the five skandhas, and requires the elements for material substances. =A0As a skandha, it is conditional, but the forms themselves ar= e imputational. The whole notion of "wider experience" and "higher degress of consciousness" implies a linear evolutionary development that is totally illogical. The scientific model of evolution, the Big Bang, starts with the illogical assumption of a dense hunk of matter that explodes. This is an example of the logic problems associated with origins, such as the old chick and egg problem. Conditional reality logically has no beginning and no end. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DT To me "imputational" means "imagined" or thought-formed.=20=20 An image in the mind is formed. Why? How? What purpose has it? A "skandha" to me implies a modification has been imposed on the basic Monad. Are "Monads" unacceptable?=20 I agree that the "Big Bang theory" is illogical. Yet where does the idea come from?=20 If one starts with "matter only" then whence is energy and such limits as i= t might devise or impose?=20=20 Who or where is the "Image maker?"=20 The question of CAUSE remains to be answered. "Linear AND Spherical (all sensitive) evolution are to me, only a way of looking at either the whole picture, or at the progress of a single INTELLIGENCE (Monad). Since both are employed there must be a reason for them to exist. By themselves they disregard too many factors of evidence. How are they to be reconciled? Yes "form" is one of the 5 skandhas ---- so I agree it is transitory, a tool, an instrument -- but no "skandha" is "ME."=20=20=20 As a thinking UNIT (Monad), I recognize that I have to live in a "form" an= d its deficiencies on this material plane in this life until it falls apart from old age and decrepitude. ?=20=20 That does not mean that my MIND ages or becomes inoperative. Neither does it imply that the CONTROLLER OF THE MIND [ the "ME" ] vanishes, either wholly or partially. The brain as a part of the form obviously deteriorate= s in its main work as a kind of a translator. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DT 7.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 When the level of self-consciousness (mind, mana= s, man,=A0soul) is achieved by any of the "lives," it =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 procee= ds further, as a human being, through the =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 proc= ess of reincarnation, using many successive =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 phys= ical bodies.=A0 All live in the same framework =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 of l= aw, progression and mutual support.=A0 The =A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 whol= e evolutionary scheme is a vast brotherhood. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 In t= he man-mind condition/stage, progress is by =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 tria= l/error, and thus the awareness or attentive =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 facu= lty is developed as the individual studies=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 the = operation of universal laws operating in and =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 arou= nd him.=20 =A0 GS =A0 Linear evolution is not logical. The human need for meaning in life is the sole goad to us to impute evolutionary entities. We find comfort in thinking that we are growing and evolving, that we evolve through reincarnarnation just like we grow during a single life. But death just starts a new life. HPB's evolutionary scheme, like any and all evolutionary schemes, is imputational. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DTB I don't see what "linearity" has to do with this. No one can abandon the central and all-enveloping fact that we are surrounded by sentient entities of various levels of intelligence (including humans) - so in fact we are at the center of a "sphere" and simultaneously impinge of others' spheres as they do on us. So sphericity is synthetic, and draws al= l of us out of the errors of pure linearity. How do we learn to deal with so many ? Our eyes and ears do it and the brain learns to handle this vast multiplicity on behalf of the ME -- SINGULARITY ? Yes / NO ? What is the ENTITY that note and receives or rejects such experiences? Why is / was such a system (to use for consideration) evolved ?=20=20 Is living solely for sensation of pleasure? Can pleasure or bliss be created without contrast? Whence comes pain and sorrow? {Buddha's FIRST TRUTH) How is this brought to a close [ 2nd TRUTH ] ? =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DT 8.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Like the Universe, man is seven-fold in constituti= on:=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 1.=A0=A0 Spirit =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= - Atman, (a "Ray" of the Divine. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 2.=A0=A0 Discrimination-Intuition-Conscience=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0 - Buddhi, ( memory of experiences) =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 3.=A0=A0 Thinking, Intellection, Reason, =A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0 - Mind - Manas, (choice & free will =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 4.=A0=A0 Emotion, Sensation, Selfishness - =A0=A0= =A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0 - Kama,=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 ( desire, passion ) =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 5.=A0=A0 Vitality, Life-energy, magnetism - =A0= =A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0 - Prana, Jiva=A0 (vitality, life-force) =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 6.=A0=A0 Electro-magnetic model form -=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0 - Astral body,=A0 (electro-magnetic form) =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 7.=A0=A0 Physical Body.=A0 (Known to us.)=20 GS Like the universe, man is imputational. Skandhas and elements and principles are all conditional. Take a hard look at the list here and try to find a "human being" in it. We observe elements and skandhas working though principles, and we impute a human being based on that but no human being really exists as such. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DT That's because the HUMAN BEING is behind or within. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =09 DT 9.=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0The Universe, Man, and all other beings go through = an evolutionary cycle which is seven-fold, covering an immense time,=20 during which each being passes through every one of the seven phases=20 that this seven-fold scheme provides, so that each may secure the=20 highest degree of perfection by its own experiences and voluntary=20 decisions.=A0 All progress is by self-effort.=A0 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D GS The Theosophical separation of seven, our so-called sevenfold nature, is an interpretation, an arbitrary division, a model. Other schemes, other models, also exist and can be used. Not only is all progress by self-effort, but all progress is also a dream-like illusion. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DT Not according to the "Ancient Wisdom." and Buddhism. What can a "dream-like" illusion be ? Any analogy ? =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =A0 =A0 DT 10.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 The self-conscious man, in which Manas (mind) or self-consciousness is the active principle, makes decisions.=A0 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D GS Because there is no self except imputationally, there can be no self-consciousness. Self-consciousness is an illusion. The manovijnana look inward and sees the alayavijnana and imputes a self to it, but no self-consciousness exists. [ MEANS WHAT ? ] Consciousness as manas can focus on the other principles, can focus on the skandhas, and can focus on the elements, but cannot focus on itself because there is none, only what we impute based on what we can focus on. The self is not findable. There is a difference between not being findable and not existing per se. The self does exist. It exists as an imputational entity. We can impute it, but we cannot find or observe it. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DT I agree that from the point of view of the "form" and its limited consciousness this is true. But the form is indeed a passing thing. So one has to seek something with greater validity. I know perfectly well that "I= " exist. The rest may be maya of various kinds and on various planes, But tha= t does not make them useful to me, to all of us, and to themselves, as we may impute to them an entitative existence to make their presence logical and useful to themselves and the rest of the UNIVERSE.=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DT Motive actuates Karma.=A0 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D GS Karma mean "action" and so it is inherent in our continuum of Space and Motion. If I stand in the rain, I will get wet no matter my motive. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DT Why stand in the rain without good reason? Motive =3D reason, to me.=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DT If the decisions are universally-based, 'good' and progress for the unit, and the whole accrues rapidly.=A0 Should decisions be self-focused, as opposed to the general good, 'evil' results.=A0 Karma thu= s actuated, teaches the unit through disciplining circumstances what the ideal decisions ought to be.=A0 Thus evolution proceeds.=A0 All karmic even= ts=20 are the direct result of the choices that are individually made.=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D GS Karma, the law of conditional reality, has taught most of us what is called imputational reality. Karma teaches most of us more "bad" things than "good" things. Karma is conditional and timeful. Causality is imputational and timeful, an interpretation based on our imputational observations over time. The notion that we are entities with choices is imputational. There is no karma, and there are no choices, in the timeless. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DT Karma IS A UNIVERSAL AND IMPERSONAL LAW -- if we contravene it then we distort the smooth evolutionary "path." The response from impartial Nature (through karma) is corrective, as I see it. Of course the purpose an= d nature of LAW require discussion and definition -- as the Buddha did in the 3 RD TRUTH -- bringing pain and sorrow to a close through understanding -- and then the 4 TH TRUTH -- the WAY (or PATH ) OPENS.=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D =A0=A0=A0=20 =A0 DT 11.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Graduates from this "School-of-Life" face the cho= ice or responsibility of becoming, in their turn, "teachers."=A0 That is, of actively=20 assisting in the process of diffusing and explaining this universal process.=A0 They are superior men. [ Similar to the Professors in our Universities.]=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D GS As a "school of life" our world is dismal to say the best. Graduates graduate in spite of reincarnation and karma, not because of it. The statistical average goes through seven Rounds. A few lag behind. A few go faster than the norm. All of this is imputational interpreting. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =A0 =A0 DT 12.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 These are designated Sages, Wise Men, Adepts, Masters-of-Wisdom, Arhats, Bodhisattvas, Buddhas, Dhyan Chohans,=20 Tathagatas, Prophets, etc...=20=20=09 [ In history we may name Jesus, Gautama the Buddha, Krishna, Pythagoras, Lao Tse, Plato, Shankaracharya, Apollonius of Tyana, and many others.]=A0 They all came as reformers, if their original teachings are=20 compared -- they all taught the same metaphysical doctrines and practical ethics.]=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =A0 GS The only difference between Joe Sixpack and Buddha is in their respective viewpoint. Joe accepts an imputational viewpoint. Buddha accepts an ultimate viewpoint. Otherwise, there is no difference whatsoever. DT ok 6-PACK HAS atma-buddhi-manas IN LATENCY ? DT 13.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 The process of securing experience by mankind is= =20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 called reincarnation.=A0 The "Life-atom"= that is self- =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 conscious, or the Real Man,=A0 uses a ph= ysical body which is =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 assembled, as above described for it to = live in.=A0 In this =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 life process it not only advances (or re= cedes) depending on =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 its choices, but at the same time serves= to assist and=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 elevate by its example the whole mass of= "life-atoms" for =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 which it has specific karmic responsibil= ities.=A0=A0 >> GS Reincarnation is an interpretation based on our observations in imputational reality. Only the skandhas reincarnate.=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DT Are skandhas and Monads synonymous? =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =A0 DT =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0At death the man-consciousness passe= s first into a =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 state called Kama-Loka, where a separati= on between the=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 moral and the immoral occurs.=A0 GS Kamaloka has nothing to do with morality. The idea that it does so is an imputational interpretation. Kamaloka is an event or experience on the astral plane; the separation of the lower four principles from the upper three. It has nothing to do with morality or ethics or the duality of good/evil. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DT Then what is the use of DEVACHAN ? If that is permitted=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DT A =93Second death" occurs in a=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 short while and the immoral side of one'= s nature is allowed=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 to disintegrate gradually in the astral = plane of Kama-Loka.=A0=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D How can an "immortal side of one's nature" disintegrate? This kind of illogic makes non-Theosophists laugh at us. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DT Theosophy of course goes a lot further: [To reinforce that which I had abbreviated: Read The KEY TO THEOSOPHY, or The OCEAN OF THEOSOPHY to secure the complete doctrine -- The skandhas (monads) separate as the life power [Prana/jiva] that has held the form together during earth-life dissipates. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =A0 DT=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 The higher, immortal Ego, the moral side of our being= ,=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D GS The Ego has nothing to do with morality. It is the three principles of atma, buddhi, and manas, operating together as if it were a single entity, which it is not. Above these is the paramatman, and beyond that is the Monad.=20 DT [see bellow please] =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DT ...=A0=A0 passes into a state called Devachan, which has three stages =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 1st the rupa-loka, where the consciousne= ss of the Ego is =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 occupied with the aspirational and noble= feelings, thoughts =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 and actions of the last personal life= .=A0 This process of =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 assimilation being over, the MIND-EGO en= ters a spiritual =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 plane where, united with the "Ray" of= the Universal Spirit, =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 it is quasi-omniscient.=A0 DT [see bellow please] =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D GS The devachan of HPB is not the spiritual dewachan of Tibetan Buddhism as they are on two different planes. Devachan is on the mental plane. It is the "land of the gods" where "god" is the highest of the six living beings described by Buddha. In devachan, we are in the realm of the gods, and there are two kinds, asauras and devas. In Buddhism rupa-loka is the form realm which equates to HPB's three upper spiritual planes, which appear formless to us in the kama-loka or desire realm (Buddhism's kama-loka is not HPB's kamaloka). This first stage is one of mental dream-like projection. DT [see bellow please] =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DT This 2nd stage is called the =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 arupa-loka [formless stage].=A0 In that = condition it is able =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 to review the life last lived within the= perspective of all=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 previous lives, and thus trace the line = of its Karma.=A0=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D GS This arupa-loka is not the same as Buddhism's arupa-loka which equates to the highest three planes in the ten-plane Theosophical universe model. The ability to be conscious in this state is not available to most of us. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =A0 DT The 3rd stage is one of preparation for a new incarnation, and =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 it begins to draw to itself those person= al elements=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 (skandhas) which will be used to make up= its new=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 personality.=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D GS While the Ego is in devachan, the upper Higher Self is traveling through the outer rounds of the family universe. Preparation for rebirth is not done in devachan, which is on the mental plane, but in the kamaloka of the astral plane, where those four lower principles await the re-uniion. All of this is imputational. When we leave devachan and return to the kamaloka in preparation for rebirth in one of the six realms we "die" in that devachanic state. This is the only real "pain" and "suffering" experienced in devachan. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DT THE doctrines of THEOSOPHY state it differently -- I can print them out for you to consider -- I have already done this earlier. Let me know. In brief: "The first question, however, must be "What is the cause for passing into Devachan?" Some have said that it is good Karma or good acts that take us and keep us there, but this is a very incomplete reply. Of course, in the sense that it is happiness to go into that state, it may be called good Karma. But it does not follow that the man whose life is good, passed in constant unselfish work for others without repining, and free from desire t= o have somewhere his reward, will go to Devachan.=20 Yet his Karma must be good; it must act on him, however, in other lives, fo= r the earth-life is the place where such Karma has its operation. But if at the same time that he is thus working for others he wishes for release or for some place or time when and where he may have rest, then, of course, he must go to Devachan for a period which will be in proportion to the intensity of those desires. Again, it should not be forgotten that the soul must have some rest. Were it, before becoming bright as the diamond, hard as adamant, and strong as steel, to go on working, working through earth-life after earth-life withou= t a break between, it must at last succumb to the strain and come to nothing. Nature therefore has provided for it a place of rest -- in Devachan; and that we should thankfully accept if it falls to our lot.=20 But does Devachan suffer in the comparison made between it and this life on earth? To me it seems not. Human life is as great an illusion as any. To th= e sage Ribhu, Vishnu said it was the longest-lived reign of fancy. To say tha= t it is a terrible thing to think of a mother in Devachan enjoying its bliss while the child is suffering on earth, is to prefer one illusion over another, to hug a philosophical error to the breast. Both states are out of the true, while the Ego, who is the real witness, sees the lower personalit= y struggling with these phantoms while it, whether the body be living or its other parts be in Devachan, enjoys eternal felicity. It sits on high unmoved, immovable.=20 The great verse in the Isa-Upanishad settles this matter for me in these words:=20 "What room is there for sorrow and what for doubt in him who knows that all spiritual beings are the same in kind, though differing in degree."=20 Therefore if I believe this, I must also know that, no matter whether I and my best beloved are in Devachan or on earth, they and I must forever partak= e of the highest development attained by the greatest of sages, for, as they and I are spiritual beings, we must have communion forever on the higher planes of our being. Then, again, the fact seems to be lost sight of that each night we go into = a sort of Devachan - the dream state or sleep without dream. The loving mother, no matter how unfortunate or evil her child, must sleep, and in tha= t state she may have dreams of her loved ones around her in just the very condition of mind and body she would have them enjoy. If Devachan be objectionable, why not also rebel against our necessary sleep which acts on our physical frame to give it rest, as Devachan does upon our more ethereal parts? ... And from watching the mental processes in dreams we know that, in the space of time taken for a bell to drop from the table to the floor, one may dream through a whole lifetime, with all the incidents of each day and hour packe= d into such a limited period.... =20 Devachan, however, is not a meaningless or useless state. In it we are rested; that part of us which could not bloom under the chilling skies of earth-life bursts forth into flower and goes back with us to another life stronger and more a part of our nature than before; our strength is revived for another journey between deaths. Why shall we repine that nature kindly aids us in the interminable struggle; why thus ever keep the mind revolving about this petty personality and its good or evil fortune? " W.Q.J. PATH Sept. 1890 --------------------------------------------------------- Best wishes as always, and thanks Dal ------------------------------------------ Jerry S. =A0 From dalval14@earthlink.net Fri Jan 27 03:23:24 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 35163 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2006 11:23:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jan 2006 11:23:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.70) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jan 2006 11:23:23 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.217] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth10.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1F2Rgy-0006a0-Hk; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 06:23:00 -0500 To: "'Theosophy Study List'" Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 03:22:43 -0800 Message-ID: <033001c62334$01f765a0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79e9a96c384293f0e357b8baa83378e827350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: our deepest fear ~ ~ X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=NUCn-fmUcCRZKrn8ksWOD7hyMkJVIxhSKAw0u6Cmi6LkVQ X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1/27/2006 3:17 AM Dear Mauri: Any fear is based on ignorance. If you receive detailed knowledge then fear is controllable. Is 'speculation" a search for knowledge ? Dallas ================== -----Original Message----- From: Mauri Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 9:01 PM To: Subject: Re: our deepest fear ~ ~ G<> ... ^:-/ ... I don't get it. How can I give up something that I can't even define specifically enough except in conditional/imputational (or "karmic/mayavic"...) terms? I mean, how can anybody give up something other than conditionally/imputationally? I thought that any kind of realistic stab towards anything like Enlightenment/Liberation might involve something "more" (quotes per esoteric/y alerts) than any basically conventional/mainstreamy notions about "giving up" something or other (ie, in exchange for something re this side of Beness, for a start, or in some sense ...). I thought that something like "just being" might in some cases result in some sort of alerty transcending (hence my quotes or alerts on "just being") of "comparatively more conventional" notions about "giving up" something. Not that you might not have had some perfectly legitimate perspective there in your way, Gerald, with your invisible quotes and whatever. But I've been trying to to offer a different perspective (in case you were wondering) that, because it might be seen to be different, or somewhat different (maybe even somewhat unexpected, among other things, in some cases, ...), might even turn out to be somewhat helpful, as well, in some cases, maybe ... ^:-/ ... I seem to have trouble figuring out how anybody on this planet could still be so brainwashed, this day and age, as to hold on to some sort of "personal eternal self" (except maybe in some sense re this side of Beness?) as if it weren't conditional/imputational, so ... On the other hand ... for all I know you might've been implying something with those quotes on "give up"... snip [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From saidevo@yahoo.co.in Fri Jan 27 10:14:08 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: saidevo@yahoo.co.in X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69071 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2006 18:14:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jan 2006 18:14:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.231) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jan 2006 18:14:07 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.65] by n8.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jan 2006 18:13:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t2.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jan 2006 18:13:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.86] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jan 2006 18:13:28 -0000 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 18:13:27 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 216.155.203.231 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 219.65.123.250 From: "saidevotee" Subject: Science and religion in the modern world - 01 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=227523244; y=vW4QKISZqeY9EzvBG_HR1nRnFY2ooUc1jgbYc8WUg-FziA X-Yahoo-Profile: saidevo In his novel "Angels and Demons", Dan Brown, through the character=20 of the camerlengo, speaks about his views on the relevance of=20 science and religion to the modern world. I have attempted to=20 paraphrase the relevant portions of Chapter 94, but would like the=20 readers to refer to the original passages for better understanding=20 the meaning and context of the words. As a citizen of the world who is more religious than scientific, I=20 agree with the view that science provides no accountability. At=20 the same time, I think it would be interesting to know the views=20 of the readers of this forum on the points raised by Dan Brown. 1. Science might have facilitated our life and health, but it has=20 taken away the wonders of life: sunsets have come to be perceived=20 as wavelengths and frequencies; the mysteries of the universe have=20 been reduced to mathematical equations; even the self-worth of=20 humans has been demolished. 2. The technology that seems to unite us actually divides us. We=20 might be collected electronically across the globe, yet we are=20 alone. Violence, division, fracture, betrayal and skepticism have=20 become the new values of modern life, and cynicism and demand for=20 proof the paths of the seeker. Nothing is sacred before science.=20 As science probes deeper and deeper into God's creations in a=20 divide-and-conquer manner, it raises only more questions than it=20 answers. 3. The ancient war between science and religion is over, and=20 science has won, though not fairly. In the radical reorientation=20 of our society today, the old signposts of religion have become=20 meaningless. In the virus-like and exponential growth of science,=20 we are spinning out of control as our faiths are left behind, with=20 the result, we have started seeking spiritual truths in UFOs and=20 channeling. The modern soul is lonely and tormented, as it accepts=20 no meaning in anything beyond technology. 4. Science is destroying, not saving us. The church might have=20 tried to slow the unremitting march of science, occasionally with=20 misguided means, but its intention has always been of benevolence.=20 Look around you and understand that science has only brought in=20 chaos and pollution, its promises never being kept. 5. Science, that seeks to replace God today, lacks accountability.=20 It never warns us about the bad part of its technology. And when=20 technology overshoots its benevolent mark and threatens to destroy=20 the world, it is the church, the Pope, who tours around nations,=20 calling for restraint. And yet science proclaims the church is=20 ignorant and spurns it, whenever it tries to reach out to the=20 people affected by science. 6. Actually it is science which is more ignorant: in the same way=20 that the man who pays scant respect for the awesome power of=20 lightning is more ignorant than the man who respects it but cannot=20 define lighning. When science looks at the heavens through its=20 telescopes and proclaims that the slightest change in the atomic=20 levels of the universe would have rendered it as a lifeless mist, can't it find the hand of God in this grand scheme of life and=20 matter? Believing in mathematical impossibility rather than a=20 greater power signifies only spiritual bankruptcy. 7. If science does not believe in God, it must at least belive=20 that when it abdicates its faith in a greater power, it abandons=20 the sense of accountability, which creates only chaos and=20 destruction. Whereas faith, all faiths, insist on accountability:=20 to each other, to ourselves and to a higher truth, which is why it=20 is voice of guidance to the common people to their simple souls,=20 even though the faiths and its followers might be flawed. Regards, saidevo ------------------------------------------------------------------ From silva_cass@yahoo.com Fri Jan 27 17:21:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 98374 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2006 01:21:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jan 2006 01:21:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52106.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.109) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2006 01:21:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 17846 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Jan 2006 01:19:57 -0000 Message-ID: <20060128011957.17844.qmail@web52106.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [211.28.165.96] by web52106.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 17:19:57 PST Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 17:19:57 -0800 (PST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.109 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Science and religion in the modern world - 01 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=9-rGhZFksQg2JQIM81BqAgZA3v_N0G1jntvCJhPTDqDFge7Kxw X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1. Science might have facilitated our life and health, but it has taken away the wonders of life: sunsets have come to be perceived as wavelengths and frequencies; the mysteries of the universe have been reduced to mathematical equations; even the self-worth of humans has been demolished. Cass: Yes science has facilitated our life and health by giving us longer existences. I do not agree with the second sentence as Plato saw the universe in much the same way, geometrically. 2. The technology that seems to unite us actually divides us. We might be collected electronically across the globe, yet we are alone. Violence, division, fracture, betrayal and skepticism have become the new values of modern life, and cynicism and demand for proof the paths of the seeker. Nothing is sacred before science. As science probes deeper and deeper into God's creations in a divide-and-conquer manner, it raises only more questions than it answers. Cass: This should not be laid at the feet of Science. It is everyones duty to probe the laws of nature. 3. The ancient war between science and religion is over, and science has won, though not fairly. In the radical reorientation of our society today, the old signposts of religion have become meaningless. In the virus-like and exponential growth of science, we are spinning out of control as our faiths are left behind, with the result, we have started seeking spiritual truths in UFOs and channeling. The modern soul is lonely and tormented, as it accepts no meaning in anything beyond technology. Cass: The early church fathers did this when they separated science as being an integral part of religion. 4. Science is destroying, not saving us. The church might have tried to slow the unremitting march of science, occasionally with misguided means, but its intention has always been of benevolence. Look around you and understand that science has only brought in chaos and pollution, its promises never being kept. Cass: The bible, the Quran and whatever the Jewish Bible is have done this very successfully for the past 2000 years. 5. Science, that seeks to replace God today, lacks accountability. It never warns us about the bad part of its technology. And when technology overshoots its benevolent mark and threatens to destroy the world, it is the church, the Pope, who tours around nations, calling for restraint. And yet science proclaims the church is ignorant and spurns it, whenever it tries to reach out to the people affected by science. Cass: The argument put forward by the Church of a personal entity whose name is God is ridiculous and should be laughed at. 6. Actually it is science which is more ignorant: in the same way that the man who pays scant respect for the awesome power of lightning is more ignorant than the man who respects it but cannot define lighning. When science looks at the heavens through its telescopes and proclaims that the slightest change in the atomic levels of the universe would have rendered it as a lifeless mist, can't it find the hand of God in this grand scheme of life and matter? Believing in mathematical impossibility rather than a greater power signifies only spiritual bankruptcy. Cass: More ranting 7. If science does not believe in God, it must at least belive that when it abdicates its faith in a greater power, it abandons the sense of accountability, which creates only chaos and destruction. Whereas faith, all faiths, insist on accountability: to each other, to ourselves and to a higher truth, which is why it is voice of guidance to the common people to their simple souls, even though the faiths and its followers might be flawed. Cass: Accountability is not a belief in God, but a belief in the god within each and every one of us. As I previously stated, more religious dogma, separating state and church. My thoughts Cass Regards, saidevo ------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? With a free 1 GB, there's more in store with Yahoo! Mail. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sat Jan 28 13:07:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94297 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2006 21:07:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jan 2006 21:07:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.44) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2006 21:07:00 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n10.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jan 2006 21:06:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jan 2006 21:06:56 -0000 Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 21:06:55 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.44 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: Psychic VERSUS Initiate Visions & Knowledge X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=S8faLU4837zRj-cj60msWUG4yHarU58XiHbnNd3BBsPxIDXz3NlWucOc X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Psychic VERSUS Initiate Visions & Knowledge See: http://blavatskyarchives.com/psychicversusinitiate.htm Also checkout out our recommended readings in our bookstore on various subjects: http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/blavatskybookstore.htm Daniel Blavatsky Study Center --- Blavatsky Archives http://www.blavatskyarchives.com From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Sat Jan 28 14:34:31 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 6690 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2006 22:34:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jan 2006 22:34:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.38) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2006 22:34:31 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jan 2006 22:32:05 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jan 2006 22:32:05 -0000 Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 22:32:05 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.38 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 69.9.23.244 From: "danielhcaldwell" Subject: DidJesusExist.Info X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=pE4o5CR-Z5JisKQLGrC5bES4exhhqCQjnO4jz338InpKwEOKTw-am5Jf X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell DidJesusExist.Info See: http://didjesusexist.info/ From ringding@online.de Sat Jan 28 16:58:02 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: ringding@online.de X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71967 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2006 00:58:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jan 2006 00:58:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO moutng.kundenserver.de) (212.227.126.188) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jan 2006 00:58:00 -0000 Received: from [84.191.172.175] (helo=captainde01992) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu1) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKwpI-1F30sj2Ei4-00072F; Sun, 29 Jan 2006 01:57:29 +0100 Message-ID: <004b01c6246f$0bfe1ad0$3d5afea9@captainde01992> To: References: <7d.77cb0f0a.30ef0e86@cs.com> Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 01:42:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:d066391b47e67c594ae06bf3d758d7eb X-Originating-IP: 212.227.126.188 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Frank Reitemeyer" Subject: Re: Theos-World The Five Sacred Colors X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=224426186; y=nizGf6V7NadIBGkxlQVgjO41Td5Irw3xhbTKcyaSDnXWGyeDyuBflR9cjw X-Yahoo-Profile: frank_reitemeyer =>Frank, The 5 colored flag preceded Olcutt in Tibet by some thousands of years: From:www.prayerflags.com/download/article/pdf+tibet+5+colors&hl=en John, thanks for the link, but it did not work. But at surfed a while on that Homepage and found Olcott's flag here: http://www.prayerflags.com/display.asp?catid=4&id=39 Frank From samblo@cs.com Sun Jan 29 00:24:49 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: Samblo@cs.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94965 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2006 08:24:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jan 2006 08:24:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d22.mx.aol.com) (205.188.144.208) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jan 2006 08:24:48 -0000 Received: from Samblo@cs.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id r.25c.5e9f2d7 (4246) for ; Sun, 29 Jan 2006 03:23:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <25c.5e9f2d7.310dd597@cs.com> Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 03:23:51 EST To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 6.0 sub 10512 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Originating-IP: 205.188.144.208 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: samblo@cs.com Subject: Re: Theos-World The Five Sacred Colors X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=27151446 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Frank, Sorry for the inconvenience, I didn't realize the Google "prefix" of the URL was necessary, below is the full google URL path: http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:j6PfQd1aVJUJ:www.prayerflags.com/download/ article.pdf+tibet+5+colors&hl=en John [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jacmahnich@yahoo.com Sun Jan 29 16:49:33 2006 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 96723 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2006 00:49:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jan 2006 00:49:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10a.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com) (216.155.203.233) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jan 2006 00:49:29 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [216.155.201.64] by n10.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jan 2006 00:49:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by t1.bullet.dcn.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jan 2006 00:49:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.69] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jan 2006 00:49:27 -0000 X-Sender: jacmahnich@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@egroups.com Received: (qmail 18641 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2006 18:18:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jan 2006 18:18:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web37014.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (209.191.85.99) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jan 2006 18:18:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 5185 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Jan 2006 18:17:12 -0000 Message-ID: <20060129181712.5183.qmail@web37014.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [172.211.103.150] by web37014.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 29 Jan 2006 10:17:12 PST Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 10:17:12 -0800 (PST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 209.191.85.99 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Jacques Mahnich Subject: Hello - New comer X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=256079706; y=RvaPCq-3VVOkPuD4qL-MoH7Ts_XKoqfsHcTWa_8Pc4pMd7Tq-Q X-Yahoo-Profile: jacmahnich Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: eldon_tucker via web; 30 Jan 2006 00:49:25 -0000 Hello everybody, My first name is Jacques, I am almost 55 now, and a T.S member since 1980. I had the opportunity to join this discussion list back in the mid 90' during one of my stay in US. I am now back to France and ready to share again some ideas on Theosophical subjects. We (together with my spouse Anne-Marie who joined T.S. at the same time than me) have had 4 children (and 2 grand-children by now). I am working since 30 years in aerospace industry as an electronic engineer. My main topic of interest is the relationships between modern science and theosophical teachings (a subject HPB spent some time with...). Talk to you soon. Jacques --------------------------------- Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From waking.adept@gmail.com Sun Jan 29 17:40:58 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: waking.adept@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14773 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2006 01:40:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jan 2006 01:40:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO xproxy.gmail.com) (66.249.82.196) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jan 2006 01:40:57 -0000 Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id t14so637618wxc for ; Sun, 29 Jan 2006 17:40:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.16.15 with SMTP id 15mr2037741wxp; Sun, 29 Jan 2006 17:40:53 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from fujiko.home.local ( [24.45.229.137]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id h11sm8026947wxd.2006.01.29.17.40.52; Sun, 29 Jan 2006 17:40:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 20:40:51 -0500 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com References: <20060129181712.5183.qmail@web37014.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Organization: Eve Software Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20060129181712.5183.qmail@web37014.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Opera M2/8.51 (Win32, build 7712) X-Originating-IP: 66.249.82.196 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Mark S. Hamilton Jr." Subject: Re: Theos-World Hello - New comer X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=219719026 Hello, Welcome to the list. You would be happy to find that a lot of us are very much interested in the relation between Modern science and theosophy. Within the past few months there's been a lot of posts regarding this topic. I'm sure Leon will probably follow up on this, himself, but here is one such post from myself: -------------- "In part 3, H.P.B. stated that the brain dies LONG AFTER the body is dead (clinically speaking, death means that there is no pulse & no breathing). It also goes on to say that you go UNCONSCIOUS, and the spirit doesn't appear until hours or days afterwards, in most occasions." In Blavatsky's time, was this a well-known fact? Today, we have devices that can detect these things (such as EEG machines). Even on people who were apparently brain-dead, there is still electrical activity. See: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3619714&dopt=Citation It says: "low-voltage ... activity was recorded in nine (16.1%) patients as long as 72 hours following brain death" This shows data to suggest that the brain doesn't fully die until a few days after initial clinical death. In this study, the patients were clinically dead at one point, but kept alive artificially. It also continues by saying that a small portion of patients show sleep-like patterns. This infers that these patients were forced into a sleep-like state at their moment of death. -------------- -Mark H. On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 13:17:12 -0500, Jacques Mahnich wrote: > Hello everybody, > My first name is Jacques, I am almost 55 now, and a T.S member since > 1980. > I had the opportunity to join this discussion list back in the mid 90' > during one of my stay in US. I am now back to France and ready to share > again some ideas on Theosophical subjects. > We (together with my spouse Anne-Marie who joined T.S. at the same time > than me) have had 4 children (and 2 grand-children by now). > I am working since 30 years in aerospace industry as an electronic > engineer. > My main topic of interest is the relationships between modern science > and theosophical teachings (a subject HPB spent some time with...). > Talk to you soon. > Jacques > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on > new and used cars. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > -- Mark S. Hamilton Jr. waking.adept@gmail.com From silva_cass@yahoo.com Sun Jan 29 18:01:00 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53009 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2006 02:00:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jan 2006 02:00:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52115.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.118) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jan 2006 02:00:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 28921 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Jan 2006 02:00:54 -0000 Message-ID: <20060130020054.28919.qmail@web52115.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [211.28.165.96] by web52115.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 29 Jan 2006 18:00:54 PST Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 18:00:54 -0800 (PST) To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20060129181712.5183.qmail@web37014.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.118 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: Cass Silva Subject: Re: Theos-World Hello - New comer X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=uHSvtU_4JXvg9SuNJzjDJk15UOgo-6B4fQriize342w-BsMkMw X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Welcome Jacques Wonderful that we have a scientist that can verify scientific knowledge HPB spoke of 100 years ago. Cass Jacques Mahnich wrote: Hello everybody, My first name is Jacques, I am almost 55 now, and a T.S member since 1980. I had the opportunity to join this discussion list back in the mid 90' during one of my stay in US. I am now back to France and ready to share again some ideas on Theosophical subjects. We (together with my spouse Anne-Marie who joined T.S. at the same time than me) have had 4 children (and 2 grand-children by now). I am working since 30 years in aerospace industry as an electronic engineer. My main topic of interest is the relationships between modern science and theosophical teachings (a subject HPB spent some time with...). Talk to you soon. Jacques --------------------------------- Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Mon Jan 30 16:11:06 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19931 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2006 00:11:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2006 00:11:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.64) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2006 00:11:02 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.217] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1F3j4H-0000TZ-Sf; Mon, 30 Jan 2006 19:08:22 -0500 To: Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 16:08:05 -0800 Message-ID: <000001c625fa$6d6c1790$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: High In-Reply-To: X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec795238d412ac40b8d7b86366b97ee2f5af350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.64 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: [bn-study] Re: THEORIES ABOUT REINCARNATION AND SPIRITS H P B X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=xReXN90cwUZ0rcwPfvclFxJDdAsvYjSy0MHhT2nJwZT5mw X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Jan 30 2006 Dear Kees: Please see below: Best wishes, =09 Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D PLEASE ADD TO ARTICLE (omittted in first printiing DT ) "The human soul," says Apuleius, "is an immortal God" (Buddhi) which nevertheless has his beginning. When death rids it (the Soul), from its earthly corporeal organism, it is called lemure. There are among the latter not a few which are beneficent, and which become the gods or demons of the family, i.e., its domestic gods: in which case they are called lares. But they are vilified and spoken of as larv=E6 when sentenced by fate to wander about, they spread around them evil and plagues. (Inane terriculamentum, ceterum noxium malis); or if their real nature is doubtful they are referre= d to as simply manes (Apuleius, see--Du Dieu de Socrate, pp. 143-145. Edit. Niz.). Listen to Yamblichus, Proclus, Porphyry, Psellus, and to dozens of other writers on these mystic subjects.=20 The Magi of Chaldea believed and taught that the celestial or divine soul would participate in the bliss of eternal light, while the animal or sensuous soul would, if good, rapidly dissolve, and if wicked, go on wandering about in the Earth's sphere. In this case, "it (the soul) assumes at times the forms of various human phantoms and even those of animals." Th= e same was said of the Eidolon of the Greeks, and of their Nepesh by the Rabbins. (See Sciences Occultes, Count de Resie. V. 11.) All the Illuminati of the middle ages tell us of our astral Soul, the reflection of the dead o= r his spectre. At Natal death (birth) the pure spirit remains attached to the intermediate and luminous body but as soon as its lower form (the physical body) is dead, the former ascends heavenward, and the latter descends into the nether worlds, or the Kama loka.=20 Homer shows us the body of Patroclus--the true image of the terrestrial bod= y lying killed by Hector--rising in its spiritual form, and Lucretius shows old Ennius representing Homer himself, shedding bitter tears, amidst the shadows and the human simulachres on the shores of Acherusia "where live neither our bodies nor our souls," but only our images.=20 ". . . Esse Acherusia templa, . . . Quo neque permanent anim=E6, neque corpora nostra, Sed qu=E6dam simulacra. . . ."=20 Virgil called it imago "image" and in the Odyssey (I. XI) the author refers to it as the type, the model, and at the same time the copy of the body; since Telemachus will not recognize Ulysses and seeks to drive him off by saying--"No thou art not my father; thou art a demon,--trying to seduce me!= " (Odys. 1. XVI. v. 194.) "Latins do not lack significant proper names to designate the varieties of their demons; and thus they called them in turn, lares, lemures, genii and manes." Cicero, in translating Plato's Tim=E6us, translates the word daimones by lares; and Festus the grammarian, explains that the inferior or lower gods were the souls of men, making a difference between the two as Homer did, and between anima bruta and anima divina (animal and divine souls). Plutarch (in Proble. Rom.) makes the lares preside and inhabit the (haunted) houses, and calls them cruel, exacting, inquisitive, etc., etc. Festus thinks that there are good and bad ones amon= g the lares. For he calls them at one time pr=9Cstites as they gave occasiona= lly and watched over things carefully (direct apports), and at another--hostileos.12 "However it may be," says in his queer old French, Leloyer, "they are no better than our devils, who, if they do appear helpin= g sometimes men, and presenting them with property, it is only to hurt them the better and the more later on. Lemures are also devils and larv=E6 for t= hey appear at night in various human and animal forms, but still more frequentl= y with features that THEY borrow from dead men." (Livre des Spectres. V. 1V, p. 15 and 16.)=20 After this little honour rendered to his Christian preconceptions, that see Satan everywhere, Leloyer speaks like an Occultist, and a very erudite one too.=20 "It is quite certain that the genii and none other had mission to watch ove= r every newly born man, and that they were called genii, as says Censorius, because they had in their charge our race, and not only they presided over every mortal being but over whole generations and tribes, being the genii o= f the people."=20 The idea of guardian angels of men, races, localities, cities, and nations, was taken by the Roman Catholics from the pre-christian occultists and pagans. Symmachus (Epistol, 1. X) writes: "As souls are given to those who are born, so genii are distributed to the nations. Every city had its protecting genius, to whom the people sacrificed." There is more than one inscription found that reads: Genio civitates--"to the genius of the city."= =20 Only the ancient profane, never seemed sure any more than the modern whethe= r an apparition was the eidolon of a relative or the genius of the locality. Enneus while celebrating the anniversary of the name of his father Anchises= , seeing a serpent crawling on his tomb knew not whether that was the genius of his father or the genius of the place (Virgil). "The manes"13 were numbered and divided between good and bad; those that were sinister, and that Virgil calls numina larva, were appeased by sacrifices that they shoul= d commit no mischief, such as sending bad dreams to those who despised them, etc.=20 Tibullus shows by his line:=20 Ne tibi neglecti mittant insomnia manes. (Eleg., I, II.)=20 "Pagans thought that the lower Souls were transformed after death into diabolical aerial spirits." (Leloyer, p. 22.)=20 The term Eteroprosopos when divided into its several compound words will yield a whole sentence, "an other than I under the features of my person."= =20 It is to this terrestrial principle, the eidolon, the larva, the bhoot--cal= l it by whatever name--that reincarnation was refused in Isis.14=20 The doctrines of Theosophy are simply the faithful echoes of Antiquity. Man is a Unity only at his origin and at his end. All the Spirits, all the Souls, gods and demons emanate from and have for their root-principle the SOUL OF THE UNIVERSE--says Porphyry (De Sacrifice). Not a philosopher of an= y notoriety who did not believe (1) in reincarnation (metempsychosis), (2) in the plurality of principles in man, or that man had two Souls of separate and quite different natures; one perishable, the Astral Soul, the other incorruptible and immortal; and (3) that the former was not the man whom it represented--"neither his spirit nor his body, but his reflection at best." This was taught by Brahmins, Buddhists, Hebrews, Greeks, Egyptians and Chaldeans; by the post-diluvian heirs of the prediluvian Wisdom, by Pythagoras and Socrates, Clemens Alexandrinus, Synesius, and Origen, the oldest Greek poets as much as the Gnostics, whom Gibbon shows as the most refined, learned and enlightened men of all ages (See "Decline and Fall," etc.). But the rabble was the same in every age: superstitious self-opinionated, materializing every most spiritual and noble idealistic conception and dragging it down to its own low level, and--ever adverse to philosophy.=20 But all this does not interfere with that fact, that our "fifth Race" man, analyzed esoterically as a septenary creature, was ever exoterically recognized as mundane, sub-mundane, terrestrial and supra mundane, Ovid graphically describing him as--=20 Bis duo sunt hominis; manes, caro, spiritus, umbra=20 Quatuor ista loca bis duo suscipiunt.=20 Terra tegit carnem, tumulum circumvolat umbra,=20 Orcus habet manes, spiritus estra petit. Ostende, Oct., 1886.=20 PATH, November, 1886=20 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= - ---- l See charge and answer, in Theosophist, August, 1882.=20 t=20 2The cycle of existence during the manvantara--period before and after the beginning and completion of which every such "monad" is absorbed and reabsorbed in the ONE soul, anima mundi.=20 3 Hades has surely never been meant for Hell It was always the abode of the sorrowing shadows of astral bodies of the dead personalities. Western readers should remember Kama-loka is not Karma-loka, for Kama means desire, and Karma does not.=20 4 Had this word "immediate" been put at the time of publishing Isis between the two words "no" and "reincarnation" there would have been less room for dispute and controversy.=20 5 By "sphere above," of course "Devachan" was meant.=20 t=20 6 The reader must bear in mind that the esoteric teaching maintains that save in cases of wickedness when man's nature attains the acme of Evil, and human terrestrial sin reaches Satanic universal character, so to say as som= e Sorcerers do there is no punishment hr the majority of mankind after death. The law of retribution as Karma awaits man at the threshold of his new incarnation. Mall is at best a wretched tool of evil, unceasingly forming new causes and circumstances. He is not always (if ever) responsible. Hence a period of rest and bliss in Devachan, with an utter temporary oblivion of all the miseries and sorrows of life. Avitchi is a spiritual state of the greatest misery and is only in store for those who have devoted consciously their lives to doing injury to others and have thus reached its highest spirituality of EVIL.=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D * The following "Important Correction," by Mme. Blavatsky, and editorial note by Mr. Judge, appeared in the Path for January, 1887.=20 TO ALL THE READERS OF THE PATH:=20 In the November number of Path in my article "Theories about Reincarnation and Spirits," the entire batch of elaborate arguments is upset and made to fall flat owing to the mistake of either copyist or printer. On page 235, the last paragraph is made to begin with these words: "Therefore the reincarnating principles are left behind in Kama-loka, etc.," whereas it ought to read "Therefore the NON-reincarnating principles (the false personality) are left behind in Kama-loka, etc.," a statement fully corroborated by what follows, since it is stated that those principles fade out and disappear.=20 There seems to be some fatality attending this question. The spiritualists will not fail to see in it the guiding hand of their dear departed ones fro= m "Summerland", and I am inclined to share that belief with them in so far that there must be some mischievous spook between me and the printing of my articles, Unless immediately corrected and attention drawn to it, this erro= r is one which is sure to be quoted some day against me and called a contradiction.=20 Yours truly,=20 H. P. BLAVATSKY November 20th, 1886.=20 NOTE.--The MS. for the article referred to was written out by some one for Mme. Blavatsky and forwarded to us as it was printed, and it is quite evident that the error was the copyist's, and not ours nor Madame's; beside= s that, the remainder of the paragraph clearly shows a mistake. We did not feel justified in making such an important change on our own responsibility= , but are now glad to have the author do it herself. Other minor errors probably also can be found in consequence of the peculiar writing of the amanuensis, but they are very trivial in their nature.--[ED. Path] =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 7 Says Apuleius: "The soul is born in this world upon leaving the soul of the world (anima mundi) in which her existence precedes the one we all know (on earth). Thus, the Gods who consider her proceedings in all the phases o= f various existences and as a whole, punish her sometimes for sins committed during an anterior life. She dies when she separates herself from a body in which she crossed this life as in a frail bark. And this is, if I mistake not, the secret meaning of the tumulary inscription, so simple for the initiate: "To the Gods manes who lived." But this kind of death does not annihilate the soul, it only transforms (one portion of it) it into a lemure. "Lemures" are the manes. or ghosts, which we know under the name lares. When they keep away and shows a beneficent protection, we honour in them the protecting divinities of the family hearth; but if their crimes sentence them to err, we call them 1arv=E6. They become a plague for the wicked, and the vain terror of the good." ("Du Dieu de Socrate" Apul. class= , pp. 143-145.) =20 8 "The cause of reincarnation is ignorance"--therefore there is "reincarnation" once the writer explained the causes of it.=20 9 A proof of how our theosophical teachings have taken root in every class of Society and even in English literature may be seen by reading Mr. Norman Pearson's article "Before Birth" in the Nineteenth Century for August, 1886= . Therein, theosophical ideas and teachings are speculated upon without acknowledgement or the smallest reference to theosophy, and among others, w= e see with regard to the author's theories on the Ego the following: "How muc= h of the individual personality is supposed to go to heaven or hell? Does the whole of the mental equipment, good and bad, noble qualities and unholy passions, follow the soul to its hereafter? Surely not. But if not, and something has to be stripped off, how and when are we to draw the line? If, on the other hand, the Soul is something distinct from all our mental equipment, except the sense of self, are we not confronted by the incomprehensible notion of a personality without any attributes?"=20 To this query the author answers as any true theosophist would: "The difficulties of the question ready spring from a misconception of the true nature of these attributes. The components of our mental equipment--appetites, aversions, feelings, tastes and qualities generally--are not absolute but relative existences. Hunger and thirst for instance are states of consciousness which arise in response to the stimuli of physical necessities. They are not inherent elements of the soul and wil= l disappear or become modified, etc." (pp. 356 and 357). In other words, the theosophical doctrine is adopted, Atma and Buddhi having culled off the Manas the aroma of the personality or human soul--go into Devachan; while the lower principles, the astral simulacrum or false personality void of it= s Divine monad or spirit, will remain in the Kamaloka--the "Summerland." =20 10 Nirmanakaya is the name given to the astral forms (in their completeness= ) of adepts, who have progressed too high on the path of knowledge and absolute truth, to go into the state of Devachan: and have, on the other hand, deliberately refused the bliss of nirvana, in order to help Humanity by invisibly guiding and helping on the same path of progress elect men. Bu= t these astrals are not empty shells, but complete monads made up of the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th principles. There is another order of nirmanakaya, however, of which much will be said in the Secret Doctrine.--H.P.B.=20 11 Placing these parallel with the division in esoteric teaching we see tha= t (1) Osiris is Atma; (2) Sa is Buddhi; (3) Akh is Manas; (4) Khou is Kama-rupa, the seat of terrestrial desires; (5) Khaba is Lingha Sarira; (6) Kha is Pranatma (vital principle); (7) Sah is mummy or body. 12 Because they drove the enemies away.=20 13 From manus--"good," an antiphrasis, as Festus explains.=20 =20 14 Page 12, Vol. 1, of Isis Unveiled, belief in reincarnation is asserted from the very beginning, as forming part and parcel of universal beliefs. "Metempsychosis" (or transmigration of souls) and reincarnation being after all the same thing. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D SOUIRCE IS Ostende, Oct., 1886.=20 PATH, New York, November, 1886=20 Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 -----Original Message----- From: Kees [mailto:keesvoorhoeve@planet.nl]=20 Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 10:15 AM To: study@blavatsky.net Subject: [bn-study] Re: THEORIES ABOUT REINCARNATION AND SPIRITS H P B Hello Dallas, This is indeed a very interesting article. It is very helpful to me for my lectures.(See my post on Sun, 29 Jan 2006 04:44:27 -0800) Can you tell me where you found it? In the Collected Writings? Most sincerely, Kees=20 - From silva_cass@yahoo.com Mon Jan 30 19:58:27 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: silva_cass@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75724 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2006 03:58:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2006 03:58:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.37) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2006 03:58:24 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jan 2006 03:57:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jan 2006 03:57:33 -0000 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 03:57:33 -0000 To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.37 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:7:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 211.28.165.96 From: "Kathy" Subject: The Uncreated Universe X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=203519531; y=RkTGsyTopN1uxSjR2G5oddfbAuPM3cR-JCbeTO6_kq-4s4EBmA X-Yahoo-Profile: silva_cass http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/vstenger/Found/06Cosmic.pdf From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Jan 31 03:06:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38928 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2006 11:06:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2006 11:06:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.67) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2006 11:06:27 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.217] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1F3tAg-0004zF-Vq; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 05:55:39 -0500 To: "'Theosophy Study List'" Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 02:55:20 -0800 Message-ID: <000001c62654$da79c6c0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79e4095a327b97b9dd948b6b174ef669fa350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.67 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: Memory / Non-memory modes X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=nY2XhNPXvG_lcf8BTrTMKfBL0O0VL7djTlslQS9cLDIWOw X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 -----Original Message----- From: zakk=20 Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 3:19 PM To: Theosophy Study List Subject: Re: Memory / Non-memory modes 1 A question is posed : Does intelligence and mind reference the exact same experience / subject matter? If not, what would be the differences and the meaning of each? If so, what would be the meaning represented by the interchangable terms? 2 >OK, but I would humbly submit that memory is brain dependent with the caveat that "brain" can be physical, astral, mental, or causal.> The "brain", as it has been used, is the physical organ of a physical body. Memory is not dependent upon this physical tool. Memory is impressions made upon matter, or some may state stored information. The brain is a tool in which to recollect the stored information, it is not memory itself and therefore memory is not brain dependent. SNIP =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 1/31/2006 2:42 AM Consider these Theosophical teachings: =09=09 MIND =E2=80=93 MANAS -- INTELLECT -- THOUGHT.DOC IS THE MIND FREE or BOUND -- to LEARN -- to PRACTISE -- to TEAC= H ? ARE THERE LIMITS TO THE RANGE OR DEPTH OF THOUGHT ? WHAT IS THE NATURE OF PARADOX ? [Ex: Moebus strip, Klein jar. ] NATURE & QUALITIES OF MIND-BEING ? IS =E2=80=9CSOUL=E2=80=9D A SYNONYM FOR MIND ? =E2=80=9CSoul=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9CTheosophists have got into the habit of usi= ng the words "Self" and "Ego" as synonymous, of associating the term "Self"= with only man's higher individual or even personal "Self" or Ego, whereas = this term ought never to be applied except to the One universal Self.=E2=80= =9D Key 174-5 WHAT IS =E2=80=9CSPIRIT ?=E2=80=9D [ Universal perfection -- omniprese= nt ] [ in every man and every life-atom ] WHAT ARE : LIFE ? PURPOSE ?=20=20 [ Spiritualizing Matter through practical virtue ]=20 WHAT IS THE RELATION OF SOUL TO SPIRIT ? [ =E2=80=9CSon=E2=80=9D to =E2=80= =9CFather.=E2=80=9D ] =E2=80=9CPatanjali in his YOGA SUTRAS, indicates that "the Universe exists for the Soul's experience and emancipation." (Pat, pp. 25, 26.) He also indicates that the Soul, when in a body, is conjoined with "the organ of thought" (the brain-mind). Pat, pp. 25, 26. =20=20=20 Atma the inseparable ray of the Universal THE HIGHER and ONE SELF. It is the God above, more SELF is { than within, us. Happy the man who=20 succeeds in saturating his inner Ego with it!=09=20 Key p. 175 =E2=80=9CParabrahm (the One Reality, the Absolute) is the field of Absolute= Consciousness, i.e., that Essence which is out of all relation to conditio= ned existence, and of which conscious existence is a conditioned symbol. Bu= t once that we pass in thought from this (to us) Absolute Negation, duality= supervenes in the contrast of Spirit (or consciousness) and Mater, Subject= and Object.=E2=80=9D Secret Doctrine Vol I, Proem page 15.. =E2=80=9CSpirit (or Consciousness) and Matter are, however, to be regarded,= not as independent realities, but as the two facets or aspects of the Abso= lute (Parabrahm), which constitute the basis of conditioned Being whether s= ubjective or objective.... just as pre-Cosmic Ideation is the root of all i= ndividual consciousness, so pre-Cosmic Substance is the substratum of matte= r in the various grades of its differentiation.=E2=80=9D -- -Secret Doctri= ne Vol I, Proem page 15. "There is not one finger's breadth (ANGULA) of void Space in the whole Boun= dless (Universe)..."=20 S D I 289 "Consciousness is ONE throughout the Universe - in man and matter, element = and forces." Theosophy, Vol. 17, p. 287 WHY IS HUMANITY SO VARIED AS INDIVIDUALS, YET SO UNIFORM AS TO FACULTIES ? [ Union of Mind and Desire / personal natures ] CAN EMOTIONS BE SEPARATED FROM MIND and THOUGHT PROCESSES ?=20 [ Yes -- they are irrational and ultimately self-destructive]=20 DOES THE FACULTY OF ATTENTION BEAR ON LEARNING ? DOES =E2=80=9CWILL=E2=80=99 BEAR ON LEARNING? WHAT IS =E2=80=9CWILL ?=E2= =80=9D ARE OUR MEMORIES ALTERED OR MODIFIED BY OUR =E2=80=9CINTERESTS ?=E2=80=9D=20 ARE INTERESTS EMOTIONS, DESIRES, PASSIONS ?=20=20 WHAT ARE =E2=80=9CPASSIONS AND DESIRES=E2=80=9D TO BE CLASSIFIED AS ? DO THEY OBEY THE SAME RULES AS EITHER =E2=80=9CSPIRIT=E2=80=9D OR =E2=80=9C= MIND=E2=80=9D ? FACT -- or DELUSION -- VEIL ? VERIFICATION OF INFORMATION ? ACCURACY -- HONESTY=20=20 TRANSFER OF MEANING -- what is =E2=80=9CMEANING ?=E2=80=9D MEANING [like DATA] has VALUE if TRUE and ACCURATE in reporting. WORDS CAN BE INACCURATE -- but, CAN LEAD TO TRUTH THROUGH UNDERSTANDING. What adjustments have to be made? By whom ? KNOWLEDGE OF LAW can give an approximate verification leading to TRUTH if a= pplied.=20 ALL TRANSFER OF KNOWLEDGE IS SYMBOLICAL. Direct mind to mind transfer is r= are.=20 SYMBOLS TO BE USEFUL MUST HAVE UNIVERSAL ACCEPTANCE -- LAW ? HOW TO VERIFY LAW ? UNIVERSAL -- IMPERSONAL -- TIMELESS --=20=20 IS UNIVERSE LIMITED ?=20 Has UNIVERSE A PURPOSE ? "At the commencement of a great Manvantara [ great cycle of evolution ], Pa= rabrahm [ the ABSOLUTE ] manifests as Mulaprakriti [ root-matter ] and then= as the Logos ["Word"=E2=80=94thought--plan ]. This Logos is equivalent to = the "Unconscious Universal Mind," etc., of Western Pantheists. It constitu= tes the Basis of the Subject-side of manifested Being, and is the source of= all manifestations of individual consciousness. Mulaprakriti or Primordial Cosmic Substance, is the foundation of the OBJEC= T-side of things--the basis of all objective evolution and Cosmogenesis. Force, then, does not emerge with Primordial Substance from Parabrahmic Lat= ency. It is the transformation into energy of the supra-conscious thought = of the Logos, infused, so to speak, into the objectivization of the latter = out of potential latency in the One Reality.=20=20 Hence spring the wondrous laws of matter...Force succeeds Mulaprakriti; bu= t, minus Force, Mulaprakriti is for all practical intents and purposes non-= existent." SD II 24-5=09 Do Man=E2=80=99s COGNITIVE FACULTIES INDICATE PURPOSE for himself and Unive= rse ?=20 =E2=80=9CKNOWLEDGE IS POWER. IGNORANCE IS FEAR.=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9CI THINK, THEREFORE I AM.=E2=80=9D --- Descartes "Self-consciousness belongs alone to man and proceeds from the Self, the hi= gher Manas."=20=20=20 HPB ART, Vol. II, p. 9 NO MAN THINKS EXACTLY AS ANOTHER. Why? FACULTY OF COGNITION AND RATIOCINATION HAS DEGREES BUT IS PRESENT IN ALL.=20 ENTITY: WITNESS -- OBSERVER -- PERCEIVER --=20=20 "MANAS...THE INNER OR HIGHER "EGO" ... The "Fifth Principle, so-called, ind= ependently of Buddhi. The Mind-Principle is only the Spiritual Ego when me= rged into and one with Buddhi,--no materialist being supposed to have in hi= m such an Ego, however great his intellectual capacities. It is the perman= ent Individuality or the "Reincarnating Ego." ("The human Ego is neither At= man nor Buddhi, but the higher Manas...Karana Sarira (the "causal body") on= the plane of the Sutratma (thread soul), which is the golden thread on whi= ch, like beads, the various personalities of the Ego are strung." (SD II 7= 9) "HIGHER EGO"...it is the higher Manas illuminated by Buddhi, [Taijasi] the = principle of self-consciousness, the "I-am-I"...the Karana Sarira, the immo= rtal man which passes from one incarnation to another." ( see Trans. p. 63)= Key p. 176 =E2=80=9CThe Soul (Higher Manas) "is the PERCEIVER; is vision itself pure = and simple; and looks directly upon ideas." Pat. p. 26, DISCRIMINATOR [ faculties ] CHOOSER [ memory -- analogy -- comparison -- correspondence -- [ forgetting -- recollection -- reminiscence The "Perceiver" within, takes notice of. It then makes choices. In ancient Hindu philosophy the ten "senses" are called "Indriyas." There are five senses whereby knowledge is attained (Jnana-Indriyas), and a second five, through which action is performed (Karma-Indriyas). These are the "five roots producing Life Eternal." In Buddhism they are looked on as positive agents producing the "qualities." [T. Glossary, p. 155.] WILL A power we self-apply to memory, logic, attention, meaning. ACTION, IMAGINATION [ MENTAL & PSYCHIC IMAGES & ADJUSTMENTS ] ACTION [ PHYSICAL] "...the direction to perform actions and yet renounce their performance...t= he real actor is the mind, that acts...are the thoughts themselves...Duty, = and the final imperative--the "what ought I to do"--comes in here and becom= es a part of the process. (discrimination to be applied)...true meditation = is (thus) begun and will soon become permanent...[will acquire] a concentra= tion in time which will increase the real power of meditation. It is not m= editation to stare at a spot on the wall for a fixed period, or to remain f= or another space of time in a perfectly vacuous mental state which soon run= s into sleep...many students have run after these follies, ignoring the tru= e way.=20=20 The truth is, that the right method is not easy; it requires thought and m= ental effort, with persistence and faith...It will all depend on self-maste= ry. The self below will continually drag down the man who is not self-conq= uered...on the other side, the self is near to divinity, and when conquered= it becomes the friend and helper of the conqueror...Every effort we make i= n (intentness upon the Supreme Spirit)...will be preserved in the inner nat= ure and cannot be lost at death. It is a spiritual gain..." Gita Notes, pp= 127-130 "A perfect man is not made to order but is a product of evolution. Wisdom = is not a matter of book-learning but of growth. General rules for conduct = can be given, but to apply them properly, the power of discrimination is ne= cessary...A virtue, practiced without moderation, becomes a crime. To know= how to find the point of equilibrium is the great secret of the Adept, tha= t cannot be told but must be learned by experience, when sagacity and goodn= ess will be united in wisdom." HPB =E2=80=93 THEOSOPHY V. 47- PP. 441-2 -- THEOSOPHIST 1885 MANAS [ ENTITY OR FACULTY ? ] [ internal workings ] "The action of the entire universe is but a detailed manifestation and exam= ple of the action of mind on matter, governed at the highest point by the a= ction of the universal Mind. Between the finite human mind of the ordinary= uninitiated individual and this universal mind lie an infinite number of g= radually ascending degrees, and the higher the plane of consciousness the n= earer is the approach to the universal mind which is, as it were, the main-= spring of the whole. Although there are no hard and fast lines in nature y= et these various grades may be marked off into great main divisions; and i= t is the successive attainment of these, one after the other that is repres= ented by the degrees of initiation. When one plane of existence has been e= xhausted, there is needed, as it were, a fresh impulse to enable us to go o= n higher and this it is that is supplied at the time of initiation." "Alpha" Theosophist, June 1886 - [ ULT- T A & N p. 61 ] Here, then, we have Manas (or the Soul in general) in its two aspects: wh= en attaching itself to Anoia (our Kama rupa, or the "Animal Soul" in "Esote= ric Buddhism"), it runs towards entire annihilation, as far as the personal= Ego is concerned; when allying itself to the Nous (Atma-Buddhi) it merges= into the immortal, imperishable Ego, and then its spiritual consciousness = of the personal that was, becomes immortal." Key 93 "...the Manasa Devas who endowed man with the consciousness of his immortal= soul: that consciousness which hinders man "from foreseeing death," and m= akes him know he is immortal. ( Fn.: -- The monad of the animal is as immortal as that of man, yet the = brute knows nothing of this; it lives an animal life of sensation just as = the first human would have lived, when attaining physical development in th= e Third Race, had it not been for the Agnishwatta, and the Manasa Pitris.")= [Myth of Prometheus, further explained.] SD II 525 THINKING / FORGETTING / RECOLLECTING LOGIC MATHEMATICS RULES & LAWS THOUGHTS DETAILED / VAGUE=20 IMAGINATION CREATOR or CREATED ?=20 FANCY WILL=09=09 EXPRESSION [ externalizing ] [ communication ] =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D PERCEPTION [ in-coming impressions ]=20 AWARENESS COGNITION ANALYSIS SYNTHESIS =09 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D LOWER MANAS [KAMA MANAS]=20=20=20 [Desire-mind. Usually false and untruthful.] [ Exists only for this life. Limited by personal desires. ] [ Link between HIGHER MANAS and the Personality and Physical Body ] "The whole individuality is centred in the three middle Principles or third= (MANAS), and fifth (ASTRAL BODY) principles. During earthly life it is al= l in the fourth (KAMA-MANAS), the center of energy, volition--will...the in= dividuality survives...to run its seven-fold and upward course [ it ] has t= o assimilate to itself the eternal-life power residing but in the seventh (= ATMA), and then blend the three (4th, 5th & 7th) into one--the 6th (BUDDHI)= . Those who succeed in doing so become Buddhas, Dhyan Chohans, etc... The= chief object of our struggle and initiations is to achieve this union whil= e yet on this earth." M L 77-8 "One has to die in chrestos, i.e., kill one's personality and its passions,= to blot out every idea of separateness from one's "Father," the Divine Spi= rit in man' to become one with the eternal and absolute Life and Light (SAT= ) before one can reach the glorious state of Christos, the regenerated man,= the man in spiritual freedom." HPB ARTICLES III 190 fn "...Christ--the true esoteric Saviour--is no man, but the Divine Principle = in every human being. He who (169) strives to resurrect the Spirit crucifi= ed in him by his own terrestrial passions, and buried deep in the "sepulche= r" of his sinful flesh; he who has the strength to roll back the stone of = matter from the door of his own inner sanctuary, he has the risen Christ in= him. The "Son of Man" is no child of the bond-woman--flesh, but verily of= the free-woman--Spirit, the child of man's own deeds, and the fruit of his= own spiritual labour."=20=20 HPB ARTICLES III 168-9 "Most of us believe in the survival of the Spiritual Ego, in Planetary Spir= its and Nirmanakayas, those great Adepts of the past ages, who, renouncing = their right to Nirvana, remain in our spheres of being, not as "spirits" bu= t as complete spiritual human Beings. Save their corporeal, visible envelo= pe, which they leave behind, they remain as they were, in order to help poo= r humanity, as far as can be done without sinning against Karmic law.=20=20 This is the "Great Renunciation," indeed; an incessant, conscious self-sac= rifice throughout aeons and ages till that day when the eyes of blind manki= nd will open and, instead of the few, all will see the universal truth. = =20 These Beings may well be regarded as God and Gods--if they would but allow = the fire in our hearts, at the thought of that purest of all sacrifices, to= be fanned into the flame of adoration, or the smallest altar in their hono= r. But they will not. Verily, "the secret heart is fair Devotion's (only)= temple," and any other in this case, would be no better than profane osten= tation." HPB ARTICLES III 204 "...unless the higher Self or Ego gravitates towards its Sun--the Monad--th= e lower Ego, or personal Self, will have the upper hand in every case. For= it is this Ego, with its fierce selfishness and animal desire to live a Se= nseless life (Tanha), which is the "maker of the tabernacle," as Buddha cal= ls it in Dhammapada..." SD II 110 HIGHER MANAS [BUDDHI MANAS] [ Virtuous truthful MIND ] [ reincarnating entity =E2=80=93 immortal ] [ Link between Personality and INDIVIDUAL SPIRIT ] "...[the Agnishwatta Pitris] were destined to incarnate as the Egos of the = forthcoming crop of Mankind. The human Ego is neither Atman nor Buddhi, bu= t the higher Manas: the intellectual fruition and the efflorescence of the= intellectual self-conscious Egotism--in the higher spiritual sense. The a= ncient works refer to it as Karana Sarira on the plane of the Sutratma, whi= ch is the golden thread on which, like beads, the various personalities of = this higher Ego are strung...these beings were returning Nirvanees, from pr= eceding Maha-Manvantaras--ages of incalculable duration..." S D II 79 "...the "Ego" in man is a monad that has gathered to itself innumerable exp= eriences through aeons of time, slowly unfolding its latent potencies throu= gh plane after plane of matter. It is hence called the "eternal pilgrim." The Manasic, or mind principle, is cosmic and universal. It is the creato= r of all forms, and the basis of all law in nature. Not so with consciousn= ess. Consciousness is a condition of the monad as a result of embodiment i= n matter and the dwelling in a physical form. Self-consciousness, which fr= om the animal plane looking upward is the beginning of perfection, from the= divine plane looking downwards is the perfection of selfishness and the cu= rse of separateness. it is the "world of illusion" that man has created fo= r himself. "Maya is the perceptive faculty of every Ego which considers it= self a Unit, separate from and independent of the One Infinite and Eternal = Sat or 'be-ness'," (SD I 329) The "eternal pilgrim" must therefore mount h= igher, and flee from the plane of self-consciousness it has struggled so ha= rd to reach." WQJ Art I 29 =E2=80=9C=E2=80=A6 man's spirit while not individual per se, yet preserves = its distinct individuality in Paranirvana, owing to the accumulation in it = of the aggregates, or skandhas that have survived after each death, from th= e highest faculties of the Manas. The most spiritual--i.e., the highest an= d divinest aspirations of every personality follow Buddhi and the Seventh P= rinciple into Devachan (Swarga) after the death of the Monad...the individu= ality of the spirit-soul...is preserved to the end of the great cycle (Maha= -Manwantara) when each Ego enters Paranirvana, or is merged in Parabrahm...= however long the "night of Brahma" or even the Universal Pralaya...yet, whe= n it ends, the same individual Divine Monad resumes its majestic path of ev= olution, though on a higher, hundredfold perfected and more pure chain of e= arths (266) than before, and brings with it all the essence of compound spi= ritualities from its previous countless rebirths." HPB ARTICLES III 265-6 INTUITION [sense of virtue, law and truth ] DISCRIMINATION [ true / false, personal vs. equality of brotherhood ]=20 COGNITION AND APPLICATION OF LAW -- IMPERSONAL -- UNIVERSAL "... SPIRITUAL SOUL OR BUDDHI, in close union with Manas, the mind-principl= e, without which it is no Ego at all, but only the Atmic Vehicle. (passive = agent)..."Buddhi becomes conscious by the accretions it gets from Manas aft= er every new incarnation an death of man." (SD I 244) [see HPB Art. III, = 265 ] Key p. 176 "BUDDHI...The faculty of cognizing the channel through which divine knowled= ge reaches the Ego, the discernment of good and evil, "divine consciousness= ," "Spiritual Soul," the vehicle of Atma." SD I xix [see also SD I 1= 7 119, 244, 570, 453; Key 175-6]=20=09 "AVALOKITESVARA..."When Buddhi absorbs our Egotism (destroys it) with all i= ts Vikharas [qualities, or attractions-TM 11-p. 23], Avalokitesvara [SD I-1= 08, II-178, Glos. 44, ML 90] becomes manifested to us, and Nirvana, or Muk= ti is reached...freedom from the trammels of Maya or illusion." SD I xix = [see SD I xxi, 7, 132 II 615 Glos 211, 218, 232; ] SOME QUOTES =E2=80=93 THEOSOPHY TEACHES: "The whole individuality is centred in the three middle Principles or third= (MANAS), and fifth (ASTRAL BODY) principles. During earthly life it is al= l in the fourth (KAMA-MANAS), the center of energy, volition--will...the in= dividuality survives...to run its seven-fold and upward course [ it ] has t= o assimilate to itself the eternal-life power residing but in the seventh (= ATMA), and then blend the three (4th, 5th & 7th) into one--the 6th (BUDDHI)= . Those who succeed in doing so become Buddhas, Dhyan Chohans, etc... The= chief object of our struggle and initiations is to achieve this union whil= e yet on this earth." M L 77-8 "Every form on earth and every speck (atom) in Space strives in its efforts= towards self-formation to follow the model placed for it in the "Heavenly = Man"...Its [atom's] involution and evolution, its external and internal gro= wth and development, have all one and the same object--man; man is the hig= hest physical and ultimate form on this earth; the MONAD in the absolute t= otality and awakened condition--as the culmination of the divine incarnatio= ns on Earth." S D I 183 PERFECTION THROUGH VIRTUE BUDDHIST TEACHINGS : - HPB =E2=80=9CNotwithstanding widespread misconceptions and errors =E2=80= =A6 Orientalists agree that the Buddha=E2=80=99s foremost aim was to lead h= uman beings to salvation by teaching them to practice the greatest purity a= nd virtue, and by detaching them from the service of this illusionary world= , and the love of one=E2=80=99s still more illusionary =E2=80=94 because so= evanescent and unreal =E2=80=94 body and physical self. And what is the good of a virtuous life, full of privations and suffer= ing, if the only result of it is to be annihilation at the end? If even th= e attainment of that supreme perfection which leads the Initiate to remembe= r the whole series of his past lives, and to foresee that of the future one= s, by the full development of that inner, divine eye in him, and to acquire= the knowledge that unfolds the causes 1 of the ever-recurring cycles of ex= istence, brings him finally to non-being, and nothing more =E2=80=94 then = the whole system is idiotic, and Epicureanism is far more philosophical tha= n such Buddhism. He who is unable to comprehend the subtle, and yet so potent, differen= ce between existence in a material or physical state and a purely spiritual= existence =E2=80=94 Spirit or =E2=80=9CSoul-life=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 will n= ever appreciate at their full value the grand teachings of the Buddha, even= in their exoteric form. Individual or personal existence is the cause of = pains and sorrows; collective and impersonal life-eternal is full of divine= bliss and joy for ever, with neither causes nor effects to darken its ligh= t. And the hope for such a life-eternal is the keynote of the whole of Bud= dhism.=20=20 If we are told that impersonal existence is no existence at all, but a= mounts to annihilation, as was maintained by some French reincarnationists,= then we would ask: What difference can it make in the spiritual perceptio= ns of an Ego whether he enter Nirv=C4=81na loaded with the recollections on= ly of his own personal lives =E2=80=94 tens of thousands according to the m= odern reincarnationists =E2=80=94 or whether merged entirely in the Parabra= hmic state, it becomes one with the All, with the absolute knowledge and th= e absolute feeling of representing collective humanities?=20=20 Once that an Ego lives only ten distinct individual lives he must nece= ssarily lose his one self, and become mixed up =E2=80=94 merged, so to say = =E2=80=94 with these ten selves. It really seems that so long as this grea= t mystery remains a dead letter to the world of Western thinkers, and espec= ially to the Orientalists, the less the latter undertake to explain it, the= better for Truth. Of all the existing religious Philosophies, Buddhism is the least unde= rstood. The Lassens, Webers, Wassilyev, the Burnoufs and Juliens, and even= such =E2=80=9Ceye-witnesses=E2=80=9D of Tibetan Buddhism as Csoma de K=C3= =B6r=C3=B6s and the Schlagintweits, have hitherto only added perplexity to = confusion. None of these has ever received his information from a genuine = Gelugpa source: all have judged Buddhism from the bits of knowledge picked = up at Tibetan frontier lamaseries, in countries thickly populated by Bhutan= ese and Lepchas, B=C3=B6ns, and red-capped Dugpas, along the line of the Hi= m=C4=81layas. Hundreds of volumes purchased from Buriats, Shamans, and Chi= nese Buddhists, have been read and translated, glossed and misinterpreted a= ccording to invariable custom.=20=20 Esoteric Schools would cease to be worthy of their name were their lit= erature and doctrines to become the property of even their profane co-relig= ionists =E2=80=94 still less of the Western public. =E2=80=A6. It is quite true that the primitive Sr=C4=81vakas (listeners or hearer= s) and the Sramanas (the =E2=80=9Cthought-restrainers=E2=80=9D and the =E2= =80=9Cpure=E2=80=9D) have degenerated, and that many Buddhist sects have fa= llen into mere dogmatism and ritualism.=20=20 Like every other Esoteric, half-suppressed teaching, the words of the = Buddha convey a double meaning, and every sect has gradually come to claim = to be the only one knowing the correct meaning, and thus to assume supremac= y over the rest. Schism has crept in, and has fastened, like a hideous can= cer, on the fair body of early Buddhism.=20=20 N=C4=81g=C4=81rjuna=E2=80=99s Mah=C4=81y=C4=81na (=E2=80=9CGreat Vehic= le=E2=80=9D) School was opposed by the H=C4=ABnay=C4=81na (or =E2=80=9CLitt= le Vehicle=E2=80=9D) System, and even the Yogachary=C4=81 of Ary=C4=81sanga= became disfigured by the yearly pilgrimage from India to the shores of Man= sarovara, of hosts of vagabonds with matted locks who play at being Yogins = and Fakirs, preferring this to work. An affected detestation of the world,= and the tedious and useless practice of the counting of inhalations and ex= halations as a means to produce absolute tranquillity of mind or meditation= , have brought this school within the region of Hatha-Yoga, and have made i= t heir to the Br=C4=81hmanical T=C4=ABrthikas. And though its Srot=C4=81pa= tti, its Sakrid=C4=81g=C4=81min, An=C4=81g=C4=81min, and Arhats,2 bear the = same names in almost every school, yet the doctrines of each differ greatly= , and none of these is likely to gain real Abhij=C3=B1as (the supernatural = abnormal five powers). One of the chief mistakes of the Orientalists when judging on =E2=80= =9Cinternal(?) evidence,=E2=80=9D as they express it, was that they assumed= that the Pratyeka-Buddhas, the Bodhisattvas, and the =E2=80=9CPerfect=E2= =80=9D Buddhas were a later development of Buddhism. For on these three chief degrees are based the seven and twelve degree= s of the Hierarchy of Adeptship. The first are those who have attained the= Bodhi (wisdom) of the Buddhas, but do not become Teachers.=20=20 The human Bodhisattvas are candidates, so to say, for perfect Buddhash= ip (in Kalpas to come), and with the option of using their powers now if ne= ed be.=20=20 =E2=80=9CPerfect=E2=80=9D Buddhas are simply =E2=80=9Cperfect=E2=80=9D= Initiates. All these are men, and not disembodied Beings, as is given out= in the H=C4=ABnay=C4=81na exoteric books. Their correct character may be = found only in the secret volumes of Lugrub or N=C4=81g=C4=81rjuna, the foun= der of the Mah=C4=81y=C4=81na system, who is said to have been initiated by= the N=C4=81gas (fabulous =E2=80=9CSerpents,=E2=80=9D the veiled name for a= n Initiate or Mahatma).=20=20 The fabled report found in Chinese records that N=C4=81g=C4=81rjuna co= nsidered his doctrine to be in opposition to that of Gautama Buddha, until = he discovered from the N=C4=81gas that it was precisely the doctrine that h= ad been secretly taught by S=C4=81kyamuni Himself, is an allegory, and is b= ased upon the reconciliation between the old Br=C4=81hmanical secret School= s in the Him=C4=81layas and Gautama=E2=80=99s Esoteric teachings, both part= ies having at first objected to the rival schools of the other.=20=20 The former, the parent of all others, had been established beyond the = Him=C4=81layas for ages before the appearance of S=C4=81kyamuni. Gautama w= as a pupil of this; and it was with them, those Indian Sages, that He had l= earned the truths of the Sunyata, the emptiness and impermanence of every t= errestrial, evanescent thing, and the mysteries of Praj=C3=B1a-P=C4=81ramit= =C4=81, or =E2=80=9Cknowledge across the River,=E2=80=9D which finally land= s the =E2=80=9CPerfect One=E2=80=9D in the regions of the One Reality.=20=20 But His Arhats were not Himself. Some of them were ambitious, and the= y modified certain teachings after the great councils, and it is on account= of these =E2=80=9Cheretics=E2=80=9D that the Mother-School at first refuse= d to allow them to blend their schools, when persecution began driving away= the Esoteric Brotherhood from India.=20=20 But when finally most of them submitted to the guidance and control of= the chief =C4=80shramas, then the Yogachary=C4=81 of =C4=80ry=C4=81sanga w= as merged into the oldest Lodge. For it is there from time immemorial that= has lain concealed the final hope and light of the world, the salvation of= mankind. Many are the names of that School and land, the name of the latt= er being now regarded by the Orientalists as the mythic name of a fabulous = country. It is from this mysterious land nevertheless, that the Hindu expe= cts his Kalki-Avat=C4=81ra, the Buddhist his Maitreya, the P=C4=81rs=C4=AB = his Saoshyant and the Jew his Messiah, and so would the Christian expect th= ence his Christ =E2=80=94 if he only knew of it. There, and there alone, reigns Parinishpanna (Yong-Gr=C3=BCb), the abs= olutely perfect comprehension of Being and Non-Being, the changeless true E= xistence in Spirit, even while the latter is seemingly still in the body, e= very inhabitant thereof being a Non-Ego because he has become the Perfect E= go. Their voidness is =E2=80=9Cself-existent and perfect=E2=80=9D =E2=80= =94 if there were profane eyes to sense and perceive it =E2=80=94 because i= t has become absolute; the unreal being transformed into conditionless Real= ity, and the realities of this, our world, having vanished in their own nat= ure into thin (non-existing) air.=20=20 The =E2=80=9CAbsolute Truth=E2=80=9D (Don-dampa=E2=80=99i-den pa; Sans= krit: Param=C4=81rthasatya), having conquered =E2=80=9Crelative truth=E2=80= =9D (Kun zab chi-den pa; Sanskrit: Samvritisatya), the inhabitants of the m= ysterious region are thus supposed to have reached the state called in myst= ic phraseology Svasamvedan=C4=81 (the =E2=80=9Cself-analyzing reflection=E2= =80=9D) and Param=C4=81rtha, or that absolute consciousness of the personal= merged into the impersonal Ego, which is above all, hence above illusion i= n every sense.=20=20 Its =E2=80=9CPerfect=E2=80=9D Buddhas and Bodhisattvas may be on every= nimble Buddhist tongue as celestial =E2=80=94 therefore unreachable Beings= , while these names may suggest and say nothing to the dull perceptions of = the European profane. What matters it to Those who, being in this world, y= et live outside and far beyond our illusive earth! Above Them there is but = one class of Nirv=C4=81n=C4=ABs, namely, the Cho-ku (Dharmak=C4=81ya), or t= he Nirv=C4=81n=C4=ABs =E2=80=9Cwithout remains=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 the pure = Arupa, the formless Breaths.3 Thence emerge occasionally the Bodhisattvas in their Tulpa=E2=80=99i-K= u (or Nirm=C4=81nak=C4=81ya) body and, assuming an ordinary appearance, the= y teach men. There are conscious, as well as unconscious, incarnations. = =E2=80=9C=20 [Extracted from Blavatsky: Collected Works, XIV, p. 432-37] H P B=20=20 --------------------------------------------- From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Jan 31 03:15:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 94892 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2006 11:15:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2006 11:15:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.67) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2006 11:15:08 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.217] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1F3tSa-0001Qb-SR; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 06:14:09 -0500 To: "Alice BERTRAND" Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 03:13:55 -0800 Message-ID: <000101c62657$7166ca90$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79bc0ddf04258149c44f2e64af508befb2350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.67 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: CURE OF DISEASES X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=BZvLVScTpzrUVS90FRZjJI3qvrYMUl8gDeBLJDSoKZ8ikA X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/31/2006 3:12 AM Dear Alice: What are your questions? Sorry I am sort of breath Dal =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D From: SYNTHESIS OF OCCULT SCIENCE [WQJ Art I p 23 - 29] NATURE IS ONE WHOLE - NO MISSING LINKS Back of occult science there lies a complete and all-embracing Philosophy. This philosophy is not simply synthetical in its methods, for the simplest as the wildest hypothesis can claim that much; but it is synthesis itself. It regards Nature as one complete whole, and so the student of occultism ma= y stand at either point of observation. He may from the stand-point of Nature's wholeness 24 and completeness follow the process of segregation and differentiation to the minutest atom conditioned in space and time; or, from the phenomenal display of the atom, he may reach forward and upward till the atom becomes an integral part of cosmos, involved in the universal harmony of creation.= =20 The modern scientist may do this incidentally or empirically, but the occultist does it systematically and habitually, and hence philosophically. The modern scientist is confessedly and boastfully agnostic. The occultist is reverently and progressively gnostic.=20 ONE LIFE Modern science recognizes matter as "living" and "dead," "organic" and "inorganic," and "Life" as merely a phenomenon of matter. Occult science recognizes, "foremost of all, the postulate that there is no such thing in Nature as inorganic substances or bodies. Stones, minerals, rocks, and even chemical 'atoms' are simply organic units in profound lethargy. Their coma has an end, and their inertia becomes activity." (Secret Doctrine, Vol. I, p. 626 fn.)=20 Occultism recognizes ONE UNIVERSAL, ALL-PERVADING LIFE. Modern science recognizes life as a special phenomenon of matter, a mere transient manifestation due to temporary conditions. Even logic and analogy ought to have taught us better, for the simple reason that so-called "inorganic" or "dead" matter constantly becomes organic and living, while matter from the organic plane is continually being reduced to the inorganic. How rational and justifiable, then, to suppose that the capacity or "potency" of life is latent in all matter!=20 PRIMORDIAL MATTER The "elements," "atoms," and "molecules" of modern science, partly physical and partly metaphysical, though altogether hypothetical, are, nevertheless, seldom philosophical, for the simple reason that they are regarded solely a= s phenomenal. The Law of Avogadro involved a generalization as to physical structure and number, and the later experiments of Prof. Neumann deduced th= e same law mathematically from the first principles of the mechanical theory of gases, but it remained for Prof. Crookes to perceive the philosophical necessity of a primordial substratum, protyle, and so, as pointed=20 25 out in the Secret Doctrine, to lay the foundations of "Metachemistry"; in other words, a complete philosophy of physics and chemistry that shall take the place of mere hypothesis and empiricism. If one or two generalizations deduced as logical or mathematical necessities from the phenomena of physic= s and chemistry have been able to work such revolutions in the old chemistry, what may we not expect from a complete synthesis that shall grasp universal= s by a law that compasses the whole domain of matter?=20 And yet this complete synthesis has been in the possession of the true occultist for ages.=20 Glimpses of this philosophy have been sufficient to give to minds like Kepler, Descartes, Leibnitz, Kant, Schopenhauer, and, lastly, to Prof. Crookes, ideas that claimed and held the interested attention of the scientific world. While, at certain points, such writers supplement and corroborate each other, neither anywhere nor altogether do they reveal the complete synthesis, for none of them possessed it, and yet it has all along existed.=20 MONADS PERVADE THE UNIVERSE "Let the reader remember these 'Monads' of Leibnitz, every one of which is = a living mirror of the universe, every monad reflecting every other, and compare this view and definition with certain Sanskrit stanzas (Slokas) translated by Sir William Jones, in which it is said that the creative source of the Divine Mind,...'Hidden in a veil of thick darkness, formed mirrors of the atoms of the world, and cast reflection from its own face on every atom'." - S.D., Vol. I, p. 623.=20 SCIENCE IS ANCIENT AND UNIVERSAL It may be humiliating to "Modern Exact Science" and repugnant to the whole of Christendom to have to admit that the Pagans whom they have despised, an= d the "Heathen Scriptures" they long ridiculed or ignored, nevertheless possess a fund of wisdom never dreamed of under Western skies. They have th= e lesson, however, to learn, that Science by no means originated in, nor is i= t confined to, the West, nor are superstition and ignorance confined to the East. =20 It can easily be shown that every real discovery and every important advancement in modern science have already been anticipated centuries ago b= y ancient science and philosophy. It is true that these ancient doctrines hav= e been embodied in=20 26 unknown languages and symbols, and recorded in books inaccessible to wester= n minds till a very recent date.=20 Far beyond all this inaccessibility, however, as a cause preventing these old truths from reaching modern times, has been the prejudice, the scorn an= d contempt of ancient learning manifested by the leaders of modern thought.=20 WISDOM IS OPPOSED BY BIGOTRY AND SCORN=20 Nor is the lesson yet learned that bigotry and scorn are never the mark of wisdom or the harbingers of learning; for still, with comparatively few exceptions, any claim or discussion of these ancient doctrines is met with contempt and scorn.=20 The record has, however, been at least outlined and presented to the world.= =20 As the authors of the Secret Doctrine have remarked, these doctrines may no= t be largely accepted by the present generation, but during the twentieth century they will become known and appreciated.=20=20 METAPHYSICS AND PHILOSOPHY A BASIS The scope and bearing of philosophy itself are hardly yet appreciated by modern thought, because of its materialistic tendency.=20 A complete science of metaphysics and a complete philosophy of science are not yet even conceived of as possible; hence the ancient wisdom by its very vastness has escaped recognition in modern times.=20 That the authors of ancient wisdom have spoken from at least two whole planes of conscious experience beyond that of our ever-day "sense-perception," is to us inconceivable, and yet such is the fact; and why should the modern advocate of evolution be shocked and staggered by suc= h a disclosure? It but justifies his hypothesis and extends its theatre. Is i= t because the present custodians of this ancient learning do not scramble for recognition on the stock exchange, and enter into competition in the marts of the world?=20 If the practical outcome of such competition needed illustration, Mr. Keely might serve as an example. The discoveries of the age are already whole centuries in advance of its ethical culture, and the knowledge that should place still further power in the hands of a few individuals whose ethical code is below, rather than above, that of the ignorant, toiling, suffering masses, could only minister to anarchy and increase oppression.=20 27 SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE AND ETHICS On these higher planes of consciousness the law of progress is absolute; knowledge and power go hand in hand with beneficence to man, not alone to the individual possessors of wisdom, but to the whole human race.=20 The custodians of the higher knowledge are equally by both motive and development almoners of the divine. These are the very conditions of the higher consciousness referred to. The synthesis of occult science becomes, therefore, the higher synthesis of the faculties of man.=20 What matter, therefore, if the ignorant shall scout its very existence, or treat it with ridicule and contempt? Those who know of its existence and wh= o have learned something of its scope and nature can, in their turn, afford t= o smile, but with pity and sorrow at the willing bondage to ignorance and misery that scorns enlightenment and closes its eyes to the plainest truths of experience.=20 Leaving, for the present, the field of physics and cosmogenesis, it may be profitable to consider some of the applications of these doctrines to the functions and life of man. =20 The intellect derived from philosophy=20 is similar to a charioteer; for=20 it is present with our desires, and=20 always conducts them to the beautiful. -- DEMOPHILUS=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 27 II "In reality, as Occult philosophy teaches us, everything which changes is organic; it has the life principle in it, and it has all the potentiality o= f the higher lives. If, as we say, all in nature is an aspect of the one element, and life is universal, how can there be such a thing as an inorganic atom!" (1) Man is a perfected animal, but before he could have reached perfection even on the animal plane, there must have dawned upon him the light of a higher plane.=20 Only the perfected animal can cross the threshold of the next higher, or th= e human plane, and as he does so there shines upon him the ray from the suprahuman plane. Therefore, as the dawn of humanity illumines the animal plane, and as a guiding star lures the Monad to higher consciousness, so th= e dawn of divinity illumines the=20 28 human plane, luring the monad to the supra-human plane of consciousness.=20 This is neither more nor less than the philosophical and metaphysical aspec= t of the law of evolution.=20 Man has not one principle more than the tiniest insect;=20 he is, however, "the vehicle of a fully developed Monad, self-conscious and deliberately following its own line of progress,=20 whereas in the insect, and even the higher animal, the higher triad of principles is absolutely dormant." The original Monad has, therefore, locke= d within it the potentiality of divinity. It is plainly, therefore, a misnome= r to call that process of thought a "Synthetic Philosophy" that deals only with phenomena and ends with matter on the physical plane.=20 These two generalizations of Occult philosophy, endowing every atom with th= e potentiality of life, and regarding every insect or animal as already possessing the potentialities of the higher planes though these powers are yet dormant, add to the ordinary Spencerian theory of evolution precisely that element that it lacks, viz, the metaphysical and philosophical; and, thus endowed, the theory becomes synthetical. The Monad, then, is essentially and potentially the same in the lowest vegetable organism, up through all forms and gradations of animal life to man, and beyond.=20 There is a gradual unfolding of its potentialities from "Monera" to man, an= d there are two whole planes of consciousness, the sixth and the seventh "senses," not yet unfolded to the average humanity. Every monad that is enclosed in a form, and hence limited by matter, becomes conscious on its own plane and in its own degree.=20 CONSCIOUSNESS, therefore, no less than sensitiveness, belongs to plants as well as to animals.=20 SELF-CONSCIOUSNESS belongs to man, because, while embodied in a form, the higher triad of principles,=20 Atma-Buddhi-Manas, is no longer dormant, but active. This activity is, however, far from being fully developed. When this activity has become full= y developed, man will already have become conscious on a still higher plane, endowed with the sixth and the opening of the seventh sense, and will have become a "god" in the sense given to that term by Plato and his followers. 29 In thus giving this larger and completer meaning to the law of evolution, the Occult philosophy entirely eliminates the "missing links" of modern science, and, by giving to man a glimpse of his nature and destiny, not onl= y points out the line of the higher evolution, but puts him in possession of the means of achieving it. The "atoms" and "monads" of the Secret Doctrine are very different from the atoms and molecules of modern science.=20 To the latter these are mere particles of matter endowed with blind force: to the former, they are the "dark nucleoles," and potentially "Gods," conscious and intelligent from their primeval embodiment at the beginning o= f differentiation in the dawn of the Manvantara. There are no longer any hard and fast lines between the "organic" and the "inorganic"; between the "living" and "dead" matter.=20 Every atom is endowed with and moved by intelligence, and is conscious in its own degree, on its own plane of development.=20 This is a glimpse of the One Life that-- Runs through all time, extends through all extent, Lives undivided, operates unspent. It may be conceived that=20 the "Ego" in man is a monad that has gathered to itself innumerable experiences through aeons of time, slowly unfolding its latent potencies through plane after plane of matter. It is hence called the "eternal pilgrim." The Manasic, or mind principle, is cosmic and universal. It is the creator of all forms, and the basis of all law in nature. Not so with consciousness.=20 CONSCIOUSNESS is a condition of the monad as the result of embodiment in matter and the dwelling in a physical form. Self-consciousness, which from the animal plane looking upward is the beginning of perfection, from the divine plane looking downward is the perfection of selfishness and the curs= e of separateness. It is the "world of illusion" that man has created for himself.=20 "MAYA is the perceptive faculty of every Ego which considers itself a Unit, separate from and independent of the One Infinite and Eternal Sat or 'be-ness."=20 The "eternal pilgrim" must therefore mount higher, and flee from the plane of self-consciousness it has struggled so hard to reach. 30 The complex structure that we call "Man" is made up of a congeries of almos= t innumerable "Lives." Not only every microscopic cell of which the tissues are composed, but the molecules and atoms of which these cells are composed= , are permeated with the essence of the "One Life." Every so-called organic cell is known to have its nucleus, a center of finer or more sensitive matter. The nutritive, all the formative and functional processes consist o= f flux and re-flux, of inspiration and expiration, to and from the nucleus. The nucleus is therefore in its own degree and after its kind a "monad" imprisoned in a "form." Every microscopic cell, therefore, has a consciousness and an intelligence of its own, and man thus consists of innumerable "lives." This is but physiological synthesis, logically deduced no less from the known facts in physiology and histology than the logical sequence of the philosophy of occultism. Health of the body as a whole depends on the integrity of all its parts, and more especially upon their harmonious association and cooperation. A diseased tissue is one in which a group of individual cells refuse to cooperate, and wherein is set up discordant action, using less or claiming more than their due share of food or energy. Disease of the very tissue of mans body is neither more nor less than the "sin of separateness." Moreover, the grouping of cells is upon the principle of hierarchies. Smaller groups are subordinate to larger congeries, and these again are subordinate to larger, or to the whole. Ever= y microscopic cell therefore typifies and epitomizes man, as man is an epitom= e of the Universe.=20 As already remarked, the "Eternal Pilgrim," the Alter-Ego in man, is a mona= d progressing through the ages.=20 By right and by endowment the ego is king in the domain of mans bodily life= . It descended into matter in the cosmic process till it reached the mineral plane, and then journeyed upward through the "three kingdoms" till it reached the human plane. The elements of its being, like the cells and molecules of mans body, are groupings of structures accessory or subordinat= e to it. The human monad or Ego is therefore akin to all below it and heir to all above it, linked by indissoluble bonds to spirit and matter, "God" and "Nature."=20 31 The attributes that it gathers, and the faculties that it unfolds, are but the latent and dormant potentialities awaking to conscious life. The tissue cells constitute mans bodily structure, but the order in which they are arranged, the principle upon which they are grouped, constituting the human form, is not simply an evolved shape from the lower animal plane, but an involved principle from a higher plane, an older world, viz, the "Lunar Pitris."=20 "Hanuman the Monkey" antedates Darwin's "missing link" by thousands of millenniums. So also the Manasic, or mind element, with its cosmic and infinite potentialities, is not merely the developed "instinct" of the animal.=20 Mind is the latent or active potentiality of Cosmic Ideation, the essence o= f every form, the basis of every law, the potency of every principle in the universe.=20 Human thought is the reflection or reproduction in the realm of mans consciousness of these forms, laws, and principles.=20 Hence man senses and apprehends nature just as nature unfolds in him. When, therefore, the Monad has passed through the form of the animal ego, involve= d and unfolded the human form,=20 the higher triad of principles awakens from the sleep of ages and over-shadowed by the "Manasa-putra" and built into its essence and substance. How could man epitomize Cosmos if he did not touch it at every point and involve it in every principle? If mans being is woven in the web of destiny, his potencies and possibilities take hold of divinity as the woof and pattern of his boundless life. Why, then, should he grow weary or disheartened? Alas! why should he be degraded, this heir of all things! The peculiarity also of this theology, and in which its transcendency consists, is this, that it does not consider the highest God to be the principle of beings, but the principle of principles, i.e. of deiform processions from itself, all which are eternally rooted in the unfathomable depths of the immensely great source of their existence, and o= f which they may be called supersensuous ramifications and super-luminous blossoms. --Thomas Taylor. Introduction to Mystical Hymns of Orpheus =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =09 THE CURE OF DISEASES MORTAL ills and the needs of the stomach rank next after the instinct of self-preservation among all the subjects which engage the attention of the race. If we do not go on living we cannot do the work we think there is to do; if we remain hungry we will lose the power to work properly or to enjoy= , and at last come to the door of death. From bad or scanty food follows a train of physical ills called generally disease.=20 Disease reaches us also through too much food. So in every direction these ills attack us; even when our feeding is correct and sufficient it is found that we fall a prey because our Karma, settled by ourselves is some previou= s life, ordains that we enter on this one handicapped by the hereditary taint due to the wickedness or or the errors of our fathers and mothers. And the records of science show that the taint in the blood or the lymph may jump over many lives, attacking with virulence some generation distant very far from the source.=20 What wonder, then that the cure of disease is an all-absorbing subject with every one! The Christian knows that it is decreed by Almighty God that He will visit the sins of the fathers upon the children even to the third and fourth generation, and the non-believer sees that by some power in nature the penalty is felt even so far. All of this has given to the schools of mental and so-called "metaphysical" healing a strong pull on the fears, the feelings, the wishes, and the bodie= s of those to whom they address themselves, and especially in the United States. That there is more attention given to the subject in America seems true to those who have been on the other side of the Atlantic and noticed how small is the proportion of people there who know anything about the subject. But in the United States in every town many can be found who know about these schools and practice after their methods. Why it has more hold here can be left to conjecture, as the point under consideration is why it has any hold at all. It is something like patent medicine.=20 Offer a cure to people for their many ills, and they will take it up; offer it cheap, and they will use it; offer it as an easy method, and they will rush for it under certain conditions. Metaphysical healing is easy for some because it declares, first, that no money need be paid to doctors for medicine; second, that medical fluids and drugs may be dispensed with; and third that it is easily learned and practiced. The difficulties that arise out of the necessities of logic are not present for those who never studied it, but are somewhat potent with those who reason correctly; - but that is not usual for the general run of minds. They see certain effects and accept the assumed cause as the right one. But many persons will not even investigate the system, because they think it requires them to postulate th= e non-existence of that which they see before their eyes. The statements quoted from the monthly Christian Science in March PATH are bars in the way of such minds. If they could be induced to just try the method offered for cure, belief might result, for effects indeed often follow. But the popular mind is not in favor of "mind cure," and more prominence is given in the daily papers to cases of death under it than to cures. And very full report= s always appear of a case such as one in March, where "faith curers," in orde= r to restore life, went to praying over the dead body of one of the members o= f a believing family. During a recent tour over this country from the Atlantic to the Pacific and back, I had the opportunity of meeting hundreds of disciples of these schools, and found in nearly all cases that they were not addicted to logic but calmly ignored very plain propositions, satisfied that if cures were accomplished the cause claimed must be the right one, and almost without exception they denied the existence of evil or pain or suffering.=20 There was a concurrence of testimony from all to show that the dominant ide= a in their minds was the cure of their bodily ills and the continuance of health. The accent was not on the beauty of holiness or the value to them and the community of a right moral system and right life, but on the cure o= f their diseases. So the conclusion has been forced home that all these schools exist because people desire to be well more than they desire to be good, although they do not object to goodness if that shall bring wholeness= . And, indeed, one does not have to be good to gain the benefit of the teachings. It is enough to have confidence, to assert boldly that this does not exist and that that has no power to hurt one. I do not say the teachers of the "science" agree with me herein, but only that whether you are good o= r bad the results will follow the firm practice of the method enjoined, irrespective of the ideas of the teachers. For in pure mind-cure as compared with its congener "Christian Science," yo= u do not have to believe in Jesus and the gospels, yet the same results are claimed, for Jesus taught that whatever you prayed for with faith, that you should have. Scientific research discloses that the bodies of our race are infected with taints that cause nearly all of our diseases, and school after school of medicine has tried and still tries to find the remedy that will dislodge th= e foulness in the blood. This is scientific, since it seeks the real physical cause; metaphysical healing says it cures, but cannot prove that the cause is destroyed and not merely palliated. That there is some room for doubt history shows us, for none will deny that many pure thinking and acting pai= r have brought forth children who displayed some taint derived from a distant ancestor. Evidently their pure individual thoughts had no power over the great universal development of the matter used by those human bodies. Turning now to medicine we find the Italian Count Mattei promulgating a system of cure by the homeopathic use of subtle vegetable essences which ma= y well give pause to those who would make universal the curing by faith or mind alone. Some of his liquids will instantly stop a violent pain, restore sight, give back hearing, and dissipate abnormal growths. His globules will make a drunken man sober, and, given to the nurse who suckles a babe, will cure the child who takes the milk. The drunkard and the child do not think about or have faith in the remedies, yet they cure. Is it not better to restore health by physical means and leave the high teachings of the healers, all taken from well know sources, for the benefit of our moral nature?=20 And if Christian healers read these lines, should they not remember that when the prophet restored the widow's son he used physical means - his own magnetism applied simultaneously to every member of the child's body, and Jesus, when the woman who touched his garment was cured, lost a portion of his vitality - not his thoughts - for he said "virtue" had gone out from him?=20 The Apostle also gave directions that if any were sick the others should assemble about the bed and anoint with oil, laying on their hands meanwhile= : simply physical therapeutics following a long line of ancient precedent dating back to Noah. Moses taught how to cure diseases and to disinfect places where contagion lurked. It was not by using the high power of thought, but by processes deemed by him to be effectual, such as sprinkling blood of animals slaughtered in peculiar circumstances. Without declaring for or against his methods, it is very certain that he supposed by these means subtle forces of a physical nature would be liberated and brought to bear on the case in hand. The mass of testimony through the ages is against healing physical ills by the use of the higher forces in nature, and the reason, once well known but later on forgotten, is the one given in the article of January, 1892, - tha= t diseases are gross manifestations showing themselves on their way out of th= e nature so that one may be purified. To arrest them though thought ignorantl= y directed is to throw them back into their cause and replant them in their mental plane. This is the true ground of our objection to metaphysical healing practices, which we distinguish from the assumptions and so-called philosophy on which those methods are claimed to stand. For we distinctly urge that the effects are not brought by any philosophical system whatever, but by the practical though ignorant use of psycho-physiological processes. William Q. Judge Path, September, 1892 --------------------------------------------------- =A0 OF OCCULT POWERS AND THEIR ACQUIREMENT THERE are thousands of people in the United States, as well in the ranks of the Society as outside, who believe that there are certain extraordinary occult powers to be encompassed by man. Such powers as thought reading, seeing events yet to come, unveiling the motives of others, apportation of objects, and the like, are those most sought after, and nearly all desired with a selfish end in view. The future is inquired into so as to enable one to speculate in stocks and another to circumvent competitors. These longing= s are pandered to here and there by men and societies who hold out delusive hopes to their dupes that, by the payment of money, the powers of nature ma= y be invoked. Even some of our own members have not been guiltless of seeking after such wonderful fruit of knowledge with those who would barter the Almighty, if they could, for gold. Another class of earnest theosophists, however, have taken a different ground. They have thought that certain Adepts who really possess power over nature, who can both see and hear through all space, who can transport soli= d objects through space and cause written messages to appear at a distance with beautiful sounds of astral bells, ought to intervene, and by the exercise of the same power make these earnest disciples hear sounds ordinarily called occult, and thus easily transmit information and help without the aid of telegraph or mailboat. But that these Beings will not do this has been stated over and over again; for the kingdom of heaven is not given away, it must be "taken by violence." It lies there before us to be entered upon and occupied, but that can be only after a battle which, when won, entitles the victor to remain in undisturbed possession. As many have seemed to forget these rules, I thought it well to offer them the following words from one of those very Adepts they seek to meet: The educing of the faculty of hearing occult sounds would be not at all the easy matter you imagine. It was never done to any one of us, for the iron rule is that what powers one gets he must himself acquire, and when acquire= d and ready for use, the powers lie dumb and dormant in their potentiality like the wheels in a music box, and only then it is easy to wind the key an= d start them....Yet every earnestly-disposed man may acquire such powers practically; that is the finality of it. There are no more distinctions of persons in this than there are as to whom the sun shall shine upon or the air give vitality to. There are powers of all nature before you; take what you can. This is perfectly clear and strictly according to the Secret Canon. "When the materials are all prepared and ready, the architect shall appear"; and when we have acquired the powers we seek, by educing them ourselves from ou= r inner being, the Master will then be ready and able to start into exercise that which we have obtained. But-even here is an important point. If the Master can, so to say, wind the key and thus start the machinery, He can also refuse to give the necessary impulse. For reasons that have to do with the motives and life of students, it may be advisable for a while not to permit the exercise of these powers which "lie dumb and dormant in their potentiality." To sanction their use might in one lead to the ruin of other lives, or in another to personal disaster and retardation of true progress. Therefore the Master says that quite often he may not only refuse to give the start, but yet further may prevent the wheels from moving. THERE ARE THE POWERS OF ALL NATURE BEFORE YOU; TAKE WHAT YOU CAN. Rodriguez Undiano Path, February, 1889. ------------------------------------------- =A0 REPLANTING DISEASES FOR FUTURE USE The ills I wish to speak of now are those of the body. Our moral nature wil= l be purified and ennobled, widened and strengthened, by attention to the precepts of the saints and sages who through all the ages continue speaking for our benefit. And I refer to these with a view to "mind-cure" and "metaphysical healing." In the article on the "Cure of Diseases" I stated our real ground of objections to the practices demonstrated variously, as the practitioners have been Theosophists, Christians, or followers of mind healers, to be directed to methods which in fact introduce a new sort of palliative that throws back into our inner, hidden planes of life diseases otherwise passin= g down and out through the natural gateway, our bodily frame. A consideration of this subject requires that we enquire awhile into the complete nature of man. This inquiry has been made before by much greater minds than mine, and I only hand on what they have found and what I have corroborated for myself. Mind-healers and Spiritual Scientists and the rest do not make any reference to this subtle nature of ours except to admit though to be powerful and to say that the "spiritual body is pure and free from disease." Mind itself is not described by them, nor is it stated that the "spiritual body" has any anatomy possible of description. But the field of Theosophic research is not devoid of an anatomical enumeration, so to say, of the parts of the inner body-the "spiritual body" of some of these schools-nor of the "mind" spoken of by them all. The mind is manas of the Hindus. It is a part of the immortal man. The "spiritual body" is not immortal. It is compounded of astral body with the passions and desires. Mind is the container of the efficient causes of our circumstances, our inherent character and the seeds that sprout again and again as physical diseases as well as those purely mental. It is the mover who is either voluntary in his motion, free if it will, of moved hither and thither by every object and influence and colored by every idea. From life to life it occupies body after body, using a new brain instrument in each incarnation. As Patanjali put it ages ago, in mind lie planted all seeds with self-reproductive power inherent in them, only waiting for time and circumstances to sprout again. Here are the causes for our diseases. Produc= t of thought truly, but thought long finished and now transformed into cause beyond our present thought. Lying like tigers by the edge of the jungle's pool ready to spring when the hour arrives, they may come forward accompanied by counteractions due to other causes, or them may come alone. When these seeds sprout and liberate their forces they show themselves in diseases in the body, where they exhaust themselves. To attack them with th= e forces belonging to the plane of mind is to force them again to their hidin= g place, to inhibit their development, to stop their exhaustion and transfer to the grosser level of life. They are forcibly dragged back, only to lie waiting once more for their natural expression in some other life. That natural expression is through a body, or rather through the lowest vehicle in use in any evolutionary period. This is a great wheel that ever revolves, and no man can stop it. To imagin= e we can escape from any cause connected with us is to suppose that law and order desert the manifested universe. No such divorce is possible. We must work everything out to the last item. The moment we evolve a thought and thus a cause, it must go on producing its effects, all becoming in turn causes for other effects and sweeping down the great evolutionary current i= n order to rise again. To suppose we can stop this ebb and flow is chimerical in the extreme. Hence the great sages have always said we have to let the Karmic effects roll on while we set new and better causes in motion, and that even the perfect sage has to endure in his bodily frame that which belongs to it through Karma. The inner anatomical structure should also be known. The ethereal body has its own current-nerves, for want of a better word, changes and method of growth and action, just as the gross body has. It is, in fact, the real body, for it seldom alters throughout life, while the physical counterpart changes every moment, its atoms going and coming upon the matrix or model furnished by the ethereal body. The inner currents emanate from their own centers and are constantly in motion. They are affected by thoughts and the reflection of the body in its physiological changes. They each act upon the other incessantly. (Every center of the inner body has its appropriate correspondent in the physical one, which it affects and through which it is in turn acted upon.) It is by means of these subtle currents-called vital airs when translated from the Sanscrit-that impressions are conveyed to the mind above, and through them also are the extraordinary feats of the s=E8ance room and the Indian Yogi accomplished. And just as one may injure his body by ignorantly using drugs or physical practices, so can the finer currents and nerves of the inner man be thrown out of adjustment if one in pride or ignorance attempts, uninstructed to deal with them.=20 The seeds of disease being located primarily in the mind, they begin to exhaust themselves through the agency of the inner currents that carry the appropriate vibrations down upon the physical plane. If left to themselves-aside from palliations and aids in throwing off-they pass out into the great crucible of nature and one is free from them forever. Therefore pain is said to be a kind friend who relieves the real man of a load of sin.=20 Now the moment the practices of the mind-curer are begun, what happens is that the hidden inner currents are violently grasped, and, if concentration is persisted in, the downward vibrations are thrown up and altered so as to carry back the cause to the mind, where it is replanted with the addition o= f the purely selfish desires that led to the practice. It is impossible to destroy the cause; it must be allowed to transform itself. And when it is replaced in the mind, it waits there until an opportunity occurs either in this life or in the next rebirth. In some cases the physical and psychological structures are not able to stand the strain, so that sometimes the return of the downward vibrations i= s so great and sudden that insanity results; in other cases disease with violent characteristics set in.=20 The high tone of thought enjoined by some schools of healers has the effect of making the cause of trouble sink deeper into hiding, and probably adds t= o concentration. But any thought would do as well, provided concentration is persisted in, for it is the concentration that makes the effect, and not th= e philosophy. The system of affirming and denying make concentration easier.= =20 For when the practitioner begins, he immediately brings to play certain inner forces by virtue of his dwelling on one thing. The veriest savages do the same. They have long taught it for various purposes, and their ideals g= o no higher than food and sleep, fetishes and superstitions.=20 When one is thus operating on another who is willing, the change of inner nerve currents is brought by sympathy, which in these cases is the same as the phenomenon so well known in physics by the name of induction. When a person is operated on-or against, I call it-the effect is either repelled o= r produced. If produced, it is by the same induction brought about without hi= s knowledge and because he was not stronger than the operator.=20 Here is the danger again. The schools of hypnotists are teaching how to do it. The mind-currents and "metaphysicians" are doing the same. An army of possibilities lurks under it all: for already there are those practitioners who deliberately practice against their opponents, sitting by day after day to paralyze the efforts of other people. It is like dynamite in the hands o= f a child. Some day it will explode, and those who taught it will be responsible, since instead of being taught it ought to be warned against. The world could get along with what disease there is, if it only turned attention to high ethics and altruistic endeavor. For after a few centuries of right living the nations would have purged themselves and built up a right moral building well founded on the rocks of true philosophy, charity, and love.=20 William Q. Judge Path, October, 1892 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D Dallas =20 From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Jan 31 03:39:01 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 53581 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2006 11:39:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2006 11:39:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.67) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2006 11:38:59 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.217] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1F3tpm-00009p-0L; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 06:38:09 -0500 To: Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 03:37:53 -0800 Message-ID: <000201c6265a$c9e26f50$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High In-Reply-To: <20060129181712.5183.qmail@web37014.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec791d3640c86a011f2e6bbba0c421ed2455350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.67 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: SCIENCE & THEOSOPHY Hello - New comer X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=K3PhMSvVHcNaiB6AKgjzjHC1OjcjqQy9Z08-yoO-ke9SwA X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/31/2006 3:23 AM Welcome back Jacques: Here is an apercu written by L. Maurer alon the lines you seem interested i= n: SCIENCE AND THEOSOPHY ( L M ) HPB had no knowledge of the empirical (material) science that, today,=20 still hasn't answered any of the real "hard" questions -- such as the true= =20 relationship between consciousness, mind, and matter -- that the ancient=20 philosophers answered thoroughly long before the SD was written.=20=20 In fact, while modern physics has made great strides in understanding the=20 mechanics of the outer physical world, they haven't the faintest idea about= the=20 true nature of the inner world.=20=20 Sure, the understanding of "how (physical) things work" has given us lots o= f=20 mechanical tools and entertaining toys to play with, and drugs to keep us=20 alive and soothe our psyched-out minds -- but what has any of that that don= e for=20 helping us live our lives more fully and understand ourselves better?=20=20 No matter how far science has progressed, they still haven't found any of t= he=20 answers that theosophy has given us to achieve self-realization -- which is= =20 far more important than feeding our physical wants and personal pleasures, = or=20 controlling our lives solely for the sake of money, power and greed. = =20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20 If you dig deep enough into the metaphysical teachings in the SD,=20 you will find that everything that science has achieved, based on the theor= ies=20 of relativity and quantum physics (which were completely presaged by HPB) h= as=20 done nothing to further our inner human development.=20=20 In fact, the theories of relativity, photoelectrically, quanta, and even=20 superstrings -- with its multidimensional [3+7] hyperspaces and M-branes=20 [coadunate but not consubstantial spherical fields] which almost identicall= y emulates=20 the "wheels within wheels" teachings in the SD -- still hasn't caught up wi= th=20 the deeper metaphysical teachings in the SD... Although they are getting cl= oser=20 and closer. Unfortunately, since they still haven't found out the whys and= =20 wherefores of consciousness and the root of mind, modern science is still f= ar=20 away from achieving their goal of a true "theory of everything."=20=20 But, eventually, when they finally realize that consciousness, along with=20 mind (as a separate entity in itself) is the fundamental cause of everythin= g and=20 was existent long before our present material universe evolved) -- science= =20 will reach an understanding of the truths of metaphysics (as clearly outlin= ed in=20 the SD) -- that is actually the way the real universe works in its=20 interdependent entirety... Not merely the way its particular and superfici= al physical=20 nature works. Which, after all, is only a small part of that true reality.= ..=20 That considers consciousness and mind as separate and even more important=20 elements of our real nature. And, without which, our present physical worl= d would=20 just be a temporary and meaningless glitch in the vast scope of universal=20 history.=20=20 What good is knowing how the physical universe works, if we don't know=20 ourselves? ... Or, how the conscious macrocosm (of which we are the analogo= us=20 microcosm) involved and evolved in the first place? So, what does physical science have to do with human evolution? Can their= =20 present genetic knowledge create a better human being? Can it change the c= ourse=20 of individual karma? Does it even understand karma?=20=20 This is not to say that the investigation of the physical world isn't impor= tant. But,=20 what has that got to do with the universal truths that theosophy has alread= y=20 thoroughly examined and given us all the tools we need to take care of our= =20 individual and even (if we look deep enough into its teachings) the evoluti= on of=20 all humanity?=20 So, how does science add anything useful toward achieving those aims? Doe= s having cell phones, television, and the Internet teach us anything about ou= r=20 human nature or the nature of the eternal realities that we all are all=20 destined to face, now, and in the future? Why would Masters have to communicate further? -- when the whole story was= =20 already known to them and outlined for us in the SD? All the rest is just = a filling=20 in of the details, of which physical science is just a small part of the wh= ole picture.=20=20 Besides, what makes you think the Masters have stopped communicating? Some= =20 theosophists, I'm sure, have found the "Master within" (as HPB said they wo= uld=20 if they kept following the path she laid down) and those Masters certainly = are=20 still communicating with them.=20 Those "secrets," I'm also sure, weren't meant to be given out (and couldn't= =20 be written down, even if we wanted to.) Besides, with respect to my ABC th= eory=20 (which is a sideways look at the true "scientific" reality -- if I showed t= he proof that would=20 make science unequivocally accept that theory, such a proof might end up=20 killing them... (Either physically, or by taking away all the "need to know= " that=20 has served as their motive to keep on living).=20=20 One nuclear physicist (an A-bomb designer =E2=80=A6 now deceased) who helped with this theory and examined a proposed design of an experiment=20 to prove it, said that the design, while technically feasible, could easily= turn into=20 what he called a "creation bomb." (So, I've destroyed all the plans for su= ch a=20 proof, and am content to let the physical scientists bumble their way close= r to=20 the ultimate truth all by themselves.:-)=20=20=20 . No doubt there is much more knowledge to be discovered.. And, I'm all for = it to=20 keep the scientists alive and busy. But, it would be nice if you could tel= l us=20 what such knowledge of the physical details has to do with our own inner=20 development? Isn't that what theosophy is all about?=20=20 ----------------------------------------------------- Q. -- Since the Masters are not there to spoon feed us the knowledge of the= =20 >Universe, we should use our tools, and our minds to try to evolve=20 >further, just as evidently they did. Yes, that's exactly what theosophy was given to us for. But, its the=20 evolution of the soul as an inner process, not an outer one, that they were= teaching.=20 It is the inner tools and the higher intuitive mind that they were speakin= g=20 to... Not, the physical instruments of our senses or our rational, lower m= ind.=20=20 Hasn't the whole story of universal knowledge already been thoroughly=20 explained in the SD? Why would the Master have to "spoon feed us" any more= of it?=20=20 So, what is it that science can do to help us evolve? All I can see is tha= t=20 it has done so far, is to give us more misery and grief by making us wage a= nd=20 consumer slaves to feed the industries they develop, making us into fat and= =20 effete couch potatoes, feeding our lower natures with all the tools we need= to=20 destroy our ecological and biospheric balance, stressing our lives still=20 further with all the new degenerate diseases such stress of "economic slave= ry"=20 causes, and gave us more efficient ways to kill each other. Even the food = that=20 they produce by their "scientific methods" is becoming more and more devoid= of=20 essential nutrients. And, all that their scientific medicine, with its mon= ey=20 making pharmaceuticals and boutique surgeries has done, is to turn what sho= uld=20 be "Health Care" into "Sick Care." Where's the evolution in that? Seems m= ore=20 like devolution to me. When science finally admits that theosophy has the true answer to how the=20 universe really works, and their followers who believe in them change their= minds=20 and give up their materialism and begin searching for their own inner truth= s=20 -- then science will have done us some good. But, until then, science has nothing to say that is useful toward achieving= =20 the real evolution of the soul -- which is what theosophy is all about. Right, but the fundamental teaching of theosophy was completed then [in 189= 1].=20=20 And, if science keeps on going along on its merry materialistic way without= =20 accepting and incorporating in its findings the knowledge of theosophy that= has=20 already been given to us in full -- the world might really end sooner than = we think.=20=20 L Maurer =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D additionally: SCIENCE =E2=80=93 MODERN.DOC =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 1 Lenny wrote: =09 Yes, I agree that having a section on the BLAVATSKY.NET site that looks at= =20 the progress of modern and post modern SCIENCE and considers its confirmati= ons=20 of theosophical metaphysics, as well as helps us examine their contradictio= n of=20 the more or less false metaphysics (along with the religious interpretation= s)=20 who have tried in the past, and are continuously attempting to turn theoso= phy into an organized,=20 hierarchically ruled and personalized messianic religion (in direct contrad= iction of=20 the original teachers, not to mention its metaphysics) -- is a very good id= ea.=20 =20 In this light, interpreting the theosophical metaphysics scientifically fro= m=20 an impersonal theoretical point of view, and comparing such possibilities w= ith=20 the developments of contemporary science in all its various disciplines,=20 including physiology, chemistry, biology and physics -- for purposes of ind= ividual=20 study or discussion on the various theosophical forums -- could also be ver= y=20 useful...=20=20 One eventuality to look forward to is; That when theosophical metaphysics=20 will be ultimately confirmed by Science and all of humanity can, on their=20 authority, accept that its imperatives, such as Karma, Reincarnation, Unive= rsal=20 Brotherhood, Altruism, etc., are "facts in Nature" -- there will be no furt= her need=20 for any "organized religions," or even theosophical organizations or=20 "societies," for that matter. Such comparative study would also serve to aid each of us in our individual= =20 search for self realization or enlightenment -- (depending on our own=20 visualization capabilities and control of our will based on self devised an= d self=20 determined efforts, such as thorough study and practice of the Jnana and Ra= jah=20 Yoga's recommended by HPB) -- to awaken a better understanding of those "oc= cult"=20 (esoteric) aspects of theosophical metaphysics that can only be gained=20 intuitively.=20=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >Dear Lenny: > >I agree with you: -- > >Claims mean nothing, They scare me -- also "quotations" without full >references. If anyone has something good to offer, then they might as >well tell us ASAP where to verify the statements. > >Honest inquiries I am happy to read and try to answer -- or I may be able >to point to sources that answer better than I can.=20 > >The value of anything lies in its contents and its cohesiveness with the F= ACTS=20 of NATURE and the established uniformity of the UNIVERSE, and, of course >the original teachings. All the rest is usually time-waste. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 1 A ON THE ANTIQUITY OF THEOSOPHY =20 Recent postings concerning setting up a department in BLAVATSKY.NET seem to draw our attention to the need for regularly comparing THEOSOPHY withal discoveries and changes in Science and world thought. ------------------------------------------ We all have a lot to learn and are learning new things every day.=20=20 =20 There are no finalities, but only an ever-focused sharpening of understandi= ng.=20=20 =20 We, the entire Universe, ever pursues a common and conjoint path of discovery, so while recording facts and events, our final conclusions ever ride along with us, and have to remain as flexible hypotheses -- they help us understand until they for lack of finality, break-down and have to be reframed. The general plan is there all right, but as we all progress through time and events, we reframe the conclusions we will have to meet in the future.=20 =20 There is no =E2=80=9Cstasis=E2=80=9D (except some assumed ones) anywhere. = What are those? =20 1 the UNIVERSE exists. (On many planes of substance and sensitivi= ty) =20 2 we as OBSERVERS exist =E2=80=93 we said to be are immortals -- n= o beginning or end to our work -- seems plausible. Bodies wear out and die= , but Universal Law (Karma) provides us with new ones, and so on and on=E2= =80=A6 (we, as Essential Beings, are not physical nor mental, but of some = kind of SPIRITUAL SUBSTANCE that survives the continual =E2=80=9Cravages of= change,=E2=80=9D in its correlates of time, and alterations in space. =20 3. the ongoing relations between the UNIVERSE and OURSELVES are an = essential part of this timeless and limitless REALITY. In the SECRET DOCTRI= NE they are said to be seven-fold [ see S D I, 157-8; II, 296 ]. =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 =20 =20 ON THE ANTIQUITY OF THEOSOPHY =20 =20 We may assume that you have visited this Theosophy Study Discussion List because you hope that there may be answers from students of Theosophy which you could compare with the thesis you seem to have already set up. =20 You have said: =20 =E2=80=9D I read your interesting mail with some delight. Yet again, when c= onfronted with anything that goes against Theosophical thinking or asked to use sources other than Theosophy to give your thoughts weight you resort to the age old argument of "You don't agree so you don=E2=80=99t understand". =E2= =80=9C =20=20 The present day scientist and Theosophical students =E2=80=93 and we are al= l students -- study the information provided and compare them. =20 Our =E2=80=9CScience=E2=80=9D tries to explain by hypothesis and theories w= hat may have been the =E2=80=9Cpast=E2=80=9D of present day observations (of course limited b= y the availability of artifacts and relics, and their present knowledge of the LAWS, so far detected and observed to be operating, in many correlated departments of Nature). =20 No one will dispute facts. One proviso in this work of scientific discover= y and identification is the one of extreme honesty =E2=80=93 no secrets, no h= iding -- is that all facts and discoveries (anomalies especially) are to be made available for all to see and draw conclusions about.=20 =20 >From evidence occasionally made available, it would seem that on occasion, certain facts (and artifacts) are removed from the glare of publicity =E2= =80=93 and we might conclude that this is done because they could upset or question some well-established hypothesis or theory. If true, this is not strict =E2=80=9Chonesty.=E2=80=9D Where has the =E2=80=9Cpublic=E2=80=9D been invi= ted to review the =E2=80=9Cfacts?=E2=80=9D This I have looked for but rarely if ever found in a systematic, scientific way. =20 As a result, I, for one distrust scientific hypotheses, and any kind of pontification. There are in Science no =E2=80=9Cauthorities=E2=80=9D =E2= =80=93 only seekers, observers and honest, accurate reporters. =20 As a case in point, let me refer you to the voluminous work HIDDEN ARCHEOLOGY (by Cremo and Johnson) published in San Diego, and a second volume issue two years later, in which they document the reception by scientists of their first book and the =E2=80=9Cfacts=E2=80=9D it displays.= =20=20 =20 As we are speaking of disagreements and anomalous discoveries, several authors down the years have pointed to these and (to my knowledge) have never been thoroughly refuted by Science =E2=80=93 or given prominence -- t= o my knowledge.=20=20 =20 We may take the writings of John Anthony West, Von Danni ken, Emanuel Velikovsky, Charles Fort, H. P. Blavatsky. These are four authors, who in their writings, articles, books -- have challenged =E2=80=93 not Science=E2= =80=99s facts -- but their interpretations of the past as they have reconstructed it in thei= r widely accepted (but rarely re-investigated) theories and hypotheses.=20 There are in existence challenging anomalies that demand a review of the older theories =E2=80=93 after all, a =E2=80=9Ctheory, or, an hypothesis=E2= =80=9D are not inflexible and are always subject to revision as new facts are discovered. =20 In my opinion, the exposing of challenges to scientific =E2=80=9Chypothesis= and theories=E2=80=9D show us, who are thinkers and observers, that they are no= t invariably of the highest value (although they are often taught as =E2=80= =9Ctruths). They cannot be adopted or treated as =E2=80=9Cauthoritative.=E2=80=9D =20 There are differences to be investigated.=20=20 =20 One may well ask: Why is it a fact that there are disagreements? We presen= t our views and findings, you have your own to compare. Naturally we will present to you what we know in terms drawn from Theosophy as you have approached us to find out what THEOSOPHY says.=20=20 =20 As to providing you with information from =E2=80=9Cother systems,=E2=80=9D = while this is available, we have not all done that extensive work and concentrated it. I believe it will prove difficult (but ought to be initiated), as the fundamental Theosophical approach is: that it, Theosophy, is a very ancien= t system of continued Scientific research and observation in all departments of Nature, and of the world religions, philosophies, and also this observation and recording in old as well as modern Sciences, are derived from it.=20=20 =20 As an example, in H P B=E2=80=99s The SECRET DOCTRINE you will find it stat= ed that the doctrines discussed have an antiquity going back some at least 18 million years. HPB states those are actually physically in the possession of the =E2=80=9CMasters of Wisdom.=E2=80=9D That exceeds by a great many y= ears, and cycles of years, any concept of time that the research done by organized Science in the past 300 years -- (I mean, since =E2=80=9COrientalism,=E2=80=9D beg= an with the scientists that Napoleon 1 had accompany him to Egypt in the very early 19t= h century.) =20 It is of course very annoying to find that the ancients (India, China, Egypt, Iran, the Incas and Mayans, etc=E2=80=A6) had made discoveries and h= ad observed the movement of the stars for millennia before our present =E2=80=9Cdiscoveries.=E2=80=9D In many cases we (our Science) corroborates= those, and in some we have disagreement. The main point and attitude we, as investigators and Scientists, ought to always adopt ought to be: Lets verify. Let=E2=80=99s freely admit that we have discovered evidence that sh= ows antiquity, in many parts of the world, had processes and used materials the= y were able to manufacture for which we have yet to discover the secrets.=20 =20 There is no =E2=80=9Cshame=E2=80=9D in this, but any claims to novelty disa= ppear in the rightful process of verification.=20 =20 Theosophical sources are the writings of Mme. Blavatsky: books and articles, most of which can be studied and understood by anyone.. Also, to some extent, they have to be individually supplemented with first hand observation and inquiries over years.=20 =20 Neither you, nor we (as students of Theosophy), are the final arbiters in this. We do make comparisons. Some we understand and others we do not. W= e are continually learning, all of us.=20=20 =20 But, as I understand it, it is facts that we are looking for, as well as, the supporting of mental acuity and freedom of thought.=20=20 =20 Those who worship at the shrine of TRUTH and FACT are contemptuous of no source of information, nor of any anomalies, or of contemporary or earlier work done by any one. We seek for traces of similarity, of analogy, or correspondence.=20=20 =20 Look through ISIS UNVEILED, (by HPB) if you wish to see what facts and events are brought forward for consideration there. It tends to point to important evens and anomalies that the Science of her days (and now, still) need to verify. On publication, ISIS UNVEILED created a sensation, and in a week all copies of the book were sold. It has been kept in print since then.=20=20 =20 Eleven years later The SECRET DOCTRINE was issued;. There you have a synopsis and review of the Occult records of the history of our Earth=E2=80= =99s formation and the evolution of mankind. These are meticulously contrasted with Science and its theories as known and taught in her time of writing.=20 Some of those are still maintained. In many cases, and most often in terms of cycles and time=E2=80=93periods, the SECRET DOCTRINE does not agree with= the current theories and hypotheses of modern Orientalism and Science. But tha= t does not make them wrong, or extraordinarily fanciful, or suspect. [see S D= =20 II, pp. 78-80] =20 We (as students of Theosophy) take the position that NATURE (or Deity) already contains everything. It is Nature as a fully conscious and intelligent lawful ENTITY of enormous size =E2=80=93 which, as a whole, sup= ports every detail of our needs (as well as those of all other beings in existence). It gives us, not only our =E2=80=9Clife,=E2=80=9D but that of = all =E2=80=98beings=E2=80=99 that make up our total environment. Law and Laws alone govern every aspect of being and manifestation. Our Science studies those. NATURE is the universa= l shrine of our common worship. Its organization ranges through seven stages between the limits of INFINITY and NOUGHT. It is a calculus made living and perfectly obvious to the seeker. =20 All living beings, of whatever kind, are supported by the united processes of laws that Nature has already in place. [ Chemistry, physics, mathematics= , astronomy, biology, medicine, sociology, linguistics, politics, history, etc=E2=80=A6 are as old as thinking man -- a period said to comprise at lea= st 18 million years. [see S D I, p. 150 footnote ]=20=20 =20 All the discoveries of Science are simply the revealing and verifying of what is already there laid down and operating under Nature=E2=80=99s contro= l and supervision. There is no =E2=80=9Cnovelty=E2=80=9D only DISCOVERY, and ver= ification of facts observed. =20 Our present knowledge has, and is, gradually being built up. It is NOT built on the basis that any one individual =E2=80=9Cknows best,=E2=80=9D or= knows =E2=80=9Ceverything,=E2=80=9D and therefore challenging words like =E2=80= =9Clies,=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9Cmisunderstandings,=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9Ccharlatanry,=E2=80=9D =E2=80= =9Cfraud,=E2=80=9D etc. are not used, unless there is verified evidence, at FIRST HAND of their existence. Their use in inquir= y and conversation implies to me, that certain judgments have been made.=20 Permit me to question their validity.=20=20 =20 If you have read the literature of Theosophy, then, in a broad-minded, free capacity to embrace information, let me ask what are your specific objections to statements made there. Inquiry starts with dialog. But if there is a pre-judged position assumed by either party, at that point inquiry and exchange ceases. I then becomes argument =E2=80=93 and =E2=80= =9Copinions=E2=80=9D as viewed by some impartial third party=E2=80=9D are made to emerge and strand= on whatever basis they deserve.=20 =20 Incidentally, have you have read Sylvia Cranston=E2=80=99s biography of H.P= .B. (Tarcher, New York) as it answers seriously and with documented facts all the innuendos cast at this life and work of this remarkable Personage =20 If permitted, let me ask, if you have read ISIS UNVEILED or The SECRET DOCTRINE? I am interested in the opinions you have to offer, and their basis.=20 =20 If one has had the benefit of a wide acquaintance with Science and Academic research in general, one may find that the most valuable attitudes among such wonderful and dedicated people can be classed as humility, diligence, and unprejudiced research =E2=80=93 and of course, this has to include a wi= de research, and a good knowledge of all adjacent disciplines.=20=20 =20 Those who are at the forefront of discovery in Science, Orientalism, and Philosophy ask probing questions, seek for facts, and do not make pronouncements, designed to support their views, guesses and opinions of th= e past or present. To take but a few we have at the cutting edge of Science:= =20 Hawkings, Penrose, Sheldrake, Margulis, Mandelbrot, Viswanath Diwakar, etc. =20 Theosophy fills gaps that Science is still trying to bridge, and for which (and it is a lack of specific knowledge) it has erected =E2=80=9Cpossible v= iews=E2=80=9D of plausible causes and procedures in the establishing of a reasonable =E2=80=9Chistory,=E2=80=9D and calls them: theories and hypotheses, which = are found to frequently change as the history of Science reveals, when new evidence appears.=20=20 =20 It would seem to me, that you may have adopted some conclusions which today are acceptable in your =E2=80=9CDiscipline.=E2=80=9D And it also seems to = me that you are seeking to verify and prove your pre-judged position. To me, this is most commendable as it will enable you to make strict scientific research possible.=20=20 =20 You have obviously made a unique study -- leading to specialization. You have therefore assumed that the solutions (theories and hypotheses) accepte= d by your =E2=80=9Cauthorities=E2=80=9D and adopted by you are correct. But = are you not in the process of proving them? =20 In contrast to you, I prefer to call myself a =E2=80=9Cgeneralist.=E2=80=9D= I listen to all sides and take notes and reserve assuming any position until it is clear we are all considering such facts and reports as are available.=20=20 =20 I try to cover a number of inter-related disciplines, since it is evident that Nature has interlocking and cohesive systems in place. For example, o= n careful examination I believe we might say: Nature (taken as a whole) appears to be infinitely sensitive and responsive to the needs of the individual components of its many systems. One can see order and precision in the motions, and influence surrounding an atom, a crystal, an element o= r a chemical compound, a plant, an animal, a man, a mathematical equation, or a chemical, physical or astronomical problem -- or take the remarkable advance in astro-physics and look at a Solar System and the large number of interacting Galaxies that the use of the Hubble telescope has revealed in all directions. Is the Universe in fact an enormous SUN ? Are we bathed (as unit parts of its inhabitants) with a constant stream of the most varie= d radiations? We live on Earth, but our =E2=80=9Cheads=E2=80=9D are in those = far stars. Are we then to limit and sequester our knowledge? What roads of endeavour lead to WISDOM ? =20 Law and Laws are found to rule everywhere. Science depends on the honesty and accuracy of Nature in all its works near and far. Science makes its declarations based on the facts it discovers. It chooses NATURE as the final authority. It says that any discovery can be replicated and demonstrated by any one else. It is the universality of facts that is valuable, and not the individual opinions of the discoverers.=20=20 =20 In the orient, the oldest texts were transmitted verbally with great contro= l over sound and inflection because (and I have tapes that demonstrate this) concealed in the sound were some of the =E2=80=9Ccodes=E2=80=9D whereby sec= ret knowledge was transmitted. The superficial sounds in ancient verses were made to present a coherency that served as a kind of =E2=80=9Cblind=E2=80=9D which diverted= and deflected the attention of a newcomer or a non-initiate. =20 There are certain euphonic similarities which, studied in terms of actual linguistic distribution (present and past) are said to have a relationship -- but your study and research says that is not so. It remains to find out what is correct. [ see SECRET DOCTRINE (on language and codes: I, pp. 269, 307-25, 362, 568; II, pp, 198-201, 334-5, 364, 560, ] =20 Again, neither of us are either right or wrong, but we seek to find out where the greater accuracy is. Your research and mine may overlap in places, but they are not invariably coincident, and certainly neither of us can assume that their position and our particular observations are necessarily final, and the statements made by the other are idiotic. And as I understand it, in a life time of dealing with experts in all departments of Scientific research, prejudice is usually careless of the findings of other disciplines, unless the researcher has a rare and inquisitive (even intuitive) nature and is determined to find the TRUTH by any and every means, and accept no conclusions unless they are proven to general satisfaction. We accept nothing and reject nothing. The future will teach this.=20=20 =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D =20 2 =20 Theosophy does not have to be moved =E2=80=9Cforward.=E2=80=9D=20=20 =20 It is already descriptive of all observable phenomena, as it deals with and reports on NATURE and her laws and history. It has always done this and reports facts observed in the past and ascribes causes which our modern Science is yet to uncover.=20=20 =20 Our eyes embrace everything in Nature because nature makes it available to those who are constructively its servants. We look for the ethical and moral effect of any laws or action which we might bring about when using Nature=E2=80=99s laws. Science has yet to take the clue and work with that= aspect of knowledge. =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3 =20 It doesn't matter if Theosophy is 'real' or not. It does a fine job of bringing people together and doing good works. What I do object to is the indefensible idea that it is based in its entirety on ancient books (writte= n we are told by Atlanteans).=20=20 =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 4 =20 I recognize that the antiquity of information held by Theosophy is a surprise to most scientists.=20=20 =20 They are also surprised to learn that in India there are thousands of manuscripts other than the Vedas and the Upanishads, that deal with all aspects of science, mechanism, chemistry, physics, biology, mathematics, medicine, psychology, etc.. and those are under the care of the hereditary families of Brahmins, who guard them, and are not at all interested in letting the modern Academicians know anything about them. =20 In The SECRET DOCTRINE you will find that WISDOM is not solely derived from the Atlanteans, but that there have been races older and wiser than they.=20 Those claims mean nothing. In the =E2=80=9Chere and how=E2=80=9D what are = we doing ? what are we learning? what are we verifying? =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 1 Universal brotherhood a fact in nature does have a downside! Based on 18 months of Envisat observations, this high-resolution global atm= ospheric map of nitrogen dioxide pollution makes clear just how human activ= ities impact air quality. =20 ESA's ten-instrument Envisat, the world's largest satellite for environment= al monitoring, was launched in February 2002. Its onboard Scanning Imaging = Absorption Spectrometer for Atmospheric Chartography (SCIAMACHY) instrument= records the spectrum of sunlight shining through the atmosphere. These res= ults are then finely sifted to find spectral absorption 'fingerprints' of t= race gases in the air.=20 http://www.esa.int/export/esaEO/SEM340NKPZD_index_2.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 2 CERN to Probe Life, the Universe and Everything http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=3Dstory&u=3D/nm/20041018/sc_nm/scienc= e_cern_dc =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 2 A I agree and think you are right -- if more scientists are honest and give exactly what they see to be considered, then many inaccuracies occasioned b= y trying to make selected answers fit old accepted but prejudiced theories will be done away with.=20=20 The real problem is the atmosphere of authoritative ignorance, and the fals= e=20 desire to protect that ignorance by the use of invective, misdirection and = suppression of truth.=20=20 That is a large accusation and not all are guilty. But many feel insecure a= nd defensive -- and unable to shake loose of the shackles of the teachings they imbibed earlier. The Past overshadows the present. How to get out from under that= ? However, as I look at some of the evidence Odin is digging up I see there i= s a large area of work still to be straightened out. Did you ever get to read FORBIDDEN ARCHAEOLOGY by Cremo and Johnson (?) or was it Thompson ? Published some years ago (5 or 6) -- on archaeological digs and findings that showed that humans had lived in the Americas long before the generally accepted and supposed first period -- in San Diego. Then a succeeding book came out giving a report on the response they had received from the scientific community.=20 There have been a succession of writers who have achieved notice who have drawn attention to anomalies and have in effect asked for explanations: HPB, Charles Fort, Emanuel Velikovsky, Von Danigen, (?) John Anthony West, = ... Their works ought to be read, and, again summarized -- and if any later findings = have emerged they ought to be catalogued and noted. A book doing that would become a =E2=80=9Cbest seller=E2=80=9D almost immed= iately. What about the five pointed pyramid on Mars and the human face when the sun highlights it? Buried? Forgotten?=20=20 What about more recent findings concerning under-water cities off West Cuba, the Bahamas, and reports of Pyramids in the ocean off the West Azores ? Relicts of Atlantis and Lemuria ..... Someone ought to catalog all HPB set down in ISIS UNVEILED and the SECRET DOCTRINE on evidence found and known in her days, and then carefully add to= that all the subsequent findings.. I think the evidence would be overwhelming. But, per= haps not popular.=20=20 Remember, historically, the publisher Macmillan's who had published Veliko= vsky's works was forced by economic pressure from the academic world, to give (sell) the co= pyright to another=20 publisher and dissociate themselves from his queries, if they desired to retain their position as a reputable supplier of "authentic text-books." I used to have copies of the various exchanges in the press made at that time, and all this came out in the open.=20 Of course no one can prove anything to another, but they can offer evidence= . And keep pressure going so that some attention is continuously placed on those things. If the response is either inactivity or negative, then the old barriers persist and human advance is delayed. This has been the fate of the SECRET DOCTRINE and its marvelous presentation. Your offer to help is generous and valuable. Personally my energy is now s= o low I can hardly find time for the little writing I do. I also see that Reed Carson seems favourable to research along the lines of supportive discovery, and Odin helps. But, health-wise I am now so unable .... So I pass what seem to be useful leads on. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 Subject: Theos-World Re: Re: QUANTUM and EVOLUTION ? To answer your question...=20 I was speaking of the "mass media" where any=20 useful dissemination of the theosophical metaphysical ideas and principles might be exposed, and that might provoke further scientific investigation. = =20 Such information could be expressed through either books or articles, but=20 preferably, documentaries and feature films that could speak to the amateur and professional scientists and technologists, as well as the interested la= y=20 public.=20=20 This, of course, depends on our individual creative efforts -- which must have behind it a credibility that could speak directly in the language of current science... But, in a manner that that didn't go beyond = plain vernacular English that could be understood by everyone.=20=20=20 However, didn't HPB say that the scientists will eventually reach the=20 metaphysical truths for themselves, and that we should direct our attention toward writing the Secret Doctrine in our "own words" -- so as to "spread broadcast" the scientific understanding of karma and reincarnation to ordinary people "in the language of this Age"?=20=20 And, shouldn't that language be that vernacular English expressed orally,=20 graphically, and audio-visually through the mass media?=20 So, unless there are some among us who have the access to those media, alon= g with the necessary skills of writing, directing, producing, etc., plus the= =20 metaphysical knowledge to express the theosophical science in the common language of this age -- I suppose, there's really not much the rest of us c= an do but=20 "wait and see."=20=20 But, just in case there is anyone or group out there with a good movie idea= =20 based on an attractive and interesting plot that might be able to disseminate the scientific truths of theosophy -- I would be happy to offer= whatever advice or assistance I can -- based on my many years of creative, technical= ,=20 scientific, and production experience in the communication arts industries (as well as my lifetime's study of esoteric and occult metaphysical science and philosophy). See http://users.aol.com/leonmaurer/LHM.index.html=20 Incidentally, I also have a movie series project, "The Solar World Chronicles" (over twenty years in development that the state of the moviema= king art has=20 now caught up with :-) following in the footsteps of the Star Trek and Star= =20 Wars genre -- that, besides exciting, adventurous and entertaining story lines, has a direct relationship to the next hundred year "action" cycle of= the=20 Theosophical Movement, and demonstrates as well as explains the truths of theosophy from a scientific and spiritual, as well as a practical POV.=20 The project also has a parallel spin off in the publishing world as a serie= s of novels, comic books, etc., (which might actually come first with the right talented writers and artists ready to go to work). So, anyone with the right connections, skills or talents, or financial resources is welcome to = participate in this project and help complete its further development (final screenplays, story= boards,=20 and scripts) leading to financing, initial preproduction, production, and=20 eventual book publishing and TV/Theatrical distribution. For an overview, see:=20 http://users.aol.com/uniwldarts/uniworld.artisans.guild/solwldcrystposter.= html =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >Many thanks very clear. > >I agree we will have to wait and see. But can we offer points to help >this progress, and where place them? > >Tesla / Edison - I agree with your view, it was mine also and am glad to >have it confirmed.=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >Subject: Theos-World Re: QUANTUM and EVOLUTION ? > > The only comments I might have is that the research done in Russia appears to be bringing us close to a final scientific proof of the unity of nature and the linkages between the various fields of consciousness with the all=20 encompassing universal memory of the Akasha -- as described in theosophy, and more or less scientifically presented in my=20 ABC holographic fractal field theory linking consciousness, mind, and body = on all levels of universal involution and evolution. It appears that their work on the DNA wave computer concept coupled with the multidimensional field theories of Superstring/M-branes (all framed=20 within my ABC theory) may be the final "new scientific paradigm" to serve a= s the bridge needed to link these metaphysical theories of theosophy,=20 that use deduction from principles to arrive at the particulars, with the i= nductive theories of physics (quantum, relativity, etc.) that can only reductively approach t= he=20 ultimate reality as close as the smallest particle they can measure with their physical instruments.=20=20 These new theories fill in the gap between their "quanta" and the zero-poin= t=20 of primal space, and will ultimately prove the=20 analogous and corresponding unity of all things with the Absolute, as well= =20 as their holographic and coenergetic interrelationships with each other on = all levels of consciousness. As it is, these new findings have already begun to shake up the scientific establishment, and change some of their fundamental beliefs... Although,=20 there are still many of them struggling to justify their old reductive=20 materialism.=20 Much like the Newtonian classicists fought against the theory of relativity and the unity of matter and energy -- that Einstein, apparently, pulled straight out of the SD. (Not to denigrate his brilliance in devising the c= omplex mathematics that justified and proved it. :-) All this is the beginning of the inevitability that all the physiological biochemical-physical sciences and theosophical metaphysics will meet on a common ground in this century, as predicted by HPB.=20=20 All we need do now is wait and see, as well as do the best we can to point out that connection in the mass media (the "language of this age") -- so that all people will eventually believe it in both their hearts and minds,= =20 and begin to act accordingly. As for Edison with respect to Tesla, I think Edison was much overrated, and that their relationship was much like that of a practical engineer of great cleverness (and questionable ethics) versus a true visionary theoretical genius/scientist/idealist of much greater brilliance of mind. Tesla was also much more of a true "theosophist" of high moral and ethical character than Edison was.=20 =20 Edison and his close friend Ford were both exploiters and racists (as were those "robber barons" who financed them). Judging by their actions, in spite of their supposed membership in the TS, I think they were theosophists in name only, and were intellectually interested only in black= magic=20 mysticism and psychic phenomena -- that was much in vogue among the wealthy= =20 cocktail party dilettantes of their time.=20 In my view (speaking as both an engineer/scientist as well as a theosophist= ) Edison was an exploitative entrepreneur who picked the brains of those much more brilliant than himself (not to mention continually trying to discredit them) -- while Tesla was a true visionary and brilliant scientist/philosop= her,=20=20 of great ethics and honor, who was blind-sided by his more pragmatic (and greedy) colleagues and patrons, all of whom ripped off and denigrated everything he ever accomplished and, in the process, drove him into poverty and obscurity until his untimely death. Read about it and weep.=20 http://flyingmoose.org/truthfic/tesla.htm =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D RE: Discussions and proving.=20=20 Adding to B N Science section Dear Friends: I agree -- so let the "thinkers" show others where they secured their "help= ." Now where do we start?=20=20 Should we not make that which is useful available to others? Several ways occur to me: 1. Republish the "original teachings" on Internet. 2. Answer inquiries and point to solutions that rest on Theosophical basics. Discuss these freely. 3. A possible third is to critically review current writings and add to our accumulation of "proofs"=20=20 1. Scientific reports, and discoveries 2. Psychological studies and discoveries 3. Religious statements and trends. 4. Methods of study of feeling, emoton, thought, logic, free-will, choosing, and, seeking for common denominators all may accept. 5. Discussing all aspects of information freely. Best wishes, Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3 Thanks Jerry I think it is also called quantum theory and its nature is also called indeterminacy. I can see that from a strictly material point of view. In "Psychic and Noetic Action" [H P B Articles, II, p. 7] H P B says that the physical aspect of Nature ends with the "molecule."=20=20 Beyond and within that lies the realm of FORCES AND ENERGIES -- of atoms a= nd sub-atoms, etc., and there she says, begins the plane of the =E2=80=9DAS= TRAL LIGHT and ASTRAL FORMS=E2=80=9D -- Energies and Powers -- but those, as far as I can see, are at best, substan= ces more refined (?), and therefore not tangible to our physical senses wit= hout the interpretation of the finer vibrations of electro-magnetic energy= as detectors. >From the theosophical point of view, they may also relate to energic planes= of life-defining and inter-relative forces that correlate every definite = =E2=80=9Cform=E2=80=9D in the Universe (Earth), (and their underlying energ= ic causes) and perhaps, man=E2=80=99s physical body, complex as it is. The= se would then be the planes of Prana (breath of life) and Jiva (or Life-= energy). But I may be wrong. I have been, like you following the developments in science along these lines I find these are suggestive and encouraging.=20=20 Now I notice in computer technology that both quantum theory and indetermin= acy are aspects of mathematical and actual, physical substance work in whic= h they hope to be able to make still more speedy and larger computers compr= essed into ever smaller physical space.=20=20 Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 -----Original Message----- From: Gerald S <> Dal,=20 J at the subatomic level it is more like probability of force than a center. Scientists observe subatomic particles using a probabilistic equation called the wave function, which addresses particles as if they were waves.=20 These waves are spread out over distance, and so when we look for an electr= on, for example, we say that "it is probably in this areas as opposed to other areas"=20=20 When the wave function is translated into our everyday world, it collapses,= and this "collapse of the wave function" results in uncertainty and probab= ility. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 4 From: Leon Maurer My comments were based mostly on the scientific reviews and interpretations= =20 and conclusions made about the book by so called "peer reviewers" -- some=20 negative, that pointed out the experimental flaws.=20 I also found their interpretation mostly based on materialistic concepts th= at imply that consciousness and resultant mental concepts and psychic or sp= iritual tendencies are of a material causation -- that directly contradicts= both theosophy and my personal conclusions based on the theory of ABC, and= even some of the later DNA holographic wave field theories and corroborati= ve experiments made by Russian scientists.=20 Although I don't doubt the possibility -- which most of these reductive=20 scientists overlook -- that what is thought in the mind that leads to relig= ious=20 tendencies can, in fact, alter the genes expressed by the DNA.=20 More or less agreeing with Buddha's statement that "everything we are is th= e result of what we have thought." That idea of downward causation from hi= gher fields also seems to agree with, besides theosophy, the morphogenetic = field evolutionary theory of Sheldrake as well as similar conclusions of th= e DNA-wave theorists.=20 Thus, the implication in Hamer's research conclusions that the DNA is the=20 cause of these tendencies is highly misleading, and heavily biased toward p= roving materialism as the only reality -- i.e., matter as the primal cause. =20=20 Although, his correlation's of particular genes with such tendencies is not= in=20 serious doubt. However, this is similar to the "neural correlates of consc= iousness" by the neuroscientists -- that also confuses the direction of cau= sation between consciousness, mind and matter.=20 That is why I compared his "God-gene" theory with the earlier correlative=20 "scientologies" some of which have been discredited, but which may still ha= ve=20 some superficial and simplistic correlative values. >--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, leonmaurer@a... wrote: > >> This (let's call it "geneticology":-) seems to fall into the same catego= ry=20 as phrenology, iridology, astrology, chiromancy, psychoanalysis, etc. -- so= me=20 of which became so popular around the time of HPB.=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 5 RE Inventions Thanks John. Yes it is interesting to visit. In the THEOSOPHICAL literature it speaks of the mind, needing a concept or = a procedure, sends out "a finger of thought" and, if powerful enough, it im= pinges on an answer in the universal astral light (the record of all events= and things) and can bring it back. I wonder. It must have something to d= o with the character and predisposition of the person, as well as Karma in = general. In the case of Edison so many inventions and developments have c= ome from his work. I have also puzzled over what HPB meant when in the SECRET DOCTRINE she wro= te that 1887/8 would see a vast rent made in the curtain of materialism and= there would be a change in the outlook of purely material science. I found that in 1887/8=20 Roentgen discovered rays that passed through flesh...he called them X-Rays. Two months later Henri Becquerel accidentally found that a piece of uranium ore emitted something that fogged photographic plates.=20=20 And the electron, the carrier of electricity, was discovered in 1897.=20 Within 5 years, and certainly within the next 100 -- to 1997 -- a vast chan= ge has occurred. What are some of the high-lights of development after 1897?=20=20 Airplanes, inter-planetary travel, transistors, quantum mechanics, indeterm= inacy, TV, Internet, A and H bombs, antibiotics, electron microscopes would= enable a view of the molecule and of some atoms, cell-phones offering worl= d communication, a 19th century, end of era scientist would have declared a= nyone mad who predicted the above mentioned novelties that now rule our wor= d and weld it more and more into one.=20 I also recall that Edison is reported to have made it a practice to go to sleep sitting in a chair with a spoon held between his thumb and index finger, when he went to sleep he relaxed, and the clatter of its fall awake= ned him, and he said he had often has some of his illuminating insights at = that time? One wonders ? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Theos-World RE: [bn-study]=20 Why is Theosophy better than religions or other... Dallas,=20 Thanks for your post. BTW, today I read a website that is one of those=20 unusual but, most interesting creative individual sites that pop up from time to time. Knowing your interest in this area I take this opportunity to= post it to you.=20 This man was a carpenter for 35 years and he has a new original theory=20 of just exactly how they managed to build the Pyramids and other Megalithic= =20 Monuments.=20 On the 10 pages he gives the Theory and Principle he has discovered and as well places color Photographs showing how he performs it = all. He seems to have out classed the Japanese and others who have attempted to do = the same=20 using more widely accepted formula that did not work.=20 The Forgotten Technology http://www.theforgottentechnology.com/Page1.htm =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 6 Dallas, this news is from Jonathan Gray -=20 www.beforeus.com=20=20=20 A TOMATO PLANT AS HIGH AS A 3-STORY=20 BUILDING? That's right! Japanese physicist Dr. Kei Mori exposed plant life to=20 two of the conditions of the original world ecology -=20 before the Great Flood. He grew tomato plants under a plastic dome which=20 filtered the ultraviolet rays; and he increased the=20 carbon-dioxide. After two years, a cherry tomato plant was 16 feet tall,=20 with 903 tomatoes on it. After six years, the same=20 tomato plant was over 30 feet tall and had produced=20 over 5,000 tomatoes. That tomato plant just didn't want to die. Ask yourself=20 now, How long do tomato plants usually live? Perhaps five or six months? They die of old age, destroyed by=20 ultra-violet radiation. Could this have some bearing on how old people would=20 have lived under the same environment? GREATER AIR PRESSURE THEN The atmospheric pressure, as well as the oxygen content,=20 had to be greater in the past, in order to support the=20 huge life forms which then existed. My friend Dr. Carl Baugh, of Glen Rose Texas, has set=20 out to build the world's first hyperbaric biosphere, 62=20 feet long. Its purpose is to simulate the context of our=20 original world.=20 An engineer from NASA has called it the greatest=20 experiment in history, ever performed in the name of=20 science. Research indicates that essentially everything was larger=20 in the past. For instance, the club mosses which today=20 reach sixteen to eighteen inches often approach two=20 hundred feet in the fossil record. The difference may well be in the atmospheric pressure: In today's atmosphere we have 14.7 pounds atmospheric=20 pressure per inch at sea level.=20 But to oxygenate the deep cell tissue of those great=20 dinosaurs we need much greater atmospheric pressure.=20 Research has shown that when you approach two times=20 today's atmospheric pressure, the entire blood plasma=20 is saturated with oxygen. IMAGINE HAVING THE ENERGY TO RUN 200=20 MILES NON-STOP! Such atmospheric pressure would also PROMOTE RAPID=20 HEALING! A CANOPY WOULD PROMOTE SUCH=20 ATMOSPHERIC PRESSURE It is believed that before the Flood a water canopy=20 enveloped the earth, above the atmosphere. With such=20 a canopy, the atmosphere would be pressurized to a=20 greater degree than we have now. SURPRISING EVIDENCE=20 - A PRE-FLOOD HAMMER In the 1980s, a hammer found inside a rock stratum=20 was analysed by the Batelle Laboratories in=20 Columbus, Ohio, the same laboratory that analysed moonstones.=20 The elemental analysis showed it to be 96.6 percent=20 iron, 0.74 percent sulphur, and 2.6 percent chlorine. Physicists tell us that under today's atmospheric=20 conditions you cannot compound chlorine with metallic iron. Yet here it is. Today, chlorine can be joined=20 with iron as solid metal only in two atmospheres of=20 oxygen pressure, and only in the absence of ultraviolet=20 radiation. Of course, ultraviolet radiation would have been=20 filtered out by the protective canopy. Research indications are that the pre-Flood atmosphere is the only plausible explanation, for the forging of=20 this metallic artifact. This gets intensely interesting.=20=20 That's why I could not keep this and other discoveries to myself. So many folk have been asking me to share information about these wonders. That's why the e-book "The Killing of Paradise Planet" was produced. If you want to see what else is tucked away in there,=20 just take a visit now to=20 http://www.archaeologyanswers.com/first.php Best wishes Jonathan Gray =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D 7 "Indigo" is about prescient children who can communicate via extra-sensory = means and how they are able to work with disbelievers and, in time, win the= m over. "Indigo," he said, was meant to be "a movie that hopefully makes pe= ople feel better about being human beings and shows who we are and why we'r= e here....=20 http://www.indigothemovie.com/ Human Development In The Earth=E2=80=99s Rounds The natural-born Seers and clairvoyants of Mrs. A. Kingsford=E2=80=99s and = Mr. Maitland=E2=80=99s types; the great adepts of whatsoever country; the g= eniuses =E2=80=94 whether in arts, politics or religious reform. No great p= hysical distinction yet; too early and will come later on. =E2=80=A6a few drops of rain do not make a monsoon though they presage it. = The fifth round has not commenced on our earth and the races and sub-races = of one round must not be confounded with those of another round. =E2=80=A6. You should know also that the casual fifth round men (and very few and scar= ce they are) who come in upon us as avant couriers do not beget on earth fi= fth round progeny. Plato and Confucius were fifth round men and Gautama Bud= dha a sixth round man =E2=80=A6.=20 Our mystic terms in their clumsy re-translation from the Sanskrit into Engl= ish are as confusing to us as they are to you =E2=80=94 especially to =E2= =80=9CM=E2=80=9D. Unless in writing to you one of us takes his pen as an ad= ept and uses it from the first word to the last, in this capacity he is qui= te as liable to =E2=80=9Cslips=E2=80=9D as any other man.=20 No, we are not in the fifth round, but fifth round men have been coming in = for the last few thousand years. But what is such a petty stretch of time i= n comparison with even one million of the several millions of years embrace= d in man=E2=80=99s occupancy of earth in a single round?... =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 8 UFO=E2=80=99s, ETs, and anamolies. Using an ordinary 8 mm movie camera Dorothy Wilkinson-Izatthas filmed hundr= eds of sequences of unexplained, yet authenticated, pictures of UFO=E2=80= =99s, ETs, and anamolies. Dorothy Izatt is without peer anywhere on record in the world, even when co= mpared to today's tabloid media with its endless loops of bizarre video foo= tage from various places and people. Aside from the fact that electronicall= y simulated video images aren't as yielding to analysis as the images in fi= lm photography, the obvious difference is that the footage derives from mul= tiple sources. With Dorothy we have a credible, trustworthy, prolific sourc= e in one location - or in any location anywhere she chooses - willing to de= monstrate the process for an observer. http://www.coasttocoastam.com/gen/page175.html http://www.timelessvoyager.com/cwbol.htm HPB wrote: The ordinary man has no experience of any state of consciousness other than= that to which the physical senses link him. Men dream; they sleep the pro= found sleep which is too deep for dreams to impress the physical brain; and= in these states there must still be consciousness.=20=20 How, then, while these mysteries remain unexplored, can we hope to speculat= e with profit on the nature of globes which, in the economy of nature, must= needs belong to states of consciousness other and quite different from any= which man experiences here? And this is true to the letter. For even great adepts (those initiated of = course), trained seers though they are, can claim thorough acquaintance wit= h the nature and appearance of planets and their inhabitants belonging to o= ur solar system only. They know that almost all the planetary worlds are in= habited, but can have access to=E2=80=94even in spirit=E2=80=94only those o= f our system; and they are also aware how difficult it is, even for them, t= o put themselves into full rapport even with the planes of consciousness wi= thin our system, but differing from the states of consciousness possible on= this globe; i.e., on the three planes of the chain of spheres beyond our e= arth.=20=20 Such knowledge and intercourse are possible to them because they have learn= ed how to penetrate to planes of consciousness which are closed to the perc= eptions of ordinary men; but were they to communicate their knowledge, the = world would be no wiser, because it lacks that experience of other forms of= perception which alone could enable them to grasp what was told them. Stil= l the fact remains that most of the planets, as the stars beyond our system= , are inhabited,=20 [SD II, 701] =E2=80=A6. bear in mind that on a higher plane even volatile ether would ap= pear to be as gross as mud. Every plane has its own denseness of substance = or matter, its own colours, sounds, dimensions of space, etc., which are qu= ite unknown to us on this plane; and as we have on earth intermediary being= s, the ant for instance, a kind of transitional entity between two planes, = so on the plane above us there are creatures endowed with senses and facult= ies unknown to the inhabitants of that plane.=20 The ant, can certainly appreciate the sounds that we do, and it can also ap= preciate sounds that we can never hear, therefore evidently, physiology has= nothing whatever to do with the matter. The ant and ourselves possess diff= erent degrees of perception. We are on a higher scale of evolution than the= ant, but, comparatively speaking, we are the ants to the plane above.=E2= =80=9D [Transactions 121] =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 9 Jacques Benveniste was a renowned French doctor and immunologist who dedica= ted his last decade (he recently died - Oct. 3, 2004) in proving the contro= versial theory that water has memory. http://www.digibio.com/cgi-bin/node.pl?nd=3Dn3 In the above page, click on "Plasma coag. video" in the left column to view= the video showing his experiment in coagulating plasma (blood) using only = water exposed with an electromagnetic "signal" of "heparin" (a well known b= lood coagulant).=20 UNDERSTANDING DIGITAL BIOLOGY by Jacques Benveniste Explaining digital biology is impossible without explaining its principle. = The purpose of this text is not to report experimental results. Rather, it = tries to explain to laymen, in the simplest terms, this radically new appro= ach to biology. We hope it will be useful to all, scientists or not, who fi= nd it hard to "make the leap".=20 Indeed, is it possible to believe that the specific activity of biologicall= y-active molecules (e.g. histamine, caffeine, nicotine, adrenalin), not to = mention the immunological signature of a virus or bacterium can be recorded= and digitized using a computer sound card, just like an ordinary sound?=20 Imagine the perplexity of Archimedes confronted with a telephone, and being= told that by using it he could be heard on the other side of the world, we= re we not to explain the nature of sound waves or their translation into el= ectromagnetism. Life depends on signals exchanged among molecules. For example, when you ge= t angry, adrenalin "tells" its receptor, and it alone (as a faithful molecu= le, it talks to no other) to make your heart beat faster, to contract super= ficial blood vessels, etc.. In biology, the words "molecular signal" are us= ed very often.=20 Yet, if you ask even the most eminent biologists what the physical nature o= f this signal is, they seem not even to understand the question, and stare = at you wide-eyed.=20 In fact, they've cooked up a rigorously Cartesian physics all their own, as= far removed as possible from the realities of contemporary physics, accord= ing to which simple contact (Descarte's laws of impact, quickly disproved b= y Huygens) between two coalescent structures creates energy, thus constitut= ing an exchange of information. For many years, I believed and recited this= catechism without realizing its absurdity, just as mankind did not realize= the absurdity of the belief that the sun circles the earth. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 10 HEALING & MEDICINE Attitudes are changing, and alternative medicine is becoming a fast growing= segment in Western medicine. It is gaining official political recognition = and more widespread acceptance among western healthcare providers.=20 It is no longer considered only an eastern medical regimen. In fact, a sign= ificant increase in the number of alternative medical providers is expected= to rise drastically within this decade (Kligman, 1998). Kligman also proje= cts that by the year 2010, practitioners of alternative medicine will grow = by 88%, rather than the 16% estimated rise in the number of traditional med= ical practitioners (Kligman).=20 Key research studies show that CAM are gaining acceptance by healthcare pro= viders. Prayer is especially growing as an alternative method for healing. = Additional research is needed to demonstrate further the effectiveness of p= rayer as a CAM modality for mind/body healing.=20 http://www.rednova.com/news/display/?id=3D99038 Theosophy offers: =E2=80=9C=E2=80=A6we are doing much to make known the importance of mesmeri= c science, for wherever we have been we have spared no pains to show the cl= ose and intimate relationship that exists between our modern discoveries in= mesmerism, psychometry, and odic force, and the ancient Indian Science of = Yoga-Vidya. We look forward with confidence to a day when the thorough demo= nstration of this connection will give to both Asia and Europe the basis fo= r a perfect, because experimentally demonstrable, science of Psychology.=E2= =80=9D [Blavatsky, Collected Works, xiii. 362-3] "Now, if besides health, power of will, knowledge of science, and benevolen= t compassion on the healer=E2=80=99s part, there be also faith, passivity, = and the requisite attractive polarity, on that of the patient, the effect i= s the more rapid and amazing. Or, if faith be lacking and still there be th= e necessary polaric receptivity, the cure is still possible.=20 And again, if there be in the patient alone a faith supreme and unshakable = in the power of a healer, of a holy relic, of the touch of a shrine, of the= waters of a well, of a pilgrimage to a certain place and a bath in some sa= cred river, of any given ceremonies, or repetition of charms or an amulet w= orn about the neck=E2=80=94in either of these or many more agencies that mi= ght be named, then the patient will cure himself by the sole power of his = predisposed faith." -HPB, "THE POWER TO HEAL" [The Theosophist, Vol. IV, No. 7, April, 1883, pp. 158-160] =E2=80=9CThe whole issue of the quarrel between the profane and the esoteri= c sciences depends upon the belief in, and demonstration of, the existence = of an astral body within the physical, the former independent of the latter= .=E2=80=9D --SD II, 149 =E2=80=9CMesmerism has been called the Key to the Occult Sciences, and it h= as this advantage that it offers peculiar opportunities for doing good.=E2= =80=9D -HPB Article =E2=80=9CSPIRITUAL PROGRESS=E2=80=9D =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D 12 Here is a partial list of such discoveries / inventions --------------------------------------------- INVENTIONS AND DISCOVERIES A Brief survey of Ancient and Modern Events, History & Science 1 ANCIENT B C=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D DATE INDIVIDUAL DISCOVERY or INVENTION =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D A D on =09 1,400 to 1,500 AD=09 Renaissance in Europe sparked by discovery=20 of ancient texts preserved by Arab scholars through Europe's Dark Ages. 1,500 to 1,600 AD=09 1,543 Visalius First accurate HUMAN ANATOMY published=09 Copernicus Theorizes Earth and Planets revolve around the Sun 1,572 Tycho Brahe observes a SUPER-NOVA -- Celestial=20 bodies are not unchanging 1,600 to 1,700 AD 1,609 Galileo observes Sun spots, ,Moon's craters, Earth's movement observes Jupiter's satellites 1,609 Kepler sets out laws of planetary motion 1,614 Napier invents Logarithms (speeds up computing) 1,628 Harvey describes blood circulation 1,674 Leeuwenhoek compound microscope -- sees=20 micro-organisms 1,687 Newton gravity and motion combine Earth and celestial bodies into dynamic relations calculus 1,700 to 1,800 AD 1,704 Newton - Theory of optics expose 1,735 Linnaeus Systema Naturae - classification and=20 naming organisms 1,752 Franklin Electricity in Lightning demonstrated 1,774 Priestley Oxygen discovered Named in 1779 by=20 =09=09=09=09=09 1779 Lavoisier Named OXYGEN, quantitative chemistry 1,781 Herschel Uranus discovered 1,795 Hutton Theory of the Earth - Geology begins 1,795 Jenner Vaccination vs. smallpox 1,800 to 1,900 AD 1,800 Volta Electric Battery 1,808 Dalton Atomic Theory of matter 1,818 Berzelius Atomic Weights table published 1,820 Orsted Magnetism and Electricity connected 1,831 Faraday Electric induction demonstrated 1,857 Pasteur Fermentation caused by microorganisms leads to Pasteurization 1,859 Spectroscopy suggests stars have=20 chemical composition similar to Earth 1,859 Darwin The Origin of Species 1,865 Mendel Genetic laws of Heredity (not included in evolution theory till 1,900) 1,884 Maxwell Electromagnetic equations developed 1,871 Mendeleyev Periodical Table of Elements 1,877 ISIS UNVEILED (book) H.P.Blavatsky Telephone Bell Electric Lamp . . . Edison Phonograph . . . Edison D C Current Generation & Motors Edison 1,877 A C Power Transmission . Tesla A C Motor Development . Steinmetz & Tesla 1,883 Rayon 1,884 Manganese Steel Fountain Pen Trolley, Tram Steam Turbine Dirigible . . . Renard & Krebs 1,885 A.C. Transformer Tesla Linotype Mergenthaler 1,887 Radio Waves . . . Hertz Monotype Lanston 1,888 2 Tube Pneumatic Tires Goodyear Adding Machine Burroughs Daimler Automobile Daimler Transparent Photographic Film Eastman Induction Motor A.C. Tesla 1,888 THE SECRET DOCTRINE H.P.Blavatsky 1,889 Cordite Explosive Abel & Dewar 1,890 Spectro-Heliograph Hale & Deslandres 1,891 Indurite Explosive Monroe 1,893 Motion Picture: Kinetoscope Edison Parliament of Religions, Chicago T S Convention Judge 1,894 Submarine - Argonaut Holland & Lake Dry Air Blast Furnace Socialism/Communism Theory Marx / Engels=09=09 1,895 Motion Picture Projector X-RAYS . . . Roentgen=09 =09=09 Wireless . . . Marconi=09 Psychology of Personality Freud, Brewer Animal Reflexes . . Pavlov 1,896 Disc Plow Deere (?) Electro-Therapy . . Finsen Radioactivity . . . Bequerel 1,897 Atom is not Solid . . Thompson, Rutherford Cathode Rays . . . Thompson 1,898 Radium . . . Curies 1,899 Wireless in general use Hague - 1st Moral Conference =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 1,900 to Present 1,900 Quantum Theory . . Planck & Einstein Mutation in Plants . . Van-Vries Cosmic Rays . . . Eitel 1st Airplane Flight . . Wright brothers Diesel Motor . . . Diesel Vacuum Tube for Radio . De Forest 1,901 High Speed Steel 1,902 Photograph Transmitted by Wire 1,903 Beta Rays . . . Rutherford 1,905 Relativity Theory . . Einstein Quantum Theory. . . Planck 1,909 Synthetic Resin, Backelite Electron charge Measured . Millikan 1,912 Continental Drift & Plate Tectonics (1960s) 1,913 Fixation of Nitrogen . . Haber Electron Movement Theory Bohr 1,917 Communism - Bolshevism (Russia) Lenin, Trotsky to 1,920 Microworld and Quantum Mechanics adopted 1,918 Sun a marginal star in Milky Way Galaxy Shapley 1,919 Theory of Relativity Einstein 1,922-5 Dinosaur Eggs first discovered Tut-Ank-Hamen's Tomb discovered C 1,923 Theories of acids/bases developed Tooth decaying germs identified Vitamin E identified [ 4th vitamin ] 1,923-7 Quantum Mechanics . . Heisenberg 1,924 Recognition of Stars Beyond our Galaxy 1,925 Behaviorism Founded=09=09=09 Taung Skull unearthed 1,926 Liquid Propellant first used in Rockets Urease, the first Enzyme isolated Wave Mechanics introduced . Schrodinger X-Ray Mutations in Fruit Flies 1,927 Uncertainty Principle . . Heisenberg 1,928 Penicillin Discovered . . Fleming Electron Theory . . Dirac 1,929 Reversals of Earth's Magnetic Fields Discovered=20 Uniformly Expanding Universe Theory Hubble=20 Hydrogen in Deep space-fuel of Stars Russell 1,930 Anti-Particles proposed Superfluid Liquid Helium discovered 1,930 Freon & Polyvinyl Chloride Invented Pluto Discovered 1,931 Incompleteness of Arithmetic . Godel 1,932-3 Neutron discovered, Electron Research Schrodinger 1,932 Radio emissions detected from deep space Jansky=09 1,934 Mitochondria isolated Hormones found to regulate Insect metamorphosis 1,935 Earthquake Strength Scale developed Richter Nylon invented 1,936 Radiometric Dating invented 1,937 Computation using a revolving machine 1,938 Theory of Ice Ages advance/recession due to Earth's Rotation / Wobble 1,939 DDT discovered Theory of Star Combustion advanced 1,940 Lascaux Cave discovered - Stone-Age Paintings 1,942 Sustained Nuclear Chain Reaction 1,945 Digital computer 1,944 Genes discovered to be made of DNA Watson & Crick (1956) 1,946 Carbon-14 Dating developed 1,949 X-Ray Astronomy began 1,949 Transistors 1,951 Commercial Computer built Genes transfer in Chromosomes Maize 1,952 Calves from Frozen Serum 1,953 Piltdown Skull exposed as fraud Polio Vaccine Successfully developed Salk Double Helix structure of DNA discovered REM (rapid eye movement) discovered / dreams 1,955 Artificial Diamonds synthesized 1,956 Atlantic/Pacific mid-Oceanic Ridge=20 recognized - Global ? 1,957 Sputnik space vehicle launched 1,958 Porpoises found to use echo-location 1,959 Microchip invented Bacterial Drug Resistance mechanism discovered Theory of Innate Grammar Capacity advanced 1,960 Gas discharge Laser 1.960 / 8 Plate Tectonics adopted=20 1,960 Chimpanzee Observation commenced Goodall Seafloor spreading hypothesis developed Laser demonstrated 1,962 Noble Gases yield compounds Silent Spring published . . Carson =09 Brain Hemisphere Differences explored 1,963 Quasar discovered 1,964 Animal Altruism explained Genetically High-Yield Rice developed - Green Revolution Fossils of 1.8 million year old Homo-Habilis Leaky Sub-atomic Quarks theory introduced 1,965 Cosmic Microwave Background discovered 1,967 Human Heart transplanted Pulsars discovered 1,968 Genetic Code explained 1,969 Gene cloned 1,969 reach Moon Armstrong & Aldrin 1,972 Possible "Black Hole" discovered "Punctuated Equilibrium" Theory developed 1,973 Nuclear Magnetic Resonance [ MRI ] developed 1,974 Quark Theory proved by Experiments Chloroflurocarbons recognized as Threat to Ozone layer 1,975 Socio-biology Launched 1,976 Cancer causing Gene Identified 1,977 Voyager I sent out - Photos of Planets 1,977 Hydrothermal Vent colonies discovered on Ocean floor 1,978 4 million old Fossil of Lucy discovered Leaky First "Test-Tube Baby" born 1,979 Voyager 1 discovers Volcanic activity on Io ( Moon of Jupiter ) 1,980 Gene added to mouse experimentally Theory of Meteor Impact and Dinosaur wipe-out Alvarez 1,981 AIDS first recognized [ Africa ? ] 1,983-4 HIV isolated 1,985 Buckyball (60 C atoms) discovered B. Fuller Antarctic Ozone Hole discovered 1,986 "High-temperature" Super-conductivity discovered "Acid Rain" proved to damage US Lakes, Forests, Life 1,987 Manic Depression - molecular genetic studies 1,989 Great Walls of Galaxies discovered - "Bubbles" 1,990 Voyager II sent out 1,990 Hubble Telescope into space -- Photos 1,990 "Big Bang" hypothesis Gene therapy used on humans 1,992 Extra Solar System planets detected =09 Dioxin recognized as a hormone mimicking pollutant =09 Imprint of a Primordial Cosmic Fluctuation noted 1,993-4 Fermat's last Theorem proved 1,994 Mutant Gene detected in Breast Cancer Genetic Engineering experiments 1,996 Martian Meteorite shows traces of primitive bacteria Sequencing of Wheat Genome completed 1,997 Cloned Sheep born 2,000 Human Genome Project Catalogue of our Genes =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 13 "Thoughts are things =E2=80=94 have tenacity, coherence, and life, =E2=80= =94 that they are real entities..." M .*. K.H.=20 Using crystals formed from distilled water as a base comparison, Emoto star= ts out by showing us photos of crystals from several rivers in Japan. The f= irst shocking discovery was that very polluted water either has no crystal = structure when it is frozen or else the crystals are very distorted and par= tial.=20 http://www.planetdeb.net/best/181.html In contrast, photos from clear mountain streams are well-formed. Surprising= ly, crystals from mystical or sacred places like Lourdes in France and Tenk= awa (a river near a Shinto shrine where I once did a Hawaiian shaman ritual= ) are beautiful, but their centers are empty.=20 Later, there are before and after photos of frozen water subjected to heavy= metal, classical and sad music, positive and negative printed words taped = to the sides of sample bottles; and even positive and negative thoughts. Th= e results of that are about what you would expect if you know Huna.=20 However, the most exciting experiment in my opinion was one in which a samp= le of water was taken from a polluted dam in Japan and then frozen and phot= ographed. Next, a Buddhist priest sat by the water and spent an hour in pra= yer. Immediately after another sample was taken, frozen and photographed. Y= ou can see the results below.=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 14 DNA PHANTOM EFFECT "The whole issue of the quarrel between the profane and the esoteric scienc= es depends upon the belief in, and demonstration of, the existence of an as= tral body within the physical, the former independent of the latter." [Sec= ret Doctrine II,149] DNA Phantom Effect In this contribution I am going to describe some observations and interpret= ations of a recently discovered anomalous phenomenon which we are calling t= he DNA Phantom Effect in Vitro or the DNA Phantom for short.=20 We believe this discovery has tremendous significance for the explanation a= nd deeper understandings of the mechanisms underlying subtle energy phenome= na including many of the observed alternative healing phenomena [1,2]. This= data also supports the heart intelligence concept and model developed by D= oc Lew Childre [3,4]. (See also contributions by Rollin McCraty and Glen Re= in in this volume).=20 http://twm.co.nz/DNAPhantom.htm Subtle Energy Research Subtle energy is used in this context as Einstein used it, that is, to desc= ribe a type of energy that is at present not fully understood or measurable= with today's equipment. This is similar to how electromagnetism was viewed= only 250 years ago. The effects could be seen but not directly measured.=20 http://twm.co.nz/SubtleEnergy.html In the early 1990s, Moscow's Russian Academy of Sciences reported a startli= ng relationship between DNA and the qualities of light, measured as photons= .17 In a report detailing these early studies, Dr. Vladimir Poponin describ= ed a series of experiments suggesting that human DNA directly affects the p= hysical world through a new and previously unknown field connecting the two= . Recognized as a leading expert in the field of quantum biology, Dr. Popon= in was on loan to an American research institution when this series of expe= riments was carried out.=20 http://www.planetdeb.net/best/184.html So, what is Primary Perception? Cleve Backster coined the term in a letter written to J. B. Rhine, of parap= sychology fame, over three and a half decades ago. Rhine had jumped on Clev= e's demonstrations of plant reactions with a Galvanic Skin Response, but wh= en Cleve refused to be taken under his wing, Rhine became rather contentiou= s, calling Cleve's discoveries some form of ESP. Cleve wrote to him saying,= "You know, it seems that as a result of our experiments to date, that this= is not extra-sensory. This is a primary perception that is before the spec= ialized senses, so calling it ESP seems like a misnomer." There just may be= an invisible web that links all of creation, that shows up in the lab as i= mpulses on a GSR, the EKG or the EEG.=20=20 http://www.primaryperception.com/ The Conscious Brain The Conscious Brain as the role model for the Computer. Information as Mean= ing. What Brains Process. Quantum Information Processing/Holography - an ex= planation of the morphology and dynamics of Living Systems, DNA, the Biolog= ical Cell,.....the Brain, Consciousness, Natural Languages and Creativity. http://www.bcs.org.uk/siggroup/cyber/bcs_cmg.htm =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 15 GIANT PROXIMITY EFFECT (GPE) & SUPERCONDUCTORS The Giant Proximity Effect (GPE) is a theoretical relative of the establish= ed Proximity Effect (PE), in which a very thin layer of =E2=80=98normal=E2= =80=99 metal behaves like a superconductor when placed between two thicker = superconductor slices. However, PE theory states that GPE, which occurs acr= oss a relatively thick normal metal layer, should not be possible.=20 http://www.physorg.com/news1635.html Almost five centuries B.C. Leucippus, the instructor of Democritus, maintai= ned that Space was filled eternally with atoms actuated by a ceaseless moti= on, the latter generating in due course of time, when those atoms aggregate= d, rotatory motion, through mutual collisions producing lateral movements. = =20 Epicurus and Lucretius taught the same, only adding to the lateral motion o= f the atoms the idea of affinity=E2=80=94an occult teaching. [SD I, 2] =E2=80=9CThe Monads (of Leibnitz) may from one point of view be called forc= e, from another matter. To occult Science, force and matter are only two si= des of the same SUBSTANCE.=E2=80=9D (=E2=80=9CPath,=E2=80=9D No. 1O, p. 297= .) Let the reader remember these =E2=80=9CMonads=E2=80=9D of Leibnitz, ever= y one of which is a living mirror of the universe, every monad reflecting e= very other=E2=80=A6[=E2=80=9CGods, Monads & Atoms=E2=80=9D -SD I, 623] =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D 16 SOLID REALITY Here's a different view of "solid reality": The most mind-boggling aspect of Pribram's holographic model of the brain i= s what happens when it is put together with Bohm's theory. http://twm.co.nz/hologram.html#Karl%20Pribram For if the concreteness of the world is but a secondary reality and what is= "there" is actually a holographic blur of frequencies, and if the brain is= also a hologram and only selects some of the frequencies out of this blur = and mathematically transforms them into sensory perceptions, what becomes o= f objective reality?=20 Put quite simply, it ceases to exist.=20 As the religions of the East have long upheld, the material world is Maya, = an illusion, and although we may think we are physical beings moving throug= h a physical world, this too is an illusion. We are really "receivers" floating through a kaleidoscopic sea of frequency= , and what we extract from this sea and transmogrify into physical reality = is but one channel from many extracted out of the superhologram. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -- "W.Dallas TenBroeck" wrote: Oct 7 2004 Dear Mark: It seems to me that the progress in growing intelligence for every Monad in manifestation, begins, as taught, in the 7-fold evolutionary scheme -- as a= n immortal it begins in the depths of the "monadic essence" (whatever that ma= y be) [S D I 176, 178-9, 612, 632-3, II 109-19, ] [Space and the frontier= s of the=20 Universe are (for us) undefinable.] It then passes (says THEOSOPHY ) through all the various stages of experien= ce and development, up to the human (mind) stage. Thereafter its progress becomes self-regulated, employing the "will" and th= e power of free choice.=20 We are given a glimpse of the future possibilities of the evolving Monad as it passes on -- [described in the last pages of The VOICE OF THE SILENCE ]. There are many gaps and much appears scattered, in the way of information, = if not left unsaid. Personally, I prefer a "spiritual" future to a futile cessation of effort a= nd nullification of results that the death of the present physical body wou= ld seem to entail. Best wishes, Dallas =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: Mark K=20 Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 9:21 AM To:=20 Subject: Rocks and thought Jerry (& Zaak) Wrote: ><< A rock is a thought in a manifested state.>> > >??? A rock is a host of monads in a particular collective arrangement that >we label "rock." Its manas is dormant and so a rock has no thoughts. You >are obviously using the word "thought" in some kind of special way, one >that I do not understand. > It is "the particular collective arrangement" that is the operative=20 phrase here. What governs that particular arranging to produce & differentiate=20 conventionally existent forms? What faculty or activity? How? Perhaps this type of 'thought" is a reference to Blavatsky's notion of=20 "Cosmic Ideation" or the contents thereof. Another way to put it might=20 be to say this refers to the notion of classical Platonic=20 "archetypes"(as contrasted with the Jungian psychological use of the=20 term.... perhaps they are related.) Where do the models for any manifested forms come from? Even if we=20 acknowledge that they are mayavic and empty of inherent existence, they=20 are temporary 'things" that man did not create. Whence comes the=20 informing intelligence that guides the arrangement of monadic hosts that=20 we label galaxies, solar systems, planets or any of the myriad=20 geometries directing atoms to adhere, chemicals to bond, minerals to=20 crystalize, vegetables to grow, etc? This may indeed be 'karma in=20 action' or the 'activity of manas' as a creative naming function, but it=20 definitely seems extended beyond the scale of conscious humanity. While we all may conceptually acknowledge recognizing a particular=20 arrangement as a "tree", for example, can anyone of us, as waking=20 conscious personalities, claim to have created it? If you run into=20 it while jogging or it falls on top of you in a storm, can you will it=20 out of existence by simply calling it 'maya' or 'mind only?' To merely attribute the forms of cosmic creation to karma or thought,=20 especially at the human scale, seems a tad oversimplified, no? Just wondering. ;-) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D 17 Does Objective Reality Exist, or is the Universe a Phantasm?=20 http://twm.co.nz/hologram.html#Karl%20Pribram In 1982 a remarkable event took place. At the University of Paris a researc= h team led by physicist Alain Aspect performed what may turn out to be one= of the most important experiments of the 20th century.=20 You did not hear about it on the evening news. In fact, unless you are in t= he habit of reading scientific journals you probably have never even heard = Aspect's name, though there are some who believe his discovery may change t= he face of science.=20 Aspect and his team discovered that under certain circumstances subatomic p= articles such as electrons are able to instantaneously communicate with eac= h other regardless of the distance separating them. It doesn't matter wheth= er they are 10 feet or 10 billion miles apart. Somehow each particle always= seems to know what the other is doing.=20 The problem with this feat is that it violates Einstein's long-held tenet t= hat no communication can travel faster than the speed of light. Since trave= ling faster than the speed of light is tantamount to breaking the time barr= ier, this daunting prospect has caused some physicists to try to come up wi= th elaborate ways to explain away Aspect's findings. But it has inspired ot= hers to offer even more radical explanations.=20 But the most mind-boggling aspect of Pribram's holographic model of the bra= in is what happens when it is put together with Bohm's theory.=20 http://twm.co.nz/hologram.html#Karl%20Pribram For if the concreteness of the world is but a secondary reality and what is= "there" is actually a holographic blur of frequencies, and if the brain is= also a hologram and only selects some of the frequencies out of this blur = and mathematically transforms them into sensory perceptions, what becomes o= f objective reality? Put quite simply, it ceases to exist. As the religions= of the East have long upheld, the material world is Maya, an illusion, and= although we may think we are physical beings moving through a physical wor= ld, this too is an illusion.=20 We are really "receivers" floating through a kaleidoscopic sea of frequency= , and what we extract from this sea and transmogrify into physical reality = is but one channel from many extracted out of the superhologram.=20 ------------------------------ This striking new picture of reality, the synthesis of Bohm and Pribram's v= iews, has come to be called the-holographic paradigm, and although many sci= entists have greeted it with skepticism, it has galvanized others. A small = but growing group of researchers believe it may be the most accurate model = of reality science has arrived at thus far. More than that, some believe it= may solve some mysteries that have never before been explainable by scienc= e and even establish the paranormal as a part of nature. Numerous researche= rs, including Bohm and Pribram, have noted that many para-psychological phe= nomena become much more understandable in terms of the holographic paradigm= .=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 18 Earth 'n Sync http://www.spacekids.com/spacenews/earth_sings_000403.html Earth sings like a canary. Yep, you heard right. As Earth goes whizzing and= whirling around the sun, it hums. If it were several octaves higher - we'd= be able to hear it. But the Earth hums notes too low for human ears. Where= is the humming coming from? It's a mystery. Scientists know that sound wav= es in the atmosphere correspond to similar waves underground. What gets the= sound waves started could be changes in air pressure, or maybe the poundin= g of ocean waves. Do all planets sing? Some scientists think our two closes= t cousins Mars and Venus might be harmonizing along with Earth. THE EARTH HUMS MORE LOUDLY IN THE AFTERNOONS http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf122/sf122p10.htm It has been known for almost a century that large earthquakes set the earth= to ringing like a bell. In SF#118, we reported that the planet also "hums"= when there have been no earthquakes. Just what forces stimulate this seism= ic humming of the earth-as-a-whole is still a matter of conjecture.=20 Actually, "hum" is a poor choice of words. The period of these vibrations r= anges from 3 to 8 minutes, which puts them in the range of infrasound.=20 Recently, N. Suda of Nagoya University has found a clue suggesting that thu= nderstorms may excite these very-lowfrequency vibrations.=20 Suda and his colleagues analyzed the seismic records at four seismically qu= iet locations around the globe and discovered that the hum is loudest betwe= en noon and 8 PM local time. The quietest period is from midnight to 6 AM. = These are the same time frames when thunderstorms are most active and quiet= . It's circumstantial evidence, but it makes sense.=20 (Kerr, Richard A.; "Earth Seems to Hum along with the Wind," Science, 283:3= 21, 1999.)=20 Comment. Infrasound in the atmosphere may originate from storms thousands o= f miles away and from strong winds blowing across mountain crests. It appea= rs that the earth is an immense, spherical aeolian harp!=20 =20 Scientists believe they have pinpointed the origin of a low frequency "hum"= that emanates from the Earth.=20 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3701944.stm The noise - which can be picked up in the two and seven mHz (millihertz) ra= nge - occurs far below the threshold of human hearing, US researchers said.= A University of California team propose the hum is a product of storm ener= gy being converted into other forms in the Pacific and Southern Oceans. Det= ails of the study appear this week in the academic journal Nature. The scie= ntists say they have ruled out earthquakes as the source =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -- "W.Dallas TenBroeck" wrote:=20 Re: On the subject of "HUMMING." THE EARTH HUMS. I read in U S NEWS AND WORLD REPORT, Pre-Dated. Oct. 11, 2004, p 16 That since 1998 (year of discovery) the Earth has been known to hum at a very low rate of vibration. Per,: Dr. B Romanowicz. Dallas =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: Odin [mailto:otownley@netzero.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 8:56 AM To: otownley@netzero.com Subject: Music and the Brain Use Humming and Toning to Tune Up Your Brain http://www.brainplace.com/bp/music/default.asp In the Mozart Effect, Don Campbell, founder of the Institute of Music, Health and Education, lists the benefits of using your voice to enhance moo= d and memory. He says that all forms of vocalization, including singing, chanting, yodeling, humming, reciting poetry, or simply talk can be therapeutic. "Nothing rivals toning," he concludes. The word 'toning' goes back to the fourteenth century and means to make sounds with elongated vowels for extended periods of time. Ah, ou (such as in soup), ee, ay, oh and om are examples of toning sounds.=20 Campbell writes that when people tone on a regular basis for 5 minutes a day, "I have witnessed thousands of people relax into their voices, become more centered in their bodies, release fear and other emotions, and free themselves from physical pain.I have seen many people apply toning in practical ways, from relaxing before a dreaded test to eliminating symptoms of tinnitus or migraine headaches. Toning has been effective in relieving insomnia and other sleep disorders..Toning balances brain waves, deepens the breath, reduces the heart rate and imparts a general sense of well-being." Campbell reports tha= t in his experience certain sounds tend to have certain effects on the body and emotions:=20 Ahhh - immediately evokes a relaxation response,=20 Ee or Ay - is the most stimulating of vowel sounds, helps with concentration, releasing pain and anger,=20 Oh or Om - considered the richest of sounds, can warm skin temperature and relax muscle tension. Try toning for 5 minutes a day for 2 weeks to see if it will help you.=20 In a similar way, humming can also make a positive difference in mood and memory. Mozart hummed as he composed. Children hum when they are happy. Adults often hum tunes that go through their minds, lifting their spirits and tuning their mind. Consciously focus on humming during the day. As the sound activates your brain, you will feel more alive and your brain will feel more tuned in to the moment.=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D 19 >Two questions, then.=20 How real or imaginary is the Sound Current/Voice >of the Silence/Music of the Spheres as described by >Radhasoami/Theosophy/Cayce respectively?=20=20 And does this matter in terms of whether or not it is useful, productive, a= dvisable as a >meditation technique Leon Maurer answers: I think that the expression "hearing the music of the spheres" is=20 metaphorical -- in that it refers to the spherical nature of the higher ord= er fields of=20 consciousness that initially involve harmonically out of the primal Absolut= e=20 laya point and its surrounding spinergy -- as fractalized spheres in triune= =20 groups... One such "monad" inside the other, like bubbles within bubbles wi= thin=20 bubbles, etc. See: http://users.aol.com/uniwldarts/uniworld.artisans.guild/chakrafield.html http://users.aol.com/leonmaurer/invlutionflddiagnotate.gif Since, an understanding of this infinitely divisible, multidimensional=20 spherical form of the Universe is based on the fundamental laws of cycles t= hat lead=20 to infinite coenergetic harmonics between the fields -- and thus, can guide= us=20 to a clear comprehension of how nature works analogously and correspondingl= y=20 to organize self generating systems of life in infinite combinations and=20 complexities, yet in perfect harmony, like music (and with the zero-point=20 consciousness that is everywhere with its awareness and will pulling the st= rings) --=20 this awakening of understanding of that reality can be metaphorically refer= red=20 to as "hearing (realizing, sensing, imagining, etc.) the music of the spher= es." This all encompassing visualization, which links all the senses together in= a=20 multi-sensory graphical form that can be seen, heard, touched, smelled tast= ed=20 and mentally comprehended simultaneously, is what is meant by "hearing the= =20 voice of the silence," and seeing the "word" (or vibrational patterns of=20 vibrational energies) that, as Krishna said, "establishes this whole Univer= se with a=20 single portion of itself, and remains separate."=20=20 This is what all those gurus mentioned below were trying to say -- before=20 there was an explanation "in the language of this age" that would be consis= tent=20 with what people know today as "modern science" since Einstein opened the d= oor=20 soon after HPB left the scene.=20 Could this, and the scientific breakthroughs (and metaphysical linkages) th= at=20 followed, have been what HPB meant by the "New Message" that was to come=20 before the advent of the 21st century? (And, isn't it wise of the Masters = not to=20 have sent a recognizable "Messenger" -- since theosophy didn't need another= =20 "Messiah" or "high Priestess" to gum up the works? :-) In any event, such a visualization and the ideation's it leads to certainly= =20 is a great aid to ones meditation practices. In fact, it could very well b= e=20 the most essential key in attaining enlightenment... Since it encapsulates= =20 everything taught in the Secret Doctrine (as "The Synthesis of Science, Rel= igion=20 and Philosophy") along with the Voice of the Silence -- without dependence = on=20 faith, priests, messiahs or a personal God.=20 Leon Maurer http://tellworld.com/Astro.Biological.Coenergetics/ABC_bw.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 20 CLEAN ENVIRONMENT Dr. Brian O'Leary Addressed the New Energy Movement Conference in Portland,= Sept. 26, 3004. Aiming for energy solutions that are clean, have zero emis= sions, are affordable to everyone on the planet, feasible and reliable, ben= ign (no weapons use), decentralized, and are publicly accountable (no secre= ts). http://www.pureenergysystems.com/events/conferences/2004/NewEnergyMovement/= 6900048_BrianOLeary_SunAM/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 21 a SQUID (Superconducting Quantum Interference Device) has discovered that = MAGNETIC FIELDS several hundred times stronger than background noise AND = HEALING KIRILLIAN PHOTOGRAPHY Dr. John Zimmerman of the University of Colorado, using a SQUID (Supercondu= cting Quantum Interference Device) has discovered that magnetic fields seve= ral hundred times stronger than background noise are created around the han= ds of trained healers when doing healing work on patients. No such fields a= re created by 'sham' healers making the same movements, indicating somethin= g special is happening with the trained healers. The frequencies of the mag= netic fields surrounding the hands of the trained healers were of the alpha= and theta wave range similar to those seen in the brain of meditators"=20 Aura of LIVING water http://www.kirlian.org/kirlian/korotov/thaiouba/nontraduse.htm#crystals,%20= minerals%20and%20water One of the most fascinating research directions on Earth at present is the = study of the Aura and bio-energetic structure of water. This research is co= nducted in Russia by Prof. K.Korotkov.=20 =20 Two Kirlian Aura images of seemingly identical drops of water, kindly provi= ded by Prof Korotkov, are shown. The left image depicts Aura vibration arou= nd a drop of normal water and the right image shows the Aura around a drop = charged by the famous Russian healer Allan Chumak during ten minutes of con= scious concentration. The difference in the bio-energy glow is dramatic: th= e bio-charged water has more than 30 times stronger Aura vibration and sign= ificantly altered physical and biological properties.=20=20 Contemporary physics cannot explain the above change in water glow which, t= echnically speaking, is a purely physical process involving an electrical d= ischarge in air around the drop. The main reason for this is that a great m= ajority of =E2=80=9Cscientists=E2=80=9D on Earth completely ignore our cons= ciousness in their perception of Reality. Prof. K.Korotkov says that the in= crease in the Aura around a drop of water cannot be explained without consi= dering the energy and vibration of our consciousness. Water Aura experiment= s are indisputable evidence that our mind, when properly trained, can drama= tically change the qualities of matter.=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 22 This device shouldn't work. But it does. This amazing device measures what = is currently not even recognized by western science.=20=20=20 http://www.kirlian.org/interesting/egely/leiras2.htm =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 23 SECRET DOCTRINE AND NEW SCIENCE The Benefit Of Clinical Mental Health "We have shown in The Secret Doctrine that everything in this world of effe= cts has three attributes or the triple synthesis of the seven principles. I= n order to state this more clearly, let us say that everything which exists= in this, our world, is made up of three principles and four aspects, just = as is the case with man himself.=20 As man is a composite being, consisting of a body, a rational soul and an i= mmortal spirit, so each object in nature has an objective exterior, a vital= soul, and a divine spark which is purely spiritual and subjective. As the = first of these propositions cannot be denied, the second can hardly be eith= er, for if official Science admits that metals, woods, minerals, powders an= d drugs can produce effects, then it tacitly recognises the latter. As for = the third, the presence of an absolute quintessence in every atom, material= ism, which has no use for the anima mundi, utterly denies it." ... "I have tried to prove in The Secret Doctrine, seven interpretations varyin= g in meaning with their application to one or another of the domains of nat= ure, the physical, the psychic, or the purely spiritual..." [H.P.Blavatsky, "ALCHEMY IN THE NINETEENTH CENTURY", CW Vol.XI] The below site was sent to me, and am sure HPB would highly approve their o= bjectives as consonant with that of the SD's "Synthesis of Science, Religio= n and Philosophy": http://www.johnemackinstitute.org/research.asp The John E. Mack Institute features research initiatives that bridge Wester= n and alternative traditions and examine healing phenomena to expand episte= mological and therapeutic modalities. When used exclusively, without the in= put of other approaches, Western methodology may impede our understanding o= f the world more than facilitate it. Through the investigation of self-tran= scendence, the Superconscious and deeper ways of knowing, we will generate = unique research for the benefit of clinical mental health.=20 =E2=80=9CAs I listen to people and also examine other cultures and time per= iods, what I'm struck by is how large and variegated human experience reall= y is. We aim to stand firmly on the border between the worlds of psychology= and spirituality, science and religion, and describe the vistas seen when = these traditionally disparate fields of study are allowed to cohere in the = natural and organic unity that is sought and achieved in an individual huma= n life. Doing so, I believe, will open the door, not only to seeing how fundamental= ly good and inter-connected all of life is, but also allow us to begin reco= vering pathways for spiritual development and capacities for self- -transce= ndence that remain largely untapped and latent, but within all of us. Medic= ine and psychiatry will be more succesful in their own missions if they und= erstand the nature of these capacities and the conditions which encourage t= heir growth.=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94Jeffrey Rediger, M.D., M.Div. http://www.johnemackinstitute.org/projects/project.asp?id=3D17 The Superconscious Self: Consciousness, Healing and Vitality The theory that both problems and treatments span the body, mind and spirit= will be explored through quantifiable research into how the healing proces= s is experienced in the physical, psychological, and spiritual domains. Too often in our culture we focus on the parts to the exclusion of the whol= e. =E2=80=9CSpiritual=E2=80=9D problems are the province of the cleric, =E2= =80=9Cemotional=E2=80=9D problems the domain of the psychologist or psychia= trist, =E2=80=9Cphysical=E2=80=9D problems the responsibility of the medica= l doctor. The efforts of this initiative are driven by the belief that ther= e also exists an all-important kinetic reciprocity between these dimensions= ; that to label certain inner experiences as the product of disease does no= t serve the client, that both problems and treatments span the body, mind a= nd spirit.=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 24 "Electron Crystals." Cornell Apparatus Probes The Mystery Of A High Temperature Superconductor http://www.spacedaily.com/news/physics-04zb.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 25 Reed Carson writes: You appear to be asking about the book "CATACLYSM!" that I reference=20 frequently. You can read a little about it at http://seekerbooks.com/atlantis/cataclysm/index.htm#1879181428 I should share my take on it. There are a number of excellent books out=20 there on Atlantis. Some closer than others in my opinion. Each that I=20 have in mind have something valuable to contribute. Each book when read=20 alone is very compelling. One can easily think one has "found" it when=20 reading that book. In my opinion the Cataclysm book however is a=20 necessity. The other books, when they fail to incorporate the info in the= =20 Cataclysm book, fail in the end to get things completely right. At best=20 they are incomplete. There is only one other alternative book I know of. "Atlantis Enigma" by=20 Herbie Brennan (at=20 http://seekerbooks.com/atlantis/cataclysm/index.htm#0425175049)=20 appears to me to have gotten much of its material from Cataclysm.=20=20 Brennan presents the material in a very readable form. It will be=20 good for many people. It is out of print and must be obtained used. The Cataclysm book however is the mother lode. It contains much empirical info. Every scientific term is explained briefly when first=20 used. It is heavier reading but a person can pick and choose and iterate=20 their way through the book in stages of study. I presume you have read the series on Atlantis that I have written so=20 far. Much more will be forthcoming starting sometime in September - so=20 please stay tuned. As to the rest of your letter: Yes we agree completely on the info contained in myths.=20=20 I do not know if you know or not, HPB goes to great lengths to insist on th= e importance of=20 myths. Yes the accuracy of Plato in the Critias should change our views of= =20 myths. Critics will say he must have been wrong because such a story=20 "could not" have been remembered that long. Of course the critics are=20 wrong. I will be saying more about myths later. It is astounding what=20 actually has been remembered for 12,000 years! (Note, also HPB asserts=20 multiple meanings to the myths. It gets to be a fulsome topic.) You say the axis did not shift. You must account for the instantly frozen= =20 mammoths. There are more geological facts on the ground to be accounted=20 for but that problem is the easiest to visualize.=20=20 [ see VELIKOVSKY=E2=80=99s books]=20 We agree on the nuclear winter. I say there was a mini ice-age lasting=20 2,000 years after the event. In other words - if there was a pleistocene=20 it started just after the alleged pleistocene ended. We agree on the "sea of mud". Later I will tell the exceeding odd story of= =20 the migrating eels versus the sea of mud. Asteroids are important to this story. Notice the asteroid belt. It=20 appears to be an exploded planet. I say the same cosmic intruder that=20 caused the disaster on earth caused the explosion of the planet that turned= =20 into the asteroid belt. Surpise - what becomes critical here are the translations of=20 Sitchen! Those translations as they relate to the destruction of that=20 planet are perhaps the most dramatic and fascinating confirmations of the=20 story. The Babylonians had records ultimately from eye witnesses. Some=20 myth. I will get to that story. (It is explained in Cataclysm.) So I suggest to you that the origin of the asteroid belt should fit into=20 the complete story. If you like the explanatory power of asteroids you should get "The Secret=20 of Atlantis" by Otto Muck. (At=20 http://seekerbooks.com/atlantis/locations/index.htm#0812907132)=20 He attributes the cause to two asteroids whose traces can still be found to= day=20 in the Atlantic off Florida. These are related to the Carolina Bays I=20 mentioned earlier. But I take these to be only part of the story. His=20 book is excellent. And I take it to be a very clear example of how one=20 needs the Cataclysm book to get the full picture. Yes of course flood myths are world wide. You mention planetary alignments. It appears to me the solar planetary=20 evidence is suggestive of a planetary alignment at the time of the disaster= . Yes the Mayan calendar is something to be taken seriously. It=20 is important to relate it to the disaster. But I say it was started still= =20 a significant amount of time after the disaster - a thousand years or so, I= =20 am not sure. And the Mayans in general should be tied into a complete=20 explanation. It seems highly likely they were Atlanteans. >From: bn-study digest [mailto:bn-study@lists.lyris.net] >Sent: Tuesday, 3 August 2004 5:00 PM >To: bn-study digest recipients >Subject: bn-study digest: August 02, 2004 > > >BN-STUDY Digest for Monday, August 02, 2004. > >1. Atlantis - the Culprit >2. Re: free will >3. Re: NEW RULE >4. Re: middle perspective >5. RE: NEW RULE >6. "PLAIN THEOSOPHICAL TRACES IN POETRY" >7. RE: NEW RULE >8. Re: TRUE OCCULTISM OR THEOSOPHY PART I >9. Re: free will > >20. RE: Atlantis - the Culprit >21. Re: free will >22. RE: Atlantis - the Culprit >23. RE: more on hypnotism versus Mesmerism >24. Re: free will >25. Re: middle perspective > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 26=09=09=09 =09=09 Re Keeley's Motor & "force" DALLAS WROTE >From the S D we can obtain key statements made by HPB.=20=20 They show that the Occultists knew quite well what Keeley was dealing with and what his special nature and its limits were. Let us remember that the Mahatmas certified that the SECRET DOCTRINE was th= e triple production of Their work and H P B as Their "messenger."=20 (see below) Re: KEELEY MOTOR [Summary of Secret Doctrine I, pp. 555 - 566] FROM A NULL POINT (LAYA POINT) TO ENERGY His inter-etheric point is the laya-point of the Occultists, which, however= , does not require "an infinite mind to understand it," but only a specific intuition and ability to trace its hiding-place in this world of matter. Of course, the laya centre cannot be produced, but an inter-etheric vacuum can=E2=80=94as proved in the production of bell-sounds in space.=20 Mr. Keely speaks as an unconscious Occultist, nevertheless, when he remarks in his theory of planetary suspension:=E2=80=94 "As regards planetary volume, we would ask in a scientific point of view, How can the immense difference of volume in the planets exist without disorganising the harmonious action that has always characterised them? I can only answer this question properly by entering into a progressive analysis, starting on the rotating etheric centres that were fixed =E2=80= =A6.. with their attractive or accumulative power. If you ask what power it is that gives to each etheric atom its inconceivable velocity of rotation (or introductory impulse), I must answer that no finite mind will ever be able to conceive what it is. The philosophy of accumulation is the only proof that such a power has been given.=20 The area, if we can so speak, of such an atom, presents to the attractive o= r magnetic, the elective or propulsive, all the receptive force and all the antagonistic force that characterises a planet of the largest magnitude; consequently, as the accumulation goes on, the perfect equation remains the same.=20 When this minute centre has once been fixed, the power to rend it from its position would necessarily have to be so great as to displace the most immense planet that exists. When this atomic neutral centre is displaced, the planet must go with it. The neutral centre carries the full load of any accumulation from the start, and remains the same, for ever balanced in the eternal space."=20 =E2=80=9C=E2=80=A6that principle in man which can control and guide etheric= vibratory force. At any rate it exists in all those mortals whose inner selves are primordially connected, by reason of their direct descent, with that group of Dhyan-Chohans who are called "the first-born of Ether."=20 Mankind, psychically considered, is divided into various groups, each of which is connected with one of the Dhyanic groups that first formed psychic man; (see paragraphs 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 in the Commentary to Stanza VII.)=20 Mr. Keely being greatly favoured in this respect, and moreover, besides his psychic temperament, being intellectually a genius in mechanics, may thus achieve most wonderful results. He has achieved some already=E2=80=94more t= han any mortal man, not initiated into the final mysteries, has achieved in this ag= e up to the present day. What he has done is certainly quite sufficient "to demolish with the hammer of Science the idols of Science"=E2=80=94the idols= of matter with the feet of clay=E2=80=A6.=20 Occultly this was a far more advanced achievement than the "success" which he anticipates from his "wire," but the results obtained from the fifth and sixth planes of the etheric (or Astral) Force, will never be permitted to serve for purposes of commerce and traffic. That Keely's organism is directly connected with the production of the marvellous results is proven by the following statement emanating from one who knows the great discovere= r intimately.=20 In this he is quite right; but this is electricity on the terrestrial plane= , and through terrestrial correlations. He estimates=E2=80=94 Molecular vibrations at 100,000,000 per second. Inter-molecular " " 300,000,000 " " Atomic " " 900,000,000 " " Inter-atomic " " 2,700,000,000 " " =C3=86theric " " 8,100,000,000 " " Inter-=C3=86theric " "24,300,000,000 " " This proves our point. There are no vibrations that could be counted or eve= n estimated at an approximate rate beyond "the realm of the fourth son of Fohat," using an occult phraseology, or that motion which corresponds to th= e formation of Mr. Crookes' radiant matter, or lightly called some years ago the "fourth state of matter"=E2=80=94on this our plane.=20 The MORAL FACTOR Occult philosophy divulges few of its most important vital mysteries. It drops them like precious pearls, one by one, far and wide apart, and only when forced to do so by the evolutionary tidal wave that carries on humanit= y slowly, silently, but steadily toward the dawn of the Sixth-Race mankind. For once out of the safe custody of their legitimate heirs and keepers, those mysteries cease to be occult: they fall into the public domain and have to run the risk of becoming in the hands of the selfish=E2=80=94of the= Cains of the human race=E2=80=94curses more often than blessings.=20 It will be at its appointed place and time only when the great roaring floo= d of starvation, misery, and underpaid labour ebbs back again=E2=80=94as it w= ill when happily at last the just demands of the many are attended to; when the proletariat exists but in name, and the pitiful cry for bread, that rings throughout the world unheeded, has died away.=20 This may be hastened by the spread of learning, and by new openings for wor= k and emigration, with better prospects than exist now, and on some new continent that may appear. Then only will "Keely's Motor and Force," as originally contemplated by himself and friends, be in demand, because it will be more needed by the poor than by the wealthy.=20 . . . "It is as platina [platinum] to hydrogen gas. Molecular separation of air brings us to the first sub-division only; inter-molecular, to the second; atomic, to the third; inter-atomic, to the fourth; etheric, to the fifth; and inter-etheric, to the sixth sub-division, or positive associatio= n with luminiferous ether.* In my introductory argument I have contended that this is the vibratory envelope of all atoms.=20 In my definition of atom I do not confine myself to the sixth sub-division where this luminiferous ether is developed in its crude form as far as my researches prove. =E2=80=A0 I think this idea will be pronounced by the phy= sicists of the present day, a wild freak of the imagination. Possibly, in time, a light may fall upon this theory that will bring its simplicity forward for scientific research. At present I can only compare it to some planet in a dark space, where the light of the sun of science has not yet reached it. . ."=20 "I assume that sound, like odour, is a real substance of unknown and wonderful tenuity, emanating from a body where it has been induced by percussion and throwing out absolute corpuscles of matter, inter-atomic particles, with velocity of 1,120 feet per second; in vacuo 20,000.=20 The substance which is thus disseminated is a part and parcel of the mass agitated, and, if kept under this agitation continuously, would, in the course of a certain cycle of time, become thoroughly absorbed by the atmosphere; or, more truly, would pass through the atmosphere to an elevate= d point of tenuity corresponding to the condition of sub-division that govern= s its liberation from its parent body." . . .=20 VIBRATIONS: ODOR, SOUND "As regards odour, we can only get some definite idea of its extreme and wondrous tenuity by taking into consideration that a large area of atmosphere can be impregnated for a long series of years from a single grai= n of musk; which, if weighed after that long interval, will be found to be no= t appreciably diminished. The great paradox attending the flow of odorous particles is that they can be held under confinement in a glass vessel! Her= e is a substance of much higher tenuity than the glass that holds it, and yet it cannot escape. It is as a sieve with its meshes large enough to pass marbles, and yet holding fine sand which cannot pass through; in fact, a molecular vessel holding an atomic substance. This is a problem that would confound those who stop to recognize it. But infinitely tenuous as odour is= , it holds a very crude relation to the substance of sub-division that govern= s a magnetic flow (a flow of sympathy, if you please to call it so). This sub-division comes next to sound, but is above sound. The action of the flo= w of a magnet coincides somewhat to the receiving and distributing portion of the human brain, giving off at all times a depreciating ratio of the amount received. It is a grand illustration of the control of mind over matter, which gradually depreciates the physical till dissolution takes place. The magnet on the same ratio gradually loses its power and becomes inert. If th= e relations that exist between mind and matter could be equated and so held, we would live on in our physical state eternally, as there would be no physical depreciation. But this physical depreciation leads, at its terminus, to the source of a much higher development=E2=80=94viz., the libe= ration of the pure ether from the crude molecular; which, in my estimation, is to be much desired."=E2=80=94 Mr. Keely defines electricity "as a certain form of atomic vibration."=20 =E2=80=9CThere is a transcendental set of causes put in motion=E2=80=94so t= o speak=E2=80=94in the occurrence of these phenomena, which, not being in relation to our narrow range of cognition, can only be traced to their source and their nature, an= d understood by the Spiritual faculties of the Adept.=20 They are, as Asclepios puts it to the King, "incorporeal corporealities"=E2=80=94such as "appear in the mirror," and "abstract forms= " that we see, hear, and smell, in our dreams, and visions. What have the "modes of motion," light, and ether to do with these?=20 Yet we see, hear, and smell, and touch them, ergo they are as much realitie= s to us in our dreams, as any other thing on this plane of Maya=E2=80=9D.=20 SECRET DOCTRINE I 555 - 566 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D These are key statements made by HPB in the S D . They show that the Occultists knew quite well what Keeley was dealing with and what his specia= l nature and its limits were. Here is the certificate given by the Masters on the authorship of the SECRET DOCTRINE=20 --------------------- =20 AUTHORSHIP OF SECRET DOCTRINE A good deal has been said about the writing of Isis Unveiled, and later of the Secret Doctrine, both by H. P. Blavatsky. A writer in the spiritualisti= c journals took great pains to show how many books the first work seems to quote from, and the conclusion to be arrived at after reading his diatribes is that H.P.B. had an enormous library at her disposal, and of course in he= r house, for she never went out, or that she had agents at great expense copying books, or, lastly, that by some process or power not known to the world was able to read books at a distance, as, for instance, in the Vatica= n at Rome and the British Museum. The last is the fact. She lived in a small flat when writing the first book and had very few works on hand, all she ha= d being of the ordinary common sort. She herself very often told how she gained her information as to modern books. No secret was made of it, for those who were with her saw day after day that she could gaze with ease int= o the astral light and glean whatever she wanted. But in the early days she did not say precisely to the public that she was in fact helped in that wor= k by the Masters, who gave from time to time certain facts she could not get otherwise. The Secret Doctrine, however, makes no disguise of the real help= , and she asserts, as also many of us believe, that the Masters had a hand in that great production. The letters sent to Mr. Sinnett formed the ground fo= r Esoteric Buddhism, as was intended, but as time went on it was seen that some more of the veil had to be lifted and certain misconceptions cleared up; hence the Secret Doctrine was written, and mostly by the Masters themselves, except that she did the arranging of it. For some time it was too much the custom of those who had received at the hands of H.P.B. words and letters from her Masters to please themselves wit= h the imagination that she was no more in touch with the original fount, and that, forsooth, these people could decide for themselves what was from her brain and what from the Masters. But it is now time to give out a certificate given when the Secret Doctrine was being written, a certificate signed by the Masters who have given out all that is new in our theosophica= l books. It was sent to one who had then a few doubts, and at the same time copies were given from the same source to others for use in the future, which is now. The first certificate runs thus: I wonder if this note of mine is worthy of occupying a select spot with the documents reproduced, and which of the peculiarities of the "Blavatskian" style of writing it will be found to most resemble? The present is simply t= o satisfy the Doctor that "the more proof given the less believed." Let him take my advice and not make these two documents public. It is for his own satisfaction the undersigned is happy to assure him that the Secret Doctrine, when ready, will be the triple production of [here are the names of one of the Masters and of H.P.B.] and _______ most humble servant, [signed by the other.] On the back of this was the following, signed by the Master who is mentione= d in the above: If this can be of any use or help to _____, though I doubt it, I, the humbl= e undersigned Faquir, certify that the Secret Doctrine is dictated to [name o= f H.P.B.], partly by myself and partly by my brother ______. A year after this, certain doubts having arisen in the minds of individuals= , another letter from one of the signers of the foregoing was sent and reads as follows. As the prophecy in it has come true, it is now the time to publish it for the benefit of those who know something of how to take and understand such letters. For the outside it will all be so much nonsense. The certificate given last year saying the Secret Doctrine would be when finished the triple production of [H.P.B.'s name], ________, and myself was and is correct, although some have doubted not only the facts given in it but also the authenticity of the message in which it was contained. Copy this and also keep the copy of the aforesaid certificate. You will find the= m both of use on the day when you shall, as will happen without your asking, receive from the hands of the very person to whom the certificate was given= , the original for the purpose of allowing you to copy it; and then you can verify the correctness of this presently forwarded copy. And it may then be well to indicate to those wishing to know what portions in the Secret Doctrine have been copied by the pen of [H.P.B.'s name] into its pages, though without quotation marks, from my own manuscript and perhaps from ______, though the last is more difficult from the rarity of his known writing and greater ignorance of his style. All this and more will be found necessary as time goes on, but for which you are well qualified to wait." ONE OF THE STAFF Path, April, 1893 -------------------------------------------- Best wishes,=20 Dallas =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D From: Leon M=20=20 Subject: [bn-study] Re: Revisionism in Theosophical Literature Friends I wouldn't be so sure that the Keely Engine, or at least the concept of=20 extracting the "etheric energy" from the vacuum of space, was entirely false.=20=20 Although the evidence proved that he was in fact a charlatan and did fake his "motor" itself -- which fooled HPB as well as a lot of other backers. = =20 See http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/keely/keely.htm)=20=20 However, HPB did know the possibilities of such energy being extractable -- since she assumed Keely was using his own psychic energy (which she knew th= e power of) to make the machine work. Also, she did mention in the SD that i= t wouldn't work without him being present.=20=20 CUT =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D 27 For info Dallas =20 -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Smith [mailto:aupanishad@msn.com]=20 Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 1:54 PM To: gnosis284@yahoogroups.com; theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Perry Coles; Subject: Theos-World Watch Out! Here Come The Borg! The first sighting of atoms flying in formation has been reported by physicists at the Department of Commerce's National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) and the University of Colorado at Boulder (CU-Boulder= ) in the Aug. 13 issue of Physical Review Letters.* While the Air Force and geese prefer a classic "V," the strontium atoms-choreographed in this experiment with precision laser pulses and ultracold temperatures-were recorded flying in the shape of a cube. Andrew W. Smith "He has seen but half the universe who never has been shown the House of Pain." --- Ralph Waldo Emerson =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 28 Zacharia Sitchen is one thing, but here is another view about that alle= ged mysterious periodic transgressor of our Planetary system.=20 This is the work of a former NASA Scientist whose forte while employed by N= ASA was Orbital Mechanics and Microwave Technology.=20 His theory is based on the Dendera Temple Zodiac, the Temple of Senmut and = other relevant old records. This is a little=20 lengthy to read as is necessary to understand what he interprets but is wor= th the effort. He has different periodicity than Sitchen based on his calcu= lations from the Egyptian record. I have had communication with him and sug= gested he look=20 into Tiahuanaco and the "Puma Star." Here is the Website: http://mujweb.cz/Veda/senmut =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 29 ASTRONOMY PICTURE OF THE DAY=20 Discover the cosmos! http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/archivepix.html Each day a different image or photograph of our fascinating universe is fea= tured, along with a brief explanation written by a professional astronomer.= =20 =20 M17: A Hubble Close-Up=20 Credit: NASA, ESA, J. Hester (ASU)=20 Explanation: Sculpted by stellar winds and radiation, these fantastic, undulating= shapes lie within the stellar=20 nursery, the Omega Nebula, so= me 5,500 light-years away in the nebula-rich constellation Sagittarius. The lumpy features in the dense cold gas and dust are ill= uminated by stars off the upper left of the image and may themselves repres= ent sites of future star formation. Colors in the fog of surrounding hotter= material indicate=20 M17's chemical make up. The predominate= ly green glow corresponds to abundant hydrogen, with trace sulfur and oxyge= n atoms contributing red and blue hues. The picture spans about 3 light-yea= rs and was released in the thirteenth year of the Hubble Space Telescop= e's cosmic voyage of exp= loration.=20 Andrew W. Smith =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 30 CAN YOU GUESS HOW THIS HAPPENED? My head is whirling at the thought of it. Can you imagine -=20 two miles down inside a coal mine - an ancient building!!!=20 That's right... inside the coal.=20 * Oklahoma: In 1928, in coal mine No. 5, near=20 Heavener, at a depth of two miles, miners encountered a wall=20 composed of 12 inch cube concrete blocks. The blocks were=20 so smooth and polished on the outside that all six sides acted=20 as mirrors. A solid wall was exposed. About 100 to 150=20 yards further down the shaft, the same wall or one very=20 similar was uncovered. EVIDENCE THEN BURIED When they reported the discovery to the mining officers, the=20 men were pulled out of that mine and sent to another mine.=20=20 That part of the mine was then filled up.=20=20 Hey, what's going on here? Who's afraid these things will=20 get known? OLDER OR YOUNGER? There are just two ways you can understand this: (1) EITHER civilized man (the grand finale of so-called evolution) was on earth BEFORE the "coal age" (up to 300=20 million years ago)=20=20 (2) OR coal was NOT laid down 300 million years ago, but=20 very recently, after civilized man. Either way, the evolution sequence is in trouble. So what is the truth... REALLY? Is this something to=20 think about?=20 You will appreciate, Dallas, that to present you with=20 the truth convincingly and with sufficient evidence to do=20 it justice, is impossible in such a brief email. So I won't try. But if you really want to dig into this further, my new=20 ebook "Surprise Witness" exposes these and many more=20 astonishing facts - and gives answers with hard evidence.=20 You can get it from=20 http://www.archaeologyanswers.com/second.php=20=20=20 But first, what do you think of these?: * Western Australia: In 1975, water drillers 80 miles=20 from Perth struck concrete 30 feet below the surface.=20=20 Investigation proved the existence of a concrete wall. * France: At Aix-en-Provence, from 1786 to 1788,=20 coins, stumps of columns and other worked stones, were=20 discovered 50 feet down, below eleven beds of compact=20 limestone. * Kentucky: At Blue Lick Springs, underground,=20 below the remains of a prehistoric mastodon, was=20 discovered a pavement of cut-stone tiles. * Ohio: In the autumn of 1868, in a strip of coal mine=20 operated by Captain Lucy near Hammondsville, at 100 feet=20 below ground a large mass of coal fell into the shaft,=20 unmasking a large, smooth, slate wall covered with=20 inscriptions similar to hieroglyphics, in lines about three=20 inches apart. Crowds flocked to see this marvel. By the time=20 qualified scientists got there with proper equipment, the slate=20 had crumbled in the air and the writing was destroyed. * Pennsylvania: In November 1829, in a quarry twelve=20 miles northwest of Philadelphia, at a depth of 69-70 feet=20 below ground, a block of marble was found, which bore an=20 indentation containing the raised alphabet characters 'I' and=20 'U'.' The discovery was authenticated by several reliable=20 witnesses and two years later an illustration appeared in the=20 American Journal of Science, vol.19, p.361. * Omaha, Nebraska: About 130 feet underground,=20 coalminers found a carved slab of rock. The marks on it=20 divided the shape into diamonds. In the centre of each=20 diamond was an engraving of a human face. The earth had=20 not been disturbed - and the coal was dated at 300 million=20 years. (Omaha Daily News, 1897) -------------------- Yes, can you imagine it? My head is still whirling! As deep=20 as two miles (3.2 kilometres) underground! We're dealing=20 with a deep mystery here concerning our civilized=20 ancestors. DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Please email me your questions. I am here to help you=20 with any questions on ancient mysteries. Just email=20 me at questions@archaeologyanswers.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 31 . This looks like it could be an excellent resource for the BN science proj= ect. TASTE is an online journal devoted to transcendent experiences that scienti= sts have reported. It lets scientists express these experiences in a psycho= logically (and professionally) safe space.=20 http://www.issc-taste.org/main/introduction.shtml =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D 32 Aug 15 2004 RE: Discussions and proving.=20=20 Adding to B N Science section Dear N, and Friends: I agree -- so let the "thinkers" show others where they secured their "help." Now where do we start?=20=20 Should we not make that which is useful available to others? Several ways occur to me: 1. Republish the "original teachings" on Internet. 2. Answer inquiries and point to solutions that rest on Theosophical basics. Discuss these freely. 3. A possible third is to critically review current writings and add to our accumulation of "proofs"=20=20 1. Scientific reports, and discoveries 2. Psychological studies and discoveries 3. Relgious statements and trends. 4. Methods of study of feeling, emoton, thought, logic, free-will, choosing,=20 and, seeking for common denominators all may accept. 5. Discussing all aspects of information freely. Best wishes, Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 33 http://www.soultravel.nu/2004/040202-newage/index.asp Three Paradigm Shifts in Parapsychology Actually, New Age started a hundred years ago, with Madame Blawatzky and he= r Secret Doctrine, but the real breakthrough came in the 1970:ies with Ostr= ander's & Schr=C3=83der's, Psychic Discoveries Behind the Iron Curtain (197= 0). Also KGB's bureau for Foreign Country Information ( i.e the spy bureau)= and their research department for information theory made a great differen= ce. http://www.wie.org/misc/about-wie.asp Well, it=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=E2=84=A2s not just a spiritual magazine. It is a sp= iritual, cultural, philosophical, and otherwise category-busting magazine c= ommitted to bringing a new perspective to politics, business, science, the = arts, and the environment. It is also an international speakers forum, an o= nline media broadcast station, and a master=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=E2=84=A2s degree= program. And it just keeps growing. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D 33 CROP CIRCLES 33 A UFO Town Seeks Aid for Earthly Visitors Wed Aug 11, 2004 10:40 AM ET=20 http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=3DoddlyEnoughNews&storyID=3D5= 938944 WARSAW (Reuters) - A Polish town plans to ask the European Union for the eq= uivalent of $126 million to help it build facilities for hundreds of visito= rs lured by its mysterious crop circles, a local official said on Tuesday.= =20 Crop circles -- areas in farmers' fields where grain has been flattened, of= ten in complex interlocking patterns -- have been appearing in Wylatowo, we= stern Poland, for four years.=20 The circles have drawn interest from UFO enthusiasts who believe they are m= ade by alien spacecraft, while others dismiss them as hoaxes.=20 "We are drawing up a formal request -- we'd like to fix the sewer system an= d put up a campsite for visitors, both from Poland and from elsewhere in Eu= rope," Wylatowo town councilor Tadeusz Filipczak told Reuters.=20 "I've got an exhibit for tourists set up in my place where they can come an= d ask questions -- I mean, you can't just send people out in the fields," h= e said.=20 ---------------------------------------------------- 33 B http://www.enterprisemission.com/glyph.htm ...precisely one year after a strange fractal "crop glyph" appeared in a fi= eld just outside the Chilbolton Radio telescope grounds, in Hampshire, Engl= and, another, even stranger glyph appeared (above). According to Darcy Lad= d, Manager of the Chilbolton Radio Observatory, in an interview with Colin = Andrews, the image appeared =C3=A2=E2=82=AC=C5=93suddenly on the morning of= August 14th.=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=C2=9D According to Mr. Ladd, =C3=A2=E2=82=AC= =C5=93No unusual activity was seen that morning, in the field or [in terms = of] aircraft overhead, etc =C3=A2=E2=82=AC=C2=A6.=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=C2=9D Acc= ording to the Manager, Chilbolton does have security cameras, but they are = not equipped for night vision surveillance. The cameras captured =C3=A2=E2= =82=AC=C5=93nothing unusual.=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=C2=9D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D 34 http://noosphere.princeton.edu/fristwall2.html A GLOBAL NETWORK of random sources shows deviations linked with events that= affect millions of people. The results challenge common ideas about the wo= rld, but independent analyses confirm the unexpected behavior, and also ind= icate that it cannot be attributed to ordinary physical forces or electroma= gnetic fields.=20 The Global Consciousness Project (GCP) is an international collaboration cr= eated in 1998 to study the subtle reach of human consciousness in the physi= cal world. We maintain a network of random event generators (REGs) with nod= es in more than 50 locations, from Alaska to Fiji, on all continents, and i= n nearly every time zone. The world map on the right has a bright spot for = each of the host sites.=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 35 Subject: DNA CAN BE INFLUENCED AND REPROGRAMMED BY WORDS AND FREQUENCIES - = RUSSIAN DNA DISCOVERIES=20 http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/peterr/ascension/DNAinfluencedWordsFrequency.h= tml The human DNA is a biological Internet and superior in many aspects to the = artificial one. The latest Russian scientific research directly or indirect= ly explains phenomena such as clairvoyance, intuition, spontaneous and remo= te acts of healing, self healing, affirmation techniques, unusual light/aur= as around people (namely spiritual masters), mind's influence on weather pa= tterns and much more. In addition, there is evidence for a whole new type of medicine in which DN= A can be influenced and reprogrammed by words and frequencies WITHOUT cutti= ng out and replacing single genes.=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D 36 Odin wrote: >Jerome, >I've run into an interesting condundrum: HPB supports both "spontaneous=20 >generation" and "intelligent design". The modern proponents of the latter= =20 >use Pasteur's work disproving the former to support the latter! Sorting=20 >through this maze proves more challenging than expected.=20 Then, the Christian creationists are busy "proving" that man and dinosaurs= =20 >co-existed, thereby supporting their one-shot creation of everything by=20 >God (i.e., "proofs" of human footprints together with dinosoaur bones in=20 >Mexico). HPB's assertion of the co-existence of man and dino, the missing= =20 >link of the astral man/physical dinosaur is altogether that--missing! We=20 >may have to wait awhile for Science to catch-up and accept the astral=20 >prototypes. >OT > >Book Description >OF PANDAS AND PEOPLE gives evidence for intelligent design from=20 >origin-of-life studies, biochemistry, genetics, homology, and=20 >paleontology. In a unique manner,=20 Of Pandas and People gives the pros and=20 >cons of both the biological-evolution theory and the intelligent-design=20 >concept. Pandas promotes a widely recognized goal of science education by= =20 >fostering a questioning, skeptical and scrutinizing mindset. This=20 >supplemental biology textbook provides an extensive index, glossary,=20 >references, and suggested reading and resources to help familarize the=20 >reader with the material. Pandas is enhanched by the use of numerous=20 >diagrams, charts, illustrations and full-color pictures. > >http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0914513400/qid=3D1091201406/= sr=3D8-4/ref=3Dsr_8_xs_ap_i4_xgl14/002-3999847-5931217?v=3Dglance&s=3Dbooks= &n=3D507846 > >SD II, 149 > >The two and a half Races that preceded that event may have lived=20 >300,000,000 years ago for all that science can tell. For the geological=20 >and physical difficulties in the way of the theory could not exist for the= =20 >primeval, ethereal man of the Occult teachings. The whole issue of the=20 >quarrel between the profane and the esoteric sciences depends upon the=20 >belief in, and demonstration of, the existence of an astral body within=20 >the physical, the former independent of the latter. > >It will be very challenging to find either Biblical Creationists or=20 >Science as yet corroborating the following: > >Under the page heading =C3=A2=E2=82=AC=C5=93No Man =C3=A2=E2=82=AC=E2=80= =9C No God=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=C2=9D =C3=A2=E2=82=AC=E2=80=9C SD I, 106-107: > >The Doctrine teaches that, in order to become a divine, fully conscious=20 >god,=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=E2=80=9Daye, even the highest=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=E2=80=9Dt= he Spiritual primeval INTELLIGENCES must=20 >pass through the human stage. And when we say human, this does not apply= =20 >merely to our terrestrial humanity, but to the mortals that inhabit any=20 >world=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=C2=A6 > >=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=C5=93The Breath becomes a stone; the stone, a plant; the p= lant, an animal;=20 >the animal, a man; the man, a spirit; and the spirit, a god.=C3=A2=E2=82= =AC=C2=9D The=20 >Mind-born Sons, the Rishis, the Builders, etc., were all men=C3=A2=E2=82= =AC=E2=80=9Dof whatever=20 >forms and shapes=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=E2=80=9Din other worlds and the preceding = Manvantaras. This=20 >subject, being so very mystical, is therefore the most difficult to=20 >explain in all its details and bearings; since the whole mystery of=20 >evolutionary creation is contained in it. > >SD I, 218: >In Esoteric Philosophy, every physical particle corresponds to and depends= =20 >on its higher noumenon=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=E2=80=9Dthe Being to whose essence i= t belongs; and above=20 >as below, the Spiritual evolves from the Divine, the psycho-mental from=20 >the Spiritual=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=E2=80=9Dtainted from its lower plane by the a= stral=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=E2=80=9Dthe whole=20 >animate and (seemingly) inanimate Nature evolving on parallel lines, and=20 >drawing its attributes from above as well as from below. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 37 Online video presentation re=20 FOSSIL RECORD, MISSING LINKS, AND DISCUSSION OF DESCENT OF MAN/APE.=20 (Fundamental Christian sponsored but worthwhile info): http://www.bible.ca/tracks/fossil-man.htm =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 38 This is a good resource for current and frontier science. California Institute for Physics and Astrophysics=20 http://www.calphysics.org/index.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 39 http://www.zpower.net/zpe.htm http://www.zpenergy.com/ http://www.calphysics.org/zpe.html QUANTUM PHYSICS predicts the existence of an underlying sea of zero-point e= nergy at every point in the universe. This is different from the cosmic mic= rowave background and is also referred to as the electromagnetic quantum va= cuum since it is the lowest state of otherwise empty space. This energy is = so enormous that most physicists believe that even though zero-point energy= seems to be an inescapable consequence of elementary quantum theory, it ca= nnot be physically real, and so is subtracted away in calculations.=20 A minority of physicists accept it as real energy which we cannot directly = sense since it is the same everywhere, even inside our bodies and measuring= devices. From this perspective, the ordinary world of matter and energy is= like a foam atop the quantum vacuum sea. It does not matter to a ship how = deep the ocean is below it. If the zero-point energy is real, there is the = possibility that it can be tapped as a source of power or be harnessed to g= enerate a propulsive force for space travel.=20 THE SECRET DOCTRINE ZERO STATE SD I, 545 =C3=A2=E2=82=AC=C5=93THE ORIGINAL BASE=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=C2=9D "Matter is eternal," says the Esoteric Doctrine. But the matter the Occulti= sts conceive of in its laya, or zero state, is not the matter of modern sci= ence; not even in its most rarefied gaseous state. Mr. Crookes' "radiant ma= tter" would appear matter of the grossest kind in the realm of the beginnin= gs, as it becomes pure spirit before it has returned back even to its first= point of differentiation.=20 Therefore, when the adept or alchemist adds that, though matter is eternal,= for it is PRADHANA, yet atoms are born at every new manvantara, or reconst= ruction of the universe, it is no such contradiction as a materialist, who = believes in nothing beyond the atom, might think. There is a difference bet= ween manifested and unmanifested matter, between pradhana, the beginningles= s and endless cause, and prakriti, or the manifested effect. Says the sloka= ; --=20 "That which is the unevolved cause is emphatically called by the most emine= nt sages, pradhana, original base, which is subtile prakriti, viz., that wh= ich is eternal, and which at once is, and is not, a mere process."*=20 That which in modern phraseology is respectively referred to as Spirit and = Matter, is ONE in eternity as the perpetual cause, and it is neither Spirit= nor matter, but IT -- rendered in Sanskrit TAD ("that"), -- all that is, w= as, or will be, all that the imagination of man is capable of conceiving. E= ven the exoteric Pantheism of Hinduism renders it as no monotheistic philos= ophy ever did, for in superb phraseology its cosmogony begins with the well= -known words: --=20 "There was neither day nor night, neither heaven nor earth, neither darknes= s nor light. And there was not ought else apprehensible by the senses or by= the mental faculties. There was then one Brahma, essentially prakriti (Nat= ure) and Spirit. For the two aspects of Vishnu which are other than his sup= reme essential aspect are prakriti and Spirit, and Brahman.=20 When these two other ASPECTS of his no longer subsist, but are dissolved, t= hen that aspect whence form and the rest, i.e., creation, proceed anew, is = denominated time, O twice-born."=20 It is that which is dissolved, or the illusionary dual aspect of That, the = essence of which is eternally ONE, that we call eternal matter or Substance= (Vide in Part II., "Primordial Substance and Divine Thought"), formless, s= exless, inconceivable, even to our sixth sense or mind,** in which, therefo= re, we refuse to see that which Monotheists call a personal, anthropomorphi= c God.=20 How are these two propositions -- "that matter is eternal," and "the atom p= eriodical, and not eternal" -- viewed by modern exact Science? The material= istic physicist will criticize and laugh them to scorn.=20 =09=09 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 40 July 23 2004 =20 Many thanks Shawn. =20 Very interesting, especially the enlargements. =20 Now if you or someone will interpret them to us in terms of plate tectonics and possible history of rise and fall of coast lines it would be helpful. = =20 =20 Are there any charts that might show the effects of Ice-age glaciations? = =20 =20 How would the average cost line around the present continents have swerved to change their outlines look if say, 15,000, 50,000, or 250,000 years ago the sea level were 300 to 600 feet lower on the average?=20 =20 If Poseidonis disappeared in a night (?) then where might it have been and where are the islands and shores of that time?=20=20 =20 Is there any way we can trace them.=20=20 =20 I hear of evidence along various shores of elevated Coast lines --- along the coast of So. America, for instance,=20 =20 Then there was a recent study on the evidence of flora and fauna around the Atlantic ocean basin comparing So. America and West European coastal region= s - showing that at one time in the geological past there had ben some connections and similarities of species as well as geological comparables tended to show that the may have been a valid connection. =20 I see almost too much anxiety to dispel any interest in such contiguity and co-existence, and, I ask myself why is it that in certain scientific circle= s there is so much interest in placing bars and obstacles in the way of considering the statements made in THEOSOPHY concerning the past. =20 Suppose that some of us set together and established a table listing the ages and eras of the past that Theosophy speaks on this - then com[pare it with those dates and ideas that Science seems to adopt. =20 For instance:=20=20 =20 I recall that it was a geologist who supported the examination of water wea= r on the Sphynx and came to the conclusion that torrential rains were common over 13,000 years ago (and of course earlier, as that was only a "last date= " - since the date on when the Sphynx actually carved, was perhaps many thousands of years earlier -- how many years of exposure (as in the case, for instance, of the Ellora caves in Central India have those structures been exposed to the monsoon rains and eroded ? - still this period and era is unknown in regard to Egypt - and Where did those rains come from? Was the Sahara then a sea? And its climate contributed to caused the erosion. [Anthony West? ]=20=20 =20 The arrangement of the Pyramids and several temples in the delta of the Nil= e are said to coincide with the positions of the main stars in Orion and Cani= s Major ought also to be checked and verified and kept alive. =20 We have also had since Mars was closely examined the matter of the 5 sided pyramid and the seemingly human face outline found on Mars. Are these "coincidences" (some of Nature quirks and fancies?) or, were they left as evidence for explorers, such as we have become, to seek to understand and secure some reason for. =20 Von Danegan (spelling ?) [ 1980s and 90s] wrote a number of sensational books about anomalies, strange artifacts, evidence of art in layers of strata that antedate those layers in which only evidence of savage and primitive tools have been found.=20=20 =20 Why this evidence? Why now? What can Theosophy offer as found around the world - with photographs and other testimony - who among us is systematically following up on such things? Or even cataloging them?=20 =20 Have they any relevancy to Theosophy and its chronology? =20 What about the study of paleo-climatology? What changes in land mass may have caused those? This could be tied in with paleo-geology ? =20 I recall that Velikovsky in his books (1940s) made a point of indicating there was no reasonable explanation for vast deposits of fossil, found in impossible profusion and jumbled in certain areas - his idea was there had been a sudden shifting of the planetary axis - and in certain areas where surface exposure led to there being no protection, trees, animals, rocks, etc, slid over the surface of the earth which suddenly changed its spin direction -- and were finally jammed in jumbled heaps against the face of certain mountains and in canyons that were able to resist such a change and flow - and provide a shelter for this mass of detritus.=20 =20 Many mysteries -- and one could write some interesting and thought provoking books about them.=20=20 =20 [ For instance, in very recent years we have FORBIDDEN ARCHAEOLOGY by Cremo and Johnson -- and, as a follow up, an equally large volume recording the way in which the scientific community received its publication.] =20 I append hereto some outlines of a chronology constructed from hints given in Theosophical literature. [It is only a sketch and needs to be added to.]Perhaps someone will help. =20 There are in our Theosophy magazines already a fair grouping of records pertaining to anomalies: -- =20 In Theosophy Magazine, (Los Angeles) now in its 85th volume -- see=20 ON THE LOOKOUT -- month after month. =20 In The THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT Magazine (Bombay) now in its 75th volume see I= N THE LIGHT OF THEOSOPHY -- items month after month. =20 Culled, edited, an put into book-form, these would make very provocative reading.=20 =20 =20 ------------------------------- =20 =20 =20 TIME CHARTS -- GEOLOGICAL CHRONOLOGY =20 Below is a table of Geological Ages as they were estimated in HPB's time,=20 and as they are estimated now. [SD II 710] These dates are used by Scientific=20 Geology and are approximate estimates only. ] =20 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= - ----------------- Years Years Name of = =20 GEOLOGICAL AGE HPB's S D DATES MODERN DATES =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 PRIMORDIAL 321,000,000 10,000,000,000 +=20 [SD II 711-2] =20 PALEOZOIC Laurentian . . . 1 billion (+/-) Cambrian . . . 590,000,000 Ordovician . . . 505,000,000 Silurian . . . = . 438,000,000 =20 PRIMARY . 150,000,000=20 [SD II 712] Devonian . . . 408,000,000=20 Carboniferous . . . 360,000,000 Permian . . . 280,000,000 =20 SECONDARY . 45, 000,000 [SD II 713-4] =20 MESOZOIC Triassic . . . 248,000,000 Jurassic . . . 213,000,000 Cretaceous . . . 144,000,000 =20 TERTIARY 9,000,000 [SD II 714] =20 CENOZOIC Paleocene . . . 65,000,000 Eocene . . . 55,000,000 Oligocene . . . 38,000,000 Miocene . . . 25,000,000 Pliocene . . . 5,000,000 =20 QUATERNARY 1,600,000 [SD II 715] Paleolithic . . . 4,000,000=20=20 Pleistocene . . . 2,000,000 Neolithic . . . Holocene . . . 100,000 Historical . . . 10,000 =20=20=20 PRESENT DAY =20 =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 2=20=20 =20 AN INTRODUCTION TO A THEOSOPHICAL C H R O N O L O G Y=20=20 __________ Note=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 This is an attempt to place events and personages within various accepted and Theosophical time-frames. It is hoped that it will help in observing evidence of the Wise Men and Sage Adepts of the past at work. It will help the compilers if you would contribute any correc-tions or additions to this growing project, as a result of your own study and use of this list. _____________ =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Abbreviations used: =20 IS =3D Isis Unveiled Glos = =3D Theosophical Glossary=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 SD =3D The Secret Doctrine Thy =3D Theo= sophy Magazine (LA) Key =3D Key to Theosophy Theos't =3D Theosophist ( Adyar ) Lucif=3D Lucifer Magazine Path =3D Th= e Path ( New York ) ML =3D Mahatma Letters T M =3D Theos.Movemt. (Bombay) Ocean=3D Ocean of Theosophy HPB Art =3D Collect= ed HPB Articles CWB =3D Collected Works HPB WQJ Art =3D Collecte= d WQJ Articles C & J=3D Caves & Jungles of Hindoostan Aryan Path =3D Magazine published in Bombay =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D A THEOSOPHICAL VIEW OF CHRONOLOGY Introduction The sub-title given to this survey indicates the attention that H.P.Blavatsky paid to the historical, factual aspect, of the records o= f the Adepts. ( SD I 272 ) =20 Students of Theosophy take into account certain foundationa= l concepts, such as :--=20=20 1. Reincarnation: that we are essentially in our spiritual, natures, Immortals, and have lived many lives on this Earth;=20=20 2. that Karma, the law of justice and of fairness to all beings (from the atom to Galaxy) is The Law for every aspec= t of the Universe; and that it consists of an harmonic balance at all points= ; so that all circumstances can be traced to choices made earlier; 3. the ideal of Human Brotherhood is not a myth but a solid fact as science and psychology demonstrate daily that we share in each other, as in all aspects of Nature; and finally,=20=20 4. There is an actual, a Universal All--an Encompassing Unity (or Causation), which forms the living and sensitive base for all evolution and all individual consciousness. =20 =20 C H R O N O L O G Y =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20 Year Groups, Tribes Notes and References From To or Individual = =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 Universal and World Periods [Tables] SD II 69-70 OCEAN 125 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------- 311,040,000,000,000 years =3D Maha Kalpa, or Life of Brahma (100 of Brahma's years) [311 trillion, 40 billion= ] SD II 70 =20 3,110,400,000,000 years =3D 1 Year of Brahma SD II 70 [3 trillion, 110 billion] 8,640,000,000 years =3D 1 Day + 1 Night of Brahma=20=20=20=20=20 4,320,000,000 years =3D 1 Kalpa =3D l Day of Brahma or 1,000 Maha-Yugas SD II 6= 9 or 14 Manus SD II = 59-60 [ see The Theosophist, Nov.= , 1885, p. 115-6;=20 article by P. Sreenivas R= ow ] 1 Day of Brahma =3D 4,294,080,000 years =3D 994 Maha-Yugas or 14 Manus add 25,920,000 years =3D 1 Sandhi (twilight) SD II 308fn _____________________ 4,320,000,000 years =3D 1 Kalpa or 1 Day of = Brahma=20=20 (4 billion, 320 million) SD II 69-70 = =20 =20 1 Manvantara =3D 306,720,000 years =3D 71 Maha Yugas of 4,320,000 years=20 add 1,728,000 years =3D 1 Sandhi SD II 69 ____________________ 308,448,000 years =3D 1 Manvantara SD II 69 =20 4 Yugas [ The 4 "Ages" ] . . . SD II 69 ML p. 121, IS I 3= 2 =20 1,728,000 years =3D Krita (or Satya, or Golden Age--Yuga ) 1,296,000 years =3D Treta (or Silver Age--Yuga ) = =20 864,000 years =3D Dwapara ( or Bronze Age--Yuga ) 432,000 years =3D Kali ( or Black, Iron Age--Yuga ) __________________=20=20=20=20=20 4,320,000 years =3D 1 Maha Yuga or 1/1000th of A Day of Brahma = =20 SD II 69 HPB III 422; Lu= cif XIII, 183-4 =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Chaldean Cycles . . . .IS I 30 fn [ Berosus, Priest of the temple of Belus, Babylon ] 3,600 years =3D 1 Sar (or Saros ) IS I 21, 30, 34, 533 II 467, Path X 301, =20 600 years =3D 1 Neros 60 years =3D 1 Sossus Berosus, Temple of Belus, Babylon IS I 30 fn=20 SD II 38 331 432 566; SD I 114 314 389 435 649 655fn Glos. 108 291 (Sar) 225 258 =20 Solar or Heliacal Year 25,868 years Ocean 121=20 ( 1 Sub-race ) =20=20 OUR EARTH =20 1,955,884,687 years (in 1887) from the beginning of "cosmic evolution" SD II 68 - 300,000,000 Years as a Sandhi (twilight) ______________ 1,664,884,687 years (in 1887) from the first appearance of=20 "Humanity" (on this planetary chain) as a=20 physical form SD II 68 =20 18,618,728 years since the beginning of the Vaivaswata Manvantara - or the human period up to The year 1887 SD I 150fn II 69 =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D B. C. ________________ =20 18,618,727 Lighting up of Manas [ mind ] (as in 1887)=20=20=20 SD I 150fn; SD II 69 254-5 =20 4,000,000 c. Engulfing of Lemuria (e.g.:--Easter Island) [4th Round, 4th Globe, 3rd "Race"] SD I 4= 39 Easter Island - last evidence of Lemuria=20 SD I 322 439 II 224 317 =20 Atlantis [ Titans / Kabiri / Cyclops ] [4th Round, 4th Globe, 4th "Race"] = =20 1,050,000 Beginning of the 5th "Race" SD II 141 144 435 =20 Vedas SD I 269-71 II 483-4 450 606 616=20=20=20=20 T M 5-67 Glos 361 IS I 444 THY 2-468 = =20 Theos't I-247 COL I TOP. WQJ ART II 82-3 Theos't 9-428 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20 1,000,000 Aryan Race began SD II 395 Theosophy V. 45, p. 219 Brahmin invasion of Northern India=20 Is II 156fn 169 158 Is II 323 192 SD I 209 II 565 Glos 222 Persians, Turanians, Goths, Slavs Is. I 569-576=20=20 Is. II 426-433 =20=20 1,000,000 - 500,000 B C =20 =20 998,100 Cataclysms: Atlantis begins sinking SD II 141 Is I 557 593 SD II 10 144 Glos 42= -3 869,000 Dwapara Yuga Commencement (since 1888) SD II 147=20=20=20=20 ( Kali-Yuga began 3,102 BC ) 850,000 Since submergence of last large peninsula of the Great Atlantis SD II 10 =20 850,000 Glacial Period estimated by Stockwell & Croll=20 SD II 141 144 800,000 Angkor Wat built (2nd most Occult Edifice)=20=20=20 Glos 223 Is I 239 561-8 271-2 =20 500,000 - 250,000 B C =20 470,000 Babylon's astronomical observations are said to go back=20 to this period Nebo or Birs Nimrud, CWB 13-274 Isi= s I 533 450,000 Epoch of Ramayana (Brahmin estimate) C & J p. 73 Theos't Vol.10 -35 SD II 496 IS II 278 Glos 275 =20 400,000 Egypt was settled by the Atlanteans and the Eastern Aetheopeans (Malabar coast of India) SD II 750 =20=20 250,000 - 100,000 B C =20=20 250,000 + Last Glaciation of Europe Isis I 3 Pyramids were 3 times submerged S D I 313 424 617=20=20 SD II 462-6 575 435 749-50 351-3 462 351-= 2 93 276fn 429 GL 223 300=20=20 IS I 154 239 296-7 517-21 THY Vol. 67-p.54 Sphinx (Harmachus) SD II 124 618 Glos 135-6 Is I 573 200,000 Chaldean Astronomical Observations extended back at the time of Alexander's invasion _ Berosus SD I xxvi =20 200,000 Stockwell & Croll estimate of last Glaciation SD II 1441, 144 =20 100,000 - 30,000 B C =20=20 78,000 + Denderah Zodiac [ Egyptians brought from Lanka -- Menes ]=20 SD II 374fn 431-6 456 57= 7 580; IS I 440-1=20=20=20 49,186 Egyptian Records go back to ( Diogenes Laertius )=20 by 8,863 yrs. in 323 BC IS I 33 =20 34,300 Sumerian Tablet gives 32,234 yrs between Deluge and last king of Isin c.200 BC Thy 16, p.195 =20 30,000 - 10,000 B C =20=20 29,217 Alpha Polaris (Dhruva) (as Pole Star) (in 1888) 31,105 yrs ago Glos. 17 15,194 Zodiac Originated 1st degree of Aries ( Ram ) 15,086 Vernal Equinox and 1st degree of Libra coincided SD I 658=20=20 ( 16,984 yrs ago in 1888 ) 12,300 Vyasa - Uttara Mimansa and Vedanta taught Isis II 621 "Bhadarayana" SD I 50 269 451 Glos 36= 1 11,100 Vega (Alpha Lyrae was Pole Star Thy 17-18 =20 =20 10,000 - 6,000 B C=20 =20=20 9,566 Deluge of Deucalion. Last Island of Atlantis ML p. 155 submerged. Last war between the 5 YRS OF THY 99fn=20 =20 "Sons of God" of the "White Island" and SD II 406 444fn the last Atlantean sorcerers ISIS I 589-594 =20 9,500 Atlantis - Last Island sank Timaeus"- Plato as narrated by Priests of Sais to Solon TM 46-469 =20 8,000 Hindu Initiates had same Secret Philosophy then=20=20=20=20=20=20 as now (estimate) SD II 406 IS II 535 8,000 Tchandalas begin to emigrate from India to Chaldea=20=20 SD II 200 Glos 323 165 IS I 135 551-2 578 Isis II 438-9 SD I 313fn=20=20 =20 7,975 End of the last Sidereal Year Ocean 129 SD I 649-50 (9,868 yrs. before 1893) SD II 314 331 432 470=20=20 =20 6,500 c Zarathustra (6,000 yrs. before Plato c 400 BC) Gl 384-5 IS I 19 II 141 SD I 464 II 323 Theos't = I-135=20=20 Thy 14-97 [Zoroaster was a Title - 24 Zoroasters. The last was a contemporary of Gautama Buddha. c. 600 BC ] =20=20 6,000 - 4,000 B C =20=20 6,000 / 5,000 Trojan War was nearer 6,000 than 5,000 BC S D II 437fn Thy 27-103 IS I 520 598 Glos 96 (Dardanus= ) SD II 101 2= 36 440 5,100 Neith (1st Dynasty) Lucif 2-465 SD I 399 Glos 77 227 234 =20 4,100 c Manu-Vina (Menes) to Masra (Cairo) IS I 627 516 SD II 335 374 431-2 436 746; Thy 15, 317 =20=20 4,000 - 3,000 B C =20 3,750 Sargon I reigned (Prof. A.H.Sayce) SD II 691 3,700 Local Deluge in Middle East S D II 691 =20 3,200 c Date assigned to last Veda Vyasa by=20 the Brahmins. [Vyasa is a title.] Glos 362 3,102 Kali Yuga began Feb. 16, AM: 2 Hrs, 27 Min, 30 Sec. [ the only precise time given ] SD I 662 SD II = 147 fn 3,102 Krishna's death Kali Yuga (18 Feb. 3,102 BC) Glos 170 387 [ midnight 17/18 ] Thy. I-p. 374; IV= -p. 37 3,102 Hindu Zodiac Begins at sunrise Feb 18th SD I 662 ( origin of present Hindu era: "Vikram Sam= vat"=20 and Zodiac, Tiravalour, So. India ) =20 3,100 c Vikramaditya rules at Ujjain ("Vikram Samvat") SD I 662 [ begins at Sunrise, February 18th 3,102 B = C 3,100 c Fu-H'si ( Krishna of China ) Thy 14- 308 Po-H'si ( 1st Ruler of China) Thy 14- 1 3,100 c Orpheus identified with Arjuna Thy 27, 148 Glos 242 (On travel to Patala, stops in Greece) = =20 HPB ART III 138 IS I 532 I= I 129 550=20=20 SD I 207 267fn 529 784 Luc= if 16-273=20=20 Theos't 5-20 Col 2 Bot,=20 =20 3,000 - 2,000 B C =20 3,000 c Gilgamesh epic, "Flood" of the Jewish Bible Thy 16, 307 =20 2,875 c Akkadians (Semites) over-run Sumer Sargon IS I 576-78 =20 2,800 c Yi-King (Chinese Kabala in dialect of Akkadians) = =20 Thy 25-444 =20 2,700 Hwang-Ti 3rd ruler after Po-H'si Thy 15-19 Thy 14-310 =20 Babylon & Assyria Glos 47 37 IS I 567 ML 152 THY 16-194 30= 7 =20 2,253 Chaldean Astronomical Observations for the past 1903 years = =20 Calliosthenes to Aristotle (c 350 BC) IS I 21 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Kasidim Glos 75 81 39 196 IS I xxviii 534= 459 567 HPB Art III 134 ML 152 CWB 5-13 326-8 = =20 SECRET DOCTRINE II 620=09=09=09 2,200 c Shu-King and Shi-King (China) Thy 14-310 IS I 11 Hammurabi (Code) Babylon Thy 16-196 =20 2,000 c Sumeria old texts with interlinear Semitic Thy 16-194 translations Thy = 21-414 =20 2,000 - 1,000 B C =20=20 1,925 c Hittites capture Babylon IS I 567-8 =20 1,850 c Chung-Ki (China ) Thy 14-34 =20 1,700 c Knossos (Crete) at its height IS I 264 545 [ c 3,000 BC - 1,400 BC ] =20 1,628 Thera (Santorini) Volcano Erupts (Tree Ring Dating) [ L A Times, Aug 29 1996 ] [ End of Minoan Civilization, and tidal waves overwhelm coasts of Eastern Mediterranean.] =20 1,600 c Hyksos ( Semites ) overran Egypt IS I 569-70 =20 1,500 c Arameans over-ran Mesopotamia IS I 579 =20 Phoenicians ( Semites ) IS I 569 567 572 545=20 =20 1,573 Moses born SD II 539 691 MOD PAN 45 HPB III 244 IS I 3 555 SD I 320fn 385 II 428 456 465 691 IS II 129 I 25=20 =20 1,447 Aries in its 15th degree SD II 436 fn SD I 658 =20 1,400 c Achaeans to Crete destruction of Knossos dynasty (Thera-Santorini volcano explodes ? ) =20 1,350 c Tutankhamen XVIII Dynasty (son-in-law of Ikhnaton)=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 Aton replaced Amon-Ra -- Thebes-capital of Egypt =20 1,225 c Rameses II ( restored Karnak & many monuments ) =20 Greeks: Aeolians Ionians Dorians Achaeans =20 Scythians from central Asia begin invading Russia Khazaks (in 8th Cent. identified with Jews = ) =20 1,250 Sanchoniathon compiled religious writings SD II 440 fn IS I 234 341-2 577-8 II 260 275 SD II 12= 9 440 Glos 289 1,000-900 B C =20 1,000 c Aztecs to Central America S D II 445 Thy 16, 70-1 =20 974 - 937 Solomon IS I 135 II 391 ML 345 SD II 591 M Pan 45-6 970-936 Hiram I at Tyre (Phoenician Jews ) I S I 19 135 566-8 =20 945 Conjunction of all the Planets except Saturn SD II 63 (Note: also a great conj. in 1957, 1965-7 = & Sun Eclipse ) =20 900 c Inca Kings records begin Thy 16-25 Glos 154 HPB Art III 428 IS I 595-8 =20 814 Founding of Carthage by Phoenicians in flight from Joshua=20 son of Nun IS I 520 560 567 II = 546=20=20 =20=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D =20 =20 Dallas =20 -----Original Message----- From: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com] On Beh= alf Of Jacques Mahnich Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 10:17 AM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Theos-World Hello - New comer Hello everybody, =20 My first name is Jacques, I am almost 55 now, and a T.S member since 1980. =20 I had the opportunity to join this discussion list back in the mid 90' dur= ing one of my stay in US. I am now back to France and ready to share again = some ideas on Theosophical subjects. =20 We (together with my spouse Anne-Marie who joined T.S. at the same time th= an me) have had 4 children (and 2 grand-children by now). I am working since 30 years in aerospace industry as an electronic enginee= r. =20 My main topic of interest is the relationships between modern science and = theosophical teachings (a subject HPB spent some time with...). =20 Talk to you soon. =20 Jacques =20 =09=09=09 --------------------------------- Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on ne= w and used cars. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20 From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Jan 31 03:45:03 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29859 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2006 11:45:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2006 11:45:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.67) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2006 11:45:02 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.217] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1F3tux-0001bI-6N; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 06:43:27 -0500 To: Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 03:43:12 -0800 Message-ID: <000301c6265b$895d2460$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High In-Reply-To: <20060130020054.28919.qmail@web52115.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79b25b29789632b3cde6ba45e08a991b18350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.67 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: Theos-World Hello - New comer X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=TEnfbDlCPKW03f9aJimXhHsoEcFGN4D6ntBfiDMaGKhLXA X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Dallas =20 -----Original Message----- From: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cass Silva Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 6:01 PM To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Theos-World Hello - New comer Welcome Jacques Wonderful that we have a scientist that can verify scientific knowledge HPB spoke of 100 years ago.=20=20 Cass Jacques Mahnich wrote: Hello everybody, =20 My first name is Jacques, I am almost 55 now, and a T.S member since 1980. =20 I had the opportunity to join this discussion list back in the mid 90' during one of my stay in US. I am now back to France and ready to share again some ideas on Theosophical subjects. =20 We (together with my spouse Anne-Marie who joined T.S. at the same time than me) have had 4 children (and 2 grand-children by now). I am working since 30 years in aerospace industry as an electronic engineer. =20 My main topic of interest is the relationships between modern science and theosophical teachings (a subject HPB spent some time with...). =20 Talk to you soon. =20 Jacques =20 =20=20=20 --------------------------------- Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on ne= w and used cars. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20 =09=09 --------------------------------- =20 What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos=20 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] =20 Yahoo! Groups Links =20 From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Jan 31 04:15:21 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36202 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2006 12:15:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2006 12:15:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.67) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2006 12:15:18 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.217] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1F3uPK-0003ke-Ln; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 07:14:51 -0500 To: Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 04:14:34 -0800 Message-ID: <000401c6265f$ebd9b5a0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7969b86841b28cf79367acf6087f1c7cb6350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.67 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: Mystery of Death X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=8cROrBy51HeOPaSYBX4ruQkDa_mGTzqc38wNYV4iwlJ6Hw X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/31/2006 4:04 AM Welcome: These may help --abnormal death Kama-Loka -- 7-fold "...the seven lokas of the "Kama-Loka"...the seventh, the "Territory of Doubt."...Every such "world" within the Sphere of Effects has a Tathagata, or "Dhyan Chohan"--to protect and watch over, not to interfere with it." M L p. 108=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 (see Theosophical Articles & Notes, p 244)=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=09=09 Time in Kama-Loka -- Elementaries -- Danger of Mediumship "...The rule is, that a person who dies a natural death, will remain from "= a few hours to several short years," within the earth's attraction, i.e., in the Kama-Loka. But exceptions are, in the case of suicides and those who die a violent death in general. Hence, one of such Egos, for instance, who was destined to live--say 80 or 90 years, but who either killed himself or was killed by some accident, let us suppose at the age of 20--would have to pass in the Kama-Loka not "a few years," but in his case 60 or 70 years, as an Elementary, or rather an "earth-walker;" since he is not, unfortunately for him, even a "shell." Happy, thrice happy, (113) are those disembodied entities, who sleep their long slumber and live in dream in the bosom of Space ! And woe to those whose Trishna [desire to live] will attract them t= o mediums, and woe to the latter, who tempt them with such an easy Upadana [vehicle]... [more details on this]...And now, you may understand why we oppose so strongly Spiritualism and mediumship... (114)... Could the Spiritualists be only made to understand the difference between individuality and personality, between individual and personal immortality and some other truths, they would be more easily persuaded that Occultists may be fully convinced of the monad's immortality, and yet deny that of the soul--the vehicle of the personal Ego; that they can firmly believe in, an= d themselves practice spiritual communications and intercourse with the disembodied Egos of the Rupa-Loka, and yet laugh at the insane idea of "shaking hands" with a "Spirit" !; that finally, that as the matter stands= , it is the Occultists and the Theosophists who are the true Spiritualists, while the modern sect of that name is composed simply of materialistic phenomenalists." M L p. 112-4 (see Theosophical Articles & Notes, p. 237-8) Kama-Loka Consciousness -- Proportionate to Merit "The good and pure sleep a quiet blissful sleep, full of happy visions of earth-life and have no consciousness of being already for ever beyond that life. Those who were neither good nor bad, will sleep a dreamless, still a quiet sleep; while the wicked will in proportion to their grossness suffer the pangs of a nightmare lasting years: their thoughts become living things, their wicked passions--real substance, and they receive back on their heads all the misery they have heaped upon others. Reality and fact if described would yield a far more terrible Inferno than even Dante had imagined."=20 M L p.123 Conscious State of Victims of Accident -- Dreamless Sleep [ Explanation of state of consciousness of violent or accidental death victims .]=20 "...In cases of good and innocent Egos...the latter gravitates irresistibl= y towards the 6th [buddhi] and 7th [atma ], and thus--either slumbers surrounded by happy dreams, or, sleeps a dreamless profound sleep until the hour strikes...The victim whether good or bad is irresponsible for his death, even if his death were due to some action in a previous life or an antecedent birth; was an act...of the Law of Retribution, still, it was no= t the direct result of an act deliberately committed by the personal ego of that life during which he happened to be killed. Had he been allowed to live longer he may have atoned for his antecedent sins still more effectually: and even now, the Ego having been made to pay off the debt of his maker (the previous Ego) is free from the blows of retributive justice. The Dhyan Chohans who have no hand in the guidance of the living human Ego, protect the helpless victim when it is violently thrust out of its element into a new one, before it is matured and made fit and ready for it. We tel= l you what we know, for we are made to learn it through personal experience..= . Yes; the victims whether good or bad, sleep, to awake but at the hour of the last Judgment, which is that hour of the supreme struggle between the 6th and the 7th, and the 5th and 4th at the threshold of the gestation state. And even after that, when the 6th and 7th carrying off a portion of the 5th have gone into their Akasic Samadhi [devachan ], even then it may happen that the spiritual spoil from the 5th will prove too weak to be reborn (132) in Deva-Chan; in which case it will there and then reclothe itself in a new body, the subjective "Being" created from the Karma of the victim (or no victim, as the case may be) and enter upon a new earth-existence whether upon this or any other planet [read "Globe"]." M L p. 131-2 "What you were taught is the Rule. [Bear always in mind that there are exceptions...] Good and pure "accidents" sleep in the Akasa, ignorant of their change; very wicked and impure--suffer all the tortures of a horribl= e nightmare. The majority--neither very good nor very bad, the victims of accident or violence (including murder)--some sleep, others become Nature pisachas, and while a small minority may fall victims to mediums and derive a new set of skandhas from the medium who attracts them. Small as their number may be, their fate is to be the most deplored." M L p. 132 Motive -- Love, Hatred -- Immediate Rebirth "Motive is everything and man is punished in a case of direct responsibility, never otherwise." M L p,132 "Love and Hatred are the only immortal feelings..." M L p. 127 "Unless a man loves well or hates as well, he will be neither in Deva-Chan nor in Avitchi. "Nature spews the lukewarm out of her mouth" means only that she annihilates their personal Egos (not the shells, nor yet the 6th principle [buddhi ] ) in the Kama Loka and the Deva-Chan. This does not prevent then from being immediately reborn--and, if their lives were not very, very bad--there is no reason why the eternal Monad should not find th= e page of that life intact in the Book of Life." M L p. 134 Nature of Consciousness--Monad--Man's Evolutionary Rounds "...Man (physically) is a compound of all the kingdoms, and spiritually--hi= s individuality is no worse for being shut up within the casing of an ant tha= n it is for being inside a king. It is not the outward or physical shape tha= t dishonors and pollutes the five principles--but the mental perversity. The= n it is but at his fourth round when arrived at the full possession of his Kama-energy and is completely matured, that man becomes fully responsible, as at the sixth he may become a Buddha and at the seventh before the Pralaya--a "Dhyan Chohan."...He starts downward as a simply spiritual entity--an unconscious seventh principle (a Parabrahm in contradistinction to Para-parabrahm)--with the germs of the other six principles lying latent and dormant in him...(76) [ follows a description of stages of differentiation, round by round, a kind of 'gestation' process ]...Volition and consciousness are at the same time self-determining and determined by causes, and the volitions of man, his intelligence and consciousness will awake but when his (77) fourth principle Kama is matured and completed by its (seriatim) contact with the Kamas or energizing forces of all the forms man has passed through in his previous three rounds. The present mankind i= s at its fourth round (...as a genus...)...so the individual entities in them are unconsciously to themselves performing their local earthly sevenfold cycles--hence the vast difference in the degrees of their intelligence, energy and so on. Now every individuality will be followed on its ascendin= g arc by the Law of retribution--Karma and death accordingly. The perfect ma= n or the entity which reaches full perfection, (each of his seven principles being matured) will not be reborn here. His local terrestrial cycle is completed...(The incomplete entities have to be reborn or reincarnated)...O= n their fifth round after a partial Nirvana when the zenith of the grand cycl= e is reached, they will be held responsible henceforth in their descents from sphere to sphere, as they will have to appear on this earth as a still more perfect and intellectual race. This downward course has not begun but will soon...The above is the rule. The Buddhas and Avatars form the exception a= s verily we have yet some Avatars left to us on earth."=20 M L p. 75-77 =09 Kama-Loka - Suicides - Accidental Deaths The Adept states: "We tell you what we know, for we are made to learn it through personal experience." ML p. 131 1. Suicides:-- Though not separated completely from Buddhi and Atma yet there is a vast gulf until the day when they would have normally died. These two: Atma-Buddhi are passive for the intervening time, (to the hour o= f the last judgment--when the last and final struggle between Atma-Buddhi on one hand and Kama-Manas on the other occurs). (Theos. Articles & Notes, p.239-40) Suicide is death brought on voluntarily and with full and deliberate knowledge of its immediate consequences. TA&N, 240) If, in a fit on insanity a man commits suicide, he falls asleep like any other victim of accident. TA&N (240) =09=09=09=09=09=09=09 2. Accidental Deaths:-- =09=09 The victim, good or bad, is irresponsible for his death. Even if the death by accident were due to past Karma, it is not the direct result of a personal act of the Ego in this life.=20 The Dhyan-Chohans protect the hapless accident victim when it is violently thrust out of its life before it has matured and been made ready for the ne= w place in a normal way.=20 TA&N, 239 In the case of accidental death, the 2 groups of principles (Atma-Buddhi-Manas) and (Astral-Prana-Kama-Lower Manas) attract each other. TA&N, 239-240 1. In the case of good and innocent egos the lower 4 gravitate irresistibly towards Atma-Buddhi, and thus sleep, 1. a dreamless slumber, or=20 2. are surrounded by happy dreams until the hour when death would have normally taken place occurs and the separation between the "higher" an= d the "lower" principles occurs just before Devachan ("gestation state"). If at that time Atma-Buddhi carrying the essence of Higher Manasic experience proves to have too little for the operation=20 of the process of "Akasic Samadhi" in Devachan the Manasic=20=09 principle will reclothe itself in a new body (the direct=20=09 result of the remaining Karma of the victim) and enter upon a=20=09 new life on earth. [ Quick reincarnation ? ] TA&N (240) 3. Seance Room "Spirits":-- The only "visitors" at seance rooms as astral forms are: 1. suicides, and 2. Elementaries -- Kama-lokic remains & "Black Magi=09 cians" 3. Executed criminals. No pure Spirits visit any seance room. TA&N (240-1) 4. Victims of Vicious Indulgence:-- ( life shortening ) The cause of vice receives punishment. Motive IS everything, and man is punished in a case of direct responsibility only. Vicious indulgence can cause an earlier death than provided for under the personal karma of that life. TA&N (240) 5. Murderers - Executed Persons:-- Under the influence of the last violent thoughts and feelings he felt befor= e execution, the executed person will be ever reviewing on the Astral Plane his anger and fear, and will be receiving the impact of the changes made in the lives of others influenced by his acts. TA&N, 240-1 Those who are vicious, and not insane, are only partly killed on execution. >From the Astral Plane they will be affecting all those who are sensitive enough to "feel and receive" them. Especially at spiritualistic seances. There they project=20=09 scenes of blood and punishment into such weak persons, influ- encing them to copy. [ They may also "haunt" astrally by=20=09 attraction the place of their crime or of execution.] TA&N 241 At scenes of collective murder, where victims are overwhelmed by a group an= d killed, the struggle and emotional impact may be reenacted several times a year for many years.=20=20 [ Ex.: Marathon ] Those sensitive to the Astral images will see this. TA&N (241) 6. Insanity:-- Suicide and murder can be committed while insane. The period between death of the body and the real death would be passed in sleep. (Theos. Articles & Notes, p. 240 241) Best wishes, Dallas =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: Kees=20 Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 4:44 AM To:=20 Subject: Mystery of Death Hello My name is Kees. I am giving lectures at the Theosophical Society in Utrecht / Netherlands, about the Mystery of Death. Very interesting topic. Now am I looking for the difference between the process after a natural death and an unnatural death, especially what H.P. Blavatsky has writing about it.=20 snip Of possible interest? DEVACHAN - KAMA-LOKA -=20 SOME BASIC CONCEPTS Theosophical doctrines draw our attention to some basic concepts:-- 1. The Universe is All. IT has no limits, either in space=20=20 or in time. It is Immortal. It is Life. 2. The Universe operates under cyclic Law. Law cannot be broken. It supports universal progression. Morally It can be said to provide justice and compassion to=20 all beings. Universe =3D Nature in toto. 3. Each being is a unit of Life. In its essence it is a ray of the Universal One. The unit is variously=20=09 called" Monad, or "Life-atom," etc... it is a=20=09 "perpetual motion machine" and is an immortal entity,=20 it passes through all evolutionary processes,=20 acquiring intelligence and experience. It is analogous to a solar system, or to a galaxy. 4. Every being shares in the immortality of the One in its=20 essence. It therefore cannot be destroyed or=20 annihilated as a Unit of Life. Life or energy is universal, and in its diversity it animates every "unit of life." 5. In essence each "part" (Unit of Life), is united=20 through 'electro-magnetic' links with all others. There is one whole; only the 'units' seem to be=20 separate, divided from one-another in terms of our=20=09 gross perceptions of "matter." Their unity is the=20=09 basis for cooperation expressed in brief as=20 Universal Brotherhood. 5. To make a physical form each 'unit' draws together=20=09=09 other units of lesser experience than itself on the=20=09 "Ladder of Being." In doing that it makes itself=20=09 responsible for their growth and well-being. Just=20=09 as a "teacher" makes himself responsible for the=20=09 progress of many pupils. It should be noted that=20=09 while the "Teacher" offers instruction based on=20=09 his experience, it is the responsibility of the=20=09 "pupils" to test and adopt it when they are=20 satisfied as to its accuracy. We call this, in=20=09 general terms : Evolution, when viewed as a whole. 6. Any "form," serves temporarily as a place for those = =20 beings of lesser experience to acquire more ex-=09 perience and thus have opportunity to "advance." Under the operation of LAW, Karma, they acquire,=20=09 each in its own way, a wider experience, a higher=20 degree of consciousness. All those who have not=20=09 yet reached the "human-mind" state, are called=20=09 non-self-conscious "life-atoms." They are in-=09 cipient men-to-be. They inform for the moment, the elemental, mineral, vegetable and animal=20=09 kingdoms, or divisions, of Nature. 7. When the level of self-consciousness (mind, manas, man, = =20 soul) is achieved by any of the "lives," it proceeds further, as a human being, through the=20=09 process of reincarnation, using many successive physical bodies. All live in the same framework of law, progression and mutual support. The=20=09 whole evolutionary scheme is a vast brotherhood. In the man-mind condition/stage, progress is by trial/error, and thus the awareness or attentive faculty is developed as the individual studies=20 the operation of universal laws operating in and around him. 8. Like the Universe, man is seven-fold in constitution: 1. Spirit - Atman, (a "Ray" of the Divine. 2. Discrimination-Intuition-Conscience=20=09 - Buddhi, ( memory of experiences) 3. Thinking, Intellection, Reason,=20=09 - Mind - Manas, (choice & free will 4. Emotion, Sensation, Selfishness -=20=09 - Kama, ( desire, passion ) 5. Vitality, Life-energy, magnetism -=20=09 - Prana, Jiva (vitality, life-force) 6. Electro-magnetic model form -=20 - Astral body, (electro-magnetic form) 7. Physical Body. (Known to us.) 9. The Universe, Man, and all other beings go through an=20 evolutionary cycle which is seven-fold, covering an immense time, during which each being passes through every one of the seven phases that this seven-fold scheme provides, so that each may secure the highest degree of perfection by its own experiences and voluntary decisions. All progress is by self-effort. [ Very much as in our educational system.] 10. The self-conscious man, in which Manas (mind) or self- consciousness is the active principle, makes decisions. Motive actuates Karma. If the decisions are universally-based, 'good' and progress for the unit, and the whole accrues rapidly. Should decisions be self-focused, as opposed to the general good, 'evil' results. Karma thus actuated, teaches the unit through disciplining circumstances what the ideal decisions ought to be. Thus evolution proceeds. All karmic events are the direct result o= f the choices that are individually made. =20=20=20=20 11. Graduates from this "School-of-Life" face the choice or responsibility of becoming, in their turn, "teachers."=20=20=09 That is, of actively assisting in the process of diffusing=20=09 and explaining this universal process. They are superior=20=09 men. [ Similar to the Professors in our Universities.] 12. These are designated Sages, Wise Men, Adepts,=20=09 Masters-of-Wisdom, Arhats, Bodhisattvas, Buddhas, Dhyan Chohans, Tathagatas, Prophets, etc... [ In history we may=20=09 name Jesus, Gautama the Buddha, Krishna, Pythagoras, Lao=20=09 Tse, Plato, Shankaracharya, Appollonius of Tyanna, and many=20=09 others.] they all came as reformers, and if their original teachings are compared it will be found that they all=20 taught the same metaphysical doctrines and practical=20 ethics. 13. The process of securing experience by mankind is=20 called reincarnation. The "Life-atom" that is self- conscious, or the Real Man, uses a physical body which is assembled, as above described for it to live in. In this life process it not only advances (or recedes) depending on its choices, but at the same time serves to assist and=20 elevate by its example the whole mass of "life-atoms" for which it has specific karmic responsibilities.=20=20=20 At death the man-consciousness passes first into a=20=09 state called Kama-Loka, where a separation between the=20=09 moral, and the immoral occurs. A 2nd "death" occurs in a=20=09 short while and the immoral side of one's nature is allowed=20 to disintegrate gradually in the astral plane of Kama-Loka.=20=20 The higher, immortal Ego, the moral side of our being,=20 passes into a state called Devachan, which has three stages 1st the rupa-loka, where the consciousness of the Ego is=20=09 occupied with the aspirational and noble feelings, thoughts=20=09 and actions of the last personal life. This process of=20=09 assimilation being over, the MIND-EGO enters a spiritual=20=09 plane where, united with the "Ray" of the Universal Spirit, it is quasi-omniscient. This 2nd stage is called the arupa-loka [formless stage]. In that condition it is able to review the life last lived within the perspective of all=20 previous lives, and thus trace the line of its Karma. The=20=09 3rd stage is one of preparation for a new incarnation, and=20=09 it begins to draw to itself those personal elements=20 (skandhas) which will be used to make up its new=20 personality.=20 =20 DEVACHAN A brief, concise and helpful description of Devachan is found reprinte= d on p. 258-9 of PRACTICAL OCCULTISM by W. Q. Judge: =20 "...Devachan is a state where the Ego enjoys and does not suffer, suffering being reserved for the earth life. It is not a question of memory strictly speaking, but is a state where the causes generated on this earth which can exhaust in no other state, do so exhaust themselves, leaving the causes relating to this plane of earth life to be afterwards exhausted here, and a= s it is, like this life, a state of illusion, the Ego naturally enlarges all its conceptions of what it thought best and highest when it was alive, for such are the causes that relate to that state." WQJ--Pract. Occ. p. 258-9 The last article has particular reference to the states called: Rupa and Arupa in Devachan.=20 [ p.32 in particular ] "As physical existence has its cumulative intensity from infancy to prime, and its diminishing energy thenceforward to dotage and death, so the dream-life of devachan is lived correspondentially... [bottom] As in actua= l earth-life, so there is for the Ego in devachan--the first flutter of psychic life, the attainment of prime, the gradual exhaustion of force passing into semi-unconsciousness, gradual oblivion and lethargy, total oblivion and--not death but birth: birth into another personality, and the resumption of action which daily begets new congeries of causes, that must be worked out in another term of Devachan, and still another physical rebirth as a (196) new personality..." M L p. 195 "...the sensations, perceptions and ideation of a devachanee in Rupa-Loka, will of course, be of a less subjective nature than they would be in Arupa-Loka, in both of which the devachanic experiences will vary in their presentation to the subject-entity, not only as regards form, color, and substance, but also in their formative potentialities. But not even the most exalted experience of a monad in the highest devachanic state in Arupa-Loka (the last of the seven states)--is comparable to that perfectly subjective condition of pure spirituality from which the monad emerged to "descend into matter," and to which at the completion of the grand cycle it must return. [ on to p. 200]...The "reward provided by nature for men who are benevolent in a large, systematic way" and who have not focused their affections upon an individual or specialty, is that--if pure--they pass the quicker for that through the Kama and Rupa Lokas into the higher sphere of Tribhuvana, since it is one where the formulation of abstract ideas and the consideration of general principles fill the thought of its occupants." M L p. 199 In her article The Mysteries of After Life, ( HPB Articles, Vol. II, 203 ) HPB writes:=20=20 "The spiritual Ego of man moves in Eternity like a pendulum between the hours of life and death. But if these hours marking the periods of terrestrial and spiritual life are limited in their duration, and if the very number of such stages in Eternity between sleep and awakening, illusio= n and reality, has its beginning and its end, on the other hand the spiritual "Pilgrim" is eternal.=20=20 "Therefore are the hours of his post-mortem life--when, disembodied he stands face to face with truth and not the mirages of his transitory earthly existences during the period of that pilgrimage which we call "the cycle of rebirths"--the only reality in our conception..." HPB Art. II 203 "Every Spiritual Individuality has a gigantic evolutionary journey to perform, a tremendous gyratory progress to accomplish...from first to last of the man-bearing planets, as on each of them, the monad has to pass through seven successive races of man...Each of the 7 races send 7 ramifyin= g branchlets from the Parent Branch: and through each of these in turn man has to evolute before he passes on to the next higher race; and that seven times...The branchlets typify varying specimens of humanity--physically and spiritually--and no one of us can miss one single rung of the ladder...Ther= e are other and innumerable manvantaric chains of globes bearing intelligent beings--both in and out of our solar system--the crowns or apexes of evolutionary being in their respective chains, some--physically and intellectually--lower, others immeasurably higher than the man of our chain." M L p. 119 =09 Absorption of Lower Principles into Higher Ones after Death "The world of effects are not lokas or localities. They are the shadow of the world of causes their souls--worlds having like men their seven principles which develop and grow simultaneously with the body. Thus the body of man is wedded to and remains for ever within the body of his planet= ; his individual jivatma life principle that which is called in physiology (72) animal spirits returns after death to its source--Fohat; his linga shariram will be drawn into Akasa; his kamarupa will recommingle with the Universal Sakti--the Will-Force, or universal energy; his 'animal soul' borrowed from the breath of Universal Mind will return to the Dhyan Chohans= ; his sixth principle--whether drawn into or ejected from the matrix of the Great Passive Principle must remain in its own sphere--either as part of th= e crude material or as an individualized entity to be reborn in a higher worl= d of causes. The seventh will carry it from the Devachan and follow the new Ego to its place of re-birth..." M.L. p. 71-2 After Death:--Pure Spirits cannot Communicate, but can be Visited in Spirit "... but, you are mistaken when adding to the above the assurance that 'the spirits of the departed hold direct psychic communication with Souls that are still connected with a human body'--for, they do not."...I trust you have given up the queer idea...that there can possibly be human intelligences inhabiting purely spiritual regions ?...However ethereal and purified of gross matter they may be, the pure Spirits are still subject to the physical and universal laws of matter. They cannot if even they would span the abyss that separates their worlds from ours. They can be visited in Spirit, their Spirit cannot descend and reach us. They attract, they cannot be attracted, their Spiritual polarity being an insuperable difficulty in the way." Mahatma Letters, p. 45 Food for Devachanic Reflection -- Last Thoughts "Very true that "moment" lasts from the first to the last; but then it lasts but as the key-note of the whole harmony, a definite tone of appreciable pitch, around which cluster and develop in progressive variations desires, hopes, dreams, which, in connection with that particula= r "moment" had ever crossed the dreamer's brain during his life-time, without having ever found their realization on earth, and which he now finds fully realized in all their vividness in devachan, without ever suspecting that all the blissful reality is but the progeny begotten by his own fancy, the effects of the mental causes produced by himself. "That particular one moment which will be most intense and uppermost in the thought of his dying brain at the time of dissolution will of course regulate all the other "moments;" still the latter--minor and less vivid though they be--will be there also, having their appointed plan in the phantasmagorical marshaling of past dreams, and must give variety to the whole. No man on earth, but has some decided predilection if not a domineering passion; no person, however humble and poor--and often because of all that--but indulges in dreams and desires unsatisfied though these be= . Is this monotony? Would you call such variations ad infinitum on the one theme, and that theme modeling itself, on, and taking color and its definit= e shape from, that group of desires which was the most intense during life "a blank destitution of all knowledge...?" M L 192 =20=20=20=20=20=09 =20=20=20=20=20 From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Jan 31 04:37:38 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29525 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2006 12:37:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2006 12:37:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.67) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2006 12:37:37 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.217] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1F3ujF-00048G-7B; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 07:35:25 -0500 To: "AA-BNStudy" Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 04:35:11 -0800 Message-ID: <000501c62662$cbec7680$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79d668323fae4127d76e2458e862f9046b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.67 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: RESTITUTION OF WQJ -- JUDGE CASE X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=oxp7zvJ9OlusMjzd5HA4A7vOBVcHLygWkhyxB__Ymx_Gig X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1/31/2006 4:32 AM Dear Steve: Thanks and appreciated. See my proposal below: Best wishes, Dallas ===================== -----Original Message----- From: steven l Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 5:53 AM To: Cc: Subject: Re: RESTITUTION OF WQJ -- JUDGE CASE Dear Dal.. All of your statements are most refreshing to see in print. And I suggest that Adyar be petitioned to take an open look and new assessment of the Judge issue. I know that they will have issues with this, because they seem to have a corporate stance, as it were, regarding what is politically correct for them on William Quan Judge. But it is time, that they, those who are in the position to make statements of credibility within the the Society, be put to task regarding their fidelity to truth. I think that Adyar has no idea, or at least acts as if they don't, as to how their close mindedness effects the world at large. Given that there is no more important Movement than the Theosophical on the world scene (I give as reference the Great Master's Letter, and the effects of that Movement in all areas of our culture), to have such an obvious schisim between thinking people and The so-called Theosophical Society out of Adyar regarding the easily recognisable Power for Good which Judge was and must continue to be, although not seemingly in our midst at the present time, is really inexcusable. That inexcusability is really a karmic "lead weight" around the neck of the Movement in the world regarding the greater effects for good that it could have, if this "lead weight" were to be lifted. The Narada issue in Tacoma Washington being just one of the reflections of this corporate method of the T.S. in America. It immediately polarizes in the way that the obortion issue does when made a political pawn. I think it should be clear to any who read this response, and all others like it, that all of this has nothing to do with what might be seen as an "us against them" attitude. Rather, it is a plea that those in power within this Adyar Society, take another comprehensive look at the work of William Quan Judge, for the purpose of unfettering the greater Movement for which he gave his life as a dedicated reflection of the Mahatmas in the world. Steve =============================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: W.Dallas TenBroeck To: Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 6:16 AM Subject: RE: RESTITUTION OF W Q J's REPUTATION -- JUDGE CASE 1894 In my opinion: For the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY [Adyar and elsewhere] to make a full restitution and admit error in the matter of RESTITUTION of Mr. W. Q. Judge's REPUTATION -- JUDGE CASE 1894 would augment its reputation for fair and honest dealing tremendously. I say: better late than never! Otherwise, it appears that present-day officers, management and members of the T S continue to blindly support the blunders and errors of the past mismanaging. The T S motto is: "There is no higher religion than TRUTH!" Let this be demonstrated. All will applaud. So long as that attitude prevails a serious blot on the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY remains unredressed. It is better that the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY do this internally. Pelletier's book: THE JUDGE -- published by a THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY in Edmonton, Canada is a start. If this spurs further effort by the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY membership I say "Well done." The THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY was designed originally as a protective vehicle / shell for the promulgation and exemplification of THEOSOPHY It has no excuse for existence other than to do that. Judge was an original Founder of the THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY [New York] in 1875, and worked unceasingly for THEOSOPHY through the original THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY (which was never removed from New York de jure) until after he died. Every member ought to read the book mentioned below. Best wishes, W. Dallas TenBroeck ======================= Book: The THEOSOPHICAL MOVEMENT (1875-1950) pp. 380 [based on documents] $ 6.00 -- Theosophy Company, Los Angeles, 90007 www. ULT.org Phone 213 748-7244 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dalval14@earthlink.net Tue Jan 31 05:17:30 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: dalval14@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26095 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2006 13:17:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2006 13:17:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.67) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2006 13:17:29 -0000 Received: from [216.175.72.217] (helo=DALLAS) by smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1F3vKB-0005HU-As; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 08:13:36 -0500 To: "'Theosophy Study List'" Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 05:13:21 -0800 Message-ID: <000a01c62668$211c87d0$0a0110ac@DALLAS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: High In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: c552449649a8b16d1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79ca5722d612401b61667a13272ccaf64e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.67 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "W.Dallas TenBroeck" Reply-To: Subject: RE: our deepest fear # X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=52898573; y=GyUExK_zoI-QtGFW-R25aNZGdSKa9HGeN-BLWMHYEHMI2g X-Yahoo-Profile: dalval2 1/31/2006 3:12 AM Dear Gerry: Would these help? Dal Our "deepest fear" arises from IGNORANCE ?=20=20=20=20 What about the desire NOT TO KNOW? =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D From: SYNTHESIS OF OCCULT SCIENCE=20=20 [WQJ Art I p 23 - 29] NATURE IS ONE WHOLE - NO MISSING LINKS Back of occult science there lies a complete and all-embracing Philosophy..= . It regards Nature as one complete whole, and so the student of occultism ma= y stand at either point of observation. He may from the stand-point of Nature's wholeness [24] and completeness follow the process of=20 segregation and differentiation to the minutest atom conditioned in space and time; or, from the phenomenal display of the atom, he may reach forward and upward till the atom becomes an integral part of cosmos, involved in the universal harmony of creation.= =20 The modern scientist may do this incidentally or empirically, but the occultist does it systematically and habitually, and hence philosophically. The modern scientist is confessedly and boastfully agnostic. The occultist is reverently and progressively gnostic.=20 ONE LIFE Modern science recognizes matter as "living" and "dead," "organic" and "inorganic," and "Life" as merely a phenomenon of matter. Occult science recognizes, "foremost of all, the postulate that there is no such thing in Nature as inorganic substances or bodies. Stones, minerals, rocks, and even chemical 'atoms' are simply organic units in profound lethargy. Their coma has an end, and their inertia becomes activity." (Secret Doctrine, Vol. I, p. 626 fn.) .... Occultism recognizes ONE UNIVERSAL, ALL-PERVADING LIFE. Modern science recognizes life as a special phenomenon of matter, a mere transient manifestation due to temporary conditions. Even logic and analogy ought to have taught us better, for the simple reason that so-called "inorganic" or "dead" matter constantly becomes organic and living, while matter from the organic plane is continually being reduced to the inorganic. .... Glimpses of this philosophy have been sufficient to give to minds like Kepler, Descartes, Leibnitz, Kant, Schopenhauer, and, lastly, to Prof. Crookes, ideas that claimed and held the interested attention of the scientific world. While, at certain points, such writers supplement and corroborate each other, neither anywhere nor altogether do they reveal the complete synthesis, for none of them possessed it, and yet it has all along existed.=20 MONADS [TWO IN ONE] PERVADE THE UNIVERSE "Let the reader remember these 'Monads' of Leibnitz, every one of which is = a living mirror of the universe, every monad reflecting every other, and compare this view and definition with certain Sanskrit stanzas (Slokas) translated by Sir William Jones, in which it is said that the creative source of the Divine Mind,...'Hidden in a veil of thick darkness, formed mirrors of the atoms of the world, and cast reflection from its own face on every atom'." - S.D., Vol. I, p. 623.=20 SCIENCE IS ANCIENT AND UNIVERSAL It may be humiliating to "Modern Exact Science" and repugnant to the whole of Christendom to have to admit that the Pagans whom they have despised, an= d the "Heathen Scriptures" they long ridiculed or ignored, nevertheless possess a fund of wisdom never dreamed of under Western skies. They have th= e lesson, however, to learn, that Science by no means originated in, nor is i= t confined to, the West, nor are superstition and ignorance confined to the East. =20 It can easily be shown that every real discovery and every important advancement in modern science have already been anticipated centuries ago b= y ancient science and philosophy. It is true that these ancient doctrines hav= e been embodied in [ 26 ] unknown languages and symbols, and recorded in book= s inaccessible to Western minds till a very recent date.=20 Far beyond all this inaccessibility, however, as a cause preventing these old truths from reaching modern times, has been the prejudice, the scorn an= d contempt of ancient learning manifested by the leaders of modern thought. ..... METAPHYSICS AND PHILOSOPHY A BASIS The scope and bearing of philosophy itself are hardly yet appreciated by modern thought, because of its materialistic tendency.=20 A complete science of metaphysics and a complete philosophy of science are not yet even conceived of as possible; hence the ancient wisdom by its very vastness has escaped recognition in modern times. .... SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE AND ETHICS On these higher planes of consciousness the law of progress is absolute; knowledge and power go hand in hand with beneficence to man, not alone to the individual possessors of wisdom, but to the whole human race.=20 The custodians of the higher knowledge are equally by both motive and development almoners of the divine. These are the very conditions of the higher consciousness referred to. The synthesis of occult science becomes, therefore, the higher synthesis of the faculties of man.=20 What matter, therefore, if the ignorant shall scout its very existence, or treat it with ridicule and contempt? Those who know of its existence and wh= o have learned something of its scope and nature can, in their turn, afford t= o smile, but with pity and sorrow at the willing bondage to ignorance and misery that scorns enlightenment and closes its eyes to the plainest truths of experience.=20 "In reality, as Occult philosophy teaches us, everything which changes is organic; it has the life principle in it, and it has all the potentiality o= f the higher lives. If, as we say, all in nature is an aspect of the one element, and life is universal, how can there be such a thing as an inorganic atom!" (1) Man is a perfected animal, but before he could have reached perfection even on the animal plane, there must have dawned upon him the light of a higher plane.=20 Only the perfected animal can cross the threshold of the next higher, or th= e human plane, and as he does so there shines upon him the ray from the suprahuman plane. Therefore, as the dawn of humanity illumines the animal plane, and as a guiding star lures the Monad to higher consciousness, so th= e dawn of divinity illumines the [28] human plane, luring the monad to the supra-human plane of consciousness.=20 This is neither more nor less than the philosophical and metaphysical aspec= t of the law of evolution.=20 Man has not one principle more than the tiniest insect;=20 he is, however, "the vehicle of a fully developed Monad, self-conscious and deliberately following its own line of progress, whereas in the insect, and even the higher animal, the higher triad of principles is absolutely dormant." The original Monad has, therefore, locked within it the potentiality of divinity. .... These two generalizations of Occult philosophy, endowing every atom with th= e potentiality of life, and regarding every insect or animal as already possessing the potentialities of the higher planes though these powers are yet dormant, add to the ordinary Spencerian theory of evolution precisely that element that it lacks, viz, the metaphysical and philosophical; and, thus endowed, the theory becomes synthetical. The Monad, then, is essentially and potentially the same in the lowest vegetable organism, up through all forms and gradations of animal life to man, and beyond.=20 There is a gradual unfolding of its potentialities from "Monera" to man, an= d there are two whole planes of consciousness, the sixth and the seventh "senses," not yet unfolded to the average humanity. Every monad that is enclosed in a form, and hence limited by matter, becomes conscious on its own plane and in its own degree.=20 CONSCIOUSNESS, therefore, no less than sensitiveness, belongs to plants as well as to animals.=20 SELF-CONSCIOUSNESS belongs to man, because, while embodied in a form, the higher triad of principles,=20 Atma-Buddhi-Manas, is no longer dormant, but active. This activity is, however, far from being fully developed. When this activity has become full= y developed, man will already have become conscious on a still higher plane, endowed with the sixth and the opening of the seventh sense, and will have become a "god" in the sense given to that term by Plato and his followers. 29 In thus giving this larger and completer meaning to the law of evolution, the Occult philosophy entirely eliminates the "missing links" of modern science, and, by giving to man a glimpse of his nature and destiny, not onl= y points out the line of the higher evolution, but puts him in possession of the means of achieving it. The "atoms" and "monads" of the Secret Doctrine are very different from the atoms and molecules of modern science.=20 To the latter these are mere particles of matter endowed with blind force: to the former, they are the "dark nucleoles," and potentially "Gods," conscious and intelligent from their primeval embodiment at the beginning o= f differentiation in the dawn of the Manvantara. There are no longer any hard and fast lines between the "organic" and the "inorganic"; between the "living" and "dead" matter.=20 Every atom is endowed with and moved by intelligence, and is conscious in its own degree, on its own plane of development.=20 It may be conceived that the "Ego" in man is a monad that has gathered to itself innumerable experiences through aeons of time, slowly unfolding its latent potencies through plane after plane of matter. It is hence called the "eternal pilgrim." The Manasic, or mind principle, is cosmic and universal. It is the creator of all forms, and the basis of all law in nature. Not so with consciousness.=20 CONSCIOUSNESS is a condition of the monad as the result of embodiment in matter and the dwelling in a physical form. Self-consciousness, which from the animal plane looking upward is the beginning of perfection, from the divine plane looking downward is the perfection of selfishness and the curs= e of separateness. It is the "world of illusion" that man has created for himself.=20 "MAYA is the perceptive faculty of every Ego which considers itself a Unit, separate from and independent of the One Infinite and Eternal Sat or 'be-ness."=20 The "eternal pilgrim" must therefore mount higher, and flee from the plane of self-consciousness it has struggled so hard to reach. 30 The complex structure that we call "Man" is made up of a congeries of almos= t innumerable "Lives." Not only every microscopic cell of which the tissues are composed, but the molecules and atoms of which these cells are composed= , are permeated with the essence of the "One Life."=20 Every so-called organic cell is known to have its nucleus, a center of fine= r or more sensitive matter. The nutritive, all the formative and functional processes consist o= f flux and re-flux, of inspiration and expiration, to and from the nucleus. The nucleus is therefore in its own degree and after its kind a "monad" imprisoned in a "form." Every microscopic cell, therefore, has a consciousness and an intelligence of its own, and man thus consists of innumerable "lives." This is but physiological synthesis, logically deduced no less from the known facts in physiology and histology than the logical sequence of the philosophy of occultism. Health of the body as a whole depends on the integrity of all its parts, and more especially upon their harmonious association and cooperation.=20 A diseased tissue is one in which a group of individual cells refuse to cooperate, and wherein is set up discordant action, using less or claiming more than their due share of food or energy. Disease of the very tissue of mans body is neither more nor less than the "sin of separateness." Moreover, the grouping of cells is upon the principle of hierarchies. Smaller groups are subordinate to larger congeries, and these again are subordinate to larger, or to the whole. Ever= y microscopic cell therefore typifies and epitomizes man, as man is an epitom= e of the Universe.=20 As already remarked, the "Eternal Pilgrim," the Alter-Ego in man, is a mona= d progressing through the ages.=20 By right and by endowment the ego is king in the domain of mans bodily life= . It descended into matter in the cosmic process till it reached the mineral plane, and then journeyed upward through the "three kingdoms" till it reached the human plane. The elements of its being, like the cells and molecules of mans body, are groupings of structures accessory or subordinat= e to it. The human monad or Ego is therefore akin to all below it and heir to all above it, linked by indissoluble bonds to spirit and matter, "God" and "Nature."=20 31 The attributes that it gathers, and the faculties that it unfolds, are but the latent and dormant potentialities awaking to conscious life. The tissue cells constitute mans bodily structure, but the order in which they are arranged, the principle upon which they are grouped, constituting the human form, is not simply an evolved shape from the lower animal plane, but an involved principle from a higher plane, an older world, viz, the "Lunar Pitris." ...the Manasic, or mind element, with its cosmic and infinite potentialities, is not merely the developed "instinct" of the animal.=20 Mind is the latent or active potentiality of Cosmic Ideation, the essence o= f every form, the basis of every law, the potency of every principle in the universe.=20 Human thought is the reflection or reproduction in the realm of mans consciousness of these forms, laws, and principles.=20 Hence man senses and apprehends nature just as nature unfolds in him. When, therefore, the Monad has passed through the form of the animal ego, involve= d and unfolded the human form,=20 the higher triad of principles awakens from the sleep of ages and over-shadowed by the "Manasa-putra" and built into its essence and substance.=20 How could man epitomize Cosmos if he did not touch it at every point and involve it in every principle? If mans being is woven in the web of destiny, his potencies and possibilities take hold of divinity as the woof and pattern of his boundless life. Why, then, should he grow weary or disheartened? Alas! why should he be degraded, this heir of all things! ...= . =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =09 THE CURE OF DISEASES MORTAL ills and the needs of the stomach rank next after the instinct of self-preservation among all the subjects which engage the attention of the race. If we do not go on living we cannot do the work we think there is to do; if we remain hungry we will lose the power to work properly or to enjoy= , and at last come to the door of death. From bad or scanty food follows a train of physical ills called generally disease.=20 Disease reaches us also through too much food. So in every direction these ills attack us; even when our feeding is correct and sufficient it is found that we fall a prey because our Karma, settled by ourselves is some previou= s life, ordains that we enter on this one handicapped by the hereditary taint due to the wickedness or or the errors of our fathers and mothers. And the records of science show that the taint in the blood or the lymph may jump over many lives, attacking with virulence some generation distant very far from the source.=20 What wonder, then that the cure of disease is an all-absorbing subject with every one! The Christian knows that it is decreed by Almighty God that He will visit the sins of the fathers upon the children even to the third and fourth generation, and the non-believer sees that by some power in nature the penalty is felt even so far. All of this has given to the schools of mental and so-called "metaphysical" healing a strong pull on the fears, the feelings, the wishes, and the bodie= s of those to whom they address themselves, and especially in the United States. That there is more attention given to the subject in America seems true to those who have been on the other side of the Atlantic and noticed how small is the proportion of people there who know anything about the subject. But in the United States in every town many can be found who know about these schools and practice after their methods. Why it has more hold here can be left to conjecture, as the point under consideration is why it has any hold at all. It is something like patent medicine.=20 Offer a cure to people for their many ills, and they will take it up; offer it cheap, and they will use it; offer it as an easy method, and they will rush for it under certain conditions. Metaphysical healing is easy for some because it declares, first, that no money need be paid to doctors for medicine; second, that medical fluids and drugs may be dispensed with; and third that it is easily learned and practiced. The difficulties that arise out of the necessities of logic are not present for those who never studied it, but are somewhat potent with those who reason correctly; - but that is not usual for the general run of minds. They see certain effects and accept the assumed cause as the right one. But many persons will not even investigate the system, because they think it requires them to postulate th= e non-existence of that which they see before their eyes. The statements quoted from the monthly Christian Science in March PATH are bars in the way of such minds. If they could be induced to just try the method offered for cure, belief might result, for effects indeed often follow. But the popular mind is not in favor of "mind cure," and more prominence is given in the daily papers to cases of death under it than to cures. And very full report= s always appear of a case such as one in March, where "faith curers," in orde= r to restore life, went to praying over the dead body of one of the members o= f a believing family. During a recent tour over this country from the Atlantic to the Pacific and back, I had the opportunity of meeting hundreds of disciples of these schools, and found in nearly all cases that they were not addicted to logic but calmly ignored very plain propositions, satisfied that if cures were accomplished the cause claimed must be the right one, and almost without exception they denied the existence of evil or pain or suffering.=20 There was a concurrence of testimony from all to show that the dominant ide= a in their minds was the cure of their bodily ills and the continuance of health. The accent was not on the beauty of holiness or the value to them and the community of a right moral system and right life, but on the cure o= f their diseases. .... And, indeed, one does not have to be good to gain the benefit of the teachings. It is enough to have confidence, to assert boldly that this does not exist and that that has no power to hurt one. I do not say the teachers of the "science" agree with me herein, but only that whether you are good o= r bad the results will follow the firm practice of the method enjoined, irrespective of the ideas of the teachers. For in pure mind-cure as compared with its congener "Christian Science," yo= u do not have to believe in Jesus and the gospels, yet the same results are claimed, for Jesus taught that whatever you prayed for with faith, that you should have. Scientific research discloses that the bodies of our race are infected with taints that cause nearly all of our diseases, and school after school of medicine has tried and still tries to find the remedy that will dislodge th= e foulness in the blood. This is scientific, since it seeks the real physical cause; metaphysical healing says it cures, but cannot prove that the cause is destroyed and not merely palliated. That there is some room for doubt history shows us, for none will deny that many pure thinking and acting pai= r have brought forth children who displayed some taint derived from a distant ancestor. Evidently their pure individual thoughts had no power over the great universal development of the matter used by those human bodies. Turning now to medicine we find the Italian Count Mattei promulgating a system of cure by the homeopathic use of subtle vegetable essences which ma= y well give pause to those who would make universal the curing by faith or mind alone. Some of his liquids will instantly stop a violent pain, restore sight, give back hearing, and dissipate abnormal growths. His globules will make a drunken man sober, and, given to the nurse who suckles a babe, will cure the child who takes the milk. The drunkard and the child do not think about or have faith in the remedies, yet they cure. Is it not better to restore health by physical means and leave the high teachings of the healers, all taken from well know sources, for the benefit of our moral nature?=20 And if Christian healers read these lines, should they not remember that when the prophet restored the widow's son he used physical means - his own magnetism applied simultaneously to every member of the child's body, and Jesus, when the woman who touched his garment was cured, lost a portion of his vitality - not his thoughts - for he said "virtue" had gone out from him? .... The mass of testimony through the ages is against healing physical ills by the use of the higher forces in nature, and the reason, once well known but later on forgotten, is the one given in the article of January, 1892, - tha= t diseases are gross manifestations showing themselves on their way out of th= e nature so that one may be purified. To arrest them though thought ignorantl= y directed is to throw them back into their cause and replant them in their mental plane. This is the true ground of our objection to metaphysical healing practices, which we distinguish from the assumptions and so-called philosophy on which those methods are claimed to stand. For we distinctly urge that the effects are not brought by any philosophical system whatever, but by the practical though ignorant use of psycho-physiological processes. William Q. Judge Path, September, 1892 --------------------------------------------------- =A0 REPLANTING DISEASES FOR FUTURE USE The ills I wish to speak of now are those of the body. Our moral nature wil= l be purified and ennobled, widened and strengthened, by attention to the precepts of the saints and sages who through all the ages continue speaking for our benefit. And I refer to these with a view to "mind-cure" and "metaphysical healing." In the article on the "Cure of Diseases" I stated our real ground of objections to the practices demonstrated variously, as the practitioners have been Theosophists, Christians, or followers of mind healers, to be directed to methods which in fact introduce a new sort of palliative that throws back into our inner, hidden planes of life diseases otherwise passin= g down and out through the natural gateway, our bodily frame. A consideration of this subject requires that we enquire awhile into the complete nature of man. This inquiry has been made before by much greater minds than mine, and I only hand on what they have found and what I have corroborated for myself. ... But the field of Theosophic research is not=20 devoid of an anatomical enumeration, so to say, of the parts of the inner body-the "spiritual body" of some of these schools-nor of the "mind" spoken of by them all. The mind is manas of the Hindus. It is a part of the immortal man. The "spiritual body" is not immortal. It is compounded of astral body with the passions and desires. Mind is the container of the efficient causes of our circumstances, our inherent character and the seeds that sprout again and again as physical diseases as well as those purely mental. It is the mover who is either voluntary in his motion, free if it will, of moved hither and thither by every object and influence and colored by every idea. From life to life it occupies body after body, using a new brain instrument in each incarnation.=20 As Patanjali put it ages ago, in mind lie planted all seeds with self-reproductive power inherent in them, only waiting for time and circumstances to sprout again. Here are the causes for our diseases. Produc= t of thought truly, but thought long finished and now transformed into cause beyond our present thought. Lying like tigers by the edge of the jungle's pool ready to spring when the hour arrives, they may come forward accompanied by counteractions due to other causes, or them may come alone. When these seeds sprout and liberate their forces they show themselves in diseases in the body, where they exhaust themselves. To attack them with th= e forces belonging to the plane of mind is to force them again to their hidin= g place, to inhibit their development, to stop their exhaustion and transfer to the grosser level of life. They are forcibly dragged back, only to lie waiting once more for their natural expression in some other life. That natural expression is through a body, or rather through the lowest vehicle in use in any evolutionary period. This is a great wheel that ever revolves, and no man can stop it. To imagin= e we can escape from any cause connected with us is to suppose that law and order desert the manifested universe. No such divorce is possible. We must work everything out to the last item.=20 The moment we evolve a thought and thus a cause, it must go on producing its effects, all becoming in turn causes for other effects and sweeping down the great evolutionary current i= n order to rise again. To suppose we can stop this ebb and flow is chimerical in the extreme.=20 Hence the great sages have always said we have to let the Karmic effects roll on while we set new and better causes in motion, and that even the perfect sage has to endure in his bodily frame that which belongs to it through Karma. The inner anatomical structure should also be known. The ethereal body has its own current-nerves, for want of a better word, changes and method of growth and action, just as the gross body has. It is, in fact, the real body, for it seldom alters throughout life, while the physical counterpart changes every moment, its atoms going and coming upon the matrix or model furnished by the ethereal body. The inner currents emanate from their own centers and are constantly in motion. They are affected by thoughts and the reflection of the body in its physiological changes. They each act upon the other incessantly. (Every center of the inner body has its appropriate correspondent in the physical one, which it affects and through which it is in turn acted upon.) It is by means of these subtle currents-called vital airs when translated from the Sanscrit-that impressions are conveyed to the mind above, and through them also are the extraordinary feats of the seance room and the Indian Yogi accomplished. And just as one may injure his body by ignorantly using drugs or physical practices, so can the finer currents and nerves of the inner man be thrown out of adjustment if one in pride or ignorance attempts, uninstructed to deal with them.=20 The seeds of disease being located primarily in the mind, they begin to exhaust themselves through the agency of the inner currents that carry the appropriate vibrations down upon the physical plane. If left to themselves-aside from palliations and aids in throwing off-they pass out into the great crucible of nature and one is free from them forever. Therefore pain is said to be a kind friend who relieves the real man of a load of sin.=20 Now the moment the practices of the mind-curer are begun, what happens is that the hidden inner currents are violently grasped, and, if concentration is persisted in, the downward vibrations are thrown up and altered so as to carry back the cause to the mind, where it is replanted with the addition o= f the purely selfish desires that led to the practice. It is impossible to destroy the cause; it must be allowed to transform itself. And when it is replaced in the mind, it waits there until an opportunity occurs either in this life or in the next rebirth. In some cases the physical and psychological structures are not able to stand the strain, so that sometimes the return of the downward vibrations i= s so great and sudden that insanity results; in other cases disease with violent characteristics set in.=20 The high tone of thought enjoined by some schools of healers has the effect of making the cause of trouble sink deeper into hiding, and probably adds t= o concentration. But any thought would do as well, provided concentration is persisted in, for it is the concentration that makes the effect, and not th= e philosophy. The system of affirming and denying make concentration easier.= =20 For when the practitioner begins, he immediately brings to play certain inner forces by virtue of his dwelling on one thing. The veriest savages do the same. They have long taught it for various purposes, and their ideals g= o no higher than food and sleep, fetishes and superstitions.=20 When one is thus operating on another who is willing, the change of inner nerve currents is brought by sympathy, which in these cases is the same as the phenomenon so well known in physics by the name of induction. When a person is operated on-or against, I call it-the effect is either repelled o= r produced. If produced, it is by the same induction brought about without hi= s knowledge and because he was not stronger than the operator.=20 Here is the danger again. The schools of hypnotists are teaching how to do it. The mind-currents and "metaphysicians" are doing the same. An army of possibilities lurks under it all: for already there are those practitioners who deliberately practice against their opponents, sitting by day after day to paralyze the efforts of other people. It is like dynamite in the hands o= f a child. Some day it will explode, and those who taught it will be responsible, since instead of being taught it ought to be warned against. The world could get along with what disease there is, if it only turned attention to high ethics and altruistic endeavor. For after a few centuries of right living the nations would have purged themselves and built up a right moral building well founded on the rocks of true philosophy, charity, and love.=20 William Q. Judge Path, October, 1892 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D Dallas =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: Gerald Sc Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 9:18 PM To:=20 Subject: Re: our deepest fear # <> snip From global-theosophy@stofanet.dk Tue Jan 31 11:09:14 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55707 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2006 19:09:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2006 19:09:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mx03.stofanet.dk) (212.10.10.13) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2006 19:09:10 -0000 Received: from 56347a74.rev.stofanet.dk ([86.52.122.116] helo=khidr6094418a5) by mx03.stofanet.dk (envelope-from ) with smtp id 1F40nf-00036Z-25 for theos-talk@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:04:26 +0100 Message-ID: <000601c62699$dffd2980$747a3456@khidr6094418a5> To: Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:09:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Originating-IP: 212.10.10.13 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "M. Sufilight" Subject: Mass-emailing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=206055933; y=hCuxkFBxxcczX5cB0SiIhWOuoBxYDq_QTbxMCYpyzo_M X-Yahoo-Profile: kidhr7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hallo all, Just to let you all know. One person who is a member of this group has this month emailed 81 of the so far 275 emails of this month (January 2006) emails at Theos-talk forum. My motive with this email are compassionate. from M. Suflight with peace and love... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com Tue Jan 31 16:48:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Sender: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93073 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2006 00:48:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2006 00:48:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web33409.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.206.141) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2006 00:48:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 62610 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Feb 2006 00:48:04 -0000 Message-ID: <20060201004804.62608.qmail@web33409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.9.23.244] by web33409.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 16:48:04 PST Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 16:48:04 -0800 (PST) To: danielhcaldwell@yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 68.142.206.141 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0:0 From: "Daniel H. Caldwell" Subject: Esoteric Papers of Mme. Blavatsky X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=39205895; y=uJ7znQ41uGx5u-mjdwiBtfCVD2xQG8f6gOXKm2mpQPvgBP-h1tJAGhB0 X-Yahoo-Profile: danielhcaldwell Esoteric Papers of Mme. Blavatsky: A Comprehensive Compilation of H. P. Blavatsky's Esoteric Papers For more information about this 2005 publication, see: http://blavatskyarchives.com/hpbesotericpapers.htm Daniel Blavatsky Study Center http://blavatskyarchives.com