Theos-Talk Archives (November 2012 Message tt00103)

Thanks Daniel....interesting links and infos.


A few views...

The following are merely my views. Who knows, I might be wrong....
I give them to all readers of this post and not only to you Daniel.

Comparative studying was a part of the Theosophical Society objects in the old days...
A few comparative words on, ghosts, spooks, and the Doppelganger or Doppelgangers (plural). Because there are more than one kind of them. And on the seven-fold constitution of man.

I have to give thanks to Cass (member of this forum) for having (at least in a certain sense) motivated me to write these words....


Mahatma Letter no 13.
"H.P.B. never told you he was S.M.'s astral soul, but that what he often mistook for + was his own higher Self, his divine atman -- not linga Sarira or astral Soul, or the Kama rupa the independent doppelganger -- again. + cannot contradict himself; + cannot be ignorant of the truth, so often misrepresented by S.M.; + cannot preach the occult Sciences and then defend mediumship, not even in that highest form described by his pupil."
http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/mahatma_letters.htm

The Kama Rupa is also a doppelganger says the one named KH.
So if HPB's terminology was imprecise with regard to the word Astral double (Linga Sharira) and Doppelganger, we also find that KH's must have been so. The quotes on KH in the below should make this view more clear to the readers.

This claim of being imprecise or unclear was mentioned by Leadbeater and Besant, who renamed the Astral Double" (Linga Sharira) by Blavatsky, and gave it the name "Etheric Double" - and apperently threw the Pranic (Jiva) body away in the trashcan deleted it from their own sevenfold schema. Leadbeater placing his "Etheric Double" at the three etheric upper-subplanes of the Physical. 
--- See The Astral Plane by Leadbeater, p. 12-13 + p. 37-38 - on why Blavatsky according to Leadbeater was imprecise. 
--- See the diagram or table Man Visible and Invisible, p. 21 on the location of the Etheric Double given by Leadbeater. 
--- And Annie Besant: "Ancient Wisdom", p. 177 - her table says the same as Leadbeater's. 
--- And expand these tables with authors like Alice A. Bailey and Joshua Stone and various other authors - who followed Besant and Leadbeater, while they claimed contact with Master KH, Morya and a host of other masters. 

It is interesting, very interesting to contemplate the differences...between Blavatsky's and KH's words and the other authors.
And consider the fact the the exoteric Theosophical Society was absolutely non-sectarian in its early years --- and what it is now --- and what all the later ofshoots are. because the non-sectarian aspect seem gone.

Also Mahatma Letter XV:
" In the Globe, the elementals (of which there are in all seven species) form (a) a gross body, (b) her fluidic double (linga sariram), (c) her life principle (jiva); (d) her fourth principle kama rupa is formed by her creative impulse working from centre to circumference; (e) her fifth principle (animal soul or Manas, physical intelligence) is embodied in the vegetable (in germ) and animal kingdoms; (f) her sixth principle (or spiritual soul, Buddhi) is man (g) and her seventh principle (atma) is in a film of spiritualized akasa that surrounds her."
http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/mahatma_letters.htm


Also Mahatma Letter XLV. The one known as KH reproves A. P. Sinnett, it seems:
"A psychic Society is being founded and he has succeeded in bringing over to it Wyld, Massey and others. Shall I also tell you the future of that new body? It will grow and develop and expand and finally the Theos. Soc. of London will be swamped in it, and lose first its influence then -- its name, until Theosophy in its very name becomes a thing of the Past."
http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/mahatma_letters.htm

Also Mahatma Letter LIX + XIII:
Where the Jivatma is defined as the 7th principle, and related to a plane lower than the Linga Sharira.
http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/mahatma_letters.htm


See Blavatsky Collected Writings Vol. X, p. 217-219:
(H. P. Blavatsky on the THREE "Doubles" in the seven-fold constitution of man.)
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v10/y1888_094.htm

H. P. Blavatsky on the THREE "Doubles" in the seven-fold constitution of man.
--- a) First. The lowest called the "Shadow" Double, and clearly related to Linga Sharira and only with the vital principle during life, but not after death. I cannot recall that I have seen a clear explanation on the same from other writers Blavatsky, Besant and Leadbeater. --- And Blavatsky's says: "the materialized form is always that of the medium's 'ASTRAL' or Protean Body." And that is why some of us call the Linga Sharira by the name the Astral body, and wonder why others would call the Astral Double by the name "Etheric Double." And call the Astral body by the name Kama Rupa and then go and confuse a well-written terminology. 

Let me seek to rephrase it all: Leadbeater and his followers term the Etheric Double is the dead shell (of etheric matter - the etheric physical science seek to find and call "dark matter" and other terms today) sometimes seen over graveyards. Leadbeater's vitalized Etheric Double is the Linga Sharira (Astral Double) mentioned by Blavatsky who also include the graveyrad shell as the Astral Double. It is because of the fact that the Astral Double often is vitalized (for instance at seances) that I prefer Blavatsky's definition and not Leadbeater's, Besant's and Alice A. Bailey's seven-fold schema on the Constituion of Man, and because the Pranic (Jiva) or Vital Principle is omitted in these latter named authors seven-fold schemas. Blavatksy and Master KH did not omit it - and now they are called imprecise by Leadbeater and apperently also by the other later authors. In this sense I disagree.

--- b) Second. The Second is called the "Spook" or Mayavi-rupa. During life this image is the vehicle both of thought and of the animal passions and desires, drawing at one and the same time from the lowest terrestrial manas (mind) and Kama, the element of desire. It is dual in its potentiality, and after death forms, what is called in the East Bhoot, or Kama-rupa, but which is better known to theosophists as the "Spook"  - Again this explanation is not found among the later theosophical authors as far as I am ware of, but maybe my memory does not serve me well.
--- c) Third. The Third is the true Ego or "causal body" or "karmic body". It is not only Manas, but a compund of Manas and the Monad. And a compund of Manas + Buddhi, ordinarily. - Interestingly we have repeatedly seen various later theosophical authors claim that the "causal body" is only related to the Manas - or - least clearly give this impression in their tables and schemas. 

Documentaions and references are given here:
a)  A treatise on Cosmic Fire" by Alice A. Bailey, page 94 ---  (http://www.light-weaver.com/fire/img1046-1.gif). 

b) Joshua Stone's "The Complete Ascension Manual: How to Achieve Ascension in This Lifetime" (page 184). (See books.google.com - there is a version where it can be seen.)

c) Leadbeater's "Man Visible and Invisible", p. 21. (http://archive.org/stream/manvisibleinvis00lead#page/20/mode/2up ) 

d) Annie Besant "Ancient Wisdom", p. 177. 

e) --- A more prcise version is here: 
H. P. Blavatsky: "Key to Theosophy", p. 121 --- and Theosophical Glossary" the term: "Causal Body".
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v10/y1888_094.htm


--- But this is only with regard to the EXOTERIC presentation of the seven-fold constitution of man. A more ESOTERIC version was given by Blavatsky in her Esoteric Section Instructions No. I + II. BCW, Vol. XII, page 536-548, especially page 546-548. The real ESOTERIC Seven-fold schema or table is given on page 533, Vol. XII in Blavatsky's Collected Writings. And this table or diagram named - Diagram II -  is mentioned on the page 546-548.
(Esoteric Instruction No. I - pages 514-541)
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v12/y1890_053.htm 
(Esoteric Instruction No. II - pages 542-580)
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v12/y1890_054.htm 


Questions to all readers:
I do hope that all the above are helpful to some readers, and that the documentation provided can serve as a help in understanding the terminology given by the various authors on this subject?

I find that each author has something to provide for those seeking to understand whether clairvoyance and higher dimensions exist. But I will prefer Blavatsky's terminology and outline more than the other authors. And I think I have shown why in the above.

Do you perfer Blavatsky's terminology or do you prefer the other authors terminology or - simply all of them?

Any comments? 




M. Sufilight


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Daniel 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 5:40 PM
  Subject: theos-talk Life After death, Psychism and the Spiritual Path


    
  In various ways the teachings on psychism and life after death
  as found in the writings of H. P. Blavatsky and the Mahatmas
  are some of the least understood of H.P.B.'s teachings. All sorts 
  of confusion and misunderstandings especially by
  later Theosophical writers have clouded the subject.

  See the following material in the links below for recommended reading:

  http://blavatskyarchives.com/blavatskypsychicetc.htm

  http://blavatskyarchives.com/constitutionofahumanbeing.htm

  http://blavatskyarchives.com/mon/WhenWeDieA.gif

  http://blavatskyarchives.com/psychicversusinitiate.htm

  http://blavatskyarchives.com/blavatskyhume1881.htm

  http://blavatskyarchives.com/deathml.htm

  http://blavatskyarchives.com/mon/monwwdie.htm

  http://blavatskyarchives.com/mon/WhenWeDieB.gif

  http://blavatskyarchives.com/morganafterdeath.htm

  http://blavatskyarchives.com/reincarnationstevenson.htm

  http://blavatskyarchives.com/voiceselectedextracts.htm

  http://blavatskyarchives.com/voiceconcentrate.htm

  Daniel
  Blavatsky Study Center
  http://hpb.cc

  http://blavatskyarchives.com/articleshpbtheosophy.htm#Psychism



  

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