Re: theos-talk --- Subtle Psychology - Arya Samaj and The TS-6
Aug 17, 2012 11:07 PM
by M. Sufilight
Dear friends
My views are:
I thank you for your words again.
I have however failed to see any answer form you since July 6th. I might however have overlooked something.
Or maybe work has kept you away form the forum for a while.
If other readers would like to contribute to the questions I forwarded in the earlier post/mail in this thread, I will not hesitate to welcome them.
_________________
I repeat some of the words here:
_________________
I ask I the following conclusion true???
The conclusion about the Theosophical Society is that it welcomes all kinds a persons regardless of belief, if they at least seek to promote altruism. And nobody is being pressured to follow any dogma or religious system within the TS.
Nobody!?
However on the other hand it seems that one in fact are being pressurized to follow Orthodox Theosophy!
How can this be reconciled I wonder....?
M. Sufilight
----- Original Message -----
From: Ramanujachary nallanchakravarti
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: theos-talk --- Subtle Psychology - Arya Samaj and The TS-6
Dear Mr Sufilight,
Please let the total story be given out. Wait and see.
we will discuss the whole matter.
Fraternally, Dr N C R .
Literature is for Portrayal of Philosophic Ideas.
Dr N C Ramanujachary(Srivirinchi)
Besant Gardens, The Theosophical Society, Adyar, Chennai 600 020
Phone: 044/24913584, Mobile: 9444963584
From: "M. Sufilight" <global-theosophy@PzcT_W2OlD6ISALzZpSXTEUiZctbj4yRMMOGcCPEuTOml8zMXJDQYn6a6pYy72btLb8RyhFg9fuRsRgt_BLNRtIyxBbO.yahoo.invalid>
Sent: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 11:33:07
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: theos-talk --- Subtle Psychology - Arya Samaj and The TS-6
Dear friends
My views are:
Interesting words about Arya Samaj (AS)...
I ask I the following conclusion true???
The conclusion about the Theosophical Society is that it welcomes all kinds a persons regardless of belief, if they at least seek to promote altruism. And nobody is being pressured to follow any dogma or religious system within the TS.
Nobody!?
However on the other hand it seems that one in fact are being pressurized to follow Orthodox Theosophy!
How can this be reconciled I wonder....?
____________________________________
Some extra additional words to use in contrast with the hey-day of the 1920'ties of the Theosophical Society.......and even to be used today....so to promote altruism.
The german break-away theosophist Rudolf Steiner said really interestingly the following about the TS:
ROMAN CATHOLICISM
Dornach, June 6, 1920
"Why am I telling you these things, my dear friends? So that you may not take the matter too lightly. For in our anthroposophical spiritual science it is verily not a question of the sort of things which go on, for instance in the Theosophical Society. That the Theosophical Society is not to be taken seriously is clearly to be seen from the fact that one day it came to accept by a majority the whole farce of Krishnamurti as the reborn Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Such a comedy is only based on hypocrisy, even though this hypocrisy be taken seriously by many. But what should grow on the soil of Anthroposophy, of spiritual science, should be a search for truth, sincere through and through. It is therefore something which, as the Catholic Church is well aware, penetrates behind the scenes, to what must not be discovered if that church is to maintain the dominion in the world to which she lays claim."
http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/RomCathol/19200606p01.html
Rudolf Steiner himself - can, however, without much doubt be said to have ended with doing the same - replacing J. Krishnamurti's name with his own. The big central difference, as I see it, being that the Constitution of the Athroposophical Society was Sectarian biased in its content and directly turned R. Steiner into THE Guru among Guru's. Just read the present day Constitution of the Athroposophical Society:
The Statutes of the Anthoposophical Society
http://www.goetheanum.org/The-Statutes.256.0.html?&L=1
Principles of the Anthroposophical Society
http://www.goetheanum.org/Principles.255.0.html?&L=1
The End of the Farces:
How to end tha Farce or Farces?
Now I claim that to end this farce or these farces - one will have to realise that in these decades and years of 1878 to 1934 (for instance - or perhaps even the years 1875-2012) the Science of Psychology was in its infancy in the Western countries and in many other illitterate countries as well.
AND, - one will then, after that, have to realise that the Psychological Science - known as the Science on Subtle Mind Control - is central to the problems which has occurred in the past decades of the existence of the Theosophical Society.
Is this not true and very central even today year 2012....?
Science is not belief.
THE SCIENCE ON SUBTLE MIND CONTROL
"A short definition of the science on Subtle Mind Control.
The science on Subtle Mind Control is shortly formulated the science on the
aspect of the use of Subtle Mind Control in religious organisations, and other
organisations by a leader or a group of leaders, and its damaging results and
how to avoid them. The science on Subtle Mind Control is about when Subtle Mind
Control is used by a leader or a group of leaders in organisations, especially
here a religious organisations on behalf of members in such an organisation. And
with regard to religious organisations when such a leader or leaders use it
while they in more or less subtle manner install fear, phobia or phobias,
psychological blockages or condition various members of their organisation
through the promotion of a religious doctrine. The science on Subtle Mind
Control is also called Coercive Persuasion, Thought Reform, and other names or
terms. The last two terms can also be used when one like to expand the
definition to cover the science about Brain-Washing and the use of violence, not
only with regard to religious organisations but all kinds of interactions
between human beings and life. This is the central formulation and definition of
the science on Subtle Mind Control, although there are other aspects to it. Here
my focus is on the religious organisations and New Age organisations and groups.
More detailed info follows later in the below." (From Part 2)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/57015 (Part 1)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/57019 (Part 2)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/57020 (Part 3)
____________________
Sometimes I wonder what the MAIN key obstacle to Christianity is?
And is this MAIN key obstacle to Christianity - the MAIN Karmic problem on this planet? If so, the it must be very important!
Is it the authoritarian use of Christian Dogma and what I call "Subtle Mind Control" ?
(See for instance books by Steve Hassan, William Sargant, Kurt Lewin anf even Maragareth Singer and of course others)
Or is it the fact that people - as in many kinds of religions - simply - perhaps often out of fear and ignorance - do what the poster by Fox Mulder in the X-Files so very much distinguish it self with: "I WANT TO BELIEVE!" (In contrast to I WANT TO KNOW!)
Here we have to poster I Want to believe - A central symbol on the X-Files series and in fact a Symbol on all the UFO-hullabaloo and noice:
http://whisper.net-genie.co.uk/siteimage/scale/0/0/28994.gif
Or is it simply a lack of a philosophical mind - or - just psychological problems?
M. Sufilight
----- Original Message -----
From: Ramanujachary nallanchakravarti
To: Theos-talk
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 6:38 AM
Subject: theos-talk Arya Samaj and The TS-6
Arya Samaj -6It is a
misconception that we accept as members Muslims, Jains and others who have not
yet got rid of hatred and contempt. We
never accepted those who do not clearly declare that they will allow all men to
worship according to their convictions and will treat them as brothers just as
they do their co-religionists. It is true that very few Muslims and Christians
have joined the TS, just as few people have joined the AS.
My personal
religious or, as you may say, irreligious views have nothing to do with the TS,
for I never ask anyone to accept my views. As I have said above, our Society is
neither a religious or a communal body.
We have proved
our devotion to you by affiliating the branches of our society to the AS and
made you the Supreme Head of it. The AS has done nothing in return, but you now
openly preach against the TS and say it is a hostile body, which it is not. I
fully believe that I have answered all your objections and express my sincere
desire that friendly relations may subsist between you and us.
If you so desire
we will, beginning with this year, remove your name from our papers and rules
as the Supreme Head of the TS of the As, and notify to our friends in England
and America that you do not wish to remain such Supreme Head. But I shall not
do that till you tell this to me in writing.
Swamiji made a reply to this
letter in his one dated 17 March 1881 wherein he says:
If you have not
changed your opinion, then you must have concealed it. I know it as a fact that
when you talked to Mulji Thakersay, you did believe in God, but you did in Meerut shows that the fact
is quite the contrary.
The AS believes
in the Vedas. There is no change in its aims. Brotherhood, which is your chief
ideal, can not be achieved in practice, so long as religious prejudice and
hatred do not completely disappear.
The object of
the diploma was only that the TS wished to become a branch of AS. As that thing is no longer so, what is the
use of talking about it? Moreover, I
simply acknowledged receipt of the diploma but I did not accept your
membership.
I do not wish to
found a new religion. I only preach the eternal Vedic Faith. -- I do not care
for any position except that of a preacher. You mention me sometimes as a
member, sometimes as something else. I do not want any credit or praise. What I
want is itself is a great thing and I hope my work may be successful by God's
grace.
" One of the Hindu
Founders of the Parent Theosophical Society " in his observations on the
contradictions found in the articles published in The Arya, Pandit Dayanand's
organ in April and May 1882, comments thus, after bringing out the
inconsistencies made therein:
This very same
Wisdom-Religion, and none other, they (TS) are professing now, in 1882.
Certainly the friends of the TS are indebted to the Swami for proving by the
publication of the President-Founder's and other letters to him of the year
1878, how identical are the Founders' views at that period with those they are
confessing today. And, if one chose to go back even of the Society's
foundation, the exposition of the Esoteric Doctrine, or "Wisdom-Religion"
of antiquity, which is made in Isis
Unveiled -began prior to that foundation- will be found to differ, in no
substantial respect, from the exposition that Colonel Olcott has made in all
his addresses throughout the annual tour from which he has not yet returned to
head-quarters. When it is PROVED to them
that (a) Swami Dayanad Saraswati's
interpretations of the Vedas contain that very "Wisdom-Religion"; (b)
that from the time of his publication of his first work on the religion of the
Vedas, and his exegesis of its secret meanings, he has never contradicted
himself upon any point; and (c) that from the first pages of his Sathyartha Prakasika - his Yajurveda Bhashya, &amp;c., down to the
last page of the latest issue of his Veda
Bhashya - he teaches an identical
doctrine, then will it be time to expect the Theosophists, to be his disciples
- as upon original misconceptions they were ready to be - and accept their
teachings from no other "Maha Muni." --- During the last year(1881) from April to December, Colonel Olcott was
at Ceylon, and therefore, could not have been at Meerut. It was in September
1880, - more than 20 months ago - that the Pandit Dayanand Saraswati was told
plainly the truth (as he had been told before, and even written to, from America,
when the Society had at last learnt what kind of God was the Iswar preached by him) - to wit; that
the Founders neither then believed, nor ever had believed, in a personal God. the Swami, though himself denying most
emphatically his belief in a personal deity, (the witnesses of the Founders are
two English theosophists who talked with him at Benares),
nevertheless endows his "Iswar" with all the finite attributes of the
Jewish Jehovah. But why should the
learned Swami have waited for over twenty
months before protesting?- - - The Founders - as the whole public have
known for seven years - firmly believe in Karma,
which is but another name for that mysterious law of Absolute Justice which
punishes sin and rewards virtue. But
they refuse belief in a personal God,
whose sole occupation seems to be to keep himself 'happy' and 'joyous'. With
"Karma" as an active principle, and the term 'evolution' instead of
'creation' used, the "Eternal Divine Essence," which Colonel Olcott
speaks of, in his letter of June 5, 1878, when he commits the error of
mistaking Swamiji's "Iswar" - as depicted to him by Swami's followers
- for that "Essence" or PARABRAHM - becomes necessarily an impersonal Deity. The Founders maintain that they do believe in the very Divine PRINCIPLE
taught in the Vedas; in that Principle
which is described at the outset in the Rigveda Samhita - which is
"neither entity nor non-entity," but an ABSTRACT ENTITY, which is no
entity, liable to be described by either words or attributes. And as they entirely fail to recognize this
eternal, All-Pervading Principle in the "Iswar" of the arya Samajists
- they run away from it. The Swami knew their profession of faith since January
1878. Again, I ask, why did he wait to
protest for over three years, and never said anything at that time?----
I assert that
the PARABRAHM of the Vedanthins and the "Adi_Buddha" of the northern
Buddhists are identical. Both are Abstract Principles, or non-entities;
Makita and Nirvana being their immutable states; hence the re-absorption of the
human spark of Parabrahm or
Adi-Buddha - called the vulgar "soul" - into the Parent Flame whence
it proceeded - an end so eagerly sought for, under the synonymous terms of
"Moksha" and "Nirvana".- --- I close. The various and many accusations
against the Founders contained in the Arya will be contradicted officially, and upon documentary
evidence, and proven utterly false, in the July number of this journal, should
the President-Founder reach Bombay
in time. Otherwise in the following number."
Literature is for Portrayal of Philosophic Ideas.
Dr N C Ramanujachary(Srivirinchi)
Besant Gardens, The Theosophical Society, Adyar, Chennai 600 020
Phone: 044/24913584, Mobile: 9444963584
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