Theos-Talk Archives (July 2012 Message tt00018)

Dear friends

My views are:

Interesting words about Arya Samaj (AS)...

I ask I the following conclusion true???

The conclusion about the Theosophical Society is that it welcomes all kinds a persons regardless of belief, if they at least seek to promote altruism. And nobody is being pressured to follow any dogma or religious system within the TS. 
Nobody!?

However on the other hand it seems that one in fact are being pressurized to follow Orthodox Theosophy!

How can this be reconciled I wonder....?



____________________________________

Some extra additional words to use in contrast with the hey-day of the 1920'ties of the Theosophical Society.......and even to be used today....so to promote altruism.


The german break-away theosophist Rudolf Steiner said really interestingly the following about the TS:

ROMAN CATHOLICISM
Dornach, June 6, 1920
"Why am I telling you these things, my dear friends? So that you may not take the matter too lightly. For in our anthroposophical spiritual science it is verily not a question of the sort of things which go on, for instance in the Theosophical Society. That the Theosophical Society is not to be taken seriously is clearly to be seen from the fact that one day it came to accept by a majority the whole farce of Krishnamurti as the reborn Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Such a comedy is only based on hypocrisy, even though this hypocrisy be taken seriously by many. But what should grow on the soil of Anthroposophy, of spiritual science, should be a search for truth, sincere through and through. It is therefore something which, as the Catholic Church is well aware, penetrates behind the scenes, to what must not be discovered if that church is to maintain the dominion in the world to which she lays claim."
http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/RomCathol/19200606p01.html

Rudolf Steiner himself - can, however, without much doubt be said to have ended with doing the same - replacing J. Krishnamurti's name with his own. The big central difference, as I see it, being that the Constitution of the Athroposophical Society was Sectarian biased in its content and directly turned R. Steiner into THE Guru among Guru's. Just read the present day Constitution of the Athroposophical Society:

The Statutes of the Anthoposophical Society
http://www.goetheanum.org/The-Statutes.256.0.html?&L=1
Principles of the Anthroposophical Society 
http://www.goetheanum.org/Principles.255.0.html?&L=1



The End of the Farces:
How to end tha Farce or Farces?
Now I claim that to end this farce or these farces - one will have to realise that in these decades and years of 1878 to 1934 (for instance - or perhaps even the years 1875-2012)  the Science of Psychology was in its infancy in the Western countries and in many other illitterate countries as well.
AND, - one will then, after that, have to realise that the Psychological Science - known as the Science on Subtle Mind Control - is central to the problems which has occurred in the past decades of the existence of the Theosophical Society. 
Is this not true and very central even today year 2012....?

Science is not belief.


THE SCIENCE ON SUBTLE MIND CONTROL 
"A short definition of the science on Subtle Mind Control.
The science on Subtle Mind Control is shortly formulated the science on the
aspect of the use of Subtle Mind Control in religious organisations, and other
organisations by a leader or a group of leaders, and its damaging results and
how to avoid them. The science on Subtle Mind Control is about when Subtle Mind
Control is used by a leader or a group of leaders in organisations, especially
here a religious organisations on behalf of members in such an organisation. And
with regard to religious organisations when such a leader or leaders use it
while they in more or less subtle manner install fear, phobia or phobias,
psychological blockages or condition various members of their organisation
through the promotion of a religious doctrine. The science on Subtle Mind
Control is also called Coercive Persuasion, Thought Reform, and other names or
terms. The last two terms can also be used when one like to expand the
definition to cover the science about Brain-Washing and the use of violence, not
only with regard to religious organisations but all kinds of interactions
between human beings and life. This is the central formulation and definition of
the science on Subtle Mind Control, although there are other aspects to it. Here
my focus is on the religious organisations and New Age organisations and groups.

More detailed info follows later in the below." (From Part 2)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/57015 (Part 1)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/57019 (Part  2)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/57020 (Part  3)


____________________


Sometimes I wonder what the MAIN key obstacle to Christianity is?
And is this MAIN key obstacle to Christianity - the MAIN Karmic problem on this planet? If so, the it must be very important!


Is it the authoritarian use of Christian Dogma and what I call "Subtle Mind Control" ?
(See for instance books by Steve Hassan, William Sargant, Kurt Lewin anf even Maragareth Singer and of course others) 

Or is it the fact that people - as in many kinds of religions - simply - perhaps often out of fear and ignorance - do what the poster by Fox Mulder in the X-Files so very much distinguish  it self with: "I WANT TO BELIEVE!" (In contrast to I WANT TO KNOW!)
 
Here we have to poster I Want to believe - A central symbol on the X-Files series and in fact a Symbol on all the UFO-hullabaloo and noice:
http://whisper.net-genie.co.uk/siteimage/scale/0/0/28994.gif
 
 
Or is it simply a lack of a philosophical mind - or - just psychological problems?



M. Sufilight


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Ramanujachary nallanchakravarti 
  To: Theos-talk 
  Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 6:38 AM
  Subject: theos-talk Arya Samaj and The TS-6


    


  Arya Samaj -6It is a
  misconception that we accept as members Muslims, Jains and others who have not
  yet got rid of hatred and contempt. We
  never accepted those who do not clearly declare that they will allow all men to
  worship according to their convictions and will treat them as brothers just as
  they do their co-religionists. It is true that very few Muslims and Christians
  have joined the TS, just as few people have joined the AS.

  My personal
  religious or, as you may say, irreligious views have nothing to do with the TS,
  for I never ask anyone to accept my views. As I have said above, our Society is
  neither a religious or a communal body.

  We have proved
  our devotion to you by affiliating the branches of our society to the AS and
  made you the Supreme Head of it. The AS has done nothing in return, but you now
  openly preach against the TS and say it is a hostile body, which it is not. I
  fully believe that I have answered all your objections and express my sincere
  desire that friendly relations may subsist between you and us. 

  If you so desire
  we will, beginning with this year, remove your name from our papers and rules
  as the Supreme Head of the TS of the As, and notify to our friends in England
  and America that you do not wish to remain such Supreme Head. But I shall not
  do that till you tell this to me in writing.

  Swamiji made a reply to this
  letter in his one dated 17 March 1881 wherein he says:

  If you have not
  changed your opinion, then you must have concealed it. I know it as a fact that
  when you talked to Mulji Thakersay, you did believe in God, but you did in Meerut shows that the fact
  is quite the contrary. 

  The AS believes
  in the Vedas. There is no change in its aims. Brotherhood, which is your chief
  ideal, can not be achieved in practice, so long as religious prejudice and
  hatred do not completely disappear.

  The object of
  the diploma was only that the TS wished to become a branch of AS. As that thing is no longer so, what is the
  use of talking about it? Moreover, I
  simply acknowledged receipt of the diploma but I did not accept your
  membership.

  I do not wish to
  found a new religion. I only preach the eternal Vedic Faith. -- I do not care
  for any position except that of a preacher. You mention me sometimes as a
  member, sometimes as something else. I do not want any credit or praise. What I
  want is itself is a great thing and I hope my work may be successful by God's
  grace.

  " One of the Hindu
  Founders of the Parent Theosophical Society " in his observations on the
  contradictions found in the articles published in The Arya, Pandit Dayanand's
  organ in April and May 1882, comments thus, after bringing out the
  inconsistencies made therein:

  This very same
  Wisdom-Religion, and none other, they (TS) are professing now, in 1882.
  Certainly the friends of the TS are indebted to the Swami for proving by the
  publication of the President-Founder's and other letters to him of the year
  1878, how identical are the Founders' views at that period with those they are
  confessing today. And, if one chose to go back even of the Society's
  foundation, the exposition of the Esoteric Doctrine, or "Wisdom-Religion"
  of antiquity, which is made in Isis
  Unveiled -began prior to that foundation- will be found to differ, in no
  substantial respect, from the exposition that Colonel Olcott has made in all
  his addresses throughout the annual tour from which he has not yet returned to
  head-quarters. When it is PROVED to them
  that (a) Swami Dayanad Saraswati's
  interpretations of the Vedas contain that very "Wisdom-Religion"; (b)
  that from the time of his publication of his first work on the religion of the
  Vedas, and his exegesis of its secret meanings, he has never contradicted
  himself upon any point; and (c) that from the first pages of his Sathyartha Prakasika - his Yajurveda Bhashya, &c., down to the
  last page of the latest issue of his Veda
  Bhashya - he teaches an identical
  doctrine, then will it be time to expect the Theosophists, to be his disciples
  - as upon original misconceptions they were ready to be - and accept their
  teachings from no other "Maha Muni." --- During the last year(1881) from April to December, Colonel Olcott was
  at Ceylon, and therefore, could not have been at Meerut. It was in September
  1880, - more than 20 months ago - that the Pandit Dayanand Saraswati was told
  plainly the truth (as he had been told before, and even written to, from America,
  when the Society had at last learnt what kind of God was the Iswar preached by him) - to wit; that
  the Founders neither then believed, nor ever had believed, in a personal God. the Swami, though himself denying most
  emphatically his belief in a personal deity, (the witnesses of the Founders are
  two English theosophists who talked with him at Benares),
  nevertheless endows his "Iswar" with all the finite attributes of the
  Jewish Jehovah. But why should the
  learned Swami have waited for over twenty
  months before protesting?- - - The Founders - as the whole public have
  known for seven years - firmly believe in Karma,
  which is but another name for that mysterious law of Absolute Justice which
  punishes sin and rewards virtue. But
  they refuse belief in a personal God,
  whose sole occupation seems to be to keep himself 'happy' and 'joyous'. With
  "Karma" as an active principle, and the term 'evolution' instead of
  'creation' used, the "Eternal Divine Essence," which Colonel Olcott
  speaks of, in his letter of June 5, 1878, when he commits the error of
  mistaking Swamiji's "Iswar" - as depicted to him by Swami's followers
  - for that "Essence" or PARABRAHM - becomes necessarily an impersonal Deity. The Founders maintain that they do believe in the very Divine PRINCIPLE
  taught in the Vedas; in that Principle
  which is described at the outset in the Rigveda Samhita - which is
  "neither entity nor non-entity," but an ABSTRACT ENTITY, which is no
  entity, liable to be described by either words or attributes. And as they entirely fail to recognize this
  eternal, All-Pervading Principle in the "Iswar" of the arya Samajists
  - they run away from it. The Swami knew their profession of faith since January
  1878. Again, I ask, why did he wait to
  protest for over three years, and never said anything at that time?---- 

  I assert that
  the PARABRAHM of the Vedanthins and the "Adi_Buddha" of the northern
  Buddhists are identical. Both are Abstract Principles, or non-entities;
  Makita and Nirvana being their immutable states; hence the re-absorption of the
  human spark of Parabrahm or
  Adi-Buddha - called the vulgar "soul" - into the Parent Flame whence
  it proceeded - an end so eagerly sought for, under the synonymous terms of
  "Moksha" and "Nirvana".- --- I close. The various and many accusations
  against the Founders contained in the Arya will be contradicted officially, and upon documentary
  evidence, and proven utterly false, in the July number of this journal, should
  the President-Founder reach Bombay
  in time. Otherwise in the following number."

  Literature is for Portrayal of Philosophic Ideas.

  Dr N C Ramanujachary(Srivirinchi)

  Besant Gardens, The Theosophical Society, Adyar, Chennai 600 020 

  Phone: 044/24913584, Mobile: 9444963584

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