Theos-Talk Archives (May 2012 Message tt00132)

Mahatma Leadbeater group meets here 24/7
https://www.facebook.com/groups/BesantAndLeadbeater/

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva <silva_cass@...> wrote:
>
> Oh yes they did
> Break with the past
> Over the next few years, Krishnamurti's new vision and consciousness continued to develop. New concepts appeared in his talks, discussions, and correspondence, together with an evolving vocabulary that was progressively free of Theosophical terminology.[61]Â His new direction reached a climax in 1929, when he rebuffed attempts by Leadbeater and Besant to continue with the Order of the Star.
> Krishnamurti dissolved the Order during the annual Star Camp at Ommen, the Netherlands, on 3 August 1929.[62] He stated that he had made his decision after "careful consideration" during the previous two years, and that:
> I maintain that truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect. That is my point of view, and I adhere to that absolutely and unconditionally. Truth, being limitless, unconditioned, unapproachable by any path whatsoever, cannot be organized; nor should any organization be formed to lead or coerce people along a particular path. ... This is no magnificent deed, because I do not want followers, and I mean this. The moment you follow someone you cease to follow Truth. I am not concerned whether you pay attention to what I say or not. I want to do a certain thing in the world and I am going to do it with unwavering concentration. I am concerning myself with only one essential thing: to set man free. I desire to free him from all cages, from all fears, and not to found religions, new sects, nor to establish new theories and new philosophies.[63]
> Following the dissolution prominent Theosophists turned against Krishnamurti, including Leadbeater who is said to have stated, "the Coming had gone wrong."[64][65] Krishnamurti had denounced all organized belief, the notion of gurus, and the whole teacher-follower relationship, vowing instead to work in setting people "absolutely, unconditionally free."[63] There is no record of him explicitly denying he was the World Teacher;[66] whenever he was asked to clarify his position, he either asserted that the matter was irrelevant,[67] or gave answers that, as he stated, were "purposely vague."[68]
> In reflection of the ongoing changes in his outlook, he had started doing so before the dissolution of the Order of the Star.[69]Â The subtlety of the new distinctions on the World Teacher issue was lost on many of his admirers, who were already bewildered or distraught because of the changes in Krishnamurtiâ??s outlook, vocabulary and pronouncementsâ?"among them Besant and Mary Lutyens' mother Emily, who had a very close relationship with him.[70][71]Â He soon disassociated himself from the Theosophical Society and its teachings and practices,[72]Â yet he remained on cordial terms with some of its members and ex-members throughout his life.[citation needed]
> Krishnamurti would often refer to the totality of his work as the teachings and not as my teachings.[73] His concern was always about "the teachings"; the teacher had no importance, and all authority, especially psychological authority, was denounced:
> All authority of any kind, especially in the field of thought and understanding, is the most destructive, evil thing. Leaders destroy the followers and followers destroy the leaders. You have to be your own teacher and your own disciple. You have to question everything that man has accepted as valuable, as necessary.[74]
> Krishnamurti resigned from the various trusts and other organizations that were affiliated with the defunct Order of the Star, including the Theosophical Society. He returned the monies and properties donated to the Order, among them a castle in the Netherlands and 5,000 acres (20Â km2) of land, to their donors.[75][76]Â He spent the rest of his life holding dialogues and giving public talks around the world on the nature of belief, truth, sorrow, freedom, death, and the quest for a spiritually fulfilled life. He accepted neither followers nor worshippers, regarding the relationship between disciple and guru as encouraging dependency and exploitation. He accepted gifts and financial support freely offered to him by people inspired by his work, and continued with lecture tours and the publication of books and talk transcripts for more than half a century.[77]Â He constantly urged people to think independently, and he invited them to explore and discuss
>  specific topics together with him.[78][79]
> [edit]
> 
> Krishnamurti was born into a Telugu Brahmin family in what was then colonial India. In early adolescence, he had a chance encounter with prominent occultist and high-ranking theosophist Charles Webster Leadbeater in the grounds of the Theosophical Society headquarters at Adyar in Madras (now Chennai). He was subsequently raised under the tutelage of Annie Besant and Leadbeater, leaders of the Society at the time, who believed him to be a "vehicle" for an expected World Teacher. As a young man, he disavowed this idea and dissolved the worldwide organization (the Order of the Star) established to support it. He claimed allegiance to no nationality, caste, religion, or philosophy, and spent the rest of his life traveling the world, speaking to large and small groups and individuals. He authored many books, among them The First and Last Freedom, The Only Revolution, and Krishnamurti's Notebook. Many of his talks and discussions have been
>  published. His last public talk was in Madras, India, in January 1986, a month before his death at his home in Ojai, California.
> His supporters, working through non-profit foundations in India, Great Britain and the United States, oversee several independent schools based on his views on education. They continue to transcribe and distribute his thousands of talks, group and individual discussions, and writings by use of a variety of media formats and languages.
> Contents  [hide] 
> 	* 1Â Biography
> 	* 1.1Â Family background and childhood
> 	* 1.2Â Discovered
> 	* 1.3Â Growing up
> 	* 1.4Â Life-altering experiences
> 	* 1.5Â Break with the past
> 	* 1.6Â Middle years
> 	* 1.7Â Later years
> 	* 2Â Recurrent themes
> 	* 2.1Â Knowledge
> 	* 2.2Â Fear and pleasure
> 	* 2.3Â Meditation
> 	* 2.4Â Education
> 	* 2.5Â World crisis
> 	* 3Â Influence
> 	* 4Â Criticism
> 	* 5Â See also
> 	* 6Â References
> 	* 7Â External links
> 	*  
> 
> >________________________________
> > From: Anand Gholap <AnandGholap@...>
> >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
> >Sent: Thursday, 17 May 2012 1:26 AM
> >Subject: Re: theos-talk Writings of Mahatma Annie Besant and Mahatma C.W. Leadbeater
> > 
> >
> >Â  
> >They didn't fail with Krishnamurti.
> >
> >--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva <silva_cass@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Mahatma Leadbeater,Mahatma Besant? � Are you serious? � The reason they backed each other up was because they were in cahoots together to introduce a Messiah and liberal christianity into theosophy. � If they were so accurate why did they fail with Krishnamurti. � My thinking is that by the time he was an adult, he figured out they were frauds.
> >> Cass
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> >________________________________
> >> > From: Anand Gholap <AnandGholap@>
> >> >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
> >> >Sent: Wednesday, 16 May 2012 2:51 AM
> >> >Subject: theos-talk Writings of Mahatma Annie Besant and Mahatma C.W. Leadbeater
> >> > 
> >> >
> >> >�  
> >> >Mahatma CWL and Mahatma AB wrote independently hundreds of books and articles
> >> >and gave many speeches spontaneously. How is it that whatever Mahatma Besant
> >> >said or wrote independently was quite consistent with what Mahatma Leadbeater
> >> >wrote and vice versa? There are almost no contradictions between their writings.
> >> >This is a miracle. Were they checking each other's thoughts on certain topic
> >> >before writing or speaking? Their marvelous consistency without contradictions
> >> >is miraculous. Compare this with Blavatsky, who contradicts with her own
> >> >writing.
> >> >Best wishes.
> >> >Anand Gholap
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > 
> >> >
> >> >
> >> 
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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