Theos-Talk Archives (April 2012 Message tt00114)

.



Wikipedia says :
Sectarianism -   is bigotry, discrimination or hatred arising from attaching importance to perceived differences between subdivisions within a group.

As a new UK, TS member for only the last two years, the communications and events of which I have been fortunate enough to witness, have shown no signs of the above.   Of course my experience is very limited and my experience remains dominated by my sub-conscious attitude that TS remains a good intellectual opportunity to those motivated by truly altruistic intentions, for them to develop their inner self and evolve spiritually.

  
A Mystic knows and lives as example :-
This eternal human opportunity can-not exist in any collective form.  Human Freedom - Emancipation is as always firstly for the individual and then culminates in the reunification of the illusion of self, with the reality of the whole. Advaita.
  
Basically ? TS is trying to show all who enquire, that things like   -   Sectarianism  -  are the instruments of human social oppression.

To say that  TS  is Sectarianism is to accuse TS of corruption toward its fundamental purpose.
  
Are you suggesting that in your opinion TS is corrupt ???  
Remember - bigotry, discrimination or hatred


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--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight" <global-theosophy@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Marcus
> 
> My views are:
> 
> I think you misunderstand me...
> 
> I was referring to the Constituion and Rules for the Theosophical Society written on a piece of paper.
> Let me rephrase my question:
> If it is so as you claim, why is the Constituion and Rules for the Theosophical Society - written on a piece of paper - still important to the administtration and the members of it?
> 
> The question you gave an answer to by quoting Krishnamurti was:
> Is sectarianism in all respects not to be avoided?
> 
> And since unity is strength - I therefore conclude, that a solitude path only can be a half solution.
> 
> ___
> See my post to Ramanujachary in the above. That might explain my question a bit better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M. Sufilight
> 
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: marcus_oxo 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 4:54 PM
>   Subject: Re: theos-talk History
> 
> 
>     
>   .
> 
>   We exist because of the laws of nature and science. 
> 
>   Our constitution is to live and learn the lessons then surrender to this universal Architecture. TS and its fixtures are no different. The framework is there to enable some more then the frame. You and I see light through darkness. Feel love for this day. 
> 
>   These constitutions, of TS and this eternal moment are the enablers for real truth, love, wisdom and beauty.
> 
>   .
> 
>   --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight" <global-theosophy@> wrote:
>   >
>   > Dear Marcus
>   > 
>   > My views are:
>   > 
>   > May I ask a question:
>   > If it is so as you claim, why is the Constituion and Rules for the Theosophical Society still important to the administtration and the members of it?
>   > 
>   > 
>   > ________
>   > 
>   > Marcus quoted:
>   > "There is no psychological evolution."
>   > 
>   > M. Sufilight says:
>   > Perhaps. But there are certainly a Psychological change.
>   > 
>   > 
>   > 
>   > M. Sufilight
>   > 
>   > 
>   > ----- Original Message ----- 
>   > From: marcus_oxo 
>   > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
>   > Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 3:48 PM
>   > Subject: Re: theos-talk History
>   > 
>   > 
>   > 
>   > .
>   > 
>   > A TS members opion is :
>   > 
>   > TS can-not be a history lesson. It exists to help others in the now, those who search for the truth. If anyone asks for the light, there should always be good and honest people and groups to offer real help.
>   > 
>   > TS is one of the many groups that must help those who ask for light.
>   > 
>   > . JEDI Krishnamurti ---- said, 
>   > 
>   > Freedom is not a reaction; freedom is not a choice. It is man's pretence that because he has choice he is free. Freedom is pure observation without direction, without fear of punishment and reward. Freedom is without motive; freedom is not at the end of the evolution of man but lies in the first step of his existence. In observation one begins to discover the lack of freedom. Freedom is found in the choiceless awareness of our daily existence and activity. Thought is time. Thought is born of experience and knowledge which are inseparable from time and the past. Time is the psychological enemy of man. Our action is based on knowledge and therefore time, so man is always a slave to the past. Thought is ever-limited and so we live
>   > in constant conflict and struggle. There is no psychological evolution.
>   > 
>   > .
>   > 
>   > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight" <global-theosophy@> wrote:
>   > >
>   > > Dear Cass 
>   > > 
>   > > I will be polite and kind-hearted and seek to answer you so to help you and others out...
>   > > 
>   > > Try to disreagard the quote from the Christian Bible, it was a hopeless, yet well meant example.
>   > > 
>   > > I asked some questions - and nobody provided any answers. It seems that the fingers (and even the hands) still are firmly planted in the ears of the readers with regard to the questions I forwarded at the beginning of this thread.
>   > > .
>   > > ____________
>   > > 
>   > > Here are the unanswered questions:
>   > > Let me ask in the name of Altruism:
>   > > Are there at all any readers who have a view about the below...I have offered?
>   > > Is sectarianism in all respects not to be avoided?
>   > > 
>   > > 
>   > > ""Living Theosophy" was, as i understand it, never in the early TS days, to be made somthing that one leader or a minor group of leaders (handpicked "Eminent" Theosophists - so-called, picked by a biased hand) indoctrinated anyone into as a belief, (wÃf­th a heavy down-watering of the spirit of science and philosophy), because that is in opposition to altruism. The Law of Karma and Reincarnation was never made an article of Faith within the Theosophical Scoiety in its early days. So why should it happen in our time, year 2012, when the science (not belief) of psychology has made such great advances since 1875? Or rather why is it - outwardly semingly - that which is happening in not a few Theosophical Orgnizations? Is it altruism to promote the atmosphere of a sect - and not the opposite - non-sectarian altruism?
>   > > Practical altruism - promoted with one author promotions or one - biased (depending on the TS or related branch) - set of doctrines promotions (more than one author) - can never be altruism, per se. It is the open and free search, that is leading to altruism in these days of ours. For instance not ufo allergic reactions or a lack of self-criticism - called the apex of altruism.
>   > > 
>   > > And yes:
>   > > What is the Action Plan?
>   > > 
>   > > To do a much much better effort in avoiding giving the Planet and Humanity the impression that the original Theosophical Society was a sectarian one - because that is a lie. Much more effort is required as far as I am concerned. If this effort succeeds, then we will have accomplished somthing. When this effort and lack of recognition continue to fail in succeding among the present day theosophical or related theosophical organizations - the whole idea of a universal Brotherhood of Humanity will fail in proportion with it, - more or less."
>   > > 
>   > > _______
>   > > Altruism is defined as selfless service for others. And the word "compassion" might be used as well in stead of it.
>   > > 
>   > > All the above are of course just my views. I present them from my heart seeking to promote altruism.
>   > > I will gladly change them if someone are able to prove them wrong.
>   > > 
>   > > 
>   > > 
>   > > M. Suflight
>   > > 
>   > > 
>   > > ________
>   > > As the proverb goes from the book "The Initiate in the New World" by Cyril Scott, p. 55:
>   > > "Deaf people cannot hear loud noises"
>   > > ââ,¬Å"Our Theosophical friends are deaf,ââ,¬Â? he explained, ââ,¬Å"because
>   > > although they can hear the sot whispers from the astral planes, they cannot hear the
>   > > loud voice of Reason telling them that intolerance can never be compatible with the
>   > > spirit of Brotherhood.ââ,¬Â?
>   > > 
>   > > That is sectarian intolerance compared to the original non-sectarian tolerance.
>   > > 
>   > > 
>   > > 
>   > > ----- Original Message ----- 
>   > > From: Cass Silva 
>   > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
>   > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 2:21 AM
>   > > Subject: Re: theos-talk History
>   > > 
>   > > 
>   > > 
>   > > And your quoting of the King James Bible relates to altruism? How so?
>   > > Cass
>   > > 
>   > > >________________________________
>   > > > From: M. Sufilight <global-theosophy@>
>   > > >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
>   > > >Sent: Thursday, 12 April 2012 1:58 AM
>   > > >Subject: Re: theos-talk History
>   > > > 
>   > > >
>   > > > 
>   > > >Dear Cass
>   > > >
>   > > >My views are:
>   > > >
>   > > >You seem very eager to at all cost avoid answering my questions in the previous two-three posts.
>   > > >And you appearntly find my well meant questions from the heart to be a bad idea, when you (and nobody else) answer me on these central questions about altruism I have forwarded, and this despite some might have overlooked them?
>   > > >All right I will keep silent not write further answers to you, at least for some time to come, since altruism is appearently not important to you.
>   > > >
>   > > >_______________
>   > > >To all readers:
>   > > >I do not hope that I have offended you by asking my questions about how one could improve the promotion of non-sectarian altruism versus sectarian altruism among the various theospohical organizations and related theosophical organizations, theosophical forums included?
>   > > >If your silence is an expression of an (clear ?) opposition to my views - I will keep silent, and the let the universal law of ethics operate.
>   > > >And I will perhaps keep silent for many years. And then we will see whether the earth will shake and the climate change, perhaps like it did somwhere near 9564 bc.
>   > > >
>   > > >_______________
>   > > >
>   > > >In the so-called Holy Bible we find:
>   > > >"57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
>   > > >
>   > > >58 And cast [him] out of the city, and stoned [him]: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.
>   > > >
>   > > >59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon [God], and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."
>   > > >http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/book.php?book=Acts&chapter=7&verse=
>   > > >
>   > > >M. Sufilight
>   > > >
>   > > >----- Original Message ----- 
>   > > >From: Cass Silva 
>   > > >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
>   > > >Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 3:25 AM
>   > > >Subject: Re: theos-talk History
>   > > >
>   > > >Because you go on and on and on about it Morten
>   > > >Cass
>   > > >
>   > > >>________________________________
>   > > >> From: M. Sufilight <global-theosophy@>
>   > > >>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
>   > > >>Sent: Wednesday, 11 April 2012 2:05 AM
>   > > >>Subject: Re: theos-talk History
>   > > >> 
>   > > >>
>   > > >> 
>   > > >>Dear Cass
>   > > >>
>   > > >>What is wrong with the words I wrote in my two previous posts?
>   > > >>
>   > > >>Altruism is ever important - even when some persons find it unimportant.
>   > > >>This can only be denied by bad persons.
>   > > >>
>   > > >>M. Sufilight
>   > > >>
>   > > >>----- Original Message ----- 
>   > > >>From: Cass Silva 
>   > > >>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
>   > > >>Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 3:40 AM
>   > > >>Subject: Re: theos-talk History
>   > > >>
>   > > >>Morten,
>   > > >>The subject of altruism has been flogged like a dead horse on this forum. What is it that you won't let go of? Organizations can not be altruistic - it is people that make up those organizations. What do you want to do, get them to pass an 'altruistic test' prior to membership? As far as I know the TS is the only organisation that has free access to all its works, that in itself, suggests an altruistic and non materialistic approach to the teaching.
>   > > >>
>   > > >>Cass
>   > > >>
>   > > >>From: M. Sufilight <global-theosophy@>
>   > > >>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
>   > > >>>Sent: Monday, 9 April 2012 6:30 PM
>   > > >>>Subject: Re: theos-talk History
>   > > >>> 
>   > > >>>
>   > > >>> 
>   > > >>>Let me ask in the name of Altruism:
>   > > >>>Are there at all any readers who have a view about the below...I have offered?
>   > > >>>Is sectarianism in all respects not to be avoided?
>   > > >>>__________
>   > > >>>
>   > > >>>What is the Action Plan?
>   > > >>>
>   > > >>>To do a much much better effort in avoiding giving the Planet and Humanity the impression that the original Theosophical Society was a sectarian one - because that is a lie. Much more effort is required as far as I am concerned. If this effort succeeds, then we will have accomplished somthing. When this effort and lack of recognition continue to fail in succeding among the present day theosophical or related theosophical organizations - the whole idea of a universal Brotherhood of Humanity will fail in proportion with it, - more or less.
>   > > >>>I all organizations follow the same objects or aims - in essence - why are they then not - as a minimum at least - affilliated with each other in the name of altruism?
>   > > >>>
>   > > >>>All the above are of course just my views. I present them from my heart seeking to promote altruism.
>   > > >>>I will gladly change them if someone are able to prove them wrong.
>   > > >>>
>   > > >>>__________
>   > > >>>The views I have offered in my below post given April 3rd 2012 can be related with regard to various forums - related to theosophy - whether they call themselves Theos-talk (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/) , The Theosophical Community ( http://theosophical.ning.com/ ) Theosophy Network's Ning site (http://theosnet.ning.com), or Esoteric Online (http://www.esotericonline.net/forum) or Theosophy Forum ( http://z14.invisionfree.com/Theosophy ) or LeadbeaterAndBesant (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LeadbeaterAndBesant/ ---- officially with 1113 members.) or something else.
>   > > >>>
>   > > >>>M. Sufilight
>   > > >>>
>   > > >>>----- Original Message ----- 
>   > > >>>From: M. Sufilight 
>   > > >>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
>   > > >>>Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 8:51 PM
>   > > >>>Subject: Re: theos-talk History
>   > > >>>
>   > > >>>Dear MKR
>   > > >>>
>   > > >>>Very interesting...
>   > > >>>A few views...
>   > > >>>
>   > > >>>In the below we have:
>   > > >>>"....."Living Theosophy" is what HPB indicated to the members, among others, as
>   > > >>>to how they could help the Society (Key to Theosophy). "
>   > > >>>
>   > > >>>M. Sufilight says:
>   > > >>>But "Living Theosophy" was, as i understand it, never in the early TS days, to be made somthing that one leader or a minor group of leaders (handpicked "Eminent" Theosophists - so-called, picked by a biased hand) indoctrinated anyone into as a belief, (wÃf­th a heavy down-watering of the spirit of science and philosophy), because that is in opposition to altruism. The Law of Karma and Reincarnation was never made an article of Faith within the Theosophical Scoiety in its early days. So why should it happen in our time, year 2012, when the science (not belief) of psychology has made such great advances since 1875? Or rather why is it - outwardly semingly - that which is happening in not a few Theosophical Orgnizations? Is it altruism to promote the atmosphere of a sect - and not the opposite - non-sectarian altruism?
>   > > >>>Practical altruism - promoted with one author promotions or one - biased (depending on the TS or related branch) - set of doctrines promotions (more than one author) - can never be altruism, per se. It is the open and free search, that is leading to altruism in these days of ours. For instance not ufo allergic reactions or a lack of self-criticism - called the apex of altruism.
>   > > >>>
>   > > >>>And yes:
>   > > >>>What is the Action Plan?
>   > > >>>
>   > > >>>To do a much much better effort in avoiding giving the Planet and Humanity the impression that the original Theosophical Society was a sectarian one - because that is a lie. Much more effort is required as far as I am concerned. If this effort succeeds, then we will have accomplished somthing. When this effort and lack of recognition continue to fail in succeding among the present day theosophical or related theosophical organizations - the whole idea of a universal Brotherhood of Humanity will fail in proportion with it, - more or less.
>   > > >>>
>   > > >>>All the above are of course just my views. I present them from my heart seeking to promote altruism.
>   > > >>>I will gladly change them if someone are able to prove them wrong.
>   > > >>>
>   > > >>>M. Sufilight
>   > > >>>
>   > > >>>----- Original Message ----- 
>   > > >>>From: MKR 
>   > > >>>To: theos-talk 
>   > > >>>Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 6:57 PM
>   > > >>>Subject: theos-talk History
>   > > >>>
>   > > >>>Here is a msg from a member who has difficulty in posting. I am posting it
>   > > >>>on his behalf
>   > > >>>
>   > > >>>It is true that many of the teachings of HPB came into 'open' very long
>   > > >>>after they were made. The papers like the Original Programme, Diagram of
>   > > >>>Meditation, How to study the Secret Doctrine stand clear examples of that.
>   > > >>>
>   > > >>>Now, the point is to: Popularize the teaching to the masses (public).
>   > > >>>Digitizing the texts is one thing. It should not be forgotten that the
>   > > >>>theosophical movement is aimed at the 'intellectuals' to make them learn
>   > > >>>and work for the masses. Saying that the knowledge about Globes, Rounds and
>   > > >>>Chains, Root-races, Sub-races and Family-races is all 'verbose', requiring
>   > > >>>no immediate concern has become a 'fashion'. Theosophy should be made
>   > > >>>'practical - another adage is frequently used. How does one 'describe' or
>   > > >>>'elaborate' the methodology one has to adopt or emulate?
>   > > >>>"Living Theosophy" is what HPB indicated to the members, among others, as
>   > > >>>to how they could help the Society (Key to Theosophy). Is there a more
>   > > >>>royal way besides the members studying their Texts, assimilating the
>   > > >>>Teaching and setting an example in Living (without a proclamation or pride
>   > > >>>that they are doing this)? Talking and writing on the knowledge of
>   > > >>>Theosophy is also an equal task, if not more! What is the Action Plan?
>   > > >>>
>   > > >>>Dr N C Ramanujachary
>   > > >>>
>   > > >>>Literature is for Portrayal of Philosophic Ideas.
>   > > >>>
>   > > >>>Dr N C Ramanujachary(Srivirinchi)
>   > > >>>Besant Gardens, The Theosophical Society, Adyar, Chennai 600 020
>   > > >>>Phone: 044/24913584, Mobile: 9444963584
>   > > >>>
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