Re: theos-talk Understanding "globes' in the context of today's cosmology
Apr 03, 2012 08:34 AM
by M. Sufilight
A few views might be helpful to add...
Yes. but only almost quite so.
I will add that...
Cass wrote:
"Causal body (vehicle of the abstract or higher mind)"
M. Sufilight says:
Blavatsky said more than one time that the Causal body - is the Higher Manas + Buddhi, and not only the Higher Manas alone except in special very materialistic cases. (See the Key to Theosophy, 2nd ed. 1890 and elsewhere.)
Besant, leadbeater, Alice A. Bailey and a number of later theosophically related authors changed for some strange reason that definition by Blavatsky to the one given by you and others Cass that the Causal Body is the Higher Manas. And since Blavatsky's version coincide with various teachings in the ancient cultures, I prefer to have an eye on it.
Just to let the readers know about it.
M. Sufilight
----- Original Message -----
From: Cass Silva
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 2:10 AM
Subject: Re: theos-talk Understanding "globes' in the context of today's cosmology
Seven Cosmic Planes
Main article: Planes of existence
The Cosmos does not consist only of the physical plane that can be perceived with the five senses, but there is a succession of seven Cosmic planes of existence, composed of increasingly subtler forms of matter-energy, and in which states of consciousness other than the commonly known can manifest. Blavatsky described the planes according to these states of consciousness. In her system, for example, the plane of the material and concrete mind (lower mental plane) is classified as different from the plane of the spiritual and holistic mind (higher mental plane). Later Theosophists like Charles Webster Leadbeater and Annie Besant classified the seven planes according to the kind of subtle matter that compose them. Since both the higher and lower mental planes share the same type of subtle matter, they regard them as one single plane with two subdivisions. In this later view the seven cosmic planes include (from spiritual to material):
1. - Adi (the supreme, a divine plane not reached by human beings)
2. - Anupadaka (the parentless, also a divine plane home of the divine spark in human beings, the Monad)
3. - Atmic (the spiritual plane of Man's Higher Self)
4. - Buddhic (the spiritual plane of intuition, love, and wisdom)
5. - Mental (with a higher and lower subdivisions, this plane bridges the spiritual with the personal)
6. - Emotional (a personal plane that ranges from lower desires to high emotions)
7. - Physical plane (a personal plane which again has two subdivisions the dense one perceivable by our five senses, and an etheric one that is beyond these senses)
[edit]Seven Principles and Bodies
Main article: Subtle body
Just as the Cosmos is not limited to its physical dimension, human beings have also subtler dimensions and bodies. The "Septenary Nature of Man" was described by Blavatsky in, among other works, The Key to Theosophy; in descending order, it ranges from a postulated purely spiritual essence (called a "Ray of the Absolute") to the physical body.[53]
The Theosophical teachings about the constitution of human beings talk about two different, but related, things: principles and bodies. Principles are the seven basic constituents of the universe, usually described by Mme. Blavatsky as follows:
1. - Physical
2. - Astral (later called etheric)
3. - Prana (or vital)
4. - Kama (animal soul)
5. - Manas (mind, or human soul)
6. - Buddhi (spiritual soul)
7. - Atma (Spirit or Self)
These Principles in Man may or may not form one or more bodies. Mme. Blavatsky's teachings about subtle bodies were few and not very systematic. In an article she described three subtle bodies:[54]
* Linga Sharira - the Double or Astral body
* Mayavi-rupa - the "Illusion-body."
* Causal Body - the vehicle of the higher Mind.
The Linga Sharira is the invisible double of the human body, elsewhere referred to as the etheric body or doppelgÃnger and serves as a model or matrix of the physical body, which conforms to the shape, appearance and condition of his "double". The linga sarira can be separated or projected a limited distance from the body. When separated from the body it can be wounded by sharp objects. When it returns to the physical frame, the wound will be reflected in the physical counterpart, a phenomenon called "repercussion." At death, it is discarded together with the physical body and eventually disintegrates or decomposes. This can be seen over the graves like a luminous figure of the man that was, during certain atmospheric conditions.
The mayavi-rupa is dual in its functions, being: "...the vehicle both of thought and of the animal passions and desires, drawing at one and the same time from the lowest terrestrial manas (mind) and Kama, the element of desire."[55]
The higher part of this body, containing the spiritual elements gathered during life, merges after death entirely into the causal body; while the lower part, containing the animal elements, forms the Kama-rupa, the source of "spooks" or apparitions of the dead.
Therefore, besides the dense physical body, the subtle bodies in a human being are:
* Etheric body (vehicle of prana)
* Emotional or astral body (vehicle of desires and emotions)
* Mental body (vehicle of the concrete or lower mind)
* Causal body (vehicle of the abstract or higher mind)
These bodies go up to the higher mental plane. The two higher spiritual Principles of Buddhi and Atma do not form bodies proper but are something more like "sheaths".
[edit]Rounds and Races
>________________________________
> From: vimal balachander <vimal_b@w1m9iNzpOsK1EmZqi3my463iisH4KAZja-sEI4PbO_zJCTpdaAcYVf5g1CLB5uzF4CaL13QAVVU.yahoo.invalid>
>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Sunday, 1 April 2012 10:35 PM
>Subject: Re: theos-talk Understanding "globes' in the context of today's cosmology
>
>
>
>
>
>Thank you sir, that was a wonderful exposition. A lot to think about.
>
>These days, the more I read, I realise all I have to do is change myself, no great philanthropic work is personally possible, small acts of kindness and other small changes in perceptions, seem to be all, at least I, on my small scale, can do. But theosophy is an Elixer for the rational spiritual seeker.
>------------------------------
>On Sun 1 Apr, 2012 12:50 PM IST M. Sufilight wrote:
>
>>Dear vimal and friends
>>
>>My views are:
>>
>>In my previous post I mentioned that the 7-fold structure very much applied to us humans on Earth and the Solar System as a whole and gave concrete examples on why with regard to our planet ---- and said that my knowledge tell me the same. "As above, so below" says the old proverb from Hermes-Pymander (or Emerald Tablet - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_Tablet). Yet, I claim like others that the Law of Analogy - has its limitations - when Non-duality become central.
>>
>>And I said that the 7-fold structure is likely not a Universal Principle as such in the most broadest terms, and that it is logical. At least to me it is so.
>>The whole Universe with its Space-substance are something of a quite different structure and folded - geometrically in the space-structure - in a manner where other numbers are central or where not even numbers are central. Try to consider this fact that the substance, the elements found there, (also on various levels), most likely is of a quite different structure (with other kinds of spin and rotation in the atomic structures or other levels of conscoiusness, here physcially speaking) in the Andromeda Galaxy compared to the one in the Milky Way. This is as I see it logical. And Blavatsky also told about it somewhere in her book the Secret Doctrine, and some scientists have even forward this thought in a however more materialistic version. Prove it is however difficult.
>>
>>Here are some of the views known by Blavatsky. I quote Blavatsky extensively, because I find her views to be among the very few on the subject. And I am not aware of many outside scientific circles who has written about the subject in the samme manner as given in the below...central quotes...And only very few wrote about something similar before her time. Many later writers are more or less copy-cats. The highest Dhyan Chohans are the Masters Master on this our planet and those who are connected to this Earth chain and the Solar system.
>>
>>
>>
>>Blavatsky said:
>>"But when, extending our speculations beyond our planetary chain, we try to cross the limits of the solar system, then indeed we act as do presumptuous fools. For â while accepting the old Hermetic axiom: "As above, so below" â we may well believe that as Nature on Earth displays the most careful economy, utilizing every vile and waste thing in her marvellous transformations, and withal never repeating herself â we may justly conclude that there is no other globe in all her infinite systems so closely resembling this earth that the ordinary powers should be able to imagine and reproduce its semblance and containment. *
>>âââââââââââââââââââââââââââââ
>>* We are taught that the highest Dhyan Chohans, or Planetary Spirits (beyond the cognizance of the law of analogy), are in ignorance of what lies beyond the visible planetary systems, since their essence cannot assimilate itself to that of worlds beyond our solar system. When they reach a higher stage of evolution these other universes will be open to them; meanwhile they have complete knowledge of all the worlds within and beneath the limits of our solar system."
>>......
>>"And this is true to the letter. For even great adepts (those initiated of course), trained seers though they are, can claim thorough acquaintance with the nature and appearance of planets and their inhabitants belonging to our solar system only. They know that almost all the planetary worlds are inhabited, but can have access to â even in spirit â only those of our system; and they are also aware how difficult it is, even for them, to put themselves into full rapport even with the planes of consciousness within our system, but differing from the states of consciousness possible on this globe; i.e., on the three planes of the chain of spheres beyond our earth. Such knowledge and intercourse are possible to them because they have learned how to penetrate to planes of consciousness which are closed to the perceptions of ordinary men; but were they to communicate their knowledge, the world would be no wiser, because it lacks that experience of other
>forms of perception which alone could enable them to grasp what was told them."
>>(Secret Doctrine, Vol. II. p. 701)
>>http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/SDVolume_I.htm
>>
>>
>>
>>Blavatsky also said:
>>"The reader has to bear in mind that the Stanzas given treat only of the Cosmogony of our own planetary System and what is visible around it, after a Solar Pralaya. The secret teachings with regard to the Evolution of the Universal Kosmos cannot be given, since they could not be understood by the highest minds in this age, and there seem to be very few Initiates, even among the greatest, who are allowed to speculate upon this subject. Moreover the Teachers say openly that not even the highest Dhyani-Chohans have ever penetrated the mysteries beyond those boundaries that separate the milliards of Solar systems from the "Central Sun," as it is called. Therefore, that which is given, relates only to our visible Kosmos, after a "Night of BrahmÃ."
>>(Secret Doctrine, Vol. I. p. 13)
>>http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/SDVolume_I.htm
>>
>>Blavatsky also said:
>>"The first, or the purely Formless and invisible Fire concealed in the Central Spiritual Sun, is spoken of as "triple" (metaphysically); while the Fire of the manifested Kosmos is Septenary, throughout both the Universe and our Solar System."
>>(Secret Doctrine, Vol. I. p. 87)
>>http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/SDVolume_I.htm
>>
>>Blavatsky also said:
>>"The Solar System, brought into existence by these agencies, consists of Seven Principles, like everything else within these centres. Such is the teaching of the trans-Himalayan Esotericism. Every philosophy, however, has its own way of dividing these principles."
>>(Secret Doctrine, Vol. I. p. 110)
>>http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/SDVolume_I.htm
>>
>>Blavatsky also said:
>>"Thus not alone the elements of our planets, but even those of all its sisters in the Solar System, differ as widely from each other in their combinations, as from the Cosmic elements beyond our Solar limits.*"
>>[FOOTNOTE] "*This is again corroborated by the same man of science in the same lecture, who quotes Clerk Maxwell, saying "that the elements are not absolutely homogeneous." He writes: "It is difficult to conceive of selection and elimination of intermediate varieties, for where can these eliminated molecules have gone to, if, as we have reason to believe, the hydrogen, &c. of the fixed stars is composed of molecules identical in all respects with our own." And he adds: "In the first place we may call in question this absolute molecular identity, since we have hitherto had no means for coming to a conclusion save the means furnished by the spectroscope, while it is admitted that, for accurately comparing and discriminating the spectra of two bodies, they should be examined under identical states of temperature, pressure, and all other physical conditions. We have certainly seen, in the spectrum of the sun, rays which we have not been able to identify." "
>>(Secret Doctrine, Vol. I. p. 110)
>>http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/SDVolume_I.htm
>>
>>
>>Blavatsky also said:
>>"The answer to this is: "Everything in Nature has to be judged by analogy. Though the highest Deities (Archangels or Dhyani-Buddhas) are unable to penetrate the mysteries too far beyond our planetary system and the visible Kosmos, yet there were great seers and prophets in olden times who were enabled to perceive the mystery of Breath and Motion retrospectively, when the systems of worlds were at rest and plunged in their periodic sleep."
>>(Secret Doctrine, Vol. I. p. 110)
>>http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/SDVolume_I.htm
>>
>>
>>Blavatsky also said:
>>
>>"The Law of Analogy in the plan of structure between the trans-Solar systems and the intra-Solar planets, does not necessarily bear upon the finite conditions to which every visible body is subject, in this our plane of being. In Occult Science this law is the first and most important key to Cosmic physics; but it has to be studied in its minutest details and, "to be turned seven times," before one comes to understand it. Occult philosophy is the only science that can teach it. How, then, can anyone hang the truth or the untruth of the Occultist's proposition that "the Kosmos is eternal in its unconditioned collectivity, and finite but in its conditioned manifestations" on this one-sided physical enunciation that "it is a necessity of Nature to run down?"
>>(Secret Doctrine, Vol. I. p. 150-151)
>>http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/SDVolume_I.htm
>>
>>Blavatsky also said:
>>"* The reader is reminded that Kosmos often means in our Stanzas only our own Solar System, not the Infinite Universe."
>>(Secret Doctrine, Vol. I. p. 199)
>>http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/SDVolume_I.htm
>>
>>Blavatsky also said:
>>"â "Trans-solar space," writes the great Humboldt, "does not hitherto show any phenomenon analogous to our solar system. It is a peculiarity of our System, that matter should have condensed within it in nebulous rings, the nuclei of which condense into earths and moons. I say again, heretofore, nothing of the kind has ever been observed beyond our planetary system." (See Revue Germanique of the 31st Dec. 1860, art. "Lettres et conversations d'Alexandre Humboldt.") True, that since 1860 the nebular theory has sprung up, and being better known, a few identical phenomena were supposed to be observed beyond the solar system. Yet the great man is quite right; and no earths or moons can be foundâexcept in appearanceâbeyond, or of the same order of matter as found in our system. Such is the Occult teaching."
>>(Secret Doctrine, Vol. I. p. 497)
>>http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/SDVolume_I.htm
>>
>>Blavatsky also said:
>>
>>"Professor Jevons attributes all the great periodical commercial crises to the influence of the Sun spots every eleventh cyclic year. (See his "Investigations into Currency and Finance.") This is worthy of praise and encouragement surely."
>>(Secret Doctrine, Vol. I. p. 541)
>>http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/SDVolume_I.htm
>>(M. sufilight says: NASA in USA has an average of 9-14 years for the Sunspots during the latest decades. So there are variations.)
>>
>>
>>________
>>
>>And from the commentaries on the Blavatsky Lodge papers:
>>"Q. What is really meant by the term "planes of non-being"?
>> A. In using the term "planes of non-being" it is necessary to remember that these planes are only to us spheres of non-being, but those of being and matter to higher intelligences than ourselves. The highest Dhyan-Chohans of the Solar System can have no conception of that which exists in higher systems, i.e., on the second "septenary" Kosmic plane, which to the Beings of the ever invisible Universe is entirely subjective. "
>>http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/Transactions.htm
>>
>>Now these are Blavatsky's views. I follow these views, because some of the above are in accordance with my own knowledge on the subject.
>>And because I have not found great many others forwarding anything on this particular subject.
>>
>>All the above are of course just my views. I present them from my heart seeking to promote altruism.
>>I will gladly change them if someone are able to prove them wrong.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>M. Sufilight
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: vimal balachander
>> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 7:16 AM
>> Subject: Re: theos-talk Understanding "globes' in the context of today's cosmology
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you Sufi light-that was a lot to understand and imbibe. I still have one question-does this 7-fold understanding then only apply for us on earth and is not a universal principle?
>>
>> Also I think , if Theosophy professes to be a comparative study of religion science and philosophy, then shouldn't there be an active discourse with scientists and cosmologists? It appears to me that Theosophists and theososphy is caught up in a time wrap of its own making. The fundamentals of today's scientific discoveries like Multiverse and String theory need study in the theosophic context. Somewhere at sometime ,Science may prove all theosophic doctrines right.
>>
>>
>> >________________________________
>> > From: M. Sufilight <global-theosophy@g5i1tw8pnlS5Q6ho3WNOFU_1s2j228pu9XNp9QOX7xY9MyqVB4ubxyCCUVNm6RIGPA8Oh9MC8aI9X0u7NF-hN7ZePX_o.yahoo.invalid>
>> >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>> >Sent: Saturday, 31 March 2012, 19:37
>> >Subject: Re: theos-talk Understanding "globes' in the context of today's cosmology
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Dear vimal and friends
>> >
>> >My views are:
>> >
>> >I might be able to help you a little...
>> >Let me seek to tell what I know and have learnt...
>> >
>> >In the Secret Doctrine by Blavatsky she says that the seven-fold structure is the most logical one to use - although other schemes might be used. And that the seven-fold structure is for the whole Solar System, and all its visible and invisible planets, with which our little Earth is connected.
>> >It is also said that there are different worlds outside the Solar system, and that in the Universe - one will find that the "Space-Substans" structure is folded in different manners - then we have it in our Solar system. I can provide the references from the Secret Doctrine if it is needed. Other ideologies or hypotheises have different views. The known Hindu cosmological doctrine forwards a seven-fold Universe for the Whole Universe on various levels, and therefore differs a bit from Blavatsky's version in this respect. It is said that the Seven Rishi's are connected with the The Big Dipper outside the Solar system - and that it is related to very early days in our human Solar System.
>> >
>> >Personally I have through inner experiences learnt that the number Seven ethically is the best suited for those who would like to learn about wisdom in this Solar System. There are seven notes in the scale of sound says science. There are seven holes in the craium of the human. There are all in all seven layers of skin says science. There are syv groups of Elements in the periodical table (something known about India thousands of years before modern science was in its cradle). Because of this the number of psychological types of humans are invariably divided into a seven-fold structure - sound and psychology are related. And above this - the old law written in Hermes-Pymander: As above so below. Is true in this time-based universe. The foetus are seven-fold in its structure. Colors are seven-fold in the rainbow. Humans have five senses + psychological Mind and the synthesis of the six, named Understanding = seven in all. And more...of the same.
>Humanity
>> is about to develop psychological awareness.
>> >
>> >See also:
>> >"OLD AND NEW METHODS "
>> >"Again, the reader of the "Fragments" will be puzzled at the reference in the passage cited above to the twelve transformations of the planet. Twelve transformations will not at first seem to fit into the septenary divisions to which students of occultism under the new method have been accustomed. But the explanation simply is that the new method is very frank and outspoken about a good many points on which the old system has been very reserved and mysterious. The seventh form of all things has been regarded by the older school of occult writers as too sacred to be written about. A hundred and one quotations might easily be put together to show how profoundly they were impressed with the septenary idea, and what enormous importance they attributed to the number 7 in all its bearings.
>> >http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v4/y1883_034.htm
>> >
>> >H. P. Blavatsky wrote quite interestingly:
>> >"Occultism divides the "Creators" into twelve classes; of which four have reached liberation to the end of the "Great Age," the fifth is ready to reach it, but still remains active on the intellectual planes, while seven are still under direct Karmic law. These last act on the man-bearing globes of our chain."
>> >(The Secret Doctrine vol. II, p. 77)
>> >http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/SDVolume2.htm
>> >
>> >And this is not understood in various 12-fold new Age groups these days.
>> >There is the eternal limitless Universe. And the whole eternal limitless Universe is right here at your nose and within reach - if your consciousness with allow. So we are never alone. And our universe is a universe where we can count. In other universes in cosmos we might not be able to count and think.
>> >
>> >___
>> >All the many New Agers who claim to channel a Master or God from another Galaxy or a Star-Constellation might imagine they are right - but all of them - is as I understand it - merely channeling astral-lower mental galaxies - areas one can visit within our Solar System while astra-travelling etc. etc. Else they are deliberately lying seeling to earn money. And most of them never give their wisdom freely to other persons - they want money. As they say: Follow the money. (Smile.)
>> >
>> >All the above are of course just my views. I present them from my heart seeking to promote altruism.
>> >I will gladly change them if someone are able to prove them wrong.
>> >
>> >M. Sufilight
>> >
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: vimal
>> >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>> >Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 7:25 AM
>> >Subject: theos-talk Understanding "globes' in the context of today's cosmology
>> >
>> >The billion stars in just our milky way and a possible half a billion planets and a very large number of earth like planets-these findings of today's cosmology-how do they integrate with the 7 globes concept? Is the 7 globe concept only for earth? Does that mean we are alone in this universe?
>> >
>> >While the proposal of emerging from a single atom(Secret Doctrine)which splits into 7 and goes one splitting further,might find corraboration in recent cosmological findings and the concepts of multiverse, 11 dimensional space might find resonance with the theories of astral/mental/higher planes of vibration,the question of extra terristrial evolved life seems to be unresolved (at least explicitly) in theosophic texts that I have come across.While some might argue that such information is not relevant to one's own moral growth, one does need the answer in the context of understanding evolution.
>> >
>> >Am sorry if these questions sound naive to you,but I think am missing something fundamental here.
>> >
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