Theos-Talk Archives (January 2012 Message tt00179)

Dear friends

My views are:

Thank you Paulo for a very interesting post.
And I certainly agree on some of your comments.

In the very interesting paper (http://blavatskyfoundation.org/torch.pdf ) I found some very truthful words - but also something that I felt a need to respond to...

The following can be found in the above link:
"If we think we have difficulties upholding the Dzyan Dharma among men, consider the difficulties of the Mahatmas, presented by the forces arrayed against them! The enemy knows that if "The Guardian Wall" can be breached, the very Destiny of humankind on this globe will be set back a billion years! And the votaries of the Dark Gods are closer to their goal than they have been at any time during the last 500 years!"
http://blavatskyfoundation.org/torch.pdf

Let me tell you...that this is a wild view seen from my perspective and knowledge.
There will be no set-back of that kind. Be assured about this.
The Law of Karma - which some of us claim to know about will operate as always. No such wild sudden set-back can occur. This is a logical conclusion when one know about the Law of Karma in this Earth-evolution.
But that is just me and my words.

On top of that I find the article to have a tendency to forget - why the Masters and Blavatsky sought to create - an Absolutely Non-Sectarian Theosophical Society - and not a sectarian one based on a self-elected group's claimed knowledge of something they call Theosophy

A Torch-bearer arriving - would not doubt avoid trampling more or less on the non-sectarian idea of the Original Programe of 
the Absolutely Non-Sectarian Theosophical Society as it was given in 1875-1891 (with contrast to dogmatism, Churches, spiritualism and sects - according to BCW. Vol. VIII, p. 145) and a few years more - until perhaps year 1908 or 1910 - when the Society clearly failed in being non-sectarian. And it has, as I see it, clearly struggled, to be ABSOLUTELY non-Sectarian since those fatal years. (The TS Adyar shrines - with one New Age sect among them. And - The TS Adyar website with some persons apparently being - more - Prominent than others --- are clear factual deviations from an ABSOLUTELY Non-Sectarian line of thought.)
And the various Theosophical Off-shoot groups seem not to have achieved better - except - perhaps a few small groups. - You may tell me I am wrong - but then I will have to ask you to forward the Consitution and Rules for the organisation in mention - and - tell me why it is not officially available on the oranisation(s) website or websites - which it aught to be - at least in the name of ALTRUISM. This is how I see it all.

Therefore I ask:
Where are the latest the Constitution and Rules for 
1) The Blavatsky Foundation
2) ULT LODGE
3) Pasadena Theosophists
4) Theosophical Society Adyar
5) Lucis Trust (I have mailed the headquarters - they responded at first - but have not responded since my last email for some weeks now. Perhaps they suddenly got busy? - They claim they are non-sectarian on their website and tell me that they give primary emphasis on Alice A. Bailey's books - and other words).
6) Claire Prophets Church
7) Krishnamurti Foundation and J. Krishnamurti's Schools. (He said in 1980 or so that he did not like how - his - schools operated.)
8) others?

Are any of them online on their websites clearly presented in the name of Altruism?
I think not. And we ask why not - in the name of Altruism ?

All the above are however just my views. Maybe I have overlooked something.
I never-the-less have the hope that some of you find my words useful and can see the vital importance of keeping the Absolutely Non-Sectarian organisational Object of Altruism intact and alive --- call this aim a Torch if you like. But, Altruism I care about primarily as far as I am able to do so.

__________

Here is another interesting paper from The Blavatsky Foundation I came across
SAI BABA BESTS THE PARAPSYCHOLOGISTS by Walter A. Carrithers, Jr.
http://blavatskyfoundation.org/saibabaabr.pdf

My views are:
In the last hundred years Sathya Sai Baba can wthout doubt be said to have been - either - the greatest Occultist (with regard to Extra Sensory Perception) on the planet or the greatest con-man.
The first time Sai Baba officially said he was the Avatar of the Age was in 1968. He also said it earlier more unofficially according to some of his early followers.
I can only support the view that he was able to materialise objects and definitely that he possessed abilities on Mind-Reading.
The voluminous number of case of examples on Extra Sensory Perception emanating from this character cannot not just like that be put in a trashcan without - a careful and non-superficial objective study.
I simply have too many examples to choose from - and - also from acquaintances here in little Denmark - if the latter are taken alone - so to make me reject the whole affair as a mere con and cheat - with regard to 

Extra Sensory Perception emanating from this claimed Avatar. (A short example: I have meet a woman here in Denmark who meet Sai Baba for private interviews a few times. She told me that one time outside away from the crowds - in the hot summer in 40 degrees celcius or so - he materialised ice-cubes to her and gave them immediately into her open hand. The ice-cubes where freezing cold - just as if taken from a freezer. - And there are more stories like that from other persons here in Denmark. Some of them quite ordinary and sane persons.) Sai Baba is on record saying that he did not allow Parapsychologists to make scientific studies of him for spiritual reasons - his ethics did not operate like that. Erlendur Haraldsson book on Sai Baba is named by many as the best research on Sai Baba - although it has some faults in it as well, proven by later researchers. (I do however know that he once had a so-called private interview with a group of parapsychologists. In this interview - he was said to have materialised an object to the most doubting among the visitors. This man really got his world turned around. Smile. But this I only have as second-hand info. --- Another time I was at a local meeting here in Denmark - held by the Christians - they had been down to Sai Baba - with the aim of finding out his faults - not his posiotive sides, mind you. - The three youngster held a fine academic lecture with slides about their trip. They rejected him as a new revalation. But they admitted 
something strange - when they saw him in the morning at the so-called Darshan - where he walked about among the crowd - there emanated a very strange silence from him - so strong that one could almost touch it in the air. - I had my private smile when I heard that from the materialistic oriented Christians - who were quite baffled about it. -----  I myself have meet Sai Baba on astral-travel or one looking like him - when I was a young kid - and before I ever had heard about him. But again these are only my words.) This does not however on my part imply, that I that I think there could not have been - fake - indcidents at least from time to time.
Whether he was an Avatar - will for me remain open - until I actually know, just like with anyone else. (But I do not consider him to be an Avatar today. But rather like Diana Baskin's former Husband a stock-broker or similar at Wall-Street (called Radhaka - 1000-headed monster by a teasing Sai Baba) said it: "He is an Alien!" - Smile. - Diana Baskin was daughter or step-daughter of Rajagopal Desikacharya - the close friend of J. Krishnamurti.) And there will always be a little doubt among anyone on this. And not to talk about non-objective prejudice and in the opposite camp biased fanatical stances in favour of his activities - despite many accusation about foul play and cheating etc. etc. No real Avatar escapes opposition - and we admit that when being honest in our hearts. But who was that little man? - (As an acquaintance of mine said: Be friendly and give that man a haircut! Smile.) Here is one of many videos on Sai Baba: Sai Baba Interview 1978 (Part 2) - 4-5 small videos in all --- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0aKzfC9uYc&feature=related  (As will be seen in part 3 - he differs in views about when Krishna was born compared to Blavatsky as she is read in general.) ---- There are of course also all the accusation videos - many of them not quite objective - although some are seeking an objecitve stance - which I think one aught to not just dismiss without consideration - while being emotionally calm and seeking an honest open.minded and objective stance.

What has been the general view about Sai Baba in the Theosophical Society and other theosophical groups (let us leave Share International out of this question)?
Not that he necessarily is a torch-bearer. But what has the objective views in general been - also before year 2000 before al the accusations of cheat etc. etc. reach the public?


Let us promote genuine altruism. And remove ignorance.

Alle the above are of course just my views and questions.
I am open to suggestions. But let us seek to be objective and emotionally calm.


M. Sufilight


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: paulobaptista_v 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 9:35 PM
  Subject: theos-talk About Emma Britten and the torch-bearer of truth


    
  Thank you Govert for all you wrote about K. 

  I do not agree with your perspective on Blavatsky. My ideas about her are closer to Daniel's.
  I was appalled to see Marion Meade's biography about Blavatsky mentioned as a good book, when her statements on this video

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vThc0c1WIug&feature=related
  (check also parts 1, 3 and 4)

  confirm the warnings made by Carrithers 
  http://blavatskyfoundation.org/abstractionfromtbf.htm

  I see no use in reading a book based on older books that are known to depict lies. 

  For me, the most interesting biography about Blavatsky is "Blavatsky and her teachers", by Jean Overton Fuller. Although not a biography in a strict way, Daniel's "The Esoteric World of Mme Blavatsky" is also extremely helpful if you want to know the arguments of those who were for and against the Old Lady.

  I don´t have a good impression about Elizabeth Claire Prophet, although I admit I do not have enough information on her. I know that in alpheus.org there are some articles about Prophet, and I intend to read them. She won the Ig Nobel prize in 2011 for predicting the end of world in the year of 1990 and some of her sons have strongly criticized her. Check what one of them had to say in 2006:

  http://www.blacksunjournal.com/elizabeth-clare-prophet/150_happy-birthday-mom_2006.html

  In a previous post someone mentioned Emma Hardinge Britten. As far as I am aware, Emma Britten was one of the first members of the TS. In 1876 she published "Art Magic", a book which was recently re-edited by Marc Demarest. Yesterday I was searching for that passage about the "torch-bearer of truth" in the Portuguese version of the "Key to Theosophy" and in the previous page I found strong criticism by Blavatsky about "Art Magic".

  She wrote: "The cycle of "Adepts," used as sledge-hammers to break the theosophical heads with, began twelve years ago, with Mrs. Emma Hardinge Britten's "Louis" of Art Magic and Ghost-Land, and now ends with the "Adept" and "Author" of The Light of Egypt, a work written by Spiritualists against Theosophy and its teachings."

  "The spiritualistic author of Art Magic, etc., may or may not have been acquainted with such an Adept [Louis, who according to Emma Britten, gave much of the information contained in the book]- and saying this, I say far less than what that lady has said and written about us and Theosophy for the last several years - that is her own business."

  Blavatsky and Emma became enemies right after the release of Art Magic? When did Emma leave the TS? 

  About the 20th century "torch bearer of truth", I found these two articles written by Carrithers:

  http://blavatskyfoundation.org/torch.pdf

  http://blavatskyfoundation.org/hasdamodarreturned.pdf

  and also this one published in the Winter of 2008 in Fohat

  http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=298

  which are of some interest, concerning this subject.

  When we look to the last quarter of the 20th century we see a popularization of the concepts of karma and reincarnation, mainly through the hands of men of science. We have Raymond Moody Jr's "Life after Life" released in 1975 about NDEs. In 1977, the first academic article by prof. Ian Stevenson about reincarnation was accepted by a medical journal (his work gave strong support to the advocates of reincarnation). We could even add Brian Weiss' books about past lives, the first being published in 1988. Buddhist teachings spread widely in the West during the 1975-2000 period.

  In astrology, we had the resurge of ancient techniques, with the translation of valuable old books by astrologers like Robert Hand, Robert Zoller and Robert Schmidt, all of them with an extensive knowledge of Greek or/and Latin. This had a tremendous impact in the Art.

  It is quite clear for me that the common man of our Western societies has heard a lot about karma and reincarnation in the last 35 years. Movies (and even soap operas) used them as plot devices. Despite of all that happened in the 60's I guess that those concepts were not that popular in 1975 as they are now.
  There was not an intervention of a "torch- bearer of truth", nor did the TS had an important role in the 1975-2000 period. Taking HPB words literally, we can hypothesize that the course of events led to a change of strategy, and the option was to popularize two core concepts, benefiting from the visibility and credibility that men of science have. Of course we could discuss some of their methods, especially in the case of Brian Weiss. 

  I am sure that all that happened in the TS after Blavatsky's death surely impeded the TS of being the body that could continue the work of its Founders. I certainly agree with Carrithers and Redfern on this.

  Blavatsky's words were:
  "Towards the close of each century you will invariably find that an outpouring or upheaval of spirituality - or call it mysticism if you prefer - has taken place. "

  And the question that has to be asked is if this happened in the last quarter of the 20th century or not. In my opinion, yes, it has.

  PB



  

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