Re: theos-talk Re: Contrasts to Christian Churches at Christmas - the Original Programe?
Jan 01, 2012 10:01 AM
by M. Sufilight
Dear friends
My views are:
Since - nobody has added any comments to my below post about The Theosophical Society as given in 1875-1891, a body given in its constitution to be ABSOLUTELY NON-SECTARIAN compared to the present day Theosophical Society - and - I would say also most of its later well-known off-shoot or branched-off organisations ----- then I might add the following words. . . . .
I write with the heart beaming and seek to help us all. Be assured about this.
The promulgation and promotion of altruism was the main corner-stone and object for the The Theosophical Society as given in 1875-1891. No doubt about it.
The present day Theosophical Society - and - I would say also most of its later well-known off-shoot or branched-off organisations claim the same object to be their main object. No doubt about it.
And the object written as "To form the nucleus of a Universal Brotherhood of Humanity, without distinction of race, creed, sex, caste or colour" (http://www.teozofija.info/tsmembers/Rules_1890.htm) in the Constitution given in The Theosophical Society as given year 1891 - is this very idea - of promoting altruism.
It then to me becomes clear, that because of this, there cannot be any real Altruism promoted in any individual human being and its interactions in the world - without - a PSYCHOLOGICAL change occurs. No doubt about it.
Now today we have so-called CIVILIZED Technology of all kinds on this little planet called Earth - the Internet is one of them. And it is used by millions of human beings these days - so that they and we can communicate with each other. Some of us them seek to use the Internet as a tool to promote and promulgate altruism by. A noble attempt no doubt. An perhaps also despite the fact that the Internet or computers requires energy - electric energy to operate.
One of the main methods used on the Internet by theosophical, esoterical, and spiritual inclined individuals are what we call FORUMS.
Many such forums exists today on the Internet with the aim of promoting altruism. Many of them claim that their forum - is THE REAL THING (!) Also so-called theosophists do that.
- No doubt about it.
THEN THE QUESTIONS ARISES WHETHER
a) this is true for all of them - and whether there are various forums which are more adequate than others with regard to promote and promulgate real Altruism and thereby Psychological Change in the individual?
b) whether Altruism - actually can be promoted - wholeheartedly and sincere - through a SECTARIAN operated forum - and - a forum run by a SELF-Elected (- 99,9% are like that -) board or group of forum-administrators - who decides when various rules count?
c) Can real and honest ALTRUISM and COMPASSION actually be promoted - wholeheartedly and sincere - through ignoring the fact that there are hundreds and even thousands of Internet forums today - almost all of them being run by a TOP-DOWN structure - with some at the TOP and others at the BOTTOM (ordinary members - more or less disliked by the administrators - more or less liked by the same, ie. the sectarian and self-elected administrators) ???
I will seek to arrive at a closer answer to this question in this post here in the below.......
On the Internet we today for instance have the following major - and to some readers no doubt more or less well-known forums.....
I will here only - in the main - list English based forums claiming to promote or aiming to promote Altruism...
The list was created from the major groups found on Yahoo groups in the category" Spirituality" (numbering 38777 groups !) - and - a few others was added.
I had an eye on the present and past levels of activity in each forum when I created the list. And also on the list as such. I could have added more lists and others aught perhaps to have been added. But I had to limit the list as well. Others interested in it might be able to expand it better with links to the, so to speak, DIRECTLY theosophically related forums.
No need to look at all the website. I merely intend to give the readers an overview - and comment on it in the below.
1) The Theosophical Network - http://theosnet.ning.com (Members 900)
(The administrative board called me a Fanatical Christian without any reason what so ever. This - despite all the work I do to avoid fanaticism and sectarian behaviour among fellow human beings - the science Subtle Mind Control etc. etc. - so to thereby help us all to promote altruism. So therefore I will never participate on that forum again. At least not until it changes its administrative behaviour and its constitution. Unhappy meetings aught to be avoided.)
2) Theos-talk - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/ (Members 369)
3) Theosophy_ - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theosophy_/ (Members 336)
4) The Theosophical Community - http://theosophical.ning.com/ ( Members ? - not advertized.)
5) More here- "Theosophical Blogs and Forums": http://www.squidoo.com/wisest-theosophy-online-ever
6) Edmonton Theosophical Society - http://www.theosophycanada.com/ (Members ?)
7) StudyCircle: Interfaith Communion - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/StudyCircle/ (Members 1.449)
8) Rosicrucian_Garden - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Rosicrucian_Garden/ (Members 1.009)
9) The Temple of Ascension - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TempleofAscension/ (Members 506)
10) saibabanews - http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/saibabanews (Members 8.461)
11) saibabaofindia - http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/saibabaofindia (Members 7.347)
12 The Disappearance of the Universe Group - http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/Disappearance_of_the_Universe (Members 5.123) "A Course in Miracles".
13) Chicken Soup for Ismaili Soul - http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/ismailisoul (Members 4.286)
14) Spiritually_Speaking - http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/Spiritually_Speaking (Members 3.593)
15) Advaita Nonduality Yoga Nisargadatta - http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/Nisargadatta (Members 1.430) - quite active.
16) Divine Revelation - http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/divinerevelation (Members 1.300)
17) Enlightened opinion on Sri Chinmoy - http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/Sri_Chinmoy_Inspiration (Members 1.153)
18) Share11 - UFO Disclosure and 2012 etc. etc. - http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/Share11 (Members 813) - quite active.
19) ParanoidTimes · Exposing the New World Order! - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ParanoidTimes/ (Members 2.943)
20) Spiritual Forums - http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/ (Members 13.054)
21) Audarya Fellowship - http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya.php (Members about 7.000)
22) ufoandparanormalstuff - http://tech.groups.yahoo.com (Members 1.928)
* 23) Krishnamurti - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/J_Krishnamurti/
24) Abovetopsecret.com - http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/19/pg1/srtpages
25) Unexplained Mysteries - http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com (Members 2.681)
26) Ancient-Mysteries - http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/Ancient-Mysteries (Members 2.851)
27) David Icke's forum - http://forum.davidicke.com (Members 1.894)
* 28) Ashtacommand forum - http://www.ashtarcommandcrew.net/forum (Members ?)
29) Lightworkers - http://lightworkers.org/ (Members ?)
* 30) Agni Yoga Discussion Forum - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/agni-yoga/ (Members ?)
* 31) Ageless Wisdom Discussion Forum - http://esotericstudies.net/forum/ (Members ?)
* 32) Lucis Trust forum - http://www.lucistrust.org/en/forums (Members ?)
33) Personal Development for Smart People Forums - http://www.stevepavlina.com/forums/ (Members 48.465)
# 34) Indigo Society, a forum for Indigo Children and Adults - http://indigosociety.com (Members 24.426)
35) Sciforums - http://www.sciforums.com (Members 25.887)
36) Parapsychology and alternative medicine forums - http://forum.mind-energy.net/ (Members 2.399)
37) Fortean Times - http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/ (Members 36.509)
38) JREF Forum (James Randi) - http://forums.randi.org/forumindex.php (Members 28.887) Anti-spiritual?
39) The Supernatural World - http://www.thesupernaturalworld.com/forum/index.php (Members 15.625)
40) Physics Forums - http://www.physicsforums.com/ (Members 325.714) - Not really spiritual at all.
41) Occultforums - http://www.occultforums.net/forum.php - (Members 6.405)
* 42) Summit Lighthouse - http://www.tsln.org/default.aspx (Members ? )
* 43) I AM University - Joshua Stone - http://www.iamuniversity.org/iamu/ (Members - See them on Facebook)
44) URI - http://www.uri-deutschland.de/ (No forum as far as I can tell. - Maybe they just work instead.)
45) PaganSpace.net - http://www.paganspace.net/ (Members ? )
46) wiccanplace - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wiccanplace/ (Members 1.987 )
47) Adult_Witchcraft - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Adult_Witchcraft/ (Members 4.146)
48) AlternativeAnswers - http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AlternativeAnswers/ (Members 10.629) - Spiritual?
49) Moonlady News: eco-holistic-spirit-fun - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MoonladyNews/ (Members 3.221)
50) Graham Hancock - meesageboard - http://www.grahamhancock.com/phorum/list.php?f=5 (Members ? )
51) Ramana Maharshi - http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php
Well Theos-talk and theosophical forums are not the only ones around on the Internet of a spiritual nature. As it can bee seen from the above minor excerpt from the Internet. The Internet has with other words today tons of forums to chew from, (and waste time on?). Back in the 1990'ties when Theos-talk and Theos-l forums began things were no doubt different.
And I have not even listed the major groups on Spirituality at Facebook and at other places.
And the growing numbers of spiritual-related blog-websites.
Now - WHY - do all of the above groups not join a Absolutely Non-Sectarian organisation? - And seek to promote Altruism and Compassion - and discover the meaning of life TOGETHER?
Or operate their forums with a group of moderators in an Absolutely Non-Sectarian manner and not in a SELF-elected manner?
Is Sectarianism so important, that Altruism shall be hampered by Self-elected moderators?
THE MAIN QUESTION IS:
So how can - real and honest - ALTRUISM and COMPASSION actually be promoted - on a claimed Altruistic seeking Internet Forum - wholeheartedly and sincere - by being run by a top-down structure - with some Self-elected persons at the TOP and others at the BOTTOM (ordinary members - and not - esteemed known lecturers, Ph.D.'s or "guru's" or "authors", because they often seem to be given a special reverence as members, almost "worship"-like in nature - and after few years a statue of them is created - idol-worship)???
Bottom line either you (as a moderator) run an ABSOLUTELY NON-SECTARIAN forum or you do NOT.
Bottom line either you (as a moderator) run an ABSOLUTELY NON-SECTARIAN forum claimed to be based on the lines laid down in the Original Porgrame for the Theosophical Society (1875-1891) or you do NOT.
Bottom line either you run an ABSOLUTELY NON-SECTARIAN - Theosophical (or Esoterical or merely claimed Altruistic) Organisation claimed to be based on the lines laid down in the Theosophical Society or you do NOT.
These must be facts.
Why be full-blown sectarian about it all if you are sincere and honestly aim at being compassionate?
Or are you not that honest about it after all?
People on this planet only seem to demand Sects and Sectarianism - they never seem to realise what a Non-Sectarian organisation actually is.
Now, I am not all that against Guru's....and neither their followers...
Their followers need their guru as much as the guru needs his followers. I just don't regard it as a religious operation - almost all cases on this planet. I take a guru to be a sort of psychotherapist, and perhaps even a Heretical one (a smile to - Chuck). At the very best, he keeps people quiet and polarized around him and gives them some sort of meaning to their lives.
______________________
Nasrudin the Middle Eastern copy of what is called a jokish Jester or a Trickster.
NASRUDIN on HOW TO CONVERT A THEOSOPHIST
In this case Mulla Nasrudin and his son were members of a theosophical organisation and forum or a related one.
Mulla Nasrudin's son, studying theosophical organisations and forums - and related similarities, asked his father, "Dad, what's a traitor in theosophical organisational matters?" "Any man who leaves our forum or organisation," said the Mulla, "and goes over to the other one is a traitor." "Well, what about a man who leaves his forum or organisation and comes over to your's?" asked the young man. "HE'D BE A CONVERT, SON," said Nasrudin, "A REAL CONVERT."
A comment:
The science of Psychology - has a related science (not belief) called the science of Subtle Mind Control or subtle Coersive Persuasion. This science - on why people convert to this or that organisatation and whether they benefit from it in the name of compassion - is operating as we speak in various spiritual and claimed "theosophical" organisations --- and --- similar Internet forums, whether they be theosophical or of another spiritual kind. Most Seekers after Wisdom and Compassion and promulgation of Altruism - seldom seem to realise - that the very reason for them converting to a spiritual organisation or Internet Forum - might be due to the fact - that the Science of Subtle Mind Control is involved. The reason for their actions might in fact be due to something less - prideful and less bragging in nature - namely subtle and undetected fear or egotism or greed.
And since science recognizes that the Science of Subtle Mind Control (science subtle Coersive Persuasion) do exist - and that fear, egotism and greed do exist, and altruism and kindness as well and that people might join various organisations exactly because of these same things, fear, egotism and greed etc. etc., - then it seems only natural to take this issue far more serious - when one as a Better-Knowing theosophist seek to promote and promulgate ALTRUISM in an honest and sincere manner. Because here we are dealing with recognized scientific facts.
So those you promote theosophical organisations and forums - aught to realise what they actually are doing and NOT doing. And perhaps, especially the last.
______________________
All the above are just my views. I might be in error. If so, do not hesitate telling me why.
I am merely seeking to help us all improve and promulgating altruism.
M. Sufilight
----- Original Message -----
From: M. Sufilight
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: theos-talk Re: Contrasts to Christian Churches at Christmas - the Original Programe?
Dear Jake and all ffriends
My views are:
I will seek to explain a bit more about how I see it, and throw a few links to the TS Adyar website.
I also write this to all the other persons who might be reading it.
I write with the heart beaming and seek to help us all. Be assured about this.
The Shrines at Theosophical Society in Adyar
http://www.ts-adyar.org/content/shrines
The Liberal Catholic Church Shrine
(Church of St Michael and All Angels)
"This is an attractive, well-appointed church where services according to the rites of the Liberal Catholic Church are held on Sunday mornings and other important days. Members visiting Adyar for the Convention like to attend the beautiful and inspiring service held on Christmas Eve, followed by the Holy Eucharist on Christmas Day."
http://www.ts-adyar.org/node/97
A Church being Attractive? Not a certain person in it with Mitre and all? When......?
To me, It is the above lack of contrast to Churches - Christian ones included we all are faced with today when visiting the TS Adyar Compound. This lack of contrast can be compared to the Original Programe of the Theosophical Society in 1875-1891, an Absolutely Non-Sectarian - Programe and Constitution. And if Theosophical Society Adyar want to praise some of the major religions - why not praise them all? Why only a few hand-picked ones, hatched in the claimed "universally intuitive" skulls of the TS "leaders"?
Why not the Pagan ones, the Norse Mythology, ALL the Egyptian Mysteries, the Mysteries from Greece, and (the assumed?) nature spirits living in or at plants and trees on the TS Adyar Compound as such etc. etc. - and on and on. And why not build shrines for all other New Age groups on the TS Adyar Compound as well (the Ballards -the Alice A. Bailey's - the Ashtar Command - the Aurobindo's - the Krishnamurti Foundation etc. etc.) - and not only the Liberal Catholic Church - which in FACT - is a NEW AGE sect? Unanswered questions, screaming to heaven for compassion.
But, then there will of course be no room and end to all the Shrines which need to be build on the TS Adyar Compound and the money spent on it - and on maintenence. But why be biased about it all?
Nay, - I say, tear down the Sectarian image on the Compound - that is my view.
What will the next thing be?
- The "leaders" of Theosophical Society might go build a Shrine for Master Morya and KH - despite the Masters themselves clearly themselves rejected the idea in the 1880-ties. So why the present day shrines for the other Masters of the present Shrines who are far older and seemingly far more filled with Wisdom?
Or a Shrine for Blavatsky and Olcott (Or perhaps they already have one...see here: http://blog.good-will.ch/WordPress/2011/05/07/sowing-seeds-for-the-future-the-white-lotus-day/ - inside at TS Adyar.)
There seem to be no end to this strange activity of - Idol worship - among the theosophical administrators (!!!) And not to mention the amount of money used on something like that...(!) - The next will perhaps be a statue of the Messiah to some --- J. Krishnamurti. I fool myself in knowing that he would have disliked the idea very much, and I think you agree with me on that.
So why throw the boot at Blavatksy and Olcott?
((( The words of the Masters? "We make no unwiling slaves", the Masters says. http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/Letters%20of%20HPB.htm - Blavatsky wrot to A. P. Sinnett:" When the superlatively idiotic idea of a Temple of Humanity or Universal Brotherhood came into Olcott's pumpkin"......"Well; Olcott came one day and said, "Do ask Master to permit me to have money (generally) subscribed for the Temple." So I sent his temple and himself to a hot place and said I WOULD NOT. Then he went to Damodar, and D.-asked I think, for two or three days after I heard through Damodar that the prohibition to Hurrissingjee of spending money on such flapdoodles had been removed and that Hurrissingjee had a letter to that effect. I remember as though it was to day Dj. Khool's voice laughing and saying "He will catch it with his temple, the gallant Colonel." Next time D. K. I asked why was the prohibition removed when the very idea of the temple was stupid, and some people went against it. He said-"Well you ought to know that when there is a strong desire on both sides Masters never interfere. They cannot prevent people from hanging themselves." I paid no great attention to these words then, I thought they referred to the foolishness of the "temple." I understand them now." ---- the words "I WOULD NOT" is given upper-case by me. --- So not only a shrine for Master Morya and KH - but one for Blavatsky and Olcott....That is where we are today in year 2011-2012....I can only cry out....and tell you that I find the use of money to be stupid and unwise when we talk about promulgating altruism....and...the time spent on maintenance as well.)))
What I cannot fathom is the openly stated need for praising the Liberal Catholic Church on the TS Adyar Compound and giving the Christmas day a special importance on the TS Adyar website as well (Christmas day, a day fabricated by Pope Julius I and his friends) - See the text in the above link and my earliere post on this.
- My view is, that It is those who will cry the most (and most often behind closed doors - working behind the scenes) - when seeing the very building of this New Age sect being removed from the TS Adyar Compound, who has the most trouble in understanding the term ABSOLUTELY NON-SECTARIAN with regard to the Original Programe of the Theosophical Society in 1875-1891.
As I see it, the Liberal Catholic Church on the TS Adyar Compound, is a clear deviation from the idea of the Theosophical Society being in contrast with Christian Churches and Spiritualists and sects as such. - The Theosophical Society being ABSOLUTELY NON-SECTARIAN in 1875-1891 in its Original Programe. This Original Programe has apparently for years been deviated from, at least since the 1920-ties and if not earlier on since the year 1908 or os. And has, as I see it, been deviated from since Annie Besant and her friends, C. W. Leadbeater included, got their say and their Messiah-craze. And since then a New Area of lack of contrast to Christian Churches and other Churches has, apparently, been a part of the structure of the TS Adyar compound.
It was repeatedly said in 1875-1891 among members of the Society that:
The Theosophical Society is not Theosophy, and aught not to be so. Yet this important statement it seems - has failed in being understood by many persons until this very day.
The Theosophical Society in 1875-1891 was ABSOLUTELY NON-SECTARIAN. Theosophy was merely what each individual held as his or her own sectarian view about life. Not what various so-called well-known administrative leaders (and perhaps authors) told - others or "dumb" ordinary members - to think about life. Later, it seems, the term "Theosophy" became known as the mutual content of the major and most well-known authors within the Theosophical Society - or - the books written by the leaders of the Society. This does not remove the fact that The Theosophical Society aught to have remained ABSOLUTELY NON-SECTARIAN despite this.
The TS Adyar website has, as I see it today year 2011, problems in clearly pointing these ABSOLUTELY NON-SECTARIAN facts out on its website. So to leave no doubt in the readers minds about what Theosophical Society really is, and is not. The Theosophical Society is not a Sect - or - at least it aught not to be so. And the Theosophical Society was in 1875-1891 not a sect, so why not carefully see to it, that it is not taken for being one today, when we approach year 2012?
At present TS Adyar Compound is apparently a Compound where theosophical new-comers are welcomed with open arms. With - open arms - ready to if needed - to give them and their children, and especially their boys(?), the if they need it, a loving (Liberal Catholic) pastoral "care" on the TS Adyar compound. But not allowing quite a number of other New Age sects a place on the Compound, --- like the The Church Universal and Triumphant - with Claire Prophet, A. A. Bailey's, the Ashtar Command sects, etc. etc. to give their - SPIRITUAL care.
Therefore I see no need - to in the name of compassion and the aim of creating a Universal Brotherhood of HUMANITY and thereby promulgating Altruism -- for -- in a special manner and with special credits - praising such a New Age sect as the Liberal Catholic Church and having it on the TS Adyar compound, - because a New Age sect it most clearly is - and has been since its beginning. It is only recently females (in a rather late initiative of compassion? - only since year 2003 officially) has BEGUN being treated as EQUALS - and then only in some of the branches or spin-offs in that so-called Liberal Church. - There is, as I see it, a bad odour emanating from that Church and the existence of it on the TS Adyar compound. That is all I can say.
The Theosophical Society being ABSOLUTELY NON-SECTARIAN in 1875-1891. And was therefore with - emphasis - in opposition to sectarian behaviour and Church behaviour. And with good reasons - namely with the aim of promoting Altruism
The question is whether the NEW AREA - said by the present Theosophical Society Adyar website to have begun with Annie Besant (http://www.ts-adyar.org/content/early-history) also was ABSOLUTELY NON-SECTARIAN - or - whether is was something else? That is the question being forwarded. And I question it - as I have sought to show you in the above.
As J. Krishnamurti said: "Change completely! - both psychologically and outwardly."
No altruism without psychological change. This must be a fact.
And therefore also Outwardly. That is what is required if altruism is to be promoted and improved upon by the TS --- and --- thereby an Absolutely Non-Sectarian stance included as well. A betterment in the promulgation of Altruism will not be accomplished unless the "leaders" in the Theosophical Society change psychologically - and - its members as well.
Each person is always his or her own sect. All the other sects - with leaders at the top, ("Liberal Bishops" or "popes") cannot really promote altruism by being sectarian. Such sectarianism removes self-confidence in the individual. It conditions the individual. This is a recognized psychological scientific fact today - even among materialistic psychologists.
Now, all the other theosophical groups and theosophical off-shoots - are of course not (?) acting in the same manner as I have outlined in the above.
And altruism - is not sectarian, certainly not at its core
___________
Mahatma Letter no. 47 said:
"The sun of Theosophy must shine for all, not for a part. There is more of this movement than you have yet had an inkling of, and the work of the T.S. is linked in with similar work that is secretly going on in all parts of the world."
Mahatma Letter no. 4 said:
"You see then, that we have weightier matters than small societies to think about; yet, the T.S. must not be neglected. The affair has taken an impulse, which, if not well guided, might beget very evil issues. Recall to mind the avalanches of your admired Alps, that you have often thought about, and remember that at first their mass is small and their momentum little. A trite comparison you may say, but I cannot think of a better illustration, when viewing the gradual aggregation of trifling events, growing into a menacing destiny for the Theos. Soc. It came quite forcibly upon me the other day as I was coming down the defiles of Kouenlun - Karakorum you call them - and saw an avalanche tumble. I had gone personally to our chief to submit Mr. Hume's important offer, and was crossing over to Lhadak on my way home. What other speculations might have followed I cannot say. But just as I was taking advantage of the awful stillness which usually follows such cataclysm, to get a clearer view of the present situation and the disposition of the "mystics" at Simla, I was rudely recalled to my senses. A familiar voice, as shrill as the one attributed to Saraswati's peacock - which, if we may credit tradition, frightened off the King of the Nagas - shouted along the currents "Olcott has raised the very devil again! . . . The Englishmen are going crazy. . . . Koot Hoomi, come quicker and help me!" - and in her excitement forgot she was speaking English. I must say, that the "Old Lady's" telegrams do strike one like stones from a catapult! "
http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-4.htm
And now the theosophical Avalanche in the admired Alps has created --- the ULT, the Pasadens Theosophical Society, the Alice A. Bailey's, the Ballard's (?), the Claire Prophet's, and a great number of other organisations of various sizes. All of them (?) claiming to be Absolutely Non-Sectarian - and originating their main reason to exist from the mother Society - the original Theosophical Society - ie. the one given in 1875-1891 - (and not the present one).
I would invite them all to sit at a table and face the fact - that if ABSOLUTELY NON-SECTARIAN activities should have anything to meaning to the term, there cannot be any disivisions among such organisations.
It seem clear to me that it is because they fail to understand this therm "ABSOLUTELY NON-SECTARIAN" with regard to the theosophical constitution, that they until today have failed in working under the same roof (!!!) - Any comments?
A suggestion:
Do care for the old Society, that is what I am saying. See to it, that it will not fall away from being ABSOLUTELY NON-SECTARIAN.
And secure that this is clearly told to people, (that it is Absolutely Non-Sectarian and how this is defined), to the public, to the journalists, the historians, the writers, and the men of science etc. etc.
If it should fall away. Some of us will as always be ready to keep the torch going - and the fire at the fire-place, burning.
All the above are just my views. I might be in error. If so, do not hesitate telling me why.
I am merely seeking to help us all improve and promulgating altruism.
M. Sufilight
----- Original Message -----
From: proto37
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 10:28 PM
Subject: theos-talk Re: Contrasts to Christian Churches at Christmas - the Original Programe?
> "....imply building a Liberal Catholic Church on the Theosophical Society compound in Adyar." <
Is this true? It is absurd, and here I was fooling myself that things were better at Adyar than they used to be. But Adyar has not been a genuine "Theosophy"-oriented Society for over a 100 years and an extreme embarassment to other Theosophists much of the time. Not something to be "kind and gentle" about, seems to me. "M" and HPB certainly weren't always the kind and gentle types.
Good Christmas story quote!
- jake j.
--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight" <global-theosophy@...> wrote:
>
> Dear friends
>
> My views are:
>
> The following might be interesting to know about to some readers...
> The article was mentioned briefly in 1997 here at Theos-talk. The dream-tale seems to be interesting, because not much has changed - psychologically - since the article was published.
>
> CHRISTMAS THEN AND CHRISTMAS NOW
> "Though now universally observed by Christian nations as the anniversary of the birth of Jesus, the 25th of December was not originally so accepted. The most movable of the Christian feast days, during the early centuries, Christmas was often confounded with the Epiphany, and celebrated in the months of April and May. As there never was any authentic record, or proof of its identification, whether in secular or ecclesiastical history, the selection of that day long remained optional; and it was only during the fourth century that, urged by Cyril of Jerusalem, the Pope (Julius I) ordered the bishops to make an investigation and come finally to some agreement as to the presumable date of the nativity of Christ. Their choice fell upon the 25th day of December-and a most unfortunate choice it has since proved! It was Dupuis, followed by Volney, who aimed the first shots at this natal anniversary. They proved that for incalculable periods before our era, upon very clear astronomical data, nearly all the ancient peoples had celebrated the births of their sun-gods on that very day. ".......
> "In our modern times, the bishops and the clergy join no more with the populace in open carolling and dancing; and feasts of "fools and asses" are enacted more in sacred privacy than under the eyes of the dangerous, argus-eyed reporter. Yet the eating and drinking festivities are preserved throughout the Christian world; and, more sudden deaths are doubtless caused by gluttony and intemperance during the Christmas and Easter holidays, than at any other time of the year. Yet, Christian worship becomes every year more and more a false pretence. The heartlessness of this lip-service has been denounced innumerable times, but never, we think, with a more affecting touch of realism than in a charming dream-tale, which appeared in the New York Herald about last Christmas. An aged man, presiding at a public meeting, said he would avail himself of the opportunity to relate a vision he had witnessed on the previous night.
>
> . . . He thought he was standing in the pulpit of the most gorgeous and magnificent cathedral he had ever seen. Before him was the priest or pastor of the church, and beside him stood an angel with a tablet and pencil in hand, whose mission it was to make record of every act of worship or prayer that transpired in his presence and ascended as an acceptable offering to the throne of God. Every pew was filled with richly-attired worshippers of either sex. The most sublime music that ever fell on his enraptured ear filled the air with melody. All the beautiful ritualistic Church services, including a surpassingly eloquent sermon from the gifted minister, had in turn transpired, and yet the recording angel made no entry in his tablet! The congregation were at length dismissed by the pastor with a lengthy and beautifully-worded prayer, followed by a benediction, and yet the angel made no sign!
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> . . . Attended still by the angel, the speaker left the door of the church in rear of the richly-attired congregation. A poor, tattered castaway stood in the gutter beside the curbstone, with her pale, famished hand extended, silently pleading for alms. As the richly-attired worshippers from the church passed by, they shrank from the poor Magdalen, the ladies withdrawing aside their silken, jewel-bedecked robes, lest they should be polluted by her touch.
> . . . Just then an intoxicated sailor came reeling down the side-walk on the other side. When he got opposite the poor forsaken girl, he staggered across the street to where she stood, and, taking a few pennies from his pocket, he thrust them into her hand, accompanied with the adjuration, "Here, your poor forsaken cuss, take this!" A celestial radiance now lighted up the face of the recording angel, who instantly entered the sailor's act of sympathy and charity in his tablet, and departed with it as a sweat sacrifice to God.
>
> A concretion, one might say, of the Biblical story of the judgment upon the woman taken in adultery. Be it so; yet it portrays with a master hand the state of our Christian society."
> http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v2/y1879_036.htm
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> "["ORIGINAL PROGRAMME" MANUSCRIPT]
>
> [Words within square brackets, as well as the italicizing of certain words and sentences, in passages quoted from the Chatterji-Gebhard Statement, are H.P.B.'s own, as careful comparison with the text of the Statement will show. Throughout H.P.B.'s Pronouncement, both in the main text of it, and in some of the footnotes, the occurrence of several dots indicates no elision of words, and is apparently meant to point to the beginning of a new thought which is particularly emphasized.
> -Compiler.]
>
> In order to leave no room for equivocation, the members of the T.S. have to be reminded of the origin of the Society in 1875. Sent to the U.S. of America in 1873 for the purpose of organizing a group of workers on a psychic plane, two years later the writer received orders from her Master and Teacher to form the nucleus of a regular Society whose objects were broadly stated as follows:
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> 1. Universal Brotherhood;
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> 2. No distinction to be made by the member between races, creeds, or social positions, but every member had to be judged and dealt by on his personal merits;
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> 3. To study the philosophies of the East-those of India chiefly, presenting them gradually to the public in various works that would interpret exoteric religions in the light of esoteric teachings;
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> 4. To oppose materialism and theological dogmatism in every possible way, by demonstrating the existence of occult forces unknown to science, in nature, and the presence of psychic and spiritual powers in man; trying, at the same time to enlarge the views of the Spiritualists by showing them that there are other, many other agencies at work in the production of phenomena besides the "Spirits" of the dead. Superstition had to be exposed and avoided; and occult forces, beneficent and maleficent--ever surrounding us and manifesting their presence in various ways-demonstrated to the best of our ability.
>
> Such was the programme in its broad features. The two chief Founders were not told what they had to do, how they had to bring about and quicken the growth of the Society and results desired; nor had they any definite ideas given them concerning its outward organization-all this being left entirely with themselves. Thus, as the undersigned had no capacity for such work as the mechanical formation and administration of a Society, the management of the latter was left in the hands of Col. H. S. Olcott, then and there elected by the primitive founders and members-President for life. But if the two Founders were not told what they had to do, they were distinctly instructed about what they should never do, what they had to avoid, and what the Society should never become. Church organizations, Christian and Spiritual sects were shown as the future contrasts to our Society."
> http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v7/yxxxx_019.htm
>
> With other words I conclude:
> And of course showing contrast between the Theosophical Society and "Church organizations, Christian and Spiritual sects" etc., etc. do - certainly not - imply building a Liberal Catholic Church on the Theosophical Society compound in Adyar.
> But then again others - seem to disagree upon this. Yet, I will, in all friendliness and compassion have to disagree with them for some time it seems.
> So lack of contrast to Christian Churches at Christmas - is a new Original Programe or a new Area?
>
>
> And as we approach the year 2012 in the more or less Gregorian Calendar; (a calendar created by Pope Gregory XIII in 1582. The same Pope who played a Te Deum, when the Bartholomew's Day massacre took place in 1572. And who had a Red Dragon as his heraldic shield, still on display at the Vatican); I can only have the wish that all readers always may have a beautiful day.
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> M. Sufilight
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