Theos-Talk Archives (December 2011 Message tt00010)

Great post on HPB and Kwan- yin.
You have a great breadth of esoteric interest and knowledge and when you focus in these areas you really shine.
Please more sharing on the Stanzas they are clearly the more esoteric side of the ancient wisdom teachings.
Sincerely Duane
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From: M. Sufilight <global-theosophy@4GWs2FYLYL4BJ_Cf1WPtghk32cruNldorNG2x_g-Mv_D1YRb3Yrk_rYcRDRQwEF6t1fyPdO6FvQzwHcCFfo3SOjNAXM.yahoo.invalid>
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Friday, December 2, 2011 3:29 PM
Subject: theos-talk Dzyan Stanzas - the Kunlun Mountains Goddess - Wangmu as Kwan-Yin


 
Dear freinds

My my views are:

I have for some days been researching about what is known as Khwan-Yin (Guanyin) or the triple Kwhan-Shai-Yin - in India also known as Avelokitesvara.

I have discovered various interesting things and I would like to share some of it with you.

First. I would like here to say, that it to me, is important to keep in mind that Blavatsky clearly said theosophy is NOT Buddhism (Key to Theosophy, p. 12-14, 2nd ed. 1890). And it should be obvious why, when reading her papers carefully. (See also "Wisdom of the Gods" Mr. Judge's Explanation of Theosophy - "Theosophy is not Buddhism,")
But I sense some people tend to forget this.

Some of you know that I find myself connected to H. P. Blavatsky although all the universe is important to little me - and also you who read this post.
H. P. Blavatsky wrote the following words about the Chinese goddess Kwan-Yin...which are very interesting to those of us who are interested in the esoterical teachings, akasha - the karma of humanity, and other aspects of the occult (in the sense of the promotion of hidden doctrines of compassion and removal of ignorance).....Bear with me, because it will be a longer post....with a lot of info to contemplate in the links given....and hopefully some of it helpful to some readers...

First a quote on the cosmology of the manifesting Logos to contemplate...and then I will comment a bit from it.

The Secret Doctrine Vol. I, p. 32, 70-71 + 136 and onwards:

STANZA VI.

1. BY THE POWER OF THE MOTHER OF MERCY AND KNOWLEDGE - KWAN-YIN - THE "TRIPLE" OF KWAN-SHAI-YIN, RESIDING IN KWAN-YIN-TIEN, FOHAT, THE BREATH OF THEIR PROGENY, THE SON OF THE SONS, HAVING CALLED FORTH, FROM THE LOWER ABYSS (chaos), THE ILLUSIVE FORM OF SIEN-TCHANG (our Universe) AND THE SEVEN ELEMENTS: *

2. THE SWIFT AND RADIANT ONE PRODUCES THE SEVEN LAYA CENTRES, AGAINST WHICH NONE WILL PREVAIL TO THE GREAT DAY "BE-WITH-US," AND SEATS THE UNIVERSE ON THESE ETERNAL FOUNDATIONS SURROUNDING TSIEN-TCHAN WITH THE ELEMENTARY GERMS.

3. OF THE SEVEN (elements)-FIRST ONE MANIFESTED, SIX CONCEALED, TWO MANIFESTED, FIVE CONCEALED; THREE MANIFESTED, FOUR CONCEALED; FOUR PRODUCED, THREE HIDDEN; FOUR AND ONE TSAN (fraction)REVEALED, TWO AND ONE HALF CONCEALED; SIX TO BE MANIFESTED, ONE LAID ASIDE. LASTLY, SEVEN SMALL WHEELS REVOLVING; ONE GIVING BIRTH TO THE OTHER.

------------------------------
* Verse 1 of Stanza VI. is of a far later date than the other Stanzas, though still very ancient. The old text of this verse, having names entirely unknown to the Orientalists would give no clue to the student."
http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/SDVolume_I.htm
(The rest of this Stanza aught perhaps to be read as well as the commentaries to it so to better understand the following...Italics and bold are included in the online versions. Here are some PDF versions of the Secret Doctrine down the page: http://blavatskyarchives.com/theosophypdfs/early_theosophical_publications.htm) 

M. Sufilight says:
Now, the above sound almost like a fairytale to some readers. What Blavatsky actually are trying to reveal or forward are being referred to in the later pages of the book and here SD. Vol. I, p. 22.
I have in the above added various words in parenthesis, which can be found later in the book by Blavatsky, when she write the commentaries to each verse.
The reason why I am quoting these passages is, that in it I found some interesting clues. 
One clue is the word or term "Kwan-Yin" and the fact that Blavatsky in the above footnote is saying that she here is quoting a NEWER version - which parallels the ancient Senzar manuscript she was writting the Secret Doctrine from.
(The original Dzyan Stanzas manuscript with very very ancient commentaries and a glossary - a special ESOTERIC version of the Kalachakra Tantra, different in content no doubt, was according to Blavatsky in the possesion of the Panchen Lama at Tashi Lunpho in Shigatse Tibet in the 1870-ties or so. - See BCW, Vol. XIV, p. 422-424 - http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v14/mb_007.htm)

The question which came naturally was, whether there existed an earlier version of "Kwan-Yin", the female goddess in Tibet in ancient times?

I found out that there indeed did exist such a goddess. This goddess was named Xi Wang-Mu or Wangmu. And she is considered very old by science and by the Chinese themselves.
And since this Wangmu as a Kuan-Yin if we follow Blavatsky's Stanza is a triple Logos - male and female according to Blavatsky, she is - in one of her three aspects - as the case might be - also what we called Fohat, the (feminine) Light of Logos (the male). Fohat (the propelling force of life as such) is the steed and thought is the Rider, said Blavatsky in the Stanzas. This can be seen in SD, Vol. I, on the pages 136-137 and as the Vaikhari-Vach in the Vedas on page 138, also page 81 - But Vach is not worshipped in India like in Tibet and China says Blavatsky (!), page 136. ("Kwan-Yin are synonymous with fire and water", - Transaction of the Blavatsky Lodge, p. 117) Kwan-Yin is the mother, wife, and daughter to the Logos as the case might be says Blavatsky. Further it is known that Kwan-yin is given as the Yin-aspect in Daoism (Taoism) by historical research.
Now if all these here mentioned view points are true, as I think it is - let us have this carefully in mind in the following........

Tracing Kwan-Yin to Wangmu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi_Wangmu) comparatively is easily done. Yet, the evidence shown of their - spiritual - identity can however always be opposed. The Yu the Great - Emperor of China (d. 2207 BCE says Blavatsky in BCW, Vol. III, p. 418) meet Wangmu according to the ancient papers. And she is in those papers and many others often referred to as having her residence in the Kunlun mountains to the West, (compared with Eastern China). Some trace the location to the far western range of Kunlun Mountains - and to the Pamir Mountains, others to the Northern range of Altyn-Tagh. (Old maps are not seldom better in leading one in the proper direction. Here is one from 1906: http://tibettruth.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/map20of20tibet2019062.jpg - Kuen-Luen-Mountains - and likely better from 1897: http://www.ciolek.com/WWWVLPages/TibPages/MAP/tibet-map-1897.gif) And at the time of emperor Yu the Great 2.200 BC - we find that
 there was a great culture in the Tamrim region, where science more recently has found the Urumchi mummies and other traces of rather "advanced" of cultures, (also referred to by Blavatsky and the archaeologist Stein). Elsewhere on the planet at that time, only a bit further to the West, we known that there existed a culture named the Harappa culture in the Indus-Valley, often dated to 2.600-1.900 BCE by science, and sometimes as far back as 3.500 BCE or a bit more. This culture was not small. It has been traced by present day science to cover an area from Punjab to Kashmir in India - and even more Eastern - to - the city Balkh and possibly Iraq in the West - including the ancient, spiritual centre, the city Taxila, near present day Pesheawar (where Aryasanga, known as Asanga was said to be born, and where he and others created the Mahayana Yogacara Buddhist school, although early Mahayana Buddhism was there in 349 BC says Gelugpa records.). The Harappa
 culture was very advanced for its time and had flush-toilets and other "advanced" technology compared to other cultures at its own time. (See for instance here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrappa - and - toilets here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flush_toilet - ) The Indus Valley culture at Mohenjo-daro had a female religious emphasis.

The Indus Valley Civilisation
(Short article with photos of Vedic Seals.)
http://veda.wikidot.com/indus-sarasvati-civilization

The following excellent article by Max Dashu, based on ordinary science, shows the relation between Kwan Yin and Wangmu much more clearly.
And she provides references to her written words. Some of the references are online and at googlebooks.com

>>> Xi Wangmu, the shamanic great goddess of China <<<
"One of the oldest deities of China is Xi Wangmu (Hsi Wang Mu). She lives in the Kunlun mountains in the far west, at the margin of heaven and earth. In a garden hidden by high clouds, her peaches of immortality grow on a colossal Tree, only ripening once every 3000 years. The Tree is a cosmic axis that connects heaven and earth, a ladder traveled by spirits and shamans.

Xi Wang Mu controls the cosmic forces: time and space and the pivotal Great Dipper constellation. With her powers of creation and destruction, she ordains life and death, disease and healing, and determines the life spans of all living beings. The energies of new growth surround her like a cloud. She is attended by hosts of spirits and transcendentals. She presides over the dead and afterlife, and confers divine realization and immortality on spiritual seekers. "
.......
"The magical fox, hare, frog, crow, and humans attend her in a tomb tile at Xinfan, Sichuan. The tomb art of this province shows the goddess of transcendence seated in majesty on a dragon and tiger throne. [Liu, 40-3] This magical pair goes back to the Banpo neolithic, circa 5000 BCE, where they flank a burial at Xishuipo, Henan. [Rawson, 244] Tiger and dragon represented yin and yang before the familiar Tai Ji symbol came into use during the middle ages."
http://www.suppressedhistories.net/goddess/xiwangmu.html

A few videos from Max Dashu might be of interest to those who like me (although I am living in a male body)
find that male-chauvinism is a problem on this planet...

Restoring Women to Cultural Memory 
(From a video by Max Dashu)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at7DN-Inwzg&feature=player_embedded#!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDpnit6jU-w&feature=related

See also "Saptamatrikas"
(The 7 Goddesses in Hindu religion. Also mentioned in Rig Veda. Madhu Bazaz Wangu "Images of Indian goddesses", p. 27-28 mentions that they have been found in Indus Valley seals !!! --- Elsewhere by other authors dated to 2.600 BCE. Islamabad Museum. See the seal with the 7 goddesses here: http://www.harappa.com/indus/34.html --- Other scholars find the links dubious.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrikas

"Durga-like" and the Indus Valley Civilization."
(New discoveries in the seals of the Indus valley. - With lots of photos showing Vedic content in the Indus Valley civilization. And that the Indus Valley script have great similarities with the "high"-cultured Vinca script found 5.500-4.500 BCE in the area of Bulgaria, Romania and even Greece. And since we and science have good reason to sucpect that the sanscript language came from the Indus Valley civilization - Se Blavatsky's note on van Kenndeys in Secret Doctrine Vol. I, p. xxxi: - "for Rawlinson shows an undeniably Vedic influence in the early mythology of Babylon; and Col. Vans Kennedy has long since justly declared that Babylonia was, from her origin, the seat of Sanskrit and Brahman learning." Very Interesting indeed. --- But it were not the Greeks who taught the Indus Valley civilization to write hints Blavatsky later on. So where did their script come from? - Themselves? Or from the North-East somewhere or...? - In North-Eastern China - north
 of Bejing they had a "high"-culture named the Hongshan Culture dating about 5.500 BCE. - See the Internet on this.)
http://www.scribd.com/doc/28503959/Durga-Like-the-Nude-goddess-of-the-Indus-Valley

Now. From the above we have that Wangmu or the early Kwan Yin was associated with being a tiger or a dragon in the old days of Daoism, yin and yang. Because she was both male and female, although also sexless. And this is important - as we can trace this goddess associated with tigers or lions to the Indus Valley civilization - and seals found by archaeologists there. Se the following page: http://www.suppressedhistories.net/Gallery/indus/tigers.html - these seals are also mentioned in various books by scholars.) Interesting is it not?

Since Fohat is the same as the Shakti in India, when we follow Blavatsky's views - we have that the teachings on Shakti have been traced many thousands of years back in time. Apparently at least 22.000 years says Wikipedia. Thousands of female statuettes dated as early as c. 5500 BCE has been found at the ancient site Mehrgarh, Pakistan. (See Wikipedia and elsewhere - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaktism or "Devi: goddesses of India" by John Stratton Hawley,Donna M. Wulff - and - "Devi Mahatmyam" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devi_Mahatmyam)

See also "Goddesses in World Culture," Volume 1 - by Patricia Monaghan, p. 143.
See also "Ambiguity of Avalokites'vara and Scriptural Sources for the Cult of Kuen-yin in China" by Professor Yu Chun-fang (A quite interesting read on Kuan Yin - http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-BJ001/10_18.htm - "It is a great paradox that although Kuan-yin is probably the best known and most beloved Buddhist savior in China, it is not at all clear that we know him / her that well." 

Although I do reference a number of texts, I do however not agree upon all of the content in the texts. That which is referenced is offered as a possible lead to an understanding of our human past, and thereby our present day lives. And an understanding of that the Dzyan Stanzas might have more to offer, than the apparent eye might think.

What do you think?

M. Sufilight

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