Theos-Talk Archives (November 2011 Message tt00002)

> Morton wrote: "that nearly all politicians have to act and work like a Walking LIE".
 
Morton now writes that "Nearly" all politicians "have" to act and work "like a walking living lie".
 
Morton backtracks from his original stance and concedes that the original statement was probably incorrect and a slur on all politicians including those that are trying to work as best they can, as well as those that work for the long range political vision, as Chohan KH informs us. So Mortons stance seems to suggest that some politicians or indeed humanitarians are good and well meaning working for the welfare of the people under inspiration of the first ray Chohan Morya, as best they are able and in all good faith, not all are then a "walking living LIE" as he first stated to the group. 
 
That misleading statement of his was dogmatic aimed at leading all in his audience to think it was completely true such as from a pope. It is indoctrination and his retraction implies it is not bona fina. He confuses the complexities of political life in general and blames Alice Bailey students for the police system, weapons/arms industry etc. He also states that AAB 'circles' promote these world problems, and that "Being a well meaning person does not remove these simple facts".
 
I suggest that Morton the representative of dogmatic theosophy considers being less dogmatic via "subtle Mind Control" and accusing of sectarianism lest he fall into the trap of becoming sectarian by default, if that is not already the case. Annie Besant did the best she could do and did much good for the social welfare of people. JPC.      
 
 
> JPC addressed
> 
> > > M. Sufilight wrote: 
> > > 
> > > >I conclude like Blavatsky: A politician is a living Walking LIE. 

 

> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> From: global-theosophy@RoNzd8bZHEq7vLw0hlg5HxeB7mCjhHWuSLZU2PmdO3pHDEMSAkXx7Ruy7G6LREWeOLcVevr20_Bzcx_nT1lCGhy0-Q.yahoo.invalid
> Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 23:28:59 +0200
> Subject: Re: theos-talk politics and various questions
> 
> Dear Jeremy and friends
> 
> My views are:
> 
> You did not answer my question with regard to whether the words by Blavatsky, which I quoted from her book the Key to Theosophy were in accordance with the truth. Would you be kind and do this?
> 
> Jeremy wrote:
> "Morton could be seen to be being untruthful, dogmatic, and misrepresenting the politicians that are genuinely working for social welfare in a difficult environment. "
> 
> M. Sufilight says:
> Well, it is not the first time people are impolite towards me. I merely stated my views in my previous post, and now I am being insinuated as being dogmatic.
> 
> Jeremy wrote:
> "Morton thinks a politician is a walking living lie. He has not provided the full quotation from Blavatsky though I do not dispute it was said. This infers All politicians are such and represents his personal view based on Blavatsky, strong as it is. He seems to accept thought, that the first ray Master Morya works through politicians and statesmen of the world and one instance is provided here with an emphasis on the long range vision. Does Morya think all politicians are a living walking lie, probably not. "
> .......
> "they might also recognise that there are such politically minded individuals >working for the genuine betterment and good of society and social welfare in general"
> 
> M. Sufilight says:
> And I might also recognize this last sentence. But there is neither no doubt in mind mind, that nearly all politicians have to act and work like a Walking LIE. Simply because party-line-politics requires this. And Spin. And the fact that they sign laws on a piece of paper (which they by the way change every year) or promote the whole scheme of doing it - while pretending that they are the Law of Karma in person. And there we have the ugly term subtle Mind Control (Do you understand the term Jeremy? If you do not, then just ask) creeping forward again. - And saying that there is altruism in having a system with police and army with weapons, and hammer-happy judges, and lawyers with a wallet to fill - must be strange thing to promote within Alice A. Bailey circles. - Being a wellmeaning person does not remove these simple facts. 
> Even Morya will agree upon these basic facts stated in this paragraph. This is at least obvious from my point of view. Reject them you can - but the truth will not go away.
> 
> So am I misrepresenting anything? Am i not stating the truth in the above?
> 
> 
> But, it seems that we now have settled on that the Theosophical Society given in 1875-1891 did not meddle with politics as such, and there was no voice on behalf of the Theosophical Society that did so. - So why injure the whole main idea behind the Original Programe of the non-sectarian and non-political Theosophical Society like the Alice A. Bailey groups do - Lucis Trust included - unless one find that party-line-politics is a good thing? - Why such a blurred stance at the - self-elected - Lucis Trust headquarters.
> 
> Lucis Trust is not a non-political body and neither a non-sectarian body. This must be a fact, when we consider its Newsletters and its affiliation with the United Nations, no matter how inter-governmental this body is claimed to be. (I say, for instance: Follow the money). And as long as it promotes a Great Invocation in a sectarian manner, so to make the Masters and Christ walk among men in bodily presence; - something I call immature atavism. And I find nobody rejecting this last view so far.
> 
> I will deeply question the integrity of the Lucis Trust as long as it does not clearly and visibly operate with open cards and make its constitution available publicly on its website. As well as its property ownerships. - Lucis Trust does as far as I am concerned nor own a trifle amount of official self-criticism. It seems as if it like to claim that it never make any mistakes. Is it honest?
> 
> The term "subtle Mind Control" are for instance to be found in a book by Steve Hassan named: "Combatting Cult Mind Control" as well as other books by anti-cult psychologists or exit-counsellors. Or William Sargant's "Battle for the Mind", 1957 is another one. Or "The Manipulated Mind" by Denise Winn. (Check Wikipedia or elsewhere - or Wikipedia on Pavlov's dogs "Classical Conditioning".) I suggest that you read then, if you want to understand what I am referring to when talking about Lucis Trust being political and sectarian, or at least having such tendencies.
> 
> Merely brushing my views away, can of course be done as well as refusing to accept the views given by Blavatsky on why altruism is best promoted without any political activities on behalf of a non-sectarian body seeking to promote altruism, - like the Theosophical Society did in 1875-1891, until Annie Besant changed it all in 1910 or so and later in 1914-1917. But taking me seriously is another option. And it seems to me, that it is difficult for most Alice A. Bailey followers.
> 
> Let those of you who know about the term "subtle Mind Control" tell us what it is referring to. I can easily fill a whole book just to explain it, so the problems surrounding this term really comes across - as a scientific fact - and not as a mere theory.
> 
> _____
> To Michael:
> Sorry Michael I can see I quoted the last part from your post and pasted it in my previous post to Jeremy.
> ((( *** Precisely, this shows that HPB and others visceral statements about "politicians" are simply flame throwing polemics, not reasoned statements from the Middle Way, and central pillar of the Tree of Life. )))
> 
> 
> All the above are of course just my views. I do not claim myself infallible as a "pope" or similar
> I do hope that it was useful at least some of it.
> 
> 
> M. Sufilight 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Jeremy Condick 
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 10:28 PM
> Subject: RE: theos-talk politics and various questions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > From: global-theosophy@RoNzd8bZHEq7vLw0hlg5HxeB7mCjhHWuSLZU2PmdO3pHDEMSAkXx7Ruy7G6LREWeOLcVevr20_Bzcx_nT1lCGhy0-Q.yahoo.invalid
> > Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 21:30:56 +0200
> > Subject: Re: theos-talk politics and various questions
> > 
> > Dear Jeremy and friends
> > 
> > My views are:
> > 
> > Thank you for your response Jeremy.
> > I find that your response are not clearly addressing the quotes I have been giving on why the Theosophical Society should be non-political. 
> > 
> > Why not Jeremy?
> 
> JPC addressed
> 
> > > M. Sufilight wrote: 
> > > 
> > > >I conclude like Blavatsky: A politician is a living Walking LIE. 
> 
> JPC: Morton could be seen to be being untruthful, dogmatic, and misrepresenting the politicians that are genuinely working for social welfare in a difficult environment. As to the TS I am sure its members may have personal political inclinations, yet remains non sectarian. This is the case with the AS and MF. All I would think work for the betterment of the world. Morton thinks a politician is a walking living lie. He has not provided the full quotation from Blavatsky though I do not dispute it was said. This infers All politicians are such and represents his personal view based on Blavatsky, strong as it is. He seems to accept thought, that the first ray Master Morya works through politicians and statesmen of the world and one instance is provided here with an emphasis on the long range vision. Does Morya think all politicians are a living walking lie, probably not. KH indicated the longer range work that Masters and their working political statesmen aim towards. 
> 
> "Neither Lord Ripon nor his Councillors (those behind the veil) anticipate any great results during his power in India. They are more Occultists than you may imagine. Their liberal reforms are not meant for India, to the weal or woes of which they are quite indifferent: they look far off to future results and -- Press acts, Ilbert's Bills, Bengal Rent Bills and the rest are aimed at Protestant England which, very soon, too soon if Somebody or Something does not interfere, will find itself suffocating in the invisible coils of the Romish Apophis. Friend and Brother, the only one of your race whom I regard with a warm, sincere affection, take care! Do not reject too lightly my warning for it is a solemn one, and but a hint I am permitted to make. Political skepticism, like every other, scorns and laughs at the observations of those who do not belong to its factions. It finds out its mistakes when in a ditch. Beware for it is no more a simple ditch, but an abyss that is being prepared for you!" Mahatma Letter 82. K.H. 
> 
> "The Master M. has a large body of pupils under his instruction, and works in connection with many organizations of an esoteric and occult kind, as well as through the politicians and statesmen of the world." IHS. 
> 
> >JC wrote:
> >The Masters, Blavatsky, Bailey and any number of other altruistic persons of goodwill might conclude that a politician is capable of being a liar or >deceiver out for selfish reasons of their own ambition. Likewise they might also recognise that there are such politically minded individuals >working for the genuine betterment and good of society and social welfare in general. Context and meaning are everything in written dialogue >especially if dispute over "a school of "practical" politics" is sought. In this political sense the Masters work through their disciples and Initiates >under the 'commandment of Christ', on the political first ray line with the long range view and objective, "they look far off to future results" and >also to gradual evolution of results set in motion in the past. JPC. 
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