Theos-Talk Archives (October 2011 Message tt00124)

Dear Jeremy and friends

My views are:

Thank you for answering. Your answer does however not remove the facts I stated in my previous posts with regard to the fact, that Lucis Trust is doing a bad job on picturing themselves as non-sectarian and non-political. As well as the fact, that they on their website clearly seem to promote themselves as a sectarian and political oriented organisation more than the opposite, despite calling themselves non-sectarian and non-political. If this is not true, please let me know. Jeremy?


### 1 ####
Jeremy wrote:
"The Lucis Trust offers study of a number of books. Namely, The Alice Bailey books, The Secret Doctrine, Isis Unveiled and other theosophical material, and the books of Helena Roerich' Agni Yoga. There is an extensive lending library of miscellaneous old and hard to find books by numerous authors, and also a continuous study of other authors works more contempary relating to science, philosophy and other subjects. The scope is very extensive indeed and does not adhere to one single author."

M. Sufilight says:
I do hope you do not mind me asking....And where do we read about this view by you on Lucis Trust website? And where are the official Constitution and Rules for the Lucis Trust?
Why be so overly secret about it???

And try this: 
"interview with Sarah McKechnie" 
(Sarah McKechnie is the International President of the Lucis Trust. If this does not spell sectarian behaviour within the Arcane School, I do not know what. - There is a clear emphasis on the Alice A. Bailey books here - and the clearly atavistic Great Invocation, - forgive me for saying so. )
http://www.lucistrust.org/en/productions/archive/interview_with_sarah_mckechnie

Is this not the truth, that the Alice A. Bailey books and the Great Invocation are emphasized?


Alice A. Bailey wrote about the Arcane School in the Autobiography:
"It is not an easy thing to run an esoteric school. It is [194] far from easy to take the responsibility to teach people true meditation. It is difficult to tread the narrow, razor-edged path which leads between the higher psychism, or spiritual perception, and the lower psychism which many people share with the cats and dogs. It is not easy to discriminate between a psychic hunch and an intuitive perception and then, also, take hold of peoples' lives spiritually, when they voluntarily put themselves into your hands for training, and give them what is needed."
........
"The Arcane School, if it is successful, will not therefore in this century at least have a large membership. Those ready to be trained in the spiritual laws which govern all disciples are rare indeed, though we can look for an increasing number. The Arcane School is not a school for probationary [195] disciples. It is intended to be a school for those who can be trained to act directly and consciously under the Masters of the Wisdom. There are in the world today many schools for probationers and they are doing great and noble and necessary work."
(Autobiography of Alice A. Bailey, Page 194-195)

M. Sufilight says:
This clearly shows me, that the Arcane School originally was formed with the aim of teaching certain doctrines on behalf of its members. And that the doctrine of the existence of the Masters was made an article of faith. This clearly involves the Arcane School as a sectarian School - and thereby also the Lucis Trust. - 

Is this not the truth?
And People should not put themselves in other persons hands, should they?

However, it is an esoteric school based as said by Alice A. Bailey in her book on Blavatsky's Esoteric Section and not on the non-sectarian and non-political Theosophical Society as it was given in 1875-1891. It seems however that we forget that the Esoteric Section created by Blavatsky was created to secure that the Theosophical Society would be kept intact, and not become sectarian. This however seem to have failed from 1910-1945 or so, and even later to a certain extend. The fact is, as the history of time shows us - organisations come and go in the physical. But the ancient teachings on organisational non-conditioning cannot be kept down in the present time, so are as I see it the decree by Orlog and answer by Skuld, - ie. the Law of Karma. To you not think so Jeremy?

But Alice A. Bailey overstep herself and writes:
"So in 1923 we started a school that was non-doctrinal, [198] non-sectarian and based on the Ageless Wisdom that has come down to us from the very night of time. "
(Autobiography of Alice A. Bailey, Page 197-198)

Very good!
But, we must wonder why it is important to answer whether one has read the books by Alice A. Bailey when sending the application-form at the Lucis Trust website, when it is calling itself non-sectarian and non-doctrinal???
(Se here for London, but also for New York and Geneva: http://www.lucistrust.org/en/form_objects/request_for_application_londonv )
Not to talk about all the other issues I have mentioned in the above and in my recent posts here at Theos-talk.

There are simply too much info screaming sectarian behaviour on Lucis Trusts website, if one ask me.
But I will agree upon, that some persons might be lead towards an understanding of the teachings given by Blavatsky by reading the Alice A. Bailey books. However, I find also that many will waste their time by reading so many pages while being kept down in a Christianized mind-set, which are so prevalent in those books. And by sitting shouting the Great Invocation in an atavistic manner - killing self-reliance.

Is this not the truth?

__________________


### 2 ####


Jeremy wrote:
"It is non Political insofar as it does not promote one party over another or take part in contempary party politics. It is working for right human relations and the spreading of goodwill and cooperates with those who also work for the same in so far as they are able, no matter what party political persuasion they may or may not personally have. Students are not accepted according to political leanings and personal politics are not entered into. 

The UN is seen as the best chance humanity has of discussing or resolving international problems. Whether it works or has corruption has no bearing on the overall objective of seeking world harmony. This is a ideal to work towards and may as yet be imperfect as so much in life is today or ever has been. Right human relations are worked towards and this is the philosophy of the teachings."

M. Sufilight says:
As for not being accepted with regard to political leanings. I wonder whether most members are from Middle Eastern countries? No? But, India then? No? And you do never wonder why?

Also, you did not clearly address my previous post, where Krishnamurti clearly said that political world organisations will not solve such problems. Psychological change is of primary importance. I cannot see the importance in supporting the United Nations as long as it so very heavily is based on egotism. I will question you to tell me the opposite.

Some years back I also thought that United Nations was the big thing. I do not think so today, and with good reason.

IMPORTANT
The following is very very important. --- When the United Nations will address the science on Psychology and the science on Subtle Mind Control and openly admit that it exists - and that these sciences is of primary importance to be taught humanity - if we want to create peace on this planet --- instead of formulating intergovernmental legislation and conventions (and the many continous condemnations or express of sorrow by the various Chairs in the various UN Programes)- merely conditioning the individual --- then I might listen much more! 
Do you understand me Jeremy? Other readers?

J. Krishnamurti clearly pointed his finger at this in the link in the previous post where I quoted him. The Dalai Lama and others seem alson increasingly ton understand this issue. And members of the Theosophical Society was wisely aware of it in 1875-1891. That was why the TS back then did not meddle with politics. I do hope you better understand it all now.

And to support the United Nations with the view that it "is seen as the best chance humanity has of discussing or resolving international problems". I will clearly say. No it is not. The best place is the place where emphasis is on non-sectarian and non-political exchanges - based on the promotion of altruism --- and --- if I may add also the promotion of the science on Psychology, with the science on Subtle Mind Control included, non-spiritually as well as spiritually. - Because to promote altruism - psychological change will have to promoted as important in our time, where the science of psychology and the science of Subtle Mind Control included, non-spiritually as well as spiritually - are recognized in society as such (!!!)
These are important difference in the point of view I have and I guess quite a number of Alice A. Bailey followers - who make it an important article to support the United Nations. - We also as a result of Lucis Trust's promotion of support for the United Nations experience - one Alice A. Bailey offshoot group after the other write books in favor of this or that political leader on the global stage. - The results which are stemming from Lucis Trust, seem problematic as far as I am concerned. 




All the above are of course just my views. I do not claim myself infallible as a "pope" or similar
I do hope that at least some of it will be useful for something altruistic and good.



M. Sufilight



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jeremy Condick 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2011 1:33 AM
  Subject: RE: theos-talk Subtle Psychological Keys - Sectarianism or Politics in Lucist Trust and TS?


    

  "If an organisation are having a leader or a group of leaders (often with its own leader as well) - who forwards a doctrine or teachings given by one single author or just a uniform doctrine - ON BEHALF OF THE MEMBERS - of its organisation - then we are in truth talking about a sectarian organisation." 

  JPC: The Lucis Trust offers study of a number of books. Namely, The Alice Bailey books, The Secret Doctrine, Isis Unveiled and other theosophical material, and the books of Helena Roerich' Agni Yoga. There is an extensive lending library of miscellaneous old and hard to find books by numerous authors, and also a continuous study of other authors works more contempary relating to science, philosophy and other subjects. The scope is very extensive indeed and does not adhere to one single author. 

  It is non Political insofar as it does not promote one party over another or take part in contempary party politics. It is working for right human relations and the spreading of goodwill and cooperates with those who also work for the same in so far as they are able, no matter what party political persuasion they may or may not personally have. Students are not accepted according to political leanings and personal politics are not entered into. 

  The UN is seen as the best chance humanity has of discussing or resolving international problems. Whether it works or has corruption has no bearing on the overall objective of seeking world harmony. This is a ideal to work towards and may as yet be imperfect as so much in life is today or ever has been. Right human relations are worked towards and this is the philosophy of the teachings. 

  > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
  > From: global-theosophy@4wBAEv5-tOvhc-7NLhufQYWvUB4kkZaH2U0WAn85DSFiBTKVUv7Vo9XXucsLzqrwMERkDujcaWGdPm01z6axymsk5w.yahoo.invalid
  > Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 22:19:22 +0200
  > Subject: theos-talk Subtle Psychological Keys - Sectarianism or Politics in Lucist Trust and TS?
  > 
  > Dear friends
  > 
  > My views are:
  > 
  > Sorry about this lengthy relpy. But It seems from where I stand important to cover the subject as clearly as possible without writing a whole book about it.
  > 
  > Now as a Seeker after Truth and Wisdom and seeking to promote altruism, I often seek comparative studying so to avoid a narrowminded or sectarian out-look upon life.
  > And I am also in the below seeking to show some of the problems and issues so to speak which our present time year 2011 are facing compared with the past with regard to the non-sectarian Theosophical Society as it was given in 1875-1891, and before it changed and became more or less sectarian after the year 1910. My study will focus on whether the Theosophical Society as it was given in 1875-1891 was political or sectarian - and - on whether the very widespread esoteric mother-organisation Lucis Trust behind the Alice A. Bailey followers are sectarian or non-sectarian, as well as political or non-political in their activities.
  > I do this because there seem to be a great deal of confusion with regard to how the word "sectarian" is defined and what it implies or can imply. Other definitions than the one given by me in the below might be useful. But I seek to stick to the present day scientists and their definition of the word "sectarian". And this I think cannot be unimportant. Further it is also well-known that the word "political" have many definitions attached to it. I do hope however that my words in the below are sufficient to cover the aspects involved in the presentation I have forwarded.


  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]