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Re: theos-talk RE; politics and various Quests of the ION

Oct 23, 2011 11:49 AM
by John W

"The five good Roman Emperors, including Hadrian." These would presumably be Nerva, Hadrian, Trajan, Marcus Aurelius, and Antoninus Pius, who ruled from about 64 to 180, after which the Roman Empire reverted to persecution of religious and other minorities (such as Christians) and rampant corruption and brutality. The most notable of their writings is Marcus Aurelius' "Meditations", of which I have a copy. However, none of their other writings are well-known.

But in spite of them, the Roman Empire was the original Fascist state, which Mussolini sought to emulate from the 1920s to WW2, with ultimately disastrous results.

John W.

--- On Sun, 23/10/11, libertyson11 <> wrote:
From: libertyson11 <>
Subject: theos-talk RE; politics and various Quests of the ION
Date: Sunday, 23, October, 2011, 6:06 PM




SUFI-LIGHT and all Altruistic Hearts

My views on a lot of the words of HPB regarding politics are that she writes from an enflamed pen.  She is impassioned and a fire-brand, starting fires wherever her mind gazes, empowered from Above. 

I have seen several others of such an approach, and they can indeed move people. 

However, she rather departs sometimes from the middle way. 

She gives a seemingly universal statement that "prayer causes less self-initiative", and then refers to praying "Not my will but thine be done" to the Highest as valuable. 

She diatribes about politics casting a universal disgust upon them all, and then comments about how M works with politicians and Olcott advocated religious impulses be merged with politics. But then Christ ministered to the tax collectors and prosititutes and supped with them.

Basically we are dealing with taking things out of context, except the context in this case requires a very great reading of the works of HPB and all. 

One man says "politics" and refers to party-line power mongering, another hears "statesmanship".

To introduce altruism in political discourse is actually often done, it is just that people have different views on how it is applied. 

In abortion, many think they are being compassionate toward a woman to allow abortions.  Others think that they are being altruistic toward the unborn to forbid it. 

Same with drug legalization. 

Same with welfare support programs. Is it altruistic to make a man stand on his own, or to give him money so he doesn't starve to death or go into crime?  Does that make him weak?

Altruism could b fleshed out and made conscious as the central motivating factor and guide for decisions, instead of being a hidden motive.

"Mr. Minister of State, does it seem to the gentleman that the issue at hand exemplifies altruistic principles, or is it rather the unbridled lust of a faction among us that would drain the body politic of it resources in selfish pursuit of its own small visioned goals?

Those are some first thoughts. 

"*** There have many great political leaders in history whose actions expressed

altruism at times. "

M. Sufilight says:


**** Ah, but let us beware of the discussions of who has been altruisitically oriented, for the "facts" each of use bring to the table are often different, and we might fight over nothing. 

But at my peril, let me list some. 

John Adams, and John Quincy Adams 

Andrew Jackson, for say what you will of various ruelties, he stood for the brothers and sisters of humanity against the Bank and the Banksters, the greatest enemy of Man. 

It is easy to list the founding fathers of America. George Wythe unassailably. [Mentor of Jefferson and an exemplary spirit in law and statesmanship.]

I would include Lincoln, Sam Houston, Simone Bolivar.

If they were assassinated they were a good candidate for this list. 

Read the Lives of Plutarch and a few stand out. 

The five good Roman Emperors, including Hadrian.

The Duke of Chou of ancient China. 

M. Sufilight says:


And was that not all in all just superficial Altruism, when you consider it? And

consider the murders, the man-made laws - seeking to by-pass the law of Karma,

the prisons the police and all the sectarian manouvres and spin?

***  It is quite easy to cast stones upon historical figures operating under great burdens. 

I guess I would caution you to consider the value of not being quite so strongly opinioned about history. 

It is fashionable to cast all of history, all church history, all the history of Western Civilization, in a disparaging light and view.  I don't think you will win as many to the cause of altruism by continually emphasizing the negatives of history or what might seem so to present day minds. 

People respond to the heroes of history, and great deeds and words.  Casting all that doesn't correspond to perfect altruism as being unworthy of our veneration is not going to be very effective, methinks. 

In short, there have been countless heroic deeds in history. 

In looking at HPBs writings, it now seems to me that she was stating things over strongly, likely under the burden of her attempted smashing thru of the hypnotic veils of mediocrity upon the West, England, etc.   

One feels the power in her words and the great spirit at work.  But it is also easy to be swept away from a poised, altruistic heart centeredness from such writing. 

I pray for great blessing upon us and our world. And especially the blessing of increased self-initiative in Oneness, for all. 


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