Theos-Talk Archives (July 2011 Message tt00014)

Dear John  and friends

My views are:

Thank you for answering.

Sorry I did not formulate myself properly in the previous post it seems. I was primarily referring to the theories on tectonic plates with regard to the theory on Continental drift.
The plate tectonic theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_tectonics ) + Continental drift theories are only valid so far, as it can be documented. But if one take the time to find the right articles on the Internet and in books, it will be seen that various scientists find them to be flawed with respect to the theory and the movement of the plates when taken over long periods of time. Recent events seem to show this claim is not quite invalid, and that the theory about movements does not quite fit with cataclysms of the past, which have been measured by scientific research of the surface of the Earth in the sea and on land.
There are the factors of outer space comets making impacts on the planets surface. The fact of heat from the Sun and greenhouse warming etc., should be taken into account. And the plates do break and merge from time to time, although it is not recognized by science very much. And seen from a theosophical point of view, it seems odd that the planets surface should'nt be subjected to the Law of Karma, does it not?

So the plates are there, yes. The theories are there, yes. And they can be confirmed very much, yes. But, they are not telling the whole truth about what is going on. This must be a fact, and can even be proven if present day science would listen to those few scientists, who say so. Blavatsky was referring a bit to it when she mentioned something about cataclysms of the past somewhere in the Secret Doctrine, Vol II. Well if my memory do not fail me. I can look it up, if needed.


John wrote:
"About the Moon hiding a planet, or being hid by another planet. It is simply untrue as far as any physical reality is concerned. The Symbol of Islam is the New Moon Crescent conjunct with the Planet Venus historically. That can be seen on a regular basis from time to time. But, the Moon itself is never more than 240,000 miles from the Earth and no Planet is any where near the Earth in the physical term, both Venus and Mars are tens of millions of miles distant even at their closest orbital approach. The Planet Uranus (Uranus translates as "Heaven" ) is over 1 billion miles from the Moon and the Earth, sorry, but Bailey and others were poor in knowledge of real Astronomy apparently. None of our planets when conjunct to the moon are large enough to obscure any significant area of our moon much less hide it from anyone because they must pass behind the moon, it is impossible for any of them to pass in front of our moon ."

M. Sufilight says:
I think you misunderstand, what Blavatsky was referring to, and what I was trying to forward. The Planet hidden behind the Moon, is seen nearby it from earth. That does not imply that the moon is near the planet in distance, when it is seen. It implies that the eye see it like that, see it nearby the moon. The same with Alice A. Bailey's thoughts about the Moon. Uranus is one of the more obvious candidates, because of the various myth connected with the name Uranus in the ancient Greck mythology, and other mythologies corresponding to the Greck myth about Uranus. This is my view. But, again I find it difficult to support the AAB view, because Blavatsky said that Uranus was no sacred planet, and the planet "hiding" behind the Moon has to be a sacred planet according to Blavatsky in the Secret Doctrine vol. I, p. 575 + footnote.

A minor excerpt from that page says:
......."It is then the "Seven Sons of Light"âcalled after their planets and (by the rabble) often identified with themânamely Saturn, Jupiter, Mercury, Mars, Venus, andâpresumably for the modern critic, who goes no deeper than the surface of old religions *âthe Sun and Moon, which are, according to the Occult teachings, our heavenly Parents, or "Father," synthetically. Hence, as already remarked, polytheism is really more philosophical and correct, as to fact and nature, than anthropomorphic monotheism.  Saturn, Jupiter, Mercury, and Venus, the four exoteric planets, and the three others, which must remain unnamed, were the heavenly bodies in direct astral and psychic communication with the Earth, its Guides, and Watchers"
.......
"In order to avoid creating new misconceptions, let it be stated that among the three secret orbs (or star-angels) neither Uranus nor Neptune entered; not only because they were unknown under these names to the ancient Sages, but because they, as all other planets, however many there may be, are the gods and guardians of other septenary chains of globes within our systems."
.......
[FOOTNOTE] 
"Neither the earth nor the moonâits satelliteânor yet stars, for another reasonâwere anything else than substitutes for esoteric purposes. Yet, even with the Sun and the Moon thrown out of the calculation, the ancients seem to have known of seven planets. How many more are known to us, so far, if we throw out the Earth and Moon? Seven, and no more: Seven primary or principal planets, the rest planetoids rather than planets." 

Which were these three unnamed planets if not Mars, Vulcan (ordinarily named the Sun)  and the one hiding under the name of the Moon?


...... The Seven Sons of Light being the Dhyani-Buddhas (the same as Kumaras and Dhyan Chohans) p,. 572 ......Also on same page: "The star under which a human Entity is born, says the Occult teaching, will remain for ever its star, throughout the whole cycle of its incarnations in one Manvantara. But this is not his astrological star. The latter is concerned and connected with the personality, the former with the INDIVIDUALITY.".....therefore I say, that there cannot be any human astronomy or astrology without taking the Law of Karms into account. --- http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/SDVolume_I.htm

So the Seven Planets (The Seven Sons of Light) with the seven Dhyan Chohans (Kumaras) are karmically influencing humanity and earth. The other outer planets are barely doing so says Blavatsky. (Se Secret Doctrine, vol. I, p. 575, and also p. 102, footnote (!) on Netpune and Uranus. And Pluto is no planet it is said today. --- Se also importantly BCW, Vol. XIV, p. 227-228 --- http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v14/ph_058.htm)



So I see no reason to support the claim made by modern astrologists that Neptune has any major karmic influence on the planet Earth and its inhabitants (and neither Uranus) --- only the 7 sacred planets have - and - in accordance with the Law of Karma.


John asked:
"Could the reason be that the ancients didn't know about the "Planet" later men named "Uranus" using and an ancient ( temple) word which in ancient times meant "Heaven"? "

M. Sufilight says:
No, not in the sense I understand your question. Because according to Blavatsky as I have pointed out in the above references to the Secret Doctrine, Uranus was given a secondary influence on humanity and the planet Earth karmically speaking.
The ancients did not know, but the initiates knew.

John asked:
"As far as "Atlantis Astronomy" as far as I know there aren't any real records in any physical form that any one possesses anywhere even if they do say Asuramaya where is the proof ? Where is one real record that has been seen by science?" 


***** Answer to Question 1 *****
This one is said to be a copy from Asuramayas calendar-teachings:

Surya-Siddhanta (translated 1861) - online --- there are other versions!!!
(See chapter one, the work claim to date from the Krita Yuga (same as Satya Yuga)
http://www.wilbourhall.org/pdfs/suryaEnglish.pdf

Also Surya-Siddhanta and a number of Sanskrit works as well:
http://www.wilbourhall.org/index.html#SS

Yuga in Wikipedia
(Krita Yuga ended about 2,1 million years ago!!!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuga

This is the proof to consider. It might be false it might be true.
But since we know as a fact, that the Calendars given in this work said to be from Asuramaya and related works, are so precise, that this calendar gave a rule for measuring the Solar year precisely, and that the formula without using the so-called Bija corrections - only deviated from NASA's present day number by 1.4 seconds! --- the work and its related works aught to be given at least some credit. Especially also since this work has been known for many centuries even before 1875.
And this make me not just like that reject the theory on Asuramaya lived 2.1 million years ago. And my own inner experiences of the Akasha records (no matter how imprecise they might be) make me seriously consider this as a real possibility.

- - - - - - -
Se also:
Planetary Diameters in the Surya-Siddhanta
"Abstract -This paper discusses a rule given in the Indian astronomical text
Surya-siddhanta for computing the angular diameters of the planets. By combining
these angular diameters with the circumferences of the planetary orbits
listed in this text, it is possible to compute the diameters of the planets.
When these computations are carried out, the results agree surprisingly well
with modern astronomical data. Several possible explanations for this are discussed,
and it is hypothesized that the angular diameter rule in the Surya-siddhanta
may be based on advanced astronomical knowledge that was developed
in ancient times but has now been largely forgotten."
http://www.scientificexploration.org/journal/jse_11_2_thompson.pdf


***** Answer to Question 2 *****
The Scientists are members of a multicultural group - and each scientists research is nearly always colored by hos cultural background, or his groups background, or greed etc. etc. It consists of Hindu and Buddhists scientists, which agree upon taking the cycles of the Maha-Manvantaras seriously. The Christian scientists do not taken anything like that seriously. The Islamic scientists have their views.  And other religions as well. And The non-believers have theirs. Each are creating a scientific point of view colored more or less by his or her religious or ideological background. Few are able to be free from bias in one or the other direction.
Just because the Westerners only hear what they themselves are saying in their major massmedias, it does not imply that they are right, does it?

No, there are no records, if the Western scientists says there are no records. And that is that. If the Eastern ones says, that there are reasons to take this seriously, because the ancient scriptures are fillled to the brim with stories - leading - to the conclusion that humanity is older than 4004 BC. and much older than 2 or 5 million years - why not take them seriously, from a scientific point of view? Why not?

But, what is proof in a world of Maya in a world where the rule seem to be, if you think it is the truth, it must be? People in general seem to say: Do not bother to try another angle of truth, because it might scare you.

Truth is knowledge without form, says the wiise ones.
I read the Akasha Records as far as I am able, and use my common sense, that is all.
And I do this while seeking to promote altruism.


These are my views.



M. Sufilight



  ----- Original Message ----- 
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  Morten, 
  Thanks for your comments and reply. As usual I have a view like this: 

  >>> The present day accepted theories about tectonic plates are being disputed even by several scientists (in India, China, USA, France etc.), but since they are not in the majority or among the most wellknown,<<< 

  Yes, I also have seen articles mentioning this view but I don't accept it either because well established concrete science has documented the plate tectonic theory both in theory and in actual reality. Go on Google Earth anytime and see the actual geologic features of the plates themselves. You need to zoom until you see the white arrows pointing at the plate divisions. You will also see the amount of millimeter "creep" and the direction of the movement which wil also tell you which plate is "side" is going over and which side is diving under the other. Go to Japan and look, you can see the deep trench and japan sitting 20,000 fett up on the land mass next to the trench itself which is where the plates are in action, these are also marked showing the direction and annual movements determined by real actual measurements of a vast telemetry at Japan and elsewhere over the world. This applies not just to water regions but also Plates like the San Andreas here in California where they slide over and under each other in extremely well documented and measured movements usually to relief built up forces. Google Earth is simply amazing for information! 

  As to Madame Blavatsky in her works she makes mention of Pandea or Gwandana Land wherein the very ancient above water land masses were together originally and gradually separated away like the surface of a balloon being blown up making it enlarge and causing the land seen to gradually cover the world regions after a vast period of time. This is due to plate tectonics. And is the original theory about plates which she states by way of her elucidations. 

  >>> Blavatsky says in the Transactions from the Blavatsky Lodge (p. 46-48), that the Sun and the Moon covered other planets. The Sun covered a planet named Vulcan (not discovered yet, despite Blavatsky's claims. Maybe it is etheric?) said to have an orbit near the Sun, an intra-mercurial planet. The Moon is covered by another planet, which sometimes can be seen near the Moon at night and has a retrograde motion. (Alice A. Bailey and others call it Uranus, but I am not at all sure about that. Because Blavatsky reject that Uranus is a sacred planet in the Secret Doctrine. But which planet in the solar system was retrograde at the time of the meeting in the Blavatsky Lodge in London in that year and month?) And elsewhere she says that this was known by the initiates in the old days, and not by all astronomers.<<< 

  Morten, in Blavatsky's day there were many unique claims made by lots of sincere people that due to "ignorance" people accepted, this is a "character" of the conditioned mind. Reality is not what one "fancies" or "desires" or "believes", Reality is the Truth. 

  About the Moon hiding a planet, or being hid by another planet. It is simply untrue as far as any physical reality is concerned. The Symbol of Islam is the New Moon Crescent conjunct with the Planet Venus historically. That can be seen on a regular basis from time to time. But, the Moon itself is never more than 240,000 miles from the Earth and no Planet is any where near the Earth in the physical term, both Venus and Mars are tens of millions of miles distant even at their closest orbital approach. The Planet Uranus (Uranus translates as "Heaven" ) is over 1 billion miles from the Moon and the Earth, sorry, but Bailey and others were poor in knowledge of real Astronomy apparently. None of our planets when conjunct to the moon are large enough to obscure any significant area of our moon much less hide it from anyone because they must pass behind the moon, it is impossible for any of them to pass in front of our moon . 

  >>>Because Blavatsky reject that Uranus is a sacred planet in the Secret Doctrine<<< 

  Could the reason be that the ancients didn't know about the "Planet" later men named "Uranus" using and an ancient ( temple) word which in ancient times meant "Heaven"? Uranus was first discovered in 1781 by Sir Willaim Herschel. When the Planet Neptune was discovered on Sept. 23rd, 1846 they appropiated the ancient word "Neptune" which in ancient times indicate the Lord of the Deep, Ruler of the Ocean and Seas, they also in ancient times did not know of a physical planet later men of our times named "Neptune", there is not relationship only a name taking. Pluto also they did the same thing when Clyde Tombaugh discovered what was later named Pluto in1930. pluto also was an ancient name that indicated the Lord of the Underworld and was used in certain Ancient Religions having nothing to do with any Planet. The great huge Gas Giants of our solar system were not known to the ancients, at least concerning the records of the last 10,000 years or so, where real physical cuniaform texts or other types indicate what they were watching in the heavens. The Romans , Greeks, Assyrians, Babylonians, Sumerians, Hittites, and all other historical cultures as far as they publically record in their records saw only the Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. 1 Sun (star), 1 Moon, and 5 Planets, they called the Planets "The Procession of the Gods" 

  I think you would enjoy seeing the Solar Observatory that we place 1 millions miles out in space name "SOHO". there you can become aware of our Sun and even watch moves of what activity takes place near it. Click on "The Sun Now", then click on "MPEG Movies", then click on "LASCO C2", and later "LASCO C3 and see the movies that show real reality of our Sun , you will sometimes be able to watch Planets of our solar system approach the sun and continue on, and may small astronomic objects also like comets that plunge in the sun from time to time and then see how the sun reacts. Here is the link: 

  >>>http://soho.nascom.nasa.gov/<<< 

  About the Planet Mercury - Messenger of the Gods. If you can locate this book "The Sirius Mystery" by K. G. Temple, 1976 go to page 124 and inspect the illustration there which shows the erratic orbit of mercury and the ancient Terra cotta "mask' depicting the wild paths of Mercury's orbit by "Hawawa (Humbara), this is precisely why the ancients called mercury the messenger--- because he was always going in strange directions to give messages to various people or places lol. BTW, The Sirius Mystery has deep exploration the the secret knowledge of the Dogon of Africa, the authors spent many years with the Dogon. 

  As far as "Atlantis Astronomy" as far as I know there aren't any real records in any physical form that any one possesses anywhere even if they do say Asuramaya where is the proof ? Where is one real record that has been seen by science? Allusions are allusions and will remain so until something or someone presents real tangible record to be evaluated. Tell me where one physical record is if you know, I would love to see it myself and many others would. 

  The Planet Vulcan 

  >>>ttp://members.tripod.com/Tony_Sakalauskas/index-2.html<<< 

  Vulcan (hypothetical planet) 

  >>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulcan_(hypothetical_planet)<<< 

  Fictional Planets of the solar system 

  >>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictional_planets_of_the_Solar_System#Pha.C3.ABton<<< 

  Neptune 

  >>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neptune<<< 

  Regards, 
  John 

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "M. Sufilight" <global-theosophy@OByneOuerc5WJklsF-jArQwcdq4WcqAde4oB8VXJhAuQHKBJMJH-CiQzg5AWXANsL4doca7c-t_OZ6PlhCIPj7Cc.yahoo.invalid> 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2011 8:33:31 AM 
  Subject: Re: theos-talk Fw: [CosmicCookies] 110623 

  Hej John and friends 

  My views are: 

  I almost forgot your post... Here are a few words to consider. 
  Other readers might have something to add. 

  About Japan: The present day accepted theories about tectonic plates are being disputed even by several scientists (in India, China, USA, France etc.), but since they are not in the majority or among the most wellknown, we do not hear about it much. H. P. Blavatsky's words in the Secret Doctrine can clearly not be said to be in agreement with these ideas about the tectonic plates. 

  Yes, the Mayan Calendar alignment with the galaxy is a bit false. Even NASA says so. But NASA also says, that there already for several years have been an alignment in a certain sense. 
  Se these articles by NASA and search "Galaxy": 

  2012: Beginning of the End or Why the World Won't End? 
  http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2012.html 

  The Great 2012 Doomsday Scare 
  http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2012-guest.html 

  Yes. Blavatsky says in the Transactions from the Blavatsky Lodge (p. 46-48), that the Sun and the Moon covered other planets. The Sun covered a planet named Vulcan (not discovered yet, despite Blavatsky's claims. Maybe it is etheric?) said to have an orbit near the Sun, an intra-mercurial planet. The Moon is covered by another planet, which sometimes can be seen near the Moon at night and has a retrograde motion. (Alice A. Bailey and others call it Uranus, but I am not at all sure about that. Because Blavatsky reject that Uranus is a sacred planet in the Secret Doctrine. But which planet in the solar system was retrograde at the time of the meeting in the Blavatsky Lodge in London in that year and month?) And elsewhere she says that this was known by the initiates in the old days, and not by all astronomers. 
  Yet, I wonder about whether some of the oldest of the ancient calendars by Asuramaya was not using esoteric symbols and the 7 keys to the mystery language, the so-called Bija corrections. 

  _______________________________________________________ 

  A very interesting article is available on the Internet. I wonder whether its author - Vigyan Prasar - know more than he reveals about Asuramayas calendar? 

  Chinthamani Ragoonathachary and Secularisation of Time 
  During the Late Nineteenth Century Madras Presidency 
  Venkateswaran T. V. 
  Vigyan Prasar, New Delhi, India 

  "Chintamani Ragoonathachary, a ânativeâ astronomer took 
  the initiative to modify and publish a new Panchang (almanac) 
  and thereby produced a change in the calanderical 
  system followed in the Tamil region. Inspired by the modern 
  astronomy, this effort towards modernization of Panchang 
  is an effort towards secularization of time. To engender 
  reform he utilized popularization of astronomy. It is argued 
  that this project of modernization by Chinthamani 
  Ragoonathachari is not a colonial project but a project of 
  ânativeâ elites to secularizing time in Tamil with the aim of 
  meeting the needs of modern industrial society." 
  ....... 
  "Chintamani Ragoonathachary was an assistant to Norman 
  Pogson, the British Government Astronomer and head of 
  the Madras Observatory from 1861-1891. Then the focus 
  of the observatory was the study of variable stars and asteroids." 
  ....... 
  "The Panchangs are prepared not based on careful observations 
  but based upon âformulasâ handed down by ancient 
  founding astronomers/ astrologers (Like Aryabhata, 
  Bhaskara, Varahamihira, etc). As suggested by the founder 
  of the Siddhantha school (Say Aryabhata or Brahmagupta), 
  certain corrections are made to the results obtained by applying 
  the formula (called Bija) to get the âtrueâ position. 
  There are two classes of almanacs in use; one called 
  Siddhantha Panchang and the other Drigganitta Panchang. 
  Another type, more prevalent in Southern India, Vakya 
  Panchang, is a type of Siddantha Panchang based upon 
  Siddhantha of Aryabhata with certain corrections (Bija) as 
  the basis. Most of the Tamil region followed Vakya 
  Panchang. Vakya means group of words, and as mnemonics, 
  letters of the word representing numbers." 
  ....... 
  "During the 1880s, Native public opinion, a daily published 
  from Madras was abuzz with letters from its readers on the 
  debate. Traditional Panchang computers, native personalities 
  of public standing and many others recorded their view 
  on the subject. Some argued that Ragoonathacharyâs 
  Drigganitha Panchang is good only for predicting eclipses 
  precisely, but is yet to be proved suitable for calculating 
  tithi, nakshatra and so on. Few others stated that 
  Ragoonathacharyaâs Drig is complete in all respects, others 
  stated that Drig system has no authority of established 
  works of Rishis and hence this modern method could not 
  be accepted. A section argued that while Drig is useful for 
  actual observation of eclipses and so on, they doubted its 
  utility with respect to religious rites and rituals or for computing 
  astrological predictions. One of the clinching facts 
  that turned the tide was the computation by Ragoonathachary 
  of the 1868 total solar eclipse. While the prediction of the 
  August 18, 1868 eclipse by Ragoonathachari was with an 
  error of about 12 seconds, the error factor of even the best 
  of Siddhantis was about 24 minutes." 
  ....... 
  "By winning over religious sects, engaging in public debates, 
  organizing public events, publishing popular books accessible 
  to the lay reader, Ragoonathachary was able to make a 
  dent in the public opinion and could garner acceptance for 
  the need to changeover. In fact it is noteworthy that the 
  colonial government issued its order on the calendar 
  standardisation only in 1878, well after the major religious 
  sects accepted the Drig system." 
  http://web.gnowledge.org/episteme3/pro_pdfs/04-tvv.pdf 

  H. P: Blavatsky was very well aware of what went on in Madras in these days also before 1879, and this can be seen from the below words. 

  Chinthamani Ragoonathachary was mentioned briefly in the Secret Doctrine by H. P. Blavatsky, Vol. II, p. 50-51 footnote also, see also footnote on p. 68. 
  "From fragments of immensely old works attributed to the Atlantean astronomer, and found in Southern India, the calendar elsewhere men-tioned was compiled by two very learned Brahmins* in 1884 and 1885. The work is proclaimed by the best Pundits as faultless â from the Brahmanical standpoint â and thus far relates to the chronology of the orthodox teachings." 

  [FOOTNOTE] 
  "The "Tirukkanda Panchanga" for the Kali Yug 4986, by Chintamany Raghanaracharya, son of the famous Government astronomer of Madras, and Tartakamala Venkata Krishna Rao." 
  http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/SDVolume2.htm 

  The above are just my views. 
  I do hope, that you might be able to use it for something good. 

  ____________ 

  A sidenote: 
  I just saw the fllowing video by David Reigle: 
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBfqraGndG8 

  David Reigle here forwards the views which he also had stated in his 1991 article, ( http://www.easterntradition.org/dk%20and%20kalachakra.pdf ) ---- namely that the much of the content in the five Alice A. Bailey books (Esoteric Psychology I, Esoteric Psychology II, Esoteric Astrology, Esoteric Healing, Rays and Initiations) are to be found in the EXOTERIC Kalachakra Tantra (ie. the exoteric - the outer Dzyan Stanzas with many blinds and errors, See BCW, Vol. XIV, p. 422-423) - in the Intro, chapter 1, 2, 3. Chapter 4 + 5 are esoteric in content, and chapter 5 heavy esoteric and perhaps only understood somewhat by a few handfuls of Buddhist today (officially). And the chapters 4 + 5 in the Kalachakra Tantras are not covered in the Alice A. Bailey books in the officially known EXOTERIC Kalachakra Tantras. This is what I got. 

  So this is just showing me, that the Alice A. Bailey books are on not on a very high level esoterically speaking. 

  M. Sufilight 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
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  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 8:44 PM 
  Subject: Re: theos-talk Fw: [CosmicCookies] 110623 

  Cass, Morten, 
  Weeeeeell, I have tiny disagreement about Japan sinking under the ocean. Japan is sitting on top of another subduction plate which is diving under Japan and raising Japan. The only sinking I saw was due to the Huge Quake and it's Tsunami which inundation small regions of the coast line but not 99 % of Japan and the areac near the coast where in a small depth relaitive to the size and mass above water of Japan were made so sink due to "Multifaction" causing the soil to separate and liquify and sink in relatively small regions of the coast near the Quakes epicenter. I recommend taking a peek using Google Earth, there are KML application on Google to see the features that happened. 

  About the 2012 Maya Calendar Alignment with the Galaxy Center it actually is not aligned to the center of our Galaxy but misses it by 7 degree's to the west., the significance is about it happening on the Winter Solstice for the Northern Hemisphere and it won't happen on the Winter Solstice again in the triple "Sun-Earth- Galactic Center-Winter Solstice" Alignment for another Great year of 25920 years. Also you know when you read about the Mayan Calendar it is all about the the Sun-Earth- Venus- Galaxy relationship and they don't seem to indicate any stars involved in the alignment. The 260 day cycle is about Venus rather than a star. 

  Ancient Civilizations did not have knowledge of Uranus, Neptune, Pluto at all Astronomically, they mentioned "7" Planets but included the Sun and Earth's Moon as "planets" when they are not planets in any sense. They added the Sun and Moon (2 0f the 7 ) to Mercury, Mars, Venus, Jupiter, and Saturn (the other 5 of the 7). This means that they could not had an Astrology based on Modern Astrology that includes the use of all the recently discovered Planets of Uranus, Neptune and Pluto in addition to the ancient planets so-called. The Minor "vagabonds" of Vulcan, Phaeton and another had not a regularity to them even as objects that can be sighted with for any consistent use in astrology, augury, or even astronomy, they are interesting and stimulating to wonder abou,t but not much more can be had to know due to their long absence. 

  Here are a couple of links to review it all: 

  The Actual Astronomy of 2012 --- an essay by Thomas Rezzato 

  >>> http://www.infinitelymystical.com/essays/2012-astronomy.html <<< 

  and the Video for it 

  >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGPcjMe6Qlw&feature=related <<< 

  About the discussion on Astrology, here is a link about "Sephariel" the famous Astrologer who was a personal friend of Madame Blavatsky and a Member of her Group name in true life Walter Old who Blavatsky lovingly called "That Astral Tramp" because he roamed in his astral body around the house they both lived in at night . 

  Sepharial's Kaleidoscope, the collection of Walter Old's Magazine series whein he published many secrets he was unwilling to put in Books he wrote that had permanent shelf lives. There is a neat Biography of him also. 

  >>> http://www.sacredscience.com/archive/Sepharial-Kaleidoscope.htm <<< 

  Here is a page with many useful Maya Links 

  >>> http://www.mayan-calendar.com/links.html <<< 

  Also a little enjoyment a kitty on a boat at sea meets the Dolphins and falls in love with them and even signs to the Dolphins that he/she is now "yours" .The Doplhins is so happen to own a cat he goes and gets other Dolphins to show them his new property lol! 

  >>> http://www.wimp.com/catdolphins/ <<< 

  Enjoy, 
  John 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "M. Sufilight" < global-theosophy@OByneOuerc5WJklsF-jArQwcdq4WcqAde4oB8VXJhAuQHKBJMJH-CiQzg5AWXANsL4doca7c-t_OZ6PlhCIPj7Cc.yahoo.invalid > 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 11:47:39 PM 
  Subject: Re: theos-talk Fw: [CosmicCookies] 110623 

  Dear Cass and friends 

  My views are: 

  Perhaps. But in the previous post you wrote: 

  "----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Cass Silva 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 2:03 AM 
  Subject: Re: theos-talk Fw: [CosmicCookies] 110623 

  If you guys aren't aware of the disturbing and changing weather patterns that are occuring at the moment you must be residing in Plato's cave. Things are changing, Blavatsky was right, Japan, as she predicted, would be under water. Whether it is coincidence that these events are occuring as we approach the Mayan 2012 calendar or if this is another minor cycle we can only guess at, but what cannot be disregarded is the fact that mother nature is addressing an imbalance." 

  M. Sufilight says: 
  Now you tell me, that you are only referring to astronomy and not astrology in the above? 
  The above from you might be viewed as astronomy - but it is as I read it clearly Astrological in content. 

  I am aware of that you later in the next posts were referring to astronomy, but I also dealt with that in my posts to you. 
  When I am not rejecting the science of Astrology, I will of course not reject the science on Astronomy. 

  But let is just talk about astronomy while we talk about predicting events like 2012 and full-moon events, if that is better to you. Okay? 

  - - - 
  Cass wrote: 
  "Perhaps you should ask yourself why did the Egyptians and why did the Mayans place so much energy into mapping the stars?" 

  M. Sufilight says: 
  Becase they knew about astronomy and astrology to a certain extend. I will refer to my previous e-mail. Because it seem to me that you did not read it carefully enough. 

  The big question to me is why you seem to reject the Law of Karma, while you talk about the influences the stars have on humanity? 
  Are you rejecting that the Law of Karma is closely related to astronomical influences from the Stars, and generate a psychological impact in humans, and thereby is related to Astrology? 

  M. Sufilight 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Cass Silva 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 2:23 AM 
  Subject: Re: theos-talk Fw: [CosmicCookies] 110623 

  Morten, 
  I am not talking about Astrology I am talking about Astronomy. The stars and planets effect us on a daily basis, their alignments bring about certain events in the world, all of which we are not as yet sure about. Certainly data is available to suggest that full moon events increase crime rates. Events in the stars present opportune times for the particular staging of world events. Perhaps you should ask yourself why did the Egyptians and why did the Mayans place so much energy into mapping the stars? 

  Cass 

  >________________________________ 
  >From: M. Sufilight < global-theosophy@OByneOuerc5WJklsF-jArQwcdq4WcqAde4oB8VXJhAuQHKBJMJH-CiQzg5AWXANsL4doca7c-t_OZ6PlhCIPj7Cc.yahoo.invalid > 
  >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  >Sent: Wednesday, 29 June 2011 4:55 PM 
  >Subject: Re: theos-talk Fw: [CosmicCookies] 110623 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  >Dear Cass and friends 
  > 
  >My views are: 
  > 
  >I think you misunderstood my questions, because I did not explain enough. 
  > 
  >Again ask yourself the following question: 
  >Why should any particular moment in the whole Universe be of more importance than another? 
  > 
  >And then consider the esoteric role you would like Astrology to have. 
  > 
  >I am not rejecting the science of astrology. I am merely saying that most soothsayers and astrologists are mistaken. And because many are saying that 2012 is important, it most likely is not in the sense they say it is. We have experienced this many times, and I sought to show this in the links I gave in one of the previous posts in this thread. 
  > 
  >What we are dealing with here is in a sense the old parable by Aesop: "The Wolf is coming". And it did not, and the boy laughed at the villagers. But then it suddenly came. 
  >And nobody laughed. 
  > 
  >So sometimes we all might get "lucky". But why waste time on something like that? 
  > 
  >To actually know, and to be wise as a true Astrological Mage, and be able to read the signs among the stars and the karmic patterns is a good thing. But to go and claim that this can be done without any knowledge about the karmic patterns is a stupid and foolish attempt upon the law of karma and humanity. There is no true Astrological knowledge without the ability to read karmic patterns - of the incarnations of humanity. 
  >And since most Astrologers are not dealing with this but with - Dead-Letter - interpretations, more or less, -- of anicent stone-carvings they are bound to fail. 
  > 
  >And no wise Astrologer invent and install fear in peoples minds, if this is not what they spiritually need - even - if they claim that this is what they want. 
  > 
  >Why invent and install fear in people, which is not already there? 
  > 
  >Now is the time. Not tomorrow, not next year, but right now, and always now. Past, present and future is experienced in the now, in the present moment. 
  > 
  >So Compassion is to tell people what is needed spiritually, in a given moment in time, and not always what we could tell them, even if it might be the truth. 
  > 
  >Let me reformulate and ask: 
  >Why, do you think, that we not are experiencing that the Masters come and tell everyone what will happen the next hundred years, down to the dot? 
  >Why did they not inform us all about terrorist events and various invasions, and environment disasters? 
  > 
  >Because, there is something called the Law of Karma. 
  > 
  >I do hope that this helped. 
  > 
  >M. Sufilight 
  > 
  >----- Original Message ----- 
  >From: Cass Silva 
  >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  >Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 3:26 AM 
  >Subject: Re: theos-talk Fw: [CosmicCookies] 110623 
  > 
  >We could start with the Pyramids, Stonehenge, etc. 
  >Cass 
  > 
  >>________________________________ 
  >>From: M. Sufilight < global-theosophy@OByneOuerc5WJklsF-jArQwcdq4WcqAde4oB8VXJhAuQHKBJMJH-CiQzg5AWXANsL4doca7c-t_OZ6PlhCIPj7Cc.yahoo.invalid > 
  >>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  >>Sent: Tuesday, 28 June 2011 3:52 PM 
  >>Subject: Re: theos-talk Fw: [CosmicCookies] 110623 
  >> 
  >> 
  >> 
  >>Dear Cass and friends 
  >> 
  >>My views are: 
  >> 
  >>I will ask...: 
  >>What kind of ancient astronomy are you referring to? 
  >>And what value aught it to be given and why? 
  >> 
  >>M. Sufilight 
  >> 
  >>----- Original Message ----- 
  >>From: Cass Silva 
  >>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  >>Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 3:31 AM 
  >>Subject: Re: theos-talk Fw: [CosmicCookies] 110623 
  >> 
  >>You are discounting ancient astronomy which was used to predict events. 
  >>Cass 
  >> 
  >>>________________________________ 
  >>>From: M. Sufilight < global-theosophy@OByneOuerc5WJklsF-jArQwcdq4WcqAde4oB8VXJhAuQHKBJMJH-CiQzg5AWXANsL4doca7c-t_OZ6PlhCIPj7Cc.yahoo.invalid > 
  >>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  >>>Sent: Monday, 27 June 2011 5:21 PM 
  >>>Subject: Re: theos-talk Fw: [CosmicCookies] 110623 
  >>> 
  >>> 
  >>> 
  >>>Dear Cass and friends 
  >>> 
  >>>My views are: 
  >>> 
  >>>Try this...and scroll down to year 1914 (Jehovahâs Witnesses), 1953 (David Davidson), 1982 (even NASA predicts), 1987 (Harmonic Convergence), 1996 (Sheldon Nidle) or so. 
  >>> 
  >>>Prediction Addiction Versus Prophecy: False Apocalyptic Dates 
  >>> http://appleofgodseye.wordpress.com/2009/03/26/prediction-addiction-versus-prophecy-false-apocalyptic-dates/ 
  >>> 
  >>>Library of Date Setters of 
  >>>The End of the World!!! 
  >>>Over 200 predictions and counting! 
  >>> http://www.bible.ca/pre-date-setters.htm 
  >>> 
  >>>Also but not mentioned in the above: 
  >>>Giant Rock with George Van Tassel and the Ashtar Command, and also Yvonne Cole 
  >>>"The Giant Rock Spacecraft Convention " 
  >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Van_Tassel 
  >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashtar_%28extraterrestrial_being%29 
  >>> 
  >>>The above links are in various respects the origin to the present day 2012 myths. 
  >>>People discovered that money could be earned and fame gained by pulling a stunt like this. 
  >>> 
  >>>My views are: 
  >>>To spend a huge amount of time on something like a prophecy - about what is called - "special events", is a waste of spiritual time. When you know, you know. When you make poems you make poems. When you seek to sell books, you seek to sell books. When you seek to earn money by this, you seek to earn money by it. When you seek fame or power by this, you seek fame or power by it. 
  >>> 
  >>>Yet some persons on this planet are like our wellknown Fox Mulder with his poster saying: "I Want to Believe!" 
  >>> http://www.whispermag.co.uk/siteimage/scale/0/0/28994.gif 
  >>> 
  >>>Smile. 
  >>> 
  >>>Just because a great number of persons buy the Christian Bible, it does not imply that the Bible primarily is good and healty for people to read. Does it? 
  >>>And just because most books (or almost) among the New Age groups these days have nervous break-down about the year 2012, it does not imply that they are right, does it? 
  >>> 
  >>>Ask yourself the following question: 
  >>>Why should any particular moment in the whole Universe be of more importance than another? 
  >>> 
  >>>I suggest that the 2012 prophets, Think carefully about this question. 
  >>> 
  >>>When you seek to - primarily - make people believe and not know, you seek to do just that. And I am one of those who will not bargin about this. 
  >>>I seek to help people to actually know based on actual facts, and, not through pseudo-scientific observations producing fear in peoples minds. 
  >>> 
  >>>Just a few views of mine. 
  >>> 
  >>>M. Sufilight 
  >>> 
  >>>----- Original Message ----- 
  >>>From: Cass Silva 
  >>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  >>>Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 2:03 AM 
  >>>Subject: Re: theos-talk Fw: [CosmicCookies] 110623 
  >>> 
  >>>If you guys aren't aware of the disturbing and changing weather patterns that are occuring at the moment you must be residing in Plato's cave. Things are changing, Blavatsky was right, Japan, as she predicted, would be under water. Whether it is coincidence that these events are occuring as we approach the Mayan 2012 calendar or if this is another minor cycle we can only guess at, but what cannot be disregarded is the fact that mother nature is addressing an imbalance. 
  >>> 
  >>>Cass 
  >>> 
  >>>>________________________________ 
  >>>>From: M. Sufilight < global-theosophy@OByneOuerc5WJklsF-jArQwcdq4WcqAde4oB8VXJhAuQHKBJMJH-CiQzg5AWXANsL4doca7c-t_OZ6PlhCIPj7Cc.yahoo.invalid > 
  >>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  >>>>Sent: Sunday, 26 June 2011 12:24 AM 
  >>>>Subject: Re: theos-talk Fw: [CosmicCookies] 110623 
  >>>> 
  >>>> 
  >>>> 
  >>>>A view: 
  >>>>Too little emphasis on the difference between Mind Control, secterian and non-secterian, as well as dogmatic versus non-docmatic --- and the actual difference between those terms as given in various dictionaries, wikipedia, and the ignorance about those terms and their actual differences among New Age seekers and even theosophical seekers. 
  >>>> 
  >>>>One could suggest that the purely scientific theories and hypothesises given by Tavistock Clinic (and similar) and the theories on "Flooding" (Pavlov's dogs) and the Manchurian Candidate, hypnosis theories (as given today), and also Mind Control (subtle persuasion techniques used by Leaders in Sects) could be compared with theosophical views and teachings on the same. 
  >>>> 
  >>>>M. Sufilight 
  >>>>----- Original Message ----- 
  >>>>From: Drpsionic@Ck9Yon2Kbpx3kdLBJzMLVSaVqR1YghcUau32AyPEngFNY4CWpzl4dQ2lZ3MuT2ZUuJGoQeH7XXw.yahoo.invalid 
  >>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  >>>>Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 5:14 PM 
  >>>>Subject: Re: theos-talk Fw: [CosmicCookies] 110623 
  >>>> 
  >>>>Balderdash and flapdoodle! 
  >>>> 
  >>>>Chuck the Heretic 
  >>>> 
  >>>>In a message dated 6/23/2011 8:42:55 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
  >>>> silva_cass@1DEa8MdKzVNzTaUgit8W7ZCRDAHPc_EH_mkpy53XxXqgl9KxudB5I0CdJzj3l30vSagGevPqSqY_47g.yahoo.invalid writes: 
  >>>> 
  >>>>Any comments? 
  >>>> 
  >>>>----- Forwarded Message ----- 
  >>>>>From: GT Eleven < _GT11@MWYBXnovqJNxPwtdxvJ45MXoX_qRTHuJSD7HIXSa84cDHOtPXVCfCsIH4yOEZYvdrbmX.yahoo.invalid _ (mailto: GT11@d419ySjqDq1wdsagyMlW9dNk4t1GC3b9yk4y7rzgO7TFIjrsZfTgyIpHlmkd5rS4TtFSQg.yahoo.invalid ) > 
  >>>>>To: _cosmiccookies@yahoogroups.com _ (mailto: cosmiccookies@yahoogroups.com ) 
  >>>>>Sent: Friday, 24 June 2011 12:13 AM 
  >>>>>Subject: [CosmicCookies] 110623 
  >>>>> 
  >>>>> 
  >>>>> 
  >>>>> 
  >>>>> 
  >>>>>Cookie Break... 
  >>>>>Cosmic Cookie 
  >>>>>228 
  >>>>> 
  >>>>>The Solar System and her Earth 
  >>>>>are rapidly approaching 
  >>>>>the End of a great Cosmic Cycle. 
  >>>>> 
  >>>>>The Matter oriented Human Race 
  >>>>>will terminate its Third Density Existence 
  >>>>>and a New Race of Mankind will prevail. 
  >>>>> 
  >>>>>The New Age Man and Woman 
  >>>>>will be detached from Material Possessions 
  >>>>>and will be involved 
  >>>>>in nurturing and living at peace with the Earth 
  >>>>>after a possible Pole Shift. 
  >>>>> 
  >>>>>New Land masses would arise 
  >>>>>and existing ones will disappear. 
  >>>>> 
  >>>>>Mankind on Earth will meet their Sky Brothers 
  >>>>>of which not all are Friendly. 
  >>>>> 
  >>>>>Some will arrive and try to dominate the World of Man. 
  >>>>>The present New World Order is preparing their arrival. 
  >>>>>Mother Earth will be a Fourth/Fifth Density Planet. 
  >>>>> 
  >>>>>THIRD DENSITY PEOPLE WILL INCARNATE ELSEWHERE 
  >>>>> 
  >>>>>Cosmic Cookies are loved world-wide since 1996/12/01 
  >>>>>You may share them with any List or Party. 
  >>>>>_ http://www.soulwise.net_ ( http://www.soulwise.net/ ) 
  >>>>> 
  >>>>> 
  >>>>> 
  >>>>> 
  >>>>> 
  >>>> 
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