Theos-Talk Archives (May 2011 Message tt00006)

Wonderful Katinka
You have personal evidence that thereÂis long standing difficulty between the 
Orlando Lodge and the TSA.ÂAll you need to do now is share that evidence with 
the rest of us so we will all know why things have come to this point between 
the Orlando Lodge and National.

You seem to offer the same vague information now without any clear facts that 
you have also done in the past here at theos-talk. HereÂare aÂfew comments you 
made dated March 12, 2010 with William Delahunts rebuttle and response.

ÂKATINKA STATES:
"ÂI agree this kind of thing is sad. I'm sure Betty herself would agree to
Âthat as well. But I also know that the Orlando lodge had their chance and aÂLOT 
of time to clean things up. Apparently they didn't.
ÂIt's the sad job of the national section to get rid of lodges like that"
". KATINKA STATES:
ÂBTW - even if I remembered the details, or bothered to look them up, I
Âstill don't think anything would be served by publishing them here. The only
Âresult would be for the members of that lodge to feel offended at being
Âouted publicly.
ÂIt would take a private online forum for that kind of openness to be fair
Âto all involved"

(DC).If I may take the liberty of speaking in defense ofÂthe Orlando lodge I 
think they are offended by the veil of secrecy that surrounds the attempt to 
discredit and take away their Charter and assets more than any other single 
factor.
Â
Your vague statements about privacy and who is being assaulted here is in 
reality an assault on the normal channels of litigation when any accused person 
or organization has a right to know what the charges are that are brought before 
them. This is common English law practiced around the world in the 21 Âcentury 
by all civilized societies. 

There is the law of the land and there is spiritual law and in my opinion if 
somebody does not come forward and clarify the charges against the Orlando Lodge 
this whole matter will go downÂin the annals of Theosophical history as a great 
travesty of justice. 

Â
This is equivalent of charging a man with murdering his wife but he actually 
didn't do it. And a neighbor who lives next door knows he could have done this 
evil deed because she was with him during the exact moment of the crime.
The neighbor never bothers to share this additional information because she does 
not want to put herself, her family or local community through this embarrassing 
situation. Great sentiment with good intensions except for only one small 
detail. This man may lose his life because no one has come forwardÂon his behalf 
with the correct information.
Â
Katinka your intensions are good but do they coincide or parallel with Âthe 
seriousness of what is taking place with the Orlando Lodge. Please find it in 
your heart and conscience to share your special knowledge in these matters with 
all of us.
Regretfully Duane Carpenter.

> From: t_s_theosophist <THEOSOPHIST@ webtv.net <THEOSOPHIST% 40webtv.net> >
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com <theos-talk% 40yahoogroups. com>
> Sent: Fri, March 12, 2010 1:36:30 AM
> Subject: Theos-World LETS CLARIFY THINGS KATINKA
>
>
>
>
> LETS CLARIFY THINGS KATINKA
>
> KATINKA STATES:
>
> The Orlando lodge has been in a quarrel with the USA section of the TS
> Adyar for years now.
>
> OUR RESPONSE:
>
> The Orlando Lodge has NOT been in a quarrel with the USA Section for years.
> We have quietly carried on a program of Quality Theosophical programs. We
> HAVE been Highly critical of Mrs. Blands deceptive
> electioneering tactics in the past Presidential election.
>
> KATINKA STATES:
>
> They are representing this as a surprise, but they contacted me a few years
> ago - and I contacted Betty back then. I don't remember the details, but I
> do remember that their story made much less sense than Betty's. The fact
> that
> they're playing as though this is a surprise is an indication that they're
> not being precisely fair and open.
>
> OUR RESPONSE:
>
> You can't remember Katinka, because we have NEVER contacted you. That is an
> outright LIE.At the time of the presidential election we posted a comment on
> your election website that is all. We have nothing to hide. The fact is that
> the TSA Board of Directors did NOT contact ANY of us. There was NO interview
> with our membership nor did they visit us. We have NOT violated ANY
> policies or T.S. Rules.
>
> KATINKA STATES:
>
> I agree this kind of thing is sad. I'm sure Betty herself would agree to
> that as well. But I also know that the Orlando lodge had their chance and a
> LOT of time to clean things up. Apparently they didn't.
> It's the sad job of the national section to get rid of lodges like that.
>
> OUR RESPONSE:
>
> You are basing your assumptions on the premise that there was "something to
> clean up" There was NOTHING to "clean up" and we had NO
> prior warnings or knowledge of anything amiss. Your innuendos with comments
> like these are just the thing that starts the gossip and rumor mills.
>
> KATINKA STATES:
>
> BTW - even if I remembered the details, or bothered to look them up, I
> still don't think anything would be served by publishing them here. The only
> result would be for the members of that lodge to feel offended at being
> outed publicly.
> It would take a private online forum for that kind of openness to be fair
> to all involved.
>
> OUR RESPONSE:
>
> We Challenge you Katinka to go ahead and "Look up your forgotten details."
> Because you don't have any from us. Lets see what you can fabricate.
>
> We are offended by the innuendos that you are promoting. We have NO
> fear of "Being oouted" for anything
> because we have NOTHING to be ashamed of. IF you want to make public
> statements about us however
> you had better have solid evidence and documentation. We Challenge YOu
> Katinka. The National Board of Directors of TSA. has NO documentation of
> fabricated allegations against us.
>
> Katinka we are surprised by your unbrotherly comments and innuendos
> you have judged us guilty without knowing anything factual.
>
> Fraternally;
>
> William Delahunt;
> Secretary,
> Orlando Lodge
> Theosophist@ webtv.net
> http://www.tso- orlando.org
>





________________________________
From: MKR <mkr777@YyORYJ_e73gB7F2zgkMASsQunWXMgt8Y0oYkR_OjOiBoNktkPdj3Dfko0_czPomT2FmnPpiyDeY9.yahoo.invalid>
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 10:13:06 AM
Subject: Re: theos-talk FIAT LUX "LET THERE BE LIGHT"

 
Glad to see the response.

In regard to the Orlando issue, there are certain problems.

Ordinary dues paying members in the United States like me, do not have any
information about the actual and specific violations alleged by the National
Board along with supporting facts and evidence so that any intelligent
member can look at them and either support the decision of the National
Board or do not agree with it.

Secondly, there is no explanation why no elected official of the Section
visited the lodge and personally inquired about the allegations and try to
discuss and resolve them so that the lodge which is 75 years old (many
lodges are short lived and one of the well known is downsizing as a study
center) can continue to function and spread theosophy in Orlando which is a
large city in Florida. This shows a clear lack of interest of the leadership
in fixing the alleged problems and keep the mission of theosophy alive in
Orlando. All one needs is to read the Old Diary Leaves to see how Olcott
personally dealt with lodge problems and expanded TS around the world.

Thirdly, shutting down of a lodge is a very very rare event in the history
of TS. In 1996, when the bylaws of the Section were revised, many well known
active members in the US, had misgivings about the issue of cancellation of
charter of lodges and members and this was addressed to the International
President by a very well known member in the American Section. In response,
the International President specifically pointed out that the cancellation
is a very rare event in 120 year history of the TS and that the decision of
the Section can be appealed to the International President. In the present
case, when the International President did not rubber stamp the decision in
spite of personal one-on-one followup by the National President, makes
members wonder if the allegations and the supporting documentation are not
solid or strong or credible.

Fourthly, the Federations in the United States are prohibited from
interfering in the autonomy of the lodges. So when the Federation officials
complained to the National Board as alleged, they should have been told that
it is none of their business. Allowing the Federations interfere in lodges
is a very serious matter in that they can be used as an excuse to closed
lodges and seize their property and money. Even in this case, but for the
valuable lodge property in such a key city as Orlando, there would have been
no attention paid to the lodge. For example, in San Antonio, Texas which is
the seventh largest city in the country, none of the of the elected
officials visited the lodge in a very long time probably because the lodge
does not own any real estate.

Fifthly, and perhaps most importantly, the credibility of current leadership
in the USA is very low in the minds of many members. It is due to the events
at the time of last international election when a serious attempt was made
to defeat the sitting president using the excuse that she is physically and
mentally sick even after three physicians from two continents opined
otherwise. This was followed by the unthinkable ill fated attempt to ultra
secretly disenfranchise all members in the international election and make
the president a puppet of the GC members. This attempt was initiated by the
National President.

Sixthly, the only way for the National Leadership to come out smelling like
a rose, is to bring full transparency to the whole affair by laying on the
table all the correspondence in the matter and supporting documented facts
and evidence. Transparency should not hurt anyone or any Section which
believes in âThere is no religion higher than Truthâ. Truth will triumph in
the long run, while it may hurt in the short run.

Let us hope the national leadership hurry up and resolve the issue quickly
for the good of the Section and Theosophy.

MKR

On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 2:24 AM, Spirituality <mail@aQ8CCxNrGBM5s0__80WAZoQfj84fumdJ0hiV5EDZwMg3dN2FbNM5VZG0cAskumKMhPEaqFH__uyINKnE-MAA.yahoo.invalid>wrote:

>
>
> I have personal evidence that there IS long standing difficulty between the
> Orlando Lodge and the TSA. The fact that the regional association (of
> Florida I think) supports the national headquarters on this issue is
> evidence to that as well.
>
> Katinka Hesselink
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "t_s_theosophist" <THEOSOPHIST@...>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > FIAT LUX "LET THERE BE LIGHT"
> >
> >
> >
> > The recent article in the April 11, 2011 issue of The Messenger by Jerome
> Michel concerning Orlando Lodge is another attempt to obfuscate and confuse
> issues.
> >
> >
> >
> > There has never been any "long history of difficulties with the
> operations of Orlando Lodge " as Jerome Michel states in The Messenger
> article.
> >
> >
> >
> > IF Mr Michel and others in TSA administration had evidence of any alleged
> difficulties, WHY
> > has no National Director or Agent ever come personally to Orlando Lodge
> to discuss issues with the membership or Officers, and attempt to resolve
> them???
> >
> >
> >
> > And WHY have they ignored our repeated requests for substantiating
> information about their supposed "investigation?"
> >
> >
> >
> > WHY did the Directors conduct an "Investigation" in absentia without ever
> meeting or talking directly to the Officers or membership of Orlando
> Lodge???
> >
> >
> >
> > WHY such stealth and innuendo???
> >
> >
> >
> > Remember, there was Never nor is there now ANY internal dissension among
> our membership, which would have given cause for external intervention.
> >
> >
> >
> > The TSA Directors have NEVER cited ANY particular Theosophical rule or
> regulation which we are supposed to be in violation of.
> >
> >
> >
> > Neither Jerome Michel, nor ANY current TSA Director has ever been to
> Orlando Lodge, and they do NOT know any of our members.
> >
> >
> >
> > A review of the history of our Lodge programs and our Lodge Newsletter
> will reveal that we have consistently maintained quality programs which are
> Classically Theosophical in the best sense. Those who have attended our
> programs can attest to this fact. And ANYONE has always been welcome to
> attend.
> >
> >
> >
> > There have been many many opportunities over the years for any Director
> or National Officer to personally visit Orlando Lodge and discuss concerns,
> yet NONE have ever done so.
> >
> >
> >
> > Another opportunity arose when I
> > and another delegate from Orlando Lodge personally attended the 2008
> National Convention at Wheaton. Yet no discussion of any anomalies occurred.
> There were smiles and handshakes, which now, in retrospect I realize were
> hollow and meaningless as they had already had their plot mapped out. Betty
> Bland, Tim Boyd, Jerome Michel, Ed Abdil, Jeffrey Forth, and the other
> Directors were all there, yet no one mentioned any anomalies about Orlando
> Lodge.
> >
> >
> >
> > This same delegate and I also attended the Spring 2009 Florida Federation
> Meeting at Deerfield Beach, again Jerome Michel and the Officers of The
> Florida Federation were all there, and NO mention of any anomalies of
> > Orlando Lodge occurred.
> >
> >
> >
> > What did happen:
> >
> >
> >
> > In June of 2008 just before the election for the International President
> Mrs. Bland circulated a letter to the members of the TSA urging them to vote
> for her mentor John Algeo. In the letter Mrs. Bland makes some very
> inaccurate statements stating that Radha Burnier is no longer fit either
> mentally or physically to hold the office of President. This in itself is a
> breach of Theosophical etiquette, as we have never politicized our elections
> or denigrated other candidates. What Mrs. Bland did Not share in her letter
> was the fact that 3, Three, highly respected physicians gave written
> statements that Mrs Burnier WAS indeed fit to carry out the duties.
> >
> >
> >
> > At that same time Mrs.Bland and the General Secretaries of the New
> Zealand, South African
> > and French sections of the T.S. were covertly planning ( This was ultra
> secret) to introduce a measure in the General Council revoking the rights of
> the world wide membership to vote for the International President, and
> arrogating that
> > privilege to themselves only, thus making the International President a
> puppet of the General Council.
> >
> >
> >
> > If John Algeo had been elected, their plan was to eventually close Adyar
> and move the International Headquarters to Wheaton, Illinois.
> >
> >
> >
> > A group of independent minded Theosophists of which we were a part
> discovered their covert plan ( we had an inside informer) and broadcast it
> over the internet, exposing their intentions to the membership worldwide.
> They were foiled in their political ambitions by the good sense and
> integrity of the general membership.
> >
> >
> >
> > Since that time, because we were very vocal in supporting Radha Burnier,
> we have been the target of a political vendetta. We represent in Mrs. Bland
> and her allies' opinion a continued threat for their political ambition.
> >
> >
> >
> > Make no mistake, there is a small select group of politicans at Wheaton
> and around the world
> > that seek to control the dissemination of Theosophy. They attempt to
> crush diversity of
> > communication through subtle intimidation tactics. Part of the "control
> issue" is tied to
> > "who gets to run " the Kern Foundation money.
> >
> >
> >
> > When we have a good number of autonomous Lodges each teaching Theosophy
> in their own unique and diverse ways, it makes it more difficult for a
> centralized bureaucrat to promote a single "authorized version."
> >
> >
> >
> > They, the Bland/Algeo group would prefer to be the only genuine voice for
> the communication of Theosophy. They have subtly implemented a long range
> plan to achieve this hegemony.
> >
> >
> >
> > A look over the spectrum of past few years will reveal how many
> established Lodges they have closed or attempted to close for the flimsiest
> of reasons. They have set up an adversarial mindset between National
> Headquarters and the autonomous Lodges.
> >
> >
> >
> > Mrs. Bland has many political allies in Florida, and she attempted to
> enlist them in her attempt to close us.
> >
> >
> >
> > We have repeatedly asked for an explanation of their allegations and an
> opportunity to defend ourselves from their libel, but have been consistently
> ignored.
> >
> >
> >
> > The International Rules of the Theosophical Society give Lodges the right
> to petition the International President to quash the action of any Section
> and demit the Lodge directly to Adyar. We invoked this clause and the
> International President granted our request.
> >
> >
> >
> > Their (the TSA Board ) actions against us began to unfold just after the
> last International Presidental elections. We strongly supported Radha
> Burnier, and were part of a group that
> > exposed the mis-information being propagated by Mrs. Bland and others in
> favor of John Algeo, and the ultra secret plot to deprive the worldwide
> membership of the right to vote.
> >
> >
> >
> > Neither Mrs. Bland nor Mr. Michel mention in any of their replies that
> Orlando Lodge filed for
> > and received a temporary injunction from the Orange County Circuit Court
> to prevent them (the TSA Directors) from seizing our assets and property. We
> were to have a court hearing on this matter to obtain a permanent injunction
> on January 11, 2011, however in the meantime the TSA attorneys petitioned
> our attorney for an abatement of the case because Mrs.Burniers
> > action in our behalf attaching us directly to Adyar, took the case out of
> their jurisdiction .
> >
> >
> >
> > You may check the truth of this by Google, Look up: Circuit Court of the
> Ninth Judicial Circuit in and for Orange County Florida. Case Number:
> 2010-CA-4077
> > Number 32
> > Judge Thomas B. Smith
> >
> >
> >
> > And just what do Mrs. Bland and Jerome Michel mean referring to us as a
> "renegade internet flamer?" They, with the assets of the TSA behind them
> and the Quest magazine and The Messenger newsletter as a forum make
> defamatory statements about us and we as a small Lodge with very little
> assets are not supposed to defend ourselves from their libel?
> > No, that is not fair play.
> >
> >
> >
> > One thing that their statements do indicate is the virulent nature of
> their animosity against us. We represent in their eyes a continued political
> threat for ambitions of their political friends and agenda.
> >
> >
> > Mr. Michel states that : "The situation was complicated by the defunct
> Orlando Lodge successfully petitioning the International President of the
> Theosophical Society to recognize the Orlando Lodge as a Theosophical Lodge
> directly attached to the International organization."
> >
> >
> >
> > The "SITUATION WAS COMPLICATED???" Mr. Michel really means that their
> political agenda was upset and an impartial and fair minded International
> President was willing to give Orlando Lodge the DUE PROCESS that it
> deserved.
> >
> >
> >
> > Mr. Michel further states: " This decision creates an "island" of a
> renegade lodge functioning within our midst, falsely representing the
> Society and its principles.
> > The situation is particularly troubling as it has major implications for
> all Sections now facing
> > the possibility of the International President countermanding their
> disciplinary decisions."
> >
> >
> >
> > A "RENEGADE LODGE???" "FALSELY REPRESENTING THE SOCIETY AND ITS
> > PRINCIPLES???"
> > Anyone who has ever been to Orlando Lodge and has seen our Newsletter
> could hardly concur with Jerome Michels statement. We have ALWAYS been
> Classically Theosophical and congruent with the principles of The Society.
> >
> >
> >
> > What Jerome Michel is really saying is that there is no room in the
> Society for diversity of opinion and thought, and integrity of conscience
> will not be tolerated if it differs from the "Official Party line" of
> thought.
> >
> >
> >
> > Colonel Olcott intentionally structured the Society so that AUTONOMY of
> the Branches would protect them from the political ambitions of the so
> called "Leaders" and politicians in our midst.
> >
> >
> >
> > For Mr. Michels information, the International President has always had
> broad discretionary powers to intervene in the affairs of the Society,
> although rarely and wisely used.
> >
> >
> >
> > Fiat Lux: "Let There Be Light"
> >
> >
> >
> > There comes a time in card games when the players are required to show
> their hands or drop out of the game. Enough is Enough...
> >
> >
> >
> > it is that time for the TSA Directors to come clean with the TSA
> Membership and to disclose and be transparent about this issue.
> >
> >
> >
> > Only cowards throw stones from behind a fence and then attempt to run
> away. Why are the TSA Directors acting in such a cowardly manner???
> >
> >
> > Orlando Lodge has NOTHING to hide or be ashamed of, and we will defend
> this position in any court of law, and in the court of Public Opinion.
> >
> >
> >
> > We also notice that the VERY Same Directors have had their allies
> re-nominate them for re-election. ( Where was the call for open
> nominations?)
> >
> >
> >
> > Before any vote is cast, we invite and encourage the TSA Membership to
> Demand that these persons explain themselves and their actions in Full
> disclosure. Barring their cooperation they should have the integrity to
> recuse themselves from the elections.
> >
> >
> >
> > There is only ONE way for TRUST and INTEGRITY to be restored to the TSA.
> >
> >
> >
> > It is reprehensible and very unfortunate that His Holiness the Dalai Lama
> is unwittingly participating in the TSA Program and unknowingly giving
> credibility to this cowardice and deceit.
> >
> >
> >
> > Fiat Lux: Let There Be Light;
> >
> >
> > William Delahunt, ( Lucifer)
> > Secretary;
> > Theosophical Society In Orlando
> >
> >
> > Theosophist@...
> > http://www.tso-orlando.org
> >
> >
> >
> > ========================
> >
>
> 
>

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