Theos-Talk Archives (March 2011 Message tt00203)

All efforts to help theosophy spread and organizations grow is welcome and
is badly needed. I hope there is some magic cure for this.

It looks like as wealth accumulated, it has complicated matters
exponentially. When HPB&HSO were building the organization, they were on a
shoe string budget and even Adyar campus was bought with money loaned by a
theosophist. Today situation is different.

I was reading the history of TS in America. In 1920s, there were 8000
members. There were two active factions engaging each other. No assets, no
buildings nothing. I think it was Rogers who headed TS in America at that
time who invited anyone willing to take over the responsibility of the
President of TSA. No takers.

Today, no one can easily aim for the job; one has to go thru lot of hoops
and pass thru many gate keepers before one can have the slender hope. Some
of the long time participants remember the Bing episode where he, an
outsider from Philippines, came very close to getting elected and the movers
and shakers moved and changed the bylaws putting a lot of hoops to jump
thru. With 50% population of the USA of Hispanic origin and growing, no
future leader of Hispanic origin is being groomed.

The membership is going down and down and down and it is about 3500 today.
Recent episodes of down sizing of Atlanta Lodge and de-certifying of Orlando
lodge (which is attached to Adyar for 2 years) (and litigation in the
courts, and no clear cut explanation to members as what the lodge did wrong)
is  the current trend.

More money is spent on outside accountants than for theosophical field work
to drum up theosophical marketing. All one needs to is to look up IRS tax
return Form 990 that is being filed by all tax exempt organization. If
anyone has info contradicting this, they are welcome to respond on this
list.

Not to mention about the what went on in the last International Election and
subsequent allegations against Indian Section and the failed ultra secret
attempt to seize the control of appointing the president by disenfanchising
all members world-wide, gives a flavor of where the current emphasis is and
no wonder we do not see membership growing.

I am reminded of the comment made by one of the Adepts when London Lodge
complained of not much growth, they were told how can they expect results
from the kind of motivations and actions of members.

If anyone has a magic cure, it is badly needed and would be welcomed by
every theosophist at heart.

MKR


On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 5:06 PM, jdmsoares <jdmsoares@CHkEL0xtVdiXhoUVr8TSHo5TI7whx0R8FChLwlhbPbcl3ourUt1zVamaeFbQCWg_VgFzM3OqsEYQbQ.yahoo.invalid> wrote:

>
>
>
> Dear Sufilight, friends,
>
> Maybe you have not read carefully the article that MKR mentioned,
> "The Future of Adyar Society
> <http://www.esoteric-philosophy.com/2010/10/future-of-adyar-society_18.h\
> tml<http://www.esoteric-philosophy.com/2010/10/future-of-adyar-society_18.html>>
> ".
>
> Let me leave here the invitation to those who feel interested to visit
> our websites and read our texts.
>
> On the websites www.TheosophyOnline.com
> <http://www.theosophyonline.com/> and www.Esoteric-Philosophy.com
> <http://www.esoteric-philosophy.com/> you will find two specific
> sections dealing in depth with the really important issues affecting the
> Adyar Society, and the esoteric movement as a whole: "Truth and
> Falsehood in the Theosophical Literature" and "Theosophical
> Movement -- Its Past and Its Future".
>
> You will find there, very clearly, that to really revive Adyar TS is
> necessary to abandon the pseudo-theosophy of Annie Besant and
> Leadbeater, is necessary to rescue the original theosophy of HPB; is
> necessary to abandon the domain maintained by dogmatisms
> bureaucratic-ritualistic.
>
> Above all, is necessary to recognize past mistakes and fantasies so to
> continue to persist in these same mistakes over and over again. They are
> not personal mistakes, but pedagogical ones. They resulted, basically,
> from the withdrawal of the genuine esoteric philosophy and from the well
> intentioned adoption of a pseudo-theosophy placed at the service of
> rituals, hierarchies of power, etc.
>
>
> Best regards, Joaquim
>
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight" <global-theosophy@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Joaquim
> >
> > My views are:
> >
> > Now I ask a few questions in the below to Joaquim.
> > other readers are heartily welcome to give some answers, of their
> heart of compassion are eager enough for it. Especially those who claim
> that they value the promotion of altruism in the TS very very much. TS
> leaders included!
> >
> >
> > Joaquim, you wrote:
> > "I think the differences between Sufilight positions and those we
> defend
> > in our websites are, from our point of view, secondary and of no great
> > importance."
> >
> > M. Sufilight says:
> > Well, that might be true.
> > But I wonder whether it is unimportant, if the present day TS operates
> a secterian body or not, when its original aim in 1875 until 1891 was
> most clearly to operate in a non-secterian manner?
> >
> > And I also wonder whether it is unimportant, if the present day TS
> operates with the same view as Annie Besant when she as a leader of the
> TS and its Esoteric Section said the following in her very political
> book in the below excerpt.
> >
> > In the below Annie Besant made both H. P. Blavatsky and H. S. Olcott
> guilty of political pormotions - even on behalf - of the Theosophical
> Society. To this I must clealry protest, when one call it unimportant or
> of no freat importance, even if TS Adyar do it....
> >
> > The Future of Indian Politics, 1922 (Printed at supposedly
> non-political Theosophical Publishing House)
> > "CHAPTER I
> > STEP BY STEP
> >
> > We begin with the words with which we
> > finished our " Bird's-Eye View " : " ultimate
> > freedom under her rule was inevitable " ; and
> > we must first note the great institution known
> > as the Indian National Congress, which laid,
> > well and truly, the foundations of Indian Free-
> > dom from December, 1885, to August, 1918,
> > both in Bombay.
> >
> > Some English critics, in the early days of
> > the War, angrily declared that India had taken
> > advantage of the War to press a new claim for
> > Dominion status. That was not so. The new
> > departure in 1913 resembled in one marked
> > way the new departure when the National
> >
> >
> > 26 THE FUTURE OF INDIAN POLITICS
> >
> > Congress was planned in 1884. The seed of
> > both was planted by the Theosophical Society.
> > It was at the Theosophical Convention of that
> > year that a small group of earnest Theo-
> > sophists - deeply concerned for the political
> > future of their country and aroused to a sense
> > of her past powers and her then present
> > impotence by the awakening crusades of
> > H. P. Blavatsky and Henry Steele Olcott,
> > stirring the educated to self-respect and res-
> > pect for their Nation - meeting in Adyar,
> > decided to make an effort for political
> > redemption; feeble as they seemed, they
> > felt strong in their belief that India's
> > ancient Rshis still watched over Their ancient
> > and ever well-loved land, and would aid their
> > efforts to bring about her political resurrection ;
> > so they gathered a small meeting in Madras
> > - there were only seventeen of them - and it
> > was there decided to begin " a National move-
> > ment for the saving of the Motherland "(How
> >
> > STEP BY STEP 27
> >
> > India Wrought for Freedom, p. 2). A list of the
> > seventeen is there given, quoted from the
> > Indian Mirror, and they were mostly delegates
> > to the Theosophical Convention from Calcutta,
> > Bombay, Poena, Benares, Allahabad, Bengal,^
> > Oudh and the Northwest Province (now the
> > United Provinces), and Madras. One of them,
> > Norendranath Sen, Editor of the (Calcutta)
> > Indian Mirror, says of them in his paper :
> > " The delegates who attended the [Theo-
> > sophical] Convention were most of them men
> > who, socially and intellectually, are the leaders
> > of the Society in which they move in different
> > parts of the country." They resolved that on
> > their return home, each would form a
> > Committee in his own town or Province, and
> > consult how to make their dream a reality. " In
> > March, 1885, it was decided to hold a meeting
> > of representatives from all parts of India at
> > the then coming Christmas " (Proceedings of
> > the First Indian National Congress) They
> >
> >
> > 28 THE FUTURE OF INDIAN POLITICS
> >
> > estimated that seventy delegates would be pre-
> > sent, and seventy-two attended, strengthened
> > by thirty friends. From that first meeting in
> > 1885 to that of Bombay in 1918 - with one
> > break-down at Surat in 1907 - the Congress
> > was truly National, and guided Indian Politics.
> > During all these years the National Congress
> > had awakened large numbers of the English-
> > educated classes to political self-consciousness,
> > and had trained them in political knowledge.
> > English names, Hume, Wedderburn, Cotton,
> > and others are found co-operating with the
> > Indian patriots. It met yearly and demanded
> > definite improvements in the system of
> > Government, definite changes in legislation,
> > definite reforms of abuses, definite limitations
> > of autocracy and enlargements of liberty."
> >
> http://www.archive.org/stream/futureofindianpo00besarich#page/n3/mode/2u\
> p<http://www.archive.org/stream/futureofindianpo00besarich#page/n3/mode/2up>
>
> >
> > I repeat Annie Besant claim:
> > "The seed of
> > both was planted by the Theosophical Society."...ie. the political aim
> for freedom of India, (to Besant this was freedom under the English
> Crown, the King)...etc. etc.
> >
> >
> > This is the past, which at present still looms over the Theosophical
> Society, who in truth have not washed away this stain from its main
> spiritual aim of altruism.
> >
> > Those who find that turning the TS into a pseudo-arm and promoter of
> politics a good idea, they support Annie Besant. Those who do not, aught
> to change the Constitution and Rules of the present day TS, so they
> clearly rejects this stance - something the today very much distorted
> 1891 TS Constitutions and Rules in fact do.
> >
> > But, please tell me why I am in error, when I - in the name of
> ALTRUSIM --- find the lack of emphasis on these to issues -
> non-political interference and non-secterian bahaviour to be lacking in
> TS Adyar and its present day Constitutions. Will you please do that?
> >
> > All the above are as usual just my views.
> > And I might be in error.
> >
> >
> >
> > M. Sufilight
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: jdmsoares
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 12:35 AM
> > Subject: theos-talk Re: THE FUTURE OF ADYAR SOCIETY - An Article
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Sufilight, Konstantin, friends,
> >
> > I think the differences between Sufilight positions and those we
> defend
> > in our websites are, from our point of view, secondary and of no
> great
> > importance.
> >
> > Konstantin is deeply concerned about those who left the Adyar TS,
> and
> > believes that these become the "most bitter enemies".
> >
> > My dear brothers, I myself was for some years a member of Adyar
> Society
> > and like Sufilight and many others I also not hope to be considered
> an
> > enemy.
> >
> > Theosophy is not confined to the Adyar TS.
> >
> > It is good to remember that HPB herself wrote:
> >
> > "It is pure nonsense to say ÂH.P. Blavatsky . . . is loyal to the
> > Theosophical Society and to Adyar` (!?) H.P. Blavatsky is loyal to
> death
> > to the Theosophical Cause, and those great Teachers whose philosophy
> can
> > alone bind the whole of Humanity into one Brotherhood. Together with
> > Col. Olcott, she is the chief Founder and Builder of the Society
> which
> > was and is meant to represent the Cause. . . Therefore the degree of
> her
> > sympathies with the "Theosophical Society and Adyar" depends
> > upon the degree of the loyalty of that Society to the Cause. Let it
> > break away from the original lines and show disloyalty in its policy
> to
> > the Cause and the original programme of the Society, and H.P.
> Blavatsky
> > calling the Theosophical Society disloyal will shake it off like
> dust
> > from her feet."
> >
> > I took this excerpt - of the well know text of HPB - from a most
> > interesting article entitled "A Key to the Future of Adyar
> >
> <http://www.esoteric-philosophy.com/2010/10/1922-statement-to-all-theoso\
> \
>  <http://www.esoteric-philosophy.com/2010/10/1922-statement-to-all-theoso>>
> phists-and.html> ", which I think it is worth reading carefully.
> >
> > The theosophical movement itself as a whole needs a revived Adyar
> TS.
> >
> > Best regards, Joaquim
> >
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "M. Sufilight" global-theosophy@
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Konstantin and friends
> > >
> > > My views are:
> > >
> > > Your post got me to think about my own role in this affair:
> > > Well, then I do certainly not hope that I am considered an enemy
> and
> > Jesuit, at least not more than Leadbeater was when he was reinstated
> in
> > 1908 - well if you understand me in a positive manner.
> > >
> > > Well, either one is in sympathy with the aims of the Society or
> one is
> > not.
> > > I am very much in sympathy with the Original Constitution and
> Rules as
> > they were given in 1891, but not the present day ones. That is the
> main
> > difference i experience.
> > >
> > > What I through the years has experienced as highly problematic is
> that
> > it is virtually impossible to exchange views with leading TS members
> > about central issues like why deviation from the Original
> Constitution
> > of the Theosophical Society has been necessary - and why exchanges
> on
> > this is kept from the TS magazines, while it as a fact must be of
> the
> > greatest importance to consider in a Society where the primary aim
> is
> > something as important as ALTRUISM! And when we on top of that talk
> > about the crisis that happened in the later years and the lacking of
> > interest or rather understanding of the TS and its aims among people
> in
> > all countries but India perhaps, - so we are told --- I find the
> > laziness og laissez-faire attutude publicly speaking to be lacking
> > compassion!
> > > Yet, there is a TS blog where some articles have been posted, and
> we
> > have to be thankful for this.
> > >
> > > Maybe as HPB said in the link on SPIRITUAL PROGRESS I recently
> posted,
> > --- we all would do well in much more scientific research in the
> field
> > of Mesmerism (known today by many as Heartflow and Healing, or
> > Therapeutic Touch etc.)?
> > >
> > > There is, as I see it, a clear and pressing need for an
> explanation of
> > the aims of the Society - and a clear explanation of why its
> > Constitution and Rules are like they are today - and - that compared
> > with the original one in 1875 and later versions, like the 1891 one.
> It
> > is important, if one really are taking this Society thing seriously.
> If
> > it is not, then the present day attitude are understood much better.
> But
> > calling it altruism I will not.
> > >
> > >
> > > TS has, as I see it, today not clearly defined its role towards
> New
> > Age groups - and the many later theosophical ofshoots - and that is
> a
> > great failure. The same with TS relation to whether it is secterian
> or
> > non-secterian. (The latter term, a term which has been thrown away
> from
> > the 1875 and 1891 Constitutions through the years). In the old days,
> > something like that would not have happened - because back then
> altruism
> > and building the Society on a rock was considered to be important -
> and
> > views based on facts and scientific research as well.
> > > And honesty was important as well - and an error commited, was
> > admitted when proven.
> > > And I find that this last sentence, perhaps is where the shoe
> pinches
> > mon Shaib (as Sinnett was told by Morya in the below).
> > >
> > > J. Krishnamurti's idea of abolishing all organisations is not
> really
> > what is helpful to the promotion of altruism, if you by this
> consider
> > dissolving the TS. And if it is a dissolving of the TS the present
> day
> > leadership aims at they seem very slow at promoting it.
> > >
> > >
> > > Mahatma Letter no. 47 by Morya to Sinnett:
> > > "Your last letter to me is less a "petition" than a protest, my
> > respected Sahib. It's voice is that of the war sankh of my Rajput
> > ancestors, rather than the cooing of a friend. And I like it all the
> > more I promise you. It has the right ring of honest frankness. So
> let us
> > talk -- for sharp as your voice may be, your heart is warm and you
> end
> > by saying "Whether you decree that what seems to me right be done or
> > not" you are ever ours faithfully etc. Europe is a large place but
> the
> > world is bigger yet. The sun of Theosophy must shine for all, not
> for a
> > part. There is more of this movement than you have yet had an
> inkling
> > of, and the work of the T.S. is linked in with similar work that is
> > secretly going on in all parts of the world. Even in the T.S. there
> is a
> > division, managed by a Greek Brother about which not a person in the
> > Society has a suspicion excepting the old woman and Olcott"
> > > .......
> > > "You know K.H. and me -- buss! know you anything of the whole
> > Brotherhood and its ramifications? The Old Woman is accused of
> > untruthfulness, inaccuracy in her statements. "Ask no questions and
> you
> > will receive no lies." She is forbidden to say what she knows. You
> may
> > cut her to pieces and she will not tell. Nay -- she is ordered in
> cases
> > of need to mislead people; and, were she more of a natural born liar
> --
> > she might be happier and won her day long since by this time. But
> that's
> > just where the shoe pinches, Sahib. She is too truthful, too
> outspoken,
> > too incapable of dissimulation: and now she is being daily crucified
> for
> > it. Try not to be hasty, respected Sir. The world was not made in a
> day;
> > nor has the tail of the yak developed in one year. Let evolution
> take
> > its course naturally -- lest we make it deviate and produce monsters
> by
> > presuming to guide it."
> > > http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-47.htm
> > >
> > >
> > > Now, you may crucify me for saying what I am saying, but I am
> saying
> > it for the sake of a Society I am not even a member of these days.
> > >
> > > All the above are as usual just my views.
> > > And I might be in error.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > M. Sufilight
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Konstantin Zaitzev
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 11:02 AM
> > > Subject: theos-talk Re: THE FUTURE OF ADYAR SOCIETY - An Article
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Some months ago, an article on the topic of the Future of Adyar
> > > > Society was published in a theosophical forum.
> > >
> > > The author is very prejudiced. He persistently calls theosophical
> > society "Adyar society", ignoring the fact that other societies
> calling
> > themselves theosophical are decaying in much greater degree and
> hadn't
> > much prominence even in their best times.
> > > Information on his site is filtered and censored. Several months
> ago
> > he proposed me to make an interview, ensuring me in his
> "professional
> > journalism", "professional ethics" and other bla-bla-bla like that.
> > > It took much time to write detailed answers to all his questions,
> > but as some my answers proved to be not like he expected, he
> declined to
> > publish the interview.
> > > I agree that for the last 30 years the Theosophical Society is
> > experiencing serious problems (probably more serious than the author
> > points out but of quite different nature), but it's not the best way
> to
> > solve them to resort to the help of the enemies of the Society. For
> many
> > years he was a member and later left it, and, as HPB pointed out,
> such
> > people form the most bitter enemies. The other materials of the site
> > illustarate that well.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  
>


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