Theos-Talk Archives (March 2011 Message tt00185)

Dear friends,

Is just to inform that "The Theosophical Movement in Russia - A
Dialogue with Konstantin Zaitzev" was also published at our two
other websites www.TheosophyOnline.com <http://www.theosophyonline.com/>
and  www.FilosofiaEsoterica.com <http://www.filosofiaesoterica.com/>  .

The direct links are: http://www.filosofiaesoterica.com/ler.php?id=1127
<http://www.filosofiaesoterica.com/ler.php?id=1127>   and  
http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=217
<http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=217>



Best regards, Joaquim



--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "jdmsoares" <jdmsoares@...> wrote:
>
>
> Dear Konstantin, MKR, friends,
>
> Thanks Konstantin.
>
> I'm co-editor of the websites www.Esoteric-Philosophy,com
> <http://www.esoteric-philosophy,com/>  and www.TheosophyOnline.com
> <http://www.theosophyonline.com/>  .
>
> I would like to inform you all that we have just published at
> www.Esoteric-Philosophy.com <http://www.esoteric-philosophy.com/>  the
> interview given by Konstantin, under the title:
>
>
>
> The Theosophical Movement in Russia
>
> A Dialogue with Konstantin Zaitzev
>
>
>
> It should be noted that Carlos says in his introductory note that he
> apologizes for the delay in publishing the interview.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Joaquim (from Portugal)
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, MKR mkr777@ wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for posting it here. Some of the points you have made are
right
> on
> > target and I hope theosophists around the world read it and think
for
> > themselves. Also if any theosophist from the West happen to visit
> Russia or
> > Ukraine on other business, they should try to meet theosophists
there.
> It
> > would definitely help, no matter whether one is inclined to Adyar or
> ULT or
> > none.
> >
> > MKR
> >
> > On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 3:23 AM, Konstantin Zaitzev
> kay_ziatz@...:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > As I remembered about unpublished interview (given in last summer)
I
> > > publish it her, for I don't like to spend my work in vain.
> > >
> > > It was taken because, as they said,
> > > "We feel the Russian theosophical movement is far too important
not
> to have
> > > strong permanent links with the theosophical movement in Western
> Europe,
> > > India and the three Americas. We are also gathering data and
> testimonies in
> > > order to produce a sort of "world map of the theosophical movement
> and its
> > > vitality". For that, a good dialogue with theosophists in Russian
is
> of the
> > > essence."
> > >
> > > ---
> > > To: Carlos Cardoso Aveline cardosoaveline@
> > > cc: lutbr@
> > > Subj: Re: Theosophical Movement in Russia
> > >
> > > Hello Carlos,
> > >
> > > Thursday, July 29, 2010, 4:16:04 PM, you wrote:
> > >
> > > > You can give a fully public answer in your own name ("on the
> record");
> > >
> > > OK, granted that the text will be left unchanged.
> > >
> > > > 1) Your full name - Konstantin Zaytsev. Correct? Year of birth?
> > >
> > > I would rather spell it as Konstantin Zaitzev. Yet the above
version
> is
> > > also correct. 1968.
> > >
> > > > 2) You live in Moscow?
> > > Yes.
> > >
> > > > 3) Editor and publisher of "Messenger of Theosophy"? Is the
> journal
> > > > electronic or in paper? What is its periodicity? Monthly? When
was
> > > > it founded? How many readers?
> > >
> > > It has both electronic and printed versions. It is published 3
times
> a year
> > > and contains 32 pages of A4 format, 9 point size text in two
> columns. It
> > > somewhat reminds "The Theosophist" of its first years by its
volume
> and
> > > outer appearance. It contains mostly translated material, though
> almost
> > > every issue contains one original Russian article.
> > > Initially the magazine was founded in 1908 and was an official
> mounthpiece
> > > of the Russian Section. In 1918 it was closed by the communist
> regime. In
> > > early 1990's an attempt was made to renew the magazine but only
two
> issues,
> > > in 1992 and 1994, were published. In 2008, in its centennary, it
was
> renewed
> > > again in rather humble scale. Up to this date (summer 2010)
already
> 7 issues
> > > were published. It's hard to report an exact number of readers due
> to the
> > > pecular manner of publication. 150 copies are being printed in
> Moscow and
> > > distributed mostly there, some for free (in the theosophical
> meetings) and
> > > some are being sold almost for the cost price (around $1 per
copy).
> Some
> > > other cities which have theosophical groups print small quantities
> around
> > > 10-50, two big cities in Ukraine print more, around 100. So the
> total
> > > quantity of copies of the first issue was around 400. Each group
> decides how
> > > to distribute them, for money or for free. An electronic version
in
> PDF
> > > format is also available on the website. The project of
digitization
> of all
> > > previous issues is on, though only 20% of the work is done. The
> digitized
> > > magazines are already put online.
> > >
> > > > 4) What's your general view of the theosophical movement in
> Russia?
> > > > What's a bird's eye view of its historical origin and evolution?
> > >
> > > The most characteristic trait is perhaps spontaneity and lack of
> > > organization. Only for 10 years, in 1908-1918, it had regular
> character and
> > > was a section of the Theosophical Society, though even then there
> were
> > > independent theosophical groups, or those connected directly to
some
> foreign
> > > section. After the revolution many prominent theosophists,
including
> all
> > > leadership, fled to emigration and later formed the Russian
Section
> Abroad.
> > > Yet those who remained in Russia continued their work underground;
> the
> > > president of former Moscow Branch Sofia Gerye became the head of
the
> > > movement, though she naturally lost connection with some parts of
> it. In
> > > 1991 Russian theosophists with participation of those who
previously
> worked
> > > underground, reinstalled the Russian Theosophical Society, which
> wasn't
> > > approved by TS Adyar.
> > > Yet the attention of the public is much more attracted by the
> Roerich
> > > movement, which has theosophy in its basis but with some
substantial
> > > doctrinal changes, while the theosophical teaching as taught by
HPB
> and her
> > > close associates has not so much adherents. The New Acropolis in
> Russia has
> > > one of its biggest sections and is more active and numerous than
the
> > > Theosophical Society. The both movements publish works by HPB.
> > > Another phenomenon worth to be mentioned is the publishing
activity
> which
> > > is really wide and surpasses the publication efforts of the
biggest
> > > theosophical sections of the western counties, though conducted by
> the
> > > commercial publishers, sometimes in cooperation with theosophists.
> The
> > > Secret Doctrine, Isis Unveiled and Key to Theosophy are always in
> print, and
> > > at least 3000 copies of each title are sold every year.
> Unfortunately, the
> > > economic crisis has undermined this activity and forced the
> publishers to
> > > migrate to more superficial literature. See an appendix which
lists
> Russian
> > > theosophical publications for the last several years.
> > >
> > > > 5) What about its vitality? Is it increasing or decreasing
> > > > right now? Why so?
> > >
> > > There was some growth in the last two years, but the vitality is
> rather
> > > sporadic, as the experience of the previous years shows, and I'm
not
> sure
> > > about steady growth. The remarks about the organizational aspects
> below
> > > partly explain why. And people are not much active. A theosophical
> book with
> > > our address can be sold in several thousands copies but we receive
> only few
> > > letters. Also I met many theosophists who regard theosophy as a
kind
> of
> > > revelation from omniscient Mahatmas given to us throgh their
> messenger.
> > > Among Russian intellectuals it gives an impression of theosophy as
> yet
> > > another sect and impedes its admission.
> > >
> > > > 6) How much of real interest in the inner and ethical aspects of
> the
> > > > original theosophy there is in the Russian theosophical
movement?
> > >
> > > It's hard to say, it seems that everyone finds his own aspect of
> interest.
> > > For some it's philosophy, for others ethics, for some
> theosophy-science
> > > connection and even experimenting. For me it was the scientific
> aspect,
> > > theosophy has attracted me because it clearly explains phenomena
> which are
> > > regarded miraculous, unexplained or even non-existing by the
general
> public.
> > >
> > > > How far goes the interest for its 'fashionable" or superficial
> aspects
> > > only?
> > >
> > > An interest to superficial aspects isn't considerable, as those
who
> have it
> > > are being attracted rather to different new-age schools than to
> theosophy.
> > >
> > > > 7) What about the organizational aspects of the movement in
> Russia? What
> > > is
> > > > the relationship between the Theosophical Society in Russia and
> the Adyar
> > > > Society? (Initially, it seems the Russian TS was not chartered
by
> Adyar.)
> > >
> > > Yes, the above mentioned renewed Russian Theosophical Society
wasn't
> > > approved by TS Adyar. In my opinion the good relations weren't
> established
> > > due to mistakes and arrogance of both sides. Several years later
RTS
> waned
> > > and ceased an official existence due to the internal splits and
lack
> of
> > > support from abroad. The biggest and most active remaining part of
> it is
> > > Moscow Theosophical Society which has no official status and no
> officers but
> > > helds regular meetings which are open for all.
> > >
> > > > How many lodges and theosophists does the Theosophical Society
in
> > > > Russia have, in how many cities?
> > >
> > > TS Adyar still has no official branches in Russia though
membership
> slowly
> > > grows. Most attendants of the theosophical meetings aren't the
> members, and
> > > many members don't visit the meetings, though the groups somewhat
> > > interpenetrate and people from the Moscow TS join TS Adyar.
> > > There are theosophical groups in other cities too but they aren't
> official,
> > > though some of them have friendly connections with Moscow group.
> Moscow T.S.
> > > sometimes helps them by literature or other ways, though hasn't
any
> > > directing functions.
> > >
> > > > 8) Is there any work in Russia effectively linked to - or
clearly
> > > inspired
> > > > by - the Pasadena Society (former "Point Loma" and "Covina")?
> > >
> > > No, as far I know.
> > >
> > > > 9) Is there any influence in Russia of the United Lodge of
> Theosophists?
> > >
> > > Not much. I am the only ULT associate in Russia which I know of,
> though of
> > > course there can be others. I met several people who strictly hold
> to the
> > > teachings of H.P. Blavatsky and W.Q. Judge only. In 1998 I've
> published ULT
> > > declaration in Russian both in the Internet and in the printed
form.
> Several
> > > years ago "Ocean of theosophy" and some articles by W.Q. Judge
were
> > > published, though the quality of translation of the former wasn't
> > > satisfactory. As far I know, it was an initiative of American ULT
> > > associates. There is an improved translation of "Ocean" on our
> website.
> > >
> > > > 10) How do you see the international movement today? What about
> its
> > > > strength and its vitality? What mistakes should be corrected, if
> > > > any, to increase its vitality worldwide? How do you see the
three
> > > > main currents of thought in the theosophical movement?
> > >
> > > It seems to me that all the currents lack vitality. The leaders of
> the
> > > theosophical movement are too aged and often are completely out of
> time.
> > > There are exceptions but they are too few. In my opinion, the
> headquarters
> > > do too little to propagate theosophy, and even less to do it
modern
> way. The
> > > resourses they have aren't used effeciently. Entusiastic persons
> often make
> > > much more than entire organizations and get not much support from
> them.
> > >
> > > > 11) How do you see the future of the theosophical movement in
> Russia
> > > > and in the world? What should be the international role to be
> played
> > > > by the Russian Theosophical Movement? How should it be
fulfilled?
> > >
> > > The future is uncertain. It can grow or decay and die.
Theosophical
> > > movement will grow and play important role it its leaders change
> their
> > > methods of work. Theosophical movement becomes alike many other
> schools or
> > > even sects, what it wasn't intended for. It should be a society
for
> mutual
> > > spiritual help for people of all views who support Three Objects.
> Then it
> > > can be an important power in the world. As for the Russian
> theosophical
> > > movement, it's future will depend on general trends in Russia,
i.e.
> will the
> > > country move to democracy or to clericalization. Christians cannot
> now join
> > > Theosophical Society as they have done before, for they would be
> anathemized
> > > by the Church. 100 years ago one could visit both the church and
the
> > > theosophical meetings, what most Russian members did, now he has
to
> make
> > > choice. So the theosophical movement is rather a part of
underground
> than a
> > > part of mainstream which it almost succeeded to become in
beginning
> of 20th
> > > century. Due to this it's hard to say anything about international
> role of
> > > the Russian theosophical movement, though 20 years ago many people
> thought
> > > that it will be the center from which revitalization of the world
> > > theosophical movement will begin. Probably we have to position the
> > > Theosophical Society as fully secular and even scientific society.
> > >
> > > > 12) What about the theosophical movement in Ukraine?
> > >
> > > Unlike that in Russia, it has much common with theosophical
movement
> of any
> > > other western country. It has its official center in Kiev, 4
lodges,
> and
> > > good connection with Adyar headquarters. Ukrainian theosophists
> (they are
> > > mostly Russian-speaking) regularly visit international conventions
> and
> > > congresses, organize their own conferences and seminars which are
> sometimes
> > > attended by theosophists from Russia. The literature in Ukrainian
> language
> > > is lacking, the Russian translations are in use. (Russian and
> Ukrainian
> > > languages are much alike, like Spanish and Portuguese). Recently
> "The Voice
> > > of Silence" was translated to Ukrainian.
> > >
> > > > 13) How do you see the actual relationship between the
> theosophical
> > > > movement in Russia and the international theosophical movement?
> > >
> > > It isn't considerable. It is so probably due an inactivity from
the
> > > headquarter's side and lack of knowledge of foreign languages from
> the
> > > Russian side. And many theosophists have not enough money to
travel.
> > >
> > > > 14) In what aspects this relationship is strong and well?
> > >
> > > In digitization, translation and publishing activity.
> > >
> > > > In what aspects it is not well?
> > >
> > > In most others. Personal visits are rare.
> > >
> > > > What possible barriers are there in this relationship to be
> removed?
> > >
> > > Conservatism. Also it seems that there's a strong prejudice
against
> > > Russians in the West, and some theosophists unfortunalely share it
> though
> > > they should be above prejudices against nations.
> > >
> > > > 15) In what ways can and should we take steps to increase the
> > > > cross-cultural dialogue and cooperation between the movement in
> > > > Russia and the movement in Western countries?
> > >
> > > Probably we need more personal visits. Conventions and conferences
> are not
> > > enough, theosophists of one country should be guests in the houses
> of
> > > theosophists of other country and live with them for weeks. We
> shouldn't
> > > forget that one of our objects is brotherhood.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]