Theos-Talk Archives (March 2011 Message tt00012)

Dear friends

My views are:

And I think, one aught, as I see it, to bear in mind that the founders of The Theosophical Society said that theosophy was the 'exact science on psychology'.

I will throw the following movie and words, which I find to be helpful in at least giviing the reader and listener an idea on what is going on in our Western countries and a number of other countries these days with regard to psychological problems and the use of psychotropic drugs, and how many psychiatrists are having close ties with the psychopharmaka-industry. It is rare to find a psychiatrist, who does not use drugs. - Some of you perhaps already know about these things in your own ways.

The fact that a number of the early psychiatrists used Morphine and Opium as drugs is a telling story, and also a sad one. They later abandoned them as psychopharmaka because they were proven not to be helpful - and - in fact created worse problems to many a victim. The below movie says that even Sigmund Freud was behind the creation of a cocaine industry in the western part of the world. (Well, maybe to a certain degree. See Sigmind Freud: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigmund_Freud#Cocaine "The application as an anesthetic turned out to be one of the few safe uses of cocaine, and as reports of addiction and overdose began to filter in from many places in the world, Freud's medical reputation became somewhat tarnished" ). At least the sanctioning by Freud of cocaine as a non-dependant drug creating an epidemic of its use in many a western country made him one of the promoters of the problem it had to many persons in his time. And perhaps it can be said that it was a steppingstone to many later more or less spurious psychotropic drugs.

And interestingly the much used and abused drug Thorazine, (it has been called the improvment to Lobotomy) can be given almost the same label according to the below movies. In about 1970 Thorazine gave about 33% of the drug companies revenues. And about 250 million people have tried it until today the movie says. The fact is that some persons was permanently damaged by the use of Thorazine. It seems that Greed gives the thought: Drug marketing = Money. - Something similar and perhaps more sinister happened with the introduction of the drug Miltown or Meprospan (Meprobamate), which was recommended to ordinary people on the streets, such as busy housewifes, pregnant women, and busy office workers. This of course without telling them that the drug among various side-effects had a sinister side-effect: Physical dependence. Later came Valium (nicknamed "mothers little helper"), which was targetting housewifes. But it was soon taken down - interewstingly also by the USA government, which claimed it to be more addictive than cocaine. - And the psychiatrist and psychopharmaka companies continued their marketing. Now the psychiatrist was also "real doctors", because the real doctors was allowed to prescribe such "mild" drugs. Psychological problems became therefore quickly related to phycial proven symtoms of dicease in the brain of ordinary humans or those who had a bad they or two, or worse. Saying that moeny did'nt play a part in this, and that it does not today, one can question.
In the 1960-1980'ties Valium was the most prescribed drug in the Western world.
The Prozac and similar products was launched as a cure or great helper towards the diagnosis called Dpression. And this time with almost no side-effects at all! - They were also called lifestyle drugs. Soon it was discovered that it did not help much. Side-effects ermerged, such as sxual-dysfunction, lack of control with various muscles, the tounge included, - and also voilence and suicide etc. - But, people still use it heavily today year 2011, and they still believe that a dependance on a drug can solve - depression, lack of self-confidence, fear, and problems of Mind Control etc. etc. - They have been cheated into the - cult of dependance, and they use their money on it, - and - on the side-effects.


The movie runs in 18 parts, the first part alone might be very helpful to consider to some...
See "The Marketing of Madness (1/18)" 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1nbZCNDgbY

Now I am not saying that the above movie(s) is flawless. but it raises at least some questions of importance, to our present day of the our, as far as I am concerned.
The question is where are we today with our depression, and economical depression, and our ADDH, our retalin, prozacs etc etc.?
Have we learned and improved?

Is marketing efficient? It seems so.

______________

Now what has all this to do with Mind Control and Cult behaviour?
Not that much, but there are certain parallels, which I think aught to be mentioned with regard cults and the above use of psychotropic drugs. 

And I think, one aught, as I see it, to bear in mind that the founders of The Theosophical Society said that theosophy was the 'exact science on psychology'.

One parallel which I will like to note is that a psychiatrist even today operate as a "teacher" to his or her client - who - come to the psychiatrist for help either because of depression or another psychological problem, sometimes of the most severe kind.
When the "victim" of psychological problems throw themselves into the arms of a psychiatrist who prescribes psychotropic drugs - they in a certain sense fall victim to - a one-man cult - who claim to use scientific reports (many times not - scientifically - reliable at all) as his or her basis for alleviating psychological problems - and who claim that the removal of the psychological problem can be done by the use of drugs or that it can be helped by the use of drugs. And this in many instances these days by the use of drugs which in reality do NOT actually help the "victim", but merely creates a dependance between the "victim" and the drug used, as well as the psychiatrist, and his or her outlook on the world. - Incidents of physical abuse by the use of drugs given by psychiatrists took place during the reign of some totalitarian regimes in the past as part of a system to enforce political control. Some of the abuse even continued to the present day

Today there are many recognized psychiatric illnesses in the western countries. But, it seems striking that so few of them are detectable in the physical brain and body. One is provoked to ask, why scientist think that they - in many instances - can remove an ailment by physical means, which is not physically visible? Such a theory seems strange, at least to me.

The psychiatrist as - a one-man cult - operate in many repsects similar to a cult using Mind Control, because the psychiatrist are using drugs to treat a psychological problem of a victim, most often without telling the "victim" (and not seldom without understanding), about the drugs sometimes severe side-effects, and that - lack of self-confidence, fear as such, and the lack of knnowledge of Mind Control problems etc. etc.  - cannot be removed by eating drugs. Yet many scientist still believe that it can be done by the use of drugs, - or - perhaps they like to believe it, because that is their profession, and how they earn a living, and how psychopharmaka companies earn a living. Without the psychiatrist many a psychopharmaka company would have to turn the key and close.

And some of us know, how easily a sad moment can be removed by a happy and a beautiful one within seconds. And that there is a huge difference between persons, who have a depressing world-view and the ones for whom all and everything looks bright and flourishing.


- - - 
Just a few views of mine.
But, maybe I am in error.




M. Sufilight

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: M. Sufilight 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 6:39 PM
  Subject: theos-talk Destructive Theosophical Cults do they exist? - Coercive persuasion - Mind Control


    
  Dear friends

  My views are:

  The Theosophical Society as it was given in 1875-1891 was shortly formulated based on the following aims and offences:
  - The objects of the Theosophical Society are: First. - To form the nucleus of a Universal Brotherhood of Humanity, without distinction of race, creed, sex, caste or colour. Second. - To promote the study of Aryan and other Eastern literatures, religions, philosophies and sciences, and to demonstrate their importance to Humanity. Third. - To investigate unexplained laws of Nature and the psychic powers latent in man.

  - The Theosophical Society is absolutely unsectarian, and no assent to any formula of belief, faith or creed shall be required as a qualification of membership; but every applicant and member must lie in sympathy with the effort to create the nucleus of an Universal Brotherhood of Humanity.

  - The Society does not interfere with caste rules, nor other social observances, nor with politics, and any such interference in its name is a breach of the constitution. The Society is not responsible for the personal opinions of its Fellows.

  - Church organizations, Christian and Spiritual sects is to be shown as the future contrasts to the Society.

  - The Theosophical Society aim to reconcile all religions, sects and nations under a common system of ethics, based on eternal verities, and seek this with altruism as its basis. 

  - The Theosophy as it was given in 1875-1891 was defined as: The exact science on psychology. 

  Offences
  - Any Fellow who shall in any way attempt to involve the Society In political disputes shall be immediately expelled.

  - No Fellow, Officer, or Council of the Theosophical Society, or of any Section or Branch thereof, shall promulgate or maintain any doctrinas being that advanced, or advocated by the Society. 

  - - - - - - - -

  Now where are we today with regard to psychology and cults?

  ON CULTS
  How do you define the word cult?
  Or should I rather say the term "destructive cult"?

  I define the psychological term Mind Control as: 
  A term that has been applied to any tactic, psychological or otherwise, which can be seen as subverting an individual's sense of control over their own thinking, behavior, emotions or decision making.
  This can as I define the term happen in at least four categories. Religious organisations, Political ones, Commercial ones, and in the area of Alternative Treatment (physically, psychologically, as well as spiritually).´

  A Cult or destructive Cult is, as I define it, a group or organisations, whose leader(s) and/or doctrine more or less openly or hidden promotes the use of Mind Control elements as defined in the above.
  It can be a religious group, but is not necessarily such a one.

  - - -
  THE EXACT SCIENCE ON PSYCHOLOGY
  Now I am saying that Theosophy as it was given in 1875-1891 was defined as "The exact science on psychology". Yet, since that time, the ordinary science of psychology known to mankind has evolved a whole lot. Despite this, I do not find that the Theosophical Societies have related themselves to this issue very much - and thereby sought a clear scientific stance on the isse Mind Control and destructive cults as I have mentioned it in the above.

  We can only ask ourselves why?

  Is it because many of the later theosophical offshoot groups and organisations themselves have become victims to aspects similar til destructive cults and the use of Mind Control as mentioned in the above?
  Or is it because of something else? And if so, what is that "something else" then?

  People like to think that their opinions, values,, and ideas are inviolate and totally self-regulated. They may grudgingly admit that they are influenced by advertising. Beyond that, they want to preserve the myth that other people are weak-minded and easily influenced while they are strong-minded. Even though we all know human minds are open to influence¨- whether or not that is a comfortable thought - most of us defensively or haughtily proclaim, "Only crazy, stupid, needy people join cults. No one could ever get me to commit suicide, or beat my kids, or give my wife over to a cult leader, or make me fanatically follow a leader. No one could ever talk me into anything like that."
  As I hear people say that, I silently ask: "You want to bet?"

  The average person looks down on those who get involved in cults (destructive cults that is), get taken in a scam by some operator who bilks people, orn remain in an abusive group or relationship for long periods. That only happens to weak and silly people, the person boasts, generating for herself or himself a category called "not me" in which to place the victims of cults, scams, and intense influence and similar. There is an almost universal aversion to accepting the idea that we ourselves are vulnerable to persuasion. I have heard this from well-educated persons, even those having a university degree. I will say that neither education, age, nor social class protects a person from this false sense of invulnerability.

  Scientific research indicates that two-thirds of those who have joined cults come from normal, functioning families. Of the remaining third less than 10% had major psychological difficulties prior to joining a cult. The remaining group has experienced some loss of a kind (for example, a death in the family, failure to be admitted to a preferred university or trianing program, or a broken romance etc.) or struggled with career dilemmas. --- Some families interestingly enough fosters a child, who are very vulnerable to becoming a member of a cult.

  - - -

  MIND CONTROL in offshoot groups of the ORIGINAL THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY 
  As a member of the Theosophical Society as it is today or as a member of one of its many later offshoots, one could ask one self, whether one is entangled with a group or organisation using Mind Control aspects - or - whether the opposite is true?

  THE MAIN IDEA WITH THIS THREAD
  I will in this thread seek to write down some info regarding Mind Control groups and how they operate. And Cults in their destructive aspects.
  I will touch upon various today wellknown groups, and what they have done in the past. And I will write about some of the techniques they use, so to make members of this forum aware of them, and so that they if they find it important can ask the leaders of their more or less theosophical groups how they relate to Mind Control issues and how thier groups Constitution and Rules, or Doctrin if any - avoid - being an example on the promotion of Mind Control aspects.

  - - -
  Here is example 1:
  An offshoot group of the Original Theosophical Society given in 1875 are today using a certain doctrine as its main focus.
  This group has a leader or two at the top and various assistents and members at the bottom. 
  The leaders is the one deciding how the doctrine aught to be interpreted. The Doctrine used is formulated in a set of books given by one single author on what is called the Real Theosophical Teachings.
  The group does not use comparative studying as one of its aims. Its aim is said to be to promote the wisdom teachings of all ages also called theosophy.
  Criticism of the leaders interpretation or of the doctrine is not allowed, if one want to become a member of such a group or organisation.
  Does such a group use Mind Control techniques in a destructive manner? And in what manner if yes or no to the first question?

  - - -
  A few definitions of certain words used my be in this thread...

  (1) Dogma and dogmatic: 
  Dogma is the established belief or doctrine held by a religion, ideology or any kind of organization: it is authoritative and not to be disputed, doubted, or diverged from. 

  (2) Mind control: 
  Mind control (also known as coercive persuasion, thought control, or thought reform) refers to a process in which a group or individual systematically uses unethically manipulative methods to persuade others to conform to the wishes of the manipulator(s), often to the detriment of the person being manipulated - Also implies leaders who disallow wellmeant criticism. 

  (3) Altruism: 
  Altruism is selfless concern for the welfare of others. 

  (4) Sectarian person: 
  A narrow or bigoted person or persons. 
  Sect: The term is occasionally used in a negative way to suggest the broken-off group follows a more negative path than the original. 

  Whereas the cult is able to enforce its norms and ideas against members, a sect normally doesn't strictly have "members" with definite obligations, only followers, sympathisers, supporters or believers. A sect may also have members which choose to leave later, which is allowed whereas a cult uses any means necessary to keep its members (including coercion). But a cult might also allow its members to leave, when they seek to do so.

  Bigotry added to explain the word sectarian: 
  A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices. The correct use of the term requires the elements of intolerance, irrationality, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs or views. 

  (5) Cult or rather Destructive Cult.
  A group or organisation whose leader(s) and/or doctrine more or less openly or hidden promotes the use of Mind Control elements as defined in the above. 
  It can be a religious group, but is not necessarily such a one. - A Destructive Cult promotes small value on how its activities and doctrines might disrupt family ties among its members and what the consequences of the children involved might be because of the Cults activities.

  All the above are just my views and questions.
  And I might be in error.

  M. Sufilight

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