Theos-Talk Archives (February 2011 Message tt00135)

Dear Martin and friends

My views are:

Allright. Interesting thoughts you have.

Martin wrote:
"many Theosophists have been working and are still 
working through secret agencies like the CIA, NSA etc."

M. Sufilight says:
Perhaps.
Do you have some solid evidence suporting this view, when saying "many Theosophists"?

Martin wrote:
"The problem with the 'coming 6th subrace in America' is the fact that it is 
based on dreams and deception. All the knowledge given out by Blavatsky and her 
teachers have been part of a trick to change the course of Humanity into a more 
harmonic way of living together. Knowledge really doesn't matter at all, it is 
about the Heart and when the Heart is experienced, Knowledge comes when needed, 
not the other way around"

M. Sufilight says:
I wonder whether the coming 6th subrace only is based on dreams and deception?
I can agree upon that a number of offshoots of the Theosophical Society promotes a view on the 6th subrace, which not really follow the view given by Blavatsky as far as I have understood her writings.
Yet in a time where a number of humans are dabbling with genetic engineering and cloning etc., I think one aught to consider what might happen as a result of this. Blavatsky mentioned, seeking to document it, in the Secret Doctrine,  that various monsters emerged in the 3rd rootrace just before the Kumaras arrived on Earth. An "intermediate races of monsters, half animals, half men, were produced". (See for instance Secret Doctrine, Vol. II, 53-56, 138, 184, 192(!) -). - Perhaps we first will witness a minor period with monsters, and "misfits", before the actual 6th subrace become visible. And on the other hand perhaps not.

About the "trick" to change humanity's course into something more harmonious, I will refer to something I have written more than one time at this forum...

"The use of ideas is to shape a man or woman, not to support a system - which is viewed in a limited manner. This is one way in which the Wisdom Tradition is 'living', and not just the perpetuations of ideas and movements. This seems important to understand and know about. "

And the above can, as I see it, also be said to cover the idea behind the Theosophical Society in 1875-1891, and to a certain extend also at least some of its later offshoots.

Yes, the spiritual Heart of compassion is central.
The cultivation of it happens, as I see it, at least in part, through promoting the importance of altruism, seeking the meaning of life,  and idea which is the one of the main aims of the Theosophical Society in its beginning: "to reconcile all religions, sects and nations under a common system of ethics, based on eternal verities." (See The Key To Theosophy, p. 2). And by helping people get aquainted with mutual teachings of age old philosophies, so to accomplish this. - And by avoiding getting entangled in politics and avoiding the negative use of the psychological term Mind Control,  as well as secterian behaviour, dogmatism included.

All the above are of course just my views and questions.
And I might be in error.



M. Sufilight


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Martin 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 6:16 PM
  Subject: Re: theos-talk Theosophical Classics: Re: Update on Secret Doctrine Commentaries


    
  The reason I sent that link to Lillie's book is the found assumption, the 
  Theosophical Society has been infiltrated since the fall of the "worldteacher" 
  Krishnamurti with Psy-Ops. many Theosophists have been working and are still 
  working through secret agencies like the CIA, NSA etc. 

  The problem with the 'coming 6th subrace in America' is the fact that it is 
  based on dreams and deception. All the knowledge given out by Blavatsky and her 
  teachers have been part of a trick to change the course of Humanity into a more 
  harmonic way of living together. Knowledge really doesn't matter at all, it is 
  about the Heart and when the Heart is experienced, Knowledge comes when needed, 
  not the other way around...No one can think himself into Love or Compassion for 
  that matter, this is why I stick to the only valid Concept of Theosophy: to form 
  an active brotherhood among men, all the rest is assumption....

  ________________________________
  From: M. Sufilight <global-theosophy@wwT_KHnr8M19KIr28olpSa2NICgB9H1fpJT5F4C2JCpQUc_94AV3ejFbsULKlHvInthzxuZ0wZYjLY1t3H5Dj_tTQduhRw.yahoo.invalid>
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Sat, February 26, 2011 5:41:37 PM
  Subject: Re: theos-talk Theosophical Classics: Re: Update on Secret Doctrine 
  Commentaries

  Dear MKR and friends

  My views are:

  Yes.
  People sometimes want rumours, assumptions, prejudice and above all a scandal or 
  two to raise their voice against more than seeking out the actual truth.

  The book by Arthur Lillie which was referenced earliere on in this thread did 
  not actually search out the truth, but assumed a whole lot, - and in fact more 
  than an really honest truthseeking person would do.

  - - -
  It all reminds me of the fact that I some month back by email asked the 
  Theosophical Society in America about whether it was a political Society today 
  since the present day Constitution had deleted parageaph XIII given in the old 
  1891 Contistution of the Theosophical Society. The fellow from TS America 
  answering was very polite and said that he was not allowed to speak behalf of 
  the Theosophical Society, and that only the International Headquarters in India 
  could give that answer. (A sidenote: When do members of the TS begin to think 
  for themeselves?) --- Now a year or so has gone by - And I have received NO 
  answer at all to this question. Adyar have however changed their website a bit. 
  But the Constituion of Theosophical Society is still sadly missing on the 
  website. I wonder what to make of this present day Theosophical Society?

  Se also my post april 2010 at Theos-talk:
  Serious Potential problems with TSA Bylaws 
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/54109

  ------

  The problem is that the TS today is not following the Original Programe, and I 
  think I have proven
  this in more than one e-mail at this forum. They follow something they call the
  "New Era" given by Annie Besant and others. And this "New Era" supported and
  still supports meddling with politics and a political involvement of the TS.
  This is what the TS Adyar website says today.

  Form the TS Adyar website we have, Feb. 2010:
  "With Mrs. Besant a new era began. She gave a great lead in making Theosophy
  practical, urging members to theosophize the various fields: religious, social,
  economic, political.

  Form the TS Adyar website we have, Feb. 2011:
  With Mrs Besant a new era began. She gave a great lead in making Theosophy 
  practical, urging members to apply the light of Theosophy to the various fields 
  of human activity: religious, social, economic, political, etc. 

  http://www.ts-adyar.org/content/early-history

  ThÃs not in accordance with the Original Programe, where no doctrinas exist to 
  be promoted!
  And POLITICS aught not to be endorsed and promoted by leading member of the TS 
  and Annie Besant did it, and turned herself into a walking lie, supporting the 
  English Crown under the
  Commonwealth so the world could be ruled by it with weapons and all.
  And she falsely claimed that H.S. Olcott and H. P. Blavatsky supported the
  creation of the National Congress of India in her book. "The future of Indian
  politics", 1922 - Published through the apparently NON-POLITICAL: The
  Theosophical Publishing House!

  A quote from "The future of Indian politics" by Annie Besant:
  "The new departure in 1913 resembled in one marked way the new departure when
  the National Congress was planned in 1884. The seed of both was planted by the
  Theosophical Society. It was at the Theosophical Convention of that year that a
  small group of earnest Theo-sophists â deeply concerned for the political
  future of their country and aroused to a sense of her past powers and her then
  present impotence by the awakening crusades of H. P. Blavatsky and Henry Steele
  Olcott, stirring the educated to self-respect and res-pect for their Nation â
  meeting in Adyar, decided to make an effort for political redemption".
  (http://www.archive.org/details/futureofindianpo00besarich)

  Until the TS Adyar and all other theosophical groups clearly add what they or
  others previously have deleted in the ORIGINAL Constitution and Rules given 
  1875-1891 about offences on political involvements by members of the TS, I will 
  consider their activities
  not to be in accordance with the Original Programe and therefore ask them for a
  proper explanation about why they have such a stance as the one given by Annie
  Besant in the above? 
  Have any member on this forum ever been given an answer to this???

  Here are the words, which were deleted after 1891:
  "CONSTITUTION AND RULES OF THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY"
  ...
  "ARTICLE XIII
  Offences

  1. Any Fellow who shall in any way attempt to involve the Society In political
  disputes shall be immediately expelled.

  2. No Fellow, Officer, or Council of the Theosophical Society, or of any Section 
  or Branch thereof, shall promulgate or maintain any doctrinas being that 
  advanced, or advocated by the Society. "
  (signed H. S. Olcott and seven other names B. Keightley being one of them, and
  later published in The Theosophist, January 1891.)
  http://www.global-theosophy.net/ts_constitution_rules.php

  The Theosophical Society (Adyar)
  Members Area 
  http://www.teozofija.info/tsmembers/tsindex.htm

  Now when TS Adyar are willing to admit that the TS in the past under the
  leadership of Annie Besant deviated from the Original Programe, which I quoted
  in part in the above, I think we can start something real, which will lead
  towards progress. Until then, I will with good reason keep quesitoning any
  leading members at TS Adyar, how they find that the Masters can be supporting
  the TS Adyar as it operates today - in comparison with the above words and
  quotes, when we consider the Liberal Catholic Church (which its doctrine on
  blessing a Church Bell with 15 crosses by the use of chalk), its priests
  Absolutions, its "holy" baptisms, its funeral ceremonials and its Apostolic
  Succesions etc. etc. on the TS Adyar Compounds. Such promotions must be
  rejected.

  Remember H. P. Blavatsky often spoke out against the Christianizing of the
  visdom teachings through the centuries, and attempts on it on the TS as well.
  The Original Programe written about by Blavatsky stated: 
  "But if the two Founders were not told what they
  had to do, they were distinctly instructed about what they should never do, what
  they had to avoid, and what the Society should never become. Church
  organizations, Christian and Spiritual sects were shown as the future contrasts
  to our Society. " (BCW, Vol. VII, p. 145-146)

  Two questions:
  - Is there anyone on this forum who is aware of when the above article XIII were
  actually deleted from the Constitution and Rules of the TS, and why it actually
  were deleted?
  - Do you find that the Theosophical Society Adyar with its churches on its HQ 
  compound today year 2011 operate as a contrast to Church organisations and 
  Christian sects? (Also inside its Church of St Michael and All Angels? - 
  http://www.ts-adyar.org/node/97)

  All the above are of course just my views.
  And I might be in error.

  - - -
  Is it not a puzzle why I almost never get a clear and precise answer to this by 
  any of the leading members of the Theosophical Society???
  Yet, I hold that silence is also an answer.

  At least it is to me, who claim to have experienced a being looking exactly like 
  H. P. Blavatsky materialise in my appartment about 2 years ago, with whom I 
  talked briefly. And that I have meet her or someone quite similar when Astral 
  travelling and talked with her for several minutes.

  M. Sufilight

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: MKR 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 4:10 PM
  Subject: Re: theos-talk Theosophical Classics: Re: Update on Secret Doctrine 
  Commentaries

  Thanks for the research and posting the info.

  HPB would have had no problem in traveling in Northern India since there are
  quite a few native Indians with very light skin and in Indian attire no one
  will doubt she was a foreigner.

  I was also stuck by her comment on doctor's certificate and how people will
  accuse that it was bought. In the 2008 election similar comments were made
  even after there were certificates from three doctors from two continents.
  That is the way how world reacts when they do not want to believe.

  MKR

  On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 2:20 AM, M. Sufilight
  <global-theosophy@wwT_KHnr8M19KIr28olpSa2NICgB9H1fpJT5F4C2JCpQUc_94AV3ejFbsULKlHvInthzxuZ0wZYjLY1t3H5Dj_tTQduhRw.yahoo.invalid>wrote:

  >
  >
  > Dear friends
  >
  > The following might help a bit more...
  >
  > H. P. Blavatsky wrote to Sinnett who was preparing his book about her:
  > "I saw Master in my visions ever since my childhood. In the year of the
  > first Nepaul Embassy (when?) saw and recognised him. Saw him twice. Once he
  > came out of the crowd, then He ordered me to meet Him in Hyde Park. I
  > cannot, I must not speak of this. I would not publish it for the"
  > "world. See the harm the Occult World has done to me with all your kind,
  > good intention. Had you not named my relatives, my inner life, my visit to
  > Tibet, no one would have believed me more of a fraud than they do now. So
  > you see. Let us leave my poor aunts and my relatives names out of the book,
  > I implore you. Enough dirt accumulated on one of the family, do let us not
  > drag holy names and names I respect into the book and thus sentence them
  > beforehand to mangling.
  >
  > 3. Went to India in 1856 -- just because I was longing for Master.
  > Travelled from place to place, never said I was Russian, people taking me
  > for what I liked. Met Kulwein and his friend at Lahore somewhere. Were I to
  > describe my visit to India only in that year that would make a whole book,
  > but how can I NOW say the truth. Suppose I were to tell that I was in manâs
  > clothes (for I was very thin then) which is solemn truth, what would people
  > say? So I was in Egypt with the old Countess who liked to see me dressed as
  > a man student, âgentleman studentâ she said. Now you understand my
  > difficulties? That which would pass with any other as eccentricity, oddity,
  > would serve now only to incriminate me in the eyes of the world. Went with
  > Dutch vessel because there was no other, I think. Master ordered [me] to go
  > to Java for a certain business. There were two whom I suspected always of
  > being chelas there. I saw one of them in 1869 at the Mahatmaâs house, and
  > recognised him, but he denied.
  > 4. âThe incident of the adoption of the child!â I better be hung than
  > mention it. Do you know if even withholding names what it would lead to? To
  > a hurricane of dirt thrown at me. When I told you that even my own father
  > suspected me, and had it not been for the doctorâs certificate would have
  > never forgiven me, perhaps. After, he pitied and loved that poor cripple
  > child. On reading this book Home, the medium, would be the first one to
  > gather the remnant of his strength and denounce me, giving out names and
  > things and what not. Well my dear Mr. Sinnett if you would ruin me (though
  > it is hardly possible now) we shall mention this âincident.â Do not mention
  > any, this is my advice and prayer. I have done too much toward proving and
  > swearing it was mineâand have overdone the thing. The doctorâs certificate
  > will go for nothing. People will say we bought or bribed the doctor thatâs
  > all.
  >
  > 5. Yes, returned to relations in Jan. 1860.
  >
  > 6. Yes, about â62 went with my sister to Tiflis, left it about â64 and went
  > to Servia, travelled about in Karpat all as I explain in my story about the
  > Double. The Hospodar was killed in the beginning of 1868 I think (see
  > Encylopaedia), when I was in Florence after Mentana and on my way to India
  > with Master from Constantinople."
  > (H.P.Blavatsky's Letters to A.P. Sinnett, p. 151)
  >
  > It seems that at least a part of Blavatsky's training occurred outside of
  > Tibet!
  >
  > M. Sufilight
  >
  >
  > ----- Original Message -----
  > From: MKR
  > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
  > Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 3:12 PM
  > Subject: Re: theos-talk Theosophical Classics: Re: Update on Secret
  > Doctrine Commentaries
  >
  > HPB traveled in the United States dressed like a male and I am sure it
  > worked when she visited Tibet as well.
  >
  > On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 7:33 AM, M. Sufilight
  > <global-theosophy@wwT_KHnr8M19KIr28olpSa2NICgB9H1fpJT5F4C2JCpQUc_94AV3ejFbsULKlHvInthzxuZ0wZYjLY1t3H5Dj_tTQduhRw.yahoo.invalid>wrote:
  >
  > >
  > >
  > > Thanks.
  > > I had not read that one by Arthur Lillie.
  > >
  > > But I do find Arthur Lillie to be more or less ignorant, although he
  > > touches some very interesting historical events. His bewilderment about
  > > Blavatsky entering Tibet in 1856 - can be cleared by the fact that she
  > > passed as a male. She was very thin at that time, and with her looks and
  > a
  > > bit of magic she succeded. (smile.) I also think something similar is
  > > written somewhere by her own hand.
  > >
  > > M. Sufilight
  > >
  > >
  > > ----- Original Message -----
  > > From: Martin
  > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
  > > Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 11:54 PM
  > > Subject: Re: theos-talk Theosophical Classics: Re: Update on Secret
  > > Doctrine Commentaries
  > >
  > > Lol, I just found out Annie Wood Besant is family as well to my family
  > (as
  > > is
  > > Blavatsky), my niece Nathaly Wood, named after the famous N.Wood, is
  > > daughter of
  > > a Scottish heir. The Wood family took its name in the 17th century after
  > my
  > > own
  > > name 'Tak' which Anglified is Wood...
  > > Another thing to read is a maybe unknown writter Arthur Lillie, who wrote
  > a
  > >
  > > interesting book on Blavatsky...found in the digital archives...
  > >
  > >
  >http://ia700401.us.archive.org/16/items/madameblavatsky00unkngoog/madameblavatsky00unkngoog.pdf
  >f
  > >
  > > ________________________________
  > > From: MKR <mkr777@E2u9B-r3FwdTgm6zBkPN68YIyClNeg4atFAgisZFNHiuwy1oDiRXkG7T6ficVbfYUzgHqBf-Da3M3A.yahoo.invalid>
  > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
  > > Sent: Mon, February 21, 2011 11:27:22 PM
  > > Subject: Re: theos-talk Theosophical Classics: Re: Update on Secret
  > > Doctrine
  > > Commentaries
  > >
  > > Also there is the possibility of some one having downloaded the entire
  > > website. If so we can retrieve everything.
  > >
  > > On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 2:29 PM, John W <JohnWW@lvNxuvO530GjWrOPlk9LedgK85e2y-i7MCLHbf8KeWmUYbMm54BMhWsWmPoushYxOk7ixiutFNH2dUg.yahoo.invalid> wrote:
  > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > Can you please tell us what were the titles that were on that site as
  > PDF
  > > > or DJVU files? I would be able to search for downloads of them
  > elsewhere
  > > on
  > > > the internet using Google. Also, what was the URL of the site that had
  > > them?
  > > > It may have been archived on http://www.archive.org , which also hosts
  > > > many old out-of-copyright Theosophical books as PDFs or DJVUs.
  > > >
  > > > John W.
  > > >
  > > > --- On Mon, 21/2/11, Konstantin Zaitzev <kay_ziatz@1zOlIuza74KdiME5ToxbOIQ2HdaE5nODqTrIcXrGorIzfBNjsnI6aWFRcg4K74UEMQrAt-fPQFXTLiDPJg.yahoo.invalid> wrote:
  > > > From: Konstantin Zaitzev <kay_ziatz@1zOlIuza74KdiME5ToxbOIQ2HdaE5nODqTrIcXrGorIzfBNjsnI6aWFRcg4K74UEMQrAt-fPQFXTLiDPJg.yahoo.invalid>
  > > > Subject: theos-talk Theosophical Classics: Re: Update on Secret
  > Doctrine
  > > > Commentaries
  > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
  > > > Date: Monday, 21, February, 2011, 8:02 PM
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, MKR <mkr777@...> wrote:
  > > >
  > > > Theosophical Classics:
  > > >
  > > > > Someone had uploaded it some time ago and it was on the net for a
  > > >
  > > > > couple of days before it was taken down due to copyright violation.
  > > >
  > > > > I am sure many theosophists have downloaded it before it was taken
  > > >
  > > > > down and seems to be making rounds.
  > > >
  > > > Really it was online for several months or even more with many other
  > > > copyrighted books but now the site is down.
  > > >
  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > >
  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > >
  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > >
  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > >
  > >
  > >
  >
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  >
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  >
  > 
  >

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