Theos-Talk Archives (February 2011 Message tt00069)

I thought you guys might be interested in this. Lenny

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Holvenstot Christopher <cholvenstot@GdguQ78brYQoxqfCVmIgS4uhJWT-yG6claubfF2PSOyI8dkO7tRaR5geFMtiJSxcZhsHvKVVekvVLdw.yahoo.invalid>
> Date: February 7, 2011 8:08:37 AM EST
> To: leonmaurer@Bq11D-1OLxbXV_GYVzkbcoz775l2oeNHG3COmKf_cJNNP-N9ZREXuz3pTPTuIVEXRs1XGKQbHGA.yahoo.invalid
> 
> BEAUTIFUL post!! 
> 
> From: Leon Maurer <leonmaurer@Bq11D-1OLxbXV_GYVzkbcoz775l2oeNHG3COmKf_cJNNP-N9ZREXuz3pTPTuIVEXRs1XGKQbHGA.yahoo.invalid>
> Date: February 6, 2011 7:02:13 PM EST
> To: jcs-online@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [jcs-online] Let's get serious about consciousness
> Reply-To: jcs-online@yahoogroups.com
> 
> David (and all others wanting to get serious about consciousness)
> 
> You are correct that phenomenal consciousness (the experience of qualia) is dependent on the processing of the brain necessary to transform the images or energies reflected or projected from the objects of perception (and detected by the sense organs) into a form that can be experienced by our individual center(s) of consciousness.  But you are wrong in implying that the actual awareness, will and understanding of consciousness is a function of the brain or its neural processes.  Obviously, the processor is not the perceiver, the knower, or the thinker/doer/actor.
> 
> So, we still have no real explanation of what it is within us (which is unique to each of us) that actually experiences the image information projected or reflected from the objects of perception and processed by the brain.  Nor have we ever been able to explain what form that processed information is in ? which enables us to perceive it after reconstructing it holographically (so as to match the actual source), separate each sense perception channel from the other, and to distinguish all the nuances of each individual sensory impression... Such as the colors, shades and tones of visual images we see, the meaning of the words we read and the sounds we hear, as well as the localized touches, tastes, and smells we experience directly through the individual cellular sense organs.  And, what about the will or intent?  How does the brain processing fit in with any of that, other than acting as a transformer/distributor/channeler of willed information to control neuro-muscular movements? 
> 
> In addition, we would also need to explain how we can determine the exact 3-D geometric placement of each point in or on the object of perception in coordinate relationship with the mental image perceived... Which includes, explaining our ability to place any portion of the body within the 3-D space surrounding it, as well as determine the exact location of any point within that space ? while coordinating the trajectories of each individual moving object in conjunction with our body positions in 3-D space.  This is a process of analog GPS computation that has yet to be addressed, but which has never yet been explained in terms of material processes in the brain.  
> 
> So, knowing the neural correlates of such conscious experiences, does nothing to explain them.  
> 
> And, as I see it, the only explanations we can make with respect to subjective consciousness and its relations to objective matter, must be in conjunction with the holographic principle, along with the understanding that consciousness, per se, is not material, and that all matter is made up of harmonically resonant standing wave fields that carry and transmit the information of their structural forms, as well as the information of consciousness, as holograms or wave interference patterns on their surfaces.  The simplicity of that, relative to the complexity of fragmented linear/sequential neural processing, as currently presumed by neuroscientists, is self evident.  
> 
> Accordingly, the necessary element or ingredient needed to fully explain the experience of consciousness ? is the source of that (aspect of total space) which perceives, comprehends, and responds to the sensory image information after the brain processes it (after the non local sense organs detect and receive it).  
> 
> The evidence that such a subjective element exists at the end of the neural process or other transformation of sensory image information is entirely self experiential... And requires no objective proof.  Neither does the "unconsciousness" that responds to the information that is necessarily carried by these fields which controls the autonomic processes of life support, or the learned procedures we can perform without conscious thought (such as playing music, driving a car, riding a bicycle, etc., etc.), or even our knee jerk response to the wrong views about reality that we have been conditioned to believe without question by our parents, teachers, preachers and other trusted "authorities". 
> 
> In addition, it is entirely logical that the conscious detector and discriminator of all such information ? which necessarily must be in the form of frequency and amplitude modulated energy vibrations of extremely complex and infinitesimally small differentiations ? would have to be, in itself, entirely motionless.  Note that we see the world from a single stationary point of visual consciousness located in the exact center of our head behind the eyes and between the ears.  Could this be anything other than seeing the spherical surface of the surrounding visual field from its zero-point center? 
> 
> Consequently, the only aspect of total space which has such a characteristic of absolute stasis would be the underlying etheric BEC medium of absolute unconditioned space at zero degrees Kelvin... And, the mediums of mind and memory, which are capable of carrying and transmitting such information, would necessarily be the higher orders of (frequency-mass-energy) electromagnetic fields surrounding their ZPE source at each center of individual consciousness.  IOW, both consciousness and mind/memory fields would have to be fundamental aspects of the underlying Aether, out of which every observable material thing manifests. 
> 
> So while I am sorry you are leaving this forum, I feel that the unfounded belief in a materialist basis of consciousness is not a reasonable ground for serious discussion designed to arrive at an understanding of the actual cause, nature, experience and mechanisms of perception, cognition, mind, memory, etc., or explain their interrelationship with brain, body, senses, material objects, space, time, etc., etc....  
> 
> And, further, that no amount of consensus of preconceived opinions (based on false materialist beliefs or faith in a separate god) can substitute for pure logical reasoning and deduction ? based on fundamental principles ? which starts from zero and progresses outward to infinity... With such principles being; (1) Absolute unconditioned origin of both consciousness and matter in interdependent unison; (2) Immutable law of cycles and periodicity, coupled with fractal harmonic involutional and evolutional transformation, based on infinite ZP spin momentum; (3) purposeful conscious experience of infinite potentialities of phenomenal existence and evolutional progress toward ultimate perfection (that may never be obtainable, yet is asymptotically approachable). 
> 
> However, I fully understand and agree with the possible reason you have become fed up with these forums ? which , after tens of thousands of letters and millions of wasted words have never been able to arrive at a satisfactory theory of consciousness or thoroughly explain its cause, nature and mechanisms...  Why?  Because, apparently, most of their correspondents have not yet been able to realize that there can be only one universal consciousness, one force, and one law ? which together have infinite potential manifest possibilities... Thus, implying, that both infinite information and infinite time (or eternal duration) are also fundamental aspects of unconditioned absolute space... And, further indicating that everything that manifests out of it (in accord with its eternal memory of past cycles of involution and evolution) is an illusion of consciousness that comes and goes cyclically ? as governed by fundamental law.
> 
> Individually, in our separate human bodies, unfortunately, we can only partake and experience a minuscule portion of those aspects of total reality ? which are, apparently, constantly changing unpredictably in time, due to the random actions of individual consciousnesses based on a wrong belief in their separateness, or a selfish desire to serve their own needs without regard to the effect on others.
> 
> Apparently, when all (or at least the majority of) clear thinking human beings on Earth realize their absolute unity in their true conscious nature, and the power of their collective awareness/will is focussed on a single aim, purpose, and goal ? so as to live in harmonically orchestrated liberty, and independent unity in diversity ? their commonly perceived world will change, from the disharmonious mess it is in now (heading toward ultimate collapse), to the paradise it could eventually become.
> 
> Best wishes,
> Leon Maurer
> http://www.jcer.com/index.php/jcj/article/view/85
> 
> 
> On Jan 31, 2011, at 1/31/118:52 AM, DFr9895974@WhLes-GvhCaT1rodRNGXDOA0A8JYP8ipd0ovyZ9Wy7rg1uR0KmU5ubpNiT5iullyBzArNzCykt0.yahoo.invalid wrote:
> 
>> I am signing off from this forum now, but before I go I would  like to 
>> justify my subject heading.
>> #
>> 
>> Being serious about  consciousness means subscribing to the following 
>> principle: 
>> # 
>> Consciousness is  dependent on the transmission of information in the brain 
>> by electrical  impulses. We can argue about whether that information is 
>> encoded in rates of  neuronal firing within their signalling patterns, 
>> oscillating rhythms  within neuronal populations and networks, or local field 
>> potentials associated  with electrical charges on neuronal membranes; or a 
>> combination of all three. We  can also debate the areas of critical activity within 
>> brain regions. There is no  evidence that anything else can encode 
>> information at a level required to  integrate sensations, memories, emotions, and 
>> cognition ? the prime ingredients  of consciousness. 
>> # 
>> To deny this is like  denying that temperature is a measure of molecular 
>> energy, or that genetic  inheritance relies on DNA, and is not worthy of 
>> serious  discussion. 
>> # 
>> For those who believe  some extra ingredient is required to explain 
>> consciousness they have to say  where it enters into the process and what evidence 
>> there is for  that.  
>> Regards to all, 
>> David Friend
>> 
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