Theos-Talk Archives (February 2011 Message tt00016)

Have you looked at Ernest Wood's book on Concentration as a start?

On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 8:53 PM, Joshua <joshuachad@6qS5WtWot0ruzCBHDeO95aZ5hLBFw16mmAMBQNSWx1smGnpjXJ4Ib--2FqBqKD2JMSyrhoQcDI1J6mX2.yahoo.invalid> wrote:

>
>
> Dear Morten,
> Please accept my apologies for ignorance, but i dont recall ever reading
> anything on "dangers" of meditation without a guide. Just curious if you
> have anything worth reading regarding that as I would be interested.
>
> Joshua
>
> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 4:28 PM, M. Sufilight
> <global-theosophy@fYCDZrd6VKbJhPBI_EL2sSXb1BnqMuXWSK7n6xgrWcxMOUqB0D5PGOB9kEgjG1MNnDk_Somo-Z5hYk_a_Ka6FXXvUOY.yahoo.invalid <global-theosophy%40stofanet.dk>>wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> > Dear Govert
> >
> > My views are:
> >
> > I agree on the below views by you except the following words:
> >
> >
> > "The fourth possibility left over is that both Theosophy and
> Krishnamurti,
> > as inspiring as they might be, are seriously flawed. "
> >
> > Theosophy is as we know defined as the exact science on Psychology by the
> > founders of The Theosophical Society.
> >
> > Krishnamurti's teachings are flawed no doubt there, since it can be
> proven,
> > when compared to other theosophical versions - and age old teachings from
> > various traditions. Yet, one cannot reject the fact that some of his
> > teachings are very helpful to some Seekers after truth, despite some the
> > dangers it contains with regard to meditation without a guide and a
> blurred
> > stance on Messiah-emotionalism etc..
> >
> >
> > M. Sufilight
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Govert Schuller
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%
> 40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 8:45 PM
> > Subject: Re: theos-talk Re: JK -assumption - The Messiah and Pope
> > crutch...and its Descendants- smile
> >
> > Dear Morten,
> >
> > In this instance the words conviction, assumption and conclusion would
> all
> > be interchangeable. It doesn't matter too much whether he had the idea of
> > methodless enlightenment as an assumption, opperative in the background,
> or
> > as a conclusion, openly propagated. The crux is that Krishnamurti didn't
> > have any proof for his position and from a Theosophical pov was
> dangerously
> > wrong. He might have thought he himself got there in the (non-)way he
> > advocated others to get there, but, if you read his biography and take
> > Theosophical ideas into consideration, it looks like he went through many
> > steps before he 'liberated' himself.
> >
> > On the other hand, if you really belief he liberated himself, you'll have
> > to take his pronouncements about Theosophy serious, and come to terms
> with
> > his wholesale denouncements.
> >
> > A reconciliation between the two creates too many contradictions and
> > so-called 'cognative dissonances' that I don't see that as a serious
> > alternative anymore.
> >
> > The fourth possibility left over is that both Theosophy and Krishnamurti,
> > as inspiring as they might be, are seriously flawed.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: M. Sufilight
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%
> 40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 1:47 PM
> > Subject: Re: theos-talk Re: JK -assumption - The Messiah and Pope
> > crutch...and its Descendants- smile
> >
> > Dear Govert
> >
> > My views are:
> >
> > You quoted:
> > "he was wrong in assuming that everyone else, regardless of past Karma
> and
> > present limitations, could instantly reach that point which he himself
> had
> > only reached through lives of effort, and by the aid of those Cosmic
> Forces
> > apportioned to him solely for his office as Herald of the New Age. "
> >
> > The question that come to my mind is whether Krishnamurti really assumed
> > this or just communicated as if people could understand it - and thereby
> -
> > perhaps deliberately tagetting only a certain audience?
> > I find that he at least, later in his life it seems to me, that he did
> not
> > assume it.
> > However, many beginner seekers lost a lot in the years just after 1929
> > because of the angle of communication of more or less pseudo-Adwaita
> > teachings he choose. That is what I get out of it all.
> >
> > When considering Krishnamurti's teachings, I did not find a
> multi-cultural
> > angle on comparative studying, and not a teachings on the problems with
> Mind
> > Control (coercive techniques) despite this science was in its infancy
> > already in the 1920-ties, and no importance given on what other teachers
> of
> > the past have said, no importance given to myths and legends and
> allegorical
> > thinking - and their capabilities to convey higher levels of knowledge
> (not
> > after 1929 or so), and no importance given to extra sensory perception
> and
> > the dangers of meditation, and primary emphasis on the use of a
> terminology
> > which is dry and which lack words talking to the heart compared talking
> to
> > the mind. Yet he could be affectionate form time time, as we can see on
> > record film-clips. - But maybe I have not been digging hard enough into
> his
> > strange formulations?
> >
> > M. Sufilight
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Govert Schuller
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%
> 40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 5:34 PM
> > Subject: Re: theos-talk Re: The Messiah and Pope crutch...and its
> > Descendants- smile
> >
> > Sadhak asked:
> >
> > "Do these folks have a memo to this effect from Maitreya as well?!"
> >
> > To which I can answer: Yes, they do!
> >
> > See:
> >
> > Chapter IX in Through the Eyes of the Masters: Meditations and Portraits
> > (London: Routledge, 1932, 2nd Ed. 1936, 3rd Ed. 1947) by David Anrias
> [Brian
> > Ross], pp. 65-69.
> >
> >
> http://www.alpheus.org/html/source_materials/scott_anrias/maitreya_da.html
> >
> > You who have studied the horoscope of Krishnamurti know that he is
> > incapable of compromising with the past; also that he was reinforced in
> his
> > seemingly destructive work by those great Devas of the Air, who, under
> > direction of the Lords of Karma, are helping Man to polarize himself
> towards
> > spiritual rather than material conquests.
> > In order to co-operate more completely with the Devas, Krishnamurti took
> > initiations along their line of evolution. The essential nature of these
> > Devas, used as agents of the Great Law, being perforce impersonal and
> > detached, it came by degrees to influence his whole point of view, making
> > him appear unsympathetic and even inhuman. Furthermore, since he had
> > attained these initiations in the causal body by a positive effort of
> > consciousness, it became all but impossible for him to be used any longer
> as
> > my medium.
> >
> > Every astrological sign has its limitations, and that of the Aquarian is
> > the tendency to become too introspective and self-sufficient, thereby
> losing
> > contact with other types of men and their lines of development. Thus
> > although Krishnamurti was right to emphasize the necessity for
> independent
> > thought, he was wrong in assuming that everyone else, regardless of past
> > Karma and present limitations, could instantly reach that point which he
> > himself had only reached through lives of effort, and by the aid of those
> > Cosmic Forces apportioned to him solely for his office as Herald of the
> New
> > Age.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: sadhak1008
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%
> 40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 9:10 PM
> > Subject: theos-talk Re: The Messiah and Pope crutch...and its
> Descendants-
> > smile
> >
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%
> 40yahoogroups.com>, "M.
> > Sufilight" <global-theosophy@...> wrote:
> > >
> >
> > > I find it interesting because oriental languages (especially Sanskrit
> and
> > Tibetan) are far better in revealing subjective expressions - especially
> > philosophical ones according to many who have learned these languages.
> And
> > the heavy use of western expressions which now fills volumes of volumes
> on
> > the bookshelves in various so-called theosophical groups - must therefore
> > certainly lack something vital.
> >
> > For what it is worth, in the case of Master KH, instructions were given
> > soon after discovery that the boy Krishnamurti must be well versed in
> > English first and foremost, then other languages like French. Sanskrit
> was
> > deliberately avoided, IMO, precisely because of the enromous amounts of
> > gobbledygook built up over centuries which makes it easy for every street
> > corner teacher to come up with his own translation/interpretation.
> >
> > > "Then I take it, Sir Thomas," I ventured to ask, "you don't altogether
> > approve of
> > > Krishnamurti's methods?"
> > > "Unfortunately he has no proper methods since he took the Arhat
> > initiation, and ceased to be
> > > the medium for the Lord Maitreya. Better if he had retired from public
> > life to meditate in
> > > seclusion, as Arhats did initiation," I whispered to the man beside me.
> > > "It's the one in which the Master withdraws all guidance from His
> pupil,
> > who may have to
> > > negotiate the most difficult problems without being allowed to ask any
> > question," he explained; "
> >
> > Very happy to learn that the Lord Maitreya himself had given such a
> > detailed explanation about why/how he stopped using Krishnamurti as a
> > 'medium'. Do these folks have a memo to this effect from Maitreya as
> well?!
> >
> > > "And so what did Krishnamurti do?" my host interpolated, obviously
> having
> > heard. "Like the proverbial manservant who knows he's about to be given
> > notice, he gave notice first. In other
> > > words, he cut himself adrift from the white lodge, and repudiated all
> of
> > us."
> >
> > Ah,knew this was coming. It always does. Repudiated all of US. The
> > important US! If only he had not done that, WE would hail him as the
> > pristine World Teacher!
> >
> > >Also instead of giving forth the new Teaching so badly needed, he
> escaped
> > from the
> > > responsibilities of his office as prophet and teacher by reverting
> >
> > So the NEW teaching was already known to these people ( then how was it
> > going to be NEW) and they figured out (by repudiating US) he was not
> giving
> > the new teaching. Great stuff, this.
> >
> > > 58
> > > flaw in this pseudo-Advaita which Krishnamurti is giving out,>
> >
> > Sheesh! The least these people could have done before sticking their
> > collective feet in their mouth was to listen to a great Advaita master
> like
> > Ramana Maharshi. He found the same Krishnamurti teachings to be beyond
> his
> > expression. Seems for most of these characters in this article, it was
> way
> > beyond their comprehension.
> >
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> >
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>  
>


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