Theos-Talk Archives (June 2010 Message tt00071)

Dear Frank

My views are:

I think you are missing the point a bit.
But you are as I see it throwing some important views as well.

1.
Frank you wrote:
"So there is really no reason to ban universal brotherhood among all lineages as all made mistakes and all altered the original teachings, the one more, the other less.

And there is no reason to prevent comparing the various theosophical lineages, both historically and from content of the teachings."

M. Sufilight says:
But, that is exactly the point.
Should H. P. Blavatsky in her time have joined hands with Hiram Butler and Ohmart and their esoteric Boston School? And the same with Charles Sotheran, who wanted to kill and murder in the name of the TS, and because of that were thrown out? And Elliot Coues Esoteric Theosophical Society, which HPB warned about? And the Ancient Accepted Scottish Rite, who asked her to be High Priestess in their dualistic world?

The truth is Frank, and I think you agree: There are limitations to what aught to be and will be accepted by the Himalayan Masters, when one wants to promote the original TS Programe.

How can the various theosphical groups today avoid fanatical teachings or seekers, if they do not relate their teachings to the psychological keys on fanatism, dogmatism, indoktrination, mind control, and even brainwashing and hypnosis?
This was the aim with my previous e-mail.

- - - - - - -
We all sit as frogs in our own little wells as Vivekananda rightly said in 1893 in his speech at the Parliament of the World Religions. It is by telling the truth about the dangers we see in each other, that there can be reached a Brotherhood between groups. It is by meeting face to face, and not by chicken out that things happen. Theosophists are known to act, but few are the workers it seems. Others are simply not ready, they have not understood the difference between fanaticism, dogmatism and secterian behaviour. And their leaders are unwilling to understand it, for lack of heart or other failures.


- - - - - - -


ABOUT THE ORIGINAL PROGRAME
*** See HPB Collected Writings, vol. VII, p. 145 - http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v7/yxxxx_019.htm 
*** See also the Key to Theosophy, 2nd ed. 1890, p.1-25 and other pages on the levels of TS Membership etc.-
http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/aKEY.htm

***
H. P. Blavatsky said in her Esoteric Section papers:
"Let all members, therefore, take warning in time, and seriously examine into their motives, for to all those who join this Section certain consequences will ensue.
And at this stage it is perhaps better that the applicants should learn the reason for the formation of this Section, and what it is expected to achieve:ââ
The Theosophical Society has just entered upon the fourteenth year of its existence; and if it has accomplished great, one may almost say stupendous, results on the exoteric and utilitarian plane, it has proved a dead failure on all those points which rank foremost among the objects of its original establishment. Thus, as a âUniversal Brotherhood,â or even as a fraternity, one among many, it has descended to the level of all those Societies whose pretensions are great, but whose names are simply masks,âânay, even SHAMS. "
.......
"For this reason it is now contemplated to gather the âelectâ of the T.S. and to call them to action. It is only by a select group of brave souls, a handful of determined men and women hungry for genuine spiritual development and the acquirement of soul-wisdom, that the Theosophical Society at large can be brought back to its original lines. It is through an Esoteric Section aloneââi.e., a group in which all the members, even if unacquainted with one another, work for each other, and by working for all work for themselvesââthat the great Exoteric Society may be redeemed and made to realize that in union and harmony alone lie its strength and power. The object of this Section, then, is to help the future growth of the Theosophical Society as a whole in the true direction, by promoting brotherly union at least among the few."
(See HPB Collected Writings, vol. XII, p. 489-490 -http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v12/y1890_052.htm )


So we cannot just enrol everyone, can we?
The endresult will enevitably be the ruin of the TS all over again, will it not?

My view is - Quality members first - Quanitiy later.
Today others throw quality away too much.
If people want to dabble with theosophy without taking it seriously, by all means let them.
The planet is already rich with various TS offshoots or claimed successions of the TS or its Esoteric Section. Let them join them instead.

And let us tell them, why we find they are not doing a proper effort, when they are not.
A tree shall be known on its fruits.

We can debate about all and everything, but even in the old magazine the Theosophist not all articles was allowed to be printed. More afterthought seem important; something westerners by the way tend to forget when they e-mail as if they were alcoholics or something worse.

But these are my views.

- - -
2.
Frank wrote:
"Most theosophists have not even an idea what a living teacher is and what their trained chelas are and who and where such higher persons worked within the Theosophical Movement."

M. Sufilight says:
This is an important sentence from you as far as I am concerned.
And yes, you are quite right on one level of thought.

As I have said often:
"The bitter truth is that before man can know his own inadequacy, or the competence of another man or institution, he must first learn something which will enable him to perceive both. Note well that his perception itself is a product of right study; not of instinct or emotional attraction to the individual, nor yet of desiring to 'go it alone'. This is 'Learning How To Learn.' " 
.......
"Therefore, before the techniques of study and development are made available to the student, he must be enabled to profit by them in the direction in which they are supposed to lead, not in short-term indulgence." 

"Thus our curriculum takes two parts: the first is in the providing of materials of a preparatory nature, in order to equip the individual to become a student. The second is the development itself." 

- - -
My view is:
Therefore a great number of wellmeaning (mind you) Seekers can become members of the first level in the original programe of the TS. (And some already are so in other groups bearing another name than the TS or theosophical). There they can compare and study and follow the second object of the original programe. But if they cannot follow the first object about Universal Brotherhood of Humanity, they will have to wait outside the gates of the second level of membership. - Let us remember that in 1875-1891, a great number of members were real intellectuals of their day. Today various kinds of lunatics or fanatics seem to be enrolled, and we ask whether this is a healthy strategy? - And some groups calling themselves TS or theosophical or esoteric have not even reached the first level of membership, because they have rejected comparative studying at the doorstep. - Therefore to reach the scond level of membership something else seem in need to be required to follow the above words by Blavatsky, - that is at least a quite logical conclusion; ie. so not to create the same problems again and again. - And there we have the need for each one of us to prepare our own selves first and study materials of a prepatory nature. - When the Seeker is ready the teacher arrives, it is not the otherway around. --- It is the same thing at Universities, they neither enrol everyone.

But these are my views.


- - -
3.
Frank wrote:
"So there is really no reason to ban universal brotherhood among all lineages as all made mistakes and all altered the original teachings, the one more, the other less.

And there is no reason to prevent comparing the various theosophical lineages, both historically and from content of the teachings."

M. Sufilight says:
Exactly. And especially the last sentence is the great obstacle when we look at great many number of theosophical groups these days. They avoid this at all costs, and refuse to explain why.
Yet when comparing lineages, one do not start out at the top, but rather at the root cause of the cleavage as far as I am concerned.

The question, which remain is how far should one be willing to build bridges to various groups, when they look more and more like Jesuits disguised like Mahatmas? Take the Liberal Catholic Church as an example.


H. P. Blavatsky said:
"The Society founded to remedy the glaring evils of Christianity, to shun bigotry and intolerance, cant and superstition and to cultivate real universal love extending even to the dumb brute"
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v7/y1886_008.htm


All this Chrisitanizing af various groups have been witnessed during the middleages and before. Take the Freemasons, the Gnostics, and now in the later decades the original theosophical programe. And at other places they seek to turn it into a Bakthi doctrine in opposition to the Atma-Vidya teachings of all ages.
Blavatsky already talked about these problems in the Secret Doctrine, you know.

One thing are the different views on doctrines expressed within a theosophical group, another is who are allowed to become members, and who not - when we are in need to secure the first object of the original TS Programe? ( Such members aught to pass a certain examin before being allowed inside, just like the Buddhists at Nava Vihara Monastery at Balkh in the old days. Or similar.)

These are my views and questions as far as I am concerned.



M. Sufilight


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Frank Reitemeyer 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 12:36 PM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World Adyar School of Wisdom - 2010/11


    
  Morten,

  I am sorry for my bad English.

  I want to say that the Adyar TS (and all others, too) has no right to ask the rest of the world for transformation, when they themselves make no transformation, at least it is not visible as the Judge case proofs.

  You speak about the original program. Good. But who has knowledge about it, as esoteric matters are never printed?

  There is also the claim that no original TS and no original headquarters at present exists, as was lengthly discussed in the early years of theos-talk.

  Most theosophists have not even an idea what a living teacher is and what their trained chelas are and who and where such higher persons worked within the Theosophical Movement.

  Each lineage claims to be the original one, while research shows that no lineage has 100 percent of HPB, but only a portion, the one more, the other less.

  So there is really no reason to ban universal brotherhood among all lineages as all made mistakes and all altered the original teachings, the one more, the other less.

  And there is no reason to prevent comparing the various theosophical lineages, both historically and from content of the teachings.

  Even you were not ready to accept an examination of HPB's student Henry T. Edge about false teachings of Rudolf Steiner.

  You were saying that you cannot accept Steiner as a true teacher and rejected the examination of Edge, even in a case, were Steiner was critizied. Your police was to silence examination.

  This comes from the common theosophical mindset of praying instead of teaching and learning, although Domodar in his circulars declared that in theosophical lodges scientific study has to be done.

  Instead of it they make a human made religion out of theosophy and that is contrary to HPB, who even gave her foes a voice.

  But you add an important point about the mass hypnosis which is coming from England and USA since over 100 years. HPB, Judge, Tingley and de Purucker said much of it.

  The darks side uses the same terms, the same slogans as the white side, so discrimination power is important.

  It is harder for Amercians to understand that, because there was as yet not so much mental, ideological, social and psychic shakings as in Central Europe, which makes comparison and alternative thinking easier.

  The young generation, raised under the dark clouds of the dark side and their cant newspeak, cannot compared with old generation and their culture, altruism, love for truth and high mindness of the first decades of last century.

  But is one to blame, who lives in another world, on another continent, as has no idea of all thi? No.

  But who has ears to hear?

  Frank

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: M. Sufilight 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 10:09 AM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World Adyar School of Wisdom - 2010/11

  Dear friends

  My views are:

  Thanks Frank.
  I think you have a point there in your words, if I understand them properly.

  I am in the following just presenting some views, which the serious theosophists might find useful.

  I would like to question whether the following "psychological key" so to speak should not be promoted much more in the theosophical circles. After all such teachings must - somehow - be in accordance with the original aim of the TS as it was given by HPB and the Masters from Himalaya.

  Since 1875 when TS began and until now we have litterally witnessed an explosion of new sects, cults, and what not around the globe. They most often go under different names like the Church Universal and Triumphant, Esoteric Clairvoyance courses, Lightserver Schools, Institutes of the most important Rays, (or "buy my books so I can be rich-organisations" and "pay for my courses - all 7 levels - organisations and groups", "this is the new times and the New Age group") etc. etc... And great many of them have their roots in the - original - theosophical teachings as they were given in 1875-1891 or rather most often in distorted versions thereof.

  What I find to be of importance is that some of these offshoots or distortions and even non-distortions can for good reasons not be digested by newcomers in a manner which will make them choose the genuine ones and discard the bad ones (the ones based on money, and narrowminded focus.)
  If the newcomers to the visdom teachings should be given a fair chance when facing the TS teachings today, they aught to be given a "psychological key".

  One of the I find to be, giving the newcomers a possibility to distinguish between a sect or a cult versus a non-secterian and genuine theospophical group.

  This can happen in a variety of ways. One method which I find myself offering is that the seekers make themselves familiar with the science of psychology, and especially the mechanism which governs a sect or a cult, which uses Mind Control methods on various levels versus the mechanisms which govern genuine TS teachings and the original TS structure.

  I can only offer the following books as well as other unnamed ones.
  William Sargant and his book "Battle for the Mind", 1957. One of the early pioneers in the area of mind Control, brainwashing and indoctrination within sects, cults, political systems and other groups of society. William Sargant was there when the Tavistock Clinic (1920, a secret MI-6 group during 2. WorldWar), later Tavistock Institute(1947) was formed. This group has in the latest decades been one of the most influential groups upon leading politicians, multi-national CEO's, scientists etc. - and - their later decision-making in great many western countries. William Sargant exchanged letters with the notorious Donald Ewen Cameron (1901-1967), who was one of the leading figures in the ugly MKULTRA programs, now recognized as a failure commited by the US on its citizens. William Sargant never really liked his methods. There are others like --- Robert Jay Lifton's "Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism"; 1961. More recently we have: Exit counselor Steven Hassan, a former Moonie and who after being "deprogrammed" chose to educated himself and help others. Try his bestsellers: "Combatting Cult Mind Control", 1988, and "Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves", 2000 (Some lectures can be found on Youtube. One is " Releasing the Bonds1"). And later we have Kathleen Taylor and her book "Brainwashing: The Science of Thought Control", 2004.

  When the new theosophical seekers have read these books - and digested them (perhaps together with the Key to Theosophy, regretably a much neclegted book today), they will much easier understand why the theosophical teachings and the TS as it was given in 1875-1891 has more to offer than many of the later distorted versions and New Age groups of various kinds has today.
  At least this is a fair assumption to make.

  I also find it important because the All About Cults accuses the TS and Blavatsky for pormoting Mind Control:
  Theosophical Society (TS)
  http://www.allaboutcults.org/theosophical-society.htm

  - - -

  Try to watch Cult Tactics & Mind Control - B.I.T.E. , based on Steve Hassan's books.
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3FO0pAj528

  Wikipedia on Mind Control 
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_control

  It is interesting, that the journalists use the words Mind Control, Brainswashing, Spin and indoctrination in a different manner than most scientist. And it is interestimg, that science is not telling people about this. Most scientists avoid using the term cults, brainwashing, indoctrination etc. about most new-religious movements, simply because it is unethical to do so instead of seeling to make them live together among each other in peace, and perhaps because the major religion Christianity is exactly a cult, which uses indoctrination of not brainwashing techniques - with belief as the basis of their behaviour -manipulations.
  The journalists, like money, so they never call the major religion in their country a cult or a sect etc., but only refer to the new-reliious groups - most often in general - as being cults and sects, brainwashers etc.
  The Christians are often agreeing with that, not seeing the selfcontradiction. And Politicians?...well let us not mention them here.

  Interestingly most people say, that they have never been indoctrinated, even when it is a fact that they have and continously are. Indoctrination are so very subtle, and most people are vulnerable, and more than they like to know. - People tend to fell secure and more wuise than others. Yet there is no end to us finding well-educated persons, who are dabbling with New Age actitivies and who are members of one or more New Age religious groups these days. And they are a great number of them not aware of that they are being deceived by people who only want to make money on selling books and various 7 or 8 level courses to a price, which will make your wallet scream if it could. I hold it to be a fact that all the Messiah's we see to day in the New Age market, are NOT genuine. Some of them are clearly false. The question is can you as a theosolhical seeker spot the fake ones, and have yuu learned how to do it? - What if it only required learning a bit about pocket-psychology?

  HPB talked about the fake Esotericist in Boston, with its Hiram E. Butler and Ohmart. And HPB also mentioned, that many Freemasons were humbugs. Are we now saying that most of New Age is not humbug, just because it has distorted the theosophical teachings - and operate like cults and sects, and AVOIDS telling others about the difference between cults and sects - and the non-secterin TS? - And aught these HUMBUGS not to be shown to the public for what they are - namely dangeorus or even destructive, espeically when they are run using black magic or run by an unethical hypnotist?

  Now are you saying that the above issues should be down-watered within the theosophical groups?
  Is this part of the "psychological key" mentioned by HPB?

  - - -
  This is a serious e-mail.
  And these are serious questions which you can ask your bright spiritual heads about.

  M. Sufilight

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Frank Reitemeyer 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 3:04 AM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World Adyar School of Wisdom - 2010/11

  mkr, transformation is urgent? Good thing.

  The others should be transformated?

  Why not go ahead as a good example and the Adyar TS begins with the urgent 
  transformation on themselves? (and all other lineages, too)

  Why not follow the good example of the SPR, who after over 100 years 
  defamation of HPB excused in 1986, and excuse on the unjust Judge case?

  It would show that no human interpretation of theosophy is higher than 
  truth.

  And it would open a manasic path away from a merely praying and lamenting 
  mindset to teach people.

  The Adyar TS needs an urgent a transformation.

  When, if not now?

  Obviously the occult machines do not stop and wait for lazy passengers. Time 
  is running out.

  Frank

  --- On Sun, 6/20/10, MKR <mkr777@gmail.com> wrote:

  From: MKR <mkr777@gmail.com>
  Subject: Theos-World Adyar School of Wisdom - 2010/11
  To: "theos-talk" <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
  Date: Sunday, June 20, 2010, 6:10 AM

  The upcoming sessions of Adyar School of Wisdom has a line up of Scholars
  such as Swami Chidananda, P Krishna, R C Tampi and Ravi Ravindra.

  Here are the details: (go online to ts-adyar.org for registration details)

  Theme: The Urgency of Transformation

  1 to 12 November 2010

  Transformation: Vedanta Perspectives
  Director: Swami Chidananda

  The statement âThat Thou Artâ, from the Chandogya Upanishad, points to a
  dimension of our existence that is free from all limitations and negative
  energy. The Vedanta tradition offers insights into inner change that are
  comparable to waking up from a long dream. The non-dual teachings of this
  system give us a vision of oneness of the universe which can eliminate
  unrest and insecurity and promote love and compassion. This session will
  explore important passages of the Mundaka Upanishad and also of selected
  observations by Sankaracharya, the well-known commentator on the Upanishads,
  which contain substantial food for thought, if not the ending of thought.

  Swami Chidananda is the Director of the Rajghat Education Centre,
  Krishnamurti Foundation India, Varanasi. He studied Vedanta under Swami
  Chinmayananda and has lectured on that subject both in India and overseas.
  He is the author of a number of books, including Flame of Who Am I?

  15 to 26 November 2010

  The Urgency of Transformation
  Director: Prof. P. Krishna

  The state of our society is a projection of the state of human
  consciousness. It cannot change in any fundamental way unless we bring about
  a change in our consciousness. Our consciousness does not change through
  intellectual understanding or the changing of opinions and views. Knowledge
  and experience do not alter consciousness. Therefore time does not help to
  bring about the transformation of consciousness. How can the human
  consciousness come upon wisdom? In this session we shall explore these
  questions in depth and attempt to discover the truth for ourselves.

  Prof. P. Krishna is in charge of the Krishnamurti Study Centre, KFI,
  Varanasi. He was the Rector of the Centre and Principal of the Rajghat
  Besant School from 1986 to 2002. He has lectured widely on Education,
  Science and Society and is also a Fellow of the Indian National Science
  Academy.

  29 November to 10 December 2010

  Transformation in the Teachings of N. Sri Ram
  Director: Prof. R. C. Tampi

  N. Sri Ram compared humanity to âan ancient plant that has seen many
  seasons. It is preparing for a new flowering, which will not be a
  reproduction of the old, but the flowering of a new species evolved from the
  old.â This course aims at a serious study of selections from Sri Ramâs
  writings on the nature and scope of human transformation.

  The following books by N. Sri Ram are recommended reading:

  An Approach to Reality
  Seeking Wisdom
  The Nature of Our Seeking
  Consciousness: Its Nature and Action
  Thoughts for Aspirants, Series I & II

  N. Sri Ram: A Life of Beneficence and Wisdom (a biographical study)

  Prof. R. C. Tampi, a long-standing member of the Theosophical Society, is
  the Director of the School of the Wisdom at Adyar and Retired Professor of
  English. He is also a National Lecturer for the Indian Section of the TS.

  5 January to 9 February 2011

  Theme: Inquiry into the Nature of the Self in the Upanishads
  Director: Dr Ravi Ravindra

  Many sages in India have stressed the importance of discernment between Self
  and non-Self, and they have said that the major characteristic of a basic
  human ignorance is the blurring of this distinction. What is the Self? How
  can we approach the understanding of the Self? How do we distinguish this
  from the usual many manifestations of self? The Upanishads regard the aim
  of human existence to be Self-realization and they present a model of a
  free, bold and non-sectarian inquiry into the nature of the Self. This
  course will draw upon the insights of the principal Upanishads in an
  exploration of the Self.

  Dr Ravi Ravindra is Professor Emeritus at Dalhousie University, Halifax,
  Nova Scotia in Canada, and the author of a number of books including Yoga
  and the Teaching of Krishna, The Yoga of the Christ and Whispers from the
  Other Shore. He has directed a number of sessions of the School of the
  Wisdom in the past.

  Recommended Texts:

  The Principal Upanishads, translated and edited by S. Radhakrishnan
  The Upanishads, translation and commentary by Sri Aurobindo
  Yoga and the Teaching of Krishna by Ravi Ravindra

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