Theos-Talk Archives (May 2010 Message tt00068)

Dear Frank and friends


My views are:

Thanks.
I liked that view.

I would say that Steiner, Bailey, Besant, Leadbeater, HPB, Judge, Tingley and Purucker all of them agreed on the following important aspect of the theosophical teachings.

a) There is something which can be called: The ABSOLUTE; the Parabrahm of the Vedantins or the one Reality, SAT, which is, as Hegel says, both Absolute Being and Non-Being. (SD. Vol. I, p. 16) Parabraham is not this or that, it is not even consciousness, as it cannot be related to matter or anything conditioned. It is not Ego nor is it Non-ego, not even Atma, but verily the one source of all manifestations and modes of existence. (SD. Vol. I, p. 130)
b) The Law of Karma are forwarded as a hypothesis by all of them. And a hypothesis said to be far better at explaining the universe and its Life and activity than any of the Dogmatic religions are able to do. 
c) There are human beings, which er more, in fact much more, intelligent and wise than other human beings. And history is a witness about the truth in this. People like Jesus (Joshua), Krishna, Buddha, Shankara, Manu, Enoch (Khidr), Tsong-Kha-Pa and many others are given as evidence on this.
d) It is possible for every human by his or hers own merits to become as intelligent and wise as those human beings.
None of them are promoting that this most likely will happen easily and within the next 100 years for a beginner Seeker, although it is not rejected as impossible either.
e) The Purpose of Life is known by the most wise in the Universe, and is hypothized to be answered beyond thought, time and space.
f) ESP (Extra Sensory Preception) - ie. clairvoyance, telepathy, telekinesis, materialization/dematerialization, and levitation are forwarded as hypothesises, which are researched in the light of scientific methods - ordinary as well as non-physical and esoterical ones.
g) The ues of ESP is viewed an activity, which like all other activity, happens in accordance with the Law of Karma, and where the motive when using them important within the range of the Law of Karma.
h) All of them promotes the hypothesis that there is a Law on Human Evolution related to the Law of Karma called Reincarnation, which claims that we humans live down here, and die, and after death we live in another non-physical world, and later we might be born again, most often as infants, in another body.

- - - - - - - -

M. Sufilight says:
Now this is good and well as far as it goes. Because in the below I will forward some of the deviations, which can be documented.

The authorship and acitivities performed by the persons in mention differ as I see it with regard to the following, when compared to HPB and the original Theosophical Society (1875-1891)...


WHERE Steiner, Bailey, Besant, Leadbeater, HPB, Judge, Tingley and Purucker DEVIATED FROM 
 The Original Theosophical Society 


a) The original Theosophical Society and comparative studying with empahsis on the Eastern Doctrines.
H. P. Blavatsky and the original Theosophical Society (1875-1891) promoted Comparative Studying as one of its aims. And with emphasis on the eastern Doctrines.

AAB groups have deleted this aim, and downwatered any official emphasis on it in their Statutes and Constitution.
Steiner groups has the same deviation as well. 


b) The original Theosophical Society as non-political
H. P. Blavatsky and the original Theosophical Society promoted a non-political involvement of the original Theosophical Society.
Annie Besant, C. W. Leadbeater, AAB, and perhaps also Steiner (?) involved themselves and also their own organisations in political activities.
(My own view: And this can be said to have damaged the original Theosophical Society and its aims.)

c) The doctrine on Atma-Vidya and self-reliance
H. P. Blavatsky and the original Theosophical Society promoted and EMPHASISED self-reliance and the hypothetisized Doctrine on the Divine within each Human. The Doctrine is also called Atma-Vidya. 

- Annie Besant, C. W. Leadbeater, AAB, and perhaps also Steiner (?)  downwatered this teaching.

d) The promotion of the future arrival of a World Teacher, Avatar or Messiah and the Masters in the phyaical.
H. P. Blavatsky and the original Theosophical Society never promoted and never EMPHASISED the doctrine on Invocations so to make a Messiah and World teacher to arrive, and even Masters arrive in the physical - at the cost of self-reliance and at the cost of the Atma-Vidya doctrine about the Divine within each human.

- AAB groups did and still do this.
- Steiner groups have or had a tendency to do the same.

e) The promotion of a World Teacher, Avatar or Messiah through the use of emotional devotion.
H. P. Blavatsky and the original Theosophical Society never promoted and never EMPHASISED the doctrine about promoting any World Teacher, Avatar or Messiah through the use of emotional devotion.

- Annie Besant and C. W. Leadbeater did.
- Some offshots among AAB groups also do this today.

f) Christian Churches and Spiritualism as contrasts to the original TS.
H. P. Blavatsky and the original Theosophical Society never promoted and never EMPHASISED that the Christian Churches and Spiritualism aught to be shown as contrast to Theosophical Society and the theosophical teachings.


- C. W. Leadbeater did a bad job on this. And Annie Besant also because of her relationship with the Liberal Catholic Church, which C. W. leadbeater promoted. And by promoting the Liberal Catholic Church to perform prayers and Christian rituals on the TS Adyar compound in its own church.

- AAB also failed to a certain extend with regard to this. 
- Steiner as well.


g) Modern Freemasonry.
H. P. Blavatsky and the original Theosophical Society never promoted and never EMPHASISED what was emphasised by the modern freemasonry organisation doctrines with regard to G.A.O.T.U. and their higher grades, and without emphasis on the eastern Doctrines, ie. Atma-Vidya etc. etc. This because it is clearly going against the first aim of the original Theosophical Society about seeking to create a Universal Brotherhood of Humanity.

- AAB groups, Annie Besant and C. W. Leadbeater failed with regard to this. Perhaps other groups as well.

h) Organisational work or not.
H. P. Blavatsky and the original Theosophical Society never promoted and never EMPHASISED the dissolution of the TS without the first aim of the Society necessitating it.

- J. Krishnamurti appearntly did. The TS fails today to recognize this fact as a problem and to address it as such.


And there are problably more, which aught to be mentioned, but this is enough for now.
Maybe others have some contributions with regard to the Judge, Tingly and Purucker camps.



- - - 

M. Sufilight says:
And because of some of the above deviations, I will claim that some of the later offshots of the original Theosophical Society never will be able to focus properly on the first AIM of the original Theosophical Society - namely to create a Universal Brotherhood of Humanity. (Yet some will perhaps say that the original Theosophical Society needed a number of steepingstones between itself and the opposition the Chrisitan Churches, especially the Vatican and its False Christians; Jesuits and others. Some of us however reject such a kind of "bridge-building" claming it to be compromising with the Truth and the original aim of the TS (1875-1891), and this we will not; at least not without further notice. And we encourge this who will defend such a "Steppingston"-view to tell us why it is defendable in the eyes of the Masters).

These are however my views.
Others will of course disagree.



M. Sufilight


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Frank Reitemeyer 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 3:33 PM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World International Theosophy Magazine


    
  Cass, yes, of course.
  Even today most theosophists do not understand the ABC of theosophy.
  The twisted teachings of Steiner, Bailey, Besant and Leadbeater are regarded as of the same worth as those of HPB, Judge, Tingley or Purucker.
  They call it tolerance or brotherhood or democracy or harmony.

  Regarding Jung I want the original sources checked.

  Frank

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Cass Silva 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 3:37 AM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World International Theosophy Magazine

  Although Frank, being angry over the theosophists may have more to do with those theosophists not truly understanding theosophy.

  Cass

  >
  >From: Frank Reitemeyer <ringding2010@t-online.de>
  >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
  >Sent: Sat, 22 May, 2010 5:47:18 AM
  >Subject: Re: Theos-World International Theosophy Magazine
  >
  > 
  >
  >As to the Jung quote on theosophy.
  >Years agao I was informed from older theosophists, that Jung has accepted the theosophical teachings and had nothing against them.
  >But for a time he had attended a theosophical lodge in the Netherlands and left angry about the theosophists.
  >
  >If he really made this distinction, he would be in good company, as already HPB made this distinction as well as other thinkers at Jung's time, like the rocket father Hermann Oberth or nuclear reseeacher and Plato student Prof. Ernst von Weizsacker.
  >
  >One needs to check the accuracy of this quote. Obviously it is a translation from the German.
  >
  >Frank
  >
  >----- Original Message ----- 
  >From: MKR 
  >To: theos-talk 
  >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 2:57 PM
  >Subject: Theos-World International Theosophy Magazine
  >
  >International Theosophy Magazine for May 2010 is online. Please check it
  >out. Links to the magazine are on the front page.
  >
  ><http://theosconf.org/>
  >
  >The magazine is multi-colored and very well done and the pdf version shows
  >what is feasible with current technology.
  >
  >A multi colored hard copy print edition would cost a fortune to produce and
  >distribute. Compared to drab mono-color magazines we are all used to, it is
  >a welcome addition to the theosophical universe.
  >
  >It shows Ancient Wisdom can be presented in a very attractive format.
  >
  >I hope other organizations would look at it and follow suit.
  >
  >MKR
  >
  >PS: A few days back, I called the editor of a free theosophical newsletter
  >to make it available as a pdf file. The editor, did not show much enthusiasm
  >for the idea and I do not think it is going to happen. It did not surprise
  >me because the editor is a typical very old theosophist in mid 80s. A friend
  >in another continent wanted to see it, I had to convert it to a pdf file and
  >email it.
  >
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  >
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  >
  >
  >

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