Theos-Talk Archives (February 2010 Message tt00204)

There are three topics that need to be clarified:

1. Election of International President:

This has always been by direct voted of members world-wide. Taking that
right away from members is viewed very seriously by those who live in
democracies. When the ultra secret attempt was made by a handful of GC
members to take that right away from every member world-wide also
considering the proponents involved and the timing thereof, members saw
through the motivation very easily and it did not take a genius to figure it
out.

2. Autonomy of the Sections:

It is upto the section concerned as to how their constitutional structure
is, so long it does not violate the International Constitution. In Brazil
case, it is up to the member in Brazil how they elect their leaders and
neither the General Council nor the International President or anyone else
has any right to interfere with it.

3. Sections where the leaders are elected democratically

The interplay of open proxy and the annual business meetings is an
interesting one. It appears that there may have been attempts by section
leaders to collect open proxies and use them such that the operation becomes
de-facto oligarchy and it is not good for the Section.


MKR



On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 3:52 AM, preethi muthiah
<seeker_preethi@yahoo.com>wrote:

>
>
> MKR,
>
> I have a problem with your statement given below about the ultra-secret
> attempt made by some Council members to veto the last Presidential election
> results. Your words: " Thus a handful of proxy-holders decide the questions,
> and an oligarchy rules instead of
>
>
> democracy. Many members feel that this open proxies are a fertile source of
>
> trouble for the TS and theosophical cause and this makes it easy for the
>
> current leaders have their way in almost everything. I suspect that this
>
> mindset is behind the daring ultra secret failed attempt by a handful of
>
> leaders to disenfranchise all of us and de-facto take over of the
>
> International Presidency. The proponents seems to have thought that they
>
> have an ace and no member would raise any concern."
>
> The reason I have a problem with understanding your take on this matter is
> because there is a contradiction in what you say here and what you said in
> your other message regarding the Brazilian Section showing the TS the way
> into the future. The contradiction arises solely because -- perhaps you are
> not aware of this so do read carefully -- the Brazilian Section of the TS DO
> NOT have direct voting in their election of a National President/General
> Secretary. The members of the Brazilian Section, TS, never get to vote in
> their GS. Nor for that matter do we have one in the Indian Section. So both
> of these Sections, which are the largest Sections of the TS, have the
> indirect voting system where members are not involved in voting in their
> National President or General Secretary, respectively. It is solely because
> of this that in the Brazilian Section the Ulisses Reidel and his friends and
> family have ruled roost for several decades now. To my knowledge,
> Ulisses was NP of the Brazilian Section for three terms, followed by
> Ricardo Lindemann -- a close friend of the Reidels and currently also on the
> board of the PU (Planetary Union) -- and currently the National President is
> Marcos de Resende, son of Ulisses. They do surely follow in the steps of the
> Indians and specifically Mrs Radha Burnier by ensuring that family members
> and friends are well-looked after in the TS, and hold positions of power and
> authority.
>
> I do hope you see your contradiction here. On the one hand, you keep
> talking about the ultra secret attempt to disenfranchise members of the TS
> from voting in a President and, on the other hand, you advocate the
> Brazilian Section as the leader in TS's future.
>
> How contradictory is that, MKR!!!!
>
> Fraternally
> Preethi
> --- On Sun, 14/2/10, Drpsionic@aol.com <Drpsionic%40aol.com> <
> Drpsionic@aol.com <Drpsionic%40aol.com>> wrote:
>
> From: Drpsionic@aol.com <Drpsionic%40aol.com> <Drpsionic@aol.com<Drpsionic%40aol.com>
> >
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Membership and Transparency Issues in American
> Section
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Sunday, 14 February, 2010, 10:13 PM
>
>
>
>
> I would think that the reason the bulk of the members of TS don't care
>
> about organizational transparancy is very simple. They just do not care.
>
> They are doing what interests them and the internal politics of the
>
> TS is a side show.
>
> Chuck the Heretic
>
> www.charlescosimano .com
>
> In a message dated 2/14/2010 8:59:58 A.M. Central Standard Time,
>
> mkr777@gmail. com writes:
>
> World-wide, lack of transparency seems to be a pervasive issue among all
>
> the
>
> Sections. This seems to have developed after Annie Besant became the
>
> President. It appears that taking a cue from her, Sections found it
>
> convenient to follow less and less of transparency and keep the members
>
> informed of unimportant crumbs of key policy information and decisions.
>
> Members did not seem to care for transparency when the leaders, due to
>
> their
>
> past actions and commitment commanded unquestionable trust of their
>
> members. When in the minds of members, the trust level comes down due to
>
> actions and activities of leaders, as in recent days, the only safeguard to
>
> protect the interests of TS and theosophy is for members to demand
>
> transparency.
>
> It appears that there is also an assumption by the leaders that they know
>
> it
>
> all and there is no need to fully keep members informed because in the past
>
> most showed no interest in the policy decisions taken behind the closed
>
> doors and crumbs being disclosed to members.
>
> From time to time, some members have also heard how prior to national
>
> business meetings, the leaders and their underlings collect large number of
>
> open proxies - giving the holder a free hand to vote as he pleases on any
>
> question that arises in the business meeting. Thus a handful of
>
> proxy-holders decide the questions, and an oligarchy rules instead of
>
> democracy. Many members feel that this open proxies are a fertile source of
>
> trouble for the TS and theosophical cause and this makes it easy for the
>
> current leaders have their way in almost everything. I suspect that this
>
> mindset is behind the daring ultra secret failed attempt by a handful of
>
> leaders to disenfranchise all of us and de-facto take over of the
>
> International Presidency. The proponents seems to have thought that they
>
> have an ace and no member would raise any concern.
>
> Considering the current shape of things_ in Sections outside India,
>
> continued
>
> lack of transparency in Sections is going to make any meaningful revival of
>
> the fortunes of TS and the Cause a very difficult upward climb. [Internet
>
> has been throwing a lot of light on the matters relating to the TS and
>
> thus
>
> keeping current members and prospects fully informed.] Current leaders seem
>
> to be oblivious to this stark fact while they seem to be more concerned
>
> with
>
> who is âmowing the lawn in Adyarâ as a member succinctly stated.
>
> MKR
>
> There is no religion higher than Truth.
>
> On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 1:23 AM, preethi muthiah
>
> <
>
> _ (http://www.charlesc osimano.com/) _seeker_preethi@ seeker_pr_
>
> (mailto:seeker_preethi@ yahoo.com) _>wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > MKR,
>
> >
>
> > You keep pointing out to the issue of a lack of transparency in the TS.
>
> > Well, I do hope the President and her aides at Adyar especially are
>
> > listening to you. They do lack transparency, but then how can you expect
>
> > them to stand in the Light of Truth when they have not been able to do
>
> that
>
> > with themselves in the first place?
>
> >
>
> > Fraternally
>
> > Preethi
>
> >
>
> > --- On Sat, 13/2/10, MKR <_ (http://www.charlesc osimano.com/)
>
> _mkr777@gmail. mkr_ (mailto:mkr777@gmail. com) _ <mkr777%40gmail. mkr>>
> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > From: MKR <_ (http://www.charlesc osimano.com/) _mkr777@gmail. mkr_
>
> (mailto:mkr777@gmail. com) _ <mkr777%40gmail. mkr>>
>
> > Subject: Theos-World Membership and Transparency Issues in American
>
> Section
>
> > To: "theos-talk" <_ (http://www.charlesc osimano.com/)
>
> _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com)
> <theos-talk% theos-talk% <WBthe>
>
>
> > >
>
> > Date: Saturday, 13 February, 2010, 2:18 AM
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Recently, there was a cryptic comment that the leaders from outside India
>
> >
>
> > seem to be more interested in knowing who is mowing the lawn in Adyar.
>
> This
>
> >
>
> > points to misplaced priority of the leaders whose job primary job is to
>
> > make
>
> >
>
> > sure theosophy flourishes in their Sections. The sections are given full
>
> >
>
> > autonomy and also the National Secretaries are given total immunity in
>
> that
>
> >
>
> > they cannot be removed from the General Council for any reason. Diverting
>
> >
>
> > the attention of the members to Adyar issues while the membership
>
> situation
>
> >
>
> > in most countries is either frozen or on the decline â hopefully we will
>
> > not
>
> >
>
> > end with sometimes quoted number of three theosophists. This diverting
>
> the
>
> >
>
> > attention of the members is seen by many as self-serving and not unlike
>
> how
>
> >
>
> > politicians divert attention of their constituents to unimportant issues
>
> >
>
> > while fire is raging on critical issues_.
>
> >
>
> > Two key issues at Section level are the sad situation regarding
>
> membership
>
> >
>
> > and the ultra secrecy with which Section matters are handled, namely lack
>
> > of
>
> >
>
> > real transparency.
>
> >
>
> > While reviewing the maillist archives, I ran into three messages touching
>
> > on
>
> >
>
> > the membership and secrecy issue in the American Section. I am sure you
>
> > will
>
> >
>
> > find them interesting to read. Here are the links.
>
> >
>
> > <_ (http://www.charlesc osimano.com/) _http://groups. _ (http://groups./) _
>
> yahoo.com/ group/theos- talk/message/ 22096>
>
> >
>
> > <_ (http://www.charlesc osimano.com/) _http://groups. _ (http://groups./) _
>
> yahoo.com/ group/theos- talk/message/ 22079>
>
> >
>
> > <_ (http://www.charlesc osimano.com/) _http://groups. _ (http://groups./) _
>
> yahoo.com/ group/theos- talk/message/ 52720>
>
> >
>
> > MKR
>
> >
>
> > .
>
> >
>
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> >
>
> > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.
>
> > _ (http://www.charlesc osimano.com/) _http://in.yahoo. http_
>
> (http://in.yahoo. com/) _
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> _ (http://www.charlesc osimano.com/)
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.
> http://in.yahoo.com/
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]