Re: Theos-World Bring the Theosophical Society back to its original lines!
Feb 14, 2010 11:36 AM
by Augoeides-222
Hey Boss,
Do you want us to build the stake and wood pile in the front yard again so we can burn that dirty heretic?
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk>
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 8:55:19 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: Theos-World Bring the Theosophical Society back to its original lines!
No.
There was never any excommunications in the TS in the period 1875-1891.
People were expelled out of compassion. This is the truth.
If we continue like you seem to want it, we will create people who never will stop continue to commit heretical acts.
:-)
----- Original Message -----
From: Drpsionic@aol.com
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Bring the Theosophical Society back to its original lines!
Because excommunication does not work. It merely creates martyrs on one
hand and rivals on the other.
Chuck the Heretic
_www.charlescosimano.com
In a message dated 2/13/2010 10:58:21 A.M. Central Standard Time,
global-theosophy@stofanet.dk writes:
Now, some of us willI wonder why it was silly?
----- Original Message -----
From:
_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _Drpsionic@aol.Drp _
(mailto: Drpsionic@aol.com ) _
To: _ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_
(mailto: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) _
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Bring the Theosophical Society back to its
original lines!
Yes, it was silly for her to do that.
Chuck the Heretic
www.charlescosimanowww.c
In a message dated 2/12/2010 10:59:41 A.M. Central Standard Time,
_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _global-theosophy@global-thgl_
(mailto: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk ) writes:
Dear Cass and friends
I hold your view to be against the esoterical theosophical teachings - and
so does H. P. Blavatsky in her Esoteric papers as far as I can tell.
The Masters have had groups for many years where they only allow certain
members to participate.
Various Chelas have also had groups where only certain members are allowed.
Are you saying that H. P. Blavatsky was wrong when she and the others
kicked Charles Sotheran out of the Theosophical Society?
Are you also saying that H. P. Blavatsky was wrong when she kicked Mabel
Collins out of her Esoteric Section and refused to accept everyone in her
Esoteric Section?
Let me seek to explain why...
1.
H. P. Blavatsky said in her Esoteric Section papers:
"Having omitted, however, the usual precautions of the probationary
period, I have but myself to thank; and therefore, it is but just that I
should
also be myself the first to suffer for it at the hands of the inexorable
Karmic law. For this, ironclad as I have been made by daily and almost
hourly
unjust attacks, I would have cared but very little; but that which I
deplore the mostââwith a bitterness few of you will ever realizeââis the
fact
that such a number of thoroughly earnest, good, and sincere men and women
should be made to suffer for the guilt of the few. For, though but a fault
of
omission on my part, still that guilt, as I feel, is due to my neglect.
Behold! my Karma appeared as a warning almost from the beginning of the
E.S."
...
"I had started well. Several of those whom I knew to be entirely unfitted
to take the pledge have been refused from the first; but I proved unable
to
withstand their prayers when certain of them declared to me that it was
their âlast chance in life.â The âpledge feverâ made short work of their
promises. One broke her vows only four days after signing her pledge,
becoming guilty of the blackest treachery and disloyalty to her HIGHER
SELF. And
when I could no longer keep in the E.S. either herself or her friend, the
two convulsed the whole Society with their calumnies and falsehoods. Then
it
was that the old wondering query, âHow is it that âpoor H.P.B.,â
notwithstanding the Masters at her back, and her own insight, is so
evidently unable
to know her friends from her foes?â ran once more the round of
theosophical circles, both here and in America.
Brothers, if you will judge from appearances, and from the worldly
standpoint, you are right; but if you take the trouble of looking into the
inner
causes producing outward results, you will find that you are decidedly in
the wrong. That you should no longer do me injustice, let me explain what
I
mean."
.......
"[And now I sincerely hope that you willââsome of you, at leastââlearn a
lesson from my weakness, and show your appreciation of this by not judging
me too unkindly if I now change somewhat my policy. For I have to either
do so, or to drop the Esoteric teachings altogether, for those at any
rate,
who will disagree with this arrangement. To avoid repeating the mistake,
this is what I propose doing. Each Paper will be sent as it was hitherto,
only it will appear as a Supplement to the Ethics and teachings which will
impart the rules of Discipline and the laws of Discipleship, as in the
case of
all Probationers.all Probationers.<WBR>"[And now I sincerely hope that you
w
at leastââlearn a lesson from my weakness, and show your appreciation of
this by not judging me too unkindly if I n
âSpeak not the mysteries to the common vulgar, nor to the casual friend,
or new disciple. With prudent eye to the possible consequences, keep
locked
within your breast the teachings received, until you find a listener who
will understand your words and sympathize with your aspirations.â
This does not mean that you are at liberty to repeat what you have learned
to anyone whom you believe to answer that descriptio_n, but that you can
exchange views with your co-disciples who are pledged as you are
yours_elf."
_ (_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _ http://www.charleschttp://www.c_
( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _)
__ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
_ http://www.katinkahhttp://www.kathttp://www.kathttp://wwhttp://wwwhtt_
( http://www.katinkahhttp//wwhttp://www.kathttp://wwhttp://wwwhttp://_ ) _
(_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
_ http://www.katinkahhttp://wwhttp://www.kathttp://wwhttp://wwwhttp://_
( http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v12/y1890_055.htm ) )
2.
H. P. Blavatsky said in her Esoteric Section papers:
"The Masters can give but little assistance to a Body not thoroughly
united in purpose and feeling, and which breaks its first fundamental rule
ââ
universal brotherly love, without distinction of race, creed or colour;
nor to
a Society, many members of which pass their lives in judging, condemning,
and often reviling other members in a most untheosophical, not to say
disgraceful, manner.
For this reason it is now contemplated to gather the âelectâ of the T.S.
and to call them to action. It is only by a select group of brave souls, a
handful of determined men and women hungry for genuine spiritual
development and the acquirement of soul-wisdom, that the Theosophical
Society at
large can be brought back to its original lines. It is through an Esoteric
Section aloneââi.e., a group in which all the members, even if
unacquainted
with one another, work for each other, and by working for all work for
themselvesââthat the great Exoteric Society may be redeemed and made to
realize
that in union and harmony alone lie its strength and power. The object of
this Section, then, is to help the future growth of the Theosophical
Society
as a whole in the true direction, by promoting brotherly union at least
among the few."
.......
"As to the relations of the Masters to this Section, it may be further
said, paradoxically, that with Them everything is possible and everything
impossible. They may or may not communicate personally on the outer plane
with
a member, and those who are continually wishing to receive âordersâ or
communications directly from Them on this plane, either phenomenally or
otherwise, will in all probability be disappointed. The Masters have no
desire
to prove Their power or give âtestsâ to anyone whatever. And the fact
that a
member has concluded that a crisis of some kind or other is at hand, when,
according to his wise opinion, the Master or Masters ought to speak and
interfe_re personally, is no sound r_eason for such an outward
interference.i
_ (_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _ http://www.charleschttp://www.c_
( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _)
__ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _ http://www.katinkahhttp://ww_
( http://www.katinkahhttp//ww ) _<WBR>net/blava<<WB>net/<<WB>net/b<<WB>ne_
(_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
_ http://www.katinkahhttp://wwhttp://www.kathttp://wwhttp://wwwhttp://_
( http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v12/y1890_052.htm ) _) _
3.
H. P. Blavatsky said in her Esoteric Section papers:
"NOTICE
Members of the E.S.T. receiving this Instruction will understand from its
receipt that they have passed out of the First Probationary Degree of the
E. S. T. into the Second Probationary Degree. The students in the Second
Degree must not discuss this Instruction with anyone still in the First
Degree; they must remain absolutely silent upon it, except to such persons
as may
be notified to them as belonging to the Second or Third Degrees by Annie
Besant or William Q. Judge. Any breach of this rule of silence will be an
absolute bar to receiving any further Instructions.a
_ (_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _ http://www.charleschttp://www.c_
( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _)
__ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
_ http://www.katinkahhttp://www.kathttp://www.kathttp://wwhttp://wwwhtt_
( http://www.katinkahhttp//wwhttp://www.kathttp://wwhttp://wwwhttp://_ ) _
(_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
_ http://www.katinkahhttp://wwhttp://www.kathttp://wwhttp://wwwhttp://_
( http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v12/y1890_057.htm ) _) _
Do you think that the Masters would reveal all their teachings to the
vulgar when in a group among the chelas?
M. Sufilight
----- Original Message -----
From: Cass Silva
To: _ (_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
_ http://www.charleschttp://www.c_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _) _theos-talk@) _theos-t)
(mailto:_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_
(mailto: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) _) _
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 1:13 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Bring the Theosophical Society back to its
original lines!
No, on the contrary Morten, I don't believe in any elite group being set
up within an organization as this promotes division of its members into
the
'blessed' and the 'unclean'. I have no problem with study groups formed
around esoteric ideas but these should be open to all.
Cass
>
>From: Morten Nymann Olesen <_ (_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
_ http://www.charleschttp://www.c_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _)
_global-theosophy@_global-theosophy@<WB_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
_global-theosophy@global-thgl_ (mailto: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk ) _) _>
>To: _ (_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
_ http://www.charleschttp://www.c_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _) _theos-talk@) _theos-t)
(mailto:_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_
(mailto: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ) )
>Sent: Fri, 12 February, 2010 3:02:36 AM
>Subject: Re: Theos-World Bring the Theosophical Society back to its
original lines!
>
>
>Dear Cass
>
>My views are:
>
>So you agree with me, that a secretive Esoteric Group, which requires
approval before membership or opportunity to be taught is achived, might
be a
helpful idea?
>
>Some might consider the Secret Dcotrine to be a Bible. I would however
say, that it is quite false to compare them to have anything in common
since
the Bible is turned into something infallible, whereas the Secret Doctrine
never have claimed to be infallible or to be a Bible of any dead-letter or
narrowminded dogmatic and fanatical interpretation.
>
>As I see it, we also have to keep the following in mind...
>
>The compassionate theosophist and the Sufi operates through the use of
DESIGNs and MEASURINGs. Each teaching, book, lecture, e-mail etc. etc. is
a
DESIGN. After such a DESIGN has been presented, to the receiver(s) of it,
the message, reacts on the individual in various ways. Depending on the
reaction and the impact the message has or have - the Initiate or
Initiates
MEASURES the receiver(s). After a while a new DESIGN will be presented,
maybe
by another person or by other means. This teaching about DESIGN and
MEASURING is ages old. HPB talked a bit about it. The Sufis are called the
Designers, and sometimes also masons, i.e. the Eastern compassionate
masons.
>
>Taken from A CURRICULUM OF A SCHOOL
>"Man has few alternatives in his search for truth. He may rely upon his
>unaided intellect, and gamble that he is capable of perceiving truth or
even
>the way to truth. This is a poor, but an attractive, gamble. Or he can
>gamble upon the claims of an individual or institution which claims to
have
>such a way. This gamble, too, is a poor one. Aside from a very few, wo/men
>in general lack a sufficiently developed perception to tell them:"
>
>1. Not to trust their own unaided mentation;
>
>2. Who or what to trust.
>
>"There are, in consequence, two main schools of thought in this matter.
Some
>say 'Follow your own promptings'; the other says: 'Trust this or that
>intuition'. Each is really useless to the ordinary wo/man. Each will help
>him use up his time."
>
>"The bitter truth is that before man can know his own inadequacy, or the
>competence of another man or institution, he must first learn something
>which will enable him to perceive both. Note well that his perception
itself
>is a product of right study; not of instinct or emotional attraction to
the
>individual, nor yet of desiring to 'go it alone'. This is 'Learning How
To
>Learn."
>
>"All this means, of course, that we are postulating here the need for
>preparatory study before school work takes place. We deny that a man can
>study and properly benefit from school work until he is equipped for it:
any
>more than a person can study space-navigation unless he has a grasp of
>mathematics. "
>
>"This is not to say that a man (or a woman) cannot have a sensation of
>truth. But the unorganized and fragmented mind which is most people's
>heritage tends to distort the quality and quantity of this sensation,
>leading to almost completely false conclusions about what can or should be
>done."
>
>"This is not to say, either, that man cannot take part in studies and
>activities which impinge upon that portion of him which is connected with
a
>higher life and cognition. But the mere application of special techniques
>[often to everyone, regardless of their current state and requirements]
will
>not transform that man's consciousness. It will only feed into, and
>disturb, more or less permanently, centers of thought and feeling where it
>does not belong. Thus it is that something which should be a blessing
>becomes a curse. Sugar, shall we say, for a normal person is nutritionally
>useful. To a diabetic, it can be poison."
>
>"Therefore, before the techniques of study and development are made
>available to the student, he must be enabled to profit by them in the
>direction in which they are supposed to lead, not in short-term
indulgence."
>
>"Thus our curriculum takes two parts: the first is in the providing of
>materials of a preparatory nature, in order to equip the individual to
>become a student. The second is the development itself."
>
>"If we, or anybody else, supply such study or preparatory material
>prematurely, it will only operate on a lower level than it could. The
result
>will be harmless at best. At worst, it will condition, train, the mind of
>the individual to think and behave in patterns which are nothing less than
>automatic. In this latter way one can make what seem to be converts,
>unwittingly play upon emotions, on lesser desires and the conditioning
>propensity; train people to loyalty to individuals, found and maintain
>institutions which seem more or less serious or constructive. But no real
>progress towards knowledge of the human being and the other dimension in
>which he partly lives will in fact be made... ... ...."
>
>Taken partly from: "Learning How to Learn" by the Afghan sufi-author
Idries
>Shah
>
>M. Sufilight
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Cass Silva
>To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 2:00 AM
>Subject: Re: Theos-World Bring the Theosophical Society back to its
original lines!
>
>>From what HPB said, we are given only what we can absorb and assimilate.
No point in giving us esoteric knowledge that we are not ready for. The
Secret Doctrine is not unlike the Bible in that it was written for both
exoteric and esoteric students, so whatever level the reader is at, it
provides
guidance.
>
>Cass
>
>Cass
>
>>
>>From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
>>To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>>Sent: Thu, 11 February, 2010 2:58:47 AM
>>Subject: Re: Theos-World Bring the Theosophical Society back to its
original lines!
>>
>>
>>Dear Cass and friends
>>
>>My views are:
>>
>>A new Esoterical School might be necessary or a good and compassionate.
Remember that we emply agents in various groups and organisations. But I
find, that another Theosophical Society following the original lines would
be
a much better idea, - well provided that the present Theosophical Society
is not able to show us that they still follow the original lines given by
the Masters, and why their lines or program are better than the original
one.
>>
>>Such a Knowledge is esoterical knowledge. And that kind of Knowledge is
not, (so I have been told here at Theos-talk), officially claimed by the
leaders Theosophical Society today. An example: Try to ask the Master
whether
they consider their Himalayan group to be an elite group. Do you think
that the Masters Himalayan group will reveal all and everything esoterical
to
everyone?
>>
>>M. Sufilight
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: Cass Silva
>>To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>>Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 11:54 PM
>>Subject: Re: Theos-World Bring the Theosophical Society back to its
original lines!
>>
>>I hope you are not suggesting that new esoteric schools be formed? What
knowledge is so esoteric that it can now only be shared by an elite group?
>>
>>Cass
>>
>>>
>>>From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>>>Sent: Wed, 10 February, 2010 6:18:19 AM
>>>Subject: Theos-World Bring the Theosophical Society back to its
original lines!
>>>
>>>
>>>Dear friends
>>>
>>>My views are:
>>>
>>>Sometimes one would do well in reading the words given by H. P.
Blavatsky
>>>about the reason for the formation of the Esoteric Section...
>>>
>>>H. P. Blavatsky said to the members of the Esoteric Section:
>>>"This degree of the Esoteric Section is probationary, and its general
purpose is to prepare and fit the student for the study of practical
occultism or Raj yoga. Therefore, in this degree, the student--save in
exceptional
cases--will not be taught how to produce physical phenomena, nor will any
magical powers be allowed to develop in him; nor, if possessing such
powers
naturally, will he be permitted to exercise them before he has thoroughly
mastered the knowledge of SELF, of the psycho-physiologica l processes
(taking place on the occult plane) in the human body generally, and until
he
has in abeyance all his lower passions and his PERSONAL SELF.
>>>The real Head of the Esoteric Section is a Master, of whom H. P.
Blavatsky is the mouthpiece for this Section. He is one of those Adepts
referred
to in theosophical literature, and concerned in the formation of the The
osophical Society. "
>>>. . . . . . .
>>>"The Theosophical Society has just entered upon the fourteenth year of
its existence; and if it has accomplished great, one may almost say
stupendous, results on the exoteric and utilitarian plane, it has proved a
dead
failure on all those points which rank foremost among the objects of its
original establishment. Thus, as a "Universal Brotherhood, " or even as a
fraternity, one among many, it has descended to the level of all those
Societies
whose pretensions are great, but whose names are simply masks,--nay, even
SHAMS. Nor can the excuse be pleaded that it was led into such an
undignified course owing to its having been
>>>impeded in its natural development, and almost extinguished, by reason
of the conspiracies of its enemies openly begun in 1884. Because even
before that date there never was that solidarity in the ranks of our
Society
which would not only enable it to resist all external attacks, but also
make
it possible for greater, wider, and more tangible help to be given to all
its members by those who are always ready to give help when we are fit to
receive it. When trouble arose, too many were quick to doubt and despair,
and
few indeed were they who had worked for the Cause and not for themselves.
The attacks of the enemy have given the Society some discretion in the
conduct of its external progress, but its real internal condition has not
improved, and the members, in their efforts towards spiritual culture,
still
require that help which solidarity in the ranks can alone give them the
right
to ask. The Masters can give but little assistance to a Body not
>>thoroughly united in purpose and feeling, and which breaks its first
fundamental rule--universal brotherly love, without distinction of race,
creed
or colour; nor to a Society, many members of which pass their lives in
judging, condemning, and often reviling other members in a most
untheosophical, not to say disgraceful, manner."
>>>. . . . . . .
>>>"For this reason it is now contemplated to gather the "elect" of the
T.S. and to call them to action. It is only by a select group of brave
souls,
a handful of determined men and women hungry for genuine spiritual
development and the acquirement of soul-wisdom, that the Theosophical
Society at
large can be brought back to its original lines. It is through an Esoteric
Section alone--i.e., a group in which all the members, even if
unacquainted
with one another, work for each other, and by working for all work for
themselves-- that the great Exoteric Society may be redeemed and made to
realize that in union and harmony alone lie its strength and power. The
object of
this Section, then, is to help the future growth of the Theosophical
Society as a whole in the true direction, by promoting brotherly union at
least
among the few.
>>>All know that this end was in view when the Society was established,
and even in its mere unpledged ranks there was a possibility for
development
and knowledge, until it began to show want of real union; and now it must
be saved from future dangers by the united aim, brotherly feeling, and
constant exertions of the members of this Esoteric Section. Therefore,
anyone
who has signed the pledge without realizing this is earnestly recommended
to
reconsider his position, and to withdraw unless he is prepared to devote
himself to the carrying out of this purpose. Once offered the grand
example
of practical altruism, of the noble_ lives of those who learn to master
the
great knowledge but to help others, and who strive to acquire power_s but
to
place them at the service of their fellow-men, the whole theosophical
community may yet be steered into action, and led to follow the example
set
before them.
>>>The Esoteric Section is thus "set apart" for the salvation of the whole
Society, and its course from its first steps will be an arduous and uphill
work for its members, though a great reward lies behind the many obstacles
once they are overcome.
>>>_ (_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _ http://www.charleschttp://www.c_
( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _) __ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ )
_ http://www.katinkahh_ ( http://www.katinkah_/ ) _
(_ ( http://www.charlescosimano.com/ ) _ http://www.katinkahh_ (ht
tp://www.katinkah/ ) ) esselink. net/blavatsky/ articles/ v7/yxxxx_ 019.htm
>>>
>>>M. Sufilight asks and comments:
>>>I ask your compassionate hearts as honest Seekers after Truth :
>>>
>>>Do you my dear readers understand that, the Esoteric Section was
according to H. P. Blavatsky created in 1888 so that "the Theosophical
Society at
large can be brought back to its original lines"; the lines openly
deviated from in 1884?
>>>
>>>Did this imply turning it towards a more or less blurred or openly
declared political involvement à la A. O. Hume - National Congress of
India? I
would clearly say no, and no a thousand times!
>>>
>>>Did this imply asserting a Messiah in the flesh as the World Teacher of
the Age (The Maitreya) as a dogma or propagandized doctrine to follow? I
would clearly say no, and no a thousand times!
>>>
>>>Did this imply rejecting the view that "No Theosophist should be silent
when he hears evil reports or slanders spread about the Society, or
innocent persons, whether they be his colleagu_es or outs_iders. " (The
Key to the
Theosophist, 2ed., 1890, p. 250)? I would clearly say no, and no a
thousand times!
>>>
>>>Did it only imply this with reagard to physically present humans or did
it also imply it with regard deceased ones? I would clearly say both
issues count, because people not living in the physical are present in our
universe!
>>>
>>>M. Sufilight
>>>
>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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>>
>>
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Theosophy World:
Dedicated to the Theosophical Philosophy and its Practical Application
