Theos-Talk Archives (November 2009 Message tt00173)

Dear friends

My views are:

A bit lenghty e-mail.
But here are some words to consider.
I Wrote the e-mail so that the Seekers might be helped.


1.
Maybe we aught to add a few words the following link in Wikipedia?

Book of Dzyan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Dzyan

Would it not we a good idea to add this quote in the below about the Dzyan Stanzas?

H. P. Blavatsky said in The Theosophist -  Vol. IV, No. 9, June, 1883, p. 224-226:
"Of course, as found out by the Orientalists, the word âZendâ does not apply to any language, whether dead or living, and never belonged to any of the languages or dialects of ancient Persia (See Farhang-i-JahÃngÃrà the Persian dictionary.) It means, as in one sense correctly stated, âa commentary or explanation,â but it also means that which the Orientalists do not seem to have any idea about, viz., the ârendering of the esoteric into exoteric sentences,â the veil used to conceal the correct meaning of the Zen-(d)-zar texts, the sacerdotal language in use among the initiates of archiac India. Found now in several undecipherable inscriptions, it is still used and studied unto this day in the secret communities of the Eastern adepts, and called by themâaccording to the localityâZend-zar and Brahma or Dew-Bhashya."
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v4/y1883_075.htm


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2.
Let me add som more thought-provoking info:

The following links and their content might be of value to have in mind
when seeking out the origins of Dzyan Stanzas and Senzar or Zend-sar.
Some of the links are written by Scholars. So the Seeker will have to consider, that the words might deviate from H. P. Blavatsky's and also from the Aksha readings and teachings.

History of writing - Proto-writing
"The history of human communication dates back to the earliest era of humanity. Symbols were developed about 30,000 years ago, and writing about 7,000. The early writing systems of the late 4th millennium BC are not considered a sudden invention. Rather, they were based on ancient traditions of symbol systems that cannot be classified as writing proper, but have many characteristics strikingly reminiscent of writing. These systems may be described as proto-writing. They used ideographic and/or early mnemonic symbols to convey information yet were probably devoid of direct linguistic content. These systems emerged in the early Neolithic period, as early as the 7th millennium BC."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-writing

Cuneiform script - (On ancient Cylinders)
"Cuneiform script"... "is the earliest known writing system in the world.[1] Cuneiform writing emerged in the Sumerian civilization of southern Iraq around the 34th century BC[2] during the middle Uruk period, beginning as a pictographic system of writing. Cuneiform was the most widespread and historically significant writing system in the Ancient Near East.[3]

The development of cuneiform writing was an evolution of an earlier Mesopotamian accounting system that had been used for five thousand years before.[citation needed] Clay tokens had been used for some form of record-keeping in Mesopotamia since as early as 8,000 BC."
...
"Most later adaptations of Sumerian cuneiform preserved at least some aspects of the Sumerian script. Written Akkadian included phonetic symbols from the Sumerian syllabary, together with logograms that were read as whole words. Many signs in the script were polyvalent, having both a syllabic and logographic meaning. The complexity of the system bears a resemblance to old Japanese, written in a Chinese-derived script, where some of these Sinograms were used as logograms, and others as phonetic characters."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-writing 

(Cylinder Seals dated 6000 BC. has been discovered by Scholars.)


 Gatha (A Â"Language" with maby interpretations.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatha

Pali - Theravad Buddhism writing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C4%81li

Magadhi Prakrit
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magadhi_Prakrit

Prakrit 
"But there are scholars who believe that Prakrit is older than Sanskrit, and it is on the base of Prakrit (original) that the Sanskrit (refined) language was made. This also is in tune with the Jain religion, where the first Tirthankar is Adinath himself.[2][3] The Prakrits became literary languages, generally patronized by kings identified with the Kshatriya caste, but were regarded as illegitimate by the Brahmin orthodoxy."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prakrit 
(Known by scholars to be Prominent in Punjab just south of Kashmir and Jammu).

Jain Prakrit
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jain_Prakrit

H. P. Blavatsky on the Jain Cross:
(SD by Blavatsky, vol. 2, p. 98-99)
http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/SDVolume2.htm

The Bodhi-tree (At Bihar)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bihar_%28India%29

Damaidi (Early writings in China?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damaidi

 H. P. Blavatsky said: ZOROASTRIANISM IN THE LIGHT OF OCCULT PHILOSOPHY
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v4/y1883_075.htm

Sumer
"Sumer is called the "Land of the Lords of Brightness" ".......
But it is a bit hasty to call it the: "Cradle of Civilization." 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumer


- - -

"THE SECRET BOOKS OF âLAM-RIMâ AND DZYAN
The Book of Dzyanâfrom the Sanskrit word âDhyÃnaâ (mystic meditation)âis the first volume of the Commentaries upon the seven secret folios of Kiu-te, and a Glossary of the public works of the same name. Thirty-five volumes of Kiu-te for exoteric purposes and the use of the laymen may be found in the possession of the Tibetan Gelugpa Lamas, in the library of any monastery; and also fourteen books of Commentaries and Annotations on the same by the initiated Teachers.
Strictly speaking, those thirty-five books ought to be termed âThe Popularised Versionâ of the Secret Doctrine, full of myths, blinds, and errors; the fourteen volumes of Commentaries, on the other handâwith their translations, annotations, and an ample glossary of Occult terms, worked out from one small archaic folio, the Book of the Secret Wisdom of the World*âcontain a digest of all the Occult Sciences. These, it appears, are kept secret and apart, in the charge of the Teshu-Lama of Shigatse. The Books of Kiu-te are comparatively modern, having been edited within the last millennium, whereas, the earliest volumes of the Commentaries are of untold antiquity, some fragments of the original cylinders having been preserved. With the exception that they explain and correct some of the too fabulous, and to every appearance, grossly-exaggerated accounts in the Books of Kiu-teâ âproperly so calledâthe Commentaries have little to do with these. They stand in relation to them as the Chaldaeo-Jewish Kabalah stands to the Mosaic Books."
......
"âWho is in possession of the true knowledge?â is asked. âThe great Teachers of the Snowy Mountain,â is the response. 
These âgreat Teachersâ have been known to live in the âSnowy Rangeâ of the HimÃlayas for countless ages. "
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v14/mb_007.htm



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3.
M. Sufilight comments on the above:

Provided that Blavatsky was telling the truth I will say:
The above links creates a connection between the Sanskrit, the Zend commentaries, Senzar, Kalachakra, Cyllinders and Prakrit, Symbol languages and Pichtographical Cuneiform.

>From this I will somewhat safely conclude, that this is why the origin of the Esoteric Buddhism - is from the ancient Dzyan Stanzas - written in  a version of the pictographical "language" and similar using an ancient version of Prakrit or ancient Gatha and Cuneiform - That is why the - official - Zend Commentary in Zend-Avesta (which version known to scholars in our present time are of a somewhat later date) is a later version of the Dzyan Stanzas , - with its many ways of interpretations included - especially due to its symbolical language, which make it much more esoterical than the written words in (f.i.) the English vocabulary at present will be able to convey. - This language is also of a 3-dimensional kind, and even of a higher level than that.

Although I am not quite certain I will say:
The officially known versions of Kalachakra can nearly all of them be said to interpretations of (parts of)Dzyan Stanzas and even later revised interpretations - and not the all of them of a level of interpretation, which is esoterical in nature or of a comparatively high level.


And Dzyan Stanzas aught (form a certain angle) to be sought as originating from that region we know as Balkh, Bactria, Manasarovar Lake, Shi-Gatze, Bihar and Kashmir  as well as areas north of these places. Also named Hindoo Kush by some persons.

Let me be a bit more open:
My own inner experiences where I was shown the very special and beautiful First tablet (Dzyan Stanzas) told me that they previously had been (if they not are there even today) somewhere north-west of the Siachen Glachier in a very special hidden cave.  It was in or at least near the squared area Balkh - Kabul - Srinagar - Manasarovar Lake. Maybe north of it. (Yet such experiences might be false - unless one, actually knows. So because of that I am hesitating a bit.)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0e/Kashmir_map.jpg

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Anyone with additional views?


M. Sufilight

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