Re: Theos-World The Abiding Threat: The Ongoing Validity of the Angleton-Golytsin Thesis
Nov 19, 2009 09:09 AM
by Morten Nymann Olesen
Dear Do Thi Thuan
My views are:
Do Thi Thuan wrote:
"In truth, Judges and Policemen help to realize the Law of Karma on criminals: They say: "you have to answer for your bad deeds, you rob and you get caught and put into prison, thou shall reap what thou sow". "
M. Sufilight says:
I disagree, and say not they do not.
And what kind of theosophical teaching are you basing such a view on?
Theosophy is altruism at is core. How can a sentence of 5 year imprisonment or more be in accordance with the law of karma if the convicted did not commit the crime he or she was convicted for? The Law of Karma never fails. Judges and policemen fail, and very often if I may say so.
If a man or woman steal your clothes or your car, should he or she then be convicted and sentences to x number of years of imprisonment? Is that the core of your teaching to show compassion by performing and supporting such activities?
That was why H. P. Blavatsky was against the idea of political disputes. Whereas religious debates are completely different issue.
That was why the "CONSTITUTION AND RULES OF THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY" - as given in The Theosophist - January 1891 said:
"ARTICLE XIII
Offences
1. Any Fellow who shall in any way attempt to involve the Society In political disputes shall be immediately expelled."
- - -
Do Thi Thuan wrote:
Those people help the Law to be applied on earth quickly and aleviate the burden of our Karma Guardians (?).
M. Sufilight says:
The Law of Karma never fails. Judges and policemen fail, and very often if I may say so.
- - -
Do Thi Thuan wrote:
Otherwise, our Karma Guardians (?) have to make complicated calculations to redraw our destinies, like the navigator has to "recalculate the road" every time we make a wrong move for our car.
M. Sufilight says:
So you think idiots should be helped to keep everything going with an eye for "business as ususal" instead of being spought guided towards the path of altruism on this planet?
Maybe another member or two of this forum, who knows about prisons and how they operate would comment on the above and this exchange on the value or non-value of democracy and political involvement with the theosophical groups, or the claimed theosophical groups?
- - -
By saying the above I am not thereby saying that evil regimes are better en peaceful democracies.
And I am not saying that humanitarian efforts should be dropped. Quite on the contrary, provided that they benefit the society as a whole.
Good intentions are always welcomed. Bad intentions are not. Ignorant wellmeant but non-compassionate intentions, which are without the altruistic seal will never succed within the Law of Karma.
People will of course disagee with me, because they either find the Law of Karma to just to be followed. Or they find that greed is better than compassion. Or other reasons which are going against the Law of Karma - and the doctrine on uselfishness and compassion.
But these are just my views. Each human are free to choose their own doctrines. Why they do not seek the real theosophical ones, we can only question them about.
M. Sufilight
----- Original Message -----
From: Thuan Do
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 1:35 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World The Abiding Threat: The Ongoing Validity of the Angleton-Golytsin Thesis
In truth, Judges and Policemen help to realize the Law of Karma on criminals: They say: "you have to answer for your bad deeds, you rob and you get caught and put into prison, thou shall reap what thou sow". Those people help the Law to be applied on earth quickly and aleviate the burden of our Karma Guardians (?). Otherwise, our Karma Guardians (?) have to make complicated calculations to redraw our destinies, like the navigator has to "recalculate the road" every time we make a wrong move for our car.
If suddenly we lose all the red/green lights at crossroads, we will be in big trouble! Same thing happens when we don't have any police or judge anymore.
Do Thi Thuan
http://anhduong.net
http://hoangvan.net
______________________________________Tieng Vo Thinh (58-100)
Tieng Vo Thinh(157-195) Co 3 chan ly:
1. Linh hon con nguoi von bat tu va tuong lai cua no phat trien huy hoang khong bien gioi.
2. Nguyen ly sinh ra su song o noi chung ta va o ngoai chung ta, nguyen ly do khong khi nao chet, doi doi ban phuoc; no khong sao thay duoc, nghe duoc, cam giac duoc, nhung ke nao muon nhan thuc no se nhan thuc duoc.
3. Moi nguoi deu la nguoi lap luat le cho chinh minh mot cach tuyet doi, vua la nguoi ban phat su vinh quang hay su toi tam cho minh, vua la nguoi cam van mang minh, thuong, phat minh.
--- On Wed, 11/18/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk> wrote:
From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk>
Subject: Re: Theos-World The Abiding Threat: The Ongoing Validity of the Angleton-Golytsin Thesis
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2009, 2:06 PM
Dear Do Thi Thuan
My views are:
I find your views not to be quite correct. The Law of Karma has to be taken into account.
To promote what you perceive to be "laws and order" goes against the fundamental doctrine named The Law of Karma - and altruism.
This was what H. P. Blavatsky was referring to in the quote I mentioned from The Key to Theosophy, 2nd ed. 1890, p. 54-55.
- - - Do you understand me this far?
So-called physical human "laws and order" written on paper will not work, because they are build on ignorance and not on the Laws which governs our universe. The Law of Karma being the main moral law of the universe - and that law is not a human law written on a piece of paper - And not a law so to be enforced when the militants or their influentials (by power, fear, greed, etc.) deem it important or not important to uphold.
Okay?
Some additional views:
First, we cannot conclude that all judges and police will be the first to realise such a view as H. P. Blavatsky was forwarding. Maybe we aught to look somewhere else. Maybe another groups will be the first or a mixed one. - And H. P. Blavatsky was not referring to a forced solution to the problem, without any use of compassion.
Secondly - When a person realise the importance of the view, the ordinary society will be more or less impacted by the individuals change of heart.
Third, such a change cannot really happen suddenly, because it will not really be in accordance with the Law of Karma.
And if it happens suddenly, the Law of Karma might even prevent the criminals performing their ugly deeds on this planet - and perhaps they will have to go elsewhere. The Law of Karma operates in mysterous manners, not understood by humans in general.
Fourth, if the change happens gradually, we cannot really just like that predict whether the criminals will not be effected by it or not during time.
Fifth, if the change happens gradually, we do not rule out that theosophical teachings will play a more important role on the ordinary society's teaching and education system, and how parents race their children etc. etc. This might have as a result, that less criminals will be raced and active on the planet.
- - -
There are the individuals karmic needs and spiritual needs - and then there are what the individual perceives to his or her needs. The latter are not necessarily the same as the former. And that is important to understand and know about.
What are your views about this?
M. Sufilight
----- Original Message -----
From: Thuan Do
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World The Abiding Threat: The Ongoing Validity of the Angleton-Golytsin Thesis
human society:
criminals will rob and kill without the police to stop them and the judges to put them into prison for us to live peacefully . We cannot negate this physical world to reach for higher level for everybody ! we still need "laws and order" in order to live and get experiences.
Do Thi Thuan
http://anhduong. net
http://hoangvan. net
____________ _________ _________ ________Tieng Vo Thinh (58-100)
Tieng Vo Thinh(157-195) Co 3 chan ly:
1. Linh hon con nguoi von bat tu va tuong lai cua no phat trien huy hoang khong bien gioi.
2. Nguyen ly sinh ra su song o noi chung ta va o ngoai chung ta, nguyen ly do khong khi nao chet, doi doi ban phuoc; no khong sao thay duoc, nghe duoc, cam giac duoc, nhung ke nao muon nhan thuc no se nhan thuc duoc.
3. Moi nguoi deu la nguoi lap luat le cho chinh minh mot cach tuyet doi, vua la nguoi ban phat su vinh quang hay su toi tam cho minh, vua la nguoi cam van mang minh, thuong, phat minh.
--- On Wed, 11/18/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk> wrote:
From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
Subject: Re: Theos-World The Abiding Threat: The Ongoing Validity of the Angleton-Golytsin Thesis
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2009, 10:58 AM
What society, and Why not?
----- Original Message -----
From: Thuan Do
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World The Abiding Threat: The Ongoing Validity of the Angleton-Golytsin Thesis
Hey, if all the policemen and the judges follow exactly the Sermons on the Mount, then nobody could live in this society anymore!
Do Thi Thuan
http://anhduong. net
http://hoangvan. net
____________ _________ _________ ________Tieng Vo Thinh (58-100)
Tieng Vo Thinh(157-195) Co 3 chan ly:
1. Linh hon con nguoi von bat tu va tuong lai cua no phat trien huy hoang khong bien gioi.
2. Nguyen ly sinh ra su song o noi chung ta va o ngoai chung ta, nguyen ly do khong khi nao chet, doi doi ban phuoc; no khong sao thay duoc, nghe duoc, cam giac duoc, nhung ke nao muon nhan thuc no se nhan thuc duoc.
3. Moi nguoi deu la nguoi lap luat le cho chinh minh mot cach tuyet doi, vua la nguoi ban phat su vinh quang hay su toi tam cho minh, vua la nguoi cam van mang minh, thuong, phat minh.
--- On Wed, 11/18/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk> wrote:
From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
Subject: Re: Theos-World The Abiding Threat: The Ongoing Validity of the Angleton-Golytsin Thesis
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2009, 9:22 AM
Dear Govert
My views are:
Govert wrote:
"insane dreams of Socialism and of Communism."
M. Sufilight says:
I would perhaps have been much better to quote the whole sentence or passage from the above by Blavatsky:
1.
"It is in this spirit that the Society has been established upon the footing of a Universal Brotherhood.
Unconcerned about politics; hostile to the insane dreams of Socialism and of Communism, which it abhors-as both are but disguised conspiracies of brutal force and sluggishness against honest labour; the Society cares but little about the outward human management of the material world. The whole of its aspirations are directed toward the occult truths of the visible and invisible worlds. Whether the physical man be under the rule of an empire or a republic, concerns only the man of matter. His body may be enslaved; as to his Soul, he has the right to give to his rulers the proud answer of Socrates to his Judges. They have no sway over the inner man.
Such is, then, the Theosophical Society, and such its principles, its multifarious aims, and its objects. "
So do not think for one moment that H. P. Blavatsky was a capitalist either, because she was most certainly not.
2.
Try also The Key to Theosophy, 2ed. 1890, p. 54-55:
"Justice, like charity, ought to begin at home. Will you revile and scoff at the "Sermon on the Mount" because your social, political and even religious laws have, so far, not only failed to carry out its precepts in their spirit, but even in their dead letter? Abolish the oath in Courts, Parliament, Army and everywhere, and do as the Quakers do, if you will call yourselves Christians. Abolish the Courts themselves, for if you would follow the Commandments of Christ, you have to give away your coat to him who deprives you of your cloak, and turn your left cheek to the bully who smites you on the right. "Resist not evil, love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you," for "whosoever shall break one of the least of these Commandments and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven," and "whosoever shall say 'Thou fool' shall be in danger of hell fire." And why should you judge, if you would not
be judged in your turn? Insist that between Theosophy and the Theosophical Society there is no difference, and forthwith you lay the system of Christianity and its very essence open to the same charges, only in a more serious form. "
M. Sufilight
----- Original Message -----
From: Govert Schuller
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 10:58 PM
Subject: Theos-World The Abiding Threat: The Ongoing Validity of the Angleton-Golytsin Thesis
The Abiding Threat: The Ongoing Validity of the Angleton-Golytsin Thesis
". the American decent into Marxism is happening with breath taking speed ."
Pravda, April 27, 2009
With the recent celebrations of the fall of the Berlin Wall 20 years ago and US President Obama visiting the US's main creditor China it might be good to revisit the old Angleton-Golytsin thesis regarding the false liberalization in Russia and the hidden, long-term Russia-China alliance. Five years ago I wrote about it and researchers still find confirmation upon confirmation for the thesis. Find below some of their analyses.
Don't expect this administration, with its many Marxist sympathizers and its leader a tool of fifth column New World Order organizations to incorporate this into its geopolitical perceptions and strategy. Instead, US domestic and foreign policy is and has been driven by a quite large set of incorrect assumptions shared by both parties, the most important and dangerous among which are: Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda are responsible for 9/11, even while it was an inside job; Russia and China can be played out against each other and contained, even while they are in secret alliance and are quite powerful; record-setting government deficits and low interest rates will save the US and world economy, even while setting the conditions for the next and bigger economic crisis. These together with a plethora of other faulty perceptions are responsible for the increasing possibility of the demise of the American Republic in the near future and its subsequent
absorption into a New World Order through either military conquest, convergence through legislation or an internal coup/revolution.
Probably, and hopefully, only the emergence of a robust constitutionalist anti-Marxist third party might save the day. I like to remind my friends in the Theosophical, Krishnamurti and Ascended Master movements that they could, and maybe should, agree on supporting such a third party effort as key persons in all three movements have come out strongly in opposition to all Marxist and derivative policies. HPB declared her hostility to the "insane dreams of Socialism and of Communism." Krishnamurti would in no way submit himself to any coercive policies coming from any quarter however idealistic. And Elizabeth Clare Prophet, the HPB of the 20th century, provided arguably the most elaborate esoteric analysis of the Marxist agenda. (sources)
Govert Schuller
Wheaton
November 17, 2009
For the analyses proceed to:
http://www.alpheus. org/html/ articles/ parapolitics/ AbidingThreat200 9.htm
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