Theos-Talk Archives (October 2009 Message tt00153)

Dear Do Thi Thuan and friends

My views are:

I am resending this e-mail to Theos-talk because some e-mails appears to get stuck before they arrive at Theos-talk, while others do not.

And let me say, that the below e-mail is merely being sent because I find that the questions asked need to be clairified to the Seekers after truth as long as Annie Besant is being praised at TS Adyar as a great leader, as long as J. Krishnamurti is being forwarded as someone to - merely be believed - to be a World Teacher and a Messiah.


Here we go again:

So "Pathless" is not Pathless, but Path after all; and we are expected to find a clear spiritual logic in such a point of view?
And a Guru is just a crutch, which is a nuisance?
And comparative studying is unimportant; what is important is only to listen to J. Krishnamurti, who never praised any teaching but his own?
And a Messiah-craze is the best theoosphy can arrive at?

H. P. Blavatsky wrote:
"CHELAS AND LAY CHELAS"
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v4/y1883_095.htm

I somehow find it difficult to relate the above by H. P. Blavatsky with what J. Krishnamurti taught and was representing as a Messiah-craze with ribbons, badges, and J.K. insignia.


M. Sufilight


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Morten Nymann Olesen 
To: Thuan Do 
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 9:41 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Candles and the Sun


Dear Do Thi Thuan and friends

My views are:

Then I will have to ask:

So "Pathless" is not Pathless, but Path after all; and we are expected to find a clear spiritual logic in such a point of view?
And a Guru is just a crutch, which is a nuisance?
And comparative studying is unimportant; what is important is only to listen to J. Krishnamurti, who never praised any teaching but his own?
And a Messiah-craze is the best theoosphy can arrive at?

H. P. Blavatsky wrote:
"CHELAS AND LAY CHELAS"
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v4/y1883_095.htm

I somehow find it difficult to relate the above by H. P. Blavatsky with what J. Krishnamurti taught and was representing as a Messiah-craze with ribbons, badges, and J.K. insignia.


M. Sufilight

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Thuan Do 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com ; theos-talk-owner@yahoogroups.com 
  Cc: global-theosophy@stofanet.dk 
  Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 9:12 PM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World Candles and the Sun


        "Truth is a pathless land" means everybody cannot follow a unique and universal path to reach the truth, but each of us has to follow a unique path for each person. Krishnamurti liberated the mind of the people who think that people just need to follow him/a master to reach the truth, but each one has to find the truth/a path for her/himself.
        Theosophical society offers the hints / the crutchs for us to learn how to walk, but we have to discard the crutches some day in order to walk by ourself, We have to become the path to reach the truth (The Voice of Silence)
        Krishnamurty liberated the mind of people and set them free to seek for the truth. Of course, we can find in the TS whatever that fits our level at the moment. The crutches we get from the society have much value in my eyes.

        Do Thi Thuan

        http://anhduong.net
        http://hoangvan.net
        ______________________________________ 

        Moi quý vi nghe bài hát Duoi Chân Thày


        ______________________________________ 
        Toi la mot nguoi bo hanh phieu lang
        Duong tran gian xuoi nguoc de vui choi
        The Lu




        --- On Fri, 10/23/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk> wrote:


          From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk>
          Subject: Re: Theos-World Candles and the Sun
          To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Friday, October 23, 2009, 7:16 AM


            Dear MKR

          My views are:

          The following are just my views. I write them doing my best to follow the cause which was continued and begun by H. P. Blavatsky.

          I will have to say that your e-mails content looks more like a commercial for a fanatical belief in Krishnamurti and a Messiah-craze, than anything else. 

          MKR wrote:
          "From the moment Krishnaji started speaking, literally there was no
          competition from anyone from the theosophical society. This has continued to
          be so to this day."

          I will certainly say, that this depends on who you are talking about and how you define the term "the theosophical society".

          Can we not agree upon, that It is NOT a question about the number of listners, but instead important WHO participates, and when, and what quality the teaching delievered has? How can a Messiah-craze ever dispel fanatism?

          MKR wrote:
          "He came up with a very simple and direct
          statement - I maintain that Truth is a pathless land, and you cannot
          approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect."

          And we say: Rubbish and nonsense.
          All the wisdom teachings are aimed at transformation of the individual, and saying that such a transformation is non-existent is according to plain logic a clear lie. In fact such a statement has a clear tendency to distort the fact forwarded by H. P. blavatsky that theosophy IS religion and not A religion.

          So I find it fair to say that Krishnamurti denied the theosophical teachings, with its Chelaship teachings - unless he himself was the Master to be listened to. Neither Jesus, Krishna, Buddha etc. etc. followed such a doctrine.
          And you, MKR, seem also to deny the theosophical teachings true value, and seek to promote a Messiah-craze.

          I will have to reject such a mail as theosophical in nature.

          M. Sufilight

          ----- Original Message ----- 
          From: MKR 
          To: theos-talk 
          Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 4:02 AM
          Subject: Theos-World Candles and the Sun

          Candles and the Sun

          For some of us interested in the history of the theosophical society and
          some of the players, today offers some interesting and striking contrasts
          when you look at the past and present.

          Krishnaji

          From the moment Krishnaji started speaking, literally there was no
          competition from anyone from the theosophical society. This has continued to
          be so to this day. Even when he visited San Antonio years ago, 2,500 people
          showed up for his lecture and in the last 30 years I have never seen even
          1/10th show up for any theosophical leader, lecturer, scholar, elder,
          clairvoyant, etc. This fact cannot be ignored.

          Let us look at the situation when in 1929 he came up with his famous Truth
          is a Pathless Land statement. He came up with a very simple and direct
          statement - I maintain that Truth is a pathless land, and you cannot
          approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect.

          He personally delivered the statement to the audience. He did not issue a
          press release or use surrogates to put out the statement. He did not waver
          from it rest of his life. He was also subsequently filmed reading the
          statement in 1930 and can be seen on Youtube today.

          At the time he declared Truth is a Pathless Land statement, he was extremely
          popular within and outside theosophical society. If he had given any inkling
          of his desire to be President of TS, Annie Besant would have given up her
          position and he would have been elected unopposed. But, what did he do? He
          came up with his Truth is a Pathless Land statement and severed connection
          with any organization. Let us look at him at that time.

          He was a young man of 34 years of age. He had no formal education and did
          not even have high school diploma. If he started looking for job, it would
          have been very difficult without formal education or skills. For someone
          with that background to come up with Truth is a Pathless Land statement and
          cutting of any connection with any organization, with no marketable job
          skills, it would have looked very foolish and suicidal. Obviously, one
          person who did not think so was himself. Even Annie Besant was concerned
          about his future and asked some a few well-known members of TS to leave TS
          and take care of him.

          The above shows simple daring decision made by him with no concern about the
          security of the future. He did succeed and was talking about various topics
          till he died in 1986. Where ever he lectured, there was a strong turnout and
          even today, his books are popular world-wide. Foundations and Schools were
          established world-wide and are doing excellent work.

          CONTRASTING SITUATION NOW

          Looking at the election of the President of Theosophical Society last year
          is very interesting. The methodology and tactics used in trying to defeat
          the sitting President was very sad indeed; not to mention the backdoor
          attempt to seize the Presidency by secretly disenfranchising members
          world-wide. No one came up with a daring new radical philosophical or
          spiritual approach arresting the attention of theosophists; an approach
          which would have had a large following of theosophists without any concern
          about losing the money and property owned by the TS and International
          organizational platform of TS. Contrasting this with the decision taken by
          Krishnaji in 1929, everyone looks pitiful and the comparison of Candles and
          the Sun is quite appropriate. I wonder if any of the player ever thought
          about the comparison. If not, all those who meditate everyday for whatever
          purpose, may benefit by meditating on it.

          My 0.02.

          MKR

          There is no religion higher than truth

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