Theos-Talk Archives (October 2009 Message tt00122)

Thanks.

- - -
About J. Krishanmurti I will write in another ongoing thread.


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 12:01 AM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World Abhidharma the core of MahÃyÃna and HÃnayÃna?


    
  Morten 
  Well would you read all 120 volumes? There are probably translations of the 8000 line Sutra in Buddhist Library Online whichever divison or sect it may be. And there also are the larger versions. There are Digital Libraries of Buddhism Online. My experience is access to them has certain reservations to most of the ones I have seen, such as they can be accessed, but they are only in Tibetan, Sanscrit or Pali. For us meager iliterates who don't possess fluencey of those languages we are left in the gulch lol! 

  Tripitaka Master Hsuan Hua - Professor of the Tripitaka - Abbot of Gold Mountain Dhyana University, Talmage, California published "A General Explanation of the Vajra Prajna Paramita Sutra, 173 pages, in English, first printing 1974. Also there are many works published by others, but in any case no one publishes the "withheld" teachings of the Sutra in any of the versions. 

  excerpt page 27 "Subhuti's Request": 
  "--At that time the Elder Subhuti arose from his seat in the assembly, uncovered his right shoulder, placed his right knee on the ground, put his palms together with respect and said to the Buddha, 

  How rare, World Honored One, is the Tathagata who remembers and protects all Bodhisattvas and causes them to be well-endowed 

  World honored one if a good man, or a good woman, resolves his heart on the Anuttarasamyuksambodhi , how should he dwell, how shoulld he subdue his heart? 

  The Buddha said, Good indeed, good indeed Subhuti. It is as you say. The Tathagata remembers and protects all Bodhisattvas and causes them to be well-endowed. now listen intentively; I shall tell you, a good man, or a good woman, who resolves his heart on Anuttarasamyuksambodhi should thus dwell, should thus subdue his heart. 

  Yes, certainly, World Honored One, I want to hear, I am delighted to listen 

  The Buddha Told Subhuti , All Bodhisattvas, Mahasattvas , should thus serve their hearts with the vow, "I must cause all living beings---those born from eggs, born from wombs, born from moisture, born by transformation, those with form, those without form, those with thought, those without thought, those not totally without thought,--- to enter nirvana without residue and be taken across to extinction. Yet of the immeasurable, boundless numbers of living beings thus taken to extinction, there is actually no living beings taken across to extinction . And why? Subhuti, if a Bodhisattva has a mark of self, a mark of others, a mark of living beings, or a mark of life, he is not a Bodhisattva 

  Wonderful Conduct Without Dwelling p. 43 ------- 

  Moreover Subhuti, as to Dharmas, A Bodhisattvashould not dwell anywhere when he gives. He should not dwell in forms, when he gives, nor should he dwell in sounds, tastes, tangible objects, or Dharmas when he gives. Subhuti , a Bodhisattva should give thus: He should not dwell in marks. And why? If a Bodhisattva does not dwell in marks when he gives, his blessings and virtues are immeasurable. 

  Subhuti what do you think is space in the east measurable? 

  No, World Honored One. 

  Subhuti is space in the south, west, north, or in the intermediate directions, or above, or below, measurable? 

  No, World Honored One. 

  Subhuti, the blessings and vitrtue of a Bodhisattva who does not dwell in marks when he gives are just as immeasurable. Subhuti A Bodhisattva should only dwell in what is taught thus. 

  The "Thus" Principle of Genuine Seeing P. 46 

  Subhuti, what do you think, can the Tathagata be seen by his physical marks? 

  No, World Honored One, The Tathagata cannot be seen by his physical marks. And why? It is because the physical marks are spoken of by the Tathagata as no physical marks. 

  The Buddha said to Subhuti, All with marks is empty and false. If you can see all marks as no marks then you see the Tathagata. 

  End of excerpt (intercollated between all the above are the teaching commentray and expostition ocments of Tripitaka Master Hsuan Hua to his students ) 

  So this above is in reality Non-Dual teaching. For similar reason I also have said Krishna Murti did speak in a manner that was exposition on the non-dual also, as did Blavatsky.Tthe marks are not marks but only the requisite means to communicate the concepts. 

  Regards, 
  J ohn 

  If any persons cannot be receptive of the Non-dual it is futile expenditure of energy and time in any case. 

  Here is the Google Images Search result for "Buddhist Digital Libraries English" 

  >>>http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=Buddhist+Digital+Libraries+English&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2&aq=f&oq=&aqi=<<< 

  Regards, 
  John 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk> 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 8:01:19 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
  Subject: Re: Theos-World Abhidharma the core of MahÃyÃna and HÃnayÃna? 

  Yes. Lol. 

  Do you or anyone have a clue to these 120 volumes corroborated by Hiuen Tsang on the Heart Seal? 
  I find HPB's below words very important. These volumes must be available somewhere. But the Internet is dead silent on this. 
  Maybe our chinese members here at Theos-talk know about their where-abouts? 

  HPB said: 
  "The âHeart Doctrine,â or the âHeartâs Sealâ (the Sin Yin) is the only real one. This may be found corroborated by Hiuen Tsang. In his translation of MahÃ-PrajÃÃ-PÃramità (Ta-poh-je-King) , in one hundred and twenty volumes, it is stated that it was Buddhaâs âfavourite disciple Ananda,â who, after his great Master had gone into NirvÃna, was commissioned by KÃsyapa to promulgate âthe Eye of the Doctrine,â the âHeartâ of the Law having been left with the Arhats alone." 
  http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v14/mb_011.htm (Posthumously published) 

  M. Sufilight 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Cass Silva 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 2:50 AM 
  Subject: Re: Theos-World Abhidharma the core of MahÃyÃna and HÃnayÃna? 

  At the time of viewing the show I had little idea on theosophical connections - simply enjoyed it from a philosophical point of view, couched in humour around Monkey, Pigsy,Fish etc. Especially loved the way Monkey called up his cloud! 

  Cass 

  > 
  >From: Morten Nymann Olesen < global-theosophy@stofanet.dk > 
  >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  >Sent: Tue, 13 October, 2009 7:03:28 AM 
  >Subject: Re: Theos-World Abhidharma the core of MahÃyÃna and HÃnayÃna? 
  > 
  > 
  >Dear Cass and friends 
  > 
  >My views are: 
  > 
  >Thanks Cass! 
  >I like that story very much. And I will seek to tell you and the readers why. 
  > 
  >Oh yes. 
  >I have read that book and seen the movie as well. 
  >It has in fact been shown on TV here in Denmark. 
  > 
  >Wu Cheng'en (Sun Wukong - The Monkey King) 
  > http://www.china- on-site.com/ monkey.php (A sweet but minor Online version with pictures - 100 pages) 
  > http://www.chine- informations. com/fichiers/ jourwest. pdf (Full English vewrsion 1400 pages). 
  > 
  >Sun Wukong ("Sun" implies his origin as a monkey, and "Wukong" means aware of emptiness). 
  >I think, that The title of the story "Journey to the West" is not the best when we these days think about the countries West of Tibet. 
  > 
  >In fact this monkey in the story reminds me of me own little self . You see I was, sad to say it, very impatient when I was a child. And when was more young, I had also many times - over-eagerly - thought that running up on the Buddha mountain must be as easy as a piece of cake etc, etc. But the over-eagerly part has later changed into something else. Life is a removal of ignorance. 
  > 
  >Wu Cheng'en (The Monkey King) is a Great plot. 
  >Humility is an important key in the story. And we often witness, that this is a problem in western counteries. The westerner being too youthful in nature and too reckless, and simply way too eager to run up the (perceived) hills, just to fail and fall down the "Himalayan mountains" or rather the spiritual planes. And extremely Impatient creatures are these western ones as well. The Monkey Kings's fascination with silly ideas is telling. For instance his experience of standing on Buddha's palm. Writing on Buddhas fingers: "The Greatest Sage has been here". :-) 
  > 
  >In fact some of them - the Westerners or what we aught to call them - arrive at theosophical groups and forums. They expect enlightenment immediately or to learn to levitate or clairvoyance on a high level within a fews weeks - or experience miracles in a number similar to flowers falling like raindrops from the sky - and that even as part of a strange and silly entertainment idea of theirs. And when it does not happen due to Karma or compassion, they leave or begin some quite disturbing communications. They need something else first, and we can not give them want they crave and want. They need humility, or to be patient, or simply to learn to listen - and absorb the teachings offered. - Well, that is at least what I have learnt. - Well, in part I guess. - Well, come to think of it, I better say: I hope I have learned it. 
  >:-) 
  > 
  >- - - - - - - 
  >Now we know that Wikipedia is not always solid. But the following might be useful. 
  > 
  >Tripitaka 
  >"In the Tibetan tradition, on the other hand, when attempts are made to explain the application of the term Tripiáaka to the Kanjur, the Tibetan canon of scripture, the Abhidharma Piáaka is considered as consisting of the PrajÃÄpÄramitÄ." 
  > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Tripi%E1% B9%ADaka 
  > 
  >Prajnaparamita 
  >"The earliest sutra in this class is the AááasÄhasrikÄ PrajÃÄpÄramitÄ SÅtra or "Perfection of Wisdom in 8,000 Lines", which was probably put in writing about 100 BC and is one of the earliest Mahayana sutras. More material was gradually compiled over the next two centuries. As well as the sutra itself, there is a summary in verse, the Ratnaguáasaácaya GÄthÄ, which some believe to be slightly older because it is not written in standard literary Sanskrit." 
  > 
  >"Between the years 100 and 300, this text was expanded into large versions in 10,000, 18,000, 25,000 and 100,000 lines, collectively known as the "Large Perfection of Wisdom". These differ mainly in the extent to which the many lists are either abbreviated or written out in full; the rest of the text is mostly unchanged between the different versions. Since the large versions proved to be unwieldy, they were later summarized into shorter versions, produced between the years 300 and 500. The shorter versions include the Heart Sutra (PrajÃÄpÄramitÄ Hádaya) and the Diamond Sutra (PrajÃÄpÄramitÄ VajracchedikÄ SÅtra). These two are widely popular and have had a great influence on the development of Mahayana Buddhism. Tantric versions of the Prajnaparamita literature were produced from the year 500 on. The Prajnaparamita terma teachings are held to have been conferred upon Nagarjuna by Nagaraja, the King of the nagas, who had been guarding them at 
  the bottom of a lake." 
  > 
  >Chinese translation 
  > 
  >Xuanzang returned to China from India with three copies of the Mahaprajnaparamita Sutra which he had secured from his extensive travels.[1] Xuanzang, with a team of disciple translators, commenced translating the voluminous work in 660 using the three versions to ensure the integrity of the source documentation. [1] Xuanzang was being encouraged by a number of the disciple translators to render an abridged version. After a suite of dreams quickened his decision, Xuanzang determined to render an unabridged, complete volume, faithful to the original of 600 chapters." 
  > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Prajnaparamita 
  > 
  >And Xuanzang's life it is said "wrote" or inspired this "The Monkey King" story. 
  > 
  >Now translations and their content can always be discussed. And the story is said to contain several layers of knowledge. 
  >I bet Xuanzang was not the first one to travel from China to Tibet - i.e. Journeying West. In the western countries European and American countries story could fittingly be called "Journey to the East". 
  > 
  >In fact it is very telling how much and how many times the Himalaya's have outsmarted other cultures; and new fangled New Age teachers from the Western countries :-) 
  > 
  >- - - - - - - 
  > 
  >THE HEART's SEAL and Heartflow 
  > 
  >HPB said quite interestingly: 
  >"Among the commandments of Tsong-kha-pa there is one that enjoins the Rahats (Arhats) to make an attempt to enlighten the world, including the âwhite barbarians,â every century, at a certain specified period of the cycle. Up to the present day none of these attempts has been very successful. Failure has followed failure. Have we to explain the fact by the light of a certain prophecy? It is said that up to the time when Pan-chhen-rin- po-chhe (the Great Jewel of Wisdom)* condescends to be reborn in the land of the Pelings (Westerners) , and appearing as the Spiritual Conqueror (Chom-den-da) , destroys the errors and ignorance of the ages, it will be of little use to try to uproot the misconceptions of Peling-pa (Europe): her sons will listen to no one. Another prophecy declares that the Secret Doctrine shall remain in all its purity in Bod-yul (Tibet), only to the day that it is kept free from foreign invasion. The very visits of Western natives, 
  however friendly, would be baneful to the Tibetan populations. This is the true key to Tibetan exclusiveness.â 
  >âââââ 
  >* A title of the Tashi-lhunpo Lama. 
  >â [See Lucifer, Vol. XV, pp. 97-98 and B.C.W. Vol. VI, p. 105.] " 
  > http://www.katinkah esselink. net/blavatsky/ articles/ v14/mb_009. htm (though Posthumously Published) 
  > 
  >And it is quite mind-baffling to consider that HPB said....: 
  >"But it is only in the Trans-Himlayan fastnessesâloosely called Tibetâin the most inaccessible spots of desert and mountain, that the Esoteric âGood Lawââthe âHeartâs Sealââlives to the present day in all its pristine purity." 
  >... 
  >"The âHeart Doctrine,â or the âHeartâs Sealâ (the Sin Yin) is the only real one. This may be found corroborated by Hiuen Tsang. In his translation of MahÃ-PrajÃÃ-PÃramità (Ta-poh-je-King) , in one hundred and twenty volumes, it is stated that it was Buddhaâs âfavourite disciple Ananda,â who, after his great Master had gone into NirvÃna, was commissioned by KÃsyapa to promulgate âthe Eye of the Doctrine,â the âHeartâ of the Law having been left with the Arhats alone." 
  > 
  >A comment: 
  >And that it is well-known that this Seal is Buddha's Swastika, which in the olden days was placed as a symbol on the chest of the dead Arhat. - Now you tell me if these 120 volumes are available to westerners these days? 
  > 
  >M. Sufilight 
  > 
  >----- Original Message ----- 
  >From: Cass Silva 
  >To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
  >Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 1:32 AM 
  >Subject: Re: Theos-World Abhidharma the core of MahÃyÃna and HÃnayÃna? 
  > 
  >Monkeyis the dubbed English language version of the Japanese television seriesSaiyÅki (èéè?), based on the classic Chinese novelJourney to the West by Wu Cheng'en.[1] It was originally produced by Nippon Television(NTV) and International Television Films in association with NHK. 
  >The series ran for two seasons of 26 episodes each. The first season ran from October 1978 to April 1979. The second season ran from November 1979 to May 1980. Both seasons had footage shot on location in north-west China and Inner Mongolia. 
  >Plot summary 
  >Monkey, the title character, "born from an egg on a mountain top", was a brash king of a monkey tribe (indeed, the title song goes so far as to claim that he was the "funkiest monkey that ever popped"). He achieved a little "enlightenment" and proclaimed himself "Great Sage, Equal of Heaven". After demanding the "gift" of a magical stafffrom a powerful Dragon king, Monkey is approached by Heaven to join their host in the lowly position of "Keeper of the Peach Garden of Immortality" . Monkey eats them all, becomes immortal and runs amok. Having earned the ire of Heavenand being bested in a challenge by an omniscient, mighty, but benevolent, cloud-dwelling deityBuddha, Monkey is imprisoned under a mountain in order to learn humility. 
  >Eventually Monkey is released by the monk Tripitaka in 630, who has been tasked by the BoddhisatvaGuanyint o undertake a pilgrimage to India to fetch holy scriptures. The pair soon recruits two former members of the heavenly host who were cast out as a result of Monkey's transgressions: Sandy, the water monster and ex-cannibal, expelled from heaven after his interference caused a precious jade cup to be broken, and Pigsy, a pig monster consumed with lust and gluttony, who was expelled from heaven after harassing star princess Vega for a kiss. A dragon, Yu Lung, who was set free by Guanyin after being sentenced to death, eats Tripitaka's horse but upon discovering the horse was carrying Tripitaka, assumes the shape of a horse to carry him on his journey; later in the story he occasionally assumes human form to assist his new master, although he is still always refered to as 'Horse'. Monkey can also change form, for instance in 'The Great Journey Begins' 
  >Monkey transforms into a girl to trick Pigsy. Monkey's other magic included a cloud upon which he could fly, a fighting staff which could be any size and the ability to conjure bare-fisted monkey warriors by blowing on hairs plucked from his chest. 
  >The pilgrims face many perils and antagonists both human and supernatural. Monkey, Sandy, and Pigsy are often called upon to battle demons, monsters and bandits, despite Tripitaka's constant call for peace. Many episodes also feature some moral lesson, usually based upon Buddhistand/ or Taoistphilosophies, which are spoken by the narrator at the end of various scenes. 
  > 
  > 
  >> 
  >>From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk> 
  >>To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
  >>Sent: Sun, 11 October, 2009 7:41:35 PM 
  >>Subject: Re: Theos-World Abhidharma the core of MahÃyÃna and HÃnayÃna? 
  >> 
  >> 
  >>What Monkey? 
  >> 
  >>Funny japanese monkey!! 
  >> http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=msWJ468PVQY& feature=related 
  >>(Video - Since all of us knows Japaneese, I will not translate the words.) 
  >> 
  >>The Wikipedia is very western in its appraoch to this very important subject. 
  >> 
  >>Psychology 
  >> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Psychology 
  >> 
  >>----- Original Message ----- 
  >>From: Cass Silva 
  >>To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
  >>Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 12:45 AM 
  >>Subject: Re: Theos-World Abhidharma the core of MahÃyÃna and HÃnayÃna? 
  >> 
  >>Anyone ever watch 'Monkey'? 
  >>Cass 
  >> 
  >>> 
  >>>From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk> 
  >>>To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
  >>>Sent: Sat, 10 October, 2009 11:38:03 PM 
  >>>Subject: Theos-World Abhidharma the core of MahÃyÃna and HÃnayÃna? 
  >>> 
  >>> 
  >>>Dear friends 
  >>> 
  >>>My views are: 
  >>> 
  >>>HPB wrote: 
  >>>"Tripitaka (Sk.). Lit., "the three baskets"; the name of the Buddhist canon. It is composed of three divisions : (1) the doctrine; (2) the rules and laws for the priesthood and ascetics; (3) the philosophical dissertations and metaphysics: to wit, the Abhidharma, defined by Buddhaghosa as that law (dharma) which goes beyond (abhi) the law. The Abhidharma contains the most profoundly metaphysical and philosophical teachings, and is the store-house whence the MahÃyÃna and HÃnayÃna Schools got their fundamental doctrines. There is a fourth division-the Samyakta Pitaka. But as it is a later addition by the Chinese Buddhists, it is not accepted by the Southern Church of Siam and Ceylon." 
  >>>(The Theosophical Glossary, 1892, published posthumously by GRS Mead) 
  >>> http://www.phx- ult-lodge. org/ATUVWXYZ. htm#t 
  >>> 
  >>>It seems that this Abhidharma teaching must have a very strong esoteric core and flavour attached to it since the fundemental Buddhistic doctrines was based on it. That is what HPB says, and scholars think different even today. 
  >>> 
  >>>- - - - - - - - 
  >>>Abhidharma 
  >>>"In the West, the Abhidhamma has generally been considered the core of what is referred to as 'Buddhist Psychology'. " 
  >>> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Abhidharma 
  >>> 
  >>>The third category, the Abhidhamma Pitaka (literally "beyond the dhamma", "higher dhamma" or "special dhamma", Sanskrit: Abhidharma Pitaka), is a collection of texts which give a systematic philosophical description of the nature of mind, matter and time. There are seven books in the Abhidhamma Pitaka. 
  >>> 
  >>>M. Sufilight 
  >>> 
  >>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 
  >>> 
  >>> 
  >>> 
  >> 
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  >> 
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