Theos-Talk Archives (October 2009 Message tt00110)

I didn't catch it - hopefully it may be recycled on foxtel.
Cass


>
>From: "Augoeides-222@comcast.net" <Augoeides-222@comcast.net>
>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Tue, 13 October, 2009 1:33:49 PM
>Subject: Re: Theos-World Abhidharma the core of MahÃyÃna and HÃnayÃna?
>
>Â 
>
>Cass, 
>When you first posted th question the first thing in my mind was the Monket King epic of Hunaman. The Shaw Brothers Film Production many years ago did a fanstastic Production with no reserve on cost and effects. I saw the movie they made way back in the 1970's it was an extraganza. 
>
>Shaw Bros. Monkey king Google Image Search Listing 
>
>>>>http://www.google. com/#hl=en& source=hp& q=Shaw+Bros. +Movie+Monkey+ King&btnG= Google+Search& aq=f&aqi= &oq=Shaw+ Bros.+Movie+ Monkey+King& fp=c807e9ccc08a1 97a<<< 
>
>The Movie Monkey --- Travels to the West" 
>
>>>>http://www.gamehead .com.au/DVD- Movies/Action/ Shaw-Brothers- Classics- Monkey-Journey- To-The-West- DVD-Movies/ 115638<<< 
>
>Regards 
>John 
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Cass Silva" <silva_cass@yahoo. com> 
>To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
>Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 5:50:03 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
>Subject: Re: Theos-World Abhidharma the core of MahÃyÃna and HÃnayÃna? 
>
>At the time of viewing the show I had little idea on theosophical connections - simply enjoyed it from a philosophical point of view, couched in humour around Monkey, Pigsy,Fish etc. Especially loved the way Monkey called up his cloud! 
>
>Cass 
>
>> 
>>From: Morten Nymann Olesen < global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk > 
>>To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
>>Sent: Tue, 13 October, 2009 7:03:28 AM 
>>Subject: Re: Theos-World Abhidharma the core of MahÃyÃna and HÃnayÃna? 
>> 
>> 
>>Dear Cass and friends 
>> 
>>My views are: 
>> 
>>Thanks Cass! 
>>I like that story very much. And I will seek to tell you and the readers why. 
>> 
>>Oh yes. 
>>I have read that book and seen the movie as well. 
>>It has in fact been shown on TV here in Denmark. 
>> 
>>Wu Cheng'en (Sun Wukong - The Monkey King) 
>> http://www.china- on-site.com/ monkey.php (A sweet but minor Online version with pictures - 100 pages) 
>> http://www.chine- informations. com/fichiers/ jourwest. pdf (Full English vewrsion 1400 pages). 
>> 
>>Sun Wukong ("Sun" implies his origin as a monkey, and "Wukong" means aware of emptiness). 
>>I think, that The title of the story "Journey to the West" is not the best when we these days think about the countries West of Tibet. 
>> 
>>In fact this monkey in the story reminds me of me own little self . You see I was, sad to say it, very impatient when I was a child. And when was more young, I had also many times - over-eagerly - thought that running up on the Buddha mountain must be as easy as a piece of cake etc, etc. But the over-eagerly part has later changed into something else. Life is a removal of ignorance. 
>> 
>>Wu Cheng'en (The Monkey King) is a Great plot. 
>>Humility is an important key in the story. And we often witness, that this is a problem in western counteries. The westerner being too youthful in nature and too reckless, and simply way too eager to run up the (perceived) hills, just to fail and fall down the "Himalayan mountains" or rather the spiritual planes. And extremely Impatient creatures are these western ones as well. The Monkey Kings's fascination with silly ideas is telling. For instance his experience of standing on Buddha's palm. Writing on Buddhas fingers: "The Greatest Sage has been here". :-) 
>> 
>>In fact some of them - the Westerners or what we aught to call them - arrive at theosophical groups and forums. They expect enlightenment immediately or to learn to levitate or clairvoyance on a high level within a fews weeks - or experience miracles in a number similar to flowers falling like raindrops from the sky - and that even as part of a strange and silly entertainment idea of theirs. And when it does not happen due to Karma or compassion, they leave or begin some quite disturbing communications. They need something else first, and we can not give them want they crave and want. They need humility, or to be patient, or simply to learn to listen - and absorb the teachings offered. - Well, that is at least what I have learnt. - Well, in part I guess. - Well, come to think of it, I better say: I hope I have learned it. 
>>:-) 
>> 
>>- - - - - - - 
>>Now we know that Wikipedia is not always solid. But the following might be useful. 
>> 
>>Tripitaka 
>>"In the Tibetan tradition, on the other hand, when attempts are made to explain the application of the term Tripiáaka to the Kanjur, the Tibetan canon of scripture, the Abhidharma Piáaka is considered as consisting of the PrajÃÄpÄramitÄ." 
>> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Tripi%E1% B9%ADaka 
>> 
>>Prajnaparamita 
>>"The earliest sutra in this class is the AááasÄhasrikÄ PrajÃÄpÄramitÄ SÅtra or "Perfection of Wisdom in 8,000 Lines", which was probably put in writing about 100 BC and is one of the earliest Mahayana sutras. More material was gradually compiled over the next two centuries. As well as the sutra itself, there is a summary in verse, the Ratnaguáasaácaya GÄthÄ, which some believe to be slightly older because it is not written in standard literary Sanskrit." 
>> 
>>"Between the years 100 and 300, this text was expanded into large versions in 10,000, 18,000, 25,000 and 100,000 lines, collectively known as the "Large Perfection of Wisdom". These differ mainly in the extent to which the many lists are either abbreviated or written out in full; the rest of the text is mostly unchanged between the different versions. Since the large versions proved to be unwieldy, they were later summarized into shorter versions, produced between the years 300 and 500. The shorter versions include the Heart Sutra (PrajÃÄpÄramitÄ Hádaya) and the Diamond Sutra (PrajÃÄpÄramitÄ VajracchedikÄ SÅtra). These two are widely popular and have had a great influence on the development of Mahayana Buddhism. Tantric versions of the Prajnaparamita literature were produced from the year 500 on. The Prajnaparamita terma teachings are held to have been conferred upon Nagarjuna by Nagaraja, the King of the nagas, who had been guarding them
 at 
>the bottom of a lake." 
>> 
>>Chinese translation 
>> 
>>Xuanzang returned to China from India with three copies of the Mahaprajnaparamita Sutra which he had secured from his extensive travels.[1] Xuanzang, with a team of disciple translators, commenced translating the voluminous work in 660 using the three versions to ensure the integrity of the source documentation. [1] Xuanzang was being encouraged by a number of the disciple translators to render an abridged version. After a suite of dreams quickened his decision, Xuanzang determined to render an unabridged, complete volume, faithful to the original of 600 chapters." 
>> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Prajnaparamita 
>> 
>>And Xuanzang's life it is said "wrote" or inspired this "The Monkey King" story. 
>> 
>>Now translations and their content can always be discussed. And the story is said to contain several layers of knowledge. 
>>I bet Xuanzang was not the first one to travel from China to Tibet - i.e. Journeying West. In the western countries European and American countries story could fittingly be called "Journey to the East". 
>> 
>>In fact it is very telling how much and how many times the Himalaya's have outsmarted other cultures; and new fangled New Age teachers from the Western countries :-) 
>> 
>>- - - - - - - 
>> 
>>THE HEART's SEAL and Heartflow 
>> 
>>HPB said quite interestingly: 
>>"Among the commandments of Tsong-kha-pa there is one that enjoins the Rahats (Arhats) to make an attempt to enlighten the world, including the âwhite barbarians,â every century, at a certain specified period of the cycle. Up to the present day none of these attempts has been very successful. Failure has followed failure. Have we to explain the fact by the light of a certain prophecy? It is said that up to the time when Pan-chhen-rin- po-chhe (the Great Jewel of Wisdom)* condescends to be reborn in the land of the Pelings (Westerners) , and appearing as the Spiritual Conqueror (Chom-den-da) , destroys the errors and ignorance of the ages, it will be of little use to try to uproot the misconceptions of Peling-pa (Europe): her sons will listen to no one. Another prophecy declares that the Secret Doctrine shall remain in all its purity in Bod-yul (Tibet), only to the day that it is kept free from foreign invasion. The very visits of Western natives, 
>however friendly, would be baneful to the Tibetan populations. This is the true key to Tibetan exclusiveness.â 
>>âââââ 
>>* A title of the Tashi-lhunpo Lama. 
>>â [See Lucifer, Vol. XV, pp. 97-98 and B.C.W. Vol. VI, p. 105.] " 
>> http://www.katinkah esselink. net/blavatsky/ articles/ v14/mb_009. htm (though Posthumously Published) 
>> 
>>And it is quite mind-baffling to consider that HPB said....: 
>>"But it is only in the Trans-Himlayan fastnessesâloosely called Tibetâin the most inaccessible spots of desert and mountain, that the Esoteric âGood Lawââthe âHeartâs Sealââlives to the present day in all its pristine purity." 
>>... 
>>"The âHeart Doctrine,â or the âHeartâs Sealâ (the Sin Yin) is the only real one. This may be found corroborated by Hiuen Tsang. In his translation of MahÃ-PrajÃÃ-PÃramità (Ta-poh-je-King) , in one hundred and twenty volumes, it is stated that it was Buddhaâs âfavourite disciple Ananda,â who, after his great Master had gone into NirvÃna, was commissioned by KÃsyapa to promulgate âthe Eye of the Doctrine,â the âHeartâ of the Law having been left with the Arhats alone." 
>> 
>>A comment: 
>>And that it is well-known that this Seal is Buddha's Swastika, which in the olden days was placed as a symbol on the chest of the dead Arhat. - Now you tell me if these 120 volumes are available to westerners these days? 
>> 
>>M. Sufilight 
>> 
>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: Cass Silva 
>>To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
>>Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 1:32 AM 
>>Subject: Re: Theos-World Abhidharma the core of MahÃyÃna and HÃnayÃna? 
>> 
>>Monkeyis the dubbed English language version of the Japanese television seriesSaiyÅki (èéè?), based on the classic Chinese novelJourney to the West by Wu Cheng'en.[1] It was originally produced by Nippon Television(NTV) and International Television Films in association with NHK. 
>>The series ran for two seasons of 26 episodes each. The first season ran from October 1978 to April 1979. The second season ran from November 1979 to May 1980. Both seasons had footage shot on location in north-west China and Inner Mongolia. 
>>Plot summary 
>>Monkey, the title character, "born from an egg on a mountain top", was a brash king of a monkey tribe (indeed, the title song goes so far as to claim that he was the "funkiest monkey that ever popped"). He achieved a little "enlightenment" and proclaimed himself "Great Sage, Equal of Heaven". After demanding the "gift" of a magical stafffrom a powerful Dragon king, Monkey is approached by Heaven to join their host in the lowly position of "Keeper of the Peach Garden of Immortality" . Monkey eats them all, becomes immortal and runs amok. Having earned the ire of Heavenand being bested in a challenge by an omniscient, mighty, but benevolent, cloud-dwelling deityBuddha, Monkey is imprisoned under a mountain in order to learn humility. 
>>Eventually Monkey is released by the monk Tripitaka in 630, who has been tasked by the BoddhisatvaGuanyint o undertake a pilgrimage to India to fetch holy scriptures. The pair soon recruits two former members of the heavenly host who were cast out as a result of Monkey's transgressions: Sandy, the water monster and ex-cannibal, expelled from heaven after his interference caused a precious jade cup to be broken, and Pigsy, a pig monster consumed with lust and gluttony, who was expelled from heaven after harassing star princess Vega for a kiss. A dragon, Yu Lung, who was set free by Guanyin after being sentenced to death, eats Tripitaka's horse but upon discovering the horse was carrying Tripitaka, assumes the shape of a horse to carry him on his journey; later in the story he occasionally assumes human form to assist his new master, although he is still always refered to as 'Horse'. Monkey can also change form, for instance in 'The Great Journey Begins' 
>>Monkey transforms into a girl to trick Pigsy. Monkey's other magic included a cloud upon which he could fly, a fighting staff which could be any size and the ability to conjure bare-fisted monkey warriors by blowing on hairs plucked from his chest. 
>>The pilgrims face many perils and antagonists both human and supernatural. Monkey, Sandy, and Pigsy are often called upon to battle demons, monsters and bandits, despite Tripitaka's constant call for peace. Many episodes also feature some moral lesson, usually based upon Buddhistand/ or Taoistphilosophies, which are spoken by the narrator at the end of various scenes. 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>>From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk> 
>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
>>>Sent: Sun, 11 October, 2009 7:41:35 PM 
>>>Subject: Re: Theos-World Abhidharma the core of MahÃyÃna and HÃnayÃna? 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>What Monkey? 
>>> 
>>>Funny japanese monkey!! 
>>> http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=msWJ468PVQY& feature=related 
>>>(Video - Since all of us knows Japaneese, I will not translate the words.) 
>>> 
>>>The Wikipedia is very western in its appraoch to this very important subject. 
>>> 
>>>Psychology 
>>> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Psychology 
>>> 
>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>From: Cass Silva 
>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
>>>Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 12:45 AM 
>>>Subject: Re: Theos-World Abhidharma the core of MahÃyÃna and HÃnayÃna? 
>>> 
>>>Anyone ever watch 'Monkey'? 
>>>Cass 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk> 
>>>>To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
>>>>Sent: Sat, 10 October, 2009 11:38:03 PM 
>>>>Subject: Theos-World Abhidharma the core of MahÃyÃna and HÃnayÃna? 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>Dear friends 
>>>> 
>>>>My views are: 
>>>> 
>>>>HPB wrote: 
>>>>"Tripitaka (Sk.). Lit., "the three baskets"; the name of the Buddhist canon. It is composed of three divisions : (1) the doctrine; (2) the rules and laws for the priesthood and ascetics; (3) the philosophical dissertations and metaphysics: to wit, the Abhidharma, defined by Buddhaghosa as that law (dharma) which goes beyond (abhi) the law. The Abhidharma contains the most profoundly metaphysical and philosophical teachings, and is the store-house whence the MahÃyÃna and HÃnayÃna Schools got their fundamental doctrines. There is a fourth division-the Samyakta Pitaka. But as it is a later addition by the Chinese Buddhists, it is not accepted by the Southern Church of Siam and Ceylon." 
>>>>(The Theosophical Glossary, 1892, published posthumously by GRS Mead) 
>>>> http://www.phx- ult-lodge. org/ATUVWXYZ. htm#t 
>>>> 
>>>>It seems that this Abhidharma teaching must have a very strong esoteric core and flavour attached to it since the fundemental Buddhistic doctrines was based on it. That is what HPB says, and scholars think different even today. 
>>>> 
>>>>- - - - - - - - 
>>>>Abhidharma 
>>>>"In the West, the Abhidhamma has generally been considered the core of what is referred to as 'Buddhist Psychology'. " 
>>>> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Abhidharma 
>>>> 
>>>>The third category, the Abhidhamma Pitaka (literally "beyond the dhamma", "higher dhamma" or "special dhamma", Sanskrit: Abhidharma Pitaka), is a collection of texts which give a systematic philosophical description of the nature of mind, matter and time. There are seven books in the Abhidhamma Pitaka. 
>>>> 
>>>>M. Sufilight 
>>>> 
>>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
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