Theos-Talk Archives (October 2009 Message tt00104)

Dear John


My views are:

1.

This one?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amarapura_Nikaya
or this
http://www.karava.org/amarapura_sect

HPB about the Amarapura sect:
"But if âM. A., Oxon,â is after all right, then we welcome the threat held out by him on behalf of Mr. Rhys-Davids, of bringing forward âhis own private reserves of Buddhism.â That accomplished Pali scholar has studied his Southern Buddhism in Ceylon, we believe, under the same masters of Buddhist religion, who have sanctioned Colonel Olcottâs Buddhist Catechism. That the âBuddhismâ of Mr. Rhys-Davids, is in spirit quite at variance with the teachings of the Catechism is evident. Let the Buddhists âchoose this day whom they will serve,â whether the esoteric or the exoteric doctrine, the tenets of the Southern Siamese, or of the Southern Amarapura sect. as explained and amplified by the esoteric tenets of the Arhats which are utterly unknown to the Buddhist Orientalists. The fact alone, that Mr. Rhys-Davids, in his Buddhism, defines âAvalokiteswaraâ (pp. 202-203) as âthe Lord who looks down from on high,â is sufficient to show any student of Eastern languages, not to speak of occultism, how deplorably ignorant of the metaphysical meaning of words and names may be the greatest of Pali scholars in the West."
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v5/y1883_158.htm

Yet it is a sect, and not esoteric in any Gelug-Pa sense.

As mentioned earliere, HPB said:
"Real Buddhism can be appreciated only by blending the philosophy of the Southern Church and the metaphysics of the Northern Schools. If one seems too iconoclastic and stern, and the other too metaphysical and transcendental, even to being overgrown with the weeds of Indian exotericismâmany of the gods of its Pantheon having been transplanted under new names to Tibetan soilâit is entirely due to the popular expression of Buddhism in both Churches. " (TS Glossary by HPB, Posthumously)


>From the top of my head, I find something to the fact that this groups existence through time have somethign to do with the fact that Ceylon in the past have been visited by great Initiates, and because of that the Therevadin texts have been given a more esoteric flavour. I think HPB said something about this somewhere, but whether it was about these Amarapura's I cannot really remember now.

There are Orthodox Buddhism, and much of it in the Southern Buddhism, yet even Norther Buddhism have degenerated. Even at the time HPB this was true, and she mentioned it. - Yet the esoteric spark was alive in the Sourthern School, yet barely we might say.
Yet the psychological doctrine of the Southern School was and is important according to HPB.

- - - - - - - -


2.

Anuttara Samyak Sambodhi
http://www.dharmaweb.org/index.php/Heart_Sutra:_Buddhism_in_the_Light_of_Quantum_Reality

- - -

But the follow strikes me as important to add, when dealing with the Heart Sutra...

THE HEART's SEAL and Heartflow

HPB said quite interestingly:
"Among the commandments of Tsong-kha-pa there is one that enjoins the Rahats (Arhats) to make an attempt to enlighten the world, including the âwhite barbarians,â every century, at a certain specified period of the cycle. Up to the present day none of these attempts has been very successful. Failure has followed failure. Have we to explain the fact by the light of a certain prophecy? It is said that up to the time when Pan-chhen-rin-po-chhe (the Great Jewel of Wisdom)* condescends to be reborn in the land of the Pelings (Westerners), and appearing as the Spiritual Conqueror (Chom-den-da), destroys the errors and ignorance of the ages, it will be of little use to try to uproot the misconceptions of Peling-pa (Europe): her sons will listen to no one. Another prophecy declares that the Secret Doctrine shall remain in all its purity in Bod-yul (Tibet), only to the day that it is kept free from foreign invasion. The very visits of Western natives, however friendly, would be baneful to the Tibetan populations. This is the true key to Tibetan exclusiveness.â 
âââââ
* A title of the Tashi-lhunpo Lama.
â [See Lucifer, Vol. XV, pp. 97-98 and B.C.W. Vol. VI, p. 105.] "
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v14/mb_009.htm (though Posthumously Published)


And it is quite mind-baffling to consider that HPB said....:
"But it is only in the Trans-Himlayan fastnessesâloosely called Tibetâin the most inaccessible spots of desert and mountain, that the Esoteric âGood Lawââthe âHeartâs Sealââlives to the present day in all its pristine purity."
...
"The âHeart Doctrine,â or the âHeartâs Sealâ (the Sin Yin) is the only real one. This may be found corroborated by Hiuen Tsang. In his translation of MahÃ-PrajÃÃ-PÃramità (Ta-poh-je-King), in one hundred and twenty volumes, it is stated that it was Buddhaâs âfavourite disciple Ananda,â who, after his great Master had gone into NirvÃna, was commissioned by KÃsyapa to promulgate âthe Eye of the Doctrine,â the âHeartâ of the Law having been left with the Arhats alone."

A comment:
And that it is well-known that this Seal is Buddha's Swastika, which in the olden days was placed as a symbol on the chest of the dead Arhat. - Now you tell me if these 120 volumes are available to westerners these days?

- - -

And please understand: Now I am claim not be a thesophical expert in these matters, and htat I have also learned from this thread already.



M. Sufilight

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 7:31 PM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World Abhidharma the core of MahÃyÃna and HÃnayÃna?


    Morten, 
  Thanks for your reply and comments. I might just comment in your previos post you mentioned the Amarapura Sect of Ceylon. I was not familiar of it so I did a google image search as that is my usual preference but It did not appear as described. Instead it pointedly indicated Myanmar's (Malasia) Capitol City of Amarapura and displayed the magnificient temple of white with it's single spire breaking the heaven there. 

  I often have a misplaced recall myself, would you mind elaborating a little more on the Amarapura Sect? Perjhapsa link if you have one? 

  Regards, 
  John 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk> 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 8:48:06 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
  Subject: Re: Theos-World Abhidharma the core of MahÃyÃna and HÃnayÃna? 

  Thank you for your interesting reply. 
  And yes, I agree. I also find it is good to compare other teachings with the theosophical ones and not only those written by H. P. Blavatsky. Yet a tree is most often known on its fruits. 

  M. Sufilight 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 12:48 AM 
  Subject: Re: Theos-World Abhidharma the core of MahÃyÃna and HÃnayÃna? 

  Morten, 
  In case some think I am condemning the Southern School I want to say I am not I respect the Theravadin. I was simplly pointing out the significant difference in approach between the two. As in all there are paths for those who by reason of constitution they are prevented from the sudden resource and in the meantime progress incrementally. In reality all arrive as they all have never left, Leela is maintenance. 

  Madame Blavatsky gave a view point it is not a bible there can and are views that can or do expand upon the commentary nothing is totally complete until one arrives home. Just my view, I am always looking to expand understanding within and without Theosophical expression. 

  Well, she spoke highly of other things as well I give her good credit for doing so and appreciate it. But she doesn't use it as a rapier ripose' lol. 

  At any rate here are a couple of links you or others may care to peruse: 

  Samyakatva - A True Vision - Jain 

  >>> http://www.jainuniversity.org/PDFs/eng-lib/4.10.pdf <<< 

  Anutarra Samyak Sambodhi 

  >>> http://wanderling.tripod.com/anuttara.html <<< 

  Google Image Search - Anuttara Samyak Sambhodi 

  >>> http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=samyaksambodhi&aq=f&aqi=g-s1g-ms1&oq=&fp=2cca7b2e99206b9c <<< 

  Regards, 
  John 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" < global-theosophy@stofanet.dk > 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 1:27:40 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
  Subject: Re: Theos-World Abhidharma the core of MahÃyÃna and HÃnayÃna? 

  Yes, when we talk about certain groups of the Southern School, but not the esoteric version of the teachings. 
  And Yes the Southern School in general is not favoured because of what you are saying. 

  Let us hear HPB on the issue... 

  HPB in the Theosophical Glossary (posthumously published, 1892): 
  "Buddhism. Buddhism is now split into two distinct Churches : the Southern and the Northern Church. The former is said to be the purer form, as having preserved more religiously the original teachings of the Lord Buddha. It is the religion of Ceylon, Siam, Burmah and other places, while Northern Buddhism is confined to Tibet, China and Nepaul. Such a distinction, however, is incorrect. If the Southern Church is nearer, in that it has not departed, except perhaps in some trifling dogmas due to the many councils held after the death of the Master, from the public or exoteric teachings of SÃkyamuniâthe Northern Church is the outcome of SiddhÃrta Buddhaâs esoteric teachings which he confined to his elect Bhikshus and Arhats. In fact, Buddhism in the present age, cannot he justly judged either by one or the other of its exoteric popular forms. Real Buddhism can be appreciated only by blending the philosophy of the Southern Church and the metaphysics of the Northern Schools. If one seems too iconoclastic and stern, and the other too metaphysical and transcendental, even to being overgrown with the weeds of Indian exotericismâmany of the gods of its Pantheon having been transplanted under new names to Tibetan soilâit is entirely due to the popular expression of Buddhism in both Churches. Correspondentially they stand in their relation to each other as Protestantism to Roman Catholicism. Both err by an excess of zeal and erroneous interpretations, though neither the Southern nor the Northern Buddhist clergy have ever departed from truth consciously, still less have they acted under the dictates of priestocracy, ambition, or with an eye to personal gain and power, as the two Christian Churches have." 
  http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/Aglossary.htm#b 

  HPB spoke highly about the Amarapura sect on Ceylon. 

  Allright? 

  M. Sufilight 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 8:58 PM 
  Subject: Re: Theos-World Abhidharma the core of MahÃyÃna and HÃnayÃna? 

  Morten, 
  The demarcation that distinguishes between the Mahayana and the Southern Buddhism is that the Southern School is the "gradual " that clasps tightly to the proposition that we all are in invariable unalterable samsaric journey that we can do nothing about and that there is no solution for anyone who is not avatara or already Bodhisattva. The rest of us must travail in suffering until creation ends. However the Mahayana is the "sudden" School which holds that we are all buddha already and can have "sudden" transformation and illumination and liberation. It is the southern school that rejects this view and that is way it has remark on the Chinese Mahayana Ch'an which Madame Blavatsky called "The Sweet Singers of History" because she knew they were the Trustee's of the Mantra Science among other things. The characterization is only indicating the Three Turnings of the Wheel of Buddhism, Hinayana or Therevada Buddhism holds to only the 1st Turning. 

  Regards, 
  John 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" < global-theosophy@stofanet.dk > 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 5:38:03 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
  Subject: Theos-World Abhidharma the core of MahÃyÃna and HÃnayÃna? 

  Dear friends 

  My views are: 

  HPB wrote: 
  "Tripitaka (Sk.). Lit., "the three baskets"; the name of the Buddhist canon. It is composed of three divisions : (1) the doctrine; (2) the rules and laws for the priesthood and ascetics; (3) the philosophical dissertations and metaphysics: to wit, the Abhidharma, defined by Buddhaghosa as that law (dharma) which goes beyond (abhi) the law. The Abhidharma contains the most profoundly metaphysical and philosophical teachings, and is the store-house whence the MahÃyÃna and HÃnayÃna Schools got their fundamental doctrines. There is a fourth division-the Samyakta Pitaka. But as it is a later addition by the Chinese Buddhists, it is not accepted by the Southern Church of Siam and Ceylon." 
  (The Theosophical Glossary, 1892, published posthumously by GRS Mead) 
  http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/ATUVWXYZ.htm#t 

  It seems that this Abhidharma teaching must have a very strong esoteric core and flavour attached to it since the fundemental Buddhistic doctrines was based on it. That is what HPB says, and scholars think different even today. 

  - - - - - - - - 
  Abhidharma 
  "In the West, the Abhidhamma has generally been considered the core of what is referred to as 'Buddhist Psychology'." 
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abhidharma 

  The third category, the Abhidhamma Pitaka (literally "beyond the dhamma", "higher dhamma" or "special dhamma", Sanskrit: Abhidharma Pitaka), is a collection of texts which give a systematic philosophical description of the nature of mind, matter and time. There are seven books in the Abhidhamma Pitaka. 

  M. Sufilight 

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