Theos-Talk Archives (September 2009 Message tt00062)

Morten, 
Well it takes in quite lot of history in my view and I have views that collide with fixed idea's lol. I entertain the view that the Bon might be the ancient "Pre-buddhist Buddhists that HPB pointed to. The reason why is that the Nyingpa openly have posted that they originally received the Dzogchen from the Bon who possessed it for centurys, the same for the Kagyu in my view. All the various sects then who were prior to the appearance of the Gelug have to be continuers of the Bon Transmission irrespective of any declaration of Theosophy or HPB. I have several times posted of the pinnacle importance of the Rimed Legacy and Lineage and Transmission on this Forum in regards to "How the Swans Came to America". Luminous Mind and Clear Primordial Awareness and the Absolutism of HPB seem to me to be the same Principle Teaching however clothed or adorned. Tibet has long had the five sacred colors it seems natural that they may also communicate a context of five primary transmission sects regarding Tibetan mind consciousness streams as well as the five Buddha Family's, Dhyan Chohans, Skandhas, etc. "How do we count" is a great proposition that indicates framework of organization. Shalu Temple is a very interesting history. BTW , there have been many Tibetan Women Adepts and there are some good online websites with short biography's and also some Photos of some of them. Here is a nice PDF File about "Awareness". 

Ordinary Awareness & Pristine Awareness 

>>>ttp://www.jonangfoundation.org/pdf/jf_rangjung_1.pdf<<< 

Whether Scientology "Thetan", Theosophical "Monad", Sparks, Rays, or "Units of Awareness" of the Absolute, the process is identical, the Absolute "wills" "The Game Leela" by the projection of a maya creation which is the "secondary" within which "Units of Awareness" (You, me, others) may take position and viewpoint and assume a secondary beingness ( I AM-That- I AM" in samsara journey of experiential extension. The 5 acts of Siva' Projection, Maintenance, Veiling, Withdrawal and Grace describe the environment of the Leela Game and Return . A secondary maya is projected, by Kriya it is caused to Persist (Maintenance) in order for the Game to continue, at an appropiate developmental stage "Veiling" occurs ( what is "veiled" is the essential original memory of our Non-Dual Beingness and (Our original Nature as Absolute). As the creation builds "the 4th action initiates - viz "Withdrawal" ( the Withdrawal indicates that even the memory of the Absolute Nature itself is removed, blinded, occluded and is unaccessable to our consciousness whilst partaking of the "sport" of secondary maya : matter , energy, space and time and physical quasi-tangibility"s made concrete by the expedient creation of "mind" (an instrumentality necessary in the secondary creation projection which takes place in the ground of the Divine Fire, Life and Wisdom in which we all have Participation whether conscious or unconscious of the fact. The Mandaean Declaration "And Life is Victorious" is a statement of Truth. 

Seeing With Naked Awareness 

Dream Yoga and the practice of the Natural Light 

The Heart Drops of the Dharmakaya teaching of the Bon (Blavatsky got her Heart Drop) 

Ornament of Stainless Light (On the Kalachakra) 

Radiant Luminous Mind 

are all good search and research topics that when explored and read evidence parellel ground with Blavatsky's Doctrine. 

The Anuttara Yoga was held by others previos to the gelug plunder of their legacy. Modern scholars find deficiencys with the versions of Evens-Wentz and do not rate him as high as Theosophists do. 

>>>are great magicians and indulge in practices an Adept of the good Law would feel disgusted with -- such as the well known phenomenon of ripping open the abdomen, exposing the intestines, and then restoring them to their normal place and condition, &c. &c.<<< 

My view is this technique above may only be obtained by the senior projection ito the mind screen of those who are forced to have that perception by operation of the senior agancy, the Adept who remained whole and unchanged throughout. There was no real disgorgement but only a practiced "projected reality" that was received by the lesser minds individual and together. 

I haven't read the "Kauthumpa" text yet so I can't give my viewpoint, more later. 
Regards, 
John 



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk> 
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2009 1:31:38 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: Re: Theos-World Ratna-gotra-vibhaga and H. P. Blavatsky 






Dear friends and John 

My views are: 

Thanks John. 

1. 
Jamgon Kongtrul (1813-1899) co-founder of the Tibetan Buddhist non-secterian synthesis Ri-me Movement. 
Jamgon Kongtrul are honored as lineage-holders of all the lineages of Tibetan Buddhism, although he is primarily identified with it in the Kagyu lineage. 
Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamgon_Kongtrul 

A question: 
Now was and is the Kongtrul's teachings an expression of the same doktrines as those HPB and Master Morya and KH sought to promote? 

If so, it would perhaps be interesting to contemplate that Kongtrul was lineage holder af the Mahamudra (the gelug AnuttaraYoga Tantra) - "The Golden Kagyu Garland". And that this lineage was called the White Dynasty by the author W. Y. Evans-Wentz or called the White Karma branch by others. Jamgon Kongtrul is by some rumoured to have used more than one body while being alive. 

- - - 
2. 
Damodar K. Mavalankar said: 
"Note. -- We know of only one MAHATMA bearing the name of my venerated GURU DEVA who holds a well-known public office in Thibet, under the TESHU LAMA. For aught we know there may be another bearing the same name; but at any rate he is not known to us, nor have any of those, we are acquainted with in Thibet, heard of him. And this personage, my BELOVED MASTER, is, as I have described Him, resembling the portrait in Mr. Sinnett's possession, and and does not look old. Perhaps the clairvoyants are confounding the sect of Khadampas with the Kauthumpas? The former, although not regular Dougpas, are great magicians and indulge in practices an Adept of the good Law would feel disgusted with -- such as the well known phenomenon of ripping open the abdomen, exposing the intestines, and then restoring them to their normal place and condition, &c. &c. The latter, the Kauthumpas, are the disciples of my MASTER." ( http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/damodar/dam4.htm ). (Recommended to be read online with italics included etc.) 

Now we know who the Khadampas was. Then we must also be able to identify who the Kauthumpas was. Who were they? 
It seems likely that The Kauthumpas was taught by KH at Shi-Gatze if we follow to HPB's words. A branch of Gelugpa. 

3. 
An interesting place to consider in this connection is Shalu Monastery. 

Shalu Monastery 
"Buton's activity inevitably attracted a great deal of attention to the monastery and brought in other Buddhist interllectuals around Tibet and India to study in the grounds amounting to some 3000 by 1360. After his death the monastery became an important epicentre of esoteric studies and psychic training for centuries. The avowed purpose of lamas who cultivated paranormal abilities were not to become magicians or miracle workers but to attain philosophical enlightenment, a belief that all earthly phenonoma are a state of the mind. Shalu Temple became known throughout the far east for its dedication to these philosophies and its enlightenment of the Buddhist faith." 
... 
"Shalu Lakhang temple is in the centre of the monastery. On the ground floor, in the Tshomchen, Sakyamuni and his disciples are enshrined. The chapels flanking it house the Tanjur and the Kanjur books respectively. Chapels on the roof floor are typical Chinese blue tiled structures, housing Sakyamuni, Buton, and Arhats Buddhas. Massive delicate and old murals cover the walls of the monastery, mostly depicting stories from the life of the Buddha. Restoration and preservation are badly needed to protect those arts." 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E1%B9%A2alu_Monastery 

It seems to me, that there is a very very strong energy at this place even today with its libraries etc. 

- - - 
Samding Monastery 
And Samding Monastery (The only officially known Tibetan Buddhist monastery run by a female.) 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samding_Monastery 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorje_Pakmo 
- - - 

4. 
The Secret Doctrine by H. P. Blavatsky, vol. 1, p. 307-308: 
"All the thoughts and emotions, all the learning and knowledge, revealed and acquired, of the early races, found their pictorial expression in allegory and parable. Why? Because >>the spoken word has a potency unknown to, unsuspected and disbelieved in<<, by the modern "sages." Because sound and rhythm are closely related to the four Elements of the Ancients; and because such or another vibration in the air is sure to awaken corresponding powers, union with which produces good or bad results, as the case may be. No student was ever allowed to recite historical, religious, or any real events in so many unmistakable words, lest the powers connected with the event should be once more attracted. Such events were narrated only during the Initiation, and every student had to record them in corresponding symbols, drawn out of his own mind and examined later by his master, before they were finally accepted. Thus was created in time the Chinese Alphabet, as, before that, the hieratic symbols were fixed upon in old Egypt." (Arrows used by M. Sufilight to emphasize italics). 
. . . . . . . 
"The peculiarity of this language was that it could be contained in another, concealed and not to be perceived, save through the help of special instruction; letters and syllabic signs possessing at the same time the powers or meaning of numbers, of geometrical shapes, pictures, or ideographs and symbols, the designed scope of which would be determinatively helped out by parables in the shape of narratives or parts of narratives; while also it could be set forth separately, independently, and variously, by pictures, in stone work, or in earth construction." 
http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/SDVolume_I.htm 

And Ratna-gotra-vibhaga might have followed such hidden diamond kind of pattern. 

M. Sufilight 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Augoeides-222@comcast.net 
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 9:51 PM 
Subject: Re: Theos-World Ratna-gotra-vibhaga and H. P. Blavatsky 

Morten, 
In my recent notes I have: 

The Mahayanottaratantrashastra, ratnagotravibhanga, Tib. theg pa chen po rgyud bla mai bstan (The Supreme Continuum of The Mahayana) as one of the 5 works of the translation of Asanga's Translation of the Maitreya Texts. 

Here are the names of the other four: 

1) Ornament for Clear Realization - Abhisamalankara-Tib. mngon par rtogs pa'i i rigyan 

2) Ornament for the Mahayana Sutras - Mahayanasutralankara - Tib. theg pa chen po i mdo sde i rgyan 

3) Distinguishing Phenomena and Pure Being (Nature of Phenomena) - Dharmadharmata Vibhanga - Tib. chos dang chos nyid rnam par byed pa 

4) Distinguishing the Middle and the Extremes - Madhyanta Vibhanga - Tib dbus dang mtha rnam par byed pa 

5) also mentioned or associated with the stream ofthe above: 

6) Uttaratantra (Subtle Essense) 

7) Akasa Garbha (Womb of Space) the Space Store Sutra 

John 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" < global-theosophy@stofanet.dk > 
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2009 10:07:55 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: Theos-World Ratna-gotra-vibhaga and H. P. Blavatsky 

Dear friends 

My views are: 

The following by D. Reigle on H. P. Blavatsky's "The Secret Doctrine" might be worth considering. I will perhaps be safe to say, that a part of the Secret Doctrine was based on the below "Ratna-gotra-vibhaga" (i.e. the Secret Book of "Maytreya Buddha"!? ) 

David Reigle: 
>>> 
Blavatsky in a letter to A. P. Sinnett specifically links The Secret Doctrine she was then writing to a secret book of Maitreya: 
I have finished an enormous Introductory Chapter, or Preamble, Prologue, call it what you will; just to show the reader that the text as it goes, every Section beginning with a page of translation from the Book of Dzyan and the Secret Book of "Maytreya Buddha" Champai chhos Nga (in prose, not the five books in verse known, which are a blind) are no fiction. 

[The Letters of H. P. Blavatsky to A. P. Sinnett, p. 195.] 

Given their doctrinal similarity, it is likely that the Ratna-gotra-vibhaga, or more specifically its secret original, is the book of Maitreya that Blavatsky refers to here. The known Ratna-gotra-vibhaga, though it may be a "blind," still apparently represents the same doctrinal standpoint as that of The Secret Doctrine . 
<<< 
http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/reigle01.html 

A question: 
Has anyone read "Ratna-gotra-vibhaga" and what translation into english, if any at all, would be recommend to the students of theosophy? 

M. Sufilight 

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