Theos-Talk Archives (July 2009 Message tt00326)

I thank for the feedback and support from everyone on my message regarding
non-notification of the death of Dr C V Agarwal, one of the key
International Officers of TS. Let us keep our eye on the ball and respond to
two key issues.
.
1. Dr. Agarwalâs Obituary
.
There is no excuse for not quickly (within hours/days) letting members know
about his passing away. It should have been done by any and all elected
officials around the world who learnt about it. (Thanks to Preethi, who
tipped me off about his passing.) Only one did it, to the best of my
knowledge. It is John Vostermans, who put it in the July 2009  newsletter of
the Indo Pacific Federation. He should be congratulated. I think this is not
the way we treat devoted and dedicated long time members when they pass
away. If this issue fell through the cracks, we need to look into it so that
it is never repeated ever again.
.
2. Disenfranchisement
.
Anand is one of the few members who saw how catastrophic disenfranchisement
move was. Ask any man or woman in the street what would be consequence of a
bunch of grey haired men and women take over the appointment of President
and take away the voting power of the dues paying members around the world.
It was indeed ultra secret. Where did the long time members and workers in
Adyar and other National Centers around world learnt about the move? It was
from theos-talk and not even from the usual grapevine. Can anyone imagine
the long term consequences to TS if the move had succeeded and all of us
woke up one day and find we have lost our voting privileges for ever?
.
Soon after its discovery and world-wide broadcast, ordinary members saw what
it really was, especially when you look at the timing and the people behind
it. Did those who started the move recognize how it was received by members
around the world when they found out and publicly admit the error and
apologize immediately? No. If they were still convinced that it is a very
good thing for the TS, did they write and speak about it to gather support
from the members? No. Did they notify the International Secretary that they
are withdrawing the move? No. The only conclusion that a common man or woman
can come to is that they are keeping silent and lying low, only waiting for
a future opportunity to seize the power. That is why I keep reminding
members about it and need for vigilance from everyone.
.
Transparency and checks and balances are the foundations of democracy. While
giving the monopoly authority of nomination to the general council members,
the actual voting was reserved to the members - one person one vote. It is
to be noted that each general secretary can nominate three candidates
whether they represent a section with 300 members or 12000 members, thus
providing unbalanced nomination power. The lack of transparency is, in my
humble opinion, at the root of the problems starting with the election
nomination, subsequent events and the current cleavage in the TS.
.
We need to prod the silent dues paying members to think about these
important issues and motivate and spur them to action. Alert vigilance is
needed, especially in the light of continued silence of the elected
officials in interacting with the members. When did you see any of them here
or other Internet forums interacting and discussing important issues? They
may claim they are too busy with work. So is everyone of us who work full
time to provide food and shelter to ourselves and families, yet we find time
to post messages here using our own time and Internet resources.
.
Messenger aka MKR
.
visit theosophy.net
 .

On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 6:00 AM, preethi muthiah
<seeker_preethi@yahoo.com>wrote:

>
>
> Well, i was against the disenfranchisement move myself; as i am sure every
> member of the TS would be. But i also understand that it was a proposal and
> that the proposal was discussed during the GC meeting on 25 December 2008
> and rejected. Of course, i am not a GC member, so my word does not really
> count either way. I understand that also. It just appears to me that MKR
> keeps trying to take attention away from the real issues facing the TS
> today, the main one being that the President remains silent through all of
> this and continues to do nothing about the issues that have been brought up
> thus far. I will as i have done thus far continue to bring accountability
> issues to the fore; we need an accountable President, an accountable head of
> the ES, a responsible individual to head this organization -- and my views
> on the President's abilities on this account are quite known at the moment.
>
> Preethi
>
> --- On Tue, 21/7/09, Anand <AnandGholap@gmail.com<AnandGholap%40gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> From: Anand <AnandGholap@gmail.com <AnandGholap%40gmail.com>>
> Subject: Theos-World Re: DR. C V Agrawal
>
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Tuesday, 21 July, 2009, 3:40 PM
>
>
>
> Dear MKR, Preethi and All,
>
> Information about disenfranchisement proposal by the quartet was given to
> people by an officer in Adyar. As proposal was disastrous, many serious
> students, including MKR, protested. MKR was right in repeatedly opposing the
> proposal. Not many people here care about what Adyar people say. It does not
> matter whether they call somebody parrot, cat, dog or chimpanzee. It is
> important that what a person writes is honest opinion and he should be
> truthful.
>
> It was certain that disenfranchisement proposal was there. But people don't
> know what happened to it later. They also don't know for sure whether the
> proposal is discarded permanently, or it is still there and come again and
> do great damage to the TS. So, unless there is assurance from Adyar HQ that
> proposal is discarded, how can members remain in peace? HQ has not given any
> information about the disastrous proposal and it is quite understandable
> that serious members like MKR feel disturbed and it is right to oppose it
> until clear information comes out about what is going on.
>
> Roberta is generally balanced and honest in what she says. It is not clear
> for which messages of MKR she ridiculed him. I don't think MKR is against
> improvements. He is against disenfranchisement and there he is right.
>
> I think improvements in constitution are required, but I am against
> disenfranchisement.
>
> Perhaps the proposal of disfranchisement was discarded due to strong
> opposition from serious members like MKR. There is nothing wrong in his
> telling about dangers of disenfranchisement again and again. And if a person
> does right thing, he should not care what others say.
>
> Best
>
> Anand Gholap
>
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, preethi muthiah <seeker_preethi@ ...>
> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > MKR,
>
> >
>
> > I would like to mention some things to you, which I think i remember
> mentioning before as well. Why don't you rout your questions and suggestions
> to Adyar and see if they will receive them?
>
> >
>
> > And respond in kind to you?
>
> >
>
> > Also, since you keep mentioning the "ultra secret attempt to
> disenfranchise the members from voting in a President", i need to bring it
> to your attention that this is no longer a secret -- partly thanks to your
> repeated mention of the topic, so using words like ultra secret are no
> longer viable; and sorry to say so, they make you look like a parrot or a
> tape recorder that has something wrong with it and got stuck on a part of
> the entire message, such that it keeps repeating the same phrase again and
> again and again.. Time to move forward don't you think? Sorry if i sound
> rude here, but i don't mean to. Why don't you see that attempt, even if it
> were the way you make it out to be, as a way to root out a Corrupt and
> Political President from her chair so that there can be a healthy and
> spiritual future for Adyar and the TS worldwide?
>
> >
>
> > And MKR, i might have mentioned this earlier, but even if i haven't done
> so, i do now. Everyone in the GC, especially has a right to propose
> something they think is helpful to ease a situation. The situation at Adyar
> is deplorable. You might want to just look at the horrible things like
> plagiarism, corruption, gossip, scandal, and such pervading the atmosphere
> at Adyar today to know that any proposal to make a change ought to be
> welcomed, considered and, as in the case of the ultra secret attempt
> discarded as being non-viable. Have you, instead of harping on and on about
> that attempt, a viable proposal to make about how to deal with the
> deplorable materialistic situation at Adyar and the TS worldwide? If you do,
> do please mention it here and in other sites of the TS for General
> Secretaries to consider as possible solutions to save Adyar and the TS
> worldwide.
>
> >
>
> > I think that would be a very good thing to do, MKR, seriously. Why don't
> you use your verbal talents to finding and proposing healthy solutions
> rather than picking on proposals that have been considered and discarded
> already?
>
> >
>
> > Fraternally,
>
> >
>
> > Preethi
>
> >
>
> > --- On Tue, 21/7/09, MKR <mkr777@...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > From: MKR <mkr777@...>
>
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: DR. C V Agrawal
>
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>
> > Date: Tuesday, 21 July, 2009, 11:03 AM
>
> >
>
> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
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> > That is interesting and it is indeed very very sad.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I did not know that is how things are done in Adyar. When was the policy
>
> >
>
> > started? It would be interesting for historians to find out.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > When an important key international officer of TS and especially someone
> who
>
> >
>
> > was a dedicated long term member passes away, I think it is a basic
> courtesy
>
> >
>
> > to let the world know about it, not weeks or months after the event in
> this
>
> >
>
> > Internet age. Also, in this part of the world no one reads the Adyar
>
> >
>
> > Newsletter. Today such notifications can be done for free.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Death of a dedicated member should not be taken as a simple routine event
> in
>
> >
>
> > anyone's life. To get a true perspective, all one has to do is to read
> the
>
> >
>
> > early theosophical history.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > When Olcott passed away, the Inner Founders took the unusual step of
>
> >
>
> > personally showing up at his death bed to convey their gratitude for the
>
> >
>
> > dedication and hard work he did for the theosophical movement. This has
> to
>
> >
>
> > be viewed in the light of the fact that after the 1900 letter, we have
> never
>
> >
>
> > heard from any of them till today.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > In today's world, with Internet, information can be distributed at no
> cost
>
> >
>
> > and also immediately. Is it not also in the best interests of the TS for
>
> >
>
> > keeping members updated on all important events taking place in Adyar and
>
> >
>
> > other National Centers? Such frequent contact with members will foster to
>
> >
>
> > bring members together. It is the disconnect and secrecy of operations
> that
>
> >
>
> > led to the problems starting with last year's election and the followup.
>
> >
>
> > This environment is not helpful for the health and future of the TS.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Everyone on this list knows that if Internet was not there, we will today
>
> >
>
> > have a very different TS especially after the last GC meeting where the
>
> >
>
> > Ultra Secret disenfranchisement move would have been approved and
>
> >
>
> > implemented with some of the GC members seizing the TS presidency. Let us
> be
>
> >
>
> > grateful for the Internet for its role in protecting TS and let us make
> use
>
> >
>
> > of it in establishing and maintaining continuous contact with members
> around
>
> >
>
> > the world.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The incident of not quickly reporting the death of Dr. Agarwal is a black
>
> >
>
> > eye which will not be forgotten by many members for a long time to come.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > MKR aka Messenger
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > visit www.theosophy. net
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:56 PM, preethi muthiah
>
> >
>
> > <seeker_preethi@ yahoo.com>wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > >
>
> >
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> > > MKR,
>
> >
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> > >
>
> >
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> > > We generally don't report such things as death etc. on the local
>
> >
>
> > > Newspapers.. I guess there will be a writeup about Dr Agarwal in the
> next
>
> >
>
> > > issue of the Adyar Newsletter, whenever that is due and manages to come
> out.
>
> >
>
> > > Helen Jamieson has quite a job getting it out, but of course now she
> has
>
> >
>
> > > all-knowing Pedro Oliveira to help her out. So i guess you can wait for
> the
>
> >
>
> > > ANL issue.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Preethi
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > --- On Mon, 20/7/09, MKR <mkr777@gmail. com <mkr777%40gmail. com>>
> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > From: MKR <mkr777@gmail. com <mkr777%40gmail. com>>
>
> >
>
> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: DR. C V Agrawal
>
> >
>
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com <theos-talk% 40yahoogroups. com>
>
> >
>
> > > Date: Monday, 20 July, 2009, 7:13 AM
>
> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > >
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> > >
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> > >
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> > > I have just posted a news item both here and at www.theosophy. net. In
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > India, both spellings of Agarwal is interchangeable as you can find in
> wiki
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > and that is how his name got spelled differently by me. In the Adyar
>
> >
>
> > > website
>
> >
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> > >
>
> >
>
> > > his name is still shown as the Secretary. If a newsrelease had been
> issued
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > by TS, the local media would have reported it. I did not find any in
>
> >
>
> > > chennai
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > when I googled the leading local daily newspaper.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > MKR aka Messenger
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > www.theosophy. net
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > n Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 2:20 PM, sampsakuukasjarvi <
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > sampsakuukasjarvi@ yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > >
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> > >
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> > > >
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> > >
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> > > >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > Agarwal, not Agrawal. This is sad news. He was International
> Secretary
>
> >
>
> > > for
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > only a few months, since March, after Keith Fisher. Now I notice that
> his
>
> >
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> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > name doesn't appear as International Secretary in the latest issue of
> the
>
> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > Theosophist; there doesn't appear any name.
>
> >
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> > >
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> > > >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > How is it possible that the Adyar headquarters doesn't announce this
> kind
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > of event? In the International Board of the Theosophical Society
> (Adyar),
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > International Secretary belongs to the four most important members..
> There
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > still is not even a news section on the Adyar web site!
>
> >
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> > >
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> > > >
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> > > > MKR: I don't see any news on this on www.theosophy. net.
>
> >
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> > >
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> > > >
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> > >
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> > > > Sampsa
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> > >
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> > > >
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> > >
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> >
>
> > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com <theos-talk% 40yahoogroups. com>,
> MKR
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > <mkr777@> wrote:
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> > > > > I just learnt that Dr. C V Agrawal, a long time theosophist
> recently
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > passed
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > away. He was a very dedicated member and was the General Secretary
> of
>
> >
>
> > > the
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > Indian Section for several years. After retirement as a Professor
> in
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > Varanasi, he settled down at Adyar and continued to work for TS
> till he
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > passed away. Most recently he was the International Secretary. All
> of
>
> >
>
> > > us
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > should be grateful for his long and dedicated service to theosophy
> and
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > > Theosophical Society.
>
> >
>
> > >
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> >
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> > > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > > MKR
>
> >
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> > >
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> > > > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
>
> > > > > Visit www.theosophy. net
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> >
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> > > > >
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> > > See the Web&#39;s breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check
> out
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> > > Yahoo! Buzz. http://in.buzz. yahoo.com/
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> > Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to the new and safer Internet Explorer
> 8. http://downloads. yahoo.com/ in/internetexplo rer/
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> Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to the new and safer Internet Explorer
> 8. http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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>  
>


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