Theos-Talk Archives (July 2009 Message tt00220)

....Maya is an illusion - we now have grounds for delusional illusion!!!

Cass


>
>From: "Drpsionic@aol.com" <Drpsionic@aol.com>
>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Sunday, 12 July, 2009 7:40:06 AM
>Subject: Re: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual
>
>
>
>
>
>Free will is an illusion of Maya.
>
>Chuck the Heretic
>
>
>In a message dated 7/11/2009 4:23:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
>Mvandertak@yahoo. com writes:
>
>So you force nature to work on them? No free will/choice?
>
>--- On Sat, 7/11/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <_global-theosophy@ global-thgl_ 
>(mailto:global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk) > wrote:
>
>From: Morten Nymann Olesen <_global-theosophy@ global-thgl_ 
>(mailto:global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk) >
>Subject: Re: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual
>To: _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com) 
>Date: Saturday, July 11, 2009, 9:50 PM
>
>Through Extra Sensory Perception.
>Thoughts are after all not dependant on physical activities.
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Martin 
>To: _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com) 
>Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 7:00 PM
>Subject: Re: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual
>
>How are you ever gonna teach them anything then?
>
>--- On Sat, 7/11/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <_global-theosophy@ global-thgl_ 
>(mailto:global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk) > wrote:
>
>From: Morten Nymann Olesen <_global-theosophy@ global-thgl_ 
>(mailto:global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk) >
>Subject: Re: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual
>To: _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com) 
>Date: Saturday, July 11, 2009, 1:04 PM
>
>The same as the fact that talking or writing is performed on a lower level 
>than thinking.
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Martin 
>To: _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com) 
>Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 12:47 PM
>Subject: Re: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual
>
>So people are healing the lepers in their heads then? Whats wrong with 
>being physically present?
>
>--- On Sat, 7/11/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <_global-theosophy@ global-thgl_ 
>(mailto:global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk) > wrote:
>
>From: Morten Nymann Olesen <_global-theosophy@ global-thgl_ 
>(mailto:global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk) >
>Subject: Re: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual
>To: _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com) 
>Date: Saturday, July 11, 2009, 12:04 PM
>
>Chuck said:
>"I'm saying we need to get away from the notion of teachers as 
>identifiable 
>agents altogether."
>
>Yes, when they are used as a publicity-stunt.
>Idries Shah has told clearly about it:
>_http://www.katinkah http://wwhttp: //wwhttp: //wwwhttp_ 
>(http://www.katinkah esselink. net/sufi/ sufi-shah. html) 
>
>The truth Guru's which are not physically known can be and are important. 
>Most New Age Guru's and even present day theosophical lecturers are only 
>average human beings, maybe bookworms or cunning orators and nothing else.
>A tree is known on its fruits, and not on how cunning it is in cheating 
>people to believe that throwing money away is a good idea or that emotional 
>excitement is the spiritual highest.
>
>- - - - - - -
>
>Idries Shah said:
>"I believe that the guru needs his disciples. If he had a sufficient 
>outlet for his desire to be a big shot or his feeling of holiness or his wish to 
>have others dependent on him, he wouldn't be a guru. 
>
>I got all that out of my system very early and, consistent with Sufi 
>[theosophical] tradition, I believe that those who don't want to teach are the 
>ones who can and should. The West still has a vocation hang-up and has not 
>yet discovered this. Here, the only recognized achiever is an obsessive. In 
>the East we believe that a person who can't help doing a thing isn't 
>necessarily the best one to do it. A compulsive cookie baker may bake very bad 
>cookies. "
>......
>"Their followers need the guru as much as the guru needs his followers. I 
>just don't regard it as a religious operation. I take a guru to be a sort 
>of psychotherapist. At the very best, he keeps people quiet and polarized 
>around him and gives some sort of meaning to their lives."
>......
>"Why shouldn't there be room for what we might call "neighborhood 
>psychotherapy" - the community looking after its own? However, why it should be 
>called a spiritual activity rather baffles me."
>.......
>"Some are frankly phonies, and they don't try to hide it from me. They 
>think that I am one, too, so when we meet they begin the most disturbing 
>conversations. They want to know how I get money, how I control people, and so 
>on."
>......
>"They actually feel there is something wrong with what they are doing, and 
>they feel better if they talk to somebody else who is doing it. I always 
>tell them that I think it would be much better if they gave up the guru role 
>in their own minds and realize that they are providing a perfectly good 
>social service."
>
>- - -
>The question is if the above words are what the beginners at TS Adyar or 
>other theosophical groups are greeted with???
>
>M. Sufilight
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: _Drpsionic@aol. Drp_ (mailto:Drpsionic@aol. com) 
>To: _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com) 
>Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 8:40 AM
>Subject: Re: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual
>
>Hmmm, let's see. Ghandi never faced a real opponent, Stalin would have 
>had him for lunch and Mother Theresa was a ghoul who fed off the energies 
>of 
>the dying. I don't know what they were teaching but it ain't anything I 
>would want to learn.
>
>I'm saying we need to get away from the notion of teachers as identifiable 
>
>agents altogether.
>
>Chuck the Heretic
>
>In a message dated 7/10/2009 10:22:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
>_silva_cass@ yahoo.sil_ (mailto:silva_cass@yahoo. com) writes:
>
>So you are saying that World Teachers are known by their actions rather 
>than their words? If this is the case one could argue that Gandhi and 
>Mother 
>Theresa were world teachers.
>
>I suppose one can walk with world teachers or one can walk behind them. 
>A spiritual evolved soul is probably on the way to being his/her own world 
>teacher.
>
>Cass
>
>>
>>From: "__Drpsionic@ aol._Dr_ (mailto:_Drpsionic@aol. Drp) _ 
>(mailto:_Drpsionic@aol. Drp_ (mailto:Drpsionic@aol. com) ) " 
><__Drpsionic@ aol._Dr_ (mailto:_Drpsionic@aol. Drp) _ 
>(mailto:_Drpsionic@aol. Drp_ (mailto:Drpsionic@aol. com) ) >
>>To: _theos-talk@ To: _theos-talTo: _theos-_theos- talk@yahoogrothe os-t_ 
>(mailto:theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com) ) 
>>Sent: Friday, 10 July, 2009 2:48:56 PM
>>Subject: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Ok. The World Teacher thing is fun but the truth is that Theosophist have 
>>been flying the wrong carpet on it since the idea floated out of Annie 
>and 
>>the Bishop's hats. 
>>
>>First, there really has never been an identifiable person who could be 
>>considered a "World Teacher" who had any serious impact in his lifetime. 
>The 
>>Buddha was just another local nutcase and Jesus got himself killed. So 
>>this business about finding out who the next "World Teacher" was going to 
>be 
>>makes about as much sense as trying to find out who will be the next 
>Michael 
>>Jackson (in the hope of aborting him before he can appear) and all the 
>fuss 
>>over whether it was Krishnamurti or Aleister Crowley or even L. Ron 
>>Hubbard is missing the point.
>>
>>We can ignore crooks like Sai Baba Booey and crazy old Ben Creme for the 
>>moment.
>>
>>If there were to be a world teacher, that individual would not have to 
>>appear in public at all. He could be totally obscure, sitting in his 
>living 
>>room, watching reruns of old game shows on cable, an putting the 
>information 
>>directly into the minds of the people prepared to receive it without them 
>>even knowing that he exists or that the information, the ideas as it 
>were, 
>>came from any source other than their own minds. The techniques are 
>>certainly simple enough. Anyone can master them in a few days. Which is 
>why the 
>>dugpa stuff is so silly. There is nothing they can do that anyone else 
>>cannot do and probably are.
>>
>>It is obvious that the idea of a World Teacher, wandering the earth 
>>spreading teaching to the hungry masses is a simple failure to understand 
>how 
>>information can be spread. It is from a mindset locked into archaic and 
>>fundamentally clumsy means of communication, voice, the written word, 
>personal 
>>appearance, even video. There is no need for any of that and one wonders 
>>why those called masters of the wisdom, who frankly do not, in 
>retrospect, 
>>seem to have been masters of much of anything but falling off their 
>flying 
>>carpets, would not have realized that. 
>>
>>The search is a waste of time and energy. If there really is a world 
>>teacher running around loose somewhere, he has no need to be found, no 
>desire to 
>>be public. That would just get in the way and be a distraction.
>>
>>It is time to face reality and forget all the nonsense that has been 
>>written in the past by people who either did not know what they were 
>talking 
>>about or who had a vested interest in public ignorance.
>>
>>Chuck the heretic
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