Theos-Talk Archives (July 2009 Message tt00200)

How are you ever gonna teach them anything then?

--- On Sat, 7/11/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk> wrote:

From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk>
Subject: Re: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, July 11, 2009, 1:04 PM

The same as the fact that talking or writing is performed on a lower level than thinking.


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Martin 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 12:47 PM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual





  So people are healing the lepers in their heads then? Whats wrong with being physically present?

  --- On Sat, 7/11/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk> wrote:

  From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk>
  Subject: Re: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
  Date: Saturday, July 11, 2009, 12:04 PM

  Chuck said:
  "I'm saying we need to get away from the notion of teachers as identifiable 
  agents altogether."

  Yes, when they are used as a publicity-stunt.
  Idries Shah has told clearly about it:
  http://www.katinkahesselink.net/sufi/sufi-shah.html

  The truth Guru's which are not physically known can be and are important. Most New Age Guru's and even present day theosophical lecturers are only average human beings, maybe bookworms or cunning orators and nothing else.
  A tree is known on its fruits, and not on how cunning it is in cheating people to believe that throwing money away is a good idea or that emotional excitement is the spiritual highest.

  - - - - - - -

  Idries Shah said:
  "I believe that the guru needs his disciples. If he had a sufficient outlet for his desire to be a big shot or his feeling of holiness or his wish to have others dependent on him, he wouldn't be a guru. 

  I got all that out of my system very early and, consistent with Sufi [theosophical] tradition, I believe that those who don't want to teach are the ones who can and should. The West still has a vocation hang-up and has not yet discovered this. Here, the only recognized achiever is an obsessive. In the East we believe that a person who can't help doing a thing isn't necessarily the best one to do it. A compulsive cookie baker may bake very bad cookies. "
  ......
  "Their followers need the guru as much as the guru needs his followers. I just don't regard it as a religious operation. I take a guru to be a sort of psychotherapist. At the very best, he keeps people quiet and polarized around him and gives some sort of meaning to their lives."
  ......
  "Why shouldn't there be room for what we might call "neighborhood psychotherapy" - the community looking after its own? However, why it should be called a spiritual activity rather baffles me."
  .......
  "Some are frankly phonies, and they don't try to hide it from me. They think that I am one, too, so when we meet they begin the most disturbing conversations. They want to know how I get money, how I control people, and so on."
  ......
  "They actually feel there is something wrong with what they are doing, and they feel better if they talk to somebody else who is doing it. I always tell them that I think it would be much better if they gave up the guru role in their own minds and realize that they are providing a perfectly good social service."

  - - -
  The question is if the above words are what the beginners at TS Adyar or other theosophical groups are greeted with???

  M. Sufilight

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Drpsionic@aol.com 
    To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
    Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 8:40 AM
    Subject: Re: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual

    Hmmm, let's see. Ghandi never faced a real opponent, Stalin would have 
    had him for lunch and Mother Theresa was a ghoul who fed off the energies of 
    the dying. I don't know what they were teaching but it ain't anything I 
    would want to learn.

    I'm saying we need to get away from the notion of teachers as identifiable 
    agents altogether.

    Chuck the Heretic

    In a message dated 7/10/2009 10:22:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
    silva_cass@yahoo.com writes:

    So you are saying that World Teachers are known by their actions rather 
    than their words? If this is the case one could argue that Gandhi and Mother 
    Theresa were world teachers.

    I suppose one can walk with world teachers or one can walk behind them. 
    A spiritual evolved soul is probably on the way to being his/her own world 
    teacher.

    Cass

    >
    >From: "_Drpsionic@aol.Drp_ (mailto:Drpsionic@aol.com) " 
    <_Drpsionic@aol.Drp_ (mailto:Drpsionic@aol.com) >
    >To: _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) 
    >Sent: Friday, 10 July, 2009 2:48:56 PM
    >Subject: Theos-World Barking up the wrong tree, as usual
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >Ok. The World Teacher thing is fun but the truth is that Theosophist have 
    >been flying the wrong carpet on it since the idea floated out of Annie 
    and 
    >the Bishop's hats. 
    >
    >First, there really has never been an identifiable person who could be 
    >considered a "World Teacher" who had any serious impact in his lifetime. 
    The 
    >Buddha was just another local nutcase and Jesus got himself killed. So 
    >this business about finding out who the next "World Teacher" was going to 
    be 
    >makes about as much sense as trying to find out who will be the next 
    Michael 
    >Jackson (in the hope of aborting him before he can appear) and all the 
    fuss 
    >over whether it was Krishnamurti or Aleister Crowley or even L. Ron 
    >Hubbard is missing the point.
    >
    >We can ignore crooks like Sai Baba Booey and crazy old Ben Creme for the 
    >moment.
    >
    >If there were to be a world teacher, that individual would not have to 
    >appear in public at all. He could be totally obscure, sitting in his 
    living 
    >room, watching reruns of old game shows on cable, an putting the 
    information 
    >directly into the minds of the people prepared to receive it without them 
    >even knowing that he exists or that the information, the ideas as it 
    were, 
    >came from any source other than their own minds. The techniques are 
    >certainly simple enough. Anyone can master them in a few days. Which is 
    why the 
    >dugpa stuff is so silly. There is nothing they can do that anyone else 
    >cannot do and probably are.
    >
    >It is obvious that the idea of a World Teacher, wandering the earth 
    >spreading teaching to the hungry masses is a simple failure to understand 
    how 
    >information can be spread. It is from a mindset locked into archaic and 
    >fundamentally clumsy means of communication, voice, the written word, 
    personal 
    >appearance, even video. There is no need for any of that and one wonders 
    >why those called masters of the wisdom, who frankly do not, in 
    retrospect, 
    >seem to have been masters of much of anything but falling off their 
    flying 
    >carpets, would not have realized that. 
    >
    >The search is a waste of time and energy. If there really is a world 
    >teacher running around loose somewhere, he has no need to be found, no 
    desire to 
    >be public. That would just get in the way and be a distraction.
    >
    >It is time to face reality and forget all the nonsense that has been 
    >written in the past by people who either did not know what they were 
    talking 
    >about or who had a vested interest in public ignorance.
    >
    >Chuck the heretic
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