Theos-Talk Archives (July 2009 Message tt00062)

Certainly, no one wants to be preached at, I suspect the president of a
Society less so than anyone.  However, didn't HPB play that role to some
extent?

HPB was always involved in publishing a magazine of some sort.  She was
the ever vigilant press that could not be bought off by anyone.  I
suspect Olcott knew this and was always careful, not that he needed much
watching, he was a naturally honest man by nature.  However, when he
left Richard Harte in charge of The Theosophist, and Harte wrote and
published material concerning the ES and possible political
machinations, Blavatsky fired back with her article "A Puzzle From Adyar
<http://theosophy.org/Blavatsky/Articles/PuzzleFromAdyar.htm>  ".

It might be useful to the discussion as a whole as HPB seems to be
dealing with many of the issues we are dealing with in Theos-Talk right
now.  She writes:

    1st. That the E. S. had never any pretensions to "boss the T. S."
stands to reason: with the exception of Col. Olcott, the President, the
Esoteric Section has nothing whatever to do with the Theosophical
Society, its Council or officers. It is a Section entirely apart from
the exoteric body, and independent of it, H.P.B. alone being responsible
for its members, as shown in the official announcement over the
signature of the President Founder himself. It follows, therefore, that
the E. S., as a body, owes no allegiance whatever to the Theosophical
Society, as a Society, least of all to Adyar.
     2nd. It is pure nonsense to say that "H.P.B. . . . is loyal to the
Theosophical Society and to Adyar"(!?). H.P.B. is loyal to death to the
Theosophical CAUSE, and those great Teachers whose philosophy can alone
bind the whole of Humanity into one Brotherhood. Together with Col.
Olcott, she is the chief Founder and Builder of the Society which was
and is meant to represent that CAUSE; and if she is so loyal to H. S.
Olcott, it is not at all because of his being its "President," but,
firstly, because there is no man living who has worked harder for that
Society, or been more devoted to it than the Colonel, and, secondly,
because she regards him as a loyal friend and co-worker. Therefore the
degree of her sympathies with the "Theosophical Society and Adyar"
depends upon the degree of the loyalty of that Society to the CAUSE. Let
it break away from the original lines and show disloyalty in its policy
to the CAUSE and the original programme of the Society, and H.P.B.,
calling the T. S. disloyal, will shake it off like dust from her feet.

     And what does "loyalty to Adyar" mean, in the name of all wonders?
What is Adyar, apart from that CAUSE and the two (not one Founder, if
you please) who represent it? Why not loyal to the compound or the
bath-room of Adyar? Adyar is the present Headquarters of the Society,
because these "Headquarters are wherever the President is," as stated in
the rules. To be logical, the Fellows of the T. S. had to be loyal to
Japan while Col. Olcott was there, and to London during his presence
here. There is no longer a "Parent Society"; it is abolished and
replaced by an aggregate body of Theosophical Societies, all autonomous,
as are the States of America, and all under one Head President, who,
together with H. P. Blavatsky, will champion the CAUSE against the whole
world. Such is the real state of things.

HPB reminds readers of Lucifer of many things they might not have
considered if there was not a vigilant voice for Theosophy that was not
in control of the President of the Society.



--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva <silva_cass@...> wrote:
>
> Robert, don't you think that a true theosophist is his own moral
compass and as such requires no leadership?
>
> Cass
>
>
> >
> >From: robert_b_macd robert.b.macdonald@...
> >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> >Sent: Tuesday, 7 July, 2009 11:03:38 AM
> >Subject: Theos-World Re: Synthesizing Organizatonal Discussion 2
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Anand, I think the question you ask requires us to bring all our
knowledge of theosophy to focus on this subject. What I am thinking of
is the two pillars, mercy and justice, moral and legal, the heart and
the lower mind. Always two - do we take the correspondence further and
claim a Society such as theosophy needs 2 leaders, a moral leader and a
legal leader? This is what I am asking.
> >
> >I agree that we do not need an ES that demands obedience. Take that
clause out all together. You are now left with no obedience "without
cavil or delay". In this type of a School where the student practices
morality according to theosophical doctrines, we don't have to call it
an ES, but rather a school of practical theosophy, so in this type of
school can moral attributes be developed that would be of benefit to the
Society? Can we help to develop strong moral leadership. Is this not the
complaint we have about our current leadership? Has this whole debate
not stemmed from a concern over the integrity of that leadership?
Clearly, what we are currently doing is not the answer. How do we change
it? Maybe this is not the answer, if not how do we address morality in a
Society that is all about morality?
> >
> >Robert Bruce
> >
> >--- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Anand" <AnandGholap@ ...> wrote:
> >>
> >> It is true that organization helps individuals students of
Theosophy. I am thinking whether ES objects can be achieved through TS,
which is an organization.
> >> While TS gives freedom of thought and implied freedom of action, ES
demands obedience "without cavil or delay". While TS does not impose any
ideas on members, ES demands faith in the Outer Head and faith in all
actions, policies and ideas of that ES head. Aren't these contradictory?
> >>
> >>
> >> --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "robert_b_macd"
<robert.b.macdonald @> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Dear Anand,
> >> >
> >> > Again your points are well taken. I don't deny that all this can
be done by a serious student with the help of others. I would encourage
such a course for those with the ability and inclination to do so.
> >> >
> >> > What my point in looking at this is to discuss whether the
Society should have a legal power and a moral power. Could such a power
arrangement reduce some of the abuse of power that some seem to think
now exists.
> >> >
> >> > Organizations come into existence to help those wishing to do a
certain kind of work, the organization gives structure to that work.
Without the structure it is difficult to get things done. Self culture
is also difficult as oftentimes we do not have the appropriate habbits
when we enter into such an endeavour. What do we do next? What is
important and what is not? I feel tired today, can I take the day off?
This is where an organization helps. The ES should be trying to help
people make themselves into moral adepts, the organization of the ES
should simply be a tool for these people.
> >> >
> >> > Robert Bruce
> >> >
> >> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Anand" <AnandGholap@ >
wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "robert_b_macd"
<robert.b.macdonald @> wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > The ES would be a body of students who want to study the
doctrine of the founders at a deeper level and who want to put the moral
aspect of those teachings, as detailed in the pledge, into practice. It
would be a life-long study. I think that all members should be members
of the TS and the ES >should have no official standing with the TS.
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > > For the deep study of Theosophy and putting in practice moral
aspect, you don't need the Esoteric School. Members of TS, whoever want,
can do it. If anybody wants consultation, he can always ask questions to
any serious members or officers in TS lodge. There is no need of
separate ES for this purpose.
> >> > > If somebody wants to make a pledge to follow Masters or to work
for Theosophy, he can do it in his own heart or write on paper and keep
that paper with himself.
> >> > >
> >> > > Please tell your e-mail address. I had sent e-mail to you,
which perhaps you did not get.
> >> > > Best
> >> > > Anand Gholap
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>      
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