Theos-Talk Archives (June 2009 Message tt00537)

Dear Erica,

Well, then perhaps you must ask the President why it is she initiated this gossip, when you can prove things to the contrary. Perhaps at that time Mrs Burnier was not aware that someone will stand up against her and unsheath her with the sword of Truth, which unfortunately most TS members worldwide today have not the ability to face. The truth of the contrariness and contradiction of their thoughts, words and deeds.

Please permit me to correct you on something else Erica. You are not the Secretary of the Greek Section. You are only the secretary to the General Secretary of the Greek Section of the TS. They are two different things, you know?

It is more important to be a true human being than to be a secretary or whatever other post, position or authority you flaunt around, say, for example, to ask for a separate room during the busy Convention time for you and your husband to be housed in at Leadbeater Chambers; or for that matter, to ask for a rate reduction at Leadbeater Chambers so that you can go and buy a sari worth Rs 2000/- to deliver a lecture at the Convention. Being a true human, one doesn't feel even the need to clothe oneself with posts, power, positions, authority. And that is why a true human being is always in touch with Life. Remember, Erica, you cannot cheat Life. You may refute the examples given here of the nature of your commitment to the TS, and cheat some people; but you cannot cheat Life. It is something Mrs Burnier forgot and has done many wrongs -- continues to do so in fact...This that is happening is a foretaste of many more things to come.

And the only authority upon which I speak is the authority of the Truth, of Life.

Fraternal greetings

Preethi

--- On Tue, 23/6/09, Erica L. Georgiades <eletzerich@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Erica L. Georgiades <eletzerich@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Anand's stand and the election
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, 23 June, 2009, 8:55 PM











    
            
            


      
      Dear Preety,



You say:



"Scene 3: Year 2007: Mrs Erica Georgiades arrived at Adyar after a gap

of several years to attend the Convention. After a few days of her

arrival, she comes into the office of Leadbeater Chambers to announce

that she is going to be speaking during the interntional Convention in

one of the symposiums. A couple of days after this announcement, I am

told that she wangled this privilege from the President by haranguing

the President for nearly 1-1/2 hours. How do I know this information?

President tells this to Uma Nilakanta, Radha Muthiah, and some others,

who then relate it to me and others as well, because all are surprised

to see that a young member of the TS is going to speak at the

international Convention, knowing fully well that the President does

not give that privilege to youngsters, and had not given that to even

knowledgeable young speakers like Dr Pablo Sender."



I really doubt this information. As I went to the International Convention of 2007 representing the Greek Section, and in the position of secretary of the same. My lecture during the International Convention was closed more than one month before my arrival in Adyar. So I wonder how from Greece I could seat more than one and half hour with Radhaji to ask for a lecture. I have all the correspondence related to the fact in the archives of the T.S.. in Greece. 



Best wishes,



Erica



____________ _________ _________ __

From: preethi muthiah <seeker_preethi@ yahoo.com>

To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com

Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:54:21 AM

Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Anand's stand and the election



Dear MKR,



I am a bit concerned with the way you keep repeating that the attempt to disenfranchise the members of the TS to vote in an election for the President was done in order to make the President a puppet in the hands of the General Council. I understand that since you have never visited Adyar you (as many others who read and participate in this online discussion group) would not know that we do have a puppet as the President. Since she has not developed the faculty of discriminating for herself the strengths and weaknesses of all those who work directly under her, either at Adyar or as General and Federation Secretaries, most times what does happen is that she "believes" the version of the First Person who reports his/her version of an event to her. For Your Information and that of many others, I will describe some typical scenes that happen daily at the President's Office:



Scene 1: Year 2000. A typesetting error occurs in a book newly brought out by the TPH, Adyar. Typesetter at that time is Mrs Ranjini and in-charge of typesetting section is Ms Elvira Carbonell. Sushama Sreenath (who is now Sushama Webber and lives in New Zealand and is additionally what you would call a "nth generation Theosophist" ) goes to the President to show the artwork for the cover of a book. Mrs Burnier mentions the error to her. Sushama says she doesn't know anything about it and blames it on Mr G. Naganathan. Mrs Burnier does not clarify it with Mr Naganathan who is assistant Editor for the Theosophist, but also edits books and other publications of the TPH. RSB instead asks her niece Subha Nilakanta for clarification and mentions that Sushama thinks it is the responsibility of Mr Naganathan. Ms Nilakanta agrees with Sushama, knowing fully well that Mr Naganathan is not involved with the typesetting section. Then the President calls Mr

Naganathan and blames him without giving him an opportunity to even defend himself, which defence basically includes the fact that he is not at all involved in the typesetting part of book publishing. He, as a fellow human and a committed Theosophist and worker at Adyar has no right to defend his name. Mrs Burnier gives no one that right. She is President authority and blames as she feels.



Scene 2: Year 2001: The Theosophist, Issue June 2001. A chance diacritical wrongly appears on a Sanskrit word. Mrs Burnier asks Subha Nilakanta instead of Mr C.S. Raghavan who has taken up the post of Officer-in-Charge of the Editorial Office after Mr G. Naganathan quit the office in 2000 due to the incident mentioned above. Subha Nilakanta without asking Mr Raghavan or clarifying at the Office, mentions Preethi Muthiah's name. Mrs Burnier blames Preethi Muthiah who works there as a Proof Reader. Mrs Ranjini who is the typesetter for the Theosophist goes to Subha Nilakanta and tells her that it is not Preethi's fault but her own. Subha chooses not to inform the President about this. Mrs Burnier in addition initiates gossip in which she tells workers at Adyar that "Preethi thinks she knows Sanskrit but she does not". Preethi on hearing she is blamed and gossiped about decides to quit.. Venkatesh who works at the Library and helps out with computer

problems at the Editorial Office and other departments at Adyar decides to look into the matter and is told by Mrs Ranjini that it was her fault and not Preethi's and that she had already informed Subha Nilakanta about this. Venkatesh goes to RSB with that knowledge and information. RSB refuses to apologize to Preethi, and in subsequent years, she keeps that bit of gossip and her version of the incident alive. I hear these days she tells people (like Pedro Oliveira) that Preethi (which is myself) left the Editorial Office in 2001 because she was criticized and could not take it.



Scene 3: Year 2007: Mrs Erica Georgiades arrived at Adyar after a gap of several years to attend the Convention. After a few days of her arrival, she comes into the office of Leadbeater Chambers to announce that she is going to be speaking during the interntional Convention in one of the symposiums. A couple of days after this announcement, I am told that she wangled this privilege from the President by haranguing the President for nearly 1-1/2 hours. How do I know this information? President tells this to Uma Nilakanta, Radha Muthiah, and some others, who then relate it to me and others as well, because all are surprised to see that a young member of the TS is going to speak at the international Convention, knowing fully well that the President does not give that privilege to youngsters, and had not given that to even knowledgeable young speakers like Dr Pablo Sender. The only other youngster to my knowledge who has had that privilege would be Pedro

Oliveira, another Brazilian.



Scene 4: Over the years from mid-1998 to mid-2000: Preethi goes to meet the President on official work. She asks Preethi how she is enjoying her work at the Editorial Office. Preethi generally tends to say she is enjoying her work. But the divisive-intentione d President tells Preethi that Sushama (who used to come on-and-off to offer the artistic skills for book-designing and cover art) told the President that Preethi is temperamental (which i was at that time) and not a easy to work with (for Sushama i would not be easy to work with as I am conscientious and diligent and in those days was also the immature person who questioned Sushama'a habitual latecoming to work).. But Preethi says nothing except to shed tears of hurt and try to defend my name. I become aware by talking to others that when Sushama goes to the President's Office, she is told by the President that Preethi has spoken ill of her, while all i did was to shed tears and try and defend

myself.



It took me 5 years to become immune to the effects of Mrs Burnier's gossiping tendencies, but there are many others in the TS till now who believe her version of each other, and are reacting against each other without cause. This is the way the President keeps us divided, turning us against each other.



And since we were talking about the President's becoming a puppet in the hands of the General Council, we might want to ask the further question of why are those who opposed the move -- I oppose it because I know that disenfranchising members from voting in a President amounts to taking away the freedom of members to choose a President -- opposing it? At the moment, the President is a puppet in the hands of Pedro Oliveira, Helen Jamieson, Keshwar Dastur, Radha Muthiah, Uma Nilakanta, Nandan Nilakanta, Subha Nilakanta, S.. Ramu, Dr A. Kannan, N. Muthuswamy, S. Ravindran, Shailendra Agrawal, S. Harihara Raghavan, Radha Harihara Raghavan, Breda and Dusan Zagar, Ricardo Lindemann, Marcos Resende, etc.. All of these people mentioned can twist the President according to their whim and fancy. It is quite common at Adyar, for example, for one to see that those who do not impress Mrs Uma Nilakanta, for example, will find that the next time they ask for permission

to reside at Leadbeater Chambers, they will be refused that permission; not because they did something wrong -- which wrong can be corrected with compassion and understanding -- but solely because Uma Nilakanta did not like a person's face, or perhaps he/she did not give Uma Nilakanta the ego boost she needed. This is the case with most office-bearers at Adyar...and perhaps worldwide.



So as far as puppet-Presidents are concerned, we now need to think, perhaps, which part of the General Council ought to have a say in what the President will do....those who have only vested interests in holding positions of power and authority, or those who have through their lifetime of work and diligence for the TS, shown that in addition to the vested interest, they also have an interest in the continuance of the TS as at least resembling the TS our Founders incepted...and have from time to time opposed the policies of the President when they thought that these policies would harm the future of Adyar and the TS worldwide.



Fraternal greetings



Preethi



--- On Mon, 22/6/09, MKR <mkr777@gmail. com> wrote:



From: MKR <mkr777@gmail. com>

Subject: Theos-World Re: Anand's stand and the election

To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com

Date: Monday, 22 June, 2009, 6:45 PM



Dear Anand:



-



I think that what we know of the election is just the tip of the iceberg and



we do not know all that went on behind the scenes. My hope is some day we



may have more complete information about who did what and when and why?



-



I have been following closely all your msgs since the start of the election



and you have been fair and helpful. Atleast you are posting msgs under your



name and not under a pseudonym or thru a front. For those who falsely



misunderstood your stand in the election, I suggest they read all your



messages in the theos-talk archive. When you speak truth, you need not be



concerned since you know in your heart of hearts that what you say is true.



-



All the discussions here started with the allegation about Radhaâs health -



and that too laymanâs opinions that was shot down by professional opinions.



The pity is that none of the leaders really foresaw the need to find and



develop young leaders. As I have stated several times, every upcoming and



growing organization are  always lead by young or middle aged persons and



not septuagenarians or octogenarians. My hope is that the electioneering and



subsequent end-run secret attempt to disenfranchise all of us and seize



control of appointment of the president, thus make the president a puppet is



a wake up call for everyone. This may not be the last such attempt.



-



I also hope that those who have operated for years behind the scenes and



kept members in the dark about the happenings understand how transparency is



urgently needed to prevent unnecessary secrecy causing more serious



problems, keeping in mind Master KHâs warning in his 1900 letter... It is not



easy to get out of the secrecy mindset, especially if you have operated in



that environment for too long.



-



Keep up the good work.



-



MKR



-



Visit www.thesophy. net and enjoy all the good stuff there.



-



On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 3:10 AM, Anand <AnandGholap@ gmail.com> wrote:



>



>



> Dear MKR,



> Transparency and such conditions greatly depend on the International



> President. As all offices like ES, masonry and TS Presidency are



> concentrated in Mrs. Burnier, she has considerable control over what happens



> in TS. Changes like transparency depend on her, to great extent. For many



> years no General Secretary dared to challenge or question Mrs. Burnier for



> the reasons Annie Besant mentioned and I elaborated further. It is only last



> year that John Algeo unexpectedly gave tough fight in Presidential election.



> Supporters of Mrs. Burnier won't like it. But such election actually is the



> sign that democracy exists to some extent. Suppose John Algeo had announced



> two years back that he would run for the Presient, would Mrs. Burnier



> appoint John as Vice-President? I don't think she would have. It appears



> that because he challenged her in Presidential election, he is not again



> selected for any office at international level.



>



> In this Presidential election I was neutral toward both the candidates...



> Somebody circulated wrong message that I supported John Algeo. That has made



> some officers in Adyar TS to go against me. I don't give a damn because they



> will be damned by karmic results of their own actions.



>



> Anand Gholap



>



> --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com <theos-talk% 40yahoogroups. com>, MKR



> <mkr777@...> wrote:



> >



> > How about Tsunami? Founders getting fed up with the bickering among



> > theosophists!



> > MKR



> >



> > On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 4:56 PM, <Drpsionic@. ..> wrote:



> >



> > >



> > >



> > > I'm beginning to think we would all be better off if Adyar fell into



> the



> > > bay and the sharks, who are not vegetarians, could deal with the



> problem.



> > >



> > > Chuck the Heretic



> > >



> > >



> > > In a message dated 6/21/2009 11:44:34 A.M. Central Daylight Time,



> > > seeker_preethi@ ... <seeker_preethi% 40yahoo.com> writes:



> > >



> > > Hi MKR,



> > >



> > > Not surprised, but only shall we say disappointed, because we are



> > > forgetting that the TS is meant to be a spiritual organization. Why



> speak



> > > such high



> > > philosophy when in the end one has to lead life in the same manner as



> > > those who do not speak it or have no knowledge of it? And why expect



> then



> > > that



> > > one must be treated any different when one behaves in a manner that is



> > > similar to the materialistic world around? Seems more like in the past



> few



> > > decades we have become more like the many religionists who hold on to



> empty



> > >



> > > words that don't translate into every day living. So then, perhaps, it



> is



> > > best



> > > to break the walls of Adyar and just continue to live with the world --



> > > which is not really bad at all -- as the world is. Why pretend to be



> one



> > > thing and then be something totally different?



> > >



> > > Just some thoughts.



> > >



> > > Preethi



> > >



> > > --- On Sun, 21/6/09, MKR <_mkr777@... <_mkr777%40gmail. mkr>_



> > > (mailto:mkr777@ ... <mkr777%40gmail. com>) >



> > > wrote:



> > >



> > > From: MKR <_mkr777@... <_mkr777%40gmail. mkr>_ (mailto:



> > > mkr777@... <mkr777%40gmail. com>) >



> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Adyar estate



> > > To: _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos- talk@yahoogro ups..com<theos- talk% 40yahoogroups. com>



> <theos-talk% 40yahoogroups. com>)



> > >



> > > Date: Sunday, 21 June, 2009, 1:51 AM



> > >



> > > No one should be surprised. Did not one of the Masters stated that



> human



> > > nature is the same whether in Adyar or in London. This just proves it.



> (At



> > > least two people were not fighting or killing each other!)



> > > ..



> > > MKR



> > > ..



> > >



> > > On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 2:58 AM, preethi muthiah



> > > <seeker_preethi@ yahoo.com>wrote:



> > >



> > > > Last year in fact we had a general secretary forget her nuptial vows



> and



> > > > commit adultery in her marriage.



> > > >



> > > >



> > >



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> > >



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