Theos-Talk Archives (June 2009 Message tt00250)

The voting in the last GC meeting confirmed the cleavage which many who were
following the events since early last year suspected. I believe that unless
and until the two groups forming the cleavage reconcile and start working in
real unity, the TS movement is not going to be helped. Such unity also
should be accompanied by transparency as well. Let us hope the leaders start
thinking about doing something quick and radical to change the current
situation instead of being focused on just rules change, which will not
bring about unity. We will have to wait and see what new developments come
up.

.
MKR



On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 5:43 AM, robertapimenta26 <
robertapimenta26@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I believe that one should also realize, in particular when we read the
> never ending criticisms of some of your participants on this site, that a
> body as the General Council clearly has not functioned as it should have,
> for decades. For as far as I understood it, and from what I was told by
> those who actually live at the estate, the actual day by day management of
> the grounds was, and is totally in the hands of the International President.
>
>
> All concerned, and there are sufficient reasons to be concerned should be
> aware of this, and start asking relevant questions. It is all about
> accountability, in combination with total transparency. The General Council
> apparently only meets once per year and of course that is by far not enough
> to function properly, the functioning of the Executive Committee, urgently
> needs to be thoroughly investigated as well.
>
> It is not about people any longer, it is not about unfortunate and stupid
> mistakes that were made, and pointing fingers at this stage is not going to
> help at all. In order to preserve these wonderful grounds, and to secure its
> heritage, we all carry a responsibilty I feel. Independents, members, and
> all other seekers for Truth, as I wrote earlier are a part of this. And
> also, this is important, think of all the fine workers at the estate, the
> ordinary Indian workers, the ones whose names are never mentioned, and for
> whom the stormy period that lies behind, must have been horrific.
>
> The questioning of the management of the Adyar estate, as Mr. Rozman
> suggests, should also take place in their names.
>
> Roberta
>
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>, "Anton
> Rozman" <anton_rozman@...> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Cass,
> >
> > Yes, one of the aspects of the problem is accountability. But there is
> much more in stake. Adyar Estate is certainly, besides and because being the
> Headquarters of the Theosophical Society and therefore a spiritual center, a
> monument of cultural but also natural heritage. Therefore the TS
> Administration has an obligation not only towards the members of the TS but
> also towards all the humanity to preserve this heritage for future
> generations - what already indicates how the problem should be approached.
> >
> > Warmest regards,
> > Anton
> >
> >
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>, Cass
> Silva <silva_cass@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Ah, so you want accountability. The short answer is for lodges, in
> future, to refuse to send the 15% until a balance sheet and projected budget
> isà forthcoming from Adyar. Another option would be to contact the Indian
> Taxation Department for information on Adyar's tax returns.
> > >
> > > One could nicely speculate that expenses will be shown to cover the
> bulk of the spending -you will know when things are becoming dire when
> property hits the market.
> > >
> > > If Adyar is not fulfilling its obligations then there is no moral
> obligation to continue to fund it.
> > > When a charity is seen to be misusing the funds the charity gets
> dropped.
> > >
> > > Cass
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ã
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >From: Anton Rozman <anton_rozman@>
> > > >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > >Sent: Wednesday, 10 June, 2009 4:22:24 PM
> > > >Subject: Re: Theos-World Adyar Estate
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Dear Cass, is it not self-obvious?
> > > >
> > > >Who is best informed and responsible for the situation at the TS
> Headquarters if not the President and its administration? 15 % of TS
> members' annual fees go to Adyar for the maintenance of the Adyar Estate and
> to cover the expenses of administration and it is members' right to know how
> and for what purposes this money is spent. You can see that Jinarajadasa' s
> paper was in fact fulfillment of his obligation to provide this information
> as certain lodge raised such question.
> > > >
> > > >Sections' representatives who attend Annual Meetings of the General
> Council have to report to their Sections' members how their money was spent
> and there were certain allegations made that Adyar Estate is in bad shape.
> So, it would be natural to see an adequate reaction from the part of the
> President.
> > > >
> > > >In past year we often stressed the need for transparency. This applies
> to the work of Sections but even more to the work of the TS Headquarters. We
> can see that various Sections are now making some humble but concrete steps
> to meet this need. On the other hand we don't see any progress from the part
> of the TS Headquarters. There are present only efforts of individual TS
> members, as Keith, Ramadoss, Erica, Pedro, William, Ãâ to provide us
> insights on the situation but any step from the part of the President and
> its administration to open some official public line of communication. The
> very fact that theos_talk represents practically the only forum for
> discussion on these issues confirms mentioned state of affairs.
> > > >
> > > >With my web site I tried to provide an additional public service in a
> form of condensed overviews of discussions on this but also other e-mail
> lists and blogs and in a form of publication of various articles and till
> now publicly not available documents and books I inherited from the late GS
> in Slovenia or acquired by purchase.
> > > >
> > > >Already in my previous discussions on this list I often tried to get
> some more information on Adyar Estate, its management and its current
> conditions and to make it public but I wasn't too much successful.
> Therefore, I now thought that publication of old Jinarajadasa' s document I
> had in my archive could represent good starting point for further collection
> of data on the TS Headquarters and its management.
> > > >
> > > >Warmest regards,
> > > >Anton
> > > >
> > > >--- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Cass Silva <silva_cass@ ...>
> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> Anton, what are you trying to get at?
> > > >> Cass
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> >
> > > >> >From: Anton Rozman <anton_rozman@ ...>
> > > >> >To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > > >> >Sent: Wednesday, 10 June, 2009 1:00:58 AM
> > > >> >Subject: Re: Theos-World Adyar Estate
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Well Ramadoss, instead of representatives' experiences I would
> rather like to see the actual President to follow her predecessor example
> and present us equally exhaustive report on the current situation regarding
> the administration of the TS Headquarters.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Best regards,
> > > >> >Anton
> > > >> >
> > > >> >--- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, MKR <mkr777@> wrote:
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> A good idea.
> > > >> >> Year after year, many TS leaders have travelled to Adyar at TS
> expense and I
> > > >> >> have not seen much written by them about their visits except whom
> they met,
> > > >> >> had coffee or tea or dinner or supper with etc. Hopefully, those
> lurker
> > > >> >> leaders who read this will take time to write about their
> experiences at
> > > >> >> Adyar.
> > > >> >> MKR
> > > >> >> More on theosophy at www.theosophy. net
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 3:52 AM, Anton Rozman <anton_rozman@ ...>
> wrote:
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > Dear friends,
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > I have uploaded to the web site an interesting document by C.
> Jinarajadasa:
> > > >> >> > "Administration of the Theosophical Headquarters at Adyar,
> Madras".
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > http://www.teozofij a.info/Teozofsko _gibanje/ Adyar_Estate_
> E.htm
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > I would like to complete an overall picture of the Adyar Estate
> with
> > > >> >> > additional material, therefore I kindly ask all those who are
> in a
> > > >> >> > possession of various documents, photos or personal impressions
> about the TS
> > > >> >> > Headquarters and would like to share them with other members of
> the TS to
> > > >> >> > send them to the following e-mail address:
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > tsmembers@ . <tsmembers%40teozof ija.info>
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > or safely upload them using a browser on the following page:
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > http://www.teozofij a.info/tsmembers /tsupload/ upload.htm
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > Warmest regards,
> > > >> >> > Anton
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter
> now.http://us. lrd.yahoo. com/_ylc= X3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNp BF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2
> MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gD VGV4dCBMaW5rBHRt X2xuawNVMTEwMzk3 NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFo
> b28hBHRtX3BvcwN0 YWdsaW5lBHRtX3Bw dHkDYXVueg- -/SIG=14600t3ni/ **http%3A/
> /au.rd.yahoo. com/mail/ tagline/creative holidays/ *http%3A/ /au.docs.
> yahoo.com/ homepageset/ %3Fp1=other% 26p2=au%26p3= mailtagline
> > > >>
> > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter
> now.http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=14600t3ni/**http%3A//au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/creativeholidays/*http%3A//au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/%3Fp1=other%26p2=au%26p3=mailtagline
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]