Theos-Talk Archives (May 2009 Message tt00787)

Hi Antonio,

I appreciate your candor and your motives, glad you see the dangers  
of a dictatorial new world order, and hope all your dreams come true.

Below is the Declaration of the independent and ungoverned United  
Lodge of Theosophists (which I entirely agree with).   I think the  
last quote falls in line with your professed ideas about religions  
(although, without any blind beliefs in their exoteric dogmas about  
messiahs, saviors, or personal gods)
---------------------
The policy of this Lodge is independent devotion to the cause of  
Theosophy, without professing attachment to any Theosophical  
organization. It is loyal to the great Founders of the Theosophical  
movement, but does not concern itself with dissensions or differences  
of individual opinion.

The work it has on hand and the end it keeps in view are too  
absorbing and too lofty to leave it the time or inclination to take  
part in side issues. That work and that end is the dissemination of  
the fundamental principles of the Philosphy of Theosophy, and the  
exemplification in practice of those principles, through a truer  
realization of the SELF; a profounder conviction of Universal  
Brotherhood.

It holds that the unassailable basis for union among Theosophists,  
wherever and however situated, is "similarity of aim, purpose and  
teaching," and therefore has neither Constitution, By-Laws nor  
Officers, the sole bond between its Associates being that basis. And  
it aims to disseminate this idea among Theosophists in the  
furtherance of Unity.

It regards as Theosophists all who are engaged in the true service of  
Humanity, without distinction of race, creed, sex, condition or  
organization, and

It welcomes to its association all those who are in accord with its  
declared purposes and who desire to fit themselves, by study and  
otherwise, to be the better able to help and teach others.

"The true Theosophist belongs to no cult or sect, yet belongs to each  
and all."

The following is the form signed by Associates of the United lodge of  
Theosophists:

Being in sympathy with the purposes of this Lodge, as set forth in  
its "Declaration," I hereby record my desire to be enrolled as an  
Associate, it being understood that such association calls for no  
obligation on my part, other than that which I, myself, determine.

"The true Theosophist belongs to no cult or sect, yet belongs to each  
and all."
---------------------------

I look forward to your album, and hope it accomplishes what you claim  
are its aim and purpose.  (I'm curious to know what it might contain  
that is "taboo to discuss out in the open".;-)

As one of the Masters of both fine and applied arts for the past 50  
or more years -- I know how difficult it is to try and teach the  
whole world anything -- let alone the truths that can set them  
free...  So, I wish you much good karma in your endeavors.

Best wishes,
Leon



On May 28, 2009, at 5/28/095:25 PM, Antonio wrote:

> Hi Leon,
>
> Just so you know i am totally against the new world order. My aim  
> is to enter and chage it from within. The new world order can go  
> one of two ways. It can lead mankind to total destruction or it can  
> lead mankind to peace. Simply because all the press sourounding the  
> new world order is negative does not mean this is how the new world  
> order will be used. Ultimatly the new world is now coming into  
> effect. this is obvious to the keen observer as he/she notes the  
> centralisation of power and wealth. The increase in security and  
> decrease of freedoms. Soon they will introduce their agenda and in  
> full will clamp down on any resisitors. I do not want this reality  
> to manifest. Because i feel so strongly about a system which aims  
> to control all facets of our lives and turn us into machines,  
> reconditioned to serve their new society, i have decided to put all  
> my love, life and energy into a truely liberating album. Something  
> which will address many of the issue way to
>  taboo to discuss out in the open. It is my aim to get this  
> information out to people in a wave of promotions. This album will  
> not be for profit i will be giving it away. My life , blood, swear  
> and tears my last attempt at leaving all my energy in this life, my  
> legacy and more over a vision, one in which we all live together as  
> brothers and sister who truely care for one another at the deepest  
> levels of compassion. For me it is the only way forward and i will  
> be strong in my beliefs and convictions because ultimatly i know my  
> intentions are love based.
>
> Wether or not i am who i believe i am and weather or not Maitreya  
> will overshadow me i have to do what is in my heart.
>
> I only hope the feelings of my previous experiences resurface and i  
> can one more time experience life through the eyes of god. to  
> inhale a breath and feel it nourish me completly to feel connected  
> to trees and animals and see them as deep signs as god speaking  
> directly to me through them, through my family and freinds and  
> those in my direct environment. If this feeling comes back i know i  
> will once more have the confidence to come alive and effect the  
> life and energy around my as a master of arts.
>
> regarding religion and your views. I am a believer in all  
> religions, all faiths and all secret faiths and societies ultimatly  
> their aim is to seek truth, to better humans, and to aid us in our  
> spiritual evolutions. You can take the good or the bad from  
> everything in life. I choose the good.
>
> Peace and blessings
> Antonio
>
> --- On Thu, 28/5/09, Leon Maurer <leonmaurer@aol.com> wrote:
>
> From: Leon Maurer <leonmaurer@aol.com>
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of  
> Truth"?
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, 28 May, 2009, 9:34 PM
>
>
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> On May 27, 2009, at 5/27/091:41 PM, Antonio wrote:
>
>
>
>> Perhaps,
>
>>
>
>> However i am under the beleif that power can be percieved in many
>
>> ways. Power of creation or Power of destruction to beging with.
>
>> Also i think it depends how the person holding the power intends to
>
>> use it. Their are evil/dark forces at work in the universe as well
>
>> as good/benevolant forces. These forces are all energy based and
>
>> all power based.
>
>>
>
>> I think the term absoloute power corrupts absoloutly should not
>
>> simply be accepted based on the fact the term sounds catchy, rather
>
>> it should be looked at objectivly.
>
>>
>
>> Peace and blessings
>
>> Antonio
>
>
>
> Yes... And that's why we have to go along with HPB (as Morton
>
> Sufilight pointed out) -- and realize that all faith based believers
>
> in gods or messiahs -- no matter what they say -- are false prophets
>
> with ulterior motives.  Especially when they promote "New World
>
> Orders" or other form of dictatorial government run by their
>
> "Maitreya" impersonator. ..
>
>
>
> And the 'corrupting power' we are talking about is the absolute power
>
> over the lives of people and their resources -- which has nothing to
>
> do with the powers of creation or destruction in specific cases of  
> need.
>
>
>
> Accordingly, we have to realize that the absolute power of the false
>
> messiah you are talking about will be corrupted absolutely by his
>
> followers and promoters -- regardless of his or your own personal
>
> motives.
>
>
>
> Think about all the previous attempts to control the minds of the
>
> masses... The Inquisition, the Nazi's. the Holy Roman Empire, the
>
> Soviet Communism, the French Revolution, etc., etc., etc.
>
>
>
> So lets, get off this naive world saviour nonsense, and start talking
>
> about what's real, while spread broadcasting true theosophy that
>
> precludes all this dogmatic religious faith-based nonsense.
>
>
>
> Leon
>
>>
>
>> --- On Wed, 27/5/09, Leon Maurer <leonmaurer@aol. com> wrote:
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> From: Leon Maurer <leonmaurer@aol. com>
>
>> Subject: Re: Theos-World Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of
>
>> Truth"?
>
>> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>> Date: Wednesday, 27 May, 2009, 5:42 AM
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> And that's the same kind of thinking that led to the Holy Roman
>
>> Empire, the inquisition, the dark ages and the 30 year war... Not to
>
>> mention Hitler's New World Order Holocaust. If anyone thinks that a
>
>> messianic based "new world order" could be any different -- they are
>
>> either totally naive, or brain washed dupes of the dark side.
>
>> Invariably, power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
>
>>
>
>> Leon
>
>>
>
>> On May 19, 2009, at 5/19/098:31 PM, Cass Silva wrote:
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>> Antonio wrote: Once he has risen to the central axis of power i
>
>>> think he will address the world and tell them it is time for
>
>>> change, he will give humanity two options 1 to accept his world
>
>>> view of love and peace or 2 to perish into total choas and anarchy.
>
>>>
>
>>> Cass: This is a christian view on Armegeddon/Apocalyp se -
>
>>> theosophy completely rejects this idea.
>
>>>
>
>>> Cass
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>> ____________ _________ _________ __
>
>>> From: Antonio/Tony None <spirit777child@ yahoo.co. uk>
>
>>> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 19 May, 2009 7:43:22 PM
>
>>> Subject: Re: Theos-World Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of
>
>>> Truth"?
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>> Hi Cass,
>
>>>
>
>>> Thank you for your view point. I understand what you say but there
>
>>> are truths that only those in the higher echlons of power know.
>
>>> This darkness in my opinion is simply tool. Like the motto that the
>
>>> illuminati use "order out of chaos" i feel that the new world order
>
>>> has been given a bad rap. In my opinion the new world order is an
>
>>> ancient plan that can be used not only for evil but also for good.
>
>>> It is a centralisation of power. Once this power is centralised and
>
>>> it will be then and only then can the agenda be enforced. I
>
>>> honestly feel that satan and god are working together to teach
>
>>> humanity to grow and evolve. In this process we fight against
>
>>> principles of good and evil within ourselves and eventually we come
>
>>> to a point where we realise within that evil is no longer something
>
>>> which benefits us. Without satan as a teaching tool we would simply
>
>>> have nothing to invest our more innate negetive selves in. Satan is
>
>>> like a mirror , a mirror of all our evils.
>
>>> The image of satan or dark powers evolves in our minds as time
>
>>> moves forward until we are able to form a more clear picture of
>
>>> what evil is. I feel the real people behind the new world order
>
>>> know this and are merely playing their part in a great theatricle.
>
>>> I don't feel the power elite, the bankers and politicians are at
>
>>> the heart of this movement. I feel they are being used by those
>
>>> even higher up the ranks. The end result will manifest in our
>
>>> reality and our time of this i have no doubt. It will be down to
>
>>> all of us individually as humanity to come together to heal a dying
>
>>> world or to remain individualistic and see the world around us fall
>
>>> apart. I know what you mean when you say there are good forces that
>
>>> will not allow the earth to perish and i beleive this too however
>
>>> the structure of our society could easily fall away and either
>
>>> bring about total chaos or the greatest change, something aking to
>
>>> the likes of the Venus project. Their are so many
>
>>> conflicting pieces of information but all my personal and spiritual
>
>>> studies and experiences intuitivly lead me to one conclusion and
>
>>> that is that the new world order is on the cusp of bringing their
>
>>> plan into fruition. The past may have had isolated pockets of
>
>>> society being introduced to this controlled mind state/hypnosis but
>
>>> never on a totally global scale. What hitler did was a half hearted
>
>>> attempt at what the new world order will do. The only difference is
>
>>> that the world will not truly know of Maitreyas intentions until it
>
>>> is out of the hands of the people and the government and the
>
>>> bankers and the world elite. Once he has risen to the central axis
>
>>> of power i think he will address the world and tell them it is time
>
>>> for change, he will give humanity two options 1 to accept his world
>
>>> view of love and peace or 2 to perish into total choas and anarchy.
>
>>> This will be either the great deception before christs arrival or
>
>>> it will be the true way forward for
>
>>> humanity either way the end result (peace) will justify the means
>
>>> (total control).
>
>>>
>
>>> Peace and blessings
>
>>> Antonio.
>
>>>
>
>>> --- On Tue, 19/5/09, Cass Silva <silva_cass@ yahoo. com> wrote:
>
>>>
>
>>> From: Cass Silva <silva_cass@ yahoo. com>
>
>>> Subject: Re: Theos-World Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of
>
>>> Truth"?
>
>>> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>>> Date: Tuesday, 19 May, 2009, 2:51 AM
>
>>>
>
>>> Will someone please explain to me in theosophical terms what the
>
>>> motive is for these dark powers?
>
>>>
>
>>> Cass
>
>>>
>
>>> ____________ _________ _________ __
>
>>>
>
>>> From: Frank Reitemeyer <ringding2009@ t-online. de>
>
>>>
>
>>> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>>>
>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 19 May, 2009 7:24:51 AM
>
>>>
>
>>> Subject: Re: Theos-World Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of
>
>>> Truth"?
>
>>>
>
>>> Leon, you have my day with your level-headed comments.
>
>>>
>
>>> But one should not fall into the trap to assume that another
>
>>> candidate is better.
>
>>>
>
>>> They are all one and the same, otherwise they would not "set aside".
>
>>>
>
>>> And if they ever get off track, they will have an accident.
>
>>>
>
>>> Democracy needs enlightened people, whose eyes are open and who
>
>>> have access to unfiltered information and are mental able to make a
>
>>> right decision.
>
>>>
>
>>> But that is not the case is those countries which claim to be a
>
>>> democracy.
>
>>>
>
>>> Neither get the people true information, nor are they teached who
>
>>> to make decisions, on the contrary, the social pressure and mass
>
>>> media do all to hypnotize the people and format the brains.
>
>>>
>
>>> Doubt is regarded as criminal.
>
>>>
>
>>> Non-believe in mass-media ideologies can bring you into jail.
>
>>>
>
>>> So no real progress since the alleged dark middle ages, only the
>
>>> taboos have changed.
>
>>>
>
>>> BTW, Ben Gurion announced in the American "The Look" magazine in
>
>>> 1968 the brave New World order with an Emperor, who will have His
>
>>> coronation in Jerusalem.
>
>>>
>
>>> So I hope that the Jews may awake before and recognize that Judaism
>
>>> is misused as a mask by dark forces.
>
>>>
>
>>> Frank
>
>>>
>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>
>>>
>
>>> From: Leon Maurer
>
>>>
>
>>> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>>>
>
>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:49 PM
>
>>>
>
>>> Subject: Re: Theos-World Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of
>
>>> Truth"?
>
>>>
>
>>> Antonio,
>
>>>
>
>>> I don't want to burst your bubble, but that's the same kind of talk
>
>>>
>
>>> that the early founders of the Catholic Church used -- that ended up
>
>>>
>
>>> causing long periods of warfare and pogroms that caused deaths,
>
>>>
>
>>> injuries, broken families and destruction of homes of countless
>
>>>
>
>>> millions of people.
>
>>>
>
>>> No matter what the motives are of the "false prophet" (Matthew
>
>>>
>
>>> 7:15-20) calling himself "Maitreya" (actually destined to come at  
>>> the
>
>>>
>
>>> end of Kali Yuga in about 400,000 years from now) -- who comes to
>
>>>
>
>>> supposedly take charge of the global "New World Order" government --
>
>>>
>
>>> it will be his sycophant inner circle of followers who will actually
>
>>>
>
>>> rule.
>
>>>
>
>>> And, as is well known to all students of history -- such absolute
>
>>>
>
>>> power, in the hands of unenlightened and greedy people, always
>
>>>
>
>>> corrupts absolutely. So, any government based on organized religion
>
>>>
>
>>> centered around a divine Messianic figurehead, and dependent on
>
>>>
>
>>> restrictive dictatorial laws to control the thoughts and actions of
>
>>>
>
>>> the people, is destined to fail.
>
>>>
>
>>> My hope (not fear) is that such a police state dictatorial  
>>> government
>
>>>
>
>>> never sneaks up on us -- like was attempted recently by another  
>>> sweet
>
>>>
>
>>> talking Jesus Christ loving, born again evangelical Christian -- who
>
>>>
>
>>> slyly stole an election, became the US President and lied us into a
>
>>>
>
>>> seemingly endless religious war -- with the help of his cabal of  
>>> evil
>
>>>
>
>>> minded political cronies. So, count on me to be one of the many
>
>>>
>
>>> enemies of this false Messiah posing as Maitreya, and the New World
>
>>>
>
>>> Order shadow government that backs him -- whoever he is or they are.
>
>>>
>
>>> I'm afraid that any true theosophist who has already, or is studying
>
>>>
>
>>> and practicing to reach full self realization, knows that none of  
>>> the
>
>>>
>
>>> works of man can ever solve the problems that man's works (guided by
>
>>>
>
>>> edicts and rules created and sanctioned by their leaders, and
>
>>>
>
>>> condoned by their personal greeds) has created. And no dictatorial
>
>>>
>
>>> government set up to solve those problems can flourish without such
>
>>>
>
>>> power, in the hands of the few, ending up just as corrupt as all
>
>>>
>
>>> revolutionary movements eventually become, when they take over
>
>>>
>
>>> dictatorial control of governing peoples lives.
>
>>>
>
>>> Of course, no real theosophist is for a fully self governed, "no
>
>>>
>
>>> rules" world... That is, untll ALL people are self realized and
>
>>>
>
>>> enlightened. But, until then, the only good government would be a
>
>>>
>
>>> true democratic government "of the people, by the people, and for  
>>> the
>
>>>
>
>>> people"... With a leadership that can be kicked out when the people
>
>>>
>
>>> decide they are not serving the purpose they were elected for.
>
>>>
>
>>> Surely,, such a government will never be ideal... But it is  
>>> certainly
>
>>>
>
>>> better than any dictatorship or monarchy over the long run.
>
>>>
>
>>> And, agreed, the global monetary system would have to be radically
>
>>>
>
>>> changed if such a true democracy could work effectively. But, we
>
>>>
>
>>> must never forget that each group of people with similar customs
>
>>>
>
>>> would have to remain free to practice them without interference  
>>> -- so
>
>>>
>
>>> long as they harm no one. So, a homogenous global governed world by
>
>>>
>
>>> any dictatorial religious leader is not a realistic solution to the
>
>>>
>
>>> world problems.
>
>>>
>
>>> As it stands, the "New World Order" government you speak of, is the
>
>>>
>
>>> same old plan for world dictatorship and takeover of the global
>
>>>
>
>>> economy by the "Secret Society" of world bankers and brokers -- who
>
>>>
>
>>> are just waiting for another phony Messiah to, knowingly or
>
>>>
>
>>> unknowingly, act as their stooge in the role of world dictator --
>
>>>
>
>>> under their guidance and control.
>
>>>
>
>>> In no way can the ancient brotherhood of non interfering Masters and
>
>>>
>
>>> Adepts be confused with this New World Order cabal of greedy  
>>> elitists
>
>>>
>
>>> and would be dictatorial monarchists.
>
>>>
>
>>> While I don't believe in your personal God or his supposed coming
>
>>>
>
>>> savior, I don't doubt your good intentions.. . Although, there is an
>
>>>
>
>>> old truism saying that "the road to hell is paved with good
>
>>>
>
>>> intentions." ;-)
>
>>>
>
>>> But, be assured that no true theosophist has to worry about
>
>>>
>
>>> "releasing the devil that is (supposedly) within them." ;-) The only
>
>>>
>
>>> one's who have such devils in them are those who would sacrifice
>
>>>
>
>>> individual liberty to a dictatorial government. So, maybe you should
>
>>>
>
>>> study the fundamental teachings of theosophy before you start
>
>>>
>
>>> preaching to those who truly understand and follow its Heart
>
>>> Doctrine.
>
>>>
>
>>> So, stick with your love-teaching music, and stop trying to convert
>
>>>
>
>>> into your religious beliefs, theosophists or any other spiritually
>
>>>
>
>>> minded independent thinkers who, while they, too, may respect your
>
>>>
>
>>> ideals, won't fall for smarmy, holier than thou talk -- when its
>
>>>
>
>>> underlying motives lead to any sort of mind-controlling,
>
>>>
>
>>> dictatorially religious governmental organization.
>
>>>
>
>>> Incidentally, after going back in my unread letter files and reading
>
>>>
>
>>> about your "overshadowing" as you call it -- I think you may have
>
>>>
>
>>> experienced unconscious mediumistic Astral epiphanies that could  
>>> have
>
>>>
>
>>> been falsely interpreted as spiritual experiences. .. If so, I
>
>>>
>
>>> recommend that you study some of the articles written by Blavatsky
>
>>>
>
>>> about the Astral realm and the errors and dangers of such  
>>> mediumship,
>
>>>
>
>>> as contrasted with true adeptship. According to the occult laws,
>
>>>
>
>>> there is no way for a living individual to contact an entity on the
>
>>>
>
>>> spiritual plane -- although there are entities on the astral plane
>
>>>
>
>>> (Buddhists call "hungry ghosts") that could mislead and be quite
>
>>>
>
>>> evilly dangerous to a non adept. You can find such articles at:
>
>>>
>
>>> http://www.blavatsk y.net/blavatsky/ blavatsky- articles. htmt
>
>>>
>
>>> Try this one for starters:
>
>>>
>
>>> http://www.blavatsk y.net/blavatsky/ arts/CaseOfObses sion.htm
>
>>>
>
>>> Apparently your jumping from one mystical teaching to another and
>
>>>
>
>>> your psychiatric breakdown experience are signs that should not be
>
>>>
>
>>> ignored before your next Astral experience, unsolicited visions, or
>
>>>
>
>>> uncontrolled kundalini awakening causes irrevocable damage... (That,
>
>>>
>
>>> incidentally, could be especially dangerous if you have ever or are
>
>>>
>
>>> now using psychoactive drugs.)
>
>>>
>
>>> Best wishes,
>
>>>
>
>>> Leon Maurer
>
>>>
>
>>> On May 13, 2009, at 5/13/097:28 AM, Antonio/Tony None wrote:
>
>>>
>
>>>> Hi Leon,
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> I overstand your stance and your world views for a future based on
>
>>>
>
>>>> no rules. I feel this is commendable and eventually will become a
>
>>>
>
>>>> reality. Before this occurs the chaos in the world needs to be
>
>>>
>
>>>> addressed. I feel that the worlds choas needs to be drawn to one
>
>>>
>
>>>> central point and at that moment when the world awakens to the true
>
>>>
>
>>>> realisation will that point be destroyed and thus allow humanity to
>
>>>
>
>>>> move forward void of negative emotion. Fear surrounding the new
>
>>>
>
>>>> world orders plan is natural but the fact remains the freternal
>
>>>
>
>>>> brotherhood do exist and they do have an agenda to centralise all
>
>>>
>
>>>> power to one operating body. This is a very worrying and yet
>
>>>
>
>>>> exciting propesition. As head of this order, Maitreya will change
>
>>>
>
>>>> both internally and externally the processes by which we as humans
>
>>>
>
>>>> operate. From re-education, to the eradication of weapons. To
>
>>>
>
>>>> sharing with one another as a spiritual rush and taking the
>
>>>
>
>>>> monetary system totally out of the equation. The fact that
>
>>>
>
>>>> Maitrey may come to us via music is not something that should be
>
>>>
>
>>>> dismissed. God's biggest gift to Lucifer was music. My album will
>
>>>
>
>>>> be different and will totally challange spiritual concepts in our
>
>>>
>
>>>> reality but that will also be down to peoples interpretation.
>
>>>
>
>>>> People like yourself unwilling to accept such a movement as being
>
>>>
>
>>>> anything other than genuine and devinly inspired. You are the
>
>>>
>
>>>> people i need to reach most, the lost ones in the dark, searching
>
>>>
>
>>>> for the light, hoping for one day to realese the devil from within
>
>>>
>
>>>> you. Armegeddon is as much an inward battle as a world
>
>>>
>
>>>> transformation. It is ultimatly about vanquishing the evils from
>
>>>
>
>>>> within and emerging evolved into a connected higher state of
>
>>>
>
>>>> consciousness. If you fail to take this change on board your evils
>
>>>
>
>>>> will overwhelm and overcome you and evetually destroy you. So i
>
>>>
>
>>>> hope and pray that when you receive my words and my music that you
>
>>>
>
>>>> look on it with an open heart and you see the true intentions. The
>
>>>
>
>>>> intent to change a dying world through that one binding universal
>
>>>
>
>>>> truth. Love.
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> Peace and blessings
>
>>>
>
>>>> Antonio
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> --- On Wed, 13/5/09, Leon Maurer <leonmaurer@ aol. com> wrote:
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> From: Leon Maurer <leonmaurer@ aol. com>
>
>>>
>
>>>> Subject: Re: Theos-World Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of
>
>>>
>
>>>> Truth"?
>
>>>
>
>>>> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>>>
>
>>>> Date: Wednesday, 13 May, 2009, 12:36 AM
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> Since the Masters knew what problems resulted from the
>
>>>
>
>>>> revealing of
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> their names by their first messenger (HPB) -- do you think they (or
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> their successors) would make the same mistake again when the new
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> messenger begins the new mission?
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> And, by all the rules set down by the Masters (and promulgated
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> through HPB) -- wouldn't the actual work on that mission have to
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> begin in I975 by someone already mature in the practical ways of  
>>>> the
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> modern world, fully educated and experienced in ALL the fine and
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> applied arts of current science, engineering and all levels of high
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> technology communication -- while also being fully indoctrinated
>
>>>> with
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> the theosophical teachings -- to at least the beginning of  
>>>> adeptship
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> -- as was HPB when she began her mission in 1875?
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> And, wouldn't all the occult powers -- that also attracted  
>>>> hordes of
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> superficial sycophants and resulted in many fraudulent copycats
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> during and after HPB's time -- be intentionally withheld from their
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> new agent (such as the power of foresight and other siddhis was
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> withheld from HPB)?
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> Obviously, of course, none of the present Masters would ever reveal
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> themselves, personally, or allow their messenger to expose their
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> names this time around. There would also no longer be a need to
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> attract members to the teachings through an organization, or to a
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> notorious personality. .. Since all that now matters would be to
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> prove the theosophical teachings beyond a shadow of a doubt, free
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> each human to be their own judge and master, as well as discredit
>
>>>> all
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> forms of organized religion based on supernatural causation,
>
>>>> personal
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> Gods, vicarious atonement and living messiahs.
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> .
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> Think about all that, and try to imagine anyone in the Theosophical
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> Society, or appointed by its leaders, being in a position to fill
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> that role... Especially, anyone who is not fully indoctrinated into
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> the entire secret doctrine -- as thoroughly taught by HPB in ALL  
>>>> her
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> writings.
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> Didn't William Q. Judge say that there were only three books
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> necessary to fully comprehend theosophy -- which were, the Secret
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> Doctrine, the Bhagavad Gita, and the Yoga Aphorisms of Patanjali?
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> (Is it any wonder, then, why he transliterated all three -- along
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> with their detailed commentaries and answers to questions?)
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> Isn't it, then, also obvious why the real identity of the messenger
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> could not be revealed until the actual scientific "proof" of the
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> Secret Doctrine metaphysics actually shows up in the scientific
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> journals and the mass media, and becomes worldwide public  
>>>> knowledge?
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> And, even then, the true messenger will not be known, since the
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> accredited, peer reviewable physicists who win the prize for such a
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> proof will never acknowledge who or what inspired them -- (as
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> Einstein never would think of giving credit to HPB for his
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> theories.;-) See:
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> http://leonmaurer. info/einstein. html
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> Only, then, will all true theosophists recognize the new teachings
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> (with no need to make the retired messenger their leader) and rally
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> together as true "companions" to form the nucleus of the "universal
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> brotherhood" ... That, by their example, teaches the rest of the
>
>>>> world
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> the true meaning and practice of the Heart Doctrine of theosophy as
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> the basis of *true* democratic government.. . With no need of a
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> messiah and his hierarchical leadership, New World Order police
>
>>>> state
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> governments, personal gods, priests, or religious organizations.
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> Thus, anyone who claims to be the new messenger, world teacher,
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> messiah, returned Christ, Maitreya, etc., before (or after) that
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> time, would necessarily be an impostor (or false prophet). And, the
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> biggest joke of all is the delusional idea that the "new message"
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> will be in the form of a musical album, sung by the messiah
>
>>>
>
>>>> himself ;-)
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> So, let's stop this endless speculative nonsense, and knuckle
>
>>>> down to
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> learning and teaching pure theosophy -- so we'll all be ready when
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> that "new message" shows up... And, afterward, have no need for
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> organizations or leaders to tell us how to act (as one) in whatever
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> way is necessary to turn this world back into the paradise it was
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> meant to be.
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> Best wishes,
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> Leon Maurer
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> On May 11, 2009, at 5/11/099:55 PM, Cass Silva wrote:
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> Does this mean that the person was born in 1975 - which would now
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> make him 35 years old or that in 1975 his mission began?
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> Cass
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> ____________ _________ _________ __
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> From: danielhcaldwell <danielhcaldwell@ yahoo.com>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 12 May, 2009 3:25:00 AM
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> Subject: Theos-World Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of
>
>>>
>
>>>>> Truth"?
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of Truth"?
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> Alice Bailey claimed that "her teachings came from the same Occult
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> Brotherhood that taught HP Blavatsky . . . . Bailey's guide
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> professed to be the same Djual Khool that was one of HPB's
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> teachers. Bailey also declared that her guru was the same Master
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> Koot Hoomi that Blavatsky knew."
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> Many Bailey students have quoted the following passage from
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> H.P.B.'s pen in supporting the claim that Alice Bailey was the
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> expected new messenger of the Masters in the 20th century:
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> "In Century the Twentieth some disciple more informed, and far
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> better fitted, may be sent by the Masters of Wisdom to give final
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> and irrefutable proofs that there exists a Science called Gupta-
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> Vidya; and that . . . the source of all religions and
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> philosophies . . . has been for many ages forgotten and lost to
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> men, but is at last found." S.D., 1888, Vol I, p. xxxviii  
>>>>> (original
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> edition)
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> But Students should compare this 1888 statement with the following
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> two passages from HPB's pen. The first extract was written in
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> December 1888 and the second one dates from the middle of 1889.
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> The first passage reads:
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> "Let every member [of the Esoteric Section] know . . . that the
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> time for such priceless acquisition is limited. The writer of the
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> present is old; her life is well-nigh worn out, and she may be
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> summoned 'home' any day and almost any hour. And if her place is
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> even filled up, perchance by another worthier and more learned  
>>>>> than
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> herself, still there remain but twelve years to the last hour of
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> the term - namely, till December the 31st, 1899. Those who will  
>>>>> not
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> have profited by the opportunity (given to the world in every last
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> quarter of a century), those who will not have reached a certain
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> point of psychic and spiritual development, or that point from
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> which begins the cycle of adeptship, by that day - those will
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> advance no further than the knowledge already acquired. No Master
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> of Wisdom from the East will appear or send any one to Europe or
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> America after that period, and the sluggards will have to renounce
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> every chance
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> of advancement in their present incarnation - until the year 1975.
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> Such is the LAW, for we are in Kali Yuga - the Black Age - and the
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> restrictions in this cycle, the first 5,000 years of which will
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> expire in 1897, are great and almost insuperable. " HPB's  
>>>>> Collected
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> Writings, Vol XII, pp. 491-492. Italics added.
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> The second passage is as follows:
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> ". . .during the last quarter of every hundred years an attempt is
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> made by those 'Masters' . . . to help on the spiritual progress of
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> Humanity in a marked and definite way. Towards the close of each
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> century you will invariably find that an outpouring or upheaval of
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> spirituality - or call it mysticism if you prefer - has taken
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> place. Some one or more persons have appeared in the world as  
>>>>> their
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> agents, and a greater or less amount of occult knowledge and
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> teaching has been given out . . . . .If the present attempt, in  
>>>>> the
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> form of our Society, succeeds better than its predecessors have
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> done, then it will be in existence as an organized, living and
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> healthy body when the time comes for the effort of the XXth
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> century. The general condition of men's minds and hearts will have
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> been improved and purified by the spread of its teachings . . . .
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> but besides a large
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> and accessible literature ready to men's hands, the next impulse
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> will find a numerous and united body of people ready to welcome  
>>>>> the
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> new torch-bearer of Truth. He will find the minds of men prepared
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> for his message, a language ready for him in which to clothe the
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> new truths he brings, an organization awaiting his  
>>>>> arrival . . . ."
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> The Key to Theosophy, pp. 306-7. Italics added.
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> The three passages taken together indicate that HPB was referring
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> to an emissary of the Masters coming in 1975 or later. These
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> statements by HPB would seem to rule out the messenger being Alice
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> Bailey or many other claimants. For a list of such claimants, see:
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> http://blavatskyarc hives.com/ latermessengers. htm#six
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> Daniel
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> http://hpb.cc
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
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>>>
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>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
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>>>
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>>>>
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>>>
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>>>>
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>>>
>
>>>>
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>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
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>>>
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>>>>
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>>>
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>>>>
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>>>
>
>>>>
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>>>
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>>>>
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>>>
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>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>
>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>>>
>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>>>
>
>>> Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter
>
>>> now.http://us. lrd.yahoo. com/_ylc= X3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNp
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>
>>> NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFo b28hBHRtX3BvcwN0 YWdsaW5lBHRtX3Bw dHkDYXVueg- -/
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>>> holidays/ *http%3A/ /au.docs. yahoo.com/ homepageset/ %3Fp1=other%
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>>> Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter
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>>> now.http://us. lrd.yahoo. com/
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>>> _ylc=X3oDMTJxN2x2Zm NpBF9zAzIwMjM2MT Y2MTMEdG1fZG1lY2
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>>> gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBH RtX
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>>> 2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0 bV9uZXQDWWFob28h BHRtX3BvcwN0YWds
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>>> aW5lBHRtX3BwdHkD YXV
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>>> ueg--/SIG=14600t3ni /**http%3A/ /au.rd.yahoo. com/mail/ tagline/
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>>> creativeholidays/ *http%3A/ /au.docs. yahoo.com/ homepageset/ %
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>>> ------------ --------- --------- ------
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>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
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> ------------------------------------
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
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