Theos-Talk Archives (May 2009 Message tt00783)

Morten, 

Your except of Olcutt is pretty hilarous to me. Olcutt a Buddhist and Moses a babbling delusional Christian with his "Imperator" to inform him of all needful things lol! It is a true wonder to read Olcutt's words lol! Years ago in the 1970's I bought Stainton Mose's books from rare book dealers in LA and read them because H.P.B. cited him in her works and I might add she didn't validate his channed material. It was almost an utter waste of money. My advice to any one new is save your money and buy some other author who won't reinforce delusional mock-ups. 

Regards, 
John 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk> 
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 10:02:32 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: Re: Theos-World Frank on the Esoteric School 








Dear friends 

My views are: 

1. 
On "A Flash of Light upon Occult Free Masonry," Page 135 - try this. Maybe some of the Theos-Talk members would like to quote it online for free?: 
The Theosophist V3 1881 to 1882 
http://www.kessinger.net/searchresults-orderthebook.php?ISBN=1417907444 

William Stainton Moses was using the alias M.A. Oxon 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Stainton_Moses 

- - - 

2. 
Perhaps it would be a good idea to throw a few words about H. P. Blavatsky's and the theosophical stance on mediumism. 

H. P. Blavatsky wrote: 
"ENQUIRER. You seem very bitter against Spirits. As you have given me your views and your reasons for disbelieving in the materialization of, and direct communication in seances, with the disembodied spirits - or the "spirits of the dead" - would you mind enlightening me as to one more fact? Why are some Theosophists never tired of saying how dangerous is intercourse with spirits, and mediumship? Have they any particular reason for this? 

THEOSOPHIST. We must suppose so. I know I have. Owing to my familiarity for over half a century with these invisible, yet but too tangible and undeniable "influences," from the conscious Elementals, semi-conscious shells, down to the utterly senseless and nondescript spooks of all kinds, I claim a certain right to my views. " 
.... 
"ENQUIRER. Do you mean to suggest that it is all witchcraft and nothing more? 

THEOSOPHIST. What I mean is that, whether conscious or unconscious, all this dealing with the dead is necromancy, and a most dangerous practice. For ages before Moses such raising of the dead was regarded by all the intelligent nations as sinful and cruel, inasmuch as it disturbs the rest of the souls and interferes with their evolutionary development into higher states. The collective wisdom of all past centuries has ever been loud in denouncing such practices. Finally, I say, what I have never ceased repeating orally and in print for fifteen years: While some of the so-called "spirits" do not know what they are talking about, repeating merely - like poll-parrots - what they find in the mediums' and other people's brains, others are most dangerous, and can only lead one to evil. " 
(The Key to Theosophy, p. 191-196) 
http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/aKEY.htm 

H. P. Blavatsky said: 
""M. A. (Oxon)" closes, as seen above in his article, with the assurance that in writing as he does he is only desirous of making one more contribution to the study of a perplexing subject. "He is far from desiring to obtrude his opinion." Yet, at the same time he devotes three and a half columns to proving that the theosophic teachings are "bubbles" based upon air, probably only because our facts do not square with his facts. We can assure our kind friend that the occultists are far less desirous than he can ever be of obtruding their opinion upon unwilling minds, or of criticizing those of other people. But where their theories are attacked, they answer and can give à good facts as he can himself. Occult philosophy rests upon the accumulated psychic facts of thousands of years. Spiritualism is but thirty-five years old, and has not as yet produced one recognized non-mediumistic adept." 
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v4/y1883_090.htm 

Olcott said about M. A. Oxon in 1891: 
"To a travelling American, the sight of a king is always interesting, and so I was gratified to see and exchange salutes with the tall, handsome, soldierly-looking King of Belgium, who walked about, with his wife and daughter, amid the crowds with perfect freedom. 
I found on reaching London most of the staff of Headquarters away on their holidays, Mrs. Besant was there, and I had the opportunity of hearing her give a splendid lecture at the Blavatsky Lodge on "East and West: the Future of the T. S.". On the 28th I went to Canterbury to see my dear old friend Stainton Moses, the most brilliant of the writers on Spiritualism, so well known as "M. A. (Oxon)". No two men could have been more drawn to each other than he and I; our friendship, begun through correspondence while I was still at New York, had continued unshaken throughout all changes and frictions between our respective parties, the Spiritualists and Theosophists. The recollection of this visit to Canterbury is one of my pleasantest memories, because of the delightful hours we passed together in wanderings about the ancient town and in the cathedral, and in affectionate talk." 
http://www.theosophy.ph/onlinebooks/odl/odl422.html 

M. Sufilight 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Cass Silva 
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 3:51 AM 
Subject: Re: Theos-World Frank on the Esoteric School 

P.130 the Mahatma Letters on Stainton Moses 
"A psychic Society is being founded and he as succeeded in bringing over to it Wyld, Massey and others. Shall I also tell you the future of that new body? It will grow and develop and expand and finally the Theos.Soc. of London will be swamped in it, and lose first its influence then - its name, until Theosophy in its very name becomes a thing of the Past. It is you alone, the simple action of your swift pen which will have produced the nidana and the ten-del, the 'cause' and its 'effect' and thus the work of seven years, the constant untiring efforts of the builders of the Theos.Society will perish - killed by the wounded vanity of a medium. 

This simple act on your part is silently digging out a chasm between us. The evil may yet be averted - LET THE SOCIETY EXIST BUT IN NAME TILL THE DAY IT CAN GET MEMBERS WITH WHOM WE CAN WORD DE FACTO- and by the creation of another counteracting cause we may save the situation. The hand of the Chohan alone can bridge it, but it must be yours that places the first stone for the work. How will you do it? How can you do it? Think of it well, if you care for further intercourse. Tbhey want something new. A Ritual to amuse them. Consult with Subba Row, with Sankariah, the Dewan Naib of Cochin, read attentively his pamphlet, extracts from which you will find in the last Theosophist (see "A Flash of Light upon Occult Free Masonry," Page 135) 

Can anyone tell me where I can source this pamphlet and the article? 

Cass 

________________________________ 
From: Frank Reitemeyer < ringding2009@t-online.de > 
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Thursday, 28 May, 2009 5:04:57 AM 
Subject: Re: Theos-World Frank on the Esoteric School 

Daniel writes: 

I find your 2004 account below quite interesting but 
I am also quite puzzled by many of your statements. 

For example, you write: 

"Judge, who designed the ES of 1888, was appointed 
by HPB as her successor as head and teacher...." 

What do you base this statement on? 
------------ --------- - 

Daniel, I base my statements on: 
a) oral information from Elsie Benjamin, secretary to both Tingley and 
Purucker, to Berlin theosophists, whose father was eyewitness in London over 
the Judge/Besant quarrel. 
b) various statements by E.S. members 
c) E.S. publications like that of Joseph Fussell ("Some Incidents... " & his 
articles in the Point Loma journals). 

That HPB made Judge her esoteric successor and head and teacher in the E.S. 
is based on the fact that most lay chelas of HPB were able to recognize and 
follow him. 
Judge got HPB's occult ring as outer sign of the transmission line. 

Another outer sign is HPB's last photo where she reveals the guruparampara. 

------------ --------- - 
Daniel writes: 

Where is the document that shows that "Judge... 
was appointed by HPB as her successor as head and 
teacher...." ? 

------------ --------- - 

I can't say whether there exists such a document. 
I understand that the E.S. was an occult organzisation which naturally does 
not publish its documents, at least those which have to do with the 
guruparampara. 
What would it help if HPB would have published a clear document which the 
muggles could understand? 
I understand that the Masters did not wish to launch a new muggles church. 
The orderly succession in the transmission line was the only business of the 
chelas who where concerned and not for the amusement of the world. 

But perhaps even such a document exists. 
Then you should ask someone who has access to those documents. 

------------ --------- - 
Daniel writes: 

You also write: 

"Annie Besant was appointed by HPB as joint ES head in a 
letter to Judge. These letter appeared out of a sudden 
within a bulk of papers before Annie Besant in a meeting 
(Judge precipitated it)." 

"As AB as a lay chela was going through the regular 
initiations she was offered the post by HPB:. for a special 
time period of probation." 

What letter to Judge? 

------------ --------- - 

I was writing out from memory. 
I refered to that letter which AB read in the IG meeting, where Judge was 
present. 
Most likely it is in your compiliation of the I.G. minutes or in Judge's 
collected works. 

------------ --------- - 
Daniel writes: 

You also say Besant was offered the post by HPB for a 
special time period... 

Again where are you obtaining this information? 

Can you tell us what documents you are basing your 
opinion on? 

------------ --------- - 

the information that AB was not a teacher, but a pupil in the E.S. is 
a) from Elsie Benjamin 
b) from Fussell's pamphlet "Incidents.. ." 

------------ --------- - 
Daniel writes: 

Are you saying that Judge was Besant's teacher???? 

------------ --------- - 

In the same sense as HPB was Besant's teacher. 
------------ --------- - 
Daniel writes: 

Who was Besant's teacher?? 

------------ --------- - 
When Judge was teacher in the E.S. and Besant was a member of it, then it is 
logical, who was Besant's teacher. 
Besant was not a teacher, she became Recorder of the Teachings. 
That is not the same. 

------------ --------- - 
Daniel writes: 

I would suggest that readers should be as cautious 
in accepting many of your statements as they should be 
of various statements made on this forum in favor 
of Besant and Leadbeater. 

------------ --------- - 

I also suggest that readers should always be cautions, including my humble 
comments. 
Perhaps someone should scan Fussell's E.S. history articles from the "Forum" 
and his pamphlets. 
I think this could clarify much. 

Frank 

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