Theos-Talk Archives (May 2009 Message tt00624)

IMO, Benjamin Crene is the refuse left from the Krishnamurti Messiah fiasco.

If as you say, the NWO is an ideal then you are contributing and fueling that ideal by participating in its so-called validity.

There have been world orders since time began - it simply means those that have the money have the power and those with the money will use that money to maintain their powerbase irrespective of what means are necessary. They, however, do not have the power to destroy this planet - far greater energies work against this.

I believe that your fear of extinction fuels your attachment to a messiah based salvation.  No previous Messiahs saved anyone they pointed the way to saving ourselves.

Cass




________________________________
From: Antonio/Tony None <spirit777child@yahoo.co.uk>
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 19 May, 2009 7:11:24 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of Truth"?





Hi Leon,

Thanks for your indepth feedback.

I have taken on board your points of view and what seems to be a vast wealth of knowledge, well articulated in your reply.

I can't help the beliefs that i have, they are a result of my life experiences. I beleive it is my calling to break down what the new world order is and what their true agenda is. I would have to agree that the new world order is a powerful ideal one that could potential destroy or heal the world in which we live.

The fact remains that regardless of your beliefs, the powers that be will indeed see their plans come to fruition. The TS in my opinion has many faces. It is the culmination of opinions and ideals of each member that create the future for the TS. 

I have recently watched a few of Krishnamurti' s lectures and i saw him talking at the UN and being introduced as the World Teacher. Although i respect his views i still think he was far off the mark in terms of what i would percieve the real world teacher to be. 

Benjamin creme a self proclaimed theosphist believes in Maitreya and i am not quite sure what to make of that fact. Is this not a common beleief amongst members of the TS?

There are many conflicting views and i can see why the TS is being torn and sides are being formed. My real aim is to break down the viel of secrecy and show people what is really going on. I honestly beleive that the false messiah will actually fool the very elite. those who beleive he will be used as another pupet to bring about their agenda. However i think this is where Maitreya will come into his element and expose the very people that think he is working for them. They say if you cant beat them join them. That is the only way to beat them, from within. 

If my album makes some waves and i am sure with the confession of who i am in my songs it will. Then i hope that the powers that be will wake up and realise that i am here to help them with their plans. Once inside the devils house i will use love to contaminate the evils and thus turn power inside out. 

The fact that Maitreya is not destined to arrive for sometime according to your calculations does not deter me in my efforts as time is not relevent to my end goal. The fact is this earth will long perish before the time of Maitryea's arrival based on buddhist calculations.

My time to act is now. My life will be put on the line. What i am talking about in my music could lead me to public ridicule something i am willing to sacrafice for change. 

The bottom line is i know that Maitryea is a false prophet and i also know that without this false prophet Christ can not reapear. So in order to bring about Christs coming i am willing to be the antichrist or false messiah. I want to make that sacrafice. I feel that is my calling.

So i will follow my beleifs to the end and see where my album takes me. 

That overshadowing experience is one i want back. That was the only time in my life that i felt complete, connected and truely at peace. That is what i am aiming for and i feel when my life's work is complete i can either totally let go of that part of my life or totally embrace it based on the reaction of my material. 

I have had amaizing visions of the future and one based on love and peace and ultimatly that is what i am fighting for in the best and most powerful way i know. 

So it is obvious we have two very different points of view and i respect yours and know that it is more of an educated enriched perspective of the matters which we speak of but i must follow what i beleive in with all my heart and hope to make positive change as a result.

We shall see on the 22nd of July how east london reacts to my campaign. Hopefully it will cause a stir and kick start a revolution. But we will see.

Peace and blessings
Antonio.

--- On Mon, 18/5/09, Leon Maurer <leonmaurer@aol. com> wrote:

From: Leon Maurer <leonmaurer@aol. com>
Subject: Re: Theos-World Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of Truth"?
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Date: Monday, 18 May, 2009, 8:49 PM

Antonio,

I don't want to burst your bubble, but that's the same kind of talk 

that the early founders of the Catholic Church used -- that ended up 

causing long periods of warfare and pogroms that caused deaths, 

injuries, broken families and destruction of homes of countless 

millions of people.

No matter what the motives are of the "false prophet" (Matthew 

7:15-20) calling himself "Maitreya" (actually destined to come at the 

end of Kali Yuga in about 400,000 years from now) -- who comes to 

supposedly take charge of the global "New World Order" government -- 

it will be his sycophant inner circle of followers who will actually 

rule.

And, as is well known to all students of history -- such absolute 

power, in the hands of unenlightened and greedy people, always 

corrupts absolutely. So, any government based on organized religion 

centered around a divine Messianic figurehead, and dependent on 

restrictive dictatorial laws to control the thoughts and actions of 

the people, is destined to fail.

My hope (not fear) is that such a police state dictatorial government 

never sneaks up on us -- like was attempted recently by another sweet 

talking Jesus Christ loving, born again evangelical Christian -- who 

slyly stole an election, became the US President and lied us into a 

seemingly endless religious war -- with the help of his cabal of evil 

minded political cronies. So, count on me to be one of the many 

enemies of this false Messiah posing as Maitreya, and the New World 

Order shadow government that backs him -- whoever he is or they are.

I'm afraid that any true theosophist who has already, or is studying 

and practicing to reach full self realization, knows that none of the 

works of man can ever solve the problems that man's works (guided by 

edicts and rules created and sanctioned by their leaders, and 

condoned by their personal greeds) has created. And no dictatorial 

government set up to solve those problems can flourish without such 

power, in the hands of the few, ending up just as corrupt as all 

revolutionary movements eventually become, when they take over 

dictatorial control of governing peoples lives.

Of course, no real theosophist is for a fully self governed, "no 

rules" world... That is, untll ALL people are self realized and 

enlightened. But, until then, the only good government would be a 

true democratic government "of the people, by the people, and for the 

people"... With a leadership that can be kicked out when the people 

decide they are not serving the purpose they were elected for. 

Surely,, such a government will never be ideal... But it is certainly 

better than any dictatorship or monarchy over the long run.

And, agreed, the global monetary system would have to be radically 

changed if such a true democracy could work effectively. But, we 

must never forget that each group of people with similar customs 

would have to remain free to practice them without interference -- so 

long as they harm no one. So, a homogenous global governed world by 

any dictatorial religious leader is not a realistic solution to the 

world problems.

As it stands, the "New World Order" government you speak of, is the 

same old plan for world dictatorship and takeover of the global 

economy by the "Secret Society" of world bankers and brokers -- who 

are just waiting for another phony Messiah to, knowingly or 

unknowingly, act as their stooge in the role of world dictator -- 

under their guidance and control.

In no way can the ancient brotherhood of non interfering Masters and 

Adepts be confused with this New World Order cabal of greedy elitists 

and would be dictatorial monarchists.

While I don't believe in your personal God or his supposed coming 

savior, I don't doubt your good intentions.. . Although, there is an 

old truism saying that "the road to hell is paved with good 

intentions." ;-)

But, be assured that no true theosophist has to worry about 

"releasing the devil that is (supposedly) within them." ;-) The only 

one's who have such devils in them are those who would sacrifice 

individual liberty to a dictatorial government. So, maybe you should 

study the fundamental teachings of theosophy before you start 

preaching to those who truly understand and follow its Heart Doctrine.

So, stick with your love-teaching music, and stop trying to convert 

into your religious beliefs, theosophists or any other spiritually 

minded independent thinkers who, while they, too, may respect your 

ideals, won't fall for smarmy, holier than thou talk -- when its 

underlying motives lead to any sort of mind-controlling, 

dictatorially religious governmental organization.

Incidentally, after going back in my unread letter files and reading 

about your "overshadowing" as you call it -- I think you may have 

experienced unconscious mediumistic Astral epiphanies that could have 

been falsely interpreted as spiritual experiences. .. If so, I 

recommend that you study some of the articles written by Blavatsky 

about the Astral realm and the errors and dangers of such mediumship, 

as contrasted with true adeptship. According to the occult laws, 

there is no way for a living individual to contact an entity on the 

spiritual plane -- although there are entities on the astral plane 

(Buddhists call "hungry ghosts") that could mislead and be quite 

evilly dangerous to a non adept. You can find such articles at:

http://www.blavatsk y.net/blavatsky/ blavatsky- articles. htmt

Try this one for starters:

http://www.blavatsk y.net/blavatsky/ arts/CaseOfObses sion.htm

Apparently your jumping from one mystical teaching to another and 

your psychiatric breakdown experience are signs that should not be 

ignored before your next Astral experience, unsolicited visions, or 

uncontrolled kundalini awakening causes irrevocable damage... (That, 

incidentally, could be especially dangerous if you have ever or are 

now using psychoactive drugs.)

Best wishes,

Leon Maurer

On May 13, 2009, at 5/13/097:28 AM, Antonio/Tony None wrote:

> Hi Leon,

>

> I overstand your stance and your world views for a future based on 

> no rules. I feel this is commendable and eventually will become a 

> reality. Before this occurs the chaos in the world needs to be 

> addressed. I feel that the worlds choas needs to be drawn to one 

> central point and at that moment when the world awakens to the true 

> realisation will that point be destroyed and thus allow humanity to 

> move forward void of negative emotion. Fear surrounding the new 

> world orders plan is natural but the fact remains the freternal 

> brotherhood do exist and they do have an agenda to centralise all 

> power to one operating body. This is a very worrying and yet 

> exciting propesition. As head of this order, Maitreya will change 

> both internally and externally the processes by which we as humans 

> operate. From re-education, to the eradication of weapons. To 

> sharing with one another as a spiritual rush and taking the 

> monetary system totally out of the equation. The fact that

> Maitrey may come to us via music is not something that should be 

> dismissed. God's biggest gift to Lucifer was music. My album will 

> be different and will totally challange spiritual concepts in our 

> reality but that will also be down to peoples interpretation. 

> People like yourself unwilling to accept such a movement as being 

> anything other than genuine and devinly inspired. You are the 

> people i need to reach most, the lost ones in the dark, searching 

> for the light, hoping for one day to realese the devil from within 

> you. Armegeddon is as much an inward battle as a world 

> transformation. It is ultimatly about vanquishing the evils from 

> within and emerging evolved into a connected higher state of 

> consciousness. If you fail to take this change on board your evils 

> will overwhelm and overcome you and evetually destroy you. So i 

> hope and pray that when you receive my words and my music that you 

> look on it with an open heart and you see the true intentions. The

> intent to change a dying world through that one binding universal 

> truth. Love.

>

> Peace and blessings

> Antonio

>

> --- On Wed, 13/5/09, Leon Maurer <leonmaurer@ aol. com> wrote:

>

> From: Leon Maurer <leonmaurer@ aol. com>

> Subject: Re: Theos-World Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of 

> Truth"?

> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com

> Date: Wednesday, 13 May, 2009, 12:36 AM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Since the Masters knew what problems resulted from the 

> revealing of

>

> their names by their first messenger (HPB) -- do you think they (or

>

> their successors) would make the same mistake again when the new

>

> messenger begins the new mission?

>

>

>

> And, by all the rules set down by the Masters (and promulgated

>

> through HPB) -- wouldn't the actual work on that mission have to

>

> begin in I975 by someone already mature in the practical ways of the

>

> modern world, fully educated and experienced in ALL the fine and

>

> applied arts of current science, engineering and all levels of high

>

> technology communication -- while also being fully indoctrinated with

>

> the theosophical teachings -- to at least the beginning of adeptship

>

> -- as was HPB when she began her mission in 1875?

>

>

>

> And, wouldn't all the occult powers -- that also attracted hordes of

>

> superficial sycophants and resulted in many fraudulent copycats

>

> during and after HPB's time -- be intentionally withheld from their

>

> new agent (such as the power of foresight and other siddhis was

>

> withheld from HPB)?

>

>

>

> Obviously, of course, none of the present Masters would ever reveal

>

> themselves, personally, or allow their messenger to expose their

>

> names this time around. There would also no longer be a need to

>

> attract members to the teachings through an organization, or to a

>

> notorious personality. .. Since all that now matters would be to

>

> prove the theosophical teachings beyond a shadow of a doubt, free

>

> each human to be their own judge and master, as well as discredit all

>

> forms of organized religion based on supernatural causation, personal

>

> Gods, vicarious atonement and living messiahs.

>

> .

>

> Think about all that, and try to imagine anyone in the Theosophical

>

> Society, or appointed by its leaders, being in a position to fill

>

> that role... Especially, anyone who is not fully indoctrinated into

>

> the entire secret doctrine -- as thoroughly taught by HPB in ALL her

>

> writings.

>

>

>

> Didn't William Q. Judge say that there were only three books

>

> necessary to fully comprehend theosophy -- which were, the Secret

>

> Doctrine, the Bhagavad Gita, and the Yoga Aphorisms of Patanjali?

>

> (Is it any wonder, then, why he transliterated all three -- along

>

> with their detailed commentaries and answers to questions?)

>

>

>

> Isn't it, then, also obvious why the real identity of the messenger

>

> could not be revealed until the actual scientific "proof" of the

>

> Secret Doctrine metaphysics actually shows up in the scientific

>

> journals and the mass media, and becomes worldwide public knowledge?

>

> And, even then, the true messenger will not be known, since the

>

> accredited, peer reviewable physicists who win the prize for such a

>

> proof will never acknowledge who or what inspired them -- (as

>

> Einstein never would think of giving credit to HPB for his

>

> theories.;-) See:

>

> http://leonmaurer. info/einstein. html

>

>

>

> Only, then, will all true theosophists recognize the new teachings

>

> (with no need to make the retired messenger their leader) and rally

>

> together as true "companions" to form the nucleus of the "universal

>

> brotherhood" ... That, by their example, teaches the rest of the world

>

> the true meaning and practice of the Heart Doctrine of theosophy as

>

> the basis of *true* democratic government.. . With no need of a

>

> messiah and his hierarchical leadership, New World Order police state

>

> governments, personal gods, priests, or religious organizations.

>

>

>

> Thus, anyone who claims to be the new messenger, world teacher,

>

> messiah, returned Christ, Maitreya, etc., before (or after) that

>

> time, would necessarily be an impostor (or false prophet). And, the

>

> biggest joke of all is the delusional idea that the "new message"

>

> will be in the form of a musical album, sung by the messiah 

> himself ;-)

>

>

>

> So, let's stop this endless speculative nonsense, and knuckle down to

>

> learning and teaching pure theosophy -- so we'll all be ready when

>

> that "new message" shows up... And, afterward, have no need for

>

> organizations or leaders to tell us how to act (as one) in whatever

>

> way is necessary to turn this world back into the paradise it was

>

> meant to be.

>

>

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Leon Maurer

>

>

>

> On May 11, 2009, at 5/11/099:55 PM, Cass Silva wrote:

>

>

>

>> Does this mean that the person was born in 1975 - which would now

>

>> make him 35 years old or that in 1975 his mission began?

>

>>

>

>> Cass

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> ____________ _________ _________ __

>

>> From: danielhcaldwell <danielhcaldwell@ yahoo.com>

>

>> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com

>

>> Sent: Tuesday, 12 May, 2009 3:25:00 AM

>

>> Subject: Theos-World Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of 

>> Truth"?

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> Was Alice Bailey "the New Torch-Bearer of Truth"?

>

>>

>

>> Alice Bailey claimed that "her teachings came from the same Occult

>

>> Brotherhood that taught HP Blavatsky . . . . Bailey's guide

>

>> professed to be the same Djual Khool that was one of HPB's

>

>> teachers. Bailey also declared that her guru was the same Master

>

>> Koot Hoomi that Blavatsky knew."

>

>>

>

>> Many Bailey students have quoted the following passage from

>

>> H.P.B.'s pen in supporting the claim that Alice Bailey was the

>

>> expected new messenger of the Masters in the 20th century:

>

>>

>

>> "In Century the Twentieth some disciple more informed, and far

>

>> better fitted, may be sent by the Masters of Wisdom to give final

>

>> and irrefutable proofs that there exists a Science called Gupta-

>

>> Vidya; and that . . . the source of all religions and

>

>> philosophies . . . has been for many ages forgotten and lost to

>

>> men, but is at last found." S.D., 1888, Vol I, p. xxxviii (original

>

>> edition)

>

>>

>

>> But Students should compare this 1888 statement with the following

>

>> two passages from HPB's pen. The first extract was written in

>

>> December 1888 and the second one dates from the middle of 1889.

>

>>

>

>> The first passage reads:

>

>>

>

>> "Let every member [of the Esoteric Section] know . . . that the

>

>> time for such priceless acquisition is limited. The writer of the

>

>> present is old; her life is well-nigh worn out, and she may be

>

>> summoned 'home' any day and almost any hour. And if her place is

>

>> even filled up, perchance by another worthier and more learned than

>

>> herself, still there remain but twelve years to the last hour of

>

>> the term - namely, till December the 31st, 1899. Those who will not

>

>> have profited by the opportunity (given to the world in every last

>

>> quarter of a century), those who will not have reached a certain

>

>> point of psychic and spiritual development, or that point from

>

>> which begins the cycle of adeptship, by that day - those will

>

>> advance no further than the knowledge already acquired. No Master

>

>> of Wisdom from the East will appear or send any one to Europe or

>

>> America after that period, and the sluggards will have to renounce

>

>> every chance

>

>> of advancement in their present incarnation - until the year 1975.

>

>> Such is the LAW, for we are in Kali Yuga - the Black Age - and the

>

>> restrictions in this cycle, the first 5,000 years of which will

>

>> expire in 1897, are great and almost insuperable. " HPB's Collected

>

>> Writings, Vol XII, pp. 491-492. Italics added.

>

>>

>

>> The second passage is as follows:

>

>>

>

>> ". . .during the last quarter of every hundred years an attempt is

>

>> made by those 'Masters' . . . to help on the spiritual progress of

>

>> Humanity in a marked and definite way. Towards the close of each

>

>> century you will invariably find that an outpouring or upheaval of

>

>> spirituality - or call it mysticism if you prefer - has taken

>

>> place. Some one or more persons have appeared in the world as their

>

>> agents, and a greater or less amount of occult knowledge and

>

>> teaching has been given out . . . . .If the present attempt, in the

>

>> form of our Society, succeeds better than its predecessors have

>

>> done, then it will be in existence as an organized, living and

>

>> healthy body when the time comes for the effort of the XXth

>

>> century. The general condition of men's minds and hearts will have

>

>> been improved and purified by the spread of its teachings . . . .

>

>> but besides a large

>

>> and accessible literature ready to men's hands, the next impulse

>

>> will find a numerous and united body of people ready to welcome the

>

>> new torch-bearer of Truth. He will find the minds of men prepared

>

>> for his message, a language ready for him in which to clothe the

>

>> new truths he brings, an organization awaiting his arrival . . . ."

>

>> The Key to Theosophy, pp. 306-7. Italics added.

>

>>

>

>> The three passages taken together indicate that HPB was referring

>

>> to an emissary of the Masters coming in 1975 or later. These

>

>> statements by HPB would seem to rule out the messenger being Alice

>

>> Bailey or many other claimants. For a list of such claimants, see:

>

>>

>

>> http://blavatskyarc hives.com/ latermessengers. htm#six

>

>>

>

>> Daniel

>

>> http://hpb.cc

>

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