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Re: Theos-World K the Messiah claims Adyar

May 18, 2009 07:57 AM
by Drpsionic


No, it is like when the Buddha encountered the man who said that after many 
 years of austerities he could walk on water and the Buddha told him that 
he was  foolish as the ferryman would have taken him across the river for a 
few  pennies.
 
Chuck the Heretic
 
 
In a message dated 5/18/2009 4:48:38 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
silva_cass@yahoo.com writes:

 
 


that's  cheating!
Cass

________________________________
From:  "_Drpsionic@aol.Drp_ (mailto:Drpsionic@aol.com) " 
<_Drpsionic@aol.Drp_ (mailto:Drpsionic@aol.com) >
To: _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) 
Sent:  Monday, 18 May, 2009 3:07:51 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World K the Messiah  claims Adyar

Oh that is easy. But first one must have bridge  built.

Chuck the Heretic

In a message dated 5/17/2009 8:46:14  P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
silva_cass@yahoo. com writes:

Only if  he promises to walk across the Bay of Bengal!!!!  lol

Cass

____________ _________ _________ __
From: MKR  <_mkr777@gmail. mkr_ (mailto:mkr777@_mkr777@gmai>
To:  _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos-To:  _theos-talk@ yahoog
Sent: Saturday, 16 May, 2009 3:39:12 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World K the  Messiah claims Adyar

Airfares to India is going down and there are  direct flights to Chennai. 
Let
us all go and take advantage of the  overshadowing! !!

mkr

On 5/15/09, Drpsionic@aol. com  <Drpsionic@aol. com> wrote:
>
>
>
> I think it  will be the next GC meeting. That should be fun.
>
> Chuck the  Heretic
>
>
> In a message dated 5/15/2009 6:13:14 P.M.  Central Daylight Time,
> silva_cass@yahoo. com <silva_cass%  40yahoo.com> writes:
>
> OK, OK, when and where is your next  overshadowing being held!! lol
>
> Cass
>
>  ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: "_Drpsionic@ From:  "_<_Drpsionic% 40aol.Drp> _ (mailto:
> Drpsionic@aol. com  <Drpsionic%40aol. com>) "
> <_Drpsionic@ _Drpsioni<  _Drpsionic% 40aol.Drp> _ (mailto:Drpsionic@ _ 
(<Drpsionic%  Drpsionic% >)
> >
> To: _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_  (mailto:theos- To: _theos-talk@ 
yah<theos-theos- <WBR>talk%  40yahoogrou> )
>
> Sent: Thursday, 14 May, 2009 2:26:12  PM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World K the Messiah claims Adyar
>
>  No, I passed. The World Teacher begins his work after the 75 year and  I
> joined the TS in 1978.
>
> Chuck the  Heretic
>
> In a message dated 5/13/2009 7:19:29 P.M. Central  Daylight Time,
> silva_cass@yahoo. com writes:
>
> Then you  failed the world teacher test!
>
> Cass
>
>  ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: "_Drpsionic@ From:  "_Drpsionic@ <WBR>aFrom: "_Drps
> <_Drpsionic@ _Drpsionic@  <WBR>aol. Drp_ (m_Drpsionic>
> To: _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos-  t_ (mailto:theos- To: _theos-talk@ yahoog
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 May,  2009 2:39:13 PM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World K the Messiah claims  Adyar
>
> 1949
>
> Chuck the Heretic
>
>  In a message dated 5/12/2009 6:24:59 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
>  silva_cass@yahoo. com writes:
>
> What year were you born????? No  falsifying the dates now!!
> Cass
>
> ____________ _________  _________ __
> From: "_Drpsionic@ From: "_Drpsionic@ <WBR>aFrom:  "_Drps
> <_Drpsionic@ _Drpsionic@ <WBR>aol. Drp_  (m_Drpsionic>
> To: _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos- To:  _theos-talk@ yahoog
> Sent: Tuesday, 12 May, 2009 2:37:23 PM
>  Subject: Re: Theos-World K the Messiah claims Adyar
>
> Actually  all us World Teachers have been inveterate pranksters come to
>  give
> the world laughing gas for the soul.
>
> Chuck the  Heretic
>
> In a message dated 5/11/2009 10:47:26 P.M. Central  Daylight Time,
> silva_cass@yahoo. com writes:
>
> lol. I  don't expect they would all be world saviours - just messengers
>  Cass
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From:  "_Augoeides- 222@Augoeides- 2_ (mailto:Augoeides- From:  
"_Augoeides-
>
>
> 2
> <_Augoeides-  222@Augoeides- 2_ (mailto:Augoeides- _Augoeides- 222@Au>
> To:  _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos- To: _theos-talk@ ya
>  Sent: Tuesday, 12 May, 2009 1:02:21 PM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World K the  Messiah claims Adyar
>
> Cass,
> If a "world teacher" came  at the end of every century in the form
> characterized we would have  had 20 more Jesus's all lined up in serial
> order as
> "World  Saviors" a label that I think did have some existance for a while
>  during Besant - Leadbeater era. I never have seen any such thing in my
>  coursing
> of histirical records. Who has the list?
>
>  Regards,
> John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cass  Silva" <silva_cass@ silva_cass>
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro  ups.com
> Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 5:52:11 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada  Pacific
> Subject: Re: Theos-World K the Messiah claims  Adyar
>
> As you say K did not repudiate the WT project what  he
> repudiated was his part in the project. I am not surprised that  JK
> initially thought of himself as the new World Teacher operating out  of
> Adyar - if
> he had run with that idea he would have been  glorified and sanctified by
> theosophists - I admire and respect him  for walking away and believe that
> his
> conscience
> would  not allow him to take on a role he knew he was not fated for.
>
>  If we are to rely on what Blavatsky gave us on a coming teacher we  must
> also rely on her timeline.
>
> One could say that  both Besant and Leadbeater would have been aware of
> this timeline yet  still pre-empted the 'prophesy' of HPB. Blavatsky
> underlined
>  her timeframe by stating that at the END OF EVERY CENTURY there will
>  come......
>
> One could argue then that Krishnamurti was their  choice (AB/CWL)for next
> world teacher and not necessarily the man  predestined to take on this
> role.
>
> Blavatsky also  pointed out that IF the theosophical society survived it
> would be the  vehicle for the next
> world teacher.
>
> Besant's comment  "Which of us is right only time can show." (12) came 
back
> to haunt  her!
>
> From a dugpa's point of view what better way to fragment  the TS than by
> introducing a 10 year old vagrant to the idea that he  was born to be the
> next
> world teacher. Did they realise that  that they and Leadbeater had picked
> the wrong candidate or was he the  perfect candidate for a means to
> disenfranchise the TS? They succeeded  - the TS is no longer the fortress
> of truth as
> it was in 1800  -but has disintegrated into a mish mash of psuedo 
religious
> and  psuedo theosophical ideas.
>
> One must assume that if a world  teacher comes at the end of every century
> - that he is now alive  and
> kicking - and one can assume also that the TS has failed as he is  not
> represented as a theosophist.
>
> Cheers  Cass
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: Govert  Schuller < schuller@alpheus. org >
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro  ups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, 12 May, 2009 2:04:14 AM
> Subject:  Theos-World K the Messiah claims Adyar
>
> Dear  Cass,
>
> I have to challenge the idea that K really repudiated  the WT project.
>
> He did not. He gave it his own  interpretation.
>
> There might be satisfaction for  anti-neo-theosophic al Blavatskyites in
> the idea that K completely  repudiated the AB-CWL additions/changes/
> manglings
> to the  original Theosophical program. They think that K's criticisms are
> an  additional vindication for their own anti-neo-theosophic al  position.
>
> I say, not so fast, for K truly believed that he  fulfilled the project
> even to the point of laying claim on Adyar and  the TS as the intended
> instruments for the coming  teacher.
>
> K said: "Mrs.Besant intended the land at Adyar to be  meant for the
> teaching. The Theosophical Society has failed, the  original purpose is
> destroyed."
>
> I analyzed the  statement in my paper on K, tying it back to HPB's 
prophecy
> of the  'torch-bearer of Truth.' (full analysis below)
>
>  Govert
>
> =====
> Reinforcing this view is an interesting,  and at first sight puzzling,
> remark Krishnamurti made about Annie  Besant and the Theosophical Society
> during
> an equally  interesting conversation in 1979 with his friends, Radha
> Burnier and  Pupul Jayakar, while discussing Burnier's possible candidacy
> for  the
> presidency of the Theosophical Society. "Mrs.Besant intended the  land at
> Adyar [the T.S. international headquarters] to be meant for  the teaching.
> The
> Theosophical Society has failed, the  original purpose is destroyed." (9)
> This remark contains many  assumptions and finds its proper context in
> Besant's understanding of  the mission of the Theosophical Society and the
> role of
>  Krishnamurti therein. Annie Besant thought she was fulfilling a mission  
of
> the Theosophical Society, which was not stated as one of its  official
> objectives, but was given to it by Helena P. Blavatsky--one  of the
> founders of
> the Theosophical Society and the society's  main source of ideas--when
> she, at the close of her life, announced  the coming of a "torch-bearer of
> Truth" for the later part of the  twentieth century. The mission of the
> Theosophical Society, according  to Blavatsky, was to prepare the way for
> this
> "new leader" and  prepare "the minds of men....for his message." At his
> arrival the  Theosophical Society would be available to him to remove the
>  "merely
> mechanical, material obstacles and difficulties from his  path." 
Indicating
> the possibility of a glorious long-term goal of  this plan, she states 
that
> if "the Theosophical Society survives  and lives true to its
> mission...earth will be a heaven in the  twenty-first century." (10) When
> Besant was
> challenged about  her involvement in the Order of the Star and her 
speaking
>  of
> "the T.S. as being the Herald of the coming Teacher," (11) she  defended
> herself by referring explicitly to Blavatsky's view about the  future
> mission of
> the Theosophical Society: "My crime is that  I share it, and do what
> my poor powers permit in preparing the minds  of men for that coming."
> Besant wrote that the only difference between  herself and Blavatsky
> regarding
> the coming of "the next great  Teacher" was that "she put that event
> perhaps
> half a century  later than I do. Which of us is right only time can show."
>  (12)
>
> I think it is reasonable to state that the particulars of  Blavatsky's 
and
> Besant's views were picked up by Krishnamurti  during his formative years.
> He might even have read Blavatsky's  statement referred to above. If so,
> this
> might provide the  ground to put Krishnamurti' s remark in historical
> perspective, and to  explain the underlying structural similarity between
> his
>  remark and Blavatsky's vision. With this in mind a reconstructed  reading
> of
> Krishnamurti' s statement would result in the  following: "Mrs.Besant [and
> Blavatsky] intended [subscribed to the  view that] the land at Adyar [the
> Theosophical Society] to be meant  [to be available] for the teaching [for
> the
> teacher]. The  Theosophical Society has failed [did not to cooperate], the
> original  purpose [the mission of the Theosophical Society to herald and
>  aid
> the teacher] is destroyed [has not been fulfilled]." The point of  this
> digression is to show that implicit in this remark is the  self-perception
> of Krishnamurti as the teacher, who was expected and  did come, but found
> the Theosophical Society not  cooperative.
>
> =====
>
> ----- Original Message  -----
> From: Cass Silva
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>  Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 10:13 PM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Annie  Besant on Her Messiah: Was this Part of 
the
> Messiah  Craze?
>
> Quite right Govert, the TS was born in chaos and  continues on this same
> path. HPB told us that her mission was to bring  the ancient truths to the
> western world and to attempt to stem the  spiritual materialism 
promulgated
> by the
> roman church and  its offshoots.
>
> As this was addressed to a western audience, it  would require western
> spokespeople
> to transmit this knowledge  - once the knowledge was given it then 
appeared
> that
>  Sinnett and others thought they were more knowledgeable than their
>  teachers. I
> have heard that the more one learns the stronger the ego  becomes - and
> this is one
> of the challenges or tests of a  chela.
>
> HPB unlike Sinnett et al she took those teachings to  heart and never
> waivered or
> challenged what was given to her  by those she considered far more
> knowledgeable
> than herself on  both spiritual and social questions.
>
> Her dissention was mainly  against outsiders - but since her demise the
> dissention
> has  come from insiders - who, in my opinion, distorted the knowledge for
>  their
> own quodos to the point of making Annie Besant an incarnate  godhead.
>
> AB and CWL would have been familiar with the  teachings on Kali Yuga and
> would
> have known that Kalki Avatar  would not appear before a million or so 
years
> - so
> either  they promoted Krishnamurti as a minor avatar they had no reason to
>  claim
> a messiah state for him. As the master said, AB was blinded by  her own
> imagination
> and CWL was just the fellow to bring this  imaginative fairytale into
> reality. JK, himself,
> recognized  this as nonsense and left their mayavic dreams to its  
founders.
>
> I am not convinced that Krishnamurti was  overshadowed by Maitreya, but
> perhaps
> was overshadowed by his  own daimon.?
>
> Cass
>
> Cass
>
>  ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: Govert Schuller  <schuller@alpheus. org>
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>  Sent: Saturday, 9 May, 2009 12:14:38 AM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Annie  Besant on Her Messiah: Was this Part of 
the
> Messiah  Craze?
>
> Cass,
>
> You say the TS was already in a  state of confusion when taken over by AB 
&
>
>
> CWL  or because of them?
>
> The outcome of one's speculations about  the motives of AB & CWL for doing
> the WT project all depend on how  one would regard the project in the 
first
> place. If you don't  think it was genuine, then indeed you have to wonder
> why they were  doing it. If you think it was genuine, then a whole
> different
>  view of their motivations is possible.
>
> BTW, it could be argued  that the TS was from the beginning in a state of
> confusion and was  badgered by crisis after crisis.
>
> Govert
>
> -----  Original Message -----
> From: Cass Silva
> To:  theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 8:59 PM
>  Subject: Re: Theos-World Annie Besant on Her Messiah: Was this Part of  
the
> Messiah Craze?
>
> I disagree Govert, the TS was  in a state of confusion when taken over
> by Besant and Leadbeater, I  believe, they believed, that a World Teacher
> would bring the TS back  to stability and would increase membership.
> She was ready to leave the  TS and join Krishnamurti - what does that
> tell us?
>
> I  was amused by AB turning the world teacher into a'gentleman' with a
>  university education - by doing this she exposed him to a world and an
>  awareness of a world outside of Adyar. I don't think he liked the  suits
> as he got out of them as quickly as he could.  lol
>
> Cass
>
> ____________ _________ _________  __
> From: Govert Schuller <schuller@alpheus. org>
> To:  theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 May, 2009 1:07:59  AM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Annie Besant on Her Messiah: Was this Part  of 
the
> Messiah Craze?
>
> Daniel,
>
> The  WT project in my view was genuine, but had some 'messiah craze'
>  elements, inevitably so given the state of the human psyche. One of  the
> 'craze'
> elements was indeed the 'apostle affair,' which  neither CWL nor K 
believed
> in. It came from Arundale's 'crazed'  brain.
>
> To reason from a few 'craze' elements to the conclusion  that it was only
> 'craze' is as fallacious as reasoning from the belief  that the project 
was
> genuine and that therefore all elements were  genuine.
>
> HPB's thoughts on messiahship are helpfull to be  extremely cautious about
> such claims. CWL, AB and K lived up to it to  a certain extent. In the end
> it was K who failed and dragged the TS  into a state of confusion and 
shock
> it has not yet  overcome.
>
> Govert
>
> ----- Original Message  -----
> From: danielhcaldwell
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro  ups.com
> Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 11:21 AM
> Subject:  Theos-World Annie Besant on Her Messiah: Was this Part of the
> Messiah  Craze?
>
> Annie Besant on Her Messiah: Was this Part of the  Messiah Craze?
> ++++++++++++ +++++++++ +++++++++ +++++++++ +++++++++  +
>
> Annie Besant at her most eloquent best:
>
>  ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> "And  now I have to give you, by command of the King, His message,
> and some  of the messages of the Lord Maitreya and His great
> Brothers. . . what  I am saying, as to matter of announcement, is
> definitely at the  command of the King whom I serve.
>
> His taking possession of His  chosen vehicle . . . will be soon.
> Then He will choose, as before, His  twelve apostles . . . and their
> chief, the Lord Himself. He has  already chosen them, but I have only
> the command to mention seven who  have reached the stage of Arhatship...
>
> The first two, my  brother Charles Leadbeater and myself, . . . C.
> Jinarajadasa, . . .  George Arundale, Oscar Kollerstrom, . . . Rukmini
>  Arundale....
>
> I left out one and must leave out another.  Naturally, our
> Krishnaji [Jiddu Krishnamurti] was one, but he is to be  the vehicle
> of the Lord. And the other is one who is very dear to all  of us, as
> to the whole Brotherhood: Bishop James Wedgwood. He had  borne his
> crucifixion before the seal of Arhatship was set upon him by  his King.
> Those are the first seven of the twelve whom He has chosen,  with
> Himself as the thirteenth. 'Ye call me Master and Lord, and ye  do
> well, for so I am.'
> ------------ --------- ---------  --------- --------- --------- -
>
> Daniel
> ______http://hpb.cc__ (http://hpb.cc_/)  _ (_http://hpb.cc__ 
(http://hpb.cc_/)  /) _ (__http://hpb.cc__ (http://hpb.cc_/)  _ 
(_http://hpb.cc__ (http://hpb.cc_/)  /) /) _ (___http://hpb.cc__ 
(http://hpb.cc_/)  _ (_http://hpb.cc__ (http://hpb.cc_/)  /) _
>  (__http://hpb.cc__ (http://hpb.cc_/)  _ (_http://hpb.cc__ 
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(http://hpb.cc_/)  _ (_http://hpb.cc__ (http://hpb.cc_/)  /) /) _  (_
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(http://hpb.cc_/)  /)  _
> (__http://hpb.cc__ (http://hpb.cc_/)   _ (_http://hpb.cc__ 
(http://hpb.cc_/)  /) /)  /)
> /) (_____http://hpb.cc/_ (http://hpb.cc/)  _ (_http://hpb.cc/_ 
(http://hpb.cc/) ) _ (__http://hpb.cc/_ (http://hpb.cc/)  _ (ht
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> (__http://hpb.cc/_ (http://hpb.cc/)  _ (_http://hpb.cc/_ (http://hpb.cc/) 
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(_http://hpb.cc/_ (http://hpb.cc/) ) _ (__http://hpb.cc/_ (http://hpb.cc/)  
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(http://hpb.cc/) ) _ (__http://hpb.cc/_ (http://hpb.cc/)  _ (_http://hpb.cc/_ 
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]
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>  ************ **Recession- proof vacation ideas. Find free things to do  
in
> the U.S.
> (
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>  )
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]
>
> 
>

[Non-text portions of this message  have been removed]

Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your  choice. Enter 
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[Non-text portions of  this message have been removed]

************ **Recession- proof  vacation ideas. Find free things to do in 
the U.S. 
(_http://travel._ (http://travel./)   aol.com/travel- ideas/domestic/ 
national- tourism-week? ncid=emlcntustra  v00000002)

[Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]

Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter 
_now.http://us.now.http:/now.http:now.http://us.<Wnow.http://us.<Wnow.http://us.<Wnow.http:/
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ne/creativeholidays/*http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3
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[Non-text  portions of this message have been removed]





**************Recession-proof vacation ideas.  Find free things to do in 
the U.S. 
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-ideas/domestic/national-tourism-week?ncid=emlcntustrav00000002)


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