Re: Theos-World K the Messiah claims Adyar
May 18, 2009 07:57 AM
by Drpsionic
No, it is like when the Buddha encountered the man who said that after many
years of austerities he could walk on water and the Buddha told him that
he was foolish as the ferryman would have taken him across the river for a
few pennies.
Chuck the Heretic
In a message dated 5/18/2009 4:48:38 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
silva_cass@yahoo.com writes:
that's cheating!
Cass
________________________________
From: "_Drpsionic@aol.Drp_ (mailto:Drpsionic@aol.com) "
<_Drpsionic@aol.Drp_ (mailto:Drpsionic@aol.com) >
To: _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com)
Sent: Monday, 18 May, 2009 3:07:51 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World K the Messiah claims Adyar
Oh that is easy. But first one must have bridge built.
Chuck the Heretic
In a message dated 5/17/2009 8:46:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
silva_cass@yahoo. com writes:
Only if he promises to walk across the Bay of Bengal!!!! lol
Cass
____________ _________ _________ __
From: MKR <_mkr777@gmail. mkr_ (mailto:mkr777@_mkr777@gmai>
To: _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos-To: _theos-talk@ yahoog
Sent: Saturday, 16 May, 2009 3:39:12 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World K the Messiah claims Adyar
Airfares to India is going down and there are direct flights to Chennai.
Let
us all go and take advantage of the overshadowing! !!
mkr
On 5/15/09, Drpsionic@aol. com <Drpsionic@aol. com> wrote:
>
>
>
> I think it will be the next GC meeting. That should be fun.
>
> Chuck the Heretic
>
>
> In a message dated 5/15/2009 6:13:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> silva_cass@yahoo. com <silva_cass% 40yahoo.com> writes:
>
> OK, OK, when and where is your next overshadowing being held!! lol
>
> Cass
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: "_Drpsionic@ From: "_<_Drpsionic% 40aol.Drp> _ (mailto:
> Drpsionic@aol. com <Drpsionic%40aol. com>) "
> <_Drpsionic@ _Drpsioni< _Drpsionic% 40aol.Drp> _ (mailto:Drpsionic@ _
(<Drpsionic% Drpsionic% >)
> >
> To: _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos- To: _theos-talk@
yah<theos-theos- <WBR>talk% 40yahoogrou> )
>
> Sent: Thursday, 14 May, 2009 2:26:12 PM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World K the Messiah claims Adyar
>
> No, I passed. The World Teacher begins his work after the 75 year and I
> joined the TS in 1978.
>
> Chuck the Heretic
>
> In a message dated 5/13/2009 7:19:29 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> silva_cass@yahoo. com writes:
>
> Then you failed the world teacher test!
>
> Cass
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: "_Drpsionic@ From: "_Drpsionic@ <WBR>aFrom: "_Drps
> <_Drpsionic@ _Drpsionic@ <WBR>aol. Drp_ (m_Drpsionic>
> To: _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos- To: _theos-talk@ yahoog
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 May, 2009 2:39:13 PM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World K the Messiah claims Adyar
>
> 1949
>
> Chuck the Heretic
>
> In a message dated 5/12/2009 6:24:59 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> silva_cass@yahoo. com writes:
>
> What year were you born????? No falsifying the dates now!!
> Cass
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: "_Drpsionic@ From: "_Drpsionic@ <WBR>aFrom: "_Drps
> <_Drpsionic@ _Drpsionic@ <WBR>aol. Drp_ (m_Drpsionic>
> To: _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos- To: _theos-talk@ yahoog
> Sent: Tuesday, 12 May, 2009 2:37:23 PM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World K the Messiah claims Adyar
>
> Actually all us World Teachers have been inveterate pranksters come to
> give
> the world laughing gas for the soul.
>
> Chuck the Heretic
>
> In a message dated 5/11/2009 10:47:26 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> silva_cass@yahoo. com writes:
>
> lol. I don't expect they would all be world saviours - just messengers
> Cass
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: "_Augoeides- 222@Augoeides- 2_ (mailto:Augoeides- From:
"_Augoeides-
>
>
> 2
> <_Augoeides- 222@Augoeides- 2_ (mailto:Augoeides- _Augoeides- 222@Au>
> To: _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos- To: _theos-talk@ ya
> Sent: Tuesday, 12 May, 2009 1:02:21 PM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World K the Messiah claims Adyar
>
> Cass,
> If a "world teacher" came at the end of every century in the form
> characterized we would have had 20 more Jesus's all lined up in serial
> order as
> "World Saviors" a label that I think did have some existance for a while
> during Besant - Leadbeater era. I never have seen any such thing in my
> coursing
> of histirical records. Who has the list?
>
> Regards,
> John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cass Silva" <silva_cass@ silva_cass>
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 5:52:11 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: Theos-World K the Messiah claims Adyar
>
> As you say K did not repudiate the WT project what he
> repudiated was his part in the project. I am not surprised that JK
> initially thought of himself as the new World Teacher operating out of
> Adyar - if
> he had run with that idea he would have been glorified and sanctified by
> theosophists - I admire and respect him for walking away and believe that
> his
> conscience
> would not allow him to take on a role he knew he was not fated for.
>
> If we are to rely on what Blavatsky gave us on a coming teacher we must
> also rely on her timeline.
>
> One could say that both Besant and Leadbeater would have been aware of
> this timeline yet still pre-empted the 'prophesy' of HPB. Blavatsky
> underlined
> her timeframe by stating that at the END OF EVERY CENTURY there will
> come......
>
> One could argue then that Krishnamurti was their choice (AB/CWL)for next
> world teacher and not necessarily the man predestined to take on this
> role.
>
> Blavatsky also pointed out that IF the theosophical society survived it
> would be the vehicle for the next
> world teacher.
>
> Besant's comment "Which of us is right only time can show." (12) came
back
> to haunt her!
>
> From a dugpa's point of view what better way to fragment the TS than by
> introducing a 10 year old vagrant to the idea that he was born to be the
> next
> world teacher. Did they realise that that they and Leadbeater had picked
> the wrong candidate or was he the perfect candidate for a means to
> disenfranchise the TS? They succeeded - the TS is no longer the fortress
> of truth as
> it was in 1800 -but has disintegrated into a mish mash of psuedo
religious
> and psuedo theosophical ideas.
>
> One must assume that if a world teacher comes at the end of every century
> - that he is now alive and
> kicking - and one can assume also that the TS has failed as he is not
> represented as a theosophist.
>
> Cheers Cass
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: Govert Schuller < schuller@alpheus. org >
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, 12 May, 2009 2:04:14 AM
> Subject: Theos-World K the Messiah claims Adyar
>
> Dear Cass,
>
> I have to challenge the idea that K really repudiated the WT project.
>
> He did not. He gave it his own interpretation.
>
> There might be satisfaction for anti-neo-theosophic al Blavatskyites in
> the idea that K completely repudiated the AB-CWL additions/changes/
> manglings
> to the original Theosophical program. They think that K's criticisms are
> an additional vindication for their own anti-neo-theosophic al position.
>
> I say, not so fast, for K truly believed that he fulfilled the project
> even to the point of laying claim on Adyar and the TS as the intended
> instruments for the coming teacher.
>
> K said: "Mrs.Besant intended the land at Adyar to be meant for the
> teaching. The Theosophical Society has failed, the original purpose is
> destroyed."
>
> I analyzed the statement in my paper on K, tying it back to HPB's
prophecy
> of the 'torch-bearer of Truth.' (full analysis below)
>
> Govert
>
> =====
> Reinforcing this view is an interesting, and at first sight puzzling,
> remark Krishnamurti made about Annie Besant and the Theosophical Society
> during
> an equally interesting conversation in 1979 with his friends, Radha
> Burnier and Pupul Jayakar, while discussing Burnier's possible candidacy
> for the
> presidency of the Theosophical Society. "Mrs.Besant intended the land at
> Adyar [the T.S. international headquarters] to be meant for the teaching.
> The
> Theosophical Society has failed, the original purpose is destroyed." (9)
> This remark contains many assumptions and finds its proper context in
> Besant's understanding of the mission of the Theosophical Society and the
> role of
> Krishnamurti therein. Annie Besant thought she was fulfilling a mission
of
> the Theosophical Society, which was not stated as one of its official
> objectives, but was given to it by Helena P. Blavatsky--one of the
> founders of
> the Theosophical Society and the society's main source of ideas--when
> she, at the close of her life, announced the coming of a "torch-bearer of
> Truth" for the later part of the twentieth century. The mission of the
> Theosophical Society, according to Blavatsky, was to prepare the way for
> this
> "new leader" and prepare "the minds of men....for his message." At his
> arrival the Theosophical Society would be available to him to remove the
> "merely
> mechanical, material obstacles and difficulties from his path."
Indicating
> the possibility of a glorious long-term goal of this plan, she states
that
> if "the Theosophical Society survives and lives true to its
> mission...earth will be a heaven in the twenty-first century." (10) When
> Besant was
> challenged about her involvement in the Order of the Star and her
speaking
> of
> "the T.S. as being the Herald of the coming Teacher," (11) she defended
> herself by referring explicitly to Blavatsky's view about the future
> mission of
> the Theosophical Society: "My crime is that I share it, and do what
> my poor powers permit in preparing the minds of men for that coming."
> Besant wrote that the only difference between herself and Blavatsky
> regarding
> the coming of "the next great Teacher" was that "she put that event
> perhaps
> half a century later than I do. Which of us is right only time can show."
> (12)
>
> I think it is reasonable to state that the particulars of Blavatsky's
and
> Besant's views were picked up by Krishnamurti during his formative years.
> He might even have read Blavatsky's statement referred to above. If so,
> this
> might provide the ground to put Krishnamurti' s remark in historical
> perspective, and to explain the underlying structural similarity between
> his
> remark and Blavatsky's vision. With this in mind a reconstructed reading
> of
> Krishnamurti' s statement would result in the following: "Mrs.Besant [and
> Blavatsky] intended [subscribed to the view that] the land at Adyar [the
> Theosophical Society] to be meant [to be available] for the teaching [for
> the
> teacher]. The Theosophical Society has failed [did not to cooperate], the
> original purpose [the mission of the Theosophical Society to herald and
> aid
> the teacher] is destroyed [has not been fulfilled]." The point of this
> digression is to show that implicit in this remark is the self-perception
> of Krishnamurti as the teacher, who was expected and did come, but found
> the Theosophical Society not cooperative.
>
> =====
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Cass Silva
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 10:13 PM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Annie Besant on Her Messiah: Was this Part of
the
> Messiah Craze?
>
> Quite right Govert, the TS was born in chaos and continues on this same
> path. HPB told us that her mission was to bring the ancient truths to the
> western world and to attempt to stem the spiritual materialism
promulgated
> by the
> roman church and its offshoots.
>
> As this was addressed to a western audience, it would require western
> spokespeople
> to transmit this knowledge - once the knowledge was given it then
appeared
> that
> Sinnett and others thought they were more knowledgeable than their
> teachers. I
> have heard that the more one learns the stronger the ego becomes - and
> this is one
> of the challenges or tests of a chela.
>
> HPB unlike Sinnett et al she took those teachings to heart and never
> waivered or
> challenged what was given to her by those she considered far more
> knowledgeable
> than herself on both spiritual and social questions.
>
> Her dissention was mainly against outsiders - but since her demise the
> dissention
> has come from insiders - who, in my opinion, distorted the knowledge for
> their
> own quodos to the point of making Annie Besant an incarnate godhead.
>
> AB and CWL would have been familiar with the teachings on Kali Yuga and
> would
> have known that Kalki Avatar would not appear before a million or so
years
> - so
> either they promoted Krishnamurti as a minor avatar they had no reason to
> claim
> a messiah state for him. As the master said, AB was blinded by her own
> imagination
> and CWL was just the fellow to bring this imaginative fairytale into
> reality. JK, himself,
> recognized this as nonsense and left their mayavic dreams to its
founders.
>
> I am not convinced that Krishnamurti was overshadowed by Maitreya, but
> perhaps
> was overshadowed by his own daimon.?
>
> Cass
>
> Cass
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: Govert Schuller <schuller@alpheus. org>
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> Sent: Saturday, 9 May, 2009 12:14:38 AM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Annie Besant on Her Messiah: Was this Part of
the
> Messiah Craze?
>
> Cass,
>
> You say the TS was already in a state of confusion when taken over by AB
&
>
>
> CWL or because of them?
>
> The outcome of one's speculations about the motives of AB & CWL for doing
> the WT project all depend on how one would regard the project in the
first
> place. If you don't think it was genuine, then indeed you have to wonder
> why they were doing it. If you think it was genuine, then a whole
> different
> view of their motivations is possible.
>
> BTW, it could be argued that the TS was from the beginning in a state of
> confusion and was badgered by crisis after crisis.
>
> Govert
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Cass Silva
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 8:59 PM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Annie Besant on Her Messiah: Was this Part of
the
> Messiah Craze?
>
> I disagree Govert, the TS was in a state of confusion when taken over
> by Besant and Leadbeater, I believe, they believed, that a World Teacher
> would bring the TS back to stability and would increase membership.
> She was ready to leave the TS and join Krishnamurti - what does that
> tell us?
>
> I was amused by AB turning the world teacher into a'gentleman' with a
> university education - by doing this she exposed him to a world and an
> awareness of a world outside of Adyar. I don't think he liked the suits
> as he got out of them as quickly as he could. lol
>
> Cass
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: Govert Schuller <schuller@alpheus. org>
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 May, 2009 1:07:59 AM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Annie Besant on Her Messiah: Was this Part of
the
> Messiah Craze?
>
> Daniel,
>
> The WT project in my view was genuine, but had some 'messiah craze'
> elements, inevitably so given the state of the human psyche. One of the
> 'craze'
> elements was indeed the 'apostle affair,' which neither CWL nor K
believed
> in. It came from Arundale's 'crazed' brain.
>
> To reason from a few 'craze' elements to the conclusion that it was only
> 'craze' is as fallacious as reasoning from the belief that the project
was
> genuine and that therefore all elements were genuine.
>
> HPB's thoughts on messiahship are helpfull to be extremely cautious about
> such claims. CWL, AB and K lived up to it to a certain extent. In the end
> it was K who failed and dragged the TS into a state of confusion and
shock
> it has not yet overcome.
>
> Govert
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: danielhcaldwell
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 11:21 AM
> Subject: Theos-World Annie Besant on Her Messiah: Was this Part of the
> Messiah Craze?
>
> Annie Besant on Her Messiah: Was this Part of the Messiah Craze?
> ++++++++++++ +++++++++ +++++++++ +++++++++ +++++++++ +
>
> Annie Besant at her most eloquent best:
>
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> "And now I have to give you, by command of the King, His message,
> and some of the messages of the Lord Maitreya and His great
> Brothers. . . what I am saying, as to matter of announcement, is
> definitely at the command of the King whom I serve.
>
> His taking possession of His chosen vehicle . . . will be soon.
> Then He will choose, as before, His twelve apostles . . . and their
> chief, the Lord Himself. He has already chosen them, but I have only
> the command to mention seven who have reached the stage of Arhatship...
>
> The first two, my brother Charles Leadbeater and myself, . . . C.
> Jinarajadasa, . . . George Arundale, Oscar Kollerstrom, . . . Rukmini
> Arundale....
>
> I left out one and must leave out another. Naturally, our
> Krishnaji [Jiddu Krishnamurti] was one, but he is to be the vehicle
> of the Lord. And the other is one who is very dear to all of us, as
> to the whole Brotherhood: Bishop James Wedgwood. He had borne his
> crucifixion before the seal of Arhatship was set upon him by his King.
> Those are the first seven of the twelve whom He has chosen, with
> Himself as the thirteenth. 'Ye call me Master and Lord, and ye do
> well, for so I am.'
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
>
> Daniel
> ______http://hpb.cc__ (http://hpb.cc_/) _ (_http://hpb.cc__
(http://hpb.cc_/) /) _ (__http://hpb.cc__ (http://hpb.cc_/) _
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in
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************ **Recession- proof vacation ideas. Find free things to do in
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